LGF Pages: Sharing Enabled

Technology • Views: 6,216

Today’s new feature for LGF Pages: I’ve added support for the AddThis sharing widget to all Pages.

I was actually going to write my own version, because there are some things I’ve never liked about the AddThis widget (even though it’s been in use at LGF for years). But I checked their website recently and discovered that all of my criticisms had been addressed in the latest version of their API; their code is now asynchronous, unobtrusive, and doesn’t have to be kludged into the body of the page any more. And they’ve moved their service to Akamai, so performance issues should be significantly improved.

Here’s how the widget works: when you hover over the “Share” button, a menu pops up with a list of many popular “social web” and bookmarking sites, such as Twitter, Facebook, Digg, Reddit, Yahoo Buzz, etc. Click on one of these services and the AddThis widget opens a window to that service, and automatically fills in the URL and title of the post for you.

But wait! There’s more!

Another new feature — on each individual Page (by “individual Page” I mean the page where users can comment), a new section now shows five other recent Pages posted by the author, so you can check out his or her other work easily.

Jump to bottom

593 comments
1 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:21:23pm

Better and better.
Any patterns in the Pages traffic worth noting? I'm curious about the vast unregistered visitors awareness of the new pages.

2 S'latch  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:21:43pm

I have a problem with sharing.

3 Taqyia2Me  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:26:15pm

IMHO, Charles continues to define the State Of The Art.
Well done, Charles!

4 Van Helsing  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:26:16pm

John Finn, RIP MOH Recipient

5 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:27:13pm

This is so great. Thanks Charles!

6 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #3 Taqyia2Me

I am really glad to have subscribed. Just a few bucks a month, and we get features like this. Really nice.

7 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:28:21pm

I'm glad to see you're rolling these changes to the LGF pages out so slowly, Charles. It might be hard to keep up otherwise.
/

8 Altermite  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:29:20pm

Just heard from a friend in Israel that several nuclear submarines have recently been deployed off the coast of iran. Anyone else hear anything like this?

9 Guanxi88  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:30:49pm

re: #8 Altermite

Just heard from a friend in Israel that several nuclear submarines have recently been deployed off the coast of iran. Anyone else hear anything like this?

Yes, heard it on the morning news today. Diesel subs with cruise missile launch capacity.

10 Guanxi88  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:33:30pm

re: #9 Guanxi88

Yes, heard it on the morning news today. Diesel subs with cruise missile launch capacity.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

jerusalem post, citing Sunday Times.

According to the article the submarines are moving to the Persian Gulf in respone to the growing missile threat to Israel from Syria, Iran and Hizbullah.

Israeli submarines are known to periocially visit the area but this is the first report that they may be permanently stationed there.

The diesel powered submarines are Dolphin class and were built in Germany to Israeli specifications.

11 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:34:05pm

re: #8 Altermite

Just heard from a friend in Israel that several nuclear submarines have recently been deployed off the coast of iran. Anyone else hear anything like this?

Actually. they are nuclear weapons capable, not nuclear-powered. Israel's subs are German-made diesel-electric boats.

12 Mark Pennington  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:34:49pm

Thank you very much, Charles. I hope you know that we appreciate your generosity.

13 Guanxi88  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:35:29pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

Actually. they are nuclear weapons capable, not nuclear-powered. Israel's subs are German-made diesel-electric boats.

Sorta like my commuter car, eh? Fritz, the 84 Mercedes 300 diesel death snail.

14 Guanxi88  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:35:53pm

re: #12 beekiller

Thank you very much, Charles. I hope you know that we appreciate your generosity.

Ahh, did your check arrive? I'm still waiting for mine.

15 Mark Pennington  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:37:24pm

re: #14 Guanxi88

Ahh, did your check arrive? I'm still waiting for mine.

haha! :D

16 Taqyia2Me  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:37:32pm

re: #6 Rightwingconspirator

I am really glad to have subscribed. Just a few bucks a month, and we get features like this. Really nice.

Me too...subscribing here has been worth way more than the $, IMHO!

I just saw Shiplord Kriel's post of a video of VJ Day on Hawaii over in the pages/links and thought, through the tears, "Man, we are so fortunate to have this site." No where else on the web....

17 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:37:35pm

And speaking of code, how come nobody ever told me about this great site, where they're implementing almost the entire PHP function library in Javascript?

[Link: phpjs.org...]

This is some very useful code!

18 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:39:19pm

re: #10 Guanxi88

And the policy of Mutual Assured Destruction takes full hold between Iran and Israel.

19 Guanxi88  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:40:03pm

re: #18 Rightwingconspirator

And the policy of Mutual Assured Destruction takes full hold between Iran and Israel.

Huh! perhaps it will keep the peace between them, or at least keep hostilities to a low and "acceptable" level.

20 Cathypop  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:40:08pm

re: #4 Van Helsing

John Finn, RIP MOH Recipient


Another great man has passed on. Sad.

21 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:40:14pm

Heh...this is pretty funny...the "What the Fuck" Blanket.

Youtube Video
22 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:43:22pm

re: #17 Charles

Is that the kind of thing we can use in the pages or would that be hazardous to your system?

23 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:45:58pm

re: #19 Guanxi88

One might argue it's not MAD as Iran has no nukes.. But the conventional missile threat is still large. It's a modern day analog, but I would suspect far less stable than the Soviet/US/Red China phase.

24 Van Helsing  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:50:45pm

Interesting change in policy - NPT disclosure for Israel

25 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:55:54pm

re: #24 Van Helsing

Interesting change in policy - NPT disclosure for Israel

Sadly, I don't think Israel can rely on assurances from Barack Obama. He's too willing to take tyrants at their word, and far to committed to getting treaties signed to walk away if it became clear the tyrants weren't bargaining in good faith.

Note: This post contains no wingnut allegations, such as "Obama hates Israel". Great care was taken to only make arguments that can be supported.

26 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:59:10pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Well then; show me evidence of Obama being 'too willing to take tyrants at their word'.

27 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 2:59:18pm

I hate to fire and brimstone on someone's parade but, Iran will get nukes. Not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
/Cynical realist.

28 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

Nuclear nonproliferation is a joke, and has been for basicly ever.

Any country that really really wanted them and had (or was willing to get) the money, has gotten nukes, or is about to.

29 avanti  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:04:59pm

Interesting item:

"The Republican candidate for President Obama's old Senate seat has admitted to inaccurately claiming he received the U.S. Navy's Intelligence Officer of the Year award for his service during NATO's conflict with Serbia in the late 1990s.

Rep. Mark Kirk, a Navy reservist who was elected to Congress in 2001, acknowledged the error in his official biography after The Washington Post began looking into whether he had received the prestigious award, which is given by top Navy officials to a single individual annually. "

link...

30 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:05:17pm

re: #26 windsagio

Well then; show me evidence of Obama being 'too willing to take tyrants at their word'.

The way he sends diplomats to Syria to to try to reach agreements with Basheer Assad. Assad has lied to us many times and only a someone who was naive would think he can be trusted. Also at issue is the way Obama keeps ignoring the Palestinians' perfidy, never demanding anything of them while demanding Israel offer things to get them to meet.

31 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:05:23pm

re: #28 windsagio

Some nations are leaving themselves out of the nuclear weapons game that have the radio-actives, the engineering and a real thread from a neighbor.

32 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:06:43pm

re: #29 avanti

Interesting item:

"The Republican candidate for President Obama's old Senate seat has admitted to inaccurately claiming he received the U.S. Navy's Intelligence Officer of the Year award for his service during NATO's conflict with Serbia in the late 1990s.

Rep. Mark Kirk, a Navy reservist who was elected to Congress in 2001, acknowledged the error in his official biography after The Washington Post began looking into whether he had received the prestigious award, which is given by top Navy officials to a single individual annually. "

link...

I read that. I don't think it'll hurt him in the long run. The failure of his opponent's family bank is a much bigger failure, and Kirk didn't try to deny when asked. He'll walk away from this.

33 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:07:01pm

OMNIBUS POST!

re: #29 avanti

Think he'd learn after the last guy.

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

"Proof" not "assertions" please >> Show the hows and whens ;)

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

They're "Choosing". The will is an important part of it. If it were worth the resources and political harm to their governments, they'd get them.

34 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:10:59pm
And they’ve moved their service to Akamai, so performance issues should be significantly improved.


Daniel Lewin, founder of Akamai technologies, was murdered on Sept 11 2001 aboard one of the hijacked planes. The initial report was that he had been shot.

Lewin was a veteran of the Israeli special forces, so it is possible that the hijackers may have needed more than box cutters to deal with him. It is also a reasonable speculation that he realized what was afoot before others and decided to fight. Win or lose, and in his case, lose.

Lewin's company Akamai was one of the sponsors of the 2000 International Mathematical Olympiad, held in Washington, D.C. It is a tribute to the quality of his leadership that the company continues to be a major player in its sector.

A lot of good men and women died that day. He lead in that, too. Shai Dorsai.

35 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:12:46pm

re: #34 lostlakehiker

Wait they magically knew he was ex-special forces?

Those terrorists were way more awesome than I thought!

36 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:13:11pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

DF, I was really wondering how you would react to this though, as you pretty much came down on Blumenthal, and anyone who would alter their service record.

Geeze, I don't want to call you out really, but I posted this in the links totally wondering what your take on it would be.

I see it as a weak and lack of self-esteem, those who embellish their successes. But really, I am not hard core on excluding them from any future political work because of it. Noting that both of these cases were a bit minor, not like fake medals etc. And, caveat, I think Kerry was smeared.

37 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:13:35pm

re: #33 windsagio

Well sure. Given the advance of alternative energy, engineering, computing power... yes proliferation will be a choice-the wise one we can hope. It's also life or death for millions. Unlike AGW not in decades but mere hours.

38 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:16:13pm

re: #26 windsagio

Well then; show me evidence of Obama being 'too willing to take tyrants at their word'.

Well, he did trust Chris Wallace to ask intelligent questions.

39 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:19:05pm

But wait!
There's more!

We get a Snuggie?

OK OK, no Snuggie with the cookbook either, but it's a great way to help support LGF and all the great features here, for a mere pittance!

Still plenty of time to order a copy of either or both Volumes, folks!
And they will be collector's items in just a few years!

40 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:20:17pm

re: #36 Stanley Sea

DF, I was really wondering how you would react to this though, as you pretty much came down on Blumenthal, and anyone who would alter their service record.

Geeze, I don't want to call you out really, but I posted this in the links totally wondering what your take on it would be.

I see it as a weak and lack of self-esteem, those who embellish their successes. But really, I am not hard core on excluding them from any future political work because of it. Noting that both of these cases were a bit minor, not like fake medals etc. And, caveat, I think Kerry was smeared.

I need to say that I'm far from objective where Mark Kirk is concerned: I've voted for him twice and given him money more times than that. I'll be giving him more money later this year. So while I am disappointed with him over this, it does not alter my intentions at all. I've already decided that he's the better of the two candidates for Senate in Illinois this year, and nothing short of a criminal indictment will make me rethink that.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:20:38pm

My BIL was just deployed to Iraq. Again. I'm pretty sure that he has now officially spent more time overseas in the service than all three of my grandfathers combined did in WWII.

42 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:20:49pm

re: #37 Rightwingconspirator

On a sidenote, which country are you referring to? I'm trying to figure it out but can't.

43 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:21:29pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

"Live man or a dead woman" eh?

/no insult intended, I just love that bit of political humor :D

44 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:21:57pm

re: #39 reine.de.tout

But wait!
There's more!

We get a Snuggie?

OK OK, no Snuggie with the cookbook either, but it's a great way to help support LGF and all the great features here, for a mere pittance!

Still plenty of time to order a copy of either or both Volumes, folks!
And they will be collector's items in just a few years!

OK, I'm going to call it out. Wind, did you buy one yet?

45 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:22:43pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

I need to say that I'm far from objective where Mark Kirk is concerned: I've voted for him twice and given him money more times than that. I'll be giving him more money later this year. So while I am disappointed with him over this, it does not alter my intentions at all. I've already decided that he's the better of the two candidates for Senate in Illinois this year, and nothing short of a criminal indictment will make me rethink that.

That was an excellent and true response. I really respect it.

46 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:23:23pm

re: #44 Stanley Sea

Damn you >

To my shame I really can't budget for that right now. Stupid trip to vegas that I planned last year.

Sorry :(

47 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:25:33pm

re: #43 windsagio

"Live man or a dead woman" eh?

/no insult intended, I just love that bit of political humor :D

No, if he were indicted for embezzlement or some other serious crime that would cause a rethink. But so far, what he's done wrong is far less severe than his opponent's failed bank and its sleazy associations.

48 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:25:37pm

re: #46 windsagio

Sorry. Save up. $20. (actually less) and I'm named in it!! One of the proofreaders.

Reine, I actually missed the first pages, I was going straight to the recipes and artwork, so I was smiling when I finally saw that. :)

49 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:26:31pm

re: #48 Stanley Sea

I'll get around to it, no worries :p

Maybe give it to WUB as a gift >>

50 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:27:25pm

re: #49 windsagio

problem is I would NEVER use it, so I'd be buying one just for peer pressure and to give people money.

not that that isn't enough ;)

51 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:27:30pm

re: #49 windsagio

OT, I think I solved a little mystery here. When you spellcheck your poor name has an option to replace with "windbag" I think Cato goes for the replace choice.

52 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:28:17pm

re: #51 Stanley Sea

Hah, damn.

Had that name since I was 13. I'll have to live with the slings and arrows.

53 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:29:15pm

And now, for the most presumptuous review of the ending of Lost ever!


[Link: www.willwilkinson.net...]

I appreciate Tyler’s charitable interpretation of the finale, but as a Wittgensteinian combinatorialist about modality and a Kripkean about the necessity of individual origins, I reject the show not only as incoherent but heretical. First, some quibbles. There is only one actual Leibnizian world: the best one, the one into which God breathes the breath of being. Tyler’s interpretation, in which each of multiple universes is actually realized, is more Lewisian than Leibnizian in spirit.

It goes on, but this is quite enough to establish my claim. Try to top that!

54 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:30:05pm

re: #50 windsagio

problem is I would NEVER use it, so I'd be buying one just for peer pressure and to give people money.

not that that isn't enough ;)

For me, cooking is bliss. Creating, and quiet time. I learned from cookbooks too. Hopefully one day it will come your way.

55 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:30:55pm

re: #42 windsagio

Japan for one easy one. And Hiroshima fades into the distant past in the face of North Korean nuclear tests and threats.

South Africa gave them up. Real operational weapons.

56 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:31:45pm

re: #55 Rightwingconspirator

I knew the latter.

I thought Japan had nuclear for power... I can understand them having some philosophical issues with nuclear weapons tho >>

57 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:32:10pm

I want a chance to use this on here some day:

Youtube Video
58 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:38:51pm

re: #56 windsagio

Agreeing with you here as it seems no one will attack a nation for testing, let alone building them.
More nations could build them if they chose to. Speculating here of course-In twenty years 50 nations will have the ability. In 100 years the capacity will exist at corporate levels. Bechtel? GE? I speak in technical terms here, the sheer engineering capacity. Access to material of course becomes the real turning point. High technology spreads apace.

I also speculate that high energy research will uncover more ways to spread havoc. So in the long term it's always about choice.

59 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:39:15pm

BBIAB

60 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:44:37pm

re: #56 windsagio

I knew the latter.

I thought Japan had nuclear for power... I can understand them having some philosophical issues with nuclear weapons tho >>

I think the US gets far too little credit for SALT treaties and reducing our warheads. Soon we can maintain a strategic defense without nukes. The US may well be able to lead the way there someday among the superpowers.

61 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:46:05pm

re: #35 windsagio

Wait they magically knew he was ex-special forces?

Those terrorists were way more awesome than I thought!

This is all speculation, but wouldn't they have brought guns if they could? Why take chances? You never know who will be on a plane. Air marshals, veterans, athletes? And if he'd been knifed, why did the first report read that he'd been shot? As to them knowing about him, no. But once the fight was on, they'd have known he was not easy meat.

It is also possible that `killed' morphed into `shot' as the word of the event passed from ear to ear.

62 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:46:25pm

BBQ time gotta go.

63 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:47:32pm

re: #58 Rightwingconspirator


More nations could build them if they chose to. Speculating here of course-In twenty years 50 nations will have the ability. In 100 years the capacity will exist at corporate levels. Bechtel? GE? I speak in technical terms here, the sheer engineering capacity. Access to material of course becomes the real turning point. High technology spreads apace.

I also speculate that high energy research will uncover more ways to spread havoc. So in the long term it's always about choice.

I like this post, and then I add: ARIZONA? heh

64 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:50:16pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Sadly, I don't think Israel can rely on assurances from Barack Obama. He's too willing to take tyrants at their word, and far to committed to getting treaties signed to walk away if it became clear the tyrants weren't bargaining in good faith.

Note: This post contains no wingnut allegations, such as "Obama hates Israel". Great care was taken to only make arguments that can be supported.

No, but it does contain the assertion that you can READ OBAMA'S MIND. The man's not stupid, he's not "taking tyrants at their word", he's got the best foreign policy braniacs in America working for him.

You just don't like his politics, which is a different thing.

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:51:31pm

re: #44 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm going to call it out. Wind, did you buy one yet?

I gotta do it!

I just realized both our names start with Wind

yes it took me that long

66 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:52:31pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

I gotta do it!

I just realized both our names start with Wind

yes it took me that long

Except you're WUB, and he's Windy.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:54:07pm

re: #38 darthstar

Well, he did trust Chris Wallace to ask intelligent questions.

Chris Wallace, the launderer of psycho wingnut talking points! You can see the pattern: some freakshow on Fox (often Beck) says something that wouldn't make sense to an ethr junkie, and then Chris Wallace picks it up and mainstreams it with the old "some people (Beck) say that blah blah blah OBAMA SOCIALISM"

68 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:54:25pm

re: #66 reine.de.tout

Except you're WUB, and he's Windy.

I know :D But still!

69 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:56:40pm

re: #64 WindUpBird

It occurs to me that any world leader who takes ANYONE on the world stage, anyone under the pressures of leading a country, fully at their word, is retarded. And yes, that means allies.

There's always realpolitik, there's always calculations, political maneuvers, there's always hidden motivations, hidden pressures, hidden interests.

70 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 3:58:32pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

I gotta do it!

I just realized both our names start with Wind

yes it took me that long

And I just realized a double whammy. tks

71 Digital Display  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:00:23pm

Hi My Dear Lizards!
Did you know we were like 1 degree away from running the hottest Indy 500 of all time? Yes..It was that hot today...It felt like I was in the patient waiting room at the 1st gate of Hell.. I'm smoked...I look like a bright red raccoon...
I scream every time I go to the bathroom and look in the mirror...

72 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:04:07pm

re: #71 HoosierHoops

..I look like a bright red raccoon...
I scream every time I go to the bathroom

Dude...you're supposed to put sunblock on that thing every 15 minutes.

73 Digital Display  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:10:34pm

re: #72 darthstar

Dude...you're supposed to put sunblock on that thing every 15 minutes.

I so messed up...I was already burned from Carb Day...I'm going to peel So bad..But really..It's spring in Indiana and normally mild.. I haven't bought any sun tan lotion yet...I'm a Freaking Idiot..
I look like a red raccoon cause of my sunglasses...
/I don't care..I have never once said I was ever smart here..Not once..And this is further proof

74 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:20:31pm

re: #71 HoosierHoops

Hi My Dear Lizards!
Did you know we were like 1 degree away from running the hottest Indy 500 of all time? Yes..It was that hot today...It felt like I was in the patient waiting room at the 1st gate of Hell.. I'm smoked...I look like a bright red raccoon...
I scream every time I go to the bathroom and look in the mirror...

Dario won again? woo!

75 Digital Display  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #74 Stanley Sea

Dario won again? woo!

Yup! ABC is replaying the entire race for Indy right now since we get blacked out.. It's the pre race show right now...

76 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:32:27pm

Memorial Day. Never forget. There is a very good piece on PBS right now - detailing the American cemeteries about the world.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:35:05pm

Hey! If you type in 'flotilla' in Google, you get all the Twitters about the Gaza flotilla!

uruknet‎: V @GazaFreedom :Atmosphere is back 2 calm;#flotilla is further west & Israeli ships are out of sight.May be pretext 4 what 2 expect 2morrow

ismpalestine‎: RT @zeelunat: Lubna on Turkish boat: “Vry few times in histry has a flotilla delivering humanitarian goods bn wlcmd by military war ships.”

muiz‎: RT @iRevolt: Reporter: Tomorrow morning we may be facing even bigger force from Israeli war-ships #Flotilla

eddieduggan‎: RT @chalkface2009: The despicable #IDF are surrounding Freedom #Flotilla, determined to deny Palestinian children from wheelchairs (cont ...
Twitter - 8 minutes ago

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:37:53pm

MelMan65‎: #flotilla feels like they are being criminalized by surrounding Isreal navy ships and they do not feel safe anylonger

79 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:38:10pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey! If you type in 'flotilla' in Google, you get all the Twitters about the Gaza flotilla!

uruknet‎: V @GazaFreedom :Atmosphere is back 2 calm;#flotilla is further west & Israeli ships are out of sight.May be pretext 4 what 2 expect 2morrow

ismpalestine‎: RT @zeelunat: Lubna on Turkish boat: “Vry few times in histry has a flotilla delivering humanitarian goods bn wlcmd by military war ships.”

muiz‎: RT @iRevolt: Reporter: Tomorrow morning we may be facing even bigger force from Israeli war-ships #Flotilla

eddieduggan‎: RT @chalkface2009: The despicable #IDF are surrounding Freedom #Flotilla, determined to deny Palestinian children from wheelchairs (cont ...
Twitter - 8 minutes ago

Does it make me a bad person to hope for a sudden squall to sink them so they can be rescued by evil Zionist warships?

80 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:38:45pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey! If you type in 'flotilla' in Google, you get all the Twitters about the Gaza flotilla!

uruknet‎: V @GazaFreedom :Atmosphere is back 2 calm;#flotilla is further west & Israeli ships are out of sight.May be pretext 4 what 2 expect 2morrow

ismpalestine‎: RT @zeelunat: Lubna on Turkish boat: “Vry few times in histry has a flotilla delivering humanitarian goods bn wlcmd by military war ships.”

muiz‎: RT @iRevolt: Reporter: Tomorrow morning we may be facing even bigger force from Israeli war-ships #Flotilla

eddieduggan‎: RT @chalkface2009: The despicable #IDF are surrounding Freedom #Flotilla, determined to deny Palestinian children from wheelchairs (cont ...
Twitter - 8 minutes ago

These people are terrorist cheerleaders, not "human rights activists." They were asked to deliver a humanitarian package to Gilad Shalit, and refused.

I don't give a shit if they all drown.

81 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:39:01pm

re: #79 Cato the Elder

Rhetorical question I know, but the Church frowns on wishing others misfortune ;)

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:39:21pm

re: #79 Cato the Elder

Does it make me a bad person to hope for a sudden squall to sink them so they can be rescued by evil Zionist warships?

No, but I'd still advise against. The guys on the evil Zionist warships have had to do enough already on this one, and if one accidentally drowned, he or she would be declared a martyr to the cause.

83 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:39:36pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

MelMan65‎: #flotilla feels like they are being criminalized by surrounding Isreal navy ships and they do not feel safe anylonger

Boo, fucking hoo. They want to feel safe, they shouldn't be supplying a bunch of terrorists.

84 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:40:54pm

re: #79 Cato the Elder

Does it make me a bad person to hope for a sudden squall to sink them so they can be rescued by evil Zionist warships?

No, not at all

LOL

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:41:00pm

Ribblesider‎: "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea" Gaza has tried all 3. The #flotilla must get through.

86 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:42:30pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:42:36pm

Ribblesider‎: Though the terror of the sea, gives to none security, in the ginnels of our boat, we keep the people's hopes afloat. #flotilla

88 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:43:40pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Ribblesider‎: "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea" Gaza has tried all 3. The #flotilla must get through.

Freaks. It great offends me the way they obsess over getting stuff to Hamas. They either don't care that much of what they are bringing will be used for murderous attacks or they think the attacks are a good thing.

89 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:44:07pm

re: #86 windsagio

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

Israel has never denied humanitarian aid. Ever. Not even while engaged in recent conflict.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:44:31pm

re: #86 windsagio

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

Humanitarian aid is being delivered daily. The 'blockade runners' in the past have brought less than Israel delivers in a week.

91 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:44:37pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Ribblesider‎: Though the terror of the sea, gives to none security, in the ginnels of our boat, we keep the people's hopes afloat. #flotilla

I fucking hate bad poetry.

re: #86 windsagio

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

You'd be surprised.

92 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:45:21pm

re: #89 The Shadow Do

I'm still catching up, so correct factual errors as they occur ;)

As the material element of this flotilla seems to be humanitarian aid, aren't they doing just that? At best it seems to be a horrible PR mistake (at least to me).

93 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:45:50pm

re: #91 Cato the Elder

Not a big fan of that phrase, or the idea behind it in that context.

94 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:46:06pm

re: #86 windsagio

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

The Israelis have stated that they would take the shipment and then send all non-contraband into Gaza. That satisfies the requirements in my eyes. Israel is not obliged to allow in things that can be used for war-making no matter the need.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:46:57pm

re: #92 windsagio

I'm still catching up, so correct factual errors as they occur ;)

As the material element of this flotilla seems to be humanitarian aid, aren't they doing just that? At best it seems to be a horrible PR mistake (at least to me).

No, the material element of this flotilla is propaganda. I'm not saying that I'd like to live in Gaza, but humanitarian aid goes in on a daily basis. This is NOT an attempt to get food to the starving.

96 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:47:25pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

Presuming the flotilla will fold, it'll be interesting to see what (if anything) is on those ships that Israel doesn't let into Gaza.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:48:20pm

re: #96 windsagio

Presuming the flotilla will fold, it'll be interesting to see what (if anything) is on those ships that Israel doesn't let into Gaza.

One previous blockade-running attempt brought school supplies, and a symbolic bag of cement.

98 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:48:44pm

re: #92 windsagio

I'm still catching up, so correct factual errors as they occur ;)

As the material element of this flotilla seems to be humanitarian aid, aren't they doing just that? At best it seems to be a horrible PR mistake (at least to me).

Concrete being bring in can be used for bunkers, steel or aluminum for rockets. Cell phones can be used as bomb triggers. Israel has the right to inspect the ship's cargoes to determine what dual-use things are on board.

99 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:49:07pm

Behold the logic of the self-hating Jew:

“We are on a humanitarian and solidarity action. We intend to continue it until we reach our goal and will not be stopped,” flotilla organizer Dror Feiler said.

Feiler, 68, a musician who lives in Stockholm and has renounced his Israeli citizenship, said he brought a saxophone with him and would greet Israeli sailors boarding his boat with music “from the time when Jews didn’t have armies and police to harass freedom fighters, when Jews were victims, and were standing at the forefront of the fight for the dignity of people.”

Nostalgia for victimhood. Jews should not have armies or police to defend themselves against those who would slaughter them. They should live at the mercy of the rest of the world.

*spit*

100 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:49:11pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

Lol Cement.

That'll show them!

The ME needs a ton less symbolism, on all sides.

101 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:49:40pm

re: #96 windsagio

Presuming the flotilla will fold, it'll be interesting to see what (if anything) is on those ships that Israel doesn't let into Gaza.

They may not have a choice. Israel can forcibly board the ships, if it comes to that.

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:50:15pm

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

They may not have a choice. Israel can forcibly board the ships, if it comes to that.

Israel's just gonna try to turn them back without issue.

103 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:51:14pm

re: #92 windsagio

I'm still catching up, so correct factual errors as they occur ;)

As the material element of this flotilla seems to be humanitarian aid, aren't they doing just that? At best it seems to be a horrible PR mistake (at least to me).

This little humanitarian flotilla has all the legitimacy of the Holy Land Foundation

104 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:51:30pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually boarding might have more of a negative effect on them than letting the crap through.

I suppose the flotilla people are counting on that tho'.

105 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:51:46pm

re: #103 The Shadow Do

Alot of emotion there, not much factage >>

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:52:27pm

re: #104 windsagio

Actually boarding might have more of a negative effect on them than letting the crap through.

I suppose the flotilla people are counting on that tho'.

They won't let them land. End of story.

107 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:52:35pm

re: #93 windsagio

Not a big fan of that phrase, or the idea behind it in that context.

Fuck Gaza.

They had the choice, after Israel voluntarily ended the "occupation". They chose Hamas and war, overwhelmingly so.

Give the people what they want.

108 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:53:45pm

re: #107 Cato the Elder

I'm sure all the 10 year olds agree with you. They totally picked terrorism!

There's logic to the blockade. This kind of hateful generalization is only harmful, tho'.

109 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:54:03pm

re: #104 windsagio

Actually boarding might have more of a negative effect on them than letting the crap through.

I suppose the flotilla people are counting on that tho'.

No, it wouldn't. The PR would be bad, but letting Hamas build bunkers and rockets would be worse than any PR problems.

110 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:54:47pm

re: #108 windsagio

I'm sure all the 10 year olds agree with you. They totally picked terrorism!

There's logic to the blockade. This kind of hateful generalization is only harmful, tho'.

They voted in Hamas, knowing Hamas vowed war. That is a vote for war in my book.

111 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:54:51pm

re: #108 windsagio

I'm sure all the 10 year olds agree with you. They totally picked terrorism!

There's logic to the blockade. This kind of hateful generalization is only harmful, tho'.

Yes, they did choose terrorism. That is "factage" for you.

112 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:55:12pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Rockets? I can agree letting rocket parts in would be pretty bad!

Bunkers just don't strike me as that terrible a threat, tho'.

Of course none of us are there right now, so...

113 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:55:26pm

re: #105 windsagio

Alot of emotion there, not much factage >>

Hamas and its enablers are a pariah. Fact, though you may disagree.

114 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:55:32pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

re: #111 Cato the Elder

The kids? C'mon guys!

115 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:56:58pm

re: #114 windsagio

re: #111 Cato the Elder

The kids? C'mon guys!

what kids are you talking about, the ones the Israelis are starving?

116 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:57:18pm

re: #114 windsagio

re: #111 Cato the Elder

The kids? C'mon guys!

It's all about the kids, right?

This flotilla is about enabling terrorism, and I wouldn't cry if it sank.

117 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:57:49pm

re: #112 windsagio

Rockets? I can agree letting rocket parts in would be pretty bad!

Bunkers just don't strike me as that terrible a threat, tho'.

Of course none of us are there right now, so...

Bunkers are threats because they are difficult to locate and give the enemy places to fire from concealment. They are fortifications and thus materials usable in building then are considered usable for military purposes.

118 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:57:59pm

re: #115 The Shadow Do

The ones that apparently voted in HAMAS.

Don't project something I didn't say here, as I've already acknowledged that a military blockade is justified.

119 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:58:40pm

re: #118 windsagio

The ones that apparently voted in HAMAS.

Don't project something I didn't say here, as I've already acknowledged that a military blockade is justified.

Now you are being silly.

120 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:58:45pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Its about crazy, hate-filled generalizations. The kids came up because they didn't really have any say in the direction Gaza went.

121 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:59:19pm

re: #119 The Shadow Do

I'm not the one proposing collective guilt here >>

122 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:59:42pm

re: #86 windsagio

Man I didn't know they were even blockaded.

To play devils advocate, whats the position on humanitarian aid to innocent people inside the blockade? They can't all be rabid Hamas members.

It's bullshit. It's a celebrity photo op. The eeville Zionists send more "humanitarian aid" in one week than this celebrity cruise brings over once a year, if they bring over anything. Last year's cruise was found to be mostly empty of useful cargo, in order to make room for more Hamas-groupie tourists.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:00:05pm

re: #114 windsagio

re: #111 Cato the Elder

The kids? C'mon guys!

Agreed. Now, search on "Israel humanitarian aid to Gaza".

124 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:00:22pm

re: #120 windsagio

Its about crazy, hate-filled generalizations. The kids came up because they didn't really have any say in the direction Gaza went.

So? Your point?

If you want to swallow Hamas-enabling propaganda for dinner, that's your choice.

125 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:00:24pm

re: #122 Alouette

>> yeah we hit that part already

(its a bad habit, I feel like its rude if I don't reply to everything, so sorry for being a bit spammy)

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:00:29pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

It's all about the kids, right?

This flotilla is about enabling terrorism, and I wouldn't cry if it sank.

And no children in Gaza would go to bed hungry BECAUSE it sank.

127 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:00:53pm

re: #114 windsagio

re: #111 Cato the Elder

The kids? C'mon guys!

The parents of the kids.

I would choose better for my own kids.

128 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:01:29pm

re: #120 windsagio

Its about crazy, hate-filled generalizations. The kids came up because they didn't really have any say in the direction Gaza went.

But their parents did (and do).

129 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:01:57pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure, again, I'm refocusing here that people here are trending towards a concept of collective guilt in Gaza, and that's unjust.

130 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:02:48pm

re: #127 reine.de.tout

re: #128 reine.de.tout

Doesn't mean its their fault, or that they should be punished!

Anyways, I'm being assured that there's plenty of humanitarian aid going in (and I have no reason to doubt it, thats just the way I talk)

131 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:03:44pm

re: #121 windsagio

I'm not the one proposing collective guilt here >>

You are, however, the one who trots out brown people and children to support your positions however. That is silly.

132 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:03:44pm

re: #130 windsagio

re: #128 reine.de.tout

Doesn't mean its their fault, or that they should be punished!

Anyways, I'm being assured that there's plenty of humanitarian aid going in (and I have no reason to doubt it, thats just the way I talk)

Who is being punished?

133 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:03:52pm

re: #120 windsagio

Its about crazy, hate-filled generalizations. The kids came up because they didn't really have any say in the direction Gaza went.

Sadly, they are not Israel's primary concern. Israel's main concern is defending itself. They'll not inflict suffering where they can avoid it, but beyond that all deprivation the kids suffer is due to their parents voting for war.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:04:02pm

re: #129 windsagio

Sure, again, I'm refocusing here that people here are trending towards a concept of collective guilt in Gaza, and that's unjust.

There are plenty of people in Gaza who didn't choose this situation, and don't deserve it. True in any conflict.

Now:

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

135 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:04:46pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

There are plenty of people in Gaza who didn't choose this situation, and don't deserve it. True in any conflict.

Now:

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

Bagua eated the flotilla!

/

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:04:54pm

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:05:47pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

Sorry, my cut-and-paste failed.

138 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:07pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

I am proud to say I have no idea what that means.

139 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:17pm

re: #129 windsagio

Sure, again, I'm refocusing here that people here are trending towards a concept of collective guilt in Gaza, and that's unjust.

When a people, collectively and as a group, vote for a particular outcome, then yes, there is collective guilt.

Not everyone, of course, voted for Hamas. But a majority did (can't find the exact numbers).

As indicated above however, Israel does not deny genuine humanitarian aid and in fact, provides it.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:36pm

justicentric‎: Zionists cant compete with us in social media cause it's social, not dependent on filthy rich individuals #Flotilla

141 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:41pm

re: #132 Alouette

I'm trying to put together a timeline of how we got from my first question to where we are now, but its a bit convoluted.

I guess it comes down to me getting the impression that people above are saying it's okay that people who had no say in Hamas taking over or the terrorism to be punished, and I object to that.

142 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:57pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, my cut-and-paste failed.

You still get a gold star!
Image: gold-star-2.jpg
You do give out stars, don't you???

143 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:06:59pm

I twittered across New Mexico for several hours today...what an awesome place...patriots everywhere, out and about before patriotism takes a fall

144 pingjockey  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:07:00pm

Afternoon all. Nat Geo has a thing about the science of 9/11 and the 'troofers'. Don't know if I'm going to watch or not.

145 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:07:17pm

re: #138 Cato the Elder

I am proud to say I have no idea what that means.

Yeah, no clue.

146 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:08:07pm

re: #141 windsagio

I'm trying to put together a timeline of how we got from my first question to where we are now, but its a bit convoluted.

I guess it comes down to me getting the impression that people above are saying it's okay that people who had no say in Hamas taking over or the terrorism to be punished, and I object to that.

No.
It's your assumption that people are being punished that's the issue.
No one is being punished.

147 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:08:49pm

re: #141 windsagio

I'm trying to put together a timeline of how we got from my first question to where we are now, but its a bit convoluted.

I guess it comes down to me getting the impression that people above are saying it's okay that people who had no say in Hamas taking over or the terrorism to be punished, and I object to that.

What about Germans who had no say in Hitler taking over? Or innocent Japanese who had no say in the Emperor taking over? Or helpless Russians and Chinese who had no say in the Communists taking over?

Sucked to be them.

148 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:09:00pm

Zoe the kitten seemed to be doing better so I thought I let her out of seclusion and in 30 seconds she attacked Matilda. The vet said it could take a couple days for the drugs to wear off.

149 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:09:09pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

TI3GIB‎: You sure Twitter trending is working ? I see Flotilla nowhere, yet my stream is rampant with it. Its not the people I follow, I promise.

The flotilla changed course. Apparently they're going to wait until daybreak.

It's 3 AM in Israel right now.

150 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:09:26pm

re: #139 reine.de.tout

I really feel that the concept should be applied lightly, if at all. It can lead to other kinds of crimes.

re: #146 reine.de.tout

We hit that up above tho Reine :)

151 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:13pm

Ugh, holiday weekend probably means fireworks at some point. Just what I need with freaked out cats.

152 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:26pm

are the Hamas apologists posting today?

153 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:31pm

re: #147 Alouette

I was waiting for the Nazis.

You should have mentioned the innocent people in the South when Sherman's army was a'marching through Georgia.

154 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:36pm

Is Cynthia "Crazy Eyes" McKinney on board this time?

155 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:37pm

re: #149 Gus 802

The flotilla changed course. Apparently they're going to wait until daybreak.

It's 3 AM in Israel right now.

You know, if you're gonna run a blockade at least use a Corellian corvette.
Amateurs.

156 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:41pm

re: #149 Gus 802

The flotilla changed course. Apparently they're going to wait until daybreak.

It's 3 AM in Israel right now.

Better lighting for all the cameras doncha know

157 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:55pm

re: #153 windsagio

I was waiting for the Nazis.

You should have mentioned the innocent people in the South when Sherman's army was a'marching through Georgia.

Sucked to be them too.

158 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:10:57pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Zoe the kitten seemed to be doing better so I thought I let her out of seclusion and in 30 seconds she attacked Matilda. The vet said it could take a couple days for the drugs to wear off.

Are your kitties okay?

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:11:25pm

re: #141 windsagio

I'm trying to put together a timeline of how we got from my first question to where we are now, but its a bit convoluted.

I guess it comes down to me getting the impression that people above are saying it's okay that people who had no say in Hamas taking over or the terrorism to be punished, and I object to that.

I follow you right up to the point where you say 'punished'. No one innocent is being 'punished', except in the sense that they live in a war zone, which is a tragedy.

Now, the fact is, these flotilla people are not going to the Congo to deliver food, despite the fact that children are in fact starving there. They have refused to turn over food or supplies to people who can bring them in. They are going to Gaza to make a propaganda display.

And as far as I'm concerned, they're funny as well as being allied with evil.

160 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:11:29pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Ugh, holiday weekend probably means fireworks at some point. Just what I need with freaked out cats.

they're cats...let em freak out
what else can you do?

161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:11:43pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

justicentric‎: Zionists cant compete with us in social media cause it's social, not dependent on filthy rich individuals #Flotilla

Stand issue Jew-Hate, not a surprise.

162 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:11:44pm

re: #141 windsagio

I'm trying to put together a timeline of how we got from my first question to where we are now, but its a bit convoluted.

I guess it comes down to me getting the impression that people above are saying it's okay that people who had no say in Hamas taking over or the terrorism to be punished, and I object to that.

That's part of the crux to those of us not knowledgeable of everything that has gone down the last 3 decades.

You guys must inform us without these blanket statements if you want us to really understand.

163 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:12:29pm

re: #156 The Shadow Do

Better lighting for all the cameras doncha know

That would be the reason.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:13:14pm

re: #157 Alouette

Sucked to be them too.


The IDF has a much tighter rein on its troops than Sherman kept on his.

165 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:13:30pm

re: #157 Alouette

It did!

I'm not actually sure that there was much collective punishment in 2 of your examples now that I think of it... Trying to apply it to China or the USSR is... well that's not what the word means.

It does apply to the south tho'. Of course that was for a military goal as well.

166 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:13:35pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Zoe the kitten seemed to be doing better so I thought I let her out of seclusion and in 30 seconds she attacked Matilda. The vet said it could take a couple days for the drugs to wear off.

At the hartz victims site you linked earlier, there were other stories indicating time was needed to get over the effects. I really do not understand why Hartz is allowed to sell this stuff. BTW - someone there said they called the number on the Hartz package, and got a claim number and reimbursement for the Vet bill.

167 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:13:54pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

You know, if you're gonna run a blockade at least use a Corellian corvette.
Amateurs.

Why would that work? You added the Devastator to my fleet two weeks ago.

/deep Star Wars geekage

168 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:14:05pm

re: #158 Varek Raith

Are your kitties okay?

They'll be ok but I gave them Hartz ear mite medicine and they had a very bad reaction to it. They went to the emergency room last night and will probably recover in a few days.

169 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:14:24pm

re: #165 windsagio

It did!

I'm not actually sure that there was much collective punishment in 2 of your examples now that I think of it... Trying to apply it to China or the USSR is... well that's not what the word means.

It does apply to the south tho'. Of course that was for a military goal as well.

War sucks.

War sucks more for the losers.

War sucks the most for the losers who don't surrender.

170 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:14:24pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

And thats where we have the misunderstanding.

I'm not saying anyone is being punished.

Thanks for being cool with me about this tho', especially the part where I was getting up to speed on the Flotilla thing :)

171 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:14:50pm

Story here:

Gaza flotilla changes course
By YAAKOV KATZ AND JPOST.COM STAFF
05/31/2010 02:39

Ships prefer confrontation with Israeli navy take place in daylight...

172 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:14:59pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout

BTW - someone there said they called the number on the Hartz package, and got a claim number and reimbursement for the Vet bill.


I might look into that after it's all over.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:15:11pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Stand issue Jew-Hate, not a surprise.

AH! BUT!!

JohnIshIshmael‎: GAZA FREEDOM FLOTILLA - Many activist Jews on board to defy the Jewish State's war crimes siege of Gaza.

174 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:15:13pm

re: #169 Alouette

That's not the phrase means!

175 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:15:29pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

They'll be ok but I gave them Hartz ear mite medicine and they had a very bad reaction to it. They went to the emergency room last night and will probably recover in a few days.

Sorry to hear that. Get well soon, kitties!

176 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:15:48pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

The IDF has a much tighter rein on its troops than Sherman kept on his.

Sherman initiated "hard war". Israel, not so much.

177 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:16:07pm

re: #139 reine.de.tout

When a people, collectively and as a group, vote for a particular outcome, then yes, there is collective guilt.responsibility (is closer to what I actually meant)

Not everyone, of course, voted for Hamas. But a majority did (can't find the exact numbers).

As indicated above however, Israel does not deny genuine humanitarian aid and in fact, provides it.

178 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:16:09pm

re: #153 windsagio

I was waiting for the Nazis.

You should have mentioned the innocent people in the South when Sherman's army was a'marching through Georgia.

Youtube Video
179 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:16:40pm

re: #162 Stanley Sea

That's part of the crux to those of us not knowledgeable of everything that has gone down the last 3 decades.

You guys must inform us without these blanket statements if you want us to really understand.

I will try, and please remind us when we don't. It's hard, because often when we hear similar questions they are not open to people who are open to learning what's going on.

But we will communicate! Yes, we will!!

:)

180 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:17:00pm

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

I almost actually linked that in the post but I thought it would be a distraction >>

181 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:17:11pm

All decent people agree:
The Jews should just let Hamas be.
There'd be peace here on earth,
and an end to all dearth,
And unicorns swimming the sea.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

182 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:17:31pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Why would that work? You added the Devastator to my fleet two weeks ago.

/deep Star Wars geekage

True. Though, I make a lot of credits when those fools buy replacement ships that you blasted. Nice little scheme, eh?

183 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:17:53pm

re: #181 Cato the Elder

All decent people agree:
The Jews should just let Hamas be.
There'd be peace here on earth,
and an end to all dearth,
And unicorns swimming the sea.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

Burn! Great one, Cato.

184 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:17:53pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I will try, and please remind us when we don't. It's hard, because often when we hear similar questions they are not open to people who are open to learning what's going on.

But we will communicate! Yes, we will!!

:)

And with that, kudos to Windsagio for being open to the conversation!

185 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:18:04pm

re: #174 windsagio

That's not the phrase means!

Neutrality of the article is disputed.

186 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:18:39pm

re: #182 Varek Raith

True. Though, I make a lot of credits when those fools buy replacement ships that you blasted. Nice little scheme, eh?

Yep. More money for us, more practice for our gun crews.

187 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:18:51pm

re: #184 reine.de.tout

Hey now, I make it interesting!

Without me, it would be a bunch of insults on those guys and then deadtime in the thread :D

188 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:19:26pm

From the Hot Air Green room: Deepest Horizon of Suspicion

Would President Barack H. Obama be moving more swiftly to put the full weight of the federal emergency system behind stopping and cleaning up the Gulf oil spill — if the region affected comprised liberal Democratic states? Could the president of the United States be that cold-blooded and vindictive against one particular part of the country, a region he particularly detests because of long-past racism and current conservative leanings?

As usual with liberals, when we allow our thoughts to pull us where the evidence seems to lead, we sound paranoid; we back away, embarassed at even thinking such a thing. Who could imagine such a vicious plot… it must just be a curious concatenation of coincidence.

Liberals routinely rely upon that natural tendency, hatching conspiracies so bizarre and brazen that nobody would ever believe them, from attempts to nationalize much of the Amerian economy to wild orgies with White House interns in the Oval Office (rather, the little room just off the Oval Office).
.....
There are five American Gulf states: Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. The first four voted against Barack Obama by a whopping average of 58-42; now Florida is clearly trending back Republican after its brief flirtation with radical “hope and change,” restoring the solid conservative, Republican South.
...
Is Obama merely a fool, or is he willfully dragging his feet because the primary victims of the disaster are by and large anti-Obama Republicans? Is this his way of punishing them for their apostasy against the One We Were Supposed to Have Been Waiting For?

Democrats might not like the implications of that question, but I say it demands an answer.

Intereseting that they completely fail to consider that if there were a conspiracy it would be the oil companies who hate Republicans by deliberately spilling oil in red states.

189 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:19:41pm

re: #184 reine.de.tout

Seriously tho' I try to be openminded on the subject, just coming from a different place... Especially since LGF (right or wrong) has a strongly set position on the issue :)

190 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:19:50pm

re: #187 windsagio

Hey now, I make it interesting!

Without me, it would be a bunch of insults on those guys and then deadtime in the thread :D

Not our fault they got a Down Periscope thing going on...

191 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:19:53pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

AH! BUT!!

JohnIshIshmael‎: GAZA FREEDOM FLOTILLA - Many activist Jews on board to defy the Jewish State's war crimes siege of Gaza.

This is where I'm confused. In it's basic sense, it appears to have gone the same route of right wing, center, left wing.

192 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:20:59pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

Not our fault they got a Down Periscope thing going on...

Speaking of periscope. I bet there's one right underneath this flotilla.

193 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:21:33pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I will try, and please remind us when we don't. It's hard, because often when we hear similar questions they are not open to people who are open to learning what's going on.

But we will communicate! Yes, we will!!

:)

Love ya SFZ. Sometimes when the heavy subjects come up I just wait patiently for your take.

194 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:21:38pm

re: #185 Alouette

And of course its disputed over the subject of whether there is collective punishment going on right now.

That's not my beef tho', my beef is that people seem to be advocating it. Thats different than it happening right now.

195 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:22:23pm

re: #193 Stanley Sea

Pff Everybody loves SFZ. She's one of the main pieces of glue that hold this rickety deathtrap together.

196 pingjockey  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:22:29pm

OMG! I hadn't seen this Nat Geo special about 9/11 and how Purdue Univ modeled the plane impact. Amazing.
re: #188 Killgore Trout

197 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:22:33pm

re: #189 windsagio

Seriously tho' I try to be openminded on the subject, just coming from a different place... Especially since LGF (right or wrong) has a strongly set position on the issue :)

I understand. I don't agree with on this, but you are arguing honestly and decently.

198 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:11pm

re: #181 Cato the Elder

All decent people agree:
The Jews should just let Hamas be.
There'd be peace here on earth,
and an end to all dearth,
And unicorns swimming the sea.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

Life is not an all or nothing.

199 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:16pm

re: #196 pingjockey

OMG! I hadn't seen this Nat Geo special about 9/11 and how Purdue Univ modeled the plane impact. Amazing.

I'll check it out.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:22pm

re: #165 windsagio

It did!

I'm not actually sure that there was much collective punishment in 2 of your examples now that I think of it... Trying to apply it to China or the USSR is... well that's not what the word means.

It does apply to the south tho'. Of course that was for a military goal as well.

Gaza is facing exactly the same kind of 'collective punishment' citizens of the Third Reich or wartime Japan did, though, albeit on a much smaller and more controlled scale.

Innocent citizens of these areas were put in jeopardy when the fighting carried into their cities, and many materials were in short supply because their government's opponents blocked supply lines.

However, there has been NO indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas, and the IDF has struggled mightily to keep down civilian casualties, something we didn't much bother with at Dresden or Hiroshima. Humanitarian aid is sent into the area routinely.

I would MUCH rather live in Gaza than in any other war or disaster zone in the world that occurs to me off the top of my head.

This doesn't mean that there aren't people there who have died, or whose lives completely suck, because of the conflict. But that does mean that my sympathy for Western 'activists' who act as though Israel a monster nation is real minimal.

201 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:24pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

Thanks DF, I really appreciate that. :D

(period BEFORE the emoticon, just to show my love to the grammarians!)

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:45pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

They'll be ok but I gave them Hartz ear mite medicine and they had a very bad reaction to it. They went to the emergency room last night and will probably recover in a few days.

Ahh. Poor little ones. Poor you.

203 pingjockey  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:23:48pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout
Try this again, that there is just nutbat talk!

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:24:02pm

re: #170 windsagio

And thats where we have the misunderstanding.

I'm not saying anyone is being punished.

Thanks for being cool with me about this tho', especially the part where I was getting up to speed on the Flotilla thing :)

No problem!

205 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:24:03pm

re: #194 windsagio

And of course its disputed over the subject of whether there is collective punishment going on right now.

That's not my beef tho', my beef is that people seem to be advocating it. Thats different than it happening right now.

if it were up to me Gaza would be swarming with Israeli troops, taking down Hamas, one asshole at a time...even if it takes forever

206 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:24:42pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

From the Hot Air Green room: Deepest Horizon of Suspicion

Intereseting that they completely fail to consider that if there were a conspiracy it would be the oil companies who hate Republicans by deliberately spilling oil in red states.

Absolutely!

There are a few things the feds have been slow on, but it's been a matter of the natural slowness of bureaucracy and miscommunication.

I will have an issue with the administration, however, if Obama doesn't lift this 6-month moratorium.

There is no reason for that to be in place. The other companies out there have operated for decades without an incident, and the people on those rigs were aware within a week after the blowout what had happened, and why, and which decisions led to it.

If that moratorium remains in place, it will cause even more economic devastation to Louisiana and Mississippi, which is where the majority of the oil field workers live. Neither Louisiana nor Mississippi can afford it.

207 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:25:20pm

re: #193 Stanley Sea

Love ya SFZ. Sometimes when the heavy subjects come up I just wait patiently for your take.

heh.
Always a good idea.
And on this one, SFZ will be well-informed, and fair.

208 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:25:21pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

Really well said.

Also different from (to paraphrase a lot) "Fuck them all, they're all guilty anyways!"

We can't help suffering in what's nearly a warzone. We also shouldn't intentionally inflict suffering on innocent parties. Sounds like the big I is doing their damndest to minimise suffering.

209 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:25:44pm

re: #195 windsagio

Pff Everybody loves SFZ. She's one of the main pieces of glue that hold this rickety deathtrap together.

After hearing about the bridal shower from hell, I will HEAP PRAISE on SFZ with absolutely no hesitancy.

210 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:26:42pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

Absolutely!

There are a few things the feds have been slow on, but it's been a matter of the natural slowness of bureaucracy and miscommunication.

I will have an issue with the administration, however, if Obama doesn't lift this 6-month moratorium.

There is no reason for that to be in place. The other companies out there have operated for decades without an incident, and the people on those rigs were aware within a week after the blowout what had happened, and why, and which decisions led to it.

If that moratorium remains in place, it will cause even more economic devastation to Louisiana and Mississippi, which is where the majority of the oil field workers live. Neither Louisiana nor Mississippi can afford it.

and in turn have to go to the feds for some sort of benefit...beholden to the feds....I'm very cynical

211 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:26:49pm

re: #198 Stanley Sea

Life is not an all or nothing.

It pretty much is if your neighbors have declared their desire to wipe you out and are acting on that pledge every day.

212 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:26:50pm

WARNING: I haven't checked this song for poltical slant yet, but its cool anyways :D

From my current favorite album on the subject:

Youtube Video
213 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:27:37pm

re: #211 Cato the Elder

Its really not. That's medievalist thinking... at best.

214 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:27:56pm

Crap!
I gotta go to the DMV to renew my ID...
Dammit, dammit, dammit!

215 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:28:03pm

re: #211 Cato the Elder

It pretty much is if your neighbors have declared their desire to wipe you out and are acting on that pledge every day.

Concur. For Israel the choice is stark: Win or die. There is no alternative.

216 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:28:09pm

re: #212 windsagio

song is on the subject, not the album. The songs are all reimagining of national anthems.

217 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:28:23pm

re: #213 windsagio

Its really not. That's medievalist thinking... at best.

read the Hamas charter...then get back with me

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:28:24pm

re: #207 reine.de.tout

heh.
Always a good idea.
And on this one, SFZ will be well-informed, and fair.

I do my best. I have a lot of anger toward the Western activists involved in this issue. I face off with them at protests, and I have this feeling they don't like me very much. Must have been something I said.

219 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:29:05pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Crap!
I gotta go to the DMV to renew my ID...
Dammit, dammit, dammit!

You'll have to wait till Tuesday. Sorry to hear that, Varek.

220 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:29:06pm

re: #217 albusteve

Catch up Steve-O, the whole point of what I'm talking about is that we can't treat them as a monolithic force.

221 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:29:28pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Drive carefully 'till then!

that kind of ticket sucks >>

222 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:29:37pm

Just came across this:

Aid to Palestinians
Ministry of Foreign Affairs - The State of Israel

All told, Gaza gets billions in aid. Some of which has to filter through the rampant corruption of the Palestinian state.

223 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:29:48pm

re: #220 windsagio

Catch up Steve-O, the whole point of what I'm talking about is that we can't treat them as a monolithic force.

why not?, that's the way they see themselves

224 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:30:45pm

re: #223 albusteve

if you wanna get me mad you're going to have to try alot harder ;)

225 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:31:08pm

re: #211 Cato the Elder

It pretty much is if your neighbors have declared their desire to wipe you out and are acting on that pledge every day.

OK, here I go. That to me seems like a broad brush. I'm thinking of the individuals involved.

It's a problem, with the people in power, yes I know. Again, I am here to learn.

226 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:31:34pm

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

You'll have to wait till Tuesday. Sorry to hear that, Varek.

I know!

re: #221 windsagio

Drive carefully 'till then!

that kind of ticket sucks >>

Good thing I don't drive. Or have a car. Still need an ID, though.

Youtube Video
227 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:32:00pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Crap!
I gotta go to the DMV to renew my ID...
Dammit, dammit, dammit!

It's closed tomorrow.

228 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:32:02pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Crap!
I gotta go to the DMV to renew my ID...
Dammit, dammit, dammit!

Ah, that's next week's problem.

229 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:32:21pm

re: #226 Varek Raith

Damn I remember that show. It was dumb but actually pretty funny.

Like "Dazed and Confused" meets giant robots.

230 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:32:46pm

re: #213 windsagio

Its really not. That's medievalist thinking... at best.

If the people next door swore to kill you and yours and made attempt after attempt to do it, you'd get medieval on their asses pretty damn quick.

231 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:34:16pm

re: #230 Cato the Elder

If the people next door swore to kill you and yours and made attempt after attempt to do it, you'd get medieval on their asses pretty damn quick.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

232 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:34:18pm

re: #230 Cato the Elder

If something over half of the people in the apartment complex next door wanted to have my car towed, I'd be able to see that not all of them did.

233 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:34:46pm

re: #224 windsagio

if you wanna get me mad you're going to have to try alot harder ;)

not much of a reply...Hamas is a terrorist threat to Israel...there is no reason to let Palis come and go as they please into Israel or anywhere else...they are continuously suspect for a reason...it's life and death and any fairy tale ideal otherwise is a dangerous notion, especially to Hamas....they are modern day crackpots

234 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:35:02pm

NatGeo just did a experiment showing how a jet fuel fire and soften steel enough to cause structural failure without the steel melting. Great stuff.

235 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:35:35pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

NatGeo just did a experiment showing how a jet fuel fire and soften steel enough to cause structural failure without the steel melting. Great stuff.

I saw that special. Good, it was.

236 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:35:39pm

re: #230 Cato the Elder

If the people next door swore to kill you and yours and made attempt after attempt to do it, you'd get medieval on their asses pretty damn quick.

such a childish point of view, gets people killed

237 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:35:47pm

re: #233 albusteve

And not every person in Gaza is a member of Hamas. Treating them like they are is sloppy thinking at the very least.

238 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:35:54pm

re: #232 windsagio

If something over half of the people in the apartment complex next door wanted to have my car towed, I'd be able to see that not all of them did.

Nice trivialization there.

239 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:36:42pm

re: #238 Cato the Elder

I was originally gonna say 'wanted to kill me', but the car issue is real. Also seemed like a way to lighten the mood some :D

240 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:37:01pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

NatGeo just did a experiment showing how a jet fuel fire and soften steel enough to cause structural failure without the steel melting. Great stuff.

No way. Some people are still unconvinced? Haven't they ever seen bar joists buckling after a warehouse fire. The roof joists become deformed and the roof collapses. There's no need for structural steel to "melt" in order for it to fail.

241 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:38:22pm

Arg, it is so black and white, when it really isn't.

Where shall I go to find a center view?

I am a person who feels emotionally. Did anyone see the photo on Andrew Sullivan's blog where the young guys were yelling at the Palestinian woman who's house was, I don't know, occupied? given back to it's original owner?

It was shocking to see. And I see things in a personal way. You may call it propaganda, but it was a real photo.

242 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:38:25pm

re: #237 windsagio

And not every person in Gaza is a member of Hamas. Treating them like they are is sloppy thinking at the very least.

there is no other choice...it is entirely their doing...buck up and join the real world where Hamas blows innocent people to bits...enforcing their ideology you seem to find so innocuous

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:39:09pm

OK, this is very funny.

Israel Publishes Gaza Travel Guidebook for Pro-Hamas Freedom Flotilla

244 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:39:20pm

re: #242 albusteve

Thats a slightly better attempt man :D

245 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:39:27pm

re: #232 windsagio

If something over half of the people in the apartment complex next door wanted to have my car towed, I'd be able to see that not all of them did.

But if 80% of them wanted to kill you, you'd protect yourself and hardships inflicted on the other 20% would be of secondary concern.

246 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:39:32pm

re: #240 Gus 802

No way. Some people are still unconvinced? Haven't they ever seen bar joists buckling after a warehouse fire. The roof joists become deformed and the roof collapses. There's no need for structural steel to "melt" in order for it to fail.

People who host talk shows usually don't frequent neighborhoods that have warehouses...

247 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:40:19pm

re: #246 brookly red

People who host talk shows usually don't frequent neighborhoods that have warehouses...

Didn't mean the NatGeo crew. Meant the truthers that need yet another "instructional video."

248 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:40:27pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

That's a legitimate criticism but it seems the safety procedures need some review. If he lifts the ban and there's another huge spill he'd certainly going to be responsible for it. We'll see how this all works out but this current leak still isn't plugged. This just keeps getting worse.

249 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:40:48pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but I wouldn't reject out of hand the idea of working with the other 20%.

And I would acknowledge the difference. Its important that we keep ourselves honest on these things, especially with such emotionally charged issues.

250 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:41:20pm

re: #247 Gus 802

Didn't mean the NatGeo crew. Meant the truthers that need yet another "instructional video."

I meant Rosie...

251 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:41:30pm

Hamas puppets teach children to kill Jews.

Youtube Video
252 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:42:09pm

re: #250 brookly red

I meant Rosie...

Oh. I got a little cornfused again.

Yeah, that dimwit. "Fire doesn't melt steel!11!1!!"

253 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:42:21pm

re: #241 Stanley Sea

Thats kind of my thing. We can't dehumanize people, or minimize their suffering.

Of course, we have to understand too that some suffering is inevitable. In that case we should do what is reasonable to mitigate it, and avoid intentionally making it worse.

254 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:42:37pm

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Walk me through this.

255 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:42:52pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, this is very funny.

Israel Publishes Gaza Travel Guidebook for Pro-Hamas Freedom Flotilla

wow...great snag, I love it

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:43:30pm

Really what we’re concerned about is that you suck at driving boats. Last time you only had one ship and you still managed to crash it because – of all things – you tried to outmaneuver an Israeli Navy vessel. This time you’re bringing nine boats. While we fully expect our Navy to interdict all of you, a legal and justified act under black letter maritime law, the odds are overwhelming that one of you tools is going to accidentally ground your boat. Given your obvious intention of creating a spectacle and your similarly obvious inability to manage same, it’s pretty much inevitable.

257 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:43:46pm

re: #244 windsagio

Thats a slightly better attempt man :D

wtf are you talking about?....has your ego gone hyper again?

258 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:19pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Walk me through this.

Thanks for the contextless, browser-resizing picture.

Crap.

259 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:23pm

re: #257 albusteve

We've been over this, I can't think I"m any more awesome than I do!

260 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:26pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Walk me through this.

What's the situation?

261 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:41pm

re: #249 windsagio

Yes, but I wouldn't reject out of hand the idea of working with the other 20%.

And I would acknowledge the difference. Its important that we keep ourselves honest on these things, especially with such emotionally charged issues.

you'd be dead

262 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:46pm

re: #255 albusteve

wow...great snag, I love it

Lol.

Really what we’re concerned about is that you suck at driving boats. Last time you only had one ship and you still managed to crash it because – of all things – you tried to outmaneuver an Israeli Navy vessel. This time you’re bringing nine boats. While we fully expect our Navy to interdict all of you, a legal and justified act under black letter maritime law, the odds are overwhelming that one of you tools is going to accidentally ground your boat. Given your obvious intention of creating a spectacle and your similarly obvious inability to manage same, it’s pretty much inevitable.

263 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:44:54pm

re: #252 Gus 802

Oh. I got a little cornfused again.

Yeah, that dimwit. "Fire doesn't melt steel!11!1!!"

I remember as a child seeing pictures of the giant buckets pouring molten steel in Penn. Those day I guess are gone.

264 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:45:02pm

re: #261 albusteve

If they wanted to tow my car?!

265 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:45:11pm

re: #258 Cato the Elder

Thanks for the contextless, browser-resizing picture.

Crap.

Sorry! That fucking photo has screwed up my thoughts on the issue.

266 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:45:23pm

re: #261 albusteve

damn I missed a chance for a Star Wars reference :(

267 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:46:01pm

re: #266 windsagio

damn I missed a chance for a Star Wars reference :(

Slipping, you are.

268 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

Never too late.

"I'll be careful!"

269 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:46:29pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

What's the situation?

Palestinians protesting in front of their homes that were reclaimed or ? (hell, I don't know enough to opine) and meeting the people protesting against their protest.

270 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:47:03pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

"a bunch of young douchey looking guys yelling at a woman in a headscarf"

271 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:47:22pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

Sorry! That fucking photo has screwed up my thoughts on the issue.

[Link: themagneszionist.blogspot.com...]

272 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:47:41pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

Slipping, you are.

there is nothing there....college style idealism just does not apply to the real world...good for a few laughs tho

273 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:49:18pm

re: #271 Stanley Sea

That's kinda a weird thing. From my friend over there there's a big problem with Jerkwad Jewish-American kids going over there and making trouble for everyone, then going back home.

274 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:49:41pm

Please tell me Admiral Cynthia McKinney is commanding the "flotilla".

275 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:50:53pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Please tell me Admiral Cynthia McKinney is commanding the "flotilla".

Sadly, no. If she were, you'd have chance to give her the treatment meted out to Admiral Ozzel. X(

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:52:12pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Please tell me Admiral Cynthia McKinney is commanding the "flotilla".

So far I haven't heard that she's going. Pity, she's seemed to enjoy herself in the past.

277 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:52:29pm

Let me reiterate, I am here to learn, but things sometimes are so one sided, that I have to get info elsewhere. Gah, I really respect the folks here and do not wish to offend, but dang it, I would like more dialog, rather than the strict right/wrong that obviously doesn't always apply.

As with everything.

278 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:52:40pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Concur. For Israel the choice is stark: Win or die. There is no alternative.

There's always coexistence.

279 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:53:16pm

re: #278 darthstar

There's always coexistence.

Can't happen with Hamas in power.

280 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:53:33pm

re: #278 darthstar

There's always coexistence.

but that would require a partner...

281 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:54:05pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Palestinians protesting in front of their homes that were reclaimed or ? (hell, I don't know enough to opine) and meeting the people protesting against their protest.

Ah, ok. It's a very complicated issue. Some of those homes were legally sold a couple generations ago. Some were abandoned by people who refused to live under a Jewish Democracy. Some people left with the expectation that Muslim Armies would sweep through and they'd come back and claim it all.
You couldn't go to the house that your grandfather was born in and claim it was yours just like somebody couldn't lay claim to your house because their grandfather was born there.
Much of the land was acquired legally but there are some grey areas. Without knowing her claim to the house I couldn't really pass judgement but this is the whole issue behind the "right to return" that Palestinians insist on. They want to reclaim property that they sold, abandoned or were pushed out of a very long time ago.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:55:17pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Let me reiterate, I am here to learn, but things sometimes are so one sided, that I have to get info elsewhere. Gah, I really respect the folks here and do not wish to offend, but dang it, I would like more dialog, rather than the strict right/wrong that obviously doesn't always apply.

As with everything.

I get that. I think some of us shut down, because the propaganda coming from the anti-Israel side of things is so...intense.

The situation in and around Israel is enormously nuanced and complex.

The motivation for the flotilla, I would argue, pretty much isn't.

283 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:55:28pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Sadly, no. If she were, you'd have chance to give her the treatment meted out to Admiral Ozzel. X(

get everybody ashore and pillage all of them...give the hulls to the Haitians for scrap

284 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:55:43pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Let me reiterate, I am here to learn, but things sometimes are so one sided, that I have to get info elsewhere. Gah, I really respect the folks here and do not wish to offend, but dang it, I would like more dialog, rather than the strict right/wrong that obviously doesn't always apply.

As with everything.

Israel is right. The Arabs are wrong.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

285 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:55:53pm

re: #278 darthstar

There's always coexistence.

And Israel is ready to pursue such a course. But Gazans are not. Almost to a man, they believe in war till Israel is destroyed. Israel did not start or declare this war, nor can they end it short of a massacre (which they will not do, and which I would not support). To end the war:

Hamas Delenda Est.

286 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:56:40pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Let me reiterate, I am here to learn, but things sometimes are so one sided, that I have to get info elsewhere. Gah, I really respect the folks here and do not wish to offend, but dang it, I would like more dialog, rather than the strict right/wrong that obviously doesn't always apply.

As with everything.

just post whatever you need to...it will be a good thing

287 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:56:45pm

re: #281 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. It's a very complicated issue. Some of those homes were legally sold a couple generations ago. Some were abandoned by people who refused to live under a Jewish Democracy. Some people left with the expectation that Muslim Armies would sweep through and they'd come back and claim it all.
You couldn't go to the house that your grandfather was born in and claim it was yours just like somebody couldn't lay claim to your house because their grandfather was born there.
Much of the land was acquired legally but there are some grey areas. Without knowing her claim to the house I couldn't really pass judgement but this is the whole issue behind the "right to return" that Palestinians insist on. They want to reclaim property that they sold, abandoned or were pushed out of a very long time ago.

Thank you KT.

Just take away the ugliness please. (yeah, I know)

288 darthstar  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:57:20pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Can't happen with Hamas in power.

re: #280 brookly red

but that would require a partner...

Well, it beats the hell out of an all-or-nothing choice...even if there's only a 1% chance Israel could lose, people win lotteries with worse odds than that. I think win or die is a self-defeating attitude.

289 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:57:32pm

re: #282 SanFranciscoZionist

Please recommend some sites for me to read?

290 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:58:29pm

re: #286 albusteve

just post whatever you need to...it will be a good thing

yeah, tough blog this is.

291 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:59:11pm

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Israel is right. The Arabs are wrong.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

yup

292 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:59:40pm

re: #283 albusteve

get everybody ashore and pillage all of them...give the hulls to the Haitians for scrap

Better still: Send the terror-lover's flotilla to Haiti and allow an equivalent number of Haitians into Europe. Haiti gets relief supplies, and Europe get people who actually want to work and be productive. Win-win. The only losers are the jerkwater terror-lovers.

293 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 5:59:54pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

NatGeo just did a experiment showing how a jet fuel fire can soften steel enough to cause structural failure without the steel melting. Great stuff.

"No Comment"
- Rosie O'Donnell

294 Varek Raith  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:00:20pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

Better still: Send the terror-lover's flotilla to Haiti and allow an equivalent number of Haitians into Europe. Haiti gets relief supplies, and Europe get people who actually want to work and be productive. Win-win. The only losers are the jerkwater terror-lovers.

jerkwater?

295 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:00:54pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

Better still: Send the terror-lover's flotilla to Haiti and allow an equivalent number of Haitians into Europe. Haiti gets relief supplies, and Europe get people who actually want to work and be productive. Win-win. The only losers are the jerkwater terror-lovers.

okay...it's doable

296 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:01:27pm

re: #290 Stanley Sea

yeah, tough blog this is.

You're going about it the right way Stanley, don't take anyone's word at face value, there is way too much bias in an emotionally charged issue like this one. Just make sure you apply a critical eye to the information you do get.

I'm still in the learning stages on this issue myself.

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:01:29pm

re: #278 darthstar

There's always coexistence.

Israel has done pretty well there, actually. Aside from Lebanon, which has its own problems, the bordering countries have pretty much gotten used to Israel, and made various arrangements to cope, going so far as to arrange a formal treaty in Egypt's case. Israeli Arabs certainly face assorted issues, but are integrated into Israeli national life, serve in the Knesset, the IDF and the diplomatic corps, etc. Despite many disagreements with the state about all kinds of issues, Israeli Arabs have been fine where they are. During the height of the Second Intifada, there was ONE Israeli citizen who became a suicide bomber, and people were absolutely shocked.

The remaining major issue, besides the routine anti-Israel craziness of the broader Arab world, is what the hell to do about the remaining stateless Palestinian communities. Israel, Jordan and Egypt will not and cannot absorb them, there are issues about what will happen if they create an independent state, and Gaza has gone really haywire.

But overall, Israel's coexistence project is going rather better than might be expected.

298 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:01:45pm

re: #284 Cato the Elder

Israel is right. The Arabs are wrong.

Sometimes it really is that simple.

247,000 updings.

299 Bagua  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:02:23pm

re: #135 Alouette

Bagua eated the flotilla!

/

Also in the process of deleting all their followers. Though the Israeli Navy may beat me to it.

300 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:02:33pm

re: #278 darthstar

There's always coexistence.

One side demonstrates - on a daily basis - they are willing to pursue this.

301 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:02:56pm

re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist

Israel is not a signatory to the 1982 International Law of the Sea. I'm not sure what black letter maritime law you are referring to but I'd be happy to look at it.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:02:59pm

re: #287 Stanley Sea

Thank you KT.

Just take away the ugliness please. (yeah, I know)

No, I know. I want to smack those boys right in their faces, and I don't even much care if this lady has a legitimate claim. They ain't behaving right.

303 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:03:27pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

I was just going to say that...very nice, thanks

304 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:04:16pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

Better still: Send the terror-lover's flotilla to Haiti and allow an equivalent number of Haitians into Europe. Haiti gets relief supplies, and Europe get people who actually want to work and be productive. Win-win. The only losers are the jerkwater terror-lovers.

Calm your language D_F, the people going over there do not love terror any more than you do. They see the Palestinians as victims trying to survive and fighting back against an oppressive regime. They may be wrong, they may be stupid, they may be gullible, but they aren't evil, and certainly not lovers of terror.

305 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:04:20pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I know. I want to smack those boys right in their faces, and I don't even much care if this lady has a legitimate claim. They ain't behaving right.

Agreed. There's a lot of ugliness in those neighborhoods.

306 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:04:34pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I know. I want to smack those boys right in their faces, and I don't even much care if this lady has a legitimate claim. They ain't behaving right.

That's whats sucks! That's what I (and others) see. It's fucking not helping.

307 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:05:25pm

re: #294 Varek Raith

jerkwater?

It's a term of abuse I use instead for just 'jerk'. I'm not sure where I picked it up, but I use it sometimes when I want to say something a different way.

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:05:43pm

re: #289 Stanley Sea

Please recommend some sites for me to read?

www.standwithus.com and [Link: www.bluetruth.net...] have good articles.

What are you interested in knowing more about?

309 Bagua  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:05:47pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Crap!
I gotta go to the DMV to renew my ID...
Dammit, dammit, dammit!

The DMV is Of The Devil™

310 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:06:00pm

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim lands

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:06:57pm

re: #301 Olsonist

Israel is not a signatory to the 1982 International Law of the Sea. I'm not sure what black letter maritime law you are referring to but I'd be happy to look at it.

Quote from my link.

312 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:07:06pm

re: #147 Alouette

What about Germans who had no say in Hitler taking over? Or innocent Japanese who had no say in the Emperor taking over? Or helpless Russians and Chinese who had no say in the Communists taking over?

Sucked to be them.

The point is it's not so much a matter of collective punishment as collective consequences. There is no way for mere mortals to make a bomb that strikes the just and not the unjust. Any war is bound to sweep up innocent lives. But the reason we have wars is that it can come down to a choice of submitting to your own destruction by men who have chosen to be wolves among us sheep---if we will be sheep---or fighting.

313 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:07:51pm

Israeli–Palestinian conflict

314 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:08:27pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

Quote from my link.

While we fully expect our Navy to interdict all of you, a legal and justified act under black letter maritime law.

315 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:08:31pm

re: #304 b_sharp

Calm your language D_F, the people going over there do not love terror any more than you do. They see the Palestinians as victims trying to survive and fighting back against an oppressive regime. They may be wrong, they may be stupid, they may be gullible, but they aren't evil, and certainly not lovers of terror.

Some of them clearly hate Jews. Those are evil. As for the rest, I simply do not care. Their actions support a terrorist organization seeking to annihilate a democratic nation the wants peace, therefore they are objectively pro-terror.

316 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:08:47pm

re: #306 Stanley Sea

Its interesting to see how you and I respond to things differently on here >>

317 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:09:37pm

re: #309 Bagua

The DMV is Of The Devil™

Mr. Jones, is that you?

/

318 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:10:12pm

What Arab Civilization?

319 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:11:29pm

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Some of them clearly hate Jews. Those are evil. As for the rest, I simply do not care. Their actions support a terrorist organization seeking to annihilate a democratic nation the wants peace, therefore they are objectively pro-terror.

"But they mean well!"

God rot well-meaning tools and idiots.

320 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:11:40pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

www.standwithus.com and [Link: www.bluetruth.net...] have good articles.

What are you interested in knowing more about?

Thank you. I just bookmarked it.

I just want to read the Israeli side of things - and not from the American political view. I look at it as human rights and need to understand the situation better. Hell, SFZ, I want to get to where you are!

321 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:12:05pm

re: #318 Racer X

What Arab Civilization?

I hope Ms. Fiorina read and understood that letter, since she is running for the Senate from California.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:12:50pm

re: #306 Stanley Sea

That's whats sucks! That's what I (and others) see. It's fucking not helping.

This is the picture I remember. Two Israeli reservists were lynched after driving down the wrong road. Their killers displayed bloody hands to the crowd.

There are others.

I understand how that picture makes you feel, but I see it in a much larger context. Yes, those boys are being ugly and cruel. But they are not all Israelis, any more than a suicide bomber is every Palestinian. This is a conflict. There is pain and suffering on both sides, and bad behavior on both sides.

But ultimately, Israel has acted with more care for the average Palestinian than Hamas shows.

323 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:13:25pm

re: #318 Racer X

Lost me at "Arabs appeared on the world scene in 630 AD".

324 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:13:53pm

re: #314 Olsonist

While we fully expect our Navy to interdict all of you, a legal and justified act under black letter maritime law.

No, no, that WAS a quote from the thing I linked to Mere Rhetoric. They may be mistaken about the Maritime Law. I wouldn't know.

325 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:14:11pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

Israel has done pretty well there, actually. Aside from Lebanon, which has its own problems, the bordering countries have pretty much gotten used to Israel, and made various arrangements to cope, going so far as to arrange a formal treaty in Egypt's case. Israeli Arabs certainly face assorted issues, but are integrated into Israeli national life, serve in the Knesset, the IDF and the diplomatic corps, etc. Despite many disagreements with the state about all kinds of issues, Israeli Arabs have been fine where they are. During the height of the Second Intifada, there was ONE Israeli citizen who became a suicide bomber, and people were absolutely shocked.

The remaining major issue, besides the routine anti-Israel craziness of the broader Arab world, is what the hell to do about the remaining stateless Palestinian communities. Israel, Jordan and Egypt will not and cannot absorb them, there are issues about what will happen if they create an independent state, and Gaza has gone really haywire.

But overall, Israel's coexistence project is going rather better than might be expected.

I'm not sure why people get upset at suicide bombing as an act of war. Killing more than one person at a time is pretty much the norm in modern combat. What is upsetting, or should be, are the targets. Every war has had occasions where non-combatants are the targets, and terror was used to bring the end of the war closer, but killing non-combatants as a rule, without much of an attempt to limit attacks to the military, is despicable.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:14:28pm

re: #318 Racer X

What Arab Civilization?

Oy. Talk about things that won't help.

327 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:14:30pm

re: #248 Killgore Trout

That's a legitimate criticism but it seems the safety procedures need some review. If he lifts the ban and there's another huge spill he'd certainly going to be responsible for it. We'll see how this all works out but this current leak still isn't plugged. This just keeps getting worse.

Yes it does.
I posted this earlier today, but perhaps I should post it again, this is an e-mail from the Roi from this morning:


Well BP continues on its track of making bad decision after bad decision. Surprising no one in the oil industry they announced the top kill had failed. From the first day they started pumping mud they had to know it would fail and to me was doomed before it started. To top kill this well they would have to exceed 13700 psi hydrostatic pressure, using 17.0 ppg mud at 5000' of water gives them 4400 psi at the surface, to that they would have to impose more than 9000 psi pump pressure and this would have to be done with leaks at the seafloor in the marine riser.

What BP never said was what their pumping pressure was at the surface nor did they reveal to anyone that the riser where the leaks are cannot hold high pressure and should split even if undamaged at less than 5000 psi.

Now they are going to knock off (cut off or disconnect) the marine riser, cut any drillpipe inside that riser (and there is pipe inside it) install a cap and connect this to the drillship enterprise for processing. Recovering all oil escaping from the well. This can be done and should be fairly easily done except...it does nothing to contain the well.

Now they will be flowing oil and gas to a drillship ( it does have production capabilities and est. 200,000 bbls holding capacity) and what happens if there's a hurricane. Hold the drillship and risk the lives of all men aboard or open the well to the gulf again? BP should be disconnecting the connector on the LMRP (lower marine riser package) and stabbing with the same connector size an entire BOP stack and closing the well.

The BOP's are big and heavy enough that they could be stabbed over a flowing well and would be wide open until stabbed and tested. The well could then be left until the relief well is finished and the flowing well killed and cemented off. Obama should have ordered BP to be working with other oil companies (Shell in particular) on ongoing plans. The so called experts the gov't brought in are idiots who don't know any better then what BP tells them. God protect us from the morons. Talk with you later.

328 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:15:17pm

re: #319 Cato the Elder

"But they mean well!"

God rot well-meaning tools and idiots.

Well we know to whose place good intentions pave the road:

Youtube Video
329 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:15:52pm

Explaining the Arab-Israeli conflict through numbers

330 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:16:13pm

re: #258 Cato the Elder

Thanks for the contextless, browser-resizing picture.

Crap.

No context, no indication of who or when or where that photo was taken, or what the conversation was about, or who else was there.

331 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:16:27pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

Oy. Talk about things that won't help.

Yeah, sorry. Just posting some old bookmarks.

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:16:30pm

re: #320 Stanley Sea

Thank you. I just bookmarked it.

I just want to read the Israeli side of things - and not from the American political view. I look at it as human rights and need to understand the situation better. Hell, SFZ, I want to get to where you are!

There are some good Israeli bloggers who touch on some this.

Chayyei Sarah is a good person to read.

333 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:16:46pm

re: #318 Racer X

What Arab Civilization?

See, I liked and read (partially) your link about the Israel/Palestine conflict. Thank you.

But then you post something "What Arab Civilization" an article that totally demeans a group of fucking people.

It is the bias that I continually see that makes me ask questions.

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:17:03pm

re: #323 windsagio

Lost me at "Arabs appeared on the world scene in 630 AD".

Before that, they were just sitting around.

335 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:17:47pm

re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist

Yup. Had nothing to do with ANYBODY!

Seriously, how can we expect to deal with the situation rationally when there's that kind of bigotry being tossed around?

336 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:18:09pm

re: #281 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. It's a very complicated issue. Some of those homes were legally sold a couple generations ago. Some were abandoned by people who refused to live under a Jewish Democracy. Some people left with the expectation that Muslim Armies would sweep through and they'd come back and claim it all.
You couldn't go to the house that your grandfather was born in and claim it was yours just like somebody couldn't lay claim to your house because their grandfather was born there.
Much of the land was acquired legally but there are some grey areas. Without knowing her claim to the house I couldn't really pass judgement but this is the whole issue behind the "right to return" that Palestinians insist on. They want to reclaim property that they sold, abandoned or were pushed out of a very long time ago.

The Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah were awarded the property as booty by the Jordanians.

337 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:18:18pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the picture I remember. Two Israeli reservists were lynched after driving down the wrong road. Their killers displayed bloody hands to the crowd.

There are others.

I understand how that picture makes you feel, but I see it in a much larger context. Yes, those boys are being ugly and cruel. But they are not all Israelis, any more than a suicide bomber is every Palestinian. This is a conflict. There is pain and suffering on both sides, and bad behavior on both sides.

But ultimately, Israel has acted with more care for the average Palestinian than Hamas shows.

Oh God. Thank you.

338 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:19:36pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a terrible situation, and neither side is 100% blameless.

Altho' one side is substantially more right >>

339 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:19:44pm

re: #337 Stanley Sea

Oh God. Thank you.

Hey, no problem. I understand how big this whole issue is, especially if you're looking for truth, not easy answers.

I'll try to post some more blogs that are good reads.

340 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:20:09pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

There are some good Israeli bloggers who touch on some this.

Chayyei Sarah is a good person to read.

Thank you.

341 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:21:07pm

re: #333 Stanley Sea

See, I liked and read (partially) your link about the Israel/Palestine conflict. Thank you.

But then you post something "What Arab Civilization" an article that totally demeans a group of fucking people.

It is the bias that I continually see that makes me ask questions.

Yeah sorry. You're gonna see bias from both sides on this one.

This one may be more relevant.

MYTH: "Jews stole Arab land"

Keep in mind the source.

342 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:21:35pm

re: #53 Nimed

Will likes to show off his vocabulary.

343 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:22:02pm

re: #306 Stanley Sea

That's whats sucks! That's what I (and others) see. It's fucking not helping.

You're correct, that's what you see.
You see anything and everything that puts Isreal in a bad light.
It's rare to see anything that puts Israel in a good light.
Seriously.
Think about how much you see and hear that is anti-Israel.

And just like earlier, Windsagio had no clue Isreal was giving humanitarian aid. That is the side of the story that is never told, making it all that much more difficult to sort things out.

344 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:22:02pm

re: #335 windsagio

Yup. Had nothing to do with ANYBODY!

Seriously, how can we expect to deal with the situation rationally when there's that kind of bigotry being tossed around?

While the entire Arab world tolerates Nazi-style propaganda against Jews every day of the week, I remain unmoved at the occasional piece denigrating their great culture.

Bugger them.

345 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:22:56pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Well we know to whose place good intentions pave the road:


[Video]

Albusteve, make sure you watch this one. Keith Richards has a truly awe-inspiring solo and Mick Jagger is in top form.

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:24:09pm

This will not help anyone understand the Middle East that much better, but is a funny new site I just located linked from Chayyei Sarah. Jerusalem Headgear. Scroll down to the Easter Sunday entry to get a look at the Arab scout troop and their hats.

347 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:24:39pm

And if you really want to have tears stream down your face, read this:

Holocaust Timeline

Then get back to me how the poor Palestinians are being persecuted.

348 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:25:16pm

re: #333 Stanley Sea

It's an old essay circulated around the usual sites.

349 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:25:42pm

re: #342 freetoken

Will likes to show off his vocabulary.

:D

I really like Will, it's one of my favorite right-wing bloggers (I don't know if we would accept the description, though).

But that 1st paragraph... Jesus.

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:26:06pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

This will not help anyone understand the Middle East that much better, but is a funny new site I just located linked from Chayyei Sarah. Jerusalem Headgear. Scroll down to the Easter Sunday entry to get a look at the Arab scout troop and their hats.

Sorry, it's not Sunday, it's Holy Saturday. Still fun pictures.

351 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:26:26pm

re: #333 Stanley Sea

See, I liked and read (partially) your link about the Israel/Palestine conflict. Thank you.

But then you post something "What Arab Civilization" an article that totally demeans a group of fucking people.

It is the bias that I continually see that makes me ask questions.

Understandable.

I think some folks are just so angry at the near-continuous anti-Israel propaganda feed, that they go overboard and over the top the other way.

Not excusing it, just trying to explain it.

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:26:38pm

A baseball cap makes for a more casual look. Yes, he is riding on someone's shoulders and brandishing a sword - why do you ask?

353 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:28:24pm

re: #343 reine.de.tout

You're correct, that's what you see.
You see anything and everything that puts Isreal in a bad light.
It's rare to see anything that puts Israel in a good light.
Seriously.
Think about how much you see and hear that is anti-Israel.

And just like earlier, Windsagio had no clue Isreal was giving humanitarian aid. That is the side of the story that is never told, making it all that much more difficult to sort things out.

Olsonist, you didn't like this.
Perhaps you would explain why.

354 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:28:35pm

re: #343 reine.de.tout

You're correct, that's what you see.
You see anything and everything that puts Israel in a bad light.
It's rare to see anything that puts Israel in a good light.
Seriously.
Think about how much you see and hear that is anti-Israel.

And just like earlier, Windsagio had no clue Israel was giving humanitarian aid. That is the side of the story that is never told, making it all that much more difficult to sort things out.

Reine, I have lived with a Mother who has preached the beauty and righteousness of Israel to me over and over, she lived after it, but through it in a way. Hell, I was doing Holocaust reports in Jr. High, shocked everyone, but teach liked it. I have no animosity towards the State of Israel and it's founding. nada.

BUT

What we see now needs to be countered.

Not with these broad brush arguments that if you question the Government of Israel, you are an anti-Semite!! That is amazing to me.

There are 2 sides to every conflict, and I want to know them.

355 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:28:50pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

Don't justify bad behavior.

Even if what you're saying is true, its still not right.

356 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:29:31pm

re: #354 Stanley Sea

Reine, I have lived with a Mother who has preached the beauty and righteousness of Israel to me over and over, she lived after it, but through it in a way. Hell, I was doing Holocaust reports in Jr. High, shocked everyone, but teach liked it. I have no animosity towards the State of Israel and it's founding. nada.

BUT

What we see now needs to be countered.

Not with these broad brush arguments that if you question the Government of Israel, you are an anti-Semite!! That is amazing to me.

There are 2 sides to every conflict, and I want to know them.

Absolutely agreed.
It's important to know both sides, the good, bad and the ugly.

357 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:30:29pm

re: #355 windsagio

Don't justify bad behavior.

Even if what you're saying is true, its still not right.

Didn't say it was, and in fact, in my post, that you did not quote, I specifically said I was not justifying it, but explaining it. I don't like the over-the-top stuff at all.

358 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:31:03pm

re: #325 b_sharp

I'm not sure why people get upset at suicide bombing as an act of war. Killing more than one person at a time is pretty much the norm in modern combat. What is upsetting, or should be, are the targets. Every war has had occasions where non-combatants are the targets, and terror was used to bring the end of the war closer, but killing non-combatants as a rule, without much of an attempt to limit attacks to the military, is despicable.

Exactly. It depends on the target of the suicide bombing. Deliberately targeting civilian population is never acceptable, no matter how noble your reasons, AFAIC.

359 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:31:05pm

re: #349 Nimed

I really like Will, it's one of my favorite right-wing bloggers (I don't know if we would accept the description, though).

He would reject the claim outright. He is a self described "liberaltarian", and Cato hires him no doubt for the first two and the last 3 syllables of that term.

360 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:31:27pm

re: #354 Stanley Sea

There are 2 sides to every conflict, and I want to know them.

There are two sides to every conflict, and I want to be on the right one, and see the other one lose.

361 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:31:31pm

re: #353 reine.de.tout

I see plenty of pro-Israel stories and plenty of anti-Israel stories. The idea That is the side of the story that is never told is nonsense.

362 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:33:10pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

you know, I read it twice.

Apparently I am full of fail anyways, sorry.

363 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:33:29pm

re: #360 Cato the Elder

There are two sides to every conflict, and I want to be on the right one, and see the other one lose.

Quite Concur.

364 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:33:29pm

re: #361 Olsonist

I see plenty of pro-Israel stories and plenty of anti-Israel stories. The idea That is the side of the story that is never told is nonsense.

I said 'rarely'.
And the anti-Israel propaganda is better publicized than pro-Israel propaganda.

365 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:34:07pm

re: #362 windsagio

you know, I read it twice.

Apparently I am full of fail anyways, sorry.

:-)

366 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:34:19pm

re: #364 reine.de.tout

I said 'rarely'.
And the anti-Israel propaganda is better publicized than pro-Israel propaganda.

Lately. We need some stepping up.

367 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:34:47pm

re: #364 reine.de.tout

I said 'rarely'.
And the anti-Israel propaganda is better publicized than pro-Israel propaganda.

Oh come on... most of the United States government is controlled by the pro-Israel lobby... you know that.

368 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:36:17pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Oh come on... most of the United States government is controlled by the pro-Israel lobby... you know that.

Heh.
I deliberately used the word "rare".
But what Olsonist saw was:

The idea That is the side of the story that is never told is nonsense.

Some folks see what they expect (or want) to see, I guess, instead of what is actually there.

369 prairiefire  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:37:38pm

re: #241 Stanley Sea

Arg, it is so black and white, when it really isn't.

Where shall I go to find a center view?

I am a person who feels emotionally. Did anyone see the photo on Andrew Sullivan's blog where the young guys were yelling at the Palestinian woman who's house was, I don't know, occupied? given back to it's original owner?

It was shocking to see. And I see things in a personal way. You may call it propaganda, but it was a real photo.

I saw it, Stanley. It affected me as well.

370 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:37:42pm

re: #359 freetoken

He would reject the claim outright. He is a self described "liberaltarian", and Cato hires him no doubt for the first two and the last 3 syllables of that term.

The right wing classification is unfair, I agree, unless restricted to his economic views.
Oh, The liberaltarian, Rawlsekian project. I don't have much hope for it, but I do like it. :)

371 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:38:57pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Man its dangerous to even mention the Israel lobby!

372 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:39:29pm

There were two sides to World War II, and I still don't give a shit how the Nazis saw the world.

That's pretty much how I feel about the Arabs and their grievances, too.

373 Alouenghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:40:19pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

This will not help anyone understand the Middle East that much better, but is a funny new site I just located linked from Chayyei Sarah. Jerusalem Headgear. Scroll down to the Easter Sunday entry to get a look at the Arab scout troop and their hats.

I think I have owned several of those hats.

374 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:40:22pm

Palestine Facts

375 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:40:56pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

Oy. Talk about things that won't help.

We should go along with the Orwellian project of reducing to nothing the history of people who were first destroyed, and now will be erased? So as to help feed the illimitable and unfounded self esteem of those who seek to destroy us too?

And why do they seek our destruction? One of the reasons may well be a matter of cognitive dissonance. Their book and their teachers tell them that they are the best of people. But while other people who achieve more live, their [our, that is] very existence is a living reproach and a cause for unease.

376 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:41:08pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

There were two sides to World War II, and I still don't give a shit how the Nazis saw the world.

That's pretty much how I feel about the Arabs and their grievances, too.

fuckin A!

377 Stinky Beaumont  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:41:47pm

re: #371 windsagio

Man its dangerous to even mention the Israel lobby!

You should be aware that the Arab Lobby has much more money behind it, and is not working toward your best interests.

378 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:41:59pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist
re: #366 Stanley Sea
re: #362 windsagio
re: #373 Alouette

Great thread so far, people.

379 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:42:15pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

c'mon now... comparing a whole huge ethnic group to nazism? I feel like this is 1997 and usenet.

380 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:42:27pm

Middle-East Info

Good one.

381 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:42:31pm

re: #370 Nimed

Wilkinson is quite the supporter of open borders (that is, unlimited legal immigration) and open trade. That is his "libertarian" side. He would most definitely not be at home at the Tea Parties.

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:43:29pm

re: #375 lostlakehiker

We should go along with the Orwellian project of reducing to nothing the history of people who were first destroyed, and now will be erased? So as to help feed the illimitable and unfounded self esteem of those who seek to destroy us too?

And why do they seek our destruction? One of the reasons may well be a matter of cognitive dissonance. Their book and their teachers tell them that they are the best of people. But while other people who achieve more live, their [our, that is] very existence is a living reproach and a cause for unease.

I'm sorry, the letter is politically driven drivel. I have no patience for the 'let us now bash the whole history of the Muslim world in two and a half minutes' school of historical thought.

383 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:44:26pm

Bwaaaa.... WND's top headline right now is on the... BILDERBERGERS!!

This is the second time in a week they've tried to resurrect that old pony.

384 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:44:58pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

There were two sides to World War II, and I still don't give a shit how the Nazis saw the world.

That's pretty much how I feel about the Arabs and their grievances, too.

But you knew how they saw the world.

There were two sides, and we knew what they were, and made a determination that one side was right.

We do need to know all sides of every conflict, in order to make the best determination as to which "side" best reflects our values.

385 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:45:01pm

re: #379 windsagio

c'mon now... comparing a whole huge ethnic group to nazism? I feel like this is 1997 and usenet.

I agree with Cato...the ME has become so severely nuanced because there are fortunes to be made off this Arab siege of Israel....the Islamic menace is a money making machine

386 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:45:12pm

re: #379 windsagio

c'mon now... comparing a whole huge ethnic group to nazism? I feel like this is 1997 and usenet.

well please do also consider that the relativity small percentage of that ethnic group that wants to destroy Israel don't like you or me too much either... just a thought.

387 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:45:29pm

Oh, except for their top of the screen exclusive... which is about the... ANTICHRIST!!

Just think, the former Mayor of San Diego now calls WND home.

388 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:45:32pm

Map of Palestine - 1020 BC

389 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:46:06pm

re: #381 freetoken

Wilkinson is quite the supporter of open borders (that is, unlimited legal immigration) and open trade. That is his "libertarian" side. He would most definitely not be at home at the Tea Parties.

Oh yeah. There's this great snippet in bloggingheads where he explains why is not a Ron Paul fan:

Why Ron Paul isn’t Will’s kind of libertarian

It's a bit long, though.

390 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:46:45pm

re: #379 windsagio

c'mon now... comparing a whole huge ethnic group to nazism? I feel like this is 1997 and usenet.

This is the standard Arab view of Israel and America.

Nothing to see there, right? Move along.

391 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:47:07pm

re: #379 windsagio

c'mon now... comparing a whole huge ethnic group to nazism? I feel like this is 1997 and usenet.

It's not an extreme stretch, given the Pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic attitudes held by the overwhelming majority of Arabs.

392 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:47:36pm

re: #384 reine.de.tout

But you knew how they saw the world.

There were two sides, and we knew what they were, and made a determination that one side was right.

We do need to know all sides of every conflict, in order to make the best determination as to which "side" best reflects our values.

I figured that out by the time I was six. Nothing has changed since then.

393 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:47:41pm

re: #380 Racer X

Middle-East Info

Good one.

From your link:

The case for Israel should be apparent even to thoroughgoing supporters of the Palestinians. Who else has offered them a genuine future? Egypt? Jordan? Syria? Lebanon? The Gulf States? It takes only a cursory glance at the history of the Middle East to realize that for the most part, neighboring dictatorships have ruthlessly exploited the Palestinians for their own ends with callous indifference to the consequences. Israel, alone in the Middle East, has attempted to construct, with and for the Palestinians, a viable and peaceful future.

Therefore, it should not be put aside..I hope to hell that it DOES end that way.

394 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:47:41pm

re: #386 brookly red

Totally doesn't justify a racist generalization.

395 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:48:21pm

re: #391 Dark_Falcon

Pro-nazi? Really?

Educate me on that one :D

396 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:49:20pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sorry, the letter is politically driven drivel. I have no patience for the 'let us now bash the whole history of the Muslim world in two and a half minutes' school of historical thought.

(I posted this earlier this morning when I came home from work, but it seems appropiate here again... a little essay I wrote for our local community forum up here in mountain land... some of you already saw this)

----

In our modern world there is a fringe (but effective) collection of radical adherents to a form of radical Christianity and another group of adherents to a form of radical Islam.

One of these groups, radical Christians, place a hatred for practices like abortion and a hatred for what they see as "immoral" government at the forefront of a theocratic philosophy that moves them to want to violently, if need be, effect changes in the government of the United States.

Those with a narrow understanding of history, sees this as some recent and newly frightening concept, where as the actuality is that this radical form of Christian thinking has been in existence for almost 200 years in this country (see British-Israelism, early Mormon thought, KKK, Covenant groups, Identity groups, Jawhist groups etc.) and has influenced small pockets of Christians for decades. Much of the anti-government rhetoric of modern day radical Christians stem from the concepts presented by these aforementioned sects. These groups are localized and basically unorganized, loners so to speak, and their "outreach" deal primarily with the continental United States.

Another one of these groups, radical Islam, place a hatred for most non-Islamic cultures at the forefront of a theocratic philosophy that moves them to want to violently, if need be, effect changes in the governments of the world.

Those with a narrow understanding of history, sees this as some recent and isolated concept, where as the actuality is that this radical form of Islamic thinking has been in existence for almost 1400 years, worldwide (see the Quran, the Hadith's etc. for the origins of these concepts.). Much of the anti-western society rhetoric of modern day radical Islamist stem from the "rules" and laws presented in these aforementioned texts. These groups are worldwide and very active, supported by both individual religious leaders (Mullahs and Imams' ) and nation states and their "outreach" deal specifically with much of the non-Islamic world.

Both of these world views, radical Christians and radical Islamist must be dealt with, and has nothing to do with who has the "biggest stick." And if it is necessary to kill members of either of these groups in order to prevent them from accomplishing their missions then it will not be a matter of counting how many were killed. What will matter is stopping the advance of these radicals... period.

That's the situation. Endless reexaminations of the wrongs of centuries past, while a constructive exercise, does very little in addressing the realities of the current crop of radicals and terrorists, who have a mission now, a mission that includes indiscriminate murders of innocent people and the disruption of society.

Idealism reigns during time of peace, realism takes precedence in time of conflict, that's a simple truth which is unchangeable. I compliment those who strive for this idealism, but it will not solve anything.

397 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:49:28pm

re: #393 Stanley Sea

Therefore, it should not be put aside..I hope to hell that it DOES end that way.

Agreed.

From my viewpoint Israel has struggled to help Palestinians, while their Arab neighbors have only used her for political gain, even while doing horrendous harm.

398 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:02pm

re: #390 Cato the Elder

This is the standard Arab view of Israel and America.

Nothing to see there, right? Move along.

Nope, no Racism or anti-Semitism there.

/spits on Hamas

399 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:19pm

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

You might be interested to learn that, according to WND's latest expert, the Antichrist is going to be... a moslem!!

400 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:22pm

re: #368 reine.de.tout
Excuse me Reine, I was quoting from what you said, word for word:

And just like earlier, Windsagio had no clue Isreal was giving humanitarian aid. That is the side of the story that is never told, making it all that much more difficult to sort things out.
401 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:26pm

re: #394 windsagio

Totally doesn't justify a racist generalization.

You dare to cry "racism" in the face of pandemic Arab Jew-hatred?

402 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:27pm

re: #392 Cato the Elder

I figured that out by the time I was six. Nothing has changed since then.

You know you are smarter than most of the rest of us, I say that with complete sincerity and honesty.

Some of us need patience.

403 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:50pm

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Some of them clearly hate Jews. Those are evil. As for the rest, I simply do not care. Their actions support a terrorist organization seeking to annihilate a democratic nation the wants peace, therefore they are objectively pro-terror.

I don't know about the hate Jews part, I don't know them individually, but I find it difficult to believe that they ,as a group, hate the Jews. Somebody like the KKK and white supremacy groups, yes, but a collection of human rights wanna-bes? I don't think so. As far as believing they are pro-terror because they support Hamas, I'm not sure that is the case either. It is quite possible to support the human rights of a group, despite what their leaders are doing. Would you categorize all the citizens of cold war era USSR as evil Communists because of the ruling tyrants? I wouldn't think so. I do note that the above isn't a solid analogy because Hamas was voted in by (a minority of) Palestinians.

You want a target for your anger and hate, then Hamas is a justifiable and deserving target. I think there is probably a sizable chunk of the Palestinian people who would rather live with the Israelis than kill them but are afraid to speak out. This makes them cowards. But does it make them evil?

If the flotilla is comprised mostly of people against Hamas but in support of those willing to co-exist, would your opinion be the same?

404 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:50:59pm

re: #388 Racer X

Map of Palestine - 1020 BC

When people say there is no Palestine, I refer back to Anne Franks' diary where she mentions going to Palestine.

difficult.

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:51:01pm

re: #399 freetoken

You might be interested to learn that, according to WND's latest expert, the Antichrist is going to be... a moslem!!

I thought it was...oh, hell never mind.

A Muslim? Do tell?

406 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:51:19pm

re: #394 windsagio

Totally doesn't justify a racist generalization.

OK, lemmie put it to you this way, next time you are flying and the guy next to you is fumbling around with a package in his under ware and asks you if you got a light, think twice before saying sure bro... OK can you do that for me?

407 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:51:37pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

Lol "You dare?!"

Yes.

Yes I do.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:51:54pm

re: #403 b_sharp


If the flotilla is comprised mostly of people against Hamas but in support of those willing to co-exist, would your opinion be the same?

I'm pretty sure I know who's on the flotilla. They are not part of the solution.

409 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:52:12pm

re: #390 Cato the Elder

This is the standard Arab view of Israel and America.

Nothing to see there, right? Move along.

Dude, I thought you were linking to a document or something.

That is BS.

410 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:52:17pm

re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist

Supposedly the Antichrist is going to be the Islamic Mahdi.

Don't say you weren't warned!

411 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:52:25pm

re: #406 brookly red

Fearmongering is also not relevant to what we're talking about here, or shouldn't be.

I mean c'mon.

412 Tigger2005  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:52:46pm

Lizards with mad building skillz... need some input. My renter bought a metal frame pool, but though my yard is not steeply inclined, it's inclined enough that I have a 20.5" slope in a 16X16' area to deal with. My question is, rather than digging out earth to level it, would it be possible to build a wooden deck that would support a 16' diameter, 4' deep pool filled with water?

413 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:52:47pm

re: #395 windsagio

Pro-nazi? Really?

Educate me on that one :D

That would refer to the sales of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, street chants of "Hitler didn't finish the job" and the fascist nature of the Iraqi and Syrian Baath Party.

414 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:53:25pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sorry, the letter is politically driven drivel. I have no patience for the 'let us now bash the whole history of the Muslim world in two and a half minutes' school of historical thought.

Saladin wasn't Arab. Khalil Gibran wasn't Arab. [To name two great Muslims]. Suleiman, though not perhaps a good man, was a very effective warrior. He wasn't Arab either. There are indeed great Muslims, and that letter is not bashing the entire history of the Muslim world. But it is fair to note that the Arabs don't deserve all the credit for all those accomplishments of the Muslim world, and most particularly not when the real work was done by conquered and now largely vanished peoples.

415 albusteve  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:53:37pm

re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it was...oh, hell never mind.

A Muslim? Do tell?

either way I don't give a shit....bring it on Antifuckingwhoever

416 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:53:41pm

re: #409 Stanley Sea

I get the feed of political cartoons from one of the big syndicates (along with things like Little Orphan Annie and Doonesbury and such), I should link some of the things that come up sometimes. There are different lists for cartoons coming from each region.

Utterly fascinating.

417 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:53:42pm

re: #412 Tigger2005

Lizards with mad building skillz... need some input. My renter bought a metal frame pool, but though my yard is not steeply inclined, it's inclined enough that I have a 20.5" slope in a 16X16' area to deal with. My question is, rather than digging out earth to level it, would it be possible to build a wooden deck that would support a 16' diameter, 4' deep pool filled with water?

Easier to dig.

418 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:54:02pm

re: #400 Olsonist

Excuse me Reine, I was quoting from what you said, word for word:

Ah. You didn't quote anything.

This is the later comment I made that I was referring to that you didn't like, and so I thought this is what you were responding to:

re: #343 reine.de.tout

You're correct, that's what you see.
You see anything and everything that puts Isreal in a bad light.
It's rare to see anything that puts Israel in a good light.
Seriously.
Think about how much you see and hear that is anti-Israel.

And just like earlier, Windsagio had no clue Isreal was giving humanitarian aid. That is the side of the story that is never told, making it all that much more difficult to sort things out.

Olsonist, you didn't like this.
Perhaps you would explain why.

Windsagio had no clue Israel gave humanitarian aid; and frankly, I haven't seen that particular thing publicized.

You saw what you wanted to see.

419 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:54:04pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Story here:

Gaza flotilla changes course
By YAAKOV KATZ AND JPOST.COM STAFF
05/31/2010 02:39

This is going to generate a ton of negative publicity for the Israelis. A ton. And practically no one is going to understand (or want to understand) the false premise of it all. Or that it's exactly what it was designed to do.

420 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:54:14pm

re: #399 freetoken

You might be interested to learn that, according to WND's latest expert, the Antichrist is going to be... a moslem!!

Er... no... wouldn't be interested, although not surprised... Late Great Planet Earth... A European... "the pope," I've heard "a black," a this, a that, it's been a hobby of people for about 200 years.

421 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:54:30pm

re: #412 Tigger2005

Lizards with mad building skillz... need some input. My renter bought a metal frame pool, but though my yard is not steeply inclined, it's inclined enough that I have a 20.5" slope in a 16X16' area to deal with. My question is, rather than digging out earth to level it, would it be possible to build a wooden deck that would support a 16' diameter, 4' deep pool filled with water?

Rent a good rototiller.

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:54:46pm

re: #404 Stanley Sea

When people say there is no Palestine, I refer back to Anne Franks' diary where she mentions going to Palestine.

difficult.

The problem there is that people really don't know the history well, and get the idea that there was an independent all-Arab Palestinian nation at some point, which there wasn't. But there was a chunk of land modernly called Palestine, (as opposed to the Roman name of the area) owned most recently by the Brits, and before them the Ottomans.

423 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:55:12pm

re: #413 Dark_Falcon

Ok I get where you're coming from.

424 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:55:13pm

re: #318 Racer X

What Arab Civilization?

Since all of science is based on what went before, as are the majority of civilizations, and using an argument based on the screed you posted, are you willing to admit the US has no civilization of its own?

425 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:55:40pm

re: #418 reine.de.tout

You saw what you wanted to see.

Oh snap.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:55:41pm

re: #410 freetoken

Supposedly the Antichrist is going to be the Islamic Mahdi.

Don't say you weren't warned!

I promise not to blame WND when the Mahdi shows up, and, well, does whatever the Antichrist is supposed to do.

427 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:55:45pm

re: #409 Stanley Sea

Dude, I thought you were linking to a document or something.

That is BS.

That is a typical Arab cartoon. Quite harmless compared to many, in fact.

It's surely BS, but not in the way you mean it.

This is how a large part of the Arab world views Jews and their devilish friends in America.

428 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:56:13pm

re: #412 Tigger2005

Lizards with mad building skillz... need some input. My renter bought a metal frame pool, but though my yard is not steeply inclined, it's inclined enough that I have a 20.5" slope in a 16X16' area to deal with. My question is, rather than digging out earth to level it, would it be possible to build a wooden deck that would support a 16' diameter, 4' deep pool filled with water?

I had the exact same situation once, in the long run, digging out is better, since you will find that this offers a much better support for the pool in general, and give you a semi-built in feel... I don't know about the weight factor on the deck idea... put I opted for the dirt removal... and cheaper... a little bobcat and a dump truck.

429 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:56:37pm

re: #420 Walter L. Newton

Would you go for a black muslim pope as the Antichrist then?

I'm sure the Bilderbergers could pull it off somehow.

430 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:56:44pm

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Fuck Gaza.

They had the choice, after Israel voluntarily ended the "occupation". They chose Hamas and war, overwhelmingly so.

Give the people what they want.

Hamas won the elections, but Palestinians didn't overwhelmingly vote for Hamas. 44.45% did.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Not to say that this election shouldn't have consequences (it did), but the assumption that every Palestinian is a supporter of Hamas seems a big stretch.

431 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:56:48pm

re: #419 ryannon

This is going to generate a ton of negative publicity for the Israelis. A ton. And practically no one is going to understand (or want to understand) the false premise of it all. Or that it's exactly what it was designed to do.

And that is exactly what Hamas Fatah Hezbollah Iran are hoping for.

432 Gus  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:57:03pm

re: #419 ryannon

This is going to generate a ton of negative publicity for the Israelis. A ton. And practically no one is going to understand (or want to understand) the false premise of it all. Or that it's exactly what it was designed to do.

Yes. It's a publicity stunt designed to create a confrontation. I'm sure the Israeli navy will tread lightly.

433 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:57:08pm

re: #411 windsagio

Fearmongering is also not relevant to what we're talking about here, or shouldn't be.

I mean c'mon.

I'm getting behind, but that post was puh.

434 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:57:37pm

re: #424 b_sharp

No.

435 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:57:53pm

re: #403 b_sharp

I don't know about the hate Jews part, I don't know them individually, but I find it difficult to believe that they ,as a group, hate the Jews. Somebody like the KKK and white supremacy groups, yes, but a collection of human rights wanna-bes? I don't think so. As far as believing they are pro-terror because they support Hamas, I'm not sure that is the case either. It is quite possible to support the human rights of a group, despite what their leaders are doing. Would you categorize all the citizens of cold war era USSR as evil Communists because of the ruling tyrants? I wouldn't think so. I do note that the above isn't a solid analogy because Hamas was voted in by (a minority of) Palestinians.

You want a target for your anger and hate, then Hamas is a justifiable and deserving target. I think there is probably a sizable chunk of the Palestinian people who would rather live with the Israelis than kill them but are afraid to speak out. This makes them cowards. But does it make them evil?

If the flotilla is comprised mostly of people against Hamas but in support of those willing to co-exist, would your opinion be the same?

If it was so composed, then there would be no issue: They'd land the ships in Israel and have the Israelis truck the stuff across the boarder.

436 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:57:59pm

re: #433 Stanley Sea

I'm missing alot of posts at this point, its freaking madness!

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #414 lostlakehiker

Saladin wasn't Arab. Khalil Gibran wasn't Arab. [To name two great Muslims]. Suleiman, though not perhaps a good man, was a very effective warrior. He wasn't Arab either. There are indeed great Muslims, and that letter is not bashing the entire history of the Muslim world. But it is fair to note that the Arabs don't deserve all the credit for all those accomplishments of the Muslim world, and most particularly not when the real work was done by conquered and now largely vanished peoples.

The Ottomans would not like being called 'conquered and now largely vanished people'.

If you can't see how stupid that piece of writing is, I'm afraid I can't explain it.

Khalil Gibran wasn't an Arab?

438 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:58:34pm

re: #429 freetoken

Would you go for a black muslim pope as the Antichrist then? I'm sure the Bilderbergers could pull it off somehow.

You know my position on eschatology, rather knowledgeable, but a bunch of mythological bunk... next question :)

439 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:58:40pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

The gocomics link to editorial cartoons from the mideast.

If the link works do some browsing. If its 'forbidden!' sorry >>

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:59:13pm

re: #414 lostlakehiker

Saladin wasn't Arab. Khalil Gibran wasn't Arab. [To name two great Muslims]. Suleiman, though not perhaps a good man, was a very effective warrior. He wasn't Arab either. There are indeed great Muslims, and that letter is not bashing the entire history of the Muslim world. But it is fair to note that the Arabs don't deserve all the credit for all those accomplishments of the Muslim world, and most particularly not when the real work was done by conquered and now largely vanished peoples.

Also, he wasn't a Muslim. Gibran, that is.

441 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:59:18pm

The name "Palestine" was imposed on the region after the Romans overpowered and occupied Judea. It may be ancient but it has no more legitimacy for all that.

442 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 6:59:44pm

re: #319 Cato the Elder

"But they mean well!"

God rot well-meaning tools and idiots.

How many of the rights, privileges and special treatments you enjoy were brought about by well-meaning people?

Tell me the negatives about to be brought about by the people in the flotilla.

443 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:00:10pm

re: #441 Cato the Elder

"North and South America" are illegitimate too, right? After all they were forced upon the are by a German guy.

444 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

That is a typical Arab cartoon. Quite harmless compared to many, in fact.

It's surely BS, but not in the way you mean it.

This is how a large part of the Arab world views Jews and their devilish friends in America.

But Cato, using editorial cartoons as an anti to the other side, isn't really helpful to me.

445 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:00:52pm

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

I hope Ms. Fiorina read and understood that letter, since she is running for the Senate from California.

That letter was a bigoted screed.

446 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:00:55pm

re: #441 Cato the Elder

The name "Palestine" was imposed on the region after the Romans overpowered and occupied Judea. It may be ancient but it has no more legitimacy for all that.

Cato, are you telling me that the names given by your people have no legitimacy?!

447 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:01:10pm

re: #441 Cato the Elder

The name "Palestine" was imposed on the region after the Romans overpowered and occupied Judea. It may be ancient but it has no more legitimacy for all that.

It is my understanding their was no value in most of the land their. It was either desert or swamp. No one wanted it.

448 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:01:27pm

re: #431 Racer X

And that is exactly what Hamas Fatah Hezbollah Iran are hoping for.

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

449 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:01:35pm

re: #442 b_sharp

How many of the rights, privileges and special treatments you enjoy were brought about by well-meaning people?

Tell me the negatives about to be brought about by the people in the flotilla.

Big-time propaganda for terrorists.

450 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:01:58pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

you are joking right?

451 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:02:01pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

Yes.

Not spin.

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:02:23pm

re: #447 Racer X

It is my understanding their was no value in most of the land their. It was either desert or swamp. No one wanted it.

The Zionists drained the Hula Swamps!
Malaria!
Then they realized there were supposed to be swamps there!
So they put them back!
But this time without malaria!

(True story. Early Israeli land management was a little--hectic.)

453 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:02:35pm

re: #436 windsagio

I'm missing alot of posts at this point, its freaking madness!

Solidarity.

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:02:50pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

Iran has ties to both Hezbollah and Hamas.

455 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:02:57pm

re: #447 Racer X

The Romans did.

456 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:03:05pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

Fatah, unclear to me at this time, others may know more.

457 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:03:17pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Its an article faith, lets put it that way.

The problem is clouded by the fact that anti-Israel (or sometimes anti-US) rhetoric is useful in all those places, and everyone takes credit for everything.

458 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:03:34pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Check some of Charles' resources above on the left.

459 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:03:35pm

re: #444 Stanley Sea

But Cato, using editorial cartoons as an anti to the other side, isn't really helpful to me.

I have no idea what that sentence means.

460 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:03:50pm

re: #431 Racer X

And that is exactly what Hamas Fatah Hezbollah Iran are hoping for.

As well as - pardon the expression and bless the memory of Rachel, wherever she may be - a Saint Jellyfish.

461 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:04:26pm

re: #441 Cato the Elder

The name "Palestine" was imposed on the region after the Romans overpowered and occupied Judea. It may be ancient but it has no more legitimacy for all that.

Jeeze, I don't get the denial. It was referred to in well read books for heaven's sakes. Deny that happened?

462 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:04:29pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

Are these people tied to IRAN? Or is that just the latest spin?

Hezbollah, at least, has received a lot of support from Iran since 2006.

463 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:04:44pm

re: #459 Cato the Elder

I have no idea what that sentence means.

oh I think you do...

464 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:05:19pm

re: #461 Stanley Sea

Denying them their identity is part of denying them legitimacy.

I'm not saying they're legitimate (or not) but its a bankrupt tactic.

465 Tigger2005  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:05:34pm

Thanks for the input on the pool, everyone, guess digging is my best option.

466 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:05:47pm

Hamas and Hezbollah would undoubtedly cease to exist without help from Iran.

467 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:05:55pm

Hey, can someone tell me if the cartoon link I put up worked? >> I'd love to post from gocomics but I have no idea if it goes through.

[Link: www.gocomics.com...]

468 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:06:08pm

re: #450 brookly red

you are joking right?

You were answered next post.

469 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:06:11pm

re: #466 Racer X

"Undoubtedly" is a strong word.

470 Digital Display  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:06:17pm

re: #438 Walter L. Newton

You know my position on eschatology, rather knowledgeable, but a bunch of mythological bunk... next question :)


Walter...I have to give you your props...I have never encountered someone that knows the depth of scriptures and is such a good guy...I have poked you in the side a few times..And Hurt your feelings Walter..I am very sorry..
/OK..Now do I at least get to tease you?

471 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:06:24pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the picture I remember. Two Israeli reservists were lynched after driving down the wrong road. Their killers displayed bloody hands to the crowd.

There are others.

I understand how that picture makes you feel, but I see it in a much larger context. Yes, those boys are being ugly and cruel. But they are not all Israelis, any more than a suicide bomber is every Palestinian. This is a conflict. There is pain and suffering on both sides, and bad behavior on both sides.

But ultimately, Israel has acted with more care for the average Palestinian than Hamas shows.

Hamas needs to be removed, by whatever means necessary and the Palestinian people given a chance for self government free of the propaganda and hate so prevalent in their lives now.

Unfortunately the history of the area makes solutions anything but straight forward.

That said, I have no problem with the military removal of Hamas leaders.

472 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:08:00pm

re: #454 SanFranciscoZionist

Iran has ties to both Hezbollah and Hamas.

But SFZ, those folks aren't on the boats are they? They are just in their misinformed way supporting them by going against Israel?

473 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:09:25pm

re: #329 Racer X

Explaining the Arab-Israeli conflict through numbers

What utter nonsense.

474 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:10:05pm

Bottom line for me:

The people currently in control of Palestine - Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah - are a bunch of motherfuckers. They have demonstrated this time and time again. Fuck them sideways.

475 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:10:47pm

re: #466 Racer X

Hamas and Hezbollah would undoubtedly cease to exist without help from Iran.

But are they on the boat? Or is it just Palestinian sympathizers.

Broad brush runs amok (unless we find some $ changing hands I guess)

476 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:11:56pm

re: #239 windsagio

I was originally gonna say 'wanted to kill me', but the car issue is real. Also seemed like a way to lighten the mood some :D

Before you lighten it too much, add 'and half the world agrees with the people in the apartment complex', while the other half of the world is pretty much keeping silent'.

Paranoid much about living in the complex? Too bad you can't really move out. But you'll have our sympathy after you're dead.

477 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:12:04pm

re: #473 b_sharp

What utter nonsense.

Total Joo propaganda.

478 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:12:48pm

re: #473 b_sharp

What utter nonsense.

Which specific statements in that article do you dispute?

479 Racer X  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:13:55pm

BBL

Charles would ban me if I posted how I really feel.

*winking at you WS*

480 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:14:44pm

re: #470 HoosierHoops

Walter...I have to give you your props...I have never encountered someone that knows the depth of scriptures and is such a good guy...I have poked you in the side a few times..And Hurt your feelings Walter..I am very sorry..
/OK..Now do I at least get to tease you?

Shoot.

481 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:14:47pm

re: #479 Racer X

I'll show you mine if you show me yours!

Unless its really crazy neither of us will get banned :D

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:14:50pm

re: #472 Stanley Sea

But SFZ, those folks aren't on the boats are they? They are just in their misinformed way supporting them by going against Israel?

I'm assuming there are probably no Iranian agents on board. That said, this sort of activist ranges from well-meaning, to stupid, to foamingly anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, to, well, ISM.

Some of them are misinformed, and others are just schmucks.

483 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:15:15pm

re: #474 Racer X

The people currently in control of Palestine - Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah - are a bunch of motherfuckers.

I laughed a lot at that. "A bunch of motherfuckers" really caught me by surprise there.

That said, Hezbollah is a Lebanese party. They are not 'in control' of Palestine.

484 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:16:06pm

re: #424 b_sharp

Since all of science is based on what went before, as are the majority of civilizations, and using an argument based on the screed you posted, are you willing to admit the US has no civilization of its own?

To the extent that Americans who win Nobel prizes tend to be immigrants, you might have a point. But it's just not true that essentially all of our achievements are due to outsiders.

Nor do we pretend that all those people are salt of the earth Nebraskans.

485 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:16:10pm

re: #476 ryannon

Before you lighten it too much, add 'and half the world agrees with the people in the apartment complex', while the other half of the world is pretty much keeping silent'.

Paranoid much about living in the complex? Too bad you can't really move out. But you'll have our sympathy after you're dead.

Would the down-dingers care to explain their position on this? Or does the above cut too close to the truth?

486 freetoken  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:16:28pm

re: #478 Cato the Elder

Which specific statements in that article do you dispute?

I for one dispute this:

Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who defend Zionism and Israel: approximately 1.
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who believe in diversity on college campuses: 100

That sounds a whole lot like the 84.7% of all statistics that are made up.

487 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:16:34pm

re: #474 Racer X

Bottom line for me:

The people currently in control of Palestine - Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah - are a bunch of motherfuckers. They have demonstrated this time and time again. Fuck them sideways.

and speaking of Hezbollah, this being Memorial Day weekend I can not think of a better time to condemn them re: the 1983 barracks bombing... I really don't think there is much more to say on the matter.

488 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:17:22pm

re: #485 ryannon

Would the down-dingers care to explain their position on this? Or does the above cut too close to the truth?

My position is Stanley Sea's position, "life is not an all or nothing" and you can just keep on being concerned about my very significant downding, I'm not taking the bait :)

489 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:17:58pm

re: #341 Racer X

Yeah sorry. You're gonna see bias from both sides on this one.

This one may be more relevant.

MYTH: "Jews stole Arab land"

Keep in mind the source.

A lot of that is justification of Arabs not owning the land because they didn't use it. Whether they used it or not is irrelevant, so the upper part of that article can be tossed.

That they sold the land to Jews is the main point and quite valid. That article doesn't go into any detail about the UN hand over. How did that go down?

490 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:18:50pm

re: #445 b_sharp

That letter was a bigoted screed.

Was it in factual error? It was a protest against the empty glorification of "Arab" achievements that were in fact due to now eclipsed victims.

491 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:18:51pm

re: #485 ryannon

Really guys, I'm not getting your butthurt here.

492 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:19:15pm

re: #488 WindUpBird

I should thank someone for drawing my attention to a post I"d missed >>

493 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:19:34pm

re: #488 WindUpBird

My position is Stanley Sea's position, "life is not an all or nothing" and you can just keep on being concerned about my very significant downding, I'm not taking the bait :)

And I reiterate my response to SS: It pretty much is when your neighbors have sworn to exterminate you and actively tried to do that since you moved in.

Screw all this relativism here.

494 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:20:03pm

re: #485 ryannon

Would the down-dingers care to explain their position on this? Or does the above cut too close to the truth?

Personally, that's totally my criterion. When someone's too close to the truth, I downding them. Serves them well!

495 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:20:45pm

re: #494 Nimed


I'm trying desperately not to call people 'fearmongering bigots' or 'racists'.

Downdings are light.

496 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:21:02pm

re: #486 freetoken

That sounds a whole lot like the 84.7% of all statistics that are made up.

It's Dennis Prager, who is NOT EXACTLY RELIABLE and also a sexist slimebag but whatever he's on the right side so he gets to make numbers up, and be tribalist, and make this the dumbest common denominator and hey why don't we bring up the fact that Mohammed fucks little girls because that's really quite helpful and intelligent and also very fair

Dennis Prager at his best and most stupid

497 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:21:42pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

And I reiterate my response to SS: It pretty much is when your neighbors have sworn to exterminate you and actively tried to do that since you moved in.

Screw all this relativism here.

Well shit, let's just kill or be killed, awesome, last one into the apocalypse is a rotten egg

498 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:22:00pm

re: #347 Racer X

And if you really want to have tears stream down your face, read this:

Holocaust Timeline

Then get back to me how the poor Palestinians are being persecuted.

Why would you bring that into it? The Jewish people have been terrorized, abused and murdered for a very long time.

That does not have an impact on how any other group is being treated and how and why we place judgment.

499 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:22:25pm

re: #495 windsagio

I'm trying desperately not to call people 'fearmongering bigots' or 'racists'.

Downdings are light.

You can call me that all you like, and while you're at it, you can shove your starry-eyed idealism and your pig-ignorance about the entire Israel question up your bunghole.

500 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:22:37pm

re: #482 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm assuming there are probably no Iranian agents on board. That said, this sort of activist ranges from well-meaning, to stupid, to foamingly anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, to, well, ISM.

Some of them are misinformed, and others are just schmucks.

It's all a PR problem. Fix it! (Obama and the oil gush) ha

I'm kind of bummed that people here are lumping them with Iran, it's just that extreme broad brush that makes me go huh?

501 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:22:39pm

re: #488 WindUpBird

My position is Stanley Sea's position, "life is not an all or nothing" and you can just keep on being concerned about my very significant downding, I'm not taking the bait :)

That doesn't mean shit to me. We're talking about the symbolic rendering of a situation, that of Israel's. I simply brought it closer into focus. Is the reality of that possibility so disturbing to you that you have to criticize it?

But like you say, don't take the bait.

And thanks for your very cogent explanation on how your position is Stanley Sea's position.

502 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:24:14pm

More of Dennis Prager being very very conservative and awesome oh yeah and also racist

Seriously. Dennis Prager. What a winner. What a home run king.

503 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:24:24pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

Another hallmark of a second rate mind is confusing emotional force for knowledge.

504 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:24:30pm

re: #501 ryannon

That doesn't mean shit to me. We're talking about the symbolic rendering of a situation, that of Israel's. I simply brought it closer into focus. Is the reality of that possibility so disturbing to you that you have to criticize it?

But like you say, don't take the bait.

And thanks for your very cogent explanation on how your position is Stanley Sea's position.

Dennis Prager.

L

O


L

505 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:25:06pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

You can call me that all you like, and while you're at it, you can shove your starry-eyed idealism and your pig-ignorance about the entire Israel question up your bunghole.

With no TP for it either, Cornholio!

506 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:26:05pm

re: #503 windsagio

Another hallmark of a second rate mind is confusing emotional force for knowledge.

And yet another is not knowing which preposition to use when.

507 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:26:40pm

re: #504 WindUpBird

Dennis Prager.

L

O

L

It's interesting to see all the little relativists come creeping out of the woodwork on this issue. Ugh.

508 brookly red  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:27:06pm

re: #495 windsagio

I'm trying desperately not to call people 'fearmongering bigots' or 'racists'.

Downdings are light.

I am speechless... you have terrorists on one hand and 'fearmongering bigots' on the other? Real people are really being killed & you come up with fearmongering? OK whatever.

509 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:27:21pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

And I reiterate my response to SS: It pretty much is when your neighbors have sworn to exterminate you and actively tried to do that since you moved in.

Screw all this relativism here.

But Cato, I look at it as individuals, like me here in California.

You look at it as leaders who were elected with 49% or whatever of the vote as representing the thoughts of everyone. Bullshit.

I have hope, you don't.

510 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:27:43pm

re: #507 ryannon

It's interesting to see all the little relativists come creeping out of the woodwork on this issue. Ugh.

Too close to the truth again! Please, try to control yourself.

511 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:27:57pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to end a war. Just make sure you vilify the right people.

Groups like Hamas, who propagate hate, are the ones to be despised.

512 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:28:47pm

re: #509 Stanley Sea

But Cato, I look at it as individuals, like me here in California.

You look at it as leaders who were elected with 49% or whatever of the vote as representing the thoughts of everyone. Bullshit.

I have hope, you don't.

I have every hope that Israel will continue to defend itself and its citizens against well-meaning asshole propagandists for terror.

513 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:28:54pm

re: #437 SanFranciscoZionist

The Ottomans would not like being called 'conquered and now largely vanished people'.

If you can't see how stupid that piece of writing is, I'm afraid I can't explain it.

Khalil Gibran wasn't an Arab?

He was Persian.

514 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:28:55pm

re: #506 Cato the Elder

The best you can do is grammar? We've been over this!

515 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:29:32pm

re: #507 ryannon

It's interesting to see all the little relativists come creeping out of the woodwork on this issue. Ugh.

re: #510 Nimed

Too close to the truth again! Please, try to control yourself.

Hu... That was ironical. Nobody has resorted to a single argument based on cultural relativism.

516 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:30:56pm

re: #509 Stanley Sea

But Cato, I look at it as individuals, like me here in California.

You look at it as leaders who were elected with 49% or whatever of the vote as representing the thoughts of everyone. Bullshit.

I have hope, you don't.

Cato looks at the reality... like I do, see my post re: #396 Walter L. Newton

517 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:31:41pm

re: #513 lostlakehiker

He was Persian.

Amusing distinction, considering that Iran has been lumped with the Arabs in the thread so far.

518 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:33:40pm

re: #364 reine.de.tout

I said 'rarely'.
And the anti-Israel propaganda is better publicized than pro-Israel propaganda.

Yes it is.

Israel is looked at as the bad guy here. I think I made an attempt at an explanation a few threads back.

The best way to counter that is not to vilify the Palestinians, but to publicize everything Israel is doing to help the Palestinians despite the attacks. Reduce the appearance of Palestinians as victims and increase the appearance of Israelis as heroes.

Just make sure the information is accurate.

519 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:33:51pm

Some of you guys are up past your bedtimes.

520 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:34:36pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Oh come on... most of the United States government is controlled by the pro-Israel lobby... you know that.

But the government doesn't control the media. Do they?

521 Olsonist  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:35:55pm

re: #513 lostlakehiker

He was Persian.

That would be news to him. He thought he was Christian Maronite Lebanese who moved to Brooklyn but, hey, what did he know?

522 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:38:30pm

re: #521 Olsonist

That would be news to him. He thought he was Christian Maronite Lebanese who moved to Brooklyn but, hey, what did he know?

Yes indeed. He wasn't Persian. He's Arabic.

The mistake seems to be that he was mistakenly called "Gibran the Persian" by a critic and it stuck.

523 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:39:08pm

re: #520 b_sharp

But the government doesn't control the media. Do they?

Gibbs Scolds Reporter: You're Asking Too Many BP Questions

[Link: www.sodahead.com...]

Duh?

524 ryannon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:39:21pm

re: #515 Nimed

Hu... That was ironical. Nobody has resorted to a single argument based on cultural relativism.

I guess I didn't catch your irony.

I was still trying to find some sort of logic or intelligence in "Life is not an all or nothing."

But maybe that was supposed to be ironic as well.

525 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:40:53pm

re: #390 Cato the Elder

This is the standard Arab view of Israel and America.

Nothing to see there, right? Move along.

Given the amount of support given Israel by the various US governments, is that image that far wrong?

Even more importantly, that really doesn't help your argument. That looks no different than thousands of political cartoons drawn in dozens of countries.

526 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:43:06pm

re: #525 b_sharp

Given the amount of support given Israel by the various US governments, is that image that far wrong?

Even more importantly, that really doesn't help your argument. That looks no different than thousands of political cartoons drawn in dozens of countries.

Really... you think the image of Obama in the middle east is the House "N* word?" That's interesting.

527 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:43:50pm

re: #391 Dark_Falcon

It's not an extreme stretch, given the Pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic attitudes held by the overwhelming majority of Arabs.

OK, I'm willing to learn. How do you know Pro-Nazi attitudes are held by the majority? How do you know anti_Semitic attitudes are held by the majority?

And no, the 'self evident' argument isn't enough, it's nothing more than a cop-out.

528 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:45:56pm

re: #525 b_sharp

Given the amount of support given Israel by the various US governments, is that image that far wrong?

Even more importantly, that really doesn't help your argument. That looks no different than thousands of political cartoons drawn in dozens of countries.

Congratulations on your defense of a virulently anti-Semitic cartoon that shows "the Jew" sitting at a restaurant table with a menu displaying the entire Arab world as a culinary treat to be gobbled up by Israel while Obama the black waiter makes helpful suggestions. Yeah, that's really close to reality. Israel is going to scarf up the whole Middle East with America's help.

I can't quite believe you just said that.

529 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:47:01pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

You dare to cry "racism" in the face of pandemic Arab Jew-hatred?

Yes.

One does not excuse the other.

530 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:47:25pm

re: #524 ryannon

I guess I didn't catch your irony.

I was still trying to find some sort of logic or intelligence in "Life is not an all or nothing."

But maybe that was supposed to be ironic as well.

I don't know what Stanley and WUB meant by that. But, considering that none of them had presented a relativistic argument so far, interpreting the phrase as "all the little relativists creeping out of the woodwork" is, well, uncharitable at best.

531 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:48:36pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pretty sure I know who's on the flotilla. They are not part of the solution.

I never assumed they were. I do believe the whole exercise is a non-event.

532 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:49:33pm

re: #412 Tigger2005

Lizards with mad building skillz... need some input. My renter bought a metal frame pool, but though my yard is not steeply inclined, it's inclined enough that I have a 20.5" slope in a 16X16' area to deal with. My question is, rather than digging out earth to level it, would it be possible to build a wooden deck that would support a 16' diameter, 4' deep pool filled with water?

Sand.

533 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:52:45pm

re: #434 Racer X

No.

Good.

I wouldn't either.

534 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:53:54pm

re: #495 windsagio

I'm trying desperately not to call people 'fearmongering bigots' or 'racists'.

Downdings are light.

You may not be aware that the Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler were friends. They had great admiration for each other. The story is documented here

[Link: www.palestinefacts.org...]

and in many places on the net along with a vast amount of pictures of the Grand Mufti inspecting the SS. Here is one.

Image: Mufti-Nazi.jpg

535 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:54:16pm

re: #446 SanFranciscoZionist

Cato, are you telling me that the names given by your people have no legitimacy?!

You really are a terrific woman.

536 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:54:37pm

re: #447 Racer X

It is my understanding their was no value in most of the land their. It was either desert or swamp. No one wanted it.

So what?

537 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:54:59pm

re: #534 marjoriemoon

Not terribly relevant.

Interesting tho'!

538 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:55:31pm

Seriously WTF is with people spreading poison into new threads?

Is it really that hard to step away from your rage?

539 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:56:12pm

re: #449 Cato the Elder

Big-time propaganda for terrorists.

Then counter the propaganda. Just saying they are evil terror loving tools does absolutely nothing to help.

540 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:56:45pm

re: #538 windsagio

Seriously WTF is with people spreading poison into new threads?

Is it really that hard to step away from your rage?

Fuck you.

541 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:57:23pm

re: #537 windsagio

Not terribly relevant.

Interesting tho'!

Didn't you make a comment upthread about Cato's statement how the "Arab world tolerates Nazi-style propaganda"? It is Nazi style because that's where they learned it and I directed you, once again, to history that you most likely will not read.

542 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:58:20pm

re: #527 b_sharp

OK, I'm willing to learn. How do you know Pro-Nazi attitudes are held by the majority? How do you know anti_Semitic attitudes are held by the majority?

And no, the 'self evident' argument isn't enough, it's nothing more than a cop-out.

I'd point to the polls done since 9/11 where Arabs routinely deny the Holocaust and deny Israel's legitimacy.

543 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:58:36pm

re: #477 Racer X

Total Joo propaganda.

Don't be a bigger asshole than you can handle.

544 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:58:46pm

re: #541 marjoriemoon

Oh you were replying to THAT!

It was DF not Cato.

I get it now.

545 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:59:03pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

The ol' Mandymanners, Eh Cato?

546 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 7:59:59pm

re: #545 windsagio

The ol' Mandymanners, Eh Cato?

Go shit up a ladder.

547 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:03:08pm

re: #544 windsagio

Oh you were replying to THAT!

It was DF not Cato.

I get it now.

I hope I did not offend.

548 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:03:13pm

re: #478 Cato the Elder

Which specific statements in that article do you dispute?

You mean aside from the idea that throwing around contextless numbers has any meaning whatsoever?

How about you tell me what information that gives us about the conflict?

549 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:03:29pm

re: #538 windsagio

Seriously WTF is with people spreading poison into new threads?

Is it really that hard to step away from your rage?

I really don't know, but apparently some people were eager to jump on it. I actually agree that the defense of that cartoon is unconvincing, but I expected the general attitudes to be a little better than this.

550 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:04:27pm

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

Oh no.

Not at all >>

I was just sitting here deciding if I wanted to say anything else.

I suspect at this point, I"m not gonna improve the situation no matter what, so I'm gonna go do some game practice instead >>

551 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:05:14pm

re: #484 lostlakehiker

To the extent that Americans who win Nobel prizes tend to be immigrants, you might have a point. But it's just not true that essentially all of our achievements are due to outsiders.

Nor do we pretend that all those people are salt of the earth Nebraskans.

I was saying the screed referred to was nonsense. This was my way of getting Racer to see that.

552 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:06:09pm

re: #550 windsagio

Oh no.

Not at all >>

I was just sitting here deciding if I wanted to say anything else.

I suspect at this point, I"m not gonna improve the situation no matter what, so I'm gonna go do some game practice instead >>

Have a good evening, Wind.

553 windsagio  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:06:42pm

re: #552 Dark_Falcon

:D

Yer nice to me, I like that ;)

Peaces!

554 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:07:09pm

When I see anti-Semitic poison being defended by idiots here on an almost-dead thread, I'm damn well going to post about it on the current one. If that's me "spreading poison", I'll do it every time.

555 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #545 windsagio

re: #554 Cato the Elder

The Mandy reference was stupid, the accusation of anti-semitism is stupid, and this dialogue is getting worse by the minute.

556 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:10:29pm

re: #544 windsagio

Oh you were replying to THAT!

It was DF not Cato.

I get it now.

Well it started with Cato here. And your response to a similar post here and it went on from there.

You're a smart person. I don't know why you have a block with Israel. I really urge you to do some reading. I think you'll come to a different prospective.

557 Daniel Ballard  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:10:30pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

I would appreciate a pause just long enough to prove the batteries are working etc. on all those BOP devices. The generator overspeed devices work. Etc Etc. Well run, its a necessary good thing. Anything short of that and we get what we got.

558 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:10:37pm

re: #555 Nimed

re: #554 Cato the Elder

The Mandy reference was stupid, the accusation of anti-semitism is stupid, and this dialogue is getting worse by the minute.

You're saying that cartoon is not anti-Semitic?

Interesting.

559 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:10:52pm

re: #556 marjoriemoon

Well it started with Cato here. And your response to a similar post here and it went on from there.

You're a smart person. I don't know why you have a block with Israel. I really urge you to do some reading. I think you'll come to a different prospective.

err... perspective.

560 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:11:02pm

re: #554 Cato the Elder

When I see anti-Semitic poison being defended by idiots here on an almost-dead thread, I'm damn well going to post about it on the current one. If that's me "spreading poison", I'll do it every time.

Cato, it is not anti-Semitic to question what the hell is going on, from both sides.

It really fucks up the conversation, however it is, when that is thrown out. It's a horrible slur for horrible people. Not to be used randomly to those who just fucking question the situ.

561 Ben Jhazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:13:54pm

Crikey. And I thought the religion topic downstairs was heated...

562 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:14:48pm

re: #560 Stanley Sea

Cato, it is not anti-Semitic to question what the hell is going on, from both sides.

It really fucks up the conversation, however it is, when that is thrown out. It's a horrible slur for horrible people. Not to be used randomly to those who just fucking question the situ.

Where did I accuse anyone here of anti-Semitism?

I accused the Arab world as a whole of being infected with virulent anti-Semitic propaganda, and I stand by that statement and can prove it. And I accuse certain people here of minimizing that and even defending anti-Semitic images as "accurate".

And again, are you speaking some new dialect tonight? I have no idea what "question the situ" means.

563 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:15:47pm

re: #523 Walter L. Newton

Gibbs Scolds Reporter: You're Asking Too Many BP Questions

[Link: www.sodahead.com...]

Duh?

Did it stop them from asking questions? Duh.

I'd like to see the context here, right wing news is known to be a little, um... less than honest with their quotes at times.

564 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:16:28pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

You're saying that cartoon is not anti-Semitic?

Interesting.

Sorry, I'm happy to retract that. The cartoon is clearly both racist and anti-Semitic. The "defense by idiots" part (I only read b_sharp's defense, and I disagree with it) is wrong, though.

565 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:18:04pm

re: #560 Stanley Sea

Te be fair, Cato 'only' accused people of being idiots.

566 McSpiff  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:18:07pm

re: #562 Cato the Elder

Err, you aren't saying that defending anti-Semitic imagery is on some level itself anti-Semitic? Because I will if you don't want to.

567 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:19:27pm

re: #526 Walter L. Newton

Really... you think the image of Obama in the middle east is the House "N* word?" That's interesting.

I see, you see racism in that cartoon. I didn't see that. What I did see was the leader of one country playing subservient to another.

You have information that cartoon depiction was intended to be racist?

568 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:19:43pm

re: #562 Cato the Elder

You may not know this, but I love ya, so peace before the conflict ok?

OK, when you claim we are idiots defending anti-semitic shit, I take it personally, that any questioning is therefore anti-Semitic. It's slippery.

question the situ, is question the situation.

569 Spare O'Lake  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:20:20pm

re: #538 windsagio

Seriously WTF is with people spreading poison into new threads?

Is it really that hard to step away from your rage?

Your mask is slipping, shithead.

570 McSpiff  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:22:44pm

re: #569 Spare O'Lake

Insightful post. Glad you could rise above the fray and discus the heart of the issue.

571 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:23:18pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Congratulations on your defense of a virulently anti-Semitic cartoon that shows "the Jew" sitting at a restaurant table with a menu displaying the entire Arab world as a culinary treat to be gobbled up by Israel while Obama the black waiter makes helpful suggestions. Yeah, that's really close to reality. Israel is going to scarf up the whole Middle East with America's help.

I can't quite believe you just said that.

You are right, I didn't look closely enough. I didn't notice the map on the front of the menu. I also took Obama as the leader of the US, not a black leader of the US.

572 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:23:52pm

It is really important to assume good faith in sensitive topics. SanFranZ and reine didn't have a problem with this.

573 Cato the Elder  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:27:53pm

re: #568 Stanley Sea

You may not know this, but I love ya, so peace before the conflict ok?

OK, when you claim we are idiots defending anti-semitic shit, I take it personally, that any questioning is therefore anti-Semitic. It's slippery.

question the situ, is question the situation.

The specific idiots know who they are, and you are not one of them.

I figured "situ" was "situation", but I don't know what it means to question a situation in this case.

People are always moaning about how "complex" the Israeli-Arab-Muslim conflict is, but I don't think that's the case.

It's one of the plainest, clearest situations on the planet.

Most Arabs want Israel destroyed and every single Jew, man, woman, and child, either dead (for preference) or exiled.

I don't agree with that, and neither does America, and I'm right. That's pretty much the end of the story.

574 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:28:25pm

re: #572 Nimed

It is really important to assume good faith in sensitive topics. SanFranZ and reine didn't have a problem with this.

It's often tough to do so when the topic is Israel. Many of those who defame her do so in bad faith. There are so many liars, many of her defenders have a hair trigger.

575 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:28:30pm

re: #570 McSpiff

Insightful post. Glad you could rise above the fray and discus the heart of the issue.

EXACTLY.

this is how I'm supposed to get my opinions clear?

576 McSpiff  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:31:53pm

re: #574 Dark_Falcon

It's often tough to do so when the topic is Israel. Many of those who defame her do so in bad faith. There are so many liars, many of her defenders have a hair trigger.

Exactly. Its also much harder to pass off racism as valid political satire for most countries.

577 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:33:09pm

re: #573 Cato the Elder

Well there ya have it!

I think the complication enters when trying to figure out how to reach peace, not only in Israel.

At any rate, the caricatures on that cartoon were screamingly blatant. Maybe some folks didn't look closely enough or they're tired or something?? (I'm trying to reach here.)

578 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:36:14pm

re: #542 Dark_Falcon

I'd point to the polls done since 9/11 where Arabs routinely deny the Holocaust and deny Israel's legitimacy.

I performed a quick Google and the first one I found was this site.

It appears Holocaust denial is on the increase as is anti-Israel sentiment.
Denial went from 28% to 40.5%, in three years and pro-Israel sentiment went from 65.6% to 53.7% in just seven years.

Even the acceptance of using violence went up from 5.4% to 12.6%.

These numbers actually back my argument up, but they look to be headed your way. That is not good. This conflict may be getting farther away from resolution rather than nearer.

579 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:42:48pm

re: #572 Nimed

It is really important to assume good faith in sensitive topics. SanFranZ and reine didn't have a problem with this.

Absolutely, it's important to assume good faith!

Some people are knowledgeable about and have been keeping themselves informed about situations for so long, it's easy, I think, to forget that it's necessary to have patience with those seeking information, and give as full an explanation as possible.

Short little "sound-bite" sorts of insults thrown around aren't going to inform anyone, just make everybody defensive and then the entire conversation goes to hell.

580 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:43:12pm

re: #578 b_sharp

I performed a quick Google and the first one I found was this site.

It appears Holocaust denial is on the increase as is anti-Israel sentiment.
Denial went from 28% to 40.5%, in three years and pro-Israel sentiment went from 65.6% to 53.7% in just seven years.

Even the acceptance of using violence went up from 5.4% to 12.6%.

These numbers actually back my argument up, but they look to be headed your way. That is not good. This conflict may be getting farther away from resolution rather than nearer.

Thank you for that honest analysis. I greatly appreciate it. Sorry I could do it, but I'm coughing a lot tonight.

581 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:46:16pm

re: #580 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for that honest analysis. I greatly appreciate it. Sorry I couldn't do it, but I'm coughing a lot tonight.

PIMF

582 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:46:20pm

re: #580 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for that honest analysis. I greatly appreciate it. Sorry I could do it, but I'm coughing a lot tonight.

D_F, I'm always willing to change my mind if the evidence is there. All I expect from others is the same.

You have shown yourself to be an honest, honourable person.

Take care of yourself.

583 prairiefire  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:47:34pm

re: #563 b_sharp

Did it stop them from asking questions? Duh.

I'd like to see the context here, right wing news is known to be a little, um... less than honest with their quotes at times.

Ann Compton from ABC said it was not unusual for a WH press secretary to speak to reporters about the nature of their questioning. She said she had received several phone calls from Ari Fleisher regarding how she was presenting the Bush White House. He was not telling her what to report, only suggesting her line of reasoning was not going where the WH intended.
Ann Compton was not part of the group that Gibbs called in. She said she could see Gibbs' point, as the previous press talk was many repeated questions.

584 Nimed  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:47:37pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

Absolutely, it's important to assume good faith!

Some people are knowledgeable about and have been keeping themselves informed about situations for so long, it's easy, I think, to forget that it's necessary to have patience with those seeking information, and give as full an explanation as possible.

Short little "sound-bite" sorts of insults thrown around aren't going to inform anyone, just make everybody defensive and then the entire conversation goes to hell.

:)
If I may...
(reine)

585 McSpiff  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:50:20pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

Ya well, you know what?

…You're pretty darn awesome :-)

586 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:52:19pm

re: #584 Nimed

re: #585 McSpiff

Aw.
*blush*
*while clutching pearls*

{nimed}
{mcspiff}

587 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 9:00:44pm

re: #578 b_sharp

I performed a quick Google and the first one I found was this site.

It appears Holocaust denial is on the increase as is anti-Israel sentiment.
Denial went from 28% to 40.5%, in three years and pro-Israel sentiment went from 65.6% to 53.7% in just seven years.

Even the acceptance of using violence went up from 5.4% to 12.6%.

These numbers actually back my argument up, but they look to be headed your way. That is not good. This conflict may be getting farther away from resolution rather than nearer.

The second infitada in 2000 is to blame for the rise in anti-Semitism over the last 10 years. First in Europe, then here in the states. The lies spread about Israel during this most recent period is the reason.

That's why I get upset when I hear propaganda about Israel. I'm saying this as a general statement, not specifically directed at you. It's not new, the propaganda. It's as old as the blood libel. But every time it comes up, it's our obligation to shoot it down especially now we have the mechanism (the internet) to set the history straight.

588 Stanghazi  Sun, May 30, 2010 9:08:24pm

re: #587 marjoriemoon

The second infitada in 2000 is to blame for the rise in anti-Semitism over the last 10 years. First in Europe, then here in the states. The lies spread about Israel during this most recent period is the reason.

That's why I get upset when I hear propaganda about Israel. I'm saying this as a general statement, not specifically directed at you. It's not new, the propaganda. It's as old as the blood libel. But every time it comes up, it's our obligation to shoot it down especially now we have the mechanism (the internet) to set the history straight.

MM, they have to get a hold of the propganda then. Just over the twitter feed:

#
# Breaking News BreakingNews

Turkey's NTV reports 2 killed, 30 hurt in clash at sea between Israeli Navy, pro-Palestinian supporters [Link: bit.ly...]

589 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 9:15:49pm

re: #588 Stanley Sea

MM, they have to get a hold of the propganda then. Just over the twitter feed:

#
# Breaking News BreakingNews

Turkey's NTV reports 2 killed, 30 hurt in clash at sea between Israeli Navy, pro-Palestinian supporters [Link: bit.ly...]

Oh crap.

590 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Sun, May 30, 2010 9:23:22pm

re: #587 marjoriemoon

The second infitada in 2000 is to blame for the rise in anti-Semitism over the last 10 years. First in Europe, then here in the states. The lies spread about Israel during this most recent period is the reason.

That's why I get upset when I hear propaganda about Israel. I'm saying this as a general statement, not specifically directed at you. It's not new, the propaganda. It's as old as the blood libel. But every time it comes up, it's our obligation to shoot it down especially now we have the mechanism (the internet) to set the history straight.

I understand and appreciate the point.

I wasn't trying to spread any lies or propaganda about Israel. I was trying to get people to let go of their single minded view of what is going on and instead of spewing unreasoned hate, promote practical methods of message control with the understanding that many Palestinians can be reached.

Nowhere in this thread have I supported Hamas, terror or Antisemitism.

591 What, me worry?  Sun, May 30, 2010 9:55:21pm

re: #590 b_sharp

I understand and appreciate the point.

I wasn't trying to spread any lies or propaganda about Israel. I was trying to get people to let go of their single minded view of what is going on and instead of spewing unreasoned hate, promote practical methods of message control with the understanding that many Palestinians can be reached.

Nowhere in this thread have I supported Hamas, terror or Antisemitism.

Well that isn't like you to do that, so I think it may have been a misunderstanding. I'll just chock it up in my head that way, anyway.

Israel does message control by providing them with aid, with electricity, fuel, medical aide/hospitalization. Many things that no one recognizes because of the lies and propaganda against Israel. Yet, Israel continues to keep doing it and let the chips fall where they fall. The truth is the truth.

592 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 30, 2010 11:24:44pm

re: #513 lostlakehiker

He was Persian.

Really? What the hell was his whole family doing in Lebanon being Christians, then?

593 ryannon  Mon, May 31, 2010 5:26:56am

re: #507 ryannon

It's interesting to see all the little relativists enablers and apologists come creeping out of the woodwork on this issue. Ugh.

Fixed.


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