Overnight Open Thread
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Your true task has just begun, and you may not know in your life if you have succeeded in it, but only if you fail.
— Peter Beagle, The Last Unicorn
620 comments
2 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 10:53:14pm |
| 3 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, May 30, 2010 10:53:22pm |
YOU SEE THAT NAME?!1 CHUCKIE JUST PROVED HE BELIEVES IN UNICORNS!!1
/Stalker Blog
| 4 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 10:53:40pm |
let's see what's in the liquor cabinet.
Wonder if there's anything on the satellite tonight, and what they have in the fridge here.
| 5 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 10:55:57pm |
Oh! Hi, guys! no, i wasn't looting the place - just looking around, is all. Honest.
| 6 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 10:57:52pm |
re: #5 Guanxi88
Oh! Hi, guys! no, i wasn't looting the place - just looking around, is all. Honest.
You best be steppin' away from the booze now, ya hear?
| 7 |
Bagua Sun, May 30, 2010 10:58:34pm |
The BP Public Relations team is reported to be inconsolably depressed. Perhaps reflecting this mood, they released a revised logo in an attempt to show they understand the public's mood.
BP
Image: 1275282711648.jpg
Bringing Oil To America's Shores.
| 8 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 10:59:31pm |
re: #6 JasonA
You best be steppin' away from the booze now, ya hear?
Just admiring the collection, is all.... Honest.
(Slinks back to his hovel, clutching bottle of thunderbird and snuffbox to console him, ruing his bad luck)
| 9 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:00:35pm |
Does the fact that I just heard gunshots outside my apartment give me some king of street cred?
Because I can use some street cred.
| 10 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:01:13pm |
re: #9 Soap_Man
Does the fact that I just heard gunshots outside my apartment give me some
kingkind of street cred?Because I can use some street cred.
PIMF
| 11 |
Kragarghazi Sun, May 30, 2010 11:01:45pm |
The Last Unicorn?
BUT I DIDN'T GET MINE YET!
| 12 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 30, 2010 11:01:58pm |
re: #9 Soap_Man
Does the fact that I just heard gunshots outside my apartment give me some king of street cred?
Because I can use some street cred.
Hell, I just heard gunshots earlier when I was walking home from the store.
Sure, you get street cred. Me too.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, May 30, 2010 11:02:04pm |
re: #9 Soap_Man
Does the fact that I just heard gunshots outside my apartment give me some king of street cred?
Because I can use some street cred.
No, it just means be careful and call the cops.
| 15 |
Kragarghazi Sun, May 30, 2010 11:03:15pm |
I used to hear artillery at my old place. Does that count?
| 16 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:03:28pm |
"We did not attack any boat, we merely fulfill the Israeli government's decision to prevent anyone from going into the Gaza strip without coordinating with Israel,"a statement from the Israeli military said.
"The flotilla is a provocation made to de-legitimize Israel. Had they really wanted to deliver the cargo into Gaza they could have done so via Israel as it is done on a daily basis."
| 17 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:03:31pm |
re: #9 Soap_Man
I had street cred years ago...and moved out. Stay safe!
| 18 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:04:52pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
No, it just means be careful and call the cops.
I did. I was walking home and I saw these three guys standing on the street like they were looking for something, or maybe expecting something to happen. I got upstairs, heard some yelling followed by four *pops* and squeeling tires.
Called the cops, but the patrol guys probably just did a drive-by.
| 20 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:05:19pm |
Business as usual with some Huffington Post commentators. They revert rather quickly with the usual rhetoric.
Interesting to see them supporting a terrorist, homophobic and sexist state of Palestine. It's like they're cheering for a mini-Iran.
| 21 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:06:37pm |
re: #20 Gus 802
Business as usual with some Huffington Post commentators. They revert rather quickly with the usual rhetoric.
Interesting to see them supporting a terrorist, homophobic and sexist state of Palestine. It's like they're cheering for a mini-Iran.
The Kos comments are pretty anti-Israel tonight, too.
| 22 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:07:06pm |
re: #18 Soap_Man
Sounds familiar. I used to life live in a "drive by" neighborhood. Glad you're OK.
| 23 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:07:57pm |
| 26 |
Nimed Sun, May 30, 2010 11:11:54pm |
re: #20 Gus 802
Business as usual with some Huffington Post commentators. They revert rather quickly with the usual rhetoric.
Interesting to see them supporting a terrorist, homophobic and sexist state of Palestine. It's like they're cheering for a mini-Iran.
I took a look earlier today. HuffPo's threads are bad enough even when you agree with most commenters. On something like this, you're just torturing yourself.
| 27 |
Silvergirl Sun, May 30, 2010 11:12:00pm |
re: #7 Bagua
The BP Public Relations team is reported to be inconsolably depressed. Perhaps reflecting this mood, they released a revised logo in an attempt to show they understand the public's mood.
BP
Image: 1275282711648.jpg
Bringing Oil To America's Shores.
That elicits some pretty creepy feelings for me. Such an iconic photo to use. *shudder*
| 28 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:12:15pm |
re: #22 Irenicum
Sounds familiar. I used to life live in a "drive by" neighborhood. Glad you're OK.
Thanks. It's hot here in Chicago tonight. Shootings go up when it starts getting warm. People setting scores that built up over the winter I suppose.
| 29 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:12:57pm |
| 31 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:14:22pm |
Caveat. I rarely read comments at either site and rarely visit Kos.
| 32 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, May 30, 2010 11:14:43pm |
re: #21 JasonA
The Kos comments are pretty anti-Israel tonight, too.
No surprise. The left is going to go wild with hate over this.
| 33 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:14:55pm |
| 34 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:16:25pm |
As I said last night, the far left and the far right both have their anti Israel, anti Jewish mojo going on. I happen to oppose the current Israeli government. Bibi is not my idea of a good Israeli leader. I'm pretty far to the left in Israeli politics. But the Labor party is pretty much dead nowadays. A sad situation overall. I hope it gets better.
| 35 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, May 30, 2010 11:17:26pm |
re: #28 Soap_Man
Thanks. It's hot here in Chicago tonight. Shootings go up when it starts getting warm. People setting scores that built up over the winter I suppose.
Yeah, that's true. Plus the heat makes people crazy.
| 36 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:19:46pm |
re: #28 Soap_Man
I love Chi-town, but I know it can get rough. I have friends who live in the neighborhoods you describe. Strangely enough I miss the energy of living in the midst of the craziness. Yet I'm glad I live in a safe place.
| 37 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 11:20:46pm |
re: #35 Dark_Falcon
Yeah, that's true. Plus the heat makes people crazy.
Heat'll do that. Throw a bit of alcohol into the mix, and there you go....
| 38 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:20:48pm |
re: #32 Dark_Falcon
No surprise. The left is going to go wild with hate over this.
A lot of the anti-Israel comments are from HuffPo "Super Users." Which makes me ask what the hell makes someone a Super User.
| 39 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 30, 2010 11:21:23pm |
re: #34 Irenicum
As I said last night, the far left and the far right both have their anti Israel, anti Jewish mojo going on. I happen to oppose the current Israeli government. Bibi is not my idea of a good Israeli leader. I'm pretty far to the left in Israeli politics. But the Labor party is pretty much dead nowadays. A sad situation overall. I hope it gets better.
Israeli politics is like English weather. If you don't like it, wait ten minutes.
:)
| 40 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:22:05pm |
re: #36 Irenicum
I love Chi-town, but I know it can get rough. I have friends who live in the neighborhoods you describe. Strangely enough I miss the energy of living in the midst of the craziness. Yet I'm glad I live in a safe place.
True. But I'm getting too old for this shit. Living in sketchy neighborhoods used to be exciting in a strange way. Now they are just a pain in the ass.
| 41 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 11:22:09pm |
re: #38 Soap_Man
A lot of the anti-Israel comments are from HuffPo "Super Users." Which makes me ask what the hell makes someone a Super User.
Compulsive posters who link to their facebook or twitter account.
| 42 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:22:20pm |
re: #38 Soap_Man
A lot of the anti-Israel comments are from HuffPo "Super Users." Which makes me ask what the hell makes someone a Super User.
They've gotten weird with all those badges. They remind me of XBox achievements.
| 43 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:22:57pm |
re: #39 SanFranciscoZionist
Seriously! That's a good part of what I love so much about Israeli politics. The diversity rocks my world.
| 44 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:24:16pm |
re: #41 Guanxi88
Compulsive posters who link to their facebook or twitter account.
Hmm. Okay. For a little bit there I thought it was a formula based on how often they quote Karl Marx.
| 45 |
Guanxi88 Sun, May 30, 2010 11:24:41pm |
Think i'm gonna finish watching Mad Max and call it a night.
Best wishes to all present, and even to those who can't be here tonight.
| 46 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:24:48pm |
re: #40 Soap_Man
Understand your point. Being safe is a good thing.
| 47 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, May 30, 2010 11:25:02pm |
re: #38 Soap_Man
A lot of the anti-Israel comments are from HuffPo "Super Users." Which makes me ask what the hell makes someone a Super User.
An unwavering commitment to the left's party line.
Goodnight, all.
| 50 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:27:27pm |
Okay, I just read that Cynthia McKinney was on one of those ships. Heh.
Don't know if it's accurate, though.
| 53 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:28:49pm |
| 56 |
Nimed Sun, May 30, 2010 11:30:01pm |
| 57 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 30, 2010 11:30:22pm |
re: #43 Irenicum
Seriously! That's a good part of what I love so much about Israeli politics. The diversity rocks my world.
Sometimes it can be exasperating. Do the Hair-Covering, Cat-Owning, Knitting Women Between 30 And 45 Of Gush Etzion really need their own political party? And if so, WHY?
But yeah, it's interesting. Hard to follow, though. American politics spoils you for this sort of thing, you don't get used to thinking with so many balls in the air.
| 58 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:30:30pm |
Kind of a messy translation:
On - according to the report, hundreds of IDF fighters were in the morning at the same time on some ships. They encountered armed protesters on board with iron bars, wooden clubs and knives. The report says that some participants tried to snatch the weapon of the IDF. The IDF Spokesman added that the fighters was clear evidence that some rally participants "were planning to lynch combatants."
[Link: www.glz.co.il...]
| 59 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 30, 2010 11:31:57pm |
re: #50 JasonA
Okay, I just read that Cynthia McKinney was on one of those ships. Heh.
Don't know if it's accurate, though.
She's gone several times before, I don't know why not this time.
Paul Larudee was on one/
I hold him personally responsible for Rachel Corrie's death.
If the IDF accidentally killed his ass, I really wouldn't mind.
| 60 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, May 30, 2010 11:32:31pm |
re: #53 JasonA
What lies beyond batshit?
Rat shit. And three-toed sloth shit.
(Anyone getting that reference I will be truly impressed by.)
| 61 |
Gus Sun, May 30, 2010 11:33:51pm |
Turkish PM says West unfair, insincere in Iran row: report
(AFP) – 1 day ago
ANKARA — Turkey's prime minister Saturday accused Western powers of lacking a "fair and sincere" approach on Iran in a mounting row over a nuclear swap deal with Tehran, Anatolia news agency reported.
Speaking to Turkish journalists during a visit to Brazil, Recep Tayyip Erdogan reiterated criticism of the West for staying mum on Israel, widely believed to be the Middle East's sole if undeclared nuclear power, Anatolia reported.
| 63 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:34:41pm |
re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist
I love multi-party politics, whatever country is involved. NYC had multiple parties involved in the city council elections during the depression. It took a NY state constitutional amendment to get rid of them. I miss that.
| 64 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:36:45pm |
"As I've mentioned before, I think LeBron would look great in a Bulls uniform," the president told reporters during a special morning press briefing in the Oval Office. "It's a great basketball city, and I think he'd fit right in. Just like I fit in here in my office—which, if you hadn't noticed when you entered, is the Oval Office, the center of power of the United States and, by extension, the Western world."
"Sorry, I think I may have gotten sidetracked there and said something irrelevant," added the president, walking casually over the presidential seal on the White House rug. "Or possibly not. In any case, I think LeBron would be perfect for the Bulls and their excellent core of young players. It's a team game, and in any team game it's important to have good teammates, as I'm fond of telling my own teammates, like the joint chiefs, the secretary of state, and, you know, the nation of Britain."
| 65 |
Bagua Sun, May 30, 2010 11:37:02pm |
| 66 |
Nimed Sun, May 30, 2010 11:37:29pm |
re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist
Sometimes it can be exasperating. Do the Hair-Covering, Cat-Owning, Knitting Women Between 30 And 45 Of Gush Etzion really need their own political party? And if so, WHY?
To make unreasonable demands in a coalition government!
| 67 |
Nimed Sun, May 30, 2010 11:41:04pm |
re: #65 Bagua
This will mean pistols at dawn if we don't work this out.
Today? But I've got deadlines!
| 68 |
Irenicum Sun, May 30, 2010 11:41:15pm |
No, really, seriously, g'nite. Hoping our world doesn't blow up because of crazy shit.
| 69 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:45:26pm |
re: #68 Irenicum
No, really, seriously, g'nite. Hoping our world doesn't blow up because of crazy shit.
Yeah. I want to be awake when it happens, too.
Nite!
| 70 |
Soap_Man Sun, May 30, 2010 11:46:15pm |
Well, the episode of The Wire just finished downloading from iTunes. So goodnight all.
| 71 |
Silvergirl Sun, May 30, 2010 11:46:32pm |
re: #50 JasonA
Okay, I just read that Cynthia McKinney was on one of those ships. Heh.
Don't know if it's accurate, though.
Probably not accurate. She's speaking at the New Black Panthers thing this weekend in Atlanta.
| 72 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:52:15pm |
re: #71 Silvergirl
Hrm. I'm getting the vibe that she's been in two places at once...
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 73 |
Silvergirl Sun, May 30, 2010 11:56:10pm |
re: #72 JasonA
Hrm. I'm getting the vibe that she's been in two places at once...
[Link: www.google.com...]
I believe they are talking about past Free Gaza Movement missions, not this one happening now.
| 74 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Sun, May 30, 2010 11:57:45pm |
re: #73 Silvergirl
Ah. Would seem I got lost sorting through all the chatter. Thanks for throwing me a rope :)
| 75 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:15:25am |
Netanyahu mulls cancelling U.S. trip in wake of Gaza flotilla deaths
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is considering the cancellation of his imminent trip to the United States, in wake of the deaths of at least 10 people after Israel Navy troops boarded a flotilla of ships heading to the Gaza Strip carrying aid.
| 76 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:18:09am |
Part of the counter-flotilla:
| 77 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 12:23:32am |
Why don't these nitwits on Fool-tilla do something useful like helping fight the Gulf Oil Leak.
| 78 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:24:05am |
re: #76 JasonA
Part of the counter-flotilla:
Really, if the whole point is to get them to turn back then she isn't helping...
| 79 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 12:25:24am |
Just a news flash to all morons, when any armed groups says "Dont do that or things will happen", don't be suprised when things happen.
| 80 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:28:40am |
re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Just a news flash to all morons, when any armed groups says "Dont do that or things will happen", don't be suprised when things happen.
Or as one HuffPo commentator said:
The blockade has been in place for 3 years. You go running into a brick wall, it's YOUR fault.
| 81 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:29:14am |
Haaretz now says ten dead.
JPost has the IDF saying that the shooting began after a flotillar took a soldier's weapon and opened fire.
I'm seeing reports of four to six IDF personnel wounded.
I realize that my little activist world is the least of this, but Israel in the Gardens is a week from yesterday, and hoo boy, is this gonna be fun!
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:29:44am |
re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Just a news flash to all morons, when any armed groups says "Dont do that or things will happen", don't be suprised when things happen.
They were apparently armed. I think the plan was for things to happen.
| 84 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 12:31:02am |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
They were apparently armed. I think the plan was for things to happen.
and then we get "Hey, they're shooting back! Who said they get to shoot back?"
| 86 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 12:34:55am |
re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist
There wouldn't be ten dead without a terrorist attack. The Israelis are the most careful military in the world.
| 87 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:36:09am |
re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
and then we get "Hey, they're shooting back! Who said they get to shoot back?"
Right. According to them the IDF boarding crew should have let themselves be beaten an clubbed to death by these "pacifists."
Facts still remain such as the IDF radioing in a request to divert to another port and that the Israeli government would accept the so called aid after inspection. Which they of course ignored.
| 88 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:40:22am |
re: #86 Bagua
There wouldn't be ten dead without a terrorist attack. The Israelis are the most careful military in the world.
Something happened. We'll find out what in the next few days.
But the anti-Israel movement isn't waiting.
| 89 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 12:42:09am |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
Dear lord, six Israeli Naval commandos wounded? It was an ambush. Those are some of the highest trained professionals in the Israeli forces.
Upon boarding the ships, the soldiers encountered fierce resistance from the passangers who were armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. The soldiers used non-lethal measures to disperse the crowd. The activists succeeded in stealing the weapon from one of the IDF’s soldiers and reportedly opened fire, leading to an escalation in violence.
| 90 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 12:42:29am |
re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist
Something happened. We'll find out what in the next few days.
But the anti-Israel movement isn't waiting.
Why bother? They already have their script.
| 91 |
Silvergirl Mon, May 31, 2010 12:42:40am |
NYTimes tells who was among those onboard (not Cynthia McKinney)
About 600 passengers were said to be aboard the vessels, including the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Mairead Corrigan-Maguire of Northern Ireland, and a Holocaust survivor, Hedy Epstein, 85.
| 92 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 12:45:04am |
re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist
JPost has the IDF saying that the shooting began after a flotillar took a soldier's weapon and opened fire.
Nitpicking... but I think "flotillar" is not an English word.
Our philologist is asleep, and I'm a poor substitute, so I don't know the word for which are searching.
| 94 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:45:35am |
re: #92 freetoken
Nitpicking... but I think "flotillar" is not an English word.
Our philologist is asleep, and I'm a poor substitute, so I don't know the word for which are searching.
I made it up. I admit it. What do you call a member of flotilla?
| 95 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:46:51am |
re: #91 Silvergirl
Seems there may have been a veteran from the Liberty on board, too.
| 96 |
swamprat Mon, May 31, 2010 12:47:00am |
Google;
A few days ago, pac-man.
Memorial Day, a teensy little yellow ribbon on a flag below the search field.
Google can just barely kiss my ass.
| 97 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:47:27am |
IDF Forces Met with Pre-Planned Violence when Attempting to Board Flotilla, 31 May 2010
Israel Defense Force Spokesperson
IDF Forces Met with Pre-Planned Violence when attempting to Board Flotilla
Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces boarded six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the action. The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections.
During the boarding of the ships, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.
As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces employed riot dispersal means, including live fire.
According to initial reports, these events resulted in over ten deaths among the demonstrators and numerous injured, in addition, more than four naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners are currently being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel...
| 98 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 12:48:24am |
re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist
A flotilla is just a small collection of (smallish) ships. On a ship you have either crew or passengers. I noticed that the news blurb just upstream used the term passengers.
Surely there are many terms that could be used (pejoratively), but technically I don't think there is a term other than passenger or crew.
| 99 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:48:25am |
Video Update: Israeli Navy Addresses a Ship in the Flotilla, 31 May 2010
The Israeli Navy addresses a ship nearing the Gaza shore , offering it to dock at the Ashdod Port and transfer its supplies under the ship’s crew’s supervision. The ship refused to comply.
| 100 |
swamprat Mon, May 31, 2010 12:49:04am |
re: #97 Gus 802
I'd have made sure everyone was safe, and scuttled her.
| 101 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:49:12am |
re: #96 swamprat
Google;
A few days ago, pac-man.
Memorial Day, a teensy little yellow ribbon on a flag below the search field.Google can just barely kiss my ass.
I kind of appreciate the minimalist approach for this, actually.
And why the hell am I still awake???
| 102 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 12:49:16am |
Grrr. Kos update 7:
The Israelis are claiming they were attacked with knives, and they were forced to open fire. Which seems unlikely, to say the least. The activists were committed to non-violence, and were very careful not to carry weapons, so that their intentions would be unimpeachable.
Now the Israelis are towing the flotilla, unexpectedly, to Haifa. I expect they're taking away any cellphones and cameras they can find, and destroying evidence. It will be hard for Israel to discount what really happened with so many witnesses, but if the wrong footage (i.e. the truth) gets out on film, the story will have much longer legs.
It's the "pure self-serving speculation" update.
| 103 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 12:50:07am |
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Israeli Naval personnel injured in this terrorist attack. May they have a compete recovery.
| 105 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:50:28am |
re: #102 Nimed
Grrr. Kos update 7:
The Israelis are claiming they were attacked with knives, and they were forced to open fire. Which seems unlikely, to say the least. The activists were committed to non-violence, and were very careful not to carry weapons, so that their intentions would be unimpeachable.
Now the Israelis are towing the flotilla, unexpectedly, to Haifa. I expect they're taking away any cellphones and cameras they can find, and destroying evidence. It will be hard for Israel to discount what really happened with so many witnesses, but if the wrong footage (i.e. the truth) gets out on film, the story will have much longer legs.
It's the "pure self-serving speculation" update.
Thus spake Indymedia, Inforwars, and Alex Jones.
| 106 |
enoughalready Mon, May 31, 2010 12:50:45am |
There's a pretty substantial number of videos from the incident. And nothing shows any secret terrorists on the boat. Now as much as I support Israel's right to uphold a blockade, I DO NOT support or condone attacking ships on international water. They'll get their asses kicked over this one I think, this was an attempt at bullying and completely misjudging the situation.
(And no, I don't buy the "there were terrorists /violent leftists on the boats" explanation either. It's just as full of shit as the Kos side.)
| 107 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:51:29am |
| 108 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:52:10am |
re: #106 enoughalready
There's a pretty substantial number of videos from the incident. And nothing shows any secret terrorists on the boat. Now as much as I support Israel's right to uphold a blockade, I DO NOT support or condone attacking ships on international water. They'll get their asses kicked over this one I think, this was an attempt at bullying and completely misjudging the situation.
(And no, I don't buy the "there were terrorists /violent leftists on the boats" explanation either. It's just as full of shit as the Kos side.)
They didn't attack "the ship." They sent in a boarding party and the boarding party was attacked. At least that's they way I see it now.
| 109 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:52:43am |
re: #106 enoughalready
There's a pretty substantial number of videos from the incident. And nothing shows any secret terrorists on the boat. Now as much as I support Israel's right to uphold a blockade, I DO NOT support or condone attacking ships on international water. They'll get their asses kicked over this one I think, this was an attempt at bullying and completely misjudging the situation.
(And no, I don't buy the "there were terrorists /violent leftists on the boats" explanation either. It's just as full of shit as the Kos side.)
What does a 'secret terrorist' look like?
| 110 |
PaxAmericana Mon, May 31, 2010 12:52:48am |
I hope Charles posts on Flotilla tomorrow.
| 111 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 12:53:27am |
re: #106 enoughalready
Are you stupid? The Israeli Naval commandos are some of the most highly trained soldiers on the planet. If several were wounded, then they most certainly were attacked.
| 112 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:54:33am |
re: #110 PaxAmericana
I hope Charles posts on Flotilla tomorrow.
Doesn't really matter. I'm pretty sure it's all this site will talking about anyway.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Unless something develops on that Korean peninsula over there...
| 113 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 12:55:07am |
re: #106 enoughalready
Now as much as I support Israel's right to uphold a blockade, I DO NOT support or condone attacking ships on international water. They'll get their asses kicked over this one I think, this was an attempt at bullying and completely misjudging the situation.
Israel lost this battle the minute those ships departed their port.
This operation always was one of propaganda (the quantities of goods onboard are too small to make a significant difference), and the Israelis fell right in line with what was scripted for them. Too predictable.
Not that I could have come up with an alternate scenario for the IDF, yet it's clear now that if Israel was going to have "victory" in this one that would have been a way to prevent this event from getting off the ground in the first place.
| 114 |
swamprat Mon, May 31, 2010 12:55:41am |
re: #101 JasonA
I kind of appreciate the minimalist approach for this, actually.
And why the hell am I still awake???
Minimalist is right. You only see it once, unless you clear your cookies
| 115 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:56:28am |
re: #114 swamprat
Minimalist is right. You only see it once, unless you clear your cookies
When I reload it disappears, but comes back after three seconds.
| 116 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:56:43am |
re: #114 swamprat
Minimalist is right. You only see it once, unless you clear your cookies
I'm seeing it each time I pull Google up.
| 118 |
Silvergirl Mon, May 31, 2010 12:58:01am |
| 119 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 12:58:28am |
My brain is shutting down. Were they in international waters when this went down?
| 120 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 12:58:44am |
re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist
My brain is shutting down. Were they in international waters when this went down?
Allegedly.
| 121 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 12:59:19am |
re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist
My brain is shutting down. Were they in international waters when this went down?
Everything I've read says yes.
| 122 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:00:02am |
| 123 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:01:18am |
| 124 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:02:18am |
Just came across this...
International Court May Define Aggression as Crime
PARIS — More than 100 nations, contingents of human-rights groups and lawyers from around the globe, will begin a meeting on Monday in Kampala, Uganda, tackling issues that could fundamentally expand the power of international law...
Classic. I don't know about anyone else but I find them holding this conference in Uganda rather ironic. And typical.
| 125 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:02:33am |
Bagua might like this one:
| 126 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:04:07am |
re: #124 Gus 802
If I believed in a hell I'd think Idi Amin would be laughing in it right now.
| 127 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:05:34am |
re: #126 JasonA
If I believed in a hell I'd think Idi Amin would be laughing in it right now.
Is he dead now?
| 128 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:06:15am |
re: #126 JasonA
If I believed in a hell I'd think Idi Amin would be laughing in it right now.
Laughing into the camera, sweat across his face, holding something that looks like a turkey leg.
//
| 129 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:06:28am |
re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist
Is he dead now?
Yes. He spent the final years of his life suffering horribly in prison.
No, wait, he was actually living well in Saudi Arabia.
| 131 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:07:35am |
re: #129 JasonA
Yes. He spent the final years of his life suffering horribly in prison.
No, wait, he was actually living well in Saudi Arabia.
I remembered he was in Saudi. American personnel spotted him in a grocery store during the first Gulf War.
| 132 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:07:48am |
re: #129 JasonA
Yes. He spent the final years of his life suffering horribly in prison.
No, wait, he was actually living well in Saudi Arabia.
Surprise, surprise!
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Once could say more "evidence."
| 133 |
swamprat Mon, May 31, 2010 1:08:43am |
| 134 |
Silvergirl Mon, May 31, 2010 1:10:50am |
re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist
That's going to make this look bad, no?
Yeah, Turkey chimes in.
Sensitive to the possible public-relations fallout of any confrontation, Israeli officials had debated the appropriate response to the flotilla, fearful a heavy-handed approach could deepen Israel's current diplomatic woes.
Monday's violence threatens to pose another big setback for Israel's international standing, whether the military action Israel took at sea was warranted and measured, or not.
Turkey's foreign ministry accused Israel of violating international law, describing its actions as "unacceptable" and demanding an explanation. "This regrettable incident, which took place in the international waters and in serious violation of international law could have irreparable consequences for our relations" with Israel, the Turkish foreign ministry said in a statement.
| 135 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:12:13am |
re: #134 Silvergirl
Yep. They've been stirring the pot all along.
This would be the same Turkey whose PM recently said that "the West is treating Iran unfairly."
| 136 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:12:39am |
Jameel reports: 4 of the soldiers injured had been shot. 1 in serious condition.
| 137 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:13:28am |
re: #125 freetoken
Bagua might like this one:
Brilliant!
BP is confident (65%) that should Operation Whale Blow-Up Phase One not work, the operation's Phase Two (called Fill The Whale) will definitely (65%) work.
| 138 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:13:52am |
From Jameel: Deputy Foreign Minister Ayalon: Israel did everything they could to prevent violence, including transport of humanitarian aid through proper channels. The flotilla was a pre-conceived provocation. There were readied weapons found aboard the ships.
| 139 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:16:23am |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
From Jameel: Deputy Foreign Minister Ayalon: Israel did everything they could to prevent violence, including transport of humanitarian aid through proper channels. The flotilla was a pre-conceived provocation. There were readied weapons found aboard the ships.
Isn't that a violation of maritime law?
| 140 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:17:10am |
re: #134 Silvergirl
As I mentioned upstream, Israel lost this propaganda battle the instant the ships left harbor.
Example:
Martin concern over convoy clashes
In a statement this morning, the Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin said he was "gravely concerned" over reports emerging of the storming of a Turkish ship. He said the department was seeking to confirm the safety of the eight Irish nationals who sailed with the Turkish-led flotilla.
"The reports of up to 15 people killed and 50 injured, if confirmed, would constitute a totally unacceptable response by the Israeli military to what was a humanitarian mission attempting to deliver much needed supplies to the people of Gaza."
When Western foreign ministers start using the term "totally unacceptable" then the goals of the flotilla activists have been realized.
BTW, one of the Irishmen quoted in that article claims
"It looks as though this cold and calculated attack took place in international waters, in breach of all international maritime laws. There must be action from the international community."
I do not believe the boldfaced claim is accurate. Nations usually reserve the right to board ships on the open seas if there is reason to suspect contraband is being shipped. However, I'm not sure that is what the IDF is claiming, or frankly if anyone cares.
| 141 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 1:17:40am |
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
| 142 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:18:13am |
| 143 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:20:02am |
re: #140 freetoken
I think it helps Israel if the "flotillars" (probably incorrect, but I do like it!) had weapons on board.
| 144 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:20:57am |
re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist
Is it? Dunno. Won't matter much.
I think it does. I remember when the piracy thing was big news last summer the question of "well why don't they have guns to defend themselves" came up. Answer was that they can't.
| 145 |
Silvergirl Mon, May 31, 2010 1:21:43am |
re: #140 freetoken
As I mentioned upstream, Israel lost this propaganda battle the instant the ships left harbor.
Example:
Martin concern over convoy clashes
I do not believe the boldfaced claim is accurate. Nations usually reserve the right to board ships on the open seas if there is reason to suspect contraband is being shipped. However, I'm not sure that is what the IDF is claiming, or frankly if anyone cares.
You said:
When Western foreign ministers start using the term "totally unacceptable" then the goals of the flotilla activists have been realized.
Yes, some of their goals.
Well done. Previous post also.
| 146 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 1:22:12am |
re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist
Is it? Dunno. Won't matter much.
I'm more optimistic than you on this. If Israeli soldiers were fired upon, I believe it will matter a lot for at least a part of the public.
| 147 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:23:10am |
re: #141 Nimed
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
OK, that's pretty funny. =)
| 148 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:23:11am |
re: #141 Nimed
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
Come on man, don't pick on Mandy, she's not even here. And as far as this whole thing? It is a manufactured outrage, a form of jihad by propaganda that Israel faces on a continuous basis. It should be exposed and Mandy does a great job.
| 149 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:23:14am |
re: #143 JasonA
I'm not sure anyone really cares.
As the news stories come rolling in:
Turkey: Israeli raid may have "irreparable consequences"
In a strongly worded statement, the Turkish foreign ministry said Monday Israel's raid of aid vessels headed for Gaza may lead to ''irreparable consequences' for ties between the two countries.
'We strongly condemn these inhumane practices of Israel,' the ministry statement released Monday said, adding Israel had shot on innocent civilians.
'This deplorable incident, which took place in open seas and constitutes a fragrant breach of international law, may lead to irreparable consequences in our bilateral relations,' it continued.
... it becomes clear that the goals of the flotilla have been realized.
Again, though, this claim of "fragrant [sic] breach of international law" may not be technically correct.
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:23:22am |
re: #146 Nimed
I'm more optimistic than you on this. If Israeli soldiers were fired upon, I believe it will matter a lot for at least a part of the public.
You're right. I'm getting low and freaked out, and starting to imagine that local 'peace activists' are more influential than they are.
Gonna go to bed in a few.
| 151 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:24:53am |
re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist
You're right. I'm getting low and freaked out, and starting to imagine that local 'peace activists' are more influential than they are.
Gonna go to bed in a few.
Surpised you're still awake.
| 152 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:25:23am |
re: #149 freetoken
I'm not sure anyone really cares.
As the news stories come rolling in:
Turkey: Israeli raid may have "irreparable consequences"
... it becomes clear that the goals of the flotilla have been realized.
Again, though, this claim of "fragrant [sic] breach of international law" may not be technically correct.
It really does stink, doesn't it?
:P
| 153 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:26:42am |
re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist
You're right. I'm getting low and freaked out, and starting to imagine that local 'peace activists' are more influential than they are.
Gonna go to bed in a few.
Ignore the nutters SanFranciscoZionist, the only tragedy here is the members of of Sayeret 13 who were wounded. They never should have been risked for a police action. No one cares about another Paliwood production. Everybody is on to them now. The dogs will bark, and go back to sleep, it's what they do.
| 154 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 1:28:04am |
re: #153 Bagua
Ignore the nutters SanFranciscoZionist, the only tragedy here is the members of of Sayeret 13 who were wounded. They never should have been risked for a police action. No one cares about another Paliwood production. Everybody is on to them now. The dogs will bark, and go back to sleep, it's what they do.
I'm goin' to bed before anything else happens.
Night, all.
| 155 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 1:29:16am |
re: #148 Bagua
Come on man, don't pick on Mandy, she's not even here. And as far as this whole thing? It is a manufactured outrage, a form of jihad by propaganda that Israel faces on a continuous basis. It should be exposed and Mandy does a great job.
Sorry if I just sounded like an ass, that was meant to be humorous, believe it or not. I will stubbornly maintain she is wrong on defending the bombardment, though.
| 156 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 1:29:28am |
re: #144 JasonA
I think it does. I remember when the piracy thing was big news last summer the question of "well why don't they have guns to defend themselves" came up. Answer was that they can't.
Thats mostly due to insurance regulations I believe. Costs more to insure an armed ship, plus you run into legal issues pulling into foreign ports with weapons.
| 157 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:30:47am |
re: #149 freetoken
...
Again, though, this claim of "fragrant [sic] breach of international law" may not be technically correct.
Well, it's important to look good while you're flouting international laws. Perfume is a universal value.
| 158 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:31:48am |
re: #155 Nimed
Sorry if I just sounded like an ass, that was meant to be humorous, believe it or not. I will stubbornly maintain she is wrong on defending the bombardment, though.
What bombardment?
| 159 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:32:07am |
Video here:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
At around 0:24 you can see an IDF soldier being beaten with a stick or club.
| 160 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 1:33:07am |
re: #159 Gus 802
Video here:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
At around 0:24 you can see an IDF soldier being beaten with a stick or club.
Thats peacefully and nonviolently being beaten with a club
| 161 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:33:57am |
re: #157 Bagua
I hate perfume. Once in Japan, a lovely young Japanese woman with whom I was having an afternoon get together at Starbucks implied she wanted to go to a "Love Hotel" ... but I just couldn't. I was wanting to get away from her as fast as possible because her perfume was causing me all sorts of grief.
| 162 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:34:22am |
re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Thats mostly due to insurance regulations I believe. Costs more to insure an armed ship, plus you run into legal issues pulling into foreign ports with weapons.
Hrm. That's the gist of what I've been reading. It seems they really screwed up by boarding the vessel so far out from their own waters if the numbers being thrown out are right.
| 163 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 1:34:41am |
re: #161 freetoken
I hate perfume. Once in Japan, a lovely young Japanese woman with whom I was having an afternoon get together at Starbucks implied she wanted to go to a "Love Hotel" ... but I just couldn't. I was wanting to get away from her as fast as possible because her perfume was causing me all sorts of grief.
The rooms have rather extensive showers.
| 164 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:35:28am |
re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But everything about her was doused in that stuff...
Hey, how do you know about their showers?
| 165 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:36:11am |
| 166 |
Kragarghazi Mon, May 31, 2010 1:37:12am |
re: #164 freetoken
But everything about her was doused in that stuff...
Hey, how do you know about their showers?
18 months station justed outside Tokyo.
| 167 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:37:20am |
re: #159 Gus 802
Video here:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
At around 0:24 you can see an IDF soldier being beaten with a stick or club.
It looks to be 3 or 4 feet long, possibly one of the iron bars they were said to be transporting?
| 168 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 1:37:36am |
re: #158 Bagua
What bombardment?
You were there. The discussion starts here:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I'm going to bed now. See you soon guys.
| 169 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:38:23am |
re: #167 Bagua
It looks to be 3 or 4 feet long, possibly one of the iron bars they were said to be transporting?
Hard to tell. I know when I was watching the initial video from Turkish TV I saw a lot of people with sticks, knives, one looked like a machete.
| 170 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:38:35am |
re: #161 freetoken
I hate perfume. Once in Japan, a lovely young Japanese woman with whom I was having an afternoon get together at Starbucks implied she wanted to go to a "Love Hotel" ... but I just couldn't. I was wanting to get away from her as fast as possible because her perfume was causing me all sorts of grief.
Yes, all fragrant violations should be avoided, especially in international situations.
| 171 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 1:39:28am |
re: #165 Gus 802
On the other hand:
No guns aboard Gaza humanitarian aid ships
Customs officials at the Antalya port have denied Israel’s claims that weapons were detected on a ship taking humanitarian aid to Gaza that took off from Antalya on Sunday.
Officials of the Customs Directorate said all of the passengers that boarded the Mavi Marmara ship had to go through X-ray detectors. They said not a single passenger had weapons in their person. “42 passengers had boarded in Istanbul, here 504 passengers got on the ship. They passed through detectors and X-rays. We did not spot any weapons and there is no such record in our logs. We did not notice anything suspicious about Mavi Marmara. If our officers got suspicious of anything, they would have reported it.”
| 172 |
Silvergirl Mon, May 31, 2010 1:41:13am |
I think I'm posting in my sleep. Good night, Lizards.
Thanks for all the updates to the situation.
| 173 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:41:14am |
re: #171 freetoken
On the other hand:
Sure, if one can believe that. There is this:
IDF: Gaza flotilla activists stole 2 handguns from soldiers
05/31/2010 11:30
The IDF said Monday that international activists aboard a ship of the Gaza flotilla were found with handguns.
The weapons were stolen from soldiers who boarded the ship early Monday.
The organizers of the flotilla have denied that activists aboard the ships had weapons or that they partook in violence against the Israeli soldiers.
| 174 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:41:43am |
re: #171 freetoken
Lol, "Customs officials" in Turkey. No sneaking anything by them.
| 175 |
Benghazzy Ben Ross Mon, May 31, 2010 1:44:57am |
wtf?
West Bank rabbi bans women from local election
Rabbi Elyakim Levanon of the Elon Moreh settlement, near Nablus, said women lacked the authority to stand for the post of local secretary.
He wrote in a community newspaper that women must only be heard through their husbands.
| 176 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 1:49:32am |
| 177 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 1:51:19am |
Nearly noon in Israel. CNN reports indicate 10 dead in Gaza blockade-busting attempt.
| 178 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 1:58:54am |
Another excuse for Gazans to not work for the rest of the week and go on strike. Another excuse to throw rocks at IDF forces. Another excuse to roll over, play victim, then lob rockets and mortar into Israeli territory. Another excuse to claim they're not getting aid while billion have already poured into Palestine, Gaza, Lebanon, EIEIO, over the years with most of it disappearing into arms purchases and Hamas fat cats wallets.
| 179 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:03:27am |
Another excuse for even worse to come for Israel.
| 180 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:05:34am |
The flotilla is being directed to the Israeli port of Ashdod.
Media shit-storm expected.
| 181 |
Pip's Squeak Mon, May 31, 2010 2:08:24am |
re: #180 ryannon
The flotilla is being directed to the Israeli port of Ashdod.
Media shit-storm expected.
Media shit-storm well deserved.
| 182 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:12:39am |
Media shit-storm was the objective.
There wouldn't have been any media anything if these yahoos had instead diverted to Ashdod Port as was requested by the Israeli navy.
Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization:
Hamas is the largest and most influential Palestinian militant movement. In January 2006, the group won the Palestinian Authority's (PA) general legislative elections, defeating Fatah, the party of the PA's president, Mahmoud Abbas, and setting the stage for a power struggle. Since attaining power, Hamas has continued its refusal to recognize the state of Israel, leading to crippling economic sanctions. Historically, Hamas has sponsored an extensive social service network. The group has also operated a terrorist wing, carrying out suicide bombings and attacks using mortars and short-range rockets. Hamas has launched attacks both in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and inside the pre-1967 boundaries of Israel. In Arabic, the word "hamas" means zeal. But it's also an Arabic acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
[Link: www.cfr.org...]
| 183 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:13:24am |
| 184 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:20:40am |
re: #182 Gus 802
Entirely agree. It was a total set-up, and it worked. On the other hand, Israel seems to be running out of patience with these (and other) yahoos. It may be a default doomsday position, but sooner or later it was bound to happen.
| 185 |
Pip's Squeak Mon, May 31, 2010 2:20:47am |
re: #183 ryannon
A plague on both their houses. Personally, I do not approve of theologically grounded states. Period. This includes motivations such as provided by some Singhalese.
| 186 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:23:17am |
re: #185 Pip's Squeak
A plague on both their houses. Personally, I do not approve of theologically grounded states. Period. This includes motivations such as provided by some Singhalese.
We'll forward your concerns about theologically grounded states to Hamas, Iran and Israel. Thank you for your opinion.
And now, back to the news.
| 187 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 2:26:13am |
re: #185 Pip's Squeak
A plague on both their houses. Personally, I do not approve of theologically grounded states. Period. This includes motivations such as provided by some Singhalese.
We have the long-term of the US to support the spread of democracy and democratic institutions: these include promoting the values of equal rights and religious freedom.
Then we have the short-term political and economic interests that lead us to support feudal Wahabist monarchies like Saudi Arabia or Orthodox theocracies like Israel.
Problem is, policies like that will come to bite us in the butt sooner or later.
| 188 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:26:23am |
Moral equivalence, it's the new black.
Though I see what you mean about the Singhalese.
| 189 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 2:27:59am |
re: #187 ralphieboy
We have the long-term of the US to support the spread of democracy and democratic institutions: these include promoting the values of equal rights and religious freedom.
Then we have the short-term political and economic interests that lead us to support feudal Wahabist monarchies like Saudi Arabia or Orthodox theocracies like Israel.
Problem is, policies like that will come to bite us in the butt sooner or later.
Come again?
| 190 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:28:00am |
Abortion restrictions in Palestinian territories:
1. To save the life of the mother - Yes
2. To preserve the physical health of the mother - No
3. To preserve the mental health of the mother - No
4. In cases of rape and incest - No
5. When the unborn child has medical problems or birth defects
for social and/or economic reasons, e.g. if the mother cannot afford to support a child - No
6. Available on demand, no reason need be given - No
Abortion restrictions in Israel:
1. To save the life of the mother - Yes
2. To preserve the physical health of the mother - Yes
3. To preserve the mental health of the mother - Yes
4. In cases of rape and incest - Yes
5. When the unborn child has medical problems or birth defects
for social and/or economic reasons, e.g. if the mother cannot afford to support a child - Yes
6. Available on demand, no reason need be given - No
Fascinating isn't it?
| 191 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 2:28:36am |
Just when I was closing the final Firefox windows...
| 192 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:31:54am |
re: #187 ralphieboy
Then we have the short-term political and economic interests that lead us to support feudal Wahabist monarchies like Saudi Arabia or Orthodox theocracies like Israel.
Are you drunk?
| 193 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 2:32:42am |
re: #187 ralphieboy
Can you explain how a democracy with one of the most secular populations in the world is an "Orthodox theocracy"?
| 194 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:33:27am |
LGBT rights in the Palestinian territories
Criminal Law
Male homosexuality is illegal in Gaza, with laws dating to the British Criminal Code Ordinance of 1936. However, it is reported to be legal in the West Bank.
Civil Rights
Palestine has no civil right laws that protect LGBT people from discrimination or harassment. The Palestinian political organizations, both secular and fundamentalist, tend to avoid the issue of LGBT-rights. Recently, a handful of LGBT-organizations have arisen to aid LGBT Arabs and Palestinians, all of which are headquartered in Israel;
No dancing and no gays if Hamas gets its way
Yeah man. It must be really hip to support Hamas isn't it? I mean. Look at what a progressive culture Hamas and the Palestinian territories reflect.
Just think. This is just their secular laws and ideologies. That doesn't include their superstitious practices.
| 195 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:33:34am |
re: #188 Bagua
Moral equivalence, it's the new black.
Though I see what you mean about the Singhalese.
Waiting for, "I've nothing against the Jewish people, it's the Zionist politics of Israel..." in 5, 4, 3, 2....
| 196 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:35:25am |
re: #195 ryannon
This comment wasn't referring to you, Bagua.
| 197 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:36:39am |
re: #195 ryannon
Waiting for, "I've nothing against the Jewish people, it's the Zionist politics of Israel..." in 5, 4, 3, 2...
La plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
| 198 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 2:38:08am |
re: #193 Nimed
Can you explain how a democracy with one of the most secular populations in the world is an "Orthodox theocracy"?
No doubt there are secularists in Israel, but I can't really see that nation being described as "one of the most secular populations in the world".
| 199 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 2:38:34am |
Whatever. I confess to actually feeling queasy for the last hour. I'm going to try and step back and let my stomach settle. Very bad moon rising for Israel, I'm afraid.
| 200 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:41:37am |
Oh. Just thought of something.
The EU is demanding an investigation. Several European countries have summoned the respective Israeli ambassadors.
And their response to Iran after their election massacres was?
| 201 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 2:43:28am |
re: #193 Nimed
Can you explain how a democracy with one of the most secular populations in the world is an "Orthodox theocracy"?
A bit overstated, prhaps, but I was thinking of that West Bank Rabbi who forbid women to vote. That puts him on the same level as the Saudis.
| 202 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:45:53am |
re: #200 Gus 802
Oh. Just thought of something.
The EU is demanding an investigation. Several European countries have summoned the respective Israeli ambassadors.
And their response to Iran after their election massacres was?
Despicable. Eurotrash.
| 203 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:47:43am |
re: #202 Bagua
Despicable. Eurotrash.
Amazing isn't it? Notice how quick they are to respond to this? Meanwhile getting them to agree on the Iran problem alone is like herding cats.
| 204 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 2:47:54am |
re: #198 freetoken
No doubt there are secularists in Israel, but I can't really see that nation being described as "one of the most secular populations in the world".
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
But since the Jewish population of Israel is roughly 80 percent secular and only 20 percent religious...
Wikipedia says the estimates vary widely, though.
| 205 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:49:41am |
re: #201 ralphieboy
A bit overstated, prhaps, but I was thinking of that West Bank Rabbi who forbid women to vote. That puts him on the same level as the Saudis.
He is the chief Rabbi of a Rabbinical school. Not Prime Minister. And no, he is not even remotely comparable to the Saudis, you have no clue what you're talking about. Ynet has an agenda to demonise the Orthodox, as does the BBC against Israel in general.
| 206 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 2:49:50am |
re: #200 Gus 802
Were there not plenty of condemnations over the violence?
| 207 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 2:50:21am |
re: #204 Nimed
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
But since the Jewish population of Israel is roughly 80 percent secular and only 20 percent religious...Wikipedia says the estimates vary widely, though.
Problem is that the orthodox have a real stranglehold on politics and policy.
| 208 |
freetoken Mon, May 31, 2010 2:50:36am |
re: #204 Nimed
I guess it depends on what the WP defines as "religious".
| 209 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 2:52:44am |
re: #206 freetoken
Were there not plenty of condemnations over the violence?
It took them what? Several days to condemn the violence? Then it took them another two weeks to mull over pulling their envoy from Iran.
Instead with Israel they're going for broke within 24 hours. The difference is clear to my eyes.
| 210 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 2:53:20am |
re: #201 ralphieboy
A bit overstated, prhaps, but I was thinking of that West Bank Rabbi who forbid women to vote. That puts him on the same level as the Saudis.
I don't know what to say to that, maybe the obvious is a good idea.
The overwhelming majority of men and women in Israel vote to elect their government -- whose members can be of any religion. I'm not familiar with your example, but one Rabbi doesn't put Israel in the same category as an absolutist monarchy.
You're really off the mark here.
| 211 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 2:57:48am |
re: #207 ralphieboy
Problem is that the orthodox have a real stranglehold on politics and policy.
Stranglehold? They have political representation in a parliamentary system. You are displaying some anti-Orthodox bigotry here.
| 212 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 3:02:58am |
re: #207 ralphieboy
Ok, I really got to go. ralphieboy, if you permit me an unsolicited opinion, I usually like your comments, but you're simply deeply misinformed on this topic.
| 213 |
northwhale Mon, May 31, 2010 3:03:42am |
Does it represent a problem for anyone in here that it apparently happened in international waters?
| 214 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 3:04:10am |
An eel or fish, about two feet long just swam by the live feed of the oil spill a mile deep.
| 215 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 3:11:21am |
re: #213 northwhale
Does it represent a problem for anyone in here that it apparently happened in international waters?
It's a dilemma, but nevertheless the oil leak happened withing the 200 mile economic exclusion zone, so it is primarily a US concern.
| 216 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, May 31, 2010 3:16:14am |
Fuckin Last Unicorn, the animated movie. I remember watching that as a kid, not quite understanding it, but feeling the pathos
| 217 |
northwhale Mon, May 31, 2010 3:18:35am |
re: #215 Bagua
Sorry. I should have specified. I was referring to the Israeli operation. I've read in several sources that it happened in international waters, and it seems to me to represent a ethical and juridical problem.
| 218 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 3:19:07am |
re: #211 Bagua
Stranglehold? They have political representation in a parliamentary system. You are displaying some anti-Orthodox bigotry here.
re: #212 Nimed
Ok, I really got to go. ralphieboy, if you permit me an unsolicited opinion, I usually like your comments, but you're simply deeply misinformed on this topic.
You are right, Israel is far from a theocracy, and a comparison with Saudi Arabia is off the mark, but there are a lot of Orthodox folks there who would like to see it become a theocracy. It is in the US interest to keep that from happening.
| 220 |
Gus Mon, May 31, 2010 3:22:19am |
If you know who says the wrong thing tomorrow he's going to pass the point of no return.
| 221 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 3:24:00am |
re: #218 ralphieboy
You are right, Israel is far from a theocracy, and a comparison with Saudi Arabia is off the mark, but there are a lot of Orthodox folks there who would like to see it become a theocracy. It is in the US interest to keep that from happening.
Ok, but there are theocracies and there are theocracies. For example, the Amish are quite amiable and pleasant people. The Orthodox Jews are also wonderful people and I can assure you, the real authority is held by the women. They have some old fashioned cultural traits by a California norms, but they have a very health society.
| 222 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 3:27:42am |
re: #221 Bagua
Ok, but there are theocracies and there are theocracies. For example, the Amish are quite amiable and pleasant people. The Orthodox Jews are also wonderful people and I can assure you, the real authority is held by the women. They have some old fashioned cultural traits by a California norms, but they have a very health society.
It is a matter of how they go about it: if they don't wanna work or travel on the Sabbath, that is fine, but if they try to prohibit others from working or travelling on their holy day, we are venturing into the Theocracy realm.
I truly appreciate the Amish approach that our main purpose in life is to love and care for one another, and anything that distracts us from that goal is to be rejected.
I do not take it as far as they do, but that principle guides how I set my own priorities.
| 223 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 3:28:14am |
re: #217 northwhale
Sorry. I should have specified. I was referring to the Israeli operation. I've read in several sources that it happened in international waters, and it seems to me to represent a ethical and juridical problem.
Notify the lawyers then. I don't think it is disputed that they intended on violating Israel's security cordon. But whatever... did they read them their Miranda rights? Has that been elevated to International Law yet?
| 224 |
northwhale Mon, May 31, 2010 3:35:57am |
re: #223 Bagua
Notify the lawyers then. I don't think it is disputed that they intended on violating Israel's security cordon. But whatever... did they read them their Miranda rights? Has that been elevated to International Law yet?
Since they decided to engage in an operation that could potentially cost lives, it seems puzzling to me that they didn't wait until the ships were out of international waters. It opens up to all sorts of attacks afterwards.
| 225 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 3:35:57am |
re: #222 ralphieboy
It is a matter of how they go about it: if they don't wanna work or travel on the Sabbath, that is fine, but if they try to prohibit others from working or travelling on their holy day, we are venturing into the Theocracy realm.
How about the Blue Laws? Notice all the US States? Is America venturing to the Theocracy realm?
I truly appreciate the Amish approach that our main purpose in life is to love and care for one another, and anything that distracts us from that goal is to be rejected.
I do not take it as far as they do, but that principle guides how I set my own priorities.
That sounds very like the Orthodox Jewish people, very loving, caring people.
The great Hillel was asked by a potential convert to teach him the whole Torah while standing on one foot. Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That's the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go study it!" --ravuri-ga
That is a core belief.
| 226 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, May 31, 2010 3:43:29am |
Israel: At least 10 killed on Gaza flotilla
Global media (*spit*) falling into line.
It's an old trick: Confront armed security forces with a murderous mob armed with improvised weapons (rocks, iron bars, boards, etc), then scream bloody murder when the security force use firearms to keep from being beaten or hacked to death. Many a soldier and policeman has been killed and mutilated over the years by mobs of savages because he hesitated to use gunfire to defend himself. Lethal force does not require guns and bombs, but it does merit a lethal response.
A case in point from Northern Ireland
| 227 |
laZardo Mon, May 31, 2010 3:45:36am |
re: #221 Bagua
Ok, but there are theocracies and there are theocracies. For example, the Amish are quite amiable and pleasant people. The Orthodox Jews are also wonderful people and I can assure you, the real authority is held by the women. They have some old fashioned cultural traits by a California norms, but they have a very health society.
"Hasidim but I don't believe 'em!"
/Sopranos wisdom
//need to get me Season 1
| 229 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 3:49:11am |
The 5 rights protected by the First Amendment:
Freedom of the Press
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Assembly
Freedom of Association
We would not be here right now if these Freedoms were not defended. Let Freedom Ring.
| 230 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, May 31, 2010 3:50:42am |
re: #224 northwhale
Since they decided to engage in an operation that could potentially cost lives, it seems puzzling to me that they didn't wait until the ships were out of international waters. It opens up to all sorts of attacks afterwards.
It is only puzzling if you entirely ignorant of the law of the sea. The US Coast Guard, for example, routinely stops and boards suspected drug smugglers and illegal immigrants on the high seas and all other national maritime forces do the same. The guiding principle is the plausibility of a threat to national interest or law. One difference is that a judicial warrant is not required for a search on the high seas.
| 231 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 3:51:22am |
re: #225 Bagua
That sounds very like the Orthodox Jewish people, very loving, caring people.
The great Hillel was asked by a potential convert to teach him the whole Torah while standing on one foot. Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That's the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go study it!" --ravuri-ga
That is a core belief.
Yes, Blue Laws are remnants of Theocracy in the US, they have been repealed or loosened in many states. Sunday is just our common day of rest, it is of religious origin, but has become a more of a social and cultural tradition, such as celebrating Christmas.
And Thank God for Jewish delis that are open on Christmas Eve...
| 232 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 3:57:50am |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
The 5 rights protected by the First Amendment:
Freedom of the Press
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Assembly
Freedom of AssociationWe would not be here right now if these Freedoms were not defended. Let Freedom Ring.
And on that note, welcome to Memorial Day for the US based Lizards.
| 233 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 3:59:15am |
| 234 |
laZardo Mon, May 31, 2010 4:01:59am |
re: #232 rwdflynavy
And on that note, welcome to Memorial Day for the US based Lizards.
Uh... PMCs, blood for oil, uh...
/have not had Starbucks in months! D:
//also, Happy Memorial Day. :D
| 235 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 4:02:37am |
Just another working day in Europe, but for that, Germany has a glut of holidays in May: May Day, Feast of the Ascension, Pentecost Monday and this Thursday it will be Corpus Christi.
Never understood why they named a holiday after a town in Texas.
And when is the Feast of St. Lubbock?
| 236 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 4:04:15am |
re: #235 ralphieboy
Just another working day in Europe, but for that, Germany has a glut of holidays in May: May Day, Feast of the Ascension, Pentecost Monday and this Thursday it will be Corpus Christi.
Never understood why they named a holiday after a town in Texas.
And when is the Feast of St. Lubbock?
I think Italy has Germany beat. It seemed every other day was a holiday when I lived there in High School.
| 237 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 4:05:07am |
re: #141 Nimed
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
Ok, I looked up your comment since you brought it up:
Great advice, Mandy.
Yes, Israel, tell the President of the country that is your closest ally to shut the fuck up while you decide to bomb sovereign nations that, like it or not, have every right to sell weapons to each other.
UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which ended the Second Lebanon War in 2006, banned the rearming of Hizbullah.
Supplying the Iranian terrorist proxy Hezballah with Syrian and Iranian ballistic missiles to fire on Israel in the next round is not a "right", in fact it is forbidden by the UN Security Council.
| 238 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 4:07:33am |
re: #237 Bagua
UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which ended the Second Lebanon War in 2006, banned the rearming of Hizbullah.
Supplying the Iranian terrorist proxy Hezballah with Syrian and Iranian ballistic missiles to fire on Israel in the next round is not a "right", in fact it is forbidden by the UN Security Council.
Facts are stubborn things...
| 239 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 4:08:01am |
| 240 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 4:13:38am |
re: #236 rwdflynavy
I think Italy has Germany beat. It seemed every other day was a holiday when I lived there in High School.
True, and the Protestant parts of Germany have even fewer holidays, they don't get Corpus Christi or All Saints' Day.
i read that in the old days of the Czar, the Orthodox Russians had no fewer than 90 Holy Days a year. Add those to 52 Sundays and it means those folks had more time off than most folks do in modern America, even with Saturdays off.
| 241 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, May 31, 2010 4:14:58am |
re: #141 Nimed
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
Too bad for Kruschev that he didn't have you on the payroll when he had to respond to JFK's blockade of Cuba in 1962.
| 242 |
McSpiff Mon, May 31, 2010 4:16:15am |
Hate to drive by post, but I feel the need to address some particularly serious libel that was posted here about me last night. I am not a newfie. In fact, I have never been to the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, Nfld is the only Canadian province I have yet to visit.
| 245 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 4:40:00am |
| 246 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 4:42:18am |
re: #245 Cannadian Club Akbar
Can you imagine being the roomate that walked in at the end of that mess? I bet he decides to live on his own from now on.
| 247 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 4:45:48am |
re: #246 RogueOne
Can you imagine being the roomate that walked in at the end of that mess? I bet he decides to live on his own from now on.
We had some roommates whom we had to put out because they got to huffing lacquer in the living room (they were too lazy to go do it out the back door, even).
So they borrowed my ski hat, my roomate's jacket and another roomate's machete knife, went and held up the local convenience store and fled town.
| 248 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 4:48:30am |
re: #246 RogueOne
Can you imagine being the roomate that walked in at the end of that mess? I bet he decides to live on his own from now on.
Follow me here...
I knew a girl who dated a guy.
Dude's roommate killed himself. (shot himself in head)
Dude saved the brain matter, from off the wall.
Kept in a bucket.
My friend's old GF found it
GAK!!
| 249 |
Nimed Mon, May 31, 2010 4:49:24am |
re: #237 Bagua
UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which ended the Second Lebanon War in 2006, banned the rearming of Hizbullah.
Supplying the Iranian terrorist proxy Hezballah with Syrian and Iranian ballistic missiles to fire on Israel in the next round is not a "right", in fact it is forbidden by the UN Security Council.
Bagua, I checked Resolution 1701 and corrected myself 15 minutes later on the same thread. Downthread:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I'm obviously not defending that. I'm saying that international law and sovereignty should count for something.
Under resolution 1701, the weapons smuggling is illegal. Israel should prove that, at least, before considering a military intervention.
And again a bit later:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The entire world is not out to get Israel. If Israel makes its case that Resolution 1701 has been violated and the Security Council still doesn't authorize military action, then Israel will at least be on a much more legitimate position to go ahead.
re: #238 rwdflynavy
Facts are stubborn things...
Indeed.
Now, to recapitulate, nations have every right to sell conventional weapons to each other. In this specific instance, and under a condition of Resolution 1701 that I verified on the same thread, the arms trade between Hezbollah and Syria is illegal. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea to decide for Israel to tell the President of the US to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon. If Israel has compelling proof of the violation of the Resolution, it should be easy to make its case.
The US, more than anybody, should understand the value of convincing, unequivocal evidence.
Bin Laden Caves according to Rumsfeld
| 250 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 4:49:50am |
re: #247 ralphieboy
Other than a few times while in the Army I've always preferred to live alone. Luckily, I've never had a roommate from hell, other than my first wife of course.
| 251 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 4:53:37am |
re: #250 RogueOne
Other than a few times while in the Army I've always preferred to live alone. Luckily, I've never had a roommate from hell, other than my first wife of course.
I have always shared an apartment more by necessity than choice, and share your experiences with finally giving it up to live with a spouse...
| 252 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 4:55:56am |
Just finished making this.
Lots of work, not good for you in the least, but my family loves them.
| 253 |
Taqyia2Me Mon, May 31, 2010 5:02:39am |
Our US flag flies at half-mast until noon today in Rememberance. At noon, it will be hoisted to full-mast.
Memorial Day, 2010.
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 5:04:12am |
re: #252 rwdflynavy
Cinnamon rolls are tricky. If you don't cut them with fishing line or twine, you are screwed.
| 255 |
Summer Seale Mon, May 31, 2010 5:06:37am |
Good morning all.
Just waking up with my coffee to the news in Israel.
Looks like a lot of naive people were props for the Jihadists and were duped into becoming human shields without realizing that some very bad people on board clearly intended to instigate violence on a massive scale.
It's the same thing all over again, isn't it? So many wishful thinkers get into bad straits with people who just want to use them and get the body count up for political purposes. And no matter how many times it happens, those same kinds of people will do it again, and again, and again.
I'm pretty amazed at the level of irrationality displayed by the world to coddle the ignorant masses. They act as if Israel just wanted to storm the ship and kill people randomly, as if this is what democracies do simply because they are fighting against "oppressed people".
However, as an atheist and a humanist, I'll tell you what makes me support Israel (well, one thing at least). I just watched videos of the protests against the Israeli raid and every single one of them had chants of "Allahu Akbar". Israel is fighting against the religiously-minded morons who base their entire culture on fabricated myths of a powerful and invisible dragon in the sky. Quite frankly, I've never seen massive Israeli demonstrations which chant anything religious in nature, and most Israelis I know don't go around basing their lives and their verbal or physical reactions in society on claiming anything invisible and dragon-like is making them submit to his will (always a him, isn't it).
So, while it's a shame that people died, I really think it isn't something I greatly care about. People die every day, especially if they're stupid enough to fire and beat at troops in full battle gear who are trying to enforce their borders. Only the idiots and politicians of the world can be crying about this now. And as the current situation demonstrates: there are a fuckload of idiots and politicians in the world today. A whole fucking boatload of them, in fact.
| 256 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 5:11:08am |
re: #255 Summer
OK. I love you. What else you want from me?
| 257 |
AK-47% Mon, May 31, 2010 5:19:47am |
re: #255 Summer
Good morning all.
Just waking up with my coffee to the news in Israel.
Looks like a lot of naive people were props for the Jihadists and were duped into becoming human shields without realizing that some very bad people on board clearly intended to instigate violence on a massive scale.
It's the same thing all over again, isn't it? So many wishful thinkers get into bad straits with people who just want to use them and get the body count up for political purposes. And no matter how many times it happens, those same kinds of people will do it again, and again, and again.
I'm pretty amazed at the level of irrationality displayed by the world to coddle the ignorant masses. They act as if Israel just wanted to storm the ship and kill people randomly, as if this is what democracies do simply because they are fighting against "oppressed people".
However, as an atheist and a humanist, I'll tell you what makes me support Israel (well, one thing at least). I just watched videos of the protests against the Israeli raid and every single one of them had chants of "Allahu Akbar". Israel is fighting against the religiously-minded morons who base their entire culture on fabricated myths of a powerful and invisible dragon in the sky. Quite frankly, I've never seen massive Israeli demonstrations which chant anything religious in nature, and most Israelis I know don't go around basing their lives and their verbal or physical reactions in society on claiming anything invisible and dragon-like is making them submit to his will (always a him, isn't it).
So, while it's a shame that people died, I really think it isn't something I greatly care about. People die every day, especially if they're stupid enough to fire and beat at troops in full battle gear who are trying to enforce their borders. Only the idiots and politicians of the world can be crying about this now. And as the current situation demonstrates: there are a fuckload of idiots and politicians in the world today. A whole fucking boatload of them, in fact.
Up until about ten years ago, I followed events in the middle East with great attentiveness, as I thought it was something informed people needed to know about and I thought that it was making some movement towards reaching a settlement.
But I gave up on that when I finally concluded that there are too many people with no interest in a peace settlement and now I only pay attention when the events there start to spill out into other parts of the world, as with this most recent incident.
| 258 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 5:44:10am |
re: #257 ralphieboy
Up until about ten years ago, I followed events in the middle East with great attentiveness, as I thought it was something informed people needed to know about and I thought that it was making some movement towards reaching a settlement.
But I gave up on that when I finally concluded that there are too many people with no interest in a peace settlement and now I only pay attention when the events there start to spill out into other parts of the world, as with this most recent incident.
Didn't you get the memo? America has always been an Israeli pawn and the Jews control America. That's why there can never be peace in the ME until America frees itself from the Zionist yoke.
/
| 259 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 5:59:38am |
re: #255 Summer
I agree that this was not simply a collection of naive do-gooders. It appears to be part of an organized Turkish-led plan to provoke Israel and then to use the necessary and justified Israeli response as a pretext to further downgrade ties with Israel and to whip up anti-Israeli sentiment and promote the radical Islamist regional agenda. The vile Erdogan hopes to further these Jihadist objectives by cynically sacrificing the lives of the Free Gaza participants.
Accordingly, these events should not be minimized or ignored.
| 260 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 6:05:40am |
BTW, since when does "concrete" qualify as "vital human aid"?
BBL
| 261 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 6:10:19am |
Good morning. Has Jiminy "Shitstink" Carter come out in favor of shutting down Israel yet?
| 262 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 6:15:10am |
Good Morning Lizards..
Whoa..Just saw the news about the Gaza ships..
| 263 |
sagehen Mon, May 31, 2010 6:15:39am |
re: #231 ralphieboy
Yes, Blue Laws are remnants of Theocracy in the US, they have been repealed or loosened in many states. Sunday is just our common day of rest, it is of religious origin, but has become a more of a social and cultural tradition, such as celebrating Christmas.
And Thank God for Jewish delis that are open on Christmas Eve...
Most of the Jews I know go out for Chinese food at Christmas.
A lot of synagogues and the JCC also hold singles mixers on Christmas Eve, since nobody has to be at work the next day.
| 264 |
Taqyia2Me Mon, May 31, 2010 6:18:54am |
| 265 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, May 31, 2010 6:19:47am |
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
Sec. V (a)
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
| 266 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 6:24:23am |
re: #265 Shiplord Kirel
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
But...but...but...sputter.
| 267 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 6:27:58am |
One of my oldest friends today changed his Facebook profile picture to an image of Israel covered with the colors of the Palestinian flag. I have hidden him for now and may defriend him later.
Another guy I know on Facebook, an "ethical vegan", is planning to chain himself to the Israeli consulate in New York.
I'm sure most of my family are weeping over the innocent "activists" who only ever wanted to bring "aid" to the poor people of Gaza.
This action was planned to bring about just such an outcome: a bunch of useful idiots along with a handful of armed martyrdom seekers. Shake and bake.
| 268 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 6:30:20am |
re: #9 Soap_Man
Does the fact that I just heard gunshots outside my apartment give me some king of street cred?
Because I can use some street cred.
re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist
Hell, I just heard gunshots earlier when I was walking home from the store.
Sure, you get street cred. Me too.
When I lived in Mexico City's Pink Zone neighborhood [Liverpool 193], there were two 'night spots' on either side of my apartment. On more than one occasion, I was awakened in the wee hours by arguments between patrons, usually off-duty body-guards, that turned into shots being fired at the car of the escaping antagonist by the off-duty cop. One time, it was an argument between a woman and a cop. She punched him in the face and her escort stuffed her into a car and they sped off, with the cop firing as the car careened down Avenida Chapultepec.
Good times, good times ...
| 269 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 6:36:13am |
The UN weighs in:
"The United Nations said it was shocked at the loss of lives and urged that Israel take no further steps that could endanger civilian lives. "We wish to make clear that such tragedies are entirely avoidable if Israel heeds the repeated calls of the international community to end its counterproductive and unacceptable blockade of Gaza," said a joint statement from Robert Serry, UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process and Filippo Grandi, Commissioner-General of the UN Relief and Works Agency."
Both the so-called "peace process" and UNWRA exist solely to discredit and destroy Israel.
| 270 |
Taqyia2Me Mon, May 31, 2010 6:40:03am |
re: #269 Cato the Elder
Ironic how one of the very first UN actions was the mandate creating the modern state of Israel shortly after WW II. Ever since, it seems the UN has sought to reverse that action.
| 271 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 6:41:16am |
Thanks to all the Veterans today...We remember and thank you for all your sacrifices for America..
| 272 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 6:45:35am |
The Greek friend with the flag of "Palestine" covering all of Israel for his Facebook pic added this motto: Λευτεριά στην Παλαιστίνη.
"Freedom for Palestine."
Freedom, in this case, meaning the end of Israel.
| 273 |
What, me worry? Mon, May 31, 2010 6:50:30am |
re: #272 Cato the Elder
The Greek friend with the flag of "Palestine" covering all of Israel for his Facebook pic added this motto: Λευτεριά στην Παλαιστί&# 957;η.
"Freedom for Palestine."
Freedom, in this case, meaning the end of Israel.
Have you tried talking to this fellow? I'm not sure you can, but if you're really good friends, maybe. Like ask him why Gaza continues to attack even though Israel has completely left the country. There's all the aid Israel gives Gaza and how Israel was happy to allow the flotillas to dock if the aid could be inspected.
Last night we were talking about propaganda. What's happening today is all a part of that. How does Israel stop the negative propaganda? Through education, but who will listen.
Sorry for your friend.
| 274 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 6:57:06am |
re: #273 marjoriemoon
What's to talk about? People like him were the targets of this planned propaganda exercise, and it's working.
| 275 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 6:58:35am |
LIVEBLOG: Flotilla Updates Throughout the Day
Fucking amazing.
| 276 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:02:44am |
I see the MSM hasn't changed when it comes to bad reporting when it comes to Israel: 10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy
| 277 |
What, me worry? Mon, May 31, 2010 7:02:46am |
re: #274 Cato the Elder
What's to talk about? People like him were the targets of this planned propaganda exercise, and it's working.
Yea. Covering Israel with a flag of Palestine means death to Jews, btw. Sometimes we don't know people like we think we do.
| 278 |
What, me worry? Mon, May 31, 2010 7:06:20am |
re: #276 Killgore Trout
I see the MSM hasn't changed when it comes to bad reporting when it comes to Israel: 10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy
Jpost is reporting 15 now.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
I noticed a good amount of posters on CNN are pro-Israel. That was somewhat surprising. I'm not going to venture over to Yahoo.
| 279 |
What, me worry? Mon, May 31, 2010 7:14:21am |
I'm bracing for another "Jenin" incident.
Think I'll go play some games while hubby makes beer...
Catch ya'll later.
| 280 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:15:40am |
re: #276 Killgore Trout
I see the MSM hasn't changed when it comes to bad reporting when it comes to Israel: 10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy
Not included in that report (naturally).
Peace Activist stabs IDF soldier
| 281 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:16:32am |
re: #278 marjoriemoon
I noticed a good amount of posters on CNN are pro-Israel. That was somewhat surprising. I'm not going to venture over to Yahoo.
I think this situation looks pretty clear cut. It doesn't take much to find the video of the "activists" attacking the soldiers even though CNN chose not to include it in their report.
I think the Israelis made a huge mistake by not being properly armed and they waited too long to use deadly force. If they'd dropped 2-3 "activists" immediately it could have saved some lives.
I can't believe that the flotilla isn't on the ocean floor yet.
| 282 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:17:09am |
re: #280 reine.de.tout
It's amazing that they leave that out. They don't even mention it.
| 283 |
Summer Seale Mon, May 31, 2010 7:19:20am |
All the Jew-haters and Nazis are coming out on CNN's boards, saying that all Jews should be killed and exterminated, all the while as they call Israel a "Nazi state". It's loathsome.
[Link: edition.cnn.com...]
| 284 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:19:30am |
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows
| 285 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 7:19:51am |
re: #282 Killgore Trout
It's amazing that they leave that out. They don't even mention it.
The media doesn't see how ironic it is that they write a Peace Activist stabbing a solders in the gut with a knife.
| 286 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 7:21:59am |
re: #283 Summer
All the Jew-haters and Nazis are coming out on CNN's boards, saying that all Jews should be killed and exterminated, all the while as they call Israel a "Nazi state". It's loathsome.
[Link: edition.cnn.com...]
Good morning. I see we have our own little crop of jew haters out this morning.
| 287 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:23:02am |
I'm waiting for Olsonist to come out and ding me down.
| 288 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:27:50am |
re: #141 Nimed
Tomorrow morning we're going to have a "say the most hyperbolic shit you can think of, as long as it is sympathetic toward Israel or against Arabs/Europe/Teh Left" contest in LGF. Mandy was ready to tell Obama to go fuck himself and bomb Lebanon (not Lebanon, Hezbollah!) yesterday, so we can expect solutions involving nuclear bombs tomorrow. Anyone up for a bet? No warnings, though.
What you will see this morning is folks trying to counter the heavily anti-Israel bias in news reports such as this one:
re: #276 Killgore Trout
I see the MSM hasn't changed when it comes to bad reporting when it comes to Israel: 10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy
| 289 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 7:29:05am |
re: #288 reine.de.tout
BUT, BUT, MANDY W1NGNUT$!!11!!!!
//
| 290 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, May 31, 2010 7:30:42am |
Bibi is going home early because of this: [Link: blogs.wsj.com...]
| 291 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:30:53am |
re: #255 Summer
Good morning all.
It's the same thing all over again, isn't it? So manywishful thinkersuseful idiots get into bad straits with people who just want to use them and get the body count up for political purposes. And no matter how many times it happens, those same kinds of people will do it again, and again, and again.
FTFY
| 292 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:33:32am |
I'm gonna ding down the whole lot of you. Sorry. Except Cato.
/suck up
| 293 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:36:16am |
re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm gonna ding down the whole lot of you. Sorry. Except Cato.
/suck up
I up-dinged you. Now, you'll feel guilty. Ruined your day, did I?
\
| 294 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:38:11am |
re: #293 Gang of One
I up-dinged you. Now, you'll feel guilty. Ruined your day, did I?
GAK!! My goal was to sweep the bottom 10!! The Horror!!
| 295 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 7:39:07am |
re: #290 PhillyPretzel
Bibi is going home early because of this: [Link: blogs.wsj.com...]
Why do they say the raid was botched. It was ambushed. Don't put the onus on Israel, WSJ, put it on the terror-scum who decided that relief supplies were less important than Jew-Murder.
| 296 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 7:39:42am |
re: #294 Cannadian Club Akbar
GAK!! My goal was to sweep the bottom 10!! The Horror!!
LOL
I understand if you sweep the bottom ten you get a nice toaster
| 297 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:40:41am |
re: #296 HoosierHoops
LOL
I understand if you sweep the bottom ten you get a nice toaster
I lke toast. And waffles.
| 298 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, May 31, 2010 7:41:13am |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
Hmm, I am rethinking about subscription. Maybe IBD?
| 299 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 7:41:37am |
re: #207 ralphieboy
Problem is that the orthodox have a real stranglehold on politics and policy.
Read YNet much?
| 300 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:42:47am |
The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.
IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.
| 301 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 7:42:49am |
re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar
I lke toast. And waffles.
Well you have to sweep the top ten to get a Waffle maker..
You sweep all top ten and bottom ten in the same day you win a new Beemer..
| 302 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 7:43:05am |
re: #296 HoosierHoops
LOL
I understand if you sweep the bottom ten you get a nice toaster
Yes. The problem is that the toaster is awarded right as Stinky lines up his boot to kick you out. It's a distraction to keep trolls from spewing on his boots.
| 303 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, May 31, 2010 7:43:50am |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
Also keep in mind that the piece was written by the Associated Press.
| 304 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:44:37am |
re: #301 HoosierHoops
Well you have to sweep the top ten to get a Waffle maker..
You sweep all top ten and bottom ten in the same day you win a new Beemer..
Charles is an asshole.
Lizards rule!!
/This isn't gonna end well..
| 305 |
Liberal Classic Mon, May 31, 2010 7:45:56am |
re: #255 Summer
They act as if Israel just wanted to storm the ship and kill people randomly, as if this is what democracies do simply because they are fighting against "oppressed people".
But this is exactly the message the protesters want to convey. Never mind that every country sees a national interest in controlling its borders and asserts the authority to capture people attempting to violate those borders. The purpose of this protest is to question not just the legitimacy of Israel, but the legitimacy of western democracy. The protesters want to make Israel look bad by forcing it into exercising control over its border. Since Israel's largest detractors are either dictatorships or theocracies, a propaganda victory against a democratic government serves to suppress democratic movements in those countries at home.
| 306 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:45:59am |
| 307 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 7:46:21am |
re: #300 reine.de.tout
As usual, Israel tries to use minimum force and is met by terrorists and their supports bent on hurting as many Jews as possible. May God speed the recovery of those Israelis wounded in battle, and may He damn those terrorists killed to Hell.
| 308 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 7:46:53am |
re: #303 PhillyPretzel
Also keep in mind that the piece was written by the Associated Press.
Understood. That does change things.
| 309 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 7:47:59am |
re: #304 Cannadian Club Akbar
Charles is an asshole.
Lizards rule!!/This isn't gonna end well..
LOL
I find that It really shows what a person is made of if the only way they can get published is at 3am when everybody is asleep...
Real class acts
| 310 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:48:11am |
re: #305 Liberal Classic
But this is exactly the message the protesters want to convey. Never mind that every country sees a national interest in controlling its borders and asserts the authority to capture people attempting to violate those borders. The purpose of this protest is to question not just the legitimacy of Israel, but the legitimacy of western democracy. The protesters want to make Israel look bad by forcing it into exercising control over its border. Since Israel's largest detractors are either dictatorships or theocracies, a propaganda victory against a democratic government serves to suppress democratic movements in those countries at home.
And I don't know whether to laugh or cry that so many so-called liberal, progressive people will swallow the distortions hook, line and sinker, as will the wingnuts to my distant right.
| 311 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:48:45am |
re: #307 Dark_Falcon
As usual, Israel tries to use minimum force and is met by terrorists and their supports bent on hurting as many Jews as possible. May God speed the recovery of those Israelis wounded in battle, and may He damn those terrorists killed to Hell.
And as usual, the reports in the media don't come close to mentioning that, and in fact, portray the Israeli forces as being the aggressors.
The flotilla was told they could unload their cargo at Ashdod seaport and deliver it to Gaza after appropriate security checks. They refused to do that. Why? If the purpose was to get aid to Gaza, why refuse a process that would ensure the aid got there?
| 312 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:50:33am |
re: #311 reine.de.tout
And as usual, the reports in the media don't come close to mentioning that, and in fact, portray the Israeli forces as being the aggressors.
The flotilla was told they could unload their cargo at Ashdod seaport and deliver it to Gaza after appropriate security checks. They refused to do that. Why? If the purpose was to get aid to Gaza, why refuse a process that would ensure the aid got there?
Because ... because ... because ... it's the Joooooz!
| 313 |
sandbox Mon, May 31, 2010 7:51:09am |
Turkey's support for the flotilla and other anti-Israel actions has apparently hurt them re Israeli tourism to that country.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
I didn't know there were so many Israeli's visiting Turkey.
| 314 |
Liberal Classic Mon, May 31, 2010 7:52:31am |
re: #310 Gang of One
And I don't know whether to laugh or cry that so many so-called liberal, progressive people will swallow the distortions hook, line and sinker, as will the wingnuts to my distant right.
I really don't get it, either. I've had my far left friends defend Patrick Buchanan as not being anti-Semitic. I was like, "wait what?"
| 315 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:52:55am |
If we invade Turkey from behind, would Greece help?
//
| 316 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 7:53:12am |
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
| 317 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:53:54am |
re: #315 Cannadian Club Akbar
If we invade Turkey from behind, would Greece help?
//
D'oh!!!
/face palm
//well played, actually
| 318 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:54:58am |
re: #314 Liberal Classic
I really don't get it, either. I've had my far left friends defend Patrick Buchanan as not being anti-Semitic. I was like, "wait what?"
I think, Classic, that if you scratch a radical or reactionary, you expose an irrational bigot.
| 319 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 7:56:26am |
re: #316 RogueOne
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
Why a 4am raid? I don't understand the thought process to the raid...Why not just stop them during daylight? Anybody know?
| 320 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 7:56:36am |
re: #316 RogueOne
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
Ballsy and displaying good faith. The intent of the IDF was NOT a confrontation.
/crickets ...
| 321 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 7:56:44am |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
Why do they say the raid was botched. It was ambushed. Don't put the onus on Israel, WSJ, put it on the terror-scum who decided that relief supplies were less important than Jew-Murder.
I suspect that they would not describe a raid by Israeli commandos as successful under any circumstances, even if the ships were captured with no casualties.
| 322 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 7:57:09am |
Lefties are doing the usual anti-Israeli thing: Comments on Huffpo....
I don't know about anyone else, but I find it impossible to believe that Israeli commandos rappelling onto a ship from a helicopter were "surprised" or "taken off guard" so badly that they were stripped of their helmets and equipment and thrown from the top deck to the lower deck, let alone being so unprepared that one of the passengers seized one of the soldiers' weapons and opened fire.
Smells like a giant steaming pile of bovine feces to me.
...
Why am I not surprised at this?Benjamin Nuttinhoney and Israel start trouble and then run and cower behind the U.S. because they know we'll always defend them.
I say, let them figure this one out on their own. We've got enough troubles of our own here.
...
"including knives and clubs"
Wow, heavily armed commandos are so threatened they have to murder 10 innocents because they have clubs? IDF has got to be the most over-rated army on the planet. Israel, it's called piracy, and you are now a criminal nation. Maybe you don't have any "right to exist"
...and that's just the first 3 comments.
| 323 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 7:57:21am |
re: #316 RogueOne
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
The Israelis were trying to avoid hurting people. They need better less-lethal ammo for their standard firearms. Some riot rounds from shotguns would have taken the fight out of those terror-lovers. Though the IDF has never shown enthusiasm for shotguns.
| 324 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 7:58:11am |
re: #305 Liberal Classic
...Never mind that every country except the USA sees a national interest in controlling its borders and asserts the authority to capture people attempting to violate those borders...
FIFY
Sorry, couldn't resist.
| 325 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 7:58:18am |
re: #314 Liberal Classic
I really don't get it, either. I've had my far left friends defend Patrick Buchanan as not being anti-Semitic. I was like, "wait what?"
People don't like me (odd) because I call a spade a spade. If your friend is an idiot, call him/her that. It is for the best.
| 326 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 7:58:21am |
re: #319 HoosierHoops
Why a 4am raid? I don't understand the thought process to the raid...Why not just stop them during daylight? Anybody know?
They did it at 4am because they were going in with paintballs. I know none of this is funny but I would have loved to have been in on that briefing.
| 327 |
TampaKnight Mon, May 31, 2010 7:59:27am |
The Huffington Post has used this day to run half-truth anti-war propaganda while devoting a tiny half page story to our actual Veterans and the dead, and the comments contained in that half page story are absolutely fucking disgusting and pathetic.
Seriously, fuck that hate site.
| 328 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:00:17am |
re: #319 HoosierHoops
Why a 4am raid? I don't understand the thought process to the raid...Why not just stop them during daylight? Anybody know?
I know they raid meth labs at 4AM here. Gett'em while they are geeked...
| 329 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:00:58am |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
Why do they say the raid was botched. It was ambushed. Don't put the onus on Israel, WSJ, put it on the terror-scum who decided that relief supplies were less important than Jew-Murder.
How was it ambushed? Were there hundreds of "Jew-murderers" swimming along side the flotilla just underwater with little bits of reeds to breathe through and that the "terror-scum" climbed up suddenly and surprised the defenseless IDF forces?
I know you're simply an objective observer, but really...
| 330 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 8:01:16am |
re: #328 Cannadian Club Akbar
I know they raid meth labs at 4AM here. Gett'em while they are geeked...
They went in with less force than a typical US police department would go into someones home looking for a few grams of weed.
| 331 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:01:38am |
re: #322 Killgore Trout
Lefties are doing the usual anti-Israeli thing: Comments on Huffpo...
...and that's just the first 3 comments.
That last comment was incredibly ignorant. In hand-to-hand fighting knives are quite deadly. Often a cop or soldier confronted with a knife has to shoot right away. If you let the enemy close, a skilled knife fighter can cut the gun right out of your hand. Cops die that way every year in the US.
| 332 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:01:55am |
re: #325 Cannadian Club Akbar
People don't like me (odd) because I call a spade a spade. If your friend is an idiot, call him/her that. It is for the best.
That's not why I hate you...it's actually because you can't spell Canajun.
| 333 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:02:01am |
re: #327 TampaKnight
The Huffington Post has used this day to run half-truth anti-war propaganda while devoting a tiny half page story to our actual Veterans and the dead, and the comments contained in that half page story are absolutely fucking disgusting and pathetic.
Seriously, fuck that hate site.
Their readership can be very ugly, especially when it comes to Israel but sadly the lefty blogs are more accurate than the wingnuts these days. As long as the conservative blogs keep pushing dishonest conspiracies and meaningless outrageous outrages I'll still be getting my news from the lefties.
| 335 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:02:42am |
re: #331 Dark_Falcon
That last comment was incredibly ignorant. In hand-to-hand fighting knives are quite deadly. Often a cop or soldier confronted with a knife has to shoot right away. If you let the enemy close, a skilled knife fighter can cut the gun right out of your hand. Cops die that way every year in the US.
Especially since there's video on one soldier being stabbed repeatedly.
| 336 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:03:33am |
re: #332 Spare O'Lake
That's not why I hate you...it's actually because you can't spell Canajun.
What!! I thought you were Cannadian!!
/
| 337 |
TampaKnight Mon, May 31, 2010 8:03:59am |
re: #333 Killgore Trout
Their readership can be very ugly, especially when it comes to Israel but sadly the lefty blogs are more accurate than the wingnuts these days. As long as the conservative blogs keep pushing dishonest conspiracies and meaningless outrageous outrages I'll still be getting my news from the lefties.
The shit they are running today IS NOT correct! It's slanderous bullshit and it's hilarious considering NOW they're concerned over $1T (over 9 years) when they're running around passing $1T bills left and right!
And this is NOT the fucking day to run this bullshit.
| 338 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 8:03:59am |
re: #319 HoosierHoops
Why a 4am raid? I don't understand the thought process to the raid...Why not just stop them during daylight? Anybody know?
Common police tactic. Get em with their guard down.
| 339 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:04:05am |
re: #329 darthstar
How was it ambushed? Were there hundreds of "Jew-murderers" swimming along side the flotilla just underwater with little bits of reeds to breathe through and that the "terror-scum" climbed up suddenly and surprised the defenseless IDF forces?
I know you're simply an objective observer, but really...
re: #300 reine.de.tout
The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.
re: #284 reine.de.tout
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
And see video here:
re: #280 reine.de.tout
Not included in that report (naturally).
Peace Activist stabs IDF soldier[Video]
| 340 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:04:13am |
Twitter feed: IDFSpokesperson
99 truckloads (2,129 tons) of humanitarian aid + 300,000 liters of diesel fuel were imported into Gaza yesterday. 43 minutes ago via web
That's a frequent occurrence. How much "aid" is on that stupid ship?
| 341 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:04:16am |
re: #331 Dark_Falcon
Haarets has a photo of a 'left-wing' activist peacefully holding up a knife:
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
| 342 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:04:29am |
re: #329 darthstar
How was it ambushed? Were there hundreds of "Jew-murderers" swimming along side the flotilla just underwater with little bits of reeds to breathe through and that the "terror-scum" climbed up suddenly and surprised the defenseless IDF forces?
I know you're simply an objective observer, but really...
They were attacked as soon as they boarded by an enemy who had kept their weapons concealed until that point. The enemy had previously proclaimed non-violence as their policy, only to attack the boarding detachments with lethal weapons without provocation.
| 343 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 8:05:10am |
re: #334 Cannadian Club Akbar
You didn't post a link.
Conyers seeks federal probe of Aiyana's death
[Link: www.freep.com...]
| 344 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:06:24am |
re: #335 Killgore Trout
Especially since there's video on one soldier being stabbed repeatedly.
And don't forget, radical Muslims are experts at back-stabbing.
| 345 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:06:29am |
| 346 |
sandbox Mon, May 31, 2010 8:07:49am |
re: #338 The Shadow Do
FYI the Israeli Navy announced publicly in advance that they would board the boats. We can all second guess the specific boarding tactics. I myself thought why not just disable the boats--say throw nets around the motors. But then the boats would sit there--for days maybe--and then Israeli Navy would still have to board them.
| 347 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:08:39am |
re: #341 jaunte
Haarets has a photo of a 'left-wing' activist peacefully holding up a knife:
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
That looks like a Islamist Arab, not a peace activist. I don't know how anyone can see him differently.
| 348 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:09:31am |
re: #329 darthstar
How was it ambushed? Were there hundreds of "Jew-murderers" swimming along side the flotilla just underwater with little bits of reeds to breathe through and that the "terror-scum" climbed up suddenly and surprised the defenseless IDF forces?
I know you're simply an objective observer, but really...
Do who do you believe, "peace activists" or your lying eyes?
| 349 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:09:50am |
re: #339 reine.de.tout
Yes, people on the boats fought back...10 or 15 of them died. It doesn't matter if you think Israel was right to 'defend itself' by attacking the flotilla or if the activists ("jew murderers" if it makes a person feel better to dehumanize them) were right to try to defend themselves. It's a tragedy and it's only going to escalate tensions.
| 350 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:09:51am |
Eventually, Charles will start a thread with an honor to our fallen guys and gals. Me thinks we should comment like this
....
Or come up with something else.
| 351 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 8:09:51am |
re: #326 RogueOne
They did it at 4am because they were going in with paintballs. I know none of this is funny but I would have loved to have been in on that briefing.
Sir?
Yes?
What happens if this ship has armed terrorists aboard?
We board at 4am...
Sir?
Yes?
So if there are terrorists aboard..
Yes?
We won't be able to see them also?
You'll be armed with paintguns
Sir?
Yes?
What happens after the first time I shoot somebody?
With your paintgun?
Yes Sir..
And?
They don't die sir..What then?
*looks at watch*
Almost 0400 grab a paintgun and lets go kick some ass!
Sir?
WHAT?
What if they have a baseball bat?
A baseball bat? These are peace activists boy! Now grab a paintgun!
Sir?
WHHHAAATT!
Can I change from yellow to red paint balls?
WHY?
Maybe it'll fool them to thinking they are bleeding or something...
Great Idea! Everybody change to the red paintballs
/
| 352 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:10:09am |
re: #343 RogueOne
Conyers seeks federal probe of Aiyana's death
[Link: www.freep.com...]
Detroit is in trouble: the family has retained Geoffrey Fieger as their lawyer.
| 353 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:10:16am |
re: #341 jaunte
Haarets has a photo of a 'left-wing' activist peacefully holding up a knife:
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Wow.
That's an ugly looking knife!
| 354 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 31, 2010 8:11:23am |
re: #348 Alouette
They're using cameras. Can they do that?
| 355 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:11:40am |
re: #349 darthstar
Yes, people on the boats fought back...10 or 15 of them died. It doesn't matter if you think Israel was right to 'defend itself' by attacking the flotilla or if the activists ("jew murderers" if it makes a person feel better to dehumanize them) were right to try to defend themselves. It's a tragedy and it's only going to escalate tensions.
It's a tragedy that did not have to happen. It was forced by the people in the flotilla.
They were told they could come offload their cargo and deliver it to Gaza after appropriate security checks. They refused. If their purpose was really to get the aid to Gaza, why refuse an offer that would ensure the aid would get there?
| 356 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:12:41am |
re: #349 darthstar
Yes, people on the boats fought back...10 or 15 of them died. It doesn't matter if you think Israel was right to 'defend itself' by attacking the flotilla or if the activists ("jew murderers" if it makes a person feel better to dehumanize them) were right to try to defend themselves. It's a tragedy and it's only going to escalate tensions.
It is not tragic at all. A bunch of murderous Islamists and their supporters decided to live out their fantasies of murdering Jews and got wasted. The IDF acted with courage and with as much mercy as humanly possible.
End Story.
| 357 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:13:19am |
re: #346 sandbox
FYI the Israeli Navy announced publicly in advance that they would board the boats. We can all second guess the specific boarding tactics. I myself thought why not just disable the boats--say throw nets around the motors. But then the boats would sit there--for days maybe--and then Israeli Navy would still have to board them.
There were 6 boats.
5 of them surrendered peacefully.
The 6th boat, by all Israeli accounts and through scores of video evidence, was not peaceful at ALL.
We can see here how the soldiers were assaulted the moment they got aboard.
In case you don't like that type of video, we have camera footage from onboard showing "peace activists" assaulting soldiers with knives:
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
| 358 |
RogueOne Mon, May 31, 2010 8:13:20am |
re: #352 Dark_Falcon
Detroit is in trouble: the family has retained Geoffrey Fieger as their lawyer.
I know. He is such an asshat. I wish they would have gone with someone else.
| 359 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:14:07am |
re: #347 Dark_Falcon
That looks like a Islamist Arab, not a peace activist. I don't know how anyone can see him differently.
The language is just another tactical weapon being used in this war.
| 360 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:15:27am |
re: #348 Alouette
Do who do you believe, "peace activists" or your lying eyes?
[Video]
Good on the IDF for getting the footage out so quickly. Most of the media won't show it, but putting it up on YouTube does help a good bit.
| 361 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:07am |
The only crime I see in this is in the order to board with paintball guns. Bet that doesn't happen again.
| 362 |
Liberal Classic Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:07am |
re: #340 Killgore Trout
Twitter feed: IDFSpokesperson
That's a frequent occurrence. How much "aid" is on that stupid ship?
According to the BBC:
"The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday..."
Source: [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
The "flotilla" then carries the equivalent of several days worth, as compared with the aid that comes in daily by truck.
| 363 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:17am |
re: #360 Dark_Falcon
Good on the IDF for getting the footage out so quickly. Most of the media won't show it, but putting it up on YouTube does help a good bit.
Don't bring slingshots and marbles to a paintball fight.
| 364 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:18am |
| 365 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:23am |
re: #348 Alouette
Do who do you believe, "peace activists" or your lying eyes?
[Video]
True, people fought back...are you saying the Israeli soldiers weren't trained for possible resistance? I'm not defending the people on the flotilla, and I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of those killed in the attack.
My opinion is simply that this action is not going to benefit anyone involved, and it probably won't be a PR success for Israel - not that they care what people think about them.
| 366 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:16:46am |
re: #360 Dark_Falcon
Good on the IDF for getting the footage out so quickly. Most of the lame-stream media won't show it, but putting it up on YouTube does help a good bit.
FTFY
| 367 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:17:03am |
This is clearly an intended provocation by Turkey and Islamist forces. They were looking for a fight, and are going to milk it for all the propaganda value they can.
I must say I am impressed with the Israeli media response this time around. Usually they take WAY too long to get their own version of events out to the public.
There is enough out there to show that the boat on which the violence occurred had some major fighting from both sides.
Twitter posts in which people comment that the Israelis shot sleeping peace activists are completely discredited.
| 369 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:17:42am |
re: #362 Liberal Classic
According to the BBC:
"The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday..."
Source: [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
The "flotilla" then carries the equivalent of several days worth, as compared with the aid that comes in daily by truck.
The yearly "flotilla" carries less than Israel brings in during a regular week. Is that what you meant to say?
| 370 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:18:13am |
re: #365 darthstar
True, people fought back...are you saying the Israeli soldiers weren't trained for possible resistance? I'm not defending the people on the flotilla, and I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of those killed in the attack.
My opinion is simply that this action is not going to benefit anyone involved, and it probably won't be a PR success for Israel - not that they care what people think about them.
It was an Epic Cluster Fuck.
| 371 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:18:35am |
| 372 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, May 31, 2010 8:18:38am |
re: #364 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I love that line; "Now that is a Knife."
| 373 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:19:12am |
Why is everything blowing up in front of my eyes?
| 374 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:19:39am |
re: #362 Liberal Classic
According to the BBC:
"The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday..."
Source: [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
The "flotilla" then carries the equivalent of several days worth, as compared with the aid that comes in daily by truck.
15,000 tonnes/week on average enters gaza through israel.
Israel offered to let the aid through, but would not permit the ships to reach Gaza.
It is called a blockade.
For those concerned with "international waters"...
From the Muqata:
According to the San Remo Manual it is permissible under rule 67(a) to attack neutral vessels on the high seas when the vessels “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.”
| 375 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:20:19am |
re: #365 darthstar
True, people fought back...are you saying the Israeli soldiers weren't trained for possible resistance? I'm not defending the people on the flotilla, and I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of those killed in the attack.
My opinion is simply that this action is not going to benefit anyone involved, and it probably won't be a PR success for Israel - not that they care what people think about them.
Fought Back?! Sorry, but that merits a downding. They started the fighting to begin with. The IDF announced their intentions to board and did not act with hostile intent. The Islamist attacks were without provocation. They are unworthy of your defense, Darthstar.
| 376 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:20:23am |
| 377 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:20:59am |
re: #349 darthstar
Yes, people on the boats fought back...10 or 15 of them died. It doesn't matter if you think Israel was right to 'defend itself' by attacking the flotilla or if the activists ("jew murderers" if it makes a person feel better to dehumanize them) were right to try to defend themselves. It's a tragedy and it's only going to escalate tensions.
Msaybe "it doesn't matter" to you, but it matters to me.
| 378 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 31, 2010 8:21:43am |
What supplies were supposed to be on the ship?
| 379 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:22:36am |
re: #365 darthstar
True, people fought back...are you saying the Israeli soldiers weren't trained for possible resistance? I'm not defending the people on the flotilla, and I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of those killed in the attack.
My opinion is simply that this action is not going to benefit anyone involved, and it probably won't be a PR success for Israel - not that they care what people think about them.
The entire exercise was designed to be a PR disaster for Israel.
Have you seen in those reports any mention of the IDF soldiers injured before they began to fire?
The Israeli's were armed with paintball rifles, and their instructions were not to fire. They asked for and received permission to fire after this incident:
At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
| 380 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:22:41am |
re: #378 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What supplies were supposed to be on the ship?
Food, medical supplies, concrete ...
| 381 |
sandbox Mon, May 31, 2010 8:23:03am |
re: #365 darthstar
However, it does serve to increase Israeli deterrent ability. As in, Israel sets up a blockade (along with Egypt) and then Israel uses its military to enforce the blockade, despite bad PR.
| 382 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:23:15am |
| 383 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:23:42am |
| 384 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:23:57am |
re: #375 Dark_Falcon
Fought Back?! Sorry, but that merits a downding. They started the fighting to begin with. The IDF announced their intentions to board and did not act with hostile intent. The Islamist attacks were without provocation. They are unworthy of your defense, Darthstar.
You can say they attacked the Israelis, but they weren't the ones coming in by helicopter and dropping onto Israeli boats.
There's offense and defense in any conflict. In most conflicts, the team advancing on the opposition is considered the offensive side, while the team being advanced upon is the defense. Unless you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan.
| 385 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:25:01am |
| 386 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:25:03am |
re: #376 darthstar
Umm...NO! The IDF troopers had strict ROE and they adhered to them until they were attacked. Are you saying the IDF guys shouldn't have defended themselves? The blockade thing wouldn't be necessary if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel or blowing up pizza parlors with suicide bombers!
| 387 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:25:20am |
re: #378 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What supplies were supposed to be on the ship?
Probably not much. These ships are mostly symbolic and the real purpose is to carry activists not supplies.
| 388 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:25:30am |
re: #380 Gang of One
Food, medical supplies, concrete ...
The concrete apparently was the thing Israel was most afraid of. They say it could have been used for bad things (according to NPR right now).
| 389 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 31, 2010 8:26:00am |
re: #384 darthstar
Darth? I don't know enough to speak intelligently on the attack. But I am siding with the Israelies on this one, the film ain't lying.
That being said, up-ding for the Eagles reference.
| 390 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:26:11am |
re: #379 reine.de.tout
* The ” peace activists” tried to bring down an IDF helicopter
* The “peace activists” pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked
* IDF soldiers were equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, as well as handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations.
* The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
* At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
* Only after this injury did troops ask for permission to use live fire.
| 391 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:26:33am |
re: #365 darthstar
True, people fought back...are you saying the Israeli soldiers weren't trained for possible resistance? I'm not defending the people on the flotilla, and I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of those killed in the attack.
My opinion is simply that this action is not going to benefit anyone involved, and it probably won't be a PR success for Israel - not that they care what people think about them.
Israel tried for days prior to reach a "reasonable" agreement. They act according to international maritime law. These boats were hostile entities, and were looking for a PR incident.
I read somewhere the reasoning for Israel intercepting the ships.
The logic is two-fold:
1) Israel will get bad PR either way. If the ships get to Gaza, activists pronounce on the evils of Israel. If Israel intercepts the ships they get yelled at too.
2) They let the ships go through the first 8 times. Last time they intercepted the ship. This time it was much bigger with far more people. They decided that if they left these "humanitarian ships" go unchecked, eventually weapons smuggling will start happening. They may as well take the inevitable PR loss and keep the blockade in force.
As well, I understand the Israelis were not prepared for the violence they encountered. If you read the YNet link I posted earlier, it's clear the IDF was expecting peaceful resistance, a political PR thing. They were NOT expecting to get physically attacked.
I have also read that the 'activists' were trying to grab the weapons from the soldiers. I will not be surprised at all if activists getting a hold of live-ammo (last resort) Israeli pistols is the critical moment where lives were lost.
| 392 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:27:00am |
re: #388 darthstar
The concrete apparently was the thing Israel was most afraid of. They say it could have been used for bad things (according to NPR right now).
Building bunkers, I read somewhere.
| 393 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, May 31, 2010 8:27:12am |
re: #388 darthstar
The concrete apparently was the thing Israel was most afraid of. They say it could have been used for bad things (according to NPR right now).
That concrete was only going to be used for peaceful purposes like building bunkers for Hamas.
| 394 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:27:57am |
Why aren't the youtube links i post turning into embed videos? How do I make them embedded on LGF?
| 395 |
Liberal Classic Mon, May 31, 2010 8:28:01am |
re: #384 darthstar
In most conflicts, the team advancing on the opposition is considered the offensive side, while the team being advanced upon is the defense.
I'm not sure how to respond to this, except to say the ship came from Cyprus and was attempting to dock at Gaza City. They were ordered to divert to Ashdod, Israel, where the cargo could be searched but they refused to comply. Who is being advanced on?
| 396 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:28:16am |
re: #384 darthstar
You can say they attacked the Israelis, but they weren't the ones coming in by helicopter and dropping onto Israeli boats.
There's offense and defense in any conflict. In most conflicts, the team advancing on the opposition is considered the offensive side, while the team being advanced upon is the defense. Unless you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan.
That's just great, as long as you can ignore the fact that the blockade is necessary to prevent Hamas from importing missiles from Iran and Syria which they have and continue to shoot into Israeli towns.
Who's really on defence here?
| 397 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:29:33am |
re: #391 Joo-LiZ
But, but the UN said.... fuck them. I hate the UN.
| 398 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:29:55am |
re: #380 Gang of One
Food, medical supplies, concrete ...
I thought cement was forbidden because Hamas uses it for bomb shelters.
| 399 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:29:56am |
re: #396 Spare O'Lake
That's just great, as long as you can ignore the fact that the blockade is necessary to prevent Hamas from importing missiles from Iran and Syria which they have and continue to shoot into Israeli towns.
Who's really on defence here?
You, apparently.
| 401 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:30:42am |
Flotilla sponsor tagged by the CIA:
1. Prominent among the coalition organizations participating in the aid flotilla scheduled to arrive in the Gaza Strip is the Turkish IHH (Insani Yardim Vakfi, IHH, “humanitarian relief fund”). It is a radical Islamic organization, established in 1992 by a member of the Turkish Refah Party and formally registered in Istanbul in 1995.2. As far back as 1996, it was identified by the CIA as a radical Islamic humanitarian organization named International Humanitaire Hilfsorganization (IHH) a.k.a International Humanitarian Relief Organization, with its main offices in Zagreb and Sarajevo and headquarters in Germany. The CIA report noted that the organization had connections with extremist groups in Iran and Algeria.
[Link: www.terrorism-info.org.il...]
| 402 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:30:53am |
| 403 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 31, 2010 8:31:08am |
Tamie, (my niece) is in Afganistan. Those poor fanatical bastards. :)...
| 404 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:32:09am |
re: #265 Shiplord Kirel
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL!
The media is repeating over and over: "International Water" "High Seas" Implication being it was unlawful. This was a completely lawful interdiction of blockade-running.
| 405 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:32:29am |
re: #396 Spare O'Lake
That's just great, as long as you can ignore the fact that the blockade is necessary to prevent Hamas from importing missiles from Iran and Syria which they have and continue to shoot into Israeli towns.
Who's really on defence here?
Updinged for truth. Israel acted within its rights, this is clear.
| 406 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:32:31am |
Happy Memorial Day, all
And THANK YOU to all those who are and who have served!
As General George Patton said ;
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived
| 407 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:33:02am |
Defending those who help Hamas kill Israelis?
| 409 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:33:57am |
Question.
Why is this the day Palestine is doing this?
| 411 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:34:29am |
re: #398 MandyManners
It is. Don't know what else, cement struck me as odd until I remembered who runs Gaza!
| 412 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:34:57am |
| 413 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:35:03am |
re: #401 jaunte
Flotilla sponsor tagged by the CIA:
Surprise, surprise. That's probably where the activists Radical Islamists came from. They used this "relief flotilla" to fulfill their desire to attack Jews. They hate anything they deem "non-Islamic".
| 414 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:35:08am |
re: #384 darthstar
There's offense and defense in any conflict.
A flotilla carrying supplies to a group whose charter calls for your elimination is pretty "offensive" to me !!
| 415 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:35:39am |
re: #410 MandyManners
I'll hold his coat while you whale the tar out of him! :)
| 416 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:35:56am |
re: #406 sattv4u2
Happy Memorial Day, all
I always find that phrase a little ironic.
Memorial day, honoring our fallen troops from the various wars. Wreath on the tomb of the unknowns, parades, barbecues, beach parties, baseball. Once you think about how we honor our fallen vets, I suppose it's not that ironic after all.
| 417 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:36:19am |
| 418 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 8:36:38am |
re: #411 pingjockey
It is. Don't know what else, cement struck me as odd until I remembered who runs Gaza!
Very useful for building schoolyard bomb shelters for the children Hamas rocket teams.
| 419 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:36:41am |
re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar
Today is nothing special over there, I don't think.
| 420 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:36:56am |
re: #416 darthstar
I always find that phrase a little ironic.
Memorial day, honoring our fallen troops from the various wars. Wreath on the tomb of the unknowns, parades, barbecues, beach parties, baseball. Once you think about how we honor our fallen vets, I suppose it's not that ironic after all.
My father (WW 2 Vet who lost many friends then) always told me to celebrate what they did for us, nit that they were gone
| 421 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:37:17am |
re: #411 pingjockey
It is. Don't know what else, cement struck me as odd until I remembered who runs Gaza!
The same fucking thugs that trashed the greenhouses and sewers. The same fucking thugs that use whatever materiel they can acquire to build rockets to bomb Sderot.
| 422 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:37:47am |
re: #413 Dark_Falcon
That page linked in 401 also links to this:
Part of a document seized by the IDF during Operation Defensive Shield (2002): A table prepared by the Union of Good containing the names of shaheeds who carried out mass-murder suicide bombing attacks in Israeli cities. It was used to arrange payments to the suicide bombers’ families though the Hamas-affiliated Islamic “charitable society” Al-Tadhamun in Nablus.[Link: www.terrorism-info.org.il...]
| 423 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:38:10am |
re: #415 pingjockey
I'll hold his coat while you whale the tar out of him! :)
A 55-gallon drum of whoop-ass.
| 424 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:38:25am |
re: #421 MandyManners
Correct. Cement = bomb shelters or bunkers.
| 425 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:38:26am |
re: #416 darthstar
I always find that phrase a little ironic.
Memorial day, honoring our fallen troops from the various wars. Wreath on the tomb of the unknowns, parades, barbecues, beach parties, baseball. Once you think about how we honor our fallen vets, I suppose it's not that ironic after all.
Celebrate life.
| 426 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:39:02am |
re: #421 MandyManners
The same fucking thugs that trashed the greenhouses and sewers. The same fucking thugs that use whatever materiel they can acquire to build rockets to bomb Sderot.
Exactly. And since some the injured soldiers were shot (according to what we've heard so far), this flotilla could well have been gun-running. The Israelis were right to demand to search its cargo.
| 427 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:40:10am |
The Top rated Koskidz Diary: Israel massacres unarmed peace activists
| 428 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:40:29am |
re: #423 MandyManners
That'll work. You know short shit is gonna use this as an excuse to ship more weapons to Syria to give to Hezbollocks.
| 431 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:42:24am |
Here's a little verbatim exchange on video:
Israeli Naval officer: “Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities’ regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived.”Response: “Negative, negative.”
[Link: hurryupharry.org...]
| 432 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:42:25am |
re: #427 Killgore Trout
The Top rated Koskidz Diary: Israel massacres unarmed peace activists
Teh stoopid, it burnz!!
| 433 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:42:26am |
| 434 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:42:46am |
re: #427 Killgore Trout
The Top rated Koskidz Diary: Israel massacres unarmed peace activists
I KOS claiming that the "peace activists" were handicapped???
//
| 435 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:42:55am |
re: #422 jaunte
That page linked in 401 also links to this:
Yep, that fits right in. At this point, I think that any Americans taking part in this flotilla should be arrested upon their return here and charged with providing material support to terrorists.
| 436 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:43:02am |
re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar
Charles, delete my 430. Sorry.
| 437 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:44:24am |
| 438 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:44:30am |
re: #428 pingjockey
That'll work. You know short shit is gonna use this as an excuse to ship more weapons to Syria to give to Hezbollocks.
I was told here recently that that's okay, that they're actually going to Lebanon and that Israel should not bomb the shit out of the camps. Here. I was told that.
| 439 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:44:31am |
re: #433 Killgore Trout
Yeah, Dkos and HUffpo are ugly today.
The Kos had been trending better as of late, but today they're doing to be worse than Hot Air. The Jew Hate is flowing.
| 440 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:45:36am |
re: #439 Dark_Falcon
The Kos had been trending better as of late, but today they're doing to be worse than Hot Air. The Jew Hate is flowing.
Like the far far right, it's always just under the surface just waiting for a trigger
| 441 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:46:18am |
re: #433 Killgore Trout
I went and looked, they are repeating the line that the commandos shot people while sleeping. Gaaah.
| 442 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:47:05am |
re: #438 MandyManners
What?! Someone actually believes that BS?!
| 443 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:47:13am |
re: #441 pingjockey
I went and looked, they are repeating the line that the commandos shot people while sleeping. Gaaah.
They misunderstood
It wasn't WHILE they slept
It was to PUT them to sleep!!!
//
| 444 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:47:29am |
I am so angry right now, I could spit nails.
| 445 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:48:08am |
re: #399 darthstar
You, apparently.
Yes sir, I am on defence this morning...against the Carteresque morally bankrupt attacks against Israel's right to enforce its blockade against existential threats.
| 446 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:48:55am |
| 447 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:49:09am |
| 448 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 8:49:12am |
re: #287 reine.de.tout
I'm waiting for Olsonist to come out and ding me down.
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
| 449 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:50:12am |
re: #446 MandyManners
Do I really have to? I'm already on BP meds!
| 450 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:50:32am |
| 451 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 8:50:52am |
The scene as the convoy left Istanbul:
What better way to start a voyage than a round of rousing pro-terrorist and antisemitic chanting?Intifada, intifada, intifada!
Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews! The army of Mohammed will return!
Mohammed crushed the Jews of Khaybar, killed their leaders, took the widowed wife of one leader as his own, and degraded the survivors of the battle. Today the Khaybar chant is for hateful extremists, such as this baying mob in Luton.
Well, this was the scene on Saturday in Istanbul as the main ship in Turkish charity IHH’s latest convoy left port for Gaza.
[Link: hurryupharry.org...]
| 452 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:06am |
What a world, what a world. I just dinged up Cato again.
| 453 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:24am |
re: #445 Spare O'Lake
Upding for Carteresque and 'morally bankrupt'. I can't stand that man.
| 454 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:28am |
'Unpredictable consequences'? I say very predictable consequences -- would running a blockade of a foreign country be an act of war?
Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.
Turkey is really upping the ante.
| 455 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:34am |
re: #448 Cato the Elder
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
Good morning Cato. You'll have lots of support this morning. Israel's supporters here are out in force.
| 456 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:35am |
re: #448 Cato the Elder
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
"It" tried to tell mt Israel stole land. During the 1967 War.
| 457 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:38am |
re: #448 Cato the Elder
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
heh,,, I just got a mental image of his little dick wearing a tribal headress!!
| 458 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:51:56am |
re: #449 pingjockey
Do I really have to? I'm already on BP meds!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Make note of who dinged up and down.
| 459 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:52:48am |
re: #455 Dark_Falcon
Good morning Cato. You'll have lots of support this morning. Israel's supporters here are out in force.
It useta' be 24/7.
| 460 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:53:17am |
re: #457 sattv4u2
heh,,, I just got a mental image of his little dick wearing a tribal headress!!
A checkered condom?
| 461 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:53:21am |
re: #316 RogueOne
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
Suicidal, and it breaks my heart that they would attempt this out of their desire for decency and fair-play.
| 462 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 8:53:24am |
re: #448 Cato the Elder
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
He may think he's Chief Dick, but he's really just Tiny Littleprick.
| 463 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:53:34am |
re: #454 Joo-LiZ
'Unpredictable consequences'? I say very predictable consequences -- would running a blockade of a foreign country be an act of war?
Turkey is really upping the ante.
That means war. Israel can't allow such ships to reach port. We could well be looking at some serious naval fighting.
| 464 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:04am |
re: #454 Joo-LiZ
'Unpredictable consequences'? I say very predictable consequences -- would running a blockade of a foreign country be an act of war?
Turkey is really upping the ante.
Does Turkey want war?
| 465 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:08am |
re: #456 Cannadian Club Akbar
"It" tried to tell mt Israel stole land. During the 1967 War.
Had that one on my radar for quite some time.
A piss activist.
| 466 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:16am |
| 467 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:52am |
re: #450 sattv4u2
Depends on your definition of "worse"
HOTAIR whackos will be calling for HAMAS's elimination, KOS's for Israels
Well, calling for the elimination of a political/terrorist entity is not in itself wrong, and if by elimination we mean that some of its supporters get 72 Raisins® in the process, maybe we might shed a tear. HOT AIR has its asshats, but KOS's misfits are ignorant, stupid and evil in the face of evidence that refutes their lies.
/Again, just my USD $ 00.02
| 468 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:54am |
re: #448 Cato the Elder
One of the chief dicks on LGF.
Yes, thanks.
I'll take his downding as a badge of honor.
| 469 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:54:54am |
re: #465 Cato the Elder
Had that one on my radar for quite some time.
A piss activist.
She/he is on the list.
| 470 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:55:02am |
re: #458 MandyManners
Thank you. I'll go look then go and hit my punching bag!
| 471 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:55:07am |
re: #463 Dark_Falcon
That means war. Israel can't allow such ships to reach port. We could well be looking at some serious naval fighting.
What amazes me, is that Iran seems to have gotten itself another proxy. Ever since the AKP took power and Turkey moved further and further from the West into the Iranian axis, this moment has been coming.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey involved in the next war with Syria/Hizb/Hamas. I just hope Israel has prepared for that development.
| 472 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:55:24am |
re: #319 HoosierHoops
Why a 4am raid? I don't understand the thought process to the raid...Why not just stop them during daylight? Anybody know?
For one thing, I believe that they wanted to avoid mixing in hundreds of Gazan supporters who were ready to set out in light craft from the coast to meet the flotilla. It would have been an even worse and potentially much more murderous situation.
| 473 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 8:55:54am |
re: #452 MandyManners
What a world, what a world. I just dinged up Cato again.
In bed?
/ducks ...
//*WHACK*
///I deserved that ...
| 474 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 8:55:55am |
re: #459 MandyManners
It useta' be 24/7.
Yeah, but many of them got stupid and flounced.
My goodness, it just started raining buckets outside my window.
| 475 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:56:19am |
re: #471 Joo-LiZ
What amazes me, is that Iran seems to have gotten itself another proxy. Ever since the AKP took power and Turkey moved further and further from the West into the Iranian axis, this moment has been coming.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey involved in the next war with Syria/Hizb/Hamas. I just hope Israel has prepared for that development.
I was told here recently that Turkey's okay 'cause it's just trying to keep ShortShit from getting a nuke. Here. I was told that.
| 476 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 8:56:32am |
re: #454 Joo-LiZ
Turkey really doesn't want to go that far. I hope.
| 478 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:57:47am |
re: #475 MandyManners
I was told here recently that Turkey's okay 'cause it's just trying to keep ShortShit from getting a nuke. Here. I was told that.
By the same person who said I belonged at Hot Air.
| 479 |
Charles Johnson Mon, May 31, 2010 8:58:02am |
re: #467 Gang of One
Well, calling for the elimination of a political/terrorist entity is not in itself wrong, and if by elimination we mean that some of its supporters get 72 Raisins® in the process, maybe we might shed a tear. HOT AIR has its asshats, but KOS's misfits are ignorant, stupid and evil in the face of evidence that refutes their lies.
/Again, just my USD $ 00.02
There are just as many ignorant, stupid, and evil people at Hot Air as Daily Kos.
More, if you ask me. Daily Kos made an effort to throw out the haters. Hot Air welcomes them.
| 480 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:58:05am |
| 481 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 8:58:19am |
re: #476 pingjockey
Turkey really doesn't want to go that far. I hope.
I hope, as well. But I'm not so sure.
I feel like the Iranian axis feels empowered nowadays. It wouldn't surprise me if they (Turkey/Iran/Syria) think they can actually deal Israel a mortal blow.
| 482 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 8:58:19am |
re: #458 MandyManners
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Make note of who dinged up and down.
I make out Darthstar in that crowd. He still hasn't answered my simple question. "Darth, do you oppose the blockade?"
| 484 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 8:58:56am |
| 485 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 8:59:22am |
re: #482 The Shadow Do
I make out Darthstar in that crowd. He still hasn't answered my simple question. "Darth, do you oppose the blockade?"
From all you've seen, what do you think is the answer?
| 487 |
Killgore Trout Mon, May 31, 2010 8:59:36am |
re: #476 pingjockey
Turkey really doesn't want to go that far. I hope.
Yeah, it's very unlikely they'd use their military to escort ships into Gaza. It would be suicide.
| 488 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 8:59:49am |
re: #479 Charles
There are just as many ignorant, stupid, and evil people at Hot Air as Daily Kos.
More, if you ask me. Daily Kos made an effort to throw out the haters. Hot Air welcomes them.
You know who loves hater? Hitler.
-Glenn beck
/sorry
| 489 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:00:17am |
re: #480 MandyManners
I don't know if y'alls computer screens would survive!
| 490 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 9:00:47am |
re: #479 Charles
There are just as many ignorant, stupid, and evil people at Hot Air as Daily Kos.
More, if you ask me. Daily Kos made an effort to throw out the haters. Hot Air welcomes them.
Point taken, sir. You are absolutely correct.
| 491 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:00:48am |
re: #484 HoosierHoops
LFG has always been and will always be Pro-Israel 24/7...
Until very, very recently, I've not seen pro-Hamas and pro-Hizb'allah shit here.
bbiab for real
| 492 |
Mark Pennington Mon, May 31, 2010 9:01:12am |
Wow, I'm not used to seeing this kind of (nasty)atmosphere at LGF. I come here because I dislike anti-anything sentiment.
| 493 |
Charles Johnson Mon, May 31, 2010 9:01:49am |
re: #491 MandyManners
Until very, very recently, I've not seen pro-Hamas and pro-Hizb'allah shit here.
bbiab for real
There's a difference between debating the issues and being "pro-Hamas." I haven't seen these "pro-Hamas" comments. Where are they?
| 494 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:01:49am |
re: #491 MandyManners
Until very, very recently, I've not seen pro-Hamas and pro-Hizb'allah shit here.
bbiab for real
Make me some greens, woman!!!
/
| 495 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:02:44am |
re: #492 beekiller
Wow, I'm not used to seeing this kind of (nasty)atmosphere at LGF. I come here because I dislike anti-anything sentiment.
Even anti-terrorist?
Anti- sovreign nation, as HAMAS is in re: to Israel?
| 496 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:02:47am |
re: #479 Charles
There are just as many ignorant, stupid, and evil people at Hot Air as Daily Kos.
More, if you ask me. Daily Kos made an effort to throw out the haters. Hot Air welcomes them.
True, perhaps. But I doubt there will me much effort to throw out the Israel haters on Kotz who have swallowed the bait on this staged propaganda flotilla action hook, line and sinker.
| 497 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, May 31, 2010 9:03:06am |
re: #492 beekiller
Wow, I'm not used to seeing this kind of (nasty)atmosphere at LGF. I come here because I dislike anti-anything sentiment.
There are a lot of people here pissed off this morning. I'm one of them, but I've got to go. BBL
| 498 |
Spare O'Lake Mon, May 31, 2010 9:03:07am |
| 499 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:03:25am |
re: #487 Killgore Trout
The Israeli navy is very good for its size. I have reservations about how effective the Turkish navy could be. Heh. "carry out unrestricted submarine warfare against Turkey". Paraphrased from the orders given to our submariners after Pearl Harbor.
| 500 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 9:03:30am |
| 502 |
McSpiff Mon, May 31, 2010 9:04:05am |
re: #471 Joo-LiZ
What amazes me, is that Iran seems to have gotten itself another proxy. Ever since the AKP took power and Turkey moved further and further from the West into the Iranian axis, this moment has been coming.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey involved in the next war with Syria/Hizb/Hamas. I just hope Israel has prepared for that development.
Na, the Generals will sort Turkey out in short order. They already attempted once recently. If the government attempts to militarily realign Turkey with the Islamist powers, there will be another coup. Not a big deal.
My gut says this raid was botched tho. Using non-leathal arms, apparently assuming they really were unarmed, all seem like mistakes to me. Raids on pirate held vessels generally don't result in a loss of life for either side, and I'm confused as to why the same tactics weren't employed.
| 504 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 9:07:14am |
re: #502 McSpiff
Na, the Generals will sort Turkey out in short order. They already attempted once recently. If the government attempts to militarily realign Turkey with the Islamist powers, there will be another coup. Not a big deal.
My gut says this raid was botched tho. Using non-leathal arms, apparently assuming they really were unarmed, all seem like mistakes to me. Raids on pirate held vessels generally don't result in a loss of life for either side, and I'm confused as to why the same tactics weren't employed.
Because the flotilla activists were hoping for violence.
Pirates know they will be killed if they resist. These activists thought one of two things (or both).
1) Israel will be restrained to avoid bad PR.
2) If there is violence, we win the PR battle.
| 506 |
McSpiff Mon, May 31, 2010 9:10:32am |
re: #504 Joo-LiZ
Because the flotilla activists were hoping for violence.
Pirates know they will be killed if they resist. These activists thought one of two things (or both).
1) Israel will be restrained to avoid bad PR.
2) If there is violence, we win the PR battle.
Well yeah, clearly they were. No one here seems surprised, but it looks like the IDF was caught off guard. I've never really had the impression that the IDF was overly concerned about the international PR scene, but maybe I'm wrong. This is a force that's known for giving its troops the ability to fight its battles properly. I just think this particular Op was poorly planned.
| 507 |
Mark Pennington Mon, May 31, 2010 9:12:06am |
re: #495 sattv4u2
Even anti-terrorist?
Anti- sovreign nation, as HAMAS is in re: to Israel?
You know what I meant. One can be pro-Israel without being anti-Muslim. (like me and many others here.) Someone like Gus is a perfect example.
I'm not a Kos kid and very reasonable and if I feel creeped out, trust me, it's not good.
| 508 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:12:10am |
re: #492 beekiller
Wow, I'm not used to seeing this kind of (nasty)atmosphere at LGF. I come here because I dislike anti-anything sentiment.
I think what you're seeing is more pro-Israel, than anti-whatever.
| 509 |
McSpiff Mon, May 31, 2010 9:13:06am |
Alright, lunch breaks over. Play nice y'all, Joo-Liz feel free to mercilessly stalk me across threads if you want to take this up later ;-)
| 510 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:13:30am |
re: #506 McSpiff
IMO, it was planned with very specific ROEs and these people were supposed to be 'peace activists', not knife wielding lunatics. The IDF goes through great pains to minimize civilian casualties. Just like the US, and most other democracies.
| 511 |
Mark Pennington Mon, May 31, 2010 9:14:13am |
re: #508 reine.de.tout
I think what you're seeing is more pro-Israel, than anti-whatever.
From you, yes. Some others...not so much.
| 512 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:14:13am |
re: #507 beekiller
You know what I meant. One can be pro-Israel without being anti-Muslim. (like me and many others here.) Someone like Gus is a perfect example.
I'm not a Kos kid and very reasonable and if I feel creeped out, trust me, it's not good.
I've been here for an hour or so this a.m, and have yet to see an "anti Muslim" sentiment
Anti HAMAS, yes,, anti TERRORIST organization, surely
Pro-Iraeli security, without a doubt
But Anti-Muslim? You would have to point out a post(s) that I perhaps missed
| 513 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, May 31, 2010 9:14:50am |
Good Morning, it's memorial day. Our day to remember our veterans. That's my focus today. Partly because so much bad news points to more war. As if we have not visited enough tears upon others. So props to South Korea for restraint, and Israel for the same, and at a price. Today is a fine day to ponder stepping back from war, anger and hate. Peace begins in our own emotions.
| 514 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 9:15:06am |
One thing I find fascinating:
Sounds like the Flotilla's spokespeople are having a tough time on the networks, because Israel got the story out on time.
I just saw on CBC the anchorwoman was talking to a Palestinian spokesperson. She asked him "if the goal is to get the supplies to Gaza, why wouldn't they have accepted Israel's offer to take it" and he responded something about how "They probably didn't trust Israel. It makes no sense. Israel is imposing the siege, why would they let in humanitarian supplies?" (reveals remarkable ignorance). Then he said the flotilla was with civilians and she challenged him on that, saying "I don't want to argue with you, but I'm trying to get the facts straight in my head... Israel said the organizers have background in Islamic Jihad and links with smuggling and terror. Do you know who was actually on these boats? You call them civilians."
| 515 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 9:16:10am |
re: #454 Joo-LiZ
'Unpredictable consequences'? I say very predictable consequences -- would running a blockade of a foreign country be an act of war?
Turkey is really upping the ante.
Now that the prospects of Turkey ever joining the EU have considerably dimmed, they're pulling out all the stops and dropping the 'nice guy' masks. They probably figure that they've nothing to lose.
| 516 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:16:17am |
re: #507 beekiller
Haven't seen any anti'muslim stuff, a whole lot of anti terrorist stuff, as in anti Hamas, Hezbollah, Al queda, tallyban, etc...Oh and short shit in Iran!
Anti jihadist could count as antimuslim I guess.
| 517 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 9:16:52am |
The White House said in a written statement that the United States "deeply regrets" the loss of life and injuries and was working to understand the circumstances surrounding this "tragedy."
And what statements will follow when the circumstances are known one wonders. A carefully measured one I'm sure.
| 518 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 9:16:53am |
re: #455 Dark_Falcon
Good morning Cato. You'll have lots of support this morning. Israel's supporters here are out in force.
Color me surprised.
| 519 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 9:18:00am |
Just a side note here: You know how showers are the greatest thing since sliced bread? Have you ever taken a shower with a Sunburn?
I know I shouldn't have screamed all those curse words this morning...Painful is an understatement...
| 520 |
windsword Mon, May 31, 2010 9:18:27am |
Quotes from CNN article:
"At about 4:30 am, Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto deck of Turkish ship, immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians," said a post on the group's Twitter page.
How many ways is this bullshit? Let's see.
1. Why would Israel willingly invite one of the worst PR disasters, unprovoked?
2. Why would Israel peacefully detain five boats, and arbitrarily decide to massacre the sixth?
3. How did the unarmed civilians manage to injure six soldiers, nearly killing one?
All I can think of at the moment. Can anyone think of anything else?
| 521 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:18:40am |
| 522 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:19:06am |
re: #518 ryannon
Why? This site has a large, say over 75% plus, just my guess, support for Israel here.
| 523 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:19:12am |
re: #519 HoosierHoops
Just a side note here: You know how showers are the greatest thing since sliced bread? Have you ever taken a shower with a Sunburn?
I know I shouldn't have screamed all those curse words this morning...Painful is an understatement...
That was YOU laying out drunk on the brick strip on the track !?!?!
//
| 524 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, May 31, 2010 9:19:55am |
re: #519 HoosierHoops
Dude, you might want to see a doctor.
| 525 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:20:45am |
re: #519 HoosierHoops
Waaaah! You got to go to the race, slap on some lotion and toughen up!
| 526 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:21:07am |
re: #482 The Shadow Do
I make out Darthstar in that crowd. He still hasn't answered my simple question. "Darth, do you oppose the blockade?"
What crowd? Sorry...I went offline for a little bit.
Blockade? Not a bad thing, per se, so long as it doesn't turn into an Embargo.
| 527 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:22:10am |
re: #493 Charles
There's a difference between debating the issues and being "pro-Hamas." I haven't seen these "pro-Hamas" comments. Where are they?
The pro-Hamas comments are here this morning. (I define "pro-Hamas" comments as those who are making excuses for the blockade runners.)
| 528 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:22:13am |
re: #201 ralphieboy
A bit overstated, prhaps, but I was thinking of that West Bank Rabbi who forbid women to vote. That puts him on the same level as the Saudis.
No. Difference is, in Saudi he would be running the show. In the West Bank, he's a schmuck with a congregation and an opinion. That puts him on the same level as a Baptist preacher in small-town America.
| 529 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:22:38am |
re: #508 reine.de.tout
I think what you're seeing is more pro-Israel, than anti-whatever.
I'm waiting to "see" the anti-Muslim posts she alluded too
| 530 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:22:47am |
Hoops ain't getting no love from me. Heh.
| 531 |
cenotaphium Mon, May 31, 2010 9:23:12am |
re: #504 Joo-LiZ
Because the flotilla activists were hoping for violence.
Pirates know they will be killed if they resist. These activists thought one of two things (or both).
1) Israel will be restrained to avoid bad PR.
2) If there is violence, we win the PR battle.
It seems obvious that the whole point of the convoy was to cause (at least) embarrassment for the Israelis. Why did the IDF choose to board the ship at all though? Seems like they could have disabled the ship(s) without physically entering it and putting themselves at risk?
| 533 |
Charles Johnson Mon, May 31, 2010 9:24:04am |
re: #527 MandyManners
The pro-Hamas comments are here this morning. (I define "pro-Hamas" comments as those who are making excuses for the blockade runners.)
You have a pretty loose definition of "pro-Hamas."
| 534 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 9:24:22am |
re: #523 sattv4u2
That was YOU laying out drunk on the brick strip on the track !?!?!
//
I look like a red raccoon...Cause I wore sunglasses...I am burned bad...I am an idiot...But officially I have now joined the redneck club...Indiana chapter
/I need a pickup with a gun rack..A can of chewing tobacco and a confederate flag..Let's get this party started..
/
| 535 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 9:24:24am |
re: #531 cenotaphium
It seems obvious that the whole point of the convoy was to cause (at least) embarrassment for the Israelis. Why did the IDF choose to board the ship at all though? Seems like they could have disabled the ship(s) without physically entering it and putting themselves at risk?
and risk sinking it?
I don't know details, but they had to take action. Why they chose boarding as opposed to other means, I don't know.
| 536 |
Charles Johnson Mon, May 31, 2010 9:24:44am |
And I still haven't seen a "pro-Hamas" comment. I've seen people questioning Israel's actions, which is pretty damned far from being "pro-Hamas."
| 537 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:25:46am |
re: #494 Cannadian Club Akbar
Make me some greens, woman!!!
/
Chopped Romaine salad with cukes, tomatoes, celery, broccoli florets and slices of red onion. That's to accompany 16 oz., 11/4-inch Porterhouse steaks (wet-aged), baked potatoes, roasted asparagus, crusty French bread and just-picked green onions.
| 538 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:25:56am |
re: #531 cenotaphium
I have no idea of the size of these ships, but it is extremely difficult to disable a ship externally. Jam the rudder, foul the prop and that's about it. Both of those 2 tactics are damn near impossible with a ship under weigh at sea.
| 540 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:26:27am |
re: #529 sattv4u2
I'm waiting to "see" the anti-Muslim posts she alluded too
Not talking about Darthstar or anyone, really, in particular.
But I think many folks are surprised to see information presented that is counter to the usual media presentation of events.
| 541 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:26:31am |
Supporting the propagandist flotilla blockade runners, whose sole mission was to cause this kind of incident, is objectively pro-Hamas.
| 542 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:26:33am |
re: #534 HoosierHoops
I look like a red raccoon...Cause I wore sunglasses...I am burned bad...I am an idiot...But officially I have now joined the redneck club...Indiana chapter
/I need a pickup with a gun rack..A can of chewing tobacco and a confederate flag..Let's get this party started..
/
There is no "CAN" of chewing toabkie. Yer no redneck!!!
| 543 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:26:55am |
re: #534 HoosierHoops
Hehehehee! Where the hell was your suncreen?! How awesome was the race?
| 544 |
cenotaphium Mon, May 31, 2010 9:27:21am |
re: #535 Joo-LiZ
and risk sinking it?
I don't know details, but they had to take action. Why they chose boarding as opposed to other means, I don't know.
Heh.. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. It was a general speculative question really.
Sinking the ships might well have been a problem. Or maybe their threat assessment was just completely different from reality (as indicated by the ROE and paintball armament) and they just didn't expect significant resistance.
| 545 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:27:32am |
re: #537 MandyManners
Chopped Romaine salad with cukes, tomatoes, celery, broccoli florets and slices of red onion. That's to accompany 16 oz., 11/4-inch Porterhouse steaks (wet-aged), baked potatoes, roasted asparagus, crusty French bread and just-picked green onions.
Me love you.
| 546 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 9:27:52am |
re: #521 Cato the Elder
Flotilla "peace activists" chant intifada songs, celebrate martyrdom before setting out for Gaza.
"Nothing to see here, move along ..."
/Anti-Israel apologist
| 548 |
Mark Pennington Mon, May 31, 2010 9:28:15am |
re: #512 sattv4u2
I've been here for an hour or so this a.m, and have yet to see an "anti Muslim" sentiment
Anti HAMAS, yes,, anti TERRORIST organization, surely
Pro-Iraeli security, without a doubt
But Anti-Muslim? You would have to point out a post(s) that I perhaps missed
and Pat Buchanan claims he isn't an anti-Semite, Michelle Malkin isn't a racist and Tom Tancredo isn't anti-Hispanic...
| 549 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:28:26am |
re: #541 Cato the Elder
Supporting the propagandist flotilla blockade runners, whose sole mission was to cause this kind of incident, is objectively pro-Hamas.
Riiiiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
| 550 |
Joo-LiZ Mon, May 31, 2010 9:28:27am |
re: #544 cenotaphium
Heh.. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. It was a general speculative question really.
Sinking the ships might well have been a problem. Or maybe their threat assessment was just completely different from reality (as indicated by the ROE and paintball armament) and they just didn't expect significant resistance.
Yeah, that's what I think as well.
They really thought the 'activists' were in for a PR stunt, and would be satisfied with announcing to the world "Israel stopped us from getting to Gaza!".
The IDF decided it was worth taking that blow to stop the actual un-checked shipment from getting through etc. etc.
| 551 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:29:01am |
re: #540 reine.de.tout
Not talking about Darthstar or anyone, really, in particular.
But I think many folks are surprised to see information presented that is counter to the usual media presentation of events.
No,, BeeKiller alluded to "anti Muslim" posts, of which I haven';t seen any here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 552 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:29:25am |
re: #549 drcordell
Where the fuck have you been!!!
| 553 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:29:48am |
re: #548 beekiller
and Pat Buchanan claims he isn't an anti-Semite, Michelle Malkin isn't a racist and Tom Tancredo isn't anti-Hispanic...
Those are examples of "anti-Muslim" posts here, as you alludeed too in [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 554 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 9:30:14am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
In Gaza?
| 555 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:30:30am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
Israel offered to let it come in at port, with the supplies to be delivered to Gaza through normal channels by the personnel in the flotilla, after a security check. This offer was refused.
| 556 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 9:31:15am |
| 557 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:31:16am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
Idiot. Israel has no port in Gaza, or police. They withdrew from there.
| 558 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:31:20am |
re: #549 drcordell
Attacking commandos with knives is how they got dead. Stupid that. The same with sailing ships at ports that are closed for a reason. Israel offered to let them pull into an Israeli port, search the ships, then let any aid not on the banned list go by land to Gaza.
| 559 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:32:08am |
re: #555 reine.de.tout
Israel offered to let it come in at port, with the supplies to be delivered to Gaza through normal channels by the personnel in the flotilla, after a security check. This offer was refused.
And then the ship was opened fire upon in international waters. The entire point of this exercise was to provoke an Israeli response. And they played right into the hands of the activists by killing a grip of them.
| 560 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:32:23am |
re: #557 Cato the Elder
Idiot. Israel has no port in Gaza, or police. They withdrew from there.
deatils details!
| 561 |
Mark Pennington Mon, May 31, 2010 9:32:53am |
re: #553 sattv4u2
Those are examples of "anti-Muslim" posts here, as you alludeed too in [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I'm alluding to people who are known to be very anti-Muslim and their adrenaline rush of excitement in their posts...are creeping me out. And I know its not just me.
| 562 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:34:04am |
re: #558 pingjockey
Attacking commandos with knives is how they got dead. Stupid that. The same with sailing ships at ports that are closed for a reason. Israel offered to let them pull into an Israeli port, search the ships, then let any aid not on the banned list go by land to Gaza.
Not saying it wasn't stupid. But I also am under the impression that the ship was in international waters when it was boarded by the commandos. I would imagine if an unknown person helicopters onto the deck of your ship in international waters you can treat them as hostile. Again, not the smartest move if they're probably Israeli commandos...
| 563 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:34:27am |
re: #559 drcordell
No it wasn't. The commandos were attacked. Also look up thread further, someone linked to the Int'l law concerning blockades and armed conflicts. Israel was within Int'l law when it boarded those ships.
| 564 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:35:00am |
re: #561 beekiller
I'm alluding to people who are known to be very anti-Muslim and their adrenaline rush of excitement in their posts...are creeping me out. And I know its not just me.
{sigh} ,, and again, you alluded to Anti MUSLIM posts here, on this thread. You've been told that there are in fact Anti-TERROSIST, Anti -HAMAS, and PRO Israeli.
Please show me a post on this thread that you consider Anti -MUSLIM
| 565 |
Digital Display Mon, May 31, 2010 9:35:02am |
re: #543 pingjockey
Hehehehee! Where the hell was your suncreen?! How awesome was the race?
I was at the track for Carb day and got burnt.. For the race yesterday the boys came over and we BBQ'ed and hung out at the pool and got really burned ( 1 degree short of the hottest Indy 500 of all time)
Watched the race on ABC at 7pm last night...
Jumped into shower this morning and screamed every bad word known to mankind...Most of the words started with F.. Funny how that is...The F word as a verb a noun an adjective a predicate..Every possible use of the F word in the Shower..I was screaming it...
Looking back..It was a beautiful and rare thing...
/
| 566 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:35:32am |
re: #562 drcordell
Hello! Help me, someone give the doc the link to the Int'l law on blockades please.
| 567 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:35:34am |
re: #313 sandbox
Turkey's support for the flotilla and other anti-Israel actions has apparently hurt them re Israeli tourism to that country.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
I didn't know there were so many Israeli's visiting Turkey.
Popular vacation spot. It's nearby, secular, lots to do.
| 568 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:35:57am |
| 569 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:36:01am |
re: #557 Cato the Elder
Idiot. Israel has no port in Gaza, or police. They withdrew from there.
You're telling me Israel lacks the ability to send some soldiers over to the blockaded port in Gaza? Are you serious?
| 570 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:36:28am |
re: #316 RogueOne
Dropping yourself into the middle of a mob and your primary weapon is a paintball gun? Ballsy.
They'd never seen anything like this. The previous blockade running groups were...not this.
| 571 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:36:53am |
re: #569 drcordell
You're telling me Israel lacks the ability to send some soldiers over to the blockaded port in Gaza? Are you serious?
I'm telling you you're an idiot.
| 572 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:37:58am |
re: #565 HoosierHoops
Glad y'all had fun. If you've got blisters, go to the doc asap. They can get infected easily. We had a couple of squids fall asleep on the ship out in the Persian Gulf. They ended up getting medevac to the carrier, their sunburns were that bad.
| 573 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:38:31am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
And risk getting gunned down by Hamas?
| 574 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:38:48am |
re: #540 reine.de.tout
Not talking about Darthstar or anyone, really, in particular.
But I think many folks are surprised to see information presented that is counter to the usual media presentation of events.
Hey reine...I actually go off and read both sides when these kinds of events take place. I don't believe that the flotilla is a "Hamas tool" as Cato posited above, or that these people support "Jew-murderers" as DF likes to call the people on the boats (60 of whom, I think I read here the other day, happen to be Israeli Jews themselves).
I think it's the emotionally charged defensiveness that's most off-putting. Sure, there will be some people who are so knee-jerk in their rhetoric that they'll call me 'pro-Hamas', but I don't expect them to hold intelligent debate...they're the same types of people who told me to "move to France" when I spoke out against invading Iraq in 2003 (I like France, actually, and if the right job presented itself, I'd pack up the wife and dogs and cat and move there...it's a beautiful country and I could live there quite happily for years--though I'd want to come home eventually, as I discovered last time I was an ex-pat.).
| 575 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:39:08am |
re: #559 drcordell
And then the ship was opened fire upon in international waters. The entire point of this exercise was to provoke an Israeli response. And they played right into the hands of the activists by killing a grip of them.
But somehow, the injured Israelis, who were injured before they started firing - those injured folks are somehow left out of the story completely.
Odd, that.
| 576 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, May 31, 2010 9:39:15am |
re: #537 MandyManners
Chopped Romaine salad with cukes, tomatoes, celery, broccoli florets and slices of red onion. That's to accompany 16 oz., 11/4-inch Porterhouse steaks (wet-aged), baked potatoes, roasted asparagus, crusty French bread and just-picked green onions.
Soy Sesame Green Beans, Marinated rib eyes, Italian herbed baked potatoes, baked beans and a Dog Head 90 minute IPA before I get on the plane back to DC tonight.
(and I made a bow-tie pasta dish for my honey to bake tomorrow night)
We had this for breakfast...
| 577 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:39:34am |
re: #338 The Shadow Do
Common police tactic. Get em with their guard down.
The flotilla had pulled back to try to avoid confrontation until morning.
I suspect the original idea was to board in the early morning hours, take control, and lead the boats into harbor.
That probably would have worked with previous groups just fine.
Jesus H. Christ.
| 578 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:40:27am |
re: #340 Killgore Trout
Twitter feed: IDFSpokesperson
That's a frequent occurrence. How much "aid" is on that stupid ship?
Doesn't matter.
They've gone before with a single bag of symbolic cement. This was, before this episode, mostly an exercise in crisis tourism.
| 579 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:40:43am |
| 580 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:40:51am |
re: #575 reine.de.tout
But somehow, the injured Israelis, who were injured before they started firing - those injured folks are somehow left out of the story completely.
Odd, that.
Not saying the peace activists were smart to do what they did. But when someone rappels onto the deck of your ship in international waters, I can't believe that you aren't justifying in attacking them. Again, key words international waters. If Israel would have waited until they hit Gazan waters, this story would be totally different.
| 581 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:41:38am |
re: #341 jaunte
Haarets has a photo of a 'left-wing' activist peacefully holding up a knife:
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
One of Jameel's commenters commented that he's sure it hurts much less to be stabbed by a peaceful person who's been training in passive resistance.
| 582 |
MandyManners Mon, May 31, 2010 9:42:18am |
re: #580 drcordell
Not saying the peace activists were smart to do what they did. But when someone rappels onto the deck of your ship in international waters, I can't believe that you aren't justifying in attacking them. Again, key words international waters. If Israel would have waited until they hit Gazan waters, this story would be totally different.
Yeah. With a bunch of dead Jews after they'd had their backs to Hamas.
How much fucking stupid can you stuff into your head?
| 584 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:43:04am |
re: #580 drcordell
Not saying the peace activists were smart to do what they did. But when someone rappels onto the deck of your ship in international waters, I can't believe that you aren't justifying in attacking them. Again, key words international waters. If Israel would have waited until they hit Gazan waters, this story would be totally different.
Don't worry, doc...by the next news cycle the boats will have been boarded within view of the shore.
/
| 585 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:43:05am |
re: #574 darthstar
Hey reine...I actually go off and read both sides when these kinds of events take place. I don't believe that the flotilla is a "Hamas tool" as Cato posited above, or that these people support "Jew-murderers" as DF likes to call the people on the boats (60 of whom, I think I read here the other day, happen to be Israeli Jews themselves).
I think it's the emotionally charged defensiveness that's most off-putting. Sure, there will be some people who are so knee-jerk in their rhetoric that they'll call me 'pro-Hamas', but I don't expect them to hold intelligent debate...they're the same types of people who told me to "move to France" when I spoke out against invading Iraq in 2003 (I like France, actually, and if the right job presented itself, I'd pack up the wife and dogs and cat and move there...it's a beautiful country and I could live there quite happily for years--though I'd want to come home eventually, as I discovered last time I was an ex-pat.).
Right.
I really was not talking about you, only mentioned you because the post I responded to was a response to YOU.
I'm not big on the knee-jerk reactions either. I do have a very strong pro-Israel take on all of this, because I see them as being the ones under attack from all sides, and their actions as defensive.
And I think you have to admit, looking at the normal avenues of information, CNN, the AP, etc., that the coverage is very one-sided. What you'll see here is a strong effort to counter that one-sidedness, and I do think there are folks who are not accustomed to seeing it, and it's sort of overwhelming.
| 586 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:43:57am |
re: #582 MandyManners
Yeah. With a bunch of dead Jews after they'd had their backs to Hamas.
How much fucking stupid can you stuff into your head?
You like saying "dead Jews" way too much, lady. Why is that?
| 587 |
reine.de.tout Mon, May 31, 2010 9:44:05am |
re: #580 drcordell
Not saying the peace activists were smart to do what they did. But when someone rappels onto the deck of your ship in international waters, I can't believe that you aren't justifying in attacking them. Again, key words international waters. If Israel would have waited until they hit Gazan waters, this story would be totally different.
Gaza waters are not Israeli waters, are they?
| 588 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:44:08am |
re: #349 darthstar
Yes, people on the boats fought back...10 or 15 of them died. It doesn't matter if you think Israel was right to 'defend itself' by attacking the flotilla or if the activists ("jew murderers" if it makes a person feel better to dehumanize them) were right to try to defend themselves. It's a tragedy and it's only going to escalate tensions.
They 'fought back'? If a demonstration of peace activists pulled knives on cops coming to arrest them, you wouldn't refer to it as 'fighting back'.
Now, if we want to rephrase this adventure as one of pirates attacking the Israeli coast, OK with me, but they did get their asses kicked.
| 589 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:44:39am |
re: #351 HoosierHoops
Sir?
Yes?
What happens if this ship has armed terrorists aboard?
We board at 4am...
Sir?
Yes?
So if there are terrorists aboard..
Yes?
We won't be able to see them also?
You'll be armed with paintguns
Sir?
Yes?
What happens after the first time I shoot somebody?
With your paintgun?
Yes Sir..
And?
They don't die sir..What then?
*looks at watch*
Almost 0400 grab a paintgun and lets go kick some ass!
Sir?
WHAT?
What if they have a baseball bat?
A baseball bat? These are peace activists boy! Now grab a paintgun!
Sir?
WHHHAAATT!
Can I change from yellow to red paint balls?
WHY?
Maybe it'll fool them to thinking they are bleeding or something...
Great Idea! Everybody change to the red paintballs
/
Oh God, Hoops, I love you.
| 590 |
Gang of One Mon, May 31, 2010 9:44:43am |
| 591 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:45:34am |
re: #587 reine.de.tout
Gaza waters are not Israeli waters, are they?
They most certainly are. Last time I checked Gaza wasn't a nation.
| 592 |
ryannon Mon, May 31, 2010 9:46:18am |
re: #580 drcordell
Not saying the peace activists were smart to do what they did. But when someone rappels onto the deck of your ship in international waters, I can't believe that you aren't justifying in attacking them. Again, key words international waters. If Israel would have waited until they hit Gazan waters, this story would be totally different.
For fuck's sake, read this:
| 593 |
The Shadow Do Mon, May 31, 2010 9:48:41am |
re: #569 drcordell
You're telling me Israel lacks the ability to send some soldiers over to the blockaded port in Gaza? Are you serious?
I think you fail to see the probability of an even uglier incident in that event.
| 595 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:49:54am |
re: #586 darthstar
You like saying "dead Jews" way too much, lady. Why is that?
Perhaps because there have been WAY too many of them over the last 60 years or so!
NEVER FORGET!
| 597 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:50:36am |
re: #592 ryannon
Thank you! Knew someone had linked to it!
| 598 |
darthstar Mon, May 31, 2010 9:52:01am |
re: #588 SanFranciscoZionist
They 'fought back'? If a demonstration of peace activists pulled knives on cops coming to arrest them, you wouldn't refer to it as 'fighting back'.
Now, if we want to rephrase this adventure as one of pirates attacking the Israeli coast, OK with me, but they did get their asses kicked.
They were boarded in Int'l waters. I'm guessing (I wasn't there, so I'm not certain of this as others here are) that some of them thought they were defending their ships. Silly, really.
As for the 'paintball' gun invasion, I find that as believable as the commandos carrying water-weenies and cans of crazy-string. If they did, in fact, board with zero weaponry, then that would indicate they knew there were few or no weapons aboard the boat (except for improvised weapons...kitchen knives, bats, marbles, etc.).
As Alouette said upthread, this was an epic clusterfuck. And it's not going to help Israel's image abroad at all.
| 599 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:52:53am |
re: #384 darthstar
You can say they attacked the Israelis, but they weren't the ones coming in by helicopter and dropping onto Israeli boats.
There's offense and defense in any conflict. In most conflicts, the team advancing on the opposition is considered the offensive side, while the team being advanced upon is the defense. Unless you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan.
They were attempting to run a blockade. That was a their clear and stated intent. They refused to cooperate with authorities.
| 600 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:53:16am |
| 601 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 9:53:57am |
re: #599 SanFranciscoZionist
They were attempting to run a blockade. That was a their clear and stated intent. They refused to cooperate with authorities.
Because they believe Israel's blockade is in violation of International law.
| 602 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:54:35am |
re: #599 SanFranciscoZionist
They were attempting to run a blockade. That was a their clear and stated intent. They refused to cooperate with authorities.
Now now ,,, Dr. Cordell would have us ignore the "legality of the blockade"
/
| 603 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:54:37am |
re: #600 sattv4u2
Nah. Edith was alot smarter than Archie!
| 604 |
Cato the Elder Mon, May 31, 2010 9:54:49am |
re: #574 darthstar
Hey reine...I actually go off and read both sides when these kinds of events take place. I don't believe that the flotilla is a "Hamas tool" as Cato posited above, or that these people support "Jew-murderers" as DF likes to call the people on the boats (60 of whom, I think I read here the other day, happen to be Israeli Jews themselves).
That fourth guy on the left still has the taste of Arafat's dick in his mouth.
| 605 |
alexknyc Mon, May 31, 2010 9:55:20am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
Do you think there are Israeli police in Gaza?
| 606 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:55:32am |
re: #601 drcordell
Because they believe Israel's blockade is in violation of International law.
Well ,,, as long as HAMAS thinks so , because they are such paragons of obeying international laws, and all!!
| 607 |
pingjockey Mon, May 31, 2010 9:56:13am |
re: #601 drcordell
If that's the case, then JFK was also wrong for stopping the 'peaceful' shipment of supplies from the USSR to their fraternal socialsit brethern in Cuba.
| 608 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 9:56:24am |
re: #434 sattv4u2
I KOS claiming that the "peace activists" were handicapped???
//
They were bringing wheelchairs, they said, that may be where that came from.
| 609 |
jaunte Mon, May 31, 2010 9:56:49am |
re: #606 sattv4u2
I'm wondering if there are any other violators of international law they object to...
| 610 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:57:27am |
re: #608 SanFranciscoZionist
They were bringing wheelchairs, they said, that may be where that came from.
sorry ,,,was playing on the UNARMED word in the post
| 611 |
alexknyc Mon, May 31, 2010 9:57:46am |
re: #569 drcordell
You're telling me Israel lacks the ability to send some soldiers over to the blockaded port in Gaza? Are you serious?
So it's OK for Israeli soldiers to INVADE Gaza but not to stop a ship (legally under Int'l law) trying to run a blockade?
Really?
| 612 |
sattv4u2 Mon, May 31, 2010 9:59:17am |
re: #611 alexknyc
So it's OK for Israeli soldiers to INVADE Gaza but not to stop a ship (legally under Int'l law) trying to run a blockade?
Really?
Dr. Cordell CAN make that disassociative "logic" in his mind,,, go ahead,,, you asked for it ,, you've also been warned!!
| 613 |
drcordell Mon, May 31, 2010 10:03:33am |
re: #611 alexknyc
So it's OK for Israeli soldiers to INVADE Gaza but not to stop a ship (legally under Int'l law) trying to run a blockade?
Really?
Israel has invaded Gaza multiple times. And still maintains military control over its borders. If you've already sealed it off with a giant wall, barbed wire, and machine gun nests.... what's a few more people at the port enforcing your blockade?
| 614 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 10:30:08am |
re: #549 drcordell
Riiight. That's like saying the Kent State protesters wanted to get gunned down. Sailing a ship full of supplies towards a blockaded port shouldn't get you shot to death. Israel couldn't have let it simply reach port and then surrounded it with police?
The Kent State protestors have big curvy knives?
| 615 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 10:36:46am |
re: #569 drcordell
You're telling me Israel lacks the ability to send some soldiers over to the blockaded port in Gaza? Are you serious?
Jesus H. Christ.
| 616 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 10:41:59am |
re: #598 darthstar
They were boarded in Int'l waters. I'm guessing (I wasn't there, so I'm not certain of this as others here are) that some of them thought they were defending their ships. Silly, really.
As for the 'paintball' gun invasion, I find that as believable as the commandos carrying water-weenies and cans of crazy-string. If they did, in fact, board with zero weaponry, then that would indicate they knew there were few or no weapons aboard the boat (except for improvised weapons...kitchen knives, bats, marbles, etc.).
As Alouette said upthread, this was an epic clusterfuck. And it's not going to help Israel's image abroad at all.
This was staged as a deliberate attempt to draw Israeli fire, yes. And it is an epic clusterfuck. And it is a hasbarah nightmare.
I think some bad decisions were made by the IDF.
As for 'defending their ships', fuck that for a line of BS. After all this 'we are unarmed civilians and peace activists', trained in nonviolence, they suddenly erupt into focused violence as they're boarded? They knew they would be boarded. They planned to do this.
| 617 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 10:42:52am |
re: #601 drcordell
Because they believe Israel's blockade is in violation of International law.
They believe that the existence of Israel is a violation of international law. And they can kiss my ass, every anti-Semitic motherfucker of them.
| 618 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 31, 2010 10:43:31am |
re: #610 sattv4u2
sorry ,,,was playing on the UNARMED word in the post
Don't do subtle with me today. My nerves won't stand it!
| 619 |
Sacred Plants Mon, May 31, 2010 11:59:55am |
This makes the American Dream look like a bottomless pit.
| 620 |
Bagua Mon, May 31, 2010 11:58:57pm |
re: #329 darthstar
How was it ambushed? Were there hundreds of "Jew-murderers" swimming along side the flotilla just underwater with little bits of reeds to breathe through and that the "terror-scum" climbed up suddenly and surprised the defenseless IDF forces?
I know you're simply an objective observer, but really...
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