Video: ‘Peace Activists’ Prepare Their Weapons to Attack

Middle East • Views: 4,667

Here’s a video taken by a security camera aboard the Mavi Marmara, showing the “peace activists” preparing to attack Israeli soldiers, putting on gas masks and passing out metal clubs, broken bottles, slingshots, and sharpened metal objects.

Youtube Video

UPDATE at 6/2/10 11:34:48 am:

Another video taken on the ship shows the “peace activists” attacking the IDF soldiers before they boarded the ship, with a stun grenade, metal pipes, chains, and water hoses.

Youtube Video

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351 comments
1 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:33:51am

Having shitty weapons doesn’t make you nonviolent. Losers.

2 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:35:22am

As clear and damning as this is, most of the anti-Israel people will say that they were preparing to ‘defend’ themselves.

I’m glad this is out there, though. Hopefully at least some people will understand.

3 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:35:45am

Note: when planning illegal activities leave the camcorder home…

4 Summer Seale  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:36:45am

Just watched it and I know it won’t make a difference with the idiotic anti-Israel public already out there, but this really should put a rest to the lie that the Israelis just swarmed the ship and started randomly killing people for gore skillup points.

Yea, I know it won’t change any idiots out there, but it really should.

5 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:37:04am

These people don’t know the first fucking thing about being a peace activist. The first and almost only rule, is that you don’t resort to violence. Ever. You take a bullet to the face if you have to. Ghandi and MLK would slap the shit out of these people if they weren’t themselves actual fucking peaceful activists.

6 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:37:31am

Weapons and unnecessary supplies, huh? With peace activists like these, who needs enemies?

7 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:37:35am

re: #2 Obdicut

Well of course they will. After all, it was a blatant act of piracy in International waters.

/////

8 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:37:43am

Slingshots, clubs, metal pipes, broken bottles and switchblades doesn’t make them “peace activists” it makes them the “Dead Rabbits”

9 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:37:47am

what a bunch of losers.

10 Summer Seale  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:02am

re: #5 Fozzie Bear

These people don’t know the first fucking thing about being a peace activist. The first and almost only rule, is that you don’t resort to violence. Ever. You take a bullet to the face if you have to. Ghandi and MLK would slap the shit out of these people if they weren’t themselves actual fucking peaceful activists.

Fuckin’ A, bubba! =)

11 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:05am

OT
Death toll up to 12 in British shooting spree. 25 wounded. The asshole apparently used a shotgun.

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:07am

A slingshot is not a weapon. Just ask Goliath.

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:09am

re: #3 brookly red

Note: when planning illegal activities leave the camcorder home…

Note: (P.S.) Take a gun to a gunfight.

14 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:39:47am

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Note: (P.S.) Take a gun to a gunfight.

I think it is safe to say next time it will be even uglier.

15 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:40:51am

re: #14 brookly red

I think it is safe to say next time it will be even uglier.


Oh next time I don’t think the Israelis will put their men anywhere near harm’s way like that.

16 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:41:50am

re: #15 JasonA

Oh next time I don’t think the Israelis will put their men anywhere near harm’s way like that.

yup.

17 Kragar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:42:09am

Should have disabled the engines and left them to rot.

18 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:42:48am

Unfortunately, many in the anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian camp are resistant to facts and logic. It’s much more of a visceral reaction with most of them.

I ended a recent “discussion” with a knee-jerk leftist by quoting Senator Moynihan: “People are entitled to their own opinions. People are not entitled to their own facts.”

19 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:43:03am

re: #12 EmmmieG

A slingshot is not a weapon. Just ask Goliath.

Do you think David would have used a slingshot if he could have had a Mossberg?

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:43:21am

Darn it. I was trying to find the old SNL skit about that old fun children’s toy, Bag O Glass, so I could prove they were just messing around with children’s toys.

Oh well, please use your imagination.

21 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:43:42am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Should have disabled the engines and left them to rot.

This is what I have been saying all along!!!

Israel should have just focused on making the boat unable to move, dropped a single radio on the deck of the ship from the air so they can call for a tow, and left. Simple, bloodless, and embarrassing. No negative PR.

22 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:06am

re: #20 EmmmieG

Darn it. I was trying to find the old SNL skit about that old fun children’s toy, Bag O Glass, so I could prove they were just messing around with children’s toys.

Oh well, please use your imagination.

Wasn’t there a Happy Fun Ball too?

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:10am

re: #19 Alouette

Do you think David would have used a slingshot if he could have had a Mossberg?

Actually, what David would have wanted is the IDF.

24 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:19am

i can haz ‘smoking gun’?

it’s a crying shame that this won’t do anything to throw back the tide of nasty media and biting press. for all of the concrete evidence, the flotilla will still go down as a massive hasbara fail.

although perhaps it does lend a bit of support to the argument that this qualifies as an act of aggression by turkey.

25 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:23am

Caught with their own security cameras.

Apparently they were using the electric saws to cut up the hand and guardrails of the ship to create the metal “bats.” More here including a photo of the Turkish bullet proof vests;

Photos of Bullet Proof Vests, Sawn-Off Rods, Night Vision Goggles and Rifle Scope Found on Mavi Marmara, 2 June 2010

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:24am

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:45:28am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

I’m surprised the video didn’t show the martyr cookies coming out of the oven as well…

28 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:45:57am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

There were as within their rights to resist as a common street thug is to resist an arrest.

They were trying to breach a blockade and were intercepted by the enforcing authority.

29 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:46:08am

it should be pointed out that the internet battle continues to rage.

ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpress.com

pro.flotilla types are arguing that the photos were doctored by the ministry of foreign affairs. no word yet on the youtube videos, though.

30 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:46:32am

re: #25 Gus 802

Hold on a second. Were they wearing the vests? If not…

31 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:46:45am

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

OT
Death toll up to 12 in British shooting spree. 25 wounded. The asshole apparently used a shotgun.

Hey Mayor Bloommberg, we found your “somebody with a political agenda who doesn’t like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.” type.

32 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:47:11am

re: #29 Kefirah

it should be pointed out that the internet battle continues to rage.

[Link: ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpress.com…]

pro.flotilla types are arguing that the photos were doctored by the ministry of foreign affairs. no word yet on the youtube videos, though.

People who can’t (or won’t) change their mind based on new facts are unreachable. There’s no point in even trying to convince them they’re mistaken.

33 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:47:31am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Hey Mayor Bloommberg, we found your “somebody with a political agenda who doesn’t like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.” type.

I’ll bet good money that he doesn’t read LGF.

34 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:47:44am

re: #29 Kefirah

it should be pointed out that the internet battle continues to rage.

[Link: ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpress.com…]

pro.flotilla types are arguing that the photos were doctored by the ministry of foreign affairs. no word yet on the youtube videos, though.

There was a clever post I saw where someone collected all the knives from their house and laid them out for a photo, to compare/contrast the “weapons” in her kitchen and the “weapons” in the IDF photos.

They are entirely missing the point shown in the videos. It’s not just that these weapons/tools/multi-purpose-items were aboard. It’s that they were being used extremely violently and without restraint.

35 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:47:46am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Should have disabled the engines and left them to rot.

Well, I think at some point the ship needed to be boarded and searched. They should have cleared the deck with water cannons or tear gas before attempting to board.If they shot the first 1 or two attackers immediately it would have been over pretty quick. Allowing the attacks to continue resulted in a higher death toll wich is exactly what the Peace Protesters wanted.

36 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:47:59am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

They lost the right to call themselves peace activists the second they armed themselves. There is no honor inherent in using a shitty weapon. It’s still a weapon. If you want to protest violence, you do so by being doggedly nonviolent. You do so by being so impossible to enrage that the consciences of your assailants force them to re-evaluate the utility of violence.

These people are fucking posers, and idiots. Attacking with rocks and pipes just makes you a rather shitty soldier. It doesn’t make you a protester.

37 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:48:16am

re: #30 JasonA

Hold on a second. Were they wearing the vests? If not…

If not then what’s a so called humanitarian aid ship doing bringing bullet proof vests into a blockaded port? I doubt those vests are allowable as aid even under normal channels.

38 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:48:31am

re: #20 EmmmieG

Darn it. I was trying to find the old SNL skit about that old fun children’s toy, Bag O Glass, so I could prove they were just messing around with children’s toys.

Oh well, please use your imagination.

For you. :)

39 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:48:39am

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

This is what I have been saying all along!!!

Israel should have just focused on making the boat unable to move, dropped a single radio on the deck of the ship from the air so they can call for a tow, and left. Simple, bloodless, and embarrassing. No negative PR.

There is no reliable way to disable the engines or props from outside the hull without a significant risk the vessel will catch fire or sink or both.
The Israelis also could not be sure it wasn’t loaded with explosives. A .50 caliber burst into the engine room could have been followed by a tremendous explosion, leading to accusations of a torpedo or missile attack.

40 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:49:04am

I blame Bush

41 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:49:27am

re: #20 EmmmieG

Darn it. I was trying to find the old SNL skit about that old fun children’s toy, Bag O Glass, so I could prove they were just messing around with children’s toys.

Oh well, please use your imagination.

because i like you so much. (really)

hulu.com

42 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:49:44am

re: #34 Joo-LiZ

re: #32 alexknyc

i don’t disagree with either of you. i think it’s patently ridiculous. plus, none of the photos on that particular website match up with the photos released by the shayetet.

but we should be aware of what is being said, so that we can accurately refute otherwise remarkably virulent untruths.

43 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:49:49am

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

For you. :)

GMTA, dang!

44 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:50:00am

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

There is no reliable way to disable the engines or props from outside the hull without a significant risk the vessel will catch fire or sink or both.
The Israelis also could not be sure it wasn’t loaded with explosives. A .50 caliber burst into the engine room could have been followed by a tremendous explosion, leading to accusations of a torpedo or missile attack.

/Oh look a dolphin! oh wait…

45 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:50:47am

I have read different things about the disabling of the ship.

1) In Ha’aretz an IDF General said they had decided against it because the largest ship (only the largest) was too large. It would have taken too long to tow to Israel, and risked a humanitarian crisis. Take that for what you will.

2) Other commentators have said the specific type of ship likely didn’t have propellers/rudders/that sort of thing, but instead would have had some sort “water jets” that cannot be disabled from the outside.

I know nothing about ships, so I cannot say which, if either, may be likely

46 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:50:58am

re: #29 Kefirah

it should be pointed out that the internet battle continues to rage.

[Link: ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpress.com…]

pro.flotilla types are arguing that the photos were doctored by the ministry of foreign affairs. no word yet on the youtube videos, though.

Yeah, the ancient ritual of claiming the IDF is planting evidence and doctoring photos.

Let’s see. If I were going to plant evidence I wouldn’t be planting knives and metal rods but instead AK-47s and other weapons of that type.

47 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:51:09am

re: #42 Kefirah

re: #32 alexknyc

i don’t disagree with either of you. i think it’s patently ridiculous. plus, none of the photos on that particular website match up with the photos released by the shayetet.

but we should be aware of what is being said, so that we can accurately refute otherwise remarkably virulent untruths.

I wasn’t disagreeing, I was adding to your comment.

48 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:51:22am

re: #42 Kefirah

re: #32 alexknyc

i don’t disagree with either of you. i think it’s patently ridiculous. plus, none of the photos on that particular website match up with the photos released by the shayetet.

but we should be aware of what is being said, so that we can accurately refute otherwise remarkably virulent untruths.

Don’t get me wrong— refuting lies, misinformation and errors is of vital importance. We just can’t expect the hard-line, knee-jerk anti-Israel crowd to be swayed by the refutation.

49 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:51:23am

Got an appointment, BBL.

50 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:51:35am

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

There is no reliable way to disable the engines or props from outside the hull without a significant risk the vessel will catch fire or sink or both.
The Israelis also could not be sure it wasn’t loaded with explosives. A .50 caliber burst into the engine room could have been followed by a tremendous explosion, leading to accusations of a torpedo or missile attack.

True. A also think trying to tow it into port before clearing and searching the ship is also a really bad idea. Once you tether the boats together you make yourself a nice stable target for an RPG or simple missile.

51 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:51:53am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

i don’t know how that’d be true on any level, given that they began attacking before the first soldier could even let go of the rope.

to resist or defend, don’t you first have to be attacked?

boarding ≠ attacking.

(i know you agree…i’m just trying to figure out if there’s even a small kernel of sense in that particular talking point…thanks)

52 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:52:29am

Thanks! I’m having a great time watching. One of my kids has a birthday coming up. Johnny Switchblade, action punk, for his birthday.

53 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:53:05am

re: #45 Joo-LiZ

I have read different things about the disabling of the ship.

1) In Ha’aretz an IDF General said they had decided against it because the largest ship (only the largest) was too large. It would have taken too long to tow to Israel, and risked a humanitarian crisis. Take that for what you will.

2) Other commentators have said the specific type of ship likely didn’t have propellers/rudders/that sort of thing, but instead would have had some sort “water jets” that cannot be disabled from the outside.

I know nothing about ships, so I cannot say which, if either, may be likely

you’d have to foul the rudder or props, not exactly an easy thing to do

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:53:14am

re: #41 Aceofwhat?

because i like you so much. (really)

[Link: www.hulu.com…]

Just for future reference, Hulu is owned by NBC. This is why Hulu is the only place on the web where you can find SNL video clips.

55 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:53:37am

re: #53 albusteve

you’d have to foul the rudder or props, not exactly an easy thing to do

Can you try Top Kill?

56 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:53:57am

re: #50 Killgore Trout

And what you end up doing is letting those on board prepare for an encounter to come, lose the element of surprise (what little there was), and put even more Israeli troops at risk. Doing the intervention at sea was the least risky option, but those IDF involved didn’t have the right equipment for the task to minimize the potential for loss of life - by going in with overwhelming numbers/force to subdue those on board and with insufficient nonlethal systems to disable those who might resist. Paintball guns aren’t going to cut it.

57 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:54:30am

re: #50 Killgore Trout

True. A also think trying to tow it into port before clearing and searching the ship is also a really bad idea. Once you tether the boats together you make yourself a nice stable target for an RPG or simple missile.

I think your idea of clearing the decks with water cannon and tear gas has real merit. I’ve given some thought to a helicopter mounted water cannon for fighting high-rise fires. It would work just as well for this kind of thing.

58 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:54:34am

re: #2 Obdicut

As clear and damning as this is, most of the anti-Israel people will say that they were preparing to ‘defend’ themselves.

I’m glad this is out there, though. Hopefully at least some people will understand.

There was never a threat, per se. The Israelis made clear they were boarding to inspect the cargo. That is nota threat to life and limb.

The other 5 ships saw no violence.

59 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:54:55am

re: #53 albusteve

you’d have to foul the rudder or props, not exactly an easy thing to do

I still think that the best way to stop something is to place something bigger in it’s path.

60 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:55:10am

re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth

Just for future reference, Hulu is owned by NBC. This is why Hulu is the only place on the web where you can find SNL video clips.

i acknowledge your superior intertoob-fu. well done.

i was just brown-nosing Emmie, anyway. she really is one of my favorite lizards. consistently hilarious.

61 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:55:57am

re: #60 Aceofwhat?

*Blushes*

62 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:56:38am

re: #58 researchok

Yep. That’s why I put ‘defend’ in quotes. It’s the same way the person ‘defended’ themselves from the Census worker.

63 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:56:38am

Lying. It’s what’s for dinner.
Your text to link…

Gov. Jan Brewer said in a recent interview that her father died fighting Nazis in Germany. In fact, the death of Wilford Drinkwine came 10 years after World War II had ended.

During the war, Drinkwine worked as a civilian supervisor for a naval munitions depot in Hawthorne, Nev. He died of lung disease in 1955 in California.

Brewer made the comment to The Arizona Republic while talking about the criticism she has taken since signing SB 1070, the new immigration law that makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally.

“Knowing that my father died fighting the Nazi regime in Germany, that I lost him when I was 11 because of that… and then to have them call me Hitler’s daughter. It hurts. It’s ugliness beyond anything I’ve ever experienced,” Brewer said in the story, published Tuesday.

64 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:56:39am

And of course, Hamas will play this up for all it’s worth while it’s people are starving and dying waiting for aid…

“Israel has attempted to deliver humanitarian aid from an international flotilla to Gaza, but Hamas — which controls the territory — has refused to accept the cargo, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday.”

cnn.com

65 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:56:51am

re: #53 albusteve

you’d have to foul the rudder or props, not exactly an easy thing to do

In addition, fouling the props can bend and warp the shafts very quickly, especially if they are turning at high power. This can split the bottom seams and lead to catastrophic flooding. It has happened more than once, most notably to HMS Prince of Wales during World War 2.

66 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:56:56am

re: #59 brookly red

I still think that the best way to stop something is to place something bigger in it’s path.

sounds good on paper…this is a big ass boat tho

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:04am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The lefty talking point is that the “Peace Activists” were within their rights to resist. I suppose on some level that’s true. However, They are also responsible for their own deaths in doing so.

I suppose a person has a right to go to war.

Once they’ve done that, the chances of them being treated like a peace activist become slim.

68 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:14am

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

Can you try Top Kill?

A Junk Shot, right into the water turbines.

69 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:39am

re: #25 Gus 802

Caught with their own security cameras.

Apparently they were using the electric saws to cut up the hand and guardrails of the ship to create the metal “bats.” More here including a photo of the Turkish bullet proof vests;

Photos of Bullet Proof Vests, Sawn-Off Rods, Night Vision Goggles and Rifle Scope Found on Mavi Marmara, 2 June 2010

Well, clearly those items are of military value and do not belong in the hands of Hamas.

The decision to inspect the ship was warranted.

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:48am

re: #60 Aceofwhat?

i acknowledge your superior intertoob-fu.

Thanks, but it’s not all that superior really. It only works for pr0n and comedy.

71 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:58am

re: #63 JasonA

Lying. It’s what’s for dinner.

ouch. that’s not going to help…

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:58:11am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Hey Mayor Bloommberg, we found your “somebody with a political agenda who doesn’t like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.” type.

There are twelve people dead. Perhaps we could hold off on making fun of Bloomberg for a sec?

73 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:58:35am

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

In addition, fouling the props can bend and warp the shafts very quickly, especially if they are turning at high power. This can split the bottom seams and lead to catastrophic flooding. It has happened more than once, most notably to HMS Prince of Wales during World War 2.

well there you have it…thanks

74 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:59:11am

re: #70 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks, but it’s not all that superior really. It only works for pr0n and comedy.

like i said. superior.

//

75 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:59:19am

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

There are twelve people dead. Perhaps we could hold off on making fun of Bloomberg for a sec?

Ok…

76 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:59:20am

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

And of course, Hamas will play this up for all it’s worth while it’s people are starving and dying waiting for aid…

“Israel has attempted to deliver humanitarian aid from an international flotilla to Gaza, but Hamas — which controls the territory — has refused to accept the cargo, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday.”

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

Saw that earlier. You could see this as Hamas holding the so called aid as a “reverse hostage.” Fits the profile.

Hamas is always playing these stupid games. They’re childish and never fail to beclown themselves.

77 Bob Levin  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:59:34am

Is it just me, but it seems like the shelf life of these propoganda incidents is getting much shorter? The fallout and pressure from Jenin lasted for quite some time. But that was about half the life of the Al-Dura video. The idea is to provoke outrage among the neutral public, not preach to their choir. Cast Lead lasted about half the length of the South Lebanon War.

This incident is almost over, and if Israel figures out a new way to stop such ships, as they no doubt will, the media fire will be like an old match.

I’ve heard that another ship hoping to break the blockade should arrive soon.

78 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:00:13pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

There are twelve people dead. Perhaps we could hold off on making fun of Bloomberg for a sec?

I don’t feel sorry for the stiffs

79 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:01:24pm

re: #77 Bob Levin

I think the biggest problem is that it made the commandos appear ineffectual, and made Israel’s planners look incompetent. Israel depends on a projection of strength.

80 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:01:38pm

re: #12 EmmmieG

A slingshot is not a weapon. Just ask Goliath.

The bigger they are….

81 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:02:17pm

Idiocy abounds re: the flotilla raid:

This time it’s courtesy of David Ignatius:

By attacking the relief flotilla, Israel picked a fight with Turkey, a more dangerous foe than Hamas. The quarrel has been brewing for the past several years, and it’s a huge strategic change in the Middle East. Once Israel’s most important regional ally, Turkey now seeks to challenge Israel’s hegemony as the local superpower. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a Muslim populist with a charismatic message: We won’t let Israel push us around. Where Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is often a buffoon, Erdogan is a genuinely tough if erratic rival.

A complete misread. Erdogan is moving squarely into the Iranian camp and Turkey is sliding towards Islamization after decades of pursuing a secularist agenda. Erdogan is content to move towards a cozier relationship with Iran because he sees Iran having greater longevity than US or Israeli commitments. Turkey isn’t about challenging Israel’s hegemony, it’s about picking sides and choosing the Iranians over Israel.

Then you have Turkey’s ministers comparing Israel’s defensive blockade to Somali pirates:

The Turkish challenge was voiced Tuesday by Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who likened the Israeli attack to “pirates off the coast of Somalia.” He warned at a breakfast meeting with reporters: “Now it is time to decide: Are we in a civilized world, or do some continue to have the law of the jungle? If it is the second, we know what to do.”

Right - because the pirates are protecting what? They’re about getting ransoms and making money from shipping concerns while Israel is concerned about Hamas getting weapons to fire on Israeli civilians in the next round of the war.

With all that in mind - Ignatius’ solution? Go to the UN, which is not trustworthy under any circumstances to deal even handedly with Israel (and proof is in the pudding when the UN deliberates on matters relating to Israel far more than any other conflict area on the planet - even ones where the body count is far in excess). The anti-Israel bias is palpable, and the solution is for Israel to concede, while ignoring the terrorists that seek Israel’s destruction.

82 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:02:50pm

re: #78 albusteve

I don’t feel sorry for the stiffs

subtle as napalm, aren’t ya?

83 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:02:55pm

re: #68 Bagua

A Junk Shot, right into the water turbines.

How about a lower marine riser package?

84 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:03:43pm

re: #81 lawhawk

Oops - here’s the linky:
washingtonpost.com

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:03:56pm

re: #76 Gus 802

Saw that earlier. You could see this as Hamas holding the so called aid as a “reverse hostage.” Fits the profile.

Hamas is always playing these stupid games. They’re childish and never fail to beclown themselves.

And yet Israel is the one that ends up constantly being shat upon by the ‘international community’.

/See also “Why The Behemoth couldn’t give a flying fuck about ‘international opinion’”

86 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:08pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

How about a lower marine riser package?

surely there is something that we could insert a tube into…

87 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:09pm

re: #81 lawhawk

Idiocy abounds re: the flotilla raid:

This time it’s courtesy of David Ignatius:

Right - because the pirates are protecting what? They’re about getting ransoms and making money from shipping concerns while Israel is concerned about Hamas getting weapons to fire on Israeli civilians in the next round of the war.

With all that in mind - Ignatius’ solution? Go to the UN, which is not trustworthy under any circumstances to deal even handedly with Israel (and proof is in the pudding when the UN deliberates on matters relating to Israel far more than any other conflict area on the planet - even ones where the body count is far in excess). The anti-Israel bias is palpable, and the solution is for Israel to concede, while ignoring the terrorists that seek Israel’s destruction.

There is a silver lining.

It is becoming less likely Turkey will be asked to join the EU.

88 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:37pm

re: #81 lawhawk

Idiocy abounds re: the flotilla raid:

This time it’s courtesy of David Ignatius:

Right - because the pirates are protecting what? They’re about getting ransoms and making money from shipping concerns while Israel is concerned about Hamas getting weapons to fire on Israeli civilians in the next round of the war.

With all that in mind - Ignatius’ solution? Go to the UN, which is not trustworthy under any circumstances to deal even handedly with Israel (and proof is in the pudding when the UN deliberates on matters relating to Israel far more than any other conflict area on the planet - even ones where the body count is far in excess). The anti-Israel bias is palpable, and the solution is for Israel to concede, while ignoring the terrorists that seek Israel’s destruction.

Turkey can stuff it.

They’re assisting in this propaganda and I question their membership in NATO.

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:50pm

re: #78 albusteve

I don’t feel sorry for the stiffs

I think she may be referring to different stiffs.

90 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:50pm

Gaza Flotilla Carried 40 al-Qaeda Members, Says Israel


“We had intelligence on some of the people,” said Avital Leibovich, a spokesperson for the IDF.

According to Leibovich, the al-Qaeda connection was leaked by an unidentified member of the Israeli parliament following Tuesday morning’s security cabinet briefing.

While no evidence has been provided thus far to back up the claim, the IDF is calling the 40 individuals “mercenaries belonging to the al-Qaeda terror organization.”

According to the IDF, the individuals wore bulletproof vests, and carried night-vision goggles and weapons. Each also had the exact same amount of a large cash sum in their pockets.

Other protesters aboard the Marmara were on the lower deck when Israeli commando forces landed on the ship early Monday morning, local time. The group of 40 remained on the top deck to fight.

91 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:04:58pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

This is what I have been saying all along!!!

Israel should have just focused on making the boat unable to move, dropped a single radio on the deck of the ship from the air so they can call for a tow, and left. Simple, bloodless, and embarrassing. No negative PR.

It would have been wrong to set them adrift. Israel would then be responsible for any harm that befell them. Also, they might have been able to repair the boat or to call for more boats, or otherwise to continue the mission. Or, they could have transferred the cargo (possibly including missiles or other weapons) to Pali boats. No dice.

92 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:05:19pm

re: #77 Bob Levin

Is it just me, but it seems like the shelf life of these propoganda incidents is getting much shorter? The fallout and pressure from Jenin lasted for quite some time. But that was about half the life of the Al-Dura video. The idea is to provoke outrage among the neutral public, not preach to their choir. Cast Lead lasted about half the length of the South Lebanon War.

This incident is almost over, and if Israel figures out a new way to stop such ships, as they no doubt will, the media fire will be like an old match.

I’ve heard that another ship hoping to break the blockade should arrive soon.

In this case, the IDF was able to provide enough video evidence to prove there case within a day.

Without that, you can bet the world would still be up in arms. If the Israelis can be vindicated, the world loses interest faster.

But, there are more ships on the way, and Turkey is keeping things “interesting”, so I expect more coverage for a little while longer, at the least.

Senior Editor of the JPost David Horovitz has some good commentary:


…
The rest of the world also received the official IDF account of what had transpired aboard the Mavi Marmara, though without Benayahu’s personal passion and precision. And, in the words of one foreign journalist with whom I spoke on Tuesday, “I didn’t believe it, and nor did anybody else. Israeli naval commandos being beaten up by peace activists and having their guns stolen? I mean, come on, how credible is that?”

The lack of credibility given to this official Israeli account, bolstered by the flow of footage from the activists aboard the vessels and the incontrovertible evidence of death, created the narrative on which the international community passed its judgment on Israel as the hours went by on Monday.
…
But for some of the foreign press, who had been less willing to accept Benayahu’s improbable account of commandos overpowered by civilians, the footage was a revelation.

“I saw it, and I realized I had done Israel an injustice,” one of my foreign colleagues said on Monday, with admirable candor. “At that point, and only at that point, I understood what the Israelis had been saying.”

Let there be no doubt about this. The failure to release in good time the video evidence that showed exactly why Israeli commandos resorted to live fire aboard the Mavi Marmara, the video evidence that would emphatically have affected the way the incident was perceived around the world, was not accidental.
….

93 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:05:19pm

re: #87 researchok

There is a silver lining.

It is becoming less likely Turkey will be asked to join the EU.

I think part of the reason for the shift is that Turkey has noticed their chances of EU membership are slim and have reacted by aligning themselves east instead of west.

94 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:05:55pm

re: #77 Bob Levin

Is it just me, but it seems like the shelf life of these propoganda incidents is getting much shorter? The fallout and pressure from Jenin lasted for quite some time. But that was about half the life of the Al-Dura video. The idea is to provoke outrage among the neutral public, not preach to their choir. Cast Lead lasted about half the length of the South Lebanon War.

This incident is almost over, and if Israel figures out a new way to stop such ships, as they no doubt will, the media fire will be like an old match.

I’ve heard that another ship hoping to break the blockade should arrive soon.

It isn’t just you. The global media are solidly in the Hamas corner, but they have been losing influence for years. Radicals and terrorists learned in the 60s that media support could make or break their causes. That is no longer the case, because the “global media” and “world opinion” are no longer synonymous.

95 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:06:19pm

re: #88 Gus 802

Turkey can stuff it.

They’re assisting in this propaganda and I question their membership in NATO.

That’s a good point.

It looks the EU prize will fade away and given the choice, NATO will happily marginalize the Turks if they push a proxy confrontation with Europe.

96 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:06:55pm

re: #94 Shiplord Kirel

It isn’t just you. The global media are solidly in the Hamas corner, but they have been losing influence for years. Radicals and terrorists learned in the 60s that media support could make or break their causes. That is no longer the case, because the “global media” and “world opinion” are no longer synonymous.

I’ll never forget my shock and dismay, as a young college student, to learn not just that the media could lie, but all the ways that they could lie.

97 Lidane  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:07:05pm

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

98 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:07:24pm

re: #93 alexknyc

I think part of the reason for the shift is that Turkey has noticed their chances of EU membership are slim and have reacted by aligning themselves east instead of west.

That may be so, but they seem bound and determined to pound the nails into their own coffin.

99 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:07:35pm

The Mason’s erect a Anubis statue at the headquarters of their secret base at Denver International Airport…

“A crew is installing a seven-ton, 26-foot-tall concrete sculpture of an Egyptian god at the airport. Anubis, a statue with a jackal-head, will be built south of the Jeppesen Terminal.”

9news.com

100 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:08:19pm

re: #78 albusteve

I don’t feel sorry for the stiffs

Steve, SFZ was referring to the victims of the British shooting rampage, not the deservedly dead “peace activists” from the Flauxtilla.

101 Bob Levin  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:08:37pm

re: #79 Obdicut

That’s true, but that’s how we learn. Israel didn’t get the expertise in urban warfare, weapons development, and overall security by not making mistakes. If another ship tries, and Israel handles it well—a two day firestorm? Epic fail for the media masters.

102 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:08:37pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

There can’t be anything to this… President Obama is the best friend Israel has ever had.

103 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:08:54pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

It’s just ODS and conspiracy stuff.

104 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:09:05pm

re: #95 researchok

That’s a good point.

It looks the EU prize will fade away and given the choice, NATO will happily marginalize the Turks if they push a proxy confrontation with Europe.

My instinct tells me that the EU membership would find Turkeys actions as admirable save for a few members. NATO on the other hand would be more pragmatic.

105 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:09:11pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

The Mason’s erect a Anubis statue at the headquarters of their secret base at Denver International Airport…

“A crew is installing a seven-ton, 26-foot-tall concrete sculpture of an Egyptian god at the airport. Anubis, a statue with a jackal-head, will be built south of the Jeppesen Terminal.”

[Link: www.9news.com…]

You obviously do not live with tween age kids. Rick Riordan, who had a runaway success with his Lightning Thief series (Greek Gods), has just started a new series with the Egyptian gods.

Who knew that Anubis could, if necessary, appear as a really cute 17 year-old boy?

106 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:09:52pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

the theory is that BOs ME policies have projected a general weakness dealing with Iran, and a fondness for the Palis, his deals with Putin, Syria, all of that…and the result is a ramping up of violence and risk taking….probably some truth in there

107 kreyagg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:12pm

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

108 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:27pm

re: #104 Gus 802

My instinct tells me that the EU membership would find Turkeys actions as admirable save for a few members. NATO on the other hand would be more pragmatic.

Maybe, maybe not. The EU Parliamentarians are one thing, EU voters/citizens quite another.

No great love there, you know?

109 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:36pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

Well there probably nothing he could have psychically done to stop it, but it could be argued that the recent lack of support from the US encouraged it… it could go either way.

110 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:42pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

Gaza Flotilla Carried 40 al-Qaeda Members, Says Israel

From that link:

It is estimated that 400 of the 700 individuals aboard the ships were Turkish; 76 were journalists.

..because Gaza has a critical need for more journalists….

111 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:56pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

Should the attacks on Israeli towns and civilians end too?

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:10:59pm

re: #96 EmmmieG

I’ll never forget my shock and dismay, as a young college student, to learn not just that the media could lie, but all the ways that they could lie.

I started to refuse being sold a “bill of goods” when I discovered that Santa Claus was a lie.

113 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:11:00pm

re: #107 kreyagg


We’ve got a live one!

114 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:11:03pm

re: #100 Shiplord Kirel

Steve, SFZ was referring to the victims of the British shooting rampage, not the deservedly dead “peace activists” from the Flauxtilla.

ahh…my bad
please excuse my dumbness

115 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:11:11pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

What the… I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes.

116 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:11:33pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

all i see there is a bunch of bullshit…i’ll be happy to blame Obama for things that are his fault, but as long as we don’t join the quasi-antisemitic europeans and others in condemning Israel, this is just bullshit.

IMHO, of course;)

117 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:11:37pm

re: #105 EmmmieG

You obviously do not live with tween age kids. Rick Riordan, who had a runaway success with his Lightning Thief series (Greek Gods), has just started a new series with the Egyptian gods.

Who knew that Anubis could, if necessary, appear as a really cute 17 year-old boy?

I’m not concerned with TV shows or video games, but I am concerned with the secret FEMA and Mason’s complex that they build under Denver International Airport. And this is just the next piece of proof in the puzzle.

118 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:12:09pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

do tell…what occupation again?

119 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:12:23pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

The Mason’s erect a Anubis statue at the headquarters of their secret base at Denver International Airport…

“A crew is installing a seven-ton, 26-foot-tall concrete sculpture of an Egyptian god at the airport. Anubis, a statue with a jackal-head, will be built south of the Jeppesen Terminal.”

[Link: www.9news.com…]

i never liked the tent look at DIA. looks like it’s permanently under construction to me…

120 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:12:42pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

There was no attack.

Israel asked to board to inspect the cargo, not to attack. Given what was found opn the ship, the inspection was warranted.

The attack was initiated by the ‘peace activists’ on one ship. The others ships were not subject to ‘attack’, only inspection.

See the videos.

121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:12:53pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

I’m not concerned with TV shows or video games, but I am concerned with the secret FEMA and Mason’s complex that they build under Denver International Airport. And this is just the next piece of proof in the puzzle.

It’s not a TV show or a video game. It’s a book.

That makes it true, you see.

122 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:12:54pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

Somehow, I think Gen. O’Neill wont be a happy camper over that.

123 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:13:18pm

re: #119 Aceofwhat?

i never liked the tent look at DIA. looks like it’s permanently under construction to me…

those are tipi’s….c’mon man

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:13:30pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

I can’t think of one thing Obama could or should have done that would have prevented or ameliorated this. I might change my mind if I knew he was aware of some things about the situation before it unfolded, but I have no reason at all to think that.

125 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:13:43pm

re: #122 lawhawk

A Goauld beachhead?

126 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:13:51pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

Bullshit. You might want to inform yourself on international law before spouting this kind of nonsense. Specifically, paragraphs 67 and 68 of the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. Quote:

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

The flotilla refused all offers to dock and inspect the cargo. They were deliberately attempting to break a completely legal blockade of the Gaza Harbor, which is controlled by a terrorist organization Hamas.

This was not an “unwarranted attack,” it was a completely legal boarding operation. The passengers had no legal right to attack the IDF soldiers.

The whole thing was staged by Turkish Islamists to get exactly this kind of reaction. You’re being played.

127 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:13:58pm

Spill Cam looks nasty with a massive new jet shooting out of the failed cut.

It looks like a high pressure steam leak, but consider it is crude oil shooting that far in water that is itself 2,200 psi. That gives you the idea of the pressure.

Image: cut_leal.JPG

128 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:14:03pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

boarding is not attacking. inspecting is not attacking.

anything else?

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:14:15pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

They’re just prepping a set for a LOST spin-off.

130 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:14:16pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

We discussed some of Michael Savage’s bat-guano ravings on the last string. He is the one who claimed that left-fossils Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn managed to orchestrate the event from Chicago, for some completely obscure reason of their own.
If Dohrn and Ayers can control the IDF general staff, Israel is in more trouble than we thought.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #102 Walter L. Newton

There can’t be anything to this… President Obama is the best friend Israel has ever had.

Oddly, his supporters don’t claim that. Some other President’s fans have claimed that title for him, with little evidence to show. Wonder who it is?

132 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:15:26pm

re: #116 Aceofwhat?

all i see there is a bunch of bullshit…i’ll be happy to blame Obama for things that are his fault, but as long as we don’t join the quasi-antisemitic europeans and others in condemning Israel, this is just bullshit.

IMHO, of course;)

It is bullshit.

This is Israel’s show- and a good one at that. The Israelis have to show the world that when it comes to protecting their citizens they won’t back down.

Ever.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:15:34pm

re: #109 brookly red

Well there probably nothing he could have psychically done to stop it, but it could be argued that the recent lack of support from the US encouraged it… it could go either way.

You can blame anything at all on ‘recent lack of support’. It’s a non-argument.

134 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:15:44pm

re: #122 lawhawk

Somehow, I think Gen. O’Neill wont be a happy camper over that.

I don’t know anything about Stargate… did watch the directors cut of the movie, but other than that… I’ve never seen any of the TV series… movie stunk.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:15:57pm

re: #114 albusteve

ahh…my bad
please excuse my dumbness

Always!

136 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:16:04pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

I’m not concerned with TV shows or video games, but I am concerned with the secret FEMA and Mason’s complex that they build under Denver International Airport. And this is just the next piece of proof in the puzzle.

Their previous secret island base was discovered and infiltrated by journalists carrying video equipment. They were able to temporarily convince the general public that the revealed documentary was a fictional TV series.

However, they’re shifting to a new location while the shifting is good and the public still has not latched onto the deception.

137 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:16:18pm

Flotilla passengers attack immigration officers


Thirteen female European activists, arrested for their participation in the flotilla to Gaza, attacked Immigration Authority officers escorting them to the airport for their deportation, the Interior Ministry reported Wednesday.
….
The ministry said the young women began to riot in the police bus conveying them to the airport. “They yelled and cursed,” said an officer of the authority’s Oz unit.


“They called us names and cursed Israel. When we arrived at Ben Gurion International Airport, two of them attacked me screaming, tried to push me, slap me, and scratch me. They yelled, ‘free Palestine’ and ‘Israel is a terror state’. They only calmed down after an entire team apprehended them.”

138 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:16:33pm

re: #129 Slumbering Behemoth

They’re just prepping a set for a LOST spin-off.

That’s the first thing I thought of “LOST;DIA”

139 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:16:35pm

re: #123 albusteve

those are tipi’s…c’mon man

it’s bush league

140 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:17:06pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Flotilla passengers attack immigration officers

Was it a peaceful attack?

141 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:17:20pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Flotilla passengers attack immigration officers

Classy.

142 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:17:43pm

re: #136 oaktree

Their previous secret island base was discovered and infiltrated by journalists carrying video equipment. They were able to temporarily convince the general public that the revealed documentary was a fictional TV series.

However, they’re shifting to a new location while the shifting is good and the public still has not latched onto the deception.

One of the secret tunnels that go from DIA into the Rocky Mountains runs right through my closet up here at 8200 feet.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:17:49pm

re: #134 Walter L. Newton

I don’t know anything about Stargate… did watch the directors cut of the movie, but other than that… I’ve never seen any of the TV series… movie stunk.

I liked the first series a great deal. The spin-offs are meh.

144 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:18:33pm

re: #120 researchok

There was no attack.

Israel asked to board to inspect the cargo, not to attack. Given what was found opn the ship, the inspection was warranted.

The attack was initiated by the ‘peace activists’ on one ship. The others ships were not subject to ‘attack’, only inspection.

See the videos.

The “activists were idiots for attacking the Israeli soldiers, and for rather transparently attempting to score a propaganda victory by attempting to incite a melee. Throwing yourself under a bus doesn’t make a point other than that you are dumb.

Israel was dumb for boarding a ship in international waters, and for doing so ineptly. Israel is dumb for playing into the narrative laid out by the “protesters”.

These are not mutually exclusive propositions. One side was inept (Israel) and the other duplicitous and disingenuous (the “protesters”) Neither excuses the other.

145 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

You can blame anything at all on ‘recent lack of support’. It’s a non-argument.

Yeah, but Obama’s recent lack of support for my bid to be Emperor of Titan really is holding me back.

Really.

146 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:18:54pm

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

That’s the first thing I thought of “LOST;DIA”

“Driving past the Egyptian god of death will most certainly make me feel comfortable to fly.”

From the comments.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:18:54pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

One of the secret tunnels that go from DIA into the Rocky Mountains runs right through my closet up here at 8200 feet.

Can you use it for anything? Trash disposal?

148 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:19:04pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked the first series a great deal. The spin-offs are meh.

I enjoyed Atlantis. Stopped watching the new one though. It couldn’t be more uninteresting if they tried.

149 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:19:20pm

re: #140 JasonA

Was it a peaceful attack?

Of course, that the only kind of attack a peace activist can make.

150 Ebetty  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:19:22pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Charming.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:19:38pm

re: #146 Bagua

“Driving past the Egyptian god of death will most certainly make me feel comfortable to fly.”

From the comments.

Yeah, there is that.

152 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:20:20pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Flotilla passengers attack immigration officers

Perhaps the Euro-media can invent a new doctrine of “international bus space” to go with their completely fictitious “no blockade enforcement in international waters” meme.

153 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:20:20pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you use it for anything? Trash disposal?

I get some of the Mason’s to deliver pizza from my favorite place in Denver. They put it on the shelf in the closet next to the birkenstocks and my pot pipe.

154 Dizzy  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:21:28pm

Noah Pollak has a great suggestion on how Israel can go on the diplomatic offensive.

155 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:21:40pm

re: #127 Bagua

Spill Cam looks nasty with a massive new jet shooting out of the failed cut.

It looks like a high pressure steam leak, but consider it is crude oil shooting that far in water that is itself 2,200 psi. That gives you the idea of the pressure.

Image: cut_leal.JPG

If you need a break from the oil, here’s a baby eagle cam…there’s one for mac and one for windows users. One of the birds looks like it has a jewel from Logan’s Run on its chest.

156 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:21:54pm

Quote of the day:

“It is our right and obligation to prevent arms from reaching Gaza. This was not a ‘Love Boat’ it was a hate boat.” - Binyamin Netanyahu

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:22:18pm

re: #148 JasonA

I enjoyed Atlantis. Stopped watching the new one though. It couldn’t be more uninteresting if they tried.

I thought Sam Carter was an outstanding character—one of the few kickass women on TV who routinely dressed and wore her hair like a normal person. A soldier and scientist, rather than a ‘warrior babe’. I appreciated it.

158 blueraven  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:22:45pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?

It is pure ODS, not to mention BS. Everything is Obama’s fault with these people. The oil spill, the flotilla…

159 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:22:59pm

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, but Obama’s recent lack of support for my bid to be Emperor of Titan really is holding me back.

Really.

I’ll support your bid to be Emperor of Titan…when does your starship leave?

160 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:23:30pm

Keep in mind that there is a declared state of war between Israel and Hamas. Israel’s blockade of Gaza is as legal as our blockade of Japan during World War 2, though a good deal less “vigorously” enforced.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:23:42pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Quote of the day:

“It is our right and obligation to prevent arms from reaching Gaza. This was not a ‘Love Boat’ it was a hate boat.” - Binyamin Netanyahu

I’m sure at least one pair of grad students fell in love somewhere out from Cyprus.

They’re getting married as soon as Israel figures out who they are and ships them home.

162 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:24:26pm

re: #158 blueraven

It is pure ODS, not to mention BS. Everything is Obama’s fault with these people. The oil spill, the flotilla…

you have no valid criticism of BOs ME policies?….none?

163 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:24:33pm

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

I get some of the Mason’s to deliver pizza from my favorite place in Denver. They put it on the shelf in the closet next to the birkenstocks and my pot pipe.

Reality is so disappointing isn’t it?

Old artifacts are actually just some old weathered stones, there are no magical machines waiting to be re-started, and an old key is just an old key that opened a dresser that is now in a landfill somewhere.

Joann’s is selling some old-looking keys with words on them for crafting purposes. I got some to make necklaces for my nieces. Now my sons each want one, mostly because they are certain that they open something cool somewhere.

Oh well, and with that, I need to go and get food for the family.

164 Sergeant Major  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:24:53pm

Maybe they thought they were being boarded by Somali Pirates… it could happen ///////// well that would have been my excuse

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:25:09pm

re: #162 albusteve

you have no valid criticism of BOs ME policies?…none?

You can think of some way that this flotilla mess is his fault?

166 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:25:15pm

re: #159 darthstar

I’ll support your bid to be Emperor of Titan…when does your starship leave?

i just need a few more appropriations…trying to sneak them into a medicaid rider so that people feel pressured to vote for them.

(God i wish that wasn’t how half of our bills actually work)

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:26:50pm

Hmm… the next step in the cycle is starting to claim that the violence was a black flag operation started by a Mossad agent planted among the protesters.

This stuff is unfortunately amazingly predictable. :-/

168 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:27:25pm

re: #155 darthstar

If you need a break from the oil, here’s a baby eagle cam…there’s one for mac and one for windows users. One of the birds looks like it has a jewel from Logan’s Run on its chest.

That’s quite nice, thank you. The sound of the birds from that steam is great, like being in the woods.

169 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:28:10pm

re: #167 oaktree

Hmm… the next step in the cycle is starting to claim that the violence was a black flag operation started by a Mossad agent planted among the protesters.

This stuff is unfortunately amazingly predictable. :-/

Alex Jones! Don’t worry, I’d bet there’s a lot of people out there that actually thinks that.

170 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:28:34pm

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

You can think of some way that this flotilla mess is his fault?

no…but that was not my point when I responded to the original link

171 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:29:59pm

re: #167 oaktree

Hmm… the next step in the cycle is starting to claim that the violence was a black flag operation started by a Mossad agent planted among the protesters.

This stuff is unfortunately amazingly predictable. :-/

honestly, it feels in many ways similar to other categories of denialism…as the raw evidence mounts, the reality-denial camp is forced to resort to more and more outrageous inventions to sustain their narrative.

172 abaleh  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:30:10pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Quote of the day:

“It is our right and obligation to prevent arms from reaching Gaza. This was not a ‘Love Boat’ it was a hate boat.” - Binyamin Netanyahu

Yes it was

173 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:30:36pm

re: #12 EmmmieG

A slingshot is not a weapon. Just ask Goliath.

MR. BIG NOSE: Hey. Your nose is going to be three foot wide across your face by the time I’ve finished with you!

MR. CHEEKY: Well, who hit yours, then? Goliath’s big brother?

174 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:30:46pm

Forward these videos to every Paleopologist you know. They should go viral. Just what I expected to see… these people are remarkable in their consistency.
Not unlike like this guy….
news.blogs.cnn.com

175 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:31:21pm

re: #172 abaleh

That was friggin beautiful. A million updings upon you and your family!

176 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:32:12pm

Evidently it’s a slow day for far right conservative outrage, so, I’ll throw this little bone to those who need their fix…

OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE OF THE DAT.

“Ted Haggard’s new church, new life, defies his old New Life Church”

content.usatoday.com

For those who are easily entertained, have fun.

177 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:32:42pm

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

You can think of some way that this flotilla mess is his fault?

it was not his fault, but now that it happened a verbal little support might help, no?

178 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:34:06pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

Sigh.

Yet another moron.

Nonviolent action means just that.

When I was much, much younger, I took part in such action in a foreign country where I was a student.

It was the 1980s, I lived in Germany, and I was sick of pointless marching demonstrations against what I considered to be the very bad idea of installing Pershing II intermediate-range nuclear missiles in Central Europe.

So instead of attending yet another shuffling demo with signs, groups of us went to “blockade” the Army bases where the missiles were going to be stationed. By sitting down in front of the gates with nothing but our bodies.

We had extensive training beforehand. We learned the history of such nonviolent actions as used by Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. We learned how to go limp so the police would have a harder time dragging us to the paddy wagons. Occasionally our groups would be infiltrated by some stupid young bravos who wanted to bring slingshots and take a more militant stand. We threw them out.

We did not, when the time came, decide that we were being “attacked” by the police and look for stones and sticks in the woods so we could stage a last-ditch act of “self-defense”. The entire point of nonviolent direct action is to show that you are defenseless, but still right. There were journalists there with cameras and we were hauled away under the glare of media scrutiny, booked, and tried in court for obstruction of private property. We went to court and gave our speeches and were sentenced. And the Germans didn’t even think about harming me or kicking me out of the country. Many of them, including many in the legal system, were highly sympathetic.

We did not pump ourselves up with talk of jihad beforehand, or secrete things about our persons that could be used as weapons, or try to teach the police a “lesson”. We were the lesson in what we did.

If the “humanitarians” on board that ship had acted accordingly, I could respect them for that.

I certainly do not respect you for confusing them with nonviolent protesters.

179 blueraven  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:34:55pm

re: #162 albusteve

you have no valid criticism of BOs ME policies?…none?

I was responding to what I read on the link provided. It is BS, period.

I have criticism for both Obama and Netanyahu.

180 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:35:06pm

re: #177 brookly red
At this point I’ll settle for silence. Anything less than a full-throated ’ you go, guys’, will be taken as tacit condemnation by the Eurabian world anyway.

181 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:35:52pm

not sure if this has been linked or not, but for those of us who are supporters of israel, you’ll kvell at the sight of this high school boy standing up for his beliefs:

Youtube Video

may we all have such spine.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:36:12pm

re: #180 tradewind

At this point I’ll settle for silence. Anything less than a full-throated ’ you go, guys’, will be taken as tacit condemnation by the Eurabian world anyway.

And by a whole lot of people here.

183 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:36:13pm

Gazilla vs. The Paint-Ball Monster

184 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:36:15pm

re: #172 abaleh

Yes it was

Classic! Hope it goes viral.

185 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:37:56pm

re: #107 kreyagg

I see people trying to ward off an unwarranted attack in international waters with improvised weapons.

I do absolutely support Israel within the 1967 borders and Israel has every right to defend itself, bu the occupation and blockade should end.

Why only “within the 1967 borders”?

186 Macha  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:37:57pm

re: #97 Lidane

I’m curious what others here think of this:

Right-wing media rush to blame Obama for Gaza flotilla incident

Since I don’t know much about the whole Israel/Gaza situation, I’m genuinely unsure how to read all that. Is it a bunch of ODS, or are there some valid criticisms mixed in with the crazy?


The Right wing media is so ravenous to lay blame on BHO they are reaching for
the ridiculous and calling it fact. The whole incident was dreamed up by those who want to smear Israel in any way possible and staged by them. It was a stunt of political manipulation that, unfortunately, lost some people their lives. However the blame must lie with the people on board the boat who made the choice to engage in this sham and who also made the choice to be aggressive and combative when there was no threat to them. They bear the responsibility for the outcome.

187 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:38:49pm

Anyone tracking the progress of the other boats that are reportedly heading towards Gaza to try for a repeat? Last I heard one was off the Italian coast.

188 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:38:57pm

re: #172 abaleh

Yes it was

Deh plein… deh plein…

189 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:02pm

re: #186 Macha

The Right wing media is so ravenous to lay blame on BHO they are reaching for
the ridiculous and calling it fact. The whole incident was dreamed up by those who want to smear Israel in any way possible and staged by them. It was a stunt of political manipulation that, unfortunately, lost some people their lives. However the blame must lie with the people on board the boat who made the choice to engage in this sham and who also made the choice to be aggressive and combative when there was no threat to them. They bear the responsibility for the outcome.

Somewhere in the universe is an asteroid headed for Earth. That, too, will be Obama’s fault.

190 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:07pm

re: #126 Charles

Excellent!

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:14pm

re: #186 Macha

The Right wing media is so ravenous to lay blame on BHO they are reaching for
the ridiculous and calling it fact. The whole incident was dreamed up by those who want to smear Israel in any way possible and staged by them. It was a stunt of political manipulation that, unfortunately, lost some people their lives. However the blame must lie with the people on board the boat who made the choice to engage in this sham and who also made the choice to be aggressive and combative when there was no threat to them. They bear the responsibility for the outcome.

They are, not to put too fine a point on it, making shit up.

192 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:17pm

re: #181 Kefirah

not sure if this has been linked or not, but for those of us who are supporters of israel, you’ll kvell at the sight of this high school boy standing up for his beliefs:

[Video]may we all have such spine.

What’s that white girl screaming about, you killed my people? Really….

I would have been chanting the shema :p

193 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:23pm

re: #178 Cato the Elder

Hippie!!!
/

194 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:39:52pm

re: #189 garhighway

Somewhere in the universe is an asteroid headed for Earth. That, too, will be Obama’s fault.

Finally, you’re coming around//

195 Macha  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:41:47pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

They are, not to put too fine a point on it, making shit up.

Yes they are!

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:41:59pm

re: #192 marjoriemoon

What’s that white girl screaming about, you killed my people? Really…

I would have been chanting the shema :p

My favorite anti-Israel protestor ‘type’ is the very Anglo girl, screaming and with rage, with a khaffiyeh wrapped commando-style around her head and across her face.

Cultural appropriation and crossdressing seems a peculiar combination.

197 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:42:00pm

re: #189 garhighway
Only if he waits until it’s too late to try to deflect it./

198 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:42:30pm

re: #18 alexknyc

Unfortunately, many in the anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian camp are resistant to facts and logic. It’s much more of a visceral reaction with most of them.

Hell, we have whole nations that are resistant to facts and logic. Look at Turkey’s leaders accusing Israel of “violating international law” and bullshit like that. They’re lying quite shamelessly about the incident. They don’t care. They have one set of rules for Israel and another set for themselves and everyone else.

199 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:43:02pm

Interesting…

Recognizing the threat to Israel of hostile and terrorist activity from Gaza, including weapons smuggling and the build-up of terrorist capabilities, weapons and infrastructure; and understanding that Israel, like all nations, enjoys the inherent right of self defense, including the right to defend itself against terrorism through appropriate action;

it is a quote from Memorandum of Understanding Between The United States and Israel Regarding Prevention of the Supply of Arms and Related Materiel to Terrorist Groups (January 16, 2009)

jewishvirtuallibrary.org

200 abaleh  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:43:48pm

re: #198 Tigger2005
The price of Arab lies


…
Indeed, the culture of lies and web of deceit that has taken root in Arab political life is a source of great weakness; Arabs are paying the price for it every day and will continue to do so as long as this mentality persists.


In the words of Abraham Lincoln, “You can’t fool all of the people all the time.” While global public opinion has been largely receptive to Arab lies, their sheer scope and ludicrousness have left many shaking their heads. When one lies so much and so blatantly, one is bound to get caught. In this respect, it would be worthwhile to pay less attention to online talkbacks and more to actual political developments.
…

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:44:30pm

re: #199 brookly red

Interesting…

Recognizing the threat to Israel of hostile and terrorist activity from Gaza, including weapons smuggling and the build-up of terrorist capabilities, weapons and infrastructure; and understanding that Israel, like all nations, enjoys the inherent right of self defense, including the right to defend itself against terrorism through appropriate action;

it is a quote from Memorandum of Understanding Between The United States and Israel Regarding Prevention of the Supply of Arms and Related Materiel to Terrorist Groups (January 16, 2009)

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org…]

Damn, we need a president like the one that was signed under in the White House again!

…oh, wait…

202 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:44:38pm

New standwithus website:

Flotilla Facts

203 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:44:45pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

Gaza Flotilla Carried 40 al-Qaeda Members, Says Israel

Al Queda is starting to look like the International Association of Darwin Award Winners.

204 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:44:52pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite anti-Israel protestor ‘type’ is the very Anglo girl, screaming and with rage, with a khaffiyeh wrapped commando-style around her head and across her face.

Cultural appropriation and crossdressing seems a peculiar combination.

hehe I think you posted this video yesterday or Monday or some parts? In all the hollering, I didn’t get a chance to view it.

I’ve been to a number of pro-Israel rallies over the years. None have been violent. One where there were pro-Arab protesters across the street, but nothing dreadful ever happened thank goodness.

205 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:45:31pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn, we need a president like the one that was signed under in the White House again!

…oh, wait…

yup he signed it… so now what?

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:45:55pm

re: #204 marjoriemoon

hehe I think you posted this video yesterday or Monday or some parts? In all the hollering, I didn’t get a chance to view it.

I’ve been to a number of pro-Israel rallies over the years. None have been violent. One where there were pro-Arab protesters across the street, but nothing dreadful ever happened thank goodness.

I’m going out to downtown SF this evening. I’ll report back.

207 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:46:17pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite anti-Israel protestor ‘type’ is the very Anglo girl, screaming and with rage, with a khaffiyeh wrapped commando-style around her head and across her face.

Cultural appropriation and crossdressing seems a peculiar combination.

You mean like this lady?

208 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:46:27pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Flotilla passengers attack immigration officers

These people are so fucked up. I’m so glad my brain is normal and not twisted like a pretzel.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:00pm

re: #205 brookly red

yup he signed it… so now what?

So now, normal diplomatic behavior, which will be chewed on for any possible scrap of an indication that Obama out to get Israel.

Big whoop.

210 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:14pm

..%P%.. ..%P%.. = my two middle fingers to the entire MSM and world anti semites.

211 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:17pm

re: #203 DaddyG
One thing’s for sure: You don’t wanna draw their number three spot.

212 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:57pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

So now, normal diplomatic behavior, which will be chewed on for any possible scrap of an indication that Obama out to get Israel.

Big whoop.

I was hoping for at least a strongly worded letter…

213 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:48:00pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder
You’re a braver man than I am, gunga cato.
But true dat.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:49:02pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

You mean like this lady?

Not really; the khaffiyeh’s being used as a scarf there. The girls I speak of actually wrap the whole thing around their head, like the boys throwing stones during the Intifada.

215 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:49:10pm

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m going out to downtown SF this evening. I’ll report back.

Oooo take your camera.

You’re not really zombie, are you?? We’ll have to call you something else. Night of the Living Dead, but I wouldn’t want to insult you…. and it’s really too long!

216 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:49:10pm

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist
When you go… to San.. Fran…cisco
Be sure to wear a keffiya ‘round your hair…..

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:49:34pm

re: #212 brookly red

I was hoping for at least a strongly worded letter…

To Witness Gaza?

218 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:49:34pm

re: #185 Alouette

Why only “within the 1967 borders”?

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Not really; the khaffiyeh’s being used as a scarf there. The girls I speak of actually wrap the whole thing around their head, like the boys throwing stones during the Intifada.

I think he just used that as an excuse to post that picture…

219 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:20pm

re: #218 JasonA

Eh, not for you, Alouette.

220 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:26pm

re: #200 abaleh

The price of Arab lies


…
Indeed, the culture of lies and web of deceit that has taken root in Arab political life is a source of great weakness; Arabs are paying the price for it every day and will continue to do so as long as this mentality persists.


In the words of Abraham Lincoln, “You can’t fool all of the people all the time.” While global public opinion has been largely receptive to Arab lies, their sheer scope and ludicrousness have left many shaking their heads. When one lies so much and so blatantly, one is bound to get caught.
…

You would think so, but consider the following:
1. Believe what I say or I keeel you!
2. Believe what I say or no oil!
3. Whose lies will you believe…mine, or those of the lying Jews?

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:42pm

re: #215 marjoriemoon

Oooo take your camera.

You’re not really zombie, are you?? We’ll have to call you something else. Night of the Living Dead, but I wouldn’t want to insult you… and it’s really too long!

I am not Zombie…but I could play her on TV.

Maybe I’ll take a point-and-click disposable.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:59pm

re: #216 tradewind

When you go… to San.. Fran…cisco
Be sure to wear a keffiya ‘round your hair…

I have my Israel ball cap.

223 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:10pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite anti-Israel protestor ‘type’ is the very Anglo girl, screaming and with rage, with a khaffiyeh wrapped commando-style around her head and across her face.

Cultural appropriation and crossdressing seems a peculiar combination.

My favorite is “Queers for Palestine.” Do they have any idea of what happens to queers in most Muslim countries?

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:40pm

re: #218 JasonA

I think he just used that as an excuse to post that picture…

Yeah, I kind of got that. But OK.

Her Svengali, BTW, is in Israeli custody, and ‘refusing medical treatment’.

225 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:52:10pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I kind of got that. But OK.

Her Svengali, BTW, is in Israeli custody, and ‘refusing medical treatment’.

Who’s that?

226 abaleh  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:52:26pm

re: #220 Spare O’Lake

The author is right in that Arafat and the PA lost all international credibility after so many of their lies were exposed. In essence Arafat was a Persona non grata in many capitals because of it.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #223 Mad Al-Jaffee

My favorite is “Queers for Palestine.” Do they have any idea of what happens to queers in most Muslim countries?

“Lesbians for Intifada” is another favorite type.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:53:10pm

re: #225 Joo-LiZ

Who’s that?

Paul Larudee. Big Free Gaza dude. ISM man. Pure evil.

229 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:53:14pm

re: #223 Mad Al-Jaffee

My favorite is “Queers for Palestine.” Do they have any idea of what happens to queers in most Muslim countries?

They’re my most favorite. All kinds of dumb, wrapped in hate and poop-eaters to boot LOLLLLLL

230 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:53:55pm

re: #181 Kefirah

not sure if this has been linked or not, but for those of us who are supporters of israel, you’ll kvell at the sight of this high school boy standing up for his beliefs:


[Video]

may we all have such spine.

Next dodgeball game, I pick him. That kid has monster stones..

231 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:55:37pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

“Lesbians for Intifada” is another favorite type.

“Lesbians against Bush” was another good one. How could that be possible?!

232 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:56:20pm

re: #231 Mad Al-Jaffee

“Lesbians against Bush” was another good one. How could that be possible?!

/do you think there might be an overlap?

233 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:57:44pm

re: #232 brookly red

/do you think there might be an overlap?

I need bit ole vats of silly humor or else I think I may cry myself to death.

234 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:14pm

IMO 6715281 or Callsign XUJW8 was last positioned off Malta puttering at about 9 knots. That was on 5/31/10 so they either stopped transmitting their position or they’re docked.

marinetraffic.com

235 kreyagg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:29pm

re: #120 researchok

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

236 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:21pm

I’ve been reading a lot on this subject and I think that while the boarding of the ship will play well in Israel, I think the long term damage done to Israeli security is more significant.

First, Egypt has partially lifted the blockade of the Gaza border. We can argue about the effectiveness the Egyptian efforts before (with the tunnels and all that), but at least they were making more than a token effort to keep Gaza bottled up for their own self interest. with the Blockade partially lifted, more supplies, guns, and bomb making material will get into Gaza and give Hamas more incentive to continue their efforts to destabilize, provoke and otherwise incite Israel into reacting.

Second, whatever you say about Turkey becoming less Secular, in the last 4 years, Israel has managed to turn a fairly steadfast ally that they would conduct joint military training and other cooperative efforts, into a relationship where both sides are effectively staring at each other with drawn daggers. This can’t be winning prospects in the long term.

Third, Israel has managed to remove the focus away from Iran and instead towards the Palestinians and Gaza in particular. Do you really think that we’re going to be able to maintain pressure on Iran now?

I’m not arguing that Israel doesn’t have a right to defend itself because it does, or to maintain a blockade over Gaza because it can. I’m arguing that the techniques used and the fallout from attempting a boarding at night are damaging. Instead Israel could have either disabled the ship, or following the commonly accepted rules for stopping a ship attempting to run a blockade (IE: contact and notify, run alongside, attempt to impede the progress, fire warning shots, then board or disable or sink).

Looking at what the ship was carrying, it’s obvious that it was a set up from the beginning. Everything was designed to maximize the damage to Israel from a PR standpoint. They even advertised that they were going to ‘run’ the blockade. The group was spoiling for a fight and martyrdom because they knew that if they got it, it would do much more damage to Israel than it would to their own cause. So Israel obliged them and gave them their martyrdom. Unfortunately for Israel, the short term satisfaction looks like it’s going to be outweighed by the long term damage.

Now what? Turkey had been making some serious noise, so Israel is attempting to do a bit of damage control:

But Israeli officials said the decision not to prosecute any of the activists — despite suspicions that they were sent to attack Israeli forces on the ship — was primarily an attempt to control the damage to Israel’s relations with Turkey

If they can ruffle feathers and instead start showing why Gaza is so dangerous, they can still keep the damage and the situation fro spiraling out of control. Someone once said that Israel survived not by always beating their enemies into the ground, but by being smarter than them, by being more clever than them. They’re going to need those smarts to navigate these thickets. and I really hope they can pull it off. I’m just worried that hotter heads will still prevail.

237 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:26pm

re: #235 kreyagg

Boring.

238 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:51pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

“Lesbians for Intifada” is another favorite type.

In Toronto we have Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. They get to march in the annual Gay Pride Parade waving their anti-Israeli placards and spewing their bile. Fortunately, it looks like they have been given the boot from this year’s parade under threat of withdrawal of public and private funding for the event.

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:00:25pm

re: #235 kreyagg

They did not use deadly force to board those ships. They boarded those ships for inspection, and were met with deadly force from terrorists on one ship.

240 abolitionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:01:17pm

re: #57 Shiplord Kirel

I think your idea of clearing the decks with water cannon and tear gas has real merit. I’ve given some thought to a helicopter mounted water cannon for fighting high-rise fires. It would work just as well for this kind of thing.

An critical factor of helicopter operation is mass of the payload. Unless the water it sprayed was pumped from the sea…

241 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:01:40pm

re: #235 kreyagg

I am very annoyed at your stupidity.

242 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:02:04pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

You just completely buy into the anti-Israel bullshit. Why?

243 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:03:47pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

“armed people”? you mean the guys with paintball guns?

good one.

244 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:04:56pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

Well maybe try looking at the videos at the top of this thread from the security cameras on the boat.

5 boats had no problem docking for inspection. Why is that?

245 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:05:57pm

looks like you fine folks have this useless idiot well in hand. i need to run…bbl

246 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:06:23pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

What rock did you just slither out from under?

247 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:08:53pm

re: #144 Fozzie Bear

The “activists were idiots for attacking the Israeli soldiers, and for rather transparently attempting to score a propaganda victory by attempting to incite a melee. Throwing yourself under a bus doesn’t make a point other than that you are dumb.

Israel was dumb for boarding a ship in international waters, and for doing so ineptly. Israel is dumb for playing into the narrative laid out by the “protesters”.

These are not mutually exclusive propositions. One side was inept (Israel) and the other duplicitous and disingenuous (the “protesters”) Neither excuses the other.

Israel is obliged to make clear that she will protect her citizens at all costs.

248 kreyagg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:10:37pm

re: #126 Charles

That Terrorist Organization, Hamas, was also elected. Like it or not the blockade is in place to fight an elected government of Gaza.
Glenn Greenwald and Norman Finkelstein would probably better at defending the legitimacy of the Palestinian government than I, but why would bother considering their points of view when you apparently must always unquestioningly support Israel.

Israel needs a safe home, all the blockade and occupation does is raise new generations of people that disagree with that statement.

249 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:11:04pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

The IDF Navy radioed to the Mavi Marmara to divert to the Port of Ashdod. If they had changed course as requested and were truly non-violent they would have let the IDF boarding party on-board with no fuss so they could proceed with the inspection.

Instead, not only did the Mavi Marmara refuse to divert to Ashdod but they proceeded to violently attack the IDF boarding party which only led to an escalation of events. The fault lies with the Mavi Marmara, its crew, and the attackers.

250 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:11:33pm

re: #248 kreyagg

You’re actually going to bring up Norman Finkelstein?

251 Jack Fate  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:11:48pm

I am a little disturbed by the group-think around here. Any comment that even questions the official IDF story is getting down-dinged.

It’s OK to disagree with a point of view without needing to click the red button.

252 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:13:36pm

re: #248 kreyagg

That they elected terrorists as government is not actually a point in the Gazans favor, you know.

They’re at war, Hamas and Isreal. The blockade is legal.

Your argument is boring.

253 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:14:31pm

re: #235 kreyagg

I have a feeling this is futile, because you’re just regurgitating talking points, but…

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

The flotilla was warned numerous times that if they continued trying to break the blockade they would be boarded. Israel even offered to let them dock in Israel, and have their cargo offloaded, inspected, and brought to Gaza if it was OK. In fact, that’s what Israel is doing with the cargo NOW.

The flotilla organizers deliberately rejected these offers, and ignored all warnings.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

And Israel did NOT use deadly force. The truth is exactly the opposite — the soldiers were armed only with paintballs, and the protesters met the boarding party with weapons and deadly force.

IDF soldiers used live ammunition only after the situation was completely out of control.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

Oh yeah, brilliant. Just let them break the blockade! And then go and inspect the cargo in Gaza!

You can’t be serious.

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:14:38pm

re: #251 Jack Fate

WTF are you talking about, exactly? Care to give an example?

255 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:22pm

re: #248 kreyagg

If Mexico freely elected Al Qaeda to lead it, and then they started firing rockets into Texas, Mexico City would be a parking lot the next day. We wouldn’t put up with it. I’m not sure why Israel is supposed to.

256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:50pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

All questions of methodology aside, Israel has every legal right to stop and inspect these ships. In addition they have every legal right to use force should those ships attempt to evade or run the blockade, which this ship was doing. There are very good reasons why you don’t always want to bring a ship into a port for inspection and verification of cargo. after all, it would have to divert to either an Israeli port, or a neutral port, and a ship laden with explosives brought into an Israeli port could could have some negative effects for the people in that city.

257 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:16:34pm

re: #251 Jack Fate

I am a little disturbed by the group-think around here. Any comment that even questions the official IDF story is getting down-dinged.

It’s OK to disagree with a point of view without needing to click the red button.

What are you the self appointed referee?

258 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:17:23pm

re: #251 Jack Fate

Down-dings do not actually hurt anyone, and do not actually have any effect whatsoever. So I’m not sure why you see it as such a pernicious thing.

As for questioning the official IDF story— I’m not aware of what the official IDF story is, I’ve formed my opinion by watching videos of the events. If there is evidence that changes the story, it will come out and I’ll see it. I have seen none that changes the story.

259 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:19:35pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

It really just boggles my mind. On the one hand we have a tiny nation made up of refugees from global prejudice and slaughter, that was attacked at the moment it declared its existence and attacked again several times after…a nation of a few million people, which is surrounded by hostile nations, rich with oil, and with teeming populations. A nation with a primary enemy that declares it should be wiped off the map, that Allah has commanded it to wipe out the Jews, and which is developing nukes to do just that. It’s a democratic nation, with complete religious freedom, freedom of speech, etc. where Muslims can build mosques, where gays can have gay pride parades, while its enemies (mostly dictatorships and monarchies) are persecuting Christians and whatever Jews are left among them and gays are imprisoned or killed. It’s a nation which produces doctors and scientists and brilliant artists and amazing inventions that could yet wean us off of fossil fuels. When this tiny nation defends itself, it uses the utmost restraint to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, but no amount of restraint is enough for you.

No, a nation’s being free and democratic does not excuse everything it does. But why is it that YOU are reflexively anti-Israel? Why do you give Israel’s enemies the benefit of the doubt, but hold Israel to impossible standards of perfection?

260 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:21:26pm

re: #235 kreyagg

All I have seen so far are IDF edited videos. If they just wanted to inspect the cargo why did they need to send armed people at night.

I am very annoyed at the reflexive support for Israel when they do these kinds of things. They did not need to use deadly force to board those ships.

They shouldn’t have stopped those ships. The proper place to inspect that cargo would have been at the docks when it’s being off loaded for the people in Gaza.

You are an idiot. For now, I’ll be nice.

Criticizing Israel is one thing- standing with and defending and apologizing for the racist and bigoted pigs is quite another.

You need to understand that support for Israel against these racist and bigoted pigs should be reflexive. There is no room for any kind of support for people who proudly racist, bigoted and homophobic. They have repeatedly and publicly made clear their genocidal intent.

Further, if these pigs really cared about humanitarian aid, they would have agreed to have the cargo transferred to Gaza by either the Israelis or the Egyptians. It was never about the aid of course- it was about the racist and bigoted epithets and threats made against Jews that really mattered.

Now that we’ve cleared that up, I have a question for you: We’ve ascertained your affinity for racists and bigots. Since racists and bigots never have only one object of derision, I’d like to know what other minorities you despise- Blacks? Indians? Pakistanis? Aborigines? Native Americans? Hispanics? Gays?

Do tell- and then get our sorry racist ass outta here.

Next time, send in one of your smarter friends. You aren’t quite yet ready for prime time at LGF.

261 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:22:00pm

re: #248 kreyagg

Israel needs a safe home, all the blockade and occupation does is raise new generations of people that disagree with that statement.

What the blockade does is protect a new generation of Israelis from having unoccupied Gaza turn into a port-of-call for SCUD missiles like the ones that are now showing up in unoccupied Southern Lebanon.

262 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:22:22pm

re: #253 Charles

Charles, there is ALOT of misinformation, obfuscation, and general fuckery out there regarding this issue. There are alot of people who mean well, don’t hate anyone, etc, who don’t see all points of view to make an honest assessment because the sources of information they are accustomed to trusting aren’t trustworthy on this issue.

Just please keep that in mind. Imagine you didn’t keep up on the situation in the M.E., and got your news from a smattering of biased sources. I know, that’s not who you are, but imagine it anyway. The average Joe doesn’t follow these issues in detail, they instead tend to find a “trusted source” to evaluate it for them.

My point is: misinformation is best countered with better information. I think you would agree that it isn’t exactly easy to find “just the facts ma’am” information regarding this flotilla incident, unless you already know where to look. Your post contains examples of what might have best been discussed at the beginning, maybe in a post. (I know, I know, get your own damn blog Fozzie.)

Just my .02. It’s not a dig, just food for thought.

263 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:22:35pm

re: #132 researchok

It is bullshit.

This is Israel’s show- and a good one at that. The Israelis have to show the world that when it comes to protecting their citizens they won’t back down.

Ever.

And the world’s hatred for Israel has increased in consequence.

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:23:08pm

re: #258 Obdicut

As for questioning the official IDF story— I’m not aware of what the official IDF story is, I’ve formed my opinion by watching videos of the events. If there is evidence that changes the story, it will come out and I’ll see it. I have seen none that changes the story.

Groupthink: ur doin it rong.
/

Actually, the vast majority of those who comment here arrive at conclusions and formulate their opinions by doing just as you describe. They look into the facts for themselves, research the evidence, and take no “official story” at face value. This is one reason why I dig hanging out here, and also why the whinging insult of “groupthink” is nothing more than baseless ad hominem.

265 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:25:12pm

re: #263 ryannon

And the world’s hatred for Israel has increased in consequence.

Because the world is fucked up. They hate Israelis for taking a piss in the morning.

266 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #250 Gus 802

You’re actually going to bring up Norman Finkelstein?

What? Like you really thought the bottom feeder not reach for the bottom of the barrel?

//

267 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:25:35pm

I would ask Charles to kill a troll for us, but I’m sick of halal meat.

268 Jack Fate  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:26:44pm

Ok, I get the message. Israel = truth and righteousness, no matter the actions or methods. Any criticism, implied or otherwise, need not be spoken.

269 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:26:54pm

re: #267 Cato the Elder

*grabs your shawarma*

270 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:27:22pm

re: #268 Jack Fate

Sad that you’re getting the wrong message.

271 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:27:38pm

re: #268 Jack Fate

Again, care to provide an example? Or are you just pulling these accusations out of your ass?

272 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:27:44pm

re: #268 Jack Fate

Ok, I get the message. Israel = truth and righteousness, no matter the actions or methods. Any criticism, implied or otherwise, need not be spoken.

What crap. When you post stuff like that, what you really reveal is your own irrational hatred.

273 superlizard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:28:09pm

Nice to see stuff like this back on LGF.

274 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:31:18pm

re: #251 Jack Fate

I am a little disturbed by the group-think around here. Any comment that even questions the official IDF story is getting down-dinged.

It’s OK to disagree with a point of view without needing to click the red button.

No one clicks the red button for disagreeing. Hell, people in here disagree with my right of center sorry ass all the time!

You get red buttoned for being ill informed. Or for being an idiot.

Given the realities, questioning the IDF credibility v the ‘peace activists’ is noy exactly a bright idea.

I’m trying to be nice.

275 Jack Fate  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:31:30pm

While I appreciate being classified as an irrational hater (did you just buy a jump to conclusions mat?), I usually find this site a site where interesting discussions happen about current events.

This thread is disappointing for me, but we all have our biases.

276 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:33:33pm

re: #275 Jack Fate

While I appreciate being classified as an irrational hater (did you just buy a jump to conclusions mat?), I usually find this site a site where interesting discussions happen about current events.

This thread is disappointing for me, but we all have our biases.

I will stand up for you. I do not believe you are an irrational hater.

I do believe you are the poster boy for the school voucher program.

277 philosophus invidius  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:33:57pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

Compare that to the nonsense going on at Juan Cole’s “Informed [sic] Comment.” Only post toeing the party line are allowed. I made several comments attacking his line of reasoning, the credibility of his sources, etc. Almost all were “moderated” away. This is an example of mindguarding: his readers get to read only what confirms their own preconceived views.

278 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:34:25pm

re: #267 Cato the Elder

I would ask Charles to kill a troll for us, but I’m sick of halal meat.

LOLOL

279 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:34:58pm

re: #275 Jack Fate

You seem to like making accusations without giving concrete examples when asked. Why should anyone take you seriously?

280 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:35:10pm

re: #277 philosophus invidius

Juan Cole? Damn. I liked reading him during the Iranian riots.

281 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:36:23pm

re: #277 philosophus invidius

Compare that to the nonsense going on at Juan Cole’s “Informed [sic] Comment.” Only post toeing the party line are allowed. I made several comments attacking his line of reasoning, the credibility of his sources, etc. Almost all were “moderated” away. This is an example of mindguarding: his readers get to read only what confirms their own preconceived views.

There is a reason he didn’t get hired at Duke or Yale.

282 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:37:56pm

re: #265 Tigger2005

Because the world is fucked up. They hate Israelis for taking a piss in the morning.

Actually I should have said, they hate JEWS for taking a piss in the morning.

The unfortunate fact is that a great many people in this world are small minded, angry, bigoted, fearful, lacking in self-confidence, and strangers to rational thinking. Jews are a convenient scapegoat for them, taking their minds off their own shortcomings. When you reflexively support Israel’s enemies, you should be aware of the kind of people you are supporting. It doesn’t matter how many millions or billions of them there are, they are fucked up. Millions of people in many countries assisted the Nazis with the Final Solution. Hell, the U.S. refused to give European Jews refuge in this country. To the extent that we aided the Final Solution, we too were fucked up. Racism and hatred are FUCKED UP, period. It’s easy to take the side of the majority, but you’ll feel better about yourself if you stand in the light.

283 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:38:40pm

re: #265 Tigger2005

Because the world is fucked up. They hate Israelis for taking a piss in the morning.

Thank you - I hadn’t thought it out that far.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:39:21pm

re: #277 philosophus invidius

I just peeked at his site. What an asshat.

285 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:40:16pm

re: #283 ryannon

Thank you - I hadn’t thought it out that far.

There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that what I said is true. Go to memri.org and listen to some of the sermons given in mosques throughout the mideast on any given Friday.

286 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:41:06pm

re: #285 Tigger2005

There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that what I said is true. Go to memri.org and listen to some of the sermons given in mosques throughout the mideast on any given Friday.

Really? Is it that bad? I had no idea.

287 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #262 Fozzie Bear

Charles, there is ALOT of misinformation, obfuscation, and general fuckery out there regarding this issue. There are alot of people who mean well, don’t hate anyone, etc, who don’t see all points of view to make an honest assessment because the sources of information they are accustomed to trusting aren’t trustworthy on this issue.

Just please keep that in mind. Imagine you didn’t keep up on the situation in the M.E., and got your news from a smattering of biased sources. I know, that’s not who you are, but imagine it anyway. The average Joe doesn’t follow these issues in detail, they instead tend to find a “trusted source” to evaluate it for them.

My point is: misinformation is best countered with better information. I think you would agree that it isn’t exactly easy to find “just the facts ma’am” information regarding this flotilla incident, unless you already know where to look. Your post contains examples of what might have best been discussed at the beginning, maybe in a post. (I know, I know, get your own damn blog Fozzie.)

Just my .02. It’s not a dig, just food for thought.

People don’t like being told that their “trusted sources” are not trustworthy. Sounds like you think they’d take it better if a little hand-holding came with it. Doesn’t usually work that way.

288 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:06pm

Yeah. Group think. Try going into your local hipster coffee shop in The Mission and tell people that you support Israel and see how they respond. Bring a video camera to record the events. That way you can record the reasoned debate.

/

289 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:20pm

re: #286 ryannon

Really? Is it that bad? I had no idea.

Uh, yeah. Are you new to LGF?

The hatred coming out of the mosques is pretty intense.

Take a look at Memri.org.

290 Gang of One  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:40pm

re: #268 Jack Fate

Ok, I get the message. Israel = truth and righteousness, no matter the actions or methods. Any criticism, implied or otherwise, need not be spoken.

You really don’t follow this site much, do you? Blind defense of Israel’s policies is neither reflexive nor mandatory here. Criticism is explicitly welcomed here, provided you have a valid premise, facts and argument. If not, you are really just so much Gamy Buttocks.

291 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:17pm

re: #268 Jack Fate

Ok, I get the message. Israel = truth and righteousness, no matter the actions or methods. Any criticism, implied or otherwise, need not be spoken.

Actually what I’ve taken from this site, if you’re going to take a stand that may not be popular, be prepared to back it up with information. Don’t throw out a couple of statements with nothing to support it, and expect good things from it. You’ll be shot down, and rightfully so.

And you know what? so what if your karma takes a hit, sometimes it’s not the people you downding that matter, it’s the people who sit back and read what you wrote and think to themselves, ‘hmmm, that’s an interesting take’ and I think there are more people like that on this blog than you give credit for.

But it all comes back to the first point i made. If you’re going to take a stand that isn’t popular, don’t bring weak sauce and be ready to give a good rational explanation for what you’ve said. Do that, and you’ll do fine.

292 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:21pm

re: #289 Tigger2005

Uh, yeah. Are you new to LGF?

The hatred coming out of the mosques is pretty intense.

Take a look at Memri.org.

Yes, I’m kind of new here. But thank you for pointing me in the right direction!

293 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:47:14pm

re: #292 ryannon

The children’s shows. You really have to see the shows they have on tv for children in Gaza.

Take blood pressure medication first.

294 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:47:43pm

For many, siding with Hamas and Fatah is like a fashion accessory.

It’s like the Che Guevara t-shirt.

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:49:33pm

re: #289 Tigger2005

I do believe Ryannon is pulling your leg, being a bit sarcastic maybe.

296 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:49:49pm

Thank you, Jason. I’m taking my pills right now! I expect my eyes are really going to be opened soon.

297 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:50:45pm

re: #296 ryannon

Okay, now I see where this is going. You kept rolling with it, so I started thinking you could be serious…

duh

298 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:51:28pm

re: #296 ryannon

The red one!!! THE RED ONE!!! Shit, you were supposed to take the red one.

299 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:51:37pm

re: #290 Gang of One

If not, you are really just so much Gamy Buttocks.

Can there be more than two per troll?

300 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:52:49pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

I do believe Ryannon is pulling your leg, being a bit sarcastic maybe.

Thank you, SB. Just weary as shit and very pessimistic about the whole situation - which should explain the meaning of the reply that started all this nonsense.

301 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:18pm

re: #296 ryannon

Thank you, Jason. I’m taking my pills right now! I expect my eyes are really going to be opened soon.

Just swallow a whole bottle of Homeopathic Sleeping Pills™.

That should knock you out.

//

302 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:43pm

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

The red one!!! THE RED ONE!!! Shit, you were supposed to take the red one.

Mushrooms, man. That’s where it’s at.

Now, do you want to wrestle?

303 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:51pm

re: #292 ryannon

Yes, I’m kind of new here. But thank you for pointing me in the right direction!

Institutionalized hate, bigotry and racism are an integral part of of the culture.

State sponsored School curriculum and text books, media and religious instruction that constantly reflect and reinforce racism and hate are a part of the fabric of that society.

You have no idea.

304 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:00pm

re: #303 researchok

Institutionalized hate, bigotry and racism are an integral part of of the culture.

State sponsored School curriculum and text books, media and religious instruction that constantly reflect and reinforce racism and hate are a part of the fabric of that society.

You have no idea.

I guess I don’t.

By the way, have you read any of my posts over the last two or three years?

305 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:38pm

Hmm. Now that it think of it. The PA have been making homeopathic peace offerings for some time now.

//

306 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:45pm

re: #288 Gus 802

Yeah. Group think. Try going into your local hipster coffee shop in The Mission and tell people that you support Israel and see how they respond. Bring a video camera to record the events. That way you can record the reasoned debate.

/

Um, that would go fine. I could go into Muddy Waters and say that, and nothing would happen, except that someone might ask why I felt the need to mention it. Most hipsters are aggressively apolitical.

307 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:47pm

re: #302 ryannon

Now, do you want to wrestle?

That depends. Do you have guy parts or gal parts?

308 abolitionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:56:06pm

re: #291 bloodstar

Very well put.

309 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:57:01pm

re: #306 Obdicut

Um, that would go fine. I could go into Muddy Waters and say that, and nothing would happen, except that someone might ask why I felt the need to mention it. Most hipsters are aggressively apolitical.

YMMV

310 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:57:04pm

re: #304 ryannon

I guess I don’t.

By the way, have you read any of my posts over the last two or three years?

I haven’t!

I know I’m going to wish otherwise…

311 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:57:09pm

re: #307 Slumbering Behemoth

That depends. Do you have guy parts or gal parts?

From your response, I believe you have the devil in your heart. Excuse me a moment while I put some wood in the stove….

312 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:58:09pm

re: #310 researchok

I haven’t!

I know I’m going to wish otherwise…

Don’t lose any sleep over it.

In general, they’re worse than albusteve’s.

313 Gang of One  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:58:15pm

re: #299 wrenchwench

Can there be more than two per troll?

Depends on the size of the troll’s buttocks, neh?

314 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:59:07pm

re: #311 ryannon

My heart, you say? [this is where I insert the joke about throbbing organs]

315 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:59:35pm

re: #305 Gus 802

Hmm. Now that it think of it. The PA have been making homeopathic peace offerings for some time now.

//

LEAVE HOMOEOS ALONE!

316 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:10pm

re: #312 ryannon

Don’t lose any sleep over it.

In general, they’re worse than albusteve’s.

Post some links

317 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:52pm

re: #292 ryannon

Yes, I’m kind of new here. But thank you for pointing me in the right direction!

You’re welcome.

I think even many rational people, because they ARE rational, don’t get that people can hate Israel for irrational reasons, or that the people who hate Israel are being manipulated by their governments to do so, so they don’t revolt. People don’t hate Israel for what it DOES, that’s mostly just an excuse (and one that’s pushed by Israel’s enemies). They hate Israel for existing. No other nation on Earth, not even the U.S., receives the kind of vitriol Israel does for merely defending itself, for protecting its citizens.

It’s true that Israel exists on land that was formerly part of a Muslim empire. On the other hand, the area IS the former homeland of the Jewish people, and before the rise of Islam the Middle East was made up primarily of Jews, Christians, and people of other faiths. Also, the Jews did not “invade” the land and take it by force—they bought land from absentee Turkish landlords. It was sparsely populated, and most of the Arabs there did not arrive (mostly from Jordan and Egypt) until after the Jews started businesses and jobs became available. The Jews did not kick the Arabs out… in fact they improved housing and sanitation for the Arabs already there, who were living in primitive conditions.

The Palestinians were ordered to leave their homes by invading Arab armies, who promised to let them return once Israel was crushed. Israel won the war, however. While it would have been easy enough for Jordan and Egypt to re-absorb the Palestinians, it’s served their propaganda purposes much better to present them as a refugee population, cast out of their “ancient homeland” by the evil Jews. And, unfortunately, many people buy this story.

318 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:02:40pm

re: #277 philosophus invidius

Compare that to the nonsense going on at Juan Cole’s “Informed [sic] Comment.” Only post toeing the party line are allowed. I made several comments attacking his line of reasoning, the credibility of his sources, etc. Almost all were “moderated” away. This is an example of mindguarding: his readers get to read only what confirms their own preconceived views.

Juan Cole is a boil on the as of reason.

319 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:05:31pm

re: #185 Alouette

Why only “within the 1967 borders”?

That’s not old enough. What if we went back to the archeologically established limits of King Solomon’s empire?

320 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:05:49pm

re: #314 Slumbering Behemoth

My heart, you say? [this is where I insert the joke about throbbing organs]

Well, here’s a recent pic. Does it make any of your organs throb?

321 abolitionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:04pm

re: #292 ryannon

Yes, I’m kind of new here. But thank you for pointing me in the right direction!

re: #304 ryannon

I guess I don’t.

By the way, have you read any of my posts over the last two or three years?

Three months is kinda new here. Three years plus, not so much.

322 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:04pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

Juan Cole is a boil on the as of reason.

And its ass as well, I imagine.

323 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:53pm

re: #320 ryannon

You are in one weird mood today.

And the answer is Hell NO!

324 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:10:33pm

re: #323 Slumbering Behemoth

You are in one weird mood today.

And the answer is Hell NO!

I guess you don’t know the backstory behind the mushrooms, wrestling, stove, etc. If not, here it is, and it’s a doozy.

dailymail.co.uk

325 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:17pm

Surprise! Pat Buchanan is pimping the anti-Israel screeds:

Israeli Knesset Member: Israel Wanted High Number Of Fatalities
by Steve Watson – Prisonplanet.com
Navy Commander: “Next time we’ll use more force”

America’s Complicity in Evil
by Paul Craig Roberts – Global Research

Both of these crackpots are 911 truthers in addition to being consistently opposed to Israel.

Buchanan even posted a video about the USS Liberty conspiracy. This would be at buchanan dot org.

326 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:18pm

re: #323 Slumbering Behemoth

You are in one weird mood today.

And the answer is Hell NO!

When I get too stressed out, I always look for funny things to take my mind off the horror of existence….

327 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:52pm

re: #324 ryannon

I knew some of it, but you were so deceptively sly in sprinkling it throughout various posts that I missed it.

That, or you were sufficiently vague.

328 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:33pm

re: #325 Gus 802

Surprise! Pat Buchanan is pimping the anti-Israel screeds:

Both of these crackpots are 911 truthers in addition to being consistently opposed to Israel.

Buchanan even posted a video about the USS Liberty conspiracy. This would be at buchanan dot org.

It’s a sad day when you realize exactly what these morons will say, right on cue.

329 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:15:20pm

re: #317 Tigger2005

You’re welcome.

I think even many rational people, because they ARE rational, don’t get that people can hate Israel for irrational reasons, or that the people who hate Israel are being manipulated by their governments to do so, so they don’t revolt. People don’t hate Israel for what it DOES, that’s mostly just an excuse (and one that’s pushed by Israel’s enemies). They hate Israel for existing. No other nation on Earth, not even the U.S., receives the kind of vitriol Israel does for merely defending itself, for protecting its citizens.

It’s true that Israel exists on land that was formerly part of a Muslim empire. On the other hand, the area IS the former homeland of the Jewish people, and before the rise of Islam the Middle East was made up primarily of Jews, Christians, and people of other faiths. Also, the Jews did not “invade” the land and take it by force—they bought land from absentee Turkish landlords. It was sparsely populated, and most of the Arabs there did not arrive (mostly from Jordan and Egypt) until after the Jews started businesses and jobs became available. The Jews did not kick the Arabs out… in fact they improved housing and sanitation for the Arabs already there, who were living in primitive conditions.

The Palestinians were ordered to leave their homes by invading Arab armies, who promised to let them return once Israel was crushed. Israel won the war, however. While it would have been easy enough for Jordan and Egypt to re-absorb the Palestinians, it’s served their propaganda purposes much better to present them as a refugee population, cast out of their “ancient homeland” by the evil Jews. And, unfortunately, many people buy this story.

Well, I see that your heart is in the right place. No need for us to wrestle.

330 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:16:57pm

re: #327 Slumbering Behemoth

I knew some of it, but you were so deceptively sly in sprinkling it throughout various posts that I missed it.

That, or you were sufficiently vague.

Nouvelle vague, if you please.

I’m very nouvelle vague.

331 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:17:40pm

re: #328 researchok

It’s a sad day when you realize exactly what these morons will say, right on cue.

Yep. Default positions are easy to predict. It’s always interesting to see the far-left and the far-right converge on the matter of Israel. Ideology is like a circle and you can find idea that meet at a certain point — such as 0 degrees. That being the case you’ll find similar sentiments towards Israel in places like Stormfront and Indybay.

332 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:32pm

It’s been fun, guys. Now I’m off to read the good news about BP….

333 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:51pm

re: #325 Gus 802

Surprise! Pat Buchanan is pimping the anti-Israel screeds:

Both of these crackpots are 911 truthers in addition to being consistently opposed to Israel.

Buchanan even posted a video about the USS Liberty conspiracy. This would be at buchanan dot org.

They can both fuck off. Hopefully, though, this reduces Buchanan’s appeal to Fox News and they stop inviting him to appear on their shows.

334 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:24:22pm

This is always handy in times like this. Especially in Al Jazeera was part of the initial propaganda front regarding the “peace” flotilla.

Al Jazeera Throws Party for Child Killer (Samir Kuntar)

Youtube Video
335 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:34:12pm

re: #334 Gus 802

This is always handy in times like this. Especially in Al Jazeera was part of the initial propaganda front regarding the “peace” flotilla.

Al Jazeera Throws Party for Child Killer (Samir Kuntar)


[Video]

Good post, as that’s very important to remember.

336 dugmartsch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:34pm

So why wasn’t the ship disabled and then towed to shore? Was it too big for towing? I know the Israelis ruled this out as a solution to the problem on the grounds that it could cause a humanitarian crisis, but I’m wondering if that was a bad decision?

The human lives lost to this are tragic, but tragic loss of life is hard to avoid when your enemies are so hell bent on your destruction.

337 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:05:30pm

So…what’s so odd about club wielding *humanitarians*?

//

338 Hieronymus Bosch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:23:46pm

Preparing their weapons to attack…. well, what should anyone expect, since these despicable “aid workers” were actually secretly in league with Al-Qaeda?

And now we find out that Barney Frank is a closet Hamas supporter! Terrorists everywhere, Lord help us.

Frank, in a wide-ranging interview with the Herald, went on to say that “as a Jew,” Israeli treatment of Arabs around some of the West Bank settlements “makes me ashamed that there would be Jews that would engage in that kind of victimization of a minority.”

339 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:36:23pm

re: #338 Hieronymus Bosch

Preparing their weapons to attack… well, what should anyone expect, since these despicable “aid workers” were actually secretly in league with Al-Qaeda?

Even with the video right in front of your eyes, you’re still blinded by irrational hatred.

340 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:35pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn, we need a president like the one that was signed under in the White House again!

…oh, wait…

You do know that January 16, 2009, the president was still George W. Bush, right? Obama was inaugurated January 20th.

341 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:43pm

French judge says Turkish charity behind Gaza flotilla had terror ties
June 02, 2010 17:50 EDT

PARIS (AP) — According to a former anti-terrorism judge in France, the Turkish Islamic charity that sent a flotilla of aid ships toward Gaza had ties to terrorism networks.

The former judge says the group was linked to a 1999 plot by al-Qaida to bomb Los Angeles International Airport.

The group, based in Istanbul, is called the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief.

The former top judge says the group had “clear, long-standing ties to terrorism” when he investigated it in the late 1990s. He says the group was “basically helping al-Qaida when bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil.”
weartv.com

342 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:51pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

And its ass as well, I imagine.

Sorry, still getting used to this new keyboard. Sometimes it skips letters.

I meant to write “the ass of treason”.

343 pharmmajor  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:56:07pm

Looking over at the comments on HuffPo regarding the incident; they’re not even trying to hide their anti-Semitism.

344 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:58:42pm

re: #343 pharmmajor

Yeah…hufpo has become a cesspool of anti-semitism. Any article about Israel and the cockroaches come out.

345 Hanoch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:08:52pm

re: #251 Jack Fate

If you like discussion, then it is probably best not to start off by accusing people of “group think”, rather than making a cogent argument. If you believe you have facts that support your position, state them.

346 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:10:54pm

re: #338 Hieronymus Bosch

Preparing their weapons to attack… well, what should anyone expect, since these despicable “aid workers” were actually secretly in league with Al-Qaeda?

And now we find out that Barney Frank is a closet Hamas supporter! Terrorists everywhere, Lord help us.

So who else do you hate? Let’s have the list, clear the air. All religions, or just Jews? Teh Ghey? Women? dark-skinned folks? light-skinned folks?

347 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:33:43pm

Thank you, Charles. While we may have our differences here and there, I never doubted for one moment your integrity, honesty, and morals. LGF remains a precious resource and a force for good in a f’d up world.

348 Ning the Merciless  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:01:50pm

re: #79 Obdicut

I’m in favor of enforcing the blockade by 5”/38. en.wikipedia.org I know that’s just me, Israel is always walking on eggshells. If you are seriously concerned about enemies of Israel sneaking more weapons (or fighters) into Gaza by means of a ship full of “Peace Activists” then treat that as an act of war (Which it clearly is!). I think standard naval procedure would require a shot across the bow before attempting to sink the blockade runner. It wouldn’t take many rounds of 5” ammo to sink those small vessels and you would only need to sink one. The others would get the hint fast. Oh and next time they want to make a little flotilla of “Peace Activists” good luck on anyone lending their ship.

My understanding is that these ships were instructed to report to Haifa for cargo inspection and did not. Five other ships that were boarded managed to restrain themselves. I think this was a publicity martyrdom operation by Palestinian supporters who have never had the moral high ground and are desperate for more publicity. The usual suspects in the gutless media and high ranking libtards in Europe are cheer leading as expected.

349 fiveonefive  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:16:13pm

Doesn’t a ship actually have to cross a line to run a blockade?

Or is the ship open game on international waters once they say where they want to go?

350 Ning the Merciless  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #349 fiveonefive

I would imagine that is stated when a country announces a blockade. The line in this case could be anywhere inside Israel’s sovereign waters.

351 MagnaniomousCoward  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:07:35am

There are some international law documents stating that a ship trying to pass through a blockade can be stopped even in international waters as long as it’s warned beforehand and refuses to stop.


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