BP Covering Up Spill’s Effects?

US News • Views: 3,180

The New York Daily News quotes a British Petroleum contract worker who says BP has specifically prohibited cleanup workers from taking any pictures of dead and dying animals: Dying, dead marine wildlife paint dark, morbid picture of Gulf Coast following oil spill.

Here’s what�President Obama didn’t see when he visited the Gulf Coast: a dead dolphin rotting in the shore weeds.

“When we found this dolphin it was filled with oil. Oil was just pouring out of it. It was the saddest darn thing to look at,” said a BP contract worker who took the Daily News on a surreptitious tour of the wildlife disaster unfolding in Louisiana.

His motive: simple outrage.

“There is a lot of coverup for BP. They specifically informed us that they don’t want these pictures of the dead animals. They know the ocean will wipe away most of the evidence. It’s important to me that people know the truth about what’s going on here,” the contractor said.

“The things I’ve seen: They just aren’t right. All the life out here is just full of oil. I’m going to show you what BP never showed the President.”

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643 comments
1 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:45:13pm

It's their oil and they get to decide if it gets photographed, no matter what it happens to be covering./

2 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:45:25pm

BP will stand for "Bayou Petroleum," wholly owned by the good people of Louisiana, before this is over.

3 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:45:52pm

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

BP will stand for "Bayou Petroleum," wholly owned by the good people of Louisiana, before this is over.

There's a liability cap for that...

4 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:46:04pm

Oh, please. How could BP possibly "cover up" this spill? It is what it is: an environmental catastrophe. But because they don't want a snapshot of every dead bird they are engaged in a coverup?

Yeesh. This is bad enough without bullshit allegations making it worse.

5 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:11pm

re: #3 JasonA

There's a liability cap for that...

Maybe it will work as well as their various efforts to cap the well.....

6 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:47pm

re: #5 Shiplord Kirel

Maybe it will work as well as their various efforts to cap the well...

Now really, Ship, which cap do you think is more important to them, hm?

7 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:47:53pm

re: #4 garhighway

What are the bullshit allegations, exactly?

It's really not unusual for corporations to try to stop people from taking pictures of the aftereffects of an accident.

8 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:43pm

re: #7 Obdicut

What are the bullshit allegations, exactly?

It's really not unusual for corporations to try to stop people from taking pictures of the aftereffects of an accident.

That there is a coverup. It's absurd. The spill is visible from space. There's no covering it up.

Understand, I am no apologist for BP. They caused this by cutting corners, and they knew or should have known that a blowout at the depths and pressures involved was going to be an absolute bitch to contain.

But a coverup? Please.

9 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:50:50pm

The first thing to remember is eleven dead workers who put their lives on the line for BP. I for one will welcome the criminal negligence inquiry.

re: #4 garhighway

They are managing the scene to their advantage. Covering up what they can Screw them. It's like the "no sue" contract to work for them cleaning up their mess.

10 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:37pm

As if they can stop the shiitstorm.
I'm going back down again soon, and if I see anything covered with oil, I'm definitely going to take a picture of it and spread it around.
Unless it's still alive, and then I'll try to help.

11 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:38pm

"Shill, baby, shill!"

Does BP really think they can greenwash this in an age when everybody has a cellphone camera?

12 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:54pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Too bad, the ocean and beaches are public. This is hardly comparable to the inside of a facility where an accident happened. Frankly I'd like to see a flood of photographers.

13 Macha  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:51:57pm

re: #4 garhighway

Oh, please. How could BP possibly "cover up" this spill? It is what it is: an environmental catastrophe. But because they don't want a snapshot of every dead bird they are engaged in a coverup?

Yeesh. This is bad enough without bullshit allegations making it worse.

A downding for ignorance. You bet they are going to limit as much evidence of the impact as possible. They know that people respond emotionally to visible evidence of the loss of life to wildlife and marine life, and they base their opinions and decisions thusly. They want to preserve their image of "doing everything possible" in the aftermath of this spill. It was their greed and impatience that caused the spill in the first place.

14 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:52:21pm

re: #8 garhighway

I'm not sure you understand what they're being accused of covering up, then. It's not the spill itself, but specific effects on wildlife. That you can't see from space.

That's what the article is talking about, not covering up the spill itself-- as you say, that'd be ludicrous.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:54:14pm

"All the life out here is just full of oil."

That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

16 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:54:16pm

re: #7 Obdicut
Actually, I started to think about that after I posted. When I was flying, if anything went wrong with an airplane or a flight in any minute way, we were definitely supposed to try to discourage any picture taking, and there was no talking to the press at all.

17 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:54:26pm

I'm torn between wanting BP to get its just reward for ignoring critical safety and environmental precautions (leading to this disaster and probably stifling our ability to safely draw on the oil we need to run our country) -or- the fear that if too much political and legal pressure is put on them during the clean up and recovery they will backpedal from their offer to do ignore the liability cap and go into full lawyered mode.

18 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:54:37pm

BP spokesman Toby Odone denied the company is trying to hide the environmental damage; he noted BP has organized press visits to the spill zone and said BP cannot tell cops what to do.


Ummmm, yeah guided tours to areas that haven't been hit hard I bet.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:54:59pm

re: #1 JasonA

It's their oil and they get to decide if it gets photographed, no matter what it happens to be covering./

They'll sue that pelican if it poses for a picture.

20 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:55:11pm

re: #4 garhighway

Oh, please. How could BP possibly "cover up" this spill? It is what it is: an environmental catastrophe. But because they don't want a snapshot of every dead bird they are engaged in a coverup?

Yeesh. This is bad enough without bullshit allegations making it worse.

Tell me again how effectively "Mother Nature" is going to make it all better, why don't you?

21 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:56:06pm

re: #9 Rightwingconspirator
Does anyone know the status of those families' claims? I wonder if they will accept a settlement or file... reportedly BP was settling hundreds of claims already.

22 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:57:03pm

re: #18 Bubblehead II
They won't be able to give guided tours to the entire southern coastline of the US, which is where it appears this is hitting already.
Who knows what's in store after hurricane season for the east coast, and beyond?

23 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:57:07pm

I think this is just mother natures way of using us to get what it wants

Plastic and oil!
//

24 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:57:44pm

re: #18 Bubblehead II

BP has organized press visits to the spill zone...


Ummm, yeah guided tours to areas that haven't been hit hard I bet.


I wondered what Bagdad Bob was doing these days, BP tour guide.

25 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:01pm

re: #15 SanFranciscoZionist
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Just stomach-turning to think of.

26 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:03pm

How much oil is spilled into the ocean on a yearly basis from all sources, tankers, accidents, natural etc.

27 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:28pm

re: #21 tradewind

Unknown to me. Would OSHA have jurisdiction? I think so.

28 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:58:50pm

I want to puke.

29 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:11pm

re: #13 Macha

A downding for ignorance. You bet they are going to limit as much evidence of the impact as possible. They know that people respond emotionally to visible evidence of the loss of life to wildlife and marine life, and they base their opinions and decisions thusly. They want to preserve their image of "doing everything possible" in the aftermath of this spill. It was their greed and impatience that caused the spill in the first place.

I agree with your last sentence. I disagree that there can be such a thing as a meaningfully effective coverup under these circumstances. As several have already noted, in a world of cell phone cameras and a Gulf of Mexico with hundreds of miles of beaches, no such thing is possible.

I see BP doing a bunch of things: trying hard to stop the leak, paying for the cleanup, agreeing to pay for the economic damages (I don't know if they have actaully paid for any of that yet), and trying to mitigate their reputational damage. The first three are all good, and the last is a waste of time.

But a coverup? Absurd. There will be hundreds or thousands of photos of oily birds and the like. You'll have lots of choices.

30 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:21pm

re: #24 DaddyG
'There is absolutely no problem with the oil here! Anyone who says there is will be committing suicide on the beach! This I can promise you'!
I miss ' Mo Seef too.

31 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 12:59:51pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

Unknown to me. Would OSHA have jurisdiction? I think so.


I believe so. A work accident caused by failure to follow safety procedures resulting in death is pretty much OSHA big time fine territory.

32 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:00:05pm

re: #11 Cato the Elder

"Shill, baby, shill!"

Does BP really think they can greenwash this in an age when everybody has a cellphone camera?

Does a politician think she can lie about her father dying against the Nazis in WW2 when he passed away in 1955 and never set foot in Germany?

Answer: yes.

33 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:00:16pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

How much oil is spilled into the ocean on a yearly basis from all sources, tankers, accidents, natural etc.

Found my own answer... over 1 billion gallons, and that's just the last decade...

[Link: www.marinergroup.com...]

34 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:02:04pm

re: #22 tradewind

That's one of the wild cards in this whole mess. Just how much oil will be picked up and far inland will it be carried if strong hurricane develops between now and them getting the relief wells drilled.

35 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:02:14pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Found my own answer... over 1 billion gallons, and that's just the last decade...

[Link: www.marinergroup.com...]

Here's some more stats...

[Link: seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov...]

36 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:02:53pm

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Here's some more stats...

[Link: seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov...]

From NASA...

Oil spills account for only about five percent of the oil entering the oceans. The Coast Guard estimates that for United States waters sewage treatment plants discharge twice as much oil each year as tanker spills.

37 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:03:14pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

How much oil is spilled into the ocean on a yearly basis from all sources, tankers, accidents, natural etc.


This shows major spills (table 3).

http://www.itopf.com/information-services/data-and-statistics/statistics/

I noticed the first thing that popped up on Google as I searched for Oil Spill Statistics was an ad by BP "Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping."

38 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:04:37pm

re: #29 garhighway

I agree with your last sentence. I disagree that there can be such a thing as a meaningfully effective coverup under these circumstances. As several have already noted, in a world of cell phone cameras and a Gulf of Mexico with hundreds of miles of beaches, no such thing is possible.

I see BP doing a bunch of things: trying hard to stop the leak, paying for the cleanup, agreeing to pay for the economic damages (I don't know if they have actaully paid for any of that yet), and trying to mitigate their reputational damage. The first three are all good, and the last is a waste of time.

But a coverup? Absurd. There will be hundreds or thousands of photos of oily birds and the like. You'll have lots of choices.

BP is largely responsible for the cleanup. By trying to prevent their workers from taking icky pictures, they're attempting to control the message.

A failed, futile coverup is still a coverup. Just ask the ghost of Richard Nixon.

39 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:04:48pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

There's a difference between oil that naturally leaks into the oceans, which has been going on since the formation of oil and gas deposits around the world, and which is a gradual process, and the leak here, which is a massive amount of oil leaking in a compressed period of time.

According to this older report:

Nearly 85 percent of the 29 million gallons of petroleum that enter North American ocean waters each year as a result of human activities comes from land-based runoff, polluted rivers, airplanes, and small boats and jet skis, while less than 8 percent comes from tanker or pipeline spills, says a new report from the National Academies' National Research Council. Oil exploration and extraction are responsible for only 3 percent of the petroleum that enters the sea. Another 47 million gallons seep into the ocean naturally from the seafloor.

Don't know what that figure is worldwide. Those figures appear to be just for North American waters.

40 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:04:55pm

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

From NASA...

Oil spills account for only about five percent of the oil entering the oceans. The Coast Guard estimates that for United States waters sewage treatment plants discharge twice as much oil each year as tanker spills.


Yeah but it's treated. //

41 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:04:57pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator
I don't even know if OSHA had oversight re these rigs, as they were not US owned. Anyway, they are a regulatory agency.... and not always a good one. I meant the claims that BP is surely liable for in the deaths of the eleven ? men who died in the explosion. Depending on the offer made, it may even be better for some families to accept their settlement, if it is a fair one. Juries are a crapshoot, and working out a settlement with the lawyers could take years and years ....(not to mention a third).

42 Spider Mensch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:05:37pm

wait until this rainbow hits the Gulf Stream....you ain't seen nothing yet...if they don't get this fucking mess plugged, like real soon..that shit hits the gulf stream and give it a year...I hate being a pessimist but this can get really really worse than it is, hard to believe but true, and effect alot more than the gulf of mexico. North Atlantic..Europe... the artic...

43 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:06:50pm

re: #39 lawhawk
Kind of like the difference between nicking yourself on the fingertip vs severing an artery, I would imagine.

44 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:08:00pm

re: #37 DaddyG
Oh, brace yourself for an onslaught of commercials and p/r that will make Toyota's campaign look miniscule.

45 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:09:11pm

re: #34 Bubblehead II
The prediction is, once again, for a whopper of a hurricane season.
Not that that means anything, given recent history. Hope they are wrong again.

46 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:09:24pm

re: #41 tradewind

Speaking of lawyers and settlements, it looks like the lawyers in the 9/11 WTC workers suit are slashing their lawyer fees to get the settlement authorized by the courts.

In the letter to Judge Alvin Hellerstein, who is presiding over the case, lawyers with Worby Groner Edelman & Napoli Bern volunteered to relinquish $85 million of their anticipated $200 million payday – a third of the proposed $657 million settlement.

Hellerstein, along with thousands of the victims, excoriated the lawyers back in March after they reached a deal to net a third of the total payout. Hellerstein rejected the settlement because he believed the lawyers would get too much at the victims' expense – a move some city attorneys believed transgressed his judicial bounds.

That was all part of a settlement worked out between the lawyers representing ground zero workers and the City of New York. If it is approved, the money would be set aside and disbursed along the lines of the Victim Compensation Fund depending on the severity of ailments and disabilities - and the total of the Fund will depend on how many within the class action approve.

47 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:09:25pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Quoting Bagua who was quoting someone... The poison is in the dose.

Oil is a naturally occurring fossil, a relic of dead micro-organisms of ages past. The amazing thing is the number of people who deny this (all YEC, for example.)

Anyway, there are lots of oil spills of much smaller scale all over the world. It's a shame but usually doesn't cause great damage.

48 Macha  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:10:46pm

re: #29 garhighway

Then why, in your opinion, would they even bother to prohibit workers from taking pictures of dead marine and wildlife? The only logical reason is that they are trying to keep public opinion focused on how responsible they are now instead of how negligent they were. Everything is in flux at this time. The leak isn't stopped, and the damage continues daily. They have spent a bundle trying to manage this leak, but none of the long term damage has been paid for. And might never be. When this stuff gets to court, they want their image to be as squeaky clean as possible.

49 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:10:53pm

When the NY Daily News is more honest than British Fucking Petroleum, you know the shit's about to hit the fan.

50 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:11:43pm

re: #24 DaddyG

I wondered what Bagdad Bob was doing these days, BP tour guide.

We've beat back the oil...it's all gone! The oil is powerless against us! This black stuff you see is not here!

51 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:12:20pm

re: #47 freetoken

Quoting Bagua who was quoting someone... The poison is in the dose.

Oil is a naturally occurring fossil, a relic of dead micro-organisms of ages past. The amazing thing is the number of people who deny this (all YEC, for example.)

Anyway, there are lots of oil spills of much smaller scale all over the world. It's a shame but usually doesn't cause great damage.

I'm not diminishing this at all.. just supplying some figures... I would like to see all oil production shut down world wide, now.

52 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:12:50pm

re: #50 darthstar

We've beat back the oil...it's all gone! The oil is powerless against us! This black stuff you see is not here!

Dolphin war machines have not entered New Orleans...

O_o

53 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:13:10pm

Whatever the statistics were, I'm guessing the BP Horizons spill is going to be a game changer. Has this passed up the Ixtoc I oil spill from 1979-80 yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill#Largest_oil_spills

(Nice table of spills from Wiki BTW)

54 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:13:24pm

re: #45 tradewind

The prediction is, once again, for a whopper of a hurricane season.
Not that that means anything, given recent history. Hope they are wrong again.

Good news is the Gulf is only in the 70s and low 80s right now...that keeps storm strength down a little.

Image: gl_sst.gif

55 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:05pm

I saw an interview with BP exec yesterday, I think it was shithead Hayward. He said, "No one wants this to be over more than me, I just want my life back". Really? Did you actually just make all this about you? About you and how much it is inconveniencing you? What a dick.

56 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:11pm

re: #44 tradewind

Oh, brace yourself for an onslaught of commercials and p/r that will make Toyota's campaign look miniscule.


I was thinking they could take the BP cartoon kids they used a few years back and dip them in oil.

57 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:33pm

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

I would like to see all oil production shut down world wide, now.

You might think this strange... but I don't want to see all oil production shut down. As dirty as it is, it looks sparkling white compared to coal. We've built our society, our lives, around the use of energy to provide meaningful work (in the physics sense of the word.) Oil has been the preferred energy source for most of the transportation in this country, and for most of the world. Only a fraction of transportation is by electricity, most of that by train in the Far East.

58 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:34pm

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

From NASA...

Oil spills account for only about five percent of the oil entering the oceans. The Coast Guard estimates that for United States waters sewage treatment plants discharge twice as much oil each year as tanker spills.

Not all spills are equivalent, as the saying goes, the dose makes the poison. A slow seep at depth has no impact. It emulsifies and is degraded with its carbon entering the food chain. A surface spill near a shoreline will float in and coat everything with sticky tar. A surface spill near a shoreline in Africa will not merit any attention at all.

Location matters, as does the quantity and the depth.

59 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:15:36pm

This goes beyond normal criminal negligence. At this point BP has committed and should be charged with gross engineering malpractice, 11 counts of manslaughter, and whatever else will stick.

They proceeded to replace the drilling fluid with seawater after having just failed a negative pressure test.

They overrode the drilling crew and Trans Ocean representatives who knew better.

They refused to manually trigger the BOP in a timely manner, forced a delay that cost the BOP its operating hydraulic pressure.

They modified the goddamned BOP, and then lost the only plans to their own modifications in the blow up. They then requested original schematics from the manufacturer and proceeded to attempt a remote shutdown while operating from the wrong (unmodified) plans. How fucking hard is it to keep an offsite backup of your own engineering mods.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but who the fuck modifies their BOP in the first place? This isn't like hacking your iPhone, it's irreplaceable critical goddamned infrastructure. What kind of tool would want to void the warranty on something like that?

BP should be fucked, finished, done. Their US assets should be seized, sold and the proceeds dedicated to Gulf clean up. If any BP officials complain, they should be turned into Torgo's Executive Powder. I'm not usually this draconian, but this whole fiasco has to end with a set of consequences that will scare the crap out of even the most short sighted and selfishly interested executive.

60 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:16:26pm

re: #46 lawhawk
Thanks. Really, it's only decent.
If it's good enough for the real estate agents when dealing with high end properties, it ought to be good enough for the plaintiff's bar.

61 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:16:32pm

re: #48 Macha

Then why, in your opinion, would they even bother to prohibit workers from taking pictures of dead marine and wildlife? The only logical reason is that they are trying to keep public opinion focused on how responsible they are now instead of how negligent they were. Everything is in flux at this time. The leak isn't stopped, and the damage continues daily. They have spent a bundle trying to manage this leak, but none of the long term damage has been paid for. And might never be. When this stuff gets to court, they want their image to be as squeaky clean as possible.

When this gets to court, it will be in a Gulf of Mexico state (LA, most likely) and BP will be the least favored litigant in the history of the law. They have nothing to look forward to there. That's why you will see them settle everything they possibly can. So long as plaintiffs aren't too greedy, BP will just pay. Otherwise, they'll go into court and BP will get crushed.

So why are they doing this? My guess is that some bonehead flack thought it was a good idea. Or maybe they just want cleanup workers staying on task and doing what they are paid to do. What's the difference? As I said before, there is no such thing as a meaningfully effective coverup under these circumstances.

62 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:16:38pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

How much oil is spilled into the ocean on a yearly basis from all sources, tankers, accidents, natural etc.

The ocean's ecosystem is designed to handle natural oil seepage. This gusher isn't a natural oil seepage and it is overwhelming the ecosystem and killing the gulf.

63 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:18:12pm

re: #61 garhighway
Sometimes, depending on a family or individual situation, waiting to sue is not the wisest course.

64 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:18:16pm

re: #45 tradewind

NOAA: 2010 Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook
Issued: 27 May 2010

65 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:18:21pm

re: #62 darthstar

The ocean's ecosystem is designed to handle natural oil seepage. This gusher isn't a natural oil seepage and it is overwhelming the ecosystem and killing the gulf.

Designed?

66 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:18:33pm

re: #55 cliffster

I saw an interview with BP exec yesterday, I think it was shithead Hayward. He said, "No one wants this to be over more than me, I just want my life back". Really? Did you actually just make all this about you? About you and how much it is inconveniencing you? What a dick.


CEOs and English Lords really ought to avoid trying to empathize with the little people. It just comes out strained. What next? "Let them swim in perrier"?

67 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:19:16pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank
But our MMS gave 'em a citation for outstanding safety just months before. Think they felt a tad emboldened?/

68 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:20:31pm

re: #64 Bubblehead II
85% chance for above normal.
Let's hope, again, that they're way off.

69 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:20:54pm

re: #66 DaddyG

CEOs and English Lords really ought to avoid trying to empathize with the little people. It just comes out strained. What next? "Let them swim in perrier"?

yeah.. "Let them eat tarcake"

70 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:21:49pm

re: #65 garhighway

Designed?

Intelligently, even. ///

71 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:22:19pm

re: #56 DaddyG
I don't remember them, but I imagine that they'll be going for a makeover.

72 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:23:53pm

re: #62 darthstar

The ocean's ecosystem is designed to handle natural oil seepage. This gusher isn't a natural oil seepage and it is overwhelming the ecosystem and killing the gulf.

Who designed it?

Also, let's not get too deep into the hyperbole, it may yet kill many things in the Gulf but the Gulf itself will not be dead, just sick.

Think of it this way, we spend billions of dollars each year paving our roads with tar, now we are getting our beaches paved for free.

73 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:24:07pm

We need to start a pool on how long it takes before BP changes its name and what it will be.

74 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:24:32pm

re: #61 garhighway

...there is no such thing as a meaningfully effective coverup under these circumstances.

I dunno. They have done a good job of covering up the LA coastline and they are working on the rest of the Gulf. //

75 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #73 JasonA

We need to start a pool on how long it takes before BP changes its name and what it will be.

For sure you'll see them re-brand their retail gas stations here in the US. Their parent company? Maybe, maybe not.

76 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:26:45pm

Dang... was just there two weeks ago. 9 people injured in lightning strike at Yellowstone NP's Old Faithful geyser.

One man was hospitalized while the others suffered minor injuries.

The lightning struck about 4 p.m. Tuesday, Yellowstone spokesman Al Nash said.

He said a 57-year-old man, whose name was not released, was taken to Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Nash said his condition was not available but some bystanders performed CPR on him before rangers arrived.

77 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:27:42pm

re: #72 Bagua

Who designed it?

Also, let's not get too deep into the hyperbole, it may yet kill many things in the Gulf but the Gulf itself will not be dead, just sick.

Think of it this way, we spend billions of dollars each year paving our roads with tar, now we are getting our beaches paved for free.

Didn't mean to use 'designed'...meant capable of handling.

And no, the gulf isn't dead, but it sure as shit ain't healthy right now.

78 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:28:24pm

re: #73 JasonA

We need to start a pool on how long it takes before BP changes its name and what it will be.

Blackwater.

79 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:28:24pm

re: #42 Spider Mensch

wait until this rainbow hits the Gulf Stream...you ain't seen nothing yet...if they don't get this fucking mess plugged, like real soon..that shit hits the gulf stream and give it a year...I hate being a pessimist but this can get really really worse than it is, hard to believe but true, and effect alot more than the gulf of mexico. North Atlantic..Europe... the artic...

Not sure if you're up to date on things, but the Gulf Stream just shed an eddy, and therefore the oil is likely to remain mostly trapped in the northern gulf for the near term.

How do I know about the eddy? I'm a bit of a hurricane tracker, and gulf stream eddys supply an additional source of heat for hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. The eddy tracks to the west and then as storms rumble across the gulf, they tap into that deep water warmth and can undergo rapid intensification.

While it's good news for the oil spill (and about the only good news I've seen), it's bad news as the eddy will be tracking along the gulf over the next several months, and increases the risk to the western Gul of Mexico from very intense hurricanes.

80 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:29:10pm

re: #71 tradewind

I don't remember them, but I imagine that they'll be going for a makeover.

Here they are:
http://www.bp.com/heliospower/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=5581&contentId=7058387

The BP kids!

81 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:29:16pm

re: #78 darthstar

Blackwater.

I'm quite pissed at myself for not seeing that coming. Well played.

82 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:29:26pm

re: #67 tradewind

But our MMS gave 'em a citation for outstanding safety just months before. Think they felt a tad emboldened?/

Indeed, over-confidence was likely a major factor. The MMS also approved their well design and the fatal fluid swap. BP had likely followed these same procedures in the past without problem.

Add to this warning signs that were documented for months that show the well was never under control, and it looks like a series of mistakes, over-confidence and risk taking. BP probably thinking the worst case scenario was a BOP activation. Having that steel behemoth covering the well no doubt encourages a feeling of safety and confidence as well.

83 garhighway  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:30:15pm

re: #82 Bagua

Indeed, over-confidence was likely a major factor. The MMS also approved their well design and the fatal fluid swap. BP had likely followed these same procedures in the past without problem.

Add to this warning signs that were documented for months that show the well was never under control, and it looks like a series of mistakes, over-confidence and risk taking. BP probably thinking the worst case scenario was a BOP activation. Having that steel behemoth covering the well no doubt encourages a feeling of safety and confidence as well.

Agree.

84 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:31:00pm

re: #73 JasonA

We need to start a pool on how long it takes before BP changes its name and what it will be.

BAP : British Accidental Petroleum

85 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:31:17pm

Say Hey - Make your day a little better with BP gasoline

This one is begging for a remake.

86 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:32:23pm

re: #68 tradewind

NOAAs take on what effects a hurricane might have on the oil spill.

87 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:32:38pm

Dead dolphins on the beach are to BP what dead GI's being shipped back to Dover Air Base were to Bush: it does not make good PR to let people see them.

88 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:32:51pm

re: #54 darthstar

Good news is the Gulf is only in the 70s and low 80s right now...that keeps storm strength down a little.

Image: gl_sst.gif

Except that most of the Gulf of Mexico is running above average for this time of year. In fact almost the entire Atlantic is above average in water temperatures. :(

89 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:33:42pm

...and the winner is...

The Beeps

"...long considered the champions of clean by both friends and foes alike, the beeps come from a dimension just like ours, only a little smaller and a lot cleaner. driven by a need to clean, the beeps are powerful proponents of change when armed with just about anything - a rag, a water bottle, anything. even a piece of pizza can be turned into a cleaning tool of the utmost effectiveness in the hands of a beep."

Its self parodying it is!

90 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:34:32pm

re: #88 bloodstar

Except that most of the Gulf of Mexico is running above average for this time of year. In fact almost the entire Atlantic is above average in water temperatures. :(

Ugh...thanks for pissing in my porridge. I just looked at current temps...didn't realize they were running high.

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:34:35pm

Just so damn sad.

If I owned BP, I wouldn't want the pictures out there either.

A horrible accident.

92 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:34:48pm
Jack Burton -That is not water.
Egg Shen -Black blood of the Earth.
Jack Burton -Whatcha mean? Oil?
Egg Shen: -I mean, black blood of the Earth!
93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:35:41pm

re: #87 ralphieboy

The law (or maybe prohibition) was changed while Bush was in office, no?

94 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:37:26pm

Fuck you, you grifter. Drill, baby, drill is what got us into this mess.

95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:37:30pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Since it seems they're okay, I can say this... "The stories they'll be able to tell."

96 Stonemason  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:37:32pm

re: #93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The law (or maybe prohibition) was changed while Bush was in office, no?

the ban was started by President Bush (in 1991), kept by both Clinton and Bush, then lifted by President Obama in 2009.

97 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:38:19pm

re: #89 DaddyG

...and the winner is...

The Beeps

"...long considered the champions of clean by both friends and foes alike, the beeps come from a dimension just like ours, only a little smaller and a lot cleaner. driven by a need to clean, the beeps are powerful proponents of change when armed with just about anything - a rag, a water bottle, anything. even a piece of pizza can be turned into a cleaning tool of the utmost effectiveness in the hands of a beep."

Its self parodying it is!

lil green fuckers best not try to clean anything with my pizza...

98 Interesting Times  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:38:23pm

re: #91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just so damn sad.

If I owned BP, I wouldn't want the pictures out there either.

A horrible accident case of negligent homicide.

Fixed.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:38:44pm

re: #96 Stonemason

Oh. Thanks.

I could have looked it up... but, well, I'm fat and lazy. :)

100 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:40:13pm

The first plane of activists has landed in Turkey.

Get ready for scenes of triumphant return and glorification of those killed in the name of breaking the "occupation" and "illegal" blockade.

Oh, and that those activists will try it again. And again.

101 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:40:27pm

re: #77 darthstar

Didn't mean to use 'designed'...meant capable of handling.

And no, the gulf isn't dead, but it sure as shit ain't healthy right now.

It's horrible, we all agree.

Though so far the damage is surprisingly light, due to the depth, distance from shore, recovery and the dispersants. Alternatively, the dispersments mean far less oil is being recovered and much more diluted into the ecosytem with entirely unknown results.

At this point, I think they should be letting all the oil rise to the shore and skim it or burn it off, and just use the dispersants when a slick threatens the shore. They could be recovering much more this way and thus minimising the over all impact.

102 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:40:29pm

re: #93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The law (or maybe prohibition) was changed while Bush was in office, no?


Bush forbade it, Obama lifted the ban.

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:41:08pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

Yeah. Thanks.

104 Spider Mensch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:41:35pm

re: #79 bloodstar

Not sure if you're up to date on things, but the Gulf Stream just shed an eddy, and therefore the oil is likely to remain mostly trapped in the northern gulf for the near term.

How do I know about the eddy? I'm a bit of a hurricane tracker, and gulf stream eddys supply an additional source of heat for hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. The eddy tracks to the west and then as storms rumble across the gulf, they tap into that deep water warmth and can undergo rapid intensification.

While it's good news for the oil spill (and about the only good news I've seen), it's bad news as the eddy will be tracking along the gulf over the next several months, and increases the risk to the western Gul of Mexico from very intense hurricanes.


I pray you are correct!

105 Cineaste  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:41:37pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Found my own answer... over 1 billion gallons, and that's just the last decade...

[Link: www.marinergroup.com...]

I would venture that it's quite a bit different comparing all the oil spilled in all the oceans over a 12 month period to the oil being put out in a single location. What's scary is when we run the numbers:

20,000 barrels a day (estimates I saw put this leak between 15,000 - 25,000)
x 42 gallons per barrel
=
840,000 gallons per day
* 30 days
=
25,200,000 gallons per month
* 12 months
=
302,400,000 gallons per year

terrifying

106 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:41:41pm

re: #94 darthstar

Fuck you, you grifter. Drill, baby, drill is what got us into this mess.

By the way, this is what onshore drilling in ANWR looks like. No thanks.

107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:42:12pm

re: #94 darthstar

Well, in ANWAR at least we could get some buckets and scoop it up!

108 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:42:51pm

In Soviet Union, oil spills YOU!

109 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:43:13pm

re: #94 darthstar

Fuck you, you grifter. Drill, baby, drill is what got us into this mess.

fine...start walking

110 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:43:39pm

re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, in ANWAR at least we could get some buckets and scoop it up!

...and there is the entertainment value of watching a Greenpeace volunteer scrub oil from the fur of a pissed off polar bear. //

111 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:23pm

re: #108 Mad Al-Jaffee

In Soviet Union, oil spills YOU!


Will you be my date for the Gaz Prom?

112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:23pm

re: #106 darthstar

The animals don't look dead.

113 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:44:56pm

re: #112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The animals don't look dead.

'Ee's resting!

114 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:01pm

re: #112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The animals don't look dead.


Just pining for the Fjords.

115 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:26pm

re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, in ANWAR at least we could get some buckets and scoop it up!

With what people?

116 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:55pm

re: #112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The animals don't look dead yet.

ftfy

117 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:45:58pm

I don't know if it has been mentioned but someone had the idea that the leak could be plugged by inserting tire like devices and then inflating them...

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

any thoughts?

118 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:47:14pm

re: #117 brookly red

I don't know if it has been mentioned but someone had the idea that the leak could be plugged by inserting tire like devices and then inflating them...

Richard Gere thinks he's an expert on everything. //

119 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:47:30pm

re: #112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The animals don't look dead.

they love the pipeline

120 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:47:50pm

re: #78 darthstar

Blackwater.

I heard that name is available.

re: #94 darthstar

Fuck you, you grifter. Drill, baby, drill is what got us into this mess.

Nope. A series of errors and poor judgement got us this oil leak. This was avoidable with current technology. Also, Palin lost the election and was not the political authority who approved this well, Obama is. Do you blame him?

But yeah, carry on with the hyperbole and partisan politics.

121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:48:15pm

re: #119 albusteve

they love the pipeline

They appear to be very comfortable there. I'll trade the Gulf oil for Alaskan... can I do that?

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:48:49pm

re: #118 DaddyG

(Evil laugh)

123 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:49:08pm

re: #118 DaddyG

Richard Gere thinks he's an expert on everything. //

that is so wrong on so many levels... upding.

124 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:49:27pm

re: #106 darthstar

By the way, this is what onshore drilling in ANWR looks like. No thanks.

What's the problem in the photo? I expected to see a big oily mess or something. Is it the building?

126 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:50:14pm

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #123 brookly red

You are sick, sick lizards and I salute you. (I wondered who would get that joke...)

127 cliffster  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:50:27pm

re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They appear to be very comfortable there. I'll trade the Gulf oil for Alaskan... can I do that?

in a heartbeat

128 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:51:29pm

re: #126 DaddyG

re: #123 brookly red

You are sick, sick lizards and I salute you. (I wondered who would get that joke...)

she turned me into a newt!

didn't get any better though...

129 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:51:33pm

re: #73 JasonA
I wouldn't hold my breath.
And they're sure not going to revert to the name as we knew 'em, ' Gulf '.

130 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:52:42pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal?

I bet that settles all of this controversy in the arena of public opinion.

(I bet one red cent.)

131 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:52:50pm

re: #120 Bagua

Nope. A series of errors and poor judgement got us this oil leak. This was avoidable with current technology. Also, Palin lost the election and was not the political authority who approved this well, Obama is. Do you blame him?

But yeah, carry on with the hyperbole and partisan politics.

It was Bush's fault!

132 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:52:58pm

re: #120 Bagua

Nope. A series of errors and poor judgement got us this oil leak. This was avoidable with current technology. Also, Palin lost the election and was not the political authority who approved this well, Obama is. Do you blame him?

But yeah, carry on with the hyperbole and partisan politics.

Actually, I do blame President Obama for approving this well. But she's still lying in her tweet...

"[L]et's not forget that while Interior Department bureaucrats continue to hold up actual offshore drilling from taking place, Russia is moving full steam ahead on Arctic drilling, and China, Russia, and Venezuela are buying leases off the coast of Cuba."
-- former half-term Governor Sarah Palin, two months ago

133 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:08pm

re: #120 Bagua

The problem is still that its avoidable (Barring corporate corner-cutting and malfeasance) but not repairable. "Drill, baby, Drill!" leads us to the risk of inescapable situations like this.

134 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:17pm

re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They appear to be very comfortable there. I'll trade the Gulf oil for Alaskan... can I do that?

it would be easier to change yourself into a caribou

135 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:26pm

re: #117 brookly red

I don't know if it has been mentioned but someone had the idea that the leak could be plugged by inserting tire like devices and then inflating them...

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

any thoughts?

Yup...They are freaking car tires.. How much pressure would it take to inflate a tire at 5000 feet deep? A Nuclear Submarine build out of HY100 steel would implode at that depth in a second.. What kind of freaking tires does that 14 yr old genius think would work? Goodyear or Bridgestone?
Everybody thinks they are an engineer

136 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:33pm

re: #119 albusteve
We love the funk/
..... bring on the funk/
nah, my heart's just not in it. It's not something to joke about.

137 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:53:37pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal?

I think we're in the wrong thread, but I will venture to say that the whole thing reminds me a bit of Fort Sumter: Lincoln sent an unarmed supply ship of "humanitarian" aid to the defenders to prompt the South into firing on it. The ploy worked.

But let us not stretch the analogy too far...

138 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:54:33pm

re: #133 windsagio

The problem is still that its avoidable (Barring corporate corner-cutting and malfeasance) but not repairable. "Drill, baby, Drill!" leads us to the risk of inescapable situations like this.

how?...it's a chant, you have so little faith in the BO admin? in regs and technology?

139 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:54:50pm

re: #137 ralphieboy

- for being freakin' untrue. Lincoln didn't send the relief ships to Sumpter to provoke the South.

140 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:54:53pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

Yup...They are freaking car tires.. How much pressure would it take to inflate a tire at 5000 feet deep? A Nuclear Submarine build out of HY100 steel would implode at that depth in a second.. What kind of freaking tires does that 14 yr old genius think would work? Goodyear or Bridgestone?
Everybody thinks they are an engineer

well she is actually an engineer, no?

141 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:43pm

re: #138 albusteve

The whole point here is that they've shown they can't effectively stop the leak. It'd be freakin' foolish to not wait until they prove they can.

142 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:55:53pm

re: #139 windsagio

- for being freakin' untrue. Lincoln didn't send the relief ships to Sumpter to provoke the South.


At the first mention of "states rights" I reserve the right to ask "states rights to do what?"

143 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:56:24pm

re: #94 darthstar
I get that you hate her, but really, you're going to need to learn the definition of the word ' grifter ' if you want to keep tossing it around.
She works hard for the money.

144 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:56:41pm

re: #142 DaddyG

That works too.

Damn Civil War revisionism makes me kinda crazy >>

145 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:56:58pm

re: #142 DaddyG

At the first mention of "states rights" I reserve the right to ask "states rights to do what?"

I think it is anything not granted to the feds by the constitution, no?

146 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:56:59pm

re: #142 DaddyG

At the first mention of "states rights" I reserve the right to ask "states rights to do what?"

control their foreign borders?
just a guess

147 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:57:52pm

re: #145 brookly red

In the case he's referring to it was to 'States rights to protect personal Property'.

You support protecting personal property don'tcha?

(Hint! This might be a trap!)

148 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:58:39pm

re: #147 windsagio

In the case he's referring to it was to 'States rights to protect personal Property'.

You support protecting personal property don'tcha?

(Hint! This might be a trap!)

as long as it doesn't stand on 2 feet...

149 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:58:53pm

re: #147 windsagio

In the case he's referring to it was to 'States rights to protect personal Property'.

You support protecting personal property don'tcha?

(Hint! This might be a trap!)

Damn Yankee abolitionists took my rahts away! //

150 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:59:28pm

re: #148 brookly red

So old and baby slaves are okay?!

/No I know you are in no way saying that. I just suddenly had that goddamn ancient riddle stuck in my head.

151 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 1:59:31pm

re: #143 tradewind

I get that you hate her, but really, you're going to need to learn the definition of the word ' grifter ' if you want to keep tossing it around.
She works hard for the money.

She skimmed and skimmed as a half-term governor. Now she has people ghost-write books for her and write speeches for her and she goes out and reads the scripts in public.

152 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:00:07pm

re: #142 DaddyG
Just about anything not specifically granted to the federal government.

153 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:00:12pm

re: #151 darthstar

She skimmed and skimmed as a half-term governor. Now she has people ghost-write books for her and write speeches for her and she goes out and reads the scripts in public.


If only she had stuck to the script... ah well.

154 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:00:50pm

re: #150 windsagio

So old and baby slaves are okay?!

/No I know you are in no way saying that. I just suddenly had that goddamn ancient riddle stuck in my head.

/don't you have some volunteer work to do or something?

155 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:00:56pm

re: #152 tradewind

Just about anything not specifically granted to the federal government.


I sure hope you are a fiscal conservative and not an Antebellum plantation owner.

156 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:18pm

re: #139 windsagio

- for being freakin' untrue. Lincoln didn't send the relief ships to Sumpter to provoke the South.

He did, the idea was to provoke the South into firing the first shot

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The ploy worked, the South opened fire on the forts before the "humanitarian" aid could arrive.

They maintained they were just claiming their propery rights.

157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:30pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

At church once, the pastor pulled out one of those Styrofoam wig heads that had been taken down to the depth where the Titanic sank. The piece of styrofoam was smushed down to about the size of a lemon, recovered to about the size of an orange.

That's a lot of.. this...

158 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:50pm

re: #151 darthstar

Anyways, grifters often had to work freakin' hard.

Try the confidence game if you think its so easy!

159 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:01:52pm

re: #133 windsagio

The problem is still that its avoidable (Barring corporate corner-cutting and malfeasance) but not repairable. "Drill, baby, Drill!" leads us to the risk of inescapable situations like this.

Are you mad? Political slogans were utterly irrelevant. This was a technical balls up, not a choice.

re: #141 windsagio

The whole point here is that they've shown they can't effectively stop the leak. It'd be freakin' foolish to not wait until they prove they can.

That I have said myself. It is a brave decision, as it will have a devastating economic effect and could cost Obama the next election. But note that I have modified this position as I have come to the opinion that this was entirely preventable with current technology just by ruling out the controversial steps that BP took with this well.

It would be possible to rule out completely this type of failure while newer BOPs and containment devises are being designed. A ban will damage the Gulf economy far more than the expected impact on the fishing. And not for a year or two, but for a decade.

160 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:02:51pm

re: #140 brookly red

well she is actually an engineer, no?

No..She is a 14 year that knows nothing about the challenges at that depth...
The Navy can produce 3000 psi of high pressure air...Send 3000 pounds into deep depths just freezes the line...See the Thresher: When the pipe blew about the reactor control room and scrammed the reactor.. The only way to survive was a high pressure blow on the Ballast tanks. At depths...It froze and they sunk...
Plus what could go wrong inflating tires at 3000lb/sq. inch?

161 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:03:15pm

re: #151 darthstar
' skimmed and skimmed ' ?
Wow, soooo lucky no one minded./
She had a ghost writer? You mean like almost every other pol who writes a book?
You try traveling around from state to state, giving speech after speech, staying presentable 24-7, being a mother, wife, dealing with hostile media and see if you still think it's freeloading.

162 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:03:42pm

bbl

163 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:04:23pm

re: #156 ralphieboy

The wiki article doesn't even agree with you, and yet you linked it.

Plus you actually said 'The south was just claiming their Property Rights!"


Its depressing how much damage these people have managed to do to our educational system.

164 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:04:26pm

re: #158 windsagio

Anyways, grifters often had to work freakin' hard.

Try the confidence game if you think its so easy!

/well see people first have to listen to you and believe what you are saying...

165 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:04:41pm

re: #161 tradewind

' skimmed and skimmed ' ?
Wow, sooo lucky no one minded./
She had a ghost writer? You mean like almost every other pol who writes a book?
You try traveling around from state to state, giving speech after speech, staying presentable 24-7, being a mother, wife, dealing with hostile media and see if you still think it's freeloading.

OPS...not rational

166 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:05pm

re: #159 Bagua

C'mon bagua, the slogan reflects an overweening desire to well, drill, regardless of the risks. Obama totally fell down on that as well, altho' I understand the reasons.

That being said I'm happy to drop the slogan and go with the second bit, on which we essentially agree.

167 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:31pm

re: #160 HoosierHoops

No..She is a 14 year that knows nothing about the challenges at that depth...
The Navy can produce 3000 psi of high pressure air...Send 3000 pounds into deep depths just freezes the line...See the Thresher: When the pipe blew about the reactor control room and scrammed the reactor.. The only way to survive was a high pressure blow on the Ballast tanks. At depths...It froze and they sunk...
Plus what could go wrong inflating tires at 3000lb/sq. inch?

well no she was a 14 year old way back when she started her Ph.D. she has aged a bit since then.

168 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:06:50pm

re: #163 windsagio

The wiki article doesn't even agree with you, and yet you linked it.

Plus you actually said 'The south was just claiming their Property Rights!"

Its depressing how much damage these people have managed to do to our educational system.

yes, the NEA and all it's affiliates should be disbanded....it will take generations to undo the damage these selfish morons have caused....the system is in shambles

169 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:07:00pm

re: #161 tradewind

' skimmed and skimmed ' ?
Wow, sooo lucky no one minded./
She had a ghost writer? You mean like almost every other pol who writes a book?
You try traveling around from state to state, giving speech after speech, staying presentable 24-7, being a mother, wife, dealing with hostile media and see if you still think it's freeloading.

Todd's raising the kids right now. Sarah only takes them out of school when she needs the props.

170 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:07:16pm

re: #168 albusteve

Aah steve, I love you! <3

171 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:07:43pm

re: #163 windsagio

The wiki article doesn't even agree with you, and yet you linked it.

Plus you actually said 'The south was just claiming their Property Rights!"


Its depressing how much damage these people have managed to do to our educational system.

You're right, I checked the article:

"At that time President James Buchanan was still in office, pending Lincoln's inauguration on March 4, 1861. Buchanan refused their demand and mounted a relief expedition in January 1861, but shore batteries fired on and repulsed the unarmed merchant ship, Star of the West. The battery that fired was manned by cadets from The Citadel, who were the only trained artillerists in the service of South Carolina at the time."

I don't wanna stretch the analogy, the point was, the Palestinians were out to provoke the Israelis into firing, and the ploy worked. Just hope it does not turn out for them like it did for the Confederates...

172 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:07:57pm

re: #161 tradewind

I didn't know there were any Palin people left!

Are you constantly harassed by museums wanting to add you to their collections?

173 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:08:00pm

re: #166 windsagio

C'mon bagua, the slogan reflects an overweening desire to well, drill, regardless of the risks. Obama totally fell down on that as well, altho' I understand the reasons.

That being said I'm happy to drop the slogan and go with the second bit, on which we essentially agree.

regardless of the risks?...did you make that up, or can you read the minds of millions of people?....I think you think the latter

174 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:08:51pm

re: #171 ralphieboy

Hehe, I know what you're trying to say, but your metaphors are getting hopelessly mixed >>

175 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:08:51pm

re: #166 windsagio

C'mon bagua, the slogan reflects an overweening desire to well, drill, regardless of the risks. Obama totally fell down on that as well, altho' I understand the reasons.

That being said I'm happy to drop the slogan and go with the second bit, on which we essentially agree.

You agree with me on the second part? I changed my mind on that one mate.

Anyhoo, I can't believe I'm sat here defending BP, which is of course, Of The Devil™ so I'm going to go see a man about a dog.

176 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:08:54pm

re: #171 ralphieboy


I don't wanna stretch the analogy, the point was, the Palestinians were out to provoke the Israelis into firing, and the ploy worked. Just hope it does not turn out for them like it did for the Confederates...

I hope it does.

177 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:09:31pm

re: #173 albusteve

regardless of the risks?...did you make that up, or can you read the minds of millions of people?...I think you think the latter

That's what happens when you distill a complicated issue into a catchy phrase that only has two different words in it.

178 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:09:37pm

re: #176 Alouette

I hope it does.

Shall we dispatch General Sherman to go marching through Gaza?

179 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:09:40pm

re: #176 Alouette

I hope it does.

just shorter & with less mess...

180 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:10:05pm

re: #155 DaddyG
Unless they've perfected time travel, the antebellum part would be a problem. I guess my college sorority house did have sort of a plantation-esque feel to it, but the closest I ever got to my own personal slave was the one week that pledges had to do our laundry./
If states have no individual determination ( and I don't mean in areas of freedom that are decided by amendments and law, or in discriminatory ways ), then why have them? One big old USA would suffice.
And be boring.

181 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:10:42pm

re: #179 brookly red

just shorter & with less mess...


There's a lot less to pillage and destroy...

182 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:10:54pm

re: #169 darthstar
She earns the money. He can be Mr Mom for a while.

183 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:11:20pm

re: #177 JasonA

That's what happens when you distill a complicated issue into a catchy phrase that only has two different words in it.

which answers nothing

184 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:11:24pm

re: #175 Bagua

The place we split ways on that is how much 'preventable' matters.

I wholly agree that current technology makes this kinda mistake preventable.

It also seems like potentially criminal greed and malfeasance were tied to the mistake actually happening. There's not technology to prevent companies from cutting corners, so we need to know the repair technology is solid.

/yer right tho, I didn't fully parse your other post there... Gimme a break I just woke up!

185 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:12pm

re: #172 windsagio
And you still don't.
Are Palin people a separate race?

186 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:16pm

re: #178 ralphieboy

Shall we dispatch General Sherman to go marching through Gaza?


/no but perhaps Admiral Sestak could help with the Blockade, how convenient would that be?

187 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:28pm

re: #184 windsagio

The place we split ways on that is how much 'preventable' matters.

I wholly agree that current technology makes this kinda mistake preventable.

It also seems like potentially criminal greed and malfeasance were tied to the mistake actually happening. There's not technology to prevent companies from cutting corners, so we need to know the repair technology is solid.

/yer right tho, I didn't fully parse your other post there... Gimme a break I just woke up!

That I agree with. ~~

188 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:37pm

re: #185 tradewind

Sometimes one wonders!

189 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:42pm

re: #178 ralphieboy

Shall we dispatch General Sherman to go marching through Gaza?

wow...worlds biggest carbecue

190 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:12:46pm

I want this guys kind of luck.

Youtube Video
191 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:13:24pm

re: #187 Bagua

Hehe, thanks for reminding me that I didn't have any weird emotes in that one ><

192 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:13:31pm

re: #184 windsagio

The place we split ways on that is how much 'preventable' matters.

I wholly agree that current technology makes this kinda mistake preventable.

It also seems like potentially criminal greed and malfeasance were tied to the mistake actually happening. There's not technology to prevent companies from cutting corners, so we need to know the repair technology is solid.

/yer right tho, I didn't fully parse your other post there... Gimme a break I just woke up!


I don't think there is enough for a criminal case here, but just a case for financial responsibility for insufficient risk prevention, the sort of thing that has been lacking in American business in light of all the bailouts going on lately.

193 tradewind  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:13:35pm

Gotta run.

194 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:02pm

Good afternoon Lizardim :) How is it shaking?

195 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:28pm

re: #167 brookly red

well no she was a 14 year old way back when she started her Ph.D. she has aged a bit since then.

Uh ho..Better go back and read again...But Red..I don't care if she is older than Helen Thomas..It's a dumb idea at 5k depth...If there was one of thousands of engineers thought that would work and if it was that simple...
Goodyear would have been shipping Tires to the Gulf...
But we need to keep the idea coming...Inflating a tire at 5000 feet is a joke

196 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:37pm

re: #191 windsagio

Hehe, thanks for reminding me that I didn't have any weird emotes in that one ><

*_o

197 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:47pm

re: #192 ralphieboy

Some of the stories we've heard about what the corporates were saying are pretty chilling. Of course thats what the actual investigations are for!

198 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:14:50pm

re: #190 JasonA

I want this guys kind of luck.

[Video]

What is the Chinese for "Mr Magoo"?

199 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:15:07pm

re: #178 ralphieboy

Shall we dispatch General Sherman to go marching through Gaza?

"War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over." --William Tecumseh Sherman

200 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:15:56pm

re: #199 Alouette

"War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over." --William Tecumseh Sherman


As long as that cruelty is directed at some part of the world we are not living in right now...

201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:16:06pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Like a bowl full of jelly?

202 blueraven  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:16:34pm

re: #161 tradewind

' skimmed and skimmed ' ?
Wow, sooo lucky no one minded./
She had a ghost writer? You mean like almost every other pol who writes a book?
You try traveling around from state to state, giving speech after speech, staying presentable 24-7, being a mother, wife, dealing with hostile media and see if you still think it's freeloading.

Evidently a much easier job, and quite a bit more lucrative than being the Governor of Alaska. But then again, tweeting is hard work!

203 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:17:01pm

re: #197 windsagio

Some of the stories we've heard about what the corporates were saying are pretty chilling. Of course thats what the actual investigations are for!


I just meant that it will probably turn out to be difficult to obtain a criminal conviction. They are still financially responsible and shouled not be allowed to duck out from under that.

204 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:17:03pm

re: #199 Alouette

"War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over." --William Tecumseh Sherman

Misunderstanding this fact is the greatest error of the Israelis and whiny leftists everywhere.

Had this war been fought to win decades ago, it would have been won.

205 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:17:14pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

We're trying to determine whether Palin fans are another species or not!

Or at least I am ;)

206 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:17:45pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

Uh ho..Better go back and read again...But Red..I don't care if she is older than Helen Thomas..It's a dumb idea at 5k depth...If there was one of thousands of engineers thought that would work and if it was that simple...
Goodyear would have been shipping Tires to the Gulf...
But we need to keep the idea coming...Inflating a tire at 5000 feet is a joke

if you say so...
so what next a nuke?

207 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:22pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

There's a slight problem that Sherman's version of 'cruelty' is like super tame by modern standards. It was no Sudan or Ethiopia.

208 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:37pm

re: #199 Alouette

"War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over." --William Tecumseh Sherman

the SOB employed that exact notion against the plains tribes....complete, total, racist asshole....a murderous thug

209 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:45pm

The only good news abut the Gaza incident is that as more and more footage - including security cam footage from the ships themselves is coming out, it is becoming harder and harder for the left to have an outrageous outrage.

BBC has relatively few words on the topic today. I am sure that they are disappointed.

210 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:18:54pm

re: #206 brookly red

Let it bleed out 'till august at the earliest.

211 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:19:09pm

re: #205 windsagio

We're trying to determine whether Palin fans are another species or not!

Or at least I am ;)

Mentally disabled people are still part of the same species.

212 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:19:28pm

re: #208 albusteve

the SOB employed that exact notion against the plains tribes...complete, total, racist asshole...a murderous thug

Yes he was.

213 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:19:41pm

re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote

D'ohh! Given my work I should totally know that!


/shamed.

214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:20:09pm

re: #184 windsagio

/yer right tho, I didn't fully parse your other post there... Gimme a break I just woke up!

Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!

215 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:20:15pm

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

Well not really, but ...

216 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:20:23pm

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes he was.

well that was unexpected...I've been mauled for posting that...cheers

217 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:20:41pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Misunderstanding this fact is the greatest error of the Israelis and whiny leftists everywhere.

Had this war been fought to win decades ago, it would have been won.


What you guys seem to be advocating is nothing less than a "Final Solution", and I can imagine that the Israelis somehow could just not bring themselves to pull something like that off...

218 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:22:13pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Misunderstanding this fact is the greatest error of the Israelis and whiny leftists everywhere.

Had this war been fought to win decades ago, it would have been won.

How so? What would the situation be?

219 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:22:25pm

re: #178 ralphieboy

Shall we dispatch General Sherman to go marching through Gaza?

I'd actually like that idea. Give Gaza a taste of what total is really like.

220 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:22:48pm

re: #206 brookly red

if you say so...
so what next a nuke?

To blow a huge hole in the ground? Make the spill worse and then create a radiological crisis in the Gulf?
This is a real challenge for deep sea engineers...

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:24:03pm

re: #220 HoosierHoops

They can drive trains under water?

222 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:24:06pm

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually like that idea. Give Gaza a taste of what total is really like.

It is sad but true if you are going to make war you gotta be all in.

223 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:24:18pm

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

Different kinds of wars require different kinds of tactics.

You really can't compare the situation with the Palestinians to the situation in the American Civil War.

224 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:24:29pm

re: #24 DaddyG

I wondered what Bagdad Bob was doing these days, BP tour guide.

No. Actually, i gave him a job being my avatar.

225 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:25:04pm

re: #207 windsagio

There's a slight problem that Sherman's version of 'cruelty' is like super tame by modern standards. It was no Sudan or Ethiopia.

Look, when I say fight to win, I am not talking about, G-d forbid, wiping out all Palestinians the way that Sherman later helped to wipe out Native Americans. I am not talking about he sorts of brutality that the Russians or the Chinese or the Arabs routinely employ either.

I am saying that the Israelis ought to have the same sorts of Rules of Engagement that the US employs in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's be clear, if they have a sniper, pinning their men from a building, they should hit the building rather than risk the lives of their men trying to take the sniper on foot. Collateral damage may ensue, but that is war. If they see some terrorist planting a homemade bomb, they should shoot the terrorist without fear that they should instead attempt to be police. If they have people attempting to supply the enemy, then the supply lines and suppliers are legitimate military targets. This is something tht every other nation understands.

Only Israel is expected to attempt to be lenient police on a battlefield.

226 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:25:05pm

re: #199 Alouette

"War is cruelty and you cannot refine it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over." --William Tecumseh Sherman

And since Sherman has come up:

Youtube Video
227 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:25:26pm

re: #214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!

I'm still parsing the sermon that entailed a wig form that was crushed at the depth of the Titanic.

228 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:25:37pm

re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote

Mentally disabled people are still part of the same species.

that was wrong.

229 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:26:01pm

re: #444 albusteve

well that was unexpected...I've been mauled for posting things in the future that I didn't even know I posted ..cheers

I will downding you for your future post as well...

//

230 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:26:44pm

re: #223 windsagio

Different kinds of wars require different kinds of tactics.

You really can't compare the situation with the Palestinians to the situation in the American Civil War.


Rome pulled that trick off with Carthage, razing the city to the ground, killing all the men and selling the women and children into slavery.

But that was a different era of humanity, and Israel does not occupy the military or political position that Rome did.

I just started off comparing the situation with the supply ships to Gaza with the attempt to send supplies to Fort Sumter. And said that I did not want to stretch the analogy too far. It has already ripped and is gushing ugly like oil from a ruptured sea well...

231 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:26:50pm

re: #223 windsagio

Different kinds of wars require different kinds of tactics.

You really can't compare the situation with the Palestinians to the situation in the American Civil War.

Agreed. It just annoys me that so many activists talk of Israel 'waging a cruel war'. They no nothing of what a cruel campaign really means.

232 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:27:24pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

Not only Israel, not by half. People have made the same complaints on behalf of the US in just about every war/invasion since Vietnam (ok probalby not Grenada).

The problem with your idea is still that, in the situation of an insurgency war, if you're not really careful, you can make the situation worse. You can err too far on either side, and its a tough balance to get it right.

233 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:27:42pm

re: #229 Oh no...Sand People!

I will downding you for your future post as well...

//

donged for a post yet made....interesting

234 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:27:47pm

re: #216 albusteve

well that was unexpected...I've been mauled for posting that...cheers

Steve, I try very hard to be consistent in my understanding of history. There is little doubt in my mind that the Native Americans were subjected to a genocide. I am not one to whitewash facts - even painful ones.

However, in general, General Sherman's quote is correct. You do not win wars by sending your enemies flowers. Half efforts that prolong the engagement almost always lead to greater death and destruction in the long run.

235 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #227 Stanley Sea

Cripes, where is that from?

Sounds brilliant :D

236 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

BP is largely responsible for the cleanup. By trying to prevent their workers from taking icky pictures, they're attempting to control the message.

A failed, futile coverup is still a coverup. Just ask the ghost of Richard Nixon.

Fuck you. I've told you that you won't have me to kick around any more.

237 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:28:09pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. It just annoys me that so many activists talk of Israel 'waging a cruel war'. They no nothing of what a cruel campaign really means.

the cruelest thing they ever did was to withdraw from Gaza...

238 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:28:26pm

re: #232 windsagio

Not only Israel, not by half. People have made the same complaints on behalf of the US in just about every war/invasion since Vietnam (ok probalby not Grenada).

The problem with your idea is still that, in the situation of an insurgency war, if you're not really careful, you can make the situation worse. You can err too far on either side, and its a tough balance to get it right.


You cannot ever get it "right", there will be innocent victims, The idea is to end up with a situation that is better than the one that existed beforehand.

239 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:28:44pm

re: #230 ralphieboy

Haha thats the fun of blogging, in a nutshell :D

240 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:29:12pm

re: #47 freetoken

Quoting Bagua who was quoting someone... The poison is in the dose.

Oil is a naturally occurring fossil, a relic of dead micro-organisms of ages past. The amazing thing is the number of people who deny this (all YEC, for example.)

Anyway, there are lots of oil spills of much smaller scale all over the world. It's a shame but usually doesn't cause great damage.

It's actually homeopathic.

241 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:29:53pm

re: #236 ryannon

Fuck you. I've told you that you won't have me to kick around any more.

Checkers!
oh Checkers!
where are you?

242 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:11pm

re: #239 windsagio

Haha thats the fun of blogging, in a nutshell :D

Really, merely trolling is only for the uninspired...

243 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:12pm

beer run!

244 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:20pm

re: #230 ralphieboy

Rome pulled that trick off with Carthage, razing the city to the ground, killing all the men and selling the women and children into slavery.

But that was a different era of humanity, and Israel does not occupy the military or political position that Rome did.

I just started off comparing the situation with the supply ships to Gaza with the attempt to send supplies to Fort Sumter. And said that I did not want to stretch the analogy too far. It has already ripped and is gushing ugly like oil from a ruptured sea well...

I understand your point and its not a bad one. The problem it founders on is that it reverses some key roles. Israel is better identified with Abraham Lincoln, for example. Although, given that he had produced both successes and failures, I could see Ehud Barak as P.G.T. Beauregard.

245 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:40pm

re: #238 ralphieboy

You can get it closer or further from the optimum. There will always be innocent deaths, but you wanna take reasonable steps to mitigate that kind of damage. "Hearts and minds" isn't a canard.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:42pm

re: #227 Stanley Sea

I'm still parsing the sermon that entailed a wig form that was crushed at the depth of the Titanic.

I don't remember what in the hell he was talking about... I couldn't take my eyes off the damn head!

247 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:30:43pm

re: #237 brookly red

the cruelest thing they ever did was to withdraw from Gaza...

and the most stupid, as of this last dustup

248 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:31:11pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. It just annoys me that so many activists talk of Israel 'waging a cruel war'. They know nothing of what a cruel campaign really means.

PIMF

249 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:31:18pm

re: #235 windsagio

re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At church once, the pastor pulled out one of those Styrofoam wig heads that had been taken down to the depth where the Titanic sank. The piece of styrofoam was smushed down to about the size of a lemon, recovered to about the size of an orange.

That's a lot of.. this...

250 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:31:52pm

Just checked the livecam from CNN...they harnessed the damaged cutter and are hoisting it to the surface. Pretty amazing strap work for two robots a mile under water.

251 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:32:13pm

re: #249 Stanley Sea

Lol thanks; How'd I miss that?

252 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:32:24pm

re: #245 windsagio

You can get it closer or further from the optimum. There will always be innocent deaths, but you wanna take reasonable steps to mitigate that kind of damage. "Hearts and minds" isn't a canard.

does this tripe somehow apply to events in Gaza?

253 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:32:39pm

re: #232 windsagio

Not only Israel, not by half. People have made the same complaints on behalf of the US in just about every war/invasion since Vietnam (ok probalby not Grenada).

The problem with your idea is still that, in the situation of an insurgency war, if you're not really careful, you can make the situation worse. You can err too far on either side, and its a tough balance to get it right.

I agree that it is a tough balance to get right. Therefore let's look at what the current half military efforts have accomplished.

1. 40 years of protracted insurgency claiming thousands of lives and a perpetual hit to the economy of Israel.

2. An even more armed and dug in implacable enemy, that will and does target civilians indiscriminately, to the north with strike capability over Israel. They were only emboldened by not being wiped out. The same goes for the Gaza incursion a few years ago.

3. An ever downward trend in public opinion. By not fighting hard and having done and by attempting top be the lenient cops, the Israelis themselves have engendered legitimacy for the propaganda against them. Just as weather is not climate, soldiers are not police.

254 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:33:02pm

re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't remember what in the hell he was talking about... I couldn't take my eyes off the damn head!

My daughter had a life-size batheable baby doll with a hollow, watertight rubber head, we took it on an airplane and its head collapsed, much to her distress...

255 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:33:13pm

re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't remember what in the hell he was talking about... I couldn't take my eyes off the damn head!

I tell you, I am still laughing.

256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:33:16pm

re: #235 windsagio

You talking about Airplane?

257 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:33:29pm

re: #252 albusteve

Because they have to protect their citizens safety (Israel that is) while trying not to strengthen Hamas' position.

Its harder 'cuz the deck is so stacked against 'em.

258 AK-47%  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:34:48pm

re: #257 windsagio

Because they have to protect their citizens safety (Israel that is) while trying not to strengthen Hamas' position.

Its harder 'cuz the deck is so stacked against 'em.

It#s even more difficult because there are so many parties, both within and outside the Middle East who have little interest in a peaceful resolution.

259 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:36:01pm

re: #257 windsagio

Because they have to protect their citizens safety (Israel that is) while trying not to strengthen Hamas' position.

Its harder 'cuz the deck is so stacked against 'em.

you don't make any sense with your clipped delivery and half sentences....typically when I think I get you, you are merely stating the obvious

260 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:36:30pm

re: #253 LudwigVanQuixote

They were only emboldened by not being wiped out.

Pretty strong language, man.

Seems to me the real problem is that theres this seesaw in Israel between people who want to annihilate/expel the Palistinians (and often do crap to make things worse) and the people that want to pursue a settled peace. I'll certainly agree that waffling on the matter doesn't help one bit.

261 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:37:43pm

re: #260 windsagio

pimf: "The real problem" should be "A large part of the problem".

No need for overly strong language on my part either >>

262 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:38:07pm

Speaking of doing the same stupid shit and expecting a different result:

House Republicans are returning to their promise of repealing the Democrats' health care reform law with a retread of their own alternative plan that a Congressional Budget Office analysis last year determined would provide coverage for next to no one. Just in time for the midterm elections, the Republicans introduced legislation to scrap "Obama care" -- even parts that voters like -- and sub in their own version.


--from GOS

Related link:
[Link: www.politico.com...]

263 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:38:10pm

re: #258 ralphieboy

It#s even more difficult because there are so many parties, both within and outside the Middle East who have little interest in a peaceful resolution.

aside from Israel, who really wants peace?....what happens to ALL THAT MONEY?....ME Strife, Inc....fat cats, feasting on someone else's grief

264 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:39:58pm

re: #240 ryannon

It's actually homeopathic.

I would love to comment on homeopathy.

If you look at teh dilutions that are standard in homeopathic "medicine" you can quickly calculate that there is no medicine in the medicine. There are a finite number of molecules in any sample, if you mix a 1/1000 solution, take a tenth of that and mix into DI water and repeat that process 50 times - which is exactly what the homeopaths do, you will find that it almost statistically impossible for there to be anything bu water left in the diluted samples.

There were on order 10 to the 20 molecules of medicine in the original pure sample and you are diluting by 10 to the 50 times. Molecules do not divide in this process.

Homeopathy is pure bunk. You will here anecdotal accounts of people swearing by it. The reason that you hear such things is that placebos do have an effect.

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:40:03pm

re: #262 darthstar

Laughable. They know it won't pass, but they'll get idiots to believe it will, and vote for 'em.

266 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:40:30pm

Yes
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

267 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:40:32pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

I have this image of WUB waiting in the wings waiting for something to come up that isn't Israel-related, so he can post >>

268 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:41:01pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

Laughable. They know it won't pass, but they'll get idiots to believe it will, and vote for 'em.

"I voted for it, before I voted against it"
nothing is impossible

269 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:41:08pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

Its dangerous bunk in the same way faith-healing is. (To go one step farther)

270 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:41:09pm

re: #260 windsagio

Pretty strong language, man.

Seems to me the real problem is that theres this seesaw in Israel between people who want to annihilate/expel the Palistinians (and often do crap to make things worse) and the people that want to pursue a settled peace. I'll certainly agree that waffling on the matter doesn't help one bit.

No one wants to annihilate the Palestinians. Annihilation of Hamas or the Hezzies is a different matter. Please be more careful in your language.

271 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:41:46pm

re: #270 LudwigVanQuixote

What language did I put in that was unclear tho? (Honestly confused)

272 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:42:10pm

Gotta eat, Quiznos or Papa Murpheys?

273 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:42:42pm

re: #271 windsagio

What language did I put in that was unclear tho? (Honestly confused)

When you said:

that theres this seesaw in Israel between people who want to annihilate/expel the Palistinians

You are wrong.

274 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #272 windsagio

Gotta eat, Quiznos or Papa Murpheys?

Toasty

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:42:44pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

Argh, quackery. :( One of my biggest hot-buttons. And why I hate Orrin Hatch, since he basically represents the quack supplement industry. Defending fucking ephedra. Poison.

276 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:08pm

re: #272 windsagio

Gotta eat, Quiznos or Papa Murpheys?

Umm how about a nice something that isn't 75% fat?

277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:16pm

re: #267 windsagio

I have this image of WUB waiting in the wings waiting for something to come up that isn't Israel-related, so he can post >>

Dietary supplements will do it!

278 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:21pm

re: #260 windsagio

Pretty strong language, man.

Seems to me the real problem is that theres this seesaw in Israel between people who want to annihilate/expel the Palistinians (and often do crap to make things worse) and the people that want to pursue a settled peace. I'll certainly agree that waffling on the matter doesn't help one bit.

The "real problem" is that Hamas is unwilling to coexist with Israel. They want to destroy Israel and kill the Jews.
That's the real problem, and we can all stand on our heads from now to eternity trying to figure out what Israel is doing wrong, but it is largely an exercise in futility unless and until the Pali leadership recognizes Israel's right to exist.
Why do you and so many people refuse to see the simple truth?

279 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:28pm

re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At church once, the pastor pulled out one of those Styrofoam wig heads that had been taken down to the depth where the Titanic sank. The piece of styrofoam was smushed down to about the size of a lemon, recovered to about the size of an orange.

Interesting. Is that the Church of the Sub-Genius?

280 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:43:50pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

Laughable. They know it won't pass, but they'll get idiots to believe it will, and vote for 'em.

Well, their drill, baby, drill argument went into the shitter, people aren't afraid of the gays anymore, and abortion's about as threadbare as Nazi references these days...so it's back to socialism (which, a poll a few months ago found wasn't nearly as frightening a word to people under 45 as the GOP would hope).

281 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:44:06pm

I'm a domestic policy burd. War and foreign policy quarterbacking, just not something I weigh in on on blogs.

282 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:44:23pm

re: #278 Spare O'Lake

The "real problem" is that Hamas is unwilling to coexist with Israel. They want to destroy Israel and kill the Jews.
That's the real problem, and we can all stand on our heads from now to eternity trying to figure out what Israel is doing wrong, but it is largely an exercise in futility unless and until the Pali leadership recognizes Israel's right to exist.
Why do you and so many people refuse to see the simple truth?

because they have been systematically brainwashed....like white rats

283 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:44:32pm

re: #279 ryannon

Interesting. Is that the Church of the Sub-Genius?

Gimme Slack man! Hail Eris, Hell yes!

284 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:44:59pm

re: #273 LudwigVanQuixote

No I'm really not wrong.

There are certainly extremist factions that want EXACTLY what I'm saying. You know, people like Yigal Amir.

285 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:45:16pm

re: #258 ralphieboy

It#s even more difficult because there are so many parties, both within and outside the Middle East who have little interest in a peaceful resolution.

And that is the real core of the issue.

286 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:45:20pm

re: #276 LudwigVanQuixote

Too lazy to make my own food.

287 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:46:40pm

re: #280 darthstar

Well, their drill, baby, drill argument went into the shitter, people aren't afraid of the gays anymore, and abortion's about as threadbare as Nazi references these days...so it's back to socialism (which, a poll a few months ago found wasn't nearly as frightening a word to people under 45 as the GOP would hope).

And Michele Bachmann is suddenly a big government proponent, going WHERE WAS THE BIG FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?!?!?! But only when it comes to Obama and the oil spill. YEAH!

Madness, non-euclidean horrors, Escher-esque stairways that lead into wormholes. That's the GOP right now. :D

"There are no doors here, Jon. Only vengeful shadows."

288 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:46:56pm

re: #278 Spare O'Lake

Never said that wasn't a neccessity for peace :p

Its perfectly possible to look at what they're doing that's horrible, and also acknowledge that there's 2 sides of the coin.

289 dugmartsch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:47:12pm

OT repost from earlier dead thread was hoping for a link:

So why wasn't the ship disabled and then towed to shore? Was it too big for towing? I know the Israelis ruled this out as a solution to the problem on the grounds that it could cause a humanitarian crisis, but I'm wondering if that was a bad decision?

290 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:47:39pm

re: #281 WindUpBird

OUR OPINIONS MATTER OVER THERE DAMMIT@!

291 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:48:51pm

re: #290 windsagio

hahah exactly. Back to work for me. Wake me when a keyword search of "flotilla" produces no results. :D

292 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:49:22pm

re: #291 WindUpBird


Don't look at me, I'm getting dressed to go get some junkfood >

293 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:49:42pm

re: #284 windsagio

No I'm really not wrong.

There are certainly extremist factions that want EXACTLY what I'm saying. You know, people like Yigal Amir.

OK, fine. Yigal Amir represents the small kook faction of Israel. Perhaps as much as 1/100000 Israelis are as virulent as him and the average Israeli despises such folks.

On the other hand, perhaps as many as 50% of the Palestinians and 100% of their elected government in Gaza wants all Jews murdered. There is no equivalence to be made here.

It is exactly the same logical fallacy that gets made by certain right wing Americans when they point out some creepy anti-bush poster from a delusional at a protest and use that as a defense for the rampant racism seeping through the current American right, or the guns at the tea parties or the very horrible things said by national political voices like Rush or Beck or Palin.

294 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:49:58pm

re: #272 windsagio

Gotta eat, Quiznos or Papa Murpheys?

dear lord what is a Papa Murpheys if it's any thing like Papa Johns oh the horror!

295 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:50:18pm

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

The only good news abut the Gaza incident is that as more and more footage - including security cam footage from the ships themselves is coming out, it is becoming harder and harder for the left to have an outrageous outrage.

BBC has relatively few words on the topic today. I am sure that they are disappointed.

CNN reporters, while IDF video is streaming before their very eyes:

"Now the Israelis are saying of course that they were attacked, but the protesters are saying, well, that it was a bit of a one-sided fight.... How fair a fight is this, that the Israelis are saying that they were attacked, but it's far from certain what they were attacked with at the moment."

296 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:50:28pm

re: #285 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is the real core of the issue.

The main threat to Israel is the combined wealth and power of all the Muslim nations in the Middle East.

That threat will not recede until one of two things happen:

1. A reformation of the mainstream Muslim faith to allow more secular societies

2. A decrease in the wealth and power of those nations.

But we, the United States, have not done much to denude the Muslim nations of power. They gain wealth and power mainly through the sale of oil. We have not done enough, and are not doing enough, to move away from dependency on oil.

No action Israel could take would be as effective as the US championing a move away from oil.

297 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:50:50pm

re: #78 darthstar

Blackwater.

OH DAMN COMMENT OF THE DAY :D

298 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:51:19pm

re: #295 Alouette

CNN reporters, while IDF video is streaming before their very eyes:

"Now the Israelis are saying of course that they were attacked, but the protesters are saying, well, that it was a bit of a one-sided fight... How fair a fight is this, that the Israelis are saying that they were attacked, but it's far from certain what they were attacked with at the moment."

CNN is just a joke.

299 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:51:55pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

The problem is that the Israeli far right is just powerful enough that they occasionally get some stupid/harmful legislation or activity going. They're substantially stronger than the left fringe, to what I've heard about tea-party level of power, if the teaparty had been around a while.

300 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:51:55pm

re: #284 windsagio

No I'm really not wrong.

There are certainly extremist factions that want EXACTLY what I'm saying. You know, people like Yigal Amir.

Here's the difference, Einstein. Yigal Amir is in prison for the rest of his natural life, while the equivalent of Palestinians are running Gaza, and getting public streets and parks named after them in the Palestinian Authority.

301 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:52:06pm

re: #287 WindUpBird

And Michele Bachmann is suddenly a big government proponent, going WHERE WAS THE BIG FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?!?!?! But only when it comes to Obama and the oil spill. YEAH!

Madness, non-euclidean horrors, Escher-esque stairways that lead into wormholes. That's the GOP right now. :D

"There are no doors here, Jon. Only vengeful shadows."

Bachmann...one of the few people on the planet who can make Orly Taitz look sane by comparison.

302 dugmartsch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:52:28pm

Also OT, but this is too awesome from Fred Kaplan

"But this was an elite Israeli team, presumably trained to deal with organized military foes armed with grenades, machine guns, and worse."

By empathic mind control waves? Oh no, by shooting them dead before they get shot themselves. Well if that's the measuring stick, they did a great job, right?

They should have know the peace convoy was going to try to kill them? Huh? Maybe they should have been prepared for a fistfight or two, and they seem to have been, but not for an organized fighting force.

Blaming Israel for this incident requires such a tortured logic.

303 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #294 brookly red

Its cook-your-own/fresh ingredients kinda place.

In PDX good pizza is unreasonably expensive. This is substantially better than Pizza Hut tho'.

304 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:52:38pm

re: #295 Alouette

CNN reporters, while IDF video is streaming before their very eyes:

"Now the Israelis are saying of course that they were attacked, but the protesters are saying, well, that it was a bit of a one-sided fight... How fair a fight is this, that the Israelis are saying that they were attacked, but it's far from certain what they were attacked with at the moment."

hint...TV sucks

305 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:53:17pm

re: #300 Alouette

Not sure why I brought this up, because I"m flying directly into people's prejudices.

With that in mind, I'm gonna go get some food, and restart when I get back :D

307 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:53:30pm

re: #288 windsagio

Never said that wasn't a neccessity for peace :p

Its perfectly possible to look at what they're doing that's horrible, and also acknowledge that there's 2 sides of the coin.

OK, so if I understand you correctly you agree that the blockade is necessary, that Israel has the right to defend its citizens, that the Palis are led by terrorists and that there cannot be peace until the Palis recognize Israel's right to exist. Yet you want to sit here and talk about all the horrible things that Israel is doing and about all the terrible people there are in Israel.
Is that about right?

308 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:53:31pm

re: #304 albusteve

hint...TV sucks

But...but...but...it's CNN!

/my mother

309 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:53:40pm

re: #303 windsagio

Its cook-your-own/fresh ingredients kinda place.

In PDX good pizza is unreasonably expensive. This is substantially better than Pizza Hut tho'.

but you said you were too lazy to cook your own?

310 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:53:40pm

re: #305 windsagio

Not sure why I brought this up, because I"m flying directly into people's prejudices.

With that in mind, I'm gonna go get some food, and restart when I get back :D

haha you know you love it

311 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:12pm

re: #309 brookly red

"Heat" not "Prepare"

And I really have to leave, people are gonna start yelling in a second, I think :P

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:21pm

re: #272 windsagio

mmm ... toasty.

313 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:22pm

re: #310 WindUpBird

Not like this I don't :p

/seriously POOF!

314 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:39pm

re: #309 brookly red

but you said you were too lazy to cook your own?

Papa Murphys basically sells you an uncooked pizza. think freshly made, minus the final step. You take it home, stick it in the oven, it comes out, it kicks ass. What he means is he's not going to prepare a meal from scratch.

315 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:47pm

re: #295 Alouette

CNN reporters, while IDF video is streaming before their very eyes:

"Now the Israelis are saying of course that they were attacked, but the protesters are saying, well, that it was a bit of a one-sided fight... How fair a fight is this, that the Israelis are saying that they were attacked, but it's far from certain what they were attacked with at the moment."

And here we see the left's version of not being able to process evidence that is right in front of them and the ability to call an Elephant a turnip with a straight face.

Once you go too far left or far right, the ability to process facts diminishes to the point of dangerous absurdity. After all, people with narratives, defend narratives, not truths.

This is also the sort of thing that makes me deeply grateful for my cuddly puppies and the love of Miss S. Seeing things like you just posted would surely make me punch walls, if not for the reminder f good things in life.

316 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #307 Spare O'Lake

OK, so if I understand you correctly you agree that the blockade is necessary, that Israel has the right to defend its citizens, that the Palis are led by terrorists and that there cannot be peace until the Palis recognize Israel's right to exist. Yet you want to sit here and talk about all the horrible things that Israel is doing and about all the terrible people there are in Israel.
Is that about right?

it's all blabola...doesn't go anywhere

317 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:55:10pm

re: #289 dugmartsch

OT repost from earlier dead thread was hoping for a link:

So why wasn't the ship disabled and then towed to shore? Was it too big for towing? I know the Israelis ruled this out as a solution to the problem on the grounds that it could cause a humanitarian crisis, but I'm wondering if that was a bad decision?

I got no link for you, but it was covered in the thread that you called dead. The comments are still alive and waiting there for you to read them. [Short version: boats could have sunk when disabling was attempted, could have blown up if towed to port.]

318 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:55:25pm

re: #314 WindUpBird

Papa Murphys basically sells you an uncooked pizza. think freshly made, minus the final step. You take it home, stick it in the oven, it comes out, it kicks ass. What he means is he's not going to prepare a meal from scratch.

OK, sounds pretty good actually...

319 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:56:28pm

Have a good evening, folks. See you tomorrow, hopefully.

320 dugmartsch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:56:45pm

re: #317 wrenchwench

I got no link for you, but it was covered in the thread that you called dead. The comments are still alive and waiting there for you to read them. [Short version: boats could have sunk when disabling was attempted, could have blown up if towed to port.]

Thanks I'll go check it out.

321 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:57:08pm

Immigration humor

322 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:57:28pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Misunderstanding this fact is the greatest error of the Israelis and whiny leftists everywhere.

Had this war been fought to win decades ago, it would have been won.

A few decades ago the Israelis still had Voltron on their side. Let me explain, Voltron is a metaphor for the IDF's aura of invincibility. The scale of invincibility is measured in mechanical robotic lions. As I am the pioneering researcher of the study of metaphorical invincibility, I get to define the scale, the scale is thus, just fucking go with it.

The method of this engagement (at night, via helicopter, bungled) and the last war in Lebanon have begun a slow erosion of the IDF's aura of invincibility. They can ill afford any loss of this, their greatest asset, that they spent half a century building up. As I explained yesterday, they haven't lost these actions, but winning has never been enough. The IDF has always had to make their enemies confront the futility of even trying to engage them directly. That sense of futility is at stake. I'm not sure they can still form Voltron, that's a problem.

P.S. I still like my electromagnetic tugboat idea for blockade running interdiction. Just need to fit it with a few teeth that can slice through metal at the water-line. Controlling the narrative is one of the most important parts in any conflict strategy.

323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:57:47pm

re: #279 ryannon

Interesting. Is that the Church of the Sub-Genius?

I brought it up as an illustration of the immense pressure. At five thousand feet below the surface... gets fairly hard to maneuver. Titanic's about 13feet down... but still, at five...

Well, your ears don't actually pop...

324 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:58:20pm

BP unveils new 'image recovery' ad campaign:

Youtube Video

/

325 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:58:25pm

re: #318 brookly red

OK, sounds pretty good actually...

just another gadget....I buy world class pizza down the road at Mario's...the best NY pizza in the city...family owned, from.......Brooklyn, where else!

326 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:58:52pm

re: #299 windsagio

The problem is that the Israeli far right is just powerful enough that they occasionally get some stupid/harmful legislation or activity going. They're substantially stronger than the left fringe, to what I've heard about tea-party level of power, if the teaparty had been around a while.

That is shifting the goal posts in a very disappointing way.

Your first example was a wingnut who represents almost no -one. Now you are tarring and feathering the entire Israeli right.

The Isreali right - if you mean mainstream right like Likud, is nothing at all like the teapartiers or for that matter the current GOP crop in terms of economic policy or political theories. Honestly, they would be pretty centrist by American standards and Labor would be more like the liberal Dems on most issues.

Also, if you mean the Israeli right, a much larger group with much greater influence are the various religious parties. Their focus is something entirely different and there really is no American parallel to them at all.

327 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 2:59:16pm

re: #314 WindUpBird

"I have a friend who said, I like to take a pop tart, toast it, break it up and pour milk over and eat it. I said, 'Well, fuck! I may as well cook!'"
-Paula Poundstone

328 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:00:36pm

re: #327 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"I have a friend who said, I like to take a pop tart, toast it, break it up and pour milk over and eat it. I said, 'Well, fuck! I may as well cook!'"
-Paula Poundstone

another Flintstones gig?

329 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:00:42pm

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I brought it up as an illustration of the immense pressure. At five thousand feet below the surface... gets fairly hard to maneuver. Titanic's about 13feet down... but still, at five...

Well, your ears don't actually pop...

Gotcha.

330 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:03:05pm

re: #325 albusteve

just another gadget...I buy world class pizza down the road at Mario's...the best NY pizza in the city...family owned, from...Brooklyn, where else!

Ooooh, do they make a "grandpas" pie???

331 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:03:13pm

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I brought it up as an illustration of the immense pressure. At five thousand feet below the surface... gets fairly hard to maneuver. Titanic's about 13feet down... but still, at five...

Well, your ears don't actually pop...

But what I still want to know is, why did your pastor bring it up?

332 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:04:43pm

And with a Styrofoam head?

333 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:05:13pm

re: #316 albusteve

it's all blabola...doesn't go anywhere

I am very close to giving up on him, but there's something that makes me keep trying. Probably a severe case of masochism.

334 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:05:38pm

In church

335 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:05:51pm

re: #330 brookly red

Ooooh, do they make a "grandpas" pie???

no...the menu is right in front of me...these cats are just terrific, mom and pop have been here 40yrs...Momma went back to Brooklyn to birth each of her four boys...dig that....I love these folks and they treat me like a king...all the tourists that come to visit me go to Mario's and are blown away by the food

336 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:06:52pm

re: #276 LudwigVanQuixote

Umm how about a nice something that isn't 75% fat?

Good evening Ludwig! I love healthy food!
Hope today finds you well...We need to do some math tonight..Somebody thinks a suggestion to inflate a tire type device at 5000 feet is a good idea...
Maybe with 10k psi in a huge titanium pipe to inflate a tire?
I'm thinking it's not a good idea...
People don't get pressure equalizations at great depths... Why would a Billion Dollar Submarine completely implode at 5k feet of pressure and yet I could drop a ring to 20000 feet in a deep water trench and it would be in perfect shape in the deepest ocean.. Equal pressure on all sides.. Some some fucking genius PH.d thinks you could send a tire down and pump it up with air and stop the leak... And the NY Post has got her on the front page. Let's do the math.....And we should work this out for the heck of it... How much pressure is required.. This requires a sweet spot where you don't send so much air pressure that it blows out our 1/2 Billion Dollar Russian supplied pure Titanium mile long pipe...And not so little pressure that you just don't implode...So what are the numbers? We'll have to work on it.
But my favorite part of this whole genius idea... After all that..
What kind of tire are you going to inflate? Goodyear? Firestone? Bridgestone?
When you think about it...It's really funny...This is a freaking PH.d..
It's hilarious

337 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:06:57pm

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Branson has a Titanic "museum". Ballard said he very much regretted not claiming the Titanic site when he found it. He never thought people would bring up artifacts from a graveyard.
I've not been to the Titanic attraction in Branson. I wonder if ghostly howls can be heard there at night.

338 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:07:05pm

re: #335 albusteve

no...the menu is right in front of me...these cats are just terrific, mom and pop have been here 40yrs...Momma went back to Brooklyn to birth each of her four boys...dig that...I love these folks and they treat me like a king...all the tourists that come to visit me go to Mario's and are blown away by the food

ask them to make one for you... they will look at you funny and smile.

339 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:07:10pm

I went to the dentist today. I now have rear mandible teeth. I am eating corn nuts after a 10 year absence. I just wanted to say it.

340 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:07:30pm

re: #322 goddamnedfrank

A few decades ago the Israelis still had Voltron on their side. Let me explain, Voltron is a metaphor for the IDF's aura of invincibility. The scale of invincibility is measured in mechanical robotic lions. As I am the pioneering researcher of the study of metaphorical invincibility, I get to define the scale, the scale is thus, just fucking go with it.

The method of this engagement (at night, via helicopter, bungled) and the last war in Lebanon have begun a slow erosion of the IDF's aura of invincibility. They can ill afford any loss of this, their greatest asset, that they spent half a century building up. As I explained yesterday, they haven't lost these actions, but winning has never been enough. The IDF has always had to make their enemies confront the futility of even trying to engage them directly. That sense of futility is at stake. I'm not sure they can still form Voltron, that's a problem.

P.S. I still like my electromagnetic tugboat idea for blockade running interdiction. Just need to fit it with a few teeth that can slice through metal at the water-line. Controlling the narrative is one of the most important parts in any conflict strategy.

Ohh yes, I saw that post late last night about the tugboat. Before I get to that though, I have to say, I agree with your Voltron metaphor. You have a very good point. If you want to really make it a Jewish metaphor though, simply point that Amalek knew they could not win, but they also knew that if they could make Jews bleed, they would embolden others to try.

As to the tugboat, generating the kind of field you are talking about would be rather difficult and I would very much *not* want to deal with salt sprays and the sort of power outputs that would be needed. Worse though is the fact that if you turn on a field that strong, you will automatically slam your tug into the other ship. If you are deploying something like one of those big magnets that picks up cars, I then that would slam into the hull of the other ship once it got close enough and likely breach the hull.

Honestly much cheaper and more effective to fire a five inch shell amidships if you want to sink them.

If you want to tow them, much more effective to simply grapple the other ship. You also frankly only would want to do any towing after taking out the engines or screws of the other vessel. The last thing you want is a tug of war at sea.

341 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:08:06pm

re: #339 EdDantes

I went to the dentist today. I now have rear mandible teeth. I am eating corn nuts after a 10 year absence. I just wanted to say it.

Stop eating the corn nuts if you want to keep your new teeth!

342 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:09:07pm

re: #339 EdDantes

I went to the dentist today. I now have rear mandible teeth. I am eating corn nuts after a 10 year absence. I just wanted to say it.

Was it easy to negotiate a second mortgage on the house?

343 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:09:21pm

re: #338 brookly red

ask them to make one for you... they will look at you funny and smile.

I will, maybe in a bit tonight

344 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:00pm

re: #341 prairiefire

I cannot stop eating corn nuts (registered trademark). I will buy more teeth if necessary. :)

345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:19pm

re: #331 ryannon

But what I still want to know is, why did your pastor bring it up?

Dunno. Like I said, I wasn't paying attention. Was looking at the head. I'm pretty A.D... hey, look! Shiny!

346 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:24pm

re: #343 albusteve

I will, maybe in a bit tonight

you will never be the same :)

347 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:33pm

Apologies if this has already been posted:

Alabama candidate denounces 'lie' that he believes in evolution


The outraged pushback from candidate Bradley Byrne:

• As a Christian and as a public servant, I have never wavered in my belief that this world and everything in it is a masterpiece created by the hands of God. As a member of the Alabama Board of Education, the record clearly shows that I fought to ensure the teaching of creationism in our school textbooks. Those who attack me have distorted, twisted and misrepresented my comments and are spewing utter lies to the people of this state.

Funny stuff. Video at link.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

348 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:37pm

re: #324 Jimmah

BP unveils new 'image recovery' ad campaign:


[Video]/

I've goota run, but the one thing I want to ask folks to do is to hope that BP survives this. Assholes they may be, but they pay for my parent's health care, and that's important. For that reason, if none other, I do not wish them failure.

349 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:10:49pm

re: #344 EdDantes

I cannot stop eating corn nuts (registered trademark). I will buy more teeth if necessary. :)

I recommend that you try a henway.

350 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:11:16pm

re: #345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dunno. Like I said, I wasn't paying attention. Was looking at the head. I'm pretty A.D... hey, look! Shiny!

Are you sure you were in church?

Was the circus in town?

351 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:11:34pm

Wingnuts are idiots, exhibit #63129:

I ventured into the Belly of the Beast and took the liberty of posting Kilgore's link about the legality of the Israeli blockade at Free Republic. I thought that avowed supporters of Israel would be happy to have a sledgehammer refutation for the media-left's constant lies about "international waters" and such.
No such luck. The story was generally ignored and what few reactions I've gotten have been hostile, as though the issue is not even worth discussing.

352 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:11:43pm

re: #350 ryannon

Are you sure you were in church?

Was the circus in town?

is there a difference?

353 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:12:24pm

re: #349 Spare O'Lake

I recommend that you try a henway.

What's a henway? (nudge nudge, wink wink)

354 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:12:37pm

re: #351 Shiplord Kirel

Wingnuts are idiots, exhibit #63129:

I ventured into the Belly of the Beast and took the liberty of posting Kilgore's link about the legality of the Israeli blockade at Free Republic. I thought that avowed supporters of Israel would be happy to have a sledgehammer refutation for the media-left's constant lies about "international waters" and such.
No such luck. The story was generally ignored and what few reactions I've gotten have been hostile, as though the issue is not even worth discussing.

and now you stink for all your trouble

355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:12:41pm

re: #352 albusteve

Yes. For me there's a huge difference.

At the circus they have elephants.

At church, I just have Mrs. Akers.

356 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:13:42pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yes. For me there's a huge difference.

At the circus they have elephants.

At church, I just have Mrs. Akers.

but Mrs Akres has a beard, correct?

357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:14:24pm

re: #356 albusteve

I haven't seen it. Ahem.

(she's large)

358 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:14:33pm

re: #353 EdDantes

What's a henway? (nudge nudge, wink wink)

Damn, I hate it when people know that joke. I think the last time it worked for me was in around 1972.

359 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:14:44pm

Well, there goes the thread....

360 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:15:15pm

re: #358 Spare O'Lake

Damn, I hate it when people know that joke. I think the last time it worked for me was in around 1972.

Me too!

361 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:15:24pm

re: #359 ryannon

Well, there goes the thread...

back
back
back
DING DONG!

362 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:15:50pm

re: #354 albusteve

and now you stink for all your trouble

They actually remind me of the Second Amendment idiots who will not carry on a rational discussion of gun control because they think their position is unassailable and obvious to all, so there.
Then they wonder why they are steadily losing ground.

363 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:16:20pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

I've goota run, but the one thing I want to ask folks to do is to hope that BP survives this. Assholes they may be, but they pay for my parent's health care, and that's important. For that reason, if none other, I do not wish them failure.

Cheers DF, and understood. Hope you are feeling better btw.

364 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:17:02pm

re: #362 Shiplord Kirel

Sheesh. The response that law is overrated-- does that person realize he's basically an anarchist?

365 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:17:09pm

re: #351 Shiplord Kirel

Wingnuts are idiots, exhibit #63129:

I ventured into the Belly of the Beast and took the liberty of posting Kilgore's link about the legality of the Israeli blockade at Free Republic. I thought that avowed supporters of Israel would be happy to have a sledgehammer refutation for the media-left's constant lies about "international waters" and such.
No such luck. The story was generally ignored and what few reactions I've gotten have been hostile, as though the issue is not even worth discussing.

I don't post at FR anymore, but I have a "ping list" that I used to notify FReepers whenever I wanted to get their attention to an article. Send me an email (my nic is blue) and I'll send you the ping list in a text file.

366 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:17:16pm

re: #362 Shiplord Kirel

They actually remind me of the Second Amendment idiots who will not carry on a rational discussion of gun control because they think their position is unassailable and obvious to all, so there.
Then they wonder why they are steadily losing ground.

actually I think they are gaining ground if you count "shall issue" states.

367 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:17:42pm

re: #359 ryannon

Well, there goes the thread...

Back on thread: Of course BP is downplaying this!

368 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:18:54pm

re: #366 brookly red

actually I think they are gaining ground if you count "shall issue" states.

I know a number of gun crazies who think concealed carry laws are illegitimate because the gummint has no right to restrict their carrying of firearms in the first place.

369 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:19:05pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Good evening Ludwig! I love healthy food!
Hope today finds you well...We need to do some math tonight..Somebody thinks a suggestion to inflate a tire type device at 5000 feet is a good idea...
Maybe with 10k psi in a huge titanium pipe to inflate a tire?
I'm thinking it's not a good idea...
People don't get pressure equalizations at great depths... Why would a Billion Dollar Submarine completely implode at 5k feet of pressure and yet I could drop a ring to 20000 feet in a deep water trench and it would be in perfect shape in the deepest ocean.. Equal pressure on all sides.. Some some fucking genius PH.d thinks you could send a tire down and pump it up with air and stop the leak... And the NY Post has got her on the front page. Let's do the math...And we should work this out for the heck of it... How much pressure is required.. This requires a sweet spot where you don't send so much air pressure that it blows out our 1/2 Billion Dollar Russian supplied pure Titanium mile long pipe...And not so little pressure that you just don't implode...So what are the numbers? We'll have to work on it.
But my favorite part of this whole genius idea... After all that..
What kind of tire are you going to inflate? Goodyear? Firestone? Bridgestone?
When you think about it...It's really funny...This is a freaking PH.d..
It's hilarious

Wow. OK to really do that sort of calculation correctly, we need to know the diameter of the pipe and the shape of the object we would be putting in.

We also need to know the nature of the pipe.

My understanding is that it is very hard to get something into the pipe because of the pressure coming out of it. so presumably you are going in from the side, with something tethered, that would then be swept up in the main flow.

I am not sure how to do that, but let's say you can somehow.

I can easily imagine getting a deflated balloon into the main upward flow in that way. I could imagine a tether holding it in place and then pumping up the balloon.

What I have a hard time imagining though is how the friction from the sides of the walls would not tear the balloon apart. I am assuming that they are not talking about a normal Goodyear here, but rather something vaguely ovoid that would expand with its major axis parallel to the flow. Do materials strong enough exist to withstand the side friction? I do not know.

The key calculation is what pressure coming up and how much different is it than the sea pressure coming down. If that gradient is not too large, then the side friction would not be too great. Without hard numbers though and knowing the properties of the material used for the tire, we really can't calculate it though.

370 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:19:30pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

I've goota run, but the one thing I want to ask folks to do is to hope that BP survives this. Assholes they may be, but they pay for my parent's health care, and that's important. For that reason, if none other, I do not wish them failure.

Don't worry, universal public health care is coming soon.
...on second thought, buy BP stock!

371 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:20:02pm

re: #368 Shiplord Kirel

I know a number of gun crazies who think concealed carry laws are illegitimate because the gummint has no right to restrict their carrying of firearms in the first place.

that is so far out there that it took me a few seconds to understand what you were saying...sheesh

372 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:21:03pm

re: #363 Jimmah

Cheers DF, and understood. Hope you are feeling better btw.

Hey mate! Been a long time! How are you and how is the lady?

373 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:21:17pm

re: #368 Shiplord Kirel

I know a number of gun crazies who think concealed carry laws are illegitimate because the gummint has no right to restrict their carrying of firearms in the first place.

I would think that to be crazy yes, but the number of concealed carry states is growing.

374 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:21:36pm

My latest LGF Page:

Answer to a "liberal" Jew.

375 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:21:54pm

I'm out of corn nuts. Crap!

376 darthstar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:22:41pm

Shit...almost 3:30 and I've got errands to run...see you all later.

377 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

My latest LGF Page:

Answer to a "liberal" Jew.

Good post Cato.

Your "liberal" friend manages to prove that we Jews are not immune from fools who are divorced from reality and will narcissisticly shoot their mouths off about things they know nothing of, in order to make cheap points in debates they do not understand.

That sort of self serving ignorance is always agitating.

378 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:25:13pm

re: #373 brookly red

I would think that to be crazy yes, but the number of concealed carry states is growing.

Well don't you know that happiness
Is a warm...yes it i-i-is,
Guu-uh-un...

379 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:26:10pm

re: #378 Spare O'Lake

Well don't you know that happiness
Is a warm...yes it i-i-is,
Guu-uh-un...

for the record I approve of concealed carry.

380 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:33:23pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey mate! Been a long time! How are you and how is the lady?

Great! We have been spending a lot of time out recently, so not much posting. I gotta say, central park is pretty awesome. Visits there and the surrounding galleries/museums are the order of the day right now.

One minor annoyance is that I've been getting bitten by mosquitoes, and the bites are itchy and kinda nasty. Is that usual?

381 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:33:31pm

re: #379 brookly red

for the record I approve of concealed carry.

For the record I have no problem with that and I love the White Album. :D

382 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:35:10pm

We were just seriously inundated with web robots originating in China. I had to block an entire IP range to get the site to respond again.

383 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:35:22pm

re: #381 Spare O'Lake

For the record I have no problem with that and I love the White Album. :D

You parents played the white album for you

384 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:35:25pm

OT:

Bibi Netanyahu's speech in response to the flotilla incident has been posted on youtube.

Excellent speech, as per usual.


Youtube Video
385 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:36:50pm

re: #381 Spare O'Lake

For the record I have no problem with that and I love the White Album. :D

it's the white album...no caps...the actual title is "The Beatles"....don't be strafin the Beatles bro

387 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:37:38pm

re: #382 Charles

We were just seriously inundated with web robots originating in China. I had to block an entire IP range to get the site to respond again.

Palestinian exiles in China? I think not.

388 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:37:52pm

Yikes!

The nuclear option again, this time from NRO

Nuke It?
It’s a little less crazy than it sounds.

It was September of 1966, and gas was gushing uncontrollably from the wells in the Bukhara province of the Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic. But the Reds, at the height of their industrial might, had a novel solution. They drilled nearly four miles into the sand and rock of the Kyzyl Kum Desert, and lowered a 30-kiloton nuclear warhead — more than half-again as large as “Little Boy,” the crude uranium bomb dropped over Hiroshima — to the depths beneath the wellhead. With the pull of a lever, a fistful of plutonium was introduced to itself under enormous pressure, setting off the chain reaction that starts with E = MC2 and ends in Kaboom! The ensuing blast collapsed the drill channel in on itself, sealing off the well.

The Soviets repeated the trick four times between 1966 and 1979, using payloads as large as 60 kilotons to choke hydrocarbon leaks. Now, as the Obama administration stares into the abyss of the Deepwater Horizon spill, and a slicker of sweet, medium crude blankets the Gulf of Mexico, slouching its way toward American beaches and wetlands, Russia’s newspaper of record is calling on the president to consider this literal “nuclear option.”

As well he should. It’s a little less crazy than it sounds. The simple fact is that the leak has confounded all conventional efforts to quell it, forcing British Petroleum and its federal overseers to resort to a series of untested, increasingly unwieldy, and heretofore unsuccessful backup plans as the American people’s impatience and rage grow at geometric rates. In the madness that is Deepwater Horizon, The Bomb may be the sanest choice.

This means that it's merely batshit crazy, rather than completely drooling bug-fuck crazy.

389 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:37:55pm

Harry's Place on the Israeli commando raid:

The commando raid: some next-day thoughts

Gene, June 1st 2010, 3:52 pm

Some next-day thoughts on the Israeli commando raid on the Turkish ship heading for Gaza.

–Anyone who can watch the videos we posted yesterday and still believe that the commandos ruthlessly massacred peaceful humanitarians is deliberately obtuse– at best. After holding fire while they were stabbed with knives and beaten with metal rods, the commandos clearly acted in self-defense. There were hundreds of people on the ship; if the Israelis’ intention was to kill as many as possible, clearly they failed miserably. By refusing Israel’s offer to transfer their aid to Gaza, the organizers made it clear that their main purpose was political and confrontational rather than humanitarian.

–Just as clearly, there were disastrous and self-defeating strategic and tactical failures on the Israeli side. Once again, the Israeli government has failed to grasp that just because they may have the right to do something doesn’t mean it’s always wise to do it. Allowing the ships to dock in Gaza, unload their cargo and be on their way– as the Israelis have done in the recent past– might have provided some minimal aid and comfort to Hamas, but nothing like the propaganda coup that yesterday’s events did. And if the Israelis believed that the commandos would meet little or no resistance on board– and it seems they did believe that– there was obviously an enormous intelligence failure.

–While protecting its security, Israel has to find creative ways of dealing with situations like this which put the public onus on its enemies and not, as almost invariably happens, on itself. (One way to do that, an Israeli journalist suggested, would have been for Israel to announce that it would allow the ships to enter Gaza if Hamas released Gilad Shalit.) Almost everything Israel does these days seems plodding and obvious and designed to make it look like the villain.

full article:

[Link: hurryupharry.org...]

390 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:38:38pm

re: #386 Ojoe

Newsmax is not credible

391 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:39:07pm

re: #389 Jimmah

I agree with almost every word of that. Yes, this was a deliberately staged debacle, but the Israelis also made some seriously bad decisions in planning it.

392 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:39:23pm

re: #380 Jimmah

Great! We have been spending a lot of time out recently, so not much posting. I gotta say, central park is pretty awesome. Visits there and the surrounding galleries/museums are the order of the day right now.

One minor annoyance is that I've been getting bitten by mosquitoes, and the bites are itchy and kinda nasty. Is that usual?

Yes it is usual that the bites are itchy and unpleasant. NY is not the worst place for mosquitoes. Down in the DC area where I am, I have seen mosquitoes carry off small dogs and children. People further south will tell you of ones that fight aircraft.

I strongly recoomend the following things.

1. Off (or another repellent) they work and are worth teh few bucks.

2. Caladryll (or however you spell it). It's a topical cream that has the same stuff in it as Benedryl.

393 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:39:43pm

re: #386 Ojoe

Get ready for big GOP gains in November, and do not be surprised at Palin as VP or POTUS in 2012.

If the right wing keeps raising expectations like that, anything other than a takeover of the house and senate are going to look like a defeat.

394 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:40:20pm

re: #385 albusteve

it's the white album...no caps...the actual title is "The Beatles"...don't be strafin the Beatles bro

Heh. If I do strafe 'em I'll be sure to do it from a fast-moving airborne platform.
BBL

395 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:41:12pm

re: #390 WindUpBird

Newsmax is not credible

No, it isn't. Not even when they're right.

I could sing you a song about one of the founders of Newsmax, who was also a silent partner in one of the companies I used to work for.

But then I would be sleeping with the fishes, and Darthstar would have one less LGF friend to call him on his bullshit.

396 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:41:22pm

re: #390 WindUpBird

Newsmax is not credible

That's being polite. I remember Dick Morris' predictions in '08 being completely off the wall.

397 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:41:23pm
–While protecting its security, Israel has to find creative ways of dealing with situations like this which put the public onus on its enemies and not, as almost invariably happens, on itself. (One way to do that, an Israeli journalist suggested, would have been for Israel to announce that it would allow the ships to enter Gaza if Hamas released Gilad Shalit.) Almost everything Israel does these days seems plodding and obvious and designed to make it look like the villain.

I am rather shocked they did not say such a thing. That is a good point and I had not thought of the capacity to link the two.

398 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:41:54pm

re: #386 Ojoe

Oh I see what you did, you made up a bunch of stuff based on one poll and then added a link that says none of the Palin stuff. Got it!


Palin as president LOL

399 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:42:10pm

re: #389 Jimmah

I don't agree with letting them dock in Gaza, especially if the info about the AQ members is accurate, but the rest echoes most of my own feelings.

400 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:43:21pm

re: #390 WindUpBird

Newsmax is not credible

I would say that there were more republicans home over the Memorial Day weekend. I am waiting for 9/15 Gallop numbers.

401 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:43:42pm

re: #399 Obdicut

I don't agree with letting them dock in Gaza, especially if the info about the AQ members is accurate, but the rest echoes most of my own feelings.

Agreed.

402 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:44:08pm

re: #396 JasonA

That's being polite. I remember Dick Morris' predictions in '08 being completely off the wall.

I can't stand that lisping, toe sucking whore monger.

403 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:44:58pm

re: #396 JasonA

That's being polite. I remember Dick Morris' predictions in '08 being completely off the wall.

Dick Morris! Oh man Dick Morris. What a yukster.

404 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:45:10pm

re: #390 WindUpBird

'Twas Gallup, just reported on Newsmax.

I'll give you my take: I don't like what the Republican Party is at the moment, but I have been out of professional work for about a year and a half, and I think that a big political shock in November (Republican sweep) might defillibrate the economy, so I'm tempted to hold my nose and vote R from some sort of desperation.

405 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:45:13pm

re: #402 prairiefire

I can't stand that lisping, toe sucking whore monger.

He certainly does not have a lisp!

406 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:45:18pm

re: #402 prairiefire

I can't stand that lisping, toe sucking whore monger.

Don't forget tax delinquent!

407 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:45:32pm

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

I am rather shocked they did not say such a thing. That is a good point and I had not thought of the capacity to link the two.

Israel did try to link the two, by asking the "humanitarians" to arrange a visit with Shalit in exchange for peacefully inspecting the cargo. Of course they could have offered to allow the boats to dock in Gaza for such a visit, but that's hindsight.

That suggestion was rejected out of hand, which shows how much the "humanitarians" are concerned with humanity.

408 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:45:44pm

re: #402 prairiefire

I can't stand that lisping, toe sucking whore monger.

you're just jealous of his hair

409 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:46:20pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

She's GOP.

Cato thinks she has a chance too.

I'd rather see a Modern Whig.

Small chance of that though.

410 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:46:42pm

re: #405 JasonA

He certainly does not have a lisp!

He has a lazy muscle on the side of his lower lip that is always shiny despite what the make up people do. *shudder*
I guess you agree with the rest.

411 avanti  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:46:44pm

re: #393 Obdicut

If the right wing keeps raising expectations like that, anything other than a takeover of the house and senate are going to look like a defeat.

The tea party could pee on that parade if they keep helping defeat the best GOP candidates in the primaries because they not sufficiently "pure".

i.e., Reid has a better chance against the tea party pick.

Reid likes the tea party candidate.

412 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:16pm

re: #409 Ojoe

She's GOP.

Cato thinks she has a chance too.

I'd rather see a Modern Whig.

Small chance of that though.

so do I...she's not the joke some people think she is

413 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:26pm

re: #391 Charles

I agree with almost every word of that. Yes, this was a deliberately staged debacle, but the Israelis also made some seriously bad decisions in planning it.

Yep. I think Israel needs to be a lot smarter in future in handling situations like this. Clumsy and predictable responses will only invite more such debacles.

414 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:40pm

re: #409 Ojoe

She's GOP.

Cato thinks she has a chance too.

I'd rather see a Modern Whig.

Small chance of that though.

Yeah, because "Modern" kinda takes away from the whole name.

Palin does have a chance, because America is just that stupid.

415 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:40pm

re: #410 prairiefire

He has a lazy muscle on the side of his lower lip that is always shiny despite what the make up people do. *shudder*
I guess you agree with the rest.

If I have to explain the joke then I suck.

416 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:41pm

re: #408 albusteve

you're just jealous of his hair

Yes, I feel he has cornered the "parted on the side" look.

417 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:47:55pm

re: #389 Jimmah

Harry's Place on the Israeli commando raid:

full article:

[Link: hurryupharry.org...]

However ...

I definitely do not agree that it would have been a good idea to let these ships break the blockade, and I'm surprised they're even suggesting that. Especially after the way the passengers had already been behaving -- refusing direct orders, turning down offers to dock in Israel, etc. If Israel had let these ships just sail into Gaza, they might as well completely call off the blockade -- because at that point the protesters would have been successful in breaking it.

That's a precedent Israel cannot allow to happen.

418 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:04pm

re: #404 Ojoe

'Twas Gallup, just reported on Newsmax.

I'll give you my take: I don't like what the Republican Party is at the moment, but I have been out of professional work for about a year and a half, and I think that a big political shock in November (Republican sweep) might defillibrate the economy, so I'm tempted to hold my nose and vote R from some sort of desperation.

Yeah, problem is the poll does not report what you said. if you're getting "get ready for Palin" out of that poll, then...uh.

I can certainly believe that Palin could become the R nominee. But she'll be dismantled in the general, to the howls of birchers everywhere.

419 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:21pm

Must get more corn nuts and wine.

420 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:28pm

re: #415 JasonA

If I have to explain the joke then I suck.

Oh, no. I could be thick headed.

421 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:40pm

re: #410 prairiefire

He has a lazy muscle on the side of his lower lip that is always shiny despite what the make up people do. *shudder*
I guess you agree with the rest.

seems like you have inspected him quite thoroughly...that Shiny Lipped Ass!

422 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:58pm

re: #419 EdDantes

Must get more corn nuts and wine.

Welcome, by the way.

423 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:48:59pm

re: #420 prairiefire

Oh, no. I could be thick headed.

I like that answer better. :P

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:49:24pm

re: #409 Ojoe

She's GOP.

Cato thinks she has a chance too.

I'd rather see a Modern Whig.

Small chance of that though.

Palin's negatives are critical here. It ain't gonna happen.

425 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:50:12pm

re: #412 albusteve

No, not a joke, & she has a practicality that escapes the notice of the media & cultural elite.

I know it is popular to denigrate her on this blog.

But she cleaned out an old boy network, R and D both, in AK.

Might be useful to do that again in a larger theater.

426 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:50:23pm

re: #424 WindUpBird

Hup hup!

427 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:50:38pm

re: #421 albusteve

seems like you have inspected him quite thoroughly...that Shiny Lipped Ass!

Not on his ass, his face!

428 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:50:51pm

re: #424 WindUpBird

Palin's negatives are critical here. It ain't gonna happen.

negatives?...pffft
you should know better by now
BO got elected didn't he?

429 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:50:53pm

re: #425 Ojoe

lol, another one.

Does the smithsonian come around with dartguns and nets?

430 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:51:20pm

re: #427 prairiefire

Not on his ass, his face!

I'm not following that close...excuse me

431 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #425 Ojoe

What are you talking about? Who did she clean out? That cop?

432 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:10pm

Also by the way -- I think Israel's making another mistake right now by trying to link the Islamists on the ship to Al Qaeda, unless they can absolutely prove it.

I'm not saying I disbelieve the claims -- but even as someone who considers it a possibility, I think it would look really bad to make that kind of accusation without solid evidence. I hope they show that evidence and don't leave it the way it stands -- as just an accusation.

433 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:10pm

re: #429 windsagio

Ok, that was a bit harsh without hte context.

But really "A hidden practicality that the media and elites miss"?

Really?!

434 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:20pm

re: #419 EdDantes

Must get more corn nuts and wine.

That is just so wrong in so many ways
You'll fit in just fine

435 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:52:50pm

re: #429 windsagio

lol, another one.

Does the smithsonian come around with dartguns and nets?

another what?....lol

436 avanti  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:54:22pm

re: #428 albusteve

negatives?...pffft
you should know better by now
BO got elected didn't he?

Yes, but his approval ratings were in the 60's, not the 30's. Palin would win maybe 10 red states, and would hand Obama a second term in a cake walk, but I'd love to see the debates..

437 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:55:28pm

re: #436 avanti

Yes, but his approval ratings were in the 60's, not the 30's. Palin would win maybe 10 red states, and would hand Obama a second term in a cake walk, but I'd love to see the debates..

whatever....you get my drift or not?....BO was made, just like Palin is doing now

438 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:56:13pm

re: #437 albusteve

wait I totally don't get your drift. How was Obama 'made'?

439 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:56:38pm

re: #391 Charles

I agree with almost every word of that. Yes, this was a deliberately staged debacle, but the Israelis also made some seriously bad decisions in planning it.

I've been thinking about this and what planning it better really means. If a ship sailing to Gaza refuses to change course then the Israel's still have to board it. Tear gas on the deck? Anyone still there when it clears, wearing gas masks for example, gets shot? Commandos drop down and capture the bridge, dropping anyone who tries to stop them along the way? Those are things I can think of to reduce the risks to Israelis, but anyone who wants to die for this cause certainly will.

440 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:57:14pm

re: #438 windsagio

wait I totally don't get your drift. How was Obama 'made'?

another what?...lol
points go over your head like air molecules
another what?

441 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:57:17pm

van der Sloot allegedly killed another girl:[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

442 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:57:49pm

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes it is usual that the bites are itchy and unpleasant. NY is not the worst place for mosquitoes. Down in the DC area where I am, I have seen mosquitoes carry off small dogs and children. People further south will tell you of ones that fight aircraft.

I strongly recoomend the following things.

1. Off (or another repellent) they work and are worth teh few bucks.

2. Caladryll (or however you spell it). It's a topical cream that has the same stuff in it as Benedryl.

They're worse than midgies, I'll tell you that. Anyway I'll have a look for that 'caladryll' - cheers mate.

gotta go now - dinnertime.

Youtube Video
443 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:58:01pm

re: #424 WindUpBird

Palin's negatives are critical here. It ain't gonna happen.

So were Saint Ronnie's.

I'm still taking bets in Krugerrands that Palin will at least win the nomination.

444 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:58:33pm

re: #440 albusteve

oh that, it was a reference to something I said waaaay upthread. Read up if you want.

Otherwise, seriously, how was Obama 'made'?

445 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:59:34pm

re: #444 windsagio

oh that, it was a reference to something I said waaay upthread. Read up if you want.

Otherwise, seriously, how was Obama 'made'?

In a secret lab, hidden deep under the surface of Hawaii Nairobi...

446 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:59:37pm

re: #443 Cato the Elder

depends on 2010 really.

And that's a whoooooole different bet than whether she'll win the general :P

447 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 3:59:56pm

re: #431 Obdicut

An Alaskan Fisherman talks about Sarah Palin
By Dewie Whetsell, Alaskan Fisherman
As posted in comments on Greta's article referencing the MOVEON ad about Sarah Palin
by Dewey Whetsell

"The last 45 of my 66 years I've spent in a commercial fishing town in Alaska . I understand Alaska politics but never understood national politics well until this last year. Here's the breaking point: Neither side of the Palin controversy gets it. It's not about persona, style, rhetoric, it's about doing things. Even Palin supporters never mention the things that I'm about to mention here.

1- Democrats forget when Palin was the Darling of the Democrats, because as soon as Palin took the Governor's office away from a fellow Republican and tough SOB, Frank Murkowski, she tore into the Republican's "Corrupt Bastards Club" (CBC) and sent them packing. Many of them are now residing in State housing and wearing orange jump suits. The Democrats reacted by skipping around the yard, throwing confetti and singing "la la la la" (well, you know how they are). Name another governor in this country that has ever done anything similar.

Link

448 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:00:10pm

re: #444 windsagio

oh that, it was a reference to something I said waaay upthread. Read up if you want.

Otherwise, seriously, how was Obama 'made'?

I did...another what?....you say very stupid things then dodge the remarks afterword....another what?

449 blueraven  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:00:20pm

re: #386 Ojoe

Get ready for big GOP gains in November, and do not be surprised at Palin as VP or POTUS in 2012.

Oh, I do hope Palin runs.

450 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:00:43pm

re: #448 albusteve

oh I get it, okay. Carry on :D

451 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:01:07pm

re: #446 windsagio

depends on 2010 really.

And that's a whooole different bet than whether she'll win the general :P

really?...well duh....
we're talking the GOP nomination here

452 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:01:25pm

re: #444 windsagio

oh that, it was a reference to something I said waaay upthread. Read up if you want.

Otherwise, seriously, how was Obama 'made'?

/ well 1 part hope, 1 part change, 1/2 cup media bias, 2 cloves of Bush, pinch of salt & mix in a large tent...

453 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:03:02pm

re: #413 Jimmah

Yep. I think Israel needs to be a lot smarter in future in handling situations like this. Clumsy and predictable responses will only invite more such debacles.

I honestly believe one of the biggest planning mistakes was sending soldiers into a situation they apparently knew might turn violent, armed only with paintball guns. That must have been a real encouragement to the brave jihadi warriors, because this type always gets bolder when faced with an enemy that's obviously weaker. And if you're using paintballs in a confined space against people with metal clubs and K-Bar knives, you're going to get your ass kicked.

Big mistake. Better weaponry might have forestalled the violence. The brave warriors tend to back down in the face of superior firepower.

454 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:03:06pm

re: #447 Ojoe

Who are these people who are now wearing orange jumpsuits? Names of them?

It's really easy to say that someone did something. I prefer seeing actual proof that they did something. I remember people talking about how Palin had achieved something huge with a pipeline-- that turned out to be complete bullshit.

So can you give me names of the people Palin cleaned out who are now in prison?

455 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:03:26pm

re: #452 brookly red

Sounds tasty!

Is there a no-bush version of the recipe tho'?

456 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:03:36pm

re: #450 windsagio

oh I get it, okay. Carry on :D

why don't you just answer the question?

457 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:03:56pm

re: #422 prairiefire

Welcome, by the way.

Thank you very much! I got more corn nuts and wine.

458 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:05:11pm

re: #456 albusteve

why don't you just answer the question?

It's kind of funny that you're dodging a question while badgering someone about answering a question.

But not that funny.

459 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:05:24pm

re: #453 Charles

I'd bet every dollar I have there there won't be any paintball guns in IDF hands the next time they need to enforce the blockade.

460 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:06:38pm

re: #454 Obdicut

Who are these people who are now wearing orange jumpsuits? Names of them?

It's really easy to say that someone did something. I prefer seeing actual proof that they did something. I remember people talking about how Palin had achieved something huge with a pipeline-- that turned out to be complete bullshit.

So can you give me names of the people Palin cleaned out who are now in prison?

Palin supporters don't give a shit about facts...nobody does anymore...it's an Am Idol world and your desperate search for the truth leads to a dead end

461 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:06:49pm

re: #456 albusteve

Because you don't really care about the answer, and that's not your purpose at all :p

462 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:06:50pm

re: #340 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh yes, I saw that post late last night about the tugboat. Before I get to that though, I have to say, I agree with your Voltron metaphor. You have a very good point. If you want to really make it a Jewish metaphor though, simply point that Amalek knew they could not win, but they also knew that if they could make Jews bleed, they would embolden others to try.

As to the tugboat, generating the kind of field you are talking about would be rather difficult and I would very much *not* want to deal with salt sprays and the sort of power outputs that would be needed. Worse though is the fact that if you turn on a field that strong, you will automatically slam your tug into the other ship. If you are deploying something like one of those big magnets that picks up cars, I then that would slam into the hull of the other ship once it got close enough and likely breach the hull.

Honestly much cheaper and more effective to fire a five inch shell amidships if you want to sink them.

If you want to tow them, much more effective to simply grapple the other ship. You also frankly only would want to do any towing after taking out the engines or screws of the other vessel. The last thing you want is a tug of war at sea.

Largely I agree in terms of ethics and efficacy, but right now I am operating under / testing the theory is that viewers have an inherently more negative response to the use of disposable weaponry, i.e. ammunition and traditional direct or indirect fire ordnance.

There's something that is already dehumanizing about body armor, so we agree that there is no point to putting men in it in harms way with no good options. I just really have to believe that there has got to be some tangible value in finding an effective solution that doesn't involve explosives.

Ideally the solution should be reusable too, you hand the enemy a small victory when he costs you the continued use of any asset you use to defeat him, which goes back to your lesson learned at Amalek. Maybe set the switch for the electromagnet to close only when triggered by a strong filtered vibration sensor, or radar proximity of < 0.25 meters? Yeah it will slam hard, I'm not aiming for a pillow fight here. My goal is to help send a message, and maybe save a few lives in the process.

463 Aye Pod  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:06:56pm

re: #453 Charles

I honestly believe one of the biggest planning mistakes was sending soldiers into a situation they apparently knew might turn violent, armed only with paintball guns.

Seriously. It sounds like something out of a Chris Morris parody.

464 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #461 windsagio

Also you already know, forgot that part :)

465 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:07:06pm

re: #458 Obdicut

It's kind of funny that you're dodging a question while badgering someone about answering a question.

But not that funny.

what question?...ask me

466 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:07:43pm

re: #455 windsagio

Sounds tasty!

Is there a no-bush version of the recipe tho'?

No but the Palin Puffs are big sellers... 1 part high taxes, 1 part high unemployment, 1/2 cup sugar, whip into a frenzy & bake on a well greased sheet. (that is a cookie sheet Cato)

467 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:08:48pm

re: #461 windsagio

Because you don't really care about the answer, and that's not your purpose at all :p

I happen to like Ojoe and I saw no reason for you to belittle him...what exactly do you mean by 'another one'?....he made a simple observation that had nothing attached to it as far as support for Palin...you are an ass

468 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:09:20pm

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

469 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:09:23pm

Photos or nothing these days!

A lobbyist who resigned from a rival political campaign is claiming to have had a tryst with a South Carolina lawmaker trying to become the state's first female governor.

The allegation made Wednesday by lobbyist Larry Marchant is the second leveled at Republican state Rep. Nikki Haley in the past two weeks. Her campaign vehemently denies both allegations.

Neither claim has come with proof.

[Link: ht.ly...]

WaPo

470 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:10:02pm

re: #467 albusteve

Steve, you've been more than normally insulting and abrasive for a couple of days now. Are you doing okay?

471 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:10:48pm

re: #469 Stanley Sea

Its still sad that just the allegation of an affair is enough to sink someone.

/because it has SO much to do with governance!

472 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:10:52pm

re: #468 JasonA

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

sounds reasonable...nothing but clones, and think off all the black hole union jobs they can eliminate....good move

473 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:11:31pm

re: #454 Obdicut

Tom Anderson for one.

474 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:11:42pm

re: #469 Stanley Sea

I'd like to take this time to reveal my affairs with Jewel Staite, Nathan Fillion, and Gina Torres, but the rumors about me and Joss Whedon himself are untrue.

Joss just watches.

475 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:11:44pm

re: #468 JasonA

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

/it don't sell... they are concentrating on Lincolns cause they make good cabs. private car ownership is soooo yesterday.

476 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:12:59pm

re: #473 Ojoe

Tom Anderson for one.

I think that was the FBI. What was the Palin connection?

477 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:13:28pm

re: #470 Obdicut

Steve, you've been more than normally insulting and abrasive for a couple of days now. Are you doing okay?

yes, I've decided I really don't like you or your fan club at all....very peaceful here on my end....you people want to post stupid, abrasive, insults, I've decided to speak up

478 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:13:32pm

re: #468 JasonA

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

Yes, it is sad. The auto industry is rebounding, thank goodness.

479 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:13:46pm

re: #471 windsagio

Its still sad that just the allegation of an affair is enough to sink someone.

/because it has SO much to do with governance!

I don't think it's going to sink her though. Or any of the others. It's just the memory we have of how bad this used to be for a politician in the past and it isn't anymore.

480 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:14:16pm

re: #462 goddamnedfrank

re: #453 Charles

re: #389 Jimmah

I hear all of your points. I really do. It may be that behind the scenes the Israelis are told that xy&z will happen to them from the US and Europe if they do not just take provocation after provocation and that is what really holds them back.

However, I am very tired of a life and death struggle being portrayed as a PR war.

This is not a game and the opinions of ignorant people really should not have to be part of the calculus. I think a much more clear PR voice of stating obvious military realities, without cringing apologies, would be more effective.

Simply say:

We are going to use the same rules of engagement the the US, Britain or France has in similar deployments. If the US, France and England don't like them, they can change their own standards.

And then do what navies have always done, and I do mean always to blockade runners. Sink the bastards and let them swim a bit. Yes there would be a giant outcry. It would last all of a month. Then they would not have the issue ever again.

481 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:14:41pm

re: #477 albusteve

yes, I've decided I really don't like you or your fan club at all...very peaceful here on my end...you people want to post stupid, abrasive, insults, I've decided to speak up

Yes, and we've noticed the increase in vitriol lately. Thanks for making it so enjoyable.

482 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:15:34pm

re: #478 prairiefire

Yes, it is sad. The auto industry is rebounding, thank goodness.

/yeah Honda is up 19.1 percent...

483 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:15:59pm

re: #477 albusteve

You've been the one throwing insults in this thread, Steve.

I'm not sure what you mean by my fan club, either. If I have one, how come I don't get any cool t-shirts or mugs? Shouldn't I be informed of such things?

484 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:16:30pm

re: #483 Obdicut

You've been the one throwing insults in this thread, Steve.

I'm not sure what you mean by my fan club, either. If I have one, how come I don't get any cool t-shirts or mugs? Shouldn't I be informed of such things?

Miss S sent you cookies :)

485 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:16:34pm

re: #483 Obdicut

You've been the one throwing insults in this thread, Steve.

I'm not sure what you mean by my fan club, either. If I have one, how come I don't get any cool t-shirts or mugs? Shouldn't I be informed of such things?

I second that! you have no fan club :)

486 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:16:44pm

re: #481 Stanley Sea

Yes, and we've noticed the increase in vitriol lately. Thanks for making it so enjoyable.

you are welcome

487 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:17:40pm

re: #483 Obdicut

You've been the one throwing insults in this thread, Steve.

I'm not sure what you mean by my fan club, either. If I have one, how come I don't get any cool t-shirts or mugs? Shouldn't I be informed of such things?

they're to cheap I guess

488 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #486 albusteve

you are welcome

I love the smell of vitriol in the morning...

489 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #484 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll always upding cookies!

490 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:19:11pm

re: #488 brookly red

I love the smell of vitriol in the morning...

it's the bullshit that initiates it that really stinks

492 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:20:15pm

re: #474 Obdicut

I'd like to take this time to reveal my affairs with Jewel Staite, Nathan Fillion, and Gina Torres, but the rumors about me and Joss Whedon himself are untrue.

Joss just watches.

i unilaterally declare you today's internet winner

493 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:20:51pm

re: #490 albusteve

it's the bullshit that initiates it that really stinks

I live in NYC I am desensitized, well for the most part...

494 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:21:33pm

I feel I should stick up for Steve. He's being no more an asshole than usual.

495 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:23:24pm

re: #73 JasonA

We need to start a pool on how long it takes before BP changes its name and what it will be.

Maybe they'll bring back Amoco

496 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:23:35pm

re: #491 Alouette

Yikes.

497 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:24:26pm

re: #495 alexknyc

Sorry, we already had a winner: Blackwater.

498 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:24:30pm

re: #494 JasonA

I feel I should stick up for Steve. He's being no more an asshole than usual.

yes, disagreement means asshole, troll, and of course Nazi....trouble is people like you are not leading, you are barely even following....why should Ojoe be derided as 'another one'...another what? speak up....because you or your buddies won't answer a simple question I'm an asshole...whatever, strafe me

499 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:24:39pm

re: #446 windsagio

depends on 2010 really.

And that's a whooole different bet than whether she'll win the general :P

If she wins the nomination (and I notice you haven't put any gold where your mouth is), she'll take the election.

All the 'tards will register to vote for the first time. All the creationists, all the dogwhistle racists, all the Christian theocrats, all the other Bible humpers, all the Luap Norians, all the Christian Zionists who love Israel for all the wrong reasons, all the inbred rednecks, all the wannabe wolfslayers, all the people who were taught to think that ACORN = Stalin. All of them.

It can happen here.

500 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:25:51pm

re: #498 albusteve

I have yet to use the word Nazi in this thread, actually.

501 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:25:52pm

re: #498 albusteve

yes, disagreement means asshole, troll, and of course Nazi...trouble is people like you are not leading, you are barely even following...why should Ojoe be derided as 'another one'...another what? speak up...because you or your buddies won't answer a simple question I'm an asshole...whatever, strafe me

/oh my a disturbance in the force...

502 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:26:06pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

If she wins the nomination (and I notice you haven't put any gold where your mouth is), she'll take the election.

All the 'tards will register to vote for the first time. All the creationists, all the dogwhistle racists, all the Christian theocrats, all the other Bible humpers, all the Luap Norians, all the Christian Zionists who love Israel for all the wrong reasons, all the inbred rednecks, all the wannabe wolfslayers, all the people who were taught to think that ACORN = Stalin. All of them.

It can happen here.

you're "another one"
'cept nobody will stand up and say what that is

503 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:26:38pm

re: #491 Alouette

O.M.G.

Worthless Israeli leftist turd moans about what a useless cowardly putz he is.

He lost me on the eighth word:

Israel loses its composure in face of non-violent...

504 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:27:03pm

re: #468 JasonA

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

Sad. Calls for the blues:

Youtube Video
505 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #495 alexknyc

Maybe they'll bring back Amoco

This might work.

506 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:27:21pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

I wouldn't bet that she wouldn't win the nomination.

I strongly reject your other premice. It could happen here (love that reference btw), but its vanishingly unlikely. The whole point of the current furor amongst those groups is because they're dying. They've lost the culture war, and they're in the 'rage' part of mourning.

507 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:27:56pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

If she wins the nomination (and I notice you haven't put any gold where your mouth is), she'll take the election.

All the 'tards will register to vote for the first time. All the creationists, all the dogwhistle racists, all the Christian theocrats, all the other Bible humpers, all the Luap Norians, all the Christian Zionists who love Israel for all the wrong reasons, all the inbred rednecks, all the wannabe wolfslayers, all the people who were taught to think that ACORN = Stalin. All of them.

It can happen here.

yup and it sure looks likely too...

508 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:28:02pm

re: #482 brookly red

/yeah Honda is up 19.1 percent...

"GM improves its US industry forecast":[Link: www.autospies.com...]

509 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:28:35pm

re: #500 JasonA

He got really pisst a while ago because LVQ compared the 'baggers (and especially the AZ border-racists) to Nazis. He hasn't really been able to let go of it since.

Its like he thinks somebody called him a nazi!

510 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:28:42pm

Typical American Gaza flotilla spokesperson.

511 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:29:01pm

re: #498 albusteve

It's because you're doing things like calling him an ass that you're acting like an asshole, Steve.

I've been asking Ojoe for examples of people that Palin cleaned out, and I haven't gotten any answer-- except for one gentleman that I think the FBI, not Palin, was responsible for. To me, Ojoe is 'another one' of the people who say positive things about Palin but, when pushed, can't actually back it up.

Is that satisfactory to you?

512 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:29:49pm

re: #502 albusteve

you're "another one"
'cept nobody will stand up and say what that is

Homeopaths.

513 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:29:57pm

re: #508 prairiefire

"GM improves its US industry forecast":[Link: www.autospies.com...]

cool maybe we won't have to bulldoze Detroit after all.

514 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:30:40pm

re: #480 LudwigVanQuixote

I assure you that, as unfortunate and unfair as this may seem, life is a PR battle.

515 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:30:55pm

re: #511 Obdicut

It's because you're doing things like calling him an ass that you're acting like an asshole, Steve.

I've been asking Ojoe for examples of people that Palin cleaned out, and I haven't gotten any answer-- except for one gentleman that I think the FBI, not Palin, was responsible for. To me, Ojoe is 'another one' of the people who say positive things about Palin but, when pushed, can't actually back it up.

Is that satisfactory to you?

no...my beef is not with you or that post....butt out

516 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:31:22pm

re: #499 Cato the Elder

If she wins the nomination (and I notice you haven't put any gold where your mouth is), she'll take the election.

All the 'tards will register to vote for the first time. All the creationists, all the dogwhistle racists, all the Christian theocrats, all the other Bible humpers, all the Luap Norians, all the Christian Zionists who love Israel for all the wrong reasons, all the inbred rednecks, all the wannabe wolfslayers, all the people who were taught to think that ACORN = Stalin. All of them.

It can happen here.

Actually, many of those folks mention did register for the first time and come out to vote for GWB in 2004.
Ashcroft allegedly pushed registration hard in the fundie Pentecostal churches.

517 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:32:03pm

re: #511 Obdicut

I hate answering rhetorical questions, but since you did...

It was a reference to this. So another one means 'Palin people' or more precisely 'Palin fans'.

518 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:32:28pm

re: #515 albusteve

no...my beef is not with you or that post...butt out

Did you try #504? It's a great version.

519 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:32:40pm

re: #506 windsagio

I wouldn't bet that she wouldn't win the nomination.

I strongly reject your other premice. It could happen here (love that reference btw), but its vanishingly unlikely. The whole point of the current furor amongst those groups is because they're dying. They've lost the culture war, and they're in the 'rage' part of mourning.

It would be pretty to think that, wouldn't it?

Kid yourself all you like - my eyes are open.

And what is a "premice"?

520 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:33:42pm

re: #516 prairiefire

Actually, many of those folks mention did register for the first time and come out to vote for GWB in 2004.
Ashcroft allegedly pushed registration hard in the fundie Pentecostal churches.

and maybe 2 or 3 people out of 300 million just are not feeling Obama... hey I know that is hard for some to believe but it could happen.

521 firstinla  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:33:42pm

re: #519 Cato the Elder

A mouse ovary?

522 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:34:33pm

re: #515 albusteve

no...my beef is not with you or that post...butt out

Your beef is not with me, but you've decided you 'don't like me or [my] fan club' and 'you people just post stupid, abrasive insults'? You can't just pick fights with people and then tell them to butt out, Steve. That's incredibly wimpy of you.

Whatever. I'm heading home.

523 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:34:38pm

re: #468 JasonA

Huh. Ford's getting rid of Mercury?

I just saw that.
There's not much difference between the higher-end Ford models and the equivalent Mercury models. In fact, they said Mercury only has 4 models left - I can see why it's a good move for them to get rid of this brand.

524 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:35:47pm

re: #523 reine.de.tout

I know, it's just that I used to have a Topaz. Actually, my dad passed away and I inherited it from me. Fond memories of it for that reason. Not that it was all that great a car...

525 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:36:05pm

re: #524 JasonA

I know, it's just that I used to have a Topaz. Actually, my dad passed away and I inherited it from mehim. Fond memories of it for that reason. Not that it was all that great a car...

526 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:36:06pm

re: #518 wrenchwench

Did you try #504? It's a great version.

I did, sorry...it just stopped playing, killer vid...who can't like Lindley?, an American gift....he's touring again with what's his name....J Browne....and btw BB king and Buddy Guy are playing Sandia this fall....wow, last chance

527 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:36:34pm

re: #472 albusteve

sounds reasonable...nothing but clones, and think off all the black hole union jobs they can eliminate...good move

The plan seems to be to beef up Lincoln's car line, and replace Mercury with their Ford equivalents. I'm not sure this will have as big a negative impact as the increasingly lower sales of Mercury vehicles would have. As noted above, Mercury only has 4 models right now, and there's not much difference between a higher-end Ford and the Mercury equivalents.

528 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:36:48pm

re: #524 JasonA

I know, it's just that I used to have a Topaz. Actually, my dad passed away and I inherited it from me. Fond memories of it for that reason. Not that it was all that great a car...

heh. i had an old topaz, too. terrible car.

529 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:37:03pm

re: #519 Cato the Elder

Thats why I'm saying lets watch 2010. It'll be at least a hint.

Anyways, there's absolutely no evidence that Palin could win anything but a small proportion of the country. Do you have something to show otherwise that I missed?

530 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:38:49pm

re: #529 windsagio

Thats why I'm saying lets watch 2010. It'll be at least a hint.

Anyways, there's absolutely no evidence that Palin could win anything but a small proportion of the country. Do you have something to show otherwise that I missed?

2010 is going to be a rout for the Democrats. What, you don't think wingnut propaganda is working?

531 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:39:00pm

re: #520 brookly red

and maybe 2 or 3 people out of 300 million just are not feeling Obama... hey I know that is hard for some to believe but it could happen.

I know my mom-in-law can't stand him. Also, my hard core rightie friend has had a pinched nerve in her neck for 14 months and can't find the time for a lunch date. I think she does not want to make a scene by hollaring at me for voting for him. And thinking he is groovy.

532 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:39:14pm

re: #529 windsagio

Thats why I'm saying lets watch 2010. It'll be at least a hint.

Anyways, there's absolutely no evidence that Palin could win anything but a small proportion of the country. Do you have something to show otherwise that I missed?

17 million unemployed?

533 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:39:26pm

re: #522 Obdicut

I'd stake it up to 'med errors'.

534 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:40:22pm

re: #532 brookly red

show that would directly convert to Palin votes tho' >>

535 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:40:47pm

re: #532 brookly red

17 million unemployed?

Keep telling yourself that.

536 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:41:30pm

re: #527 reine.de.tout

The plan seems to be to beef up Lincoln's car line, and replace Mercury with their Ford equivalents. I'm not sure this will have as big a negative impact as the increasingly lower sales of Mercury vehicles would have. As noted above, Mercury only has 4 models right now, and there's not much difference between a higher-end Ford and the Mercury equivalents.

I think the makers are putting their money where the best return is, instead of pandering to those 75k die hard customers that they can always count on....it's not a bad car, it's the subtle differences and marketing....money better spent on Ford products

537 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:41:32pm

re: #534 windsagio

times like this I wish I could 'edit'!

Because that's not the premise.

Intentional negativity aside, Palin is a nearly sure-fire loser in 2012. I honestly have no idea where Cato is coming from on this one, except an excess of negativity.

538 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:41:38pm

re: #533 windsagio

I'd stake it up to 'med errors'.

You really have a knack for malapropisms.

The phrase you're groping for is "chalk it up".

539 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:41:52pm

re: #528 Aceofwhat?

heh. i had an old topaz, too. terrible car.

By the way, having seen the match, I have to say I think Stosur actually hits bigger than Serena. That's my girl.

540 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:42:00pm

re: #538 Cato the Elder

Its part of my charm :D

541 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:44:07pm

re: #531 prairiefire

I know my mom-in-law can't stand him. Also, my hard core rightie friend has had a pinched nerve in her neck for 14 months and can't find the time for a lunch date. I think she does not want to make a scene by hollaring at me for voting for him. And thinking he is groovy.

hey look I am a registered Democrat from NYC and I think he is too far left... now that is just my opinion but I am not alone. If the economy does not rebound in a hurry & big-time he can not win, so it does not matter who runs against him. It could be Palin, it could be you. The economy sucks & people are angry.

542 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:44:14pm

re: #537 windsagio

times like this I wish I could 'edit'!

Because that's not the premise.

Intentional negativity aside, Palin is a nearly sure-fire loser in 2012. I honestly have no idea where Cato is coming from on this one, except an excess of negativity.

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

543 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:44:17pm

re: #469 Stanley Sea

Photos or nothing these days!

[Link: ht.ly...]

WaPo

I agree! Texts or photos. I have read more about how nasty SC state politics are. I need more proof against Nikki!

544 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:45:28pm

re: #534 windsagio

show that would directly convert to Palin votes tho' >>

not Palin votes... anti Obama votes big difference. These days we don't vote for we vote against.

545 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:45:32pm

re: #541 brookly red

You are a registered Democrat?!?

O.O

546 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:45:43pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

top down, 95mph, clear road ahead

547 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:45:48pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder

2010 is going to be a rout for the Democrats. What, you don't think wingnut propaganda is working?

If the average American trusted Wallstreet and big business, then you would have a lock. However, distrust of the government is quite strongly balanced by distrust of the normal things the GOP is associated with. I expect there to be a number of surprise results. Some districts will go GOP that were considered Dem bastions, and others will go Dem seemingly out of the blue.

548 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:45:56pm

God, Haley Barbour. Apologist for horrors, it should be on his business card: [Link: thinkprogress.org...]

549 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:06pm

re: #535 prairiefire

Keep telling yourself that.

keep denying it.

550 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:21pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

Do I still win the bet if she doesn't run?

551 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:30pm

re: #541 brookly red

hey look I am a registered Democrat from NYC and I think he is too far left... now that is just my opinion but I am not alone. If the economy does not rebound in a hurry & big-time he can not win, so it does not matter who runs against him. It could be Palin, it could be you. The economy sucks & people are angry.

Brookly, change your registration to R so you can start getting their mailings. They would be thrilled and you could help tilt the numbers their way.

552 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:33pm

re: #545 JasonA

You are a registered Democrat?!?

O.O

He's not hahahaha he's like a Bizarro Democrat from a square planet earth where there's nothing but square-headed Lois Lanes

553 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:45pm

re: #539 Renaissance_Man

By the way, having seen the match, I have to say I think Stosur actually hits bigger than Serena. That's my girl.

i just finished watching it in the background!

I think that Stosur has more giddy-up off of the forehand side, for sure. her backhand isn't as strong, but the Steffi Graf model can still work in women's tennis...keep yourself in the point with the backhand and then rip a forehand.

Jankovic is a counter-puncher...it'll be really interesting to see those two contrasting styles. Stosur just needs to keep her head in the game...when she tightens up, she stops swinging hard and she can't win if she doesn't swing hard.

554 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:46:57pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

We'll see, I guess. Sorry if I don't take your words as prophecy :D

555 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:47:20pm

re: #532 brookly red

17 million unemployed?

President Palin is as likely as President Nader.

556 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:47:32pm

re: #550 JasonA

Do I still win the bet if she doesn't run?

were you raised in a corn field?

557 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:47:37pm

re: #545 JasonA

You are a registered Democrat?!?

O.O

yup and I vote my wallet.

558 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:47:38pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

Cyber money or real money?

559 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:47:43pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

Yeah I'll take you up on that one. If I lose it, I have bigger problems than the money I lost. But I honestly don't think that she could carry a general election. She simply is not bright enough to withstand the media pressure.

However, if the economy tanks between now and then, I could easily see someone like Rand Paul winning.

560 dugmartsch  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:49:04pm

re: #551 prairiefire

Brookly, change your registration to R so you can start getting their mailings. They would be thrilled and you could help tilt the numbers their way.

My girlfriend registered R to vote for Ron Paul in the 2004 primary (don't ask). Most of the spam that we get sent to our house is from the RNC or some crazy fucking wingnut begging for money.

561 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:49:19pm

re: #552 WindUpBird

Puts some of the fighting recently in a different light, dunnit?

562 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:50:31pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

I'd probably bet you! I think you're being way pessimistic, but I'd take your money! I'd want the exact terms though.

Palin will probably win the nomination because he has a brand and no other Republican has a brand. Nobody is pulling the base like she is. I wouldn't take that bet, because the GOP could totally nominate her.

But she won't win the election. She'll be paved over by the most advanced internet-era campaign apparatus the world has ever seen.

563 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:50:40pm

re: #558 prairiefire

re: #559 LudwigVanQuixote

Offering to bet 'real money' on the internet is silly anyways, no way to collect, not to mention the good chance that one or both of the people involved will be gone in 2 1/2 years.

564 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:50:51pm

re: #551 prairiefire

Brookly, change your registration to R so you can start getting their mailings. They would be thrilled and you could help tilt the numbers their way.

why would I do that I want to vote in local elections too...

I have to laugh at all the people that just can't read the writing on the wall. Look I love the Mets but they have no chance. Period.

565 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:50:55pm

re: #553 Aceofwhat?

i just finished watching it in the background!

I think that Stosur has more giddy-up off of the forehand side, for sure. her backhand isn't as strong, but the Steffi Graf model can still work in women's tennis...keep yourself in the point with the backhand and then rip a forehand.

Jankovic is a counter-puncher...it'll be really interesting to see those two contrasting styles. Stosur just needs to keep her head in the game...when she tightens up, she stops swinging hard and she can't win if she doesn't swing hard.

There are a couple of possibilities - one being that she has a letdown after getting up for Serena and Henin, the other that it fills her with enough confidence to go ahead and win it all. She's the best left in the draw.

566 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:50:58pm

re: #556 albusteve

were you raised in a corn field?

Just going over the finer details.

567 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:51:09pm

re: #563 windsagio

re: #559 LudwigVanQuixote

Offering to bet 'real money' on the internet is silly anyways, no way to collect, not to mention the good chance that one or both of the people involved will be gone in 2 1/2 years.

one of them is going to die??

568 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:51:28pm

re: #562 WindUpBird

Palin will probably win the nomination because he has a brand and no other Republican has a brand.

Not Todd silly!

... altho' he probably has a better chance of winning than Sarah does >>

570 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:51:45pm

re: #563 windsagio

re: #559 LudwigVanQuixote

Offering to bet 'real money' on the internet is silly anyways, no way to collect, not to mention the good chance that one or both of the people involved will be gone in 2 1/2 years.

there's escrow services for that!

571 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:51:49pm

re: #567 Aceofwhat?

Could be!

I'd say stroke or aneurysm!

572 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:52:45pm

re: #565 Renaissance_Man

There are a couple of possibilities - one being that she has a letdown after getting up for Serena and Henin, the other that it fills her with enough confidence to go ahead and win it all. She's the best left in the draw.

And the most fun to watch, by far. Jankovic and Dementieva bore me...go Samantha!

(and she uses my racquet...but that's just the icing on the cake)

573 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:53:11pm

re: #569 WindUpBird

The best Bizarro storyline has to do with the first Bizarro child ever born.

He looked like a normal human, and so the horrified parents abandoned him on earth.

Then Superman made a Bizarro supergirl to be a babysitter, but she tried to murder Lois. So he annihilated her.

574 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:53:13pm

re: #571 windsagio

Could be!

I'd say stroke or aneurysm!

You really are a fucked up little man, you know that?

575 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:53:34pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

Except I'm a 'big' man...

Get my drift?

576 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:53:40pm

re: #571 windsagio

sorry. didn't mean to bait you into going there...

577 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:53:58pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

You really are a fucked up little man, you know that?

On happier notes, tell me true, did you throw the third book across the room at a certain point?

578 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:03pm

re: #541 brookly red

hey look I am a registered Democrat from NYC and I think he is too far left... now that is just my opinion but I am not alone. If the economy does not rebound in a hurry & big-time he can not win, so it does not matter who runs against him. It could be Palin, it could be you. The economy sucks & people are angry.

You are a registered democrat like Zell miller is ;-)

Every single one of your opinions that you advocate on this board are GOP boilerplate, which, hey, good for you, but making the argument that you're "registered democrat and he's far left" is the most concern trolley thing possible.

579 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:18pm

re: #573 windsagio

The best Bizarro storyline has to do with the first Bizarro child ever born.

He looked like a normal human, and so the horrified parents abandoned him on earth.

Then Superman made a Bizarro supergirl to be a babysitter, but she tried to murder Lois. So he annihilated her.

what

580 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:34pm

re: #577 LudwigVanQuixote

On happier notes, tell me true, did you throw the third book across the room at a certain point?

No, but only because it's a Kindle.

581 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:35pm

OMG! Rush comes out against Rand Paul.

.

.

/

582 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:39pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

Of course what I meant was that someone is likely to quit the blog before then, but since Ace mentioned death, I decided to make a joke about how worked up people get.

/its sad tho', nothing ruins a joke like having to explain it.

583 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:54:52pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

I have called every presidential election since 1968, when I was twelve, months in advance.

If Palin runs in 2012, she will win the nomination. If she gets that, she will win the general election. Don't believe me? Bets are open.

I'll wait for when the election is months in advance then. Right now it's years away or two years to be exact. It's too early to call.

If things don't change on the economic front by the middle of 2012 then I would put my money on a standard Republican such as Pawlenty or Jindal.

Right now Palin's overall favorability polling is at 24 percent nationwide.

584 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:55:24pm

re: #576 Aceofwhat?

Don't apologize, man. Its all groovy!

585 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:55:38pm

re: #582 windsagio

Of course what I meant was that someone is likely to quit the blog before then, but since Ace mentioned death, I decided to make a joke about how worked up people get.

/its sad tho', nothing ruins a joke like having to explain it.

You have to explain most of your posts. Nothing as sad as rhetoric fail.

586 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:55:48pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

HAHAHAHAH well done Rush!

My uncle has a country place
that no one knows about...

587 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:55:58pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

Man the phrase "Rush comes out" got me all hot and bothered for a moment!

588 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:56:14pm

re: #572 Aceofwhat?

And the most fun to watch, by far. Jankovic and Dementieva bore me...go Samantha!

(and she uses my racquet...but that's just the icing on the cake)

I find Dementieva good to watch, partly for the hotness, and partly for the total randomness factor of her serving. It's like a train wreck.

589 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:56:40pm

re: #578 WindUpBird

You are a registered democrat like Zell miller is ;-)

Every single one of your opinions that you advocate on this board are GOP boilerplate, which, hey, good for you, but making the argument that you're "registered democrat and he's far left" is the most concern trolley thing possible.

Oh no I am at best a Blue dog... but not far left. There was a time when Dems were not lefties, but those days are gone.

590 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:56:49pm

re: #587 windsagio

Man the phrase "Rush comes out" got me all hot and bothered for a moment!

I need a fucking Xbox HD so I can play my Rock Band Moving Pictures again ;_;

591 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:57:09pm

re: #589 brookly red

Oh no I am at best a Blue dog... but not far left. There was a time when Dems were not lefties, but those days are gone.

yes, before the CRA, they were not lefties

592 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:57:22pm

re: #580 Cato the Elder

No, but only because it's a Kindle.

Yeah, that pissed me off like no other thing I had ever read. It made my desire for the slow demise of Cersie Lannister and others all the more intense.

For the record, now that we can talk abut it, I am assuming that Tyrion will be of great use to certain parties and I want and expect John Snow to become king by marrying Danaeries.

593 RogueOne  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:57:23pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

OMG! Rush comes out against Rand Paul.

.

.

/


If he were smart he would have dumped the Rush a long time ago. There isn't a whiter band than Rush on the planet that doesn't play country music.

594 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:58:35pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

OMG! Rush comes out against Rand Paul.

.

.

/

Ahh the cool, talented and educated Rush...

595 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:58:40pm

re: #593 RogueOne

If he were smart he would have dumped the Rush a long time ago. There isn't a whiter band than Rush on the planet that doesn't play country music.


heeheehee

596 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:58:44pm

re: #593 RogueOne

If he were smart he would have dumped the Rush a long time ago. There isn't a whiter band than Rush on the planet that doesn't play country music.

thank goodness they are irrelevant!
(good one)

597 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:58:45pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

Palin will pull women's votes big time too.

598 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:58:50pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

OMG! Rush comes out against Rand Paul.

.

.

/

Wait! I have an idea for the replacement band for Rand Paul!

Prussian Blue

599 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:59:06pm

re: #591 WindUpBird

yes, before the CRA, they were not lefties

Get all pissy it does not change a thing... I will vote in my best interests and so will most. Read the writing on the wall.

600 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:59:17pm

re: #597 Ojoe

lol.

601 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:59:20pm

re: #591 WindUpBird

yes, before the CRA, they were not lefties

Be careful on that. The Dems have always been fractured along the Mason Dixon line.

602 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:59:30pm

re: #598 Gus 802

Creepiest 'band' on earth!

603 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 4:59:51pm

re: #585 Cato the Elder

No you just don't like me, so you only see the bad :P

604 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:00:03pm

There was that Dope/Static-X guitarist, he was a full on conservative libertarian, hung out with the very serious conservative drummer of Pantera, Rand Paul could use him...


BUUUT then he was arrested for stat rape, whoops! He could use Pantera... whoops, Anselmo is a full on racist!

Oh well! :D

605 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:00:04pm

re: #597 Ojoe

Palin will pull women's votes big time too.

"nice glasses, I want those!...
whoops, gotta vote here for a second"

606 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:00:22pm

re: #593 RogueOne

If he were smart he would have dumped the Rush a long time ago. There isn't a whiter band than Rush on the planet that doesn't play country music.

I'm not sure it's brains that affect a decision like that. I think it's from the heart, or what passes for one in his chest.

607 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:00:25pm

re: #601 LudwigVanQuixote

Be careful on that. The Dems have always been fractured along the Mason Dixon line.

Just referring to the dixiecrat =>republican thang ;-)

608 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:00:25pm

re: #588 Renaissance_Man

I find Dementieva good to watch, partly for the hotness, and partly for the total randomness factor of her serving. It's like a train wreck.

Oh, watching her serve is rubber-necking at its finest. I know that some schadenfreude is likely involved in the fun i derive from watching a pro athlete get a terrible case of the yips, but i don't care. It's still fun. But other than that, her game isn't captivating like a Williams, Henin, or Stosur.

And yeah. I wouldn't kick her or Stosur out of bed...although i'm pretty sure that i couldn't kick Stosur out of anything. That grrrl is ripped.

609 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:01:03pm

re: #602 windsagio

Creepiest 'band' on earth!

Yeah, a favorite of David Duke and Nick Griffin (when he's visiting the states).

I know they're not really a band.

610 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:01:06pm

re: #463 Jimmah

Seriously. It sounds like something out of a Chris Morris parody.

They should have gone with airsoft, or laser tag.

611 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:02:02pm

re: #559 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I'll take you up on that one. If I lose it, I have bigger problems than the money I lost. But I honestly don't think that she could carry a general election. She simply is not bright enough to withstand the media pressure.

However, if the economy tanks between now and then, I could easily see someone like Rand Paul winning.

Hey you! The garage is almost packed..Kindof..What a mess..I have 20 Basketballs floating around there is odd packaging that isn't going to work..
Ludwig..Thank you so much for your comments about me being Adopted by the tribe... I am deeply humbled...You have no idea what that means to me...I wasn't adopted until I was 12 years old...Nobody ever wanted this reject.. God has been kind to me...And if God's people ever want to adopt me.. I'm all for it...
Thank you Ludwig...
It meant alot to me...
/Wiping tear from eye..Anybody want to fight about it?
//except the stalkers...I'm over them..Forever

612 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:02:30pm

re: #597 Ojoe

Palin will pull women's votes big time too.

you are so wrong it can't abide the telling

Palin will pull GOP women, and that's it. palin's negatives are epic. Her negative numbers are apocalyptic. My mother, who is real middle america, raised in Kansas, not political at all, listened to Palin for three minutes around the 2008 campaign and said "this woman is fucking annoying." And turned the TV off.

613 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:03:00pm

re: #611 HoosierHoops

Hey you! The garage is almost packed..Kindof..What a mess..I have 20 Basketballs floating around there is odd packaging that isn't going to work..
Ludwig..Thank you so much for your comments about me being Adopted by the tribe... I am deeply humbled...You have no idea what that means to me...I wasn't adopted until I was 12 years old...Nobody ever wanted this reject.. God has been kind to me...And if God's people ever want to adopt me.. I'm all for it...
Thank you Ludwig...
It meant alot to me...
/Wiping tear from eye..Anybody want to fight about it?
//except the stalkers...I'm over them..Forever

and now comes the clipping part...

614 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:03:57pm

re: #611 HoosierHoops

Hey you! The garage is almost packed..Kindof..What a mess..I have 20 Basketballs floating around there is odd packaging that isn't going to work..
Ludwig..Thank you so much for your comments about me being Adopted by the tribe... I am deeply humbled...You have no idea what that means to me...I wasn't adopted until I was 12 years old...Nobody ever wanted this reject.. God has been kind to me...And if God's people ever want to adopt me.. I'm all for it...
Thank you Ludwig...
It meant alot to me...
/Wiping tear from eye..Anybody want to fight about it?
//except the stalkers...I'm over them..Forever

Hoops, with sincere intent, you are welcome at my Shabbos table anytime. Besides both me and Miss S. are great cooks.

615 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:04:05pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

You're a dick. :P

616 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:04:53pm

re: #612 WindUpBird

you are so wrong it can't abide the telling

Palin will pull GOP women, and that's it. palin's negatives are epic. Her negative numbers are apocalyptic. My mother, who is real middle america, raised in Kansas, not political at all, listened to Palin for three minutes around the 2008 campaign and said "this woman is fucking annoying." And turned the TV off.

I smell your fear...

617 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:05:07pm

re: #613 brookly red

and now comes the clipping part...

Don't mess with me!
*wink*
/I had to post that for Ludwig...

618 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:05:39pm

re: #613 brookly red

and now comes the clipping part...

Well you can look at it as a detriment or an enhancement.

I can tell you personally that the idea of having to fold that skin back to clean out garbage from underneath kinda grosses me out.

619 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:06:27pm

re: #618 LudwigVanQuixote

Well you can look at it as a detriment or an enhancement.

I can tell you personally that the idea of having to fold that skin back to clean out garbage from underneath kinda grosses me out.

well I don't have to but I was born into the tribe...

620 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:06:51pm

re: #618 LudwigVanQuixote

Why are we talking about this? I mean, really, is this what it's come to?/

621 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:07:00pm

Speaking of Miss. S, we are rather seriously taking about making this permanent. I will keep you updated.

622 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:07:40pm

re: #491 Alouette

O.M.G.

Worthless Israeli leftist turd moans about what a useless cowardly putz he is.

I couldn't read past the fourth paragraph without wanting to reach into my computer and bitchslap the guy's photo.

623 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:08:06pm

re: #621 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of Miss. S, we are rather seriously taking about making this permanent. I will keep you updated.

does she realize the repercussions?
jus kidding
best

624 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:08:39pm

re: #621 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of Miss. S, we are rather seriously taking about making this permanent. I will keep you updated.

Engagement gifts at the Zionist Mall.

625 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:09:03pm

re: #505 ryannon

This might work.

Gulf still exists around me... thought BP merged with Amoco.

626 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:09:29pm

re: #616 brookly red

Do you really want her in any way?

Or is this just a 'sides' thing?

627 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:09:51pm

re: #613 brookly red

and now comes the clipping part...

1-2-3-foreskin!

(Year One)

628 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:10:39pm

re: #622 alexknyc

I couldn't read past the fourth paragraph without wanting to reach into my computer and bitchslap the guy's photo.

It is astonishing how difficult it can be to combat the desire to do that. I can personally attest to reaching a stupid saturation point where I was rather perpetually testy. After a while though the stupid is something you come to expect and it takes substantially more to get that sort of rise. However, for reasonable people, encountering that sort of lunacy daily when you blog or comment regularly on blogs, simply gets to be too much - until you realize that yes indeed the world is full of assholes who are really stupid and really annoying - and you just sort of accept it. I promise that more than once I blew my stack.

629 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:13:56pm

re: #626 windsagio

Do you really want her in any way?

Or is this just a 'sides' thing?

exactly a sides thing, Obama ran on not being Bush...

whoever runs on not being Obama will win. You don't actually read my posts.

630 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:14:58pm

re: #629 brookly red

I really do :P

I just think your wrong, and your (word I don't wanna say) is blinding you here :D

631 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:15:05pm

re: #581 wrenchwench

OMG! Rush comes out against Rand Paul.

.

.

/

Ya got me.

632 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:15:47pm

re: #624 Alouette

Engagement gifts at the Zionist Mall.

You are a sweetheart. If it comes to it though, I have a ring already. I was very close to my grandmother. When she got sick, she gave the ring - it has been in the family for some time. She told me to give it to the right girl. She apologized that she would never meet her.

Grandma was a brilliant lady. I would not give that ring to just anyone, and had I bought it myself, I would see it as only money.

Even though the ring is quite nice and has a very large stone (I have no idea how much it actually costs, but it is blue white, flawless and over 1.5 carats) given its significance, the right girl would not care if it came from a cracker-jack box.

633 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:17:30pm

re: #598 Gus 802

Wait! I have an idea for the replacement band for Rand Paul!

Prussian Blue

I hear they have a great White Album

/

634 RogueOne  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:42pm

re: #544 brookly red

not Palin votes... anti Obama votes big difference. These days we don't vote for we vote against.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

635 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:42pm

re: #622 alexknyc

I couldn't read past the fourth paragraph without wanting to reach into my computer and bitchslap the guy's photo.

My response to Udi: "Do you feel better now after that moral chin-up?"

636 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:22:16pm

Moving upstairs
This thread has gone the speed of mute
/

637 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:26:30pm

re: #635 Cato the Elder

lol I was thinking the same thing haha

638 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:27:58pm

re: #621 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of Miss. S, we are rather seriously taking about making this permanent. I will keep you updated.

Hooray!! Image: bells.png

639 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:31:14pm

re: #432 Charles

Also by the way -- I think Israel's making another mistake right now by trying to link the Islamists on the ship to Al Qaeda, unless they can absolutely prove it.

I'm not saying I disbelieve the claims -- but even as someone who considers it a possibility, I think it would look really bad to make that kind of accusation without solid evidence. I hope they show that evidence and don't leave it the way it stands -- as just an accusation.

That claim caught my eye as well. Not impossible, but I have a feeling this would be considered small potatos to al Q.

640 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:59:47pm

re: #324 Jimmah

BP unveils new 'image recovery' ad campaign:


[Video]/

I've goota run, but the one thing I want to ask folks to do is to hope that BP survives this. Assholes they may be, but they pay for my parent's health care, and that's important. For that reason, if none other, I do not wish them failure.re: #495 alexknyc

Maybe they'll bring back Amoco

Upding, because my father worked for Amoco in their IT department for more than 30 years.

641 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #209 LudwigVanQuixote

The only good news abut the Gaza incident is that as more and more footage - including security cam footage from the ships themselves is coming out, it is becoming harder and harder for the left to have an outrageous outrage.

BBC has relatively few words on the topic today. I am sure that they are disappointed.

Spot on. al-Beeb will find the subject no longer newsworthy once they can no longer demonise the Jews.

642 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:30:08pm

re: #217 ralphieboy

What you guys seem to be advocating is nothing less than a "Final Solution", and I can imagine that the Israelis somehow could just not bring themselves to pull something like that off...

What disgusting tripe, Germany and Japan were fought until the point of unconditional surrender without the Allies resorting to any sort of "Final Solution." How vile and ignorant of you to use that particular phrase when talking about Israel.

643 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:13pm

re: #3 JasonA

There's a liability cap for that...

From what I understand, if BP if found negligent, then that cap does not exist.


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