Israel’s Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza

Middle East • Views: 7,034

The Canada-Israel Committee has an interesting breakdown and analysis of the massive amounts of humanitarian aid regularly delivered to Gaza by Israel: Facts Beyond the Spin: Israel Delivers Massive Aid to Gaza.

Despite the fact that Israel publicly offered to inspect and then transfer the flotilla’s aid to Gaza several days prior to the incident, many opponents of Israel are now making wild accusations that humanitarian supplies are being blocked from entering Gaza.

The facts put these charges to rest – just take a look at how much aid Israel regularly delivers to Gaza, and what it means in real terms for Gazans:

• Over one million tons of humanitarian supplies were delivered by Israel to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months – that’s equal to nearly one ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza.

In the first quarter of 2010 alone (January-March), Israel delivered 94,500 tons of supplies to Gaza. It’s very easy to miss what that actually means for the people of Gaza. The breakdown includes:

• 40,000 tons of wheat – which is equal to 53 million loaves of bread;

• 2,760 tons of rice – which equals 69 million servings;

• 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear – the equivalent weight of 3.6 million pairs of jeans; and

• 553 tons of milk powder and baby food – equivalent to over 3.1 million days of formula for an average six-month-old baby.

This reflects a long-term effort on the part of Israel to deliver a massive and comprehensive supply of aid to Gaza’s civilians, while restricting the ability of Hamas to import missiles that have been launched at the cities of southern Israel. In 2009 alone:

• During the Muslim holy days of Ramadan and Eid al-Adha, Israel shipped some 11,000 head of cattle into Gaza – enough to provide 8.8 million meals of beef;

• More than 3,000 tons of hypochlorite were delivered by Israel to Gaza for water purification purposes – that’s 60 billion gallons of purified water; and

• Israel brought some 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicine into Gaza – a weight equivalent to over 360,000 260-piece mobile trauma first aid kits.

Read the full statistics and judge for yourself. Humanitarian crisis in Gaza? Not according to the facts.

Jump to bottom

520 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:03:53pm

Charles, thank you so much for keeping us informed with all the facts that are necessary to counteract the idiotic narrative of “Gaza is starving.” I hope that the people reading this over at True/Slant get some sense knocked into them. If not, I can let you borrow my marble rolling pin.

2 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:05:17pm

Israel is the best friend the Palestinian people have.

Hamas and their foreign funders are the worst enemy the Palestinian people have.

3 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:06:37pm

Release Gilad Shalit.

4 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:07:57pm

Wonder if there’s a number out there of how much money Israel spends to keep alive a population that wants them dead.

5 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:07:57pm

Never let the facts interfere with The Truth

/

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:08:51pm

Yup, just like the Nazis./

$%^#%@!

7 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:10:20pm

But what about the massive humanitarian need for gas masks, body armor, knives and metal poles?

8 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:11:01pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But what about the massive humanitarian need for gas masks, body armor, knives and metal poles?

Deadly Weapons of Peace!

9 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:11:10pm

re: #4 JasonA

Wonder if there’s a number out there of how much money Israel spends to keep alive a population that wants them dead.

At the risk of beating a dead horse…

Hamas != Palestinians in general. The population of the west bank / gaza is not a monolithic entity. Some are assholes who want war, some just want the madness to end.

10 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:12:18pm

re: #1 Alouette

Charles, thank you so much for keeping us informed with all the facts that are necessary to counteract the idiotic narrative of “Gaza is starving.” I hope that the people reading this over at True/Slant get some sense knocked into them. If not, I can let you borrow my marble rolling pin.

True there is no starvation. The suffering in Gaza mostly comes from poverty because they spend most of their efforts fighting with their neighbors instead of creating a stable environment for commerce.

11 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:13:48pm

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

At the risk of beating a dead horse…

Hamas != Palestinians in general. The population of the west bank / gaza is not a monolithic entity. Some are assholes who want war, some just want the madness to end.

and on the other hand, Hamas always likes to remind everyone that they are the democratically elected Gaza government.

12 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:13:59pm

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

We’ve been discussing this for days and I’m tired of constantly spelling it out.

13 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:14:16pm

None of this should be surprising. Israel builds infrastructure and Hamas destroys it. Hamas claims that there’s a humanitarian crisis, but it’s one of their own creation.

End the real occupation of Gaza - get Hamas out!

The Palestinians would be so much better off for it.

14 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:15:27pm

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

Except that polls routinely show strong support for Hamas and their genocidal statements towards Israel’s destruction.

And those who don’t follow Hamas, are following Fatah that has a similar core doctrine. Or they’re moving towards even more extreme terror ideologies like al Qaeda and the Salafists.

15 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:16:14pm

Did a quick comparison of one statistic mentioned.

From the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (link above):

Electronic life

About 20% of the population in Gaza owns a personal computer - this is more than Portugal, Brazil, Saudi Arabia or Russia. They have access to ADSL and dial-up Internet service, provided by one of four providers.

Now from Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, 2004:

Computers:

Data showed that the percentage of household own computers amounted to 26.4% (28.4% in the West Bank and 22.5% in Gaza Strip). 29.5% of household the main reason for having computer is to use for the teaching and study of family members (not children) while 27.2% for teaching children of family.

16 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:19:59pm

But do they ever deliver pie to Gaza? I bet not!

17 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:20:01pm

re: #15 Gus 802

Did a quick comparison of one statistic mentioned.

From the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (link above):

THE HORROR!

18 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:21:00pm

re: #15 Gus 802

They have access to ADSL and dial-up Internet service

No high-speed cable connection? OH THE HUMANITY!!!

19 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:21:33pm

re: #18 JasonA

No high-speed cable connection? OH THE HUMANITY!!!

Dial up for you!

/

20 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:21:51pm

re: #18 JasonA

No high-speed cable connection? OH THE HUMANITY!!!

Won’t someone think of the children?!

21 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:22:32pm

re: #18 JasonA

No high-speed cable connection? OH THE HUMANITY!!!

MY GUILD IS RAIDING ULDUAR IN 30 MINUTES AND I AM STUCK ON A LOADING SCREEN! DEATH TO THE ZIONIST PIGDOGS!

22 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:23:13pm

re: #19 Gus 802

Dial up for you!

/

Next the crooked Israelis are going to force them to use AOL!/

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:23:22pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

MY GUILD IS RAIDING ULDUAR IN 30 MINUTES AND I AM STUCK ON A LOADING SCREEN! DEATH TO THE ZIONIST PIGDOGS!

I think that guy may have been my husband’s healer last night.

24 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:23:34pm

re: #14 lawhawk

Except that polls routinely show strong support for Hamas and their genocidal statements towards Israel’s destruction.

And those who don’t follow Hamas, are following Fatah that has a similar core doctrine. Or they‘re moving towards even more extreme terror ideologies like al Qaeda and the Salafists.

This perfectly illustrates how this conflict is a least as much a political one as it is military. As such, words matter, perceptions matter, and nuance matters.

As for your second paragraph, your pronouns are doing some heavy lifting. Stating that the population of gaza / west bank / palestine is of one mind is like saying there were no dissenters in Nazi Germany, there are no gays in Iran, and everybody in North Korea loves the dear leader. It’s an interesting talking point, but in the end, it is nothing more than boilerplate.

Go back in time several years to the start of the Iraq war, and you will find Fozzie Bear absolutely screaming at his television at the idiocy of the invasion. Do I share the blame for Bush’s mistakes, even though I never voted for him? Does someone who voted for McCain share blame for Obama’s mistakes?

The majority != the totality. There are good people in the middle east who aren’t Jews. Attempting to lump everyone there into a common group is a very familiar propaganda tactic. It nearly always precedes doing horrific things. Don’t go there, please.

25 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:23:50pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

MY GUILD IS RAIDING ULDUAR IN 30 MINUTES AND I AM STUCK ON A LOADING SCREEN! DEATH TO THE ZIONIST PIGDOGS!

I’m
.
.
.
still
.
.
.
laughing

26 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:24:18pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

MY GUILD IS RAIDING ULDUAR IN 30 MINUTES AND I AM STUCK ON A LOADING SCREEN! DEATH TO THE ZIONIST PIGDOGS!

Go raid ICC, noob. //

27 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:24:20pm

Moonbat holding up a sign saying ISRAEL GENOCIDE

The world’s most EPIC FAIL GENOCIDE

28 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:24:59pm

re: #25 JasonA

I’m
.
.
.
still
.
.
.
laughing

Need or Greed rolls are another tool of Zionist Oppression.

29 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:25:34pm

Master looter ftw. Communist raiding is how it’s done.

30 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:25:54pm

re: #26 Fozzie Bear

Go raid ICC, noob. //

Weekly raid dungeon man, got to get those extra badges.

31 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:26:09pm

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Need or Greed rolls are another tool of Zionist Oppression.

THEY ALL PLAY WARLOCKS! WHY DO THE PICK NEED FOR ALL THE GOOD ARMOR?!? /

32 Grumpy  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:26:30pm

South Africa withdraws ambassador from Israel
Ishmael Coovadia (a muslim) was the ambassador to the Jewish state of Israel.
A bit like Germany sending one of the decendants of Adolf H as their friendly emmissary.
But thats south africa - a country of third world stumblers, trying to play on the world stage - embarrasing (and I’m not resorting to any of the sterotypes here)
Like who gives a continental
Don’t buy any crap from here (its probably suspect anyway)
Israel forever
Zionism lives
This from the arse end of the African continent

33 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:10pm

I had no idea so many policy wonks are also WoW nerds. This is awesome.

34 ShaunP  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:21pm

re: #22 JasonA

Next the crooked Israelis are going to force them to use AOL!/

That really would be inhumane…

35 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:34pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

This perfectly illustrates how this conflict is a least as much a political one as it is military. As such, words matter, perceptions matter, and nuance matters.

As for your second paragraph, your pronouns are doing some heavy lifting. Stating that the population of gaza / west bank / palestine is of one mind is like saying there were no dissenters in Nazi Germany, there are no gays in Iran, and everybody in North Korea loves the dear leader. It’s an interesting talking point, but in the end, it is nothing more than boilerplate.

Go back in time several years to the start of the Iraq war, and you will find Fozzie Bear absolutely screaming at his television at the idiocy of the invasion. Do I share the blame for Bush’s mistakes, even though I never voted for him? Does someone who voted for McCain share blame for Obama’s mistakes?

The majority != the totality. There are good people in the middle east who aren’t Jews. Attempting to lump everyone there into a common group is a very familiar propaganda tactic. It nearly always precedes doing horrific things. Don’t go there, please.

Oh, of course there were plenty of dissenters in Nazi Germany…they just didn’t say squat until after the war was over, when suddenly everybody was a “Good German.” Might have had something to do with the fact that any who spoke up about their opposition while the Reich was still in power had a tendency to end up dead in the streets by way of “lead poisoning,” courtesy of the Gestapo. Likewise there may be plenty of those who disagree with Hamas and want peace with Israel, only Hamas has a word for them: “collaborators.” And the vocal ones have a life expectancy measured in hours and minutes.

36 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:52pm

Moonbat at True/Slant desperately spinning, spinning, spinning

So, no building supplies, despite regular bulldozing of homes by Israeli and Hamas forces.

No water, despite 50% of residents of Gaza lacking access to fresh, potable water.

And, also, this isn’t a list of “aid”; these are things imported into Gaza because Gazans paid for them, frequently at inflated prices and purchased from Israeli businesses that benefit from an enforced monopoly since Gaza’s ability to engage in agriculture and manufacturing has been destroyed by the Israeli blockade.

Gah.

37 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:57pm

re: #22 JasonA

Next the crooked Israelis are going to force them to use AOL!/

For the curious the PA put out a pamphlet here:

[Link: www.pcbs.gov.ps…]

Doesn’t mention connection types.

38 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:29:11pm

re: #33 Fozzie Bear

I had no idea so many policy wonks are also WoW nerds. This is awesome.

I play Kingdom of Loathing myself. Just never caught the WoW meme though I know a number of people who have.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:29:12pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

This perfectly illustrates how this conflict is a least as much a political one as it is military. As such, words matter, perceptions matter, and nuance matters.

As for your second paragraph, your pronouns are doing some heavy lifting. Stating that the population of gaza / west bank / palestine is of one mind is like saying there were no dissenters in Nazi Germany, there are no gays in Iran, and everybody in North Korea loves the dear leader. It’s an interesting talking point, but in the end, it is nothing more than boilerplate.

Go back in time several years to the start of the Iraq war, and you will find Fozzie Bear absolutely screaming at his television at the idiocy of the invasion. Do I share the blame for Bush’s mistakes, even though I never voted for him? Does someone who voted for McCain share blame for Obama’s mistakes?

The majority != the totality. There are good people in the middle east who aren’t Jews. Attempting to lump everyone there into a common group is a very familiar propaganda tactic. It nearly always precedes doing horrific things. Don’t go there, please.

I hear much of what you are saying, but I would also say that this is a nuance which is, in this group, generally understood.

That said, Hamas has successfully created an effective monoculture in Gaza, to the point where I feel that I can talk about the Strip as a functioning unit that hates Israel without feeling that I am personally insulting Mustafa Khalidi, the non-bloody-minded cabbie who just want to move to Detroit and get away from these whack jobs.

I wouldn’t speak of Arabs, or even Palestinians in general, in such generalized terms, for various reasons.

40 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:29:28pm

re: #29 Fozzie Bear

Master looter ftw. Communist raiding is how it’s done.

As long as I’m the loot master.

Greatest D&D moment, about 5 minutes after I had slipped the DM a slip of paper.

“Whew, that Dragon was a hell of a fight. Hey Kragar, what are you doing?”

“I’m not there.”

“Shit, we all run back to the cave.”

“OK, you see Kragar coming out of the cave with several large bags.”

“Hi guys, I got a few things left over for the rest of you.”

41 Hieronymus Bosch  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:29:32pm

The humanitarian impact of Israel’s blockade on Gaza:

Restricted imports of livestock, seeds and seedlings, plastic piping, iron bars for animal shelters, water pumps, filters and irrigation pipes, fishing nets, engine spare parts, veterinary drugs and cement are decimating Gaza’s agriculture and fishing industries.

Operation ‘Cast Lead’ caused some $268 million in damages, according to the United Nations. Israeli bombardments caused huge damage to already depleted infrastructure. Restrictions on imports of cement, other building materials and heavy lifting equipment are hampering efforts to rebuild vital roads, health and education services and power supplies.

Electricity shortages mean Gaza’s population experiences rolling blackouts of up to 12 hours every day, according to an OCHA report, exacerbating the already difficult living conditions.

Many specialised treatments, such as for complex heart surgery and certain types of cancer, are not available in Gaza and patients are referred for treatment to hospitals outside the territory. But many patients have had their applications for exit permits denied or delayed by Israeli authorities and have missed their appointments. Some have died while waiting for referral, the World Health Organisation said in a January statement.

There are often shortages of key supplies and drugs.

A poverty survey carried out by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) showed that the number of refugees living in abject poverty since the onset of the blockade in 2007 has tripled. UNRWA found that 300,000 Palestine refugees live in conditions of abject poverty, from 100,000 in 2007. These families are completely unable to secure access to food and lack the means to purchase even the most basic items such as soap, school stationary and safe drinking water.

42 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:30:04pm

re: #34 ShaunP

That really would be inhumane…

The protest signs are almost done.

“Death to America
.
.
(scribbled at the bottom)
Online!”

43 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:31:05pm

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

At the risk of beating a dead horse…

Hamas != Palestinians in general. The population of the west bank / gaza is not a monolithic entity. Some are assholes who want war, some just want the madness to end.

They won.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:31:13pm

re: #32 Grumpy


Ishmael Coovadia (a muslim) was the ambassador to the Jewish state of Israel.
A bit like Germany sending one of the decendants of Adolf H as their friendly emmissary.

My God! Do you realize that the German ambassador to Israel is a GERMAN?????!!!! How offensive!!!!!

Dude, get real. “A muslim” is not the equivalent of “a descendent of Hitler”.

45 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:31:30pm

re: #31 JasonA

THEY ALL PLAY WARLOCKS! WHY DO THE PICK NEED FOR ALL THE GOOD ARMOR?!? /

WHY THE HELL IS THE F’ING HUNTER ROLLING FOR +STR DPS NECK?

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:31:46pm

re: #33 Fozzie Bear

I had no idea so many policy wonks are also WoW nerds. This is awesome.

My husband, OTOH, is just a WOW nerd, and hates politics.

47 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:32:51pm

re: #37 Gus 802

Ah here we go:

Dial-up 15.5 percent
Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) 26.4 percent

This would be for Gaza. From Table 10: Percentage Distribution of Households Having Internet at Home by Type of Internet Connection and Region, 2009. Page 36.

[Link: www.pcbs.gov.ps…]

48 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:32:51pm

re: #35 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh, of course there were plenty of dissenters in Nazi Germany…they just didn’t say squat until after the war was over, when suddenly everybody was a “Good German.” Might have had something to do with the fact that any who spoke up about their opposition while the Reich was still in power had a tendency to end up dead in the streets by way of “lead poisoning,” courtesy of the Gestapo. Likewise there may be plenty of those who disagree with Hamas and want peace with Israel, only Hamas has a word for them: “collaborators.” And the vocal ones have a life expectancy measured in hours and minutes.

That’s part and parcel of my point. If the truth could somehow be determined, I would bet support for Hamas is alot lower than it seems from the outside, and I would further bet that the elections there are anything but free and fair. Hamas is the occupier in Gaza, but that isn’t at all the same thing as Hamas being synonymous with the population there.

I bristle when I see the entire populace of that area painted with one brush, because I know for a fact that it just isn’t true, and because that is exactly the way Israelis are characterized by their enemies.

49 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:32:59pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband, OTOH, is just a WOW nerd, and hates politics.

My wife forces me to play because she doesn’t trust other healers.

50 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:32:59pm

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

At the risk of beating a dead horse…

Hamas != Palestinians in general. The population of the west bank / gaza is not a monolithic entity. Some are assholes who want war, some just want the madness to end.

Sadly though, Fozzie, those who do not want war are in the distinct minority in Gaza. Most people there want the war to continue until Israel is destroyed.

51 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:33:32pm

re: #37 Gus 802

For the curious the PA put out a pamphlet here:

[Link: www.pcbs.gov.ps…]

Doesn’t mention connection types.

This is interesting. 80.4% of households have a sat dish? 81 have a mobile line? I need to read more of it, but I’m already starting to feel a lot of empathy for their plight./

52 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:35:24pm

re: #35 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There were plenty of Germans who did say squat— like the White Roses—or who felt that, even though the Nazis were odious, they owed service to their country. Just as not everyone fighting for the Confederacy was doing so out of a desire to own black people.

I’d say that the problem is people who constantly talk about the situation as Palestine vs. Israel, when it is not. It is Israel vs. the modern Muslim world at large, in terms of political entities. There are probably millions of Muslims who are basically apolitical, who don’t give an actual crap about the situation; it doesn’t make it incorrect to note that Israel’s enemies include every Muslim nation. It is incorrect to claim that every resident of every Muslim nation is to blame.

The Palestinians have been subjected to a relentless propaganda campaign against Israel and Jews. A lot of that propaganda originates in Saudi Arabia— our allies.

53 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:35:31pm

re: #51 JasonA

This is interesting. 80.4% of households have a sat dish? 81 have a mobile line? I need to read more of it, but I’m already starting to feel a lot of empathy for their plight./

You can get a lot of other stats here:

Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics

That’s the PA’s official stats. You know since most crunchies will say that the MFA is lying.

54 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #41 Hieronymus Bosch

Did you even read what Charles posted?

55 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:36:44pm

re: #27 Alouette

Moonbat holding up a sign saying ISRAEL GENOCIDE

The world’s most EPIC FAIL GENOCIDE

What’s “GENOCIDA”?

56 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:10pm

re: #55 MandyManners

What’s “GENOCIDA”?

Spanish for Genocide

57 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:11pm

re: #41 Hieronymus Bosch

Care to cite the figures on poverty in the Palestinian refugee camps in the Muslim nations?

58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:16pm
• 553 tons of milk powder and baby food – equivalent to over 3.1 million days of formula for an average six-month-old baby.

How many babies are there? Anybody have a clue?

59 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:52pm

re: #57 Obdicut

Care to cite the figures on poverty in the Palestinian refugee camps in the Muslim nations?

FTFY

60 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:52pm

re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just one huuuuuuuge baby.

61 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:38:34pm

re: #4 JasonA

Wonder if there’s a number out there of how much money Israel spends to keep alive a population that wants them dead.

It is indeed illogical.

62 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:39:00pm

re: #35 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh, of course there were plenty of dissenters in Nazi Germany…they just didn’t say squat until after the war was over, when suddenly everybody was a “Good German.” Might have had something to do with the fact that any who spoke up about their opposition while the Reich was still in power had a tendency to end up dead in the streets by way of “lead poisoning,” courtesy of the Gestapo. Likewise there may be plenty of those who disagree with Hamas and want peace with Israel, only Hamas has a word for them: “collaborators.” And the vocal ones have a life expectancy measured in hours and minutes.

And, a short walk off a tall building.

63 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:39:41pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband, OTOH, is just a WOW nerd, and hates politics.

Never played it, but I love the South Park episode about it.

64 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:39:57pm

re: #24 Fozzie Bear

In North Korea the government runs the show as a totalitarian dictatorship. Doesn’t matter what the North Koreans think or want. /sidenote

In Gaza, Hamas eliminated the political rival Fatah in a bloody civil war complete with throwing “collaborators” and Fatah thugs off rooftops in a very public display of defenestration.

During Cast Lead, Hamas thugs went through Gaza hospitals looking for people they thought gave up Hamas positions to the IDF and shot them.

Hamas operates out of Gaza as a totalitarian entity or a gang hellbent on total control and will collude with other terror outfits as necessary to keep the pressure off Hamas (as part of the triangle offense of terror against Israel).

The West Bank is controlled by the Palestinian Authority/Fatah under the Oslo Accords and other agreements and the situation there is more fluid.

But the majority in Gaza are supporting Hamas and their genocidal rhetoric. There isn’t some silent majority that can be called upon to institute a peaceful society in Gaza because those living there have fostered an environment that rewards jihad and war against Israel and refuses to accept a 2-state solution.

65 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:40:06pm

re: #36 Alouette

Moonbat at True/Slant desperately spinning, spinning, spinning


Gah.

What? No mention about the sewer system?

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:40:11pm

How much aid is given to the Palistinians (I’m not counting how much stuff is sold) from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc?

Anybody know? More than Israel?

67 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:40:40pm

re: #41 Hieronymus Bosch

Funny how many of the impacting supplies for industry and agriculture have secondary applications in the explosives and rocketry fields.

68 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:41:10pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Okay, here’s their problem:

Percentage Distribution of Persons (10 Years and Over) by the Main Purpose of Using the Internet, 2006

Electronic Commerce: .9%

Ebay. Solve your “poverty” and find great deals at the same time.
After you get rid of Hamas so you can actually trade with the rest of the world, of course.

69 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:41:12pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WHY THE HELL IS THE F’ING HUNTER ROLLING FOR +STR DPS NECK?

I have never done that……. *snicker*

Earic
Suramar

70 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:41:37pm

re: #41 Hieronymus Bosch

Oh, go fuck yourself.

71 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:41:42pm

re: #64 lawhawk

In North Korea the government runs the show as a totalitarian dictatorship. Doesn’t matter what the North Koreans think or want. /sidenote

In Gaza, Hamas eliminated the political rival Fatah in a bloody civil war complete with throwing “collaborators” and Fatah thugs off rooftops in a very public display of defenestration.

During Cast Lead, Hamas thugs went through Gaza hospitals looking for people they thought gave up Hamas positions to the IDF and shot them.

Hamas operates out of Gaza as a totalitarian entity or a gang hellbent on total control and will collude with other terror outfits as necessary to keep the pressure off Hamas (as part of the triangle offense of terror against Israel).

The West Bank is controlled by the Palestinian Authority/Fatah under the Oslo Accords and other agreements and the situation there is more fluid.

But the majority in Gaza are supporting Hamas and their genocidal rhetoric. There isn’t some silent majority that can be called upon to institute a peaceful society in Gaza because those living there have fostered an environment that rewards jihad and war against Israel and refuses to accept a 2-state solution.

Concur. Hamas is the greatest malfactor, but even if they were gone Gaza still would not want peace.

72 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:41:59pm

re: #64 lawhawk

In Gaza, Hamas eliminated the political rival Fatah in a bloody civil war complete with throwing “collaborators” and Fatah thugs off rooftops in a very public display of defenestration.


That’s the second time “defenestrate” has been used on LGF today.

73 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:42:37pm

re: #68 JasonA

Okay, here’s their problem:

Percentage Distribution of Persons (10 Years and Over) by the Main Purpose of Using the Internet, 2006

Electronic Commerce: .9%

Ebay. Solve your “poverty” and find great deals at the same time.
After you get rid of Hamas so you can actually trade with the rest of the world, of course.

Hamas and Fatah are Palestine’s Castro. I think it will be a long time before those thick heads ever wake up and smell the coffee.

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:42:38pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Concur. Hamas is the greatest malfactor, but even if they were gone Gaza still would not want peace.

Don’t know a lot about it, but it appears to me that Hamas is there because Gaza does not want peace.

75 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:42:46pm

re: #56 Alouette

Spanish for Genocide

I thought it was bad spelling. Like “Juice”.

76 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:43:10pm

re: #61 Spare O’Lake

It is indeed illogical.

Spock, is that you?

77 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:43:22pm

some of the new folks are a little dumb, eh?

78 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:44:05pm

re: #77 cliffster

some of the new folks are a little dumb, eh?

Of course, a certain percentage of new folks are old folks.

79 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:44:19pm

re: #77 cliffster

Charles has been showing a lot of patience lately.

80 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:44:25pm

re: #64 lawhawk

in Gaza because those living there have fostered an environment that rewards jihad and war against Israel and refuses to accept a 2-state solution.

Why are you leaving out those who are not living there who have fostered that environment? The environment of antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment is in no way special to Palestine.

Portraying this as Israel vs. Palestine misses the forest for the trees.

Hamas does not operate as a totalitarian entity. They act like a bunch of thugs. They do not have the power to operate as a totalitarian state, they are not nearly well-organized enough to be called totalitarian. They are, as you rightly say, a criminal gang. They aspire to be totalitarian.

81 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:45:03pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of course, a certain percentage of new folks are old folks.

Heh, indeed.

82 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:45:07pm

re: #79 JasonA

Charles has been showing a lot of patience lately.

and a little more rope…and a little more rope…and now we have a noose.

83 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:45:54pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

and a little more rope…and a little more rope…and now we have a noose.

Oh I have no doubt that the man’s keeping score.

84 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:46:02pm

Hey folks I could use some help. How could I best show how full of crap Juan Cole and his Infowhatever is? I’d like to fisk his latest on the Israeli raid. What garbage. Claiming Israel used photos dated last year…

85 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:46:13pm

re: #75 MandyManners

I thought it was bad spelling. Like “Juice”.

Netanyahu and Hitler are the Sam

(Is that like Stan?)

86 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:47:04pm

Now hold on a second here.

You know as a Jew there is the old joke that 2 jews get into an argument and that there are 3 opinions.

From what I have been seeing, there is almost no dissent allowed in what really is a big Israeli cluster-F*

The Gazans aren’t starving, but they aren’t thriving either. That is intentional from an Israeli security perspective, but it is counter productive in the long term. They can’t buy weapons, but they can’t grow their economy by exporting products or receive imports from other countries. Things are going to continue to deteriorate and since Hamas’ election and takeover of Gaza, neither Egypt nor the Fatah West Bank is going to deal with them, therefore it is going to be Israel’s problem for a long time.

87 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:47:47pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

and a little more rope…and a little more rope…and now we have a noose.

No, not yet. Mandy’s here so before a nooses and made Mandy will force the trolls to perform her ‘rope trick’. :D

88 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:48:21pm

re: #85 Alouette

I love how the “e” was written in. It’s so faint it’s barely noticeable. Nice font, though. In fact, it’s much more aesthetically pleasing than most tea party signs. Better spelling on the whole, too.

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:48:29pm

re: #77 cliffster

Heh.

90 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:49:01pm

re: #88 JasonA

Their crazies have much better penmanship than our crazies.

91 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:49:04pm

re: #85 Alouette

Netanyahu and Hitler are the Sam

(Is that like Stan?)

My first that is that Hitler and Netanyahu would both like you to eat green eggs & ham.

Yeah, sign fail.

92 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:49:40pm

re: #86 golgoth

The Gazans aren’t starving, but they aren’t thriving either. That is intentional from an Israeli security perspective,

Why do you believe this?

93 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:50:03pm

re: #86 golgoth

are you one of the dumb people I was talking about?

94 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:50:08pm

re: #79 JasonA

Charles has been showing a lot of patience lately.

No kidding, I couldn’t do it. If I ran a blog, I would wield the Ban Stick like a drunken, one-eyed monkey.

95 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:50:18pm

re: #85 Alouette

Netanyahu and Hitler are the Sam

(Is that like Stan?)

Is there some sort of business that cranks out those signs?

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:50:47pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

That’s part and parcel of my point. If the truth could somehow be determined, I would bet support for Hamas is alot lower than it seems from the outside, and I would further bet that the elections there are anything but free and fair. Hamas is the occupier in Gaza, but that isn’t at all the same thing as Hamas being synonymous with the population there.

I bristle when I see the entire populace of that area painted with one brush, because I know for a fact that it just isn’t true, and because that is exactly the way Israelis are characterized by their enemies.

No offense, but I think you engage in wishful thinking. Since seizing control of Gaza, Hamas has a very public spectacle of going through and weeding out any dissent, overt or otherwise. Men even suspected of not being totally supportive of the cause have been shot, beheaded, or walked off the side of tall buildings as a means of thinning the herd. There may be many who don’t agree with Hamas 100%, but they agree enough not to say squat, at least so long as they want to continue converting O2 to CO2.

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:51:39pm

re: #94 Slumbering Behemoth

No kidding, I couldn’t do it. If I ran a blog, I would wield the Ban Stick like a drunken, one-eyed monkey.

Well, you know what they say about monkies without depth perception…

98 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:52:17pm

re: #86 golgoth

With all due respect, you’re full of shit.

99 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:52:30pm

re: #86 golgoth

Well gee, It almost sounds like their choosing terrorists at their elected form of government had far reaching consequences which they failed to take into account.

100 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:52:46pm

re: #80 Obdicut

Well, if I started getting into the nuances of Hamas, proxy armies for the likes of Iran and Syria, media malfeasance that gives propaganda wins to terror groups, human rights groups that take a blind eye to terror but slam Israel at every turn, and my response would go from pithy to verbose.

However, what Hamas is doing, or trying to do in Gaza does defy a neat description and that discussion had come up previously. Gaza is not occupied by Israel; Hamas is in control - but it is not a declared state. I would say it’s a failed state. Hamas is a legitimate representative of the Palestinians as being duly elected by the Palestinians at their last election. They are the sole representatives in Gaza after their civil war with Fatah. That puts them in de facto control of Gaza. They enforce their “law” and exercise a near monopoly on the use of force (control the “security” forces, coordinate terror attacks, etc.). That puts them well ahead of a gang or warlord - a situation as in Somalia for example.

But the end results are the same - Hamas controls what’s going on in Gaza and is responsible for the situation there.

101 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:53:00pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

No, not yet. Mandy’s here so before a nooses and made Mandy will force the trolls to perform her ‘rope trick’. :D

I opted for a more direct approach.

102 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:53:14pm

re: #96 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No offense, but I think you engage in wishful thinking. Since seizing control of Gaza, Hamas has a very public spectacle of going through and weeding out any dissent, overt or otherwise. Men even suspected of not being totally supportive of the cause have been shot, beheaded, or walked off the side of tall buildings as a means of thinning the herd. There may be many who don’t agree with Hamas 100%, but they agree enough not to say squat, at least so long as they want to continue converting O2 to CO2.

You just conflated capitulation due to threat of death with support. NOT the same thing.

103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:53:51pm

My first post at True/slant:

In response to Justin Payne…

Do please remember that Gaza democratically elected a genocidal government that is in a perpetual state of war with Israel. Do please remember that the Gazans voted for war and that their government is holding an Israeli hostage. Do please remember that all of those rockets they fire are acts of war.

The fact that Israel sends any aid at all to those who are actively seeking their destruction should, in a world which was reasonable, tell anyone that the Israelis are behaving to a superior standard than any other nation in history ever has under similar circumstances. Did the U.S. or Britain send tons of aid to the Germans in either world war? Did the Chinese aid the Japanese? Did the Russians ever aid anyone? For that matter, do the Arab nations send aid to Israel after a rocket attack or a bus explosion or another terrorist action?

At what point in your deluded mind to consequences cease to matter? Did the Gazans not really mean it when they voted for a government that is sworn not only to fight until Israel is destroyed, but until all Jews everywhere are murdered? Do they have no responsibility for that? Do they share no blame at all for their failure to avoid war or their failure to ever once offer a viable peace deal?

Does Hamas have no responsibility for its numerous terrorist crimes? Do they have no responsibility for the call to destroy Israel? Do you expect that they will somehow make peace when their entire stated aim is war? What exactly do you want the Israelis to do?

Ohhh… that’s obvious. You want them to die.

The Israelis are not going away. The Israelis are fighting a war for survival, the same war that they have had to fight since their inception. The second that the Arabs actually want peace, is the second that the fighting stops. Until then, it is to their eternal credit, that despite blood curdling cries for their annihilation, they still reach out to the people of Gaza with any aid at all, let alone the massive aid they deliver.

The problem with loony folks like you is that you imagine that this is a movie or a game. The stakes are life and death. The Israelis are trying their very best to stay alive and not kill Arabs if they can avoid it. If the Israelis fought this like Americans or British or even the French would – let alone the way that Arabs or Russians or Chinese would handle such things – there would be no massive aid to terrorist governments. There would be instant response to each rocket until the rockets stopped. The water and power that Israel supplies the territory would be cut off until hostages were returned. Terrorists planting bombs would not be captured. They would simply be shot – just like the U.S. does when we catch someone planting an IED.

You are living in a hateful and delusional dream world.

104 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:53:56pm

bbiab

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:54:14pm

re: #86 golgoth

Now hold on a second here.

You know as a Jew there is the old joke that 2 jews get into an argument and that there are 3 opinions.

From what I have been seeing, there is almost no dissent allowed in what really is a big Israeli cluster-F*

The Gazans aren’t starving, but they aren’t thriving either. That is intentional from an Israeli security perspective, but it is counter productive in the long term. They can’t buy weapons, but they can’t grow their economy by exporting products or receive imports from other countries. Things are going to continue to deteriorate and since Hamas’ election and takeover of Gaza, neither Egypt nor the Fatah West Bank is going to deal with them, therefore it is going to be Israel’s problem for a long time.

You’ve only been here for about six months and haven’t posted much so let me explain things to you: LGF does and have always allowed dissent, provided that dissent is factually based. The operational maxim here is: “You have the right to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.”

As to the point you raise (which is reasonable one to bring up): The reason Israel does not let Gaza have what it would need to actually thrive is that if they allowed in such things Hamas would use them to make weapons. Build a new apartment building and Hamas would strip out much of the wiring and pipes to build rockets, killing or brutalizing anyone who objected. Hamas is the cause of those restrictions.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:54:47pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, you know what they say about monkies without depth perception…

No.
/This better have a dirty punchline.

107 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:55:40pm

re: #36 Alouette

Moonbat at True/Slant desperately spinning, spinning, spinning

Gah.

That one keeps popping up over there.
I can’t makes heads or tails of his “logic” or his though process.

108 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:55:49pm

Hamas is a cancer in Palestine. Palestine will never be healthy as long as it is there.

109 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:56:01pm

The overall rationale is set out, in bold type: “The limitation on the transfer of goods is a central pillar in the means at the disposal of the State of Israel in the armed conflict between it and Hamas.”
Details of Gaza blockade revealed in court case

This is from a short search of information.

110 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:56:17pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

not worth it, imho. but kudos for trying.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:56:41pm

re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh. I was hoping you knew.

112 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:57:05pm

re: #80 Obdicut

Like it or not, the Palestinians are the poster children in the propoganda war. It is therefore very important to hold them to account and to discredit their own choices and actions.
The fact that they are surrogates for Iran, the Arabs and now Turkey, is very well known yet largely irrelevant to the superficial media-assisted treatment which is playing out before our eyes.

113 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:57:20pm
114 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:57:40pm

re: #98 MandyManners

With all due respect, you’re full of shit.

Polite aren’t you.

You know, in all discussion of Global Warming skeptics, Tea Partier racists, etc. Why is dissent not allowed in this topic?

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:57:59pm

re: #113 Jack Fate

Dunno. Go look.

116 crzymke  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:59:14pm

Speaking as a someone who generally supports Israel, I’m not sure what these statistics are about aid are supposed to mean. One ton per person over 18 months? Is that a lot? Food and medical supplies? Does that include infrastructure materials?

69 servings of rice per person over 18 months doesn’t sound like a lot. Neither does 8.8 servings of beef over that time. I agree that this blockade running was a bit of a stunt, and I support the Israeli actions there. But at the same time, I think its pretty clear that the palestinians of Gaza are suffering. Using big numbers to try and make the situation there seem less dire is misleading.

This seems like token aid to a region they are keeping neurotic control over. Does keeping a stranglehold on supplies prevent most weaponry from sneaking in? Sure. Is it also inhumane and breed hostility? Yes.

117 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:59:19pm

re: #113 Jack Fate

And we’ll be back to that as soon as you’re gone.

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:59:27pm

Is it time to tell the story about the three Europeans and the IDF soldier who are captured by headhunters again?

As Reagan understood, you can gauge what people are thinking by the jokes they tell.

119 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:59:30pm
120 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:59:50pm
121 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:03pm

re: #100 lawhawk

Well, if I started getting into the nuances of Hamas, proxy armies for the likes of Iran and Syria, media malfeasance that gives propaganda wins to terror groups, human rights groups that take a blind eye to terror but slam Israel at every turn, and my response would go from pithy to verbose.

You don’t have to sacrifice pith, and what you’re presenting— by saying that this is a Palestine vs. Israel issue and not an Israel vs. the rest of the Muslim world— you are being very, very, very inaccurate.

However, what Hamas is doing, or trying to do in Gaza does defy a neat description and that discussion had come up previously. Gaza is not occupied by Israel; Hamas is in control - but it is not a declared state. I would say it’s a failed state. Hamas is a legitimate representative of the Palestinians as being duly elected by the Palestinians at their last election. They are the sole representatives in Gaza after their civil war with Fatah. That puts them in de facto control of Gaza. They enforce their “law” and exercise a near monopoly on the use of force (control the “security” forces, coordinate terror attacks, etc.). That puts them well ahead of a gang or warlord - a situation as in Somalia for example.

You cannot both say a place is a failed state and a totalitarian state. As I said, they are nowhere near organized enough to be totalitarian. They also do not have a monopoly on violence— if nothing else, Israel also projects force into the area.

But the end results are the same - Hamas controls what’s going on in Gaza and is responsible for the situation there.

No, this is not true, and you should stop saying it. Leaving out the effects of the propaganda from Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations, leaving out the financial support from those nations, leaving out the treatment of the Palestinians by those other nations, leaves out an absolutely essential part of the conflict. Hamas is not fully responsible for the situation in Gaza; Hamas was and is supported by a wide variety of external forces, and the support they receive is due, in large part, to propaganda that is universal in the Muslim world and in no way particular to Hamas.

And Saudi Arabia are our allies, and they are one of the main funders of anti-Israel propaganda. That fact is uncomfortable for us, but we must face it.

122 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:06pm
123 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:12pm
124 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:15pm
125 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:32pm
126 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:00:59pm

re: #99 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well gee, It almost sounds like their choosing terrorists at their elected form of government had far reaching consequences which they failed to take into account.

You should read up on the 2006 elections. it was not as simple as you are trying to make it.

The idea for democratic elections was sponsored by the Quartet, pushed by George W Bush against the advice of many Middle East specialists. The choice was between a corrupt Fatah and a socialist Hamas that was supporting the people.

Once Hamas won, then suddenly the idea of democracy wasn’t as glamourous as thought out.

127 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:00pm

re: #114 golgoth

It’s kind of funny you say that in a thread with posters actively disagreeing with each other.

But not very funny.

128 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:23pm
129 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:33pm
130 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:34pm

re: #114 golgoth

Polite aren’t you.

You know, in all discussion of Global Warming skeptics, Tea Partier racists, etc. Why is dissent not allowed in this topic?

There is discussion — with facts, logic and truth. Go get some, they are freely available.

131 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:43pm
132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:01:50pm

re: #121 Obdicut

You cannot both say a place is a failed state and a totalitarian state.

This is an incredibly simple notion! I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for people to get.

133 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:02:04pm
134 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:02:45pm

re: #126 golgoth

You should read up on the 2006 elections. it was not as simple as you are trying to make it.

The idea for democratic elections was sponsored by the Quartet, pushed by George W Bush against the advice of many Middle East specialists. The choice was between a corrupt Fatah and a socialist Hamas that was supporting the people.

Once Hamas won, then suddenly the idea of democracy wasn’t as glamourous as thought out.

and they were told all the while leading up to it that the US, Israel and others would not deal with Hamas, and then they were shocked when they realized we actually meant it.

135 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:02:56pm

re: #116 crzymke

This seems like token aid to a region they are keeping neurotic control over. Does keeping a stranglehold on supplies prevent most weaponry from sneaking in? Sure. Is it also inhumane and breed hostility? Yes.


They receive more aid per capita that any other people earth.

136 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:02:58pm
137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:01pm

Oh my stars there is a smashing row in this thread

138 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:04pm

re: #116 crzymke

But at the same time, I think its pretty clear that the palestinians of Gaza are suffering.

By their own hand, by their own choice. Why is this elusive to you?

139 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:12pm

re: #113 Jack Fate

You have yet to state any opinion other than constant bellyaching as to how this blog operates. If you’re trying to control how we discuss matters in this forum you’re not going to succeed and you won’t succeed in any other forum regardless of the majority views you will find there.

140 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:22pm

re: #131 Jack Fate

Liar, liar, pants on fire?

Bulleye… I thought so, 12 years old and suffers from reading comprehension skills.

141 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:44pm

Oh, gawd, Charles, please put Jack out of his misery!

142 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:49pm
143 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:03:59pm

Fire up the BBQ!

144 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:32pm
145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:34pm

man, it’s too early for this, I need more caffiene

146 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:40pm
147 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:46pm
148 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:47pm

re: #119 Jack Fate


I find LGF lacking.

Project much? What’s wrong, we don’t share the same knee-jerk ‘It’s those wascally Joooos!!!111’ mentality? Go away then. You have nothing valid to offer.

149 Jack Fate  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:04:48pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

Bulleye… I thought so, 12 years old and suffers from reading comprehension skills.

Just trying to target the audience, friend.

150 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:05:04pm

re: #131 Jack Fate

Liar, liar, pants on fire?

What a douchebag

151 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:05:43pm

re: #149 Jack Fate

Just trying to target the audience, friend.

I’m not your friend… yawn.

152 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:05:46pm

i’m having a pretty epic facebook battle with an Indian-American friend of mine about this whole flotilla thing right now. thanks for the ammo.

153 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:05:58pm

re: #126 golgoth

But it also clarified the situation greatly and showed that the Palestinians were not partners in peace - they chose Hamas and their genocidal rhetoric over Fatah’s slightly less inflammatory rhetoric. They chose Hamas to a far greater degree in Gaza than they did in the West Bank - and the result was the civil war between Fatah and Hamas that led to Hamas gaining control over Gaza while Fatah retained control in the West Bank.

The elections were supposed to be called for under the Palestinian Authority charter in any event - and had been delayed (and new elections are currently delayed because Hamas and Fatah continue to refuse to resolve their differences).

154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:06:14pm

re: #143 Gus 802

Fire up the BBQ!

Nah, you’ll go hungry. He’s gonna run away.

155 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:06:51pm

re: #131 Jack Fate

Liar, liar, pants on fire?

Tell me, just how old are you, child?

156 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:06:58pm

re: #102 Fozzie Bear

You just conflated capitulation due to threat of death with support. NOT the same thing.

That is correct, however, I think you misjudge the level of support and indoctrination of the Palestinians. Hamas has vastly more open and strong support than you seem to be comfortable acknowledging.

Many good and reasonable people - like you, and I honestly do think that you are an educated and reasonable person - have a very hard time accepting just how backwards, evil and sociopathic Palistinian “culture” is.

What I just wrote may seem at first to be the height of prejudice. It may infuriate some to say such things. Yet, let’s look at that honestly.

This is culture where it is *normal* for a brother or a father to brutally murder a sister or a daughter for a supposed slight on their honor, should she date the wrong person, dress the wrong way, or simply talk to the wrong man.

This is a culture where mothers pray not for the lives of their children, but that they die killing others.

This is a culture where homosexuals are hunted down and brutally, publicly killed.

This is a culture where attacking a bus of women and children is called a “battle” and the deaths of innocents are called victories. Sweets are passed about to celebrate.

Amongst the Palestinians, there are some good people who I am certain wish with all of their hearts that the world around them was not as crazy as it is. I feel deeply sorry for them. They are also not the majority. The majority truly are barbarians. The sooner that people stop being PC and look at the actual facts; the endless murders of not just Jews but of Arab upon Arab violence, day in day out, the rampant illiteracy, the insane religious zealotry, the hateful and shrill cries to destruction, the sooner people will have a chance to actually address the realities of the situation.

These are not people who are currently in a place where peace is even desired. That is simply the unfortunate truth. As long as that obtains, it is unfair and unjust to expect Israel to bend anymore than it has.

157 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:07:01pm

re: #103 LudwigVanQuixote

Serious Hat Tip to you.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:07:05pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

I have no clue as to how anyone can pretend the thing wasn’t a propaganda stunt.

159 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:07:20pm

Since according to the position of “most” I do not have the facts on hand.

Please tell me what it is that Israel should do.

What should be done about Gaza since it is not likely that Hamas is going to swept out of power anytime soon?

(This is the Internet so any claim that I have vast experience in this issue will probably be ignored.)

160 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:08:01pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

Bulleye… I thought so, 12 years old and suffers from reading comprehension skills.

re: #155 Gang of One

Tell me, just how old are you, child?

GMTA!

161 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:08:06pm

The incredible shrinking thread.

162 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:08:22pm

Don’t quote the troll!

163 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:08:59pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

The incredible shrinking thread.

hehehe.
I just noticed that.
whew.

164 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:09:00pm
165 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:09:11pm

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yet, you have the time to come here. Interesting. By all means, share your opinion, don’t just snark about the one-sided discussion.

What are your thoughts?

He has nothing to offer in the way of thoughts or opinions other than repeatedly bleating that LGF does not allow for other thoughts or opinions. Most boring troll ever.

166 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:10:08pm

re: #159 golgoth

Please tell me what it is that Israel should do.


Continue keeping weapons out of Gaza. It’s the safest thing for everybody. It reduces attacks and make the need for Israeli incursions less likely.

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:11:21pm

re: #162 Gus 802

Don’t quote the troll!

Ah, that’s what I did. Oops.

168 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:11:45pm

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Ah, that’s what I did. Oops.

Collateral damage.

169 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:12:28pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

Continue keeping weapons out of Gaza. It’s the safest thing for everybody. It reduces attacks and make the need for Israeli incursions less likely.

I mean beyond that.

Yes keep out the weapons, but what about the people. And what is to be done in the future for Gaza.

170 Kragar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:12:43pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear


A downding can’t hurt you.

Well, if you have a set of electrified genital cuffs rigged up to your Karma maybe…

171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:12:46pm

re: #148 Gang of One

Project much? What’s wrong, we don’t share the same knee-jerk ‘It’s those wascally Jooos!!!111’ mentality? Go away then. You have nothing valid to offer.

“Now Stephanie, roll down your window, extend your left arm, extend your middle finger… good.”
-John Houseman as a Driving instructor
“Foul Play”

172 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:12:58pm

Ack! I quoted the troll and got deleted. Shame on me.

173 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #170 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, if you have a set of electrified genital cuffs rigged up to your Karma maybe…

Damn you take LGF seriously.

174 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:13:14pm

Hi Lizards!
Lawdy what the heck happen? Did somebody slip in a suitcase nuke in the thread?

175 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:13:34pm

re: #32 Grumpy

South Africa withdraws ambassador from Israel
Ishmael Coovadia (a muslim) was the ambassador to the Jewish state of Israel.
A bit like Germany sending one of the decendants of Adolf H as their friendly emmissary.
But thats south africa - a country of third world stumblers, trying to play on the world stage - embarrasing (and I’m not resorting to any of the sterotypes here)
Like who gives a continental
Don’t buy any crap from here (its probably suspect anyway)
Israel forever
Zionism lives
This from the arse end of the African continent

The main reason this is relevant is that there has been a history of strong cooperation between South Africa and Israel that survived the fall of the apartheid government. Read up on the Vela Incident if you have time. Having South Africa angry at Israel is another ally that is signaling strong displeasure. Again, the issue isn’t if Israel was within legal rights to act, but instead it’s the perception out there that Israel is totally in the wrong. (they weren’t)

Charles is trying to make sure more information is out there to cut through the clutter that demonizes Israel. Each time there’s a little bit more information out there that matters, there’s more information to combat misinformation. I’m not worried about the close minded bigots, I want to convince the people out there who don’t know the facts, who are open minded, but need a little bit of support.

For that, I’m grateful.

That being said, Israel really needs to start figuring out a long term plan and start understanding that if you only worry about tactical and operation planning and don’t start looking at things with a Strategic vision, then you’re going to lose. For instance, how effectively have you heard the Israeli government communicate the reason for the blockade? How often do you hear about times in which Israel strengthens or weakens the blockade in response to increasing or decreasing rocket attacks, have they set an end condition for the blockade? is it the release of Gilad Shalit? Is it when rocket attacks happen? The fall of the Hamas Regime (I refuse to dignify it with the term government)? I’m sure (or think) the Israeli government knows, but have you seen it communicated?

176 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:13:58pm

re: #172 Fozzie Bear

And it was a good comment too. Never a good idea to quote trolls - just reply (safer that way).

177 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:08pm

re: #121 Obdicut

You are wrong and Lawhawk is correct.
Gaza is a failed democratic state (Hamas was democratically elected) which quickly morphed into a totalitarian state.

178 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:22pm

re: #102 Fozzie Bear

You just conflated capitulation due to threat of death with support. NOT the same thing.

You’re right, but when you’re looking at a large enough sample size, the thin line separating the two is very hard to see. Especially when the guilty parties all stick to the same story: “I was just following orders.” And you may be right, the support for Hamas may not be as strong as made out in the polls, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t want all the Jews dead or driven into the sea.

179 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:25pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards!
Lawdy what the heck happen? Did somebody slip in a suitcase nuke in the thread?

Nah, made the mistake of quoting a troll.

180 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:30pm

re: #149 Jack Fate

Looks like we’ve got a spewer troll. I’ll go get the charcoal to the grill. Very nice day for a Troll-B-Q.

181 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:39pm

Rockets were fired toward Ashkelon Thursday night from “peaceful” Gaza. I haven’t been able to confirm this yet. To date there are apparently no “shortages” of rockets and missiles in Gaza.

182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:14:50pm

re: #172 Fozzie Bear

Ack! I quoted the troll and got deleted. Shame on me.

Me threee.

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:15:02pm

re: #170 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That’s not a bug, that’s a feature.

*buzzzap!* Mmmm…

184 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:15:57pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Rockets were fired toward Ashkelon Thursday night from “peaceful” Gaza. I haven’t been able to confirm this yet. To date there are apparently no “shortages” of rockets and missiles in Gaza.

Ah, yes … the proportionate, just response.
/*spit*

185 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:16:06pm

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me threee.

Me four.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:16:12pm

re: #171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How I wish that clip was on the interweaves… So many uses…

187 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:16:55pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards!
Lawdy what the heck happen? Did somebody slip in a suitcase nuke in the thread?

[deleted]

188 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:17:26pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards!
Lawdy what the heck happen? Did somebody slip in a suitcase nuke in the thread?

Well, what happen to today is that I was reading about WWII destroyers and came across some facts about your old haunt of Mare Island. I knew the USS Ward was the fastest-build ocean-going US warship of the 20th Century (less than 2months from keel laying to commissioning) but I did not know that Mare Island had built her. Not surprised though.

189 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:17:35pm

re: #86 golgoth

Now hold on a second here.

You know as a Jew there is the old joke that 2 jews get into an argument and that there are 3 opinions.

Spare me the “as a Jew” bullshit.

From what I have been seeing, there is almost no dissent allowed in what really is a big Israeli cluster-F*

The Gazans aren’t starving, but they aren’t thriving either.

So? They made the choice to not thrive. They were given state of the art greenhouses, an infrastructure and no Jews.

Instead of thriving, they chose to trash the greenhouses to make rockets.

They would rather kill Jews than thrive.

190 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:17:40pm

re: #175 bloodstar


That being said, Israel really needs to start figuring out a long term plan and start understanding that if you only worry about tactical and operation planning and don’t start looking at things with a Strategic vision, then you’re going to lose. For instance, how effectively have you heard the Israeli government communicate the reason for the blockade? How often do you hear about times in which Israel strengthens or weakens the blockade in response to increasing or decreasing rocket attacks, have they set an end condition for the blockade? is it the release of Gilad Shalit? Is it when rocket attacks happen? The fall of the Hamas Regime (I refuse to dignify it with the term government)? I’m sure (or think) the Israeli government knows, but have you seen it communicated?

There are two opinions I have.
1) They don’t and that the idea of status quo is acceptable to them.
2) They do, but are making bad tactical choices.


*and the crazy conspiratorial opinion* This is part of a long term plan to bring back the Sanhedrin, and set things back as they were during the Jewish Kingdom, meaning complete control of West Bank and invasion of the East Bank too.

191 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:17:45pm

re: #169 golgoth

I mean beyond that.

Yes keep out the weapons, but what about the people. And what is to be done in the future for Gaza.

We just have to wait until they want to live peacefully, it can’t be force upon them. They’ll eventually decide that they want prosperous and happy lives but they can’t be forced into a peaceful existence with their neighbors.

192 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:17:49pm

re: #178 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You’re right, but when you’re looking at a large enough sample size, the thin line separating the two is very hard to see. Especially when the guilty parties all stick to the same story: “I was just following orders.” And you may be right, the support for Hamas may not be as strong as made out in the polls, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t want all the Jews dead or driven into the sea.

Anytime a nation cheers pictures on the Internet with their Children in Suicide belts.. It’s a poisoned well there and a sick culture…

193 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:18:26pm

re: #185 reine.de.tout

Me four.

You and I right next to each other. We’re Thelma and Louise (you’re Louise)…

194 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:18:30pm

re: #181 Gus 802

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…] - kassams fired towards Sderot .

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…] - kassams fired towards Ashkelon (no damage reported).

Israel will limit access to the Temple Mount tomorrow for fear of more incitements to riot courtesy of the imams at the al Aqsa mosque. Of course, that act will itself be seen as a provocation by the Islamists and violence will be demanded.

195 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:18:33pm

God, now I feel old. I remember the old days, back before registration, when trolls ran wild and gamey buttocks were in ample supply. Ah, memories…

196 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:19:33pm

re: #189 Alouette

So? They made the choice to not thrive. They were given state of the art greenhouses, an infrastructure and no Jews.

Instead of thriving, they chose to trash the greenhouses to make rockets.

They would rather kill Jews than thrive.

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:19:48pm

re: #195 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Holy shit! You’ve been around here forever!?

Where you been? Hi! I’m FBV!

198 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:19:49pm

re: #195 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

God, now I feel old. I remember the old days, back before registration, when trolls ran wild and gamey buttocks were in ample supply. Ah, memories…

You can get good, aged Gamy Buttocks at Wholefoods, now.

199 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:20:05pm

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You could always use this (no, I did not make that) or this.

200 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:20:12pm

re: #196 golgoth

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

Huh?

201 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:20:23pm

OK, here it is:

4 Kassams fired on southern Israel
06/03/2010 23:09

Four Kassam missiles were fired on southern Israel Thursday, reported the IDF.

No injuries nor damage were reported in the attacks.

Yes, no injuries, damage or death — for now.

202 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:21:11pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

We just have to wait until they want to live peacefully, it can’t be force upon them. They’ll eventually decide that they want prosperous and happy lives but they can’t be forced into a peaceful existence with their neighbors.

So what should Israel do then?

Continue the blockade and keep the gazans relying upon aid and shipments via the border checkpoints?

203 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:21:38pm

re: #198 Gang of One

You can get good, aged Gamy Buttocks at Wholefoods, now.

And recipes in both volumes of the LGF cookbook!

204 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:21:42pm

re: #201 Gus 802

Let’s see how quickly Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PRCs, or the Salafists rush to take credit. Oh, and throw the AAMB in for extra credit.

205 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #196 golgoth

WTF? There was nothing racist about that post.

206 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:22:34pm

re: #194 lawhawk

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…] 00.html - kassams fired towards Sderot .

[Link: www.ynetnews.com…] 00.html - kassams fired towards Ashkelon (no damage reported).

Israel will limit access to the Temple Mount tomorrow for fear of more incitements to riot courtesy of the imams at the al Aqsa mosque. Of course, that act will itself be seen as a provocation by the Islamists and violence will be demanded.

That would be the rockets mentioned earlier. Perhaps a reminder of what a Kassam is is warranted:

The Qassam rocket (Arabic: صاروخ القسام‎ Ṣārūkh al-Qassām; also Kassam) is a simple steel artillery rocket filled with explosives, developed and deployed by the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military arm of Hamas. Three models have been produced and used between 2001 and 2010.

207 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:22:35pm

More film on its way….
Maine Filmmaker Caught in Israeli Raid Returning to Maine

Scott Hamann was aboard an American-flagged ship in the group. He was hired to document the attempt to run the blockade, the paper reports.
…
Hamann’s film and computer equipment are being held by Israel, the paper reports.


Heh.

208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:22:42pm

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

209 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:11pm

re: #203 reine.de.tout

And recipes in both volumes of the LGF cookbook!

My Volume 2 arrived today. Thanks for all your work!

210 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:14pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

Not if you value your marriage.

211 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:16pm

re: #202 golgoth

So what should Israel do then?

Continue the blockade and keep the gazans relying upon aid and shipments via the border checkpoints?

They should let them do without the aid, and all the water, power and medical support they give Gaza until Gilad Shalit comes home. Then perhaps, the Palestinian people might get the clue that actually building a society rather than being the world’s largest and most implacably violent welfare recipient, is not the way to go.

212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:20pm

re: #205 Bubblehead II

WTF? There was nothing racist about that post.

Like he said… The last vanguard of the desperate.

213 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:25pm

The answers to all of your questions can be found here.

214 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:26pm

re: #209 wrenchwench

My Volume 2 arrived today. Thanks for all your work!

Hooray!

215 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:23:31pm

re: #195 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey, I just looked at your avatar page thingy. Nice.

216 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:24:15pm

re: #213 JasonA

If that fails - Nekama’s Troll Hammer might find itself in vogue.

217 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:24:23pm

re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or a severe case of projection.

218 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:03pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

More film on its way…
Maine Filmmaker Caught in Israeli Raid Returning to Maine


Heh.

“He was hired” I wonder how many of the seventy-something journalists were paid to be there.

219 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:08pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

get the fuck out. they put dead guy tissue in her gums?

220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:08pm

re: #217 Bubblehead II

I’m just sayin’.

221 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:09pm

re: #196 golgoth

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

WTF?!

Cluebat on aisle 196.

222 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:09pm

re: #86 golgoth

Now hold on a second here.

You know as a Jew there is the old joke that 2 jews get into an argument and that there are 3 opinions.

What kind of Jew would have Golgoth as a nic?

Ohhh, your not Jewish, you are just patronizing Alouette.

Don’t do that buddy.

223 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

I would be careful where you let her put her mouth in the future… scary. “Honey kiss me…” and she sucks off your face. I can find other problematic scenarios but you would hit me.

224 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:27pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

Legally as in, get legal representation? yes.

225 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:28pm

re: #196 golgoth

Yes, I’d agree that Hamas proves the majority of people in Gaza are genocidal racists.

226 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:30pm

re: #196 golgoth

Accusing Alouette of racism is baseless, hurtful, and an already-seen step of the Butthurt Fandango:

Youtube Video
227 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:31pm

re: #216 lawhawk

Far more civil a response than anything I can come up with right now.

228 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:25:47pm

re: #202 golgoth

So what should Israel do then?

Continue the blockade and keep the gazans relying upon aid and shipments via the border checkpoints?

Or just cut all aid and see how the world likes it.

229 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:26:23pm

re: #190 golgoth

There are two opinions I have.
1) They don’t and that the idea of status quo is acceptable to them.
2) They do, but are making bad tactical choices.

*and the crazy conspiratorial opinion* This is part of a long term plan to bring back the Sanhedrin, and set things back as they were during the Jewish Kingdom, meaning complete control of West Bank and invasion of the East Bank too.

You are spewing the same crap as another troll about the “status quo” and restoring the ancient kingdom. How many sockpuppets do you have here?

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:26:23pm

re: #219 cliffster

get the fuck out. they put dead guy tissue in her gums?

Crazy, huh? They used to rip it from the roof of your own mouth… but this is less painful.

It appears for the cadaver, at least, that is true.

231 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:26:25pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

More film on its way…
Maine Filmmaker Caught in Israeli Raid Returning to Maine


Heh.

The Hamann makes great sense. Who ever doubted that HAshem has a sense of humor.

232 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:26:56pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

Not if you value your marriage.

And especially not if you value certain aspects of your marriage.

233 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:06pm

My cookbook hasn’t gotten here yet. Waaah

234 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:06pm

re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

They should let them do without the aid, and all the water, power and medical support they give Gaza until Gilad Shalit comes home. Then perhaps, the Palestinian people might get the clue that actually building a society rather than being the world’s largest and most implacably violent welfare recipient, is the way to go.

235 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:17pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OT… My wife had surgery on her gums this morning. They transferred flesh from a cadaver. Can I legally call her “Zombie Mouth”?

Depends, can you run faster than her?

236 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:37pm

re: #225 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, I’d agree that Hamas proves the majority of people in Gaza are genocidal racists.

So if Cato proves to be correct, and Palin ends up president, am I safe in proclaiming Americans to be backward ignorant pieces of shit? I think a more accurate characterization would be mislead and deluded.

That’s my point on this issue.

237 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:40pm

re: #218 wrenchwench

“He was hired” I wonder how many of the seventy-something journalists were paid to be there.


Interesting question.

238 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:27:43pm

re: #219 cliffster

get the fuck out. they put dead guy tissue in her gums?

I’m guessing bone.
I’ve had it done.

And FBV - don’t you dare call me “Zombie Mouth”, or any other variation, ore there will be no pie for you!

And it’ll be even worse if you call your wife that.

239 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:09pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

Gums.

240 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:15pm

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

What kind of Jew would have Golgoth as a nic?

Ohhh, your not Jewish, you are just patronizing Alouette.

Don’t do that buddy.

I don’t have to defend my faith, but like everything there is context, read the rest of the line.

241 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:33pm

re: #201 Gus 802

OK, here it is:

4 Kassams fired on southern Israel
06/03/2010 23:09

Yes, no injuries, damage or death — for now.

Wow..just, wow. Israel and the Pali’s are lucky I am not king for a day…that’s all I’d need.

242 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:35pm
re: #207 Killgore Trout

More film on its way…
Maine Filmmaker Caught in Israeli Raid Returning to Maine
Scott Hamann was aboard an American-flagged ship in the group. He was hired to document the attempt to run the blockade, the paper reports.
…
Hamann’s film and computer equipment are being held by Israel, the paper reports.

Heh.

Holy Purim! I thought Haman was spelled with one “n”.

243 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:35pm

I go get some smokes to come back to a thread that looks like Swiss cheese.

244 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:28:57pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

I have no clue as to how anyone can pretend the thing wasn’t a propaganda stunt.


me neither. some folks are just locked into this mentality that if you are living in a third world environment, everything you do is just because you are poor.

yet fascists can also be poor and backwards. this is hard to explain to some.

245 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:29:28pm

re: #239 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gums.

Ah.
Still … tread carefully.
I suggest waiting on her hand & foot until she has fully recovered.

246 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:29:58pm

re: #244 SpaceJesus

me neither. some folks are just locked into this mentality that if you are living in a third world environment, everything you do is just because you are poor.

yet fascists can also be poor and backwards. this is hard to explain to some.

How many of the latest terrorist atrocities have come about from ‘poor’? Most are college educated and living quite the life o’ Reilly.

247 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:30:00pm

re: #243 MandyManners

I go get some smokes to come back to a thread that looks like Swiss cheese.

Don’t quote the Troll.

248 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:30:03pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Well, what happen to today is that I was reading about WWII destroyers and came across some facts about your old haunt of Mare Island. I knew the USS Ward was the fastest-build ocean-going US warship of the 20th Century (less than 2months from keel laying to commissioning) but I did not know that Mare Island had built her. Not surprised though.

I am very proud to have worked at MINSY…America build a lot of ships there…
The old timers sure taught us a lot.
I’ll tell you a little story.. When Clinton got elected he sent some dunce to the base to give us a ethics seminar.. Afterwards I walked up to him and told him he had a lot of nerve coming to our base and talking crap about ethics..
Get the hell back to DC..
He wanted to see my badge so he could “report” me..
I flipped him off and walked away while he was whinning about finding out who I was…
Freaking DC…

249 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:30:15pm

re: #243 MandyManners

I go get some smokes to come back to a thread that looks like Swiss cheese.

We’re having a major troll infestation. The trolls need your special brand of tough love, Mandy.

250 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:30:53pm

re: #243 MandyManners

I go get some smokes to come back to a thread that looks like Swiss cheese.

Domino Effect.
/Delivered in under a half hour, too!

251 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:31:06pm

re: #196 golgoth

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

Ah, douchery. The last vanguard of the asshole.

252 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:31:29pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

We’re having a major troll infestation. The trolls need your special brand of tough love, Mandy.

I gave the trolls my special brand of tough love, without even quoting them, and I got deleted.

253 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:31:59pm

re: #236 Fozzie Bear

Knock yourself out. But a majority electing an idiot like Palin is a hell of a lot different than a majority that elects a governing body whose stated goal is to wipe out Israel. Just sayin’.

254 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:32:48pm

re: #196 golgoth

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

Please point out, in detail, where the racism was/is in Alouette’s comment… waiting?

255 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:33:32pm

re: #190 golgoth

There are two opinions I have.
1) They don’t and that the idea of status quo is acceptable to them.
2) They do, but are making bad tactical choices.

*and the crazy conspiratorial opinion* This is part of a long term plan to bring back the Sanhedrin, and set things back as they were during the Jewish Kingdom, meaning complete control of West Bank and invasion of the East Bank too.

Really? did you have to add the second part? I actually thought there was hope to have a dialog about Gaza, not some pie in the sky conspiracy of Greater Israel. Where’s any shred of evidence that this is in fact what’s taking place?

Come on, this is weak as hell, and if you can’t support something, don’t throw it out there as troll bait. It’s a waste of your time, my time, and everyone else who lost that 15 seconds reading that they’ll never get back.

256 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:33:52pm

The world is just looking for excuses to get it’s ‘anti-semite’ on. It’s chic and cool now…

*spit*

257 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:33:56pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

I’m guessing bone.
I’ve had it done.

And FBV - don’t you dare call me “Zombie Mouth”, or any other variation, ore there will be no pie for you!

And it’ll be even worse if you call your wife that.

If I made fun of my wife for having a dead bone, I think I know what she would say.

258 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:34:09pm

re: #196 golgoth

Ah, racism.

The last vanguard of the desperate.

Islam is not a race.

259 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:34:53pm

re: #240 golgoth

I don’t have to defend my faith, but like everything there is context, read the rest of the line.

Don’t add being a fool to being a douchebag. I am not attacking your faith. I am pointing out that if you are not a member of the Tribe, you don’t get to condescending references about the tribe to the Tribe.

260 darthstar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:34:54pm

Last night, put to music. (sister in law visiting from Colorado with the green shirt)

Youtube Video
261 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:34:59pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

Let him get his blackboard out.

262 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:35:22pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

Please point out, in detail, where the racism was/is in Alouette’s comment… waiting?

Don’t hold your breath, Walter. Its a nonsense non sequitur.

263 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:36:00pm

re: #255 bloodstar

Really? did you have to add the second part? I actually thought there was hope to have a dialog about Gaza, not some pie in the sky conspiracy of Greater Israel. Where’s any shred of evidence that this is in fact what’s taking place?

Come on, this is weak as hell, and if you can’t support something, don’t throw it out there as troll bait. It’s a waste of your time, my time, and everyone else who lost that 15 seconds reading that they’ll never get back.

Actually not my ideas, but based upon my time in Israel.

You should spend time with the Hebron settlers like did.

Had a few people from Tsfat talk about it too.

264 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:38:09pm

re: #263 golgoth

Actually not my ideas, but based upon my time in Israel.

You should spend time with the Hebron settlers like did.

Had a few people from Tsfat talk about it too.

And every Israeli thinks the same way?

265 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:39:59pm

“golgoth” and “tommysilver” have a similar way with words. Maybe they’re related.

266 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:40:14pm

re: #264 Gang of One

And every Israeli thinks the same way?

No no no, he is trying to establish some sort of Jewish cred. Matter of time before we hear about Naturei Carta types.

267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:40:42pm

My wife just told me that they “let” her watch the procedure.

She’s nuckin’ futz.

268 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:41:16pm

re: #256 Oh no…Sand People!

The world is just looking for excuses to get it’s ‘anti-semite’ on. It’s chic and cool now…

*spit*

Hating on Israel is always in style. Russia flattens Grozny and slaughters tens of thousands and the world yawns. North Korea sinks a South Korean warship and kills 46 and the UN launches an investigation. But Israel kills 9 “activists” while enforcing an arms blockade and the chorus line of condemnations begins.

269 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:41:28pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

More film on its way…
Maine Filmmaker Caught in Israeli Raid Returning to Maine


Heh.

Here’s his Linked page.

[Link: www.linkedin.com…]

270 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:41:46pm

re: #264 Gang of One

And every Israeli thinks the same way?

Did I say that? Of course most Israelis dont believe that.

Was the “*conspiratorial crazy*”, not there for a reason?

To say that this is not an opinion of what some Haredim (extremists in their own way) is false.

271 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:42:05pm

re: #267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife just told me that they “let” her watch the procedure.

She’s nuckin’ futz.

That’s like being “allowed” to watch 2 girls, one cup. Knock me the fuck out, imo.

272 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:42:18pm

re: #201 Gus 802

OK, here it is:

4 Kassams fired on southern Israel
06/03/2010 23:09

Yes, no injuries, damage or death — for now.

RoP.

Rockets of Peace.

273 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:42:19pm

re: #266 LudwigVanQuixote

No no no, he is trying to establish some sort of Jewish cred. Matter of time before we hear about Naturei Carta types.

I was thinking of the same thing… addressing a small radical mindset (and there are many of those rogue groups in Israel) and making it sound like they have the Knesset by the balls, or are some major political influence.

274 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:42:34pm

Well, gotta go!

Later folks, have fun with the buttocks on the barbie..

275 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:42:52pm

re: #266 LudwigVanQuixote

No no no, he is trying to establish some sort of Jewish cred. Matter of time before we hear about Naturei Carta types.

They don’t want Israel to exist, I was referencing the more Kahane type of Ultra-Orthodox.

276 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:00pm

re: #246 Oh no…Sand People!

How many of the latest terrorist atrocities have come about from ‘poor’? Most are college educated and living quite the life o’ Reilly.

true, this is hard to explain to lots of people though because of how the media portrays terrorists and their supporters.

277 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:15pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

We’re having a major troll infestation. The trolls need your special brand of tough love, Mandy.

Rope or iron skillet?

278 cliffster  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:19pm

re: #267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife just told me that they “let” her watch the procedure.

She’s nuckin’ futz.

When I had my wisdom teeth removed, I had never been put under for any medical procedure (still haven’t, actually). I didn’t want to, either. So I did it with local. Surgeon asked me a few times, “are you sure? are you really sure? Seriously?” All four wisdom teeth were impacted. There were hammers and chisels, yanking, it was awful. What a dumbfuck I was. One quarter of the way through it, I had already changed my mind. Too late.

279 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:27pm

re: #275 golgoth

They don’t want Israel to exist, I was referencing the more Kahane type of Ultra-Orthodox.

Kahane types are not welcome here, and they are not Ultra-Orthodox.

280 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:30pm

re: #250 Gang of One

Domino Effect.
/Delivered in under a half hour, too!

No nuts on my pizza.

281 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:40pm

Looks like the Rachel Corrie isn’t going to make it this weekend.

Irish aid ship delays voyage to Gaza

(CNN) — An Irish-owned aid ship headed for Gaza is delaying its voyage for a while to get equipped with video capabilities and satellite transmission to record what is happening at any given moment on the vessel, a Free Gaza Movement activist told CNN.

Wonder if this is going to be anything like the Rooster Cam?

282 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #270 golgoth

Did I say that? Of course most Israelis dont believe that.

Was the “*conspiratorial crazy*”, not there for a reason?

To say that this is not an opinion of what some Haredim (extremists in their own way) is false.

You imply otherwise. I did not bring up the Haredim, you did.

283 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:44:29pm

re: #281 Bubblehead II

Snuff film waiting to happen.

284 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:44:47pm

I am haredi. Does this putz want to mess with me? I have a marble rolling pin.

285 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:45:55pm

re: #277 MandyManners

Rope or iron skillet?

Can one piss up a skillet?

286 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:46:36pm

re: #270 golgoth

Did I say that? Of course most Israelis dont believe that.

Was the “*conspiratorial crazy*”, not there for a reason?

To say that this is not an opinion of what some Haredim (extremists in their own way) is false.

Are you equating a small minority in Israel with the majority in Gaza?

287 golgoth  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:47:20pm

Sigh,
re: #286 MandyManners

Are you equating a small minority in Israel with the majority in Gaza?


To quote Liz Lemon, “What the what?”

288 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:47:41pm

re: #281 Bubblehead II

Looks like the Rachel Corrie isn’t going to make it this weekend.

Irish aid ship delays voyage to Gaza

(CNN) — An Irish-owned aid ship headed for Gaza is delaying its voyage for a while to get equipped with video capabilities and satellite transmission to record what is happening at any given moment on the vessel, a Free Gaza Movement activist told CNN.

Wonder if this is going to be anything like the Rooster Cam?

What, they haven’t gotten enough bad press already, they want the world to see it live as they either A) Get their asses handed to them by Israeli soldiers who aren’t fucking around anymore or B) Quietly sit like meek little sheep while the Israelis bring the ship into port and they get marched off to be deported?

289 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:48:10pm

re: #284 Alouette

I am haredi. Does this putz want to mess with me? I have a marble rolling pin.

Please Alouette, in all of history there has never been anything as terrible as the wrath of a Yiddische mama with a marble rolling pin!

(This is true, after she kneecaps you, so you can’t escape, she will explain why you deserve to die for at least four hours)

Think about the PR of such a disproportionate response… even if the putz is begging for it.

290 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:48:27pm

re: #278 cliffster

When I had my wisdom teeth removed, I had never been put under for any medical procedure (still haven’t, actually). I didn’t want to, either. So I did it with local. Surgeon asked me a few times, “are you sure? are you really sure? Seriously?” All four wisdom teeth were impacted. There were hammers and chisels, yanking, it was awful. What a dumbfuck I was. One quarter of the way through it, I had already changed my mind. Too late.

LOL.
I had all 4 pulled in San Diego while in the Navy, impacted and all. Awake the whole time.

I knew I was heading for the cliff when the dentist was using the arm rests to brace his knees as he hammered away……
And the look on the pretty gal assisting him while this was going on? Priceless.

291 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:49:33pm

re: #288 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What, they haven’t gotten enough bad press already, they want the world to see it live as they either A) Get their asses handed to them by Israeli soldiers who aren’t fucking around anymore or B) Quietly sit like meek little sheep while the Israelis bring the ship into port and they get marched off to be deported?

Good post and I just noticed the Macros icon. You get cool points.

292 Gang of One  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:50:02pm

re: #287 golgoth

Sigh,

To quote Liz Lemon, “What the what?”

Lemme ‘splain it to you:
Small [very small] minority of Israelis have these radical views, which do not, by the way, include genocide.
Majority [they elected Hams] of Jordyptians want to snuff Israel and the Jews.

Capiche?

293 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:50:11pm

re: #281 Bubblehead II

Looks like the Rachel Corrie isn’t going to make it this weekend.

Irish aid ship delays voyage to Gaza

(CNN) — An Irish-owned aid ship headed for Gaza is delaying its voyage for a while to get equipped with video capabilities and satellite transmission to record what is happening at any given moment on the vessel, a Free Gaza Movement activist told CNN.

Wonder if this is going to be anything like the Rooster Cam?

Smile! You’re on Jihad Camera!

294 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:50:40pm

re: #285 Gang of One

Can one piss up a skillet?

Only with practice.

295 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:51:04pm

re: #283 JasonA

I hope not.

296 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:51:24pm

re: #277 MandyManners

Rope or iron skillet?

Iron skillet, please.

297 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:51:35pm

re: #294 MandyManners

This right here is one of the advantages of being male. Pissing up doesn’t require me to do headstands.

298 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:52:06pm

re: #296 Dark_Falcon

Iron skillet, please.

Hard on my elbow.

299 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:52:20pm

re: #295 Bubblehead II

Hamas does.

300 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:52:46pm

re: #297 Fozzie Bear

This right here is one of the advantages of being male. Pissing up doesn’t require me to do headstands.

Now I have this disturbing image.

301 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:53:30pm

re: #288 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well if they put up a fight when they are boarded, it will be well documented and the Irish Government is going to look awfully foolish for putting their stamp of approval on this ill advised endeavor.

302 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:55:50pm

re: #157 Ericus58

Serious Hat Tip to you.

Thank you.

303 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:57:41pm

OK, this got a laugh out of me:

Castro suggests a nuclear strike
June 3, 2010 - 4:37pm

The former leader of Cuba, Fidel Castro says if the U.S launched a nuclear strike against Iran, President Barack Obama would definitely win another term. In an opinion column published by Cuban state media, the reclusive Castro, says North Korea’s recent sinking of a South Korean frigate is a good opening for the U.S. to launch an attack against the North Koreans. Castro also suggested that Mr Obama getting bad advice from his advisors.

304 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:57:45pm

re: #301 Bubblehead II

Well if they put up a fight when they are boarded, it will be well documented and the Irish Government is going to look awfully foolish for putting their stamp of approval on this ill advised endeavor.

Yeah, but you’re thinking like a rational human being. To the apologists, it’ll just be seen as proof that these folks are only protecting themselves from the jack-booted Israeli commando thugs, just like the “activists” on the Mavi Marmara did.

305 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 1:58:29pm

re: #299 JasonA

Do we know if there are any Hamas affiliated organizations on board her as there was on the Mavi Marmara?

306 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:00:45pm

re: #303 Gus 802

OK, this got a laugh out of me:

Castro suggests a nuclear strike
June 3, 2010 - 4:37pm

/facepalm

The old man is getting crazier.

307 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:01:33pm

re: #306 Fozzie Bear

/facepalm

The old man is getting crazier.

Yeah. I would never have expected Castro to suggest attacking North Korea in a million years.

308 darthstar  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:01:50pm

re: #303 Gus 802

OK, this got a laugh out of me:

Castro suggests a nuclear strike
June 3, 2010 - 4:37pm

Sounds like Castro thinks Bush is still president. We can’t just go around attacking everyone he wants us to so we’ll stay in perpetual war.

309 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:01:54pm

re: #305 Bubblehead II

Do we know if there are any Hamas affiliated organizations on board her as there was on the Mavi Marmara?

Maybe, maybe not. They don’t care, they just want someone to die on camera so the rest of the world will shake their fingers at Israel. It doesn’t really matter to them who dies, I think.

310 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:02:14pm

re: #304 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

True, it will only take a few to cause the same sort of incident as on the Mavi Marmara, but I don’t think the IDF is going to let it get to that level this time.

311 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:03:50pm

re: #303 Gus 802

Is Castro angling for a job with FoxNews?

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:04:20pm

re: #68 JasonA

Okay, here’s their problem:

Percentage Distribution of Persons (10 Years and Over) by the Main Purpose of Using the Internet, 2006

Electronic Commerce: .9%

Ebay. Solve your “poverty” and find great deals at the same time.
After you get rid of Hamas so you can actually trade with the rest of the world, of course.

One Palestinian woman, a schoolteacher IIRC, actually started a small business/fundraiser selling stones thrown during the Intifada on eBay. I actually thought it wasn’t a bad idea, ideological issues aside, but I believe she got shut down.

313 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:04:35pm

re: #307 Gus 802

Yeah. I would never have expected Castro to suggest attacking North Korea in a million years.

Does the man not realize that this would almost definitely lead to war with China? I mean, China probably doesn’t much care for their crazy neighbor either, but you can’t just go nuking countries right on the Chinese border and expect nothing will happen. They would freak the fuck out, and justifiably.

314 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:06:11pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

I know I’m generalizing, but why does hate to seem to be involved in everything they do?

315 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:06:29pm

re: #313 Fozzie Bear

Does the man not realize that this would almost definitely lead to war with China? I mean, China probably doesn’t much care for their crazy neighbor either, but you can’t just go nuking countries right on the Chinese border and expect nothing will happen. They would freak the fuck out, and justifiably.

It’s typical Castro-logic. More background on what he said here:

Fidel Castro claims Obama lives in fantasy world
By WILL WEISSERT (AP) – 1 day ago

HAVANA — Fidel Castro speculated Wednesday that a nuclear strike on Iran might help President Barack Obama win a second term in the White House and also suggested the United States could attack North Korea…

One could say it’s Machiavellian rhetoric.

316 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:07:42pm

re: #307 Gus 802

re: #313 Fozzie Bear

Ummm Guys, he’s suggesting we nuke Iran, not the Norks.

“The former leader of Cuba, Fidel Castro says if the U.S launched a nuclear strike against Iran, President Barack Obama would definitely win another term.”

317 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:08:28pm
318 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:08:34pm

re: #316 Bubblehead II

re: #313 Fozzie Bear

Ummm Guys, he’s suggesting we nuke Iran, not the Norks.

“The former leader of Cuba, Fidel Castro says if the U.S launched a nuclear strike against Iran, President Barack Obama would definitely win another term.”

I know that. He said to “nuke” Iran but to “attack” North Korea.

319 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:08:35pm

re: #315 Gus 802

Then again……………

320 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:10:40pm

re: #317 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Careful there. Charles has been touchy about those kind of posts. Mandy almost got it yesterday.

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:11:54pm

re: #116 crzymke

Speaking as a someone who generally supports Israel, I’m not sure what these statistics are about aid are supposed to mean. One ton per person over 18 months? Is that a lot? Food and medical supplies? Does that include infrastructure materials?

69 servings of rice per person over 18 months doesn’t sound like a lot. Neither does 8.8 servings of beef over that time. I agree that this blockade running was a bit of a stunt, and I support the Israeli actions there. But at the same time, I think its pretty clear that the palestinians of Gaza are suffering. Using big numbers to try and make the situation there seem less dire is misleading.

This seems like token aid to a region they are keeping neurotic control over. Does keeping a stranglehold on supplies prevent most weaponry from sneaking in? Sure. Is it also inhumane and breed hostility? Yes.

That’s in the first quarter of the year, not over 18 months.

322 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:12:24pm

This is pretty good…

Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven facts you need to know
Amid a barrage of criticism of Israel, fair-minded observers should consider these seven facts before judging the flotilla raid.
By Nadav Tamir / June 3, 2010

In the torrent of rage and confusion generated by the loss of life when the Israeli Navy enforced the embargo on the Gaza Strip this week, there has been a regrettable overlooking of certain fundamental facts. As is so frequently the case, these facts have gotten buried in the rubble of political rhetoric. In order to prevent this incident from having a deleterious effect on the peace process going forward, the following must be understood:

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

CONTINUES

323 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:13:23pm

re: #290 Ericus58

LOL.
I had all 4 pulled in San Diego while in the Navy, impacted and all. Awake the whole time.

I knew I was heading for the cliff when the dentist was using the arm rests to brace his knees as he hammered away…
And the look on the pretty gal assisting him while this was going on? Priceless.

I was there once. No fun -_-

324 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:13:33pm

re: #320 Bubblehead II

Careful there. Charles has been touchy about those kind of posts. Mandy almost got it yesterday.

Ah, thanks for that advice.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:15:25pm

re: #236 Fozzie Bear

So if Cato proves to be correct, and Palin ends up president, am I safe in proclaiming Americans to be backward ignorant pieces of shit? I think a more accurate characterization would be mislead and deluded.

That’s my point on this issue.

If Palin ends up president, that’s pretty mild compared to what I will be saying about Americans.

326 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:16:27pm

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is not unique to Palestine, but common to the entire modern Muslim world.

It is not about Palestine. It is about the entirety of the rest of the Middle East, including many nations that the US favors and supports in one way or another.

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:17:30pm

re: #263 golgoth

Actually not my ideas, but based upon my time in Israel.

You should spend time with the Hebron settlers like did.

Had a few people from Tsfat talk about it too.

You should hang out with a better class of Israeli. Sounds like you palled around with some nutjobs and then decided they were running the show.

328 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:18:13pm

re: #322 Gus 802

“There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.”

Unfortunately, when it comes to Israel, there seems to be more irrational and closed minded people than the former.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:20:16pm

re: #314 JasonA

I know I’m generalizing, but why does hate to seem to be involved in everything they do?

There’s a market for it, alas. The world pays Palestinians to hate Jews. Not so much for anything else.

330 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:22:04pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a market for it, alas. The world pays Palestinians to hate Jews. Not so much for anything else.

Wow. Someone should build them some greenhouses or something.///

331 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:23:22pm

Going upstairs.

332 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:26:23pm

re: #327 SanFranciscoZionist

You should hang out with a better class of Israeli. Sounds like you palled around with some nutjobs and then decided they were running the show.

I don’t believe he ever met any actual Jews from Hebron and Tsfat, he is just making shit up according to what he reads in The Guardian.

Also I have noticed a striking similarity in the posting styles of “golgoth” and “tommysilver” and I would like to know what Charles thinks about that.

333 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:28:48pm
334 ryannon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:30:29pm

re: #35 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh, of course there were plenty of dissenters in Nazi Germany…they just didn’t say squat until after the war was over, when suddenly everybody was a “Good German.” Might have had something to do with the fact that any who spoke up about their opposition while the Reich was still in power had a tendency to end up dead in the streets by way of “lead poisoning,” courtesy of the Gestapo. Likewise there may be plenty of those who disagree with Hamas and want peace with Israel, only Hamas has a word for them: “collaborators.” And the vocal ones have a life expectancy measured in hours and minutes.

More accurately, political dissenters in Nazi Germany were shipped off to Dauchau as early as 1933. All told, there were an estimated 200,000 German political prisoners, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the Jews, but the lesson was clear. Dissension was simply not tolerated from the start.

Leading up to the 1933 elections, the Nazis began intensifying acts of violence to wreak havoc among the opposition. With the cooperation of local authorities, they set up camps as concentration centers within Germany. One of the first was Dachau, which opened in March 1933. These early camps were meant to hold, torture, or kill only political prisoners, such as Communists and Social Democrats.[78]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

(Other) Camps were located in Oranienburg, north of Berlin; Esterwegen, near Hamburg; Dachau, northwest of Munich; and Lichtenburg, in Saxony. By the end of July 1933, almost 27,000 people — virtually all of them political prisoners — were incarcerated in these camps.
By the end of 1934, the German authorities disbanded most of these early concentration camps. In their place and under the exclusive jurisdiction of the SS, they established a centrally organized concentration camp system. The first SS concentration camp had been established on March 20, 1933 at Dachau, in an abandoned World War I munitions factory. Located near Munich in southwestern Germany, Dachau served as the “model” for a vast system of SS camps. By 1939, six large concentration camps had been established. Besides Dachau, they were Sachsenhausen (1936), Buchenwald (1937), Flossenbuerg (1938), Mauthausen (1938), and to house women prisoners, Ravensbrueck (1939).
Nazi persecution of political opponents exacted a terrible price in human suffering. Between 1933 and 1939, the criminal courts sentenced tens of thousands of Germans for “political crimes.” If the police were confident of a conviction in court, the prisoner was turned over to the justice system for trial. If the police were unsatisfied with the outcome of criminal proceedings they would take the acquitted citizen or the citizen who was sentenced to a suspended sentence into protective detention and incarcerate him or her in a concentration camp. On the eve of the war, concentration camps held about 25,000 inmates, most of them political prisoners.

[Link: www.ushmm.org…]

335 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 2:35:23pm

I’m out. Be nice to each other.

336 JEA62  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 3:44:06pm

The blame goes to all sides. The Israelis, the Palestinians, Hamas, these ‘activists’.

337 richard12  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 3:45:13pm

An Open Letter to the Secular People of Turkey

An Israeli has written an open letter to the secular people of Turkey. Please feel free to check it out and pass it on. [Link: anothermudpit.blogspot.com…]

338 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:05:01pm

In a strange and repulsive way, you’ve got to hand it to the Gaza Palestinians. They’ve managed to get their most of their basic needs met for free via the international community, in a way that most destitute third world countries never achieved. From a pure survival point of view, they have essentially leapfrogged to the head of the line with the support of their sympathizers.

339 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:29:39pm

re: #303 Gus 802

OK, this got a laugh out of me:

Castro suggests a nuclear strike
June 3, 2010 - 4:37pm

Don’t think the man has room to talk on that particular subject. Of course, it’s a free country.

340 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:36:53pm

“Israel’s Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza”

What planet are you on? You’ve reached new levels of self parody.

341 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:37:53pm

re: #340 Tonic

The planet where Israel delivers massive amounts of aid to Gaza.

This one.

342 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:41:43pm

re: #340 Tonic

“Israel’s Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza”

What planet are you on? You’ve reached new levels of self parody.

Image: shot-down.jpg

343 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:41:45pm

re: #340 Tonic

“Israel’s Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza”

What planet are you on? You’ve reached new levels of self parody.

Planet reality, you appear to be in wonderland.

344 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:43:02pm

re: #336 JEA62

Wrong.

re: #340 Tonic

Stupid.

Next?

345 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:43:15pm

re: #340 Tonic

Had a bit too much Gin with your Tonic eh? Better lay off it for a bit.

346 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:45:13pm

Well, to assert that Israel is some kind of benevolent occupier is a bit rich. 1400 killed last year and a destroyed infrastructure. How about that ‘delivery’!

347 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:45:44pm

re: #340 Tonic

“Israel’s Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza”

What planet are you on? You’ve reached new levels of self parody.

So you feel the same way about Charles’ original post above, right? The one which links to “facts”?

Here’s a napkin. You have some bigot on your chin…

348 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:45:50pm

re: #346 Tonic

How about that rocket delivery Hamas sent Israel earlier today?

349 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:45:59pm

re: #346 Tonic

The tonic goes on the hair. You’re not supposed to drink it.

350 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:47:07pm

re: #349 Gus 802

The tonic goes on the hair. You’re not supposed to drink it.

It rubs the lotion on it’s skin
Or it gets the hose again.

351 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:47:12pm

re: #346 Tonic

Well, to assert that Israel is some kind of benevolent occupier is a bit rich. 1400 killed last year and a destroyed infrastructure. How about that ‘delivery’!

You’re right, it’s quite rich. Gaza isn’t occupied at all, and their border with Egypt is as tight as their border with Israel. Hamas governs it…poorly, to be sure, but did you really expect better from a terrorist organization?

352 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:48:11pm

Crap, I hate to put a cloud in here, but I think a reality check is fair. There are 1.5 million people in Gaza. I’m going to lowball 5% being children needing milk or baby food, so that’s a bit over 1.4 million needing ‘hard food’ and ~75,000 babies. Now let’s look at the numbers delivered in a 90 day window.

The wheat is one loaf of bread per hard food eater per three days. That assumes they used none of it for anything else such as pasta type dishes.

3.1 million days of babyfood divided by 90 days is 34,444 children fed, or half my lowball.

On the other hand, they brought in 5 servings per day per person of rice.

Then there are the numbers that don’t add up. The claim is that 1100 head of cattle will provide 8.8 million meals. Assuming big cows at ~1,600 pounds per cow, that’s approximately 800 pounds of beef per cow. Assume you stretch to get 1,000 pounds through use of offal for a total of 1.1 million pounds of beef. That means each meal is 1/8 of a pound.

According to the US EPA, 1 ounce of hypochlorite will purify 8 gallons of water. 16 ounces per pound times 2000 pounds times 3000 tons times 8 gallons (16*2000*3000*8) is 768 million gallons, not over 60 billion gallons. Now that’s still over 5.6 gallons per person per day, but why the huge number?

I twitch when information sources have several errors. It makes me wonder how trustworthy the rest might be.

353 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:48:34pm

re: #346 Tonic

Well, to assert that Israel is some kind of benevolent occupier is a bit rich. 1400 killed last year and a destroyed infrastructure. How about that ‘delivery’!

To assert that their any kind of occupier is either ignorant, stupid, or a lie.

354 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:49:48pm

Sleepers should just continue sleeping.

355 Morrisminor  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:49:56pm

Oh those ebil Joos, just like the Nazis
Oh my brain stuck, it was the Palis who were Adolf’s little pals in WW ll.

356 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:52:51pm

re: #354 Varek Raith

Sleepers should just continue sleeping.

Well, “tonic’s” account is going to be put to sleep once Charles sees what he’s been posting.

357 Morrisminor  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:53:28pm

To be sure Tonic, the Israelis can be tough and don’t love the Palis.
But if Israel was the same as the average Muslim or Communist country, not only would Gaza and most Gazans cease to exist, NOBODY would care.

358 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:54:24pm

re: #346 Tonic

Well, to assert that Israel is some kind of benevolent occupier is a bit rich. 1400 killed last year and a destroyed infrastructure. How about that ‘delivery’!

Run, Forrest, Run!

359 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:54:29pm
To assert that their any kind of occupier is either ignorant, stupid, or a lie.

They control the borders. So what does that make them?

360 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:55:03pm

re: #359 Tonic

They control the borders. So what does that make them?

Egypt?

361 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:55:14pm

re: #359 Tonic

They control the Gazan border with Egypt?

362 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:55:28pm

D’oh!

363 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:56:42pm

re: #358 CapeCoddah

Run, Forrest, Run!

Hey, CC! Glad to see you! You and me clubbing a moonbat troll that hates Charles for telling the truth, it’s just like old times.

364 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:56:51pm

re: #359 Tonic

They control the borders. So what does that make them?

A nation that is trying to protect it’s citizens from being killed by gawt-damned, genocidal suicide bombers who minds are stuck in the fucking dark ages.

And what of Egypt’s border control? Got an opinion on that?

365 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:57:18pm

re: #361 Obdicut

They control the Gazan border with Egypt?

Don’t laugh, since Monday, I’ve heard a dozen variations on the same theme that Egypt is Israel’s bitch and that their part of the Gaza border might as well be considered under Israeli control.

366 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:57:21pm
To be sure Tonic, the Israelis can be tough and don’t love the Palis. But if Israel was the same as the average Muslim or Communist country, not only would Gaza and most Gazans cease to exist, NOBODY would care.

Hmmm, not sure about that. Turkey’s an example of a moderately prosperous Muslim state and it’s not filled with extremists (with a few exceptions). Reduce poverty and that’s what you get.

Keep a country under siege and….

367 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:57:55pm

re: #358 CapeCoddah

Hey, CapeCoddah, good of you to stop by and see us!

368 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:58:20pm

re: #366 Tonic

The only entity keeping Gaza under siege is Hamas and Fatah.

369 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:59:42pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

Hey, CC! Glad to see you! You and me clubbing a moonbat troll that hates Charles for telling the truth, it’s just like old times.

Right there with ya, DF! You hold him, I’ll whack him.. got my coyote bat right here… Apparently, Israel is not supposed to control IT’S borders. How dare those Joos try to keep weapons from a terrorist organization sworn to wipe them off the map, the bastards/

370 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:59:48pm
Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If Israel ended the blockade, so would Egypt. This wouldn’t work vice versa.

371 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:00:40pm
moonbat troll

No trollin here, just thought this place was starting to return to some semblance of sanity… then I see this headline!

372 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:00:50pm

re: #366 Tonic

Hmmm, not sure about that. Turkey’s an example of a moderately prosperous Muslim state and it’s not filled with extremists (with a few exceptions). Reduce poverty and that’s what you get.

Keep a country under siege and…

Ha, ha, ha, Turkey? Turkey of the Armenian genocide? Turkey that has oppressed and massacred countless Kurds? An oppression which continues till this day. Turkey which stole land from the Armenians, Kurds, Greeks and others?

Turkey is chock full of extremists you moron, and has a bloody sinister history.

373 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:01:28pm

re: #370 Tonic

If Israel ended the blockade, so would Egypt. This wouldn’t work vice versa.

What prevents Egypt from ending the blockade? Do they no longer have control over their own borders?

374 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:02:08pm

re: #371 Tonic

No trollin here, just thought this place was starting to return to some semblance of sanity… then I see this headline!

It was a very sensible place until you dropped by to spread lies and ignorance.

375 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:02:21pm

re: #370 Tonic

Either you’re knowingly trolling, or you’ve got a long way to go to reach the level of naive.

376 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:03:18pm

re: #371 Tonic

This has always been a pro-Israel, anti-idiot blog. If you aren’t down with that, clear off!

377 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:03:34pm

re: #370 Tonic

If Israel ended the blockade, so would Egypt. This wouldn’t work vice versa.

Ok, i’m going to need you to unravel that little mobius strip of thought there.

If israel ended the blockade, so would egypt.

So egypt is, like, totally israel’s buddy and is just trying to help. Is that what we’re reduced to now? Really?

378 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:03:35pm
Turkey of the Armenian genocide?

So you don’t like Germans either, I take it?

379 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:03:45pm

re: #371 Tonic

You’ve got the definition of sanity backwards. What’s insane is being naive and stupid enough to think that Hamas controlled Gaza is anything approaching sanity.

380 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:04:07pm

D’oh, again!

381 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:04:17pm

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

That’s two strikes against Tonic right there.

382 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:04:23pm

re: #366 Tonic

Hmmm, not sure about that. Turkey’s an example of a moderately prosperous Muslim state and it’s not filled with extremists (with a few exceptions). Reduce poverty and that’s what you get.

Keep a country under siege and…

Which country is under siege? Surely you do not mean Gaza?
It is Gaza who held Israel under siege, firing rockets randomly into Israeli neighborhoods, schools, shopping centers, etc. If the Palis want their own country, tell them to go home to Eqypt and Jordan. The Palis are squatting on Israeli soil, truth be told, and that because Israel GAVE it to them, when no other Arab nation would extend a helping hand to their “Brothers”. Why is that?

383 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:04:30pm
This has always been a pro-Israel, anti-idiot blog. If you aren’t down with that, clear off!

Not sure why. Israel does whatever it can get away with. If that means bombing a US ship or forging British passports, so be it.

384 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:04:52pm

re: #378 Tonic

So you don’t like Germans either, I take it?

Germans don’t currently believe that americans and israelis are stealing Iraqi organs and bringing them back for transplant.

So…it’s a little different.

385 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:05:03pm

re: #367 Bagua

Hey Bagua, I will be up in a bit when I finish playing with my dinner.

386 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:05:10pm

re: #383 Tonic

lol You’re bringing up the USS Liberty conspiracy.

387 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:05:38pm

re: #383 Tonic

Holy crap. It’s fuckin’ Pat Buchanan.

388 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:05:47pm

Someone get the tin foil. We need to put a hat on the troll for the BBQ.

389 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:06:55pm

re: #386 Gus 802

lol You’re bringing up the USS Liberty conspiracy.

REMEMBER THE MAINE!11!!
Wait….

390 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:07:06pm

re: #370 Tonic

If Israel ended the blockade, so would Egypt. This wouldn’t work vice versa.

So Hamas can resume it’s rocket and bombing attacks against Israel unfettered, Right? Should they remove the security fence and issue automatic weapons to the citizens of Gaza also?

391 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:07:18pm

re: #378 Tonic

So you don’t like Germans either, I take it?

What does that mean, troll?

392 Drogheda  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:07:24pm

re: #386 Gus 802

lol You’re bringing up the USS Liberty conspiracy.

Folks who bring that up always seem to have an axe to grind.

393 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:07:28pm

re: #383 Tonic

Not sure why. Israel does whatever it can get away with. If that means bombing a US ship or forging British passports, so be it.

Wow

394 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:08:19pm

re: #371 Tonic

You idiot, this blog has always been first and foremost a supporter of Israel. Liar.

395 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:08:31pm

re: #392 Drogheda

Folks who bring that up always seem to have an axe to grind.

A rather big axe. A huge axe! That’s like a couple of degree off of “911 was an inside job!”

396 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:08:58pm

re: #378 Tonic

So you don’t like Germans either, I take it?

“Germans?”
“Forget it, he’s rolling.”

397 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:09:41pm

This is like shooting brainless fish in a barrel. I’m gonna go runs some errands, catch y’all later.

398 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:10:42pm

re: #388 Gus 802

Someone get the tin foil. We need to put a hat on the troll for the BBQ.

I’ve got it. We’ll use the foil to help cook his cheeks and forked tongue. The brains of a troll are rotten and have to be thrown out. But we need a good side dish; Reine, get the Cookbook!

399 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:11:05pm

re: #386 Gus 802

lol You’re bringing up the USS Liberty conspiracy.

He is, the putz.

400 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:11:12pm

re: #397 Slumbering Behemoth

This is like shooting brainless fish in a barrel. I’m gonna go runs some errands, catch y’all later.

You’re shooting at the barrel?
Huh, I’ve just been tossing in thermal dets.
:shrugs:

401 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:11:30pm
This is like shooting brainless fish in a barrel. I’m gonna go runs some errands, catch y’all later.

Don’t let the door hit ya!

402 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:11:45pm

re: #396 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

“Germans?”
“Forget it, he’s rolling.”

As long as he doesn’t get elected to the Senate from Connecticut. ;)

403 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:12:14pm

re: #400 Varek Raith

You’re shooting at the barrel?
Huh, I’ve just been tossing in thermal dets.
:shrugs:

That’s one way to roast a troll.

404 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:13:32pm

re: #401 Tonic

Got you on video…

Youtube Video
405 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:14:02pm

re: #392 Drogheda

Folks who bring that up always seem to have an axe to grind.

Oh. I was going to say that folks who bring that up always seem to be guano crazy, but sure, what you said will work, i guess…

406 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:15:00pm
Varek Raith

Ha! Not bad.

407 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:16:36pm

re: #401 Tonic

Don’t let the door hit ya!

Speaking of doors, what else is behind yours? 9/11 was an inside job? Regularly ‘ported up to the saucer for anal probing? 2012 is our last year on earth?

let it all out…i’m listening.

408 Drogheda  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:17:29pm

re: #405 Aceofwhat?

Oh. I was going to say that folks who bring that up always seem to be guano crazy, but sure, what you said will work, i guess…

Well I was thinking of the hateful sorts who seem to always bring it up, not the tin foil hat sorts, but yeah the tin foil hat sorts often bring it up as well.

409 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:17:34pm

Hey Tonic, I have asked you a few questions… No reply?

410 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:17:41pm
Aceofwhat?

Granted the whole thing sounds a bit batshit crazy but if you learn a bit more about the incident you’ll realise it’s more likely it wasn’t a mistake. The Captain (who was present - were you?) said it was deliberate, so did Dean Rusk.

A bit off topic but a reminder that you shouldn’t support Israel unconditionally.

411 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:18:58pm

re: #410 Tonic

Granted the whole thing sounds a bit batshit crazy but if you learn a bit more about the incident you’ll realise it’s more likely it wasn’t a mistake. The Captain (who was present - were you?) said it was deliberate, so did Dean Rusk.

A bit off topic but a reminder that you shouldn’t support Israel unconditionally.

Boy, “Forrest Gump” is really applicable tonight…Stupid is as stupid does.
We all know you can’t fix stupid.

412 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:20:25pm
So Hamas can resume it’s rocket and bombing attacks against Israel unfettered, Right? Should they remove the security fence and issue automatic weapons to the citizens of Gaza also?

It’s a complex issue and there’s obviously no easy answer. But my original point (yep, I had one) was that Israel is not doing a humanitarian job in Gaza.

413 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:20:34pm

re: #407 Aceofwhat?

Speaking of doors, what else is behind yours? 9/11 was an inside job? Regularly ‘ported up to the saucer for anal probing? 2012 is our last year on earth?

let it all out…i’m listening.

Get him drunk and he’ll probably open up about his thoughts on “911 and the Mossad.”

414 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:21:04pm

re: #410 Tonic

Who killed Jimmy Hoffa?

415 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:21:09pm
Boy, “Forrest Gump” is really applicable tonight…Stupid is as stupid does. We all know you can’t fix stupid.

Must be stupid - I have no idea where you’re getting that reference.

416 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:22:46pm

re: #410 Tonic

Granted the whole thing sounds a bit batshit crazy but if you learn a bit more about the incident you’ll realise it’s more likely it wasn’t a mistake. The Captain (who was present - were you?) said it was deliberate, so did Dean Rusk.

A bit off topic but a reminder that you shouldn’t support Israel unconditionally.

Troll, meet hammer.

417 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:24:09pm

It is an eminently simple issue. Stop trying to force war with Israel.
Israel is under NO obligation to feed people who are sworn to kill them, but they do. I wonder if the roles were reversed, which Arab nation would feed Israel?
You are simply a racist when it is boiled right down to the nitty gritty. You simply hate Jews. Anyone who works that hard to ignore the glaring truth and historical fact, is simply looking for an outlet for pure racism.

418 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:24:15pm
The USS Liberty Attack
Posted: December 16, 2003
Updated: October 6, 2008


The tragic assault by Israeli forces during the Six Day War in 1967 on an American vessel, the USS Liberty, has been a source of controversy and conspiracy theories since it occurred. Several government investigations have concluded that the attack, in which 34 American servicemen were killed and many more injured, was carried out in error. Furthermore, every piece of information declassified to date - most recently in June 2004 - has supported this conclusion.

Much of this information is available to anyone with an Internet connection. Nonetheless, many continue to allege that Israel attacked the Liberty knowing that it was an American ship and that they were killing American servicemen. For detractors of Israel, the incident - and the alleged U.S. government cover-up that followed - powerfully demonstrates the treachery and power of the Jewish State and its American supporters. The story, told from this perspective, has become a propaganda tool to undermine the legitimacy of Israel.

This article debunks the leading conspiracy theories suggesting that Israel acted malevolently.

SNIP

Conspiracy Theories

Despite the abundance of evidence that the bombing was a tragic mistake, conspiracy theories alleging that Israel intentionally attacked the Liberty have been a hallmark of conspiratorial anti-Israel propaganda since 1967. (Perhaps unsurprisingly, a number of Liberty crewmen believe the attack was intentional.)

* Why is the Liberty incident so popular among anti-Israel conspiracy theorists? The reasons are clear. If Israel knowingly attacked and killed Americans, the views of radical critics of the country are confirmed with graphic clarity. These views include: a) the belief that Israel will turn against the U.S. whenever it suits its interests; b) the belief that Israel’s control over the American political and military structure is so great that it can openly kill Americans because it knows that officials at every level will work together to cover up the crime; and c) the belief that Israel is a terrorist state.

419 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:24:43pm

re: #414 Bagua

Who killed Jimmy Hoffa?

It was the IDF, Hoffa was secretly on the “Liberty”

420 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:25:34pm

re: #415 Tonic

Must be stupid - I have no idea where you’re getting that reference.

Surprise, Surprise…he does not get it! I am SHOCKED, I tells ya!

421 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:27:29pm

re: #415 Tonic

I found something that helps show everyone where you’re coming from here.

422 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:28:02pm

Be back in an hour or so, gotta go get my daughter from work.

423 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:28:12pm

re: #420 CapeCoddah

Surprise, Surprise…he does not get it! I am SHOCKED, I tells ya!

Tonic is a stupid Troll, back in the day we used to get clever trolls, now it has come to morons like Tonic.

Send us some smarter trolls, we are suffering down here!

424 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:30:18pm

re: #423 Bagua

Well, it will make the occasional clever troll more enjoyable. But this one is good practice! I really gotta go get the kid.

425 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:33:49pm
Gus 802

Let’s say, hypothetically, it was deliberate. Would that change anything, in you view?

426 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:41:33pm

re: #425 Tonic

The fact that you even think it is marks you as a Buchananite loon, unworthy of being taken seriously.

427 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:43:23pm

re: #425 Tonic

Let’s say, hypothetically, it was deliberate. Would that change anything, in you view?

do you also suspect, as most of Turkey does, that we are harvesting organs from Iraqis?

428 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:44:39pm

re: #425 Tonic

It was not deliberate. The Israeli Navy thought they were attacking an Egyptian supply ship. This is proven in the NSA tapes and that includes Israeli Navy communications.

429 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:48:57pm

Oh look, it’s an antiwar.com troll. We don’t see too many of those.

430 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:50:53pm
Gus 802

Says I, a US surveillance ship bearing the flag looks different from a rusty Egyptian cargo boat. And if you’re attacking the ship for 30 minutes that would become apparent!

I can’t know for sure (I wasn’t there) but I will say, on the balance, it’s more likely that it was deliberate.

431 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:51:31pm

re: #430 Tonic

Go back to Stormfront, Pat.

432 MJ  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:52:35pm

Great Parody:

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World


Youtube Video
433 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:53:03pm

re: #430 Tonic

Cause, of course, all Egyptian ships are rusting hulks…. and the pilots can clearly see a 2x4 foot flag screaming past the ship at high speeds in jets.
Whatever.

434 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:53:31pm
Go back to Stormfront, Pat.

No need for that, fella!

435 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:54:03pm

re: #430 Tonic

We really can’t appreciate your genius and insight, brother. Have you tried prisonplanet?

436 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:58:54pm

Obsessive troll is obsessed.

437 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:59:16pm

re: #434 Tonic

No need for that, fella!

When you talk like you are doing, you invite replies like that. I do not believe, so I ask you: Got Proof?

438 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 5:59:55pm

re: #430 Tonic

Says I, a US surveillance ship bearing the flag looks different from a rusty Egyptian cargo boat. And if you’re attacking the ship for 30 minutes that would become apparent!

I can’t know for sure (I wasn’t there) but I will say, on the balance, it’s more likely that it was deliberate.

Where do you get these assumptions about what an Egyptian cargo ship would look like? The Liberty itself was a converted freighter and had a freighter’s lines.
If the attack was deliberate, why were the Mirage IIIs armed with 68mm rockets rather than 1000 lb pound bombs (which they could also carry)?
With their 10 lb warheads, the rockets are useful against vehicles and personnel but they are not something you would use against a ship if anything else, like large demolition bombs, were available.
For that matter, why would the Israelis use the Mirage, a capable fighter but a barely adequate attack aircraft, rather than the heavier Vautour, which had 4 times the weapons load.
The real reason is that they were diverted on the spur of the moment from a close support mission in the desert, not something you would do as part of a briefed and planned attack.

439 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:02:45pm

re: #438 Shiplord Kirel

Where do you get these assumptions about what an Egyptian cargo ship would look like? The Liberty itself was a converted freighter and had a freighter’s lines.
If the attack was deliberate, why were the Mirage IIIs armed with 68mm rockets rather than 1000 lb pound bombs (which they could also carry)?
With their 10 lb warheads, the rockets are useful against vehicles and personnel but they are not something you would use against a ship if anything else, like large demolition bombs, were available.
For that matter, why would the Israelis use the Mirage, a capable fighter but a barely adequate attack aircraft, rather than the heavier Vautour, which had 4 times the weapons load.
The real reason is that they were diverted on the spur of the moment from a close support mission in the desert, not something you would do as part of a briefed and planned attack.

Damn the facts! Full speed into that mountain-like thingy!

440 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:04:34pm

re: #438 Shiplord Kirel

That’s all a bit convoluted and circumstantial. I’d take witness testimony over your version.

I don’t expect any of the true believers here to come on board. But surely you can concede that with Dean Rusk and everyone on the ship agreeing that it was deliberate we can elevate this one above tin hat foil status.

441 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:04:51pm

re: #438 Shiplord Kirel

Where do you get these assumptions about what an Egyptian cargo ship would look like? The Liberty itself was a converted freighter and had a freighter’s lines.
If the attack was deliberate, why were the Mirage IIIs armed with 68mm rockets rather than 1000 lb pound bombs (which they could also carry)?
With their 10 lb warheads, the rockets are useful against vehicles and personnel but they are not something you would use against a ship if anything else, like large demolition bombs, were available.
For that matter, why would the Israelis use the Mirage, a capable fighter but a barely adequate attack aircraft, rather than the heavier Vautour, which had 4 times the weapons load.
The real reason is that they were diverted on the spur of the moment from a close support mission in the desert, not something you would do as part of a briefed and planned attack.

Also, why would the Mirages loiter. If it was a deliberate attack they would attack and get the hell out of there. Loitering would only extend the amount of ident time.

442 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:05:31pm

re: #439 Varek Raith

Damn the facts! Full speed into that mountain-like thingy!

Captain, we cannae do it, we don’t have the power!

443 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:05:42pm

Relevant links

Sud Aviation Vautour
Dassault Mirage III
SNEB rocket

444 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:06:45pm

re: #442 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Captain, we cannae do it, we don’t have the power!

Then we need to lighten the load. Throw out a few Red Shirts!

445 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:07:43pm

re: #440 Tonic

That’s all a bit convoluted and circumstantial. I’d take witness testimony over your version.

I don’t expect any of the true believers here to come on board. But surely you can concede that with Dean Rusk and everyone on the ship agreeing that it was deliberate we can elevate this one above tin hat foil status.

There are “experts” who agree that the World Trade Center was brought down by demo charges, that Flight 93 was brought down by an F-16, and that what hit the Pentagon was a Tomahawk cruise missile.

As a great man once said, “Facts are stubborn things.”

446 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:08:17pm

re: #440 Tonic

That’s all a bit convoluted and circumstantial. I’d take witness testimony over your version.

I don’t expect any of the true believers here to come on board. But surely you can concede that with Dean Rusk and everyone on the ship agreeing that it was deliberate we can elevate this one above tin hat foil status.

It is not convoluted except in the simplest of minds, and the identification of these weapons was made by the US Navy in its official analysis and reports. Facts matter. If you are too stupid to understand the details of these issues, don’t hold forth on them in public.

447 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:12:55pm

re: #440 Tonic

So when does your ship set sail for Gaza?

448 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:13:04pm

A. SHIP WAS SIGHTED AND RECOGNIZED AS A NAVAL SHIP 13 MILES
FROM COAST.
B. PRESENCE IN A FIGHTING AREA IS AGAINST INTERNATIONAL CUSTOM.
C. THE AREA IS NOT A COMMON PASSAGE FOR SHIPS.
D. EGYPT HAD DECLARED THE AREA CLOSED TO NEUTRALS.
E. LIBERTY RESEMBLES THE EGYPTIAN SUPPLY SHIP EL QUSEIR.
F. SHIP WAS NOT FLYING FLAG WHEN SIGHTED. SHE MOVED AT QUOTE
HIGH SPEED UNQUOTE WESTWARD TOWARD ENEMY COAST.
G. IDF NAVY HAD EARLIER REPORTS OF BOMBARDMENT OF EL-ARISH FROM
SEA.

449 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:13:22pm

re: #440 Tonic

That’s all a bit convoluted and circumstantial. I’d take witness testimony over your version.

I don’t expect any of the true believers here to come on board. But surely you can concede that with Dean Rusk and everyone on the ship agreeing that it was deliberate we can elevate this one above tin hat foil status.

No, I will not elevate it even to the level of tin-foil hattery, it is Goebbels-inspired Jew-hate propaganda.
Those on board say they were attacked deliberately. Well, so what? Nobody has claimed that the weapons hit the ship by complete accident. From the ship, nobody would really know whether it had been identified correctly by those issuing the orders to attack. Dean Rusk, for his part, was Johnson’s Secretary of State. He could rarely open his mouth without lying.

451 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:16:30pm

Wait, you guys are actually trying to convince him he’s wrong? Doing linking and shit? Come on. He knows what went down.

452 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:16:36pm

If Tonic is so fucking smart, why can’t it figure out how to click on either the “reply” button or “quote” button?

453 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:17:23pm

re: #452 MandyManners

If Tonic is so fucking smart, why can’t it figure out how to click on either the “reply” button or “quote” button?

He’s only been registered since 2005. Give him time.

454 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:18:08pm

Theme song for Tonic:

“Suicide Activists on the Gaza Flotilla”

Youtube Video
455 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:18:54pm

Audio Recordings & Transcripts

Within an hour of learning that the Liberty had been torpedoed the Director, NSA, LTG Marshall S. Carter, USA, sent a message to all intercept sites requesting a special search of all communications that might reflect the attack or reaction. No communications were available. However, one of the airborne platforms, a U.S. Navy EC-121, had collected voice conversations between two Israeli helicopter pilots and the control tower at Hazor Airfield following the attack on the Liberty. The recordings are in Hebrew and contain time counts in English that were added by the intercept operator.

456 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:19:18pm

re: #449 Shiplord Kirel

Goebbels inspired? Easy on, take a few deep ones!

The witnesses to the incident are valuable because they are in a position to assess the visibility of the ship as being a United States vessel relative to the aircraft.

Yes, Dean Rusk lied but he had nothing to gain by lying about this.

457 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:19:34pm

re: #453 JasonA

Not bad, not bad.

458 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:19:37pm

U.S.S. Liberty- NSA/CSS

459 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:19:39pm

Ooop, this is the theme song, the prior video was to educate Tonic:

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con The World

Youtube Video
460 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:20:29pm

re: #457 Tonic

Not bad, not bad.

You’re really starting to inspire me to greatness.

461 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:21:15pm

This brings back memories. Zedushka was grappling with “Liberty” douche-trolls back in the day of Prodigy and CompuServe. We have James (Anus) Ennes ears on a necklace in the basement somewhere.

462 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:21:17pm

re: #453 JasonA

He’s only been registered since 2005. Give him time.

Good one.

463 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:21:41pm

re: #455 Gus 802

Accepted. Not a smoking gun though.

464 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:22:05pm

re: #453 JasonA

He’s only been registered since 2005. Give him time.

It seems to have figured it out.

465 Gus  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:22:22pm

Anyway. It’s a waste of time. The USS Liberty conspiracy theorists were one of the Original Truthers™.

466 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:22:23pm

re: #463 Tonic

Accepted. Not a smoking gun though.

…

YOU are the one who needs the smoking gun.

467 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:23:01pm

re: #466 JasonA

…

YOU are the one who needs the smoking gun.

In bed.

468 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:23:18pm

re: #466 JasonA

…

YOU are the one who needs the smoking gun.

He already has a smoking blunt.

469 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:23:25pm

re: #467 MandyManners

In bed.

I like it rough, but geez…

470 Tonic  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:24:17pm
I like it rough

I’m going to take that out of context

471 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:27:41pm

re: #470 Tonic

Cool. While you’re at it, would you mind hitting that button up in the top left that says “Log Out?” I can’t seem to reach it.

472 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:27:55pm

re: #470 Tonic

I’m going to take that out of context

Dude, you’re a Liberty conspiracy theorist. Context waved bye-bye to you a looong time ago…

473 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:27:57pm

re: #456 Tonic

Goebbels inspired? Easy on, take a few deep ones!

The witnesses to the incident are valuable because they are in a position to assess the visibility of the ship as being a United States vessel relative to the aircraft.

Yes, Dean Rusk lied but he had nothing to gain by lying about this.

-Would you deny the popularity of your position among antisemites?
-The testimony of witnesses aboard the ship is indeed valuable but not definitive in terms of the intentions and thought processes of the Israeli controllers. At the very least, the crew could see their ship and their actions a great deal more clearly than the Israelis could.
-You don’t really know what Rusk might have had to gain by lying. Why suppose that a manipulative liar would start telling the truth as soon as he says what you want to hear?

474 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:33:08pm

re: #440 Tonic

Um, it is the conspiracy theory that is convoluted, as conspiracy theories tend to be. You are dead wrong, and you sound plain foolish. Keep spouting it, at least you are good for a chuckle.
I am embarrassed for you, as you apparently do not understand that your opinions are so far off the mark, you should be embarrassed yourself.

475 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:34:09pm

Thinking about those Prodigy troll wars, I remember when Zedushka received his very first Internet death threat. It was during Desert Storm and troll promised to kill Zedushka and the President of the United States on the same day (GHWB was visiting our area).

We printed out the threat on our trusty old dot matrix printer and called the FBI, and the Secret Service was at our house within 30 minutes.

476 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:36:41pm

re: #475 Alouette

We printed out the threat on our trusty old dot matrix printer and called the FBI, and the Secret Service was at our house within 30 minutes.

Was it at least written well? I see all the hate mail these days and it breaks my English-major heart.

477 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:37:57pm

re: #476 JasonA

Was it at least written well? I see all the hate mail these days and it breaks my English-major heart.

Same incoherent crap as you see today.

Now, the troll-posts during the Civil War, those were eloquent!

478 MandyManners  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 6:41:54pm

re: #474 CapeCoddah

Good to see you!

479 Stuart Leviton  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:03:40pm

re: #3 Gus 802President Obama, please, while you are forcing Israel to ease the blockade (to Israel’s own detriment) at least allow Israel to save face. Mr President, demand
1) that Shalit be released, alive, well and unharmed and
2) that all attacks from Gaza cease.

and Mr. President, Hamas has been firing missiles at Israel for the past several days and they have sent in terrorists all in the attempt to provoke an Israeli response. Take that to your security council. Take that to the American public on television. You are President of The United States of America. Let Freedom ring.

480 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:06:41pm

re: #471 JasonA

Cool. While you’re at it, would you mind hitting that button up in the top left that says “Log Out?” I can’t seem to reach it.

Looks like it took your advice.

481 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:36:43pm

Does everyone just look at the numbers in the article and decide that they’re meaningful because they’re big? The population of Gaza is 1.5 million. Granted, not everyone is poor and starving. About one million of those people are poor, starving refugees, and those are the people the aid is targeting. So lets look at some of the numbers in context: in the first 3 months of the year Israel has provided 69 rations of rice per person. They have provided 8 hamburgers per person.

To claim that Israel is keeping people from starving is a bit of a stretch. Yes, they provide some aid, but not enough to adequately help anyone.

482 captdiggs  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:40:00pm

The world’s gone mad.
Hamas is the reincarnation of Mother Theresa and Israel is branded the new nazi Germany by the*international community*. The Jews ( yes, they mean Jews not “Israelis”) deserve every rocket that lands on them, and the poor starving (//) palestinians are the direct descendants of Ghandi and Martin Luther King.

It’s just plain depressing to see this.

483 Tigger2005  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:50:27pm

re: #86 golgoth

Now hold on a second here.

A second. That’s about your attention span, apparently.

You seem to think the world springs full blown into being over and over again, second by second, that there is no past, no history, no past actions, no consequences stemming from those past actions.

In your world, Israel blockades Gaza just because it wants to, because it’s big and bad and feels like it. In your world, Israel never withdrew from Gaza, leaving the Palestinians with infrastructure, donated state-of-the-art greenhouses, all the raw materials needed to build a thriving economy. In your world, the Palestinians never trashed that infrastructure all by themselves, never elected a gang of terrorist thugs as their leaders, never rained thousands of rockets on Israel, necessitating an armed incursion by Israel to stop the bombardment and protect its citizens. In fact, the moment Israel invaded Gaza, the Hamas missile bombardment vanished from your memory, and Israel was invading just because it’s something that big bad Jews do, dontcha know. In your world, Hamas doesn’t have and never had a charter that rejects a two-state solution and calls for Israel’s destruction.

I wonder if there was or is any other conflict on Earth where you would be so forgetful (I mean, we are talking dementia-level forgetfulness here) about the reasons behind it and the history of it…that these decisions and actions by this side had these consequences, that these decisions and actions by the other side had these consequences, and so on. You may not agree with the firebombing of Dresden or the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but you would probably never claim that these things just happened out of the blue, that one fine peaceful day Britain and the U.S. just said, “Hey, let’s kill us a bunch of Germans and Japanese!” and proceeded to spend billions developing and building bombers, fighter planes, bombs, and atomic warheads to do the dirty deed, while the unsuspecting Germans frolicked in the foothills of the Alps and the Japanese wrote each other love poems.

Yet this is precisely what you do in the case of the Israel/Hamas conflict. Israel doesn’t allow certain things into Gaza…why? All the history behind this decision, all the reasons, the facts, simply vanish from your mind, become invisible to you. It’s quite remarkable really.

484 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:52:47pm

re: #483 Tigger2005

And in your world there are nothing but straw men than are easily obliterated by your omnipotence.

485 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:02:01pm

re: #484 samuraishake

What “strawmen” are those?

486 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:04:31pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

He just seems to know an awful lot about what a stranger on the internet is thinking. And I’m taking a wild guess that he filled in missing pieces with his own conceptions.

487 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:08:36pm

re: #475 Alouette

Thinking about those Prodigy troll wars, I remember when Zedushka received his very first Internet death threat. It was during Desert Storm and troll promised to kill Zedushka and the President of the United States on the same day (GHWB was visiting our area).

We printed out the threat on our trusty old dot matrix printer and called the FBI, and the Secret Service was at our house within 30 minutes.

Now, that’s a classy death threat! Zedushka should feel flattered.

(I’m happy both he and President Bush are in good health.)

488 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:10:49pm

re: #486 samuraishake

That’s not my read. I’m just taking it as him countering anti-Israel talking points. We’ve been getting those alot lately.

489 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:13:30pm

re: #484 samuraishake

And in your world there are nothing but straw men than are easily obliterated by your omnipotence.

Do you know how much the UN and the US give the Arabs? Under the heading of “refugee status” here is a PDF from 2009.

[Link: www.unrwa.org…]

UNRWA gives millions to refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Gaza and the West Bank. A great many of those people shouldn’t even be under the UNRWA program since they’re citizens of their mother countries.

The U.S. has loaned over $96 million to Gaza and the West Bank for “microfinance” and “microenterprise”. Another $17M in pledges and contributions and more in education, health and social services.

Other years are listed here: [Link: www.unrwa.org…]

Where has this money gone?

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:16:08pm

Oddly, I don’t recall this kind of nitpicking back in 2009, when UNRWA simply stopped aid to Gaza for a while because Hamas was stealing everything they brought in.

491 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:16:10pm

re: #489 marjoriemoon

$96 million? So $96 per person, and you wonder why they aren’t thriving?

492 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:19:00pm

re: #491 samuraishake

$96 million? So $96 per person, and you wonder why they aren’t thriving?

I don’t think anyone wonders why they aren’t thriving. That’s brutally clear, and certainly isn’t because the UN hasn’t pitched enough money into the Gaza sinkhole.

Now, tell me what you think would happen if the blockade was lifted.

493 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:20:07pm

re: #491 samuraishake

$96 million? So $96 per person, and you wonder why they aren’t thriving?

They aren’t thriving because they use every bit of surplus they get to prosecute a war of genocide against Israel.

494 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:20:26pm

We have not had such a lame trollnami in a long time.

495 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:20:49pm

re: #491 samuraishake

$96 million? So $96 per person, and you wonder why they aren’t thriving?

That money was for financing, enterprise, and industry. What is their industry?

496 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:20:52pm

re: #492 SanFranciscoZionist

How should I know what would happen? I’m not debating the blockade, or the attack, or anything else. I’m debating the fact that people say big numbers and think that its somehow significant. There’s poor/starving/homeless people in Gaza. Regardless of the merits of it, you can’t list numbers and say there’s no humanitarian crisis there.

497 jaunte  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:24:50pm

re: #496 samuraishake

This may shed some light on the situation:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

498 What, me worry?  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:24:56pm

re: #496 samuraishake

How should I know what would happen? I’m not debating the blockade, or the attack, or anything else. I’m debating the fact that people say big numbers and think that its somehow significant. There’s poor/starving/homeless people in Gaza. Regardless of the merits of it, you can’t list numbers and say there’s no humanitarian crisis there.

You don’t get it. Money has been going into Palestine for 60 years. Nothing has come out of it. Why don’t you do a little reading before you spout off.

499 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:27:21pm

re: #498 marjoriemoon

You obviously don’t get what I’m saying. Oh well, keep listing big numbers to placate yourself. I won’t be impressed.

500 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:30:38pm

re: #499 samuraishake

And you keep throwing insults, I’ll keep downdinging your ass.

501 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:34:01pm

re: #500 Dark_Falcon

Oh, I’m supposed to care about downdinging? I’ll downding you for swearing.

Seriously, I’m the only person here not taking sides. But the moment I thrown the context of the numbers into question everyone sharts a brick.

502 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:39:38pm

re: #496 samuraishake

How should I know what would happen? I’m not debating the blockade, or the attack, or anything else. I’m debating the fact that people say big numbers and think that its somehow significant. There’s poor/starving/homeless people in Gaza. Regardless of the merits of it, you can’t list numbers and say there’s no humanitarian crisis there.

If a crisis exists in Gaza, then it is of Hamas’ making, not Israel’s. It was Hamas who launched dozens of rockets and mortar rounds into Israel from Gaza, provoking them into establishing the blockade. And it is now Hamas who controls what aid and supplies will enter Gaza and how it will be distributed. If a humanitarian crisis exists, then it is Hamas, not Israel, who should answer for it.

503 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:40:47pm

re: #501 samuraishake

Oh, I’m supposed to care about downdinging? I’ll downding you for swearing.

Seriously, I’m the only person here not taking sides. But the moment I thrown the context of the numbers into question everyone sharts a brick.

Well then, here’s you chance. What do you think of the situation? Go ahead and explain your view.

504 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:42:16pm

re: #502 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That’s a fair assessment. Which I’ve never denied. Given that, I still stand by my assessment of the numbers being out-of-context and meaningless.

505 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:44:12pm

re: #503 Dark_Falcon

Well then, here’s you chance. What do you think of the situation? Go ahead and explain your view.


Nope, I will not be pigeon-holed.

506 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:46:05pm

re: #504 samuraishake

That’s a fair assessment. Which I’ve never denied. Given that, I still stand by my assessment of the numbers being out-of-context and meaningless.

Very possible. However, considering that the entity responsible for the acceptance and distribution of aid and supplies has every reason to lie about how they’re being handled, it’s hard to take any numbers seriously.

507 samuraishake  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:48:10pm

re: #506 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

it’s hard to take any numbers seriously

A good life-lesson

508 Tigger2005  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:02:39pm

re: #496 samuraishake

How should I know what would happen? I’m not debating the blockade, or the attack, or anything else. I’m debating the fact that people say big numbers and think that its somehow significant. There’s poor/starving/homeless people in Gaza. Regardless of the merits of it, you can’t list numbers and say there’s no humanitarian crisis there.

There are poor/starving/homeless people everywhere. Most of them have no choice in the matter. Many of them are not getting ANY kind of assistance whatsoever. Certainly nothing like the Gazans are getting from Israel, the U.N. and other sources.

The Gazans could have chosen a government other than Hamas. They could have chosen to retain the infrastructure, the greenhouses, etc. left behind by Israel, instead of destroying it. They could have chosen building a society and economy. They could have chosen peace. They chose war. They forced Israel to respond to protect itself. Now Israel, a very small country hurting economically itself, with its own poor to care for, is doing its damndest to keep people who hate it fed and clothed while preventing them from rearming so they can kill more Jews. You should be in fucking AWE at the humanity of a people who would lift even a finger to help those who elected a government sworn to their destruction.

As for this so-called humanitarian crisis…I won’t deny that most Gazans live at poverty level. But if there’s one thing Palestinians are extremely good at, it’s propaganda, and if there was a genuine, full-blown crisis there, they wouldn’t just be claiming it, they’d be SHOWING it. TV screens worldwide would be filled with images of the suffering. Yet a Danish reporter goes to Gaza at the invitation of Palestinian friends to document this crisis, and finds markets heaped high with fruits and vegetables, and no long lines or people fighting over the last date. This does not exactly fit most peoples’ definition of a “crisis.”

509 Tigger2005  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:05:41pm

re: #505 samuraishake

Nope, I will not be pigeon-holed.

How is explaining your view being pigeon-holed?

510 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:10:50pm

re: #481 samuraishake

Does everyone just look at the numbers in the article and decide that they’re meaningful because they’re big?

The numbers are not meaningful because they’re “big”, you fucking idiot.

They are meaningful because this aid comes from a nation that the governing body of Gaza has sworn to destroy. A nation that despite having to endure thousands of rocket attacks every year on their civilian populations, still regularly sends aid into the enemy territory. A nation that bends over backwards to the point of nearly breaking it’s own spine to accommodate the sensibilities of absolute idiots the world over.

And still, they get regularly and monumentally shat upon by every two-bit politician and pontificator in the known world.

*SPIT!*

511 Tigger2005  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:59:07pm

I notice that samuraishake calls the numbers “out of context and meaningless.” He himself takes numbers out of context. He says “in the first three months of the year… (Israel) has provided 8 hamburgers per person.”

Actually, samuraishake, the article says that the 11,000 head of cattle, enough to provide 8.8 million meals of beef, were shipped in for Ramadan (a monthlong observance, with fasting from dawn to sunset) and Eid al-Adha (a typically 3-day observance). So those 8.8 million meals are divided among about 33-35 days, not 90.

The article does not mention how much cattle (or frozen beef) was shipped in the remainder of those three months, or how much chicken, fish, and other kinds of halal meat was also shipped in, for the observances or for the remainder of the three months.

Also consider that babies and very young children would eat no or very little beef (this last consideration applies to all foods…babies would eat formula, breast milk or baby foods, children would eat around 1/4 to 1/2 of adult servings). The article does divide the amounts equally among all Gazans to make a point, and it’s true that’s a little misleading…but not, when you look it it more closely, in a way that’s detrimental to the overall case being made.

512 Querent  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:04:18pm

re: #285 Gang of One

Can one piss up a skillet?

Confucious say: Woman who cook carrots and peas in same pot — very unsanitary…

(makes no sense typed out — everything when spoken)

513 shai_au  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:27:07pm

Didn’t Charles post some bloggingheads video a while back - an interview with some scholar living in Gaza? It was very, very good, but I can’t remember exactly where I watched it.

Maybe it was from Andrew Sullivan. I’ll see if I can find it.

514 shai_au  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:29:48pm

Heh, that was quick! There you go. Give it a watch, if you haven’t already.

515 Timmeh  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:50:03pm

re: #514 shai_au

Heh, that was quick! There you go. Give it a watch, if you haven’t already.

I have seen this video.

IIRC he said that while basic necessities were not in short supply, that there were some arbitrary bans and also that the power was turned on and off, causing blackouts, which hurts the economy.

I understand that this is one of the few levers that Israel has to pressure Hamas as they are holding an Israeli soldier hostage.

I wish it was possible to punish only Hamas and leave innocents unharmed, but that is impossible in this world. People suffer when their leaders (elected in this case) make bad decisions.

516 bj  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 4:26:43am

flotilla of fools going viral:

Youtube Video
517 I Am Kreniigh!  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 9:19:48am

I’m more familiar with American politics than Israeli, so I came here with what I hope is an open mind. I’ve found some very informative and useful posts on the pro-Israel side that have given me some welcome perspective.

I guess my main question is (to repeat what Golgoth asked before that conversation got vitriolic):

What is Israel supposed to do in the long term?

It seems to me that they’re locked in a cycle with, shall we say, a bad actor (Hamas/Palestine), and that this cycle forces them to do things that can be misrepresented by Hamas and misconstrued by the outside world, which perpetuates the cycle.

So what are they supposed to do? What are we, the rest of the world, supposed to expect from them? If the point of view of those who are solidly on the side of Israel — most of the people here — is correct, then Israel is the only rational actor in this cycle… The other side is too hateful and irrational to be reasoned with, placated, or cowed into working toward breaking the cycle.

So from a practical standpoint, as the only rational actor in the cycle, Israel seems to have the most power to break it. It may not be possible. I sure don’t have a good idea of how to do it. But I think that some of the frustration with Israel, in the world, comes not from anti-Semitism, but from a sense that Israel is the good guy, the adult in all of this, and therefore ought to be finding a way to break the cycle. Because their enemies won’t, and so if Israel can’t, it will never end.

I know I’m asking a lot, especially since I don’t have a solution either. But the alternative is either perpetual conflict or some kind of horrible incident.

518 anova  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 9:27:38am

More turkish hypocrisy: click here

519 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 9:47:01am

re: #518 anova

More turkish hypocrisy: click here

Here’s my favorite bit of Turkish hypocricy and irony:

The flotilla departed from Turkish-occupied northern Cyprus. Turkey’s occupation of half of Cyprus is deemed illegal by the European Union and the United Nations. If the government of Turkey feels so strongly about ending disputed occupations, why does it not start with the disputed occupation it is operating itself?
520 What, me worry?  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 9:56:44am

re: #514 shai_au

I wanted to comment, at least in part on that interview. I listened to half of it. I couldn’t take much more.

First what struck me is that he blames Israel for everything with little to no responsibility towards Hamas. And when he’s not blaming Israel, he’s blaming Fatah.

What people may or may not know, Hamas was the enemy of Arafat. They were men who didn’t agree with Arafat’s “diplomacy” when he showed any. Arafat made these diplomatic overtures to con the international community that he was willing to negotiate when he never was, but he didn’t want to look like the bad guy (just act like the bad guy…). At any rate, Hamas was formed because they wanted to cut that BS. They also wanted to usurp power from Arafat, but they really couldn’t. After his death, they went after Abbas because Abbas was weak and didn’t have the power, command, or reputation of Arafat.

Anyway, Fatah and the Al-Asqa Brigade (Arafat’s ”army”) weren’t cream puffs, by far. They worked against Israel, but Hamas was ruthless. Now this man in the video said one thing I 100% completely support. He said that the international community accepted the elections in Gaza. They basically told the Palestinian people, “We want you to have democracy, so vote!” So they did, but for who? If Hamas was unacceptable, why were the elections in Gaza encouraged? This is a head scratcher and one I agree with him. You can’t tell the people to vote for anyone and then when the vote in a terrorist government, yell at them for doing so.

Bush was all about democracy so he also supported the elections, but he knew what Hamas was/is. That was his misstep. They should have been roundly condemned from the start. It would be like if David Duke was encouraged to run and then everyone shit when he actually won.

But this has always been the problem. The international community does not condemn Hamas. They support it and by doing that, they further enslave the people. Israel is doing what it can to protect itself, but as long as the Gazans themselves support Hamas, give support to terror, they will never be FREE. This man is brainwashed, this intelligent, college educated man is brainwashed by Hamas. How can he ever hope for freedom for his people? He admits in this video that the people are not free, that Hamas curtails freedom of speech, freedom of the press, but still says it’s Israel’s fault.

His mind is skewed, evidenced by his statement that Israel created the problem in 1948. WRONG. The UN created the problem for not forcing the Arabs to take the partition. The Jews were attacked by 5 Arab countries. And the UN even blamed the Arabs for the war! See here:

UN Resolution 44:
[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org…]

Having rejected the Partition Resolution, the Arabs set out forcibly to abort it. Local Arab forces, assisted by an army of volunteers from neighbouring countries, attacked Jewish villages and towns. The United Nations Palestine Commission, set up to implement the Resolution, could not perform its task because it lacked the means and authority and the Mandatory Government did not allow it to enter Palestine. On 24 February 1948, the Security Council began to discuss the situation. On 1 April, it passed the following Resolution calling for a truce, and decided to convene a special session of the General Assembly “to consider further the question of the future government of Palestine” (Resolution S/715).

I’m not going to go on, but as to the fuel supply in Gaza, here’s the story when the Arabs bombed the fuel supply and killed IDF soldiers at the Nahal Oz crossing.
[Link: www.ynet.co.il…]
So now you complain Israel won’t give you lights. BTW, after this was destroyed, Israel opened another fuel supply with double capacity of this one.


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