Since when have facts stood in the way of Ron Paul? He splits atoms with his mind (although with his anti-science positions, who knows if he actually believes in atoms...)

the Truth is dead...makes it really difficult and frustrating for some of us...brazen deceit rules

Showing your true colors, you fucker.

The national GOP needs to condemn the shit out of Ron Paul. I don't know how ousting someone from the party works, but they really should eject this loon. At the very least, there should be condemnation in the house and the senate and a withdrawal of any funding or endorsement from any GOP official or official body.

"Non=Interventionist." Newspeak for isolationist, right?

Next, the echo from Rand. Then, fireworks among the teapartiers.

I'm still waiting and hoping.

re: #2 albusteve

Agreed. It is very tiresome to figure out wtf is going on these days.

Just in case this somehow slipped the nets, the latest "Free Gaza Movement" ship headed towards the blockade is ... the Rachel Corrie.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

re: #7 Diamond Bullet

Just in case this somehow slipped the nets, the latest "Free Gaza Movement" ship headed towards the blockade is ... the Rachel Corrie.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The ship of ghouls, fools, and tools.

Ron Paul once again proves he is full of shit.

re: #4 JasonA

"Non=Interventionist." Newspeak for isolationist, right?

"Interventionist" = "neo-con"

This is what you get when people let ideologues do their thinking for them.

Imus has a face for radio and a voice for print.

Like I was sayin' last night, if people are starvin' in Gaza, then folks should be holding Hamas' feet to the fire, not Israel's. It was Hamas who provoked Israel into setting the blockade in place and continue to do so with rocket attacks and mortar barrages. And Hamas, as the "legitimate" authority in Gaza, is ultimately in charge of where the aid and supplies go and who gets a crack at them.

But holding Hamas responsible for their own situation would mean actually saying Israel is right and we know that's a no-no, especially to loonies like Paul and his fellow travelers.

Lets ask Rand Paul how he feels about his father's statements!

This "concentration camp" analogy is really pissing me off more and more.

re: #10 wrenchwench

"Interventionist" = "neo-con"

///Wait I thought Neco-Con = Jew...

///Wait wait, wait, it all makes sense now!

re: #3 Obdicut

Showing your true colors, you fucker.

The national GOP needs to condemn the shit out of Ron Paul.

agree 100%

re: #13 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There were more rocket attacks yesterday, by the way.

Pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid in the United States.

That's why the peace terrorists were so desperate to smuggle in all those expired meds.

[Link: townhall.com...]

Then you have the moron idiot BNP associate nazi apologist 'Sean Hannity the "GREAT" Pat Buchanan" to chime in his idiotic closet anti semite drive to the chorus.

re: #15 JasonA

This "concentration camp" analogy is really pissing me off more and more.

yeah that's pretty fucked up

re: #3 Obdicut

Showing your true colors, you fucker.

The national GOP needs to condemn the shit out of Ron Paul. I don't know how ousting someone from the party works, but they really should eject this loon. At the very least, there should be condemnation in the house and the senate and a withdrawal of any funding or endorsement from any GOP official or official body.

Agreed. I took some time yesterday to think about what Sarah Palin should say about this:

Ron, I'm sorry but that's just not true. Israel donates an immense amount of aid to Gaza and lets in additional as as long as its not usable for weaponry. (insert statistics here) To spread lies like that against people trying to protect their nation from totalitarian murderers is wrong, and its not what the Republican Party is about. And Ron, if you can't understand that then you really aren't a part of our party.

In the real world, of course, the tame interviewers she deals with will never ask Sarah Palin the question, nor would she likely think such and action beneficial.

re: #15 JasonA

This "concentration camp" analogy is really pissing me off more and more.

That's no by happenstance. The words are meant ti elict a visceral response.

If you are upset about Gaza, you are upset at Israel. If you are upset at Israel you are upset a Jews.

Last week Buchanan declared Israel was responsible for 9/11- an event that elicits a more than deserved emotional response. If Israel is the demon then Jews are Satan incarnate.

It's To Kill A Mockingbird all over again, only this time on steroids.

Heh. Al Jazeera cameraman confirms the IDF version of events.

Activists on a Gaza-bound Turkish ship seized four Israeli marines before other commandos stormed aboard using live ammunition, a Lebanese cameraman said in an account on Thursday that echoed elements of Israeli testimony.

There were sharp differences in the versions of Monday's events at sea on the cruise liner Mavi Marmara. Witnesses freed after three days incommunicado in Israel accused troops of war crimes; Israel held to its line that they fired in self-defence.

But the account from Andre Abu Khalil, a cameraman for Al Jazeera TV, echoed other testimony, from both sides, that after an initial landing by a small group of commandos armed with anti-riot weapons was overpowered by activists wielding sticks, a second wave of marines stormed in, killing those in their way.

Israeli troops insist they killed 9 men only after being fired on by two activists who seized pistols from marines; many of those aboard the ship say they saw no activists shooting.

Abu Khalil told Reuters by telephone from the southern Lebanese village of Marjayoun: "There were four Israeli soldiers brought to the lowest deck. They had fracture wounds."

The soldiers were apparently captured during attempts to descend to the ship from helicopters, Abu Khalil heard from activists who had been on the top deck of the Mavi Marmara.

re: #24 lawhawk

Heh. Al Jazeera cameraman confirms the IDF version of events.

They told the truth. They'll be fired.

re: #18 JasonA

There were more rocket attacks yesterday, by the way.

Yeah I saw mention of that here last night. But don't expect it to get major coverage by the MSM, that would ruin the good hategasm that the anti-Israel crowd's got goin' on. Hamas are the "victims" and the world needs to help them by jabbing another dagger in Israel's back.

re: #25 researchok

They told the truth. They'll be fired.

Or beheaded.

re: #25 researchok

They told the truth. They'll be fired.

If only that were the worst thing that is likely to befall them.

The choice of words is quite deliberate. It's a purposeful means to undermine Israel's right to exist - to expropriate the terms relating to the Holocaust and demeans the very history of the Holocaust and the founding of Israel. He's far from the first and wont be the last to do so. But we should rightfully slam him for every utterance.

There are no concentration camps in Gaza or Israel. Israel is not acting like the Nazis, but that's the imagery that Paul hopes to invoke when he makes these asinine statements.

In doing so, he's feeding the pro-terrorist propagandists and plays right into the hands of the Islamists around the world.

There ain't no fool like a crazy old fool.

re: #15 JasonA

This "concentration camp" analogy is really pissing me off more and more.

Yes, this certainly looks like a Concentration Camp.

Can't you see they're suffering?

The horror. THE HORROR.

re: #25 researchok

They told the truth. They'll be fired.

Al Jazeera, weirdly enough, may be one of the biggest hopes for reform in the Muslim world. I'm not saying their reportage is fair, but it is yards better than the strict propaganda put out by the Muslim governments in the region.

If no one has said it yet, allow me:

F*ck you, Ron

Props to the IDF for not lighting that ship up like a Christmas tree:
"Go Back To Auschwitz", Mavi Marmara To Israeli Navy

The Israeli Defence Forces Spokesman's Unit has released disturbing audio footage of the communications between the Israeli Navy and the Mavi Marmara shortly before the Israeli commando operation that went so wrong killing nine people.
“This is the Israeli Navy. You are approaching an area which is under a naval blockade” begins the recording
“Shut up, go back to Auschwitz”, comes a reply from the ship

Take your "peace" and shove it up your fucking ass.

re: #29 lawhawk

I don't recall anyone ever accusing him of telling the truth.

re: #20 Oh no...Sand People!

[Link: townhall.com...]

Then you have the moron idiot BNP associate nazi apologist 'Sean Hannity the "GREAT" Pat Buchanan" to chime in his idiotic closet anti semite drive to the chorus.

In that article, PukeCannon compares Israel's blockade of Gaza to the Soviet blockade of Berlin. I'm not even going to go into how this comparison is a fail, It's just too stupid.

Gaza is dysfunctional. People are suffering there, especially the children who have to grow up in it. We need to motivate the main players on both sides to put an end to the suffering.

re: #37 ralphieboy

Gaza is dysfunctional. People are suffering there, especially the children who have to grow up in it. We need to motivate the main players on both sides to put an end to the suffering.

You can't reason with the insane.

re: #13 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I was sayin' last night, if people are starvin' in Gaza, then folks should be holding Hamas' feet to the fire, not Israel's. It was Hamas who provoked Israel into setting the blockade in place and continue to do so with rocket attacks and mortar barrages. And Hamas, as the "legitimate" authority in Gaza, is ultimately in charge of where the aid and supplies go and who gets a crack at them.

But holding Hamas responsible for their own situation would mean actually saying Israel is right and we know that's a no-no, especially to loonies like Paul and his fellow travelers.

Indeed. My other question is what was the condition of Gaza prior to 2007? You would think these people just landed on the scene 3 years ago. That life in Gaza was all flowers and unicorns .

Prior to the blockade, Israel didn't block the sea and 100s of weapons poured in. The Jews left Gaza and things got WORSE not better. So go cry me a river.

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Not a chance in hell SArah Palin would manage anything that articulate. Her Tweet screeds usually have the resemblance of something put together using a Spanish refrigerator magnet Poetry tile set.

Top Sarah Palin aide once advised President Nixon on how to dump Jews from govt service.

A top adviser to GOP star Sarah Palin was once dispatched by ex-President Richard Nixon to sweep Jews out of government service, newly released tapes show.

Nixon aide Fred Malek's role as what Democrats call a "Jew counter" for the disgraced President was already well known, and he has spent decades apologizing for activities that later cost him a Republican National Committee job in the 1980s. But he remains a prominent GOP powerbroker.

"The government is full of Jews," Nixon griped to chief aide H.R. Haldeman in a July 1971 Oval Office recording released by the University of Virginia's Miller Center on Thursday. "Most Jews are disloyal."

The Republican President, who resigned amid the Watergate scandal in 1974, said he wanted Malek in charge of cleaning Jews out of "any sensitive areas."

And people wonder why Jews are leery of the GOP and keep voting generally for Democrats? This, and the Ron Paul insanity, don't help.

re: #6 brennant

Agreed. It is very tiresome to figure out wtf is going on these days.

Reading LGF helps enormously. Better fact-checking than the NYT.

(Ok, that's not saying much, but you get the idea).

I love Pat Condell and welcome any downdings of pseudo self righteousness and 'diversity'.

re: #29 lawhawk

The choice of words is quite deliberate. It's a purposeful means to undermine Israel's right to exist - to expropriate the terms relating to the Holocaust and demeans the very history of the Holocaust and the founding of Israel. He's far from the first and wont be the last to do so. But we should rightfully slam him for every utterance.

There are no concentration camps in Gaza or Israel. Israel is not acting like the Nazis, but that's the imagery that Paul hopes to invoke when he makes these asinine statements.

In doing so, he's feeding the pro-terrorist propagandists and plays right into the hands of the Islamists around the world.

It's also a dog-whistle to the Holocaust denial element out there in Conspiracy Nation. Paul is not a denier himself but he certainly has a large amount of support from them. Hard-core Stormfronters nevertheless question his white nationalist bona fides, since he is not able to speak overtly about it. This kind of language from Paul can help re-assure them that he is, in fact, on their side of the fence.

re: #43 Oh no...Sand People!

I love him too but I disagree. I can't really care. They bought it fair and square, the American way. If you don't like it buy 'em out.

re: #32 Obdicut

Al Jazeera, weirdly enough, may be one of the biggest hopes for reform in the Muslim world. I'm not saying their reportage is fair, but it is yards better than the strict propaganda put out by the Muslim governments in the region.

Did you see the latest dust-up within the news group involving the 6 female staffers quiting due to having dress codes imposed?

They are still a tool organization. Sorry.

re: #37 ralphieboy

Gaza is dysfunctional. People are suffering there, especially the children who have to grow up in it. We need to motivate the main players on both sides to put an end to the suffering.

To do that, one must condemn Hamas, often and loudly.

re: #44 Shiplord Kirel

It's also a dog-whistle to the Holocaust denial element out there in Conspiracy Nation. Paul is not a denier himself but he certainly has a large amount of support from them. Hard-core Stormfronters nevertheless question his white nationalist bona fides, since he is not able to speak overtly about it. This kind of language from Paul can help re-assure them that he is, in fact, on their side of the fence.

And, aside from all that you two just said - it's callous and mean.

re: #40 steve_davis

Not a chance in hell SArah Palin would manage anything that articulate. Her Tweet screeds usually have the resemblance of something put together using a Spanish refrigerator magnet Poetry tile set.

Sarah's writers put a note on her facebook page about the flotilla:
[Link: www.facebook.com...]

We can only hope the Obama Administration does not join the anti-Israel chorus in the aftermath of this staged confrontation. Please, Mr. President, we need to let Israelis know we stand with them in their fight against terrorists and those who arm and support them. America and her ally, Israel, stand by waiting for your response.

That's just the last paragraph...everything else she said has been said here several times by others...but I never thought I'd see her pleading to Obama. Someone's getting fired for that line.

re: #46 Ericus58

Sorry for what?

re: #41 lawhawk

As you know, the distrust of Republicans goes back before Nixon.

OTOH, Israel never had a friend like Nixon. Not before and not after. He didn't do it for the Jews. He did it to thwart communism, but without Nixon, I'm not sure Israel would exist today.

re: #50 Obdicut

Sorry for what?

That I can't agree with you in your opinion on Al Jazeera

re: #43 Oh no...Sand People!

I don't bother with Condell much anymore. I used to really like him but he lost me a while ago. I watched the first 30 seconds and turned it off because he's not using factually correct statements as the basis for his rant. A rant based on lies isn't worth taking seriously.

re: #52 Ericus58

That I can't agree with you in your opinion on Al Jazeera

You didn't disagree with my opinion on Al Jazeera, though. You talked about a way that they're crappy-- which is true. It didn't have anything to do with what I said about them.

re: #37 ralphieboy

Gaza is dysfunctional. People are suffering there, especially the children who have to grow up in it. We need to motivate the main players on both sides to put an end to the suffering.

Hamas is willing to sacrifice their own people to advance their hatred of Israel. I believe just yesterday I read here on LGF that Hamas had just shut down welfare sites in Gaza. I doubt anyone or anything is going to convince Hamas to stop the rockets and the aggression. They don't care a fig about the children having to grow up in it. They will keep it up until the populace turns on them. That might be awhile. Meanwhile they are playing a game of propaganda with a great deal of help from outside. This whole flotilla thing has me wondering. It is such a contrived attention grabbing event, could something be cooking in some other part of the Islamic world? Is it a red herring to keep the world from paying too much attention elsewhere? Or is it just my paranoia surfacing?

re: #39 marjoriemoon

Indeed. My other question is what was the condition of Gaza prior to 2007? You would think these people just landed on the scene 3 years ago. That life in Gaza was all flowers and unicorns .

Prior to the blockade, Israel didn't block the sea and 100s of weapons poured in. The Jews left Gaza and things got WORSE not better. So go cry me a river.

I remember the pictures of the beautiful greenhouses that the Israelis had built in Gaza, which had been a source of employment and abundance for the Palis living there. Then within hours of Gaza being officially given up by Israel, Hamas goons were in there shattering the windows, ripping down the metal irrigation piping, and carting it off to turn into rockets.

That really symbolizes what has Gaza has become, turned from a prosperous region into yet another military camp devoted to seeing the Jews driven into the sea. If it's a concentration camp, it's of their own making, not anything the Israelis did.

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I don't bother with Condell much anymore. I used to really like him but he lost me a while ago. I watched the first 30 seconds and turned it off because he's not using factually correct statements as the basis for his rant. A rant based on lies isn't worth taking seriously.

How is he lying?

re: #51 marjoriemoon

I think the credit might more properly go to Kissinger, who was running foreign policy at the time of the Yom Kippur War because Nixon was thoroughly embroiled in the Watergate mess (the Saturday night massacre - the demand for resignations of Cox, Richardson and Ruckelshaus occurred Oct 20, 1973 - right in the middle of the Yom Kippur War (Oct 6-26). Both Nixon and Kissinger were anti-Communist and saw defending Israel as drawing the line against growing Soviet influence in the Middle East.

OT -

Good news on the national front... unemployment is down a 1/10 percent from 9.8 to 9.7... the recovery is on track.

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Good news on the national front... unemployment is down a 1/10 percent from 9.8 to 9.7... the recovery is on track.

I'm Stimulated

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Good news on the national front... unemployment is down a 1/10 percent from 9.8 to 9.7... the recovery is on track.

the fundamentals of the economy remain strong

re: #58 lawhawk

I think the credit might more properly go to Kissinger, who was running foreign policy at the time of the Yom Kippur War because Nixon was thoroughly embroiled in the Watergate mess (the Saturday night massacre - the demand for resignations of Cox, Richardson and Ruckelshaus occurred Oct 20, 1973 - right in the middle of the Yom Kippur War (Oct 6-26). Both Nixon and Kissinger were anti-Communist and saw defending Israel as drawing the line against growing Soviet influence in the Middle East.

Kissinger was more than shrewd.

During the Nixon administration he made sure the Egyptians were outfitted with US arms and weapons- armaments the Israelis were familiar with. There would be no unknown MIGS, or anti aircraft systems with which they were unfamiliar.

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

It's not "a few yards" away from ground zero. I think the actual distance is something like a half mile or so. It's a large community center with recreation facilities, swimming pools, shops etc. I think there's a mosque in the building but in this country we have religious freedom. Certain religious don't receive special restrictions on where they can pray. That's one thing Pat certainly doesn't understand; American style freedom.

re: #51 marjoriemoon

As you know, the distrust of Republicans goes back before Nixon.

OTOH, Israel never had a friend like Nixon. Not before and not after. He didn't do it for the Jews. He did it to thwart communism, but without Nixon, I'm not sure Israel would exist today.

When Arab missile forces decimated the IDF/AF in the first few days of the Yom Kippur war, Nixon ordered state of the art countermeasures flown to Israel at once. Losses declined but replacement aircraft were badly needed. They were sent from US stocks immediately. Some of them went into combat within an hour of their arrival, still bearing US camouflage but with Israeli insignia. This evolved quickly into a huge re-supply effort known as Operation Nickel Grass.

if gaza is a concentration camp, hamas is playing the role of the nazi captors.

re: #61 cliffster

the fundamentals of the economy remain strong

Reminds of Nidermier in the Animal House parade scene- "Remain calm, everything is under control...'

re: #62 researchok

Kissinger was more than shrewd.

During the Nixon administration he made sure the Egyptians were outfitted with US arms and weapons- armaments the Israelis were familiar with. There would be no unknown MIGS, or anti aircraft systems with which they were unfamiliar.

No, he did not do that. During the Yom Kippur War, Egypt was still almost entirely equipped by the Soviet Union. The US did not begin supplying Egypt with arms until the signing of the Camp David Accords under Jimmy Carter.

re: #46 Ericus58

Did you see the latest dust-up within the news group involving the 6 female staffers quiting due to having dress codes imposed?

They are still a tool organization. Sorry.

i did ... and two of the 4 women pictured in the story i saw were legitimately "hot."

re: #63 Killgore Trout

It's not "a few yards" away from ground zero. I think the actual distance is something like a half mile or so. It's a large community center with recreation facilities, swimming pools, shops etc. I think there's a mosque in the building but in this country we have religious freedom. Certain religious don't receive special restrictions on where they can pray. That's one thing Pat certainly doesn't understand; American style freedom.

It's two whole blocks away, they have been holding prayer services in the building, it's not being turned into a full fledge mosque, it will be a community center, with a prayer room (as it has now)... it's basically operational now...

re: #66 researchok

Reminds of Nidermier in the Animal House parade scene- "Remain calm, everything is under control...'

Wrong character. That was Kevin Bacon's role, not the actor playing Niedermeyer.

re: #54 Obdicut

You didn't disagree with my opinion on Al Jazeera, though. You talked about a way that they're crappy-- which is true. It didn't have anything to do with what I said about them.

The reason Al Jazeera may be more dangerous than Arab state media is that it is packaged in a slick Western-style way that may be more likely to fool a lot of unsophisticated viewers into swallowing their propoganda.

re: #54 Obdicut

You didn't disagree with my opinion on Al Jazeera, though. You talked about a way that they're crappy-- which is true. It didn't have anything to do with what I said about them.

What do you mean I didn't disagree with your opinion? Pretty sure I did.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

In a row which has split the channel, the five complained about harassment from a senior editor, whom they accused of making "offensive remarks" about their appearance.

After the channel refused to back them, the five women, some of the best-known faces in the Middle East thanks to the channel's popularity, quit. Three others have registered protests while staying with the station.

An internal inquiry has since cleared the official, the deputy editor-in-chief Ayman Jaballah, and asserted that the channel had the right to dictate how its presenters appeared.

The women concerned in the latest clash are Jumana Nammour, Lina Zahr al Deen Jullinar Mousa , Luna al-Shibl and Nawfar Afli, the first three from Lebanon, the other two from Syria and Tunisia resectively.

All are relatively liberal societies, and the five appeared with their hair uncovered, in contrast to some of Al-Jazeera's other women presenters, as well as heavily made up.

According to sources within the channel, there had been an escalating conflict between the two sides, with Mr Jaballah in particular making repeated comments about the women's "clothes and decency".

"The issue is likely to refocus attention on the difficulties Al-Jazeera faces in trying to reconcile its mission to be the BBC of the Middle East with the conservativism of some of the societies in which it broadcasts.

Al-Jazeera has become by far the most popular satellite television station in the Middle East since its launch in 1996, breaking a stranglehold largely dominated by state-backed national channels. It was founded by the Emir of Qatar, whose investment fund bought Harrods earlier this month, and is based in the country's capital, Doha.

Its name, meaning The Island, is a reference to the island of Qatar, which lies off Saudi Arabia in the Gulf.

It claims to present its news impartially but from an Arab perspective allegedly missing or underplayed in the West, but has been accused, particularly in America, of allowing itself to be used as a mouth-piece for terrorist groups.

The station failed to investigate the women's complaints until after they handed in their resignations at the beginning of last week. An immediate inquiry backed Mr Jaballah.

"The on-screen style and general appearance of broadcasters and announcers are the legal right of the network to determine and develop," it ruled, adding that it had to take into account "the spirit and principles of the channel and the image it wishes to present".

It did, however, call for the establishment of a code of conduct to cover appearance of presenters. It also said that in future such comments should be made in writing.

Arab bloggers have taken up the story, claiming that Mr Jaballah had Islamist sympathies and that management was "attempting to impose one political and ideological view" on the newsroom.

Al-Jazeera did not respond to a request for comment, while the five women have also so far refused to go public on their complaints."

re: #63 Killgore Trout

The actual distance between 43 Park Place and Ground Zero is far less than a half mile. In fact, I'd say it's something on the order of 500 feet in straight line distance, or a little more if you want to walk between Ground Zero by 7WTC and 43 Park Place. It's 2 short blocks. Driving directions put it at .3 miles.

re: #61 cliffster

the fundamentals of the economy remain strong

Yea sure.

re: #63 Killgore Trout

It's not "a few yards" away from ground zero. I think the actual distance is something like a half mile or so. It's a large community center with recreation facilities, swimming pools, shops etc. I think there's a mosque in the building but in this country we have religious freedom. Certain religious don't receive special restrictions on where they can pray. That's one thing Pat certainly doesn't understand; American style freedom.

It still bothers me in the same way it bothers him. The triumphalist name of it, the sheer size of it, its probable Saudi funding, and the Muslim habit of building mosques next to sites sacred to other people all make me hostile to this mosque. I think it should be canceled.

As Dr. Paul's son is such a Tea Party darling, it will be VERY interesting to see if any of this anti-Israel sentiment filters down...or since we are talking about tea, I guess I should say defuses...into the movement.

re: #73 lawhawk

The actual distance between 43 Park Place and Ground Zero is far less than a half mile. In fact, I'd say it's something on the order of 500 feet in straight line distance, or a little more if you want to walk between Ground Zero by 7WTC and 43 Park Place. It's 2 short blocks. Driving directions put it at .3 miles.

Ah, thanks. Right next to an Amish Market. Where do they park their horse drawn buggies?

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

It still bothers me in the same way it bothers him. The triumphalist name of it, the sheer size of it, its probable Saudi funding, and the Muslim habit of building mosques next to sites sacred to other people all make me hostile to this mosque. I think it should be canceled.

maybe so, but do you live there? If not, then it doesn't matter what you think ;)

re: #56 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I remember the pictures of the beautiful greenhouses that the Israelis had built in Gaza, which had been a source of employment and abundance for the Palis living there. Then within hours of Gaza being officially given up by Israel, Hamas goons were in there shattering the windows, ripping down the metal irrigation piping, and carting it off to turn into rockets.

That really symbolizes what has Gaza has become, turned from a prosperous region into yet another military camp devoted to seeing the Jews driven into the sea. If it's a concentration camp, it's of their own making, not anything the Israelis did.

They're like unruly children. Well, dangerous unruly children who are sent to bed without supper and then try to kill their parents for punishing them.

The Israelis give food, clothing, fuel, medicine, yet they complain. There's a video near the bottom of this thread "Israel's Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza" who said, "They only give yellow cheese to the Gazans. They won't give white cheese. Why not white cheese?"

Israel feeds them and they complain about the cheese? Israel gives them fuel, they blow up the depots. It's hard to have sympathy.

When the Soviets enslaved dissenters in the Gulag, they kept them alone in Siberian prisons. No cheese, no beaches, no pools, no cars, no markets, no nothing.

This is a fucking concentration camp.

re: #56 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Btw, you pop in now and then, I noticed. You should come back more often!

If the GOP and their supporters are granting passes to every loon that stands for one or another thing they like, just what would you expect from a cretin that would cheapen the phrase "concentration camp"? So Israel has ovens? Fuck Hamas and fuck clowns like Ron Paul. Now I truly KNOW what he is. Texas must be so proud.

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Good news on the national front... unemployment is down a 1/10 percent from 9.8 to 9.7... the recovery is on track.

It's going to be a long, slow recovery...We need 400k jobs created per month for another couple of years to make up for the losses that started in 2008 (though the guy on CNN said the job losses started in Jan 2009 as that's what he had on his graph, then corrected himself and said, "Actually, they started a year earlier..." [but let's move on and focus on the jobs lost since 2009 anyway]...

And those who don't like Obama won't be happy until he's out of office in 2017.

I'm a lot more pissed at us for leaving Ground Zero empty than with them for building a community center nearby.

re: #63 Killgore Trout

It's not "a few yards" away from ground zero. I think the actual distance is something like a half mile or so. It's a large community center with recreation facilities, swimming pools, shops etc. I think there's a mosque in the building but in this country we have religious freedom. Certain religious don't receive special restrictions on where they can pray. That's one thing Pat certainly doesn't understand; American style freedom.

Do you really want to completely discount the symbolism which Islam itself ascribes to the mosque and the sensibilities of the victims of the infamous Jihadist terror attack?

re: #78 cliffster

maybe so, but do you live there? If not, then it doesn't matter what you think ;)

Manhattan is so prominent that I think a project like this is the entire country's business. This mosque is going to be taken by Islamists as a symbol of victory, and that cannot be allowed.

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

It still bothers me in the same way it bothers him. The triumphalist name of it, the sheer size of it, its probable Saudi funding, and the Muslim habit of building mosques next to sites sacred to other people all make me hostile to this mosque. I think it should be canceled.

"sacred"? The WTC is now a holy site? We have religious freedom. There are Amish, Jewish centers all over New York. As soon as you start making rules about who can build where you start creating a situation like Jerusalem where people start squabbling over nonsense and who can claim what tiny patch of dirt. It's stupid and it's anti-American.

re: #72 Ericus58

I said that they put out better news than direct government propaganda from the Muslim governments?

Are you disagreeing with that?

re: #66 researchok

Reminds of Nidermier in the Animal House parade scene- "Remain calm, everything is under control...'

That was Kevin "Thank you sir, can I have another" Bacon's character.

Neidermeyer had the rifle and was picked up by the paper-mache hand-of-doom to be sent off to Vietnam...

re: #65 _RememberTonyC

if gaza is a concentration camp, hamas is playing the role of the nazi captors.

I appreciate the analogy, but really, there is no analogy.

(And I know you know that. I'm just sayin...)

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

So what should happen? What mechanism should disallow it?

re: #83 JasonA

Not empty, but nowhere near done.

re: #82 darthstar

It's going to be a long, slow recovery...We need 400k jobs created per month for another couple of years to make up for the losses that started in 2008 (though the guy on CNN said the job losses started in Jan 2009 as that's what he had on his graph, then corrected himself and said, "Actually, they started a year earlier..." [but let's move on and focus on the jobs lost since 2009 anyway]...

And those who don't like Obama won't be happy until he's out of office in 2017.

According to Bloomberg... shouldn't be any problem... we're right on track...

"Private payrolls rose by 41,000, Labor Department figures showed today, trailing the 180,000 gain forecast by economists. Including government workers, employment rose by 431,000, boosted by a jump in hiring of temporary census workers. The jobless rate fell to 9.7 percent from 9.9 percent."

431,000-41,000 = 390,000 (close enough for government work - LOL)

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wrong character. That was Kevin Bacon's role, not the actor playing Niedermeyer.

I musta been pretty buzzed...

re: #89 marjoriemoon

I appreciate the analogy, but really, there is no analogy.

(And I know you know that. I'm just sayin...)

you are correct ... on all counts ...

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

431,000-41,000 = 390,000 (close enough for government work - LOL)

nice one

re: #64 Shiplord Kirel

At one point during Nickel Grass, a US carrier (the Oriskany iirc) received orders to be ready to catapult its F-8 and A-4 aircraft off and fly them directly to Lod to be turned over to the Israelis. The A-4 was familiar to the Israelis but they had never before operated the F-8. It was felt that IDF pilots could adapt to it in a few days if necessary. This turned out to be unnecessary however and replacement aircraft were flown from Europe and the US. The IDF never did receive F-8s.

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

This mosque is going to be taken by Islamists as a symbol of victory, and that cannot be allowed.

What about their religious freedom? That pesky Constitution is going to get in the way. Shall be bulldoze every mosque within a mile of the WTC site? What should be the nearest Muslim business? A mile? Two Miles? Doesn't Fox News have Studios near there? They're Saudi owned.

re: #91 lawhawk

Point taken, but the now-tallest building in the world has been started and finished since 9-11, and it isn't in NY.

Found this over at Elder of Ziyon, from last year:

"Free Gaza Movement" organizers: "We are against humanitarian aid to Gaza!"

We have the funds for one cargo ship, and one passenger vessel. However, we need at least one more passenger vessel plus the operating expenses before we can go. In financial terms, we need about €300,000, or someone to donate a passenger vessel and €100,000 in operating expenses (fuel, port fees, crew wages, etc.)

The efforts of the Free Gaza Movement are vitally important; we need to end the blockade, not just deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza. While many potential funders recognize the significance of our work, for various reasons they have not come through with funding. Most prefer their financial contributions go toward to humanitarian aid for Palestine. But Palestine is not a charity case! There are hundreds of millions being pumped into Palestine by aid agencies that are unable or unwilling to address the political issues, or by donor countries that shirk their political, legal, and moral obligations, by throwing money at Palestine.

re: #95 cliffster

nice one

Thanks... it was a set up... someone bit, I responded.

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Manhattan is so prominent that I think a project like this is the entire country's business. This mosque is going to be taken by Islamists as a symbol of victory, and that cannot be allowed.

What do you propose? Blowing it up? They're not calling it the Mohammad Atta Memorial Mosque. You need to separate greater Islam from the extremists...otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy worrying about what some muslims think. You can't control what they think.

re: #61 cliffster

the fundamentals of the economy remain strong

There will be growth in the Spring.

Ah, and this makes sense given the long standing historic Turkish traditions of nonviolence and passivity.

Turkish PM tells Israel "thou shalt not kill"

"I am speaking to them in their own language. The sixth commandment says 'thou shalt not kill'. Did you not understand?" Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said in his harshest words yet since Israeli commandos raided the Mavi Marmara on Monday.

"I'll say again. I say in English 'you shall not kill'. Did you still not understand?. So I'll say to you in your own language. I say in Hebrew 'Lo Tirtzakh'," he said in a televised speech to supporters of his Islamist-leaning AK Party.

Armenia is calling, something about an actual genocide.

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

It still bothers me in the same way it bothers him. The triumphalist name of it, the sheer size of it, its probable Saudi funding, and the Muslim habit of building mosques next to sites sacred to other people all make me hostile to this mosque. I think it should be canceled.

Muslim habit? See, that says it all right there, you wouldn't give two shits what a Jewish, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, or Hindu land owner wanted to do with that property. But once some muslims decides to exercise their precious, conservative based free market rights to develop the property they own, you have a problem with it based on nothing more than who they are. That's lame.

re: #86 Killgore Trout

"sacred"? The WTC is now a holy site? We have religious freedom. There are Amish, Jewish centers all over New York. As soon as you start making rules about who can build where you start creating a situation like Jerusalem where people start squabbling over nonsense and who can claim what tiny patch of dirt. It's stupid and it's anti-American.

You think the age-old arguments over Jerusalem are mere squabbles and nonsense? You think Jerusalem is a tiny patch of dirt?
WTF. Would you care to restate your point?

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Manhattan is so prominent that I think a project like this is the entire country's business.

No, Cliff's right. It doesn't matter what you think. More importantly, it doesn't matter what the Muslims think.

re: #87 Obdicut

I said that they put out better news than direct government propaganda from the Muslim governments?

Are you disagreeing with that?

"Better" is a relative term in this regard.
Are they "better" than the official mouthpieces of the Arab governments? Yes.
Are they "better" than the official mouthpieces of terrorist organizations in the region? Yes.

Are they "better" than a majority of western news organizations in regards to the issue's in the Middle East, especially concerning Israel and America? NO.

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah, and this makes sense given the long standing historic Turkish traditions of nonviolence and passivity.

Turkish PM tells Israel "thou shalt not kill"

Armenia is calling, something about an actual genocide.

"Lo Tirtzach" does not translate as "Thou shalt not kill"

re: #90 Obdicut

So what should happen? What mechanism should disallow it?

i will try to find a piece on this topic from an American Muslim that I posted a week or two back. This man had been involved in building a number of mosques in America, but was against this one. He argued against it on the basis of sensitivity issues that the Muslim community should be cognizant of. It was a very good piece and if I can find it, I will attach it to this post. His point was that the Muslims should be the ones showing sensitivity towards those who are offended by the project. Legally, there is no recourse.

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

According to Bloomberg... shouldn't be any problem... we're right on track...

"Private payrolls rose by 41,000, Labor Department figures showed today, trailing the 180,000 gain forecast by economists. Including government workers, employment rose by 431,000, boosted by a jump in hiring of temporary census workers. The jobless rate fell to 9.7 percent from 9.9 percent."

431,000-41,000 = 390,000 (close enough for government work - LOL)

Yeah, the private numbers were pretty shitty...but movement in the right direction is still movement. And you're working again, right? Two months now? Is that a bad thing?

re: #90 Obdicut

So what should happen? What mechanism should disallow it?

The only fair thing would be to pass the appropriate legislation to disallow ALL religious land uses from ground zero and environs.

re: #97 Killgore Trout

What about their religious freedom? That pesky Constitution is going to get in the way. Shall be bulldoze every mosque within a mile of the WTC site? What should be the nearest Muslim business? A mile? Two Miles? Doesn't Fox News have Studios near there? They're Saudi owned.

Their religious freedom is a secondary concern to me. A Saudi funded mosque called the "Cordoba House" is to me first and foremost a hostile political symbol and only secondarily a house of worship. I'd agree to it with the name changed, all Saudi funding banned, and an agreement by its organizers that they will not preach jihad nor the replacement of the Constitution by sharia. Under those terms, I would have no objections.

re: #108 Alouette

"Lo Tirtzach" does not translate as "Thou shalt not kill"

He is a fascist Islamist politician, I doubt facts mean much to him

re: #110 darthstar

Yeah, the private numbers were pretty shitty...but movement in the right direction is still movement. And you're working again, right? Two months now? Is that a bad thing?

Never said it was... now if I could only get a job that is in my career, computer programmer, 30 years experience, sent out over 500 a year for last 3 years, already sent 128 out this year, no work... hell, most of the recent high school grads in my area can't find work (the ones who want it)... I'm talking a job that a young person should have, that's a bad thing.

You're blind...

re: #111 Spare O'Lake

The only fair thing would be to pass the appropriate legislation to disallow ALL religious land uses from ground zero and environs.

But there already churches in the relevant area, so that's a non-starter.

re: #109 _RememberTonyC

i will try to find a piece on this topic from an American Muslim that I posted a week or two back. This man had been involved in building a number of mosques in America, but was against this one. He argued against it on the basis of sensitivity issues that the Muslim community should be cognizant of. It was a very good piece and if I can find it, I will attach it to this post. His point was that the Muslims should be the ones showing sensitivity towards those who are offended by the project. Legally, there is no recourse.

here it is ... an excellent read from a very patriotic and sensitive American Muslim.

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Never said it was... now if I could only get a job that is in my career, computer programmer, 30 years experience, sent out over 500 a year for last 3 years, already sent 128 out this year, no work... hell, most of the recent high school grads in my area can't find work (the ones who want it)... I'm talking a job that a young person should have, that's a bad thing.

You're blind...

Sent out = resumes (forgot that word)

re: #109 _RememberTonyC

i will try to find a piece on this topic from an American Muslim that I posted a week or two back. This man had been involved in building a number of mosques in America, but was against this one. He argued against it on the basis of sensitivity issues that the Muslim community should be cognizant of. It was a very good piece and if I can find it, I will attach it to this post. His point was that the Muslims should be the ones showing sensitivity towards those who are offended by the project. Legally, there is no recourse.

I posted this very recently and the man's article is referenced in this:

[Link: www.irshadmanji.com...]

"“To put it bluntly, Ground Zero is the one place in America where Muslims should think less about teaching Islam and ‘our good side’ and more about being American and fulfilling our responsibilities to confront the ideology of our enemies… Are we Americans who happen to be Muslim or Muslims blindly demanding to be American?

American Muslims will be better served if this project is built further away from Ground Zero and focuses on leading a reform effort. If we help build anything at the WTC site itself, it should be timeless memorials to all those who lost their lives on 9/11 — memorials to blind to faith, race, creed, or national origin…

We need to focus our efforts more transparently on teaching Muslim youth that the American concepts of liberty and freedom are preferable to sharia and the Islamic state. American Muslims represent the best opportunity to fight Islamist radicalization not because we understand Islam but because we have experienced and understood what American liberty provides to the Muslim experience.“"

The "concentration camp" comparison is retarded for one reason:

You can leave Gaza. You cannot leave a concentration camp.

That right there is all that needs to be pointed out, repeatedly. Gaza is not a prison. It is a shitty place to live, but it isn't a prison.

re: #79 marjoriemoon

They're like unruly children. Well, dangerous unruly children who are sent to bed without supper and then try to kill their parents for punishing them.

The Israelis give food, clothing, fuel, medicine, yet they complain. There's a video near the bottom of this thread "Israel's Massive Aid Deliveries to Gaza" who said, "They only give yellow cheese to the Gazans. They won't give white cheese. Why not white cheese?"

Israel feeds them and they complain about the cheese? Israel gives them fuel, they blow up the depots. It's hard to have sympathy.

When the Soviets enslaved dissenters in the Gulag, they kept them alone in Siberian prisons. No cheese, no beaches, no pools, no cars, no markets, no nothing.

This is a fucking concentration camp.

Ayep. All this talk about "concentration camps" and how the people in Gaza are "starving" is absolute horseshit, but because it's anti-Israeli, it's taken as gospel. You could go around the streets of Gaza taking pictures of fat, lazy Palestinians in their natural environment, and you'd have the anti-Israeli crowd claiming you faked the pictures to make Israel look good.

re: #98 JasonA

Tallest building in the world hasn't been in NYC since the completion of the Sears Tower (now Willis Tower, in Chicago). When completed, the Freedom Tower (1WTC) will be the tallest building in North America/USA.

re: #79 marjoriemoon

This is a fucking concentration camp.

The Jews "lived" on starvation rations. A daily ration was: a piece of black bread, about as thick as your thumb; some margarine about the size of three sticks of chewing gum; and a small cup of something that was supposed to be soup. Every once in a while there was something floating around in it. That was it for twenty four hours.

Starving Gazans, here and here.

Ron Paul is an evil, evil man.

re: #107 Ericus58

Are they "better" than a majority of western news organizations in regards to the issue's in the Middle East, especially concerning Israel and America? NO.

Good thing I didn't claim they were, then.

As I said, you're not actually disagreeing with what I said.

Don Imus asks whether keeping weapons out of the hands of Hamas a legitimate concern.

Ron Paul says, "Well, uh, they are an elected government, I mean . . . "

You know, because Ron Paul always advocates deference to elected governments. Right?

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Manhattan is so prominent that I think a project like this is the entire country's business. This mosque is going to be taken by Islamists as a symbol of victory, and that cannot be allowed.

If we disallow it, we cease to be what makes America great. "Land of the free" would be little more than a slogan if we prevent people from building Mosques because, well, we don't take kindly to their kind 'round here.

re: #24 lawhawkThank you lawhawk for the article. Shabat Shalom.

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

So you do want to set aside the first amendment for this?

Why is this more important than the constitution?

re: #124 Lawrence Schmerel

Don Imus asks whether keeping weapons out of the hands of Hamas a legitimate concern.

Ron Paul says, "Well, uh, they are an elected government, I mean . . . "

You know, because Ron Paul always advocates deference to elected governments. Right?

The rockets and AK-47s should be given over to local control.

re: #80 marjoriemoon

Btw, you pop in now and then, I noticed. You should come back more often!

Yeah, I'm takin' a bit of time off from the usual political boards I've been frequenting the last few years. Figured I'd pop in and see what's what amongst the scaled masses.

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes, that would be consistent with Ron Paul's politics, I think.

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

But there already churches in the relevant area, so that's a non-starter.

Existing uses could be grandfathered, provided there was no expansion beyond the existing use. Any new houses of worship could be excluded.

re: #121 lawhawk

I was only pointing out that the Burg Khalifa was started and (mostly) finished, all after 911. Nothing more. And I don't insist that NY has the tallest, either. I just ant something pleasant to look at. :)

re: #122 marjoriemoon

Concentration camps? The Turks know a thing or two about them too.

re: #131 Spare O'Lake

Existing uses could be grandfathered, provided there was no expansion beyond the existing use. Any new houses of worship could be excluded.

How, under the First Amendment?

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Manhattan is so prominent that I think a project like this is the entire country's business. This mosque is going to be taken by Islamists as a symbol of victory, and that cannot be allowed.

This has to stop, you don't know what these people think and probably couldn't care less. Because if you did actually care about the kinds of things motivate, play on their rage, and drive them to bloodlust, then you never would have advocated torture in the first place.

"Cannot be allowed?" What the hell is that.

re: #118 Ericus58

I posted this very recently and the man's article is referenced in this:

[Link: www.irshadmanji.com...]

"“To put it bluntly, Ground Zero is the one place in America where Muslims should think less about teaching Islam and ‘our good side’ and more about being American and fulfilling our responsibilities to confront the ideology of our enemies… Are we Americans who happen to be Muslim or Muslims blindly demanding to be American?

American Muslims will be better served if this project is built further away from Ground Zero and focuses on leading a reform effort. If we help build anything at the WTC site itself, it should be timeless memorials to all those who lost their lives on 9/11 — memorials to blind to faith, race, creed, or national origin…

We need to focus our efforts more transparently on teaching Muslim youth that the American concepts of liberty and freedom are preferable to sharia and the Islamic state. American Muslims represent the best opportunity to fight Islamist radicalization not because we understand Islam but because we have experienced and understood what American liberty provides to the Muslim experience.“"

yes ... it is same article ... and it is superb

re: #131 Spare O'Lake

Existing uses could be grandfathered, provided there was no expansion beyond the existing use. Any new houses of worship could be excluded.

You can't do this without shitting on the constitution. Period.

re: #123 Obdicut

Good thing I didn't claim they were, then.

As I said, you're not actually disagreeing with what I said.

No, I'm truly disagreeing with you Obi.
You post was in the theme of Al J not being "so bad".
Better than "bad" doesn't equal "good".

re: #105 Spare O'Lake

Would you care to restate your point?

No. It's a backwards concept to start declaring sites sacred ground and setting restrictions on which religions can visit which site. It was common practice in ancient times but American style freedom has done away with property rights and personal liberty based on religion. Trying to bring those restriction to America would be terribly destructive.

WTF?

re: #119 Fozzie Bear

The "concentration camp" comparison is retarded for one reason:

You can leave Gaza. You cannot leave a concentration camp.

That right there is all that needs to be pointed out, repeatedly. Gaza is not a prison. It is a shitty place to live, but it isn't a prison.

Yes, and also a Concentration Camp is historically a place where people were gathered in contemplation of mass deportation or genocide.
Truly a vile example of Jew-baiting.

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

"Cannot be allowed?" What the hell is that.

Incorrect is what it is. It can and has been allowed. I'm of the opinion that this will make an excellent venue for protests.

re: #138 Ericus58

No, I'm truly disagreeing with you Obi.
You post was in the theme of Al J not being "so bad".
Better than "bad" doesn't equal "good".

Better than any other media organization in the region = good. Attack the least of evils at your peril. You won't like what replaces it.

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

Their religious freedom is a secondary concern to me.

I know. That's the problem.

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Sent out = resumes (forgot that word)

I assumed that's what you meant.

CNN - rocket launch in less than 1 minute

re: #138 Ericus58

No, I'm truly disagreeing with you Obi.
You post was in the theme of Al J not being "so bad".
Better than "bad" doesn't equal "good".

But I didn't say that they were good, so, again, you're not disagreeing with me.

They are often the best outlet available in many Muslim countries, the ones who are willing to criticize the governments of those countries.

I didn't say they were good, so why are you implying I did? You seem determined to say we disagree, and I really can't figure out why.

I bet the Neo-Nazis at Stormfront are breathing hard over this. I'm not saying Ron Paul is anti-semite nor is all criticism of Israel anti-semitism but Stormfront loves this stuff.

re: #110 darthstar

Actually, it was a step back because the private sector jobs created dropped from April - from 218,000 to about 43,000. That's a step back - not a positive development.

Overall job growth was wholly dependent on the census jobs, not private sector job creation. That's a bad indicator and one that bodes poorly for the economic recovery.

Moreover, the figures came in well below economists' expectations; job growth was much weaker than anticipated.

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah, and this makes sense given the long standing historic Turkish traditions of nonviolence and passivity.

Turkish PM tells Israel "thou shalt not kill"

Armenia is calling, something about an actual genocide.

Bastards. It's THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. When is defense murder??

Leave it to the Turks to the tell the Jews about morality.

re: #145 darthstar

I assumed that's what you meant.

Ok... and on that note... I have to go to work... eat more 4050.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

[Video]

*blinks*

You're fuckin' with me, right? That was from a movie where she played some jew-hating old lady, right?

...

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

Unbelievable.

Take a dirt nap, Helen.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

[Video]

just wow ... Ron Paul's evil twin sister ...

re: #111 Spare O'Lake

The only fair thing would be to pass the appropriate legislation to disallow ALL religious land uses from ground zero and environs.

ROFL. Yeah OK, you're just a little bit late for that.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

Carrying on the proud Hearst tradition of antisemitism, apparently.

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Ok... and on that note... I have to go to work... eat more 4050.

mmm...Canteloupe.

Falcon 9 private rocket's first launch is live now.

re: #149 lawhawk

Actually, it was a step back because the private sector jobs created dropped from April - from 218,000 to about 43,000. That's a step back - not a positive development.

Overall job growth was wholly dependent on the census jobs, not private sector job creation. That's a bad indicator and one that bodes poorly for the economic recovery.

Moreover, the figures came in well below economists' expectations; job growth was much weaker than anticipated.

re: #149 lawhawk

Dow's down below 10K again. Not that that means anything, since traders of stocks are morons.

re: #143 Fozzie Bear

Better than any other media organization in the region = good. Attack the least of evils at your peril. You won't like what replaces it.

Well, I'm sure not gonna buy their line without fact-checking what they say - just like I would with any source.

And just so we are clear, there already exists more "evil" outlets for propaganda in that region. Calling out Al J won't make a difference. You perhaps should be hoping that by making Al J accountable for their reports is going to make for more honest opinions and dialogue.

re: #153 Cato the Elder

Unbelievable.

Take a dirt nap, Helen.

go to Hell, Helen

re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I'm takin' a bit of time off from the usual political boards I've been frequenting the last few years. Figured I'd pop in and see what's what amongst the scaled masses.

I am graced by your presence :)

re: #158 avanti

Falcon 9 private rocket's first launch is live now.

It went off, now at 200 kilometers. Live streaming video
Stage separation coming up.

re: #133 lawhawk

Concentration camps? The Turks know a thing or two about them too.

Yeah, I don't know whether to laugh or swear when I hear countries like Turkey, Russia, or China condemning Israel and accusing them of items like "genocide" or running "concentration camps." I'd almost consider it ironic if it wasn't so blatantly hypocritical.

re: #148 BlackFedora

I bet the Neo-Nazis at Stormfront are breathing hard over this. I'm not saying Ron Paul is anti-semite nor is all criticism of Israel anti-semitism but Stormfront loves this stuff.

(It's ok. You can say it.)

re: #163 Shiplord Kirel

It went off, now at 200 kilometers. Live streaming video
Stage separation coming up.

Stage separation was pretty cool.

Dear G-d,

In the past year you have taken away my favorite actress (Farah Fawcett), my favorite musician (Michael Jackson) and my favorite salesperson (Billy Mays). Just wanted to let you know my favorite reporter is helen thomas, my favorite TV pundit is pat buchanan, and my favorite politician is ron paul.

re: #134 Obdicut

How, under the First Amendment?

As you know, I am a Canadian so I'm extrapolating.
Up here, we have municipal zoning by-laws which can place limits on the types of uses to which privately owned property may be put and the types of structures which may be built. Uses in place at the time of passing the by-law are called legally non-conforming uses and are grandfathered. Such land use regulation, if applied equally, does not run afoul of our constitution.
Is it legal in the US for a private property owner to build a religious institution anywhere and to any specifications that the owner wants?
Also, couldn't the State and/or the Federal Government pass legislation declaring a site to be free of any religious structures, particularly if the site has special national significance?

re: #163 Shiplord Kirel

It went off, now at 200 kilometers. Live streaming video
Stage separation coming up.

I also liked the engine cone turning orange as it heated up.

re: #165 marjoriemoon

(It's ok. You can say it.)

Yes. If you use concentration camp rhetoric to attack Israel's position on Gaza, you are engaging in antisemitism. Ron Paul is now openly being antisemitic.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

[Video]

Damn you sir, twice over. First for showing me that hag, then making me hear her open her gob to spout such trash. I shall file an official grievance presently.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

Helen Thomas. Leading voice of the media elites on the WH beat. And a complete raving lunatic.

re: #162 marjoriemoon

I am graced by your presence :)

Please, no applause, just throw money.

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

[Video]

OMG and to think I defended that Bitch.

re: #167 _RememberTonyC

Dear G-d,

In the past year you have taken away my favorite actress (Farah Fawcett), my favorite musician (Michael Jackson) and my favorite salesperson (Billy Mays). Just wanted to let you know my favorite reporter is helen thomas, my favorite TV pundit is pat buchanan, and my favorite politician is ron paul.

That prayer was originally written about President Obama. Changing the names doesn't make it right. Wishing death on an octogenarian? Really? A sitting politician? Call him an asshole, say you wouldn't 'tap' Helen, whatever...but don't become the people you criticize regularly.

re: #174 marjoriemoon

OMG and to think I defended that Bitch.

I really wanted to see you use the C-word...

re: #136 _RememberTonyC

yes ... it is same article ... and it is superb

Maybe the Muslims should be more sensitive, maybe not. Maybe people should be sensitive enough to not draw cartoons of Mohammed. Maybe I should be sensitive enough (To Catholics and atheists) to not have Hitchens in a Pope hat as my avatar. That's all open to debate but we can't start restricting people's property rights and religious freedom because it might hurt someone's feelings.

re: #169 darthstar

I also liked the engine cone turning orange as it heated up.

ORBIT! IT worked! It worked!

Look what showed up in the Pages:

In principle, the decision whether to rent or sell to or hire another person should belong solely to the owner of a business.

re: #167 _RememberTonyC

Dear G-d,

In the past year you have taken away my favorite actress (Farah Fawcett), my favorite musician (Michael Jackson) and my favorite salesperson (Billy Mays). Just wanted to let you know my favorite reporter is helen thomas, my favorite TV pundit is pat buchanan, and my favorite politician is ron paul.

LOL I think that may go up on my facebook.

re: #176 JasonA

I really wanted to see you use the C-word...

LOL I'm a lady. All I say is shit, fuck and bitch :p

re: #179 freetoken

Look what showed up in the Pages:

...You're shittin' me, right?

re: #168 Spare O'Lake

Also, couldn't the State and/or the Federal Government pass legislation declaring a site to be free of any religious structures, particularly if the site has special national significance?

Only if the government bought the land. If it's private land, then:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

And changing zoning laws to specifically interfere with the mosque is clearly and obviously an attempt to restrict one religion and not others. You can't just beat the constitution by being sufficiently sneaky, judges know those kind of tricks.

It is not worth it to give up freedom of religion to prevent this Islamic center from being built. Not at all.

Should we disallow the building of any Christian churches in the South, since the majority of Christian leaders endorsed and supported slavery?

re: #175 darthstar

That prayer was originally written about President Obama. Changing the names doesn't make it right. Wishing death on an octogenarian? Really? A sitting politician? Call him an asshole, say you wouldn't 'tap' Helen, whatever...but don't become the people you criticize regularly.

you have got to be kidding me ... like i really want these people to die? don't project your own motivations on me. maybe you should just put me on "gaze." and go buy yourself a sense of humor while you're at it.

re: #178 Shiplord Kirel

ORBIT! IT worked! It worked!

Our conservatives Liazard's should be thrilled that a private companies first launch of a complex rocket to replace the shuttle was a total success. Bravo, for capitalism and private enterprise.

re: #127 Obdicut

So you do want to set aside the first amendment for this?

Why is this more important than the constitution?

Actually, as I said, I'm willing to allow the project with alterations. Was my list of those unacceptable?

re: #168 Spare O'Lake

It likely wouldn't matter if they did change the zoning by-laws (whatever they're called there) in the area or at least for the place that some people are in a tizzy about now. Those types of changes take time and go through there own looong processes and this place would likely fall into the 'grandfathered' ones anyways.

Gotta run. Sorry about the Helen Thomas post.
/

re: #172 lawhawk

Helen Thomas. Leading voice of the media elites on the WH beat. And a complete raving lunatic.

Well, whoever was holding the mic seemed pretty shocked at what she was saying.

New Private Rocket Soars Into Space on First Flight

The brand new commercial Falcon 9 rocket soared into orbit from Florida on its maiden flight Friday, the first test for a new era of private vehicles that could one day send cargo – and possibly astronauts – into space.

The Falcon 9 rocket, built by private company Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX), blasted off at 2:45 p.m. EDT (1845 GMT) from its seaside launch pad at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.

An earlier launch attempt today at 1:30 p.m. EDT (1730 GMT) was aborted when a last minute glitch caused SpaceX to halt just after ignition of the rocket's engines. The issue was an "out-of-limit startup parameter," according to SpaceX launch commentator Robyn Ringuette.

Before that, the launch was delayed past an initial 11 a.m. EDT (1500 GMT) target time a blocked signal from the rocket's telemetry system, which enables the launch team to track the vehicle from afar.

After that issue was resolved, a report came from the U.S. Air Force that a boat had strayed into the safety range on the Atlantic Ocean over which the Falcon 9 rocket would fly during its trip to space. The launch had to wait until the boat was cleared before proceeding.

Finally, SpaceX recycled the launch countdown and succeeded launching on its second try, when all systems appeared to function as designed for a smooth first blastoff of the untried rocket.

"It's a huge milestone achievement for SpaceX as a company, because they've invested a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of engineering, and to get to an actual flight test is definitely an impressive achievement," said Brett Alexander, president of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation, a private industry group.

re: #139 Killgore Trout

No. It's a backwards concept to start declaring sites sacred ground and setting restrictions on which religions can visit which site. It was common practice in ancient times but American style freedom has done away with property rights and personal liberty based on religion. Trying to bring those restriction to America would be terribly destructive.

How about declaring Ground Zero and a suitable adjacent buffer area as a National Shrine, and to forbid construction of new religious structures on the site in order to promote the non-denominational character of the area. It would be an expropriation of private rights for the greater common interest...does that sound so un-American?

re: #179 freetoken

Look what showed up in the Pages:

In principle, the decision whether to rent or sell to or hire another person should belong solely to the owner of a business.

That's awesome, because in principle I should be the King of California, but cold hard reality has conspired against me yet again.

My favorite Ron Paul insanity moment came this year in House testimony with Bernanke when he accused the Fed of funding Watergate and Saddam Hussein's weapons purchases in the 80's.

Bernanke thinks (rightly) that he is crazy but had to answer the question anyway (its on Youtube).

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF?

[Video]

I've never before been tempted to call a woman *that* word. Wow.

re: #176 JasonA

I really wanted to see you use the C-word...

Btw, sometimes I forget these things, so please if you ever see me defend her again, please remind me... It's really hard to keep up with all the haters, ya know?

re: #175 darthstar

That prayer was originally written about President Obama. Changing the names doesn't make it right. Wishing death on an octogenarian? Really? A sitting politician? Call him an asshole, say you wouldn't 'tap' Helen, whatever...but don't become the people you criticize regularly.

I will happily wait until Helen Thomas dies of natural causes...and then open a bottle of Champagne to toast her descent into Hell.

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gotta run. Sorry about the Helen Thomas post.
/

I'll forgive you someday.

re: #182 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...You're shittin' me, right?

Um, no.

re: #195 marjoriemoon

Btw, sometimes I forget these things, so please if you ever see me defend her again, please remind me... It's really hard to keep up with all the haters, ya know?

I wish I could forget things like that...

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Maybe the Muslims should be more sensitive, maybe not. Maybe people should be sensitive enough to not draw cartoons of Mohammed. Maybe I should be sensitive enough (To Catholics and atheists) to not have Hitchens in a Pope hat as my avatar. That's all open to debate but we can't start restricting people's property rights and religious freedom because it might hurt someone's feelings.

i have not called for the mosque project to be stopped. but i did find it heartening to see a man who is clearly a devoted Muslim call for more sensitivity from his co-religionists. Historically we have seen a lot of vocal Muslims call for people to be sensitive to their religious sensitivities, but it is very rare to see Muslims asking their own to do the same. This man is a good American who I would be proud to have as a friend or neighbor.

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

Their religious freedom is a secondary concern to me.

Wow. Just, wow. So the service of numerous generations of my family's menfolk in defense of this country and her freedoms—including my own father's service in the Marine Corps in the South Pacific in WWII—was all for naught since you'd deprive me, a fellow American, of my religious freedom?

re: #184 _RememberTonyC

you have got to be kidding me ... like i really want these people to die? don't project your own motivations on me. maybe you should just put me on "gaze." and go buy yourself a sense of humor while you're at it.

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

Actually, as I said, I'm willing to allow the project with alterations. Was my list of those unacceptable?

By what legal force can the government demand those alterations, under the first amendment?

Given that this place is associated with an Imam who preaches that Jihad may never be violent, do you want him to stop preaching that?

Does anyone associated with this group preach that the US constitution should be thrown out and replaced by sharia?

If you want all Saudi funding banned, why do you want it for this place and not for Fox News and all the other US companies and institutions that receive funds from the Saudis?

re: #185 avanti

Our conservatives Liazard's should be thrilled that a private companies first launch of a complex rocket to replace the shuttle was a total success. Bravo, for capitalism and private enterprise.

Nifty cutaway illustration: Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon Spacecraft.

re: #5 wrenchwench

Next, the echo from Rand. Then, fireworks among the teapartiers.

I'm still waiting and hoping.

I don't know. The Tea Party is turning inward with a vengeance, I'm not sure where they stand on Israel exactly. Especially if it's their money we're talking about, and this isn't being presented as something to fight with liberals over.

re: #202 darthstar

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

I can't wait till they die. How they do it is up to them, and Fate.

re: #167 _RememberTonyC

Dear G-d,

In the past year you have taken away my favorite actress (Farah Fawcett), my favorite musician (Michael Jackson) and my favorite salesperson (Billy Mays). Just wanted to let you know my favorite reporter is helen thomas, my favorite TV pundit is pat buchanan, and my favorite politician is ron paul.

ROFLMAO!

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

Actually, as I said, I'm willing to allow the project with alterations. Was my list of those unacceptable?

O.o

"Willing to allow?"

And how do you plan on "disallowing" it? Even Bloomberg can't do that.

re: #174 marjoriemoon

OMG and to think I defended that Bitch.

I never have although I did give her props for quitting UPI when the Moonies bought it.

re: #196 Cato the Elder

I will happily wait until Helen Thomas dies of natural causes...and then open a bottle of Champagne to toast her descent into Hell.

Hell doesn't exist.

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

Their religious freedom is a secondary concern to me.

That's unusually inconsistent (wrt the Constitution) for you.

People are so quick to rush to shit on the constitution when they want revenge, and so quick to quote it when they are wronged.

You cannot constitutionally prevent the construction of a mosque on private land. Period. Ever.

re: #210 darthstar

Hell doesn't exist.

You are living proof that it does.

re: #200 _RememberTonyC

Historically we have seen a lot of vocal Muslims call for people to be sensitive to their religious sensitivities, but it is very rare to see Muslims asking their own to do the same.

How do you know that Tony? Would you be surprised to learn that I had that very conversation with a Muslim friend of mine on the phone just yesterday morning?

re: #38 Oh no...Sand People!

You can't reason with the insane.

Hamas is crazy like a fox...but their power comes from keeping the situation as jacked up as it is.

re: #202 darthstar

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

Just FYI - that "prayer" has been around since Fred Flintstone days.

Just sayin'...

re: #202 darthstar

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

I saw it more of a joke than anything else. Dark humor, maybe, but appropriate.

One might say it's not evil to wish death on people who are evil. I can't speak for the whole catalog of Helen's "works" but Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul have a history of truly evil remarks about fellow humans so if they dropped dead tomorrow, I may not shout it from the rafters, but it would please me.

re: #202 darthstar

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

oh, lighten up, you little weenie. It's Friday.

re: #203 Obdicut

If you want all Saudi funding banned, why do you want it for this place and not for Fox News and all the other US companies and institutions that receive funds from the Saudis?

Because he's giving in to the symbolism aspect of it.

re: #202 darthstar

Hey, you wrote it, not me. When that prayer originally came out with regard to Obama, Pelosi, whoever, it was seen as offensive...it's still offensive, and yes, it makes you sound like a death-wishing wing-nut. Not that I seriously believe you want to see Helen Thomas, Pat Buchanan, or Ron Paul killed.

But the blood-lust is strong right now, so I can understand why you'd think it was funny.

it's funny because ... it's funny. no further psychoanalysis is necessary here.

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

How about declaring Ground Zero and a suitable adjacent buffer area as a National Shrine, and to forbid construction of new religious structures on the site in order to promote the non-denominational character of the area. It would be an expropriation of private rights for the greater common interest...does that sound so un-American?

That I could not support. I'd rather have the mosque than do that. The area is a center of commerce and should remain such. Build memorial to the dead, but otherwise rebuild and get back to business. The fallen are to be remembered, but you cannot allow those memories to run the game.

re: #210 darthstar

Hell doesn't exist.

Ron Paul in chaps with Helen Thomas wearing a leather bustier and holding Ron's leash.

re: #209 MandyManners

I never have although I did give her props for quitting UPI when the Moonies bought it.

I guess I take the side of the elderly automatically and I never liked people criticizing her for her age, but I guess I really never knew her politics. I know it now!

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

How about declaring Ground Zero and a suitable adjacent buffer area as a National Shrine, and to forbid construction of new religious structures on the site in order to promote the non-denominational character of the area. It would be an expropriation of private rights for the greater common interest...does that sound so un-American?

Yes. What if the Amish Market wants to update its facilities? How about the Methodists Church Or the Jewish Community center? Should they also be restricted in the area? Unless it becomes Federal land I don't think you can legally restrict religious activity.

I just remembered that her parents were from Lebanon. I wonder if that influences her POS POV.

re: #190 Shiplord Kirel

"An earlier launch attempt today at 1:30 p.m. EDT (1730 GMT) was aborted when a last minute glitch caused SpaceX to halt just after ignition of the rocket's engines."

Not a rocket scientist, but my understanding is that once one of these things light off, you don't shut them down. Any idea on how they managed it without damage to the engine of needing to refuel it?

re: #225 MandyManners

I just remembered that her parents were from Lebanon. I wonder if that influences her POS POV.

Huh. Didn't know that.

re: #222 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ron Paul in chaps with Helen Thomas wearing a leather bustier and holding Ron's leash.

You're not a well man, you know that, don't you.

re: #223 marjoriemoon

I guess I take the side of the elderly automatically and I never liked people criticizing her for her age, but I guess I really never knew her politics. I know it now!

Even old folks can be assholes!

re: #214 CuriousLurker

How do you know that Tony? Would you be surprised to learn that I had that very conversation with a Muslim friend of mine on the phone just yesterday morning?

You'll bring down the whole "Islam is an evil religion" pile of bricks on your head if you're not careful.

Sadly, there are a lot of people out there who are more than happy to paint with a rather broad brush when it comes to this particular case.

re: #210 darthstar

Hell doesn't exist.

i tend to agree ... but how can we be sure?

re: #56 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I remember the pictures of the beautiful greenhouses that the Israelis had built in Gaza, which had been a source of employment and abundance for the Palis living there. Then within hours of Gaza being officially given up by Israel, Hamas goons were in there shattering the windows, ripping down the metal irrigation piping, and carting it off to turn into rockets.

That really symbolizes what has Gaza has become, turned from a prosperous region into yet another military camp devoted to seeing the Jews driven into the sea. If it's a concentration camp, it's of their own making, not anything the Israelis did.

The greenhouses posed a threat to Hamas. People who have a source of income, of personal pride, something to use to get their kids well-situated, are a lot harder to screw around with.

They greenhouses had to go.

re: #208 JasonA

O.o

"Willing to allow?"

And how do you plan on "disallowing" it? Even Bloomberg can't do that.

Find out where the cash money came from to buy the building. If it came from terror-funding sources, publicize the shit out of that.

Presto! No mosque.

re: #226 Bubblehead II

Solid boosters cannot be shut down once ignited. Liquid-fueled rockets are another matter. Just shut off the fuel pump, and the rocket shuts down.

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

How about declaring Ground Zero and a suitable adjacent buffer area as a National Shrine, and to forbid construction of new religious structures on the site in order to promote the non-denominational character of the area. It would be an expropriation of private rights for the greater common interest...does that sound so un-American?

I don't do "un-American," but it sounds kind of weaselly.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I think it's fantastic that the Christians made us a great big cross made out of structural beams from the WTC, and then wrapped it in the flag and planted it right smack in the middle of ground zero. That was awesome! My only regret is that Sinclair Lewis didn't live to see it.

re: #226 Bubblehead II

They're liquid fueled rockets. Those can be shut down (and apparently the glitch showed the failsafes worked - a good test of their safety systems). A solid rocket booster, once lit, stays lit until they flame out.

re: #228 marjoriemoon

You're not a well man, you know that, don't you.

I do. I really do.

I am fun at parties though.

re: #225 MandyManners

I just remembered that her parents were from Lebanon. I wonder if that influences her POS POV.

Oh for sure.

re: #214 CuriousLurker

How do you know that Tony? Would you be surprised to learn that I had that very conversation with a Muslim friend of mine on the phone just yesterday morning?

that's great news ... I said it's rare, not that it NEVER happens. you see very little publicity of tthe folks with that attitude, but I would LOVE to see more!

re: #231 _RememberTonyC

If there is a hell, I'll see you there. /nin

re: #76 bratwurst

As Dr. Paul's son is such a Tea Party darling, it will be VERY interesting to see if any of this anti-Israel sentiment filters down...or since we are talking about tea, I guess I should say defuses...into the movement.

Diffuses. If it defused, that would be better.

re: #227 JasonA

Huh. Didn't know that.

So is Danny Thomas but, he spent his life making people laugh and helping sick kids get well at St. Jude's in Memphis.

re: #210 darthstar

Hell doesn't exist.

Then you've never been to Texas.

re: #229 MandyManners

Even old folks can be assholes!

I know, but I tend to give them a wider berth.

My mother told me that she was of Lebanese descent. I completely forgot.

re: #222 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ron Paul in chaps with Helen Thomas wearing a leather bustier and holding Ron's leash.

*WHACK WHACK WHACK*

Go to your corner for 15 minutes.

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Diffuses. If it defused, that would be better.

Indeed!

re: #244 marjoriemoon

That, I think, explains a lot. Not excuses, at all, in the least.

re: #243 Stuart Leviton

Then you've never been to Texas.

You can't get the hell out of Texas

re: #238 marjoriemoon

Oh for sure.

Wouldn't surprise me one iota.

re: #245 MandyManners

*WHACK WHACK WHACK*

Go to your corner for 15 minutes.

Will the spankings continue?

re: #226 Bubblehead II

"An earlier launch attempt today at 1:30 p.m. EDT (1730 GMT) was aborted when a last minute glitch caused SpaceX to halt just after ignition of the rocket's engines."

Not a rocket scientist, but my understanding is that once one of these things light off, you don't shut them down. Any idea on how they managed it without damage to the engine of needing to refuel it?

That is only true of solid fuel rockets. It is easy to shut down a liquid fuel rocket by diverting the flow from the turbopump back to the tanks and shutting off the pump.

re: #225 MandyManners

I just remembered that her parents were from Lebanon. I wonder if that influences her POS POV.

AFAIK she comes from a Marionite Christian family.

re: #243 Stuart Leviton

Then you've never been to Texas.

I have, many times...lived there as a toddler for a short while even. But I never had a fiddle in the band.
/Alabama