Israeli Government Expresses ‘Grave Concern’ Over Cropped Photos

Media • Views: 3,909

The Jerusalem Post reports that the Israeli government has sent an official letter to Reuters CEO Tom Glocer about the photo cropping exposed at LGF: Gov’t disturbed by cropped photos.

A letter was sent to Reuters chief Tom Glocer on Monday expressing the “grave concern of the government of Israel” over the cropping of photographs taken from the Turkish Mavi Marmara ship last week by Minister of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs MK Yuli Edelstein.

The photos, which were published on Sunday in the Turkish Hurriyet daily, showed images of the commandos, their fatigues stained with blood, subdued by passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara ship but excluded the knives held by the aid activists.

At the popular blog LittleGreenFootballs.com, which initially took note of the missing knife, the blog’s founder Charles Johnson posted the story along with exhibits of both sets of pictures to the site.

Describing the cropping of the images of an “abuse of photo-imagery by Reuters,” Edelstein wrote, “I am sure you are aware that pictures – originally produced by the violent activists aboard the Mavi Marmara and published in the Turkish media - clearly show the use of knives against Israeli servicemen. However, when these pictures were initially distributed on the wires by Reuters picture service they were cropped to exclude the knives and blood that bore evidence of the violent intentions of those who participated in the attacks, and provided vital evidence in support of Israel’s claims.”

The letter was cc’d to David Thomson, Chairman Thomson Reuters, and Alistair MacDonald, Reuters Jerusalem Bureau Chief.

While acknowledging that Reuters has since “distributed the original images,” Edelstein added, “There is of course great concern that the altering of the images distributed could have been done with intent rather than due to mistakes in the editorial process.”

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199 comments
1 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:48:56am

LGF rules. Fuck you Reuters.

2 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:49:16am

Good on them, and good on you Charles.
You’ve created quite a platform to correct this nonsense.

Kol HaKavod!

3 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:49:42am

You better get Stinky to slip some steroids into the hamster feed, the wheels are not turning fast enough to handle the surge of readers this morning, LGF keeps timing out.

4 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:50:15am
5 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:50:50am

It’s happy hour in London. The Reuterists will need it.

6 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:51:35am

Hey Reuters, you need to buy some LGF cook books. Heh.

7 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:52:42am

LGF: We Fact-check your ass.

8 avanti  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:54:50am

Any comments from our pro Israel right wing blogs yet ? I noticed Lawhawk has it on his blog, without attribution, but any others ?

9 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:55:51am

OT:
Some brilliant photos of a “peace” rally in Tel Aviv, over at Israellycool. Apparently a group of people infiltrated the rally and help up some signs ridiculing the lefties.

Golden.

10 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:56:25am

re: #8 avanti

Any comments from our pro Israel right wing blogs yet ? I noticed Lawhawk has it on his blog, without attribution, but any others ?

Nope. They’re experiencing severe cognitive dissonance right now.

11 brennant  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:56:31am

I can’t keep up!

12 Political Atheist  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:56:44am

re: #6 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tell ya what-I’ll buy one and send it to them with a 1 page update-How to fry bad/agitprop editing. I would just need the address of the CEO
Nic is blue, I’ll do it.

13 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:56:59am

re: #8 avanti

commentary had a blurb posted yesterday, with a link to l.g.f.:

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com…]

it’s a start.

14 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:57:05am

re: #7 Alouette

LGF: We Fact-check your ass.

After what happened the last time, the editors at al-Reuters must be morons to think they could pass this off unnoticed.

15 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:58:04am

re: #9 Joo-LiZ

ROFL did you see the sign that says “don’t mess with the Zohan”? That one is the clear winner, imo. That movie was so dumb, and yet, so entertaining.

16 avanti  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:58:05am

Reuters

Blogs about it.

17 Judith  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:58:12am

Re Helen Thomas, I have said for years the double standard and biased reporting Israel gets subjected to is the result of deep seated hatred of Jews. THANK YOU Helen Thomas for proving me right.

Re catching Reuters doctoring photos to damage Israel yet again? Well done Charles!

18 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:59:34am

re: #16 avanti

Reuters

Blogs about it.

Uh huh.

When we realized that a dagger was inadvertently cropped from the images, Reuters immediately moved the original set, as well.
19 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:59:37am

re: #16 avanti

but the only address one photo, not the number that charles has uncovered.

shocking. really.

20 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 9:59:40am

re: #12 Rightwingconspirator

Tell ya what-I’ll buy one and send it to them with a 1 page update-How to fry bad/agitprop editing. I would just need the address of the CEO
Nic is blue, I’ll do it.

[Link: tomglocer.com…]

Send him an email and ask!

21 Ming  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:00:15am

Charles deserves tremendous gratitude for calling attention to this cropping of photos. I would assume that this cropping is motivated by an opposition to Israel, and I am once again frankly amazed at how strong is the hatred against Israel, for some people. At times like this, I sympathize with the attitude of some Israelis that their country will never be accepted by the “international community”, so all that can be done is to prepare for more violence.

22 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:00:42am

re: #16 avanti

Reuters

Blogs about it.

inadvertently my ass!

23 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:00:44am

re: #10 Charles

Nope. They’re experiencing severe cognitive dissonance right now.

The malcontents just didn’t understand what was happening here when they made their flounces: LGF has been a real player in world affairs, there was a reason for that, and it would probably happen again.
There is no place like this on the entire net.

24 Judith  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:00:48am

Reuters inadvertently reveals how much they hate Jews and how dishonest they are once again.

25 webevintage  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:00:56am

Kudos for the amazing work on this story….

And is anyone else looking forward to the articles/whining/gnashing of teeth and general asshattery from the villagers that we will soon experience in regard to just WHO will be allowed to slip into Helen’s front row seat?

26 jc717  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:01:12am

Nice to see LGF get the recognition.

27 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:01:24am

There have been 103,000 page views so far this morning, what is the record for most views in a day?

28 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:01:26am

re: #18 JasonA

Yeah, I saw that too. Reuters apparently is going with the “It was an accident!” excuse.

29 CapeCoddah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:02:08am

Hey everyone.
Helen Thomas has announced her immediate retirement.

30 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:02:08am

re: #27 Reginald Perrin

There have been 103,000 page views so far this morning, what is the record for most views in a day?

It’s just about midday and we’ve already topped yesterday’s hits.

31 avanti  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:02:37am

re: #22 alexknyc

inadvertently my ass!

I did not have sex with that woman, I slipped and my penis fell in her mouth.

32 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:03:18am

re: #28 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I saw that too. Reuters apparently is going with the “It was an accident!” excuse.

Notice how, in the second picture, the left side of the image was left where it was. The right side, with the knife, was cropped. No, Reuters, that’s not unintentional. Moar lize.

33 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:03:33am

You’re lying, Reuters. One cropping *might* be an accident but, not this many.

34 Judith  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:03:40am

re: #29 CapeCoddah

yes but she didn’t announce she was retiring, Hearst announced she was retiring. As in “She’s outta here!’

35 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:03:49am

re: #30 Joo-LiZ

It’s just about midday and we’ve already topped yesterday’s hits.

I saw that, but I was wondering how Monday traffic compares to Sunday normally.

36 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:04:03am

re: #29 CapeCoddah

Hey everyone.
Helen Thomas has announced her immediate retirement.

Nah, Hearst announced it for her. Tells me they gave her the “choice” of either retiring with dignity or being fired publicly.

37 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:04:32am

re: #11 brennant

I can’t keep up!

There’s medication available for that.

38 israellycool  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:04:37am

re: #10 Charles

With all due respect, I posted it with attribution to you Charles immediately after I read your posts

39 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:04:42am

Reuters has made the top of MyListtm!!

40 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:05:18am

re: #39 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reuters has made the top of MyListtm!!

Did you get the frequency, Kenneth?

/

41 CapeCoddah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:05:30am

re: #36 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nah, Hearst announced it for her. Tells me they gave her the “choice” of either retiring with dignity or being fired publicly.

re: #34 Judith

yes but she didn’t announce she was retiring, Hearst announced she was retiring. As in “She’s outta here!’

Heh, I dont care how it happened… it works for me either way!

42 Spider Mensch  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:05:44am

Thank Goodness here at LGF we can at least get the real story.
as a side note, just got done talking with my friend in Holon…I asked her what she thought of the flap with rueters..her exact words.. ” Ah! how can you take a group who is in the arabs pocket books word for anything? we know what side their bread is buttered on. why would we ever expect them to be balanced?”

43 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:06:05am

re: #40 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Did you get the frequency, Kenneth?

/

He’s #2.

44 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:06:48am

re: #43 Cannadian Club Akbar

He’s #2.

“You are number six.”

45 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:06:58am

re: #30 Joo-LiZ

It’s just about midday and we’ve already topped yesterday’s hits.

Some of us have been busy at work. ;-)

46 Judith  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:07:12am

JerusalemFull Credit to LGF Post gives full credit to Charles

“At the popular blog LittleGreenFootballs.com, which initially took note of the missing knife, the blog’s founder Charles Johnson posted the story along with exhibits of both sets of pictures to the site.”

47 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:07:22am

re: #44 JasonA

“You are number six.”

Upding for the Prisoner reference.

48 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:07:26am

Three more visits until a hundred for the day!

Reuters
Today: 97
Yesterday: 9

49 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:07:26am

re: #44 JasonA

“You are number six.”

I am not a number, I am a free man.

50 Political Atheist  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

That’s it I’m calling D_L to get this underway. I had found this other page-dozens of addresses!

51 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #29 CapeCoddah

Hey everyone.
Helen Thomas has announced her immediate retirement.


Helen Thomas is still alive?! /I thought that read internment.

52 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:17am

re: #49 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am not a number, I am a free man.

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

53 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:23am

re: #38 israellycool

With all due respect, I posted it with attribution to you Charles immediately after I read your posts

I LUV your hijacked moonbat protest pix!

54 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:30am

re: #29 CapeCoddah

Hey everyone.
Helen Thomas has announced her immediate retirement.

This is probably the best thing that could have happened for her. Now she will be free to say what she wants. For her, that’s probably a silver lining.

55 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:08:33am

re: #46 Judith

JerusalemFull Credit to LGF Post gives full credit to Charles

“At the popular blog LittleGreenFootballs.com, which initially took note of the missing knife, the blog’s founder Charles Johnson posted the story along with exhibits of both sets of pictures to the site.”

I seem to recall the Israeli government personally sending Charles a thank you the last time.

56 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:04am

Contact Thomson Reuters here.

Be nice. Be polite.

57 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:29am
58 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:35am

re: #49 Cannadian Club Akbar

re: #52 alexknyc

59 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:43am

Reuters was founded in 1851, the same year the Library of Congress burned down.

60 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:57am

I must admit when I saw the first thread (here) on this topic, I wasn’t convinced that the cropping was malicious. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, that the editor had simply cropped in tighter on the subject. The subsequent threads showing more of the same (and more egregious) cropping hammered the point home for me. There is now no question in my mind that someone at Reuters was cropping these photos with the intent to “soften” the activists in the eyes of the viewer.

Once crop could be coincidence. This many crops that remove weaponry, blood, etc. simply can’t be an accident. This is the post that eliminated all doubt for me. The knife, the pool of blood, and the injured arm, all cropped neatly out really changed the image to mean something completely different to the viewer. Even a raging ‘moonbat’ liberal such as myself must admit: there is obvious evidence of bias here.

Keep up the good work, Charles.

61 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:09:59am

re: #52 alexknyc

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

Very, very cool stuff (the original). I’m not so sure how I felt about the remake.

62 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:10:00am

re: #38 israellycool

With all due respect, I posted it with attribution to you Charles immediately after I read your posts

I know, and I appreciate it. You haven’t participated in the virtual lynch mob against me, either, for which I thank you.

63 israellycool  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:10:13am

re: #53 Alouette

Yeah, those pictures made my day!

64 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:10:43am

re: #59 Shiplord Kirel

Reuters was founded in 1851, the same year the Library of Congress burned down.


Quick to the Glenn Beck Blackboard… we can connect the lines of the conspiracy! //

65 Bloodnok  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:10:51am

re: #59 Shiplord Kirel

Reuters was founded in 1851, the same year the Library of Congress burned down.

Did they fake the photos of that too?

66 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:11:07am

Rand Paul is going to be on Rush’s show anytime now.

67 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:11:14am

re: #41 CapeCoddah

Heh, I dont care how it happened… it works for me either way!

I’m temtped to make up a song along the lines of “Ding dong, the witch is dead” but, substitute “bitch” for “witch” and “gone” for “dead”.

68 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:11:31am

re: #56 MandyManners

Contact Thomson Reuters here.

Be nice. Be polite.

Does that mean we can’t tell them to urinate upwards on some woven fibers?

69 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:11:40am

Is Inayat Bunglawala still at Reuters?

70 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:11:40am

re: #61 DaddyG

Very, very cool stuff (the original). I’m not so sure how I felt about the remake.

I’m sure— I thought it sucked.

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:12:21am

If these guys offer to photoshop for the public, I’m getting a pic of me with Sofie!!

72 Gus  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:12:25am

49% Say Pro-Palestinian Activists To Blame in Gaza Ship Incident - Rasmussen Reports™

Forty-nine percent (49%) of U.S. voters believe pro-Palestinian activists on the Gaza-bound aid ships raided by Israeli forces are to blame for the deaths that resulted in the high-profile incident.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 19% of voters think the Israelis are to blame. Thirty-two percent (32%) more are not sure.

Unfortunately this means that almost 50% of Americans are clueless.

73 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:12:34am

re: #57 Joo-LiZ

Warning, GRAPHIC poverty:
Comparison of poverty in Gaza to elsewhere in the Muslim world


You see! We need to send Turkish relief boats to more Muslim countries. /moonbat

74 alexknyc  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:13:11am

re: #72 Gus 802

49% Say Pro-Palestinian Activists To Blame in Gaza Ship Incident - Rasmussen Reports™

Unfortunately this means that almost 50% of Americans are clueless.

Maybe more.

It’s Rassmussen. Don’t they lean right?

75 Gus  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:13:35am

re: #74 alexknyc

Maybe more.

It’s Rassmussen. Don’t they lean right?

Yes.

76 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:13:46am

I found a website in Hebrew (?) mentioning LGF. Can anyone translate?

77 brookly red  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:14:29am

So I am wondering is Reuters pulling this crap for political/idealogical reasons or is there some form of financial motivation? Hmmm?

78 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:14:48am

re: #76 njdhockeyfan

I found a website in Hebrew (?) mentioning LGF. Can anyone translate?

I’ll put 5 bucks on “Yes”.

79 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:15:30am

re: #76 njdhockeyfan

I found a website in Hebrew (?) mentioning LGF. Can anyone translate?

Autotranslated and unedited:

International news agency Reuters does it again: some pictures of thesquadron’s fighters taking on the “ship Evie Marmara” newspaper published in Turkish Hureite attackers were soldiers standing over them Achsabidiam of three knives. Pictures, which he photographed the activists of the ship, obtained by The Turk then rolled into various news agencies, who distributed them among the world’s media. However, distributed photographs, Reuters has no memory of knives.

Two different cases can easily distinguish how it changed the picture angle that looked original image knives were gone. A similar incident occurred in the second Lebanon war Achsahsuachneut its members admitted that the value of Lebanon’s image burning software and graphic.

The current case was first published in the popular American blog Little Green Footballs. Editors presented two original photos submitted for publication by the activists, alongside the pictures to Reuters pizza to the media. Original photographs are clearly three men holding knives over a fighter squadron wounded lying on the floor of the ship. Reuters distributed photographs, however, the knives were left outside the frame by zooming, one of them disappeared red stain, possibly blood.

Reuters said in response: “Reuters is committed to accurate and comprehensive reporting. Every scene shifts to find out our way carefully and pass through a process of evaluation journalist. Pictures which are in Istanbul and were accepted for publication and distribution process, including the cutting Akcctim, according to the usual procedure. When I noticed that during the cutting was removed from them inadvertently dagger, We distributed the original photos instantly

80 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:15:41am

re: #8 avanti

Actually, I link directly to Charles’ post - the update goes directly to here.

And right now, Blogger isn’t working so I can’t post or update.

81 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:16:33am

re: #56 MandyManners

Contact Thomson Reuters here.

Be nice. Be polite.

And, you might want to send the link to that contact form around.

82 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:16:34am

re: #64 DaddyG

Quick to the Glenn Beck Blackboard… we can connect the lines of the conspiracy! //

The Reuters headquarters at Canary Wharf London certainly looks like something only a nefarious conspirator would call home. Retired communist Bulgarian secret police operatives must be envious.

83 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:16:52am

“Reuters pizza to the media”

Gotta love translation software.

84 Bloodnok  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:16:58am

re: #79 Joo-LiZ

to Reuters pizza the media?

85 ShaunP  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:17:14am

re: #83 DaddyG

“Reuters pizza to the media”

Gotta love translation software.

Shoot, beat me to it… :D

86 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:17:44am

re: #83 DaddyG

“Reuters pizza to the media”

Gotta love translation software.

Pineapple involved?

87 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:17:50am

“Reuters pizza to the media”

That would be a rotating title back in the day

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:18:12am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pineapple involved?

NEVER!!!

89 israellycool  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:18:19am

re: #62 Charles

No need to thank me for being grateful for the support you have shown me over the years, as well as for respecting your right to express your opinions.

90 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:18:23am

I still can’t google up that leaked Reuters memo of several years that warned of a crackdown on workplace drunkenness at the London headquarters.

91 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:18:29am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pineapple involved?


That would be truly evil.

92 brookly red  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:18:42am

re: #83 DaddyG

“Reuters pizza to the media”

Gotta love translation software.

for the record I had absolutely nothing to do with that…

93 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:19:01am

re: #76 njdhockeyfan

Ah, you found Ma’ariv. They used to have an English version, but canned it years ago. Now, you’ve got to hope that the auto-translate services can get the translation done in some reasonable facsimile of English.

94 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:19:04am

lol, I found this one amusing, although I’m sure someone here will be offended.

Image: 28196_394825261609_501791609_4708128_4691201_n.jpg

95 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:19:10am

re: #40 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Did you get the frequency, Kenneth?

/

Helen Thomas sure got it. She just joined the Dan Rather Club: It’s membership consists of journalists who had successful careers, only to retire in disgrace because they let their hatreds rule them.

96 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:19:39am

re: #93 lawhawk

Ah, you found Ma’ariv. They used to have an English version, but canned it years ago. Now, you’ve got to hope that the auto-translate services can get the translation done in some reasonable facsimile of English.


I still think Pong was a cool idea.

97 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:20:08am

So the boys at Reuters apparently have settled on the “It was an honest mistake!” excuse, saying that the knives weren’t intentionally cropped out, but that it was a consequence of cropping the photos for distribution. No acknowledgment that the cropping of said knives out alters the interpretation of the photo or that posting the original photos in place of the altered ones without any acknowledgment is a violation of their own rules.

It’s basically the same as Helen Thomas’ apology: Insincere and full of shit.

98 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:20:41am

re: #68 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that mean we can’t tell them to urinate upwards on some woven fibers?

Would you please be so kind as to piss up a rope?

99 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:21:58am

re: #72 Gus 802

49% Say Pro-Palestinian Activists To Blame in Gaza Ship Incident - Rasmussen Reports™

Unfortunately this means that almost 50% of Americans are clueless.

It’s worse than that. The survey is of likely voters, which means these are the people who actually vote in midterm elections.

100 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:25:50am

New word: Reuters photo-crapping!

101 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:26:59am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pineapple involved?

Maybe the Noid.

102 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:29:13am

I come back to LGF after years away and things go pear-shaped. I knew I was a bad luck charm.

103 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:29:59am

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Helen Thomas sure got it. She just joined the Dan Rather Club: It’s membership consists of journalists who had successful careers, only to retire in disgrace because they let their hatreds rule them.

Don’t you mean defenders of freedom and liberty who have been brought down by a fiendish Joo plot?

/

104 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:30:00am

re: #94 Joo-LiZ

lol, I found this one amusing, although I’m sure someone here will be offended.

Image: 28196_394825261609_501791609_4708128_4691201_n.jpg

That reminds me of this.

105 ryannon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:31:40am

re: #90 Shiplord Kirel

I still can’t google up that leaked Reuters memo of several years that warned of a crackdown on workplace drunkenness at the London headquarters.

Well it’s gotta be around here somewhere. Now pass me a goddamn beer.

106 Baier  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:36:20am

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

If you read the entire article, only 19% think Israel is to blame. I think it’s reasonable for someone that does not follow the issue that closely to be undecided. The undecideds correspond with the amount of people that claim to not be following the issue. I actually find the poll heartening.

107 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:41:26am

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

That reminds me of this.

Scary, but they shouldn’t have captioned it “South Park Terrorist”. “I Love to Singa” was a song from a Warner Brother cartoon that was a semi-spoof of Al Jolson.

108 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:42:16am

I think my hamsters melted down.

109 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:42:51am

re: #87 Alouette

“Reuters pizza to the media”

That would be a rotating title back in the day

We still got ‘em. Upper right hand corner, just above the “LGF Pages” thingy. And that would be a good one.

110 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:43:41am

Oh, to all those people who were certain sure that the White House would gloss over Helen Thomas’s statements and give them a pass: neener!

“Those remarks were offensive and reprehensible,” [White House spokesman Robert] Gibbs said, noting that Thomas has apologized. Her sentiments “do not reflect certainly most of the people here and certainly not those of the administration.”

111 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:44:38am

re: #106 Baier

If you read the entire article, only 19% think Israel is to blame. I think it’s reasonable for someone that does not follow the issue that closely to be undecided. The undecideds correspond with the amount of people that claim to not be following the issue. I actually find the poll heartening.

The fact that 32% are undecided on blame makes it doubly important that the truth gets out about the cropped photos so people can make their decision based on facts and not emotions. The first casualty of war is the truth, kudos to Charles for his part in the fight for truth and honest unbiased reporting,

112 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:44:38am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Oh, to all those people who were certain sure that the White House would gloss over Helen Thomas’s statements and give them a pass: neener!

WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG?

///

No pleasing some people

113 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:46:41am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Oh, to all those people who were certain sure that the White House would gloss over Helen Thomas’s statements and give them a pass: neener!

Ouch! Not bad enough to be made to fall on her own sword, but to have the White House not even come to her defense? Yeah, I don’t think there was any way she was going to come out of this smelling of roses.

114 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:47:28am

Reuters
Today: 101
Yesterday: 9

115 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:50:19am

Hey there Reuter Rooters! “All the news thats print to fit”.

Now get back to work- all those nasty truths won’t crop themselves out of photos you know.

116 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:51:00am

Helen Thomas retires amid controversy over Israel remarks

Veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas announced Monday that she is retiring, effective immediately, in the wake of a controversy over her comments on Israel, according to a report from her employer, Hearst News Service.

Thomas told a rabbi at a White House event last week that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and go back to Germany and Poland.

117 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:51:43am

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan

Oh man, she said that to a Rabbi???

/facepalm

118 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:52:42am

re: #57 Joo-LiZ

Warning, GRAPHIC poverty:
Comparison of poverty in Gaza to elsewhere in the Muslim world

Joo-Liz, you are cherry picking photos. That is similar to what Reuters is doing. Do you really want that comparison made?

119 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:55:08am

re: #77 brookly red

So I am wondering is Reuters pulling this crap for political/idealogical reasons or is there some form of financial motivation? Hmmm?

Reuters pulling this makes no sense. There is no way to make the event less violent than it was.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:55:42am

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Oh, to all those people who were certain sure that the White House would gloss over Helen Thomas’s statements and give them a pass: neener!

Well, I suppose they weren’t going to say “the doyenne of the press corps is a raging anti-Semite. We all plan to crawl on our knees of the aisle of the National Cathedral to repent. Film at eleven.” So, OK, that’s something.

121 Bombarafat  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:57:54am

Great! two chinks in the LLL media armor in one day. First crazy Aunt Helen now Reuters.

122 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:58:28am

Official Reuters Headline: “Israeli Government …press… …rave… …Over… …Photos”

123 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:59:55am

Helen’s getting quite the show of support over at the HuffPo comments… again.

124 Gus  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:02:22am

re: #123 JasonA

Helen’s getting quite the show of support over at the HuffPo comments… again.

I think “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is on the Huffington Post reading list.

125 SixDegrees  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:02:27am

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Helen Thomas sure got it. She just joined the Dan Rather Club: It’s membership consists of journalists who had successful careers, only to retire in disgrace because they let their hatreds rule them.

I agree. An ignominious end to a long career.

There are Munchkins singing a song in my head…

126 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:08:20am

The two photos were realised as part of a set, and the other photos clearly seem to show the Turkish activists helping the Israeli soldiers:One; Two; Three

So, the two photos in question here were apparently doctored because they don’t fit the above narrative, and such doctoring is obviously inexcusable. Its hard to say that those knives were found in the first aid kit. But don’t let this distract us from the otherwise highly equivocal nature of the photos, taken as a whole set. They simply do not “prove” that Israeli soldiers was set upon by the activists without provocation. In fact, as you all probably know, numerous eyewitnesses, having since been released, now claim that the IDF fired first before boarding, and that this was the initial aggression

127 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:13:28am

re: #123 JasonA

Helen’s getting quite the show of support over at the HuffPo comments… again.

The Diggbats have set their anti-semite phasers to maximum as well.

128 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:13:29am

re: #126 Christopher H

If you look at those in reverse order, it looks to me like a case of, “Hey, no cameras until we get some of the blood off!”

129 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:14:25am

re: #126 Christopher H

That may or may not be true (in reference to the initiation of aggression) but selectively cropping photos to play to a particular narrative of events is a huuuuuge no-no. they might have been able to claim that one photo-cropping was incidental, that they had cropped to bring the focus tighter in on the IDF soldier, but that went out the window when it became a pattern.

The context of the entire fiasco is what makes the crops telling.

130 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:15:55am

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Helen Thomas sure got it. She just joined the Dan Rather Club: It’s membership consists of journalists who had successful careers, only to retire in disgrace because they let their hatreds rule them.

hatreds = letting the agenda come out in full as opposed to keeping it a secret and just swaying public debate using ‘nuance’ and tactfully crafted wordsmithing.

131 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:16:02am

re: #126 Christopher H

Yes, it is heartening to see at least one of the ‘activists’ apparently protecting the captured Israeli soldier. That he needed protection and was injured is, of course, the main point.

However, I don’t know why you give credence to the ‘eyewitnesses’ above and beyond the video that we have seen AND the testimony of the Al-Jazeera reporter.

Can you explain why you give credence to their statements, given the video evidence and the Al-Jazeera reporter’s comments?

132 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:17:01am

re: #126 Christopher H

The two photos were realised as part of a set, and the other photos clearly seem to show the Turkish activists helping the Israeli soldiers:One; Two; Three

So, the two photos in question here were apparently doctored because they don’t fit the above narrative, and such doctoring is obviously inexcusable. Its hard to say that those knives were found in the first aid kit. But don’t let this distract us from the otherwise highly equivocal nature of the photos, taken as a whole set. They simply do not “prove” that Israeli soldiers was set upon by the activists without provocation. In fact, as you all probably know, numerous eyewitnesses, having since been released, now claim that the IDF fired first before boarding, and that this was the initial aggression

We’ve had numerous discussions about the various accounts and the evidence for various claims. Photos one and two that you link must be new, I hadn’t seen them.

However, regardless, we’ve talked about the fact that the ship clearly had different groups aboard, and while the IHH mercenaries were being violent top-side, others better intentioned may have taken control of the situation inside the ship. It’s all speculation, but points have been made on LGF.

None of it excuses the cropping of the photos (as you state in your post)

133 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:17:47am

re: #117 Fozzie Bear

said it to a rabbi at a white house gathering to celebrate national jewish heritage month.

134 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:18:49am

re: #132 Joo-LiZ

We’ve had numerous discussions about the various accounts and the evidence for various claims. Photos one and two that you link must be new, I hadn’t seen them.

However, regardless, we’ve talked about the fact that the ship clearly had different groups aboard, and while the IHH mercenaries were being violent top-side, others better intentioned may have taken control of the situation inside the ship. It’s all speculation, but points have been made on LGF.

None of it excuses the cropping of the photos (as you state in your post)

But hey, according to posters at ‘True/Slant’: “Peace activists” does not mean “Pacifists”.

/teh brilliance of that comment is bruising my brain..

135 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:20:40am

re: #118 b_sharp

Joo-Liz, you are cherry picking photos. That is similar to what Reuters is doing. Do you really want that comparison made?

It’s not my own page, I linked it because it paints the hypocrisy in stark terms.

I can pull out quality-of-life metrics and statistics if you prefer, Gaza’s infant mortality rate, life expectancy at time of birth, and several other metrics are well above the global average, and much higher than those of nearby muslim states.

Not to say the lives of Gazans are all that great. They have very little economy, are heavily oppressed, and overall aren’t in great shape.

136 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:21:06am

re: #134 Oh no…Sand People!

It as if the long, proud, brave tradition of actual peaceful activists, like the women’s suffrage movement, the civil rights movement, and Ghandi, simply didn’t exist to them.

It’s not hard to be a peaceful activist. You mainly have to avoid violence. It’s not rocket surgery.

137 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:21:51am

re: #136 Obdicut

It as if the long, proud, brave tradition of actual peaceful activists, like the women’s suffrage movement, the civil rights movement, and Ghandi, simply didn’t exist to them.

It’s not hard to be a peaceful activist. You mainly have to avoid violence. It’s not rocket surgery.

Mixed metaphors… love it. Was that intentional? Rocket science/brain surgery.

138 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:22:24am

re: #119 b_sharp

Reuters pulling this makes no sense. There is no way to make the event less violent than it was.

Wrong. The medium is the message.

139 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:23:09am

LGF Reuters link on AP’s front page.

Heh.

140 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:25:55am

re: #137 Joo-LiZ

Mixed metaphors… love it. Was that intentional? Rocket science/brain surgery.

Yes. That’s my favorite mixed metaphor.

141 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:30:55am

re: #139 NJDhockeyfan

LGF Reuters link on AP’s front page.

Heh.

Woot!

142 SixDegrees  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:31:27am

re: #126 Christopher H

Yes, and I’m pretty sure that the Evil Joooz were behind Helen Thomas’ firing, too.

//, like it’s needed.

143 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:32:24am

re: #133 Kefirah

said it to a rabbi at a white house gathering to celebrate national jewish heritage month.

She might as well have drawn a Mohammad cartoon in the middle of Hajj.
Oh, but then she wouldn’t still be breathing air.

144 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:34:10am

re: #142 SixDegrees

Yes, and I’m pretty sure that the Evil Joooz were behind Helen Thomas’ firing, too.

//, like it’s needed.

Well, anyone who’ll believe Turkish Islamists over the IDF might actually think that.

145 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:34:55am

re: #131 Obdicut

Without excusing the knife-wielding actions of those on board (out of the 500, seemingly a very distinct minority), its surely the case that the IDF is to blame for the violence for forcing the confrontation, if nothing else. The IDF were on their boat, not the other way around (a very simple observation in danger of getting lost here). It was 4:30 in the morning, in pitch black, and the IDF’s absurd reaction created the conditions for the situation to get out of control.

On the eyewitness reports: they tend to give a fuller picture of the events, not just a “snapshot” like the IDF videos did (through I have no idea why you’d trust the IDF over civilian eyewitnesses, unless there was compelling contrary evidence). It puts things in perspective to learn that the boarding from the helicopters occurred after the initial “buzzing” of the ship by Israeli military boats, shooting tear gas and rubber bullets on deck in an obvious attempt at intimidation. Am not sure of the Al-Jazeera journalist you are refering to, but Jamal Elshayyal - the only journalist on board the Mavi Marmara at the time - confirmed the “Israel-shot-first” line.

146 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:39:12am

re: #145 Christopher H

There were 70-some journalists in the flotilla, and only one of them was on the Mavi Marmara? I find that hard to believe.

147 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:40:08am

re: #145 Christopher H

its surely the case that the IDF is to blame for the violence for forcing the confrontation, if nothing else.

No, they’re not. On the other boats, no violence occurred because there was no violent resistance.

Your logic is terrible. Why do you place the starting point for this confrontation with the IDF boarding the boats, not the boats trying to run the blockade?

I think there’s about a 1% chance you’ll give me an honest answer here.

148 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:41:08am

re: #143 Oh no…Sand People!

fair play, counselor. fair play.

an excellent example of the stark differences in how various groups deal with hateful discourse.

149 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:41:24am

re: #147 Obdicut

No, they’re not. On the other boats, no violence occurred because there was no violent resistance.

Your logic is terrible. Why do you place the starting point for this confrontation with the IDF boarding the boats, not the boats trying to run the blockade?

I think there’s about a 1% chance you’ll give me an honest answer here.

I’d have asked the same question, but you asked it as well as I possibly could.

150 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:42:01am

re: #146 wrenchwench

even assuming that what christopher h. says is true, it cuts both ways. if the militia men were onboard the mavi, and were premeditating violence, it makes sense to limit journalists’ access.

151 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:44:33am

re: #132 Joo-LiZ

Yeh I can appreciate that we dont need to go into all the arguments again. But I think its slightly strange that amongst all this discussion of the doctored photos, the accompanying photos of the very same set have seemingly been ignored. Its easy to jump all over some punk kid getting too excited with his Photoshop, because it allows us to forget the actual issues. Reuters probably never saw the originals of the doctored photos, so I cant believe the bias aspect here goes as far up the hierarchy as is being implied

152 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:48:57am

re: #151 Christopher H

Yeh I can appreciate that we dont need to go into all the arguments again. But I think its slightly strange that amongst all this discussion of the doctored photos, the accompanying photos of the very same set have seemingly been ignored. Its easy to jump all over some punk kid getting too excited with his Photoshop, because it allows us to forget the actual issues. Reuters probably never saw the originals of the doctored photos, so I cant believe the bias aspect here goes as far up the hierarchy as is being implied

The actual issue is that Israeli soldiers, enforcing a blockade needed to defend their country against a totalitarian aggressor, were ambushed by men in the service of a Turkish Islamist organization.+

153 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:49:22am

It’s amazing how on one hand you say we don’t really know anything concrete, but are so willing to lay this at the feet of ‘some punk kid with photoshop’.

154 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:50:58am

re: #147 Obdicut

There was nothing that mandated the IDF to react in the way it did to the flotilla. There was no need to board the ship, let alone in the dark, in the middle of the ocean (in international waters, the Israeli navy had no business even being near the flotilla). It was, at the very very best, extremely idiotic.

155 dugmartsch  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:52:19am

re: #60 Fozzie Bear

I must admit when I saw the first thread (here) on this topic, I wasn’t convinced that the cropping was malicious. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, that the editor had simply cropped in tighter on the subject. The subsequent threads showing more of the same (and more egregious) cropping hammered the point home for me. There is now no question in my mind that someone at Reuters was cropping these photos with the intent to “soften” the activists in the eyes of the viewer.

Once crop could be coincidence. This many crops that remove weaponry, blood, etc. simply can’t be an accident. This is the post that eliminated all doubt for me. The knife, the pool of blood, and the injured arm, all cropped neatly out really changed the image to mean something completely different to the viewer. Even a raging ‘moonbat’ liberal such as myself must admit: there is obvious evidence of bias here.

Keep up the good work, Charles.

This isn’t bias. This is reality distortion.

Reporting the stories that make someone look good and not reporting the bad stories is bias.

Altering photos to fit your version of reality is out of 1984.

156 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:56:31am

re: #154 Christopher H

There was nothing that mandated the IDF to react in the way it did to the flotilla. There was no need to board the ship, let alone in the dark, in the middle of the ocean (in international waters, the Israeli navy had no business even being near the flotilla). It was, at the very very best, extremely idiotic.

You failed to even try to answer my question.

157 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:57:51am

re: #155 dugmartsch

This isn’t bias. This is reality distortion.

Reporting the stories that make someone look good and not reporting the bad stories is bias.

Altering photos to fit your version of reality is out of 1984.

Call it whatever you want. It’s a bias, and an apparently strong one. This is what bias looks like, in action.

158 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 11:58:39am

re: #156 Obdicut

You failed to even try to answer my question.

He only registered here today, Obi. I’d guess he followed a link and decided to troll. He’s clearly new to this place, since otherwise he’d realize that we don’t like repetition of talking points here.

159 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:00:22pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

The blockade is illegal under international law and has no real connection to Israeli security. If we want to go that far down the chain, the blockade was the initial act of aggression

The IHH is an international NGO created to help deal with the humanitarian crisis in the Balkans. Now of course, I don’t know that there weren’t “Islamists” on the boat, there may have been. But I haven’t seen any compelling evidence against the IHH as an organisation. If you have anything to suggest they are, Id like to see it

160 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:04:18pm

re: #159 Christopher H

The blockade is illegal under international law and has no real connection to Israeli security. If we want to go that far down the chain, the blockade was the initial act of aggression

The IHH is an international NGO created to help deal with the humanitarian crisis in the Balkans. Now of course, I don’t know that there weren’t “Islamists” on the boat, there may have been. But I haven’t seen any compelling evidence against the IHH as an organisation. If you have anything to suggest they are, Id like to see it

Shooting the Messenger: A Look at the Facts on the Turkish Aid Group IHH

By Evan Kohlmann

When I first published a research paper four years ago with the Danish Institute for International Studies (DIIS) on the Turkish Muslim charitable group Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), I didn’t imagine it would get much of a response outside the academic conference in which it was presented in Copenhagen. However, as a result of this weekend’s tragic Israeli raid on an IHH-sponsored flotilla of vessels attempting to break the ongoing blockade on Gaza, the group has suddenly jumped into the headlines, and has become a focus of intense debate over the intentions of the flotilla organizers and the controversial killing of at least 9 would-be participants by Israeli commandos.

Though my DIIS paper made no mention of IHH’s activities in Gaza or in support of suffering Palestinian refugees, some of those angered by the Israeli flotilla raid have instead turned their emotional animus on past critics of IHH, such as myself. While I certainly can’t speak with any authority on what took place on the Gaza flotilla boats, I’m rather mystified why the flotilla killings—whether right or wrong—would have any bearing on the factual question of whether the IHH has engaged in illicit financing and episodic support to extremist groups. The evidence in this regard is fairly weighty, and much of it comes directly from the Turkish government — not the United States, nor the Israelis.

The IHH has been a known supporter of terror attacks for almost a decade. We have gone over this as well. I highly recommend you read through the last week’s set of LGF threads on the issue. Many links, many supporting arguments, many facts abound.

161 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:04:23pm

re: #159 Christopher H

Cite the law you’re claiming makes it illegal, please.

162 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:07:07pm

re: #156 Obdicut

I answered your question. Israel took the decision to force a confrontation and, in the end, risk violence (on both sides), rather than allow the Free Gaza movement a small PR victory.

163 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:07:32pm

re: #160 Joo-LiZ

you beat me to it. well done.

164 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:09:12pm

re: #162 Christopher H

That wasn’t my question. I asked why you put the moment of decision at that point, rather than with the decision to run the Gaza blockade. You did not answer, but repeated your assertion.

I would also like you to cite the law you claim makes the blockade illegal. Can you do that?

165 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:10:34pm

re: #162 Christopher H

I answered your question. Israel took the decision to force a confrontation and, in the end, risk violence (on both sides), rather than allow the Free Gaza movement a small PR victory.

A small PR victory. Those ships could have been carrying RPG-7s for all Israel knew. Given the violent aggression of Hamas, Israel does have the right to inspect cargoes bound for Gaza. Hamas declared war on them, and they have the right to respond.

166 DaddyG  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:11:05pm

If the measured response to the last floatilla gave them such a large PR hurt what motivation do they have to refrain from blowing the next blockade runner out of the water completely?

167 MagnaniomousCoward  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:11:32pm

All it takes for a blockade to be in place is for a country to announce it and enforce it, including in international waters. Sure the Security Council could declare it illegal, but without that the blockade is legal and in effect. You may disagree, but that’s how it is.

168 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:12:28pm

re: #126 Christopher H

I hate to be the one to bring reality to you, but if the IDF fired first before boarding, there would have been no one left to attack them as they came down the rope. Believe me, the area would have been very clear before any soldier slid down.

169 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:13:04pm

re: #162 Christopher H

I answered your question. Israel took the decision to force a confrontation and, in the end, risk violence (on both sides), rather than allow the Free Gaza movement a small PR victory.

Now say the inverse.

The Free Gaza movement not only risked, but initiated violence in the pursuit of a small PR victory.

I’m comfortable standing with Israel on this one…

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:14:12pm

re: #169 Aceofwhat?

Hey Ace. Nice to see you again.

171 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:15:27pm

re: #162 Christopher H

small public relations victory?

i’m don’t believe the stories floating ‘round about heavy ammunition, etc., being found on board, but really? small public relations victory? the 50 or so militia.types were found with equal amounts of cash in their pockets, and that added up to huge sums of money [i’ve heard 1 million euros], and even if you don’t believe that, the “free gaza” movement would have trumpeted their victory to the skies.

and then israel would have taken a beating in global media for not allowing the next flotilla, or the next. and who knows which one would be loaded with more qassams or ammunition or nails coated in anti.coagulant?

furthermore, had the shayetet fired first, there would have been no beatings of soldiers with metal rods, or throwing of soldiers onto lower decks. there is video of men using a chainsaw to take apart their boat’s railing in order to arm themselves. if you’re under fire, is that something you have the time or the inclination to do?

i have zero problem with your opinion on the overall legality or ethical nature of the blockade. to each his or her own - we can agree to disagree. but i do think you’re incorrectly characterizing what the end result of letting the flotilla through would be, at least from the israeli point of view.

172 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:16:36pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Hey Ace. Nice to see you again.

Hey dude. Been busy. Hope your preparations for upcoming life upheaval are going well-

173 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:18:15pm

re: #160 Joo-LiZ

Yeh, I know of the Danish Institute paper. The evidence cited seems fairly tenuous. Even the US acknowledges that the link cannot be validated (that is, to Al-Qaeda). I can imagine that it funds what Israel considers illicit groups like Hamas, but that is hardly what you are alleging here

I will look at the previous threads here, I am new to LGF

174 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:21:22pm

International Waters!!1!

Oh wait, Israel’s blockade is legal and they have every right to board in international waters to enforce the blockade.

So, your statement of international waters has been debunked. Over and over linking to actual internal laws. You should read more often then you would use terms to defend your point that actually, you know, weaken it.

Next.

175 Ericus58  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:21:42pm

re: #173 Christopher H

I will look at the previous threads here, I am new to LGF

Well, there ya go Pilgrim. You’re “new” here and come in with guns a-blazin’.

How much is Reuters paying you?

176 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:22:19pm
would

should be “would not use”…

177 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:23:52pm

re: #173 Christopher H

I will look at the previous threads here, I am new to LGF

While you’re at it, click on the tags under each post for more info. As an example the “Reuters” tag gets you this. Read a few of those and then see if you can still make the claims you did in your #151.

Reuters probably never saw the originals of the doctored photos, so I cant believe the bias aspect here goes as far up the hierarchy as is being implied
178 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:24:22pm

re: #173 Christopher H

Yeh, I know of the Danish Institute paper. The evidence cited seems fairly tenuous. Even the US acknowledges that the link cannot be validated (that is, to Al-Qaeda). I can imagine that it funds what Israel considers illicit groups like Hamas, but that is hardly what you are alleging here

I will look at the previous threads here, I am new to LGF

‘What Israel considers illicit groups like Hamas’?

Hamas is on the U.S. terror list, and openly maintains its intention to destroy Israel. They’ve gone a step or two past ‘illicit’.

179 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:25:23pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

‘What Israel considers illicit groups like Hamas’?

Hamas is on the U.S. terror list, and openly maintains its intention to destroy Israel. They’ve gone a step or two past ‘illicit’.

I think it means that he doesn’t consider them illicit…

180 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:26:58pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

Hamas is on the U.S. terror list, and openly maintains its intention to destroy Israel. They’ve gone a step or two past ‘illicit’.

I think Hamas is just misunderstood. They are a humanitarian organization….

/////1/////!1!

181 steve_davis  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:31:03pm

re: #29 CapeCoddah

Hey everyone.
Helen Thomas has announced her immediate retirement.

Not a moment too soon. It isn’t that I dislike Helen Thomas. Over the years she’s acted as a thorn in many administrations—both red and blue—but the comments she’s been condemned for show a mind that isn’t capable any longer of keeping the connected mouth in check.

182 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:32:26pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

‘What Israel considers illicit groups like Hamas’?

Hamas is on the U.S. terror list, and openly maintains its intention to destroy Israel. They’ve gone a step or two past ‘illicit’.

Lisa: “What’s superliminal?”
L.T. Smash: “I’ll show you.” (leans out window). “Hey YOU! Join the Navy!”

Yvan Eht Nioj!

183 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:39:19pm

re: #182 goddamnedfrank

Lisa: “What’s superliminal?”
L.T. Smash: “I’ll show you.” (leans out window). “Hey YOU! Join the Navy!”

Yvan Eht Nioj!

Great Simpsons reference.

184 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:44:35pm

re: #181 steve_davis

You give her too much credit. Her mind always had these things in it.

That should kept them hidden is much more dangerous than being a known bigot.

In other words, it is not the klansman in a sheet that scares you, it is the one that shakes hands with you in the store.

185 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:45:58pm

Jeesh, I wish I could type today.

186 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:55:29pm

re: #135 Joo-LiZ

It’s not my own page, I linked it because it paints the hypocrisy in stark terms.

I can pull out quality-of-life metrics and statistics if you prefer, Gaza’s infant mortality rate, life expectancy at time of birth, and several other metrics are well above the global average, and much higher than those of nearby muslim states.

Not to say the lives of Gazans are all that great. They have very little economy, are heavily oppressed, and overall aren’t in great shape.

OK.

187 Christopher H  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:57:49pm

re: #161 Obdicut

Cite the law you’re claiming makes it illegal, please.

International law doesn’t really work like that, one has to interpret each and every situation in light of existing norms, to see which principles apply. “Cite the law” is a highly misleading request, since that already presupposes a contextual interpretation of what is happening.

So, what usually gets cited is, for instance, the prohibition on collective punishment, the causing of humanitarian crisis as a form of warfare, the violation of individual human rights, the violation of the right of national determination, etc. But then, I very much expect you already knew the drill.

As for authorities, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called the blockade illegal only two days ago, and this opinion is shared by all the mainstream human rights organisations (as far as I know), for example, Amnesty International.

188 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:05:18pm

re: #187 Christopher H

As for authorities, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called the blockade illegal only two days ago, and this opinion is shared by all the mainstream human rights organisations (as far as I know), for example, Amnesty International.

But apparently not shared by … Reuters. Hardly a pro-Israel front group.

[Link: www.reuters.com…]

189 Buck  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:06:27pm

re: #187 Christopher H


As for authorities, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called the blockade illegal only two days ago, and this opinion is shared by all the mainstream human rights organisations (as far as I know), for example, Amnesty International.

The sight of Jews fight back, in the same way that any other country would is abhorrent to some.

Those SAME “mainstream human rights organisations” you read about exhibit a double standard when interpreting the law.

They FAIL to apply any measure of logic or international law to the terrorists in Hamas, whose every action constitutes war crimes and calls to genocide - a crime against humanity.

Hamas’ charter demands genocide and ethnic cleansing. Yet these groups are silent.

If someone was sending rockets on my house where my daughters were sleeping at night, I would do everything to stop it. Barack Obama

Under the Geneva Conventions, which are the statutory implementation of the customary laws of war, it is forbidden to deliberately attack civilians or bona-fide civilian structures, dwellings, and places used for civilian purposes, such as hospitals, religious structures, and schools. It therefore follows that the use of any form of weapon to deliberately attack civilians or deliberately attack unquestionably civilian targets unoccupied by military forces is a war crime, and in violation of the laws of war.

And these “mainstream human rights organisations” cannot find any time to protest, or stand as human shields to stop the rockets.

190 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:08:31pm

re: #189 Buck

No, Amnesty International has no trouble condemning Hamas.

[Link: www.google.com…]

191 Kefirah  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:10:38pm

re: #187 Christopher H

so, according to your definition, international law is relativistic, since the “norms” change and there’s no black.letter law?

color me surprised. and highly skeptical - maritime law is largely regarded as very textual and contextual and black.letter and a host of other adjectives, and that’s what would govern this particular situation. i’ve also edited a number of articles for international law journals that appeal to and reference black.letter international laws.

of course, i’m not a maritime law expert, nor am i an international law arbiter, but i am an attorney. and your statement is sending my “barometer of wrong” into overdrive.

192 Buck  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:12:32pm

re: #190 Obdicut

No, Amnesty International has no trouble condemning Hamas.

[Link: www.google.com…]

Sure but if you see 300 news releases condemning one side, and only a handful condemning the other side….. you can still see a double standard.

In 2008 alone (…) NGOs issued over 300 statements in condemnation of Israel’s policy regarding Hamas-controlled Gaza. This contrasts with a handful of statements condemning over 6,500 rockets fired on Israel from Gaza since disengagement in 2005.

193 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:17:30pm

re: #192 Buck

Sure but if you see 300 news releases condemning one side, and only a handful condemning the other side… you can still see a double standard.

But I don’t, from Amnesty. They’ve been condemning governments in the Middle East long before most of the people now doing so have. And they are still condemning places like Saudi Arabia, who are our allies.

194 drbuhd  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:59:42pm

Yeah, well, you don’t think the Israeli government/military is editing/censoring the videos they are releasing?

195 RanchHand  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 2:01:39pm

re: #190 Obdicut

No, Amnesty International has no trouble condemning Hamas.

[Link: www.google.com…]

Do you have any links to Amnesty condemning Hamas regarding their actions toward Israelis?

196 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 2:09:29pm

re: #195 RanchHand

Do you have any links to Amnesty condemning Hamas regarding their actions toward Israelis?

[Link: www.amnesty.org…]

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

You can find those with google, you know.

197 Bagua  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 2:21:41pm

re: #145 Christopher H

Without excusing the knife-wielding actions of those on board (out of the 500, seemingly a very distinct minority),

No one has alleged that all 500 were violent thugs, there were about 50 paid mercenary thugs who had gas masks and led the violence. They likely had some volunteers from the larger group. Judging by all the knives, clubs, slingshots, Iron pipes there were at least a hundred violent attackers among the “peace activists” you are defending.


its surely the case that the IDF is to blame for the violence for forcing the confrontation, if nothing else.


No, the thugs who ambushed the landing party are to blame. Period.

The IDF were on their boat, not the other way around (a very simple observation in danger of getting lost here). It was 4:30 in the morning, in pitch black, and the IDF’s absurd reaction created the conditions for the situation to get out of control.

Watch the videos of the thugs preparing their ambush, it was well lit. The situation did not “get out of control” the violence was pre-planned as is obvious to anyone who has viewed the videos posted here and doesn’t have their head up their ass.

On the eyewitness reports: they tend to give a fuller picture of the events, not just a “snapshot” like the IDF videos did (through I have no idea why you’d trust the IDF over civilian eyewitnesses, unless there was compelling contrary evidence).


Because we know the Islamic terrorists lie as an intentional tactic of warfare. Alternatively the IDF has proven a credible source.


It puts things in perspective to learn that the boarding from the helicopters occurred after the initial “buzzing” of the ship by Israeli military boats, shooting tear gas and rubber bullets on deck in an obvious attempt at intimidation.

Nonsense. Your “perspective” is obvious and they did not shoot rubber bullets.

Am not sure of the Al-Jazeera journalist you are refering to, but Jamal Elshayyal - the only journalist on board the Mavi Marmara at the time - confirmed the “Israel-shot-first” line.

Israelis shot paint balls at savages attacking them with knives and iron pipes. The permission to use firearms wasn’t given for an hour after they were attacked and had there commanders savagely beaten, and only then once the “activists” had shot two Israels and were continuing to shoot at them.

198 tradewind  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 8:05:18pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder
I sent ‘em my two cents, and I’m sure there were many thousands of others. Once in a while, it’s nice to see actual results.
But as horrid as she is, and as heartily as she deserved what she got, short of her having committed murder, I can’t make myself do a happy dance to celebrate a ninety- year-old’s firing in disgrace…. it’s sad. She is reaping the whirlwind from the hate-filled wind she has sown.
Rather than gloating and gleeful, I’m content in the knowledge that we won’t have to listen to her any more.

199 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 7, 2010 10:57:12pm

Gee, Chris H. sure vanished right away when I posted the link to the Reuters analysis, showing that Israel’s blockade is legal and they have the right to board ships in international waters.

Funny how that always seems to happen.


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