Questions Remain in Reuters Photo Cropping Incidents

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I just spoke with Dana Goldstein from The Daily Beast, who has been trying to get more information from Reuters about the photos; so far Reuters isn’t sharing anything.

And serious questions remain.

The photographs that came from the IHH in Turkey were never attributed to a particular person, for starters. Who took these photos? Shouldn’t there be more transparency, in a case so loaded with controversy?

There’s also the issue of the “chain of custody” — whose hands did these photos pass through? Who actually did the cropping? Did Reuters receive digital RAW files of the images, or were they already processed?

And it’s reasonable to ask if the editor was a Turkish stringer or Turkish Reuters employee who took an opportunity to do a little creative cropping, in order to give the propaganda effort a little nudge. It’s not like these kinds of things haven’t happened before, and feelings are running at a fever pitch against Israel in Turkey.

Reuters, however, has been very terse and unresponsive. The only statement they’ve released was a brief post at their blog a few days ago, and now they seem to be stonewalling further inquiries. But as I mentioned yesterday, since the photo cropping was exposed LGF has had well over 2,000 visits from the Reuters Canary Wharf offices in London.

Meanwhile, the US mainstream media seem to be completely ignoring it, with the exception of Fox News; there’s actually quite a bit more interest in European media at this point. So Reuters may be able to duck accountability for this one.

UPDATE at 6/9/10 3:57:27 pm:

One question has an answer; the New York Times Lede blog has identified the person who took the photos that were cropped by Reuters as Turkish journalist Adem Ozkose: Photographs of Battered Israeli Commandos Show New Side of Raid.

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650 comments

1 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:05:54pm

It did spread ripples internally though, so it has certainly had some impact already. This isn't as big as the Lebanon situation, both in magnitude and in the fact that while this was cropping, the Lebanon situation involved creative insertion of elements, false captions, and outright staging of photo events.

2 The Optimist  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:05:56pm

It all points that this cropping was intentional. It is a clear violation of journalistic ethics.

when will the UN have a special session to condemn it?

3 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:08:07pm

Good grief!
Can't retweet, Twitter is over capacity?
How does that happen?

4 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:09:39pm

re: #3 reine.de.tout

Good grief!
Can't retweet, Twitter is over capacity?
How does that happen?

Twitter's been having a lot of problems for the past few days.

5 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:10:16pm

re: #4 Charles

Twitter's been having a lot of problems for the past few days.

Ah. Well, it got done, just now.

6 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:10:25pm

Also I think this kind of cropping more common than we think, as well as the outright suppression of photos. Israel did a smart - if somewhat questionable - move in seizing and copying the pictures taken by journalists and activists.

What is disappointing here is that Reuters
- Appears to have violated their own guidelines in cropping the photos in a way that removed important elements of them.
- Definitely violated their own guidelines by not updating the original photo postings to explain "error" and point to the new photos.
- Appears to have zero accountability to their customers, owners, the public, and their own internal guidelines.

7 Jack Burton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:10:37pm

"Maybe if we ignore them they will go away." - Reuters

8 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:11:03pm

re: #4 Charles

charles - wondering if there is any hint of an l.g.f. "app" in the works? would love to be able to just open footballs up on my phone with an interface as streamlined as the web version.

9 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:11:57pm

re: #8 Kefirah

I use an RSS reader, which works fine.

Do you mean just for frontpage viewing or for commenting as well?

10 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:13:15pm

re: #9 MagnaniomousCoward

for both - for everything. i'd love to be able to downding a troll while shopping for kiddush wine. it just feels so right.

11 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:13:42pm

Reuters is probably praying for a celebrity to cheat on their spouse or die so they can try and hide behind that

12 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:14:46pm

A spike today in 3... 2...

Reuters
Today: 48
Yesterday: 1,948

13 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:15:10pm

re: #10 Kefirah

Charles shouldn't have to make a whole new app for that. A good javascript-enabled mobile browser can do that for you. Have you tried Opera? They have a desktop browser, but also supply mobile web browsers that do a fantastic job of fitting content into small screens.

14 Buck  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:15:11pm

re: #8 Kefirah

charles - wondering if there is any hint of an l.g.f. "app" in the works? would love to be able to just open footballs up on my phone with an interface as streamlined as the web version.

In the meanwhile, I use the mobile version of Google Reader and the RSS feed.

Works really well.

15 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:15:14pm

I guess that's the issue, isn't it: You don't remove important stuff.

If you are cropping a photo of a man and woman and you remove a dumpster that was in the background, or a stranger walking by, or a car that drove by, who cares. If you crop the photo to remove his wife, who was with the two of them, you could change the implication of the photo.

(I have no idea how you could remove the photo-bombing squirrel, or why you would want to.)

16 sagehen  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:15:55pm

Every time you mention Canary Wharf, I get an image of Torchwood's desperate battle against the Cyberman, Ianto pulling the half-converted Lisa from the rubble, and Reuters looking the other way and not even mentioning that Earth is apparently in danger from recurring alien invasions.

But maybe that's just me.

17 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:16:00pm

re: #13 MagnaniomousCoward

re: #14 Buck

thankee kindly, sirs. i'm all over it.

18 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:16:50pm

re: #13 MagnaniomousCoward

By the way, everybody should check out the Opera desktop version as well. Try the narrow page function and see how it looks.

Full disclosure: I have several friends who work for Opera Software.

19 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:17:07pm

re: #16 sagehen

Every time you mention Canary Wharf, I get an image of Torchwood's desperate battle against the Cyberman, Ianto pulling the half-converted Lisa from the rubble, and Reuters looking the other way and not even mentioning that Earth is apparently in danger from recurring alien invasions.

But maybe that's just me.

Oh sure, ignore the real threat of the Daleks

20 Buck  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:17:08pm

#0 Charles

with the exception of Fox News

Ya, FOXNEWS!

We suck less!

(Sorry, I could not help myself)

21 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:18:04pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh sure, ignore the real threat of the Daleks

Homicidal shopvacs do not scare me.

The Weeping Angels scare me, and Reuters would have you believe they are innocent!

22 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:19:31pm

Sadly, I think Reuters will get away with it, and it has a lot to do with just how bad the loonies on the Right, those who've perpetuated every conspiracy theory and outright lie they can about Obama, have poisoned the well. Where once the blogosphere was considered the vanguard of the New Press, that guys in pajamas were taking on and winning against the MSM, and fauxtography was a major news item, now it's become a passing joke, easy to marginalize because all you have to do is find one post or thread about a popular "right wing lie" and paint anything that comes out of the site as similarly motivated. It's like how nobody in the press gave much play to the radio communications tape from the Mavi Marmara , but quickly jumped on the admission that the tape had been "doctored."

23 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:19:54pm

re: #20 Buck

For all the negative stuff you can say about Fox News, and especially some of FNC's opinionists, I actually find local Fox affiliates and the Fox News website to be pretty good in their news coverage.

24 ginger10  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:21:01pm

I consider this controversy a huge issue as it goes directly to the integrity of Reuters as a news gathering and reporting agency. I have twice emailed Reuters asking for clarification on the cropped photo controversy and there's been no response other than an auto-acknowledgment. I realize I'm just some nobody, but I've subscribed to Reuters daily bulletins for years and it troubles me greatly that a wire service isn't to be trusted.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:21:25pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Homicidal shopvacs do not scare me.

The Weeping Angels scare me, and Reuters would have you believe they are innocent!

Weeping Angels: The only murdering aliens who also raise your property value.

26 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:21:44pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Homicidal shopvacs do not scare me.

The Weeping Angels scare me, and Reuters would have you believe they are innocent!

2 words, Vashta Nerada

27 Christopher H  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:22:56pm

The media isn't interested because its a mark against their professionalism, because its blogs and internet people showing them up. Thats the story imho. The idea that the mainstream media has a kind of systemic anti-Israel bias just isn't credible, and at any rate would be nigh impossible to prove.

Theres now lots on the IDF distorting news, manipulating photos and falsifying audio clips, all obviously being ignored on this site. And many commentators have noted the failure of the MSM to give proper equal time to the activist eyewitness testimonies on what happened on the flotilla (even if this was just the news-cycle rolling on to other things in those few days when the activists were forcibly silenced by being imprisoned in Israeli jails). I know LGF is a pro-Israel site but please, show some kind of perspective here

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:24:46pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2 words, Vashta Nerada

Beat me to it.

However, in order of scariness:

1. Jamie
2. Vashta Nerada
3. Weeping Angels
4. The clockwork dudes from Girl in the Fireplace

(Daleks are somewhere down below the rhinoceros dudes, whose name I can't remember.)

29 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:25:59pm

Groceries, before my boys are officially empty children.

30 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:26:27pm

re: #27 Christopher H

Your very post assumes that it's the IDF on one side and the activists and the journalists on the other. Somebody will be along to address your links about the IDF, but the point is that the media shouldn't take sides, and neither have some kind of false neutrality, but always report the truth. Why are these Reuters "mistakes" always dis-favorable to Israel? Are they all dis-favorable to Israel?

31 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:26:46pm

re: #27 Christopher H

Your example of a manipulated photo is not a manipulated photo, but an inaccurate description.

Can you explain why you inaccurately described it as a manipulated photo?

32 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:28:04pm

re: #31 Obdicut

Your example of a manipulated photo is not a manipulated photo, but an inaccurate description.

Can you explain why you inaccurately described it as a manipulated photo?

Because that's the claim made by the link and that's what he's going with. Talking points need no mental power to support or deny, just enough brain cells to regurgitate on command.

33 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:28:54pm

re: #27 Christopher H

Oh, the poor peace activists. Unable to get get their propaganda out. I shall die of chagrin!

34 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:29:23pm

re: #27 Christopher H

Theres now lots on the IDF distorting news, manipulating photos and falsifying audio clips, all obviously being ignored on this site. And many commentators have noted the failure of the MSM to give proper equal time to the activist eyewitness testimonies on what happened on the flotilla (even if this was just the news-cycle rolling on to other things in those few days when the activists were forcibly silenced by being imprisoned in Israeli jails). I know LGF is a pro-Israel site but please, show some kind of perspective here

You need to get hooked on phonics. The IDF didn't falsify audio...read your own link. They condensed said audio recording for clarity and the "go back to Auschwitz" slur was also on the original.

Nice perspective.

35 abaleh  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:30:30pm

re: #18 MagnaniomousCoward

By the way, everybody should check out the Opera desktop version as well. Try the narrow page function and see how it looks.

Full disclosure: I have several friends who work for Opera Software.

I've been using opera for years. It's the best browser out there.
But what's the narrow page function?

36 Christopher H  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:32:13pm

re: #31 Obdicut

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

37 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:32:58pm

re: #35 abaleh

View > Small screen
gives you mobile-like narrow view

View > Fit to Width
is less drastic, by making things fit while you resize the page

[Link: help.opera.com...]

38 abaleh  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:34:12pm

re: #37 MagnaniomousCoward

View > Small screen
gives you mobile-like narrow view

View > Fit to Width
is less drastic, by making things fit while you resize the page

[Link: help.opera.com...]

thanks

39 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:34:15pm

re: #36 Christopher H

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

That's quite a reach.

Frankly, it's a lot more plausible that this was a mistake than the photo cropping, but in either case, without more information it's impossible to say for sure.

Calling it "photo manipulation" is simply false.

40 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:34:51pm

re: #27 Christopher H

The full unedited audio is posted here in Pages. I guess you want to deny that.

41 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:34:56pm

re: #36 Christopher H

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

Bullshit. When I first saw the picture in question, it was clearly identified has having been taken well before the raid. It was in connection with the reports on the pro-jihad, pro-"martyrdom" rhetoric employed on the boat before and after it sailed from Cyprus.

42 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:36:00pm

re: #28 EmmmieG

Beat me to it.

However, in order of scariness:

1. Jamie
2. Vashta Nerada
3. Weeping Angels
4. The clockwork dudes from Girl in the Fireplace

(Daleks are somewhere down below the rhinoceros dudes, whose name I can't remember.)

The Rhino dudes were cool, but for sheer creepiness, the Master's army of floating heads from the end of time were right up there.

I miss the latest Master.

43 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:36:47pm

re: #36 Christopher H

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

Uh, it was "taken before the ship even left harbour" ... and that's supposed to make us forget that it shows one of the "peace activists" with a BIG HONKING DAGGER in a threatening pose?

Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

44 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:37:30pm

re: #34 Aceofwhat?

Yes, I listened to the whole recording. Trying to claim that the IDF was doing there was "falsifying audio" is pretty ridiculous when the media cut down politicians' speeches and interviews into shorter soundbytes every day. It's only a bad thing if it *changes the meaning* of the audio - and with such terrible radio discipline shown by the flotilla, we'll probably never know which boat transmitted the Auschwitz comment, unless one of them brags about it.

45 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:38:17pm

re: #36 Christopher H

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

Oh wow. No, it wasn't manipulation of the photo. It was an inaccurate description of the photo.

Manipulation is when you, you know, manipulate something. Like, for example, cropping a knife out of the picture.

You have a perfectly good point, but you can't stop yourself from overreaching. I don't know why. It does your argument far more harm than good, allowing you to be dismissed as dishonest immediately.

46 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:38:31pm

re: #43 Charles

Aha, so that was the guy who supplied the huge dagger in the post-raid photo released by the IDF.

47 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:39:00pm

re: #27 Christopher H

Theres now lots on the IDF distorting news, manipulating photos and falsifying audio clips, all obviously being ignored on this site.

And "distorting news"? I'm sure there's still more to follow on the origins of the thugs who attacked the Israelis, but whether their identification as "terrorists" was premature or not is wholly unrelated to the facts about what took place on the water.

There you go. Free perspective. I'm here all week. Try the baby sheep, and don't forget to tip your server.

48 Christopher H  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:40:06pm

re: #34 Aceofwhat?

Again... yes, this is what the IDF says happened. This is the official story. But it is not automatically the case that what the IDF says is always going to be the complete truth. I'm not sure why the distinction is so hard to understand

What is being alleged is that the audio of the Auschwitz comment is fake, that it was never said and was edited in afterwards. The "full" video appeared only after the clip initially released, which doesn't include the Auschwitz comment. I would have thought the IDF would have been keen to showcase this remark as soon as they found it, rather than publish it afterwards while the story died down. That smells fishy

49 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:40:09pm

re: #44 MagnaniomousCoward

Yes, I listened to the whole recording. Trying to claim that the IDF was doing there was "falsifying audio" is pretty ridiculous when the media cut down politicians' speeches and interviews into shorter soundbytes every day. It's only a bad thing if it *changes the meaning* of the audio - and with such terrible radio discipline shown by the flotilla, we'll probably never know which boat transmitted the Auschwitz comment, unless one of them brags about it.

agree completely

50 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:40:26pm

So, bias against Israel aside, I have to wonder if there is a third party involved, directing Reuters to submit certain pictures "as is" with news stories released under the Reuters brand.

51 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:41:00pm

re: #47 Aceofwhat?

And "distorting news"? I'm sure there's still more to follow on the origins of the thugs who attacked the Israelis, but whether their identification as "terrorists" was premature or not is wholly unrelated to the facts about what took place on the water.

There you go. Free perspective. I'm here all week. Try the baby sheep, and don't forget to tip your server.

You know when half the guys on board are named on Mohammed based name derivatives, you're gonna run into some name based confusion.

52 sagehen  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:41:34pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Rhino dudes were cool, but for sheer creepiness, the Master's army of floating heads from the end of time were right up there.

I miss the latest Master.

The Toclafane?

They would have been scary, except that we're entitled to disregard events of The Year That Didn't Happen.

53 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:42:49pm

re: #48 Christopher H

What is your evidence that that audio was faked?

I'm perfectly willing to look at any evidence whatsoever. I am not really willing to simply look at supposition on your part.

54 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:42:52pm

re: #48 Christopher H

Do you have ADD or someting? I listened to the whole audio, and the Auschwitz comment is on it, only it's after a lot of silence and incomprehensible gibberish and unrelated transmissions. Of course, you could argue that the whole thing was fake, but you'll have to supply a third-party recording to show that - or prove that the voice didn't belong to anyone on board.

55 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:43:15pm

re: #48 Christopher H

Again... yes, this is what the IDF says happened. This is the official story. But it is not automatically the case that what the IDF says is always going to be the complete truth. I'm not sure why the distinction is so hard to understand

What is being alleged is that the audio of the Auschwitz comment is fake, that it was never said and was edited in afterwards. The "full" video appeared only after the clip initially released, which doesn't include the Auschwitz comment. I would have thought the IDF would have been keen to showcase this remark as soon as they found it, rather than publish it afterwards while the story died down. That smells fishy

Idiot. Reports of the Auschwitz comment first appeared within 12 hours of the events on the Mavi Marmara.

Given that it took longer than that for people to become aware of what Helen Thomas said (which amounted to the same thing), even though she said it on video, your argument falls to peaces.

56 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:44:06pm

re: #48 Christopher H

Again... yes, this is what the IDF says happened. This is the official story. But it is not automatically the case that what the IDF says is always going to be the complete truth. I'm not sure why the distinction is so hard to understand

What is being alleged is that the audio of the Auschwitz comment is fake, that it was never said and was edited in afterwards. The "full" video appeared only after the clip initially released, which doesn't include the Auschwitz comment. I would have thought the IDF would have been keen to showcase this remark as soon as they found it, rather than publish it afterwards while the story died down. That smells fishy

The "full" tape does include the comment, and the NYT blog to which you linked agrees. Are you having so much trouble with this little concept? Are you so driven to make this Israel's fault that you'll say the opposite of the source that you're linking to?

The full tape is available here at LGF, if you want to listen...

57 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:44:07pm

re: #48 Christopher H

Again... yes, this is what the IDF says happened. This is the official story. But it is not automatically the case that what the IDF says is always going to be the complete truth. I'm not sure why the distinction is so hard to understand

What is being alleged is that the audio of the Auschwitz comment is fake, that it was never said and was edited in afterwards. The "full" video appeared only after the clip initially released, which doesn't include the Auschwitz comment. I would have thought the IDF would have been keen to showcase this remark as soon as they found it, rather than publish it afterwards while the story died down. That smells fishy

We discussed the first audio recording here, and for the record, I agree that the IDF made a mistake by releasing the edited version, and I said so at the time.

However, they've now released the full continuous recording and the issue is over. "Go back to Auschwitz" was said by someone in the flotilla, but they had zero radio discipline (unsurprisingly) so it's impossible to know who it was. Huwaida Arraf is NOT a credible source; she is an open activist for Palestinian causes and has been caught lying and distorting facts many times.

I'll bet you haven't even listened to the full recording. Have you?

58 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:44:12pm

re: #36 Christopher H

The picture was taken before the ship even left harbour, and it was claimed that the picture was taken after the raid. That is a "manipulation" of the photo for ones own purposes, even if the photo itself wasn't physically doctored

Uh, no my son, this is photo manipulation:

Image: ?action=view&current=20060805BeirutPhotoshop.jpg

59 Christopher H  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:44:17pm

re: #39 Charles

Its a semantic distinction, call it "manipulating the description" rather than the photo, whatever

60 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:44:39pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know when half the guys on board are named on Mohammed based name derivatives, you're gonna run into some name based confusion.

heh...like trying to track down "Jim Bob" on the lam in Georgia...

61 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:45:04pm

re: #58 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Crap, let me try that again:

[Link: img.photobucket.com...]

62 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:45:34pm

re: #60 Aceofwhat?

heh...like trying to track down "Jim Bob" on the lam in Georgia...

/I think I saw him in the BBQ shack...

63 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:46:09pm

re: #59 Christopher H

not when it doesn't alter the facts.

64 abaleh  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:46:13pm

re: #27 Christopher H

The media isn't interested because its a mark against their professionalism, because its blogs and internet people showing them up. Thats the story imho. The idea that the mainstream media has a kind of systemic anti-Israel bias just isn't credible, and at any rate would be nigh impossible to prove.

Theres now lots on the IDF distorting news, manipulating photos and falsifying audio clips, all obviously being ignored on this site. And many commentators have noted the failure of the MSM to give proper equal time to the activist eyewitness testimonies on what happened on the flotilla (even if this was just the news-cycle rolling on to other things in those few days when the activists were forcibly silenced by being imprisoned in Israeli jails). I know LGF is a pro-Israel site but please, show some kind of perspective here

Is there any proof that the caption was provided by the IDF?
From what I can see the problem here is with Haaretz and its editors.

65 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:46:24pm

re: #62 brookly red

/I think I saw him in the BBQ shack...

No, that was the other jim bob/

66 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:46:34pm

re: #59 Christopher H

Its a semantic distinction, call it "manipulating the description" rather than the photo, whatever

Oh, bullshit. It's clear as day that the reason it's being described as "photo manipulation" is to draw a false equivalence to the cropping incident -- which really IS photo manipulation.

Don't play dumb. I see what you're doing.

67 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:46:48pm

re: #59 Christopher H

Its a semantic distinction, call it "manipulating the description" rather than the photo, whatever

Or you could call it an 'inaccurate description', like a person writing normal English who's not desperately trying to get the word 'manipulation' in there somehow.

It had a somewhat inaccurate description.

Can you explain why the distinction matters in the descriptions, given that what it shows is one of the 'activists' with a weapon?

68 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:47:03pm

re: #59 Christopher H
Look, we called out Reuters for deceptive or incorrect captions too, but we didn't call it "photo manipulation" we called it what it was. And then combined it with calling out actual photo manipulation and staging of photos.

69 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:47:04pm

re: #48 Christopher H

You are a liar. Why are you doing that?

Here's the full unedited audio you hear the Auschwitz comment at 2:05, This full audio was posted here in pages four days ago.

So please explain why you find it necessary to lie about this?

70 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:47:19pm

Too bad our "Christopher H." isn't actually Chris Hitchens, who in truth knows a thing or two about semantics.

71 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:47:41pm

Full unedited audio

72 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:47:41pm

re: #27 Christopher H

You reference that terrorist tool Max Blumenthal? He is the media equivalent of the Neutori Karta. That is what you offer as balance? Fool.

73 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:48:12pm

re: #67 Obdicut

Can you explain why the distinction matters in the descriptions, given that what it shows is one of the 'activists' with a weapon?

Right. Isn't it MORE damning now that it's fixed, showing the activists armed with deadly weapons from the beginning?

74 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:49:50pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

Right. Isn't it MORE damning now that it's fixed, showing the activists armed with deadly weapons from the beginning?

I thought he just had that to open boxes of peanut brittle to be offloaded in Gaza.

/

75 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:51:21pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought he just had that to open boxes of peanut brittle to be offloaded in Gaza.

/

/peanut brittle? gee I wonder who donated that?

76 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:51:55pm

re: #59 Christopher H

Its a semantic distinction, call it "manipulating the description" rather than the photo, whatever

Whatever? For someone who's trying to argue that accuracy is being sacrificed here - that's a mighty fine way to show your care for being accurate and want to get the facts out rather than pushing an ongoing stream of propaganda.

What we do know is that Reuters did manipulate the photo by cropping it in violation of their own internal rules and code of principles. They further complicated matters by again violating their internal rules and code of principles by not informing the public that they've released the uncropped images without notice of said changes.

It is possible that the caption is inaccurate, but that's not the same thing as a clear manipulation of the photo. It's not even in the same ballpark. It's not even the same sport. Trying to draw some kind of equivalency is itself a mark of not seeking to get the truth out about the incident but rather trying to obfuscate the facts.

As Charles correctly points out - the chain of custody from the time they got their hands on the photos until publication stinks. There's no accountability and Reuters should and must be held accountable on their actions here.

77 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:52:35pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought he just had that to open boxes of peanut brittle to be offloaded in Gaza.

/

Bet you a trappist ale that Hamas would have turned away peanut brittle, too..."aid" my ass...

78 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:52:47pm

re: #48 Christopher H

Again... yes, this is what the IDF says happened. This is the official story. But it is not automatically the case that what the IDF says is always going to be the complete truth. I'm not sure why the distinction is so hard to understand

What is being alleged is that the audio of the Auschwitz comment is fake, that it was never said and was edited in afterwards. The "full" video appeared only after the clip initially released, which doesn't include the Auschwitz comment. I would have thought the IDF would have been keen to showcase this remark as soon as they found it, rather than publish it afterwards while the story died down. That smells fishy

Ive been reading your comments for the past few days, and im amazed how biased can one person be. I can understand that you refuse to believe to everything that comes out from the IDF spokesmen, but you so easily believe to some shit said by people with clear anti-Israel agenda.

Every time someone makes a comment about the islamic propaganda (that happends all around the world, probably in your street aswell), you automatically reject it as unreliable, but when some unknown site claims that a recording released by the IDF is fake, you immediatly take the bait.
There are both audio and video including the "Aushwitz" response, one from the ship radio, and one from a cameraman that documented the whole thing. They both match, so stop your anti-israel propaganda. That all you have been doing for the past couple of days.

You are completely biased.

79 abaleh  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:52:54pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought he just had that to open boxes of peanut brittle to be offloaded in Gaza.

/

No, it's an understandable cultural thing, like female circumcision and stoning gays. You're looking at this through western eyes instead of trying to understand Yemeni culture.

/

80 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:53:38pm

Charles:

Last thread you were asking about AJ videos, here's one that KT posted but the trans is French, not English

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

81 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:53:51pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

Right. Isn't it MORE damning now that it's fixed, showing the activists armed with deadly weapons from the beginning?

But. But But.......

“The guy in the picture is Yemeni lawmaker Mohammad al-Hazmi, showing his ceremonial dagger (known in Yemen as Jambiya), which is carried by every single man in Yemen and is an essential part of the traditional Yemeni dress.


//It was a ceremonial dagger, so it was just for show don't you know.

82 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:54:29pm

Christopher H

Karma: -157
Registered since: Jun 7, 2010 at 10:47 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 14
No. of links posted: 0

C'mon, Lizards! We can make it go lower!

83 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:55:09pm

re: #79 abaleh

re: #81 Bubblehead II

Heh...and they were just attempting to perform a ritual killing of Israelis...i suppose we should be more respectful of their culture.

84 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:55:31pm

re: #81 Bubblehead II

But. But But...

“The guy in the picture is Yemeni lawmaker Mohammad al-Hazmi, showing his ceremonial dagger (known in Yemen as Jambiya), which is carried by every single man in Yemen and is an essential part of the traditional Yemeni dress.

//It was a ceremonial dagger, so it was just for show don't you know.

/was the picture taken at the ceremonial taking of hostages festival?

85 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:55:38pm

re: #27 Christopher H

re: #30 MagnaniomousCoward

Your very post assumes that it's the IDF on one side and the activists and the journalists on the other. Somebody will be along to address your links about the IDF, but the point is that the media shouldn't take sides, and neither have some kind of false neutrality, but always report the truth. Why are these Reuters "mistakes" always dis-favorable to Israel? Are they all dis-favorable to Israel?

HELLO Christopher H, ANY RESPONSE TO THIS POINT?

Even as we discuss the IDF's truthfulness, isn't the fact that you're trying to liken the bias of one of the belligerents with that of Reuters/"the mainstream media" itself an admission that Reuters/"the mainstream media" has an anti-Israeli bias, thus killing your argument before it's even begun?

You being shown wrong about your examples is only a bonus after that.

An actual argument would have been if you could show the media manipulating to the same degree in favor of Israel. Can you do that?

86 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:57:34pm

re: #85 MagnaniomousCoward

re: #30 MagnaniomousCoward

HELLO Christopher H, ANY RESPONSE TO THIS POINT?

Even as we discuss the IDF's truthfulness, isn't the fact that you're trying to liken the bias of one of the belligerents with that of Reuters/"the mainstream media" itself an admission that Reuters/"the mainstream media" has an anti-Israeli bias, thus killing your argument before it's even begun?

You being shown wrong about your examples is only a bonus after that.

An actual argument would have been if you could show the media manipulating to the same degree in favor of Israel. Can you do that?

Good point... well so much for the whole Jews controlling the media thing.

87 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:57:52pm

re: #79 abaleh

No, it's an understandable cultural thing, like female circumcision and stoning gays. You're looking at this through western eyes instead of trying to understand Yemeni culture.

/

To take that argument seriously for a second:

Sikh's also have a religious duty to wear a dagger, a Kirpan.

They deal with this, in the west, by wearing a very tiny one a few inches long, usually made of wood. Others who prefer to wear a more traditional one modify their behavior so as not to cause trouble, because they understand that this particular religious observance can worry others.

What they don't do: Carry big honking daggers while claiming to be peace activists while running a blockade.

88 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:59:17pm

Personally I think that the liar is just trying for a sweep of bottom comments.

89 zora  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:59:25pm

re: #72 Bagua

You reference that terrorist tool Max Blumenthal? He is the media equivalent of the Neutori Karta. That is what you offer as balance? Fool.

i had to look that one up. "jews united against zionism". wtf is wrong with these people.

90 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 12:59:41pm

re: #87 Obdicut

What they don't do: Carry big honking daggers while claiming to be peace activists while running a blockade.

And brandishing it for the cameras to boot.

91 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:01:41pm

re: #88 Thanos

Personally I think that the liar is just trying for a sweep of bottom comments.

You mean he's maybe trying to goad us into saying something racist or death threats or something? Well, he's getting his wet tissue paper arguments torn to shreds with logic instead.

92 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:04:37pm

re: #86 brookly red

Well, one could try to re-conciliate it by saying that they're "self-hating Jews", but by that point one is probably so used to Doublethink, that the contradiction doesn't even register as conscious cognitive dissonance.

93 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:04:52pm

re: #81 Bubblehead II

But. But But...

“The guy in the picture is Yemeni lawmaker Mohammad al-Hazmi, showing his ceremonial dagger (known in Yemen as Jambiya), which is carried by every single man in Yemen and is an essential part of the traditional Yemeni dress.

//It was a ceremonial dagger, so it was just for show don't you know.

I often carry this knife, which has a four-inch blade. In my culture, no gentleman goes without one. And let me hasten to assure you that there is nothing ceremonial about it!

94 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:05:49pm

re: #92 MagnaniomousCoward

conscious cognitive dissonance...

say THAT 3 times fast...

95 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:06:22pm

re: #91 MagnaniomousCoward

You mean he's maybe trying to goad us into saying something racist or death threats or something? Well, he's getting his wet tissue paper arguments torn to shreds with logic instead.

Well I did call him a liar, but that's because he actually lied about the Auschwitz comment

96 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

/Foul, unnecessary display of hardware, 5 yards, repeat first down.

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:09:08pm

Was in Dulles Airport once, sitting in a Subway. Place was packed. Sikh man looking for table... I invited him to sit with me.

Nice guy. Wasn't carrying his Kirpan. I didn't ask...

98 Jack Burton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:09:55pm

re: #89 zora

i had to look that one up. "jews united against zionism". wtf is wrong with these people.

"Elder Garth of the Synagogue of the Anti-Semite."
"I don't believe I've heard of the Anti-Semitic sect of Judaism."
"We're new."

99 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:10:29pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

I often carry this knife, which has a four-inch blade. In my culture, no gentleman goes without one. And let me hasten to assure you that there is nothing ceremonial about it!

I prefer mine. Though my Dad had a shit fit when my Mother bought it for me on my 18th birthday. He has definite ideas about what a proper knife is. :-)

100 subsailor68  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:11:17pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

I often carry this knife, which has a four-inch blade. In my culture, no gentleman goes without one. And let me hasten to assure you that there is nothing ceremonial about it!

Hi Cato! Very nice. Since I spend a bit of time in west Texas and the Big Bend area, I usually carry this one:

Becker Companion

I've been very happy with it.

101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:13:15pm

re: #100 subsailor68

Hi Cato! Very nice. Since I spend a bit of time in west Texas and the Big Bend area, I usually carry this one:

Becker Companion

I've been very happy with it.

That's not a knife...

102 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:14:00pm

re: #99 Bubblehead II

I prefer mine. Though my Dad had a shit fit when my Mother bought it for me on my 18th birthday. He has definite ideas about what a proper knife is. :-)

heh. Poor me.
All I have is this cute little Swiss Army pocketknife.

But it has come in handy more times than I can count.

103 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:14:32pm

Hi everyone,

im new to the site, ive been reading the threads for a while, and now, after all the shit going on with this flotilla, i decided its a good time to join.

im gonna try to be civilized, but im sorry in advance if im going crazy from time to time, your all welcome to shut me up if needed.

thanks.

104 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:15:52pm

re: #103 KDS1

Hi everyone,

im new to the site, ive been reading the threads for a while, and now, after all the shit going on with this flotilla, i decided its a good time to join.

im gonna try to be civilized, but im sorry in advance if im going crazy from time to time, your all welcome to shut me up if needed.

thanks.

any relation to KRS1 ?

105 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:15:54pm

re: #102 reine.de.tout

Got to keep those nails sharp. Never know when you might have to claw a troll to pieces.

106 Soap_Man  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:15:59pm

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's not a knife...

Ah, I see you've played "knifey-spoony" before!

107 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:16:08pm

jeez ... last night Charles does not one but TWO Celtics/Lakers threads and I was busy working AT the game and missed them? I'm still glad to be in Boston at the games, but sorry to not be able to share quality time with you guys on those very cool threads!

Great job by LA last night, but the Celtics will show up tomorrow!

108 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:16:29pm

re: #104 brookly red

any relation to KRS1 ?

not that i know of

109 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:17:22pm

re: #99 Bubblehead II

I prefer mine. Though my Dad had a shit fit when my Mother bought it for me on my 18th birthday. He has definite ideas about what a proper knife is. :-)

Gerber Mark II, eh? I have one of those, too - bought in the mid-seventies, right after they came out. Lots o' stories about that knife.

110 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:17:22pm

re: #103 KDS1

Hi everyone,

im new to the site, ive been reading the threads for a while, and now, after all the shit going on with this flotilla, i decided its a good time to join.

im gonna try to be civilized, but im sorry in advance if im going crazy from time to time, your all welcome to shut me up if needed.

thanks.

Just don't say anything that would reflect badly on our host, or you won't be with us long.

Welcome!

111 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:17:26pm

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sadly, I think Reuters will get away with it, and it has a lot to do with just how bad the loonies on the Right, those who've perpetuated every conspiracy theory and outright lie they can about Obama, have poisoned the well. Where once the blogosphere was considered the vanguard of the New Press, that guys in pajamas were taking on and winning against the MSM, and fauxtography was a major news item, now it's become a passing joke, easy to marginalize because all you have to do is find one post or thread about a popular "right wing lie" and paint anything that comes out of the site as similarly motivated. It's like how nobody in the press gave much play to the radio communications tape from the Mavi Marmara , but quickly jumped on the admission that the tape had been "doctored."


Yup, That's the way I see it too.

112 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:17:51pm

re: #107 _RememberTonyC

The Celtics just looked tired last night. They never seemed to find a rhythm, though it was nice seeing Garnet show improvement.

113 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:18:28pm

Why limit yourself to a knife when you can have a wrench too?

114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:18:29pm

re: #106 Soap_Man

Ah, I see you've played "knifey-spoony" before!

I've spooned...

115 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:19:13pm

re: #72 Bagua

You reference that terrorist tool Max Blumenthal? He is the media equivalent of the Neutori Karta. That is what you offer as balance? Fool.

Your characterization of him might be a little harsh, but I was starting to think Chris is Max. He certainly likes to link to him a lot.

116 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:19:15pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Yup, That's the way I see it too.

it sucks but it is difficult for the media to knock a vendor that they depend on...

117 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:20:29pm

re: #103 KDS1

Welcome to the Jungle.

Survival of the fittest is the first rule around these parts.

118 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:20:30pm

re: #112 Obdicut

The Celtics just looked tired last night. They never seemed to find a rhythm, though it was nice seeing Garnet show improvement.

ray allen definitely looked tired ... but LA deserves all the credit .... especially derek fisher.

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:20:55pm

re: #107 _RememberTonyC

I'm just sayin'...

120 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:21:00pm

Another frustrating this is why hasn't Israel released footage and pictures of the hostage taking. There are tons of cameras visible in the stairwell. Israel said they confiscated cameras. Did they miss it? Do they have tape of the hostage taking but aren't releasing it?

121 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:22:05pm

re: #109 Cato the Elder

Gerber MK 1. Balances right at the junction of the blade and cross guard.

122 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:22:12pm

re: #118 _RememberTonyC

ray allen definitely looked tired ... but LA deserves all the credit ... especially derek fisher.

Allen went 0-13 for 3 pointers.. If he would have just made 3 of them the Celts would have won.

123 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:22:21pm

re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm just sayin'...

did shaq design that shirt?

124 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:23:33pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Another frustrating this is why hasn't Israel released footage and pictures of the hostage taking. There are tons of cameras visible in the stairwell. Israel said they confiscated cameras. Did they miss it? Do they have tape of the hostage taking but aren't releasing it?

they are probably reviewing it veeeery careful like...

if you know what I mean.

125 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:23:33pm

re: #118 _RememberTonyC

ray allen definitely looked tired ... but LA deserves all the credit ... especially derek fisher.

I didn't get to watch the whole game, just the first twenty minutes. My dad (huge Celtics fan) is now in a deep funk.

126 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:24:27pm

re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm just sayin'...

/wasn't that the name of the Indian tribe on F Troop???

127 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:24:30pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Gerber MK 1. Balances right at the junction of the blade and cross guard.

Ah, I forgot. The Mark II is the longer version. I have the same one as you, with the original leather sheath.

128 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:26:00pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

Just don't say anything that would reflect badly on our host, or you won't be with us long.

Welcome!

Ill keep that in mind.

129 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:26:33pm

re: #95 Thanos

Well I did call him a liar, but that's because he actually lied about the Auschwitz comment

We do not know for a fact that he lied - he might have just failed to listen to the video and just relied on word-of-mouth instead; the result was the same though, so it's no excuse for him.

130 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #89 zora

i had to look that one up. "jews united against zionism". wtf is wrong with these people.

They think if they join the pack in hating on Israel, the "hip, in people" will love them.

131 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:27:36pm

re: #128 KDS1

sooo... what do you put on your pizza?

there is a reason I ask, trust me...

132 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:27:41pm

re: #125 Obdicut

I didn't get to watch the whole game, just the first twenty minutes. My dad (huge Celtics fan) is now in a deep funk.

Boston has pulled off bigger feats in the past .... tell him to keep the faith.

133 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:28:34pm

re: #129 MagnaniomousCoward

We do not know for a fact that he lied - he might have just failed to listen to the video and just relied on word-of-mouth instead; the result was the same though, so it's no excuse for him.

He is not lying, hes brain-washed. Theres a big difference, im not sure which one is worst.

134 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:31:21pm

re: #131 brookly red

sooo... what do you put on your pizza?

there is a reason I ask, trust me...

everything that isn't a fish..

135 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:32:11pm

re: #127 Cato the Elder

I can still remember the exchange between my Mom and Dad after he saw what she got me for my birthday.

Mom: What's the problem? It's just a knife.
Dad. It's not a knife, It's a F*cking Stiletto!

Like I said. Dad has a very opinionated view when it comes to what he thinks is a proper knife. But then again, he has a problem with me calling guns "weapons" instead of firearms.

136 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:32:19pm

re: #124 brookly red

they are probably reviewing it veeery careful like...

if you know what I mean.

Could be. I hate to think they missed all the cameras containing evidence.

137 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:33:44pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Your characterization of him might be a little harsh, but I was starting to think Chris is Max. He certainly likes to link to him a lot.

You are right, my mistake, I'm being overly harsh on Neutory Karta. They are no were near as damaging to Israel as this Max Blumenthal. The NK is just a bunch of fringe nutters nobody takes seriously, Blumental is an effective anti-Israel propagandist.

138 Christopher H  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:34:17pm

Christ this is difficult. Right:

- A lot of confusion over what the word manipulation means. In its full usage it does not just mean simply "physically change" something. One can also manipulate something for a specific purpose - in this case, showing it in a completely different context. But yes, ok,"photo manipulation" has come to mean doctoring the photo using image software, so I was wrong in using that phrase, and should have been far more careful. Nevertheless, the man in the photo claims he did not even have the knife on him when he was on the ship (but, even if he did, its not an offensive weapon but part of the ceremonial Yemeni dress - all this anti-muslim crap besides)

- The claim made by Max Blumenthal et al is that the audio was added into the video. Whether this is true or not, its obviously an insufficient response to say "but yeh listen to the video! its there!" I know the audio is there, that the point. (And yes, I have listened to the "full" video - still highly edited). If the IDF has nothing to hide it would release the activists recording of the same transmission to see whether they correlate with its own, but for some reason they refuse

- If Huwaida Arraf is lying in saying that what appears in the audio recording is from a previous event, and not from the raid on this flotilla, there is again another way to find out: realise the activists own recordings. While I get accused of not refusing to accept anything the IDF says (I dont believe this is fair), others here refuse to accept anything pro-Palestinians (Blumenthal, Arraf) says. So I guess it cuts both ways

139 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:34:38pm

re: #131 brookly red

sooo... what do you put on your pizza?

there is a reason I ask, trust me...

Don't answer. It's a trap.......

140 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:34:48pm

OK, this is not an Obama slam per say but I am reading that we are giving another 400 million to the Palis... this could turn into quite a big deal if every few months they rent a coupla boats, run the blockade, get turned away & then hold their hands out and expect to get paid. Bad precedent if you ask me.

141 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:35:09pm

Looks like the tadpole tragedy may not be as bad as I first thought. I can count 7-8 tadpoles left. I'm sure the crow got some but I won;t know how many until we get sunshine again in a couple days.
I bought a new plastic owl with a rotating head and threw some bird netting over the tadpole area just to be sure.

142 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:35:39pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Could be. I hate to think they missed all the cameras containing evidence.

trust me they are having lip-readers review every second of footage.

143 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:35:55pm

re: #138 Christopher H

... So I guess it cuts both ways

No, you cut one way only. Your dagger of lies is pointed at Israel.

144 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:38:57pm

re: #140 brookly red

OK, this is not an Obama slam per say but I am reading that we are giving another 400 million to the Palis... this could turn into quite a big deal if every few months they rent a coupla boats, run the blockade, get turned away & then hold their hands out and expect to get paid. Bad precedent if you ask me.

Yup. It's a very bad message to send to the Peace Activists. $400 million from Obama for one attempted kidnapping. They are sure to try this again as soon as possible. This was a huge victory for them. They got a lot of money and a lot of good publicity.
I don't blame them. Obama could be teetering here. If they do this a couple more times they might get him to pressure Israel on the blockade. They have a winning strategy and it could work.

145 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:39:01pm

re: #138 Christopher H

"its not an offensive weapon but part of the ceremonial Yemeni dress"

Guess again asshole. It is an offensive weapon. It can slice, dice, chop and pummel. I think if you look at some of my previous post about knives on this thread you can see that I do know what I am talking about.

Fucking troll.;

146 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:40:45pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Yup. It's a very bad message to send to the Peace Activists. $400 million from Obama for one attempted kidnapping. They are sure to try this again as soon as possible. This was a huge victory for them. They got a lot of money and a lot of good publicity.
I don't blame them. Obama could be teetering here. If they do this a couple more times they might get him to pressure Israel on the blockade. They have a winning strategy and it could work.

phuc... for 400 million I would run the blockade.

147 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:40:58pm

Is it possible to explain the US liberal MSM ignoring the cropping story in a way that does not suggest anti-Israel bias? I can't seem to come up with a good alternative.

148 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:41:28pm

This Reuters story is getting a lot of foreign media/blog coverage, though. Today we're getting thousands of hits from this Russian site:

[Link: www.lenta.ru...]

Anyone know anything about the site?

149 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:41:43pm

re: #138 Christopher H

Christ this is difficult. Right:


- The claim made by Max Blumenthal et al is that the audio was added into the video. Whether this is true or not, its obviously an insufficient response to say "but yeh listen to the video! its there!"

You're right. This is difficult.

I claim that the IDF are not human at all, but are actually zombies. I call upon the IDF to prove me wrong.

See how stupid that is?

We don't give a fuck what Max Blumenthal claims if he doesn't have proof. It is not incumbent upon the IDF to indulge his every inane fantasy. The burden rests on Max to show that the audio is fake.

Honestly. It's like playing tennis with my chihuahua...or at least, what i imagine such a painful exercise would entail...

150 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:42:24pm

re: #148 Charles

Hell, I can't even read it.

151 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:44:13pm

re: #138 Christopher H

its not an offensive weapon but part of the ceremonial Yemeni dress - all this anti-muslim crap besides)

LULZ...homey, we covered this about 20 posts earlier...

152 Bloodnok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:44:48pm

re: #145 Bubblehead II

re: #138 Christopher H

"its not an offensive weapon but part of the ceremonial Yemeni dress"

Guess again asshole. It is an offensive weapon. It can slice, dice, chop and pummel. I think if you look at some of my previous post about knives on this thread you can see that I do know what I am talking about.

Fucking troll.;

No kidding. Are the blue jeans the guy holding the knife is wearing part of that ceremonial dress as well?

153 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:45:13pm

re: #148 Charles

This Reuters story is getting a lot of foreign media/blog coverage, though. Today we're getting thousands of hits from this Russian site:

[Link: www.lenta.ru...]

Anyone know anything about the site?

Wikipedia doesn't have much, but it has this.

154 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:45:44pm

re: #152 Bloodnok

No kidding. Are the blue jeans the guy holding the knife is wearing part of that ceremonial dress as well?

Yeah, but as long as they're not Wranglers/

155 Mike in Boulder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:46:11pm

Charles,

Thanks for being on top of this and doing what you can to expose it. We need more voices like yours.

Mike

156 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:46:22pm

re: #151 Aceofwhat?

LULZ...homey, we covered this about 20 posts earlier...

the program has a limited response sequence... seems to be one of the older models.

157 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:46:24pm

re: #138 Christopher H

What the ... ? The Turk protesters released their own photographs, so they retained access to their materials, why do you think the IDF controls access to whatever mythical audio the Turks might have recorded? The IDF released all of the protesters without interrogation. What makes you think the Turks A.) bothered to record the radio traffic, or B.) would release it if they did? Especially if it only corroborates the Auschwitz reference.

158 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:47:01pm

re: #154 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, but as long as they're not Wranglers/

I think Wranglers would be more acceptable than say, Levi's.

159 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:47:20pm

Here's the account of the photographer who took the pictures.....

Update:

A Turkish-speaking friend of The Lede has kindly translated the extensive eyewitness account of the raid from Sefik Dinc, the Turkish journalist who shot the images used in the Turkish newspaper’s slide show we referred to above. In the interest of completeness, here is an English translation of that text which was published by HaberTurk alongside Mr. Dinc’s photographs:
160 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:48:36pm

re: #152 Bloodnok

Well of course... Just as those metal bars were also ceremonial in nature. I do believe someone (up thread) said that it had something to do with ceremoniously killing Jews.

161 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:48:40pm

re: #154 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, but as long as they're not Wranglers/

So Levi Strauss would be fashionable for an arab terrorist to wear?

162 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:48:45pm

re: #158 wrenchwench

I think Wranglers would be more acceptable than say, Levi's.

Ooh, and American Eagle is probably right out.

163 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:50:04pm

re: #162 Aceofwhat?

Ooh, and American Eagle is probably right out.

duh. Old Navy, sheesh.

164 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:50:41pm

re: #161 Spare O'Lake

So Levi Strauss would be fashionable for an arab terrorist to wear?

No, but i'll bet a French brand would do the trick/

165 Bloodnok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:51:18pm

re: #163 brookly red

re: #162 Aceofwhat?


duh. Old Navy, sheesh.

They make great illicit cargo pants.

166 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:51:22pm

re: #163 brookly red

duh. Old Navy, sheesh.

Maybe he's George W. Groovy...

167 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:52:05pm

re: #160 Bubblehead II

Well of course... Just as those metal bars were also ceremonial in nature. I do believe someone (up thread) said that it had something to do with ceremoniously killing Jews.

Indeed i did! Seemed to make as much sense as saying that my Glock is a ceremonial Floridian cultural tradition...pay no attention to the hollow-points in the clip...it's just cultural...you infidels wouldn't understand/

168 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:53:42pm

re: #165 Bloodnok

They make great illicit cargo pants.

It is a sick world we live in but I predict some a-hole designer will come out with a "blockade runner" line shortly...

169 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:54:24pm

re: #168 brookly red

It is a sick world we live in but I predict some a-hole designer will come out with a "blockade runner" line shortly...

The latest in Corellian Smuggler fashion?

170 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:55:32pm

re: #166 Spare O'Lake

Maybe he's George W. Groovy...

Ooops, I forgot you kids are probably too young to remember that GWG commercial.

171 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:55:58pm

re: #167 Aceofwhat?

Indeed i did! Seemed to make as much sense as saying that my Glock is a ceremonial Floridian cultural tradition...pay no attention to the hollow-points in the clip...it's just cultural...you infidels wouldn't understand/

You have a very rich culture over there

172 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:56:14pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

Here's the account of the photographer who took the pictures...

Update:

What the doctor says completely backs up the IDF version of the story. The first troops were immediately attacked, overwhelmed, and taken belowdecks. At that point the IDF started using live ammunition.

173 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:56:16pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The latest in Corellian Smuggler fashion?

a free LV gas mask bag comes with every 1,000 dollar purchase

174 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:57:21pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

Here's the account of the photographer who took the pictures...

Update:

from that update...

The three Israeli commandos who descended via rope to the pilothouse began to brawl with the volunteers waiting here on the ship.

Well, now we know whether this "activist" is trustworthy or not...given that clear video evidence shows that the moment the first Israeli hit the deck, he was swarmed by a violent mob.

175 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:57:49pm

By the way, that doctor may have taken one of the cropped photos, the earlier one. But I don't think he took the second one.

176 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:57:52pm

re: #173 brookly red

a free LV gas mask bag comes with every 1,000 dollar purchase

and a free ceremonial dagger for 1500$ purchase

177 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:58:07pm

re: #172 Charles

What the doctor says completely backs up the IDF version of the story. The first troops were immediately attacked, overwhelmed, and taken belowdecks. At that point the IDF started using live ammunition.

Obviously the commandoes were only taken below deck to render medical aid. Its not like anyone associated with the Palistinians have a history of hostage taking or anything.

/

178 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:58:23pm

re: #138 Christopher H

Nevertheless, the man in the photo claims he did not even have the knife on him when he was on the ship (but, even if he did, its not an offensive weapon but part of the ceremonial Yemeni dress - all this anti-muslim crap besides)

This is the kind of thing that makes you look like an idiot.

For one thing, as I pointed out, Sikhs are able to get along just fine with their requirement to wear a dagger, by carrying one that is obviously not an offensive weapon-- or by moderating their behavior so that they don't cause undue concern.

Furthermore, something being part of ceremonial dress does not obviate its usefulness as an offensive weapon.

Finally, there is no question that the 'peace activists' had weapons. There exist many photos of them carrying large iron bars, there are videos of them stabbing the commandos; this actually happened. Your quest to say that this photos veracity changes anything seems odd. This photo does not determine whether or not the 'activists' were violent. That they committed violence does show that they committed violence.

179 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:58:48pm

re: #174 Aceofwhat?

Well, now we know whether this "activist" is trustworthy or not...given that clear video evidence shows that the moment the first Israeli hit the deck, he was swarmed by a violent mob.

And by brawl, we mean getting beaten with pipes.

180 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:59:06pm

re: #174 Aceofwhat?

Well, now we know whether this "activist" is trustworthy or not...given that clear video evidence shows that the moment the first Israeli hit the deck, he was swarmed by a violent mob.

volunteers? more like mercenaries.

181 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:59:49pm

re: #179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And by brawl, we mean getting beaten with pipes.

pretty fucking one sided brawl...thus no brawl

182 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 1:59:52pm

re: #173 brookly red

a free LV gas mask bag comes with every 1,000 dollar purchase

Plaid slacks with polka dot suicide vest, because if you're going to fight, you should clash.

183 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:00:20pm

re: #172 Charles

What the doctor says completely backs up the IDF version of the story. The first troops were immediately attacked, overwhelmed, and taken belowdecks. At that point the IDF started using live ammunition.

Yup. The account of the incident is almost identical. It's also confirmed by the live Al Jazeera video too.

184 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:00:45pm

re: #176 KDS1

and a free ceremonial dagger for 1500$ purchase

/I don't care how much you paid for it Buffy you can't board the flight till you hand it over...

185 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:00:47pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plaid slacks with polka dot suicide vest, because if you're going to fight, you should clash.

heh...
smokin hot jest there

186 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:00:51pm

re: #175 Charles

By the way, that doctor may have taken one of the cropped photos, the earlier one. But I don't think he took the second one.

do we know whether any of the people on board was a reuters journalist?

187 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:01:09pm

re: #175 Charles

By the way, that doctor may have taken one of the cropped photos, the earlier one. But I don't think he took the second one.

Check the report again. the Doctor and the photographer are two different people.

188 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:01:16pm

re: #138 Christopher H


- The claim made by Max Blumenthal et al is that the audio was added into the video. Whether this is true or not, its obviously an insufficient response to say "but yeh listen to the video! its there!" I know the audio is there, that the point. (And yes, I have listened to the "full" video - still highly edited). If the IDF has nothing to hide it would release the activists recording of the same transmission to see whether they correlate with its own, but for some reason they refuse

Right, but that's assuming
a) They have such a recording in their possession
b) You would believe it if they did.

The IDF released a recording of the conversation. Why would another recording of the same conversation be any different?

189 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:02:26pm

re: #148 Charles

This Reuters story is getting a lot of foreign media/blog coverage, though. Today we're getting thousands of hits from this Russian site:

[Link: www.lenta.ru...]

Anyone know anything about the site?

It's one of oligarch Vladimir Potanin's pet projects. It's a big player, popular source for online Russian language news.

190 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:02:36pm

re: #167 Aceofwhat?

Indeed i did! Seemed to make as much sense as saying that my Glock is a ceremonial Floridian cultural tradition...pay no attention to the hollow-points in the clip...it's just cultural...you infidels wouldn't understand/

Black Talons I hope. In both 9mm and 45 ACP. :-)

191 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plaid slacks with polka dot suicide vest, because if you're going to fight, you should clash.

I think the IDF is trained to shoot plaid on sight... or at least they should be.

192 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #185 albusteve

heh...
smokin hot jest there

stolen shamelessly

193 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:03:28pm

re: #172 Charles

What the doctor says completely backs up the IDF version of the story. The first troops were immediately attacked, overwhelmed, and taken belowdecks. At that point the IDF started using live ammunition.

Right...although it's probably not too early to begin making the point that the IDF had no reason to think that those kidnapped would be safe in the hands of the mob. And in fact, their short-term care does not prove that the thugs wouldn't have held the soldiers as human shields and later threatened their lives in order to get to Gaza.

I'm bracing myself for inane conclusions that somehow, psychically, the IDF should have known that the captured were not minutes from death and are therefore now doubly murderers of the most vile sort.

It's all so disgustingly tiresome.

194 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:04:19pm

re: #191 brookly red

I think the IDF is trained to shoot plaid on sight... or at least they should be.

It's why they don't train in Scotland.

195 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:04:29pm

re: #190 Bubblehead II

Black Talons I hope. In both 9mm and 45 ACP. :-)

Commie cheese blocks!

196 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:04:52pm

re: #172 Charles

What the doctor says completely backs up the IDF version of the story. The first troops were immediately attacked, overwhelmed, and taken belowdecks. At that point the IDF started using live ammunition.

My reading has the doctor claiming that the 'activists' were killed first, but the journalist, Sefik Dinc, saying that the shooting happened only after the commandos were taken captive.

Doctor:

I am a doctor, and the Israeli soldiers were brought to me to check their medical situation and treat them properly. I had our dead bodies and injured people lying in front of me and I was treating the soldiers that actually killed and wounded them.


Journalist:

The three Israeli commandos who descended via rope to the pilothouse began to brawl with the volunteers waiting here on the ship. In the melee, one soldier was almost cast into the sea, but some members of the group were opposed to it. The neutralized soldiers were later taken down to the hall on the second floor.

**
Volunteers helped a volunteer injured as a result of the shots fired, bringing him downstairs on a stretcher.

With the Israeli troops disarmed, the sound of the gunfire from the helicopters began to change. The rubber bullets fired by Israeli commandos were now real bullets.

197 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:05:22pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Check the report again. the Doctor and the photographer are two different people.

Oh, right. The eyewitness account is from a Turkish journalist. But these are different photos, not the ones that were cropped -- here are the ones taken by Sefic Dinc:

[Link: www.internethaber.com...]

198 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:06:00pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

It's why they don't train in Scotland.

Are you saying that if they did train in Scotland then a lot of folks might be kilt?

199 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:06:05pm

re: #195 albusteve

Commie cheese blocks!

dammit! my free gubermint cheese still has not arrived!

200 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:06:12pm

re: #190 Bubblehead II

Black Talons I hope. In both 9mm and 45 ACP. :-)

I don't really have a glock, although i'm a fan of the Florida castle law. Neither do i really care to indulge "cultural" excuses of the sort that Christopher is attempting!

201 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:06:22pm

LGF: A bunch of knife wielding, Zionist bicycle enthusiasts.

//

202 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:06:58pm

Oh, chuckling heartily here,

Gold Falls as Euro, Equities Gain, Eroding Demand for Haven

June 9 (Bloomberg) -- Gold prices fell the most in three weeks, extending a decline from a record, as the euro and global equities rebounded, eroding the precious metal’s appeal as a haven.

Yesterday, gold futures climbed to an all-time high of $1,254.50 an ounce amid mounting concern that Europe’s debt woes would spread. Before today, the metal gained 14 percent this year.

“Gold looks tired up here,” said Leonard Kaplan, the president of Prospector Asset Management in Evanston, Illinois. “The question is how low will it go.”

203 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:07:15pm

re: #201 MagnaniomousCoward

LGF: A bunch of knife wielding, Zionist bicycle enthusiasts.

//

Hey, I take exception to being called a "bicycle enthusiast." I prefer the term "aficionado."

204 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:07:18pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Yup. The account of the incident is almost identical. It's also confirmed by the live Al Jazeera video too.

So in short, what the Israelis are saying happened and what the Arabs are saying happened is actually identical (because the arabs want to brag about hurting Jewish soldiers) and the only people who are saying differently and lying to do so are Reuters and the anti- Israel left.

The American right, has done so much crazy talk that when they talk about it they are discounted, and the American left is trying hard to spin out with this but getting held up on pesky facts that the Arabs themselves are publishing. End result, confusion of the middle who will shortly move on to discussing the breasts of starlets.

205 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:07:26pm

From an earlier post at The Lede, it looks like the photographer of the pictures that were cropped was Adem Ozkose of Gercek Hayet Magazine. First time I've seen that credit.

206 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:08:18pm

Did somebody say breasts?

207 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:08:18pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

I think its more because Al-Jazeera has actually evolved into a reputable news agency rather than 'they want to brag about hurting Jewish soldiers'.

208 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:08:24pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The latest in Corellian Smuggler fashion?

Stay on Target!

209 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:08:27pm

re: #200 Aceofwhat?

I don't really have a glock, although i'm a fan of the Florida castle law. Neither do i really care to indulge "cultural" excuses of the sort that Christopher is attempting!

I use a 12g to enforce the bunkhouse law here at Ft Willow....aiming is so tiresome

210 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:08:50pm

re: #195 albusteve

You lost me on that one.....

211 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:09:07pm

OT: Dems vote for... someone?
This is Real Fishy

As you may have heard, last night had a big surprise in the Democratic Senate primary in South Carolina. Probably no Democrat would have much of a chance against Sen. Jim DeMint (R) this year. But the main candidate was Vic Rawl, a judge who's also served four terms in the state legislature. He'd raised $186,000. Against him was Alvin Greene, a rather unorthodox candidate. And Greene won. (The best theory people have come up with is that no one in the state had really heard of either guy and Greene's name came first on the ballot; and that gave him an advantage.)

Greene's unemployed, recently out of the Army and living with his parents, and has an outstanding felony arrest from last year for showing obscene photos to a college student.

212 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:09:37pm

re: #209 albusteve

I use a 12g to enforce the bunkhouse law here at Ft Willow...aiming is so tiresome

I hear you...there's something to be said about a defense that only needs to be aimed in the general direction of an invader...

213 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:09:47pm

re: #211 JasonA

Ahahahah, brutal!

214 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:10:40pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

So in short, what the Israelis are saying happened and what the Arabs are saying happened is actually identical (because the arabs want to brag about hurting Jewish soldiers) and the only people who are saying differently and lying to do so are Reuters and the anti- Israel left.

The American right, has done so much crazy talk that when they talk about it they are discounted, and the American left is trying hard to spin out with this but getting held up on pesky facts that the Arabs themselves are publishing. End result, confusion of the middle who will shortly move on to discussing the breasts of starlets.

Life just sucks sometimes, doesn't it. That's why a healthy political system needs a sane portion of the right, and a sane portion of the left.

215 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:10:59pm

re: #205 Charles

From an earlier post at The Lede, it looks like the photographer of the pictures that were cropped was Adem Ozkose of Gercek Hayet Magazine. First time I've seen that credit.

the big question remains: who cropped it?

216 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:03pm

re: #206 Aceofwhat?

Did somebody say breasts?

ignore the tittering... stay on topic.

217 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:20pm
The third soldier, however, suffered a cut in his stomach that reached his stomach membrane but not the organ itself. It was nothing fatal. As a doctor, I wouldn’t want to guess the nature of this injury but it could have been caused by either landing on a sharp pole from the helicopter or a blow from a pipe with a sharp edge. I couldn’t tell.

I love how the doctor tries to make it sound like there wasn't much violence. "Oh, he probably just fell and sliced his abdomen open on a pole. Clumsy Israeli. Either that, or maybe somebody might have accidentally done it with an iron pole"

218 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:23pm

re: #210 Bubblehead II

You lost me on that one...

Gunny on Mail Call used to kill Commie watermellons with all sorts of vintage weapons...blew their asses to smithereens

219 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:26pm

re: #216 brookly red

ignore the tittering... stay on topic.

Hate... you... so... much.

:)

220 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:43pm

re: #201 MagnaniomousCoward

LGF: A bunch of knife wielding, Zionist bicycle pr0n enthusiasts.

//

FTFM

221 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:46pm

re: #208 Dark_Falcon

Stay on Target!

They recovered Porkins flight recorder. Apparently the controls were hard to handle because he had spilled Arby's sauce all over the cockpit.

222 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:11:56pm

re: #218 albusteve

Oh dude, me and my pinko friends do that!

Best use for guns, ever!

223 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:12:37pm

re: #215 KDS1

the big question remains: who cropped it?


I'd say Odem is a good candidate, after a quick google search of him.

224 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:12:47pm

re: #219 windsagio

Hate... you... so... much.

:)

don't be such a boob.

225 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:12:50pm

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

226 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:11pm

re: #211 JasonA

OT: Dems vote for... someone?
This is Real Fishy

yeah, that's weird.

227 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:18pm

re: #200 Aceofwhat?

I don't really have a glock, although i'm a fan of the Florida castle law. Neither do i really care to indulge "cultural" excuses of the sort that Christopher is attempting!

Well I don't own a Glock either, but do have weapons that use the same ammo. Bottom line, you cross the threshold with out permission, you die.

228 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:22pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

I hear you...there's something to be said about a defense that only needs to be aimed in the general direction of an invader...

even if you miss, they shit their pants when their eardrums blow out...I want a sawed off 20g autoloader, put it in a holster when I go to bed

229 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:26pm

re: #224 brookly red

you're dead to me!

(every pun-bastard needs a straightman)

230 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:39pm

re: #217 Joo-LiZ

I love how the doctor tries to make it sound like there wasn't much violence. "Oh, he probably just fell and sliced his abdomen open on a pole. Clumsy Israeli. Either that, or maybe somebody might have accidentally done it with an iron pole"

After they pulled off his body armor while beating him of course...

231 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:41pm

re: #218 albusteve

Gunny on Mail Call used to kill Commie watermellons with all sorts of vintage weapons...blew their asses to smithereens

An excellent show, with several episodes on Hulu. Gunny is The Man.

232 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:13:42pm

re: #218 albusteve

Gunny on Mail Call used to kill Commie watermellons with all sorts of vintage weapons...blew their asses to smithereens

Remember they is green on the outside only...

233 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:14:51pm

re: #201 MagnaniomousCoward

LGF: A bunch of knife wielding, Zionist bicycle enthusiasts.

//

You forgot the guns.......................................................

234 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:14:57pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

What if you're pro oil in that you think we should be doing more to develop our own supplies?

235 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:15:23pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

that's a vintage stretch...you are wrong

236 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:15:27pm

re: #217 Joo-LiZ

I love how the doctor tries to make it sound like there wasn't much violence. "Oh, he probably just fell and sliced his abdomen open on a pole. Clumsy Israeli. Either that, or maybe somebody might have accidentally done it with an iron pole"

A sharp pole from the helicopter! Anything but something from the boat! This helicopter was just tossing off debris left and right, you know, and...

237 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:15:59pm

re: #234 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What if you're pro oil in that you think we should be doing more to develop our own supplies?

The problem is what appears to be a short term gain turns out to be a long term loss.

238 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:16:09pm

re: #217 Joo-LiZ

I love how the doctor tries to make it sound like there wasn't much violence. "Oh, he probably just fell and sliced his abdomen open on a pole. Clumsy Israeli. Either that, or maybe somebody might have accidentally done it with an iron pole"

Yeah, a mere scratch. I read somewhere that he managed to jump overboard and was rescued with his guts hanging out.

239 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:16:18pm

re: #207 windsagio

I think its more because Al-Jazeera has actually evolved into a reputable news agency rather than 'they want to brag about hurting Jewish soldiers'.

You can think that if you wish... However I think that's a little like saying that Fox wants to be a reputable news agency rather than making Obama look bad.

240 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:16:30pm

And that wasn't a reference to AGW, btw.

241 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:16:35pm

re: #234 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Problem is our own supplies won't remotely meet our demand. No matter what, our oil $$$ is going to the ME.

242 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:16:47pm

re: #236 Aceofwhat?

A sharp pole from the helicopter! Anything but something from the boat! This helicopter was just tossing off debris left and right, you know, and...

I think he means that when the soldier got off the helicopter, he hit a pole on the boat, I don't think he meant a pole from the helicopter itself.

Still ridiculous.

243 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:17:36pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

You can think that if you wish... However I think that's a little like saying that Fox wants to be a reputable news agency rather than making Obama look bad.

and the only major news agency to pick up this story was???

heheheh

244 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:18:24pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

We should petition Charles to change your name to LudwigVonIdealist.

245 Alexzander  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:18:26pm

Here is an interview with one of the passangers of the Mavi Marmara who claims to be one of the photographers:
Rabble.ca: Kevin Neish's photos

246 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:18:31pm

re: #231 Slumbering Behemoth

An excellent show, with several episodes on Hulu. Gunny is The Man.

the new show is not nearly as good, more hardware but not down homey like Mail Call with his jeep and tent and melon patch....he was funny as hell back then

247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:19:24pm

re: #246 albusteve

Does he still host that show?

And yeah, I want his jeep. Bad.

248 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #241 windsagio

Problem is our own supplies won't remotely meet our demand. No matter what, our oil $$$ is going to the ME.

The Alberta oil sands are waiting for Obama to get real...

249 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:19:54pm

re: #148 Charles

This Reuters story is getting a lot of foreign media/blog coverage, though. Today we're getting thousands of hits from this Russian site:

[Link: www.lenta.ru...]

Anyone know anything about the site?

Rough translation on the Bagua Page.


LGF exposure of Reuters fauxtography is reported in a major Russian news site.

250 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:20:04pm

This proves that a digital camera chip can be successfully smuggled out of a raid of (arguably) one of the planet´s most professional elite units.

Have some from Burma as well, Reuters?

251 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:21:03pm

re: #247 Slumbering Behemoth

Does he still host that show?

And yeah, I want his jeep. Bad.

it's a new one called Lock and Load I think...it was cool when he reached behind him sitting in that thing and pulled out a BAR or whatever

252 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:21:07pm

re: #234 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What if you're pro oil in that you think we should be doing more to develop our own supplies?

It only means that you don't know how the oil market works. Our own supplies do not exist. All oil is fungible and we were the ones who set up the market that way. Further the amount of oil that we have offshore is minuscule compared to the real producers. Drilling this stuff means that our smal contribution to the world oil market would mostly get eaten by China and could at best lower our own prices by a few cents per gallon for a few years untill depleted. On the other hand doing that drilling means investing billions in capital to do so, that could have been used to get off of oil and make actual productive energy sources at home that would lead to energy independence for real.

People realy should look at Denmark. They produce 21% of their energy from wind and are expanding the program. They created 200,000 jobs in Denmark with the program.

[Link: ens.dk...]

That is what actual energy independence looks like.

Anyone who tells you it can not be done is simply misinformed, talking out of their ass, or lying. However, it can not be done by drilling more oil and reinforcing the status quo.

253 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:21:29pm

re: #248 Spare O'Lake

Show those'll meet our demand :P

Also curious how oil deposits in another country are 'waiting for Obama to get real'. You talking invasion here?

254 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:21:34pm

re: #243 brookly red

and the only major news agency to pick up this story was???

heheheh

And their credibility is? heh heh heh.

255 Alexzander  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:21:36pm

re: #250 Sacred Plants

This proves that a digital camera chip can be successfully smuggled out of a raid of (arguably) one of the planet´s most professional elite units.

Have some from Burma as well, Reuters?

Thats what the photographer claims in the article I posted above.

256 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:22:30pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

Tilting at gas pumps.

re: #250 Sacred Plants

Some photos were smuggled out without the Israelis finding them, but wasn't these deleted by the Israelis, and then undeleted by the photographer? (I haven't read the news story yet.)

257 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:22:36pm

re: #244 JasonA

We should petition Charles to change your name to LudwigVonIdealist.

I like being an idealist, however, there is no logical fallacy in that statement.

258 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:22:36pm

re: #243 brookly red

and the only major news agency to pick up this story was???

heheheh

Part of the reason they did it is because Fox took the lead the last time Reuters did this. A few years ago, Fox used its outsider status to hold the rest of the media accountable. The news-oriented parts of Fox are doing that with this story. The problem is that Fox has forfeited much of its credibility of such matters by letting Glenn Beck rant on and on about how Obama is "bringing Serfdom" and Woodrow Wilson dragged America into WW1, as well as allowing Sarah Palin a platform where she does not need to deal with tough questions.

259 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:22:47pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

Remember this?

260 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:23:10pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

I just find it a little offputting that you automatically attribute telling news you agree with to a greater degree than most US sources to ill-intent.

261 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:23:19pm

re: #254 LudwigVanQuixote

And their credibility is? heh heh heh.

yeah your right... I am sure CNN will get to it one of these days.

262 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:24:26pm

re: #257 LudwigVanQuixote

I like being an idealist, however, there is no logical fallacy in that statement.

So you can't be against Communism if you buy anything from China?

263 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:24:29pm

re: #256 MagnaniomousCoward

No I am not tilting at gas pumps. I am simply stating a fact. The west, because it depends on OIl has to cow tow to the vile demands of the Arab regimes to a greater or lesser extent. There is only one world oil market which we set up - because it was profitable at the time to do so. The price of that is our political and military leverage being countered by brutal and fanatical Arab regimes.

264 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:24:46pm

re: #259 Alouette

Remember this?


[Video]

Brilliant! And yes I do.

265 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:25:00pm

re: #262 JasonA

I'd hardly call modern China Communist >>

266 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:25:36pm

re: #253 windsagio

Show those'll meet our demand :P

Also curious how oil deposits in another country are 'waiting for Obama to get real'. You talking invasion here?

Wait...Canada's another country?
//

267 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:25:47pm

re: #263 LudwigVanQuixote

World catastrophe aside, I always feel as if all the oil magically dissappeared, alot of the problems we're having in the region would dry up post-haste.

268 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:03pm

re: #266 rwdflynavy

I'm still pro-unification myself :D

269 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:03pm

re: #265 windsagio

I'd hardly call modern China Communist >>

No, you wouldn't.

270 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:06pm

re: #262 JasonA

So you can't be against Communism if you buy anything from China?

they have been having some strikes in China lately... the dragon blinked.

271 Slap  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:07pm

re: #211 JasonA

I think the only sane response is:

South Carolina - WTF??????????

272 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:08pm

re: #252 LudwigVanQuixote

It only means that you don't know how the oil market works. Our own supplies do not exist. All oil is fungible and we were the ones who set up the market that way. Further the amount of oil that we have offshore is minuscule compared to the real producers. Drilling this stuff means that our smal contribution to the world oil market would mostly get eaten by China and could at best lower our own prices by a few cents per gallon for a few years untill depleted. On the other hand doing that drilling means investing billions in capital to do so, that could have been used to get off of oil and make actual productive energy sources at home that would lead to energy independence for real.

People realy should look at Denmark. They produce 21% of their energy from wind and are expanding the program. They created 200,000 jobs in Denmark with the program.

[Link: ens.dk...]

That is what actual energy independence looks like.

Anyone who tells you it can not be done is simply misinformed, talking out of their ass, or lying. However, it can not be done by drilling more oil and reinforcing the status quo.

Didn't Sadaam put a bunch of oil wells out of commission for a long time by blowing them up and setting fire to them?
Haven't there been effective blockades in the past?
I'm not saying these things will happen, but it is wrong to say that uninterrupted ME oil revenues are a sure thing.

273 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:18pm

re: #269 JasonA

You would?

274 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:25pm

re: #262 JasonA

So you can't be against Communism if you buy anything from China?

Jason are you putting your brain on? When the world invests in oil, who profits and who do we have to deal with disproportionately because of it?

What set of Mid East nations have undue influence because of oil? Hmmmm....

Don't be stupid.

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:42pm

re: #267 windsagio

World catastrophe aside, I always feel as if all the oil magically dissappeared, alot of the problems we're having in the region would dry up post-haste.

What would we synthesize rubber and plastic from? Lubricants?

276 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:43pm

re: #260 windsagio

I just find it a little offputting that you automatically attribute telling news you agree with to a greater degree than most US sources to ill-intent.

i'm sorry...i keep reading that and not getting it...

277 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:26:55pm

re: #270 brookly red

That's a hell of an interesting story actually. It's interesting to speculate why the gov't isn't cracking down like they usually do.

278 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:27:07pm

re: #265 windsagio

I'd hardly call modern China Communist >>

well shit not by your standards...

279 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:27:19pm

re: #271 Slap

I think the only sane response is:

South Carolina - WTF???

I'm still wondering why an unemployed guy living with his parents wasted over 10 grand to lose to Jim DeMint.

280 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:27:33pm

re: #263 LudwigVanQuixote

No I am not tilting at gas pumps. I am simply stating a fact. The west, because it depends on OIl has to cow tow to the vile demands of the Arab regimes to a greater or lesser extent. There is only one world oil market which we set up - because it was profitable at the time to do so. The price of that is our political and military leverage being countered by brutal and fanatical Arab regimes.

you've conveniently made a ridiculous statement that gives you a platform yo launch your sermons, simply because people disagree with the statement...nice set up

281 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:27:38pm

re: #218 albusteve

Gunny on Mail Call used to kill Commie watermellons with all sorts of vintage weapons...blew their asses to smithereens

Don't watch him. Jar head's (Common Inter - Service Rivalry) term, just as they cal us "bubbleheads)

282 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:27:51pm

re: #267 windsagio

World catastrophe aside, I always feel as if all the oil magically dissappeared, alot of the problems we're having in the region would dry up post-haste.

Exactly. Exactly. What would happen if the Arabs through a pity party and no one came? What would happen if they did not have billions to finance world terror with? How long would anyone in even Europe put up with their shit if they did not need Arab oil? Hell the Arabs might even need to join the 21st century, teach their populaces to read and give women rights to compensate.

283 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:01pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

Defensive instructors have a technical term for this advantage.
We call that "ease of use"
Heh.

284 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:10pm

re: #262 JasonA

So you can't be against Communism if you buy anything from China?

Image: queen_of_diamonds1.jpg

285 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:16pm

re: #275 Slumbering Behemoth

"world catastrophe aside' >>

Lets change it then, since we're talking about magic.

"If all of that oil were magically transferred to Argentina, a lot of our problems in the ME would dry up pretty quickly, it seems to me'

286 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:44pm

re: #281 Bubblehead II

Don't watch him. Jar head's (Common Inter - Service Rivalry) term, just as they cal us "bubbleheads)

I have never called a squid a bubblehead.

287 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:54pm

re: #265 windsagio

I'd hardly call modern China Communist >>

of course you wouldn't....just a unique form of tribalism, where people are owned by the govt...hey! they're just like us right?

288 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:28:56pm

re: #253 windsagio

Show those'll meet our demand :P

Also curious how oil deposits in another country are 'waiting for Obama to get real'. You talking invasion here?

The oil sands contain proven reserves second only to Saudi Arabia. And Canada would love to welcome lots and lots of US investment to help us to develop this resource.

289 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:29:35pm

re: #276 Aceofwhat?

Al Jazeera is totally publishing things about the incident that people are clearly digging/liking.

That being said, Ludwig attributed it not to good reporting, but rather to a desire to 'brag about killing Jewish Soldiers'. I find that jump offputting.

290 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:00pm

re: #282 LudwigVanQuixote

Exactly. Exactly. What would happen if the Arabs through a pity party and no one came? What would happen if they did not have billions to finance world terror with?

Apparently, they'd try to ram Israel with a boat and then scam our administration for $400mil to soothe their feelings...seems to work for Hamas...

291 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:01pm

re: #277 windsagio

That's a hell of an interesting story actually. It's interesting to speculate why the gov't isn't cracking down like they usually do.

because they have become what the sought to overcome & don't quite know how to deal with it... they could be in a shitload of trouble if their workers ever started to read Marx...

292 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:10pm

re: #272 Spare O'Lake

Didn't Sadaam put a bunch of oil wells out of commission for a long time by blowing them up and setting fire to them?
Haven't there been effective blockades in the past?
I'm not saying these things will happen, but it is wrong to say that uninterrupted ME oil revenues are a sure thing.

Well Saddam's impact was a trickle on overall production. Further, last I checked the oil embargo hurt the US during the Nixon years. The only good thing is it hurt the Saudis just as badly.

At the end of the day our strategic partners in Europe are dependent on oil from the Arabs. The only good thing is that the Europeans, like the Danes have the sense to start exploring other energy sources for real.

293 MagnaniomousCoward  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:34pm

re: #263 LudwigVanQuixote

I was joking about your user name, and I guess we are too dependent on oil.

re: #275 Slumbering Behemoth

Let's return to commercial whaling.

//

There wouldn't be enough whales to keep up with demand. We can safely whale quite a bit more than what is done today, but not enough to meet worldwide industrial needs for whale oil, if petroleum was out. The reason that no whale species was wiped out wasn't really regulation, but the drop in demand for whale products, I think.

294 Slap  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:45pm

re: #260 windsagio

No offense intended -- 'cause I certainly have my own knock-down-drag-outs with syntax -- but I agree with Ace. This sentence appears to be waterboarded.....

295 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:30:51pm

re: #289 windsagio

Al Jazeera is totally publishing things about the incident that people are clearly digging/liking.

That being said, Ludwig attributed it not to good reporting, but rather to a desire to 'brag about killing Jewish Soldiers'. I find that jump offputting.

lot's of offput around here...no big deal

296 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:31:22pm

re: #280 albusteve

No Steve, it is a simple fact that the backbone of Muslim power in the world is oil sales. Care to disprove that? If you are pro oil, you can not be pro Israel.

297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:31:38pm

re: #285 windsagio

Seriously, I would like to know. If the world supply of oil dries up, and we have no other way(s) to synthesize rubbers, plastics, and lubricants, pretty much every industry in the world would be fucked hard.

In the medical/surgical industry alone, think of all the rubber, plastic, and lubricants that are needed. We'd end up back in the friggin' stone age.

298 Slap  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:31:57pm

re: #289 windsagio

Ah. Good clarification, thanks.

299 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:32:00pm

re: #288 Spare O'Lake

Ludwig's comments on it aside, can Obama force companies to invest? The reason that oil isn't being tapped is because its not worth the cost to tap it yet.

I swear people want to increase our oil output as fast as possible, just to save 2 cents a gallon.

We're eventually gonna run out you know, and people aren't exactly gonna take any extra output and bank it.

300 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:32:09pm

re: #282 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

Exactly. Exactly. What would happen if the Arabs threw a pity party and no one came? What would happen if they did not have billions to finance world terror with? How long would anyone in even Europe put up with their shit if they did not need Arab oil? Hell the Arabs might even need to join the 21st century, teach their populaces to read and give women rights to compensate.

301 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:32:58pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

No Steve, it is a simple fact that the backbone of Muslim power in the world is oil sales. Care to disprove that? If you are pro oil, you can not be pro Israel.

post something new for a change, and don't patronize me because I get bored with your rap...it's only natural after hundreds of posts that say the very same thing

302 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:33:05pm

re: #291 brookly red

Which goes to my point above. Industrial China is a Totalitarian capitalist state, not a communist at all.

The rural regions are largely communist tho', I'll grant that.

303 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:33:09pm

re: #289 windsagio

Al Jazeera is totally publishing things about the incident that people are clearly digging/liking.

That being said, Ludwig attributed it not to good reporting, but rather to a desire to 'brag about killing Jewish Soldiers'. I find that jump offputting.

I can see how a person could disagree with that 'jump', but to find it off-putting, you'd need to whitewash their clear and consistent bias throughout the years.

Ludwig is a trendline kind of guy, and few organizations keep their sigma as small as Al-Jezeera...i can't blame him in this instance.

304 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:33:39pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

No Steve, it is a simple fact that the backbone of Muslim power in the world is oil sales. Care to disprove that? If you are pro oil, you can not be pro Israel.

That's a horrible over simplification of the issue. Does Israel use oil? Yes. Is Israel demonstrably not pro Israel? Ha!

305 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:34:03pm

re: #245 Alexzander

Here is an interview with one of the passangers of the Mavi Marmara who claims to be one of the photographers:
Rabble.ca: Kevin Neish's photos

Nice find...

I noticed this:

I was actually when they hauled the captured Israeli soldiers in. I can't imagine how these young fellas, with all the weapons you could possibly want, how these commandos got captured by humanitarian aid workers.

And to make the point, they had a tough time holding [one soldier] down. They were disarming him, pulling all his belts off, his weapons, taking his helmet off. And a big fellow, enraged, reached over this circle of men trying to pin this fellow, and tried to take a swipe at the Israeli. I guess he was trying to get at him. And there was a great uproar. Shouts and voices and they wrestled him out of the way, to stop him hitting the Israeli. And I saw that. I'm sure people would call me a liar, but I saw that.

What I saw was nobody laid a hand on these two soldiers. I heard there were more captured.

It seems to corroborate the idea that there were two groups -- the violent mercenaries, and the good-hearted dupes.

It's interesting to compare that to this from the Lede:

Mr. Akinan said that the captured soldier had been entrusted to him by Bulent Yildirim, the director of the Turkish aid organization I.H.H., who said: “Murat, take him and make sure that he’ll be safe. Be careful, don’t allow anyone to touch him.”

Mr. Akinan says that the director of IHH was the one who told him to protect the Israeli. It seems Yildirim was specifically coordinating the two "groups" (mercenaries and useful idiots). He wanted just enough violence to get the Israelis to use force, but also wanted to ensure that the useful idiots within the ship saw the captured soldiers being taken care of, to sow further confusion.

It also helps to explain the accounts of the mercenaries taking full control of sections of the ship, preventing others from going places. They wanted to isolate the useful idiots to make sure they wouldn't see the violence or preparations for the violence occuring top-side.

Yildirim is the same guy who gave the MEMRI translated speech in Gaza last year.

Hmmmm...

The dots seem to be connecting more and more.

306 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:34:45pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

No Steve, it is a simple fact that the backbone of Muslim power in the world is oil sales. Care to disprove that? If you are pro oil, you can not be pro Israel.


you should at least be honest and amend this tripe to include yourself...you are a huge part of the problem as individuals go...probably own your own refinery for all the oil energy you consume

307 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:34:53pm

re: #297 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh I totally agree. I actually use that as a reason to delay further exploitation of some of these sources at this point.

We can replace petroleum as an energy source. Some of those other uses, not so much.

Further, increasing output doesn't make us save it, it just goes into use immediately. We need to start treating oil as a non-renewable resource.

308 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:34:56pm

re: #267 windsagio

World catastrophe aside, I always feel as if all the oil magically dissappeared, alot of the problems we're having in the region would dry up post-haste.

Kind of like if you got rid of all people you wouldn't have any more international conflict?

309 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:35:10pm

re: #304 Slumbering Behemoth

That's a horrible over simplification of the issue. Does Israel use oil? Yes. Is Israel demonstrably not pro Israel? Ha!

Oh for God's sake. And where does Israel get most of its oil from... Egypt - their really good friends.

Simple argument here folks. Take the money from the Arab regimes and you clip their wings.

310 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:35:42pm

re: #302 windsagio

Which goes to my point above. Industrial China is a Totalitarian capitalist state, not a communist at all.

The rural regions are largely communist tho', I'll grant that.

totalitarian being the key word yes... too much power in the central gubermint.

311 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:36:04pm

Hey everyone...busy day so I haven't been around, but I just saw this nugget which should make everyone shudder with joy. Sue "Chickens for Checkups" Lowden lost last night, as we know, to Sharron Angle (two Rs in Sharron, remember)...a Teabagger favorite and, it appears, another prodigy of the John Birch Society.

How does Angle feel about Flouride? Why, it's a government plot, of course!

Before the vote, Assemblywoman Sharron Angle, R-Reno, sought to postpone the vote so she could add an amendment to block fluoridation in Washoe County.
312 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:36:21pm

re: #301 albusteve

post something new for a change, and don't patronize me because I get bored with your rap...it's only natural after hundreds of posts that say the very same thing

Excuse me. I was writing that you can't support the oil industry and Israel at the same time. I know you get bored with getting obvious things pointed out to you, but you struggle anyway. It's droll.

313 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:36:34pm

re: #303 Aceofwhat?

Been interesting to watch the ol' Al-J over the last decade or so. In my mind they've matured substantially as a news source (especially their English-language section), but people often still think of them as what they were in 2001.

314 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:36:45pm

re: #309 LudwigVanQuixote

Simple argument here folks.

You're making it too simple. You know it's a lot more complicated than "If you buy oil, you are not pro Israel".

315 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:37:14pm

re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote

Jason are you putting your brain on? When the world invests in oil, who profits and who do we have to deal with disproportionately because of it?

What set of Mid East nations have undue influence because of oil? Hmmm...

Don't be stupid.

Fine. Run with this. Tell everyone who's pro-oil (and I'm not even one of them) that they're not really pro-Israel. Make them pick a side. Hell of a way to kill a big chunk of US support for the country.

316 dell*nix  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:37:17pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Never did learn how to keep a properly sharp edge on mIne.

317 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:37:30pm

re: #307 windsagio

We need to start treating oil as a non-renewable resource.

At least until we can clone and breed dinosaurs. Then we can 1) Bury them and 3) instant profit! /

318 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:37:45pm

re: #310 brookly red

I actually think China is the most evil and dangerous state in the world, long-term.

Yes, I know people won't agree with me.

319 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:37:47pm

re: #311 darthstar

Hey everyone...busy day so I haven't been around, but I just saw this nugget which should make everyone shudder with joy. Sue "Chickens for Checkups" Lowden lost last night, as we know, to Sharron Angle (two Rs in Sharron, remember)...a Teabagger favorite and, it appears, another prodigy of the John Birch Society.

How does Angle feel about Flouride? Why, it's a government plot, of course!

oops...that's supposed to be COMMUNIST plot...(PIMF, where the P stands for paranoia)

320 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:38:11pm

bbl

321 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:38:22pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

If you are pro oil, you can not be pro Israel.

That is silly and just plain wrong, and you know it. Otherwise Israel would already have ceased to exist.

322 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:38:22pm

re: #308 DaddyG

More like if you got rid of the money people wouldn't be able to buy suitcase bombs :(

323 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:11pm

re: #314 Slumbering Behemoth

You're making it too simple. You know it's a lot more complicated than "If you buy oil, you are not pro Israel".

You are taking it in the wrong context.

As long as the oil industry persists and is dominated by Arab and Persian oil fields, and it will be until we run out, because that is just where so much of the oil is, supporting the oil industry gives undue power and leverage to those states, which they use against Israel.

That is just a fact.

324 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:12pm

re: #315 JasonA

If you ride a bicycle (rubber, plastic, lubricant), you can not be pro Israel.

325 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:23pm

re: #311 darthstar

Truly a contest of winners!

326 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:25pm

re: #313 windsagio

Been interesting to watch the ol' Al-J over the last decade or so. In my mind they've matured substantially as a news source (especially their English-language section), but people often still think of them as what they were in 2001.

I don't know about that, but for me the defining moment for Al Jazeera, when they let their mask drop completely, was this birthday party for a child-killing terrorist:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I wrote then that this disgusting, evil show should prevent the network from ever being picked up by US cable providers, and I still believe that.

327 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:37pm

re: #318 windsagio

I actually think China is the most evil and dangerous state in the world, long-term.

Yes, I know people won't agree with me.

oh I do (but this is not the end of days) but that is what happens to people when their gubermint gets too powerful.

328 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:39:58pm

re: #323 LudwigVanQuixote

You are taking it in the wrong context.

As long as the oil industry persists and is dominated by Arab and Persian oil fields, and it will be until we run out, because that is just where so much of the oil is, supporting the oil industry gives undue power and leverage to those states, which they use against Israel.

That is just a fact.

Colonize Arabia! (Oh wait didn't the British already try that?) //

329 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:40:05pm

re: #323 LudwigVanQuixote

That I will agree with. Your opening argument, not so much.

330 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:40:36pm

re: #324 Slumbering Behemoth

C'mon you know what he's trying to say.

We all use petroleum. Everyone acknowledges that.

Campaigning heavily for the oil industry is playing directly into the hands of such wonderful allies as Saudi Arabia (and Venezuela!)

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:41:07pm

Yippie! I got a ride to the auto parts store. Catch y'all later.

332 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:41:29pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

Yippie! I got a ride to the auto parts store. Catch y'all later.

Could you pick me up some brake pads?

333 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:41:36pm

re: #255 Alexzander
re: #256 MagnaniomousCoward

Let´s hope for the Israelis they did not permanently delete any of the materials that fell into their hands.

334 DaddyG  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:41:48pm

Where would our society be without rubbers and lubricants?

335 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:42:03pm

re: #315 JasonA

Fine. Run with this. Tell everyone who's pro-oil (and I'm not even one of them) that they're not really pro-Israel. Make them pick a side. Hell of a way to kill a big chunk of US support for the country.

Again hurt feelings take the place of simple cause and effect in analysis. OK fine... be pro oil... pretend that does not support a brutal environment for Israel by strengthening her enemies. Pretend that does not provide billions of dollars each year to really nasty organizations that hate us too. Pretend that Iran isn't building a nuke with oil money. Pretend that the US and Europe haven't had to kneel down and blow these regimes for decades because of it.

Brilliant.

336 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:42:26pm

re: #323 LudwigVanQuixote

You are taking it in the wrong context.

As long as the oil industry persists and is dominated by Arab and Persian oil fields, and it will be until we run out, because that is just where so much of the oil is, supporting the oil industry gives undue power and leverage to those states, which they use against Israel.

That is just a fact.

isn't there any oil in Africa?

337 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:42:28pm

re: #312 LudwigVanQuixote

Excuse me. I was writing that you can't support the oil industry and Israel at the same time. I know you get bored with getting obvious things pointed out to you, but you struggle anyway. It's droll.

I know what you posted, it's laughable...you didn't say "support the oil industry"....you posted one "cannot be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time"....what exactly is "pro oil"?....do you drive a car, or use a computer?...try to keep up

338 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:42:53pm

re: #299 windsagio

Ludwig's comments on it aside, can Obama force companies to invest?

Yes he can...at least I'm sure he thinks so.
1. Tax incentives
2. Special treaty with Canada to secure supply
3. Surtax on ME oil imports
4. Create a national oil company

339 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #334 DaddyG

Where would our society be without rubbers and lubricants?

Let's not restart the Folsom Street Fair argument.

/

340 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:43:08pm

re: #309 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh for God's sake. And where does Israel get most of its oil from... Egypt - their really good friends.

Simple argument here folks. Take the money from the Arab regimes and you clip their wings.

Reducing the consumption of oil most certainly damages the ability of the Arab and Iranian regimes to prepare for war with Israel and sponsor terrorism.

If the US substantially reduced their use of imported oil, the Arabs and Iranians would be hard pressed to sell their oil above a rate that just allows them to feed their people. With high oil consumption, they can afford vast quantities of weapons and have money to arm and sponsor their terrorist armies. This without even referencing the massive transfer of wealth going to these vile nations which further damages the US and Israel.

I'm with Ludwig on this one. Americans could do this right away if they had the will.

341 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:43:17pm

re: #326 Charles

I guess the question is 'is the English language edition reporting seperately or is it some kind of a cover for the Arabic edition'?

Because I'll agree the Arabic language part is freakin' evil.

Also, I'd bet real money that they won't get on any US cable in the forseeable future.

342 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:43:38pm

re: #321 Spare O'Lake

That is silly and just plain wrong, and you know it. Otherwise Israel would already have ceased to exist.

As long as the oil industry persists and is dominated by Arab and Persian oil fields, and it will be until we run out, because that is just where so much of the oil is, supporting the oil industry gives undue power and leverage to those states, which they use against Israel.

343 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:44:44pm

re: #339 Obdicut

Let's not restart the Folsom Street Fair argument.

/

Spoilsport.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:44:56pm

re: #337 albusteve

I know what you posted, it's laughable...you didn't say "support the oil industry"...you posted one "cannot be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time"...what exactly is "pro oil"?...do you drive a car, or use a computer?...try to keep up

You know exactly what I meant Steve. You know that from the way the oil market works and what I wrote about it. You are just being a troll - again. I would prefer being a little more friendly.

345 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:45:08pm

re: #328 DaddyG

Colonize Arabia! (Oh wait didn't the British already try that?) //

Well, they didn't exactly understand how important oil was going to turn out in the long run when they tried it before.

346 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:45:59pm

re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote

At some point I should introduce you to my secretary, Eliza. Makes dealing with the more disreputable elements so much more enjoyable :D

347 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:46:10pm

re: #334 DaddyG

Where would our society be without rubbers and lubricants?

Catholic?

348 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:46:30pm

re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote

You know exactly what I meant Steve. You know that from the way the oil market works and what I wrote about it. You are just being a troll - again. I would prefer being a little more friendly.

your post do not jibe...and you didn't bother to answer the question...and stop bolding all your posts, there is no need for that, thread whore

349 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:47:18pm

re: #338 Spare O'Lake

Yes he can...at least I'm sure he thinks so.
1. Tax incentives
2. Special treaty with Canada to secure supply
3. Surtax on ME oil imports
4. Create a national oil company

1) They don't get enough already?
2) Not even part of the issue.
3) Against the way the whole Oil market works.
4) Would be totally the opposite of helpful in the case of exploiting oil resources in Canada.

350 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:47:25pm

re: #338 Spare O'Lake

Yes he can...at least I'm sure he thinks so.
1. Tax incentives
2. Special treaty with Canada to secure supply
3. Surtax on ME oil imports
4. Create a national oil company

gee our national mortgage company did so well... lemmie think about that for a second...

351 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:47:34pm

re: #347 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The rubbers I get, but lube?

352 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:47:45pm

re: #318 windsagio

I actually think China is the most evil and dangerous state in the world, long-term.

Yes, I know people won't agree with me.

Yes, China has actually had the audacity to exist for around five thousand years, outlasting ever other empire, to remain essentially Chinese throughout all shifts of dynastic and political power, and to show no signs of changing to please anyone but the Chinese.

Oh, and they forced us at gunpoint to mortgage our future by accepting all those loans from them.

Truly evil.

353 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:48:24pm

re: #336 brookly red

isn't there any oil in Africa?

Well the super shahran oil fields are in Arab hands - that is Africa you know. The sub-saharan oil fields have created an economic and human nightmare for the peoples of those countries. It is the same old story about brutal thug helped into power by Western oil money. The results are terrible.

In fact, Nigeria's carbon emissions are greater than England's. Why, because BP finds it cheaper to just burn the gas from its facilities there then to ship it. Let that tidbit sink in.

Also, the total output from those regions is still dwarfed by Arab and Persian production.

354 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:48:42pm

re: #352 Cato the Elder

Heh :)

355 Randall Gross  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:48:49pm

re: #311 darthstar

Hey everyone...busy day so I haven't been around, but I just saw this nugget which should make everyone shudder with joy. Sue "Chickens for Checkups" Lowden lost last night, as we know, to Sharron Angle (two Rs in Sharron, remember)...a Teabagger favorite and, it appears, another prodigy of the John Birch Society.

How does Angle feel about Flouride? Why, it's a government plot, of course!

Standard Bircher stance.

356 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:48:51pm

re: #351 windsagio

The rubbers I get, but lube?

Pina Colada water based lubricant aint mentioned in the Bible!

357 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:48:57pm

re: #350 brookly red

gee our national mortgage company did so well... lemmie think about that for a second...

Sure did didn't it? Yeah, just what we need. The Federal government manipulating the oil market. That outta work.

358 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:49:09pm

re: #346 windsagio

At some point I should introduce you to my secretary, Eliza. Makes dealing with the more disreputable elements so much more enjoyable :D

cool have em call mine, Helen, Helen Wait.

359 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:49:40pm

re: #340 Bagua

Reducing the consumption of oil most certainly damages the ability of the Arab and Iranian regimes to prepare for war with Israel and sponsor terrorism.

If the US substantially reduced their use of imported oil, the Arabs and Iranians would be hard pressed to sell their oil above a rate that just allows them to feed their people. With high oil consumption, they can afford vast quantities of weapons and have money to arm and sponsor their terrorist armies. This without even referencing the massive transfer of wealth going to these vile nations which further damages the US and Israel.

I'm with Ludwig on this one. Americans could do this right away if they had the will.

Wouldn't increasing the supply of oil do the same thing?

360 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:50:40pm

re: #359 Spare O'Lake

We can't possibly increase the supply to a degree that would matter. That's the essential problem.

Well that and, increasing supply is bad long-term planning anyways.

361 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:50:53pm

re: #359 Spare O'Lake

Wouldn't increasing the supply of oil do the same thing?

There simply isn't that much oil to do so. It is a finite resource and most of it is NOT in our hands.

362 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:18pm

re: #350 brookly red

gee our national mortgage company did so well... lemmie think about that for a second...

Heh. I knew you would love the national oil company thing. I hate the idea too, but the mere mention of it would be a good way to put pressure on the multinational oil companies.

363 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:19pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

There simply isn't that much oil to do so. It is a finite resource and most of it is NOT in our hands.

yet...

364 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:20pm

re: #319 darthstar

oops...that's supposed to be COMMUNIST plot...(PIMF, where the P stands for paranoia)

OK, I knew Angle was out there, but I didn't know she was in Bircher territory. Harry Reid got to be doing the Peanuts Happy Dance after hearing this one. Angle is a loon who'll lose by 7% is my prediction.

365 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:28pm

OT but hella funny.

(yes, I said Hella)

366 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:32pm

Won't happen. Even if we stopped buying oil from Saudi Arabia they'd find another customer. The largest importer to the United States is Canada. SA is second. Next up at number 3 is Mexico.

Any attempt to manipulate the market might even run afoul of international anti-trust laws. Essentially it would require the government take-over of oil trading within the USA. That is not how a free-market should operate regardless of how good one might think it may be.

367 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:46pm

Lizards. Time to call it a day/night.

To all of you USMC (Active/Retired/Otherwise)

Semper Fidelis

For all The USN (Active/Retired/Otherwise)

Fair Winds and a Following Sea.

///////The rest of ya, well you are just friggin wharf rats.........


Sarc Aside. Thanks Ladies and Gents thanks for your service. Without it our Nation wouldn't be what it is is.

//// But if you aint Navy, you are still wharf rats :-).

368 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:47pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

There simply isn't that much oil to do so. It is a finite resource and most of it is NOT in our hands.

Would you justify actions to place it in our hands?

369 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:52:56pm

Establishing Superman’s immigrant status

Do a quick Google search for the terms “Superman” and “illegal,” and you’ll get hundreds of hits. Almost all of them lead to the same argument. Superman, the symbol of truth, justice and the American way, is an illegal immigrant. As such, he’s breaking the same law as the millions of illegal Mexicans that “evil racist conservatives” allegedly despise.

It may seem ludicrous, as Superman is an alien of the most fictional variety, but for some reason, the claim is catching hold and spreading like wildfire among the left. Some people pose the theory in the hopes that it will elevate the image of illegal immigrants, others just seem to enjoy painting an American icon as a criminal. Whatever the motive, it’s important to note a few facts.

Superman, or Kal-El if you prefer, is NOT an illegal immigrant. He’s a refugee who came to this country due to the decisions of others.

370 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:53:07pm

re: #362 Spare O'Lake

Heh. I knew you would love the national oil company thing. I hate the idea too, but the mere mention of it would be a good way to put pressure on the multinational oil companies.

think thunder dome... Embargo!

371 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:53:24pm

re: #364 Dark_Falcon

Seems to me that the TP people are really screwing what should be quite large GOP gains this year. (not saying they won't still gain, note, just less than they should)

372 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:54:05pm

re: #368 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would you justify actions to place it in our hands?

NO I would not. First off I really don't think we should be an imperial nation and second off, more importantly, because all that would do is guarantee we burn it and cause an eco collapse.

373 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:54:41pm

re: #368 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That is really beyond the realm of possibility. Aside from the cost of more invasions, I still think back to Saddam trying to blow the wells in '91.

374 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:55:25pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

There simply isn't that much oil to do so. It is a finite resource and most of it is NOT in our hands.

It might not take that much extra supply to drive down the price, especially if alternate energy sources were also pursued at the same time.
And then again, don't forget your friendly neighbour to the north which is practically choking on proven oil reserves.

375 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:55:39pm

Whoo-hoo! I'm ready for the World Cup! Just ordered my T-Shirt...Go team USA!


Image: GRA9000030MD.jpg

376 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:03pm

A note from Wiki on the use of Yemeni ceremonial weaponry:

Despite the [cultural] significance of the jambiya, it is still a weapon. Although people have used it in times of dispute, there are societal norms that must be followed in order to avoid defamation. The jambiya should only come out of its sheath in extreme cases of conflict. It is also commonly used in traditional events such as dances.†

†Cato notes: such as in the traditional symbolic ceremony of the Slitting of the Jew-Throat.

377 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:10pm

re: #374 Spare O'Lake

let me put it in bold, italics and caps for you.

Price should not be the issue we're concerned about here.

378 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:10pm
379 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:25pm

re: #303 Aceofwhat?

I can see how a person could disagree with that 'jump', but to find it off-putting, you'd need to whitewash their clear and consistent bias throughout the years.

Ludwig is a trendline kind of guy, and few organizations keep their sigma as small as Al-Jezeera...i can't blame him in this instance.

I agree that Al Jazeera has a bias, I'm just not as bothered by that as some people, as I believe they tend to be both fairly honest and professional about it. They inherited a lot of their very talented professional staff from the shuttered BBC mideast news bureau and have been fairly consistent about maintaining firm lines between news and editorials. They're doing a much better job than either Reuters or Fox, and have been for a very long time.

A lot of the antipathy towards them in the US is just knee jerk, although some is a genuine educated dislike for the editorial bias Al Jazeera make no effort to hide. I still find Control Room to be one of the best documentaries ever made concerning the subject of bias in media:

Lt. Josh Rushing: hen I watch Al Jazeera, I can tell what they're showing and what they're not showing by choice. It's the same thing when I watch Fox on the other end of the spectrum.

...

Joshua Rushing: The night they showed the POWs and dead soldiers... it was powerful, because Americans won't show those kinds of images. It made me sick to my stomach.

...

Joshua Rushing: I just saw people on the other side, and those people in the Al Jazeera offices must have felt the way I was feeling that night, and it upset me on a profound level that I wasn't bothered as much the night before. It makes me hate war.

...

It makes me hate war, but it doesn't make me believe that we're in a world that can live without war yet.

...

Samir Khader: Between us, if I'm offered a job at Fox News, I'll take it. Instantly. I will send my children to go to America after highschool, I will pay for them to go, to exchange the Arab nightmare for the American dream.

380 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:43pm

But what is in our hands is to make an end to the shadow budget on the oil reserves. Humanity might even have reached peak oil already whithout having noticed it yet.

381 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:50pm

re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, it is impossible to legitimately be pro oil and pro Israel at the same time. Every time you tank up, you help the enemies of Israel and the West.

Now thats an entirelyre: #369 researchok

Establishing Superman’s immigrant status

also, he was sent away from a dying star. Since his star does not exist, he can't be deported.

382 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:56:52pm

re: #371 windsagio

Seems to me that the TP people are really screwing what should be quite large GOP gains this year. (not saying they won't still gain, note, just less than they should)

and note you did say should :)

383 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:57:40pm

re: #375 darthstar

Whoo-hoo! I'm ready for the World Cup! Just ordered my T-Shirt...Go team USA!

Image: GRA9000030MD.jpg

Netherlands!
Yes I have the orange Soccer outfit

384 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:57:45pm

re: #376 Cato the Elder

Makes me think of the thing they always warned us about when we visited Tromsø. "Be careful when you talk to the Sámi. Those knives aren't for show."

385 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:58:03pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

There simply isn't that much oil to do so. It is a finite resource and most of it is NOT in our hands.


so all the oil on the planet has been discovered and measured?...give me a break

386 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:58:14pm

re: #375 darthstar

Whoo-hoo! I'm ready for the World Cup! Just ordered my T-Shirt...Go team USA!

Image: GRA9000030MD.jpg

You can't be pro-Britain for the World Cup and pro-sex at the same time...
Brit footies to abstain from sex to win the World Cup!

Brit players' partners cannot stay overnight and sex is completely forbidden.

To see that the rule is not violated the coach will keep an eye on his players via TVs installed in their rooms.

387 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:58:35pm

re: #382 brookly red

Believe me, only speaking probability wise.

That being said, you guys can have all the damn Blue-dog seats you want :)

388 Slap  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:59:15pm

re: #347 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Omaha.

389 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 2:59:57pm

re: #386 JasonA

But what if some players get aroused by being watched by a British Soccer coach?

390 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:00:25pm

re: #377 windsagio

let me put it in bold, italics and caps for you.

Price should not be the issue we're concerned about here.

Excuse me, yes it is. We were talking about getting the price of oil down enough to cripple the ME producers from having enough money to finance terror and arm themselves and their proxies to the teeth.

391 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:00:40pm

re: #388 Slap

Omaha.

392 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:00:44pm

re: #326 Charles

My response would be deleted Just as this individual should be as well.

393 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:01:08pm

re: #389 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But what if some players get aroused by being watched by a British Soccer coach?

Pretty sure they wrote "TVs" where they should have put "cameras."

394 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:01:12pm

re: #390 Spare O'Lake

I don't think you have a proper grasp of what that would entail.

395 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:01:13pm

re: #379 goddamnedfrank

A lot of the antipathy towards them in the US is just knee jerk, although some is a genuine educated dislike for the editorial bias Al Jazeera make no effort to hide.

There's nothing "knee jerk" about it for me. Al Jazeera is well known throughout the Arab world as a front group for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Watch this video, from July 19, 2008, when Al Jazeera broadcast a hero's birthday party for released terrorist Samir Kuntar -- who kidnapped an Israeli family, shot a little girl's father in front of her eyes, then bashed the little girl's brains out with his rifle stock.

396 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:01:44pm

re: #392 Bubblehead II

Oh c'mon now, don't be coy :)

397 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:02:23pm

re: #386 JasonA

/and in a late breaking story, a body believed to be that of the British coach was discovered early this morning in what police are calling a...

398 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:02:33pm

re: #385 albusteve

so all the oil on the planet has been discovered and measured?...give me a break

It really really is not worth debating with you when you get like that. Simple statement.

If you support the oil industry, you empower our enemies and Israel's enemies. That is something so obvious that it boggles my mind that you can possibly argue otherwise.

399 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:02:59pm

I would like to note here that the concept of "peak oil" has absolutely no bearing on whether or not humanity will be able to counter the threat of AGW.

Even if we could establish a date certain for "peak oil", we will still continue to have massive amounts of oil at our disposal for another hundred years or so. The only way to reduce CO2 emissions is to find, fund, and use alternative energy sources. We cannot depend on "running out" of oil to do that for us.

400 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:03:10pm

re: #394 windsagio

I don't think you have a proper grasp of what that would entail.

hahaha!...it entails increasing supply...pretty complicated eh?

401 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:03:27pm

re: #397 brookly red

/and in a late breaking story, a body believed to be that of the British coach was discovered early this morning in what police are calling a...

They didn't tell him about the voltage difference. It took the medics an hour just to get the smile off his face.

402 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:03:31pm

re: #377 windsagio

let me put it in bold, italics and caps for you.

Price should not be the issue we're concerned about here.

If I could a trillion updings. Thank you for getting that.

403 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:04:31pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

We're not talking about Oil as per AGW right now, but rather oil looking towards eventual shortages (per the discussion with SB), and oil leading to funding of enemies of the US and Israel (per LVQ).

404 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:04:43pm

re: #396 windsagio

Oh c'mon now, don't be coy :)

Charles doesn't like my methods as he made clear. I will therefore not go there.

405 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:05:09pm

re: #398 LudwigVanQuixote

It really really is not worth debating with you when you get like that. Simple statement.

If you support the oil industry, you empower our enemies and Israel's enemies. That is something so obvious that it boggles my mind that you can possibly argue otherwise.

I'm pro oil since I want gas for my car....do you own a car?....why does the simple stuff seem to elude you?...do you drive a car or not?...I see you use a computer

406 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:05:13pm

re: #359 Spare O'Lake

Wouldn't increasing the supply of oil do the same thing?

It could, but I'm not certain there are enough reserves available to have the level of impact I would like to see. Also, a lot of the untapped US reserves are in deep water and other areas where it is expensive to produce.

Thus new capacity depends on a high oil price just like the OPEC states do, and note that the US has only just been able to stabilise the supply with new production. This has been finished off by the MC252 leak and the resulting moratorium. US production will now fall and may take more than a decade to recover. The oil spill was a gift to OPEC.

The other difference being, below a certain price, OPEC can still pump profitably, whereas that price is much higher for likely new US reserves.

407 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:05:19pm

re: #400 albusteve

hahaha!...it entails increasing supply...pretty complicated eh?

Which if it even exists, and the oil companies spend billions each year looking for it and they have not found, would guarantee an eco-collapse when burned. In this context, re Israel, Israel will be one of the hardest hit nations of such a collapse.

408 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:05:24pm

re: #403 windsagio

What Cato said is totally true and a very good point, though.

409 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:05:32pm

re: #404 Bubblehead II

I might suggest then that you don't be passive aggressive about it then.

410 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:06:38pm

re: #408 Obdicut

Oh absolutely.

411 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

If I could a trillion updings. Thank you for getting that.

Nice try Ludwig, you were the one who was talking about lowering the price of oil so the Arabs wouldn't be able to afford to fund terror, etc.
Fail.

412 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:07:45pm

re: #411 Spare O'Lake

Nice try Ludwig, you were the one who was talking about lowering the price of oil so the Arabs wouldn't be able to afford to fund terror, etc.
Fail.

there you have it...

413 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:08:20pm

re: #405 albusteve

I'm pro oil since I want gas for my car...do you own a car?...why does the simple stuff seem to elude you?...do you drive a car or not?...I see you use a computer

I drive a hybrid and when electric vehicles come online, I will buy one of those. As my computer, electrons do not have tags on them. Electricity produced by wind, solar or nuclear works just as well. Please Steve the more condescending you get, the more stupid you sound. This is really basic stuff here.

Oil and coal are not what matters to preserving our lifestyle. Electricity is. We can profitably, renewablely and without foreign entanglement, make it by ways other than fossil fuels.

414 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:08:24pm

re: #394 windsagio

I don't think you have a proper grasp of what that would entail.

That my young friend is called a cheap dodge.

415 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:08:49pm

re: #403 windsagio

We're not talking about Oil as per AGW right now, but rather oil looking towards eventual shortages (per the discussion with SB), and oil leading to funding of enemies of the US and Israel (per LVQ).

The second issue is irrelevant because of the essential fungibility of oil. The first, because such shortages are so far in the future that we must convert to other energy sources before the advent of any serious shortages for the sake of staving off AGW. The benefits that will accrue when shortages hit are secondary to the main dictate.

416 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:08:49pm

re: #411 Spare O'Lake

Nice try Ludwig, you were the one who was talking about lowering the price of oil so the Arabs wouldn't be able to afford to fund terror, etc.
Fail.

Spare has your brain left you? I was the one talking about eliminating the oil market.

417 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:09:03pm

re: #409 windsagio

I might suggest then that you don't be passive aggressive about it then.

Doctor windsagio is on duty. ~~

418 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:09:25pm

re: #413 LudwigVanQuixote

In PDX you can choose to pay a surcharge for green power sources. Its shockingly popular (we use it!)

419 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:09:40pm

Sad day today..The Big 12 is going to melt down now...Nebraska will join the big 10 Friday and 6 other teams slated to go to the PAC 10 just reported on ESPN...
You know why? Like everything else in Sports it's all about the money..
The big 10 network is just rolling in cash...
Money..Money changes everything
You think you know what you want
But you don't a thing
Cause money changes everything

Bye Bye Big 12

420 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:09:50pm

re: #415 Cato the Elder

Damn straight.

421 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:10:00pm

re: #413 LudwigVanQuixote

I drive a hybrid and when electric vehicles come online, I will buy one of those. As my computer, electrons do not have tags on them. Electricity produced by wind, solar or nuclear works just as well. Please Steve the more condescending you get, the more stupid you sound. This is really basic stuff here.

Oil and coal are not what matters to preserving our lifestyle. Electricity is. We can profitably, renewablely and without foreign entanglement, make it by ways other than fossil fuels.

so you burn gas in your car and use plastic products....hypocrit

422 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:10:20pm

re: #415 Cato the Elder

I don't disagree with any of your points really, Cato.

423 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:11:08pm

re: #414 Spare O'Lake

Specifically the degree to which we would have to increase output to hurt them is beyond insane.

That better?

424 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:11:47pm

re: #421 albusteve

so you burn gas in your car and use plastic products...hypocrit

Steve, really, you are a total asshole.

425 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:12:02pm

re: #415 Cato the Elder

Oh I get what you're after!

My point is more, that given eventually we WILL run out, its never too late to start saving, especially since increasing production now will only fuel increased usage.

426 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:12:23pm

re: #409 windsagio

I might suggest then that you don't be passive aggressive about it then.

Then how should I go about it?

The (deleted) killed her parents in front of her and then the (deleted) killed her. I see no passsive/agessive behaviour here. I want the mofo dead.

427 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:12:29pm

re: #379 goddamnedfrank

I agree that Al Jazeera has a bias, I'm just not as bothered by that as some people, as I believe they tend to be both fairly honest and professional about it.

Really? Like when they openly fête terrorists?

428 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:13:23pm

re: #424 LudwigVanQuixote

Steve, really, you are a total asshole.

sure, I'd rather have you think me an asshole that to be a proven, blowhard hypocrit...chill out before you blow

429 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:13:40pm

re: #426 Bubblehead II

Slight misunderstanding of something on my part, I apologize :D

430 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:14:11pm

i thought the discussion
was about not using oil in order to not support terror?

431 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:14:24pm

re: #395 Charles

There's nothing "knee jerk" about it for me. Al Jazeera is well known throughout the Arab world as a front group for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Watch this video, from July 19, 2008, when Al Jazeera broadcast a hero's birthday party for released terrorist Samir Kuntar -- who kidnapped an Israeli family, shot a little girl's father in front of her eyes, then bashed the little girl's brains out with his rifle stock.


[Video]

I hadn't seen that before, bizarre and pathological.

-What's the warden's name?
-His name is ... Never mind.

You can tell, he's a little bit pissed off that they put his prison warden on his cake.

432 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:15:56pm

re: #430 KDS1

He didn't say 'not using oil'.

He said being 'pro-oil', which is substantially different.

433 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:15:57pm

re: #377 windsagio

let me put it in bold, italics and caps for you.

Price should not be the issue we're concerned about here.

Price most certainly is the issue when considering the income of the terror supporting OPEC states. While is may not be the issue with other motivations.

If all we succeed in doing is raising the price to $150 bbl, which is the direction we are going, then every penny of that increase which keeps the oil price above about $35 bbl directly finances the the Arab/Iranian war machine. A "solution" that only results in them selling all their oil at a greatly inflated price is not a solution this problem.

434 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:16:14pm

re: #429 windsagio

Slight misunderstanding of something on my part, I apologize :D

Understood and accepted. It happens.

435 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:16:32pm

re: #428 albusteve

sure, I'd rather have you think me an asshole that to be a proven, blowhard hypocrit...chill out before you blow

NO Steve, I can't very well buy an electric car that does not yet exist that I can afford. Plastics are not the issue as far as emissions are concerned compared to burning the fossil fuels outright. The only one blowing anything is the flatulence that comes when you make bullshit up.

Really, get a grip and stop with the nonsense.

436 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:17:14pm

re: #432 windsagio

He didn't say 'not using oil'.

He said being 'pro-oil', which is substantially different.

really?...maybe you can answer this then...what exactly is "pro oil"?....ludwig refuses to define his own term

437 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:18:06pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

Spare has your brain left you? I was the one talking about eliminating the oil market.

Perhaps I don't understand how that would work in the real world. Please explain? It sounds to me about as practical as a wish to eliminate violence by praying for the disappearance of firearms.

438 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:19:17pm

re: #435 LudwigVanQuixote

NO Steve, I can't very well buy an electric car that does not yet exist that I can afford. Plastics are not the issue as far as emissions are concerned compared to burning the fossil fuels outright. The only one blowing anything is the flatulence that comes when you make bullshit up.

Really, get a grip and stop with the nonsense.

you use plenty of oil...it's dripping off you as you post post post...why your carbon footprint just calling people names here is the size of Utah...and what the hell is "pro oil'?

439 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:19:52pm

re: #436 albusteve

really?...maybe you can answer this then...what exactly is "pro oil"?...ludwig refuses to define his own term

well that is easy... any use of oil that does not directly benefit him.

(steps into bunker, calls for pizza, locks door)

440 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:21:29pm

re: #437 Cato the Elder

Perhaps I don't understand how that would work in the real world. Please explain? It sounds to me about as practical as a wish to eliminate violence by praying for the disappearance of firearms.

dreamers, idealists and all around kooks...apparently their real world is the internet

441 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:21:47pm

re: #437 Cato the Elder

Perhaps I don't understand how that would work in the real world. Please explain? It sounds to me about as practical as a wish to eliminate violence by praying for the disappearance of firearms.

/ darn, has anyone seen my Ruger? it just up & disappeared...

442 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:22:24pm

re: #439 brookly red

Well I can only speak for myself.

To me it means, 'pushing a pro extraction/pro-corporate (as applies to those corporations) agenda'.

443 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:22:31pm

re: #441 brookly red

/ darn, has anyone seen my Ruger? it just up & disappeared...

It done got Raptured!

444 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:23:11pm

re: #439 brookly red

What a stupid thing to say.

Haven't you guys gotten tired of Ludwig-baiting yet? What is the attraction?

It's clear what Ludwig meant by 'pro-oil'. It's not a damn mystery. It's not like he hasn't made his positions massively clear in the past.

Right now, you can't avoid using some amount of oil (or coal)-based energy. You can minimize the use of it. That's not being 'pro-oil'.

Someone who thinks the solution to our energy problems is more offshore drilling, is pro-oil. As an example.

And Israel really is hurt by our dependence on oil, and Israel really will be hurt by climate change, as well.

445 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:23:40pm

re: #395 Charles

There's nothing "knee jerk" about it for me. Al Jazeera is well known throughout the Arab world as a front group for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Watch this video, from July 19, 2008, when Al Jazeera broadcast a hero's birthday party for released terrorist Samir Kuntar -- who kidnapped an Israeli family, shot a little girl's father in front of her eyes, then bashed the little girl's brains out with his rifle stock.


[Video]

There is no difference between celebrating the birthday of Samir Kuntar or celebrating the birthday of the widow of the widow and mother of the man and child he killed.

To say there is makes you a bigot.

//

446 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:23:55pm

AT&T's Gaping Hole Exposes 114,000 iPad 3G Buyers' Email Addresses

In what is one of the biggest leaks of emails in recent history, a group called Goatse Security has published the personal emails of 114,067 iPad 3G purchasers according to Gawker. The emails were obtained in what appears to be a legal fashion by querying a public interface that AT&T accidentally left exposed.

The names of victims immediately draw attention to the story. Among them are New York Times Co. CEO Janet Robinson, Diane Sawyer of ABC News, film mogul Harvey Weinstein, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and even White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. A number of CEOs, CFOs, and CTOs also had their emails exposed by the leak.

Additionally, a number of the email addresses exposed were from high-ranking military officials or DARPA researchers. Among these was William Eldredge, who "commands the largest operational B-1 [strategic bomber] group in the U.S. Air Force."

447 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:23:56pm

re: #437 Cato the Elder

Perhaps I don't understand how that would work in the real world. Please explain? It sounds to me about as practical as a wish to eliminate violence by praying for the disappearance of firearms.

Well to be specific, I mean the burning of oil and coal for electrical generation and transportation. We can eliminate that actually very easily by building a smart grid, deploying wind technology, nuclear power and solar as a supplement.

Again, look at the Danish wind program.

21% of their power, first world nation, and they created 200,000 jobs doing it. that's 200,000 jobs in Denmark and contemplate the size of their population compared to ours. It is very doable and other people are doing it right now as we speak. So are the Germans and the Israelis.

We should do it too.

[Link: ens.dk...]

448 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:24:04pm

re: #443 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It done got Raptured!

oh no... it just slipped between the cushions, all good.

449 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:24:36pm

re: #419 HoosierHoops

Sad day today..The Big 12 is going to melt down now...Nebraska will join the big 10 Friday and 6 other teams slated to go to the PAC 10 just reported on ESPN...
You know why? Like everything else in Sports it's all about the money..
The big 10 network is just rolling in cash...
Money..Money changes everything
You think you know what you want
But you don't a thing
Cause money changes everything

Bye Bye Big 12

Go Big 10!!

(Hi HHoops!)

450 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:25:14pm

re: #444 Obdicut

What a stupid thing to say.

Haven't you guys gotten tired of Ludwig-baiting yet? What is the attraction?

It's clear what Ludwig meant by 'pro-oil'. It's not a damn mystery. It's not like he hasn't made his positions massively clear in the past.

Right now, you can't avoid using some amount of oil (or coal)-based energy. You can minimize the use of it. That's not being 'pro-oil'.

Someone who thinks the solution to our energy problems is more offshore drilling, is pro-oil. As an example.

And Israel really is hurt by our dependence on oil, and Israel really will be hurt by climate change, as well.

I was not Ludwig baiting, I was Ludwig snarking... f'en chill out.

451 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:25:31pm

re: #436 albusteve

really?...maybe you can answer this then...what exactly is "pro oil"?...ludwig refuses to define his own term

Pro - oil is anything that expands the burning of fossil fuels, in this case oil.

452 allegro  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:26:06pm

re: #435 LudwigVanQuixote

Plastics are not the issue as far as emissions are concerned compared to burning the fossil fuels outright.

Now, the issue is emissions? I thought it was the purchasing of oil from Arab nations. If that is still the topic, then plastics are very much at issue. They are made from petroleum. The power to make them and extrude them into usable forms requires energy that is most probably fossil fuel energy. The trucks that transport them to the store and to your home requires petroleum energy.

453 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:26:30pm

re: #444 Obdicut

What a stupid thing to say.

Stop insulting posters with your trolling. Asshole.

454 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:26:59pm

re: #444 Obdicut

What a stupid thing to say.

Haven't you guys gotten tired of Ludwig-baiting yet? What is the attraction?

It's clear what Ludwig meant by 'pro-oil'. It's not a damn mystery. It's not like he hasn't made his positions massively clear in the past.

Right now, you can't avoid using some amount of oil (or coal)-based energy. You can minimize the use of it. That's not being 'pro-oil'.

Someone who thinks the solution to our energy problems is more offshore drilling, is pro-oil. As an example.

And Israel really is hurt by our dependence on oil, and Israel really will be hurt by climate change, as well.

oohhh!...I see now, it's not that one uses oil, it's how much one uses...got it

455 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:27:34pm

re: #453 Bagua

This echolalia thing is really weird.

456 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:28:14pm

re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote

Pro - oil is anything that expands the burning of fossil fuels, in this case oil.

I'm pro oil...I drive a car and use plastic products...
oh, and I hate Israel but love terrorists....it's all intentional

457 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:28:30pm

re: #455 windsagio

This echolalia thing is really weird.

You are weird, very weird.

458 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:28:39pm

re: #446 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In what is one of the biggest leaks of emails in recent history, a group called Goatse Security has published the personal emails of 114,067 iPad 3G purchasers according to Gawker. The emails were obtained in what appears to be a legal fashion by querying a public interface that AT&T accidentally left exposed.

*facepalm*

459 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:28:47pm

re: #453 Bagua

Stop insulting posters with your trolling. Asshole.

Instant irony award.

460 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:28:57pm

re: #455 windsagio

This echolalia thing is really weird.

yeah the tortillas get so soggy...

461 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:29:00pm

re: #453 Bagua

Stop insulting posters with your trolling. Asshole.

the namecallers are out...nice people eh?

462 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:29:17pm

Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn't about security

in response to a lawsuit by Gisha, an Israeli human rights group, the Israeli government explained the blockade as an exercise of the right of economic warfare.

"A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using 'economic warfare,' " the government said.

McClatchy obtained the government's written statement from Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, which sued the government for information about the blockade. The Israeli high court upheld the suit, and the government delivered its statement earlier this year.

Sari Bashi, the director of Gisha, said the documents prove that Israel isn't imposing its blockade for its stated reasons, but rather as collective punishment for the Palestinian population of Gaza. Gisha focuses on Palestinian rights.

463 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:29:29pm

re: #454 albusteve

oohhh!...I see now, it's not that one uses oil, it's how much one uses...got it

Well... yeah. That's what conservation means; using the least possible of critical resources, while working to move from independence from them.

464 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:19pm

re: #459 Obdicut

Instant irony award.

Instant asshole response. Fuck you you judgemental toad. You get what you give.

465 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:31pm

Lizards, I am now out of here. See my previous

466 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:40pm

re: #444 Obdicut

What a stupid thing to say.

Haven't you guys gotten tired of Ludwig-baiting yet? What is the attraction?

It's clear what Ludwig meant by 'pro-oil'. It's not a damn mystery. It's not like he hasn't made his positions massively clear in the past.

Right now, you can't avoid using some amount of oil (or coal)-based energy. You can minimize the use of it. That's not being 'pro-oil'.

Someone who thinks the solution to our energy problems is more offshore drilling, is pro-oil. As an example.

And Israel really is hurt by our dependence on oil, and Israel really will be hurt by climate change, as well.

Waaa.... waaaa..... waaaaaa...... waaaaa..... Thread Police... here comes the Thread Police again....

467 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:46pm

re: #461 albusteve

the namecallers are out...nice people eh?

I don't really mind Bagua calling me an asshole, Steve, but thank you for coming to my defense.

468 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:53pm

re: #457 Bagua

Well played!

Seriously tho', there's this strange tendency to echo back anything bad that's said. Ex: Someone accuses someone else of "baiting", you call them a troll. Someone uses the word 'tribal', and people start using it back. Just odd to me.

469 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:30:56pm

re: #463 Obdicut

Well... yeah. That's what conservation means; using the least possible of critical resources, while working to move from independence from them.

how goreing , err I mean boring

470 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:02pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn't about security

In other words, War is by definition collective punishment. Why didn't anybody notice for the past few millenia (at least)?

471 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:13pm

I feel love in the air...can you feel it?

472 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:47pm

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

See an opportunity, eh? :p

473 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:49pm

re: #471 darthstar

I feel love in the air...can you feel it?

No... you fucking crazy?

474 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:49pm

re: #470 Joo-LiZ

In other words, War is by definition collective punishment. Why didn't anybody notice for the past few millenia (at least)?

I hope a sarc tag wasn't necessary.

475 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:51pm

re: #463 Obdicut

Well... yeah. That's what conservation means; using the least possible of critical resources, while working to move from independence from them.

I'll bet you use up five times the energy I do...just a guess

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:53pm

re: #419 HoosierHoops

Sad day today..The Big 12 is going to melt down now...Nebraska will join the big 10 Friday and 6 other teams slated to go to the PAC 10 just reported on ESPN...
You know why? Like everything else in Sports it's all about the money..
The big 10 network is just rolling in cash...
Money..Money changes everything
You think you know what you want
But you don't a thing
Cause money changes everything

Bye Bye Big 12

Why would Nebraska want to keep playing Texas and Oklahoma? Their program ain't coming back to its old glory... They sure as hell ain't going to the SEC...

477 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:31:56pm

re: #467 Obdicut

I don't really mind Bagua calling me an asshole, Steve, but thank you for coming to my defense.

Moron, he is agreeing with me. Only a dishonest troll would put words in another posters mouth. You.

478 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:32:29pm

re: #472 windsagio

See an opportunity, eh? :p

Opportunity... naw... more like a gift.

479 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:32:41pm

re: #458 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*facepalm*

I find that name to be AWESOME.

My team discovered a new virus once and Symantec allowed us to name it. No one there noticed what Eparssa spelled backwards until after it had gone into worldwide distribution.

480 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:32:43pm

re: #471 darthstar

You changed your thingy back!

481 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:32:46pm

re: #471 darthstar

I feel love in the air...can you feel it?

i'm not against a good man-hug from time to time...

482 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:32:47pm

re: #449 Aceofwhat?

Go Big 10!!

(Hi HHoops!)

Hiya Ace! Hope you are well....
Charles had two threads up last night for the Lakers-Celtics Finals...
I hate the Lakers with all my heart my whole life.. But I have the deepest respect for Fisher as a player and a man and a father...He has real Character and leadership...
I still hate the Laker.. Heck I'm still bitter about Magic
:)

483 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:33:03pm

re: #458 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*facepalm*

Glad I'm not the only one that caught that.

Worst thing about this story will be people Google that phrase.

WARNING: Nobody here google that phrase. Please. Please.

484 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:33:26pm

re: #323 LudwigVanQuixote

You are on a roll, today, Sir!

485 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:33:31pm

Great, more flaming. I'll just go back to sending out resumes. Let me know when the skirmish ends.

486 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:33:32pm

re: #453 Bagua

Stop insulting posters with your trolling. Asshole.


yeah you know because Obdicut hasn't proved himself to be a consistently good poster with loads of information, critical thinking and considered discussion or anything

The problem with the culture here is you guys call everyone trolls when they deviate from the Accepted Parameters of Lizards Who have Been Here a While. I got called a troll dozens and dozens of times when I first came here because I Dared Disagree With Lizards About Things And Am Also a Dirty Hippie Liberal. Windy's a troll, I'm a troll, Ob is a troll, Darth is a troll, we're all trolls in our troll cave and you have to ask three of our questions before you can get across the bridge.

487 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:33:58pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Israel expanded its list slightly Wednesday to include soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy, said Palestinian liaison official Raed Fattouh, who coordinates the flow of goods into Gaza with Israel.

Well, shit...what the hell are they bitching about? They're letting shaving cream in now. Sheesh...ungrateful bastards.

488 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:34:18pm

re: #467 Obdicut

I don't really mind Bagua calling me an asshole, Steve, but thank you for coming to my defense.

I didn't...I'm implicating you as being rude and judgmental

489 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:34:40pm

re: #486 WindUpBird

I'm less a troll, more a sockpuppet.

490 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:34:49pm

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why would Nebraska want to keep playing Texas and Oklahoma? Their program ain't coming back to its old glory... They sure as hell ain't going to the SEC...

the big 10 offers more academic prestige, a bigger stage, and more money.

491 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:34:59pm

re: #483 Obdicut

Glad I'm not the only one that caught that.

Worst thing about this story will be people Google that phrase.

WARNING: Nobody here google that phrase. Please. Please.

also may want to stay away from occurences in bathtubs that have been documented through photography. :D

492 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:01pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

Great, more flaming. I'll just go back to sending out resumes. Let me know when the skirmish ends.

welcome back my friends to the show that never ends, were so glad you could attend- come inside come inside.

493 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:02pm

re: #470 Joo-LiZ

In other words, War is by definition collective punishment. Why didn't anybody notice for the past few millenia (at least)?

"So we elect terrorists, give them political, financial, material and spiritual support and then we have to face repercussions for our choices? WTF is that shit?"

494 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:16pm

re: #484 Floral Giraffe

You are on a roll, today, Sir!

Hi You..Congrads on the win last night
/That hurts to say

495 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:28pm

re: #374 Spare O'Lake

And then again, don't forget your friendly neighbour to the north which is practically choking on proven oil reserves.

The reserves you claim we are choking on are in the tar sands. Their extraction is an environmental nightmare that consumes enormous amounts of water and natural gas.
After mining, the sites are unproductive toxic wasteland.

496 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:46pm

re: #452 allegro

Now, the issue is emissions? I thought it was the purchasing of oil from Arab nations. If that is still the topic, then plastics are very much at issue. They are made from petroleum. The power to make them and extrude them into usable forms requires energy that is most probably fossil fuel energy. The trucks that transport them to the store and to your home requires petroleum energy.

Ohhh don't get me wrong.

If we had as a primary grid source, nuclear wind and solar, the energy to make plastics, or for that matter, to synthesize petroleum from scratch for making plastics, would be available.

My discussion assumes that we switch energy sources.

I wanted to stick to the Arab connection but the resident troll shifted it to some stance that if you use any product derived from these chemicals under any circumstance you are a somehow pro-oil. Being pro- oil means being for maintaining the status quo in energy production and continuing our dependence on it as a society. I am clearly arguing to remove that dependence.

Steve is just being willfully dense. I should have know better than to respond to him at all.

497 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:35:48pm

re: #468 windsagio

Well played!

Seriously tho', there's this strange tendency to echo back anything bad that's said. Ex: Someone accuses someone else of "baiting", you call them a troll. Someone uses the word 'tribal', and people start using it back. Just odd to me.

Thank you. And yes, I stand up to bullies and fight fire with fire. Others are too polite. Call me a fireman.

You may call it "strange", but I find your continual attempts to describe people here as "strange" and "passive aggressive" and "bigots" and so forth weird and dishonest. At least I'm honest with my anger, you hide yours.

498 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:04pm

re: #490 Aceofwhat?

Lol, "Big 2 Little 8".

Some day the conferences will be normalized, and rankings will mean slightly more than nothing.

499 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:04pm

re: #480 windsagio

You changed your thingy back!

I'm going red, white and blue for the World Cup. Gotta wave that flag for my team!

500 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:18pm

re: #487 darthstar

Well, shit...what the hell are they bitching about? They're letting shaving cream in now. Sheesh...ungrateful bastards.

Its only a matter of time before they start setting up Pringle can mortars.

501 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:33pm

re: #497 Bagua

Thank you. And yes, I stand up to bullies and fight fire with fire. Others are too polite. Call me a fireman.

You may call it "strange", but I find your continual attempts to describe people here as "strange" and "passive aggressive" and "bigots" and so forth weird and dishonest. At least I'm honest with my anger, you hide yours.


The thing is, he's being as honest as you are. you just don't like how he expresses himself.

502 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:45pm

re: #477 Bagua

Moron, he is agreeing with me. Only a dishonest troll would put words in another posters mouth. You.

Bagua, it was a moment of light humor to gently point out that you're name-calling. I didn't, actually, call Brookly stupid. I don't think he is stupid. I do think what he said was stupid, and I do think the various baiting of Ludwig that occurs is stupid.

It was an ill-considered choice of words on my part, since it wasn't clear enough that I meant the statement and not the person, and I regret that. But it doesn't justify your response.

Everyone Puppy Hug.

[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

503 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:36:58pm

re: #470 Joo-LiZ

In other words, War is by definition collective punishment. Why didn't anybody notice for the past few millenia (at least)?

The lefty "peace activists" pretend that you can avoid collective punishment, though. However, I see collective punishment of Gaza as entirely appropriate.

504 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:00pm

re: #484 Floral Giraffe

You are on a roll, today, Sir!

Thank you!

505 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:11pm

re: #500 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its only a matter of time before they start setting up Pringle can mortars.

Or throwing shaving-cream pies in the faces of others.

506 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:23pm

re: #496 LudwigVanQuixote

Get a chatbot. Seriously :)

507 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:44pm

re: #490 Aceofwhat?

the big 10 offers more academic prestige, a bigger stage, and more money.

The cable channel big ten network is rolling in cash..The execs are rolling around in their beds naked in 100 dollar bills..
It's only about the money..IMO

508 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:53pm

re: #486 WindUpBird

Nope, trolling is clearly defined here and even posters who otherwise post good information can be trolls when they engage in this behaviour. If they consistently do it to inflame people, they are trolling. They do not have to do it all the time.

509 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:37:54pm

re: #502 Obdicut

That's OK, I do actually, in reality, think that Steve is stupid. I also think he is immoral and crass.

510 allegro  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:06pm

re: #496 LudwigVanQuixote

If we had as a primary grid source, nuclear wind and solar, the energy to make plastics, or for that matter, to synthesize petroleum from scratch for making plastics, would be available.

My discussion assumes that we switch energy sources.

Ah, I see. Never mind. :)

511 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:06pm

re: #462 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn't about security

I suppose firing rockets into populated areas is a very individual punishment?

512 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:31pm

re: #506 windsagio

Get a chatbot. Seriously :)

If you love your chatbot, set it free. If it doesn't come back to you, stalk it.

513 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:43pm

re: #502 Obdicut

Bagua, it was a moment of light humor to gently point out that you're name-calling. I didn't, actually, call Brookly stupid. I don't think he is stupid. I do think what he said was stupid, and I do think the various baiting of Ludwig that occurs is stupid.

It was an ill-considered choice of words on my part, since it wasn't clear enough that I meant the statement and not the person, and I regret that. But it doesn't justify your response.

Everyone Puppy Hug.

[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

you talk to much...you, like others here, think that the more words you post, the more intelligent you are

514 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:44pm

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

I hadn't seen that before, bizarre and pathological./blockquote>

Yeah...i don't think they're doing as good of a job as Reuters or Fox. Call me knee-jerk...

515 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:38:59pm

re: #497 Bagua

More echoing :D

We had this 'people never admit their anger' convo over the weekend.

The problem is, since we're being meta, you don't stand up for people being targeted, you stand up for People on your side.

And that makes all the difference.

516 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:39:18pm

re: #508 Bagua

Nope, trolling is clearly defined here and even posters who otherwise post good information can be trolls when they engage in this behaviour. If they consistently do it to inflame people, they are trolling. They do not have to do it all the time.

I don't think it is clearly defined, else I wouldn't have been called a troll so many times in my first few weeks here.

517 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:39:38pm

re: #502 Obdicut

Don't troll and I'm as sweet as any puppy. It is simple. Your choice. If I thought you were stupid I'd not hold you responsible, but your know what you do when you do it. The rest of the time you are a sweet puppy yourself.

518 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:40:37pm

re: #517 Bagua

Don't disagree with me and I'm as sweet as any puppy.

FixT

519 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:41:05pm

oops, I just realized we're in a thread death-spiral.


Damn

520 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:41:26pm

re: #494 HoosierHoops

*waves*
You'll win tomorrow night!

521 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:41:58pm

re: #517 Bagua

Don't troll and I'm as sweet as any puppy. It is simple. Your choice. If I thought you were stupid I'd not hold you responsible, but your know what you do when you do it. The rest of the time you are a sweet puppy yourself.

522 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:42:36pm

re: #498 windsagio

Lol, "Big 2 Little 8".

Some day the conferences will be normalized, and rankings will mean slightly more than nothing.

Heh.

What is your definition of 'normalized'?

523 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:42:52pm

re: #515 windsagio

More echoing :D

We had this 'people never admit their anger' convo over the weekend.

The problem is, since we're being meta, you don't stand up for people being targeted, you stand up for People on your side.

And that makes all the difference.

Of all the internet psychologists here you are the least qualified and the most fatuous. You hide your anger through a constant diarrhea of harassing posts. Seeking to anger others and sabotage their discussions. You are thus a classic passive-aggressive borderline personality whereas the rest of us just get mad from time to time.

524 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:42:55pm

re: #390 Spare O'Lake

Excuse me, yes it is. We were talking about getting the price of oil down enough to cripple the ME producers from having enough money to finance terror and arm themselves and their proxies to the teeth.

There is no way that that is possible. We get off the juice, we make it so the juice isn't necessary because we're using all our resources. We don't lower the price of the juice. Not possible.

525 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:42:57pm

re: #509 LudwigVanQuixote

That's OK, I do actually, in reality, think that Steve is stupid. I also think he is immoral and crass.

the thing is, it's a simple matter to stud up on the internet...for all your bravado it's likely you are a wimp...it's always a pissing contest when people disagree with you...if you were half a man you would not resort to the stuff you just posted...you are a net pussy, that cannot handle criticism at all and when you get kicked in the nuts it blows your mind

526 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:43:12pm

re: #503 Dark_Falcon

The lefty "peace activists" pretend that you can avoid collective punishment, though. However, I see collective punishment of Gaza as entirely appropriate.

A terrorist organization declares war on an entire nations right to exist, and yet every attempt to fight them is declared inhumane or illegal.

Wage a conventional war? Oh, but they're only freedom fighters, not equipped to fight that way, its so unfair.

Target enemy leadership? You're assassinating people without trials

Run standard counter insurgent operations? Oh, you're an occupying force, provoking the peaceful Gazans.

Embargo/Blockade? Oh thats collective punishment.

Getting so very fucking tired of the terrorist apologists.

527 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:43:19pm

re: #523 Bagua

Of all the internet psychologists here you are the least qualified and the most fatuous. You hide your anger through a constant diarrhea of harassing posts. Seeking to anger others and sabotage their discussions. You are thus a classic passive-aggressive borderline personality whereas the rest of us just get mad from time to time.

You just don't like him. ;-)

528 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:43:36pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

Great, more flaming. I'll just go back to sending out resumes. Let me know when the skirmish ends.

It's the chest-thumping, "I'm the alpha male 'round here!", portion of the day.

529 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:43:44pm

re: #519 windsagio

oops, I just realized we're in a thread death-spiral.

Damn

Five to one, baby, one in five.
No one here gets out alive, now.
You get yours, baby, I'll get mine.
Gonna make it, baby, if we try.

The old get old, and the young get stronger.
May take a week, and it may take longer.
They got the guns, but we got the numbers.
Gonna win yeah, we're taking over.
Come on!

530 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:43:56pm

re: #525 albusteve

the thing is, it's a simple matter to stud up on the internet...for all your bravado it's likely you are a wimp...it's always a pissing contest when people disagree with you...if you were half a man you would not resort to the stuff you just posted...you are a net pussy, that cannot handle criticism at all and when you get kicked in the nuts it blows your mind

Like I said, I think he's stupid, crass and immoral, and he never fails to prove me correct.

531 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:44:14pm

re: #517 Bagua

Bagua, I stand by everything I've said. I find Ludwig-baiting stupid. I don't think what you've called me is accurate, fair, politic, or in keeping with the behavior that you yourself call for quite often. And that's the last I'll say on it in this thread. I do not know why you think that you understand my motives. I think that Ludwig gets a lot of undeserved shit for having held an unpopular position for a long time, and for not being exactly the most cuddly muppet about it, either.

And that's the last I'll say on it in this thread.

532 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:44:21pm

BBL.
Homework to finish.
LGF is more fun.

533 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:44:27pm

re: #431 goddamnedfrank

I hadn't seen that before, bizarre and pathological.

Indeed it is. Maybe you see why it's my opinion that Al Jazeera should be shunned by US networks.

And that's far from the only example of this kind of thing on Al Jazeera; just one of the worst.

534 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:44:45pm

re: #521 darthstar

[Video]

You are an honest guy darthstar, I've seen you apologise when you realised you were being inflammatory, as you did yesterday.

535 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:44:47pm

re: #507 HoosierHoops

The cable channel big ten network is rolling in cash..The execs are rolling around in their beds naked in 100 dollar bills..
It's only about the money..IMO

All big10 schools are AAU schools...they're not inviting anyone who isn't. So it's about money, but not at the expense of academics.

536 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:45:09pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I find that name to be AWESOME.

My team discovered a new virus once and Symantec allowed us to name it. No one there noticed what Eparssa spelled backwards until after it had gone into worldwide distribution.

LMAO

537 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:45:20pm

re: #522 Aceofwhat?

No more powerhouse schools in joker conferences (lol, big 10). Also, no Div I schools that don't deserve to be in it.

It might be a west coast thing. Too many memories of pac-10 schools getting screwed because there were too many good football schools.

538 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:45:27pm

re: #534 Bagua

You are an honest guy darthstar, I've seen you apologise when you realised you were being inflammatory, as you did yesterday.

A mere moment of weakness, I'm sure...I'll try not to let it happen again. :)

539 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:45:37pm

re: #527 WindUpBird

You just don't like him. ;-)

No way, Windsagio is one of my favourites.

540 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:45:44pm

re: #526 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A terrorist organization declares war on an entire nations right to exist, and yet every attempt to fight them is declared inhumane or illegal.

Wage a conventional war? Oh, but they're only freedom fighters, not equipped to fight that way, its so unfair.

Target enemy leadership? You're assassinating people without trials

Run standard counter insurgent operations? Oh, you're an occupying force, provoking the peaceful Gazans.

Embargo/Blockade? Oh thats collective punishment.

Getting so very fucking tired of the terrorist apologists.

Me too. Getting rid of scum like Hamas is ugly, dirty work and it cannot be made neat and clean. I'm sorry that innocents must suffer but it beats letting the totalitarians win.

541 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:46:14pm

re: #533 Charles

I do think that, as I said before, Al Jazeera bizarrely represents the most unfiltered news that most of the people in the Middle East get. However, I'm under no illusions that they're themselves good; just that they're not pure government propaganda, as a lot of the news sources in the ME are.

542 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:46:18pm

re: #520 Floral Giraffe

*waves*
You'll win tomorrow night!

Hi! If we don't win..It's all over..The Lakers will be World Championships for the second year in a row...
Will you go to the parade and take pictures for us?

543 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:46:24pm

re: #538 darthstar

A mere moment of weakness, I'm sure...I'll try not to let it happen again. :)

Heh.
Better put a sarc tag on that quick, or you'll be accused of . . . trolling.
/

544 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:47:24pm

re: #531 Obdicut

Bagua, I stand by everything I've said. I find Ludwig-baiting stupid. ...

I am not baiting Ludwig liar, I was supporting him in this debate.

545 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:48:12pm

re: #526 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A terrorist organization declares war on an entire nations right to exist, and yet every attempt to fight them is declared inhumane or illegal.

Wage a conventional war? Oh, but they're only freedom fighters, not equipped to fight that way, its so unfair.

Target enemy leadership? You're assassinating people without trials

Run standard counter insurgent operations? Oh, you're an occupying force, provoking the peaceful Gazans.

Embargo/Blockade? Oh thats collective punishment.

Getting so very fucking tired of the terrorist apologists.

Consider that another one worthy of a gigading up.

546 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:48:38pm

re: #544 Bagua

Dude, going back over this whole thread, I have one piece of advice for you.

"Amphetamine psychosis is not your friend."

547 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:48:38pm

re: #544 Bagua

I am not baiting Ludwig liar, I was supporting him in this debate.

Nor did I accuse you of baiting Ludwig, Bagua. If you are under that impression, please review what I said. I never accused you of baiting Ludwig in this thread. The "you guys" referred to Steve and Brookly, not you.

548 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:49:01pm

EoZ found an excellent video. Mock interview with a member of Hamas' "political" wing.


549 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:49:08pm

re: #544 Bagua

I am not baiting Ludwig liar, I was supporting him in this debate.

Yes you were.

However, I think Obdi was referring to Stevos impotent attempts to start a fight.

550 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:49:31pm

Let's see if we can make some happy talk... the girlfriend an I went on a drive around the neighborhood today... slipped over to Evergreen, went to a 1:00 showing of "Splice"... walked out of it 20 minutes in... I think they were making up the dialog impromptu while the camera was running...

Stopped by "Flip Flop Beads" in Pine Junction... dude there had a 8 inch by 6 inch raw slab of what appears to be Parrot Wing Chrysocolla... really nice dark green swirls mixed in with some black dendrite and smokey quartz... should cut a good number of pendants.

I found a small artist coop shop here in Conifer called "Luna's Mandala" and showed her some of my chokers and lapidary work, and she is going to give me some room in one of her showcases to sell my jewelry... good to be able to recommend interested person to a shop, better than selling out of my pockets.

So,,, what are we talking about?

551 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:49:48pm

re: #533 Charles

Indeed it is. Maybe you see why it's my opinion that Al Jazeera should be shunned by US networks.

And that's far from the only example of this kind of thing on Al Jazeera; just one of the worst.

I have always been happy for your research.

552 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:50:07pm

re: #530 LudwigVanQuixote

Like I said, I think he's stupid, crass and immoral, and he never fails to prove me correct.

like I said, you are a very insecure person, afraid you won't be taken seriously, which I usually don't...and shouldn't you be working on your latest treatises?....I'm breathless waiting to become enlightened

553 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:50:11pm

re: #547 Obdicut

Nor did I accuse you of baiting Ludwig, Bagua. If you are under that impression, please review what I said. I never accused you of baiting Ludwig in this thread. The "you guys" referred to Steve and Brookly, not you.

And that's the last I'll say on it in this thread.

yeah what ever...

554 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:50:49pm

*Sits off to the side, bag of popcorn and fountain drink in hand, wearing 3D glasses*

555 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:50:51pm

re: #531 Obdicut

Bagua, I stand by everything I've said. I find Ludwig-baiting stupid. I don't think what you've called me is accurate, fair, politic, or in keeping with the behavior that you yourself call for quite often. And that's the last I'll say on it in this thread. I do not know why you think that you understand my motives. I think that Ludwig gets a lot of undeserved shit for having held an unpopular position for a long time, and for not being exactly the most cuddly muppet about it, either.

And that's the last I'll say on it in this thread.

556 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:50:55pm

re: #552 albusteve

like I said, you are a very insecure person, afraid you won't be taken seriously, which I usually don't...and shouldn't you be working on your latest treatises?...I'm breathless waiting to become enlightened

I should add impotent to the list :)

557 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:51:08pm

re: #528 reine.de.tout

It's the chest-thumping, "I'm the alpha male 'round here!", portion of the day.

i propose we solve this on the tennis court. last one standing is the alpha male;)

558 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:51:50pm

re: #555 albusteve

That is not saying Bagua was doing it, Steve. At all.

Sigh.

I'm going to go watch Black Adder.

559 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:52:34pm

Now, for a change up and promote good will, I will simply remark that Liz McClarnon is a woman I would not object to spending a weekend alone with in the Bahamas.

Image: liz-mcclarnon-1024x768-25167.jpg

560 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:52:43pm

re: #557 Aceofwhat?

i propose we solve this on the tennis court. last one standing is the alpha male;)

You realize that you didn't specify playing tennis, just being on a tennis court.

Bear cavalry, charge!

/And now I'm out.

561 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:52:59pm

re: #556 LudwigVanQuixote

I should add impotent to the list :)

as much as you'd like to, it only confirms my point

562 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:52:59pm

re: #537 windsagio

No more powerhouse schools in joker conferences (lol, big 10). Also, no Div I schools that don't deserve to be in it.

It might be a west coast thing. Too many memories of pac-10 schools getting screwed because there were too many good football schools.

Bad year to talk like that, my friend. The pac10 got their asses kicked last bowl season, and it's not going to get any better this season.

The big 10 went 4-0 against top25 teams in the 2009-2010 bowls. They'll be fine;)

563 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:54:31pm

re: #562 Aceofwhat?

They USED to be good!

I always think of one season where Washington, Oregon, and Oregon state only lost to each other, but still got raped in the ratings (altho thats also eastcoast bias).

I admit the conference is in eclipse right now tho'.

564 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:54:37pm

re: #528 reine.de.tout

It's the chest-thumping, "I'm the alpha male 'round here!", portion of the day.

Yeah and to think it all started when someone said that supporting the oil economy supports Arab regimes that hate Israel... Such an outlandish statement! Surely such a thought must be challenged with the thumpiest of chests!

565 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:54:43pm

re: #556 LudwigVanQuixote

I should add impotent to the list :)

/ let's talk you through it...

melting ice caps... tea parties, Sarah Palin...

feeling any better?

566 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:55:19pm

39 dead in blast at Afghanistan wedding

A bombing at a wedding ceremony Wednesday in Afghanistan's Kandahar province killed 39 people and wounded 73 others, officials in the village of Nagaan said.

The International Security Assistance Force confirmed the bombing but had no information on casualties. They and Afghan forces have secured the area, they said.

567 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:56:02pm

re: #561 albusteve

as much as you'd like to, it only confirms my point

Steve, have you noticed me getting all cranky at your impotent attempts to pick a fight? Really?

I am so sorry that you felt the need to pick a fight and no one cared. I realize that must be a blow to your ego and all, but seriously, no one cares.

568 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:56:17pm

This is nice... Im sure some have seen this before

569 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:56:22pm

re: #447 LudwigVanQuixote

Well to be specific, I mean the burning of oil and coal for electrical generation and transportation. We can eliminate that actually very easily by building a smart grid, deploying wind technology, nuclear power and solar as a supplement.

Again, look at the Danish wind program.

21% of their power, first world nation, and they created 200,000 jobs doing it. that's 200,000 jobs in Denmark and contemplate the size of their population compared to ours. It is very doable and other people are doing it right now as we speak. So are the Germans and the Israelis.

We should do it too.

[Link: ens.dk...]

A few weeks ago I drove out on the 58 out from Bakersfield through past Tehachepi through Mojave and into godforsaken Palmdale. Approaching the Tehachapi Pass saw this huge wind farm along the entire ridge, spinning furiously. Past Tehachapi, into and through Mojave there were no wind generators to be seen, but I damn near got blown off the road. I think there's a whole lot of the country that is prime for wind farming.

570 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:56:23pm

re: #557 Aceofwhat?

i propose we solve this on the tennis court. last one standing is the alpha male;)

as we say in Brooklyn... alpha male don't make bail.

571 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:56:32pm

re: #565 brookly red

/ let's talk you through it...

melting ice caps... tea parties, Sarah Palin...

feeling any better?

Reason why you are picking a fight now too?

572 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:57:13pm

re: #566 researchok

39 dead in blast at Afghanistan wedding

Doesn't it violate news agency policy to run a story about a wedding being bombed without blaming it on the US?

573 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:57:23pm

re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah and to think it all started when someone said that supporting the oil economy supports Arab regimes that hate Israel... Such an outlandish statement! Surely such a thought must be challenged with the thumpiest of chests!

if you thumped your chest, you'd fall over dead...do you actually wear argyle socks professor?

574 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:57:53pm

re: #549 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes you were.

.

I was baiting you by supporting your point? Agreeing with you is baiting you?

575 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:57:57pm

Probe: Erdogan knew Gaza flotilla would be violent

Files found on activists' laptops pointed to strong ties between the Islamist IHH movement and Turkey's prime minister.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan knew in advance that activists aboard a Gaza-bound aid flotilla planned to attack Israeli troops, Israeli intelligence officials have said.

576 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:58:04pm

re: #554 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*Sits off to the side, bag of popcorn and fountain drink in hand, wearing 3D glasses*

Amen Brother...I got the new laptop running Screen in Screen on the 73" Samsung waiting to see how this ends...
I'm just worried that I'm might post too many words like Odbi and get my nuts kicked...Do we get graded on a curve here? Can we get a thread just for insults? So the top ten and bottom ten archive is all insults?
/

577 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:58:27pm

re: #571 LudwigVanQuixote

Reason why you are picking a fight now too?

See your feeling better already... no fight, just poking fun at you. Your too damn serious sometimes.

578 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:58:41pm

re: #568 KDS1

This is nice... Im sure some have seen this before


[Video]

Yep. It's a real above-board gig they run there.

579 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:59:28pm

re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah and to think it all started when someone said that supporting the oil economy supports Arab regimes that hate Israel... Such an outlandish statement! Surely such a thought must be challenged with the thumpiest of chests!

I agree, supporting an economy that relies heavily on oil imports helps support Arab regimes that hate Israel.

We do need alternatives, phased in, so that people can be retrained for employment in those areas - what we do not need is this 6-month moratorium on domestic exploration.

Just my .02.

580 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:59:28pm

re: #567 LudwigVanQuixote

Steve, have you noticed me getting all cranky at your impotent attempts to pick a fight? Really?

I am so sorry that you felt the need to pick a fight and no one cared. I realize that must be a blow to your ego and all, but seriously, no one cares.

I didn't pick a fight nit wit, I asked you a question you couldn't answer so you called me a troll...I'm having my usual jolly time, call me names and you'll get it back it spades...don't you ever learn?

581 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:59:37pm

re: #559 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now, for a change up and promote good will, I will simply remark that Liz McClarnon is a woman I would not object to spending a weekend alone with in the Bahamas.

Image: liz-mcclarnon-1024x768-25167.jpg

...I'm sorry, what was the question?

582 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 3:59:42pm

re: #569 goddamnedfrank

A few weeks ago I drove out on the 58 out from Bakersfield through past Tehachepi through Mojave and into godforsaken Palmdale. Approaching the Tehachapi Pass saw this huge wind farm along the entire ridge, spinning furiously. Past Tehachapi, into and through Mojave there were no wind generators to be seen, but I damn near got blown off the road. I think there's a whole lot of the country that is prime for wind farming.


[Video]

There surely is. The biggest obstacle to using this available, comparatively cheap and economically stimulating resource is the NIMBY factor. We absolutely have to teach people the benefits of it and get it deployed ASAP. I think that if people realized just how much cheaper their power would be and how many jobs it would create they would be less likely to cry NIMBY. That is the largest issue in Britain as well. The tech is right here waiting to be used and people are simply too ignorant and foolish to look into it properly.

583 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:00:01pm

re: #574 Bagua

I was baiting you by supporting your point? Agreeing with you is baiting you?

NO you were supporting me. I saw that. Relax.

584 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:00:32pm

re: #547 Obdicut

Nor did I accuse you of baiting Ludwig, Bagua. If you are under that impression, please review what I said. I never accused you of baiting Ludwig in this thread. The "you guys" referred to Steve and Brookly, not you.

You directed that comment at me. Period. I'm not interested in your endless rationalisations. You have tried to bring up long dead arguments between me and Ludwig about a dozen times in recent months. I'm not interested.

585 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:00:36pm

re: #574 Bagua

I was baiting you by supporting your point? Agreeing with you is baiting you?

no, the full sentence would be "yes you were agreeing with me."

anyone else who's still angry needs to change their clothes...i'm leaving to play in about 5 minutes and you're all welcome to feel the wrath of the Babolat...

586 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:00:44pm

re: #576 HoosierHoops

Amen Brother...I got the new laptop running Screen in Screen on the 73" Samsung waiting to see how this ends...
I'm just worried that I'm might post too many words like Odbi and get my nuts kicked...Do we get graded on a curve here? Can we get a thread just for insults? So the top ten and bottom ten archive is all insults?
/

I'm about to haul out the dueling pistols and start making this all official-like. If nothing else, at least it'll be quicker.

587 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:00:57pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

Still have to hold my position on that tho'.

As much as it sucks for the people that work in the field, they have to prove they can stop another catastrophe effectively before we can let them get going again.

588 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:01:08pm

re: #275 Slumbering Behemoth

What would we synthesize rubber and plastic from? Lubricants?


Believe it or not, there's rubber trees. It can be done that way. As to plastic, we could use biologically based feedstock, or we could start from coal. The loss of oil would be a blow, but it would not spell game over.

589 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:01:20pm

re: #575 researchok

Probe: Erdogan knew Gaza flotilla would be violent

Well, obviously, this is a false story filled with manipulated photos and distorted facts, cunningly put together by Israeli intelligence, AND YOU FELL FOR IT.

/

Whoops, thought I was Christopher H there for a minute. I'm better now.

590 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:01:23pm

re: #576 HoosierHoops

Can we get a thread just for insults? So the top ten and bottom ten archive is all insults?
/

That is such a great idea. I always knew you were an idea man...

591 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:02:43pm

re: #587 windsagio

Still have to hold my position on that tho'.

As much as it sucks for the people that work in the field, they have to prove they can stop another catastrophe effectively before we can let them get going again.

I picked up two nice sized lapis "nuggets" too... already polished and drilled... make a nice choker...

592 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #581 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...I'm sorry, what was the question?

Sorry, I was distracted

Image: Liz-McClarnon.jpg

593 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:02:52pm

re: #587 windsagio

Still have to hold my position on that tho'.

As much as it sucks for the people that work in the field, they have to prove they can stop another catastrophe effectively before we can let them get going again.

Big difference between deep water well exploration and regular old existing shallow-water well pumping, i think...

594 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:01pm

re: #579 reine.de.tout

I agree, supporting an economy that relies heavily on oil imports helps support Arab regimes that hate Israel.
...

Be careful sweetheart, agreeing with Ludwig and supporting his position may be spun as "Ludwig-Baiting" on this thread.

595 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:27pm

re: #587 windsagio

Still have to hold my position on that tho'.

As much as it sucks for the people that work in the field, they have to prove they can stop another catastrophe effectively before we can let them get going again.

You can never prove in advance that a catastrophe cannot happen. You might be able to prove that the same exact concatenation of events would be manageable, but the next catastrophe will almost certainly be different in origin and outcome.

Taken to an extreme, the "precautionary principle" = paralysis.

596 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:35pm

re: #576 HoosierHoops

Amen Brother...I got the new laptop running Screen in Screen on the 73" Samsung waiting to see how this ends...
I'm just worried that I'm might post too many words like Odbi and get my nuts kicked...Do we get graded on a curve here? Can we get a thread just for insults? So the top ten and bottom ten archive is all insults?
/


now that is an asholeic idea :)

who's that?

597 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #575 researchok

Probe: Erdogan knew Gaza flotilla would be violent

Good reporting by Haaretz but it'll only make a difference in Israel and the US. The rest of the world will ignore it or call it "fabricated".

598 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:43pm

re: #592 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sorry, I was distracted

Image: Liz-McClarnon.jpg

...I'll be in my bunk.

599 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:48pm

re: #591 Walter L. Newton

I had an infatuation with that stuff for a whle when I was young (my grandfather had all the tools, even for cutting and such), but just didn't have the wherewithal to keep going.

600 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:03:56pm

re: #573 albusteve

if you thumped your chest, you'd fall over dead...do you actually wear argyle socks professor?

Oh wow, you are getting getting desperate. No Steve, I wear the skins of aging, irrelevant internet twits as condoms when I bang young and attractive women. It is after all a win win win. I win, she wins, and someone like you can finally be useful again.

601 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:04:08pm

re: #583 LudwigVanQuixote

NO you were supporting me. I saw that. Relax.

Thank you.

602 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:04:49pm

re: #594 Bagua

Be careful sweetheart, agreeing with Ludwig and supporting his position may be spun as "Ludwig-Baiting" on this thread.

Don't get touchy. I would rather talk policy than see flames.

603 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:05:03pm

re: #593 Aceofwhat?

Absolutely. If they can deal with accidents safely, while I might not like it, I can't really complain. (I still think we should save our oil :p)

604 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:05:28pm

re: #599 windsagio

I had an infatuation with that stuff for a whle when I was young (my grandfather had all the tools, even for cutting and such), but just didn't have the wherewithal to keep going.

I just thought I'd try to change the subject, since there seems to be a lot of "heat" on this thread. I get some sort of "inner peace" when I'm working with stone... maybe because of the age and the natural beauty of the products of this planet...

605 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:05:29pm

re: #597 Dark_Falcon

Good reporting by Haaretz but it'll only make a difference in Israel and the US. The rest of the world will ignore it or call it "fabricated".

Plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme.

606 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:05:49pm

re: #497 Bagua

Call me a fireman.

Well, ok. If you insist. Didn't you call windsagio weird a couple of posts ago?

607 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:06:10pm

re: #595 Cato the Elder

In my original post I said that another accident was 'inevitable', but I edited it out.

If we can't deal with a blowout at 5000 feet depth, we shouldn't be drilling at 5000 feet. Pretty straightforward, imo.

608 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:06:19pm

Alright, rumblers. I'm out to sweat gallons in the sticky Florida evening, to duel with a little green ball.

peace

609 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:06:30pm

re: #606 Nimed

But I am weird!

You guys have no idea ;)

610 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:07:06pm

re: #608 Aceofwhat?

Peace! Oklahoma (the school) can kiss my ass!

611 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:07:27pm

re: #606 Nimed

Well, ok. If you insist. Didn't you call windsagio weird a couple of posts ago?

Did you call him on what he said to instigate my observation?

612 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:08:06pm

re: #600 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh wow, you are getting getting desperate. No Steve, I wear the skins of aging, irrelevant internet twits as condoms when I bang young and attractive women. It is after all a win win win. I win, she wins, and someone like you can finally be useful again.

hahaha!...who gives a fuck?...what a dope you've turned out to be...now you're going to impress me with your locker room manhood?...you never got out much, nit wits like you were exposed decades ago...an attractive woman to you is probably someone's pet...go fuck yourself for god's sake and leave your sexual fantasies off the board

613 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:08:26pm

re: #609 windsagio

But I am weird!

You guys have no idea ;)

I have a good idea. ~"~

614 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:08:52pm

re: #611 Bagua

My observation was perfectly accurate tho'.

You have some odd posting habits when it comes to fighting :P

615 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:08:59pm

re: #587 windsagio

Still have to hold my position on that tho'.

As much as it sucks for the people that work in the field, they have to prove they can stop another catastrophe effectively before we can let them get going again.

It cannot be proven that another catastrophe can be avoided.
Not provable.

There are decades of historical data, where no incident occurred.
There is the investigation, which is showing, as details come out, that this incident was a result of human error, ignoring the well-known warning signs they were getting from this well beginning the day before the incident, as well as failure to follow normal processes and procedures for cementing this well.

And there is no way to "prove" that there will never be another human error.

616 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:09:33pm

re: #609 windsagio

But I am weird!

You guys have no idea ;)

Eh. I guess Bagu... er, fireman is right on this one.

617 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:09:42pm

re: #610 windsagio

Peace! Oklahoma (the school) can kiss my ass!

What? I moving there soon windy...Now I have to defend the Schools honor..And the moving trucks haven't even arrived...
Damn you Windy! Damn you!
/

618 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:10:10pm

re: #615 reine.de.tout

That is true, but I'm saying we should show we can fix it once it happens.

Apparently my post wasn't clear on that point.

619 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:10:12pm

re: #611 Bagua

Did you call him on what he said to instigate my observation?

JOKE! It was a joke, fireman. I just got here.

620 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:10:39pm

re: #617 HoosierHoops

You are dead to me.

(No idea why I hate OK, I should hate Washington State).

621 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:10:47pm

re: #550 Walter L. Newton

I went and saw some rough Turquoise for you but I think It's the wrong mine, too greenish tinted. Not that certain blue that I think you are looking for.

622 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:11:26pm

"He smites his chest," whispered Stubb, what's that for? methinks it rings most vast, but hollow."

-Herman Melville, Moby Dick

623 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:11:28pm

re: #589 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, obviously, this is a false story filled with manipulated photos and distorted facts, cunningly put together by Israeli intelligence, AND YOU FELL FOR IT.

/

Whoops, thought I was Christopher H there for a minute. I'm better now.

He's gone for the day. He's like Spar kling was on evolution threads; He only pops up when the thread is about his issue. When he does appear, he spews troll bile several times and gets downdinged before retreating. He's a sniper troll.

624 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:11:51pm

re: #395 Charles

There's nothing "knee jerk" about it for me. Al Jazeera is well known throughout the Arab world as a front group for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Ah yes, the Muslim Brotherhood. Masters of putting a smiley face on Islamism through front groups. Harry's Place has busted those creeps many times over the years.

625 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:12:13pm

re: #569 goddamnedfrank

I go up there after landscape shots. That is a wonderful stretch.

626 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:12:24pm

re: #620 windsagio

You are dead to me.

(No idea why I hate OK, I should hate Washington State).

Wanna have a flame war?
/

627 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:12:53pm

re: #626 HoosierHoops

I think flaming you would actually smudge my soul :)

628 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:14:52pm

re: #582 LudwigVanQuixote

There surely is. The biggest obstacle to using this available, comparatively cheap and economically stimulating resource is the NIMBY factor. We absolutely have to teach people the benefits of it and get it deployed ASAP. I think that if people realized just how much cheaper their power would be and how many jobs it would create they would be less likely to cry NIMBY. That is the largest issue in Britain as well. The tech is right here waiting to be used and people are simply too ignorant and foolish to look into it properly.

There's also misinformation out there about how noisy wind generators are. Now wind itself does make some noise, and wind generators do make enough noise to be a nuisance for those living close enough. But in the U.S. anyhow, there's plenty of room. In most cases, sites will be miles from any home. But if a few homeowners have to be bought out at prices that will buy them a bigger house in a similar neighborhood, pay it and go ahead with the project.

By me, a balance discussion of NIMBY issues...

629 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:16:13pm

re: #614 windsagio

My observation was perfectly accurate tho'.

You have some odd posting habits when it comes to fighting :P

Mine point is perfectly accurate, tho'

You have some odd posting habits. ~~

630 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #619 Nimed

JOKE! It was a joke, fireman. I just got here.

I did upding your joke mate.

631 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #629 Bagua

Mine point is perfectly accurate, tho'

You have some odd posting habits. ~~

agreed, a closet bigot who tries to deflect the blockade issue back onto the Israelis and we who support her...epic fail

632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:20:13pm
633 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:21:40pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay. This is fucking sweet...

I think I'm going to start posting that story every time people get all "Fighty McNasty".

634 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:23:19pm

re: #618 windsagio

That is true, but I'm saying we should show we can fix it once it happens.

Apparently my post wasn't clear on that point.

Absolutely true.
They were supposed to have a plan.
But they didn't, and it didn't even occur to BP to develop a plan once they realized, as they had to, that things about this well were outside the norm.

635 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:24:10pm

re: #602 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't get touchy. I would rather talk policy than see flames.

Me too, which is why I get mad at anybody trying to derail our discussion with reference to old misunderstandings which we have moved beyond.

Reducing the supply of oil money to our enemies is a priority I strongly support.

636 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:24:17pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay. This is fucking sweet...

She was a very special little girl and Simon was so touched when she sang for him. He was happy that he was able to do a special something on Saturday night to give her a few precious moments...

Only the good die young...
She is with the Lord now

637 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:25:16pm

Supper bell at The Secret Batcave™

Play nice everyone. Reuters is watching.

638 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:26:05pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wow.

639 allegro  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:29:33pm

re: #634 reine.de.tout

They were supposed to have a plan.
But they didn't, and it didn't even occur to BP to develop a plan once they realized, as they had to, that things about this well were outside the norm.

That it seems to be increasingly suspect that this "accident" was a profit-motive-shortcut- taking catastrophe with, as you point out, no plan to remediate, I can understand staking a long look at the practices of the industry. I would feel better with assurances that this was an isolated case and indeed "outside the norm".

640 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:29:58pm

re: #621 Rightwingconspirator

I went and saw some rough Turquoise for you but I think It's the wrong mine, too greenish tinted. Not that certain blue that I think you are looking for.

Thanks... I went to all three of my sources in the area this week (I have 3 days off) and I can't find any... but as I said above, I picked up a wonderful slab of what I suspect is Parrot Wing... what's so nice about it is that it's full of other matrix material besides the green agate, swirls of quartz, some stuff that looks like dirty pyrite, black dentritic material... a chaos of minerals.... all mixed into the dark green parrot color. Nice and hard too, the saw blade alone on the slab give it a semi-polish...

I just cut three pieces from it with the rock saw, and cut a large piece of turquoise into three pieces plus some misc. turquoise... I'm going to grind and polish tomorrow... I get some pictures for later.

641 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:35:35pm

re: #640 Walter L. Newton

Thanks... I went to all three of my sources in the area this week (I have 3 days off) and I can't find any... but as I said above, I picked up a wonderful slab of what I suspect is Parrot Wing... what's so nice about it is that it's full of other matrix material besides the green agate, swirls of quartz, some stuff that looks like dirty pyrite, black dentritic material... a chaos of minerals... all mixed into the dark green parrot color. Nice and hard too, the saw blade alone on the slab give it a semi-polish...

I just cut three pieces from it with the rock saw, and cut a large piece of turquoise into three pieces plus some misc. turquoise... I'm going to grind and polish tomorrow... I get some pictures for later.

You like abalone shell, Walter? It's not turquoise, but it sure polishes up pretty...and can be cut to shape.

Image: paua-abalone-polished.jpg

642 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:39:05pm

re: #641 darthstar

Image: paua-abalone-polished.jpg

Beautiful!

643 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:42:53pm

re: #641 darthstar

You like abalone shell, Walter? It's not turquoise, but it sure polishes up pretty...and can be cut to shape.

Image: paua-abalone-polished.jpg

Yes I do, and I have made some pieces with abalone... I have a supply of raw abalone here at home with my other raw material.

644 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #639 allegro

That it seems to be increasingly suspect that this "accident" was a profit-motive-shortcut- taking catastrophe with, as you point out, no plan to remediate, I can understand staking a long look at the practices of the industry. I would feel better with assurances that this was an isolated case and indeed "outside the norm".

That seems to be the general feeling here.

Now, that can be done without shutting down operations.
The MMS should have an inspector at each rig permanently, or rotating among several rigs weekly, with each rig getting at least twice-a-week visits for inspections.

That said, I believe it was an isolated case because there has been no other incident of this nature, caused for the reasons this one was caused by, out of hundreds of wells drilled over the past several DECADES. The folks in the biz knew exactly what went wrong, long before the details began trickling out in the media. And they knew that it went wrong because of bad decisions made by BP, who ignored not just the warning signs, but the ADVICE OF OTHER EXPERTS on the rig. Make of that what you will;

645 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:30:23pm

Okay, that took longer than I thought, but I got the stuff I hope I need for my car.

re: #588 lostlakehiker

Believe it or not, there's rubber trees. It can be done that way. As to plastic, we could use biologically based feedstock, or we could start from coal. The loss of oil would be a blow, but it would not spell game over.

Believe it or not, we quit using rubber trees for a reason. I believe it was "supply and demand", but I could be mistaken.

As to plastic being synthesized from biologically based feedstock, I would like a link for that if you're still here. Not out of snark or anything like that, I am just honestly curious about the subject.

646 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:21pm

re: #645 Slumbering Behemoth

Okay, that took longer than I thought, but I got the stuff I hope I need for my car.

Believe it or not, we quit using rubber trees for a reason. I believe it was "supply and demand", but I could be mistaken.

As to plastic being synthesized from biologically based feedstock, I would like a link for that if you're still here. Not out of snark or anything like that, I am just honestly curious about the subject.

Google is your best friend:

Bioplastic....about 226,000 results (0.21 seconds)

A good place to start is with the Wiki link.
After reading that, scroll down the google list and click the link to "news for bio-plastic", there are several links there I found interesting as well as informative.

Happy reading.

647 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:01:57pm

re: #646 Reginald Perrin

Thanks dude.

Google is your best friend:

Yeah, it occurred to me a little after I posted that comment that I could just get off my lazy fingers and search for it myself.

648 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:14:46pm

re: #646 Reginald Perrin

From the first link:

However, manufacturing of bioplastic materials is often still reliant upon petroleum as an energy and materials source.

Bummer. Hopefully further research will make this a viable alternative in the future.

Also, there is this link...

8 Reasons Why BioPlastic is Worse than Regular Plastic

All of this stuff is news to me (Why yes, I have been living in a cave. Why do you ask?), so I'll have to do some more reading before formulating an informed opinion.

649 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:27:47pm

re: #190 Bubblehead II

Black Talons I hope. In both 9mm and 45 ACP. :-)

You may not want to mix those together.

650 garhighway  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 5:01:34am

re: #639 allegro

That it seems to be increasingly suspect that this "accident" was a profit-motive-shortcut- taking catastrophe with, as you point out, no plan to remediate, I can understand staking a long look at the practices of the industry. I would feel better with assurances that this was an isolated case and indeed "outside the norm".

Whose assurances do you think would be credible?


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Barry McGuire - Eve of Destruction Subscribe to The Best Of for more classic music history, videos and playlists: bit.ly "Eve of Destruction" is a protest song written by P. F. Sloan. Barry McGuire recorded the track in July 1965. It was released by Dunhill ...
Thanos
1 day ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 200705It was a good, non exhausting day's work, even though it was 98 degrees when we started. The end of the first game in the series is in sight. We can see the finish line.So everything we do now is ...
Welcome to The Imbleachment (dangerman)
1 day, 23 hours ago
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The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - the Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live) #TheMorriconeDuel #FilmMusicLive #DNSOWant to experience The Danish National Symphony Orchestra live? bit.ly The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Composed by Ennio MorriconeVarious flutes: Hans Ulrik, Russell ItaniVocals: Tuva Semmingsen & Christine Nonbo Andersen In January 2018, The Danish ...
Thanos
3 days, 1 hour ago
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Charlie Puth - Girlfriend [Official Audio] "Girlfriend" Out Now - charlieputh.lnk.to Text me:[no phone numbers allowed] Subscribe for more official content from Charlie Puth: charlieputh.lnk.to Follow Charliecharlieputh.com facebook.com@charlieputh instagram.comtiktok.comSoundCloud Lyrics: Yeah, tired of this conversationWe didn’t come all this wayTo touch a little, kiss a ...
Thanos
5 days, 20 hours ago
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Paul Weller - Village - Radio 2 BreakfastPaul Weller performs Village live from his Black Barn studio for the BBC Radio 2 Breakfast show
Thanos
5 days, 22 hours ago
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Crowded House - Fall at Your Feet (Live From Home, 2020) In the spirit of musical comradeship through isolation, us fellas in Crowded House have created a live version of Fall At Your Feet, captured here in the making at our respective home set ups. Some of the sentiment in ...
Thanos
5 days, 23 hours ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 200628after the rototilling we tossed several bags of wild flower seeds. thousands and thousands. we'll see what happens with them. we also bought four trees for our anniversary.all natives, good for birds and butterflies. there's a slash pine, a beautyberry ...
Welcome to The Imbleachment (dangerman)
1 week ago
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Russian Bounties — Trump Threatens the American Experiment - PRESS RUN Not once has Trump angrily banged a lectern and promised to get to the bottom of the stunning and heartbreaking story that Russian intelligence was paying lucrative bounties for the lives of American troops murdered in Afghanistan. Not once ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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