Outrageous Outrage of the Day!

Wingnuts • Views: 4,116

William Kristol’s article claiming that the Obama administration was planning to support an anti-Israel resolution at the UN was rapidly spread throughout the wingnutsphere, with the requisite expressions of outrageous outrage, rage, and more outrage.

And once again, it’s a bogus story.

The White House is sharply denying a claim by Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol that “the administration intends to support an effort next week at the United Nations to set up an independent commission, under UN auspices, to investigate Israel’s behavior in the Gaza flotilla incident.” …

The White House official said the administration continues to support “an Israeli-led investigation into the flotilla incident that is prompt, credible, impartial, and transparent.”

“We are open to different ways of ensuring the credibility of this Israeli-led investigation, including international participation, and have been in intensive talks with our Israeli partners in the past few days on how to move forward,” said the official. “We know of no resolution that will be debated at the UN on the flotilla investigation next week.”

(Hat tip: avanti.)

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643 comments
1 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:41:20pm

Shocked!
Shocked, I say!
Or...not.

2 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:41:51pm

Good work Avanti... and Charles.

3 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:42:53pm

Oh Bill Kristol will you ever get anything right?

4 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:42:55pm

That A. Unnammedsouce guy sure gets around. Bet he goes to some great parties.

5 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:43:27pm

We do not need facts, just lightning rods for our rage.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:43:53pm

re: #4 brookly red

I hear he's good friends with Area Man.

7 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:44:36pm

This news is going to make Helen Thomas really mad. And KOS. And DU. They would have been happy if the original story was accurate.

8 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:44:52pm

OT: Crist vetoes abortion ultrasound bill

Yay!

9 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:44:54pm

I FOR ONE AM OUTRAGED!!!

Why the fuck do people keep paying any attention to Kristol?

10 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:45:43pm

I love it when the BS gets debunked. Helps me chip away at the right wing partisans. Nice catch Avanti!

11 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:45:47pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

He lives at undisclosed location and is highly placed in an three letter agency, I hear from people in the know who are quoting from highly sensitive unreleased documents.

12 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:45:50pm

6 years ago, this suggestion would have been denounced as treason.

13 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:46:02pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I FOR ONE AM OUTRAGED!!!

Why the fuck do people keep paying any attention to Kristol?

It's gotta be the name. It rolls off the tongue so nicely.

14 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:46:33pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

I hear he's good friends with Area Man.

Yeah, he is married to his sister Ann Onymous

15 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:46:39pm

But, but, It's the Oboma and Rahm Emanuel!.

//////// It's a CONSPIRACY!!!!!

16 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:46:42pm

re: #12 Amory Blaine

6 years ago, this suggestion would have been denounced as treason.

Questioning our president in a time of war and all that....

17 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:47:07pm

re: #13 JasonA

It's gotta be the name. It rolls off the tongue so nicely.


He should be a Meth-odist preacher...

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:47:30pm

re: #12 Amory Blaine

6 years ago, this suggestion would have been denounced as treason.

Would that be before or after it was proven to be a bogus story?

19 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:48:09pm

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't think it would have mattered.

20 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:48:16pm

re: #13 JasonA

It's gotta be the name. It rolls off the tongue so nicely.

Or they think, "Boy, I sure like him in City Slickers."

21 researchok  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:48:30pm

How's this for an idea? Why not wait and see what's what before going into overdrive?

Kristol is sounding like the moonbats who declared 'concentration camps' and SS Storm Troopers were just around the corner.- which only goes to prove stupid knows no boundaries.

There is always plenty to criticize and and plenty to applaud. It isn't as if working ourselves into a frenzy is going to change things. If the Administration screws up big time they'll be hell to pay. No one has ever been shy about beating up administrations.

22 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:49:28pm

re: #19 Amory Blaine

Wait, I believe I misunderstood. Did you mean Kristol's "suggestion"?

23 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:49:56pm

re: #21 researchok

The fact you cannot find any evidence of storm troopers and death camps is simply evidence proving how very secretive they are.

24 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:50:22pm

I wonder if Kristol was punked.

25 webevintage  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:50:30pm

re: #3 jamesfirecat

Oh Bill Kristol will you ever get anything right?

No.
But he'll keep being treated like he is always right.

26 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:50:43pm

Beer run Lizards. Be back in a bit,

27 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:51:12pm

Looking at the Weekly Standard article it's hard not to miss the leading catch phrase:

THE WEEKLY STANDARD has learned...

Typical you have: has learned; sources tell; has exclusive information; etc. Usually they don't reveal where they obtained that information -- it could have been from a blog for all we know.

28 Joo-LiZ  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:51:21pm

This is somewhat random, but I wanted to share this observation:

I've been following Commentary Magazine's blog, Contentions, for quite a while now.

They have quite a collection of different contributors, and I must say, I am really not a fan of Jennifer Rubin. She seems to be the most prolific poster there, but is also the one who most supports the general nuttiness on the right.

She ignores many of the things that are pointed out at LGF. It makes for interesting cross-references. She has also been continuously ranting and raving about Obama's anti-Israel animus.

Aside from her though, many of the other posters provide extremely interesting/salient arguments and points on current events, as well as some excellent rebuttals to many of the fallacious articles published in various other media outlets.

29 Joo-LiZ  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:51:54pm

re: #28 Joo-LiZ

This is somewhat random, but I wanted to share this observation:

I've been following Commentary Magazine's blog, Contentions, for quite a while now.

They have quite a collection of different contributors, and I must say, I am really not a fan of Jennifer Rubin. She seems to be the most prolific poster there, but is also the one who most supports the general nuttiness on the right.

She ignores many of the things that are pointed out at LGF. It makes for interesting cross-references. She has also been continuously ranting and raving about Obama's anti-Israel animus.

Aside from her though, many of the other posters provide extremely interesting/salient arguments and points on current events, as well as some excellent rebuttals to many of the fallacious articles published in various other media outlets.

I bring it up because she doesn't buy the Administration denial of Kristol's "scoop"

30 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:52:13pm

re: #27 Gus 802

Looking at the Weekly Standard article it's hard not to miss the leading catch phrase:

THE WEEKLY STANDARD has learned...

Typical you have: has learned; sources tell; has exclusive information; etc. Usually they don't reveal where they obtained that information -- it could have been from a blog for all we know.

Better idea...

THE WEEKLY STANDARD Hasn't learned anything yet!

31 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:52:23pm

The correct method would be to a) cite the source; b) link to the source; and c) provide supporting documentation.

32 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:52:45pm

re: #24 Charles

I wonder if Kristol was punked.

That was exactly what I was thinking.. He claims a source and ran with it..
In 9 minutes everybody will probably be popping a beer at White House and laughing at Billy...

33 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #29 Joo-LiZ

I bring it up because she doesn't buy the Administration denial of Kristol's "scoop"

I'll bet she makes the claim, if it turns out the way the administration says, that Kristol forced them to change by reporting it.

34 researchok  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #31 Gus 802

The correct method would be to a) cite the source; b) link to the source; and c) provide supporting documentation.

All true but problematic.

Too many unnamed sources who leak stuff to serve their own ends.

35 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:53:47pm

re: #30 jamesfirecat

Better idea...

THE WEEKLY STANDARD Hasn't learned anything yet!

Could be like World Net Daily. They cited a source or learned something: from Tim "I'm Cwazy" Adams.

36 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:53:58pm

re: #28 Joo-LiZ

Yes, Rubin is nuts and is one of the reasons I don't even bother visiting Commentary's website anymore. A couple of times I tried to post comments over there to counter some of the more ridiculous ideas... but I learned my lesson.

37 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:29pm

re: #31 Gus 802

The correct method would be to a) cite the source; b) link to the source; and c) provide supporting documentation.

So, what're you're attempting to say is that excessive use of Caps Lock and vitriolic hyperbole is no longer an accetable practice?

38 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:34pm

re: #29 Joo-LiZ

I bring it up because she doesn't buy the Administration denial of Kristol's "scoop"

Well, if the Obama administration was planning to suddenly support a UN investigation, it would be pretty stupid for them to come out with such a strong statement supporting an Israeli-led investigation beforehand.

39 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:35pm

re: #34 researchok

All true but problematic.

Too many unnamed sources who leak stuff to serve their own ends.

True. Which means anytime we read something like that it should be looked at with high skepticism.

40 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:36pm

re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, Kristols razor-sharp dissertation.

41 avanti  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:45pm

re: #2 Walter L. Newton

Good work Avanti... and Charles.re: #8 JasonA

OT: Crist vetoes abortion ultrasound bill

Yay!

RINO !!!, oh wait, the party left him.

42 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:54:49pm

re: #34 researchok

All true but problematic.

Too many unnamed sources who leak stuff to serve their own ends.

Which is why journalists get reputations for accuracy or inaccuracy based on their ability to sort through the bullshit.

Kristol has the reputation of a man who will drive ten miles out of his way to get the inaccurate, biased version of a story.

43 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:55:16pm

re: #38 Charles

Well, if the Obama administration was planning to suddenly support a UN investigation, it would be pretty stupid for them to come out with such a strong statement supporting an Israeli-led investigation beforehand.

They're sneaky like that...

44 Joo-LiZ  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:55:32pm

re: #36 freetoken

Yes, Rubin is nuts and is one of the reasons I don't even bother visiting Commentary's website anymore. A couple of times I tried to post comments over there to counter some of the more ridiculous ideas... but I learned my lesson.

They don't allow comments any more.

I really do find, though, that the other commentators over there, aside from Rubin are pretty good. For the most part.

In my opinion, it's worth following for the good ones, but I've learned you have to be careful. Follow their links and see their sources, etc.

45 researchok  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:55:50pm

re: #36 freetoken

Yes, Rubin is nuts and is one of the reasons I don't even bother visiting Commentary's website anymore. A couple of times I tried to post comments over there to counter some of the more ridiculous ideas... but I learned my lesson.

I read the stuff there. There are some very good articles. I just don't bother with her stuff. Kind of like I won't read Sullivan at the Atlantic when he talks about Sarah Palin.

46 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:55:51pm

re: #41 avanti

What the fuck was your reply all about?

47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:56:50pm

re: #40 Amory Blaine

Yes, Kristols razor-sharp dissertation.

I'm sorry. At first I assumed you were talking about the bogus suggestion attributed to the WH. My bad.

48 researchok  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:57:06pm

re: #42 Obdicut

Which is why journalists get reputations for accuracy or inaccuracy based on their ability to sort through the bullshit.

Kristol has the reputation of a man who will drive ten miles out of his way to get the inaccurate, biased version of a story.

Oh yeah, he's earned it.

There's a reason everyone knows he'll fall for the right crap.

49 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:57:26pm

re: #42 Obdicut

Which is why journalists get reputations for accuracy or inaccuracy based on their ability to sort through the bullshit.

Kristol has the reputation of a man who will drive ten miles out of his way to get the inaccurate, biased version of a story.

But I saw that they were having a great sale on fertilizer over at Palin-Paloza!

50 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:57:47pm

re: #44 Joo-LiZ

They don't allow comments any more.

I really do find, though, that the other commentators over there, aside from Rubin are pretty good. For the most part.

In my opinion, it's worth following for the good ones, but I've learned you have to be careful. Follow their links and see their sources, etc.

Nothing in Commentary Magazine has any merit... it's a hotbed of neoconservatism. There can't be anything worthwhile in there...

51 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:58:27pm

re: #48 researchok

Oh yeah, he's earned it.

There's a reason everyone knows he'll fall for the right crap.

ever catch crabs with a piece of twine?

52 What, me worry?  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:58:56pm

Meanwhile Senator John Cornyn is proposing a resolution supporting Israel and condemning the flotilla. You go, Senator!

53 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:59:01pm

re: #51 brookly red

Or with a piece of a twin?

54 researchok  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:59:14pm

re: #39 Gus 802

True. Which means anytime we read something like that it should be looked at with high skepticism.

And journalists wonder why they aren't held in high esteem...

There was a time when an unnamed source allegations were vetted 3 times (Watergate). Now, it's anything goes.

55 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:59:18pm

re: #51 brookly red

ever catch crabs with a piece of twine?

in bed?

56 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:59:27pm

re: #51 brookly red

ever catch crabs with a piece of twine?

I regret saying that already...

57 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 1:59:30pm

re: #51 brookly red

ever catch crabs with a piece of twine?

If it was wrapped around the wrong woman.

58 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:00:58pm

re: #56 brookly red

I regret saying that already...

You really really should.

59 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:01:03pm

re: #51 brookly red

ever catch crabs with a piece of twine?

Piece of twine, a fresh chicken leg, and a net...

How my family would spend some wonderful summer mornings in Mane ....

60 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:01:26pm

any way, the crab is so greedy he won't let go of the bait & into the steamer he goes...

61 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:01:32pm

I heard that Dissent Magazine and Commentary Magazine had merged to form "Dysentery"

62 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:01:38pm

re: #44 Joo-LiZ

They don't allow comments any more.

Shows you how long since I've checked it out. I've probably skipped the place for many months.

There is very little of the "right wing" or presumptuously "conservative" blog-o-sphere that I care to read anymore. Other than checking out WND or FR to mock them, the lot just don't give me anything of value.

There are probably a few self-declared conservative thinkers and think tanks that still offer up meaningful commentary. Maybe the Manhattan Institute, or the Peterson Institute. But the great lot of the righty net just doesn't bring anything meaningful on which to spend my time. That's my conclusion anyway, YMMV.

63 avanti  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:02:01pm

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

What the fuck was your reply all about?

I stated to thank you for the nice words, then saw the abortion veto post and hit reply to the wrong post. BTW thank you, that's WTF I intended to say to you.

64 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:02:13pm

OT: Does any know the name of the Peace Activist with all the tattoos?

65 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:02:23pm

re: #60 brookly red

any way, the crab is so greedy he won't let go of the bait & into the steamer he goes...


You mean like the trick with catching a monkey with a banana in a hollow tree stump: he won't relax his fist to let go of the banana and gets stuck.

66 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:03:11pm

re: #65 ralphieboy

You mean like the trick with catching a monkey with a banana in a hollow tree stump: he won't relax his fist to let go of the banana and gets stuck.

similar

67 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:03:36pm

re: #54 researchok

And journalists wonder why they aren't held in high esteem...

There was a time when an unnamed source allegations were vetted 3 times (Watergate). Now, it's anything goes.

I'm not sure if it's a stereotype or something we learned from movies but real journalists were always looked at like performing the work of a private detective. That could include the gum shoe work and make numerous phone calls to confirm stories. Layers upon layers of checking sources and verifying the accuracy of the information. In this age of instant fast-food like reporting no one take the time to do these things. It's not like "Woodward and Bernstein" taking week to author a journalistic piece. Instead today what used to take days or weeks is now relegated to what the see on Twitter or what's being blogged.

68 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:03:59pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

OT: Does any know the name of the Peace Activist with all the tattoos?

O'Keefe?

69 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:04:42pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

OT: Does any know the name of the Peace Activist with all the tattoos?

Ken O'Keefe or Kenneth O'Keefe.

70 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:05:20pm

re: #59 jamesfirecat

Piece of twine, a fresh chicken leg, and a net...

How my family would spend some wonderful summer mornings in Mane ...

Did that when I spent summers with my Grandparents in CT.

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:05:26pm

re: #38 Charles

Well, if the Obama administration was planning to suddenly support a UN investigation, it would be pretty stupid for them to come out with such a strong statement supporting an Israeli-led investigation beforehand.

Very true.

72 avanti  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:05:50pm

Beck now talking about the evil 17th amendment, turns out to be a Commie/Progressive plot./

"The Seventeenth Amendment (Amendment XVII) to the United States Constitution established direct election of United States Senators by popular vote. The amendment supersedes Article I, § 3, Clauses 1 and 2 of the Constitution, under which Senators were elected by state legislatures. It also alters the procedure for filling vacancies in the Senate, to be consistent with the method of election. It was adopted on April 8, 1913."

73 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:07:46pm

re: #72 avanti

Hatred of the 16th and 17th amendments seems to be a package deal, for those hard core 10th amendment fanatics.

74 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:08:39pm

re: #29 Joo-LiZ

I bring it up because she doesn't buy the Administration denial of Kristol's "scoop"

Someone in the administration floated the idea . Kristol was told by one of his sources.

It would be believable considering that the Obama administration did sign on to a UN NPT resolution that named only Israel for scrutiny, while not mentioning Iran, Pakistan, India, or North Korea.
And yes, I know that after they signed on they came out and "deplored" the naming of Israel.
Only they didn't deplore it enough to not give the agreement an official nod from the US after yielding to pressure from the arab league.
It would also be believable for a number of other reasons considering Obama's treatment of Netanyahu and Israel as of late.

Anyone who still thinks Obama is some friend of Israel is in denial.
I believe that the few signs or statements of any support for Israel from this administration is owing to the real politic fact that the vast majority of the country strongly supports Israel.

75 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:08:57pm

re: #72 avanti

Beck now talking about the evil 17th amendment, turns out to be a Commie/Progressive plot./

"The Seventeenth Amendment (Amendment XVII) to the United States Constitution established direct election of United States Senators by popular vote. The amendment supersedes Article I, § 3, Clauses 1 and 2 of the Constitution, under which Senators were elected by state legislatures. It also alters the procedure for filling vacancies in the Senate, to be consistent with the method of election. It was adopted on April 8, 1913."

Its actually quite clever of him. He riles people up about something that they are not going to be able to change, thus keeping them frustrated and tuned in. Vile, but clever.

76 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:09:07pm

re: #73 freetoken

Hatred of the 16th and 17th amendments seems to be a package deal, for those hard core 10th amendment fanatics.

And those who still have trouble with the XIIIth

77 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:09:38pm

re: #69 Gus 802

Ken O'Keefe or Kenneth O'Keefe.

Great, thank you.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:09:51pm

re: #72 avanti

Because nothing screams of communism more than citizens voting to elect their representatives.

79 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:10:43pm

re: #73 freetoken

Hatred of the 16th and 17th amendments seems to be a package deal, for those hard core 10th amendment fanatics.

Hmm, I thought one of the big dealios with the teabaggers was that the left was trying to destroy the constitution... or something. Holy moly, I can't keep up.

80 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:10:50pm

re: #74 captdiggs


You're getting at something here: he might well support them but not in the same way as other folks, and not with sufficient vigour, sort of like how RINOs are just not Republican enough in supporting their party.

81 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:05pm

re: #76 ralphieboy

Don't forget that pesky overused 3rd amendment. :p

82 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:14pm

re: #74 captdiggs

Someone in the administration floated the idea . Kristol was told by one of his sources.

It would be believable considering that the Obama administration did sign on to a UN NPT resolution that named only Israel for scrutiny, while not mentioning Iran, Pakistan, India, or North Korea.
And yes, I know that after they signed on they came out and "deplored" the naming of Israel.
Only they didn't deplore it enough to not give the agreement an official nod from the US after yielding to pressure from the arab league.
It would also be believable for a number of other reasons considering Obama's treatment of Netanyahu and Israel as of late.

Anyone who still thinks Obama is some friend of Israel is in denial.
I believe that the few signs or statements of any support for Israel from this administration is owing to the real politic fact that the vast majority of the country strongly supports Israel.

Refresh my memory, exactly what has Obama done that has been so harsh towards Israel /Netanyahu?

83 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:15pm

re: #72 avanti

Beck now talking about the evil 17th amendment, turns out to be a Commie/Progressive plot./

"The Seventeenth Amendment (Amendment XVII) to the United States Constitution established direct election of United States Senators by popular vote. The amendment supersedes Article I, § 3, Clauses 1 and 2 of the Constitution, under which Senators were elected by state legislatures. It also alters the procedure for filling vacancies in the Senate, to be consistent with the method of election. It was adopted on April 8, 1913."

Let me guess. He was reading again last night. He's always picking up these conspiracy theories from his latest readings on the throne.

84 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:17pm

re: #74 captdiggs

Someone in the administration floated the idea . Kristol was told by one of his sources.

Are you trying to claim that the piece only claimed the idea was floated? That's not what is says.

When you have to dissemble to make your point, your point isn't at all strong.

85 Ebetty  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:40pm

Pretty sure Kristol & Barnes did the equivalent of self-mortification here.

86 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:48pm

re: #78 Slumbering Behemoth

Because nothing screams of communism more than citizens voting to elect their representatives.


That's no problem as long as there is only one Party (with a capital P)

87 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:11:55pm

re: #82 jamesfirecat

Refresh my memory, exactly what has Obama done that has been so harsh towards Israel /Netanyahu?

He didn't have dinner with Bibi.

88 Ebetty  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:12:28pm

re: #85 Ebetty

the journalistic equivalent of self-mortification...sheesh, can't type today!

89 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:13:26pm

re: #74 captdiggs

Oh, please.

90 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:13:59pm

Now Glenn Beck just compared the Constutional Convention to the "Bilderbergs".

[triple facepalm]

91 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:14:29pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Now Glenn Beck just compared the Constutional Convention to the "Bilderbergs".

[triple facepalm]

Srsly?!?!
Wow...

92 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:14:36pm

re: #82 jamesfirecat

Refresh my memory, exactly what has Obama done that has been so harsh towards Israel /Netanyahu?

There have been literally dozens of articles posted here at LGF that tell that story.

93 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:14:49pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Now Glenn Beck just compared the Constutional Convention to the "Bilderbergs".

[triple facepalm]

Bilderbergs! Dog whistle! Hmm, and he likes Elizabeth Dilling.

94 What, me worry?  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:15:29pm

re: #74 captdiggs

I think they call it playing two sides against the middle?

I'm not happy at all with his handling of M.E. affairs. I like him on domestic matters. He doesn't have a loud enough voice for Israel, IMO.

95 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:15:41pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Now Glenn Beck just compared the Constutional Convention to the "Bilderbergs".

[triple facepalm]

I don't listen to his show any more...
He really should have worn a helmet in little league

96 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:15:46pm

re: #67 Gus 802

I'm not sure if it's a stereotype or something we learned from movies but real journalists were always looked at like performing the work of a private detective. That could include the gum shoe work and make numerous phone calls to confirm stories. Layers upon layers of checking sources and verifying the accuracy of the information. In this age of instant fast-food like reporting no one take the time to do these things. It's not like "Woodward and Bernstein" taking week to author a journalistic piece. Instead today what used to take days or weeks is now relegated to what the see on Twitter or what's being blogged.

And to add to your observation:

The various news outlets all watch each others content. As soon as one of them issues a story turd, the others scramble to get their version out thus regurgitating the turd. Sure, they add a renta-quote of their own to make it "theirs." But they do not fact check the original story turd, nor diverge from the narrative, they just vomit out their version.

The superficial and biased MSM is first and foremost, The Turd Eaters.

97 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:16:36pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

[triple facepalm]

Um... you only have two palms... unless there is something you haven't told us - are you a genetic hybrid from Tau Ceti?

98 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:16:42pm

re: #76 ralphieboy

And those who still have trouble with the XIIIth

And the XIVth and XVth. And not being allowed to secede.

Youtube Video
99 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:16:46pm

re: #92 captdiggs

There have been literally dozens of articles posted here at LGF that tell that story.

Literally?

Link to one.

100 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:16:58pm

re: #92 captdiggs

There have been literally dozens of articles posted here at LGF that tell that story.


Hey its your argument, why don't you support it rather than telling me to go play fetch?

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:17:04pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Now Glenn Beck just compared the Constutional Convention to the "Bilderbergs".

[triple facepalm]

How anyone can take that blubbering buffoon seriously is beyond me. And yet, many seem to.

Triple Facepalm indeed.

102 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:17:43pm

I wouldn't trust the WH any more than I trust Bil Kristol....the WH has been known to tell bald face lies

103 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:17:43pm

BTW, if Beck really is saying "BILDERBERG", then he is getting his talking points from WND and Lew Rockwell, who have been trying to resell that conspiracy for the Nth time.

104 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:18:03pm

re: #97 freetoken

Um... you only have two palms... unless there is something you haven't told us - are you a genetic hybrid from Tau Ceti?

I used the sole of my foot as well because it was so stupid.

//

105 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:18:20pm

re: #96 Bagua

And to add to your observation:

The various news outlets all watch each others content. As soon as one of them issues a story turd, the others scramble to get their version out thus regurgitating the turd. Sure, they add a renta-quote of their own to make it "theirs." But they do not fact check the original story turd, nor diverge from the narrative, they just vomit out their version.

The superficial and biased MSM is first and foremost, The Turd Eaters.

Yeah. That's like the wire service effect. They all get the same AP, UPI, Scripps Howard feeds and repeat the same story or re-write the story around that as if though it was theirs.

106 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:18:26pm

re: #62 freetoken

It's your choice.
I really hate it though when folks try to tell me what is bad for me.

107 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:18:28pm

re: #97 freetoken

Um... you only have two palms... unless there is something you haven't told us - are you a genetic hybrid from Tau Ceti?

See comment #101.

108 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:18:38pm

re: #103 freetoken

BTW, if Beck really is saying "BILDERBERG", then he is getting his talking points from WND and Lew Rockwell, who have been trying to resell that conspiracy for the Nth time.

/what conspiracy?

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:19:14pm

re: #103 freetoken

BTW, if Beck really is saying "BILDERBERG", then he is getting his talking points from WND and Lew Rockwell, who have been trying to resell that conspiracy for the Nth time.

Don't forget senoJ xelA. He's big on that as well.

110 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:19:50pm

re: #102 albusteve

I wouldn't trust the WH any more than I trust Bil Kristol...the WH has been known to tell bald face lies

Literally?

"Hi, I'm the White House. I'm here to tell you today that I can't speak."

All Cretans are liars, says Epimenides the Cretan.

111 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:20:40pm

re: #109 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't forget senoJ xelA. He's big on that as well.

Youtube Video
112 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:21:13pm

OT: BP Spills coffee...complete with top hat, junk shot, and Kevin Costner.

Youtube Video
113 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:21:47pm

re: #103 freetoken

BTW, if Beck really is saying "BILDERBERG", then he is getting his talking points from WND and Lew Rockwell, who have been trying to resell that conspiracy for the Nth time.

A guest mentioned that at the Constitutional Convention the shutters were nailed closed so the delegates could debate in secret (to allowed them to change their minds during debate without being publicly branded as a flip-flopper), and Beck said "Like the Bilderbergs.". Only three words but each one requiring a facepalm. The EPIC FAIL was that bad.

114 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:21:55pm

re: #103 freetoken

BTW, if Beck really is saying "BILDERBERG", then he is getting his talking points from WND and Lew Rockwell, who have been trying to resell that conspiracy for the Nth time.

And Jeff Rense.

115 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:22:04pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Hey its your argument, why don't you support it rather than telling me to go play fetch?

consider it an astute observation then...screw your links, he's right there are dozens of posts, whole threads even

116 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:23:31pm

re: #115 albusteve

consider it an astute observation then...screw your links, he's right there are dozens of posts, whole threads even

Wow, dozens of posts and you couldn't be bothered to find a single one!

117 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:23:43pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Literally?

"Hi, I'm the White House. I'm here to tell you today that I can't speak."

All Cretans are liars, says Epimenides the Cretan.

the talking WH....pull a little cord and it says "Hi....we're the feds and we are here to help you!"

118 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:23:53pm

re: #115 albusteve

consider it an astute observation then...screw your links, he's right there are dozens of posts, whole threads even

Link to one. (I'm talking about a post by Charles, not a comment by some random wingnut.)

119 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:24:01pm

re: #114 Gus 802

Rense, Jones, Rockwell, Farah - they're all in the same business, competing against one another for the kook dollar.

120 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:24:07pm

re: #116 jamesfirecat

Wow, dozens of posts and you couldn't be bothered to find a single one!

Go fish.
;)

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:24:13pm

re: #111 Varek Raith

Awesome. The only thing I know about that cartoon is what I learned while occasionally watching it on a spanish speaking channel. Since I can't speak spanish, I didn't learn much.

122 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:24:29pm

It's "stories" like this that help the MSM make the case that the New Press is unreliable and that people should trust them to give them the "truth." And it's what makes it easier for the boys on Capital Hill to argue that slapping new taxes and fees on the Internet to prop up the dead-tree media is "preserving journalism."

123 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:24:40pm

re: #119 freetoken

Rense, Jones, Rockwell, Farah - they're all in the same business, competing against one another for the kook dollar.

Tim Adams! Remember him? I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares last night.

124 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:25:06pm

re: #116 jamesfirecat

Wow, dozens of posts and you couldn't be bothered to find a single one!

nope...move on if your unsatisfied, but consider 400m of your tax dollars to support Hamas "proposed by the Executive'

125 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:25:10pm

re: #121 Slumbering Behemoth

Awesome. The only thing I know about that cartoon is what I learned while occasionally watching it on a spanish speaking channel. Since I can't speak spanish, I didn't learn much.

Trust me, you don't have to hear the dialogue in order to understand Dragonball Z.
All action.

126 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:25:10pm

re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's "stories" like this that help the MSM make the case that the New Press is unreliable and that people should trust them to give them the "truth." And it's what makes it easier for the boys on Capital Hill to argue that slapping new taxes and fees on the Internet to prop up the dead-tree media is "preserving journalism."

What "New Press"? The Weekly Standard?

LOL.

127 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:25:15pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

Go fish.
;)

busy with the crabs...

128 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:25:33pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Yeah. That's like the wire service effect. They all get the same AP, UPI, Scripps Howard feeds and repeat the same story or re-write the story around that as if though it was theirs.

Exactly. And once they have a set narrative, be is the result of a biased agenda or just superficial laziness, they stick to that narrative and shun anything which doesn't fit. We have seen they will even crop photos to make them fit the agenda, just imagine the effect they have by choosing which photos and stories to report as news, even without cropping.

129 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:27:05pm

re: #128 Bagua

Exactly. And once they have a set narrative, be is the result of a biased agenda or just superficial laziness, they stick to that narrative and shun anything which doesn't fit. We have seen they will even crop photos to make them fit the agenda, just imagine the effect they have by choosing which photos and stories to report as news, even without cropping.


Not to mention posting obviously photoshopped pictures without even checking to see if they'd been altered...

130 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:27:20pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Literally?

"Hi, I'm the White House. I'm here to tell you today that I can't speak."

All Cretans are liars, says Epimenides the Cretan.

He is referring to the teleprompter, the real man behind the curtain.

131 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:27:45pm

re: #124 albusteve

nope...move on if your unsatisfied, but consider 400m of your tax dollars to support Hamas "proposed by the Executive'

well to be fair it is not so much that he is a bad person, he just see problems as something to be fixed by throwing other peoples money at :)

132 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:27:59pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Hey its your argument, why don't you support it rather than telling me to go play fetch?

Here, have a ball

[Link: www.google.com...]


Like I said, anyone who thinks Obama is a friend of Israel is in denial.

133 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:28:32pm

re: #130 Bagua

He is referring to the teleprompter, the real man behind the curtain cretan.


had to...

134 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:28:49pm

re: #132 captdiggs

Here, have a ball

[Link: www.google.com...]

Like I said, anyone who thinks Obama is a friend of Israel is in denial.

Dude here's a lesson in irony...

First link...

"[Link: gawker.com...]

The story that this thread has debunked.


Not a strong case you're making my friend...

135 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:29:33pm

re: #133 brookly red

had to...

Better not let Cato see that.

/Epimenides!

//

136 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:29:53pm

re: #132 captdiggs

Here, have a ball

[Link: www.google.com...]

Like I said, anyone who thinks Obama is a friend of Israel is in denial.

Nice goalpost shift. You said "stories posted here at LGF". I assume that meant "by Charles".

Any idiot Lizard can post anything at all, unless it comes from Stormfront or the like.

Fail.

137 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:00pm

re: #129 ralphieboy

Not to mention posting obviously photoshopped pictures without even checking to see if they'd been altered...

Exactly, if it fits the narrative it gets published, if not, discarded. As I say, sometimes the narrative is agenda based bias, but often it is just a reflection of the superficiality and laziness of the vile MSM.

138 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:02pm

re: #132 captdiggs

Here, have a ball

[Link: www.google.com...]

Like I said, anyone who thinks Obama is a friend of Israel is in denial.

Also, what happened to being able to show me proof here on LGF rather than trusting whatever internet site I end up on is trustworthy?

139 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:24pm

re: #132 captdiggs

Here, have a ball

[Link: www.google.com...]


Like I said, anyone who thinks Obama is a friend of Israel is in denial.


These links seem to show that there are a lot of articles out there by folks who don't think Obama is supporting Israel zealously and unconditionally enough.

140 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:29pm

re: #135 Gus 802

Better not let Cato see that.

/Epimenides!

//

Cato sees all... learn to deal with it.

141 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:50pm

re: #135 Gus 802

Better not let Cato see that.

/Epimenides!

//

Gladii at one step!
/

142 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:30:52pm

re: #130 Bagua

He is referring to the teleprompter, the real man behind the curtain.

How could Obama conduct diplomacy without TOTUS?

143 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:31:33pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

How could Obama conduct diplomacy without TOTUS?

Probably the same way he managed to have an intelligent Q&A with the Republican congressmen for over an hour.

144 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:31:35pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

Dude here's a lesson in irony...

First link...

"[Link: gawker.com...]

The story that this thread has debunked.

Not a strong case you're making my friend...

That's why I chose to follow Captain Trips instead.

145 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:03pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

How could Obama conduct diplomacy without TOTUS?


Write it on the palm of your hand. Any policy not simple enough to fit there is unworthy of our great nation.

/

146 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:10pm

re: #132 captdiggs

Good grief. A link to a simple Google search whose results at the top are to Bill Kristol then to American Thinker.

If you think you've impressed anyone here you are quite wrong. You are simply a zealot repeating your mantra over and over, as if by repeating it the universe will comport to your twisted view of reality.

And BTW, it's not President Obama's job to be a "friend of Israel." The President of the US takes a oath to uphold the Constitution, which describes the Executive's powers. All of which the current President has done and legally so (as far as I can tell.)

Your schtick is old and your arguments empty.

147 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:11pm

re: #136 Cato the Elder

Nice goalpost shift. You said "stories posted here at LGF". I assume that meant "by Charles".

Any idiot Lizard can post anything at all, unless it comes from Stormfront or the like.

Fail.

I assumed it mean print articles posted by Lizards

148 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:24pm

Totus potus, hocus pocus,
These are not the facts of focus.

149 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:54pm

re: #126 Cato the Elder

What "New Press"? The Weekly Standard?

LOL.

Not so much Weekly Standard as the "news sites" that, as Bagua pointed out with the MSM, take another service's scoop, change a few words or add a new quote, and claim it as their own. When you allow bias or animosity to drive your "reporting," you'll take "stories" like this and run with them without stopping to do a little fact-checking.

150 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:32:56pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

How could Obama conduct diplomacy without TOTUS?

considering that he could send either Clinton or Biden I will go with TOTUS.

151 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:33:09pm

re: #138 jamesfirecat

Also, what happened to being able to show me proof here on LGF rather than trusting whatever internet site I end up on is trustworthy?

you are missing his point intentionally, and Cato as well....anal

152 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:33:10pm

Proof Obama's a lizard alien!

153 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:34:05pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

OT: Does any know the name of the Peace Activist with all the tattoos?

Ken O'Keefe

154 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:34:12pm

re: #136 Cato the Elder

Nice goalpost shift. You said "stories posted here at LGF". I assume that meant "by Charles".

Any idiot Lizard can post anything at all, unless it comes from Stormfront or the like.

Fail.

I disagree, I'm an idiot Lizard and I can post The Like on LGF.

What I say and what I mean

Youtube Video

- The Like
155 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:34:22pm

re: #152 Varek Raith

Proof Obama's a lizard alien!

Obama's a lizard alien...does that mean he's part of the Vast Global Conspiracy?

/

156 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:34:28pm

One of the few right-wingers to whom I will listen is Eli Lake. Here is a brand new diavlog with him discussing Iran and then the flotilla issue:

[Link: bloggingheads.tv...]

OTOH, Lake would probably say that he isn't so much a traditional American "conservative" but rather a true neo-con. Probably so.

157 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:34:51pm

re: #145 ralphieboy

Write it on the palm of your hand. Any policy not simple enough to fit there is unworthy of our great nation.

/

That's not a Sarah Palin quote, but it should be.

158 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:35:05pm

re: #151 albusteve

you are missing his point intentionally, and Cato as well...anal

Oh I grasp his point quite well, Obama isn't a friend to Israel.

Its his proof for that point that I'm finding a bit more difficult to get a hold of...

159 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:35:34pm

re: #126 Cato the Elder

What "New Press"? The Weekly Standard?

LOL.

Since Philip Anschutz bought the Weekly Standard I've been calling it the Weakly Standard.

160 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:15pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

How could Obama conduct diplomacy without TOTUS?

It's unthinkable. Just like the Arthurian legend in which the land and the King are one.

The President and the Telepromter are one. Inseparable.

161 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:27pm

Oh, for the love of Sloth. How hard is it to do this?

162 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:32pm

OT: 1)Rare color film of Israel in 1948.

2) There is a report that

Obama nixed the use of equipment such as tear gas to stop the flotilla and demanded that Israel “exercise extreme caution and restraint.”

I saw the story in israelnationalnews which claims the story is from The World Tribune, a newspaper. Since I have never before heard of The World Tribune, I can not vouch whether the story is true or not. Perhaps some other lizard can. (I'm just reporting.)

163 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:38pm

re: #155 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Obama's a lizard alien...does that mean he's part of the Vast Global Conspiracy?

/

Interstellar Conspiracy.

164 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:39pm

re: #153 Alouette

Ken O'Keefe

Is he related to the asshole also surnamed O'Keefe who works with Andrew Breitbart?

165 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:36:48pm

CaptDiggs:

Once upon a time, a certain shrieking harpy used to post things on LGF.

Are we to take those posts as proof of anything but her own insanity?

166 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:37:09pm

re: #158 jamesfirecat

Oh I grasp his point quite well, Obama isn't a friend to Israel.

Its his proof for that point that I'm finding a bit more difficult to get a hold of...

there is no PROOF...only objective reasoning

167 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:37:21pm

re: #165 Cato the Elder

CaptDiggs:

Once upon a time, a certain shrieking harpy used to post things on LGF.

Are we to take those posts as proof of anything but her own insanity?

Helen Thomas posted on LGF?

/

168 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:37:53pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

ok..I'll list a few for you.
These do a fairly good job of summarizing the hostile relationship Obama has fostered with Israel.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]

[Link: www.usnews.com...]


There are many more.

169 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:38:15pm

re: #165 Cato the Elder

CaptDiggs:

Once upon a time, a certain shrieking harpy used to post things on LGF.

Are we to take those posts as proof of anything but her own insanity?

Was it this person?

170 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:39:06pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

Totus potus, hocus pocus,
These are not the facts of focus.

Watch the prompter if you dare
What you see may hold you fast
Pierce the screen with your hot glare

To see the words scrolling past
Read them quickly in the hot light
Ephermeral media will not last

But careful not to crow in delight
I fear I have bad news for you
Every president, no matter how bright

Has used a teleprompter-- or two.

Image: tele-bush-sr.jpg

171 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:39:20pm

re: #169 darthstar

Was it this person?

Yep, that was before she revealed her bigoted and hateful nature.

172 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:39:23pm

re: #169 darthstar

Was it this person?

Yep, that's her. She went off the deep end.

173 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:39:43pm

Lol.
I thought the teleprompter nonsense had finally gone away.

174 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:39:55pm

I'm back. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum. store. I was bit by a dog. No puncture wounds as I twisted, but some real nice scrapes. Owner was apologetic about the incident and as I was coming back from the store he and his wife stopped me and stated they were taking the animal to the vet. I questioned this and asked, don't you mean the pound? He corrected himself and yes the pound. He then went on to state that the dog had tried to bite his hand as he was beating it for biting me (///// Gee, I wonder why). Animal Control has been called and I am awaiting a return call. I called them, not because of the slight injury (shit happens), but because of the way the owner acted. While I am not happy about being attacked by the dog I have a strong belief it has been abused and fear the owner has other plans for it that do not include taking it to the pound.

175 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:40:01pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

Lol.
I thought the teleprompter nonsense had finally gone away.

It will...in 2017.

176 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

Yep, that was before she revealed her bigoted and hateful nature.

But not before she became addicted to orange tanning gel.

177 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:40:22pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Watch the prompter if you dare
What you see may hold you fast
Pierce the screen with your hot glare

To see the words scrolling past
Read them quickly in the hot light
Ephermeral media will not last

But careful not to crow in delight
I fear I have bad news for you
Every president, no matter how bright

Has used a teleprompter-- or two.

Image: tele-bush-sr.jpg

/Lincoln never used a teleprompter...

178 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:40:49pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

179 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:41:10pm

re: #178 Bagua

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

LOLOLOLOLOL

180 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:41:14pm

re: #174 Bubblehead II

Good God.

Poor dog.

181 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:41:29pm

re: #161 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, for the love of Sloth. How hard is it to do this?

And no, not all of those are favorable or unfavorable on the subject of Obama and Israel. Of note, it is instructive to see how a reasonable and intelligent person can change their views on something once more facts are known.

182 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:41:36pm

re: #177 brookly red

Heh. Good point, but getting 'since the invention and patenting of it' in there to scan didn't really work.

183 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:11pm

re: #176 Cato the Elder

But not before she became addicted to orange tanning gel.

You're in top, brutal, form today, Cato.

184 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:16pm

re: #114 Gus 802

Is beck doing a show about the Bilderbergs today? Awesome!

185 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:20pm

re: #178 Bagua

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

yes but he used a good one not an evil one...

186 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:30pm

re: #178 Bagua

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

That was Bush Sr. Bush Jr. just wore an earpiece and repeated whatever words Karl Rove said for him...kind of like Cyrano de Bergerac only without the charm.

187 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:32pm

re: #165 Cato the Elder

CaptDiggs:

Once upon a time, a certain shrieking harpy used to post things on LGF.

Are we to take those posts as proof of anything but her own insanity?

fer gods sake, re-read #92

188 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:33pm

re: #180 Cato the Elder

Wife thinks I am nuts. I am defending the dog even after a unprovoked attack.

189 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:47pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

Lol.
I thought the teleprompter nonsense had finally gone away.

A hundred years from now historians will still be talking about Obama and his Teleprompter.

190 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:47pm

re: #168 captdiggs


These show again that there are people who find Obama's support of Israel lacking in the sort of mindless, zealous vigour they have come to expect.

The LGF list posted in #161 shows that his support of Israel is strong, but not unconditional or mindless. And that is ultimately what he is being attacked for in a lot of those articles.

191 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:42:53pm

re: #178 Bagua

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

Yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a teleprompter. It's a useful tool, and I haven never understood why anyone thought it was a big deal.

Tu quoque have behaved reasonably and sensibly!

192 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:04pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Is beck doing a show about the Bilderbergs today? Awesome!

So I heard. Might have been one reference.

193 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:19pm

re: #175 darthstar

It will...in 2017.

Or 2012, one or the other.

194 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:22pm

OT:

Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

"Anchor babies" isn't a very endearing term, but in Arizona those are the words being used to tag children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants. While not new, the term is increasingly part of the local vernacular because the primary authors of the nation's toughest and most controversial immigration law are targeting these tots - the legal weights that anchor many undocumented aliens in the U.S. - for their next move.

Buoyed by recent public opinion polls suggesting they're on the right track with illegal immigration, Arizona Republicans will likely introduce legislation this fall that would deny birth certificates to children born in Arizona - and thus American citizens according to the U.S. Constitution - to parents who are not legal U.S. citizens. The law largely is the brainchild of state Sen. Russell Pearce, a Republican whose suburban district, Mesa, is considered the conservative bastion of the Phoenix political scene. He is a leading architect of the Arizona law that sparked outrage throughout the country: Senate Bill 1070, which allows law enforcement officers to ask about someone's immigration status during a traffic stop, detainment or arrest if reasonable suspicion exists - things like poor English skills, acting nervous or avoiding eye contact during a traffic stop. (See the battle for Arizona: will a border crackdown work?)

But the likely new bill is for the kids. While SB 1070 essentially requires of-age migrants to have the proper citizenship paperwork, the potential "anchor baby" bill blocks the next generation from ever being able to obtain it. The idea is to make the citizenship process so difficult that illegal immigrants pull up the "anchor" and leave. (See pictures of the Great Wall of America.)

195 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:28pm

More Peace Activist Video for those who are interested.

196 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:31pm

re: #168 captdiggs

ok..I'll list a few for you.
These do a fairly good job of summarizing the hostile relationship Obama has fostered with Israel.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]

[Link: www.usnews.com...]

There are many more.

This are opinions, not proof.

I think the same, but its not something you can prove unless he does the "Hellen Thomas". And im sure he doesnt want to DO the Thomas.

197 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:50pm

FFS! Literally* everyone uses a teleprompter. I can think of a few brutal job interviews where I could have really used one.

*Place deliberately for Cato.

198 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:43:54pm

/ Hah! in Amerika teleprompter uses you.

199 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:44:06pm

re: #168 captdiggs

ok..I'll list a few for you.
These do a fairly good job of summarizing the hostile relationship Obama has fostered with Israel.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]

[Link: www.usnews.com...]

There are many more.

I see "Fox news" on your list.

Congratulation on continuing to "impress" me with how "impartial" your news sources are.

200 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:44:16pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

You're in top, brutal, form today, Cato.

Well, when I start off the afternoon seeing CaptDiggs make the argumentum ad lacertam, bad crankiness is likely to ensue.

201 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:44:17pm

re: #191 Obdicut

Yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a teleprompter. It's a useful tool, and I haven never understood why anyone thought it was a big deal.

Tu quoque have behaved reasonably and sensibly!

Yes, a wonderful tool. I want one myself.

202 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:44:50pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Is beck doing a show about the Bilderbergs today? Awesome!

No, it was more of a throw-away comment by Beck.

203 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:44:56pm

re: #178 Bagua

Always quick with the tu quoque you are!

Look, Bush did it too!

it's an addiction...too bad because it really is rarely germane to much of anything anymore...weak

204 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:45:02pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

FFS! Literally* everyone uses a teleprompter. I can think of a few brutal job interviews where I could have really used one.

*Place deliberately for Cato.

Crazy. So, when the next R is pres I'm going to mercilessly make fun of his/her use of the teleprompter.
:evilgrin:

205 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:45:16pm

re: #189 Bagua

A hundred years from now historians will still be talking about Obama and his Teleprompter.

It's not the teleprompter that pisses Republicans off so much as it's Obama's having a big say in what goes into his speeches...many of them he writes himself. Accusing him of being dependent upon a teleprompter is their way of dismissing his words and their meaning, as they have no logical argument.

206 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:45:17pm

re: #146 freetoken

Good grief. A link to a simple Google search whose results at the top are to Bill Kristol then to American Thinker.

If you think you've impressed anyone here you are quite wrong. You are simply a zealot repeating your mantra over and over, as if by repeating it the universe will comport to your twisted view of reality.

And BTW, it's not President Obama's job to be a "friend of Israel." The President of the US takes a oath to uphold the Constitution, which describes the Executive's powers. All of which the current President has done and legally so (as far as I can tell.)

Your schtick is old and your arguments empty.

The number one job of any US president is national security.
Obama's approach of appeasement of dictators and thugocracies while sticking it to a long term ally in order to fulfill that appeasement is antithetical to national security.

No matter how badly you want to believe otherwise.

207 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:45:48pm

re: #188 Bubblehead II

Wife thinks I am nuts. I am defending the dog even after a unprovoked attack.

You are not nuts. Most bad canine behavior originates with the owner.

208 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:45:50pm

re: #189 Bagua

ahhahhahahahaha

*gasp*
ahahahahahahaha

209 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:46:39pm

re: #206 captdiggs

The number one job of any US president is national security.
Obama's approach of appeasement of dictators and thugocracies while sticking it to a long term ally in order to fulfill that appeasement is antithetical to national security.

No matter how badly you want to believe otherwise.

Shouldn't you be re-counting the ammunition and dried beans you have stored in your basement for the end-times?

210 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:01pm

re: #189 Bagua

A hundred years from now historians will still be talking about Obama and his Teleprompter.

too bad they will all be speaking Mandarin...

211 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:02pm

re: #205 darthstar

It minimizing him any way they can really, people are still seriously sore over how savage people were to Bush, and they wanna get theirs back.

212 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:05pm

re: #194 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

That is such a stupid idea. The Federal courts will toss a law like that out so fast you'd think it was in a time warp.

213 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:10pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Ah, bummer.

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:12pm

re: #204 Varek Raith

I prefer consistency, but knock yourself out. If I may, I suggest you do so in the comments section of the Fox News website in order to achieve maximum effect. Better yet, riAtoH.

215 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:37pm

re: #194 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds


The arguments are already in place; that being that when the COnstitution was drafted, there was no concept of an "undocumented" or "illegal" alien, anyone who made it over to the USA was free to settle here.

And in the end, I have to objection to ultimately making legal residence here a precondition for granting citizenship to offspring, but only if it part of a comprehensive package of Immigration reform, and not another boiler-patch solution like AZ 1070.

216 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:39pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

You are not nuts. Most bad canine behavior originates with the owner.

Unfortunately, it's always the dog who pays the price. Stories like this make me snarling, growling, snapping angry.

217 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:47:50pm

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Well, when I start off the afternoon seeing CaptDiggs make the argumentum ad lacertam, bad crankiness is likely to ensue.

so do you believe that BO has a solid, helpful, friendly relationship with Israel, built on mutual respect?

218 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:48:27pm

re: #209 darthstar

That's an ugly insult, and quite uncalled for.

219 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:48:35pm

re: #214 Slumbering Behemoth

I prefer consistency, but knock yourself out. If I may, I suggest you do so in the comments section of the Fox News website in order to achieve maximum effect. Better yet, riAtoH.

Sarcasm, SB, sarcasm.
:P

220 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:48:48pm

re: #217 albusteve

so do you believe that BO has a solid, helpful, friendly relationship with Israel, built on mutual respect?

Yes.

221 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:48:50pm

re: #199 jamesfirecat

I see "Fox news" on your list.

Congratulation on continuing to "impress" me with how "impartial" your news sources are.

And also once again, you said you could give me proof on LGF. I trust LGF and I trust comments on LGF because unless they come at the tail end of a string then I can see what other people think of them.

You said you could give me proof through LGF. Stop dancing around and do it...

222 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:06pm

re: #215 ralphieboy

I have an objection to it, that's the freakin' point.

223 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:19pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

That's an ugly insult, and quite uncalled for.

Give me an attractive insult I can use for such paranoia then.

224 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:24pm

re: #205 darthstar

I didn't vote for the guy, but acting like the evil contraption know as the teleprompter suddenly sprung into existence sometime during the '08 campaign is just flipping stupid.

225 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:37pm

re: #220 Cato the Elder

Yes.

prove it, I want to see unbiased links

226 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:43pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

You are not nuts. Most bad canine behavior originates with the owner.

/and then there is leg humpping....

227 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:44pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

You are not nuts. Most bad canine behavior originates with the owner.

As I explained to her. She still wants the vaccination records checked. As do I.

228 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:49:52pm

re: #215 ralphieboy

The arguments are already in place; that being that when the COnstitution was drafted, there was no concept of an "undocumented" or "illegal" alien, anyone who made it over to the USA was free to settle here.

And in the end, I have to objection to ultimately making legal residence here a precondition for granting citizenship no offspring, but only if it part of a comprehensive package of Immigration reform, and not another boiler-patch solution like AZ 1070.

PIYF

229 freetoken  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:50:09pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

That is such a stupid idea. The Federal courts will toss a law like that out so fast you'd think it was in a time warp.


It does seem as though time is flowing backwards, doesn't it?

230 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:50:27pm

re: #223 darthstar

Give me an attractive insult I can use for such paranoia then.

typical asshole....you set yourself up for your own self induced grief

231 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:50:55pm

re: #225 albusteve

prove it, I want to see unbiased links

Are you arguing about god again?

232 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:08pm

re: #223 darthstar

Give me an attractive insult I can use for such paranoia then.

No insult was called for. HE was hostile, but your reply called him a survivalist.

233 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:09pm

re: #205 darthstar

It's not the teleprompter that pisses Republicans off so much as it's Obama's having a big say in what goes into his speeches...many of them he writes himself. Accusing him of being dependent upon a teleprompter is their way of dismissing his words and their meaning, as they have no logical argument.

Funny but true. For years I noticed these teleprompters at presidential speeches, I didn't know what they were until Obama. I always thought they were a bullet proof shield that was placed to cover some strategic angle, such as a window.

234 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:12pm

re: #227 Bubblehead II

As I explained to her. She still wants the vaccination records checked. As do I.

As would I.

Here's hoping they come up in proper order, for your sake and that of the dog.

And you should really see about having the dog removed from the "care" of that owner. Haku will bless you if you do.

235 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:13pm

re: #223 darthstar

Give me an attractive insult I can use for such paranoia then.

Image: palin15.jpg ?

236 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:14pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

No, "FOAD" would be an uncalled for and nasty insult.

That was clever :p

237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:16pm

re: #219 Varek Raith

I know, but the more I think on it, the funnier it sounds. Especially if it were done on that second site I mentioned.

Can you imagine the responses?

238 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:42pm

re: #230 albusteve

typical asshole...you set yourself up for your own self induced grief

Is the name calling really necessary?

239 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:51:56pm

re: #237 Slumbering Behemoth

I know, but the more I think on it, the funnier it sounds. Especially if it were done on that second site I mentioned.

Can you imagine the responses?

Yes.
Muhahahahaha!~

240 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:52:05pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

No insult was called for. HE was hostile, but your reply called him a survivalist.

I'm a survivalist, in that case. It is not possible to insult me by such meager means.

241 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:52:25pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

post retracted. I should have paid better attention. FAIL

242 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:52:34pm

re: #233 Bagua

Totally me too!

243 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:53:27pm

re: #231 KDS1

Are you arguing about god again?

no, I'm arguing with god

244 captdiggs  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:53:40pm

re: #209 darthstar

Shouldn't you be re-counting the ammunition and dried beans you have stored in your basement for the end-times?

I see, so anyone who is not enamored of Obama must be some fundamentalist nut case.

You folks can go on wearing those Obama rose colored glasses but the reason you are seeing Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit, Russia boasting that they will still sell advanced weapons to Iran, and Iran itself laughing at the US as it speeds towards nuclear armament, is because of the current approach to foreign affairs.

245 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:53:48pm

re: #206 captdiggs

The number one job of any US president is national security.
Obama's approach of appeasement of dictators and thugocracies while sticking it to a long term ally in order to fulfill that appeasement is antithetical to national security.

No matter how badly you want to believe otherwise.

Well said.

246 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:53:48pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

lolthreadpolice.

247 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:54:01pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

No insult was called for. HE was hostile, but your reply called him a survivalist.

I call people survivalists all the time, especially when they start in with that crap about the president being an appeaser who will see our country destroyed if he gets his way...yes, it's a deep cut, but sometimes a deep cut is required to reach people when they're talking like the paranoid fucktards at HotAir.

248 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:54:03pm

re: #243 albusteve

no, I'm arguing with god

Sigh, does he owe you money again???

249 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:54:15pm

re: #231 KDS1

Are you arguing about god again?

are you by any chance a libertarian ? just curious...

250 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #244 captdiggs

I see, so anyone who is not enamored of Obama must be some fundamentalist nut case.

You folks can go on wearing those Obama rose colored glasses but the reason you are seeing Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit, Russia boasting that they will still sell advanced weapons to Iran, and Iran itself laughing at the US as it speeds towards nuclear armament, is because of the current approach to foreign affairs.

So what should we do?

Declare war with Iran?

251 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:11pm

re: #244 captdiggs

"Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit".

I have a hard time putting together a meaningful response to how silly that is.

252 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:33pm

re: #238 Reginald Perrin

Is the name calling really necessary?

Well, in all fairness, I did call Steve's friend a survivalist (or at least I implied he was sounding like someone who found camo an attractive pattern for most occasions).

253 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:34pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

So what should we do?

Declare war with Iran?

The same thing Bush did to prevent North Korea from obtaining nukes.
Wait...

254 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:41pm

re: #244 captdiggs

I see, so anyone who is not enamored of Obama must be some fundamentalist nut case.

You folks can go on wearing those Obama rose colored glasses but the reason you are seeing Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit, Russia boasting that they will still sell advanced weapons to Iran, and Iran itself laughing at the US as it speeds towards nuclear armament, is because of the current approach to foreign affairs.

Because of course a mere word from Dubya would have stopped all that in its tracks.

Wait, what?

255 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:42pm

re: #210 brookly red

too bad they will all be speaking Mandarin...

"你为什么这样说？"

256 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:43pm

re: #247 darthstar

I call people survivalists all the time, especially when they start in with that crap about the president being an appeaser who will see our country destroyed if he gets his way...yes, it's a deep cut, but sometimes a deep cut is required to reach people when they're talking like the paranoid fucktards at HotAir.

yeah, it's crap alright...go back to your nap drooler

257 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:55:45pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

Lets totally assasinate their head of state!

258 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:56:43pm
A TORNADO WATCH has been issued along the entire I-25 corridor until 9 p.m., including Denver, Boulder and Ft. Collins.
259 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:56:44pm

re: #257 windsagio

Lets totally assasinate their head of state!

I'll just blow up the Earth.
Problem solved.
///

260 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:56:48pm

re: #251 windsagio

"Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit".

I have a hard time putting together a meaningful response to how silly that is.

well they are acting a bit different these days...

261 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:56:50pm

re: #252 darthstar

Well, in all fairness, I did call Steve's friend a survivalist (or at least I implied he was sounding like someone who found camo an attractive pattern for most occasions).

you seemed to miss the question again

262 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:15pm

re: #259 Varek Raith

I'll just blow up the Earth.
Problem solved.
///

That's your answer to everything!

///

263 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:23pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

So what should we do?

Declare war with Iran?

It may come to that, and Obama may be the president who has to do it.

Correction, though: one dances with someone, one declares war on them.

264 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:23pm

re: #244 captdiggs

I see, so anyone who is not enamored of Obama must be some fundamentalist nut case.

So if one does not agree with you that Obama wants to see the destruction of Israel (which you seems to be implying) it means that one is enamored of him and believes he can do no wrong?

I've seen some bizarro leaps, but this one is a biggie.

265 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:37pm

re: #255 Bagua

"你为什么这样 说？"

no thank you, I don't eat Pork.

266 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:38pm

re: #244 captdiggs

Like you, i think Obama is giving some better cards to the muslim world then to Israel. He applied pressure to freeze building in Jerusalem and some other settlements, while the Palestinians gave nothing in return. Thats a fact.
But this is his perspective, it doesnt necessarily mean that he is anti-israel.

267 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:43pm

re: #262 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's your answer to everything!

///

No sarcasm needed.
BOOOMMM!!!!
:)

268 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:57:47pm

re: #243 albusteve

I hear if you get him in a headlock he might give you a nice tract of land, or something.

269 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:58:24pm

re: #244 captdiggs

I see, so anyone who is not enamored of Obama must be some fundamentalist nut case.

You folks can go on wearing those Obama rose colored glasses but the reason you are seeing Turkey spinning into the Iranian orbit, Russia boasting that they will still sell advanced weapons to Iran, and Iran itself laughing at the US as it speeds towards nuclear armament, is because of the current approach to foreign affairs.

This shit was going on long before President Obama took office, and it will continue to go on long after he leaves office.

Keep saying "appeasement" though...you might convince me eventually.

270 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:58:40pm

re: #260 brookly red

Turkey spinning into ANYBODY's orbit is simply not something we should be concerned about.

People treat Iran like its the Islamic superpower, and everyone is beholden to them.

271 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:09pm

re: #263 Cato the Elder

It may come to that, and Obama may be the president who has to do it.

Correction, though: one dances with someone, one declares war on them.

How well set up is the US army (man power wise among other problems) to do get involved in invading, deconstructing, and then reconstructing a THIRD Muslim nation in Middle East?

272 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:19pm

re: #265 brookly red

Heh, it read: "Why do you say that?"

273 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:20pm

re: #270 windsagio

Turkey spinning into ANYBODY's orbit is simply not something we should be concerned about.

People treat Iran like its the Islamic superpower, and everyone is beholden to them.

HOLY SHIT A COUNTRY FALLING ON TOP OF YOU IS HOLY SHIT!!!
XD

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:31pm

re: #246 windsagio

Yes, this is a self policing community. Has been for a very long time.

275 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:31pm

re: #256 albusteve

yeah, it's crap alright...go back to your nap drooler

"drooler"? Ha! That was my nickname for Ronald Reagan when he was in office...especially the last three years. Updinged for originality!

276 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 2:59:37pm

re: #266 KDS1

Like you, i think Obama is giving some better cards to the muslim world then to Israel. He applied pressure to freeze building in Jerusalem and some other settlements, while the Palestinians gave nothing in return. Thats a fact.
But this is his perspective, it doesnt necessarily mean that he is anti-israel.

Hell just think of all the times Obama has given things to the Republcians and gotten nothing in return!

277 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:00:05pm

re: #255 Bagua

"你为什么这样 说？"

因為他!

278 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:00:11pm

re: #270 windsagio

Turkey spinning into ANYBODY's orbit is simply not something we should be concerned about.

People treat Iran like its the Islamic superpower, and everyone is beholden to them.

there are very close to becoming an Islamic superpower....or is all the chatter about nuclear enrichment just made up?

279 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:00:26pm

Technical question: I no longer am able to receive "auto" as comments are posted. I have to hit F5 to update comments. Any suggestions. and I can't do "preview".

280 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:01pm

Welp. Time for some more trouble shooting. Catch y'all laters.

281 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:02pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

No sarcasm needed.
BOOOMMM!!!
:)

They just found a planet in another solar system...go blow that one up for practice. And take pictures.
:)

282 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:12pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

How well set up is the US army (man power wise among other problems) to do get involved in invading, deconstructing, and then reconstructing a THIRD Muslim nation in Middle East?

I don't know, but if it has to be done, I'll support it.

283 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:15pm

re: #278 albusteve

there are very close to becoming an Islamic superpower...or is all the chatter about nuclear enrichment just made up?

It takes more than nukes to be a superpower.

North Korea has them but does anyone consider that ass backwards, can't feed their own people pile of dirt a "superpower"?

284 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:18pm

re: #270 windsagio

Turkey spinning into ANYBODY's orbit is simply not something we should be concerned about.

People treat Iran like its the Islamic superpower, and everyone is beholden to them.

now but they are a player, and shit happens... there is a whole lot of stuff going on.

285 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:27pm

re: #249 brookly red

are you by any chance a libertarian ? just curious...

I cant really say. The political parties here represent different ideas then in the US. I think im more to the Republican side...

286 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #270 windsagio

Turkey spinning into ANYBODY's orbit is simply not something we should be concerned about.

People treat Iran like its the Islamic superpower, and everyone is beholden to them.

People? You mean Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all the Gulf States. It is an emerging Shia Islamic superpower. The goal is to stop that.

287 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:54pm

re: #276 jamesfirecat

Hell just think of all the times Obama has given things to the Republcians and gotten nothing in return!

what times?...name them and show some proof

288 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:01:56pm

re: #247 darthstar

I call people survivalists all the time, especially when they start in with that crap about the president being an appeaser who will see our country destroyed if he gets his way...yes, it's a deep cut, but sometimes a deep cut is required to reach people when they're talking like the paranoid fucktards at HotAir.

re: #247 darthstar

I call people survivalists all the time, especially when they start in with that crap about the president being an appeaser who will see our country destroyed if he gets his way...yes, it's a deep cut, but sometimes a deep cut is required to reach people when they're talking like the paranoid fucktards at HotAir.

I don't think that was captdiggs argument. I can't speak for him, but what I think is that Obama often tries too hard to be internationalist. He tries to build consensus where decent consensus cannot be built. That is the root of people's concerns about him and any Israel investigation.

Note: The above should not be taken as an assertion that Obama is a Transnational Progressive, which he is not. Internationalists are not necessarily Tranzis, the key issue is their willingness to subordinate national, democratic institutions to transnational, non-democratic institutions. Obama has not advocated such things.

289 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:03pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

How well set up is the US army (man power wise among other problems) to do get involved in invading, deconstructing, and then reconstructing a THIRD Muslim nation in Middle East?

And by the way, Afghanistan is not in the Middle East.

290 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:05pm

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

What's a Tranzi again?

I lose track of these things.

291 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:08pm

re: #287 albusteve

what times?...name them and show some proof

He gave up on the public option in the health care plan for Republican votes, and got none. He weakened financial reform for Republican votes and got none. Pay attention.

292 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:09pm

re: #234 Cato the Elder

Animal Control just called. Wanted to verify the address of the owner and is trying to make contact.

293 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

因為他!

没错

294 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:28pm

re: #262 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's your answer to everything!

///

He didn't build that Death Star to have its sit idle.

295 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:03:30pm

re: #282 Cato the Elder

I don't know, but if it has to be done, I'll support it.

I'd support it if it really is the only way to keep Iran from using its nukes, and I'd appreciate it if we raised taxes to pay for this war rather than just passing the buck along.

At the moment I've still got hope that if we leave them alone a little longer they'll have an internal revolution without needing our help...

296 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:04:37pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

因為他!

Wan Hung Lo

297 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:04:37pm

re: #285 KDS1

I cant really say. The political parties here represent different ideas then in the US. I think im more to the Republican side...

OK, just asking... I wonder what young people think these days.

298 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:04:44pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

How well set up is the US army (man power wise among other problems) to do get involved in invading, deconstructing, and then reconstructing a THIRD Muslim nation in Middle East?

An invasion is not necessary, nor is reconstruction. But you are correct that Iran needs deconstructing.

299 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:04:45pm

re: #291 darthstar

He gave up on the public option in the health care plan for Republican votes, and got none. He weakened financial reform for Republican votes and got none. Pay attention.

where is the proof, I don't want your opinion....when did HE give up public option, what was the date?

300 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:04:58pm

re: #295 jamesfirecat

I'd support it if it really is the only way to keep Iran from using its nukes, and I'd appreciate it if we raised taxes to pay for this war rather than just passing the buck along.

At the moment I've still got hope that if we leave them alone a little longer they'll have an internal revolution without needing our help...

Yep. That worked real well with Nazi Germany.

301 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:05:06pm

re: #293 Bagua

没错

讲英语，而不是中文!

302 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:05:15pm

Bugger.

303 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:05:44pm

re: #290 Obdicut

What's a Tranzi again?

I lose track of these things.

Transnational Progressive. Someone who wants to subordinate national, democratic institutions to transnational, non-democratic institutions. Obama has not advocated such things. I added that long disclaimer to make it clear I wasn't going into the loony territory so on the right go into.

304 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:05:58pm

re: #287 albusteve

what times?...name them and show some proof

I actually phrased that joke poorly, It's actually an impossible stance to prove because as the President, Obama doesn't really give things to Republicans in a back and forth the way Democrats in the Legislative Branch do....

305 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:06:15pm

re: #301 Varek Raith

讲英语，而不&# 26159;中文!

Ha! fail.

306 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:06:17pm

re: #298 Bagua

Why invade and occupy? Bombing nuke development sites doesn't require that.

307 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:06:44pm

re: #286 Bagua

People? You mean Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all the Gulf States. It is an emerging Shia Islamic superpower. The goal is to stop that.

When Bush was in charge, the muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria) were far more afraid of the Iranian acquiring a nuke then a war with Israel, since they all knew that if they do- they are a danger to them just as much as they are to Israel. But now, when they all see how the US and Europe are handaling this issue, they decided that its much safer to be with Iran, then against it, cause they will get the bomb one way or another.
Thats what being soft does.

308 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:07:05pm

re: #299 albusteve

where is the proof, I don't want your opinion...when did HE give up public option, what was the date?

Oh, god, Steve...I suppose you'd like me to provide the original birth certificate with his little feet prints on it too? It's not my fault you slept through 2009.

309 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:07:10pm

re: #305 Bagua

Ha! fail.

Yep.

310 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:07:10pm

re: #292 Bubblehead II

That was quick.

311 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:07:41pm

re: #305 Bagua

Ha! fail.

does that come with soup?

312 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:08:04pm

re: #298 Bagua

An invasion is not necessary, nor is reconstruction. But you are correct that Iran needs deconstructing.

invade?...good lord, people are naive

313 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:08:23pm

re: #307 KDS1

When Bush was in charge, the muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria) were far more afraid of the Iranian acquiring a nuke then a war with Israel, since they all knew that if they do- they are a danger to them just as much as they are to Israel. But now, when they all see how the US and Europe are handaling this issue, they decided that its much safer to be with Iran, then against it, cause they will get the bomb one way or another.
Thats what being soft does.

How is the current "handling" of Iran by the US and Europe any different now than it was under Bush.

Dither, dawdle, make excuses, rely on the UN. Then as now.

314 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:08:33pm

re: #290 Obdicut

What's a Tranzi again?

I lose track of these things.

It's a silly word that the stalkers use at their cesspool and it usually accompanied by the word progies. It has something to do with one world government and black UN helicopters.

315 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:08:42pm

re: #289 Cato the Elder

And by the way, Afghanistan is not in the Middle East.

Sorry my bad.

General point of another war means we'll have to rebuild our second country formerly dictated by Muslims and our Second country in the Middle East, third country over all, still stands....

316 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:15pm

re: #312 albusteve

invade?...good lord, people are naive

Really...we just need Israel to put Iran into a nuclear winter and then we can all go skiing.

317 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:19pm

re: #307 KDS1

When Bush was in charge, the muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria) were far more afraid of the Iranian acquiring a nuke then a war with Israel, since they all knew that if they do- they are a danger to them just as much as they are to Israel. But now, when they all see how the US and Europe are handaling this issue, they decided that its much safer to be with Iran, then against it, cause they will get the bomb one way or another.
Thats what being soft does.

wow your typing skills are really improving quickly...

318 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:25pm

re: #315 jamesfirecat

Sorry my bad.

General point of another war means we'll have to rebuild our second country formerly dictated by Muslims and our Second country in the Middle East, third country over all, still stands...

Nope.

Bomb the nuke sites. Set 'em back ten, fifteen years. Mission accomplished.

319 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:47pm

re: #308 darthstar

Oh, god, Steve...I suppose you'd like me to provide the original birth certificate with his little feet prints on it too? It's not my fault you slept through 2009.

how do you like your anal little game Beavis?....I made no mention of a birth cert, way to move the goalposts, gee you're not so good after all

320 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:48pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Yep. That worked real well with Nazi Germany.

Nazi Germany didn't have massive people taking to the streets semi-open rebellion the way Iran did during its last election.

321 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:09:57pm

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

Transnational Progressive. Someone who wants to subordinate national, democratic institutions to transnational, non-democratic institutions. Obama has not advocated such things. I added that long disclaimer to make it clear I wasn't going into the loony territory so on the right go into.

Note that the addition of "progressive" to Tanzis is somewhat of an American adaptation. Certainly many Tranzis are lefties, but many others are not.

322 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:20pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

Nope.

Bomb the nuke sites. Set 'em back ten, fifteen years. Mission accomplished.

...for fifteen years. That means in three years we'll be screaming that they're five years away from having nukes again.

323 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:21pm

re: #310 KDS1

mid sized town. Twin falls Idaho

324 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:28pm

re: #320 jamesfirecat

Nazi Germany didn't have massive people taking to the streets semi-open rebellion the way Iran did during its last election.

Neither does Iran, now.

325 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:36pm

re: #298 Bagua

An invasion is not necessary, nor is reconstruction. But you are correct that Iran needs deconstructing.

So what we just push a bunch of buttons, launch a bunch of cruse missiles and leave whoever is left alive to do whatever they can with the rubble we leave in our wake?

326 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:38pm

re: #313 Cato the Elder

How is the current "handling" of Iran by the US and Europe any different now than it was under Bush.

Dither, dawdle, make excuses, rely on the UN. Then as now.

When Bush was on, they believed hes crazy enough to try invading Iran. Now its obvious that Obama will do anything to prevent it.

327 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:46pm

re: #315 jamesfirecat

Sorry my bad.

General point of another war means we'll have to rebuild our second country formerly dictated by Muslims and our Second country in the Middle East, third country over all, still stands...

no we don't

328 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:10:54pm

re: #322 darthstar

...for fifteen years. That means in three years we'll be screaming that they're five years away from having nukes again.

Bomb 'em again, then.

329 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:00pm

re: #319 albusteve

how do you like your anal little game Beavis?...I made no mention of a birth cert, way to move the goalposts, gee you're not so good after all

I was using hyperbole...sorry...I'll type slower next time so you can follow.

330 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:17pm

re: #326 KDS1

When Bush was on, they believed hes crazy enough to try invading Iran. Now its obvious that Obama will do anything to prevent it.

Nonsense.

331 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #323 Bubblehead II

mid sized town. Twin falls Idaho

I love Twin Falls...beautiful place.

332 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:39pm

re: #322 darthstar

...for fifteen years. That means in three years we'll be screaming that they're five years away from having nukes again.

good math....bomb them every fifteen years...you are catching on

333 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:42pm

re: #317 brookly red

I have some off-days.

334 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:11:51pm

re: #328 Cato the Elder

Bomb 'em again, then.

And when they harden their sites deep within mountains?

335 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:12:43pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

So what we just push a bunch of buttons, launch a bunch of cruse missiles and leave whoever is left alive to do whatever they can with the rubble we leave in our wake?

pretty much yes....you have a better idea?
spill it

336 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:12:50pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

Nope.

Bomb the nuke sites. Set 'em back ten, fifteen years. Mission accomplished.

Which is why their building their sites either buried under mountains or the the middle of civilian areas.

337 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:12:57pm

re: #322 darthstar

...for fifteen years. That means in three years we'll be screaming that they're five years away from having nukes again.

I'll take 15 years, no problem.

338 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:06pm

re: #334 Varek Raith

And when they harden their sites deep within mountains?

Bomb the entryways with enough bombs to bury 'em. Repeat as needed.

339 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:10pm

re: #306 sandbox

Why invade and occupy? Bombing nuke development sites doesn't require that.

Because I like to think the United states will be "magnanimous in victory" rather than just dropping a bunch of bombs on people and leaving them in our dust to do whatever they can with whatever we left standing....

340 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:13pm

re: #333 KDS1

I have some off-days.

yeah we all have em, I guess the time difference is hard to deal with.

341 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:16pm

re: #306 sandbox

Why invade and occupy? Bombing nuke development sites doesn't require that.

AGM-158 JASSM Cruise Missile

Youtube Video
342 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:36pm

re: #334 Varek Raith

And when they harden their sites deep within mountains?

I'm more worried they'll out-source to a country that isn't getting the crap bombed out of it all the time. Building the bombs is easy. Getting the enriched plutonium is a bitch...but it's out there.

343 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:37pm

re: #330 Cato the Elder

Nonsense.

Nonsense "Bush would have never do that" or Nonsense "they didnt believe that"?

344 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:40pm

re: #337 Spare O'Lake

I'll take 15 years, no problem.

you need a better lawyer...

345 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:44pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

We bomb nuclear development sites. Not the entire country. If no revolution if forthcoming, which appears unlikely, what other choice is there?

346 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:13:59pm

re: #329 darthstar

I was using hyperbole...sorry...I'll type slower next time so you can follow.

don't bother, you are exceedingly easy to follow, type as fast as you want

347 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:14:10pm

re: #306 sandbox

Why invade and occupy? Bombing nuke development sites doesn't require that.

Exactly! One of the key lessons of the Iraq invasion was that the bombings and no fly zones where more effective than was widely believed.

Their entire nuclear and missile program could end with a few days of determined effort by the US Air Force.

348 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:14:41pm

re: #307 KDS1

When Bush was in charge, the muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria) were far more afraid of the Iranian acquiring a nuke then a war with Israel, since they all knew that if they do- they are a danger to them just as much as they are to Israel. But now, when they all see how the US and Europe are handaling this issue, they decided that its much safer to be with Iran, then against it, cause they will get the bomb one way or another.
Thats what being soft does.

Yeah Bush really showed those Islamic countries what they had to fear if they started to develop nuclear weapons what with how he blew the s*** out of North Korea!

349 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:14:42pm

re: #341 Gus 802

AGM-158 JASSM Cruise Missile

Like dat.

350 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:15:09pm

re: #347 Bagua

Exactly! One of the key lessons of the Iraq invasion was that the bombings and no fly zones where more effective than was widely believed.

Their entire nuclear and missile program could end with a few days of determined effort by the US Air Force.

Very well.
I just hope we're prepared for their counter-attacks into Iraq and or Afghanistan.

351 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:15:34pm

re: #321 Bagua

Note that the addition of "progressive" to Tanzis is somewhat of an American adaptation. Certainly many Tranzis are lefties, but many others are not.

Good point.

352 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:15:35pm

re: #292 Bubblehead II

Animal Control just called. Wanted to verify the address of the owner and is trying to make contact.

Good for you for actually doing something.

353 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:00pm

re: #326 KDS1

When Bush was on, they believed hes crazy enough to try invading Iran. Now its obvious that Obama will do anything to prevent it.

Damn it why did American have to elect sane leaders!

354 Kragar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:05pm

Well now, this seems topical...

Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal.

In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran. To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.

“The Saudis have given their permission for the Israelis to pass over and they will look the other way,” said a US defence source in the area. “They have already done tests to make sure their own jets aren’t scrambled and no one gets shot down. This has all been done with the agreement of the [US] State Department.”

Sources in Saudi Arabia say it is common knowledge within defence circles in the kingdom that an arrangement is in place if Israel decides to launch the raid. Despite the tension between the two governments, they share a mutual loathing of the regime in Tehran and a common fear of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “We all know this. We will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing,” said one.

355 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:18pm

re: #348 jamesfirecat

Yeah Bush really showed those Islamic countries what they had to fear if they started to develop nuclear weapons what with how he blew the s*** out of North Korea!

All im saying is that the US was much more intimidating.

356 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:34pm

re: #343 KDS1

Nonsense "Bush would have never do that" or Nonsense "they didnt believe that"?

Both.

357 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:41pm

re: #344 brookly red

you need a better lawyer...

If Obama really needs some ass to kick...

358 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:44pm

re: #341 Gus 802

AGM-158 JASSM Cruise Missile


[Video]

You'd think with the wings on that thing it could land a little more horizontally.
/

359 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:57pm

re: #348 jamesfirecat

Yeah Bush really showed those Islamic countries what they had to fear if they started to develop nuclear weapons what with how he blew the s*** out of North Korea!

OTOH people expected the Won to be able to deal with such a simple foreign relations problem...just have them unclench their fist and we can all have a celebratory picnic amidst the buttercups

360 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:16:58pm

re: #355 KDS1

All im saying is that the US was much more intimidating.

Oh, please.
It's not like we lost a carrier group or two to the ether...

361 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:17:20pm

re: #355 KDS1

All im saying is that the US was much more intimidating.

Meh.

362 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:17:36pm

re: #335 albusteve

pretty much yes...you have a better idea?
spill it

We could at least try to invade with ground troops and reconstruct Iran as a civilized functioning democratic nation with a separation between church and state that won't want to destroy Israel simply for existing.

I'm not saying we'd be able to do it, but we could at least try....

363 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:17:55pm

re: #295 jamesfirecat

I'd support it if it really is the only way to keep Iran from using its nukes, and I'd appreciate it if we raised taxes to pay for this war rather than just passing the buck along.

At the moment I've still got hope that if we leave them alone a little longer they'll have an internal revolution without needing our help...

The goal is not "to keep Iran from using its nukes," rather it is to prevent them from making them in the first place. It worked in Iraq so it will work in Iran.

Hoping for an "internal revolution" is a false hope. The Islamic Revolutionary Guards are heavily armed and ruthless, the people have nothing to fight back with.

Also unicorns coming to the rescue is unlikely.

364 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:17:57pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“We all know this. We will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing,” said one.

The Sgt. Schultz defense.

365 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:18:08pm

re: #353 jamesfirecat

Damn it why did American have to elect sane leaders!

The argument isnt about how good Obama is for internal affairs... Hes not doing well internationally.

366 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:18pm

re: #353 jamesfirecat

Damn it why did American have to elect sane leaders!

you really are a BO goober aren't you?...you are in for a very rude wake up bro....he will cut your throat in a heartbeat if it serves his agenda

367 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:24pm

re: #356 Cato the Elder

Both.

I still think they believed it was likely that the US and Israel will attack.

368 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:26pm

re: #314 Reginald Perrin

It's a silly word that the stalkers use at their cesspool and it usually accompanied by the word progies. It has something to do with one world government and black UN helicopters.

I'd argue the term has some validity if used carefully. The 'activists' calling for international prosecution of the Israelis involved in the boarding of the Gaza Flotilla are indeed Transnational Progressives, seeking to supplant the institutions of Israel with transnational institutions. My beef is that too many on the right throw the term around carelessly, robbing it of its meaning. That's part of why I use it very rarely.

369 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:48pm

We sure intimidated the North Koreans into giving up their nukes!
America, Fuck Yeah.

370 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:53pm

re: #308 darthstar

Oh, god, Steve...I suppose you'd like me to provide the original birth certificate with his little feet prints on it too? It's not my fault you slept through 2009.

Again, uncalled for. Steve is not a birther.

371 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:19:55pm

re: #348 jamesfirecat

Yeah Bush really showed those Islamic countries what they had to fear if they started to develop nuclear weapons what with how he blew the s*** out of North Korea!

Yep, what a pathetic display of impotence that was under Clinton, Bush and now again under Obama. NK has been a bipartisan epic failure of US foreign policy.

372 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:20:54pm

re: #371 Spare O'Lake

Yep, what a pathetic display of impotence that was under Clinton, Bush and now again under Obama. NK has been a bipartisan epic failure of US foreign policy.

THANK YOU.

373 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:21:02pm

re: #365 KDS1

The argument isnt about how good Obama is for internal affairs... Hes not doing well internationally.

The way you phrased it made it sound like George W. Bush appearing crazy to the rest of the world was a feature not a bug...

I disagree....

374 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:21:05pm

re: #369 Varek Raith

We sure intimidated the North Koreans into giving up their nukes!
America, Fuck Yeah.

/we need to restore our street cred... maybe we should nuke BP?

375 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:21:37pm

re: #364 allegro

The Sgt. Schultz defense.

That's the best we can hope for out of the Saudis. I'll allow someone to play that game if its the only way they can stand aside and not hinder me.

376 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:21:37pm

re: #362 jamesfirecat

We could at least try to invade with ground troops and reconstruct Iran as a civilized functioning democratic nation with a separation between church and state that won't want to destroy Israel simply for existing.

I'm not saying we'd be able to do it, but we could at least try...

nothing ventured, nothing gained, you always say!
that's an insane idea and you clearly do not understand the simple problem

377 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:21:45pm

re: #374 brookly red

/we need to restore our street cred... maybe we should nuke BP?

Shit, nuke the whales!!!
Or the oil well.
Or both.
BOOM!

378 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:22:05pm

re: #370 Bagua

Again, uncalled for. Steve is not a birther.

I know he's not a birther. As I explained to him, I was using hyperbole in response to his demands for proof, Proof, PROOF...

379 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:22:23pm

re: #367 KDS1

I still think they believed it was likely that the US and Israel will attack.

If they have any brains at all, they still do.

Youtube Video
380 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:22:31pm

re: #307 KDS1

When Bush was in charge, the muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria) were far more afraid of the Iranian acquiring a nuke then a war with Israel, since they all knew that if they do- they are a danger to them just as much as they are to Israel. But now, when they all see how the US and Europe are handaling this issue, they decided that its much safer to be with Iran, then against it, cause they will get the bomb one way or another.
Thats what being soft does.

Nope. Never seen anything to support that. What will happen is they will all have a mad dash to acquire their own nuclear weapons.

381 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:22:38pm

re: #370 Bagua

Again, uncalled for. Steve is not a birther.

he's in the mud...I'm wondering do I give the boot or feel sorry for him?

382 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:23:07pm

If we have to bomb the Iranian sites, so be it.
I just fear we'd half ass it...

383 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:23:15pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

Shit, nuke the gay whales for Jesus!!!

There ya go.

384 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:23:38pm

re: #381 albusteve

he's in the mud...I'm wondering do I give the boot or feel sorry for him?

Huh?

385 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:09pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

Shit, nuke the whales!!!
Or the oil well.
Or both.
BOOM!

Varek, you're getting antsy. Go use your Death Star to blow up a large asteroid, it'll help take the edge off.

//

386 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:12pm

re: #372 Varek Raith

THANK YOU.

Why do I always have to be the one to speak truth to spin?

387 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:25pm

re: #322 darthstar

...for fifteen years. That means in three years we'll be screaming that they're five years away from having nukes again.

Nope. As long as we maintain over-watch their nuclear program will not be able to restart. Again, that is the lesson of Iraq. Or do you believe the Iraq invasion was necessary to stop the nuclear program?

388 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:32pm

we would...

389 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:39pm

re: #369 Varek Raith

We sure intimidated the North Koreans into giving up their nukes!
America, Fuck Yeah.

Yeah. You know the drill though. We do intimidate North Korea but they just stick their tongues out at us while hiding behind their big brother, The Peoples Republic of China.

390 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:24:54pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

Varek, you're getting antsy. Go use your Death Star to blow up a large asteroid, it'll help take the edge off.

//

Okay.
*Mumbles to himself about those damn Rebels*

391 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:25:34pm

re: #376 albusteve

nothing ventured, nothing gained, you always say!
that's an insane idea and you clearly do not understand the simple problem

Yep that's how you can tell I'm a liberal... because I want to replace the evils of our day with brand new ones!

392 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:26:12pm

re: #387 Bagua

Nope. As long as we maintain over-watch their nuclear program will not be able to restart. Again, that is the lesson of Iraq. Or do you believe the Iraq invasion was necessary to stop the nuclear program?

Iraq didn't have a nuclear program. They gave it up in 1993. Their own nuclear scientists said as much. But if you want the US to spend the next fifty years being the world-cop watching the behavior of everyone on the planet, good luck with that.

393 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:26:15pm

re: #378 darthstar

I know he's not a birther. As I explained to him, I was using hyperbole in response to his demands for proof, Proof, PROOF...

PROOF was your demand you put on Diggs....and I turned it on you...you are weak with your anal, childish PROOF game....like I said to Cato, re-read #92...it was you poodles demanding PROOF for a thing he never said could be proved or even implied it....your game is terrible

394 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:27:08pm

re: #387 Bagua

Nope. As long as we maintain over-watch their nuclear program will not be able to restart. Again, that is the lesson of Iraq. Or do you believe the Iraq invasion was necessary to stop the nuclear program?

the nuke thing is difficult, nukes = respect and lots of countries are looking for respect... I think Iran is looking for more than respect.

395 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:27:14pm

re: #393 albusteve

PROOF was your demand you put on Diggs...and I turned it on you...you are weak with your anal, childish PROOF game...like I said to Cato, re-read #92...it was you poodles demanding PROOF for a thing he never said could be proved or even implied it...your game is terrible

I never asked diggs for proof. I simply mocked him. Sheesh. You are a little sensitive these days.

396 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:27:14pm

re: #373 jamesfirecat

The way you phrased it made it sound like George W. Bush appearing crazy to the rest of the world was a feature not a bug...

I disagree...


re: #379 Cato the Elder

If they have any brains at all, they still do.


[Video]

IF...

397 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:28:20pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

So what we just push a bunch of buttons, launch a bunch of cruse missiles and leave whoever is left alive to do whatever they can with the rubble we leave in our wake?

You are pretty naive about military issues, huh?

1. Cruise missiles are not adequate alone.

2. There is no need to bomb people, just objects such as the various nuclear and missile plants.

3. It is silly to suggest few would be left alive. See #2.

4. The only rubble would be the nuclear and missile plants. They don't need those so the rubble would be no problem.

You should learn a bit about these matters before you debate them so strongly.

398 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:28:21pm

re: #391 jamesfirecat

Yep that's how you can tell I'm a liberal... because I want to replace the evils of our day with brand new ones!

"A radical generally means a man who thinks he could somehow pull up the root without affecting the flower. A conservative generally means a man who wants to conserve everything except his own reason for conserving anything."

--G.K. Chesterton

399 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:28:34pm

BO, friend of Israel

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

and he backed out of a made deal....asshole

[Link: www.worldtribune.com...]

400 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:28:50pm

re: #373 jamesfirecat

The way you phrased it made it sound like George W. Bush appearing crazy to the rest of the world was a feature not a bug...

I disagree...

It was one of his greatest virtues

401 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:29:28pm

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

What is your definition of progressive?

402 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:29:29pm

re: #328 Cato the Elder

Bomb 'em again, then.

Exactly, rinse and repeat. We learned in Iraq that the bombing stopped the nuclear program.

403 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:29:31pm

Later!

404 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:30:04pm

It's astonishing to me that Bill Kristol isn't flipping burgers at a Carl's Jr. Fail upwards!

405 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:30:22pm

re: #393 albusteve

PROOF was your demand you put on Diggs...and I turned it on you...you are weak with your anal, childish PROOF game...like I said to Cato, re-read #92...it was you poodles demanding PROOF for a thing he never said could be proved or even implied it...your game is terrible

Oh yeah...prove it!
Oh yeah?
Yeah!
Yeah?
Yeah!
Prove it!
You prove it!
...mommy's calling, I gotta go.

406 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:30:24pm

re: #402 Bagua

We learned in Iraq that the bombing stopped the nuclear program.

As opposed to the sanctions and inspections?

407 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:30:57pm

re: #395 darthstar

I never asked diggs for proof. I simply mocked him. Sheesh. You are a little sensitive these days.

I defend people treated unfairly as I see....even you, in case you haven't noticed...be nice or brawl, I do either with enthusiasm

408 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:31:13pm

Heh...LA's Log Cabin Republicans to teabag Jerry Brown, Nancy Pelosi, and get this, Teabagger hero Sarah Palin.

"Participants will purchase a tea bag and win a prize if they can successfully throw it through the open mouth of one of three politicians on the game board."

We had to know if this was for real, so we got a hold of Scott Schmidt, president of of Log Cabin-Los Angeles.

He said it was part of their effort to reach out the LGBT community, and, "We figured this year we ought to take it up a notch and do something that is engaging and somewhat amusing and shows that we can even laugh at ourselves."

And the three open-mouthed politicos? Those would be Attorney General and Democratic gubernatorial nominee Jerry Brown, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and former Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

409 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:31:26pm

re: #397 Bagua

You are pretty naive about military issues, huh?

1. Cruise missiles are not adequate alone.

2. There is no need to bomb people, just objects such as the various nuclear and missile plants.

3. It is silly to suggest few would be left alive. See #2.

4. The only rubble would be the nuclear and missile plants. They don't need those so the rubble would be no problem.

You should learn a bit about these matters before you debate them so strongly.

Is there a reason (besides basic human decency and concern for their population) they can't build their nuke plants in the middle of their cities?

410 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:31:56pm

re: #406 allegro

As opposed to the sanctions and inspections?

some thing stop things more verifiability like than others...

411 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:32:02pm

re: #407 albusteve

I defend people treated unfairly as I see...even you, in case you haven't noticed...be nice or brawl, I do either with enthusiasm

Well, all you had to do was say that in the first place, silly. {{{HUGS}}}

412 darthstar  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:33:17pm

Okay...gotta run. Play nice everyone, and check out the sfgate link about the LA teabag party...funny stuff.

413 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:33:40pm

re: #399 albusteve

On the other hand:

US-Israel Arms Cooperation Growing

I think I prefer my source.

414 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:34:38pm

re: #406 allegro

As opposed to the sanctions and inspections?


Right. Though sanctions and inspection are necessary as well, first the Osirak reactor had to be destroyed, along with the air force, missiles, weapons productions plants, etc.

Same with Iran, it is too late for sanctions. They must have their nuclear and missile manufacturing capacity removed. I would be happy to give them a warning and ultimatum first, but if they don't surrender the goods, we must regrettably use force.

415 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:34:40pm

re: #286 Bagua

People? You mean Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all the Gulf States. It is an emerging Shia Islamic superpower. The goal is to stop that.

Great, then why is captdiggs claiming that Turkey, a country who's muslims are ~75% Sunni, is "spinning into the Iranian orbit?" That part doesn't make sense, at all. I get that Turkey is radicalizing, and to an alarming degree for a NATO member, but they have very little in the way of shared interests with Iran.

416 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:35:35pm

re: #413 Obdicut

On the other hand:

US-Israel Arms Cooperation Growing

I think I prefer my source.

it's newer...it's the point that counts...and when all the planets are aligned for Israel to strike at Iran, get back with us with BOs response

417 KingKenrod  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:37:06pm

re: #399 albusteve

BO, friend of Israel

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

and he backed out of a made deal...asshole

[Link: www.worldtribune.com...]

I think it's pretty clear Obama and Israel have a very strained relationship - anyone who says it is healthy isn't paying attention. It could be because of Obama's early missteps, or the fact that the Israelis simply don't trust him...given Israeli intelligence sources, they probably know more about him than he does.

Here's a couple of examples (not in the right-wing press).

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Publicly, Obama has to appear strong on supporting Israel. It's political death otherwise.

418 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:37:11pm

re: #415 goddamnedfrank

Great, then why is captdiggs claiming that Turkey, a country who's muslims are ~75% Sunni, is "spinning into the Iranian orbit?" That part doesn't make sense, at all. I get that Turkey is radicalizing, and to an alarming degree for a NATO member, but they have very little in the way of shared interests with Iran.

Correct, people are saying this but it is nonsense.

419 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:37:57pm

re: #397 Bagua

A number of foreign nuclear techs might be killed in any attack. Which would serve as disincentive for others at other locations in-country. Maybe only one or two large identifiable facilities need to be destroyed to make the point.

420 KingKenrod  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:38:04pm

re: #408 darthstar

Heh...LA's Log Cabin Republicans to teabag Jerry Brown, Nancy Pelosi, and get this, Teabagger hero Sarah Palin.

Jimmy Fallon does a similar bit on his show...only contestants throw hot dog wieners instead of teabags.

421 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:38:13pm

re: #416 albusteve

it's newer...it's the point that counts...and when all the planets are aligned for Israel to strike at Iran, get back with us with BOs response

we are the one's they have been waiting for?

422 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:39:06pm

re: #413 Obdicut

On the other hand:

US-Israel Arms Cooperation Growing

I think I prefer my source.

Your source implicitly admits that Obama reneged on the stealth fighter jet deal by putting it off. He has been openly denying Israel the offensive weapons to mount a more effective attack on the Iranian nukes, while still supplying purely defensive systems.

423 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:39:20pm

re: #421 brookly red

we are the one's they have been waiting for?

gag me

424 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:39:25pm

re: #401 Reginald Perrin

What is your definition of progressive?

I normally use it for those further left than center-left. I try not to use the term 'prog', nor do I use "progressive" all that often.

425 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:40:52pm

re: #422 Spare O'Lake

Your source implicitly admits that Obama reneged on the stealth fighter jet deal by putting it off. He has been openly denying Israel the offensive weapons to mount a more effective attack on the Iranian nukes, while still supplying purely defensive systems.

cooperation growing?...wtf does that mean?, it's political doubletalk....I want to see hardware on the tarmac

426 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:41:50pm
427 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:42:26pm

re: #424 Dark_Falcon

I normally use it for those further left than center-left. I try not to use the term 'prog', nor do I use "progressive" all that often.

progs are some subcult of the Liberal Cult....I don't even thing they have a clue

428 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:42:26pm

re: #415 goddamnedfrank

Great, then why is captdiggs claiming that Turkey, a country who's muslims are ~75% Sunni, is "spinning into the Iranian orbit?" That part doesn't make sense, at all. I get that Turkey is radicalizing, and to an alarming degree for a NATO member, but they have very little in the way of shared interests with Iran.

All true. Turkey is Turkey always has been and always will be. It is not so much that they are spinning into anyone's orbit. More like they are just Turks rising... as if the deck needed another joker.

429 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:43:14pm

re: #422 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, how do you get that out of this?


Among the new initiatives taken by the administration, the Forward has learned, are adjustments in a massive arms deal the Bush administration made with Arab Gulf states in response to Israeli concerns. There have also been upgrades in U.S.-Israeli military cooperation on missile defense. And a deal is expected next year that will see one of the United States’ most advanced fighter jets go to Israel with some of America’s most sensitive new technology.
430 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:43:58pm

re: #425 albusteve

cooperation growing?...wtf does that mean?, it's political doubletalk...I want to see hardware on the tarmac

Obama's doublespeak is wearing kind of thin these days.

431 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:44:19pm

re: #415 goddamnedfrank

Great, then why is captdiggs claiming that Turkey, a country who's muslims are ~75% Sunni, is "spinning into the Iranian orbit?" That part doesn't make sense, at all. I get that Turkey is radicalizing, and to an alarming degree for a NATO member, but they have very little in the way of shared interests with Iran.

Then explain to me why their PM is calling to sign an outrageous deal with Iran regarding their Uranium, and condemning Israel whenever he gets a chance?

432 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:44:27pm

re: #399 albusteve

BO, friend of Israel

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

and he backed out of a made deal...asshole

[Link: www.worldtribune.com...]

Arms sales like this take a long time. You might want to check your sources and update your information. If one were to go the same World Tribune site you would find this:

Obama ends ban on offensive weapons to Israel: 'Smart' systems for 'dumb' bombs

You will however find this:

The sources cited Israeli requests for the AH-64D Apache attack helicopter, the new F-15 stealth fighter-jet, bunker-busters, air refueling systems and advanced reconnaissance equipment.

There is no F-15 stealth fighter-jet. There is an F-15E that is still under development by Boeing which will only have stealthy characteristics. This would be the F-15SE Silent Eagle:

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch.

They are in error there so I suspect the rest of the article is riddled with errors.

433 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:44:28pm

re: #428 brookly red

All true. Turkey is Turkey always has been and always will be. It is not so much that they are spinning into anyone's orbit. More like they are just Turks rising... as if the deck needed another joker.

just wait til that mighty powerhouse Lebanon smacks BO in the face...almost like 'Airport'

434 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:44:58pm

re: #430 Spare O'Lake

Obama's doublespeak is wearing kind of thin these days.

yes and the midterms will show it...

435 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:45:00pm

re: #419 sandbox

A number of foreign nuclear techs might be killed in any attack. Which would serve as disincentive for others at other locations in-country. Maybe only one or two large identifiable facilities need to be destroyed to make the point.

You are saying there are foreign nuclear techs working on the Iranian nuclear program? If so then they must be stopped.

But we can't take the chance, the entire nuclear and missile program should be targeted in the opening hours.

Chances are the US will give a warning first and be bombing empty facilities, with the exception of anti-aircraft missiles which have to be taken out by surprise.

436 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:45:00pm

re: #433 albusteve

just wait til that mighty powerhouse Lebanon smacks BO in the face...almost like 'Airport'

Airplane?...whatever the hell it was called

437 [deleted]  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:46:02pm
438 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:46:04pm

re: #432 Gus 802

yes, excellent

439 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:46:43pm

re: #433 albusteve

just wait til that mighty powerhouse Lebanon smacks BO in the face...almost like 'Airport'

some people will be offended but weakness has consequences.

440 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:47:39pm

re: #429 Obdicut

Sorry, how do you get that out of this?

"...a deal is expected" is doublespeak for "hopefully we'll get the stuff next year that they fucked us out of last year".

441 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:48:34pm

re: #439 brookly red

some people will be offended but weakness has consequences.

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks "some people will be offended but weakness has consequences" sounds like something a supervillian would say?

442 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:48:58pm

re: #440 Spare O'Lake

"...a deal is expected" is doublespeak for "hopefully we'll get the stuff next year that they fucked us out of last year".

Your psychic powers, as always, are astonishing.

Did you read Gus's #432?

443 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:49:39pm

re: #435 Bagua

I'm not sure about giving a warning to those working in nuke facilities. I'm thinking "no". This is war.

444 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:50:18pm

re: #441 jamesfirecat

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks "some people will be offended but weakness has consequences" sounds like something a supervillian would say?

please allow me to introduce my self, I am a man of wealth & taste...

445 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:51:23pm

re: #442 Obdicut

Your psychic powers, as always, are astonishing.

Did you read Gus's #432?

I don't give a shit about the rhetoric in some article....when Israel has what it wants I'll believe it then

446 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:51:34pm

re: #443 sandbox

I'm not sure about giving a warning to those working in nuke facilities. I'm thinking "no". This is war.

Congress declared war?
Link please

447 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:51:49pm

re: #444 brookly red

please allow me to introduce my self, I am a man of wealth & taste...

Do you have a fur-less cat?

448 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:53:14pm

re: #442 Obdicut

Your psychic powers, as always, are astonishing.

Did you read Gus's #432?

Check my predictions file - I've never been wrong yet. Just be thankful I'm not charging you my usual fee.

449 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:53:43pm

re: #446 HoosierHoops

Congress declared war?
Link please

It appears that some at LGF are taking that matter personally in hand. The pecker wagging has been at a fevered pitch.

450 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:53:46pm

re: #431 KDS1

Then explain to me why their PM is calling to sign an outrageous deal with Iran regarding their Uranium, and condemning Israel whenever he gets a chance?

Turkey plays their own game, doesn't mean they're beholden to anyone.

451 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:54:14pm

re: #447 KDS1

Do you have a fur-less cat?

no...
do you have a dishonorable discharge?

452 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:54:21pm

re: #449 allegro

What we need is some pecker duelling ;)

453 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:54:28pm

re: #448 Spare O'Lake

Check my predictions file - I've never been wrong yet. Just be thankful I'm not charging you my usual fee.

Will the world really come to an end on 2012?!

454 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:54:59pm

re: #453 KDS1

You've been here a month, you hsould join the cool kids and get an avatar :D

455 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:55:37pm

re: #445 albusteve

I don't give a shit about the rhetoric in some article...when Israel has what it wants I'll believe it then

That wasn't rhetoric Steve. Those were facts. US arms sales to Israel are notoriously secretive -- for good reason. I don't see why we should advertise those sales to some two bit online newspapers whose only claim to information is "sources." Funny the subject of this thread is based on bogus sources.

456 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:55:52pm

re: #445 albusteve

I don't give a shit about the rhetoric in some article...when Israel has what it wants I'll believe it then

Canceling the F-22 Raptor without allowing Israel to purchase it is likely an attempt to make it impossible for Israel to take out the Iranian nuclear program. By the time the F-35s are delivered it will likely be too late.

457 sandbox  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:55:53pm

re: #446 HoosierHoops

Actually I can't conceive of the US, with Obama as Pres., bombing Iran nuclear sites. It could only happen if Iran attacks the US first--our ships in the gulf (which is not out of the question). That leaves Israel to carry out bombings and they can't and won't give warning.

458 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:55:55pm

re: #453 KDS1

Will the world really come to an end on 2012?!

No, but after I flounce in 2016 the end times shall follow soon thereafter.

459 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:56:02pm

re: #449 allegro

It appears that some at LGF are taking that matter personally in hand. The pecker wagging has been at a fevered pitch.

re: #452 windsagio

What we need is some pecker duelling ;)

Oh, hells bells!
It's that time of the day again, is it?

460 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:56:27pm

re: #450 windsagio

Turkey plays their own game, doesn't mean they're beholden to anyone.

You might wanna check this:

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Turkey have adopted an anti- israel agenda. If your Israel's enemy- your in the club.

461 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:56:30pm

re: #432 Gus 802

lol @ "stealth" F-15.

462 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:56:47pm

re: #456 Bagua

Canceling the F-22 Raptor without allowing Israel to purchase it is likely an attempt to make it impossible for Israel to take out the Iranian nuclear program. By the time the F-35s are delivered it will likely be too late.

+ for Brilliant freakin' satire!

463 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:56:50pm

re: #450 windsagio

Turkey plays their own game, doesn't mean they're beholden to anyone.

they are sucking up to Iran and to Hamas both...wtf are you talking about?....gonna dog out with 'beholden'?...bad choice of words

464 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:57:12pm

re: #458 Spare O'Lake

No, but after I flounce in 2016 the end times shall follow soon thereafter.

Do you have a precise date? I have some plans.

465 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:57:24pm

re: #401 Reginald Perrin

Check your email.

466 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:57:33pm

re: #452 windsagio

What we need is some pecker duelling ;)

OK... I got you scheduled as lightweight contender. the good news is the odds are 2 to 1 ...

467 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:58:17pm

re: #446 HoosierHoops

Congress declared war?
Link please

Attacking is war, even if it isn't declared.

468 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:58:23pm

re: #460 KDS1

its not that simple.

Turkey has always done its own kinda weird thing, and they're not part of the usual arab/islamic axis (and proud that they're not btw). Anti-Israel rhetoric doens't mean you're automatically beholden to Iran or Saudi.

469 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:59:03pm

re: #463 albusteve

they are sucking up to Iran and to Hamas both...wtf are you talking about?...gonna dog out with 'beholden'?...bad choice of words

Would you prefer if I were not talking aboutgonna dog out with beholdenbad choice of words?

470 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:59:26pm

re: #454 windsagio

Its my fourth day

471 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:59:38pm

re: #466 brookly red

Hey now, that was below the belt!

472 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 3:59:56pm

re: #457 sandbox

Actually I can't conceive of the US, with Obama as Pres., bombing Iran nuclear sites. It could only happen if Iran attacks the US first--our ships in the gulf (which is not out of the question). That leaves Israel to carry out bombings and they can't and won't give warning.

Agreed, nothing will happen while Obama is TOTUS, unless Israel acts first.

473 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:00:03pm

re: #468 windsagio

its not that simple.

Turkey has always done its own kinda weird thing, and they're not part of the usual arab/islamic axis (and proud that they're not btw). Anti-Israel rhetoric doens't mean you're automatically beholden to Iran or Saudi.

or you could just say Turks have no love for Arabs...

474 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:00:21pm

re: #470 KDS1

Apparently I don't know the difference between 'May' and 'June'.

Or maybe I thought it was July already >>

475 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:00:38pm

re: #473 brookly red

They also don't like Persians and Kurds tho' >>

476 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:00:44pm

re: #461 JasonA

lol @ "stealth" F-15.

Why is it funny?

477 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:00:56pm

re: #475 windsagio

Or really anybody (ask the Greeks!)

478 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:01:13pm

re: #469 windsagio

Would you prefer if I were not talking aboutgonna dog out with beholdenbad choice of words?

you say Turkey is not beholden to Iran, that is correct Capt Obvious...that hardly allows Turkey off the hook for their flaky behavior, which was your point, no?

479 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:01:13pm

re: #456 Bagua

Canceling the F-22 Raptor without allowing Israel to purchase it is likely an attempt to make it impossible for Israel to take out the Iranian nuclear program. By the time the F-35s are delivered it will likely be too late.

Then why won't we sell them to Japan, or Australia either? Israel isn't special in this regard, for whatever reason the military has decided to guard the F-22 technology like it's the holy freaking grail, it's not some grand strategy to blunt Israel's options against Iran.

480 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:01:28pm

re: #456 Bagua

Canceling the F-22 Raptor without allowing Israel to purchase it is likely an attempt to make it impossible for Israel to take out the Iranian nuclear program. By the time the F-35s are delivered it will likely be too late.

F-22 sales to foreign entities were prohibited since the inception of the F-22. Israel does not need the F-22 to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. Additionally, Israel can find another vendor if needed.

See: Appropriators Approve F-22A Multiyear, But Not Foreign Sales

This was done in 2006.

481 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:01:31pm

At least supervillains have the option of a smartly tailored suit. The heroes are always being stuck with spandex in bright colors.

482 allegro  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:01:38pm

re: #467 Bagua

Attacking is war, even if it isn't declared.

Except when the US does it?

483 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:02:07pm

re: #468 windsagio

its not that simple.

Turkey has always done its own kinda weird thing, and they're not part of the usual arab/islamic axis (and proud that they're not btw). Anti-Israel rhetoric doens't mean you're automatically beholden to Iran or Saudi.

Exactly, there was an Ottoman Empire after all.

484 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #472 Bagua

I'm against the US carrying Israel's water on this anyways. If Israel feels the threat is grave enough to warrant an attack, they're free to take care of it. Its not exactly unexplored Territory here.

485 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:02:16pm

re: #468 windsagio

its not that simple.

Turkey has always done its own kinda weird thing, and they're not part of the usual arab/islamic axis (and proud that they're not btw). Anti-Israel rhetoric doens't mean you're automatically beholden to Iran or Saudi.

Turkey would like to gobble up Israel and Iran both.

486 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #480 Gus 802

F-22 sales to foreign entities were prohibited since the inception of the F-22. Israel does not need the F-22 to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. Additionally, Israel can find another vendor if needed.

See: Appropriators Approve F-22A Multiyear, But Not Foreign Sales

This was done in 2006.

Is Israel getting any F-35s? Just curious.

487 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:03:02pm

re: #478 albusteve

you say Turkey is not beholden to Iran, that is correct Capt Obvious...that hardly allows Turkey off the hook for their flaky behavior, which was your point, no?

Oh, i say turkey is not beholden to iran that is correct capt obviousthat hardly allows turkey off the hook for their flaky behavior which was my point no.

488 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:03:15pm

re: #468 windsagio

its not that simple.

Turkey has always done its own kinda weird thing, and they're not part of the usual arab/islamic axis (and proud that they're not btw). Anti-Israel rhetoric doens't mean you're automatically beholden to Iran or Saudi.

Well u have a point there. Israel actually had very good relations with Turkey for over two decades. But now, with Erdogan as PM, their are shifting quickly to the evil-axis. Not there yet, but surely a reason for concern.

489 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:03:34pm

re: #486 JasonA

Is Israel getting any F-35s? Just curious.

Sooner or later. You know the F-35 has been laden with problems.

490 brookly red  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:03:34pm

re: #475 windsagio

They also don't like Persians and Kurds tho' >>

yeah, like I said Turks rising... hey no big deal we have been encouraging "under developed" nations to step up for a long time... well here we go.

491 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:00pm

re: #490 brookly red

They're allies to us :P

Important allies too!

492 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:03pm

re: #479 goddamnedfrank

Then why won't we sell them to Japan, or Australia either? Israel isn't special in this regard, for whatever reason the military has decided to guard the F-22 technology like it's the holy freaking grail, it's not some grand strategy to blunt Israel's options against Iran.


yes, they are....they are surrounded and outnumbered with few resources and the only democracy in the ME (Iraq?)....I expect that doesn't count to some people

493 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:08pm

re: #479 goddamnedfrank

Then why won't we sell them to Japan, or Australia either? Israel isn't special in this regard, for whatever reason the military has decided to guard the F-22 technology like it's the holy freaking grail, it's not some grand strategy to blunt Israel's options against Iran.

It is speculation, can not be proven.

494 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:25pm

re: #456 Bagua

Canceling the F-22 Raptor without allowing Israel to purchase it is likely an attempt to make it impossible for Israel to take out the Iranian nuclear program.

Do you really believe this?

495 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:36pm

re: #457 sandbox

Actually I can't conceive of the US, with Obama as Pres., bombing Iran nuclear sites. It could only happen if Iran attacks the US first--our ships in the gulf (which is not out of the question). That leaves Israel to carry out bombings and they can't and won't give warning.


Are you freaking nuts? The fucking Russians have never had the Balls to attack the United States Navy..And they have thousands of Nukes..
Do you really think Iran is going to Attack the Navy? One Chinese Silkworm would launch hundreds of Tomahawks missiles and hell on Earth..
The Iranians ain't doing shit..Even if some day they get themselves a dud untested nuke...

496 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:04:49pm

re: #474 windsagio

Apparently I don't know the difference between 'May' and 'June'.

Or maybe I thought it was July already >>

If its July, it means i already failed my exams. I think i still have about a month before that happens.

497 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:05:19pm

Wait, I presumed it was a joke, but I should probably check.

Bagua, do you actually believe that the US cut the F-22 just to make it so Israel can't take out the Iranian nuke program?

498 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:05:58pm

re: #496 KDS1

Yeah, brain bubbles I guess :D

499 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:06:08pm

re: #480 Gus 802

F-22 sales to foreign entities were prohibited since the inception of the F-22. Israel does not need the F-22 to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. Additionally, Israel can find another vendor if needed.

See: Appropriators Approve F-22A Multiyear, But Not Foreign Sales

This was done in 2006.

I disagree, the F-22 would be a game changer. There is no other vendor for the F-22, it is an amazing bit of kit.

500 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:06:46pm

re: #495 HoosierHoops

Are you freaking nuts? The fucking Russians have never had the Balls to attack the United States Navy..And they have thousands of Nukes..
Do you really think Iran is going to Attack the Navy? One Chinese Silkworm would launch hundreds of Tomahawks missiles and hell on Earth..
The Iranians ain't doing shit..Even if some day they get themselves a dud untested nuke...

A few years ago the Iranians did capture a British vessel and held several sailors captive.

501 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:06:53pm

re: #499 Bagua

It was a huge waste of money too, we don't need that powerful or expensive a jet.

502 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:07:20pm

re: #484 windsagio

I'm against the US carrying Israel's water on this anyways. If Israel feels the threat is grave enough to warrant an attack, they're free to take care of it. Its not exactly unexplored Territory here.

and that in a nutshell describes your bigotry....don't come around me when I need a friend, you are poison

503 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:07:22pm

Random, OT, musing:

I took one of my boys to his HS testing today. Obviously, everyone there is a homeschooler, otherwise they get their testing done through the schools.

Now, HS'ing is pretty much a white phenomenom. Usually, the HS'ers you see are white. (In case you are wondering, HS'ers would be the kids in the grocery store or library at the "wrong" time, the kids at any HS-day somewhere, or any specifically HS thing, like HS swim or HS PE.)

Testing today was at least a third not-white, if not half. What does this trend mean? I don't know, but it was interesting, and I don't know what it means, or if it was just isolated.

504 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:07:43pm

re: #495 HoosierHoops

Are you freaking nuts? The fucking Russians have never had the Balls to attack the United States Navy..And they have thousands of Nukes..
Do you really think Iran is going to Attack the Navy? One Chinese Silkworm would launch hundreds of Tomahawks missiles and hell on Earth..
The Iranians ain't doing shit..Even if some day they get themselves a dud untested nuke...

Russians are not Iran. You cant really compare.

505 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:07:54pm

re: #502 albusteve

and that in a nutshell describes your bigotry...don't come around me when I need a friend, you are poison

What about your own bigotrydont come around you what you need a friend im poison?

506 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:07:58pm

re: #486 JasonA

Is Israel getting any F-35s? Just curious.

Yes, but that is, at minimum 5 or 6 years out. Likely too late to stop Iran. The F-22 available now and perfect for the job.

507 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:08:12pm

re: #499 Bagua

I disagree, the F-22 would be a game changer. There is no other vendor for the F-22, it is an amazing bit of kit.

Well, I'm sure it would have been nice but it was already banned. Then you have to consider even if it wasn't banned (2006) could Israel afford it? That's a very expensive aircraft to operate. I think they're fine with their current fleet of F-15s and F-16s. Let's not forget that they also have nuclear weapons.

508 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:08:21pm

re: #501 windsagio

It was a huge waste of money too, we don't need that powerful or expensive a jet.

Says you.

509 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:09:22pm

re: #508 Racer X

Says you.

Well engage. What do we need it for?

Who are we likely to fight that our current airforce doesn't totally overwhelm, with almost zero risk?

510 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:09:50pm

re: #506 Bagua

Yes, but that is, at minimum 5 or 6 years out. Likely too late to stop Iran. The F-22 available now and perfect for the job.

Now this would be perfect for the job. If we ever built it...

Image: fb22_header.jpg

511 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:09:51pm

re: #484 windsagio

I'm against the US carrying Israel's water on this anyways. If Israel feels the threat is grave enough to warrant an attack, they're free to take care of it. Its not exactly unexplored Territory here.

The threat is not only to Iran. The US has a major military presence in the Persian Gulf and Gulf states that has nothing to do with Iran. Also, the US is the Big Satan. The US would not be defending Israel alone.

512 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:10:03pm

re: #508 Racer X

Says you.

It's easy to be selfish and weak.

513 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:10:33pm

re: #500 Racer X

A few years ago the Iranians did capture a British vessel and held several sailors captive.

the Brits handed themselves over...call it captured if you like...if it were 12 Navy Seals there would have been a pink mist a mile in diameter before the pieces parts fell back into the sea

514 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:10:44pm

re: #499 Bagua

I disagree, the F-22 would be a game changer. There is no other vendor for the F-22, it is an amazing bit of kit.

Which is exactly why the Pentagon ain't sharing it, even with our bestest, most awesomest friends ever.

Mine.

515 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:10:51pm

re: #499 Bagua

I disagree, the F-22 would be a game changer. There is no other vendor for the F-22, it is an amazing bit of kit.

That's why we aren't selling it. The fear is that to sell it is to put key information about it into China's hands. The software for both the F-22 and F-35 is subject to extraordinary measures to keep it out of Chinese hands.

516 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:11:23pm

re: #509 windsagio

Well engage. What do we need it for?

Who are we likely to fight that our current airforce doesn't totally overwhelm, with almost zero risk?

Ask Jane.

Lately several countries have claimed their shit is much better than ours.

517 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:11:29pm

re: #512 Spare O'Lake

I challenge you as well, what do we need the F-22 for, especially since we're also developing ANOTHER next generation fighter anyways (not that it matters, our current technology is more than sufficient)?

518 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:12:04pm

re: #505 windsagio

What about your own bigotrydont come around you what you need a friend im poison?

that reply is long worn out...time for a new one!...
if you think I'm a bigot say so and describe it for me, that's only fair

519 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:12:06pm

re: #501 windsagio

It was a huge waste of money too, we don't need that powerful or expensive a jet.

The Space Shuttle was a huge expense as well, as is every Mars mission. The F-22 is a crucial aircraft and I'm sad to see it go. :(

520 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:12:29pm

re: #516 Racer X

Not a very useful link.

If its just a dick-measuring contest, why won't the F-35 work just as well?

521 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:12:41pm

re: #507 Gus 802

Well, I'm sure it would have been nice but it was already banned. Then you have to consider even if it wasn't banned (2006) could Israel afford it? That's a very expensive aircraft to operate. I think they're fine with their current fleet of F-15s and F-16s. Let's not forget that they also have nuclear weapons.

Israel has lots of improvements to the F-16, electronic-wise and mechanical.
It has bigger range then it had when it came out of the factory.

522 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:13:13pm

re: #406 allegro

As opposed to the sanctions and inspections?

Exactly. I see there's a lot of history re-writing in this thread. Remember the Iraq Survey Group Final Report?
[Link: www.globalsecurity.org...]

Senior Regime members failed to anticipate the duration of sanctions and the rigor of UN inspections.

* Saddam initially expected the sanctions would last no more than three years, and many Iraqis doubted the sanctions would be so comprehensive, according to several detainee interviews. These perceptions probably persuaded senior Regime leaders that they could weather a short-lived sanctions regime by making limited concessions, hiding much of their pre-existing weapons and documentation, and even expanding biological warfare potential by enhancing dual-use facilities.
* Following unexpectedly thorough inspections, Saddam ordered Husayn Kamil in July 1991 to destroy unilaterally large numbers of undeclared weapons and related materials to conceal Iraq’s WMD capabilities. This destruction–and Iraq’s failure to document the destruction–greatly complicated UN verification efforts and thereby prolonged UN economic sanctions on Iraq. According to Iraqi Presidential Advisor ‘Amir Hamudi Hasan Al Sa’adi, the unilateral destruction decision was comparable in its negative consequences for Iraq with the decision to invade Kuwait.
* Intrusive inspections also affected potential WMD programs by guaranteeing the presence of inspection teams in Iraqi military, and research and development facilities.
* Sanctions imposed constraints on potential WMD programs through limitations on resources and restraints on imports. The sanctions forced Iraq to slash funding that might have been used to refurbish the military establishment and complicated the import of military goods. Rebuilding the military, including any WMD capability, required an end to sanctions.
* The economic bite of the sanctions instead grew increasingly painful and forced the Regime to adopt an unprecedented range of austerity measures by 1996. Disclosure of new evidence of Iraqi WMD activity following Husayn Kamil’s 1995 flight to Jordan undermined Baghdad’s case before the UN.

Iraq's nuclear weapons program wad dead since 1991. The lesson of Iraq is that bad intelligence combined with a dim-witted, incompetent, trigger-happy Administration was responsible for a massive moral, humanitarian and financial fuck-up, undoubtedly the biggest one since Vietnam.

523 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:13:34pm

re: #520 windsagio

Not a very useful link.

If its just a dick-measuring contest, why won't the F-35 work just as well?

The F-35 isn't an air superiority fighter. We still need something to replace my beloved F-15. I'm not sure the F-22 was it, though. Not at that price.

524 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:13:53pm

re: #504 KDS1

Russians are not Iran. You cant really compare.

Really? We stood down the largest Navy equipped with advanced Nuclear weapons during the Cold War....And we can't deal with Iran Speedboats?
The Navy would fuck up Iran and everybody knows it...
No need to start a war there....

525 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:13:54pm

re: #519 Bagua

The shuttle was a much more valuable expense than the F-22.

A mars mission is still 1 way until we get SUBSTANTIALLY better propulsion technology. That being said, the guy who is willing ot go to Mars knowing he'll die out there would be a damn hero!

526 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:14:16pm

re: #508 Racer X

Says you.

Lewis Guns are a waste of money!
jet power will never replace the camel!
body armor is for sissies!

527 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:14:45pm

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

That's why we aren't selling it. The fear is that to sell it is to put key information about it into China's hands. The software for both the F-22 and F-35 is subject to extraordinary measures to keep it out of Chinese hands.

The Iranian threat is more realistic and proximal that Chinese knockoffs. The Chinese should be our allies, not opponents. We should put an end to cold war era thinking.

528 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:16:06pm

re: #527 Bagua

The Iranian threat is more realistic and proximal that Chinese knockoffs. The Chinese should be our allies, not opponents. We should put an end to cold war era thinking.

Wasn't the F-22 a product of Cold War era thinking?

529 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:16:15pm

re: #517 windsagio

I challenge you as well, what do we need the F-22 for, especially since we're also developing ANOTHER next generation fighter anyways (not that it matters, our current technology is more than sufficient)?

Conventional deterrence and to save US fighter pilots' lives.

530 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:16:32pm

re: #527 Bagua

Why should an oppressive regime that executes and tortures dissidents be our allies?

531 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:16:49pm

re: #520 windsagio

Not a very useful link.

If its just a dick-measuring contest, why won't the F-35 work just as well?

the F35 is no comparison to an F22....the F35 is not a stealth fighter Duh!

532 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:17:02pm

re: #529 Spare O'Lake

The F-15 won't work for that? Where are you planning to fight, Russia?

533 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:17:11pm

re: #530 Obdicut

Why should an oppressive regime that executes and tortures dissidents be our allies?

/Because they don't do it out of belief that their god is bigger than our god!

534 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:17:23pm

re: #522 Nimed

...

Iraq's nuclear weapons program wad dead since 1991. The lesson of Iraq is that bad intelligence combined with a dim-witted, incompetent, trigger-happy Administration was responsible for a massive moral, humanitarian and financial fuck-up, undoubtedly the biggest one since Vietnam.

Bullshit.

535 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #523 JasonA

The F-35 isn't an air superiority fighter. We still need something to replace my beloved F-15. I'm not sure the F-22 was it, though. Not at that price.

they get cheaper the more you build

536 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:18:04pm

re: #525 windsagio

The shuttle was a much more valuable expense than the F-22.

A mars mission is still 1 way until we get SUBSTANTIALLY better propulsion technology. That being said, the guy who is willing ot go to Mars knowing he'll die out there would be a damn hero!

You are lost in space after all.

537 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:18:15pm

re: #531 albusteve

the F35 is no comparison to an F22...the F35 is not a stealth fighter Duh!

Well, it's still a stealth fighter. It's just a multirole fighter.

538 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:18:42pm

re: #524 HoosierHoops

Really? We stood down the largest Navy equipped with advanced Nuclear weapons during the Cold War...And we can't deal with Iran Speedboats?
The Navy would fuck up Iran and everybody knows it...
No need to start a war there...

The war with Russia was a war about who had a bigger nuke in its pants.
Iran is not controlled by some drunken russians, but by fundamentalist, devoted to the destruction of Israel and the US. Their leader is a Holocaust denier, and many times declared that the "jewish-zionist entity" should be destroyed.
Hardly the same case.

539 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:19:54pm

re: #514 goddamnedfrank

Which is exactly why the Pentagon ain't sharing it, even with our bestest, most awesomest friends ever.

Mine.

Heh, good picture. But the Pentagon doesn't set foreign policy, the TOTUS does.

540 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:19:59pm

re: #537 JasonA

Well, it's still a stealth fighter. It's just a multirole fighter.

you have it backwards

541 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:20:09pm

re: #537 JasonA

And it doesn't matter anyways, because we don't really need a superiority fighter at this point, except in hypothetical situations.

I find it funny that all the "OMG THEY WON"T BALANCE THE BUDGET" guys want to throw money at this massively expensive program that we simply don't need right now.

542 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:20:26pm

re: #535 albusteve

they get cheaper the more you build

So? There's a point where the discount has to stop, and by then you're many many many billions in the hole.

Besides... I liked the F-23 better. :)

543 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:21:19pm

re: #520 windsagio

Not a very useful link.

If its just a dick-measuring contest, why won't the F-35 work just as well?

Read up on the difference between the two. Or not.

544 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:21:20pm

re: #532 windsagio

The F-15 won't work for that? Where are you planning to fight, Russia?

When your military is outmanned and half your people have no stomach for a lengthy war, you need the scariest and most overwhelming military hardware that money can buy.

545 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:21:53pm

The US made so many billions from their F-15's, they sold it to half of Europe.

546 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:22:24pm

re: #540 albusteve

you have it backwards

Yes, it's designed more for performance than stealth.

And on the other hand you have the F-117, commonly called the "stealth fighter" back in the day. Which ironically wasn't a fighter at all in the technical sense.

547 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:23:08pm

re: #545 KDS1

The US made so many billions from their F-15's, they sold it to half of Europe.

An awesome bird. Hell, that thing'll probably outlive me at this rate...

548 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:23:29pm

re: #543 Racer X

Sigh, 3 people got the wrong idea from my post, I guess that means I need to rephrase it.

"If the point is to have the newest and shiniest and scariest piece of technology available, won't the next new/shiny/scary thing work just as well?"

The role doesn't matter for my argument at all.

549 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:24:16pm

re: #544 Spare O'Lake

When your military is outmanned and half your people have no stomach for a lengthy war, you need the scariest and most overwhelming military hardware that money can buy.

Who are you planning on fighting that has us 'Outmanned'?

550 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:24:32pm

re: #519 Bagua

The Space Shuttle was a huge expense as well, as is every Mars mission. The F-22 is a crucial aircraft and I'm sad to see it go. :(

The Space Shuttle is a grotesquely inefficient boondoggle, that in the initial call for proposals was described as a "space truck." It can't get us past low earth orbit and each launch costs about as much as the entire first Mars rover mission combined. The F-22 fighter costs about as much as the entire second Mars rover mission, per aircraft, and has been deemed too dangerous to ever sell, even to allies.

The Mars rovers on the other hand exceeded their projected lifespans by orders of magnitude, and bang for the buck represent two of the most scientifically productive NASA missions ever undertaken.

551 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:02pm

re: #548 windsagio

Sigh, 3 people got the wrong idea from my post, I guess that means I need to rephrase it.

"If the point is to have the newest and shiniest and scariest piece of technology available, won't the next new/shiny/scary thing work just as well?"

The role doesn't matter for my argument at all.

OK.

The F-22 is a Corvette ZR1.
The F-35 is a Chrysler 300C with no hemi.

552 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:07pm
Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you - just one word.
Ben: Yes sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Ben: Yes I am.
Mr. McGuire: 'Plastics UAVs.'
Ben: Exactly how do you mean?
Mr. McGuire: There's a great future in plastics UAVs. Think about it. Will you think about it?
Ben: Yes I will.
Mr. McGuire: Shh! Enough said. That's a deal.
553 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:10pm

re: #534 Bagua

Bullshit.

lol

Is this still up for discussing? Really? Because last I checked, the arguments of even former Bushies staunchest supporters are now "Saddam was bad!" or "you know, in time this may turn out to not have been a completely bad thing".

554 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:36pm

re: #538 KDS1

The war with Russia was a war about who had a bigger nuke in its pants.
Iran is not controlled by some drunken russians, but by fundamentalist, devoted to the destruction of Israel and the US. Their leader is a Holocaust denier, and many times declared that the "jewish-zionist entity" should be destroyed.
Hardly the same case.

If I was the Leader of the Free world.. I'd tell any nation that would mess with Israel they were messing with the United States..
I'd call Shortjacket on the red phone and let him know I had his GPS coordinates Dialed into a wicked ICBM Multi warhead Long range missile.
Now..Shut the fuck up and back up pal.. I'm a simple man

555 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:52pm

re: #551 Racer X

Doesn't matter for my point :P

556 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:25:56pm

re: #548 windsagio

Sigh, 3 people got the wrong idea from my post, I guess that means I need to rephrase it.

"If the point is to have the newest and shiniest and scariest piece of technology available, won't the next new/shiny/scary thing work just as well?"

The role doesn't matter for my argument at all.

Build what you presently have now, and build what you have on the drawing board later. It's really very simple.

557 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:26:14pm

re: #552 Gus 802

See that was freakin' funny :D

558 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:26:49pm

re: #556 Spare O'Lake

I just don't want to hear you complaining about budget deficits then :p

559 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:27:34pm

re: #507 Gus 802

Well, I'm sure it would have been nice but it was already banned. Then you have to consider even if it wasn't banned (2006) could Israel afford it? That's a very expensive aircraft to operate. I think they're fine with their current fleet of F-15s and F-16s. Let's not forget that they also have nuclear weapons.

It was debatable in 2006, but as the Iranian threat has grown, we were dealing with a new situation in 2009.

But no, they are not fine with the current aircraft. Israel has been after a couple dozen F-22's for some time now and they most certainly want the F-35 to replace the aging F-16s.

If the F-35s could have been ready in time, well that's a different matter. We really do not want Israel to feel the need to resort to nuclear weapons.

560 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:28:56pm

re: #549 windsagio

Who are you planning on fighting that has us 'Outmanned'?

America is currently stetched so thin in Iraq and Afghanistan that it would be very difficult for it to handle an additional major conflict.

561 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:29:57pm

re: #542 JasonA

So? There's a point where the discount has to stop, and by then you're many many many billions in the hole.

Besides... I liked the F-23 better. :)

many many billions is chump change to BO....buying off unions is more important than our security and that of our allies

562 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:30:41pm

re: #559 Bagua

If the F-35s could have been ready in time, well that's a different matter. We really do not want Israel to feel the need to resort to nuclear weapons.

Because, you know, it's really either one or the other.

563 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:31:00pm

re: #549 windsagio

Who are you planning on fighting that has us 'Outmanned'?

liberals

564 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:31:10pm

re: #560 Spare O'Lake

That's what we call a 'dodge'.

Who. Will. The. US. Fight. That. Will. Have. Our. Airforce. Outmanned, Especially. Since. We. Already. Have. Some. F-22s.

565 Racer X  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:31:28pm

1943
"Why are we spending so much money on those damn nucular bomb thingys? The technology is unproven. They may not work at all. And the whole program is just too damn expensive. We need to scrap it. We have perfectly good bombs now. "

1945
Hundreds of thousands of lives were saved when we used 2 bombs.

566 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:31:29pm

re: #563 albusteve

See that was funny :)

567 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:14pm

re: #565 Racer X

That's comparing grapes and durian, man.

568 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:24pm

re: #563 albusteve

liberals

Nice zinger there. :D

569 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:34pm

re: #550 goddamnedfrank

I do love the Mars rovers. But I disagree that the F-22 was too secret to sell to Israel. All this fear about China... the US should sell them to China as well. China and the US should be military allies, not opponents.

570 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #565 Racer X

1943
"Why are we spending so much money on those damn nucular bomb thingys? The technology is unproven. They may not work at all. And the whole program is just too damn expensive. We need to scrap it. We have perfectly good bombs now. "

1945
Hundreds of thousands of lives were saved when we used 2 bombs.

Damn, guess this is why we let our budgets be decided by those in office rather than random people on the street....

571 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:46pm

re: #564 windsagio

That's what we call a 'dodge'.

Who. Will. The. US. Fight. That. Will. Have. Our. Airforce. Outmanned, Especially. Since. We. Already. Have. Some. F-22s.

that's what I call a dodge, make up your own fucking terms...and grow up, your posts are ridiculous

572 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:32:48pm

re: #564 windsagio

That's what we call a 'dodge'.

Who. Will. The. US. Fight. That. Will. Have. Our. Airforce. Outmanned, Especially. Since. We. Already. Have. Some. F-22s.

The Chinese?

573 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:33:11pm

re: #559 Bagua

It was debatable in 2006, but as the Iranian threat has grown, we were dealing with a new situation in 2009.

But no, they are not fine with the current aircraft. Israel has been after a couple dozen F-22's for some time now and they most certainly want the F-35 to replace the aging F-16s.

If the F-35s could have been ready in time, well that's a different matter. We really do not want Israel to feel the need to resort to nuclear weapons.

Yeah, the biggest stumbling block with the F-35 was that it was overweight. The USA also needs it to replace our aging F-15s and F-16s. It will also replace the Navy's F-18s excepts for the Super Hornets which should be in service alongside the F-35s.

Off the shelf the F-18E/F Super Hornet is a good alternative even though it is not stealth. UAVs will eventually replace almost all manned combat aircraft. Not saying that I like the idea but that's the way things are going.

574 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:34:12pm

re: #565 Racer X

We decided, however, to spend money on nuclear bombs and not, say, intercontinental ballistic missiles. That was a good choice.

It's about choice.

575 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:34:21pm

re: #562 Nimed

Because, you know, it's really either one or the other.

You are probably correct. If Iran is not stopped from acquiring nuclear weapons then it becomes a nuclear confrontation.

576 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:35:02pm

re: #573 Gus 802

Yeah, the biggest stumbling block with the F-35 was that it was overweight. The USA also needs it to replace our aging F-15s and F-16s. It will also replace the Navy's F-18s excepts for the Super Hornets which should be in service alongside the F-35s.

Off the shelf the F-18E/F Super Hornet is a good alternative even though it is not stealth. UAVs will eventually replace almost all manned combat aircraft. Not saying that I like the idea but that's the way things are going.

All to prevent casualties.

577 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #571 albusteve

that's what I call a dodge, make up your own fucking terms...and grow up, your posts are ridiculous

Does that question interest you?

578 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:35:26pm

re: #564 windsagio

That's what we call a 'dodge'.

Who. Will. The. US. Fight. That. Will. Have. Our. Airforce. Outmanned, Especially. Since. We. Already. Have. Some. F-22s.

No dodge on my part. I guess you don't know what outmanned means. Go back and read my comment and I think you will see that it is you who is doing the shuffle.

579 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:35:41pm

re: #572 KDS1

Man I hate to say this, but if we fight the Chinese anywhere near China we're Fucked anyways.

580 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:36:02pm

re: #569 Bagua

I do love the Mars rovers. But I disagree that the F-22 was too secret to sell to Israel. All this fear about China... the US should sell them to China as well. China and the US should be military allies, not opponents.

Sorry, not going to happen. A China is too insular, and the US too concerned with human rights to allow an alliance.

/I'm not saying we are wrong to be so concerned, but rather that said concern means that we won't ally with a nation with China's record and practices.

581 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:36:47pm

re: #579 windsagio

Man I hate to say this, but if we fight the Chinese anywhere near China we're Fucked anyways.

Hell if we fight China all they have to do is pull an Ankh Morepork on us and point out how they already own all of our weapons and then repossess them...

582 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:36:50pm

re: #578 Spare O'Lake

Listen, just tell me who you expect to fight that requires a ton of stealth air superiority fighters. 'Cuz let me tell you, its nobody we're fighting currently.

583 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:37:24pm

re: #581 jamesfirecat

Heh, we could just default, if we're at war nobody would blame us :D

584 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:38:20pm

re: #583 windsagio

Heh, we could just default, if we're at war nobody would blame us :D

And then if we win we can force them to hand over all their money!

585 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:38:42pm

re: #581 jamesfirecat

The amount of our debt that China holds is routinely exaggerated.

586 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:39:08pm

Hey, don't forget. The F-117 was developed by using an "acquired" scientific study on stealth by a Russian (the USSR) scientist.

Petr Ufimtsev

USAF translation from 1971: [Link: www.dtic.mil...]

587 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:39:15pm

re: #579 windsagio

Man I hate to say this, but if we fight the Chinese anywhere near China we're Fucked anyways.

They have massive numbers and no regard for human lives. Thats an advantage.

588 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:39:53pm

re: #580 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, not going to happen. A China is too insular, and the US too concerned with human rights to allow an alliance.

/I'm not saying we are wrong to be so concerned, but rather that said concern means that we won't ally with a nation with China's record and practices.

I know, but I wonder if we couldn't make more progress on important issues like human rights if we were military allies instead of opponents? As it is, the US is financing the Chinese military, why not make it official? It is unthinkable to have war between the US and China, so let's work on peace and prosperity.

The Pentagon is a bit too locked in the cold war mentality in my (commie) opinion.

589 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:40:19pm

re: #579 windsagio

Man I hate to say this, but if we fight the Chinese anywhere near China we're Fucked anyways.

well you're an obvious expert...all those Chinese carriers etc....you have no stomach for a fight regardless of how righteous it is....pacifism makes me sick

590 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:40:38pm

re: #584 jamesfirecat

And then if we win we can force them to hand over all their money!

You mean, all your money.

591 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:41:17pm

re: #589 albusteve

well you're an obvious expert...all those Chinese carriers etc...you have no stomach for a fight regardless of how righteous it is...pacifism makes me sick

Do you think coming here will help you not to be sick?

592 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:41:17pm

re: #585 Obdicut

The amount of our debt that China holds is routinely exaggerated.

Good point, and they are rapidly unwinding what they do hold.

593 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:42:00pm

re: #587 KDS1

They have massive numbers and no regard for human lives. Thats an advantage.

actually it isn't..think it through, do you expect the Marines to invade Peking?

594 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:42:03pm

re: #588 Bagua

I tend to think Detente was a mistake (with hindsight), and wihle I agree we can't afford war with China, we also shouldn't cozy up to one of the more unpleasant regimes in the world.

595 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:42:45pm

re: #593 albusteve

actually it isn't..think it through, do you expect the Marines to invade Peking?

If you really want to win such a war- yes.

596 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:43:11pm

re: #591 windsagio

Do you think coming here will help you not to be sick?

pacifism has gotten more people killed than all wars total....peace pussies

597 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:43:39pm

re: #582 windsagio

Listen, just tell me who you expect to fight that requires a ton of stealth air superiority fighters. 'Cuz let me tell you, its nobody we're fighting currently.

Time for the bottom line: is there anyone you WOULD be prepared to fight, and if so, wouldn't you want to be sure of having overwhelming air superiority?

598 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:43:49pm

re: #596 albusteve

pacifism has gotten more people killed than all wars total...peace pussies

Please go on.

599 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:44:11pm

re: #596 albusteve

pacifism has gotten more people killed than all wars total...peace pussies

9 terrorists died last week due to pacifism.

600 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:44:56pm

re: #594 windsagio

I tend to think Detente was a mistake (with hindsight), and wihle I agree we can't afford war with China, we also shouldn't cozy up to one of the more unpleasant regimes in the world.

Yet the US does a vast amount of business with them. The US and China are already in bed economically, there shouldn't be any knives under the covers.

601 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:46:05pm

re: #597 Spare O'Lake

Anybody I would be willing to fight (like I can accept Afghanistan), we already have complete air superiority.

The only places that can really challenge us are either allies, or places like China or Russia where we really shouldn't fight them.

And you're still unwilling to answer my question, altho' I decided to let you try to turn it around in order to be polite!

602 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:46:15pm

re: #594 windsagio

I tend to think Detente was a mistake (with hindsight), and wihle I agree we can't afford war with China, we also shouldn't cozy up to one of the more unpleasant regimes in the world.

yet you are willing to cozy up with Hamas....you are a hypocrit

603 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:46:19pm

re: #573 Gus 802

UAVs will eventually replace almost all manned combat aircraft. Not saying that I like the idea but that's the way things are going.


You think so? Are we that close to UAVs that can re: #596 albusteve

pacifism has gotten more people killed than all wars total...peace pussies


I am now dumber for having read this.

604 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:46:27pm

The proposed Type-R "missile truck" variant of the B1 Lancer looks like an interesting and cost effective way of greatly magnifying our few existing Raptors ability to project force.

605 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:46:58pm

re: #600 Bagua

If it were possible I wish we could back off from our ties a bit actually, but there's probably no way at this point.

606 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:47:18pm

re: #580 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, not going to happen. A China is too insular, and the US too concerned with human rights to allow an alliance.

/I'm not saying we are wrong to be so concerned, but rather that said concern means that we won't ally with a nation with China's record and practices.

I agree. In my opinion, a military conflict with China is extremely unlikely, (thank God for trade). China is a "threat" to the extent that other countries may feel tempted to emulate their political system.

607 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:47:29pm

re: #602 albusteve

yet you are willing to cozy up with Hamas...you are a hypocrit

Does it please you to believe I am willing to cozy up with hamas im a hypocrit?

608 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:47:46pm

re: #592 Bagua

Good point, and they are rapidly unwinding what they do hold.

No, that's not true. They've talked about it, but what are they going to buy instead?

Can you explain why you said we should be allies with them? They're an oppressive regime that tortures and kills dissidents. They also don't allow religious freedom.

Why do you think the US should be allies with a nation like that?

609 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:48:09pm

re: #603 JasonA

Not the Gus part.

610 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:48:22pm

re: #607 windsagio

Does it please you to believe I am willing to cozy up with hamas im a hypocrit?

Oh Eliza, why can't I quit you?

611 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:48:27pm

re: #602 albusteve

yet you are willing to cozy up with Hamas...you are a hypocrit

"I loves me some downdings."

612 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:49:12pm

re: #610 Obdicut

QUIET YOU!

613 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:49:22pm

re: #610 Obdicut

Did you figure it out on your own btw?

614 albusteve  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:49:32pm

re: #607 windsagio

Does it please you to believe I am willing to cozy up with hamas im a hypocrit?

I'm ambivalent
you are not alone

615 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:49:53pm

re: #601 windsagio

Anybody I would be willing to fight (like I can accept Afghanistan), we already have complete air superiority.

The only places that can really challenge us are either allies, or places like China or Russia where we really shouldn't fight them.

And you're still unwilling to answer my question, altho' I decided to let you try to turn it around in order to be polite!

China and Russia have been known to supply weapons, including offensive aircraft, to America's enemies. Don't be so naive.

616 Nimed  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:50:16pm

re: #610 Obdicut

Oh Eliza, why can't I quit you?

re: #612 windsagio

QUIET YOU!

We were all in it. Hurray for us!

617 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:50:26pm

re: #604 goddamnedfrank

The proposed Type-R "missile truck" variant of the B1 Lancer looks like an interesting and cost effective way of greatly magnifying our few existing Raptors ability to project force.

Awesome video, thanks.

618 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:51:03pm

re: #608 Obdicut

No, that's not true. They've talked about it, but what are they going to buy instead?

Can you explain why you said we should be allies with them? They're an oppressive regime that tortures and kills dissidents. They also don't allow religious freedom.

Why do you think the US should be allies with a nation like that?

They have oil?

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about Saudi Arabia...

(Hurts me to say it, but its true isn't it?)

619 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:52:34pm

re: #615 Spare O'Lake

Lol, you just won't commit will you?

I think we're done, since you're obviously unwilling to actually take part in good faith.

620 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:52:40pm

re: #613 windsagio

Did you figure it out on your own btw?

Of course. I use it too.

621 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:52:50pm

re: #615 Spare O'Lake

China and Russia have been known to supply weapons, including offensive aircraft, to America's enemies. Don't be so naive.

The russians just cancelled a deal with Iran for S-300 missiles. Just think about what they already sold them...

622 Gus  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:53:17pm

re: #603 JasonA

You think so? Are we that close to UAVs that can.

I don't know what the schedule is compared with the F-35 which is next in line. But the trend is definitely with UAVs. They're cheaper, don't require the amount of pilot training and associated costs, they can be available in larger numbers due to lower costs, etc. None of this will occur overnight though.

If there ever comes a time when they replace all combat aircraft it will be a bit depressing. Somehow, I couldn't see a Blue Angels flight display being flown by remotely operated UAVs. That would be like going to your local RC field.

623 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:53:22pm

re: #620 Obdicut

Something I did not know!

Freakin' awesome!

624 KDS1  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:54:49pm
Youtube Video
625 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:57:38pm

re: #622 Gus 802

UAV's also have the advantage that if they're shot down, you don't have a pilot injured/killed.

626 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:58:14pm

re: #608 Obdicut

No, that's not true. They've talked about it, but what are they going to buy instead?
...

Oh, it certainly is true, you're just not aware of it.

CHINA continued to sell US Treasuries in December, dropping to the second-largest foreign holder after Japan, raising concerns of a permanent shift out of the US dollar.

627 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 4:58:54pm

Lets take an aside for a moment.

You've been substantially more combative the last week or so Bagua, are you okay?

(seriously, no snark intended)

628 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:00:01pm

re: #622 Gus 802

I don't know what the schedule is compared with the F-35 which is next in line. But the trend is definitely with UAVs. They're cheaper, don't require the amount of pilot training and associated costs, they can be available in larger numbers due to lower costs, etc. None of this will occur overnight though.

If there ever comes a time when they replace all combat aircraft it will be a bit depressing. Somehow, I couldn't see a Blue Angels flight display being flown by remotely operated UAVs. That would be like going to your local RC field.

Heh. I hadn't finished that sentence. I was thinking about how well they could perform air-to-air missions.

629 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:00:30pm

re: #627 windsagio

Lets take an aside for a moment.

You've been substantially more combative the last week or so Bagua, are you okay?

(seriously, no snark intended)

Back to your fatuous internet psychology?

630 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:00:35pm

re: #626 Bagua

They were the second-largest foreign holder a year or two ago, too. They haven't sold that many. It's a small political gesture, and they have been simultaneously buying longer-term US bonds.

Why are you dodging the question about why we should be allies with the Chinese? Your statement doesn't go away, you know.

631 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:03:34pm

Heading two threads upstairs...

632 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:03:38pm

re: #619 windsagio

Lol, you just won't commit will you?

I think we're done, since you're obviously unwilling to actually take part in good faith.

I answered you. Are you an idiot?
1. You admitted that Russia and China could at some point threaten US air superiority. That alone is reason enough.
2. You ignored the likelihood that Russia and China would sell advanced aircraft to any number of countries who are or could be US enemies. That too is reason enough.
3. In case you didn't notice Russia was/still is on the verge of supplying advanced SAM systems to Iran. Don't you think America should always maximize its ability and the ability of its allies to have fighters that cannot be shot down by SAMs? Also reason enough.

633 windsagio  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:03:54pm

re: #629 Bagua

*sigh* oh well.

634 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:04:20pm

re: #630 Obdicut

They were the second-largest foreign holder a year or two ago, too. They haven't sold that many. It's a small political gesture, and they have been simultaneously buying longer-term US bonds.

You are obviously uninformed. The Great Unwind is proceeding quietly, as I said, to avoid panicking the horses.

Why are you dodging the question about why we should be allies with the Chinese? Your statement doesn't go away, you know.

I'm not dodging, you're pestering. I'm not interested in that debate.

635 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:05:39pm

re: #627 windsagio

Lets take an aside for a moment.

You've been substantially more combative the last week or so Bagua, are you okay?

(seriously, no snark intended)

You really are a low little scumball.

636 bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:06:11pm

re: #631 Dark_Falcon

Heading two threads upstairs...

Yikes! What happened? I'm on my way to join you.

637 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:28:16pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

A guest mentioned that at the Constitutional Convention the shutters were nailed closed so the delegates could debate in secret (to allowed them to change their minds during debate without being publicly branded as a flip-flopper), and Beck said "Like the Bilderbergs.". Only three words but each one requiring a facepalm. The EPIC FAIL was that bad.

The Bilderbergs nail their shutters closed?

/

638 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 5:45:03pm

re: #634 Bagua

I'm not dodging, you're pestering. I'm not interested in that debate.

You can't defend your statement and you're dodging the question.


You are obviously uninformed. The Great Unwind is proceeding quietly, as I said, to avoid panicking the horses.

Yes, that must be it. I'm uninformed, and you think that we should make them our allies despite their incredible abuses of their own citizenry.

Nifty.

639 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 6:18:31pm

Every now and then something like this finds its way into my mailbox from yet another, well-intentioned Zionist soul. Usually the mood of the email is frantic, similar (sadly) to that of Pamela Geller. As is typical of me, I research the claim, find it's bogus and relay the information to the sender. In fact, as soon as I read this post, I checked my primary email for a similar message but found nothing of the sort.

On another note, working for the Census has taught me one thing and one thing well:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

That's so on point.

640 Bagua  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 6:58:18pm

re: #638 Obdicut

Yes, that must be it. I'm uninformed, and you think that we should make them our allies despite their incredible abuses of their own citizenry.

Nifty.

Stop putting words in my mouth to demonise me. It is odious.

641 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 10:10:49pm

re: #331 darthstar

Twinkey Flats in the wonderful Tragic Valley.............

I love it to. Home of the infamous Evil Kenival Snake River Canyon jump that BTW his son wants to try again.

642 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 11, 2010 10:37:55pm

re: #640 Bagua

Stop putting words in my mouth to demonise me. It is odious.

You said that we should make them our allies. They do abuse the shit out of their own citizenry. You refuse to explain your position.

Cool.

643 richard12  Sat, Jun 12, 2010 8:40:05am

Israelis, not right wing fanatics, just fed up.

This blog post reviews what happened to the Israeli left over the years since the start of the second intifada, and how it is that while the Israel left, who desire peace and coexistence, have lost the belief that the other side desires the same thing, and has become fed up with international institutions that are deligitmizing Israel's right to self defense almost in concert with terrorists that attack Israeli civillians.


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Cheechako
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Views: 116 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 278 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1