Alabama GOP Candidate: ‘Gather Your Armies’

Wingnuts • Views: 5,213

We have a new candidate for “craziest tea party candidate:” Rick Barber, running for Congress in the GOP primary in Alabama’s 2nd District, who created the following advertisement showing him stroking a Revolutionary War pistol and calling for President Obama to be impeached, and concluding with a “founding father” who snarls, “Gather your armies.”

Youtube Video

The incitement is right in your face here, but of course Barber denies it.

UPDATE at 6/14/10 11:55:08 am:

And in a classic case of moronic convergence, Rick Barber proudly boasts at his website about winning the endorsement of anti-Muslim hateblogger Pamela Geller.

Rick Barber earns Atlas Endorsement, Interviewed by Pamela Geller at C-PAC
Friday, February 19th, 2010

WASHINGTON – Rick Barber won another big endorsement yesterday.

On Wednesday afternoon, February 18th at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel in Washington, DC, Pamela Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog interviewed and endorsed Rick Barber.

“Pamela was a firecracker,” says Rick Barber.  “She’s intelligent, witty, conservative and tenacious.  I’m proud to have her endorsement.”

Pamela Geller writes one of the most widely read conservative blogs in America.  In 2008, she took third place in an online vote for the best conservative blogs in the country.

Read below about Pamela Geller according to Conservatism Today:

Pamela Geller had a fine career in the mainstream media before the attacks of 9/11 forced her to rethink her viewpoint. Now she authorsAtlas Shrugs, and (I just learned) has a local radio show here in Phoenix that I will be sure to check out. Her blog is full of high-quality, original content that you are unlikely to find elsewhere on your own. She mainly focuses on the War on Terror, and does so from her religious point of view. Still, she is a great source for information on the ongoing war, on foreign policy, and on Islamo-fascism. From time to time she focuses on other conservative concerns as well. I check in a couple times a week to see what’s new.

(Hat tip: Gus 802.)

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483 comments
1 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:47:45am

I am snarkless... wow

2 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:48:51am

The Secret Service will be knocking on his door any day now.

As an aside, I have to wonder: Do these anti-government types get freaked out at the fact that the President's personal bodyguard is called the "Secret Service"? Surely that must set off all kinds of alarm bells in the wackos' heads.

3 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:49:07am

You should add Barber's other video...

4 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:49:38am

This... this is like open sedition isn't it? Shouldn't this guy be getting a visit from some men in dark suits along with any TV station that airs this aid?

5 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:51:58am

I know the type, there are plenty of them in this part of the world.
Mostly they are incensed that they aren't good at basketball and "others" are. We can probably find Bob out at 5 in the morning, jogging around his church athletic complex and giving the go-to-hell glare to any homeless types or other less than blessed folks who might be wandering around.

6 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:52:26am

re: #4 jamesfirecat

This... this is like open sedition isn't it? Shouldn't this guy be getting a visit from some men in dark suits along with any TV station that airs this aid?

My guess is that both he and the stations that run this have also run it by their lawyers first.

7 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:52:26am

re: #4 jamesfirecat

This... this is like open sedition isn't it? Shouldn't this guy be getting a visit from some men in dark suits along with any TV station that airs this aid?

These ads aren't made for TV. They're made for the internet. But Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. will air them several times in the next week free of charge as "news" items.

8 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:52:53am

It's only seditious by implication, and thus protected by the 1st amendment. It isn't explicit, so it's completely legal.

It's also dangerously stupid, and not at all surprising.

9 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:53:07am

re: #5 Shiplord Kirel

Jogging around the church athletic complex in his mall ninja gear, don't forget.

10 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:53:15am

re: #6 brookly red

My guess is that both he and the stations that run this have also run it by their lawyers first.

Not if they're running it as a "news" item..."Does this ad go too far? You be the judge!"

11 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:53:58am

Apparently sedition is the new patriotism.

12 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:54:43am

re: #10 darthstar

Not if they're running it as a "news" item..."Does this ad go too far? You be the judge!"

see Fozzie's #8

13 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:55:13am

In order to properly love your country, you must attempt to destroy it. Sickness is health. War is peace. Ignorance is strength.

14 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:56:06am

re: #8 Fozzie Bear

It's only seditious by implication, and thus protected by the 1st amendment. It isn't explicit, so it's completely legal.

It's also dangerously stupid, and not at all surprising.

Well then I at least hope that some men in dark suits are keeping an eye on him, I mean clearly he's nuttier than an a snickers....

15 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:56:07am

"Gather your armies"

Ok, Bob, you're on. You collect what you have, I'll take the 82nd Airborne and we will meet at the place of your choosing.

16 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:56:39am

re: #8 Fozzie Bear

It's only seditious by implication, and thus protected by the 1st amendment. It isn't explicit, so it's completely legal.

It's also dangerously stupid, and not at all surprising.

All that, for sure. But also, let's face it, fucking hilarious.

17 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:57:04am

re: #11 Renaissance_Man

Apparently sedition is the new patriotism.

actually the concept of talking with the founders is quite creative, it's is the pistol that should have been edited out.

18 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:57:10am

re: #15 Shiplord Kirel

"Gather your armies"

Ok, Bob, you're on. You collect what you have, I'll take the 82nd Airborne and we will meet at the place of your choosing.

New Mexico!

19 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:57:29am

Re-post:

Oh, my. The flintlocks! Gather. Your. Armies. This stuff is hilarious!

From the TPM article:

[Candidate Rick] Barber said that using the phrase "gather your armies" and stroking revolutionary-era pistols could lead some to get the wrong impression of his message -- but there's nothing that can be done about that.

20 Summer Seale  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:57:40am

It is amazing to me how incredibly stupid these Teabaggers are.

There is all the difference in the world between raising taxes without representation, and raising taxes by a representative government!

These bloody morons need to shut the hell up and learn their basics in history class before they open their vacuous and vile mouths again and again.

21 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:57:58am

Mah Pantaloons iz revolting!

22 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:58:46am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Mah Pantaloons iz revolting!

try goldbond powder...

23 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:59:08am

re: #17 brookly red

actually the concept of talking with the founders is quite creative, it's is the pistol that should have been edited out.

And the "gather your armies" line, I mean it couldn't have even been a dog whistley "gather your men" they had to out and out say "armies"....

24 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 9:59:19am

re: #20 Summer

These bloody morons need to shut the hell up and learn their basics in history class before they open their vacuous and vile mouths again and again.


That won't help. They have their own revised history and alternate reality.

25 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:00:03am

re: #19 Nimed

Re-post:

Oh, my. The flintlocks! Gather. Your. Armies. This stuff is hilarious!

From the TPM article:

[Candidate Rick] Barber said that using the phrase "gather your armies" and stroking revolutionary-era pistols could lead some to get the wrong impression of his message -- but there's nothing that can be done about that.

Can we get Mr. Barber to tell us what the actual message he was trying to send was?

Maybe it was "Be at Renfair this 4th of July!"

26 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:00:44am

re: #23 jamesfirecat

And the "gather your armies" line, I mean it couldn't have even been a dog whistley "gather your men" they had to out and out say "armies"...

I wonder if that is a direct historical quote...

27 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:01:31am

re: #2 thedopefishlives

Do these anti-government types get freaked out at the fact that the President's personal bodyguard is called the "Secret Service"?


Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

28 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:01:41am

"Today we have what they call a progressive income tax."

And by today, Rick Barber means since 1913.

29 William of Orange  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:01:46am

Let there be at least some sensible Republicans who deny this asshole his progress.

30 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:02:20am

re: #29 William of Orange

Let there be at least some sensible Republicans who deny this asshole his progress.

Let's just hope he loses the general election if he gets through the primary.

31 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:02:45am

re: #25 jamesfirecat

Can we get Mr. Barber to tell us what the actual message he was trying to send was?

Maybe it was "Be at Renfair this 4th of July!"

Why would you think that? Barber was trying to tie his campaign with the same vim and vigor that he feels abounded during the times before, during and after the revolutionary war period. It's evident from his ad, I'm surprised that you would be confused about the actual intent of the message?

32 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:02:50am

When there is an attempt at a tea party revolution, and it fails miserably ending in the deaths of thousands of possibly retarded Americans, I will look forward to seeing this man swing from his neck alongside others who openly advocated for violent revolution.

33 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:03:09am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

Plus, Secret Service... hmmm.... SS where have we heard that before people?

34 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:03:22am

re: #29 William of Orange

Let there be at least some sensible Republicans who deny this asshole his progress.

Like who? Got any names in mind?

35 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:03:45am

re: #25 jamesfirecat

Can we get Mr. Barber to tell us what the actual message he was trying to send was?

Maybe it was "Be at Renfair this 4th of July!"

Or "forget gold, buy Revolution era flintlocks".

36 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:03:47am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

And Secret Service? THE SS? We are through the looking glass people.

37 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:03:49am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

And that's how da Joos control the White House. Got it./

38 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:04:00am

re: #33 jamesfirecat

Plus, Secret Service... hmmm... SS where have we heard that before people?

social security?

39 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:04:15am

re: #30 darthstar

Let's just hope he loses the general election if he gets through the primary.

It's a fair bet this seditious screed will not escape the attention of his opponents.

40 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:04:38am

re: #38 brookly red

social security?

THIS IS A BUG HUNT! GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!

41 avanti  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:04:57am

re: #17 brookly red

actually the concept of talking with the founders is quite creative, it's is the pistol that should have been edited out.

Except the founding fathers would have thought he was a idiot. He talks about the Tea tax as if the founders opposed any tax when as I recall it was taxation without representation. The progressive tax and the rest of the stuff he rants about were implemented by the representatives voted for by the citizens. If you don't like their policies, you can vote them out without need of a revolution.

42 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:05:08am

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

Like who? Got any names in mind?

William F. Bu.... oh nvm.

How about Ronald Rea.... ah crap.

I give up.

43 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:06:20am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

William F. Bu... oh nvm.

How about Ronald Rea... ah crap.

I give up.

You had better get us to this sort of rhetoric... it will only increase over the next few months.

44 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:06:24am

re: #41 avanti

Except the founding fathers would have thought he was a idiot. He talks about the Tea tax as if the founders opposed any tax when as I recall it was taxation without representation. The progressive tax and the rest of the stuff he rants about were implemented by the representatives voted for by the citizens. If you don't like their policies, you can vote them out without need of a revolution.

true. the midterms will be interesting.

45 Transfromnation  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:07:22am

I think he should be considered as a candidate for "craziest person in America."

46 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:07:35am

re: #45 Transfromnation

I think he should be considered as a candidate for "craziest person in America."

That's a very long list of nominees.

47 avanti  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:07:42am

re: #28 Nimed

"Today we have what they call a progressive income tax."

And by today, Rick Barber means since 1913.

To show his opposition to the progressive tax, he should increase his tax rate to the level it would go to if the rich paid the same tax rate as the middle class.

48 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:08:17am

re: #32 Fozzie Bear

When there is an attempt at a tea party revolution, and it fails miserably ending in the deaths of thousands of possibly retarded Americans(...)

Palin will accuse Obama of conducting an elaborate eugenics program.

49 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:08:34am

re: #45 Transfromnation

I think he should be considered as a candidate for "craziest person in America."

well the founders in their wisdom saw to it that every state gets 2 :)

50 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:08:43am

Will Reuters edit the gun out of this video to help the image of the teabaggers?

Doubt it.

51 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:08:44am

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

You had better get us to this sort of rhetoric... it will only increase over the next few months.

Of course it'll really spike if they don't make big gains in the midterms at which point they'll all start blaming each other for not being conservative enough, that or blame that the votes were rigged by some kind of secret conspiracy.

///ACORN!11!!

(There I said it now lets not rehash that particular subject)

52 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:08:52am

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

William F. Bu... oh nvm.

How about Ronald Rea... ah crap.

I give up.

We can't even suggest Teddy Roosevelt and Barry Goldwater rising from the grave to slap some sense into these quacks. Zombies subsist on brains, Teddy and Barry would starve back to death in short order.

53 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:09:43am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

Of course it'll really spike if they don't make big gains in the midterms at which point they'll all start blaming each other for not being conservative enough, that or blame that the votes were rigged by some kind of secret conspiracy.

///ACORN!11!!

(There I said it now lets not rehash that particular subject)

This rhetoric is going to spike before the midterms... that was my point.

54 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:10:09am

re: #36 McSpiff

And Secret Service? THE SS? We are through the looking glass people.

To the chalkboard!!!

55 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:10:19am

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Washington, DC, Jun 14 - U.S. Rep. Bob Etheridge (D-Lillington) released the following statement on the viral video which appeared on the internet today:

"I have seen the video posted on several blogs. I deeply and profoundly regret my reaction and I apologize to all involved. Throughout my many years of service to the people of North Carolina, I have always tried to treat people from all viewpoints with respect. No matter how intrusive and partisan our politics can become, this does not justify a poor response. I have and I will always work to promote a civil public discourse."

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

56 avanti  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:10:44am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

Of course it'll really spike if they don't make big gains in the midterms at which point they'll all start blaming each other for not being conservative enough, that or blame that the votes were rigged by some kind of secret conspiracy.

///ACORN!11!!

(There I said it now lets not rehash that particular subject)

Or there dream candidate will win and be able not take us back to the 1800's and be labeled a RINO.

57 Transfromnation  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:11:23am

re: #46 thedopefishlives

That's a very long list of nominees.

I think we could divide it in to smaller categories, like the Oscars. I think "Craziest Southern Male Politician Running For Congress" could be a smaller category.

Oh wait, never mind.

58 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:14:00am

How much alcohol would I need to consume for this man's message to make sense?

59 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:14:01am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

"[...] I have [worked] and I will always work to promote a civil public discourse."

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

Fixed that for him. Bad mood does not excuse bad grammar, either, Congressman. Fire your unpaid help intern.

60 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:14:58am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

Might be fun to have a Huffpo video team confront him on the street. He would probably assault them with a barrage of tea-party talking points, wave his flintlock pistol around, then pull the corn cob out of his ass and try to hit them with it.

61 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:15:53am

re: #41 avanti

Except the founding fathers would have thought he was a idiot. He talks about the Tea tax as if the founders opposed any tax when as I recall it was taxation without representation. The progressive tax and the rest of the stuff he rants about were implemented by the representatives voted for by the citizens. If you don't like their policies, you can vote them out without need of a revolution.

Exactly. I mean, the introduction of progressivity was so by the book that there was even a Constitutional Amendment. I believe the Founding Fathers would be ok with this one.

Of course, what Barber is counting on is that the electorate is so stupid that it will confuse the concepts "progressive tax" and "progressive" ideology.

62 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:16:17am

re: #58 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How much alcohol would I need to consume for this man's message to make sense?

Half a quart, but here's the catch...it'd have to be rubbing alcohol, so I don't recommend it.

63 KingKenrod  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:17:18am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

Neither of them deserve sympathy.

64 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:17:25am

re: #61 Nimed

Exactly. I mean, the introduction of progressivity was so by the book that there was even a Constitutional Amendment. I believe the Founding Fathers would be ok with this one.

Of course, what Barber is counting on is that the electorate is so stupid that it will confuse the concepts "progressive tax" and "progressive" ideology.

progressivity?...please spare me

65 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:17:57am

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

This rhetoric is going to spike before the midterms... that was my point.

I'd argue that while yes it will spike before midterms, I think the only think that could make these people even crazier, if being at their craziest still doesn't get them what they want...

66 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:18:35am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

After I saw the video, I wanted to smack the "student" myself...but that doesn't really excuse the actual assault.

Of course, the right wing blogs are howling in glee with this while they wink and smile at actual sedition coming from their own side.

I still think we will have armed violence in this country before the end of Obama's term of office. There are too many people who just cannot comprehend the notion that free elections have consequences and that the Constitution is not a whites only prosperity and power contract.

67 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:19:05am

re: #63 KingKenrod

Neither of them deserve sympathy.

if they are elected office holders, they will never get any from me....I only have sympathy for the devil

68 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:19:08am

re: #61 Nimed


Of course, what Barber is counting on is that the electorate is so stupid that it will confuse the concepts "progressive tax" and "progressive" ideology.

I hadn't thought of that, but I'll bet your right, just as they try to confuse people about the meaning of "net neutrality." Their past efforts to confuse conservative politics with conservative religion and lifestyle were successful enough to alter the consensus meaning of the term "conservative."

69 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:20:19am

re: #64 albusteve

progressivity?...please spare me

Income tax progressivity, steve.

70 avanti  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:20:35am

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

This rhetoric is going to spike before the midterms... that was my point.

Really ? look at crazy Pam's headline today about the student/Congressman altercation:

"These are the Democrats. These are the goosestepping fascists who have seized this country and ripped our constitution to shreds. They are beating up our kids."

71 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:21:15am

re: #69 Nimed

Income tax progressivity, steve.

Better than "tranzi proggieness".

72 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:21:33am

re: #66 celticdragon

After I saw the video, I wanted to smack the "student" myself...but that doesn't really excuse the actual assault.

Of course, the right wing blogs are howling in glee with this while they wink and smile at actual sedition coming from their own side.

I still think we will have armed violence in this country before the end of Obama's term of office. There are too many people who just cannot comprehend the notion that free elections have consequences and that the Constitution is not a whites only prosperity and power contract.

Umm... sadly I think we've already had armed violence in this country since Obama was elected... Like the guy who shot up the holocaust museum, or the guy who shot some cops because he thought they were comming to take his guns away?

73 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:21:42am

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Better than "tranzi proggieness".

???????

74 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:24:42am

The ignorance of our own history is so depressing.

I do not actually wish to remove anyone's citizenship, but I do wish that adult citizens were given the same test that immigrants are, so that they can at least realize that their knowledge of our country's history is lacking in the extreme.

75 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:25:20am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

People have thought me stupid for claiming that the Secret Service is the agency that enforces counterfeiting laws. "No, idiot, they protect the President!" grrrr... You could at least watch "In the Line of Fire..."

76 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:26:10am

re: #70 avanti

Really ? look at crazy Pam's headline today about the student/Congressman altercation:

"These are the Democrats. These are the goosestepping fascists who have seized this country and ripped our constitution to shreds. They are beating up our kids."

She makes my point.

77 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:26:10am

re: #70 avanti

Really ? look at crazy Pam's headline today about the student/Congressman altercation:

"These are the Democrats. These are the goosestepping fascists who have seized this country and ripped our constitution to shreds. They are beating up our kids."

"goosestepping fascists?" I love overblown rhetoric. I hope they keep this up and never try to sound like anything less than paranoid freaks.

78 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:26:38am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

Once I heard the neon-sign code term "Obama's agenda," I would probably have responded,

"Why, yes, of course I support our leader and his four year plan, Castro's too. Why else would the peasants and workers of North Carolina elect me to fight capitalism and Christian dogma in the House of Representatives? Now go away before I sic some ACORN organizers on you. Viva Che!"

(Probably why I'm not a Congressman.)

79 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:26:44am

re: #70 avanti

Really ? look at crazy Pam's headline today about the student/Congressman altercation:

"These are the Democrats. These are the goosestepping fascists who have seized this country and ripped our constitution to shreds. They are beating up our kids."

/OK so we got the right calling for revolution & the left beating up kids... maybe that Whig stuff is the way to go...

80 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:27:08am

re: #75 JasonA

It's kind of funny that the Secret Service very publicly protects the president.

It's the rest of what they do that's rather secret.

81 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:28:04am

re: #77 darthstar

"goosestepping fascists?" I love overblown rhetoric. I hope they keep this up and never try to sound like anything less than paranoid freaks.

I hope they keep it up too.

82 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:28:27am

re: #72 jamesfirecat

Umm... sadly I think we've already had armed violence in this country since Obama was elected... Like the guy who shot up the holocaust museum, or the guy who shot some cops because he thought they were comming to take his guns away?

I was thinking large scale and organized.

Check out this story from this last week...which for some reason is not making the national news...
************
A Georgia man with a pistol on his hip told authorities he had an AK-47 rifle he was ready to use to help a group of extremists take over a Tennessee courthouse to settle a gripe against government officials.

Federal court documents say Darren Wesley Huff of Dalton, Ga., talked freely to law enforcement about his role in the plan to arrest 24 officials. He also told FBI agents, Tennessee troopers and others that he would help take over the Monroe County Courthouse in Madisonville if necessary.

Huff was arraigned Friday in Knoxville. He has pleaded not guilty to a charge of transportation of a firearm in furtherance of a civil disorder.

FBI Special Agent Mark Van Balen, who investigates domestic and international terrorism, said in a criminal complaint that Huff was wearing a pistol on his hip when stopped by Tennessee troopers and local officers on April 20 near Sweetwater.

"Huff said he was ready to die for his rights and what he believed in," Van Balen wrote.

Huff had told FBI agents a day earlier that he wanted to help Walter Fitzpatrick, a Sweetwater man who had an April 20 court appearance in Monroe County. Fitzpatrick was arrested in early April after he tried to put a Monroe County grand jury foreman under citizen's arrest.

Fitzpatrick, a military retiree who became hostile to the government two decades ago when he faced a court-martial, had been trying to get a grand jury to indict President Barack Obama for treason, The Knoxville News Sentinel reported. The newspaper reported Fitzpatrick claims Obama is not a U.S. citizen....

Later that day, FBI agents and other officers saw Huff and more than a dozen others carrying weapons outside the courthouse, ready to take over the courthouse if necessary, Van Balen said.

***************

Oath Keepers and Georgia militia trying to take over a Tennessee courthouse, arrest persons inside and issue a criminal indictment of the President of The United States for being a foreign national.

I think we will see more of this.

83 Political Atheist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:28:42am

re: #58 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Enough your next task would be rehab & the 12 step.

84 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:28:54am

re: #78 Shiplord Kirel

Better than me, I would probably choke the kid.

//

Canadian joke from last thread.

85 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:29:27am

re: #79 brookly red

/OK so we got the right calling for revolution & the left beating up kids... maybe that Whig stuff is the way to go...

Kids...why is it Republican operatives in their twenties are still referred to as 'kids' when they are, by law, legally adults? It's not like the guy punched a seven year old.

86 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:29:38am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Actually, yes. It's all part of the great conspiracy. The Secret Service is technically part of the Treasury Dept. which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve which they see as a secret society of Jewish Bankers.
/not kidding.

Oh, and the Secret Service is under Homeland Security now instead of Treasury. They changed it in '03.

87 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:30:01am

re: #75 JasonA

Travis: Hey, you're a Secret Service man aren't ya? Huh?
Agent: (indifferently) Just waiting for the Senator.
Travis: You're waiting for the Senator? Oh! That's a very good answer. S--t! I'm waitin' for the sun to shine. Yeah. No, the reason I, I asked if you were a Secret Service man, I won't say anything, because I (Travis pauses, noticing two more agents walking by)...I saw some suspicious looking people over there. (Travis points away) Yeah, they were over there, right over there. They were just here, uh. They were very, very, uh...
Agent: ...suspicious...
Travis: Yeah. Is it hard to get to be in the Secret Service?
Agent: Why?
Travis: Well, I was just curious, because I think I'd be good at it. Very observant. I was in the Marine Corps you know, I'm good with crowds. I'm noticin' the little pin there. (Looking at the agent's lapel.) That's like a signal isn't it?
Agent: Sort of.
Travis: A signal. A secret signal for the Secret Service. Hey, what kind of guns do you guys carry? 38s, 45s, 357 Magnums, somethin' bigger maybe?
Agent: Look, uh, if you're really interested, if you give me your name and address, we'll send you all the information on how to apply. How's that?
Travis: You will?
Agent: Sure. (The agent takes out a notepad.)
Travis: OK. Why not? My name is Henry Krinkle. K-R-I-N-K-L-E. 154 Hopper Avenue.
Agent: Hopper?
Travis: Yeah. You know like a rabbit, hip, hop. Ha, ha. Fair Lawn, New Jersey.
Agent: Is there a zip code to that Henry?
Travis: Yeah, 610452. OK?
Agent: That's, uh, six digits.
Travis: Oh, well 61045.
Agent: OK.
Travis: I was thinking of my telephone number.
Agent: Well, I've got it all. Henry, we'll get all the stuff right out to you.
Travis: Thanks alot. Hey, great. Thanks alot. Hell, Jesus. Be careful today.
Agent: Right. Will do.
Travis: You have to be careful in and around a place like this. Bye.

-Taxi Driver

88 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:30:12am

re: #82 celticdragon

Where did you read he was a member of the Oathkeepers?

89 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:31:24am

re: #85 darthstar

Kids...why is it Republican operatives in their twenties are still referred to as 'kids' when they are, by law, legally adults? It's not like the guy punched a seven year old.

Hell after watching it I didn't even see him punch the guy. Yeah he did the wrong thing "initiating unwanted physical contact" (or whatever you care to call it) but I only saw him grab the kids wrist for a bit and then his shoulder to pull him for the worlds most awkward "my conservative friend" photo-op...

91 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:32:15am

re: #82 celticdragon


I think we will see more of this.


the 8 ball says... for sure

92 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:32:28am

re: #90 celticdragon

Just read it. I thought you would have quoted it directly. Next time, I'll read the article. Obviously he neglected to read their "no violence" pledge.

93 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:33:49am

re: #75 JasonA

People have thought me stupid for claiming that the Secret Service is the agency that enforces counterfeiting laws. "No, idiot, they protect the President!" grrr... You could at least watch "In the Line of Fire..."

Eh. I have to admit I would have been one of those guys. But I wouldn't call you an idiot, I just respect you too much.
/ <-- apply to last sentence only

94 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:34:18am

re: #92 RogueOne

Just read it. I thought you would have quoted it directly. Next time, I'll read the article. Obviously he neglected to read their "no violence" pledge.

If they have to have a "no violence" pledge, then they know up front that they're attracting an unstable membership.

95 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:34:41am

re: #66 celticdragon

After I saw the video, I wanted to smack the "student" myself...but that doesn't really excuse the actual assault. prosperity and power contract.

As I said on the last thread:

If "just a student" comes up, sticks a camera that close in my face, and persists in not identifying himself upon demand, I'm going to get a little testy, too.

You do not begin an interview with a question, you begin it by telling the person who you are and asking for permission to ask questions. Like the rabbi did with Helen Thomas.

The congressman was wrong to lay hands on this boob, but the boob wasn't following the established rules. I expect he's some kind of "journalism" student, à la Palin. Fail.

The congressman's apology is entirely sufficient, in my book.

Well, except for the faulty grammar, that is.

96 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:34:47am
97 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:35:49am

re: #95 Cato the Elder

As I said on the last thread:

If "just a student" comes up, sticks a camera that close in my face, and persists in not identifying himself upon demand, I'm going to get a little testy, too.

You do not begin an interview with a question, you begin it by telling the person who you are and asking for permission to ask questions. Like the rabbi did with Helen Thomas.

The congressman was wrong to lay hands on this boob, but the boob wasn't following the established rules. I expect he's some kind of "journalism" student, à la Palin. Fail.

The congressman's apology is entirely sufficient, in my book.

Well, except for the faulty grammar, that is.

I agree.

98 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:35:54am

re: #96 MikeySDCA

Has this ninny never heard of Appomattox?

Most choose to ignore that episode of their history. In their minds, they are still at war with the pro-black, pro-government, pro-everything-they're-anti North.

99 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:36:17am

re: #89 jamesfirecat

Yeah he did the wrong thing "initiating unwanted physical contact" (or whatever you care to call it)

It's called assault and battery

From a legal standpoint, assault and battery often form one charge against a suspect. However, some suspects may merely be charged with assault. Anyone who is charged with battery, however, is essentially also guilty of assault.

The difference between assault and battery lies in the definition of the terms. In legalese, assault is any reasonable threat to a person. The person who is committing the assault does not have to actually touch a person. But a reasonable and immediate threat to the person being assaulted must exist for a claim of assault. Battery, on the other hand, requires contact
[Link: www.wisegeek.com...]

100 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:36:23am

re: #94 darthstar

If they have to have a "no violence" pledge, then they know up front that they're attracting an unstable membership.

Good point.

101 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:36:38am

re: #98 thedopefishlives

Most choose to ignore that episode of their history. In their minds, they are still at war with the pro-black, pro-government, pro-everything-they're-anti North.

most who?

102 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:36:49am

I wonder if blurry-face will stay blurry-faced when he gets invited to interview on Fox news.

103 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:38:10am

re: #102 darthstar

I wonder if blurry-face will stay blurry-faced when he gets invited to interview on Fox news.

/no the got professionals that can cover up the zits...

104 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:38:15am

re: #99 sattv4u2

Yeah he did the wrong thing "initiating unwanted physical contact" (or whatever you care to call it)

It's called assault and battery

From a legal standpoint, assault and battery often form one charge against a suspect. However, some suspects may merely be charged with assault. Anyone who is charged with battery, however, is essentially also guilty of assault.

The difference between assault and battery lies in the definition of the terms. In legalese, assault is any reasonable threat to a person. The person who is committing the assault does not have to actually touch a person. But a reasonable and immediate threat to the person being assaulted must exist for a claim of assault. Battery, on the other hand, requires contact
[Link: www.wisegeek.com...]

If you want to fill up America's court rooms with another 95% pointless case in an attempt to soak a sitting member of our congress for a few thousand dollars and make sure he can't do his job for a month or two be my guest.

105 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:38:31am

I hate spying on myself so much that I removed all mirrors.
/

106 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:38:37am

re: #94 darthstar

If they have to have a "no violence" pledge, then they know up front that they're attracting an unstable membership.

Well, their chief demographic are law enforcement officers so there you go....

107 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:38:50am

re: #102 darthstar

I wonder if blurry-face will stay blurry-faced when he gets invited to interview on Fox news.

He will have a pimp suit on and be sitting next to Hannah Giles decked out in a 70's micro mini skirt and tube top with platform heels and fishnet hosiery.

108 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:39:06am

re: #92 RogueOne

Just read it. I thought you would have quoted it directly. Next time, I'll read the article. Obviously he neglected to read their "no violence" pledge.

Got a link? I didn't find it here.

109 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:39:14am

re: #102 darthstar

I wonder if blurry-face will stay blurry-faced when he gets invited to interview on Fox news.

Probably not. Looking forward to it.

110 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:39:49am

re: #106 RogueOne

Well, their chief demographic are law enforcement officers so there you go...

Ouch. Radley Balko would like that one.

111 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:40:20am

re: #104 jamesfirecat

If you want to fill up America's court rooms with another 95% pointless case in an attempt to soak a sitting member of our congress for a few thousand dollars and make sure he can't do his job for a month or two be my guest.

Strawman

YOU asked "whatever you want to call it"

I gave you what it is (legally)

I never advocated your rant

112 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:40:26am

re: #107 celticdragon

He will have a pimp suit on and be sitting next to Hannah Giles decked out in a 70's micro mini skirt and tube top with platform heels and fishnet hosiery.

If he does well on TV, Breitbart will dump O'Keefe for him and then O'Keefe will get jealous and start releasing info he has on Breitbart...this could turn out to be a fun thing to watch.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:41:19am

re: #7 darthstar

These ads aren't made for TV. They're made for the internet. But Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. will air them several times in the next week free of charge as "news" items.

Less funny than the Demon Sheep.

114 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:41:31am

lemme try that again

115 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:41:50am

re: #104 jamesfirecat

If you want to fill up America's court rooms with another 95% pointless case in an attempt to soak a sitting member of our congress for a few thousand dollars and make sure he can't do his job for a month or two be my guest.

Strawman

YOU asked "whatever you want to call it"

I gave you what it is (legally)

I never advocated your rant

116 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:42:07am

re: #112 darthstar

If he does well on TV, Breitbart will dump O'Keefe for him and then O'Keefe will get jealous and start releasing info he has on Breitbart...this could turn out to be a fun thing to watch.

dump him? more likely get the 2 of them a cable show...

kinda like a modern candid camera.

117 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:42:43am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Less funny than the Demon Sheep.

Or that Agriculture Secretary ad. That was awesome.

118 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:42:48am

re: #104 jamesfirecat

If you want to fill up America's court rooms with another 95% pointless case in an attempt to soak a sitting member of our congress for a few thousand dollars and make sure he can't do his job for a month or two be my guest.

We have to have the same rules for everyone. If I attacked some obnoxious media droids (as I cheerfully admit I feel like doing from time to time), I would face the consequences in court, apology or not. The judge might be lenient but a crime of violence, which assault and battery most assuredly is, cannot simply be overlooked because of the offender's status.

119 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:42:52am

re: #116 brookly red

dump him? more likely get the 2 of them a cable show...

kinda like a modern candid camera.

"On this episode of 'Cheaters'"...

120 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:43:06am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Less funny than the Demon Sheep.

True. But remember, this is in Alabama for the Republican primary, so the kind of anti-islamist and anti-government rhetoric Barber has in his ads is either seen as 'moderate' by most Alabama Republicans or the GOP believes it is.

121 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:43:18am

Good Morning All! Guess I missed all the fireworks down-thread. Thought Id pop in here to say Hi.

Gee, I have a question. Why is the D.H.S. sent out their lackeys to check out all the gun ranges and yet this nutcase has stayed off their radar even thought he's obviously got diarrhea of the mouth? Hmmm... Kinda makes you wonder...//

122 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:43:33am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Less funny than the Demon Sheep.

That's a mighty high bar.

123 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:08am

From his site: Rick Barber has also been endorsed by Erick Erickson of Redstate.com, Liberty First PAC, Iraq Vets for Congress PAC and Pamela Geller of the popular Atlas Shrugs blog.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:08am

re: #15 Shiplord Kirel

"Gather your armies"

Ok, Bob, you're on. You collect what you have, I'll take the 82nd Airborne and we will meet at the place of your choosing.

You can even bring Fake George Washington and his horse with you. How's that?

//Wait, bad idea, I don't want any horses harmed in this operation, and Fake George Washington is probably a character actor who didn't realize this was a real political ad.

125 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:15am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Less funny than the Demon Sheep.

I still have nightmares over the Barbara Boxer Blimp...

126 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:21am

re: #115 sattv4u2

Strawman

YOU asked "whatever you want to call it"

I gave you what it is (legally)

I never advocated your rant

I'll admit you never advocated that the kid should engage in legal action against the the congressman who did that to him, but by choosing to define what happened between them in illegal terms it is implicit in your answer that the congressman should be arrested/sued in my opinion which is why I responded with my own, that if he was, it would just go to show why 70% of the world's lawyers reside in a country with only 5% of its population....

127 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:35am

re: #115 sattv4u2

Are you still following the World Cup?

128 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:47am

re: #92 RogueOne

Just read it. I thought you would have quoted it directly. Next time, I'll read the article. Obviously he neglected to read their "no violence" pledge.

Yeah, that's because they don't have one.

129 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:44:49am

re: #125 brookly red

I still have nightmares over the Barbara Boxer Blimp...

You're not the only one! Bleaugh!

130 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:45:02am

re: #107 celticdragon

He will have a pimp suit on and be sitting next to Hannah Giles decked out in a 70's micro mini skirt and tube top with platform heels and fishnet hosiery.

That would be ok, at least the last part.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:45:02am

re: #20 Summer

It is amazing to me how incredibly stupid these Teabaggers are.

There is all the difference in the world between raising taxes without representation, and raising taxes by a representative government!

These bloody morons need to shut the hell up and learn their basics in history class before they open their vacuous and vile mouths again and again.

The line is: "No taxation without representation."

Not: "No taxation. Period."

132 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:45:12am

re: #127 Nimed

Are you still following the World Cup?

Italy v. Paraguay in 45 minutes!

133 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:45:44am

re: #108 wrenchwench

Got a link? I didn't find it here.

Celtic posted it upthread:
re: #90 celticdragon

134 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:45:53am

re: #126 jamesfirecat

I'll admit you never advocated that the kid should engage in legal action against the the congressman who did that to him, but by choosing to define what happened between them in illegal terms it is implicit in your answer that the congressman should be arrested/sued in my opinion which is why I responded with my own, that if he was, it would just go to show why 70% of the world's lawyers reside in a country with only 5% of its population...

no ,,it is NOT

YOU stated ",,,whatever you want to call it"

I gave you the correct legal term for it

Thats strike two. I suggest you keep the bat on your shoulder and pray for a walk!

135 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:46:10am

re: #132 darthstar

Italy v. Paraguay in 45 minutes!

My
excitement
cannot
be
contained
.
/

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:46:23am

re: #25 jamesfirecat

Can we get Mr. Barber to tell us what the actual message he was trying to send was?

Maybe it was "Be at Renfair this 4th of July!"

I'll be the very busty Molly Pitcher stand-in...

137 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:46:33am

re: #127 Nimed

Are you still following the World Cup?

Yup,,, A mild shoker with Japan beating Cameroon this morning

138 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:46:51am

re: #116 brookly red

dump him? more likely get the 2 of them a cable show...

kinda like a modern candid camera.

That's all we need.

The Mallard Fillmore of reality TV.

Only funny and interesting to the 27% of people that are outraged by the daily Pavlov outrage email from Malkin.

139 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:00am

I've seen the Gather. Your. Armies line like 10 times now. Still fresh...

140 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:04am

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

We have to have the same rules for everyone. If I attacked some obnoxious media droids (as I cheerfully admit I feel like doing from time to time), I would face the consequences in court, apology or not. The judge might be lenient but a crime of violence, which assault and battery most assuredly is, cannot simply be overlooked because of the offender's status.

The problem for me is, the camera got shakey for a bit which I'm not sure if its selected editing or whatever, but did the guy do more than the wrist and neck hold?

If he had actually punched him or kicked him in some way then I'd be with you, but if it was just unwanted restraint for a bit with no direct attacks, than bringing anybody to court over it seems like a major waste of time no matter who the attacker/atackee was...

141 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:31am

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll be the very busty Molly Pitcher stand-in...

Molly Pitcher had jugs?

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:31am

re: #26 brookly red

I wonder if that is a direct historical quote...

All the Google references I'm finding are to this ad, but I'm sure someone said it before...

143 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:43am

Looks like Barber may have had a very close shave.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:47:55am

re: #28 Nimed

"Today we have what they call a progressive income tax."

And by today, Rick Barber means since 1913.

Well, that probably counts as 'today' to the gentlemen he's speaking to.

145 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:48:05am
146 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:48:05am

re: #135 JasonA

My
excitement
cannot
be
contained
.
/

I can.

147 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:48:48am

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

All the Google references I'm finding are to this ad, but I'm sure someone said it before...

yeah it did sound familiar... but for some reason I am thinking it was from a different war?

148 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:48:58am

re: #141 JasonA

In New Jersey they do.

Oh, you're talking about Molly Pitcher....

149 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:49:30am

re: #146 Oh no...Sand People!

Heh. Thanks. I haven't seen that in years.

150 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:50:06am

re: #140 jamesfirecat

but did the guy do more than the wrist and neck hold?

the "wrist and neck hold" IS assault AND battery

You can't place your hands on someone UNLESS they are a direct threat to you

Holding a camera and asking a question, even a dumb one, even one that you don't care to answer, and even one from someone that didn't follow journalistic protocol (i.e.,, hi,, this is so and so from XYZ news, we'de like to ask you a question) is NOT a "direct threat"

151 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:50:11am

re: #140 jamesfirecat

The problem for me is, the camera got shakey for a bit which I'm not sure if its selected editing or whatever, but did the guy do more than the wrist and neck hold?

If he had actually punched him or kicked him in some way then I'd be with you, but if it was just unwanted restraint for a bit with no direct attacks, than bringing anybody to court over it seems like a major waste of time no matter who the attacker/atackee was...

The law of assault is that if you so much as flick a piece of dandruff off my suit jacket in a way that I find unacceptable, I can charge you with assault. Ditto if you poke me in the shoulder. Much more so if you grab my hand and restrain me.

Circumstances alter cases, to be sure, but this behavior on the part of the congressman meets the legal definition of assault.

152 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:50:14am

re: #130 Shiplord Kirel

That would be ok, at least the last part.

Heh.

You know her father is an enthusiastic I hate teh girly men and I shoots da criminals preacher and theo-dominionist columnist at TownHall.com?

153 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:50:38am

re: #139 Nimed

I've seen the Gather. Your. Armies line like 10 times now. Still fresh...

He's trying to get the Warhammer 40K voting block... ;)

154 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:51:15am

re: #152 celticdragon

Heh.

You know her father is an enthusiastic I hate teh girly men and I shoots da criminals preacher and theo-dominionist columnist at TownHall.com?

So much the better.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:51:18am

re: #58 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How much alcohol would I need to consume for this man's message to make sense?

I don't know. I did several shots of tequila back in college, and ended up having a serious discussion about whether Druids were a threat to the United States, so really, hard to say. It probably depends a lot on body weight, and general drug tolerance, and how fast you drink.

156 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:51:33am

Wish y'all would stop mocking our candidates, "first mockery" is the right of a sov'rin state. (Actually, the clip is scary because the production values are way too high.)

157 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:51:36am

re: #150 sattv4u2

but did the guy do more than the wrist and neck hold?

the "wrist and neck hold" IS assault AND battery

You can't place your hands on someone UNLESS they are a direct threat to you

Holding a camera and asking a question, even a dumb one, even one that you don't care to answer, and even one from someone that didn't follow journalistic protocol (i.e.,, hi,, this is so and so from XYZ news, we'de like to ask you a question) is NOT a "direct threat"

Even a question from a conservative.

158 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:51:38am

re: #140 jamesfirecat

No, it's not. The law should be applied consistently and fairly. People have been brought to court for less than this, and won. In civil court, that is.

The main mitigating factor is that this was being taped, so it's unlikely than an argument can be made that the reporter felt in real danger of injury.

The congressman gave the Brietbart proxy exactly what he wanted, which is stupid, and he did so through violence-- no matter how minimal-- which is even more stupid.

Now here is Bill Moyers dealing with a similar situation and completely fucking owning the guy:

159 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:52:06am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I did several shots of tequila back in college, and ended up having a serious discussion about whether Druids were a threat to the United States, so really, hard to say. It probably depends a lot on body weight, and general drug tolerance, and how fast you drink.

well are they?

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:52:33am

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

Might be fun to have a Huffpo video team confront him on the street. He would probably assault them with a barrage of tea-party talking points, wave his flintlock pistol around, then pull the corn cob out of his ass and try to hit them with it.

You know, almost more worrisome to me than the flintlock and the talk about armies is the sheer jittery intensity of the man himself. He looks like he's on speed.

161 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:52:44am

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Even a question from a conservative.

wait ,,, the questionairre is a conservative?
Then forget everything I stated about the legalels of assault and battery. !!

162 dugmartsch  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:53:35am

re: #55 Charles

Dem Rep Apologizes For Video Of Him Roughing Up College Student:

Compare and contrast with Rick Barber.

That video of the congressman assaulting the kid was pretty heinous though. Congressmen assaulting would-be journalists is not something we should forgive with an 'awww shucks i'm sorry' apology.

And that's why I don't like playing this relativism game, this tea partier shouldn't be in politics, and neither should the scumbag from SC.

163 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:53:40am

re: #96 MikeySDCA

Has this ninny never heard of Appomattox?

Yes, it's his "Nakba"

164 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:53:47am

re: #141 JasonA

Molly Pitcher had jugs?

You trying to make people titter?

165 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:02am

re: #161 sattv4u2

wait ,,, the questionaire is a conservative?
Then forget everything I stated about the legalese of assault and battery. !!

The congressman assaulted a piece of paper with questions on it?

166 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:03am

Let's face it, folks: Etheridge just gave Wingnut nation its greatest gift since Jeremiah Wright.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:17am

re: #73 celticdragon

???

It's the new term de jour with some of our crazier blogosphere inhabitants. Not just progs, but TRANZI PROGS.

168 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:24am

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that probably counts as 'today' to the gentlemen he's speaking to.

Good point. OTOH, I bet the gentlemen in question would be more interestes in hearing about the wonders of space flight, the internet and viagra.

How would you like it if you were to travel to the future and the first thing you heard upon arrival was a lecture on the tax code?

169 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:26am

re: #161 sattv4u2

wait ,,, the questionairre is a conservative?
Then forget everything I stated about the legalels of assault and battery. !!

I think right about now the kids parents are lawyer shopping & soon to be followed by house shopping...

170 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:28am

re: #153 oaktree

He's trying to get the Warhammer 40K voting block... ;)

He didn't work in enough references to burning heretics and xenos.

Add some obligatory comments like "Praise the Emperor!" and show some wrecked city skyline form Cestus Beta III with Leman Russ tanks rampaging around and impaled Eldar prisoners.

That ought to do it.

171 dugmartsch  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:33am

re: #162 dugmartsch

That video of the congressman assaulting the kid was pretty heinous though. Congressmen assaulting would-be journalists is not something we should forgive with an 'awww shucks i'm sorry' apology.

And that's why I don't like playing this relativism game, this tea partier shouldn't be in politics, and neither should the scumbag from SC.

My apologies to the state of South Carolina, Etheridge is from NC.

172 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:35am

Speaking of re: #162 dugmartsch

That video of the congressman assaulting the kid was pretty heinous though. Congressmen assaulting would-be journalists is not something we should forgive with an 'awww shucks i'm sorry' apology.

And that's why I don't like playing this relativism game, this tea partier shouldn't be in politics, and neither should the scumbag from SC.

He's not a "kid"...

173 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:41am

re: #165 Cato the Elder

The congressman assaulted a piece of paper with questions on it?

the kid was wearing a law SUIT!!!

(I crack me up!!)

174 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:54:50am

re: #158 Obdicut

No, it's not. The law should be applied consistently and fairly. People have been brought to court for less than this, and won. In civil court, that is.

The main mitigating factor is that this was being taped, so it's unlikely than an argument can be made that the reporter felt in real danger of injury.

The congressman gave the Brietbart proxy exactly what he wanted, which is stupid, and he did so through violence-- no matter how minimal-- which is even more stupid.

Now here is Bill Moyers dealing with a similar situation and completely fucking owning the guy:


[Video]

Just a question... do we know yet if Brietbart may have had something to do with this prior to the incident, or was it just him hosting it after the fact, seeing he had a good piece of video?

And... I read somewhere already this morning that it was removed from YouTube (or by YouTube)... I'm not sure what happened to the two separate videos, the unedited straight though shots.

175 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:55:00am

But this is the time the Dem Rep got caught. I wonder how many assaults he has gotten away with that aren't on video.

/(must I?)

176 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:55:41am

re: #172 darthstar

Speaking of

He's not a "kid"...

He's a "Youth".

177 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:01am

re: #176 Oh no...Sand People!

He's a "Youth".

Did you say YUTE!?!?!

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:05am

re: #85 darthstar

Kids...why is it Republican operatives in their twenties are still referred to as 'kids' when they are, by law, legally adults? It's not like the guy punched a seven year old.

A person in their twenties who is stupid but on your side is a 'kid'. A fifteen-year-old being tried as an adult is a 'hardened criminal'. Like many things, adulthood operates on a sliding scale.

179 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:08am

re: #171 dugmartsch

My apologies to the state of South Carolina, Etheridge is from NC.

SC has enough political problems of their own.

180 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:16am

re: #173 sattv4u2

the kid was wearing a law SUIT!!!

(I crack me up!!)

You crack me up too, sattv4u2! :-)

181 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:23am

re: #176 Oh no...Sand People!

He's a "Youth".

/do you use instant grits?

182 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:29am

re: #171 dugmartsch

My apologies to the state of South Carolina, Etheridge is from NC.

I don't think one overheated incident is enough to call him a scumbag. I've committed 'assault' of equal and more than that, and I don't think I'm a scumbag. A guy was harassing my fiancée just the other night and I pushed him in the chest and kept my hand there.

I shouldn't have done it, and I regret it-- especially since she can more than handle herself, being from Detroit. I upped the ante by making it a male-male confrontation. Luckily we were in a bar where we're well-known and liked so the other guy was the one getting thrown out.

183 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:42am

re: #158 Obdicut

No, it's not. The law should be applied consistently and fairly. People have been brought to court for less than this, and won. In civil court, that is.

The main mitigating factor is that this was being taped, so it's unlikely than an argument can be made that the reporter felt in real danger of injury.

The congressman gave the Brietbart proxy exactly what he wanted, which is stupid, and he did so through violence-- no matter how minimal-- which is even more stupid.

Now here is Bill Moyers dealing with a similar situation and completely fucking owning the guy:


[Video]

Well one way or another I hope this can be settled with an apology and some beers rather than in a courtroom...

184 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:56:55am

re: #175 Oh no...Sand People!

But this is the time the Dem Rep got caught. I wonder how many assaults he has gotten away with that aren't on video.

/(must I?)

I'd take 5k and call it even...no use burdening the courts...they have pot smokers to prosecute

185 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:04am

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

It's the new term de jour with some of our crazier blogosphere inhabitants. Not just progs, but TRANZI PROGS.

Do I have to take shaman drugs to be a TRANCY PROG or will sufi dancing do it/

186 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:07am

re: #180 Dragon_Lady

You crack me up too, sattv4u2! :-)

Tanks, m'lady
And btw , GREAT job on the surprise party (I guess) He seemed thrilled when he was 'here" yesterday telling us about it

187 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:09am

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

All the Google references I'm finding are to this ad, but I'm sure someone said it before...

My guess is that he got it from the description to Heroes of Might and Magic:

Now is the time to recruit your heroes, gather your armies and lead them to victory!

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

188 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:19am

Can I just say the congressman was out of line but I'd hardly call that "assault". No blood, (no broken camera) no foul.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:27am

re: #117 JasonA

Or that Agriculture Secretary ad. That was awesome.

I haven't seen that one. Link?

190 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:43am

OT:

All I can say is. WHAT. THE. F**K!

The State Department is trying to deport Mosab Hassan Yousef -- author of Son of Hamas

U.S. authorities are seeking to deport Mosab Hassan Yousef, the "Green Prince," who reportedly worked as a Shin Bet security service agent from 1997-2007.

Yousef, who now lives in the United States, had unparalleled access to Hamas, which his father, Sheikh Hassan Yousef, helped found and led in the West Bank. He first described his experiences to Haaretz earlier this year, and has since published a book, "Son of Hamas," on the subject.

Recently, however, the Department of Homeland Security asked a California court to approve his deportation, on the grounds that he "provided material support to a [Tier 1] terrorist organization" - namely, Hamas.

The request is based on quotes from Yousef's book, "Son of Hamas" - in which he described how he worked within Hamas to obtain information for the Shin Bet. Taken out of context, the quotes make it seem as if he worked for the group.

A San Diego immigration court is to hear the case on June 30. Yousef said he will appeal if it rules against him.

The deportation request is the Department of Homeland Security's response to Yousef's asylum application. Yousef, who converted to Christianity in 2005, wrote on his blog that he was stunned by the move.

"If Homeland Security cannot understand a simple situation like mine, how can they be trusted with bigger issues?" he demanded.

MK Einat Wilf (Labor ), a member of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, recently began collecting MKs' signatures on a letter thanking Yousef for his contribution to Israel's security.

There is something seriously wrong with the officials who are trying to deport him.

Disgusting!

191 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:57:54am

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, almost more worrisome to me than the flintlock and the talk about armies is the sheer jittery intensity of the man himself. He looks like he's on speed.

This is the guy you want to make friends with if he comes to work at your place. Say nice things about his lunchbox, give him an extra Snickers or something, or maybe a Mounds bar since you don't want to imply that he's nuts. That way, you might be the one he overlooks when he pulls out his gun and starts shooting.

192 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:58:19am

re: #188 RogueOne

Can I just say the congressman was out of line but I'd hardly call that "assault". No blood, (no broken camera) no foul.

I am NOT calling for any action against the congressman, but what he did does meet the legal definition of assault and battery

193 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:58:34am

re: #183 jamesfirecat

Well one way or another I hope this can be settled with an apology and some beers rather than in a courtroom...

I don't think that the congressman wants to have beers with the idiot who was questioning him in such a stupid fashion, and I doubt the little idiot wants to drink with the guy who grabbed his arm and neck, either.

It's not like they're buddies who had a flareup.

If the guy wants to sue, he deserves his day in court, same as anyone else. If he wants to try to press assault charges, that's up to the discretion of the DA, I believe, and it's hard to do to a congressperson.

194 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:17am

re: #192 sattv4u2

I am NOT calling for any action against the congressman, but what he did does meet the legal definition of assault and battery

Well, I'm finding it hard to get overly concerned with a metaphorical call to arms too so I'm on the outs with both.//

195 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:25am

re: #181 brookly red

/do you use instant grits?

hmm..not quite familiar with that phrase.

196 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:31am

re: #186 sattv4u2

Tanks, m'lady
And btw , GREAT job on the surprise party (I guess) He seemed thrilled when he was 'here" yesterday telling us about it

Yeah, it was worth all the stress, but I could do with out the rash that broke out on my forehead over it! I'll never, ever do that kind of party again. You have any idea how hard it was to pull off? I didn't do much more than lay around yesterday trying to recover!

197 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:34am

re: #181 brookly red

/do you use instant grits?

No self respectin' Southerner uses instant grits. I take pride in my grits.

198 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:52am

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

A person in their twenties who is stupid but on your side is a 'kid'. A fifteen-year-old being tried as an adult is a 'hardened criminal'. Like many things, adulthood operates on a sliding scale.

Having turned 60 last year, I am now officially licensed to refer to them as "pissants."

199 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 10:59:57am

re: #188 RogueOne

Can I just say the congressman was out of line but I'd hardly call that "assault". No blood, (no broken camera) no foul.

Going by that standard, I shouldn't have been arrested because the guy I knocked out after he called me that "C" word had no blood on him.

It is illegal to put your hands on someone against their will. Period. Full stop.

200 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:07am

re: #188 RogueOne

Can I just say the congressman was out of line but I'd hardly call that "assault". No blood, (no broken camera) no foul.

Assault under law does not require blood or breakage. If you merely touch me uninvited, that's assault.

Which is why we have the additional legal category of "assault and battery". You can commit assault without battery, but not the other way round.

201 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:15am

OT:
Fatah's al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claims responsibility for murdering an Israeli policeman in the West Bank.

A faction of Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade claimed responsibility for Monday's terror attack in the Hebron Hills in which Israeli police officer Yehushua Sofer was killed, reported the Palestinian news agency Ma'an.

The attack came as a response to the raid on the Gaza aid flotilla, according to the report.

Sofer, 39, was buried Monday evening in the military section of the old Beersheba cemetery.

Two other police officers were injured in the attack, as they were driving northwards on Route 60 in the West Bank, south of the of settlement of Bet Hagai.

Partners.In.Peace. /

202 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:16am

re: #190 Joo-LiZ

There is something seriously wrong with the officials who are trying to deport him.

Disgusting!

Why? He was a double-agent, right? Was he working for the United States?

Clandestine agents may be a necessary evil, but what grounds is there to call it disgusting for the United States not to give asylum to someone who was a double-agent?

And perhaps you'll know the answer to this: has Israel even asked the US to harbor him?

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:25am

re: #159 brookly red

well are they?

I think I had some point about Dutch Elm Disease, but now that I'm sober, probably not.

204 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:30am

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

I haven't seen that one. Link?

Oh. Alabama again.

205 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:47am

re: #188 RogueOne

Can I just say the congressman was out of line but I'd hardly call that "assault". No blood, (no broken camera) no foul.

That's how I feel also (surprised that we're agreeing for once), hell he didn't punch or kick the guy either, just grabbed his wrist for a bit.

This entire thing is a tempest in a teacup...

206 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:00:53am

re: #137 sattv4u2

Yup,,, A milre: #132 darthstar

d shoker with Japan beating Cameroon this morning

Have you seen Germany? They have played the best soccer I've seen so far in the tournament. Which, granted, isn't saying much, condidering I missed Ghana and many strong teams haven't played yet...

Still, it was a delight to watch the Germans play.

207 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01:00am

re: #195 Oh no...Sand People!

hmm..not quite familiar with that phrase.

you said youth or yutes as in My Cousin Vinny... a classic

208 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01:37am

re: #201 lawhawk

OT:
Fatah's al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claims responsibility for murdering an Israeli policeman in the West Bank.

Partners.In.Peace. /

Damn. That's bad.

Cop murdering sons of bitches. :(

209 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01:49am

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Assault under law does not require blood or breakage. If you merely touch me uninvited, that's assault.

Which is why we have the additional legal category of "assault and battery". You can commit assault without battery, but not the other way round.

Where is the fun without the battery?/ I know we've become a nation that looks to everyone else to solve their problems but involving the local PD and prosecutors on something as weak as this I think should be beneath us.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01:52am

re: #171 dugmartsch

My apologies to the state of South Carolina, Etheridge is from NC.

I think you can be forgiven the error. South Carolina has really been working overtime on the crazy this past year.

211 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01:59am

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Assault under law does not require blood or breakage. If you merely touch me uninvited, that's assault.

Which is why we have the additional legal category of "assault and battery". You can commit assault without battery, but not the other way round.

Actually, some states don't differentiate between the two

[Link: www.statelawyers.com...]


Historically, laws treated the threat of physical injury as "assault", and the completed act of physical contact or offensive touching as "battery," but many states no longer differentiate between the two.

212 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:02:25am

re: #202 Obdicut

Why? He was a double-agent, right? Was he working for the United States?

Clandestine agents may be a necessary evil, but what grounds is there to call it disgusting for the United States not to give asylum to someone who was a double-agent?

And perhaps you'll know the answer to this: has Israel even asked the US to harbor him?


I, for one, don't hold a lot of trust for double-agents. And he'd probably be safer in Israel where they have more heightened security than we do here in the US.

213 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:02:29am

We should remember that a sincere apology with remorse carries weight in the US. Rightfully so, IMO.

214 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:02:44am

re: #206 Nimed

Have you seen Germany? They have played the best soccer I've seen so far in the tournament. Which, granted, isn't saying much, condidering I missed Ghana and many strong teams haven't played yet...

Still, it was a delight to watch the Germans play.

Efficient as always

215 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:03:02am

re: #209 RogueOne

Where is the fun without the battery?/ I know we've become a nation that looks to everyone else to solve their problems but involving the local PD and prosecutors on something as weak as this I think should be beneath us.

Enforcing the law is beneath us?

216 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:03:45am

re: #205 jamesfirecat

That's how I feel also (surprised that we're agreeing for once), hell he didn't punch or kick the guy either, just grabbed his wrist for a bit.

This entire thing is a tempest in a teacup...

agreed, I'm far more concerned about a nuclear detonation somewhere

217 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:03:52am

By the way, Mandy, I read your post about your mom last night.

As one who struggles mightily with tobacco even though I wheeze and cough myself into red-faced tears in the morning, my sympathy is great. I know people who have had tracheotomies and neck surgery for smoking-related cancer and still can't stop themselves from lighting up.

I wish you and your mom all the best, whatever may be best in this trying situation.

218 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:03am

Maybe Democrats should travel with authority details and just have the "journalists" detained. Or they could set up Freedom Zones.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:12am

re: #191 Shiplord Kirel

This is the guy you want to make friends with if he comes to work at your place. Say nice things about his lunchbox, give him an extra Snickers or something, or maybe a Mounds bar since you don't want to imply that he's nuts. That way, you might be the one he overlooks when he pulls out his gun and starts shooting.

I really shouldn't judge. I left a job once because a coworker asked me privately not to shoot him when I went postal on the office, and I wasn't totally sure he was kidding.

220 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:17am

re: #207 brookly red

you said youth or yutes as in My Cousin Vinny... a classic

Ah!

I was thinking in terms of the apologetics the MSM will give a Pali "Youth" chucking rocks during riots who has a full grown beard and stands at least 6 feet and is about 28 years old. "Youth" is a great 'utility' term.

221 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:23am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I did several shots of tequila back in college, and ended up having a serious discussion about whether Druids were a threat to the United States, so really, hard to say. It probably depends a lot on body weight, and general drug tolerance, and how fast you drink.

So, are they?

222 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:25am

re: #215 MandyManners

Enforcing the law is beneath us?

in the case of the border, yes
just an example

223 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:51am

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you can be forgiven the error. South Carolina has really been working overtime on the crazy this past year.

I vote for Alan.

224 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:04:57am

re: #215 MandyManners

Enforcing the law is beneath us?

Expecting the police to arrest someone and a prosecutor to actually spend the time to charge someone for "touching" is a waste of everyones time.

225 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:01am

re: #218 Amory Blaine

"sniff,, sniff sniff"

did I just get a whiff of troll!?!?

226 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:10am

re: #217 Cato the Elder

By the way, Mandy, I read your post about your mom last night.

As one who struggles mightily with tobacco even though I wheeze and cough myself into red-faced tears in the morning, my sympathy is great. I know people who have had tracheotomies and neck surgery for smoking-related cancer and still can't stop themselves from lighting up.

I wish you and your mom all the best, whatever may be best in this trying situation.

Thank you, Cato!!!

227 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:26am

re: #202 Obdicut

Why? He was a double-agent, right? Was he working for the United States?

Clandestine agents may be a necessary evil, but what grounds is there to call it disgusting for the United States not to give asylum to someone who was a double-agent?

And perhaps you'll know the answer to this: has Israel even asked the US to harbor him?

He wasn't a "double" agent -- he was an agent for the Israelis. It is highly probable that the Israelis asked the US to allow him through. As a son of a Hamas official, it's unlikely that he would have been allowed through without the Israelis putting in a good word for him.

The disgusting part is that they are accusing him of giving material aid to Hamas. He was a spy for Israeli counter-terrorism, for crying out loud! How much less terror-supporting can a person be?

It seems like it is just a pointless charade and a waste of time and resources. It's just insanely concerning, that with so many other threats out there, some bureaucrats feel the need to target Mosab.

228 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:43am

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

I really shouldn't judge. I left a job once because a coworker asked me privately not to shoot him when I went postal on the office, and I wasn't totally sure he was kidding.

We should hang out sometime.

229 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:47am

re: #221 Nimed

Going to root for 1/2 of my heritage

GO ITALY!

230 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:54am

re: #209 RogueOne

Where is the fun without the battery?/ I know we've become a nation that looks to everyone else to solve their problems but involving the local PD and prosecutors on something as weak as this I think should be beneath us.

Tell me that one again after someone comes up to you in a state of obvious rage and repeatedly pokes you hard in the chest and shoulder while making drunken threats. It's assault under law and I have every right to have it treated as such.

231 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:05:54am

re: #224 RogueOne

Expecting the police to arrest someone and a prosecutor to actually spend the time to charge someone for "touching" is a waste of everyones time.

Not if it scores political points. I am all over it.

232 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:06:18am

re: #224 RogueOne

Expecting the police to arrest someone and a prosecutor to actually spend the time to charge someone for "touching" is a waste of everyones time.

The intent behind the touch is telling. If it's hostile, it's not a waste of time. If it's accidental, yes, it would be a waste.

233 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:06:29am

re: #225 sattv4u2

Whoever smelt it dealt it.

234 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:06:57am

re: #218 Amory Blaine

Maybe Democrats should travel with authority details and just have the "journalists" detained. Or they could set up Freedom Zones.

Maybe you shouldn't blame all members of a group for one single members hasty actions...

235 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:06:57am

re: #228 RogueOne

We should hang out sometime.

Put that thing back in your pants!

236 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:07:03am

re: #218 Amory Blaine

Maybe Democrats should travel with authority details and just have the "journalists" detained. Or they could set up Freedom Zones.

Huh?

237 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:07:06am

re: #224 RogueOne

Expecting the police to arrest someone and a prosecutor to actually spend the time to charge someone for "touching" is a waste of everyones time.

I see more heated contact between people trying for a seat on the IRT...

238 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:07:24am

re: #218 Amory Blaine

Maybe Democrats should travel with authority details and just have the "journalists" detained. Or they could set up Freedom Zones.

"Free speech" zones were a Bush era feature...usually set up a couple of miles from where the President was appearing so he wouldn't have to see the protestors. Today, people are free to show up outside a Town Hall where the president is speaking carrying loaded firearms.

In the future, add a sarc tag.

239 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:02am

re: #238 darthstar

That was my intent. Sarcasm that is.

240 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:08am

re: #230 Cato the Elder

Tell me that one again after someone comes up to you in a state of obvious rage and repeatedly pokes you hard in the chest and shoulder while making drunken threats. It's assault under law and I have every right to have it treated as such.

*poke*

241 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:12am

re: #230 Cato the Elder

Tell me that one again after someone comes up to you in a state of obvious rage and repeatedly pokes you hard in the chest and shoulder while making drunken threats. It's assault under law and I have every right to have it treated as such.

True but that isn't what happened here. In Indiana you would be within your rights to defend yourself. You can move here anytime, we'll take you.

242 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:30am

re: #191 Shiplord Kirel

This is the guy you want to make friends with if he comes to work at your place. Say nice things about his lunchbox, give him an extra Snickers or something, or maybe a Mounds bar since you don't want to imply that he's nuts. That way, you might be the one he overlooks when he pulls out his gun and starts shooting.

I'm pretty sure I heard somebody do a comedy routine about this.

One day he'll come in with AK and be blasting up the place he'll be all "Hi Frank!" to me because I gave him that soda and then he'll leave the room and go back to shooting up the place....

Darkly hilarious....

243 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:31am

re: #133 RogueOne

Celtic posted it upthread:
re: #90 celticdragon

I meant [from your #92]:

Obviously he neglected to read their "no violence" pledge.

...a link to a "no violence" pledge. I haven't seen one from the Oathkeepers.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:32am

re: #204 JasonA

[Video]

Oh. Alabama again.

OK, that actually sort of appeals to me. Although I did think the last line was going to be "Make me Ag Commissioner or I'll shoot you."

245 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:47am

re: #233 Amory Blaine

Whoever smelt it dealt it.

wow ,,,,,,

just

WOW!

second grade schoolyard,,, Sister Agape's class,, 1961

John Sullivan,, is that you !?!?!

246 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:52am

re: #241 RogueOne

True but that isn't what happened here. In Indiana you would be within your rights to defend yourself. You can move here anytime, we'll take you.

I hated the bus system in Indianapolis.

247 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:08:54am

re: #227 Joo-LiZ

He was an agent for the Israelis while pretending to be working for Hamas. He pretended loyalty to one group while really being loyal to another. There is a reason why such people are often not trusted.

The disgusting part is that they are accusing him of giving material aid to Hamas. He was a spy for Israeli counter-terrorism, for crying out loud! How much less terror-supporting can a person be?

He did give material aid to Hamas. He was not working for Israel throughout his entire career. It is not false to say he gave material aid to Hamas.

It seems like it is just a pointless charade and a waste of time and resources. It's just insanely concerning, that with so many other threats out there, some bureaucrats feel the need to target Mosab.

How is he being 'targeted', exactly?

He has written a book and is now making money from his experiences, as well. That alone lowers my sympathy for him by a huge amount.

248 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:09:28am

re: #241 RogueOne

True but that isn't what happened here. In Indiana you would be within your rights to defend yourself. You can move here anytime, we'll take you.

I understand that but, not everyone wants to engage in a fight with an agitated drunk.

249 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:09:45am

re: #238 darthstar

"Free speech" zones were a Bush era feature...usually set up a couple of miles from where the President was appearing so he wouldn't have to see the protestors. Today, people are free to show up outside a Town Hall where the president is speaking carrying loaded firearms.

In the future, add a sarc tag.

Don't be putting that on Bush, seems the dems were involved with their convention too. Plus, we have that whole thing going on in Louisiana right now.

250 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:09:46am

re: #218 Amory Blaine

Maybe Democrats should travel with authority details and just have the "journalists" detained. Or they could set up Freedom Zones.

Listen, though I admire the cut of your jib and the ideals behind your lingo, the turns of phrase you are using is LGF 2006 - mid to late 2008. The broad brush, though still in use, is held in check and things are being actually analyzed on case by case basis(ese)?. Just put down the idealism and nobody gets hurt and we can all get along and perhaps learn something.

251 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:10:15am

re: #247 Obdicut

He has written a book and is now making money from his experiences, as well. That alone lowers my sympathy for him by a huge amount.

Meh.

252 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:10:30am

re: #217 Cato the Elder

re: #226 MandyManners

I won't get on my soap box but I'm about to loose my seventh and eighth family members those monstrous things and I feel for you both.

253 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:10:43am

re: #246 celticdragon

I hated the bus system in Indianapolis.

It's gotten worse from what I've read. They've eliminated a lot of routes over the last few years.

254 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:10:59am

re: #230 Cato the Elder

Tell me that one again after someone comes up to you in a state of obvious rage and repeatedly pokes you hard in the chest and shoulder while making drunken threats. It's assault under law and I have every right to have it treated as such.

Assault is saying you're going to poke them in the chest; battery is poking them in the chest.

255 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:11:15am

re: #249 RogueOne

Don't be putting that on Bush, seems the dems were involved with their convention too. Plus, we have that whole thing going on in Louisiana right now.

The whole "free speech" zone thing and intimidation of protesters started under Clinton and went hog wild under Bush.

256 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:11:27am

re: #252 Dragon_Lady

Thank you, Dragon_Lady!!!

257 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:12:22am

Iranian cleric wants Iran to have "special weapons" that only a few countries now possess (gee - you mean nuclear weapons, don't you?)

The Associated Press on Monday obtained a copy of a book written by Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah Yazdi in which he wrote Iran should not deprive itself of the right to produce these "special weapons."

Iran's government, as well as its clerical hierarchy, have repeatedly denied the country is seeking nuclear weapons, as alleged by the U.S. and its allies.

The Security Council last week imposed a fourth round of sanctions in response to Tehran's refusal to halt uranium enrichment, which Iran maintains is only for its nuclear energy program, but could conceivably be used to produce material for weapons.

Iran isn't depriving itself of the right to nuclear weapons - it's busy developing the technologies and infrastructure to do just that despite international condemnation over Iran's intentions.

258 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:12:36am

re: #247 Obdicut

I'm sorry, Obdicut. I really don't have the patience at the moment to go through it point by point and pull everything apart. Maybe some other people here who feel the same way as I, can help explain.

To me, it is a matter of the most fundamental common sense that a man who risked life and limb, with much emotional duress, to help save the lives of countless Israelis and Palestinians should not have to defend his actions in a California court or risk deportation.

If you can't understand that... well, we have a serious divergence of opinion.

259 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:12:37am

re: #254 wrenchwench

Assault is saying you're going to poke them in the chest; battery is poking them in the chest.

and if you happen to be holding an ice pick at the time it's even worse...

260 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:12:38am

re: #229 sattv4u2

Going to root for 1/2 of my heritage

GO ITALY!

I'm not rooting for anyone on this match. I like to see the best teams progress to the knockout stage, but the squadra azzurra typically plays extremely tactical games. And by tactical I mean tedious and with few chances to score for each side.

OTOH, very talented players.

261 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:13:24am

re: #256 MandyManners

Thank you, Dragon_Lady!!!

*Snif, snif* My eyes water up every time I hear about someone who's suffering from a cigarette related problem. I'm so glad RWC and I quite smoking over 20 years ago.

262 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:13:43am

re: #247 Obdicut

He was an agent for the Israelis while pretending to be working for Hamas. He pretended loyalty to one group while really being loyal to another. There is a reason why such people are often not trusted.

How is he being 'targeted', exactly?

He has written a book and is now making money from his experiences, as well. That alone lowers my sympathy for him by a huge amount.

//Yes, how dare he take advantage of the American's peoples interest in learning about those who are trying to kill us by being willing to give us a view into the world he witnessed while risking his life in return for monetary compensation!

Seriously these days you don't get much more "American" than getting rich of whatever book you've writen about whatever s*** you've done...

263 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:14:01am

re: #257 lawhawk

Iranian cleric wants Iran to have "special weapons" that only a few countries now possess (gee - you mean nuclear weapons, don't you?)

Iran isn't depriving itself of the right to nuclear weapons - it's busy developing the technologies and infrastructure to do just that despite international condemnation over Iran's intentions.

while everybody sits on their ass doing nothing....how ironic is it that the KSA is the only country doing anything proactive?

264 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:14:11am

re: #254 wrenchwench

Assault is saying you're going to poke them in the chest; battery is poking them in the chest.

That is not my understanding of the legal situation, but I'm not Lawhawk.

265 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:14:14am

And, yes, I should have walked away after that punk called me that word but, I didn't. Good thing the jury agreed with my attorney that that was a fighting word.

266 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:14:31am

re: #260 Nimed

I'm not rooting for anyone on this match. I like to see the best teams progress to the knockout stage, but the squadra azzurra typically plays extremely tactical games. And by tactical I mean tedious and with few chances to score for each side.

OTOH, very talented players.

well I should go around the corner when Italy plays... free pizza!

267 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:14:45am

re: #257 lawhawk

Iranian cleric wants Iran to have "special weapons" that only a few countries now possess (gee - you mean nuclear weapons, don't you?)

..snip

Includes chem and bio, in DoD-speak.

268 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:15:02am

re: #261 Dragon_Lady

*Snif, snif* My eyes water up every time I hear about someone who's suffering from a cigarette related problem. I'm so glad RWC and I quite smoking over 20 years ago.

It's the hardest darn thing to stop doing 'cause once you get over the physical addiction, you gotta' tackle the psychological addiction.

269 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:15:39am

re: #258 Joo-LiZ

I'm sorry, Obdicut. I really don't have the patience at the moment to go through it point by point and pull everything apart. Maybe some other people here who feel the same way as I, can help explain.

To me, it is a matter of the most fundamental common sense that a man who risked life and limb, with much emotional duress, to help save the lives of countless Israelis and Palestinians should not have to defend his actions in a California court or risk deportation.

If you can't understand that... well, we have a serious divergence of opinion.

He can obey our immigration laws like anyone else. If we can deport productive Mexican business owners and people who have lived here twenty years, we can deport him too. Fair is fair.

If you don't like it, work to change the laws.

270 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:15:43am

re: #257 lawhawk

Iranian cleric wants Iran to have "special weapons" that only a few countries now possess (gee - you mean nuclear weapons, don't you?)

Iran isn't depriving itself of the right to nuclear weapons - it's busy developing the technologies and infrastructure to do just that despite international condemnation over Iran's intentions.

A Dan Quayle moment! "It isn't pollution that is ruining our environment, it's the impurities in our air and water."

271 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:16:10am

re: #264 Cato the Elder

That is not my understanding of the legal situation, but I'm not Lawhawk.

Different states, different definitions.

272 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:16:12am

If I seem a bit out of sorts (more than usual) today, this is why:

Haku woke me up out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night with a tremendous, fearful coughing fit. Repeated again a few minutes later. I held him while it was going on, and afterwards he came right up under my armpit and snuggled until he felt better. He never does that unless he's in fear or pain. Poor boy!

273 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:16:53am

re: #268 MandyManners

It's the hardest darn thing to stop doing 'cause once you get over the physical addiction, you gotta' tackle the psychological addiction.

Hell, I'm 22 and I've mostly stopped drinking for the summer to make sure I still can... I can't imagine giving up smoking after decades. Kudos to everyone who can do that.

274 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:05am

re: #258 Joo-LiZ

I'm sorry, Obdicut. I really don't have the patience at the moment to go through it point by point and pull everything apart. Maybe some other people here who feel the same way as I, can help explain.

When you don't have the patience to convince someone, don't be surprised when they remain unconvinced.


To me, it is a matter of the most fundamental common sense that a man who risked life and limb, with much emotional duress, to help save the lives of countless Israelis and Palestinians should not have to defend his actions in a California court or risk deportation.

Why? California is not Israel. There are lots of people all over the world who have worked to save lives in many different ways. Should all of them be granted automatic asylum in the United States?


If you can't understand that... well, we have a serious divergence of opinion.

Putting it in terms of me not being able to understand is needlessly insulting. I understand perfectly well the grounds on which you want him granted asylum in the United States. I do not understand why he is more important and special than many other people who have straightforwardly suffered and worked to save lives in this world.

Many, many in the IDF, for example, have worked and risked death to save Palestinian and Israeli (and American, for that matter) lives in the US. Should they all be granted asylum in the US if they request it?

275 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:17am

re: #264 Cato the Elder

That is not my understanding of the legal situation, but I'm not Lawhawk.

it varies from state to state...in MI you are assaulting a person if you threaten, intimidate another to the point of fear..simple assault, where battery is contact made to threaten...or actually whack somebody obviously

276 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:25am

Ah, I just reminded myself I have yet another birthday coming up a week from today, I'll be 61 (YIKES!).
My daughter asked me what I wanted for a present. I told her just to send the grandchildren around. Their great-grandmother would bake a German chocolate cake for us and that would be more than enough.

277 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:39am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

If I seem a bit out of sorts (more than usual) today, this is why:

Haku woke me up out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night with a tremendous, fearful coughing fit. Repeated again a few minutes later. I held him while it was going on, and afterwards he came right up under my armpit and snuggled until he felt better. He never does that unless he's in fear or pain. Poor boy!

My cat's an armpit sleeper...which is fine until he reaches out and claws me under the arm at 2am as he's adjusting his position.

Best to Haku.

278 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:41am

re: #264 Cato the Elder

That is not my understanding of the legal situation, but I'm not Lawhawk.

Nor am I, but I am related to lawyers, and wikipedia agrees with me.

/Those are the weakest justifications I've ever typed.

:/

279 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:17:45am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

I hope whatever it is isn't serious and passes quickly.

280 darthstar  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:18:09am

Okay...time to get some actual work done.

Later, gators.

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:18:33am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

If I seem a bit out of sorts (more than usual) today, this is why:

Haku woke me up out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night with a tremendous, fearful coughing fit. Repeated again a few minutes later. I held him while it was going on, and afterwards he came right up under my armpit and snuggled until he felt better. He never does that unless he's in fear or pain. Poor boy!

Poor puppy. Vet trip?

282 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:18:52am

re: #274 Obdicut

PIMF:

Many, many in the IDF, for example, have worked and risked death to save Palestinian and Israeli (and American, for that matter) lives in the US.

283 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:18:53am

re: #247 Obdicut

He has written a book and is now making money from his experiences, as well. That alone lowers my sympathy for him by a huge amount.

I also happen to think that book is far more about bringing to light the unique perspective he had of Hamas. I really believe it was more about getting the story out there, helping people to understand the situation, than to try to make money. Even what money he is making, it's not like he is filthy rich.

While he was writing it, he was living off the charity of his friends in whatever church he is part of now in California. I for one don't mind giving him the little bit of cash I did when I purchased the book.

Question: Have you read the book?

284 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:18:58am

re: #277 darthstar

My cat's an armpit sleeper...which is fine until he reaches out and claws me under the arm at 2am as he's adjusting his position.

Best to Haku.

My brother's cat isn't an armpit sleeper, but she likes to be fed, a lot. As I discovered over the weekend if she isn't fed by 8:00 AM she'll jump right into bed with you and start nudging you with her paws (claws in thankfully) over and over again.

285 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:19:08am

re: #268 MandyManners

It's the hardest darn thing to stop doing 'cause once you get over the physical addiction, you gotta' tackle the psychological addiction.

My best-friend is an admitted alcoholic and an ex-drug user and she still can't get off the cigarettes. She lost her Dad to lung cancer from smoking and wants to quit in the worst way but just can't kick the habit. At least she's cut down on how many shes smoking on a daily basis, from a pack and a half to half a pack a day now. I'm very proud of her.

286 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:19:35am

re: #264 Cato the Elder

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.

287 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:20:05am

Fuck. I shoulda shorted BP at the open.

288 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:20:14am

re: #273 McSpiff

Hell, I'm 22 and I've mostly stopped drinking for the summer to make sure I still can... I can't imagine giving up smoking after decades. Kudos to everyone who can do that.

Just don't start smoking.

289 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:20:39am

BBL

290 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:21:03am

re: #286 MandyManners

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.

Oops.

[Link: legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

291 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:21:27am

re: #286 MandyManners

Now that sounds authoritative!

292 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:21:33am

re: #287 Boogberg

Fuck. I shoulda shorted BP at the open.

I am waiting till they hit bottom to buy & hold.

293 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:21:46am

re: #288 MandyManners

Just don't start smoking.

I got in the habit of smoking when I drink. Another reason I've cut the booze.

294 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:21:58am

re: #290 MandyManners

Oooh, and it comes with a link!

295 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:22:08am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

If I seem a bit out of sorts (more than usual) today, this is why:

Haku woke me up out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night with a tremendous, fearful coughing fit. Repeated again a few minutes later. I held him while it was going on, and afterwards he came right up under my armpit and snuggled until he felt better. He never does that unless he's in fear or pain. Poor boy!

Cato, I have asthma and I can tell you that that kind of coughing fit is really scary! Keep an eye on him, if his lips turn bluish and he gets really sleep afterward rush him to a doctor, pronto! He could be suffocating and you'd never know it.

296 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:22:09am

re: #272 Cato the Elder

If I seem a bit out of sorts (more than usual) today, this is why:

Haku woke me up out of a sound sleep in the middle of the night with a tremendous, fearful coughing fit. Repeated again a few minutes later. I held him while it was going on, and afterwards he came right up under my armpit and snuggled until he felt better. He never does that unless he's in fear or pain. Poor boy!

Scratch his belly for me.

297 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:22:17am

re: #20 Summer

It is amazing to me how incredibly stupid these Teabaggers are.

There is all the difference in the world between raising taxes without representation, and raising taxes by a representative government!

These bloody morons need to shut the hell up and learn their basics in history class before they open their vacuous and vile mouths again and again.

This is the whole imagery of the Tea party: the original Tea party was rebelling against an unelected parliament 3,000 miles away.

There is a big difference between that and a government that was elected by a majority vote in a free election.

298 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:22:19am

re: #265 MandyManners

And, yes, I should have walked away after that punk called me that word but, I didn't. Good thing the jury agreed with my attorney that that was a fighting word.

Note to self: If you're saying goodbye to Mandy, don't say to her, "See you next Tuesday."

299 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #285 Dragon_Lady

My best-friend is an admitted alcoholic and an ex-drug user and she still can't get off the cigarettes. She lost her Dad to lung cancer from smoking and wants to quit in the worst way but just can't kick the habit. At least she's cut down on how many shes smoking on a daily basis, from a pack and a half to half a pack a day now. I'm very proud of her.

That's quite an accomplishment.

300 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:23:32am

UC-Irvine Suspends Muslim Student Group for Disrupting Speech


The University of California at Irvine has suspended the campus's Muslim Student Union for one year and placed the group on disciplinary probation after members of the group repeatedly interrupted a campus speech in February by Israel's ambassador to the United States, according to a letter released on Monday.

The hecklers shouted down the ambassador, Michael Oren, at times calling him a "killer" and scuttling parts of the speech. Video of the event drew international attention and sparked a debate about the tactics of the protesters, who said they were angry about Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

A university review found that the group had planned the disruption in advance, and that it had violated a number of campus policies, including disruption of university activities and disorderly conduct. The group will be banned from the campus until at least September 2011, and its members will be required to complete 50 hours of community service, according to the letter, supplied by the university in response to a public-records request.

A campus spokeswoman, Cathy Lawhon, said the university would not yet comment on the findings because the matter is confidential and the Muslim Student Union still has the option to appeal the findings to the dean of students. Representatives of the Muslim Student Union did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

301 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:23:35am

re: #291 wrenchwench

Now that sounds authoritative!

I'm embarassed because I forgot to include the link.

302 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:23:53am

re: #295 Dragon_Lady

Cato, I have asthma and I can tell you that that kind of coughing fit is really scary! Keep an eye on him, if his lips turn bluish and he gets really sleep afterward rush him to a doctor, pronto! He could be suffocating and you'd never know it.

Um, Cato, were you talking about a kid or a cat? Or eve a dog? Did I step my foot into an "oooops" ?

303 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:24:08am

re: #293 McSpiff

I got in the habit of smoking when I drink. Another reason I've cut the booze.

I read somewhere a long time ago that the two increase each other's desire and effects.

304 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:24:27am

re: #285 Dragon_Lady

My best-friend is an admitted alcoholic and an ex-drug user and she still can't get off the cigarettes. She lost her Dad to lung cancer from smoking and wants to quit in the worst way but just can't kick the habit. At least she's cut down on how many shes smoking on a daily basis, from a pack and a half to half a pack a day now. I'm very proud of her.

I am trying to cut down also... and right now I am staring at the pack on the desk & waiting for 3:00.

305 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:24:30am

re: #283 Joo-LiZ

Even what money he is making, it's not like he is filthy rich.

How wealthy is he, then, since apparently you're privy to the details of his book deal?

Question: Have you read the book?

No. I'll probably check it out eventually, but I've read plenty of books on Hamas, religious conversion, and clandestine operatives. I'm not sure what this question has to do with what we're talking about; you seem to be making the argument that this particular person deserves asylum, but I'm making the argument that the same criteria you're using to say that about him could equally well apply to most of the people in the IDF, or in the clandestine services of any allied nation.

306 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:24:58am

re: #298 Mad Al-Jaffee

Note to self: If you're saying goodbye to Mandy, don't say to her, "See you next Tuesday."

It took me a few seconds to get that.

307 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:25:26am
308 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:25:48am

re: #288 MandyManners

Just don't start smoking.

in bed

309 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:25:50am

for all you smokers...

310 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:25:53am

re: #292 brookly red

I am waiting till they hit bottom to buy & hold.

Thing is, zero may be the bottom. That is highly speculative, of course.

311 KingKenrod  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:25:54am

re: #300 NJDhockeyfan

UC-Irvine Suspends Muslim Student Group for Disrupting Speech

Well, there's a pig flying moment.

312 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:26:16am

re: #304 brookly red

I am trying to cut down also... and right now I am staring at the pack on the desk & waiting for 3:00.

Put it out of sight, I know thats hard to do. But as they say "Outta sight, outta mind" I'm not going to preach, I've learned that it only pisses off my friends but I really do worry about my friends that do smoke. Feel free to ignore anything I type, I don't want to piss you off.

313 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:26:25am

re: #303 MandyManners

I read somewhere a long time ago that the two increase each other's desire and effects.

I don't doubt it. I might have a cigar once or twice a year sober, but after a pint of rum I'll smoke anything... cigar, cigarillo, cigs, hookah, you name it.

314 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:27:08am

re: #310 Boogberg

Thing is, zero may be the bottom. That is highly speculative, of course.

no the worst case is bankruptcy which is a good chance...

315 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:27:34am

re: #313 McSpiff

I don't doubt it. I might have a cigar once or twice a year sober, but after a pint of rum I'll smoke anything... cigar, cigarillo, cigs, hookah, you name it.

After a pint of rum I'd be looking for my liver.

316 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:27:50am

re: #308 Mad Al-Jaffee

in bed

Have to douse you in cold water.

317 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:28:09am

re: #312 Dragon_Lady

Put it out of sight, I know thats hard to do. But as they say "Outta sight, outta mind" I'm not going to preach, I've learned that it only pisses off my friends but I really do worry about my friends that do smoke. Feel free to ignore anything I type, I don't want to piss you off.

it's all good I just stare at them & wait for 3:00...

318 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:28:38am

re: #313 McSpiff

I don't doubt it. I might have a cigar once or twice a year sober, but after a pint of rum I'll smoke anything... cigar, cigarillo, cigs, hookah, you name it.

Oooh, that is rich with potential but I'll resist.

319 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:28:49am

re: #314 brookly red

Well that's what I was getting at. My bad. :D

320 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:15am

NJ Terror Suspect Wanted To Take His Kitteh To Egypt
[Link: gothamist.com...]

321 calochortus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:16am

Hmmm, a little late to the party here, but I gather Rick Barber wants to return to tried and true taxes accepted by the founding fathers such as window taxes? I can't wait to see those implemented...

322 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:38am

re: #319 Boogberg

Well that's what I was getting at. My bad. :D

the worst case is we drive em under & China buys em...

323 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:42am

re: #318 MandyManners

Oooh, that is rich with potential but I'll resist.

And now everyone in the lab is staring at me...

324 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:53am

Charles, get a load of this. This lunatic yokel is boasting about an endorsement by guess who? Pam Geller.

This is from his website:

Rick Barber has also been endorsed by Liberty First PAC, Iraq Vets for Congress PAC and Pamela Geller of the popular Atlas Shrugs blog.
...
Rick Barber has already been endorsed by Liberty First PAC and Pamela Geller of the popular ”Atlas Shrugs” blog.
...
Rick Barber earns Atlas Endorsement, Interviewed by Pamela Geller at C-PAC.
...

It's all right here.

He's also endorsed by Erick "I'll 'pull out my wife's shotgun' if" Erickson.

He's like the right wing candidate for aggressive wingnut bloggers.

325 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:29:55am

re: #313 McSpiff

I don't doubt it. I might have a cigar once or twice a year sober, but after a pint of rum I'll smoke anything... cigar, cigarillo, cigs, hookah, you name it.

even a pole?

326 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:30:55am

re: #323 McSpiff

And now everyone in the lab is staring at me...

they should...are you on the clock?

327 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:31:11am

re: #324 Gus 802

Charles, get a load of this. This lunatic yokel is boasting about an endorsement by guess who? Pam Geller.

This is from his website:

It's all right here.

He's also endorsed by Erick "I'll 'pull out my wife's shotgun' if" Erickson.

He's like the right wing candidate for aggressive wingnut bloggers.

Good catch. A moronic convergence if there ever was one.

328 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:31:18am

re: #321 calochortus

I had to look up that term. Nifty. Did we ever have those in the US-- post-revolution?

329 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:32:06am

re: #320 Mad Al-Jaffee

NJ Terror Suspect Wanted To Take His Kitteh To Egypt
[Link: gothamist.com...]

It glows.

330 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:32:09am

re: #310 Boogberg

Thing is, zero may be the bottom. That is highly speculative, of course.

This just in BP stock has surpassed all expectations, if you own it is a symbol that you are a bad person and thus owe the rest of America Money. The current value of BP stock seems to be holding steady at negative two cents....

331 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:32:46am

re: #324 Gus 802

Beatcha' to it.

332 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:33:00am

re: #326 albusteve

they should...are you on the clock?

I am, but the work is time sensitive so I'm just killing time till I gotta work again.

333 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:33:01am

Iran sends aid ships to Gaza


Iran is sending two aid shipments towards Gaza, officials said today, a move likely to further heighten tensions with Israel.

One ship left on Sunday and another, carrying food, construction materials and toys, was due to depart later this week, Iranian state radio said. According to the country's ISNA news agency, the shipment is being organised by the Society for the Defence of the Palestinian Nation, which insists it is not connected to the Iranian state. "Until the end of the Gaza blockade, Iran will continue to ship aid," an official from the organisation was quoted as saying by Reuters.

334 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:33:15am

re: #331 MandyManners

Snarky asshole.

335 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:33:37am

re: #331 MandyManners

Beatcha' to it.

I see. OK, back to bed for me.

336 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:34:43am

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Iran sends aid ships to Gaza

It was not clear if the two ships will attempt to sail directly to Gaza or go to adjoining Egypt. In January last year an Iranian boat was refused permission to unload a shipment of supplies for Gaza after it docked in Egypt.

Does Egypt have to let it through the canal?

337 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:35:04am

re: #335 Gus 802

I see. OK, back to bed for me.

Sorry. I was feeling smug.

338 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:36:50am

re: #337 MandyManners

Sorry. I was feeling smug.

Didn't come off as smug. I didn't notice that you had already posted that. Just got up and went to the bottom of this thread so... you beat me to it.

339 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:37:00am

re: #337 MandyManners

Sorry. I was feeling smug.

in b... No, Mandy was nice to me. I'll leave it.

340 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:39:07am

re: #335 Gus 802

I see. OK, back to bed for me.

Nah, that's okay. You can stay up, for a while longer that is. ;)

341 calochortus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:39:23am

re: #328 Obdicut

I'm fairly certain window taxes persisted into the early years of the U.S. It was an attempt to levy a property tax that had some relationship to the value of the building and hence the owner's finances (Oh Noes! Progressive taxes!) I'm not saying Americans loved it, but they paid it-lthough some people bricked over their windows to avoid paying more taxes. (This shows I paid attention when we did the "historic Philadelphia" thing with the kids...)

342 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:39:49am

re: #264 Cato the Elder

I figure this happened in DC, so, let's go to DC law (via Michie).
22-403. Assault with intent to commit any other offense [Formerly § 22-503].

Whoever assaults another with intent to commit any other offense which may be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years.

This would be the likely charge if law enforcement does take any action.

22-407. Threats to do bodily harm [Formerly § 22-507].

Whoever is convicted in the District of threats to do bodily harm shall be fined not more than $500 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, in addition thereto, or in lieu thereof, may be required to give bond to keep the peace for a period not exceeding 1 year.
343 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:40:08am

re: #330 jamesfirecat

This just in BP stock has surpassed all expectations, if you own it is a symbol that you are a bad person and thus owe the rest of America Money. The current value of BP stock seems to be holding steady at negative two cents...

Yeah I know. But then, in spite of all we know, tobacco stocks are doing well. Go figure.

344 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:40:11am

re: #324 Gus 802

Charles, get a load of this. This lunatic yokel is boasting about an endorsement by guess who? Pam Geller.

This is from his website:

It's all right here.

He's also endorsed by Erick "I'll 'pull out my wife's shotgun' if" Erickson.

He's like the right wing candidate for aggressive wingnut bloggers.

Liberty First, one of his endorsers, is an Eric Odom production:


Liberty First PAC Team

Advisory Committee
The following individuals are volunteers and do not serve in any official capacity within the political action committee. Each member of the advisory committee is simply here to help with advice on strategy and candidate support.
-Tim McClellan
-Michael Durbin
-Daniel Smeriglio
-Ken Cook
-Janice Birnbaum
-Ryan J Gill
-Jean McClellan-Chambers
-Dani Martin
-Susan K. Southwick
-LaJuana Gillette
-Michael Avery
-Reva Dossett
-Allen Unruh
-Joe Pandolfe

Official Committee Members
The following is a list of official PAC committee members
-Eric Odom
-Ken Marrero
-Steve Foley

345 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:40:46am

re: #324 Gus 802

From your link:

“Pamela was a firecracker,” says Rick Barber. “She’s intelligent, witty, conservative and tenacious. I’m proud to have her endorsement.”

A firecracker is something like an incendiary bomb I guess, but he is understating the case by orders of magnitude.

346 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:41:33am

re: #345 Shiplord Kirel

From your link:

A firecracker is something like an incendiary bomb I guess, but he is understating the case by orders of magnitude.

pfft!...it's all about her tits

347 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:41:59am

re: #344 wrenchwench

Odom's always creeping around in the background with these guys.

348 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:42:30am

re: #338 Gus 802

Didn't come off as smug. I didn't notice that you had already posted that. Just got up and went to the bottom of this thread so... you beat me to it.

I wonder if he accepts donations via PayPal.

349 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:42:49am

re: #348 MandyManners

I wonder if he accepts donations via PayPal.

Not any more!

//

350 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:43:28am

re: #305 Obdicut

From Mosab's blog:

It began when I arrived in America January 2, 2007. I walked into the airport like anyone else on a tourist visa. Seven months later, I went to the Homeland Security office, knocked on their door and told them, “Hey, guys, I am the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, my father is involved in a terrorist organization, and I would like political asylum in your country.”

They were shocked. They didn’t expect it. I told them, hey, you didn’t discover me. You didn’t catch me. I came to you and told you who I am to wake you up. I wanted them to see that they have huge gaps in their security and their understanding of terrorism and make changes before it’s too late.

I filed an application for political asylum. Not surprisingly, on February 23, 2009, they told me that I was “barred from a grant of asylum because there were reasonable grounds for believing [I] was a danger to the security of the United States and because [I] engaged in terrorist activity.”

More hearings followed. When they demanded evidence to support my claim that I was not a terrorist or a security threat, I filed a draft of my book, Son of Hamas. Surely this would make everything perfectly clear. They would discover that I was an intelligence agent, not a terrorist. That I tracked down terrorists and put them in prison. That I was an asset, not a threat.

But they didn’t get it.

Recently, I received a document in which Homeland Security senior attorney Kerri Calcador claimed that, “In the book, the respondent discusses his extensive involvement with Hamas in great detail. For example, in one portion of the book, a member of Shin Bet shows the respondent a list of suspects implicated in a March 2001 suicide bombing and asks the respondent whether he knows the individuals. The respondent indicates that he does know five of the people on the list and states that he previously drove them to safe houses.”

On page 5, Ms. Calcador concluded that, “At a bare minimum, evidence of the respondent’s transport of Hamas members to safe houses—discussed above in the Statement of the Case as but one example of the respondent’s involvement with Hamas—indicates that the respondent provided material support to a [Tier I] terrorist organization.

Is she kidding? Either Homeland Security’s chief attorney has zero reading comprehension, or else she intentionally took the passage out of context. And I am not sure which is worse.

Even a child reading the book can see that, during that time, I was working as a secret agent for the Shin Bet (Israeli’s internal security service, comparable to our FBI). My job required me to do anything I could to be involved with my father’s activities. So when he asked me to go with him to pick up these guys when they were released from the Palestinian Authority prison, I went.

What I am saying, is that the grounds on which the DHS is refusing to grant him asylum (that he is a terrorist threat to the United States) is absurd given what we know about him.

Further, unlike in the case of other operatives from other countries, he is neither British, nor Israeli, nor American. If he were deported back to the Palestinian Territories, he would surely be killed as a traitor and collaborator.

I can accept your argument of "Why should he be allowed in California?" but this clearly smacks of a witch-hunt, and entirely unnecessary.

351 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:43:45am

re: #347 Gus 802

Odom's always creeping around in the background with these guys.

Ahhh, another one of those who slithered out from the bottom of the gene pool eh?

352 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:44:00am

re: #341 calochortus

I'm fairly certain window taxes persisted into the early years of the U.S. It was an attempt to levy a property tax that had some relationship to the value of the building and hence the owner's finances (Oh Noes! Progressive taxes!) I'm not saying Americans loved it, but they paid it-lthough some people bricked over their windows to avoid paying more taxes. (This shows I paid attention when we did the "historic Philadelphia" thing with the kids...)

They did that in Europe too... bricking their windows... I have pictures of buildings in Paris where you can see the evidence of that...

353 Semper Fi  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:44:08am

re: #268 MandyManners

It's the hardest darn thing to stop doing 'cause once you get over the physical addiction, you gotta' tackle the psychological addiction.

Good morning all,
Mandy, your post certainly brought back memories. Decades ago, after trying and failing to quit smoking many times, I sent for and received information from the Surgeon Generals Office. It was about the time the 'Warning' notice was included on the side each cigarette package therefor it has indeed been decades. The received info made all the difference and finally, I quit. The info addressed both the physical and psychological addiction you mentioned and sufficiently prepared me for what was to come, withdrawal, mind games, etc. It even said to prepare for that time months after quitting when I would have occasion to smoke, reminding me, I was no longer a smoker. It happened (I was drunk), the info kicked-in, I never lit up again.
Good luck to anyone trying to kick the smoking addiction. There are ways.

354 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:44:25am

re: #341 calochortus

I'm fairly certain window taxes persisted into the early years of the U.S. It was an attempt to levy a property tax that had some relationship to the value of the building and hence the owner's finances (Oh Noes! Progressive taxes!) I'm not saying Americans loved it, but they paid it-lthough some people bricked over their windows to avoid paying more taxes. (This shows I paid attention when we did the "historic Philadelphia" thing with the kids...)

One of the things that led to the abolition of the window tax in England was that landlords were blocking up windows, leading to an increase in illness and contagious diseases.

355 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:44:45am

re: #348 MandyManners

I wonder if he accepts donations via PayPal.

I wish I had the bucks to start up a paypal like alternative... I would call it Capitalist Tool.

356 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:45:11am

Oh good grief, the Texas GOP has officially gone over the deep end.

Birchers, dog whistles, and a US Senator giving a speech that would have been right at home in 1930s Germany. And we had Michelle Bachmann here too.

Slater: Texas Republicans display a siege mentality

Some snippets:

“The fox is in the henhouse,” said congressional candidate Stephen Broden of DeSoto of the myriad enemies bearing down on conservatives. “And they have one thing in mind — fried chicken salad.”


At the Voice of the Martyrs booth was a map of Christians persecuted for their religion. The John Birch Society was selling a book, Inside the Terror Triangle, in which Washington, Moscow and the Middle East have collaborated against hapless American families.


When Sen. John Cornyn took the stage Friday and enumerated the myriad sources of their persecution, they cheered.
“Liberals want to turn our state over to the trial lawyers,” Cornyn said. “Liberals want to turn our state over to union bosses. Liberals want to turn our state over to intellectuals.”

Faraone prayed for divine intervention to seal the US-Mexican border to stem the tide of illegal immigration: “Because of iniquity, the United States-Mexican border is shrouded in spiritual darkness.”

Still, pending God’s help on the border, there are some things the victims on this side can do, she said — noting in her prayer the sheriff of Hudspeth County, who is urging Texans on the border to arm themselves.

357 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:45:32am

re: #353 Semper Fi

Good morning all,
Mandy, your post certainly brought back memories. Decades ago, after trying and failing to quit smoking many times, I sent for and received information from the Surgeon Generals Office. It was about the time the 'Warning' notice was included on the side each cigarette package therefor it has indeed been decades. The received info made all the difference and finally, I quit. The info addressed both the physical and psychological addiction you mentioned and sufficiently prepared me for what was to come, withdrawal, mind games, etc. It even said to prepare for that time months after quitting when I would have occasion to smoke, reminding me, I was no longer a smoker. It happened (I was drunk), the info kicked-in, I never lit up again.
Good luck to anyone trying to kick the smoking addiction. There are ways.

Good on you SemperFi! Up-ding for quitting!

358 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:45:34am

re: #355 brookly red

I wish I had the bucks to start up a paypal like alternative... I would call it Capitalist Tool.


We already suggested a special conservative women's money exchange site: Pay Palin

359 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:45:42am

re: #302 Dragon_Lady

Um, Cato, were you talking about a kid or a cat? Or eve a dog? Did I step my foot into an "ooops" ?

Haku is my medical service dog and constant companion. He seems fine today, but I'm keeping an eye on him. It was just very scary to be awakened like that.

360 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:45:51am

re: #351 Dragon_Lady

Ahhh, another one of those who slithered out from the bottom of the gene pool eh?

He started out working for the Ron Paul campaign so yeah, that's about it. He is a milder Adam Kokesh type.

361 McSpiff  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:46:26am

re: #350 Joo-LiZ

Are we positive that what he says is on the up and up? I know a few "double agents" in the IRA went above and beyond... I'm gonan defer to DHS on this one. Its not like they don't know about his book or how to contact the Israelis. If they still says he's a threat, I'm going to believe it.

362 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:46:49am
Then the angel said, 'Gather your armies together within three days.' When the tyrant had gathered his armies, God commanded the angel to release against them a pestilence of flies. There were so many flies that when the sun rose, they could not see it. God sent the flies against them so that they ate their flesh and drank their blood, leaving nothing but bones. The king, however, was spared. Then God sent against him one fly which entered into his nostril. He remained thus [the fly eating his brain] for four hundred years, and the people used to beat his head with hammers trying to kill the fly or drive it out. The most compassionate man toward him was one who clasped his hands together and hit him over the head with them. He practised [sic] tyranny for four hundred years, so God punished him for the duration of his reign, after which he died.

-Zayd ibn Aslam
From The History of Al-Tabari, Volume 5

363 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:47:19am

re: #353 Semper Fi

It even said to prepare for that time months after quitting when I would have occasion to smoke

Sitting down to the computer. Getting into the car. After dinner. When I get up in the morning. Getting out of the shower. Gah.

364 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:47:19am

re: #360 Gus 802

He started out working for the Ron Paul campaign so yeah, that's about it. He is a milder Adam Kokesh type.

Yuk! I can do without those "Types".

365 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:47:31am

re: #362 goddamnedfrank

Thank you I knew I heard that somewhere before...

366 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:48:41am

re: #342 lawhawk

And to clarify - it's the latter crime that is listed - threats to do bodily harm - that would be at issue with the Rep. assault of the individual in the video.

367 Gus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:49:51am

Back in a while/bit.

368 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:50:07am

re: #363 MandyManners

Sitting down to the computer. Getting into the car. After dinner. When I get up in the morning. Getting out of the shower. Gah.

RWC and I both quit at the same time, we both had the flu so badly that we couldn't even look at a pack of cigs with out hacking our lungs out, we decided to see how long we could go without smoking. Its been 23 yeas and counting since, but that's what it took to get us both off of those killers. My hats off to anyone whose quit and stayed off them.

369 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:50:12am

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

Iran sends aid ships to Gaza

And if arms are found hidden on one of those shipments it will be due to a plant by Mossad as a false flag operation attempting to discredit the aid operation. Win-Win.

/ (sorta)

370 Semper Fi  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:50:15am

re: #357 Dragon_Lady

Good on you SemperFi! Up-ding for quitting!

Thank you. And, that 'heavy' package of info covered it all. Don't know if such info is still available though.

371 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:50:30am

re: #356 RadicalModerate

Oh good grief, the Texas GOP has officially gone over the deep end.

Birchers, dog whistles, and a US Senator giving a speech that would have been right at home in 1930s Germany. And we had Michelle Bachmann here too.

Slater: Texas Republicans display a siege mentality

Some snippets:

“The fox is in the henhouse,” said congressional candidate Stephen Broden of DeSoto of the myriad enemies bearing down on conservatives. “And they have one thing in mind — fried chicken salad.”

At the Voice of the Martyrs booth was a map of Christians persecuted for their religion. The John Birch Society was selling a book, Inside the Terror Triangle, in which Washington, Moscow and the Middle East have collaborated against hapless American families.

When Sen. John Cornyn took the stage Friday and enumerated the myriad sources of their persecution, they cheered.
“Liberals want to turn our state over to the trial lawyers,” Cornyn said. “Liberals want to turn our state over to union bosses. Liberals want to turn our state over to intellectuals.”

Faraone prayed for divine intervention to seal the US-Mexican border to stem the tide of illegal immigration: “Because of iniquity, the United States-Mexican border is shrouded in spiritual darkness.”

Still, pending God’s help on the border, there are some things the victims on this side can do, she said — noting in her prayer the sheriff of Hudspeth County, who is urging Texans on the border to arm themselves.

The GOP/Fundamentalist/Cheap Labor Axis practically runs Texas these days.

372 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:50:33am

re: #363 MandyManners

Sitting down to the computer. Getting into the car. After dinner. When I get up in the morning. Getting out of the shower. Gah.

if you get one of those "Breakfast at Tiffany's" cigarette holders you can smoke IN the shower...

373 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:51:47am

re: #370 Semper Fi

Thank you. And, that 'heavy' package of info covered it all. Don't know if such info is still available though.

Oh yeah it is, they'll bury you in info if you let them.

374 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:51:54am

re: #369 oaktree

And if arms are found hidden on one of those shipments it will be due to a plant by Mossad as a false flag operation attempting to discredit the aid operation. Win-Win.

/ (sorta)

more likely they will vanish at sea without a trace....

375 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:51:59am

re: #350 Joo-LiZ

What I am saying, is that the grounds on which the DHS is refusing to grant him asylum (that he is a terrorist threat to the United States) is absurd given what we know about him.

That we know he is capable of pretending loyalty where he has no loyalty, you mean?

Further, unlike in the case of other operatives from other countries, he is neither British, nor Israeli, nor American. If he were deported back to the Palestinian Territories, he would surely be killed as a traitor and collaborator.

Very, very good reason for Israel to grant him asylum, definitely.

I can accept your argument of "Why should he be allowed in California?" but this clearly smacks of a witch-hunt, and entirely unnecessary.

I'm sorry, in what way is this a 'witch hunt', at all? That phrase doesn't seem remotely applicable.

376 Semper Fi  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:52:06am

re: #363 MandyManners

Sitting down to the computer. Getting into the car. After dinner. When I get up in the morning. Getting out of the shower. Gah.

Yes, I remember it well. Good luck.

377 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:52:08am

re: #372 brookly red

if you get one of those "Breakfast at Tiffany's" cigarette holders you can smoke IN the shower...

Brilliant!

378 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:52:12am

Iran dress code bars 71 women from flights


T

EHRAN - Seventy-one Iranian women "improperly" dressed were prevented from boarding flights in recent months, an airport official said on Monday, as a police crackdown on the behaviour of young people intensified.

Iranian airports security chief Nabiollah Heidari told ILNA news agency that "in the first 82 days of the current Iranian year (which began on March 21), 71 women were barred from boarding flights because they were improperly dressed."

"Their cases have been forwarded to the judiciary," he added.

Iranian women have to abide by an enforced Islamic dress code, and summer crackdowns on what the authorities perceive to be un-Islamic attire are common.

379 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:52:23am

re: #28 Nimed

"Today we have what they call a progressive income tax."

And by today, Rick Barber means since 1913.

Rick Barber is one angry man. Get him some xanax or something, stat.

That said, it's fair enough to deride the name "progressive". A double-edged word in this context, its literal meaning is that the more you make, the higher a fraction of that you pay in taxes. The intended connotation is that such escalating rates constitute progress, and that therefore more is better.

Principled conservative opposition to the federal income tax? Virtually nonexistent. The American Enterprise Institute argues that the FIT should apply, at least in token quantities, to almost all workers. They object to the current trend to entirely exempt from the FIT a large fraction, and in their view, eventually a majority, of the population. The thinking is that if a voting majority pays no taxes, that majority will see no reason not to raise rates on the minority who do pay.

The existing and growing income inequality in the U.S. is unfortunate, but redistribution is not a cure. Better schools for all would help. The fraction of citizens who are walled off from serious money by their lack of basic skills would be smaller. A reduced rate of illegal immigration would also help to limit the growth of income inequality in two ways: first, most illegal immigrants do lack basic skills such as command of English. Second, because of the first factor, they can only compete for low-wage jobs, and this competition drives down wages in low-skill occupations.

Finally, laws that break up the pattern in which top executives can make bets of the heads-I-win tails-the-taxpayer-loses variety would be nice. Let bonuses depend on the long term success of the executive's company, for instance.

The trouble with 90% rates is that the rich include many extremely productive individuals. All productive work serves not only the earner but also the customer. The transaction wouldn't occur otherwise. If high earners can't keep any meaningful fraction of their earnings, they won't exert themselves, and our own share of their production never comes into being. Everybody loses when tax rates go too high.

Right now, they're not insanely high. The system works, sort of. The IRS gets a B+. Gentlemen, disband your armies.

380 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:53:02am

BO has awakened our sleeping giant...it was predicted before he was even elected...his next crisis legislative agenda may be the tipping point

381 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:53:21am

re: #374 brookly red

more likely they will vanish at sea without a trace...

no such thing bro

382 dugmartsch  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:53:25am

re: #182 Obdicut

I don't think one overheated incident is enough to call him a scumbag. I've committed 'assault' of equal and more than that, and I don't think I'm a scumbag. A guy was harassing my fiancée just the other night and I pushed him in the chest and kept my hand there.

I shouldn't have done it, and I regret it-- especially since she can more than handle herself, being from Detroit. I upped the ante by making it a male-male confrontation. Luckily we were in a bar where we're well-known and liked so the other guy was the one getting thrown out.

I'm not paying you to legislate on my behalf. I don't care what you do. If this had been a Republican my reaction would have been exactly the same, I guarantee.

383 Semper Fi  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:54:10am

re: #373 Dragon_Lady

Oh yeah it is, they'll bury you in info if you let them.

That's good to hear. Mine included large color photos of lungs, from cadavers I suppose. Impressive.

384 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:54:37am

re: #381 albusteve

no such thing bro

OK so a bit of an oil slick...

385 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:54:57am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Iran dress code bars 71 women from flights


T

Assholes.

386 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:55:17am

re: #379 lostlakehiker

Rick Barber is one angry man. Get him some xanax or something, stat.

That said, it's fair enough to deride the name "progressive". A double-edged word in this context, its literal meaning is that the more you make, the higher a fraction of that you pay in taxes. The intended connotation is that such escalating rates constitute progress, and that therefore more is better.

Principled conservative opposition to the federal income tax? Virtually nonexistent. The American Enterprise Institute argues that the FIT should apply, at least in token quantities, to almost all workers. They object to the current trend to entirely exempt from the FIT a large fraction, and in their view, eventually a majority, of the population. The thinking is that if a voting majority pays no taxes, that majority will see no reason not to raise rates on the minority who do pay.

The existing and growing income inequality in the U.S. is unfortunate, but redistribution is not a cure. Better schools for all would help. The fraction of citizens who are walled off from serious money by their lack of basic skills would be smaller. A reduced rate of illegal immigration would also help to limit the growth of income inequality in two ways: first, most illegal immigrants do lack basic skills such as command of English. Second, because of the first factor, they can only compete for low-wage jobs, and this competition drives down wages in low-skill occupations.

Finally, laws that break up the pattern in which top executives can make bets of the heads-I-win tails-the-taxpayer-loses variety would be nice. Let bonuses depend on the long term success of the executive's company, for instance.

The trouble with 90% rates is that the rich include many extremely productive individuals. All productive work serves not only the earner but also the customer. The transaction wouldn't occur otherwise. If high earners can't keep any meaningful fraction of their earnings, they won't exert themselves, and our own share of their production never comes into being. Everybody loses when tax rates go too high.

Right now, they're not insanely high. The system works, sort of. The IRS gets a B+. Gentlemen, disband your armies.

The one nit I have to pick with this is that those who don't pay federal income tax, are still paying numerous taxes of several other kinds so its not like half of American or a large part of it isn't doing some part to shoulder the cost of our federal government....

387 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:55:28am

re: #379 lostlakehiker

That said, it's fair enough to deride the name "progressive". A double-edged word in this context, its literal meaning is that the more you make, the higher a fraction of that you pay in taxes. The intended connotation is that such escalating rates constitute progress, and that therefore more is better.

Oh for fuck's sake, no it's not. It's mathematically progressive. That's what it means.

This isn't hard.

388 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:55:55am

re: #382 dugmartsch

I'm not paying you to legislate on my behalf. I don't care what you do. If this had been a Republican my reaction would have been exactly the same, I guarantee.

What does that have to do with what I said?

389 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:56:22am

OT -

For those dog and cat lovers... we we having a thunderstorm a while ago, and the big bad one-eyed husky Wolfie (who hates thunder) jump on my bed and snuggled up with the 3 month old kitten Tiki... and the results... a picture...

Image: wolfie_tiki.jpg

390 dugmartsch  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:56:54am

re: #388 Obdicut

What does that have to do with what I said?

Just that I'd cut you slack but I wouldn't do the same for a congressman.

391 dr. luba  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:57:01am

re: #116 brookly red

dump him? more likely get the 2 of them a cable show...

kinda like a modern candid camera.

I'm thinking more along the lines of "Jackass."

392 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:57:35am

re: #389 Walter L. Newton

OT -

For those dog and cat lovers... we we having a thunderstorm a while ago, and the big bad one-eyed husky Wolfie (who hates thunder) jump on my bed and snuggled up with the 3 month old kitten Tiki... and the results... a picture...

Image: wolfie_tiki.jpg

Awww.

393 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:57:38am

re: #386 jamesfirecat

The one nit I have to pick with this is that those who don't pay federal income tax, are still paying numerous taxes of several other kinds so its not like half of American or a large part of it isn't doing some part to shoulder the cost of our federal government...

well no all of the other kinds are local not federal (I think, but there are so damn many kinds of taxes I can't be 100% sure)

394 Semper Fi  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:57:51am

I'm off to continue chores. Thanks.

395 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:58:17am

re: #386 jamesfirecat

The one nit I have to pick with this is that those who don't pay federal income tax, are still paying numerous taxes of several other kinds so its not like half of American or a large part of it isn't doing some part to shoulder the cost of our federal government...

Indeed. And let's not forget that most of this "overtaxed" income of wealthy persons is derived from the sweat of "undertaxed" employees.

396 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:58:30am

re: #393 brookly red

well no all of the other kinds are local not federal (I think, but there are so damn many kinds of taxes I can't be 100% sure)

If nothing else, if they have a job they pay into social security and that's a federal "tax", isn't it?

397 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:58:38am

re: #389 Walter L. Newton
Hates thunder but looks happy to be hidin out
with a friend!
For cute!!

398 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:58:52am

re: #390 dugmartsch

Just that I'd cut you slack but I wouldn't do the same for a congressman.

Why does it make him a 'scumbag' to have grabbed this kid by the arm, and not me? What does him being a congressperson have to do with that?

399 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:58:56am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I did several shots of tequila back in college, and ended up having a serious discussion about whether Druids were a threat to the United States, so really, hard to say. It probably depends a lot on body weight, and general drug tolerance, and how fast you drink.

NEVER trust a moonkin. Sure, they look all cute and cuddly, and the way they dance is hilarious, but the second you turn your back they'll moonfire spam your ass.

400 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:59:06am

My, my. Class envy.

401 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:59:17am

re: #383 Semper Fi

That's good to hear. Mine included large color photos of lungs, from cadavers I suppose. Impressive.

When I was in High School they had one of those mechanical lungs that they hook up to cigarettes, ugh! It didn't stop me from smoking, I was young and immortal (and stupid!), nothing was going to happen to MY lungs! To this day I regret smoking for as long as I did, I didn't quite until I was 24, but thankfully I wasn't truly addicted and it was relatively easy to quit. I feel really bad for those out there that are fighting hard to quit, I hear its easier to get off of Heroin than is is to quit smoking cigarettes.

402 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:59:21am

re: #393 brookly red

well no all of the other kinds are local not federal (I think, but there are so damn many kinds of taxes I can't be 100% sure)

That would be wrong.

403 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:59:25am

re: #396 jamesfirecat

If nothing else, if they have a job they pay into social security and that's a federal "tax", isn't it?

no, it's a banana...
of course SS is a tax

404 MandyManners  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:59:54am

Gonna' go get me some carrot cake and a tall glass of milk. bbiab

405 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:00:05pm

re: #396 jamesfirecat

If nothing else, if they have a job they pay into social security and that's a federal "tax", isn't it?

well yes I guess but the number of people actually working is not what it used to be.

406 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:00:08pm

re: #386 jamesfirecat

The one nit I have to pick with this is that those who don't pay federal income tax, are still paying numerous taxes of several other kinds so its not like half of American or a large part of it isn't doing some part to shoulder the cost of our federal government...

What several other kinds of tax are federal?

407 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:00:54pm

re: #395 Boogberg

Indeed. And let's not forget that most of this "overtaxed" income of wealthy persons is derived from the sweat of "undertaxed" employees.

I'm not sure how useful it is to put things in those terms. And I'd remind you-- and everyone-- that our tax is on income, not on wealth. So someone can be a wealthy person without a high income, and someone can have a high income without being wealthy.

408 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:01:02pm

re: #400 MandyManners

My, my. Class envy.

Isn't that a good thing? If you're lower/middle class and you envy the upper class, you want to be in the upper class, that means you want to make more money and get more perks, isn't capitalism founded more or less on the idea that people should envy the upper class and work hard to become one of them?

409 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:01:06pm

re: #396 jamesfirecat

If nothing else, if they have a job they pay into social security and that's a federal "tax", isn't it?

"If" they have a job. And that money is not supporting the government, it's a "savings" account for your future... right?

410 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:01:20pm

re: #404 MandyManners

Gonna' go get me some carrot cake and a tall glass of milk. bbiab

I always like to smoke after a slice of carrot cake

411 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:01:57pm

re: #389 Walter L. Newton

OT -

For those dog and cat lovers... we we having a thunderstorm a while ago, and the big bad one-eyed husky Wolfie (who hates thunder) jump on my bed and snuggled up with the 3 month old kitten Tiki... and the results... a picture...

Image: wolfie_tiki.jpg

Thats so cute! Thanks for the cuteness factor 9 break Walter!

412 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:02:03pm

re: #369 oaktree

And if arms are found hidden on one of those shipments it will be due to a plant by Mossad as a false flag operation attempting to discredit the aid operation. Win-Win.

/ (sorta)

If Iran has any wits, they will put nothing but Teddy Bears and healthy food aboard the ship. And civilians dressed as civilians and carrying no weapons at all. We have been fortunate in that our enemies undercut their own lies and tip their hand so regularly.

413 brookly red  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:03:25pm

re: #400 MandyManners

My, my. Class envy.

yes and from someone who wished they had shorted BP at the open... that doesn't sound very proletarian to me...

414 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:04:18pm

This is interesting....
So, who were the young men hassled by Bob Etheridge?

Robert Stacy McCain talks to a conservative operative who explains who or what kind of activists the "students" might be.

The operative, who has been responsible for numerous undercover ("black ops") political projects, compared the two students to a military "hunter-killer team" -- the tandem of a sniper and a spotter. The operative did not want to disclose the tactics and strategy of such projects, but said that we can expect to see more video confrontations during what Mike Flynn of BigGovernment.com predicts will be a "long hot summer." ... It is unlikely that the students involved in the Etheridge incident will claim responsibility, my conservative operative source suggests, because doing so would expose them to reprisals by staffers for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

At first I thought the kids were just being stupid, got too excited and pushed their cameras too close to the congressman's face. Maybe it was a premeditated move. They push their cameras inches from his face knowing that it's human instinct to swat it away. Then they have the second camera there to record the swat and the politician looks like a douche.
If this is the case, I've got hand it to them, it's a fairly clever trick and will probably work most of the time.

415 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:04:26pm

re: #404 MandyManners

Gonna' go get me some carrot cake and a tall glass of milk. bbiab

We still have a huge piece of double chocolate cake left from RWC's birthday you could have!

416 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:04:46pm

re: #409 Walter L. Newton

"If" they have a job. And that money is not supporting the government, it's a "savings" account for your future... right?

I was thoroughly mocked and ridiculed (behind my back) for collecting disability and assuming it was mine to collect and that I deserved it....really some lowdown shit for a post exchange

417 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:05:17pm

re: #411 Dragon_Lady

Thats so cute! Thanks for the cuteness factor 9 break Walter!

I have until Wed afternoon off... cutting stones, making some jewelry for a couple of orders... taking cute pictures... drinking coffee... and chilly... it was 39 degrees (f) this morning... and raining and thunderstorms now... in the 50's.

418 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:06:55pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

I have until Wed afternoon off... cutting stones, making some jewelry for a couple of orders... taking cute pictures... drinking coffee... and chilly... it was 39 degrees (f) this morning... and raining and thunderstorms now... in the 50's.

Ever think of moving to sunny So. Cal? Its a nice sunny 70 degrees out and breezy. Gonna get up to 80 or so today.

419 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:07:05pm

Aarrrgggh!

“Pamela was a firecracker,” says Rick Barber. “She’s intelligent, witty, conservative and tenacious. I’m proud to have her endorsement.”

You keep using that word...

420 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:07:10pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

This is interesting...
So, who were the young men hassled by Bob Etheridge?

At first I thought the kids were just being stupid, got too excited and pushed their cameras too close to the congressman's face. Maybe it was a premeditated move. They push their cameras inches from his face knowing that it's human instinct to swat it away. Then they have the second camera there to record the swat and the politician looks like a douche.
If this is the case, I've got hand it to them, it's a fairly clever trick and will probably work most of the time.

Yes... especially the second trick... where they got the congressman to gab the mans arms, spin him around and lock him against his right side... that camera must have been millimeters from his face to elicit that sort of unusual response.

421 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:07:40pm

re: #409 Walter L. Newton

"If" they have a job. And that money is not supporting the government, it's a "savings" account for your future... right?

What about the taxes we pay to support Medicare, which unlike social security, not all of us are guaranteed to end up qualifying for?

422 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:07:56pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

Hi S.B. Happy Monday! :-)

423 Boogberg  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:08:04pm

re: #400 MandyManners

My, my. Class envy.

Not at all. But if you enjoy the benefits of being wealthy (political influence and such), then you get to pay a higher percentage. I don't have a problem with my boss having more influence in the community BUT, with more power comes more responsibility.

424 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:08:13pm

re: #418 Dragon_Lady

Ever think of moving to sunny So. Cal? Its a nice sunny 70 degrees out and breezy. Gonna get up to 80 or so today.

You must be kidding... that's not my kind of place... not anymore...

425 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:08:52pm

re: #400 MandyManners

My, my. Class envy.

If a liberal is not well off, his ideology is fueled by envy. If he is wealthy, he is out of touch and full of misplaced liberal guilt.

When a conservative is rich, he is, well, a selfish bastard unconcerned with his fellow man. And when he is not, he suffers from peasant mentality.

426 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:09:13pm

re: #421 jamesfirecat

What about the taxes we pay to support Medicare, which unlike social security, not all of us are guaranteed to end up qualifying for?

James... you misspoke and now you are stretching... if you don't work, you don't pay federal anything... state and local yes, federal... no.

427 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:10:09pm

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Iran dress code bars 71 women from flights

I had to read that twice, I thought it said "Iran dress code bars women from FIGHTS.

428 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:11pm

re: #427 Alouette

I had to read that twice, I thought it said "Iran dress code bars women from FIGHTS.

First rule of Flight Club...

429 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:13pm

re: #353 Semper Fi

Good morning all,
Mandy, your post certainly brought back memories. Decades ago, after trying and failing to quit smoking many times, I sent for and received information from the Surgeon Generals Office. It was about the time the 'Warning' notice was included on the side each cigarette package therefor it has indeed been decades. The received info made all the difference and finally, I quit. The info addressed both the physical and psychological addiction you mentioned and sufficiently prepared me for what was to come, withdrawal, mind games, etc. It even said to prepare for that time months after quitting when I would have occasion to smoke, reminding me, I was no longer a smoker. It happened (I was drunk), the info kicked-in, I never lit up again.
Good luck to anyone trying to kick the smoking addiction. There are ways.

I'm currently into my 2nd month of no smoking, and boy-oh-boy it's an uphill climb. 25 years of a habit is not easy to just drop. There has been one faulter in that time, but I'm doing my best to stick to my guns. It's also nice to know that I'll be saving $200 or so a month by not spending money on something that will inevitably kill me.

Had I known then back in the day what a pain in the ass quitting is, I would never have started... but I was young, foolish, and willing to submit to peer pressure. So, time to pay the devil his due, as it were.

430 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:20pm

re: #386 jamesfirecat

The one nit I have to pick with this is that those who don't pay federal income tax, are still paying numerous taxes of several other kinds so its not like half of American or a large part of it isn't doing some part to shoulder the cost of our federal government...

But if the tax is invisible then the taxpayer won't have any incentive to think about the implications for his own finances of voting for higher taxes. Sales taxes, excise taxes, social security taxes, and a VAT should it be enacted, all fall into that category.

But the cruelest regressive tax is the state lottery. Almost everyone loses. The poor buy most of the tickets. And the winners' lives are ravaged by the unexpected wealth. Clinical depression and all sorts of other woes are commonplace among "winners" of the big prizes. Those who win little prizes are just sucked into "trying" harder, that is to say, squandering more of their already scant cash.

431 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:38pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

James... you misspoke and now you are stretching... if you don't work, you don't pay federal anything... state and local yes, federal... no.

That's not true, Walter, at all.

First of all, plenty of people who don't work a lick pay capital gains tax on their unearned income-- substantially below what they'd pay on it if they did gain it through actual work.

Second of all, unemployment insurance payouts are definitely taxed as income, as many people learn to their discomfit.

432 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:46pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

Tobacco taxes - there's a federal component in addition to state and local taxes.

Motor fuels tax - a federal component in addition to state and local taxes.

Oh, and the estate tax when it comes back next year (and which most states base their own estate/inheritance tax systems).

Those are the two off the top of my head.

Of them - the motor fuel taxes are paid by pretty much anyone who drives a vehicle or is incorporated into the transit/freight charges or mass transit, etc.

433 Donna Ballard  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:11:51pm

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

You must be kidding... that's not my kind of place... not anymore...

Yeah, I was just joking. I wish we could get outta here but my parents need me close by and its really hard for RWC to get a job elsewhere that will pay enough to survive on. I need dirt under my feet! I'm a country girl at heart and I'm getting claustrophobic here in the city, all that concrete! Yuk!

434 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:12:15pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

Aarrrgggh!

You keep using that word...

So you don't object to the characterization of Geller as intelligent and witty?

435 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:12:50pm

re: #431 Obdicut

And that also includes cap gains from 401ks and pensions and the like. It's designed to encourage savings and investment.

436 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:13:04pm

re: #429 MrSilverDragon

I'm currently into my 2nd month of no smoking, and boy-oh-boy it's an uphill climb. 25 years of a habit is not easy to just drop. There has been one faulter in that time, but I'm doing my best to stick to my guns. It's also nice to know that I'll be saving $200 or so a month by not spending money on something that will inevitably kill me.

Had I known then back in the day what a pain in the ass quitting is, I would never have started... but I was young, foolish, and willing to submit to peer pressure. So, time to pay the devil his due, as it were.

After paying $8+ a pack for the past couple of years I get kind of pissy when people whine about crap like tanning taxes...

437 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:14:15pm

re: #431 Obdicut

That's not true, Walter, at all.

First of all, plenty of people who don't work a lick pay capital gains tax on their unearned income-- substantially below what they'd pay on it if they did gain it through actual work.

Second of all, unemployment insurance payouts are definitely taxed as income, as many people learn to their discomfit.

Also, federal gas tax.

438 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:14:34pm

re: #426 Walter L. Newton

James... you misspoke and now you are stretching... if you don't work, you don't pay federal anything... state and local yes, federal... no.

Okay, I will give you that if you don't work you don't pay federal taxes. But on the other hand at the moment about 10% (well lets say 10 to 15% or so to include those people who don't work but are no longer "unemployed" since they aren't actively looking for work) of the people don't have jobs and so they don't pay federal taxes.

However in 379 when lostlakehiker said "They object to the current trend to entirely exempt from the FIT a large fraction, and in their view, eventually a majority, of the population. The thinking is that if a voting majority pays no taxes, that majority will see no reason not to raise rates on the minority who do pay." To me that sounded like lostlakerhiker was suggesting that if you don't pay the FIT you don't pay any sort of taxes to the federal government and that is demonstrably false that while say, 47% may not pay income tax, I bet most of those 47% do still contribute money to the federal government.

That was the point I was trying (and evidently failing) to make...

439 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:15:53pm

re: #436 JasonA

After paying $8+ a pack for the past couple of years I get kind of pissy when people whine about crap like tanning taxes...

Tanning beds are just another brand of coffin nail. Skin coffin rather than lung coffin, but that's details.

440 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:16:29pm

re: #439 lostlakehiker

Unless you have psoriasis, and then they are a godsend.

441 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:16:52pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

But if the tax is invisible then the taxpayer won't have any incentive to think about the implications for his own finances of voting for higher taxes. Sales taxes, excise taxes, social security taxes, and a VAT should it be enacted, all fall into that category.

But the cruelest regressive tax is the state lottery. Almost everyone loses. The poor buy most of the tickets. And the winners' lives are ravaged by the unexpected wealth. Clinical depression and all sorts of other woes are commonplace among "winners" of the big prizes. Those who win little prizes are just sucked into "trying" harder, that is to say, squandering more of their already scant cash.

God sir I tip my hat to you, because you have brought up a valid argument/point that I will admit I had not considered....

(The first part at least, the second about lotteries I could more or less guess for myself)

442 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:17:07pm

re: #389 Walter L. Newton

OT -

For those dog and cat lovers... we we having a thunderstorm a while ago, and the big bad one-eyed husky Wolfie (who hates thunder) jump on my bed and snuggled up with the 3 month old kitten Tiki... and the results... a picture...

Image: wolfie_tiki.jpg

My dobes bark at thunder and fireworks. My wife made the mistake of turning it into a game. Now when a storms coming they'll come get you with their stubby/tails wagging waiting for you to run around the house yelling "BOOM" while they bounce up and down barking. It was cute and funny the first couple of dozen times but now I'm over it.

443 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:17:08pm

re: #431 Obdicut

re: #432 lawhawk

You're right... forgot about those aspects of federal taxes.

444 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:17:09pm

re: #435 lawhawk

And that also includes cap gains from 401ks and pensions and the like. It's designed to encourage savings and investment.

It's designed to give a large tax break to unearned income. Most of the people gaining that benefit are not ordinary workers with 401ks.

[Link: www.cbpp.org...]

Because taxable stock holdings are both smaller and less common for the bottom 60 percent of households, this group owns only 9 percent of all taxable stock. The top 10 percent owns 70 percent of all taxable stock. The top one percent owns 29 percent of all taxable stock.

445 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:18:21pm

re: #425 Nimed

If a liberal is not well off, his ideology is fueled by envy. If he is wealthy, he is out of touch and full of misplaced liberal guilt.

When a conservative is rich, he is, well, a selfish bastard unconcerned with his fellow man. And when he is not, he suffers from peasant mentality.

Do tell. Gee, I guess that would make any politically conscious person a fuckup. How clever.

446 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:18:39pm

re: #438 jamesfirecat

Okay, I will give you that if you don't work you don't pay federal taxes. But on the other hand at the moment about 10% (well lets say 10 to 15% or so to include those people who don't work but are no longer "unemployed" since they aren't actively looking for work) of the people don't have jobs and so they don't pay federal taxes.

However in 379 when lostlakehiker said "They object to the current trend to entirely exempt from the FIT a large fraction, and in their view, eventually a majority, of the population. The thinking is that if a voting majority pays no taxes, that majority will see no reason not to raise rates on the minority who do pay." To me that sounded like lostlakerhiker was suggesting that if you don't pay the FIT you don't pay any sort of taxes to the federal government and that is demonstrably false that while say, 47% may not pay income tax, I bet most of those 47% do still contribute money to the federal government.

That was the point I was trying (and evidently failing) to make...

The majority will see no reason ... if the voter doesn't see the tax, it doesn't affect his thinking even if he does end up paying it. I have no idea what the tax is on imported cheese, for instance. How would I be in any position to complain about it?

The FIT is the one place that the taxpayer gets to feel useful, and put upon, package deal. You know you're paying and you know how much.

447 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:20:11pm

re: #425 Nimed

If a liberal is not well off, his ideology is fueled by envy. If he is wealthy, he is out of touch and full of misplaced liberal guilt.

When a conservative is rich, he is, well, a selfish bastard unconcerned with his fellow man. And when he is not, he suffers from peasant mentality.

I think that pretty much covers it all.

448 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:20:25pm

re: #439 lostlakehiker

Tanning beds are just another brand of coffin nail. Skin coffin rather than lung coffin, but that's details.

if you eat enough pulled pork, you will die....fact
I'm sick of this shit...raising taxes on supposedly harmful products

449 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:21:09pm

re: #446 lostlakehiker

The FIT is the one place that the taxpayer gets to feel useful, and put upon, package deal. You know you're paying and you know how much.

How so? Why not the multitude of other taxes that one pays to the federal, state, and local governments? If I pay a school tax, why don't I feel useful and put upon? I certainly know I'm paying and know how much.

Your claim the federal income tax is the only place this occurs is staggeringly inaccurate.

Can you explain why you're saying something that's so wrong?

450 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:21:30pm

re: #446 lostlakehiker

The majority will see no reason ... if the voter doesn't see the tax, it doesn't affect his thinking even if he does end up paying it. I have no idea what the tax is on imported cheese, for instance. How would I be in any position to complain about it?

The FIT is the one place that the taxpayer gets to feel useful, and put upon, package deal. You know you're paying and you know how much.

See my 441 (I mean that in a a non confrontational way)

451 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:22:45pm

re: #449 Obdicut

How so? Why not the multitude of other taxes that one pays to the federal, state, and local governments? If I pay a school tax, why don't I feel useful and put upon? I certainly know I'm paying and know how much.

Your claim the federal income tax is the only place this occurs is staggeringly inaccurate.

Can you explain why you're saying something that's so wrong?

I think (key words "I" and "THINK" when you pay the FIT you do it once a year and in one big lump sum that you need to take time to calculate out so it grabs your attention so you pay attention to it while the others are just small nibbles at your pay check every month so you're inclined to ignore them to focus on how much you actually did make....

452 Four More Tears  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:22:50pm

re: #448 albusteve

if you eat enough pulled pork, you will die...fact
I'm sick of this shit...raising taxes on supposedly harmful products

God, I love pulled pork...

453 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:23:10pm

re: #422 Dragon_Lady

Hi S.B. Happy Monday! :-)

Oh yeah, sez who?
/
Howdy.

454 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:23:28pm

re: #429 MrSilverDragon

I'm currently into my 2nd month of no smoking, and boy-oh-boy it's an uphill climb. 25 years of a habit is not easy to just drop. There has been one faulter in that time, but I'm doing my best to stick to my guns. It's also nice to know that I'll be saving $200 or so a month by not spending money on something that will inevitably kill me.

Had I known then back in the day what a pain in the ass quitting is, I would never have started... but I was young, foolish, and willing to submit to peer pressure. So, time to pay the devil his due, as it were.

I thought I was a casual smoker, just 2-3 ciggies a week, for pleasure only. But I decided I would just let my last pack of tobacco run out and not replace it "for the time being".

Even decided not to fetch a pack of tobacco when I was shopping today.

Got home this evening, had a serious nic fit and went out and emptied the bin and rolled up the butts I found there.

Must not ever, ever do that again, ever.

455 calochortus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:23:28pm

Assuming FIT is a flat income tax, I don't see one passing any time soon. I won't bore you with the details, but based on what otherwise reasonably intelligent people have said to me, they'd rather have deductions-even if it means they pay more taxes-than pay the same rate as everyone else. I suspect it is related to the deep need to feel "special" many people have. Being a homeowner, having children, unearned income, whatever. It seems to make a lot of people happy to have their life choices enshrined in the tax code.

456 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:23:58pm

re: #443 Walter L. Newton

re: #432 lawhawk

You're right... forgot about those aspects of federal taxes.

A lot of people forget a lot about taxation. It's one of the problems in addressing any sort of taxation reform, is that many people think, as you did, that federal income tax is the be-all and end-all of taxation.

And many people forget that unearned income is privileged above earned income, and/or have a false impression of who benefits from that.

This is why I favor a much simpler taxation system.

457 albusteve  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:24:39pm

re: #452 JasonA

God, I love pulled pork...

got a new joint right around the corner that is very good...it's killing my budget!

458 RogueOne  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:25:03pm

re: #454 ralphieboy

HA! Not very smooth and refreshing?

459 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:25:04pm

re: #434 Nimed

So you don't object to the characterization of Geller as intelligent and witty?

Not nearly as much as I object the characterization of her being "conservative".

460 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:27:18pm

re: #458 RogueOne

HA! Not very smooth and refreshing?


No, but I got a good buzz off it. That is one thing about not smoking every day, nicotine really hits you when it kicks in...

461 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:27:22pm

re: #430 lostlakehiker

But if the tax is invisible then the taxpayer won't have any incentive to think about the implications for his own finances of voting for higher taxes. Sales taxes, excise taxes, social security taxes, and a VAT should it be enacted, all fall into that category.

But the cruelest regressive tax is the state lottery. Almost everyone loses. The poor buy most of the tickets. And the winners' lives are ravaged by the unexpected wealth. Clinical depression and all sorts of other woes are commonplace among "winners" of the big prizes. Those who win little prizes are just sucked into "trying" harder, that is to say, squandering more of their already scant cash.

How is a sales tax or VAT invisible if it is levied and collected from the purchaser at the point of sale of the goods or invoiced to the recipient of the service as a separate item on the bill?

462 Nimed  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:27:30pm

re: #445 Spare O'Lake

Do tell. Gee, I guess that would make any politically conscious person a fuckup. How clever.

That's my point. Resorting to pop psychology to justify somebody's political positions is a pointless exercise -- even if one is right.

463 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:27:55pm

re: #451 jamesfirecat

I think (key words "I" and "THINK" when you pay the FIT you do it once a year and in one big lump sum that you need to take time to calculate out so it grabs your attention so you pay attention to it while the others are just small nibbles at your pay check every month so you're inclined to ignore them to focus on how much you actually did make...

Most people have their income tax withheld, James, so this doesn't make much sense.

464 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:28:05pm

re: #461 Spare O'Lake

How is a sales tax or VAT invisible if it is levied and collected from the purchaser at the point of sale of the goods or invoiced to the recipient of the service as a separate item on the bill?

(Half sarcasm) Because the American people are stupid and only care about the bottom line rather than why it costs as much as it does...

465 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:29:33pm

re: #461 Spare O'Lake

How is a sales tax or VAT invisible if it is levied and collected from the purchaser at the point of sale of the goods or invoiced to the recipient of the service as a separate item on the bill?


At least in Europe the VAT is built into the price. It is listed in fine print on the tag somewhere, or on your cash register receipt, but I had to get used to the concept of adding the sales tax to the purchase sum when I went back home & went shopping.

466 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:30:26pm

re: #461 Spare O'Lake

How is a sales tax or VAT invisible if it is levied and collected from the purchaser at the point of sale of the goods or invoiced to the recipient of the service as a separate item on the bill?

It's not invisible, per se, but it isn't nearly so easy to see how much you spend on an annual basis on VATs as it is with FIT. A little bit here and a little bit there seems less onerous to many than a lump sum every year. (Never mind that most people pay via witholding, so it's still a little here and a little there.)

467 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:31:46pm

re: #461 Spare O'Lake

How is a sales tax or VAT invisible if it is levied and collected from the purchaser at the point of sale of the goods or invoiced to the recipient of the service as a separate item on the bill?

Hi Spare! A sales tax isn't really invisible, as it shows up on the bottom of your receipt. The VAT, on the other hand, is arguably at least partly invisible as it is applied at each level of the production process.

So, for example, you buy a pencil. The VAT on the production of the eraser at the end of your pencil can be raised, and it could be considered "invisible" as it doesn't show up anywhere (well, other than as an overall increase in the cost of your pencil).

That's why many folks are uneasy about VAT, as it's very tempting for politicians to increase that portion of the VAT not clearly visible to the public.

468 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:34:02pm

re: #462 Nimed

That's my point. Resorting to pop psychology to justify somebody's political positions is a pointless exercise -- even if one is right.

Oh OK, you were being sarcastic...very good, then. Updinged.

469 Bagua  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:34:46pm

re: #190 Joo-LiZ

OT:

All I can say is. WHAT. THE. F**K!

The State Department is trying to deport Mosab Hassan Yousef -- author of Son of Hamas

There is something seriously wrong with the officials who are trying to deport him.

Disgusting!

Good lord, this is outrageous. Talk about justice being blind. Mosab would be slaughtered if he was sent back to that vipers dem and is a hero for standing up to the murderous Hamas thugs.

470 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:52:59pm

re: #467 subsailor68

Hi Spare! A sales tax isn't really invisible, as it shows up on the bottom of your receipt. The VAT, on the other hand, is arguably at least partly invisible as it is applied at each level of the production process.

So, for example, you buy a pencil. The VAT on the production of the eraser at the end of your pencil can be raised, and it could be considered "invisible" as it doesn't show up anywhere (well, other than as an overall increase in the cost of your pencil).

That's why many folks are uneasy about VAT, as it's very tempting for politicians to increase that portion of the VAT not clearly visible to the public.

As you may be, we have a VAT in Canada called the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) or GST (Goods and Services Tax). The tax is designed ultimately to tax the value added to an item only once, and this is accomplished by giving input credits to the producers which they can deduct from their remittances.
However in the case of consumption for personal use there are no input credits, and the full tax is paid on the full price. It is an extremely visible tax which, in the Provice of Ontario, will be 13% as of July 1, 2010, and it is shown as a separate item on the sale receipt.
In fact, the VAT is extremely visible - it's right in the consumer's face.
Even at the gas pump the amount of the VAT per litre is posted right there for all to see.
In order to ameliorate the regressive nature of the VAT, the government provides partial GST rebates, on an income-based sliding scale, to all income tax return filers.

471 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:56:14pm

re: #470 Spare O'Lake

As you may be, we have a VAT in Canada called the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) or GST (Goods and Services Tax). The tax is designed ultimately to tax the value added to an item only once, and this is accomplished by giving input credits to the producers which they can deduct from their remittances.
However in the case of consumption for personal use there are no input credits, and the full tax is paid on the full price. It is an extremely visible tax which, in the Provice of Ontario, will be 13% as of July 1, 2010, and it is shown as a separate item on the sale receipt.
In fact, the VAT is extremely visible - it's right in the consumer's face.
Even at the gas pump the amount of the VAT per litre is posted right there for all to see.
In order to ameliorate the regressive nature of the VAT, the government provides partial GST rebates, on an income-based sliding scale, to all income tax return filers.

Hmm...need to think about how your tax is structured. If the HST (or GST) is designed to tax only once, that may be a bit different that what's being proposed in certain quarters here. I need to read up a bit on your system. Thanks!

472 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 12:57:37pm

BTW, the best vacation I ever had was in the Georgian Bays. If I ever get rich I'd have a cabin on one of the islands in a New York minute!

Wait, that doesn't sound right. How about a Toronto minute?

;-)

473 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 1:07:27pm

re: #464 jamesfirecat

(Half sarcasm) Because the American people consumers everywhere are stupid and only care about the bottom line rather than why it costs as much as it does...

FIFY

474 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 1:27:17pm

re: #455 calochortus

Assuming FIT is a flat income tax, I don't see one passing any time soon. I won't bore you with the details, but based on what otherwise reasonably intelligent people have said to me, they'd rather have deductions-even if it means they pay more taxes-than pay the same rate as everyone else. I suspect it is related to the deep need to feel "special" many people have. Being a homeowner, having children, unearned income, whatever. It seems to make a lot of people happy to have their life choices enshrined in the tax code.

By FIT I mean Federal Income Tax. I do not favor a "flat tax". Taxes ought not fall on money that isn't really available for discretionary spending. Survival rations level of spending on food, clothing, shelter, and medical care ought not to be taxed. Hence, deductions. Oh, and news brief: children, too, need food, clothing, and shelter. An income of $X split five ways is not as easily shared with the IRS as $X split between me, myself, and I would be.

475 brownbagj  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 1:29:33pm

*Sigh*

Grew up in Alabama. Sometimes teh stupid still burns.

476 calochortus  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 1:44:41pm

re: #474 lostlakehiker

Sorry to have misunderstood you. I'll catch on to all the abbreviations eventually.

477 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 2:54:52pm

I don't think Mr. Barber and his fellow travelers, I use that phrase most deliberately, care about America all that much.

What they really want is a war so they can kill people without consequences. For them 'Truth, Freedom and the American Way' are just excuses for to indulge in psychopathic behavior.

478 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 8:47:28pm

re: #191 Shiplord Kirel

This is the guy you want to make friends with if he comes to work at your place. Say nice things about his lunchbox, give him an extra Snickers or something, or maybe a Mounds bar since you don't want to imply that he's nuts. That way, you might be the one he overlooks when he pulls out his gun and starts shooting.

Actually, you want to get your boss to fire him. To his face, you want to be an invisible schmuck, part of the woodwork. Blank, dull, uninteresting. Wooden.

479 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 14, 2010 8:57:18pm

re: #449 Obdicut

How so? Why not the multitude of other taxes that one pays to the federal, state, and local governments? If I pay a school tax, why don't I feel useful and put upon? I certainly know I'm paying and know how much.

Your claim the federal income tax is the only place this occurs is staggeringly inaccurate.

Can you explain why you're saying something that's so wrong?

Yes, it's wrong. If you own property, you pay property tax. But I was talking about people at the lower end of the income scale, the ones who may well not pay any FIT. When I was in that category, I was a renter not an owner. I figure it's the same for most of us as we make our way through life; when our incomes are low, we're renters.

Where else would this demographic see a sizable sum of their own money going off to the government, all at one time and not literally in nickels and dimes? Anyhow, we were talking federal tax law and federal taxes. Very few of us ever have to write a check or fill out a tax return in connection with social security. It's set up to be pretty painless. What's more, especially for citizens in the lower half when it comes to income, the social security tax can reasonably be seen as a pension fund contribution. These citizens will break even in the long run, with normal luck and assuming the rules don't change too much. Federal spending and FIT law really have no effect on their social security taxes or benefits.

480 truthin  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 9:41:21am

Right on, Barber.

Love the commercial - I think he hit it pretty dead on. (OH! wait...don't call the Secret Service because I used the term 'dead' in this comment! I don't want anyone to get hurt!)

I have to laugh when I hear many of you discussing this as sedition. You have no idea what sedition even is, you morons. You should go read what happened during the sedition act of 1918 - it was people just you that went out and tarred and feathered preachers because they had opposing opinions, beat up your neighbors, and used children to spy on their parents.

Oh yeah, that's fine. But let someone talk about taking the country back from the REAL life progressive socialist (you can say that he's not -buy the truth paints an entirely different picture), and all the sudden the 1st amendment becomes not so important anymore.

Maybe you all should consider who's side you're really on. The America that stands for freedom and prosperity for ALL people - unmatched by any other nation on earth - or the failing socialist government of Europe .....or the oppressive Communist regimes of China, Iran, Cuba where you simply do what you're told or be killed or locked up. I know which side I'm on.

481 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:04:30am

re: #480 truthin

Your brand of hatred and bigotry is not welcome at LGF.

482 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 10:08:37am

truthout

483 McCain Dem  Tue, Jun 15, 2010 1:16:18pm

lk ths d. G Rck Brbr!


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