Texas GOP Platform: Make Gay Marriage a Felony

Politics • Views: 4,393

The 2010 Texas Republican Party platform is in the news, as people notice that it’s an unvarnished far right document advocating atavistic policies across the board; creationism, climate change denial, historical revisionism aimed at erasing the separation of church and state, etc., ad nauseam.

But some of the worst vitriol in the platform, as usual, is aimed at gay people: TX GOP platform: Re-criminalize sodomy, make gay marriage a felony.

We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin), custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.

The Texas GOP platform may be farther out than most, but not by much. I’ve seen dozens of GOP platform statements that advocate teaching creationism and criminalizing gay behavior. I think the Texas GOP might be the first to hit on the brilliant idea of making gay marriage a felony, though.

Previously at LGF:
Oklahoma GOP Platform Requires Teaching Creationism
Why I Left the Right, Exhibit P for Pawlenty (and Minnesota GOP platform)

(Hat tip: Locker.)

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252 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:04:09pm

Maybe if these people read more than one damn book in their lives, they would actually have half a fucking brain.

2 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:08:17pm

“and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases.” Oh dear God its GRID all over again, isn’t it?

3 Summer Seale  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:09:07pm

Some people were saying what again about the GOP not being in the throes of religious conservative insanity?

4 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:09:23pm

Ooo Locker! Woot Woot!!

5 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:10:04pm

re: #3 Summer

Some people were saying what again about the GOP not being in the throes of religious conservative insanity?

But what about NJ?
///

6 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:10:48pm
Free Speech for the Clergy – We urge change of the Internal Revenue Code to allow a religious organization to address issues without fear of losing its tax-exempt status. We call for repeal of requirements that religious organizations send government any personal information about their contributors.

In other words, free publicity for wingnut candidates every Sunday. No Equal Time rule.

7 pharmmajor  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:12:39pm

Again, I must quote Yahtzee and proclaim to the Texas GOP, “Go Team Retard!”

8 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:12:49pm

I hope people read the whole thing and see just how radical it is. Box Turtle Bulletin has a rundown and some back story about homophobia in the Texas GOP:

The Texas Republican Party has a long proud history of blatant homophobia. In 1998, Log Cabin, the gay Republican group, was denied booth space at the state convention. At the 2000 Republican National Convention when gay congressman Jim Kolbe took to the podium to speak about foreign policy, the delegates from Texas, in a deliberate show of disrespect, began “praying” instead of listening.

9 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:13:51pm

Hmmm seems to me if we make homosexuality a crime, a lot of the GOP may get locked up! Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

LOLLLLL

10 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:14:01pm

Locker is having problems accessing LGF with Firefox, but I can’t duplicate them; Firefox works fine for me, both Mac and Windows. It’s pretty clear from his description that Javascript is being disabled somehow, but he says NoScript (the usual culprit) isn’t at fault. Can anyone suggest something else for him to check?

11 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:14:16pm

BTW, to any GOPers out there, its continued crap like this instead of coming up with actual ideas to address energy resources, international trade and relations and the economy that I cut my ties with the GOP.

Try worrying about some real issues and quit fucking with people trying to live their lives with people they care about.

Sanctimonious pricks

12 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:14:56pm

re: #10 Charles

Nope. I’m using FF3.5.9 with no problems.

13 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:15:05pm

We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values

So, no penalties if you assault gay people or commit a hate crime— but let’s put you in prison if you’re gay.

Got it.

14 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:15:46pm

Just cuz I have to… I’d like to point out that not all Texans are nuts and hateful. Our wonderful new Houston mayor is openly lesbian and has been an elected member of City Council and the city Comptroller sine the mid-90s.

15 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:15:48pm
For example, he found legal contracts from late medieval France that referred to the term “affrèrement,” roughly translated as brotherment. Similar contracts existed elsewhere in Mediterranean Europe, Tulchin said.

In the contract, the “brothers” pledged to live together sharing “un pain, un vin, et une bourse,” (that’s French for one bread, one wine and one purse). The “one purse” referred to the idea that all of the couple’s goods became joint property. Like marriage contracts, the “brotherments” had to be sworn before a notary and witnesses, Tulchin explained.

The same type of legal contract of the time also could provide the foundation for a variety of non-nuclear households, including arrangements in which two or more biological brothers inherited the family home from their parents and would continue to live together, Tulchin said.

But non-relatives also used the contracts. In cases that involved single, unrelated men, Tulchin argues, these contracts provide “considerable evidence that the affrèrés were using affrèrements to formalize same-sex loving relationships.”

The ins-and-outs of the medieval relationships are tricky at best to figure out.

“I suspect that some of these relationships were sexual, while others may not have been,” Tulchin said. “It is impossible to prove either way and probably also somewhat irrelevant to understanding their way of thinking. They loved each other, and the community accepted that.”

16 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:16:20pm

re: #10 Charles

Locker is having problems accessing LGF with Firefox, but I can’t duplicate them; Firefox works fine for me, both Mac and Windows. It’s pretty clear from his description that Javascript is being disabled somehow, but he says NoScript (the usual culprit) isn’t at fault. Can anyone suggest something else for him to check?

Tell him to go on Facebook and I can help him troubleshoot.

17 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:17:57pm

re: #10 Charles

Maybe an Adblock problem?

18 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:18:03pm

re: #10 Charles

Locker is having problems accessing LGF with Firefox, but I can’t duplicate them; Firefox works fine for me, both Mac and Windows. It’s pretty clear from his description that Javascript is being disabled somehow, but he says NoScript (the usual culprit) isn’t at fault. Can anyone suggest something else for him to check?

Oh that sucks. I’m using FF now with no trouble.

I called my hubby and he said to check the TOOLS (drop down menu) and turn down/off some of the security options to allow the ads to run.

19 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:18:14pm

So if I understand this correctly, under the new GOP rules, a gay business owner can refuse to serve a customer or hire an employee based on race, but cannot share his work or retirement benfits based on his own sexual preference? Did I get this right?

20 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:18:20pm

Bass-ackward, bigoted and sanctimonious. Just the kind of party I want to be associated with.

21 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:18:31pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

We’re closer than the average man and wife

That’s why our matching bracelets say Turk & J.D

I’ll stick by you for the rest of my life…

You’re the only man whose ever been inside of me!

Hey I just took out his appendix!

There’s no need to clarify!

Oh no?

Just let it grow more and more each day…. It’s like I married my best friend…

But in a totally manly way!

LETS GO!

It’s guy love, don’t compromise, the feeling of some other guy, holding up your heart into the sky!

22 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:19:42pm

Page after page of Nutella (no offense to delicious snack foods):

Health Care and Nutritional Supplements – We deplore any efforts to mandate that vitamins and other natural
supplements be on a prescription–only basis, and we oppose any efforts to remove vitamins and other nutritional
supplements from public sale. We support the rights of all adults to their choice of nutritional products. We strongly favor
legislation recognizing legitimate alternative health care choices.
Unprocessed foods – We support the availability of natural, unprocessed foods, which should be encouraged, and that
the right to access raw milk directly from the farmer be protected.
AIDS / HIV – We recognize that the preventable diseases of AIDS and HIV infection represent a threat to human health.
We view with compassion all people infected with HIV. We call for appropriate levels of research to find a cure for the
disease and ask that the government give full disclosure of the causes. However, because AIDS represents such a
severe threat to both the health and economic well–being of our citizens, we insist that the epidemic be de–politicized and
that as a society, we take all appropriate steps to protect our citizens from this epidemic. All people, no matter what
disease they may contract, are worthy of deep respect as humans; however, behavior has personal and social
consequences. We call upon the United States Public Health Service and all states to declare HIV a “dangerous, yet
preventable, infectious, communicable disease.” It should be legally reported in the same manner as any communicable
disease. We oppose the needle exchange and bleach kit programs. We urge the return to the requirement of blood testing
in order to obtain a marriage license with the previous reporting responsibilities to prevent the spread of dangerous,
infectious, and communicable diseases.
Americans with Disabilities Act – We support amendment of the Americans with Disabilities Act to exclude from its
definition those persons with infectious diseases, substance addiction, learning disabilities, behavior disorders,
homosexual practices and mental stress, thereby reducing abuse of the Act.
[P - 12]
Immunizations - All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are administered to
themselves or their minor children without penalty for refusing a vaccine. We oppose any effort by any authority to
mandate such vaccines or any medical database that would contain personal records of citizens without their consent.

…ranging from the bizarre to downright evil.

23 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:20:54pm

re: #13 iceweasel

We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values

So, no penalties if you assault gay people or commit a hate crime— but let’s put you in prison if you’re gay.

Got it.

Here’s the PDF of their platform. Chock full of extra juicy wingnuttiness.

[Link: static.texastribune.org…]

24 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:21:18pm

I want to ask a serious question of those here who still vote or intend to vote Republican in the next election. It is not an attempt to troll - I really want to know. Most of the conservatives here are sane, sensible, intelligent people. What holds you to this party?

25 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:22:53pm

Damn, that’s the ticket, plant cameras in bedrooms to make sure nobody is having fun by experimenting with positions other than missionary (oops, did I just mention the religious right?). To bugger up a Monty Python quote - and oral and anal are right out.

26 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:24:10pm

re: #10 Charles

Locker is having problems accessing LGF with Firefox, but I can’t duplicate them; Firefox works fine for me, both Mac and Windows. It’s pretty clear from his description that Javascript is being disabled somehow, but he says NoScript (the usual culprit) isn’t at fault. Can anyone suggest something else for him to check?

Try disabling his add-ons one by one. If that doesn’t reveal a culprit, then start digging deep into the FF settings. If he’s behind a firewall on a corporate network, it could be due to policies/permissions that are in place.

27 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:25:04pm
We view with compassion all people infected with HIV. We call for appropriate levels of research to find a cure for the disease and ask that the government give full disclosure of the causes. However, because AIDS represents such a severe threat to both the health and economic well–being of our citizens, we insist that the epidemic be de–politicized and that as a society, we take all appropriate steps to protect our citizens from this epidemic.

Notice the reference to some kind of “conspiracy” regarding the causes of AIDS. Clearly, the gov’t has been lying to us./

Also, why the hell is it ALWAYS the people who are politicizing an issue who blame other people for politicizing it. It’s as certain as the sun rising tomorrow, the asshole that tries to make a physical fact a political football will complain that other people have “politicized” the issue.

The people are disgusting.

28 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:25:50pm

re: #27 Fozzie Bear

PIMF… *these* people

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:27:57pm

Why the fear of gay folks?

Just doesn’t bother me, as long as they aren’t contagious. I’ve met so many and am still not gay, so I don’t think they are.

30 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:28:18pm

OT/ Thanks for the HT on twitter Charles. FRC is seriously batshit crazy.

31 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:28:46pm

Voltaire

The real vice of a civilized republic is in the Turkish fable of the dragon with many heads and the dragon with many tails. The many heads hurt each other, and the many tails obey a single head which wants to devour everything

32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:29:19pm

re: #21 jamesfirecat

Let’s go!

33 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:30:47pm

re: #27 Fozzie Bear

Notice the reference to some kind of “conspiracy” regarding the causes of AIDS. Clearly, the gov’t has been lying to us./

Also, why the hell is it ALWAYS the people who are politicizing an issue who blame other people for politicizing it. It’s as certain as the sun rising tomorrow, the asshole that tries to make a physical fact a political football will complain that other people have “politicized” the issue.

The people are disgusting.

They want to make AIDS a homo disease caused by an unsavoury life style.

If you want to win a debate, change the focus to your opponent by claiming he/she/it is using dishonest tactics. So, every time you use a dishonest tactic, claim your opponent did it first.

34 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:32:12pm

re: #24 allegro

I want to ask a serious question of those here who still vote or intend to vote Republican in the next election. It is not an attempt to troll - I really want to know. Most of the conservatives here are sane, sensible, intelligent people. What holds you to this party?

I’m so new to LGF that my opinion matters least of all. I’m not an R but will attempt to answer your question, since I tend to vote that way more often than not (2/3 of the time?). I’m at heart a fisc-con, so I tend to assign that 80% of the priority when making voting decisions. Yes, I have opinions on foreign policy, social issues, etc. but tend to prioritize them low for whatever reasons.

Perhaps it’s because I’m the breadwinner so in my family organizational structure I’m a more single-issue hyper-focused voter, and other members can pick up the slack on issues where my eye is off the ball (we don’t always vote the same and I hold out hope that in the grand scheme of things that this works itself out into a more appropriate distribution). Given my stated priority, I would give the D’s ‘F-’ and the R’s an ‘F+’ on fiscal issues over the years….many years….. - both failing grades.

Why I might vote R this year is primarily due to some kind of hope that the backlash has stimulated the GOP into taking more fiscally conservative positions. We’ll see. And in 2 years, if I’m not happy - well….

Just one opinion.

35 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:32:50pm

re: #29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why the fear of gay folks?

Just doesn’t bother me, as long as they aren’t contagious. I’ve met so many and am still not gay, so I don’t think they are.

If being gay isn’t due to genetics, then it must be environmental, so it is contagious and is curable. So sayeth the Right.

36 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:33:38pm

re: #29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why the fear of gay folks?

Just doesn’t bother me, as long as they aren’t contagious. I’ve met so many and am still not gay, so I don’t think they are.

They’re afraid they’re going to come into their homes and make them get rid of the wood panels on the walls, their and their country kitchens.

37 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:33:54pm

“Throughout the world people dare to dream of freedom and opportunity. The Republican Party of Texas unequivocally defends that dream.”

…unless you are gay….

38 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:35:56pm

re: #34 Casual Talker

Given my stated priority, I would give the D’s ‘F-’ and the R’s an ‘F+’ on fiscal issues over the years…many years… - both failing grades.

Why I might vote R this year is primarily due to some kind of hope that the backlash has stimulated the GOP into taking more fiscally conservative positions. We’ll see. And in 2 years, if I’m not happy - well…

I very much appreciate hearing your opinion. I suspect that many share it. What I wonder now is, since both parties score failing grades, with one you perceive to be slightly less failing (scary, ain’t it?), does it move you to take all else into consideration in a way that might mitigate that slightly maybe improved prospect for Republican governing?

39 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:36:19pm

re: #24 allegro

I want to ask a serious question of those here who still vote or intend to vote Republican in the next election. It is not an attempt to troll - I really want to know. Most of the conservatives here are sane, sensible, intelligent people. What holds you to this party?

I don’t vote against my ideals….if no candidate supports them, I don’t vote…so I can’t imagine voting for president next year

40 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:36:38pm

re: #34 Casual Talker

I’m so new to LGF that my opinion matters least of all. I’m not an R but will attempt to answer your question, since I tend to vote that way more often than not (2/3 of the time?). I’m at heart a fisc-con, so I tend to assign that 80% of the priority when making voting decisions. Yes, I have opinions on foreign policy, social issues, etc. but tend to prioritize them low for whatever reasons.

Perhaps it’s because I’m the breadwinner so in my family organizational structure I’m a more single-issue hyper-focused voter, and other members can pick up the slack on issues where my eye is off the ball (we don’t always vote the same and I hold out hope that in the grand scheme of things that this works itself out into a more appropriate distribution). Given my stated priority, I would give the D’s ‘F-’ and the R’s an ‘F+’ on fiscal issues over the years…many years… - both failing grades.

Why I might vote R this year is primarily due to some kind of hope that the backlash has stimulated the GOP into taking more fiscally conservative positions. We’ll see. And in 2 years, if I’m not happy - well…

Just one opinion.


I personally think it’s somewhat wrong headed for anyone to be putting being fiscally conservative as their number one priority in the 2010 election.

Lets worry about getting a fully functioning economy up and running first then worry about how to trim the deficit rather than making them worse by penny pinching….

41 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:36:49pm

The Texas GOP has been taken over by a xenophobic impulse that is absolutely terrified of anything “other.” That pretty much explains their various policy pronouncements.

42 S'latch  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:37:07pm

“Laws banning sodomy: otherwise known as oral and anal sex,” would appear to include more than just homosexual activity.

43 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:37:11pm

re: #37 Sionainn

“Throughout the world people dare to dream of freedom and opportunity. The Republican Party of Texas unequivocally defends that dream.”

…unless you are gay…

…or a woman…

…or a non-Christian

…or a conservative who disagrees with any part of the platform

…or a child who doesn’t wish to be whacked at school

44 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:38:44pm
Federal Reserve System – As long as it exists, We, The Republican Party, call upon the United States Congress to act
immediately to pass a bill to require a full and complete audit of the Federal Reserve System and, that upon completion of
the audit, the results be immediately provided to the United States Congress and to the People of the United States. We
believe Congress should repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

Luap Nor!

And note the phrase, “We, The Republican Party,” not even limited to the Texas R. Party.

45 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:39:10pm

re: #42 Lawrence Schmerel

“Laws banning sodomy: otherwise known as oral and anal sex,” would appear to include more than just homosexual activity.

I wonder if any man has ever been arrested for having anal sex with a woman under those laws…

46 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:39:51pm

re: #40 jamesfirecat

I personally think it’s somewhat wrong headed for anyone to be putting being fiscally conservative as their number one priority in the 2010 election.

Lets worry about getting a fully functioning economy up and running first then worry about how to trim the deficit rather than making them worse by penny pinching…

fiscal conservation has everything to do with the economy, which will never get ‘up and running’ until more private money is invested…they are joined at the hip

47 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:39:54pm

re: #43 allegro

That’s the vision they so want to return to I’m afraid; the mythically halcyon days of our American utopia where everyone “knew their place” and it was a paradise if you were free, white, and 21.

48 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:40:39pm

re: #45 jamesfirecat

I wonder if any man has ever been arrested for having anal sex with a woman under those laws…

If the Texas Repubs have their way that will be the only way left for a het couple who don’t want to get pregnant to enjoy sexual relations.

49 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:40:55pm

re: #38 allegro

I very much appreciate hearing your opinion. I suspect that many share it. What I wonder now is, since both parties score failing grades, with one you perceive to be slightly less failing (scary, ain’t it?), does it move you to take all else into consideration in a way that might mitigate that slightly maybe improved prospect for Republican governing?

You have that right, it is scary… and I haven’t cast my ballot yet so it’s not a given.

To be truthful, I will probably take some other considerations into account, it’s hard not to do that, and I think maybe Jamesfirecat may have said on another thread that we’re not there yet. Of course, on any given ballot, I tend to mix it up a bit anyway, so I’m probably not the pure GOP person to whom you directed your original question.

50 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:41:28pm

re: #37 Sionainn

“Throughout the world people dare to dream of freedom and opportunity. The Republican Party of Texas unequivocally defends that dream.”

…unless you are gay…

Because we know that no one in the GOP is even remotely gay…..

Hey, I wonder what the slogan for the Log Cabin Republicans is?

“We love you even if you hate us!”
“Don’t knock it till you tried it!”

51 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:41:30pm

And I remember listening to gays before the last presidential election who thought Obama would be elected, and gays and lesbians would finally have equal rights….

The republican party will end up splitting in half because of this. There will be no room for a non not-job conservative in American politics within either of our parties.

52 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:41:51pm

re: #43 allegro
re: #43 allegro

…or a woman…

…or a non-Christian

…or a conservative who disagrees with any part of the platform

…or a child who doesn’t wish to be whacked at school


I knew someone would add to the list…I drew a complete blank after I typed “gay.”

53 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:42:23pm

re: #46 albusteve

fiscal conservation has everything to do with the economy, which will never get ‘up and running’ until more private money is invested…they are joined at the hip

How do we encourage more private investment then?

Should we cut taxes?

54 sagehen  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:42:35pm

re: #14 allegro

Just cuz I have to… I’d like to point out that not all Texans are nuts and hateful. Our wonderful new Houston mayor is openly lesbian and has been an elected member of City Council and the city Comptroller sine the mid-90s.

Nobody ever said “all” Texans, just the Republican Texans.

I really really miss Eisenhower. He didn’t like Republican Texans either.

55 ryannon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:43:15pm

re: #45 jamesfirecat

I wonder if any man has ever been arrested for having anal sex with a woman under those laws…

If I’m not mistaken, I remember a case in Georgia along those lines.

56 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:43:19pm

re: #54 sagehen

Yeah, but remember, by today’s standards Ike would be a communist.

57 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:43:34pm

re: #55 ryannon

If I’m not mistaken, I remember a case in Georgia along those lines.

How did they catch him?

58 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:43:40pm

re: #54 sagehen

Nobody ever said “all” Texans, just the Republican Texans.

I knew that. Call me defensive, LOL. I just had to get that in.

59 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:44:26pm
Birthright Citizenship – We call on the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of these United States to clarify Section 1 of the 14th
amendment to limit citizenship by birth to those born to a citizen of the United States: with no exceptions.

OK, they don’t want to repeal it, just “clarify” it. From the top:

PRINCIPLES
We Believe in:
1. Strict adherence to the Declaration of Independence and U.S. and Texas Constitutions.

Lying bastards.

60 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:44:41pm

re: #40 jamesfirecat

I personally think it’s somewhat wrong headed for anyone to be putting being fiscally conservative as their number one priority in the 2010 election.

Lets worry about getting a fully functioning economy up and running first then worry about how to trim the deficit rather than making them worse by penny pinching…

To some (including myself), fiscal conservatism is a catch-word for a kind of economic philosophy. You may think it’s a wrong-headed one, but hopefully you can still appreciate that it’s one that places economic priorities in the forefront. Can we at least agree on that in order to forward discussion?

61 S'latch  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:45:38pm

re: #45 jamesfirecat

“It should be noted, however, that there is no longstanding history in this country of laws directed at homosexual conduct as a distinct matter. Early American sodomy laws were not directed at homosexuals as such but instead sought to prohibit nonprocreative sexual activity more generally, whether between men and women or men and men. Moreover, early sodomy laws seem not to have been enforced against consenting adults acting in private. Instead, sodomy prosecutions often involved predatory acts against those who could not or did not consent: relations between men and minor girls or boys, between adults involving force, between adults implicating disparity in status, or between men and animals.”

Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003) (in which the United States Supreme Court struck down the sodomy law in Texas).

62 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:46:03pm

re: #53 jamesfirecat

How do we encourage more private investment then?

Should we cut taxes?

not sure…private business has money to spend but the cloudy climate of taxation and regulation has not been defined too well yet, health care costs are part of it…so investors are afraid to invest, banks are sitting on their money and job growth stagnates….like everybody is saying “you go first” but nobody does….it will eventually right itself, but when?

63 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:48:55pm

re: #60 Casual Talker

To some (including myself), fiscal conservatism is a catch-word for a kind of economic philosophy. You may think it’s a wrong-headed one, but hopefully you can still appreciate that it’s one that places economic priorities in the forefront.

I don’t know of anyone on either side who suggests that fiscal irresponsibility is a good thing. I see the major divide over what the money is spent for. The right seems to prefer corporate related expenditures and military. The left looks toward public good, education, and the safety net. If there’s going to be any over-spending, I would prefer to see the latter.

64 What, me worry?  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:49:50pm

Ok, I’m not kidding now.

About 15-20 years ago, when gays started moving into our neighborhood (which is probably 25-30% gay now), the property values started going up. This was before the market surge, in like the early to mid 90s. Old (1930-50), small (1400-1600 sq ft) homes, pretty much dilapidated. They bought these homes cheap, around $40-50K, fixed them up, planted lots of foliage and sold them for about $80-90K about double what they paid. Of course by 2001, they could ask a hellofa lot more.

Anyway, no one cared they were gay. They were too happy that their homes were now worth a lot more than other areas.

65 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:50:18pm

re: #42 Lawrence Schmerel

“Laws banning sodomy: otherwise known as oral and anal sex,” would appear to include more than just homosexual activity.

Hell, its a Friday night for some of us…

66 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:50:20pm
How will we pay for the fly?
[Link: www.drudgereport.com…]

bloggless on June 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM

Kind of reminds me of those poor children from Kenya.

dirtseller on June 22, 2010 at 4:45 PM

67 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:52:04pm

re: #60 Casual Talker

I’m a gay Jew. But, if I have to chose between two non-crazy candidates, I’d usually vote for the FisCon one, even if he/she doesn’t endorse marriage rights for same-sex couples.

The practical problem is, fiscon candidates are few and far between. Even John McCain said he wanted to pay the mortgages of deadbeat homedebtors who were underwater on their mortgages:

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

IMHO, one of the most horrific wastes of money is the government propping up house prices and giving handouts and huge tax deals to deadbeat mortgage holders. Both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of this. People borrowing more they can afford was 1/2 of the reason our economy was in trouble. (The other 1/2 was banks creating preposterous mortgage products to sell to the greedy/gullible)

Libertarians are no better. You’d think that a Libertarian would have “no opinion” on same-sex marriage. Why is the government sticking its nose into marriage at all? But you find most of them using weasel words to oppose it.

68 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:52:09pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

Classy.

69 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:52:48pm

re: #47 Irenicum

That’s the vision they so want to return to I’m afraid; the mythically halcyon days of our American utopia where everyone “knew their place” and it was a paradise if you were free, white, and 21.

You left out “male, and straight”.

70 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:53:05pm

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Classy.

Exactly what I was thinking.

71 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:53:42pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

That must have been you again, in disguise, right?

72 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:15pm

re: #69 iceweasel

You left out “male, and straight”.

Probably “landowner,” too…

73 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:18pm

re: #69 iceweasel

You’re right. My bad.

74 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:23pm

re: #63 allegro

I don’t know of anyone on either side who suggests that fiscal irresponsibility is a good thing. I see the major divide over what the money is spent for. The right seems to prefer corporate related expenditures and military. The left looks toward public good, education, and the safety net. If there’s going to be any over-spending, I would prefer to see the latter.

Perhaps I misunderstood James’s point, but have given him ample room to clarify should he wish.

I guess I may also have an unorthodox view of fiscal conservatism as regards the GOP - as may be also indicative in the F+ grade I gave them in this regard.

A 10% cut in spending across-the-board (including defense) would please me much. Heck, it may even generate some of the free market/competitive spirit in the defense industry, right? See why I don’t vote party-line?

75 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:32pm

re: #72 JasonA

ha. That too.

76 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:35pm

re: #64 marjoriemoon

Ok, I’m not kidding now.

About 15-20 years ago, when gays started moving into our neighborhood (which is probably 25-30% gay now), the property values started going up. This was before the market surge, in like the early to mid 90s. Old (1930-50), small (1400-1600 sq ft) homes, pretty much dilapidated. They bought these homes cheap, around $40-50K, fixed them up, planted lots of foliage and sold them for about $80-90K about double what they paid. Of course by 2001, they could ask a hellofa lot more.

Anyway, no one cared they were gay. They were too happy that their homes were now worth a lot more than other areas.

Reminds me of an episode of Will & Grace

“Gays don’t go home!”

77 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:50pm

Strangely enough, one of these ideas is rather liberal.

In addition to this, the Texas GOP seeks to end the state’s lottery, which provides millions in funding to public education;


but into the bargain, the lottery lures the poor into squandering a considerable fraction of their scant cash reserves. The ad campaigns plugging state lotteries do their best to instill in their target audience beliefs about money and chance that, if accepted, will hurt the poor across the board. There’s a vicious circle going, and payday loans and state lottery tickets are both part of the problem.

What can be the use of funding public education by means of deliberately mis-educating the adult poor? It creates perverse incentives: if the state somehow did a proper job of educating the youth, state lottery ticket sales would collapse. The heavy buyers would walk away, and you’d be left with an occasional ticket purchase by people who, on a lark, decide to piss away a few dollars. The lottery ticket sales would fall far short of covering the fixed costs of operating the lottery, and the whole system would grind to a halt. Now that would be a good thing, but it wouldn’t be seen as good by a school system that depends in part on revenue from lottery ticket sales.

78 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:54:53pm

re: #71 Charles

That must have been you again, in disguise, right?

Bwahahahaha!

79 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:55:02pm

re: #72 JasonA

Probably “landowner,” too…

and slave holder, don’t forget personal wealth

80 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:55:22pm

re: #60 Casual Talker

To some (including myself), fiscal conservatism is a catch-word for a kind of economic philosophy. You may think it’s a wrong-headed one, but hopefully you can still appreciate that it’s one that places economic priorities in the forefront. Can we at least agree on that in order to forward discussion?

Fair enough, I’m just saying that putting the deficit ahead of job creation in a recession/depression/near recession is more or less Neo-Hooverism isn’t it?

81 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:55:56pm

re: #74 Casual Talker

I guess I may also have an unorthodox view of fiscal conservatism as regards the GOP - as may be also indicative in the F+ grade I gave them in this regard.

A 10% cut in spending across-the-board (including defense) would please me much. Heck, it may even generate some of the free market/competitive spirit in the defense industry, right? See why I don’t vote party-line?

As I pointed out, most of the conservatives here are sane, sensible, and intelligent. That’s why I felt safe in asking the question.

82 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:56:15pm

re: #79 albusteve

and slave holder, don’t forget personal wealth

Well, you didn’t have to own slaves to vote. Had to own land, though. And have a penis.

83 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:56:18pm

re: #71 Charles

That must have been you again, in disguise, right?

Of course it was an easy guess that they’d go for the African joke. I can almost guarantee you that’s you’ll find the same joke all over stormfront today.

84 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:57:17pm

re: #82 JasonA

Well, you didn’t have to own slaves to vote. Had to own land, though. And have a penis.

I missed a post in there I guess

85 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:57:33pm

re: #74 Casual Talker

Perhaps I misunderstood James’s point, but have given him ample room to clarify should he wish.

I guess I may also have an unorthodox view of fiscal conservatism as regards the GOP - as may be also indicative in the F+ grade I gave them in this regard.

A 10% cut in spending across-the-board (including defense) would please me much. Heck, it may even generate some of the free market/competitive spirit in the defense industry, right? See why I don’t vote party-line?

I think a 10% cut across the board is the lazy mans way of thinking personally.

We need to look at what projects work well (provide the most effective support, stretch the dollars the farthest) and then safeguard or increase them while trimming the budget of the ones that don’t work or finding ways to make them more effective.

86 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:58:04pm

Afternoon, fellow lizards. What’s the good word?

87 Batman  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:58:20pm

That platform is egregiously lacking in mention of special privileges for gay people to breath our air and speak our language. I hate when one group gets special privileges over others, like marriage and adoption. All we’re asking is for gays to not have these special privileges over us straight folk. Is that so heinous?

88 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:58:37pm

Ooo, a lovely, cooling rain. It’s dropped the temperature to a chilly 97 degrees. :/

89 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:58:44pm

re: #82 JasonA

Well, you didn’t have to own slaves to vote. Had to own land, though. And have a penis.

Your own, or would any penis do?

90 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 1:59:23pm

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Afternoon, fellow lizards. What’s the good word?

poontang
/Animal Mother mode

91 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:00:14pm

re: #89 b_sharp

Your own, or would any penis do?

Silicon doesn’t count, you end up messing with the whole gay sex and sodomy thing again

92 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:00:18pm

re: #89 b_sharp

Your own, or would any penis do?

Your own. Too many problems with ACORN handing out dildos, or so I heard…

93 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:00:19pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

poontang
/Animal Mother mode

I heard that.

94 ryannon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:00:33pm

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Afternoon, fellow lizards. What’s the good word?

Sodomy!

95 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:00:41pm

re: #80 jamesfirecat

Fair enough, I’m just saying that putting the deficit ahead of job creation in a recession/depression/near recession is more or less Neo-Hooverism isn’t it?

Perhaps I need to find a different label (free-market-classic-liberal?) in order to better relate my views to you, or perhaps you are under the impression that Hoover was a classic fiscal conservative. I’m just not sure how to continue, although I would like to. Are you under the impression that fiscal conservatism is a single issue? (deficit reduction)

96 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:01:03pm

re: #85 jamesfirecat

I think a 10% cut across the board is the lazy mans way of thinking personally.

We need to look at what projects work well (provide the most effective support, stretch the dollars the farthest) and then safeguard or increase them while trimming the budget of the ones that don’t work or finding ways to make them more effective.

good, start by taking a long, hard look at the Dept of Ed…I ‘d like to see some nonpartisan justification for that money pit…

97 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:01:11pm

re: #74 Casual Talker

I guess I may also have an unorthodox view of fiscal conservatism as regards the GOP - as may be also indicative in the F+ grade I gave them in this regard.

An F+? You’re too kind. GOP politicians have been urinating on the concept of fiscal responsibility and trying to tell me its raining for years. Democrats are worse but at least they aren’t worse while preaching fiscal conservatism at the same time.

98 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:01:30pm

re: #94 ryannon

Sodomy!

Followed by rum and the lash?

99 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:01:49pm

Small quibble, the platform doesn’t call for making same-sex marriage a felony, it says any civil official issuing a marriage license or performing a ceremony for a same-sex couple should be a felony. (Page 7: Marriage Licenses)

I’m not sure how they square that with all their talk of liberty and freedom.

100 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:02:22pm

re: #94 ryannon

Sodomy!

ARSE POWER!

101 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:02:27pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

poontang
/Animal Mother mode

If you are going to get your balls blown off for a word, is that it?

102 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:02:41pm

re: #63 allegro

I don’t know of anyone on either side who suggests that fiscal irresponsibility is a good thing. I see the major divide over what the money is spent for. The right seems to prefer corporate related expenditures and military. The left looks toward public good, education, and the safety net. If there’s going to be any over-spending, I would prefer to see the latter.

Only if there are no military dangers to this nation can military spending be seen as divorced from the public good.

The right sees some safety net spending as verging over into hammock spending. France is now proposing to move the official retirement age up from 60 to 62. Since, under a Democrat administration, there is no talk of lowering the age of social security retirement from 66 or 67 down to 60, today’s USA Democrat party is radical right wing by French standards. So it’d be fair enough to say that France is pretty far Left.

California’s system of allowing retirement at 50-something with full benefits, from many public jobs, is definitely hammock spending. Until such time as we have robots to do our work, and robots to program them and manufacture them, and robots to oversee the other robots, somebody is going to have to work if the work of daily life is to get done. Without a corvee, the only way to attract workers is to pay them, and if you’re going to pay them just as much to not work, the attraction fades.

Hence, the need for some amount of fiscal discipline.

103 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #98 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Followed by rum and the lash?

Change that to “preceded by” and you might actually have yourself a good time.

104 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:02:56pm

re: #85 jamesfirecat

I think a 10% cut across the board is the lazy mans way of thinking personally.

We need to look at what projects work well (provide the most effective support, stretch the dollars the farthest) and then safeguard or increase them while trimming the budget of the ones that don’t work or finding ways to make them more effective.

On this we agree, and I may have given a lazy answer - and you caught me. I would like to see all budgets be justified. Defense, Education, Commerce, Labor, etc. I’d like to see them all justify ROI on an annual basis (at least). Everyone else has to do this, right?

105 ryannon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:03:29pm

re: #98 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Followed by rum and the lash?

Some prefer run and the lash before.

106 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:04:27pm

re: #97 ArchangelMichael

An F+? You’re too kind. GOP politicians have been urinating on the concept of fiscal responsibility and trying to tell me its raining for years. Democrats are worse but at least they aren’t worse while preaching fiscal conservatism at the same time.

I keep seeing this meme that the Democrats are worse, yet the most fiscally responsible administrations of the past decades have been Democtratic. I think putting Obama in this category of money-spenders is uncalled for considering the circumstances he walked into with 2 wars to pay for and an economic melt-down to ameliorate. I’m not agreeing with everything that’s been done, but to say that Dems are more irresponsible that Reps is a myth, IMO.

107 ryannon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:04:44pm

re: #105 ryannon

PIMF: rum

108 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:05:13pm

re: #105 ryannon

Some prefer run and the lash before.

Should you be talking about runs on a thread about sodomy?

Just asking.

109 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:05:36pm

Speaking of Sodomy, I present one of Peter Jackson’s pre LOTR presentations

Youtube Video
110 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:06:17pm

re: #97 ArchangelMichael

An F+? You’re too kind. GOP politicians have been urinating on the concept of fiscal responsibility and trying to tell me its raining for years. Democrats are worse but at least they aren’t worse while preaching fiscal conservatism at the same time.

I guess I’m missing the praise that you have found.

111 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:06:56pm

re: #106 allegro

I keep seeing this meme that the Democrats are worse, yet the most fiscally responsible administrations of the past decades have been Democtratic. I think putting Obama in this category of money-spenders is uncalled for considering the circumstances he walked into with 2 wars to pay for and an economic melt-down to ameliorate. I’m not agreeing with everything that’s been done, but to say that Dems are more irresponsible that Reps is a myth, IMO.

tripling the debt is rookie, joyful nonsense….it’s gonna hurt for a very long time….the Stimulus could have been chunked out and fed into the system piecemeal….much more effective and easier to use and track

112 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:07:57pm

re: #102 lostlakehiker

IMHO (and as someone who paid the maximum Social Security tax since 1985), raising the retirement age by a year or two is the fairest possible way to shore up the Social Security budget.

However, it’s one of the least popular remedies when the pubic is polled.

[Link: www.pollingreport.com…]

Other proposals to uncap the social security tax (without uncapping the benefit) or to means test it seem grossly unfair. I ran the numbers on a means test proposal for SS and Medicare. You would get into the situation where a frugal person who scrimped and saved to have, say, $2MM at retirement may be no better off than a person who had saved absolutely nothing.

113 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:08:05pm

re: #102 lostlakehiker

Only if there are no military dangers to this nation can military spending be seen as divorced from the public good.

I certainly have no opposition to necessary military spending in the public defense. I have serious opposition to military waste and pointless wars.

114 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:08:15pm

Repost, since it doesn’t seem to be appearing in the comment thread.

Strangely enough, one of these ideas in the GOP platform is rather liberal.

In addition to this, the Texas GOP seeks to end the state’s lottery, which provides millions in funding to public education;


but into the bargain, the lottery lures the poor into squandering a considerable fraction of their scant cash reserves. The ad campaigns plugging state lotteries do their best to instill in their target audience beliefs about money and chance that, if accepted, will hurt the poor across the board. There’s a vicious circle going, and payday loans and state lottery tickets are both part of the problem.

What can be the use of funding public education by means of deliberately mis-educating the adult poor? It creates perverse incentives: if the state somehow did a proper job of educating the youth, state lottery ticket sales would collapse. The heavy buyers would walk away, and you’d be left with an occasional ticket purchase by people who, on a lark, decide to piss away a few dollars. The lottery ticket sales would fall far short of covering the fixed costs of operating the lottery, and the whole system would grind to a halt. Now that would be a good thing, but it wouldn’t be seen as good by a school system that depends in part on revenue from lottery ticket sales.

115 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:08:28pm

re: #110 Casual Talker

I guess I’m missing the praise that you have found.

IMO an “F+” means 58-59% good. I’d say that is vastly overestimating their adherence to fiscal responsibility.

116 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:08:46pm

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Disestablishmentarianism.

117 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:09:36pm

re: #113 allegro

I certainly have no opposition to necessary military spending in the public defense. I have serious opposition to military waste and pointless wars.

pointless war…Afghanistan is rapidly becoming pointless

118 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:10:10pm

re: #116 Irenicum

Disestablishmentarianism.

Supercallifragilisticexpialidocious.

119 MinisterO  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:10:27pm

re: #111 albusteve

tripling the debt is rookie, joyful nonsense…it’s gonna hurt for a very long time…the Stimulus could have been chunked out and fed into the system piecemeal…much more effective and easier to use and track

Nobody has tripled the debt since Reagan did it.

120 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:12:26pm

re: #115 ArchangelMichael

IMO an “F+” means 58-59% good. I’d say that is vastly overestimating their adherence to fiscal responsibility.

You’re faulting me with giving the GOP an F+?

Where were you when I brought home my report card to my parents? I wish I had that rationalization then! :)

121 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:12:43pm

re: #118 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well that’s just atrocious!

122 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:13:40pm

re: #119 MinisterO

Nobody has tripled the debt since Reagan did it.

I should have said tripled within a decade…as for Reagan, that’s old history and I really don’t care, it has nothing to do with today

123 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:14:02pm

Anything thread worthy on the McChrystal debacle? I’d be very curious to see what Michael Yon has to say about this.

124 darthstar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:14:47pm

Hey everyone…five minute break between four hours of consecutive meetings and some one-on-one counseling of a colleague…I’m fuckin’ beat. Okay…back to the grindstone.

Let’s hope that the oil companies told they can start drilling again by the Louisiana Judge elect first to ensure that they’ve got decent seals on their BOPs and that they didn’t trust Halliburton to do a rush job with their cementing. Fingers crossed.

125 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:14:48pm
[Updated at 4:41 p.m.] Gen. Stanley McChrystal has submitted his resignation, Time magazine’s Joe Klein told CNN, citing an unnamed source. CNN is working to confirm Klein’s information.
126 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:14:59pm

re: #117 albusteve

pointless war…Afghanistan is rapidly becoming pointless

I disagree. If either of those wars are “pointless” then it’s Iraq. (Although I don’t think that’s pointless either. It is just of lesser importance.)

p.s. Hi everyone! Just got back from jury duty! Woo!!

127 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:16:00pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

Oh my. That is something of a surprise.

128 Irenicum  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:16:04pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

Wow. Though I’m not really surprised. I wonder how long before he gets a Fix News gig?

129 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:16:55pm

re: #67 reuven


Libertarians are no better. You’d think that a Libertarian would have “no opinion” on same-sex marriage. Why is the government sticking its nose into marriage at all? But you find most of them using weasel words to oppose it.

Libertarians are entitled to hold personal opinions just like everyone else. If the feds were to get out of the marriage business, like most libertarians propose, then their personal opinions don’t really matter do they?

130 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:16:59pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

[Updated at 4:41 p.m.] Gen. Stanley McChrystal has submitted his resignation, Time magazine’s Joe Klein told CNN, citing an unnamed source. CNN is working to confirm Klein’s information.

Wow. Anyone suprised?

131 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:17:00pm

re: #128 Irenicum

I wonder how long before he gets a Fix News gig?

Yesterday//

132 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:17:02pm

re: #42 Lawrence Schmerel

“Laws banning sodomy: otherwise known as oral and anal sex,” would appear to include more than just homosexual activity.

From the GOP Platform:

Texas Sodomy Statutes – We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy.
[Link: static.texastribune.org…]

This is a pile of crap IMO, since the SCOTUS struck down the Texas sodomy laws in 2003 in the case of Lawrence v. Texas.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

133 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:17:17pm

re: #127 allegro

Oh my. That is something of a surprise.

I thought it would be a sudden retirement.

134 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:18:07pm

Our current administration is anything but fiscall conservative I wonder why, if we’re broke, do we have plans to pay peoples rent/mortgage for 18 months (for example)

[Link: www.news-press.com…]

This is a silly waste of money. If we let this home foreclose, then the price will drop, and someone else may be able to afford it w/o government assistance.

And, to add insult to injury, the recipients of this “free rent” won’t have to pay income tax on the value of this benefit.

135 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:18:24pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

I knew the good Gen. was to meet with the President tomorrow for a finger wagging. Really didn’t expect this.

136 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:19:14pm

And yet the GOP will pick up seats in the mid-terms, why? Because the vast majority of the voters only see the thirty second or less news blurbs on the networks and have no idea that any of this is going on behind the scenes.

Once upon a time I would be one of those supporting the GOP, certainly not these days, my party was first taken over by a coalition of single issue voting “social conservatives.” Now it is being taken over again by…well, I don’t know what to call them, they seem to have a thousand different issues, all of them anti-government.

I’m becoming more and more tempted to simply call them anarchists since that seems to be what they are proposing. :(

137 ryannon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:19:29pm

The “Eat Da Poo Poo” video is really going viral on YouTube, with lots of mixes/remixes.

138 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:19:41pm

re: #135 allegro

I knew the good Gen. was to meet with the President tomorrow for a finger wagging. Really didn’t expect this.

I thought you were being sarcastic. What choice did he have? He opened his mouth and stepped in it.

139 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:00pm

re: #135 allegro

I knew the good Gen. was to meet with the President tomorrow for a finger wagging. Really didn’t expect this.

What’s the endgame?

140 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:01pm

re: #126 Soap_Man

I disagree. If either of those wars are “pointless” then it’s Iraq. (Although I don’t think that’s pointless either. It is just of lesser importance.)

p.s. Hi everyone! Just got back from jury duty! Woo!!

Saddam had to go, period…and Iraq became a magnet for AQ and others who we iced by the boatload….perfect

141 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:03pm

re: #82 JasonA

Well, you didn’t have to own slaves to vote. Had to own land, though. And have a penis.

Did you vote with your penis?

Three glory Holes of Freedom!!!!!

142 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:22pm

re: #126 Soap_Man

I disagree. If either of those wars are “pointless” then it’s Iraq. (Although I don’t think that’s pointless either. It is just of lesser importance.)

p.s. Hi everyone! Just got back from jury duty! Woo!!

Thank you for your service. Jury duty is rarely fun, and it doesn’t pay very well. Now at least it’s not a thankless job.

:)

143 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:37pm

re: #136 ausador

This election, like the last 2, is an economy election. Somehow neither party seems to be able to understand wtf is going on out here.

144 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:20:52pm

re: #130 Casual Talker

Wow. Anyone suprised?

not at all…make a new plan Stan

145 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:21:47pm

re: #134 reuven

Our current administration is anything but fiscall conservative I wonder why, if we’re broke, do we have plans to pay peoples rent/mortgage for 18 months (for example)

[Link: www.news-press.com…]

This is a silly waste of money. If we let this home foreclose, then the price will drop, and someone else may be able to afford it w/o government assistance.

And, to add insult to injury, the recipients of this “free rent” won’t have to pay income tax on the value of this benefit.

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the OP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

146 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:22:08pm

re: #138 RogueOne

I thought you were being sarcastic. What choice did he have? He opened his mouth and stepped in it.

He is going to make some excellent money as a military analyst now.

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:22:24pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Typo

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the GOP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

148 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:22:29pm

re: #143 RogueOne

This election, like the last 2, is an economy election. Somehow neither party seems to be able to understand wtf is going on out here.

the donks don’t even have a 2010 budget on the table…hello?

149 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:22:48pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the OP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

What is an OP type?

150 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:22:54pm

re: #112 reuven

IMHO (and as someone who paid the maximum Social Security tax since 1985), raising the retirement age by a year or two is the fairest possible way to shore up the Social Security budget.

However, it’s one of the least popular remedies when the pubic is polled.

[Link: www.pollingreport.com…]

Other proposals to uncap the social security tax (without uncapping the benefit) or to means test it seem grossly unfair. I ran the numbers on a means test proposal for SS and Medicare. You would get into the situation where a frugal person who scrimped and saved to have, say, $2MM at retirement may be no better off than a person who had saved absolutely nothing.

Agreed that would be grossly unfair. On the other hand, raising social security age limits still further does run into a fairness issue. At some point, old age cuts into a man’s ability to do manual labor. The poor find themselves cut off from the serious gainful employment of their midlife years, while those who have generally higher-paying white-collar work are more often capable of carrying on through 65 to 70 or so.

If the idea is to get people who can work to stay with it, then SS retirement age rules maybe ought to reflect the limits of the possible, rather than simply pick a number. Maybe say that if you’re disabled with respect to the work you’ve mostly done over the years, and you’re over 65, you count as having reached retirement age for purposes of full social security benefits.

151 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:23:19pm

Social conservatives have always had some unfounded fear of the gay lifestyle. And they have push against gays for ever. Just look at “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” that’s a national policy which effects all branches of the military and the same mentality has filter through both the public and the private arena.

152 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:23:36pm

re: #136 ausador

And yet the GOP will pick up seats in the mid-terms, why? Because the vast majority of the voters only see the thirty second or less news blurbs on the networks and have no idea that any of this is going on behind the scenes.

That’s true, but I expect the GOP to pick up seats simply because that’s what happens in midterm elections for the opposition party. Add to it the tremendous amount of anti-incumbent sentiment we always have in a bad economy.

It’s too early to say and I haven’t been tracking it as closely as I should, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOP wins the House.

153 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:23:43pm

re: #134 reuven

Our current administration is anything but fiscall conservative I wonder why, if we’re broke, do we have plans to pay peoples rent/mortgage for 18 months (for example)

[Link: www.news-press.com…]

This is a silly waste of money. If we let this home foreclose, then the price will drop, and someone else may be able to afford it w/o government assistance.

And, to add insult to injury, the recipients of this “free rent” won’t have to pay income tax on the value of this benefit.

Storytime!

My good friend is househunting. He said he and his special lady looked at about 35 to 40 places before finding the right fit. But a few of them they liked, but tried to get the banks to drop the price by about 10k. The banks refused. This is what he said:

“These places were foreclosed on a long time ago. Both had been vacant for almost a year. Both had small water leaks and were starting to get mold problems. Nobody lives there, so nobody cares. But if they sit on these houses for another year because they won’t drop the price a little, these things will get foundation damage. I wouldn’t be surprised if I drove by these lots a few years later to see the buildings torn down due to not fixing a water leak, or selling to someone who will. All so they could save ten grand.”

154 Lidane  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:23:44pm

re: #132 Spare O’Lake

This is a pile of crap IMO, since the SCOTUS struck down the Texas sodomy laws in 2003 in the case of Lawrence v. Texas.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

They don’t care. These assholes want to be able to arrest gay people for having sex in the privacy of their own homes. You know, in the name of individual liberty and freedom. =P

155 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:23:50pm

re: #146 Casual Talker

He is going to make some excellent money as a military analyst now.

You’re probably right, which is sad. He’s did a crappy job as an analyst while he was wearing a uniform, I don’t know why people would pay to hear his analysis now.

156 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:24:00pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Social conservatives have always had some unfounded fear of the gay lifestyle. And they have push against gays for ever. Just look at “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” that’s a national policy which effects all branches of the military and the same mentality has filter through both the public and the private arena.

I see what you did there.

157 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:24:11pm

re: #146 Casual Talker

He is going to make some excellent money as a military analyst now.

I’m sure Fox can’t wait to have him.

158 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:25:02pm

Now as to the current crop of GOP lunatics…

I can only pray that they are so clearly, so very far out there, that the rest of America will wonder how its possible to vote for them.

If we are lucky, we will see the GOP fragment in 2012 and suffer a bitter defeat in the general elections.

If G-d is fixing to judge us sooner rather than later, they will win the presidency in 2012. G-d has a habit of getting very poetic with justice when it comes to those who consistently do evil in His name.

159 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:25:22pm

re: #149 Casual Talker

What is an OP type?


A typo for GOP.

160 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:25:22pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the OP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

because a large portion of those home owners over extended intentionally on the bet their house would rise in value for some easy profit…whoever they are can stay screwed

161 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:25:45pm

re: #140 albusteve

Saddam had to go, period…and Iraq became a magnet for AQ and others who we iced by the boatload…perfect

I think both are important. But if we pulled out of both this afternoon, I see Afghanistan as having more potential to be the future AQ training grounds than Iraq.

162 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:00pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Save their homes? People who put no money down, and in at least half the cases borrowed money against them? People who only paid a teaser rate or a
pick-a-pay rate? How is this “their” home? It’s the bank’s home. Give it back to the bank, let the bank deal with the poor investment it made (I’m no fan of bailouts), and tax the debtor on his forgiven debt, as you or I would be taxed.

Now back to sodomy!

163 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:02pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

Now as to the current crop of GOP lunatics…

I can only pray that they are so clearly, so very far out there, that the rest of America will wonder how its possible to vote for them.

If we are lucky, we will see the GOP fragment in 2012 and suffer a bitter defeat in the general elections.

If G-d is fixing to judge us sooner rather than later, they will win the presidency in 2012. G-d has a habit of getting very poetic with justice when it comes to those who consistently do evil in His name.

What do you think is going to happen in 2010?

164 MinisterO  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:05pm

re: #122 albusteve

I should have said tripled within a decade…as for Reagan, that’s old history and I really don’t care, it has nothing to do with today

Speaking about 2018 as if it had already come to pass while dismissing the real historical records of recent leaders seems a little crazy to me.

165 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:30pm

re: #153 Soap_Man

My brother had just the opposite experience. He bought a house that had been foreclosed and had some water damage due to frozen pipes. He got it for a steal, easily 40k less than its worth, just because it had sat vacant for over a year.

166 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:30pm

re: #124 darthstar

Hey everyone…five minute break between four hours of consecutive meetings and some one-on-one counseling of a colleague…I’m fuckin’ beat. Okay…back to the grindstone.

Let’s hope that the oil companies told they can start drilling again by the Louisiana Judge elect first to ensure that they’ve got decent seals on their BOPs and that they didn’t trustbully Halliburton to do a rush job with their cementing. Fingers crossed.

167 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:26:43pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

A typo for GOP.

Ahh… I thought it might be but wasn’t sure. What was the D/R vote on the original bank bailouts?

168 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:27:04pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

Now as to the current crop of GOP lunatics…

I can only pray that they are so clearly, so very far out there, that the rest of America will wonder how its possible to vote for them.

If we are lucky, we will see the GOP fragment in 2012 and suffer a bitter defeat in the general elections.

If G-d is fixing to judge us sooner rather than later, they will win the presidency in 2012. G-d has a habit of getting very poetic with justice when it comes to those who consistently do evil in His name.

NEWSFLASH: God couldn’t care less who wins the presidency in 2012.

169 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:27:40pm

re: #161 Soap_Man

I think both are important. But if we pulled out of both this afternoon, I see Afghanistan as having more potential to be the future AQ training grounds than Iraq.

of course, but what can we do about it?…we are pulling out in a year, even Biden gloated about it…Afghanistan is effectively lost now…pisses me off to no end

170 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:19pm

re: #164 MinisterO

Speaking about 2018 as if it had already come to pass while dismissing the real historical records of recent leaders seems a little crazy to me.

okay…how can Reagan and GB1 help us now…and do you think they matter to Pelosi and BO?…seriously?

171 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:28pm

re: #169 albusteve

of course, but what can we do about it?…we are pulling out in a year, even Biden gloated about it…Afghanistan is effectively lost now…pisses me off to no end

Are you sure about Biden?

172 Lidane  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:29pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

If we are lucky, we will see the GOP fragment in 2012 and suffer a bitter defeat in the general elections.

Honestly? If I was a religious woman, I’d be praying for that.

I’d love to see the GOP go full retard in their 2012 platform and nominee choice, only to have them lose. Maybe then, the saner elements in the party would get a fucking clue and finally exile the religious right and the socons once and for all.

173 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:32pm

OT: Idiots.

Spirit Airlines Launches New, Offensive Ad Campaign

Image: spirit4-cropped-proto-custom_2.jpg

Spirit Airlines — they of the multi-year labor dispute and the charge for carry-on bags — would like to encourage you to buy tickets to Cancun, Puerto Rico, Atlantic City or Fort Lauderdale with a timely new ad campaign called Best Protection. The tag line? “Check out the oil on our beaches.” And you though Haley Barbour’s tourism promotion campaign was offensive.
174 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:35pm

re: #169 albusteve

Afghanistan is effectively lost now

From what I’m familiar with, Afghanistan was lost long before we ever got there. Ask the Russians.

175 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:35pm

re: #156 JasonA

I see what you did there.

Not everybody… check dings, auto response… amazing. By the way, I haven’t seen an update on you mom… ok?

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:29:45pm

re: #94 ryannon

Sodomy!

Youtube Video
177 Soap_Man  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:30:19pm

re: #165 RogueOne

My brother had just the opposite experience. He bought a house that had been foreclosed and had some water damage due to frozen pipes. He got it for a steal, easily 40k less than its worth, just because it had sat vacant for over a year.

The bank he dealt with is probably much smarter than the ones my friend dealt with.

One of the reasons they wouldn’t drop the price is because the damage was “minor.” That’s true, but won’t be true for long. The point he was trying to make is that they can sell a $200,000 vacant home for $190,000, or they can sit on it while a minor problem turns into a major problem and sell it for $80,000 because the foundation is fucked. They chose the latter.

178 sagehen  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:30:33pm

re: #113 allegro

I certainly have no opposition to necessary military spending in the public defense. I have serious opposition to military waste and pointless wars.

Or pointless weapons — things the Pentagon doesn’t even want, but Congress keeps funding because the parts are made in 22 different districts.

179 allegro  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:30:41pm

re: #172 Lidane

I’d love to see the GOP go full retard in their 2012 platform and nominee choice, only to have them lose. Maybe then, the saner elements in the party would get a fucking clue and finally exile the religious right and the socons once and for all.

From your mouth to the ear of the Goddess. ;)

180 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:31:23pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Not everybody… check dings, auto response… amazing. By the way, I haven’t seen an update on you mom… ok?

Bad news: she has a blod clot. Good news: the doctor doesn’t think it’ll require surgery. Bad news: her pelvis is really badly fractured. And I’m out of good news…

Thanks for asking, though, Walter.

181 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:31:39pm

re: #165 RogueOne

My brother had just the opposite experience. He bought a house that had been foreclosed and had some water damage due to frozen pipes. He got it for a steal, easily 40k less than its worth, just because it had sat vacant for over a year.

my last house went into foreclosure…I told the bank I wanted it enough to picket their office….a few days later they said fuck it, ate 18k and sold it to me for the bargain of the century

182 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:32:21pm

re: #171 Casual Talker

Are you sure about Biden?

I read the quotes a few days ago…it was posted I think

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:32:32pm

re: #163 Casual Talker

What do you think is going to happen in 2010?

It is actually very hard to call. On the one hand, there is great anti-incumbent sentiment. The party in power always loses seats in teh mid-term elections, because even if they were all 100% competent, they don’t have any magic wands.

On the other hand, while there is an economic down turn, there is also a very strong and deep resentment of the market, the banks, big business, big oil and the traditional masters of the GOP.

The guns, gays, commies and Jesus stuff may work in regional elections where the average voter wears a mullet (or a tinfoil hat) and a big belt buckle, but it won’t fly very far with non-white trash.

I think that in some states we will see the crazies get more seats. I fully expect to see some Western or Southern States elect some teabaggers. However, in other regions, the obvious lunacy and racism that has beeneminating from the GOP will bite them in the ass.

All in all it is hard to say.

184 martinsmithy  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:32:57pm

The tea party is quite the libertarian movement.

Except when they can use the coercive power of the state to victimize a group they don’t care for.

Hypocrites, all.

185 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:33:14pm

re: #169 albusteve

of course, but what can we do about it?…we are pulling out in a year, even Biden gloated about it…Afghanistan is effectively lost now…pisses me off to no end

We’ve lost Afghanistan because we haven’t learned from history, we’ve simply repeated it yet again. We should have called Karzai on rigging the election to keep his corrupt ass in power, but instead we (once again) are propping him up because he claims to be at least nominally “on our side.”

I predict that, within 6 months of our final departure, he’ll have made “peace” with the Taliban and joined in thumbing his nose at us. Within a year, he’ll be dead or in exile, the Taliban back in power and our “liberation” nothing more than billions of dollars burned up or in the pockets of Afghani warlords.

186 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:33:31pm

More Sodomy songs:

From Hair:

Youtube Video

And this classic hit, about heterosexual sodomy, from the OutThere Brothers

Youtube Video
187 Four More Tears  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:33:41pm

Gotta run. Later, all.

188 Sionainn  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:16pm

re: #180 JasonA

Bad news: she has a blod clot. Good news: the doctor doesn’t think it’ll require surgery. Bad news: her pelvis is really badly fractured. And I’m out of good news…

Thanks for asking, though, Walter.

Aw, crap, Jason. Sending positive thoughts her (and your) way.

189 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:30pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

It is actually very hard to call. On the one hand, there is great anti-incumbent sentiment. The party in power always loses seats in teh mid-term elections, because even if they were all 100% competent, they don’t have any magic wands.

On the other hand, while there is an economic down turn, there is also a very strong and deep resentment of the market, the banks, big business, big oil and the traditional masters of the GOP.

The guns, gays, commies and Jesus stuff may work in regional elections where the average voter wears a mullet (or a tinfoil hat) and a big belt buckle, but it won’t fly very far with non-white trash.

I think that in some states we will see the crazies get more seats. I fully expect to see some Western or Southern States elect some teabaggers. However, in other regions, the obvious lunacy and racism that has beeneminating from the GOP will bite them in the ass.

All in all it is hard to say.


Around here, the mullets are all in stoner bands :D

I wonder if anyone’s ever tried to market a tri-corner tinfoil hat…

190 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:32pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the OP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

I’m not sure we’re watching the same political process, the GOP has been losing seats since 2006 because they couldn’t keep their wallets in their pants and those GOP members who voted for TARP are having a hard time getting re-elected:

[Link: www.cleveland.com…]


LITTLE ROCK, Arkansas - Some of Congress’ staunchest conservatives voted two years ago to prop up the nation’s banking industry. At the time, they saw a threat to American business. Now the emergency is their own political survival.

In dozens of races around the country, challengers are hammering away at the bank bailout and deriding Republican lawmakers they claim spent billions to rescue Wall Street, not Main Street.

Rep. John Boozman of Arkansas is facing seven opponents for the Republican nomination for Senate. All are talking about his bailout vote, and one brings a blue plastic tarp to his events to symbolize the TARP, or Troubled Asset Relief Program.

Somehow Dems look at all this and come to the conclusion that the real problem is they just aren’t spending enough. Incredible.

191 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:38pm

re: #176 WindUpBird

Too late my friend.

192 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:41pm

re: #174 allegro

From what I’m familiar with, Afghanistan was lost long before we ever got there. Ask the Russians.

that too…I have never been comfortable with this fight and certainly I’m a war monger around here…I honestly try to make sense of all this stuff and Afghanistan does not add up to any sort of victory…BO is gonna pay for this one bigtime…bet me

193 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:34:46pm

re: #172 Lidane

Honestly? If I was a religious woman, I’d be praying for that.

I’d love to see the GOP go full retard in their 2012 platform and nominee choice, only to have them lose. Maybe then, the saner elements in the party would get a fucking clue and finally exile the religious right and the socons once and for all.


They are without doubt going full retard. They get mor retarded each day.

The only question is if the economy holds together. If it basically improves even slowly - like it has been, then the full retard mode will bite them in the ass. If the ecomomy goes badly, the GOP might win even with another retard.

194 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:35:31pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Too late my friend.

Did someone post it already? :D:D

195 Lidane  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:35:47pm

Interestingly enough, I showed all these articles about the Texas GOP platform to my boyfriend, just to get his reaction. He’s not very politically involved at all, but has called himself a Republican in the past.

His first reaction was that I was just reading from some fringe Republican group’s blog or something. When I showed him that it was legitimately the Texas GOP platform, he just shook his head and wondered who put the crazy in the Republican Party’s water supply. He couldn’t believe what he was seeing.

196 MinisterO  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:36:06pm

re: #170 albusteve

okay…how can Reagan and GB1 help us now…and do you think they matter to Pelosi and BO?…seriously?

Reagan and GB1 might remind us that politicians who preach conservative values and fiscal responsibility are no more likely to lead a fiscally responsible government than a card-carrying ACLU member. Does history have no value?

197 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:36:26pm

re: #167 Casual Talker

Ahh… I thought it might be but wasn’t sure. What was the D/R vote on the original bank bailouts?

The sides switched as soon as there was a change in the White House. The repubs were for it under bush and the dems against. As soon as the election rolled around the Repubs voted against releasing the funds while the dems voted for it. They’re both short-sighted and stupid.

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:36:40pm
We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases.

Interesting. Homosexuality has been practiced for eons, and my family has yet to experience the horrible social ills described here.

Hmmm… I guess that means there are no gays in California.
/

199 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:36:52pm

re: #185 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We’ve lost Afghanistan because we haven’t learned from history, we’ve simply repeated it yet again. We should have called Karzai on rigging the election to keep his corrupt ass in power, but instead we (once again) are propping him up because he claims to be at least nominally “on our side.”

I predict that, within 6 months of our final departure, he’ll have made “peace” with the Taliban and joined in thumbing his nose at us. Within a year, he’ll be dead or in exile, the Taliban back in power and our “liberation” nothing more than billions of dollars burned up or in the pockets of Afghani warlords.

yup, all for nothing…good Americans trying to do what’s best, wasted….just wasted for political means…if BO wanted to take it to the Talis he would have put 5 divisions on their ass

200 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:37:03pm

re: #180 JasonA

Bad news: she has a blod clot. Good news: the doctor doesn’t think it’ll require surgery. Bad news: her pelvis is really badly fractured. And I’m out of good news…

Thanks for asking, though, Walter.


OMG… wshing her the best. She is added to my prayers.

201 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:37:48pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

The best way to make housing affordable is to have the Government stop propping up house prices. No more $8000 “first time home buyers tax credit” (which has a 50% fraud rate [Link: www.npr.org…] ), no more mortgage interest deduction, no more tax-free “cram downs”, no more income tax exemption for forgiven mortgage debt.

(And yes, I’m a homeowner, with two 100% paid-off properties. Because I care about affordable housing, I don’t care one bit if my property “value” declines. I bought a house to live in, not as a piggy bank/ATM machine.)

202 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:02pm

re: #197 RogueOne

The sides switched as soon as there was a change in the White House. The repubs were for it under bush and the dems against. As soon as the election rolled around the Repubs voted against releasing the funds while the dems voted for it. They’re both short-sighted and stupid.

Yes, but I was wondering in actual quantitative terms what the original vote tally was - D’s for/against, R’s for/against. Do you know that?

203 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:18pm

re: #190 RogueOne


Are you actually trying to blame the Bush bailout on the Dems? Please tell me you aren’t trying to revise history that is barely two years old.

204 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:34pm

re: #177 Soap_Man

The bank he dealt with is probably much smarter than the ones my friend dealt with.

One of the reasons they wouldn’t drop the price is because the damage was “minor.” That’s true, but won’t be true for long. The point he was trying to make is that they can sell a $200,000 vacant home for $190,000, or they can sit on it while a minor problem turns into a major problem and sell it for $80,000 because the foundation is fucked. They chose the latter.

Small town banks are the way to go. They weren’t the ones who had to be bailed out because they didn’t play fast and loose with their money.

205 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:39pm

re: #196 MinisterO

Reagan and GB1 might remind us that politicians who preach conservative values and fiscal responsibility are no more likely to lead a fiscally responsible government than a card-carrying ACLU member. Does history have no value?

no, neither does the truth….only dollars make cents

206 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:52pm

re: #203 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you actually trying to blame the Bush bailout on the Dems? Please tell me you aren’t trying to revise history that is barely two years old.

Do you know the vote tally?

207 martinsmithy  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:38:59pm

I notice as well that the platform includes the unconstitutional notion that a simple law can make a child born of aliens in the U.S. an alien too.

The first sentence of the 14th amendment states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

So it will take a constitutional amendment to change this. A constitutional amendment with all sorts of “interesting” side effects.

208 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:39:39pm

re: #195 Lidane

Interestingly enough, I showed all these articles about the Texas GOP platform to my boyfriend, just to get his reaction. He’s not very politically involved at all, but has called himself a Republican in the past.

His first reaction was that I was just reading from some fringe Republican group’s blog or something. When I showed him that it was legitimately the Texas GOP platform, he just shook his head and wondered who put the crazy in the Republican Party’s water supply. He couldn’t believe what he was seeing.

Republicans in Oregon wouldn’t recognize this as the Republican party.

This is what I like in Republicans in Oregon: Allen Alley! Sadly he lost to a baskeball player in the primary for governor, because the dumb side of the GOP here will still vote for a basketball player over a superbrain with an encyclopedic resume. :(

209 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:40:14pm

re: #202 Casual Talker

Yes, but I was wondering in actual quantitative terms what the original vote tally was - D’s for/against, R’s for/against. Do you know that?


Notice the party switches:

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com…]

210 Kragar  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:40:16pm

re: #194 WindUpBird

Did someone post it already? :D:D

But of course. I’m on this thread, aren’t I?

211 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:40:34pm

re: #203 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you actually trying to blame the Bush bailout on the Dems? Please tell me you aren’t trying to revise history that is barely two years old.

no, John Boozman is

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:41:42pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But of course. I’m on this thread, aren’t I?

YOU SIR ARE AWESOME :D

213 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:42:24pm

re: #209 RogueOne

Notice the party switches:

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com…]

Cool. Was that the original vote? I’m trying to find that now.

214 albusteve  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #201 reuven

The best way to make housing affordable is to have the Government stop propping up house prices. No more $8000 “first time home buyers tax credit” (which has a 50% fraud rate [Link: www.npr.org…] ), no more mortgage interest deduction, no more tax-free “cram downs”, no more income tax exemption for forgiven mortgage debt.

(And yes, I’m a homeowner, with two 100% paid-off properties. Because I care about affordable housing, I don’t care one bit if my property “value” declines. I bought a house to live in, not as a piggy bank/ATM machine.)

what a novel idea!….too bad so many buyers don’t do the same thing, and too bad the feds have to pander to elites that use the market for short term profit…oh yeah, with your tax dollars!

215 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:44:37pm

re: #214 albusteve

what a novel idea!…too bad so many buyers don’t do the same thing, and too bad the feds have to pander to elites that use the market for short term profit…oh yeah, with your tax dollars!

How would you feel if the mortgage deduction on income tax was eliminated?

216 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:46:52pm

re: #203 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you actually trying to blame the Bush bailout on the Dems? Please tell me you aren’t trying to revise history that is barely two years old.

No, I’m relaying history as it happened. The repubs have been losing seats since 2006 due strictly to fiscal issues and those who were for the TARP bailout are almost universally in trouble. The Dems who voted for TARP, the auto bailouts, and HCR are now facing the same music. Our elected officials can’t seem to get it in their heads that the people who put them in office don’t want them spending money hand over fist.

217 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:46:58pm

re: #201 reuven

The best way to make housing affordable is to have the Government stop propping up house prices. No more $8000 “first time home buyers tax credit” (which has a 50% fraud rate [Link: www.npr.org…] ), no more mortgage interest deduction, no more tax-free “cram downs”, no more income tax exemption for forgiven mortgage debt.

(And yes, I’m a homeowner, with two 100% paid-off properties. Because I care about affordable housing, I don’t care one bit if my property “value” declines. I bought a house to live in, not as a piggy bank/ATM machine.)

When I buy a house (which will be maybe sorta soon? Not sure) this is it right here. This country stigmatizes renters as failures, and it’s ridiculous, it encourages people to get into houses they can’t afford for some keeping-up-with-the-joneses phantom rite of passage.

218 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:49:46pm

re: #213 Casual Talker

Cool. Was that the original vote? I’m trying to find that now.

No, but I found this and it talks about all the switching sides too:
[Link: www.financialreformwatch.com…]

219 jwazzz  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:50:11pm

Has anyone asked Rick Perry what his thoughts are on re-criminalization of sodomy and how he is going to explain it to his boyfriend?

220 RogueOne  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 2:51:40pm

re: #217 WindUpBird

I grew up in apartments and had zero desire to be a home owner. My wife and I went ‘round and ‘round about it, I wanted a condo and she wanted somewhere we could have dogs. Luckily she won.

221 Firstinla  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:04:14pm

re: #196 MinisterO

Reagan and GB1 might remind us that politicians who preach conservative values and fiscal responsibility are no more likely to lead a fiscally responsible government than a card-carrying ACLU member. Does history have no value?

History has no value if lessons are not learned from it. What has been learned here?

222 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:17:34pm

re: #117 albusteve

pointless war…Afghanistan is rapidly becoming pointless

It has always been.

It’s not a war, if you are going to be honest with yourself, it is an occupation. You can’t “win” an occupation, and you sure as shit can’t win anything in Afghanistan. It amazes me that all knowledge of history goes out the window when we Americans get a hard on for war.

223 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:22:09pm

re: #24 allegro

I want to ask a serious question of those here who still vote or intend to vote Republican in the next election. It is not an attempt to troll - I really want to know. Most of the conservatives here are sane, sensible, intelligent people. What holds you to this party?


I am sure this has been answered, but more than one answer is what is needed, nationwide.

Not all Republican Candidates ascribe to that platform, and not all republicans believe in everything that was in the platform.
Just like not all Democrats would agree with this:
www.cadem.org...]>www.cadem.org…]>

We thus support the right of any competent adult, suffering intractable pain as a consequence of a fatal illness, who has
been medically diagnosed as having not more than six months to live, to obtain the assistance of medical doctors in
painlessly ending her or his own life.

So I have done what any American would (should do), left or right. I have remained active in the Republican Party in Chester County so that I have a say in these things. I will fight for sane planks in the PA platform unlike some (okay, many) in the Texas platform.

224 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:23:38pm

re: #223 Stonemason

Whoops…there was a link there…

225 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:24:11pm

re: #219 jwazzz

Which dryer did you crawl out from under?

226 MinisterO  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:27:01pm

re: #221 Firstinla

History has no value if lessons are not learned from it. What has been learned here?

The party that claims to promote government fiscal responsibility has a lousy track record in that regard, notably worse than the party it labels tax-and-spend?

227 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 3:33:40pm

re: #140 albusteve

Saddam had to go, period…and Iraq became a magnet for AQ and others who we iced by the boatload…perfect

Care to explain why he “had to go”?

A stable Iraq was a counter to Iran in the middle east, now we have what? A leaderless country that most likely will be taken over by thugs supported by Iran the month after we leave?

Iraq had it’s problems, but at least it was a stable and militarily powerful enough country to be a foil for Iran. We destroyed that because of what? WMD’s that never existed? Bahh, Bush II was just trying to go one better than his daddy, otherwise how do you explain it?

We did need to knock out the Taliban and I supported that, but within months Afghanistan became the bastard child with barely 30,000 troops and inadequate air support while we went after Saddam to go make “Bush’s Legacy” in Iraq. Well he got his legacy alright, hundreds of billions wasted in a pointless war that had nothing to do with terrorism or the war against al-qaeda.

Meanwhile al-qaeda and the Taliban flourished in Afghanistan and Pakistan practically unmolested. Obama had to get elected to put boots on the ground where they should have been to start with and to start hunting these people down and kill them.

The Iraq war was nothing but a mistake, it never should have happened, and Bush will forever be remembered for spending a trillion dollars in a war no one but the Neo-Cons wanted to happen.

Suppose we had spent our effort in Afghanistan instead, suppose we had had enough troops and the air support to back them up for the previous 8 years? Do you think maybe that if we had actually paid attention to the people that attacked us instead of a made up “wag the dog” enemy that we might be better of now?

Wake the fuck up and quit listening to the Neo-Con bullshit apologies…

228 Flavia  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 4:09:33pm

re: #89 b_sharp

Your own, or would any penis do?

Well, in Maryland, Margaret Brent managed to do so without one. But it took a lot of doing. :-)

That being said, can we solve two problems with one stone, & give Texas to the Mexicans? All the illegal aliens there will be Mexicans again, & the rest of the US won’t be so embarrassed!

229 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 4:23:02pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Because after all, we needed to bail out the banks and the auto execs, but bailing out ordinary Americans would be un American… After all, only people who burn through billions need to be given a free ride?

What is so insulting about the notion of letting people save their homes after they got screwed in an economic downturn?

Why is it that the OP types care about supporting the wealthy and have no problem handing them even more billions to waste, but helping real hard working Americans is some sort of sin?

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. People losing “their” homes are mostly people who borrowed far too much in the first place and who put little of their own money into the place. Bailing these debtors out is in effect yet another bailout of the improvident big-money lenders who offered that mortgage. It’s big money paid from the public purse to big business that ought to lose big. The externalities are wrong too. Propping up these debtors props up housing prices, and they’re too high as it is.

Let the bubble finally pop. Let the working middle class see housing prices that reflect the actual ability to pay…because a house is, in the end, not really worth more than a qualified buyer can pay.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 4:43:28pm

re: #89 b_sharp

Your own, or would any penis do?

“Girls, I can tell you from personal experience that women’s suffrage is entirely unnecessary. Any strong-minded lady should know when she sends her husband to the poll that he knows what way he is to vote.”

231 Fenris  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:16:02pm

I read through a chunk of the platform last night, for the sake of atrocity tourism. Here’s a couple of my favorite nugget of wisdom:

One World Government Organizations – We oppose a one-world government in direct opposition to our basic principles and eroding
our sovereignty. We oppose the implementation of one world currency.

Oh god! A one-world government is just around the corner! And they’ll make us buy stuff with the…worldo? Eartho? Terro?

Secure America’s border; Northern, Southern, and ports.

Ya just can’t trust them Canadians.

As America is a nation under God founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship in the religion of their choice.

As long as they’re Judeo-Christian. And none of that liberal Reform Jewish cockamamie.

Controversial Theories – Realizing that conflict and debate is a proven learning tool in classrooms, we support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories, including evolution, Intelligent Design, global warming, political philosophies, and others. We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as challengeable scientific theory subject to change as new data is produced, not scientific law. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.

This is a personal favorite of mine, partly because I’ve had one teacher who was a JFK conspiracy theorist, and one who was a Holocaust denier.

Americans with Disabilities Act – We support amendment of the Americans with Disabilities Act to exclude from its definition those persons with infectious diseases, substance addiction, learning disabilities, behavior disorders, homosexual practices and mental stress, thereby reducing abuse of the Act.

Emphasis mine. I’ve got nothing.

We oppose the sale of “Not Rated” (NR) movies and video games to minors.

Made-for-television movies and edutainment games, that means you.

I could do this all day.

232 Michael McBacon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:16:48pm

Theocratic Republicans like these would be better off joining the “Constitution Party”.

233 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:19:37pm

re: #231 fenrisdesigns

I read through a chunk of the platform last night, for the sake of atrocity tourism. Here’s a couple of my favorite nugget of wisdom:

Made-for-television movies and edutainment games, that means you.

I could do this all day.

That comment was hilarious. You should turn it into a page so more people see it!

234 Fenris  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:26:41pm

re: #233 iceweasel

That comment was hilarious. You should turn it into a page so more people see it!

I am honestly quite genuinely shamed, really. Texas is a good state, with great hats.

235 Fenris  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:38:09pm

re: #233 iceweasel

Oh, and done.

236 iceweasel  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:40:33pm

re: #235 fenrisdesigns

Oh, and done.

Updinged! And that too!
Very cool. :)

237 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:43:39pm

re: #234 fenrisdesigns

I am honestly quite genuinely shamed, really. Texas is a good state, with great hats.

and even greater belt-buckles!

238 Ning the Merciless  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 5:51:28pm

Can we kick Texas out of the US now?

239 Lidane  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 6:28:11pm

re: #238 Ning the Merciless

Can we kick Texas out of the US now?

Better idea— kick the social conservatives and religious nuts out of the GOP already. Let them all go to the Constitution Party where they belong, and try to restore some semblance of sanity to the GOP.

Some of us here in Texas like being Americans, and we’re not raging nutjob conspiracy loons. Don’t tar my state just because some whackadoo idiots have taken over the Republican Party and infected it with bad crazy.

240 Michael McBacon  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 8:42:45pm

re: #239 Lidane

Better idea— kick the social conservatives and religious nuts out of the GOP already. Let them all go to the Constitution Party where they belong, and try to restore some semblance of sanity to the GOP.

Absolutely!

241 Fenris  Tue, Jun 22, 2010 9:01:12pm

re: #238 Ning the Merciless

Now now, Texas isn’t ALL bad. Houston elected Anise Parker, after all.

And great hats.

242 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:04:34am

“We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values”

Heck, you can oppose it all you want, just not with violence or discrimination against gays.

243 BongCrodny  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 3:38:14am

Can Texas Republicans even be considered to be fiscal conservatives?

Wouldn’t we need acres and acres of freshly-grown bureaucrats to monitor some of the stuff they’re proposing?

For example, isn’t the Texas Board of Education (where Republicans outnumber Democrats 10-5) dust-up going to cost the country a lot of money if we wind up with two distinct sets of textbooks? Not certain if I’m remembering the ramifications correctly, but I seem to recall reading a couple articles suggesting that particular outcome.

Not to mention the fact that it would take a staff of at least three or four (with occasional overtime) just to monitor *my* penis.

Just kidding about that last part. A feller can dream, though.

244 Locker  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 6:50:27am

re: #10 Charles

Locker is having problems accessing LGF with Firefox, but I can’t duplicate them; Firefox works fine for me, both Mac and Windows. It’s pretty clear from his description that Javascript is being disabled somehow, but he says NoScript (the usual culprit) isn’t at fault. Can anyone suggest something else for him to check?

Just a tiny bit of technical feedback. The login button is greyed out on the main page so I can’t log in. However, if I use the LGF bookmarklet to post something, a login window appears where the login button is NOT greyed out, that is how I logged in today.

Not sure if it helps but I figured I’d pass it along…

245 sffilk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 6:59:14am

re: #39 albusteve

I don’t vote against my ideals…if no candidate supports them, I don’t vote…so I can’t imagine voting for president next year

While I appreciate what you’re saying, the problem is: if you don’t vote, you’re losing your right to help decide who things will go in the next administration. Last time, since I thought neither candidate was up to the task, I voted “none of the above” to express my disapproval towards ALL the candidates. You may think it’s a wasted vote, but at least I had the cojones to show my dissatisfaction with all the candidates out there. Maybe I should’ve written in my name instead?

246 sffilk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 7:13:07am

re: #132 Spare O’Lake

This is a pile of crap IMO, since the SCOTUS struck down the Texas sodomy laws in 2003 in the case of Lawrence v. Texas.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The problem is, Texas wants someone to reverse the U.S. Supreme Court in Lawrence v. Texas. They don’t want to accept that it’s the law of the land now.

247 mr. hammer  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 7:39:39am

Folks -
I realize that this thread is dead and gone, but if anybody is still watching, can you tell me if this GOP Platform was actually adopted by the Texas GOP? The document is not on Texas GOP letterhead, and is not linked to the Texas GOP website… I can’t find any information on it apart from some blogs… Where did this document come from?

248 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 8:57:25am

re: #247 mr. hammer

Right. You never know. The Texas Tribune might have faked it.

249 mr. hammer  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 9:26:00am

I am not claiming that Charles, but I’ve only seen the document referred to as a proposal that was “voted on”. And since the Texas GOP website makes no mention of it, I am just wondering what the status of it is or if maybe it has not (yet) have been adopted.

It also seemed odd to me that it’s not printed on Texas GOP letterhead…

250 S'latch  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:50:22am

re: #246 sffilk

The question of whether Congress could strip the federal courts of jurisdiction over cases involving rights that have been held to be fundamental is interesting to me. The Due Process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments might trump Congress’ authority to limit federal court jurisdiction. But, even if litigants don’t have access to the federal court, they can still go to state court. So, even if Congress did strip the federal courts of jurisdiction over some types of case involving fundamental rights, the right could still be protected. I think you would have to assume that the state court would uphold the law.

251 sffilk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:32:20pm

re: #250 Lawrence Schmerel

The question of whether Congress could strip the federal courts of jurisdiction over cases involving rights that have been held to be fundamental is interesting to me. The Due Process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments might trump Congress’ authority to limit federal court jurisdiction. But, even if litigants don’t have access to the federal court, they can still go to state court. So, even if Congress did strip the federal courts of jurisdiction over some types of case involving fundamental rights, the right could still be protected. I think you would have to assume that the state court would uphold the law.

I’d have to disagree with your last sentence, especially when it would come to Texas and the mindset that’s there. I would also hasten to add in the phrase I was taught while in the Navy: “‘Assume’ means to make an ‘ass’ out of ‘u’ and ‘me.’”

252 S'latch  Thu, Jun 24, 2010 6:53:25am

re: #251 sffilk

As Charles Dickens wrote in Oliver Twist, “The law is an ass.”

But, any U.S. court that lacks jurisdiction will assume, by deference, that another U.S. court which has jurisdiction will exercise that jurisdiction.


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