Report: McChrystal Offers Resignation

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CNN is reporting, via Time Magazine’s Joe Klein:

Here are the latest developments involving Gen. Stanley McChrystal, America’s top commander in Afghanistan. He and his staff made comments in a Rolling Stone article that appear to mock top civilian officials, including Vice President Joe Biden. The story, which is to appear in Friday’s edition, was written by Michael Hastings.

[Updated at 4:41 p.m.] Gen. Stanley McChrystal has submitted his resignation, Time magazine’s Joe Klein told CNN, citing an unnamed source. CNN is working to confirm Klein’s information.

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726 comments
1 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:32:29pm

Obama to go on TV shortly and may confirm.

2 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 2:32:42pm

Probably a “resign or we will publicly-shitcan you” situation.

And he deserved it too. If my boss found out I was saying shit like that, in a damn magazine no less, I would be shown the door in a heartbeat.

3 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:33:54pm

I wonder if it was jointly agreed to do this today rather than to throw the spotlight on tomorrow’s meeting.

4 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:34:10pm

He flounced. The article was his last angry post, replete with shots at all all things annoying about the administration. It’s a pentagon Generals flounce.

I wonder if he’ll become a blogger at some site like National Review or Politico. Maybe run for office?

5 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:34:51pm

re: #4 rightwingconspirator

He flounced. The article was his last angry post, replete with shots at all all things annoying about the administration. It’s a pentagon Generals flounce.

I wonder if he’ll become a blogger at some site like National Review or Politico. Maybe run for office?

Wasn’t he originally an Obama supporter though?

6 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:35:14pm

re: #2 Soap_Man

Probably a “resign or we will publicly-shitcan you” situation.

And he deserved it too. If my boss found out I was saying shit like that, in a damn magazine no less, I would be shown the door in a heartbeat.

As a Chief in the Navy, I could not get away with trash talking about my Captain like that, and this was the POTUS and VP.

7 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:35:26pm

re: #5 Casual Talker

He says he voted for him, but served under Bush at JSOC.

8 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 2:35:39pm

Obama on CNN now talking about it.

9 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 2:35:45pm

re: #4 rightwingconspirator

He flounced. The article was his last angry post, replete with shots at all all things annoying about the administration. It’s a pentagon Generals flounce.

I wonder if he’ll become a blogger at some site like National Review or Politico. Maybe run for office?

I have to wonder if he has political aspirations. He could be a Tea Party Hero just for shitting on the President.

10 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:35:55pm

re: #4 rightwingconspirator

He flounced. The article was his last angry post, replete with shots at all all things annoying about the administration. It’s a pentagon Generals flounce.

I wonder if he’ll become a blogger at some site like National Review or Politico. Maybe run for office?

And Obama could have a loose cannon running around out there… with a big mouth… wonderful.

11 Montaigne's Cat  Jun 22, 2010 2:36:19pm

Better that the criticized civilians submit their resignation.

12 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 2:36:28pm

re: #4 rightwingconspirator

He flounced. The article was his last angry post, replete with shots at all all things annoying about the administration. It’s a pentagon Generals flounce.

I wonder if he’ll become a blogger at some site like National Review or Politico. Maybe run for office?

If that’s true, than why apologize for it?

13 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:36:30pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

I have to wonder if he has political aspirations. He could be a Tea Party Hero just for shitting on the President.

He will be a hero period for shitting on the President.

14 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:36:44pm

re: #5 Casual Talker

Wasn’t he originally an Obama supporter though?

He has a reputation of talking out of turn, the fact that he voted for Obama apparently didn’t change that.

15 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 2:37:16pm

re: #8 allegro

Obama on CNN now talking about it.

What a farcical lack of discipline and a big mouth. This guy deserves to get the boot…and so does Gen. McChrystal.

16 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 2:37:44pm

re: #15 Spare O’Lake

What a farcical lack of discipline and a big mouth. This guy deserves to get the boot…and so does Gen. McChrystal.

Ba-dum-bum.

17 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:37:47pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

I have to wonder if he has political aspirations. He could be a Tea Party Hero just for shitting on the President.

I would say he would be far more appealing than many of the names commonly mentioned to run against Obama. That says more about the Likes of Huckabee and Palin than the General though.

18 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:38:05pm

re: #12 Soap_Man

If that’s true, than why apologize for it?

Formality.

19 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 2:38:05pm

So long general. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.

20 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 2:38:20pm

re: #11 Montaigne’s Cat

Better that the criticized civilians submit their resignation.

Yes, politicizing the military is a WONDERFUL idea…

21 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 2:39:08pm

re: #11 Montaigne’s Cat

Better that the criticized civilians submit their resignation.

Is this sarcastic?

22 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:39:40pm

re: #7 rightwingconspirator

He says he voted for him, but served under Bush at JSOC.

So having it a little of both ways, eh?

23 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:40:05pm

re: #14 avanti

He has a reputation of talking out of turn, the fact that he voted for Obama apparently didn’t change that.

Yeah, it was a nutty move - but likely good for his wallet.

24 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:40:54pm

Omaba just said the general is on the way to DC, no mention of resignation.

25 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 2:42:51pm

re: #18 rightwingconspirator

Formality.

I guess. But if the point was to shit on the president, then shouldn’t he have made the classic “unapology apology”? You know, to send the message loud and clear that he doesn’t feel bad about it at all?

“I’m sorry if my words were misconstrued/taken out of context.” For example.

26 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:43:23pm

re: #25 Soap_Man

I guess. But if the point was to shit on the president, then shouldn’t he have made the classic “unapology apology”? You know, to send the message loud and clear that he doesn’t feel bad about it at all?

“I’m sorry if my words were misconstrued/taken out of context.” For example.

I thought he already apologized. No?

27 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 2:43:32pm

Tact - art of being able to tell someone to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

You would think a lifetime Military man would have been better at it

28 Martinsmithy  Jun 22, 2010 2:44:12pm

I smell a 2012 presidential bid …

29 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 2:44:20pm

re: #20 ShaunP

Yes, politicizing the military is a WONDERFUL idea…

A lot of people seem to forget that the US military works for us civilians. Not the other way around. That’s why the POTUS, a civilian, is the CiC.

30 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:44:36pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

I have to wonder if he has political aspirations. He could be a Tea Party Hero just for shitting on the President.

of course…that’s a given

31 b_sharp  Jun 22, 2010 2:44:59pm

re: #29 iceweasel

A lot of people seem to forget that the US military works for us civilians. Not the other way around. That’s why the POTUS, a civilian, is the CiC.

How’s Jimmah doing?

32 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 2:45:29pm

re: #23 Casual Talker

Yeah, it was a nutty move - but likely good for his wallet.

Indeed. He’ll get a 7 figure advance for his memoirs now. He had to go though: It’s OK for Jay Leno to publicly mock Joe Biden but generals cannot be allowed to do so without grave damage to the chain of command.

33 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:45:35pm

re: #25 Soap_Man

I guess. But if the point was to shit on the president, then shouldn’t he have made the classic “unapology apology”? You know, to send the message loud and clear that he doesn’t feel bad about it at all?

“I’m sorry if my words were misconstrued/taken out of context.” For example.

Obama is the kind of guy that wants to hear directly from the general as to what was said, and intended. He has to make sure he gets a fair hearing before tossing the baby out with the bath water.

34 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:45:35pm

re: #25 Soap_Man

I guess. But if the point was to shit on the president, then shouldn’t he have made the classic “unapology apology”? You know, to send the message loud and clear that he doesn’t feel bad about it at all?

“I’m sorry if my words were misconstrued/taken out of context.” For example.

Well… hopefully he’ll still have the opportunity to do this if he really feels secure in the remarks he made.

35 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 2:45:36pm

re: #26 Casual Talker

I thought he already apologized. No?

He did:

“I extend my sincerest apology for this profile. It was a mistake reflecting poor judgment and should never have happened. Throughout my career, I have lived by the principles of personal honor and professional integrity. What is reflected in this article falls far short of that standard. I have enormous respect and admiration for President Obama and his national security team, and for the civilian leaders and troops fighting this war, and I remain committed to ensuring
its successful outcome.”

The doesn’t sound like someone who did this as a flounce. If it was, he would have made the unapology apology IMO. Or at least that’s what I would have done.

36 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2010 2:45:58pm

Grimacing crazy uncle, coming up next on CNN.

37 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 2:46:18pm

re: #31 b_sharp

How’s Jimmah doing?

Hi b! :)
Back from hospital with all kinds of antibiotics, apparently. How are you?

38 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 2:46:22pm

The fact that he’s been an incompetent General in Afpak will mean nothing to the right. The only thing they care about is making Obama look bad. I’m not saying Obama is right in how he’s handling the war, but the facts on the ground are meaningless to the political hacks who will gleefully take advantage of this.

39 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:09pm

re: #36 Charles

Grimacing crazy uncle, coming up next on CNN.

LUAP NOR?

40 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:17pm

re: #30 albusteve

of course…that’s a given

funny I was just reading the Book of War (again) and there has always been a back and forth between the military and civilian leaders…

41 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:30pm

re: #29 iceweasel

The scary thing is how many people would be glad to see that reversed.

42 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:41pm

re: #38 Irenicum

The fact that he’s been an incompetent General in Afpak will mean nothing to the right. The only thing they care about is making Obama look bad. I’m not saying Obama is right in how he’s handling the war, but the facts on the ground are meaningless to the political hacks who will gleefully take advantage of this.

So… in your professional military tactical and operations experience, you know for a fact that he has been an “incompetent general?”

43 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:42pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. He’ll get a 7 figure advance for his memoirs now. He had to go though: It’s OK for Jay Leno to publicly mock Joe Biden but generals cannot be allowed to do so without grave damage to the chain of command.

I think he could give a shit…he should have kept his mouth shut, but I get a dark kick out of the whole thing….some of his complaints must be true, if not all of them…bunch of fucking clowns, goofing around with American lives….they all suck

44 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 2:47:43pm

I’m shocked, and I don’t feel I’m being naive. He’s a 4 star general. He swore to uphold the US Constitution. He explicitly broke that oath. I really wonder about his overall judgment now.

45 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:02pm

re: #20 ShaunP

Yes, politicizing the military is a WONDERFUL idea…

The military’s been politicized for years. Politicians have been micro-managing and brow-beating generals for years, telling them what they can and can’t do, when they can and can’t do it, and how much they can spend on doing it all, aimed at “winning hearts and minds.” Sometimes it makes sense, because you get a General Ripper who thinks the way to win a way is to firebomb the enemy back to the treeline and then nuke them out of existence, and he needs to kept on a short leash. But it also means you get generals who can’t decide to shit or go blind, because they’re afraid that taking action or not taking action might get them drug to D.C. to answer for their “crimes.”

Having not read Gen. McChrystal’s grievances, I don’t know what exactly his view on the whole deal is. But I’ve heard more than a few politicians in my (admittedly) short life time making political hay out of the “mishandling” of this battle or that war to believe that his words are without merit.

46 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:05pm

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

47 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:18pm

re: #44 prairiefire

I’m shocked, and I don’t feel I’m being naive. He’s a 4 star general. He swore to uphold the US Constitution. He explicitly broke that oath. I really wonder about his overall judgment now.

Shocked… oh come on… like this has never happened before… you want a list… start with McArthur.

48 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:35pm

re: #44 prairiefire

I’m shocked, and I don’t feel I’m being naive. He’s a 4 star general. He swore to uphold the US Constitution. He explicitly broke that oath. I really wonder about his overall judgment now.

oh poo, the Constitution is broken everyday…no big deal

49 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:40pm

On CNN: McCrystal has OFFERED to resign. He didn’t resign yet.

50 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:46pm

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

No, I don’t. I’ve never served in the military (I tried. Was underweight). But I do read those with military experience who do know what they’re talking about, like Michael Yon. I trust that what he’s saying is straight on. And he’s been very critical of McChrystal’s leadership in Afpak.

51 b_sharp  Jun 22, 2010 2:49:57pm

re: #37 iceweasel

Hi b! :)
Back from hospital with all kinds of antibiotics, apparently. How are you?

That’s good to hear. I was a tad worried. Are you guys in Scotland or the US right now?

I’m doing pretty well. Bloody busy at work though, I’m building and setting up 3 Linux servers while at the same time trying to save two schools from their MS 2003 Servers.

52 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:50:12pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

Holy shit, scatman, I have to basically almost 100 percent agree with you.

53 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 2:50:29pm

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

Shocked… oh come on… like this has never happened before… you want a list… start with McArthur.

Patton?

54 avanti  Jun 22, 2010 2:50:32pm

re: #36 Charles

Grimacing crazy uncle, coming up next on CNN.

Yep, but noticed Mary Matalin give a positive review of Obama’s comments. BTW, Time now says he offered his resignation, not given it.

55 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:07pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. He’ll get a 7 figure advance for his memoirs now. He had to go though: It’s OK for Jay Leno to publicly mock Joe Biden but generals cannot be allowed to do so without grave damage to the chain of command.

I really wonder if his issue wasn’t more local than with Obama. Sounds like he had more direct issues with Eikenberry/Holbrooke.

The sad part of this is that we need good leaders out there. With Petraeus collapsing last week and now this…….

Any ideas who might be up to task?

56 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:08pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

Yeah, when I saw he had unloaded to Rolling Stone, I went…hmmm! That’s no accident!

57 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:10pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

Good points. He may feel that if he can’t get a victory, then at least by flinging mud at the president he’ll get a good book deal and some fame as a whistle blower.

58 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:35pm

re: #38 Irenicum

Say what you want about his recent service, but at JSOC he is reputed to have been one of the very best, really changed how they do things. According to the article, it was Karzai that got Obama to put off the offensive, which may have been a big strategic mistake. Of course that is a matter of debate, and the President has in authority beyond question.

He is a COIN architect. Which is “take and hold” rather than devastate and declare victory. A whole different way to fight.

59 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:37pm

re: #49 allegro

On CNN: McCrystal has OFFERED to resign. He didn’t resign yet.

“where’s my petard?….find my petard, it’s almost 6 o’clock!”

60 blueraven  Jun 22, 2010 2:51:57pm

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

He will be a hero period for shitting on the President.

No, he won’t Walter.

61 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 2:52:10pm

re: #53 brookly red

Patton?

Patton was nuttier than a fruitcake. Man wanted to rearm the Nazis, turn them around, and sic ‘em on the Soviets. The man decided that there hadn’t been enough bloodshed yet and he wanted to get WWIII going while the fires of WWII were still smoldering.

62 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:52:24pm

re: #50 Irenicum

No, I don’t. I’ve never served in the military (I tried. Was underweight). But I do read those with military experience who do know what they’re talking about, like Michael Yon. I trust that what he’s saying is straight on. And he’s been very critical of McChrystal’s leadership in Afpak.

Then it’s a no-win either way… this stink is not going to look good on Obama either way… either this guy was good, and policy coming down from above him was shit and pissed him off… or he was incompetent and should have been move on a long time ago… either way, this is going to fall right into Obama’s lap.

Too bad.

63 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:52:57pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

From what I’ve read, RS got a lot of extra time since they were grounded during the Icelandic volcano. Doesn’t change things at all, but I wonder if the man let his guard down over time.

64 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:53:30pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Holy shit, scatman, I have to basically almost 100 percent agree with you.

P.S. I’ll try my best not to have that happen to many times.

65 b_sharp  Jun 22, 2010 2:53:49pm

I’m off to get the wife.

66 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 2:54:20pm

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

re: #48 albusteve

Ok, I guess your calling me naive. I’m still shocked.

67 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:54:37pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Then it’s a no-win either way… this stink is not going to look good on Obama either way… either this guy was good, and policy coming down from above him was shit and pissed him off… or he was incompetent and should have been move on a long time ago… either way, this is going to fall right into Obama’s lap.

Too bad.

yup….another shitstain, a big one…people are dying in Afghanistan…somebody has really fucked up

68 Curt  Jun 22, 2010 2:54:44pm

re: #44 prairiefire

I’m shocked, and I don’t feel I’m being naive. He’s a 4 star general. He swore to uphold the US Constitution. He explicitly broke that oath. I really wonder about his overall judgment now.

Making sure remarks are covered under the UCMJ, not in The Constitution.

Trash talking about your boss is rude, not acceptable, but comes no where close to not supporting The Constitution.

Get a grip.

Now, defecting and giving aid and comfort to the enemy, that’s called treason,,,and yes, then I’d agree with you, but this is no where close.

69 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 2:54:48pm

Oh jeez, now Rand Paul was “entrapped by the media” according to his pop. All that quoting in context and stuff.

70 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 2:55:17pm

re: #49 allegro

On CNN: McCrystal has OFFERED to resign. He didn’t resign yet.

I think Obama’s track record indicates that he tosses folks he appointed under the bus if he sees it as a political win for himself.

71 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 2:55:27pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Then it’s a no-win either way… this stink is not going to look good on Obama either way… either this guy was good, and policy coming down from above him was shit and pissed him off… or he was incompetent and should have been move on a long time ago… either way, this is going to fall right into Obama’s lap.

Too bad.

No it won’t. McChrystal will be forced to resign in disgrace, the media taking turns lashing him for speaking out against his civilian master. Obama will call up somebody more to his liking and send him to “clean up the mess.” And that will be the end of it. He’ll be the Right’s Shinseki, held up as proof that Obama’s not serious about protecting America when he punishes generals rather than listens to them.

72 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 2:55:31pm

re: #61 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Patton was nuttier than a fruitcake. Man wanted to rearm the Nazis, turn them around, and sic ‘em on the Soviets. The man decided that there hadn’t been enough bloodshed yet and he wanted to get WWIII going while the fires of WWII were still smoldering.

that is true, my point is only that this is not the first time there have been issues between civilian leaders & their generals… the generals generally lose.

73 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 2:55:33pm

re: #53 brookly red

Patton?

Different reasons on Patton’s part.

74 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:56:26pm

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No it won’t. McChrystal will be forced to resign in disgrace, the media taking turns lashing him for speaking out against his civilian master. Obama will call up somebody more to his liking and send him to “clean up the mess.” And that will be the end of it. He’ll be the Right’s Shinseki, held up as proof that Obama’s not serious about protecting America when he punishes generals rather than listens to them.

Hadn’t thought about the Shinseki parallel.

75 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 2:56:30pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was a flounce actually. Generals don’t mess up like that over multiple interviews without realizing the consequences. It is possibly a segway to a political bid. Using Rolling Stone as the magazine could have been monumentally savvy in that it would get the genral’s opinions out to a segment of the populace that might not otherwise be receptive to him.

On the other hand, it is possible that the General is simply fed up with a thankless and gruelling job, that requires a non-existent magic wand. He would not be the first General to be thrilled to be relived of a no-win command.

Apparently, his secret service code name is YoungLibertarian92
//

Seriously, it was a flounce. Being fed up with a job is no reason for going out a la Britney Spears vs. K-Fed to the press. That kind of shit makes the whole country look bad.

76 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 2:57:01pm

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No it won’t. McChrystal will be forced to resign in disgrace, the media taking turns lashing him for speaking out against his civilian master. Obama will call up somebody more to his liking and send him to “clean up the mess.” And that will be the end of it. He’ll be the Right’s Shinseki, held up as proof that Obama’s not serious about protecting America when he punishes generals rather than listens to them.

wrong…McCrystal will continue to speak out, that’s where the money is…BO is dirt on this one, and rightly so imo

77 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 2:57:59pm

re: #53 brookly red

Patton?

Not really. Patton didn’t quarrel with the politicians, he ended up getting the gate over his treatment of displaced persons and POWs. Patton, though a fine general, was an anti-Semite and kept displaced Jews locked up in camps worse than those inhabited by former Waffen SS men. The only displaced persons Patton treated favorably were the Poles, whom he respected as brave comrades. It was a Jewish Army doctor who blew the whistle on Patton’s actions.

78 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 2:57:59pm

I’m confused why the right is getting all the grief for this asshat. He voted for the current president, he accepted his assignment from the current president, and he had a bad habit of running his mouth. He isn’t a hero, he’s a moron.

79 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:58:28pm

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No it won’t. McChrystal will be forced to resign in disgrace, the media taking turns lashing him for speaking out against his civilian master. Obama will call up somebody more to his liking and send him to “clean up the mess.” And that will be the end of it. He’ll be the Right’s Shinseki, held up as proof that Obama’s not serious about protecting America when he punishes generals rather than listens to them.

Whatever… my scenario, your scenario… Obama is gonna have big stink on him.

80 Ming  Jun 22, 2010 2:58:29pm

It is simply impossible for McCrystal to continue to serve. It would be an insult to the professionalism of the US military. And it would be an insult to the Presidency itself. Politicians can (and do) permit themselves mistakes like this. Soldiers cannot, ever.

81 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 2:58:52pm

re: #78 RogueOne

I’m confused why the right is getting all the grief for this asshat. He voted for the current president, he accepted his assignment from the current president, and he had a bad habit of running his mouth. He isn’t a hero, he’s a moron.

What were the original qualities for which he was put into the position by Obama?

82 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 2:58:56pm

re: #75 darthstar

Apparently, his secret service code name is YoungLibertarian92
//

Seriously, it was a flounce. Being fed up with a job is no reason for going out a la Britney Spears vs. K-Fed to the press. That kind of shit makes the whole country look bad.

No… it makes Obama look bad…. and rightly so.

83 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:08pm

He’s not actually out yet.

Hasn’t been accepted by BO or Secretary Gates.

This could get interesting.

McCrystal-Palin 2012?

84 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:20pm

re: #81 Casual Talker

What were the original qualities for which he was put into the position by Obama?

He was instrumental in the counter-insurgency plan in Iraq.

85 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:30pm

It boggles my mind that McChrystal would have thought that going to Rolling Stone with his gripes so publicly would do him or the country any good? I hope Obama doesn’t accept his resignation but reassigns him. That way he keeps a tether on him.

86 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:43pm

I think Obama won’t accept the off of resignation. Keeping him tied up with some shitty job is the best way to make him miserable.

87 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:50pm

re: #75 darthstar

Apparently, his secret service code name is YoungLibertarian92
//

ROFL, laughed so loud my co workers looked at me like I lost my mind… And there is just no explaining that line.

88 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 2:59:55pm

re: #61 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Patton was nuttier than a fruitcake. Man wanted to rearm the Nazis, turn them around, and sic ‘em on the Soviets. The man decided that there hadn’t been enough bloodshed yet and he wanted to get WWIII going while the fires of WWII were still smoldering.

Roughly 20 million dead russians would have voted for the Patton plan.

89 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:00:18pm

re: #83 dugmartsch

He’s not actually out yet.

Hasn’t been accepted by BO or Secretary Gates.

This could get interesting.

McCrystal-Palin 2012?

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking.

90 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:00:37pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

I think Obama won’t accept the off of resignation. Keeping him tied up with some shitty job is the best way to make him miserable.

With everyone wanting him to resign, is that really a winner?

91 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 3:00:59pm

re: #83 dugmartsch

Oh great. A flouncing General and a reincarnated Queen Esther. Just what we need.

92 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:01:06pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

No… it makes Obama look bad… and rightly so.

Makes Obama look bad to people who already looked at him askew.

Little bit of wishful thinking if you believe that a supporter is going to choose a still serving general over a president. That’d be rather unprecedented in American history.

93 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:01:13pm

re: #78 RogueOne

I’m confused why the right is getting all the grief for this asshat. He voted for the current president, he accepted his assignment from the current president, and he had a bad habit of running his mouth. He isn’t a hero, he’s a moron.

Hero = guy who talks shit about the guy you don’t like.
Hero = the dude you think is in your “camp”

The enemy of my enemy, etc.

94 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:01:40pm

re: #84 darthstar

He was instrumental in the counter-insurgency plan in Iraq.

yes, and there was 100k troops in Iraq and something to work with…Afghanistan is entirely different, an almost hopeless situation without a massive buildup…30k troops is a waste of lives

95 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 3:01:56pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

I think Obama won’t accept the off of resignation. Keeping him tied up with some shitty job is the best way to make him miserable.

I agree with you, because Obama will be guided in this matter solely by what is to his OWN political advantage. Firing McChrystal is certainly not a move which is clearly in Obama’s political interests.

96 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:02:02pm

re: #84 darthstar

He was instrumental in the counter-insurgency plan in Iraq.

Well, it sounds like he and the civ. leaders are not seeing eye to eye on what to do in Afghanistan, so maybe it’s for the best that they get a commander in there that can work better with the diplomats.

97 karmic_inquisitor  Jun 22, 2010 3:02:37pm

FWIW, this could all have been predicted. McChrystal instituted some bizarre and counterproductive rules of engagement in Afghanistan and there are many in his chain of command who will be happy to see him go - no doubt many helped the RS with “research.” Yet they probably are wondering what will replace him, because the Obama admin has cocked up Afghanistan in a great many ways - like coming out against Karzai in an election which he ended up winning. What was the sense in that? What was the upside in that? Then there is the strangeness now in the NATO mix wherein a Frenchman ends up playing the role of the decisive ass kicker (yet we use ass kicking rhetoric about “someone” related to “British” Petroleum (the former name of BP - back from nationalization days). Biden is still touting a withdrawal policy on goes off script continuously. And much of this plays out in the media as folks learn to leak and counter leak to screw over people they can’t bring themselves to compromise with.

It is all a big friggun mess and getting messier. With a muddled set of policies in the middle east and alliance partners not sure who is calling what shots and when (could HRC be creating some of this trouble? Gotta ask.) this is all getting more f’d up.

Oh - and now we have to figure out what to do about Iran. Somehow Israel has to not attack (lest the region explode) yet we can’t attack either (lest the regions explode) so we will send a flotilla warships over there to ACT like we just MIGHT attack. Maybe then a fist might unclench.

98 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:02:49pm

re: #81 Casual Talker

What were the original qualities for which he was put into the position by Obama?

BO doesn’t even know the guy…that’s part of the problem…Gates put in charge

99 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:03:09pm

re: #90 Casual Talker

With everyone wanting him to resign, is that really a winner?

It depends. Keeping him in the military not only makes him miserable but it keeps him from becoming a Tea Party activist.

100 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:03:14pm

re: #80 Ming

It is simply impossible for McCrystal to continue to serve. It would be an insult to the professionalism of the US military. And it would be an insult to the Presidency itself. Politicians can (and do) permit themselves mistakes like this. Soldiers cannot, ever.

That’s basically what James Fallows is arguing in the Atlantic today:

It is not about Afghanistan policy — although, of course it’s about that too, with McChrystal as the face and mind of the strategy Obama bought into at the end of last year.

It’s about civilian control of the military, respect for the chain of command, and the concepts of disrespect and insubordination. Every officer and enlisted person in every military branch is well schooled in what those concepts mean.

If the facts are as they appear — McChrystal and his associates freely mocking their commander in chief and his possible successor (ie, Biden) and the relevant State Department officials (Holbrooke and Eikenberry) — with no contention that the quotes were invented or misconstrued, then Obama owes it to past and future presidents to draw the line and say: this is not tolerable. You must go. McChrystal’s team was inexplicably reckless in talking before a reporter this way, but that’s a separate question. The fact is — or appears to be — that they did it

101 abolitionist  Jun 22, 2010 3:03:22pm

re: #88 RogueOne

Roughly 20 million dead russians would have voted for the Patton plan.

Are you referring to victims of Stalin’s purges and starvation policies?

102 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:03:42pm

re: #85 Irenicum

It boggles my mind that McChrystal would have thought that going to Rolling Stone with his gripes so publicly would do him or the country any good? I hope Obama doesn’t accept his resignation but reassigns him. That way he keeps a tether on him.

Bill can go if he pleases…BO has nothing on him

103 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:03:49pm

here is a good quote from the book of war… “A sovereign of high character and intelligence must be able to know the right man, should place the responsibility on him, and expect results.”

unfortunately you can read it either way…

104 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2010 3:04:01pm

By the way, if anyone needs a very large external hard drive for backups, video, etc., here’s a great deal on the Western Digital WD Elements 2 TB USB 2.0 Drive, for $133.99 with free shipping. For a 2TB WD drive and powered USB enclosure, that’s real cheap. I’m going to use one for a Time Machine backup, because my 1TB backup drive has gotten too small since I started converting DVDs to movie files.

105 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:04:02pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

It depends. Keeping him in the military not only makes him miserable but it keeps him from becoming a Tea Party activist.

Is there evidence that he is planning to do so? I thought he voted for Obama. What did I miss?

106 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:04:25pm

re: #90 Casual Talker

With everyone wanting him to resign, is that really a winner?

no, it’s petty, but expected

107 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:04:32pm

re: #76 albusteve

wrong…McCrystal will continue to speak out, that’s where the money is…BO is dirt on this one, and rightly so imo

Yeah, he’ll speak out, but he’ll be brushed off as Shinseki was, as being “incompetent,” “unruly,” and (the greatest sin of all) “conservative.” Dirt will be dug up to show that every bad call, every mistake, every casualty in Afghanistan can be traced back to him. The man’s going to carry the stink around with him for the rest of his life.

108 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:04:54pm

re: #82 Walter L. Newton

No… it makes Obama look bad… and rightly so.

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

109 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:05:05pm

re: #72 brookly red

that is true, my point is only that this is not the first time there have been issues between civilian leaders & their generals… the generals generally lose.

If the GEN has offered, but not been accepted, the President could decline, and do a bit of Lincoln—McClellan. That didn’t work, ultimately.

110 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 3:05:28pm

re: #105 Casual Talker

Is there evidence that he is planning to do so? I thought he voted for Obama. What did I miss?

I’m guessing anyone with presidential aspirations is going to be guided by those aspirations far more than who they pulled the lever for two years ago.

111 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:05:33pm

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

I agree with you, because Obama will be guided in this matter solely by what is to his OWN political advantage. Firing McChrystal is certainly not a move which is clearly in Obama’s political interests.

BO is fucked, plain and simple

112 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:05:54pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

the question is how will the taliban take it?

113 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:12pm

re: #107 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, he’ll speak out, but he’ll be brushed off as Shinseki was, as being “incompetent,” “unruly,” and (the greatest sin of all) “conservative.” Dirt will be dug up to show that every bad call, every mistake, every casualty in Afghanistan can be traced back to him. The man’s going to carry the stink around with him for the rest of his life.

Then that’s his burden to carry. He has to know that what he did and said would make him look bad to some people.

Rolling Stone didn’t put a gun to his head.

114 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:40pm

re: #79 Walter L. Newton

Whatever… my scenario, your scenario… Obama is gonna have big stink on him.

I seriously doubt it. Obama’s been walking away from the stink of the War on Terror (sorry, Overseas Contingency Operations) since he came to office. This wasn’t the first confrontation he’s had with McChrystal, and he walked away from that one being seen as the better man, for wagging his finger at a general who forgot that politics stops at the water’s edge.

115 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:52pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

If you were president, would YOU let him continue to say those things in print and continue to serve? ;-)

116 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #103 brookly red

here is a good quote from the book of war… “A sovereign of high character and intelligence must be able to know the right man, should place the responsibility on him, and expect results.”

unfortunately you can read it either way…

Well, I’d question the ‘high character’ part when it comes to Obama (though not the intelligence) and there’s also a good bit to argue that McChrystal is not the right man.

117 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #101 abolitionist

Are you referring to victims of Stalin’s purges and starvation policies?

Yes.

118 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:06:56pm

re: #112 brookly red

the question is how will the taliban take it?

they are partying like it’s 1985….they won this one

119 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:08pm

re: #105 Casual Talker

Is there evidence that he is planning to do so? I thought he voted for Obama. What did I miss?

Well, his article was a high profile “fuck you” to Obama. It wasn’t a mistake he knew what he was doing. I assume he might have political aspirations. Wingnuts will instantly love and defend anyone who publicly insults or embarrasses the President so I think that might have been his motivation.

120 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:08pm

If this is a strategy to run against Obama in 2012, then it requires the situation to get worse in the run up to the election.

121 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:14pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

When the public finds out about the directives that came down from above, the non-engagement orders and such… when the public starts hearing more about how we are NOT trying to win that war, one way or another… it’s going to hurt Obama.

122 Irenicum  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:21pm

re: #104 Charles

2 tera byte HD? Oy, we are living in scifi.

123 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:33pm

re: #110 WindUpBird

I’m guessing anyone with presidential aspirations is going to be guided by those aspirations far more than who they pulled the lever for two years ago.

OK - I’ll bite. What evidence is there that he has presidential aspirations?

124 karmic_inquisitor  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:35pm

McChrystal was never right for the job and is an f up. Straight up. The war has been set back because of him. But you can bet that Rolling Stone went out to get his scalp and got help from Army Officers who wanted McChrystal pushed off the cliff while still getting some grievances aired. Win-Win for any general officers who wanted McChrystal out.

125 tnguitarist  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:39pm

re: #11 Montaigne’s Cat

Better that the criticized civilians submit their resignation.

You’re right! Anyone that gets criticized should resign because the person criticizing is right 100% of the time. Therefore, I’m going to criticize you now. I’ll expect your resignation from this blog shortly.

126 blueraven  Jun 22, 2010 3:07:44pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

And you don’t think Obama is justified if he removes the good General?

127 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:08:15pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

When the public finds out about the directives that came down from above, the non-engagement orders and such… when the public starts hearing more about how we are NOT trying to win that war, one way or another… it’s going to hurt Obama.

What “non-engagement orders”? Isn’t there a surge on?

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 3:08:30pm

re: #123 Casual Talker

OK - I’ll bite. What evidence is there that he has presidential aspirations?

Read Killgore’s posts. It’s not EVIDENCE, it’s just, behavior, ya know?

129 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:08:35pm

re: #113 Soap_Man

Then that’s his burden to carry. He has to know that what he did and said would make him look bad to some people.

Rolling Stone didn’t put a gun to his head.

yup, that is my problem with him… wtf was he thinking?

130 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:08:50pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Well, his article was a high profile “fuck you” to Obama. It wasn’t a mistake he knew what he was doing. I assume he might have political aspirations. Wingnuts will instantly love and defend anyone who publicly insults or embarrasses the President so I think that might have been his motivation.

pretty cynical…I can’t take you too serious

131 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:08:58pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

Read Killgore’s posts. It’s not EVIDENCE, it’s just, behavior, ya know?

Yeah, it’s just speculation.

132 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:01pm

re: #115 WindUpBird

If you were president, would YOU let him continue to say those things in print and continue to serve? ;-)

No… especially if they are true!

133 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:16pm

re: #115 WindUpBird

If you were president, would YOU let him continue to say those things in print and continue to serve? ;-)

No. But I still think his mocking of Obama makes Obama look bad, though I freely admit this is in part because I want Obama to look bad for political reasons.

134 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:17pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Well, his article was a high profile “fuck you” to Obama. It wasn’t a mistake he knew what he was doing. I assume he might have political aspirations. Wingnuts will instantly love and defend anyone who publicly insults or embarrasses the President so I think that might have been his motivation.

Doesn’t that require an awful lot of psychological insight into the man to assume this is all about getting into elected office?

135 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:22pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

To you and I, Obama will look bad. To Obama’s supporters, he will be seen as justified in removing a hostile general.

I’m obviously not an Obama supporter but he has to shit can the general. I’m finding it mildly amusing that some on the left who were screaming “listen to the generals!” are now coming out on the other side of the argument.

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:28pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

No… especially if they are true!

lol

137 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:42pm

Wingnuts are already trying to spin the article as fake, pointing to the unnamed aides as proof that the story must be made up.

138 Curt  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:50pm

re: #50 Irenicum

re: #96 Casual Talker

Well, it sounds like he and the civ. leaders are not seeing eye to eye on what to do in Afghanistan, so maybe it’s for the best that they get a commander in there that can work better with the diplomats.

Bottom line: If the C-in-C still fails to deliver a coherent strategic plan, no matter who is there, there will be in an un-winnable situation.

If they get in, and see “better to ask for forgiveness” method out of a lack of direction, they will be hammered.

If they get in an sit on their hands, claiming no one supports them, they will get hammered, but a little later on.

The C-in-C, no matter who they are, or what time they will serve in, need to take a war fighting issue seriously, as it is our blood and treasure and future being pi$$ed away if they do not.

That’s the model of civilian leadership of the military, and the civilian leadership has a responsibility to handle their part of the equation.

139 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:09:57pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

When the public finds out about the directives that came down from above, the non-engagement orders and such… when the public starts hearing more about how we are NOT trying to win that war, one way or another… it’s going to hurt Obama.

Agreed.

140 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:10:00pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

When the public finds out about the directives that came down from above, the non-engagement orders and such… when the public starts hearing more about how we are NOT trying to win that war, one way or another… it’s going to hurt Obama.

exactly….Bill is gonna sing like a bird, and why shouldn’t he?…people are dying

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Jun 22, 2010 3:10:04pm

re: #134 Casual Talker

Doesn’t that require an awful lot of psychological insight into the man to assume this is all about getting into elected office?

I think you’re taking this mental exercise a little too seriously ;-)

142 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:10:20pm

You know what? Fuck this shit. McChrystal shouldn’t resign, and he shouldn’t be forced to resign. He should apologize for being a dick, spend three days doing KP and push-ups, then get his ass back to work doing what he was tasked with doing, which is fighting a counter insurgency so the US can some day get the fuck out of Afghanistan. Enough of this getting one’s panties in a twist and playing it out in the media. The guy’s supposed to be a fucking soldier…he should act like one. Follow.The.Fucking.Orders. Period. And fuck the media for getting a big hard on over this and treating it like yet another fucking Waterloo. We’re not Napolean.

(And why does it take a goddamn pacifist like me to say this?)
/rant off.

143 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:10:21pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

When the public finds out about the directives that came down from above, the non-engagement orders and such… when the public starts hearing more about how we are NOT trying to win that war, one way or another… it’s going to hurt Obama.

And McChrystal.

144 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:10:41pm

re: #97 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, this could all have been predicted. McChrystal instituted some bizarre and counterproductive rules of engagement in Afghanistan and there are many in his chain of command who will be happy to see him go - no doubt many helped the RS with “research.” Yet they probably are wondering what will replace him, because the Obama admin has cocked up Afghanistan in a great many ways - like coming out against Karzai in an election which he ended up winning. What was the sense in that? What was the upside in that?

I think that this was intentional because they knew that Karzai would win and wanted to help give him some legitimacy with his own people. By opposing him they made him more sympathetic inside Afghanistan.

145 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:11:11pm

re: #118 albusteve

they are partying like it’s 1985…they won this one

/who needs an Air Force when you got the Rolling Stone :)

146 blueraven  Jun 22, 2010 3:11:18pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

No. But I still think his mocking of Obama makes Obama look bad, though I freely admit this is in part because I want Obama to look bad for political reasons.

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

147 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:11:48pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

I think you’re taking this mental exercise a little too seriously ;-)

Ahh… it was a joke. Ok. ;)

148 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 3:12:01pm

re: #128 WindUpBird
I’m not sure at this point- The big RS flounce sets him up for book deals, or a column at any of several web sites or think tanks. Or politics of course. Hmm, pundit or politician? They’d love to have him at the American Enterprise Institute for example.
Heck, he could just walk away and fish.
This will need a bit of time to suss out.

149 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:12:13pm

re: #146 blueraven

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

Lol.

150 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:12:19pm

re: #142 darthstar

You know what? Fuck this shit. McChrystal shouldn’t resign, and he shouldn’t be forced to resign. He should apologize for being a dick, spend three days doing KP and push-ups, then get his ass back to work doing what he was tasked with doing, which is fighting a counter insurgency so the US can some day get the fuck out of Afghanistan. Enough of this getting one’s panties in a twist and playing it out in the media. The guy’s supposed to be a fucking soldier…he should act like one. Follow.The.Fucking.Orders. Period. And fuck the media for getting a big hard on over this and treating it like yet another fucking Waterloo. We’re not Napolean.

(And why does it take a goddamn pacifist like me to say this?)
/rant off.

you have my vote as thread winner.

151 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:12:22pm

re: #134 Casual Talker

Doesn’t that require an awful lot of psychological insight into the man to assume this is all about getting into elected office?

wouldn’t winning the fight be a simpler, more honest route to public office?

152 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 3:13:01pm

Was McChrystal directly criticizing the Afghanistan War plans, that he helped to shape?

153 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:13:04pm

re: #142 darthstar

You know what? Fuck this shit. McChrystal shouldn’t resign, and he shouldn’t be forced to resign. He should apologize for being a dick, spend three days doing KP and push-ups, then get his ass back to work doing what he was tasked with doing, which is fighting a counter insurgency so the US can some day get the fuck out of Afghanistan. Enough of this getting one’s panties in a twist and playing it out in the media. The guy’s supposed to be a fucking soldier…he should act like one. Follow.The.Fucking.Orders. Period. And fuck the media for getting a big hard on over this and treating it like yet another fucking Waterloo. We’re not Napolean.

(And why does it take a goddamn pacifist like me to say this?)
/rant off.

Finlay, a rant I can get on board with.

154 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 3:13:28pm

re: #146 blueraven

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

It’s possible that DF thinks a different sort of politics would be better for the country, I don’t know that, just saying it’s possible.

In which case - he is putting “country” front and center.

155 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:13:34pm

re: #145 brookly red

/who needs an Air Force when you got the Rolling Stone :)

when will the Talis make the cover?…6 months?

156 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:13:37pm

re: #129 brookly red

yup, that is my problem with him… wtf was he thinking?

He was thinking something. Every 2-star and above (and most E-4s) knows you don’t do this.

157 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:14:23pm

re: #104 Charles

By the way, if anyone needs a very large external hard drive for backups, video, etc., here’s a great deal on the Western Digital WD Elements 2 TB USB 2.0 Drive, for $133.99 with free shipping. For a 2TB WD drive and powered USB enclosure, that’s real cheap. I’m going to use one for a Time Machine backup, because my 1TB backup drive has gotten too small since I started converting DVDs to movie files.

I remember waiting in line at a computer chain store at midnight when windows98 came out because they had a 100mb HD for $98.

158 karmic_inquisitor  Jun 22, 2010 3:14:26pm

Anyone who thinks that McChrystal and his staff were just speaking freely unaware of the consequences with a Rolling Stone reporter doesn’t understand PR.

The whole idea of “speaking on background” is one where the reporter gets some context without being allowed (by gentleman’s agreement) to report the specifics. So when you go on background you shape the whole picture, often in colorful language.

Here is the thing about “on background” - a reporter will screw you over and report what you said was on background if the reporter sees no need to use you or have access to you in the future. So if you go on background, you HAVE to keep in mind that you can’t let rip anything that will cost you your position outright and make you irrelevant. If the reporter is doing a hit piece and expects you to go down as a result with no access to power afterward (which is what happens if you get fired from government) then he/she will screw you for the scoop.

That is what happened here.

159 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:14:43pm
160 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:14:50pm

re: #155 albusteve

when will the Talis make the cover?…6 months?

When their next album goes platinum.

161 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:15:01pm

re: #142 darthstar

You know what? Fuck this shit. McChrystal shouldn’t resign, and he shouldn’t be forced to resign. He should apologize for being a dick, spend three days doing KP and push-ups, then get his ass back to work doing what he was tasked with doing, which is fighting a counter insurgency so the US can some day get the fuck out of Afghanistan. Enough of this getting one’s panties in a twist and playing it out in the media. The guy’s supposed to be a fucking soldier…he should act like one. Follow.The.Fucking.Orders. Period. And fuck the media for getting a big hard on over this and treating it like yet another fucking Waterloo. We’re not Napolean.

(And why does it take a goddamn pacifist like me to say this?)
/rant off.

Because you are a partisan par excellence… and you would even forgo your pacifist beliefs than even entertain the idea that Obama may have screwed the pooch on his strategy in Afghanistan.

Oh… your question was rhetorical… I’m sorry… well, ok… my answer was rethorical.

162 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 3:15:25pm

re: #146 blueraven

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

I love it when dem libs wrap themselves in the partisan flag.

163 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:15:30pm

re: #146 blueraven

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

No, I did not. McChrystal has to go, because what he said cannot be permitted while in uniform. But having said that, I’m all in favor of using those words as a club to hammer Obama with. I’m convinced that Barack Obama is a poor wartime leader and in 2012 I want him replaced. It’s political, true, but I am keeping the needs of the nation first in my mind.

164 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:15:44pm

re: #150 brookly red

re: #153 Bagua

Thank you, gentlemen. Seriously…how are we supposed to expect the world to take us seriously if every fucking time we turn around everyone’s got their TV tuned into Surivor: DC - Will the general get voted off the island? Stay tuned! But first, a word from our sponsor, BP.

165 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:15:59pm

re: #155 albusteve

when will the Talis make the cover?…6 months?

/their album is selling well in Europe…

166 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:08pm

re: #162 Spare O’Lake

I love it when dem Dim libs wrap themselves in the partisan flag.

Fixed.

167 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:15pm

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

I agree with you, because Obama will be guided in this matter solely by what is to his OWN political advantage. Firing McChrystal is certainly not a move which is clearly in Obama’s political interests.

Considering the incredibly polished political game that McChrystal played in the run up to the surge I have a very tough time accepting his “aw shucks damn me and my big mouth” reaction to this kerfuffle.

He’s throwing in a lot of chips on a semi-bluff. If he gets called he’s out as general and would be a hero on the right. If he makes the president back down, well, lots of better generals have tried and failed at that.

168 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:39pm

re: #165 brookly red

/their album is selling well in Europe…

GMTA

169 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:42pm

re: #146 blueraven

You put politics ahead of country DF. I am disappointed to hear that.

He didn’t say “I want us to lose the war so Obama would look bad.” It was more of a “I am happy every time Obama gets some egg on his face because I don’t think he should be the guy in charge for another four years.”

170 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:50pm

re: #159 Bagua

More insubordination?

Federal judge blocks drilling moratorium in Gulf

That’s very good news.

171 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:16:52pm

re: #158 karmic_inquisitor

I agree with your remarks in general about background etc, but this doesn’t look like anyone at RS was trying to ‘get’ him. He and his aides appear to have done it to themselves, for whatever reason.

172 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:17:17pm

re: #164 darthstar

re: #153 Bagua

Thank you, gentlemen. Seriously…how are we supposed to expect the world to take us seriously if every fucking time we turn around everyone’s got their TV tuned into Surivor: DC - Will the general get voted off the island? Stay tuned! But first, a word from our sponsor, BP.

Dang! I had you all wrong & I take back most of the bad things I said about you :)

173 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:17:49pm

re: #169 Soap_Man

He didn’t say “I want us to lose the war so Obama would look bad.” It was more of a “I am happy every time Obama gets some egg on his face because I don’t think he should be the guy in charge for another four years.”

Thank you, Soap. That was indeed what I was trying to say.

174 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:17:58pm

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

Here…go whack your socks off.

175 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:11pm

re: #159 Bagua

More insubordination?

Federal judge blocks drilling moratorium in Gulf

With some financial ties to the drilling industry.

How doesn’t the president have the ability to regulate interstate commerce, exactly?

176 Shared Humanity  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:22pm

Pretty solid precedent that when a millitary leader publicly disagrees with policy then they have to go.

177 simoom  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:37pm

re: #12 Soap_Man

If that’s true, than why apologize for it?

I’m guessing they didn’t do their homework on Rolling Stone and consequently didn’t realize what sort of article was being written. Also I doubt McChrystal had any idea as to how far his team was pushing things on-the-record.

A lot of it wasn’t exactly policy critiques. I’d imagine he’s apologized because he’s embarrassed by the published childish swipes (VP Biden nicknamed “bite-me”, Holbrooke as “a wounded animal”, Jim Jones as “a clown … stuck in 1985”, having to share a table with a French Minister at a NATO dinner as “fucking gay”, etc) and he understands the media & political shitstorm he’s dredged up is extremely unhelpful to the war effort.

178 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:38pm

re: #134 Casual Talker

Doesn’t that require an awful lot of psychological insight into the man to assume this is all about getting into elected office?

Not really. It’s a pretty bizarre thing to do. He had a reason for doing this interview. It’s very rare for generals to do something like this and it’s a serious breech of protocol.

179 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:42pm

re: #172 brookly red

Dang! I had you all wrong & I take back most of the bad things I said about you :)

Don’t do that…you’ll spoil me.

180 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:50pm

re: #174 darthstar

Here…go whack your socks off.

Eww, wtf is wrong with you man?

181 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:54pm

re: #174 darthstar

Here…go whack your socks off.

MY EYES!!!

182 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 3:18:58pm

re: #142 darthstar

Agreed. Don’t worry, though, Obama doesn’t have the balls to accept his resignation even if he wanted to, because it wouldn’t be smart politics.

183 Macha  Jun 22, 2010 3:19:16pm

I think he was aware of what he was saying to RS. He has been in the military too long and in too many political hot spots to not to know. However, he has always pushed the limits, apparently coming out like a rose in some pretty smelly situations. Perhaps he misjudged this one? He isn’t a team player, except when he is leading his own handpicked team out in the bush. He is going to appeal to the loony-toons out there, I have no doubt. I would be willing to bet that he has been approached by some of them already and having the ego he does, will throw in with one of them before long.

184 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:19:22pm

re: #180 RogueOne

Eww, wtf is wrong with you man?

Just feeding Walter’s obsession.

185 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:19:30pm

re: #164 darthstar

re: #153 Bagua

Thank you, gentlemen. Seriously…how are we supposed to expect the world to take us seriously if every fucking time we turn around everyone’s got their TV tuned into Surivor: DC - Will the general get voted off the island? Stay tuned! But first, a word from our sponsor, BP.

The problem is that modern politics is a personality parade, a version of American Idol. The focus is always on the personal squabbles, whom one likes or dislikes and what they think of each other. Issues and policy take a back seat to all this nonsense. Gossip sells the newspapers.

186 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:19:37pm

re: #179 darthstar

Don’t do that…you’ll spoil me.

I said most…

187 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #176 Shared Humanity

Pretty solid precedent that when a millitary leader publicly disagrees with policy then they have to go.

He should have resigned before he opened his mouth.

188 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:20:05pm

re: #174 darthstar

Here…go whack your socks off.

Get out of my head Darth!

///////////////// (seriously, I couldn’t include enough “/”s here)

189 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 3:20:29pm

Okay…gotta go have a follow-up meeting with the boss…this McChrystal shit’s got me riled up…maybe a cup of coffee to calm me down first.

Back in a while…maybe.

190 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:20:55pm

re: #185 Bagua

The problem is that modern politics is a personality parade, a version of American Idol. The focus is always on the personal squabbles, whom one likes or dislikes and what they think of each other. Issues and policy take a back seat to all this nonsense. Gossip sells the newspapers.

I don’t think anything sells newspapers these days.

191 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:03pm

re: #174 darthstar

Here…go whack your socks off.

Is that the picture you use? I have to hand it to you, it’s hotter than the one I use.

192 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:10pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

Not really. It’s a pretty bizarre thing to do. He had a reason for doing this interview. It’s very rare for generals to do something like this and it’s a serious breech of protocol.

He pulled a modern day Patton. I’ll say one thing, McChrystal ain’t no Patton. Anyway, Patton’s opinionating go him into trouble before he was “reassigned” and continued up to his death.

193 blueraven  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

No, I did not. McChrystal has to go, because what he said cannot be permitted while in uniform. But having said that, I’m all in favor of using those words as a club to hammer Obama with. I’m convinced that Barack Obama is a poor wartime leader and in 2012 I want him replaced. It’s political, true, but I am keeping the needs of the nation first in my mind.

Then vote him out DF. But playing politics with military command is the same crap that Move On tried to pull with Bush. I was against it then, and I am against it now.

194 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:22pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

That’s very good news.

I don’t see how they can over-rule the president on this. Regardless a couple rule changes could effectively shut everything down, and if the ban holds while this is being appealed then the effect will be the same.

195 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:32pm

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

Agreed. Don’t worry, though, Obama doesn’t have the balls to accept his resignation even if he wanted to, because it wouldn’t be smart politics.

/oh gawd… If he appoints Hillary as War Czar this could get ugly.

196 Shared Humanity  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:45pm

Just because we may have killed the gulf due to dramatic reductions in deepwater oxygen levels that could take decades to recover, this does not mean that drilling should not continue. We have to treat this catastrophe as “sunk cost” and make future decisions as if it had not happened.

197 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:21:57pm

re: #184 darthstar

Just feeding Walter’s obsession.

I didn’t mention Pelosi anywhere in this thread, or even today, you tripping or something?

198 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:22:23pm

BO has accomplished nothing in 18 months over there….he waited six months to insert a measly 30k troops while the Talis recruited and dug in…the surge didn’t happen and in a few short months the fighting will grind to a halt for the winter again…meanwhile our troops are getting wacked and our allies are pulling out…the whole thing stinks…now the numba 1 guy slaps the CinC silly and walks away…BO has a lot to explain, it’s the fight he wanted all along….measure the results and where we stand now…I see no reason to stay until next summer…BO handed this one to the bad guys, while our kids died…should I respect BO?….should I stand behind the president?….not me

199 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:22:30pm

re: #175 dugmartsch

With some financial ties to the drilling industry.

How doesn’t the president have the ability to regulate interstate commerce, exactly?

That is my question as well.

200 rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 3:22:46pm

re: #174 darthstar

Here…go whack your socks off.

If I ever have to go on a long trip away from my wife, I’ll keep that picture in my wallet. As a sure cure for any sexual temptation that comes up. Yeow. Until I saw that image I never needed viagra. Now, not so sure. //

201 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:22:53pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

Not really. It’s a pretty bizarre thing to do. He had a reason for doing this interview. It’s very rare for generals to do something like this and it’s a serious breech of protocol.

Smart guys don’t get this stupid in their fields of expertise.

It’d be like Kasparov opening pawn to rook four. Something does not add up.

202 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:23:02pm

re: #171 iceweasel

I agree with your remarks in general about background etc, but this doesn’t look like anyone at RS was trying to ‘get’ him. He and his aides appear to have done it to themselves, for whatever reason.

we are losing the fight, that’s the reason

203 Soap_Man  Jun 22, 2010 3:23:06pm

re: #193 blueraven

Then vote him out DF. But playing politics with military command is the same crap that Move On tried to pull with Bush. I was against it then, and I am against it now.

Oh yeah. General Betray-us. They were so fucking clever.

204 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:23:31pm

re: #196 Shared Humanity

Just because we may have killed the gulf due to dramatic reductions in deepwater oxygen levels that could take decades to recover, this does not mean that drilling should not continue. We have to treat this catastrophe as “sunk cost” and make future decisions as if it had not happened.

That reads pretty much the same whether it’s sarcasm or not.

205 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:23:31pm

re: #190 Soap_Man

I don’t think anything sells newspapers these days.

I should have included TV which is the big market now.

206 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:24:15pm

re: #193 blueraven

Then vote him out DF. But playing politics with military command is the same crap that Move On tried to pull with Bush. I was against it then, and I am against it now.

The military and politics go hand in hand… always have, always will… it’s part and parcel of the same game. You think people join up and put a gun in their hands and go off shooting people in the head for altruistic reasons? What kind of unicorn fantasy are you on?

207 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 3:24:46pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

Not really. It’s a pretty bizarre thing to do. He had a reason for doing this interview. It’s very rare for generals to do something like this and it’s a serious breech of protocol.

I agree with you an the protocol - however to suggest that he’s a closet Manchurian Tea-Partier requires a ton of insight that isn’t readily apparent. That’s an awfully far leap to take IMO.

208 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:24:57pm

re: #198 albusteve

BO has accomplished nothing in 18 months over there…he waited six months to insert a measly 30k troops while the Talis recruited and dug in…the surge didn’t happen and in a few short months the fighting will grind to a halt for the winter again…meanwhile our troops are getting wacked and our allies are pulling out…the whole thing stinks…now the numba 1 guy slaps the CinC silly and walks away…BO has a lot to explain, it’s the fight he wanted all along…measure the results and where we stand now…I see no reason to stay until next summer…BO handed this one to the bad guys, while our kids died…should I respect BO?…should I stand behind the president?…not me

Good points, all.

209 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:25:35pm

re: #208 Bagua

Good points, all.

Yeah, good points if one ignores the history.

210 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:26:19pm

re: #209 Gus 802

Yeah, good points if one ignores the history.

Which history?

211 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:27:03pm

re: #210 Bagua

Which history?

The one that started on October 7, 2001.

212 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:27:13pm

re: #61 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Patton was nuttier than a fruitcake. Man wanted to rearm the Nazis, turn them around, and sic ‘em on the Soviets. The man decided that there hadn’t been enough bloodshed yet and he wanted to get WWIII going while the fires of WWII were still smoldering.

He was also exactly what was needed to defeat the Nazis. Patton is a perfect example of why the civilian leadership needs to maintain tight control over the generals.

213 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:27:17pm

re: #208 Bagua

You’re saying an extra 30,000 troops is insignificant?

214 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:27:27pm

re: #198 albusteve

the jury is still out as to if winning hearts & minds works better than just shooting them.

215 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:27:35pm

Rolls eyes.

216 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:28:18pm

re: #213 Amory Blaine

Sorry meant to ask of #198

217 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:28:37pm

re: #198 albusteve

BO has accomplished nothing in 18 months over there…he waited six months to insert a measly 30k troops while the Talis recruited and dug in…the surge didn’t happen and in a few short months the fighting will grind to a halt for the winter again…meanwhile our troops are getting wacked and our allies are pulling out…the whole thing stinks…now the numba 1 guy slaps the CinC silly and walks away…BO has a lot to explain, it’s the fight he wanted all along…measure the results and where we stand now…I see no reason to stay until next summer…BO handed this one to the bad guys, while our kids died…should I respect BO?…should I stand behind the president?…not me

We handed the fight to the Taliban in ‘01 when we sunk ourselves into a war we couldn’t win and that wouldn’t return any benefits even if we’d miracuously “won.”

In voting for Obama this was my largest policy disagreement with him, that he wanted to double down on the Afghan war when the only winning move was to build a time machine and convinces ourselves not to have begun it.

218 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 3:29:10pm

re: #213 Amory Blaine

You’re saying an extra 30,000 troops is insignificant?

It was way less than the military requested, IIRC.

219 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:29:43pm

re: #206 Walter L. Newton

Just noticed the new avatar pic. The profile shot reminded me a bit of this guy:


Chipps Cooney: Illusionist

Youtube Video

220 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:29:52pm

It is impossible to win a war in Afghanistan, period. And parenthetically, this isn’t a war, it is an occupation.

You would think we had learned that by now, but apparently not.

221 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:29:56pm

re: #209 Gus 802

Yeah, good points if one ignores the history.

history is a kid that gets vaporized by an IED the Talis planted last year on BOs dime…that kid is history, I get history

222 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:29:56pm

re: #211 Gus 802

The one that started on October 7, 2001.

Oh right, sorry. Yes, Bush started the intervention in Afghanistan.

But Obama is commander in chief now.

223 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:30:10pm

Afghanistan is more secure now then it ever was prior to the start of military activities there. If I were to come up with a sound bite for the long term strategy there is would be the future of Afghanistan lies with the Afghani people and their own military not the USA. At this point the Taliban have an unlimited number of manpower available to them from throughout the region if not the world.

224 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:30:18pm

re: #213 Amory Blaine

You’re saying an extra 30,000 troops is insignificant?

I am

225 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:30:56pm

re: #213 Amory Blaine

You’re saying an extra 30,000 troops is insignificant?

I did not say that.

226 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:31:04pm

re: #222 Bagua

Oh right, sorry. Yes, Bush started the intervention in Afghanistan.

But Obama is commander in chief now.

Yes, but it you want to lay blame on one president that doesn’t make any sense if you don’t include the damn history and come up with a limp conclusion that “all is lost” and that it’s all Obama’s fault.

227 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:31:14pm

re: #212 Fozzie Bear

He was also exactly what was needed to defeat the Nazis. Patton is a perfect example of why the civilian leadership needs to maintain tight control over the generals.

Patton was an example of what happens when you give a certifiable lunatic some stars, an objective, and no bureaucratic BS to worry about. He was an ass-kicker during war, but a diplomatic nightmare after it. Had he not expired by accident, it’s probable that, like MacArthur, he’d have been forced to retire in disgrace for daring to snap at his master.

228 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:31:39pm

The soviets had alot more than we did in Afghanistan.

The place is ungovernable. This is a fool’s errand.

229 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:32:16pm

re: #218 Spare O’Lake

It was way less than the military requested, IIRC.

Something that mattered when it was Shinseki saying we needed more troops in Iraq and getting the boot for it, but now something that’s a sign of a bad general. Go figure.

230 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:32:25pm

re: #226 Gus 802

Yes, but it you want to lay blame on one president that doesn’t make any sense if you don’t include the damn history and come up with a limp conclusion that “all is lost” and that it’s all Obama’s fault.

Yeah i don’t understand.

One President had 7 years. One had about 18 months.

Yet this failure is completely at the feet of BO.

Nonsensical.

231 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:32:32pm

re: #211 Gus 802

The one that started on October 7, 2001.

Yep. The anti-idiotarian down dings this post.

I repeat.

The history that started in October 7, 2001.

This is like arguing with creationists.

232 webevintage  Jun 22, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #70 Spare O’Lake

I think Obama’s track record indicates that he tosses folks he appointed under the bus if he sees it as a political win for himself.

Hmmmm, I wonder what Harry Truman would do?

233 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:10pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

It is impossible to win a war in Afghanistan, period. And parenthetically, this isn’t a war, it is an occupation.

You would think we had learned that by now, but apparently not.

it kinda depends on what the word win means…

I am just kinda freaked out that there were what? 52 shootings in Chicago this weekend & like what? 8 to 10 in all of Afghanistan.

234 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:14pm

re: #210 Bagua

To answer your question about restrictive rule of engagement that you asked me about above…

“One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?””

This is the kind of policy that Mac was dealing with. I suspect he had enough.

hopeisnotaforeignpolicy.org

235 What, me worry?  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:18pm
Updated at 1:41 p.m.] Waheed Omar, spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai, said U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal is the best commander for the war in Afghanistan and hopes Obama does not replace him. Karzai and his team believe McChrystal is a man of strong integrity who has a strong understanding of the Afghan people and their culture, Omar said.

McChrystal was heard remarking, “Dude, keep a lid on it. I’m in enough trouble already.”

236 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:26pm

re: #231 Gus 802

Yep. The anti-idiotarian down dings this post.

I repeat.

The history that started in October 7, 2001.

This is like arguing with creationists.

The batle for Afghanistan is only 18 months old. Your carbon dating means shit to me.

237 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:44pm

re: #230 dugmartsch

Yeah i don’t understand.

One President had 7 years. One had about 18 months.

Yet this failure is completely at the feet of BO.

Nonsensical.

Akin to ignoring FDR and focusing on Truman for WWII.

238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:51pm

I’m trying to remember the name of the General that Bush fired… anybody know who I’m talking about? Driving me nuts…

Tried to google “General fired by Bush” about 60 quintillion hits…

239 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:33:54pm

re: #211 Gus 802

The one that started on October 7, 2001.

People might want to check how many troops we had there when Bush left office, and how many more we have now under Obama.

I know. People will still pretend Obama is somehow less serious about it than Bush.

240 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:34:01pm

re: #217 dugmartsch

We handed the fight to the Taliban in ‘01 when we sunk ourselves into a war we couldn’t win and that wouldn’t return any benefits even if we’d miracuously “won.”

In voting for Obama this was my largest policy disagreement with him, that he wanted to double down on the Afghan war when the only winning move was to build a time machine and convinces ourselves not to have begun it.

Horseshit. After 9/11, we had to run the Taliban out of power. If we had not done so, we would have looked intolerably weak.

241 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 3:34:29pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

It is impossible to win a war in Afghanistan, period. And parenthetically, this isn’t a war, it is an occupation.

You would think we had learned that by now, but apparently not.

That defeatist attitude, which has been all too commonplace in America ever since Viet Nam, is a cancer on the national psyche. Maybe someday America will remember that wars must be fought all-out to win, or not at all.

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 3:34:45pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

Vizzini? That you?

243 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 22, 2010 3:34:50pm

Flouncy General Career Counseling
Why Not Minot?
minot.af.mil

244 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:03pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Horseshit. After 9/11, we had to run the Taliban out of power. If we had not done so, we would have looked intolerably weak.

And that’s where it should have ended.

245 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:08pm

re: #230 dugmartsch

Yeah i don’t understand.

One President had 7 years. One had about 18 months.

Yet this failure is completely at the feet of BO.

Nonsensical.

we are leaving next summer…we have 1 year by BOs timetable to rid the country of the Talis….a very bad joke on the kids that gave their lives for this folly…you want to make Bush part of the problem go for it, but history has already proven you wrong

246 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:08pm

re: #239 iceweasel

People might want to check how many troops we had there when Bush left office, and how many more we have now under Obama.

I know. People will still pretend Obama is somehow less serious about it than Bush.

Correct.

247 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:14pm

re: #226 Gus 802

Yes, but it you want to lay blame on one president that doesn’t make any sense if you don’t include the damn history and come up with a limp conclusion that “all is lost” and that it’s all Obama’s fault.

I judge Obama for what he does and Bush for what he has done. Both ignored a 300 year history of civil war to fight an winnable war.

Obama doesn’t get a pass for his mistakes in escalating the war because he didn’t start it, he’s the President now.

248 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:32pm

re: #219 RogueOne

Just noticed the new avatar pic. The profile shot reminded me a bit of this guy:

Chipps Cooney: Illusionist


[Video]

Ok… that’s insulting… and I am a professional magician… as soon as I saw that idiot wearing a cape, I turned it off… really… what a fucking jerk… I didn’t even find out if he “has talent” cause he has no sense of style.

249 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:35:45pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m trying to remember the name of the General that Bush fired… anybody know who I’m talking about? Driving me nuts…

Tried to google “General fired by Bush” about 60 quintillion hits…

GEN Shinseki was eased out, none too gently.

250 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:36:13pm

re: #247 Bagua

I judge Obama for what he does and Bush for what he has done. Both ignored a 300 year history of civil war to fight an winnable war.

Obama doesn’t get a pass for his mistakes in escalating the war because he didn’t start it, he’s the President now.

The question then becomes is it working as a whole or not?

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 3:36:16pm

re: #249 Decatur Deb

That’s it! Thanks!

252 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:36:27pm

re: #241 Spare O’Lake

That defeatist attitude, which has been all too commonplace in America ever since Viet Nam, is a cancer on the national psyche. Maybe someday America will remember that wars must be fought all-out to win, or not at all.

It’s not defeatism, its knowledge of history and geography.

Tell me about the last time an outside force successfully invaded and colonized Afghanistan.

253 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:36:36pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m trying to remember the name of the General that Bush fired… anybody know who I’m talking about? Driving me nuts…

Tried to google “General fired by Bush” about 60 quintillion hits…

It was General Mills after Bush switched to Post products for breakfast.

254 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:36:48pm

re: #236 dugmartsch

The batle for Afghanistan is only 18 months old. Your carbon dating means shit to me.

wea re pulling out next summer…that means shit to me

255 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:37:41pm

re: #252 Fozzie Bear

It’s not defeatism, its knowledge of history and geography.

Tell me about the last time an outside force successfully invaded and colonized Afghanistan.

Like I said previously. The future lies with the Afghani people in the long run just as it did and does with Iraq. Something we learned after Rumfeld was fired. The jury is still out on Iraq.

256 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:37:59pm

re: #239 iceweasel

People might want to check how many troops we had there when Bush left office, and how many more we have now under Obama.

I know. People will still pretend Obama is somehow less serious about it than Bush.

more targets…we are getting our butts kicked over there

257 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 3:38:05pm

The quotes from the article I have read have been mostly sophomoric asshattery from unnamed aides.

258 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:38:21pm

re: #247 Bagua

I judge Obama for what he does and Bush for what he has done. Both ignored a 300 year history of civil war to fight an winnable war.

Obama doesn’t get a pass for his mistakes in escalating the war because he didn’t start it, he’s the President now.

How did Obama ignore 300 year history of civil war to fight a winnable war?

I saw an unwinnable war dumped in his lap.

259 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:38:32pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Horseshit. After 9/11, we had to run the Taliban out of power. If we had not done so, we would have looked intolerably weak.

And how would that have impacted our national interests? That we fought this war for our symbolic pride upsets me deeply. Feel a little meek or kill 5,500 Americans, that’s really something people think seriously about?

260 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:38:41pm

re: #241 Spare O’Lake

That defeatist attitude, which has been all too commonplace in America ever since Viet Nam, is a cancer on the national psyche. Maybe someday America will remember that wars must be fought all-out to win, or not at all.

Right. The same defeatist attitude you display regarding not only the operations in AFPAK but with the CiC.

Yep, defeatist.

261 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:39:04pm

re: #252 Fozzie Bear

It’s not defeatism, its knowledge of history and geography.

Tell me about the last time an outside force successfully invaded and colonized Afghanistan.

Well, with the mineral deposits there, I could see China being able to accomplish the task.

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 3:39:44pm

re: #249 Decatur Deb

When the insurgency took hold in postwar Iraq, Shinseki’s comments and their public rejection by the civilian leadership were often cited by those who felt the Bush administration deployed too few troops to Iraq.[9] On November 15, 2006, in testimony before Congress, CENTCOM Commander Gen. John Abizaid said that General Shinseki had been correct that more troops were needed.

See what happens in Washington with the nonelecteds speak their damn minds?

263 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:39:50pm

re: #258 Amory Blaine

How did Obama ignore 300 year history of civil war to fight a winnable war?

I saw an unwinnable war dumped in his lap.

I’m an Obama fan, but he bought into this one. Hadda be there, I guess.

264 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:39:53pm

re: #250 Gus 802

The question then becomes is it working as a whole or not?

Of course not, it can’t possibly work as the war is being fought. Sending more US troops to serve at targets is a waste of life, reckless and futile. Obama should immediate have the troops retreat to impregnable bases or leave the country. Of course Bush should have done the same thing.

265 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:40:38pm

re: #258 Amory Blaine

How did Obama ignore 300 year history of civil war to fight a winnable war?

I saw an unwinnable war dumped in his lap.

he could have pulled the plug when he was elected…he WANTED this fight, he said so over and over again during his campaign

266 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:40:41pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Well, with the mineral deposits there, I could see China being able to accomplish the task.

Hahahaha, yes true.

Buuuuut… they can afford to sacrifice many lives on a continuing basis to do it. In a democratic republic, you can’t do that for long. Thank God.

267 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:40:52pm

re: #259 dugmartsch

And how would that have impacted our national interests? That we fought this war for our symbolic pride upsets me deeply. Feel a little meek or kill 5,500 Americans, that’s really something people think seriously about?

Having your nation perceived as strong and dangerous to cross is worth the lives of 5,000 people. Because if you are not will to incur losses to prove you are strong, you will lose far more than 5,000 people.

268 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:41:15pm

re: #255 Gus 802

Like I said previously. The future lies with the Afghani people in the long run just as it did and does with Iraq. Something we learned after Rumfeld was fired. The jury is still out on Iraq.

Actually, we learned the exact opposite. Sending in troops to clear an area and then turning it over right away to civilian authorities is a recipe for disaster. The Iraq war turned around when we cleared an area and then kept troops there to keep the peace.

269 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 3:41:27pm

re: #264 Bagua

Of course not, it can’t possibly work as the war is being fought. Sending more US troops to serve at targets is a waste of life, reckless and futile. Obama should immediate have the troops retreat to impregnable bases or leave the country. Of course Bush should have done the same thing.

So McChrystal’s requests fro more troops were the wrong war plan.

270 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:41:29pm

In order to decide winnable we first need to define victory, we could just blow the place to atoms & declare victory… or we could occupy them for for 100 years till they have a McDonald’s on every street. I am guessing the victory lies somewhere between those 2 points.

271 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:41:47pm

re: #258 Amory Blaine

How did Obama ignore 300 year history of civil war to fight a winnable war?

I saw an unwinnable war dumped in his lap.

Ooops, typo, I meant an “unwinnable war” just like you. I don’t blame Obama for inheriting the war, I blame him for sending more men to die needlessly.

272 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:42:05pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Well, with the mineral deposits there, I could see China being able to accomplish the task.

China would have had this fight settled in months, not years…kill everything that moves

273 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2010 3:42:05pm

re: #263 Decatur Deb

I’m an Obama fan, but he bought into this one. Hadda be there, I guess.

IIRC, wasn’t one of the planks of his campaign, a point he hammered home more than once, that Afghanistan was the “forgotten war” or something along those lines, that Bush and the GOP were wrong for “ignoring” it, and that as president he’d see to it that the war was “won”?

274 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:42:21pm

re: #245 albusteve

we are leaving next summer…we have 1 year by BOs timetable to rid the country of the Talis…a very bad joke on the kids that gave their lives for this folly…you want to make Bush part of the problem go for it, but history has already proven you wrong

What was the original mission objective? Kill all the Taliban?

Why? They’re not Al-Queada, they didn’t declare war on us. They’re a thuggish oligarchy in a world full of thuggish oligarchys. 40% of the world is ruled by dictators, i’m not signing up to depose each of them, or really, any of them, with american blood.

275 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:42:31pm

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See what happens in Washington with the nonelecteds speak their damn minds?

GEN Shinseki only said it for public consumption when asked at a congressional hearing. He has carried himself faultlessly since.

276 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:42:41pm

re: #271 Bagua

Ooops, typo, I meant an “unwinnable war” just like you. I don’t blame Obama for inheriting the war, I blame him for sending more men to die needlessly.

This is exactly my sentiment. Obama’s mistake is assuming it can be won at all. I hope he realizes he was wrong sooner than later.

277 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:43:05pm

re: #270 brookly red

In order to decide winnable we first need to define victory, we could just blow the place to atoms & declare victory… or we could occupy them for for 100 years till they have a McDonald’s on every street. I am guessing the victory lies somewhere between those 2 points.

It’s too large of an area for one nation (other than China like DF suggested) to be able to control. Our euro allies don’t have enough troops to put a dent into the number we would need to pull this off. Personally, I think they should focus on the larger population centers for the next decade and hope for the best.

278 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:43:13pm

re: #272 albusteve

China would have had this fight settled in months, not years…kill everything that moves

Yes, they would. But then, we aren’t genocidal maniacs… are we?

279 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:43:48pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Well, with the mineral deposits there, I could see China being able to accomplish the task.

A trillion dollars in mineral desposits is shit in a country as big as Afghanistan.

280 justaminute  Jun 22, 2010 3:43:59pm

Everybody talks about winning in Afghanistan. What does winning there look like? AQ is not there in any numbers. No one seems to know if BL is alive or dead. We have been training troops for along time but they don’t seem to be getting alot done on that front. The Afghan government seems to be corrupt.
The Afghan people probably don’t being killed by those drones either. I think McChrystal knows that this is a no win situation and wants out. I will never believe that he spoke without thinking.

281 abolitionist  Jun 22, 2010 3:44:10pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m trying to remember the name of the General that Bush fired… anybody know who I’m talking about? Driving me nuts…

Tried to google “General fired by Bush” about 60 quintillion hits…

Navy: Former commander fired for lying

Vice Adm. John “Boomer” Stufflebeem was relieved of duty by the chief of naval operations on Friday

?

282 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 3:44:23pm

re: #268 RogueOne

Actually, we learned the exact opposite. Sending in troops to clear an area and then turning it over right away to civilian authorities is a recipe for disaster. The Iraq war turned around when we cleared an area and then kept troops there to keep the peace.

Disagree. The formula that was successful was clearing an area and FUNDING local troops to keep the peace:

online.wsj.com

283 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:44:58pm

re: #273 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

IIRC, wasn’t one of the planks of his campaign, a point he hammered home more than once, that Afghanistan was the “forgotten war” or something along those lines, that Bush and the GOP were wrong for “ignoring” it, and that as president he’d see to it that the war was “won”?

yes, it’s all on record…he USED this war to get elected, now look what he’s done…shameful imo

284 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:45:02pm

Huh. Weren’t people just criticising Obama for not having enough troops there and not taking the war seriously enough?

Now the wingnuts are opposed to having any troops there at all.

The same people who bitched about troops not being deployed quickly enough by Obama in 2009.

Wingnuts are funny. :-)

285 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:45:12pm

re: #271 Bagua

Ooops, typo, I meant an “unwinnable war” just like you. I don’t blame Obama for inheriting the war, I blame him for sending more men to die needlessly.

Well, I think we’re in agreement there. Frankly, this is not a winnable war since in fact it’s not really a traditional war with standing and uniformed armies. This will continue for a very long time and it could mean military operations for the next 100 years or more. It’s up to Afghanistan and the people. Right now many of the Afghani people in the countryside are supporting the Taliban including providing them with cover and food during their operations.

286 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:45:22pm

re: #278 Fozzie Bear

Depends who you ask.

287 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:45:27pm

re: #270 brookly red

In order to decide winnable we first need to define victory, we could just blow the place to atoms & declare victory… or we could occupy them for for 100 years till they have a McDonald’s on every street. I am guessing the victory lies somewhere between those 2 points.

Totally agree here. Victory conditions just don’t exist. It’s not that we can’t win the war, it’s that you need to be a minor diety to figure out if you’ve won or not.

288 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:45:50pm

re: #269 prairiefire

So McChrystal’s requests fro more troops were the wrong war plan.

Absolutely.

Of course he is right militarily if the only intention is to pacify the country for a short time and then withdraw after winning battles. But wrong as it is an unwinnable war and there is no intention of winning. It is obscene to escalate under those circumstances.

289 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:46:01pm

re: #274 dugmartsch

What was the original mission objective? Kill all the Taliban?

Why? They’re not Al-Queada, they didn’t declare war on us. They’re a thuggish oligarchy in a world full of thuggish oligarchys. 40% of the world is ruled by dictators, i’m not signing up to depose each of them, or really, any of them, with american blood.

you’d have to ask BO what the objective is…I have no idea

290 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 3:46:49pm

Aim of the Afghanistan invasion: to drive Al-Quaida out and remove power from the Taliban.

The Al-Quaida connection seems to be broken, but the Taliban have enjoyed a resurgence of power since about 2006-2007 or so.

If we still have as an objective to remove power from the Taliban, we need to send in enough people to do it.

If that’s not doable, or if it’s not something we want to do, we need to be out of there.

As far as I’m concerned, Taliban are an Afghan home-grown problem, and Karzai’s problem, and he should be the one to be taking care of it.

But I’m not in charge.
(nor, for the record, did I do any bitching about the 30,000 troops Obama deployed in 2009 - but a decision needs to be made as to what our objective is or isn’t, and then act accordingly, IMO).

291 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:46:54pm

re: #278 Fozzie Bear

Yes, they would. But then, we aren’t genocidal maniacs… are we?

no, we are martyrs

292 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:46:59pm

re: #284 iceweasel

Huh. Weren’t people just criticising Obama for not having enough troops there and not taking the war seriously enough?

Now the wingnuts are opposed to having any troops there at all.

The same people who bitched about troops not being deployed quickly enough by Obama in 2009.

Wingnuts are funny. :-)

I admit. I do find the call for pulling out to be rather perplexing.

293 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:47:25pm

re: #277 RogueOne

It’s too large of an area for one nation (other than China like DF suggested) to be able to control. Our euro allies don’t have enough troops to put a dent into the number we would need to pull this off. Personally, I think they should focus on the larger population centers for the next decade and hope for the best.

The British occupied India with less troops than we have in Afghanistan now…

294 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:47:27pm

re: #285 Gus 802

Well, I think we’re in agreement there. Frankly, this is not a winnable war since in fact it’s not really a traditional war with standing and uniformed armies. This will continue for a very long time and it could mean military operations for the next 100 years or more. It’s up to Afghanistan and the people. Right now many of the Afghani people in the countryside are supporting the Taliban including providing them with cover and food during their operations.

That’s just your defeatist attitude. /

295 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 3:47:46pm

re: #288 Bagua

Absolutely.

Of course he is right militarily if the only intention is to pacify the country for a short time and then withdraw after winning battles. But wrong as it is an unwinnable war and there is no intention of winning. It is obscene to escalate under those circumstances.

I believe the intention was to defeat the insurgency. That theory can’t be tested until we leave the country.

296 alexknyc  Jun 22, 2010 3:47:52pm

re: #175 dugmartsch

With some financial ties to the drilling industry.

How doesn’t the president have the ability to regulate interstate commerce, exactly?

Because Congress does.

297 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:48:03pm

re: #270 brookly red

In order to decide winnable we first need to define victory, we could just blow the place to atoms & declare victory… or we could occupy them for for 100 years till they have a McDonald’s on every street. I am guessing the victory lies somewhere between those 2 points.

Victory is when the Afghanis hand us the head of the last Taliban for a pack of Marlboros.

298 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:48:08pm

re: #282 ShaunP

Disagree. The formula that was successful was clearing an area and FUNDING local troops to keep the peace:

[Link: online.wsj.com…]

Funding didn’t accomplish squat for years, you can’t turn a screwed up civilian population into an effective fighting force in a short period of time, it takes year. In the meantime it was the US military that was keeping the peace. In the early years the troops would go in, clear, and then move on which allowed the bad guys the opportunity to start the cycle all over again. It only settled down once the strategy shifted to keeping troops in a cleared area. The extra troops in the surge certainly helped but it was a basic change in strategy that won the war.

299 ReamWorks SKG  Jun 22, 2010 3:48:41pm

Well, back in 1993, Colin Powell, who is revered by many, stated publicly that he would refuse to follow orders to integrate the armed forces and allow homosexual soldiers to serve.

He got to keep his job. (Do a google book search to see lots of references: google.com)

(Of course, he’s come around on this issue as of late.)

300 MinisterO  Jun 22, 2010 3:48:44pm

Knowing how the Soviets fared there in the 1980s, why did anybody think a war in Afghanistan was winnable?

301 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:49:03pm

re: #287 dugmartsch

Totally agree here. Victory conditions just don’t exist. It’s not that we can’t win the war, it’s that you need to be a minor diety to figure out if you’ve won or not.

Yeah, exactly. What would victory even look like, realistically?

This is probably one reason why Spencer Ackerman uses the tag LOOOOOOOOOOOONG WAR when he writes about it.

302 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:02pm

re: #290 reine.de.tout

Aim of the Afghanistan invasion: to drive Al-Quaida out and remove power from the Taliban.

The Al-Quaida connection seems to be broken, but the Taliban have enjoyed a resurgence of power since about 2006-2007 or so.

If we still have as an objective to remove power from the Taliban, we need to send in enough people to do it.

If that’s not doable, or if it’s not something we want to do, we need to be out of there.

As far as I’m concerned, Taliban are an Afghan home-grown problem, and Karzai’s problem, and he should be the one to be taking care of it.

But I’m not in charge.
(nor, for the record, did I do any bitching about the 30,000 troops Obama deployed in 2009 - but a decision needs to be made as to what our objective is or isn’t, and then act accordingly, IMO).

Not only is the Taliban a home grown problem in Afghanistan but it’s one that was created by Pakistani intelligence. Thus it extend the warring into Pakistan where many Taliban come from. Yet, we pretend that Pakistan is our ally in this so called war. The same Pakistan that is the belligerent enemy of our alleged number one ally in the region: India.

303 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:02pm

re: #282 ShaunP

Disagree. The formula that was successful was clearing an area and FUNDING local troops to keep the peace:

[Link: online.wsj.com…]

The problem with that approach is much of the money is finding its way into the coffers of the Taliban. You can’t buy your way to peace in a region that has never known peace.

304 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:28pm

re: #284 iceweasel

Huh. Weren’t people just criticising Obama for not having enough troops there and not taking the war seriously enough?

Now the wingnuts are opposed to having any troops there at all.

The same people who bitched about troops not being deployed quickly enough by Obama in 2009.

Wingnuts are funny. :-)

not me…I opposed the 30k troops…but if you cannot see the difference between a piecemeal fight, and a buildup to kill the enemy and occupy his ground, it’s not out fault….pretty weak juice you bring to the debate

305 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:31pm

re: #293 brookly red

The British occupied India with less troops than we have in Afghanistan now…

Heh, and utterly failed to defeat the Pashtuns in the First, Second and Third Anglo-Afghan Wars.

306 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:45pm

Contrary to popular belief (ie defeatist media memes) Afghanistan is not ungovernable. The monarchy did a pretty fair job of keeping order and, in particular, of keeping international criminals from using the country as a base. This all ended in 1974, when KGB meddlers overthrew King Mohammed Ghazi and started the country down the road to ruin.
The monarchy was not quite up to LA community organizer standards, obviously. Its strength was based on two things: The prestige of the king, and the willingness of his armed forces to dole out collective punishment, usually heavy fines but sometimes worse if the tribals got too defiant.

307 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:52pm

re: #207 Casual Talker

I agree with you an the protocol - however to suggest that he’s a closet Manchurian Tea-Partier requires a ton of insight that isn’t readily apparent. That’s an awfully far leap to take IMO.

Just speculating, there’s nothing outrageous about it. We all wondered about the motivation behind Palin’s strange resignation at the time too. It’s kinda what we do here.

308 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:50:56pm

re: #300 MinisterO

Knowing how the Soviets fared there in the 1980s, why did anybody think a war in Afghanistan was winnable?

Because we’re better than the Soviets at fighting wars.

309 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:51:10pm

re: #294 iceweasel

That’s just your defeatist attitude. /

I was always more fond of realist art. /

310 blueraven  Jun 22, 2010 3:51:14pm

re: #198 albusteve

BO has accomplished nothing in 18 months over there…he waited six months to insert a measly 30k troops while the Talis recruited and dug in…the surge didn’t happen and in a few short months the fighting will grind to a halt for the winter again…meanwhile our troops are getting wacked and our allies are pulling out…the whole thing stinks…now the numba 1 guy slaps the CinC silly and walks away…BO has a lot to explain, it’s the fight he wanted all along…measure the results and where we stand now…I see no reason to stay until next summer…BO handed this one to the bad guys, while our kids died…should I respect BO?…should I stand behind the president?…not me

Bullshit! They have been begging for troops for years in Afghanistan. At least Obama did approve sending troops. If the war is lost there, it is because the Taliban were allowed to come back after Bush proclaimed they were “out of business forever”.

311 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:51:25pm

re: #292 Gus 802

I admit. I do find the call for pulling out to be rather perplexing.

I’ll bet…so what would you do if you were in charge?

312 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:51:31pm

re: #284 iceweasel

Huh. Weren’t people just criticising Obama for not having enough troops there and not taking the war seriously enough?

Now the wingnuts are opposed to having any troops there at all.

The same people who bitched about troops not being deployed quickly enough by Obama in 2009.

Wingnuts are funny. :-)

Liar moonbat. I have been against the escalation from the start.

313 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 3:51:41pm

re: #298 RogueOne

Funding didn’t accomplish squat for years, you can’t turn a screwed up civilian population into an effective fighting force in a short period of time, it takes years</>.

PIMF

314 Jack Burton  Jun 22, 2010 3:52:05pm

re: #252 Fozzie Bear

It’s not defeatism, its knowledge of history and geography.

Tell me about the last time an outside force successfully invaded and colonized Afghanistan.

In 2010 it is completely possible for the US to win the war in Afghanistan in less than an hour and keep the Taliban and terrorists from ever using the place as a base of operations again for the foreseeable future… The method however is unthinkable to all but the most rabid nutbars.

Without some radical outside the box thinking by strategists or the above nightmare scenario you are likely correct in your assumption, but to say it is impossible implies an absolute that is easily proven false.

315 ausador  Jun 22, 2010 3:52:12pm

Is any one else reminded of MacArthur and President Truman? MacArthur just never learned when to shut up either.

316 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:52:56pm

re: #305 Bagua

Heh, and utterly failed to defeat the Pashtuns in the First, Second and Third Anglo-Afghan Wars.

They defeated them, but were unable to do so comprehensively.

317 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:53:39pm

re: #312 Bagua

Sorry, I have to downding you. Iceweasel is not a moonbat.

318 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:53:42pm

re: #300 MinisterO

Knowing how the Soviets fared there in the 1980s, why did anybody think a war in Afghanistan was winnable?

again I ask what is victory? we could destroy the place & say “I won” (sorry I couldn’t help that) or we can nation build till they are the 52nd state. We need to define victory.

319 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:54:13pm

re: #314 ArchangelMichael

In 2010 it is completely possible for the US to win the war in Afghanistan in less than an hour and keep the Taliban and terrorists from ever using the place as a base of operations again for the foreseeable future… The method however is unthinkable to all but the most rabid nutbars.

Without some radical outside the box thinking by strategists or the above nightmare scenario you are likely correct in your assumption, but to say it is impossible implies an absolute that is easily proven false.

So you are saying we should nuke them?

Well, that doesn’t sound at all crazy to me. //

(Not becoming genocidal monsters was assumed. I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions.)

320 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:54:13pm

re: #315 ausador

Is any one else reminded of MacArthur and President Truman? MacArthur just never learned when to shut up either.

He though his prestige would carry him through and that Truman would not dare fire him.

321 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:54:21pm

re: #295 prairiefire

I believe the intention was to defeat the insurgency. That theory can’t be tested until we leave the country.

The insurgency issues from Pakistan which is off limits. Locally it is everywhere and US troops patrol at great risk.

322 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 3:54:28pm

re: #300 MinisterO

Knowing how the Soviets fared there in the 1980s, why did anybody think a war in Afghanistan was winnable?

Don’t forget Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great or “Little Al” as they called him….


vodpod.com

323 Boogberg  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:07pm

Here’s the Rolling Stone article, if anyone is interested:

rollingstone.com

The General likes Bud Light “lime” whatever the fuck that is. Sounds gross.

His favorite movie: Talladega Nights

324 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:13pm

re: #311 albusteve

I’ll bet…so what would you do if you were in charge?

In 30 seconds or less? Let’s see. Expand the growth of the Afghanistan military and economy. That is divert the money from our own military operations towards those two goals.

The way to a nation’s heart is through their wallets. Given the recently announced mineral discoveries they are on a good track for creating a 1st world economy which in the long run could sustain them for years to come.

The Afghanis have to choose whether they want freedom and democracy or to return to a nation run by Taliban war lords. Unless there is a will to fight against the Taliban from within their borders and by their own people this war is lost. It’s up to them.

325 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #312 Bagua

Liar moonbat. I have been against the escalation from the start.

Wait… If you’re taking that personally does that mean you identify as a wingnut, too?

326 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:19pm

I would like to see the option of becoming a state given to Iraq and Afghanistan.

327 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:38pm

re: #312 Bagua

Liar moonbat. I have been against the escalation from the start.

poor bagua. After trying (and failing!) to pick a fight with me earlier, here you go calling me more names again.
Are you planning another foamy series of posts informing me how little you care about what I say and how little I matter to you? I love those!

As before, this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread, regardless of your provocations.

328 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:55:57pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

So you are saying we should nuke them?

Well, that doesn’t sound at all crazy to me. //

(Not becoming genocidal monsters was assumed. I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions.)

He did not say we should nuke them, he said we could nuke them and if we were to do so we would win the war. But that such a victory is not one even most wingnuts would want to have.

329 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 3:56:05pm

re: #303 Fozzie Bear

The problem with that approach is much of the money is finding its way into the coffers of the Taliban. You can’t buy your way to peace in a region that has never known peace.

I can’t argue that, but the post I responded to suggested that we did something that we did not. We imported to Afghanistan a strategy from Iraq that was to pay local militias instead of occupying with our own military force…

330 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:56:23pm

re: #326 Amory Blaine

I would like to see the option of becoming a state given to Iraq and Afghanistan.

A state as in part of the United States?

331 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:56:25pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

They defeated them, but were unable to do so comprehensively.

Her post citing “wingnuts” was an insult directed at me.

332 funky chicken  Jun 22, 2010 3:56:43pm

Fire him. Period. McChrystal is the classic case of a guy who sucks up to the guys above him but treats those below badly. McKiernan, who was fired so McChrystal could have the job, was loved by those who served under him. McChrystal—not so much.

washingtonpost.com

Mullen and Gates hired a back-biter, and now he’s biting them too.

Fire him.

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:00pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

YEAH! SHE’S A FRICKIN’ COMMIE!
/

334 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:07pm

re: #323 Boogberg

He eats only one meal, runs for 8 miles, and sleeps only 4 hours every day.

335 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:07pm

re: #331 Bagua

Her post citing “wingnuts” was an insult directed at me.

just say no

336 Jack Burton  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:11pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

So you are saying we should nuke them?

Well, that doesn’t sound at all crazy to me. //

(Not becoming genocidal monsters was assumed. I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions.)

No I’m not saying that. Perhaps you missed the part about it being an unthinkable nightmare scenario… and the part about nutbars.

I’m just saying that your claim it to be impossible to “win” (depending on wtf your definition of winning this is… but that’s another Pandora’s box) is not held up by facts.

337 dugmartsch  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:15pm

re: #296 alexknyc

Because Congress does.

Which set up regulating bodies and put the power of those bodies in the hands of the executive branch of the government.

338 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 3:57:50pm

re: #330 Walter L. Newton

Yes. I feel many of them are good people who like the concepts of freedom.

339 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 3:58:26pm

re: #325 JasonA

Wait… If you’re taking that personally does that mean you identify as a wingnut, too?

Who else is talking about de-escalation here? If she was not directing that hostile insult at me, then she can make that clear and I’ll retract my comment.

340 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 3:58:47pm

re: #331 Bagua

Her post citing “wingnuts” was an insult directed at me.

I’m not sure about that, but I do ask Ice to explain what she meant and who it was directed to.

341 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 3:58:53pm

re: #334 prairiefire

He eats only one meal, runs for 8 miles, and sleeps only 4 hours every day.

Does he deny women his PBF?

342 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 3:59:12pm

Statehood, huh?

It sounds nuts, and yet, not.

343 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 3:59:37pm

we are getting our asses kicked, by our rigid standards…our ROE are restrictive and our people are not allowed to take it to the Talis because they occupy civilian ground…we are fucked…endless patrols and ambushes…IEDs…all the while the Talis come and go…BO is CinC, so it’s on him and his top guy just insulted him publically and quit the fight….we are outnumbered and out gunned over there….so what is the solution?…if you support this mayhem, say why and provide a solution to the problem

344 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 3:59:39pm

re: #338 Amory Blaine

Yes. I feel many of them are good people who like the concepts of freedom.

Really… don’t do my routine… you’re not anywhere near as good as me… stick to straight comments.

Bullshit.

345 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 3:59:48pm

re: #342 Fozzie Bear

Statehood, huh?

It sounds nuts, and yet, not.

Iraqastan?

346 funky chicken  Jun 22, 2010 3:59:59pm

re: #310 blueraven

Bullshit! They have been begging for troops for years in Afghanistan. At least Obama did approve sending troops. If the war is lost there, it is because the Taliban were allowed to come back after Bush proclaimed they were “out of business forever”.

Read this article about McKiernan and how he was fired. Bush and Obama screwed the pooch in Afghanistan, did and have been for years.

washingtonpost.com

347 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:00:12pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, I have to downding you. Iceweasel is not a moonbat.

really?…what’s a moonbat?

348 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:00:40pm

It obviously would never happen, but would be good I think.

349 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:00:51pm

re: #327 iceweasel

poor bagua. After trying (and failing!) to pick a fight with me earlier, here you go calling me more names again.
Are you planning another foamy series of posts informing me how little you care about what I say and how little I matter to you? I love those!

As before, this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread, regardless of your provocations.


You keep saying you will ignore me Iceweasel, yet you make these little passive-aggressive attacks that fool no one. Make it clear that you were not directing that “wingnut” tripe at me and I’ll be happy to apologise for calling you a moonbat.

350 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:09pm

re: #340 Dark_Falcon

I’m not sure about that, but I do ask Ice to explain what she meant and who it was directed to.

oh please…she means you and I, and others

351 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:16pm

re: #345 Gus 802

Iraqastan?

There’s a little problem of Iran in between those two…. Iraqnistan?

352 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:16pm

re: #324 Gus 802


The Afghanis have to choose whether they want freedom and democracy or to return to a nation run by Taliban war lords. Unless there is a will to fight against the Taliban from within their borders and by their own people this war is lost. It’s up to them.

Not to be rude but that’s a little simplistic. Expecting a civilian population to rise up with pick axes against an aggresssive, well armed, and brutal opposition is asking a bit much. It’s a matter of survival, they’ll follow whoever holds the upper-hand and without the troops to hold an area we just keep contributing to a vicious cycle.

353 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:31pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Not aware of the routine.

354 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:36pm

and with all things being what they are, the events in Iran suggest that we will need a very large presence in both Iraq & Afghanistan for the foreseeable future.

355 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:36pm

re: #340 Dark_Falcon

I’m not sure about that, but I do ask Ice to explain what she meant and who it was directed to.

Sorry DF. Not going to happen. Bagua’s already spent some time trying to pick a fight with me in the thread downstairs. I am not engaging with him, and I don’t think there should be proxies in the piss-fight he is so desperately eager to have.

Sorry Bagua. You can just piss right the fuck off, and accept that I occupy lots more space in your head than you do in mine.

356 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:01:42pm

Here’s my brilliant plan: (Well, I get to call it brilliant)

We’re going to have to take the generational approach. Nothing this messed up can be fixed by three years of occupation and a few buildings. Nope.

We go to Karzai and explain that he’s going to build some schools. Now. Schooling mandatory for everyone under 14. (I’d say 16, but they may not be there yet.) Curriculum will be supplied by us. We get the kids six hours a day. The madrassas can have them for an hour, if they promise not to preach the gospel of blowing thyself up.

The curriculum will be entirely based on logic and enlightened thought, etc.

And, of course, we provide cookies. (This is my plan, after all.) Who doesn’t love the people who give you cookies?

Yeah, I know this looks expensive, but I really don’t see how we can change the place without changing the thinking of the people.

357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:02:19pm

re: #345 Gus 802

Iraqastan?

Iraqnia. State flag’d have a big fuckin’ hairy spider on it.

358 funky chicken  Jun 22, 2010 4:02:32pm
In his first two months on the job, McChrystal has moved with alacrity to shift the focus of U.S. and NATO troops from chasing the Taliban to protecting cities and towns, reasoning that expanding areas of population security would have greater impact on the insurgency than a series of raids. But there is also a recognition in McChrystal’s headquarters that McKiernan had made valuable contributions: The troops he asked for are now central to counterinsurgency operations in southern Afghanistan. McKiernan also set in motion changes in training Afghan security forces that McChrystal plans to continue.

sigh

359 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:02:36pm

re: #352 RogueOne

Not to be rude but that’s a little simplistic. Expecting a civilian population to rise up with pick axes against an aggresssive, well armed, and brutal opposition is asking a bit much. It’s a matter of survival, they’ll follow whoever holds the upper-hand and without the troops to hold an area we just keep contributing to a vicious cycle.

You left out this part where I said:

Expand the growth of the Afghanistan military and economy. That is divert the money from our own military operations towards those two goals.

360 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #348 Amory Blaine

It obviously would never happen, but would be good I think.

Ok… and we can get North Korea to sponsor next years Race For THe Cure.

361 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:04pm

Good Evening Lizards.

A quick lesson:
Afghani = currency
Afghan = a citizen of Afghanistan

362 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:08pm

re: #352 RogueOne

Not to be rude but that’s a little simplistic. Expecting a civilian population to rise up with pick axes against an aggresssive, well armed, and brutal opposition is asking a bit much. It’s a matter of survival, they’ll follow whoever holds the upper-hand and without the troops to hold an area we just keep contributing to a vicious cycle.

exactly…totally unrealistic, but typical of moonbat thinking

363 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:16pm

re: #340 Dark_Falcon

I’m not sure about that, but I do ask Ice to explain what she meant and who it was directed to.

Thank you. And I believe you got your answer. Iceweasel has been trolling Mandy and I since her return. I would be happy to ignore her if she would pay me the same courtesy.

364 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:18pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Iraqnia. State flag’d have a big fuckin’ hairy spider on it.

Um….with that adjective, you’ll need two spiders.

*ducks*

365 MinisterO  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:51pm

re: #318 brookly red

again I ask what is victory? we could destroy the place & say “I won” (sorry I couldn’t help that) or we can nation build till they are the 52nd state. We need to define victory.

There is no definition of “win” that is both reasonable and achievable in Afghanistan. Forget it Jake. It’s Chinatown.

366 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:03:56pm

re: #355 iceweasel

Sorry DF. Not going to happen. Bagua’s already spent some time trying to pick a fight with me in the thread downstairs. I am not engaging with him, and I don’t think there should be proxies in the piss-fight he is so desperately eager to have.

Sorry Bagua. You can just piss right the fuck off, and accept that I occupy lots more space in your head than you do in mine.

LOL.

367 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:04:04pm

re: #356 EmmmieG

Here’s my brilliant plan: (Well, I get to call it brilliant)

We’re going to have to take the generational approach. Nothing this messed up can be fixed by three years of occupation and a few buildings. Nope.

We go to Karzai and explain that he’s going to build some schools. Now. Schooling mandatory for everyone under 14. (I’d say 16, but they may not be there yet.) Curriculum will be supplied by us. We get the kids six hours a day. The madrassas can have them for an hour, if they promise not to preach the gospel of blowing thyself up.

The curriculum will be entirely based on logic and enlightened thought, etc.

And, of course, we provide cookies. (This is my plan, after all.) Who doesn’t love the people who give you cookies?

Yeah, I know this looks expensive, but I really don’t see how we can change the place without changing the thinking of the people.


Maybe we can bulldoze the mountains, set up irrigation or just flat out import a bunch of water and try to minor terraforming job while we’re at it!

(There are worse ideas…)

368 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 4:04:20pm

re: #361 rwdflynavy

Good Evening Lizards.

A quick lesson:
Afghani = currency
Afghan = a citizen of Afghanistan

And the blanket?

And the dog?

369 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:04:57pm

re: #355 iceweasel

Sorry DF. Not going to happen. Bagua’s already spent some time trying to pick a fight with me in the thread downstairs. I am not engaging with him, and I don’t think there should be proxies in the piss-fight he is so desperately eager to have.

Sorry Bagua. You can just piss right the fuck off, and accept that I occupy lots more space in your head than you do in mine.

do not want to engage in the debate?…I’m disappointed to not hear your ideas on the war….you shouldn’t let one person get to you

370 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:08pm

re: #355 iceweasel

Sorry DF. Not going to happen. Bagua’s already spent some time trying to pick a fight with me in the thread downstairs. I am not engaging with him, and I don’t think there should be proxies in the piss-fight he is so desperately eager to have.

Sorry Bagua. You can just piss right the fuck off, and accept that I occupy lots more space in your head than you do in mine.

Actually Iceweasel, I ignore you and have only commented to you after you have attacked me and others, as you do.

371 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:12pm

Slow down!

/

372 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:16pm

re: #367 jamesfirecat

Maybe we can bulldoze the mountains, set up irrigation or just flat out import a bunch of water and try to minor terraforming job while we’re at it!

(There are worse ideas…)

Contract a desalination plant to the Israelis and pipe it in.

373 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:17pm

re: #363 Bagua

Thank you. And I believe you got your answer. Iceweasel has been trolling Mandy and I since her return. I would be happy to ignore her if she would pay me the same courtesy.

Just pointing this out, since you are lying.

No one’s ‘trolling’ Mandy. If you have an issue that her comments were deleted, take it up with management.

374 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:17pm

It seems I’ve attracted the attention of Neo-Confederate blogger RS McCain again. Heh.

Killgore Trout Beclowns Himself

Dave Weigel of the Washington Post contacted me seeking a denial of an assertion by one of Charles Johnson’s LGF henchmorons that I was the anonymous ”Tea Party consultant” who wrote the Playboy article:

I don’t know the identity of the consultant, but my sources do, and I can’t say anything more about the consultant without risk of compounding the damage he’s already inadvertantly done.

Killgore Trout overlooked obvious evidence that contradicted his thesis, but what else do we expect from a moron who worships at the shrine of Charles Johnson and thought it was “clever” to plant racist slurs in the comments at Hot Air?

375 Boogberg  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:39pm

re: #334 prairiefire

He eats only one meal, runs for 8 miles, and sleeps only 4 hours every day.

I bet Chuck Norris could kick his ass. And Chuck is older (I think). :D

376 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:05:48pm

re: #367 jamesfirecat

Maybe we can bulldoze the mountains, set up irrigation or just flat out import a bunch of water and try to minor terraforming job while we’re at it!

(There are worse ideas…)

HEMP!
$$$$$

377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:02pm

re: #356 EmmmieG

Do they have pie over there? We could take pie.

378 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:07pm

re: #368 wrenchwench

And the blanket? = afghan

And the dog?

= afghani

That is all.

379 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:08pm

re: #359 Gus 802

Expand the growth of the Afghanistan military and economy. That is divert the money from our own military operations towards those two goals.

I’ll agree, the problem is its going to take a lot more US troops than we’re willing to commit.

380 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:14pm

re: #365 MinisterO

There is no definition of “win” that is both reasonable and achievable in Afghanistan. Forget it Jake. It’s Chinatown.

IIRC, we didn’t go there to fix Afghanistan, or even to destroy the Taliban. The original goal was to shake OBL out of their trousers.

381 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:40pm

re: #377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do they have pie over there? We could take pie.

How can you hate someone who gives you pie? Even if they make you learn the multiplication table to the 12’s.

382 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:06:50pm

re: #379 RogueOne

I’ll agree, the problem is its going to take a lot more US troops than we’re willing to commit.

Or afford. Then we’re talking escalation. 1 million boots on the ground.

383 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:07:40pm

re: #359 Gus 802

did they ever find the Afghani pilots that split the flight program we set up for them?

384 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:07:49pm

re: #365 MinisterO

There is no definition of “win” that is both reasonable and achievable in Afghanistan. Forget it Jake. It’s Chinatown.

/hey, now there is an idea… if we offer China half the mineral deposits they could come up with a million troops by sunrise. yooo hoooh mister taliban, we got a surprise for you :)

385 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:00pm

Killgore, I should tell that the giant flying troll over at the Stalker Blog (Rodan) is crowing both there and on his “Diary of Daedalus” about how you were “exposed by Robert Stacy McCain”. It’s a pack of nuttery and hate, as usual, including the ritual “calling the member of LGF a ‘progressive’.

386 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:04pm

re: #380 Decatur Deb

IIRC, we didn’t go there to fix Afghanistan, or even to destroy the Taliban. The original goal was to shake OBL out of their trousers.

He’s a six foot five arab man on dialysis, why is that so f***ing hard to find? Look for somebody attached to their luggage!

Robin Williams

387 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:09pm

re: #383 albusteve

did they ever find the Afghani pilots that split the flight program we set up for them?

388 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:11pm

re: #383 albusteve

did they ever find the Afghani pilots that split the flight program we set up for them?

I haven’t checked.

389 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:25pm

re: #382 Gus 802

Or afford. Then we’re talking escalation. 1 million boots on the ground.

I agree. Our options are limited. Either all in, or pull back and hope for the best.

My best friends kid is headed over in a couple weeks. Hopefully someone will figure it out before then./

Time for dinner folks.

390 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:08:37pm

re: #382 Gus 802

Or afford. Then we’re talking escalation. 1 million boots on the ground.

////Well it could fix our unemployment problem….

391 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:11pm

re: #380 Decatur Deb

IIRC, we didn’t go there to fix Afghanistan, or even to destroy the Taliban. The original goal was to shake OBL out of their trousers.

he is in Iran

392 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:17pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

Oh, I didn’t know the diary was his. I think that guy pays more attention to this site than Charles does…

/maybe?

393 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:22pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

Good work!

394 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:38pm

re: #389 RogueOne

I agree. Our options are limited. Either all in, or pull back and hope for the best.

My best friends kid is headed over in a couple weeks. Hopefully someone will figure it out before then./

Time for dinner folks.

My brother will be there in January. Better believe that I want a clear strategy or get the fuck out…

395 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:49pm

re: #373 iceweasel

Just pointing this out, since you are lying.

No one’s ‘trolling’ Mandy. If you have an issue that her comments were deleted, take it up with management.

And right on que, pull the Charles card. Lol.

Look, I get it that you have a problem with Mandy, and many others. You have issues. Whatever. Enjoy.

396 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:09:51pm

re: #391 brookly red

he is in Iran Dead

397 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:10:24pm

re: #391 brookly red

he is in Iran

I’m guessing Camden—cab driver.

398 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:11:26pm

Hmmm, someone keeps addressing me in this thread.
It’s so nice when people prove themselves liars for me.

399 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:11:37pm

re: #391 brookly red

he is in Iran

he’s in Florida…bet me, probably walked over the border with thousands of others

400 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #397 Decatur Deb

I’m guessing Camden—cab driver.

no joke they are supporting him just fine… I know some will scream wingnut but really where else could he be?

401 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:13:13pm

re: #398 iceweasel

Hmmm, someone keeps addressing me in this thread.
It’s so nice when people prove themselves liars for me.

why don’t you stick to the events we are discussing?…your constant digs at your personal relationships with the posters here is boring

402 Jack Burton  Jun 22, 2010 4:13:16pm

re: #396 rwdflynavy

I’m pretty sure he’s been doing a Weekend at Bernie’s act for awhile when it comes to any video or audio recordings that have surfaced post 03-04.

403 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:13:19pm

re: #398 iceweasel

Hmmm, someone keeps addressing me in this thread.
It’s so nice when people prove themselves liars for me.

Again, passively-aggressively calling me a liar, which is false. You are a liar.

404 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:13:29pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

Killgore, I should tell that the giant flying troll over at the Stalker Blog (Rodan) is crowing both there and on his “Diary of Daedalus” about how you were “exposed by Robert Stacy McCain”. It’s a pack of nuttery and hate, as usual, including the ritual “calling the member of LGF a ‘progressive’.

Yeah, it’s the usual idiocy. The vast majority of the comments at RSM’s are stalkers posting as either me or Charles. They do that all time.

405 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:13:44pm

re: #401 albusteve

just say no

406 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:14:19pm

re: #403 Bagua

just say no

407 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:15:21pm

re: #400 brookly red

no joke they are supporting him just fine… I know some will scream wingnut but really where else could he be?

Iran is plausible, Western Pakistan is the popular answer. Because we always assumed he was clever, anywhere in the Arab-speaking world is possible. The intertubes let terrorists tele-commute (at some risk).

408 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:15:22pm

what should BO do to improve our situation in Afghanistan?…anybody?

409 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:15:29pm

re: #392 JasonA

Oh, I didn’t know the diary was his. I think that guy pays more attention to this site than Charles does…

/maybe?

It’s his. In his Bizzaro World, Killgore is a “Progressive racist”, Ludwig is a “Toalitarian Progressive” [sic], and I am a “Totalitarian Fascist”. BOOGA BOOGA!

Samples of his lunacy are on display hert in hopes that it will quell the flame war and get people mocking a loon who truly deserves it.

410 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:15:53pm

re: #390 jamesfirecat

///Well it could fix our unemployment problem…

now that would take 40 million boots on the ground…

411 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:03pm

re: #377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do they have pie over there? We could take pie.

Speaking of which, I bought a most excellent lemon and blueberry pie last week. Yum.

412 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:18pm

Man, my fricking hand is cramping up from writing flash cards all afternoon.

413 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:28pm

re: #402 ArchangelMichael

I’m pretty sure he’s been doing a Weekend at Bernie’s act for awhile when it comes to any video or audio recordings that have surfaced post 03-04.

The worst outcome for us is “dead, never found”.

414 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:37pm

re: #408 albusteve

what should BO do to improve our situation in Afghanistan?…anybody?

Noticeably increased our troop presence so that we can act in more areas, or have more weight when acting in the same number of areas?

415 Jack Burton  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:42pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

I made the mistake of looking over there yesterday. Morbid curiosity of the “I wonder what are those maniacs doing it’s been awhile” type.

It was worse than I imagined. I felt like the Shrieking Harpy was reasonable in comparison.

416 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:44pm

re: #407 Decatur Deb

Iran is plausible, Western Pakistan is the popular answer. Because we always assumed he was clever, anywhere in the Arab-speaking world is possible. The intertubes let terrorists tele-commute (at some risk).

he’s in plain view somewhere…if he’s even alive that is, and there is no proof that he’s dead

417 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:16:49pm

re: #406 brookly red

just say no

Thank you, Brookly.

418 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:17:07pm

re: #410 brookly red

now that would take 40 million boots on the ground…

Well, conventional wisdom is it takes 8-10 men working at home to supply each man in the field.

419 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:17:16pm

re: #401 albusteve

why don’t you stick to the events we are discussing?…your constant digs at your personal relationships with the posters here is boring

It is what Iceweasel does, it is what she has always done here.

re: #406 brookly red

just say no

Quite right, I’ll go back to ignoring her taunts.

420 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:17:46pm

re: #399 albusteve

he’s in Florida…bet me, probably walked over the border with thousands of others

Walked over the border of Florida? From Alabama?

421 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:18:17pm

re: #418 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, conventional wisdom is it takes 8-10 men working at home to supply each man in the field.

The Army has work-at-home jobs?

/

422 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:18:31pm

Maybe I need to get another kidney stone. Last time I had one was the night we found Saddam.

423 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:04pm

re: #408 albusteve

what should BO do to improve our situation in Afghanistan?…anybody?

Send in CENSUS workers to conduct a census. That should scare off the Taliban.

//

424 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:13pm

re: #408 albusteve

what should BO do to improve our situation in Afghanistan?…anybody?

Withdraw to bases and make it virtually impossible to kill or maim US and UK troops. Either that or pull out of the country altogether.

425 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:14pm

re: #414 jamesfirecat

Noticeably increased our troop presence so that we can act in more areas, or have more weight when acting in the same number of areas?

I’m for it…like I said last year, we OWN Afghanistan, or we don’t…talking a major investment in troops and money…anything less is hopeless imo

426 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:14pm

re: #421 JasonA

The Army has work-at-home jobs?

/

*slap

427 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:28pm

re: #412 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Man, my fricking hand is cramping up from writing flash cards all afternoon.

Had to teach your co-workers not to frak things up?

428 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:45pm

re: #408 albusteve

what should BO do to improve our situation in Afghanistan?…anybody?

1. Offer the US heroin market to the biggest baddest drug lord who starts bringing us validated Taliban heads.

2. Wait a while and decriminalize heroin as a medical condition.

429 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:19:58pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

It’s his. In his Bizzaro World, Killgore is a “Progressive racist”, Ludwig is a “Toalitarian Progressive” [sic], and I am a “Totalitarian Fascist”. BOOGA BOOGA!

Samples of his lunacy are on display hert in hopes that it will quell the flame war and get people mocking a loon who truly deserves it.

And I’m a “who the fuck gives a damn” what these people think or say.

430 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #401 albusteve

why don’t you stick to the events we are discussing?…your constant digs at your personal relationships with the posters here is boring

Didn’t you already get threatened with a timeout today?

Maybe that’s a clue to pay attention to your own posts, and not mine. Just an idea.

431 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:20pm

re: #347 albusteve

really?…what’s a moonbat?

It must be the opposite of a wingnut.

This is really getting nuts.

432 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:21pm

re: #419 Bagua

Quite right, I’ll go back to ignoring her taunts.

life is just so much better when you free yourself from that kind of influence.

433 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:29pm

re: #420 Amory Blaine

Walked over the border of Florida? From Alabama?

gosh, I dunno…good question

434 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:45pm

re: #427 Varek Raith

Had to teach your co-workers not to frak things up?

Security Certification exams. Taking mock exams, then making flash cards for key concepts and questions that I missed.

435 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:20:49pm

re: #421 JasonA

The Army has work-at-home jobs?

/

Hey, in about five years or so a Joystick Jocks could probably launch hellfire missiles from a drone in between sips of from his latte while sitting at home in a bathrobe.

///The American dream, fighting a war without actually needing to leave your home or physically exert yourself!

436 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:21:03pm

re: #429 Walter L. Newton

And I’m a “who the fuck gives a damn” what these people think or say.

That’s fine. I was just trying to increase the peace in here, and sometimes that can be done by mocking an external foe.

437 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 4:21:26pm

re: #428 Decatur Deb

1. Offer the US heroin market to the biggest baddest drug lord who starts bringing us validated Taliban heads.

2. Wait a while and decriminalize heroin as a medical condition.

I like it. That’s very, CIA like.

Actually, creating a poppy opium market to be used for manufacturing morphine could also be applied.

438 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:21:51pm

re: #349 Bagua

You keep saying you will ignore me Iceweasel, yet you make these little passive-aggressive attacks that fool no one. Make it clear that you were not directing that “wingnut” tripe at me and I’ll be happy to apologise for calling you a moonbat.

You called iceweasel my “psychopathic girlfriend”, and refused to apologise. In fact, you have still never apologised for that - yet you demand to be treated with kid gloves by her and everyone else? I also remember that you have happily self identified as a wingnut before on LGF when it suited you, the howled with outrage when someone took you for your word on it.

These repeated demonstrations of fake shock and outrage of yours aren’t fooling anyone .

439 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:21:52pm

re: #428 Decatur Deb

1. Offer the US heroin market to the biggest baddest drug lord who starts bringing us validated Taliban heads.

2. Wait a while and decriminalize heroin as a medical condition.

Wait…

So heroin is going to be legal before pot?

440 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:22:19pm

re: #435 jamesfirecat

Hey, in about five years or so a Joystick Jocks (ed note: this means something totally different in my mind) could probably launch hellfire missiles from a drone in between sips of from his latte while sitting at home in a bathrobe.

///The American dream, fighting a war without actually needing to leave your home or physically exert yourself!

My l33t XBox skillz could save the free world?!?

441 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:22:22pm

re: #435 jamesfirecat

Hey, in about five years or so a Joystick Jocks could probably launch hellfire missiles from a drone in between sips of from his latte while sitting at home in a bathrobe.

///The American dream, fighting a war without actually needing to leave your home or physically exert yourself!

You mean like those blobs in Wall-E fighting a war? Scary thought. I’d prefer cupcake in a cup. Except that I prefer cupcake on a plate.

442 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:22:35pm

re: #431 ryannon

It must be the opposite of a wingnut.

This is really getting nuts.

it is…but it’s fun

443 ausador  Jun 22, 2010 4:22:36pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, I have to downding you. Iceweasel is not a moonbat.

Merely “moonbatish” and only some of the time… ;)

/Secular humanists are communists! (<—Iceweasel downding bait) :p

444 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:23:50pm

re: #430 iceweasel

“Liar Moonbat” totally has to go in your profile description with the others.

445 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:23:51pm

re: #430 iceweasel

Didn’t you already get threatened with a timeout today?

Maybe that’s a clue to pay attention to your own posts, and not mine. Just an idea.

yeah, just passing on friendly advice…you may have some kind of favorable status, but not with me…let it go

446 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:24:04pm

re: #438 Jimmah

You called iceweasel my “psychopathic girlfriend”, and refused to apologise. In fact, you have still never apologised for that - yet you demand to be treated with kid gloves by her and everyone else? I also remember that you have happily self identified as a wingnut before on LGF when it suited you, the howled with outrage when someone took you for your word on it.

These repeated demonstrations of fake shock and outrage of yours aren’t fooling anyone .

I see the other half of the tag team has arrived. I’m not interested jimmah, but thank you for confirming that I was being called a wingnut on this thread.

447 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:24:15pm

re: #435 jamesfirecat

Hey, in about five years or so a Joystick Jocks could probably launch hellfire missiles from a drone in between sips of from his latte while sitting at home in a bathrobe.

///The American dream, fighting a war without actually needing to leave your home or physically exert yourself!

send in the drones… there should be drones.

448 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:24:38pm

re: #446 Bagua

I see the other half of the tag team has arrived. I’m not interested jimmah, but thank you for confirming that I was being called a wingnut on this thread.

just say no

449 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2010 4:24:40pm

Scroll, people, scroll.

450 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:16pm

re: #435 jamesfirecat

Hey, in about five years or so a Joystick Jocks could probably launch hellfire missiles from a drone in between sips of from his latte while sitting at home in a bathrobe.

///The American dream, fighting a war without actually needing to leave your home or physically exert yourself!

Where do you apply?

451 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:21pm

re: #447 brookly red

send in the drones… there should be drones.

No war is ever won till you can place an infantry man on a spot of land and keep him there as long as you want.

452 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:29pm

re: #448 brookly red

just say no

Agreed. I will ignore them both.

453 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:31pm

re: #447 brookly red

send in the drones… there should be drones.

Yeah America being so casualty adverse really needs to work on developing our tech to the point that we can cost effectively send in robotic soldiers instead of real human ones….

454 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:32pm

I want to say that Jcat is pretty cool…he’s got it

455 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:45pm

re: #439 jamesfirecat

Sad face.

456 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Jun 22, 2010 4:25:50pm

Wow. My ten year old (who is built like a tank and hits as hard), just came in, so angry he was breathing hard and fists clenched. His little brother had done something to cheese him off, and rather than get violent, he walked in here and told me.

My baby might actually be growing up. (Actually the baby is five. This is the baby before the baby before the baby.)

And yes, that was a hint, people.

457 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:26:29pm

re: #453 jamesfirecat

Yeah America being so casualty adverse really needs to work on developing our tech to the point that we can cost effectively send in robotic soldiers instead of real human ones…

That’ll end well :

458 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:26:44pm

re: #451 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No war is ever won till you can place an infantry man on a spot of land and keep him there as long as you want.

right, a trillion dollar piece of ground, and if that’s the case, we own it

459 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:26:50pm

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

re: #446 Bagua

I see the other half of the tag team has arrived. I’m not interested jimmah, but thank you for confirming that I was being called a wingnut on this thread.

And exactly what part of my post that does that?

460 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:27:01pm

re: #431 ryannon

It must be the opposite of a wingnut.

This is really getting nuts.

We seem to have settled into a definition set: Wingnut= rightwing crazy, Moonbat=leftwing crazy. It’s not gospel, but seems to be LGF-workable. Newbies take note.

461 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:27:02pm

re: #451 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No war is ever won till you can place an infantry man on a spot of land and keep him there as long as you want.

well there are harsher alternatives but we do not need to go there…

462 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:27:36pm

re: #457 Amory Blaine

That’ll end well :

Hey they can be remote controlled robot soldiers rather than linked up to some central AI that may get it into its head to destroy humanity.

463 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:27:40pm

re: #452 Bagua

Agreed. I will ignore them both.

and don’t you feel better already ?

464 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:27:59pm

re: #451 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No war is ever won till you can place an infantry man on a spot of land and keep him there as long as you want.

With a PX/Burger King foodcourt.

465 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:02pm

re: #436 Dark_Falcon

That’s fine. I was just trying to increase the peace in here, and sometimes that can be done by mocking an external foe.

You want me to shoot from the hip about this. It’s a sick obsession that these people have, spending a good part of their day finding something smart-assed to say about people who amount to nothing but some bits and bytes, text which equates to opinions, stored somewhere on some computer hardware.

It’s even a sicker obsession if anyone cares what they say. Short of being aware of an actual illegal threat that one of these fools may make, it shouldn’t be in anyones head for more than a second… a half of a second.

No more than I respect everyone here, whether I agree with them or not, whether I foaming-at-the-mouth disagree with them, whether I tell them in no uncertain language that I disagree with them… but that disagreement doesn’t last a second longer in my head after I turn off this monitor.

Anything more than that is pathological. On all sides.

466 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:13pm

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

467 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:13pm

re: #459 Jimmah

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

And exactly what part of my post that does that?

give it up…there is no reason to escalate a thing you are not involved in

468 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:14pm

re: #461 brookly red

well there are harsher alternatives but we do not need to go there…

and after the harsher alternatives, you would still be able to place your infantry man there as long as you wanted, you just wouldn’t need to.

469 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:30pm

re: #442 albusteve

it is…but it’s fun

It’s the war of the dingbats!

470 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:32pm

re: #459 Jimmah

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

And exactly what part of my post that does that?

jimmah, I’m not interested in trading insults with you. Give it a rest mate. If you want to discuss issues we can do that. But this “wingnut” business is nonsense and needlessly and intentionally insulting.

471 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:28:59pm

re: #445 albusteve

yeah, just passing on friendly advice…you may have some kind of favorable status, but not with me…let it go

I don’t know where you get that idea.

472 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:29:12pm

I’m having a brain flash people….

Americans love video games….

America is deeply in debt…

How much do you think people would be willing to pay to play “drone commander” video games can’t possibly get any realer!

(I kid I kid…)

473 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:29:39pm

re: #468 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

and after the harsher alternatives, you would still be able to place your infantry man there as long as you wanted, you just wouldn’t need to.

basically

474 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:30:24pm

re: #470 Bagua

jimmah, I’m not interested in trading insults with you. Give it a rest mate. If you want to discuss issues we can do that. But this “wingnut” business is nonsense and needlessly and intentionally insulting.

just say no

475 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 4:30:39pm

re: #460 Decatur Deb

We seem to have settled into a definition set: Wingnut= rightwing crazy, Moonbat=leftwing crazy. It’s not gospel, but seems to be LGF-workable. Newbies take note.

Newbies will be reluctant to post anything in such a conflictual atmosphere.

476 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:31:13pm

re: #458 albusteve

right, a trillion dollar piece of ground, and if that’s the case, we own it

Empires are so 20th century.

477 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:31:24pm

re: #474 brookly red

just say no

Right. Sorry, turning pie filter on.

478 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 4:31:29pm

re: #475 ryannon

Newbies will be reluctant to post anything in such a conflictual atmosphere.

Is this thread considered unusually heated?

479 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:01pm

re: #466 Jimmah

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Bingo.

480 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:10pm

re: #466 Jimmah

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

fer gods sake….what is your point?…just spill it…more LGF he said/she said?…there used to be an unwritten rule that I liked, leave your personal crap on the last thread and let it go….KT finally drove that into my head…you don’t need to do this shit

481 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:24pm

I’m a red headed step child. I can take it.

482 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:24pm

re: #478 Casual Talker

Is this thread considered unusually heated?

You haven’t been here very long, have you?

483 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:32pm

re: #475 ryannon

Newbies will be reluctant to post anything in such a conflictual atmosphere.

I’m pretty much unscarred. It’s how we grow our scales.

484 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:39pm

re: #478 Casual Talker

Is this thread considered unusually heated?

Nah. It’s been a lot worse. It would be better if it were dropped though.

485 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:32:59pm

Yo Lizards, what is happening?

486 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:03pm

re: #478 Casual Talker

Is this thread considered unusually heated?

Shut up, you!

/

487 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:08pm

re: #472 jamesfirecat

I’m having a brain flash people…

Americans love video games…

America is deeply in debt…

How much do you think people would be willing to pay to play “drone commander” video games can’t possibly get any realer!

(I kid I kid…)


/the joke would be that you really did just did place a hellfire on mr. tallibans ass… LOL

488 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:15pm

re: #470 Bagua

jimmah, I’m not interested in trading insults with you. Give it a rest mate. If you want to discuss issues we can do that. But this “wingnut” business is nonsense and needlessly and intentionally insulting.

Perhaps if you hadn’t so gleefully festooned yourself with that tag yourself you wouldn’t have such a problem. And yes, another opportunity to apologize to iceweasel for that nasty comment of yours is passed over. Noted.

People aren’t being unfair to you Bagua - you are deliberately making it impossible for us to be to on anything remotely resembling good terms with you.

489 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:18pm

re: #482 Walter L. Newton

You haven’t been here very long, have you?

If I were but a mayfly, yes, but otherwise no.

490 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:23pm

re: #483 Decatur Deb

I’m pretty much unscarred. It’s how we grow our scales.

Define “Pretty much”.
///

491 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:30pm

re: #484 iceweasel

Nah. It’s been a lot worse. It would be better if it were dropped though.

I agree with you… somebody needs to be first to drop it.

492 Walter L. Newton  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:45pm

re: #485 Racer X

Yo Lizards, what is happening?

Fuck off…
/

493 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 4:33:45pm

How do you post a jpg using other words than the ones in the link, and have it pop up instead of opening a new tab? I must have been absent that day.

I want to post this:

Image: funny-pictures-cat-hates-pickle.jpg

…but link it in a phrase, like


Scroll if you don’t like it.

What’s the trick?

494 Casual Talker  Jun 22, 2010 4:34:12pm

re: #484 iceweasel

Nah. It’s been a lot worse. It would be better if it were dropped though.

From your lips….

495 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:34:18pm

re: #488 Jimmah

.

496 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:34:29pm

re: #477 Bagua

Right. Sorry, turning pie filter on.

they have no power except what you give them… so don’t give them.

497 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:34:58pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

Fuck off…
/

Ahh! A nice warm welcome. I love this place!

498 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:35:16pm

re: #476 JasonA

Empires are so 20th century.

it’s a mess for sure and I might sympathize with BO at some point…I’ll expose myself right now and declare we should leave Afghanistan…it will break the soul of our troops but I hope they learn to understand the folly and their cost…face it, we have lost the fight

499 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 4:35:34pm

re: #475 ryannon

Newbies will be reluctant to post anything in such a conflictual atmosphere.

They just need to jump in.

500 OldnGrumpy  Jun 22, 2010 4:36:06pm

The Beatles

Hello,Goodbye

Youtube Video

501 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:36:27pm

So what is the deal with McChrystal? Did he himself say some dumb shit stuff? Or just his aides?

502 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:19pm

re: #501 Racer X

So what is the deal with McChrystal? Did he himself say some dumb shit stuff? Or just his aides?

He did. His aide set up the interview, as I understand it.

503 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:19pm

re: #495 Bagua

.

Image: gaze.jpg

504 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:33pm

re: #498 albusteve

it’s a mess for sure and I might sympathize with BO at some point…I’ll expose myself right now and declare we should leave Afghanistan…it will break the soul of our troops but I hope they learn to understand the folly and their cost…face it, we have lost the fight

Dude. You haven’t heard of all the Lithium and stuff we found there? We are all gonna be rich, man!

505 Tricked By The Gods  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:35pm

Can you imagine the outrage from the right if say McCrystal or Petraeus had publicly disrespected Jorge W. Bush? He should of just kept his trap shut and do his job. Changing Generals at this point in time may only worsen conditions for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

506 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:49pm

re: #503 Jimmah

Image: gaze.jpg

MY EYES!

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 4:37:59pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Then it’s a no-win either way… this stink is not going to look good on Obama either way… either this guy was good, and policy coming down from above him was shit and pissed him off… or he was incompetent and should have been move on a long time ago… either way, this is going to fall right into Obama’s lap.

Too bad.

That’s what being President is all about.

508 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:38:32pm

re: #506 JasonA

MY EYES!

Heh, I should have warned you first mate. My bad.

509 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:38:34pm

re: #502 JasonA

He did. His aide set up the interview, as I understand it.

Is there a link that quotes him? I surfed around a bit and it looks like the really bad stuff was attributed to his aides.

510 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:38:46pm

re: #505 Tricked By The Gods

Can you imagine the outrage from the right if say McCrystal or Petraeus had publicly disrespected Jorge W. Bush? He should of just kept his trap shut and do his job. Changing Generals at this point in time may only worsen conditions for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Seriously, people have been fired for saying less important stuff on their Facebook page.

Jorge, though?

511 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 4:39:07pm

re: #505 Tricked By The Gods

A hatchling! Get him! ///

Welcome.

512 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:39:14pm

re: #504 Racer X

Dude. You haven’t heard of all the Lithium and stuff we found there? We are all gonna be rich, man!

Actually word is coming out that even the Russians new about that as far back as the 70s, one of the reasons they invaded.

513 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:39:56pm

re: #503 Jimmah

Image: gaze.jpg

Updinged because Michelle Bachmann is someone we all agree is a loon.

514 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 4:40:10pm

re: #509 Racer X

Yes, Racer, voice of reason.

515 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:40:26pm

re: #498 albusteve

it’s a mess for sure and I might sympathize with BO at some point…I’ll expose myself right now and declare we should leave Afghanistan…it will break the soul of our troops but I hope they learn to understand the folly and their cost…face it, we have lost the fight

Soldiers know when they’re on a fools errand. Whenever we go, it would be good not to get the modernized locals slaughtered.

516 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:41:13pm

re: #512 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually word is coming out that even the Russians new about that as far back as the 70s, one of the reasons they invaded.

don’t worry dude we are still waiting for the Iraqi oil some people swore the war was for… yawn.

517 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:41:37pm

Here’s a interesting thing:

Study examines scientists’ ‘climate credibility’

Some 98% of climate scientists that publish research on the subject support the view that human activities are warming the planet, a study suggests.

It added there was little disagreement among the most experienced scientists.

But climate sceptics questioned the findings, saying that publication in scientific journals was not a fair test of expertise.

The findings have been published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The study’s authors said they found “immense” differences in both the expertise and scientific prominence of those who supported the “primary tenets” of latest assessments made by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and those who were sceptical of the IPCC’s findings.

In general, they added, the researchers who were convinced of the human impact on climate change had published twice as many papers as their sceptical counterparts, and were cited in other people’s research two to three times more often.

Lead author William Anderegg, from Stanford University in California, US, said the findings suggested that not all experts were equal in what they claimed.

“The researchers who are convinced (by the IPCC’s assessment reports) have a lot more experience in climate research and have published a lot more papers in the scientific literature and are generally well respected in their field,” he said.

“And it also demonstrates the converse that those who are sceptical of the IPCC’s claims, in general, know a lot less about the climate system.”

Mr Anderegg and his colleagues drew from a list of 908 researchers who had contributed to research used by the IPCC and have signed statements broadly in support of the UN body’s assessments.

On the sceptical side, they chose 475 scientists from a list of 11 major sceptical declarations and open letters.

The researchers said they felt the need to carry out the survey because of the growing public perception that scientific opinion was divided on the issue following recent scandals, such as “climategate” at the UK’s University of East Anglia and the use of non-peer reviewed literature in the IPCC findings.

“We really felt that the state of the scientific debate was so far removed from the state of the public discourse and we felt that a good quantitative, rigorous comparison of this would put to rest the notion that the scientists ‘disagree’ about global warming,” Mr Anderegg told BBC News.

news.bbc.co.uk

518 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:42:19pm

re: #516 brookly red

don’t worry dude we are still waiting for the Iraqi oil some people swore the war was for… yawn.

Yeah, when do we start getting the oil?

519 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:42:22pm

re: #505 Tricked By The Gods

Welcome—nuts to the right, bats to the left.

520 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:42:32pm

re: #508 Bagua

Heh, I should have warned you first mate. My bad.

???

Jimmah posted that, no?

OMG… Bagua and Jimmah are the same person!!11!!11eleventy!

521 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:42:40pm

re: #422 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe I need to get another kidney stone. Last time I had one was the night we found Saddam.

I’m not sure it’s worth it, but… okay

522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:43:25pm

re: #517 Jimmah

Heard you had sleepin’ sickness or somethin’…

523 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:43:29pm

re: #517 Jimmah

so?

524 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:43:36pm

re: #521 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m not sure it’s worth it, but… okay

Stories of kidney stones always make me up my water intake.

525 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:43:36pm

re: #513 Dark_Falcon

Updinged because Michelle Bachmann is someone we all agree is a loon.

You can see the crazy in her eyes. It’s like looking into the abyss.

526 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:43:37pm

re: #518 Bagua

Yeah, when do we start getting the oil?

2012

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:44:04pm

re: #518 Bagua

Yeah, when do we start getting the oil?

They spilt it.

528 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:44:07pm

re: #520 JasonA

???

Jimmah posted that, no?

OMG… Bagua and Jimmah are the same person!!11!!11eleventy!

Heh, I meant my 495 and was confusing you with Stanley Sea.

529 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:44:12pm

re: #524 JasonA

Stories of kidney stones always make me up my water intake.

Its the closet a man can come to giving birth, so of course we all try to avoid the possibility like hell….

530 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:44:28pm

re: #528 Bagua

Heh, I meant my 495 and was confusing you with Stanley Sea.

A likely story…

/

531 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:00pm

re: #88 RogueOne

Roughly 20 million dead russians would have voted for the Patton plan.

Sure. The Nazis would have been a great alternative to Stalin.

532 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:07pm

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

533 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:12pm

re: #524 JasonA

Stories of kidney stones always make me up my water intake.

hey take corn silk pills… cheap natural corn silk just one of the things my clients don’t want you to know about.

534 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:32pm

re: #524 JasonA

Stories of kidney stones always make me up my water intake.

I spice up my afternoon cocktails with GaterAde…vodka and Ade…red is my favorite flavor

535 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:37pm

re: #529 jamesfirecat

Its the closet a man can come to giving birth, so of course we all try to avoid the possibility like hell…

I had one once.

I would rather gouge out my eyes with rusty nails than go through that again. Seriously, the pain was actually fascinating in its intensity. I found myself hallucinating.

536 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:45:48pm

re: #533 brookly red

hey take corn silk pills… cheap natural corn silk just one of the things my clients don’t want you to know about.

Never heard that one before.

537 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:15pm

re: #529 jamesfirecat

Its the closet a man can come to giving birth, so of course we all try to avoid the possibility like hell…

I heard it was like giving birth to a mirrored disco ball, except all the mirrors are broken and the shards of glass are still attached.

538 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:20pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

Something to keep the wildlife neighbors out?

539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:20pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

*sing songy*

KT’s gonna grow some weeed!
KT’s gonna grow some weeed!

540 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:33pm

re: #537 Racer X

I heard it was like giving birth to a mirrored disco ball, except all the mirrors are broken and the shards of glass are still attached.

I’d say that’s an apt description.

541 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:35pm

re: #534 albusteve

I spice up my afternoon cocktails with GaterAde…vodka and Ade…red is my favorite flavor

uhhh watch dat shit OK?

542 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:44pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

yes you can, Ive done it…but not alone, what’s your land addy?

543 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:53pm

re: #529 jamesfirecat

Its the closet a man can come to giving birth, so of course we all try to avoid the possibility like hell…

My favorite part was sitting in the ER for 5 hours with every passing Nurse saying “OH, its kidney stones, hurts like hell. Sorry, can’t give you anything for the pain until the doctor sees you.”

544 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:46:56pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

What size? This is a good site for greenhouses and supply.

545 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:47:01pm

re: #535 Fozzie Bear

I had one once.

I would rather gouge out my eyes with rusty nails than go through that again. Seriously, the pain was actually fascinating in its intensity. I found myself hallucinating.

My uncle just passed one. The scary thing is that he’s in great shape for being 60ish.

546 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:47:18pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

Very cool!

547 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:47:43pm

re: #522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heard you had sleepin’ sickness or somethin’…

Heh. Got attacked by a NYC mosquito on my last night there- looked like a gunshot wound by this morning. It’s fine though - I just need to take a shitload of anti-biotics and anti-histamines.

548 Kragar  Jun 22, 2010 4:47:50pm

re: #534 albusteve

I spice up my afternoon cocktails with GaterAde…vodka and Ade…red is my favorite flavor

RED IS NOT A FLAVOR!

549 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:48:33pm

re: #536 JasonA

Never heard that one before.

it’s very good for both m/f urinary systems… cheap, natural & obviously no side effects. It’s corn trust it.

550 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:48:43pm

re: #522 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heard you had sleepin’ sickness or somethin’…

Any news of your daughter, FBV? Hope she’s ok.

551 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:48:55pm

re: #541 brookly red

uhhh watch dat shit OK?

it’s for my nerves…really, my destroyed leg nerves…and don’t mock me, it’s a sorrowful tale

552 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:49:02pm

re: #547 Jimmah

Heh. Got attacked by a NYC mosquito on my last night there- looked like a gunshot wound by this morning. It’s fine though - I just need to take a shitload of anti-biotics and anti-histamines.

Holy crap, I was sitting outside on the porch last night around 7 or so. The fuckers ate me alive. I remember reading once that they love my blood type most of all. I’m like mosquito crack…

553 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:49:39pm

re: #548 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

RED IS NOT A FLAVOR!

I beg to differ ;)

554 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:03pm

re: #547 Jimmah

Heh. Got attacked by a NYC mosquito on my last night there- looked like a gunshot wound by this morning. It’s fine though - I just need to take a shitload of anti-biotics and anti-histamines.

So you’re back in Scotland right now?

555 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:13pm

re: #552 JasonA

Holy crap, I was sitting outside on the porch last night around 7 or so. The fuckers ate me alive. I remember reading once that they love my blood type most of all. I’m like mosquito crack…

The further north you go, the nastier they get. Alaskan mosquitoes are fucking frightening. Thank God I don’t live there.

556 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:36pm

I saw an ad for a new Off! clip-on mosquito repellent thingie. Has anyone tried it? I hate spraying that nasty goo on my skin.

557 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:44pm

re: #548 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

RED IS NOT A FLAVOR!

RED RULES!
FREE THE FLAVOR!

558 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:53pm

re: #538 wrenchwench

Something to keep the wildlife neighbors out?

It will certainly keep their noise out of the house. Double pained glass all along the back of the house. Should really help reduce heating costs in the winter too.

559 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:55pm

Why did God make mosquitoes, anyway?

/

560 Tricked By The Gods  Jun 22, 2010 4:50:59pm

Isn’t there any republicans, libertarians or tea party members who are concerned about the blatant corporate control of our government?

All I see are protests and rallies against big government and this alleged path to socialism. Yet not one protest or rally against the corporations who rule our government.

Both sides have sold we the people out and only represent the interests of the Banks, Credit Card Companies, Wall Street, Big Oil, The War Industry, Big Pharma, The Health Insurance Industry, The Health Care Industry, Monsanto, DuPont, etc, etc…

With the recent decision by the Supreme Court which gives corporations cart blanche over our elections, you would think this would alarm some on the right.

I imagine in their little worlds fascism and a plutocracy are much better than that scary socialism.

561 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:18pm

I just had a random thought about our LGF couples: Ice/Jimmah or RWC/DragonLady. I wonder if your sig others get upset with each other if you don’t up ding each other’s comments? I just thought of that after I saw Ice upding Jimmah (NTTAWWT) right here in front of us!

“What the hell honey!!!??? Why didn’t you upding my 549!!!?!?!?!”
//

562 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:24pm

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

So you’re back in Scotland right now?

Yep. Got here a day or so ago.

563 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:30pm

re: #539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

*sing songy*

KT’s gonna grow some weeed!
KT’s gonna grow some weeed!

Who says I’m not already?
/Just kidding, I know the stalkers drool over my every comment.

564 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:33pm

re: #556 allegro

I saw an ad for a new Off! clip-on mosquito repellent thingie. Has anyone tried it? I hate spraying that nasty goo on my skin.

I have heard that lots of fresh garlic works to some extent, against both mosquitoes and other people.

565 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:38pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

I just received an estimate for building a greenhouse out back. It’s a lot of money but I can almost afford it. I’d have to buy it as a kit and install it myself but it’s almost doable.

I built a 10x60 out of landscape timbers and 1” PVC pipe. In Winter a 6 mil. cover keeps the Alabama temp above freezing. In Summer it is completely covered with deer netting. It cost a couple hundred, and has lasted with little repair for about 15 yrs. (A cover lasts about 2 winters here.)

566 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:38pm

re: #559 JasonA

Why did God make mosquitoes, anyway?

To feed Purple Martins and bats.

567 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:51:48pm

re: #557 albusteve

RED RULES!
FREE THE FLAVOR!

bless you my son, your transgressions are forgiven.

568 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 4:52:01pm

re: #557 albusteve

RED RULES!
FREE THE FLAVOR!

Image: koolaidman.jpg

569 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:52:24pm

re: #526 brookly red

2012

I reckon you are on track. Oil is shaping up to be a major influence on the 2012 election due to the drilling moratorium.

570 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:52:45pm

re: #550 Jimmah

My daughter’s boyfriend fell from a four story balcony and broke his back, and damaged his spinal cord beyond repair. Latest news?

They’ve had to intubate him. Lungs ain’t doing well. May have pneumonia.

Spinal cord injuries are a gift that keep on giving and giving and giving….

The worst thing my family has ever had to face, and ain’t even our family.

Thanks for asking.

571 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:52:49pm

re: #159 Bagua

More insubordination?

Federal judge blocks drilling moratorium in Gulf

Heh.

My panel of experts have recommended we institute an immediate moratorium on all drilling activities.
- Obama

Um, no we didn’t.
- Panel of experts.

No matter, I’m going to implement the moratorium anyway.
- Obama

Um, no you aren’t.
- Federal Judge.

572 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:52:58pm

re: #560 Tricked By The Gods

Isn’t there any republicans, libertarians or tea party members who are concerned about the blatant corporate control of our government?

All I see are protests and rallies against big government and this alleged path to socialism. Yet not one protest or rally against the corporations who rule our government.

Both sides have sold we the people out and only represent the interests of the Banks, Credit Card Companies, Wall Street, Big Oil, The War Industry, Big Pharma, The Health Insurance Industry, The Health Care Industry, Monsanto, DuPont, etc, etc…

With the recent decision by the Supreme Court which gives corporations cart blanche over our elections, you would think this would alarm some on the right.

I imagine in their little worlds fascism and a plutocracy are much better than that scary socialism.

/well yes… we just don’t discuss it here.

573 Tricked By The Gods  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:30pm

re: #559 JasonA

Because he didn’t want all of the lawyers and the uber elite to be the only bloodsuckers on the planet?

574 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:36pm

re: #542 albusteve

yes you can, Ive done it…but not alone, what’s your land addy?

I asked the guy about that. He said it is feasible to do as a one man job. It’s hard to imagine.

575 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:37pm

re: #559 JasonA

Why did God make mosquitoes, anyway?

/

Assassins? ;-)

576 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:53pm

re: #571 Racer X

Heh.

My panel of experts have recommended we institute an immediate moratorium on all drilling activities.
- Obama

Um, no we didn’t.
- Panel of experts.

No matter, I’m going to implement the moratorium anyway.
- Obama

Um, no you aren’t.
- Federal Judge.

What happens during the appeal? Does the moratorium hold or is it off?

577 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:56pm

re: #558 Killgore Trout

It will certainly keep their noise out of the house. Double pained glass all along the back of the house. Should really help reduce heating costs in the winter too.

I put in a small 4x12 off my kitchen…we loved it, it was a huge deal…I put water right there but not heat, that was way too much work and not really needed

578 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:53:59pm

re: #569 Bagua

I reckon you are on track. Oil is shaping up to be a major influence on the 2012 election due to the drilling moratorium.

which a federal judge (appointed by Reagen) slapped down today…

579 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:54:06pm

re: #559 JasonA

Why did God make mosquitoes, anyway?

/

re: #560 Tricked By The Gods

How odd.

580 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 4:55:03pm

re: #576 Bagua

What happens during the appeal? Does the moratorium hold or is it off?

I believe it is on during the appeal.

*Disclaimer* I am not a lawyer, but I used to watch LA Law.

581 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:55:39pm

re: #574 Killgore Trout

I asked the guy about that. He said it is feasible to do as a one man job. It’s hard to imagine.

You can do it! Construction jobs are never as difficult in terms of technique as they look, and always more time consuming than you think.

It’s also incredibly rewarding, imo.

582 Killgore Trout  Jun 22, 2010 4:55:54pm

re: #565 Decatur Deb

I built a 10x60 out of landscape timbers and 1” PVC pipe. In Winter a 6 mil. cover keeps the Alabama temp above freezing. In Summer it is completely covered with deer netting. It cost a couple hundred, and has lasted with little repair for about 15 yrs. (A cover lasts about 2 winters here.)

I thought about something like that myself but I’d really like to make it a permanent and aesthetically pleasing addition to the house. I’m going to use it for growing but I’m going to leave enough open room that someone could use it as a dining area or sitting room.

583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 4:56:06pm

re: #561 rwdflynavy

Holy hell. That never occurred to me!

Nice observation!

584 Filala  Jun 22, 2010 4:56:35pm

re: #235 marjoriemoon</em

Karzai - now there’s a man of great integrity - not.

585 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 4:56:43pm

re: #571 Racer X

Heh.

My panel of experts have recommended we institute an immediate moratorium on all drilling activities.
- Obama

Um, no we didn’t.
- Panel of experts.

No matter, I’m going to implement the moratorium anyway.
- Obama

Um, no you aren’t.
- Federal Judge.

re: #571 Racer X

Heh.

My panel of experts have recommended we institute an immediate moratorium on all drilling activities.
- Obama

Um, no we didn’t.
- Panel of experts.

No matter, I’m going to implement the moratorium anyway.
- Obama

Um, no you aren’t.
- Federal Judge.

Federal Judge who holds stock in Transocean when last I heard….

washingtonmonthly.com

586 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 4:56:50pm

re: #556 allegro

I saw an ad for a new Off! clip-on mosquito repellent thingie. Has anyone tried it? I hate spraying that nasty goo on my skin.

they either like you or they don’t… if they like you eat garlic (preferably on a thin crust NY style pizza) lotsa garlic

587 Fozzie Bear  Jun 22, 2010 4:57:36pm

re: #586 brookly red

they either like you or they don’t… if they like you eat garlic (preferably on a thin crust NY style pizza) lotsa garlic

Seriously, it works!

588 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 4:57:47pm

re: #582 Killgore Trout

I thought about something like that myself but I’d really like to make it a permanent and aesthetically pleasing addition to the house. I’m going to use it for growing but I’m going to leave enough open room that someone could use it as a dining area or sitting room.

What latitude. Keeping my quonset-shaped gallery cool enough in the sun is a problem.

589 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 4:58:25pm

re: #580 rwdflynavy

I believe it is on during the appeal.

*Disclaimer* I am not a lawyer, but I used to watch LA Law.

Hopefully, the appeal is quickly rejected. That would actually help the Gulf Coast.

590 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 4:58:42pm

re: #576 Bagua

What happens during the appeal? Does the moratorium hold or is it off?

I dunno. I’m just cracking up over the whole deal. The administration LIED when they said the panel recommended a moratorium. They wrote a letter saying they did NOT say that.

Too funny.

591 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 4:58:46pm

re: #585 jamesfirecat

Federal Judge who holds stock in Transocean when last I heard…

[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com…]

Heh, that could become an issue during the appeal.

592 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 4:59:01pm

re: #561 rwdflynavy

I just had a random thought about our LGF couples: Ice/Jimmah or RWC/DragonLady. I wonder if your sig others get upset with each other if you don’t up ding each other’s comments? I just thought of that after I saw Ice upding Jimmah (NTTAWWT) right here in front of us!

“What the hell honey!!!??? Why didn’t you upding my 549!!!?!?!?!”
//

Nope. Some people probably do— it probably depends. We don’t tend to notice if we upding each other or don’t.

593 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 4:59:41pm

re: #586 brookly red

they either like you or they don’t… if they like you eat garlic (preferably on a thin crust NY style pizza) lotsa garlic

And try not to have Type O blood…
Why do mosquitoes bite some people more than others?

Blood-type markers are chemicals released by people of a specific blood type – so if someone with AB blood emitted a marker, it would be different than that released by B. One study found persons with Type O blood suffered more mosquito landings because of the odorant markers they emit than any other blood type, making their juices a hot commodity for blood banks, as well as Asian Tiger Mosquitoes, which carry West Nile Virus. Not only were Type O’s more likely to be landed on, but the study found that for any blood type, people who secreted a chemical marker about their blood type through their skin (both blood type and secretor status are determined by genes) were bitten much more than non-secretors; 24 percent in the case of the Type O’s.
594 allegro  Jun 22, 2010 4:59:42pm

re: #560 Tricked By The Gods

Isn’t there any republicans, libertarians or tea party members who are concerned about the blatant corporate control of our government?

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse offers an amazing speech.

Excerpt:

The scope, the extent, the insidious nature of corporate influence in regulatory agencies of government—this question of regulatory capture—is something we should attend to here. It is the lesson, and it raises the question beyond the Minerals Management Service: How far does this corporate influence reach into our agencies of government?

595 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2010 4:59:59pm

My hubby would rather watch Sports Center.

596 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 5:00:18pm

re: #590 Racer X

I dunno. I’m just cracking up over the whole deal. The administration LIED when they said the panel recommended a moratorium. They wrote a letter saying they did NOT say that.

Too funny.

Caught dead to rights.

597 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 5:00:33pm

re: #585 jamesfirecat

Federal Judge who holds stock in Transocean when last I heard…

[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com…]

Conspiracy!

Actually he cited a Federal regulation that requires a period of consulting with the industry. Like it or not that is the law.

598 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:01:20pm

re: #574 Killgore Trout

I asked the guy about that. He said it is feasible to do as a one man job. It’s hard to imagine.

which automatically means you need help…long measurements, chalk lines etc…I build stuff, you can do it, but it would be so much easier with another set of arms and hands…if it isn’t layed out perfect, you will struggle the entire way…and I work for vodka and merlot, the cheap stuff

599 ausador  Jun 22, 2010 5:01:36pm

re: #466 Jimmah

The real reason wingnuts are extra-frothy today :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Your kidding right? bwahahahahaha, that’s funny.

/wow, your not? Maybe it’s time for a deep breath or two before posting. I certainly need one every now and then and still manage to post meaninglessly railing’s at someone that turns out to be nonsense from time to time. (Just wait till I can read minds! Then everyone will respect me! ;)…)

600 jamesfirecat  Jun 22, 2010 5:01:40pm

re: #597 Racer X

Conspiracy!

Actually he cited a Federal regulation that requires a period of consulting with the industry. Like it or not that is the law.

Fair enough, I’m just saying that shouldn’t he have recused himself and let a judge who doesn’t have obvious economic ties to oil drilling make the evidently obvious decision? Or are we all out of those….

601 [deleted]  Jun 22, 2010 5:01:40pm
602 HoosierHoops  Jun 22, 2010 5:02:21pm

re: #595 prairiefire

My hubby would rather watch Sports Center.

That’s my man!
:)

603 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 5:02:43pm

re: #592 iceweasel

Nope. Some people probably do— it probably depends. We don’t tend to notice if we upding each other or don’t.

Upding!

604 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 5:02:57pm

My life just got a hell of a lot more complicated. Friggin’ developers decided to make their code more ‘modular’ which changes the object hierarchy in the application for one of my most complex automation frameworks. That means re-architect the whole fucking thing. In a way, I’m glad they did this as it forces me to force my team members to use the strategy I used for a couple of modules (which won’t need re-architecting, if that’s a word) as I use dynamic object recognition rather than an object repository, which traditionally, has always been a bitch to maintain.

The only thing that makes it really complicated is that I’ve got three other projects dropped on my lap at the same time…oh joy!

605 rwdflynavy  Jun 22, 2010 5:03:07pm

The kids ain’t gonna bathe themselves!!!

Later Lizards.

606 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:03:25pm

re: #590 Racer X

I dunno. I’m just cracking up over the whole deal. The administration LIED when they said the panel recommended a moratorium. They wrote a letter saying they did NOT say that.

Too funny.

yup…this shit will all wash out later…not good for BO

607 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 5:05:37pm

re: #603 Jimmah

Upding! (plus flowers, chocolate, bubble bath, and a footrub)


FTFY…do it right, man!

608 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2010 5:05:43pm

BBL

609 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:05:48pm

there are no mosquitoes in NM, there is no water in NM….we do have Sports Center I hear

610 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 5:06:00pm

Whirlpool heads to Mexico.

611 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:06:57pm

re: #601 brookly red

//well really, blood sucking parasites are attracted to liberals… if you just get your mind right the parasites will stop feeding on you :)

3… 2… 1…

I thought they were attracted to conservatives. We get attacked by creatures that try to empty our wallets ‘for the greater good’. ;)

612 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 5:08:05pm

re: #603 Jimmah

Upding!

I just dinged Jimmah and I loved it.

I suppose it makes a difference that we met here. That is, we were already used to having ‘separate identities’ here, as opposed to being a couple and then joining. That probably makes some kind of difference in terms of interaction.
I can see a situation where a couple might expect each other to read and upding every one of each other’s comments, but since we weren’t a couple and didn’t know each other when I joined, there isn’t really the possibility of that kind of pressure.

613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 5:08:30pm

re: #579 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That was funny as hell, btw.

614 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:08:49pm

re: #611 Dark_Falcon

I thought they were attracted to conservatives. We get attacked by creatures that try to empty our wallets ‘for the greater good’. ;)

Last checked you didn’t have anything in your wallet…

///(Hey, I’m in the same boat. Grats on the job, by the way!)

615 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 5:09:21pm

re: #611 Dark_Falcon

I thought they were attracted to conservatives. We get attacked by creatures that try to empty our wallets ‘for the greater good’. ;)

well after a season or two you learn to protect your self…

616 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:10:08pm

re: #612 iceweasel

I just dinged Jimmah and I loved it.

But did you “spread the Gospel” to him…?

617 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:11:15pm

re: #610 Amory Blaine

Whirlpool heads to Mexico.

Where they can pay the workers 1980s minimum wages. Yes, that’s how the faux-patriot corporations work. Greed is not good.

618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Jun 22, 2010 5:11:43pm

re: #610 Amory Blaine

LG has put an amazing amount of pressure on Appliance manufacturers.

They make very good stuff and are very inexpensive.

They are a Korean Company. Always have been.

They’re kicking ass. Companies are doing whatever they can to survive.

619 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 5:11:50pm

re: #612 iceweasel

I just dinged Jimmah and I loved it.

I just got updinged by both Iceweasel and Jimmah…film at eleven.

620 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 5:11:54pm

re: #616 JasonA

But did you “spread the Gospel” to him…?

That’s sharing the Gospel!

621 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:12:13pm

re: #620 iceweasel

That’s sharing the Gospel!

Oh. That’s right, you spread something else…

622 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 5:12:20pm

re: #619 darthstar

I just got updinged by both Iceweasel and Jimmah…film at eleven.

what a surprise!

623 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:12:44pm

re: #610 Amory Blaine

Whirlpool heads to Mexico.

Whirlpool left Benton Harbor MI because of taxes and regulations they simply could not afford…it killed the town, hundreds of high skilled workers left with nothing…google it…corporate taxes drove them out of the country, like many others…the feds can only soak so many people to finance itself and entitlements before they close up shop…see textiles in the south east or steel up north…the feds stripped away our competativeness via taxation….who pays for all the free shit?

624 Reginald Perrin  Jun 22, 2010 5:13:59pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

I hope you realize that Iapyx, who runs that stalker blog is Larry Reisinger, the Pajamas Media “science” contributor. Am I the only one that finds it strange that a Pajamas Media contributor is running a stalker blog?

625 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:14:00pm

re: #617 Gus 802

Where they can pay the workers 1980s minimum wages. Yes, that’s how the faux-patriot corporations work. Greed is not good.

tell that to your feds…ahahaha!

626 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 5:14:49pm

re: #617 Gus 802

Where they can pay the workers 1980s minimum wages. Yes, that’s how the faux-patriot corporations work. Greed is not good.

true not good but very real… just like people leaving states with income taxes to those that don’t… call it what you want but it is what it is.

627 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 5:15:05pm

re: #607 darthstar

Upding! (plus flowers, chocolate, bubble bath, and a footrub)

You missed out cake and booze there ;-)

Youtube Video

628 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:15:19pm

re: #618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LG has put an amazing amount of pressure on Appliance manufacturers.

They make very good stuff and are very inexpensive.

They are a Korean Company. Always have been.

They’re kicking ass. Companies are doing whatever they can to survive.

Thus it only benefits a select few or the proverbial front office. The company moves manufacturing overseas but it result in no benefit to the American people and the working class that rely on these jobs. Consumers only get cheaper washing machines.

At what point does a company based in the USA with manufacturing overseas remains an American company? Eventually, in my view, if Whirlpool moves all manufacturing to Mexico they should be considered a Mexican company.

629 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 5:15:28pm

re: #394 ShaunP

My brother will be there in January. Better believe that I want a clear strategy or get the fuck out…

Wish him the best of luck. Why so far out? Second tour?

630 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:15:56pm

re: #619 darthstar

I just got updinged by both Iceweasel and Jimmah…film at eleven.

so what?..are we supposed to be impressed?
I’m wearing my blue rubber shoes today…

631 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:16:17pm

re: #625 albusteve

tell that to your feds…ahahaha!

Your Feds? Oh right, you live in a different country.

632 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 5:16:39pm

re: #623 albusteve

Whirlpool left Benton Harbor MI because of taxes and regulations they simply could not afford…it killed the town, hundreds of high skilled workers left with nothing…google it…corporate taxes drove them out of the country, like many others…the feds can only soak so many people to finance itself and entitlements before they close up shop…see textiles in the south east or steel up north…the feds stripped away our competativeness via taxation…who pays for all the free shit?

Here’s what I found. Please share your info:
publicbroadcasting.net

Whirlpool’s global headquarters is in Benton Harbor, but the company says it no longer needs its machining shop in the city. The company says it reviewed its manufacturing operations for laundry appliances, and decided to move all the work to Clyde, Ohio.

633 ausador  Jun 22, 2010 5:17:05pm

re: #611 Dark_Falcon

I thought they were attracted to conservatives. We get attacked by creatures that try to empty our wallets ‘for the greater good’. ;)

Gotta admit I had never written a “one time” check to the government before, but now that I am “retired” Kendra doesn’t do these things for me anymore. Having to send the IRS a check for a bit over $14,000.00 all in one bite was rather painful, but then again the government does need cash, right?

Plus I got a refund! I sat down with a friend who fills out tax returns professionally and after he went through all the numbers he discovered that I had overpaid by $47.00! He also told me I’d be lucky if they didn’t fine me for not paying quarterly during the first half of last year when I wasn’t quite officially retired…

Sigh, taxes are just way too complicated, and Kendra is still up in Alaska, guess I will just have to muddle through somehow… ;)

634 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:17:14pm

re: #624 Reginald Perrin

I hope you realize that Iapyx, who runs that stalker blog is Larry Reisinger, the Pajamas Media “science” contributor. Am I the only one that finds it strange that a Pajamas Media contributor is running a stalker blog?

It’s strange that PJM chooses to associate its with the Stalkers and turn on Charles. I’ve never understood that save for wingnuttery.

635 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:17:50pm

re: #628 Gus 802

Thus it only benefits a select few or the proverbial front office. The company moves manufacturing overseas but it result in no benefit to the American people and the working class that rely on these jobs. Consumers only get cheaper washing machines.

At what point does a company based in the USA with manufacturing overseas remains an American company? Eventually, in my view, if Whirlpool moves all manufacturing to Mexico they should be considered a Mexican company.

they would probably love that…life is good eh?

636 Reginald Perrin  Jun 22, 2010 5:18:06pm

re: #404 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it’s the usual idiocy. The vast majority of the comments at RSM’s are stalkers posting as either me or Charles. They do that all time.

That doesn’t surprise me at all. The stalkers from the cesspool got their start as sock-puppet trolls working for/with Eric Odom. A few of them had literately used 100’s of sock-puppets.

Once a troll. always a troll.

637 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:18:19pm

re: #626 brookly red

true not good but very real… just like people leaving states with income taxes to those that don’t… call it what you want but it is what it is.

It is what it is and it means less manufacturing jobs for the American people. In the end it only benefits the top 1 percent of Americans and bodes poorly for the future of America.

638 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:18:36pm

re: #631 Gus 802

Your Feds? Oh right, you live in a different country.

maybe, some NM think that

639 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 5:19:47pm

re: #630 albusteve

so what?..are we supposed to be impressed?
I’m wearing my blue rubber shoes today…

Funny, I hadn’t pictured you as someone who wears crocs.

640 Reginald Perrin  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:05pm

re: #634 Dark_Falcon

It’s strange that PJM chooses to associate its with the Stalkers and turn on Charles. I’ve never understood that save for wingnuttery.

It’s rather a complicated tale, the astro-turf spin machine works in mysterious ways.

641 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:07pm

re: #628 Gus 802

Thus it only benefits a select few or the proverbial front office. The company moves manufacturing overseas but it result in no benefit to the American people and the working class that rely on these jobs. Consumers only get cheaper washing machines.

At what point does a company based in the USA with manufacturing overseas remains an American company? Eventually, in my view, if Whirlpool moves all manufacturing to Mexico they should be considered a Mexican company.

Well, we’re all about taking care of those poor immigrants. Why not take care of them in Mexico, and put them to work there?

642 Authoritarian F*ckpuddles  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:12pm

re: #621 JasonA

Oh. That’s right, you spread something else…

I can’t believe it’s not butthurt?

643 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:13pm

re: #635 albusteve

they would probably love that…life is good eh?

Probably not. Most people will think Whirlpool products will mean they’re buying “Made in the USA.” Pretending to be an American company has a lot of PR and consumer appeal.

644 darthstar  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:15pm

Okay…time to go cook dinner for my parents…play nice everyone. Catch you in the morning, if not sooner.

645 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:45pm

re: #621 JasonA

Oh. That’s right, you spread something else…

Youtube Video

646 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:20:51pm

re: #641 Racer X

Well, we’re all about taking care of those poor immigrants. Why not take care of them in Mexico, and put them to work there?

Yes, that could be seen as a cost benefit.

647 brookly red  Jun 22, 2010 5:21:25pm

re: #637 Gus 802

It is what it is and it means less manufacturing jobs for the American people. In the end it only benefits the top 1 percent of Americans and bodes poorly for the future of America.

yup, well actually a lot of foreigners too… the hard facts are that things are worth what they are worth.

648 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:21:27pm

re: #645 Dark_Falcon

The cat on the bottom seems bored.

649 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:21:36pm
650 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:21:49pm

re: #637 Gus 802

It is what it is and it means less manufacturing jobs for the American people. In the end it only benefits the top 1 percent of Americans and bodes poorly for the future of America.

what’s the solution?….how do we create and maintain a robust manufacturing segment in the US?

651 ShaunP  Jun 22, 2010 5:22:26pm

re: #629 RogueOne

Wish him the best of luck. Why so far out? Second tour?

He’s not front line. He’s just finishing up the training he needs…

652 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:23:52pm

re: #639 darthstar

Funny, I hadn’t pictured you as someone who wears crocs.

they are not Crocks, but I don’t know what you call them…they have a heel and a strap…they are kind of sissified tho…6 bucks at Walgreens

653 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 5:25:19pm

re: #639 darthstar

Funny, I hadn’t pictured you as someone who wears crocs.

Please see # 493.

How did you do that?

654 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 5:25:58pm

re: #650 albusteve

what’s the solution?…how do we create and maintain a robust manufacturing segment in the US?

Do it for less than China.

Got rice?

655 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 5:26:07pm

This is interesting if others haven’t already seen it:

Rolling Stone editor: Gen. Stanley McChrystal didn’t push back

Rolling Stone’s executive editor on Tuesday said that Gen. Stanley McChrystal did not raise any objections to a new article that repeatedly quotes him criticizing the administration.

Eric Bates, the magazine’s editor, said during an interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” that McChrystal was informed of the quotes prior to its publication as part of Rolling Stone’s standard fact-checking process — and that the general did not object to or dispute any of the reporting.

Asked if McChrystal pushed back on the story, Bates responded: “No, absolutely not.”

“We ran everything by them in the fact-checking process as we always do,” the Rolling Stone editor said. “They had a sense of what was coming and it was all on the record and they spent a lot of time with our reporter, so I think they knew that they had said it.”

Also:
Rolling Stone editor: There was more we didn’t publish

On Tuesday morning, Rolling Stone Executive Editor Eric Bates suggested that the magazine gathered even more devastating information that could not be published.

“They said a lot of stuff to us off the record that’s not in the story, so we respected all those boundaries,” Bates told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

656 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:26:50pm

re: #654 ryannon

Do it for less than China.

Got rice?

no but I’ve got the Stones

657 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:27:26pm

re: #650 albusteve

what’s the solution?…how do we create and maintain a robust manufacturing segment in the US?

That would be a long answer. Quickly it would have to involve higher wages for Americans to be able to afford American made products which can’t compete with overseas wages and working conditions. Somewhere along the way the top 1 percent decided they wanted to make more and more money then ever before in our history. CEOs that don’t perform are payed millions even if they almost drive their company into bankruptcy. Sports players making 22 million dollars a year for bouncing a rubber ball for a fraction of the year. There was a time when a CEOs and Chairmen were happy with a house Connecticut and an apartment in Manhattan. Now, they all want to live like J Paul Getty.

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 5:28:12pm

re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m trying to remember the name of the General that Bush fired… anybody know who I’m talking about? Driving me nuts…

Tried to google “General fired by Bush” about 60 quintillion hits…

Eric Shinseki?

659 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:28:47pm

re: #653 wrenchwench

Please see # 493.

How did you do that?

You need more karma before we can share that with you…

660 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:29:22pm

re: #657 Gus 802

That would be a long answer. Quickly it would have to involve higher wages for Americans to be able to afford American made products which can’t compete with overseas wages and working conditions. Somewhere along the way the top 1 percent decided they wanted to make more and more money then ever before in our history. CEOs that don’t perform are payed millions even if they almost drive their company into bankruptcy. Sports players making 22 million dollars a year for bouncing a rubber ball for a fraction of the year. There was a time when a CEOs and Chairmen were happy with a house Connecticut and an apartment in Manhattan. Now, they all want to live like J Paul Getty.

thanks for that…nice post
we have priority problems in the US, and we are not taking care of each other at present

661 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:29:30pm

re: #659 JasonA

You need more karma before we can share that with you…

Seriously though, I just swipe the code from another post with a shadowboxed image and paste my link and text into it.

662 ryannon  Jun 22, 2010 5:30:04pm

re: #656 albusteve

no but I’ve got the Stones

.30 cents the pirated CD in China.

What’s your price?

663 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:31:15pm

re: #653 wrenchwench

Please see # 493.

How did you do that?

I want to know, too.

664 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 5:32:05pm

re: #292 Gus 802

I admit. I do find the call for pulling out to be rather perplexing.

I don’t.

The war stopped being fun when the CiC was a Democrat.

Suddenly, I’ve got people getting all sensible and realpolitik on me who a couple of years ago wanted us to fight to the end for the little girls of Afghanistan. With tears in our eyes and apple pie in our hearts.

Feh.

665 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 5:32:15pm

re: #663 reine.de.tout

Know what?

666 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:32:23pm

re: #662 ryannon

.30 cents the pirated CD in China.

What’s your price?


this is priceless….Mick Taylor rages
Youtube Video

667 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:32:59pm

re: #665 Amory Blaine

Know what?

How to post a link to an image, and have it come pop out of the comment, rather than open up in a new tab.

668 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 5:33:08pm

re: #293 brookly red

The British occupied India with less troops than we have in Afghanistan now…

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier OF the Queen!

669 SanFranciscoZionist  Jun 22, 2010 5:33:30pm

re: #297 Decatur Deb

Victory is when the Afghanis hand us the head of the last Taliban for a pack of Marlboros.

They really shouldn’t be smoking.

670 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 5:33:43pm
671 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2010 5:33:44pm

re: #661 JasonA

Seriously though, I just swipe the code from another post with a shadowboxed image and paste my link and text into it.

Sneaky!

Let me try.

No no no!

Thanks!

672 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 5:33:59pm

LOL More Cowbell!!!!!

673 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:35:12pm

re: #664 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t.

The war stopped being fun when the CiC was a Democrat.

Suddenly, I’ve got people getting all sensible and realpolitik on me who a couple of years ago wanted us to fight to the end for the little girls of Afghanistan. With tears in our eyes and apple pie in our hearts.

Feh.

Yes. One of the reasons could be that pulling out would make it “Obama’s failure” and the Democrats by default.

Let me restate that I said “one of the reasons” and not all before people think I’m painting with a broad brush.

674 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:35:25pm

re: #667 reine.de.tout

How to post a link to an image, and have it come pop out of the comment, rather than open up in a new tab.

Quote my 659. Delete the blockquote text and the brackets around it. Now copy the link to that image and paste it over the link in my quote. Then highlight the text and write over it with whatever you want. Viola.

675 Racer X  Jun 22, 2010 5:35:36pm

I’m reading through the Rolling Stone article. Not finding any damning direct quotes from McChrystal yet.

The article looks pretty non-biased though.
/

The general’s staff is a handpicked collection of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots, political operators and outright maniacs.

676 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:36:48pm

re: #671 wrenchwench

Sneaky!

Let me try.

No no no!

Thanks!

You have done well, apprentice.

677 RogueOne  Jun 22, 2010 5:36:54pm

re: #674 JasonA

Quote my 659. Delete the blockquote text and the brackets around it. Now copy the link to that image and paste it over the link in my quote. Then highlight the text and write over it with whatever you want. Viola.

Cheater

678 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:37:37pm

re: #677 RogueOne

Cheater

I love finding back doors.

In bed.
Just wanted to head that off at the pass.

679 Bear  Jun 22, 2010 5:38:28pm

re: #623 albusteve

Don’t forger all our electronic industry, computer,radios, tv.

680 captdiggs  Jun 22, 2010 5:39:02pm

All politics aside. This is not good.
The General officer in charge of a critical offensive suddenly dropping out of the operational command structure is not really the best situation.
Thinking of the thousands of troops there and their safety ( I know two, one, a newly minted PFC, the son of a very good friend, and the other an army Lt. Colonel ), I hope they have a game plan on a replacement.

681 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:39:55pm

re: #670 RogueOne

[Link: www.htmlcodetutorial.com…]

Thanks. I’m still totally clueless.
*sigh*

682 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:40:28pm

re: #623 albusteve

Whirlpool left Benton Harbor MI because of taxes and regulations they simply could not afford…it killed the town, hundreds of high skilled workers left with nothing…google it…corporate taxes drove them out of the country, like many others…the feds can only soak so many people to finance itself and entitlements before they close up shop…see textiles in the south east or steel up north…the feds stripped away our competativeness via taxation…who pays for all the free shit?

It’s not just that. Our workers cost alot, and its cheaper for Whirlpool to make its products in Mexico. Their priority is profit and they’ll move the jobs where the labor is cheap.

683 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:41:30pm
684 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:42:56pm

re: #683 JasonA

Your text to link…

Okay, just type in
rel=”shadowbox57601b1a” in between the end quote for the link and target, making sure there’s a space in-between at the beginning and end. That was post was just a test I didn’t mean to post, btw…

685 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:43:30pm

re: #674 JasonA

Quote my 659. Delete the blockquote text and the brackets around it. Now copy the link to that image and paste it over the link in my quote. Then highlight the text and write over it with whatever you want. Viola.


no worky for me.

I followed your instructions exactly, and got the word “Karma” which brings up a pic of that weird actor whose name I can’t recall talking about a cowbell.

I’m a lost cause on this one.

686 albusteve  Jun 22, 2010 5:43:42pm

re: #682 Dark_Falcon

It’s not just that. Our workers cost alot, and its cheaper for Whirlpool to make its products in Mexico. Their priority is profit and they’ll move the jobs where the labor is cheap.

cut out the middle man and see what you have

687 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:44:54pm

re: #685 reine.de.tout

no worky for me.

I followed your instructions exactly, and got the word “Karma” which brings up a pic of that weird actor whose name I can’t recall talking about a cowbell.

I’m a lost cause on this one.


Try what I said in 684.

688 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:46:10pm

re: #682 Dark_Falcon

It’s not just that. Our workers cost alot, and its cheaper for Whirlpool to make its products in Mexico. Their priority is profit and they’ll move the jobs where the labor is cheap.


Whirlpool gets $19 million in Taxpayer Stimulus funds, Offshore Outsources the Jobs

It can barely get greedier than this: We’re in tough economic times, so Whirlpool receives $19 million in taxpayer funds to create jobs. Then it turns around and announces it will shutter its Evansville, Indiana refrigerator plant and displace the 1,100 workers there. Disgusting.

Manufacturing in Mexico will not affect corporate taxes.

689 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #687 JasonA

Try what I said in 684.

JasonA, you’re a real sweetheart to try to tutor me, here, but I don’t quite get what you’re trying to say in your 684.

I would have to see it written out, and you can’t do that without it becoming a link
pfft.

690 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:47:12pm

re: #689 reine.de.tout

JasonA, you’re a real sweetheart to try to tutor me, here, but I don’t quite get what you’re trying to say in your 684.

I would have to see it written out, and you can’t do that without it becoming a link
pfft.

lol I know. But you see the code once you quote it, though.

691 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:47:49pm

re: #688 Gus 802

Manufacturing in Mexico will not affect corporate taxes.

It’s sickening.

692 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 5:48:52pm

re: #689 reine.de.tout

JasonA, you’re a real sweetheart to try to tutor me, here, but I don’t quite get what you’re trying to say in your 684.

I would have to see it written out, and you can’t do that without it becoming a link
pfft.

I’ll send you the code by email Reine, with instructions how to use it. We can’t post code here because it won’t show up.

693 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:50:08pm

re: #683 JasonA

.jpg” rel=”shadowbox00aca4f5”

Okay! This is what you have to make it look like. You want to insert the link to your image like you would any other link. Type rel=”shadowbox00aca4f5” just the way you see it above.

694 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:50:14pm

re: #691 Dark_Falcon

It’s sickening.

Doesn’t GM plan to move some manufacturing to China?

695 Four More Tears  Jun 22, 2010 5:50:31pm

And with that I’ll BBL.

696 Gus  Jun 22, 2010 5:51:12pm

re: #694 Gus 802

Doesn’t GM plan to move some manufacturing to China?

Ah, too late.

gmchina.com

Yep, GM. Buy American!

697 joest73  Jun 22, 2010 5:52:30pm

The spin on McChrystal started early on today on MSNBC. Maybe McChrystal believes that this administration is such a great danger to the safety of this country that he needed to speak up. You know if this happened during the Bush administration the media would have framed the talking points this way.
McChrystal was still out of line and he should have resigned early this morning.

Will Hillary Clinton make a Ted Kennedy run at a sitting President in 2012. Too bad the republicans don’t have the next Ronald Reagan….

698 Bear  Jun 22, 2010 5:53:24pm

Do you by chance recall when foreigners would do most anything for a US dollar? What about when in Nevada you received real silver dollars as change? And how many real copper pennies do you now get in change?

699 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 5:53:37pm

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

Agreed. Don’t worry, though, Obama doesn’t have the balls to accept his resignation even if he wanted to, because it wouldn’t be smart politics.

Did Spare flounce?

I can’t believe the shit I’m reading on this thread.

700 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 5:54:33pm

re: #699 Stanley Sea

Did Spare flounce?

I can’t believe the shit I’m reading on this thread.

No, he didn’t flounce.

701 joest73  Jun 22, 2010 5:59:25pm

Krauthammer was just on with Bill O’Reilly. He said that Obama should stand above this mess and refuse to take McChrystal’s resignation. It just may happen this way… and it could help the President.

702 reine.de.tout  Jun 22, 2010 5:59:46pm

re: #692 Bagua

I’ll send you the code by email Reine, with instructions how to use it. We can’t post code here because it won’t show up.

OK, great!
That sounds like a plan.

703 Amory Blaine  Jun 22, 2010 6:03:52pm

re: #701 joest73

I agree about the refusal.

704 Floral Giraffe  Jun 22, 2010 6:04:51pm

re: #430 iceweasel

Hiya Ice!
*waves*

705 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 6:06:20pm

re: #704 Floral Giraffe

Hiya Ice!
*waves*

Hey cutie! How are you? I think you had logged off last night when I said hi. Hope you’re well!

706 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 6:07:27pm
Huh. Weren’t people just criticising Obama for not having enough troops there and not taking the war seriously enough?

Now the wingnuts are opposed to having any troops there at all.

The same people who bitched about troops not being deployed quickly enough by Obama in 2009.

Wingnuts are funny. :-)

I’m blown away.

707 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 6:08:08pm

re: #706 Stanley Sea

I’m blown away.

That was Iceweasel’s quote, I’m so disturbed by the wingers here that I fucked it up.

708 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 6:08:27pm

re: #706 Stanley Sea

I’m blown away.

You haven’t even finished the thread yet, heh.
Sent you an email btw.

709 Nekama  Jun 22, 2010 6:09:53pm

Drat. Missed the fun.

710 Floral Giraffe  Jun 22, 2010 6:10:34pm

re: #705 iceweasel

Big *smooch*
I haven’t been on with you in ages?
What’s shaking?
How’s the paperwork process?

711 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 6:12:07pm

re: #710 Floral Giraffe

Big *smooch*
I haven’t been on with you in ages?
What’s shaking?
How’s the paperwork process?

Jimmah’s back in the UK, paperwork is I hope ok…if it is, I should hear in 5-10 business days, supposedly…
*smooch* back at ya! and thanks for asking!

712 Floral Giraffe  Jun 22, 2010 6:13:29pm

re: #711 iceweasel

I do miss “seeing” you!
Our hours are different, now.

713 Bagua  Jun 22, 2010 6:13:33pm

re: #702 reine.de.tout

OK, great!
That sounds like a plan.

Check you email.

714 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 6:14:39pm

re: #712 Floral Giraffe

I do miss “seeing” you!
Our hours are different, now.

Well, not for too long, I hope. Missed you too!! What’s new?

I see we have a disemvoweler now— very cool!

715 Floral Giraffe  Jun 22, 2010 6:15:42pm

re: #714 iceweasel

LOL!
I’d LOVE to be able to disemvowel some people!
Wouldn’t you?

716 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 6:17:37pm

re: #711 iceweasel

Jimmah’s back in the UK, paperwork is I hope ok…if it is, I should hear in 5-10 business days, supposedly…
*smooch* back at ya! and thanks for asking!

Oh! Didn’t know Jimmah returned. :(. So 5-10 business days you go? Or do you have a lot of stuff to clean up/pack up?

717 iceweasel  Jun 22, 2010 6:18:58pm

re: #715 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
I’d LOVE to be able to disemvowel some people!
Wouldn’t you?

YES! heh.

re: #716 Stanley Sea

Oh! Didn’t know Jimmah returned. :(. So 5-10 business days you go? Or do you have a lot of stuff to clean up/pack up?

5-10 hopefully I’ll get my visa from the consulate. Then I’m out of here!
Jimmah had to go back yesterday. :(
Thanks for asking!

718 Floral Giraffe  Jun 22, 2010 6:21:52pm

re: #717 iceweasel

Another
*smooch*
for luck.
Later, you.

720 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 6:22:45pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

It seems I’ve attracted the attention of Neo-Confederate blogger RS McCain again. Heh.

Killgore Trout Beclowns Himself

WOAH Killgore!

721 Dark_Falcon  Jun 22, 2010 6:22:55pm

re: #717 iceweasel

5-10 hopefully I’ll get my visa from the consulate. Then I’m out of here!
Jimmah had to go back yesterday. :(
Thanks for asking!

Can I ask why you two decided to make your home in the UK? If it’s none of my business, please fell free to ignore the question.

722 Spare O'Lake  Jun 22, 2010 6:31:35pm

re: #699 Stanley Sea

Did Spare flounce?

I can’t believe the shit I’m reading on this thread.

Sorry to disappoint you, asshole.
My previously announced flounce date of 2016 remains firm.

723 Stanley Sea  Jun 22, 2010 6:37:56pm

re: #722 Spare O’Lake

Sorry to disappoint you, asshole.
My previously announced flounce date of 2016 remains firm.

NICE!

724 Kefirah  Jun 22, 2010 9:50:15pm

re: #576 Bagua

my understanding based on texas civil procedure is that you would maintain the status quo [no current moratorium] when going through court proceedings: so the moratorium would not be in effect while the case is on appeal.

725 TedStriker  Jun 22, 2010 10:04:42pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. He’ll get a 7 figure advance for his memoirs now. He had to go though: It’s OK for Jay Leno to publicly mock Joe Biden but generals cannot be allowed to do so without grave damage to the chain of command.

I would have rather seen President Obama sack his ass, not only for the fallout from the RS article, but for playing his command safe with the overly restrictive ROEs.

726 robdouth  Jun 23, 2010 9:35:50am

This is sad, because according to an article in the Telegraph, McChrystal was good at “building bridges” with the afghan gov’t. Seems like stupid media hype.


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