Glenn Beck Recapitulates The John Birch Society, Says the John Birch Society

For the past couple of years as I’ve been writing about the horrible agenda of Fox News commentator Glenn Beck, I’ve noted many times that Beck’s views seem to be derived almost entirely from the hateful, paleo-right wing conspiracy theory world view of the John Birch Society — a group that has made an amazing comeback as the GOP has melted down.

Yesterday at the John Birch Society website, writer Larry Greenley made this connection completely explicit, with an article that lays out the many ways in which Glenn Beck’s ideology and paranoid obsession with communists comes directly from the Birchers. Glenn Beck is mainstreaming the ideas of this vile organization: Glenn Beck Recapitulates The John Birch Society (Google cache link).

As a longtime member of The John Birch Society (JBS), I’ve been watching the Glenn Beck TV Show closely since he moved over to Fox News in 2008. I’ve been fascinated to see how Beck has been getting progressively (sorry for the bad word choice) closer to presenting American history in the way that The John Birch Society has been doing it for over 50 years.

Last night’s show, June 24, which was an overview of communism in America, was the ultimate in complete agreement between the Beck and JBS presentations of American history.

[…]

Although this video has been available since our 50th Anniversary celebrations in 2008, we’ve changed the title to “The John Birch Society in 1958, Forerunner of the Tea Party Movement?” Take a look and see how appropriate the new title is. I believe the inclusion of this video in this article will help you see just how close the worldview of the JBS is to that of Glenn Beck in particular and the Tea Party movement in general.

It’s pretty well known that William F. Buckley was instrumental in expelling the JBS from conservative circles. But the conservative movement of today has morphed into something Buckley wouldn’t even recognize — a movement in which reasonable people are made into pariahs, extremism has become completely mainstream, and race baiters and religious fanatics are running the show.

(Hat tip: Adam Holland.)

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127 comments

1 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:07:33am

From the link:

Although this video has been available since our 50th Anniversary celebrations in 2008, we’ve changed the title to “The John Birch Society in 1958, Forerunner of the Tea Party Movement?” Take a look and see how appropriate the new title is. I believe the inclusion of this video in this article will help you see just how close the worldview of the JBS is to that of Glenn Beck in particular and the Tea Party movement in general.

Why, yes. Yes, I do believe it does.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:07:45am

Bring back The Old Nixon!

3 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:11:15am

Man, haven’t these guys heard of a thesaurus?

Synonyms for ‘progressively’: constantly, continually, steadily.

Anyway, ‘progressively’ in that paragraph does not have the same meaning as ‘progressive’ in the political sense.

Really sad when your cognitive dissonance makes a person unable to use the language well.

4 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:15:45am

How many times have we heard this?

“I didn’t see any Birchers at the Tea Parties I went to”

Well, now we have a field guide. They look like Glenn Beck, and they sound like—tea partiers.

5 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:18:07am

re: #4 wrenchwench

How many times have we heard this?

“I didn’t see any Birchers at the Tea Parties I went to”

Well, now we have a field guide. They look like Glenn Beck, and they sound like—tea partiers.

I’d say they try not to look crazy. You have to hear or read their words much of the time. They’re in the main not like Larouchites, they don’t behave like assholes in public.

6 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:20:47am

“William F. Buckley was instrumental in expelling the JBS from conservative circles”

That’s like saying that the Communist party expelled Stalinists and Russian nationalists from Party circles.

They came back with a vengeance with the collapse of the old system, just like the Birchers are coming back with the implosion of the Republican party.

7 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:27:29am
Another interesting connection is that M. Stanton Evans’ father, Medford Evans, was one of the leading writers for the (Birch) Society’s earlier magazine, American Opinion, during the 1960s and 70s.


Interesting.

8 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:27:38am

Afternoon/Evening (for our European) Lizards. Hope they day has found you well.

// BTW, if the weather doesn’t shape up here in Idaho, your Freedom Fries might be in danger.

9 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:28:07am

Does it get any better? The National Anthem being played at the World Cup and President Clinton singing it with all his heart…
Go USA!

10 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:28:22am

re: #8 Bubblehead II

Afternoon/Evening (for our European) Lizards. Hope they day has found you well.

// BTW, if the weather doesn’t shape up here in Idaho, your Freedom Fries might be in danger.


Pimf!

11 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:28:34am
One of the highlights of last night’s show was Ezra Taft Benson, Secretary of Agriculture under President Eisenhower and later the leader of the LDS Church, and his statements in the 1960s about the Communist threat to America. It turns out that Benson was a good friend of Robert Welch in the 1960s. Furthermore, Benson’s son Reed became an employee of the JBS in 1962, and eventually worked in the Washington, DC office of the JBS in the late 1960s and early 70s.

Ezra Taft Benson gave a solid endorsement of The John Birch Society in his major speech, “Stand Up for Freedom” (online video of speech), in 1966 as he explained how he had encouraged his son, Reed, to work for the JBS. Here’s a 53-second video clip from that part of the speech:

Heh.

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:29:51am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Interesting.

There are a lot of father-son connections among these people. It seems to be important to pass along the heritage….

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:31:17am

I wonder when the MSM is going to start paying attention to this.
Maybe they’ll wait until the next Presidential election and ask Republican candidates to denounce Glenn Beck and the Tea Parties for their connections to the Birch Society. It’s a no win situation for Republican candidates.

14 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:31:57am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Were there links in that post? Because if there was, they didn’t come through.

15 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:32:27am

re: #12 wrenchwench

There are a lot of father-son connections among these people. It seems to be important to pass along the heritage

Yeah, the Koch brothers as well. It does seem to be an inherited trait. I guess if you’re raised believing these conspiracies they seem normal.

16 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:33:13am
But the conservative movement of today has morphed into something Buckley wouldn’t even recognize — a movement in which reasonable people are made into pariahs, extremism has become completely mainstream, and race baiters and religious fanatics are running the show.

OK boys and girls, check out a possible new place to go —
The Modern Whig Party.

Recently merging with the American Centrist Party:

UPDATES
JUN 22, 2010

We are pleased to announce that one of the largest moderate political movements in the nation has unanimously voted to merge with the Modern Whig Party. This means that we are being joined by a list of about 16,000 Americans who had initially signed on in support of the American Centrist Party. This merger is a natural fit as we both have been working toward a viable, mainstream and non-fringe political movement that values common sense, rational solutions ahead of partisan bickering and ideology.

On a practical level, we are receiving an infusion of a new core of moderate leaders throughout the nation. While the Modern Whig Party was revived by post-9/11 veterans, the effects of this merger further demonstrates the diverse makeup of this political movement. Work is now underway in other areas to expand our reach and maximize our potential while maintaining a foot in reality in terms of the continuing difficult task ahead. More information to come.

17 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:33:22am

re: #14 Bubblehead II

Were there links in that post? Because if there was, they didn’t come through.

I left out the links. Just follow Charles’ link to JBS and you can get the links for over there.

18 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:37:41am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

I wonder when the MSM is going to start paying attention to this.
Maybe they’ll wait until the next Presidential election and ask Republican candidates to denounce Glenn Beck and the Tea Parties for their connections to the Birch Society. It’s a no win situation for Republican candidates.

If they’re smart, though, they’ll denounce the JBS and take the hit to their base. It’ll be a lesser hit and they can try to mend fences after the election if they win.

19 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:37:52am

If you panel your bathroom with the right wood (or construct an outhouse from it) you can join the Birch John Society.

When I was a kid, there was a Bircher living across the street - we kids thought he actually worked for the JBS - and he had a little black volkswagen, and it had a “Buy American” bumper sticker on it.

20 teleskiguy  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:38:32am

Talkin’ John Birch Paranoid Blues
by Bob Dylan

Well, I was feelin’ sad and feelin’ blue
I didn’t know what in the world I wus gonna do
Them Communists they wus comin’ around
They wus in the air
They wus on the ground
They wouldn’t gimme no peace …

So I run down most hurriedly
And joined up with the John Birch Society
I got me a secret membership card
And started off a-walkin’ down the road
Yee-hoo, I’m a real John Bircher now!
Look out you Commies!

Now we all agree with Hitler’s views
Although he killed six million Jews
It don’t matter too much that he was a Fascist
At least you can’t say he was a Communist!
That’s to say like if you got a cold you take a shot of malaria

Well, I wus lookin’ everywhere for them gol-darned Reds
I got up in the mornin’ ’n’ looked under my bed
Looked in the sink, behind the door
Looked in the glove compartment of my car
Couldn’t find ’em …

I wus lookin’ high an’ low for them Reds everywhere
I wus lookin’ in the sink an’ underneath the chair
I looked way up my chimney hole
I even looked deep down inside my toilet bowl
They got away …

Well, I wus sittin’ home alone an’ started to sweat
Figured they wus in my T.V. set
Peeked behind the picture frame
Got a shock from my feet, hittin’ right up in the brain
Them Reds caused it!
I know they did … them hard-core ones

Well, I quit my job so I could work all alone
Then I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes
Followed some clues from my detective bag
And discovered they wus red stripes on the American flag!
That ol’ Betsy Ross …

Well, I investigated all the books in the library
Ninety percent of ’em gotta be burned away
I investigated all the people that I knowed
Ninety-eight percent of them gotta go
The other two percent are fellow Birchers … just like me

Now Eisenhower, he’s a Russian spy
Lincoln, Jefferson and that Roosevelt guy
To my knowledge there’s just one man
That’s really a true American: George Lincoln Rockwell
I know for a fact he hates Commies cus he picketed the movie Exodus

Well, I fin’ly started thinkin’ straight
When I run outa things to investigate
Couldn’t imagine doin’ anything else
So now I’m sittin’ home investigatin’ myself!
Hope I don’t find out anything … hmm, great God!

Copyright © 1970 by Special Rider Music; renewed 1998 by Special Rider Music

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:43:29am

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

I wish. They should have been doing that from the get-go. But the pundits on the right seem to be embracing this new JBS resurgence, not even appearing to blink at their inclusion in the recent CPAC.

I am not holding out hope that the politicians will somehow find that sliver of sanity that most of the right wing media seems to have discarded.

22 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:43:59am

re: #20 teleskiguy

Brutal stuff, and great too. Bob Dylan is a true talent.

23 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:45:20am

OT: Happy to be here and finally able to post on LGF after waiting so long! Been a lurker for awhile and I like this site.

Back on topic: I do not understand why Republicans have apparently decided that alienating every potential moderate voter is a good thing. I don’t think the tea party is powerful enough to get the kind of “change” (oh yes, I went there) they are looking for in November without some form of outside help.

The more extreme they get, the more harm they do than good.

24 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:45:54am

re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth

I am not holding out hope that the politicians will somehow find that sliver of sanity that most of the right wing media seems to have discarded.

I do not think any D or R politician has much sanity left.

All I see is lust after power, power, power.

25 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:47:01am

re: #23 dragonfire1981

Check out the Modern Whigs!

See the link above in No. 16

26 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:47:21am

re: #23 dragonfire1981

If you’re a newbie, you get to fetch beers. Welcome.

27 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:47:56am

re: #23 dragonfire1981

And Welcome to LGF, an island of sanity.

28 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:48:12am

Wow!!

29 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:49:27am

re: #23 dragonfire1981

OT: Happy to be here and finally able to post on LGF after waiting so long! Been a lurker for awhile and I like this site.

Back on topic: I do not understand why Republicans have apparently decided that alienating every potential moderate voter is a good thing. I don’t think the tea party is powerful enough to get the kind of “change” (oh yes, I went there) they are looking for in November without some form of outside help.

The more extreme they get, the more harm they do than good.

It’s very difficult for politicians to distance themselves from their base. The base chooses candidates in the primaries, and provides key activists and money. Most politicians don’t have the ability to steer the base back to sanity, and most of those that do are fearful of making the attempt and failing (which would leave the person who tried and failed without a party).

30 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:49:40am

re: #27 Ojoe

And Welcome to LGF, an island of sanity.

I’m not sane…

31 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:49:42am

re: #23 dragonfire1981

Welcome.

32 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:50:38am

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

Well compared to some politicians you certainly are.

33 joest73  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:52:35am

The John Birch Youtube video became viral on the usual blogs before the 2008 election. I wouldn’t be surprised if Beck watched the video and decided that this was the direction that he needed to take his act. I haven’t watched Beck much in the past few months but when I do he seems to be pushing book after book more than Oprah.

What I’d like to know more about is the soap opera on talk radio. Mark Levin is the only big conservative talk radio host to denounce the JBS. The subject is too deep for Hannity and Savage is just a crazy old guy. Levin hates Beck…to the point of calling him a “back bencher” daily on his radio show. Hannity tries to ignore Beck. Somehow Rush is respected by Levin, Hannity, and Beck. Rush called O’Reilly “Ted Baxter”. You could write a book on this stuff…..

34 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:52:56am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the Koch brothers as well. It does seem to be an inherited trait. I guess if you’re raised believing these conspiracies they seem normal.

Until you go out into the real world. I was raised in a “raciist” home. My Father despised Black/Hispanics/Asians, ect. My Mother turned a tolerant eye toward that (my dads beliefs) and suggested I form my own opinion, based upon my own experience. But even she was infected. She would refere to children of Black Couples as Pickaninny.

It didn’t take me long to realize just what my Parents were. On the other hand, I did fall completely into the survivalist pit. Want a book (scan) on how to make a (machine shop required) hand gun or grease gun? Perhaps, Poisonous gas? Yep got that to.

But I did manage to also crawl out.

////// Want to buy dome seeds?

35 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:53:06am

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

I’m not sane…

Yes you are, just not fully sane. But most creative types aren’t fully sane, and its likely that they need to be a bit unstable to be creative. Stable is dull.

36 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:56:56am

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

Stable is dull.

In structural engineering, for a building to be stable, all the forces have to sum out to:

ZERO.

LOL

37 webevintage  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:57:46am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

I wonder when the MSM is going to start paying attention to this.

They are too busy worrying why Rolling Stone magazine does better reporting then them and arguing about whether or not Drudge should set himself on fire and if what they say on semi-private listservs is really anyone’s damn business.

38 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:58:28am
I believe the inclusion of this video in this article will help you see just how close the worldview of the JBS is to that of Glenn Beck in particular and the Tea Party movement in general.

QFMFT!

:sigh:

39 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

I’m not sane…

And Sanity is exactly what?

By certain (just casual questions) opinion polls at work.

I am a fucking nut.

Shrugs.

40 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:02:03pm

re: #37 webevintage

They are too busy worrying why Rolling Stone magazine does better reporting then them and arguing about whether or not Drudge should set himself on fire and if what they say on semi-private listservs is really anyone’s damn business.

It’s just like “Climategate,” outing a bunch of private and out of context emails to try to damage the reporter. Reading what I did in some of his columns, he was fairly reporting conservative news and views and wasn’t letting his personal opinions really effect his reportage.

41 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:02:27pm

re: #39 Bubblehead II

And Sanity is exactly what?

By certain (just casual questions) opinion polls at work.

I am a fucking nut.

Shrugs.

Big deal… I more of a nut than you are…

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:02:36pm

re: #39 Bubblehead II

And Sanity is exactly what?

By certain (just casual questions) opinion polls at work.

I am a fucking nut.

Shrugs.

I’m fine. The rest of the world though…

43 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:04:19pm

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

Q: What part of a car causes the most accidents?

A: The nut that holds the steering wheel.

44 teleskiguy  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:05:26pm

Being the rational cool ski dude that I am, I cannot comment on this subject as it throws me into a tizzy, I become stark raving mad and start blurting wholly unintelligible grunts and splurts.

So, I leave you with General Jack D. Ripper:

“I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.”

45 webevintage  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:11:49pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

It’s just like “Climategate,” outing a bunch of private and out of context emails to try to damage the reporter. Reading what I did in some of his columns, he was fairly reporting conservative news and views and wasn’t letting his personal opinions really effect his reportage.

Indeed.
Conversations even on a semi-private listerv should be left between the participants and really it is really a scummy thing to leak what people who have trusted you might write.

I still think Weigel painted a big bullseye on his back by not sharing Palin’s outrage over Joe Mcginniss moving next door to peer into Willow’s bedroom window. Tucker Carlson and the media blog FishbowlDC is involved in this and maybe Weigel really offered his resignation once they went after his girlfriend.
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Well this was supposed to just be a drive by on a Sat afternoon….
I’m off to clean the kitchen (god, it is soooo hot out) and make a lemon chess pie.
Have a nice day guys….

46 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:12:29pm

BBL

47 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:14:59pm

Soccer players should be allowed to carry bats. Just sayin’.

48 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:15:11pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

Yes you are, just not fully sane. But most creative types aren’t fully sane, and its likely that they need to be a bit unstable to be creative. Stable is dull.

Are you a good nut or a bad nut?

49 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:16:50pm

re: #6 ralphieboy

“William F. Buckley was instrumental in expelling the JBS from conservative circles”

That’s like saying that the Communist party expelled Stalinists and Russian nationalists from Party circles.

They came back with a vengeance with the collapse of the old system, just like the Birchers are coming back with the implosion of the Republican party.

In collapse, organizations tend to become more extreme. Witness the trajectory of “students for a democratic society”. wikipedia on Mark Rudd…

When the general membership of SDS refused to go in a more violent and pro-Communist direction, Rudd together with some other prominent SDS members formed a radical, violence-oriented organization, referring to themselves collectively as “Weatherman”
50 mj  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:17:11pm

Long article in the Weekly Standard on Beck and the Tea Part:

The Two Faces of the Tea Party

Rick Santelli, Glenn Beck, and the future of the populist insurgency.

…Read and watch enough Glenn Beck, and you realize that he is not only introducing new authors and ideas into public life, he is reintroducing old ideas. Some very old ideas. The notion that America’s leaders are indistinguishable from America’s enemies has a long and sorry history. In the 1950s it led Robert Welch, the head of the John Birch Society, to proclaim that President Dwight Eisenhower was a Communist sympathizer. For this, William F. Buckley Jr. famously denounced Welch and severed the Birchers’ ties to mainstream conservatism. The group was ostracized for decades.

But not everyone denounced Welch. One author, the Mormon autodidact W. Cleon Skousen, continued to support the Birchers as he penned books on politics and the American founding. And Skousen continued to believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that American political, social, and economic elites were working with the Communists to foist a world government on the United States.

Glenn Beck is a Skousenite. During the “We Surround Them” program, he urged his audience to read Skousen’s 5000 Year Leap (1981), for which he has written a foreword, and The Real George Washington (1991). “The 5000 Year Leap is essential to understanding why our Founders built this Republic the way they did,” the author writes in Glenn Beck’s Common Sense. More controversially, Beck has recommended Skousen’s Naked Communist (1958) and Naked Capitalist (1970), which lay out the writer’s paranoid scenarios in detail. The latter book, for example, draws on Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope (1966), which argues that the history of the 20th century is the product of secret societies in conflict. “Carroll Quigley laid open the plan in Tragedy and Hope,” says a character in Beck’s new novel, The Overton Window. “The only hope to avoid the tragedy of war was to bind together the economies of the world to foster global stability and peace.”

For Beck, conspiracy theories are not aberrations. They are central to his worldview. They are the natural consequence of assuming that the world hangs by a thread, and that everyone is out to get you. On his television program, Beck promised to “find out what’s true and what’s not with the FEMA concentration camps”—referring to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, a federal bureaucracy that chiefly funnels relief funds to victims of natural disasters, and is more commonly (and accurately) thought of as punchless. Beck later acknowledged that his staff could not find any evidence for such camps.

Beck has urged his viewers to read The Coming Insurrection, an impenetrable political tract by a French Marxist group called The Invisible Committee that has no clear relationship to U.S. politics (or to reality). In Glenn Beck’s Common Sense, the author writes that “efforts are now also being made to empower the State to retain, test, and research the blood and DNA of newborn babies.” The plot of The Overton Window is one big conspiracy theory in which the United States government, Wall Street, Madison Avenue, and the Trilateral Commission are all plotting an antidemocratic coup. It is a fever-dream that Oliver Stone would envy..

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com…]

51 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:19:28pm

Half-time. USA down 1-0 against Ghana.

Why? Why do we have to suffer like this in every single game?

52 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:19:39pm

re: #45 webevintage

Indeed.
Conversations even on a semi-private listerv should be left between the participants and really it is really a scummy thing to leak what people who have trusted you might write.

I totally agree with this. But as someone who’s been the target of haters and stalkers on the web, literally for years, it’s incredibly naive to expect that emails posted to a listserv will remain private.

The inherently anonymous nature of the web does a great job of enabling stalkers and scumbags of all stripes. If you’re a public person, you’re going to be a target, and you need to understand that and deal with it appropriately.

53 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:20:07pm

re: #51 Nimed

Half-time. USA down 1-0 against Ghana.

Why? Why do we have to suffer like this in every single game?

We need to cut off any aid we give them.
/

54 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:24:37pm

OT - (but a carry over from the last thread)…

I was just reading over the last threads remaining comments on unemployment insurance and such, and the thing I noticed, no where was there really any discussion on accountability. I have no problem with anyone receiving benefits of sorts, but I know for a fact in Colorado, there is no real accountability… the state doesn’t have any real way to follow up on the job seekers to verify that the unemployed person is making an honest effort in looking for work. And the Colorado job assistance program stinks, there is nary anything above unskilled employment opportunities in their data base.

It would be so simple to set up a “link” between employers and their HR departments and the state… the HR department simply sends the state the SS# of any applicant, hired or not, and the state employment office records that transaction on the beneficiary’s unemployment account… instant proof of at least some sort job seeking activity available for all.

Right now, anyone can game the system for the full amount of time that assistance is available… it’s as easy as making a phone call every two weeks and answering “yes” to all automatic questions.

Yes, you are libel for your answers, but they don’t have the time or the staff to follow up on any of this.

One simple transaction would add some over all accountability to the whole process…

Any problem with that?

55 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:25:51pm

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

We need to cut off any aid we give them.
/

Maybe make aid dependent on the naturalization of the best players of each country. Need help, Ghana? We’ll take Muntari, kthx.

56 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:26:34pm

re: #54 Walter L. Newton


57 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:27:11pm

re: #56 swamprat

[Video]

Videos don’t stream well over my DSL up here in the mountains… what was it you were trying to say.

58 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:29:05pm

re: #55 Nimed

Maybe make aid dependent on the naturalization of the best players of each country. Need help, Ghana? We’ll take Muntari, kthx.

What is the kid who signed a million dollar contract at age 15? Adu? He trained in the town I grew up in.

59 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:29:36pm

re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar

The kids name…pimf.

60 Bubblehead II  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:34:11pm

Night Lizards. You piss me off, You validate me, You just are. Thanks.

Respectfully

Bubblehead II

61 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:37:11pm
It’s pretty well known that William F. Buckley was instrumental in expelling the JBS from conservative circles. But the conservative movement of today has morphed into something Buckley wouldn’t even recognize

Buckley’s body was even cold before the extremists hijacked his movement. Bill, some of us have not forgotten what you wrought and how we stood athwart history yelling “Stop!” This too, shall pass. Your voices and others like it will take the movement and the party back. We even have our own Cato-led militia …

62 Gang of One  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:38:33pm

re: #61 Gang of One

” … was NOT even … “

PIMF and all that.

63 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:39:05pm

To work… to work… it’s off to work we go… back after 11:00 pm… if I’m still breathing…

64 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:39:25pm

Out for a bit.

65 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:41:40pm

re: #51 Nimed

Half-time. USA down 1-0 against Ghana.

Why? Why do we have to suffer like this in every single game?

And why does this other team put on white jerseys at halftime…i thought we weren’t allowed to sub an entire team…

66 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:41:55pm

William Buckley? We need Lord Buckley:

67 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:45:40pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

Videos don’t stream well over my DSL up here in the mountains… what was it you were trying to say.

The unemployment scene from “mel brooks, History of the world”

Occupation?

Stand up philosopher.

Oh. a bullshit artist…. Did you bullshit last week? (no) Well, did you try to bullshit last week?..etc

68 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:47:13pm

penalty kick!!

69 bratwurst  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:47:17pm

re: #66 ralphieboy

I prefer THIS Nazz:

70 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:47:18pm

PENALTY!

71 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:48:07pm

GOOO000OOOAAALL!

72 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:48:13pm

goooaaal!

73 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:48:24pm

Gotta go again. BBL.

74 justaminute  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:48:47pm

Goal!! Go USA!

75 McSpiff  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:50:05pm

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

If only they could find a programmer willing to implement that… do I sense an opportunity for Walter?

76 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 12:52:13pm

re: #69 bratwurst

I prefer THIS Nazz:

[Video]


Wheredja think they copped the name?

77 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:05:29pm

By all means;

Welcome mrs Pammy.

78 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:07:29pm

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

Any problem with that?

I´ve been gaming welfare systems way more intrusive than that for nearly all of my working life, including ones which do what you imagined and worse, and as a professional I tell you the problem is that there is a bureaucracy which attempts to control your behavior in the first place. There is no reason why the government cannot just hand out everyone their share without wanting to know what they do with their time.

79 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:10:09pm

re: #76 ralphieboy

Wheredja think they copped the name?

“THE NAZZ”
by Lord Buckley

Now look at all you cats and kitties out there whippin’ and wailin’ and jumpin’ up and down and suckin’ up all that juice and pattin’ each other on the back and hippin’ each other who the greatest cat in the world is: Mr. Malenkov, Mr. Talenkov, Mr. Eisenhower, Mr. Wozenweezer, Mr. Wisenwoser, Mr. Woodhill, Mr. Beachill an’ Mr. Churchill and all them hills gonna’ get you straight. If they can’t get you straight, they know a cat that knows a cat who’ll straighten you. But I’m gonna put a cat on you, was the coolest, grooviest, sweetest, wailinest, strongest, swinginest cat that ever stomped on this jumpin’ green sphere and they called this here cat the Naz.


You should read the whole thing.

80 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:10:10pm

re: #52 Charles

I totally agree with this. But as someone who’s been the target of haters and stalkers on the web, literally for years, it’s incredibly naive to expect that emails posted to a listserv will remain private.

The inherently anonymous nature of the web does a great job of enabling stalkers and scumbags of all stripes. If you’re a public person, you’re going to be a target, and you need to understand that and deal with it appropriately.

Considering that what he said on the listserv really wasn’t that far out there, I think Weigel’s biggest error was in trusting WaPo to be an honorable and fair employer.

Considering some of the things George Will writes, right out in the open, it’s astounding that they keep Will on and not Weigel. The absurdity of it all is highlighted even further when you consider that WaPo claims to have known so little about Weigel and his views. They knew. They even liked him… until the Palinites and JBS’ers wanted blood. WaPo of course had to oblige them. That’s their audience now.

The once great paper is now a right wing rag, not worth the paper it’s printed on. Another formerly great institution laid low by desperate and unhinged men.

81 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:12:16pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

I´ve been gaming welfare systems way more intrusive than that for nearly all of my working life, including ones which do what you imagined and worse, and as a professional I tell you the problem is that there is a bureaucracy which attempts to control your behavior in the first place. There is no reason why the government cannot just hand out everyone their share without wanting to know what they do with their time.

Your share is what you earn, and some help when you try to earn but have no luck.

Your logo is a statement.

82 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:16:50pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

WTF?

83 researchok  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:18:11pm

re: #81 lostlakehiker

Your share is what you earn, and some help when you try to earn but have no luck.

Your logo is a statement.

He doesn’t offer much in the way of nuance, subtlety or ambiguity.

You gotta give him credit for that.

84 Nimed  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:22:16pm

Overtime. The referee has been kind to the US for a change. 30 more min. I hope this doesn’t come to penalty shootouts.

85 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:24:40pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

re: #81 lostlakehiker

The government’s job is not control us, or to give us our share… The government’s job is to remove stumbling blocks, and to encourage the population to thrive. This is crucial. A government helps the population.

The government should act in a symbiotic relationship with the population, and not act as a parasite.

86 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:25:33pm

re: #84 Nimed

Overtime. The referee has been kind to the US for a change. 30 more min. I hope this doesn’t come to penalty shootouts.

This is soccer, heck, the penalty shots are the only parts I find halfway exciting.

87 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:26:06pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

I´ve been gaming welfare systems way more intrusive than that for nearly all of my working life.

what does that mean? are you in IT/security?

88 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:28:14pm

re: #87 Aceofwhat?

Unless I read that wrong, he meant he’s a leech on society, and not even a little shy about it.

Or he’s some kind of consultant.

I don’t get that post at all, but it seems to indicate an unrepentant thief.

89 tradewind  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:28:22pm

re: #85 swamprat
Ask the residents of LA , and they’ll be happy to tell you how practiced the government is in the art of Stumbling Blocks.

90 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:28:55pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

I´ve been gaming welfare systems way more intrusive than that for nearly all of my working life, including ones which do what you imagined and worse, and as a professional I tell you the problem is that there is a bureaucracy which attempts to control your behavior in the first place. There is no reason why the government cannot just hand out everyone their share without wanting to know what they do with their time.

Who determines what every person’s “share” is?
And from where (or from whom) would the money be collected to apportion to everyone their “share”?

For “gamers” of the system (not those who genuinely need it) “welfare” means simply that other people are financing your lifestyle. I have no problem with government putting reasonable requirements on the use of that money the government has collected from other people.

91 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:30:02pm

re: #88 Fozzie Bear

Unless I read that wrong, he meant he’s a leech on society, and not even a little shy about it.

Or he’s some kind of consultant.

I don’t get that post at all, but it seems to indicate an unrepentant thief.

That’s about how I read it, too
Unbelievable.

92 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:31:36pm

re: #89 tradewind

The government is frequently confused about its role, in relation to the citizens “under” it. But when a parasite weakens the host, the parasite also suffers.

There is no free lunch

93 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:34:41pm

re: #84 Nimed

Overtime. The referee has been kind to the US for a change. 30 more min. I hope this doesn’t come to penalty shootouts.

agree.

my other replay soapbox: yellow cards are like technical fouls in basketball. they can be rescinded after the match by a committee. or they ought to be.

and crap. goal for Ghana…

94 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:35:32pm

re: #88 Fozzie Bear

Unless I read that wrong, he meant he’s a leech on society, and not even a little shy about it.

Or he’s some kind of consultant.

I don’t get that post at all, but it seems to indicate an unrepentant thief.

yeah, this is me doing my damndest to presume the best of people…

95 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:36:06pm

re: #78 Sacred Plants

pls answer my question

96 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:36:46pm

He’s busy defrauding society. He’s a “professional”, after all.

97 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:38:11pm

Actually, he’s probably just a troll. The name and avatar choice seems designed to make him seem “liberal”, and he’s embodying a caricature of the role.

My guess is someone with an unhinged hatred of all things left of center.

98 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:38:46pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

Who determines what every person’s “share” is?
And from where (or from whom) would the money be collected to apportion to everyone their “share”?

For “gamers” of the system (not those who genuinely need it) “welfare” means simply that other people are financing your lifestyle. I have no problem with government putting reasonable requirements on the use of that money the government has collected from other people.

I’m not going to even engage the rest of that illogical screed until one of us gets a clarification on “gaming the system”…

99 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:40:21pm

Geez it’s sooooo slow here today.

I think i’m going to close the laptop and just enjoy the sunshine. It would appear that’s what all the other lizards are doing.

100 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:40:32pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

Actually, he’s probably just a troll. The name and avatar choice seems designed to make him seem “liberal”, and he’s embodying a caricature of the role.

My guess is someone with an unhinged hatred of all things left of center.

nice try…dude is arguing for unlimited welfare…my guess is someone with an unhinged hatred of all things right of center!

101 tradewind  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:40:58pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout
re: #92 swamprat
Agreed. And yet, I’m willing to bet that there are still some who are howling ’ unfair ’ that CA has finally ruled that casinos are not really the best place to spend a welfare check.

102 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:41:16pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Geez it’s sooo slow here today.

I think i’m going to close the laptop and just enjoy the sunshine. It would appear that’s what all the other lizards are doing.

i can’t stop watching the US, even though i love to rag on soccer.

but yeah, after that i’m going to work out…have a good one, Fozz…

103 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:41:31pm

re: #100 Aceofwhat?

nice try…dude is arguing for unlimited welfare…my guess is someone with an unhinged hatred of all things right of center!

I would agree, but the argument is so extreme it strikes me as an attempt to caricature the left. Or, you could be right, and it’s somebody way off the deep end.

104 tradewind  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:41:50pm

re: #98 Aceofwhat?
’ Gaming the system’: what California welfare recipients used to be allowed to do. Literally. In casinos.

105 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:42:03pm

re: #103 Fozzie Bear

Seems more like a hamhanded trolling attempt.

106 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:44:18pm

Compromise. Laptop still open, chilling in the sun.

107 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:46:02pm

re: #105 Fozzie Bear

Seems more like a hamhanded trolling attempt.

yeah…although i recognize the poster…they’ve been around for a bit. this was out of left field…

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:46:22pm

Cannot get the US/Ghana game on German TV. listening to it on radio, which I find only marginally less boring than watching…

109 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:46:59pm

I got a buddy here in Germany who has made it his life goal to game the welfare system. I wish him the best of luck at it.

110 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:47:46pm

re: #109 ralphieboy

I got a buddy here in Germany who has made it his life goal to game the welfare system.

why? i don’t get that.

111 Cheechako  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:48:19pm

I know it’s late in the thread but can someone clarify something for me. I thought Unemployment Insurance was a certain percentage of the employers total payroll. And that the employee did not directly pay into the UI system. Is this correct?

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:48:37pm

re: #110 Aceofwhat?

why? i don’t get that.

He dedided it beats working. Took his money outta the bank, hid it in his mattress and is enjoying an early retirement.

113 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:49:46pm

re: #111 Cheechako

I know it’s late in the thread but can someone clarify something for me. I thought Unemployment Insurance was a certain percentage of the employers total payroll. And that the employee did not directly pay into the UI system. Is this correct?

yes, that’s a more accurate way to put it.

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:50:14pm

re: #111 Cheechako

I know it’s late in the thread but can someone clarify something for me. I thought Unemployment Insurance was a certain percentage of the employers total payroll. And that the employee did not directly pay into the UI system. Is this correct?


Consider it a part of the employee’s (potential) wages they they do not receive directly, like Social Security or withholding tax.

115 swamprat  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:50:40pm

re: #104 tradewind

re: #105 Fozzie Bear

Sacred Plants is probably a social worker, trying to help the people who come to him, in the best way he can.

116 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:53:46pm

re: #112 ralphieboy

He dedided it beats working. Took his money outta the bank, hid it in his mattress and is enjoying an early retirement.

huh. i’m always curious about the rationale such people spin to themselves about why they aren’t really “stealing”…

117 Cheechako  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:54:20pm

re: #114 ralphieboy

Consider it a part of the employee’s (potential) wages they they do not receive directly, like Social Security or withholding tax.


That’s what I thought. I always told my seasonal employees to not hesitate to collect unemployment as that funds were taken off the top in my Agency and that if had that money I would be happy to continue their employment.

118 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 1:57:29pm

re: #116 Aceofwhat?

huh. i’m always curious about the rationale such people spin to themselves about why they aren’t really “stealing”…

He useed to work as a dispatcher for a temp agency and his experiences there led him to develop a rationale that the entire capitalist system is just a systematized rip-off of working people, so he has decided to game the system as an unemployed person rather than as an employee.

Like I said, I wish him the best of luck at it.

119 Michael McBacon  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 3:24:06pm

re: #76 ralphieboy

Wheredja think they copped the name?

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the band got their name from the Yardbirds song, “The Nazz Are Blue”.

120 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 3:24:52pm

re: #111 Cheechako

I know it’s late in the thread but can someone clarify something for me. I thought Unemployment Insurance was a certain percentage of the employers total payroll. And that the employee did not directly pay into the UI system. Is this correct?

It’s not a percentage of total payroll. Keep on reading!

Federal unemployment tax (FUTA) is 0.8% of the first $7,000 of each employee’s wages. State unemployment tax (SUI) is a variable percentage of a state-mandated amount of each employee’s wages. In Ohio, for example, depending on an employer’s experience rating*, it can be anywhere from 0.5% to 9%, on the first $9,000. Kentucky uses the first $8,000, Indiana the first $7,000.

*Experience rating—it’s what you think it is. It compares the employer’s claims filed vs. what the employer has paid in.

As you might expect, unemployment taxes effect certain types of employers more than others. Restaurants, particularly fast fooderies, chain retail, etc., who employ larger amounts of high-turnover and lower-paid employees, pay much more as a percentage of their payroll than medical offices, CPAs, lawyers (ptui), high tech, and such.

121 Cheechako  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 4:54:45pm

re: #120 ClaudeMonet

It’s not a percentage of total payroll. Keep on reading!

Federal unemployment tax (FUTA) is 0.8% of the first $7,000 of each employee’s wages. State unemployment tax (SUI) is a variable percentage of a state-mandated amount of each employee’s wages. In Ohio, for example, depending on an employer’s experience rating*, it can be anywhere from 0.5% to 9%, on the first $9,000. Kentucky uses the first $8,000, Indiana the first $7,000.

*Experience rating—it’s what you think it is. It compares the employer’s claims filed vs. what the employer has paid in.

As you might expect, unemployment taxes effect certain types of employers more than others. Restaurants, particularly fast fooderies, chain retail, etc., who employ larger amounts of high-turnover and lower-paid employees, pay much more as a percentage of their payroll than medical offices, CPAs, lawyers (ptui), high tech, and such.

Thanks for the info.

122 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:01:56pm

re: #81 lostlakehiker

Your logo is a statement.

Click it!

123 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:10:53pm

re: #87 Aceofwhat?

what does that mean? are you in IT/security?

Since I cannot freely announce in the market what I am in, I am a freedom fighter. Ain´t that obvious?

124 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:22:30pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

Who determines what every person’s “share” is?
And from where (or from whom) would the money be collected to apportion to everyone their “share”?

For “gamers” of the system (not those who genuinely need it) “welfare” means simply that other people are financing your lifestyle. I have no problem with government putting reasonable requirements on the use of that money the government has collected from other people.

Neither am I interested to live off your income, nor do I want to know off whom you live with that. The fact of the matter is that in this economy we all live off the fossile resources, and the wealth they generate when they are not preserved for the future. I want my share of that, not only that of the environmental consequences. It seems the appropriate method to determine how much everyone´s share is is being called elections.

125 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:26:20pm

re: #85 swamprat

re: #81 lostlakehiker

The government’s job is not control us, or to give us our share… The government’s job is to remove stumbling blocks, and to encourage the population to thrive. This is crucial. A government helps the population.

The government should act in a symbiotic relationship with the population, and not act as a parasite.

That´s how I would describe a government which collects all the fossile wealth and does not freely hand out anything. Rumor has it they can be identified by their behavior to name entire countries after ruling families.

126 Sacred Plants  Sat, Jun 26, 2010 11:30:27pm

re: #82 Fozzie Bear

Boo!

127 Sacred Plants  Sun, Jun 27, 2010 2:52:32am

re: #118 ralphieboy

That might explain why the Wagnerian Lady in Muskoka appeared more fiscally conservative than the teabaggers.

/


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