David Frum Replies to Vindictive Blogger John Hawkins

David Frum is finding out just how mean-spirited and vindictive the right wing blogosphere can be, as his request to join the “conservative Blogads network” is rejected by dim bulb John Hawkins: Responding to John Hawkins.

Observe a few things:

1) Observe that Hawkins does not say, “We denied FrumForum admission to the conservative hive because they are not conservatives.” He did not say that because it would be too obviously ludicrous to do so. His complaint rather is that we are conservatives who do too much self-criticism.

[T]he mainstream media loves “conservatives” and “Republicans” who will trash whomever the Left hates most. So, if you’re willing to talk about how Sarah Palin is a hick, Glenn Beck is a crank, Rush Limbaugh is bad for the country, and the Tea Party is bad for democracy, the mainstream media will reward you – and because conservatives pride themselves on being open minded, they’ll all too often give you a pass for your atrocious behavior — especially since the MSM doesn’t insist you play their game all the time. As long as you’re willing to say what they want about the people they hate the most, they’ll reward you with a cover story at Newsweek and then in your off time, you can churn out a few articles to point gullible conservatives towards while you’re trying to guilt them into taking you seriously by crying “epistemic closure!”

Hawkins does not argue that these statements are false – that e.g. Glenn Beck is not a crank. His point is that regardless of truth, these criticisms should not occur. Or anyway, that no conservative should engage in them. Our job is to fall into line and not notice that Beck is in fact a crank or that Palin is not well-informed or that the Tea Party has saddled the Republicans with awful and probably doomed candidates like Sharron Angle and Rand Paul.

Hawkins’ attitude here reminds me of an ancient definition of a political party: “It doesn’t matter what damn lie we tell, so long as we all tell the same damn lie.”

David has more to say; you should read the whole thing.

By the way, Hawkins also expelled me from this network, declaring that I had become a “leftist.” I had to laugh at this line:

…conservatives pride themselves on being open minded…

He has the gall to write something like this in the very same post in which he rants that any and all criticism is off limits and cause for ostracism. Amazing.

David Frum once asked me to reconsider “leaving the right,” but this kind of vicious behavior, intended to cause actual harm to the infidels who dare to criticize, is one of the main reasons why I want nothing to do with any of these people any more.

Also see

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102 comments

1 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:13:38pm
Sarah Palin is a hick, Glenn Beck is a crank, Rush Limbaugh is bad for the country, and the Tea Party is bad for democracy,

In other words, the truth is to be avoided at all costs.

2 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:14:02pm

"David Frum once asked me to reconsider “leaving the right,”"

Think he is having second thought about that now?

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:15:42pm

I had to laugh at this line:

...conservatives pride themselves on being open minded...

4 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:16:43pm

"because conservatives pride themselves on being open minded, they’ll all too often give you a pass for your atrocious behavior"

LOLWUT?!?

5 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:16:49pm

re: #3 Charles

I had to laugh at this line:

Well...you have to admit, the tent IS a little too big right now!!

//sob

6 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:19:35pm

Why would anyone with an independent thought in their head want to be part of the right in America at this time?


BTW, yeah OT, but this will make wingnuts heads explode:
"Washington, DC—Today, Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy (NY-04) introduces the “Ending Corporal Punishment in Schools Act,” legislation that aims to eliminate the use of corporal punishment in schools."
[Link: www.arktimes.com...]

7 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:21:07pm

Speaking of conservatives, Steve Forbes found the silver lining in Byrd's passing worthy of a tweet.

8 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:21:40pm

At first glance, John Hawkins may seem as though he is well versed in self-censorship. However, upon closer scrutiny we will find someone that is well versed in conscious denial and an inability to apply critical thinking. He is not even worthy of sharing a voice with the likes of David Frum.

Hawkins is but a mere pedestrian blogger with a sophomoric mind who is known to blog at Right Wing News -- a site that has had beauty pageants for male and female right wing bloggers.

9 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:22:23pm

re: #7 darthstar

I'd like to note that Forbes favors a form of taxation that exempts all unearned income from taxation.

He is the last person to trust on financial reform.

10 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:22:59pm

re: #1 darthstar

In other words, the truth is to be avoided at all costs.

yes, the first target and the first victim

11 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:25:20pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I'd like to note that Forbes favors a form of taxation that exempts all unearned income from taxation.

He is the last person to trust on financial reform.

jiggle the numbers all around, and it may be a good idea...jiggle them some more and POOF! it's a bad idea....the feds are gonna get what they want regardless of one number or another

12 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:25:49pm

For a second I thought Vindictive was a brand name

13 KingKenrod  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:29:14pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I'd like to note that Forbes favors a form of taxation that exempts all unearned income from taxation.

He is the last person to trust on financial reform.

Such a scheme (not taxing unearned income) would quickly lead back to the boom and bust cycle that was a "feature" of capitalism prior to the Great Depression.

14 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:30:31pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I'd like to note that Forbes favors a form of taxation that exempts all unearned income from taxation.

He is the last person to trust on financial reform.

I would only think of supporting that idea if and only if it applied to people past the SS retirement age and those on permanent disability.

15 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:30:54pm

re: #11 albusteve

No, Steve, exempting all unearned income-- i.e., all rents, all sales of stock, all dividends, etc.-- from taxation and placing the tax burden solely on those who actually have jobs-- is a stupid, terrible idea no matter how you jiggle.

16 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:31:17pm

re: #13 KingKenrod

Such a scheme (not taxing unearned income) would quickly lead back to the boom and bust cycle that was a "feature" of capitalism prior to the Great Depression.

And then we can also remove railroad rate controls, tax truck companies into oblivion, and bring back the railroad tycoons...

//

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:31:31pm

re: #15 Obdicut

No, Steve, exempting all unearned income-- i.e., all rents, all sales of stock, all dividends, etc.-- from taxation and placing the tax burden solely on those who actually have jobs-- is a stupid, terrible idea no matter how you jiggle.

If we want to go back to serfdom, that's the way

18 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:31:42pm

re: #14 ArchangelMichael

I can easily agree that there are some subsections of society that this would be beneficial for. But Forbes wants it across the board.

Of course, it would personally profit him hugely.

Dick Armey is another who favors that.

19 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:32:22pm

Frum says in the link above:

It’s a health that many of us are working to restore to the conservative world: not FrumForum alone, but many others as well. I have no doubt at all that we will prevail.

Frum said seven years ago:

War is a great clarifier. It forces people to take sides. The paleoconservatives have chosen — and the rest of us must choose too. In a time of danger, they have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them.

He was writing then about:

You may know the names of these antiwar conservatives. Some are famous: Patrick Buchanan and Robert Novak. Others are not: Llewellyn Rockwell, Samuel Francis, Thomas Fleming, Scott McConnell, Justin Raimondo, Joe Sobran, Charley Reese, Jude Wanniski, Eric Margolis, and Taki Theodoracopulos.

Notice that those he names have been on the rise (except of course Novak), and "conservatives" have not turned their backs on them. Instead they are turning their backs on Frum. I think Frum is a slow learner.

20 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:34:27pm

re: #15 Obdicut

No, Steve, exempting all unearned income-- i.e., all rents, all sales of stock, all dividends, etc.-- from taxation and placing the tax burden solely on those who actually have jobs-- is a stupid, terrible idea no matter how you jiggle.

my point, and up there with Forbes, is that there are combinations of taxes and exemptions yet explored...taxation is almost entirely emotional with me, high finance and taxation is not my meat and potatoes

21 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:35:41pm

re: #19 wrenchwench

In time, the right wing will crumble under the weight of it's own stupidity, leaving behind a tattered shell of a political party. People like Frum will be there to rebuild, having not been so tarnished by association with madmen.

Left, right, and center, we need people like Frum. The left needs the right to repair itself as much as the right needs to come out of this nightmare.

22 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:39:37pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

In time, the right wing will crumble under the weight of it's own stupidity, leaving behind a tattered shell of a political party. People like Frum will be there to rebuild, having not been so tarnished by association with madmen.

Left, right, and center, we need people like Frum. The left needs the right to repair itself as much as the right needs to come out of this nightmare.

this thing is just picking up steam and the TP is here to stay for a significant time....several voting cycles at least... the Nov elections can't get here fast enough for me, we will shake it out better after that

24 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:42:26pm

Poor David Frum, in some ways he reminds me of a girlfriend who is certain that her jackass biker boyfriend really can change because "nobody understands him but me!" Not to demean actual people who have been in pathetic/abusive relationships of course. I'm just saying that at the moment Frum seems to be the guy whose bailing water out of a boat everyone else is busy drilling new holes in....

25 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:42:46pm

re: #22 albusteve

this thing is just picking up steam and the TP is here to stay for a significant time...several voting cycles at least... the Nov elections can't get here fast enough for me, we will shake it out better after that

I think it has to keep getting crazier before it gets better, sadly. Rubber balls bounce when they hit the floor, not sooner. That sort of thing.

26 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:43:40pm

re: #16 oaktree

And then we can also remove railroad rate controls, tax truck companies into oblivion, and bring back the railroad tycoons...

//

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

27 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:44:19pm

Ernest Hemingway vs. Ayn Rand:

28 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:44:41pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

In time, the right wing will crumble under the weight of it's own stupidity, leaving behind a tattered shell of a political party. People like Frum will be there to rebuild, having not been so tarnished by association with madmen.

Left, right, and center, we need people like Frum. The left needs the right to repair itself as much as the right needs to come out of this nightmare.

There was a time in the past when The GOP was considered the party of grown-ups.. With Lucid and mature world and political views and sane leadership...
That day is gone...

29 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:44:52pm

re: #26 ArchangelMichael

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

Reminds me of a line from Foxtrot

"So how quickly does this thing use up gas?"

"23 MPG"

"Wow that's pretty good for something this big!"

"That's Meters Per Gallon by the way..."

"Oh, still better than I expected."

30 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:45:59pm

Post G-20 meltdown in Toronto...They closed the Eaton Center!!11ty

31 Casual Talker  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:46:09pm

re: #5 Aceofwhat?

Well...you have to admit, the tent IS a little too big right now!!

//sob

I know your comment is snark, but as a general inquiry - what do you (or others) make of the #/% of self-identified conservatives being at levels that one has to go back nearly 20 years to approach?

It's an interesting phenomenon, given other 'current events' in the GOP.

32 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:47:03pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

In time, the right wing will crumble under the weight of it's own stupidity, leaving behind a tattered shell of a political party. People like Frum will be there to rebuild, having not been so tarnished by association with madmen.

Left, right, and center, we need people like Frum. The left needs the right to repair itself as much as the right needs to come out of this nightmare.

With the way campaign finances and influence peddling work now I suspect that the capitalization of a new party is simply not going to happen; e.g. we're not going to see something like the Whigs disintegrating to with a large fraction becoming part of the core of the Republican Party. (And there's not really an issue the equivalent to the slavery one working in the current political arena either to drive things.)

Therefore, I suspect that the current nut-scape is going to continue for at least a few more election cycles.

33 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:47:11pm

re: #26 ArchangelMichael

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

I once drove a bee truck that got 10 miles per gallon (6 highway, 4 city).

34 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:47:24pm

re: #3 Charles

I had to laugh at this line: ...conservatives pride themselves on being open minded...

So, what is a good rebuttal to that line?

35 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:48:53pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

So, what is a good rebuttal to that line?

The teabaggers aren't conservatives. They've taken over the Republican party, but they're not conservatives. They're extremists.

36 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:49:21pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

So, what is a good rebuttal to that line?

The guy who wrote that is one of the most closed-minded bloggers on the web.

37 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:50:12pm

re: #35 darthstar

The teabaggers aren't conservatives. They've taken over the Republican party, but they're not conservatives. They're extremists.

re: #36 Charles

The guy who wrote that is one of the most closed-minded bloggers on the web.

Good answers.

38 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:50:17pm

re: #35 darthstar

The teabaggers aren't conservatives. They've taken over the Republican party, but they're not conservatives. They're extremists.

The problem is, you have to convince the Tea Party contingent of this to have any real effect. Really, how far is too far for them?

39 Aye Pod  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:50:26pm

re: #1 darthstar

In other words, the truth is to be avoided at all costs.

Pretty much the wingnut motto these days.

40 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:50:35pm

re: #30 darthstar

Post G-20 meltdown in Toronto...They closed the Eaton Center!!11ty

[Video]

Good grief.

41 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:51:17pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

The problem is, you have to convince the Tea Party contingent of this to have any real effect. Really, how far is too far for them?

when they fight their way into the Capitol and raise the Stars and Bars

42 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:52:31pm

re: #36 Charles

The guy who wrote that is one of the most closed-minded bloggers on the web.

His contention that people who don't toe the line have been getting a pass is also moronic in its conception. Does he think no one notices the RINO witch-hunting that has been going on?

43 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:54:32pm

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

The problem is, you have to convince the Tea Party contingent of this to have any real effect. Really, how far is too far for them?

Nope...encourage them, I say. Help keep government hands off our Social Security! Make people work until they're 70 like Boehner says!

44 I Am Kreniigh!  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:56:20pm

re: #21 Fozzie Bear

In time, the right wing will crumble under the weight of it's own stupidity, leaving behind a tattered shell of a political party. People like Frum will be there to rebuild, having not been so tarnished by association with madmen.

Not to go all Godwin or anything, but are there any good sources on people in pre-Nazi Germany who might have been watching the growing Crazy with the same mixture of astonishment, amusement, and creeping dread?

It's nice to think that we're too smart or too modern for something like this to spin out of control as badly -- surely it will collapse under its own stupidity -- but haven't people been wrong about that in the past?

45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:56:32pm

re: #30 darthstar

I'll tell you why you fat stupid son of a bitch!

'Cause you're a smelly asshole!

46 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:57:05pm

Ayn Rand, militant atheist:

I wonder how the religious right squares that with their positive hero-worship of fictional retards like John Galt.

47 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:57:38pm

Where the rubber meets the road on this is in the media. You can't change the narrative if the narrative is embedded in the conduits we all use to get our information. With the progressive fracturing of media markets into like-minded groups, I don't see how this can be rolled back.

The internet age has made this possible. Lets hope it also ultimately can facilitate some kind of winding-back of this insanity. I don't see how it can be done unless there comes along some way to re-unite to national discourse into a single thread. In turn, I don't see how that can be done.

It's a hell of a quandary.

48 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:58:51pm

re: #44 Kreniigh

Not to go all Godwin or anything, but are there any good sources on people in pre-Nazi Germany who might have been watching the growing Crazy with the same mixture of astonishment, amusement, and creeping dread?

It's nice to think that we're too smart or too modern for something like this to spin out of control as badly -- surely it will collapse under its own stupidity -- but haven't people been wrong about that in the past?

Why... are you claiming the right wing is like the up and coming government that was lurking in Germany in the early 1930's?

49 Aye Pod  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 1:59:55pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

re: #3 Charles

I had to laugh at this line: ...conservatives pride themselves on being open minded...

So, what is a good rebuttal to that line?

Indeed they are - just look how they are embracing the ideas of Alex Jones and the John Birch Society. They're just sponges ready to absorb all kinds of interesting new ideas!

50 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:00:29pm

re: #30 darthstar

Post G-20 meltdown in Toronto...They closed the Eaton Center!!11ty


[Video]

good grief...what jolly entertainment

51 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:00:39pm

wring=writing

Don't hit post just because the phone rings.

52 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:01:07pm

re: #44 Kreniigh

Not to go all Godwin or anything, but are there any good sources on people in pre-Nazi Germany who might have been watching the growing Crazy with the same mixture of astonishment, amusement, and creeping dread?

It's nice to think that we're too smart or too modern for something like this to spin out of control as badly -- surely it will collapse under its own stupidity -- but haven't people been wrong about that in the past?



Every single time
something like the Third Reich has happened in history, the masses have largely rejected the impending crisis as unimaginable. "It couldn't happen here."

It can happen here, and it will if good people stay silent. It will take a different form this time around, it does every time. As Mark Twain said, "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme."

53 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:01:48pm

Holy crap.

I'm into season four of "Lost" already, and the "others" just started speaking Latin.

Didn't see that one coming, dude.

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:02:04pm

re: #51 wrenchwench

wring=writing

Don't hit post just because the phone rings.

The phone wrang?

55 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:02:28pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Why... are you claiming the right wing is like the up and coming government that was lurking in Germany in the early 1930's?

Remarkably so, just with different particular biases. The methods and means are what remain recognizable.

56 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Holy crap.

I'm into season four of "Lost" already, and the "others" just started speaking Latin.

Didn't see that one coming, dude.

Starting to talk like Hurley?

57 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:03:32pm

re: #55 Fozzie Bear

Remarkably so, just with different particular biases. The methods and means are what remain recognizable.

Okay dokey... boy, if you only knew the truth.

58 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:03:47pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The phone wrang?

That's it. I transliterated!

59 freetoken  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:03:56pm

re: #44 Kreniigh

I don't have any specific references on hand, but you brought up from my memory the scenes in the movie Einstein and Eddington where Einstein is increasingly uncomfortable working with Max Planck because of the latter's involvement with the increasingly influential (in matters of science) military establishment. The movie throws in some references to jews, but I am not sure how accurate they are.

60 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:05:08pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

Okay dokey... boy, if you only knew the truth.

I know what I know, Walter, and I know quite a bit about Weimar Germany. Nobody knows "the" truth.

In our favor stands the fact that the economy here is nowhere near as bad as it was there, at that time. Yet. Lets hope is never gets there.

61 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:05:34pm

re: #24 jamesfirecat

A boat that Charles was wise enough to leave. Hmmmm.... First he left the rapidly deteriorating anti-radical islam ship as it was turning into a blatantly racist anti-muslim hatefest and then he parted ways with the so called conservatives/right wing for the same reasons (turning into a racial hatefest). I think I see a pattern here.

///// Charles is a bigot! He doesn't want to be associated with bigots.

62 webevintage  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:05:36pm

re: #43 darthstar

Make people work until they're 70 like Boehner says!

Why not 80 Boehner? Think of all the money we will save.

They can raise it as high as they want since I figure my husband and I will be working until the day we die.
No retirement for us unless we win the lottery...

63 I Am Kreniigh!  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:06:41pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Why... are you claiming the right wing is like the up and coming government that was lurking in Germany in the early 1930's?

In the sense that demagoguery is being mainstreamed, and fear and ignorance are being used to anger people and get the demagogues into power.

Not in the sense that the tea partiers are literally Nazis.

64 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:07:10pm

Looking over the Twitter account of John Hawkins. They actually take this baby faced kid seriously? Example:

David Frum is a loser who makes his living saying what libs want to hear about conservatives. Can't stand him. 3:53 PM Jun 27th via web

65 Aye Pod  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:07:31pm

re: #46 Cato the Elder

Ayn Rand, militant atheist:


[Video]I wonder how the religious right squares that with their positive hero-worship of fictional retards like John Galt.

I always thought it amusing that Pammy uses a site named after one of Rand's books to promote a bigoted religious crusade and smear atheists among others. That's real cognitive dissonance.

66 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:08:17pm

re: #26 ArchangelMichael

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

Newer trucks (400-500hp) get 7-8mpg. Older trucks...less.

67 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:09:05pm

OT: Charles, if you're reading is it best to contact you via the form on the sidebar, or directly via email?

I got a very interesting and totally out-of-the-blue phone call from this afternoon and would like to give you some background on it privately before I comment on it publicly. It's nothing directly related to LGF, but it could prove useful in relation to of some of the things that are posted here.

68 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:09:05pm

Suspect:

duchess_rebecca Clearly, Interracial love. RT @MelissaTweets: RT @mdrache: A safe place for what, exactly? [Link: twitpic.com...] 10:50 AM Jun 26th via UberTwitter Retweeted by johnhawkinsrwn

69 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:09:36pm

re: #43 darthstar

Make people work until they're 70 like Boehner says!

...that's good, right?

70 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:09:37pm

...OK...Who brought up TAXES???
Obdicut?Darthstar?
Wrote a FAT check last night...&*(^%#!
I think the spelling of the word should change so it IS a four
letter word!
..........Taxx, and Taxs for the plural!
...So it shall be!!
Crap

71 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:11:14pm

re: #62 webevintage

Why not 80 Boehner? Think of all the money we will save.

They can raise it as high as they want since I figure my husband and I will be working until the day we die.
No retirement for us unless we win the lottery...

Why leave it at the same place, since we're all living much much longer?

If advances in technology raise the average age to 120, is 65 still your favorite retirement age?

72 Gus  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:11:27pm

More stupidity from John Hawkins:

Sarah Palin is more of a real feminist heroine than Gloria Steinem or the NOW harpies could ever be. 7:45 PM Jun 23rd via web

Right. If it wasn't for Gloria Steinem or NOW that putz Sarah Palin wouldn't even be the loser she grew up to be.

73 I Am Kreniigh!  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:13:15pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

Okay dokey... boy, if you only knew the truth.

Well, see, I posted that to ask for sources that would show parallels. I did find an old book years ago, written by someone who interviewed Germans who lived through that period (including some Nazis), but I can't find it now.

I don't care about specifically comparing the tea party to the Nazis... I'm just interested in how the "can't happen here" idea echoes throughout history, and how comfortable we should be thinking it.

74 jc717  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:14:08pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

Holy crap.

I'm into season four of "Lost" already, and the "others" just started speaking Latin.

Didn't see that one coming, dude.

Save yourself some time and stop now...

75 I Am Kreniigh!  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:16:26pm

re: #74 jc717

Save yourself some time and stop now...

Or keep watching, and don't waste any time trying to figure things out.

76 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:16:32pm

re: #70 reloadingisnotahobby

Taxes are what are used to support civil society.

Civil society is a good thing.

80 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:19:03pm

re: #76 Obdicut

Taxes are what are used to support civil society.

Civil society is a good thing.

truly an idealistic notion...taxes support a hell of a lot more than civility

81 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:19:24pm

re: #80 albusteve

Civil society and civility don't have anything to do with each other, Steve.

82 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:19:54pm

re: #81 Obdicut

Civil society and civility don't have anything to do with each other, Steve.

you don't get me?

83 teh flowah  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:24:21pm

Dunno why everyone ever thought this blog was "right". Because you're a supporter of Israel? That's the vast majority of Americans, left or right. Because you despise the racist, misogynist, fundamentalist, extremist, murdering, terrorists? Again, the majority of Americans left or right would be right there with you on that one. Maybe if the site was about gun control or abortion or something like that, it would be a better indicator of political affiliation, but the two issues this site concentrated on for so long were so mainstream.

LGF isn't really left or right. I wouldn't call it center though either, it's just anti-stupid. If you sit there and think your intuition can defeat science without any sort of evidence, you're an idiot! So GW and ID/Evolution got skewered here, along with anti-vaxxing. If you're a racist or religious fundamentalist, you get skewered again! A lot of those guys are on the right though, sadly. Sup teabaggers.

84 freetoken  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:26:02pm

re: #83 teh flowah

So GW and ID/Evolution got skewered here, along with anti-vaxxing.

Does not compute.

85 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:26:42pm

re: #26 ArchangelMichael

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

Your 400+ is not actually in mpg, but in miles per gallon per ton of cargo carried. Fully loaded freight trains usually average en.wikipedia.org...]>

86 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:32:21pm

re: #76 Obdicut

Taxes are what are used to support civil society.

Civil society is a good thing.


If my taxs stayed here I would concur!
10's of billion go in "aid "To countries that hate our guts!

87 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:33:34pm

re: #85 goddamnedfrank

Damn html filter!

Fully loaded freight trains actual mpg depends on how much they're carrying.

re: #66 Aceofwhat?

Newer trucks (400-500hp) get 7-8mpg. Older trucks...less.

At 40 ton cargo capacity a fully loaded 18 wheeler averages 320 miles per gallon per ton ideal, maybe half that in heavy traffic.

88 albusteve  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:33:38pm

re: #86 reloadingisnotahobby

If my taxs stayed here I would concur!
10's of billion go in "aid "To countries that hate our guts!

and that much X 10 is wasted...up in smoke with nothing to show for it...the feds are bloated with tax dollars

89 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:36:00pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

But...but ..they burn FOSSIL FUEL!!! /
Lets see a Hybrid Elec ...truck move 40 tons of perishable
goods and jump on board!

90 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:36:27pm

re: #89 reloadingisnotahobby

But...but ..they burn FOSSIL FUEL!!! /
Lets see a Hybrid Elec ...truck move 40 tons of perishable
goods and (I'll) jump on board!

oops

91 darthstar  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #70 reloadingisnotahobby

...OK...Who brought up TAXES???
Obdicut?Darthstar?
Wrote a FAT check last night...&*(^%#!
I think the spelling of the word should change so it IS a four
letter word!
...Taxx, and Taxs for the plural!
...So it shall be!!
Crap

I'm getting ready to write a fat check tomorrow...putting a bid in on a house.

92 garhighway  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:44:04pm

re: #86 reloadingisnotahobby

If my taxs stayed here I would concur!
10's of billion go in "aid "To countries that hate our guts!

What percentage is that of the total US budget?

93 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:45:10pm

re: #73 Kreniigh

Well, see, I posted that to ask for sources that would show parallels. I did find an old book years ago, written by someone who interviewed Germans who lived through that period (including some Nazis), but I can't find it now.

I don't care about specifically comparing the tea party to the Nazis... I'm just interested in how the "can't happen here" idea echoes throughout history, and how comfortable we should be thinking it.

Pretty comfortable. See: Charlie Crist in the lead in my fair state.

94 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:45:21pm

re: #26 ArchangelMichael

I think that would do a lot to help out with petroleum usage and AGW. Diesel trains get like 400+ MPG. Big trucks driving across country... I'm sure it's close to a single digit number.

Shouldn't that be ton-miles/gallon not MPG for the trains?

95 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:46:06pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

Damn html filter!

Fully loaded freight trains actual mpg depends on how much they're carrying.

re: #66 Aceofwhat?

At 40 ton cargo capacity a fully loaded 18 wheeler averages 320 miles per gallon per ton ideal, maybe half that in heavy traffic.

excellent point. getting on the same unit of measure basis is the right approach - thanks.

96 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:48:29pm

re: #45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll tell you why you fat stupid son of a bitch!

'Cause you're a smelly asshole!

He forgot to get an anniversary present for his wife, so he's scared shitless.

97 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:48:49pm

re: #86 reloadingisnotahobby

If my taxs stayed here I would concur!
10's of billion go in "aid "To countries that hate our guts!

Foreign aid is an absolutely tiny percentage of the budget. Tiny.

98 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:54:11pm
99 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 2:57:11pm

re: #98 b_sharp

I'm having trouble unpacking that one.

i know that smell. it's a poor attempt to rail against PC-ism (a fine target, but not for those who can't shoot straight) + a lack of respect for the diversity of our genetic backgrounds.

I can malign the excesses of PCorrectness without forgetting that i love other sorts of diversity as well...but Hawkins apparently can't...

100 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 3:02:39pm

re: #67 CuriousLurker

OT: Charles, if you're reading is it best to contact you via the form on the sidebar, or directly via email?

I got a very interesting and totally out-of-the-blue phone call from this afternoon and would like to give you some background on it privately before I comment on it publicly. It's nothing directly related to LGF, but it could prove useful in relation to of some of the things that are posted here.

You can use the form in the sidebar, or email me at charles -at- little green footballs -dot- com.

101 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 3:08:18pm

re: #100 Charles

Okay, thanks.

102 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 29, 2010 3:23:43pm

re: #78 MandyManners

Can you name one major foreign policy initiative of the Obama administration that is not mired in horrible failure?

The comments on that are a hoot. Do Joo-hating conspiracy kooks troll all of Frum's articles and blog posts?


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