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1 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:48:24pm

AL GORE!!!!!

Just getting that out of the way now.

2 darthstar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:12pm

re: #1 Fozzie Bear

AL GORE!!!

Just getting that out of the way now.

Goredwin's Law (a new phrase I coined in the previous thread).

3 Obdicut  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:25pm

With their intransigence and opposition to the science of AGW, and the strange isolationism growing around Afghanistan,the GOP have lost any claim to being the better party on the matter of national security.

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:26pm

In a climate change thread that's almost like posting "first!"

5 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:50:08pm

re: #4 Charles

In a climate change thread that's almost like posting "first!"

Hahaha sorry, I couldn't help myself.

6 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:50:18pm

Well, crap.

This thread just reminded me of what I forgot to buy at the grocery store today.

Charcoal.

7 alexknyc  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:51:44pm

I've always thought getting off oil and finding renewable sources of energy at home were issues of national security, not just energy policy.

8 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:57:46pm

Renewable fuel sources for our military would provide America with the most undeniable advantage on the battle field- the ability to dump their dependence on fuel supply convoys.

9 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:58:10pm

And I still contend that the renewable energy breakthrough on a mass scale with come via military engineering.

10 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:58:20pm

Any time you start talking about allocation of resources, it becomes a security concern. Feel like eating and drinking on a regular basis? Might want to look into safeguarding your food and water supply.

11 Obdicut  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:00:05pm

re: #9 TampaKnight

I actually think so too. The military is the largest group in the US designed and able to think large-scale, about group welfare and a larger mission. They're the most dis-attached from the profit motive, and the most able to defensibly do large-scale actions without people shouting "socialist" at them.

12 windsagio  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:00:24pm

re: #9 TampaKnight

There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:02:46pm

re: #9 TampaKnight

And I still contend that the renewable energy breakthrough on a mass scale with come via military engineering.

I'd like it if it came sooner rather than later :D

14 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:02:50pm

re: #12 windsagio

There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.

Never say never. The internet was the product of the military....I'd say it sparked a "revolution" of sorts.

15 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:03:42pm

re: #2 darthstar

Goredwin's Law (a new phrase I coined in the previous thread).

ahahahaha yes! We're all going to have to work hard to keep using that whenever Gore pops up in AGW threads.

ARE WE READY?!?!?!

16 windsagio  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:04:28pm

re: #14 TampaKnight

I never did say never!

I do think that while military research has led to some great things, directed research is waaay more efficient, especially when set on a focused goal.

As per my example, playing one game DOES make you better at others, just not as fast as working on the game you want ot actually improve :D

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:05:26pm

re: #14 TampaKnight

Never say never. The internet was the product of the military...I'd say it sparked a "revolution" of sorts.

I would say the infrastructure was a product of the military and the application was a product of academic institutions. Without academic institutions, it would still just be a military network. We needed both to make the intertubes great :-)

18 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:05:30pm

re: #12 windsagio

There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.

I still say my improvements would make Chess vastly more enjoyable.

19 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:06:05pm

The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.

20 windsagio  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:06:20pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're probably right, chess makes me crazy ;)

21 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:31pm

I thought the Pentagon was supposed to shut up and do what it is told, not be telling us what we might have to do...this is a disturbing development.

Now get back to securing our access to fossil fuels!

22 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:35pm

re: #19 TampaKnight

The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.

Interesting o_o

Is this a light vehicle or a heavy vehicle?

23 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:55pm

And I can't forget about the Navy's bold ambitions, which also include the first ever 50/50 biofuel F-18 Hornet.


- By 2016, the Navy will sail a "Great Green Fleet" composed of nuclear ships, surface combatants with hybrid electric power systems using biofuel and aircraft flying on only biofuels.

- By 2020, at least half of the DoN's shore-based energy requirements will come from alternative sources and half of total DoN energy consumption will come from alternative sources.

24 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:08:37pm

re: #22 WindUpBird

Interesting o_o

Is this a light vehicle or a heavy vehicle?

HEAVY!

Initial requirements were for it to be up to 70 tons, which would make it slightly lighter than an Abrams. The Army came to their senses and is now thinking 40-50 tons (and realized the massive cost of making an IFV 70 tons).

25 Obdicut  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:09:27pm

re: #17 WindUpBird

One of the best things about the armed forces is that they value science heavily. We won WWII in a large part because of our scientific efforts. We remain a superpower through science. The military knows this, and they know that we beat the pants off the Soviets in science because of how our scientific institutions were structured vs. theirs.

26 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:09:48pm

re: #24 TampaKnight

HEAVY!

Initial requirements were for it to be up to 70 tons, which would make it slightly lighter than an Abrams. The Army came to their senses and is now thinking 40-50 tons (and realized the massive cost of making an IFV 70 tons).

Keep us posted!

I'm not really a military hardware/gun geek, I'm a car geek. But this is relevant to my interests :D

27 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:10:14pm

re: #19 TampaKnight

The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.

I think Doc Venture is working on that right now.

Dr. Byron Orpheus: [after examining Dr. Venture's latest invention] What the hell is this thing made out of?
Dr. Venture: [suspiciously] Nothing.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: Come on...
Dr. Venture: All right, fine, I might have used a few unorthodox parts.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: Just tell me one.
Dr. Venture: [mumbling] An... orphan.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: A what?
Dr. Byron Orpheus: [clearing his throat] An orphan?
Dr. Venture: Did you say... an ORPHAN?
Dr. Venture: [weakly] Yeah, a little orphan boy.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: It's powered by a forsaken child?
Dr. Venture: [defensive] Might be, kind of - I mean I didn't use the whole thing!

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:10:22pm

I seem to remember that the Pentagon published a similar report years ago and it was blithely swept under the tabe and forgotten.

29 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:11:40pm

re: #28 ralphieboy

I seem to remember that the Pentagon published a similar report years ago and it was blithely swept under the tabe and forgotten.

The Pentagon is the best at putting out reports that go nowhere.

30 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:11:58pm

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

God now I just want to watch the WHOLE SERIES again!

And then do my awesome Orpheus impression and annoy everyone within 100 yards :D

31 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:13:02pm

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you ever seen the show Archer? H Jon Benjamin does the voice of the main character, sort of a spy/Bond thing, hilarious.

32 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:14:29pm

re: #19 TampaKnight

The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.

Hamsters.

33 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:15:40pm

re: #30 WindUpBird

God now I just want to watch the WHOLE SERIES again!

And then do my awesome Orpheus impression and annoy everyone within 100 yards :D

I've got Henchman 24 down pat.

34 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:15:42pm

Actually, this article is out today- the Navy is looking at a way to harness power from space and use the earth's magnetic field to power satellites, instead of relying on fuel.

"A year from now, the U.S. Navy hopes to launch a pair of small satellites that are able to harvest electrons from space and use them and Earth's magnetic field as a propulsion system."

[Link: www.defensenews.com...]

35 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:16:15pm

re: #32 ryannon

Hamsters.


rare siberian hamsters, si...

36 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:16:51pm

re: #35 ralphieboy

rare siberian hamsters, si...

Remember, they laughed at the Wright Brothers too.

37 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:17:12pm

re: #32 ryannon

Hamsters.

Only if they use this design

Image: 187866436407be7816cbmh6.jpg

38 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:17:53pm

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've got Henchman 24 down pat.

YES :D

Henchman 21: Gentlemen, choose your weapons!
Henchman 24: Is this them?
Henchman 21: “Are these they.”
Henchman 24: Who talks like that?!?

39 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:18:16pm

The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.

Unbelievable.

40 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:19:19pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Only if they use this design

Image: 187866436407be7816cbmh6.jpg

Could work. Especially if the guys inside were on a treadmill along with the hamsters.

Brainstorming: it's what makes America great!

41 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:20:54pm

re: #39 Charles

The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.

Unbelievable.

Oooo, he's talking fiat currency. Must be a Paul guy.

42 Obdicut  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:21:38pm

re: #39 Charles

Interesting; unlike most international banking conspiracies, this one doesn't seem to blame Jews. However, it is still barkingly crazy.

43 windsagio  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:22:08pm

re: #41 TampaKnight

AKA the mainstream of the GOP? ;)

44 TampaKnight  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:18pm

Today from Ron Paul's fan site, a guest writer actually ponders if success in Afghanistan would be WORSE for American than defeat.

Utter freaking bullshit.

"Too bad. It's worth a thought. Let's say that Petraeus does return to Washington in what, these days, passes for triumph. The question is: So what? Or rather, could success in Afghanistan prove worse for Americans than failure?"

[Link: www.campaignforliberty.com...]

45 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:51pm

re: #39 Charles

The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.

Unbelievable.

OMG.
That's the same guy who wrote the best awful conspiracy theory book I've ever come across, Dr. Mary's Monkey.

The 1964 murder of a nationally known cancer researcher sets the stage for this gripping exposé of medical professionals enmeshed in covert government operations over the course of three decades. Following a trail of police records, FBI files, cancer statistics, and medical journals, this revealing book presents evidence of a web of medical secret-keeping that began with the handling of evidence in the JFK assassination and continued apace, sweeping doctors into coverups of cancer outbreaks, contaminated polio vaccine, the arrival of the AIDS virus, and biological weapon research using infected monkeys.

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:54pm

re: #39 Charles


I'm sort of glad Jim Marrs types are out there, but theirs is the world of Art Bell and UFO conventions and guys who try and find scary patterns in the Bible.

It's going to be real interesting to see what online American political discourse is like in ten or fifteen years, if we're already seeing Coast to Coast guests being mainstreamed into the conversation.

47 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:25:32pm

re: #41 TampaKnight

Oooo, he's talking fiat currency. Must be a Paul guy.

Or a guy who likes masochism and Italian two-seaters

48 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:05pm

re: #38 WindUpBird

YES :D

Henchman 21: Gentlemen, choose your weapons!
Henchman 24: Is this them?
Henchman 21: “Are these they.”
Henchman 24: Who talks like that?!?

Henchman 24: Then I'll be all like "I'll spare his life, but only for you sugarpants."

Henchman 21: Dude and then you will have sex! You will be having sex! SEX!

49 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:53pm

re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Henchman 24: I can't believe that whore stole my Stanza!

50 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:54pm

re: #45 reine.de.tout

OOPS.
Jim Marrs wrote the forward to that book, the book is by Edward Haslam. I just knew the name sounded familiar.

51 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:28:50pm

For those who missed it the last time around - or thought they could escape, here's an excellent condensation of a 1'30 TedTalk given last year to the Google brass about LIFTRs - Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactors. Safe, non-polluting, twice as fast to get online as traditional nuclear powered reactors and much less expensive, there's nothing I've discovered about them that's not to like. They totally invalidate the old debate about the wisdom and/or feasibility of going for traditional nuclear power.

52 Kragar  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:29:59pm

re: #49 WindUpBird

Henchman 24: I can't believe that whore stole my Stanza!

Henchman 24: We're gonna get our asses kicked. We didn't have a breakfast.

53 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:30:42pm

re: #51 ryannon

If Google starts making nuclear reactors, that does it, they're the first of the Gibson cyberpunk companies :D Tessier-Ashpool, here we come!

54 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:31:38pm

re: #51 ryannon

Oh yeah, a condensation means it's only ten minutes long. Like the Reader's Digest, only more intelligent. You owe it to yourself to discover this technology.

55 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:33:05pm

re: #53 WindUpBird

If Google starts making nuclear reactors, that does it, they're the first of the Gibson cyberpunk companies :D Tessier-Ashpool, here we come!

Google were looking into it, if I'm not mistaken. But they've got a bit too much on their plate as it is.

56 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:34:10pm

re: #55 ryannon

Google were looking into it, if I'm not mistaken. But they've got a bit too much on their plate as it is.

Google can always get bigger O_O

57 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:35:27pm

re: #53 WindUpBird

Dibs on the Straylight Run...

58 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:40:04pm

re: #56 WindUpBird

Google can always get bigger O_O

Google will get bigger. I predict a fantastic run for them.

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:43:05pm

re: #58 ryannon

Google will get bigger. I predict a fantastic run for them.

I just want to see their Wintermute

60 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:43:14pm

In the meantime, we could phase out oil within three to four years using LIFTR generated electricity. Somebody (as in Big Oil) must be very unhappy with this idea, otherwise we'd already be building the first pilot plants.

61 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:45:37pm

re: #59 WindUpBird

I just want to see their Wintermute

You're getting all Philip K. Dicked out. Put down the books and look at the video.

62 Jack Burton  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #60 ryannon

In the meantime, we could phase out oil within three to four years using LIFTR generated electricity. Somebody (as in Big Oil) must be very unhappy with this idea, otherwise we'd already be building the first pilot plants.

Most of the petroleum we use is for transportation fuel and also in the creation of several chemicals (mostly plastics). Electric power is generated by coal, hydro, nuclear, and some natural gas. Nuclear is not directly a threat to "Big Oil" unless there is a serious push for all-electric cars. The biggest show stopper for that has been, and probably will be for the next few years anyway, battery issues.

63 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:50:14pm

I'll be back with my LIFTR rap. Gonna slap you all upside the head with it, just like LVQ with his AGW.

64 ryannon  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:53:42pm

re: #62 ArchangelMichael

Most of the petroleum we use is for transportation fuel and also in the creation of several chemicals (mostly plastics). Electric power is generated by coal, hydro, nuclear, and some natural gas. Nuclear is not directly a threat to "Big Oil" unless there is a serious push for all-electric cars. The biggest show stopper for that has been, and probably will be for the next few years anyway, battery issues.

Those issues are being resolved by leaps and bounds. The moment we've got cheap - or at least competitively-priced electricity, there will be a huge incentive to improve storage methods for transportation applications.

65 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 4:05:30pm

If you do not believe everything that the scientists are saying about AGW, believe what the admirals, generals and CIA officials will tell you about global destabilization due to climate change. They will be called on to fight wars over this in the coming decades.

Alternative power sources exist. The technologies are viable and deployable. Yet we are not deploying them on a national scale. This is not because we can not deploy them, or even because they cost too much to deploy - particularly if one takes the true costs of oil into account. The true costs include military deployments and security risks, lost livelihoods from spills, loss of arable land, loss of fisheries and massive health impacts - even without mentioning AGW.

We don't deploy cheaper technologies, that would do the job better, and grow our economy drastically - while paying for themselves because of the hold that certain industries have on America and certain pet politicians and propagandists. Break the cycle.

66 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Jul 13, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #39 Charles

The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.

Unbelievable.

And that is a dog whistle that Jews know to have concerns over. Sooner or later, the far right always comes for us as well.


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