The ‘Mega-Mosque’ Hate Video Rejected by NBC and CBS

US News • Views: 5,399

From the National Republican Trust Political Action Committee, this is the advertisement that was rejected by NBC and CBS.

Youtube Video

The fear mongering is so completely over the top in this little piece of hate propaganda, there’s not much to say about it.

So I’ll just attempt to relay some facts. Contrary to what the ad says, this is not a “mega-mosque” overlooking Ground Zero. It’s two blocks away, and it’s a pre-existing 13-story building that will be remodeled into a community center with an auditorium, swimming pool, restaurants, and … gasp … a mosque.

Here’s an embedded Google Maps view of the area, showing a couple of large buildings in between the proposed community center at 45 Park Place and Ground Zero.

The only thing it will “overlook” is the Amish Market. Don’t they realize the terrible danger they’re in? You can’t fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!


View Larger Map

Also see
LGF Pages - Scott Wheeler falls off the conspiracy-nut tree and hits every branch on the way down

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265 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:23:16pm

So ABC and CBS are in on the plot too.

///

2 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:25:05pm

I'm now extremely concerned about the Amish.

3 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:26:59pm

re: #2 Charles

I'm now extremely concerned about the Amish.

Don't worry, I emailed them about it.

/wait, what?

4 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:27:26pm

Greg Sargent over at the Plum Line has a pretty good argument that the ad was never seriously intended to get on TV...just raise enough controversy to get free air-time on the networks as a "news story"...they didn't even approach NBC with a dollar amount of what they were willing to spend. (i.e. they were hoping to get rejected)

5 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:27:57pm

re: #2 Charles

I'm now extremely concerned about the Amish.

But I ain't never punched a tourist even if he deserved it!

6 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:28:52pm

re: #4 darthstar

Greg Sargent over at the Plum Line has a pretty good argument that the ad was never seriously intended to get on TV...just raise enough controversy to get free air-time on the networks as a "news story"...they didn't even approach NBC with a dollar amount of what they were willing to spend. (i.e. they were hoping to get rejected)

And a free talking point: "Lamestream Media networks cave into Islamist Terrorists"

Granted, these people know how to get the maximum bang for their buck, so to speak.

7 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:29:30pm

re: #2 Charles

I'm now extremely concerned about the Amish.

You should be, their horse & buggies really tie up traffic. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

8 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:30:52pm

But seriously, don't the Amish realize the terrible danger they're in? You can't fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!

9 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:30:59pm

This one was sent to me by a Friend in Pa....


Youtube Video
10 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:14pm

re: #7 MrSilverDragon

You should be, their horse & buggies really tie up traffic. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

Not to mention the un-restricted flow of methane they produce.

11 Lidane  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:20pm

*sigh*

At what point does the right finally say they've had enough of crap like this? Seriously. I'd love to know.

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:35pm

re: #7 MrSilverDragon

You should be, their horse & buggies really tie up traffic. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

What if the Islamists are planning a terrirst attack involving driving a flaming haywagon into the Amish market?

13 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:38pm

I'm not surprised about how disingenuous and misleading the ad is. Not only is the mosque not in Ground Zero (it's two blocks away), but if you switch to a street view from 45/47 Park Place, you'd see just how asinine it is to claim that this would tower over the site.

The proposed building wouldn't tower over its neighbors across the street, let alone 90 Church (the Post Office building), which is 15 stories tall and is directly adjacent to Ground Zero (running along Vesey Street).

14 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:38pm

re: #8 Charles

But seriously, don't the Amish realize the terrible danger they're in? You can't fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!

You can if he's lactose intolerant.

15 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:31:55pm

This must be Pam Geller's proudest moment.

16 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:32:08pm

re: #8 Charles

But seriously, don't the Amish realize the terrible danger they're in? You can't fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!

NBC not ABC. I made that same mistake earlier. :)

17 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:32:29pm

re: #7 MrSilverDragon

You should be, their horse & buggies really tie up traffic. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

They're going to find a buggy abandoned in Times Square any day now with a few extra barrels of oats in the back and a wind-up clock work device leading to a string...

/

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:32:54pm

re: #14 darthstar

You can if he's lactose intolerant.

Yuppies can fight him off if he Lacoste intolerant...

19 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:33:32pm

re: #13 lawhawk

What happened with the Omni and wired gas cans?

20 theheat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:33:40pm

re: #17 oaktree

With ACME written on the side of the wagon.

21 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:34:07pm

re: #8 Charles

The Amish Market is a takeout joint/grocery store.

22 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:34:40pm

re: #8 Charles

Given that the Amish are complete pacifists and wholeheartedly follow the 'love they enemy' command, they actually would probably go on record saying they forgive and love Bin Laden. That'd make Geller jump out of her skin.

Also, fun fact: Amish men don't wear mustaches because they associate mustaches with the military.

23 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:34:43pm

I'd go with the Rocket & Skates plan myself!

24 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:35:51pm

re: #2 Charles

I'm now extremely concerned about the Amish.

You have every reason to be concerned.

Youtube Video
25 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:35:55pm

re: #19 reloadingisnotahobby

Only that it wasn't a bomb, but they were in the process of looking for the owner.

26 webevintage  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:36:05pm

re: #13 lawhawk

The proposed building wouldn't tower over its neighbors across the street, let alone 90 Church (the Post Office building), which is 15 stories tall and is directly adjacent to Ground Zero (running along Vesey Street).

Brian Williams did a story the other night and he made it sound like the building is right at ground zero and my husband was all "wow, why would anyone want to do that".
After yelling at him for annoying me with his annoying comment I pointed out that it was a few city blocks away.
He then said "outrageous outrage?"
Yeah.

27 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:37:54pm

re: #25 lawhawk

Ah!!
I was right!!!
Broken gas gage in POS Omni!!!!
I will not GLOAT!!!
Better safe than sorry!
..But I was....

28 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:38:31pm

I repeat from an earlier thread:

If Ground Zero is truly "sacred", we should start the rebuilding there with a mega-house of worship, to include a cathedral, a synagogue, a mosque, a Friends Meeting, a Sikh temple, a Hindu shrine, an Indian sweat lodge, a gay Episcopalian bishopric, and a Pentecostal snake-handling hall. Also, Mormons, Wiccans, and a chapter of Atheists United Against God. Make it the biggest mega-"church" mall in the United States, one-stop shopping in honor of freedom of religion and irreligion.

Let's get a-building.

29 webevintage  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:39:07pm

re: #26 webevintage

Brian Williams did a story the other night and he made it sound like the building is right at ground zero and my husband was all "wow, why would anyone want to do that".
After yelling at him for annoying me with his annoying comment I pointed out that it was a few city blocks away.
He then said "outrageous outrage?"
Yeah.

I should point out this was the story in which Geller appeared on my TV screen and pissed me off...

30 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:39:40pm
The only thing it will “overlook” is the Amish Market. Somebody warn them before it’s too late.

LMAO

31 Fart Knocker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:39:40pm

re: #8 Charles

But seriously, don't the Amish realize the terrible danger they're in? You can't fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!

A local boy kicked me in the butt last week. I just smiled at him and I turned the other cheek.

32 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:40:23pm

re: #28 Cato the Elder

I repeat from an earlier thread:

If Ground Zero is truly "sacred", we should start the rebuilding there with a mega-house of worship, to include a cathedral, a synagogue, a mosque, a Friends Meeting, a Sikh temple, a Hindu shrine, an Indian sweat lodge, a gay Episcopalian bishopric, and a Pentecostal snake-handling hall. Also, Mormons, Wiccans, and a chapter of Atheists United Against God. Make it the biggest mega-"church" mall in the United States, one-stop shopping in honor of freedom of religion and irreligion.

Let's get a-building.

You forgot a place for the Satanists to have their black mass.... also... do we have to include room for $cientologists also?

33 theheat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:40:37pm

re: #28 Cato the Elder

From what I can tell, it's been rebranded as Park51 or something, and doesn't even have a dome.

34 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:41:09pm

re: #32 jamesfirecat

You forgot a place for the Satanists to have their black mass... also... do we have to include room for $cientologists also?

Yes. Fair is fair.

35 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:41:21pm

re: #33 theheat

It never was going to have a dome according to renderings that were released. The front would have been glassed in with decorative mosaics.

36 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:41:45pm

re: #31 rwdflynavy

A local boy kicked me in the butt last week. I just smiled at him and I turned the other cheek.

Plus 1 for the Weird Al ref, that takes me back.

37 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:42:00pm
The only thing it will “overlook” is the Amish Market. Somebody warn them before it’s too late.

The Jihad on apple butter continues!

38 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:42:06pm

re: #4 darthstar

Greg Sargent over at the Plum Line has a pretty good argument that the ad was never seriously intended to get on TV...just raise enough controversy to get free air-time on the networks as a "news story"...they didn't even approach NBC with a dollar amount of what they were willing to spend. (i.e. they were hoping to get rejected)

Interestingly, Sargent says, "according to the Web site Little Green Footballs," and then links to a Pages page (by Dark_Falcon). I can see that becoming a problem at some point.

39 theheat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:42:42pm

re: #35 lawhawk

Exactly. A pretty building, with no particularly religious design elements. Like a million other buildings. Only not as tall as some.

40 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:42:48pm

re: #9 reloadingisnotahobby

This one was sent to me by a Friend in Pa...

[Video]

Oh, him. Yeah, one of Pam's buddies.

41 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:43:15pm

re: #40 CuriousLurker

Correct!

42 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:43:45pm

In real Ground Zero related rebuilding news, you've got some families pissed off that you have to search through computer databases to find the names of their loved ones, but the 9/11 terrorists who carried out the mass murder have several rooms and displays to show who they were, and what they did.

Sorry, but while I sympathize with the victims - the need to show who and what the perpetrators were and did is paramount.

43 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:44:54pm

So I am curious. The Republican National Committee and Michael Steele is comfortable with this advertisement which was produced by the National Republican Trust PAC? They approve of them using the Republican brand for this type of advertising?

44 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:44:58pm

re: #42 lawhawk

I thought they were freedom fighters??
///

45 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:46:17pm

re: #14 darthstar

You can if he's lactose intolerant.

OBL is diabetic. And the amish do make the most amazing sticky buns ever.

46 theheat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:46:40pm

re: #43 Gus 802

If Steele disapproves, it will probably be demonstrated with the same measured apathy he applies to the racists that surround him. ('Cept he denies there are racists around him.)

47 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:47:02pm

re: #9 reloadingisnotahobby

This one was sent to me by a Friend in Pa...

When you say "Friend", do you mean Quaker?

48 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:47:52pm

re: #47 Cato the Elder
Quakertown,Pa....
..Wait...how the hell did you...

49 theheat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:48:03pm

re: #45 Fozzie Bear

Haven't you ever heard "kill them with kindness"?

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:49:50pm

re: #43 Gus 802

So I am curious. The Republican National Committee and Michael Steele is comfortable with this advertisement which was produced by the National Republican Trust PAC? They approve of them using the Republican brand for this type of advertising?

I just checked their website, and they are an "Independent Organization" that at least on the surface claims no direct links to the Republican Party.

51 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:49:58pm

Weird. I was just in Quakertown this morning.

I had a sticky bun.

It was delicious.

52 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:50:00pm

re: #42 lawhawk

In real Ground Zero related rebuilding news, you've got some families pissed off that you have to search through computer databases to find the names of their loved ones, but the 9/11 terrorists who carried out the mass murder have several rooms and displays to show who they were, and what they did.

Sorry, but while I sympathize with the victims - the need to show who and what the perpetrators were and did is paramount.

Agreed.

53 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:50:30pm

The slur of Muslim "dual loyalty" is exactly equivalent to the anti-Semitic slur against Jews that they cannot be good citizens because of Israel and the Torah.

Feh.

54 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:50:48pm

re: #51 Fozzie Bear

Everything in Pa. is sticky this time of year!

55 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:51:08pm

CNN just broke in with news that BP is reporting that the oil well leak is now capped- no oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico.

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:51:20pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

The slur of Muslim "dual loyalty" is exactly equivalent to the anti-Semitic slur against Jews that they cannot be good citizens because of Israel and the Torah.

Feh.

And don't forget Papists, who owe their loyalty to Rome

57 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:52:04pm

re: #38 wrenchwench

Interestingly, Sargent says, "according to the Web site Little Green Footballs," and then links to a Pages page (by Dark_Falcon). I can see that becoming a problem at some point.

The LGF pages was a good idea from Charles. As they mature, more and more will get attention. The same thing happens at dKos. One poster there, 'fishgrease' who works in the oil industry, has done a series of diaries on booming the oil, how it has been fucked up, and has gotten Rachel Maddow's attention, and she's used his graphs on her show.

Who knows...one of these days we could see Walter being interviewed on E!

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:52:12pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

CNN just broke in with news that BP is reporting that the oil well leak is now capped- no oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico.


I was trying to to hope to loudly that it would succeed for fear of being disappointed...but if it really did, then Hoooooooooray!!!

59 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:52:22pm

re: #54 reloadingisnotahobby

Everything in Pa. is sticky this time of year!

Ugh. You aren't kidding. The air feels like warm pea soup, and about as refreshing to breathe.

60 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:52:44pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

CNN just broke in with news that BP is reporting that the oil well leak is now capped- no oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico.


Wow!
Great news!!
Beer run!!

61 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:53:02pm

re: #31 rwdflynavy

A local boy kicked me in the butt last week. I just smiled at him and I turned the other cheek.

I don't mind, I wish him well
But I'll be laughing my head off while he's burning in hell!

62 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:53:04pm

re: #56 ralphieboy

And don't forget Papists, who owe their loyalty to Rome

[Cato raises hand]

That's me, boss!

Just like JFK.

63 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:53:16pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

I just checked their website, and they are an "Independent Organization" that at least on the surface claims no direct links to the Republican Party.

An independent Republican organization. Tying xenophobia to the GOP is easier than pinning a lie on Sarah Palin.

64 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:53:41pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

I just checked their website, and they are an "Independent Organization" that at least on the surface claims no direct links to the Republican Party.

I know. Just seems that they might want to distance themselves from this advertising. I think it would be possible to oppose the Islamic center yet disapprove of this advertisement. The general public will see National Republican Trust PAC and think Republican or the RNC. Unless they approve and just don't care.

65 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:54:26pm

re: #59 Fozzie Bear
I'm in Utah so 20% or more is awful!
Was 35% Tues and I got sick to my stomach working
on a roof mounted Chiller!

66 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:54:28pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

CNN just broke in with news that BP is reporting that the oil well leak is now capped- no oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico.

Let's hope the 85 days of gushing oil didn't degrade the base of the original BOP and they can keep this thing capped until the relief well is done and the thing is sealed permanently.

67 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:55:33pm

re: #58 ralphieboy
I was SHOCKED they were dealing 8000 plus psi!!

68 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:55:54pm

re: #65 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm in Utah so 20% or more is awful!
Was 35% Tues and I got sick to my stomach working
on a roof mounted Chiller!

100% Humidity for the past 2 weeks, an unbroken procession of sticky, icky, completely breezeless hot days. I freaking hate summer in PA.

69 webevintage  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:55:55pm

re: #28 Cato the Elder

I repeat from an earlier thread:

If Ground Zero is truly "sacred", we should start the rebuilding there with a mega-house of worship, to include a cathedral, a synagogue, a mosque, a Friends Meeting, a Sikh temple, a Hindu shrine, an Indian sweat lodge, a gay Episcopalian bishopric, and a Pentecostal snake-handling hall. Also, Mormons, Wiccans, and a chapter of Atheists United Against God. Make it the biggest mega-"church" mall in the United States, one-stop shopping in honor of freedom of religion and irreligion.

Let's get a-building.

If it was truly sacred then we would building nothing there, it would be a lovely monument/park like the one in Oklahoma City.

70 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:55:57pm

re: #64 Gus 802

I know. Just seems that they might want to distance themselves from this advertising. I think it would be possible to oppose the Islamic center yet disapprove of this advertisement. The general public will see National Republican Trust PAC and think Republican or the RNC. Unless they approve and just don't care.


Proof again of how the Republican Party has let itself be hijacked by the right. They can deny it and sound inconsistent or tacitly support it and sound like raving wingnuts.

I remember an old "Onion" Headline with a picture of Obama and the caption "Black Man Given America's Worst Job".

One could run a similar one with Michael Steele's photo: "Black Man Given Worst Job in Politics"

71 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:55:58pm

re: #62 Cato the Elder

[Cato raises hand]

That's me, boss!

Just like JFK.

As a recovering Catholic (guilt-free for over 20 years now), I don't feel I owe anything to Rome...though I would go there for a pizza.

72 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:56:29pm

The brains (such as they are) of this GOPTrust gang are none other than Scott Wheeler, longtime rabid-right media droid and former staffer on the Moonie empire's Insight magazine.
Among other things, Wheeler was heavily involved in "Arkancide" conspiracy theories during the Clinton administration. He was the producer of a widely distributed conspiracy documentary that makes the Arkancide claim explicitly, The Mena Cover-Up; Drugs, Deception and the Making of A President.
Wheeler was also a major promoter of a (mostly) separate Clinton conspiracy theory, accusing the Clintons of facilitating the transfer of sensitive defense secrets to China. The latter allegation is the subject of another Wheeler documentary, Trading with the Enemy: "an investigative documentary with new revelations on dangerous U.S. weapons technology transfers to the Communist Chinese government, and links to Clinton and Democratic Party illegal fundraising."

73 darthstar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:56:37pm

re: #68 Fozzie Bear

100% Humidity for the past 2 weeks, an unbroken procession of sticky, icky, completely breezeless hot days. I freaking hate summer in PA.

Isn't 100% humidity water?

74 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:56:42pm

A little bit of further info - BP is still conducting integrity testing on the installed cap, and there will be periods where oil will flow from the caps, but video currently shows only a small trickle of oil from the well versus the 60K barrels/day that previously was gushing from the leak.

75 webevintage  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:57:18pm

re: #42 lawhawk

Sorry, but while I sympathize with the victims - the need to show who and what the perpetrators were and did is paramount.


Yep.
and with as large of a group the family members are the will always be a group that is pissed about something.

76 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:57:24pm

re: #73 darthstar

Isn't 100% humidity water?

Yes!
From your insides/out!!

77 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:57:32pm

Gah, duty calls.

BBL

78 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:58:12pm

re: #74 RadicalModerate

A little bit of further info - BP is still conducting integrity testing on the installed cap, and there will be periods where oil will flow from the caps, but video currently shows only a small trickle of oil from the well versus the 60K barrels/day that previously was gushing from the leak.

So far so good!

79 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:59:01pm

re: #73 darthstar

Isn't 100% humidity water?

LOL it feels like it!

100% just means that no more water vapor could possibly evaporate without some precipitating somewhere else. It just means the air can't hold any more water.

It also means sweating doesn't do a damn thing to cool you off.

80 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:59:25pm

re: #78 HoosierHoops

So far so good!


...Gasoline prices should plummet!!
////

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:00:30pm

re: #79 Fozzie Bear

LOL it feels like it!

100% just means that no more water vapor could possibly evaporate without some precipitating somewhere else. It just means the air can't hold any more water.

It also means sweating doesn't do a damn thing to cool you off.

Yes, which is why the crystal caves of Mexico are deadly.

[Link: mexcityviews.blogspot.com...]

82 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:00:55pm

re: #72 Shiplord Kirel

The brains (such as they are) of this GOPTrust gang are none other than Scott Wheeler, longtime rabid-right media droid and former staffer on the Moonie empire's Insight magazine.
Among other things, Wheeler was heavily involved in "Arkancide" conspiracy theories during the Clinton administration. He was the producer of a widely distributed conspiracy documentary that makes the Arkancide claim explicitly, The Mena Cover-Up; Drugs, Deception and the Making of A President.
Wheeler was also a major promoter of a (mostly) separate Clinton conspiracy theory, accusing the Clintons of facilitating the transfer of sensitive defense secrets to China. The latter allegation is the subject of another Wheeler documentary, Trading with the Enemy: "an investigative documentary with new revelations on dangerous U.S. weapons technology transfers to the Communist Chinese government, and links to Clinton and Democratic Party illegal fundraising."

It may look like a small outfit but they're number 24 Top 50 PACs
By Receipts Through December 31, 2009 (PDF)

24 - NATIONAL REPUBLICAN TRUST PAC, THE $2,584,842

83 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:01:48pm

re: #42 lawhawk

In real Ground Zero related rebuilding news, you've got some families pissed off that you have to search through computer databases to find the names of their loved ones, but the 9/11 terrorists who carried out the mass murder have several rooms and displays to show who they were, and what they did.

Sorry, but while I sympathize with the victims - the need to show who and what the perpetrators were and did is paramount.

Is it going to make it clear that they were Saudi Islamofascists?

84 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:02:25pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Yes, I had a peek into the site and discovered Scott Wheeler's article "Obama Returns to hHis Muslim Roots", which summed up quite clearly where this organization is coming from

85 soap_man  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:02:41pm

re: #70 ralphieboy

Proof again of how the Republican Party has let itself be hijacked by the right. They can deny it and sound inconsistent or tacitly support it and sound like raving wingnuts.

I remember an old "Onion" Headline with a picture of Obama and the caption "Black Man Given America's Worst Job".

One could run a similar one with Michael Steele's photo: "Black Man Given Worst Job in Politics"

Ha! I loved that article. I remember a part that went something like "It is a job that is so shitty the only other applicant was a 72-year-old senior citizen."

86 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:02:46pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

CNN just broke in with news that BP is reporting that the oil well leak is now capped- no oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico.

Best news of the month!

87 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:03:20pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Is it going to make it clear that they were Saudi Islamofascists?


Educated by Wahabite ideologues who are financed by the Saudi government, which is in turn financed by oil sales?

88 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:03:45pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Is it going to make it clear that they were Saudi Islamofascists?

Man Caused Disaster Enablers!!
Get with the PC Program!!
//

89 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:04:11pm

re: #71 darthstar

As a recovering Catholic (guilt-free for over 20 years now), I don't feel I owe anything to Rome...though I would go there for a pizza.

As a current Catholic, I'm guilt-free too. It's called "reconciliation", and it's kinda the point.

90 soap_man  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:04:32pm

OT: Just got the LGF cookbook in the mail.

Now, now, now, what shall I cook first? :)

91 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:04:45pm

re: #84 ralphieboy

Yes, I had a peek into the site and discovered Scott Wheeler's article "Obama Returns to hHis Muslim Roots", which summed up quite clearly where this organization is coming from

Another one like Mark Williams.

Here's the total receipts for 2008:

National Republican Trust PAC $11,607,527

92 Kragar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:04:52pm

re: #86 Spare O'Lake

Best news of the month!

assuming the pressure just doesn't build up and rupture more vents along the sea floor.

93 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:05:00pm

re: #87 ralphieboy

Educated by Wahabite ideologues who are financed by the Saudi government, which is in turn financed by oil sales?

( With American Dollars..from U.S.)

94 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:05:45pm

re: #69 webevintage

Here's more detail about the WTC memorial/museum. They should begin plantings of the grove of trees around the memorial in coming weeks.

And if you look at this view, the boat that was discovered at Ground Zero was located near the top of the photo (to the left of the pedestrian bridge across West Street).

95 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:05:53pm

re: #93 reloadingisnotahobby

( With American Dollars..from U.S.)

and euros and yen

96 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:05:53pm

re: #90 soap_man

Pssst...... The Lasagna.

97 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:06:25pm

re: #96 Bubblehead II

Pssst... The Lasagna.


in this weather?

98 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:06:50pm

Assuming the ocean floor doesn't heave up, fracture and explode with a 20-mile wide methane bubble eradicating all higher life on Earth.

That article, crazy or not, has been giving me nightmares.

99 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:07:42pm

re: #94 lawhawk
A BOAT??
So the Mother Fu*&^ had a Plan B??
Sorry..I had too...

100 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:21pm

o.t.

July 15 (Bloomberg) -- Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, whose endorsement of George W. Bush’s 2001 tax cuts helped persuade Congress to pass them, said lawmakers should allow the cuts to expire at the end of the year.

“They should follow the law and let them lapse,” Greenspan said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Conversations with Judy Woodruff,” citing a need for the tax revenue to reduce the federal budget deficit.

Cue wingnuts declaring Greenspan to be totally ignorant of economics.

101 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:24pm

BP says the spill is capped, no oil leaking
Hooray!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

102 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:33pm

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

assuming the pressure just doesn't build up and rupture more vents along the sea floor.

I hate when that happens!

103 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

Glass half empty much??

104 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:55pm

re: #99 reloadingisnotahobby

No, but under the boat was a hatch. And under the hatch was a computer. And it was attached to a wheel... which turned off the oil in the Deepwater wellhead. Coincidence? I think not. /////////////////

105 Kragar  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:08:57pm

re: #102 Spare O'Lake

I hate when that happens!

We're all gonna die.

106 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:09:24pm

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

Assuming the ocean floor doesn't heave up, fracture and explode with a 20-mile wide methane bubble eradicating all higher life on Earth.

That article, crazy or not, has been giving me nightmares.


There is a lot of pressure from the 5,000 feet of water over it, I would not worry too much.

107 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:09:24pm

re: #103 reloadingisnotahobby

Glass half empty much??

Haha not generally.

Somebody should link that article. I can't find it right now.

108 mikhailtheplumber  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:09:29pm

Reeeeally OT, but Argentina legalized gay marriage this morning, the first country to do so in Latin America, and the second in the Americas after Canada.
Read about it

109 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:09:31pm

re: #101 Rightwingconspirator

Now to clean up the 98-180 million gallons that did leak that the skimmers didn't contain (which is to say most of it).

110 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:09:41pm

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

Assuming the ocean floor doesn't heave up, fracture and explode with a 20-mile wide methane bubble eradicating all higher life on Earth.

That article, crazy or not, has been giving me nightmares.

Will human life be wiped out by a BP-induced methane eruption? No.

111 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:10:02pm

re: #97 ralphieboy

Good anytime of the year

112 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:10:17pm

re: #54 reloadingisnotahobby

Everything in Pa. is sticky this time of year!

Especially the wickets.

113 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:10:22pm

re: #104 lawhawk
Seriously...
They found an old boat from early harbor days?
Cool!

114 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:10:42pm

Related news...they will change the name of the mosque...

Cordoba House mosque near Ground Zero slaps new name on itself with Park51


The Cordoba House is now Park51.

Developers behind the controversial 13-story Islamic community center and prayer space near Ground Zero announced Tuesday a bland new name for the project.

Spokesman Oz Sultan said the new name puts emphasis on the community center aspect of the project rather than religion.

The name was derived from the address of the planned new building, 51 Park Place.

But the new moniker did little to quell an angry crowd of nearly 100, who turned a Landmarks Preservation Commission hearing yesterday into a turf war over the project.

Up for debate was the architectural and historical significance of the existing building, which developers hope to replace with a 13-story community center and Islamic prayer space.

115 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:10:44pm

re: #108 mikhailtheplumber

Reeeally OT, but Argentina legalized gay marriage this morning, the first country to do so in Latin America, and the second in the Americas after Canada.
Read about it


So now we are bracketed by sodomite nations. Which makes you wonder just where God is going to aim the meteorite he sends to wipe them out...

116 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:11:38pm

re: #100 engineer dog

Let the tax cuts expire? Well, that would help make the Bush tax cuts neutral on the CBO scoring. It would also impose one of the steeper tax hikes on all taxpayers based on the reversion to the pre-Bush cut rates.

Oh, and George Steinbrenner picked a good year to die - his estate isn't going to get hit with the estate tax, unless Congress retroactively imposes it.

117 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:11:39pm

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We're all gonna die.

Eventually Krager,eventually!!

118 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:11:53pm

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Related news...they will change the name of the mosque...

Cordoba House mosque near Ground Zero slaps new name on itself with Park51

Sneaky bastards...

119 webevintage  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:11:58pm

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Related news...they will change the name of the mosque...

Cordoba House mosque near Ground Zero slaps new name on itself with Park51

Is it even a mosque?
I thought it is to be a community center with a prayer room....

120 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:13:01pm

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Eh, now the proposal sounds like any condo project ongoing in the City. It still wont change the minds of opponents who will simply claim that this is an attempt to mislead the public about the group's real intentions. Just you wait.

121 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:13:27pm

re: #109 lawhawk

Now to clean up the 98-180 million gallons that did leak that the skimmers didn't contain (which is to say most of it).

Hey Lawhawk.. It appears so far it is holding back the Spill..
My fingers are crossed

122 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:13:33pm

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Related news...they will change the name of the mosque...

Cordoba House mosque near Ground Zero slaps new name on itself with Park51

51? Where have I heard that number before? OMG IT'S AN ALIEN US GOVT CONSPIRACY!!111!!!!11!

123 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:13:36pm

re: #94 lawhawk

Here's more detail about the WTC memorial/museum. They should begin plantings of the grove of trees around the memorial in coming weeks.

And if you look at this view, the boat that was discovered at Ground Zero was located near the top of the photo (to the left of the pedestrian bridge across West Street).

Am I missing something, or is there indeed nothing in the mission statement about identifying the perps and their Islamofascist supporters?

124 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:13:59pm

re: #119 webevintage

It will be both - a mosque and a community center. The group behind it needs the prayer space, and they also wanted to build a community center with all kinds of public space - theater, gym, etc.

125 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:14:16pm

re: #122 publicityStunted
Was there any doubt??

126 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:14:22pm

re: #122 publicityStunted

51? Where have I heard that number before? OMG IT'S AN ALIEN US GOVT CONSPIRACY!!111!!!11!

Area 51!!11ty

Oh boy here it comes!

127 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:16:01pm

re: #109 lawhawk

Sadly what we will see is how nature deals with it. I'm not confident we will literally recapture more than a tiny bit, especially after the dispersant and with weather coming.

128 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:16:42pm

re: #127 Rightwingconspirator

Sadly what we will see is how nature deals with it. I'm not confident we will literally recapture more than a tiny bit, especially after the dispersant and with weather coming.

Where the Heck is Dragon_Lady bro?

129 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:17:02pm

For a Misogynistic Culture....
Why do the Mosques have big boobs on top?
//

130 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:18:03pm

New York has long needed its own Area 51.

A place for displaced small grays to congregate.

131 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:19:12pm

And now de Chr-r-r-rysler-r-r-r Park 51 with fine
Cor-r-r-r-inthian leather-r-r-r seats

132 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:19:27pm

re: #90 soap_man

OT: Just got the LGF cookbook in the mail.

Now, now, now, what shall I cook first? :)

I made the Key Lime Pie earlier this week and labeled it "Eagles #5 Key Lime Pie" here at work... ;)

133 Political Atheist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:19:48pm

re: #128 HoosierHoops

She is looking for work, and helping family out these days. We had a rough week or two, longish story. Probably moving in the next couple months. Like millions, her unemployment ran out (gotta remember thank the GOP properly heh)

134 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:19:56pm

re: #132 oaktree

I made the Key Lime Pie earlier this week and labeled it "Eagles #5 Key Lime Pie" here at work... ;)


How about "Pie 51"?

135 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:24:53pm

re: #115 ralphieboy

So now we are bracketed by sodomite nations. Which makes you wonder just where God is going to aim the meteorite he sends to wipe them out...

She could always take aim at the 700 Klub campus.

136 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:27:15pm

re: #134 ralphieboy

How about "Pie 51"?

That would work since it has a circumference that is only three times the diameter.

137 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:28:12pm

I would just like to say that despite all the religionist insanity over a (gasp!) mosque on "holy ground", I would still very much like to know where the cash money for the building purchase came from.

We're talking millions of dollars ($6.5 million, give or take, if memory serves), and given the locale of the project, that sounds like a cut-rate price to me.

Is it awfully un-PC of me to wonder where the funds came from?

138 ryannon  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:30:09pm

re: #129 reloadingisnotahobby

For a Misogynistic Culture...
Why do the Mosques have big boobs on top?
//

The Islamic calendar is lunar, or feminine.

The Christian calendar is solar (Gregorian), or masculine.

Church steeples (phallic) and the domes of Mosques (the female breast).

Neat, no?

139 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:30:15pm

re: #137 Cato the Elder

I would just like to say that despite all the religionist insanity over a (gasp!) mosque on "holy ground", I would still very much like to know where the cash money for the building purchase came from.

We're talking millions of dollars ($6.5 million, give or take, if memory serves), and given the locale of the project, that sounds like a cut-rate price to me.

Is it awfully un-PC of me to wonder where the funds came from?

Very good question. I was wondering the same thing.

140 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:31:00pm

re: #73 darthstar

Isn't 100% humidity water?

It's all relative

141 Nimed  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:31:20pm

re: #122 publicityStunted

51? Where have I heard that number before? OMG IT'S AN ALIEN US GOVT CONSPIRACY!!111!!!11!

To add to the paranoia, strange events are taking place here in New York! Lo and behold:

18th-Century Ship Found at Trade Center Site

In the middle of tomorrow, a great ribbed ghost has emerged from a distant yesterday.

On Tuesday morning, workers excavating the site of the underground vehicle security center for the future World Trade Center hit a row of sturdy, upright wood timbers, regularly spaced, sticking out of a briny gray muck flecked with oyster shells.
(...)
“They were so perfectly contoured that they were clearly part of a ship,” said A. Michael Pappalardo, an archaeologist with the firm AKRF, which is working for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to document historical material uncovered during construction.

By Wednesday, the outlines made it plain: a 30-foot length of a wood-hulled vessel had been discovered about 20 to 30 feet below street level on the World Trade Center site

142 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:32:15pm

Christian Evangelical Center Plans to Compete with Ground Zero Mosque

A Christian Evangelical Center will begin holding weekly services in Battery Park City this fall.

Looks like hate group to me: 9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero

143 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:34:47pm

re: #142 Gus 802

Christian Evangelical Center Plans to Compete with Ground Zero Mosque

Looks like hate group to me: 9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero

It definitely is. From that page:

Still think Islam is a "religion of peace?" This is how this false religion has operated for the 1400 years since Mohammed was visited by satan in his sleep, violence, hatred, and death!

144 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:35:13pm

re: #129 reloadingisnotahobby

For a Misogynistic Culture...
Why do the Mosques have big boobs on top?
//

To match the boobs in Washington?

145 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:37:17pm

re: #141 Nimed

NOAH!

He going to have some incredible parking charge to pay.

146 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:38:04pm

Pamela Geller at the CB1 meeting.

Found here at Wired NY. It's an interesting thread.

147 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:40:00pm

Moo!

Image: geller01.jpg

148 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:41:17pm

re: #137 Cato the Elder

The Imam let it slip in a London Arab newspaper interview that money for the project will be raised from foreign Muslim countries, contrary to what he had given folks in America to understand.
It is politically incorrect to pursue this line of inquiry, since we all know that taqiyya is perfectly permissible.

149 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:44:01pm

re: #137 Cato the Elder

Thank you for the upding, Curious Lurker. I appreciate the fact that you can see reason for concern about this.

150 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:47:43pm

re: #148 Spare O'Lake

The Imam let it slip in a London Arab newspaper interview that money for the project will be raised from foreign Muslim countries, contrary to what he had given folks in America to understand.
It is politically incorrect to pursue this line of inquiry, since we all know that taqiyya is perfectly permissible.

He "let it slip"? Please provide a link where he said there would be zero financing form outside the U.S.

And while you're at it—because I've had quite enough of hearing this shit—please describe precisely what taqiyya is and under exactly which circumstances it is permitted.

151 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:48:54pm

re: #137 Cato the Elder

I would just like to say that despite all the religionist insanity over a (gasp!) mosque on "holy ground", I would still very much like to know where the cash money for the building purchase came from.

We're talking millions of dollars ($6.5 million, give or take, if memory serves), and given the locale of the project, that sounds like a cut-rate price to me.

Is it awfully un-PC of me to wonder where the funds came from?

No, it is not politically incorrect. At least not in my book.

152 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:49:18pm

Well looky what I found. I just went to the website of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, a disgusting anti-Israel group that helped fund the Gaza flotilla. Who's did I find listed on their website? Feisal Abdul Rauf...what a coincidence!

153 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:50:21pm

re: #149 Cato the Elder

Thank you for the upding, Curious Lurker. I appreciate the fact that you can see reason for concern about this.

Believe me, if you want it to be clean money, then you can imagine how important it is to me that the financing not have any taint associated with it.

154 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:51:37pm

re: #152 NJDhockeyfan

Well looky what I found. I just went to the website of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, a disgusting anti-Israel group that helped fund the Gaza flotilla. Who's did I find listed on their website? Feisal Abdul Rauf...what a coincidence!

And?

155 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:51:52pm

re: #152 NJDhockeyfan

Well looky what I found. I just went to the website of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, a disgusting anti-Israel group that helped fund the Gaza flotilla. Who's did I find listed on their website? Feisal Abdul Rauf...what a coincidence!

OK You win.

/

156 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:53:03pm

re: #148 Spare O'Lake

What a stupid distortion.

He said that it'd be financed by US and foreign Muslims. Among other groups, of course-- like the Rockefeller Trust, I believe.

Again: It's really funny to me that it's scandalous that Muslims would fund a Muslim center.

157 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:53:29pm

re: #152 NJDhockeyfan

Well looky what I found. I just went to the website of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, a disgusting anti-Israel group that helped fund the Gaza flotilla. Who's did I find listed on their website? Feisal Abdul Rauf...what a coincidence!

Did you find proff that he contributed money to the Gaza flotilla?

158 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:56:57pm

You know, I come here every morning and every morning I read the smears and jeers aimed Islam and Muslims and I just ignore it. Well screw that. From now on the gloves are officially OFF.

159 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:58:53pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

You know, I come here every morning and every morning I read the smears and jeers aimed Islam and Muslims and I just ignore it. Well screw that. From now on the gloves are officially OFF.

I, for one, am quite interested in your "take" on things.

160 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:59:10pm

re: #156 Obdicut

What a stupid distortion.

He said that it'd be financed by US and foreign Muslims. Among other groups, of course-- like the Rockefeller Trust, I believe.

Again: It's really funny to me that it's scandalous that Muslims would fund a Muslim center.

The distortion was the Imam's and the stupidity is yours, tool.

161 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:59:31pm

re: #154 CuriousLurker

And?

It's BOOGA BOOGA time!

... I'm filling in for Stanley.

162 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1:59:32pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

Well, do know that a lot of us appreciate the cool that you keep. I don't mind at all you sticking up for yourself, just don't let yourself be baited.

163 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:00:00pm

Thanks, reine, I truly appreciate that. And I know you're sincere.

164 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:00:17pm

re: #160 Spare O'Lake

The distortion was the Imam's and the stupidity is yours, tool.

What distortion was that, Spare, that the imam made?

And why can't you refrain from personal insults?

165 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:01:07pm


Faith-based, Humanitarian and Human Rights Organizations Unite to Respond to Massive Crisis in Darfur, Sudan

UNITY STATEMENT AND CALL TO ACTION

The emergency in Sudan's western region of Darfur presents the starkest challenge to the world since the Rwanda genocide in 1994. A government-backed Arab militia known as Janjaweed has been engaging in campaigns to displace and wipe out communities of African tribal farmers.

...

This statement is hereby signed and endorsed by the leaders of faith-based, humanitarian and human rights organizations joining together as the Save Darfur Coalition.

...

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf
ASMA Society: American Sufi Muslim Association

Reverend David Beckmann
Bread for the World

Reverend Alan Senauke
Buddhist Peace Fellowship

Arsalan Iftikhar
CAIR: Council on American-Islamic Relations

Norman L. Epstein M.D.
CASTS: Canadians Against Slavery and Torture in Sudan

Rabbi Paul J. Menitoff
Central Conference of American Rabbis

...

'

Make note of where this link located.

166 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:01:39pm

re: #162 Obdicut

Well, do know that a lot of us appreciate the cool that you keep. I don't mind at all you sticking up for yourself, just don't let yourself be baited.

Oh, I have no intention of being baited into any lame little traps, but I am more than ready to start calling out people on their ignorance.

167 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:02:20pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

You know, I come here every morning and every morning I read the smears and jeers aimed Islam and Muslims and I just ignore it. Well screw that. From now on the gloves are officially OFF.

So you'll be calling Mandy out?

Good.

168 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:03:31pm

re: #167 Cato the Elder

So you'll be calling Mandy out?

Good.

When she deserves it, yes.

169 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:04:39pm

re: #156 Obdicut

What a stupid distortion.

He said that it'd be financed by US and foreign Muslims. Among other groups, of course-- like the Rockefeller Trust, I believe.

Again: It's really funny to me that it's scandalous that Muslims would fund a Muslim center.

Yes, but doesn't it ring any alarm bells when someone pays cash money in the millions for a building in New York?

I mean, does that pass the smell test?

170 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:14:41pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

Yes, but doesn't it ring any alarm bells when someone pays cash money in the millions for a building in New York?

I mean, does that pass the smell test?

Depends on how wealthy the buyer is, I guess. Imam Rauf was written up in Forbes, so I'm guessing he's has a fair bit of pocket change of his own.

171 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:18:56pm

re: #164 Obdicut

Funding from foreign theocracies would be just dandy for you, right?

172 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

Sure. I know lots of bigwigs in real estate who use cash for transactions, because it can have a lot of benefits.

I know a three million dollar winery that was bought in cash.

Also 'cash' doesn't always mean bundles of hundred dollar bills. It's still a cash transaction if it's a bank transfer, I believe.

173 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:20:24pm

re: #171 Spare O'Lake

Funding from foreign theocracies would be just dandy for you, right?

Why would you say that, Spare? Make sure to back it up with anything I've actually said.

174 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:20:25pm

re: #170 CuriousLurker

Depends on how wealthy the buyer is, I guess. Imam Rauf was written up in Forbes, so I'm guessing he's has a fair bit of pocket change of his own.

His chief of staff also spoke at:

Advocate of Interfaith Understanding Discusses Muslims in America
Ask America webchat transcript, February 14

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs

Courtney Erwin: Hello everyone. My name is Courtney Erwin and I work as Director of Programs and Chief of Staff to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf at the Cordoba Initiative in New York. However, I am currently in Rabat, Morocco, working with a Shariah scholar, on one of our projects, and I am typing on an Arabic-French keyboard, so please forgive my slower response. I am delighted to have this opportunity to dialogue with you all. It is both an honor and pleasure, even with my technical challenges over here.

That would be 2008 and Bush's State Department.

175 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:21:20pm

re: #170 CuriousLurker

Depends on how wealthy the buyer is, I guess. Imam Rauf was written up in Forbes, so I'm guessing he's has a fair bit of pocket change of his own.

Is he an extremely wealthy man?

176 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:23:55pm

re: #175 Spare O'Lake

Is he an extremely wealthy man?

I don't know, but I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to find out. He seems to be able to support expensive tastes and world travel.

177 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:25:29pm

Also at America dot gov in 2006 Rauf is mentioned.

Young Muslims Work To Improve Muslim-Western Understanding
July forum in Copenhagen to gather Muslim youth leaders from 14 countries

Discussing the forum at a press conference June 15, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, founder of the Cordoba Initiative, said that Muslim youth "are deeply frustrated by what's going on in the name of Islam."

"They feel they are paying a price for actions done by a very, very negligible minority, but which capture the attention of the media," Rauf said. "Terrorism done in the name of Islam has hurt Muslims as much, if not more, than it has hurt Westerners."

But West-Islamic relations "can be rapidly improved" and it is the youth who will make the difference in bridging the divide, he said.

The in State:

03/25/2003
Journalists From Northern Iraq Examine American Community Television
State sponsors international visitors to observe television programming

From January 18 to February 15 five Kurdish journalists from northern Iraq traveled the United States to learn about American TV techniques, technologies, and practices through a program called "Community-Based Television Broadcasting." Sponsored by the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, the visitors are senior staff members at television stations based in northern Iraq, where Kurds have been able to establish a semi-autonomous region in the no-fly zone protected by American and British air patrols. Among the freedoms the Kurdish population has procured is access to a satellite that makes it possible for them to run several television news channels within the region.

...

At the Islamic Center the journalists discussed freedom of worship in the U.S. with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. They also asked some members of the congregation about the difficulties they have encountered as Muslims after September 11, 2001. The congregants assured the participants of the commitment of the United States government and society to freedom of worship. They said that they have faced no problems in practicing their religion before or after September 11.

Make not of the years. Apparently he was well received by State.

178 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:25:55pm

re: #177 Gus 802

Also at America dot gov in 2006 Rauf is mentioned.

Young Muslims Work To Improve Muslim-Western Understanding
July forum in Copenhagen to gather Muslim youth leaders from 14 countries

Make not note of the years. Apparently he was well received by State.

Make NOTE of the years.

179 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:27:01pm

re: #177 Gus 802

Dayum, you've got some serious Google Fu, Gus.;o)

180 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:28:02pm

re: #179 CuriousLurker

Dayum, you've got some serious Google Fu, Gus.;o)

Thanks! I sometimes try to counter news from the New York Post or Pam Geller and company with official information.

181 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:30:57pm

re: #157 CuriousLurker

Did you find proff that he contributed money to the Gaza flotilla?

Imam unmosqued

The Perdana Global Peace Organization which he is a key member of did.

The imam behind a proposed mosque near Ground Zero is a prominent member of a group that helped sponsor the pro-Palestinian activists who clashed violently with Israeli commandos at sea this week.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is a key figure in Malaysian-based Perdana Global Peace Organization, according to its Website.

Perdana is the single biggest donor ($366,000) so far to the Free Gaza Movement, a key organizer of the six-ship flotilla that tried to break Israel's blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip Monday.

Nine passengers aboard the largest ship died in clashes with Israeli commandos, and a new confrontation loomed today, when another Free Gaza Movement ship was due to reach Gaza waters in defiance of Israel.

Efforts to reach Imam Abdul Rauf yesterday for comment were unsuccessful.

If anyone goes to the Perdana Global Peace Organization website, be careful. I had to reboot twice from shit trying to get into my computer.

182 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:32:07pm

Rolls eyes.

183 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:32:20pm

re: #171 Spare O'Lake

Funding from foreign theocracies would be just dandy for you, right?

You mean like the Vatican?

184 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:36:01pm

re: #173 Obdicut

Why would you say that, Spare? Make sure to back it up with anything I've actually said.

What exactly did you mean when you seemed to feign surprise that one might be concerned by funding from donations from Arab and Islamic countries?

185 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:37:58pm

re: #184 Spare O'Lake

What exactly did you mean when you seemed to feign surprise that one might be concerned by funding from donations from Arab and Islamic countries?

The assumption that money from predominantly Islamic regions is inherently suspect is, frankly, repugnant.

186 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:38:49pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

When she deserves it, yes.

So, I guess it's finito with the sleeping late. I'll be tuning in every morning for the Early AM Mandy Show, with new guest hostess, Curious Lurker, to watch the sparks fly. It'll guaranteed be better than "The View".

Seriously.

She's been deleted and timed-out so much lately, I'm surprised she doesn't get a clue. Looking forward to looking on as the gloves come off.

187 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:39:23pm

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

If anyone goes to the Perdana Global Peace Organization website, be careful. I had to reboot twice from shit trying to get into my computer.

He's a scary, scary man.


He teaches Islam and Sufism at the Center for Religious Inquiry at St. Bartholomew's Church in New York City, and at the New York Seminary. He has been particularly effective with non-Muslims who seek to discover and assimilate the spiritual dimension of the Qur'an and Islam's ritual teachings, and who seek to understand the Islamic experience from within.

BTW, I was just there and nothing tried to crawl onto my computer other than my wife's cat.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:40:10pm

re: #8 Charles

But seriously, don't the Amish realize the terrible danger they're in? You can't fight off Osama bin Laden with a butter churn!

Maybe he's lactose-intolerant.

189 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Sure. I know lots of bigwigs in real estate who use cash for transactions, because it can have a lot of benefits.

I know a three million dollar winery that was bought in cash.

Also 'cash' doesn't always mean bundles of hundred dollar bills. It's still a cash transaction if it's a bank transfer, I believe.

Really? Cash is not cash? Must tell Johnny's ghost.

A bank transfer can be traced and questioned. I'm thinking this was done with a fucking suitcase.

And pardon me if that raises one of my eyebrows.

190 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:41:08pm

re: #184 Spare O'Lake

What exactly did you mean when you seemed to feign surprise that one might be concerned by funding from donations from Arab and Islamic countries?

I didn't feign anything, Spare. I'm not much of a feigner. I do find it hilarious that people are treating donations from foreign Muslims as though they all come from Hamas.

Yes, there might be donations from the Saudi Arabian leaders-- who, you'll recall, are the US's allies. Or maybe there will be donations from the King of Jordan-- an investor in many US companies. Or maybe money will come from lots of individual Muslims abroad.

Why shouldn't it? What problem is there in allowed foreign Muslims to support a non-profit community center? We allow them to invest in our companies, to buy land in the US, to do any number of things.

If your concern is about funding from specific foreign Muslim groups, that's fine. But foreign Muslims != eebul terrorist groups.

191 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:41:47pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Really? Cash is not cash? Must tell Johnny's ghost.

A bank transfer can be traced and questioned. I'm thinking this was done with a fucking suitcase.

And pardon me if that raises one of my eyebrows.

Who said it was a cash purchase?

192 b_sharp  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:42:00pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Really? Cash is not cash? Must tell Johnny's ghost.

A bank transfer can be traced and questioned. I'm thinking this was done with a fucking suitcase.

And pardon me if that raises one of my eyebrows.

I take it your eyebrows are extra sensitive to fucking suitcases.

193 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:42:38pm

re: #182 Gus 802

Rolls eyes.

Careful, they might get stuck.

194 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:42:53pm

What are we going to conduct an investigation of Feisal Abdul Rauf here? And with links to article in the New York Post?

195 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:44:00pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Really? Cash is not cash? Must tell Johnny's ghost.

A bank transfer can be traced and questioned. I'm thinking this was done with a fucking suitcase.

And pardon me if that raises one of my eyebrows.

No, cash is not always cash, Cato. I'm not sure why this is surprising. Almost any financial instrument under $10,000 apiece counts as cash-- by IRS rules.

Why do you think it was done with a suitcase?

Where is the story on it being paid for in cash, anyway?

196 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:44:45pm

re: #191 Gus 802

Who said it was a cash purchase?

All the reports I've read.

And may I remind everyone that today's "peace imam" can become tomorrow's wanted terrorist. Not saying it must be so, but that mofo Awlaki who is now calling for the death of the woman who started the "Everybody Draw Muhammad" campaign was the media's pet Islamic spokesman - until he went to Yemen and earned himself a justified death warrant.

197 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:45:12pm

re: #196 Cato the Elder

Can you link to one of these reports you've heard, please, Cato?

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:45:18pm

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Related news...they will change the name of the mosque...

Cordoba House mosque near Ground Zero slaps new name on itself with Park51

That's a terrible name change. Park51 sounds like a pretentious restaurant.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:46:20pm

re: #129 reloadingisnotahobby

For a Misogynistic Culture...
Why do the Mosques have big boobs on top?
//

Because boobs are beautiful.

200 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:46:28pm

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

If anyone goes to the Perdana Global Peace Organization website, be careful. I had to reboot twice from shit trying to get into my computer.

I'm familiar with that article form the NY Post and have been to the Perdana web site to check out the Imam's association with the group. I'm not sure what him being a memember makes him guilty of—there's nothing in there about him funding the Gaza flotilla, nor is Perdana designated as a terrorist organization AFAIK.

Do we even know that Perdana was aware of the stunt that was going to be pulled during the Gaza flotilla? Or do we simply refuse give them the benefit of the doubt since they're a Muslim organization sympathetic to Palestinians?

Let me ask you something: When looking for info on things related to Islam/Muslims, do you keep an open mind, or do you go in with an eye towards finding something sinister? That's a sincere question, not snark and I'm not judging you, I'm just asking.

Also, please see Gus' #165 with the link from the ADL.

201 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:46:35pm

re: #197 Obdicut

Can you link to one of these reports you've heard, please, Cato?

What am I, Google?

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:47:06pm

re: #138 ryannon

The Islamic calendar is lunar, or feminine.

The Christian calendar is solar (Gregorian), or masculine.

Church steeples (phallic) and the domes of Mosques (the female breast).

Neat, no?

Except that in the East, Christians also build with domes...

203 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:49:35pm

re: #185 Fozzie Bear

The assumption that money from predominantly Islamic regions is inherently suspect is, frankly, repugnant.

"Inherently suspect" is your phrase, not mine. I just thought it should be looked at more closely.
If the Imam had not originally stated that the funding would be from New York Muslims, I would not have been so intrigued by his later inconsistent statement.

204 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:50:02pm

re: #201 Cato the Elder

What am I, Google?

You're someone making a claim that needs proof. You currently don't have any.

Even if it was 'cash', the 'cash' could be a couple hundred cashier's checks. Or, as I said, it could be a cash transfer. It's kind of pointless to speculate unless you actually have a source making a claim that can be examined.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:50:29pm

re: #171 Spare O'Lake

Funding from foreign theocracies would be just dandy for you, right?

How worried are you about AOL and Fox News taking Saudi money?

206 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:50:37pm

re: #203 Spare O'Lake

Show the discrepancy, please.

207 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:51:07pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Or Halliburton moving their HQ to Dubai, for that matter.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

If anyone goes to the Perdana Global Peace Organization website, be careful. I had to reboot twice from shit trying to get into my computer.

I've been to the website. His name is mentioned, but there's no indication that he's more than an influential religious figure who signed on to their admittedly goopy and vague agenda.

He may be involved, he may not. I can't find any reference to his actual activities with them or on behalf of them.

209 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:53:44pm

re: #186 Cato the Elder

So, I guess it's finito with the sleeping late. I'll be tuning in every morning for the Early AM Mandy Show, with new guest hostess, Curious Lurker, to watch the sparks fly. It'll guaranteed be better than "The View".

Seriously.

She's been deleted and timed-out so much lately, I'm surprised she doesn't get a clue. Looking forward to looking on as the gloves come off.

Heh. Just to be clear, I don't hate Mandy or NJDH or Spare or anyone else here. That being said, I do find the constant snarky hammering on Islam & Muslims both annoying and hurtful. Now they may not give a hairy rat's ass if my spayshul snowflake Muslim feelings are hurt, and that's fine as I don't need them to care.

But sometimes the stuff that gets tossed around is just flat out incorrect. That makes me mad because these are smart people who should be checking their facts. And that's what I fully intend to do battle with—the ignorance.

210 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:54:28pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Such funding needs to be looked at closely to ensure that it comes from legitimate sources. As far as the Saudis are concerned, you can kiss their terrorist-supporting wahabbist asses all you want...but for me, I'll assume the worst about those corrupt fuckers.

211 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:55:25pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

How worried are you about AOL and Fox News taking Saudi money?

Shouldn't anyone be very worried?

212 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:56:07pm

re: #187 b_sharp

BTW, I was just there and nothing tried to crawl onto my computer other than my wife's cat.

Mine either. *shrug*

213 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:56:41pm

re: #204 Obdicut

You're someone making a claim that needs proof. You currently don't have any.

Even if it was 'cash', the 'cash' could be a couple hundred cashier's checks. Or, as I said, it could be a cash transfer. It's kind of pointless to speculate unless you actually have a source making a claim that can be examined.

OK, smartass.

New York Times.

Kukiko Mitani, whose husband, Stephen Pomerantz, owned the building at the time, tried to sell it for years, at one time asking $18 million. But when the recession hit, she sold it in July to a real estate investment firm, Soho Properties, for $4.85 million in cash, records show. One of the investors was the Cordoba Initiative, an interfaith group founded by Imam Feisal.

Cash. As in, the money might be from Saudi, it might be from local Muslims, or it might be from the Pakistani Taliban.

Smell test.

214 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:57:02pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

I've been to the website. His name is mentioned, but there's no indication that he's more than an influential religious figure who signed on to their admittedly goopy and vague agenda.

He may be involved, he may not. I can't find any reference to his actual activities with them or on behalf of them.

So you'll just close your eyes and give him a free pass? God, I hope not!

215 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:57:02pm

re: #196 Cato the Elder

All the reports I've read.

And may I remind everyone that today's "peace imam" can become tomorrow's wanted terrorist. Not saying it must be so, but that mofo Awlaki who is now calling for the death of the woman who started the "Everybody Draw Muhammad" campaign was the media's pet Islamic spokesman - until he went to Yemen and earned himself a justified death warrant.

Well, we can't prevent known unknowns from occurring. With so many people opposed to this Muslim center if there was something there we would know about it by now. Allegations and hearsay do not count to that end. Merely because it was a cash transaction means nothing unless it is backed by facts of corruption supported by law enforcement. This is why we have the CIA, SS, FBI and the NYPD.

Additionally, being associated with the Perdana Global Peace probably doesn't amount to much and his presence there could mean a number of things. He is listed as being either a "role player" or "contributor." While Perdana Global Peace did contribute to to the Gaza Flotilla they are not considered a terrorist organization. Many Americans were also involved in that event and they were not arrested or charged with any crimes when they returned to the United States.

I probably added too much information here.

216 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:57:24pm

re: #210 Spare O'Lake

As far as the Saudis are concerned, you can kiss their terrorist-supporting wahabbist asses all you want.

I don't, and your accusations, as usual, are fatuous and stupid. I made the point that Saudi Arabia are our allies. I wish they weren't. But they are. Because of oil.

Why do you act like this? Do you really think anyone is impressed when you casually throw around accusations like that?

217 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:58:46pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

Cash. As in, the money might be from Saudi, it might be from local Muslims, or it might be from the Pakistani Taliban.

Smell test.

Cash: As in, not credit. In terms of real estate sales, that doesn't actually mean physical cash, no.

Cash does not have one unified meaning. Cash vs. credit is another distinction, and in the context of real estate, it'd be the most common one to assume here; no mortgage, no loan, just cash.

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 2:58:49pm

re: #209 CuriousLurker

Heh. Just to be clear, I don't hate Mandy or NJDH or Spare or anyone else here. That being said, I do find the constant snarky hammering on Islam & Muslims both annoying and hurtful. Now they may not give a hairy rat's ass if my spayshul snowflake Muslim feelings are hurt, and that's fine as I don't need them to care.

But sometimes the stuff that gets tossed around is just flat out incorrect. That makes me mad because these are smart people who should be checking their facts. And that's what I fully intend to do battle with—the ignorance.

A casual note to all lizards: Where did you learn the word and concept 'taqqiya'? Who told you about it? Did any of you learn it from a source that does not trace back to the work of Robert Spencer?

219 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:00:19pm

re: #203 Spare O'Lake

"Inherently suspect" is your phrase, not mine. I just thought it should be looked at more closely.
If the Imam had not originally stated that the funding would be from New York Muslims, I would not have been so intrigued by his later inconsistent statement.

Um... do you know what the word "suspect" means?

220 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:00:28pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

Cash. As in, the money might be from Saudi, it might be from local Muslims, or it might be from the Pakistani Taliban.

Smell test.

And here's the deed:

[Link: a836-acris.nyc.gov...]

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:01:17pm

re: #210 Spare O'Lake

Such funding needs to be looked at closely to ensure that it comes from legitimate sources. As far as the Saudis are concerned, you can kiss their terrorist-supporting wahabbist asses all you want...but for me, I'll assume the worst about those corrupt fuckers.

Spare, you're being outrageously offensive with this ass-kissing business. Do you start fretting and fuming about how we need to closely look at Saudi money when it's going to American big business? No, you don't. I've been around here long enough to know that.

You want there to be something wrong with the funding for this project. Now, there may be, but you're actively attacking anyone who suggests that it might not be a problem.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:01:33pm

re: #211 Spare O'Lake

Shouldn't anyone be very worried?

Never hear you bring it up.

223 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #220 Gus 802

And here's the deed:

[Link: a836-acris.nyc.gov...]

2009000236362
Lot 9
ENTIRE LOT
7/30/2009 2:37:35 PM
DEED
6
MITANI, CO-EXECUTOR, KUKIKO
45 PARK PLACE PARTNERS LLC
4,850,000

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:02:40pm

re: #214 Spare O'Lake

So you'll just close your eyes and give him a free pass? God, I hope not!

That doesn't deserve the courtesy of a reply.

225 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:03:41pm

re: #216 Obdicut

If you really wish the Saudis were not your ally then at the very least don't defer to them and give them the benefit of the doubt.

226 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:05:20pm

re: #225 Spare O'Lake

If you really wish the Saudis were not your ally then at the very least don't defer to them and give them the benefit of the doubt.

And again, please show where I've done that. Actually show it, rather than assert it.

You're not very good at that, though. You're much better at just throwing insults.

227 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:05:23pm

re: #225 Spare O'Lake

If you really wish the Saudis were not your ally then at the very least don't defer to them and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Right.

Image: 0115_george_bush_getty-1.jpg

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:06:43pm

re: #227 Gus 802

Right.

Image: 0115_george_bush_getty-1.jpg

I didn't like the Saudis before not liking the Saudis was cool.

229 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:08:01pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't like the Saudis before not liking the Saudis was cool.

Funny that we keep selling them weapons and aircraft.

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:10:11pm

re: #229 Gus 802

Funny that we keep selling them weapons and aircraft.

And that we've invaded two totally other countries to fight terror.

231 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:10:59pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

And that we've invaded two totally other countries to fight terror.

You think. Maybe, just maybe. It might have something to do with... oil and money?

/

232 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:11:04pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

Cash. As in, the money might be from Saudi, it might be from local Muslims, or it might be from the Pakistani Taliban.

Smell test.

Doesn't the term "cash" as used when describing a real estate deal simply mean that the proceeds weren't borrowed via a mortgage? That is how I understand the term.

That being the case, I suppose the cash could come from anywhere on Earth.

Having said that, I still struggle with the apparent presumption that the money is suspicious. It is as if the idea of a Muslim having access to funds creates a presumption of criminality.

233 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:11:20pm

As a Catholic, I must say that if the Christian Brothers wanted to buy a building for the Education of Choirboys in the Catholic Faith, I'd be happier knowing where the money came from.

Not "cash", but where the money came from.

Is it wrong of me to wonder the same thing about a controversial mosque?

234 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:11:23pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

A casual note to all lizards: Where did you learn the word and concept 'taqqiya'? Who told you about it? Did any of you learn it from a source that does not trace back to the work of Robert Spencer?

Y'know I googled it a couple of weeks ago and was hard pressed to find any definition that didn't lead back to his work. I found a couple that were partially accurate (which is just as bad, IMO) and several that conflated the shia version of taqiyya with the much more widespread (and traditional) Sunni version.

In the end, I was unable to find ANY version that was 100% correct. At that point I spoke with an Islamic scholar to make sure my own understanding of it was well-grounded. I actually learned a couple of things from him about it (no surprise there). I've got about half the content for an LGF page on it prepared, so I guess I really need to get with the program and get that posted this weekend.

235 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:13:16pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

As a Catholic, I must say that if the Christian Brothers wanted to buy a building for the Education of Choirboys in the Catholic Faith, I'd be happier knowing where the money came from.

Not "cash", but where the money came from.

Is it wrong of me to wonder the same thing about a controversial mosque?

And if it was a synagogue would you care?

236 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:14:13pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

As a Catholic, I must say that if the Christian Brothers wanted to buy a building for the Education of Choirboys in the Catholic Faith, I'd be happier knowing where the money came from.

Not "cash", but where the money came from.

Is it wrong of me to wonder the same thing about a controversial mosque?

No. I already posted the deed.

The official purchaser was Soho Properties.

237 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:15:05pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Spare, you're being outrageously offensive with this ass-kissing business. Do you start fretting and fuming about how we need to closely look at Saudi money when it's going to American big business? No, you don't. I've been around here long enough to know that.

You want there to be something wrong with the funding for this project. Now, there may be, but you're actively attacking anyone who suggests that it might not be a problem.

Sorry, but you must have me confused with someone else. If you really knew my posting history you would never accuse me of being pro-Saudi in any way, shape or form.
I have not said that the funding is a problem. What I have said is that foreign funding from Arab Muslim countries is a red flag and my attacks are on those who can smell only PC unicorn farts.

238 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:15:35pm

re: #236 Gus 802

No. I already posted the deed.

The official purchaser was Soho Properties.

Then this IS suspicious: the site is in Tribeca.

I think some waterboarding is in order.

239 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:15:49pm

re: #236 Gus 802

No. I already posted the deed.

The official purchaser was Soho Properties.

And what the fuck does that say about where the money came from?

240 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:16:55pm

re: #239 Cato the Elder

And what the fuck does that say about where the money came from?

You'll have to drive to Manhattan and visit there offices to begin your investigation. While there you can visit Iceweasel before she leaves for the UK.

241 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:17:19pm

re: #235 garhighway

And if it was a synagogue would you care?

Asshole.

242 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:18:41pm

re: #239 Cato the Elder

And what the fuck does that say about where the money came from?

Here you go. More information!

[Link: appext9.dos.state.ny.us...]

Selected Entity Name: SOHO PROPERTIES GENERAL PARTNER, LLC
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: SOHO PROPERTIES GENERAL PARTNER, LLC
Initial DOS Filing Date: JULY 08, 2009
County: NEW YORK
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Entity Type: FOREIGN LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE

The plot thickens!

243 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:18:48pm

re: #241 Cato the Elder

Asshole.

Oh.

OK: I guess you must be right.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:18:55pm

re: #231 Gus 802

You think. Maybe, just maybe. It might have something to do with... oil and money?

/

Nah.

//

245 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:19:15pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

Well, you were talking about cash and suitcases, which I really don't think bears any resemblance to reality; in real estate, cash means not credit.

Yes, who's funding it is important. Nobody has said that it isn't important. What I've said is that money from foreign Muslims isn't automatically suspicious, and that it's kind of lunacy to get all suspicious about this relatively small amount of money when billions, literally, from the Muslim Arab world gets invested in the US-- including in media corporations, every year.

246 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:20:41pm

re: #242 Gus 802

The plot thickens!

And a Limited Liability Corp? What kind of slimy dodge is that? I say we Taser them.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:21:31pm

re: #232 garhighway

Doesn't the term "cash" as used when describing a real estate deal simply mean that the proceeds weren't borrowed via a mortgage? That is how I understand the term.

That being the case, I suppose the cash could come from anywhere on Earth.

Having said that, I still struggle with the apparent presumption that the money is suspicious. It is as if the idea of a Muslim having access to funds creates a presumption of criminality.

It shouldn't, but the Saudis do pour hellacious amounts of money into assorted foreign Muslim projects, and that does trouble me for a number of reasons. Little kids going to the Muslim Cultural Center in New York...I do not want the reach of Saudi money going anywhere near their little heads.

Now, is there anything legally I can do about it? Probably not. Which is why I continue to watch this story with interest, but without getting too worked up about it.

248 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:21:37pm

re: #227 Gus 802

Guess what, asshole? I have taken hundreds of down-dings in the past for calling Bush and Rice oil whores. You really don't know me at all.

249 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:22:57pm

re: #248 Spare O'Lake

Guess what, asshole? I have taken hundreds of down-dings in the past for calling Bush and Rice oil whores. You really don't know me at all.

Huh? It was a joke. And you're responding by calling me an asshole? I've been trying to let you be including not down dinging you like a lot of people have been doing today.

Get help.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:23:33pm

re: #234 CuriousLurker

Y'know I googled it a couple of weeks ago and was hard pressed to find any definition that didn't lead back to his work. I found a couple that were partially accurate (which is just as bad, IMO) and several that conflated the shia version of taqiyya with the much more widespread (and traditional) Sunni version.

In the end, I was unable to find ANY version that was 100% correct. At that point I spoke with an Islamic scholar to make sure my own understanding of it was well-grounded. I actually learned a couple of things from him about it (no surprise there). I've got about half the content for an LGF page on it prepared, so I guess I really need to get with the program and get that posted this weekend.

I'd like to see that. 'Taqiyya' is, frankly, one of those terms that's as constantly and stupidly used in certain online forums as 'dhimmi'. I honestly have bigger issues with 'dhimmi', but the whole Arabic for the Anti-Jihadi vocabulary is somewhat suspect in my book.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:24:49pm

re: #237 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, but you must have me confused with someone else. If you really knew my posting history you would never accuse me of being pro-Saudi in any way, shape or form.
I have not said that the funding is a problem. What I have said is that foreign funding from Arab Muslim countries is a red flag and my attacks are on those who can smell only PC unicorn farts.

Spare, you're attacking people for holding different opinions than you. Trying to cover that up with "PC unicorn fart" rhetoric doesn't make that a good debate technique.

252 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:25:10pm

re: #234 CuriousLurker

Y'know I googled it a couple of weeks ago and was hard pressed to find any definition that didn't lead back to his work. I found a couple that were partially accurate (which is just as bad, IMO) and several that conflated the shia version of taqiyya with the much more widespread (and traditional) Sunni version.

In the end, I was unable to find ANY version that was 100% correct. At that point I spoke with an Islamic scholar to make sure my own understanding of it was well-grounded. I actually learned a couple of things from him about it (no surprise there). I've got about half the content for an LGF page on it prepared, so I guess I really need to get with the program and get that posted this weekend.

I will look forward to your take on this subject.

For the record, the same accusations ("Muslims lie because their religion allows them to") have been made down through the centuries against Jews, Catholics (particularly Jesuits), and nearly every other reviled group under the sun.

Spencer makes a big deal out of Muhammad's quote that "war is deception".

Huh?

You can find the same statement by every general worth his salt down through the ages, from Alexander to Sherman to Patton to the Clinton War Room.

Please carry on.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:26:16pm

re: #237 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, but you must have me confused with someone else. If you really knew my posting history you would never accuse me of being pro-Saudi in any way, shape or form.
I have not said that the funding is a problem. What I have said is that foreign funding from Arab Muslim countries is a red flag and my attacks are on those who can smell only PC unicorn farts.

And I did not accuse you of being pro-Saudi (which you've done to Obdi). I said that when Fox News runs a story that's being discussed here, you don't begin obsessively worrying about how the Saudi money there might be influencing them.

254 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:28:44pm

See. You try to play it cool and it still doesn't work. I guess making fun out of the New York Post and posting an image of Bush kissing the Saudi King is considered and insult and not PC!

255 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:29:20pm

re: #235 garhighway

And if it was a synagogue would you care?

Actually, yes, dickweed. If the money came from Neturei Karta, I'd care very much indeed.

256 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:31:41pm

re: #249 Gus 802

Huh? It was a joke. And you're responding by calling me an asshole? I've been trying to let you be including not down dinging you like a lot of people have been doing today.

Get help.

Sorry, my sense of humour is a bit frayed right now. Please forgive my misdirected insult.

257 TedStriker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:32:57pm

re: #252 Cato the Elder

I will look forward to your take on this subject.

For the record, the same accusations ("Muslims lie because their religion allows them to") have been made down through the centuries against Jews, Catholics (particularly Jesuits), and nearly every other reviled group under the sun.

Spencer makes a big deal out of Muhammad's quote that "war is deception".

Huh?

You can find the same statement by every general worth his salt down through the ages, from Alexander to Sherman to Patton to the Clinton War Room.

Please carry on.

Isn't that quote originally (or most famously) from Sun Tzu (from The Art of War)?

258 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:33:01pm

re: #256 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, my sense of humour is a bit frayed right now. Please forgive my misdirected insult.

OK.

259 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:33:06pm

Sorry to cut & run, but I have a chicken that needs to be seasoned and cooked, so I lower my fists and put on some oven mitts for the time being.

Hope everyone has a great evening (including the Lizards I was spitting mad at a little while ago).

260 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:33:44pm

re: #256 Spare O'Lake

Why not just not insult people, Spare?

Seriously, especially with the numerous warnings Charles has given over the past weeks, why engage in pointless-- and inaccurate-- insult-binges?

261 Gus  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 3:39:23pm

Guess there's nothing else for me to add. It's not I want to convert people anyway. If anything is not on the level I'm pretty sure the authorities would be on the case. If it was a cash transfer of 4.8 million dollars that would still be traceable since it would have to be wired to the USA.

That sure was a deal for 4.8 million dollars. 13 stories and right in the heart of Manhattan.

262 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 4:02:40pm

re: #255 Cato the Elder

Actually, yes, dickweed. If the money came from Neturei Karta, I'd care very much indeed.

I suspect that if the building under consideration was a downtown JCC or 92nd St Y or Mormon Temple or Baptist Church we wouldn't be having this exchange. There would be no articles, no Op-Eds, no hate ads, no speculation about suitcases of cash (!) no nothing.

But it's a mosque, so we are.

To me, the essence of bigotry is drawing conclusions about a person or group solely because of their belonging to a particular race, religion, nationality, gender or sexual orientation. I would respectfully suggest that this is exactly what is going on here.

OK. I'm done. You can call me some more names now.

263 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 4:16:37pm

re: #262 garhighway

I'd refine that slightly: To me, the hilarious part is that every major company in the US has Muslim Arab investors. FOX has a huge amount of Saudi Arabian money in it. Halliburton-- which services our armed forces-- has Muslim investors and is moving to Dubai.

And yet it's the building of a religious and community center that people freak out about.

I really don't understand it.

264 garhighway  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 4:19:56pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I'd refine that slightly: To me, the hilarious part is that every major company in the US has Muslim Arab investors. FOX has a huge amount of Saudi Arabian money in it. Halliburton-- which services our armed forces-- has Muslim investors and is moving to Dubai.

And yet it's the building of a religious and community center that people freak out about.

I really don't understand it.

I know. We send them a gazillion dollars, and then we are surprised that some of it comes back. And in NY, a city with a LOT of Muslims, we are surprised that they would want a place to pray, study and hang out. Like a JCC or 92nd St Y.

It's just so damn sinister.

265 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 15, 2010 5:55:24pm

I just wanted to say thank you to Charles for linking this article to my LGF page on the subject.


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