Sarah Palin Calls on ‘Peaceful Muslims’ to ‘Refudiate’ Their Own Religion

Wingnuts • Views: 13,600

Sarah Palin is joining forces with Pamela Geller and the raving anti-Muslim Bigot Brigade at last! Her new Twitter post calls on “peaceful Muslims” to “refudiate” (yes, she really said it again and no, it doesn’t seem to be a joke) the “Ground Zero mosque.”

Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate

UPDATE at 7/18/10 11:31:02 am:

Heh. Looks like someone caught Sarah’s little oopsie; the tweet has now been deleted. (That’s why I grabbed a screenshot.) She replaced it with this one, using the word “refute” this time and replacing “peaceful Muslims” with “peaceful New Yorkers:”

Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real

I almost hate to point it out, but “refute,” although it has the advantage of being an actual word, is still the wrong word to use in this context. But the posting and subsequent deletion of the “refudiation” tweet does establish one thing — it’s probably really Sarah Palin writing these tweets, since she used the same non-word last week on Fox News.

UPDATE at 7/18/10 12:00:36 pm:

Sarah’s really worked up about this issue! Another tweet:

Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing

UPDATE at 7/18/10 12:15:53 pm:

It should be pointed out (again) that the “Ground Zero mosque” these idiots are ranting about is actually a proposed community center with an auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants, in addition to a mosque. It would be housed in an existing 13-story building that’s two blocks away from Ground Zero and has no view of the area; there are two very big buildings in between the proposed community center and Ground Zero. Here is an embedded Google Map in which you can clearly see that the idea of this being a “Ground Zero mosque” is a ridiculous paranoid fantasy.


View Larger Map

Suppose the community center was five blocks away instead of two blocks away.

Would that be OK?

How about if it was in midtown?

Far enough?

Maybe it needs to be in Queens?

If you want a special exception to America’s religious tolerance, where are you going to draw the line?

Jump to bottom

1011 comments

1 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:08:40am

Actually, I'm still boggled by the language used.

" as it does ours throughout the heartland?"

whats that even mean?

PS: Religious hate is religious hate, which is disgusting.

2 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:10:20am

So "refudiate" is now an official part of the Teabagger lexicon?

I guess that's how it's pronounced when you're talking with your mouth full of bollocks.

3 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:11:15am

Does she ask peaceful christians to refudiate [sic] any of their houses of worship?

4 Four More Tears  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:11:31am

I'm confused... don't "peaceful muslims" have the right to build this mosque in the first place?

/

5 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:12:03am

Did you mean: define: repudiate

No definitions were found for refudiate.

Suggestions:

- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

6 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:13:37am

This is where I get to make my obligatory "I hate Palin so much" comment.
Hate. Her.
So much.

and I have decided that I really hate whoever came up with Twitter and Facebook because these give this grifter so much room to spew her crap.
and seriously? And when did a pray room in a building blocks from "ground zero" become something anyone has to "refudiate".

7 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:14:00am

re: #1 windsagio

doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland?

It ought to have said "in your hearts,"

8 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:14:23am

re: #4 JasonA

I'm confused... don't "peaceful muslims" have the right to build this mosque in the first place?

/

I guess not in "real America"....

9 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:15:26am

re: #7 Ojoe

last half still doesn't make any sense :p
re: #6 webevintage #4 JasonA

This is where someone shouts at the top of their lungs "RELIGION OF PEACE!!!"

10 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:15:36am

I used to have an aversion to bleeding hearts, until I met the bleeding heartlanders.

11 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:15:49am

re: #6 webevintage

This is where I get to make my obligatory "I hate Palin so much" comment.
Hate. Her.
So much.

Yep. Can't stand her either. She grates on my last nerve.

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:15:57am

So it seems, in effect, she is asking peaceful Muslims to do what the NAACP is asking of the Tea Party: to distance themselves from their extremist elements.

I can cope with that concept, but I do not see the Mosque 51 or whatever they have renamed it as an act of irrefudiation of in that respect.

(Refudiate? Is that what would happen if the Hatfields & McCoys took to shootin' at each other again?)

13 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:16:25am

re: #9 windsagio

Oh well it needed a total rewrite.

14 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:16:53am

re: #13 Ojoe

true enough :D

15 boyo  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:18:07am

aaaahh i see what shes doing there ...

shes owning the word like she owned writing on her palm..that palin sure is tricky


/

16 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:18:22am

She doesn't know the difference between a Sufi and a Salafist? Between a community center and a mosque?

Is she ignorant or something?

(heh)

17 Summer Seale  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:18:24am

Hi everyone!

Sarah Palin here....

As some of you may know, Tweeter is only like...one hundred and forty carrots long or something, so it makes it hard for me to announce all my words that I want to say.

But what I want to say is this: Please, please, refudiate this terrible idea which is going to be planted in the site of ground zero of Oklahoma city or something where a terrible implosion took place by these really bad terrorists back in 2001. Remember how we all watched it on the news? In fact, I was living in Alass-ka at the time and it's so clear there that we could see it right across the water! We watched all of it. How terrible.

What I want to say is to all peaceful Islamics people: please refudiate and conversion to Christ right away, ok? You know, he's done so much for me in my lifetime, and I just wish everyone would understand how funnemental he is to peace and prosperity in this nation. Because it's so great to be an unamerican, isn't it? Right folks? You Betcha!

You know, a lot of people say that it's us against them, but it isn't really is it? It's about Americans pulling togetherness to fight off the bad guys, and you guys on the other side want to be on the right side, right? I know what I say is striking a sword with lots of people, because they all seem to follow me around and agree with me!

So please, get on board! Let's candle this project before it starts and make sure that everyone is together on this!

God Bless American!

Sarah Palin.

18 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:18:57am

re: #3 allegro

Does she ask peaceful christians to refudiate [sic] any of their houses of worship?

Of course not. The only religious extremists that exist are Muslim ones. There are no Christian extremists.

/Mark Williams

19 srjh  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:19:03am

I'm increasingly surprised with how much stupid you can fit into 140 or fewer characters.

20 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:19:28am

re: #19 srjh

Just wait until its 7 second random thoughtcasts.

21 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:20:22am

re: #19 srjh

Hell they ought to allow only 10 characters, it would be hilarious.

BBL

22 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:20:28am

re: #15 boyo

aaahh i see what shes doing there ...

shes owning the word like she owned writing on her palm..that palin sure is tricky


/

Someone will tell her about disavowal quotation marks.

Still traveling-BBL

23 aurelius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:20:30am

No effing way...

again with the refudiate?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

24 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:21:57am

re: #23 aurelius

It is a code:

re F U diate.

25 brennant  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:22:04am

My MacBook Pro dictionary:

"Refudiate" could not be found.

26 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:22:40am

BTW, looks like the original Tweet was deleted. The new one says "refute" instead of "refudiate".

27 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #26 Lidane

BTW, looks like the original Tweet was deleted. The new one says "refute" instead of "refudiate".

That's why I posted the screenshot. Heh.

28 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:23:12am

re: #26 Lidane

Her staff just noticed that they'd left the computers unguarded again.

29 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:23:23am

re: #20 windsagio

Just wait until its 7 second random thoughtcasts.

That sounds like something out of a dystopian sci-fi novel. Or CNN's latest desperate-attempt-at-upping-ratings gimmick.

30 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:23:33am

re: #26 Lidane

BTW, looks like the original Tweet was deleted. The new one says "refute" instead of "refudiate".

LOL the idjit really didn't know.

31 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:01am

re: #29 publicityStunted

Just tryin' to think of something to top the stream-of-stupidity that twitter is right now :)

32 aurelius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:20am

re: #27 Charles

That's why I posted the screenshot. Heh.

awesome...

repudiate is also a word, Sarah.... and actually that's what you meant rather than refute.

Screencap again-- I bet it gets changed again to repudiate.

33 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:36am

re: #30 Stanley Sea

It is probably not a typo either, look at a keyboard, P and F are far apart.

34 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:52am

re: #27 Charles

That's why I posted the screenshot. Heh.

Heh, true.

35 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:54am

re: #19 srjh

I'm increasingly surprised with how much stupid you can fit into 140 or fewer characters.

When I still did Twitter, I made it a game to always use exactly 140 characters. No more, no less.

It's a form of art known as "constrained writing". Sometimes I'd have to work my tweets around for half an hour to get it right, but it always worked. And I never, never used abbreviations.

Someone should enforce that rule on Sarah Palin. It might actually make her stop and think for a minute.

Nah. Scratch that.

36 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:24:57am

This is actually pretty good evidence that it's really her posting these tweets. With someone looking over her shoulder and saying, "Wait a minute - I'm not sure refudiate is a word..."

37 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:25:13am

Calling Dan Quayle. Calling Dan Quayle. WE'VE FOUND YOUR SOUL MATE DUDE!

38 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:25:16am

Refudiate: to reinstate the nobility, vassalage and serfdom.

Refudiate: the opposite of "remanydiate"

To present irrefudable evidence

39 brennant  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:25:52am

re: #36 Charles

Perhaps everyone around her is dumber than a box of hammers. Or whatever.

40 Girth  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:26:22am

Aww, she misheard the word "repudiate" as "refudiate" and then used it in conversation.

Aren't kids so cute when they do stuff like that?

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:26:22am

re: #37 eclectic infidel

Calling Dan Quayle. Calling Dan Quayle. WE'VE FOUND YOUR SOUL MATE DUDE!

Palin/Quayle in 2012! Orthodoxy and orthography!

42 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:26:42am

(I deleted my own first tweet to the LGF post, by the way, but not to hide anything -- because I hit Return by accident when I was posting it, and the title of the post didn't make sense.)

43 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:27:05am

re: #39 brennant

It goes back to a discussion I saw the other day about whether she will go for office again etc.

I think her twitter is just more evidence that she really has no freakin' idea at all, and thinks she's riding the crest of a great wave of real Americanism.

44 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:27:32am

re: #40 Girth

Was cute when she did it a few days ago ;)

45 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:27:57am

re: #28 windsagio

Her staff just noticed that they'd left the computers unguarded again.

Either that or someone tried to translate her word salad into something coherent. The new Tweet talks about the pain of Ground Zero being too raw and too real.

Is the pain really still that raw and real after almost nine years? I could understand for people who directly lost someone in the attacks, but for a politician from Alaska? Really?

46 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:04am

re: #26 Lidane

BTW, looks like the original Tweet was deleted. The new one says "refute" instead of "refudiate".

Definitions of refute on the Web:

* overthrow by argument, evidence, or proof; "The speaker refuted his opponent's arguments"
* prove to be false or incorrect

Definitions of repudiate on the Web:

* disown: cast off; "She renounced her husband"; "The parents repudiated their son"
* refuse to acknowledge, ratify, or recognize as valid; "The woman repudiated the divorce settlement"

So, even the "corrected" tweet doesn't use the appropriate word. EPIK PHAIL.

47 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:06am

Posting cffom my blackberry in what is known as the heartland, flover countryN the land ofc Lincoln aka Illinois. Robinson, I'll. - home to Marathon Oil, The Heathbar and the guy whowrote From Here To Eernity and my xr year old mother who jhas just declkared to my bro that Palin is a dumbass. Yep, her words.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:14am

re: #10 Cato the Elder

I used to have an aversion to bleeding hearts, until I met the bleeding heartlanders.

Were they from bleeding Kansas?

49 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:25am

re: #27 Charles

That's why I posted the screenshot. Heh.

Now getting "that page does not exist" when I click the link

50 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:40am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Were they from bleeding Kansas?

That would be a freakin' impressive grudge to hold!

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:28:58am

re: #12 ralphieboy

So it seems, in effect, she is asking peaceful Muslims to do what the NAACP is asking of the Tea Party: to distance themselves from their extremist elements.

I can cope with that concept, but I do not see the Mosque 51 or whatever they have renamed it as an act of irrefudiation of in that respect.

(Refudiate? Is that what would happen if the Hatfields & McCoys took to shootin' at each other again?)

I wish they hadn't changed the name. Park51 sounds like the name of a pretentious restaurant.

52 brennant  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:29:00am

re: #43 windsagio

It goes back to a discussion I saw the other day about whether she will go for office again etc.

I think her twitter is just more evidence that she really has no freakin' idea at all, and thinks she's riding the crest of a great wave of real Americanism.

I don't think she gets this is fringe behavior, and she will win jack shit.

53 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:29:27am

re: #52 brennant

I don't think she gets this is fringe behavior, and she will win jack shit.

Hehe, the question was 'try' not 'win' ;)

54 aurelius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:29:53am

re: #49 Thanos

Now getting "that page does not exist" when I click the link

heh, they figured out "refute" was wrong too...

55 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:29:55am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

That would be a freakin' hot club!

Area 51 meets Studio 54!

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:10am

re: #19 srjh

I'm increasingly surprised with how much stupid you can fit into 140 or fewer characters.

Hemingway started a trend of writing six-word short stories.

57 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:22am

Heh, my fingers are numb.

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:37am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

I wish they hadn't changed the name. Park51 sounds like the name of a pretentious restaurant.

"Cordoba House" was too loaded a concept: instead of recalling images of Muslims and Christians living in enlightened harmony, it was used to refer to Bin Laden's call to reinstate the Capiphate of Cordoba: i.e., to reconquer Spain

59 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:37am

re: #27 Charles

That's why I posted the screenshot. Heh.

The intertubes iz forevah!

60 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:48am

re: #54 aurelius

heh, they figured out "refute" was wrong too...

Or it's a hoax page, did it say whatever it is twitter accts say when they are officially validated as belonging to that person?

61 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:30:56am

From now on, whenever one of these stories makes its own thread, the first response should be,

"Dammit Sarah!"

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:31:23am

re: #37 eclectic infidel

Calling Dan Quayle. Calling Dan Quayle. WE'VE FOUND YOUR SOUL MATE DUDE!

Dan would never have gotten as far as he did without Marilyn. He's not going anywhere for his soul mate.

63 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:32:59am

Excellent update to the post Charles.

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:33:42am

re: #58 ralphieboy

"Cordoba House" was too loaded a concept: instead of recalling images of Muslims and Christians living in enlightened harmony, it was used to refer to Bin Laden's call to reinstate the Capiphate of Cordoba: i.e., to reconquer Spain

I suppose I live too much in the past...my associations with Cordoba are pretty good.

65 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:33:58am

re: #41 ralphieboy

Palin/Quayle in 2012! Orthodoxy and orthography!

Someone needs to tell her, maybe not in person so as to avoid a very awkward situation, but she needs to be told. Yes, this is my compassion speaking out.

66 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:34:00am

re: #60 Thanos

Or it's a hoax page, did it say whatever it is twitter accts say when they are officially validated as belonging to that person?

Ok I followed the link from her facebook page to her twitter page, it now says this:

Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real

67 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:34:25am

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose I live too much in the past...my associations with Cordoba are pretty good.

Yeah, I never would have made the connection above either.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:34:41am

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

I suppose I live too much in the past...my associations with Cordoba are pretty good.

It's the fine Corinthian leather interiors...

69 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:34:53am

re: #66 Thanos

Also the account says "verified" and matches the one Charles posted originally so it really is her.

70 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:34:55am

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

Dan would never have gotten as far as he did without Marilyn. He's not going anywhere for his soul mate.

You're probably right.

71 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:35:34am

re: #60 Thanos

Or it's a hoax page, did it say whatever it is twitter accts say when they are officially validated as belonging to that person?

Nope, not a hoax page. It's all Sarah.

72 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:35:52am

"Peaceful Muslims: pls refudiate ever building a mosque in the US, otherwise we will cornsider you non-peaceful. Love, Sarah."

73 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:35:59am

re: #71 Stanley Sea

See my followups, it's definitely her.

74 Girth  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:36:21am

Dear Sarah,

Nice tweet you twit.

Love,

Girth

75 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:36:29am

Sarah, you little religious bigot you....

76 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:36:36am

re: #66 Thanos

See Charles' update to this post above. She changed refudiate, and Muslims to New Yorkers.

77 aurelius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:37:11am

re: #76 Stanley Sea

See Charles' update to this post above. She changed refudiate, and Muslims to New Yorkers.

It'll get changed again...

78 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:37:26am

At one point on Twitter she had 2 posts.
The first moronic one and then the less moronic one.
NOW only the 2nd, less moronic one is there.
That Sarah she is a tricksy one....

79 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:37:34am

re: #77 aurelius

It'll get changed again...


When her meds finally kick in.

80 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:38:20am

re: #79 Stanley Sea

When her

meds

handlers finally kick in.

81 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:38:22am

I remember the days when I would still get massive downdings for pointing out that Sarah Palin is a blithering blatherskite with shite for brains.

Ahem.

I told you so.

82 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:38:35am

Oops, button fail.

83 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:38:52am

re: #81 Cato the Elder

Those were the good old days before the blog went to hell ;)

84 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:39:41am

I'm BAAAAAA-aaaaacckkk


(10 days at the beach is not NEARLY enough,,The countdown to retirement and full time beachcomber status marches on!!)

85 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:40:36am

At least it's a real word, but "refute" is STILL wrong.

86 aurelius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:41:23am

re: #85 Charles

At least it's a real word, but "refute" is STILL wrong.

yup. not even close.

87 Girth  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:41:35am

re: #81 Cato the Elder

I remember the days when I would still get massive downdings for pointing out that Sarah Palin is a blithering blatherskite with shite for brains.

Ahem.

I told you so.

I remember talking with my Dad the day after she got tapped for VP by McCain. He LOVED her. I told him he was fucked in the head.

88 philosophus invidius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:42:03am

re: #66 Thanos

Peaceful New Yorkers, pls refute the Ground Zero mosque plan if you believe catastrophic pain caused @ Twin Towers site is too raw, too real

Still wrong on the third try.

89 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:42:16am

re: #87 Girth

I remember talking with my Dad the day after she got tapped for VP by McCain. He LOVED her. I told him he was fucked in the head.

wow ,, nice respect for you dad there !!!

90 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:43:24am

re: #87 Girth

I remember talking with my Dad the day after she got tapped for VP by McCain. He LOVED her. I told him he was fucked in the head.

I was talking with one of my neighbors who was SHOCKED that I didn't intend to vote for her cuz she's a woman, and I'm a woman, so OF COURSE I would vote for her.

91 calochortus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:43:39am

Urban Dictionary has a reference to refudiate that dates from a month ago. Note the connection to interviewing pot sellers...

92 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:43:58am

Refute, confute, confound, and defenestrate the Tea Party!

93 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:44:39am

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Refute, confute, confound, and defenestrate the Tea Party!

Thats why I drink coffee!

94 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:44:43am

The anti-Mosque crusaders aren't limited to Ground Zero. I linked to an LA Times story regarding a Mosque being opposed by a noticeable group of people in Temecula Valley, California.

We The People - Citizens in Action, a Tea Party group, has this bizarre notion on Islam:

..."a radically intolerant belief system that is incompatible with the freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution."

Then there is an Islamic center in Murfreesboro, Tennessee and the one in Staten Island.

95 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:45:26am

re: #81 Cato the Elder

I remember the days when I would still get massive downdings for pointing out that Sarah Palin is a blithering blatherskite with shite for brains.

Ahem.

I told you so.

re: #83 windsagio

Those were the good old days before the blog went to hell ;)

Being part of the new gone to hell crowd, I would've loved to have been here just to chime in with Cato. Otherwise, not so much.

96 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:45:59am

See y'all later, work was long and need a nap >

97 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:46:00am

One of these days, when I perfect my algorithm for animating fictional characters, I am going to turn Lisbeth Salander loose on the Teabaggers, and they will all wish they had never learned to type, much less use the internet.

98 theheat  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:48:35am

The dead ringer for Sarah Palin I know, and knew before Palin was ever on the world stage, used to constantly make up "sounds like another word" words, because her self-perceived intellect far exceeded her vocabulary. For awhile, when I was placing some advertising for her, I used to do my fair share of English cleanup. But, as her insistent stupidity became more burdensome, I'd let a few slip through to see if she or anyone else would figure out what an ignorant cow she was.

By the time I let the stuff through, unfiltered, she was barely coherent in print.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:48:56am

re: #94 Gus 802

The anti-Mosque crusaders aren't limited to Ground Zero. I linked to an LA Times story regarding a Mosque being opposed by a noticeable group of people in Temecula Valley, California.

We The People - Citizens in Action, a Tea Party group, has this bizarre notion on Islam:

Then there is an Islamic center in Murfreesboro, Tennessee and the one in Staten Island.


My SIL reports that there are protests against one being built near her. She's in Tennessee.

100 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:48:58am

re: #94 Gus 802

There are a lot of folks who still see the War on Terror as the Clash of Cultures: i.e., Christianity vs Islam. They will not be happy with any public manifestation of Islam in America.

101 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:49:46am

re: #87 Girth

I remember talking with my Dad the day after she got tapped for VP by McCain. He LOVED her. I told him he was fucked in the head.

A shame you weren't a lizard when you made that comment to him - you could have shared that little bit in this forum. :)

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:49:51am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

My SIL reports that there are protests against one being built near her. She's in Tennessee.

That must be the Murfreesboro one.

103 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:49:58am

What's also pretty funny is that to my understanding The Library of Congress is auto-archiving all tweets, which means it's probably still out there somewhere even after she deleted it.

104 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:50:02am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

My SIL reports that there are protests against one being built near her. She's in Tennessee.

Is she near Murfreesboro?

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:50:23am

re: #101 eclectic infidel

A shame you weren't a lizard when you made that comment to him - you could have shared that little bit in this forum. :)

The Exaltation of Sarah was serious around here, while it lasted.

106 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:50:27am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

My SIL reports that there are protests against one being built near her. She's in Tennessee.


The mosque in Muefeesboro is near a Civil War (sorry, War Between the States) battleground, which also makes it sacred. Weren't no Muslims fought in that war...

107 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:51:20am

Will Power wins in Toronto!

108 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:51:20am

On LoC archiving tweets:

[Link: blogs.loc.gov...]

109 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:51:35am

re: #100 ralphieboy

There are a lot of folks who still see the War on Terror as the Clash of Cultures: i.e., Christianity vs Islam. They will not be happy with any public manifestation of Islam in America.

Amazing isn't it? That a lot of the people that are opposed to these mosques claim to honor the Constitution. They must have never read it or read it through tea colored glasses.

110 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:52:22am

This post is getting retweeted a lot...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

111 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:53:06am

re: #106 ralphieboy

The mosque in Muefeesboro is near a Civil War (sorry, War Between the States) battleground, which also makes it sacred. Weren't no Muslims fought in that war...

I'm sure they'll be out there protesting to stop a Walmart from being built in the vicinity of that battleground.

/

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:53:17am

re: #109 Gus 802

Amazing isn't it? That a lot of the people that are opposed to these mosques claim to honor the Constitution. They must have never read it or read it through tea colored glasses.


These folks will draw no disctinction between Islam and Islamism, just as there are those who will not distinguish between Judiasm and Zionism.

113 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:54:05am

re: #111 Gus 802

I'm sure they'll be out there protesting to stop a Walmart from being built in the vicinity of that battleground.

/

That war was fought for the right to build Wal-Marts in the vicinity of anywhere

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:55:42am

re: #108 Thanos

On LoC archiving tweets:

[Link: blogs.loc.gov...]


I beilieve that when they finally open up the National Twitter Archive, Sarah Palin will have her own wing...

115 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:56:31am

Meanwhile, Napolitano and Beck have gone balls-out Geller.

They were talking yesterday about how Obama will probably try to stage an emergency to stop a November debacle at the polls.

"Expect the best, but prepare for the worst," says Blech. And Judge Shaved Chimp bobs his head up and down like a true Teabagger.

There is now no discernible difference between Fox News and the mad vodka bimbo from NYC.

116 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:56:59am
117 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:57:50am

A quote from Sarah's Facebook page:

“The charge that Tea Party Americans judge people by the color of their skin is false…and is a…diversionary tactic.”

That's correct -- sometimes teapartiers judge people based on their religion instead of the color of their skin like Sarah does.

118 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:58:50am

re: #115 Cato the Elder

I recall a similar charge against then President Bush by moonbats.

119 Max  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:59:58am

Sarah Palin tweets again.

Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing

120 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:00:04pm

The first thing that comes to mind every time Sarah Palin speaks:

Yes, I'm that shallow. Heh.

121 Girth  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:00:06pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, Napolitano and Beck have gone balls-out Geller.

They were talking yesterday about how Obama will probably try to stage an emergency to stop a November debacle at the polls.

"Expect the best, but prepare for the worst," says Blech. And Judge Shaved Chimp bobs his head up and down like a true Teabagger.


[Video]There is now no discernible difference between Fox News and the mad vodka bimbo from NYC.

Same thing the moonbats were fantasizing about under Bush...

Can these people really not see what they've become? It boggles the mind.

122 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:00:51pm

Sarah's really worked up about this issue! Another tweet:

Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing

123 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:00:59pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

They were talking yesterday about how Obama will probably try to stage an emergency to stop a November debacle at the polls.

Oh lord. I remember a bunch of idiots trying to convince me that Dubya was going to cancel elections in both 2004 and 2008. Didn't happen then, won't happen now with Obama.

124 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:01:26pm

re: #118 eclectic infidel

I recall a similar charge against then President Bush by moonbats.

Do you also recall it being made as a serious threat by "serious people" on national news?

Neither do I.

125 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:01:45pm

re: #119 Max D. Reinhardt

Sarah Palin tweets again.


Ah, don't provoke us, like those South Park guys did by portraying Mohammed or those Danish newspaper cartoonists...I am starting to get her wavelength now.

126 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:02:15pm

re: #121 Girth

Same thing the moonbats were fantasizing about under Bush...

Can these people really not see what they've become? It boggles the mind.

They haven't "become" that

They have always been that way,, BOTH fringe sides

It's just that5 when a "D" is in the White House, the wingnuts are louder. When an "R" is in the White House, the moonbats hold forth

127 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:02:53pm

Some people are deeply shallow. Sarah is their leader.

128 philosophus invidius  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:03:42pm

re: #119 Max D. Reinhardt

Finally gets it right by using the word "reject" instead of "refute." But I see that the "refute" tweet is still there.

129 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:03:59pm

re: #122 Charles

What kills me is the implicit suggestion in all this anti-"Ground Zero mosque" business is the suggestion that the only Muslims who died that day were the ones flying the planes into the buildings.

Also, how is a community center anything like a mosque again?

130 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:04:11pm

re: #98 theheat

The dead ringer for Sarah Palin I know, and knew before Palin was ever on the world stage, used to constantly make up "sounds like another word" words, because her self-perceived intellect far exceeded her vocabulary. For awhile, when I was placing some advertising for her, I used to do my fair share of English cleanup. But, as her insistent stupidity became more burdensome, I'd let a few slip through to see if she or anyone else would figure out what an ignorant cow she was.

By the time I let the stuff through, unfiltered, she was barely coherent in print.

I used to do that with select German translation clients who thought they knew English better than me.

Only clients I didn't care to keep, mind you.

Once, I did a brochure for a diplomatic (read: propaganda) arm of the old East German government. The disputed sentence, in German, read: "Die DDR betreibt eine offensive Friedenspolitik." In English, this should read something like: "The GDR maintains a proactive peace policy."

But when I showed it to the client, he got all huffy, and said, in his excellent English, "It gives the word offensive in English, too. Use the right word, please."

So the final brochure read, "The GDR maintains an offensive peace policy."

Needless to say, I requested that my name not appear as translator, and I never took another job from that bastard.

131 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:04:39pm

re: #124 allegro

Do you also recall it being made as a serious threat by "serious people" on national news?

Neither do I.

Read it on blogs, heard it from acquaintances, friends. It was all the buzz online for a bit.

132 sagehen  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:04:41pm

But this is how new words are born!

Just you wait, by the end of the year "refudiate" will be right up there with "truthiness" and "conversate" as noteworthy Americanisms.

/?
not sure if I should sarc-tag or not...

133 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:05:24pm

re: #129 Lidane

Oh dear lord. Being exposed to Sarah's Tweets has garbled my syntax. PIMF.

134 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:05:58pm

re: #122 Charles

Sarah's really worked up about this issue! Another tweet:

She should really think about letting that cut under her nose heal.

135 Girth  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:06:34pm
Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing

Peaceful Muslims...Please understand...your community center is unnecessary. Why, there's a Young Men's Christian Association just a few blocks away! It even has a pool!

136 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:07:52pm

Calling Sarah an ignorant bimbo is a massive insult to the ignorant bimbo community.

137 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:08:08pm

re: #135 Girth

Peaceful Muslims...Please understand...your community center is unnecessary. Why, there's a Young Men's Christian Association just a few blocks away! It even has a pool!

I heard on the radio that the YMCA is going to legally change the name to "The Y."

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:08:53pm

re: #137 eclectic infidel

I heard on the radio that the YMCA is going to legally change the name to "The Y."

Young Muslims' Cordoba Association

139 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:10:49pm

re: #137 eclectic infidel

I heard on the radio that the YMCA is going to legally change the name to "The Y."

Why?
/

140 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:10:56pm

re: #137 eclectic infidel

I heard on the radio that the YMCA is going to legally change the name to "The Y."

I think that happened about ten years ago. At least in Maryland.

141 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:11:32pm

re: #138 ralphieboy

Young Muslims' Cordoba Association

Clever, and convenient enough to be used in certain circles for propaganda.

142 avanti  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:12:16pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

The Exaltation of Sarah was serious around here, while it lasted.

Yep, I'd gladly agree with those that were hoping she'd run in 2012, and I still do, and for the obvious reason.

143 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:13:53pm

re: #142 avanti

Yep, I'd gladly agree with those that were hoping she'd run in 2012, and I still do, and for the obvious reason.

I'd enjoy just to watch the debates between Sarah and Obama. 'Twould result in much hilarity.

144 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:16:33pm

First Amendment to the Wingnut Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (except for Islam), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (except for Islam); or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances except for Muslims.

145 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:16:37pm

There's now a twitter hashtag: #refudiate

lol

146 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:21:20pm

re: #143 allegro

I'd enjoy just to watch the debates between Sarah and Obama. 'Twould result in much hilarity.

Just imagine the mental gymnastics people would need to spin her as the winner. That would be classic.

147 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:22:06pm

re: #129 Lidane

What kills me is the implicit suggestion in all this anti-"Ground Zero mosque" business is the suggestion that the only Muslims who died that day were the ones flying the planes into the buildings.

Also, how is a community center anything like a mosque again?

Well, if it's thirteen storeys of community center, and there's a mosque in there somewhere, it obviously equates to "them" taking over Hagia Sophia in 1453 and turning one of the greatest churches in the world into a mosque.

Yep. Former Burlington Coat Factory Building in Manhattan = Ναός τῆς Ἁγίας τοῦ Θεοῦ Σοφίας, the Church of the Holy Wisdom of God, in Constantinople.

Just ask Robert "Reconquista of Turkey" Spencer.

148 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:22:20pm

I still think building the mosque / community center is a bad idea.

149 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:23:17pm

re: #148 Racer X

I still think building the mosque / community center is a bad idea.


I really do not understand the point of it either, but this is America, if they wanna put it up there, they have the right.

150 sagehen  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:23:44pm

re: #123 Lidane

Oh lord. I remember a bunch of idiots trying to convince me that Dubya was going to cancel elections in both 2004 and 2008. Didn't happen then, won't happen now with Obama.

If Abraham Lincoln could stand for reelection in the midst of a full-scale shooting war spreading across half the country... nobody will ever have any excuse to cancel an election.

(that being said... the NY primary on 9/11/01 got a do-over a week later)

151 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:24:09pm

Apparently some guy nicked "philosophus invidius" has a problem with me on this thread.

This is me not giving a damn.

152 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:25:10pm

"Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing

Let me FTFY Sarah
"Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs will help hearts heal. Pls reject help fund and build it it in interest of healing and peace. Jesus would be proud.

Anyone good with twitter is invited to tweet this to her and her cohort. Thanks!

153 avanti  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:25:30pm

But you'll be able to see the new towers from the top floor ! /

154 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:26:48pm

re: #151 Cato the Elder

Apparently some guy nicked "philosophus invidius" has a problem with me on this thread.

This is me not giving a damn.

Why mention it or even check if you didn't give a damn?
(sorry ,, just sayin!)

155 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:27:04pm

She's clearly tweeting unsupervised, The staff must be smaller on the weekend shift.

156 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:27:38pm

re: #148 Racer X

I still think building the mosque / community center is a bad idea.

Because?

157 avanti  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:27:55pm

re: #143 allegro

I'd enjoy just to watch the debates between Sarah and Obama. 'Twould result in much hilarity.

If he can keep from giggling while he listens. No matter, the Sarah fans would think she crushed him with her plain spoke wisdom./

158 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:28:05pm

I'll bet Sarah says irregardless a lot too.

159 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:28:16pm

re: #148 Racer X

I still think building the mosque / community center is a bad idea.

Personally, I don't understand the problem.

I get that some people are still sensitive about the attacks all these years later. I understand that. But a Muslim community center in New York could turn out to be a positive, enabling people to draw clear distinctions between the more mainstream American Muslim community and the fanatical nutjobs that flew planes into the Twin Towers.

160 Linden Arden  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:28:40pm

re: #123 Lidane

Oh lord. I remember a bunch of idiots trying to convince me that Dubya was going to cancel elections in both 2004 and 2008. Didn't happen then, won't happen now with Obama.

True, but Bush did some oddball things - like revoking the Posse Comitatus Act

Imagine if Obama talked about that. The militia types would ammo up and disappear.

161 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:28:56pm

When I first heard about this whole thing I wasn't sure it was a good idea, but seeing the foaming-at-the-mouth hatred & intolerance it has exposed has changed my mind.

Now I'm 150% in favor of it.

162 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:29:10pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

Why mention it or even check if you didn't give a damn?
(sorry ,, just sayin!)

Hi Satt!
what up?

163 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:29:37pm

re: #146 Lidane

Just imagine the mental gymnastics people would need to spin her as the winner. That would be classic.

When your audience believes that everything the President says is a racist, Marxist screed that betrays his secret plans to destroy the country and all that is good and right, spinning Sarah as the winner of their debate is a simple exercise.

164 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:29:57pm

re: #162 HoosierHoops

Hi Satt!
what up?

heya Hoops!
just trying to get back into the groove after 10 days at the beach

you??!

165 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:30:42pm

re: #160 Linden Arden

True, but Bush did some oddball things - like revoking the Posse Comitatus Act

Imagine if Obama talked about that. The militia types would ammo up and disappear.

I remember that Bush wanted to place state National Guard militias under direct Federal control and not under that of the repsective state governors - a clear repudiation of the Second Amendment - and nobody saw an existential threat to our democracy there.

166 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:30:55pm

re: #158 Irenicum

I'll bet Sarah says irregardless a lot too.

And my bet still stands: she's going to get the nomination in 2012. Americkay is that fucking retarded.

167 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:31:38pm

re: #156 Cato the Elder

Because?

Because of who is behind it.

168 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:31:39pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

heya Hoops!
just trying to get back into the groove after 10 days at the beach

you??!

10 days at the Beach! Why..There ought to be a law..
I'm on the road this time next week to Oklahoma

169 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:31:47pm

Got a kickass storm going here with thunder booming. My dog has decided he needs to be in my lap so I don't get skeered. He's such a good protector.

170 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:32:35pm

By the way, stabbing the hearts of the undead zombie racist Nazis in this country is one of my favorite things to do.

171 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:32:56pm

re: #169 allegro

I wish we were having that storm up here. We could sure use it.

172 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:33:11pm

re: #168 HoosierHoops

10 days at the Beach! Why..There ought to be a law..
I'm on the road this time next week to Oklahoma

Yeah, I remember you saying that

I (probably) have to go to Tulsa for a couple of days this week

MAJOR culture shock after 10 days at the shore!

173 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:33:27pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

Why mention it or even check if you didn't give a damn?
(sorry ,, just sayin!)

I gave my opinion, and somebody downdinged me.

Ima go pout.

174 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:34:01pm

re: #173 Racer X

I gave my opinion, and somebody downdinged me.

Ima go pout.

There's an upding for you for balance!

175 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:35:16pm

re: #160 Linden Arden

True, but Bush did some oddball things - like revoking the Posse Comitatus Act

Imagine if Obama talked about that. The militia types would ammo up and disappear.

I had a long talk with some liberal friends over the Clinton answer to this issue. What Bill Clinton did (after Waco, Ruby Ridge and Oklahoma City) was essentially militarize all the big city police departments to up train and up arm them to deal with terrorists real or perceived. Which (in my mind) did at least as much to undermine the principle. When you local PD has swat teams armed and trained like HRT, buys armored vehicles and cross trains with special forces, what is the difference anyway?

Then of course as you said we had 9/11 and the Bush solution. Gah!

176 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:35:27pm

re: #173 Racer X

I gave my opinion, and somebody downdinged me.

Ima go pout.

Try explaining your opinion instead.

Or would that be an imposition?

177 avanti  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:35:36pm

Funny thing I noticed about a Muslim family that runs a mini mart near the casino. I asked the teen aged daughter for some fresh hot dog buns and noticed her attire. She was wearing the headscarf and long down to the floor robe deal, but when she walked, she flashed a fashionable above the knee skirt and a bit of leg. I'd bet she only wears the outfit around mom and dad and whips it off elsewhere. She seemed sort of on the edge of full assimilation.

178 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #158 Irenicum

I'll bet Sarah says irregardless a lot too.

That, no doubt, is "irrefudiable".

//

179 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:35:39pm

re: #165 ralphieboy

I remember that Bush wanted to place state National Guard militias under direct Federal control and not under that of the repsective state governors - a clear repudiation of the Second Amendment - and nobody saw an existential threat to our democracy there.

Of course they didn't. Bush was a Real American™-- white, male, straight, Christian, and Republican.

If Obama tried that, the same people who defended Bush for that would go on shooting sprees.

180 eastsider  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:36:18pm

refudiate is a perfectly cromulent word

181 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:36:38pm

re: #176 Cato the Elder

Try explaining your opinion instead.

Or would that be an imposition?

ummm,,me'thinks you missed the point!

182 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:36:39pm

re: #172 sattv4u2

Yeah, I remember you saying that

I (probably) have to go to Tulsa for a couple of days this week

MAJOR culture shock after 10 days at the shore!

When you live on Tulsa Time does one change the clock twice a year for daylight savings time?

183 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:37:19pm

re: #181 sattv4u2

ummm,,me'thinks you missed the point!

No, I see it right there on your head.

184 sagehen  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:37:36pm

re: #148 Racer X

I still think building the mosque / community center is a bad idea.

the JCC and the Y both have the occasional overtly religious event, but mostly they're activity centers. There's a pool (there's women's hours and men's hours and mixed hours, so the orthodox should have their chance too) and a gym (with classes), a speakers' series, screenings of movies that really don't have enough audience to book into a theater, there's an event space that people may rent for weddings or other events (and a kitchen in compliance with religious dietary restrictions), holiday dinners for people who don't have nearby family to celebrate with, a seniors social club, childcare classes and playgroups when the weather doesn't allow for going to the park, etc

I'm pretty sure the Jewish Singles events are only of interest to Jews, but I know I've seen plenty of goyim at the comedy nights.

185 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:37:43pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

When you live on Tulsa Time does one change the clock twice a year for daylight savings time?

Nahh ,, but I do set my calender to 1954!

186 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:37:55pm

re: #167 Racer X

Because of who is behind it.

And who is that?

187 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:38:30pm

re: #183 Cato the Elder

No, I see it right there on your head.

Guess only pointy headed people followed the posts then

Need a sharpener?

188 sagehen  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:40:38pm

re: #159 Lidane

Personally, I don't understand the problem.

I get that some people are still sensitive about the attacks all these years later. I understand that. But a Muslim community center in New York could turn out to be a positive, enabling people to draw clear distinctions between the more mainstream American Muslim community and the fanatical nutjobs that flew planes into the Twin Towers.

I'm hoping they have crafts classes... their tile work and rugweaving is pretty spectacular. The JCC crafts classes are all about candle-making and crochet, and I'm bored with it.

189 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:40:50pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

Tulsa time turns the clock back 100 years.

190 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:40:53pm

I don't care where "peaceful Muslims" build their mosques, subject to normal building codes.

However I do have reservations about the honesty of some Muslims, and a simple search for the name of the Imam of this new mosque reveals some highly questionable, if not utterly jihadist, opinions and connections that he has; and presumably also those paying for this facility.

I recognize that in this climate, what with Palin tweets etc, it wouldn't take but a poorly constructed post or two for LGF to be lumped in with all those being correctly criticized here; but I do yearn sometimes for something juicy about CAIR at least.

191 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:42:02pm

I fairly certain that no matter who was behind the building of this center. Am I to believe that if some other Muslim person was the public face if it, then people would suddenly be okay with it? Yeah right, if you believe that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

192 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:42:08pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

I don't care where "peaceful Muslims" build their mosques, subject to normal building codes.

However I do have reservations about the honesty of some Muslims, and a simple search for the name of the Imam of this new mosque reveals some highly questionable, if not utterly jihadist, opinions and connections that he has; and presumably also those paying for this facility.

I recognize that in this climate, what with Palin tweets etc, it wouldn't take but a poorly constructed post or two for LGF to be lumped in with all those being correctly criticized here; but I do yearn sometimes for something juicy about CAIR at least.

Jihadist? Where? That is, got a link?

193 sagehen  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:42:33pm

re: #165 ralphieboy

I remember that Bush wanted to place state National Guard militias under direct Federal control and not under that of the repsective state governors - a clear repudiation of the Second Amendment - and nobody saw the right wing didn't see an existential threat to our democracy there.

ftfy

The left most certainly did see it as a threat.

194 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:42:48pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

The Imam of this mosque has stated that all violent Jihad is wrong.

How is that a suspect opinion?

195 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:43:25pm

re: #191 CuriousLurker

I fairly certain that no matter who was behind the building of this center. Am I to believe that if some other Muslim person was the public face if it, then people would suddenly be okay with it? Yeah right, if you believe that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Damn. I need a bridge to get to Summer's island on Second Life.

Let's talk.

196 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:43:32pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

I don't care where "peaceful Muslims" build their mosques, subject to normal building codes.

However I do have reservations about the honesty of some Muslims, and a simple search for the name of the Imam of this new mosque reveals some highly questionable, if not utterly jihadist, opinions and connections that he has; and presumably also those paying for this facility.

I recognize that in this climate, what with Palin tweets etc, it wouldn't take but a poorly constructed post or two for LGF to be lumped in with all those being correctly criticized here; but I do yearn sometimes for something juicy about CAIR at least.

Sorry, but I have not seen any of the "jihadist" connections. I have read statements by the Imam, however, in which he very clearly condemns jihadism.

197 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:43:32pm

re: #184 sagehen

I had many friends who were members of the SIJCC and they (Jewish) invited me (Goy) to come to the pool to learn swimming. I love the JCC. It's great for the community. In fact, when our church burned down we met at the local JCC till the new building was built. They welcomed us with open arms.

198 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:43:42pm

re: #176 Cato the Elder

Try explaining your opinion instead.

Or would that be an imposition?

When I googled the guy behind the mosque I found lots of stuff that makes me question his motives. I thought we went through all this the other day. If someone has info that shows he is really a nice guy, I'm open to change my mind.

I'm still looking at him with a wary eye.

Doesn't make me a bigot or a racist or a hater. I'm not saying the government should step in and prevent him from doing this - not at all - that would be disastrous. I just think that if he really wants to improve muslim / American relations he would recognize that this is extremely divisive.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:43:48pm

re: #147 Cato the Elder

Well, if it's thirteen storeys of community center, and there's a mosque in there somewhere, it obviously equates to "them" taking over Hagia Sophia in 1453 and turning one of the greatest churches in the world into a mosque.

Yep. Former Burlington Coat Factory Building in Manhattan = Ναός τῆς Ἁγίας τοῦ Θεοῦ Σοφίας, the Church of the Holy Wisdom of God, in Constantinople.

Just ask Robert "Reconquista of Turkey" Spencer.

Or the al-Aqsa Mosque being used as a headquarters for the Knights Templar...another little historical detail that seems less wingnut friendly.

But I don't think Sarah knows where or what Hagia Sophia is.

200 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:44:07pm

re: #189 Irenicum

Tulsa time turns the clock back 100 years.

That's why the Russians never targeted Tulsa.. They figured (rightly so) that if they Nuked Tulsa nobody would even notice for at least a month.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:44:25pm

re: #153 avanti

But you'll be able to see the new towers from the top floor ! /

When and if they are ever built.

202 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:44:26pm

re: #192 Gus 802

Jihadist? Where? That is, got a link?

Muslim Brotherhood pals mean anything to you? Sharia?

Just Google it my friend.

203 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:44:32pm

re: #198 Racer X

If actually building a community center for Muslims is divisive, then it's not Muslims who are being divisive.

It's us.

204 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:45:04pm

re: #202 Naso Tang

Muslim Brotherhood pals mean anything to you? Sharia?

Just Google it my friend.

No, I thought you might have a direct link to back up your allegations.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:45:11pm

re: #161 CuriousLurker

When I first heard about this whole thing I wasn't sure it was a good idea, but seeing the foaming-at-the-mouth hatred & intolerance it has exposed has changed my mind.

Now I'm 150% in favor of it.

But...as a peaceful Muslim, don't you find it in your heart to consider the people of the heartland?

//

206 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:45:33pm

re: #202 Naso Tang

"Sharia" comes in many different forms and flavors, you know. Treating them all like they're the same lumps in radical Muslims with moderate Muslims.

207 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:45:53pm

For the record, I am still in favor of knowing where the cash money came from to buy the building.

Aside from that, let the project proceed, and may Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller and Sarah Palin break their teeth on the cornerstone.

208 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:46:14pm

Pamela Geller is just crowing like a harpy over Palin's tweets, by the way.

209 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:47:10pm

re: #208 Charles

Pamela Geller is just crowing like a harpy over Palin's tweets, by the way.


You did see Pam's harp about being a proud advisor for "Jews for Sarah Palin"

210 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:47:58pm

re: #206 Obdicut

"Sharia" comes in many different forms and flavors, you know. Treating them all like they're the same lumps in radical Muslims with moderate Muslims.

Was about to say that there is nothing wrong with Muslims living their lives in accordance with those tenets of Sharia that do not conflict with US law and jurisdiction.

But it is another loaded term, just mention it and people have visions of the the USA as a theocracy which would forbid homosexuality and homoseyual marriage, adultery and immodest behavior....

211 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:47:58pm

re: #209 Stanley Sea

You did see Pam's harp about being a proud advisor for "Jews for Sarah Palin"

Oops, the group is:

"Jewish American's for Sarah Palin"

212 Linden Arden  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:48:21pm

re: #179 Lidane

Of course they didn't. Bush was a Real American™-- white, male, straight, Christian, and Republican.

If Obama tried that, the same people who defended Bush for that would go on shooting sprees.

Yep - its the tribe mentality - the lowest common denominator in politics works most often.

When Sarah says "we need to get back to the Constitution" she is calling her tribe - although the airhead probably still can't name a Supreme Court case (other than Roe - thanks for that great question Katie).

213 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:48:29pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

Again: In terms of real estate sales 'cash' means 'not credit', and so it almost certainly wasn't suitcases of money as you had feared.

I'd like to know who's in on the funding as well, out of curiosity, but I'm leery of that argument just because so many making it have simply objected to all donations by foreign Muslims.

As many people have said, this is a Sufi place. It is the last place in the world that Al-Qaeda would want to have to do with. They'd want to blow it up.

214 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:48:33pm

re: #207 Cato the Elder

For the record, I am still in favor of knowing where the cash money came from to buy the building.

I got ten bucks says it originated under Saudi Arabia.

215 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:49:27pm

re: #208 Charles

Pamela Geller is just crowing like a harpy over Palin's tweets, by the way.

If the Nazi bands from Arizona were to come and mow down a mosque full of men, women, and children in Queens tomorrow with AK-47s, the Harpeia ululans americana would crow her vodka-soaked lungs out.

216 Irenicum  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:49:38pm

re: #214 Racer X

Not if it's Sufi. The Saudi's hate Sufism passionately.

217 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:50:19pm

re: #196 Charles

Sorry, but I have not seen any of the "jihadist" connections. I have read statements by the Imam, however, in which he very clearly condemns jihadism.

Of course he does, but some of his associations don't. This is only to be expected is it not?

Anyway, there are pages of references to him on a simple search, including his quotes. Some are obviously those with a counter agenda, others not, yet the facts match.

I'm sorry I brought this up.

218 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:50:35pm

re: #214 Racer X

I got ten bucks says it originated under Saudi Arabia.

Well then, fight to close down Fox News. (and millions of other things of course)

Freedom of the press is stronger than freedom of religion?

It's selective bias, plain and simple.

219 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:50:59pm

re: #214 Racer X

I got ten bucks says it originated under Saudi Arabia.

Uh oh. We better let Lockheed-Martin know about this. I think they're also taking Saudi money as is Boeing. ;)

220 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:51:04pm

bbl

221 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:51:49pm

re: #214 Racer X

I got ten bucks says it originated under Saudi Arabia.

All of it? I'll take that bet.

Why is everyone suddenly so concerned about money from Saudi Arabia?

A) They're our ally. Officially and all.

B) They invest in tons of US corporations with a lot more influence and reach than this place-- like Fox News. To the tune of millions upon millions, if not billions.

C) They buy tons of our stuff, too. Military equipment and all. Isn't that more of a concern?

I don't get it. This is not a place Wahabists want. This is the opposite of what the Wahabists want.

222 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:52:06pm

personally I don't give a damn about Geller or Palin, they are simply whoring around making noise, and all the attention they get will only strengthen their position with more and more potato heads...fuck them....the mosque has to be built, unless some extraordinary circumstance prevents or delays it...it must be built because it's the law

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:52:11pm

re: #214 Racer X

I got ten bucks says it originated under Saudi Arabia.

I suspect you're right for at least part of it, but a lot of money comes from Saudi for this sort of thing, and not all of it finds its way into the hands of people who are on their political wavelength.

224 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:52:40pm

re: #219 Gus 802

Uh oh. We better let Lockheed-Martin know about this. I think they're also taking Saudi money as is Boeing. ;)

Everybody takes their money.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:52:50pm

re: #215 Cato the Elder

If the Nazi bands from Arizona were to come and mow down a mosque full of men, women, and children in Queens tomorrow with AK-47s, the Harpeia ululans americana would crow her vodka-soaked lungs out.

She's go with Ploome's excuse for Baruch Goldstein. There was a secret plot, and they just had to act immediately.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:53:15pm

re: #216 Irenicum

Not if it's Sufi. The Saudi's hate Sufism passionately.

The Sufis are the Chassids of Islam.

227 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:53:35pm

re: #221 Obdicut


I don't get it. This is not a place Wahabists want. This is the opposite of what the Wahabists want.

Wahabi wannabees?

228 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:53:49pm

re: #221 Obdicut

All of it? I'll take that bet.

Why is everyone suddenly so concerned about money from Saudi Arabia?

A) They're our ally. Officially and all.

B) They invest in tons of US corporations with a lot more influence and reach than this place-- like Fox News. To the tune of millions upon millions, if not billions.

C) They buy tons of our stuff, too. Military equipment and all. Isn't that more of a concern?

I don't get it. This is not a place Wahabists want. This is the opposite of what the Wahabists want.

none of that matters

229 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:55:11pm

re: #129 Lidane

Also, how is a community center anything like a mosque again?


Probably the same way that a building blocks away is now considered "ground zero".......as in not like either of those things at all.

Some of these things are not like the other
Some of these things just doesn't belong

230 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:55:17pm

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.

231 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:55:37pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

This is all making me really nostalgic for when I was pointing out the terrible human rights record of Saudi Arabia way back before 9/11, and those on the right wing were defending them and telling me I needed to learn realpolitik, that they were necessary allies.

They still are, apparently, despite the fact that the hijackers came from there, despite the fact they fund disgusting antisemitic propaganda.

Because of oil. That is why. That is the one and only reason.

232 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:56:40pm

re: #230 Racer X

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.


Wouldn't it be great if we were in a position to put some sort of diplomatic or economic presssure on Saudi Arabia to reform its politics and society?

But what can we do except to refuse to buy their oil and sell them our military technology?

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:57:05pm

re: #230 Racer X

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.

The Saudis' intentions are pretty simple. They want the House of Saud to stay in power, and the US to back them up when they need it.

They are a theocracy, and they suck, and that's the long and the short of it. But they are the theocracy we've decided to back. Meh.

234 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:57:06pm

re: #230 Racer X

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.

Me too. So you might want to write your congresscritters telling them that we should break our alliance with them and stop letting them invest in US corporations.

I'm sure that'll go well.

235 zora  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:57:15pm

re: #210 ralphieboy

Was about to say that there is nothing wrong with Muslims living their lives in accordance with those tenets of Sharia that do not conflict with US law and jurisdiction.

But it is another loaded term, just mention it and people have visions of the the USA as a theocracy which would forbid homosexuality and homoseyual marriage, adultery and immodest behavior...

this is exactly what sarah palin and the dominionists want. but not because the muslims say so. because the bible says so.
sharia is scary but a theocracy based on the bible is just what jesus would do./

236 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:57:31pm

Oh right, the Imam's father was a CONTEMPORARY of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. OMG,that means he was Egyptian living in Egypt and was well known at the same time as Hassan al-Banna—surely he and his son must be members!1!!11!!

I know where people are getting that info from: Pajamas Media, DiscoverTheNetworks, etc. Not partisan outlets at all, no.

237 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:57:59pm

re: #231 Obdicut

This is all making me really nostalgic for when I was pointing out the terrible human rights record of Saudi Arabia way back before 9/11, and those on the right wing were defending them and telling me I needed to learn realpolitik, that they were necessary allies.

They still are, apparently, despite the fact that the hijackers came from there, despite the fact they fund disgusting antisemitic propaganda.

Because of oil. That is why. That is the one and only reason.

I remember initial reports of the 9/11 attackers as "men with Saudi passports" as if they were attempting to mitigate the association between the two

238 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:59:24pm

re: #231 Obdicut

Because of oil. That is why. That is the one and only reason.

Reason #2,, the safety of Israel

What I mean is, if there were not a drop of oil in all of SA we would still want them as "allies" as one more player in the region that does not want/have/need the destruction of the Jewish state as their goal

239 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 12:59:47pm

re: #235 zora

this is exactly what sarah palin and the dominionists want. but not because the muslims say so. because the bible says so.
sharia is scary but a theocracy based on the bible is just what jesus would do./


which is why I phrased it that way...Adultery would still be forbidden, but only those without sin would be allowed to cast the first stone. And i am sure they would arranbe to have absolution dispensers set up near the stoning sites...

240 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:00:45pm

Crazy Pam is also bleating about the EDL being victimized again.
Six injured and 20 arrested during English Defence League protest in Dudley

A 16 YEAR-old girl suffered a broken leg as six people were knocked over “like skittles” by a car fleeing far-right protesters in the Black Country.

Cops said the driver of the car had come forward after ploughing through a group of English Defence League (EDL) supporters in Dudley yesterday afternoon.

The six, aged between 16 and 42, were hit at the junction of King Street and High Street at 4pm as cops attempted to stamp out disorder following a protest against plans for a mosque in the town.

A eye-witness said EDL supporters had surrounded the car and may have thrown stones, or cans of beer, at it.

Asking not to be named, he said: “The driver must have panicked and put his foot down. They were thrown up into the air like skittles.

“It looked like he was trying to get away. He’d stopped at the traffic lights and then they were all around the car.

“I could hear bangs but I didn’t know if they were punching the car or throwing stones, or cans, at it.”

I think it's a farily safe assumption that the EDL attacked the car because the driver looked Asian. They've done it before in the past.

241 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:01:38pm

re: #234 Obdicut

Me too. So you might want to write your congresscritters telling them that we should break our alliance with them and stop letting them invest in US corporations.

I'm sure that'll go well.

Why the hell would I want to do that?

242 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:01:53pm

re: #230 Racer X

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.

Wouldn't it be fine if we modeled our religious freedoms on those in Saudi Arabia?

I swear, it would be such a paradise here. And finally, that part in the Constitution that says we are a Christian nation would emerge from the invisible ink it's written in and take center stage once again.

It comes right after the bit about coloreds not being supposed to own flat-screen teevees.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:02:22pm

re: #231 Obdicut

This is all making me really nostalgic for when I was pointing out the terrible human rights record of Saudi Arabia way back before 9/11, and those on the right wing were defending them and telling me I needed to learn realpolitik, that they were necessary allies.

Yep. I was also being told that the women's rights situation in Afghanistan was just the way life was in that part of the world, and not the responsibility of the U.S.

244 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:02:48pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam is also bleating about the EDL being victimized again.
Six injured and 20 arrested during English Defence League protest in Dudley

I think it's a farily safe assumption that the EDL attacked the car because the driver looked Asian. They've done it before in the past.

You know if my car was every surrounded by crazy people yelling at me, banging on it and throwing rocks I might be tempted to plow on though too.

245 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:03:04pm

re: #238 sattv4u2

Meh. Saudi Arabia puts out filthy tons of antisemitic propaganda, which definitely results in attacks on Jews. They're hardly innocent on Israel. They don't have diplomatic relations with Israel. They participate in the boycott. They want Jerusalem divided. They rejected the Camp David accords.

They're not at all pro-Israel, and they want an eternal prolonging of the conflict with Israel. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:03:34pm

re: #235 zora

this is exactly what sarah palin and the dominionists want. but not because the muslims say so. because the bible says so.
sharia is scary but a theocracy based on the bible is just what jesus would do./

Speaking of homosexuality and early Christianity, anyone here ever hear of Sts. Sergius and Bacchus? I just learned about them, and am, for some reason, sort of captivated.

247 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #241 Racer X

Why the hell would I want to do that?

So that you didn't have to be concerned about their intentions.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:11pm

re: #236 CuriousLurker

Oh right, the Imam's father was a CONTEMPORARY of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. OMG,that means he was Egyptian living in Egypt and was well known at the same time as Hassan al-Banna—surely he and his son must be members!1!!11!!

I know where people are getting that info from: Pajamas Media, DiscoverTheNetworks, etc. Not partisan outlets at all, no.

Is this anything like when I travel in Ireland, and when people hear I'm from California, they ask if I know their favorite movie star?

249 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:12pm

re: #244 webevintage

You know if my car was every surrounded by crazy people yelling at me, banging on it and throwing rocks I might be tempted to plow on though too.

You would be within your legal and moral rights to do so.

250 zora  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:30pm

re: #239 ralphieboy

which is why I phrased it that way...Adultery would still be forbidden, but only those without sin would be allowed to cast the first stone. And i am sure they would arranbe to have absolution dispensers set up near the stoning sites...

you have confused them (dominionists) with christians that believe in love and forgiveness. some of these christians supported the executions of gays in uganda and other african countries. stoning adulterers would be easy peasy. female adulterers that is.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:47pm

re: #238 sattv4u2


Because of oil. That is why. That is the one and only reason.

Reason #2,, the safety of Israel

What I mean is, if there were not a drop of oil in all of SA we would still want them as "allies" as one more player in the region that does not want/have/need the destruction of the Jewish state as their goal

I wouldn't be so sure the Saudis don't have that as a goal...someday...

252 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:47pm

re: #241 Racer X

Why the hell would I want to do that?

I'm confused... I thought you didn't want the community center built because of Saudi money being used to build it and that was a bad thing. But Saudi money used invested in US corporations is... what? A good thing?

253 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:04:58pm

Last report I saw was the pressure is rising a bit in the capped well...
Great news!

254 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:05:13pm

re: #245 Obdicut

They're hardly innocent on Israel.

I never stated they are!

What I clearly did state is (unlike, say Iran) they are notopenly calling for Israels destruction so there's another reason besides oil (as you stated is the only one) to keep them as "allies"

255 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:05:17pm

re: #236 CuriousLurker

Oh right, the Imam's father was a CONTEMPORARY of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. OMG,that means he was Egyptian living in Egypt and was well known at the same time as Hassan al-Banna—surely he and his son must be members!1!!11!!

I know where people are getting that info from: Pajamas Media, DiscoverTheNetworks, etc. Not partisan outlets at all, no.

Hi CL - can you explain the 'Sufi' denomination for us? I was under the impression that Sufism was a religious cult with its own rituals and belief system - and not particularly well-regarded by mainstream Islam. Are these the same people behind the Cordoba Center? Somehow, it seems improbable to me. Your input will be appreciated!

256 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:06:15pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Is this anything like when I travel in Ireland, and when people hear I'm from California, they ask if I know their favorite movie star?

LOL, it's exactly like that.

257 zora  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:06:42pm

have a good day, y'all. going to pick up my kids after 1 month with my parents.

258 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:07:35pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't be so sure the Saudis don't have that as a goal...someday...

Which goes to my point

IF our only tie to them was oil and there was no oil they could go rogue

For the safety of Israel, we should keep them as allies, albeit tenuous ones

259 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:08:02pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

They're hardly innocent on Israel.

I never stated they are!

What I clearly did state is (unlike, say Iran) they are notopenly calling for Israels destruction so there's another reason besides oil (as you stated is the only one) to keep them as "allies"

That's not a reason to have them as allies. As I said, they promote harm to Israel. They fund terrorism, propaganda against Israel. They have previously militarily attacked Israel. They denounce Israel all the time.

You're setting the bar for who we should be allies with very low.

260 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:09:02pm

Sufi dance:

261 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:09:16pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

You would be within your legal and moral rights to do so.

I flee whether it was legal or not....I value my skin more than some legal debate

262 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:09:18pm

re: #259 Obdicut

That's not a reason to have them as allies. As I said, they promote harm to Israel. They fund terrorism, propaganda against Israel. They have previously militarily attacked Israel. They denounce Israel all the time.

You're setting the bar for who we should be allies with very low.

No, I'm setting the bar for keeping Israel safe!

Where would you like to have it?

263 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:09:29pm

re: #247 Obdicut

So that you didn't have to be concerned about their intentions.

#1. I don't want us to break our alliance with SA. We benefit.
#2. I'm OK with taking their money.

America is the greatest country in the world bar none. I do not want to model ourselves after anyone else. I just have the opinion that if other states are funding projects here, the public should know. And I really don't know if they are behind this project or not. Do you know who is funding this project?

264 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:09:57pm

re: #255 ryannon

Sufi-ism is not a cult. It's the more mystical side of Islam. I'd call them the more zen-buddhist influenced side of Islam, personally.

They don't have any common practices. There's a lot of different kinds of Sufis.

265 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:10:34pm

re: #217 Naso Tang

Of course he does, but some of his associations don't. This is only to be expected is it not?

Anyway, there are pages of references to him on a simple search, including his quotes. Some are obviously those with a counter agenda, others not, yet the facts match.

I'm sorry I brought this up.

The main accusation against Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is that he's a member of a group that donated money to the Free Gaza group that tried to run Israel's blockade. This is an extremely weak "link." Is every member of a group responsible for the donations made by the group? If so, we're all as radical as the Imam, since one of the groups that donates millions of dollars to the Palestinians on a regular basis is the US government.

266 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:10:37pm

re: #252 allegro

I'm confused... I thought you didn't want the community center built because of Saudi money being used to build it and that was a bad thing. But Saudi money used invested in US corporations is... what? A good thing?

Yes.

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:10:42pm

re: #258 sattv4u2

Which goes to my point

IF our only tie to them was oil and there was no oil they could go rogue

For the safety of Israel, we should keep them as allies, albeit tenuous ones

Ehhhh....

268 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:10:47pm

re: #262 sattv4u2

No, I'm setting the bar for keeping Israel safe!

Where would you like to have it?

How does Saudi Arabia's creation and distribution of virulently anti-semitic literature, TV shows, radio programs, etc. help keep Israel safe, exactly?

How does their refusal to acknowledge the validity of Israel as a nation keep Israel safe?

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:11:57pm

re: #266 Racer X

Yes.

I'll tell you honestly, it scares me more to know that Saudi princes own big chunks of major news networks than to know that they paid for a community center where little kids can go swimming after school.

270 Racer X  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:12:32pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll tell you honestly, it scares me more to know that Saudi princes own big chunks of major news networks than to know that they paid for a community center where little kids can go swimming after school.

Agreed.

271 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:13:11pm

re: #264 Obdicut

Sufi-ism is not a cult. It's the more mystical side of Islam. I'd call them the more zen-buddhist influenced side of Islam, personally.

They don't have any common practices. There's a lot of different kinds of Sufis.

So these are the people behind the Cordorba Center?

272 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:13:15pm

re: #268 Obdicut

How does Saudi Arabia's creation and distribution of virulently anti-semitic literature, TV shows, radio programs, etc. help keep Israel safe, exactly?

How does their refusal to acknowledge the validity of Israel as a nation keep Israel safe?

How does not keeping them as allies (again, hypothetically that there's no more oil there) not?

YOU'RE premise was that the only reason for the alliance is oil.

Mine states that theres a benefit beyond that

273 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:15:23pm

Residents of Temecula California are objecting to a mosque to be built there too. Is 3000 miles too close? No, it's all about too many Muslims and alleged sleeper cells.

274 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:15:56pm

More Sufi dance and music:

275 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:16:01pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll tell you honestly, it scares me more to know that Saudi princes own big chunks of major news networks than to know that they paid for a community center where little kids can go swimming after school.

and endowing our universities with large cash awards...somebody should look that up

276 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:16:05pm

re: #273 Rightwingconspirator

Residents of Temecula California are objecting to a mosque to be built there too. Is 3000 miles too close? No, it's all about too many Muslims and alleged sleeper cells.

=)

277 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:16:33pm

re: #273 Rightwingconspirator

Residents of Temecula California are objecting to a mosque to be built there too. Is 3000 miles too close? No, it's all about too many Muslims and alleged sleeper cells.

Too damn close to me, these bigots are. I may have to make a quick road trip.

278 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:16:41pm

re: #276 Gus 802

Whoops sorry!

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:17:15pm

re: #273 Rightwingconspirator

Residents of Temecula California are objecting to a mosque to be built there too. Is 3000 miles too close? No, it's all about too many Muslims and alleged sleeper cells.

I would laugh at the idea of sleeper cells in Temecula, but they did uncover one in Lodi some years ago, so, I guess you never know...

280 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:17:57pm

re: #271 ryannon

So these are the people behind the Cordorba Center?

Well, they're Sufis, yes. I mean, Sufi-ism can be more ecumenical, so it might not define it totally. They're also kind of the Franciscans of the Muslim world.

It's like saying they're Lutherans-- there's a lot of variation in Lutheranism.

281 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:18:04pm

re: #278 Rightwingconspirator

Whoops sorry!

It's OK. I always worry I might do the same thing. Yeah, it does prove that this anti-Mosque mentality is spreading across the land. There's also two other cases I mentioned upthread.

282 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:18:39pm

re: #273 Rightwingconspirator

Residents of Temecula California are objecting to a mosque to be built there too. Is 3000 miles too close? No, it's all about too many Muslims and alleged sleeper cells.

But these are people who are already living and worshiping in the area right?

283 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:18:55pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

How does not keeping them as allies (again, hypothetically that there's no more oil there) not?

YOU'RE premise was that the only reason for the alliance is oil.

Mine states that theres a benefit beyond that

And I'm saying that Saudi Arabia does far more harm to Israel than it does good, so your 'benefit' is fictional.

284 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:18:58pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

I would laugh at the idea of sleeper cells in Temecula, but they did uncover one in Lodi some years ago, so, I guess you never know...

Hell ,, ,if I were stuck in Lodi all I'd wanna do is sleep also!!!

//

285 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:19:35pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

I don't care where "peaceful Muslims" build their mosques, subject to normal building codes.

However I do have reservations about the honesty of some Muslims, and a simple search for the name of the Imam of this new mosque reveals some highly questionable, if not utterly jihadist, opinions and connections that he has; and presumably also those paying for this facility.

I recognize that in this climate, what with Palin tweets etc, it wouldn't take but a poorly constructed post or two for LGF to be lumped in with all those being correctly criticized here; but I do yearn sometimes for something juicy about CAIR at least.

CAIR is full of Salafists and financed out of The Magic Kingdom. That Imam and his followers are Sufis.

Big difference!

286 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:20:37pm

re: #281 Gus 802

I have to be more careful. I'll be browsing news sources see something and just hit the marklet in my LGF toolbar I made. I really should watch at least the featured pages more carefully.

287 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:20:53pm

Of course I would not want a large church of any kind built near me so....
But that would be because of the increase in annoying traffic and folks knocking on my doors asking if I know Jesus.

288 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:21:21pm

Here's the skinny on Sufism from Wikipedia. It's pretty much as I had previously learned, but I have trouble linking this up with the people behind the Cordoba Center.

289 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:21:40pm

Refudiate @Urban Dictionary

When Sarah Palin decides regular English words aren't good enough, she'll just go ahead and make a new one. Here, Refudiate bridges the gap between "refuse" and "repudiate", to mean exactly what she wants it to mean.

"The President and his wife ... they can refudiate what this group (the NAACP) is saying." - Sarah Palin, on F-F-Fox News

refudiate refuse sarah palin fox news portmanteau

290 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:21:58pm

re: #288 ryannon

Here's the skinny on Sufism from Wikipedia. It's pretty much as I had previously learned, but I have trouble linking this up with the people behind the Cordoba Center.

Forgot the link:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

291 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:22:08pm

re: #287 webevintage

Of course I would not want a large church of any kind built near me so...
But that would be because of the increase in annoying traffic and folks knocking on my doors asking if I know Jesus.

and that probably means I'm an annoying hypocrite because I don't care about the folks who live close to the church I go to.

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #287 webevintage

Of course I would not want a large church of any kind built near me so...
But that would be because of the increase in annoying traffic and folks knocking on my doors asking if I know Jesus.

I like the Catholic kids who used to come to the door. They'd ask if anyone in the house was a baptized Catholic, and if you said no, they went away.

Very nice!

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:22:45pm

re: #291 webevintage

and that probably means I'm an annoying hypocrite because I don't care about the folks who live close to the church I go to.

But do you ever knock on their doors and ask about their relationship with Jesus?

294 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:22:52pm

re: #283 Obdicut

And I'm saying that Saudi Arabia does far more harm to Israel than it does good, so your 'benefit' is fictional.


I think immeasurable would be more accurate. No quantitative way to know the exact benefit that the alliance with the USA has on them . Fictional would indicate that there is ZERO benefit. If you think that it is zero, so be it

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:24:29pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

I think immeasurable would be more accurate. No quantitative way to know the exact benefit that the alliance with the USA has on them . Fictional would indicate that there is ZERO benefit. If you think that it is zero, so be it

No one makes a deal with the devil for zero benefit.

But the benefit doesn't make the devil any less a devil.

296 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:24:36pm

Sunday reading: Refudiate - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

See the first two links there which lead to LGF.

297 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:24:58pm

re: #282 webevintage

But these are people who are already living and worshiping in the area right?

Yep, they've owned the land since 2000. Just finally have the $ to build.

re: #287 webevintage

Of course I would not want a large church of any kind built near me so...
But that would be because of the increase in annoying traffic and folks knocking on my doors asking if I know Jesus.

Oh Temecula is already FULL of those places. More to come I'm sure, just so it's not the Muslims.

298 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:25:06pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

so by what you're saying, if you do -2 in harm but +1 in benefit, it still counts as a benefit?

299 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:25:28pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

I think immeasurable would be more accurate. No quantitative way to know the exact benefit that the alliance with the USA has on them . Fictional would indicate that there is ZERO benefit. If you think that it is zero, so be it

the KSA is a cancer...it's almost criminal we still buy their oil, funny that, because their world view is much longer than ours...we are their bitch, I hate it

300 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:02pm

re: #297 Stanley Sea

Oh Temecula is already FULL of those places. More to come I'm sure, just so it's not the Muslims.

*cough*

301 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:10pm

re: #298 windsagio

so by what you're saying, if you do -2 in harm but +1 in benefit, it still counts as a benefit?

No, but it sure counts a hell of a lot more than -10 in harm

(Hello, Iran ,,,, Heya Syria !!)

302 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:14pm

re: #255 ryannon

Hi CL - can you explain the 'Sufi' denomination for us? I was under the impression that Sufism was a religious cult with its own rituals and belief system - and not particularly well-regarded by mainstream Islam. Are these the same people behind the Cordoba Center? Somehow, it seems improbable to me. Your input will be appreciated!

As SFZ said, Sufis are similar to the Chassids. Sufism has always existed as the inner, mystical, spiritual aspect of Islam. The notion of Sufis being somehow outside of Islam is a fairly recent idea that comes directly from the Wahhabi/Salafi camp's influence.

They deem the Sufis a "cult', or to put it in Islamic terms, something bida'h (a innovation, mostly used in the negative sense). As you can see, they've been quite successful in redefining what Islam is and isn't, even in the West.

The whole Wahhabi/Salafi philosophy has a long, complicated history that has roots going way back to the early days of Islam when groups split off form the mainstream and were roundly condemned for it.

It seems that the Sufis are starting to push back now.

303 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:26pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

No one makes a deal with the devil for zero benefit.

But the benefit doesn't make the devil any less a devil.

Robert Johnson did...and he was dead a few short years later

304 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:36pm

re: #274 ryannon

Thank you for posting that. Enjoying it muchly!

305 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:26:41pm

re: #301 sattv4u2

I'm not sure that you can make the case that Syria is actually more dangerous than SA.

306 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:27:26pm

re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist

But do you ever knock on their doors and ask about their relationship with Jesus?

Never.
I just assume they are all going to hell if they are not Catholic and I don't see a Mary stature in the yard.

Around here if I told the people selling Jesus that we are Catholic they just start yammering about how "them Catholics don't read the bible and the Pope is the anti-Christ and by the way do you have a personal relationship with Jesus?".

Hence the sign on my door:
NO SOLICITORS
Please Go Away If You are selling something….even Jesus.
No salesmen, Baptists, Evangelicals, Jehovah Witnesses.
You folks annoy me and make my dogs bark.
UPS, friends and family?
You guys are always welcome at our house.
Thanks for coming by!

307 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:27:51pm

re: #305 windsagio

I'm not sure that you can make the case that Syria is actually more dangerous than SA.

Fine , strike Syria (cough cough hamas/hezbo cough cough)

308 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:27:58pm

re: #289 Gus 802

Refudiate @Urban Dictionary

Urban Dictionary says it's a mix of "refuse" and "repudiate" -- I disagree. I think it's "refute" and "repudiate." Notice that in her 2nd tweet she used "refute."

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:28:07pm

re: #303 albusteve

Robert Johnson did...and he was dead a few short years later

But did he get what he wanted?

310 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:28:57pm

re: #307 sattv4u2

I actually think SA is more dsangerous than Iran too really, but I wouldn't want to actually defend that point on LGF :p

311 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:29:00pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

No one makes a deal with the devil for zero benefit.

But the benefit doesn't make the devil any less a devil.

updinged ,, and I never said SA was less devilish ,, only that there IS a benefit

312 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:29:20pm

I see Bobby Jindals sand berms are washing away:
[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

Who knew?
/

313 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:30:50pm

Sorry for my slow responses; I'm having trouble keeping up today as I'm trying to do several things at once.

re: #271 ryannon

So these are the people behind the Cordorba Center?

Imam Rauf is well known within NYC Muslim community as having been the imam of a Sufi mosque in TriBeCa for 20+ years.

314 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:30:54pm

re: #312 webevintage

Its funny, because the scientists said that'd happen ;)

Where are all the "JINDAL IS DOING WHAT THE FEDS WON'T" People now?

315 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:31:12pm

re: #308 Charles

Urban Dictionary says it's a mix of "refuse" and "repudiate" -- I disagree. I think it's "refute" and "repudiate." Notice that in her 2nd tweet she used "refute."

Right. That was the first word that came to my mind when I heard say "refudiate": repudiate.

316 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:32:36pm

Will refusiate be next?

317 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:32:54pm

Wow, this LGF recount of the Palin twitter fiasco of bigotry has been re-tweeted 119 times!

318 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:33:18pm

re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist

But did he get what he wanted?

international fame...he was a very gifted musician, but he traded his life to the devil for it...or so the myth goes, but there is more to it....this happened in the Mississippi Delta in the late 20s...he was nobody and could barely play the guitar...he disappeared for a year and came back truly accomplished, more so than any normal person could possibly have done so it seems...he told his story and people believed him

319 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:33:20pm

#refudiate @Twitter

Hey, maybe we can create #TROT: Top Refudiators on Twitter. /

320 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:33:54pm

re: #282 webevintage

Of course. Frankly I would welcome the faithful more than many other construction projects I can think of.

321 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:33:54pm

re: #319 Gus 802

#refudiate @Twitter

Hey, maybe we can create #TROT: Top Refudiators on Twitter. /

or maybe not!

//

322 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:34:05pm

re: #314 windsagio

Its funny, because the scientists said that'd happen ;)

Where are all the "JINDAL IS DOING WHAT THE FEDS WON'T" People now?

It sucks for the people of LA, but yeah it also is one of those times you want to twist the screws a bit, point and allow scientists to say "told ya so".

323 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:34:20pm

re: #308 Charles

Urban Dictionary says it's a mix of "refuse" and "repudiate" -- I disagree. I think it's "refute" and "repudiate." Notice that in her 2nd tweet she used "refute."

The "Urban Dictionary" will sanction any "word" as long as it contributes to and hastens the downfall of literacy.

324 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:34:52pm

re: #323 Cato the Elder

The "Urban Dictionary" will sanction any "word" as long as it contributes to and hastens the downfall of literacy.

word up, bro!
/

325 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:35:22pm

re: #314 windsagio

Its funny, because the scientists said that'd happen ;)

Where are all the "JINDAL IS DOING WHAT THE FEDS WON'T" People now?

Hiding out in the same basement with the "so much snow this winter...global warming MUST be a hoax" people?

326 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:35:33pm

Random Notes:
I am having issues with my High Def Box..It keeps crashing..usually only when something good is on...
The Belkin N router died...I'm connected by wire at home...I'm pissed off at Belkin and their junk.. (OK I got the router for free but that's beside the point)
There are thunderstorms here in Indiana..Winston is hiding and I figure the power should go out any minute...
Hey...Where did the internet go? Dang it!

327 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:35:40pm

re: #323 Cato the Elder

re: #324 sattv4u2

word up, bro!
/

or more recent vinatge

"mos' def'"

328 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:36:41pm

re: #325 bratwurst

Speaking of that, weirdly cool summer here in PDX this year.

I for one am glad tho' :)

(and know it has nothing to do with AGW, we just gave SoCal all our heat)

329 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:37:41pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

Fictional would indicate that there is ZERO benefit. If you think that it is zero, so be it

No, I think it's less than zero. I think legitimizing Saudi Arabia is one of worst diplomatic mistakes of all time, not to mention morally indefensible.


By your logic, we should become allies with Iran, because, hey, it might have some immeasurable positive impact.

330 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:37:49pm

There's a pretty funny hash tag getting very active right now: #movieswithrefudiate

331 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:38:26pm

re: #328 windsagio

Speaking of that, weirdly cool summer here in PDX this year.

I for one am glad tho' :)

(and know it has nothing to do with AGW, we just gave SoCal all our heat)

El Niño

332 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:38:42pm

re: #328 windsagio

Speaking of that, weirdly cool summer here in PDX this year.

I for one am glad tho' :)

(and know it has nothing to do with AGW, we just gave SoCal all our heat)

Thank you very much, although it's probably 10 degrees cooler today. Not yesterday of course at the outdoor wedding reception I went to.

333 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:38:59pm

re: #331 Gus 802

Didn't know we had one this year, usually its all over the news.

Now I know!

334 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:39:16pm

re: #330 Charles

There's a pretty funny hash tag getting very active right now: #movieswithrefudiate

LOL

335 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:39:20pm

re: #238 sattv4u2


Because of oil. That is why. That is the one and only reason.

Reason #2,, the safety of Israel

What I mean is, if there were not a drop of oil in all of SA we would still want them as "allies" as one more player in the region that does not want/have/need the destruction of the Jewish state as their goal

They created the "Saudi Peace Initiative" (through the tool Tom Friedman) which will "recognize" the state of Israel only once they have agreed to their own destruction.

336 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:40:06pm

OMG!
Just a min ago:

SarahPalinUSA
"Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!

337 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:40:47pm

Oops. Summer Glau just called to say she's going to be a bit early for our monthly date. Gotta go. Priorities.

Here's hoping Sarah "Coulda Beena Porn Queen" Palin is three steps closer to being laughed off the face of the planet when I get back.

338 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:40:49pm

re: #333 windsagio

Didn't know we had one this year, usually its all over the news.

Now I know!

I think it came in around April? Now they're saying La Niña is coming in.

339 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:40:49pm

re: #335 Alouette

I can't prove it, but I think SA is one of the states in the region most interested in nailing (or at least scapegoating, which is admittedly different) Israel.

340 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:41:40pm

re: #336 webevintage

It hurts me because she's kinda right. Problem is you just can't make up words and use that excuse ;)

341 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:41:54pm

re: #336 webevintage

Seriously? No way.

She's saying her fucking up words is the same thing as Shakespeare coining them.

What a zyglommity fershudnick.

342 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:42:16pm

re: #329 Obdicut

No, I think it's less than zero. I think legitimizing Saudi Arabia is one of worst diplomatic mistakes of all time, not to mention morally indefensible.

By your logic, we should become allies with Iran, because, hey, it might have some immeasurable positive impact.

It's not ?my logic"

Every administration since the fall of the Shah has been trying to get Iran to
A) come to the table
for
B) "normal" diplomatic ties
to
C) secure the region (read ,,, protect Israel)

343 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:42:29pm

re: #336 webevintage

OMG!
Just a min ago:

SarahPalinUSA
"Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!

It's been bugging her all day.

344 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:42:55pm

re: #342 sattv4u2

I wonder why Iran might be unwilling to negotiate with the US or Britain "After the Shah"...

345 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:43:10pm

re: #341 Obdicut

Seriously? No way.

She's saying her fucking up words is the same thing as Shakespeare coining them.

yes.
yes she is.
at least until her handlers (need to make up a better word for that) erase her tweet.

346 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:43:23pm

re: #343 Stanley Sea

I like how she can't back down, no matter what, but has to come out swinging.

There should be a name for that.

347 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:43:25pm

we just hit 101deg in ABQ again...two and a half months of this blazing heat....it's relentless

348 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:43:41pm

re: #265 Charles

The main accusation against Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is that he's a member of a group that donated money to the Free Gaza group that tried to run Israel's blockade. This is an extremely weak "link." Is every member of a group responsible for the donations made by the group? If so, we're all as radical as the Imam, since one of the groups that donates millions of dollars to the Palestinians on a regular basis is the US government.

Here's one reference that strikes me as classic apologist for terrorism, straight out of the Muslim Brotherhood playbook.

West must act to end jihad: Imam
By Frank Walker
March 21, 2004 - 1:52AM
The Sun-Herald
Print this article
Email to a friend

The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end, says an Islamic cleric invited to Sydney by Premier Bob Carr.

New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who impressed Mr Carr at an international conference last year, arrives in Sydney today for two weeks of meetings and public talks.

Speaking from his New York mosque, Imam Feisal said the West had to understand the terrorists' point of view.

In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Imam Feisal said the bombing in Madrid had made his message more urgent. He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance, said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an "America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world.

His major talks will be at noon on April 1 at St Mary's Cathedral with Cardinal George Pell and Mr Carr, and a public lecture at 6pm at the Wesley Centre in Pitt Street.

349 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:44:06pm

re: #347 albusteve

Thats why I could never live in the desert SW, beautiful as it is. I think I'd wilt.

350 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:45:50pm

re: #347 albusteve

we just hit 101deg in ABQ again...two and a half months of this blazing heat...it's relentless

but it's a "dry" heat... so quitchyabitchin!
/

351 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:45:51pm

Sarah's Twitter page:
[Link: twitter.com...]

352 freetoken  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:46:26pm

re: #349 windsagio

I have found it much easier to live in the desert than live where it is both hot and humid, such as DC.

353 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:46:27pm
354 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:46:44pm

re: #349 windsagio

Thats why I could never live in the desert SW, beautiful as it is. I think I'd wilt.

AGW?...it's ten degrees above average....all summer so far, and this is high desert, 5280ft, not the furnace like down in Phoenix

355 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:46:53pm

re: #352 freetoken

Oh believe me couldn't live there either. The PNW spoils the hell out of you ;)

356 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:47:08pm

re: #350 sattv4u2

but it's a "dry" heat... so quitchyabitchin!
/

didn't take long

357 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:47:35pm

re: #347 albusteve

re: #350 sattv4u2

but it's a "dry" heat... so quitchyabitchin!
/

seriously,, I was on the South Carolina coast all last week

95-100 degrees each day WITH 90% humidity

358 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:47:38pm

re: #354 albusteve

AGW What?

101 for 2 months is still too damn hot for me. Its nice living in a temperate maritime climate.

359 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:47:46pm

re: #337 Cato the Elder

Oops. Summer Glau just called to say she's going to be a bit early for our monthly date. Gotta go. Priorities.

Here's hoping Sarah "Coulda Beena Porn Queen" Palin is three steps closer to being laughed off the face of the planet when I get back.


It pisses me off that when ever Sarah is the topic here that you have to be so over the top of your criticism of her..and so ugly..I feel like I almost have to defend her in public..I don't like that..STOP MAKING THIS SO PERSONAL CATO.
Let's stick to policy issues..Effen ef ef...

360 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:48:08pm

Personally, I'd be quite happy having a Sufi center next to me - I see nothing not to like and I'd be sure to want to learn more. But that's just me and that's as far as it goes.

The debate around the Cordoba Center is just one more aspect of how divisive things have become every time you try to do do anything in the States these days: it immediately become a partisan free-for-all with everyone at everyone else's throats. I've seen enough of that to know that I don't want anything more to do with it. Let the lawyers battle it out to a chorus of shriekers on both sides. In a word, an ungodly mess.

361 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:48:12pm

re: #352 freetoken

I have found it much easier to live in the desert than live where it is both hot and humid, such as DC.

DC?...omg
no can do

362 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:49:12pm

Fuck you, Sarah.

363 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:49:44pm

re: #10 Cato the Elder

I used to have an aversion to bleeding hearts, until I met the bleeding heartlanders.

I don't mind bleeding hearts that much. It's better than having no heart at all, as so many of these wingnuts do.

364 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:50:00pm

re: #347 albusteve

we just hit 101deg in ABQ again...two and a half months of this blazing heat...it's relentless

We haven't 100 yet this year here, but our humidity is 20% higher than it was last summer. So our heat indexes are the same, around 105.

Miserable either way.

365 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:50:29pm

re: #348 Naso Tang

Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance, said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an "America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world.

I did not realize that this speech, which I distinctly remember as unbelievably offensive, came from Rauf.

A bit of rethinking may be in order here.

Thanks.

(And as for an "America Culpa" speech, I'll root for that right after we get an "Islam Culpa" one from the heirs of the people who raped India long before the Brits were an empire.)

366 Lidane  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:51:06pm

re: #336 webevintage

OMG!
Just a min ago:

SarahPalinUSA
"Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!

Sarah Palin. She's like Shakespeare, only without all that pesky structure and plot.

367 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:51:51pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

I did not realize that this speech, which I distinctly remember as unbelievably offensive, came from Rauf.

A bit of rethinking may be in order here.

Thanks.

(And as for an "America Culpa" speech, I'll root for that right after we get an "Islam Culpa" one from the heirs of the people who raped India long before the Brits were an empire.)

There's more out there, but for some reason people seem to have trouble with Google, or don't care.

368 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:52:24pm

re: #348 Naso Tang

It was a defensive comment on his part. He was speaking in defense of Islam when he says "the Islamic method."

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

More to the point, compare "Islamic method" to the "Jihadist method." You also have to take into account that this was at the height of hostilities in 2004. The defensive part being that he is trying to say that it was not Islam that attacked the WTC.

369 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:52:33pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

you think a few 'wow we really fucked up's wouldn't be appropriate?

370 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:52:51pm

re: #364 austin_blue

We haven't 100 yet this year here, but our humidity is 20% higher than it was last summer. So our heat indexes are the same, around 105.

Miserable either way.

my back patio behind me faces west...it gets so hot back there the handle on the slider glows...I just pray for monsoon clouds, or wait til the sun goes below the mesa

371 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:53:22pm

re: #367 Naso Tang

There's more out there, but for some reason people seem to have trouble with Google, or don't care.

Oh I found you references already. Most of them are showing up at Jihad Watch, World Net Daily, and Atlas Shrugged.

372 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:53:50pm

re: #371 Gus 802

Oh snap, son!

373 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:54:12pm

re: #369 windsagio

you think a few 'wow we really fucked up's wouldn't be appropriate?

Not with regard to America and the Muslim world. The fuckups all happened before we bought a used fucking empire from the Brits.

374 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:54:33pm

I hate summer.
Except for tomatoes...


Maybe I would like summer if I lived on the ocean or someplace where the average temp was 85 during the day.

But really, I hate summer.

375 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:54:42pm

re: #372 windsagio

Oh snap, son!

Would be nice to hear the whole speech or statement. Otherwise, we're also looking at one very ripe cherry picked fruit.

376 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:54:42pm

Just to clarify: Generally speaking Sufis try to keep a low profile. When I say "Sufi mosque" I mean a mosque where members would go for the usual Friday prayers, to break their fast during Ramadan, etc. but with additional gatherings specifically dedicated to Sufi exercises led by an experienced teacher. As a matter of fact, the teacher (sheikh or in this case sheikha) is actually a woman.

377 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:54:58pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

well except for that whole Iran thing, we really screwed the pooch bad on that one.

I'm gonna presume that arming the Taliban was a good idea for the sake of peace ;)

378 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:10pm

re: #368 Gus 802

It was a defensive comment on his part. He was speaking in defense of Islam when he says "the Islamic method."

More to the point, compare "Islamic method" to the "Jihadist method." You also have to take into account that this was at the height of hostilities in 2004. The defensive part being that he is trying to say that it was not Islam that attacked the WTC.

/Is it hard to bend over that far?

379 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:31pm

re: #375 Gus 802

Seems to be the way, in general.

380 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:39pm

re: #377 windsagio

well except for that whole Iran thing, we really screwed the pooch bad on that one.

I'm gonna presume that arming the Taliban was a good idea for the sake of peace ;)

Yeah, it was such a bad idea to let them take our people hostage.

381 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:46pm

re: #378 Naso Tang

/Is it hard to bend over that far?

Nice sexual reference. Classy.

382 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:47pm

re: #371 Gus 802

Oh I found you references already. Most of them are showing up at Jihad Watch, World Net Daily, and Atlas Shrugged.

Exactly, I've googled this before myself.

383 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:55:52pm

re: #374 webevintage

I hate summer.
Except for tomatoes...

Maybe I would like summer if I lived on the ocean or someplace where the average temp was 85 during the day.

But really, I hate summer.

if this keeps up indefinitely, I'll be seeking a change in latitude

384 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:56:06pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

WTF?

...

WTF?

385 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:56:16pm

re: #376 CuriousLurker

Just to clarify: Generally speaking Sufis try to keep a low profile. When I say "Sufi mosque" I mean a mosque where members would go for the usual Friday prayers, to break their fast during Ramadan, etc. but with additional gatherings specifically dedicated to Sufi exercises led by an experienced teacher. As a matter of fact, the teacher (sheikh or in this case sheikha) is actually a woman.

386 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:56:28pm

Windsagio: living proof that "liberal" and "library" do not always coincide.

387 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:56:43pm

re: #381 Gus 802

Nice sexual reference. Classy.

Bend over backwards is a sexual reference? All these years and I never knew...

388 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:57:07pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Oh wait, I get it.

Try a few decades before that, something about overthrowing an elected government in what was one of the most liberal Islamic states in the world...

389 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:57:11pm

re: #377 windsagio

well except for that whole Iran thing, we really screwed the pooch bad on that one.

I'm gonna presume that arming the Taliban was a good idea for the sake of peace ;)

huh?....you blame the US for events in Iran in 1979?

390 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:57:22pm
391 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:57:29pm

Sarah's miffed at her critics:

"Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!

392 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:57:59pm

re: #384 windsagio

WTF?

...

WTF?


perhaps you missed it

That whole 444 days did go by fast!!!

{sigh}

393 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:58:14pm

re: #389 albusteve

Was more thinking about Overthrowing Mossadiq and putting the Shah in power really.

394 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:58:22pm

re: #391 Charles

Sarah's miffed at her critics:

it sucks to be the village idiot....

395 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:58:51pm

re: #387 Naso Tang

Bend over backwards is a sexual reference? All these years and I never knew...

OK, maybe I got confused. I get that way when people resort to childishness.

396 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:59:07pm

re: #386 Cato the Elder

Windsagio: living proof that "liberal" and "library" do not always coincide.

Hey Pal..Take your down ding of me and shove it where the sun don't shine.

397 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:59:16pm

re: #394 webevintage

it sucks to be the village idiot...

Just ask Windsagio.

398 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:59:34pm

re: #387 Naso Tang

you did'nt say 'backwards' :p

'bend over' without that means something very different ;)

399 djcelts  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:59:40pm

The latest tweet - "Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!
20 minutes ago via web
She is actually comparing herself to Shakespeare now, oh my.
You ma am, are no Shakespeare!

400 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:59:51pm

re: #396 HoosierHoops

Hey Pal..Take your down ding of me and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Bite me, hypocrite.

401 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:00:13pm

re: #391 Charles

Sarah's miffed at her critics:

Sarah Palin = Shakespeare? She's delubinal.

402 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:00:17pm

trying something different this time, see if it works ;)

403 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:00:28pm

re: #398 windsagio

you did'nt say 'backwards' :p

'bend over' without that means something very different ;)

Yeah, when it's associated with a bar of soap.

404 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:00:36pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

Bite me, hypocrite.

That's it. I'm buying you one of these:

Image: simma_down_now_hat-p148943482028890666qz14_400.jpg

405 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:01:02pm

But seriously Cato, will you admit that overthrowing Mossadiq was a terrible terrible mistake, not to mention deeply against our stated principles?

406 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:01:21pm

re: #371 Gus 802

Oh I found you references already. Most of them are showing up at Jihad Watch, World Net Daily, and Atlas Shrugged.

Do I presume you are implying that the first hits on your list made this stuff up? Of course they will do the same research. That doesn't change squat.

You can make all the excuses you want for offensive speeches, but I'm simple and just take people at their word, particularly when they are educated and prominent leaders of their community/religion.

407 freetoken  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:01:30pm

re: #399 djcelts

There is no hubris like Shakespearean hubris.

408 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:02:03pm

re: #406 Naso Tang

Do I presume you are implying that the first hits on your list made this stuff up? Of course they will do the same research. That doesn't change squat.

You can make all the excuses you want for offensive speeches, but I'm simple and just take people at their word, particularly when they are educated and prominent leaders of their community/religion.

You're quote is just that, a quote. That's not the speech. It's only one sentence.

409 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:02:39pm

re: #408 Gus 802

(hate to be this guy, but psst: "your"! also, "upding!")

410 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:02:42pm

re: #398 windsagio

you did'nt say 'backwards' :p

'bend over' without that means something very different ;)

Depends on one's mindset at the time.

411 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:03:07pm

re: #410 Naso Tang

or if you're in prison?

412 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:03:10pm

re: #409 windsagio

(hate to be this guy, but psst: "your"! also, "upding!")

Oops. Thanks.

413 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:03:17pm

re: #405 windsagio

But seriously Cato, will you admit that overthrowing Mossadiq was a terrible terrible mistake, not to mention deeply against our stated principles?

No.

We were fighting a cold war at the time. It was a real war, with real stakes.

Grow up.

414 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:03:28pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

Bite me, hypocrite.

Fuck you Pal...I don't agree with Sarah on just about any policy issue period..Yet you have called her every name in the book..Remember the whore routine? You go ugly and childish...
I'm done with you

415 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:04:12pm
416 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:04:53pm

Wow...lots of "fuck you-ing" today. Must be Sunday.

417 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:05:05pm

Sensors detect the USS Timeout ship on the starboard side!

418 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:05:18pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

I'm trying very hard to discuss this stuff with you without insults or snark (for once), how can we agree that overthrowing the Mossadiq government had terrible longterm consequences?

Also, how did it actually HELP us in the cold war to break them?

419 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:05:33pm

re: #415 Cato the Elder

Good.

And shove your prayer list up your ass.

There you go..

420 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:05:36pm

re: #408 Gus 802

You're quote is just that, a quote. That's not the speech. It's only one sentence.

If the sentence is complete and in context, does the fact that "it's only one sentence" make it any less impactful and/or deplorable?

And I'm not just talking about this one instance. If a member of the Neo Nazis was to speak in glowing terms about something and included just "one sentence" of hate, does the rest6 of the speech negate the hate?

421 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:05:45pm

I...wow....cato...

422 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:04pm

re: #416 darthstar

Wow...lots of "fuck you-ing" today. Must be Sunday.

The Lord's Day!

423 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:10pm

re: #376 CuriousLurker

Just to clarify: Generally speaking Sufis try to keep a low profile. When I say "Sufi mosque" I mean a mosque where members would go for the usual Friday prayers, to break their fast during Ramadan, etc. but with additional gatherings specifically dedicated to Sufi exercises led by an experienced teacher. As a matter of fact, the teacher (sheikh or in this case sheikha) is actually a woman.

But never mind all that. Let's keep ragging on Imam Rauf, and if he's ever said anything that we might deem offensive, then we can demand that the project be shut down. Right after we shut down all the Christian churches, foundations, and schools whose leaders say offensive things.

424 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:16pm

re: #408 Gus 802

You're quote is just that, a quote. That's not the speech. It's only one sentence.

I thought there was more than one, and I can't bend over backwards far enough to see how they can be invalidated.

Did you read the article in my #348?

425 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:34pm

Ebert responds:

Urgent to @SarahPalinUSA: Shakespeare would rather have died than "coin" the meaningless non-word "misunderestimate."

426 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:39pm

re: #415 Cato the Elder

Good.

And shove your prayer list up your ass.

I was right there with you until you decided to type more after "Good"!

427 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:06:54pm

re: #422 windsagio

PS: It always annoys me when people call Sunday the Sabbath. Just so wrong >>

428 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:07:20pm

re: #425 Stanley Sea

*Diet pepsi-spit*!

Thanks!

429 ryannon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:07:47pm

Meanwhile....

430 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:08:18pm

re: #420 sattv4u2

If the sentence is complete and in context, does the fact that "it's only one sentence" make it any less impactful and/or deplorable?

And I'm not just talking about this one instance. If a member of the Neo Nazis was to speak in glowing terms about something and included just "one sentence" of hate, does the rest6 of the speech negate the hate?

I already explained how I read it. He was speaking on behalf of Islam and not the terrorists. Many people have made reference to the bombings of WWII although perhaps with the application of the particular religion which in this case was Christianity.

431 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:04pm

re: #427 windsagio

PS: It always annoys me when people call Sunday the Sabbath. Just so wrong >>

what do you care what people call Sunday?...to me it means NFL football, nothing more...call it whatever you want

432 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:33pm

re: #425 Stanley Sea

Ebert responds:

"Alas, poor Yorick, I misunderestimated him, and now the Duke is all wee-wee'd up."

433 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:34pm

re: #371 Gus 802

Oh I found you references already. Most of them are showing up at Jihad Watch, World Net Daily, and Atlas Shrugged.

Here's another one!

Obama's Challenge to the Muslim World

He captured the attention of Muslims because, unlike most politicians, he was willing to critique both his own country and Muslims where they fell short of their ideals.

The question now is whether Muslim governments and warring factions can embrace the true meaning of Islam.

For each of the problems Obama cited -- American occupation in Iraq, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the spread of nuclear weapons, development of democracy, religious freedom, women's rights and economic development -- Islam presents a solution.

Islam denounces suicide of any sort, especially suicide bombings that kill innocents. Even in a defensive war sanctioned by Islamic law, suicide is expressly forbidden.

As Obama pointed out, the Holy Quran says that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind. Adherence to Islam would end indiscriminate firing of missiles from Gaza into Israel that kill innocents.

Yup, he's an Israel and America-hating jihadist, all right...

///

434 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:44pm

Newsflash! Muslims have a tendency to be defensive of Islam. Especially if they're being confronted with a barrage of "Islam will cause the end of mankind" rhetoric.

435 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:58pm

re: #348 Naso Tang

Well, I'd like to see the full speech instead of quotes that are pulled out to make him appear radical.

Here's a pretty large collection of articles and interviews featuring Imam Feisal, and he sure doesn't come across like a radical to me. Not even remotely.

[Link: www.asmasociety.org...]

436 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:10:58pm

re: #431 albusteve

I am a geek after all, geeks thrive on accuracy and precision ;)

437 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:11:38pm

re: #434 Gus 802

Newsflash! Muslims have a tendency to be defensive of Islam. Especially if they're being confronted with a barrage of "Islam will cause the end of mankind" rhetoric.

Amazing!

438 eastsider  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:12:51pm

re: #432 darthstar

"Alas, poor Yorick, I misunderestimated him, and now the Duke is all wee-wee'd up."

and don't forget:

"That's nonsense dearest nephew Hamlet/ I refudiate all suppositions that I murdered your pop"

This and more available in "Shakespeare for the Heartland, the Complete Works Revised" available on amazon for $29.95

439 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:12:51pm

re: #418 windsagio

Also, how did it actually HELP us in the cold war to break them?

since the end of WW 2 through the end of the cold war the entire region was "up for grabs" when it came to which "side" a nation would be on. Having a US freindly gov't in Iran (considering where it sits geographically) gave us a close listening post to the USSR

Again, we're talikg from the mid 40's on. The technology to "listen" wasn't what it is now. You needed proximity back then

440 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:13:08pm

Of some relevance:


A blast from the past

441 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:13:21pm

Okay, this thread is getting emotional and turning ugly with personal insults. I don't have the temperament to deal with it without getting pissed and adding to the downward spiral, so I'm out.

Later, Lizards.

442 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:13:41pm

re: #439 sattv4u2

My understanding is that the Mossadiq government wasn't actually very pro-soviet ;) I'll do extra reading right now to be sure tho'.

443 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:13:45pm

re: #436 windsagio

I am a geek after all, geeks thrive on accuracy and precision ;)

bullshit...that wart on your nose is like a foresight...you look down at those you disagree with...what does accuracy have to do with nic naming weekdays?....nothing

444 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:13:54pm

re: #441 CuriousLurker

Okay, this thread is getting emotional and turning ugly with personal insults. I don't have the temperament to deal with it without getting pissed and adding to the downward spiral, so I'm out.

Later, Lizards.

I think its over tho', you might be safe :)

445 freetoken  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:14:53pm

Hmmmm... what happened? I go read an article on how increasing temperatures (implying AGW) will lead to greater violence throughout societies... and come back here to erupting hostilities.

Sublime.

446 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:15:16pm

re: #435 Charles

Well, I'd like to see the full speech instead of quotes that are pulled out to make him appear radical.

Radical is a relative term. I have said I am suspicious of true motives and I see reasons to be so.

447 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:15:42pm

re: #445 freetoken

Hmmm... what happened? I go read an article on how increasing temperatures (implying AGW) will lead to greater violence throughout societies... and come back here to erupting hostilities.

Sublime.

a passing spurt...no big deal

448 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16:16pm

re: #444 windsagio

I think its over tho', you might be safe :)

I'm not safe from myself, wind. I'm getting pissed over some of what I'm reading, and I know when I need to step away.

Over & out...

449 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16:19pm

re: #446 Naso Tang

Whose true motives?

450 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16:34pm

re: #447 albusteve

a passing spurt...no big deal

Uh, hate to belabor the point, but Hoops, I've got your back.

451 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16:45pm

re: #448 CuriousLurker

Excellent judgemnet, I wish I could show it sometimes :D

Have a good day!

452 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16:47pm

re: #446 Naso Tang

Radical is a relative term. I have said I am suspicious of true motives and I see reasons to be so.

If he has ulterior motives warranting suspicion, he's been doing a pretty amazing job of hiding it for many years.

453 blueraven  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:17:05pm

re: #230 Racer X

When the Saudis allow other religions anywhere near their borders, then I'll be less concerned about their intentions.

We are America. We have freedom of, and from religion. The Saudis do not. We are supposed to be like them? No thanks.

454 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:17:17pm

re: #450 Stanley Sea

Uh, hate to belabor the point, but Hoops, I've got your back.

well give it back to him this minute!

455 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:17:36pm

re: #444 windsagio

I think its over tho', you might be safe :)

LOL
It's my fault..But somebody gave me the code to the nuclear suitcase bomb..
So..I'm burning CD's for the road trip today. Almost done I think..Any suggestions?

456 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:17:47pm

re: #443 albusteve

Somebody wants to fight again >>

457 freetoken  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:17:50pm

Iowa State researchers present study on how global climate change affects violence


[...]

"It is very well researched and what I call the 'heat hypothesis,'" Anderson said. "When people get hot, they behave more aggressively. There's nothing new there and we're all finding the same thing. [...]

458 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:18:47pm

re: #455 HoosierHoops

Its not your fault :p But maybe I'm prejudiced :D

Music suggestions?

'cuz if so, I have some given genre preferences :D

459 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:19:00pm

re: #456 windsagio

Somebody wants to fight again >>

wrong

460 eastsider  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:19:12pm

re: #452 Charles

If he has ulterior motives warranting suspicion, he's been doing a pretty amazing job of hiding it for many years.

My thing is this:

If there really was something there to be freaking out about, wouldn't you bet on Palin/Malkin/Geller/et al's followers finding it and making it public?

The fact that we're seeing vague references to "inappropriateness" and such leads me to believe that the digging has been done and they've found nothing to use.

461 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:19:14pm

re: #459 albusteve

To-mah-to!

462 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:20:12pm

580 fucked up again in Oakland due to possible bomb scare:

Police Activity Closes Westbound I-580 and the 580/980/24 Interchange in Oakland (7/18/10 1:32 p.m.)
On Sunday, July 18th at 1:30pm, a Severe Traffic Alert remains in effect for westbound I-580 and the 580/980/24 interchange in Oakland due to police activity. Westbound I-580 is now closed at CA-13. The Mountain Blvd, Davenport Ave, High St and MacArthur on-ramps are also closed.

Eastbound I-580 is closed at I-980. The westbound CA-24 connector ramp to eastbound I-980 and the eastbound I-980 connector ramp to eastbound I-580 are also closed. Motorists are advised to expect long delays and avoid the area. There is no estimated time to reopen the roadway.

463 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:20:23pm

re: #461 windsagio

To-mah-to!

Blockhead-o!

When I look up the word "moonbat" in the Urban Dictionary, there's a picture of you right there.

464 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:22:44pm

re: #463 Cato the Elder

Seriously man, what did I do to make you flip out?

465 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:23:34pm

re: #449 windsagio

Whose true motives?

Wow.

466 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:24:11pm

re: #464 windsagio

Seriously man, what did I do to make you flip out?

Giving libruhls a bad name, for starters.

467 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:24:27pm

Play nice, kids.

Don't make me come down there!

468 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:24:39pm

re: #465 Naso Tang

Call me dense :)

Imam Feisal's true motives?

469 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:25:09pm

re: #464 windsagio

re: #466 Cato the Elder

Giving libruhls a bad name, for starters.

well,, YOU (windsagio) did ask!!

//

470 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:25:36pm

re: #469 sattv4u2

I was hoping for a real answer, not another insult tho :p

471 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:26:35pm

re: #470 windsagio

I was hoping for a real answer, not another insult tho :p

1),, how lonf have you been "here"?
2)all that time, and you still don't "get" Cato?
3) {sigh}!

472 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:26:57pm

re: #470 windsagio

I was hoping for a real answer, not another insult tho :p

That was the real answer. No insult intended.

I think you are a straight-up fool.

473 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:27:03pm

re: #470 windsagio

re: #471 sattv4u2

1),, how lonf g have you been "here"?
2)all that time, and you still don't "get" Cato?
3) {sigh}!

pimf

474 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:27:15pm

re: #471 sattv4u2

Trying a different approach, instead of giving him the usual knock-down drag-out.

Everybody else seems to hate those :)

475 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:28:52pm

re: #458 windsagio

Its not your fault :p But maybe I'm prejudiced :D

Music suggestions?

'cuz if so, I have some given genre preferences :D

Remember the Napster Days? I have some geek friends that made a server farm that downloaded every song known to mankind..So I have logged in to down load music..So I email Paulie..We got anything on Charles Johnson under the jazz title? He looks and looks..Nope...Are you kidding? Check Stanley Clarke or something....Yup..Hooppster you are a dumbass..He is filed under Fusion...Sorry Charles..You have been filed under Fusion.
/

476 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:29:42pm

re: #474 windsagio

Trying a different approach, instead of giving him the usual knock-down drag-out.

Everybody else seems to hate those :)

actually, from observation, you vs. him in a "usual knock-down drag-out". Lets just say I'm not putting my money on you

(sorta like,,, never wrestle in the mud with a pig ,,, the pig likes it there)

THATS what I mean by #2 in number 471!

477 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:30:01pm

re: #468 windsagio

Call me dense :)

Imam Feisal's true motives?

You're dense.

Apparently one of his motives is to pressure and threaten America into shouting out a blanket "mea culpa" to the "Muslim world" with the specter of an unlimited number of jihadis comin' to git us if we don't.

Fuck that shit.

478 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:30:26pm

re: #475 HoosierHoops

Remember the Napster Days? I have some geek friends that made a server farm that downloaded every song known to mankind..So I have logged in to down load music..So I email Paulie..We got anything on Charles Johnson under the jazz title? He looks and looks..Nope...Are you kidding? Check Stanley Clarke or something...Yup..Hooppster you are a dumbass..He is filed under Fusion...Sorry Charles..You have been filed under Fusion.
/

Or, as Sarah would call it, Jazz Fission.

479 EastSider  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:31:42pm

re: #478 darthstar

Or, as Sarah would call it, Jazz Fission.

fission's a real word., thought I think she would have gone with "Jazz mixation" or something like "nukular jazz."

480 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:32:08pm
481 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:32:16pm

re: #478 darthstar

Or, as Sarah would call it, Jazz Fission.

LOL
I notice Charles and Chick Corea are in the same folder..Hopefully that's a good thing

482 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:32:21pm

re: #477 Cato the Elder

You're dense.

Apparently one of his motives is to pressure and threaten America into shouting out a blanket "mea culpa" to the "Muslim world" with the specter of an unlimited number of jihadis comin' to git us if we don't.

Fuck that shit.

I could have sworn that several months ago you were voicing your disapproval of the Dresden bombings during WWII. Not unlike Feisal Abdul Rauf.

483 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:33:22pm

re: #475 HoosierHoops

if your list isn't finished, and you don't have it, get some of the Broken Bells album.

Still the best thing to come out this year.

484 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:34:05pm

re: #482 Gus 802

I could have sworn that several months ago you were voicing your disapproval of the Dresden bombings during WWII. Not unlike Feisal Abdul Rauf.

Ruh Roh

Is this like "Hilter liked dogs,, I like dogs ,, I must be ZACTLY like Hitler!!"

485 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:34:11pm

re: #482 Gus 802

I could have sworn that several months ago you were voicing your disapproval of the Dresden bombings during WWII. Not unlike Feisal Abdul Rauf.

But he goes on to say that if we don't "apologize" to the entire "Muslim world" for unspecified crimes, his hordes of constantly-replenished jihadis will come and get us.

Haven't heard too many Germans saying that lately.

Fuck him.

486 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:34:22pm

re: #476 sattv4u2

That's all in the observer effect, of course :)

487 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:35:15pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

Ruh Roh

Is this like "Hilter liked dogs,, I like dogs ,, I must be ZACTLY like Hitler!!"

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm only pointing out common ground.

488 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:35:15pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

Secondhand Godwin~!

489 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:35:24pm

re: #486 windsagio

That's all in the observer effect, of course :)

Emoticon-boy strikes again!

490 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:35:41pm

re: #480 Cato the Elder

You make a poor substitute for "GoddessOfTheClassroom", Hoops.

You're not nearly thorough enough in your hypocrisy.

You are making a tactical mistake by continuing to insult me..Let's drop this now big boy...

491 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:36:03pm

re: #486 windsagio

That's all in the observer effect, of course :)

wanna take a survey? See if my powers of observation aren't, shall we say, wide spread?

Don't get me wrong. I don't think most on here would fare well vs. Cato in a "usual knock-down drag-out", myself included

:)

492 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:36:49pm

re: #487 Gus 802

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm only pointing out common ground.

resulting in ,.,,,,,

That IS what you were doing!

493 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:36:50pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

You are making a tactical mistake by continuing to insult me..Let's drop this now big boy...

Done.

I'm done with you. You're done with me.

Scrollover time.

494 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:37:01pm

re: #491 sattv4u2

The point is a poll would vary widely depending on who was on at the time. Its the nature of the internet ;)

Really an instersting phenomina tho ;)

495 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:38:03pm

re: #492 sattv4u2

resulting in ,.,,,

That IS what you were doing!

Feel free to think whatever it is you want to think. I seriously doubt that Cato is anything like Feisal Abdul Rauf.

496 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:38:28pm

When you have no argument at all, smother 'em with emoticons.

497 bklynkid  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:39:23pm

All you smart guys......comunity center.....where is the comunity the area is a financial/business dist. that becomes a wastland after 5 PM and weekends. Wonder what the requirements will be to use their pool....the restaurant during wall street lunches if you like their food. There is the talk that they want to tear the building down to build the mosque/community center/swimming pool etc if they get their wish and when the new trade center(?) is built you will be able to see it from the mosque. I read most of the posts and am always surprised how mean,crude and stupid you are re charles 265 talks of slim reasons yet he will comdem a group of people because of one person.

498 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:39:37pm

re: #495 Gus 802

Feel free to think whatever it is you want to think. I seriously doubt that Cato is anything like Feisal Abdul Rauf.

yet you bring up the "common ground" because,,,,,!?!?

499 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:40:46pm

re: #497 bklynkid

Whups, I think somebody got lost on the way to another website.

You turn left at Albuquerque!

500 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:40:51pm

re: #498 sattv4u2

yet you bring up the "common ground" because,,,!?!?

Move on. I was talking to Cato. He already responded.

501 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:41:17pm

re: #497 bklynkid

I can't figure out what you're saying.

502 Kragar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:41:40pm

re: #497 bklynkid

when the new trade center(?) is built you will be able to see it from the mosque

Kind of like the old trade centers which you could see from pretty much anywhere in New York City.

What your fucking point?

503 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:41:44pm

re: #497 bklynkid

feel better now?
oh ,, and don't take this the wrong way, but
A) learn sentence structure
B) "Shift" allows for capital letters
C) (and most important) fuck off

504 Kragar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:19pm

re: #501 erraticsphinx

I can't figure out what you're saying.

Its OK, neither can he.

505 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:24pm

re: #502 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its like the guy who was upset the center was going to be built 'within rocket distance' of the WTC.

506 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:28pm

re: #500 Gus 802

Move on. I was talking to Cato. He already responded.

I'll remember that next time I'm "talking TO" someoen and you chime in!

507 blueraven  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:28pm

re: #501 erraticsphinx

I can't figure out what you're saying.

Its the Sarah Palin school of communication.

508 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:44pm

re: #501 erraticsphinx

I can't figure out what you're saying.

I can! He said this:

ll y smrt gys...cmnt cntr...whr s th cmnt th r s fnncl/bsnss dst. tht bcms wstlnd ftr PM nd wknds. Wndr wht th rqrmnts wll b t s thr pl...th rstrnt drng wll strt lnchs f y lk thr fd. Thr s th tlk tht th wnt t tr th bldng dwn t bld th msq/cmmnt cntr/swmmng pl tc f th gt thr wsh nd whn th nw trd cntr(?) s blt y wll b bl t s t frm th msq. rd mst f th psts nd m lwys srprsd hw mn,crd nd stpd y r r chrls tlks f slm rsns yt h wll cmdm grp f ppl bcs f n prsn.

509 Kragar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #503 sattv4u2

feel better now?
oh ,, and don't take this the wrong way, but
A) learn sentence structure
B) "Shift" allows for capital letters
C) (and most important) fuck off

LOUD NOISES!

510 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:43:53pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Done.

I'm done with you. You're done with me.

Scrollover time.

Notice not once in our little war of words did I ever down ding you nor have I ever. The dings I give you will be public words and you won't be able to scroll over them..ever...
Have a nice day

511 Kragar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:47:15pm

re: #505 windsagio

Its like the guy who was upset the center was going to be built 'within rocket distance' of the WTC.

Well, technically speaking, that elimnates most of the continental United States, but I'm guessing the guy would be fine with that too.

512 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:47:29pm
513 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:50:40pm

Fear of `resegregation' fuels unrest in NC

In the annals of desegregation, Raleigh is barely a footnote.

Integration came relatively peacefully to the North Carolina capital. There was no "stand in the schoolhouse door," no need of National Guard escorts or even a federal court order.

Nearly 50 years passed - mostly uneventfully, at least until a new school board majority was elected last year on a platform supporting community schools.

The result has been turmoil.

The superintendent resigned in protest. A coalition of residents and civil rights groups filed suit. Months of rallies, news conferences and candlelight vigils against the feared "resegregation" of the state's largest school district culminated in the recent arrests of four activists for refusing to vacate board members' chairs.

Locals are lecturing Northern transplants about the Jim Crow past; white school board members are quoting Brown v. Board of Education to the NAACP.

"We're not going to sit idly by while they turn the clock back on the blood, sweat and tears and wipe their feet on the sacrifices of so many that have enabled us to get to the place we are today," says the Rev. William J. Barber II, head of the state NAACP chapter and one of the four protesters arrested for trespassing at the June 15 board meeting.

But John Tedesco, part of a new board majority, says it's the NAACP and others who are "trying to play with the old '60s playbook for rules for radicals" to preserve a policy that is no longer needed, and wasn't working anyway.

"This isn't 1960," he says.

It's not. But in 1960, when desegregation first came to the Raleigh city schools, there was no pitched battle.

In September of that year, 7-year-old William Craig Campbell - whose janitor father was head of the local NAACP chapter - braved a gantlet of spit and epithets and walked into the Murphy Public School.

Despite petitions by 400 parents opposing desegregation as "not in the best interests" of white children, Campbell remained; one day, he would become mayor of Atlanta. Raleigh city schools integrated gradually, and relatively quietly.

Read it all.

514 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:51:05pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

You would be surprised how much shit I can ignore. "Whoops! Hoops? tl;dr."

Surprised by how much shit you ignore? Na, your hysterical claims of a new Golden Horde just over yonder hills makes it pretty clear you're more than willing to ignore little things like "facts". This Imam ain't radical, and he's not threatening America.

If asking for an apology is all it takes to bring a great nation to its knees… Jeeze.

515 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:51:38pm
516 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:53:00pm

re: #513 researchok

Its funny how often 'we don't need these rules anymore' according to the people that don't like them anyways >>

517 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:53:43pm

re: #513 researchok

Notice the "rules for radicals" reference. Smells like, talks like...

518 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:53:47pm

re: #516 windsagio

Its funny how often 'we don't need these rules anymore' according to the people that don't like them anyways >>

"Well, the word 'separation' doesn't appear as such in the constitution..."

519 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:54:00pm
520 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #519 Cato the Elder

An apology...or else.

Bring it, imam.

Don't forgot to get Haiku to check for monsters under the bed.

521 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:55:52pm

re: #519 Cato the Elder

"Bring it?"

Cato W. Bush!

522 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:56:43pm

Opposing this mosque will be a rite of passage for Republicans in the fall.

523 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:57:00pm

First an apology, tomorrow a minaret! Stop teh scary mooslims today!!1!!1

524 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:57:23pm

re: #522 erraticsphinx

And I still think its a box canyon.

525 allegro  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #522 erraticsphinx

Opposing this mosque will be a rite of passage for Republicans in the fall.

One hopes that rite won't result in violence. The way it's going, it isn't looking too good.

526 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:58:24pm

re: #520 McSpiff

Don't forgot to get Haiku to check for monsters under the bed.

pretty low down...Haku is not here, or a blogger

527 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:58:43pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

And while I'm on a roll here - Stanley Sea, you're a twit.

Wow!! Lucky me, I'm somebody.

528 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:58:54pm

I know.

I live in Raleigh. The tension is palpable, though the whole story isn't being told. There is a large number of people who see vouchers as the only solution to school inequalities.

This is more than a passing trend. Raleigh is the state capital and there is an enormous educated minority middle class. They don't want better schools- they demanding better schools.

529 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:59:07pm

re: #527 Stanley Sea

Its good to get some of that sweet, sweet sugar, innit? :D

530 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:59:27pm

re: #122 Charles

Sarah's really worked up about this issue! Another tweet:

Dear Sarah,

Due to your ongoing comments on matters you are either willfully ignorant about or are twisting to your political advantage, I cordially invite you to fuck off.

(Not so) Sincerely,
Talon_262

531 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:00:14pm

re: #526 albusteve

pretty low down...Haku is not here, or a blogger

But don't you get it? Cato can answer back!!

:)

532 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:00:22pm

re: #527 Stanley Sea

Wow!! Lucky me, I'm somebody.

You sure as heck are..
Hope today finds you well

533 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:01:39pm

re: #516 windsagio

My reply 528 was addressed to you.

534 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #531 sattv4u2

But don't you get it? Cato can answer back!!

:)

it's not appropriate to slam wives, kids, or pets...it's small, but expected

535 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:02:34pm

re: #533 researchok

*nod*

re: #528 researchok

Vouchers are a scam tho' >>

536 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:03:24pm

Stinky is in the house!

537 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #528 researchok

I know.

I live in Raleigh. The tension is palpable, though the whole story isn't being told. There is a large number of people who see vouchers as the only solution to school inequalities.

This is more than a passing trend. Raleigh is the state capital and there is an enormous educated minority middle class. They don't want better schools- they demanding better schools.

I see rough waters ahead for the NEA...public education in this country is nearly in shambles

538 jordash1212  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:03:42pm

re: #497 bklynkid

Incoherence.

539 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:03:57pm

Hmm, the thread just got significantly shorter. Let's see if Cato take the hint.

540 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:07:02pm

re: #535 windsagio

*nod*

re: #528 researchok

Vouchers are a scam tho' >>

They work in DC. In any event, the demand for vouchers here is no passing fad.

What is most interesting is the number of minority middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods. Despite open integration, schools in those neighborhoods are not of the same caliber- and residents pay high taxes.

Lots of reasons.

541 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:07:16pm

re: #519 Cato the Elder

An apology...or else.

Bring it, imam.

An apology or else what exactly?

To say the man was making a threat is pure melodrama. He was stating facts. There IS "an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause" and there ISN'T any "sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world". In addition, we have indeed backed dictators (not to mention interfered in other internal matters in the Muslim world).

Are you denying these things, or are you just angry that a Muslim would dare to say we should admit our mistakes?

542 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:08:06pm

Charles, you scooped everyone with your screen shot of Palin's first tweet, here's the Village Voice linking here.

[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

543 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:08:24pm

re: #541 CuriousLurker

WB >>

544 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:08:26pm

I don't care how Islam-friendly or -neutral someone is, if you can't see a problem with Rauf's statments from 2004:

The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end, says an Islamic cleric invited to Sydney by Premier Bob Carr.

New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who impressed Mr Carr at an international conference last year, arrives in Sydney today for two weeks of meetings and public talks.

Speaking from his New York mosque, Imam Feisal said the West had to understand the terrorists' point of view.

In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Imam Feisal said the bombing in Madrid had made his message more urgent. He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance [bah!], said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an "America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world.

then I say we've got a problem.

Either Rauf modifies his statements, or Cordoba House should find another imam.

And tell us once and for all where the motherfucking money comes from.

545 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:08:33pm

re: #541 CuriousLurker

An apology or else what exactly?

To say the man was making a threat is pure melodrama. He was stating facts. There IS "an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause" and there ISN'T any "sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world". In addition, we have indeed backed dictators (not to mention interfered in other internal matters in the Muslim world).

Are you denying these things, or are you just angry that a Muslim would dare to say we should admit our mistakes?

what mistakes?...there are many, but what is he specific about?

546 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:09:08pm

re: #391 Charles

Sarah's miffed at her critics:

"Refudiate," "misunderestimate," "wee-wee'd up." English is a living language. Shakespeare liked to coin new words too. Got to celebrate it!

It's one thing to expand the language by inventing a word to convey a new idea or an existing idea in a new way. It's another to use a word that you think exists but, in fact, is a totally different word. It's clear that she meant "repudiate" but didn't know that that's the word.

Personally, I liked Andy Borowitz's tweet:

Sarah Palin defends her use of the word "refudiate": "Look it up in the fictionary."

547 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:11:53pm

Sarah coins words like a counterfeiter!

548 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:12:11pm

re: #541 CuriousLurker

An apology or else what exactly?

To say the man was making a threat is pure melodrama

"or elses" aren't usually followed by "I'll love you forever",,, or,,,"everything will be GREAT!" or "no problem"

I don't know if Rauf meant the speech as a threat, a warning or hyperbole, but turning a blind eye to it would be just as wrong as calling it "melodrama", imho

549 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:12:21pm

re: #545 albusteve

what mistakes?...there are many, but what is he specific about?

You're right, he wasn't specific and I haven't seen a transcript of the talks he gave. My only point was that, while what he said may have been unpleasant to me an an American, hardly constituted a threat.

550 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:12:25pm

Because of the current abuse scandal plaguing the Church, I don't want a single one built near schools.*
See, Sarah, just how bigoted that sounds?
I got a broad brush too!
*Satire on my part :)*

551 Mich-again  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:13:00pm

It is ironic that while Americans debate the issue of the Mosque in proximity to Ground Zero, that no non-Muslims are allowed to visit Mecca, the same location where all those who will worship in that Mosque in proximity to Ground Zero call the holiest place on Earth. Heck, you can't even bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia. But that is a key ingredient to what makes the USA the great Nation that it is. Why the hell would we want to be anything like Saudi Arabia? Is that who we should be emulating?

552 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:13:07pm

re: #549 CuriousLurker

You're right, he wasn't specific and I haven't seen a transcript of the talks he gave. My only point was that, while what he said may have been unpleasant to me an an American, hardly constituted a threat.

or

He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

553 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:13:25pm

re: #544 Cato the Elder

I don't care how Islam-friendly or -neutral someone is, if you can't see a problem with Rauf's statments from 2004:

then I say we've got a problem.

Either Rauf modifies his statements, or Cordoba House should find another imam.

And tell us once and for all where the motherfucking money comes from.

Allow me to highlight Rauf's words in that repost:

The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end, says an Islamic cleric invited to Sydney by Premier Bob Carr.

New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who impressed Mr Carr at an international conference last year, arrives in Sydney today for two weeks of meetings and public talks.

Speaking from his New York mosque, Imam Feisal said the West had to understand the terrorists' point of view.

In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Imam Feisal said the bombing in Madrid had made his message more urgent. He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance [bah!], said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an "America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world.

The rest is just an interpretation of words I have not seen referenced.

554 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:13:49pm

re: #552 sattv4u2

And he said absolutely nothing controversial. It's just hard for you to understand.

555 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:14:15pm

re: #548 sattv4u2

An apology or else what exactly?

To say the man was making a threat is pure melodrama

"or elses" aren't usually followed by "I'll love you forever",,, or,,,"everything will be GREAT!" or "no problem"

I don't know if Rauf meant the speech as a threat, a warning or hyperbole, but turning a blind eye to it would be just as wrong as calling it "melodrama", imho

I've never said we should turn a blind eye to anything, but I don't see how any of what he said could be construed as a threat (or hyperbole).

556 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:14:26pm

re: #549 CuriousLurker

You're right, he wasn't specific and I haven't seen a transcript of the talks he gave. My only point was that, while what he said may have been unpleasant to me an an American, hardly constituted a threat.

saying there is an endless number a jihadis prepared to die for their cause is not threatening?

557 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:14:26pm

"America Culpa" from the President to the Muslim world will happen sometime right after a consortium of Islamic scholars admits that Jerusalem is never once mentioned in the Koran and gives the Temple Mount back to the Jews.

Realistically speaking.

558 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:14:39pm

re: #497 bklynkid

There is the talk that they want to tear the building down to build the mosque/community center/swimming pool etc if they get their wish and when the new trade center(?) is built you will be able to see it from the mosque.

So now the criteria is that Muslims shouldn't even be allowed to look at the new WTC buildings?

I guess we'll have to ban all Muslim activity in Manhattan entirely, then, because you'll be able to see the buildings from all over the island. And you'll be able to see from parts of Long Island and New Jersey too, so I guess we'll have to expel the Muslims from those areas too.

559 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:15:00pm

re: #551 Mich-again

We've been over this.

What other, totalitarian states treat their citizens should have no impact on how we treat our citizens.

PS: I should have finished reading you before posting because you totally tricked me :D

560 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:15:04pm

re: #551 Mich-again

It is ironic that while Americans debate the issue of the Mosque in proximity to Ground Zero, that no non-Muslims are allowed to visit Mecca, the same location where all those who will worship in that Mosque in proximity to Ground Zero call the holiest place on Earth. Heck, you can't even bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia. But that is a key ingredient to what makes the USA the great Nation that it is. Why the hell would we want to be anything like Saudi Arabia? Is that who we should be emulating?

Exactly, it's so lost on folks. Freedom of religion, tough shit what the religion is.

561 Summer Seale  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:15:22pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

Damn. I need a bridge to get to Summer's island on Second Life.

Let's talk.

Just go to [Link: www.secondlife.com...] and download and log in. And then send me an IM. It's free. I'll give you a tour. I'm working on my store/sim today mostly so I'm there atm. =)

562 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:15:46pm

re: #552 sattv4u2

or

He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

Looks like a fact to me.

563 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:16:27pm

re: #556 albusteve

I don't know, it might be because you really, really, really love America. Or that you don't know simple English.

He didn't make a threat at all. Just say you don't like mosques, and get it over with.

Why all the kabuki?

564 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:16:53pm

Re: 09-11-01:

I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

565 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:16:53pm

re: #561 Summer

Just go to [Link: www.secondlife.com...] and download and log in. And then send me an IM. It's free. I'll give you a tour. I'm working on my store/sim today mostly so I'm there atm. =)

Wow that is a cool web site

566 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:16:54pm

re: #563 erraticsphinx

lol, Kabuki.

567 Mich-again  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:17:20pm

re: #559 windsagio

I'm a radical centrist. Always trying to look at both sides.

568 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:17:31pm

re: #556 albusteve

saying there is an endless number a jihadis prepared to die for their cause is not threatening?

Again, no, it's a fact.

Do we feel threatened by that? Yes. But that doesn't mean HE was making a threat.

569 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:17:52pm

re: #567 Mich-again

The first half read like an argument I've read so many times that my eyes start to bleed from just thinking about it :D

570 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:18:13pm

re: #563 erraticsphinx

I don't know, it might be because you really, really, really love America. Or that you don't know simple English.

He didn't make a threat at all. Just say you don't like mosques, and get it over with.

Why all the kabuki?

if that is an insult, you have a long way to go
nice try tho

571 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:18:23pm

re: #497 bklynkid

All you smart guys...comunity center...where is the comunity the area is a financial/business dist. that becomes a wastland after 5 PM and weekends. Wonder what the requirements will be to use their pool...the restaurant during wall street lunches if you like their food. There is the talk that they want to tear the building down to build the mosque/community center/swimming pool etc if they get their wish and when the new trade center(?) is built you will be able to see it from the mosque.

GASP!!!!
You will be able to see the building from *gasp* the new trade center that is being built on that sacred ground.

and really?
"comunity center...where is the comunity the area is a financial/business dist. that becomes a wastland after 5 PM and weekends. "

Most small towns shut down after 5 or 6 pm.....it is a community during the day, does that not count?

572 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:18:24pm

re: #568 CuriousLurker

Again, no, it's a fact.

Do we feel threatened by that? Yes. But that doesn't mean HE was making a threat.

Yeah.

"Nice little country you have here. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it."

No threat there, either.

573 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:18:29pm

re: #564 solomonpanting

Re: 09-11-01:

I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.


Pat Robertson?

574 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:18:55pm

re: #564 solomonpanting

Re: 09-11-01:

I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

Maher is still on the air.

We will not change the rules because the Imam, Preacher, Pastor, Priest or Televangelist says something we disagree with.

575 Summer Seale  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #565 HoosierHoops

Wow that is a cool web site

Oh yea and if you do, I'm Summer Seale. You can IM me anytime.

576 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:19:56pm

re: #564 solomonpanting

Re: 09-11-01:

I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

Robertson concurred. We better not allow him near Ground Zero and shut down the 700 Club.

577 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:19:59pm

re: #568 CuriousLurker

Again, no, it's a fact.

Do we feel threatened by that? Yes. But that doesn't mean HE was making a threat.

nice pretzel logic....what do you suppose his point was then?

578 blueraven  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:20:51pm

re: #556 albusteve

saying there is an endless number a jihadis prepared to die for their cause is not threatening?

Of course it's threatening, but it is not a threat. It is a fact.

If GW Bush said the same thing, would that be a threat?

579 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:20:51pm

re: #576 Gus 802

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

Robertson concurred. We better not allow him near Ground Zero and shut down the 700 Club.

Crazy religious nutters are crazy!

580 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:20:53pm

re: #572 Cato the Elder

Yeah.

"Nice little country you have here. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it."

No threat there, either.

Really, Cato? So I guess if I say it's a fact, then I'm making a threat too?

581 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:21:07pm

102deg in ABQ...we'er all gonna die!

582 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:21:42pm

re: #576 Gus 802

Let me just say at this point that I'm against (on principle) all true religious radicals, whether they're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist, Shinto, whatever.

583 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:21:47pm

Heh! SOUTHERNPATRIOT:

@SarahPalinUSA Sarah BLOCK this sob Lizardoid. he follows you. Block him.

584 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:21:49pm

I went outside to clean the dog pond (kiddie pool in the yard for the dogs to walk in and drink during the summer) and it was so hot that after I cleaned it I just laid down in the cool water for a bit.
(I sprayed the cats with water a few times so they are all pissed at me now)
I think I'm going to get a kiddie pool to sit on the deck....

585 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:22:23pm

re: #581 albusteve

Vegas was 110 last weekend >> Thank god they waste all of that water!

586 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:22:33pm

re: #581 albusteve

102deg in ABQ...we'er all gonna die!

Do not touch the handle of your sliding door.

(man, that vision is sticking in my head)

587 jordash1212  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:22:42pm

re: #583 Charles

Someone's following the follower. o_O

588 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:22:43pm

re: #583 Charles

He doesn't know about the million eyes of the lizard!

589 solomonpanting  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:22:55pm

re: #573 Varek Raith

Pat Robertson?

Feisal Abdul Rauf

590 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:01pm

re: #583 Charles

Heh! SOUTHERNPATRIOT:

Because you busted her BAD! LOL

591 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:18pm

re: #589 solomonpanting

Feisal Abdul Rauf

Ah.
They sound so alike.

592 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:22pm

re: #586 Stanley Sea

Do not touch the handle of your sliding door.

(man, that vision is sticking in my head)

stepping out on the patio is instant death

593 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:53pm

re: #590 Stanley Sea

Dag, just noticed the name 'southernpatriot'.

lol@neconfederate assholes.

594 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #563 erraticsphinx

I'm sure if you tried really REALLY hard you could disagree with another poster without the snarkiness!

595 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:23:57pm

re: #526 albusteve

pretty low down...Haku is not here, or a blogger

Wasn't meant as an attack on Haku in the least, sorry if it was taken as one.

596 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:24:00pm

re: #592 albusteve

stepping out on the patio is instant death

The SUN BEAMS OF DOOOM!

597 webevintage  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:24:06pm

re: #583 Charles

Heh! SOUTHERNPATRIOT:

hahahahahha
As if you would not be able to still see her moronic tweets if she blocked you?

598 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:24:20pm

re: #591 Varek Raith

I think Robertson/Fallwell's statement was more of a threat.

Rauf stated a fact.

599 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:25:31pm

re: #594 sattv4u2

It's hard to be snark-less around the deliberately obtuse.

600 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:26:07pm

re: #598 erraticsphinx

I think Robertson/Fallwell's statement was more of a threat.

Rauf stated a fact.

Shhh!
You speak the unspeakable!
/

601 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:26:33pm

re: #600 Varek Raith

Shhh!
You speak the unspeakable!
/

No true Scotsman!

/

602 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:26:42pm

re: #596 Varek Raith

The SUN BEAMS OF DOOOM!

103 now
4-5 o'clock is a friggin beast

603 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:26:45pm

Rauf! Rauf!

My dog is calling.

Good evening, all.

604 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:28:03pm

re: #599 erraticsphinx

It's hard to be snark-less around the deliberately obtuse.

if you don't like my style take it up with me personally

605 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:28:30pm

re: #602 albusteve

103 now
4-5 o'clock is a friggin beast

Ah, so much nicer where I am.
:)

Partly Cloudy
Temperature:
91°F
Feels Like: 97°
Details:
Humid.

606 teleskiguy  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:28:43pm

re: #583 Charles

Heh! SOUTHERNPATRIOT:

This guy is a loon. He says Saddam H. would be a better president. Sick, sick, sick.

607 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:28:55pm

re: #599 erraticsphinx

That's the whole schtick tho'. Easily slip into the outrage/concern when it lets you score a few cheap 'points'.

608 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:30:26pm

re: #604 albusteve

I have no problem with your style. I think you're being obtuse, that's not a form of "style".

What you're doing right now, the melodramatic "Letz take dis outside", that would be termed a style. Otherwise, I have no problem.

609 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:30:29pm

re: #606 teleskiguy

This guy is a loon. He says Saddam H. would be a better president. Sick, sick, sick.

Really bad, just read down his recents. really bad.

610 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:31:04pm

re: #605 Varek Raith

Ah, so much nicer where I am.
:)

Partly Cloudy
Temperature:
91°F
Feels Like: 97°
Details:
Humid.

my vodka and Gatorade is ice cold...saved my life again

611 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:31:42pm

re: #599 erraticsphinx

It's hard to be snark-less around the deliberately obtuse.

I won't speak for albusteve, but please show me where I was deliberately obtuse when you snarked back here [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

612 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:31:43pm

re: #609 Stanley Sea

I don't really do twitter, what's with all the /n /n /n ??

613 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:32:17pm

re: #608 erraticsphinx

I have no problem with your style. I think you're being obtuse, that's not a form of "style".

What you're doing right now, the melodramatic "Letz take dis outside", that would be termed a style. Otherwise, I have no problem.

obtuse?...how so?
you need to elaborate

614 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:32:36pm

re: #612 windsagio

I don't really do twitter, what's with all the /n /n /n ??

/B/e/a/t/s//m/e/
/

615 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:32:40pm

re: #613 albusteve

Ok that was funny :)

616 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:32:56pm

re: #609 Stanley Sea

Really bad, just read down his recents. really bad.

Must be really hard for him to type what with his knuckles being all scraped up and all.

//

617 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:33:00pm

re: #614 Varek Raith

U R no help at all!

618 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:33:29pm

re: #615 windsagio

Ok that was funny :)

any idiot would have thought so, I'm sure

619 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:33:32pm

re: #617 windsagio

U R no help at all!

Then my mission is complete.

620 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:33:46pm

re: #619 Varek Raith

Whose side are you on, anyways?

621 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:33:59pm

re: #612 windsagio

I don't really do twitter, what's with all the /n /n /n ??

I have no idea. I'm really learning still.

622 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:34:00pm

re: #620 windsagio

Whose side are you on, anyways?

In what?

623 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:34:23pm

re: #620 windsagio

Whose side are you on, anyways?

there are no sides, only obtuse, idiots

624 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:34:26pm

re: #544 Cato the Elder

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Actually, the Imam is in err.

It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. Israeli civilians are terror targets because they might grow up to be soldiers or give both to soldiers, etc.

All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel, etc. Western civilians are targets because they send troops to figt (corrupt and evil) Islamic regimes.

Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets.

That said, I don't have a problem with Cordoba House, per se.

I do believe the imam needs to clarify his remarks and his intentions. If he doesn't he'll be regarded as a marginal influence at best.

625 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:35:28pm

re: #623 albusteve

there are no sides, only obtuse, idiots

Obtuse have 3.

626 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:35:38pm

re: #603 Cato the Elder

Rauf! Rauf!

My dog is calling.

Good evening, all.

You dog is calling Imam Rauf's name? Wow, I had no idea they were acquainted! LOL

Enjoy your evening.

627 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:35:39pm

re: #618 albusteve

OHHH, snap.

628 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:36:32pm

re: #624 researchok

Actually, the Imam is in err.

It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. Israeli civilians are terror targets because they might grow up to be soldiers or give both to soldiers, etc.

All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel, etc. Western civilians are targets because they send troops to figt (corrupt and evil) Islamic regimes.

Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets.

That said, I don't have a problem with Cordoba House, per se.

I do believe the imam needs to clarify his remarks and his intentions. If he doesn't he'll be regarded as a marginal influence at best.

there can be no problem with the mosque, per say or otherwise...if a terrorist/symp is funding it, that's another matter and it's an honest question

629 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:37:17pm

re: #625 McSpiff

Obtuse have 3.

I'm bad at geology

630 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:37:31pm

re: #628 albusteve

Yes, I agree. I have no problem with the building of the mosque/community center.

My remarks addressed a point Rauf made.

631 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:37:48pm

re: #620 windsagio

Whose side are you on, anyways?

I had a really stupid girlfriend once who used to say "anyways".

Is that you, Agnes?

632 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:37:57pm

re: #583 Charles

Heh! SOUTHERNPATRIOT:

if you have an open twitter feed you can't really block someone in the way this nitwit thinks.

633 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:38:11pm

re: #624 researchok

It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever.

All of it eh?

The monolithic Islam strikes again!

634 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:38:21pm

re: #630 researchok

Yes, I agree. I have no problem with the building of the mosque/community center.

My remarks addressed a point Rauf made.

understood

635 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:38:58pm

re: #631 Cato the Elder

my loose style is part of my charm Cato :D

636 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:39:19pm

re: #630 researchok

Really, you'd have no problem with a religious building of a religion you consider genocidal?

Sounds odd.

637 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:39:44pm

I wonder what the "America Culpa" apology that Raufrauf requires of the American President in order for the terrorism to stop would actually entail.

Abandonment of Israel, perhaps?

Nah. Couldn't be that.

638 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:39:55pm

re: #633 windsagio

All of it eh?

The monolithic Islam strikes again!

Pretty much. War has been waged by Muslim regimes that way since just after Andalusia.

639 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:03pm

re: #635 windsagio

my loose style is part of my charm Cato :D

I thought you were precision oriented?...what happened to that?

640 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:11pm

re: #611 sattv4u2

You won't speak for allbusteve. Got it.

641 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:16pm

re: #635 windsagio

my loose style is part of my charm Cato :D

I think Agnus was 'loose" too

It's what 1st attracted him to her!

642 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:18pm

re: #638 researchok

That is what we call 'being prejudiced'.

not a big fan.

643 Nimed  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:40pm

Jesus, what a thread.

644 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:40:41pm

re: #636 erraticsphinx

Really, you'd have no problem with a religious building of a religion you consider genocidal?

Sounds odd.

Where did I say Islam was genocidal?

645 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:41:01pm

re: #640 erraticsphinx

You won't speak for allbusteve. Got it.

I spoke for myself
see the link
it was your response to me!

(lessons cost extra)

646 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:41:02pm

re: #639 albusteve

People also find that dichotomy charming :D

Or so I'm told.

647 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:41:28pm

That SOUTHERPATRIOT chap seems to be stalking Mrs. Palin a bit, I can't tell if he's more obsessed with Charles or her.

648 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:41:36pm

re: #646 windsagio

People also find that dichotomy charming :D

Or so I'm told.

your mother doesn't count

649 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:41:58pm

re: #637 Cato the Elder

I wonder what the "America Culpa" apology that Raufrauf requires of the American President in order for the terrorism to stop would actually entail.

Abandonment of Israel, perhaps?

Nah. Couldn't be that.

That's the same argument they've been making against Obama. Remember? Obama is on the "apology tour"? Here, take a look:

"America Culpa" Obama

That the writer used the phrase "America Culpa" should be a red flag already. I still haven't seen any exact quote.

650 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:42:10pm
651 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:42:22pm

So, I promised my wife I'd go through the pile of mail I have a habit of dumping on the chair where I set my laptop bag, and finally got to it just now. What did I find? First, two solicitations from different firms about 2300 dollars owed to me by a former employer (for a 10% contingency fee, of course), and my 2009 check from the State of California for my tax return...I'd forgotten about that, so another 888 dollars which comes in handy as I just refilled our propane tank (905 dollars).

Okay...it's warm out. Friends are having a 'pool party' at their house this afternoon. I've got a four-pack of Rib-eyes from Costco and a bottle of Balmoral 2000 McLaren Vale Syrah (a very nice Aussie wine if you see it on the shelf, by the way)...Dogs have already been to the beach, so they'll stay home.

Hope the fireworks have died down...I stopped paying attention a while ago.

652 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:42:30pm

re: #648 albusteve

your mother doesn't count

What happened to leaving family and pets out?

653 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:42:46pm

re: #650 Cato the Elder

that's 'cuz you don't like me very much, tho' ;)

654 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:43:00pm

re: #648 albusteve

"My mother was a Saint!"

655 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:43:45pm

re: #653 windsagio

that's 'cuz you don't like me very much, tho' ;)

I don't care enough about you not to like you !
/

656 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:44:11pm

re: #637 Cato the Elder

None of the things you're citing in that Sun Herald article are quotes from the Imam. All of the worst-sounding phrases are the article writer's words, not the Imam's. This is why I said I'd like to see what he actually said; I don't trust this article. If he really said those kinds of things, they should have been able to produce some real quotes.

657 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:44:27pm

re: #644 researchok

"It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. "

"Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets."

"All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel"

A religion that wants to kill all westerners, civilian or military, sounds pretty genocidal. But you still have no problems with mosques.

658 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:44:32pm

re: #655 sattv4u2

You shouldn't steal others lines Satt >>


(For some reason I actually like you, you've got a good attitude, even if I hate most of your positions :P)

659 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:45:05pm

re: #651 darthstar

I've got a four-pack of Rib-eyes

You're bring 4 rib eyes to a "pool party"?

Everyone gets , what ,,, half a bite each !?!?!

660 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:45:13pm

re: #624 researchok

It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. Israeli civilians are terror targets because they might grow up to be soldiers or give both to soldiers, etc.

All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel, etc. Western civilians are targets because they send troops to figt (corrupt and evil) Islamic regimes.

Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets.

Incorrect. That is a twisted Jihadi justification probably sanctioned by "scholars" with an agenda.

661 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:45:19pm

re: #655 sattv4u2

I don't care enough about you not to like you !
/

Eh I'm not sure why you through a sarc tag in there, I agree with that statement. Not about you obviously sattv4u2.

"The opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference"

662 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:01pm

re: #645 sattv4u2

Yeah, I got the link just fine.

663 teleskiguy  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:02pm

Charles,

Here's the video with Saint Sarah saying "refudiate" like she means it.

Maybe you could make a video of her saying that "word" over and over again along with "You Betcha!" a la Glenn Beck Is A Raving Freakazoid Nut Sandwich.

664 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:05pm

re: #660 CuriousLurker

And more to the point presented as representative by outsiders who have a bone to pick with Islam in general, and want to demonize it.

665 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:24pm

re: #659 sattv4u2

I've got a four-pack of Rib-eyes

You're bring 4 rib eyes to a "pool party"?

Everyone gets , what ,,, half a bite each !?!?!

He didn't say he was gonna share!

666 albusteve  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:42pm

re: #652 McSpiff

What happened to leaving family and pets out?

that's my point...get it now?

667 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:51pm

re: #658 windsagio

You shouldn't steal others lines Satt >>

(For some reason I actually like you, you've got a good attitude, even if I hate most of your positions :P)

Actually, the "line" is mine, albeit modified

Someone a long LONG time ago stated that I "hated" them

Told them I didn't care enough about them to hate them!

668 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:46:53pm

re: #661 McSpiff

Its also one of the first things people say when they get really into something.

Right behind 'I'm not mad, I'm amused with your foolishness!'

669 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:47:16pm

BRB

670 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:47:25pm

re: #656 Charles

None of the things you're citing in that Sun Herald article are quotes from the Imam. All of the worst-sounding phrases are the article writer's words, not the Imam's. This is why I said I'd like to see what he actually said; I don't trust this article. If he really said those kinds of things, they should have been able to produce some real quotes.

Well, the article was written in 2004. At the very least, if all those things were made up and fobbed off as his words, it should at least be possible to find a corresponding disclaimer from Rauf.

671 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:47:28pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

See 668, but EVERYBODY says that at some point, in this thread it doesn't make sense for you tho :p

672 darthstar  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:47:40pm

re: #659 sattv4u2

I've got a four-pack of Rib-eyes

You're bring 4 rib eyes to a "pool party"?

Everyone gets , what ,,, half a bite each !?!?!

That's 5lbs of meat. There will be more meat there (probably a couple of full tenderloins knowing our host), but we thought we'd contribute a little.

673 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:48:38pm

Hey everybody I won't stick my finger into this particular pot (I got a lot of distance out of the last thread on it) so instead I'll just go OT for a bit.

I really got my exercise today.

It's about 90 degrees (if not hotter) out there and there's an event I wanted to go that's a few miles away from my house which started at noon, and my parents weren't around (still only have a learners permit) so I wake up at 9:40 and promptly regret setting my alarm because I was in the middle of one damn interesting dream which now I'll never know the climax to, feed the cats, and am out the door at 10:20 or so.

Around 10:50 I realize that I haven't seen a single bus go by and I surmise (correctly as it turns out) that the bus I want to take doesn't run on Sundays. The sensible thing would have been to head back home, but I dared to be stupid!

I trecked what had to be at least a mile probably more like to the subway station, clambor on, ride subway two stations (feeling like I'm going to be motion sick (more likely brought on by some mild heat exaustion) a lot of the way there.

After that from the metro station I get off at I still have about four or so (I'm not great at measuring long distances) so blocks to walk which was suppose to be the only real wlaking I did that day.

But I stumble through it, buy a large lemonade along the way that I take cautious sips of and stumble into the place with 10 min to spare.

I do well and have fun at the event for the five or so hours, walk back to metro station take metro back closer to home, wait around half an hour for bus that won't be coming, get fed up with waiting and with the idea of walking all the way from metro to home AGAIN and hire a cab and get dropped off at my door.

So yeah, busy day.

So yeah

674 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:48:40pm

re: #657 erraticsphinx

"It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. "

"Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets."

"All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel"

A religion that wants to kill all westerners, civilian or military, sounds pretty genocidal. But you still have no problems with mosques.

Very simplistic and disingenuous.

Why I Hate Islam. Read it.

675 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:48:56pm

re: #666 albusteve

that's my point...get it now?

Roger. I'm melting up in our own heatwave..it's been 90 degrees all week!

I'm not built for this type of summer. Should be tending goats in Siberia or something.

676 Nimed  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:49:02pm

re: #657 erraticsphinx

"It is Islam that has made clear that there are no innocents, ever. "

"Since it's inception and despite claims otherwise, Islam has always viewed civilians and non combatants of any age as legitimate targets."

"All Westerners are targets because they support the existence of Israel"

A religion that wants to kill all westerners, civilian or military, sounds pretty genocidal. But you still have no problems with mosques.

And no malice in researchok, which i a pretty reasonable dude. It just became second nature to say stuff like that. Imagine one tenth of that stuff said about Christianity or Judaism.

677 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:49:14pm

And since when does "imam" earn a capital "I"?

Do priests get a capital "P", too?

678 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:49:21pm

re: #660 CuriousLurker

Incorrect. That is a twisted Jihadi justification probably sanctioned by "scholars" with an agenda.

Yes, you are right. I should have been more clear.

679 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:49:57pm

re: #674 researchok

No, I won't. I can already tell its loathsome.

680 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:50:01pm

re: #670 Cato the Elder

Well, the article was written in 2004. At the very least, if all those things were made up and fobbed off as his words, it should at least be possible to find a corresponding disclaimer from Rauf.

"If he hasn't denied it, it must be true!"

You're almost laughable at this point. Admit it, you were wrong and move on.

681 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:50:25pm

Lol, religion.

682 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:50:27pm

re: #680 McSpiff

"If he hasn't denied it, it must be true!"

You're almost laughable at this point. Admit it, you were wrong and move on.

Make me, Spiffy.

683 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:50:42pm

re: #681 Varek Raith

You can't exclude yourself from this one, friend!

684 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:50:54pm

re: #676 Nimed

And no malice in researchok, which i a pretty reasonable dude. It just became second nature to say stuff like that. Imagine one tenth of that stuff said about Christianity or Judaism.

True. See my response 678.

685 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #679 windsagio

No, I won't. I can already tell its loathsome.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

Really. Read it.

686 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:51:46pm

Windsagio: emoticon-boy with the twitchy downding finger.

687 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:51:59pm

re: #685 researchok

Fine... I blame you if its awful.

688 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:52:27pm

re: #686 Cato the Elder

LIke I said.

689 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:52:39pm

re: #687 windsagio

*skimmed*

I blame you.

690 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:52:41pm

re: #682 Cato the Elder

Make me, Spiffy.

Seeing as I'm still icing my jaw from Friday night, I don't really need to play Internet Tough Guy. You can go ahead if you want though, maybe if you're really bad ass you'll get a time out!

691 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:52:48pm

re: #674 researchok

I've read that article before. It basically says "Islam is Nazism".

Which is what you are implying.

692 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:52:54pm

re: #683 windsagio

You can't exclude yourself from this one, friend!

Sure I can!
Let them build the damn thing and be done with it.

693 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:53:09pm

re: #677 Cato the Elder

And since when does "imam" earn a capital "I"?

Do priests get a capital "P", too?

When I say "Father O'Brien" it's one thing, when I say "that man is a priest" it's another. Grammarian that you are, surely you're aware of the distinction.

694 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:53:40pm

re: #689 windsagio

*skimmed*

I blame you.

You need to read it!

All of it.

695 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:53:49pm

re: #692 Varek Raith

If that's an out, I get out too!

Notice tho, nobody on here is willing to claim they shouldn't, probably because they already know Charles' opinion on the matter and don't wanna be seen disagreeing with him ;)

696 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:54:19pm

re: #694 researchok

Seriously I read enough. Its actively painful.

697 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:54:32pm

re: #696 windsagio

with some 'my best friend is black!' mixed in too.

698 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:55:00pm

re: #689 windsagio

Basically, it's a genuine Muslim hater writing about how much he hates Muslims. Basically tying all evil in this world to Islam. Oooga there. Booga here.


Oh, but his Muslim friend is nice. If only Muslims weren't following...Islam. *violins play*

699 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:55:14pm

re: #695 windsagio

If that's an out, I get out too!

Notice tho, nobody on here is willing to claim they shouldn't, probably because they already know Charles' opinion on the matter and don't wanna be seen disagreeing with him ;)

Seriously, let them build it.
Doesn't bother me in the least.

700 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:55:24pm

re: #698 erraticsphinx

That's what I got too, yeah.

701 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:55:49pm

re: #697 windsagio

Haha, exactly. Pretty much. The entire article could be summarized in "My best friend is black".

702 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:56:04pm

For all the assholes who downdinged without reading:

Excerpt:

My hatred for all things Islamic stems from the truth that one of the people I admire most in the world is a Muslim. After 10 plus years, I can say my friend is the singularly most decent, honest and kindest person I know.

My friend believes in God, without equivocation, and my friend is outraged at yoke that must be borne by true Muslim believers because of the disintegration of Islam. The shame of many- but not all, who go to mosques to pray, cannot be measured. My friend describes an unwritten code and language decent Muslims share, so that they might find each other. They are too frightened to speak freely and they are too frightened to stand up to the bullies that have taken over the mosques and Islamic schools. They are the messengers of those that have redefined Islam.

These evil people are bullies, plain and simple. They are ‘gang members’ and agents of people in far away places that have an agenda of hate and destruction. In truth, allowing political and religious leaders in the Arab world to redefine Islam is equivalent to allowing gang member inmates to redefine what is America and what are American values.

These people have stripped Muslims of almost all their dignity by stripping away even their faith. Here we are in the 21st century and there are millions of people who have abandoned God in favor of despicable rulers and despots. Islam has been replaced by a new faith that has come to worship death and destruction as the highest ideals of man.

When a tyrant or dictator attempts to justify his actions, we can rightly assume that justification is false. Tyrants and dictators do not make moral choices, because moral choices can only lead to the demise of the tyranny.

These words are not empty. I have seen my friend freeze in dread when the news came that a family member was arrested back home. The family member was reported as having bitterly noted that Muslims in a European country were able to start their own business without the backsheesh (under the table bribe money) that was required at home- and that error was compounded because the family member made the remarks in the presence of some university mucky mucks, looking to score the 75 dollar reward for informing.

It took some intervention and well placed backsheesh to smooth things over.

My friend bitterly, if quietly, jokes that Israel doesn’t need the Arab world- it is the Arab and Muslim world that need Israel, because Israel is the mirror that fuels the self hatred, highlights their own ugliness. In fact, that emotion of self hatred runs so deep, that it cripples the Arab and Islamic world from moving forward, and thus better themselves. They are mired in a well designed and crafted images from the past. Like Hitler before them, Arab religious and political leaders by design, want to keep them ‘down on the farm’ by focusing their attention on a past crafted to appeal to a created identity-one that stems from the past.

703 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:56:06pm

re: #674 researchok

Very simplistic and disingenuous.

Why I Hate Islam. Read it.

This line stood out at me...


"With the help of self serving political and religious leaders, Islamic leaders have conveyed the notion that the situation Arabs find themselves in is because of, a) a ‘weakness’ in their faith and, b) because they are so superior by virtue of their faith, they have every right to impose at will whatever indignities they see fit at any time. They are victims and they can extract revenge as they see fit."

Because the longer I look at it the more I see....


"With the help of self serving political and religious leaders, Islamic Evangelical leaders have conveyed the notion that the situation Arabs American Fundamentalists find themselves in is because of, a) a ‘weakness’ in their faith and, b) because they are so superior by virtue of their faith, they have every right to impose at will whatever indignities they see fit at any time. They are victims and they can extract revenge as they see fit."

Which strikes me as being at least as, if not more true.

704 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:56:28pm

re: #699 Varek Raith

I agree!

If building it means anything at all (and it really shouldn't) its a positive statement that we in the US are above that kind of hate or censorship.

Really its just people building something on land they own themselves, tho'.

705 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:57:45pm

re: #681 Varek Raith

Lol, religion.

Hey, it helps sell windows and siding, dontchaknow?

706 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:58:00pm

re: #703 jamesfirecat

This line stood out at me...

"With the help of self serving political and religious leaders, Islamic leaders have conveyed the notion that the situation Arabs find themselves in is because of, a) a ‘weakness’ in their faith and, b) because they are so superior by virtue of their faith, they have every right to impose at will whatever indignities they see fit at any time. They are victims and they can extract revenge as they see fit."

Because the longer I look at it the more I see...

"With the help of self serving political and religious leaders, Islamic Evangelical leaders have conveyed the notion that the situation Arabs American Fundamentalists find themselves in is because of, a) a ‘weakness’ in their faith and, b) because they are so superior by virtue of their faith, they have every right to impose at will whatever indignities they see fit at any time. They are victims and they can extract revenge as they see fit."

Which strikes me as being at least as, if not more true.

You have a point worth talking about, to be sure.

That said, thank you for actually reading the piece.

707 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:58:15pm

re: #702 researchok

Man, that "Muslim friend" sure hates Muslims. Treats them as a huge, monolithic block. And they're all ignorant and evil.

He must be a good Muslims. Taqiya-less, if you will.

708 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:58:27pm

re: #705 Slumbering Behemoth

Not to mention mortgages.

709 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 3:59:08pm

Windsagio, the windy hound,
a blogorific master baiter,
gives out the downdings by the pound.
He's mad because he can't con Cater.

710 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:00:11pm

Well, what's he going to do? I ask because there seems to be a lot of mistrust being thrown about regarding Feisal Abdul Rauf. He is planning on construction the Islamic center, Cordoba House, in the vicinity of were the former WTC stood. Again, what do you think he will do once he's there?

I ask because you should realize that he's been in Tribeca (working out of the Masjid al-Farah) for the past 27 years. Almost three decades and all we have is a few allegedly controversial statements and we're supposed to say, "sorry Rauf, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to you. The Central Committee has decided that you've said things contrary to the mission of the State.

711 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:00:14pm

re: #708 windsagio

Found the link.

712 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:01:16pm

re: #707 erraticsphinx

Man, that "Muslim friend" sure hates Muslims. Treats them as a huge, monolithic block. And they're all ignorant and evil.

He must be a good Muslims. Taqiya-less, if you will.

You can insult me all you like. As for my friend, you don't know him. Show a little class and lay off.

713 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:01:21pm

Yippee! We can now start denying building permits for both religious and political reasons.

Welcome to the USSR.

714 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:01:38pm

re: #712 researchok

wait 'your' friend?

You're saying you wrote the article?

715 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:02:11pm

re: #713 Gus 802

Yippee! We can now start denying building permits for both religious and political reasons.

Welcome to the USSR.

DOWN WITH DOMINOES PIZZA!!!

716 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:03:13pm

Stanley Sea, the silly bird,
joins in on the downdingy fun.
Her posts are rare as griffen turd.
Her motto is: downding and run.

717 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:03:32pm

re: #709 Cato the Elder

Windsagio, the windy hound,
a blogorific master baiter,
gives out the downdings by the pound.
He's mad because he can't con Cater.

My G-d you're a boring old windbag sometimes. Which is unfortunate because it tends to drown out your otherwise valuable contributions. Seems like the topic of mosques in particular brings out this childish side.

718 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:03:38pm

re: #716 Cato the Elder

Can I have a poem?

719 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:03:55pm

re: #715 Varek Raith

DOWN WITH DOMINOES PIZZA!!!

DOWN WITH ATHEIST CHURCHES!!!
/wait, fuck...

720 b_snark  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:04:01pm

re: #572 Cato the Elder

Yeah.

"Nice little country you have here. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it."

No threat there, either.

It was a statement of fact, it was not a threat. You can tell that through the context it was written in. Your comment above has been linked in our common culture, through modern media, to a veiled threat.

Context matters, and makes written communication richer and understanding more accurate.

721 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:04:04pm

re: #717 McSpiff

I think he's going for a spacejesus, or maybe a cordell ;)

722 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:04:11pm

re: #713 Gus 802

Yippee! We can now start denying building permits for both religious and political reasons.

Welcome to the USSR.


Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my my my my my my my mind.

723 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:04:31pm

re: #714 windsagio

wait 'your' friend?

You're saying you wrote the article?

Yes, I wrote the article.

In fact, I wrote it after we had a visit. His youngest son was denied an exit visa from an Arab country and he was quite distraught.

724 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:04:33pm

re: #712 researchok

If you're the one who wrote than article, then why did you squeal when I pointed out that you think Islam is genocidal? YOU DO.

725 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:02pm

re: #718 Varek Raith

Can I have a poem?

Hickory dickory dock
this broad was sucking my...

726 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:22pm

re: #725 Slumbering Behemoth

Hickory dickory dock
this broad was sucking my...

Lol.

727 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:26pm

re: #724 erraticsphinx

If you're the one who wrote than article, then why did you squeal when I pointed out that you think Islam is genocidal? YOU DO.

I apologize for attempting to engage you. My mistake.

You are an idiot.

728 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:36pm

re: #723 researchok

Kinda iffy there, considering that you didn't REMOTELY present it that way.

729 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:55pm

re: #718 Varek Raith

Can I have a poem?

Varek Raith, Galactic Lord,
Hear my prayer and heed my word!
Find a scummy planet swell,
Name it "Windy", blast it to hell!

730 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:05:59pm

re: #721 windsagio

I think he's going for a spacejesus, or maybe a cordell ;)

I can't figure it out. Here's someone who I honestly believe has helped translate some very important documents from German to English, and he's spending his evening writing nasty little poems about people on the internet?

Cato, is this just some release for you after a hard day or what?

731 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:06:17pm

Apropos of nothing, i love guacamole. That is all.

732 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:06:20pm

OK, as usual Darth creates this "I better make something good for dinner tonight" So I'm off.

In honor of the way this thread is going, it's "beer butt chicken night"

733 b_snark  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:06:36pm

re: #577 albusteve

nice pretzel logic...what do you suppose his point was then?

His point was obvious - there are many in Muslim countries that are angry at the US and will not stop fighting until they hear an apology and see changes. He did not say he agreed with them, nor was what he said inaccurate.

Why do you find this so hard to understand?

734 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:06:48pm

re: #729 Cato the Elder

Varek Raith, Galactic Lord,
Hear my prayer and heed my word!
Find a scummy planet swell,
Name it "Windy", blast it to hell!

Awesome.
Favorited.

735 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:07:13pm

Ah, some of you are no fun!

736 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:07:23pm

re: #732 Stanley Sea

Peace, and to quote somebody or other, don't let the bastards grind ya down :D

737 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:07:54pm

re: #719 Slumbering Behemoth

DOWN WITH ATHEIST CHURCHES!!!
/wait, fuck...

that's ok...Tom Cruise knows exactly what you're talking about/

738 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:07pm

Bah! "Threat", "fact", whatever. If that's what the dude actually said, he can ball up that speech of his and shove it up his ass. Just my humble opinion.

739 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:13pm

re: #734 Varek Raith

Awesome.
Favorited.

Meh, I don't think posters should be suggesting that other posters get blown up.

740 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:21pm

re: #737 Aceofwhat?

Hello ace, whats the good word?

741 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:25pm

re: #728 windsagio

It's horseshit.

Also, notice how he still hasn't addressed the question of what kind of religion he thinks Islam is. Other than that he hates it. But it's ok for him to!

Look, Muslim friend! Hi!

742 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:43pm

re: #728 windsagio

Kinda iffy there, considering that you didn't REMOTELY present it that way.

Yes- I wanted people to read the post, get upset and then actually realize what I was saying.

He really is an extraordinary guy, my friend. I admire him- and his faith- greatly.

743 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:49pm

NYC Application for Building Permit
From: Special Office of the Geller Politburo and The Commissar of Spencer
Status: DENIED
Reason(s): Islamic religion; political statements

Comments: We note you've been good comrade while serving state in Tribeca for 27 years. However, agents from WND, and PJTV have provided top secret information regarding your true political leanings and intentions which is to build so called Cordoba Center for future attack on state. As such, Politburo and The Commissar must deny application and send you to Gulag.

744 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:52pm

re: #723 researchok

Yes, I wrote the article.

In fact, I wrote it after we had a visit. His youngest son was denied an exit visa from an Arab country and he was quite distraught.

I think it would be useful to you to understand that there are also millions of muslims who don't live in Arab countries. Spend some time with the beautiful Ismaili communities in Zanzibar and Mombasa. Spend some time with the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims in Asia not living in hatred and fear.

745 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:08:59pm

re: #738 Slumbering Behemoth

Except there's no proof that his actual speech was much like that at all.

the only source mentioned a very twisted little article about it.

746 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:09:05pm

re: #733 b_sharp

His point was obvious - there are many in Muslim countries that are angry at the US and will not stop fighting until they hear an apology and see changes. He did not say he agreed with them, nor was what he said inaccurate.

Why do you find this so hard to understand?

What exactly are we supposed to apologize for? Buying oil?

Or supporting Israel?

I'm guessing the later would go further, but don't hold your breath.

747 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:09:09pm

re: #739 McSpiff

Meh, I don't think posters should be suggesting that other posters get blown up.

That wasn't what he suggested.
It's an inside joke.
I rename a lifeless planet and blow it up.

748 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:09:59pm

re: #741 erraticsphinx

Ill make this easy for you.

Excerpt
:

My hatred for all things Islamic stems from the truth that one of the people I admire most in the world is a Muslim. After 10 plus years, I can say my friend is the singularly most decent, honest and kindest person I know.

My friend believes in God, without equivocation, and my friend is outraged at yoke that must be borne by true Muslim believers because of the disintegration of Islam. The shame of many- but not all, who go to mosques to pray, cannot be measured. My friend describes an unwritten code and language decent Muslims share, so that they might find each other. They are too frightened to speak freely and they are too frightened to stand up to the bullies that have taken over the mosques and Islamic schools. They are the messengers of those that have redefined Islam.

These evil people are bullies, plain and simple. They are ‘gang members’ and agents of people in far away places that have an agenda of hate and destruction. In truth, allowing political and religious leaders in the Arab world to redefine Islam is equivalent to allowing gang member inmates to redefine what is America and what are American values.

These people have stripped Muslims of almost all their dignity by stripping away even their faith. Here we are in the 21st century and there are millions of people who have abandoned God in favor of despicable rulers and despots. Islam has been replaced by a new faith that has come to worship death and destruction as the highest ideals of man.

When a tyrant or dictator attempts to justify his actions, we can rightly assume that justification is false. Tyrants and dictators do not make moral choices, because moral choices can only lead to the demise of the tyranny

.

749 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:07pm

re: #732 Stanley Sea

OK, as usual Darth creates this "I better make something good for dinner tonight" So I'm off.

Speaking of dinner, I'm hungry. Once again, it looks like I'll be following you out the door.

Have a good one, everyone.

750 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:17pm

re: #746 Cato the Elder

I still say we could afford to apologize for overthrowing Mossadeq on behalf of the UK (turns out they were pisst that he was taking away their control if Iranian oil).

751 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:20pm

re: #747 Varek Raith

That wasn't what he suggested.
It's an inside joke.
I rename a lifeless planet and blow it up.

I'm familiar with your Lord Vader thing, but he wants it renamed Windy, as in windsagio.

752 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:24pm

re: #745 windsagio

Except there's no proof that his actual speech was much like that at all.

the only source mentioned a very twisted little article about it.

Put you damn glasses on. I said "if".

753 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:38pm

re: #731 Aceofwhat?

Apropos of nothing, i love guacamole. That is all.

And here I thought you were more a "sheepish" type of guy!!
bbaaaaa!!!!

//

754 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:42pm

re: #748 researchok

I think He (and I) are saying we don't believe you.

If ES doesn't mean that, I apologize to him.

755 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:10:47pm

Scientists baffled by unusual upper atmosphere shrinkage

(CNN) -- An upper layer of Earth's atmosphere recently shrank so much that researchers are at a loss to adequately explain it, NASA said on Thursday.

The thermosphere, which blocks harmful ultraviolet rays, expands and contracts regularly due to the sun's activities. As carbon dioxide increases, it has a cooling effect at such high altitudes, which also contributes to the contraction.

But even these two factors aren't fully explaining the extraordinary contraction which, though unlikely to affect the weather, can affect the movement of satellites, researchers said.

"This is the biggest contraction of the thermosphere in at least 43 years," John Emmert of the Naval Research Lab was quoted as saying in NASA news report.

Emmert is the lead author of a paper announcing the finding in the June 19 issue of the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

"We cannot explain the abnormally low densities, which are about 30 percent lower" than from previous contractions, Emmert told CNN.com.

The thermosphere lies high above Earth's surface, close to where the atmosphere ends and space begins. It ranges in altitude from 55 miles (90km) to 370 miles (600km) above the ground -- the realm of meteors, auroras, space shuttles and the international space station.

756 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:11:14pm

re: #752 Slumbering Behemoth

So you did!

"America Culpa!"

(seriously, sorry, missed the word :P)

757 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:11:27pm

re: #755 Varek Raith

THE SKY IS FALLING!

758 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:11:46pm

re: #742 researchok

No, you don't. You just wrote an article saying you hate his faith, and that they're all Nazis (except the "good" ones!...there's always a few!).

So stop lying.
And stop quoting the article, I've read it. It was trash. That's all.

759 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:11:48pm

re: #744 cineaste

I think it would be useful to you to understand that there are also millions of muslims who don't live in Arab countries. Spend some time with the beautiful Ismaili communities in Zanzibar and Mombasa. Spend some time with the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims in Asia not living in hatred and fear.

Yes, that's true. Sadly though, that is changing. From Indonesia to Kenya, the radical movements are establishing a toehold.

760 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:11:52pm

re: #757 windsagio

THE SKY IS FALLING!

Quite.

761 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:02pm

re: #750 windsagio

I still say we could afford to apologize for overthrowing Mossadeq on behalf of the UK (turns out they were pisst that he was taking away their control if Iranian oil).

You can apologize for anything you want to. But first you might want to decide how to spell the name of the guy you're apologizing for overthrowing.

762 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:19pm

re: #754 windsagio

I think He (and I) are saying we don't believe you.

If ES doesn't mean that, I apologize to him.

What don't you believe?

763 Nimed  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #702 researchok

It's lovely. I especially liked this part:

For Hitler, it was the notion of the uber mensch, the ‘pure’ Aryan. For the Arabs, it is a romantic vision of a new Caliphate, one where Arabs and Muslims are perceived as righteous leaders, scholars, recognized and catered to by others. These tactics have proved to be very successful. Arab world political and religious leaders keep the chains of tyranny tightly bound- and Arabs, like the German volk, look adoringly at their leaders and say, ‘Thank You.’

It's really a fair, toughtful, and nuanced critique. Since we've entered Godwin territory, I have found a very similar article, which I supposed could be titled "Why I hate Christianity".
[Link: www.nobeliefs.com...]

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.

Hitler did not have to parade his belief in God, as so many American Christians do now. Nor did he have to justify his Godly belief against an Atheist movement. He took his beliefs for granted just as most Germans did at that time. His thrust aimed at politics, not religion. But through his political and religious reasoning he established in 1933, a German Reich Christian Church, uniting the Protestant churches to instill faith in a national German Christianity.

Future generations should remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the Protestant and Catholic churches and the German Christian populace.

Come on -- do we have to have this discussion again and again? I've seen your 678, but the article you have linke engages in the same kind of reasoning -- if some Muslims do it, Islam is to blame.

764 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #751 McSpiff

I'm familiar with your Lord Vader thing, but he wants it renamed Windy, as in windsagio.

Sniff, sniff, Spiff.

765 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #754 windsagio

I definitely don't believe most of it. As for his "friend", man, that's some friendship.

I could never be friends with a Nazi! Silly me.

766 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:12:51pm

re: #757 windsagio

THE SKY IS FALLING!

looks like some one is skimming, the boss is gonna be pissed.

767 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:13:50pm

re: #764 Cato the Elder

Sniff, sniff, Spiff.

Updinged for shits and giggles. I can post a picture of myself if you want more material for this comedy routine.

768 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #761 Cato the Elder

Yeah was misspelling it at first, when I was doublechecking if there was any realistic cold war justification I saw my mistake.

Of course quibbling semantics doesn't lessen my point one iota >>

PS: Have been resisting all night asking this, what happened to your "I'm giving myself a 2 week voluntary timeout" after the last freakout?

769 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:15:12pm

re: #717 McSpiff

My G-d you're a boring old windbag sometimes. Which is unfortunate because it tends to drown out your otherwise valuable contributions. Seems like the topic of mosques in particular brings out this childish side.

My God has an "o" in his name.

How do you pronounce "G-d"?

770 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:15:47pm

re: #740 windsagio

Hello ace, whats the good word?

BUSY. Not enough time for my LGF addiction lately. On a positive note, i've spent most of my free minutes taking the kids to the beach, so i now look vaguely like something they'd hunt in Arizona;)

On a negative note, it seems that the mid-30's are challenging my typical high-calorie, high-activity lifestyle. Mind you, i'm whining about practically nothing...a small pinch where before there was none...but it's strange when your lifelong routine starts producing different results.

aaand...cue end of small violin concerto...

771 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:15:49pm

re: #768 windsagio

Yeah was misspelling it at first, when I was doublechecking if there was any realistic cold war justification I saw my mistake.

Of course quibbling semantics doesn't lessen my point one iota >>

PS: Have been resisting all night asking this, what happened to your "I'm giving myself a 2 week voluntary timeout" after the last freakout?

It's cumulative

an hour today,,, three tomorrow ,,,, pretty soon ,,, before you know it,, 336 hours (2 weeks) has flown by!!

772 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:06pm

re: #769 Cato the Elder

My God has an "o" in his name.

How do you pronounce "G-d"?

Ghyphend!

773 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:10pm

re: #769 Cato the Elder

My God has an "o" in his name.

How do you pronounce "G-d"?

just like it's spelled ,,, GD!

774 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:23pm

re: #771 sattv4u2

Man thats a good scheme. I wonder if I ever get suspended at work, I can sell that to them?

775 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:25pm

re: #769 Cato the Elder

I do it with respect for other posters, something you're apparently incapable of.

776 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:30pm

I see at some point in this thread we were discussing weather. It's nearly 106 here, Air Quality: Good, which is rare here during the summer months.

777 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:16:43pm

re: #763 Nimed

It's lovely. I especially liked this part:

Come on -- do we have to have this discussion again and again? I've seen your 678, but the article you have linke engages in the same kind of reasoning -- if some Muslims do it, Islam is to blame.

""My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter"

and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.

So Mr. Hitler you would say that Jesus wasn't a victim?

Now where have I heard that before?

(I normally don't Godwin but when it's Glenn Beck I feel he has it comming...)

778 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:04pm

re: #770 Aceofwhat?

Good enough, at least you're going out :D

I've been lazy about walking this summer, gotta get my rear in gear.

779 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:17pm

re: #776 Slumbering Behemoth

I see at some point in this thread we were discussing weather. It's nearly 106 here, Air Quality: Good, which is rare here during the summer months.

84.0°F (28.9 °C)
Partly Cloudy
Wind: 19.6 mph Southwest
Dew Pt.: 46.9 F (8.3 C)
Heat Index: 82 F (28 C)

780 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:19pm

re: #775 McSpiff

I do it with respect for other posters, something you're apparently incapable of.

You have no idea what I'm capable of.

781 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:34pm

re: #770 Aceofwhat?

it seems that the mid-30's are challenging

Touhghen up, Nancy

Talk to me when you hit 55+ (like ,, well,, MOI!!)

782 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:48pm

J-sus

/

783 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #754 windsagio

I think He (and I) are saying we don't believe you.

If ES doesn't mean that, I apologize to him.

i think we're all better when we take each other at our word, don't you?

784 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #779 Gus 802

FUCK YOU!!!

785 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:18:26pm

re: #784 Slumbering Behemoth

FUCK YOU!!!

Hey it was 100 yesterday.

786 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:18:57pm

re: #783 Aceofwhat?

Within reason sure.

But if something doesn't parse, what do you do?

People try to skate on stating nonsense forcefully all the time, and it doesn't help any of us to let them get away with it.

I'm all for giving every reasonable doubt to someone.

787 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:19:06pm

re: #779 Gus 802

84.0°F (28.9 °C)
Partly Cloudy
Wind: 19.6 mph Southwest
Dew Pt.: 46.9 F (8.3 C)
Heat Index: 82 F (28 C)

You suck.

Here it's,
Dew Point:
70°

788 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:19:09pm

re: #780 Cato the Elder

You have no idea what I'm capable of.

Well, I can list some things you're incapable of, but I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate sensibilities.

789 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:19:16pm

re: #759 researchok

Yes, that's true. Sadly though, that is changing. From Indonesia to Kenya, the radical movements are establishing a toehold.

Establishing a toe hold is a far site from saying you hate a religion. I'm Jewish. The nitwits from Boro Park in Brooklyn have established a toe in our religion (and on a variety of remote hilltops in Brooklyn) that doesn't mean that someone should hate me.

790 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:19:53pm

re: #785 Gus 802

Mid 70's all week here, 's been nice :D

791 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:03pm

re: #769 Cato the Elder

My God has an "o" in his name.

How do you pronounce "G-d"?

I like the "I Am" myself...always thought that put an interesting perspective on God...

792 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:12pm

re: #768 windsagio

Yeah was misspelling it at first, when I was doublechecking if there was any realistic cold war justification I saw my mistake.

Of course quibbling semantics doesn't lessen my point one iota >>

PS: Have been resisting all night asking this, what happened to your "I'm giving myself a 2 week voluntary timeout" after the last freakout?

You should have kept resisting.

I owe you nothing but the scorn you deserve, you silly little emoticon-ridden dunce.

793 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:29pm

re: #790 windsagio

Mid 70's all week here, 's been nice :D

Screw you people and your un-summer like weather!

794 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:32pm

re: #781 sattv4u2

it seems that the mid-30's are challenging

Touhghen up, Nancy

Talk to me when you hit 55+ (like ,, well,, MOI!!)

that's why i acknowledged the tiny violin concerto at the end!

795 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:36pm

re: #785 Gus 802

That gets a lesser "fuck you", as it was also 106 here yesterday. My poor widdle AC can only get the inside temp down to 81 indoors. Praise Science for ice cubes!

796 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:20:45pm

re: #789 cineaste

Establishing a toe hold is a far site from saying you hate a religion. I'm Jewish. The nitwits from Boro Park in Brooklyn have established a toe in our religion (and on a variety of remote hilltops in Brooklyn The West Bank) that doesn't mean that someone should hate me.

PIMF!

797 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:21:07pm

re: #788 McSpiff

Well, I can list some things you're incapable of, but I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate sensibilities.

List away. I'm about as "delicate" as Windy's sense of English diction.

798 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:21:14pm

re: #787 Varek Raith

Yeah, but what's the temp?

799 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:21:21pm

re: #793 Varek Raith

Its weird, was 110 this time last year >>

Lovin' it tho'! Thats why I couldn't live south of Arcata.

or east of Cascade locks.

(I love obscure geographic reference points!)

800 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:21:31pm

re: #798 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, but what's the temp?

92.

801 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:13pm

re: #800 Varek Raith

Always vaguely fascinated by the way by the 'lets talk about something else loudly!' response to fighting ;)

(feel free to ignore of course if you want :P)

802 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:25pm

re: #790 windsagio

ARGH!!! FUCK YOU TOO!!!

803 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:29pm

re: #775 McSpiff

I do it with respect for other posters, something you're apparently incapable of.

huh ???
"other posters" don't know there's an "O" between the G" and "D" in the word god!?!?!?

When talking about a sculpted athlete, do you type "he has a body like a Greek g-d"????

804 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:32pm

re: #797 Cato the Elder

List away. I'm about as "delicate" as Windy's sense of English diction.

Just stop trying to play internet tough guy Cato.

805 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:33pm

re: #795 Slumbering Behemoth

That gets a lesser "fuck you", as it was also 106 here yesterday. My poor widdle AC can only get the inside temp down to 81 indoors. Praise Science for ice cubes!

I've got the building fan coil cooler chugging away and it's 74 inside my apartment. Meh, it's OK. I have a portable 10,000 BTU AC handy which is off right now. Problem with that is I have to vent it.

806 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:22:34pm

re: #783 Aceofwhat?

He implied Islam was a Nazi cult.

And then linked to an article by himself that stated that....Islam is a Nazi cult.
Basically, he liked Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam, you know?

I guess I do believe him at his word, he hates Muslims. He's lying about that, is what I meant. The whole "but my Muslim friend" thing is classic.

(I hope you read the article, otherwise this will make no sense)

807 krypto  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:23:15pm

But "refudiate" is in the dictionary! Namely in the urban dictionary [Link: www.urbandictionary.com...] , with correct etymology giving its Sarah Palin newspeak origins.

808 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:23:16pm

re: #786 windsagio

Within reason sure.

But if something doesn't parse, what do you do?

I believe that it's more civilized to debate why the post doesn't support the stated position than to say we don't believe the stated position. Why wouldn't that serve our purposes just as well, without resorting to the dead end of telling someone what we think they believe? That never works...

809 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:23:21pm

re: #802 Slumbering Behemoth

ARGH!!! FUCK YOU TOO!!!

Go piss up a rope!

//

810 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:23:33pm

re: #802 Slumbering Behemoth

You'll love this :p

I hate AC, it drives me crazy that my friends turn it on when the temp gets into the 80s >>

811 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:23:44pm

re: #801 windsagio

Always vaguely fascinated by the way by the 'lets talk about something else loudly!' response to fighting ;)

(feel free to ignore of course if you want :P)

Sometimes it's good to know when to just drop something.
Especially if you have no hope of persuading your opponent to your views.
Or some such nonsense.

812 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:24:27pm

re: #808 Aceofwhat?

I believe that it's more civilized to debate why the post doesn't support the stated position than to say we don't believe the stated position. Why wouldn't that serve our purposes just as well, without resorting to the dead end of telling someone what we think they believe? That never works...

Dude, that's a hell of a sentence :p

Let me ask you. If you think somebody is passing something false off as true on here, what do you do, then? Let it go?

813 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:24:44pm

re: #803 sattv4u2

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...] . Surprised you haven't seen it before. I'm not consistent with it, but I generally try to make the effort. You'll see walter do the same thing.

814 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:25:04pm

re: #811 Varek Raith

True enough :p

815 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:25:17pm

re: #812 windsagio

Dude, that's a hell of a sentence :p

Let me ask you. If you think somebody is passing something false off as true on here, what do you do, then? Let it go?


After I've made it clear I think it's bullshit?
Yes.

816 Mich-again  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:25:19pm

Big steaks on the grill. Corn on the cob boiling. Cucumber salad chilling in the fridge. Jug of iced tea ready to go.. mmm. T-minus 5 minutes.

817 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:25:42pm

re: #805 Gus 802

I've got the building fan coil cooler chugging away and it's 74 inside my apartment. Meh, it's OK. I have a portable 10,000 BTU AC handy which is off right now. Problem with that is I have to vent it.

I am noticing strange phenomenon around here... as soon as the tempeture goes above 83 the whole neighborhood starts to smell like spare ribs.

818 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:25:45pm

re: #800 Varek Raith

92 degrees with a 70% humidity? Okay, you're cool. With me, that is.

re: #779 Gus 802

Fuck you...

re: #790 windsagio

fuck you...

re: #800 Varek Raith

you're cool...

819 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:26:06pm

re: #803 sattv4u2

When I first came on here (lord almost a year now), it was a really big deal, and people yelled at me for not using the "G-d" style. Its fallen out of fashion nowadays tho', certainly was a thing before.

820 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:26:31pm

re: #815 Varek Raith

But you have to do the first part is my point :P

821 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:26:42pm

re: #787 Varek Raith

You suck.

Here it's,
Dew Point:
70°

Hot. I remember New Jersey. No AC and it would be hot all day and hot all night. The humidity would make things worse. Prairiefire mentioned the glasses fogging up and I had forgotten about the phenomenon.

822 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:26:47pm

re: #789 cineaste

Establishing a toe hold is a far site from saying you hate a religion. I'm Jewish. The nitwits from Boro Park in Brooklyn have established a toe in our religion (and on a variety of remote hilltops in Brooklyn) that doesn't mean that someone should hate me.

Please read the entire post.

823 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:26:55pm

re: #707 erraticsphinx

Man, that "Muslim friend" sure hates Muslims. Treats them as a huge, monolithic block. And they're all ignorant and evil.

He must be a good Muslims. Taqiya-less, if you will.

I read what researchok posted, and what you said, the bolded part, does not seem to be to be true one bit. There was a clear distinction made between "Islamists" and regular Muslims, IMO.

824 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:03pm

re: #803 sattv4u2

I've always seen the word as a title, not a name.

825 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:11pm

re: #817 brookly red

I am noticing strange phenomenon around here... as soon as the tempeture goes above 83 the whole neighborhood starts to smell like spare ribs.

Really? Because around here the city mandated Green (compost) bins just start to stink.

826 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:14pm

re: #804 McSpiff

Just stop trying to play internet tough guy Cato.

Do I tell you what to do or stop doing here?

No.

So go shit up a ladder.

Oops...did I just tell you what to do?

827 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:23pm

re: #816 Mich-again

Corn on the cob boiling.

I vote for finishing them off on the grill.

828 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:41pm

re: #813 McSpiff

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...] . Surprised you haven't seen it before. I'm not consistent with it, but I generally try to make the effort. You'll see walter do the same thing.

so as to avoid the risk of sinning by erasing or defacing his name

I see. So there are lots of posters here that think that the word God will be erased or defaced?

Care to name any? I've been on this board a long time and have never seen that come up as problematic for anyone!

829 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:27:59pm

re: #820 windsagio

But you have to do the first part is my point :P

I'm just being annoying, is all.

830 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:10pm

re: #806 erraticsphinx

He implied Islam was a Nazi cult.

And then linked to an article by himself that stated that...Islam is a Nazi cult.
Basically, he liked Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam, you know?

I guess I do believe him at his word, he hates Muslims. He's lying about that, is what I meant. The whole "but my Muslim friend" thing is classic.

(I hope you read the article, otherwise this will make no sense)

I read the article. I disagree with many of the lengths to which it goes. However, simply because you don't understand the manner in which he can claim that he doesn't hate Muslims yet agrees with the article as written doesn't mean that it's impossible.

Civilized: I don't understand how one can support that article without falling into the trap of liking Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam.

Uncivilized: You must hate Muslims.

*bows*

831 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:19pm

re: #818 Slumbering Behemoth

92 degrees with a 70% humidity? Okay, you're cool. With me, that is.

re: #779 Gus 802

Fuck you...

re: #790 windsagio

fuck you...

re: #800 Varek Raith

you're cool...

It's dry heat!

832 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:33pm

BRB

833 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:34pm

re: #829 Varek Raith

It's a wonderful skill really ;D

834 tnguitarist  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:35pm

Whew, I can't keep up.

835 Nimed  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:28:59pm

re: #801 windsagio

Always vaguely fascinated by the way by the 'lets talk about something else loudly!' response to fighting ;)

(feel free to ignore of course if you want :P)

Just to clarify this, wind -- I'm ignoring this because I don't want to end up again with deleted comments at the end of this thread. But rest assured I feel pretty much the same way about today's brand of shit.

836 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:29:06pm

re: #812 windsagio

Dude, that's a hell of a sentence :p

Let me ask you. If you think somebody is passing something false off as true on here, what do you do, then? Let it go?

What have I said that is false?

837 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:29:33pm

re: #830 Aceofwhat?

Part of it is that I've seen all the codewords and equivications one time too many.

838 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:29:41pm

Rough crowd, today.

839 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:00pm

re: #833 windsagio

It's a wonderful skill really ;D

Yeah.
I really don't feel like arguing.
So full snark ahead!

840 Ebetty  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:18pm

re: #834 tnguitarist

my very thoughts.

841 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:23pm

re: #835 Nimed

Oh no! Ignoring it is different :p

I'm not expecting ANYONE to take part in this shitstorm unless they actively want to.

I just think the 'oh look over there' distraction style is funny/interesting :)

842 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:28pm

re: #809 Gus 802

Go piss up a rope!

//

Believe me, if I thought it would cool this place down any, I would do just that.

843 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:31pm

re: #837 windsagio

You're so smart and ahead of the curve. I envy your prowess and experience.

844 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:31pm

re: #838 austin_blue
It sure is.

845 shiplord kirel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:38pm

Sheesh it is seriously hot in Texas today:

-Governor Perry's hair melted and hardened into a single metallic mass.
- The orange traffic cones in Lubbock started to explode like popcorn kernels, injuring several people with flying masses of orange plastic.
-The pavement got soft and started to bubble, and that was the concrete part.

846 b_snark  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:39pm

re: #746 Cato the Elder

What exactly are we supposed to apologize for? Buying oil?

Or supporting Israel?

I'm guessing the later would go further, but don't hold your breath.

The question is, is he saying these things for himself, or is he simply repeating attitudes he is in contact with? You seem intent on forcing him to take ownership even if the accompanying context says otherwise.

As far as what they expect the US to apologize for, I'm not sure but it probably has to do with the interfering the US has done in neighbouring countries - Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and others. I don't have the list of grievances so I can't be sure, but the US has a reputation for interference.

847 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:30:57pm

re: #843 TheMatrix31

I'm Fuckin' Awesome!

848 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:31:03pm

re: #825 McSpiff

Really? Because around here the city mandated Green (compost) bins just start to stink.

around here they actually have those oil drum slow cookers out on the street and sell BBQ which is kinda a strange sight in NYC.

849 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:31:14pm

re: #846 b_sharp

I still want to know what he actually said ;)

850 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:31:22pm

re: #828 sattv4u2

so as to avoid the risk of sinning by erasing or defacing his name

I see. So there are lots of posters here that think that the word God will be erased or defaced?

Care to name any? I've been on this board a long time and have never seen that come up as problematic for anyone!

Not even just posters here. I grew up near a couple synagogues, including a fairly orthodox one. The idea is the string "God" is held in RAM. Your actions will eventually cause that RAM to be used for something else or cleared, "destroying" or erasing the name.

There was at least one poster here that preferred "G-d" but I can't think of who it was, and I do know a few people IRL that prefer to write it that way. Sorry I can't be more specific. It takes no effort on my part, and shows consideration for someone's beliefs. I see no harm in it.

851 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:01pm

re: #838 austin_blue

Rough crowd, today.

must be the heat...

852 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:10pm

re: #812 windsagio

Dude, that's a hell of a sentence :p

Let me ask you. If you think somebody is passing something false off as true on here, what do you do, then? Let it go?

If it's something impersonal, no, step on it like it's a hungry roach.

But when someone says "read this, and as a caveat, i don't hate X, so let's start there", it's a belief.

We shouldn't be trying to prove that we are here falsely representing our beliefs. The best that we can do (and still remain civil, that is) is to point out that a stated belief doesn't seem to square with a particular post, and attempt to understand the apparent contradiction.

and yeah...i'm not proud of that other sentence...

853 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:11pm

re: #850 McSpiff

And it only came up because somebody wanted something to make fun of Spiff over.

854 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:18pm

re: #842 Slumbering Behemoth

Believe me, if I thought it would cool this place down any, I would do just that.

I used to get heat headaches. Especially after long bike rides. You ever get a heat stroke? I did once when I was a kid. Never went to the hospital for it but we did the cold water in the tub routine. Looking back I probably could have died.

855 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #816 Mich-again

Big steaks on the grill. Corn on the cob boiling. Cucumber salad chilling in the fridge. Jug of iced tea ready to go.. mmm. T-minus 5 minutes.

You're going to Weber-Hell for that. You're supposed to grill corn if you're grilling something else. Bet ya use propane instead of coals too, ya damn hippie.

856 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:32:46pm

re: #852 Aceofwhat?

Bah, I can't argue with you!

857 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:13pm

re: #848 brookly red

around here they actually have those oil drum slow cookers out on the street and sell BBQ which is kinda a strange sight in NYC.

Man, and I'm excited to buy icecream off the street. BBQ sounds amazing.

858 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:15pm

Ghyphenddammit all! Look how late it is!

I'm really gone.

Someone whistle when we find out where the money for this mosque is coming from, and what the good peace-imam really said in 2004.

859 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:16pm

re: #823 reine.de.tout


There are sentences where he refers to "the Arabs want this", and "Islam has always been doing this", and "Since Andalusia, the Muslims have been blah blah".

The reason this started was his incredible comment that Islam is a genocidal religion, and he hasn't taken ANY of that back.

860 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:25pm

re: #851 brookly red

must be the heat...

Mrow, mrow. Mrow, meow, meow, mrow!

//Oops not that kind of heat. That's a cat in heat.

//

861 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:41pm

re: #855 Slumbering Behemoth

I hate grilled corn actually, withers it kinda.

Strangely enough I also think the absolute tastiest way (except for raw off the stock) to do corn is microwaved still in the husk, so maybe I'm just a freak :)

862 TheMatrix31  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:33:44pm

re: #847 windsagio

Your level of self-adulation is not surprising.

863 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:34:06pm

re: #854 Gus 802

I used to get heat headaches. Especially after long bike rides. You ever get a heat stroke? I did once when I was a kid. Never went to the hospital for it but we did the cold water in the tub routine. Looking back I probably could have died.

something like one third of heat stroke victims do even with medical attention, it's no joke for sure.

864 Kefirah  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:34:48pm

re: #850 McSpiff

i prefer it that way. but i have no problem, really, if other people type it however they choose.

865 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:34:51pm

re: #862 TheMatrix31

What can I say? False modesty is still a lie :D

866 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:35:13pm

re: #859 erraticsphinx

There are sentences where he refers to "the Arabs want this", and "Islam has always been doing this", and "Since Andalusia, the Muslims have been blah blah".

The reason this started was his incredible comment that Islam is a genocidal religion, and he hasn't taken ANY of that back.

At least be honest. I never said genocidal. I was stating a historical fact. Since Andalusia there has not been a distinction between combatants and civilians is Islamic world conquests.

867 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:35:14pm

re: #857 McSpiff

Man, and I'm excited to buy icecream off the street. BBQ sounds amazing.

I don't eat meat any more but these spots do tempt me...

868 Ebetty  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:35:32pm

re: #847 windsagio

Makes me think of Spose. Notably the Meteorologist did not mention a shitstorm on the weather report. :-)

869 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:35:36pm

re: #864 Kefirah

i prefer it that way. but i have no problem, really, if other people type it however they choose.

Thanks for speaking up, makes me look marginally less crazy :D

870 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:36:15pm

re: #867 brookly red

I don't eat meat any more but these spots do tempt me...

And how are ya this fine Sunday anyways?

871 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:36:21pm

re: #831 Gus 802

It's dry heat!

Oh, you just made a BIG mistake buddy. Next time you wash your whites, I'm gonna sneak in a big ole red t-shirt when you ain't looking.

872 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:36:29pm

re: #863 brookly red

something like one third of heat stroke victims do even with medical attention, it's no joke for sure.

Yeah. I think it was in Joisy. I remember getting sun burned in Fire Island. That was so bad it came with the "bubbles".

873 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:36:32pm

re: #868 Ebetty

I'm saving that link for the next time somebody says I'm full of myself, thanks :D

874 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:01pm

re: #850 McSpiff

shows consideration for someone's beliefs.
I see no harm in it
.

as a Roman Catholic, seeing it that way (G-d) is both annoying and disrespectful. I have had several bibles throughout my lifetime. Some have been destroyed (house flood) and misplaced (God only knows where those are) and in one case a three year old with a crayon got a hold of one and in NONE of them was the word spelled with a "-"

I'm POSITIVE the authors, editors and publishers all knew that at some point in time all those would have been "erased" or "defaced"

875 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:03pm

re: #861 windsagio

I hate grilled corn actually, withers it kinda.

Strangely enough I also think the absolute tastiest way (except for raw off the stock) to do corn is microwaved still in the husk, so maybe I'm just a freak :)

Microwaved corn... what the fuck is wrong with people?

876 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:05pm

re: #870 McSpiff

And how are ya this fine Sunday anyways?

juss chillin in da hood.

877 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:08pm

re: #871 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, you just made a BIG mistake buddy. Next time you wash your whites, I'm gonna sneak in a big ole red t-shirt when you ain't looking.

Brrrrr. It's so cold in my apartment I just felt a chill!

/

878 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:22pm

re: #859 erraticsphinx

There are sentences where he refers to "the Arabs want this", and "Islam has always been doing this", and "Since Andalusia, the Muslims have been blah blah".

The reason this started was his incredible comment that Islam is a genocidal religion, and he hasn't taken ANY of that back.

There have been plenty of times I've written a comment that isn't quite as clear as it could have been.

When he says something and then posts and article he wrote that clarifies his state of mind, I'm willing to accept the clarification, rather than make demands someone "take back" something. sheesh.

879 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:32pm

re: #875 Mr Pancakes

Dude, try it.

Its freakin' AMAZING! Really!

880 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:37:50pm

re: #837 windsagio

Part of it is that I've seen all the codewords and equivications one time too many.

again, that seems unfairly presumptuous. we have a choice to make. we can either choose to believe that a person is honestly attempting to argue their position in good faith, and that they do not believe the bad thing that came to your mind...

...or we can just assume that they are not being honest about a personal belief.

You'll never be able to prove it either way. It sure seems friendlier to take someone at their word when they say "I do not hate X". The article/post which brought it to mind can still be heavily debated, but once we assume someone is lying about something so personal, we've cut off the debate in a quite uncivil manner.

881 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:38:12pm

re: #874 sattv4u2

I can't believe that you really don't remember when it was a big deal, or at least really common on here.

882 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:38:14pm

re: #866 researchok

And that would make them genocidal, would it not? Since they aim to exterminate the Western world, as you claim in your article and repeated posts?

883 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:38:36pm

re: #874 sattv4u2

Ah well, can't please everyone.

884 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:39:33pm

re: #880 Aceofwhat?

The fact that he hid the fact that he actually wrote it is a factor too.

I was already committed to saying it was lies before I knew he was the author :P

885 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:39:42pm

re: #876 brookly red

juss chillin in da hood.

Nothing wrong with that. I might be coming to your hood in a few weeks... Well, general area.

886 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:39:47pm

re: #856 windsagio

Bah, I can't argue with you!

eh, this isn't an argument...it's just hanging out...

887 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:39:55pm

re: #851 brookly red

must be the heat...

Heh. Prolly.

888 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:40:19pm

re: #883 McSpiff

Ah well, can't please everyone.

LOL, but it is easy to piss everyone off... funny how that works :)

889 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:41:10pm

re: #888 brookly red

Its also amazing how once the emotional poison is injected into a thread, everything else is a bigger outrage >>

890 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:41:31pm

re: #830 Aceofwhat?

I read the article. I disagree with many of the lengths to which it goes. However, simply because you don't understand the manner in which he can claim that he doesn't hate Muslims yet agrees with the article as written doesn't mean that it's impossible.

Civilized: I don't understand how one can support that article without falling into the trap of liking Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam.

Uncivilized: You must hate Muslims.

*bows*

And besides which, I didn't read the article as even saying that he likes Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam.

That argument supposes that Islam = the Islamist version. And I don't believe that's true.

891 shiplord kirel  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:41:40pm

I've just returned from a brief foray into the fever swamps of Wingnuttia.

Plenty of crazy, but at least nobody is using today's weather report to mock global warming like they were doing in January.

I guess that's progress of a sort.

892 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:42:01pm

re: #889 windsagio

Its also amazing how once the emotional poison is injected into a thread, everything else is a bigger outrage >>

blood in the water...

893 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:42:08pm

re: #886 Aceofwhat?

fine, change 'argue' to 'dispute' ;)

Nothing I can say to that post up above :p

894 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:42:11pm

re: #854 Gus 802

I may have had heat stroke once, or came close to it anyway.

Round here the big danger is the air quality during the summer. Highest incidents of child related asthma deaths any where in the country. People who say you can live without a car don't live here.

Fortunately, so far this summer has come unusually late, and has been unusually breezy.

895 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:43:04pm

re: #882 erraticsphinx

And that would make them genocidal, would it not? Since they aim to exterminate the Western world, as you claim in your article and repeated posts?



No, it would not.

Had you read the post in it's entirty, you would bave realized that the Islam we see see on the 6 o'clock news is a political and bastardized version of the religion.

My point was an is quite simple: What we see on TV is no more representative of Islam than Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is representative of Christianity- or the Neteuri Karta are representative of Judaism.

Again I suggest you actually read the post.

896 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:43:16pm

re: #892 brookly red

True enough, to step outside for a minute this thread today was really interesting in one way, it was basically one man spewing bile for 3 hours. No secondary fights even occurred to anyone until Researchok (sp) linked his article.

897 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:43:44pm

re: #861 windsagio

I hate grilled corn actually, withers it kinda.

ur doin it rong.

898 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:43:55pm

re: #890 reine.de.tout

And besides which, I didn't read the article as even saying that he likes Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam.

That argument supposes that Islam = the Islamist version. And I don't believe that's true.

You got any sisters?
//

899 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:43:58pm

re: #881 windsagio

I can't believe that you really don't remember when it was a big deal, or at least really common on here.

Maybe I just glossed over it because I think it's one of THE dumbest things I've ever seen, Wiki link or not!

900 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:44:18pm

re: #897 Slumbering Behemoth

ur doin it rong.

Heh, spel chkr noob.

901 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:44:32pm

re: #896 windsagio

True enough, to step outside for a minute this thread today was really interesting in one way, it was basically one man spewing bile for 3 hours. No secondary fights even occurred to anyone until Researchok (sp) linked his article.

I came late so I missed most of it.

902 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:45:01pm

re: #897 Slumbering Behemoth

Must be!

Most of the grilled corn I've had is at big 4th of July picnics and such, never do it that way with my friends and family.

It could be just part of the ritual too ;)

903 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:45:02pm

re: #890 reine.de.tout

And besides which, I didn't read the article as even saying that he likes Muslims as long as they don't follow Islam.

That argument supposes that Islam = the Islamist version. And I don't believe that's true.

I didn't read it that way either. But there is, IMHO, a much better way to make the argument that it's what the article actually says without making the incredible leap that the person is lying about what they believe.

Different people read things differently...i'm all for pedantically debating the "i don't think it means what you think it means" angle, but making it personal (i.e. "you're lying") is counterproductive and unnecessary.

904 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:46:02pm

re: #899 sattv4u2

I remember it well, because I was really confused about it at first and actually asked (I think it was Walter) about it.

Boy did I get an earful on the subject!

Comes down to, 'no reason to mock people for doing it that way, no reason to yell at people for spelling the word out'.

905 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:46:15pm

re: #895 researchok

Are you kidding me?

Read your comments again, see what you say about Islam, as a whole.

906 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:46:30pm

re: #883 McSpiff

Ah well, can't please everyone.

Okay. So if you're so concerned with peoples sensibilities and "those" people you can't name aren't here now perhaps you could consider the sensibilities of those that ARE here and are put off by the "-"!!

just sayin,!!

907 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:46:31pm

re: #894 Slumbering Behemoth

I may have had heat stroke once, or came close to it anyway.

Round here the big danger is the air quality during the summer. Highest incidents of child related asthma deaths any where in the country. People who say you can live without a car don't live here.

Fortunately, so far this summer has come unusually late, and has been unusually breezy.

Oh it got to be a lot of fun in New Jersey sometimes. Hot all day. Sticky, sweaty, and all of that "salt" being released. Then add really bad hay fever and mosquitoes!

908 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:46:39pm

re: #905 erraticsphinx

Dude, you're talking to a brick wall, I think its time to be the bigger man :)

909 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:02pm

re: #877 Gus 802

You're playing with fire. Red t-shirt and a fresh stick of lipstick.

910 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:06pm

re: #893 windsagio

fine, change 'argue' to 'dispute' ;)

Nothing I can say to that post up above :p

my daughter cried when we finished Final Fantasy XIII earlier today...she didn't want it to be over...i got to have the "it's never fun when a good game ends, but that's the price of a good game" talk with her!

911 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:09pm

re: #656 Charles

None of the things you're citing in that Sun Herald article are quotes from the Imam. All of the worst-sounding phrases are the article writer's words, not the Imam's. This is why I said I'd like to see what he actually said; I don't trust this article. If he really said those kinds of things, they should have been able to produce some real quotes.

(I've been having network router problems for a bit, hence slow participation here)

I take it you are suggesting the paraphrasing, if that's what it was, could be fake. I suppose it could, however I find it hard to think there could be an "out of context" explanation that would fly.

I haven't researched the Sun Herald, and I can't find an online transcript of the speech(s).

I do however find things like his refusal to consider Hamas a terrorist organization which our state department does, not to mention most people at LGF. There probably isn't an Imam on the planet who would do so, but I don't find that a valid excuse.

Hamas supporters were dancing in the streets in Gaza after 9/11, but Rauf can't pick his sides even on this?

912 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:32pm

re: #908 windsagio

I agree.

I'm sorry Ace and reine got involved, too. No more sniping.

913 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:50pm

re: #910 Aceofwhat?

That's a good talk!

PS: I freakin' love the image of you playing a JRPG with your daughter :D

914 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:54pm

re: #909 Slumbering Behemoth

You're playing with fire. Red t-shirt and a fresh stick of lipstick.

Cobalt blue shirt made in Pakistan would do the trick.

915 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:47:55pm

re: #899 sattv4u2

Maybe I just glossed over it because I think it's one of THE dumbest things I've ever seen, Wiki link or not!

Really? Because I'd probably have to have to go with transubstantiation but like I said, I generally try to be respectful of other's beliefs.

916 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:02pm

re: #903 Aceofwhat?

I didn't read it that way either. But there is, IMHO, a much better way to make the argument that it's what the article actually says without making the incredible leap that the person is lying about what they believe.

Different people read things differently...i'm all for pedantically debating the "i don't think it means what you think it means" angle, but making it personal (i.e. "you're lying") is counterproductive and unnecessary.

Oh, yessir, I agree.

Also counterproductive, IMO, to not accept a person's clarification but instead, insist that they "take back" what they said in a particular statement. It's very easy, when one is posting frequent comments and a thread is moving fast, to have one that is on occasion not as clear as it should be. Better to ask a question to clarify, before beginning to throw out accusations about a person's state of mind. In my most humble opinion . . .

917 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:11pm

re: #904 windsagio

agree completely

918 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:28pm

re: #905 erraticsphinx

Are you kidding me?

Read your comments again, see what you say about Islam, as a whole.

Yes, I suppose referring to authentic Islam as lived by my friend is a rather jarring notion for you.

919 windsagio  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:45pm

Ok new thread means its my cue to take a break, got stuff to do this afternoon!

Peaces, y'all!

920 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:55pm

re: #912 erraticsphinx

I agree.

I'm sorry Ace and reine got involved, too. No more sniping.

no worries here. just honestly stating my opinion...hatin' the game, not the playa...

921 brookly red  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:48:59pm

re: #907 Gus 802

Oh it got to be a lot of fun in New Jersey sometimes. Hot all day. Sticky, sweaty, and all of that "salt" being released. Then add really bad hay fever and mosquitoes!

It always puzzles me that there are no Malaria outbreaks...

922 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:49:14pm

re: #906 sattv4u2

Okay. So if you're so concerned with peoples sensibilities and "those" people you can't name aren't here now perhaps you could consider the sensibilities of those that ARE here and are put off by the "-"!!

just sayin,!!

Nope, not particularly interested in pleasing random people. I got in the habit of doing it out of respect for people I know, not just LGF. Don't plan on changing it now.

923 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:49:16pm

re: #912 erraticsphinx

See 912.

Have a nice day.

924 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:49:28pm

re: #903 Aceofwhat?

I didn't read it that way either. But there is, IMHO, a much better way to make the argument that it's what the article actually says without making the incredible leap that the person is lying about what they believe.

Different people read things differently...i'm all for pedantically debating the "i don't think it means what you think it means" angle, but making it personal (i.e. "you're lying") is counterproductive and unnecessary.

I still want to know what I lied about.

925 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:49:46pm

re: #916 reine.de.tout

Oh, yessir, I agree.

Also counterproductive, IMO, to not accept a person's clarification but instead, insist that they "take back" what they said in a particular statement. It's very easy, when one is posting frequent comments and a thread is moving fast, to have one that is on occasion not as clear as it should be. Better to ask a question to clarify, before beginning to throw out accusations about a person's state of mind. In my most humble opinion . . .

so true...requoted for emphasis...

926 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:50:18pm

re: #915 McSpiff

Really? Because I'd probably have to have to go with transubstantiation but like I said, I generally try to be respectful of other's beliefs.

waytomissthepoint

but you already knew that ,, din ya!

927 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:50:28pm

re: #897 Slumbering Behemoth

ur doin it rong.

I've overcooked corn on the grill and it's still tasty. Caramelized is gud.

928 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:50:30pm

re: #913 windsagio

That's a good talk!

PS: I freakin' love the image of you playing a JRPG with your daughter :D

I'm raising her right!

929 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:50:58pm

re: #921 brookly red

It always puzzles me that there are no Malaria outbreaks...

Probably not enough of the right Malarial organisms around and extended periods of heat.

930 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:51:00pm

These Palin threads are so divisive. Can't we have a thread on Evolution/Intelligent Design?
/

931 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:52:29pm

re: #930 Slumbering Behemoth

These Palin threads are so divisive. Can't we have a thread on Evolution/Intelligent Design?
/


OMG, let's not, let's really really not go through all of that again!
LOL.

932 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:53:13pm

re: #926 sattv4u2

waytomissthepoint

but you already knew that ,, din ya!

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. I write it G-d whenever I remember to do so. I was even nice enough to explain why I do. We even had a poster here say they prefer that way. So until Charles requests that I stop, I will continue to write as G-d.

You can think its a stupid or offense belief that people hold, but as a former Catholic I think many RCC beliefs are stupid and/or offensive.

Hope that clears it up.

933 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:53:56pm

I need a nap. Later!

934 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #932 McSpiff

Hope that clears it up.

sure does!

935 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:54:24pm

re: #924 researchok

I still want to know what I lied about.

whether you actually, secretly hate Muslims or believe that Islam in its entirety is a genocidal religion.

it would be the same for me if someone said "i am not a racist but read this"...and it seemed racist.

pointing out why it seems racist and debating that contradiction = fair.

assuming that the person is lying and actually racist, when it's a member here at LGF = unfair.

just my two cents.

936 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:55:20pm

re: #930 Slumbering Behemoth

These Palin threads are so divisive. Can't we have a thread on Evolution/Intelligent Design?
/

What, more religion?/

937 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:55:30pm

re: #906 sattv4u2

Okay. So if you're so concerned with peoples sensibilities and "those" people you can't name aren't here now perhaps you could consider the sensibilities of those that ARE here and are put off by the "-"!!

just sayin,!!

as an aside...are you actually put off by it or just making a point...I'm actually curious...

938 cineaste  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:55:57pm

re: #823 reine.de.tout

I read what researchok posted, and what you said, the bolded part, does not seem to be to be true one bit. There was a clear distinction made between "Islamists" and regular Muslims, IMO.

FWIW he didn't write an essay entitled "Why I Hate Islamists" - he wrote an essay entitled "Why I Hate Islam"

939 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:56:00pm

I have also made this article into a LGF page. Tea Party struggles with racist label:[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

940 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:56:12pm

re: #936 Naso Tang

What, more religion?/

Intelligent Design ≠ religion, my good atheist, says this Christian Evolutionist!

941 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:57:41pm

re: #939 prairiefire

I have also made this article into a LGF page. Tea Party struggles with racist label:[Link: www.kansascity.com...]

that's putting it gently...how about "Tea Party Getting Collective Asses Kicked by Racist Label"?

it's too one-sided to be an actual struggle/

942 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:57:44pm

re: #935 Aceofwhat?

whether you actually, secretly hate Muslims or believe that Islam in its entirety is a genocidal religion.

it would be the same for me if someone said "i am not a racist but read this"...and it seemed racist.

pointing out why it seems racist and debating that contradiction = fair.

assuming that the person is lying and actually racist, when it's a member here at LGF = unfair.

just my two cents.

If I hated Muslims I would not have written about how good and decent people are made to suffer.

If I hated Muslims I would not have defended Muslims from the tyrannical regimes that use religion to the point of rendering whole societies dysfunctional.

In all actuality, my friend taught me all I needed to know about Islam. It is a religion that has and can inspire great things from people.

943 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:58:19pm

re: #940 Aceofwhat?

Intelligent Design ≠ religion, my good atheist, says this Christian Evolutionist!

ID=stealth religion. Have you not been paying attention in class? :P

944 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:58:52pm

re: #937 Aceofwhat?

as an aside...are you actually put off by it or just making a point...I'm actually curious...

making a point ,, but it IS annoying, imho

945 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:59:07pm

re: #940 Aceofwhat?

Is not a man entitled to the brow of his evolving?

946 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 4:59:52pm

re: #944 sattv4u2

making a point ,, but it IS annoying, imho

Can't sweat the small stuff my friend.

947 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:00:11pm

re: #942 researchok

If I hated Muslims I would not have written about how good and decent people are made to suffer.

If I hated Muslims I would not have defended Muslims from the tyrannical regimes that use religion to the point of rendering whole societies dysfunctional.

In all actuality, my friend taught me all I needed to know about Islam. It is a religion that has and can inspire great things from people.

and if I had my druthers, you'd not be defending against such accusations in the first place. it's an altogether unnecessary path in the debate, even less necessary than capital letters at the beginning of the sentence/

948 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:00:48pm

re: #945 Slumbering Behemoth

Is not a man entitled to the brow of his evolving?

fortunately for us, less and less of a brow as evolution wore on/

949 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:01:30pm

re: #946 McSpiff

Can't sweat the small stuff my friend.

At my age, there's so little else!

All the "big stuff" has been taken care of, one way or another

950 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:01:49pm

re: #943 Naso Tang

ID=stealth religion. Have you not been paying attention in class? :P

I can think of few viewpoints i love to pwn more than ID/Creationist Christians. Isn't it funny how we're often hardest on our own camp?

951 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:01:56pm

re: #948 Aceofwhat?

fortunately for us, less and less of a brow as evolution wore on/

nobody told me there was going to be math!

952 researchok  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:02:12pm

re: #947 Aceofwhat?

and if I had my druthers, you'd not be defending against such accusations in the first place. it's an altogether unnecessary path in the debate, even less necessary than capital letters at the beginning of the sentence/

Boy, are you right in that regard!

953 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:03:52pm

re: #950 Aceofwhat?

I can think of few viewpoints i love to pwn more than ID/Creationist Christians. Isn't it funny how we're often hardest on our own camp?

That's because then we can't be called racists./

954 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:04:12pm

re: #947 Aceofwhat?

and if I had my druthers, you'd not be defending against such accusations in the first place. it's an altogether unnecessary path in the debate, even less necessary than capital letters at the beginning of the sentence/

i'M ON A ONE MAN CRUSADE.
eLIMINATE CAPITAL LETTERS AT THE BEGINNING OF SENTENCES.
nOT ANOTHER SHALL LEAVE MY KEYS.
nOPE!
i WON'T!
nEVER AGAIN!

955 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:04:35pm

re: #944 sattv4u2

making a point ,, but it IS annoying, imho

meh. making pedantic points is what we do here for fun, so i'll not begrudge you that, but people can call God whatever they please...no harm in it, IMHO.

956 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:04:59pm

re: #938 cineaste

FWIW he didn't write an essay entitled "Why I Hate Islamists" - he wrote an essay entitled "Why I Hate Islam"

FWIW- If you actually read it, that's not the gist at all.

957 erraticsphinx  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:06:02pm

I'm going to go eat before I become teabaggish in my demeanor.

Nighty night, everyone.

958 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:06:19pm

re: #956 reine.de.tout

FWIW- If you actually read it, that's not the gist at all.

FWIW, how are you??(sorry ,, didn't "see" you come in"!)

959 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:06:32pm

re: #954 sattv4u2

i'M ON A ONE MAN CRUSADE.
eLIMINATE CAPITAL LETTERS AT THE BEGINNING OF SENTENCES.
nOT ANOTHER SHALL LEAVE MY KEYS.
nOPE!
i WON'T!
nEVER AGAIN!

in a different position, i was managing >150 people, 7 managers, and 18 supervisors. staying on top of email meant cutting some corners...and now it's a habit...

960 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:07:30pm

bbl all

961 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:12:11pm

re: #960 Aceofwhat?

bbl all

Don't you mean a-l ???

962 Stanghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 5:42:28pm

Fucking a, I'm back.

There is a #shakespalin now on twitter. Oh the humor this lady brings.

963 stevedecatur  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:10:25pm

The media bias stinks. A simple Google search dismisses the big lie that the site has no relation to Ground Zero:

The historic building specifically chosen for the 13 story Muslim outreach center took heavy damage from the Islamist attack on 9/11. That destruction is actually the reason why the building fell into Islamist hands in the first place; that Burlington Coat Factory location was forced out of business by the Islamist attack. For all practical purposes it is Ground Zero, that symbolism will not be lost on any Islamist.

While the WTC address slowly reemerges as a display of American resilience, the nearby former Burlington Coat factory is preserved perfectly albeit in the hands of reactionary Muslims, a 'living' monument to the Islamist victory on 9/11, the latest in a long tradition of deliberately creating Islamic shrines in key locations intended to humiliate non-Muslims with reminders of how powerless they were to prevent their defeat against the will of Allah.

To Islamists, the shocking success of the 9/11 attacks was a clear sign of divine intervention, that God is on their side, this shrine that very battlefield will be a way to praise Allah for granting them victory and to be inspired by the martyrs that devastated the infidels in eye-shot of shrine.

The shadowy organization behind the mosque rising out of the ruins of 9/11 calls itself the "Cordoba Initiative" an obnoxiously offensive reference to the Islamic occupation of European that came perilously close to burying Western Europe under Islamic rule. This will achieve as much to bridge cultures as the Crusaders did. Honestly, nobody for a second would seriously entertain the notion of a group called the Templars Initiative attempting to build a cathedral in Riyadh on a site destroyed by Christian holy warriors.

If the organizers behind the mosque were truly dedicated to peace they'd find a location that wasn't so meaningful to the most objective elements of the Islamic world rather than appear to be working in cahoots with them.

964 stevedecatur  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:15:02pm

re: #963 stevedecatur

Apologies for my grammatical mistakes, being tired and frustrated with seeing such glaring omissions about this topic undo years of ESL studies.

965 b_snark  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:29:10pm

re: #940 Aceofwhat?

Intelligent Design ≠ religion, my good atheist, says this Christian Evolutionist!

Yes it is.

966 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:55:13pm

re: #963 stevedecatur

The Cordoba house was so named because during that time period there was unprecedented religious tolerance inside the Islamic empire, and there was stable peace between Christendom and the Islamic world for quite awhile. It was at least as peaceful between them as it was between Christians and themselves, who were slaughtering each other constantly.

967 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:55:47pm

Argh.

968 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 6:58:29pm

They always try to show up at the end of a dead thread and post their garbage propaganda.

969 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:35:44pm
970 stevedecatur  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:44:47pm

re: #966 Obdicut

The Cordoba house was so named because during that time period there was unprecedented religious tolerance inside the Islamic empire, and there was stable peace between Christendom and the Islamic world for quite awhile. It was at least as peaceful between them as it was between Christians and themselves, who were slaughtering each other constantly.

There was 'tolerance' at the whim of the Islamic overlords, shakily maintained for as long as non-Muslims acknowledged Islamic superiority. That really defies the basic Western definition of coexistence.

re: #968 Charles

They always try to show up at the end of a dead thread and post their garbage propaganda.

Ad hominem attacks, so typical.

Keep posting irrelevant maps. That's so misleading the only purpose could be 'propaganda.'

The argument about the mosque's 'distance' from 'Ground Zero' is belied by the simple fact that the building was heavily damaged and put out of operation specifically due to its close proximity to the WTC:


It formerly housed a Burlington Coat Factory store. The store's two selling floors were destroyed when the landing gear from one of the planes tore through them during the attacks.

Construction is due to begin on September 11 next year – the 10th anniversary of the terrorist attack.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278922/Plans-mosque-Ground-Zero.html

Once upon a time it was LGF that recognized the significance of the original Flight 93 memorial design being a 'crescent' but in this even more transparent, emboldened Islamist effort the symbolism of the date of construction and the location downplayed.

971 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #969 Nekama

Make an argument beyond an emotional one.

This is a society of laws, not feelings.

972 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:48:47pm

re: #969 Nekama

How far is far enough?

I'd say that if a property was within range to be showered with the ashes of thr innocents who were incinerated on 9/11, then it's not far enough.

Sensitivity works both ways.

IMHO, building "Cordoba House" on what feels like the grave of those murdered in the name of Islam ain't too sensitive.

[Video]

Seriously? A video from Acts17 and Apologetics? Those folks are off their rocker.

973 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:51:37pm

re: #970 stevedecatur

What is this bizarre fantasy that Islam was somehow more violent and oppressive to other religions than Christianity?

The Islamic world had more liberal, tolerant periods than the Christian one did, especially to Jews.

974 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:58:35pm

re: #969 Nekama

How far is far enough?

I'd say that if a property was within range to be showered with the ashes of thr innocents who were incinerated on 9/11, then it's not far enough.

Sensitivity works both ways.

IMHO, building "Cordoba House" on what feels like the grave of those murdered in the name of Islam ain't too sensitive.


[Video]

What if it was showered with the ashes of one of the many muslim victims of the 9-11 attack? What do your glands have to say about that?

Idiot.

975 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:00:01pm

re: #974 Jimmah

What if it was showered with the ashes of one of the many muslim victims of the 9-11 attack? What do your glands have to say about that?

Idiot.

Partial list of Muslim victims of 911:

Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid

976 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:02:02pm

re: #971 Obdicut

Make an argument beyond an emotional one.

This is a society of laws, not feelings.

Must Concur. The law says the building can be used for a mosque. While I do not want one there, provided the Islamic Center is funded honestly and the law is followed I can make no valid objection. The Rule of Law is cardinal in my mind; To betray it would be to truly betray the honored dead.

977 stevedecatur  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:07:14pm

re: #973 Obdicut

What is this bizarre fantasy that Islam was somehow more violent and oppressive to other religions than Christianity?

I never said made any such claim toward either invisible sky-man worshiping sect, good work burning your own strawman arguments.

The Islamic world had more liberal, tolerant periods than the Christian one did, especially to Jews.

That's ridiculously ambiguous, what's the Christian world? Is the USA part of this so called 'Christian world'? What's your definition of tolerance? I can assure you that the Islamic definition of tolerance would not be recognizable as such by Western standards.

978 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:07:43pm

re: #975 Gus 802

Gus, iirc some of the muslims who died in the WTC were members of the mosque and group that is behind Cordoba House.

I refer of course to new yorkers and muslims who were murdered, along with everyone else, by the jihadis on the planes.

979 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:08:57pm

re: #977 stevedecatur

Obdicut is speaking about the time of the Crusades, before anyone from the Old World had set foot in North America (save perhaps some Vikings).

980 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #978 iceweasel

Gus, iirc some of the muslims who died in the WTC were members of the mosque and group that is behind Cordoba House.

I refer of course to new yorkers and muslims who were murdered, along with everyone else, by the jihadis on the planes.

That would require some Googling on my part. I imagine it's very likely.

Here's a post I made about the acts17 website:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

981 Gus  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:11:18pm

re: #980 Gus 802

That would require some Googling on my part. I imagine it's very likely.

Here's a post I made about the acts17 website:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

More from others...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

982 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:18:01pm

Wow. Meltdown city here. Religious fanatics coming out of the woodwork. Sad.

983 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:20:51pm

The families and friends of muslims who were killed in the 9-11 attacks should not have a place of worship near the site of that attack because the perpetrators of the attack were also of that religion.

Makes perfect sense./

984 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:22:07pm

re: #982 Charles

Wow. Meltdown city here. Religious fanatics coming out of the woodwork. Sad.

Very sad. I've liked and respected Nekama. I hope he comes to understand why posting that vid was wrong and apologizes.

No Troll-B-Q tonight. I'm sad.

985 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:29:53pm

re: #984 Dark_Falcon

Very sad. I've liked and respected Nekama. I hope he comes to understand why posting that vid was wrong and apologizes.

No Troll-B-Q tonight. I'm sad.

He's an extremist, DF. And this was hardly a one-off. An old story : class of 2004 meets LGF of 2010 and meltdown ensues. As valid an occasion as any for firing up the barbie.

986 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:36:10pm

re: #985 Jimmah

He's an extremist, DF. And this was hardly a one-off. An old story : class of 2004 meets LGF of 2010 and meltdown ensues. As valid an occasion as any for firing up the barbie.

I hear you, Jimmah, but he did great things for this blog. Thus his account is not to be grilled, but buried, with grief. I'll miss him, but he was in the wrong on this issue and I hope that in time he can realize his error and apologize. But Charles was entirely in the right here: He has to apply standards for trolling and posting Bad Craziness evenly and fairly, else they are meaningless. That's all I can say.

987 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:38:20pm

re: #986 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, Jimmah, but he did great things for this blog. Thus his account is not to be grilled, but buried, with grief. I'll miss him, but he was in the wrong on this issue and I hope that in time he can realize his error and apologize. But Charles was entirely in the right here: He has to apply standards for trolling and posting Bad Craziness evenly and fairly, else they are meaningless. That's all I can say.

DF, just fyi-- this wasn't an isolated incident. Guy's been off the rails for weeks. I don't even know how many chances CJ gave him but it was a lot.

He'd been saying shit that would have gotten anyone else banned ages ago, imo.

988 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8:43:38pm

re: #987 iceweasel

DF, just fyi-- this wasn't an isolated incident. Guy's been off the rails for weeks. I don't even know how many chances CJ gave him but it was a lot.

He'd been saying shit that would have gotten anyone else banned ages ago, imo.

I know, and that's why I'm calm about this. Nekama was being crazy about this, but it still saddens me that he chose the path he chose.

989 ClaudeMonet  Mon, Jul 19, 2010 12:49:05am

re: #172 sattv4u2

Yeah, I remember you saying that

I (probably) have to go to Tulsa for a couple of days this week

MAJOR culture shock after 10 days at the shore!

Tulsa is the most civilized part of the state.

However, that's not saying much.

July in Oklahoma. Red earth, brown lawns, 100 in the shade. Make sure you always have liquids in the car, and DO NOT walk anywhere.

990 washsox  Mon, Jul 19, 2010 6:01:38am

Caribou Barbie - Can't Fix Stupid

991 Neo_  Tue, Jul 20, 2010 9:46:54am

“Corpse-man” .. “corpse-man” .. I need a linguistic “corpse-man” from one of the 57 states

992 Kobalt  Tue, Jul 20, 2010 9:59:36am

I dunno about this mosque...Pat Condell had a pretty poignant video about this, and I must say I agree with Pat...

993 garhighway  Tue, Jul 20, 2010 10:02:43am

re: #992 Kobalt

I dunno about this mosque...Pat Condell had a pretty poignant video about this, and I must say I agree with Pat...

Poignant my ass.

You either think the state should be picking and choosing among religions or you don't. Me? I side with the Constitution.

<
994 Kobalt  Tue, Jul 20, 2010 10:25:09am