The Coast-to-Coast Anti-Islam Movement Gets Uglier

US News • Views: 4,207

Anti-Muslim bloggers Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller used to frequently cite stories about radical Islamists forwarded to them by Jeffrey Imm; you’ll find hundreds of posts at their sites that refer to Mr. Imm.

Well, their increasingly open bigotry and their outrageously paranoid, un-American group “Stop the Islamization of America” have caused Jeffrey Imm to reevaluate what Spencer and Geller stand for — and he doesn’t like what he sees: Coast-to-Coast Anti-Islam Movement Results in Protests, Attacks Against Mosques.

While the American SIOA movement seeks to be portrayed in the media as merely “conservative,” the SIOA supporters have recently called for the “criminalization of Islam,” as well as promoting the “Burn A Koran Day.” The SIOA Facebook website is replete with vulgar and obscene images and cartoons of calls for nuclear bombs on Mecca, urination on the Qur’an, and most vulgar images possible of Muhammad. SIOA supporters have called for violence and promote hatred. SIOA supporters have made vulgar and obscene comments against specific Muslims, which the SIOA supporters defend tolerating as their defense of “free expression.”

On Sunday, July 18, 2010, SIOA Executive Director Pamela Geller made yet another appeal for support for the violent extremist group “English Defence League” (EDL) which has been involved in multiple riots, and whose members were recently arrested after throwing bricks at riot police officers during their protest of a potential mosque in Dudley (that had already been canceled.) One of the SIOA supporters has darkly claimed that a group like the violent “English Defence League” is being created in America today!

This is the English Defence League Promoted by the SIOA’s Pamela Geller - in April 2010 - EDL Protesters Breaking Through Riot Police Barriers (Photo: Daily Mail/PA Wire - David Jones)

The transatlantic effort of “Islamophobia united” is only bringing an organized effort to channel and fan the flames of hate and violence that Europe has been seeing against mosques and Muslims here now to America.

That’s exactly right. Bravo to Jeffrey Imm for taking a stand against the disgusting bigotry promoted by these people. Now that high profile conservative figures like Sarah Palin are also endorsing hatred of Muslims and not-so-veiled calls for violence, decent Americans need to make their voices heard. The so-called “anti-jihad” movement has metastasized into something ugly and hateful.

Read the whole thing.

Jump to bottom

90 comments
1 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 9:53:27am

Coincedentally I was just reading Max D. Reinhardt's page about the group against the Mega Mosque: scurrilous video from Breitbart, again.

This is a really ugly time right now and seems to be getting worse.

2 albusteve  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 9:57:50am

whew!....lot of postage here

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 9:58:03am

I don't support the Park 51 project in any sense, I just do not think that it should be forbidden unless it is violation of some civic ordinance or law.

I do not see that as the case.

But this is a nuanced opinion, and this sort of critter is of little consequence in the emotionally charged, with-us-or-against-us world of the Culture Warriors.

4 Locker  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 9:58:06am

It's nice to see you taking the lead on this one Charles as it seems that some of our community may be sympathetic to the SIOA/EDL message. Perhaps this wake up call will jar them in the right direction.

5 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 9:59:40am

re: #4 Locker

You would hope that to be the case, but the opposite has happened - with the amount of vitriol against Charles ratcheting up by Geller, Spencer, and their supporters as a result of coming out and questioning ties with the EDL, VB, and other racist groups in Europe.

6 webevintage  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:00:36am

I was just reading about "Burn a Koran Day"....
"The Dove World Outreach Center is a Gainesville, Florida-based church whose members believe in “the whole Bible,” the “end times,” and other cool Jesus stuff. For September 11, they’ve planned a whopper of a party called “International Burn a Quran Day,” and it is very inclusive! Anyone with a Koran to burn and the belief that Islam is “of the Devil” can attend. A bad-ass mustache is optional, especially for ladies."
[Link: wonkette.com...]

7 albusteve  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:01:34am

re: #5 lawhawk

You would hope that to be the case, but the opposite has happened - with the amount of vitriol against Charles ratcheting up by Geller, Spencer, and their supporters as a result of coming out and questioning ties with the EDL, VB, and other racist groups in Europe.

Islam is the Mother Lode....staking out claims, mining intolerance and bigotry...this will go on for decades

8 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:02:28am

Money quote from the article...

“We will lose the support of liberty-minded Muslims if we block the free Muslim expression of faith through our own houses of worship.”

9 Locker  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:02:33am

re: #5 lawhawk

You would hope that to be the case, but the opposite has happened - with the amount of vitriol against Charles ratcheting up by Geller, Spencer, and their supporters as a result of coming out and questioning ties with the EDL, VB, and other racist groups in Europe.

Agreed. That's a broader community than I had in mind... which was basically the LGF community. I've been here sporadically lately and I've seen a few references to departed lizards. Would you say that the Geller/Spencer smear machine is having a noticeable affect on the membership here?

10 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:02:59am

re: #3 ralphieboy

Exactly. Unpopular speech is what needs defending. Unpopular religions are what need defending. There doesn't have to be anything protecting things that are popular.

Pretty much the fundamental protection of our society.

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:03:12am

re: #6 webevintage

I was just reading about "Burn a Koran Day"...
"The Dove World Outreach Center is a Gainesville, Florida-based church whose members believe in “the whole Bible,” the “end times,” and other cool Jesus stuff. For September 11, they’ve planned a whopper of a party called “International Burn a Quran Day,” and it is very inclusive! Anyone with a Koran to burn and the belief that Islam is “of the Devil” can attend. A bad-ass mustache is optional, especially for ladies."
[Link: wonkette.com...]

Just wondering how these folks would react if someone showed up with a Bible for the bonfire...

12 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:03:28am

re: #9 Locker

Agreed. That's a broader community than I had in mind... which was basically the LGF community. I've been here sporadically lately and I've seen a few references to departed lizards. Would you say that the Geller/Spencer smear machine is having a noticeable affect on the membership here?

I've seen a few of their memes get repeated here, usually in waterdowned form.

13 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:03:44am

Really, read the whole article.

We are facing some massive hate and fear in America. Who will stand against it?

Who do you think wins if Americans reject the universal human rights of freedom of religion and freedom of worship for all?

As for me, I know where I stand.

I will consistently remain Responsible for Equality And Liberty.

Find out more about Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L) at RealCourage.org.

14 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:04:09am

re: #11 ralphieboy

Just wondering how these folks would react if someone showed up with a Bible for the bonfire...

You forget that Christianity is the One True Religion. Totally irrelevant comparison to them.

15 Locker  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:05:18am

re: #12 McSpiff

I've seen a few of their memes get repeated here, usually in waterdowned form.

Similar to my own experience here. I definitely feel as if there is an undercurrent of users who are constantly pumping out as much content as possible to increase hostility towards Muslims, in general. Just personal perspective.

16 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:05:19am

re: #8 Aceofwhat?

Money quote from the article...

“We will lose the support of liberty-minded Muslims if we block the free Muslim expression of faith through our own houses of worship.”


There are a lot of Muslims who simply see Islam as a means of cultural identification, or as a personal faith, and do not support any of Islamism political or social aims. If they start to see the former threatened, they will wind up migrating to the latter.

But these people want polarization, they want extremes. That is what drives their ideology.

17 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:05:59am

Imagine that - someone breaking with Pam and Bob's Excellent Slander Machine.

That's never been done before.

18 albusteve  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:06:43am

re: #11 ralphieboy

Just wondering how these folks would react if someone showed up with a Bible for the bonfire...

they burn you...
heretic

19 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:08:01am

re: #11 ralphieboy

Just wondering how these folks would react if someone showed up with a Bible for the bonfire...

Depends--KJV or Rheims-Douay?

20 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:08:27am

In Soviet Union, Bible burns you!

21 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:09:28am

re: #16 ralphieboy

Its similar to the Catholic bashing you see over at Freak Republic. The second you tell someone they're evil, you lose any chance at dialog.

22 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:09:45am

re: #6 webevintage

I was just reading about "Burn a Koran Day"...
"The Dove World Outreach Center is a Gainesville, Florida-based church whose members believe in “the whole Bible,” the “end times,” and other cool Jesus stuff. For September 11, they’ve planned a whopper of a party called “International Burn a Quran Day,” and it is very inclusive! Anyone with a Koran to burn and the belief that Islam is “of the Devil” can attend. A bad-ass mustache is optional, especially for ladies."
[Link: wonkette.com...]

If this is the same group I'm thinking of, you'd be just as welcome to show up and burn a non-KJV bible.

23 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:10:38am

re: #18 albusteve

they burn you...
heretic

Well, they have plenty of precedent.

24 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:10:49am

re: #20 Cato the Elder

In Soviet UnionSocon Wet Dream, Bible burns you!

25 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:11:42am

re: #15 Locker

I definitely feel as if there is an undercurrent of users who are constantly pumping out as much content as possible to increase hostility towards Muslims, in general. Just personal perspective.

There are some holdouts here from the earlier days when discussions focused more on jihadism. For them LGF has changed, and I guess they're holding out whilst biding time hoping for jihadism to become a discussion again. Then they can get back to cursing jihadism (Islam).

Sometimes it bubbles up. Take the creationist flouncer purges as an example.

26 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:13:08am

Comic-con vs Fred Phelps H/T balloon-juice

27 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:14:19am

re: #26 dreggas

Comic-con vs Fred Phelps H/T balloon-juice

Thats awesome

28 webevintage  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:16:27am

re: #26 dreggas

Comic-con vs Fred Phelps H/T balloon-juice

Bender:
Kill All Humans

God Hates Kittens
Satan's cake is a LIE.
Magnets. How the fuck do they work?

Great signs.

29 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:16:35am

re: #16 ralphieboy

But these people want polarization, they want extremes. That is what drives their ideology.

yeah...i guess. like everything, there's a lot going on. there are too many christians right now (and perhaps it's always been thus) who take the cultural exhortations of the Old Testament too personally. God's call to Israel to be faithful as a culture is a significant narrative and very important relative to their relationship with God at that time, but not really applicable to Christians in light of Jesus' arrival and sacrifice which allows a more personal relationship with God.

Unfortunately, many Christians don't know how to accept large parts of the Bible as "truly commanded of the Jews at that time"...they often confuse "true" with "DO THIS RIGHT NOW11!!1". So this leads to all sorts of misguided crusades in an attempt to purge our 'culture'.

I think there's also a decent population who have completely confused tolerance with appeasement. We can tolerate all religions, yet appease no particular person or house of worship which plots violence and evil. Unfortunately, not everyone perceives this distinction.

30 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:17:33am

re: #23 Shiplord Kirel

Well, they have plenty of precedent.

yes, everyone but Christians were saints in the Middle Ages.

9_9

31 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:18:56am

Some of these people actually believe that the KJV Bible is the only holy text ever written. To include the Hebrew and Greek "originals" (don't get me started on Biblical textual criticism, please!), which were rife with errors that the God-inspired English translators fixed, once and for all!

32 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:19:46am

re: #29 Aceofwhat?

I couldn't agree more. Especially with exhortations to not eat shellfish, not eat pork etc. Those laws sound like more of a way to preserve the population (ie disease born of some animals), not the "word of god". At least that's what i get from the old testament, most of it.

33 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:21:28am

re: #31 Cato the Elder

Some of these people actually believe that the KJV Bible is the only holy text ever written. To include the Hebrew and Greek "originals" (don't get me started on Biblical textual criticism, please!), which were rife with errors that the God-inspired English translators fixed, once and for all!

And then they bash Catholics for including theology not found in the bible. Love it.

34 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:21:47am

re: #25 BigPapa

There are some holdouts here from the earlier days when discussions focused more on jihadism. For them LGF has changed, and I guess they're holding out whilst biding time hoping for jihadism to become a discussion again. Then they can get back to cursing jihadism (Islam).

Sometimes it bubbles up. Take the creationist flouncer purges as an example.

Funny. I still feel perfectly free to curse Jihadism (≠ Islam) here.

Along with Dominionism, false piety of any stripe, and $cientology. Curse them, one and all.

35 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:22:17am

re: #31 Cato the Elder

Some of these people actually believe that the KJV Bible is the only holy text ever written. To include the Hebrew and Greek "originals" (don't get me started on Biblical textual criticism, please!), which were rife with errors that the God-inspired English translators fixed, once and for all!

Yep, it's not a widespread trait but it's common in any congregation rife with insanity. I won't even bother with a church whose pastor doesn't have a habit of incessantly referring back to the greek and the hebrew...

36 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:22:32am

re: #9 Locker

Agreed. That's a broader community than I had in mind... which was basically the LGF community. I've been here sporadically lately and I've seen a few references to departed lizards. Would you say that the Geller/Spencer smear machine is having a noticeable affect on the membership here?

There were a ton of flounces by Geller supporters. For a while every anti-Geller post brought out more. It started somewhere around here. There are still a few registered, I'm sure. If we're lucky, we'll get to see a fresh flounce in this thread!

37 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:23:19am

re: #30 Aceofwhat?

yes, everyone but Christians were saints in the Middle Ages.

9_9

You know he wasn't excusing everyone else, right? I'm just curious about why you had to say that.

38 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:24:12am

re: #29 Aceofwhat?

Strange how they stick with smiting, yet tolerate BBQ.

39 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:24:50am

re: #36 wrenchwench

There were a ton of flounces by Geller supporters. For a while every anti-Geller post brought out more. It started somewhere around here. There are still a few registered, I'm sure. If we're lucky, we'll get to see a fresh flounce in this thread!

We should get David Attenborough to narrate a flounce for us.

40 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:25:12am

re: #36 wrenchwench

There were a ton of flounces by Geller supporters. For a while every anti-Geller post brought out more. It started somewhere around here. There are still a few registered, I'm sure. If we're lucky, we'll get to see a fresh flounce in this thread!

Geller makes for excellent bait.

41 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:25:31am

re: #34 Cato the Elder

Point taken, but I think you know what I mean. I'd curse jihadism too: it's the motivation behind it that I was speaking of.

42 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:25:41am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We should get David Attenborough to narrate a flounce for us.

I was just typing up this post. Well played Kragar. Well played.

43 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:26:03am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We should get David Attenborough to narrate a flounce for us.

lol at hearing it in my head already....

44 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:26:33am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'd think Eric Idle would be far more appropriate since the flounces have all taken on an air of silly (perp)walks.

45 webevintage  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:26:40am

I know I am supposed to be afraid of the islam-o-fascists, but I just can't seem to live in the fear that is required of me.
They are evil and do evil, but really, I am more aware and fearful of what fundie evangelical dominionists could do to our country then I am at the thought of maybe getting blown up at a WalMart in the future.

46 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:26:48am

re: #30 Aceofwhat?

yes, everyone but Christians were saints in the Middle Ages.

9_9

Should I have appended a lengthy survey of Muslim, Hindu, and Animist atrocities, just to be fair and balanced?

47 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:29:42am

re: #43 wrenchwench

lol at hearing it in my head already...

"The wild threads of LGF once teemed with what is now a dying breed, done in by their own stupidity. Where once, theire mating calls of "NUKE 'EM" and "The Bible says" rang out nightly, most are now only able to mutter a garbled string on consonants before they to are brought low by the their baffled incomprehension that the world has moved on without them."

48 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:30:02am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

Should I have appended a lengthy survey of Muslim, Hindu, and Animist atrocities, just to be fair and balanced?

Yes.
Single spaced, 8pt font.
In 5 minutes.

49 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:30:45am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't forgot the random religious/patriotic youtube videos used to stop discussion.

50 Lidane  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:30:57am

re: #26 dreggas

Comic-con vs Fred Phelps H/T balloon-juice

My personal favorite sign:

[Link: kotaku.com...]

Heh.

51 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:31:21am

re: #49 McSpiff

Don't forgot the random religious/patriotic youtube videos used to stop discussion.

That would be playing in the background

52 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:32:58am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"The wild threads of LGF once teemed with what is now a dying breed, done in by their own stupidity. Where once, theire mating calls of "NUKE 'EM" and "The Bible says" rang out nightly, most are now only able to mutter a garbled string on consonants before they to are brought low by the their baffled incomprehension that the world has moved on without them."

"Once shunned from their habitat, flouncious lizardus often finds refuge in the company of others who once dwelt there. They dwell in the shadows, their eyes ever watching the threads they once called home."

53 Kragar  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:35:45am

re: #52 JasonA

"Once shunned from their habitat, flouncious lizardus often finds refuge in the company of others who once dwelt there. They dwell in the shadows, their eyes ever watching the threads they once called home."

We were going to do a separate series on them, but then we said "Fuck it, they're losers."

54 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:36:11am

re: #37 JasonA

You know he wasn't excusing everyone else, right? I'm just curious about why you had to say that.

Because if cruelty was endemic, then using an endemic example as a point to frame one particular creed or color is silly. And i like to point out silly things.

55 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:37:04am

re: #38 Decatur Deb

Strange how they stick with smiting, yet tolerate BBQ.

xactly...

56 McSpiff  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:37:10am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We were going to do a separate series on them, but then we said "Fuck it, they're losers."

The great part is, they are reading this right now. And its just driving them that much more crazy. truly wonderful.

57 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:38:23am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

Should I have appended a lengthy survey of Muslim, Hindu, and Animist atrocities, just to be fair and balanced?

Make sure you get the Cartoonists and Spagettian/Chthuluists as well.

58 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:39:18am

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

Because if cruelty was endemic, then using an endemic example as a point to frame one particular creed or color is silly. And i like to point out silly things.

Okay, then how about the other side of the argument? Throughout history Christianity hasn't been much more tolerant than other religions.

59 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:39:57am

I wish people would stop acting so surprised at this shit. It is nothing new. It has been this way in the US since Salem, and it will continue.

Fear of the other is a cornerstone of Americana, and I find it astounding that people are continually surprised by it. Don't you all have some crazy uncle or relative that spouts off hateful bigotry? Haven't you heard the old guys at the bar talk about how "the n****** are ruining everything"?

Don't be surprised either when it gets much, much worse, because it will. This is nothing new. This is who we are as a nation. We managed to beat it back under rocks for nearly a generation, for it to pupate and metastasize into a new form, but it was never gone. We just managed to form, for a brief time, a national discourse where people were shamed for expressing bigotry in public. That's falling apart now. The pushback against the civil rights movement has gained enough strength that it no longer needs to hide.

Don't fool yourself into thinking it was ever really gone.

60 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:40:00am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

Should I have appended a lengthy survey of Muslim, Hindu, and Animist atrocities, just to be fair and balanced?

no. you can be unfair if you want. but it seems a little like damning ancient Rome because they ate meat...so did everyone else. if that had been your post, i'd still have rolled my eyes and said something.

61 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:40:13am

re: #57 BigPapa

Make sure you get the Cartoonists and Spagettian/Chthuluists as well.

The FSM is goodness and love incarnate. May his noodly appendage strike you down!

62 webevintage  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:40:23am

re: #56 McSpiff

The great part is, they are reading this right now. And its just driving them that much more crazy. truly wonderful.

My question is why?
Why do they care?
Why not just move on to greener pastures and be happy with the other other ponies/lizards you find there. So much energy being wasted on so much nothing.

63 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:40:40am

re: #58 JasonA

Okay, then how about the other side of the argument? Throughout history Christianity hasn't been much more tolerant than other religions.

much more logical.

64 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:41:05am

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

How has the quitting thing gone for you?

65 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:41:56am

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

Because if cruelty was endemic, then using an endemic example as a point to frame one particular creed or color is silly. And i like to point out silly things.

You are a liar and a bigot. I did not in any way "frame" Christianity as a creed by citing this precedent. This related specifically to a group that burns Qurans. Is that the Christian creed to you? The generalization exists only in your bigoted mind.

66 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:42:22am

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

You are a liar and a bigot. I did not in any way "frame" Christianity as a creed by citing this precedent. This related specifically to a group that burns Qurans. Is that the Christian creed to you? The generalization exists only in your bigoted mind.

wow.

67 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:42:50am

re: #64 JasonA

How has the quitting thing gone for you?

I still have a pack in my desk drawer, but it is getting less and less visits. It sits next to a pack of gum, so most times, I opt for the gum.

One day at a time, one urge resisted at a time, and sometimes, I cave. But, I feel healthier already, after only a couple of weeks of less than 5 a day.

I am a weak, weak man.

68 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:43:13am

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

I wish people would stop acting so surprised at this shit. It is nothing new. It has been this way in the US since Salem, and it will continue.

Fear of the other is a cornerstone of Americana, and I find it astounding that people are continually surprised by it. Don't you all have some crazy uncle or relative that spouts off hateful bigotry? Haven't you heard the old guys at the bar talk about how "the n*** are ruining everything"?

Don't be surprised either when it gets much, much worse, because it will. This is nothing new. This is who we are as a nation. We managed to beat it back under rocks for nearly a generation, for it to pupate and metastasize into a new form, but it was never gone. We just managed to form, for a brief time, a national discourse where people were shamed for expressing bigotry in public. That's falling apart now. The pushback against the civil rights movement has gained enough strength that it no longer needs to hide.

Don't fool yourself into thinking it was ever really gone.

It will never completely go, because it's in our brain stems as well as our history. We'll have to beat it back every generation--that's the war, and I'm reconciled to it.

69 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:43:27am

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

I wish people would stop acting so surprised at this shit. It is nothing new. It has been this way in the US since Salem, and it will continue.

Fear of the other is a cornerstone of Americana, and I find it astounding that people are continually surprised by it. Don't you all have some crazy uncle or relative that spouts off hateful bigotry? Haven't you heard the old guys at the bar talk about how "the n*** are ruining everything"?

Don't be surprised either when it gets much, much worse, because it will. This is nothing new. This is who we are as a nation. We managed to beat it back under rocks for nearly a generation, for it to pupate and metastasize into a new form, but it was never gone. We just managed to form, for a brief time, a national discourse where people were shamed for expressing bigotry in public. That's falling apart now. The pushback against the civil rights movement has gained enough strength that it no longer needs to hide.

Don't fool yourself into thinking it was ever really gone.

"Why must you drag my sunny disposition through the cloudy mud?"
///

70 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:43:38am

re: #67 Fozzie Bear

Weak man? I don't want to know what that makes me and my pack-a-day habit...

71 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:44:37am

re: #70 JasonA

Weak man? I don't want to know what that makes me and my pack-a-day habit...

You're just not yet sufficiently terrified of what it leads to. You'll get there.

72 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:46:07am

re: #60 Aceofwhat?

no. you can be unfair if you want. but it seems a little like damning ancient Rome because they ate meat...so did everyone else. if that had been your post, i'd still have rolled my eyes and said something.

What was I damning in that post? Where is the general attack on Christianity to which you are obviously responding?

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:46:20am

Meanwhile, some are just now getting a clue:

Despite the facts being out about Pat Condell's anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian views, many self-described "anti-Jihadists" like Pamela Geller (Atlas Shrugs), David Horowitz (FrontPageMag, NewsRealBlog, Terrorism Awareness Project, Discover the Networks) and Robert Spencer (JihadWatch) in the "pro-Israel" blogosphere continue to promote and celebrate him. Why is this happening?

They thank D. Schlussel, of all people, for being the lone voice in the wilderness against this. Farther down the post over there, they say

Be careful which sites you visit, which causes you fund, and who you promote. Some people may look Kosher, but if you scratch beneath the surface it becomes very difficult to know who to trust.

Seems they just started on this course themselves....

74 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:46:59am

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

You are a liar and a bigot. I did not in any way "frame" Christianity as a creed by citing this precedent. This related specifically to a group that burns Qurans. Is that the Christian creed to you? The generalization exists only in your bigoted mind.

it's one thing to say that i was mistaken; that would be a fair objection. what you've said, on the other hand, is both untrue and unworthy of this blog.

i'm going upthread. i have no desire to further engage you, except to say that i did not intentionally distort your post, and that i am sorry if you felt otherwise, because such was my intention.

enjoy soaking in your bile. it sounds like fun. gone upstairs>

75 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:47:35am

re: #74 Aceofwhat?

pimf

such was not my intention

sorry

76 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:47:40am

re: #59 Fozzie Bear

"Fear of the other is a cornerstone of Americana....."

Ah, no. Not the kind of people - Americans - that I hang with or my family would support.

Some in the U.S. thinking like this? Sure.
A cornerstone of our country? No.

77 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:50:16am

re: #76 Ericus58

"Fear of the other is a cornerstone of Americana..."

Ah, no. Not the kind of people - Americans - that I hang with or my family would support.

Some in the U.S. thinking like this? Sure.
A cornerstone of our country? No.

You ignore our long shared history of hatred and bigotry at your peril. You can say "no true Scotsman" until you are blue in the face. That doesn't change the proof that is repeated here on this blog and elsewhere, day in and day out.

78 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:50:44am

re: #31 Cato the Elder

Some of these people actually believe that the KJV Bible is the only holy text ever written. To include the Hebrew and Greek "originals" (don't get me started on Biblical textual criticism, please!), which were rife with errors that the God-inspired English translators fixed, once and for all!

I remember when GW Bush was asked if he supported posting the Ten Commandments in public buildings. He said he did. Then some smart-ass journalist (one who obviously had studied a few semesters of comparative religion or linguistics) asked him which translation should be used.

"The standard one," Bush replied without clarifying. But I suspect I know what he had in mind....

79 Locker  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:55:10am

re: #36 wrenchwench

There were a ton of flounces by Geller supporters. For a while every anti-Geller post brought out more. It started somewhere around here. There are still a few registered, I'm sure. If we're lucky, we'll get to see a fresh flounce in this thread!

Thanks for the reference. This marker is before my registration so it's rather interesting to see the contrast between "then" and "now" at LGF.

80 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:55:49am

re: #79 Locker

Thanks for the reference. This marker is before my registration so it's rather interesting to see the contrast between "then" and "now" at LGF.

Almost like night and day.

81 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:56:40am

I joined this site to argue with conservatives. Now conservatives argue with me...

82 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 10:57:04am

re: #79 Locker

Thanks for the reference. This marker is before my registration so it's rather interesting to see the contrast between "then" and "now" at LGF.

There's still plenty of holdovers. They get by by changing the subject, equivocating, and generally muddying the water. They'll flounce one at a time over time.

83 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 11:00:12am

I joined the site because you could actually find conservatives who had cogent, rational arguments, ones who made you re-think your own arguments and assumptions.

But we have seen that civil discourse is a dying art in this polarized nation, its blogosphere and media, not to mention its town hall meetings, political caucuses and comic book conventions.

84 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 11:05:04am

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

Because if cruelty was endemic, then using an endemic example as a point to frame one particular creed or color is silly. And i like to point out silly things.

That's not what he did, though.

I don't think it's right to call you a liar and a bigot, but your response to his post made absolutely no sense. He did not single out Christianity to attack.

85 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 11:31:41am

re: #84 Obdicut

That's not what he did, though.

I don't think it's right to call you a liar and a bigot, but your response to his post made absolutely no sense. He did not single out Christianity to attack.

that's fine. i'm open to the fact that i may have made a mistake - hell, you tell me that 3 times per day!

but the rest of it...eh. generally i'm not one to back down from a verbal confrontation, but i think that discretion is the better part of valor right now until Charles tells us that we've done a better job of keeping the squabbling to a minimum.

we have actual battles to fight...no need to fight here.

btw, your wedding pics were awesome.

86 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 11:48:45am

I think of lot of people are just angry in general these days, mainly due to the lingering recession and their own financial and/or family situations.

These conservative movements have found a way to tap into and channel that anger to further normalize attitudes of racism and bigotry.

What is really funny to me is that they are taking these steps to apparently protect America from future potential homegrown terrorists, but they believe somehow mocking and (literally) pissing all over the religion of Islam is supposed to make real radicals LESS inclined to launch attacks against our country?

These people are making America more dangerous.

87 simoom  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 12:03:10pm

Now that even Newt Gingrich has joined in the idiocy it will be interesting if to see if any of the GOP 2012 hopefuls choose our country's most basic ideals over the current political expediency of open hostility to American Muslims.

Newt Gingrich Statement on the Proposed “Cordoba House” Mosque near Ground Zero

His use of this old rhetorical chestnut is particularly idiotic:

There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.
...
Those Islamists and their apologists who argue for "religious toleration" are arrogantly dishonest. They ignore the fact that more than 100 mosques already exist in New York City. Meanwhile, there are no churches or synagogues in all of Saudi Arabia. In fact no Christian or Jew can even enter Mecca.
...
If the people behind the Cordoba House were serious about religious toleration, they would be imploring the Saudis, as fellow Muslims, to immediately open up Mecca to all and immediately announce their intention to allow non-Muslim houses of worship in the Kingdom. They should be asked by the news media if they would be willing to lead such a campaign.

Shorter Gingrich, "US Constitution Free Exercise Clause should be subject to de facto Saudi veto."

88 calochortus  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 12:11:18pm

I suspect a part of the problem here is that a fair number of people don't think there is anything wrong with a theocracy. In fact, its a great idea. They just want to be sure its their one true religion running things. That turns it into an us or them situation where we need to make sure "they" don't win. It also makes 'no churches in Saudi Arabia' argument valid. "They" have a country. Why don't "we".

89 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 12:23:20pm
90 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jul 23, 2010 3:00:22pm

re: #89 Romantic Heretic

One is reminded of that famous little toad, Screwtape.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 37 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
Yesterday
Views: 92 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1