Earlier this week we had a post about the Dove World Outreach Center and their “International Burn A Quran Day;” here’s the pastor of this “nondenominational” church, Terry Jones, on the Rick Sanchez show: Church plans Quran-burning event.
(By the way, is anyone at CNN ever going to notice that the aspect ratio of their web videos is too wide?)
1 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:51:48pm |
After this and the previous thread, I am now firmly in the corner of global warming, plague, pestilence, atom bombs, and giant meteorites blowing up the planet.
Something has to put the human race out of its misery.
| 2 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:52:30pm |
The Koran is printed on paper. Paper is made from trees. They burn and hurt the environment. Why do these people hate the environment?
| 3 |
bratwurst Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:52:34pm |
It takes a guy as lame as this pastor for Rick Sanchez not to be the biggest blowhard on the screen.
| 4 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:53:14pm |
"Outreach" doesn't mean what they think it means...
| 5 |
Irenicum Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:53:15pm |
I think I'll stick with the Terry Jones of Monty Python thank you very much. This guy is a raving looney tune.
| 6 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:53:21pm |
re: #1 Cato the Elder
After this and the previous thread, I am now firmly in the corner of global warming, plague, pestilence, atom bombs, and giant meteorites blowing up the planet.
Something has to put the human race out of its misery.
I vote for plague.
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:53:38pm |
That man doesn't deserve the name Terry Jones, does he have any idea what he's doing to my child like enjoyment of Monty Python?
| 8 |
Irenicum Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:55:09pm |
And I'm guessing they really don't know what the "Dove" is supposed to represent do they? What an embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves Christian.
| 9 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:55:23pm |
| 10 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:56:10pm |
| 11 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:58:27pm |
| 12 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:59:24pm |
"We believe in doing unto others what they have every right to do to us if they were as nasty as we are."
| 13 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 12:59:46pm |
This man looks and sounds like a bourbon-soaked sergeant-major from the hellish back porch of an old Civil War Confederate retirees' home.
| 14 |
Lidane Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:01:09pm |
re: #8 Irenicum
What an embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves Christian.
Pretty much. I'm not even a Christian and these people make me want to grab the nearest Bible and smack them upside the head with it. Talk about missing the point entirely.
It's worth noting, BTW, that the largest Evangelical body here in the States has called on this group of wackos to cancel their Qur'an burning:
[Link: www.nae.net...]
I doubt these "Islam is of the devil" people will listen or see reason, but at the very least there are people who are rightly trying to stop them.
| 15 |
Irenicum Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:03:47pm |
re: #14 Lidane
These type of fundies would consider the NAE to be apostate. Believe me, anything less hating than them is considered to be non-Christian. Yeah, they are that crazy.
| 16 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:03:59pm |
re: #8 Irenicum
And I'm guessing they really don't know what the "Dove" is supposed to represent do they? What an embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves Christian.
Welcome to my world.
| 17 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:04:28pm |
re: #14 Lidane
Pretty much. I'm not even a Christian and these people make me want to grab the nearest Bible and smack them upside the head with it. Talk about missing the point entirely.
It's worth noting, BTW, that the largest Evangelical body here in the States has called on this group of wackos to cancel their Qur'an burning:
[Link: www.nae.net...]
I doubt these "Islam is of the devil" people will listen or see reason, but at the very least there are people who are rightly trying to stop them.
Would anyone seriously suggest that these hateful book-burners are within a country mile of the religious or political mainstream?
| 18 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:04:28pm |
I think the Dove World Outreach Center is looking to compete with the WBC.
No Homo Mayor Protest, August 2, 2010, City Hall
What is homosexuality? Detestable, indecent, wicked, offensive, perverted, shameful, unnatural, degrading, impure, futile, foolish, godless, dishonorable, a lie.No Homo Mayor Protest, August 2, 2010, 12 noon - 2 pm, City Hall, Gainesville FL
| 20 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:06:30pm |
re: #18 JasonA
I think the Dove World Outreach Center is looking to compete with the WBC.
God hates...Well everyone. Sinners!!
| 21 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:07:44pm |
re: #17 Spare O'Lake
Would anyone seriously suggest that these hateful book-burners are within a country mile of the religious or political mainstream?
Yes.
| 22 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:08:06pm |
re: #17 Spare O'Lake
Would anyone seriously suggest that these hateful book-burners are within a country mile of the religious or political mainstream?
Not sure, but they're mere inches from Pamz and Bobby's full-bore Islam Hate Machine, which is being mainstreamed more and more every single day.
| 23 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:09:24pm |
This is a current hot-button issue & there's nothing to match it.
| 24 |
Irenicum Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:10:47pm |
re: #17 Spare O'Lake
As far as churches in America are concerned this group represents about 1/100th of 1 percent of American Christianity. So thankfully no, they most certainly do not represent the religious mainstream. But they do make for good news stories and great ratings.
| 25 |
Lidane Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:13:46pm |
re: #17 Spare O'Lake
Would anyone seriously suggest that these hateful book-burners are within a country mile of the religious or political mainstream?
Maybe not in action, but in belief? Sure, some people would absolutely suggest that these wackos are within a country mile of the religious or political mainstream.
Just look at all the crap spewed over the Park51 project, even by mainstream politicians and groups. Look at all the heated rhetoric that has come from the far right since 9/11, and which has become more open and more outrageous since Obama took office. It's not that far of a stretch for someone to look at all of that and make the assumption that everyone on the right, or everyone who calls themselves a Christian feels that way.
Is that right, or fair? Of course not. But that's what happens. It's why groups like the NAE have taken pains to call on these wackos to cancel their Qur'an burning. They know that to the wrong people, it will be used as a propaganda victory to make it look like allAmericans or all Christians feel the same way.
| 27 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:16:21pm |
I'm surprised they didn't go for the easy extra insult and mention they would be roasting sausages over the bonfire.
| 28 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:16:35pm |
re: #21 Walter L. Newton
re: #22 Cato the Elder
Call me an ignorant polyannish canuck, but I just can't believe that these views represent anything but a tiny lunatic fringe. I suppose the best measure of their popularity is to consider the size of their own membership, and also to gauge the reactions of other religious and political groups.
| 30 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:19:13pm |
re: #13 Cato the Elder
This man looks and sounds like a bourbon-soaked sergeant-major from the hellish back porch of an old Civil War Confederate retirees' home.
I can see him in that role, i can even imagine him wearing the forage cap.
| 31 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:20:24pm |
re: #28 Spare O'Lake
Let your fringes do the walking through the mellow pages.
| 32 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:21:00pm |
| 33 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:22:54pm |
re: #30 Dark_Falcon
I can see him in that role, i can even imagine him wearing the forage cap.
re: #13 Cato the Elder
This man looks and sounds like a bourbon-soaked sergeant-major from the hellish back porch of an old Civil War Confederate retirees' home.
With Breitbart as the General, R. McCain as the eager young lieutenant, and Pam as the mysterious camp-follower in stilleto heels and a fetishistic Victorian corset, we would have the whole command team.
| 34 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:25:07pm |
It's hard to get good jokes off of this stuff.
Damn.
| 35 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:25:16pm |
re: #28 Spare O'Lake
re: #22 Cato the Elder
Call me an ignorant polyannish canuck, but I just can't believe that these views represent anything but a tiny lunatic fringe. I suppose the best measure of their popularity is to consider the size of their own membership, and also to gauge the reactions of other religious and political groups.
I was being sarcastic. This is a fringe, and like any country, we have fringe, lots of them, each trying to out fringe each other, but them all together, the don't even make a good "Wingnut morning brigade" outrage. They usually get more press then they are worth... which I suspect is the whole idea.
| 36 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:28:59pm |
re: #35 Walter L. Newton
I was being sarcastic. This is a fringe, and like any country, we have fringe, lots of them, each trying to out fringe each other, but them all together, the don't even make a good "Wingnut morning brigade" outrage. They usually get more press then they are worth... which I suspect is the whole idea.
But they scurry with the fringe on top.
| 37 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:29:51pm |
re: #14 Lidane
Pretty much. I'm not even a Christian and these people make me want to grab the nearest Bible and smack them upside the head with it. Talk about missing the point entirely.
It's worth noting, BTW, that the largest Evangelical body here in the States has called on this group of wackos to cancel their Qur'an burning:
[Link: www.nae.net...]
I doubt these "Islam is of the devil" people will listen or see reason, but at the very least there are people who are rightly trying to stop them.
They won't listen, but it's very good that the normal Evangelical community is making a reasoned response. We approve.
| 38 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:30:56pm |
re: #18 JasonA
I think the Dove World Outreach Center is looking to compete with the WBC.
I keep thinking of that as "No homo, mayor."
"We love, ya, mayor. No homo, mayor."
| 39 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:31:04pm |
re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist
They won't listen, but it's very good that the normal Evangelical community is making a reasoned response. We approve.
Amen to that.
| 40 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:31:35pm |
| 41 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:32:02pm |
re: #27 oaktree
I'm surprised they didn't go for the easy extra insult and mention they would be roasting sausages over the bonfire.
This whole thing brings up a LOT of issues for the historically inclined Jew, yadadada mean?
| 42 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:32:44pm |
re: #40 Casual Talker
sorta like...
[Video]I kinda oughta sorta...
Precisely...our local community theatre just presented the show.
| 43 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:32:58pm |
re: #35 Walter L. Newton
I understood your brief yet pregnantly affirmative response.
| 44 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:33:35pm |
re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist
They won't listen, but it's very good that the normal Evangelical community is making a reasoned response. We approve.
Also, reading their response, they appear to have a passing acquaintance with the Gospels, and to understand Jesus a little better than the people who think of him as their crazy friend with the hunting rifle.
///
| 45 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:34:15pm |
re: #42 PT Barnum
Precisely...our local community theatre just presented the show.
Personal favorite. How was the production?
| 47 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:37:29pm |
| 48 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:38:08pm |
re: #45 Casual Talker
Personal favorite. How was the production?
I didn't go. Had a poker game the one night I might have attended.
| 49 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:38:56pm |
| 50 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:39:11pm |
| 51 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:39:21pm |
re: #49 Spare O'Lake
They went about as fur as they could go.
Leave off the bad puns, lest I pelt you with rocks and garbage.
| 52 |
engineer cat Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:41:02pm |
Church plans Quran-burning event.
i can't imagine why i would be such a horrible person that i would think of comparing some people to nazis... why would i do such an awful thing?...
| 53 |
cliffster Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:41:37pm |
It's finally hot in Central Texas. All summer long, it's been, "wow, it sure has been mild this summer" Finally, I'm miserable. It's about damn time.
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:43:57pm |
re: #49 Spare O'Lake
They went about as fur as they could go.
Not yet, they've burned books so far. When they go as they can go, they'll burn people instead.
| 55 |
cliffster Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:45:10pm |
re: #53 cliffster
I'm not gonna lie - I came here to stall on mowing the lawn in this ~100 degree heat. You guys are giving me nothing. C'mon, people.
| 56 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:45:26pm |
BBL - 7 1/2 hour shift (that's so they don't have to pay me for a second 15 minute break) and then a weird schedule this week. Sunday off (rare for low man on totem pole), just a four hour Monday shift, Tues. off, Wed. a 8 hour day shift (rare for low man on totem pole), A 4 hour shift on Thursday, Friday off (rare for low man on totem pole) and then a 6 hour or so shift on Sat.
No two days off together, but all other shifts more like shifts they would give a part timer with more seniority. They must like me.
Later folks.
| 57 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:46:00pm |
re: #55 cliffster
I'm not gonna lie - I came here to stall on mowing the lawn in this ~100 degree heat. You guys are giving me nothing. C'mon, people.
I'll be back at 10:15 mountain time... after work... we can talk. Does that help?
| 58 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:47:22pm |
re: #54 Dark_Falcon
Not yet, they've burned books so far. When they go as they can go, they'll burn people instead.
They'd like to, this crowd. Listen to their rhetoric, and you hear the echo of the Inquisition.
Unfortunately for them, they're stuck in a society of laws and reason, and it ain't going down without a fight.
Sucks to be them.
| 59 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:48:08pm |
re: #51 PT Barnum
Leave off the bad puns, lest I pelt you with rocks and garbage.
A penalty like that would be excessive unless I stole it.
| 60 |
cliffster Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:48:26pm |
re: #57 Walter L. Newton
I'll be back at 10:15 mountain time... after work... we can talk. Does that help?
I can't wait. Have fun manning the Point Of Sales post...
| 61 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:49:26pm |
I searched for episodes of Muslims, humanists (such as my humble self), or other infidel types burning Bibles as part of an organized demonstration in this country. I didn't find any but I did turn this up:
Pastor to Host Halloween Bible-Burning Event
A North Carolina pastor plans to host a Halloween event at his church to burn heretical books. At the top of the list — the Bible.
Pastor Marc Grizzard claims the King James version of the Bible is the only true word of God, and that all other versions are "satanic" and "perversions" of God's word.
On Halloween night, Grizzard and the 14 members of the Amazing Grace Baptist Church will set fire to other versions of the scripture, as well as music and books by Christian authors.
“We are burning books that we believe to be Satanic,” Pastor Grizzard said.
“I believe the King James version is God’s preserved, inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God… for English-speaking people."
| 62 |
engineer cat Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:52:32pm |
Pastor Marc Grizzard claims the King James version of the Bible is the only true word of God, and that all other versions are "satanic" and "perversions" of God's word
nah, the bible is better in the original norwegian
| 63 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:53:29pm |
re: #59 Spare O'Lake
A penalty like that would be excessive unless I stole it.
I will not tolerate any minky business.
| 64 |
McSpiff Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:53:42pm |
re: #61 Shiplord Kirel
Do they view literally everything as Good vs Evil magic? Its like they live in their own personal Narnia....
| 65 |
Mr. Crankypants Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:54:48pm |
re: #62 engineer dog
Pastor Marc Grizzard claims the King James version of the Bible is the only true word of God, and that all other versions are "satanic" and "perversions" of God's word
nah, the bible is better in the original norwegian
These people believe the King James is the only correct bible because it's the one Jesus used. I'd add the snark tag, but it's true.
| 66 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:56:09pm |
This retarded retrograde religion-school reject's line about "there may be moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam" is a direct quote from Robert Spencer, by the way.
Congratulations, Robert. When these people or their soul-mates move from burning books to starting pogroms against Muslims, you will be personally responsible. And the history books of the future will record your efforts as comparable to those of Julius Streicher. May your name stink forever in the nostrils of humanity.
| 67 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:56:54pm |
re: #61 Shiplord Kirel
I searched for episodes of Muslims, humanists (such as my humble self), or other infidel types burning Bibles as part of an organized demonstration in this country. I didn't find any but I did turn this up:
Ah, thanks for looking him up. I was remembering that event. I recall now wondering if the 'pastor' was related to Lewis Grizzard. I hope not, I LIKE Lewis Grizzard.
I continue to champion the KJV as a very beautiful translation, and exceptionally well-done for the material the team had to work with, but the idolatrous place it's been given by some American churches just puzzles me.
| 68 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:58:22pm |
re: #31 Ojoe
Let your fringes do the walking through the mellow pages.
"Get thee to the Fringes!"
- the Chrysalids, John Wyndham
| 69 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:58:37pm |
| 70 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:59:55pm |
re: #68 Spare O'Lake
OK
& I thought of an improvement —
Let your fringes do the squawking on the yellowed pages.
| 71 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 1:59:58pm |
re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist
They'd like to, this crowd. Listen to their rhetoric, and you hear the echo of the Inquisition.
Unfortunately for them, they're stuck in a society of laws and reason, and it ain't going down without a fight.
Sucks to be them.
Actually, they're worse than the Inquisition, at on a personal level. They have the inquisitors' zeal, but not his theological education, nor Catholicism's hierarchy to hold them back at times.
| 72 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:00:28pm |
Good Afternoon Lizards!
You will not believe who I had lunch with today..I am so honored...and blown away...I had lunch with John Snow and his wife today.. He is a bronze Star recipient and ex-Dean of OU Climate science dept.. I have never been so honored to buy lunch for someone...Jeez..I had lunch with an American hero..
My buddy here in Norman knows him and called me today to meet them for lunch..I am just effen blown away
| 73 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:01:01pm |
re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
Ah, thanks for looking him up. I was remembering that event. I recall now wondering if the 'pastor' was related to Lewis Grizzard. I hope not, I LIKE Lewis Grizzard.
I continue to champion the KJV as a very beautiful translation, and exceptionally well-done for the material the team had to work with, but the idolatrous place it's been given by some American churches just puzzles me.
What they did with the vav-ha-hippuch, so that practically every verse in some sections begins with "And" is a little annoying, but for what they did with the Psalms, I can put up with it.
| 74 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:01:18pm |
re: #65 PT Barnum
These people believe the King James is the only correct bible because it's the one Jesus used. I'd add the snark tag, but it's true.
That reminds me of the times people have asked me, 'But isn't Islam a Middle Eastern religion?" To which I respond, "Um, yeah. You DO realize Jesus wasn't born in Kansas, right?"
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:02:03pm |
re: #69 Ojoe
Muslims need bikinis
beer
etc
not things to complain about on "our" side.
Well, now there's the burqini.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:02:03pm |
re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
Ah, thanks for looking him up. I was remembering that event. I recall now wondering if the 'pastor' was related to Lewis Grizzard. I hope not, I LIKE Lewis Grizzard.
I continue to champion the KJV as a very beautiful translation, and exceptionally well-done for the material the team had to work with, but the idolatrous place it's been given by some American churches just puzzles me.
It's because they see it as not tainted by Catholicism, I think. Some these are old-school Protestants, who still liken the Roman Catholic Church to the Whore of Babylon.
| 77 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:03:14pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Actually, they're worse than the Inquisition, at on a personal level. They have the inquisitors' zeal, but not his theological education, nor Catholicism's hierarchy to hold them back at times.
True. The DIY quality of American Protestantism does give this a rather unique spin.
| 78 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:03:25pm |
re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist
KJ is pretty much the English of Shakespeare.
King James' mom was Mary Queen of Scotts, whose head was chopped off.
Then KJ inherited the throne from QE I, who had ordered his mom's head off.
What times were those!
| 79 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:04:07pm |
| 80 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:06:02pm |
re: #74 CuriousLurker
That reminds me of the times people have asked me, 'But isn't Islam a Middle Eastern religion?" To which I respond, "Um, yeah. You DO realize Jesus wasn't born in Kansas, right?"
Ask the Bosniaks.
| 81 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:06:40pm |
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:06:44pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
It's because they see it as not tainted by Catholicism, I think. Some these are old-school Protestants, who still liken the Roman Catholic Church to the Whore of Babylon.
Oh yeah.
But why not use a good modern Protestant translation, then?
| 83 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:06:57pm |
| 84 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:08:03pm |
re: #78 Ojoe
KJ is pretty much the English of Shakespeare.
King James' mom was Mary Queen of Scotts, whose head was chopped off.
Then KJ inherited the throne from QE I, who had ordered his mom's head off.
What times were those!
I personally like the use of the KJV, since I've found that kids whose church favors it are far more likely to be comfortable with Shakespeare. But that's just an English teacher's perspective...and I don't use the KJV in religion class.
| 85 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:08:39pm |
| 86 |
bigred1961 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:09:24pm |
If Terry Jones had any guts he would get a big 'ol stack of Qurans and fly to Saudi Arabia or Iran and burn them there!Now that's making a statement!
| 87 |
William of Orange Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:13:13pm |
Well, Ilive in the Nehterlands and yes, I can tell you; Sharia law is a bitch!
(As if Sharia law could ever be the law over here. What a shortsighted sack of shit!)
| 88 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:14:01pm |
re: #86 bigred1961
If Terry Jones had any guts he would get a big 'ol stack of Qurans and fly to Saudi Arabia or Iran and burn them there!Now that's making a statement!
The Irish used to be jealous, back in the early Middle Ages, that they didn't have enough martyrs...the Christianizing of Ireland went very smoothly, with minimal conflict, and no one got eaten by lions.
So they came up with various ways to martyr yourself anyway, one of them being to get into a boat, let the tide take you where it would, and begin to teach the Gospel wherever you showed up.
I think this would be rather similar. Except it would be, hopefully, caught on tape.
| 89 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:14:03pm |
Going back to my Saturday chores now—take care, Lizards.
| 90 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:15:03pm |
re: #78 Ojoe
KJ is pretty much the English of Shakespeare.
Actually, the Geneva Bible which preceded the KJV by half a century is the more influential translation in terms of authors:
The Geneva Bible is one of the most historically significant translations of the Bible into the English language, preceding the King James translation by 51 years. It was the primary Bible of the 16th century Protestant movement and was the Bible used by William Shakespeare, Oliver Cromwell, John Milton, John Knox, John Donne, and John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress. It was one of the Bibles taken to America on the Mayflower, it was used by many English Dissenters, and it was still respected by Oliver Cromwell's soldiers at the time of the English Civil War.
| 91 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:18:54pm |
re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar
The Koran is printed on paper. Paper is made from trees. They burn and hurt the environment. Why do these people hate the environment?
Doesn't matter if Jesus is going to return...
| 92 |
Crimsonfisted Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:21:26pm |
re: #23 Ojoe
This is a current hot-button issue & there's nothing to match it.
haha. I get it. Good one.
| 93 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:25:28pm |
Wow. What if a bunch of Hamas loving Muslims got together and decided to torch dozens of the KJV Bible at a mosque, and then video cast it across the Internets? Imagine the frothing at the mouth rage that would spew forth. That aside though, where on Earth is sharia law being imposed in these United States? I know, rhetorical question.
| 94 |
William of Orange Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:27:38pm |
Glenn Beck stands to lose another sugar daddy!
Rep Anthony Wiener (NY9) is on a roll!
Congress Formally Opens Investigation into Goldline & Other Shady Gold Dealers.
Google seatch about the warm relationship between Beck and Goldline.
| 95 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:27:58pm |
re: #93 eclectic infidel
Wow. What if a bunch of Hamas loving Muslims got together and decided to torch dozens of the KJV Bible at a mosque, and then video cast it across the Internets? Imagine the frothing at the mouth rage that would spew forth. That aside though, where on Earth is sharia law being imposed in these United States? I know, rhetorical question.
Don't you just hate rhetorical questions?
/
| 96 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:30:52pm |
re: #64 McSpiff
Do they view literally everything as Good vs Evil magic? Its like they live in their own personal Narnia...
Pretty much so.
Words and names are talismans to these people. Many years ago, I knew a self-educated preacher who ran a hole-in-wall bookshop down the street from my apartment.
One day, I was walking to class when I noticed him standing on the sidewalk in front of his store. He was gesticulating and chanting. I asked him what he was doing. He said it was a desperate emergency, Satan was physically present, and he, the preacher, was casting him out.
I didn't see any devils or dragons around, so I naturally asked, "Where?"
He became agitated and started pointing at a car in the space in front of us.
"Don't you see? DON'T YOU SEE!?" he declaimed. I shook my head mutely. In exasperation, he pointed to the car's nameplate, taking car not to touch it. It was a Dodge Demon.
About that time, the Demon's driver (or is it keeper?) came along and drove away, so I guess the exorcism worked.
| 97 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:31:40pm |
(By the way, is anyone at CNN ever going to notice that the aspect ratio of their web videos is too wide?)
I prefer my talking heads to be vertically squished.
| 98 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:32:36pm |
re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist
She was afraid to come out of the wadi,
She was afraid that her father would see,
She was afraid to come out of the wadi,
Oh the poor little girl's gotta flee.It was an itsy bitsy teenie weenie
Yellow polka dot burquini
That she wore for the first time today
An itsy bitsy teenie weenie
Yellow polka dot burquini
So in the wadi she just had to stay.
| 99 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:34:02pm |
re: #96 Shiplord Kirel
Pretty much so.
Words and names are talismans to these people. Many years ago, I knew a self-educated preacher who ran a hole-in-wall bookshop down the street from my apartment.
One day, I was walking to class when I noticed him standing on the sidewalk in front of his store. He was gesticulating and chanting. I asked him what he was doing. He said it was a desperate emergency, Satan was physically present, and he, the preacher, was casting him out.
I didn't see any devils or dragons around, so I naturally asked, "Where?"
He became agitated and started pointing at a car in the space in front of us.
"Don't you see? DON'T YOU SEE!?" he declaimed. I shook my head mutely. In exasperation, he pointed to the car's nameplate, taking car not to touch it. It was a Dodge Demon.
About that time, the Demon's driver (or is it keeper?) came along and drove away, so I guess the exorcism worked.
Awesome! My very FIRST car I ever owned was a Dodge Demon! I remember it having a little demon emblem on the inside of the driver's door. Yay!!!!! It eventually was severely damaged in a car accident but it kept my passenger and I quite safe.
| 100 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:34:05pm |
re: #93 eclectic infidel
Wow. What if a bunch of Hamas loving Muslims got together and decided to torch dozens of the KJV Bible at a mosque, and then video cast it across the Internets? Imagine the frothing at the mouth rage that would spew forth. That aside though, where on Earth is sharia law being imposed in these United States? I know, rhetorical question.
Sharia is threatening for exactly the reason halacha has been threatening. Anyone living by an independent religious code is, sooner or later, suspected of conniving to enforce it upon the majority, and of following it in lieu of the law of the land.
And for anyone who's planning to tell me how sharia and halacha are two totally different things, and it's totally different, you are totally mistaken.
| 101 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:34:19pm |
re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist
Did you ever read How the Irish Saved Civilization by Cahill? Excellent book.
| 102 |
Amory Blaine Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:34:59pm |
How can he say he likes Muslims when the principle book guiding their ideology is as he says, a book of hate?
| 103 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:35:50pm |
re: #101 Ojoe
Did you ever read How the Irish Saved Civilization by Cahill? Excellent book.
Yes! Very fun read.
| 104 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:36:13pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
How can he say he likes Muslims when the principle book guiding their ideology is as he says, a book of hate?
He likes Muslims in potentia, for the Christians they could be once he fixes them.
| 105 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:36:31pm |
re: #96 Shiplord Kirel
Better ending:
...then all of a sudden, the Demon was hit by a Hyundai Santa Fe!"
/I think that's an improvement on my response last time you told that story. I'll keep working on it if you'll keep telling it. It's a good one.
| 106 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:37:00pm |
re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist
Sharia is threatening for exactly the reason halacha has been threatening. Anyone living by an independent religious code is, sooner or later, suspected of conniving to enforce it upon the majority, and of following it in lieu of the law of the land.
And for anyone who's planning to tell me how sharia and halacha are two totally different things, and it's totally different, you are totally mistaken.
So "halacha" is religious law based on ... Torah or Talmud or both? (I vaguely remember the North Beach Lizard talking about this at the coffeehouse in Oakland)
| 107 |
Virginia Plain Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:37:33pm |
The KJV is just a translation of the original Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament). And it has its share of mistakes, like all other translations.
| 108 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:37:34pm |
re: #94 William of Orange
Glenn Beck stands to lose another sugar daddy!
Rep Anthony Wiener (NY9) is on a roll!
Congress Formally Opens Investigation into Goldline & Other Shady Gold Dealers.
Google seatch about the warm relationship between Beck and Goldline.
Weiner's remarks yesterday left me unimpressed, but when it comes to Goldline I agree with him: The facts warrant an investigation. Sadly, I don't think Foxnews agrees with me. I just a got a look at two program episodes slated to respond to the investigation:
Judicial Watch with Judge Andrew Napolitano: Alex Jones on why the Weiner investigation is intended to justify shipping Goldline's buyers to FEMA camps.
Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace: Had to be pulled this week after Chris finally got sick of the BS long enough to lob a hardball question at Sarah Palin. It turned on to be impossible to edit around her drooling onto her signature red outfit when the question overloaded her brain.
Every thing in italics is just a joke, though not by much.
| 109 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:38:28pm |
re: #106 eclectic infidel
So "halacha" is religious law based on ... Torah or Talmud or both? (I vaguely remember the North Beach Lizard talking about this at the coffeehouse in Oakland)
Both, ultimately. The laws have root in the Torah, but the practices growing from it were codified in the Mishnah, which becomes the root of the Talmud.
| 110 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:39:59pm |
re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist
True. The DIY quality of American Protestantism does give this a rather unique spin.
My mom, lifelong Catholic that she was, would fault the Protestants for "private interpetaion of the Bible." She had a point there.
And, in 12 years of Catholic school, (1956 - 1968) we never once read from the Bible, not even once. That was something Protestants did, so of course we would never do that.
| 111 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:40:45pm |
Bravo, Charles. There are some things that I advocate burning... but the Quran is not one of those things.
| 112 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:40:51pm |
re: #101 Ojoe
Did you ever read How the Irish Saved Civilization by Cahill? Excellent book.
God invented whiskey to keep the Irish from taking over the world.
| 114 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:43:55pm |
re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes! Very fun read.
Great description of Saint Patrick there. That guy was a man with a capital M.
| 115 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:44:02pm |
re: #61 Shiplord Kirel
I searched for episodes of Muslims, humanists (such as my humble self), or other infidel types burning Bibles as part of an organized demonstration in this country. I didn't find any but I did turn this up:
Yes, because Jesus spoke English. And nothing happened in the way of translation or interpretationto in the 1600 years between Christ and the Church of England producing an "authorized" version of the Bible.
Anglo-American exceptionalism carried to an absurd extreme.
| 116 |
William of Orange Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:45:47pm |
Here's another look at what ticked Anthony Wiener off when the GOP largely left 9-11 first-responders in the cold.
Wiener went ballistic and I fully understand why. I explained what happened in a previous post.
| 117 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:46:28pm |
re: #114 Ojoe
Great description of Saint Patrick there. That guy was a man with a capital M.
The early Irish saints are an astonishing lot.
| 118 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:47:30pm |
re: #61 Shiplord Kirel
I searched for episodes of Muslims, humanists (such as my humble self), or other infidel types burning Bibles as part of an organized demonstration in this country. I didn't find any but I did turn this up:
Wow.
I suppose this man has never stopped to contemplate that the English language didn't even exist when this stuff was first written down.
Secular Humanism FTW! I've decided I am going to be a Humanist evangelist. I'm not sure how it will work, but I'll iron out the details later.
| 119 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:48:22pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
Every thing in italics is just a joke, though not by much.
If you could pick the next prez, who would it be?
| 120 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:49:37pm |
| 121 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:50:23pm |
re: #118 Fozzie Bear
Wow.
I suppose this man has never stopped to contemplate that the English language didn't even exist when this stuff was first written down.
Secular Humanism FTW! I've decided I am going to be a Humanist evangelist. I'm not sure how it will work, but I'll iron out the details later.
You rush up to people and press copies of Plato on them?
| 122 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:50:31pm |
re: #118 Fozzie Bear
I've decided I am going to be a Humanist evangelist. I'm not sure how it will work, but I'll iron out the details later.
I imagine it could be difficult to convince some people to become Human.
| 123 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:50:43pm |
re: #119 Casual Talker
If you could pick the next prez, who would it be?
Jesus, riding a horse made of fire.
This game is easy.
| 124 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:50:48pm |
re: #120 HoosierHoops
Me...
*wink*
Hell, why not...... But in this galaxy, who would you like to see running this nation in 2012?
| 125 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:51:35pm |
re: #123 Fozzie Bear
Jesus, riding a horse made of fire.
This game is easy.
Perhaps I opened up the field a bit too much....
| 126 |
nines09 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:53:47pm |
"Yes. We are nondenominational. What? Oh after the Quran/Karon/Koran buning day we thought a stake burning would bring us right back to where we were about 600 or so years ago. Ain't God great?"Mohammed
| 127 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:54:11pm |
re: #123 Fozzie Bear
Jesus, riding a horse made of fire.
This game is easy.
What does the horse have to do with this? Does he have veto power?
| 128 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:55:13pm |
re: #127 JasonA
What does the horse have to do with this? Does he have veto power?
The horse IS the veto power. Nobody questions a deity riding a horse made of fire.
| 130 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:55:33pm |
re: #127 JasonA
What does the horse have to do with this? Does he have veto power?
It's a Trojan Hoosier Christo-horse.... and it doesn't need a stinkin' badge!
| 131 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:55:35pm |
(By the way, is anyone at CNN ever going to notice that the aspect ratio of their web videos is too wide?)
Having worked closely with TOC (Technical Operations Center) at CNN for the past 11 years, I can assure the answer will most likely be NO!
oh,, the tales I could tell!!!
| 132 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:55:51pm |
re: #124 Casual Talker
Hell, why not... But in this galaxy, who would you like to see running this nation in 2012?
Good question.. I'm that rare moderate that doesn't buy the bullshit from either extreme side..In 2006 I had never even heard of Obama...
Hard to say at this point who I will vote for in 2012
| 133 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:56:22pm |
re: #128 Fozzie Bear
The horse IS the veto power. Nobody questions a deity riding a horse made of fire.
Okay. But what happens if the horse is doused with water? Can the fire-elemental horse walk on water or something?
| 134 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:56:32pm |
This is getting to be a global embarrassment.
Australian story
This quotes some remarks pastor Jones made to AFP, so the French media are running with it too. I can only imagine what Muslim media will make of it.
Along with lynching and speaking in tongues, this is an aspect of southern culture that I am embarrassed for outsiders to see.
| 136 |
Linden Arden Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:56:57pm |
Why did Sanchez miss the obvious question - where is Sharia law being enforced in the USA?
Hell, Mosaic law is ignored here despite the millions of OT devotees who think the US Constitution was written with "Judeo-Christian" values in mind.
| 137 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:57:07pm |
re: #132 HoosierHoops
Good question.. I'm that rare moderate that doesn't buy the bullshit from either extreme side..In 2006 I had never even heard of Obama...
Hard to say at this point who I will vote for in 2012
Write in Kodos.
| 138 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:57:14pm |
re: #124 Casual Talker
Hell, why not... But in this galaxy, who would you like to see running this nation in 2012?
What does it matter
It will be the last year for us anyway (Mayan Calender iirc!!)
| 139 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:57:31pm |
re: #132 HoosierHoops
Good question.. I'm that rare moderate that doesn't buy the bullshit from either extreme side..In 2006 I had never even heard of Obama...
Hard to say at this point who I will vote for in 2012
Well, between you and me (and don't tell anyone here), I think the next candidate on the GOP side is not going to be one of the names that you are hearing about now. Just my opinion, and I could be wrong....
| 140 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:57:50pm |
re: #133 JasonA
Okay. But what happens if the horse is doused with water? Can the fire-elemental horse walk on water or something?
If doused with water, it becomes a horse made of magma, and of course it can walk on water, as it is Jesus' horse.
| 141 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:58:26pm |
re: #138 sattv4u2
What does it matter
It will be the last year for us anyway (Mayan Calender iirc!!)
It must be Biden then!
| 142 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:58:56pm |
re: #135 nines09
You keep posting the same link. The link is no good.
| 143 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 2:59:55pm |
re: #141 Casual Talker
It must be Biden then!
Nahh ,, he's going to open a Dunkin Donuts with Pakistani and Indian investors!
/
| 144 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:00:41pm |
| 145 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:01:21pm |
re: #139 Casual Talker
Well, between you and me (and don't tell anyone here), I think the next candidate on the GOP side is not going to be one of the names that you are hearing about now. Just my opinion, and I could be wrong...
Is that because you've got some other Republican in mind? Or just because the current field of names is filled exclusively with dipshits?
| 146 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:01:28pm |
re: #119 Casual Talker
If you could pick the next prez, who would it be?
At this point I'd still have to say Mitt Romney.
| 147 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:01:45pm |
| 148 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:02:26pm |
re: #143 sattv4u2
Ok, this is going to seem like a random observation, but...
All 6 of the Dunkin Donuts establishments in the area I live in are entirely staffed by Indians, at least at the times I have been there. There are not all that many Indians in the Lehigh Valley.
I have always wondered why.
(I have no problem with this, btw, it just begs an explanation.)
| 150 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:03:20pm |
re: #147 wrenchwench
Did you get the page with the big lizard?
nope ,, a story with the headline Church to burn copies of Koran to mark 9/11 from the "herald sun .com .au"
| 151 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:03:32pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
At this point I'd still have to say Mitt Romney.
Easily the most sane of the current gopers, and the one least likely to make liberals like me throw up.
But how on earth does he get over his liberal track record and prove to the party faithful that he is "one of them"?
| 152 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:04:01pm |
re: #119 Casual Talker
If you could pick the next prez, who would it be?
Grocho Marx
or even better, Harpo.
| 153 |
justaminute Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:04:14pm |
re: #72 HoosierHoops
Hi Hoops! Great story, maybe your friend came arrange for you to visit the National Weather Service based in Norman. Also go check out the Greek House on the corner of Boyd and Jenkins directly across from campus. It's great, run by a Greek couple that's been around since my husband and my college days. Might have to check and call them because sometimes in the summer they take off and go to Greece and close up shop. It's worth it.
| 154 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:04:49pm |
re: #152 Ojoe
Grocho Marx
or even better, Harpo.
Harpo, by a mustache, imo.
All of his executive orders would take the form of facial expressions, or shrugs.
| 155 |
nines09 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:04:49pm |
My bad thank you.This work?
I guess I am damaged in my own way. Thanks!
| 156 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:06:47pm |
re: #151 palomino
Easily the most sane of the current gopers, and the one least likely to make liberals like me throw up.
But how on earth does he get over his liberal track record and prove to the party faithful that he is "one of them"?
Romney may be one of the most sane of the current GOP crop, but I think you are right. The GOP "base" hates the man, and he doesn't exactly appeal to liberals either. He strikes me as smarmy and inauthentic. The man is unelectable, even though he is probably one of the better choice in the GOP.
| 157 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:07:03pm |
re: #150 sattv4u2
nope ,, a story with the headline Church to burn copies of Koran to mark 9/11 from the "herald sun .com .au"
That was Shiplord's. I was responding to nines09. See above.
| 158 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:07:06pm |
| 159 |
Casual Talker Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:07:09pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
At this point I'd still have to say Mitt Romney.
I can't see him getting through the primary. There will be too much poo-flinging on him relative to healthcare for the GOP to accept him.
| 160 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:07:18pm |
re: #148 Fozzie Bear
Ok, this is going to seem like a random observation, but...
All 6 of the Dunkin Donuts establishments in the area I live in are entirely staffed by Indians, at least at the times I have been there. There are not all that many Indians in the Lehigh Valley.
I have always wondered why.
(I have no problem with this, btw, it just begs an explanation.)
Easy
A franchise like that as well as relatively inexpensive roadside motels have modest out of pocket start up costs and are owned/ operated almost entirely with family members. There's no tech training needed, no degrees and (in the case of a DD) almost a 100% cash business
Just like when any immigrant group 1st came here they would open up a family business, be it a restaurant, butcher shop, tailor, shoe repair, etc etc
It's just that a franchise like DD is more common nowadays than a butcher shop, etc
| 161 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:07:55pm |
re: #148 Fozzie Bear
Ok, this is going to seem like a random observation, but...
All 6 of the Dunkin Donuts establishments in the area I live in are entirely staffed by Indians, at least at the times I have been there. There are not all that many Indians in the Lehigh Valley.
I have always wondered why.
(I have no problem with this, btw, it just begs an explanation.)
My guess is that the local franchise owners are Indian immigrants and they are putting relatives on the payroll.
A while back, someone asked me why all the security guards in Lubbock seem to be Hispanic or black. Rather than point out that this wasn't actually true, I said that all the white people in Lubbock are either in college or too old to work.
| 162 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:08:41pm |
re: #151 palomino
Easily the most sane of the current gopers, and the one least likely to make liberals like me throw up.
But how on earth does he get over his liberal track record and prove to the party faithful that he is "one of them"?
same way McCain did, by picking a running mate to cover his right flank
| 163 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:10:19pm |
re: #162 sattv4u2
same way McCain did, by picking a running mate to cover his right flank
Exactly. The only way to be sane in the GOP and have any hope of winning elections is to run alongside somebody who has lost their marbles. Not good. Not good at all.
| 164 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:11:06pm |
re: #163 Fozzie Bear
The Modern Whig Party is better than the GOP, I think.
| 166 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:12:02pm |
Meanwhile, I continue to be fascinated by the story of the man who was supposed to be the oldest man in Tokyo, except it turns out he died thirty years ago.
| 167 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:12:29pm |
Quran-Burning Church Pastor: 'Islam is of the Devil'
Is there still doubt that Hitch was right that, "religion spoils everything".
| 168 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:12:37pm |
re: #164 Ojoe
The Modern Whig Party is better than the GOP, I think.
I admire your pugnacious dedication.
| 169 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:12:47pm |
re: #156 Fozzie Bear
Romney may be one of the most sane of the current GOP crop, but I think you are right. The GOP "base" hates the man, and he doesn't exactly appeal to liberals either. He strikes me as smarmy and inauthentic. The man is unelectable, even though he is probably one of the better choice in the GOP.
He's a political shapeshifter, switching his position of virtually everything: gays, guns, abortion, healthcare--and once the primaries start, you can probably add more to the list.
But he's not a firebreathing teabagging extremist like Gingrich and Palin. And he's not a simpleton like Huckabee. He's actually a serious problem solver, with a list of pragmatic achievments. He's the only Republican currently in the mix that I would even consider voting for.
| 170 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:12:59pm |
re: #164 Ojoe
The Modern Whig Party is better than the GOP, I think.
What's that you say? The Whig party? Tell me more :)
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:13:02pm |
re: #167 BryanS
Is there still doubt that Hitch was right that, "religion spoils everything".
Actually, yes. If it isn't religion it's some other damn thing.
| 172 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:13:21pm |
re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist
Meanwhile, I continue to be fascinated by the story of the man who was supposed to be the oldest man in Tokyo, except it turns out he died thirty years ago.
So old he was dead.
| 173 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:13:52pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, yes. If it isn't religion it's some other damn thing.
Although religion does seem to have played a role in Mr. Kato's peculiar afterlife. Apparently he told the family he was going to become a living Buddha, went into his room, and never came out.
| 174 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:13:56pm |
re: #168 Fozzie Bear
Thank you. Later the Whigs will be larger, & more people will think it is all right to join.
Now I gotta go work on the drafting board, BBL really.
| 175 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:14:28pm |
re: #169 palomino
He's a political shapeshifter, switching his position of virtually everything: gays, guns, abortion, healthcare--and once the primaries start, you can probably add more to the list.
But he's not a firebreathing teabagging extremist like Gingrich and Palin. And he's not a simpleton like Huckabee. He's actually a serious problem solver, with a list of pragmatic achievments. He's the only Republican currently in the mix that I would even consider voting for.
Problem with electing a mirror to higher office is they easily break.
| 176 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:15:09pm |
And political shapeshifters can be dangerous when placed in difficult circumstances.
| 177 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:15:15pm |
re: #162 sattv4u2
same way McCain did, by picking a running mate to cover his right flank
But that was AFTER Mac already had the nod. Romney needs to offer proof well before he gets to that point.
Sure, there had been apostasy from McCain, like working with Dems (ooh, Kennedy and Feingold) on bipartisan bills.
BUT he's always been on the right side of choice, guns, gays and he's a war hero. Romney's got a lot more to prove.
| 178 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:16:10pm |
re: #164 Ojoe
The Modern Whig Party is better than the GOP, I think.
Most drunken beach parties are better than the current GOP.
| 179 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:16:13pm |
re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist
Although religion does seem to have played a role in Mr. Kato's peculiar afterlife. Apparently he told the family he was going to become a living Buddha, went into his room, and never came out.
And thirty years later....now that's faith!
| 180 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:16:40pm |
re: #175 BryanS
Problem with electing a mirror to higher office is they easily break.
I would certainly take Romney over a Gingrich or a Palin.
Who the GOP wants to run is going to depend a lot on what happens in the midterms, and if it looks as though Obama is actually vulnerable on his second run.
| 181 |
Linden Arden Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:16:51pm |
The headline crop of GOPers is so bad that Washington party insiders are trying to recruit John Thune and build his story up before 2012.
| 182 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:17:04pm |
I think it's time for polytheism to make a comeback. As an atheist, I would find it preferable.
| 183 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:17:31pm |
re: #163 Fozzie Bear
Exactly. The only way to be sane in the GOP and have any hope of winning elections is to run alongside somebody who has lost their marbles. Not good. Not good at all.
Please
It's same as it ever was
It's been going on for decades
Why do you think Obama picked Biden? To cover the flack that Obama was getting that he wasn't seasoned enough esp. re: foreign policy
Kennedy picked Johnson to cover the for Kennedys youth and protect him in the south
etc etc
| 184 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:18:03pm |
re: #179 BryanS
And thirty years later...now that's faith!
The granddaughter told the officials that Grandpa was a scary man, so they couldn't open the door.
William Faulkner could have had a field day with this, there's something very "Rose for Emily" and Southern Gothic about it.
| 185 |
justaminute Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:18:27pm |
re: #161 Shiplord Kirel
From what I read, are you from Lubbock? I started out my college career at Texas Tech. We started out our restaurant career in Plainview. I drove back and forth every day. So boring.
| 186 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:18:45pm |
re: #183 sattv4u2
Please
It's same as it ever was
It's been going on for decades
Why do you think Obama picked Biden? To cover the flack that Obama was getting that he wasn't seasoned enough esp. re: foreign policy
Kennedy picked Johnson to cover the for Kennedys youth and protect him in the southetc etc
Not really the same thing. People have always recruited running mates to fill out their portfolio of available knowledge. That's not the same thing as picking a running mate because you aren't delusional enough to appeal to your base.
| 187 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:19:23pm |
re: #177 palomino
But that was AFTER Mac already had the nod. Romney needs to offer proof well before he gets to that point.
Sure, there had been apostasy from McCain, like working with Dems (ooh, Kennedy and Feingold) on bipartisan bills.
BUT he's always been on the right side of choice, guns, gays and he's a war hero. Romney's got a lot more to prove.
From sources I still have back in Boston, Romney is meeting daily with GOP power brokers to ensure them he's "right" enough
| 188 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:19:52pm |
re: #167 BryanS
Is there still doubt that Hitch was right that, "religion spoils everything".
Yes, there is doubt. Are you saying that without religion we'd be living in some kind of utopia?
Right.
| 189 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:20:11pm |
re: #187 sattv4u2
From sources I still have back in Boston, Romney is meeting daily with GOP power brokers to ensure them he's "right" enough
I imagine he probably is. But, he's undoubtedly not the only major player doing such things.
| 190 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:20:17pm |
re: #182 Fozzie Bear
I think it's time for polytheism to make a comeback. As an atheist, I would find it preferable.
I know some polytheists.
| 191 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:20:38pm |
re: #183 sattv4u2
Please
It's same as it ever was
It's been going on for decades
Why do you think Obama picked Biden? To cover the flack that Obama was getting that he wasn't seasoned enough esp. re: foreign policy
Kennedy picked Johnson to cover the for Kennedys youth and protect him in the southetc etc
That's all totally true. But the last time it really worked was JFK with LBJ. Kennedy probably couldn't have won TX (predominantly Protestant and white back then) without Johnson, meaning tricky dick would have been president even earlier in his life--with more time to screw things up.
But the veep choice hasn't really been a decisive factor in an election since then.
| 192 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:20:46pm |
re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist
I would certainly take Romney over a Gingrich or a Palin.
Who the GOP wants to run is going to depend a lot on what happens in the midterms, and if it looks as though Obama is actually vulnerable on his second run.
Romney is the conservative version of Al Gore fakery combined with John Kerry "flexibility" on issues as needed to get elected .
| 193 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:21:27pm |
re: #186 Fozzie Bear
Not really the same thing. People have always recruited running mates to fill out their portfolio of available knowledge. That's not the same thing as picking a running mate because you aren't delusional enough to appeal to your base.
incorrect
George H.W. Bush did NOT appeal to the conservative base, hence Dan Quayle
Need I show more?
| 194 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:21:32pm |
re: #186 Fozzie Bear
Not really the same thing. People have always recruited running mates to fill out their portfolio of available knowledge. That's not the same thing as picking a running mate because you aren't delusional enough to appeal to your base.
I think if McCain were nominated for anything by the Republicans now, he could qualify as delusional enough.
He's come a long way in a short time.
| 195 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:21:45pm |
Flack is not what you get when you're over the target.
That would be flak, Sat.
| 196 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:21:53pm |
re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist
I know some polytheists.
I know there are a few. I just want to see a comeback of public appeals to specific deities, and blasphemous expletives that utilize the plural.
Ancient Rome was on to something.
| 197 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:22:12pm |
re: #183 sattv4u2
Please
It's same as it ever was
It's been going on for decades
Why do you think Obama picked Biden? To cover the flack that Obama was getting that he wasn't seasoned enough esp. re: foreign policy
Kennedy picked Johnson to cover the for Kennedys youth and protect him in the southetc etc
Well, yes, but Biden and Johnson may have/have had their flaws, but they're not insane. Palin...
Everyone picks a VP candidate to cover for their flaws, but if Romney has to pick a downright nut...
| 198 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:22:34pm |
| 199 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:22:46pm |
re: #181 Linden Arden
The headline crop of GOPers is so bad that Washington party insiders are trying to recruit John Thune and build his story up before 2012.
It'll be a governor if Obama looks vulnerable. Governor Christy could be an interesting choice--but look out for Barbour to throw his hat in the ring.
| 200 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:22:47pm |
re: #191 palomino
That's all totally true. But the last time it really worked was JFK with LBJ. Kennedy probably couldn't have won TX (predominantly Protestant and white back then) without Johnson, meaning tricky dick would have been president even earlier in his life--with more time to screw things up.
But the veep choice hasn't really been a decisive factor in an election since then.
That wasn;t the question (whether the VP was a deciding factor)
What WAS on the table is how the Pres candidate can appeal to the base, IF said candidate is deemed to centrist
| 201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:23:07pm |
re: #192 BryanS
Romney is the conservative version of Al Gore fakery combined with John Kerry "flexibility" on issues as needed to get elected .
Like I said, I'd take a Romney over a Gingrich or a Palin...
| 202 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:23:15pm |
re: #195 Cato the Elder
Flack is not what you get when you're over the target.
That would be flak, Sat.
thanks ,,, fat thumbed it
| 203 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:23:37pm |
re: #187 sattv4u2
From sources I still have back in Boston, Romney is meeting daily with GOP power brokers to ensure them he's "right" enough
He'd better. What other chance does he have to get the nod? He's not exactly the favorite of tea partiers or evangelicals or social conservatives. He has to go the establishment route.
And if the gop power brokers he's meeting with are located in Boston, he's gonna have to branch out. MA is not exactly where the gop nomination will be won or lost.
| 204 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:23:50pm |
re: #193 sattv4u2
incorrect
George H.W. Bush did NOT appeal to the conservative base, hence Dan Quayle
Need I show more?
'Conservative base' in the late eighties meant something very different from 'conservative base' right now.
| 205 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:24:24pm |
re: #188 Cato the Elder
Yes, there is doubt. Are you saying that without religion we'd be living in some kind of utopia?
Right.
Nope. Just saying religion spoils everything.
| 206 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:24:26pm |
re: #196 Fozzie Bear
I know there are a few. I just want to see a comeback of public appeals to specific deities, and blasphemous expletives that utilize the plural.
Ancient Rome was on to something.
Well, the Jews did well with Julian the Apostate, so, what the hell.
| 207 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:24:38pm |
re: #193 sattv4u2
incorrect
George H.W. Bush did NOT appeal to the conservative base, hence Dan Quayle
Need I show more?
The GOP wasn't off the rails at that time.
| 208 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:25:03pm |
re: #198 wrenchwench
I'm a polyatheist.
I just decided that.
Fair enough.
Reminds me of the line about the Deists--"One God at the very most."
| 209 |
palomino Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:25:03pm |
re: #200 sattv4u2
That wasn;t the question (whether the VP was a deciding factor)
What WAS on the table is how the Pres candidate can appeal to the base, IF said candidate is deemed to centrist
Problem is he has to appeal to them BEFORE the veep choice becomes an issue. Primaries start in Jan; veep gets chosen in August.
| 210 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:25:19pm |
re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist
'Conservative base' in the late eighties meant something very different from 'conservative base' right now.
yes, but both sides tides have shifted
Hell, today Kennedy would not be embraced by the liberal "base", not with his tax cuts/ stronger military stances
| 211 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:25:49pm |
re: #198 wrenchwench
I'm a polyatheist.
I just decided that.
We're all polyatheists with regards to everyone else's religion :)
| 212 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:25:52pm |
| 213 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:26:39pm |
re: #210 sattv4u2
yes, but both sides tides have shifted
Hell, today Kennedy would not be embraced by the liberal "base", not with his tax cuts/ stronger military stances
It's relative to the times. Kennedy cut taxes at a time when the top bracket was more than double what it is today. At present, they are lower than they have been in nearly 100 years.
| 214 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:26:48pm |
re: #205 BryanS
Nope. Just saying religion spoils everything.
No. Religion spoils some things. Political ideologies spoil others. Then, there's natural disasters, and lack of refrigeration.
| 216 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:28:09pm |
re: #212 sattv4u2
Again, that wasn't the question
It wasn't a question, it was a comment, with which you disagreed.
re: #163 Fozzie Bear
Exactly. The only way to be sane in the GOP and have any hope of winning elections is to run alongside somebody who has lost their marbles. Not good. Not good at all.
In the context of today, I definitely stick by that comment.
| 217 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:29:21pm |
re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist
No. Religion spoils some things. Political ideologies spoil others. Then, there's natural disasters, and lack of refrigeration.
Over-production, too much compression, keyboards too high in the mix, it's sad, really
| 218 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:30:29pm |
re: #213 Fozzie Bear
It's relative to the times. Kennedy cut taxes at a time when the top bracket was more than double what it is today. At present, they are lower than they have been in nearly 100 years.
ummm,, you may want to check the top rates from about 1950-1986!!
(see table below timeline for easier read!)
[Link: www.huppi.com...]
| 219 |
Linden Arden Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:30:42pm |
It’s About Sharia
Newt Gingrich resets our national-security debate.
(National Review)
Campaign themes are being prepared.
| 220 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:31:18pm |
re: #217 WindUpBird
Over-production, too much compression, keyboards too high in the mix, it's sad, really
Music just isn't music without some dynamic range. I definitely find that far too much studio recorded music is dynamically squashed to the point that a whisper is the same volume as a scream. It really kills the build, and the catharsis.
| 221 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:31:42pm |
So, in light of the previous thread, could someone explain to me how "Insane Fascist Hate Bimbo" seems to have suddenly become such a popular career choice for certain women in this country?
Do men really find that so attractive? Or is the proliferation of Palins, Coulters, Malkins, Ingrahams, and Gellers as angry shrieking commentators a result of their inability to stop being bloodthirsty bitches long enough to get a date?
| 222 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:31:52pm |
re: #198 wrenchwench
I'm a polyatheist.
I just decided that.
can I be a polydeist? As in, I totally believe in lots of gods, but I....really couldn't be bothered to worship them or observe any rituals whatsoever, I'm pretty busy these days. They're gods, they can go about their business in Asgard or Ragnarok, or Olympus, or Care-A-Lot or Narnia or wherever...
| 223 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:31:54pm |
re: #216 Fozzie Bear
In the context of today, I definitely stick by that comment.
And a Romney could pick a Paul Ryan who IS conservative enough for the base and still has his marbles
| 224 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:32:13pm |
| 225 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:32:38pm |
re: #220 Fozzie Bear
Music just isn't music without some dynamic range. I definitely find that far too much studio recorded music is dynamically squashed to the point that a whisper is the same volume as a scream. It really kills the build, and the catharsis.
Yeah, compression is for radio hits. Thankfully most of the music I listen to is unholy racket (but with a great deal of dynamic range) that'll never get played on the radio :D
| 226 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:33:33pm |
re: #224 Cato the Elder
Humans spoil everything.
Not if, like Jeffery Dahmer, you keep the heads in a freezer
| 227 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:34:53pm |
re: #218 sattv4u2
ummm,, you may want to check the top rates from about 1950-1986!!
(see table below timeline for easier read!)[Link: www.huppi.com...]
Look at the top and bottom brackets. At least in terms of federal income taxes, we have never had it so good. Well, not since 1916. Not that the source is the IRS. I think they know how much they collected. :)
| 228 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:35:17pm |
| 229 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:35:35pm |
| 230 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:37:04pm |
hahaha the idea that Fred Barnes is not partisan, oh my stars
I mean...hee hee hee
ho ho ho ho
oh dear, I need a kleenex
Oh Fred, you rascally scamp, you're the biggest shill in the pigpen
| 231 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:37:45pm |
re: #219 Linden Arden
It’s About Sharia
Newt Gingrich resets our national-security debate.(National Review)
Campaign themes are being prepared.
Here we go...
I especially like the careful use of 'Islamist' to avoid giving the impression that all Muslims are planning to overturn of Western Civilization. But how can you tell if a Muslim is an Islamist? Why, ask how they feel about sharia.
If they follow it, they're an Islamist.
| 232 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:38:23pm |
re: #223 sattv4u2
And a Romney could pick a Paul Ryan who IS conservative enough for the base and still has his marbles
In late January 2010, Ryan released a new version of his "Roadmap."[15] It would give across the board tax cuts by reducing income tax rates; eliminating income taxes on capital gains, dividends, and interest; and abolishing the corporate income tax, the estate tax, and the alternative minimum tax. The plan would privatize a portion of Social Security,[16][17] eliminate the tax exclusion for employer-sponsored health insurance,[17] end traditional Medicare and most of Medicaid,[16][17] and terminate the Children’s Health Insurance Program. The plan would replace these health programs with a system of vouchers whose value would decrease over time.[17]
Not only is that unelectable, it's nuts.
| 233 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:38:40pm |
re: #221 Cato the Elder
So, in light of the previous thread, could someone explain to me how "Insane Fascist Hate Bimbo" seems to have suddenly become such a popular career choice for certain women in this country?
Do men really find that so attractive? Or is the proliferation of Palins, Coulters, Malkins, Ingrahams, and Gellers as angry shrieking commentators a result of their inability to stop being bloodthirsty bitches long enough to get a date?
It's been a career option for a long time. It's just popular now because it combines showing your assets and screaming about the President, both currently popular pastimes.
| 234 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:42:58pm |
ot: Arizona Prison Break: MURDERERS Escape From Kingman Prison
Police were using helicopters and dogs Saturday to search for three convicted murderers who escaped from a northwest Arizona prison, kidnapped two semi-truck drivers at gunpoint and used the big rig to flee.
If only they were illegals...
///
| 235 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:45:49pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
Not only is that unelectable, it's nuts.
Before you call it "nuts", you really should research it. I have
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 236 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:46:16pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
Not only is that unelectable, it's nuts.
It's not quite as cut and dry batty as the wiki article lays out. His "privitization of social security includes this:
▫ Guarantee of Contributions. Individuals who choose to invest in personal accounts will be ensured every dollar they place into an account will be guaranteed, even after inflation. With the recent market downturn, individuals must be assured their retirement is secure. By guaranteeing the dollars you put into an account, individuals can be assured that they are protected against large-scale market downturns.
And this:
Increased Minimum Benefits for Low-Income Individuals. Provides that all individuals choosing personal accounts receive annuity payments of at least 150 percent of the poverty level. Increases to at least 120 percent of the poverty level the benefits for low-income individuals who choose to remain in the current system and meet certain working requirements.
Sounds a lot more like the current system, just with some market features built in.
Source was Ryan's summary of his proposals posted here:
[Link: www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov...]
| 237 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:49:32pm |
re: #236 BryanS
can you say KNEE JERK,, I know Fozzie can !!
/
| 238 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:51:14pm |
re: #237 sattv4u2
can you say KNEE JERK,, I know Fozzie can !!
/
Yeah...Ryan is not crazy. He has some well thought out conservative ideas that actually attempt to address the social issues the Dems claim only they care about. That makes him particularly dangerous to the Dems.
| 239 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:53:26pm |
re: #238 BryanS
Yeah...Ryan is not crazy. He has some well thought out conservative ideas that actually attempt to address the social issues the Dems claim only they care about. That makes him particularly dangerous to the Dems.
He's also the author of a reasoned health bill that never got out of committee (HR 3400, iirc)
| 240 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:54:53pm |
| 241 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:55:35pm |
re: #238 BryanS
Yeah...Ryan is not crazy. He has some well thought out conservative ideas that actually attempt to address the social issues the Dems claim only they care about. That makes him particularly dangerous to the Dems.
Um... a regressive tax code is not and has never been something dems "care about". Nor is privatizing entitlements.
| 242 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:55:43pm |
re: #239 sattv4u2
He's also the author of a reasoned health bill that never got out of committee (HR 3400, iirc)
He is a real ideas man. I really think he should keep working his way to prominence in the house leadership. Id' vote--if citizens could--for him to be speaker of the house.
| 243 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:56:35pm |
re: #242 BryanS
He is a real ideas man. I really think he should keep working his way to prominence in the house leadership. Id' vote--if citizens could--for him to be speaker of the house.
Sadly, I think 2012 is too early for him
I hope 2016 isn't too late!
| 244 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:57:24pm |
re: #241 Fozzie Bear
Um... a regressive tax code is not and has never been something dems "care about". Nor is privatizing entitlements.
Since when is my own money that I earn an "entitlement"??
| 245 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:57:35pm |
re: #241 Fozzie Bear
Um... a regressive tax code is not and has never been something dems "care about". Nor is privatizing entitlements.
Two-Rate Tax Schedule. Creates the following Simplified Tax rates:
- Ten-Percent Rate. A rate of 10 percent applies to adjusted gross income [AGI] (defined below) up to $100,000 for joint filers, and $50,000 for single filers.
- Twenty-Five Percent Rate. A rate of 25 percent applies to taxable income above $100,000 for joint filers and $50,000 for single filers. (See Table for a comparison with current tax brackets.)
▫ Adjusted Gross Income, Standard Deductions, and Personal Exemptions. Defines taxable income as equal to earnings minus a standard deduction and personal exemption. The standard deduction is $25,000 for joint tax filers, $12,500 for single filers. The personal exemption is $3,500. The combination is equivalent to a $39,000 exemption for a family of four.
That's not a regressive tax plan by any measure. Wanna try again?
| 246 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:59:08pm |
re: #245 BryanS
That's not a regressive tax plan by any measure. Wanna try again?
It would result in raising taxes on the poor and middle class, and cutting them for the wealthy, compared to now. That's the definition of regression, when used in reference to taxation.
| 247 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 3:59:55pm |
re: #245 BryanS
That's not a regressive tax plan by any measure. Wanna try again?
but it SOUNDED good!
Next, it will be "it's for the children/ elderly!"
/
| 248 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:00:03pm |
re: #246 Fozzie Bear
It's all about who carries what proportion of the tax burden, and who receives what proportion of the resulting services, and for what cost.
| 249 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:00:28pm |
re: #246 Fozzie Bear
It would result in raising taxes on the poor and middle class, and cutting them for the wealthy, compared to now. That's the definition of regression, when used in reference to taxation.
Incorrect,, by a LOT!
| 250 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:02:01pm |
This is really basic economic, guys.
[Link: krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...]
And Ryan is waaaaay out of touch with the realities of economics.
| 251 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:02:19pm |
re: #246 Fozzie Bear
It would result in raising taxes on the poor and middle class, and cutting them for the wealthy, compared to now. That's the definition of regression, when used in reference to taxation.
Do the math. You are utterly wrong. Tax exemptions of $12.5k for singles and $39k for families of 4, with a 10% bracket for anything above that means most lower and middle income taxpayes will see their taxes go down.
| 252 |
Fortitudine Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:02:31pm |
re: #8 Irenicum
"Non-denominational" -- a polite way of saying "so unhinged that no established religion will have anything to do with them."
| 253 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:03:56pm |
re: #251 BryanS
Do the math. You are utterly wrong. Tax exemptions of $12.5k for singles and $39k for families of 4, with a 10% bracket for anything above that means most lower and middle income taxpayes will see their taxes go down.
No fair, if you're going to start using actual math and real numbers to prove your point!!
Feelings,, nothing more than Feelings ,,,
| 254 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:04:56pm |
re: #250 Fozzie Bear
This is really basic economic, guys.
[Link: krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...]
And Ryan is waaay out of touch with the realities of economics.
LOL...he quotes Krugman. At any rate, the article you linked to has nothing to say about the income tax proposal.
| 255 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:05:51pm |
re: #250 Fozzie Bear
This is really basic economic, guys.
[Link: krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...]
And Ryan is waaay out of touch with the realities of economics.
Krugman !?!?!?
oh, my!!
| 256 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:06:55pm |
| 257 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:08:49pm |
re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, the guy with the Nobel, it is to laugh...
you really don't want to go down that road, do you?
Shall we venture a list of other Nobel winners!?!?!
| 258 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:09:27pm |
re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, the guy with the Nobel, it is to laugh...
I knew that one was coming. The Nobel organization has become political. Obama was wise to see through what appeared to be a blatant attempt to influence the American war efforts through his selection for the peace prize. Obama gave speech about just wars. I'm sure that tee'd of the prize committee .
| 259 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:10:05pm |
re: #251 BryanS
Do the math. You are utterly wrong. Tax exemptions of $12.5k for singles and $39k for families of 4, with a 10% bracket for anything above that means most lower and middle income taxpayes will see their taxes go down.
From here. That article links to plenty of other sources, so it's a good starting point for why reputable economists think the man is insane.
Begin with his proposed tax changes. Ryan would not only retain the Bush tax cuts for the highest earners, he would further lower the top tax rate to 25%. On top of that, he would repeal all taxes on corporate income, inherited estates, capital gains, and dividends. In other words, he would completely eliminate the most progressive elements of the tax code, and slash the next most progressive element. In their place he would impose a value-added tax, which would not bring in nearly enough revenue to replace the revenue lost from his tax cuts, but would fall much more heavily on the poor and middle class.
That's the definition of regression. If you focus solely on income, it isn't. But this proposal wasn't just about income taxes.
Some more analysis:
[Link: www.cbpp.org...]
I. SummaryThe Roadmap for America’s Future, which Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) — the ranking Republican on the House Budget Committee — released in late January, calls for radical policy changes that would result in a massive transfer of resources from the broad majority of Americans to the nation’s wealthiest individuals.[1]
And here:
[Link: www.ctj.org...]
New CTJ Report on Rep. Ryan's House GOP Budget Plan: Federal Government Would Collect $2 Trillion Less Over a Decade and Yet Require Bottom 90 Percent to Pay Higher Taxes
And of course other notables like Krugman have weighed in as well. It's a terrible plan, and it IS regressive.
| 260 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:11:01pm |
re: #255 sattv4u2
Krugman !?!?!?
oh, my!!
Yeah. One of the only major economists to call this recession from years out.
| 261 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:14:07pm |
re: #257 sattv4u2
you really don't want to go down that road, do you?
Shall we venture a list of other Nobel winners!?!?!
I will happily acknowledge that the Peace Prize is a bit of a political football. However, you sound like a snot talking as though Krugman was a ridiculous person to cite--as compared to a politician you happen to agree with--in a conversation about economics.
Now granted, I know jack about econ, but the 'hee hee, he linked to KRUGMAN' snicker doesn't help your argument as I try to follow it.
| 262 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:14:38pm |
re: #258 BryanS
I knew that one was coming. The Nobel organization has become political. Obama was wise to see through what appeared to be a blatant attempt to influence the American war efforts through his selection for the peace prize. Obama gave speech about just wars. I'm sure that tee'd of the prize committee .
Yeah, you also sound like a snot.
| 263 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:16:15pm |
re: #259 Fozzie Bear
More incorrect statements. It is a consumption tax on businesses to replace the business income tax. You don't think the business taxes levied on businesses get passed onto consumers now?
| 264 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:16:38pm |
re: #260 Fozzie Bear
Yeah. One of the only major economists to call this recession from years out.
or not
[Link: faculty.chicagobooth.edu...]
How did Paul Krugman get it so Wrong?
Krugman hints at dark conspiracies, claiming “dissenters are marginalized.” Most of the article is just a calumnious personal attack on an ever-growing enemies list, which now includes “new Keynesians” such as Olivier Blanchard and Greg Mankiw. Rather than source professional writing, he plays gotcha with out-of-context second-hand quotes from media interviews. He makes stuff up, boldly putting words in people’s mouths that run contrary to their written opinions. Even this isn’t enough:
the author
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 265 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:17:21pm |
re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, you also sound like a snot.
Great reply--anything specific you have a problem?
| 266 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:17:41pm |
re: #263 BryanS
More incorrect statements. It is a consumption tax on businesses to replace the business income tax. You don't think the business taxes levied on businesses get passed onto consumers now?
Nahh ,, they are beneficent. !!
| 267 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:18:57pm |
re: #265 BryanS
Great reply--anything specific you have a problem?
Yes, I've stated my objection. Krugman may not be someone you agree with, but he is a respected economist. You got a specific objection to him except 'tee hee, he's so dumb he linked KRUGMAN!"?
| 268 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:19:08pm |
And sadly, on that note, my sons friends have arrived
After being on the road for 6 hours I'm sure they are starved
Lets see,,, a car full of teens. I hope I have a small cow in the house!
| 269 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:19:26pm |
re: #221 Cato the Elder
Do men really find that so attractive?
Not me. I married a sweet one, a Girl Scout in fact, who said "Have some more chicken Joe" & put a piece right on my plate. Right out of the frying pan. When we were camping.
BBL
| 270 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:20:50pm |
re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, I've stated my objection. Krugman may not be someone you agree with, but he is a respected economist. You got a specific objection to him except 'tee hee, he's so dumb he linked KRUGMAN!"?
Well, I replied to your one line comment to my point about the politicization of the prize selection process. Apparently you had nothing to say to that point. Why does that make me a snot?
| 271 |
Ojoe Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:21:48pm |
| 272 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:22:36pm |
A good read for those who don't understand the causes of the current recession. Read the whole thing.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Also:
[Link: www.thisamericanlife.org...]
re: #270 BryanS
Well, I replied to your one line comment to my point about the politicization of the prize selection process. Apparently you had nothing to say to that point. Why does that make me a snot?
I think mostly because it had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and it's a classic talking point, oft repeated ever since Obama received the Nobel.
| 273 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:25:57pm |
re: #272 Fozzie Bear
A good read for those who don't understand the causes of the current recession. Read the whole thing.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Also:
[Link: www.thisamericanlife.org...]
I think mostly because it had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and it's a classic talking point, oft repeated ever since Obama received the Nobel.
Well, that talking point has existed long before Obama--he's just the most recent example of a more political selection. And Obama knew how to handle that through his acceptance speech.
The topic at hand in my particular reply buy the way was to answer the claim that Krugman's analysis of Ryan's proposals should be accepted BECAUSE he is a Nobel prize winner. Quite on topic.
| 274 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:26:10pm |
re: #270 BryanS
Well, I replied to your one line comment to my point about the politicization of the prize selection process. Apparently you had nothing to say to that point. Why does that make me a snot?
Actually, since I had already said that the Peace Prize was a political football, I didn't imagine I needed to add anything to that.
Do you have any evidence of the politicization of the Econ prize, or of its having been awarded to economists so stupid that merely linking them is grounds for mockery?
Or did you just figure that "Huuuh, I thought that was gonna come up. The Nobel is like, POLITICIZED" was going to be sufficient?
| 275 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:26:12pm |
re: #272 Fozzie Bear
A good read for those who don't understand the causes of the current recession. Read the whole thing.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Also:
[Link: www.thisamericanlife.org...]
I think mostly because it had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and it's a classic talking point, oft repeated ever since Obama received the Nobel.
The Nobel Peace Prize has been so tainted by "winners" like Carter and Arafat that Obama should have turned it down on those grounds alone.
Other Nobel categories still require substantive achievement, though, including economics, so yes, in that regard the comment was snotty.
| 276 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:27:14pm |
re: #273 BryanS
Well, that talking point has existed long before Obama--he's just the most recent example of a more political selection. And Obama knew how to handle that through his acceptance speech.
The topic at hand in my particular reply buy the way was to answer the claim that Krugman's analysis of Ryan's proposals should be accepted BECAUSE he is a Nobel prize winner. Quite on topic.
Actually, I did not say that. I said that perhaps his status entitles him to a rebuttal, rather than mockery of anyone linking him.
| 277 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:30:02pm |
I don't expect a rebuttal that contains any specific claims, honestly.
The Nobel prize in economics isn't the political football that some seem to think it is. But hey, it has the word "Nobel" in it, so I understand the source of the knee-jerk.
| 278 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:33:11pm |
re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, since I had already said that the Peace Prize was a political football, I didn't imagine I needed to add anything to that.
Do you have any evidence of the politicization of the Econ prize, or of its having been awarded to economists so stupid that merely linking them is grounds for mockery?
Or did you just figure that "Huuuh, I thought that was gonna come up. The Nobel is like, POLITICIZED" was going to be sufficient?
Linking to Krugman is ridiculous because of his politics, not his economic credentials. You most certainly did imply that we should accept Krugman's views because of his prize. However Krugman is also very firmly in the Keynsian camp on economics. He has a political view--a very firm and unwavering one at that--and it influences which camp of economics he argues from. He is not an unbiased source in any way on tax policy.
| 279 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:38:20pm |
re: #278 BryanS
Linking to Krugman is ridiculous because of his politics, not his economic credentials. You most certainly did imply that we should accept Krugman's views because of his prize. However Krugman is also very firmly in the Keynsian camp on economics. He has a political view--a very firm and unwavering one at that--and it influences which camp of economics he argues from. He is not an unbiased source in any way on tax policy.
No one said he was unbiased. Is Ryan unbiased?
What I said was this: "Yeah, the guy with the Nobel, it is to laugh..."
Now, if you think that means "Accept everything he says", allow me to clarify, it doesn't.
However, I do, as I've said until I'm blue, think that your knee-jerk reaction to his very name was obnoxious.
| 280 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:40:11pm |
re: #278 BryanS
Linking to Krugman is ridiculous because of his politics, not his economic credentials. You most certainly did imply that we should accept Krugman's views because of his prize. However Krugman is also very firmly in the Keynsian camp on economics. He has a political view--a very firm and unwavering one at that--and it influences which camp of economics he argues from. He is not an unbiased source in any way on tax policy.
He has opinions, politically. *gasp*
That's not relevant to his work as an economist. Every economist has been politicized, thanks to the GOP's continued pushing of supply-side economics, courtesy of the University of Chicago School of Economics. Economic theory has implications regarding policy, and thus, it will be politicized. As has been made abundantly apparent.
| 281 |
BryanS Sat, Jul 31, 2010 4:44:09pm |
re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist
No one said he was unbiased. Is Ryan unbiased?
What I said was this: "Yeah, the guy with the Nobel, it is to laugh..."
Now, if you think that means "Accept everything he says", allow me to clarify, it doesn't.
However, I do, as I've said until I'm blue, think that your knee-jerk reaction to his very name was obnoxious.
It is also a rather lame excuse I hear to trust what Krugman says "he's a Nobel Economics prize recipient afterall". And it comes so often from the left, I find that argument rather knee jerk as well.
| 282 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:03:58pm |
re: #278 BryanS
Linking to Krugman is ridiculous because of his politics, not his economic credentials. You most certainly did imply that we should accept Krugman's views because of his prize. However Krugman is also very firmly in the Keynsian camp on economics. He has a political view--a very firm and unwavering one at that--and it influences which camp of economics he argues from. He is not an unbiased source in any way on tax policy.
Nobody is an unbiased source on tax policy, because everyone pays taxes
It sounds like you're trying to discredit Krugman, which is lunacy. Of course he has an opinion.
If you're going to discredit everyone with a point of view, congratulations now nobody can listen to anyone ;-)
| 283 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:05:49pm |
re: #280 Fozzie Bear
He has opinions, politically. *gasp*
That's not relevant to his work as an economist. Every economist has been politicized, thanks to the GOP's continued pushing of supply-side economics, courtesy of the University of Chicago School of Economics. Economic theory has implications regarding policy, and thus, it will be politicized. As has been made abundantly apparent.
It's like saying I can't trust a Chevy mechanic because he also doesn't work on equal numbers of Fords, Dodges, Volkswagens, Hyundais, Maseratis, Bricklins, DeTomasos, Dusenbergs...
| 284 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:07:46pm |
I seem to remember doing some internet battle with bryanS about GOP tax myths a while ago, ahh memories
| 285 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:13:35pm |
re: #278 BryanS
Linking to Krugman is ridiculous because of his politics, not his economic credentials. You most certainly did imply that we should accept Krugman's views because of his prize. However Krugman is also very firmly in the Keynsian camp on economics. He has a political view--a very firm and unwavering one at that--and it influences which camp of economics he argues from. He is not an unbiased source in any way on tax policy.
You know what? When SFZ - perhaps the most even-tempered person on this board - calls you a "snot", then the reality is you're probably more of a douchebag.
In your case, I'm thinking your a Milton Friedman, Ronald Reagan, voodoo economics kind of douchebag.
I'll be keeping an eye on you.
| 286 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:16:10pm |
re: #285 Cato the Elder
PIMF: "...I'm thinking you're..."
| 287 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:29:22pm |
re: #196 Fozzie Bear
I know there are a few. I just want to see a comeback of public appeals to specific deities, and blasphemous expletives that utilize the plural.
Ancient Rome was on to something.
Well, the parties *have* been working on setting up their past Presidents as deities...
;)
| 288 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:52:17pm |
re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist
Here we go...
I especially like the careful use of 'Islamist' to avoid giving the impression that all Muslims are planning to overturn of Western Civilization. But how can you tell if a Muslim is an Islamist? Why, ask how they feel about sharia.
If they follow it, they're an Islamist.
Sadly, that has a good bit of validity. If a Muslim believes in sharia, that does make them an Islamist as far as we're concerned.
| 289 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 31, 2010 5:53:52pm |
re: #288 Dark_Falcon
Sadly, that has a good bit of validity. If a Muslim believes in sharia, that does make them an Islamist as far as we're concerned.
How so? Concepts of what is sharia vary wildly, you know.
| 290 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:08:41pm |
re: #289 Obdicut
How so? Concepts of what is sharia vary wildly, you know.
I wouldn't consider all supporters of Sharia Islamist radicals, but your statement is false. Sharia is the law of Allah. It is precisely written, probably more so than our law, or constitution that we argue about all the time.
What varies widely is how devote people are, but when enforced by a government, Sharia does not vary widely.
| 291 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:18:14pm |
re: #290 Naso Tang
What varies widely is how devote people are, but when enforced by a government, Sharia does not vary widely.
I'm sorry, but yes, it does. It's interpreted differently in different branches of Islam and in different countries. Saying that it is precisely written may have been true at one point-- though I doubt it--but after the mutation of language, culture, and technology, not so much anymore. It all requires interpretation-- the Sunni and the Shi'ites go about this in very, very different ways, and there are many subdivisions underneath that, as well.
| 292 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:30:26pm |
re: #291 Obdicut
I'm sorry, but yes, it does. It's interpreted differently in different branches of Islam and in different countries. Saying that it is precisely written may have been true at one point-- though I doubt it--but after the mutation of language, culture, and technology, not so much anymore. It all requires interpretation-- the Sunni and the Shi'ites go about this in very, very different ways, and there are many subdivisions underneath that, as well.
We can nitpick the details forever, just like lawyers everywhere; however where it is practiced one very significant commonality is the place of women in society. That does not change to any degree.
I would also add that the only reason Saudi doesn't cut off more hands and feet is because the rest of the world doesn't like it, not because they think it is not Sharia. That would be same same reason Iran commutes a woman's sentence of death by stoning to death by hanging.
If you want to dismiss Sharia to something akin to the separate customary law allowed in this country on Indian reservations, be my guest; but it is then no more than certain community customs, good or bad, but it is no longer Sharia.
| 293 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:34:58pm |
re: #292 Naso Tang
We can nitpick the details forever, just like lawyers everywhere
No, it's not a nitpick. You simply made a very, very false statement. I know American Muslims who consider themselves to follow Sharia, and it is nothing at all like how Sharia is practiced in Saudi Arabia.
I would also add that the only reason Saudi doesn't cut off more hands and feet is because the rest of the world doesn't like it, not because they think it is not Sharia.
It's because they're Saudia Arabia. Our partners in peace.
If you want to dismiss Sharia to something akin to the separate customary law allowed in this country on Indian reservations, be my guest;
No, I'm saying it can be anything from a semi-mystical way you're supposed to live your life, or a strong set of restrictive, oppressive rules. These days, in the Middle East, there are a lot of semi-theocratic places where the oppressive crap is the mainstream.
This may come as a shock to you, but you're not actually the guy in charge of saying what Sharia is and is not.
| 294 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:44:50pm |
re: #293 Obdicut
This may come as a shock to you, but you're not actually the guy in charge of saying what Sharia is and is not.
Your sarcasm doesn't strengthen any argument you may have.
I lived for 10 years in Sharia countries. I know what it looked like there. I didn't realize you were talking about American immigrants who can afford to pick and choose their traditions with fear of being jailed for presuming certain freedoms.
You are using the name Sharia in the sense of cultural customs, picked and chosen at will.
That is not what Allah had in mind.
| 296 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 31, 2010 6:47:07pm |
re: #294 Naso Tang
You are using the name Sharia in the sense of cultural customs, picked and chosen at will.
No, I'm not. I'm talking about Sharia, the religious law that Muslims are supposed to follow, which is interpreted differently in different countries, by different Imams.
It is not in the least bit monolithic.
| 297 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Jul 31, 2010 7:02:45pm |
re: #182 Fozzie Bear
I think it's time for polytheism to make a comeback. As an atheist, I would find it preferable.
Really. I doubt that polytheists would entertain the same goofy ideas about sex, sexuality, orientation, and sex education that are espoused today in our Christian-influenced society. IMO.
| 298 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jul 31, 2010 7:07:02pm |
re: #296 Obdicut
No, I'm not. I'm talking about Sharia, the religious law that Muslims are supposed to follow, which is interpreted differently in different countries, by different Imams.
It is not in the least bit monolithic.
You just don't get it, even though you say it.
"Interpreted by Imams", who are not elected nor appointed by anyone except their local reputation.
Often very very local.
A very convenient and ancient form of power over people.
Back to the Shamans we go./
| 299 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Jul 31, 2010 7:23:50pm |
I've got to sign off, but if you are still here let me make one point that you seem to miss.
It is not necessarily a bad thing to have an advisor, say an Imam, in matters of tradition or culture, anymore than it is bad to be able to talk to a priest or pastor or Rabbi about matters of family or ethics.
However it is quite different if that advise is legally enforceable by the police.
The latter is Sharia LAW. What you talk about is tradition.
| 300 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 31, 2010 7:47:05pm |
re: #298 Naso Tang
Wow. So your original argument-- that the law was the same everywhere-- is now that the law is interpreted incredibly locally. That's really bizarre.
The latter is Sharia LAW. What you talk about is tradition.
No. Sharia can also be their own rules of life that they life under whatever temporal law they have. It's really, actually, possible.
Yes, theocracies are bad. Thanks for the memo on that. Theocracy is not the goal of every Muslim.
| 301 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Jul 31, 2010 7:49:17pm |
re: #288 Dark_Falcon
Crazy conservative hysterics about Muslims for dinner AGAIN?!?! I wanted spaghetti-Os!
| 302 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Jul 31, 2010 9:54:20pm |
re: #123 Fozzie Bear
Jesus, riding a horse made of fire.
This game is easy.
He's old enough, but not a natural born citizen.
For those who claim Jesus is an American, I want to see the long-form birth certificate!
| 303 |
ClaudeMonet Sat, Jul 31, 2010 9:57:02pm |
| 305 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Aug 1, 2010 7:30:46am |
re: #300 Obdicut
Wow. So your original argument-- that the law was the same everywhere-- is now that the law is interpreted incredibly locally. That's really bizarre.
You need to take something for that cognitive dissonance thing.
I repeat; there are Muslim traditions and conventions that may be followed to varying degrees by different people, but that is not LAW enforceable by police, hence while it may be derived from Sharia, it is NOT the law of the land.
Sharia LAW is enforceable law and derives from the Koran. Just like our constitution, and as with all literal interpretations of the word of God, there can be some differences in how it is interpreted, but the fundamentals are clear and simple and in Islam literalism rules more than in Christianity.
Sharia LAW is not the same as traditions derived from Sharia.
Do you get the point now, or do I have to keep explaining?
| 306 |
Obdicut Sun, Aug 1, 2010 7:55:03am |
| 307 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:07:29pm |
re: #306 Obdicut
No, not always. It's often not.
Boy, this is easy.
You play troll games. I thought we were having a serious discussion.
| 308 |
Obdicut Sun, Aug 1, 2010 10:47:13pm |
re: #307 Naso Tang
No, I don't. You repeatedly state things that are untrue.
Sharia 'law' is not necessarily a law enforced by police. It can be simply the 'law' that the adherent to Islam attempts to follow.
It's a serious discussion, but a large number of your assumptions have been incorrect, and some have been self-contradictory. This makes it bumpy going.
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