Sunday Afternoon Music: John Hiatt, ‘The Open Road’
Music • Views: 2,482
A great performance of a great song from John Hiatt’s latest album, The Open Road.
271 comments
2 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:47:34pm |
Kenny Blevins in drums…one of the best in the business….he’s with the Goners, Sonny Landreths rhythm machine
3 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:50:05pm |
An interesting article from a conservative perspective (read: old-guard conservative, not crazy) about the causes of our current economic woes here.
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ausador Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:53:39pm |
I hadn’t realized that this guy was running for office in Florida. Damn he seems so trustworthy too, now who should I vote for?
///
5 |
prairiefire Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:56:13pm |
The nice thing about Colorado radio stations? They play John Hiatt.
6 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:58:22pm |
re: #3 Fozzie Bear
An interesting article from a conservative perspective (read: old-guard conservative, not crazy) about the causes of our current economic woes here.
There’s also this making the rounds today…
From neocons to crazy-cons By David Klinghoffe
Once the conservative movement was about finding meaning in private life and public service. But it has undergone a shift toward demagoguery and hucksterism.
I think the wheels have finally come off and people are starting to notice. I suspect most people are missing the diagnosis. The problems run deeper than most people seem willing to acknowledge. This has been going on for a very long time.
| 7 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:00:21pm |
re: #5 prairiefire
The nice thing about Colorado radio stations? They play John Hiatt.
cool….he is so far underrated, he’s a total mystery to most people
9 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:03:10pm |
re: #6 Killgore Trout
I think the wheels have finally come off and people are starting to notice. I suspect most people are missing the diagnosis. The problems run deeper than most people seem willing to acknowledge. This has been going on for a very long time.
That’s a funny article because David Klinghoffer is one of the kookiest creationists on the right — obsessed with proving Darwin equals Hitler. I have to wonder what he thinks he means by “crazy cons.”
10 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:04:15pm |
Off topic question here:
Can we throw down on the blog? (approved by Charles of course)
| 11 |
ausador Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:06:09pm |
re: #5 prairiefire
The nice thing about Colorado radio stations? They play John Hiatt.
I just watched a John Denver special on P.B.S. it is too easy to forget just how good he was during his heyday. Yeah, it is pretty much a joke to listen to his music now, but I just have to say, Damn he was good! Some of his songs are well on their way to becoming permanent folklore in this country, they will still be teaching them at summer camps a hundred years from now probably… :)
| 12 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:07:40pm |
re: #9 Charles
That’s a funny article because David Klinghoffer is one of the kookiest creationists on the right — obsessed with proving Darwin equals Hitler. I have to wonder what he thinks he means by “crazy cons.”
That’s why I’m suspicious of these articles popping up. They are generally correct but I suspect a lot of these folks want to replace Glenn Beck style crazy with their own misguided ideas. I don’t think anyone has really zeroed in on the problem yet but more people are starting to recognize that something’s gone horribly wrong.
| 13 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:08:06pm |
re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar
Off topic question here:
Can we throw down on the blog? (approved by Charles of course)
just don’t throw up on the blog
| 14 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:08:18pm |
re: #6 Killgore Trout
I think the wheels have finally come off and people are starting to notice. I suspect most people are missing the diagnosis. The problems run deeper than most people seem willing to acknowledge. This has been going on for a very long time.
As the article you linked intimates, it is and always has been a culture war. Materialism vs… something else. The problem is that the something else has never been adequately defined as a worthy alternative to Humanist materialism. It can’t be explicitly defined as religious in nature, as such is verboten in American politics until recently.
re: #9 Charles
That’s a funny article because David Klinghoffer is one of the kookiest creationists on the right — obsessed with proving Darwin equals Hitler. I have to wonder what he thinks he means by “crazy cons.”
He echos the rhetoric of the Discovery Institute;s infamous wedge document, in his calls for a pushback against materialsim, as he calls it.
I prefer to call it knowledge, science, and progress. This is the echo of a pushback that started during the enlightenment, and never went away.
| 15 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:09:31pm |
re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar
Off topic question here:
Can we throw down on the blog? (approved by Charles of course)
Image: picard.jpg
/Like this?
| 16 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:10:16pm |
re: #12 Killgore Trout
That’s why I’m suspicious of these articles popping up. They are generally correct but I suspect a lot of these folks want to replace Glenn Beck style crazy with their own misguided ideas. I don’t think anyone has really zeroed in on the problem yet but more people are starting to recognize that something’s gone horribly wrong.
The problem is the accelerating pace of cultural and technological change. This is mankind’s cultural existential crisis. If God can’t provide meaning in all areas, then something must, many such as that author feel.
There are alot of people who find the concept of just existing, without any reason or purpose for doing so, utterly terrifying.
| 17 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:10:21pm |
re: #12 Killgore Trout
That’s why I’m suspicious of these articles popping up. They are generally correct but I suspect a lot of these folks want to replace Glenn Beck style crazy with their own misguided ideas. I don’t think anyone has really zeroed in on the problem yet but more people are starting to recognize that something’s gone horribly wrong.
seeking a more mundane rhetoric…toned down but the same insanity
18 |
simoom Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:11:42pm |
A couple of items from the 2010 National Scout Jamboree.
Here’s President Obama’s pretaped address which played at the event:
Youtube Video
Also, a short writeup on Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ speech to the scouts, which the WSJ article oddly characterizes as “grumpy” and “cranky”. :P
Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a former Eagle Scout, addressed the Boy Scout jamboree being held at Virginia’s Fort A.P. Hill.—and struck a decidedly cranky tone.
…
“At a time when many American young people are turning into couch potatoes, and too often much worse, scouting continues to challenge boys and young men, preparing you for leadership,” Gates said.Gates praised scouting for pushing young people into the wilderness to learn both about nature and self reliance. He also said the Boy Scout’s great contribution was encouraging public service. “The scouting movement shows dramatically that service, public service, still beckons the best among us to do battle with complacency, neglect, intolerance, and the emptiness of the spirit that are the common enemies of social peace and justice,” he said.
| 19 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:13:23pm |
re: #16 Fozzie Bear
The problem is the accelerating pace of cultural and technological change. This is mankind’s cultural existential crisis. If God can’t provide meaning in all areas, then something must, many such as that author feel.
There are alot of people who find the concept of just existing, without any reason or purpose for doing so, utterly terrifying.
us atheists make up our own reason and purpose…diversity dood
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dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:13:28pm |
re: #6 Killgore Trout
I think the wheels have finally come off and people are starting to notice. I suspect most people are missing the diagnosis. The problems run deeper than most people seem willing to acknowledge. This has been going on for a very long time.
i only hope more people are starting to notice!
but the republican party is following an old hustler strategy: find out what the rube desperately wants, no matter how unrealistic, and promise him that you will get it for him - if he only does a few things that happen to further the hustler’s nefarious ends
then you hope that the rube never notices how they’ve been cheated
| 21 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:13:49pm |
re: #18 simoom
Well, WSJ is now a News Corp entity. Draw your own conclusions about the implications that has on the tone of content carried there.
| 22 |
ausador Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:16:57pm |
re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar
Off topic question here:
Can we throw down on the blog? (approved by Charles of course)
Uhh…havn’t you already seen 100 episodes of battle here? (Ok, so fifty of them were probably between LVQ and Bagua, or Bagua and Mandy, still…)
While Charles and Stinky may permit it (to a certain extant) you might want to consider how much it effs up the thread for everyone else trying to read it. It is no fun reading post after post from the same two people doing nothing but trading insults and being hostile.
If you have to act like a juvenile then Charles will certainly let you know when you have gone too far with a “time out.” Still, the rest of us readers would much rather you didn’t, I find myself leaving off reading here more and more because of the level of hostility prevalent in many of the threads.
I don’t come here to get angry, I come for current information and a bit of escape…
| 23 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:16:59pm |
re: #19 albusteve
us atheists make up our own reason and purpose…diversity dood
Diversity of opinion, termed “relativism” by those who wish for more homogeneous times, is exactly the thing against which people like David Klinghoffer rail.
Absolute, i.e., divine truth cannot exist in a world where perspective plays a role. For people like David Klinghoffer, that entails a loss of structure and control. It also implies to him, absurd as it may be, the death of God.
| 26 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:19:18pm |
re: #20 engineer dog
i only hope more people are starting to notice!
but the republican party is following an old hustler strategy: find out what the rube desperately wants, no matter how unrealistic, and promise him that you will get it for him - if he only does a few things that happen to further the hustler’s nefarious ends
then you hope that the rube never notices how they’ve been cheated
That implies that the hustler isn’t himself also terrified. This all stems from fear of a rapidly changing world.
| 28 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:21:54pm |
re: #27 tradewind
That they’re pro-business.
Shocka.
Whose business? Certainly not the business of impartiality.
The WSJ bears Murdoch’s fingerprints of late, and that doesn’t bode well for those wanting to find reasoned analysis in the pages of the WSJ.
| 29 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:22:31pm |
| 30 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:25:04pm |
re: #28 Fozzie Bear
Yeah, the NYT is whining that since the purchase, the WSJ is sucking up all their advertising from the NYC area.
Re civility or lack of it ( upthread), recheck the last thread….. left an apology for misunderstanding your post.
| 31 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:26:41pm |
re: #26 Fozzie Bear
That implies that the hustler isn’t himself also terrified. This all stems from fear of a rapidly changing world.
this is true
i should say that in my scenario the republican party exists basically to cut taxes and roll back regulations on large corporations
i regard everything they say or do as some form of carrying out these ends - but in our system they need a majority. therefore they have made a practice of promising seven absurd things before breakfast to many gullible people, if only they will vote for them
i think the tea party is a symptom of these gullible persons finally twigging that they are not getting what they thoguht they were voting for
| 32 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:30:36pm |
re: #30 tradewind
Yeah, the NYT is whining that since the purchase, the WSJ is sucking up all their advertising from the NYC area.
Re civility or lack of it ( upthread), recheck the last thread… left an apology for misunderstanding your post.
It’s cool. I also apologized in that thread. No hard feelings.
| 33 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:30:43pm |
| 34 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:32:45pm |
Asleep At the Wheel….this band is such a treat
Ray Benson is very talented
Youtube Video
| 35 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:34:56pm |
re: #33 engineer dog
who is pro-the rest of us?
nobody and that is the point… In this case I prefer the European style where newspapers don’t have to pretend to be impartial. You buy a paper called the National, or the Progressive, Green News, you know what you are buying… or should.
36 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:36:05pm |
OT
Bat guano alert, with bloodthirsty endorsements from various commenters:
Congress has duty to declare war on Mexico
Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution gives Congress the authority to declare war. This is certainly in keeping with the preamble, which declares that government was established to provide for the common defense of the United States. This is important to note because Fox News in Phoenix is reporting that Mexico’s ruling authority (a drug cartel) has called for the assassination of one of our elected political leaders, and has gone so far as to offer a reward for this killing.
This would not be important except as an example of how wingnuts respond when an infallible source (Faux News) reports on a threat against a revered icon (Sheriff Joe of green bologna fame).
37 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:37:53pm |
O/t I am reading a very interesting and entertaining book which I would be threw with by now if my husband had not stolen it from me. A little synopsis that I wrote for another blog discussing Iran which I thought I would bring over here as well:
There is a book out now in paperback which gives you a fairly accurate look at Iranian thinking right before the revolution through the period when Ayatollah Khomeini came to power. It helps you understand the thinking of everyday Iranians and not the mouthpieces of the Iranian gov. It is a novel but historically accurate picture of the politics and actions of the West and Iran especially the US. It starts in 1974 and the narrator is a 17 year old Iranian boy. My Iranian husband was a 17 year old Iranian boy in 1974 and he was blown away by this book. The title is “Rooftops of Tehran” by Mahbod Seraji. If you want a perspective of Iranian thought into what is Iran today that’s a good place to start and entertaining to boot.
| 38 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:38:52pm |
re: #36 Shiplord Kirel
OT
Bat guano alert, with bloodthirsty endorsements from various commenters:
Congress has duty to declare war on MexicoThis would not be important except as an example of how wingnuts respond when an infallible source (Faux News) reports on a threat against a revered icon (Sheriff Joe of green bologna fame).
combat operations limited to between 10am and 2pm
| 39 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:39:40pm |
re: #3 Fozzie Bear
An interesting article from a conservative perspective (read: old-guard conservative, not crazy) about the causes of our current economic woes here.
Here’s Alan Greenspan, of all people, saying essentially the same thing today on MTP.
Greenspan: End the Bush tax cuts
The banner ads on the page just make the whole thing more surreal.
| 40 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:40:49pm |
re: #33 engineer dog
Here’s a thought: without business, there is no ’ rest of us ‘.
At least, no ‘rest of us ’ who are employed, or who have a standard of living.
Census opportunities every ten years notwithstanding, neither Congress nor community organizers are known for creating jobs and economic growth.
| 41 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:41:35pm |
re: #38 albusteve
combat operations limited to between 10am and 2pm
/stupid freakin rules of engagement…
| 42 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:42:12pm |
re: #39 palomino
That wasn’t quite the sum total of his comment on the subject. He qualified his support for letting the tax cuts die with the admission that it would probably hurt growth, but he thinks we should take a chance.
No thanks.
43 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:42:47pm |
WE rarely go to first run movies, rarely go to many popular movies, rarely find first run popular movies anything more than mind candy.
Just got back from a first run popular movie. Granted, did pay matinee prices, granted, there was a free refill on the popcorn, so we took those suckers for a fortune… fooled them, we got 50 cents worth of popcorn for only 6.75 instead of 25 cents worth of popcorn for 6.75.
Go see “Inception.” NOW. (and this is coming from someone who doesn’t really care for Leo).
| 44 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:42:58pm |
re: #40 tradewind
Here’s a thought: without business, there is no ’ rest of us ‘.
At least, no ‘rest of us ’ who are employed, or who have a standard of living.
Census opportunities every ten years notwithstanding, neither Congress nor community organizers are known for creating jobs and economic growth.
well yes there is that…
| 45 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:43:05pm |
re: #39 palomino
Here’s Alan Greenspan, of all people, saying essentially the same thing today on MTP.
Greenspan: End the Bush tax cutsThe banner ads on the page just make the whole thing more surreal.
Fedzilla’s gluttonous behavior will regurgitate the cuts back out….like any junkie, it needs it’s fix
| 46 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:43:56pm |
47 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:44:30pm |
re: #39 palomino
Here’s Alan Greenspan, of all people, saying essentially the same thing today on MTP.
Greenspan: End the Bush tax cutsThe banner ads on the page just make the whole thing more surreal.
| 48 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:44:56pm |
it’s pouring on my front forty, and the sun’s out on the back forty….I love this town
| 49 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:45:25pm |
re: #42 tradewind
That wasn’t quite the sum total of his comment on the subject. He qualified his support for letting the tax cuts die with the admission that it would probably hurt growth, but he thinks we should take a chance.
No thanks.
How else do you ever get to a balanced budget? Greenspan is pretty clear that tax cuts won’t pay for themselves.
| 50 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:45:31pm |
re: #43 Walter L. Newton
So, you recommend it?
It looked like another “HEY! LOOK WHAT CGI CAN DO!” movie to me.
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Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:45:59pm |
re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
FBV! glad you are here - do you put any wording on your design/measurements to (kind of) keep the customer from taking them & going somewhere else? thanks!!!
| 52 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:46:42pm |
re: #49 palomino
How else do you ever get to a balanced budget? Greenspan is pretty clear that tax cuts won’t pay for themselves.
stop spending money you don’t have…rock science
| 53 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:46:49pm |
re: #49 palomino
How else do you ever get to a balanced budget? Greenspan is pretty clear that tax cuts won’t pay for themselves.
uhhh wait I know we could spend less?
| 54 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:47:01pm |
Oh, and thanks Charles. I love Hiatt.
| 55 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:47:05pm |
56 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:48:14pm |
re: #55 tradewind
I thought the last few years debunked that ‘economic theory’ (to use the term VERY VERY LOOSELY)
| 57 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:48:28pm |
re: #51 Stanley Sea
FBV! glad you are here - do you put any wording on your design/measurements to (kind of) keep the customer from taking them & going somewhere else? thanks!!!
No. They don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of getting my designs or measurements. My work product belongs to me.
I have drawn up completely bogus bullshit though when I thought the customer was fucking with me.
I’d love to see it a few months later.
| 58 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:49:06pm |
re: #49 palomino
You can’t really believe that a balanced budget is the goal.
To use one of POTUS’ pet phrases, it’s ‘kick the can down the road ‘. It’s what they know.
Speaking of down the road…… got to run.
| 60 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:49:16pm |
re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
No. They don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of getting my designs or measurements. My work product belongs to me.
They have pie…
| 61 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:49:20pm |
re: #53 brookly red
uhhh wait I know we could spend less?
Really? You’re gonna balance the budget with spending cuts alone? Good luck with that one.
It’s no accident that the only balanced budgets in over 30 years were in late 90s, when there was a combo of tax hikes and spending cuts.
| 62 |
Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:49:58pm |
re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
No. They don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of getting my designs or measurements. My work product belongs to me.
I have drawn up completely bogus bullshit though when I thought the customer was fucking with me.
I’d love to see it a few months later.
Thanks for the answer!!! We have a design the potential customer needs to see/keep, but are afraid of letting it go….wish there was a scare phrase or something. I know….
| 63 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:02pm |
re: #61 palomino
Not to mention that the GOP doesn’t want to cut spending anymore than anybody else does. Its just a good political tool to get people all pissed off.
| 64 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:25pm |
Now, if they raise taxes on the “rich” and REQUIRE that the “rich” spend a certain percentage of their leftover incomes on ‘suggested’ stuff (i.e. GM Cars, etc), we’ll be okay.
/
| 65 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:25pm |
re: #40 tradewind
Here’s a thought: without business, there is no ’ rest of us ‘.
At least, no ‘rest of us ’ who are employed, or who have a standard of living.
Census opportunities every ten years notwithstanding, neither Congress nor community organizers are known for creating jobs and economic growth.
when alan greepspan testifies before congress and uses the phrase “wage pressures”, he means by this the disruptive and annoying tendancy of employees to ask for a little more money for the work they are doing to run these businesses
at these moments it becomes painfully clear to me that the interests of “business” and the interests of “employees” are not always the same…
| 66 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:33pm |
re: #56 windsagio
I thought the last few years debunked that ‘economic theory’ (to use the term VERY VERY LOOSELY)
Ideology rarely gets debunked.
| 67 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:39pm |
re: #62 Stanley Sea
Thanks for the answer!!! We have a design the potential customer needs to see/keep, but are afraid of letting it go…wish there was a scare phrase or something. I know…
“Go screw”.
I know you can’t really do that, but wouldn’t it be nice? :D
| 68 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:50:46pm |
re: #60 brookly red
No one said there was pie involved.
| 69 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:51:45pm |
re: #63 windsagio
Not to mention that the GOP doesn’t want to cut spending anymore than anybody else does. Its just a good political tool to get people all pissed off.
Then it seems to be working.
| 70 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:51:57pm |
re: #61 palomino
Really? You’re gonna balance the budget with spending cuts alone? Good luck with that one.
It’s no accident that the only balanced budgets in over 30 years were in late 90s, when there was a combo of tax hikes and spending cuts.
there is enough bloat in govt to get us to a reasonable deficit in a few short years if it were liposuctioned out…taxes down the black hole
| 71 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:52:17pm |
re: #62 Stanley Sea
Thanks for the answer!!! We have a design the potential customer needs to see/keep, but are afraid of letting it go…wish there was a scare phrase or something. I know…
No, they don’t. They can have another appointment with you to arrange to buy your design.
There is no reason why a customer should keep your drawings… unless… they buy them from you. Five hundred bucks is fair, if you spent more than an hour working on it.
| 72 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:52:50pm |
re: #69 brookly red
It almost always works, that’s part of the pain.
That’s why I think GHW Bush was the best republican pres. since Eisenhower. He saw the reality staring him in the face and actually manned up (and paid the price for it).
| 73 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:53:41pm |
re: #63 windsagio
Not to mention that the GOP doesn’t want to cut spending anymore than anybody else does. Its just a good political tool to get people all pissed off.
Absolutely. Few are really serious about balancing the federal books. Those who are don’t put tax cuts off the table, and realize that there have to be revenue increases plus spending cuts.
It’s one of my main problem with teabaggers: lots of talk about the horrors of deficits, but no interest in doing the things necessary to get rid of them.
| 74 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:53:52pm |
re: #67 windsagio
“Go screw”.
I know you can’t really do that, but wouldn’t it be nice? :D
I have done almost precisely that.
CUSTOMER: “Can I get a printout of that drawing?”
ME: “Absolutely not.”
CUSTOMER: Blank stare
| 76 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:54:45pm |
re: #70 albusteve
there is enough bloat in govt to get us to a reasonable deficit in a few short years if it were liposuctioned out…taxes down the black hole
Without entitlement reform and/or cuts in military spending?
| 77 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:54:54pm |
re: #40 tradewind
Here’s a thought: without business, there is no ’ rest of us ‘.
p.s.
in the long millennia of human history when the overwhelming majority of people lived by subsistance farming - which era only ended recently - there was no business
only the rest of us
| 78 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:55:12pm |
re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
hehe :D
You hear about it happening sometimes too, “No we just came up with a design thats coincidentally almost identical!”
| 79 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:56:22pm |
re: #78 windsagio
I’ll actually mislead customer on sizes and dimensions and if I see they are taking notes.
| 80 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:56:34pm |
re: #77 engineer dog
p.s.
in the long millennia of human history when the overwhelming majority of people lived by subsistance farming - which era only ended recently - there was no business
only the rest of us
well the rest of us and the pesky King who would send his troops to tax our crops…
| 81 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:56:40pm |
re: #77 engineer dog
p.s.
in the long millennia of human history when the overwhelming majority of people lived by subsistance farming - which era only ended recently - there was no business
only the rest of us
But great statesman Calvin Coolidge said, “The business of America is business.” That’s all you need to know.
| 82 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:56:55pm |
re: #62 Stanley Sea
Thanks for the answer!!! We have a design the potential customer needs to see/keep, but are afraid of letting it go…wish there was a scare phrase or something. I know…
I hired a designer to do some work. We saw the design and chose it from 3 other designers. Not one would let the customer keep the design without hiring them.
| 83 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:57:16pm |
re: #78 windsagio
But I have designed for people who couldn’t afford me. The people I hose are the ones who can afford it, but are trying to hose me.
84 |
wiffersnapper Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:58:32pm |
Not really the best place to post this, but it’s the closest I can get to an open thread. I just installed Windows 7, and I love it! It’s a great OS. Props to Microsoft.
| 85 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:59:17pm |
re: #82 justaminute
It is work product. Work product belongs to the producer until the prospect becomes a paying customer.
| 86 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:59:27pm |
re: #84 wiffersnapper
Not really the best place to post this, but it’s the closest I can get to an open thread. I just installed Windows 7, and I love it! It’s a great OS. Props to Microsoft.
crash in 3… 2… 1…
| 87 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 2:59:40pm |
re: #80 brookly red
well the rest of us and the pesky King who would send his troops to tax our crops…
well, actually, even the stage of civilization involving kings and taxes is relatively recent in the overall scale of human history
but my main point is this:
i’m not gonna kiss the ass of “business” and thank them for my existence
“business” needs to kiss the ass of its employees just as much for doing the work to make their profits
| 88 |
Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:00:37pm |
re: #79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’ll actually mislead customer on sizes and dimensions and if I see they are taking notes.
Right on!
| 89 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:00:39pm |
re: #52 albusteve
How else do you ever get to a balanced budget? Greenspan is pretty clear that tax cuts won’t pay for themselves.
stop spending money you don’t have…rock science
In theory, cutting spending is a fine idea. Where do you propose we cut spending?
Should we cut unemployment, so that people who are legitimately unable to find a job are now totally unsupported, with the side effect of taking a sizeable sum of money out of the economy and thus losing even more jobs in the services and manufacturing sectors as consumption drops off?
Should we cut food stamps, so that people who literally do not make enough money to feed themselves now have nothing to eat?
How bout this idea: Let’s cut NASA, a tiny fraction of the budget which is in fact one of the nation’s leading research and development centers that develops technologies that more than pay themselves back in the future?
Cut defense spending and end all of our involvement overseas, allowing the enemy to take our place and leaving our allies without guarantees?
Cut money from education, so that in the future our country will be totally out-competed by other nations?
Raise the retirement age or end social security entirely? I’m sure that will be popular!
Stop repairing our roads that are already in bad shape?
I’d love to hear an idea of “cutting spending” that actually trims a significant amount of money off the budget without sacrificing our future. The fact is, while we may be able to trim a little fat here and cut a little there, we absolutely need to raise taxes to pay down this deficit.
| 90 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:00:52pm |
re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You have to defend yourself to some degree. Its like in recruiting. You place the guy and then they’re all ‘I’m sorry, so and so didn’t have the authority to set payment. Thanks for the free applicant!’
| 91 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:01:19pm |
re: #87 engineer dog
well, actually, even the stage of civilization involving kings and taxes is relatively recent in the overall scale of human history
but my main point is this:
i’m not gonna kiss the ass of “business” and thank them for my existence
“business” needs to kiss the ass of its employees just as much for doing the work to make their profits
indeed, and gubermint needs to kiss the ass of both business & employees for feeding it’s bloated carcass.
| 93 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:02:32pm |
re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, you recommend it?
It looked like another “HEY! LOOK WHAT CGI CAN DO!” movie to me.
No, it’s a very nice melding of what CGI can do, when placed into the right context (I can’t explain that without possible spoilers) and compliment a movie without taking control of the movie.
There is a lot more CGI than the “Dark City” style morphing you have seen in the trailers. But it is well used.
The movie is about as tightly written as any screenplay I have seen in a real long time. Almost surprised that they were able to sell the treatment to Hollywood, because it is not a couch potato movie.
It’s a action flick, “James Bond” like story, psychological thriller, sci-fi and all that, and intelligent as all get out.
| 95 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:04:25pm |
Some of the nastiest lightning and thunder I’ve heard all year up here right now… it’s monsoon time in Colorado… I have a UPS and surge protection on all this just in case… don’t want to fry the computer.
| 96 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:05:47pm |
re: #95 Walter L. Newton
One of the things I (kinda) regret about living in PDX and Seattle is that our weather is always relatively tame. You’ve gotta love a good crazy thunderstorm.
| 97 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:05:52pm |
re: #91 brookly red
indeed, and gubermint needs to kiss the ass of both business & employees for feeding it’s bloated carcass.
well, i definitely agree with that, which brings me back to my explanation of why i have never voted for a republican
| 98 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:06:00pm |
re: #93 Walter L. Newton
Thanks. I walked out of that Smurf movie.
| 100 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:07:15pm |
re: #97 engineer dog
well, i definitely agree with that, which brings me back to my explanation of why i have never voted for a republican
there was a time I could have said that too… live & learn.
101 |
cliffster Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:08:24pm |
John Hiatt! Thank you Charles.. every time someone plays John Hiatt, and angel gets its wings.
| 102 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:10:08pm |
re: #85 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It is work product. Work product belongs to the producer until the prospect becomes a paying customer.
I wouldn’t even ask. I’ve had designers do projects for inside and outside of both my restaurant and my home. I know what it takes to come up with a plan that you would put your name to. I never approach anyone for a project unless I am ready to go on a project and have researched potential designers. Taking someone’s work product is theft.
| 103 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:11:30pm |
re: #100 brookly red
there was a time I could have said that too… live & learn.
my perspective on things is from the point of view of somebody who has spent 25 years creating commercial products for companies, and who is also now running a little company of my own
i am literally a capitalist in the strict, rather than merely philosophical, sense of the word, yet my interests are still not necessarily the same as those of large corporations
| 104 |
cliffster Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:12:01pm |
re: #101 cliffster
“an” angel, that is. I just watched Stuart Appleby shoot a 59 to win The Greenbrier. Poor Jeff Overton, once again someone shot a crazy score to come from behind and beat him. This time.. 59. 5th time ever. He’s gotta be saying, what do I gotta do? I’m inspired I think I’ll go play nine holes.
| 105 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:13:41pm |
re: #102 justaminute
And people do it every day.
True story…had a customer once who’s son was a cabinet installer. Told her to get some designers to do some drawings (tacit, for free) and give them to him.
I explained to her that her son had asked her to steal.
I told her about “work product”. She was ashamed.
Then? Asked me for the drawing.
| 106 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:13:55pm |
re: #103 engineer dog
my perspective on things is from the point of view of somebody who has spent 25 years creating commercial products for companies, and who is also now running a little company of my own
i am literally a capitalist in the strict, rather than merely philosophical, sense of the word, yet my interests are still not necessarily the same as those of large corporations
well then you can understand that having a large portion of you take being spent on debt service is not a good business model.
| 107 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:15:56pm |
re: #106 brookly red
well then you can understand that having a large portion of you take being spent on debt service is not a good business model.
I’m sure you can understand that businesses that increase revenues are more successful than businesses that cut corners then.
| 108 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:16:01pm |
re: #97 engineer dog
I voted for Anderson.
Other than that… All Republican.
This Nov? A Libertarian.
| 109 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:16:30pm |
No other opinions on “Inception.” Come on, I can’t be the first Lizard to see a movie… I’m usually the last one to see it, usually on some medium that you can find at Goodwill on the used electronics shelves.
| 110 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:17:05pm |
re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
DOE
I suppose that’s a start, but it’s only a tiny fraction of military and entitlement spending, thus only a drop in the bucket.
| 111 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:18:23pm |
re: #95 Walter L. Newton
Some of the nastiest lightning and thunder I’ve heard all year up here right now… it’s monsoon time in Colorado… I have a UPS and surge protection on all this just in case… don’t want to fry the computer.
we have been getting plastered for a week now…the high desert is lush, green and in full bloom…sweet…and the clouds!, unbelievable skyscapes and sunsets
| 112 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:19:15pm |
re: #106 brookly red
well then you can understand that having a large portion of you take being spent on debt service is not a good business model.
that was the argument that i was promoting vociferously in the 1980s when the reagan administration policies were leading us to the spike in the percentage of the federal budget spent on debt service, where it ballooned from the usual 5-6% to 10% for a few years in the early 1990s. yet, the counter argument from the reagan adminstration that in an inflationary universe, all fixed interest payments become smaller over time, won the day
if we see a permanent increase in the percentage of the federal budget dedicated to debt service to where it stays over 8-9%, this will make it more of a problem
| 113 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:19:45pm |
re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Some people blow my mine too. I love the ones at the restaurant that eat everything on the plate and leave 2 bites of their steak and complain that it was not cooked correctly. Or the ones that order fish and say they don’t like fish but they just thought they would try it again.
| 114 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:19:49pm |
re: #107 SilentAlfa
I’m sure you can understand that businesses that increase revenues are more successful than businesses that cut corners then.
yes, but when your revenues come from taxes it is best to not starve the host organism…
| 115 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:20:07pm |
re: #89 SilentAlfa
Should we cut unemployment, so that people who are legitimately unable to find a job are now totally unsupported, with the side effect of taking a sizeable sum of money out of the economy and thus losing even more jobs in the services and manufacturing sectors as consumption drops off?
I personally felt it was in poor form for POTUS last week when he was talking about the poor lady who’s benefits might run out who might have to turn to her family for help.
If you can, shouldn’t you turn to family before strangers?
I might be stepping in it… not trying to start snarkiness, but isn’t that valid?
| 116 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:20:20pm |
re: #89 SilentAlfa
In theory, cutting spending is a fine idea. Where do you propose we cut spending?
Should we cut unemployment, so that people who are legitimately unable to find a job are now totally unsupported, with the side effect of taking a sizeable sum of money out of the economy and thus losing even more jobs in the services and manufacturing sectors as consumption drops off?
Should we cut food stamps, so that people who literally do not make enough money to feed themselves now have nothing to eat?
How bout this idea: Let’s cut NASA, a tiny fraction of the budget which is in fact one of the nation’s leading research and development centers that develops technologies that more than pay themselves back in the future?
Cut defense spending and end all of our involvement overseas, allowing the enemy to take our place and leaving our allies without guarantees?
Cut money from education, so that in the future our country will be totally out-competed by other nations?
Raise the retirement age or end social security entirely? I’m sure that will be popular!
Stop repairing our roads that are already in bad shape?I’d love to hear an idea of “cutting spending” that actually trims a significant amount of money off the budget without sacrificing our future. The fact is, while we may be able to trim a little fat here and cut a little there, we absolutely need to raise taxes to pay down this deficit.
the path we are on will determine the outcome…as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t” koolaid you hear from every donk admin and their supporters
| 117 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:20:40pm |
re: #110 palomino
You have to put many, many drops in a bucket to fill a bucket.
| 118 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:22:33pm |
re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I personally felt it was in poor form for POTUS last week when he was talking about the poor lady who’s benefits might run out who might have to turn to her family for help.
If you can, shouldn’t you turn to family before strangers?
I might be stepping in it… not trying to start snarkiness, but isn’t that valid?
well no, in the case of UIBs you are collecting out of you own pre-paid taxes. Government money don’t come from the government.
| 119 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:23:00pm |
re: #109 Walter L. Newton
Honestly. I had not even considered seeing it until you gave it a good review.
| 120 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:24:35pm |
re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You have to put many, many drops in a bucket to fill a bucket.
Problem is the usual drops I hear from the right—earmarks, DOE, etc.—are so small they don’t even cover the bottom of the bucket.
Nobody wants to talk about it because it’s painful and loses votes, but entitlements, military spending and tax hikes all have to be on the table.
| 121 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:24:50pm |
re: #118 brookly red
well no, in the case of UIBs you are collecting out of you own pre-paid taxes. Government money don’t come from the government.
After 52 weeks your not being paid out of what you paid in. At some point, you’re being paid out of what someone else paid in.
Am I totally off?
| 122 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:25:14pm |
re: #109 Walter L. Newton
Walter, I loved it. I saw it last night with our friends. Seeing it with an audience made me wonder how many understood it by the amount of groans from the spinning top at the end, there were not many. Leaving the movie, quite a few puzzled faces. I hated to write movie reviews in communications in college that’s why I didn’t respond earlier.
| 123 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:26:16pm |
re: #116 albusteve
the path we are on will determine the outcome…as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t” koolaid you hear from every donk admin and their supporters
about one third of federal expenditures, i think, are now borrowed every year. we could cut 1/3 of all expenditures across the board:
1/3 of all defense contracts let to private corporations to build military hardware and provide military services cut, therefore 1/3 less business for them
1/3 of all medicare payments to private hospitals, drug manufacturers, doctors and nurses, therefore 1/3 less of the part of their business that comes from medicare and medicaid for them
1/3 cut from social security payments, therefore 1/3 less money elderly people have to spend at the grocery and for rent and other things
any other suggestions about how to balance the budget?
| 124 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:26:29pm |
re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
After 52 weeks your not being paid out of what you paid in. At some point, you’re being paid out of what someone else paid in.
Am I totally off?
yes and no, if you have been working 20 years you are good, 2 years not so much.
| 125 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:28:01pm |
re: #114 brookly red
yes, but when your revenues come from taxes it is best to not starve the host organism…
re: #114 brookly red
yes, but when your revenues come from taxes it is best to not starve the host organism…
The host organism is hardly being ‘starved’. The top marginal tax rate was 91% under Eisenhower, 70% under Nixon. The rich survived then, and you know what? I think they can survive their tax rate increasing from 35% to 39%. Besides, raising taxes to cut down on the debt now will prevent interest from compounding—we will have less interest to pay on our debt later, and so taxes will then be able to fall again without compromising the budget situation.
Do we want to bite the bullet and start paying now, or try to pay an impossibly huge amount later?
You are telling me we can cut spending drastically enough without raising taxes to cut the deficit. Tell me exactly what you are going to cut and why it won’t be damaging to us now and in the future. Somebody said the Department of Energy, but it seems to me that cutting America’s largest source of funding for research into alternate energy sources would be a bad idea when oil is bound to become increasingly expensive and America’s technology is one of its edges.
| 126 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:28:20pm |
re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Honestly. I had not even considered seeing it until you gave it a good review.
Consider it. But when you get to the theater, make sure you have gone to the bathroom, you have all the coke and popco… er… cake you will need for a 2 hour and 20 minute ride… and don’t stray away from the action or the dialog for more than 3 seconds, or you miss something. For a studio movie (meaning non-indie or non-art house) this has an unusual level of complexity.
The director/writer Christopher Nolan, Directed and screen played his brothers short story “Memento.” “Inception” has the same “levels” (tongue in cheek spoiler) as “Memento” with all the atmosphere of “Dark City” and the thrills of Mission Impossible.
Al well balanced.
| 128 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:29:56pm |
re: #125 SilentAlfa
The host organism is hardly being ‘starved’. The top marginal tax rate was 91% under Eisenhower, 70% under Nixon. The rich survived then, and you know what? I think they can survive their tax rate increasing from 35% to 39%. Besides, raising taxes to cut down on the debt now will prevent interest from compounding—we will have less interest to pay on our debt later, and so taxes will then be able to fall again without compromising the budget situation.
Do we want to bite the bullet and start paying now, or try to pay an impossibly huge amount later?You are telling me we can cut spending drastically enough without raising taxes to cut the deficit. Tell me exactly what you are going to cut and why it won’t be damaging to us now and in the future. Somebody said the Department of Energy, but it seems to me that cutting America’s largest source of funding for research into alternate energy sources would be a bad idea when oil is bound to become increasingly expensive and America’s technology is one of its edges.
no at this point we have such a huge load to carry raising taxes is inevitable … we should never allowed it to get this far.
| 129 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:30:02pm |
re: #126 Walter L. Newton
They won’t let me take a cake into the movie theater.
They say the candles are too distracting.
| 130 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:30:20pm |
re: #123 engineer dog
about one third of federal expenditures, i think, are now borrowed every year. we could cut 1/3 of all expenditures across the board:
1/3 of all defense contracts let to private corporations to build military hardware and provide military services cut, therefore 1/3 less business for them
1/3 of all medicare payments to private hospitals, drug manufacturers, doctors and nurses, therefore 1/3 less of the part of their business that comes from medicare and medicaid for them
1/3 cut from social security payments, therefore 1/3 less money elderly people have to spend at the grocery and for rent and other things
any other suggestions about how to balance the budget?
yep…we’re fucked…my suggestion is to collect cash and stick it in the garden…your suggestion is to continue to raise taxes?….that will not work, the payers will not stand for it past the tipping point…
| 131 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:30:23pm |
re: #129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They won’t let me take a cake into the movie theater.
They say the candles are too distracting.
LOL.
| 132 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:31:11pm |
re: #116 albusteve
the path we are on will determine the outcome…as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t” koolaid you hear from every donk admin and their supporters
and yet you have not managed to refute any of it, nor offer anything we can cut. as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t tax” koolaid you hear from every gop admin and their supporters
looks like it works both ways too!
133 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:31:13pm |
Hi hi Lizaroids,
I just wanted to say that I did move to France, everything went well, and I’m getting adapted to things here. =)
I’m going to be traveling a *LOT* this month, by the way. I have a question though….(and please don’t think it’s a snobby question =P )
I realized all of a sudden that it’ll be near impossible to just walk into a bookstore in the Alps and buy English books. I read French pretty well but I still prefer reading books in English.
I therefore have a perfectly valid and totally good reason to buy either an iPad or a Kindle.
Now, I’m going to be traveling a LOT with my new job, so I’m thinking maybe an iPad is better so I can leave the laptop at home for the most part. But the Kindle is cheaper (hey, I’m not rich!) and has worldwide free 3G coverage. But I’m wondering how useful it is for browsing stuff online? I basically want to do gmail/browsing, reading with whatever “pad” I get. Kindle is like WAY cheaper and stuff, and I’m really liking the idea of the price and that it can do a lot. But will it be enough for basic computer needs? I’m thinking kinda not. =/
I would buy the iPad in the USA and have a friend send it to me, but then I wouldn’t be able to use 3G with it (as I’d need a European Orange or likewise other 3G SIMM card)….and frigging hell, the iPad is kinda pricey….
So, while bearing in mind that I still have enough to buy the iPad and stuff (at the 16GB end with 3G for now…I think that’ll be enough)…which would you get if you could?
Anyone have any insights? I don’t care about having a camera on my iPad because I have a beautiful Nikon that my work bought for me (it’s part of my job).
So yea…like what would you get and go with?
| 134 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:31:28pm |
re: #129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They won’t let me take a cake into the movie theater.
They say the candles are too distracting.
stuff in your cheeks
| 135 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:32:15pm |
re: #125 SilentAlfa
The host organism is hardly being ‘starved’. The top marginal tax rate was 91% under Eisenhower, 70% under Nixon. The rich survived then, and you know what? I think they can survive their tax rate increasing from 35% to 39%. Besides, raising taxes to cut down on the debt now will prevent interest from compounding—we will have less interest to pay on our debt later, and so taxes will then be able to fall again without compromising the budget situation.
Do we want to bite the bullet and start paying now, or try to pay an impossibly huge amount later?You are telling me we can cut spending drastically enough without raising taxes to cut the deficit. Tell me exactly what you are going to cut and why it won’t be damaging to us now and in the future. Somebody said the Department of Energy, but it seems to me that cutting America’s largest source of funding for research into alternate energy sources would be a bad idea when oil is bound to become increasingly expensive and America’s technology is one of its edges.
I think he means Dept of Educ, not Energy.
As for tax rates, don’t you remember the 90’s, when those increases of a few points destroyed the economy? Oh, that’s right, it didn’t…it actually helped balance the budget. Damn historical events.
| 136 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:32:24pm |
re: #128 brookly red
I still think I have a good idea.
I would gladly pay a five percent increase in my taxes, if 100% of that percentage went toward retiring the debt.
I would require in the law that any member of Congress who brought up a way to divert those funds toward other spending would immediately face a firing squad.
| 137 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:32:54pm |
re: #128 brookly red
no at this point we have such a huge load to carry raising taxes is inevitable … we should never allowed it to get this far.
i agree with you, yet, three quarters of the federal budget is dedicated to the military, health care, and pensions, and the money from all of those is paid back out mostly to private businesses, either immediately or as the next place that it is spent when the pensioners receive it
| 138 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:32:55pm |
re: #132 SilentAlfa
and yet you have not managed to refute any of it, nor offer anything we can cut. as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t tax” koolaid you hear from every gop admin and their supporters
looks like it works both ways too!
hire an expert to find waste?…shouldn’t be to hard
I can’t believe how naive people are, a large part of our economic woes
139 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:34:08pm |
re: #133 Summer
Have you considered getting a Kindle for the reading and a smartphone for the rest?
| 140 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:34:33pm |
re: #122 justaminute
Walter, I loved it. I saw it last night with our friends. Seeing it with an audience made me wonder how many understood it by the amount of groans from the spinning top at the end, there were not many. Leaving the movie, quite a few puzzled faces. I hated to write movie reviews in communications in college that’s why I didn’t respond earlier.
Well, groans because they were confused, or groans because they thought that was a cop out?
I saw the spinning top as saying nothing more than “be careful with this technology…. at some point you may not be able to tell… yadayadayada (I don’t want to spoil it)… but you can finish that sentence.
| 142 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:34:56pm |
re: #130 albusteve
yep…we’re fucked…my suggestion is to collect cash and stick it in the garden…your suggestion is to continue to raise taxes?…that will not work, the payers will not stand for it past the tipping point…
see:
re: #125 SilentAlfa
The host organism is hardly being ‘starved’. The top marginal tax rate was 91% under Eisenhower, 70% under Nixon. The rich survived then, and you know what? I think they can survive their tax rate increasing from 35% to 39%. Besides, raising taxes to cut down on the debt now will prevent interest from compounding—we will have less interest to pay on our debt later, and so taxes will then be able to fall again without compromising the budget situation.
| 143 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:35:42pm |
re: #138 albusteve
hire an expert to find waste?…shouldn’t be to hard
I can’t believe how naive people are, a large part of our economic woes
lol, hire some guy to find waste, and he will magically cut literally hundreds of billions of dollars out of the budget, no tax increases required.
is this a joke
| 144 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:36:13pm |
re: #133 Summer
Congratulations on the move. I’m very jealous. Enjoy it.
| 145 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:36:31pm |
re: #143 SilentAlfa
lol, hire some guy to find waste, and he will magically cut literally hundreds of billions of dollars out of the budget, no tax increases required.
is this a joke
Want to see a joke? Suggest cutting defense spending. Sit back and watch.
| 146 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:36:47pm |
re: #139 JasonA
I have but it’s hard to do real work on a smartphone. I had a Droid in the USA but it doesn’t work in France so I had to sell it to a friend (and she totally loves it). I’m probably gonna get an HTC or something, but as practical as a smartphone is, it’s not like carrying a laptop around. So yea, I dunno….
I was thinking of going the the Apple store tomorrow morning and looking at the iPads. I’ve never used one and I’m not a total fangirl that I HAVE to get anything Apple etc…. But I’m thinking it might be practical because I’m going to be traveling all over the world for my job in the coming months. I just dunno yet….honestly I could probably save my money instead for a bit, but I’m starting to travel a lot in like ten days or something so I’m thinking maybe getting it soon would be a good idea….
| 147 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:37:23pm |
re: #142 engineer dog
taxpayers don’t care about history…otherwise they would never have elected BO who has put the US in a state of economic crisis…if it was bad before, it’s about four times worse now
| 148 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:38:25pm |
re: #132 SilentAlfa
and yet you have not managed to refute any of it, nor offer anything we can cut. as for your post, most of it is the same old “we can’t tax” koolaid you hear from every gop admin and their supporters
looks like it works both ways too!
OK, I being unemployed went to check out a Federally funded stated program to sign up for some “free” web development classes just for fun… why dose it take 5 state employees to give a 20 minuet powerpoint presentation?
| 149 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:38:47pm |
re: #144 Killgore Trout
Congratulations on the move. I’m very jealous. Enjoy it.
Almost everyone around you has something to be jealous of in life. It’s better to focus on what you have for others to be jealous of rather than what you should be jealous of in others. =)
You may now eat the fortune cookie.
| 150 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:38:51pm |
re: #143 SilentAlfa
lol, hire some guy to find waste, and he will magically cut literally hundreds of billions of dollars out of the budget, no tax increases required.
is this a joke
I never said no taxes were required hot shot, and I never mentioned magic…your snark won’t work on me
| 151 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:38:56pm |
re: #140 Walter L. Newton
Well, groans because they were confused, or groans because they thought that was a cop out?
I saw the spinning top as saying nothing more than “be careful with this technology… at some point you may not be able to tell… yadayadayada (I don’t want to spoil it)… but you can finish that sentence.
Because you never got to see if the top would fall like it was suggesting or not and it left the audience hanging.
| 152 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:39:26pm |
re: #135 palomino
I think he means Dept of Educ, not Energy.
As for tax rates, don’t you remember the 90’s, when those increases of a few points destroyed the economy? Oh, that’s right, it didn’t…it actually helped balance the budget. Damn historical events.
heh
it would be helpful for the proponents of “taxes up, economy down; taxes down, economy up” it their theory would ever correspond to events
in the 90s, the explanation of the clinton administration for the business boom after their tax increases was that business could see that the government had become serious about doing a better job of balancing the federal budget and therefore had more confidence that there would be a better investment climate
| 153 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:39:43pm |
re: #145 JasonA
Want to see a joke? Suggest cutting defense spending. Sit back and watch.
not me…pull out of Afghanistan tomorrow
| 155 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:40:04pm |
re: #146 Summer
Almost sounds like you really should be lugging around a laptop. :/
| 156 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:40:40pm |
re: #147 albusteve
taxpayers don’t care about history…otherwise they would never have elected BO who has put the US in a state of economic crisis…if it was bad before, it’s about four times worse now
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
| 157 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:40:59pm |
re: #149 Summer
Almost everyone around you has something to be jealous of in life. It’s better to focus on what you have for others to be jealous of rather than what you should be jealous of in others. =)
You may now eat the fortune cookie.
Are you coming on to him?
/
| 158 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:41:56pm |
re: #156 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
the feds
| 159 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:42:24pm |
re: #156 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
well it started with a quite while back…
| 160 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:42:49pm |
| 161 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:42:56pm |
re: #154 jaunte
Summer, are you still selling stuff in SL?
Of course I am! I have my own sim with my sister there which we’ve been doing it. It’s really pretty.
re: #155 JasonA
Almost sounds like you really should be lugging around a laptop. :/
I have a beautiful 17” laptop, quad core pro, 4 gigs ram, Nvidia 8800 GTS with 1 Gig on board. However…it’s heavy as hell and much as I love it…I kinda wanna do without lugging it around all the time. It’s like carrying a ton of bricks. (And before anyone gets jealous, I got it for work. =P I couldn’t afford it otherwise.)
| 162 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:43:16pm |
re: #143 SilentAlfa
lol, hire some guy to find waste, and he will magically cut literally hundreds of billions of dollars out of the budget, no tax increases required… is this a joke
6,600 Arlington Cemetery Graves May Be Labeled Wrong
Top 10 Examples of Government Waste
Honestly… are you a joke… how many links would you like me to give you to help get you started? Or is your Google-fu broken.
163 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:44:14pm |
re: #161 Summer
My wife designed a desert oasis roleplay/marketplace sim called zolio in SL; you should go say hi!
| 164 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:44:34pm |
re: #156 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
try to stop the wind behind your eyeballs…
Youtube Video
| 165 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:44:47pm |
| 166 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:44:50pm |
re: #162 Walter L. Newton
6,600 Arlington Cemetery Graves May Be Labeled Wrong
Top 10 Examples of Government Waste
Honestly… are you a joke… how many links would you like me to give you to help get you started? Or is your Google-fu broken.
eeeh, how bout a few more ?
| 167 |
justaminute Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:45:16pm |
Sorry Walter, got to go but I know the couple with us liked it but had a lot of questions at the end and they did not really understand anything about the significance of the top. If they didn’t get it, they didn’t really get the whole movie. Sorry if I can’t respond but husband is ready to go. I’ll check this thread later for your answer sorry.
| 168 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:45:54pm |
re: #156 engineer dog
You might be going in with your eyes open, but just in case…
Steve likes to bait and get into fights with ‘progs’ or ‘donks’, as he sees ‘em.
| 169 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:46:09pm |
re: #150 albusteve
I never said no taxes were required hot shot, and I never mentioned magic…your snark won’t work on me
thats right, all you said was
“there is enough bloat in govt to get us to a reasonable deficit in a few short years if it were liposuctioned out…taxes down the black hole”
sounds like magic to me, just cutting literally hundreds of billion dollars out of the government through miscellaneous and unspecified waste, whereas taxes are just money down a black hole huh.
re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I did mean Educ.
My apologies, then, I didn’t mean to misstate your position.
| 170 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:47:07pm |
re: #168 windsagio
You might be going in with your eyes open, but just in case…
Steve likes to bait and get into fights with ‘progs’ or ‘donks’, as he sees ‘em.
He’s just returning the favors around here.
| 171 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:47:22pm |
re: #161 Summer
I have a beautiful 17” laptop, quad core pro, 4 gigs ram, Nvidia 8800 GTS with 1 Gig on board. However…it’s heavy as hell and much as I love it…I kinda wanna do without lugging it around all the time. It’s like carrying a ton of bricks. (And before anyone gets jealous, I got it for work. =P I couldn’t afford it otherwise.)
Okay, sounds like what you really want is a MacBook Air. But you don’t want to spend that much. You know, someone posted a link to an iPad competitor on here not too long ago that was far less expensive. Does anyone remember that?
| 172 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:47:29pm |
re: #168 windsagio
You might be going in with your eyes open, but just in case…
Steve likes to bait and get into fights with ‘progs’ or ‘donks’, as he sees ‘em.
/ arrgh, fill yer hand, moonbat…
173 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:48:19pm |
re: #133 Summer
Hi hi Lizaroids,
I just wanted to say that I did move to France, everything went well, and I’m getting adapted to things here. =)
I’m going to be traveling a *LOT* this month, by the way. I have a question though…(and please don’t think it’s a snobby question =P )
I realized all of a sudden that it’ll be near impossible to just walk into a bookstore in the Alps and buy English books. I read French pretty well but I still prefer reading books in English.
I therefore have a perfectly valid and totally good reason to buy either an iPad or a Kindle.
Now, I’m going to be traveling a LOT with my new job, so I’m thinking maybe an iPad is better so I can leave the laptop at home for the most part. But the Kindle is cheaper (hey, I’m not rich!) and has worldwide free 3G coverage. But I’m wondering how useful it is for browsing stuff online? I basically want to do gmail/browsing, reading with whatever “pad” I get. Kindle is like WAY cheaper and stuff, and I’m really liking the idea of the price and that it can do a lot. But will it be enough for basic computer needs? I’m thinking kinda not. =/
I would buy the iPad in the USA and have a friend send it to me, but then I wouldn’t be able to use 3G with it (as I’d need a European Orange or likewise other 3G SIMM card)…and frigging hell, the iPad is kinda pricey…
So, while bearing in mind that I still have enough to buy the iPad and stuff (at the 16GB end with 3G for now…I think that’ll be enough)…which would you get if you could?
Anyone have any insights? I don’t care about having a camera on my iPad because I have a beautiful Nikon that my work bought for me (it’s part of my job).
So yea…like what would you get and go with?
A Kindle will NOT be adequate for what you want to do.
Get the iPad.
| 174 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:48:22pm |
re: #147 albusteve
taxpayers don’t care about history…otherwise they would never have elected BO who has put the US in a state of economic crisis…if it was bad before, it’s about four times worse now
Serious question: what should he have done instead?
| 175 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:48:22pm |
re: #163 jaunte
My wife designed a desert oasis roleplay/marketplace sim called zolio in SL; you should go say hi!
Have her IM me! I’m Summer Seale. I won’t remember tomorrow because it’s like 12:45am here and I’m gonna curl up and sleep soon. =) But she can IM me and I’ll get it in world or in email (both, actually). K?
I’m thinking I’ll go to the Apple store tomorrow morning and then like check it out and see and then decide. The one thing with the Kindle is that I’d have to wait for it and I leave probably before it’ll get here to France, which would kinda suck because I wouldn’t have it for another two weeks after (cuz I’ll be traveling….)
I dunno. I guess I’m really kinda hesitating about spending the money, but also kinda want to get something practical before I go.
Anyway, I might check a few more messages before I sleep but if I don’t write back, goodnight everyone and thanks for the replies. Muahs. =)
BTW, anyone notice I have like totally killer karma for my small amounts of posts!? =) You guys must totally
| 176 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:48:36pm |
re: #171 JasonA
Okay, sounds like what you really want is a MacBook Air. But you don’t want to spend that much. You know, someone posted a link to an iPad competitor on here not too long ago that was far less expensive. Does anyone remember that?
Just it was called “IPottoPissIN”
| 178 |
Summer Seale Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:50:28pm |
re: #175 Summer
Argh I was gonna say you guys must totally heart me. =) Stupid parsing stuff….too tired to check.
Well I heart you guys too. Muahs. Night everyone and thank you reine for your reply. I’ll go check it out tomorrow. I think the 16G would be enough for me for now. I can wing that.
See you all and thank you again. =)
| 179 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:50:42pm |
re: #133 Summer
Or you could just hop on the TGV and rail over to Shakespeare’s In Paris? Be there and back in a jiffy, make a day of shopping out of it.
By the way… where in France, the Alps. town?
| 180 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:50:48pm |
re: #168 windsagio
You might be going in with your eyes open, but just in case…
Steve likes to bait and get into fights with ‘progs’ or ‘donks’, as he sees ‘em.
more poodle clutter
stfu
| 181 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:50:50pm |
re: #174 palomino
Serious question: what should he have done instead?
/well between McCain & Obama I guess the only reasonable option would have been to beg Bush to stay…
| 182 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:51:43pm |
re: #174 palomino
Serious question: what should he have done instead?
i’m old enough to remember when ronald reagan was going to balance the budget by cutting taxes
| 183 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:52:35pm |
re: #181 brookly red
/well between McCain & Obama I guess the only reasonable option would have been to beg Bush to stay…
No, seriously, I’m curious as to what you think Obama did to make the situation so much worse.
| 184 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:53:27pm |
re: #168 windsagio
You might be going in with your eyes open, but just in case…
Steve likes to bait and get into fights with ‘progs’ or ‘donks’, as he sees ‘em.
Never heard anyone else say ‘donk’. Is that a dittohead term?
| 185 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:54:36pm |
re: #183 palomino
No, seriously, I’m curious as to what you think Obama did to make the situation so much worse.
easy he increase a bad deficit into a killa deficit… Oh shit we are in debt! Spend more! F’n brilliant.
| 187 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:55:23pm |
re: #174 palomino
Serious question: what should he have done instead?
skip the car biz bailouts
skip the Stimulus
pass HCR in pieces parts
get out of Astan
stop funding NPR
make way for atomic power
sell the WH
| 188 |
windsagio Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:56:07pm |
re: #184 palomino
I’ve mainly heard Steve use it… less than he used to lately tho’.
| 189 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:56:14pm |
re: #187 albusteve
skip the car biz bailouts
skip the Stimulus
pass HCR in pieces parts
get out of Astan
stop funding NPR
make way for atomic power
sell the WH
the WH has been sold enough thank you.
| 190 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:56:18pm |
re: #184 palomino
Never heard anyone else say ‘donk’. Is that a dittohead term?
yes, it applies to you
| 191 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:56:37pm |
| 193 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:56:49pm |
re: #158 re: #156 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
albusteve
the feds
and exactly what was it that the bush administration and the republican congress did to take the american economy from boom to bust in eight short years?
| 194 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:57:14pm |
| 195 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:59:16pm |
re: #192 windsagio
lol zing! Have to say I laughed :)
well in fact the WH has been sold so many times it’s like a scene from the Producers…
196 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 3:59:29pm |
re: #193 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
albusteve
and exactly what was it that the bush administration and the republican congress did to take the american economy from boom to bust in eight short years?
Republican Congress for 8 years….heh
| 197 |
SilentAlfa Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:00:40pm |
re: #162 Walter L. Newton
6,600 Arlington Cemetery Graves May Be Labeled Wrong
Top 10 Examples of Government Waste
Honestly… are you a joke… how many links would you like me to give you to help get you started? Or is your Google-fu broken.
Ok, what’s the plan? We got a trillion dollars to cut down on here, you guys think we can do this without tax increase? Lets take that heritage.org link, it contains some great examples of legitimate waste to cut down on. Starting with #1, we cut out $25 billion, assuming that we can find exactly every case of waste everywhere that went unreported. #2, we cut out $100 million. Then, $5.8 million more. $1 million more cut from DoD for ridiculous misuse of funds. We reform medicare, $30 billion more, assuming the absolute best case scenario. Assuming we catch absolutely every single case of fraud and prevent each and every one of those students from defaulting, $21.8 billion more. An unspecified amount saved from the Army Corps of Engineers, perhaps $2 billion assuming that an astounding 40% of their budget on dams is unneccesary. We prevent states from abusing $70 billion of funding assuming we root out every single case—but what this forgets is that this money wasn’t simply “waste”—it went to the state governments. Same as just taking money from the states. $8.5 billion is recovered from tax refunds.
We have saved a total of: 157 billion dollars. And these are the top ten examples of waste, the absolutely most egregious. Let’s assume we recover the $3 billion from Afghanistan too.
$160 billion saved—not pennies to be certain, but the deficit still stands at 1.24 trillion dollars. Looks like we still have to raise taxes!
| 198 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:00:43pm |
re: #193 engineer dog
???
excuse me?
who put the united states in a state of economic crisis???
albusteve
and exactly what was it that the bush administration and the republican congress did to take the american economy from boom to bust in eight short years?
Schumer
Frank
Obama
| 199 |
Four More Tears Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:00:48pm |
The second unhappy change in the American economy has been the extraordinary growth of our public debt. In 1970 it was just 40 percent of gross domestic product, or about $425 billion. When it reaches $18 trillion, it will be 40 times greater than in 1970. This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.
David Stockman, a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, is working on a book about the financial crisis.
| 200 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:01:56pm |
re: #197 SilentAlfa
Ok, what’s the plan? We got a trillion dollars to cut down on here, you guys think we can do this without tax increase? Lets take that heritage.org link, it contains some great examples of legitimate waste to cut down on. Starting with #1, we cut out $25 billion, assuming that we can find exactly every case of waste everywhere that went unreported. #2, we cut out $100 million. Then, $5.8 million more. $1 million more cut from DoD for ridiculous misuse of funds. We reform medicare, $30 billion more, assuming the absolute best case scenario. Assuming we catch absolutely every single case of fraud and prevent each and every one of those students from defaulting, $21.8 billion more. An unspecified amount saved from the Army Corps of Engineers, perhaps $2 billion assuming that an astounding 40% of their budget on dams is unneccesary. We prevent states from abusing $70 billion of funding assuming we root out every single case—but what this forgets is that this money wasn’t simply “waste”—it went to the state governments. Same as just taking money from the states. $8.5 billion is recovered from tax refunds.
We have saved a total of: 157 billion dollars. And these are the top ten examples of waste, the absolutely most egregious. Let’s assume we recover the $3 billion from Afghanistan too.
$160 billion saved—not pennies to be certain, but the deficit still stands at 1.24 trillion dollars. Looks like we still have to raise taxes!
You first.
| 201 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:02:16pm |
re: #185 brookly red
easy he increase a bad deficit into a killa deficit… Oh shit we are in debt! Spend more! F’n brilliant.
Take away his additions to the debt (stim, bail, etc) and you’re still left with 1 trillion+. He did what any president who doesn’t want to be called Herbert Hoover, Jr. would have done. Most of the debt is structural or tied to the wars and tax cuts.
202 |
Sacred Plants Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:02:51pm |
| 203 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:02:53pm |
re: #197 SilentAlfa
Ok, what’s the plan? We got a trillion dollars to cut down on here, you guys think we can do this without tax increase? Lets take that heritage.org link, it contains some great examples of legitimate waste to cut down on. Starting with #1, we cut out $25 billion, assuming that we can find exactly every case of waste everywhere that went unreported. #2, we cut out $100 million. Then, $5.8 million more. $1 million more cut from DoD for ridiculous misuse of funds. We reform medicare, $30 billion more, assuming the absolute best case scenario. Assuming we catch absolutely every single case of fraud and prevent each and every one of those students from defaulting, $21.8 billion more. An unspecified amount saved from the Army Corps of Engineers, perhaps $2 billion assuming that an astounding 40% of their budget on dams is unneccesary. We prevent states from abusing $70 billion of funding assuming we root out every single case—but what this forgets is that this money wasn’t simply “waste”—it went to the state governments. Same as just taking money from the states. $8.5 billion is recovered from tax refunds.
We have saved a total of: 157 billion dollars. And these are the top ten examples of waste, the absolutely most egregious. Let’s assume we recover the $3 billion from Afghanistan too.
$160 billion saved—not pennies to be certain, but the deficit still stands at 1.24 trillion dollars. Looks like we still have to raise taxes!
Wow… the deficit is at 1.24 trillion dollars. I didn’t realize that? I must have been hibernating over the winter, cause last time I checked, it was no where near that high.
How did it get that high?
| 204 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:03:16pm |
re: #187 albusteve
skip the car biz bailouts
skip the Stimulus
pass HCR in pieces parts
get out of Astan
stop funding NPR
make way for atomic power
sell the WH
Most of those are reasonable. BUT you’d still have a deficit of over a trillion. I know he’s not your cup of tea, but blaming most of this on him isn’t really fair.
| 205 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:03:32pm |
| 206 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:03:58pm |
| 207 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:04:24pm |
| 208 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:04:42pm |
re: #204 palomino
Most of those are reasonable. BUT you’d still have a deficit of over a trillion. I know he’s not your cup of tea, but blaming most of this on him isn’t really fair.
the rest I blame on you
| 209 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:05:18pm |
re: #198 albusteve
Schumer
Frank
Obama
seriously, albusteve, i’d appreciate an explanation of what you think caused the economic collapse
| 210 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:05:55pm |
re: #205 engineer dog
the bush administration, and the republican leadership in congress 1995 - 2007, was apparently composed of a few democratic senators and representatives
Bush and McCain both warned congress that FM/FM was about to fall apart
| 211 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:06:21pm |
re: #204 palomino
Most of those are reasonable. BUT you’d still have a deficit of over a trillion. I know he’s not your cup of tea, but blaming most of this on him isn’t really fair.
Hmmm, 1 trillion vs 16 trillion I guess your right, what is another 16 billion?
| 212 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:06:30pm |
| 214 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:06:37pm |
re: #187 albusteve
skip the car biz bailouts
hey - it would have only led to the immediate unemployment of 5 million people or so… no big deal
/
| 215 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:07:18pm |
re: #210 albusteve
Bush and McCain both warned congress that FM/FM was about to fall apart
It’s all fannie and freddie’s fault. I know cuz Palin and Hannity told me.
| 216 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:07:23pm |
re: #209 engineer dog
seriously, albusteve, i’d appreciate an explanation of what you think caused the economic collapse
Under regulation of the mortgage industry
Under regulation of the banking industry
People buying houses they could not afford assuming they could carry the interest only mortgage for a couple years and reap a huge profit.
Just off the top of my head.
| 217 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:09:09pm |
re: #214 engineer dog
hey - it would have only led to the immediate unemployment of 5 million people or so… no big deal
/
because what we really needed was a repeat of 1929-1940.
| 218 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:09:38pm |
re: #214 engineer dog
hey - it would have only led to the immediate unemployment of 5 million people or so… no big deal
/
Does that include the scrap yard workers who destroyed all the 5 year old cars which were destroyed?
| 219 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:10:36pm |
re: #216 rwdflynavy
Under regulation of the mortgage industry
Under regulation of the banking industryPeople buying houses they could not afford assuming they could carry the interest only mortgage for a couple years and reap a huge profit.
Just off the top of my head.
yes, and i’d add alan greenspan’s explanation that, contrary to his long held belief, people making the big decisions in the credit market would not, necessarily, overall, make wise decisions about how to gamble with everybody’s money if only they were left to their own devices
| 220 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:12:31pm |
re: #219 engineer dog
yes, and i’d add alan greenspan’s explanation that, contrary to his long held belief, people making the big decisions in the credit market would not, necessarily, overall, make wise decisions about how to gamble with everybody’s money if only they were left to their own devices
Banks unless pressured to do so seldom make bad loans…
| 221 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:14:59pm |
re: #218 rwdflynavy
Does that include the scrap yard workers who destroyed all the 5 year old cars which were destroyed?
I have often wondered why car makers don’t just build to order?
| 222 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:15:38pm |
re: #221 brookly red
I have often wondered why car makers don’t just build to order?
OK that is not true I know the answer.
| 223 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:15:53pm |
re: #221 brookly red
I have often wondered why car makers don’t just build to order?
One of the provisions of the cash for clunkers legislation was destroying the “clunker’s” engine block. What a waste!
| 224 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:16:48pm |
re: #223 rwdflynavy
One of the provisions of the cash for clunkers legislation was destroying the “clunker’s” engine block. What a waste!
internal combustion badddd, must destroy internal combustion.
| 225 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:17:16pm |
re: #220 brookly red
Banks unless pressured to do so seldom make bad loans…
what i was referring to was the fact that it wasn’t so much the bad loans that caused the crisis as it was the house of cards of “securitized mortages” that managers at so many financial institutions of all kinds unwisely bet the farm on
banks and insurance companies make profits mostly on investments, and they need to calculate the soundness of insurance policies and loans only to the extent that the losses there are not bad enough to impact the investment profits
that’s why they were so tempted by betting on these crazy new investments
| 227 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:18:46pm |
re: #211 brookly red
Hmmm, 1 trillion vs 16 trillion I guess your right, what is another 16 billion?
There is no 1 trillion vs 16 trillion. There’s the deficit now vs. what it would have been without stim, bailout, etc. Which is 1.4 trillion vs. 1.2 trillion, roughly.
Tell me how Bush in his third term would have corralled those deficits.
Blame it all on Obama all you want. That’s nothing but a partisan talking point. The recession and inherited policies drive most of the deficit.
True, Obama hasn’t done much to cut the deficit. But, like Cheney said, “If you guys don’t pass the bailouts, it’s Herbert Hoover time.” No president was gonna just let the economy collapse to prove a point that bailing out banks, insurance companies, etc. is bad.
| 228 |
Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:20:27pm |
re: #199 JasonA
IF there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation’s public debt — if honestly reckoned to include municipal bonds and the $7 trillion of new deficits baked into the cake through 2015 — will soon reach $18 trillion. That’s a Greece-scale 120 percent of gross domestic product, and fairly screams out for austerity and sacrifice.
It is therefore unseemly for the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, to insist that the nation’s wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase.
David Stockman, oh my.
| 229 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:21:08pm |
re: #225 engineer dog
what i was referring to was the fact that it wasn’t so much the bad loans that caused the crisis as it was the house of cards of “securitized mortages” that managers at so many financial institutions of all kinds unwisely bet the farm on
banks and insurance companies make profits mostly on investments, and they need to calculate the soundness of insurance policies and loans only to the extent that the losses there are not bad enough to impact the investment profits
that’s why they were so tempted by betting on these crazy new investments
i should add that i worked in a reinsurance company for several years - reinsurance is insurance that insurance companies take out to cover themselves if they lose too much money on any group of insurance policies - there are legal requirements for them to cover their policies this way
| 230 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:21:41pm |
re: #225 engineer dog
what i was referring to was the fact that it wasn’t so much the bad loans that caused the crisis as it was the house of cards of “securitized mortages” that managers at so many financial institutions of all kinds unwisely bet the farm on
banks and insurance companies make profits mostly on investments, and they need to calculate the soundness of insurance policies and loans only to the extent that the losses there are not bad enough to impact the investment profits
that’s why they were so tempted by betting on these crazy new investments
When the loans that made up the securities started going into foreclosure, guess what happens?
I was living in DC in 03-05 and lots of friends were buying huge expensive houses with interest only mortgages cause you “couldn’t lose!!!” They lost. I bought a house in Jacksonville FL that I could afford with a boring 30 year fixed mortgage. It is worth about 3/4s of what I owe, but I can still afford my payment…
| 231 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:22:09pm |
re: #227 palomino
No president was gonna just let the economy collapse to prove a point that bailing out banks, insurance companies, etc. is bad.
| 232 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:23:11pm |
| 233 |
Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:25:55pm |
re: #220 brookly red
Banks unless pressured to do so seldom make bad loans…
You know this is not true. A whole new business model was created to make money off of bad loans. And they all made that money until the collapse. They were perfectly happy continuing to do so, if it was able to sustain itself.
| 234 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:27:16pm |
re: #230 rwdflynavy
When the loans that made up the securities started going into foreclosure, guess what happens?
I was living in DC in 03-05 and lots of friends were buying huge expensive houses with interest only mortgages cause you “couldn’t lose!!!” They lost. I bought a house in Jacksonville FL that I could afford with a boring 30 year fixed mortgage. It is worth about 3/4s of what I owe, but I can still afford my payment…
the point is that the damage would have been considerably less if the bad loans hadn’t been bundled up into a completely different class of investments
banks are used to dealing with bad loans, but the tempting prospect of all the money they could make on bad loans as “securitized” instruments is what killed us
once more - banks don’t make most of their profits on the loans themselves - they make most of their profits on the investments they make with the money they handle
| 235 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:28:01pm |
re: #233 Stanley Sea
You know this is not true. A whole new business model was created to make money off of bad loans. And they all made that money until the collapse. They were perfectly happy continuing to do so, if it was able to sustain itself.
Exactly. The were making money off the origination fees then sold the loan to someone else. That why the Financial reform bill requires banks retain at least part of every loan the make.
| 236 |
dog philosopher Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:28:42pm |
anyway, this discussion today has been fun, but madame dog requires my presence
later…
| 237 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:29:22pm |
re: #233 Stanley Sea
You know this is not true. A whole new business model was created to make money off of bad loans. And they all made that money until the collapse. They were perfectly happy continuing to do so, if it was able to sustain itself.
Look, dammit, Adam Smith wrote about an invisible hand 250 years ago. You can’t prove it doesn’t exist. What are you, an atheist?
238 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:29:29pm |
Hey all! I had to go to a meeting, and missed most of the last thread! I ain’t going back and reading it, neither!!
| 239 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:30:05pm |
re: #237 palomino
Look, dammit, Adam Smith wrote about an invisible hand 250 years ago. You can’t prove it doesn’t exist. What are you, an atheist?
I was OK with the invisible hand of the market. It was when Schlafly’s boy discovered the invisible hand of marriage that I got nervous.
240 |
webevintage Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:33:03pm |
| 241 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:34:45pm |
re: #240 webevintage
I am…
For some reason, this reminds me of Foamy the Squirrel’s rant on the Atkin’s Diet.
| 242 |
ausador Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:36:12pm |
Gee, imagine that, after two days of the networks (especially FOX) trumpeting B.P.’s possibly “illegal over-use of dispersants.” Along comes the E.P.A. to finally acknowledge that B.P.s use of them was perfectly fine with them and also was actually approved by them. Just another Non-troversy, except this time aimed at a corporation (an “evil foreign” one too!) instead of at Obama.
| 243 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:38:08pm |
re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist
I was OK with the invisible hand of the market. It was when Schlafly’s boy discovered the invisible hand of marriage that I got nervous.
That Schlafly kid is a hoot. Looks like a serial killer. There’s a lot of Jeffrey Dahmer in his eyes.
His Conservapedia is one of the funniest things on the net, unintentionally of course. The entry on Obama begins “BHO is the 44th, and first Muslim, president of the US.”
His appearance on Colbert was great. He just smiled that serial killer smile and giggled the whole time, apparently unaware that he was being eviscerated.
| 244 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:38:29pm |
re: #242 ausador
Gee, imagine that, after two days of the networks (especially FOX) trumpeting B.P.’s possibly “illegal over-use of dispersants.” Along comes the E.P.A. to finally acknowledge that B.P.s use of them was perfectly fine with them and also was actually approved by them. Just another Non-troversy, except this time aimed at a corporation (an “evil foreign” one too!) instead of at Obama.
Are we sure that Obama isn’t just pressuring the EPA to cover up for BP’s illegal overuse of dispersants?
///
| 245 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:38:46pm |
| 246 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:39:44pm |
re: #242 ausador
Gee, imagine that, after two days of the networks (especially FOX) trumpeting B.P.’s possibly “illegal over-use of dispersants.” Along comes the E.P.A. to finally acknowledge that B.P.s use of them was perfectly fine with them and also was actually approved by them. Just another Non-troversy, except this time aimed at a corporation (an “evil foreign” one too!) instead of at Obama.
I thought it was un-American to criticize BP.
| 247 |
webevintage Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:40:49pm |
re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist
For some reason, this reminds me of Foamy the Squirrel’s rant on the Atkin’s Diet.
hahahahaha
I like being a fat CUTE bastard…..
| 248 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:41:35pm |
re: #243 palomino
That Schlafly kid is a hoot. Looks like a serial killer. There’s a lot of Jeffrey Dahmer in his eyes.
His Conservapedia is one of the funniest things on the net, unintentionally of course. The entry on Obama begins “BHO is the 44th, and first Muslim, president of the US.”
His appearance on Colbert was great. He just smiled that serial killer smile and giggled the whole time, apparently unaware that he was being eviscerated.
It’s hard not to imagine that some of the stuff he writes is a joke of some sort…but I think he means it all.
I am personally fond of the Invisible Hand of Marriage, also the scenarios explaining why you should marry a conservative.
249 |
Varek Raith Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:41:43pm |
re: #246 palomino
I thought it was un-American to criticize BP.
It is.
It is also un-Merikan to call BP “British Petroleum”.
/Wingnut “logic”
| 250 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:41:48pm |
re: #215 palomino
It’s all fannie and freddie’s fault. I know cuz Palin and Hannity told me.
take your lumps like a man
Palin and Hannity have nothing to do with it, child
| 251 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:42:34pm |
re: #247 webevintage
hahahahaha
I like being a fat CUTE bastard…
If you’re a fat bastard, be a fat bastard!!
If you’re an anorexic with thyroid problems, fine! Be a twit!!
| 252 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:43:59pm |
re: #250 albusteve
take your lumps like a man
Palin and Hannity have nothing to do with it, child
I don’t get it, gramps. You dish it out with a shovel but you can’t take any of it in return.
| 253 |
Stanley Sea Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:44:40pm |
re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s hard not to imagine that some of the stuff he writes is a joke of some sort…but I think he means it all.
I am personally fond of the Invisible Hand of Marriage, also the scenarios explaining why you should marry a conservative.
Is that the one with the situational anecdotes? Like, conservative guy dates liberal girl (slut, 2 abortions etc.) ?????
| 254 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:44:48pm |
re: #242 ausador
Gee, imagine that, after two days of the networks (especially FOX) trumpeting B.P.’s possibly “illegal over-use of dispersants.” Along comes the E.P.A. to finally acknowledge that B.P.s use of them was perfectly fine with them and also was actually approved by them. Just another Non-troversy, except this time aimed at a corporation (an “evil foreign” one too!) instead of at Obama.
EPA or the on-scene person did approve the use of dispersants; however, there were questions about the particular dispersant BP was using (corexit) - it had NOT been tested for use in the conditions and amounts under which BP was using it.
Not a complete nontroversy; but at this point, it’s moot anyhow. BP quit using the dispersants when the got the thing capped.
255 |
Targetpractice Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:45:46pm |
re: #249 Varek Raith
It is.
It is also un-Merikan to call BP “British Petroleum”.
/Wingnut “logic”
I wish I had a handy, concise list of all the things that the wingnuts consider “un-American.”
Probably longer than “War and Peace.”
| 256 |
albusteve Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:45:49pm |
re: #252 palomino
I don’t get it, gramps. You dish it out with a shovel but you can’t take any of it in return.
and btw, thanks for your tax dollars…they are well spent
| 257 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:45:56pm |
re: #249 Varek Raith
It is.
It is also un-Merikan to call BP “British Petroleum”.
/Wingnut “logic”
Well, I’m NOT going to call them “Beyond Petroleum”. There are limits. It’s like when your niece comes home from college and announces that she’s only using her lesbian pagan name that cane to her in a dream from now on. If you’re blood of my blood, I’ll choke it up and call you Soulflower Indigo. But you know she’s Angie, and you know BP is still British Petroleum.
| 258 |
webevintage Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:46:03pm |
I think the front of Huffpo today with Greenspan looks hi-larious.
huffingtonpost.com
| 259 |
Varek Raith Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:47:54pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, I’m NOT going to call them “Beyond Petroleum”. There are limits. It’s like when your niece comes home from college and announces that she’s only using her lesbian pagan name that cane to her in a dream from now on. If you’re blood of my blood, I’ll choke it up and call you Soulflower Indigo. But you know she’s Angie, and you know BP is still British Petroleum.
XD
| 260 |
Targetpractice Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:48:15pm |
re: #258 webevintage
I think the front of Huffpo today with Greenspan looks hi-larious.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Greenspan getting lashed in the court of public opinion not too long ago and being accused of having helped create the “Bush Recession”?
| 261 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:48:19pm |
re: #256 albusteve
and btw, thanks for your tax dollars…they are well spent
your very welcome, just doing my patriotic duty so we can fight more multi-trillion dollar wars
| 262 |
palomino Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:49:50pm |
re: #260 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Greenspan getting lashed in the court of public opinion not too long ago and being accused of having helped create the “Bush Recession”?
Yeah, he was a big supporter of tax cuts 10 years ago, arguing that the surpluses of the late 90s were a mistake.
| 263 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:50:09pm |
re: #253 Stanley Sea
Is that the one with the situational anecdotes? Like, conservative guy dates liberal girl (slut, 2 abortions etc.) ???
Yeah. They all end with the people who married liberals broke, suicidal, or with VD. I wish Andy would get Jack Chick’s people to illustrate them. Apparently there are some things the Invisible Hand of Marriage can’t solve.
According to Andy, these are some of the benefits of marrying a conservative:
Freedom from sexually transmitted diseases and their harm (including infertility)
Fidelity in marriage and accountability
Lack of hostility to faith, no censorship of prayer
Frugality and freedom from burdens of big spending and debt
Respect for the Ten Commandments and opposition to deceit
Respect for a work ethic, and rejection of an entitlement mentality
Appreciates the importance of a conservative culture in raising children
No confusion over who is the homemaker and who is the breadwinner; recognizing the benefits of division of labor
Recognizing that values do matter and do have serious consequences
Having values powerful enough to overcome addiction, such as drinking, gambling, pornography, obesity and smoking
Freedom from the liberal media and Hollywood values, and their misguided promotions and fads
A relationship where issues and problems can be openly discussed, free from the ideological shackles of Liberal beliefs, Liberal denial and political correctness.
| 264 |
webevintage Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:50:35pm |
re: #260 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Greenspan getting lashed in the court of public opinion not too long ago and being accused of having helped create the “Bush Recession”?
I guess he has learned his lesson….
I just think the picture is funny with the big read screaming DISASTROUS over it…..
| 265 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:51:16pm |
re: #255 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I wish I had a handy, concise list of all the things that the wingnuts consider “un-American.”
Probably longer than “War and Peace.”
I once lived next door, in college, to a woman who had a tape of her little sister, explaining in the thickest Maine accent I have ever heard, what things are and are not “Suyyyyy-tanic”.
She would bring it out at parties. It was a classic.
| 266 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:52:27pm |
re: #261 palomino
your very welcome, just doing my patriotic duty so we can fight more multi-trillion dollar wars
Wars don’t cost anything! Wars CREATE wealth. What’s the matter with you?
///Extreme. I’m in that kind of a mood.
| 267 |
Targetpractice Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:52:54pm |
re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist
I once lived next door, in college, to a woman who had a tape of her little sister, explaining in the thickest Maine accent I have ever heard, what things are and are not “Suyyy-tanic”.
She would bring it out at parties. It was a classic.
LMAO
| 268 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:54:15pm |
re: #267 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
LMAO
Apparently little sister was offended by a sermon one Sunday, and broke out the tape recorder when they got home.
269 |
Firstinla Sun, Aug 1, 2010 4:55:13pm |
re: #262 palomino
And all this time I thought the Invisible Hand of Marriage was what caused wet dreams/
| 270 |
Targetpractice Sun, Aug 1, 2010 5:01:39pm |
re: #268 SanFranciscoZionist
Apparently little sister was offended by a sermon one Sunday, and broke out the tape recorder when they got home.
Well, if you’re gonna vent, at least get it on tape. Who knows, there might be something worthwhile when it’s all said and done.
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