Breaking: Prop 8 Overturned

US NewsAugust 2010 • Views: 3,512

Breaking news: Chief Judge Vaughn R. Walker of the US district court in California has ruled that Proposition 8, outlawing gay marriage, is unconstitutional.

UPDATE at 8/4/10 2:26:22 pm:

LGF reader Gus 802 points out that Judge Walker was originally nominated to the court by Ronald Reagan, but not confirmed — because he was, ironically, seen as insensitive to gay issues. He was nominated again by George H. W. Bush, and this time confirmed: Vaughn R. Walker.

Assumed office: 1989
Nominated by: George H.W. Bush

… Walker’s original nomination to the bench by Ronald Reagan in 1987 stalled in the Senate Judiciary Committee because of controversy over his representation of the United States Olympic Committee in a lawsuit that prohibited the use of the title “Gay Olympics”. Two dozen House Democrats, led by Rep. Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, opposed his nomination because of his alleged “insensitivity” to gays and the poor.

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613 comments

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:50:31pm

oh no a piece of the sky just fell on my keyboard

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:51:06pm

And yet for some reason, God does not blast the US District court with a pillar of fire from the Heavens for their insolence.

What gives?

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:51:08pm

Hoorayyyyyy!

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:51:46pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And yet for some reason, God does not blast the US District court with a pillar of fire from the Heavens for their insolence.

What gives?

//

/be patient…

Ericus58 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:52:19pm

A Just and proper Ruling.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:52:22pm

re: #1 SpaceJesus

oh no a piece of the sky just fell on my keyboard

no that was plaster… call your landlord.

webevintage Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:52:23pm

Does this mean my traditional marriage will now implode?

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:52:34pm

This isn’t the end of this, by a long way, but DAMN I am happy.

Locker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:52:47pm

YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:53:01pm

Yes.

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:53:10pm

Cue wingnut head explosions in 3…2…1…

This is awesome news. I hope this decision stands.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:53:36pm

re: #7 webevintage

Does this mean my traditional marriage will now implode?

Yeah, you’re doomed.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:54:04pm

re: #11 Lidane

Cue wingnut head explosions in 3…2…1…

This is awesome news. I hope this decision stands.

Turning on #tcot to see it live ( the exploding heads of wingnuts, that is)

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:54:22pm

i hope there’s some dicta in there where the judge just copies and pastes the lyrics to YMCA or something

ShaunP Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:54:26pm

Pg 135 of the ruling:

“Moral disapproval, without any other asserted state interest” has never been a rational basis for legislation…

Love it…

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:55:01pm

re: #7 webevintage

Does this mean my traditional marriage will now implode?

no but gay divorce lawyers are all shopping the Mercedes Benz web site as we speak…

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:55:25pm

re: #13 darthstar

Turning on #tcot to see it live ( the exploding heads of wingnuts, that is)

Never mind…they’re having “issues”

Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to database

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:55:25pm

re: #15 ShaunP

Pg 135 of the ruling:

Love it…

then why isn’t pot legal?

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:55:36pm

I can already see it, “activist judges”, “not listening to the will of the people”, “Family values”, etc etc

ShaunP Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:56:41pm

re: #18 albusteve

then why isn’t pot legal?

Seriously…

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:56:49pm

re: #18 albusteve

then why isn’t pot legal?

licensing and taxation issues.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:56:51pm

Let me simply say, About damn time. And yeah, I know, there’s a lot more work to do, but it’s a good step.

History is going to keep marching forward, and no matter how much people may want it to be 20 or 50 years ago, if we keep fighting and don’t give up, we’ll stay in the 21st century.

Ericus58 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:56:54pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can already see it, “activist judges”, “not listening to the will of the people”, “Family values”, etc etc

Those very words are being spoken right now…… the usual suspects

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:57:10pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can already see it, “activist judges”, “not listening to the will of the people”, “Family values”, etc etc

Yeah, we’ve heard it all. They can kiss my ass.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:57:15pm

From Pam’s House Blend:

REMEDIES

Plaintiffs have demonstrated by overwhelming evidence that Proposition 8 violates their due process and equal protection rights and that they will continue to suffer these constitutional violations until state officials cease enforcement of Proposition 8. California is able to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, as it has already issued 18,000 marriage licenses to same-sex couples and has not suffered any demonstrated harm as a result,see FF 64-66; moreover, California officials have chosen not to defend Proposition 8 in these proceedings.

Because Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, the court orders entry of judgment permanently enjoining its enforcement; prohibiting the official defendants from applying or enforcing Proposition 8 and directing the official defendants that all persons under their control or supervision shall not apply or enforce Proposition 8. The clerk is DIRECTED to enter judgment without bond in favor of plaintiffs and plaintiff-intervenors and against defendants and defendant-intervenors pursuant to FRCP 58.

IT IS SO ORDERED.”

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:57:28pm

lawrence v. texas being extended for this? awesome.

What, me worry? Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:57:48pm

re: #18 albusteve

then why isn’t pot legal?

In another 5 years or less.

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:58:04pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have a page opened up to the fever swamp. Nothing really vile.

Yet.

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:58:53pm

re: #18 albusteve

then why isn’t pot legal?

might be soon here in cali. polls are running 60%+ in favor of legalization.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:59:07pm

Twitter’s fuckin’ crashed. Heh.

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:59:17pm

re: #28 Bubblehead II

Have a page opened up to the fever swamp. Nothing really vile.

Yet.

They’re probably still cooing over Pat Robertson suing to stop the mosque.

Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:59:19pm

Another New World Order plot.

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:59:43pm

re: #30 darthstar

Twitter’s fuckin’ crashed. Heh.

I sense a UN conspiracy afoot.

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 1:59:43pm

re: #20 ShaunP

Seriously…

rhetorical question

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:00:00pm

My father is going to be dancing in the streets. Marriage equality is one of his things.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:00:10pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Another New World Order plot.

/awww bugger that.

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:00:10pm

This is good news. Happy for the couples there.

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:00:43pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

im around conservatives right now, i have to keep kind of quiet. it’s killin’ me.

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:01:12pm

re: #28 Bubblehead II

Have a page opened up to the fever swamp. Nothing really vile.

Yet.

Which one? The Freepers are flipping out.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:01:26pm

welcome to the world of filing joint returns….

deranged cat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:01:52pm

i don’t know why, but it looks almost badass.

“Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples.Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.”

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:02:09pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

im around conservatives right now, i have to keep kind of quiet. it’s killin’ me.

/aren’t you supposed to die for us?

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:02:09pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

im around conservatives right now, i have to keep kind of quiet. it’s killin’ me.

In your mind, scream and dance around with me!!!

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:02:13pm

re: #29 palomino

Yep come Nov. I gladly plan to vote for that initiative.

Ericus58 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:02:37pm

re: #40 brookly red

welcome to the world of filing joint returns…

Hey, no harshing the mellow now…..
/

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:03:47pm

More on topic here. After reading the transcripts of the procedings that the anti-prop 8 bloggers had I couldn’t see walker deciding any other way. Walker was fair, the pro-8 side was pathetic.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:03:50pm

re: #45 Ericus58

Hey, no harshing the mellow now…
/

it is what I do… sorry. ;)

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:04:11pm

re: #41 deranged cat

Sounds like a stay isn’t going to happen, based on the strong language in the decision.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:05:19pm

re: #48 darthstar

Sounds like a stay isn’t going to happen, based on the strong language in the decision.

me thinks you are correct…

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:06:09pm

I want two wives…one for day to day events, and a second for special occaisions

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:06:39pm

re: #30 darthstar

Twitter’s fuckin’ crashed. Heh.

Anytime anything newsworthy to people under 40 happens, Twitter crashes.

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:06:42pm

re: #39 Gus 802

Currently Hot Air and the Blogmockracy.

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:06:46pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

on my way home i am getting some nice scotch. one bottle for now, another for when the 9th denies cert, or the supreme court rules in our favor.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:06:53pm

re: #50 albusteve

I want two wives…one for day to day events, and a second for special occaisions

be careful what you ask for…

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:07:28pm

re: #52 Bubblehead II

Currently Hot Air and the Blogmockracy.

i wonder if those guys at stalker blog are still calling me a jew hater today

Buck Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:07:47pm

It is going to be interesting how Obama walks around this.

He has stated very clearly that he believes that Marriage is the union on one man and one woman.

As has Clinton.

However he said it at a church, so maybe he was really just saying what they wanted to hear.

I am for same sex marriage. Completely, and without any reservation.

Of course being divorced I am against marriage in general… so I find myself torn. I am happy for same sex couples who want to get married, but I advise against it…..

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:08:37pm

I’ve got to say I do worry for Judge Walker. Given the latest trend of threatening judges when they make a ruling that people don’t like, it seems inevitable that the nuts will be out in force for this guy. Walker by the way if anyone’s curious was a H.W Bush appointee.

Buck Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:08:44pm

re: #50 albusteve

I want two wives…one for day to day events, and a second for special occaisions

In Canada the penalty for having two wives is….. two mothers-in-law….

bada bing…

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:09:10pm

re: #55 SpaceJesus

Haven’t seen anything like that, yet. But I only have the latest thread open to see what floats to the top.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:09:26pm

re: #56 Buck

It is going to be interesting how Obama walks around this.

He has stated very clearly that he believes that Marriage is the union on one man and one woman.

As has Clinton.

However he said it at a church, so maybe he was really just saying what they wanted to hear.

I am for same sex marriage. Completely, and without any reservation.

don’t worry he voted against it before he voted for it…
Of course being divorced I am against marriage in general… so I find myself torn. I am happy for same sex couples who want to get married, but I advise against it…

webevintage Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:09:59pm

re: #56 Buck

It is going to be interesting how Obama walks around this.

Maybe he won’t.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:10:01pm

The Judge has in fact NOT ISSUED A STAY…fuck off, phobes.

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:10:34pm

re: #62 darthstar

The Judge has in fact NOT ISSUED A STAY…fuck off, phobes.

???

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:10:42pm

re: #56 Buck

It is going to be interesting how Obama walks around this.

He has stated very clearly that he believes that Marriage is the union on one man and one woman.

As has Clinton.

However he said it at a church, so maybe he was really just saying what they wanted to hear.

I am for same sex marriage. Completely, and without any reservation.

Of course being divorced I am against marriage in general… so I find myself torn. I am happy for same sex couples who want to get married, but I advise against it…

that was supposed to read, don’t worry he voted against it before he voted for it…

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:11:39pm

re: #63 talon_262

???

The Judge denied a stay on the decision. That means that gay marriages can go forward unless a higher court issues an emergency stay.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:11:41pm

re: #61 webevintage

Maybe he won’t.

well he will AND he won’t …

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:12:30pm

re: #59 Bubblehead II

oh no, it was all the rage yesterday or the day before.

also, the rage of my conservative friends on facebook right now over prop 8 is awesome.

deranged cat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:12:32pm

re: #62 darthstar

i’m not very familiar with legal terms and such.. not issuing a stay means that the overturning of Prop 8 is immediate? help me out here? :P

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:12:35pm

And so it begins. (From the fever swamp)

doriangrey
10 | August 4, 2010 17:06
Nevergiveup wrote:

Prop 8 unconstitutional–no surprise: it is CA and the Judge is openly gay. No conflict there ha?

With this ruling Judge Walker proves why activist judges should be hung from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave. This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:12:45pm

re: #64 brookly red

that was supposed to read, don’t worry he voted against it before he voted for it…

He doesn’t have to vote for or against it. The courts are doing that.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:13:21pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

He doesn’t have to vote for or against it. The courts are doing that.

indeed…

Romantic Heretic Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:13:48pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And yet for some reason, God does not blast the US District court with a pillar of fire from the Heavens for their insolence.

What gives?

//

Not to worry. I’m sure there are some holy warriors out there willing to make the decision for Him.

On topic. Very pleased, but it’s not over yet.

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:13:54pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

And so it begins. (From the fever swamp)

doriangrey
10 | August 4, 2010 17:06
Nevergiveup wrote:

Prop 8 unconstitutional–no surprise: it is CA and the Judge is openly gay. No conflict there ha?

With this ruling Judge Walker proves why activist judges should be hung from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave. This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.

As I’ve said time and time again, an activist judge is merely a judge that right wingers don’t agree with.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:13:59pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

And so it begins. (From the fever swamp)

doriangrey
10 | August 4, 2010 17:06
Nevergiveup wrote:

Prop 8 unconstitutional–no surprise: it is CA and the Judge is openly gay. No conflict there ha?

With this ruling Judge Walker proves why activist judges should be hung from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave. This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.

Morons. After out-of-state groups poured millions into getting this crap passed, we’re now going to whine about ‘tyranny’?

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:14:10pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

And so it begins. (From the fever swamp)

doriangrey
10 | August 4, 2010 17:06
Nevergiveup wrote:

Prop 8 unconstitutional–no surprise: it is CA and the Judge is openly gay. No conflict there ha?

With this ruling Judge Walker proves why activist judges should be hung from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave. This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.

Because nothing says freedom and justice like the majority stringing up people from lamp poles.

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:14:13pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

lol “activist judge” = a judge bound by case law and the constitution

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:14:47pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

He doesn’t have to vote for or against it. The courts are doing that.

good, one less phobe to worry about

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:04pm

re: #65 darthstar

The Judge denied a stay on the decision. That means that gay marriages can go forward unless a higher court issues an emergency stay.

Is there even a higher court? From what I understand, Prop 8 was grounded entirely on California law. If that’s true, wouldn’t that mean that the feds don’t have any room to intervene, since it’s ultimately a state matter?

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:22pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Morons. After out-of-state groups poured millions into getting this crap passed, we’re now going to whine about ‘tyranny’?

Personally, I’d like to thank them for pouring millions of dollars into our economy, but I still think they’re assholes.

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:38pm

re: #53 SpaceJesus

on my way home i am getting some nice scotch. one bottle for now, another for when the 9th denies cert, or the supreme court rules in our favor.

If you have a Trader Joe’s in your area, they have a good selection with very reasonable pricing. The Lismore single malt label is especially delicious. Not too peaty but enough to let you know it’s a quality single malt.

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:43pm

re: #57 HappyWarrior

I’ve got to say I do worry for Judge Walker. Given the latest trend of threatening judges when they make a ruling that people don’t like, it seems inevitable that the nuts will be out in force for this guy. Walker by the way if anyone’s curious was a H.W Bush appointee.

I hope the wingnut krazees don’t get the bright idea to give Judge Walker the “Tiller treatment”…the Feds will pursue them relentlessly.

Edit: Read Bubblehead’s repost of doriangrey’s latest post at the Village of the Banned…what bunch of sick, twisted fucks.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:56pm

re: #78 Lidane

Is there even a higher court? From what I understand, Prop 8 was grounded entirely on California law. If that’s true, wouldn’t that mean that the feds don’t have any room to intervene, since it’s ultimately a state matter?

I don’t know…I’m no lawyer. But It’d be great if that was the case.

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:15:59pm

re: #76 SpaceJesus

lol “activist judge” = a judge bound by case law and the constitution

an activist judge creates law

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:16:27pm

re: #78 Lidane

Is there even a higher court? From what I understand, Prop 8 was grounded entirely on California law. If that’s true, wouldn’t that mean that the feds don’t have any room to intervene, since it’s ultimately a state matter?

not if it invokes a federal question

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:16:35pm

I wonder how these dipshits would feel about “tyranny of the minority” in regards to anti-vaxxers being required to immunize their children due to public health concerns.

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:16:35pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

As I’ve said time and time again, an activist judge is merely a judge that right wingers don’t agree with.

Yup. That sums it up.

goddamnedfrank Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:16:37pm

the #tcot hilarity continues:

Commies complete conquest of California. Married Californians will now be forced to Arizona. #prop8 overturned #tcot

Marriage between a Rubik’s Cube and a Roll of Duct Tape coming to a neighborhood near you! #prop8 Everything’s on the table now

Marriage between a Tranny and a Shetland Pony coming to a neighborhood near you! #prop8 Overturned by Liberal Activist Judges.

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:17:08pm

re: #83 albusteve

an activist judge creates law

and gets overruled

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:17:18pm

Vaughn R. Walker (born 1944) is the Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.

Assumed office: 1989
Nominated by: George H.W. Bush

Tidbits:

Walker’s original nomination to the bench by Ronald Reagan in 1987 stalled in the Senate Judiciary Committee because of controversy over his representation of the United States Olympic Committee in a lawsuit that prohibited the use of the title “Gay Olympics”. Two dozen House Democrats, led by Rep. Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, opposed his nomination because of his alleged “insensitivity” to gays and the poor.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:17:18pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

Tyranny of the minority? Yeah forget tyranny of the majority unless it’s something they like.

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:17:28pm

re: #78 Lidane

Is there even a higher court? From what I understand, Prop 8 was grounded entirely on California law. If that’s true, wouldn’t that mean that the feds don’t have any room to intervene, since it’s ultimately a state matter?

They can take it to the Supreme Court.

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:17:47pm

re: #64 brookly red

that was supposed to read, don’t worry he voted against it before he voted for it…

Obama never supported Prop 8. He’s on record from the start opposing that stupid initiative.

Targetpractice Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:00pm

That’s not fireworks you’re hearin’, folks. That’s wingnut heads all over the country poppin’ like champagne corks. Tis a beautiful thing.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:05pm

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

the #tcot hilarity continues:

I’m NOT moving to Arizona.

I’ve BEEN to Arizona.

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:07pm

re: #82 darthstar

I don’t know…I’m no lawyer. But It’d be great if that was the case.

Yeah, I don’t know either. I’m definitely curious about that, though.

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:35pm

re: #80 eclectic infidel

If you have a Trader Joe’s in your area, they have a good selection with very reasonable pricing. The Lismore single malt label is especially delicious. Not too peaty but enough to let you know it’s a quality single malt.

ill try it one day, but i like bowmore’s darkest. ill be grabbing that.

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:43pm

re: #93 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That’s not fireworks you’re hearin’, folks. That’s wingnut heads all over the country poppin’ like champagne corks. Tis a beautiful thing.

Sounds a bit like the fire-pit scene in Blazing Saddles, that wingnut head exploding…

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:18:52pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

As I’ve said time and time again, an activist judge is merely a judge that right wingers don’t agree with.

Absolutely. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is no more an activist than John Roberts. Both are equally willing to overturn precedent when they see fit.

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:19:10pm

re: #92 palomino

Obama never supported Prop 8. He’s on record from the start opposing that stupid initiative.

but that will not stop him from both taking credit for it & denouncing depending on the audience…

100

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:19:53pm

re: #89 Gus 802

Vaughn R. Walker (born 1944) is the Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.

Assumed office: 1989
Nominated by: George H.W. Bush

Tidbits:

So, they’ve been planning this for over 20 years. The sneaky bastards.
/

101

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:20:30pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

“This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.”

What these idiots often forget is the U.S is a Republic, not a Democracy in and of itself. Majority rule is not always the case. Sometimes the minority does have the Constitution on their side and will prevail when a bad law is passed by the majority.

Kinda sucks (in their opinion) when the Constitution they claim to love so much trumps their silly assed laws.

102

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:20:40pm

Too funny. Walker was originally nominated by Ronald Reagan. At one point he was seen as being insensitive to gays. Later confirmed after being renominated by George HW Bush. Now, the wingnuts want to hang him “from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave.”

103

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:20:46pm

re: #92 palomino

Obama never supported Prop 8. He’s on record from the start opposing that stupid initiative.

that’s odd…he opposes the physical marriage, but not the law that supports them

104

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:21:01pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, they’ve been planning this for over 20 years. The sneaky bastards.
/

It’s a trap!!11ty

105

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:22:05pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m NOT moving to Arizona.

I’ve BEEN to Arizona.

CHORUS:
Well, I’ve never been to Heaven, but I’ve been to Oklahoma
People tell me I was born there, but I really don’t remember
Well, Oklahoma, Arizona
What do it matter?

106

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:22:14pm

re: #101 Bubblehead II

nowhere in the constitution is the phrase “checks and balances” used, therefore it doesn’t exist, right? just like the phrases “separation of powers” “separation of church and state” and “fair trial” also don’t exist.

-conservatives

107

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:22:25pm

re: #104 Gus 802

It’s a trap!!11ty

Image: barackbar_08_he_knows_when_its_a_trap_barack_obama_2008_campaign_spoof_admiral_ackbar.jpg

;-p

108

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:22:39pm

re: #99 brookly red

but that will not stop him from both taking credit for it & denouncing depending on the audience…

I doubt he’ll be denouncing this decision.

But you’re right in a general sense: He’s a politician and tried to have it both ways. But, to the extent that he is anti-gay, he is far less so than most of his counterparts in the gop. Just look at Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

109

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:22:48pm

It’s the summer of Loving!
Loving V Virginia!
It ain’t outside that matters…
It’s what in yah….

Youtube Video

110

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:23:27pm

re: #102 Gus 802

Too funny. Walker was originally nominated by Ronald Reagan. At one point he was seen as being insensitive to gays. Later confirmed after being renominated by George HW Bush. Now, the wingnuts want to hang him “from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave.”

Oh, and it’s significant that he’s ‘openly gay’, which is pretty damn funny. Vaughn wouldn’t even bring his sexuality up to defend himself from charges of homophobia, he keeps his personal life entirely private, but now he’s going to be portrayed as some kind of wild-eyed ActOut kid.

111

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:23:28pm

re: #103 albusteve

that’s odd…he opposes the physical marriage, but not the law that supports them

he opposed the referenda because it was based on bias and hate, and supported by morons.

112

Romantic Heretic Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:23:34pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m NOT moving to Arizona.

I’ve BEEN to Arizona.

I have a good friend who left Arizona for the United Kingdom so she could marry her wife. Never seen a happier couple. :)

113

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:24:01pm

re: #103 albusteve

that’s odd…he opposes the physical marriage, but not the law that supports them

Jesus, can we just write it into the record that many lizards dislike Barack Obama, and move on? He has nothing to do with this case!

114

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:24:36pm

re: #98 palomino

Absolutely. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is no more an activist than John Roberts. Both are equally willing to overturn precedent when they see fit.

in typical lexicon, the term ‘activist judges’ does not apply to the USSC, more to federal judges…imo

115

Targetpractice Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:24:48pm

re: #107 talon_262

Image: barackbar_08_he_knows_when_its_a_trap_barack_obama _2008_campaign_spoof_admiral_ackbar.jpg

;-p

I voted for that guy!

116

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:13pm

re: #18 albusteve

then why isn’t pot legal?

Because William Randolph Hearst used the power of the newspapers he owned in order to protect the value of the lumber her owned lest it be challenged by people using hemp instead.

117

Stonemason Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:19pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

He doesn’t have to vote for or against it. The courts are doing that.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices

Why have we accepted ‘republican’ and/or ‘democrat’ judges that seem to rule along party lines? I know this particular judge was installed by a republican president, but others, such as Ms. Kagen, are automatically assumed to rule in the manner of the party to which they belong.

Drives me nuts, the law should be the law.

And this rant is not about this particular ruling, it is about the statement that the ‘courts are doing that’, they seem to be doing more all the time.

This should be a states rights issue, in my opinion, what happens when the DOMA comes up again and becomes Federal Law, which we are learning trumps State law (except in the case of pot, of course, damn feds raiding growers).

118

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:20pm

re: #114 albusteve

in typical lexicon, the term ‘activist judges’ does not apply to the USSC, more to federal judges…imo

wingnut lexicon operates differently

119

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:23pm

re: #114 albusteve

in typical lexicon, the term ‘activist judges’ does not apply to the USSC, more to federal judges…imo

In typical modern usage, ‘activist judge’ refers to any judge who has made a ruling the speaker does not like.

120

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:39pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, and it’s significant that he’s ‘openly gay’, which is pretty damn funny. Vaughn wouldn’t even bring his sexuality up to defend himself from charges of homophobia, he keeps his personal life entirely private, but now he’s going to be portrayed as some kind of wild-eyed ActOut kid.

First I heard of that but I really haven’t been watching too closely. BTW, I’m curious, you down dinged my #102?

121

Walking Spanish Down the Hall Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:25:59pm

I’m in shock. You mean there still is good news out there, and people who can rub more than two brain cells together?

122

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:26:11pm

On Hot Air’s front page the image for the link to Allahpundit’s blog entry on the Prop 8 ruling has an image of a mushroom cloud. A little over the top on the melodrama there don’t you think?

123

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:26:28pm

re: #106 SpaceJesus

nowhere in the constitution is the phrase “checks and balances” used, therefore it doesn’t exist, right? just like the phrases “separation of powers” “separation of church and state” and “fair trial” also don’t exist.

-conservatives

a living, flexible document, open to interpretation
-liberals

124

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:26:36pm

re: #120 Gus 802

First I heard of that but I really haven’t been watching too closely. BTW, I’m curious, you down dinged my #102?

Thank you. That was supposed to be an upding. I’m a little manic right now. Fixed.

WHERE’S MY WEDDING INVITATIONS??? I WANT WEDDING INVITATIONS!!!!

125

Max Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:26:49pm

16 marriages and counting, have been ruined by this ruling.

126

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:26:52pm

re: #121 b_sharp

I’m in shock. You mean there still is good news out there, and people who can rub more than two brain cells together?

/no it is all an illusion… and your dog hates you.

127

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:07pm

re: #122 ArchangelMichael

On Hot Air’s front page the image for the link to Allahpundit’s blog entry on the Prop 8 ruling has an image of a mushroom cloud. A little over the top on the melodrama there don’t you think?

They lived through Iowa, they’ll live through this.

128

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:29pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you. That was supposed to be an upding. I’m a little manic right now. Fixed.

WHERE’S MY WEDDING INVITATIONS??? I WANT WEDDING INVITATIONS!!!

=) I figured it was in error.

129

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:43pm

re: #123 albusteve

a living, flexible document, open to interpretation
-liberals

A set-in-stone document that says whatever we want, without reference to its actual text or history.

—wingnuts

130

Max Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:53pm

re: #122 ArchangelMichael

On Hot Air’s front page the image for the link to Allahpundit’s blog entry on the Prop 8 ruling has an image of a mushroom cloud. A little over the top on the melodrama there don’t you think?

That’s what Allahpundit considers humor.

He allegedly supports gay marriage, though.

131

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #123 albusteve

a living, flexible document, open to interpretation
-liberals

nothing has ever scared me more…

132

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:27:59pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus, can we just write it into the record that many lizards dislike Barack Obama, and move on? He has nothing to do with this case!

I’m replying to the other person that brought up the issue…speak to them if you don’t like it

133

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:07pm

re: #125 Max D. Reinhardt

16 marriages and counting, have been ruined by this ruling.

How so?

134

Locker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:16pm

Laugh. Fox New’s URGENT ALERT link on the Gay Marriage decision goes instead to their rant against Federal Workers. At the bottom of the front page article is an immediate link to a post about the judge’s bias. Of course the actual information can’t be found since it’s “faux news”

If you are able to find the article it’s two sentences long…. AHAHAHAHAHAHA

135

Buck Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:19pm

re: #92 palomino

Obama never supported Prop 8. He’s on record from the start opposing that stupid initiative.

This is all part of the Zelig in him. He gets to have it both ways.

He does not support same-sex weddings and believes “marriage is between a man and a woman”.

But also gets to be opposed to a proposition on the ballot in California that would change the state constitution to overturn a ruling that recently gave gay couples the right to marry.

This makes both sides happy, for awhile, and then it just makes both sides mad.

136

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:20pm

re: #123 albusteve

a living, flexible document, open to interpretation
-liberals

yep, and modification

137

Max Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:25pm

re: #133 jamesfirecat

How so?

It’s a joke.

138

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:28:30pm

re: #125 Max D. Reinhardt

16 marriages and counting, have been ruined by this ruling.

And why is that exactly?

139

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:29:22pm

re: #125 Max D. Reinhardt

16 marriages and counting, have been ruined by this ruling.

My husband hasn’t come back from San Francisco, either. Now, I wasn’t expecting him until seven, but it’s now entirely possible that he’s decided to marry some dude he met at Starbucks.

Except that he’s almost dysfunctionally straight, and bigamy is still illegal in California, but you know, I’m feeling insecure now.

140

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #118 SpaceJesus

wingnut lexicon operates differently

my point is I don’t see it as a partisan issue

141

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:29:26pm

re: #135 Buck

This is all part of the Zelig in him. He gets to have it both ways.

He does not support same-sex weddings and believes “marriage is between a man and a woman”.

But also gets to be opposed to a proposition on the ballot in California that would change the state constitution to overturn a ruling that recently gave gay couples the right to marry.

This makes both sides happy, for awhile, and then it just makes both sides mad.

What’s wrong with believing that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that the government should have no stance on who can’t and can’t get married?

142

deranged cat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:30:19pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

A set-in-stone document that says whatever we want, without reference to its actual text or history.

—wingnuts

hahahaha!

143

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:30:30pm

re: #114 albusteve

in typical lexicon, the term ‘activist judges’ does not apply to the USSC, more to federal judges…imo

true, but even at lower levels, aren’t there as many on the right as the left willing to overturn precedent? and that’s basically the definition of activist judge.

144

Locker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:30:39pm

Fox Poll on the issue has the right of it. Check out these “answer”..

Yes — Prop. 8 violates the Constitution. 30% (59 votes)
No — Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I don’t care what the judge thinks about the Constitution. 62% (121 votes)
I’m not sure but shouldn’t the voters views count for something? 7% (14 votes)
Other 1%

Feel free to add your opinion:

foxnews.com

145

Walking Spanish Down the Hall Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:31:29pm

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, we’ve heard it all. They can kiss my ass.

Is that an open offer?

146

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:31:30pm

And now, humor related to the ruling

Youtube Video

147

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:31:32pm

Oh, dear…this graph is pretty telling. (Consequences of gay marriage)

148

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:32:24pm

re: #137 Max D. Reinhardt

It’s a joke.

Sarc tags are you friend….

Doubly so from the guy who found a post playfully comparing conservatives to Space Marines worth down dinging…

149

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:32:48pm

re: #141 jamesfirecat

What’s wrong with believing that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that the government should have no stance on who can’t and can’t get married?

I know plenty of people who hold exactly that stance. Several evangelical Christians of my acquaintance have said simply that they believe that a Christian marriage is only between a man and a woman—but that civil marriage isn’t a Christian marriage.

150

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:33:05pm

re: #140 albusteve

why do you think the constitution is not open to interpretation by the way? if it wasn’t, why would we have scotus in the first place?

151

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #145 b_sharp

Is that an open offer?

Like I said, I’ll be at Folsom in the fall…look for the woman dressed up as an old west schoolmarm, with a camera.

152

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:34:05pm

So we basically have a Republican nominated judge, Vaughn Walker, and a Republican attorney, Theodore Olson, who litigated in this case to challenge Prop. 8. Olson was also Solicitor General and George W. Bush nominee.

Watch the heads explode!

153

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:34:29pm

re: #148 jamesfirecat

Sarc tags are you friend…

Doubly so from the guy who found a post playfully comparing conservatives to Space Marines worth down dinging…

WHAT THE HELL? WHEN THE HELL DID SOMEONE DOWNDING THE ASTARTES?

154

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:35:21pm

re: #153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WHAT THE HELL? WHEN THE HELL DID SOMEONE DOWNDING THE ASTARTES?

Right here….

littlegreenfootballs.com

155

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:35:49pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said, I’ll be at Folsom in the fall…look for the woman dressed up as an old west schoolmarm, with a camera.

Would that be an old west schoolmarm in leather?
/

156

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:35:50pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought that was the bible…

157

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:35:53pm

re: #147 darthstar

Oh, dear…this graph is pretty telling. (Consequences of gay marriage)

I think I’ve mentioned this before, but one of my students has an uncle who was engaged to his fella when the school year before last began. They were planning a Christmas wedding, but based on a hunch, they went and got hitched at City Hall the day before the election.

They told the family that they could have the church service and the family reception when it was originally scheduled, but they figured that jumping the gun on the civil marriage was safest, under the circumstances.

158

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:36:23pm

re: #152 Gus 802

So we basically have a Republican nominated judge, Vaughn Walker, and a Republican attorney, Theodore Olson, who litigated in this case to challenge Prop. 8. Olson was also Solicitor General and George W. Bush nominee.

Watch the heads explode!

Pfft. They’re a bunch of filthy pantywaist RINOs for not upholding the Freeper idea of marriage.

/wingnut

159

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:36:24pm

re: #135 Buck

This is all part of the Zelig in him. He gets to have it both ways.

He does not support same-sex weddings and believes “marriage is between a man and a woman”.

But also gets to be opposed to a proposition on the ballot in California that would change the state constitution to overturn a ruling that recently gave gay couples the right to marry.

This makes both sides happy, for awhile, and then it just makes both sides mad.

All politicians are Zeligs. As for Prop 8, Obama opposed a referendum specifically aimed at taking away existing rights, even if he was personally uncomfortable with those rights. He was never some sort of anti-gay zealot.

The center of gravity on this issue has moved so much in just a few years that it’s unlikely he’s going to become an anti-gay marriage crusader. And he’s already the most gay-friendly president we’ve had. Look at DADT and his overall record.

160

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:36:28pm

re: #144 Locker

Fox Poll on the issue has the right of it. Check out these “answer”..

Yes — Prop. 8 violates the Constitution. 30% (59 votes)
No — Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I don’t care what the judge thinks about the Constitution. 62% (121 votes)
I’m not sure but shouldn’t the voters views count for something? 7% (14 votes)
Other 1%

Feel free to add your opinion:

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

What a good showing from the wingnuts that want to “protect” the Constitution…just so long as it’s in their favor.

/the law is the law is the law

161

Romantic Heretic Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:36:35pm

re: #148 jamesfirecat

Sarc tags are you friend…

Doubly so from the guy who found a post playfully comparing conservatives to Space Marines worth down dinging…

Chaos Space Marines? I’m sure I’ve heard chanting “Blood for the Blood God! Blood and souls for Our Lord Khorne!” on some Tea Party rallies.

162

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:37:41pm

re: #155 darthstar

Would that be an old west schoolmarm in leather?
/

I’m torn. I really want to wear high leather boots with spike heels, but the problem is that:

a. I’m broke

and

b. I hate walking in heels

Maybe low-heeled Western boots and a leather waistcoat/bustier thing.

163

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:37:45pm

re: #158 Lidane

Pfft. They’re a bunch of filthy pantywaist RINOs for not upholding the Freeper idea of marriage.

/wingnut

Thank you Ronald Reagan!

164

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:37:52pm

Pop!

165

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:38:16pm

re: #156 Dreggas

I thought that was the bible…

Sadly, used in a similar way.

Quote from a friend of mine: “THUMPING it doesn’t do you any good, you have to READ it. And then FOLLOW it.”

166

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:38:43pm

re: #158 Lidane

Pfft. They’re a bunch of filthy pantywaist RINOs for not upholding the Freeper idea of marriage.

/wingnut

I don’t even want to THINK about the Freeper idea of marriage.

167

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:38:52pm

re: #164 Gus 802

Pop!

Kaboom!

168

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:39:14pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Folsom is a LOT of fun.

169

Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:39:23pm

Is it safe to assume that this case will be going all the way to the SCOTUS?

170

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:39:55pm

re: #155 darthstar

Would that be an old west schoolmarm in leather?
/

re: #169 Spare O’Lake

Is it safe to assume that this case will be going all the way to the SCOTUS?

Oh.Yeah.

171

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:40:07pm

re: #155 darthstar

Perhaps not in leather but they did have canes *shudders*

172

Romantic Heretic Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadly, used in a similar way.

Quote from a friend of mine: “THUMPING it doesn’t do you any good, you have to READ it. And then FOLLOW it.”

My thought is that living in a U.S. ruled by a fundamentalist interpretation of The Constitution would be about as much fun as living in the U.S. ruled by a fundamentalist interpretation of The Bible.

In other words, no fun at all.

173

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:40:40pm

re: #169 Spare O’Lake

Is it safe to assume that this case will be going all the way to the SCOTUS?

I give good-ish odds for it. California is where a lot of groups opposing same-sex marriage have decided to make a stand.

174

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:41:24pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t even want to THINK about the Freeper idea of marriage.

Those assholes would make the Puritans look like the life of the party. They can keep their “traditional” marriage and get bent.

I hope this decision stands. It’s awesome. I’ve got a silly grin on my face, and I’m not even gay. I just like seeing the bigots lose. :D

175

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:41:26pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

if you’re going for the pony-play look that would work.

176

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:41:35pm

re: #169 Spare O’Lake

Most likely. It has to go before the 9th Circuit first though.

177

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:41:59pm

re: #169 Spare O’Lake

Is it safe to assume that this case will be going all the way to the SCOTUS?

Why would you consider it safe to assume that? How far did Loving V Virginia go?

178

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:42:17pm

re: #154 jamesfirecat

Right here…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

James, clearly you’re confusing a trappings of a Heretical Cult, properly dealt with by an Eccliasarchy Confessor with an War of Faith duely declared by the Holy Synod of Terra, as laid down by Sebastion Thor after the Reign of Blood, with the structure of the Emperor’s most holy Astartes.

179

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:42:28pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

Why would you consider it safe to assume that? How far did Loving V Virginia go?

GAH!

Totally misread your post.

Yeah this is going to the supreme court like you think it will.

180

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:42:55pm

re: #161 Romantic Heretic

Chaos Space Marines? I’m sure I’ve heard chanting “Blood for the Blood God! Blood and souls for Our Lord Khorne!” on some Tea Party rallies.

/

Souls are for the lesser gods. Khorne cares only that the blood flows.

181

Walking Spanish Down the Hall Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:43:15pm

re: #126 brookly red

/no it is all an illusion… and your dog hates you.

Whoa. That must have been some good dope I smoked.

182

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:43:50pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, and it’s significant that he’s ‘openly gay’, which is pretty damn funny. Vaughn wouldn’t even bring his sexuality up to defend himself from charges of homophobia, he keeps his personal life entirely private, but now he’s going to be portrayed as some kind of wild-eyed ActOut kid.

And it’s only a matter of time before we start hearing of the death threats against him. The judge will need a security detail, pronto.

183

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:44:25pm

re: #175 Dreggas

if you’re going for the pony-play look that would work.

Well. I guess every schoolmarm needs a pony to get her to the one-room schoolhouse on the prairie.

My husband just called from his temp gig. He reports being so bored that he has gone past boredom and into malaise.

184

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:44:44pm

theonion.com

185

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:44:49pm

I really do think eventually we’ll look back at the attempts to ban gay marriage as we do bans of interracial marriage. I find it amusing that there are people out there who actually think their marriage is being threatened by a gay couple marrying or the equally pathetic that this discriminates against them.

186

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:44:51pm

More than any other social issue, gay rights and SSM present a real problem for social conservatives. The only group that opposes SSM is 65+.

My dad, a freaking doctor, thought that gays were inherently dangerous and that homosexuality was a pathology, a sickness. That’s what he was taught in med school back in the early 1940s. Those days are long gone and won’t come back. Toothpaste is out of the tube, and gays out of the closet.

So this is a clear loser for the SoCons over time. That won’t necessarily dissuade them though. But I think the few cool heads in the gop establishment will back off.

187

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:44:55pm

re: #176 Bubblehead II

Most likely. It has to go before the 9th Circuit first though.

You guys don’t think the 9th circuit would overturn this ruling do ya? I would really be shocked. The Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.

188

Walking Spanish Down the Hall Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:45:04pm

re: #136 SpaceJesus

yep, and modification

Sounds just like the Bible.

189

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:45:23pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

Why would you consider it safe to assume that? How far did Loving V Virginia go?

That went to the Supremes, no?

190

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:46:19pm

re: #182 eclectic infidel

And it’s only a matter of time before we start hearing of the death threats against him. The judge will need a security detail, pronto.

I’m sure he has one already. It’s a damn shame that a judge should need such.

191

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:46:19pm

re: #186 palomino

What cooler heads? Can’t wait for the Tea Party Caucus to weigh in. Ugh.

192

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:47:33pm

I have a bottle of champagne left in the fridge unopened since New Years.

I’m opening it tonight. Today has been a good day.

193

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:47:50pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

I really do think eventually we’ll look back at the attempts to ban gay marriage as we do bans of interracial marriage. I find it amusing that there are people out there who actually think their marriage is being threatened by a gay couple marrying or the equally pathetic that this discriminates against them.

My father keeps trying to bring people out on this. “How is my marriage threatened if some lesbians also get married to each other? Do you think my forty-year marriage will be less special to me because my gay coworkers are also getting married? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?”

194

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:12pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

given that it is folsom, shouldn’t be too hard to find a willing pony hehehe.

195

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:19pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m torn. I really want to wear high leather boots with spike heels, but the problem is that:

a. I’m broke

and

b. I hate walking in heels

Maybe low-heeled Western boots and a leather waistcoat/bustier thing.

I have friends of friends who could probably hook you up.

196

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:20pm

re: #192 celticdragon

I have a bottle of champagne left in the fridge unopened since New Years.

I’m opening it tonight. Today has been a good day.

Ooh…I’ve got a bottle of Perrier Jouet in the fridge as well…maybe that would be nice…I’ll see how the missus feels when she gets home.

197

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:31pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

You guys don’t think the 9th circuit would overturn this ruling do ya? I would really be shocked. The Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.

I can’t see grounds for the 9th to overturn it, no.

198

Locker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:45pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said, I’ll be at Folsom in the fall…look for the woman dressed up as an old west schoolmarm, with a camera.

If you are coming all the way out to Folsom I HIGHLY recommend eating at Visconti’s Ristorante as it’s the best restaurant in the Sacramento area and reasonably priced:

viscontisristorante.com

Best Minestrone I’ve had and the Veal Parmesan is …. almost a religious experience…

199

Bubblehead II Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:48:52pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

You guys don’t think the 9th circuit would overturn this ruling do ya? I would really be shocked. The Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.

I don’t think the 9th will overturn it. Hence my opinion that it will go to the SCOTUS. Wether or not they decide to hear it is another story.

200

Food Lion Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:03pm

Good on ya, Judge Walker!

201

Walking Spanish Down the Hall Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:09pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said, I’ll be at Folsom in the fall…look for the woman dressed up as an old west schoolmarm, with a camera.

I’ll start getting my lips ready now.

202

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:22pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I can’t see grounds for the 9th to overturn it, no.

and justice kennedy, the swing vote on scotus, votes in favor of gay rights.

i think this thing is sunk.

203

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:26pm

I see the ghost of Cato the Elder!

[Waves]

204

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:31pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

You guys don’t think the 9th circuit would overturn this ruling do ya? I would really be shocked. The Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.

The law, and the arguments in favor of it, were so unconstitutional as to be laughable. Look at the ruling…it’s fuckin’ brutal. I’m surprised the judge didn’t add punitive damages of a public flogging for the lawyers arguing in favor of Prop 8.

205

palomino Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:39pm

re: #191 Rightwingconspirator

What cooler heads? Can’t wait for the Tea Party Caucus to weigh in. Ugh.

I said there were only a few. Off the top of my head, uhh, OK you got me, I can’t think of any. Except gop members of congress who lost primaries to tea partiers, like Bennett of Utah.

This will be an interesting test of the tea parties. They say they’re all about limited govt and individual freedom; they also claim not to be culture warriors. We’ll see.

206

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:50:54pm

re: #172 Romantic Heretic

My thought is that living in a U.S. ruled by a fundamentalist interpretation of The Constitution would be about as much fun as living in the U.S. ruled by a fundamentalist interpretation of The Bible.

In other words, no fun at all.

If you want to see what that may might be like, just watch Escape from L.A.

Compared to Escape from New York, Escape from L.A. is a turd, but Cliff Robertson’s turn as a fundamentalist President exudes the same vibes as I get from what’s going on now with the Tea Partiers, the “protect the Constitution!!11ty” folks, and such.

Life is starting to imitate art, in a way…and it’s fucking scary.

207

darthstar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:51:26pm

re: #203 Gus 802

I see the ghost of Cato the Elder!

[Waves]

Welcome back, Cato! Come, celebrate…come again. :)

208

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:51:27pm

OK everybody. Indulge in massive amounts of spelling and grammatical errors!

209

Targetpractice Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:51:28pm

re: #203 Gus 802

I see the ghost of Cato the Elder!

[Waves]

I see dead people.

210

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:52:26pm

re: #208 Gus 802

OK everybody. Indulge in massive amounts of spelling and grammatical errors!

/

like I don’t do that already…

211

kernelPanic Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:52:38pm

Someone said upthread that the judge refused to issue a stay order but nytimes.com says that the judge immediately stayed his decision pending the obvious appeals to come.

So which is it? Will CA be issuing certificates to same-sex couples ASAP or will it all pend on the appeal, 9th circuit and supremes?

212

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:52:52pm

Oh how awesome.

213

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:52:52pm

re: #209 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I see dead people.

/

and they just keep voting!

214

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:53:01pm

re: #210 brookly red

like I don’t do that already…

Then you have nothing to loose.

215

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:53:08pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

My father keeps trying to bring people out on this. “How is my marriage threatened if some lesbians also get married to each other? Do you think my forty-year marriage will be less special to me because my gay coworkers are also getting married? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?”

It really needs to be asked. Honestly, I think people will grow more comfortable with the idea of gay marriage as they know gay people. Speaking from experience here but I grew more open minded about gays after meeting a gay cousin and when my one cousin’s husband came out.

216

brookly red Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:53:53pm

re: #211 kernelPanic

Someone said upthread that the judge refused to issue a stay order but nytimes.com says that the judge immediately stayed his decision pending the obvious appeals to come.

So which is it? Will CA be issuing certificates to same-sex couples ASAP or will it all pend on the appeal, 9th circuit and supremes?

if CA has the money to issue anything it will be by a grant from Kinkos…

217

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:53:55pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m torn. I really want to wear high leather boots with spike heels, but the problem is that:

a. I’m broke

and

b. I hate walking in heels

Maybe low-heeled Western boots and a leather waistcoat/bustier thing.

Check your thrift stores, you wouldn’t believe the kind of shoes you’ll find there!

218

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:54:02pm

re: #211 kernelPanic

Someone said upthread that the judge refused to issue a stay order but nytimes.com says that the judge immediately stayed his decision pending the obvious appeals to come.

So which is it? Will CA be issuing certificates to same-sex couples ASAP or will it all pend on the appeal, 9th circuit and supremes?

Sounds like it will pend:

Within minutes of the ruling, Maria Ydil, 31, and Vanessa Judicta, 32, headed to City Hall to apply for a marriage license. It was not immediately clear if they would get a license or be allowed immediately to marry.

A crowd trailed behind singing, “The Chapel of Love.”

While they were allowed to fill out paperwork, they were denied a license because the judge issued a stay on enforcement of the ruling pending further hearings on the issue, a city official said.

219

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:54:12pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I can’t see grounds for the 9th to overturn it, no.

An awful lot of weight is given to ‘findings of fact’, and the judge really covered the bases with that when he decided to have a full blown trial with witnesses. The prop 8 defense was laughably inept, and it was painfully shocking to read the daily transcripts as their one and only “expert” witness was torn to pieces by Boise on the stand. The judge makes an almost snarky observation how the prop 8 people refused to call any other witnesses and claimed they were afraid of the scary gays and public exposure…even after the SCOTUS cut off live camera feed.

There are no other witnesses or evidence that will be introduced in appeals, and the 9th Circuit will only overturn findings of fact if they are clearly wrong. That is remote in the extreme, since the Prop 8 defense shot themselves in both feet and then reloaded for more.

220

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:54:37pm

re: #204 darthstar

The law, and the arguments in favor of it, were so unconstitutional as to be laughable. Look at the ruling…it’s fuckin’ brutal. I’m surprised the judge didn’t add punitive damages of a public flogging for the lawyers arguing in favor of Prop 8.

That. Too. Also.

221

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:55:17pm

re: #216 brookly red

if CA has the money to issue anything it will be by a grant from Kinkos…

I believe we continue to issue marriage licenses, even in these troubled economic times.

222

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:55:30pm

re: #204 darthstar

The law, and the arguments in favor of it, were so unconstitutional as to be laughable. Look at the ruling…it’s fuckin’ brutal. I’m surprised the judge didn’t add punitive damages of a public flogging for the lawyers arguing in favor of Prop 8.

He didn’t so much HAND down the ruling as he…

okay I won’t go there :D

223

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:56:24pm

re: #222 WindUpBird

He didn’t so much HAND down the ruling as he…

okay I won’t go there :D

Let’s just say that Judge Vaughn started to sound a bit testy here.

224

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:56:41pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

?

I believe we continue to issue marriage licenses, even in these troubled economic times.

a California Hater Bot! Let’s see if we can make it malfunction by talking about Fresno, Texas

225

HoosierHoops Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:57:52pm

Good Afternoon Lizards! 103 here..I’m melting faster than Linsey Lohand at a Hollywood Coke party.
Good news on this ruling..It’s about time gays have the same rights as any other citizen in California…This reminds me of prop 6 was passed back when Harvey Milk championed gay rights in SF…
Right on Brothers and Sisters..

226

Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:57:59pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

That went to the Supremes, no?

Nah, I think it went to the Four Tops.

227

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:58:07pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Like I said, I’ll be at Folsom in the fall…look for the woman dressed up as an old west schoolmarm, with a camera.

I’m serious when I say this: if you want another person to accompany you, I’m game. I’ve been to Folsom several times and of course, I’m not the least squicked (sp?) by leather and bare flesh of either sex. I am now the proud custodian of a video/picture camera. Two cameras can get more footage than one. Give it a whirl. You know how to contact me.

228

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #219 celticdragon

An awful lot of weight is given to ‘findings of fact’, and the judge really covered the bases with that when he decided to have a full blown trial with witnesses. The prop 8 defense was laughably inept, and it was painfully shocking to read the daily transcripts as their one and only “expert” witness was torn to pieces by Boise on the stand. The judge makes an almost snarky observation how the prop 8 people refused to call any other witnesses and claimed they were afraid of the scary gays and public exposure…even after the SCOTUS cut off live camera feed.

There are no other witnesses or evidence that will be introduced in appeals, and the 9th Circuit will only overturn findings of fact if they are clearly wrong. That is remote in the extreme, since the Prop 8 defense shot themselves in both feet and then reloaded for more.

When the law is on your side, argue the law. When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When neither the law nor the facts are on your side, claim to be afraid of violent gay people.

229

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:58:35pm

re: #184 SpaceJesus

[Link: www.theonion.com…]

AHAHAHAHAHA YES

Reposting this to all my furry weirdo friends immediately

230

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:59:02pm

My Constitutional Law is a little fuzzy (I took that course a LONG time ago) but I recollect that if the 8th Circuit upholds the constitutionality of the initiative (meaning, if they reverse Walker) then appeal to SCOTUS would be discretionary, via a petition for cert. Those are granted in only 2% or so of cases. But if the is found unconstitutional (meaning the 8th CCA upholds Walker) then the appeal to SCOTUS is a matter of right, and would therefore go to them for sure. Since it seems an 8th Circuit reversal is unlikely, this seems bound for SCOTUS.

Those with fresher, more detailed knowledge should chime in.

231

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:59:10pm

re: #224 WindUpBird

OT for you:
more pictures for sad children street art.

The destruction of the image by unknown vandals just makes it better :)

232

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 2:59:22pm

re: #227 eclectic infidel

I’m serious when I say this: if you want another person to accompany you, I’m game. I’ve been to Folsom several times and of course, I’m not the least squicked (sp?) by leather and bare flesh of either sex. I am now the proud custodian of a video/picture camera. Two cameras can get more footage than one. Give it a whirl. You know how to contact me.

Sure. I may be too wrecked from my new job to even think about this, come time, but if I go, I’ll give you a call. You think the Flying Dutchman might come along?

233

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:00:14pm

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

“This is a tyrannical, abusive and utterly unconstitutional display of judicial arrogance. Judge Walker has turned ‘We the People’ into ‘I the Judge.’

“It’s inexcusable for him to deprive the citizens of California of their right to govern themselves, and cavalierly trash the will of over seven million voters. This case never should even have entered his courtroom. The federal constitution nowhere establishes marriage policy, which means under the 10th Amendment that issue is reserved for the states.

“It’s also extremely problematic that Judge Walker is a practicing homosexual himself. He should have recused himself from this case, because his judgment is clearly compromised by his own sexual proclivity. The fundamental issue here is whether homosexual conduct, with all its physical and psychological risks, should be promoted and endorsed by society. That’s why the people and elected officials accountable to the people should be setting marriage policy, not a black-robed tyrant whose own lifestyle choices make it impossible to believe he could be impartial.

“His situation is no different than a judge who owns a porn studio being asked to rule on an anti-pornography statute. He’d have to recuse himself on conflict of interest grounds, and Judge Walker should have done that.

“The Constitution says judges hold office ‘during good Behavior.’ Well, this ruling is bad behavior - in fact, it’s very, very bad behavior - and we call on all members of the House of Representatives who respect the Constitution to launch impeachment proceedings against this judge.”

234

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:00:25pm

“We deserve the same rights as any horrifying mythical abomination.”

235

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:01:31pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

That’s like saying a divorce court judge should recluse himself or herself if they’re hearing a case regarding a heterosexual marriage and the judge is also heterosexual.

236

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:01:38pm

re: #230 garhighway

9th

237

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:01:53pm

re: #227 eclectic infidel

I’m serious when I say this: if you want another person to accompany you, I’m game. I’ve been to Folsom several times and of course, I’m not the least squicked (sp?) by leather and bare flesh of either sex. I am now the proud custodian of a video/picture camera. Two cameras can get more footage than one. Give it a whirl. You know how to contact me.

You guys are killing me here, I’m way up in Portland ;_;

238

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:02:01pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

Also made me think of all the joy this would cause amongst the thousands of Twilight slash/fic writers.

239

pharmmajor Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:02:12pm

Boo-yah!

240

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:02:21pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

And here is a thoughtful, reasoned rebuttal to the AFA;

Go fuck yourselves, you self righteous pin dicks.

241

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:02:35pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

Also I’m making you come to the Gorillaz show in Seattle this November :p

242

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:02:43pm

re: #236 SpaceJesus

9th

I told you I was a little fuzzy on the details! As soon as they send you the AARP card, shit starts to happen.

243

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:03:01pm

re: #238 windsagio

Also made me think of all the joy this would cause amongst the thousands of Twilight slash/fic writers.

OK, thats crossed a line. Get out.

244

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:03:09pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

Oh the AFA so crazy it hurts

245

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:03:21pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

When the law is on your side, argue the law. When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When neither the law nor the facts are on your side, claim to be afraid of violent gay people.

Chock full of internet win. ;)

Whatever you do, don’t read the comments at Malkin. You will have to wipe off the exploding wingnut head goo off your monitor, and it took me nearly ten minutes to get the viscera off my keyboard. Yeechh.

246

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:03:26pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

So, I guess that if a case about child custody comes up, any judge with children should immediately recuse him or herself?

247

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:04:22pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

So, I guess that if a case about child custody comes up, any judge with children should immediately recuse him or herself?

Yeah. What is that like? Reverse logic or reverse osmosis?

248

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:04:53pm

re: #245 celticdragon

Chock full of internet win. ;)

Whatever you do, don’t read the comments at Malkin. You will have to wipe off the exploding wingnut head goo off your monitor, and it took me nearly ten minutes to get the viscera off my keyboard. Yeechh.

I’m not going near them today. Today is a happy day.

249

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:05:12pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Every day should be a happy day! :D

250

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:05:18pm

re: #230 garhighway

My Constitutional Law is a little fuzzy (I took that course a LONG time ago) but I recollect that if the 8th Circuit upholds the constitutionality of the initiative (meaning, if they reverse Walker) then appeal to SCOTUS would be discretionary, via a petition for cert. Those are granted in only 2% or so of cases. But if the is found unconstitutional (meaning the 8th CCA upholds Walker) then the appeal to SCOTUS is a matter of right, and would therefore go to them for sure. Since it seems an 8th Circuit reversal is unlikely, this seems bound for SCOTUS.

Those with fresher, more detailed knowledge should chime in.

i had two semesters of advanced con rights last year, you’re pretty much spot on. don’t know if scotus will want to chime in on what level of scrutiny to apply or not. but i don’t think there’s even either a rational basis or compelling interest to be found in the prop 8 brief, so why should they bother?

251

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:05:55pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

So, I guess that if a case about child custody comes up, any judge with children should immediately recuse him or herself?

Heh, I was thinking that by their standards shouldn’t any heterosexual judge recuse himself for the same reasons in this case. I long for a day where groups like the AFA are regarded near universally as fringe groups.

252

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:06:02pm

re: #250 SpaceJesus

i had two semesters of advanced con rights last year, you’re pretty much spot on. don’t know if scotus will want to chime in on what level of scrutiny to apply or not. but i don’t think there’s even either a rational basis or compelling interest to be found in the prop 8 brief, so why should they bother?

Whippersnapper.

253

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:06:02pm

re: #233 Gus 802

The cynic in me wonders if there’s some bored interns writing that copy, intentionally trying to juice it up for their own amusement.

“We used tyrant and tyrannical. Can we do that? It’s not too repetitive?”

“It’s fine, I’m worried about that federal constitution nowhere… thing. That’s not proper grammar, dude.”

“It sounds punchy. What about “cavalierly”? That has no business being a word!”

“Fuck it. Fax it off and let’s go get some burgers.”

254

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:06:25pm

At the nearby Twin Peaks bar, there was little reaction to Proposition 8. Instead, the cheers emanating inside were over a baseball game as the Giants played the Rockies.

“This is all a f— waste of time and money,” said one baseball fan of the court decision. “They’re making us go around and around and around.”

255

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:06:42pm

Would that be the same AFA that George “Rentboy” Rekers coodrinated with while serving on the founding board of the FRC?

256

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:06:58pm

re: #253 WindUpBird

The cynic in me wonders if there’s some bored interns writing that copy, intentionally trying to juice it up for their own amusement.

“We used tyrant and tyrannical. Can we do that? It’s not too repetitive?”

“It’s fine, I’m worried about that federal constitution nowhere… thing. That’s not proper grammar, dude.”

“It sounds punchy. What about “cavalierly”? That has no business being a word!”

“Fuck it. Fax it off and let’s go get some burgers.”

There is a reason why it’s called boilerplate rhetoric, heh!

257

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:07:12pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

“We deserve the same rights as any horrifying mythical abomination.”

team jacob v. team edward, 67 U.S. 278

258

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:07:17pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

Heh, I was thinking that by their standards shouldn’t any heterosexual judge recuse himself for the same reasons in this case. I long for a day where groups like the AFA are regarded near universally as fringe groups.

Have we finally entered the age ofRobot Judges?!

Youtube Video

259

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:07:35pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

At the nearby Twin Peaks bar, there was little reaction to Proposition 8. Instead, the cheers emanating inside were over a baseball game as the Giants played the Rockies.

“This is all a f— waste of time and money,” said one baseball fan of the court decision. “They’re making us go around and around and around.”

Being baseball fans, they would know about running in big circles :D

260

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:01pm

re: #259 WindUpBird

I was gonna make a Twin Peaks joke, but I choked :p

261

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:03pm

re: #259 WindUpBird

Being baseball fans, they would know about running in big circles :D

Ouch. Touche!

262

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:05pm

re: #257 SpaceJesus

team jacob v. team edward, 67 U.S. 278

I still haven’t read the books, or seen the movies, but have tentatively joined Team Jacob on the grounds that he looks less bizarre than the guy playing Edward.

263

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:11pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. I may be too wrecked from my new job to even think about this, come time, but if I go, I’ll give you a call. You think the Flying Dutchman might come along?

I’m inclined to say no. See, a few years ago, our brother Dan somehow convinced the rest of the steering committee that a booth was abso-fracken-lutely necessary at Folsom. Okay. The board capitulated and registered with a booth. Folsom happened to fall on the same day as Israel in the Park. As such, and despite Folsom being entirely Dan’s idea, Dan NEVER went to Folsom, leaving the Dutchman and Dusty’s Terrified Husband to ‘man’ the booth. The Dutchman commented to me that he survived THE EXPERIENCE by keeping his eyes at ‘eye level’ with the densely packed crowd. The SFV4I booth was also next to the “human urinal” booth. Plus, I doubt he’ll want to be bothered with such crowds on a Sunday.

264

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:25pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would that be the same AFA that George “Rentboy” Rekers coodrinated with while serving on the founding board of the FRC?

Not sure.

265

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:08:33pm

re: #257 SpaceJesus

team jacob v. team edward, 67 U.S. 278

I did like the Burger King ads where they’re asking the old guy if he would prefer his granddaughter date a werewolf or a vampire.

266

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:09:00pm

re: #260 windsagio

I was gonna make a Twin Peaks joke, but I choked :p

Teh gheyz killed Laura Palmer.
Really. I saw them. Then they made her room look fabulous…

267

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:09:29pm

re: #263 eclectic infidel

I’m inclined to say no. See, a few years ago, our brother Dan somehow convinced the rest of the steering committee that a booth was abso-fracken-lutely necessary at Folsom. Okay. The board capitulated and registered with a booth. Folsom happened to fall on the same day as Israel in the Park. As such, and despite Folsom being entirely Dan’s idea, Dan NEVER went to Folsom, leaving the Dutchman and Dusty’s Terrified Husband to ‘man’ the booth. The Dutchman commented to me that he survived THE EXPERIENCE by keeping his eyes at ‘eye level’ with the densely packed crowd. The SFV4I booth was also next to the “human urinal” booth. Plus, I doubt he’ll want to be bothered with such crowds on a Sunday.

Oh, yes. I’ve heard the tales.

268

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:09:44pm

jacob is way hotter, people are crazy

269

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:09:44pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

I still haven’t read the books, or seen the movies, but have tentatively joined Team Jacob on the grounds that he looks less bizarre than the guy playing Edward.

DON’T DO IT! DON’T YOU DARE GET SUCKED IN!

270

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:10:37pm

re: #256 celticdragon

There is a reason why it’s called boilerplate rhetoric, heh!

I sorta want to rewrite it and send it back to them. :D

271

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:10:56pm

re: #268 SpaceJesus

jacob is way hotter, people are crazy

You are dead to me.

272

Locker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:11:04pm

re: #219 celticdragon

An awful lot of weight is given to ‘findings of fact’, and the judge really covered the bases with that when he decided to have a full blown trial with witnesses. The prop 8 defense was laughably inept, and it was painfully shocking to read the daily transcripts as their one and only “expert” witness was torn to pieces by Boise on the stand. The judge makes an almost snarky observation how the prop 8 people refused to call any other witnesses and claimed they were afraid of the scary gays and public exposure…even after the SCOTUS cut off live camera feed.

There are no other witnesses or evidence that will be introduced in appeals, and the 9th Circuit will only overturn findings of fact if they are clearly wrong. That is remote in the extreme, since the Prop 8 defense shot themselves in both feet and then reloaded for more.

Would you or anyone happen to have a link to the transcript sites? Thanks much!

273

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:11:22pm

re: #270 WindUpBird

I sorta want to rewrite it and send it back to them. :D

That I want to see. :)

274

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:11:30pm

re: #269 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

DON’T DO IT! DON’T YOU DARE GET SUCKED IN!

Antidote to Twilight.

275

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:12:22pm

re: #272 Locker

Would you or anyone happen to have a link to the transcript sites? Thanks much!

graphics8.nytimes.com

276

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:12:41pm

re: #272 Locker

Would you or anyone happen to have a link to the transcript sites? Thanks much!

FireDogLake has them.

277

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:12:56pm

Wedding invite! I just got my first wedding invite!!

OK, I just checked a friend’s facebook page, and she announced that she’s engaged (to her wife of, like, fifteen years). I haven’t exactly been INVITED yet. But I will be!!!

278

HoosierHoops Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:13:56pm

re: #260 windsagio

I was gonna make a Twin Peaks joke, but I choked :p

Best party I’ve ever been to was in Twin peaks…Nobody would believe me if I told you highlights…When the sun came up our host started popping open 500 hundred dollar bottles of wine and passing out Cuban cigars..
Best night ever!

279

LSD Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:14:35pm

I am Crushed.
Christopher Hitchens Has Cancer.

280

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:14:36pm

re: #274 windsagio

Antidote to Twilight.

Really?

I always thought it was this….

Youtube Video

281

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:14:41pm

re: #278 HoosierHoops

Best party I’ve ever been to was in Twin peaks…Nobody would believe me if I told you highlights…When the sun came up our host started popping open 500 hundred dollar bottles of wine and passing out Cuban cigars..
Best night ever!

He was referring to the TV show most likely ^_^;

282

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:14:52pm

re: #274 windsagio

Antidote to Twilight.

No, the real solutuion looks more like this;

Image: youngeisenhorn.jpg

283

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:14:56pm

re: #271 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You are dead to me.

he’s way buffer, you must be kidding yourself

284

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:15:22pm

re: #235 Gus 802

That’s like saying a divorce court judge should ~~recluse~~ recuse himself or herself if they’re hearing a case regarding a heterosexual marriage and the judge is also heterosexual.

Recuse not recluse. Fixed.

285

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:15:33pm

re: #281 WindUpBird

You would probably be correct >>

286

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:16:05pm

re: #281 WindUpBird

He was referring to the TV show most likely ^_^;

I still have the soundtrack by Angelo Badalamenti. One of the best for TV series, IMO.

287

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:16:37pm

re: #233 Gus 802

Insane response from American Family Association:

American Family Association:

“It’s also extremely problematic that Judge Walker is a practicing homosexual himself. He should have recused himself from this case, because his judgment is clearly compromised by his own sexual proclivity.

Of course the logical extension of this is that all practicing heterosexual judges would have to recuse themselves because their judgments would be clearly compromised by their own sexual proclivities as well. right? right?!?

Of course, they’d argue that it’s because he has such perverse sexual proclivities that he can’t make an unbiased judgment on the matter and of course “normal” heterosexual judges wouldn’t have the same problem, because they don’t have these perverse sexual proclivities.

Personally I think their collective desires to control other people’s bodies strikes me as a deeper perversion than any homosexual couple out there. But that’s just me. and that’s why I don’t think my opinions and feelings on what’s right or wrong morally should have any bearing on what laws are created or enforced. Particularly in the case of a victimless ‘crime’.

288

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:16:39pm

re: #286 celticdragon

GO NORTH BEND!

But yes, totally killer show :D

289

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:16:48pm

re: #283 SpaceJesus

he’s way buffer, you must be kidding yourself

Sometimes, the only way to win is not to play the game. I choose not to choose, so I win.

290

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:16:57pm

re: #284 Gus 802

Recuse not recluse. Fixed.

Would that make the judge a black robed recluse rather then a brown recluse?

291

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:17:08pm

This is my favorite quote from Malkin’s comments:

Sure, I’ve known queers that were funny and creative and whom I liked. But they are sick. Now a court has declared that their sickness is a constitutional right and that people are mistaken in their meaningless vote.

hahaha WOW

292

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #291 WindUpBird

This is my favorite quote from Malkin’s comments:

hahaha WOW

I wonder if they think the same thing about Jews who don’t want to convert to Christianity.

293

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #291 WindUpBird

This is my favorite quote from Malkin’s comments:

hahaha WOW

I warned you guys about the exploding wingnut goo you will get all over your computer. Better get some windex and some oxyclean.

294

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:18:58pm

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder if they think the same thing about Jews who don’t want to convert to Christianity.

yeah, probably slightly less gutsy about letting it loose on the internet

295

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:19:20pm

re: #294 WindUpBird

yeah, probably slightly less gutsy about letting it loose on the internet

Exactamundo.

296

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #293 celticdragon

I warned you guys about the exploding wingnut goo you will get all over your computer. Better get some windex and some oxyclean.

Oh their sorrow is my gain, it’s so very satisfying. I think that wingnut goo will strain into biofuel for my friend’s hippie diesel VW!

297

WindSword Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:20:55pm

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

298

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:21:36pm

re: #296 WindUpBird

Oh their sorrow is my gain, it’s so very satisfying. I think that wingnut goo will strain into biofuel for my friend’s hippie diesel VW!

Their tears… they taste so sweet and yummy.

299

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:21:38pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

Yeah because that worked so well for McCain Palin in 2008…

300

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:21:48pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

You sure? I seem to recall it was a pretty big election issue in 2008, and I can’t quite recall who we elected then…

301

HoosierHoops Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:21:57pm

re: #291 WindUpBird

This is my favorite quote from Malkin’s comments:

hahaha WOW

effen Malkin…My sister is gay..She is not sick..
effen Malkin

302

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:22:28pm

re: #297 WindSword

but the party that embraces it at the right time (ie 25 years from now) will be the one to reap the benefits.

303

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:22:37pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

Because its worked out so well for them in previous elections.

304

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:22:38pm

re: #297 WindSword

Wingnut mind explosion!

305

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:22:52pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

Well, we’re also making pot legalization an election issue…

I PARRY YOUR WEDGE ISSUE WITH MY STONER WEDGE ISSUE FAR OUT MAAAN

306

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:22:55pm

re: #296 WindUpBird

Oh their sorrow is my gain, it’s so very satisfying. I think that wingnut goo will strain into biofuel for my friend’s hippie diesel VW!

Well fermented and distilled wingnut grievance sauce may be dangerous for the long term safe operation of your vehicle, but it is very satisfying for high speed adrenaline rushes if used in a safe manner. Check you operator’s manual and local air pollution ordinances beforehand.

307

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:23:34pm

re: #305 WindUpBird

So I haven’t been following it, how likely is the CA pot thing to pass?

308

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:23:45pm

re: #304 windsagio

Wingnut mind explosion!

need some new material

309

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:23:56pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

You sure? I seem to recall it was a pretty big election issue in 2008, and I can’t quite recall who we elected then…

It was a close race, because South Carolina turned out to be the secret state and so taking it double McCain’s electoral votes.

So it ended 365 Obama and 346 McCain….

310

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:23:58pm

re: #307 windsagio

So I haven’t been following it, how likely is the CA pot thing to pass?

Last I read on it it seemed close, so I dunno, 50,50?

311

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:24:23pm

lol fox news. this one is funny on multiple levels.

“Gays can marry… No one is stopping them! A man can marry a women… A woman can marry a man. What’s next? Can I marry my dog? Who is that going to hurt? And since when does a queer federal judge get to decide this? Like that ruling is un-biased. Well I only wish my business was sticking around but guess when we move out to another country we won’t have to worry about “gays” and their “rights”. Only in the good ole USA! How many more businesses will follow us out the door?”

sysadminpgh
Wednesday, August 04, 2010 at 4:07 PM

312

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:24:54pm

re: #310 WindUpBird

I don’t even do the stuff, but that’s gotta be the most interesting political news of the year… something completely different :D

313

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:25:20pm

re: #311 SpaceJesus

He forgot to mention marrying 8 year olds, full of fail :(

314

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:25:24pm

re: #311 SpaceJesus

lol fox news. this one is funny on multiple levels.

“Gays can marry… No one is stopping them! A man can marry a women… A woman can marry a man. What’s next? Can I marry my dog? Who is that going to hurt? And since when does a queer federal judge get to decide this? Like that ruling is un-biased. Well I only wish my business was sticking around but guess when we move out to another country we won’t have to worry about “gays” and their “rights”. Only in the good ole USA! How many more businesses will follow us out the door?”

sysadminpgh
Wednesday, August 04, 2010 at 4:07 PM

The stupid. It burns! Ahhh!

315

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:07pm

re: #311 SpaceJesus

“Two dudes on a tandem bicycle? what’s that about? How come they get to put a wedding registry at bed bath and beyond? That’s fucked up, oh yeah and miatas…totally gay cars i mean wow”

316

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:12pm

re: #309 jamesfirecat

It was a close race, because South Carolina turned out to be the secret state and so taking it double McCain’s electoral votes.

So it ended 365 Obama and 346 McCain…

But McCain got some marvelous parting gifts, including a home version of the game.

317

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:20pm

OK, now in a time when we’re facing a severe recession, unemployment, increasing debt at all levels of government, climate change, massive polution/disasters, energy problems, fighting a war, and dealing with multiple volatile hostile governments, HOW THE FUCK does gay marriage even remotely gain consideration as major election issue?

Grow the fuck up moron.

318

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:21pm

re: #311 SpaceJesus

lol fox news. this one is funny on multiple levels.

“Gays can marry… No one is stopping them! A man can marry a women… A woman can marry a man. What’s next? Can I marry my dog? Who is that going to hurt? And since when does a queer federal judge get to decide this? Like that ruling is un-biased. Well I only wish my business was sticking around but guess when we move out to another country we won’t have to worry about “gays” and their “rights”. Only in the good ole USA! How many more businesses will follow us out the door?”

sysadminpgh
Wednesday, August 04, 2010 at 4:07 PM

Haha maybe he should move to Iran. It’s my understanding there are no gays in Iran. At least that’s what Ahmadinijad said.

319

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:34pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

So you have no stance on Gay marriage but your sure a majority of Americans hate the idea enough to vote Republicans into power to undo it?

Would you like some help getting down off that high horse?

320

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:38pm

OH HAPPY DAY! DANCE! DANCE! DANCE!

Youtube Video

321

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:26:48pm

re: #312 windsagio

I don’t even do the stuff, but that’s gotta be the most interesting political news of the year… something completely different :D

I’m 100% convinced it’s being manipulated as a GOTV wedge issue :D

But hey! Politics!

322

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:27:00pm

re: #318 HappyWarrior

Haha maybe he should move to Iran. It’s my understanding there are no gays in Iran. At least that’s what Ahmadinijad said.

the streets are paved with cheese

323

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:27:05pm

re: #318 HappyWarrior

There will soon be no gays in Uganda!

(or is that too far? >>)

324

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:27:37pm

re: #321 WindUpBird

pff weak :(

325

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:28:18pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

I’m sure you have an opinion on ‘gay marriage’ with a comment like that. It’s okay. You can share with us here.

326

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:28:29pm

re: #322 WindUpBird

the streets are paved with cheese

You’re quoting “An American Tail”? I don’t know if I’m sadder that its being quoted or that I realized it was being quoted.

///

327

Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:29:16pm

Every time I post something about the Park51 community center, more nuts wake up and remember they have LGF accounts they haven’t used in years, and start whining and complaining and ranting about Muslims. It’s amazing.

328

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:29:19pm

re: #308 albusteve

Did you get the email yet?

329

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, now in a time when we’re facing a severe recession, unemployment, increasing debt at all levels of government, climate change, massive polution/disasters, energy problems, fighting a war, and dealing with multiple volatile hostile governments, HOW THE FUCK does gay marriage even remotely gain consideration as major election issue?

Grow the fuck up moron.

the socons are on the loose…it’s what they do…
who is God? and what is his role among us is my favorite

330

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:30:19pm

re: #328 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did you get the email yet?

yes, thanks bro

331

celticdragon Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:30:22pm

Be back a bit later, my scaly friends. Keep the faith! We won a big one today for equality!

BTW, Gov Schwarzenegger made a frakking awesome statement on this today.

332

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:30:43pm

re: #326 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You’re quoting “An American Tail”? I don’t know if I’m sadder that its being quoted or that I realized it was being quoted.

///

YES

Someone got it! :D

333

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:30:52pm

re: #327 Charles

Every time I post something about the Park51 community center, more nuts wake up and remember they have LGF accounts they haven’t used in years, and start whining and complaining and ranting about Muslims. It’s amazing.

Try listening to the Alan Colmes show Charles. The majority of the callers entertain a seething, rabid dislike of Muslims.

334

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:31:12pm

re: #332 WindUpBird

Pff, furries >>

335

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:31:37pm

re: #327 Charles

Every time I post something about the Park51 community center, more nuts wake up and remember they have LGF accounts they haven’t used in years, and start whining and complaining and ranting about Muslims. It’s amazing.

oddly, it’s not about Muslims any more than about Christians…oh well

336

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:31:43pm

re: #330 albusteve

It was a shock to read about this AM, but your attitude looks good.

/prayers and thoughts continuing

337

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:32:13pm

re: #307 windsagio

So I haven’t been following it, how likely is the CA pot thing to pass?

It’s very, very close. I think we will see the real opposition spending on it late. It may well fail, over public safety concerns.
From the link
The Los Angeles Times-University of Southern California poll shows 49 percent support a November ballot measure that would allow the growing and consumption of pot. Forty-one percent oppose the measure and 10 percent are undecided.

338

windsword Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:32:17pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

You sure? I seem to recall it was a pretty big election issue in 2008, and I can’t quite recall who we elected then…

As I recall, we elected a President who didn’t support gay marriage.

The last time we saw an election between someone for gay marriage and one against, the anti- guy won. A LOT of pundits at the time, including those on the left, claimed Bush won because of the increased turnout from seniors when he harped on social issues.

339

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:32:47pm

re: #333 eclectic infidel

Try listening to the Alan Colmes show Charles. The majority of the callers entertain a seething, rabid dislike of Muslims.

whatever, that’s their business
Park51 isn’t

340

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #337 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks for the link, I find that thing really fascinating for some reason, it’d be such a sea-change in so many ways.

341

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:33:14pm

later, supper cooking

342

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:33:31pm

ot: I’m having some matzah ball soup and corned beef on rye from Liebmans Deli in Riverdale. This stuff is really fantastic.

343

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:33:37pm

re: #338 windsword

As I recall, we elected a President who didn’t support gay marriage.

The last time we saw an election between someone for gay marriage and one against, the anti- guy won. A LOT of pundits at the time, including those on the left, claimed Bush won because of the increased turnout from seniors when he harped on social issues.

We elected a president that supported civil unions and has been pushing for gay rights. Which the GOP just. doesn’t. ever. do.

Obvious concern troll is obvious, BOOOORING

344

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:33:49pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

Out of curiosity, how do you figure there’s going to be a Republican Landslide in 2010? I mean, do you think that this is going to materially affect the race between Reid and Angle in NV? or Murray and Rossi in WA? Or, in California Fiorina and Boxer? Do you think voter turnout in NC where Burr is in serious trouble against Marshall is going to be bumped for the Republicans from this specific ruling?

I’m not going to say you’re wrong off the bat, but in those races (and I haven’t even touched the other Senate Races, let alone any house race) the politics are local, and so are most of the issues. In fact I’d say that the worst thing for the Republicans to do would be to turn this into a national campaign. Because it will distract the voters from the inherent local weakness the Democrats do have and instead play to the national strength of having Obama in office, who has a better approval rating than either the Democrats or Republicans in general. (*1)

(note *1 - There are exceptions, Arizona being one prime example, where the Republicans have a higher approval rating than Obama but in a generic poll, these exceptions do not hold up on a nationwide basis)

345

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:33:50pm

re: #338 windsword

Well lets say there’s a majority against gay marriage (and the demo’s are consistantly trending in the direction of justice of that), so?

346

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:34:35pm

re: #344 bloodstar

I’d bet $300 that Dino Rossi is fucked.

/apropos of nothing :P

347

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:34:44pm

re: #339 albusteve

whatever, that’s their business
Park51 isn’t

But lately, that seething rage (on Alan’s show anyway) has been directed at Musliims in regard to Park51.

348

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:34:57pm

Perfect “Wingnut storm” forecast- Cordova gets built and NY starts marrying gays, all within a few blocks of ground zero. You can hear the ~~thunder~~. Wingnut Blunder.

349

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:35:22pm

Three things will be more important than gay marriage in upcoming elections: jobs, jobs, jobs.

350

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:35:32pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

oh! off topic:

Remember that Israeli prog/metal band I mentioned a while back, Orphaned Land?

I’M SEEING THEM LIVE, they’re opening for Katatonia in Portland. Gonna be awesome *_*

351

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:35:32pm

re: #348 Rightwingconspirator

On 9/11.

352

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:35:39pm

What I find funny is that same people who you’ll hear complaining about this ruling are the same ones constantly complaining about how liberals and “activist judges” are trampling on individual rights.

353

Charles Johnson Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:36:07pm

The National Review went full-on bigot today. The Park51 center has become a line in the sand for the conservative movement.

354

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:36:26pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

As a conservative, do me three favors

1) sit the next couple of elections out

2) next time you have a thought, let it go

3) if all else fails, repeat 1 and 2 frequently

355

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:36:46pm

re: #353 Charles

The National Review went full-on bigot today. The Park51 center has become a line in the sand for the conservative movement.

In a way, I want to say good.

Let them show themselves for what they are in the most visible way possible.

No more codewords and ‘concerns’.

356

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:36:54pm

re: #353 Charles

The National Review went full-on bigot today. The Park51 center has become a line in the sand for the conservative movement.

They’ll still manage to trip over it…

357

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:37:07pm

re: #340 windsagio

On top of today, you bet. Big year.

Oh and serious congratulations to our gay/lesbian/transgendered people here and elsewhere. May you use the right more wisely than some straight friends I have did. :)

358

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:37:15pm

re: #354 sattv4u2

DUDE!

Did I miss something where somebody asked you about the commas?!

359

AlexRogan Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:38:11pm

re: #297 WindSword

Hooray! This is the greatest news I’ve read today!

Huh? Gay marriage? Oh, I don’t have an opinion on that. I just realize that making gay marriage an election issue will essentially ensure a Republican landslide.

In your dreams, perhaps…and I’ve been registered (and have voted) as a Republican for almost 15 years.

Prop 8 was bad law to begin with…good riddance to bad rubbish.

360

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:38:25pm

re: #358 windsagio

DUDE!

Did I miss something where somebody asked you about the commas?!

I’m sure you miss a lot of things, but is there something about commas in particular you have in mind?

361

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:38:46pm

re: #360 sattv4u2

Seem to be less of them :D

362

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:38:57pm

re: #353 Charles

The National Review went full-on bigot today. The Park51 center has become a line in the sand for the conservative movement.

I’m trying to figure something out. Why does opposing Park51 have to be a conservative idea? It’s almost like a true Scotsman logical fallacy: all true conservatives oppose Park51.

363

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:39:03pm

re: #338 windsword

As I recall, we elected a President who didn’t support gay marriage.

The last time we saw an election between someone for gay marriage and one against, the anti- guy won. A LOT of pundits at the time, including those on the left, claimed Bush won because of the increased turnout from seniors when he harped on social issues.

We picked one guy who didn’t support gay marriage over another guy who didn’t support gay marriage. And the guy who got picked was a Democrat.

Your blithe prediction seems to be based on nothing much.

364

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:39:06pm

re: #358 windsagio

DUDE!

Did I miss something where somebody asked you about the commas?!

Don’t call him dude!

Youtube Video

365

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:39:44pm

re: #359 talon_262

Prop 8 and Windsword’s thing is just more of the ‘selling out the future for the present’ crap that has dominated the GOP for the last 40 years.

366

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:40:00pm

re: #364 WindUpBird

Don’t call him dude!

[Video]

It does kinda grate on me

(it’s my age)

367

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:40:29pm

re: #366 sattv4u2

Haha sorry :p

I’ll try to remember.

About the question tho :)

368

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:40:51pm

wub you dork, you have an IM.

369

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:41:16pm

gonna read the ruling over again. i wonder if the judge got tired of writing the word “irrational” over and over again in his opinion. cuz i sure as hell didn’t get tired of reading it.

370

jaunte Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:41:49pm

re: #362 Gus 802

I’m trying to figure something out. Why does opposing Park51 have to be a conservative idea? It’s almost like a true Scotsman logical fallacy: all true conservatives oppose Park51.

They’ve been driven crazy with their internal fears.

371

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:42:33pm

re: #362 Gus 802

I’m trying to figure something out. Why does opposing Park51 have to be a conservative idea? It’s almost like a true Scotsman logical fallacy: all true conservatives oppose Park51.

Do they all? I’m asking honestly. Have any high-profile conservatives argued for its right to exist?

372

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:42:41pm

re: #367 windsagio

Haha sorry :p

I’ll try to remember.

About the question tho :)

What about it?

I still use ,,, when apropos ,, as pauses/ breaks, just the same way people talk. Also use CAPS for emphasis, again the way we speak (unless everyone in your game world talks in robotic monotone)

373

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:42:52pm

re: #370 jaunte

They’ve been driven crazy with their internal fears.

Peer pressure perhaps and fear of excommunication.

374

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:43:11pm

re: #372 sattv4u2

Thanks :D

375

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:43:19pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

We picked one guy who didn’t support gay marriage over another guy who didn’t support gay marriage. And the guy who got picked was a Democrat.

Your blithe prediction seems to be based on nothing much.

There is a serious point to be made here. 2008 was about the economy and the financial crisis to the extent that the normal wedge issue playbook just didn’t work. But in 2010 the economy cuts the other way, and the wedge issues will still be there. As much as I would like to believe that the electorate is more mature than it was in 2004 and prior when the wedge issues worked so well, I really don’t have any evidence upon which to base such a belief. So Mr. Windsword may be right.

I don’t like that answer, but I kind of see the math working that way.

376

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:43:23pm

re: #371 JasonA

Do they all? I’m asking honestly. Have any high-profile conservatives argued for its right to exist?

I thought about that. None that I’ve seen.

377

jaunte Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:43:55pm

re: #373 Gus 802

It’s so obviously a first amendment issue, there isn’t any rationale to argue the point but ‘feelings.’

378

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:44:20pm

I think I’m going to have to avoid Facebook for a day or two now. The sniping back and forth between the two sides of this is starting and it will get ugly. Especially amongst some of my friends who cant shut up, assume everyone thinks like they do, have no fucking clue what they are talking about half the time, and then get pissed off when challenged. They are legion.

379

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:44:29pm

re: #16 brookly red

no but gay divorce lawyers are all shopping the Mercedes Benz web site as we speak…

I fully support the right of gays to marry. They should be as miserable as the rest of us. :D

380

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:44:43pm

re: #371 JasonA

Do they all? I’m asking honestly. Have any high-profile conservatives argued for its right to exist?

I’m a conservative
I have no beef with the center/ mosque or where it is

I DO feel a little uneasy if (as reported) they plan on ribbon cutting 9/11/2011

There are 364 other days in the year

381

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:44:54pm

re: #378 ArchangelMichael

I think I’m going to have to avoid Facebook for a day or two now. The sniping back and forth between the two sides of this is starting and it will get ugly. Especially amongst some of my friends who cant shut up, assume everyone thinks like they do, have no fucking clue what they are talking about half the time, and then get pissed off when challenged. They are legion.

facebook, the digital thunderdome

382

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:45:04pm

re: #376 Gus 802

I thought about that. None that I’ve seen.

Really? I’m not even asking if any support it. Are any at least saying “Well, I wish they wouldn’t, but they have every right so we shouldn’t fight it?”

383

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:45:35pm

re: #380 sattv4u2

I’m a conservative
I have no beef with the center/ mosque or where it is

I DO feel a little uneasy if (as reported) they plan on ribbon cutting 9/11/2011

There are 364 other days in the year

*ahem* Your profile isn’t that high. :P

384

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:02pm

re: #383 JasonA

*ahem* Your profile isn’t that high. :P

let me take a few more tokes of this and I’ll be there!!

385

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:13pm

re: #383 JasonA

*ahem* Your profile isn’t that high. :P

Perhaps it should be.

386

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:29pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps it should be.

VOTE FOR ME!!!!

387

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:36pm

Damnit. How is it possible to mislay a can opener in your own kitchen?

388

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:39pm

re: #380 sattv4u2

I’m a conservative
I have no beef with the center/ mosque or where it is

I DO feel a little uneasy if (as reported) they plan on ribbon cutting 9/11/2011
There are 364 other days in the year

I am with you, except so very little has been “as reported”. I have no faith in that report. But if they did as a deliberate outreach to Americans in the right spirit, I’d be fine with it.

389

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:46:43pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

We picked one guy who didn’t support gay marriage over another guy who didn’t support gay marriage. And the guy who got picked was a Democrat.

Your blithe prediction seems to be based on nothing much.

But he does have a point. The issue swung Ohio for Bush in 2004 and a large chunk of dems/obama voters carried prop 8. Dems, especially dems not in favor of gay marriage like the president, know this is not helpful to their already dim chances this election cycle.

‘Lose the Gays, or Lose the House’
washingtonindependent.com

“Polling indicates that DOMA is really popular in the public nationwide,” said Patrick Egan, a political scientist and expert on LGBT politics at New York University, “and there’s a lot of resistance in both houses of Congress to repealing DOMA, even among Democrats. So they realize that’s pretty much a political loser for them.”

But challenging Tauro’s decision would mean fighting to reverse what the gay community, a strong Democratic constituency, considers important and long-awaited progress. To some activists, a court battle could morph the community’s perception of Obama and the Democratic Party from sympathetic allies into outright adversaries.

“The courts are putting Obama and the Democrats in a pretty difficult spot that will probably force the administration to continue to defend this law that’s unpopular with its base,” Egan said. “They have to make arguments about why DOMA should be constitutional, and those arguments are going to go against the grain of gay and lesbian groups. So it really puts them in a bind.”

That piece was about a different decision regarding the DOMA but it’s obviously related.

390

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:48:02pm

re: #382 JasonA

Really? I’m not even asking if any support it. Are any at least saying “Well, I wish they wouldn’t, but they have every right so we shouldn’t fight it?”

Like I said, I haven’t seen any. My only guess would be there might be a few hidden away in academia or within the blogosphere.

391

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:48:58pm

re: #381 WindUpBird

facebook, the digital thunderdome

It’s more than two people entering and one leaving.

We got all the old people, evangelical protestant, tea-party sympathetic people in this corner versus almost everyone else in the other.

I stopped talking about politics anywhere but LGF a long time ago. Turned off talk radio and went back to listening to music in my car. My stress levels dropped exponentially. I wish others would do the same.

392

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:49:48pm

re: #391 ArchangelMichael

I like to get in ‘discussions’ with my relatives still, but its a little tough sometimes >

My mom told me I’d been brainwashed this weekend >>

393

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:01pm

BBIAB ,,,
Damn KDDI and their “needs”

“We need you to convert this to HD”
“We need this in PAL”
“We need audios 4 and 6, not 5 and 8”
(btw ,,, 4-8 have the same natural sound audios,, and they originally requested 5/8)

GGAAAHHHH!!!

394

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:43pm

re: #378 ArchangelMichael

Facebook-Where all the odd people you had finally gotten out of your life find you again. And again. :)

395

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:52pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Damnit. How is it possible to mislay a can opener in your own kitchen?

Never mind. Found it.

396

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:53pm

re: #389 RogueOne

That piece was about a different decision regarding the DOMA but it’s obviously related.

I’d rather we lose the house and stay true to principles like equality.

That being Pro-Gay Marriage is a LOOSING stance does not make me feel happy about the state of America and Americans….

397

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:54pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Damnit. How is it possible to mislay a can opener in your own kitchen?

That’s why I own three cork screws.

398

Gus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:50:59pm

I need a nap. BBL

399

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:51:30pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

BBIAB ,,,
Damn KDDI and their “needs”

“We need you to convert this to HD”
“We need this in PAL”
“We need audios 4 and 6, not 5 and 8”
(btw ,,, 4-8 have the same natural sound audios,, and they originally requested 5/8)

GGAAAHHH!!!

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think you can convert “To HD” only “from”. It’s either already recorded in HD or it will never be HD.

400

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:51:35pm

re: #395 SanFranciscoZionist

Never mind. Found it.

Good,,, now I can stop looking for it!

401

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:52:14pm

re: #396 jamesfirecat

I’d rather we lose the house and stay true to principles like equality.

That being Pro-Gay Marriage is a LOOSING stance does not make me feel happy about the state of America and Americans…

Or you could expand your principles to include the idea that there are areas where the government has zero role like say, ohhhh, marriage.

402

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:52:17pm

re: #396 jamesfirecat

I’d rather we lose the house and stay true to principles like equality.

That being Pro-Gay Marriage is a LOSING stance does not make me feel happy about the state of America and Americans…

I agree on both points.

403

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:52:18pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Damnit. How is it possible to mislay a can opener in your own kitchen?

Easy. One opener many kitchen drawers. I’m getting one of these.

404

jaunte Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:52:26pm

re: #397 eclectic infidel

That’s why I own three cork screws.

Doesn’t it take a long time to open a can with those?

405

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:52:27pm

re: #399 RogueOne

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think you can convert “To HD” only “from”. It’s either already recorded in HD or it will never be HD.

nope ,, we can upconvert an analog or SDI to HD

(or HD back down to SDI or analog)

406

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:53:13pm

re: #399 RogueOne

re: #405 sattv4u2

nope ,, we can upconvert an analog or SDI to HD

(or HD back down to SDI or analog)

or SDI to analog ,, or analog to SDI ,,,

We;re GOOOOOODD!

407

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:53:29pm

re: #389 RogueOne

That piece was about a different decision regarding the DOMA but it’s obviously related.

Seriously, this may have some impact on the midterms, but I doubt it will be much. If there’s a Republican boom it will be on the back of concerns about the economy, not this.

408

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:53:37pm

re: #401 RogueOne

Or you could expand your principles to include the idea that there are areas where the government has zero role like say, ohhh, marriage.

What the f*** does that mean?

Isn’t that in effect being pro-gay marriage or at least saying “F*** YOU ALL NONE OF YOU ARE MARRIED!” To everyone in America and making everyone civil unioned with marriage being only a slip of paper you get from a church?

409

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:53:56pm

It would be ironic if they lost the house due to an issue like this since their talking point is they want to reduce the role of gov’t in people’s lives.

410

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:53:58pm

re: #404 jaunte

Doesn’t it take a long time to open a can with those?

Not if you place the corkscrew twisty end down on the can and bash it with a hammer!

411

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:54:23pm

re: #407 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously, this may have some impact on the midterms, but I doubt it will be much. If there’s a Republican boom it will be on the back of concerns about the economy, not this.

And if people elect REPUBLICANS because they are concerned about the ECONOMY…. that’s like hiring an arsonist because you house is on fire….

412

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:54:34pm

re: #409 HappyWarrior

It would be ironic if they lost the house due to an issue like this since their talking point is they want to reduce the role of gov’t in people’s lives.

by their I mean the GOP btw.

413

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:55:11pm

re: #401 RogueOne

Or you could expand your principles to include the idea that there are areas where the government has zero role like say, ohhh, marriage.

Getting people to go along with the “Get govt out of the marriage business” stance is a Herculean task vs just recognizing gay marriage and moving on. It’s one of those old Libertarian things I used to believe in that I left in the parking lot of the LP circus tent while moving at Warp speed away from it.

414

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:55:29pm

re: #411 jamesfirecat

And if people elect REPUBLICANS because they are concerned about the ECONOMY… that’s like hiring an arsonist because you house is on fire…

When people are unhappy they tend to vote against the incumbent.

415

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:55:33pm

re: #401 RogueOne

Or you could expand your principles to include the idea that there are areas where the government has zero role like say, ohhh, marriage.

So, you’re in favor of scrapping civil marriage? Ideologically, it has potential, but it does put us back to square one with some practical issues.

416

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:56:26pm

re: #408 jamesfirecat

What the f*** does that mean?

Isn’t that in effect being pro-gay marriage or at least saying “F*** YOU ALL NONE OF YOU ARE MARRIED!” To everyone in America and making everyone civil unioned with marriage being only a slip of paper you get from a church?

That means we wouldn’t be having this entire debate if the government weren’t involved in the marriage business. Marriage is a religious/social construction. If Church A wants to endorse gay marriage and Church B doesn’t then so be it. The only “marriage” contracts that should be recognized by the government should be civil contracts.

417

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:56:44pm

re: #415 SanFranciscoZionist

So, you’re in favor of scrapping civil marriage? Ideologically, it has potential, but it does put us back to square one with some practical issues.

And it is the less conservative position, since it involves tossing a couple of centuries of law here in the US.

418

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:56:47pm

re: #101 Bubblehead II

“This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.”

What these idiots often forget is the U.S is a Republic, not a Democracy in and of itself. Majority rule is not always the case. Sometimes the minority does have the Constitution on their side and will prevail when a bad law is passed by the majority.

Kinda sucks (in their opinion) when the Constitution they claim to love so much trumps their silly assed laws.

Actually, they seem quite happy to trot out the ’ the US is Republic, not a Democracy’ line when when the election results don’t go their way. And then they ignore it just as quickly when they want to use majority rule to take away someone’s rights.

419

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:57:34pm

re: #414 garhighway

When people are unhappy they tend to vote against the incumbent.

That doesn’t change the fact that Americans would have to be suffering from some kind of horrific cross cultural amnesia to not realize it was Republican policies on the economy which f***ed us up so much in the first place!

420

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:57:49pm

re: #413 ArchangelMichael

Getting people to go along with the “Get govt out of the marriage business” stance is a Herculean task vs just recognizing gay marriage and moving on. It’s one of those old Libertarian things I used to believe in that I left in the parking lot of the LP circus tent while moving at Warp speed away from it.

The libertarian argument is the winner this time and I think most people are moving in that direction. It removes the religious objections held by the majority of opponents.

421

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:02pm

re: #102 Gus 802

Too funny. Walker was originally nominated by Ronald Reagan. At one point he was seen as being insensitive to gays. Later confirmed after being renominated by George HW Bush. Now, the wingnuts want to hang him “from the street lights lining Pennsylvania Ave.”

Someone actually said that? In New Zealand, that kind of statement about a judge could very quickly end you up in front of a judge.

422

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:16pm

re: #416 RogueOne

That means we wouldn’t be having this entire debate if the government weren’t involved in the marriage business. Marriage is a religious/social construction. If Church A wants to endorse gay marriage and Church B doesn’t then so be it. The only “marriage” contracts that should be recognized by the government should be civil contracts.

If you mean that the government should civil union everybody and leave the rest to the churches, then yes I agree this is a perfectly reasonable outcome to me that I would support.

423

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:24pm

re: #419 jamesfirecat

That doesn’t change the fact that Americans would have to be suffering from some kind of horrific cross cultural amnesia to not realize it was Republican policies on the economy which f***ed us up so much in the first place!

Agree, but on some of this stuff the electorate’s memory is limited. It just is.

424

webevintage Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:33pm

re: #269 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

DON’T DO IT! DON’T YOU DARE GET SUCKED IN!

My favorite Twilight spoof:

Youtube Video

425

Political Atheist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:34pm

BBL

426

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:58:59pm

re: #422 jamesfirecat

If you mean that the government should civil union everybody and leave the rest to the churches, then yes I agree this is a perfectly reasonable outcome to me that I would support.

Toss in “Down with the Man!” and we could go out for drinks.

427

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:59:08pm

re: #104 Gus 802

It’s a trap!!11ty

‘You have to imagine me with a giant squid head when I say that’.

(Bonus marks to anyone who gets that)

428

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:59:28pm

BTW, is it ironic that a fireman hit on me today?

429

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:59:29pm

re: #420 RogueOne

The libertarian argument is the winner this time and I think most people are moving in that direction. It removes the religious objections held by the majority of opponents.

I’ll be very honest, I think the holders of the religious objections would still be objecting. Except now they’d be objecting also the the godless nation that took their marriage away.

430

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:59:47pm

re: #423 garhighway

Agree, but on some of this stuff the electorate’s memory is limited. It just is.

Damn it America I love you, but you a stupid son of a bitch sometimes….

431

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 3:59:50pm

re: #378 ArchangelMichael

I think I’m going to have to avoid Facebook for a day or two now. The sniping back and forth between the two sides of this is starting and it will get ugly. Especially amongst some of my friends who cant shut up, assume everyone thinks like they do, have no fucking clue what they are talking about half the time, and then get pissed off when challenged. They are legion.

The “hide” button is an excellent feature on Facebook. I don’t have to read my high classmates rants calling President Obama’s mother a global sex tourist.

432

garhighway Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #426 RogueOne

Toss in “Down with the Man!” and we could go out for drinks.

Drinks? Good plan. I’m outta here.

433

webevintage Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Damnit. How is it possible to mislay a can opener in your own kitchen?

Quite easily I’ve found…

434

simoom Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:00:39pm

Jack Cafferty emulates Glenn Beck with his question for the day:
Is a second American revolution coming?

The first one started with the Boston Tea Party. More than 230 years later, some think the time is ripe for a second American revolution.
An editorial in “Investors Business Daily” suggests people are now asking if the government does more harm than good—and if we should change what it does and the way it does it.

Much of the blame is laid on what it calls the “imperial presidency.” It says that through his policies – like record spending and deficits, taxes, health care, etc. -President Obama is “diminishing America from within”.

And there are growing signs that many Americans have had a bellyful of President Obama’s policies.
…
There’s immigration, which one day may be seen as the turning point in this struggle. While the federal government refuses to enforce the nation’s immigration laws and refuses to secure our borders – it’s going after Arizona in court for trying to protect its own citizens from an invasion of illegal aliens.

One Arizona sheriff says the federal government “has become our enemy and is taking us to court at a time when we need help.”
…
Here’s my question to you: Is a second American revolution coming?

Dumbass.

435

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:01:04pm

re: #429 SanFranciscoZionist

I’ll be very honest, I think the holders of the religious objections would still be objecting. Except now they’d be objecting also the the godless nation that took their marriage away.

I think your right about that given that quite a few states have not just banned gay marriage but civil unions as well. Honestly, I do like the idea of just civil unioning everyone and if an individual church or house of worship wants to bless the marriage, it shouldn’t be a problem.

436

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:01:27pm

re: #428 RogueOne

BTW, is it ironic that a fireman hit on me today?

I don’t think so…now, if he had proposed to you…

437

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:01:38pm

facebook wall is a blast right now

438

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:01:57pm

Celebrate!

Youtube Video

439

RogueOne Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:02:42pm

Time for dinner, Nite everyone. Congrats to California, I think, this is just the start.

440

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:02:57pm

re: #427 Kruk

‘You have to imagine me with a giant squid head when I say that’.

(Bonus marks to anyone who gets that)

Damn Cthulhuist

441

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:03:24pm

re: #404 jaunte

Doesn’t it take a long time to open a can with those?

Yes. That’s why I also own two manual and one electric can openers as well.

442

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:03:29pm

re: #434 simoom

Jack Cafferty emulates Glenn Beck with his question for the day:
Is a second American revolution coming?

Dumbass.

We had a second American Revolution already, it was called the civil war, those who rose up against the consolidation of federal power LOST get over it.

The fact that the gov now has access to to weapons your standard civiliian can’t hope to match would just make the third one that much more of a slaughter….

443

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #434 simoom

Jack Cafferty emulates Glenn Beck with his question for the day:
Is a second American revolution coming?

Short answer? No.

444

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:04:03pm

re: #144 Locker

Fox Poll on the issue has the right of it. Check out these “answer”..

Yes — Prop. 8 violates the Constitution. 30% (59 votes)
No — Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I don’t care what the judge thinks about the Constitution. 62% (121 votes)
I’m not sure but shouldn’t the voters views count for something? 7% (14 votes)
Other 1%

Feel free to add your opinion:

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Sometimes I feel Fox News polls are set up purely to ‘punk’ the wingnuts.

445

goddamnedfrank Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:04:29pm

re: #416 RogueOne

That means we wouldn’t be having this entire debate if the government weren’t involved in the marriage business. Marriage is a religious/social construction. If Church A wants to endorse gay marriage and Church B doesn’t then so be it. The only “marriage” contracts that should be recognized by the government should be civil contracts.

This is a semantic argument, as the government is only in “the marriage business” in as much as it is a civil contract. Which is why the debate is primarily not over whether gays should officially have the same access to the benefits of the contract, but whether they should have access to the word.

446

Ojoe Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:06:19pm

As soon as Church and State are actually separated in this matter, the better, or we will never hear the end of it nor escape its corrosive effects on our society.

IMHO the state has no business monkeying with marriage, let it confine itself to something called partnership.

There are many churches, people can find one that suites them, to their level of understanding.

447

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:06:46pm

re: #434 simoom

Jack Cafferty emulates Glenn Beck with his question for the day:
Is a second American revolution coming?

Dumbass.

I recall a day when a college friend and I were in her mom’s car, bitching and moaning about how George W. Bush being president was the end of American liberty, and the worst thing that had ever happened.

Her mom said, “The problem with you kids is that you’ve never lost an election before Get over it. In four to eight years we’ll have a different president.”

448

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:06:48pm

re: #442 jamesfirecat

We had a second American Revolution already, it was called the civil war, those who rose up against the consolidation of federal power LOST get over it.

The fact that the gov now has access to to weapons your standard civiliian can’t hope to match would just make the third one that much more of a slaughter…

Actually, the Civil war was less about the consolidation of Federal power and more about the non-slave states asserting that their laws were just as valid slave states, who were trying to claim their laws regarding runaway slaves and property ownership took precedence.

449

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:06:54pm

re: #446 Ojoe

Always liked this idea, seems like an easy shortcut out of the whole problem :P

450

boxhead Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:07:06pm

Three cheers for common sense and decency.

I was listening to some phone calls on an NPR show. The backlash is in full effect with all the usual lack of facts. One lady said USA was special cause they left Europe to be a Christian Nation and that our Founders were Theists. Oh well.

Hopefully some of my friends will take advantage of this ruling and get hitched!!!

451

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:07:08pm

re: #445 goddamnedfrank

This is a semantic argument, as the government is only in “the marriage business” in as much as it is a civil contract. Which is why the debate is primarily not over whether gays should officially have the same access to the benefits of the contract, but whether they should have access to the word.

Except for the places where it isn’t…

Constitutional amendments banning same-gender civil marriage, civil unions, and domestic partnerships and related benefits have been adopted in Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, and Utah. Some of these constitutional amendments also ban civil unions and domestic partnerships and related benefits for opposite-gender couples. A federal judge struck down Nebraska’s amendment in 2005.

pediatrics.aappublications.org

452

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:07:16pm

re: #428 RogueOne

BTW, is it ironic that a fireman hit on me today?

Yes, in a universal way, I think it is.

453

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:07:32pm

re: #435 HappyWarrior

I think your right about that given that quite a few states have not just banned gay marriage but civil unions as well. Honestly, I do like the idea of just civil unioning everyone and if an individual church or house of worship wants to bless the marriage, it shouldn’t be a problem.

Agreed in abstract theory.

Best T-shirt to come out of the Prop 8 adventure: “OK, What Sacrament Are We Going To Let The Government Define Next?”

454

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #448 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thank you! Whenever someone says something like that I get all aggro, but somebody said it nicer for me :D

455

Ojoe Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:08:21pm

re: #449 windsagio

The door is there; it is not locked.

The shouting continues because many people are addicted to “struggle.”

I would like to see solutions, and peace.

456

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:08:29pm

re: #448 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, the Civil war was less about the consolidation of Federal power and more about the non-slave states asserting that their laws were just as valid slave states, who were trying to claim their laws regarding runaway slaves and property ownership took precedence.

If it wasn’t about consolidation of federal power why do/did so many people claim it was about “STATES RIGHTS!”????

457

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:08:38pm

re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

I recall a day when a college friend and I were in her mom’s car, bitching and moaning about how George W. Bush being president was the end of American liberty, and the worst thing that had ever happened.

Her mom said, “The problem with you kids is that you’ve never lost an election before Get over it. In four to eight years we’ll have a different president.”

Yeah I remember acting like this when Bush got re-elected and after I realized it wasn’t the end of the world, my views on Bush moderated. Still wouldn’t have voted for him but it wasn’t the teenage immaturity I had towards the man in his first term.

458

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:09:10pm

re: #456 jamesfirecat

If it wasn’t about consolidation of federal power why do/did so many people claim it was about “STATES RIGHTS!”???

Because they fail to understand history.

459

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:09:19pm

re: #455 Ojoe

Not sure what you mean by that.

Second line is certainly mega-true tho’ :)

460

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:09:54pm

re: #456 jamesfirecat

Because ‘states rights!’ was code for ‘The right to have slaves, and expand slavery into the rest of the world!’

461

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:11:34pm

re: #450 boxhead

…listening to some phone calls on an NPR show. The backlash is in full effect with all the usual lack of facts. One lady said USA was special cause they left Europe to be a Christian Nation and that our Founders were Theists.

Some of our founders probably were theists and deists alike. I take no issue with that. What people don’t seem to get though, is that the founders were not theocratic-minded evangelicals who wanted to subdue the young Constitution in the name of Christianity.

462

Ojoe Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:12:24pm

re: #459 windsagio

Th first line means that there is a solution staring us all in the face.

If more of us were rational we’d implement it.

463

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:12:54pm

re: #462 Ojoe

Gotcha, thanks :D

464

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #462 Ojoe

Actually its a bit tough, because I feel everyone in general is too attached to the word ‘marriage’.

(which people on both sides find an annoying statement :P)

465

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:14:32pm

Or as scholars on the subject put it;

The historian James McPherson[3] noted that Southerners were inconsistent on the states’ rights issue, and that Northern states tried to protect the rights of their states against the South during the Gag Rule and fugitive slave law controversies.

The historian William H. Freehling[4] noted that the South’s argument for a states’ rights to secede was different from Thomas Jefferson’s, in that Jefferson based such a right on the unalienable equal rights of man. The South’s version of such a right was modified to be consistent with slavery, and with the South’s blend of democracy and authoritarianism.[4]

Various historians and commentators, including Adams[5], Sinha[6], and Richards[7], among others, are of the opinion that the States’ Rights argument made by supporters of the Confederacy was in fact a thinly disguised justification of continued slavery in the southern states, and/or moves by the Southern states to violate the states’ rights of Northern states.

Historian Henry Brooks Adams explains that the anti-slavery North took a consistent and principled stand on states’ rights against Federal encroachment throughout its history, while the Southern states, whenever they saw an opportunity to expand slavery and the reach of the slave power, often conveniently forgot the principle of states’ rights—and fought in favor of Federal centralization:
….
Sinha[6] and Richards[7] both conclude their cases by arguing that the Civil War had nothing to do with “states’ rights”, democracy, or resistance to arbitrary power. They argue that it was instead the result of the increasing cognitive dissonance in the minds of Northerners and (some) Southern non-slaveowners between the ideals that the United States was founded upon and identified itself as standing for, as expressed in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights, and the reality that the slave-power represented, as what they describe as an anti-democratic, counter-republican, oligarchic, despotic, authoritarian, if not totalitarian, movement for ownership of human beings as the personal chattels of the slaver. As this cognitive dissonance increased, the people of the Northern states, and the Northern states themselves, became increasingly inclined to resist the encroachments of the slave power upon their states’ rights and encroachments of the slave power by and upon the Federal Government of the United States. The slave power, having failed to maintain its dominance of the Federal Government through democratic means, sought other means of maintaining its dominance of the Federal Government, by means of military aggression, by right of force and coercion, and thus, the Civil War occurred.

466

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:15:40pm

re: #174 Lidane

Those assholes would make the Puritans look like the life of the party. They can keep their “traditional” marriage and get bent.

Rules to live by:

1)I’d rather party with the sinners than cry with the saints.
2) A fool and his money are soon partying

467

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:16:37pm

re: #178 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

James, clearly you’re confusing a trappings of a Heretical Cult, properly dealt with by an Eccliasarchy Confessor with an War of Faith duely declared by the Holy Synod of Terra, as laid down by Sebastion Thor after the Reign of Blood, with the structure of the Emperor’s most holy Astartes.

You just described the plot of every novel written by Terry Goodkind.

468

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:17:23pm

re: #466 Kruk

Rules to live by:

1)I’d rather party with the sinners than cry with the saints.
2) A fool and his money are soon partying

3) If you have to ask, then its loaded

469

Ojoe Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:17:46pm

re: #464 windsagio

Well there are two things here, hetero couples and gay couples; logic would have there be two words as well.

Anyway this is a religious thing & not for the State to decide, if you ask me.

BBL

470

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:17:48pm

re: #460 windsagio

Because ‘states rights!’ was code for ‘The right to have slaves, and expand slavery into the rest of the world!’

Heh…….. slavery was big outside of the US already.

471

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:17:51pm

re: #455 Ojoe

The door is there; it is not locked.

The shouting continues because many people are addicted to “struggle.”

I would like to see solutions, and peace.

agreed….too many people thrive on conflict, even seek it out
often solutions are less important than ego extending argument…
LGF is no different than any other group

472

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:19:19pm

re: #467 Kruk

You just described the plot of every novel written by Terry Goodkind.

Completely separate genre and backgrounds, despite some surface similarities in naming conventions.

473

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:19:21pm

re: #470 Mr Pancakes

was dying in the ‘civilized world’. But we’re getting off subject >>

re: #469 Ojoe

Can’t go all the way with you on that. A relationship is a relationship really.

474

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:19:59pm

re: #460 windsagio

Because ‘states rights!’ was code for ‘The right to have slaves, and expand slavery into the rest of the world!’

it wasn’t a code ….states rights and slavery are inseparable in that debate

475

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:20:08pm

Ya know I see some apologists of the Confederacy argue that slavery would have died out. I don’t know how they can say that honestly. Cuba and Brazil ended slavery in to the late 1880’s.

476

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:21:25pm

re: #474 albusteve

if by that you mean ‘the right of slave states to impress their laws upon the north and force territories to have slaves legal’, you’re absolutely right.

That’s a pretty wide definition of ‘states rights’ tho >>

477

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:21:26pm

The FoxNews comments are as classy as ever tonight…

478

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:21:35pm

re: #470 Mr Pancakes

Heh… slavery was big outside of the US already.

No way

Redneck/rich/southern plantation owners invented it!!
//

479

lostlakehiker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:21:42pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

I really do think eventually we’ll look back at the attempts to ban gay marriage as we do bans of interracial marriage. I find it amusing that there are people out there who actually think their marriage is being threatened by a gay couple marrying or the equally pathetic that this discriminates against them.

re: #428 RogueOne

BTW, is it ironic that a fireman hit on me today?

That’s bad. You’re hosed.

480

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:21:53pm

re: #238 windsagio

Also made me think of all the joy this would cause amongst the thousands of Twilight slash/fic writers.

I have wrtten some fanfic in my time. Believe me when I say we need no excuses or reasons for what we write.

481

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:22:25pm

re: #474 albusteve

How was your appointment?

482

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:22:44pm

re: #474 albusteve

it wasn’t a code …states rights and slavery are inseparable in that debate

Quoting again;

the states’ rights that the Southern states claimed were actually:

States’ rights to engage in slavery;

States’ rights to suppress the freedom of speech of those opposed to slavery or its expansion, by seizing abolitionist literature from the mail;

States’ rights to violate the sovereignty of the non-slave States by sending slave-catchers into their territory to enforce the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850, to seize supposed runaway slaves by force of arms.

States’ rights to send armed Border Ruffians into the territories of the United States such as Kansas to engage in massive vote fraud and acts of violence; see Slave Power and Bleeding Kansas;

States’ rights to deem portions of their population “beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect”, by means of the Dred Scott decision;

States’ rights to secede from the United States after an election whose result they disagreed with, the election in 1860 of Abraham Lincoln;

States’ rights to seize forts and arsenals of the United States following their purported secession; see Fort Sumter;

States’ rights to have a less democratic form of government

483

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:22:53pm

re: #476 windsagio

if by that you mean ‘the right of slave states to impress their laws upon the north and force territories to have slaves legal’, you’re absolutely right.

That’s a pretty wide definition of ‘states rights’ tho >>

My states rights trump your state’s rights!

Come on people it’s only the exact same sort of cognitive dissonance we see where religion is involved today.

484

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:23:14pm

re: #475 HappyWarrior

Ya know I see some apologists of the Confederacy argue that slavery would have died out. I don’t know how they can say that honestly. Cuba and Brazil ended slavery in to the late 1880’s.

That’s a good point and one worth consideration. From my study of slavery, the plantation owner controlled every aspect of his slaves’ lives, including procreation.

485

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:23:14pm

re: #481 sattv4u2

How was your appointment?

spooky…
it’s all set up

486

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:00pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

So, I guess that if a case about child custody comes up, any judge with children should immediately recuse him or herself?

Let’s go straight for the jugular: Should any judge who isn’t a straight, white, WASP male recuse himself/herself from any civil rights case?

487

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:01pm

re: #483 jamesfirecat

Its the same cultural heritage too, largely.

488

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:01pm

re: #485 albusteve

spooky…
it’s all set up

for what it’s worth, we’re here for you

and seriously, let me know if there is anything I can do

489

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:14pm

re: #487 windsagio

man I’m actually gonna get reamed for that, sigh hindsight.

490

deranged cat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:35pm

re: #434 simoom
re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

i remember my high school band teacher saying “every 4-8 years, America goes through a revolution”. which makes me think…
1. yea, that’s kinda true and
2. damn, my highschool band teacher was discussing politics with highschool kids?

491

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:24:53pm

re: #480 Kruk

I so wanna ask you about this!

So I will!

What do you write fics for?

492

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:25:54pm

Scissor Sisters ” Take Your Mama”Youtube Video

493

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:26:16pm

re: #484 eclectic infidel

That’s a good point and one worth consideration. From my study of slavery, the plantation owner controlled every aspect of his slaves’ lives, including procreation.

Yep. Did ya ever see the mockumentary, CSA that was a what if the Confederacy had won. It was very thought provoking.

494

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:26:18pm

re: #488 sattv4u2

for what it’s worth, we’re here for you

and seriously, let me know if there is anything I can do

thanks…think of it as relief and comfort

495

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:26:25pm

re: #492 prairiefire

Scissor Sisters ” Take Your Mama”

[Video]

Awesome! + for SS!

496

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:27:03pm

re: #257 SpaceJesus

team jacob v. team edward, 67 U.S. 278

The Twilight Saga: One girl’s heartbreaking choice between beastiality and necrophilia.

497

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:28:06pm

re: #493 HappyWarrior

Yep. Did ya ever see the mockumentary, CSA that was a what if the Confederacy had won. It was very thought provoking.

You know, I haven’t seen it yet, but it is in my Netflix queue.

498

Tiny alien kittens are watching you Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:29:23pm

Well mom is absolutely against this ruling, because of the bible…sigh. :(

Of course people used bible quotes to oppose mixed raced marriages too, now hardly anyone except the worst hardcore racists would do that. So…on we go to the appeals court, then the Supreme court, then hopefully this will finally be settled, at least in the law.

Funny, she asked me to get her some lobster tails the next time I go shopping, I had to fight back the urge to tell her that the bible prohibits the eating of shellfish right next to where it says that Gays should be killed. ;)

499

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:30:24pm

re: #498 ausador

Funny thing, there’s actually a huge amount of literature and discussion over whether Christians (especially Christian Jews) should stay Kosher or not >>

500

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:30:47pm

re: #493 HappyWarrior

Yep. Did ya ever see the mockumentary, CSA that was a what if the Confederacy had won. It was very thought provoking.

Ever read “The Domination? series”

The world of The Domination diverges from our world at the time of the American Revolutionary War, when the Netherlands declares war on the UK, resulting in the loss of its Cape Colony to the British. After defeat in Revolutionary War, the Loyalists who historically went to Canada are instead resettled in the new Crown Colony of Drakia (named after Sir Francis Drake) in South Africa, taking their slaves with them. Thousands of Hessian German mercenaries who fought on the Loyalist side are also given asylum there. The Crown Colony of Drakia (later, the Dominion of Draka) is an aggressive militaristic slave-owning society reinforced over the course of the 19th century by Icelanders fleeing their island after 1783-84 Volcanic devastation. 25,000 Icelanders offered asylum in Drakia, arriving 1783-86. French royalists, 150,000 defeated American Confederates and other reactionary refugees. The much earlier Dutch Boer settlers are completely assimilated by these subsequent immigrants. The genealogical lineage of both the original Boer and Southern Loyalist settlers is almost overwhelmingly Anglo-Saxon, Nordic, Germanic and Celtic although later immigrants are French Protestant Huguenots fleeing persecution from Roman Catholics, and then the aforementioned French aristocrats seeking sanctuary from the French Revolution. Any religious beliefs, affiliations or doctrines brought by earlier settlers are soon abandoned by them, but are seen as useful to control serfs under them. This ‘tool’ becomes a favoured method of the Draka. The Draka capital city is Archona, on the site of our own world’s Pretoria.

501

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:31:56pm

re: #48 darthstar

Sounds like a stay isn’t going to happen, based on the strong language in the decision.

The stay is already in effect.

502

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:32:15pm

re: #494 albusteve

thanks…think of it as relief and comfort

i know

I’ve had a couple of relatives that have had to do it

503

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:32:25pm

re: #500 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes and then they proceed to invent tech at an incredible rate so that they can curb stomp the rest of the world in a hilariously improbable manner while no one notices somebody taking control of all of Africa until it is too late…

504

HappyWarrior Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:33:09pm

re: #500 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah never. It’s funny for all my love of history, I’ve never have read any alternative history.

505

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:33:44pm

re: #504 HappyWarrior

Nah never. Because of my love of history, I’ve never have read any alternative history.

FixT!

506

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:34:03pm

re: #498 ausador

Funny, she asked me to get her some lobster tails the next time I go shopping, I had to fight back the urge to tell her that the bible prohibits the eating of shellfish right next to where it says that Gays should be killed. ;)

I double-dog dare you.

507

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:34:20pm

re: #78 Lidane

Is there even a higher court? From what I understand, Prop 8 was grounded entirely on California law. If that’s true, wouldn’t that mean that the feds don’t have any room to intervene, since it’s ultimately a state matter?

The feds can intervene. The attorneys for the proposition had filed briefs even before the judge published his decision. There is a stay until Friday, and from what I’m thinking, this will head to the U.S. Supreme Court. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the judges vote along religious lines, considering the judge’s decision (which I read, all 138 pages of it).

508

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:35:03pm

re: #485 albusteve

spooky…
it’s all set up

Well I hope all goes well Steve. You’ll know who your friends are.

My neighbor friend drove basically non-stop across country last year to bury his son. Leg must have been in a odd position and noticed when he arrived his leg turned kinda black. Gangrene…… they took his leg off there and he eventually flew back to San Diego and they chopped off some more.

Anyway…… went to visit him the other day and he was rolling and scuttling around on the carpet installing a TV cable into the back bedroom …. the guy has a great attitude.

He’s throwing a big party in Sep to commemorate the loss of his leg.

509

Kragar Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #503 jamesfirecat

Yes and then they proceed to invent tech at an incredible rate so that they can curb stomp the rest of the world in a hilariously improbable manner while no one notices somebody taking control of all of Africa until it is too late…

Yeah, incredibly silly premise.

510

3eff Jeff Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:35:30pm

re: #493 HappyWarrior

Harry Turtledove’s Timeline 191 series is pretty good. Gen. McClellan’s troops do not find the Orders 191, and instead of driving Lee back at Antietam, Lee trounces McClellan, and marches on Philadelphia. France and the UK recognize the CSA, and the Union is forced to surrender, and Lincoln leaves office in disgrace after the next election.

Turtledove posits that slavery in the south wouldn’t last past the 1880s, when a second war between the USA and CSA would break out and the UK and France (both abolitionist) use their support of the CSA to get them to manumit their slaves after the conflict.

511

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:36:56pm

re: #125 Max D. Reinhardt

16 marriages and counting, have been ruined by this ruling.

How so?

512

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:37:38pm

re: #491 windsagio

I so wanna ask you about this!

So I will!

What do you write fics for?

Wing Commander.

Yes, I wrote fanfic about a computer game.

I need to die now.

513

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:38:24pm

re: #512 Kruk

Be proud!

One of my friends started by doing DBZ fanfics, and ‘graduated’ to harry potter >>

514

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:38:47pm

re: #508 Mr Pancakes

btw ,, my son i ADDICTED to the Stuffed French Toast

The other night, when I was leaving work (at about 10 p.m.) I called home to see if they needed me to get anything. He wanted (and got) an order of them for his dessert!

515

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:17pm

re: #512 Kruk

Wing Commander.

Yes, I wrote fanfic about a computer game.

I need to die now.

Hah! I wrote a 36 chapter, 231,832 word long Final Fantasty VII fic, which was SephirothxAeris with OCs!

516

TheMatrix31 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:33pm

Sorry to hear about your leg, Steve. Best of luck bro!

517

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:43pm

re: #169 Spare O’Lake

Is it safe to assume that this case will be going all the way to the SCOTUS?

I think so.

518

3eff Jeff Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:44pm

Also, I cheered when I saw the news! I went and read the conclusion of the decision. What a great read.

519

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:48pm

re: #515 jamesfirecat

Hah! I wrote a 36 chapter, 231,832 word long Final Fantasty VII fic, which was SephirothxAeris with OCs!

I so want that to be true!

520

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:39:52pm

re: #508 Mr Pancakes

Well I hope all goes well Steve. You’ll know who your friends are.

My neighbor friend drove basically non-stop across country last year to bury his son. Leg must have been in a odd position and noticed when he arrived his leg turned kinda black. Gangrene… they took his leg off there and he eventually flew back to San Diego and they chopped off some more.

Anyway… went to visit him the other day and he was rolling and scuttling around on the carpet installing a TV cable into the back bedroom … the guy has a great attitude.

He’s throwing a big party in Sep to commemorate the loss of his leg.

I’ll remember that, thanks
I’ll get by better than the hell I’ve been through…
looking forward to it in a perverse way…I’m out of options

521

Varek Raith Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:40:08pm

re: #512 Kruk

Wing Commander.

Yes, I wrote fanfic about a computer game.

I need to die now.

Wing Commander!
You. Are. Awesome.

522

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:40:40pm

re: #514 sattv4u2

btw ,, my son i ADDICTED to the Stuffed French Toast

The other night, when I was leaving work (at about 10 p.m.) I called home to see if they needed me to get anything. He wanted (and got) an order of them for his dessert!

I love IHOP ….. some are much better than others and I know where they are.

523

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:40:41pm

re: #516 TheMatrix31

Sorry to hear about your leg, Steve. Best of luck bro!

thanks…
nothing to it really

524

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:40:47pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

That went to the Supremes, no?

But without Diana Ross. (hehe)

525

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:41:11pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

My father keeps trying to bring people out on this. “How is my marriage threatened if some lesbians also get married to each other? Do you think my forty-year marriage will be less special to me because my gay coworkers are also getting married? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to work?”

Please thank your father for me.

526

Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:41:24pm

re: #520 albusteve

I’ll remember that, thanks
I’ll get by better than the hell I’ve been through…
looking forward to it in a perverse way…I’m out of options

We’ll be think about you. Best of luck and check in with us as soon as you can.

527

Varek Raith Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:41:35pm

re: #523 albusteve

thanks…
nothing to it really

Good luck!

528

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:41:42pm

re: #511 sffilk

How so?

I took it as a joke.

529

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:41:58pm

re: #522 Mr Pancakes

I love IHOP … some are much better than others and I know where they are.

I’m lucky. There are three good ones within 10 miles of my house

When I lived in Boston, the two closest to me SUCKED

530

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:42:04pm

re: #475 HappyWarrior

Ya know I see some apologists of the Confederacy argue that slavery would have died out. I don’t know how they can say that honestly. Cuba and Brazil ended slavery in to the late 1880’s.

Power concedes nothing without a struggle.

Power also says, after the struggle, that they would totally have conceded that if you had just given it a little more time to think it over.

531

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:42:10pm

re: #519 windsagio

I so want that to be true!

Here

fanfiction.net

Due to FF.net being f***ed up all the scene breaks have been lost however…

(My editor is trying to fix it but I’m not sure how soon he’ll get around to it)

532

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:42:50pm

re: #531 jamesfirecat

Here

[Link: www.fanfiction.net…]

Due to FF.net being f***ed up all the scene breaks have been lost however…

(My editor is trying to fix it but I’m not sure how soon he’ll get around to it)

You have made me deeply happy :)

/no offense but not sure if I’m actually up to reading it tho >

533

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:42:50pm

re: #526 Killgore Trout

We’ll be think about you. Best of luck and check in with us as soon as you can.

live blog?…too weird?
you’re the best

534

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:43:47pm

re: #513 windsagio

Be proud!

One of my friends started by doing DBZ fanfics, and ‘graduated’ to harry potter >>

What’s sad is when I Google my own name, the link to one of those fics comes up ahead of the scientific papers I wrote later. :)

535

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:44:17pm

Guess what image Hot Air decided to slap on their open thread for this topic?

Just guess…

536

lostlakehiker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:44:42pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

You guys don’t think the 9th circuit would overturn this ruling do ya? I would really be shocked. The Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.

The SC will hear the case. They can’t punt this one. Other courts in other states have let bans on gay marriage stand. When one federal court says one thing and another says the other, the SC has to break the tie.

537

TheMatrix31 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:44:45pm

re: #535 JasonA

Already been covered.

538

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:44:55pm

re: #272 Locker

Would you or anyone happen to have a link to the transcript sites? Thanks much!

Here:

msnbcmedia.msn.com

539

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:45:18pm

re: #533 albusteve

live blog?…too weird?
you’re the best

hey ,, don’t laugh

one of our biggest clients does two ways of surgical procedures from all over the world. Last week there was a new heart/ liver transplant technique being done in Germany that we broadcast, picked it up here in the states and sent it via fiber to half a dozen US hospitals

540

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:45:26pm

re: #498 ausador

Well mom is absolutely against this ruling, because of the bible…sigh. :(

Of course people used bible quotes to oppose mixed raced marriages too, now hardly anyone except the worst hardcore racists would do that. So…on we go to the appeals court, then the Supreme court, then hopefully this will finally be settled, at least in the law.

Funny, she asked me to get her some lobster tails the next time I go shopping, I had to fight back the urge to tell her that the bible prohibits the eating of shellfish right next to where it says that Gays should be killed. ;)

I think it’s in Cold Sassy Tree, where the kid explains that the whole family had to go without pork for months because Grandpa took to reading the Bible.

541

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:46:31pm

re: #533 albusteve

live blog?…too weird?
you’re the best

Set up a live operation room web cam….. I’ll be there (maybe face-first on the carpet) but I’ll be there!

542

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:46:53pm

re: #532 windsagio

You have made me deeply happy :)

/no offense but not sure if I’m actually up to reading it tho >

Leave me comments if you do.

It shouldn’t be too bad other than the lack of scene breaks which probably you can deal with as long as you read slowly and don’t mind if things seem jump crazily from one scene to the next without reason.

Also I’m none too fond of “she said/he said tags” so it may be hard to tell who is talking at times.

As a general rule I tend to have someone act and then speak use that as a rule of thumb at it should be pretty obvious what is going on…

543

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:46:58pm

re: #537 TheMatrix31

Already been covered.

Ah.

544

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:47:05pm

re: #529 sattv4u2

I’m lucky. There are three good ones within 10 miles of my house

When I lived in Boston, the two closest to me SUCKED

I wish the one by me was cleaner. Pretty grimy and lots of flies. My kids LOVED the food.

545

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:47:15pm

re: #543 JasonA

Ah.

Choo

ftfy

546

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:47:28pm

re: #532 windsagio

You have made me deeply happy :)

/no offense but not sure if I’m actually up to reading it tho >

Heh. Since we’re baring our geek souls today, here is how I spent my teenage years (and a good chunk of my twenties).

htl.solsector.net

547

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:47:49pm

re: #544 prairiefire

I wish the one by me was cleaner. Pretty grimy and lots of flies. My kids LOVED the food.

The three nearest me are immaculate

548

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:48:22pm

re: #544 prairiefire

I wish the one by me was cleaner. Pretty grimy and lots of flies. My kids LOVED the food.

Hahhaha you wouldn’t do well at a TJ street taco stand.

549

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:48:27pm

re: #378 ArchangelMichael

I think I’m going to have to avoid Facebook for a day or two now. The sniping back and forth between the two sides of this is starting and it will get ugly. Especially amongst some of my friends who cant shut up, assume everyone thinks like they do, have no fucking clue what they are talking about half the time, and then get pissed off when challenged. They are legion.

The funny thing is all of my friends have been in favor of the ruling on FB. I’m the one telling them that it’s not over yet, since there were legal papers filed by the proposition proponent’s attorneys even before the ruling came out. To quote the prophet Yogi of Berra, “It ain’t over until it’s over.”

550

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:48:58pm

re: #379 Kruk

I fully support the right of gays to marry. They should be as miserable as the rest of us. :D

Someone’s been listening to Kinky Friedman (Freeman? Frieman?? I forget). Speaking of which, has anyone heard from him on this?

551

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:49:17pm

re: #546 Kruk

YOu are also awesome, I wish I had something this cool to share :)

552

prairiefire Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:50:12pm

re: #540 SanFranciscoZionist

That reminds me of “The Oldest Living Confederate Widow” were her husband’s last words to her were “You were never enough” because he was GAY!
We are coming full circle here…

553

sattv4u2 Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:50:23pm

re: #548 Mr Pancakes

Hahhaha you wouldn’t do well at a ~~TJ street~~ American Ballpark ~~taco~~ food stand.

abclocal.go.com

ftfy

554

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:50:23pm

re: #551 windsagio

YOu are also awesome, I wish I had something this cool to share :)

I just hope my future employers think the same as you do. :)

555

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:51:05pm

re: #551 windsagio

YOu are also awesome, I wish I had something this cool to share :)

I never bothered with a web page but I posted on my livejournal an entire Fantasy story that I’m still reworking and revising before I eventually try to turn it into a book.

I could use LFG page to go through it chapter by chapter at some point if people are interested….

556

Nimed Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:51:41pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

Power concedes nothing without a struggle.

Power also says, after the struggle, that they would totally have conceded that if you had just given it a little more time to think it over.

Yeah. Power has a really shitty personality.

557

lostlakehiker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:51:49pm

re: #508 Mr Pancakes

Well I hope all goes well Steve. You’ll know who your friends are.

My neighbor friend drove basically non-stop across country last year to bury his son. Leg must have been in a odd position and noticed when he arrived his leg turned kinda black. Gangrene… they took his leg off there and he eventually flew back to San Diego and they chopped off some more.

Anyway… went to visit him the other day and he was rolling and scuttling around on the carpet installing a TV cable into the back bedroom … the guy has a great attitude.

He’s throwing a big party in Sep to commemorate the loss of his leg.

Young people who’ve lost one strap on the artificial leg, put hiking boots on, grab a pair of trekking poles, and head off up the trail in the national parks. It’s an inconvenience to need the poles for balance, but life is full of inconveniences.

558

albusteve Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:53:01pm

re: #557 lostlakehiker

Young people who’ve lost one strap on the artificial leg, put hiking boots on, grab a pair of trekking poles, and head off up the trail in the national parks. It’s an inconvenience to need the poles for balance, but life is full of inconveniences.

mine will do double duty as a bong

559

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:53:07pm

re: #555 jamesfirecat

Maybe a sample, the whole thing seems like not quite right for the system. I shoudn’t second guess our host tho >>

560

3eff Jeff Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:53:23pm

re: #549 sffilk

The funny thing is all of my friends have been in favor of the ruling on FB. I’m the one telling them that it’s not over yet, since there were legal papers filed by the proposition proponent’s attorneys even before the ruling came out. To quote the prophet Yogi of Berra, “It ain’t over until it’s over.”

We won the first round. It’s a battle. It’s not the end of the campaign, but it’s a victory (and if the appeals go our way, we’ll have won a big victory, but not the war). I think a little celebration is in order.

561

sffilk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:53:51pm

re: #528 JasonA

I took it as a joke.

Ah. Humor. It is a difficult concept.

(Brent Spiner as Data, Star Trek: The Next Generation, “The Outrageous Okona”)

562

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:55:35pm

re: #559 windsagio

Maybe a sample, the whole thing seems like not quite right for the system. I shoudn’t second guess our host tho >>

I’ll ask Charles about it or something, though I’m less that in love with the idea of posting bits and pieces of my book to be since I want to turn it into a genuine work and sell it some day.

The fanfic stuff I would be only too glad to share even I need to go and personally add in the scene change marks…

563

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:56:00pm

re: #553 sattv4u2

[Link: abclocal.go.com…]

ftfy

Hahahhaa No doubt.

Food inspectors? We don’t need no stinking food inspectors!

The day TJ sends out food inspectors is the day I’ll not want to go back….. I don’t want TJ to be like Orange County, I want TJ to be TJ …… just eat where the Mexicans go and where there is a large turnover…. you’ll always be fine.

564

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:56:19pm

re: #561 sffilk

(Brent Spiner as Data, Star Trek: The Next Generation, “The Outrageous Okona”)

Who was saying what Saavik said in the Wrath of Khan.

565

Kruk Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:56:46pm

re: #560 3eff Jeff

We won the first round. It’s a battle. It’s not the end of the campaign, but it’s a victory (and if the appeals go our way, we’ll have won a big victory, but not the war). I think a little celebration is in order.

‘This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.’ - Churchill, after the battle of El-Alamein. It was the first time the British had defeated the Axis on land. The battle for gay rights is a long way from over, but this is a huge win.

566

theheat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:56:50pm

Well, great. I hope all those commies and liberals are happy now, they’ve just shat over and devalued my 20-some years of hetero bliss.

Thanks for taking the shine and specialness off what should only be between a man and woman. Thanks for making an exclusive club open to any old pervert. (You know darned well the next step will be people marrying their dogs or whatever.)

Between the health insurance benefits and tax breaks, I hope they’re happy they’re dragging America straight in the toilet, as if we can afford it. And don’t even get started on legal adoptions. It’s bad enough they open Disneyland to these homos, for special homo day. Homos and their homo kids. Jesus must be crying right now. Crying and puking.

This is just fucking super. If this is what marriage means in America, it means jack shit, and I’m throwing in the towel. Mr. Heat’s getting his walking papers the minute he comes home from work.
//

channeling people I know in real life

567

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:57:02pm

re: #562 jamesfirecat

See that’s cool, sharing something you’ve created :)

568

3eff Jeff Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:59:03pm

re: #565 Kruk

‘This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.’ - Churchill, after the battle of El-Alamein. It was the first time the British had defeated the Axis on land. The battle for gay rights is a long way from over, but this is a huge win.

Churchill always manages to outdo me. I’m never going to catch up to that guy, and he’s dead.

569

Mr Pancakes Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:59:10pm

re: #557 lostlakehiker

Young people who’ve lost one strap on the artificial leg, put hiking boots on, grab a pair of trekking poles, and head off up the trail in the national parks. It’s an inconvenience to need the poles for balance, but life is full of inconveniences.

The problem is he’s 70 years old and almost lost his other leg…… he waiting for that one to heal so he can start practicing with his computerized leg. It’s going to be a long road.

570

Four More Tears Wed, Aug 4, 2010 4:59:58pm

It’s a good time to revisit this:

Youtube Video

The storm is growing…

571

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:00:51pm

re: #567 windsagio

See that’s cool, sharing something you’ve created :)

Want me to email you the first chapter with scene breaks?

572

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:01:08pm

re: #570 JasonA

I know its supposed to be serious, but that ad makes me laugh every time.

573

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:01:37pm

re: #571 jamesfirecat

If I can figure out how to get you my mail safely sure :)

(that blue link isn’t it :p)

574

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:02:36pm

re: #570 JasonA

It’s a good time to revisit this:

[Video]The storm is growing…

And we should revisit this also!

Youtube Video

575

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:03:38pm

re: #566 theheat

Heh. I have maybe four practicing Christians in my FB network. One I know for sure is a biblical literalist & fundamentalist who believes that Islam is Satanic, gay rights are a signal that the anti-Christ is coming, and that Jews are damned to hell if they reject Jesus. That aside, she’s a decent and caring person. A few years ago she sort of challenged me when I made some post about the same sex marriages in San Francisco, quoting something like “well what about our choice to choose?” Meaning that everyone else should have a say as to whether or not gay Americans should be able to wed in the first place. I simply responded with “Well, X, I’m sure glad that the Brown vs. Brd of Education” was decided at the court level and wasn’t a referendum. That ended that conversation with a resounding thud. I’ll see if she bothers to respond to my posts this time around.

576

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:03:43pm

re: #573 windsagio

If I can figure out how to get you my mail safely sure :)

(that blue link isn’t it :p)

Oh is there a way you’d like to give me yours, or should I give you mine so you can email me yours?

577

Jack Burton Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:03:47pm

re: #570 JasonA

It’s a good time to revisit this:

[Video]

The storm is growing…

OH Noes!!!11! THE GAYthering storm!

578

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:06:04pm

re: #576 jamesfirecat

oh hell, send to my nick > gmail and I’ll get it :p

Just worried because I’m not exactly the most loved person ;)

579

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:06:26pm

re: #578 windsagio

Might not get to it right away tho’, but I’ll take a look :D

580

theheat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:09:46pm

re: #575 eclectic infidel

I pretty much have run off the fundies in my personal circle because I couldn’t reconcile how they could be so hateful and judgmental and ill-informed, and yet describe them as decent and caring.

Mostly, because they weren’t.

581

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:10:47pm

re: #579 windsagio

Might not get to it right away tho’, but I’ll take a look :D

Sent, let me know if it doesn’t show up in another ten min or so…

582

Nimed Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:13:17pm

Finished making some phone calls to celebrate the wonderful news.

Oh man. This ruling is great. The post update rocks (thanks Gus). And I’m happy that lizards mostly feel the same way on gay marriage.

Right now I’m paying a rare visit to Malkin’s blog. The Justice Walker is being a liberal activist judge every other comment, of course. A sample of comments:

Can NAMBLA be very far behind? I mean they are in the minority.

And

What else would you expect from an activist, imperialistic judge? As far as I’m concerned, the CA prop system is dead. Why bother if the losers of any proposition vote can just find an activist judge to throw it out?

And my favorite:

Hell, I don’t need no stinkin’ ruling to understand this — you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Another activist judge inventing constitutional reasons to enshrine into law the most radical revolution in the history of mankind.
Entirely during my adult life (dating the queer revolution from Stonewall in 1969), we have moved from homosexuality being something that happened discretely in the private lives of those who are inflicted with this disease, to overthrowing two thousand years of specifically Christian theology (and going back who knows how far in Judaism and other traditions). Even the famously randy Greeks did not let people marry on the basis of this perversity.

Oohh, the tears, they taste like strawberry cheesecake!

/petty

583

ReamWorks SKG Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:14:42pm

Obama has been 100% consistent. He does not support marriage equality. He does not believe in equality for same sex couples. He quickly fired his minister of 20 years, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whose church supports same-sex marriage, and replaced him with Rick Warren, who lobbies for the death penalty for homosexual activity.

It would be tricky for a Republican to try to use the argument that the Democratic party is to “soft on gays” as a wedge issue in the next election, but they’d probably still try.

584

windsagio Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:19:04pm

re: #581 jamesfirecat

Got it, I’ll read it tonight :)

585

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:23:04pm

re: #583 reuven

Obama has been 100% consistent. He does not support marriage equality. He does not believe in equality for same sex couples. He quickly fired his minister of 20 years, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whose church supports same-sex marriage, and replaced him with Rick Warren, who lobbies for the death penalty for homosexual activity.

It would be tricky for a Republican to try to use the argument that the Democratic party is to “soft on gays” as a wedge issue in the next election, but they’d probably still try.

So wait, Obama ditched Wright because he was Pro-Gay?

586

William of Orange Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:46:15pm

I just heard reports from Salt Lake City that there have been signings of heads exploding!!

Huurah for gay rights and such, even though gay not my personal cup of (hahaha!) tea, but seeing the fringes of society (yes, I’m talking to you Bible hugging folks!) go ballistic is always a great sight to see.

587

webevintage Wed, Aug 4, 2010 5:48:34pm

re: #577 ArchangelMichael

OH Noes!!!11! THE GAYthering storm!

/

My favorite:
Youtube Video

Gay Rain Army

588

William of Orange Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:16:22pm

Improtant twitters:

twitter.com (celebrating)

twitter.com (mourning) :)

twitter.com (off the charts!)

589

William of Orange Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:17:39pm

(Damn! Next time spell check… “Important”…)

590

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:20:18pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

Power concedes nothing without a struggle.

Power also says, after the struggle, that they would totally have conceded that if you had just given it a little more time to think it over.

Power totally meant to do that

Power doesn’t need you guys!

Power is taking his soccer ball and going home to play Nintendo, screw you guys, you’re losers anyway

591

lostlakehiker Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:40:07pm

re: #101 Bubblehead II

“This is not representative democracy, this is tyranny of the minority.”

What these idiots often forget is the U.S is a Republic, not a Democracy in and of itself. Majority rule is not always the case. Sometimes the minority does have the Constitution on their side and will prevail when a bad law is passed by the majority.

Kinda sucks (in their opinion) when the Constitution they claim to love so much trumps their silly assed laws.

What will you say if the SC reverses this ruling? Will you then grant that you have misinterpreted the constitution, and that the majority has the constitution on its side?

I expect not.

Many a bad law is passed by the majority. The recent health bill, for example. I’m far from confident that the SC will strike it down; the SC does not see its job as reversing Congress when Congress writes a bad law. Only a law that is flatly incompatible with the constitution.

592

Lidane Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:45:05pm

re: #585 jamesfirecat

So wait, Obama ditched Wright because he was Pro-Gay?

And here I thought he ditched Wright because of his controversial sermons, not because Wright was some paragon of gay rights virtue.

Who knew?

593

ProTARDISLiberal Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:49:11pm

re: #515 jamesfirecat

This is awesome that FFVII got mentioned! However, there is a certain scene that makes me doubt your grouping….

Between the resounding thud at the Temecula protest, the events in NYC about the Community Center and Bloomsberg defense of Muslims, and the torpedoing of Prop 8, this has been a fine week.

594

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 6:59:36pm

re: #593 ProLifeLiberal

This is awesome that FFVII got mentioned! However, there is a certain scene that makes me doubt your grouping…

Between the resounding thud at the Temecula protest, the events in NYC about the Community Center and Bloomsberg defense of Muslims, and the torpedoing of Prop 8, this has been a fine week.

In this Fic Sephiroth got a nat 20 on his will save in Niblehime and didn’t go crazy…

595

ihateronpaul Wed, Aug 4, 2010 7:04:46pm

I’m sick of it all….
I’m sick of people saying “well aren’t you a single issue voter”
I’m sick of people saying that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice
I’m sick of people saying that marriage will be “ruined”
I’m sick of people saying that gays can be “cured”
I’m sick of people saying that it is O.K. to ban gay marriage
I’m sick of people saying “it’s not my problem”
I’m sick of people saying “it’s not the right time”
I’m sick of people saying “it’s against my religion”
This country was founding on a separation of church and state.
You are allowed to whine all you want because the dirty gays are getting rights, and if you are, go fuck yourself.
I don’t have time for filth like yourself
and if you can’t understand how important this issue is, then you aren’t fucking paying attention.
I don’t want your “morals”.
Not in my fucking America.

I’m sick of people saying that it’s wrong for be to not vote republican as a result of this issue.
I care.
Sorry.
I really do.
I give a shit.

596

SpaceJesus Wed, Aug 4, 2010 7:11:37pm

man i hope utah secedes over this. it would be so much fun to put down a utah rebellion with tanks and apache gunships like in command and conquer or something

597

brownbagj Wed, Aug 4, 2010 7:24:43pm

I read on a previous thread about how “conservatives” were not about progress and that thinking of the individual is out of style.

Yet, here I am a small government conservative happy with this ruling as it is smaller government via giving individuals the right to marry whoever they choose.

We “real” small government conservatives are pretty progressive you know.

Happy for all my gay friends. Happier still for liberty and freedom.

598

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 7:24:57pm

re: #596 SpaceJesus

man i hope utah secedes over this. it would be so much fun to put down a utah rebellion with tanks and apache gunships like in command and conquer or something

Ion cannon ready!

599

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Aug 4, 2010 7:47:27pm

re: #591 lostlakehiker

Many a bad law is passed by the majority.

Prop 8, for example.

600

RadicalModerate Wed, Aug 4, 2010 8:10:19pm

I have the feeling that the FoxNews Poll cited upthread is about to get quietly “disappeared” as things aren’t going exactly as expected…

foxnews.com

Thank you for voting!
Yes — Prop. 8 violates the Constitution. 49% (55,675 votes)
No — Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I don’t care what the judge thinks about the Constitution. 44% (49,554 votes)
I’m not sure but shouldn’t the voters views count for something? 6% (6,783 votes)
Other (leave a comment). 1% (929 votes)
Total Votes: 112,941

601

jamesfirecat Wed, Aug 4, 2010 8:15:11pm

re: #600 RadicalModerate

I have the feeling that the FoxNews Poll cited upthread is about to get quietly “disappeared” as things aren’t going exactly as expected…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Thank you for voting!
Yes — Prop. 8 violates the Constitution. 49% (55,675 votes)
No — Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman. I don’t care what the judge thinks about the Constitution. 44% (49,554 votes)
I’m not sure but shouldn’t the voters views count for something? 6% (6,783 votes)
Other (leave a comment). 1% (929 votes)
Total Votes: 112,941

What the f*** is going on at Fox news?

I’m gonna go vote just to skew things a little more.

602

Jaerik Wed, Aug 4, 2010 9:42:10pm

Some interesting findings of fact in the judge’s ruling. Keep in mind that during appeals, findings of fact generally can’t be easily overruled. You can typically only argue on process grounds or interpretation of said fact.

- Marriage is secular right, not privilege.
- Sexual orientation innate and not choice, protected status akin to race.
- Traditional religious moral arguments cannot be used to deny secular rights.
- Children, marriage are not harmed in any demonstrable way by acceptance of gay marriage.
- Prop 8 lacks any historical, scientific, or socio-economic rational basis for acceptance scrutiny under 14th Amendment.

603

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 10:00:23pm

re: #591 lostlakehiker

What will you say if the SC reverses this ruling? Will you then grant that you have misinterpreted the constitution, and that the majority has the constitution on its side?

I expect not.

Many a bad law is passed by the majority. The recent health bill, for example. I’m far from confident that the SC will strike it down; the SC does not see its job as reversing Congress when Congress writes a bad law. Only a law that is flatly incompatible with the constitution.

if you have any belief that health care reform will be struck down by SCOTUS at all, in any way, I’d love to know how you came to that conclusion

604

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 4, 2010 10:01:36pm

re: #596 SpaceJesus

man i hope utah secedes over this. it would be so much fun to put down a utah rebellion with tanks and apache gunships like in command and conquer or something

sneak an engineer into Temple Square, take it over, turn it blue, have it start pumping out sonic tanks

605

shai_au Thu, Aug 5, 2010 1:00:50am

Nice one, California!

I only hope the same thing can happen in Australia, but to use Aussie parlance, it’s Not Bloody Likely.

606

boxhead Thu, Aug 5, 2010 1:55:33am

re: #461 eclectic infidel

Some of our founders probably were theists and deists alike. I take no issue with that. What people don’t seem to get though, is that the founders were not theocratic-minded evangelicals who wanted to subdue the young Constitution in the name of Christianity.

Yes.. In other words, our authors of the the Constitution were smart folks who did not all agree, but compromised for the good of all.

Wow…. what a concept!

I LOVE this Country…

607

Wozza Matter? Thu, Aug 5, 2010 4:58:44am

re: #596 SpaceJesus

man i hope utah secedes over this. it would be so much fun to put down a utah rebellion with tanks and apache gunships like in command and conquer or something

But do that have Tiberium mines we can “liberate” and sell to Exxon?

608

sffilk Thu, Aug 5, 2010 5:32:39am

re: #575 eclectic infidel

Heh. I have maybe four practicing Christians in my FB network. One I know for sure is a biblical literalist & fundamentalist who believes that Islam is Satanic, gay rights are a signal that the anti-Christ is coming, and that Jews are damned to hell if they reject Jesus. That aside, she’s a decent and caring person. A few years ago she sort of challenged me when I made some post about the same sex marriages in San Francisco, quoting something like “well what about our choice to choose?” Meaning that everyone else should have a say as to whether or not gay Americans should be able to wed in the first place. I simply responded with “Well, X, I’m sure glad that the Brown vs. Brd of Education” was decided at the court level and wasn’t a referendum. That ended that conversation with a resounding thud. I’ll see if she bothers to respond to my posts this time around.

Let us know what happens, OK?

609

Buck Thu, Aug 5, 2010 9:07:57am

re: #159 palomino

All politicians are Zeligs. As for Prop 8, Obama opposed a referendum specifically aimed at taking away existing rights, even if he was personally uncomfortable with those rights. He was never some sort of anti-gay zealot.

The center of gravity on this issue has moved so much in just a few years that it’s unlikely he’s going to become an anti-gay marriage crusader. And he’s already the most gay-friendly president we’ve had. Look at DADT and his overall record.

Did I miss the news? Did Obama do anything (other than talk) on DADT? He could stop it it in a second…. he certainly could stop investigations.

Most gay friendly President? I wonder how you measure that (outside of talking a good talk)?

610

Lawrence Schmerel Thu, Aug 5, 2010 10:30:11am

Yes, but, I still wonder whether this would have happened if Al Gore had been elected in 2000.

611

sffilk Thu, Aug 5, 2010 12:46:18pm

re: #560 3eff Jeff

We won the first round. It’s a battle. It’s not the end of the campaign, but it’s a victory (and if the appeals go our way, we’ll have won a big victory, but not the war). I think a little celebration is in order.

I’ll agree with you, but I’ll mute it a bit.

612

sffilk Thu, Aug 5, 2010 12:47:26pm

re: #610 Lawrence Schmerel

Yes, but, I still wonder whether this would have happened if Al Gore had been elected in 2000.

Probably not, but one can never be too sure.

613

Yashmak Thu, Aug 5, 2010 4:44:31pm

re: #600 RadicalModerate

I have the feeling that the FoxNews Poll cited upthread is about to get quietly “disappeared” as things aren’t going exactly as expected…

At one point, when I voted, those who said it was good that Prop 8 got overturned were at 60%. So it’s been a rollercoaster over there :)

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