Gutfeld’s Stunt: A Ground Zero Gay Bar

At Mediaite, Jon Bershad really gets a belly laugh out of Greg Gutfeld’s new idea: Greg Gutfeld To Open A Gay Bar Next To Ground Zero Mosque To Cater To “Islamic Gay Men”.

No, this is not a joke. In fact, it is instead one of the most brilliant pieces of provocations in recent years. Greg Gutfeld from Fox News’ Red Eye announced today via his blog that he is actively speaking to investors and plans on opening a gay bar next to the controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero in New York. To make matters worse (better?) the bar will be specifically designed to cater to homosexuals of the Islamic faith. God, this is going to be an exciting block.

Well, isn’t that lovely. The same people who scream and yell about protecting the sanctity of marriage against the gay menace are now going to use gay people in a little reverse bigotry ploy against Muslims. It’s a circle jerk of hate.

And of course, the ones guffawing at this “brilliant provocation” would have embolisms of rage if someone proposed doing the same thing next to a Christian church. But never mind the hypocrisy, full speed ahead! Hurr durr durr!

I’ve never seen anything like the deluge of intolerance and prejudice that’s been released over the Park51 project.

Jump to bottom

305 comments

1 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:49:15am

"And of course, the same people who are guffawing at this “brilliant provocation” would have embolisms of rage if someone proposed doing the same thing next to a Christian church. But never mind the hypocrisy, full speed ahead! Hurr durr durr!"

You know I hear that Ted Haggard is getting back into the organized religion business.... why don't we put that theory to the test!

2 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:49:35am

People can go there after they have dinner at the Williamsburg "Trayf" pork restaurant.

3 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:49:48am

What idiocy, this reminds me of the "Pig Races" someone opened a while back where an Islamic Group was trying to build a mosque. I really do support gays being able to have a bar anywhere, but you are entirely correct in pointing out the hypocrisy of the haters proposing this.

4 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:50:04am

What a great quote Charles. "It’s a circle jerk of hate." LOL.

5 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:51:28am

re: #3 Thanos

What idiocy, this reminds me of the "Pig Races" someone opened a while back where an Islamic Group was trying to build a mosque. I really do support gays being able to have a bar anywhere, but you are entirely correct in pointing out the hypocrisy of the haters proposing this.

It's also similar to the French neo-Nazis and their "pork parties." Yuk yuk. This is the kind of stuff that makes haters chuckle.

6 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:51:54am

re: #3 Thanos
Gays can have their bars where the rest of us can have bars. Next to a church or Mosque or school? No. Not just no, but in fact Hell No. And located as a deliberate provocation? Let them serve lemonade. No booze.

7 MJ  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:52:50am

Andrew Sullivan likes the idea. He like it so much that he's having a "Name that Bar" contest:


Name That Bar!

Fox News' Mr Gutfeld proposes building a gay bar right next to the Cordoba Initiative complex in downtown Manhattan. Fantastic idea. That's exactly the right response to an expression of religious freedom: the expression of freedom for gay people as well. In fact, it's such a great idea that it could be followed across the country: gay bars right next to churches and mosques that condemn homosexuality...

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

8 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:53:51am

What is Greg Gutfeld's position on gay marriage?

9 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:54:21am

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

What is Greg Gutfeld's position on gay marriage?

He wouldn't be on Fox News if he was a supporter of gay rights.

10 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:54:32am

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

What is Greg Gutfeld's position on gay marriage?

He's a bottom.

11 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:54:36am

Typical conservative response.Open a gay bar only to promote divisive hate which they thrive on. Fucking scum.

12 middy  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:55:01am
I’ve never seen anything like the deluge of intolerance and prejudice that’s been released over the Park51 project.

What about the deluge of intolerance and prejudice that’s been released over President Obama?

13 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:56:04am

re: #9 Charles

He wouldn't be on Fox News if he was a supporter of gay rights.

I ask, because I can't find an actual opinion, not saying it doesn't exist, I just can't find his position. I don't think working for Fox make one automatically anti-gay anything. If anyone has a link to some information, I would be interested.

14 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:56:40am

re: #12 middy

What about the deluge of intolerance and prejudice that’s been released over President Obama?

They don't go out of their way to deliberately antagonize the President of the United States. Perhaps because they know the Secret Service will bust their chops if they so much as think it, but still, they whine from a distance about him. Here, they're actively involved in expressing their bigotry up close and personally.

15 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:56:55am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

I don't think working for Fox make one automatically anti-gay anything.

Actually, yes ... it pretty much does.

16 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:57:12am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

He's not a fan of Ellen DeGeneres talking about her marriage:


Meanwhile, idiot Fox overnight host Greg Gutfeld — in his "Greg-alogue" segment — says Ellen should keep her wedding to herself, and that speaking about it is equivalent to talking about your "bowel movements."


[Link: www.queerty.com...]

17 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:57:26am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

"And of course, the same people who are guffawing at this “brilliant provocation” would have embolisms of rage if someone proposed doing the same thing next to a Christian church. But never mind the hypocrisy, full speed ahead! Hurr durr durr!"

You know I hear that Ted Haggard is getting back into the organized religion business... why don't we put that theory to the test!

There has to be recent examples of churches doing this.

18 subsailor68  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:57:34am

OT, but folks have been following the news of the plane crash in Alaska, and it appears from a family friend that Sen. Stevens was one of those killed:

Stevens Killed in Plane Crash

19 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:58:09am

Gufeld lives and works in NYC? That's news to me given that if he even walked down the block, the proposed site is next to the Dakota Roadhouse on one side and the Amish Marketplace on the other. One's a bar, the other is a takeout/grocery store.

I believe both have alcohol available, and alcohol is frowned upon under Islamic law, and yet the Cordoba House backers are still moving ahead with the proposal despite these preexisting businesses predating their efforts.

There's been no word for those businesses to move. Nothing. And now Gutfeld makes this idiotic proposal, the intent of which is to bring still venom to the discussion.

As Charles notes - the same people who heap nothing but scorn and derision on gays for their life-choices (damn them to burn in Hell) are now using that as the hook to oppose the community center/mosque. Tools.

Sheesh.

20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 9:58:26am

FFS

21 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:00:11am

Childish.

22 brennant  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:00:12am

re: #18 subsailor68

Just heard that on the news too.

Sad.

23 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:00:29am

re: #15 Charles

Actually, yes ... it pretty much does.

Then I suspect he is pretty much a hypocrite, considering he calls himself a libertarian, and according to the libertarian platforms and opinions on the GLBT community, they are not against gay marriage.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Gutfeld has some 'plaining to do.

24 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:00:38am

re: #19 lawhawk


As Charles notes - the same people who heap nothing but scorn and derision on gays for their life-choices (damn them to burn in Hell) are now using that as the hook to oppose the community center/mosque. Tools.

Sheesh.

They do it because they can't think of anything more demeaning than having to be around gay people. Which tells you a lot about them.

25 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:00:43am

Gee why not a dog track next to the Mosque......or maybe bacon burger place.

26 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:01:01am

Sorry to go OT- [Link: www.ktuu.com...]
Apparently Ted Stevens was killed in a plane crash. Story doesn't mention Sean O'Keefe.

27 Ericus58  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:01:52am

re: #18 subsailor68

OT, but folks have been following the news of the plane crash in Alaska, and it appears from a family friend that Sen. Stevens was one of those killed:

Stevens Killed in Plane Crash

I feel bad for his family, and for those others lost in this crash.
Just like Robert Byrd, Stevens sure could bring home the funding for his State's projects.

28 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:01:59am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Then I suspect he is pretty much a hypocrite, considering he calls himself a libertarian, and according to the libertarian platforms and opinions on the GLBT community, they are not against gay marriage.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Gutfeld has some 'plaining to do.

Rand Paul calls himself a libertarian too, and he's in favor of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. The word "libertarian" does not mean what it used to.

29 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:02am

One would think after the 8 years of Bush bashing, the other side would refuse to stoop to that level, but nooooooo....they've decided to double down on the vitriol.
For shame.

30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:04am

re: #18 subsailor68

Well. On your way to a hunting/fishing trip with good friends at the age of 86?

Don't seem like a bad way to go, if you ask me.

31 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:07am

My radio just said the plane flew into a mountain.

32 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:21am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

And all this situation needs is Fred Phelps to chime in to get the superfecta of stupidity.

33 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:23am

re: #28 Charles

Rand Paul calls himself a libertarian too, and he's in favor of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. The word "libertarian" does not mean what it used to.

Evidently.

34 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:02:44am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Then I suspect he is pretty much a hypocrite, considering he calls himself a libertarian, and according to the libertarian platforms and opinions on the GLBT community, they are not against gay marriage.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Gutfeld has some 'plaining to do.

The word "libertarian" these days is used as a catch-all for anyone who doesn't want to say what they really are.

35 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:03:23am

Establishing a restaurant or a bar or any other commercial venue just for the purpose of pissing off a certain population is a really stupid business model.

36 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:03:35am

I really like the movie North Country. At the end, when the dude realizes what a jackass he was being, to his own daughter. His own daughter. The shame he felt; at some point hypocrites like this must feel the same thing. Probably a pretty low moment.

37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:04:08am

re: #28 Charles

The word "libertarian" does not mean what it used to.

I believe people think it makes them look hip.

38 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:04:35am

re: #9 Charles

He wouldn't be on Fox News if he was a supporter of gay rights.

Maybe he is and that's why he's on at 3 a.m. on weekdays.

39 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:05:02am

This makes no sense. Honestly, I don't get it. Why is this offensive?

Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

40 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:05:22am

re: #18 subsailor68

OT, but folks have been following the news of the plane crash in Alaska, and it appears from a family friend that Sen. Stevens was one of those killed:

Stevens Killed in Plane Crash

I saw that earlier today.
Very sad.

41 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:05:43am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

This makes no sense. Honestly, I don't get it. Why is this offensive?

Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

Ask Dinnerjacket.

42 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:06:14am

re: #6 Rightwingconspirator

Gays can have their bars where the rest of us can have bars. Next to a church or Mosque or school? No. Not just no, but in fact Hell No. And located as a deliberate provocation? Let them serve lemonade. No booze.

You are absolutely right, bars should not be built next to churches of any stripe. They should be inside the church.

Best way to augment their income. And a time saving strategy, having the sinners come to the mount rather than the mount going to the sinners.

43 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:06:46am

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I believe people think it makes them look hip.

My girlfriend goes to University of Chicago, a hotbed of libertarian activity and thought. But the funny thing is that when you start really asking these young folks what they believe, it becomes pretty apparent they don't believe in much real libertarian philosophy. Just a nice little label they put on.

44 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:07:20am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

This makes no sense. Honestly, I don't get it. Why is this offensive?

Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

Yes. It is based on the thought that the worst thing you can to do a neighbor is open a gay bar next door. Not a junkyard or a tannery or a smelter or a landfill, but a gay bar. So it comments on what he thinks of Muslims and what he thinks of himself.

45 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:07:51am

re: #26 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry to go OT- [Link: www.ktuu.com...]
Apparently Ted Stevens was killed in a plane crash. Story doesn't mention Sean O'Keefe.

I just saw Sean O'Keefe mentioned in a story.
He was Chancellor at LSU for a short period of time.
Wow.

46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:00am

re: #40 reine.de.tout

T'was a shame his career ended as it did. He knew how to bring "home the salmon" tho.

47 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

This makes no sense. Honestly, I don't get it. Why is this offensive?

Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

"For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

48 theheat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:10am
However, just because I support Muslim Americans in their fight against anti-Islam prejudice, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get a few dings for their religion’s own prejudice against homosexuals... Still though, the only thing that would make this plan perfect would be if Gutfeld created a chain of gay bars and plopped them down next to churches and synagogues since it’s not like those religions have been super open-minded.

That, pretty much. Underscored. I really do understand the reason this bar is being done where it's being done, and it's a shitty shitty reason, and is being done to offend and provoke. But I'm also not going to whitewash religious prejudice against homosexuals for any religion, and I don't feel it's incredibly important to be sensitive about the irrational hatred so many share about homosexuals.

You know, why not set up KKK headquarters near Ground Zero, and maybe a Scientology gift center? Let's pimp that area out with all the diversity that can be found across America, and let these people go at each other's throats. Let's show the world what an open minded society we are, and how all these niches receive the same protection and freedoms.

And at some point, maybe someone will pick up on the irony that since 2001 our country could not get its shit together enough to put up a decent memorial to all those who lost their lives in NYC on 9/11, while every other special interest - no matter how unwelcome or freaky - was able to get funding, and get something built "in the shadow" of a building that doesn't even exist yet.

49 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:15am

re: #7 MJ

Andrew Sullivan likes the idea. He like it so much that he's having a "Name that Bar" contest:

Name That Bar!

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

///The Prophet Poker?

(My "hilarious" suggestion)

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:28am

re: #43 Soap_Man

Exactly what I mean. It's akin to a fashion statement.

51 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:45am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

T'was a shame his career ended as it did. He knew how to bring "home the salmon" tho.

I'm always sad when I see people dying in plane crashes.
Just - an awful thing, IMO.

52 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:49am

re: #42 b_sharp

You are absolutely right, bars should not be built next to churches of any stripe. They should be inside the church.

Best way to augment their income. And a time saving strategy, having the sinners come to the mount rather than the mount going to the sinners.

But then you open the possibilities that someone will mount the sinners.

53 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:08:52am

re: #29 Taqyia2Me

One would think after the 8 years of Bush bashing, the other side would refuse to stoop to that level, but nooo...they've decided to double down on the vitriol.
For shame.

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

54 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:09:01am

re: #44 garhighway

Yes. It is based on the thought that the worst thing you can to do a neighbor is open a gay bar next door. Not a junkyard or a tannery or a smelter or a landfill, but a gay bar. So it comments on what he thinks of Muslims and what he thinks of himself.

Well, it would seem that the joke, ultimately, would be on the dumbasses trying to waste money on an absurd business model, no?

Religion makes absolutely no sense to me.

55 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:09:07am

Ok. Worky. Out.

56 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:09:19am

re: #29 Taqyia2Me

One would think after the 8 years of Bush bashing, the other side would refuse to stoop to that level, but nooo...they've decided to double down on the vitriol.
For shame.

There is an ugly amount of polarization going on. I am sorely disappointed with the GOP and others who are supposedly conservative (another word that has lost its traditional meaning).

I really detest going to the ballot box to choose which flavor of nanny state I want. I'd rather go knowing the candidates are guided by the constitution, their conscience and the faith in the American people to govern themselves wisely.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

57 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:09:28am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

You're right. More like 12.

58 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:09:52am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

What planet were you living on?

59 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:10:06am

Bush was treated like caesar until after his reelection.

60 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:10:29am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

You're 100% correct

It was 7 years (he had a 3 month "honeymoon" period after ggetting elected,, then another grace period for 9 months post 9/11~!)

61 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:10:31am

re: #26 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry to go OT- [Link: www.ktuu.com...]
Apparently Ted Stevens was killed in a plane crash. Story doesn't mention Sean O'Keefe.

Oh....

This is depressing news I will fly my Meme at half mast today..

62 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:10:32am

re: #36 cliffster

I really like the movie North Country. At the end, when the dude realizes what a jackass he was being, to his own daughter. His own daughter. The shame he felt; at some point hypocrites like this must feel the same thing. Probably a pretty low moment.


Sadly many abusers double down on the abuse and shout out their own conscience. It is far easier to blame others than to take responsibility.

63 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:04am

re: #59 Amory Blaine

Bush was treated like A caesar SALAD until after his reelection.

tossed!!

64 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:22am

re: #60 sattv4u2

You're 100% correct

It was 7 years (he had a 3 month "honeymoon" period after ggetting elected,, then another grace period for 9 months post 9/11~!)

Well, if you add the time after he left office that people continued to bash him, then it actually comes out to be 8 years and change.

65 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:36am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.


Good point. We are going on 10 years of Bush bashing now. The President even enjoys the occasional Bush blaming.

66 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:38am

Please note -- this has absolutely nothing to do with a valid criticism of homophobia in Islam. That's very obviously not the intent of this stupid stunt.

67 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:40am

re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio just said the plane flew into a mountain.

I love the way your radio always talks to you.

68 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:48am

re: #64 thedopefishlives

Well, if you add the time after he left office that people continued to bash him, then it actually comes out to be 8 years and change.

Good point ,, and the meter is STILL running!!

69 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:11:50am

re: #60 sattv4u2

You're 100% correct

It was 7 years (he had a 3 month "honeymoon" period after ggetting elected,, then another grace period for 9 months post 9/11~!)

And we'll have a solid 8 years of Obama bashing.

70 steve_davis  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:16am

I understand that they're going to include a dog kennel next to the gay bar, because they know Muslims hate dogs. And the dogs are going to be gay. I'm trying to figure out what I can open to just irritate the piss out of the Teabaggers. Probably a public school. And I'm going to offer sex education. For second graders. And it will come with one of those fold-up beds attached to a wall, so when I'm teaching second-graders about sex, I can bring in a 50-dollar hooker and have a kind of multimedia demonstration. And then the kids can make shoebox dioramas of what they've learned.

71 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:20am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

But then you open the possibilities that someone will mount the sinners.

A good time had by all.

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:25am

re: #51 reine.de.tout

Agreed, my point however is... Most 86 year olds die frail. He didn't.

If I have my choice? I'll go at 86 in a huge ball of fire over the Alaskan wilderness.

Hell yeah!

73 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:27am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

"Bush Derangement Syndrome" ("BDS") is a pejorative political neologism coined by Charles Krauthammer, an American conservative political columnist and former psychiatrist, in a 2003 column...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

74 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:34am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

I love the way your radio always talks to you.

I have a sofa that does that to me

(don't ask!!)

75 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:36am

re: #66 Charles

Please note -- this has absolutely nothing to do with a valid criticism of homophobia in Islam. That's very obviously not the intent of this stupid stunt.

But, if Islam were not homophobic, the stunt would be utterly ineffective.

Thus, this bothers me not a bit.

76 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:12:48am

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed, my point however is... Most 86 year olds die frail. He didn't.

If I have my choice? I'll go at 86 in a huge ball of fire over the Alaskan wilderness.

Hell yeah!

Well, you've got a point!

77 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:13:18am

re: #65 DaddyG

Good point. We are going on 10 years of Bush bashing now. The President even enjoys the occasional Bush blaming.

If Obama loses reelection, who wants to bet the new president will blame most of his/her problems on O?

I'm taking bets right now. I'm gonna be a rich man.

78 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:13:29am

re: #65 DaddyG

Good point. We are going on 10 years of Bush bashing now. The President even enjoys the occasional Bush blaming.

Does "criticism" = "bashing"?

If I say the tax cuts were bad policy, am I "Bush bashing"?

Just trying to understand the nomenclature.

79 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:13:47am

re: #61 jamesfirecat

Oh...

This is depressing news I will fly my Meme at half mast today..

I went half mast last night. My wife was sorely disappointed.

80 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:13:51am

re: #75 Fozzie Bear

But, if Islam were not homophobic, the stunt would be utterly ineffective.

Thus, this bothers me not a bit.

Ah, the idea of this stunt is to appeal to perceived latent homophobia in Americans at large, and Islam in particular. "What's the most offensive thing you can do to a person?" "Oh, open a gay bar next door to his house/business."

81 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:07am

re: #42 b_sharp

You are absolutely right, bars should not be built next to churches of any stripe. They should be inside the church.

Best way to augment their income. And a time saving strategy, having the sinners come to the mount rather than the mount going to the sinners.

If you want a bar inside a church, come to a Catholic Church ...
/

82 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:11am

re: #74 sattv4u2

Sofia won't.

83 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:12am

Let's build a gay strip club next to a Church!
HURHURHUR!

84 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:14am

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed, my point however is... Most 86 year olds die frail. He didn't.

If I have my choice? I'll go at 86 in a huge ball of fire over the Alaskan wilderness.

Hell yeah!

Don't most Alaskans go out by wandering out on an ice flow and getting eaten by a polar bear. I saw that in a film in social studies once. /

85 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:31am

re: #69 Varek Raith

And we'll have a solid 8 years of Obama bashing.

Damn. Beat me to it. :)

86 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14:55am

re: #78 garhighway

Does "criticism" = "bashing"?

If I say the tax cuts were bad policy, am I "Bush bashing"?

Just trying to understand the nomenclature.

Not at all

But if I say I'm against HCR bill I'm a "racist" because it's Obamas bill

Yup,,, if Biden was President and offered the same bill I would be 100% for it ,, yup !

87 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:15:17am

re: #80 thedopefishlives

Ah, the idea of this stunt is to appeal to perceived latent homophobia in Americans at large, and Islam in particular. "What's the most offensive thing you can do to a person?" "Oh, open a gay bar next door to his house/business."

The only people the existence of a gay bar would bother is bigots. I don't care if bigots are bothered.

88 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:15:27am

re: #82 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sofia won't.

[Link: simsnews.site90.net...]

sigh

89 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:15:33am

re: #77 Soap_Man

If Obama loses reelection, who wants to bet the new president will blame most of his/her problems on O?

I'm taking bets right now. I'm gonna be a rich man.


No contest. And its a very sad state of affairs in American politics. Somehow its always the other guys fault. The buck never stops (literally and figuratively).

90 subsailor68  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:15:41am

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed, my point however is... Most 86 year olds die frail. He didn't.

If I have my choice? I'll go at 86 in a huge ball of fire over the Alaskan wilderness.

Hell yeah!

Hi FBV! To be honest, at that age I'd hope I was in the seat next to you. No bedridden, lingering, painful, dehumanizing death for me thank you very much!

91 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:15:45am

re: #69 Varek Raith

And we'll have a solid 8 years of Obama bashing.

Probably.
I would hate to be President.
At least half the folks (and usually more than half) are upset with you at every given moment in time.

I saw this earlier today -

92 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:16:04am

re: #87 Fozzie Bear

The only people the existence of a gay bar would bother is bigots. I don't care if bigots are bothered.

In actuality, yes, that's true. However, the very idea that people would/should be bothered by this stunt is, in and of itself, offensive.

93 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:16:09am

re: #67 reine.de.tout

My radio talks to me too. I tend to yell back. Heh.

94 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:16:17am

re: #88 sattv4u2

Ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound bag.

Rawr.

95 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:16:37am

re: #86 sattv4u2

Not at all

But if I say I'm against HCR bill I'm a "racist" because it's Obamas bill

Says who? Anyone here?

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:17:15am

Geeze folks. They're still bashing FDR! Reagan, Wilson, Kennedy, Bush... et al.

97 avanti  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:17:35am

It's the gays !

98 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:17:35am

re: #92 thedopefishlives

In actuality, yes, that's true. However, the very idea that people would/should be bothered by this stunt is, in and of itself, offensive.

It just strikes me as somewhat analogous to a man burning his own money in the middle of the street to spite his neighbors. If I were the neighbor, I'd just be laughing at the moron who is burning his money.

99 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:17:40am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

There was no 8 years of Bush Bashing.

You are right, it is at about ten years now.

100 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:13am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Geeze folks. They're still bashing FDR! Reagan, Wilson, Kennedy, Bush... et al.

Heck, I know some historians who bash Lincoln, if you want to get that far into it.

101 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:15am

I hope Gutfeld really does carry through on this (although I suspect it's all bullshit), because he'll lose his shirt if he does. A gay bar for Muslims in lower Manhattan that doesn't serve alcohol. Sounds like a real winner.

102 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:28am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hear a few are still pissed off at Washington, Adams and Jefferson... and if you're pissed at them.. then no president is safe from that kind of attack.

103 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:30am

re: #81 reine.de.tout

If you want a bar inside a church, come to a Catholic Church ...
/

How's the wine?

104 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:36am

re: #78 garhighway

Does "criticism" = "bashing"?

If I say the tax cuts were bad policy, am I "Bush bashing"?

Just trying to understand the nomenclature.

There is a distinction.

Criticism falls under "blaming".

Bashing is the name calling (Chimpbushhitler...) and other unhinged behavior.

The President has engaged in blaming. This is horribly non-productive because it focuses on placing fault and neglects to own up to the bi-partisan problems that need fixing, not affixing to each others party.

105 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:39am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Geeze folks. They're still bashing FDR! Reagan, Wilson, Kennedy, Bush... et al.

Don't forget good ole Teddy! Glenn Beck had a field day with him.

Oh, and Lincoln here and there too.

106 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:18:50am

re: #95 garhighway

Says who? Anyone here?

Did I say that someone here said it??
AND ,, do you deny that if someone opposes current policy they haven't been told it's because of the Presidents skin color?

107 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:19:17am
108 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:19:41am

re: #76 reine.de.tout

Well, you've got a point!

Your post Page about the left and Obama inspired this page directly.

109 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:19:56am

re: #104 DaddyG

There is a distinction.

Criticism falls under "blaming".

Bashing is the name calling (Chimpbushhitler...) and other unhinged behavior.

The President has engaged in blaming. This is horribly non-productive because it focuses on placing fault and neglects to own up to the bi-partisan problems that need fixing, not affixing to each others party.

To be fair, the GOP hasn't exactly been the model party for this either.

110 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:19:59am

re: #99 Rightwingconspirator

You are right, it is at about ten years now.

Yep I remember anyone being against the wars in Iraq being called traitors by everyone from the media to the legislature. HAHA that was all an illusion. In reality, there was no "atmosphere" of Bush bashing for his first term. Do you people remember anything?

111 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:20:09am

re: #103 b_sharp

How's the wine?

Only served on Sundays

Monday nights (my churches mens club night) is where we serve the hard stuff!

112 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:20:16am

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

It just strikes me as somewhat analogous to a man burning his own money in the middle of the street to spite his neighbors. If I were the neighbor, I'd just be laughing at the moron who is burning his money.

I agree with Charles here: re: #101 Charles, in that it'd be pretty hilarious to watch the whole thing go up in a puff of entropy because of how ridiculous it is. That being said, it's a plain pigheaded homophobic idea in the first place.

113 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:20:17am

re: #103 b_sharp

How's the wine?

Cheap.

114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:20:24am

Gotta run... quick little funny thing... happened to me yesterday.

I was at a customer's house who was a double amputee (legs). Told me, "I got some shoes for sale."

Totally serious. I'm still laughing about it.

115 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:20:41am

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Cheap.

{hic}

116 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:21:11am

re: #101 Charles

I hope Gutfeld really does carry through on this (although I suspect it's all bullshit), because he'll lose his shirt if he does. A gay bar for Muslims in lower Manhattan that doesn't serve alcohol. Sounds like a real winner.

Of course it's BS .... he's not going to do this. He's trying to be funny. Some will think it IS funny, but I'm not one of them ...

117 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:21:12am

re: #77 Soap_Man

If Obama loses reelection, who wants to bet the new president will blame most of his/her problems on O?

I'm taking bets right now. I'm gonna be a rich man.

If he looses re-election it'll be to a Republican.

You'd have to go to Vegas to find a sucker who would bet against whatever person beats Obama blaming him for things being bad given that they all seem to be doing it now already....

118 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:21:39am

re: #115 sattv4u2

{hic}

LOL.
I don't take the wine, I'm sorry, I just do NOT want to drink after anyone else, I don't care how many times they wipe the cup. I wish they still just dipped the host in the wine, like they used to do.

119 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:22:02am

re: #81 reine.de.tout

If you want a bar inside a church, come to a Catholic Church ...
/

///This is the blood of Christ? Wow that guy must have been loaded 24/7!

120 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:22:33am

re: #86 sattv4u2

Not at all

But if I say I'm against HCR bill I'm a "racist" because it's Obamas bill

Yup,,, if Biden was President and offered the same bill I would be 100% for it ,, yup !

I see the farmers are moving last years round bales of straw into their yards. I'll ship you a few.

121 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:22:43am

re: #104 DaddyG

There is a distinction.

Criticism falls under "blaming".

Bashing is the name calling (Chimpbushhitler...) and other unhinged behavior.

The President has engaged in blaming. This is horribly non-productive because it focuses on placing fault and neglects to own up to the bi-partisan problems that need fixing, not affixing to each others party.

To me, it's non-productive unless it falls under the category of "setting the record straight". If, for example, someone wants to blame Obama for this recession, I think it is entirely appropriate and fair for him (or those on his behalf) to remind people of the timeline and causes of the recession. That further matters because if one doesn't understand the causes, they are likely to prescribe the wrong cure.

IMHO

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:22:59am

Ooh! Who sez you can't get no lovin' on LGF anymore if you're a conservative?

Does my Karma make me look fat?

123 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:23:05am

re: #90 subsailor68

Hi FBV! To be honest, at that age I'd hope I was in the seat next to you. No bedridden, lingering, painful, dehumanizing death for me thank you very much!

I want to die peacefully in my sleep like Grandpa.

Not screaming and begging for mercy like the passengers in his car.

124 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:24:32am

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gotta run... quick little funny thing... happened to me yesterday.

I was at a customer's house who was a double amputee (legs). Told me, "I got some shoes for sale."

Totally serious. I'm still laughing about it.

That's a good one!
I'm glad it lifted your spirits.

I've got a funny story too, a "tea party" story.

I got an automated phone call from the La tea party. I actually listened to the whole recording.

In it, they bashed a politician who I happen to have a great deal of respect for - solid and sane.

In the call, they finally got around to their main point - he is *shudder* a RINO!
EW! Yuck! Ptui!

I hung onto the line hoping that I would get real person at the end of the call, so I could tell them I am also *shudder* a RINO! Didn't happen. But I did get a good laugh.

125 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:24:32am

re: #101 Charles

Quick site question - how long does it take for the "Show Users" list to time people out if they don't manually log off? (just thought I'd ask, in case what I suspect may be a bug actually isn't...)

126 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:24:46am

re: #104 DaddyG

There is a distinction.

Criticism falls under "blaming".

Bashing is the name calling (Chimpbushhitler...) and other unhinged behavior.

The President has engaged in blaming. This is horribly non-productive because it focuses on placing fault and neglects to own up to the bi-partisan problems that need fixing, not affixing to each others party.

I don't t think it's not non-productive. Although the President (and other democrats) blame the Republicans in general, not just Bush, for wanting to pull the country back to Bush's old policies that won't work.

127 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:25:03am

re: #109 Soap_Man

To be fair, the GOP hasn't exactly been the model party for this either.

No they haven't. The congress has set their own multi-partisan low water mark.

128 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:25:18am

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ooh! Who sez you can't get no lovin' on LGF anymore if you're a conservative?

Does my Karma make me look fat?

Why it does indeed?
Hows about mine?

129 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:25:39am

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ooh! Who sez you can't get no lovin' on LGF anymore if you're a conservative?

Does my Karma make me look fat?

No, that would be the pie.

130 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:26:09am

re: #124 reine.de.tout

When I get an automated call from some political group I don't support, I don't hang up. I put the phone down and walk away. It ties their line up longer. They have a limited number of outgoing lines.

131 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:26:34am

re: #7 MJ

Andrew Sullivan likes the idea. He like it so much that he's having a "Name that Bar" contest:

Name That Bar!

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

They have a winner already, I won't spoil the surprise:

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

132 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:26:38am

Although I have found greg gutfeld to be amusing at times, I see no humor in any attempt to use muslim gay men as a punch line. In nearly every predominantly muslim country, gays are treated horribly. And for those fortunate enough to make it to more tolerant places, they deserve better than to be made into a punch line. greg needs to consider that.

133 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:26:42am

re: #93 Rightwingconspirator

My radio talks to me too. I tend to yell back. Heh.

Try pounding your head against the steering wheel at 110 kms/hr. It can be quite exciting. It also takes your mind of what the idiot on the radio said.

134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:27:01am

re: #128 reine.de.tout

Neener

135 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:27:20am

re: #121 garhighway

To me, it's non-productive unless it falls under the category of "setting the record straight".

Granted, but it always seems the reasons are the fault of the other guys...

136 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:27:29am

re: #106 sattv4u2

Did I say that someone here said it??


Of course not. But I am more interested in what responsible people say (and I use this board as a proxy for that) than I am what the nutters on both sides say.

AND ,, do you deny that if someone opposes current policy they haven't been told it's because of the Presidents skin color?

Every single time? I doubt it. Sometimes? Maybe, depending on what they said, how they said it and who they said it to.

As I noted above, trying to define what every single person in the world said or did is a little tough. Better to concentrate on the responsible middle and save the nutters for thread topics.

137 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:28:19am

re: #132 _RememberTonyC

Although I have found greg gutfeld to be amusing at times, I see no humor in any attempt to use muslim gay men as a punch line. In nearly every predominantly muslim country, gays are treated horribly. And for those fortunate enough to make it to more tolerant places, they deserve better than to be made into a punch line. greg needs to consider that.

you make hangings (Iran) and beheadings (SA) sound like they're being snubbed. They're killed, that's quite a step up from being "treated horribly".

138 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:29:04am

re: #131 RogueOne

They have a winner already, I won't spoil the surprise:

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

I hope you understand that Sullivan is mocking Gutfeld's idea, not agreeing with it.

139 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:29:11am

re: #130 Fozzie Bear

When I get an automated call from some political group I don't support, I don't hang up. I put the phone down and walk away. It ties their line up longer. They have a limited number of outgoing lines.

Our phone has been ringing off the hook lately with robo calls. I must get 3-5 a night. Most, however, disconnect once the recording comes on.

140 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:29:46am

re: #130 Fozzie Bear

When I get an automated call from some political group I don't support, I don't hang up. I put the phone down and walk away. It ties their line up longer. They have a limited number of outgoing lines.

I usually just hang up. But this particular one, I really did want to hear what they were going to say. The guy sounded so angry! There was no positive message for any particular candidate, just the negative one about this particular politician.

And I really did hope to get a real person at the end of the call. Rats.

141 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:30:17am

re: #137 RogueOne

you make hangings (Iran) and beheadings (SA) sound like they're being snubbed. They're killed, that's quite a step up from being "treated horribly".

youre right, but "treated horribly" covers a lot of things.

142 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:30:45am

re: #136 garhighway

[Link: leemarchetta.newsvine.com...]

143 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:31:17am

damn ,, staff meeting

bbiaw

144 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:31:19am

re: #138 Charles

I hope you understand that Sullivan is mocking Gutfeld's idea, not agreeing with it.

If this is a statement about how Islam treats homosexuality, I don't think he is. I was initially going off the assumption that Gutfeld is himself a homosexual but I can't seem to find any confirmation of that so I could have just jumped to conclusions from his writings in the past.

145 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:32:12am

re: #9 Charles

He wouldn't be on Fox News if he was a supporter of gay rights.

(Bill) O’Reilly has been a contrarian for years. While labeling himself a “traditionalist”—although never a ‘conservative’—and a “culture warrior,” he supports some gun-control restrictions as well as gay adoption and civil unions.

In a 2008 interview with Marvin Kalb on PBS, O’Reilly, who is hostile to the “progressive agenda,” took some decidedly progressive stands on same-sex unions and gay rights.

Asked by host Kalb “Should gays have rights?” the 6’4” Boston University graduate replied, “Sure. They are Americans.”

O’Reilly continued: “Do I care about this? Not really. I don’t care what Lenny and Squiggy do. They want to get married, let them get married. If you open it up for one group, you’ve got to open it up for all the groups. And they have done that in Holland, by the way.”

Pressed by Kalb, who asked “In terms of gays, you would have no problem with marriage?,” the Fox host answered “Personally? I don’t care.”
[Link: www.southfloridagaynews.com...]

146 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:32:33am

re: #144 RogueOne

Yep, that's what I thought. You don't get it.

147 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:33:11am

Do these fools understand that by pulling immature, in-your-face, taunting stunts with moderate American Muslims they are providing a treasure trove of propaganda to the exremists who make their living off of charactures of the corrupt and decadent westerners?!

148 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:33:15am

re: #145 captdiggs

(Bill) O’Reilly has been a contrarian for years. While labeling himself a “traditionalist”—although never a ‘conservative’—and a “culture warrior,” he supports some gun-control restrictions as well as gay adoption and civil unions.

In a 2008 interview with Marvin Kalb on PBS, O’Reilly, who is hostile to the “progressive agenda,” took some decidedly progressive stands on same-sex unions and gay rights.

Asked by host Kalb “Should gays have rights?” the 6’4” Boston University graduate replied, “Sure. They are Americans.”

O’Reilly continued: “Do I care about this? Not really. I don’t care what Lenny and Squiggy do. They want to get married, let them get married. If you open it up for one group, you’ve got to open it up for all the groups. And they have done that in Holland, by the way.”

Pressed by Kalb, who asked “In terms of gays, you would have no problem with marriage?,” the Fox host answered “Personally? I don’t care.”
[Link: www.southfloridagaynews.com...]

Yup, heard him say the exact same thing on Leno a few weeks back.

149 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:34:01am

re: #146 Charles

Yep, that's what I thought. You don't get it.

Ask him for his serious view, he would never respond to a nobody like me but he would for you.

150 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:34:26am

re: #145 captdiggs
Lenny and Squiggy are gay?! Next thing you know Bert and Ernie will come out of the closet. //

151 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:35:18am

Things are getting really strange.

Fischer: "No More Mosques, Period"

The AFA 's Bryan Fischer was hating Muslims long before it was the cool conservative thing to do and has been calling for their mass deportation from the US for some time now.

So it was no surprise when he weighed in against the "Ground Zero Mosque" by calling for the blacklisting of any company that dares to work on its construction.

But of course that is not enough to Fischer, so he is now demanding an end to the construction of any mosque anywhere in America:

Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero. This is for one simple reason: each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.

Each one is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center, and determined to implement the “Grand Jihad” ...

Because of this subversive ideology, Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment. They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether. There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Islam, and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

...

American Muslims are being radicalized every single day in American mosques. We are sowing the seeds of our own destruction by allowing these improvised explosive devices to be established in community after community.

If a mosque was willing to publicly renounce the Koran and its 109 verses that call for the death of infidels, renounce Allah and his messenger Mohammed, publicly condemn Osama bin Laden, Hamas, and Abdelbaset al Megrahi (the Lockerbie bomber), maybe then they could be allowed to build their buildings. But then they wouldn’t be Muslims at that point, now would they?

152 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:35:46am

re: #147 DaddyG

Do these fools understand that by pulling immature, in-your-face, taunting stunts with moderate American Muslims they are providing a treasure trove of propaganda to the exremists who make their living off of charactures of the corrupt and decadent westerners?!

It warms my heart to see conservatives beginning to make arguments the progressive community has been making for years.

153 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:35:47am

re: #133 b_sharp

Try pounding your head against the steering wheel at 110 kms/hr. It can be quite exciting. It also takes your mind of what the idiot on the radio said.

I'd need stitches. Or maybe a soft cover for my steering wheel. :)

154 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:35:53am

re: #145 captdiggs

Also, isn't it a bit odd that the author of that story felt the need to include O'Reilly's height?

He's for gay rights, and he's tall!

155 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:36:10am

re: #128 reine.de.tout

Why it does indeed?
Hows about mine?

Yours is gorgeous.

156 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:36:17am

re: #151 Gus 802

Bryan Fischer is the fundamentalist freak who always takes the latest bigotry a couple of steps farther than anyone else.

157 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:37:08am

Gov. Paterson steps in....

He's now offering to help the Cordoba Initiative relocate if they so choose.

New York Gov. David Paterson is offering state help if the developers of a proposed mosque near ground zero agree to move the project farther from the site of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Paterson said Tuesday that he understands the resentment many feel against the plan for an Islamic cultural center a few blocks from ground zero.

The Democrat says that although the project is protected by the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom, New York is still suffering from the attacks. He says some state property elsewhere might be suitable.

How nice of Paterson (the lame duck governor) to offer something that is not needed or warranted.

I can't wait for Paterson to be gone from office.

158 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:37:09am

re: #149 RogueOne

Ask him for his serious view, he would never respond to a nobody like me but he would for you.

I don't need to ask - his meaning is perfectly clear to me.

159 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:39:05am

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

It warms my heart to see conservatives beginning to make arguments the progressive community has been making for years.


Clean up Hollywood and I'll be impressed. ;-p

160 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:39:12am

re: #156 Charles

Bryan Fischer is the fundamentalist freak who always takes the latest bigotry a couple of steps farther than anyone else.

Yep. He also writes for the Teabagger site RenewAmerica.

161 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:39:12am

re: #157 lawhawk

Gov. Paterson steps in...

He's now offering to help the Cordoba Initiative relocate if they so choose.

How nice of Paterson (the lame duck governor) to offer something that is not needed or warranted.

I can't wait for Paterson to be gone from office.

Isn't Paterson a Democrat?

162 uncah91  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:39:22am

For those who claim Bush wasn't "bashed" for 8 years, you are forgetting the manner in which he won the election. That led to bitter feelings for Dems and everyone on the "left. He was pretty well getting it from day one.

Then 9/11 gave him a long period of country unity, roughly until he started building up to the war in Iraq.

163 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:41:08am

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

Yes.

164 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:41:23am

re: #157 lawhawk
Wow. I liked Bloombergs stance a lot better. Call me a traditionalist but the 1st Amendment deserves a nod in this case.

165 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:41:33am

re: #66 Charles

Please note -- this has absolutely nothing to do with a valid criticism of homophobia in Islam. That's very obviously not the intent of this stupid stunt.

And also has absolutely nothing to do with poking fun at the ban on alcoholism in Islam?

166 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:42:38am

I look forward to a day when any mention of religion, in any form, in any political discussion causes all parties watching to immediately tune out so they don't have to hear the absurd drivel that inevitably follows.

As a culture we waste WAY too much time and energy discussing the tooth fairy.

167 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:42:38am

re: #142 sattv4u2

[Link: leemarchetta.newsvine.com...]

For what it is worth, in my experience most racist talk goes by without being commented on. How many times have you been around someone who told a racist joke or made a racist remark and it was simply laughed off? Where I come from (the Midwest) that is pretty common.

Those whose opposition to Obama's policies have generated such accusations might want to re-examine how they expressed that opposition. Was there a "go back to Africa" component? Were dog whistles employed?

I have not seen or heard such accusations in conversations that were clearly about policy. But that's just me. Your experience may have been different.

168 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:42:43am

re: #165 Spare O'Lake

And also has absolutely nothing to do with poking fun at the ban on alcoholism in Islam?


I guess a White House beer summit with the Imam and the protesters is a bad idea then? //

169 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:43:14am

re: #162 uncah91

For those who claim Bush wasn't "bashed" for 8 years, you are forgetting the manner in which he won the election.

Yes, Michael Moore and other dishonest idiots still cling to the stolen election crap. It's been a decade and lefties still can't be bothered to look up the supreme court's ruling.

170 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:43:17am

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

It warms my heart to see conservatives beginning to make arguments the progressive community has been making for years.

a good idea is a good idea. at least in the eyes of those who try not to politicize everything.

171 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:44:04am

re: #164 DaddyG

And the NYS Constitution.

The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed in this state to all humankind; and no person shall be rendered incompetent to be a witness on account of his or her opinions on matters of religious belief; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this state. (Amended by vote of the people November 6, 2001.)
172 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:44:24am

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

Isn't Paterson a Democrat?

Patterson is living proof that stupitity and craveness is not restricted to GOP politicians. For that matter, Chuck Schumer and Anthony Wiener are staying mighty quiet about this whole deal, so they get credit for being craven as well.

173 Racer X  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:44:58am

I'm thinking the absolute best thing America could do is welcome the mosque. Every New Yorker should go visit. Regularly. Make friends with those who worship there. In a matter of years those muslims will be acclimated into Western society. They will embrace Western ways (just like everyone does), and enjoy the freedom America has to offer.

Win.

174 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:45:59am

re: #165 Spare O'Lake

And also has absolutely nothing to do with poking fun at the ban on alcoholism in Islam?

It has to do with trying to humiliate the Muslim backers of the community centre by 'dropping a spider into their cleavage'.

175 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:46:00am

re: #172 Surabaya Stew

Patterson is living proof that stupitity and craveness is not restricted to GOP politicians. For that matter, Chuck Schumer and Anthony Wiener are staying mighty quiet about this whole deal, so they get credit for being craven as well.

I never asked or suggested that Patterson was stupid, or Schumer or Wiener. I asked it Patterson was a Democrat. I figured I could get a straight answer quickly from this thread.

176 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:47:31am

re: #172 Surabaya Stew

Not true. Weiner has supported Bloomberg's stance.

Schumer's position is indeed craven - he's deflected attention on the issue and his office has refused to issue a position supporting the right to build there.

177 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:48:26am

Interesting piece on Rifka Bary, This is sad.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

178 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:48:30am

re: #173 Racer X

I'm thinking the absolute best thing America could do is welcome the mosque. Every New Yorker should go visit. Regularly. Make friends with those who worship there. In a matter of years those muslims will be acclimated into Western society. They will embrace Western ways (just like everyone does), and enjoy the freedom America has to offer.

Win.

Yeah. Let's liberate Iraq and Afghanistan; the people will be so thankful and slowly open their hearts to Western culture. Meanwhile, we'll be complete dicks to them here in the US. That's the second part of the "win friends" strategy, executed in parallel.

179 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:48:38am

I see that Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty has weighed in yet again with his bigotry.

From Politico's Ben Smith: Islam and 2012

Pawlenty’s spokesman Bruce Gordon said there’s “no misunderstanding” over the governor’s comments, which suggested building a mosque near the site of the World Trade Center attacks was unpatriotic.

The governor's message is clear: New York is a big place. Find a different location for the mosque,” Gordon said in an email

Pawlenty told Scott Conroy last week that he opposes the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero because, "We shouldn't have images or activities that degrade or disrespect that in any way."

.

One thing that is a bit unexpected is the sheer venom that constitutes the comments section. Politico readers are usually better than the crap they're polluting this story's comments with.

180 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:48:50am

re: #168 DaddyG

I guess a White House beer summit with the Imam and the protesters is a bad idea then? //

If one must choose either to laugh or cry, one should generally try to choose laughter.

181 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:50:05am

re: #174 b_sharp

It has to do with trying to humiliate the Muslim backers of the community centre by 'dropping a spider into their cleavage'.

That is a very creepy comment.

182 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:50:43am

re: #166 Fozzie Bear

I look forward to a day when any mention of religion, in any form, in any political discussion causes all parties watching to immediately tune out so they don't have to hear the absurd drivel that inevitably follows.

As a culture we waste WAY too much time and energy discussing the tooth fairy.

Religion and faith will always be a part of the discourse. What we need to guard against is a state sponsored religion (or creed) dicating what the discourse is. That includes atheism.

183 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:55:14am

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

I never asked or suggested that Patterson was stupid, or Schumer or Wiener. I asked it Patterson was a Democrat. I figured I could get a straight answer quickly from this thread.

He's a Donk. In both meanings of the word.


re: #176 lawhawk

Not true. Weiner has supported Bloomberg's stance.

Schumer's position is indeed craven - he's deflected attention on the issue and his office has refused to issue a position supporting the right to build there.

Didn't know that about Wiener, that's goods to hear. Schumer is usually so eager to talk; his silence here is telling about his character.

184 Racer X  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:55:20am

re: #178 cliffster

Yeah. Let's liberate Iraq and Afghanistan; the people will be so thankful and slowly open their hearts to Western culture. Meanwhile, we'll be complete dicks to them here in the US. That's the second part of the "win friends" strategy, executed in parallel.

Mind-bending.

185 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:55:57am

re: #182 DaddyG

Religion and faith will always be a part of the discourse. What we need to guard against is a state sponsored religion (or creed) dicating what the discourse is. That includes atheism.

Atheism is neither a religion nor a creed. It is in the best position to guarantee no religion has precedence over any other.

186 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:56:25am

So. Putting up a gay bar to offend the violators of "sacred ground." This whole anti-mosque movement is a fucking joke.

187 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:56:52am

re: #174 b_sharp

It has to do with trying to humiliate the Muslim backers of the community centre by 'dropping a spider into their cleavage'.


Interesting, as the same has been effectively said about the choosing of that location for the Islamic center/mosque.

188 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:57:13am

re: #182 DaddyG

Religion and faith will always be a part of the discourse. What we need to guard against is a state sponsored religion (or creed) dicating what the discourse is. That includes atheism.

Atheism isn't a religion or creed. It's the lack of it.

189 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:58:40am

re: #186 JasonA

So. Putting up a gay bar to offend the violators of "sacred ground." This whole anti-mosque movement is a fucking joke.

You have a way with words . . .

Any attempt to deliberately provoke or offend anyone is childish beyond belief, IMO.
And as you say - the idea of putting up non-sacred venue on "sacred" ground to offend the "violators" of said sacred ground is just a tad rich.

190 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:59:36am

"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."

Remarks by President George W. Bush in a statement to reporters during a meeting with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan
The Oval Office, Washington, DC
November 13, 2002

191 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:00:16am

"America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."

President George W. Bush Promotes Compassionate Conservatism
Parkside Hall, San Jose, California
April 30, 2002

192 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:01:31am

re: #189 reine.de.tout

You have a way with words . . .

Any attempt to deliberately provoke or offend anyone is childish beyond belief, IMO.
And as you say - the idea of putting up non-sacred venue on "sacred" ground to offend the "violators" of said sacred ground is just a tad rich.

Well, according to the opposition, the whole point of Park 51 is to provoke and offend. I don't buy that argument in the first place, but even if I did I would still think this tactic to be ridiculous. It's just a really big "fuck you" to all Muslim Americans, as I see it.

193 Max  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:01:36am

This asshole is going off on the assumption that all Muslims are homophobes.

Cynicism. Just plain cynicism.

194 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:02:16am

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

Atheism isn't a religion or creed. It's the lack of it.

Use whatever descriptor you want to describe Atheism but the first Amendment insures "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Substituting disdain for specific religions with disdain for religions is not my idea of enlightenment.

195 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:03:04am

re: #193 Max D. Reinhardt

This asshole is going off on the assumption that all Muslims are homophobes.

Cynicism. Just plain cynicism.

I wonder if anyone told these idiots that observant Muslims, even the gay ones, don't drink? Or is that covered in the article and I didn't notice it?

196 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:03:39am

re: #177 Thanos

Interesting piece on Rifka Bary, This is sad.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

Very sad.
I found a link to and read about the "Christian" organization Rifqa Bary got involved with. They seemed more like a weird cult to me than a real church. Or let me say it this way to keep the jackals off my hide - this particular denomination is not my flavor of Christianity - very controlling, heavy on the feel-good, short on spiritual reflection.

197 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:03:46am

re: #187 captdiggs

Interesting, as the same has been effectively said about the choosing of that location for the Islamic center/mosque.

The motivation behind the placement of the Mosque, despite its use for a while as a site of prayer, is supposition.

The motivation at the heart of this thread is blatant and 'in your face' aggressive.

198 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:04:44am

re: #192 JasonA

Well, according to the opposition, the whole point of Park 51 is to provoke and offend. I don't buy that argument in the first place, but even if I did I would still think this tactic to be ridiculous. It's just a really big "fuck you" to all Muslim Americans, as I see it.

Agreed.

199 avanti  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:04:52am

The truth about the Michelle's Spain trip is coming out:

First lady went to Spain to spend time with grieving friend

"First Lady Michelle Obama took a lot of grief for her decision to vacation in Spain last week, a glitzy getaway that prompted one New York Daily News columnist to liken her to Marie Antoinette. But now we're learning more about the trip, which, despite the furor over its alleged excess, seems to have been launched with good intentions.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times' Lynn Sweet, the first lady made the trip because she wanted to spend time with her best friend, Chicago physician Anita Blanchard, who lost her father this summer. Blanchard (who is married to President Obama's best friend, Marty Nesbitt) planned a Spanish vacation with her daughter and invited the first lady and her daughters to come along. Michelle, who missed Blanchard's father's funeral in July, agreed and brought along her 9-year-old daughter, Sasha. The first couple's older daughter, Malia, is away at camp.

According to Sweet, one other mutual friend came along with her own two daughters. And according to the White House, all parties paid for their own hotel rooms and personal expenses.

Speaking of the hotel: As The Upshot speculated last week, it was the Secret Service that booked the Obama group's rooms at the luxury Hotel Villa Padierna, in part because agents could guard the perimeter of the property much better than they could at rival facilities.

Spain.

Look for corrections about the 40 friends, the spending, and choice of resort on the critical blogs/

200 Firstinla  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:06:19am

I suspect the shrieking harpy Geller must be mighty proud of the role she's played in creating this mess regarding the Cordoba Institute. It shows just how influential the wingnuts can be in driving public discourse.

201 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:06:25am

re: #199 avanti

Her biggest crime was having some fun on this trip. And looking good while doing it. Guess she should have worn a burqa.

/

202 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:06:38am

I feel likere: #194 DaddyG

Use whatever descriptor you want to describe Atheism but the first Amendment insures "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Substituting disdain for specific religions with disdain for religions is not my idea of enlightenment.

... and your point is?

203 BishopX  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:06:46am

re: #185 b_sharp

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

204 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:06:56am

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Very sad.
I found a link to and read about the "Christian" organization Rifqa Bary got involved with. They seemed more like a weird cult to me than a real church. Or let me say it this way to keep the jackals off my hide - this particular denomination is not my flavor of Christianity - very controlling, heavy on the feel-good, short on spiritual reflection.

I agree. The preacher seems predatory. Tearing a child from their parents seems contrary to more fundamental principles of family and faith in my opinion.

205 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:07:32am

re: #193 Max D. Reinhardt

This asshole is going off on the assumption that all Muslims are homophobes.

Cynicism. Just plain cynicism.

That's what he's counting on, and he's hoping for anti-Muslim or anti-gay violence to occur so his fantasies of seeing harm come to members of one (or both) of these groups will be fulfilled.

206 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:07:43am

re: #196 reine.de.tout

They are in that same group that wears "Islam is the Devil" shirts -- Dove World Outreach, favorite church of the Shrieking harpy and Robert Spencer.

207 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:07:49am

re: #178 cliffster

Yeah. Let's liberate Iraq and Afghanistan; the people will be so thankful and slowly open their hearts to Western culture. Meanwhile, we'll be complete dicks to them here in the US. That's the second part of the "win friends" strategy, executed in parallel.

our relationship with the muslim world will always be complicated. on the one hand, we have done things to try and benefit people in muslim countries. but sometimes what we see as clearly good deeds are seen differently by those in some of those countries. there is distrust on both sides. and there is no doubt that the behavior of the NYC mosque opponents is making us more enemies in the muslim world. and no matter what good deeds we try to do, our suppport for Israel will always be held against us in the muslim world. so while it's good that we try to do some good things, it is doubtful that we will ever be loved in the muslim world unless we abandon our support for the Jewish state.

208 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:08:41am

re: #203 BishopX

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

No. Just no. Very few atheists "believe" that there is no god. We just do not see the evidence that such exists.

209 avanti  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:09:41am

re: #201 JasonA

Her biggest crime was having some fun on this trip. And looking good while doing it. Guess she should have worn a burqa.

/

I would think her being invited by a freind,and the Secret Service picking the resort might defuse some of the outrage about the choice of the venue, but I suspect it won't.

210 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:10:29am

re: #203 BishopX

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

That is an absurd argument. Not believing something != belief.

211 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:10:58am

re: #202 Fozzie Bear

I feel like


... and your point is?

In response to this comment...

re: #166 Fozzie Bear

I look forward to a day when any mention of religion, in any form, in any political discussion causes all parties watching to immediately tune out so they don't have to hear the absurd drivel that inevitably follows.

As a culture we waste WAY too much time and energy discussing the tooth fairy.

I understand the counterpoint to the American Taliban and so-con movement but your comments seemed hostile to all discussion of matters of faith to me.

212 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:11:10am

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

Atheism isn't a religion or creed. It's the lack of it.

No, atheism is an actual belief in a negative.

213 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:11:42am

re: #211 DaddyG

I understand the counterpoint to the American Taliban and so-con movement but your comments seemed hostile to all discussion of matters of faith to me.

To all public political discussion of faith, yes, I am hostile.

214 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:11:59am

re: #197 b_sharp

The motivation behind the placement of the Mosque, despite its use for a while as a site of prayer, is supposition.

The motivation at the heart of this thread is blatant and 'in your face' aggressive.

Yes, guessing at motives is supposition.
But that cuts both ways.

215 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:12:09am

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

No, atheism is an actual belief in a negative.

No, it isn't.

216 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:12:59am

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

No, atheism is an actual belief in a negative.

You need to learn more about atheism. You could not be more wrong, Spare.

217 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:14:05am

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

re: #215 Fozzie Bear

re: #216 JasonA

Let's call the whole thing atheism.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

218 Jack Burton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:14:32am

re: #215 Fozzie Bear

No, it isn't.

If I had a dime for every time a thread was derailed by this particular "unstoppable force hitting an immovable object" argument, I could pay off the national debt.

219 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:15:53am

re: #203 BishopX

Naw, it's just not believing.

220 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:15:55am

re: #218 ArchangelMichael

If I had a dime for every time a thread was derailed by this particular "unstoppable force hitting an immovable object" argument, I could pay off the national debt.

I'd just keep it. I'm not a very good Socialist :)

221 abbyadams  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:16:26am

re: #199 avanti

I would think the book sales would have about taken any Obamas' tab off the taxpayers. Maybe we should tax the wealthy more heavily. Oh, wait...

222 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:16:31am

re: #213 Fozzie Bear

To all public political discussion of faith, yes, I am hostile.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

223 abolitionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:17:48am

re: #147 DaddyG

Do these fools understand that by pulling immature, in-your-face, taunting stunts with moderate American Muslims they are providing a treasure trove of propaganda to the exremists who make their living off of charactures of the corrupt and decadent westerners?!

Sayyid Qutb got plenty of propaganda mileage out sock hops and drive-inns, and "animal-like" mixing of the sexes (which "went on even in churches").

224 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:18:27am

For the record I have no interest in defining what an Atheist believes or whether his belief is a religion or not. I do however expect civility and respect for my beleifs in return.

225 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:18:58am

re: #222 DaddyG

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Do I look like Thomas Jefferson?

226 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:19:26am

re: #203 BishopX

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

Atheists also believe there is no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy and no giant invisible tea pot orbiting the Earth.

Most of us base our conclusions on probability, we do not expect 100% proof before we can conclude the truth value of an observation is positive. We may not be able to test for the existence of a god, but we can test the physical basis for the evidence some give for the existence if a god.

Just as we can conclude there is no such thing as a unicorn, or Zeus or even magic because of the limits imposed by physical reality, we can apply those same tests to the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god.

227 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:20:10am

re: #204 DaddyG

I agree. The preacher seems predatory. Tearing a child from their parents seems contrary to more fundamental principles of family and faith in my opinion.

Exactly.

228 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:20:30am

re: #225 Fozzie Bear

Do I look like Thomas Jefferson?


You are created have evolved in the same image. ;-)

229 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:21:06am

re: #215 Fozzie Bear

Any real atheist will tell you that he/she believes that God does not exist.
If they hedge on that then they are not an atheist, they are an agnostic.

230 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:21:51am

re: #226 b_sharp

Atheists also believe there is no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy and no giant invisible tea pot orbiting the Earth.

. . . .

I'm a Christian, and honestly, we also know there is no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy, no Easter Bunny. Really. We know that.

231 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:22:39am

re: #229 Spare O'Lake

Any "real" atheist?

232 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:22:50am

re: #224 DaddyG

For the record I have no interest in defining what an Atheist believes or whether his belief is a religion or not. I do however expect civility and respect for my beleifs in return.

Agreed.
You're on a roll here, today.

233 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:23:29am

re: #229 Spare O'Lake

Any real atheist will tell you that he/she believes that God does not exist.
If they hedge on that then they are not an atheist, they are an agnostic.

Are you being intentionally dense? Read post #226.

234 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:24:04am

re: #231 Nimed

Any "real" atheist?

Yup, those are the tough atheists with balls of steel.

235 Jack Burton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:24:17am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian, and honestly, we also know there is no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy, no Easter Bunny. Really. We know that.

Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and Easter Bunny are also defined enough for evidence of their existence to be recognizable. A generic omni3 deity not as described by any specific religion... not so much.

236 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:24:43am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian, and honestly, we also know there is no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy, no Easter Bunny. Really. We know that.

How?

237 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:24:56am

BBL

238 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:25:02am

re: #233 Fozzie Bear

Are you being intentionally dense? Read post #226.

Can the personal insults, dweeb.

239 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:25:52am

re: #226 b_sharp

...no giant invisible tea pot orbiting the Earth.

There goes my faith. dang. /

240 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:26:00am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian, and honestly, we also know there is no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy, no Easter Bunny. Really. We know that.

It is no more possible to know these things than it is to know of the truth of the existence or nonexistence of god. Belief in such requires faith.

As an atheist, I have none of that kind of faith.

241 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:26:20am

re: #238 Spare O'Lake

Can the personal insults, dweeb.

I don't attempt to tell you what you believe, do I?

242 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:26:45am

re: #239 DaddyG

There goes my faith. dang. /

ROFL.
You are really on a roll.

243 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:26:55am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

I'm a Christian, and honestly, we also know there is no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy, no Easter Bunny. Really. We know that.

re: #236 b_sharp

How?

I never got my Weenie Whistle for Christmas. /

244 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:06am

re: #236 b_sharp

How?

'cause my mom explained it to me when I was 6.

The question is really, how can you believe in God and not believe the other things?
I can't explain it. If you haven't felt it, there is no way I can explain it.
But I do believe.

245 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:12am

re: #234 Spare O'Lake

Yup, those are the tough atheists with balls of steel.

Oh, the Chuck Norris atheists.

246 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:16am

re: #243 DaddyG

I never got my Weenie Whistle for Christmas. /

I hear they want to put a bar near Park 51 that can help you with that...

247 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:29am

If you've ever watched Gutfled's late night show "Red Eye", you know he's too dumb to have come up with this idea on his own. His very close friend and "brilliant provocateur" Andrew Breitbart probably fed it to him.

248 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:56am

re: #240 Fozzie Bear

It is no more possible to know these things than it is to know of the truth of the existence or nonexistence of god. Belief in such requires faith.

As an atheist, I have none of that kind of faith.

Oh, it is too!
Good grief.

249 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:29:02am

re: #246 JasonA

I hear they want to put a bar near Park 51 that can help you with that...


Ouch. I stepped right into that one. Score one for Jason.

250 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:29:20am

re: #244 reine.de.tout

'cause my mom explained it to me when I was 6.

The question is really, how can you believe in God and not believe the other things?
I can't explain it. If you haven't felt it, there is no way I can explain it.
But I do believe.

Hence, faith.

Atheists lack it. We don't believe in anything supernatural. That's not a belief, it's a lack of one.

251 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:29:46am

re: #203 BishopX

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

No. I can't speak for all atheists but I don't wake up in the morning thinking about my atheism. I don't look at causality or other things in life and think about "no god" while contemplating it. My atheism is rather passive in that once I accepted my own atheism I moved on.

252 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:30:14am

re: #235 ArchangelMichael

Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and Easter Bunny are also defined enough for evidence of their existence to be recognizable. A generic omni3 deity not as described by any specific religion... not so much.

This is all beyond my ability to understand. Well, actually, it probably isn't, but I don't really care to get into a serious discussion.

253 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:30:18am

re: #248 reine.de.tout

Oh, it is too!
Good grief.

Prove that you have faith.

You can't? Of course not. That's the point.

254 Jack Burton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:31:17am

re: #240 Fozzie Bear

As an atheist, I have none of that kind of faith.

Not quite sure what word could be used to describe someone who thinks/believes/whatever that the universe self-created or always existed vs someone who thinks there was a guiding intelligence/plan/whatever (even if it no longer exists but at one time did).

IMO both of these "beliefs" are equal on the "extraordinary claims" scale and only agnosticism about the whole 9 yards qualifies as being without... whatever that word is.

255 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:31:40am

re: #253 Fozzie Bear

Prove that you have faith.

You can't? Of course not. That's the point.

Prove that I have faith?
It must be very difficult living a life where you cannot believe what people tell you.
I tell you I have faith, you refuse to believe it unless I "prove" it?
Not interested in this discussion.

256 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:32:00am

re: #251 Gus 802

No. I can't speak for all atheists but I don't wake up in the morning thinking about my atheism. I don't look at causality or other things in life and think about "no god" while contemplating it. My atheism is rather passive in that once I accepted my own atheism I moved on.

Seriously. It's not something that we dedicate a lot of time or thought to. We've been presented with what others believe to be evidence for their particular faith, evaluated it, and moved on.

257 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:32:22am

re: #254 ArchangelMichael

Not quite sure what word could be used to describe someone who thinks/believes/whatever that the universe self-created or always existed vs someone who thinks there was a guiding intelligence/plan/whatever (even if it no longer exists but at one time did).

IMO both of these "beliefs" are equal on the "extraordinary claims" scale and only agnosticism about the whole 9 yards qualifies as being without... whatever that word is.

A lack of a claim at all is not an extraordinary claim. I am amazed at how many people don't get this. It's incredibly obvious, and simple.

258 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:32:59am

re: #255 reine.de.tout

Prove that I have faith?
It must be very difficult living a life where you cannot believe what people tell you.
I tell you I have faith, you refuse to believe it unless I "prove" it?
Not interested in this discussion.

I was never questioning your faith, reine. I was pointing out that it is impossible to prove.

259 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:34:03am

It is possible to know of the existence of things beyond your own capacity to feel, see, touch, taste, measure, extrapolate, etc.

and those things can be real.

I do not put much stock in anyone who cannot believe in a universe bigger than their grey matter (and by extension their scientific tools) can comprehend. This doubt is not only placed in the scientific but also the religionists that cannot conceive of a God beyond what their preacher or holy writ describes.

In short if anyone thinks they know it all they kid themselves.

And on that note I'll flounce on off to the next thread.

260 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:36:18am

re: #255 reine.de.tout

Prove that I have faith?
It must be very difficult living a life where you cannot believe what people tell you.
I tell you I have faith, you refuse to believe it unless I "prove" it?
Not interested in this discussion.

I think "faith" is not the best choice of words. I feel the presence of God. I can't put it in the context of the five senses that we use to describe physical phenomena. "Faith" is frequently used to describe believing something even though there's no reason to believe it. I have plenty of reason because like I said, I sense it. It's just not something you can squeeze into the traditional description.

261 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:37:04am

A: "So, do you believe in God?"
B: "No."
A: "Ah, so you believe there is no God?"
B: "No."
A: "That's impossible! Either you believe in God or you don't."
B: "Exactly."
A: ... "huh?"

262 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:38:22am

re: #203 BishopX

Atheism is a religion. It relies on the belief that there isn't a god just as much as Christianity relies on the father, the son and the holy ghost.

This is the old "absence of evidence for the positive does not prove the negative" thing. People seem to have trouble with this for some reason.

I suppose you're right in a strictly definitional sense. But nearly all modern religions have things atheists don't: clergy, houses of worship, religious texts believed to be divine, doctrine, heaven/hell as reward/punishment, etc.

263 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:38:30am

re: #261 Fozzie Bear

A: "So, do you believe in God?"
B: "No."
A: "Ah, so you believe there is no God?"
B: "No."
A: "That's impossible! Either you believe in God or you don't."
B: "Exactly."
A: ... "huh?"

How's your quitting been going, by the way?

264 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:38:34am

Atheism is not a "religion," and I've never understood why it's so important to some religious people to insist that it is.

265 Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:39:27am

As of 15-20 minutes ago the latest Anchorage newspaper update on Stevens indicates there still is no official word about his being killed in the crash.

266 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:43:13am

Does Gutfeld shop at Target?

267 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:43:43am

re: #263 JasonA

How's your quitting been going, by the way?

I have had 3 cigarettes in the past week. While that isn't successful quitting in the fullest sense of the word, it is a far cry from being a full-on smoker.

The problem is so many of my friends are smokers, and I'm not going to sever ties to quit. I also wouldn't expect my friends to become non-smokers in my presence. So, I have an occasional cigarette, one every couple of days.

In the past I have tried the "I'm never, ever having a cigarette again" approach, and it just makes me want one even more. Better to just say to myself "I'm not a smoker". Somehow, that works better for me, for some psychological reason I don't fully understand.

268 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:45:09am

Ugh, I've been having internet connection issues all week, so if I suddenly disappear...

Let this jerk go ahead with his “brilliant provocation”.

I wonder how many gay Muslims would be willing to go to a bar next to an Islamic center? Especially when they know the express purpose of the place is to use it as a tool to try to provoke other Muslims AND it's being financed by people who would otherwise regard them with utter contempt.

I'm sure investors will be jumping at the chance to sink their money into an expensive venture that is almost guaranteed to fail miserably.

269 Jack Burton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:11am

re: #257 Fozzie Bear

A lack of a claim at all is not an extraordinary claim. I am amazed at how many people don't get this. It's incredibly obvious, and simple.

I'll put it this way. I could never, in good conscious, claim to be an atheist based on the "I see no evidence" argument. Reason being, I don't know what form such evidence would take and it's probably beyond my intellectual capacity as a member of H. sapiens to know it anyway. It could very well be possible that evidence of the existence of a deity-type-thing is in your face 24/7/365... how would you know? If you don't know what it is, you can't claim to not see it.

My version of trying to not be bothered too much by any of this and deal with things I can know I call agnosticism and not atheism. I'm not trying to make the "atheism is a religion" argument with this either because thats silly, so please don't lump me in that category.

270 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:33am

re: #229 Spare O'Lake

Any real atheist will tell you that he/she believes that God does not exist.
If they hedge on that then they are not an atheist, they are an agnostic.

An agnostic is an atheist who is afraid to take a stand.

271 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:58am

re: #267 Fozzie Bear

Good for you. As long as you're on the right track. I picked up an e-cig on Sunday morning and haven't touched a real one since.

272 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:49:22am

re: #271 JasonA

Good for you. As long as you're on the right track. I picked up an e-cig on Sunday morning and haven't touched a real one since.

Good for you!!

273 RogueOne  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:50:35am

re: #267 Fozzie Bear

I'm on day 21 without a cigarette and I still hate it. Non-smokers are boring.

274 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:50am

re: #273 RogueOne

I'm on day 21 without a cigarette and I still hate it. Non-smokers are boring.

You'll get there. Good Luck!!!

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:53:09am

re: #6 Rightwingconspirator

Gays can have their bars where the rest of us can have bars. Next to a church or Mosque or school? No. Not just no, but in fact Hell No. And located as a deliberate provocation? Let them serve lemonade. No booze.

There's a strip club across the street. Now a gay bar would be inappropriate?

What kind of neighborhood do you think this is?

276 Jack Burton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:55:29am

re: #264 Charles

Atheism is not a "religion," and I've never understood why it's so important to some religious people to insist that it is.

So they can claim that attempts to make the government/law/public square in general irreligious or religion-neutral in the US, are actually promoting atheism as an official state religion, in violation of the First Amendment (in their minds). It's another stupid losing tactic that only sounds rational to the same crowd who thinks the country is a "Christian Nation" and the 1st Am. does not say what it says.

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:34am

re: #25 Big Steve

Gee why not a dog track next to the Mosque...or maybe bacon burger place.

These are Manhattan Muslims. I think they're used to a lot of haram stuff being around, and you know what? They just keep going. Same as the Jews do.

278 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:52am

re: #273 RogueOne

I'm on day 21 without a cigarette and I still hate it. Non-smokers are boring.

But they live longer!

I'm right there with you man. I have strong cravings for a cigarette about 153 times a day.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:57:28am

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

This makes no sense. Honestly, I don't get it. Why is this offensive?

Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

Evidently.

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:58:28am

re: #47 Big Steve

"For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

More homophobic than Jews or Christians? We have some scripture too.

281 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:59:06am

re: #276 ArchangelMichael

So they can claim that attempts to make the government/law/public square in general irreligious or religion-neutral in the US, are actually promoting atheism as an official state religion, in violation of the First Amendment (in their minds). It's another stupid losing tactic that only sounds rational to the same crowd who thinks the country is a "Christian Nation" and the 1st Am. does not say what it says.

EXACTLY. A perfect example exists in this thread.

re: #182 DaddyG

Religion and faith will always be a part of the discourse. What we need to guard against is a state sponsored religion (or creed) dicating what the discourse is. That includes atheism.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:59:56am

re: #48 theheat

That, pretty much. Underscored. I really do understand the reason this bar is being done where it's being done, and it's a shitty shitty reason, and is being done to offend and provoke. But I'm also not going to whitewash religious prejudice against homosexuals for any religion, and I don't feel it's incredibly important to be sensitive about the irrational hatred so many share about homosexuals.

You know, why not set up KKK headquarters near Ground Zero, and maybe a Scientology gift center? Let's pimp that area out with all the diversity that can be found across America, and let these people go at each other's throats. Let's show the world what an open minded society we are, and how all these niches receive the same protection and freedoms.

And at some point, maybe someone will pick up on the irony that since 2001 our country could not get its shit together enough to put up a decent memorial to all those who lost their lives in NYC on 9/11, while every other special interest - no matter how unwelcome or freaky - was able to get funding, and get something built "in the shadow" of a building that doesn't even exist yet.

If they want to open a gay bar next to my shul, I will have no issues, and may stop by for a drink.

My father would not mind if they opened a gay bar next to his church, although the actual gay patrons might find that they were being shoved out of the way on Sunday afternoons by a bunch of middle-aged straight people in their Mass clothes.

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:02:15pm

re: #70 steve_davis

I understand that they're going to include a dog kennel next to the gay bar, because they know Muslims hate dogs. And the dogs are going to be gay. I'm trying to figure out what I can open to just irritate the piss out of the Teabaggers. Probably a public school. And I'm going to offer sex education. For second graders. And it will come with one of those fold-up beds attached to a wall, so when I'm teaching second-graders about sex, I can bring in a 50-dollar hooker and have a kind of multimedia demonstration. And then the kids can make shoebox dioramas of what they've learned.

Dave Chappelle had a theory about sex ed in school. He proposed that the principal and the oldest teacher on staff have sex in front of the kids, to show them what it looked like.

He was confident that this would put them off sex for a crucial couple of years.

Because it's Dave Chappelle, the skit included a passionate love scene between two very ordinary looking middle-aged white people.

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:03:09pm

re: #75 Fozzie Bear

But, if Islam were not homophobic, the stunt would be utterly ineffective.

Thus, this bothers me not a bit.

Well, the stunt is totally ineffective, since this bar exists only in the imagination of people with nothing better to do.

SInce there's a name-it contest, though, I propose the bar be called "Convivencia".

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:04:24pm

re: #86 sattv4u2

Not at all

But if I say I'm against HCR bill I'm a "racist" because it's Obamas bill

Yup,,, if Biden was President and offered the same bill I would be 100% for it ,, yup !

Who said you were a racist for being against HCR? Real interaction, not just "I get this vibe".

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:05:43pm

re: #106 sattv4u2

Did I say that someone here said it??
AND ,, do you deny that if someone opposes current policy they haven't been told it's because of the Presidents skin color?

Yeah, actually I do deny it.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:07:44pm

re: #165 Spare O'Lake

And also has absolutely nothing to do with poking fun at the ban on alcoholism in Islam?

It has to do with hate toward Muslims.

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:09:35pm

re: #193 Max D. Reinhardt

This asshole is going off on the assumption that all Muslims are homophobes.

Cynicism. Just plain cynicism.

Also, the assumption that it's OK to mock Muslims for being homophobes. I can't think of anyone else this group would criticize for not, in their imagination, wanting a gay bar.

289 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:19:50pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear


Is this based on a premise that Muslims are homophobic?

Yes.

290 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:42:23pm

How about opening a gay wedding chapel?

291 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:51:34pm

re: #244 reine.de.tout

For the record, as an atheist, I have no problem whatsoever with this expression of faith. It's non-rational, based in an ineffable phenomena, like love or any other emotion.

That feeling I can respect just as much as I respect love, or faith that justice and honor are concepts worth celebrating and upholding.

The only place where I begin to lose trust in religion is when religious people say that based on this personal emotion, the proper way of life for others has been revealed to them. Then things get wonky.

As long as someone's faith is about their feeling, their relationship with god, it gets all my respect and protection.

292 davesax  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:18pm

The irony here is that Greg Gutfeld’s stunt really isn't all that brilliant or provocative.

A jazz club, gay bar, pet store, or lingerie shop next to a mosque, cultural center, synagogue, or church in NYC would really make for an unexceptional Manhattan block.

That Islamic center in the east village (I think it's around 11th street), is close to restaurants and bars of every stripe, with a nearby avant-garde theater that shows plays that feature nudity.

With any luck, the Islamic cultural center/mosque near ground zero will be built along with all sorts of new businesses, run by Jews, gays, Chinese, etc., and none of it will be a big deal.

That's New York.

293 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:56:22pm

re: #292 davesax

I was actually just down there in the East Village today, by that Muslim center.

Within a block of it is a kosher pizarria. There's lots of kosher and halal stuff in the neighborhood, and I saw Jews and Muslims eating at both, as well as happily chatting.

It was a nice sight.

294 davesax  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:59:16pm

re: #293 Obdicut

Yup.

Word on that.

295 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:58:12pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

It has to do with hate toward Muslims.

I don't really see where poking at misogyny or homophobia automatically qualifies as hatred.

I know I'm gonna get flamed on this, but I love the idea of having a gay bar next to the Cordoba Center, just as I love how strippers are protesting in front of a church that protested against their place of employment.

Islam has real problems with GLBT people (like killing them in many countries) and violent repression of women. Not just radical Islam but run of the mill Islam.

Trashing our Constitution and violating our free market and free association principles is not the way to counter neighbors you disagree with. I like the gay bar route much better.

Who knows.

They may even learn to get along.

296 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:34:22pm

re: #264 Charles

Atheism is not a "religion," and I've never understood why it's so important to some religious people to insist that it is.

Truth is unimportant when there is an agenda at stake.

297 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:27:10pm

Gutfeld is = to or < pondlife

298 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:28:10pm

re: #264 Charles

Atheism is not a "religion," and I've never understood why it's so important to some religious people to insist that it is.

Some of the ardent capitalists have problems comprehending a not-for-prophet enterprise.

299 Timmeh  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 7:05:25pm

re: #35 Alouette

Establishing a restaurant or a bar or any other commercial venue just for the purpose of pissing off a certain population is a really stupid business model.

The same thought occurred to me. It won't work as a business. A gay bar for muslims who don't drink? Huh?

But I don't think it's unreasonable as a general principle to ask that tolerance be reciprocated.

300 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 12:00:30am

re: #145 captdiggs

(Bill) O’Reilly has been a contrarian for years. While labeling himself a “traditionalist”—although never a ‘conservative’—and a “culture warrior,” he supports some gun-control restrictions as well as gay adoption and civil unions.

In a 2008 interview with Marvin Kalb on PBS, O’Reilly, who is hostile to the “progressive agenda,” took some decidedly progressive stands on same-sex unions and gay rights.

Asked by host Kalb “Should gays have rights?” the 6’4” Boston University graduate replied, “Sure. They are Americans.”

O’Reilly continued: “Do I care about this? Not really. I don’t care what Lenny and Squiggy do. They want to get married, let them get married. If you open it up for one group, you’ve got to open it up for all the groups. And they have done that in Holland, by the way.”

Pressed by Kalb, who asked “In terms of gays, you would have no problem with marriage?,” the Fox host answered “Personally? I don’t care.”
[Link: www.southfloridagaynews.com...]

IMO, O'Reilly is closer to being a classic libertarian than most current libertarians. His "it's none of my/your/their/our damned business" stance on this kind of issue was why I used to enjoy his show.

re: #157 lawhawk

Gov. Paterson steps in...

He's now offering to help the Cordoba Initiative relocate if they so choose.

How nice of Paterson (the lame duck governor) to offer something that is not needed or warranted.

I can't wait for Paterson to be gone from office.

It would be hysterical/horrible if someone asked Paterson a question about "within sight of Ground Zero".

re: #179 RadicalModerate

I see that Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty has weighed in yet again with his bigotry.

From Politico's Ben Smith: Islam and 2012

.

One thing that is a bit unexpected is the sheer venom that constitutes the comments section. Politico readers are usually better than the crap they're polluting this story's comments with.

Dear Governor of Minnesota--It's none of your business.

re: #264 Charles

Atheism is not a "religion," and I've never understood why it's so important to some religious people to insist that it is.

Because in their limited mindset, they can't conceive of anyone not having a religion. It's a great crutch for many, being able to assign their personal misery and lack of accomplishment to "God's Will".

re: #270 RogueOne

An agnostic is an atheist who is afraid to take a stand.

An agnostic can also be a non-theist who doesn't feel it necessary to take a stand, who leaves the decision and/or belief to each individual.

301 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 12:03:05am

re: #277 SanFranciscoZionist

These are Manhattan Muslims. I think they're used to a lot of haram stuff being around, and you know what? They just keep going. Same as the Jews do.

In the words of a friend who has long since left Brooklyn but who has never shed the accent, "Survival in New York City doesn't take a white skin, a black skin, a yellow skin, or a brown skin. It requires a thick skin."

re: #296 Slumbering Behemoth

Truth is unimportant when there is an agenda at stake.

That was so good that you're now in my Quotes file.

302 teambru  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 5:46:10am

re: #15 Charles

Huh, I guess somone at Fox forgot to ask John Stossel about his views on gay rights during the interview process:

Just as I see no reason why gays should not be free to marry, I see no reason why they shouldn't be free to be in the military. As I wrote in the conclusion to "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity": "I want government to leave people alone. I think people should be free to do anything they want -- as long as they don't hurt anyone else. I may disagree with their choices, but I don't think The State should take their choices away."

So other than your statement being demonstrably wrong, it is pretty accurate.

303 ihateronpaul  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 7:13:17am

Gret Gutfield sucks. He has a great taste in music, and that's cool and all, but he's still a regressive hateful homophobic idiotic piece of shit.

304 Fiery Red XIII  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:18:24pm

Why is a mosque okay but not a gay bar? At least we will know who owns that gay bar!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Funny name for a NY Mosque project.


Red

305 kalkin  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:22:17am

The same owners: directly 5 times a day recircualte form the mosque to the gay bar. Or ? Gay mosque?


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The Weeknd - Blinding Lights (Audio) Official audio for The Weeknd "Blinding Lights" - available everywhere now: theweeknd.co ►Subscribe to The Weeknd on YouTube: theweeknd.co ►Follow The Weeknd:@theweekndfacebook.cominstagram.comtheweeknd.comSubscribe to YouTube Music: theweeknd.co ►"Blinding Lights" Lyrics:I been tryna callI’ve been on my own for long enoughMaybe ...
Thanos
6 days, 17 hours ago
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Tuxedo - Get the Money (Feat. CeeLo Green) Official audio of Tuxedo's "Get The Money (Feat. CeeLo Green)" Stream now: tuxedo.lnk.to Subscribe to the official Tuxedo Channel here: smarturl.it Lyrics:Get the moneyAll the timeYeah we want itDollar signs We’ll pile it up to the skyTen miles highNo ...
Thanos
6 days, 18 hours ago
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