Anti-Muslim Bigotry: The New Flavor of the GOP

Politico’s Ben Smith has been collecting statements from possible Republican presidential candidates about the Park51 project (please stop calling it the “Ground Zero Mosque,” people — it’s a deliberately misleading phrase coined by bigots), and it’s a disturbing snapshot of the current state of the GOP.

George W. Bush had many flaws, but he did one thing very right: following the 9/11 attacks he resisted demonizing Muslims and instead called for tolerance. Bush consistently, unequivocally rejected the idea that the US was in a religious war with Islam itself, even though it would have been tremendously advantageous politically for him to encourage that idea in the right wing base.

But now, the governor is off the populist motor, and the current crop of GOP leaders, rather than standing up for the Constitution and American values, are all jockeying to exploit the raging prejudice.

2012ers on the mosque.

Palin (7/18): “Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. .”

Gingrich (7/21): “There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.”

Pawlenty (8/6): “I think it’s inappropriate… From a patriotic standpoint, it’s hallowed ground, it’s sacred ground, and we should respect that. We shouldn’t have images or activities that degrade or disrespect that in any way.”

Huckabee (8/4): Even if the Muslims have the right to build it, don’t they do more to serve the public interest by exercising the responsible judgement to not build it, given that it’s really offensive to most New Yorkers and Americans? Or is it just that we can offend Americans and Christians, but not foreigners and Muslims?”

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom (today): “Governor Romney opposes the construction of the mosque at Ground Zero. The wishes of the families of the deceased and the potential for extremists to use the mosque for global recruiting and propaganda compel rejection of this site.”

In another post, Ben Smith notes that Tim Pawlenty, who suggested the Park51 project is unpatriotic, is refusing to moderate his position even after coming under heavy criticism. Pawlenty and his fellow Republican front runners see bigotry and demagoguery as a winning tactic.

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672 comments

1 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:19:29am

This will not end well. This rabble rousing can only end in blood and tears. How far are they willing to push this rhetoric?

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:19:42am

1.) Demonize muslims

2.) ???

3.) Profit and/or electoral gain!

3 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:20:48am

re: #1 SinisterBen

This will not end well. This rabble rousing can only end in blood and tears. How far are they willing to push this rhetoric?

A new hatchling's come out of his shell! Welcome!

4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:22:26am

re: #1 SinisterBen

the smart ones will push the envelope right up to the edge of no longer having plausible deniability when it comes to incitement. Granted, to most people they lost plausible deniability a long time ago. They're acting like the equivalent of Michael Richards standing up and shouting the N word over and over again but never saying "Attack, Kill" etc.

5 thatthatisis  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:22:28am

I think it all goes together with accusing Obama of being a sekrit muzlim. Hating on Muslims helps whip up the hate against Obama. It's so much easier and more PC for real Americans to hate Muslims than black people these days.

6 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:22:59am

re: #5 thatthatisis

this, also. too.

7 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:23:48am

Governor Huckster... You offend both God and free Americans by denying any group their rights under the Constitution. Remember:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

(I cannot quote this enough).

8 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:26:09am

Since a majority of New Yorkers surveyed who identify themselves as either liberal (52%) or moderate ( 55% ) also oppose the project, it seems a little off-point to focus on republicans and conservatives as if they were the only voices against Park51.

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:27:51am

re: #8 tradewind

How many liberals and moderates are embracing hatred of muslims in order to further their cause? How many are planning on opening gay bars next door and/or inciting people to hate muslims.

10 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:28:47am

re: #3 JasonA

A new hatchling's come out of his shell! Welcome!

Thanks, I just couldn't let this go by without comment anymore.

re: #4 Dreggas

the smart ones will push the envelope right up to the edge of no longer having plausible deniability when it comes to incitement. Granted, to most people they lost plausible deniability a long time ago. They're acting like the equivalent of Michael Richards standing up and shouting the N word over and over again but never saying "Attack, Kill" etc.

Exactly, then when someone dies because of this rhetoric, they will fall back on the fact that they never outright said they should hurt them. Just that "somebody needed to do something." Like the Tiller murder.

11 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:29:57am

re: #8 tradewind

Since a majority of New Yorkers surveyed who identify themselves as either liberal (52%) or moderate ( 55% ) also oppose the project, it seems a little off-point to focus on republicans and conservatives as if they were the only voices against Park51.

Show us the quotes from high-ups in the Democratic party, like we have at the top of this page for Republicans, and then we can talk.

12 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:31:17am

From listening to those assholes, you'd think the Port Authority had approved a plan to replace the WTC with a mosque.

These people are nothing more than Ground Zero dog whistle blowers. If anyone is stepping on the victims of 9/11 for personal gain, it's Palin, Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, etc.

13 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:33:09am

re: #9 Dreggas
Since the implication has been that opposition to the project=anti-muslim bigotry, that was my focus. I suppose if these moderates and liberals are opposed, you'll have to infer that they're bigoted.
The big picture. As for the individual snapshots, I don't know, and really, rhetorical questions don't call for serious answers anyway.

14 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:33:53am

Simply frigging disgusting, and why I am registered as a Democrat after 37 years of pulling the R lever. I voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr., Dole, Bush jr... not again until the Republicans regain their senses.

15 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:35:17am

re: #13 tradewind

Since the implication has been that opposition to the project=anti-muslim bigotry, that was my focus. I suppose if these moderates and liberals are opposed, you'll have to infer that they're bigoted.
The big picture. As for the individual snapshots, I don't know, and really, rhetorical questions don't call for serious answers anyway.

Well I am pretty sure anyone can be a bigot. I think the question is who is pushing the rhetoric? I don't see many Liberals on the national (or even state) level saying anything like what the Republicans are pushing.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:36:40am

re: #13 tradewind

Since the implication has been that opposition to the project=anti-muslim bigotry, that was my focus.

And since your implication is that opposition is NOT anti-Muslim bigotry, exactly what opposition points do you think have merit?

17 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:37:56am

re: #14 Thanos

Simply frigging disgusting, and why I am registered as a Democrat after 37 years of pulling the R lever. I voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr., Dole, Bush jr... not again until the Republicans regain their senses.

... also McCain

18 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:38:03am

re: #15 SinisterBen

Well I am pretty sure anyone can be a bigot. I think the question is who is pushing the rhetoric? I don't see many Liberals on the national (or even state) level saying anything like what the Republicans are pushing.

tw lives for false equivalences. "They do it too" is just his/her way of justifying the bigotry being demonstrated by the leadership of the Republican party these days.

19 avanti  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:38:40am

re: #14 Thanos

Simply frigging disgusting, and why I am registered as a Democrat after 37 years of pulling the R lever. I voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr., Dole, Bush jr... not again until the Republicans regain their senses.

That's all well and good, but as long as the hate gains more votes from far right base than it loses from the middle, it won't matter.
Any real conservative that speaks out will be labeled a RINO and tossed aside as the GOP speeds toward the abyss.

20 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:39:57am

re: #18 darthstar

tw lives for false equivalences. "They do it too" is just his/her way of justifying the bigotry being demonstrated by the leadership of the Republican party these days.

Ah, I haven't lurked enough to feel all these folks out. I just cringe when people fall back on those sorts of positions. I will tell you I have prejudices, but were I to govern, I would never suggest that I should act upon those.

Of course those are famous last words.

21 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:41:03am

re: #19 avanti

That's all well and good, but as long as the hate gains more votes from far right base than it loses from the middle, it won't matter in the primaries, but just wait for the general elections!.

FTFM

22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:41:19am

As far as I'm concerned, there are no valid objections to the Park51 project. Every talking point has been shown to be distorted, false, or illogical.

When you eliminate rational reasons for opposing it, all that's left is prejudice.

23 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:42:59am

re: #22 Charles

As far as I'm concerned, there are no valid objections to the Park51 project. Every talking point has been shown to be distorted, false, or illogical.

When you eliminate rational reasons for opposing it, all that's left is prejudice.

I wonder at times how far we are from outright bigoted ads on TV. I live in Arkansas and stumbled upon our "Nationalist" party site. How far from mainstream are their views? The GOP seems only steps away from them.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:43:07am

Speech made by George W. Bush at an American mosque on 9/17/01:

Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a wide-ranging discussion on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks, and so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans, our Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslim in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, and it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Qur'an itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil, for that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule."

The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war. When we think of Islam, we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race, out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. The Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads, and they need to be treated with respect.

In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear covering must not be intimidated in America. That's not the America I know; that's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America. Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America. They represent the worst of humankind. And they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

And it's a great country; it's a great country because (we) share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They are outraged; they're sad. They love America just as much as I do. And I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by, and may God bless us all. Thank you.

25 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:43:44am

re: #16 Charles

And since your implication is that opposition is NOT anti-Muslim bigotry, exactly what opposition points do you think have merit?

It is very easy to be opposed to this project, because of the situation. And it seems there are a lot of people who are opposed to it; probably the more people really think about it the more they'll realize that it's a silly opposition. But being opposed doesn't warrant the term "Anti-Muslim Bigot" being used to describe you. Unfortunately, there are a number of true Anti-Muslim Bigots that are leveraging the situation to play on people's emotions.

26 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:44:13am

re: #8 tradewind

Since a majority of New Yorkers surveyed who identify themselves as either liberal (52%) or moderate ( 55% ) also oppose the project, it seems a little off-point to focus on republicans and conservatives as if they were the only voices against Park51.

Which liberal pols are leading the charge against the mosque?

Who on the center-left is foaming at the mouth a la Gingrich, Palin, Kristol, Beck and other conservatives all trying to prove who hates Muslims the most?

BTW, we don't take away people's constitutional rights based on opinion polls.

27 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:44:19am

I'm going to continue calling it the Cordoba House project, because that's what its proponents are calling it - and what its own website continues calling it, when they aren't referring to it as Park51. The group backing the project is the Cordoba Initiative, but one thing it most certainly isn't is a Ground Zero mosque, since it is not located at Ground Zero.

It's near Ground Zero, but so are strip clubs, bars, boutiques, hotels, residences, shopping centers, and office space. In fact, office space is one of the main parts of the rebuilding at Ground Zero - millions of square feet of office space. Oh, and hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail space too.

28 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:44:29am

re: #23 SinisterBen

They are more skilled at using codewords and dog whistles, but I think the day is not far at hand when they drop those too.

29 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:45:22am

I am very disappointed in Governor Romney. As a Mormon he should have at least some sympathy with the institutional memory of our people being murdered and forced out of state after state based on rumors and exaggerations.

For every Governor Boggs sending out extermination orders there were plenty of "innocent bystanders" who clicked their tongues and decided it would be better if the Mormons didn't settle in their county.

Very disappointed does not begin to express my feelings about his spokespersons quote. I hope he repudiates it. I'm not holding my breath.

30 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:26am

re: #26 palomino

Gov. Paterson appears to have come out against it. He's gone into pretzel logic at the same time.

31 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:29am

re: #5 thatthatisis

I think it all goes together with accusing Obama of being a sekrit muzlim. Hating on Muslims helps whip up the hate against Obama. It's so much easier and more PC for real Americans to hate Muslims than black people these days.

For someone who is a "sekrit muslim", I find it rather interesting that a rather large number (maybe even record numbers) of his political appointments are of the Jewish faith - including the latest Supreme Court Justice.

32 'K.'  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:34am

It's very depressing from the perspective of someone who values religion in society to see people fighting so much against a small minority faith. Where is Christianity losing young people to in America? Not to Islam by any means. Those of my generation are simply departing organized religion entirely. Where is the outcry about the shrinking of religious organizations? Where is the concern about creeping faithlessness?

These politicians don't seem to care much. I think they may just be using religion as a cover for militarist sentiments, fanning the flames of fear against countries in the Middle East. This appears not really about Christian v. Muslim at all but rather about America v. Iran. That is why 9/11 is the focus and not a conflict of religious ideas. Islam is a small faith in America, maybe 1% of the population. There is no way it can change our laws appreciably right now. Gingrich is no dummy; he knows that. But this isn't about domestic Muslims or even about religion at all. People who are really concerned about religion in America should the lack of genuine attention appalling.

33 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:46:58am

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a collection of quotes on Islam from Bush here: Backgrounder: The President's Quotes on Islam.

I've said it before and that's that with the absence of Bush the right wing has no leadership or has lost all hope for being rational with regards to Islam and Muslim-Americans. The right needs someone like Bush to keep them level headed.

34 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:47:29am

Has this been mentioned here yet? I don't recall seeing it linked before:

Attention Bigots: There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

Wonkette operative “Evan B.” writes: “The debate over the planned mosque at Ground Zero seems a bit retarded to me; I work directly between the planned mosque and a mosque that has existed before 9/11 and continues to operate to this day. The existing mosque and the proposed mosque are probably 800 feet apart; one city block, let’s say.” This is humorous! LISTEN UP, HATEFUL ASSHOLES: The end is near! The Muslins have already invaded that city you call godless yet love because terrorism happened there! YOU ARE RIGHT TO BE VERY, VERY SCARED AND ANGRY ABOUT THIS! So you have to kill yourselves right now! It is the only way!

Another excerpt:

Of course, this mosque’s website is depressing, because before they can list information about their place of worship, they have to throw this up there:

DISCLAIMER:
Please be advised that we are by no means affiliated with any other organization trying to build anything new in the area of downtown Manhattan.

But they use the term “masjid” (”mosque”) to refer to their mosque instead of “mosque,” so the dumb bigots will likely continue to be ignorant of its existence. Hooray!

So where are all the protests against this unpatriotic, un-American, heart-stabbing place? 9_9

35 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:48:07am

re: #33 Gus 802

I miss Bush.

36 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:48:42am

re: #34 publicityStunted

I'll go one further. The proposed site is already being used as a prayer space for Muslims, and it has been that way since the CI bought the property.

37 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:48:48am

re: #19 avanti

That's all well and good, but as long as the hate gains more votes from far right base than it loses from the middle, it won't matter.
Any real conservative that speaks out will be labeled a RINO and tossed aside as the GOP speeds toward the abyss.

Agreed. Have any republicans had the guts to speak out in favor of the mosque?

38 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:49:00am

re: #35 cliffster

I miss Bush.

Good lord who thought I would ever say that Bush was doing the Muslim relations thing here in America right?

39 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:49:03am

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

40 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:49:12am

re: #16 Charles
I don't know.... but evidently the Muslim Canadian MP Raheel Raza, who is opposing the project, has some ideas. And democrats are not exactly standing up.... they're saying as little as possible.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

41 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:49:41am

re: #31 RadicalModerate

For someone who is a "sekrit muslim", I find it rather interesting that a rather large number (maybe even record numbers) of his political appointments are of the Jewish faith - including the latest Supreme Court Justice.

Now if we could just get congress to eschew pork. /

42 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:50:19am

re: #40 tradewind

I don't know... but evidently the Muslim Canadian MP Raheel Raza, who is opposing the project, has some ideas. And democrats are not exactly standing up... they're saying as little as possible.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

You realize that we've seen Raheel Raza's name flash in front of the screen at least 100 times already. Most of us have already read what she has to say.

43 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:51:14am

re: #39 Spare O'Lake

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

I don't think freedom of religion is subject to majority rule. Just a wild shot in the the dark...

44 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:51:44am

The question really comes down to, do the inmates run the asylum? The concept of the loyal opposition has been utterly trashed in a scorched earth war to demonize and dehumanize anyone who isn't conservative enough. The entire mess isn't recent as we know, think back to the quotes about 'real america' in the campaign. Then look back to the elections in 2002, 2004, in which people who weren't pro war enough were trashed and treated as little better than traitors and un-American. Heck, even now there's a significant minority of people who still believe that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks.

At this point, I'm no longer shocked that there's this much vitriol coming from the Republican party. They know their base, they know their audience, they know exactly who they're talking to. And it's the worst of America that they're pandering to, not the best. It makes me sad, and I despair to think that we've reached this point.

One final thought, I remember how much the conservatives would yell and disparage non-conservatives for being upset. It got to the point where the response was, 'if you hate America so much, just leave'. But instead of taking their own advice and simply leaving, they aim to destroy the country by splitting it up. We can argue that the talk in TN and in TX is just hot air, but I think there's a darker and stronger undercurrent to it. That there is an undercurrent of hatred that lurks towards those people who aren't a part of the 'real America.'

The outrage and Bigotry against the Muslim faith is merely a symptom of the disease that has eaten at the soul of the conservative movement.

45 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:51:46am

re: #39 Spare O'Lake

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

Nobody gave a crap about the Park 51 project until a few right wingers started making it a daily story on Fox...yourself included.

46 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:51:54am

re: #43 JasonA

I don't think freedom of religion is subject to majority rule. Just a wild shot in the the dark...

You must have missed the Family Research Council lawyer's opinion. ;)

47 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:09am

re: #42 Gus 802
No, I don't. I can't always keep up 24/7 , Gus.//
Actually, since it's not in my city or state, and doesn't affect me personally, I don't have a strong opinion and don't feel as if I have a right to one re Park51. I do believe that the people who live in the area should have more input and that their feelings should be considered.
That's all.

48 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:31am

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm a flaming liberal, and lately, I miss Bush, because he was able to keep the right placated in a way nobody else can. Obama could say the same exact thing, and he'd be ignored or even derided for saying these things.

49 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:34am

re: #47 tradewind

No, I don't. I can't always keep up 24/7 , Gus.//
Actually, since it's not in my city or state, and doesn't affect me personally, I don't have a strong opinion and don't feel as if I have a right to one re Park51. I do believe that the people who live in the area should have more input and that their feelings should be considered.
That's all.

Would you say you are concerned?

50 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:47am

re: #37 palomino

Agreed. Have any republicans had the guts to speak out in favor of the mosque?


Bloomberg was fairly clear about their rights:


"Whatever you may think of the proposed mosque and community center," the mayor said, "lost in the heat of the debate has been a basic question: Should government attempt to deny private citizens the right to build a house of worship on private property based on their particular religion? That may happen in other countries, but we should never allow it to happen here. This nation was founded on the principle that government must never choose between religions or favor one over another.

"The World Trade Center site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts. But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said 'no' to a mosque in lower Manhattan."

51 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:52:49am

re: #47 tradewind

No, I don't. I can't always keep up 24/7 , Gus.//
Actually, since it's not in my city or state, and doesn't affect me personally, I don't have a strong opinion and don't feel as if I have a right to one re Park51. I do believe that the people who live in the area should have more input and that their feelings should be considered.
That's all.

Not a big deal. Just sayin' you know. Her name keep popping up hourly it seems.

52 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:53:00am

re: #46 SinisterBen

You must have missed the Family Research Council lawyer's opinion. ;)

Dodged a bullet there as far as I'm concerned.

53 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:53:04am

re: #43 JasonA

I don't think freedom of religion is subject to majority rule. Just a wild shot in the the dark...

Pay attention please, the Dem Governor said "with the consent of the developers". Now what is wrong with a consensual compromise?

54 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:53:17am

re: #27 lawhawk

I'm going to continue calling it the Cordoba House project, because that's what its proponents are calling it - and what its own website continues calling it, when they aren't referring to it as Park51. The group backing the project is the Cordoba Initiative, but one thing it most certainly isn't is a Ground Zero mosque, since it is not located at Ground Zero.

It's near Ground Zero, but so are strip clubs, bars, boutiques, hotels, residences, shopping centers, and office space. In fact, office space is one of the main parts of the rebuilding at Ground Zero - millions of square feet of office space. Oh, and hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail space too.

Good point. I think a lot of the critics don't understand, or just ignore, the extremely dense layout of NYC. A distance of two blocks in Manhattan is like two miles in Houston or Los Angeles. There are literally dozens of buildings and thousands of residents and workers between GZ and the mosque location. Calling it the GZ Mosque is inflammatory disingenuous bullshit.

55 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:53:50am

re: #42 Gus 802

You realize that we've seen Raheel Raza's name flash in front of the screen at least 100 times already. Most of us have already read what she has to say.

I also noticed the sound of crickets chirping in response to that article.
I guess it's hard to call her an anti-muslim bigot, considering she is a muslim and has serious credentials in interfaith relations.

56 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:54:11am

re: #44 bloodstar

Favorited!

57 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:54:13am

re: #40 tradewind

You didn't answer my question.

58 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:55:08am

re: #30 lawhawk

Gov. Paterson appears to have come out against it. He's gone into pretzel logic at the same time.

Didn't know that. Anybody else, like someone whose reputation is still intact?

59 garhighway  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:55:16am

re: #25 cliffster

It is very easy to be opposed to this project, because of the situation.

What does "because of the situation" mean?

Is that a Jersey Shore reference?

60 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:55:29am

re: #42 Gus 802

You realize that we've seen Raheel Raza's name flash in front of the screen at least 100 times already. Most of us have already read what she has to say.

Over and over they post that one. It's supposed to end the argument, and prove that there's no bigotry going on here.

61 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:07am

re: #44 bloodstar

Heck, even now there's a significant minority of people who still believe that Iraq The Bush-Cheney machine, or alternatively, Da Joos was were behind the 9/11 attacks.


FTFY.

62 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:24am

re: #49 SinisterBen
Not so much.

63 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:31am

re: #55 captdiggs

It sounds like a cousin of the "mah black friend" argument to me.

64 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:56:50am

re: #42 Gus 802

You realize that we've seen Raheel Raza's name flash in front of the screen at least 100 times already. Most of us have already read what she has to say.

Indeed.

Groups like the MCC, to which Raza belongs, are to moderate Muslims as moonbats are to centrists. They are a small but shrill minority who speak neither to nor for the average moderate or even center-left Muslim (like myself). We know that and so do they.

They have apparently gone so far to the left that they've crossed into territory where they seem to be channeling Geller. But, hey, anything to further one's political agenda and sell books, right?

65 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:57:05am

re: #33 Gus 802

There's a collection of quotes on Islam from Bush here: Backgrounder: The President's Quotes on Islam.

I've said it before and that's that with the absence of Bush the right wing has no leadership or has lost all hope for being rational with regards to Islam and Muslim-Americans. The right needs someone like Bush to keep them level headed.

Compared to the current GOP leaders and presidential hopefuls, Bush is a secular moderate.

66 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:57:11am

re: #53 Spare O'Lake

Pay attention please, the Dem Governor said "with the consent of the developers". Now what is wrong with a consensual compromise?

What's wrong is that the government should be staying out of this entirely.

67 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:57:28am

re: #60 Charles

Over and over they post that one. It's supposed to end the argument, and prove that there's no bigotry going on here.

It's certainly a counter argument that all who oppose the location are "bigots".

68 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:58:00am

re: #66 JasonA

What's wrong is that the government should be staying out of this entirely.

This sounds like a small limited-government argument to me. I thought that was the Republican way?

69 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:58:03am

re: #60 Charles
Serious question: I haven't seen that particular interview, but I've gotten the gist and have read similar articles involving different muslim spokespeople. What is their purpose?

70 abbyadams  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:58:33am

What happens if it is a winning tactic? That's what worries me. We keep saying that things like this open up a dialogue on race, religion, etc. Some dialogue; so far, all I hear is shouting.

71 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:58:35am

re: #67 captdiggs

It's certainly a counter argument that all who oppose the location are "bigots".

No, it really isn't. But I see why you'd like to believe that.

72 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 11:59:18am

re: #59 garhighway

What does "because of the situation" mean?

Is that a Jersey Shore reference?

If you tell me that you really don't see how people, New Yorkers especially, have a negative reaction to this project, then I don't believe you. It's just not that hard to understand and pretending otherwise is just being silly. Yes, it's an illogical and purely emotional reaction, but it's easy to understand people having it.

73 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:00:09pm

re: #60 Charles

Over and over they post that one. It's supposed to end the argument, and prove that there's no bigotry going on here.

It reminds me of the response from Breitbart and company with the Uni-Tea gathering and the recent black Tea Party member's press conference. As an example it would also be like using (or promoting) a gay man that opposed Prop. 8 to support an argument in favor of Prop. 8 or to undermine the rampant homophobia surrounding the recent ruling.

74 ShaunP  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:00:42pm

re: #55 captdiggs

I also noticed the sound of crickets chirping in response to that article.
I guess it's hard to call her an anti-muslim bigot, considering she is a muslim and has serious credentials in interfaith relations.

Broken down to it's simplest form, the argument over the mosque is that we shouldn't allow the people that destroyed the WTC build in the general vicinity. Considering the varied nature of Islam, that is a flawed argument. To say that the people building this mosque had anything to do with 9/11 is flat out wrong.

IMO, opposition is coming in three forms: 1) there are people that honestly don't see that the argument is bigoted at its base (likely most), 2) bigots pushing the agenda (Geller/Spencer) and 3) people who see that the mosque itself isn't an issue, but feel that in order to keep the bigots in their little hidey holes, it's bad for muslim relations (IMO, that is Raza's segment)...

75 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:00:45pm

re: #72 cliffster

I'm pretty sure bigotry is "illogical and purely emotional".

76 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:00:50pm

re: #70 abbyadams

What happens if it is a winning tactic? That's what worries me. We keep saying that things like this open up a dialogue on race, religion, etc. Some dialogue; so far, all I hear is shouting.

This is what worries me to. This rhetoric is the path to an authoritarian government. The knowledge that our country is actually back pedaling on race relations worries me.

77 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:01:55pm

Are social conservatives starting to get why religion doesn't belong in politics? Do you need yet another reminder?

78 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:02:12pm

re: #45 darthstar

The story began with a NYT report on the proposed project (and noted that the building was already being used as a prayer space). The dog pile of coverage grew from there, and once you got the NYC media into it, it was destined to spread across the nation, even though few of those outlets reported the situation accurately (headlines blaring Ground Zero mosque, for instance, when it isn't situated in Ground Zero), claims that it will open 9/11/2011 (proffered by the NY Post's Andrea Peyser without any basis in fact), etc.

79 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:03:37pm

re: #57 Charles
Oh, sorry.
I don't believe that taking into account the sensitivities of a majority of citizens is necessarily a sign of bigotry .

80 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:03:40pm

re: #50 DaddyG

Bloomberg was fairly clear about their rights:

"Whatever you may think of the proposed mosque and community center," the mayor said, "lost in the heat of the debate has been a basic question: Should government attempt to deny private citizens the right to build a house of worship on private property based on their particular religion? That may happen in other countries, but we should never allow it to happen here. This nation was founded on the principle that government must never choose between religions or favor one over another.

"The World Trade Center site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts. But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said 'no' to a mosque in lower Manhattan."

True, and that was a great speech. But I was excluding Bloomberg because he left the republican party 3 years ago.

81 bobster1985  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:04:16pm

We should close every church in Oklahoma City because Timothy McVeigh was a Christian.

82 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:04:26pm

RIP Senator Ted Stevens

83 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:04:30pm

re: #79 tradewind

Oh, sorry.
I don't believe that taking into account the sensitivities of a majority of citizens is necessarily a sign of bigotry .

Taking into account the sensitivities of a bigoted majority, is indeed bigoted.

84 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:05:09pm

re: #83 Fozzie Bear

Taking into account the sensitivities of a bigoted majority, is indeed bigoted.

Mutters something about tolerance of the intolerant.

85 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:05:18pm

re: #54 palomino

Indeed. More than 10 million sf of office space was destroyed at the WTC on 9/11. Millions of sf of space were damaged.

That was about 6% of NYC office space, or equivalent to the any number of cities in the US. The rebuilding of that space is slow, but it's picked up the pace and the Freedom Tower is adding 3 floors a week (they're raising steel in 30 foot increments (roughly 3 floors at a time). But most of the construction is at or below ground level - because there were 7 levels of office/retail space at the time of the attacks, and the 9/11 memorial/museum are largely contained within that space.

86 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:05:39pm

re: #83 Fozzie Bear

Taking into account the sensitivities of a bigoted majority, is indeed bigoted.

It's so simple, yet...

87 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:06:22pm

re: #79 tradewind

LOL, screw the constitution and our laws!

Let's just go based on "sensitivity" of a majority of a populace.

88 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:06:39pm

re: #77 Fozzie Bear

Are social conservatives starting to get why religion doesn't belong in politics? Do you need yet another reminder?

Its good to know that no Atheists are involved in the protests. /

89 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:06:46pm

I think there are many who "don't feel right" about something being built close to the WTC are doing it based on emotions over 9/11 - and they are treating Islam like a monolithic faith.

That is wrong but I don't think is mean spirited.

There are some who are bigoted, who also seem to have big media capabilities, that want nothing Muslim there even though they know better. That is wrong AND mean spirited.

As for keeping religion and politics separate, I agree completely. I would go so far to say that religious organizations should not have tax free status or anything.

I don't know if the socons understand this, but the more religion gets involved in politics, the more politics will become involved with religion - and that will bite them.

Plus, Jesus never ran for public office.

90 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:07:14pm

re: #74 ShaunP

Broken down to it's simplest form, the argument over the mosque is that we shouldn't allow the people that destroyed the WTC build in the general vicinity. Considering the varied nature of Islam, that is a flawed argument. To say that the people building this mosque had anything to do with 9/11 is flat out wrong.

IMO, opposition is coming in three forms: 1) there are people that honestly don't see that the argument is bigoted at its base (likely most), 2) bigots pushing the agenda (Geller/Spencer) and 3) people who see that the mosque itself isn't an issue, but feel that in order to keep the bigots in their little hidey holes, it's bad for muslim relations (IMO, that is Raza's segment)...

I agree that there are some people who may be unaware that their opposition to the mosque is based on prejudice, either because they're ignorant about the facts or because they don't care about the facts. But I'm not sure that's a valid excuse. If you don't know the facts, continuing to spout an ignorant position is at best irresponsible, at worst an indication of, yes, bigotry.

91 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:07:33pm

Letting blacks sit at the same lunch counter didn't "feel right" to a lot of people not too long ago.

92 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:07:54pm

re: #61 tradewind

FTFY.

Shorter:

Hey look! over there, there's a smaller group of people in America who believe something stupid and outlandish, so our stupid and outlandish believes are now justified!

I could care less if there's a few nutcases in the liberal side. You should too, because they're not the one's who's driving the dialogue and pushing the country towards intolerance and hate.

93 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:08:17pm

re: #91 JasonA

Ooh, ooh, let me fetch the statistics for the 5 boroughs on that.
/

94 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:08:32pm

re: #87 erraticsphinx

LOL, screw the constitution and our laws!

Let's just go based on "sensitivity" of a majority of a populace.


Majority Vote by Twitter!

95 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:08:40pm

re: #66 JasonA
When the government is financing a world tour for the project's head, to Saudi and other middle eastern countries who no doubt see this project as a sign of western weakness and capitulation ( because they would never even consider a similar deal), the government is not exactly ' staying out of it'.
We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.

96 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:08:45pm

re: #79 tradewind

Oh, sorry.
I don't believe that taking into account the sensitivities of a majority of citizens is necessarily a sign of bigotry .

Why isn't the majority of Manhattanites that support the project good enough? Them being the ones who actually live there and all. Why go off the island for opinions unless the first answer wasn't the one you were looking for?

97 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:08:58pm

re: #88 DaddyG

Its good to know that no Atheists are involved in the protests. /

Yeah all those atheist social conservatives...

98 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:09:38pm

re: #91 JasonA

Which is why, as Charles has said, feelings have no place in this argument. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

If they have the right to build the Mosque there (and I think they do), they should be free to do so.

I was merely pointing out that some who are against this maybe wrong-headed, but I think they are not doing it our of bigotry.

99 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:09:47pm

re: #95 tradewind

Belly laugh.

Yeah, there's basically no legitimate opposing to this project. Sorry.

100 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:10:35pm

re: #83 Fozzie Bear
Again, it's your opinion that opposition is based solely on bigotry. That there can be other considerations is not something you are willing to contemplate, but that doesn't mean they don't have validity.

101 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:10:36pm

re: #89 brownbagj

I don't know if the socons understand this, but the more religion gets involved in politics, the more politics will become involved with religion - and that will bite them.

Plus, Jesus never ran for public office.

Quoted for motherfucking truth.

102 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:10:51pm

re: #95 tradewind

When the government is financing a world tour for the project's head, to Saudi and other middle eastern countries who no doubt see this project as a sign of western weakness and capitulation ( because they would never even consider a similar deal), the government is not exactly ' staying out of it'.
We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.


Again we see the "we should be more like the Saudis because they won't be more like us" argument.

103 researchok  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:11:08pm

re: #40 tradewind

I don't know... but evidently the Muslim Canadian MP Raheel Raza, who is opposing the project, has some ideas. And democrats are not exactly standing up... they're saying as little as possible.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

Raheel Raza has voiced an opinion which may or may not have merit.

That opinion changes nothing. The Islamic Center has the right to build where they want as long as they do not violate any laws or regulation. It bears remembering that not too long ago Jews, Seventh Day Adventists and even Catholics faced stiff opposition when they wanted to establish Houses of Worship and a presence in some neighborhoods.

The Cordoba House will establish itself as an asset or detriment to the community around it based on their actions and beliefs. They will author their own destiny. If they choose to voice ideas and opinions that are offensive they will bear the well earned wrath of all of New York City residents. If they voice ideas and opinions that embrace tolerance, peace and non violence, they will be celebrated.

104 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:11:11pm

re: #79 tradewind

Oh, sorry.
I don't believe that taking into account the sensitivities of a majority of citizens is necessarily a sign of bigotry .

When they own the land, have all the permits, are not creating an environmental or pollution hazard and are in the United States, where we have equal protection under the law and supposedly a respect for private property and freedom of religion... then yes allowing the tyranny of a screaming majority to say no to them and run them out of town is un-American and motivated by bigotry.

105 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:11:41pm

re: #100 tradewind

Again, it's your opinion that opposition is based solely on bigotry. That there can be other considerations is not something you are willing to contemplate, but that doesn't mean they don't have validity.

Which ones have the validity again?

106 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:11:58pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

Yeah all those atheist social conservatives...

I join you in condemning the So-Con bigotry (I even expressed my disappointment with a public figure that shares my own religion) but do you really think Atheists are not sympatico with the NIMBYs in NY?

107 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:01pm

re: #95 tradewind

When the government is financing a world tour for the project's head, to Saudi and other middle eastern countries who no doubt see this project as a sign of western weakness and capitulation ( because they would never even consider a similar deal), the government is not exactly ' staying out of it'.
We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.

I don't really give a crap how they see it. It's not "capitulation" to say "you may build a mosque here." It's part of the foundation of our way of life.

108 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:20pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

And there could be Madrassas too!

Madrassas with a pool and fitness center that are open to all faiths.

Teh horrorz.

109 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:24pm

re: #73 Gus 802

It reminds me of the response from Breitbart and company with the Uni-Tea gathering and the recent black Tea Party member's press conference. As an example it would also be like using (or promoting) a gay man that opposed Prop. 8 to support an argument in favor of Prop. 8 or to undermine the rampant homophobia surrounding the recent ruling.

You're overstating the homophobia. Just look: Gay Republicans!

110 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:30pm

re: #95 tradewind


We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.

Name one.

111 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:33pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

Again we see the "we should be more like the Saudis because they won't be more like us" argument.

You see the same people saying that would should emulate Mexican immigration laws as well. However, if one were to say we should look at another system, say like heathcare, they will tell you "This is America damnit, we don't need their silly ideas. Why do you hate America?"

112 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:33pm

Regarding Ted Steven's death.....I see the left reconnoitering to be as douchebaggery as the right.....

We lose the most progressive, truth-telling, anti-war voice in the Senate at a key time in the nation's history, when every powerful force in the country was lying to us about war.

They lose an irrelevant former corrupt politician. This tragedy does NOTHING to change the circumstances or disturbing timing of Paul Wellstone's death. - Daily KOS commenter

113 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:12:35pm

re: #100 tradewind

Again, it's your opinion that opposition is based solely on bigotry. That there can be other considerations is not something you are willing to contemplate, but that doesn't mean they don't have validity.

By all means, state your non-bigoted objections then.

114 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:13:09pm

re: #89 brownbagj

Plus, Jesus never ran for public office.


Sigh.
Or posted on a blog, or sent an e-mail.//

115 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:13:39pm

re: #109 palomino

You're overstating the homophobia. Just look: Gay Republicans!

The City I live in has a paper called the "Log Cabin Democrat" I always grin a little when I think about the name.

116 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:13:54pm

Summer posted this yesterday, and I think it deserves to be read by everyone here.

Very interesting Slate article on the Cordoba House from Mr. Hitchens:

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Hitchens sees problems with the mosque/community center and its somewhat weaselly founder, but none that would prevent its construction, and he sees far bigger problems with the "patriotic" opponents who would jettison the First Amendment to stop it.

117 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:14:11pm

I am sure some Islamic fundamentalists think our letting women vote, or God forbid go outside with another man makes us seem weak. Doesn't mean we should stop doing that either.

118 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:14:34pm

Sean O'Keefe ex NASA chief and his Son survived the plane crash in Alaska...
A little good news today

119 captdiggs  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:01pm

re: #74 ShaunP

Broken down to it's simplest form, the argument over the mosque is that we shouldn't allow the people that destroyed the WTC build in the general vicinity. ... people who see that the mosque itself isn't an issue, but feel that in order to keep the bigots in their little hidey holes, it's bad for muslim relations (IMO, that is Raza's segment)...


Actually, Ms Raza's piece says that the choice of location was selected as a deliberate provocation.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:06pm

re: #31 RadicalModerate

For someone who is a "sekrit muslim", I find it rather interesting that a rather large number (maybe even record numbers) of his political appointments are of the Jewish faith - including the latest Supreme Court Justice.

Kagan is also a sekrit Muslim. Try to keep up!!

121 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:07pm

re: #95 tradewind

When the government is financing a world tour for the project's head, to Saudi and other middle eastern countries who no doubt see this project as a sign of western weakness and capitulation ( because they would never even consider a similar deal), the government is not exactly ' staying out of it'.
We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.

I see you've bit Spencer's contra constitutional lines fully, and the hook and sinker are hanging out your petulant clash of civilizations bunghole. You speak of foreigners but are willing to buy this twaddle from a foreign lobbyist who's here to further the Orthodox Pan Serbian lobby's aims over US interests.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:45pm

re: #33 Gus 802

There's a collection of quotes on Islam from Bush here: Backgrounder: The President's Quotes on Islam.

I've said it before and that's that with the absence of Bush the right wing has no leadership or has lost all hope for being rational with regards to Islam and Muslim-Americans. The right needs someone like Bush to keep them level headed.

I'm just trying to imagine what would be said now about a politician from either major party who made that speech, at a mosque.

123 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:48pm

re: #112 Big Steve

one quote does not represent everyone. Especially not one quote pulled from DKos, posted by any of the multitude of people who comment there.

124 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:49pm

re: #100 tradewind

Again, it's your opinion that opposition is based solely on bigotry. That there can be other considerations is not something you are willing to contemplate, but that doesn't mean they don't have validity.

Then why can't you list some of the "valid" objections?

125 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:54pm

re: #103 researchok

Raheel Raza has voiced an opinion which may or may not have merit.


Good point. I would think you'd concede the same is true of Romney, etc.

126 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:15:57pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

Kagan is also a sekrit Muslim. Try to keep up!!

I thought she was a Bolshevistic Jew?

127 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:16:25pm

re: #109 palomino

You're overstating the homophobia. Just look: Gay Republicans!

All clear! Actually, the GOP has been quiet about the recent ruling. Last I checked that is. Or maybe I didn't notice it yet. It's been coming from the ad-hoc religious right groups for the most part and far-right pundits.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:16:25pm

re: #34 publicityStunted

Has this been mentioned here yet? I don't recall seeing it linked before:

Attention Bigots: There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

So where are all the protests against this unpatriotic, un-American, heart-stabbing place? 9_9

"The Muslins have already invaded that city you call godless yet love because terrorism happened there! "

LOL!!!

129 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:16:30pm

Watching Rick Sanchez on CNN right now and it appears that he's going to cover the Shrieking Harpy's anti-mosque ads she's shilling on today's program.

130 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:16:47pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops
Is Stevens confirmed dead? I've read conflicting reports.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:02pm

re: #35 cliffster

I miss Bush.

You know what's weird? I miss Bush.

132 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:04pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

Kagan is also a sekrit Muslim. Try to keep up!!

She didn't celebrate Christmas!!

133 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:04pm

re: #121 Thanos

I see you've bit Spencer's contra constitutional lines fully, and the hook and sinker are hanging out your petulant clash of civilizations bunghole. You speak of foreigners but are willing to buy this twaddle from a foreign lobbyist who's here to further the Orthodox Pan Serbian lobby's aims over US interests.

Those sentences took some unpacking, but boy was it worth it.

134 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:24pm

re: #74 ShaunP

IMO, opposition is coming in three forms: 1) there are people that honestly don't see that the argument is bigoted at its base (likely most), 2) bigots pushing the agenda (Geller/Spencer) and 3) people who see that the mosque itself isn't an issue, but feel that in order to keep the bigots in their little hidey holes, it's bad for muslim relations (IMO, that is Raza's segment)...

I have to disagree with that last part, based on this statement by Raza:

The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

I personally "know" no such thing. She's feeding the Geller meme and trying to make it sound legit by tossing around words like "fitna".

135 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:33pm

re: #130 tradewind

Is Stevens confirmed dead? I've read conflicting reports.

yes confirmed a few minutes ago

136 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:42pm

re: #129 RadicalModerate
ZOMG!11!!
CNN has joined teh Faux!
Another news outlet down the tubes.

137 Beauzeaux  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:17:46pm

This reminds me of the period of the Vietnam war when the intellectual ancestors of these same people said that of course protesters had freedom of speech, they just shouldn't use it.

138 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:18:09pm

re: #124 Charles

Then why can't you list some of the "valid" objections?

The only valid objection I've ever heard was "I liked it better when it was Burlington coat factory because I didn't have to go as far to shop." That's it. All the rest was twaddle.

139 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:18:33pm

re: #95 tradewind

What's a sign of weakness is not living up to our own values and instead being just as bad as those we denounce. If we do not live up to our own ideals as a nation then we have no place telling others they should be like us. It's, in a word, childish.

140 researchok  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #125 tradewind

Good point. I would think you'd concede the same is true of Romney, etc.

I do.

The merit of any opinion is determined by the ideas voiced- not by who voiced the opinion.

141 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:19:33pm

I've been hearing a lot of carping (some of it from people I would think would know better) about what "the people" and "the voters" and "the majority" say and how this particular Park51 project, and the Prop 8 ruling go against 'democracy'...

Do people not understand the point of the constitution in this country? Really? People actually think 2 wolves and sheep voting on what to have for dinner is a good idea?

142 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:19:40pm

And, BTW, I am a Christian of some sort, but believe the church weakens itself by focusing on politics and not the job at hand.

I mean, really, it seems religious organization spend time fighting silly things instead of getting out and doing the Lord's work.

Not that some don't, but it seems we (Christians) was an inordinate amount of time worrying about things in politics.

Some day, when politics and religion get so entwined that one cannot live without the other, look out.

I want a separation of church and state for the health of the CHURCH.

Sorry for rambling. I just thought I should make myself clear as to where I am coming from.

143 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:19:46pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

yes confirmed a few minutes ago

What a tragedy. I'm glad there were survivors.

144 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:20:16pm

This is the story I'm referring to:

[Link: www.wpix.com...]

145 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:20:41pm
146 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:20:58pm

re: #119 captdiggs

Actually, Ms Raza's piece says that the choice of location was selected as a deliberate provocation.

Then what better plan than to deny them a PR coup, celebrate the mosque and community center and show the world Islam and a constitutional government can live peacefully together.

The fact that an Imam may be politically motivated or a gadfly does not change the 1st Amendment rights of his congregation one bit. If we removed the constitutional rights of every scheming scoundrel we would be left without a congress.

147 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:03pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

You know what's weird? I miss Bush.

wow :) that was the first comment I read...

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:08pm

re: #39 Spare O'Lake

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

It's called the First Amendment.

We do not send elected officials to try to change people's minds about their property rights based on a popular vote.

There are good reasons for this. Neighborhood covenants about not selling to black families come to mind.

Last night, BTW, I had a long talk with my mother about the Cordoba House project. My mother is by no means starry-eyed about Muslims, but what she connected to in the story is that every synagogue in our area that has remodeled or built has met with considerable resistance, some of it, she feels, quite anti-Semitic.

Should the big reform synagogue in Berkeley have been denied building permits, or should the mayor have tried to get them to 'compromise' because people in the neighborhood opposed a big synagogue building project?

149 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:13pm

re: #124 Charles
I have. But what is valid to one person is bunk to another, which is the way things work in a free society, and as I said, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I'm out of it.

150 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:47pm

re: #134 CuriousLurker

What an idiot. I'm sure Geller and her cohorts will be oh so tolerant of other mosques that are yet to be built.

I wonder what excuse Raheel Raza will use then.

151 Mayor of Shadyville  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:48pm

I became a firefighter in NJ in 2003. That's because I always thought about being one, and I was unsure of my future in general until September 11, 2001.
I began taking the necessary classes to put myself in the position to become the FF/EMT-B I became at the age of 25. 7 years later I've never been happier, I am married with a 2 year old and one on the way.
I consider myself conservative, no matter how negative the connotation.

My questions:
1. Who owns the land, if it's publicly owned land, should the government not have a say on whether it would be a great thing for lower Manhattan to have such a facility?
THE MAIN QUESTION
2. Does the organization that is building this facility openly denounce Islamic terror, more specifically Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Hamas.
Particularly groups declared terrrorist organizations that either claimed responsibility for, or gave their heartfelt thanks and admiration for the perpetrators of the heinous act of war committed so close to its doors.

I really don't think this prerequisite is unfair and I particularly would like to see it in writing on the front door of the building.

And I love the gay bar next door thing, would never happen, but man that would make one hell of a block; a gay bar, an Islamic community center, and a large gaping hole of a mass grave? Would the duck boat tours swing down that street?

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:48pm

re: #43 JasonA

I don't think freedom of religion is subject to majority rule. Just a wild shot in the the dark...

Neither are property rights.

153 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:21:50pm

re: #123 Dreggas
Really......have you seen where single quotes from this website end up!

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:23:01pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

I'm a flaming liberal, and lately, I miss Bush, because he was able to keep the right placated in a way nobody else can. Obama could say the same exact thing, and he'd be ignored or even derided for saying these things.

Can you imagine the wingnut venom if Obama made such a speech? Godalmighty.

I didn't realize how much Bush was getting away with, because I didn't realize at the time how crazy the wingnuts were. I just thought the President was taking care of President business.

155 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:23:09pm

re: #153 Big Steve

Really...have you seen where single quotes from this website end up!

I know it isn't Facebook. That place has some terrible teabaggers on it. It never ceases to amaze me that people will say the things they do in such a non-anonymous place.

156 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:23:20pm

re: #145 Dreggas

OT: Uh-oh... looks like one of Newt's wives is talking

eh?

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:12pm

re: #53 Spare O'Lake

Pay attention please, the Dem Governor said "with the consent of the developers". Now what is wrong with a consensual compromise?

Yes, after we've protested, threatened, mocked, screamed, and run news stories, we will sit down with you and work out a 'consensual compromise'.

What complete BS.

158 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:20pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

yes confirmed a few minutes ago

Sean O'Keefe was also on board. Former NASA administrator. Reading now that he has survived along with his son.

Image: 103678main_aok_hires.jpg

159 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:34pm

re: #149 tradewind

I have. But what is valid to one person is bunk to another, which is the way things work in a free society, and as I said, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I'm out of it.

No, you have not. And now you're trying to just glide right out of it without ever defending your own statements.

160 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:50pm

re: #142 brownbagj
Not a bad thought.
Last week at a local parish we loaded over 150,000 meals to ship to Haiti with Stop Hunger Now!, and I never heard the word Democrat or Republican once in two days.
Saturday, I helped deliver and set up 450 window air conditioners to families who had suffered in an unusually hot summer here. No one asked me for a party ID or even a philosophy.
It was a good day.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:53pm

re: #55 captdiggs

I also noticed the sound of crickets chirping in response to that article.
I guess it's hard to call her an anti-muslim bigot, considering she is a muslim and has serious credentials in interfaith relations.

I don't think that makes her infalliable. Her opinion is interesting, but hasn't changed mine.

162 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:24:57pm

re: #136 tradewind

ZOMG!11!!
CNN has joined teh Faux!
Another news outlet down the tubes.

So you're supporting Pam Gellar's viewpoint and inflammatory ad?

Because Rick Sanchez certainly isn't.

163 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:25:09pm

re: #138 Thanos

The only valid objection I've ever heard was "I liked it better when it was Burlington coat factory because I didn't have to go as far to shop." That's it. All the rest was twaddle.


I'm sorry ma'am that rug is not for sale. Now move your butt so I can pray thank you!! /

164 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:25:14pm

Here we go.

165 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:25:34pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

One of the two parcels of land that is part of the proposed complex is owned outright by the Cordoba Initiative. The other is leased from Con Ed, but grants CI the rights to raze the building and build their own structures.

There is no government owned land involved here. It's all private property.

166 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:26:10pm

re: #164 Charles

I have my "Green Egg" grill ready to go.

167 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:26:34pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

No, it's unconstitutional for the gov't to "have a say" as it's private property.

On top of that why would they?

168 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:26:44pm

re: #162 RadicalModerate
She creeps me out . But still,
if he gives her a forum, He's Teh Guilty!
*Shakes head*

169 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:26:58pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

Listen, Slim Shady. They could publicly say they *heart* Hamas, so long as they didn't send them money, and they would still have the right to build this facility.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:27:17pm

re: #79 tradewind

Oh, sorry.
I don't believe that taking into account the sensitivities of a majority of citizens is necessarily a sign of bigotry .

You do understand that that is the precise argument used to prevent black families from moving into white neighborhoods? The same, exact one?

171 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:27:23pm

re: #160 tradewind

And you have done more good for humanity in God's name in those activities than all of the jumping up and down daily that religious/political leaders do combined for eternity.

172 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:27:27pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

2. Does the organization that is building this facility openly denounce Islamic terror, more specifically Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Hamas.

Imam Rauf is on record saying, "I am a supporter of the state of Israel."

Does that sound like a secret radical terrorist to you?

173 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:27:40pm

Conservatives: They were against Emminent Domain before they were for it.... They were for Religious Freedom until they were against it... They were for the First Amendment until they were against it...

174 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:27:56pm

I love how Conservatives are all for the gov't taking away privately-owned property. It's an eye-opener.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:28:49pm

re: #95 tradewind

When the government is financing a world tour for the project's head, to Saudi and other middle eastern countries who no doubt see this project as a sign of western weakness and capitulation ( because they would never even consider a similar deal), the government is not exactly ' staying out of it'.
We have had undeniable problems in the past with radical madrassas financed by foreign money operating in the US.

If the Saudis think religious freedom is a sign of weakness, I am very sorry for them. However, what they probably really think is a sign of weakness is our continued support of their regime no matter what the fuck they do.

176 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:29:08pm

re: #173 Thanos

Conservatives: They were against Emminent Domain before they were for it... They were for Religious Freedom until they were against it... They were for the First Amendment until they were against it...

This is what always confuses me. How can they sell 2 different messages at the same time and get away with it so easily?

177 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:29:13pm

re: #127 Gus 802

All clear! Actually, the GOP has been quiet about the recent ruling. Last I checked that is. Or maybe I didn't notice it yet. It's been coming from the ad-hoc religious right groups for the most part and far-right pundits.

Yeah, it's not 2004 anymore. I think the gop establishment may want to stay out of the issue; among other things the long term trends are very much inconsistent with a hard line anti-gay stance.

But there are still plenty of loud SoCons in the party who will likely weigh in eventually.

178 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:29:13pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist
No, I don't.
Sounds like a crap argument to me.
I remember other crap arguments about property values, etc. Nobody ever accused people who didn't want black people moving into their neighborhoods of having any sensitivities to injure.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:29:18pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Why isn't the majority of Manhattanites that support the project good enough? Them being the ones who actually live there and all. Why go off the island for opinions unless the first answer wasn't the one you were looking for?

People in Manhattan are all liberals, who don't understand about the threat Islamic terrorism poses...

Oh.

Wait.

180 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:29:36pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Now SFZ, you can't say that about our oil lords friends.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:30:09pm

re: #100 tradewind

Again, it's your opinion that opposition is based solely on bigotry. That there can be other considerations is not something you are willing to contemplate, but that doesn't mean they don't have validity.

I don't care.

The law is clear, the project goes forward.

Other considerations, especially when they dare not speak their names, are not anyone's problem.

182 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:30:09pm

re: #173 Thanos

Conservatives: They were against Emminent Domain before they were for it... They were for Religious Freedom until they were against it... They were for the First Amendment until they were against it...

I am very suspicious about Emminent Domain... its sharp on both sides.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:30:43pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

Again we see the "we should be more like the Saudis because they won't be more like us" argument.

I say we should take away the drivers' license of every woman in America until the Saudis let women drive!

184 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:30:56pm

re: #176 SinisterBen

This is what always confuses me. How can they sell 2 different messages at the same time and get away with it so easily?

It's an art that all politicians learn.

185 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:02pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

Hehe, the considers that "dare not speak their names".

:)

186 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:11pm

re: #185 erraticsphinx

*considerations

187 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:41pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist
I wouldn't waste any sympathy on Our Friends The Saudis.

188 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:45pm

re: #178 tradewind

No, I don't.
Sounds like a crap argument to me.
I remember other crap arguments about property values, etc. Nobody ever accused people who didn't want black people moving into their neighborhoods of having any sensitivities to injure.

So you aren't going to answer the question about the legit reasons? The ones you state you already laid out, but are invisible to the rest of us?

189 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:46pm

re: #174 JasonA

I love how Conservatives are all for the gov't taking away privately-owned property. It's an eye-opener.

Small government is best. Except when it comes to Islam. And gays. And abortion.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:31:51pm

re: #108 erraticsphinx

And there could be Madrassas too!

Madrassas with a pool and fitness center that are open to all faiths.

Teh horrorz.

My Jewish mother, BTW, commented that she expects frum Manhattanites will like their pool because she imagines there will be single-gender swimming times.

191 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:32:11pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

I say we should take away the drivers' license of every woman in America until the Saudis let women drive!

I will not make a joke about women drivers, no matter how much you try to bait me, missy.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:32:32pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Summer posted this yesterday, and I think it deserves to be read by everyone here.

Very interesting Slate article on the Cordoba House from Mr. Hitchens:

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Hitchens sees problems with the mosque/community center and its somewhat weaselly founder, but none that would prevent its construction, and he sees far bigger problems with the "patriotic" opponents who would jettison the First Amendment to stop it.

Yeah. Basically. Bingo.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:32:51pm

re: #119 captdiggs

Actually, Ms Raza's piece says that the choice of location was selected as a deliberate provocation.

On what basis does she believe that?

194 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:32:53pm

I suppose I should finally weigh in on this subject..Cause I haven't so far..
I got to go to NYC when I was very young...The one thing that sticks in my memory was all the Churches and beautiful Cathedrals on the Ave. of Americas..
I was stunned how majestic they were...Every Religion is represented...
Are the Muslims not allowed to be represented and worship God because of some AQ terrorists? Is this what it has come down to? This is not a sensitivity issue at all.. There is something much deeper in play here...
I don't like it

195 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:32:53pm

re: #176 SinisterBen

This is what always confuses me. How can they sell 2 different messages at the same time and get away with it so easily?

Their base is so stupid and/or dishonest they don't see a conflict.

196 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:33:09pm

re: #191 JasonA

I will not make a joke about women drivers, no matter how much you try to bait me, missy.

You don't want to steer into that lane. It could turn around and hit you at any moment.//

197 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:33:31pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I foresee screams and wails of "Single gender swimming times? Sharrriiiiahhhhhhhh!".

From the usual suspects.

198 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:33:32pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist
I guess you missed the part where I didn't care so much, either.
My comments were related to the people in question and their opinions rather than the project.
It's the ultimate NIMBY.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:33:40pm

re: #126 SinisterBen

I thought she was a Bolshevistic Jew?

These days, it's almost the same thing.

I know, doesn't make much sense to me, either.

200 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:33:47pm

Here's a hint for those trying to defend politicians grandstanding against this mosque -- if they actually tried to use the power of gov't to stop it they would get wasted, defenestrated, fricasseed and shish ka bobbed in court. They know it too, they are just demagogues grandstanding on bigotry.

201 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:34:11pm

Just reported on CNN - From Reuters: Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe is one of the survivors of the plane crash in Alaska that claimed the life of former Sen. Stevens.

202 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:34:55pm

re: #194 HoosierHoops


It's a wedge issue and the Republicans think they can rally enough fear of dark people and muslims to get an edge in the elections. If they didn't think they could use this for political gain, then there wouldn't be any debate and/or manufactured outrage over the Park 51/Cordoba House project.

203 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:35:08pm

re: #90 Charles

I agree that there are some people who may be unaware that their opposition to the mosque is based on prejudice, either because they're ignorant about the facts or because they don't care about the facts. But I'm not sure that's a valid excuse. If you don't know the facts, continuing to spout an ignorant position is at best irresponsible, at worst an indication of, yes, bigotry.

Everyone I know who is aware of Park51, and expressed opposition to it is completely ignorant on the facts behind it. It can be argued they aren't bigots but are irresponsible, but the people giving them bogus information are definitely bigots. If after those in opposition are given the facts, they are still against it, then they aren't simply ignorant and irresponsible anymore they are flat out bigots. I believe most of them probably would fall into that bigot category if given the facts. Luckily they have no say in it.

204 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:35:25pm

re: #197 erraticsphinx

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I foresee screams and wails of "Single gender swimming times? Sharrriiiahhh!".

From the usual suspects.

/how ironic it would be if they were sued for gender discrimination...

205 blueraven  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:35:56pm

re: #156 cliffster

eh?

Here in Esquire magazine
Newt Gingrich: The Indispensable Republican

In the twelve years since he resigned in defeat and disgrace, he has been carefully plotting his return to power. As 2012 approaches, he has raised as much money as all of his potential rivals combined and sits atop the polls for the Republican presidential nomination. But just who is Newton Leroy Gingrich, really? An epic and bizarre story of American power in an unsettled age....

Read more: [Link: www.esquire.com...]


[Link: www.esquire.com...]

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:09pm

re: #138 Thanos

The only valid objection I've ever heard was "I liked it better when it was Burlington coat factory because I didn't have to go as far to shop." That's it. All the rest was twaddle.

Yeah, well, I liked having the Mervyn's at the old Sears building, but they went out of business...

207 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:18pm

I hate when folks who have no conception of the size and scope of Ground Zero, the 9/11 attacks, and what life is like in Lower Manhattan presume to know better than the locals as to what is supposed to go here.

That goes for the media talking heads too. And I include those who know but are purposefully lying about the project (Geller and her ilk) and those who are quick to run a headline but don't know enough about the project and so lump it in with Ground Zero.

Close but no cigar. It isn't in Ground Zero. It's nearby. They have the right to build. They've gotten nearly all the authorizations and jumped through nearly all the required hoops.

They'll have to come up with the financing, and then they can proceed with demolition and construction there.

The fear, hatred, and spewage is based on the premise that this will be the Islamic sign of victory over Ground Zero, even as the CI is the Sufi strain of Islam (and would be considered apostates by OBL and the al Qaeda Salafist/Wahabis).

208 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:26pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate

Just reported on CNN - From Reuters: Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe is one of the survivors of the plane crash in Alaska that claimed the life of former Sen. Stevens.

Good news there, although I was sorrowed to hear about Ted Stevens.

209 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:34pm

re: #204 brookly red

Hmm, I'd have to look up the legal background on that. But it would be interesting.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:38pm

re: #141 ArchangelMichael

I've been hearing a lot of carping (some of it from people I would think would know better) about what "the people" and "the voters" and "the majority" say and how this particular Park51 project, and the Prop 8 ruling go against 'democracy'...

Do people not understand the point of the constitution in this country? Really? People actually think 2 wolves and sheep voting on what to have for dinner is a good idea?

As long as they think they're wolves. Yes.

211 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:40pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate
The single biggest occupational hazard of rock stars and politicians: private aircraft.

212 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:41pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate

Just reported on CNN - From Reuters: Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe is one of the survivors of the plane crash in Alaska that claimed the life of former Sen. Stevens.

I didn't know there were survivors...that's good news. Peace to the Stevens family, by the way (I know the Senator was mocked mercilessly for his internet/tubes/not a truck comment while he was alive, by myself as well.)

213 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:45pm

re: #169 JasonA

Listen, Slim Shady. They could publicly say they *heart* Hamas, so long as they didn't send them money, and they would still have the right to build this facility.

Some people just don't get that the right to hold repulsive views is protected.

214 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:36:45pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

On what basis does she believe that?

She says "we Muslims know" (insert scary music). Funny, but I don't remember electing her to speak for me and I "know" no such thing.

215 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:37:38pm

Why worry about one mosque when every Walmart is an affront to aesthetics.

216 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:37:39pm

re: #194 HoosierHoops

I suppose I should finally weigh in on this subject..Cause I haven't so far..
I got to go to NYC when I was very young...The one thing that sticks in my memory was all the Churches and beautiful Cathedrals on the Ave. of Americas..
I was stunned how majestic they were...Every Religion is represented...
Are the Muslims not allowed to be represented and worship God because of some AQ terrorists? Is this what it has come down to? This is not a sensitivity issue at all.. There is something much deeper in play here...
I don't like it

It is something deeper, and it would not be the first time a religion was persecuted in the United States for being un-American.

It's insidious, and it's happened before.

217 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:37:42pm

re: #209 erraticsphinx

Hmm, I'd have to look up the legal background on that. But it would be interesting.

I think there is no standing, but don't rule anything out here...

218 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:37:59pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

What does your being a firefighter have to do with anything? Does it automagically make your heroic self less likely to hold the political opinions of an idiot child?

Seemingly not.

219 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:38:12pm

re: #207 lawhawk

They'll have to come up with the financing


That should be interesting.

220 erraticsphinx  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:38:13pm

re: #214 CuriousLurker

You should be getting her memos at the weekly Taqqiya Training/Fitna making workshops.

/

221 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:38:32pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

People in Manhattan are all liberals, who don't understand about the threat Islamic terrorism poses...

Oh.

Wait.

Yes, New Yorkers need Alabamans and Oklahomans (you know, real Americans) to save them from themselves.
/

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:38:59pm

re: #150 erraticsphinx

What an idiot. I'm sure Geller and her cohorts will be oh so tolerant of other mosques that are yet to be built.

I wonder what excuse Raheel Raza will use then.

Yeah, given the protests against Murfreesboro and Temecula mosques going on simultaneously, I'm having a hard time believing that this is just about the location.

BTW, Tennesseans, is it true that most of the Muslim community in TN are Iraqi Kurds? Someone was saying.

223 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:39:17pm

re: #220 erraticsphinx

You should be getting her memos at the weekly Taqqiya Training/Fitna making workshops.

/

LOL, I can hardly wait.

224 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:39:38pm

re: #212 darthstar

I didn't know there were survivors...that's good news. Peace to the Stevens family, by the way (I know the Senator was mocked mercilessly for his internet/tubes/not a truck comment while he was alive, by myself as well.)

The poor guy. He was more or less correct in his analogy, but just saying "the internet is a series of tubes" will inevitably get you mocked for all eternity, just because it's funny.

I hope his family is ok, considering.

225 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:40:19pm

re: #215 Big Steve

Why worry about one mosque when every Walmart is an affront to aesthetics.

Never mind the damage a WalMart does to a local economy. Sure, they create a bunch of minimum wage jobs, but those jobs replace small businesses that had, quite frequently, paid better wages to their employees...hardware stores, grocery stores, pet food stores, clothing stores...all independently owned and operated, and the money stayed local. Now that money goes to some asshole in Arkansas.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:41:13pm

re: #169 JasonA

Listen, Slim Shady. They could publicly say they *heart* Hamas, so long as they didn't send them money, and they would still have the right to build this facility.

I would be less likely to swim in their pool.

227 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:41:56pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

I would be less likely to swim in their pool.

But more likely to pee in it?

228 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:41:58pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

I would be less likely to swim in their pool.

You could still go and pee in it.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:42:04pm

re: #172 Charles

Imam Rauf is on record saying, "I am a supporter of the state of Israel."

Does that sound like a secret radical terrorist to you?

Everyone sing it with me! To the tune of "Tradition" from Fiddler on the Roof!

"Taqqiyaaaaaaaah! Taqqiyah!"

///

230 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:42:16pm

re: #227 DaddyG

But more likely to pee in it?

Two effin' seconds...

231 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:42:57pm

re: #230 JasonA

Two effin' seconds...


HA! I hae less self restraint than you do!! (My mother is doubtless proud of me.) /

232 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:14pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Everyone sing it with me! To the tune of "Tradition" from Fiddler on the Roof!

"Taqqiyaaah! Taqqiyah!"

///

I prefer "Taqiyaaa... I just met a girl named Taqiiiyaaa..."

233 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:17pm

re: #224 Fozzie Bear

The poor guy. He was more or less correct in his analogy, but just saying "the internet is a series of tubes" will inevitably get you mocked for all eternity, just because it's funny.

I hope his family is ok, considering.

His wife was killed in a plane crash, which he survived.
From wiki:

On December 4, 1978, the crash of a Learjet 25C at Anchorage International Airport killed five people. Ted Stevens survived; his wife, Ann, did not.
234 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:21pm

re: #205 blueraven

Read more: [Link: www.esquire.com...]

[Link: www.esquire.com...]

Gingrich has raised that much more than Palin? Is it possible the SarahPAC figures aren't included in this comparison. I think her PAC has been a huge money maker. After all, a lot of Republicans want an Obama of their own.

235 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:27pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, in my city, the largest in TN,
converts to Islam make up the largest number.
I don't know about the rest of the state.
Interestingly, there's a large Lebanese-American community, but they are not predominately muslim,,, in fact, most are Roman Catholic and very devout.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:30pm

re: #178 tradewind

No, I don't.
Sounds like a crap argument to me.
I remember other crap arguments about property values, etc. Nobody ever accused people who didn't want black people moving into their neighborhoods of having any sensitivities to injure.

Yes, they did. And people talked about 'issues' and 'compromises' and 'the children', and 'democracy'.

237 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:43:40pm

re: #230 JasonA

Two effin' seconds...


And...I believe Daddy G is older than you!!
Neener neener.......!
Hi everyone.............

238 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:13pm

These are the glory days for Robert Spencer and his Harpy. This is what they've assiduously worked for for nearly ten years: turning Americans against each other based on religious differences, and profiting handsomely in the process.

Pukes.

239 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:27pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
I guess I missed that one. Or maybe it wasn't a southern thing.

240 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:30pm

Geller and Yerushalmi are going to be allowed to put their misleading anti-Cordoba billboard on MTA buses. And they're using the First Amendment to justify it -- the same amendment that they deny applies to Muslims.

Warning: this video contains an appearance of the shrieking harpy, and may not be human-safe.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:39pm

re: #187 tradewind

I wouldn't waste any sympathy on Our Friends The Saudis.

I wouldn't waste any time worrying what they think about the freedoms guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution.

242 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:47pm

re: #225 darthstar

Never mind the damage a WalMart does to a local economy. Sure, they create a bunch of minimum wage jobs, but those jobs replace small businesses that had, quite frequently, paid better wages to their employees...hardware stores, grocery stores, pet food stores, clothing stores...all independently owned and operated, and the money stayed local. Now that money goes to some asshole in Arkansas.

THE INVISIBLE HAND CAN ONLY DO GOOD. IT IS OUR ANGEL IN DARK TIMES. MAY THE MARKET BLESS US AND KEEP US, AMEN.

243 dbe928  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:44:49pm

I think you go too far when you call people with a different opinion "bigoted." Some of them may be, but not all, and there are real differences about the idea of the mosque near Ground Zero among people of all political persuasions. To focus only on Republicans seems wrong.
Would you call Muslims who oppose the mosque bigoted? What about the woman who wrote the following in the Ottawa Citizen yesterday? It seems valid to me:

The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?

Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?

There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

It's a repugnant thought that $100 million would be brought into the United States rather than be directed at dying and needy Muslims in Darfur or Pakistan.

Let's not forget that a mosque is an exclusive place of worship for Muslims and not an inviting community centre. Most Americans are wary of mosques due to the hard core rhetoric that is used in pulpits. And rightly so. As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.

The Koran implores Muslims to speak the truth, even if it hurts the one who utters the truth. Today we speak the truth, knowing very well Muslims have forgotten this crucial injunction from Allah.

If this mosque does get built, it will forever be a lightning rod for those who have little room for Muslims or Islam in the U.S. We simply cannot understand why on Earth the traditional leadership of America's Muslims would not realize their folly and back out in an act of goodwill.

As for those teary-eyed, bleeding-heart liberals such as New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and much of the media, who are blind to the Islamist agenda in North America, we understand their goodwill.

Unfortunately for us, their stand is based on ignorance and guilt, and they will never in their lives have to face the tyranny of Islamism that targets, kills and maims Muslims worldwide, and is using liberalism itself to destroy liberal secular democratic societies from within.

Read more: [Link: www.ottawacitizen.com...]

244 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:45:00pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Everyone sing it with me! To the tune of "Tradition" from Fiddler on the Roof!

"Taqqiyaaah! Taqqiyah!"

///

ROFL!! Man, you're so on a roll today. I wish we could have your mom here too.

245 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:45:09pm

re: #211 tradewind

The single biggest occupational hazard of rock stars and politicians: private aircraft.

True for the pols, but for rock stars I think it might be heroin, alcohol, cocaine and pills.

246 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:45:32pm

re: #238 Cato the Elder

These are the glory days for Robert Spencer and his Harpy. This is what they've assiduously worked for for nearly ten years: turning Americans against each other based on religious differences, and profiting handsomely in the process.

Pukes.


It is a time honored American tradition. There is no shortage of "ministries" that profit from fear mongering and denegrating the beliefs of others.

247 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:45:45pm

re: #233 darthstar

Holy crap what an incredibly unlucky family.

248 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:45:53pm

This topic wakes up the sleepers every time.

249 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:03pm

Oh jeez. There's Raheel Raza again.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:15pm

re: #197 erraticsphinx

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I foresee screams and wails of "Single gender swimming times? Sharrriiiahhh!".

From the usual suspects.

Undoubtedly. Although we had those at the JCC when I was a kid, and may still.

Meanwhile, Orthodox lady stockbrokers will be able to enjoy a modest swim.

251 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:28pm

re: #243 dbe928

Welcome, hatchling.

Oh, wait. 2008?

Nevermind.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:38pm

re: #198 tradewind

I guess you missed the part where I didn't care so much, either.
My comments were related to the people in question and their opinions rather than the project.
It's the ultimate NIMBY.

No it isn't. The people in the neighborhood support the project.

253 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:42pm

re: #243 dbe928

Zzzzzzzz.

254 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:50pm

Good grief.
Bizzaro!

255 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:46:54pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

I would be less likely to swim in their pool.

Oddly enough I am dealing with the very issue of a moslem young lady on the competetive swim team I am the president of. The state of Texas as has most other states have restricted those super suits of a few years back and for female swimmers their suit cannot cover the arms and cannot go past the knee. We have one girl, good swimmer, but moslem so she wears a shirt and long pants to swim. What she wears is clearly a hindrance to her swimming and is in no way helping her and pretty much weights her down. However an official from another team disqualified her last week at a meet for improper gear.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:47:01pm

re: #201 RadicalModerate

Just reported on CNN - From Reuters: Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe is one of the survivors of the plane crash in Alaska that claimed the life of former Sen. Stevens.

I must check in on Mudflats today.

257 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:47:10pm

re: #251 wrenchwench

Welcome, hatchling.

Oh, wait. 2008?

Nevermind.

Long gestation period.

258 Mich-again  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:47:34pm

One thing, the Manhattan Mosque won't be the tallest building around. It will be dwarfed by the Manahattan skyline, lost among hundreds of other buildings.

259 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:48:05pm

re: #243 dbe928

You don't have to like the mosque. However, attempting to stop it from being build, sans any rational basis, is pure bigotry.

260 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:48:07pm

re: #258 Mich-again

One thing, the Manhattan Mosque won't be the tallest building around. It will be dwarfed by the Manahattan skyline, lost among hundreds of other buildings.

but HUGE in the eyes of the fearful.

261 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:49:08pm

re: #245 palomino

True for the pols, but for rock stars I think it might be heroin, alcohol, cocaine and pills.

I think the biggest hazard for pols is Texans.

262 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:49:19pm

re: #39 Spare O'Lake

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

I can appreciate the sore spot this has for New Yorkers. That said, they'll need to come to terms with the building of the center because as others have pointed out again and again, there exists no reason besides discomfort, why it should not be built.

263 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:49:41pm

re: #258 Mich-again

One thing, the Manhattan Mosque won't be the tallest building around. It will be dwarfed by the Manahattan skyline, lost among hundreds of other buildings.


Go high rise!

264 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:49:49pm

re: #247 Fozzie Bear
It's tragic, but I'm telling ya.... it's not bad luck, it's the bad odds against anyone who spends a lot of time on various random private aircraft.

265 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:50:07pm

re: #249 Gus 802

Oh jeez. There's Raheel Raza again.

It won't be the last time.

266 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:50:16pm

re: #214 CuriousLurker

She says "we Muslims know" (insert scary music). Funny, but I don't remember electing her to speak for me and I "know" no such thing.

Who knew one of the Muslim super powers is actually hive-mind communication?

267 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:51:00pm

re: #266 SinisterBen

Who knew one of the Muslim super powers is actually hive-mind communication?

I thought the Borg were Swedish???

268 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:51:14pm

re: #245 palomino
Heck, sometimes it's a combination: Ricky Nelson.

269 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:51:24pm

re: #258 Mich-again

One thing, the Manhattan Mosque won't be the tallest building around. It will be dwarfed by the Manahattan skyline, lost among hundreds of other buildings.

ZOMG there's going to be 15,000 ft tall minarets and a 400 gigawatt sound system blasting the call to prayer all the way to Boston and Philly!!!11!

/I wouldn't be surprised if someone thinks this considering the insistence on using the prefix "mega" on it.

270 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:04pm

Bigotry is about intolerance & prejudice. Belonging to the same ethnic, religious, or whatever group doesn't preclude bigotry amongst members of that group.

271 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:14pm

re: #268 tradewind

Heck, sometimes it's a combination: Ricky Nelson.

Your not insinuating that John Denver was high??
Are you.../

272 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:22pm

re: #269 ArchangelMichael

Lol i can just imagine a 400Gw sound system. It would vaporize anyone within a few miles.

273 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

get with the times, they're like the zerg.

274 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:46pm

re: #271 reloadingisnotahobby

like the rocky mountains

//

275 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:52:57pm

re: #273 Dreggas

get with the times, they're like the zerg.

ZERGRUSHOFDOOOMMMM

276 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:00pm

re: #269 ArchangelMichael Mega Mosque sounds like an awkward attempt at diversity in the next Transformers movie.

277 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:13pm

re: #248 Charles

This topic wakes up the sleepers every time.

Yep, and they all come with rolls of Spencerian TP

278 tradewind  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:16pm

re: #271 reloadingisnotahobby
I don't know about Denver. Rick Nelson's DC-3 blew up after a crack pipe caught fire./

279 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:19pm

Funny that the people who taught us all the word "taqqiya" and the concept behind it are its greatest practitioners in the United States today.

"War is deception." Why, yes, it is. Just ask the Trojans about a certain horse. Nothing specifically Muslim about lying or putting up false fronts - it was a feature of human conflict thousands of years before Muhammad was born.

Spencer and Geller both require emergency taqqiyatomies.

280 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:53:22pm

re: #275 Varek Raith

SCII was very good btw.

281 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:54:15pm

Raheel Raza!!1!1!!

International Waters!!!1!1!!

What, wrong thread?

/

282 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:54:41pm

re: #266 SinisterBen

Who knew one of the Muslim super powers is actually hive-mind communication?

Hahaha!

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:54:43pm

re: #232 JasonA

I prefer "Taqiyaaa... I just met a girl named Taqiiiyaaa..."

I thought that was for "Sharia".

Ah, hell, works either way.

284 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:55:10pm

re: #270 CuriousLurker

Bigotry is about intolerance & prejudice. Belonging to the same ethnic, religious, or whatever group doesn't preclude bigotry amongst members of that group.

Some of the most vitriolic are disenfrachised or even fringe members of a particular religion. To an extent this is understandable human nature but it does not make the bitter or marginalized members the best spokespersons for the core beliefs of any group.

285 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:55:32pm

re: #240 Charles

Geller and Yerushalmi are going to be allowed to put their misleading anti-Cordoba billboard on MTA buses. And they're using the First Amendment to justify it -- the same amendment that they deny applies to Muslims.

Warning: this video contains an appearance of the shrieking harpy, and may not be human-safe.

Nice bit of propaganda imagery used by Gellar in those MTA ads. The Cordoba building is the biggest one - even bigger than WTC- in the ad, and has the stark ivory color offset by the honkin' huge crescent emblazoned on it (which obviously isn't on the building itself, and probably never will be).

286 Mardukhai  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:55:38pm

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

287 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:56:11pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought that was for "Sharia".

Ah, hell, works either way.

/Taquia Sharia? sound likes a pre teen pop star...

288 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:56:18pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

Blahblahblahblah

289 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:56:47pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

HEY LOOK GUYS A MORON

290 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:02pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought that was for "Sharia".

Ah, hell, works either way.

You have to sing sharia to "My Sharona": M-m-m-my Sharia...

291 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:02pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.


...and this justifies throwing the 1st Amendment of the Constitution in the trash how?

292 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:03pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

Look at how stupid you are. My oh my.

293 ShaunP  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:25pm

re: #258 Mich-again

One thing, the Manhattan Mosque won't be the tallest building around. It will be dwarfed by the Manahattan skyline, lost among hundreds of other buildings.

Muslim invaders declare victory by building a huge mosque that is a thumb in the eye of the conquered nation mosque/community center that get's lost in the skyline...

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:41pm

re: #247 Fozzie Bear

Holy crap what an incredibly unlucky family.

I think if you do any travelling at all in Alaska, you spend more time in small aircraft than you should.

295 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:57:56pm

re: #285 RadicalModerate

Nice bit of propaganda imagery used by Gellar in those MTA ads. The Cordoba building is the biggest one - even bigger than WTC- in the ad, and has the stark ivory color offset by the honkin' huge crescent emblazoned on it (which obviously isn't on the building itself, and probably never will be).

Taken straight out of the playbook of "Der Völkische Beobachter".

296 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:58:29pm

Apparently someone just raised the hate bar for the shrieking harpy

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

297 Judith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:58:38pm

I think the laws on separation of religion and state and not preventing someone from building something purely on the basis religion is bigotry. I have no doubt that some of the comments coming out from those who oppose the moSque are indeed rooted in bogotry.

HOWEVER: I am very familiar with both radical Islam AND the Canadian Muslim Congress and their work to stop what they call "political Islam".

Because this group I know and trust is against the mosque for reasons like

href="[Link: www.muslimcanadiancongress.org...]>The MCC said it is opposed to the Ground-Zero mosque because many questions have gone unanswered. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

I no longer endorse the mosque but I vehemently oppose it.

I also remind those who are knee-jerk calling everyone who opposes it "bigots" to recall her words which are to not be stupid white folks who allow political/radical Islam to use political correctness against us. Radical Islam brought down those towers and killed thousands of innocents. Based on the Canadian Muslim Congress position I will not turn from the knowledge this is indeed radical/political Islam until the people putting up that mosque answer everyone of the CMC's questions.

Feel free to dismiss me and the CMC concerns by calling me a bigot now. I know I am not one.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:58:54pm

re: #255 Big Steve

Oddly enough I am dealing with the very issue of a moslem young lady on the competetive swim team I am the president of. The state of Texas as has most other states have restricted those super suits of a few years back and for female swimmers their suit cannot cover the arms and cannot go past the knee. We have one girl, good swimmer, but moslem so she wears a shirt and long pants to swim. What she wears is clearly a hindrance to her swimming and is in no way helping her and pretty much weights her down. However an official from another team disqualified her last week at a meet for improper gear.

That's tough on an athlete.

299 ShaunP  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:58:57pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

The last time that we had this discussion, your link to "proof" was him advocating for democratic elections in Sudan...

300 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:59:03pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

Prove it.

301 Mardukhai  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:59:18pm

re: #289 Fozzie Bear

HEY LOOK GUYS A MORON

I guess President Bashir is a good guy, and Dharfur is a big misunderstanding. That's Imam Rauf for you. If you think that the first amendment makes him a saint, you're the moron.

Look, guys, a jerk.

302 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 12:59:43pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

To the best of my knowledge (and perhaps other Lizards can chime in), the developers of the community center own half the lot and Con Ed owns the other half.

303 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:00:44pm

re: #301 Mardukhai

I guess President Bashir is a good guy, and Dharfur is a big misunderstanding. That's Imam Rauf for you. If you think that the first amendment makes him a saint, you're the moron.

Look, guys, a jerk.

You're smear is full of shit.
(Heh)

304 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:01:19pm

Here's an interesting take by Raheel Raza, in case you missed it.

305 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:01:37pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

If you're gonna smear, might as well use the good stuff.

306 Mardukhai  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:01:48pm

re: #300 Cato the Elder

Prove it.

I have. Over and over again. I'm tired of it. LGF used to be full of wingnuts, now it's full of moonbats.

I'm outta here.

307 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:02:02pm

re: #297 Judith

FoxNews is funded partially owned by Saudi sources.
ZOMG SHUT THEM DOWN!11!!1

308 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:02:18pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

I think if you do any travelling at all in Alaska, you spend more time in small aircraft than you should.


I've traveled some in the great state of Alaska(3 weeks) and did it all in
a 1980 Toyota 4x4,my back took a year to recover the roads and lack of seat cushion of the truck!
I would trade the experience for a Cruise to Alaska.
I saw and did more than any other Vac I've ever taken!
WEATHER in Alaska kills.
It's sudden and fierce.

309 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:02:27pm

re: #307 Varek Raith

Amen.

310 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:02:31pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

The JCC in Manhattan already has a scheduled same-sex swim periods on Sundays.

311 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:02:36pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover..

Well, that's a tall order. Let's have some some links.

312 Mayor of Shadyville  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:03:00pm

I just go by my local town and their planning board committee and city council approving whether or not someone can have a "massage parlor" or a strip club, or even the city of Ocean City, NJ, a town that does not allow liquor stores or bars. Or most towns around me only grant a certain number of "liquor licenses" for restaurants to serve alcohol.
I see these all as examples of government deciding, right or wrong, what they see as being in the best interest of their municipality.
So as far as the constitution addressing who builds on what land, I'm not real sure it's going to be clear.
I appreciate your heartfelt attacks on me, I find them delectable. I'm all for private property, and if it's privately owned land than I'm sure their won't be much of a problem building their facility on it.
I do find it newsworthy that it's being done, and if you say he declares himself a supporter of Israel I believe you.

I am a supporter of our allies, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of Israel or anyone in particular I just remember what happened to that land as I know you all do. I was 22 years old and very impressionable at the time and unfortunately the people who committed that act of war so close to where the facility is being built did it in the name of Islam.
I was ignorant at the time and remeber thinking, "the guys with the bowties that come around Atlantic City?"
I never heard of Salafist Jihadist groups and had no idea how badly they hated me, because frankly I didn't give a shiite about any sunnis.
But once those 19 hijackers boarded those planes and brought the fight to New York and Washington, I changed.
I have kept up on militant islam and it's history, know thy enemy.
I hope none of you have any enemies. I love all my liberal friends, I love all my eclectic mish moshed bunch of friends. I visit a Lebanese man almost daily and we've never spoke of religion or hate or anything even approaching that. I never even knew he was Lebanese until he told me he was going to go visit family in Beirut.

So you can accuse me of anything you want, this is an excellent forum to make yourself feel better.

I hope you certainly do not have any biases, any hidden hatreds, and I hope you love the constitution as you claim. The one thing I always tell my wife is let's make it fun, let's smile, let's enjoy every breath we have and not let pessimism get in our way.

I respect this groups right to aspire to build their facility, and I respect the other groups right to oppose it, and all the gibberish (which I humbly admit I have a ton to give to those willing) in between will be fun.

And when I mean fun, I mean all your off handed insults directed towards those who don't agree. It's fun to read you guys. I haven't posted here in a while and I actually jumped on to see if Charles had anything on that plane crash, but I'll be around now more often.
Mostly as a lizaroid morlock troll or whatever it was the big guy used to call us. BTW, does Charles post this much on all his forums now?

313 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:03:35pm

re: #40 tradewind

I don't know... but evidently the Muslim Canadian MP Raheel Raza, who is opposing the project, has some ideas. And democrats are not exactly standing up... they're saying as little as possible.
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

Last I looked, NY isn't in Canada, so what that Canadian MP might have to say about Cordoba House/Park51 doesn't mean jack shit from a policy standpoint.

314 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:03:38pm

re: #301 Mardukhai

I guess President Bashir is a good guy, and Dharfur is a big misunderstanding. That's Imam Rauf for you. If you think that the first amendment makes him a saint, you're the moron.

Look, guys, a jerk.

I most certainly AM a jerk.

However, my rather carefully-crafted point stands. You are a fucking moron. Would you care to substantiate any of your claims with evidence?

315 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:04:52pm

re: #261 Fozzie Bear

I think the biggest hazard for pols is Texans.

Them's fighting words, Fozzie. I was hatched and raised in Texas. Pistols at dawn.
/

316 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:04:55pm

re: #296 Thanos

Apparently someone just raised the hate bar for the shrieking harpy

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

From the article:

AFDI board member John Joseph Jay recently has posted a series of truly vicious anti-Muslim rants — apparently without the benefit of a capital letter function on his computer. “if islam kills non-believers as a matter of religious doctrine, then why should muslims expect to be free of retribution in the name of those islam kills?” he wrote. “why should muslims get a free pass? if it is right for muslims to kill non-believers, then why is it no less right for the rest of us to kill muslims?”

Holy crap.

317 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:05:00pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

I have. Over and over again. I'm tired of it. LGF used to be full of wingnuts, now it's full of moonbats.

I'm outta here.

And so, a stalker was born.

318 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:05:06pm

Oh, good grief.

319 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:05:09pm

re: #260 darthstar

And the way that bus ad is portraying the building, it is meant to harp on those very fears - an outsized representation of the building compared with the rest of Ground Zero (and the Twin Towers) even when the 13 story community center will not even be the tallest on the block (the building across the street is), and the other buildings between it and Ground Zero are taller.

320 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:05:40pm

re: #312 Mayor of Shadyville

Is this the first account you've registered at LGF?

321 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:05:43pm

re: #312 Mayor of Shadyville

You think you have a case, take it to court putz. See how it goes.

322 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:06:12pm

re: #320 Charles

Is this the first account you've registered at LGF?

Whoopsie daisy!

323 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:07:25pm

re: #284 DaddyG

Some of the most vitriolic are disenfrachised or even fringe members of a particular religion. To an extent this is understandable human nature but it does not make the bitter or marginalized members the best spokespersons for the core beliefs of any group.

Exactly. And I heartily resent her claiming to do so when she says "we Muslims" followed by a Gellerism.

324 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:07:26pm

re: #297 Judith

Based on the Canadian Muslim Congress position I will not turn from the knowledge this is indeed radical/political Islam until the people putting up that mosque answer everyone [sic] of the CMC's questions.

Feel free to dismiss me and the CMC concerns by calling me a bigot now. I know I am not one.

If every church or synagogue were subjected to similar scrutiny for its sources of funding and its potential connection to crazy-ass belief systems or wacko pastors or rabbis who espouse supremacist or eliminationist or supercessionist ideas, I have a feeling very would ever again be built.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:07:32pm

re: #301 Mardukhai

I guess President Bashir is a good guy, and Dharfur is a big misunderstanding. That's Imam Rauf for you. If you think that the first amendment makes him a saint, you're the moron.

Look, guys, a jerk.

1. I have no idea if Imam Rauf is a saint or not. You don't have to be a saint to build a mosque in NYC, you just need permission from the zoning committeee.

2. You have never actually given us any proof that Rauf backs Bashir in any way. If you can't make your case, we will tend to dismiss you when you come with it again.

326 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:07:36pm

re: #320 Charles

Sizzle, sizzle.....

327 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:08:27pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

Supporting the first amendment, equal protection, and *gasp* PRIVATE PROPERTY rights makes you a moonbat now?

328 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:08:38pm

re: #301 Mardukhai

I guess President Bashir is a good guy, and Dharfur is a big misunderstanding. That's Imam Rauf for you. If you think that the first amendment makes him a saint, you're the moron.

Look, guys, a jerk.

If you think the First Amendment requires people to be saints before they can build churches, you're an even bigger moron than you seemed at first.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:09:29pm

re: #312 Mayor of Shadyville

I just go by my local town and their planning board committee and city council approving whether or not someone can have a "massage parlor" or a strip club, or even the city of Ocean City, NJ, a town that does not allow liquor stores or bars. Or most towns around me only grant a certain number of "liquor licenses" for restaurants to serve alcohol.
I see these all as examples of government deciding, right or wrong, what they see as being in the best interest of their municipality.
So as far as the constitution addressing who builds on what land, I'm not real sure it's going to be clear.

I can barely make out what the hell you are saying, but you do need to understand that the local government bodies have spoken, and approved this project.

330 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:09:35pm

re: #327 ArchangelMichael

Supporting the first amendment, equal protection, and *gasp* PRIVATE PROPERTY rights makes you a moonbat now?

...And here I thought I was a Lesbian...........

331 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:09:49pm

re: #268 tradewind

Heck, sometimes it's a combination: Ricky Nelson.

His plane crashed in a tiny town in northeast TX where my grandparents used to live. No one would have ever heard of DeKalb had it not been for that plane crash.

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:09:58pm

re: #313 talon_262

Last I looked, NY isn't in Canada, so what that Canadian MP might have to say about Cordoba House/Park51 doesn't mean jack shit from a policy standpoint.

But she's a Muslim! So she's not a bigot! And...something!

333 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:10:12pm

re: #312 Mayor of Shadyville

Zoning rules can limit the types of construction and the businesses therein. It can be for residential, commercial, manufacturing, mixed use, etc. It can zone for setbacks, height restrictions, etc.

This proposal conforms to the existing zoning. It has gotten the approvals to date, and awaits final approval by the City Council before the permits can be pulled and construction can begin once financing is arranged.

This isn't the situation of trying to get a liquor license because we don't license houses of worship. Sometimes houses of worship are restricted by zoning, but again - this proposal conforms to zoning.

And as I've already posted above - the NYS Constitution is quite clear. The group has the right to build there.

334 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:10:45pm

re: #327 ArchangelMichael

Supporting the first amendment, equal protection, and *gasp* PRIVATE PROPERTY rights makes you a moonbat now?

Up is down, left is right, conservatives want the government to have all kinds of control over private property rights.

Welcome to crazyland.

335 Judith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:10:50pm

talon 262 knee jerk reaction and your display of ignorance is SO appalling! Why don't you shut up and stop embarassing yourself and get your facts straight before posting? I suggest you go and read what the Canadian Muslim Congress, who this woman is and what she says BEFORE opening your mouth.

For the record - She is not an MP nor does Canada have a congress.

Sheesh shaking my head in dismay at the display of complete and utter ignorance.

And I am feeling like Marduhai right now. This no longer feels like a place for reasoned careful consideration of facts. It feels like a place for knee jerk name calling of anyone who disagrees with you.

336 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:11:35pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

I have. Over and over again. I'm tired of it. LGF used to be full of wingnuts, now it's full of moonbats.

I'm outta here.

Brave Sir Robin

337 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:11:35pm

re: #296 Thanos

Apparently someone just raised the hate bar for the shrieking harpy

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

“if islam kills non-believers as a matter of religious doctrine, then why should muslims expect to be free of retribution in the name of those islam kills?” - AFDI board member John Joseph Jay

This sounds like justification and prelude to genocide.

338 Judith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:11:50pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

She is not JUST a Muslim, she is a board member of a group of Muslims who are dedicated to stopping the kind of crap that caused 9/11 in the first place.

339 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:12:24pm

re: #337 DaddyG

“if islam kills non-believers as a matter of religious doctrine, then why should muslims expect to be free of retribution in the name of those islam kills?” - AFDI board member John Joseph Jay

This sounds like justification and prelude to genocide.

It is.

What a dear, dear, man.

Feh.

340 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:12:27pm

re: #304 cliffster

Here's an interesting take by Raheel Raza, in case you missed it.

Sleep through the thread, did we?

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:12:37pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

Oh shit, you've been following it for years, are you like a secret agent or something?

342 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:12:49pm

re: #338 Judith

WTF does this Mosque have to do with 9/11?

343 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:13:27pm

re: #338 Judith

She is not JUST a Muslim, she is a board member of a group of Muslims who are dedicated to stopping the kind of crap that caused 9/11 in the first place.

So she is a super Muslim?
Does she have other super powers than just the Hive-Mind thing?

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:13:53pm

re: #338 Judith

She is not JUST a Muslim, she is a board member of a group of Muslims who are dedicated to stopping the kind of crap that caused 9/11 in the first place.

That's nice.

Seriously, that's nice.

But it doesn't change the basic situation we have on our hands here, which is that this project is approved, and there's no reason for people to be running around like chickens freaking out over it.

345 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:05pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

I have. Over and over again. I'm tired of it. LGF used to be full of wingnuts, now it's full of moonbats.

I'm outta here.

Damn, man, we're all gonna miss your insights so much. Come back, you're really advancing the cause of half-assed douchebag bigotry.

346 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:11pm

re: #340 Cato the Elder

Sleep through the thread, did we?

heh, nope. Betcha didn't read the article I linked

347 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:18pm

re: #343 SinisterBen

So she is a super Muslim?
Does she have other super powers than just the Hive-Mind thing?

Imam Kerrigan?

348 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:37pm

re: #312 Mayor of Shadyville

You still don't know whether your Lebanese friend is Muslim or not, apparently.

But I bet you remind him that you're a heroic firefighter every time you meet.

Your borrowed glory and sense of entitlement to some kind of post-9/11 expertise would be risible if it wasn't so pathetic.

349 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:45pm

You know, I used to come to this site all the time to bash liberals for being kooky discuss issues important to me. But nowadays, you have spent too much time giving just criticism to the far-right that I have no way of defending, mostly because they are indefensable criticizing conservatives.

I am leaving now because I have a hard time looking a the shit coming from my own side so it is easier to just bail because I no longer like the focus of this blog.

Good bye. I will never return unless stalking or until I register another account and pretend to be someone else.

350 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:14:46pm

re: #346 cliffster

heh, nope. Betcha didn't read the article I linked

I did. You're a bad man.

351 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:15:07pm

re: #335 Judith

We don't care what people from Canada, and from Serbia for that mattter, have to say on the subject. This is the US, not canada, not serbia. We have a great constitution and we tend to follow it. If you want to talk about a mosque in CN, then feel free. Otherwise your opinion on this subject just doesn't carry much weight with us US citizens.

352 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:15:13pm

re: #347 ArchangelMichael

Imam Kerrigan?

Image: Sarah_Kerrigan_by_fluxen.jpg

353 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:15:18pm

re: #345 palomino

Damn, man, we're all gonna miss your insights so much. Come back, you're really advancing the cause of half-assed douchebag bigotry.

"I'm gonna MISS HIM..."

/Venkman

354 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:15:38pm

re: #347 ArchangelMichael

Imam Kerrigan?

So she can re: #353 WindUpBird

"I'm gonna MISS HIM..."

/Venkman

Okay. You owe me a keyboard.

355 Judith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:15:48pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

356 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:06pm

Support the Mosque or not....
I hope it isn't a focal point for the wing nuts with
Bulls Eye Stencils and red paint!
THAT would be a BAD snowball to get rolling!!

357 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:13pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

Do they have some secret handshake or something?

358 freetoken  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:39pm

re: #335 Judith


And I am feeling like Marduhai right now. This no longer feels like a place for reasoned careful consideration of facts. It feels like a place for knee jerk name calling of anyone who disagrees with you.

The fact is, in the US the concept of a "right" is not dependent upon how people feel. This is the same problem with the Prop. 8 supporters.

Whether it is 1, 10, 100, or a million people who feel like the Park51 project is wrong or bad or evil or... etc... is not a matter that should be the basis of stopping the thing.

Furthermore, making room for such feelings in decisions like this is itself problematic as those involved in the anti-Park51 movement have great overlap with a multitude of anti-Moslem effluence pouring out over this country, so now it becomes an important matter to make clear exactly what the important issues are.

And the important issue is this: the right for a group of people in this country to conduct their religious beliefs as they see fit, as long as they are not harming anyone else.

Being an affront to your sensibilities is not "harming" in this sense.

So I give no room to the type of emotional angst the anti-Park51 movement so much wants to make the basis of law (in practice) in this country.

359 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:47pm

re: #335 Judith

talon 262 knee jerk reaction and your display of ignorance is SO appalling! Why don't you shut up and stop embarassing yourself and get your facts straight before posting? I suggest you go and read what the Canadian Muslim Congress, who this woman is and what she says BEFORE opening your mouth.

For the record - She is not an MP nor does Canada have a congress.

Sheesh shaking my head in dismay at the display of complete and utter ignorance.

And I am feeling like Marduhai right now. This no longer feels like a place for reasoned careful consideration of facts. It feels like a place for knee jerk name calling of anyone who disagrees with you.

Do you, or do you not, agree that the constitution protects private property rights in general, and religious freedoms in general? Do you not understand that MANY buildings in Manhattan are owned by foreign entities, including Saudi Arabia, and that there is nothing improper or unusual about it? Do you not comprehend that there are mosques all over NYC, and that this one in particular is NOT at ground zero? Do you not get that making a stink over this makes you look like a bigoted moron, who is selectively outraged over one organization, when there are FAR MORE EXTREME ones, buying buildings all over the country, and that even that is perfectly legal?

360 Judith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:51pm

re: #345 palomino

Damn, man, we're all gonna miss your insights so much. Come back, you're really advancing the cause of half-assed douchebag bigotry.

Yup, I think I've about had it as well. Have fun in Moonbat-land asshole.

361 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:54pm

re: #357 SinisterBen

Yeah I love how they now have to PROVE themselves before they can build on private land.

362 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:16:57pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

Intriguing.
Can I apply your logic to, say, the Vatican?
How about to any Church in this country?

363 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:07pm

re: #355 Judith

the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement


What would be sufficient?

364 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:12pm

I love how Islam is like this mega organization with super Muslims, and special ways to show they are legit. It is like a really awesome conspiracy comic.

365 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:16pm

Please folks - at least read the thread and posts before cutting, pasting and flouncing.

Jee whiz.

BBL gotta go vote in the Evil Wepubwican Wunoff here in GA.

366 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:48pm

re: #304 cliffster

Here's an interesting take by Raheel Raza, in case you missed it.

Damn, you got me, you sob./

367 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:54pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

Maybe we should just ask them, "When did you stop beheading the infidels?"

(A variation on "when did you stop beating your wife.")

368 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:17:58pm

re: #355 Judith

What assurances would make you happy ? I suspect none. I think you are a bullshit friend of bigots here to defend the shrieking harpy and co.

369 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:18:33pm

re: #367 Charles

Do you now, or have you ever beheaded an infidel?

//

370 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:18:43pm

re: #363 jaunte

What would be sufficient?

Dude she can't tell you, they are secret requirements.

371 ShaunP  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:18:43pm

What's the flounce record for a single thread?

372 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:18:51pm

re: #304 cliffster

Here's an interesting take by Raheel Raza, in case you missed it.

Gee, I must have missed that the last 274 times it was posted.

373 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:18:58pm

re: #367 Charles

Judy smells familiar.

374 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:19:03pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

I love these heartstring-pulling pocket bios, as if whether you're a firefighter or how many progeny you've generated means ANYTHING when it comes to, you know, the Constitution of the United States.

375 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:19:32pm

re: #327 ArchangelMichael

Supporting the first amendment, equal protection, and *gasp* PRIVATE PROPERTY rights makes you a moonbat now?

If only we could get rid of that pesky first Amendment..
Then when Rev. Wright says 'God damn America ' We could put him in Jail and tear down his church. and when the Vatican sends money to America to build churches we could ask' What is the REAL source of the money?' And of course we could shut down those Fundie snake handling preachers...And those Baptists! Finally America could rid themselves of Baptists... You see where this is going don't you?
The First Amendment protects all of us...Not just certain viewpoints or religions

376 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:19:36pm

re: #370 SinisterBen

Well, she's talking about facts. There should be one in there somewhere.

377 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:19:45pm
378 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:19:56pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

There is no mechanism in American property law to demand that a group show they are not connected to an amorphous international movement, even if that movement has produced terror networks.

If the CMC wants to appeal to Imam Rauf to provide them with some assurances of his political beliefs, or sign some sort of statement of beliefs they have, that's great, and they may contact him about it.

However, NYC has no part in this. End of story. Legally, this is irrelevent.

What does the CMC want to happen at this point?

379 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:04pm

re: #356 reloadingisnotahobby

Support the Mosque or not...
I hope it isn't a focal point for the wing nuts with
Bulls Eye Stencils and red paint!
THAT would be a BAD snowball to get rolling!!

It's going to be a real problem. Probably have to have 2 or 3 cops posted outside 24/7. All on NYC taxpayer's tab, too.

380 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:06pm

These threads are like a good colon cleansing. It helps get out all the bad poisonous shit you didn't even know you were harboring.

381 ShaunP  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:15pm

re: #372 Charles

Gee, I must have missed that the last 274 times it was posted.

You sir, have just been Rick Rolled...

382 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:16pm

It's a double-flounce thread.

383 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:18pm

re: #357 SinisterBen

Do they have some secret handshake or something?

The CMC can do a blood test for taqqiyah.

384 freetoken  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:29pm

re: #377 Judith

I gave you a carefully thought out reply.

You ignored it.

385 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:42pm

re: #375 HoosierHoops

funny how it was the baptists who used to be the biggest proponents of seperation of church and state...

386 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:42pm

re: #374 WindUpBird

I love these heartstring-pulling pocket bios, as if whether you're a firefighter or how many progeny you've generated means ANYTHING when it comes to, you know, the Constitution of the United States.

Well, they are important when determining whether or not you are a RealAmerican™.

387 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:20:51pm

re: #372 Charles

Gee, I must have missed that the last 274 times it was posted.

Mine was more insightful than the others.

388 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:08pm

re: #377 Judith

Yeah, you will be more comfortable hanging out with Kathy Shaidle and the rest of that Canadians for White Supremacy crew...

389 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:11pm

re: #355 Judith

They are Sufi.

Al-queda would love to blow them up.

390 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:27pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

Actually it is logically impossible to prove a negative.

Prove you're not a moby with a dick, right now. It should be easy.

What?

391 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:37pm

re: #387 cliffster

Mine was more insightful than the others.

See, if you want to rickroll me, you're going to have to post a link that I would consider clicking.

392 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:41pm

re: #358 freetoken

The fact is, in the US the concept of a "right" is not dependent upon how people feel. This is the same problem with the Prop. 8 supporters.

That fact that there is an ever-flowing stream of people just totally blind to this, man it just really impresses me

Because that's how much these people care about America. Bang on all the WE'RE FREEDOM AMURICA! sentiments and then advocate for the demonization and persecution of an entire religion.

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:50pm

re: #371 ShaunP

What's the flounce record for a single thread?

Oh, jeez, much higher than this. We used to have Lizards of name flouncing four or five in an evening for a while.

394 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:21:53pm

re: #377 Judith

This is my last post before I leave LGF. Sorry Charles but this isn't my place anymore, it's full of knee jerk moon bats.

juante, go read the article. I gave the link. It's all right there.

Oh sorry that would require thinking and reading something carefully and understanding what the writer is saying, wouldn't it? Easier to just label me a bigot and then you can ignore me.

Bye bye, it was a good run.

Flouncapalooza

395 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:22:02pm

re: #355 Judith

Easy, 9/11 was radical Islam or what the Canadian Muslim Congress calls "political" Islam. The people building the Mosque have not, according to CMC provided the assurances required to show they are not part of the same movement. If they are of the same movement then the charges of radical/political triumphalism and thumbing their nose at American and glorifying the terrotists act are correct.

It is easy to show this is not the case. Let them show it. Thus far they are not doing so.

Just like the Nirth Certifikit bullshit...

The burden of proof as to whether or not The Cordoba group are "bad" in some way falls upon the accusers. They don't have to prove anything to proceed with actions which are perfectly legal and protected in this country. If someone thinks they are a front for terrorists or funneling money to Hamas... they need to prove it.

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:22:05pm

re: #372 Charles

Gee, I must have missed that the last 274 times it was posted.

Click on it, Charles.

397 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:22:49pm

re: #371 ShaunP

What's the flounce record for a single thread?

One Rush Limbaugh race-baiting thread had more than 20 flounces. It was a lemming run.

398 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:23:40pm

I'm glad I was paying attention to this thread. I always miss the flounce-fests.

I'm like Paul from Cheers. An obscure reference, I know. (Paul, not Cheers)

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:23:43pm

re: #385 Dreggas

funny how it was the baptists who used to be the biggest proponents of seperation of church and state...

That was back when the Baptists were a minority group, and worried about being mistreated.

400 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:23:54pm

re: #396 SanFranciscoZionist

Click on it, Charles.

What do I look like, an amateur?

401 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:14pm

re: #360 Judith

Yup, I think I've about had it as well. Have fun in Moonbat-land asshole.

We'll miss your insights even less. That maple leaf isn't big enough to cover your naughty bits.

I'll probably have more fun here than you will in the land of hate and prejudice. Now go fuck yourself.

402 freetoken  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:19pm

re: #392 WindUpBird

That fact that there is an ever-flowing stream of people just totally blind to this, man it just really impresses me

The recent populist movement, now fully latched onto by the GOP wanna-be Presidents, is in full anti-liberal (as in classical liberal, or anti-enlightenment) mode right now. The 1st, 10th, and 14th Amendments are under direct attack, as well as some of the later ones.

It's nothing but mob hatred now sped up at the speed of light courtesy of the internet.

403 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:24pm

re: #389 Obdicut

They are Sufi.

Al-queda would love to blow them up.

All muslims are the same! They're like the Zerg! They'll overrun us! You can't LET THEM TAKE OUT OUR REFINERY WE NEED MORE VESPENE GAS

404 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:33pm

re: #400 Charles

What do I look like, an amateur?

Dude, you totally clicked it. C'mon.

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:47pm

re: #400 Charles

What do I look like, an amateur?

:)

406 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:24:52pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

All muslims are the same! They're like the Zerg! They'll overrun us! You can't LET THEM TAKE OUT OUR REFINERY WE NEED MORE VESPENE GAS

SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS!

407 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:25:09pm

re: #380 Fozzie Bear

These threads are like a good colon cleansing. It helps get out all the bad poisonous shit you didn't even know you were harboring.

Except that "colon cleansing" is a fraud, the body does not harbor poisons that way, and running a bunch of fiber through your intestines does nothing to remove anything but the fiber and whatever else was in there, which would have come out on its own anyway.

408 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:25:14pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

All muslims are the same! They're like the Zerg! They'll overrun us! You can't LET THEM TAKE OUT OUR REFINERY WE NEED MORE VESPENE GAS

They need to spawn more overlords before they build anymore Mosques here.

409 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:25:29pm

re: #396 SanFranciscoZionist

Click on it, Charles.

this is still my favorite:

410 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:25:37pm

re: #406 Varek Raith

SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS!

I just realized yesterday that I suck at that game.

411 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:26:01pm

re: #407 Cato the Elder

Except that "colon cleansing" is a fraud, the body does not harbor poisons that way, and running a bunch of fiber through your intestines does nothing to remove anything but the fiber and whatever else was in there, which would have come out on its own anyway.

You shat on my simile.

412 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:26:19pm

re: #408 ArchangelMichael

They need to spawn more overlords before they build anymore Mosques here.

Overlords had the best voice cues :D

*click* GYYARGGGHHH *click* grblgrbllrhrgbrh *click* YEEARRRHKKKK

413 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #395 ArchangelMichael

Just like the Nirth Certifikit bullshit...

The burden of proof as to whether or not The Cordoba group are "bad" in some way falls upon the accusers. They don't have to prove anything to proceed with actions which are perfectly legal and protected in this country. If someone thinks they are a front for terrorists or funneling money to Hamas... they need to prove it.

Apparently Mardukhai did, but we missed it. Or failed to understand it. Or something.

414 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:28:04pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

Apparently Mardukhai did, but we missed it. Or failed to understand it. Or something.

It's super special evidence. The kind where the source is a link to [Link: www.google.com...]

415 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:28:08pm

These little flouncefests are funny now.

It won't be so funny when Palin or someone similar wins the presidency in 2012 and they are "investigating" every mosque in the country, and we truly are in the minority.

416 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:28:13pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

Apparently Mardukhai did, but we missed it. Or failed to understand it. Or something.

Well, he told us so, and if you can't believe an unsupported assertion on the internet, what can you believe anymore?

417 cliffster  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:28:17pm
418 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:29:00pm

re: #416 WindUpBird

Well, he told us so, and if you can't believe an unsupported assertion on the internet, what can you believe anymore?

Alex Jones.

419 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:29:31pm

re: #415 Fozzie Bear

These little flouncefests are funny now.

It won't be so funny when Palin or someone similar wins the presidency in 2012 and they are "investigating" every mosque in the country, and we truly are in the minority.

I'm imagining Judith angrily slamming down the phone like a Phil Hendrie guest after telling the entire blog that "we can all just drop down to the hades, hang a left, fifth pit, and cook. Have a pleasant evening." :D

420 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:29:38pm

re: #382 Charles

It's a double-flounce thread.

That's kinda fun and cathartic. Can we go for a trifecta?

421 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:29:42pm

If you're gonna try posting a rickroll here, at least have the decency to post this one (I still think its one of the more creative ones ever made):

422 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:30:10pm

re: #418 SinisterBen

Alex Jones.

Alex Jones! I've been waiting to post this in response to His name:

423 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:30:22pm

re: #418 SinisterBen

Alex Jones.

424 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:31:09pm

re: #423 Varek Raith

[Video]

That is an ANGRY man.

425 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:31:09pm

re: #422 WindUpBird

Then against my better judgement I went walking out that door
I smiled at one person then I nodded to three more
One man asked me for a dollar, I asked him, "What's it for?"
He said, "I have seen them" I said, "OK, it's yours"
And as featured on the MTV
The local highschool lets out and the town becomes anarchy
Parties are crashed, skid marks are measured
The story's in the paper, you may read it at your leisure

Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!

426 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:31:28pm

Wow! Another flounce from the infamous class of 2004...

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:31:29pm

re: #418 SinisterBen

Alex Jones.

My mother-in-law falls asleep every night with Alex Jones' podcasts playing in her headphones.

This scares the hell out of me. I don't know how her wife copes, but I guess after thirty years and raising two kids you get used to someone's craziness.

428 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:32:03pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

Apparently Mardukhai did, but we missed it. Or failed to understand it. Or something.

His claim is that Imam Rauf "supported the dictator of Sudan."

It's based on the fact that Rauf visited Sudan as an election observer, in their very first democratic elections, and said that although the elections were flawed they were a good first step on the road to democracy. (I'm paraphrasing, of course; there's a video.)

Apparently, promoting democracy in Sudan is the same thing as supporting the dictator.

To me, it looks like Imam Rauf really is the kind of moderate Muslim we should all support. He travels overseas to Islamic countries to support and promote democratic elections. Why is this supposed to be bad again?

429 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:32:19pm

re: #421 RadicalModerate

My favorite is a "grunge roll" .... my son is still mad at me for showing this to him....

430 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:32:29pm

re: #422 WindUpBird

Alex Jones! I've been waiting to post this in response to His name:


[Video]

I used to see a truck on the road covered in prisonplanet rants and links to infowars. The guy probably was a meth-head. And looked like he just fell out of a trailer fresh from a tussle with a tornado.

431 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:33:20pm

re: #430 SinisterBen

I used to see a truck on the road covered in prisonplanet rants and links to infowars. The guy probably was a meth-head. And looked like he just fell out of a trailer fresh from a tussle with a tornado.

Well, that's what happens when you DON'T play D&D and you have a rich fantasy life. :D

432 deranged cat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:33:43pm

re: #421 RadicalModerate

in addition: John McCain gets obama roll'd

433 freetoken  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:33:56pm

re: #428 Charles

Why is this supposed to be bad again?

Well Charles, everyone knows that Democracy is just an Islamicist's secret tool for taking over a country - didn't you know?

434 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:34:02pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

Well, that's what happens when you DON'T play D&D and you have a rich fantasy life. :D

The government wants my scrap copper!

435 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:34:07pm

re: #415 Fozzie Bear

These little flouncefests are funny now.

It won't be so funny when Palin or someone similar wins the presidency in 2012 and they are "investigating" every mosque in the country, and we truly are in the minority.

Palin got off to a great start yesterday when she could barely hold her own against some random lady with a giant sign.

Palin's got the goods for the runway and swimsuit portions of the competition. But when it comes to that pesky speaking portion, it all starts to fall apart.

436 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:34:15pm

re: #151 Mayor of Shadyville

I became a firefighter in NJ in 2003. That's because I always thought about being one, and I was unsure of my future in general until September 11, 2001.
I began taking the necessary classes to put myself in the position to become the FF/EMT-B I became at the age of 25. 7 years later I've never been happier, I am married with a 2 year old and one on the way.
I consider myself conservative, no matter how negative the connotation.

My questions:
1. Who owns the land, if it's publicly owned land, should the government not have a say on whether it would be a great thing for lower Manhattan to have such a facility?
THE MAIN QUESTION
2. Does the organization that is building this facility openly denounce Islamic terror, more specifically Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Hamas.
Particularly groups declared terrrorist organizations that either claimed responsibility for, or gave their heartfelt thanks and admiration for the perpetrators of the heinous act of war committed so close to its doors.

I really don't think this prerequisite is unfair and I particularly would like to see it in writing on the front door of the building.

Gulity until proven innocent...it's not what America's about and it shouldn't be.

And I love the gay bar next door thing, would never happen, but man that would make one hell of a block; a gay bar, an Islamic community center, and a large gaping hole of a mass grave? Would the duck boat tours swing down that street?

Aren't you Mr. Tolerant? If someone wanted to put a gay bar beside a church, I'll bet you'd be among the first to scream bloody murder...tell me I'm wrong.

/jackass

437 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:07pm

re: #149 tradewind

I have. But what is valid to one person is bunk to another, which is the way things work in a free society, and as I said, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I'm out of it.

translation: Facts mean nothing

438 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:17pm

re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist

My mother-in-law falls asleep every night with Alex Jones' podcasts playing in her headphones.

This scares the hell out of me. I don't know how her wife copes, but I guess after thirty years and raising two kids you get used to someone's craziness.

Your mother-in-law is an Alex Jones fan and has a wife? Hmm.

439 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:18pm

re: #377 Judith

This is my last post before I leave LGF. Sorry Charles but this isn't my place anymore, it's full of knee jerk moon bats.

You are right. LGF has a handful of moonbats. However, there's also a handful of wingnuts (I really hate that wingnut shit btw... 'moonbat' sounds better to describe political crazy regardless of party IMO but I digress).

None of the moonbats are saying anything asinine in this thread at all. Apparently not being a raging islamophobe to the point of wanting to throw US law and tradition out the window is all that is required to be a moonbat to you.

440 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:24pm
441 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:33pm

re: #426 HoosierHoops

Hey... .I'm a class of 2004 (which by the way was the first year of required registrations). I'm starting to think I'm the last one too....

442 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:35:46pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

All muslims are the same! They're like the Zerg! They'll overrun us! You can't LET THEM TAKE OUT OUR REFINERY WE NEED MORE VESPENE GAS

Think of the children. Our children are in danger.

443 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:36:05pm

re: #435 palomino

Palin got off to a great start yesterday when she could barely hold her own against some random lady with a giant sign.

Palin's got the goods for the runway and swimsuit portions of the competition. But when it comes to that pesky speaking portion, it all starts to fall apart.

Look at the audience, and tell me that making sense matters. It's the fear, the feel-good patriotism, and the rage that matter to her base. Making sense isn't even on the list.

444 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:36:29pm

re: #428 Charles

His claim is that Imam Rauf "supported the dictator of Sudan."

It's based on the fact that Rauf visited Sudan as an election observer, in their very first democratic elections, and said that although the elections were flawed they were a good first step on the road to democracy. (I'm paraphrasing, of course; there's a video.)

Apparently, promoting democracy in Sudan is the same thing as supporting the dictator.

To me, it looks like Imam Rauf really is the kind of moderate Muslim we should all support. He travels overseas to Islamic countries to support and promote democratic elections. Why is this supposed to be bad again?

He probably has more of a clue about what goes on there than Jimmy Carter, that's a bet.

445 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:37:08pm

re: #442 eclectic infidel

Think of the children. Our children are in danger.

Your base is under attack.

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:37:35pm

re: #445 SinisterBen

Your base is under attack.

SILOS NEEDED

447 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:38:00pm

re: #441 lawhawk

Hey... .I'm a class of 2004 (which by the way was the first year of required registrations). I'm starting to think I'm the last one too...

I don't really count, I'm from late 2004.

448 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:38:15pm

I think I'm going to go out and buy SCII tonight.

449 Mayor of Shadyville  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:38:19pm

Is this the first one I've registered? Really have I posted under another name Charles? That would be news to me.
LOL did someone call me a putz? That's a pleasurable experience.
You are right, my Lebanese friend can certainly be a Christian, that's none of my business. I'm a non-practicing Catholic myself.
I'm not trying to tattoo a Bald Eagle to your ass brotha I'm just tryin to tell you where I'm coming from, give you a little perspective on my opinions and all that.
Do I come off as one of those guys, or is it just that you simply disagree with me and you need to put a little dash of vitriol to make it sound smarter?
I like spicy, I'm no constitutional scholar I was just stating exaples of municipalities making decisions on commercial property, but I'm not sure how Manhattan's city council works, and I'm certainly not up on their city ordinances either.
I think it makes for good debate is all I'm sayin'.
Really the crux of it is just because I'm a jackass in your head doesnt mean you're correct in saying that we should put an Islamic Community Center near ground zero.
I initially thought it was going to be on ground zero itself, replacing that gaping hole and metal monstrosity that exists now. Now I hear its two blocks away. Two city blocks? That's pretty far? Does anyone have the address in relation to ground zero?
If it's that far away why is anyone making a big deal?
I'm not comfortable with replacing that hole in the ground with a mosque, does that make me mean?

450 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:38:51pm

re: #441 lawhawk

Hey... .I'm a class of 2004 (which by the way was the first year of required registrations). I'm starting to think I'm the last one too...

You have always been the best of the best of any class...
Regards

451 blueraven  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:38:55pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

1. I have no idea if Imam Rauf is a saint or not. You don't have to be a saint to build a mosque in NYC, you just need permission from the zoning committeee.

2. You have never actually given us any proof that Rauf backs Bashir in any way. If you can't make your case, we will tend to dismiss you when you come with it again.

He can't. So with a dirty, tear streaked, face he is taking his ball and glove and leaving.
Batter UP!

452 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:39:00pm

re: #435 palomino

Palin got off to a great start yesterday when she could barely hold her own against some random lady with a giant sign.

Palin's got the goods for the runway and swimsuit portions of the competition. But when it comes to that pesky speaking portion, it all starts to fall apart.

To be fair, she was up against one-o-them durned teachers. Also, her daughter seems like a real uh... peach.

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:39:11pm

re: #438 Cato the Elder

Your mother-in-law is an Alex Jones fan and has a wife? Hmm.

What can I say? She gave birth to my beloved husband. I love and respect her, and I delete all the stuff she e-mails me about Barack Obama.

454 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:39:36pm

re: #448 Fozzie Bear

I think I'm going to go out and buy SCII tonight.

Seconded. Motion Passes.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:39:48pm

re: #439 ArchangelMichael

You are right. LGF has a handful of moonbats. However, there's also a handful of wingnuts (I really hate that wingnut shit btw... 'moonbat' sounds better to describe political crazy regardless of party IMO but I digress).

None of the moonbats are saying anything asinine in this thread at all. Apparently not being a raging islamophobe to the point of wanting to throw US law and tradition out the window is all that is required to be a moonbat to you.

Oh, none of you guys who think we have moonbats on LGF have ever seen a moonbat!

456 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:40:04pm

re: #449 Mayor of Shadyville

If this is all true, you are merely misinformed. The mosque is indeed a couple of blocks away. Does anybody have that map link handy?

457 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:40:26pm

re: #39 Spare O'Lake

Since a majority (53%) of New Yorkers oppose the mosque being built in that location, what on earth is wrong with politicians like the Dem Governor trying to work out a compromise on the location, with the consent of the developers?

A majority of people in many towns opposed desegregation, that's what the guard guys with guns were for, it wasn't because they were REALLY COOL WITH IT

I guess we should have just left those schools segregated, because mob rules derp de derpity durp

458 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:40:30pm

re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist

What can I say? She gave birth to my beloved husband. I love and respect her, and I delete all the stuff she e-mails me about Barack Obama.

I had a co-worker who shared those "lovely" emails with me. I, to say the least, was a little afraid of the fact that he also had a concealed carry permit.

459 theheat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:40:56pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

I volunteer to have mine taken away so long as Mr. Heat provides me my own private chauffeur. And I'd like him to be young, tall, dark, handsome, and have no other plans every afternoon while Mr. Heat is at work.

Bet that no license for women idea would last about 5 minutes.

460 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:41:09pm

re: #445 SinisterBen

Your base is under attack.

Yeah. What made me think of that one was a scene out of Jitterbug Perfume, where Alobar & Kudra were forced to flee for their lives from the locals when the local populace gave into their fear and prejudice. I haven't heard the right-wing use "the children" as an excuse for opposition to the community center yet, but I think we will as the rhetoric becomes more heated and by default, irrational.

461 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:41:25pm

re: #443 Fozzie Bear

Look at the audience, and tell me that making sense matters. It's the fear, the feel-good patriotism, and the rage that matter to her base. Making sense isn't even on the list.

Right, which is why she actually stands a chance at getting the GOP nod.

There are some superficial similarities between Palin and Obama--both young, attractive, charismatic, able to give a good speech. But the left, me included, swooned over Obama largely due to his intellect.

Sarah's fans, on the other hand, certainly didn't fall in love with her for her brains.

462 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:41:32pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, none of you guys who think we have moonbats on LGF have ever seen a moonbat!

ahahaha NO SHIT.

Not ONE person here has gone bonkers about crystal power or homeopathy or ear candles!

463 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:41:35pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, none of you guys who think we have moonbats on LGF have ever seen a moonbat!

This is so true.

If I'm a moonbat, then a real moonbat, you wouldn't even recognize as speaking English. They would scare the shit out of most of the people here.

464 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:41:38pm

re: #377 Judith

Judith flounced in reply to jaunte's pretty reasonable and polite "What would be sufficient?.

WHAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT, YOU ASK? HOW DARE YOU, SIR? I'M A MOTHER!

Lame flounce. Boooh!

465 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:01pm

re: #449 Mayor of Shadyville


I'm not comfortable with replacing that hole in the ground with a mosque, does that make me mean?

Someone unfamiliar with the facts of the matter.

The mosque is not replacing Ground Zero. It is replacing a Burlington Coat Factory. I was unaware of the Burlington Coat Factory building's existence until this mess blew up, and so was the entire population of the world outside a few specific blocks in Lower Manhattan.

466 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:13pm

re: #460 eclectic infidel

Yeah. What made me think of that one was a scene out of Jitterbug Perfume, where Alobar & Kudra were forced to flee for their lives from the locals when the local populace gave into their fear and prejudice. I haven't heard the right-wing use "the children" as an excuse for opposition to the community center yet, but I think we will as the rhetoric becomes more heated and by default, irrational.

The children argument is being used against the gays right now. They have 9-11 to bang on here. Why change tactics?

467 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:14pm
468 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:46pm

re: #464 Nimed

Judith flounced in reply to jaunte's pretty reasonable and polite "What would be sufficient?.

WHAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT, YOU ASK? HOW DARE YOU, SIR? I'M A MOTHER!

Lame flounce. Boooh!

hahaha "Because I said so!"

"Uh, we're not your eight year old asking to have a new Nintendo game, lady."

469 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:53pm
470 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:42:56pm

re: #448 Fozzie Bear

I think I'm going to go out and buy SCII tonight.

Hey, you can just download it. Right now!

471 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:43:02pm

re: #452 SinisterBen

To be fair, she was up against one-o-them durned teachers. Also, her daughter seems like a real uh... peach.

Just a baby cub sticking up for her mama grizzly.

472 freetoken  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:43:37pm

Another parallel - creationism in schools. I remember when this was hot here a couple of years ago, and some people would bring in the but if the majority vote for school board members to implement teaching creationsim... argument, how we had to explain (and often it was like speaking to a wall) why majority rule doesn't determine basic rights.

This is really amazing to see in this country so many people not realize why basic rights are listed in the Constitution and why they are not up for majority vote.

The tyranny of the majority is one of the greatest threats to individual liberty. Now, that idea gets misused a lot by the fundamentalist libertarians, mainly because of what does or does not constitute "liberty" has often been argued about, along the fringes.

But in this country especially, freedom to practice one's own religious beliefs is about as close to a definition of being "American" as one can get. To avoid the religious war history of Europe is one of this country's primary reasons for being.

How does this get lost on so many people?

473 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:43:46pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone unfamiliar with the facts of the matter.

The mosque is not replacing Ground Zero. It is replacing a Burlington Coat Factory. I was unaware of the Burlington Coat Factory building's existence until this mess blew up, and so was the entire population of the world outside a few specific blocks in Lower Manhattan.

Secret Burlington Coat Mosque Training Indoctrination Sector

474 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:06pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

But it's Burlington fucking COAT Factory! That's Sacrid ground in uuuuuhhhhhhmuuuuuurrrrrrrrrriKA! don't you know that?!

///

475 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:07pm

re: #470 Nimed

Hey, you can just download it. Right now!

Oo really? How much is it?

476 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:14pm

re: #441 lawhawk

Hey... .I'm a class of 2004 (which by the way was the first year of required registrations). I'm starting to think I'm the last one too...

Ah, so that's why I never see any profiles with registration dates prior to 2004.

477 brookly red  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:18pm

re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone unfamiliar with the facts of the matter.

The mosque is not replacing Ground Zero. It is replacing a Burlington Coat Factory. I was unaware of the Burlington Coat Factory building's existence until this mess blew up flared up, and so was the entire population of the world outside a few specific blocks in Lower Manhattan.

/we are still a bit skitterish here...

478 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:23pm

re: #470 Nimed

Hey, you can just download it. Right now!

Do it overnight though. It takes forever.

(By the way, next time some Protoss jerk pulls that Void Ray bullshit, I'm punching my computer screen.)

479 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:26pm

re: #449 Mayor of Shadyville

I initially thought it was going to be on ground zero itself, replacing that gaping hole and metal monstrosity that exists now. Now I hear its two blocks away. Two city blocks? That's pretty far? Does anyone have the address in relation to ground zero? [Try this new service: [Link: www.google.com]...]

If it's that far away why is anyone making a big deal? [Good question, one we've been asking here for months.]

I'm not comfortable with replacing that hole in the ground with a mosque, does that make me mean? [Not at all. You're plainly just pig-ignorant. Or a concern troll. Maybe both.]

Oh, and try learning to use double paragraph breaks to make it easier to read your tripe. I inserted them for you here.

Or don't.

480 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:44:30pm

re: #471 palomino

Just a baby cub sticking up for her mama grizzly.

It looked more like 2 petulant children being told they weren't going to get dessert. I imagine she will institute Free Speech Zones at her events, to prevent evil teachers from pointing out she is a quitter.

481 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:45:03pm

re: #474 Thanos

But it's Burlington fucking COAT Factory! That's Sacrid ground in uuuhhhmuuurrriKA! don't you know that?!

///

Thank god, when the vampires come, I'll just head to the nearest Burlington Coat Factory and they won't be able to come inside

THE POWER OF THIS FLEECE VEST COMPELS YOU

482 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:45:25pm

re: #449 Mayor of Shadyville

Really the crux of it is just because I'm a jackass in your head doesnt mean you're correct in saying that we should put an Islamic Community Center near ground zero.
I initially thought it was going to be on ground zero itself, replacing that gaping hole and metal monstrosity that exists now. Now I hear its two blocks away. Two city blocks? That's pretty far? Does anyone have the address in relation to ground zero?
If it's that far away why is anyone making a big deal?
I'm not comfortable with replacing that hole in the ground with a mosque, does that make me mean?

I have no way of determining if you're a jackass or not. But since we're not replacing 'that hole in the ground with a mosque' are you comfortable with a center that's going to be further away than strip clubs and gyms and businesses and other religous buildings?

And BTW, the constitution doesn't give you the right to deny something because it doesn't make you comfortable. It does give you the right to say you aren't comfortable though, and I'm glad you're willing to say it. Just don't expect the law or constitution to be on your side in trying to stop it.

483 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:45:35pm

re: #481 WindUpBird

Thank god, when the vampires come, I'll just head to the nearest Burlington Coat Factory and they won't be able to come inside

THE POWER OF THIS FLEECE VEST COMPELS YOU

So I can heal my Vile damage there?

484 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:45:37pm

re: #478 Soap_Man

Do it overnight though. It takes forever.

(By the way, next time some Protoss jerk pulls that Void Ray bullshit, I'm punching my computer screen.)

I'm starting a band called Void Ray Bullshit

485 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:46:07pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, none of you guys who think we have moonbats on LGF have ever seen a moonbat!

You have been around. You have seen things we wouldn't believe, horrors beyond the imagination of your typical placid lizard.
///

486 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:46:16pm

re: #466 SinisterBen

The children argument is being used against the gays right now. They have 9-11 to bang on here. Why change tactics?

No reason to, and advocating the building of a gay bar (for teh ghey Muslims) next to the center is a step already in that direction.

487 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:47:03pm

re: #464 Nimed

I went and read her link, but what would be required to prove the Park51 project isn't some kind of al Qaeda nest isn't there either.

488 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:47:25pm

re: #486 eclectic infidel

No reason to, and advocating the building of a gay bar (for teh ghey Muslims) next to the center is a step already in that direction.

See, this is once again where I have to wonder how you can so obviously be talking out both sides of your mouth, while people sit there and nod their heads in agreement. Yes sir that makes total sense to me!

489 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:47:52pm

re: #486 eclectic infidel

No reason to, and advocating the building of a gay bar (for teh ghey Muslims) next to the center is a step already in that direction.

But they might compare notes and then join forces to become ten feet tall gay islamic radical New Yorkers, they'll become the ultimate Democrat, no mortal craft will be able to wound them

490 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:48:00pm

re: #476 CuriousLurker

Ah, so that's why I never see any profiles with registration dates prior to 2004.

It was truly the Wild West here once.

491 blueraven  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:48:25pm

re: #449 Mayor of Shadyville

Its really hard to take an argument seriously when one side does not bother to check the elementary facts.

How could you not know that it was blocks away and not directly on the WTC site?

That shows a complete willingness to argue a position you know nothing about.

492 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:48:42pm

re: #489 WindUpBird

But... but... democrats are godless! Its just their lack of moral fiber that keeps them from standing up to Radical Islam!

493 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:48:45pm

Truly erudite music for sophisticated people.

494 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:49:13pm

re: #492 windsagio

But... but... democrats are godless! Its just their lack of moral fiber that keeps them from standing up to Radical Islam!

Well, we don't always eat our vegetables, it's true

495 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:49:18pm

re: #488 SinisterBen

See, this is once again where I have to wonder how you can so obviously be talking out both sides of your mouth, while people sit there and nod their heads in agreement. Yes sir that makes total sense to me!

I think you are misunderstanding me. My comment about "the children" being in danger was sarcasm.

496 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:50:06pm

re: #493 Fozzie Bear

Hair Meta!

497 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:50:11pm

re: #489 WindUpBird

But they might compare notes and then join forces to become ten feet tall gay islamic radical New Yorkers, they'll become the ultimate Democrat, no mortal craft will be able to wound them

Whoa.

498 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:50:18pm

re: #495 eclectic infidel

I think you are misunderstanding me. My comment about "the children" being in danger was sarcasm.

Oh no, I am aware. I meant that I don't get how they can do the gays hurt children as one position, and then say I am going to help the gays too! Sorry, was talking around you there and to FoxNews.

499 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:50:28pm

Oh I didn't read the whole thread, did anybody cover the fact that bigotry is hardly 'new' for the GOP in any way?

500 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:50:58pm

re: #499 windsagio

Oh I didn't read the whole thread, did anybody cover the fact that bigotry is hardly 'new' for the GOP in any way?

That and Raza is totally against this whole thing, so there are no bigots in this argument.

501 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:51:19pm

re: #499 windsagio

Oh I didn't read the whole thread, did anybody cover the fact that bigotry is hardly 'new' for the GOP in any way?

It ain't hardly an innovation for many Democrats, either.

502 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:51:41pm

re: #501 Cato the Elder

It ain't hardly an innovation for many Democrats, either.

ROBERT BYRD!!!

503 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:51:48pm

re: #499 windsagio

Oh I didn't read the whole thread, did anybody cover the fact that bigotry is hardly 'new' for the GOP in any way?

No no there's no such thing as a the Southern Strategy this all happened just now, these aren't the droids you're looking for

504 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:51:50pm

re: #502 windsagio

:p

505 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:52:15pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, none of you guys who think we have moonbats on LGF have ever seen a moonbat!

I was speaking relatively... based on the current span of the LGF political spectrum.

I know real moonbats offline in the real world, and they are a couple orders of magnitude crazier than anyone at LGF.

506 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:52:26pm

re: #475 Fozzie Bear

Oo really? How much is it?

Around 60 bucks in most places. A little pricey, and nothing revolutionary compared to Broodwar, but apparently it's really well made, and the campaign rocks.

507 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:52:42pm

re: #505 ArchangelMichael

I was speaking relatively... based on the current span of the LGF political spectrum.

I know real moonbats offline in the real world, and they are a couple orders of magnitude crazier than anyone at LGF.

I dunno, nimed is freakin' NUTS!

508 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:53:10pm

re: #506 Nimed

Its about 1000000x better than brood war, which was pretty... eeh.

509 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:54:10pm

re: #498 SinisterBen

Oh no, I am aware. I meant that I don't get how they can do the gays hurt children as one position, and then say I am going to help the gays too! Sorry, was talking around you there and to FoxNews.

Ohh. Ok. Gotcha. It's all copacetic.

510 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:54:31pm

re: #496 WindUpBird

Hair Meta!

I love the Sarah Silverman cameo at the end.

Steel Panther is hilarious, and doubly so to anyone that was around for the hair bands in the 80's and 90's.

511 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:56:37pm

re: #489 WindUpBird

But they might compare notes and then join forces to become ten feet tall gay islamic radical New Yorkers, they'll become the ultimate Democrat, no mortal craft will be able to wound them

LMAO! Going to make a cup of coffee—damned good thing I didn't already have it in my hand when I read that.

512 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:56:46pm

What is this SCII of which you all speak?

513 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:57:26pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

I live to serve!

514 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:58:00pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

Starcraft two. Only been waiting for it for a decade. Of course Blizzard has figured out what a gold mine it will be and is producing it in 3 parts thus the wait to finish the story continues.

515 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:58:04pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

What is this SCII of which you all speak?

Starcraft II, a real-time-strategy computer game by Blizzard which is probably going to turn out to be the single highest selling PC game in history

it's one of those gamer nerd things :D

516 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:58:31pm

re: #487 jaunte

I went and read her link, but what would be required to prove the Park51 project isn't some kind of al Qaeda nest isn't there either.

Yeah. We probably need a Senate Committee with a mandate to uncover suspicious Muslim activity. What could possibly go wrong?

517 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:59:19pm

OT:
Tour of Dark Horse comics with Tom Lenk

[Link: www.nerdist.com...]


/extra points for those who know who Tom Lenk is before clicking the link

518 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:59:33pm

re: #516 Nimed

Dang, I forgot my sarc tag again.

519 SinisterBen  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 1:59:48pm

re: #516 Nimed

Yeah. We probably need a Senate Committee with a mandate to uncover suspicious Muslim activity. What could possibly go wrong?

Awesome. I want to be one of the witch-finders.

520 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:00:33pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

What is this SCII of which you all speak?

It's a video game that I consistently lose at when playing against strangers online. Which causes me to feel like cracking open a beer while playing, which only leads to more ass kicking at the hands of teenagers. It's so much fun!

(I'm SoapMan on Battlenet, btw, for anyone who wants an easy target.)

521 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:00:47pm

re: #516 Nimed

Yeah. We probably need a Senate Committee with a mandate to uncover suspicious Muslim activity. What could possibly go wrong?

We need to find the most patriotic patriot to head it, and he's just constantly with a tear in his eye as he tells us with a quavering voice about how he's totally a firefighter and a police officer and 9/11 changed his life and he's a pastor and a nascar driver and he just loves America

522 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:00:50pm

I see also, knives are out, think this is a leadup to the LGF cleansing of 2010?

523 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:00:57pm
524 Mayor of Shadyville  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:00:59pm

Dear Cato,
Thanks for the insults, you piece of shit. I never said anything even remotely insulting to you.
I don't know you, and I'm certainly not ignorant, although I admire your web muscles. You seem really quick to insult someone who disagrees with you and thats a shame. I'd love to sit and have a cup of your favorite beverage with you and have a conversation, so we can get to know eachother, who knows, we may be friends.
But I've had enough of your 'net balls and this is the last post of the day for me because of its proximity to 5 o clock. And I'm not going to check back on this thread because frankly, its not ON ground zero, and you ceased making valid arguments over 100 posts ago. But I will find you in LGF because you're always around I remember your name from before. You're like Charles's fluffer, coming around with you're keyboard fly swatter and giving yourself a nice big cyber chubby.
I love guys and gals like you, because you chastize vitriol and spew it like Kilauea spews magma.
You sir, are a jerk off, and I hope the constitution justifies your argument, or maybe wipes the kilngons off your ass, I don't care either way.
And if you were reading me correctly, which you weren't, I said I was now aware that it wasnt on ground zero, that I simply wasnt comfortable if it actually was. But don't let FACTS get in your way guys, HAVE at it!
Just know that I won't be checking on this thread, you can mock me, make fun of me, call me whatever you like, because it makes it funnier to me. I hope there's at least 5 people quoting me and using it to further some kind of inane point.
But I'll be back Cato, not tomorrow though because I'm in the firehouse and wouldn't want to cyber fight some jerkoff on a municipal computer.
But as for my accounting office job? This whole conversation was on someone's billable hours, and I think that's funny too.
Hopefully I'm not on your accounting office's staff! Or hopefully your tax return is simple enough where you can turbo tax it and still maximize your refund. Either way, good luck friend.

525 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:01:17pm

re: #515 WindUpBird

Starcraft II, a real-time-strategy computer game by Blizzard which is probably going to turn out to be the single highest selling PC game in history

it's one of those gamer nerd things :D

Well, at least until Diablo III hits the shelves.

526 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:01:24pm

Does The 2012 GOP Convention Logo Include A Minaret?

The RNC's 2012 convention logo features the Tampa Bay skyline and one of the buildings apparently represented in the logo is what was formerly the Old Tampa Bay Hotel, a prominent feature of the Florida city's skyline. What's interesting is that the Old Tampa Bay Hotel is a product of the so-called "Moorish Revival" architectural style. And the building is graced by six minarets, the small towers built around a mosque to call worshipers to prayer. The minarets even include the spires with half crescents, a well-known symbol of Islam.

OMG! Stop the Islamization!

527 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:01:31pm

re: #520 Soap_Man

Whats your problem with void rays btw? You play zerg or something?

528 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:01:51pm

re: #513 windsagio

I live to serve!

re: #514 Dreggas

Starcraft two. Only been waiting for it for a decade. Of course Blizzard has figured out what a gold mine it will be and is producing it in 3 parts thus the wait to finish the story continues.

re: #515 WindUpBird

Starcraft II, a real-time-strategy computer game by Blizzard which is probably going to turn out to be the single highest selling PC game in history

it's one of those gamer nerd things :D

Hmm. Looks like fun. My last game that I really got into was "Black and White". I enjoyed being a god.

Will SCII run on an old iMac from 2006?

529 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:01:54pm

re: #523 darthstar

That guy has his high beams on.

STARCRAFT 2: GIGAMOOBS

530 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:02:36pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

Is this flounce ever going to go anywhere? I feel like I'm watching LOST. Just looking through the confusion, hoping for something interesting to happen.

531 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:02:51pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Looks like fun. My last game that I really got into was "Black and White". I enjoyed being a god.

Will SCII run on an old iMac from 2006?

Black and White, the Molyneux game, good times! he's one of those developers that's doing work for the Xbox Natal hardware, IIRC

532 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:02:59pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

ehehe, not likely. Don't know if it'll run on a mac at all >>
re: #525 RadicalModerate


D3 is gonna be nothing like this. It just doesn't have the love.

533 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:02pm

re: #526 Killgore Trout

Does The 2012 GOP Convention Logo Include A Minaret?

OMG! Stop the Islamization!

Ha!

534 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:07pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

too long didn't read

535 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:10pm

re: #508 windsagio

Its about 1000000x better than brood war, which was pretty... eeh.

You mean the campaign? I'm talking about new units, races, etc. Broodwar for me was all about the new units and improvements in multiplayer.

I'm kinda sad lurkers are gone.

536 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:14pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

Did someone piss in your porridge?

537 Soap_Man  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:34pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Looks like fun. My last game that I really got into was "Black and White". I enjoyed being a god.

Will SCII run on an old iMac from 2006?

Probably not. I have an expensive Macbook Pro from 2007, and it barely runs on mine.

538 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:03:56pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

I have. Over and over again. I'm tired of it. LGF used to be full of wingnuts, now it's full of moonbats.

I'm outta here.

Flouncy pouncy trouncy bouncy Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun!

539 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:04:20pm

re: #533 Gus 802

Ha!

No laughing, infidel dog! I keeel you!

540 blueraven  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:04:32pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

Lol

541 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:05pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Hmm. Looks like fun. My last game that I really got into was "Black and White". I enjoyed being a god.

Will SCII run on an old iMac from 2006?

It looks to be an amazing game. The company that makes it, Blizzard, is legendary among gamers for their ability to produce absolutely amazing games. They also have a reputation for taking years and years to produce a single game.

It may run on a 2006 iMac, and if you turn some of the video options down a bit, it may even run well. I don't know for sure.

542 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:10pm

re: #540 blueraven

CYBER CHUBBY

543 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:13pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

too long didn't read

I'll summarize for you. Waa, waa, waa, waaahhh, waah. (think the teacher from the Charlie Brown TV specials on mescaline).

544 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:19pm

re: #516 Nimed

Yeah. We probably need a Senate Committee with a mandate to uncover suspicious Muslim activity. What could possibly go wrong?

It would be a nice match for a House Un-Christian Activities Committee.

545 palomino  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:22pm

Now bad country singers get in on the anti-mosque action. Anti-mosque anthem.

546 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:32pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

What a class act you are.

First you come in here and let us all know you're a firefighter, expecting swoons from the ladies no doubt.

Now you reveal that you're a thief.

Have fun with that.

547 theheat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:33pm

re: #530 Soap_Man

Looks like a protracted flounce. A slow death spiral beginning at a mile/+ above the earth. It takes awhile for them to actually hit the dirt.

548 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:05:52pm

re: #524 Mayor of Shadyville

Fuckin' ironic that this guy accuses others of spewing heated rhetoric like magma. This one spews fluff ad nauseum. Blech.

549 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:06:28pm

re: #534 WindUpBird

too long didn't read

That's my favorite thing I learned from you new people. It would have come in handy back in the days of Fjordman.

550 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:06:35pm

re: #541 Fozzie Bear

It looks to be an amazing game. The company that makes it, Blizzard, is legendary among gamers for their ability to produce absolutely amazing games. They also have a reputation for taking years and years to produce a single game.

It may run on a 2006 iMac, and if you turn some of the video options down a bit, it may even run well. I don't know for sure.

I have to set all the video settings on low if I want to use it on my laptop rather than my desktop. The laptop was top of the line in 2006.

551 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:06:36pm

re: #528 Cato the Elder

Cato, I bet you'd love Rez (Part 2).

Best shooter ever made.

552 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:06:58pm

re: #502 windsagio

ROBERT BYRD!!!

Al Sharpton

553 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:07:36pm

re: #535 Nimed

I found BW utterly standard expansion, dunno. The II units have some zazz to them. Campaign is a totally different beast. I actually enjoy playing 2 MP.

554 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:07:56pm

I think Cato would love the shit out of Portal.

555 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:08:04pm

re: #519 SinisterBen

Awesome. I want to be one of the witch-finders.

You'll need to change your nic to something ore sinister then. Allow me to recommend Torquemada. Or maybe even Savonarola.

556 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:08:08pm

re: #545 palomino

Now bad country singers get in on the anti-mosque action. Anti-mosque anthem.

“Can’t let ‘em build it, no no no no no no,
There’s a painful memory in our minds.”

Good grief.

557 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:08:20pm

re: #549 wrenchwench

That's my favorite thing I learned from you new people. It would have come in handy back in the days of Fjordman.

Was he another outraged-rambling-brick-of-text-with-no-paragraph-breaks guy? :D

558 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:08:42pm

re: #546 Cato the Elder

What a class act you are.

First you come in here and let us all know you're a firefighter, expecting swoons from the ladies no doubt.

Now you reveal that you're a thief.

Have fun with that.

To clarify: the Mayor of Shadyville said this: "But as for my accounting office job? This whole conversation was on someone's billable hours, and I think that's funny too."

Classy.

559 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:08:51pm
560 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:09:27pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

To clarify: the Mayor of Shadyville said this: "But as for my accounting office job? This whole conversation was on someone's billable hours, and I think that's funny too."

Classy.

The joke's on him, I pay a flat rate for tax prep

561 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

Yeah I saw that. What a fucking hero.

562 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:09:40pm

re: #556 jaunte

My instincts say its a joke song >>

563 theheat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:10:46pm

re: #545 palomino

Worst. Graphics. Ever.

Worst fonts, worst layout, worst web concept. That web site meanders so, I can't tell if he's selling viagra to B.B. King or is claiming Muslims stole his Stratocaster.

What a mess.

564 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:10:49pm

re: #45 darthstar

Nobody gave a crap about the Park 51 project until a few right wingers started making it a daily story on Fox...yourself included.

Wow, I did that? When do I get my Fox cheque?

565 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:11:12pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

To be honest I couldn't get far enough into his screed to actually read that part, had to backtrack to downding.

566 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:11:16pm

Cato, seriously, check out "Portal". And don't try to play it on a trackpad, it'll drive you nuts. Use a mouse.

It is as close to a classic as it gets, and the plot and atmosphere of the game is like no other game I have ever played.

567 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:06pm

BTW...


My two cents on the Cordoba Center and a gay bar next door:

I like it, just as I like it when strippers bring skimpy outfits and super soakers to protest at a church that has been trying to shut down their place of employment.

Islam is not real popular in the GLBT community (hanging gay men and women, decapitating them, stoning them, torturing them and gluing orifices shut with super glue doesn't get you on the party invite list, after all) and I have no problem with poking at risible beliefs.

I do have a problem with trashing our laws concerning private property rights and free association, however, and that is what the GOP is doing wrt Cordoba House.

Poking at them with a Gay Bar? That I would support...just as much as I would if we could open one next to Rick Warren's Church.

Hell, I'd donate to change any zoning laws forbidding that last one, personally...

568 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:11pm

re: #566 Fozzie Bear

You know, I still haven't played Portal? Total crime I know.

569 Locker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:14pm

Gordon Fre: #552 Rightwingconspirator

Al Sharpton

Gordon Freeman

(Best shooter windsagio you forking tank tread!)

570 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:15pm

I just read Highjump software is promoting sending wms to a cloud solution...
What an inane idea...Sending one of the most valuable parts of a Corporate ERP into a Internet cloud? For what? To save a few bucks and possibly expose your self to hackers and share Virtual servers with who the lord knows?
No wonder 3M sold them off...

571 jaunte  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:23pm

re: #562 windsagio

Looks a little more like
desperate-exploitation-of-current-events-to-build career:
[Link: www.trademartinmusic.com...]

572 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:34pm

re: #567 celticdragon

not a big fan of opening places of business for spite tho'.

573 blueraven  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:41pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

To clarify: the Mayor of Shadyville said this: "But as for my accounting office job? This whole conversation was on someone's billable hours, and I think that's funny too."

Classy.

Yeah, one of those "conservatives" that keep talking about wasteful spending and all.

574 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:49pm

re: #564 Spare O'Lake

Wow, I did that? When do I get my Fox cheque?

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so I'll explain. I was saying you didn't give a shit about Park 51/Cordoba House until you were told to give a shit by the bigots on the right. But don't worry...I think you're a good tool, and one they're happy to keep in their pocket.

575 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:12:52pm

re: #335 Judith

My apologies for not making the correct distinction on who the particular person tradewind was talking about (as the WP page wouldn't pull up here at work from some reason), so I ran with their description. However, whether they're a Canadian MP. a member of the Canadian Muslim Congress, or just Joe/Josephine Six-Pack, my comment stands...as a Canadian, they don't have standing to approve or disapprove of what is ultimately a local NYC decision, but they're welcome to their opinion.

576 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:13:06pm

re: #566 Fozzie Bear

Cato, seriously, check out "Portal". And don't try to play it on a trackpad, it'll drive you nuts. Use a mouse.

It is as close to a classic as it gets, and the plot and atmosphere of the game is like no other game I have ever played.

I really is a great game. Highly recommended.

577 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:13:22pm

re: #570 HoosierHoops

Because it's cloudy and therefore cool.

(I don't get the obsession with service-based computing either.)

578 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:13:36pm

re: #569 Locker

DIFFERENT KIND OF SHOOTER DAMMIT!

Rez in the right circumstance (Giant HDTV, Dark quiet room, surroundsound) is a truly transcendent experience.

579 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:09pm

*Best Bender voice* I'm back, baby!

580 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:11pm

re: #351 Thanos

We don't care what people from Canada, and from Serbia for that mattter, have to say on the subject. This is the US, not canada, not serbia. We have a great constitution and we tend to follow it. If you want to talk about a mosque in CN, then feel free. Otherwise your opinion on this subject just doesn't carry much weight with us US citizens.

Now I feel so small.

581 Randall Gross  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:18pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I really is a great game. Highly recommended.

Portal II coming soon...

582 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:29pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I really is a great game. Highly recommended.

And it'll play just fine on his old Mac to boot.

583 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:42pm

re: #581 Thanos

Portal II coming soon...

That's what I am waiting for.

584 deranged cat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:14:44pm

since we're on the topic of games, games made by Valve are always good. Half life 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2. Valve probably has a similar motto to Blizzard: "take forever to make a really good game"

L4D2 is highly recommended though. a fantastic zombie shooter that emphasizes on cooperation and teamwork.

585 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:15:22pm

re: #584 deranged cat

Valve is better for hiring good teams tho', sounds like they're working on a DOTA project now.

586 Locker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:15:28pm

Portal is great but I've experienced a backlash from a few folks that hated it. I think working out the puzzles was too much of a strain on those looking for a straight slaughter.

587 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:15:31pm

re: #572 windsagio

not a big fan of opening places of business for spite tho'.

That is how capitalism rolls, though.

Cordoba House has to compete in the same marketplace of beliefs as everybody else. If there is no customer base for a gay bar next door...it will fail. I like freedom to work that way.

588 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:15:38pm

re: #584 deranged cat

since we're on the topic of games, games made by Valve are always good. Half life 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2. Valve probably has a similar motto to Blizzard: "take forever to make a really good game"

L4D2 is highly recommended though. a fantastic zombie shooter that emphasizes on cooperation and teamwork.

Blizzard's gettin' a great deal of flak, though, for their latest stunt with SCII. Namely splitting up the game into three parts, making folks wait months longer and shell out more money for "expansions."

589 darthstar  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:16:03pm

re: #584 deranged cat

L4D2 is highly recommended though. a fantastic zombie shooter that emphasizes on cooperation and teamwork.


Aren't you worried that cooperation and teamwork will get the zombies to eventually unionize?

590 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:16:23pm

re: #587 celticdragon

I think we're talking in different languages on this one :p

591 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:17:22pm

re: #588 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Blizzard's gettin' a great deal of flak, though, for their latest stunt with SCII. Namely splitting up the game into three parts, making folks wait months longer and shell out more money for "expansions."

The Multiplayer experience is the same tho' (altho I suspect they'll use the opportunity to balance patch), and the campaigns are big and crazy enough to deserve being different complete products.

592 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:17:27pm

re: #590 windsagio

I think we're talking in different languages on this one :p

Could be. As I said, the GLBT community has a very bitter take on Islam, and our motives are not at all like those of conservatives on this.

593 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:03pm

re: #584 deranged cat

since we're on the topic of games, games made by Valve are always good. Half life 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2. Valve probably has a similar motto to Blizzard: "take forever to make a really good game"

L4D2 is highly recommended though. a fantastic zombie shooter that emphasizes on cooperation and teamwork.

I was addicted to Team Fortress 2 for years. I finally stopped playing a little while ago. The Orange Box was an epic value for the price.

594 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:15pm

re: #587 celticdragon

That is how capitalism rolls, though.

Cordoba House has to compete in the same marketplace of beliefs as everybody else. If there is no customer base for a gay bar next door...it will fail. I like freedom to work that way.

IIRC, the city has zoning restrictions that keep bars some distance from churches. The whole idea is just a cheap shot.

595 webevintage  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:21pm

re: #588 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Blizzard's gettin' a great deal of flak, though, for their latest stunt with SCII. Namely splitting up the game into three parts, making folks wait months longer and shell out more money for "expansions."

My son was all fanboy annoyed and was not going to get SCll. Someone needed to "take a stand" and that "it was the principle of the thing"....until he played it.
Yeah, he owns it now.....
Every time I see the poster on his wall I say "I have principles"....pisses him off.

596 deranged cat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:23pm

oh and one big bonus with many Valve games: creator commentary. It's really really interesting and very interactive. it really seems that Valve wants to make a genuinely good game and not just a cash cow. speaking of which...

re: #588 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
i hadn't heard of this until today. that's f'ed up.

597 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:24pm

re: #592 celticdragon

Well I'm hardly a conservative >

Maybe I missed something, is something actually being seriously suggested for that, or is it just people sniggering about it in a dark corner?

598 deranged cat  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:18:47pm

re: #593 Killgore Trout

i totally agree. epic value barely even begins to describe it.

599 Locker  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:19:02pm

re: #589 darthstar

Aren't you worried that cooperation and teamwork will get the zombies to eventually unionize?

They are unionized. You telling me that a Boomer doesn't look like a Union Boss, Hunter like a Strike Breaker and a Smoker has the personality of a corrupt politician choking the life out of things. Tank... well we all know what the Tank is....

600 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:19:11pm

re: #591 windsagio

The Multiplayer experience is the same tho' (altho I suspect they'll use the opportunity to balance patch), and the campaigns are big and crazy enough to deserve being different complete products.

Personally, it ticks me off a bit, having to fork over more money for "expansion packs" when it should be one complete game.

601 Digital Display  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:19:30pm

re: #577 Fozzie Bear

Because it's cloudy and therefore cool.

(I don't get the obsession with service-based computing either.)

We'll make money on Clouds cause we just released the most powerful blade solution in the world.. I'm guessing HP isn't happy right now...

602 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:20:54pm

re: #595 webevintage

My son was all fanboy annoyed and was not going to get SCll. Someone needed to "take a stand" and that "it was the principle of the thing"...until he played it.
Yeah, he owns it now...
Every time I see the poster on his wall I say "I have principles"...pisses him off.

Well, part of my reasons for not getting SCII yet is due to not having a system that can play it. I'm looking at investing in a whole new PC in the future, if only to get back over the "minimum requirements" hurdle.

603 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:21:01pm

re: #286 Mardukhai

I have been following the Cordoba Initiative for years -- It's a Saudi-funded false front, a smiley-faced cover.

Imam Rauf's alleged moderation falls completely flat in the context of his flackery for Sudanese war crimes.

I've seen that you have apparently flounced (the old "but...but...YOU'VE CHANGED!!!" bit), so I'll just log this for posterity: You've basically called the group behind Cordoba House/Park51 a bunch of terrorists-in-wait, without giving any hard, provable evidence.

/don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...

604 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:21:07pm

re: #600 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pissed me off too at first (and I'm no fan of Blizzard normally), but actually owning it and playing it really turned me around on the subject.

605 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:21:12pm

re: #595 webevintage

I hate that it's in multiple parts but given the single player was a long and decent campaign it does justify multiple parts. Now things are getting interesting. Of course at 65 a pop it is an expensive form of interesting.

606 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:22:33pm

re: #605 Dreggas

The terran campaign is longer than the entirity of the Starcraft campaign, and has substantially more variety in missions as well.

607 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:27:04pm

re: #473 WindUpBird

Secret Burlington Coat Mosque Training Indoctrination Sector

Here's the thing. Let's say that Imam Rauf is rotten to the core. He's a jihadi, he's pro-Hamas, and anti-kitten, and the whole nine yards. There are guys like that out there. Too damn many.

OK, let's say we prevent this man from building a community center. What exactly have we gained by so doing?

608 avanti  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:27:37pm

Beck now comes out against the Mosque "across the street" from the 9-11 site. Just claimed they planned the dedication on 9-11-11. His problem is one of the Mosque supporters is a donor to a middle east peace group that is connected to a group that is connected to the Gaza aid flotilla group that is supported by Hamas.
If you follow the arrows on the Beck blackboard, that means the Mosque guy is obviously a Hamas terrorist. He even linked it to Kagan !

609 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:27:48pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

Was he another outraged-rambling-brick-of-text-with-no-paragraph- breaks guy? :D

HUGE paragraphs, and large block quotes of people smarter than him to make himself look smart.

/sorry for the delay. Had a 'puter glich, then a customer....

610 Achilles Tang  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:29:33pm

What I don't get, cuz I'm getting old, is how so many people, influencing stock shares even, have the time to spend so much on computer/video games. Longer games than scrabble.

I know some of them still have time left over for LGF, and they seem reasonably well informed about current affairs; but where does the time for books, novels, Glenn Beck and work come from (as well as doing dishes and laundry)?

It's a real conundrum.

611 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:29:40pm

re: #485 Nimed

You have been around. You have seen things we wouldn't believe, horrors beyond the imagination of your typical placid lizard.
///

I've met moonbats that would turn your hair white and curly!!!!

612 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:30:32pm

re: #610 Naso Tang

Substantially less TV.

The ones of us that are really used to it game, IM, and argue on LGF all at the same time!

613 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:30:45pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist


Should the big reform synagogue in Berkeley have been denied building permits, or should the mayor have tried to get them to 'compromise' because people in the neighborhood opposed a big synagogue building project?

If it was causing major strife in the community then the mayor would be remiss if he did not encourage the parties to get together to attempt a voluntary compromise.

614 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:31:04pm

re: #500 SinisterBen

That and Raza is totally against this whole thing, so there are no bigots in this argument.

I'm willing to hear why she's opposed, I just don't see that it changes anything, or makes Pam Geller less of a screamy-mimi bigot.

615 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:33:06pm

re: #614 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm willing to hear why she's opposed, I just don't see that it changes anything, or makes Pam Geller less of a screamy-mimi bigot.

Oh, I am willing to listen as well. I am just saying but-but this Super Special Really Important to Us Now Muslim agrees with us, does not a cogent argument make.

616 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #306 Mardukhai

re: #377 Judith

Two flounces from the LGF Class of 2004 over why the vast majority of the posters here don't support proclaiming the Cordoba House/Park51 folks guilty of being Muslim within the Holy Sphere of Ground Zero and running them, tarred and feathered, out of NYC on a rail.

I'm sorry, but bigotry, xenophobia and "gulity until proven innocent" doesn't fly with me.

/don't let the door hit y'all in the ass on the way out...

617 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:36:05pm

Exclusive to LGF! RNC Convention Logo: The Wingnut Analysis!

See it here now!

618 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:36:26pm

re: #610 Naso Tang

What I don't get, cuz I'm getting old, is how so many people, influencing stock shares even, have the time to spend so much on computer/video games. Longer games than scrabble.

I know some of them still have time left over for LGF, and they seem reasonably well informed about current affairs; but where does the time for books, novels, Glenn Beck and work come from (as well as doing dishes and laundry)?

It's a real conundrum.

Personally, I really don't have the time anymore -- my fondest memories of video games all have 8+ years old. But once in a while I just HAVE to get one video game (just the one) and play it. During that time the rest of my non-professional life suffers. But it's always worth it.

619 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:37:20pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, after we've protested, threatened, mocked, screamed, and run news stories, we will sit down with you and work out a 'consensual compromise'.

What complete BS.

Why, is compromise a dirty word to you? Voluntary compromise is a good thing, especially when the parties are at each others' throats.
I call BS on anyone who prefers civil strife and litigation.

620 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:38:22pm
621 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:38:45pm

re: #616 talon_262

re: #377 Judith

Two flounces from the LGF Class of 2004 over why the vast majority of the posters here don't support proclaiming the Cordoba House/Park51 folks guilty of being Muslim within the Holy Sphere of Ground Zero and running them, tarred and feathered, out of NYC on a rail.

I'm sorry, but bigotry, xenophobia and "gulity until proven innocent" doesn't fly with me.

/don't let the door hit y'all in the ass on the way out...

Some folks can't seem to let go of the past. Others can't see past the label.

622 Gus  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:38:51pm

re: #620 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm concerned.

About me? ;)

623 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:38:53pm

re: #619 Spare O'Lake

Basic problem is that you can't compromise with people acting in bad faith.

624 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:39:45pm

re: #622 Gus 802

About me? ;)

Don't say Muslim 3 times into a mirror. I am concerned too.

625 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:39:56pm

re: #595 webevintage

My son was all fanboy annoyed and was not going to get SCll. Someone needed to "take a stand" and that "it was the principle of the thing"...until he played it.
Yeah, he owns it now...
Every time I see the poster on his wall I say "I have principles"...pisses him off.

Pissing off your kids is your God-given job, you do know that, don't you?

626 Achilles Tang  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:40:14pm

re: #612 windsagio

Substantially less TV.

The ones of us that are really used to it game, IM, and argue on LGF all at the same time!

Now I see. This is why you often ding (aling) instead of commenting. Maybe I'll take that into account in the future.

627 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:40:38pm

re: #457 WindUpBird

A majority of people in many towns opposed desegregation, that's what the guard guys with guns were for, it wasn't because they were REALLY COOL WITH IT

I guess we should have just left those schools segregated, because mob rules derp de derpity durp

Voluntary compromise is obviously not part of your vocabulary.
Too bad for NYC.

628 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:41:00pm

re: #626 Naso Tang

You're saying I don't comment enough?!?

629 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:41:55pm

re: #628 windsagio

Just remember this convo next time an Israel thread comes up >>

630 Achilles Tang  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:41:57pm

re: #626 Naso Tang

Now I see. This is why you often ding (aling) instead of commenting. Maybe I'll take that into account in the future.

What's the current game?

Thanks for proving my point. Me; I'm out to dinner.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:42:11pm

re: #572 windsagio

not a big fan of opening places of business for spite tho'.

These folks don't turn into friends just because they're spitting on the other guy for a change.

632 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:42:16pm

re: #630 Naso Tang

I live to serve :D

633 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:42:29pm

re: #574 darthstar

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so I'll explain. I was saying you didn't give a shit about Park 51/Cordoba House until you were told to give a shit by the bigots on the right. But don't worry...I think you're a good tool, and one they're happy to keep in their pocket.

Is that all you got to counter suggestions for voluntary compromise?
How sad.

634 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:42:49pm

re: #631 SanFranciscoZionist

CD didn't say, is there a serious interest in opening something like that or just a 'that'll show 'em!' kind of joke?

635 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:44:00pm

re: #623 windsagio

Basic problem is that you can't compromise with people acting in bad faith.

Actually it happens every day in the real world.

636 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:44:56pm

re: #608 avanti

Beck now comes out against the Mosque "across the street" from the 9-11 site. Just claimed they planned the dedication on 9-11-11. His problem is one of the Mosque supporters is a donor to a middle east peace group that is connected to a group that is connected to the Gaza aid flotilla group that is supported by Hamas.
If you follow the arrows on the Beck blackboard, that means the Mosque guy is obviously a Hamas terrorist. He even linked it to Kagan !

That's the Perdana Institute connection, which I could get more upset about if I didn't know a couple of rabbis who probably ended up giving money to the Gaza flotilla.

How the hell is Kagan involved in this?

637 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:45:37pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

How the hell is Kagan involved in this?

Non-sekret Jew!

638 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:45:45pm

re: #593 Killgore Trout

I was addicted to Team Fortress 2 for years. I finally stopped playing a little while ago. The Orange Box was an epic value for the price.

Valve is just so great :D

639 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:45:51pm

re: #613 Spare O'Lake

If it was causing major strife in the community then the mayor would be remiss if he did not encourage the parties to get together to attempt a voluntary compromise.

Jesus wept.

640 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:46:04pm

re: #439 ArchangelMichael

You are right. LGF has a handful of moonbats. However, there's also a handful of wingnuts (I really hate that wingnut shit btw... 'moonbat' sounds better to describe political crazy regardless of party IMO but I digress).

None of the moonbats are saying anything asinine in this thread at all. Apparently not being a raging islamophobe to the point of wanting to throw US law and tradition out the window is all that is required to be a moonbat to you.

What if you are a non-knee jerk moonbat?

641 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:46:28pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the Perdana Institute connection, which I could get more upset about if I didn't know a couple of rabbis who probably ended up giving money to the Gaza flotilla.

How the hell is Kagan involved in this?

Didn't you know that this is all a giant conspiracy, larger than the Illuminati and the Masons?

///

642 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:46:32pm

re: #633 Spare O'Lake

Is that all you got to counter suggestions for voluntary compromise?
How sad.

Voluntary compromise: "We won't desegregate ALL the schools in the south, you know, just a couple. We'll have some token blacks."

643 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:47:14pm

re: #627 Spare O'Lake

Voluntary compromise is obviously not part of your vocabulary.
Too bad for NYC.

I'm sure NYC will survive the Muslim invasion 9_9

644 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:48:03pm

re: #619 Spare O'Lake

Why, is compromise a dirty word to you? Voluntary compromise is a good thing, especially when the parties are at each others' throats.
I call BS on anyone who prefers civil strife and litigation.

Who are the 'parties' here? The neighborhood appears to want the center there.

The people objecting are (overwhelmingly) not local, and they do not get to 'compromise', especially not through intimidation.

You have been trying to figure out a way to derail this project from the beginning, and your strategies aren't improving.

645 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:49:49pm

re: #644 SanFranciscoZionist

Does anyone hear a high-pitched whistle?

646 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:50:06pm

re: #627 Spare O'Lake

Voluntary compromise is obviously not part of your vocabulary.
Too bad for NYC.

Who gets to come to the table for this? With whom is the mosque board supposed to compromise? Please be specific.

647 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:50:49pm

re: #633 Spare O'Lake

Is that all you got to counter suggestions for voluntary compromise?
How sad.

"Voluntary". How fucking sweet.

648 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:51:33pm

re: #634 windsagio

CD didn't say, is there a serious interest in opening something like that or just a 'that'll show 'em!' kind of joke?

It's just a hurr-hurr joke. They won't waste their money opening a gay bar in Lower Manhattan that no one will go to because the owners are insane and homophobic.

649 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:54:37pm

re: #639 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus wept.

Moses shlepped.

650 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:56:02pm

re: #649 Spare O'Lake

Moses shlepped.

OK. Now, who gets to sit down at the table for voluntary compromise? On one side, we have the mosque. Who is allowed to be so upset that they are asked to voluntarily compromise their building plans?

651 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:56:36pm

re: #648 SanFranciscoZionist

It's just a hurr-hurr joke. They won't waste their money opening a gay bar in Lower Manhattan that no one will go to because the owners are insane and homophobic.

Who would invest in a Muslim gay bar which is being created specifically to be both anti-Muslim and anti-gay? That is one of the dumbest business models I have ever heard.

652 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:56:53pm

re: #646 SanFranciscoZionist

Who gets to come to the table for this? With whom is the mosque board supposed to compromise? Please be specific.

Since the mosque developer is holding all the legal cards, I would say it is his call. Completely his call.

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:57:53pm

re: #651 sinisterben

Who would invest in a Muslim gay bar which is being created specifically to be both anti-Muslim and anti-gay? That is one of the dumbest business models I have ever heard.

"I shall sit here in the gay bar next to my mosque and drink a fruit juice, while the guy behind the counter makes homophobic Muslim jokes. High times!"

Somehow, I don't think this is how most potential customers are going to think.

654 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:58:38pm

re: #650 SanFranciscoZionist

OK. Now, who gets to sit down at the table for voluntary compromise? On one side, we have the mosque. Who is allowed to be so upset that they are asked to voluntarily compromise their building plans?

Half a mosque could be built. 4 blocks away.

655 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:58:57pm

re: #652 Spare O'Lake

Since the mosque developer is holding all the legal cards, I would say it is his call. Completely his call.

Spare, that makes no sense at all. He gets to decide who he voluntarily compromises with, in a neighborhood that largely supports the project, with the 'Dem Governor' helping out?

This is just more word salad. What on earth are you actually proposing happen?

656 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 2:59:23pm

re: #654 Nimed

Half a mosque could be built. 4 blocks away.

Won't the prayer rugs get wet when it rains?

657 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:00:36pm

re: #656 SanFranciscoZionist

Won't the prayer rugs get wet when it rains?

That's where the compromise comes in. They can turn off the rain there...

It makes that much sense...

658 Nimed  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:00:55pm

re: #656 SanFranciscoZionist

Won't the prayer rugs get wet when it rains?

Good point. Better build the upper half then.

659 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:05:54pm

re: #655 SanFranciscoZionist

Spare, that makes no sense at all. He gets to decide who he voluntarily compromises with, in a neighborhood that largely supports the project, with the 'Dem Governor' helping out?

This is just more word salad. What on earth are you actually proposing happen?

Salad shmalad, you heard me just fine and it makes perfect sense. No one can force the developers to sit down with anyone they don't want to speak to. If they refuse to talk to certain groups or indeed to anyone, that is their call too. It's all up to them because they are holding the legal cards.
It's real and it's very simple.

660 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:07:52pm

re: #659 Spare O'Lake

So, they should build it. Because they own it and have permits, but also, they shouldn't built it until they compromise, with ::gets really hazy here::.

So that's super clear... ::Pats Spare on the head:: It's cool man, we all need attention.

661 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:10:51pm

re: #659 Spare O'Lake

Salad shmalad, you heard me just fine and it makes perfect sense. No one can force the developers to sit down with anyone they don't want to speak to. If they refuse to talk to certain groups or indeed to anyone, that is their call too. It's all up to them because they are holding the legal cards.
It's real and it's very simple.

No, actually, you have just talked yourself in a giant circle, which effectively ends with, "Well, there should be COMPROMISE!"

With whom? Who knows? Have the mosque people met with an appropriate number of groups? Who knows? Did they refuse to meet with some people? Who knows? Is it relevent that they apparently impressed the zoning board favorably? Evidently not. Do we have any suggestions for what might happen next? Not really.

I have absolutely no idea what you are arguing for. "It's real and it's very simple" doesn't mean anything at all.

662 prairiefire  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:17:35pm

re: #660 sinister

Gee, Ben, you look so...sinister.

663 sinisterben  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 3:20:36pm

re: #662 prairiefire

Thanks? I think? Sinister has been my handle for nigh on 18 years now. Maybe I just grew into the moniker? Or maybe Aphex Twin has a great CD cover. ;)

664 Radical Rafe  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:10:42pm

OY, MY BUNIONS

665 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:17:47pm

re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist

It is liking asking Israel to compromise with the Palestinians. Which faction? Hamas? Hezbollah? PLO? IF one agrees will they all?

The simple fact is, they have a legal right. I would assume that they could talk to some, but then others would sya that those who compromised "don't speak for them" which puts this Muslim group in limbo for eternity.

Nope, they do not need to "find" someone to compromise with at all. Build the Mosque.

Though it would be awesome if they did use this for community outreach, to teach others what Islam is all about and are so transparent that no one could argue the good they are doing.

But searching to find "someone" to compromise with when they have passed all of the legal hurdles? Makes no sense in this case.

666 windsagio  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:44:40pm

re: #648 SanFranciscoZionist

It's just a hurr-hurr joke. They won't waste their money opening a gay bar in Lower Manhattan that no one will go to because the owners are insane and homophobic.

Well fuck them then. Not helping Gays or Moslems (altho that might be the point).

667 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 4:58:45pm

re: #289 Fozzie Bear

HEY LOOK GUYS A MORON

Thats "MORAN", idiot.

/

668 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 6:43:05pm
669 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 7:49:44pm

re: #668 Spare O'Lake

Sometimes you are a horse's ass.

670 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 7:51:46pm

re: #669 Reginald Perrin

Who the hell do you think you are?

You owe that Woman an apology.

671 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Aug 10, 2010 8:28:29pm

re: #669 Reginald Perrin

Wow, he did a dead thread slam? what the balls, that's stalker behavior

672 ihateronpaul  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 7:12:21am

Sean Hannity sure has a lot to say about this mosque. If mosque's start getting attacked around the country, he will definitely have at least some blood on his hands, what with him insinuating that mosques are "monuments to terrorism." Don't get me started on Rush Limbaugh declaring a "War on Muslims"....


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