Obama Clarifies: Not Commenting on the ‘Wisdom’ of Cordoba House

US News • Views: 5,127

President Obama was asked by reporters today if he had an opinion on the “wisdom” of building the Cordoba House two blocks from the former site of the World Trade Center, and replied:

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding,” Obama told reporters Saturday after delivering remarks in Panama City Beach, Fla. “That’s what our country is about.”

So, of course, now right wing bloggers are crowing that Obama is “walking back” his earlier statement; but I don’t see that at all. Obama is emphasizing that his remarks were meant to support the Constitution — which should be enough for anyone. The idea that it’s somehow “unwise” to build this project is a concept promoted by opponents, and it’s irrelevant to the Constitutional issue; it would have been neither appropriate nor productive for Obama to wade into that poisoned debate.

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929 comments
1 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:48:37pm

It isn't proper for the president to comment on the "wisdom" of this particular project, and he didn't.
The opposition has gone far beyond questioning its wisdom, however. They have demanded, and threatened, government intervention. It is proper for Obama to comment on that, and he did.

2 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:49:03pm

I think it is kinda a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for O...

3 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:51:19pm

Charles - "building" typo alert

4 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:51:21pm

re: #2 brookly red

I think it is kinda a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for O...

Try not to sound so down over it...

5 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:51:26pm

re: #2 brookly red

I think it is kinda a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for O...

Definitely.

6 abbyadams  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:53:14pm

Not to simply restate what Shiplord said, but I think that the president's response in this instance is right on the mark. The wisdom of this is subjective; the legality is objective. He is exactly correct in his support of the objective.

7 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:53:33pm

I think it's entirely right that he uses the Presidential bully pulpit to point out how ridiculous and wrong opposition to a house of worship pretty much anywhere is...

8 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:56:11pm

There's really nothing that he could have said or done to satsify them.

9 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:57:06pm

He will be accused of being a Sekrit Muslim. But it will not occur to anyone to accuse him of being a Sekrit Constitutional Scholar.

I disagree with him on many things, but not on this. Equal rights and the 1st Amendment is teh hard.

10 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:57:29pm

On this issue, a wise man, Obama is.

11 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:58:31pm

The president was pretty much pitch perfect.

12 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:58:53pm

re: #10 eclectic infidel

On this issue, a wise man, Obama is.


I will toss him that bone.

13 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 2:59:34pm

The President may have his donut now.

14 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:00:34pm

He said what needed to be said, which is that regardless of whether you think it "wise" or not, there is no legal avenue to stop the construction of the Cordoba House. Demanding that the law be changed or ignored in order to stop the construction is not in keeping without our Constitution and is a smack in the face of what our Founding Fathers intended.

I may not generally like the man, but he's all aces in my book for this statement.

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:04:32pm

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

16 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:06:51pm

re: #15 Charles

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

I think Obama might be slowly figuring out that he can't please everybody all the time and so to pick the battles he can win.

17 Lidane  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:07:09pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

There's really nothing that he could have said or done to satsify them.

Pretty much.

18 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:08:42pm

re: #15 Charles

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

THIS

THIS FOREVER

It's the biggest problem I have with my left wing friends (more left than me) is that they just have this blind idealism and they aren't educated about the realities of our political system. It's like they think Obama is king and can just pass whatever he wants, however he wants.

19 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:10:42pm

re: #15 Charles

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

Nothing changes, just the crazy side you happen to be looking at at any given moment
For the last 3 years of his Presidency the 'right" was pissed at Bush for abandoning them
Prior to that, the '"left" was pissed that Clinton was so centrist
Before that, GHW Bush didn't follow Reaganism enough for the right
etc etc

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was!

20 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:10:52pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

THIS

THIS FOREVER

It's the biggest problem I have with my left wing friends (more left than me) is that they just have this blind idealism and they aren't educated about the realities of our political system. It's like they think Obama is king and can just pass whatever he wants, however he wants.

That'll all change when I become Supreme Imperator.

21 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:10:54pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

THIS

THIS FOREVER

It's the biggest problem I have with my left wing friends (more left than me) is that they just have this blind idealism and they aren't educated about the realities of our political system. It's like they think Obama is king and can just pass whatever he wants, however he wants.

Like gas?

22 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:11:33pm

Well considering how long it takes to build something in NYC, I am thinking that this Mosque business is going to still be "an issue" in 2012... I think a sitting president as well as any hopeful contender will probably not want to commit too deeply one way or another at this point, and for good reason, no?

23 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:11:55pm

re: #2 brookly red

I think it is kinda a damned if you do damned if you don't situation for O...

Actually, the politically expedient and cynical thing would have been to not speak out about it, not put himself on the line.

Instead, he did the right thing, stood up against racists, against bigots, for the constitution, at political risk to himself, in a time where America is just wallowing in the opiate of vicious othering, tribalistic paranoia, wearing 9/11 on their sleeve like it gives them carte blanche to circle the wagons, put an asterisk in the constitution and cast out an entire religion.

He did the right thing, and it'd be nice if you could admit it.

24 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:12:11pm

re: #21 b_sharp

Like gas?

{burp}
huh!?!?

25 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:13:11pm

re: #24 sattv4u2

{burp}
huh!?!?

Here, have a burrito and a coke.

26 Lidane  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:13:43pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

THIS

THIS FOREVER

It's the biggest problem I have with my left wing friends (more left than me) is that they just have this blind idealism and they aren't educated about the realities of our political system. It's like they think Obama is king and can just pass whatever he wants, however he wants.

Tell me about it. That's probably why I stopped talking politics, even with my left wing friends, and generally confine my political debates to online forums.

My conservative friends and family drive me nuts because they'll trot out the ignorant, tired Fox News/Beck/Limbaugh/Gingrich talking points that are always so quickly debunked around here, and my left wing friends drive me nuts because, as you said, they think that the Dems and Obama have carte blanche and can just do whatever the hell they want. It's maddening.

27 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:13:58pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

THIS

THIS FOREVER

It's the biggest problem I have with my left wing friends (more left than me) is that they just have this blind idealism and they aren't educated about the realities of our political system. It's like they think Obama is king and can just pass whatever he wants, however he wants.

Oh man I know the types. Honestly, the problem with liberals and I say this as a fairly liberal guy is that we're never really satsified. Plus I can't believe some liberals are shocked that he's not a dove on Afghanistan. He never was.

28 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:14:15pm

re: #16 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think Obama might be slowly figuring out that he can't please everybody all the time and so to pick the battles he can win.

I think Obama already knew this on day one and it seems silly to portray him as a dude who is clueless about politics. :P

At the absolute least, he's already achieved a political victory (health care reform) that will go down in history, that decades of his predecessors failed to achieve. I don't think he's some babe in the woods about politics. I think he's actually doing a pretty great job considering the bugfuck insane conditions in America these days.

29 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:14:20pm

re: #23 WindUpBird

Actually, the politically expedient and cynical thing would have been to not speak out about it, not put himself on the line.

Instead, he did the right thing, stood up against racists, against bigots, for the constitution, at political risk to himself, in a time where America is just wallowing in the opiate of vicious othering, tribalistic paranoia, wearing 9/11 on their sleeve like it gives them carte blanche to circle the wagons, put an asterisk in the constitution and cast out an entire religion.

He did the right thing, and it'd be nice if you could admit it.

OK just to make you happy I will admit it, not that I ever denied it, but as you said the politically expedient and cynical thing would have been to not speak out about it... are you happy now?

30 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:14:44pm

re: #11 wozzablog

The president was pretty much pitch perfect.

Spot on. The issue of whether it is sensitive, or wise, or politic, to build "51" on its proposed site, is no business of the government or the president. Nor is it any proper concern of that government whether some people are offended, put out, aggrieved, or genuinely wounded. Nor, for that matter, whether others get a frisson out of it.

What matters is that the law be observed. If there is no legal obstacle to this project, let it proceed. Don't trump up some legal-schmegal reason why it's not legal after all, when everyone knows better.

Legal systems that work that way (think Elliot Spitzer's tenure as AG in NY) aren't legal systems. They're little empires. We're a Republic. We don't allow for little emperors.

Leave aside all talk about how wonderful our Muslim citizens are. They contribute more than the average random pick, per capita, and they commit less crime, but were it otherwise, that would have no bearing on the question. If Muslims have no rights, then what are "rights"? Merely perks of being in with the various little emperors of life under a system of men, not laws.

31 Lidane  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:15:57pm

re: #22 brookly red

Well considering how long it takes to build something in NYC, I am thinking that this Mosque business is going to still be "an issue" in 2012.

Maybe for the fanatics and wingnuts. However, for the rest of us who live in the real world, jobs and the economy trump everything else.

If the economy is still shit in 2012 and the Republicans somehow manage not to nominate a crazy person, they might have a chance to get the White House back. If things improve, all the bleating about Park51 won't matter at all.

32 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:16:02pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Oh man I know the types. Honestly, the problem with liberals and I say this as a fairly liberal guy is that we're never really satsified. Plus I can't believe some liberals are shocked that he's not a dove on Afghanistan. He never was.

Yeah! I LISTENED to the guy during the campaign, it's as if some of my friends didn't, they just tuned out anything that wasn't up their alley.

33 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:16:24pm

re: #29 brookly red

OK just to make you happy I will admit it, not that I ever denied it, but as you said the politically expedient and cynical thing would have been to not speak out about it... are you happy now?

I am!

34 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:17:03pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

Yeah! I LISTENED to the guy during the campaign, it's as if some of my friends didn't, they just tuned out anything that wasn't up their alley.

The weirdest thing is my grandmother bellyaching about Obama not withdrawing the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. She was a huge Hillary supporter in the primaries.

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:17:28pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

The weirdest thing is my grandmother bellyaching about Obama not withdrawing the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. She was a huge Hillary supporter in the primaries.

hahah Hillary is MORE of a hawk!

36 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:17:58pm

re: #1 Shiplord Kirel

It isn't proper for the president to comment on the "wisdom" of this particular project, and he didn't.

The opposition has gone far beyond questioning its wisdom, however. They have demanded, and threatened, government intervention. It is proper for Obama to comment on that, and he did.

Absolutely spot on, every bit of your comment.

37 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:18:27pm

re: #15 Charles

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

And he never was a far lefty. I think people saw what they wanted to in Obama. Maybe that is because a lot of his positions are nuanced.
But he always said he would increase troops in Afghanistan, never promised a public option (though he preferred it), and many other things that the far left are against.
Yes he made promises who couldn't keep...Gitmo, is a big one. DADT still in place.
But he has accomplished an amazing amount of big legislation in a hostile political climate.

38 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:19:01pm

re: #31 Lidane

Maybe for the fanatics and wingnuts. However, for the rest of us who live in the real world, jobs and the economy trump everything else.

If the economy is still shit in 2012 and the Republicans somehow manage not to nominate a crazy person, they might have a chance to get the White House back. If things improve, all the bleating about Park51 won't matter at all.

I agree jobs and the economy trump everything else. I do however predict this is not going to go away quickly...

39 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:19:53pm

re: #37 blueraven

And he never was a far lefty. I think people saw what they wanted to in Obama. Maybe that is because a lot of his positions are nuanced.
But he always said he would increase troops in Afghanistan, never promised a public option (though he preferred it), and many other things that the far left are against.
Yes he made promises who couldn't keep...Gitmo, is a big one. DADT still in place.
But he has accomplished an amazing amount of big legislation in a hostile political climate.

I never thought Gitmo would just magically close after Obama was elected, that seemed like it was just never gonna happen. DADT, I think he's doing about as much as he can do, if he gets rid of it during his term at all, he's done a huge thing.

40 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:20:06pm

re: #25 b_sharp

Here, have a burrito and a coke.

And some broccoli, beans, and crab cake.

41 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:20:10pm

re: #35 WindUpBird

hahah Hillary is MORE of a hawk!

well please allow me to "kill you with kindness"... I agree.

42 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:20:26pm

Obama's comment is clear enough. His no comment on the "wisdom" of putting it there echoes the vast majority who do question the wisdom of putting it there.
He would not have made this qualifier about "the wisdom" if he fully believed it was a wise thing to do.

43 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:20:27pm

Next up. The new mosque's purple paisley and bright orange paint scheme;

Is it offensive?

Should it be banned by law?

What is the Presidents stance on obese people getting tattoos?

44 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:20:41pm

re: #40 eclectic infidel

And some broccoli, beans, and crab cake.

crab cakes? where?

45 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:21:00pm

re: #37 blueraven

in a hostile political climate.

You had me right up till then

At the start, he had HUGE approval numbers and the dems controlled both houses

Did he have detractors on the other side? Of course! In the media? Yup
But he also had support there as well

46 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:21:21pm

re: #42 captdiggs

Obama's comment is clear enough. His no comment on the "wisdom" of putting it there echoes the vast majority who do question the wisdom of putting it there.
He would not have made this qualifier about "the wisdom" if he fully believed it was a wise thing to do.

Bullshit

47 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:21:38pm

re: #44 brookly red

crab cakes? where?

Most seafood restaurants here in the Bay Area serve 'em as appetizers.

48 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:22:06pm

I actually do see it as something of a walk back. Instead of making it absolutely clear that the group had every right to build at the site and that the US constitution supports not only the free exercise of religion, but the right to criticize the proposal and leaving it at that, he phrased his response in such a way that it can be seen as walking back.

A much stronger statement would have been merely to say the following:

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding,” Obama told reporters Saturday after delivering remarks in Panama City Beach, Fla. “That’s what our country is about.”

Meanwhile, as people are wondering whether stuff will be built or not, timeframes for building and progress at Ground Zero, the Freedom Tower (1WTC) is 34 stories tall, and adding 3 stories a week. That means by the end of the year, we're looking at the tower approaching 1,000 feet.

49 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:22:07pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

Yeah! I LISTENED to the guy during the campaign, it's as if some of my friends didn't, they just tuned out anything that wasn't up their alley.

I think most leftys who think like this live in safe blue states or regions. Here in swing country, we tend to savor the battles we win and eat our ideals best we can while realizing to actually get anything accomplished requires compromise, good faith and the ability to recognize that ones politics doesn't necessarily determine if they are a douchebag.

50 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:22:35pm

What's funny to me is that the two extremes seem like this. You have one side who thinks Obama is a socialist and another that wishes he was a socialist.

51 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:22:38pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

in a hostile political climate.

You had me right up till then

At the start, he had HUGE approval numbers and the dems controlled both houses

Did he have detractors on the other side? Of course! In the media? Yup
But he also had support there as well

Right! Waterloo...filibuster everything...just say no

52 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:22:56pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

in a hostile political climate.

You had me right up till then

At the start, he had HUGE approval numbers and the dems controlled both houses

Did he have detractors on the other side? Of course! In the media? Yup
But he also had support there as well

you don't think what was done by lobbying groups and GOP luminaries to try and defeat HCR was a hostile political climate?

53 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:23:06pm

re: #46 blueraven

So why did he feel the need to make any comment on "the wisdom" of putting it there?
He could have just left it at the constitutional level he had so carefully constructed.

54 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:23:19pm

re: #37 blueraven

And he never was a far lefty. I think people saw what they wanted to in Obama. Maybe that is because a lot of his positions are nuanced.
But he always said he would increase troops in Afghanistan, never promised a public option (though he preferred it), and many other things that the far left are against.
Yes he made promises who couldn't keep...Gitmo, is a big one. DADT still in place.
But he has accomplished an amazing amount of big legislation in a hostile political climate.

Some of which will be a cross we'll have to deal with when it comes up.
I am hoping some of it will be a boon. We'll see.

55 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:23:45pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

What's funny to me is that the two extremes seem like this. You have one side who thinks Obama is a socialist and another that wishes he was a socialist.

And here I am, the boring guy who voted for a moderate Democrat and got a moderate democrat, laughing at everyone who wants to portray him as an EXTREMIST!!SOCIALIST!11MARXIST!11 because I guess hyperbole grows on trees :D

56 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:24:03pm

re: #42 captdiggs

Obama's comment is clear enough. His no comment on the "wisdom" of putting it there echoes the vast majority who do question the wisdom of putting it there.
He would not have made this qualifier about "the wisdom" if he fully believed it was a wise thing to do.

LOL. He was asked about the wisdom, how could he not opine on it.

57 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:24:25pm

re: #52 WindUpBird

you don't think what was done by lobbying groups and GOP luminaries to try and defeat HCR was a hostile political climate?

What part of Did he have detractors on the other side? Of course! In the media? Yup didn't you get?

58 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:24:33pm

re: #52 WindUpBird

you don't think what was done by lobbying groups and GOP luminaries to try and defeat HCR was a hostile political climate?

don't you think hostile political climate is like an oxymoron?

59 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:24:52pm

re: #48 lawhawk

I take a statement like "I'm not commenting and will not comment" on a subject to mean that he isn't commenting on the subject. I understand it could be parsed other ways, but prima facie it isn't a walk-back.

60 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:25:09pm

re: #58 brookly red

More of a tautology >>

61 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:25:13pm

re: #53 captdiggs

So why did he feel the need to make any comment on "the wisdom" of putting it there?

Because that's what he was asked.

62 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:25:18pm

re: #58 brookly red

don't you think hostile political climate is like an oxymoron?

no my bad... a double negative. yeah that's it!

63 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:25:40pm

re: #56 Jeff In Ohio

Obama is a very eloquent speaker and a lawyer. He surely could have evaded.
Or, he also could have endorsed the location, which he did not.

64 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:25:53pm

re: #55 WindUpBird

And here I am, the boring guy who voted for a moderate Democrat and got a moderate democrat, laughing at everyone who wants to portray him as an EXTREMIST!!SOCIALIST!11MARXIST!11 because I guess hyperbole grows on trees :D

It grows on trees that people intentionally, cynically planted >>

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:07pm

re: #53 captdiggs

So why did he feel the need to make any comment on "the wisdom" of putting it there?
He could have just left it at the constitutional level he had so carefully constructed.

he is addressing what Americans are saying (uninformed idiot rube Americans who have never been to Manhattan and have no idea about its culture), it bears no indication on what Obama himself thinks.


The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can even with a straight face delude himself into thinking he should have a say about what places of worship can and cannot be in downtown Manhattan, it's just unreal to me, it's like C.O.B.R.A unleased a stupidity gas across the country.

66 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:08pm

re: #60 windsagio

More of a tautology >>

kinda like a dangerous war zone...

67 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:09pm

re: #53 captdiggs

So why did he feel the need to make any comment on "the wisdom" of putting it there?
He could have just left it at the constitutional level he had so carefully constructed.

Because he was specifically asked about his opinion on "the wisdom." It's all there in plain English at the top of the article.

68 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:30pm

re: #56 Jeff In Ohio

LOL. He was asked about the wisdom, how could he not opine on it.

HE MENTIONED A THING, QUICK LET'S DECONSTRUCT IT TO ITS COMPONENT ATOMS

69 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:30pm

re: #37 blueraven

And he never was a far lefty. I think people saw what they wanted to in Obama. Maybe that is because a lot of his positions are nuanced.
. . .
.

Now, that particular opinion may differ based on where you sat during the election.

Many of the flounced were truly fearful of what was going to happen when Obama took office. They truly were, truly believed he was a socialist and was going to wreak havoc and destroy this country.

I have my own issues with this administration, and there are certainly situations that many are not all pleased about (economy, unemployment), but I believe we are nothing if not resilient, and there is limited "damage" (or good) any one President can do during the course of a 4-year or 8-year administration.

Every President I've ever seen has done well in some things, poorly in others. It's just how it is. And we survive just fine.

70 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:34pm

re: #63 captdiggs

Obama is a very eloquent speaker and a lawyer. He surely could have evaded.
Or, he also could have endorsed the location, which he did not.

He didn't comment on it precisely because of the kind of thing you are doing right now.

71 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:37pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior


Best Comment Ever

72 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:26:45pm

re: #67 goddamnedfrank

Because he was specifically asked about his opinion on "the wisdom." It's all there in plain English at the top of the article.

Reading is fundamental! :D

73 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:27:24pm

re: #63 captdiggs

Obama is a very eloquent speaker and a lawyer. He surely could have evaded.
Or, he also could have endorsed the location, which he did not.

No, he endorsed the locals to make their own siting decisions by not commenting on their wisdom.

74 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:27:49pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

he is addressing what Americans are saying (uninformed idiot rube Americans who have never been to Manhattan and have no idea about its culture), it bears no indication on what Obama himself thinks.

The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can even with a straight face delude himself into thinking he should have a say about what places of worship can and cannot be in downtown Manhattan, it's just unreal to me, it's like C.O.B.R.A unleased a stupidity gas across the country.

if this is your way of telling me you have moved to NYC I am not amused...

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:28:10pm

re: #49 Jeff In Ohio

I think most leftys who think like this live in safe blue states or regions. Here in swing country, we tend to savor the battles we win and eat our ideals best we can while realizing to actually get anything accomplished requires compromise, good faith and the ability to recognize that ones politics doesn't necessarily determine if they are a douchebag.

I live in the bluest city in the country besides SF, and I'm with you! :D

Of course, I was raised by a lawyer, so I was from a very young age taught about How This Shit Works with regard to the law, and politics, and manipulation of opinion.

76 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:28:13pm

re: #53 captdiggs

So why did he feel the need to make any comment on "the wisdom" of putting it there?
He could have just left it at the constitutional level he had so carefully constructed.

You do know what no comment means right?

Then why do you say:
"He would not have made this qualifier about "the wisdom" if he fully believed it was a wise thing to do."

No it does not signify that at all.

77 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:28:26pm

re: #73 Jeff In Ohio

No, he endorsed the locals to make their own siting decisions by not commenting on their wisdom.

I like that the argument is 'HE SHOULD HAVE WEASELED OUT OF IT!"

Its wonderfully goofy.

78 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:28:48pm

re: #74 brookly red

if this is your way of telling me you have moved to NYC I am not amused...

Oh i could never do NYC. The beer's not as good, it's too crowded, and I like to drive too much :D

79 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:29:21pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Also, the people are stuck way up their own ass.

80 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:29:48pm

re: #70 Charles

He didn't comment on it precisely because of the kind of thing you are doing right now.

But he did not endorse the location. He could have done that.
It could have been quite a powerful statement, but he chose not to.

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:03pm

re: #79 windsagio

Also, the people are stuck way up their own ass.

You said that, not me! :D


But yeah, I've been to the east coast enough to know that the vibe of the east coast just does not get along with me. Just cannot do it.

82 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:04pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

he is addressing what Americans are saying (uninformed idiot rube Americans who have never been to Manhattan and have no idea about its culture), it bears no indication on what Obama himself thinks.

The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can even with a straight face delude himself into thinking he should have a say about what places of worship can and cannot be in downtown Manhattan, it's just unreal to me, it's like C.O.B.R.A unleased a stupidity gas across the country.

I've never been to Manhattan. And honestly, I couldn't care less about Manhattan "culture".

It's not about Manhattan. It's about the protections afforded all of us in the constitution.

83 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:14pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Oh i could never do NYC. The beer's not as good, it's too crowded, and I like to drive too much :D

yes it is awful, you would hate it, better to say far away.

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:17pm

re: #80 captdiggs

But he did not endorse the location. He could have done that.
It could have been quite a powerful statement, but he chose not to.

CONCERRRRRNED

85 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:23pm

re: #77 windsagio

I like that the argument is 'HE SHOULD HAVE WEASELED OUT OF IT!"

Its wonderfully goofy.

Why be reasonable when you can be weaselnable.

I invented a new word!

86 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:44pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Oh i could never do NYC. The beer's not as good, it's too crowded, and I like to drive too much :D

Yeah, but do the other people on the road around you like you driving too much?

(my uncle ,, worse driver EVER used to boast that he never got into an accident,, our retort was ,,"Yeah, but Uncle Joe, what about the hundreds you caused!!??))

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:52pm

re: #83 brookly red

yes it is awful, you would hate it, better to say far away.

don't worry dude, I plan on owning a house and an art studio, hard to do that in the NY market

88 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:30:56pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Oh i could never do NYC. The beer's not as good, it's too crowded, and I like to drive too much :D

Beer's not good? Oh boy... And there are more than a few places in the City where you can obtain nearly any beer produced on the planet.

There's a growing craft brew movement in and around NYC, but you've got to know where to look.

I can concede on the crowded part, but even driving can be quite fun. I find driving in NYC traffic to be stress relief.

89 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:31:12pm

re: #79 windsagio

Also, the people are stuck way up their own ass.

At least you don't broadbrush!

90 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:31:23pm

re: #85 Jeff In Ohio

Why be reasonable when you can be weaselnable.

I invented a new word!

It ruins their whole mythology about how poltiicians work, when one answers 'trap' questions like that outright.

91 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:31:40pm

That's what I like about the south Phil Harris

Youtube Video
92 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:31:58pm

re: #89 sattv4u2

At least you don't broadbrush!

"How do you ask if someone's from NYC? You don't have to, they'll tell you in the first 3 sentences!"

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:32:02pm

re: #86 sattv4u2

Yeah, but do the other people on the road around you like you driving too much?

(my uncle ,, worse driver EVER used to boast that he never got into an accident,, our retort was ,,"Yeah, but Uncle Joe, what about the hundreds you caused!!??))

The one guy I pass at 2am when i'm winding out my GTI on Mt Hood? :D I don't drive in traffic, so it's not really a problem for me, i do all my errands at night

94 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:32:28pm

re: #53 captdiggs
re: #65 WindUpBird

he is addressing what Americans are saying (uninformed idiot rube Americans who have never been to Manhattan and have no idea about its culture), it bears no indication on what Obama himself thinks.

The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can even with a straight face delude himself into thinking he should have a say about what places of worship can and cannot be in downtown Manhattan, it's just unreal to me, it's like C.O.B.R.A unleased a stupidity gas across the country.

The guy i mentioned a couple of threads back is from Nowhereville in SC.

95 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:32:38pm

re: #93 WindUpBird

The one guy I pass at 2am when i'm winding out my GTI on Mt Hood? :D I don't drive in traffic, so it's not really a problem for me, i do all my errands at night

Another reason why Seattle isn't acceptable, let alone NYC >

96 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:32:42pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can

Your contempt for a large segment of Americans is noted.
Not that it wasn't obvious before.

97 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:32:42pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

And I have been to Manhattan (work a block from Ground Zero, 3 blocks from the proposed mosque); was in NYC on 9/11, etc. etc. etc., and I'm here to tell you that many Manhattanites share the same culture as everyone else. They just want to go about their business. Some just do it more loudly and ostentatiously than others. And it's a whole lot more expensive.

98 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:34:04pm

re: #96 captdiggs

Your contempt for a large segment of Americans is noted.
Not that it wasn't obvious before.

Yup, that's what you should get from that post. Yup.

99 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:34:17pm

What I find funny about the whole thing is most of these conservative critics of the center like to pride themselves as "10th amendment" people. I never really thought about it until now but I find that kinda funny.

100 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:34:28pm

re: #80 captdiggs

But he did not endorse the location. He could have done that.
It could have been quite a powerful statement, but he chose not to.

Let me guess, you believe that his lack of endorsement is itself proof that he doesn't agree with the "wisdom" of putting it there, right?

101 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:34:49pm

re: #94 wozzablog

don't know why CaptDiggs is replied to in that as well.

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:34:50pm

re: #88 lawhawk

Beer's not good? Oh boy... And there are more than a few places in the City where you can obtain nearly any beer produced on the planet.

There's a growing craft brew movement in and around NYC, but you've got to know where to look.

I can concede on the crowded part, but even driving can be quite fun. I find driving in NYC traffic to be stress relief.

There's good beers in NYC! Never said their weren't! (Ommegang is my favorite NY beer) But it's not Portland. We're literally inventing new styles of beer (Cascade dark ale!) that are recognized internationally here.

Portland is the best city in America for beer, it's obsessed with beer, it has a homebrew culture, it has a DIY craft vibe. Maine has its lobster, Alaska has its salmon, Portland has beer :D

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:35:07pm

re: #95 windsagio

Another reason why Seattle isn't acceptable, let alone NYC >

yeah Seattle got too crowded :P

104 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:35:27pm

re: #97 lawhawk

That is called, "damning with faint praise".

Analogue world beacons

105 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:35:40pm

re: #96 captdiggs

Your contempt for a large segment of Americans is noted.
Not that it wasn't obvious before.

He wasn't talking about me again was he? He's been pissed since I suggested he liked going to stripper bars for the sexual irony.

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:35:52pm

re: #96 captdiggs

Your contempt for a large segment of Americans is noted.
Not that it wasn't obvious before.

wassamatter, are you concerrrrrned?

PLEASE WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE UNEDUCATED BIGOTS?!?!?

107 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:36:10pm

Isn't this Sean Hannitys old buddy?

108 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:36:12pm

And now to remind everyone how beautiful life can be, it's time for some feline cuteness.

109 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:36:18pm

re: #106 WindUpBird

wassamatter, are you concerrrned?

PLEASE WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE UNEDUCATED BIGOTS?!?!?

Call them "Real Americans", please.

110 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:36:32pm

re: #106 WindUpBird

"bitter clingers" is good too :D

111 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:36:42pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

I've yet to make it out to Portland, so I'll have to check that out... and Ommegang is a great brewery to check out in person (now owned by the folks who make Duvel btw). There's a Cooperstown brewing/winery tour that hits the local places - highly recommended in the fall for catching the leaves turning.

112 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:37:35pm

re: #98 windsagio

Yup, that's what you should get from that post. Yup.

It did sorta stick out like a sore thumb, much like your broadbrush of New Yorkers

113 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:37:42pm

re: #15 Charles

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

What did they expect? Rehabilitation for al-Awlaki?

114 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:01pm

re: #107 Amory Blaine

Third time was the charm... they nailed Hal Turner on those hate crimes charges of threatening the federal judges out in Chicago.

115 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:02pm

re: #110 windsagio

"bitter clingers" is good too :D

i'm an urbanite drinker and i cling on to my pint of bitter...........

116 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:06pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout

Now, that particular opinion may differ based on where you sat during the election.

Many of the flounced were truly fearful of what was going to happen when Obama took office. They truly were, truly believed he was a socialist and was going to wreak havoc and destroy this country.

I have my own issues with this administration, and there are certainly situations that many are not all pleased about (economy, unemployment), but I believe we are nothing if not resilient, and there is limited "damage" (or good) any one President can do during the course of a 4-year or 8-year administration.

Every President I've ever seen has done well in some things, poorly in others. It's just how it is. And we survive just fine.


I guess when I think of Far Left, I think
anti war (any war)
Pro gay rights, Marriage (also center politically)
anti-government intelligence and surveillance
anti military

Obama was not very much in line with these positions. Even though he supports gay rights, he said marriage is a man and a woman.
Nuanced though, in that he would not support a ban on gay marriage.

The Far Left would have preferred he nationalized the banks rather than a bailout. I just never considered him far left.

117 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:07pm

re: #72 WindUpBird

Reading is fundamental! :D

It's also fun, and metal:

Youtube Video

Another Blöödhag reference, bask in it.

118 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:09pm

re: #112 sattv4u2

I know you're only humorless when you wanna be satt, but its kinda obvoius right now :p

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:27pm

re: #97 lawhawk

And I have been to Manhattan (work a block from Ground Zero, 3 blocks from the proposed mosque); was in NYC on 9/11, etc. etc. etc., and I'm here to tell you that many Manhattanites share the same culture as everyone else. They just want to go about their business. Some just do it more loudly and ostentatiously than others. And it's a whole lot more expensive.

I'm referring to the Muslims who work around ground zero, or who worked IN the WTC, and who are obviously a large part of the cultural fabric in the area. As opposed to people in towns a thousand miles away who have probably never met anyone of Muslim descent.

Big difference between a town with no Muslim presence whatsoever in the Heartland, and manhattan.

120 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:38:41pm

re: #112 sattv4u2

It did sorta stick out like a sore thumb, much like your broadbrush of New Yorkers

ehhh same as every thing else... it's a style thing I guess.

121 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:39:12pm

re: #107 Amory Blaine

Isn't this Sean Hannitys old buddy?

Yup.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:39:28pm

re: #111 lawhawk

I've yet to make it out to Portland, so I'll have to check that out... and Ommegang is a great brewery to check out in person (now owned by the folks who make Duvel btw). There's a Cooperstown brewing/winery tour that hits the local places - highly recommended in the fall for catching the leaves turning.

If I visit NY, Ommegang is like first on the list, I am so there. :D

123 swamprat  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:39:32pm

re: #104 swamprat

That is called, "damning with faint praise".

Analogue world beacons.


Dingos had eaten my post

124 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:39:47pm

re: #88 lawhawk

I find driving in NYC traffic to be stress relief.

You, sir, are clearly an alien.

125 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:40:16pm

re: #107 Amory Blaine

Isn't this Sean Hannitys old buddy?

so?

126 Cheechako  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:40:17pm

It's just too nice a day in Se Alaska to not share the beauty:

Mendenhall Glacier

Note all the icebergs in the lake. This glacier is in retreat mode.

127 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:40:24pm

re: #96 captdiggs

Your contempt for a large segment of Americans is noted.
Not that it wasn't obvious before.

So you're saying that a large segment of the country is comprised of ignorant hicks? Really? You think Americans are that dumb? So where is the contempt coming from now, captn?

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:40:25pm

re: #124 Fozzie Bear

You, sir, are clearly an alien.

I get angry in PORTLAND traffic! And portland traffic is nothing :D

129 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:40:42pm

re: #127 eclectic infidel

So you're saying that a large segment of the country is comprised of ignorant hicks? Really? You think Americans are that dumb? So where is the contempt coming from now, captn?

ahahahaha dying

130 abbyadams  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:41:00pm

re: #15 Charles

They were NOT PAYING ATTENTION. I saw candidate Obama when he came to my neck o' the woods. I'm completely frustrated by those more left than me who feel betrayed. He laid out many of his policies in the town hall, and there were just nothing extremely left about them. Some people bought into the hype that he was sooooo liberal. They didn't notice the source of that particular meme, I reckon.

131 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:41:02pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

Yeah, there are already two mosques near Ground Zero - and there's a significant number of Muslims working in and around Lower Manhattan. See 'em all the time.

132 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:41:17pm

re: #118 windsagio

I know you're only humorless when you wanna be satt, but its kinda obvoius right now :p

Lets call "fly over" country people

hick shitheads

and New Yorkers as

people who are stuck way up their own ass

.

Oh,, what humor !!!

133 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:41:51pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Oh I get it, you're oh so concerned that I'll be unfair to New Yorkers.

You can do better than that :P

134 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:41:55pm

re: #122 WindUpBird

I'd also recommend Blue Point Brewing Company out on Long Island (which isn't far from going out to the Forks for the wineries, if you're into that - or to Fire Island / Jones Beach if you're a nature lover).

135 Dan M.  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:42:11pm

Of course they have every right to build the mosque there. Obama could have said that very simply. By focusing only on the Constitutional issue, you ignore the reasonable voices that simply think that building a mosque 200 yards from Ground Zero is at best insensitive and at worst a deliberate provocation.

It has been claimed that the mosque was supposed to open on 9/11/11. Was that made up by right-wing mosque opponents or is that true? If it is true, I don't see how anyone could argue with the position that it's at best insensitive. If it's not true, I would appreciate some refutation of the original claim if it exists. However, if the claim is also completely unsubstantiated, I will also accept that as evidence that it is likely untrue.

136 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:42:13pm

re: #133 windsagio

Oh I get it, you're oh so concerned that I'll be unfair to New Yorkers.

You can do better than that :P

Unfortunately, you can't!

137 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:42:25pm

Quick, people are saying things we don't like, lets manufacture some outrage!

138 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:42:45pm

re: #124 Fozzie Bear

It would explain a great many things... :)

139 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:43:03pm

Obama's statement on this is fine by me. The builder of the mosque is entitled to do this, but no project of this magnitude (religious or otherwise) is necessarily wise. It was a solidly worded statement that allows people to see the nuance if they so choose.

140 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:43:25pm

re: #137 windsagio

Quick, people are saying things we don't like, lets manufacture some outrage!

i'm outraged by your lack of outrage at the outrage

141 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:43:35pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Lets call "fly over" country people

and New Yorkers as

.

Oh,, what humor !!!

don't stop him when he is on a roll

142 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:43:43pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout

Now, that particular opinion may differ based on where you sat during the election.

Many of the flounced were truly fearful of what was going to happen when Obama took office. They truly were, truly believed he was a socialist and was going to wreak havoc and destroy this country.

[...]

This is not meant as a personal dig at you, I just wonder: will any of these people be a bit more skeptical about the hysteria next time?

143 Dan M.  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:44:10pm

Sarah Palin now acknowledges that they have a right to build there, after losing at all efforts to encourage the use of government power to prevent them from building there.

144 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:44:22pm

re: #142 Cato the Elder

This is not meant as a personal dig at you, I just wonder: will any of these people be a bit more skeptical about the hysteria next time?

I'm hoping, I really want to believe this is the final breaking point of the hate machine.

145 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:44:35pm

re: #143 Dan M.

Sarah Palin now acknowledges that they have a right to build there, after losing at all efforts to encourage the use of government power to prevent them from building there.

Well, bless her heart.

146 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:45:11pm

re: #125 brookly red

so?


Well, I figures that since the Mosque issue is fronted by seething bigots, I found it interesting that one of their heroes, Hal Turner, will be rotting soon in federal prison for being a psychopath. And wasn't/isn't he a friend of Sean Hannity?

147 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:45:28pm

re: #129 WindUpBird

ahahahaha dying

You're also a bigot. Which is quite ironic considering the nature of the mosque argument.

148 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:45:50pm

re: #147 captdiggs

You're also a bigot. Which is quite ironic considering the nature of the mosque argument.

"Those Negroes are the actual racists!"

149 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:46:28pm

re: #144 windsagio

I'm hoping, I really want to believe this is the final breaking point of the hate machine.

Oh, please, people up to and including Randall Terry are yet to be on contract at CNN - this ain't over yet until they have run through 'em all down in Atlanta.

150 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:46:31pm

re: #146 Amory Blaine

Well, I figures that since the Mosque issue is fronted by seething bigots, I found it interesting that one of their heroes, Hal Turner, will be rotting soon in federal prison for being a psychopath. And wasn't/isn't he a friend of Sean Hannity?

well it's not like he bombed the Pentagon or something, sheesh

151 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:46:46pm

re: #139 _RememberTonyC

I'm curious. No project of this magnitude? It's a 13 story building and maybe 100,000 sf of space. That's small in comparison to many projects nearby, including a recently completed hotel overlooking Ground Zero on the south; a major residential building behind the former Deutsche Bank building, or Gehry's major skyscraper four blocks away to the East (and which is taller than the Woolworth building (tallest building in lower Manhattan until the Freedom Tower goes up).

As far as magnitude is concerned, this is chump change for projects in NYC.

It's because of who's involved in the project that makes it significant. The size and scope isn't.

152 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:47:17pm

re: #148 windsagio

Fits the definition perfectly

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

153 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:47:17pm

re: #149 wozzablog

Oh, please, people up to and including Randall Terry are yet to be on contract at CNN - this ain't over yet until they have run through 'em all down in Atlanta.

Lol cynic >>

I didn't say it was likely ;)

154 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:47:32pm

re: #147 captdiggs

You're also a bigot. Which is quite ironic considering the nature of the mosque argument.

Critisicing the willfully ignorant and inexcusably under informed for being such is not bigoted.

155 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:48:59pm

re: #154 wozzablog

Its funny because its almost 100% pushback. He's feeling threatened because the people he shares beliefs with are being called bigoted, so his best solution is to say 'no, you're the real bigot!'

156 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:49:52pm

re: #151 lawhawk

As far as magnitude is concerned, this is chump change for projects in NYC

Yeah, but does Tony Soprano have the concrete and waste management contracts !?!?

//

157 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #135 Dan M.

Of course they have every right to build the mosque there. Obama could have said that very simply. By focusing only on the Constitutional issue, you ignore the reasonable voices that simply think that building a mosque 200 yards from Ground Zero is at best insensitive and at worst a deliberate provocation.

It has been claimed that the mosque was supposed to open on 9/11/11. Was that made up by right-wing mosque opponents or is that true? If it is true, I don't see how anyone could argue with the position that it's at best insensitive. If it's not true, I would appreciate some refutation of the original claim if it exists. However, if the claim is also completely unsubstantiated, I will also accept that as evidence that it is likely untrue.

A great many things are 200 yards from Ground Zero. Retail, a strip club (perhaps a wee bit further), and millions of square feet of office space. Oh, and several churches, including one flattened by the collapsing towers and still awaiting disposition by the Port Authority to rebuild (St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Church).

The proposed center was never going to open on 9/11/2011 - that was a lie concocted by Andrea Peyser at the NY Post in an op-ed and completely unsourced to anyone involved in the project. It was surmised that the project might have a groundbreaking on 9/11 of this year, but that too was never sourced to anyone involved in the project.

158 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:50:26pm

re: #135 Dan M.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Beck, Geller push falsehood that Ground Zero "mosque" will open on September 11

Glenn Beck and Pamela Geller advanced the false claim that the New York City Islamic cultural center will open on September 11, 2011. In fact, both the executive director of one of the groups spearheading the project, as well as the Imam involved, have flatly denied that the center is slated to open on September 11.

159 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:50:36pm

re: #151 lawhawk

I'm curious. No project of this magnitude? It's a 13 story building and maybe 100,000 sf of space. That's small in comparison to many projects nearby, including a recently completed hotel overlooking Ground Zero on the south; a major residential building behind the former Deutsche Bank building, or Gehry's major skyscraper four blocks away to the East (and which is taller than the Woolworth building (tallest building in lower Manhattan until the Freedom Tower goes up).

As far as magnitude is concerned, this is chump change for projects in NYC.

It's because of who's involved in the project that makes it significant. The size and scope isn't.

of course ... i was basically saying Obama said it well, and by not commenting on the "wisdom" of anything, he was allowing himself wiggle room with those who might want to twist his thoughts. as for the financial wisdom of a $100,000,000 project, isn't any project of that pricetag potentially unwise due to cost overruns, etc?

160 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:50:54pm

re: #143 Dan M.

Sarah Palin now acknowledges that they have a right to build there, after losing at all efforts to encourage the use of government power to prevent them from building there.

But let me guess, she's going with the "It's insensitive!!!!" argument, like so many others, who now have realized they have no legal tools left to stand in the way and so are now trying to fan the flames of public disapproval by asserting that refusing to bow to demands by bigots to move or cancel the construction is proof that Rauf and his supporters are not acting in good faith and don't really care about dialogue.

161 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:51:09pm

The president, in my view, did not ever mean to directly address the mosque in New York. He can't, really: it's a local issue that has at least for now been decided at the local level. It would take quite a while for things to get to the where he could, would or should express himself on the subject.

What he needed to do, and what he did as near perfectly as possible, was to address the efflorescence of ugly, un-American religious and ethnic intolerance that is cropping up all around the country like some kind of poisonous plant. He reminded us what the First Amendment is all about, and he did it firmly, with humor and a history lesson.

And it was about damn time.

162 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:51:43pm

re: #154 wozzablog

Critisicing the willfully ignorant and inexcusably under informed for being such is not bigoted.

Particularly when their lack of research is affected by their prejudice against Muslims.

163 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:51:44pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

The president, in my view, did not ever mean to directly address the mosque in New York. He can't, really: it's a local issue that has at least for now been decided at the local level. It would take quite a while for things to get to the where he could, would or should express himself on the subject.

What he needed to do, and what he did as near perfectly as possible, was to address the efflorescence of ugly, un-American religious and ethnic intolerance that is cropping up all around the country like some kind of poisonous plant. He reminded us what the First Amendment is all about, and he did it firmly, with humor and a history lesson.

And it was about damn time.

Reminds me why I voted for him.

164 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:52:08pm

re: #135 Dan M.

Of course they have every right to build the mosque there. Obama could have said that very simply. By focusing only on the Constitutional issue, you ignore the reasonable voices that simply think that building a mosque 200 yards from Ground Zero is at best insensitive and at worst a deliberate provocation.

Except the voices that object haven't exactly proven to be reasonable.

165 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:52:19pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

he is addressing what Americans are saying (uninformed idiot rube Americans who have never been to Manhattan and have no idea about its culture), it bears no indication on what Obama himself thinks.

The idea that some hick shithead in the middle of the country can even with a straight face delude himself into thinking he should have a say about what places of worship can and cannot be in downtown Manhattan, it's just unreal to me, it's like C.O.B.R.A unleased a stupidity gas across the country.

COOOBBBRRRAAA!!!

166 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:53:12pm

re: #135 Dan M.

It has been claimed that the mosque was supposed to open on 9/11/11. Was that made up by right-wing mosque opponents or is that true? If it is true, I don't see how anyone could argue with the position that it's at best insensitive. If it's not true, I would appreciate some refutation of the original claim if it exists. However, if the claim is also completely unsubstantiated, I will also accept that as evidence that it is likely untrue.

Yes, having just recently gotten landmark preservation board permission to demolish the existing Burlington Coat Factory building, without any real design or construction blueprints, they have firm plans to be open on a specific date a little over a year away. How credulous are you?

167 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:53:34pm

re: #159 _RememberTonyC

of course ... i was basically saying Obama said it well, and by not commenting on the "wisdom" of anything, he was allowing himself wiggle room with those who might want to twist his thoughts. as for the financial wisdom of a $100,000,000 project, isn't any project of that pricetag potentially unwise due to cost overruns, etc?

Greg Sargent said it best:

Many opponents of the project have been employing a clever little dodge. They say they don't question the group's legal right to build it under the Constitution. Rather, they say, they're merely criticizing the group's decision to do so, on the grounds that it's insensitive to 9/11 families and will undercut the project's goal of reconciliation. The group has the right to build the center, runs this argument, but they are wrong to exercise it.

168 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:53:48pm

heading to the Infinity Ballroom in Norfolk, CT tonight for dinner ... has anyone been there? Shelby Lynne is playing.

169 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:53:51pm

Looking at google news. Apparently some shithead GOP congressional candidate in Kansas slurred his Indian American candidate. So when you can't win with ideas, I guess the only answer is a turban joke. Indian food by the way is awesome.

170 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:54:47pm

My favorite complaint about this:
Why did he make that comment?

Ummm, because a reporter asked him that specific question....

New Palin blather:
@ SarahPalinUSA
9/11 mosque=act of fitna, "equivalent to bldg Serbian Orthodox church@Srebrenica killing fields where Muslims were slaughtered" - Raza&Fatah

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?
and what does fitna mean?

171 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:54:51pm
The idea that it’s somehow “unwise” to build this project is a concept promoted by opponents, and it’s irrelevant to the Constitutional issue; it would have been neither appropriate nor productive for Obama to wade into that poisoned debate.

Exactly. Obama had the right to take a position on the mosque. But it would be unwise of him to do so. :)

172 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:54:58pm

A look inside the Park 51 swimming pool.

173 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:55:28pm

re: #164 eclectic infidel

Except the voices that object haven't exactly proven to be reasonable.

There are dozens or articles by people like Ed Koch, Charles Krauthammer and others that have made perfectly reasonable arguments.

But here, they are all written off as "wingnuts" and "bigots".

174 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:55:34pm

re: #172 JasonA

A look inside the Park 51 swimming pool.

+1 million.

175 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:55:36pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

176 Dan M.  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:56:51pm

re: #157 lawhawk

The proposed center was never going to open on 9/11/2011 - that was a lie concocted by Andrea Peyser at the NY Post in an op-ed and completely unsourced to anyone involved in the project. It was surmised that the project might have a groundbreaking on 9/11 of this year, but that too was never sourced to anyone involved in the project.

I'm glad to know that that isn't true. I think printing a fabrication like that in a newspaper should be grounds for firing.

177 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:56:53pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

It's not un-American to call for it. It's un-American to actually institute it.

178 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:56:55pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

WTF?

179 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:57:06pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

Greg Sargent said it best:

i've been ok with it since the get go ... i have offered a few questions about certain aspects of the project, but the basic right to build has never been an issue for me. And Charles even agreed with one of my points that if there are any proven improprieties against the builders, they should be vetted. But the right to build this was never a question for me.

180 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:57:28pm

re: #159 _RememberTonyC

Even $100 million isn't big by NYC standards. We just have bigger projects and construction projects are measured in the billions here - price of real estate, construction costs etc., and the financing reflects those risks - along with the insurance and reinsurance to protect against overruns.

The folks behind the project know the risks (and should have been better prepared for the outrageous outrage in this instance) - and the rewards of building in NYC.

181 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:57:36pm

re: #168 _RememberTonyC

Shit man, if Sheby was playing the Rest Stop on I-64 I'd be there with change for the vending machines.

Righteous.

182 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:57:41pm

Instead of going out shopping maybe we should have been sparking a million points of light.

183 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:58:03pm

later peeps

184 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:58:10pm

re: #170 webevintage

My favorite complaint about this:
Why did he make that comment?

Ummm, because a reporter asked him that specific question...

New Palin blather:
@ SarahPalinUSA
9/11 mosque=act of fitna, "equivalent to bldg Serbian Orthodox church@Srebrenica killing fields where Muslims were slaughtered" - Raza&Fatah

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?
and what does fitna mean?

It means "intentional mischief-making". Sawah Pawin has been reading those free books Robert Spencer sent her. Or, more likely, since I don't believe she has the brains to work her way through an entire book, she's quoting the spicy bits he highlighted for her.

185 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:58:34pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

Is that question completely unrelated to Cato's post?

186 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:59:27pm

re: #170 webevintage

My favorite complaint about this:
Why did he make that comment?

Ummm, because a reporter asked him that specific question...

New Palin blather:
@ SarahPalinUSA
9/11 mosque=act of fitna, "equivalent to bldg Serbian Orthodox church@Srebrenica killing fields where Muslims were slaughtered" - Raza&Fatah

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?
and what does fitna mean?

And she seems to forget again that Muslims were victims of the attacks. And yeah I would think that she only learned about Srebrenica today.

187 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 3:59:43pm

re: #173 captdiggs

There are dozens or articles by people like Ed Koch, Charles Krauthammer and others that have made perfectly reasonable arguments.

But here, they are all written off as "wingnuts" and "bigots".

Charles disemboweled the Krauthammer article - what was reasonable about it ?

Some people are still hurting from 9/11 - yes, but that is not excuse to deny every legal right a community centre has to be built.

188 HappyBenghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:00:26pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

And she seems to forget again that Muslims were also victims of the attacks. And yeah I would think that she only learned about Srebrenica today.

Edited to clarify my point.

189 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:00:33pm

re: #184 Cato the Elder

It means "intentional mischief-making". Sawah Pawin has been reading those free books Robert Spencer sent her. Or, more likely, since I don't believe she has the brains to work her way through an entire book, she's quoting the spicy bits he highlighted for her.

Thanks.
I had never seen that...the google gave me a bunch of Geertt Wilders links.

190 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:00:35pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

No man, The Knack had a whole song about it.

191 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:00:54pm

re: #166 goddamnedfrank

without any real design or construction blueprints,

As Lawhawk stated, the date was made up

But if you think any building dept or landmark board would okay demolition prior to seeing what is going to replace it, you're sadly mistaken

192 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:01:56pm

re: #170 webevintage

My favorite complaint about this:
Why did he make that comment?

Ummm, because a reporter asked him that specific question...

New Palin blather:
@ SarahPalinUSA
9/11 mosque=act of fitna, "equivalent to bldg Serbian Orthodox church@Srebrenica killing fields where Muslims were slaughtered" - Raza&Fatah

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?
and what does fitna mean?

I've never seen Palin draw an appropriate comparison. Neuroscientists should take heed, she could be the next Phineas Gage.

193 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:02:06pm

re: #173 captdiggs

There are dozens or articles by people like Ed Koch, Charles Krauthammer and others that have made perfectly reasonable arguments.

But here, they are all written off as "wingnuts" and "bigots".

Krauthammer's latest article fans the fires of fear and prejudice. You've just outed yourself once and for all on here with respect to this issue. Well done!

194 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:02:26pm

re: #153 windsagio

Lol cynic >>

I didn't say it was likely ;)

cynical, moi?

/

195 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:02:34pm

re: #177 JasonA

It's not un-American to call for it. It's un-American to actually institute it.

It's entirely protected speech under the First Amendment. Just as it is to blither on about the tree of liberty needing a big fat barrel of blood.

Or have you noticed those people getting arrested lately?

It is also entirely fine to push back, in either direction.

Anything else I can clear up for you tonight?

196 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:02:52pm

re: #191 sattv4u2

without any real design or construction blueprints,

As Lawhawk stated, the date was made up

But if you think any building dept or landmark board would okay demolition prior to seeing what is going to replace it, you're sadly mistaken

uhhh no, this is NYC.

197 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:03pm

Apparently, the project will have a wonderful retractable dome.

198 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:28pm

re: #197 JasonA

Apparently, the project will have a wonderful retractable dome.

*WHACK!*

No more Bond movies for you.

/

199 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:32pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

Whoops, that was meant in reply to #175.

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:44pm

re: #197 JasonA

Oh noes! An underground lair!

201 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:44pm

re: #189 webevintage

Thanks.
I had never seen that...the google gave me a bunch of Geertt Wilders links.

FITNA: It appears that it means "civil war" in Arabic and is also a film by Geert Wilders.

So she is saying it's civil war now to build the Muslim community center? Whoa. Cato is right, she's got some new friends right now helping her out.

202 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:52pm

re: #199 Cato the Elder

Whoops, that was meant in reply to #175.

missed ,, by THAT much!!@

203 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:03:56pm

re: #173 captdiggs

There are dozens or articles by people like Ed Koch, Charles Krauthammer and others that have made perfectly reasonable arguments.

But here, they are all written off as "wingnuts" and "bigots".

It does not matter how "reasonable" the arguments might seem when they are begin with the assumption that them Muslims must be up to something it makes them irrelevant.
why is anyone asking questions?
Because Muslim are involved.
If it was a Catholic Community Center with a chapel in it for Mass no one would have even noticed.

204 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:04:07pm

Ok off for a walk, laters >

205 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:04:26pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

Yes. Were The Knack really singing about masturbation?

206 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:04:27pm

From Public Policy Polling (and reported on at Hot Air):

Sarah Palin top choice for the 2012 GOP nomination among Republicans who have smoked marijuana

Among Republicans who say they've smoked Marijuana:

Palin 25
Gingrich 22
Huckabee 17
Romney 17
Paul 8

Among Republicans who say they have not smoked Marijuana:

Huckabee 24
Romney 23
Gingrich 21
Palin 21
Paul 3

Two things immediately come to mind about this poll.

First, Sarah (and apparently Newt) solid favorites among Republican stoners.
Second, and more surprising, Public Policy Polling was actually able to find 83 Republicans who admit to smoking weed.

207 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:04:31pm

re: #204 windsagio

Ok off for a walk, laters >

short pier???

/

208 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:04:49pm

re: #198 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*WHACK!*

No more Bond movies for you.

/

*sigh*

Austin Powers it is, then...

209 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:05:25pm

re: #208 JasonA

*sigh*

Austin Powers it is, then...

*WHACKWHACKWHACK!*

/

210 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:05:31pm

re: #203 webevintage

It does not matter how "reasonable" the arguments might seem when they are begin with the assumption that them Muslims must be up to something it makes them irrelevant.
why is anyone asking questions?
Because Muslim are involved.
If it was a Catholic Community Center with a chapel in it for Mass no one would have even noticed.

AKA - Equal Protection under the Constitution

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:05:46pm

re: #163 windsagio

So few reminders...

212 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:05:47pm

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh noes! An underground lair!

Above ground. We're dealing with truly devious people here.

213 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:06:03pm

re: #206 RadicalModerate

From Public Policy Polling (and reported on at Hot Air):

Sarah Palin top choice for the 2012 GOP nomination among Republicans who have smoked marijuana

Two things immediately come to mind about this poll.

First, Sarah (and apparently Newt) solid favorites among Republican stoners.
Second, and more surprising, Public Policy Polling was actually able to find 83 Republicans who admit to smoking weed.

Moot. The candidate is not on that list.

214 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:06:13pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

The class of 2004 hearts Sharia!

215 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:06:21pm
Youtube Video
216 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:06:41pm

re: #212 Nimed

Above ground. We're dealing with truly devious people here.

I hear the Minarets will be well-camouflaged missile launchers...

217 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:07:29pm

re: #177 JasonA

Gotcha. Is it un-American to protest someone (or some org) that calls for it?re: #177 JasonA

It's not un-American to call for it. It's un-American to actually institute it.

Gotcha -- is it un-American to protest someone or some org that calls for it?

218 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:07:37pm

re: #216 JasonA

I hear the Minarets will be well-camouflaged missile launchers...

Diabolical...

219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:08:22pm

re: #214 bratwurst

How do you solve a problem like Shariaaa!?!?!?
How do you hold a (crescent) moonbeam
In your Haaand!

220 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:08:23pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout

Now, that particular opinion may differ based on where you sat during the election.

Many of the flounced were truly fearful of what was going to happen when Obama took office. They truly were, truly believed he was a socialist and was going to wreak havoc and destroy this country.

Well sure, just like they truly believe in the death panels. Because somebody they trust took advantage of that trust and lied to them, told them to believe that. *I'm* truly fearful of what nonsense they'll be told to believe next.

Meanwhile, every time I find myself underwhelmed by Obama's job performance, every time I find any of his moves disappointing, I just take a moment to reflect on what a President McCain would likely be doing -- or worse, if President McCain gave himself a stroke and we were saddled with a President Palin. And I give grateful thanks to my deity that such is not our burden.

221 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:09:15pm

re: #170 webevintage

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?

You could sell tickets just to hear Sarah say "Srebrenica".

222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:09:26pm

Miami and Tampa are playing a pre-season game in a freaking downpour...

223 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:09:47pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

re: #195 Cato the Elder

It's entirely protected speech under the First Amendment. Just as it is to blither on about the tree of liberty needing a big fat barrel of blood.

Or have you noticed those people getting arrested lately?

It is also entirely fine to push back, in either direction.

Anything else I can clear up for you tonight?

If it's entirely fine to push back against those who call for Sharia, why are people so peeved at those who do push back against those calls?

224 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:10:18pm

re: #217 kamala

Gotcha. Is it un-American to protest someone (or some org) that calls for it?re: #177 JasonA

Gotcha -- is it un-American to protest someone or some org that calls for it?

Knock yourself out. What the fuck is it with these questions? You don't want me to be your moral compass, trust me.

225 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:10:37pm

re: #221 wrenchwench

You could sell tickets just to hear Sarah say "Srebrenica".

I'd go nukula

226 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:11:01pm

re: #224 JasonA

Knock yourself out. What the fuck is it with these questions? You don't want me to be your moral compass, trust me.

always north by north west.

227 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:11:39pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Oh i could never do NYC. The beer's not as good, it's too crowded, and I like to drive too much :D

You're wrong about the beer (Brooklyn has quite the thriving little micro-brewery culture).

But it is crowded, you can't drive, and also we have winter.

228 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:12:21pm

re: #223 kamala

re: #195 Cato the Elder

If it's entirely fine to push back against those who call for Sharia, why are people so peeved at those who do push back against those calls?

We're peeved at the Phelps clan for the crap they pull, too, but what's important is that you don't hear us calling for their freedoms to be abridged. Do you not see the difference?

229 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:12:24pm

re: #224 JasonA

Knock yourself out. What the fuck is it with these questions? You don't want me to be your moral compass, trust me.

How about a moral GPS?

230 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:12:30pm

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Miami and Tampa are playing a pre-season game in a freaking downpour...

heh ,, I feel bad for a co-worker of mine

he's there as a runner (has to go between production and satellite trucks as well as the field to supervise the telecast)

231 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:13:15pm

re: #224 JasonA

Knock yourself out. What the fuck is it with these questions? You don't want me to be your moral compass, trust me.

I just don't understand why so many folks are fine w/ Abdul Rauf calling for Sharia but are up in arms about protests against his desire to build a big Islamic center near the site of a big Jihad attack?

232 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:13:23pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How about a moral GPS?

Meh. Wherever the wind takes me, my friend.

233 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:13:51pm

re: #232 JasonA

Meh. Wherever the wind takes me, my friend.

That blows!

234 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #227 sagehen

You're wrong about the beer (Brooklyn has quite the thriving little micro-brewery culture).

But it is crowded, you can't drive, and also we have winter.

235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

It's slowing down now. Ronnie Brown stood up after being tackled in the mud... had about 10 pounds of mud on his shirt.

236 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:14:15pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How about a moral GPS?

Only if your intention is to get permanently lost.

237 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:14:16pm

re: #216 JasonA

I hear the Minarets will be well-camouflaged missile launchers...

Right in the middle of downtown Manhattan -- hidden in plain sight. Brilliant.

I hear the next terrorist mosque is going to be built in Langley, only two blocks away from this building complex

238 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:14:20pm

re: #234 wozzablog

grrrr/

something swallowed my reply.

239 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:14:39pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How about a moral GPS?

"Turn right in 300 ft"

240 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:15:31pm

re: #239 Buck

"Turn right in 300 ft"

*Walks right into a wall*

241 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:15:31pm

re: #228 JasonA

We're peeved at the Phelps clan for the crap they pull, too, but what's important is that you don't hear us calling for their freedoms to be abridged. Do you not see the difference?

Um, who is calling for their freedom to be abridged? People are protesting and using legal methods to discourage the building of the mosque. Is that ok?

242 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:15:52pm

Sarah got away from her handlers and is going off on the twitter:

Mr. President, why are they so set on marking an area w/ mosque steps from what you described, in agreement with many, as "hallowed ground”?
about 1 hour ago via web

Mr. President, did you encourage the mosque dvlprs to accept Gov. Paterson’s offer of land if they move away from hallowed ground @ GZero?
about 1 hour ago via web

We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they? This is not above your pay grade.
about 1 hour ago via web

Mr. President, should they or shouldn't they build a Muslim mosque steps away from where radical Islamists killed 3000 people?Your position?

243 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:15:58pm

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's slowing down now. Ronnie Brown stood up after being tackled in the mud... had about 10 pounds of mud on his shirt.

Yeah ,, I know

Get this logic

Our Los Angeles teleport is taking this game in via fiber and putting it up in Hi Def for the NFL Net

MEANWHILE,,, here in Atlanta I'm taking in the Titans AT SEATTLE and putting it up

go figure!

244 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:16:02pm

re: #231 kamala

I just don't understand why so many folks are fine w/ Abdul Rauf calling for Sharia but are up in arms about protests against his desire to build a big Islamic center near the site of a big Jihad attack?

When did he call for sharia?

245 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:16:24pm

re: #229 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How about a moral GPS?

OH phuc don't get me started... when that freaking digitized voice in my gf's truck starts chanting "you are exceeding the local speed limit " I just want to hurt someone...

246 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:17:18pm

re: #244 b_sharp

When did he call for sharia?

Hannity rattled off his definition of Sharia: “Where women get stoned to death for adultery, where women who are raped need four male eyewitnesses, where women are forced to wear clothing that they may not necessarily want to wear, where women can't drive, where women can't get an education." The implication was that Rauf agrees with such Draconian treatment.

Except, of course, that Rauf doesn’t. Hannity selectively quoted from a Huffington Post column by Rauf, omitting that Rauf criticized such punishments -- and, more importantly, ignoring that Rauf drew a line between Sharia and various penal codes. Rauf wrote that "we cringe" at interpretations of Sharia law that lead to "women being stoned and forced into hiding behind burkas and denied educations" and "beheadings and amputations." He also made a distinction between Sharia and the "penal code," adding that Muslim countries must "revise the penal code so that it is responsive to modern realities."

This attitude also appears in Rauf’s book Islam, A Sacred Law, in which he highlights the case of a caliph who lightened a severe penalty for fornication because it became counterproductive. Rauf pointed out that the caliph’s decision was “sensible,” adding, “I often wonder, if all Muslims nowadays were to exercise ‘sensibility,’ what an easier time we would have!”

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

247 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:17:26pm

re: #191 sattv4u2

without any real design or construction blueprints,

As Lawhawk stated, the date was made up

But if you think any building dept or landmark board would okay demolition prior to seeing what is going to replace it, you're sadly mistaken

Since they don't even have an architect selected yet for the project I any discussion regarding the opening date laughable. It is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about, but remain just so cocksure that you're right, presenting a cautionary example of the Dunning-Krueger effect in motion. You don't seem to know a thing about the case at hand but rate yourself just enough of an expert in the field to pass off ignorance as wisdom.

248 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:17:33pm

re: #239 Buck

"Turn right in 300 ft"

Great,,, not only does my wife nag me about directions from the passenger seat I have ANOTHER female voice nagging me from the console!!

249 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:18:04pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

Sarah got away from her handlers and is going off on the twitter:

Nothing says hallowed like "GZero" on twitter...

250 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:18:07pm

re: #244 b_sharp

When did he call for sharia?

Would that get you to change your mind about whether you'd support the "Islamic center"? (i.e., not his "constitutional right" to build it, but whether you'd actually support it or consider protesting against it?)

251 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:18:44pm

re: #142 Cato the Elder

This is not meant as a personal dig at you, I just wonder: will any of these people be a bit more skeptical about the hysteria next time?

No.

Next question?

252 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:24pm

re: #247 goddamnedfrank

no plans

right

but you know there's a mosque
and a family ctr
and a pool
and ,,,,,
uh huh!

253 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:27pm

re: #249 tnguitarist

Nothing says hallowed like "GZero" on twitter...

LOL so true.

254 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:28pm

re: #251 sagehen

No.

Next question?

They still believe the hysteria, don't they?

255 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:36pm

re: #245 brookly red

"Re-calculating"...

I'd pay extra dollars for a GPS with a sarcasm voice setting.

256 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:40pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

Sarah got away from her handlers and is going off on the twitter:

Pls refudiate!

257 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:41pm

re: #246 JasonA

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

What? We have someone here parroting Hannity? OMFFSM.

258 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:41pm

re: #246 JasonA

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

JasonA -- if Rauf truly wants Sharia law in the US, you'd no longer be a supporter of the "Islamic center"?

259 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:19:58pm

re: #241 kamala

Um, who is calling for their freedom to be abridged? People are protesting and using legal methods to discourage the building of the mosque. Is that ok?

Not when it's based on prejudice.

260 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:20:29pm

re: #250 kamala

Would that get you to change your mind about whether you'd support the "Islamic center"? (i.e., not his "constitutional right" to build it, but whether you'd actually support it or consider protesting against it?)

Show me the quote.

261 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:20:46pm

re: #258 kamala

JasonA -- if Rauf truly wants Sharia law in the US, you'd no longer be a supporter of the "Islamic center"?

Oh for fuck's sake. I'm an atheist. I don't "support" the construction of any religious structure. What I support is their right to build it. Let's get that clear.

262 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:21:17pm

re: #259 wozzablog

Not when it's based on prejudice.

So protesting when "based on prejudice" is un-American? Gotcha -- thanks for that lesson in constitutional law.

263 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:21:17pm

I am sorry. This whole thing just brings up bad memories for me... I remember the bodies on the side walk.

264 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:21:49pm

re: #261 JasonA

Oh for fuck's sake. I'm an atheist. I don't "support" the construction of any religious structure. What I support is their right to build it. Let's get that clear.

Fine, then you support the right of people to protest their building it, too, right? Done.

265 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:21:57pm

re: #156 sattv4u2

As far as magnitude is concerned, this is chump change for projects in NYC

Yeah, but does Tony Soprano have the concrete and waste management contracts !?!?

//

New Jersey is not New York. New York is not New Jersey. It's even odds which is more offended when you accuse (yes, that's the right word) either of them of being the other.

266 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:22:14pm

re: #263 brookly red

I am sorry. This whole thing just brings up bad memories for me... I remember the bodies on the side walk.

I remember being at work watching live open cameras from 5 different news orgs

Thank GOD for editing!

267 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:22:29pm

and on that note ,, BBIAB

work,,, gggrrrrr

268 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:22:34pm

Legitimate Questions for the Presidentby Sarah Palin

Mr. President, should they or should they not build a mosque steps away from where radical Islamists killed 3000 people? Please tell us your position. We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they? And, no, this is not above your pay grade. If those who wish to build this Ground Zero mosque are sincerely interested in encouraging positive "cross-cultural engagement" and dialogue to show a moderate and tolerant face of Islam, then why haven't they recognized that the decision to build a mosque at this particular location is doing just the opposite? Mr. President, why aren't you encouraging the mosque developers to accept Governor Paterson's generous offer of assistance in finding a new location for the mosque on state land if they move it away from Ground Zero? Why haven't they jumped at this offer? Why are they apparently so set on building a mosque steps from what you have described, in agreement with me, as "hallowed ground"? I believe these are legitimate questions to ask.

- Sarah Palin

269 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:22:49pm

re: #260 b_sharp

Show me the quote.

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

270 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:23:50pm

re: #231 kamala

I just don't understand why so many folks are fine w/ Abdul Rauf calling for Sharia but are up in arms about protests against his desire to build a big Islamic center near the site of a big Jihad attack?

I don't suppose you would have any evidence to back up that assertion that Rauf is calling for Sharia, now would you?

271 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:23:58pm

re: #263 brookly red

I am sorry. This whole thing just brings up bad memories for me... I remember the bodies on the side walk.

Brookly, nobody is saying it was acceptable, or ignorable or not incredibly painful, what we are saying is don't blame an entire group for the actions of a select minority.

272 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:23:59pm

re: #244 b_sharp

When did he call for sharia?

re: #269 kamala

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

Maybe you should answer this question first.

273 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:24:02pm

re: #265 sagehen

New Jersey is not New York. New York is not New Jersey. It's even odds which is more offended when you accuse (yes, that's the right word) either of them of being the other.

I'll remember that, Mr Cranky!

(although in the show,, there was a LOT of interaction and cooperation between the New York family and the one headed by Tony!! But you knew that!!

274 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:24:05pm

re: #262 kamala

So protesting when "based on prejudice" is un-American? Gotcha -- thanks for that lesson in constitutional law.

i consider protesting based on prejudice generally bad form pretty much anywhere.

Jack ass.

275 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:24:09pm

re: #266 sattv4u2

I remember being at work watching live open cameras from 5 different news orgs

Thank GOD for editing!

no I don't agree... the editing kinda took the horror away.

276 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:24:27pm

re: #269 kamala

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

No, when you said that the Imam has called for the imposition of Sharia law, and someone calls you out on your blatant lie, you don't get to dodge it by asking another asinine question. Jackass.

277 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:24:54pm

re: #275 brookly red

no I don't agree... the editing kinda took the horror away.

Not for me,, I saw ALL UNedited!

gotta scoot for a few

278 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:08pm

re: #270 RadicalModerate

I don't suppose you would have any evidence to back up that assertion that Rauf is calling for Sharia, now would you?

I do. But I'm trying first to understand if that's the litmus test that gets you to be either for against the mosque?

279 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:20pm

re: #269 kamala

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

Because I don't have enough information.

280 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:31pm

re: #269 kamala

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

You are just like the other dude today who wanted to debate the what if it was planned to open on 9/11.

Ya'll are reaching so hard.

281 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

Legitimate Questions for the Presidentby Sarah Palin

Hey Sarah, I got a legitimate question for you: Why the frak should I give a shit what your position on this is?

282 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:34pm

re: #269 kamala

Why won't you answer the hypothetical question first?

Why should anyone answer any hypothetical question in a game you so clearly have already mapped out in what passes for your addled cerebrum which keeps you on a message board on a saturday when you could be out serving the community by trying to revive any braincells or humanity you have left in your crippled shell.

283 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:45pm

re: #278 kamala

I do. But I'm trying first to understand if that's the litmus test that gets you to be either for against the mosque?

You're ignoring a question you don't have an answer for.

284 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:50pm

re: #275 brookly red

no I don't agree... the editing kinda took the horror away.

It brings back bad memories, but more horror would have been good. You need to seek some other interests in life or something.

285 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:25:59pm

re: #278 kamala

I do. But I'm trying first to understand if that's the litmus test that gets you to be either for or against the mosque?

Eff you and the false choice you rode in on.

286 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:26:16pm

re: #274 wozzablog

i consider protesting based on prejudice generally bad form pretty much anywhere.

Jack ass.

Bad form! Maybe there should be an amendment to the constitution about that...

287 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:26:46pm

re: #286 kamala

Bad form! Maybe there should be an amendment to the constitution about that...

You're ignoring a question you don't have an answer for.

288 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:12pm

re: #264 kamala

Fine, then you support the right of people to protest their building it, too, right? Done.

Show us the statement of any politician, journalist or political commentator that has denied that people have the right to protest the construction of the mosque, oh great victim.

289 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:15pm

re: #278 kamala

I do. But I'm trying first to understand if that's the litmus test that gets you to be either for against the mosque?

And what litmus test are you relying on to decide whether you support the construction or not?

290 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:19pm

re: #286 kamala

Bad form! Maybe there should be an amendment to the constitution about that...

equal protection? - no?

291 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:19pm

re: #258 kamala

oh look another 2004 guy, lol

292 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:23pm

re: #278 kamala

I do. But I'm trying first to understand if that's the litmus test that gets you to be either for against the mosque?

Doesn't work that way, buddy. You make the assertion, you back it up.

293 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:27:36pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

no plans

right

but you know there's a mosque
and a family ctr
and a pool
and ,,,
uh huh!

That isn't an architectural plan, that's a list of design criteria that they will take to the architect, who will then create the actual building design which the construction schematics will then be based on. That architect hasn't been selected yet. As of yet there is no plan, no architect, no builder, there's just a list of what the project developers want.

294 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:28:26pm

re: #278 kamala

Your failing gloriously.

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:28:32pm

re: #241 kamala

Um, who is calling for their freedom to be abridged? People are protesting and using legal methods to discourage the building of the mosque. Is that ok?

and people used "legal methods" to harrass, shame, and prosecute black people for marrying white people as late as the 1960s. Your point?

296 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:29:09pm

re: #176 Dan M.

I'm glad to know that that isn't true. I think printing a fabrication like that in a newspaper should be grounds for firing.

Oh, sure, Murdoch fires people for lying all. the. time.

///////eleventy more///

297 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:29:50pm

re: #292 RadicalModerate

Doesn't work that way, buddy. You make the assertion, you back it up.

Class of 2004 (apologies to that handful of great posters here that share their join-date with these idiots). Don't expect a rational argument - just random outbursts of "SHARIA LAW!!!!!11ty!!

298 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:29:53pm

re: #296 sagehen

Oh, sure, Murdoch fires people for lying all. the. time.

///eleventy more///

You will find all the clarifications on page 6.

299 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:30:10pm

re: #286 kamala

Bad form! Maybe there should be an amendment to the constitution about that...

I asked you for a quote from Rauf where he called for sharia. Where is it?

300 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:30:20pm

haha did the human talking point leave?

301 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:30:23pm

re: #293 goddamnedfrank

But but didn't they have to sit around and 'plan' those choices?

302 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:31:04pm

I remember walking through the smoke over the Brooklyn Bridge and lining up behind hundreds of others to donate blood, only to be turned away because there was no one to give it to, they were all dead.

303 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:31:34pm

re: #286 kamala

Bad form! Maybe there should be an amendment to the constitution about that...

lol. That's actually the position of some people against the mosque. I'm offended, let's amend the Constitution!

304 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:32:33pm

re: #300 WindUpBird

haha did the human talking point leave?

He still shows up on the users list. I'm guessing that he's frantically looking for a citation to back the claim that he pulled out of his ass.

305 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:33:15pm

re: #302 brookly red

I remember walking through the smoke over the Brooklyn Bridge and lining up behind hundreds of others to donate blood, only to be turned away because there was no one to give it to, they were all dead.

and this has what to do with American muslims who did not murder people or have anything to do with terrorists or Al Qaeda or flying planes into buildings wanting a cultural center?

You know there's over a billion muslims, right?

306 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:33:38pm

I normally like listening to the chirping of crickets, but not when I'm expecting a reply.

307 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:33:42pm

re: #304 RadicalModerate

He still shows up on the users list. I'm guessing that he's frantically looking for a citation to back the claim that he pulled out of his ass.

wahahaha well, come on back dogg, we'll have ourselves some internet

308 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:34:36pm

re: #305 WindUpBird

and this has what to do with American muslims who did not murder people or have anything to do with terrorists or Al Qaeda or flying planes into buildings wanting a cultural center?

You know there's over a billion muslims, right?

I'm just waiting for Mandy's obligatory video post.

309 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:35:02pm

I remember tens of thousands of people posting pictures of missing loved ones on the walls of subway stations & church fences desperately hoping...

310 Lidane  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:35:34pm

re: #302 brookly red

I remember walking through the smoke over the Brooklyn Bridge and lining up behind hundreds of others to donate blood, only to be turned away because there was no one to give it to, they were all dead.

And I'd bet money that some of those people who walked over to donate blood were Muslims. What's your point?

311 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:35:36pm

re: #283 tnguitarist

You're ignoring a question you don't have an answer for.

Read this segment of an interview (in Arabic) with Rauf. Carefully.

Question: Many of the political Jihadist Islamic movements are talking about an Islamic Caliphate based on the prophet’s approach. Can we accomplish this today?

Abdul Rauf: The challenge I was referring to is this; how do we call for the principles and standards that the prophet (peace be upon him) used to build the Islamic state in Medina. The challenge we have today is how do we accomplish this while keeping the prophet’s methodology in our current changing times. This challenge was an issue that the scholars and Caliphs had to face throughout the Islamic history, which resulted in the creation of several Islamic schools of thought with multiple views that are viewed equally.

So the question in our era throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians that an Islamic state can be established in more than just in a single form or mold; it can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of [Islamic] Shariah that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed.

Question: So we understand that separation of religion from state, that is, it depends on the Muslim governors that so long they were spreading Islam and justice… but when the rulers are ruling under traditional laws contrary to Islamic laws, what then should the Islamic institutions do?

Abdul Rauf: A time after the prophet (peace be upon him) arose certain new conditions that required the governors to institute new laws so long they do not conflict with the Quran and the Sunna that were Shariah compliant as such followed in traditional customs. So in our modern era, governments that want to ensure the new laws as to not contradict Shariah rules—so they create institutions to ensure Islamic law and remove any that contradict with Shariah.

So we advise that when there is a problem in the relationship between state and religious institutions in the form of the question you just asked, that people need to use peaceful means to advise the governors and government institutions and use peaceful means that are available to send their message out to the masses.

And we also suggest to the governors and political institutions to consult [Muslim] religious institutions and [Muslim] personalities in the field as to assure their decision making to reflect the spirit of Shariah.

312 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:35:49pm

re: #309 brookly red

I remember tens of thousands of people posting pictures of missing loved ones on the walls of subway stations & church fences desperately hoping...

And I repeat:

and this has what to do with American muslims who did not murder people or have anything to do with terrorists or Al Qaeda or flying planes into buildings wanting a cultural center?

You know there's over a billion muslims, right?

313 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:35:58pm

re: #309 brookly red

I remember tens of thousands of people posting pictures of missing loved ones on the walls of subway stations & church fences desperately hoping...

And this means what in terms of the current discussion?

314 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:36:08pm

re: #308 wozzablog

I'm just waiting for Mandy's obligatory video post.

Brook covered the blind emotional manipulation for Mandy, that count? >>

315 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:36:43pm

re: #311 kamala

Douchebag has returned!

Hiya douchebag! Tell your beardo paranoid friends at Free Republican LGF says hi!

316 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:36:59pm

re: #309 brookly red

I remember tens of thousands of people posting pictures of missing loved ones on the walls of subway stations & church fences desperately hoping...

This is a ploy. Someone did it earler today to rile up the emotions. You desperately want someone to take the bait and down ding you or something.

Has nothing to do with the moderate Muslims you always cry out for who are getting the grief right now.

317 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:37:30pm

It's almost like people think our heart strings can be played like violins in a tune that'll bend us hither and thither.

318 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:37:34pm

re: #316 Stanley Sea

I took the bait, but with eyes open :p

Manipulation is manipulation, and should be called as such.

319 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:37:39pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

And this means what in terms of the current discussion?

it means THEM MUSLIMS DUN KILLED OUR GUYS SO WE GOTTA I dunno punish American citizens for it because they're not Jesusey enough.

Brookly red doesn't make a whole fuck load of sense.

320 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:37:50pm

I remember waiting days for the phone service to be restored so that we could connect (hopefully) with loved ones...

321 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:38:01pm

re: #303 Nimed

lol. That's actually the position of some people against the mosque. I'm offended, let's amend the Constitution!

Jon Stewart had a routine about this a couple nights ago, where he and John Hodgman revised the Constitution (renaming it the Prostitution) and gave it 6000 new amendments

322 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #311 kamala

In Arabic?
Link?...C'mon! You think we are stupid?

323 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:38:40pm

re: #320 brookly red

You know, some New Yorkers on this blog believe that you don't live in the city proper at all.

324 Lidane  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:38:44pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

And this means what in terms of the current discussion?

Didn't you know? Memories of 9/11 > the Constitution, legal rights, and religious freedom. At least that's what all the critics of Park51 seem to be implying.

325 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:38:57pm

re: #289 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And what litmus test are you relying on to decide whether you support the construction or not?

For me, it's easy -- I support interpretations of Islam that reject the notion of bringing Sharia to the US, that reject Islam's call to subjugate non-Muslims worldwide, that reject calls to beat disobedient women, that reject the death penalty for apostates, that reject polygamy, that reject child marriage.

Crazy, I know -- call me a wingnut.

326 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:13pm

re: #320 brookly red

I remember waiting days for the phone service to be restored so that we could connect (hopefully) with loved ones...

Which is precisely why there shouldn't be a swimming pool and multicultural some 2 blocks away.................... i always knew there was a reason.

327 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:15pm

re: #302 brookly red

I remember walking through the smoke over the Brooklyn Bridge and lining up behind hundreds of others to donate blood, only to be turned away because there was no one to give it to, they were all dead.

Brookly, I feel for you, what you experienced was horrible. What the relatives of those who died was horrible. The fact it was a massive attack on US soil is frightening.

But the attack was not from all Muslims and there are some Muslims in NYC who want to help improve the area.

328 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:15pm

re: #316 Stanley Sea

This is a ploy. Someone did it earler today to rile up the emotions. You desperately want someone to take the bait and down ding you or something.

Has nothing to do with the moderate Muslims you always cry out for who are getting the grief right now.

Stanley with all due respect, I was there up close & personal so you opinion means nothing to me.

329 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:21pm

re: #147 captdiggs

You're also a bigot. Which is quite ironic considering the nature of the mosque argument.

lol

330 bubba zanetti  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:26pm

re: #309 brookly red

I remember tens of thousands of people posting pictures of missing loved ones on the walls of subway stations & church fences desperately hoping...


And how many of those 10,000 gave you permission to blatantly exploit the event in their name?

331 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:36pm

re: #318 windsagio

I took the bait, but with eyes open :p

Manipulation is manipulation, and should be called as such.

Eyes open when he and others cry with pearls clutched - you are unAmerican, you downdinged the grief over 9/11, waaahhh

So weirdly transparent. It's like all they have.

332 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:39:43pm

I remember redwood trees, bumper cars and wolverines

Youtube Video
333 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:40:00pm

re: #306 b_sharp

I normally like listening to the chirping of crickets, but not when I'm expecting a reply.

311

334 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:40:13pm

re: #331 Stanley Sea

I want them to do that, then I have an open ground to excoriate them as lying fuckdouches.

335 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:40:24pm

re: #320 brookly red

I remember waiting days for the phone service to be restored so that we could connect (hopefully) with loved ones...

I remember on 7/7 my sister taking a tube train to work and that i didn't hear from her for hours after the attacks due to the mobile networks being swamped.

336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:40:26pm

re: #320 brookly red

I remember waiting days for the phone service to be restored so that we could connect (hopefully) with loved ones...

I remember my eyes watering with tears as I watched men saluting Fox News anchors for the wonderful job they did creating graphics of Chrome American Eagles streaking towards Mecca to pee on it with red white and blue urine

Praise America!

337 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:40:52pm

re: #320 brookly red

I remember waiting days for the phone service to be restored so that we could connect (hopefully) with loved ones...

I remember that for days we thought there could be 20,000 dead, but it turned out to be a lot fewer than that.

Should we act like it really was 20,000? How would that be different?

338 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:41:04pm

re: #325 kamala

For me, it's easy -- I support interpretations of Islam that reject the notion of bringing Sharia to the US, that reject Islam's call to subjugate non-Muslims worldwide, that reject calls to beat disobedient women, that reject the death penalty for apostates, that reject polygamy, that reject child marriage.

Crazy, I know -- call me a wingnut.

And the fact that you reject all that, yet still view with Rauf with suspicion and/or distrust even after he's spoken against such things, makes calling you a wingnut all the easier.

339 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:41:13pm

re: #336 WindUpBird

Youtube Video


!!!1!1!!1!!11!!one!!!eleven!

340 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:41:50pm

re: #328 brookly red

Stanley with all due respect, I was there up close & personal so you opinion means nothing to me.

And because you were in Brooklyn, your opinion matters more! Yep, that makes sense.

341 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:17pm

re: #304 RadicalModerate

He still shows up on the users list. I'm guessing that he's frantically looking for a citation to back the claim that he pulled out of his ass.

Based on his (uncited) wall of text on #311, can I claim that I called this?

342 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:21pm

Ahem: O is a politician with a capital P.

I would like to have heard him say that there is a different type of Islam in the USA because some things are illegal here which seem to be a go in other varieties in other countries, & then to hear him say to those other places that some changes might be a good thing.

343 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:30pm

re: #302 brookly red

I remember walking through the smoke over the Brooklyn Bridge and lining up behind hundreds of others to donate blood, only to be turned away because there was no one to give it to, they were all dead.

I remember waiting in line to buy my airbrushed t-shirts at a kiosk in vegas that says Islam is Of The Devil to put on my white aryan children tso none of those brown fuckers get the idea that this is a free country or nothin

Praise America, GTFO BROWN GUYS GO BACK TO ALLAHVANIA OR WHERVER YEW CUM FROOOM

344 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:34pm

re: #315 WindUpBird

Douchebag has returned!

Hiya douchebag! Tell your beardo paranoid friends at Free Republican LGF says hi!

Beardo?

345 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:36pm

re: #270 RadicalModerate

I don't suppose you would have any evidence to back up that assertion that Rauf is calling for Sharia, now would you?

Sharia -- BBC article

The first of several references under Further Reading:
Islam: A Sacred Law: What Every Muslim Should Know About the Shariah, Feisal Abdul Rauf, Kazi Pubns. ISBN: 0939660709

I've not read his book, but I understand that he promoted it (his book, and presumably Sharia) as a guest speaker at the 2009 Hisb-ul-tahrir conference.

346 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:40pm

re: #336 WindUpBird

I remember my eyes watering with tears as I watched men saluting Fox News anchors for the wonderful job they did creating graphics of Chrome American Eagles streaking towards Mecca to pee on it with red white and blue urine

Praise America!

Cynic.

347 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:42:58pm

re: #343 WindUpBird

Don't you love you some Prussian Blue?

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:43:16pm

re: #328 brookly red

Stanley with all due respect, I was there up close & personal so you opinion means nothing to me.

How's your imaginary mixed-race girlfriend doing?

349 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:43:46pm

They're spewing all over the dead threads again.

350 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:43:53pm

re: #347 windsagio

Don't you love you some Prussian Blue?

Oh they just rock my world

I'm gonna go see them at the Roseland, I think the Arcade Fire is touring with them

351 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:44:10pm

I remember a lot of people putting flag stickers on their car and then taking them off three to six months later.

352 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:44:23pm

re: #340 Stanley Sea

And because you were in Brooklyn, your opinion matters more! Yep, that makes sense.

no I was in lower Manhattan where I worked... 5 blocks away. sorry it does.

353 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:44:48pm

re: #352 brookly red

lol, full... of... crap.

354 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:14pm

see - if i leave re: #351 goddamnedfrank

Patriotism - it costs a buck'o'5

355 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:15pm

re: #349 Charles

They're spewing all over the dead threads again.

They ain't got the balls to take on opponents that hit back.

356 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:16pm

re: #142 Cato the Elder

This is not meant as a personal dig at you, I just wonder: will any of these people be a bit more skeptical about the hysteria next time?

Them?
No.

357 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:23pm

re: #353 windsagio

lol, full... of... crap.

deal little man, deal.

358 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:26pm

Can we can it with the pissing match here?

359 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:27pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

How's your imaginary mixed-race girlfriend doing?

She got tattooed, put on a burkha and joined a gang of pork bandits.

360 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:45:33pm

re: #322 blueraven

In Arabic?
Link?...C'mon! You think we are stupid?

Oh ok, you think I made that up? Try Google translate on this link:

[Link: www.hadielislam.com...]

361 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:15pm

SS: I'm sad you downdinged my lee greenwood,

DON"T YOU LOVE AMERICA?!!?!

362 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:27pm

re: #159 _RememberTonyC

of course ... i was basically saying Obama said it well, and by not commenting on the "wisdom" of anything, he was allowing himself wiggle room with those who might want to twist his thoughts. as for the financial wisdom of a $100,000,000 project, isn't any project of that pricetag potentially unwise due to cost overruns, etc?

You can't build a lego castle in Manhattan for less than 100m.

363 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:37pm

Love the Kamala quote: That quote shows him to be less extreme than the likes of Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, et al, who want to change American law to better fit with Biblical law.

Oh my god! The Imam said that people who want to change the law in Islamic states should "use peaceful means to advise the governors and government institutions and use peaceful means that are available to send their message out to the masses." Holy crap!!! Terrorist!!!!!!

364 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:40pm

re: #353 windsagio

The historians will know.

365 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:40pm

yes and of course the personal attacks... sorry I just happened to live in the wrong place at the wrong time.

366 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:46:44pm

re: #338 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And the fact that you reject all that, yet still view with Rauf with suspicion and/or distrust even after he's spoken against such things, makes calling you a wingnut all the easier.

Rauf has never rejected ANY of those things. Provide ANY evidence that he has. He's had many interviews about Sharia and never once called for rejection of any elements of Sharia. Please. Read his words carefully.

367 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:47:10pm

re: #351 goddamnedfrank

I remember a lot of people putting flag stickers on their car and then taking them off three to six months later.

so do I.
I still fly a flag outside my house.
*everybody poke fun at the conservative now*
/ / / / /

368 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:47:25pm

re: #361 windsagio

SS: I'm sad you downdinged my lee greenwood,

DON"T YOU LOVE AMERICA?!!?!

NO! Not that type of love!

369 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:47:31pm

re: #311 kamala

Found the site where this "interview" came from.

As expected, its an unhinged anti-Muslim site.

Google cache is your friend.
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

370 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:47:37pm

re: #365 brookly red

yes and of course the personal attacks... sorry I just happened to live in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You always are man, you always are.

Just like your girlfriend changes race to prove you're not racist against different groups.

371 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:01pm

re: #365 brookly red

yes and of course the personal attacks... sorry I just happened to live in the wrong place at the wrong time.

ahahha you are so weak, dude, it's really quite something

372 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:11pm

re: #342 Ojoe

Ahem: O is a politician with a capital P.

I would like to have heard him say that there is a different type of Islam in the USA because some things are illegal here which seem to be a go in other varieties in other countries, & then to hear him say to those other places that some changes might be a good thing.

And many people would like to hear him say similarly in-your-face things about the Catholic Church.

Heck, depending on how he said it, I might send a copy of that speech to my local Archdiocese.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Or did you ever hear GWB do something similar?

373 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:20pm

re: #370 windsagio

You always are man, you always are.

Just like your girlfriend changes race to prove you're not racist against different groups.

But he's still a democrat!

374 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:37pm

re: #373 WindUpBird

But he's still a democrat!

The party left him behind in 1964~!

375 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:42pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

What a beautiful flag it is, the USA flag. Especially the stripes in the wind, they are the best kinesthetic sculpture. Wow.

376 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:42pm

re: #368 Stanley Sea

NO! Not that type of love!

Lee Greenwood is the bad kind of touching :D

377 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:45pm

re: #363 JamesWI

Love the Kamala quote: That quote shows him to be less extreme than the likes of Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, et al, who want to change American law to better fit with Biblical law.

Oh my god! The Imam said that people who want to change the law in Islamic states should "use peaceful means to advise the governors and government institutions and use peaceful means that are available to send their message out to the masses." Holy crap!!! Terrorist!!!

JamesWI -- when did I ever say he's a terrorist? Terrorism is a red-herring. The War on Terror was one of the most unfortunate euphemisms ever created -- and yes, I know, it was GW Bush who did it. The Muslim Brotherhood has explicitly called for bringing Islamic Law to the US and other parts of the world through peaceful means. Does that make it any more palatable?

378 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:48:56pm

re: #371 WindUpBird

ahahha you are so weak, dude, it's really quite something

bird we are done.

379 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:49:03pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

Lee Greenwood is the bad kind of touching :D

I just spit up some diet pepsi, you ass :P

380 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:49:13pm

re: #370 windsagio

You always are man, you always are.

Just like your girlfriend changes race to prove you're not racist against different groups.

Huh?

381 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:49:26pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

And many people would like to hear him say similarly in-your-face things about the Catholic Church.

Heck, depending on how he said it, I might send a copy of that speech to my local Archdiocese.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Or did you ever hear GWB do something similar?

I recall quite a bit of questioning and concern about his Catholicism before John Kennedy was elected.

382 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:49:46pm

b_sharp, can we get back to that question you didn't want to answer?

383 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:49:52pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

To my knowledge none of the recent presidents have said any such things, sadly.

384 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:50:11pm

re: #381 reine.de.tout

I recall quite a bit of questioning and concern about his Catholicism before John Kennedy was elected.

He'll sell us out to the Pope!

Exactly!

385 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:50:19pm

re: #358 Ojoe

Can we can it with the pissing match here?

When the transparently manipulative weaksauce heartstring-pulling 9/11 shenanigans stop, I'll stop.

386 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:50:26pm

re: #325 kamala

For me, it's easy -- I support interpretations of Islam that reject the notion of bringing Sharia to the US, that reject Islam's call to subjugate non-Muslims worldwide, that reject calls to beat disobedient women, that reject the death penalty for apostates, that reject polygamy, that reject child marriage.

Crazy, I know -- call me a wingnut.

Sigh.

What Sharia Law is All About by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

Here's how it starts:

We hear a lot about "firebrand" Muslim clerics calling for the installation of Shariah law. It conjures images of women being stoned and forced into hiding behind burkas and denied educations. We think of beheadings and amputations as a form of justice. And we cringe.

387 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:50:54pm

re: #377 kamala

JamesWI -- when did I ever say he's a terrorist? Terrorism is a red-herring. The War on Terror was one of the most unfortunate euphemisms ever created -- and yes, I know, it was GW Bush who did it. The Muslim Brotherhood has explicitly called for bringing Islamic Law to the US and other parts of the world through peaceful means. Does that make it any more palatable?

The point is you are trying to paint him as some kind of radical, when your "evidence" shows he is far more moderate than just about all current popular right-wingers. You fail

388 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:51:05pm

re: #385 WindUpBird

When the transparently manipulative weaksauce heartstring-pulling 9/11 shenanigans stop, I'll stop.

And they came out of freaking nowhere too. Even as manipulation it was poorly done.

389 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:51:29pm

Man, I tell you. I'm just starting to laugh now. It's like a demented game of whack-a-mole.

390 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:51:45pm

re: #311 kamala

So an interview in Arabic, about how to govern Islamic states -- if your translation is accurate -- says such states "can be established in more than just in a single form or mold; it can be established through a kingdom or a democracy."

Sounds to me like he's talking about Islamic countries. Like how the largest Islamic country, Indonesia, is a democracy. And not a repressive, social conservative everywhere you go, kind of country. (ever been to Bali?)

How does this have anything at all to do with governments in non-Islamic states?

391 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:51:49pm

Hey Reine - that site you posted (it was you right?) 30 mosques in 30 days was a really cool read.

392 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:51:59pm

re: #366 kamala

Rauf has never rejected ANY of those things. Provide ANY evidence that he has. He's had many interviews about Sharia and never once called for rejection of any elements of Sharia. Please. Read his words carefully.

Check out Post 386, and then kindly blow your "outrage" out your ass.

Putz.

393 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:52:15pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

so do I.
I still fly a flag outside my house.
*everybody poke fun at the conservative now*
/ / / /

Reine, there's a video I would like you to see when you have the time.

394 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:52:22pm

re: #391 Stanley Sea

Hey Reine - that site you posted (it was you right?) 30 mosques in 30 days was a really cool read.

Hm. I don't think it was my link.

But glad you liked it anyhow (whatever it was).

395 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:52:29pm

re: #369 RadicalModerate

Found the site where this "interview" came from.

As expected, its an unhinged anti-Muslim site.

Google cache is your friend.
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Posted by an ex-lizard.

Pastorius

This user is blocked.

Karma: 630
Registered since: Apr 16, 2005 at 5:23 pm

No. of comments posted: 1,984
No. of links posted: 794
Recent comments

Oh look! Not class of 2004!

396 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:52:32pm

re: #393 Nimed

Reine, there's a video I would like you to see when you have the time.

OK.
Linky?

397 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:52:46pm
Youtube Video
398 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:53:05pm

re: #378 brookly red

bird we are done.

For us to be done, there would have had to be a point where we weren't done :D

We know what you're doing here, We understand how you're trying to link honest Americans to terrorists because they share a religion.

We get it, dude. But this is the new shit. This is 2010 where the heartstring pulling doesn't work anymore. We can see the bullshit for what it is.

399 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:53:34pm

re: #389 Charles

Man, I tell you. I'm just starting to laugh now. It's like a demented game of whack-a-mole.

There's something about seeing Muslims as anything other than enemies of all that America stands for that drives the wingnuts mad. The fact that Obama's not rising to the bait and coming down one way or another about Cordoba House seems to really have them in a lather.

400 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:53:36pm

re: #367 reine.de.tout

so do I.
I still fly a flag outside my house.
*everybody poke fun at the conservative now*
/ / / /

I still fly my flag too. I think anyone who would poke fun about that is a jerk.

401 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:54:04pm

re: #400 blueraven

I still fly my flag too. I think anyone who would poke fun about that is a jerk.

*big smooch* to you!

402 bubba zanetti  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:54:30pm

re: #391 Stanley Sea

(Raises hand, and tips hat to BoingBoing)

403 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:54:34pm

re: #394 reine.de.tout

Hm. I don't think it was my link.

But glad you liked it anyhow (whatever it was).

Ah, sorry for the miss-attribution - it was in the comments of your page:

[Link: 30mosques.com...]

404 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:54:58pm

re: #387 JamesWI

The point is you are trying to paint him as some kind of radical, when your "evidence" shows he is far more moderate than just about all current popular right-wingers. You fail

Um, my evidence shows that he supports Sharia and wants to see it established.

Who gives a crap about what the popular right-wingers want? I reject what they want too!

405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:55:00pm

re: #381 reine.de.tout

I recall quite a bit of questioning and concern about his Catholicism before John Kennedy was elected.

No way you're old enough to remember all that.

406 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:55:27pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No way you're old enough to remember all that.

ROFL.
Oh, my.
Yes, indeed, you wonderful sweet person, you.

407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:55:30pm

re: #393 Nimed

Reine, there's a video I would like you to see when you have the time.

Brown Chicken/Brown Cow

408 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:55:32pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No way you're old enough to remember all that.

Lol suckup. But charming :D

409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:55:53pm

re: #406 reine.de.tout

Can I have a dollar?

410 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:04pm

re: #408 windsagio

Lol suckup. But charming :D

Charming, yes.
AND, hell, it works!

411 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:11pm

re: #389 Charles

Man, I tell you. I'm just starting to laugh now. It's like a demented game of whack-a-mole.

20 years ago, people only had their local newspaper, the television, and the people they see at the bar and at work to talk about politics with. Factions were largely regional. National parties served as rallying points, and as organizational institutions, but crazy theories were whispered by drunk people, not broadcasted.

The internet has changed all that. Name the craziest person you know in person, and you can bet he has found a community of like minded individuals online.

There are some serious cultural changes that are taking place, at breakneck speed, as a result of this. It will take awhile before we find a new way to marginalize lunatics in this media environment. That will have to happen through cultural change. It has just begun.

412 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:17pm

re: #311 kamala

Gee, now, what does that remind me of?

Let's see...

A Dominionist preacher talking about overthrowing the constitution in favor of laws going back to a bunch of Semitic nomads as codified in the book of Leviticus?

One of these things is very much like the other.

Neither one (shariah or theocratic Christianity) is going to happen here anytime soon, but if I have to choose one to be hyper-worried about one or the other, I pick the latter. There are just so damn many more of those guys.

413 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:23pm

re: #409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can I have a dollar?

Sure!
Where you want it?

414 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:29pm

re: #409 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can I have a dollar?

Bwahahahhahahahahahah!

I think you've singlehandedly changed the tone of the thread >>

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:56:59pm

re: #413 reine.de.tout

Sure!
Where you want it?

Let me go get my g-string on...

416 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:57:04pm

I am now convinced that some people just do not want there to be any moderate Muslims.

417 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:57:41pm

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was in grammar school (Catholic) when JFK was running for prez, we were more or less excited or coached to be by the nuns, and when he was shot it was extra tragic at "Saint Therese School."

418 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:57:59pm

re: #411 Fozzie Bear

People self-marginalize now for most things, saves the rest of us the trouble >>

419 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:15pm

re: #416 JasonA

I am now convinced that some people just do not want there to be any moderate Muslims.

Sad, but true.

420 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:17pm

re: #402 bubba zanetti

(Raises hand, and tips hat to BoingBoing)

Thank you! Their post on visiting Park 51 was a great read.

I’m standing in prayer expecting to feel something considering I’m inside the Ground Zero mosque. I don’t know what I’m supposed to feel, but for some reason I’m confused why I’m not feeling some mythical sensation.

Then I realized, it’s just a mosque, just like any other place of worship in the country. So the only thing I was feeling was an earache from all the screeching on the microphone from the sound system — just like every mosque in America.

421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:35pm

re: #417 Ojoe

I was born... but at 15 months old... don't remember much.

422 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:41pm

re: #419 Fozzie Bear

Easier to hate that way.

423 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:44pm

re: #401 reine.de.tout

*big smooch* to you!

right back at ya sweetie!

424 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:58:50pm

re: #403 Stanley Sea

Ah, sorry for the miss-attribution - it was in the comments of your page:

[Link: 30mosques.com...]

My favorite line from that:

An announcement is made that the toilets are broken and people should go across the street. You can't have a community prayer without the standard hilarious housekeeping announcements
425 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 4:59:47pm

BBL

Carry on lizards

426 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:00:18pm

re: #417 Ojoe

I was in grammar school (Catholic) when JFK was running for prez, we were more or less excited or coached to be by the nuns, and when he was shot it was extra tragic at "Saint Therese School."

Same experience.

I remember there was a song, Hail to George Washington, the Father of our Country, or some such.

The nuns changed it so we sang, "Hail to John Kennedy, the Father of our Country".

My dad flipped his lid when he found out about it.

427 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:00:27pm

re: #396 reine.de.tout

OK.
Linky?

Here:
[Link: www.ted.com...]

Important: please try to survive the first 5 minutes, where there's a lot of quips and what appears to be low blows against conservatism that will probably drive you crazy. Jokes, insults, condescension, unflattering comparisons, the works. That will be subverted further ahead, ok?

I really think it's an interesting perspective, and pretty well researched. I would like to know your thoughts on it.

428 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:00:38pm

re: #413 reine.de.tout

Sure!
Where you want it?

That's what the waist band is for.

429 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:00:44pm

re: #416 JasonA

I am now convinced that some people just do not want there to be any moderate Muslims.

I'll be honest, I once thought a "moderate Muslim" was a myth.

Then I spent the better part of the last six years working for one and found out that he's one of the best bosses I've had.

430 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:01:23pm

re: #404 kamala

Um, my evidence shows that he supports Sharia and wants to see it established.

Who gives a crap about what the popular right-wingers want? I reject what they want too!

And I'm sure that if you asked any priest, pastor, minister, etc. if they wished our laws followed those of the Bible more closely, they would say yes. The difference is, in America, we are actually close to electing people who would try to make this happen, while no one is seriously imagining a United States governed by sharia law. Again, what is your supposed controversy here?

431 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:01:35pm

re: #416 JasonA

I am now convinced that some people just do not want there to be any moderate Muslims.


The meme about "why won't moderate muslims stand up?" it's become just transparent obvious garbage

432 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:01:36pm

re: #52 WindUpBird

you don't think what was done by lobbying groups and GOP luminaries to try and defeat HCR was a hostile political climate?

What? Even his friends must have had misgivings about this particular legislation. That bill is a mess, and it's a mess whether you want green energy, higher taxes, or even health care reform, or not.

What sort of a reform is it that doesn't touch tort reform? What sort of a bill is it that includes provisions that everyone knows will be rescinded before they go into effect, just so that the bill, as written, will clear some budgetary hurdle?

The overall political climate when Obama came into office was a mix of exultation [the winners] and guarded willingness to wait and see and hope for the best [the losers].

Or, in some cases, guarded willingness etc. on the part of the winners, the ones who had wanted Hillary. And yes, from an originally small corner, bitter and determined opposition to everything he proposed.

We've waited and we've seen and the optimism is faded. Screw ups on health care, continued economic weakness, and a sense of nobody at the tiller when it came to the BP spill have had consequences.

433 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:01:37pm

NIMED -
Do you have a link to the video you wanted me to watch?

434 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:02:15pm

re: #433 reine.de.tout

NIMED -
Do you have a link to the video you wanted me to watch?

nevermind, just saw it.

435 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:02:19pm

re: #412 Cato the Elder

Gee, now, what does that remind me of?

Let's see...

A Dominionist preacher talking about overthrowing the constitution in favor of laws going back to a bunch of Semitic nomads as codified in the book of Leviticus?

One of these things is very much like the other.

Neither one (shariah or theocratic Christianity) is going to happen here anytime soon, but if I have to choose one to be hyper-worried about one or the other, I pick the latter. There are just so damn many more of those guys.

As a Texas resident who just watched a bunch of Dominionists rewrite the guidelines for education in our public schools (Thomas Jefferson:Out - John Calvin: In), I can attest to you that the latter is already happening.

436 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:02:22pm

re: #429 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'll be honest, I once thought a "moderate Muslim" was a myth.

Then I spent the better part of the last six years working for one and found out that he's one of the best bosses I've had.

there are plenty of moderate Muslims...

437 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:03:11pm

re: #412 Cato the Elder

Gee, now, what does that remind me of?

Let's see...

A Dominionist preacher talking about overthrowing the constitution in favor of laws going back to a bunch of Semitic nomads as codified in the book of Leviticus?

One of these things is very much like the other.

Neither one (shariah or theocratic Christianity) is going to happen here anytime soon, but if I have to choose one to be hyper-worried about one or the other, I pick the latter. There are just so damn many more of those guys.


Dominionist preachers bother you but Rauf doesn't? And you're measuring that by how likely you think it is for their message to stick?

I know it's hard to fathom, but you know it's possible to reject both Sharia and any kind of theocratic Christianity simultaneously.

438 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:03:29pm

re: #427 Nimed

Here:
[Link: www.ted.com...]

Important: please try to survive the first 5 minutes, where there's a lot of quips and what appears to be low blows against conservatism that will probably drive you crazy. Jokes, insults, condescension, unflattering comparisons, the works. That will be subverted further ahead, ok?

I really think it's an interesting perspective, and pretty well researched. I would like to know your thoughts on it.

OK, I've seen this before, but I'll re-watch to refresh my remembery.

439 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:04:19pm

re: #429 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'll be honest, I once thought a "moderate Muslim" was a myth.

Then I spent the better part of the last six years working for one and found out that he's one of the best bosses I've had.

First Muslim I knew was in 1996, he was a psychologist from Algeria IIRC who worked for the same health care company I worked for, who was going back to school so he could get certification to practice as a psychologist in Washington State. Smart guy, probably the single smartest guy I ever met at my health care job. I was just this ratty looking college student in a Slayer t-shirt, but he gave me more respect than a lot of my coworkers did.

440 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:04:55pm

re: #436 brookly red

there are plenty of moderate Muslims...

There are. Not only do I have one for a boss, but I've had three coworkers who were the same. Sadly, I've lost touch with those coworkers, but they were some of the nicest folks I've met.

Except for the declarations that I was an infidel and would roast forever in a lake of fire, but I promised I wouldn't be late for work again and they let it slide.

///

441 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:05:04pm

re: #436 brookly red

there are plenty of moderate Muslims...

Of course there are. There's just no mainstream moderate Islam. The Prime Minister of Turkey even says so.

442 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:05:16pm

re: #432 lostlakehiker

we all know your libertarian positions on HCR, I am so not going to go play talking point pinball with you

443 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:06:17pm

re: #441 kamala

Of course there are. There's just no mainstream moderate Islam. The Prime Minister of Turkey even says so.

And HE certainly has no political agenda in the matter.

/

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:06:20pm

re: #441 kamala

Of course there are. There's just no mainstream moderate Islam. The Prime Minister of Turkey even says so.

Well, shit if a politician says it IT MUST BE TRUE!!!


You trolley Freeper types, you're a gas

445 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:06:59pm

re: #441 kamala

Of course there are. There's just no mainstream moderate Islam. The Prime Minister of Turkey even says so.

The Prime Minister of Turkey is a barely-veiled jihadist who has only remained in office by virtue of neutering the Army leadership before they could perform their traditional duty and remove him from office by force.

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:06:59pm

re: #443 wrenchwench

And HE certainly has no political agenda in the matter.

/

ahahahahaha I know rite

447 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:07:00pm

I'm out for awhile, got a cookout to attend, and there's a plate of beef brisket and ribs with my name on it.

448 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:07:18pm

Oh look, another troll (kmg) just entered the Krauthammer thread and is stealth up-dinging all the other trolls.

Hello, Lizards.

449 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:07:42pm

re: #323 windsagio

You know, some New Yorkers on this blog believe that you don't live in the city proper at all.

What?!?!?! His frequent reference to eating ravioli don't convince you?!?!?!?!!?

450 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:07:45pm

I remember the day Kennedy died. My brother and I along with everybody else were sent home and the school shut down for the next few days.

I remember feeling really horrible because I used to complain when one of his speeches interrupted my teevee time.

Later I learned about the utterly insane anti-Kennedy vitriol that led up to his murder.

Let me, God, please be wrong in the feeling I get these days of déjà vu.

451 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:08:00pm

re: #429 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'll be honest, I once thought a "moderate Muslim" was a myth.

Then I spent the better part of the last six years working for one and found out that he's one of the best bosses I've had.

I grew up in a massively mixed area - surrounded by African Muslims, Muslims from the South continent and far east.

I was blessed knowing people of all faiths and none, all colours and creeds and multiple ethnicities.

We all saw the good in each other - and at that age you work out that all races/creeds/ages have their assholes and their gems. Out of all the Muslims i grew up with only one seems to have gone ultra - handing out pamphlets outside our local library and yelling about homosexuals, he is the true exception.

452 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:08:11pm

re: #437 kamala

Dominionist preachers bother you but Rauf doesn't? And you're measuring that by how likely you think it is for their message to stick?

I know it's hard to fathom, but you know it's possible to reject both Sharia and any kind of theocratic Christianity simultaneously.

It is possible to reject both messages as unworthy of serious political consideration and still permit both groups to pursue building permits and zoning allowances without leaking neurons in response. Or, at least, it's possible for me. We're still not sure about you...

453 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:08:13pm

re: #448 CuriousLurker

Oh look, another troll (kmg) just entered the Krauthammer thread and is stealth up-dinging all the other trolls.

Hello, Lizards.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Welcome to the party. Pull up a chair, we're getting lectured on why Sharia is bad, m'kay.

454 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:09:19pm

re: #437 kamala

Dominionist preachers bother you but Rauf doesn't? And you're measuring that by how likely you think it is for their message to stick?

I know it's hard to fathom, but you know it's possible to reject both Sharia and any kind of theocratic Christianity simultaneously.

That establishment clause, that's a bitch for you fanatics, isn't it?

455 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:09:39pm

re: #449 bratwurst

What?!?!?! His frequent reference to eating ravioli don't convince you?!?!?!?!!?

HE HAS AN OPINION ON PIZZA

WHY HE MUST LIVE NEXT TO WOODY ALLEN

456 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:10:27pm

re: #448 CuriousLurker

Oh look, another troll (kmg) just entered the Krauthammer thread and is stealth up-dinging all the other trolls.

Hello, Lizards.

I was just going to mention that. Perhaps he'll suffer the same fate as 'desperate hippy'.

457 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:10:33pm

re: #437 kamala

Dominionist preachers bother you but Rauf doesn't? And you're measuring that by how likely you think it is for their message to stick?

I know it's hard to fathom, but you know it's possible to reject both Sharia and any kind of theocratic Christianity simultaneously.

Both of them bother me. Both are equally protected under the First Amendment.

It's hard for me to fathom how much mental obtuseness it requires not to get that.

458 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:11:00pm

re: #441 kamala

Be still for a sec....

Image: Troll_spray.jpg

459 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:12:07pm

re: #448 CuriousLurker

Oh look, another troll (kmg) just entered the Krauthammer thread and is stealth up-dinging all the other trolls.

Hello, Lizards.

Ah, there's really no better way to win a debate on the merits than to slink around like a craven rodent and push the little votey buttons, right?!

(hey CL!)

460 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:13:29pm

re: #438 reine.de.tout

OK, I've seen this before, but I'll re-watch to refresh my remembery.

The five pillars of morality, and their function/usefulness in both a primordial and modern environment, make a lot of sense. Also, notice how the data is so similar across cultures -- the 5 dimensions really seem to be a pretty universal fact.

But I'll wait for you to re-watch it.

461 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:14:24pm

re: #441 kamala

Of course there are. There's just no mainstream moderate Islam. The Prime Minister of Turkey even says so.

So you're knowledgeable enough about Islam to make sweeping statements, huh?

This should be easy for you then: Identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam. It shouldn't take you more than a few seconds as it can be summed up in one word.

462 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:14:36pm

re: #455 WindUpBird

HE HAS AN OPINION ON PIZZA

WHY HE MUST LIVE NEXT TO WOODY ALLEN

I pictured him living between Ed Koch and Big Bird myself.

463 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:15:13pm

re: #462 bratwurst

Real name: Oscar.

464 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:15:39pm

re: #389 Charles

Man, I tell you. I'm just starting to laugh now. It's like a demented game of whack-a-mole.

You got to admit, the sleeper trolls are persistent little buggers. What they lack in intellectual skills, they more than make up with their dedication to spreading the current astro-turf spin machine talking point.

465 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:15:44pm

*tap, tap, tap...* What's taking so long, kamala?

466 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:07pm

re: #465 CuriousLurker

*tap, tap, tap...* What's taking so long, kamala?

Oh, that guy's so out of here, he knows he's screwed :D

467 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:13pm

re: #462 bratwurst

I pictured him living between Ed Koch and Big Bird myself.

I live in the dark places of your mind...

468 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:34pm

re: #461 CuriousLurker

So you're knowledgeable enough about Islam to make sweeping statements, huh?

This should be easy for you then: Identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam. It shouldn't take you more than a few seconds as it can be summed up in one word.

Conquest!

///

469 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:34pm

re: #465 CuriousLurker

*chortle*

i hear the sound of gears grinding...

470 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:40pm

I don't know 'bout the rest of ya'll, but considering the number of Christians in this nation versus the nation of Muslims, I don't personally lose any sleep at night that there's gonna be a violent revolution tomorrow and Sharia made the law of the land.

471 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:16:59pm

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary."

"If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?"

-Hillel the Elder

472 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:17:07pm

re: #469 Aceofwhat?

*chortle*

i hear the sound of gears grinding...

*Kamala furiously googles izzlam with cheeto-stained fingers*

473 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:17:09pm

re: #468 JasonA

Conquest!

///

I was about to say 'questionable facial hair choices'//

474 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:17:10pm

re: #466 WindUpBird

Oh, that guy's so out of here, he knows he's screwed :D

Yeah, I've been watching you guys waiting for the sun to set. You looked like a bunch of angry bees with the down-dings. Remind me never to piss y'all off.

475 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:17:40pm

re: #469 Aceofwhat?

*chortle*

i hear the sound of gears grinding...

Damnit, who let him drive?! He's gonna strip the gears and then we're gonna have to buy a whole new transmission!

476 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:01pm

re: #474 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I've been watching you guys waiting for the sun to set. You looked like a bunch of angry bees with the down-dings. Remind me never to piss y'all off.

I'm pretty liberal with the dinger! Both up and down :D

477 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:20pm

re: #473 Aceofwhat?

I was about to say 'questionable facial hair choices'//

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

478 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:25pm

re: #475 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Damnit, who let him drive?! He's gonna strip the gears and then we're gonna have to buy a whole new transmission!

that sound you hear was a paradigm shifting without a clutch

479 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:29pm

kamala? You're not going to find the answer on Wikipedia.

480 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:32pm

re: #467 brookly red

So now you're the freakin' devil?

481 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:40pm

re: #475 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Damnit, who let him drive?! He's gonna strip the gears and then we're gonna have to buy a whole new transmission!

no way, dude...i'm not interested in tinkering around under that hood/

482 Gus  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:41pm

re: #470 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I don't know 'bout the rest of ya'll, but considering the number of Christians in this nation versus the nation of Muslims, I don't personally lose any sleep at night that there's gonna be a violent revolution tomorrow and Sharia made the law of the land.

Last year it was the atheists (or as Bill O'Reilly likes to call them - secular progressives) taking over. This week it's the Muslims taking over.

Someone's always taking over.

//The Russians are coming!

483 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:18:42pm

re: #477 Fozzie Bear

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

ZZ Top!

it's all so clear!

484 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:01pm

re: #477 Fozzie Bear

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

I knew there's been something fishy about those clean-shaven Popes we've been getting lately...

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:11pm

re: #479 CuriousLurker

kamala? You're not going to find the answer on Wikipedia.

hee!

*high five*

486 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:25pm

re: #482 Gus 802

Last year it was the atheists (or as Bill O'Reilly likes to call them - secular progressives) taking over. This week it's the Muslims taking over.

Someone's always taking over.

//The Russians are coming!

They better bring vodka with them!

487 Gus  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:27pm

The gays are taking over America with their Gay Agenda™!!11ty

488 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:33pm

re: #484 JasonA

I knew there's been something fishy about those clean-shaven Popes we've been getting lately...

Gandalf, that guy was pretty awesome, he invented hobbits or some shit

489 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:38pm

re: #474 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I've been watching you guys waiting for the sun to set. You looked like a bunch of angry bees with the down-dings. Remind me never to piss y'all off.

easy that... never speak the truth. (now can you guess the first 3 downdings?) yes I thought you could.

490 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:19:56pm

re: #483 WindUpBird

ZZ Top!

it's all so clear!

Youtube Video
491 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:20:12pm

re: #477 Fozzie Bear

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

or nature...how many deadly serious naturalists wander around without a thicket under their chin? not many//

492 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:20:26pm

re: #467 brookly red

I live in the dark old places of your mind...

Fixt!

493 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:20:45pm

I CAN HAS KAMALA?!?

494 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:20:48pm

re: #474 CuriousLurker

They don't really hurt after the first 5 or 6 hundred ;)


/seriously people stress way too much about dings. Its not like they effect your credit rating.

495 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:20:52pm

re: #480 windsagio

So now you're the freakin' devil?

only to you, only to you...

496 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:03pm

re: #489 brookly red

I live to serve :D

497 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:08pm

re: #482 Gus 802

Last year it was the atheists (or as Bill O'Reilly likes to call them - secular progressives) taking over. This week it's the Muslims taking over.

Someone's always taking over.

//The Russians are coming!

I was in Barnes & Noble today and I saw Newt's book, "To Save America: Stopping Obama's Secular-Socialist Machine." Why is "secular" being made into a dirty word? It's not about godlessness, it's about protecting your right to worship your god. Jeez.

498 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:13pm

re: #477 Fozzie Bear

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

I was always under the impression that it was the bigger the hat, meaning God must be wearin' a big friggin' sombrero.

"Who are you?"
"Can't you see the hat? I'm God!"

499 Gus  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:13pm

re: #486 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They better bring vodka with them!

Very good comrade. Drink warm vodka 'round campfire and sing songs of Volga boat men.

/

500 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:25pm

re: #495 brookly red

Psychic maybe.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

501 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:45pm

re: #494 windsagio

They don't really hurt after the first 5 or 6 hundred ;)

/seriously people stress way too much about dings. Its not like they effect your credit rating.

Yeah, i don't really take them that seriously, I use them to say "hey thanks! or I agree! or That post sucked! or that doesn't make sense and is a talking point or you're a douche!"

502 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:21:52pm

re: #498 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I was always under the impression that it was the bigger the hat, meaning God must be wearin' a big friggin' sombrero.

"Who are you?"
"Can't you see the hat? I'm God!"

I always thought there was some kind of stylistic convergence between the Amish and orthodox Jews.

503 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:15pm

kamaaaaaalaaaaa.... I can see you're still logged in. What's taking so long? You're not ignoring the question are you?

504 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:16pm

re: #494 windsagio

They don't really hurt after the first 5 or 6 hundred ;)

/seriously people stress way too much about dings. Its not like they effect your credit rating.

shush, i'm only 2 away from 4000, and i don't wanna blow it..............

505 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:19pm

re: #497 JasonA

I was in Barnes & Noble today and I saw Newt's book, "To Save America: Stopping Obama's Secular-Socialist Machine." Why is "secular" being made into a dirty word? It's not about godlessness, it's about protecting your right to worship your god. Jeez.

Newt now represents Christian supremacists, so...!

506 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:29pm

re: #501 WindUpBird

Yeah, i don't really take them that seriously, I use them to say "hey thanks! or I agree! or That post sucked! or that doesn't make sense and is a talking point or you're a douche!"

Exactly, as compared to:

"OH NO SOME RANDOM ASSHOLE ON THE INTERNET DOESNT" LIKE ME!"

507 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:34pm

re: #498 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I was always under the impression that it was the bigger the hat, meaning God must be wearin' a big friggin' sombrero.

"Who are you?"
"Can't you see the hat? I'm God!"

"Good idea, Oh Lord!"

Lord: "Of course it's a good idea."

Best. God. Quote. Ever.

508 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:54pm

re: #505 WindUpBird

Newt now represents Christian supremacists, so...!

God help us.

/

509 Gus  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:22:55pm

re: #497 JasonA

I was in Barnes & Noble today and I saw Newt's book, "To Save America: Stopping Obama's Secular-Socialist Machine." Why is "secular" being made into a dirty word? It's not about godlessness, it's about protecting your right to worship your god. Jeez.

Somewhere along the road they missed the concept. That's part of the building block of religious freedom (or freedom from) in this country: secularism.

510 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:23:07pm

re: #504 wozzablog

Dude, I wish there was a function to track how many -'s you'd gotten, that'd be awesome :D

512 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:23:23pm

re: #506 windsagio

Exactly, as compared to:

"OH NO SOME RANDOM ASSHOLE ON THE INTERNET DOESNT" LIKE ME!"

self loathing? oh my

513 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:23:35pm

re: #507 Aceofwhat?

Holy Grail.

514 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:24:05pm

re: #513 tnguitarist

Holy Grail.

"It's only a model."

515 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:24:09pm

re: #511 WindUpBird

KAMALA! YOU GET OUT OF THAT WRESTLING RING AND COME ANSWER THE NICE LADY'S QUESTIONS!!

Did you just make that?!? Or find it...either way!

517 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:24:51pm

re: #515 wrenchwench

Dudes real. The lotus of wrestling.

518 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:03pm

re: #479 CuriousLurker

kamala? You're not going to find the answer on Wikipedia.

Well, there's always Conservapedia.

519 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:04pm

I've forgotten the question already.

520 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:11pm

wow... I miss the good old days. this is so sad...

521 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:23pm

re: #504 wozzablog

thanks all xx

goddamnedfrank, Jeff In Ohio, Stanley Sea, windsagio, wrenchwench

522 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:23pm

re: #515 wrenchwench

Did you just make that?!? Or find it...either way!

there's an actual wrestler named Kamala :D

523 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:38pm

re: #511 WindUpBird

KAMALA! YOU GET OUT OF THAT WRESTLING RING AND COME ANSWER THE NICE LADY'S QUESTIONS!!

He was Edi Amin's body guard, doncha know.

524 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:44pm

re: #520 brookly red

wow... I miss the good old days. this is so sad...

KAMALA! YOU COME HERE AND DEFEND BROOKLY RED FROM US!

525 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:48pm

re: #517 Jeff In Ohio

Dudes real. The lotus of wrestling.

The source of the nic? Odd...

526 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:25:55pm

re: #520 brookly red

wow... I miss the good old days. this is so sad...

they are only a couple of clicks away.............

527 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:26:06pm

re: #523 bratwurst

He was Edi Amin's body guard, doncha know.

from parts unknown, weight unknown!

529 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:26:12pm

re: #521 wozzablog

It was me. The rest were just piling on.

530 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:26:42pm

re: #519 Stanley Sea

I've forgotten the question already.

the answer is 42 my friend, rest easy.

531 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:26:54pm

re: #529 Jeff In Ohio

It was me. The rest were just piling on.

I was #4001.

532 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:26:58pm

re: #528 Aceofwhat?

Kamala, did you take all the sugar again?!?!?

533 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:00pm

re: #526 wozzablog

they are only a couple of clicks away...

no they are gone forever...

534 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:10pm

re: #525 wrenchwench

Odd is the right word, though I was looking for something that would marry ironic and douche.

535 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:30pm

re: #529 Jeff In Ohio

It was me. The rest were just piling on.

well done that man :-)

(they weren't showing up in the spy, so i couldn't pin point it)

536 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:38pm

re: #533 brookly red

no they are gone forever...

Like tears...in rain...time to die.

/(too obscure?)

537 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:46pm

re: #531 wrenchwench

I was #4001.

I was 3999.

haha

538 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:27:55pm

re: #533 brookly red

no they are gone forever...

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be bro.

539 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:28:06pm

Hi, Buck!

540 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:28:08pm

re: #536 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like tears...in rain...time to die.

/(too obscure?)

JUST EYES! I JUST DO EYES!

541 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:28:17pm

re: #536 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like tears...in rain...time to die.

/(too obscure?)

blade runner, no ?

542 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:17pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

Kamala, did you take all the sugar again?!?!?



he's coming to get us

543 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:17pm

re: #540 WindUpBird

God I love that movie. Directors cut.

544 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:21pm
Youtube Video

Don't mess with Kamala, he's awesome, he's a giant


ahahah WWF poet laureate

545 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:23pm

You do all realise - hopefully - that it's a pineapple pizza party at mine if i ever hit 5.000...............

546 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:25pm

re: #536 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like tears...in rain...time to die.

/(too obscure?)

Not at all. Bladerunner

547 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:41pm

"Damn, this is a hip crowd!"

548 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:29:46pm

re: #539 Cato the Elder

Hi, Buck!

again with the stealth downdings?

549 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:06pm

re: #545 wozzablog

You do all realise - hopefully - that it's a pineapple pizza party at mine if i ever hit 5.000...

Pineapple...pizza?

BURN THE WITCH!

/

550 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:16pm

re: #548 Aceofwhat?

again with the stealth downdings?

The Buck Sucks Here!

551 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:27pm

re: #545 wozzablog

You do all realise - hopefully - that it's a pineapple pizza party at mine if i ever hit 5.000...

in that case, i will downding you mercilessly once it nears that point//

552 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:31pm

re: #520 brookly red

wow... I miss the good old days. this is so sad...

*hands brookly a hankie* There, there now. Don't make that face of I'll force you to sit in the corner and eat a whole pineapple pizza.

553 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:35pm

re: #544 WindUpBird

That was the best era of wrestling, at least when I was 8 ;)

554 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:30:59pm

re: #547 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Damn, this is a hip crowd!"

Ford/Kubrick/DIck, what a combination. One of Dicks best short stories, I think.

555 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:31:17pm

re: #551 Aceofwhat?

in that case, i will downding you mercilessly once it nears that point//

That would be hilarious, everyone furiously trying to hack away at someone's karma as they near 5000

it's down! it's up! it's all over the place!

556 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:31:35pm

re: #7 Thanos

I think it's entirely right that he uses the Presidential bully pulpit to point out how ridiculous and wrong opposition to a house of worship pretty much anywhere is...

I think it's horrible that any President should need to.

557 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:31:36pm

Later, lizards.

558 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:31:52pm

re: #552 CuriousLurker

You know, its just not the same since all the racist stalkers left >>

559 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:32:09pm

re: #552 CuriousLurker

*hands brookly a hankie* There, there now. Don't make that face of I'll force you to sit in the corner and eat a whole pineapple pizza.

your whole forced conversion thing I will resist :)

560 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:32:31pm

re: #468 JasonA

Conquest!

///

No, no.

Marxism!re: #520 brookly red

wow... I miss the good old days. this is so sad...

Youtube Video

Now don't say I didn't pick a nice version for you. You want sad? The first result for this music on goole video search was Justin Timberlake.

561 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:32:40pm

re: #558 windsagio

You know, its just not the same since all the racist stalkers left >>

Yeah. Bummer, huh?

562 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:33:23pm

re: #561 CuriousLurker

Yeah. Bummer, huh?

The blog was a better place when we were united in our hate of Islam!

563 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:34:14pm

re: #13 Jeff In Ohio

The President may have his donut now.

Michelle would like him to eat a more healthy treat I'm sure. Maybe one of those dried fruit bars?

564 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:34:15pm

re: #560 Nimed

No, no.

Marxism!re: #520 brookly red

[Video]

Now don't say I didn't pick a nice version for you. You want sad? The first result for this music on goole video search was Justin Timberlake.

/JT? a pox upon your ancestors...

565 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:34:27pm

re: #559 brookly red

your whole forced conversion thing I will resist :)

You WILL eat my sharia pineapple pizza, infidel! If not...
*scowls menacingly, reaches for scimitar*

566 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:34:56pm

re: #15 Charles

It's almost funny to read the comments of some of the more left wing bloggers like Greenwald. They really expected Obama to be as radical as they are, and it eats at them constantly that he isn't.

You'd think they just learned about politics a few months ago.

There was a lot of self-deception going on during the election.

567 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:35:12pm

re: #563 SanFranciscoZionist

Michelle would like him to eat a more healthy treat I'm sure. Maybe one of those dried fruit bars?

No. He can have a fruit bar at snack time. He did a good job, so he deserves a special treat.

568 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:35:16pm

re: #565 CuriousLurker

You WILL eat my sharia pineapple pizza, infidel! If not...
*scowls menacingly, reaches for scimitar*

maybe... do you got the big shoes on?

569 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:35:19pm

re: #565 CuriousLurker

You WILL eat my sharia pineapple pizza, infidel! If not...
*scowls menacingly, reaches for scimitar*

See that's something worth Jihad right there :D

/all power to the pineapple!

570 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:35:43pm

re: #19 sattv4u2

Nothing changes, just the crazy side you happen to be looking at at any given moment
For the last 3 years of his Presidency the 'right" was pissed at Bush for abandoning them
Prior to that, the '"left" was pissed that Clinton was so centrist
Before that, GHW Bush didn't follow Reaganism enough for the right
etc etc

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was!

Which is lucky, because if we ever had a president who made the right or left fringe really happy, we'd probably have big problems.

571 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:35:52pm

re: #555 WindUpBird

That would be hilarious, everyone furiously trying to hack away at someone's karma as they near 5000

it's down! it's up! it's all over the place!

heh - but will people remember?

I'm just gonna have to stop being a kharma whore for a while *it is possible, it is possible, it is possible*

572 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:36:22pm

re: #567 Jeff In Ohio

No. He can have a fruit bar at snack time. He did a good job, so he deserves a special treat.

Well he got to play putt-putt with Sasha today (after swimming in the gulf) and she got a hole in one!

573 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:36:51pm

re: #543 Jeff In Ohio

God I love that movie. Directors cut.

I personally prefer Ford's voice over. (heretic, I know)

574 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:37:19pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

The weirdest thing is my grandmother bellyaching about Obama not withdrawing the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. She was a huge Hillary supporter in the primaries.

Me too. Sigh.

She was so beautiful in her orange pantsuit...

575 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:37:37pm

re: #568 brookly red

maybe... do you got the big shoes on?

Yes, the ones with the lethal pointy toes. Mine have custom designed stainless steel wingtips made especially for dealing with stubborn infidels.

576 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:38:00pm

re: #572 Stanley Sea

Well he got to play putt-putt with Sasha today (after swimming in the gulf) and she got a hole in one!

Putt Putt at Alligator Point? Sigh, the world keeps changing...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

577 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:38:12pm

re: #575 CuriousLurker

Yes, the ones with the lethal pointy toes. Mine have custom designed stainless steel wingtips made especially for dealing with stubborn infidels.

"Kinky."

/

578 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:38:23pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too. Sigh.

She was so beautiful in her orange pantsuit...

I don't for the life of me get why some people really don't like her. She's freaking adorable.

579 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:38:51pm

re: #37 blueraven

And he never was a far lefty. I think people saw what they wanted to in Obama. Maybe that is because a lot of his positions are nuanced.
But he always said he would increase troops in Afghanistan, never promised a public option (though he preferred it), and many other things that the far left are against.
Yes he made promises who couldn't keep...Gitmo, is a big one. DADT still in place.
But he has accomplished an amazing amount of big legislation in a hostile political climate.

Not bad work, overall, but I went into this expecting him to be about what he is.

A lot of people really thought he was going to be something different.

The fringe left is now sulking because he isn't, while the fringe right has decided he is after all (a Maoist dictator modeled on Louis of France, that is), and run with it.

580 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:38:57pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too. Sigh.

She was so beautiful in her orange pantsuit...

So, how did she look so great at Chelsea's wedding? I was thinking chemical peel or at least several oxygen facials.

581 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:39:27pm

re: #575 CuriousLurker

Yes, the ones with the lethal pointy toes. Mine have custom designed stainless steel wingtips made especially for dealing with stubborn infidels.

Ooooh cool! sorry no amex # for you though ;)

582 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:40:07pm

re: #564 brookly red

/JT? a pox upon your ancestors...

Hey now. JT was easily the best SNL guest of the past few years...dude is legitimately funny.

583 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:40:37pm

re: #404 kamala

Um, my evidence shows that he supports Sharia and wants to see it established.

He's not talking about America...
Once again evangelical Christians scare me more when it comes to their talk about the law and the bible.

584 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:41:18pm

Good night everybody, well, most everybody.

585 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:41:34pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too. Sigh.

She was so beautiful in her orange pantsuit...

Eh. I can only remember her blue pantsuit.

586 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:41:47pm

re: #63 captdiggs

Obama is a very eloquent speaker and a lawyer. He surely could have evaded.
Or, he also could have endorsed the location, which he did not.

Not his business, either way, to do so.

587 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:41:50pm

*Lays out troll bait*

Obama is a great president! Sharia is cool! Yay Islam! Down with the GOP!

///

588 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:42:18pm

re: #447 RadicalModerate

I'm out for awhile, got a cookout to attend, and there's a plate of beef brisket and ribs with my name on it.

Beef. It's What's for dinner.

589 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:42:41pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout


Many of the flounced were truly fearful of what was going to happen when Obama took office. They truly were, truly believed he was a socialist and was going to wreak havoc and destroy this country.

I could see that...but I never understood where they were getting it from.

590 recusancy  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:43:00pm

re: #223 kamala

re: #195 Cato the Elder

If it's entirely fine to push back against those who call for Sharia, why are people so peeved at those who do push back against those calls?

Well as long as there's people pushing back against your rampant pedophilia. What's that? You say that's untrue. Well I'm pushing back against it anyways. It's the right thing to do.

591 Gus  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:43:16pm

Abbey Lincoln - Throw It Away

RIP

Youtube Video
592 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:43:19pm

Hey all how goes it tonight? I can't be on long but wanted to say hello.

593 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:43:38pm

re: #573 prairiefire

I personally prefer Ford's voice over. (heretic, I know)

Well, maybe the directors cut would have made less sense if I hadn't seen the original so many times and been intimate with 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep', so I can understand your preference. Visual feast.

re: #554 Jeff In Ohio

Ridley Scott. Not Kubrick. Dummy.

594 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:44:02pm

re: #92 windsagio

"How do you ask if someone's from NYC? You don't have to, they'll tell you in the first 3 sentences!"

Texans, too.

595 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:44:06pm

re: #592 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey all how goes it tonight? I can't be on long but wanted to say hello.

Sure, leave it to us to deal with this nonsense. :P

596 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:44:06pm

re: #588 eclectic infidel

Beef. It's What's for dinner.

No beef! (link didn't work)

597 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:44:30pm

re: #575 CuriousLurker

Yes, the ones with the lethal pointy toes. Mine have custom designed stainless steel wingtips made especially for dealing with stubborn infidels.

btw my ex is Persian & an ex RG member... do you know how to do that chain thing?

598 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:44:34pm

re: #591 Gus 802

Abbey Lincoln - Throw It Away

RIP


[Video]

Oh, I am sorry to hear that. A substantial woman, indeed.

599 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:45:03pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

I could see that...but I never understood where they were getting it from.

Palin. Fox. It was being pushed hard as a meme. It was the basis of the McCain/Palin campaign.

600 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:46:01pm

re: #597 brookly red

btw my ex is Persian & an ex RG member... do you know how to do that chain thing?

What's RG? Umm, chain thing? I'm afraid to even ask.

Say something in Farsi.

601 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #595 JasonA

Sure, leave it to us to deal with this nonsense. :P

Yeah well, what can I do? The nation that I love has come to a point where the president has had to remind people that the First Amendment applies to all Americans - and something like 40% are pissed off at that.

602 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:46:28pm

re: #130 abbyadams

They were NOT PAYING ATTENTION. I saw candidate Obama when he came to my neck o' the woods. I'm completely frustrated by those more left than me who feel betrayed. He laid out many of his policies in the town hall, and there were just nothing extremely left about them. Some people bought into the hype that he was sooo liberal. They didn't notice the source of that particular meme, I reckon.

"If the right hates him, he must be good!!"

603 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:46:40pm

re: #593 Jeff In Ohio

So...how intimate were you with Daryl Hannah???[Link: www.brmovie.com...]

604 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:47:01pm

Palin:
"Mr. President, should they or should they not build a mosque steps away from where radical Islamists killed 3000 people? "

I hate her.
How many "steps away" are far enough?
And why steps...why not feet?
2 or 3 blocks in NYC is a lot of steps, it is not like walking from her compound to the lake.

605 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:47:48pm

re: #596 Stanley Sea

No beef! (link didn't work)

BEEF!

Forgot the "http//"

606 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:06pm

re: #574 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too. Sigh.

She was so beautiful in her orange pantsuit...

I have to admit, she's really grown on me since the primaries. Hillary for you and me:

Youtube Video
607 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:28pm

re: #602 SanFranciscoZionist

"If the right hates him, he must be good!!"

As we said back in the day, "If you're taking flak, then you're over the target."

608 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:29pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Lets call "fly over" country people

and New Yorkers as

.

Oh,, what humor !!!

I have no idea what you can say about people in Contra Costa County.

609 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:41pm

re: #603 prairiefire

So...how intimate were you with Daryl Hannah???[Link: www.brmovie.com...]

2 children and a coke habit. We're done now.

610 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #599 Fozzie Bear

Palin. Fox. It was being pushed hard as a meme. It was the basis of the McCain/Palin campaign.

You mean like how they both ran on Cap and Trade, a Reagan idea that was used to deal with acid rain?

611 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:57pm

re: #604 webevintage

And why steps...why not feet?
2 or 3 blocks in NYC is a lot of steps, it is not like walking from her compound to the lake.

Well, when you can see Russia out of your living room window, the mosque really does seem only a few steps away from GZ//

612 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:48:58pm

re: #600 CuriousLurker

What's RG? Umm, chain thing? I'm afraid to even ask.

Say something in Farsi.

RG is Revolutionary Guard, the chain thing is kinky, and the only Farsi I know is how to order a meal or insult a Kos (cos) kid.

613 Nimed  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:49:43pm

re: #578 Fozzie Bear

I don't for the life of me get why some people really don't like her. She's freaking adorable.

Some people lack the charism to be natural born politicians, and Hillary is one of them. They can't fake niceness and relaxation.

Examples of politicians with the gift: Reagan, Bill Clinton, Bush II, Obama, McCain.

Without: Bush I, Hillary, Romney, Al Gore, Edwards, McConnell, Pelosi.

Oh, and also the War in Iraq.

614 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:49:46pm

re: #460 Nimed

The five pillars of morality, and their function/usefulness in both a primordial and modern environment, make a lot of sense. Also, notice how the data is so similar across cultures -- the 5 dimensions really seem to be a pretty universal fact.

But I'll wait for you to re-watch it.

Yes, the data being so similar across cultures was very interesting.

I've done a "page" on this to get the discussion started. I'm not sure exactly what you wanted, so I just put down what came to my mind, and we can take the discussion from there, if you're interested. I'm a bit embarrassed, honestly - I'm no sage or deep thinker, just a simple person, and so what I've written you may find overly simple, or not the direction you envisioned (but it was an open assignment!). But it's a starting point.

615 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:51:03pm

For any football fans, I think my man Aaron Rodgers is ready for the season. 10-for-10 for 146 yards and a touchdown in 1 quarter of work (yeah, against the Browns, but, as Cantor would say, come on.

616 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:51:14pm

re: #612 brookly red

RG is Revolutionary Guard, the chain thing is kinky, and the only Farsi I know is how to order a meal or insult a Kos (cos) kid.

Ah, okay, Revolutionary Guards. You mean the chain thing where they beat their bare backs? That's a Shia tradition.

LOL, the Kos kids thing always makes me giggle.

617 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:51:33pm

I'll admit, I would have voted for Hillary back in '08. I wasn't all that wild with McCain, but Obama didn't strike me as having a good enough grip on the whole deal to be an effective leader. Yeah, I consider her a bit of a bitch and a ball-breaker, but in the modern political arena, that's the kinda president you need.

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:51:42pm

re: #166 goddamnedfrank

Yes, having just recently gotten landmark preservation board permission to demolish the existing Burlington Coat Factory building, without any real design or construction blueprints, they have firm plans to be open on a specific date a little over a year away. How credulous are you?

However, 9/12/10 is DEFINITELY "Burn a Confederate Flag Day".

Pharyngula has spoken.

I'd do it myself, except that in my neighborhood, it's hardly a gesture.

619 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:52:07pm

re: #615 JamesWI

10 for 10 vs the JV is damn good.

620 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:52:10pm

re: #613 Nimed

Some people lack the charism to be natural born politicians, and Hillary is one of them. They can't fake niceness and relaxation.

Examples of politicians with the gift: Reagan, Bill Clinton, Bush II, Obama, McCain.

Without: Bush I, Hillary, Romney, Al Gore, Edwards, McConnell, Pelosi.

Oh, and also the War in Iraq.

Wait... I thought that was referring to M.O.

I used to be a HRC fan, until she started the birther meme in a fit of craven machiavellian triangulation. Now, I am not a big fan of HRC. Using racism as a political tool is unforgivable, imo.

621 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:52:34pm

re: #615 JamesWI

For any football fans, I think my man Aaron Rodgers is ready for the season. 10-for-10 for 146 yards and a touchdown in 1 quarter of work (yeah, against the Browns, but, as Cantor would say, come on.

AR can play.

Also: the preseason blackout rule= dumb.

622 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:52:39pm

No more questions about Pris.

There's also Rachael and Zhora:[Link: www.brmovie.com...]

Sean Young rode past me on her bike in Santa Monica. She was smiling at my daughter as I pushed in her stroller. Probably noting my daughter's vibrant aura./

623 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:52:53pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

I could see that...but I never understood where they were getting it from.

Me either.

624 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:53:17pm

re: #616 CuriousLurker

Ah, okay, Revolutionary Guards. You mean the chain thing where they beat their bare backs? That's a Shia tradition.

LOL, the Kos kids thing always makes me giggle.

yeah like that... but I so love the food.

625 justaminute  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:53:18pm

re: #612 brookly red

I'll teach you a new one. My son's new wife name is Kira, which mean penis in Farsi. There some fun times when we had to introduce her to my husband's friends and family. Ha

626 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:53:24pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Looking at google news. Apparently some shithead GOP congressional candidate in Kansas slurred his Indian American candidate. So when you can't win with ideas, I guess the only answer is a turban joke. Indian food by the way is awesome.

Looked that up. Good LORD.

627 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:54:17pm

re: #621 Aceofwhat?

AR can play.

Also: the preseason blackout rule= dumb.

What game do you want/need

For a small daily stipend, I can provide any game you desire
//

628 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:54:31pm

re: #625 justaminute

I'll teach you a new one. My son's new wife name is Kira, which mean penis in Farsi. There some fun times when we had to introduce her to my husband's friends and family. Ha

I just had a customer, a male customer, named Ariel. I had fun with him :)

629 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:54:55pm

re: #170 webevintage

My favorite complaint about this:
Why did he make that comment?

Ummm, because a reporter asked him that specific question...

New Palin blather:
@ SarahPalinUSA
9/11 mosque=act of fitna, "equivalent to bldg Serbian Orthodox church@Srebrenica killing fields where Muslims were slaughtered" - Raza&Fatah

Who wants to bet she had no idea what the "Srebrenica killing fields" were until today?
and what does fitna mean?

'Fitna' supposedly means something like 'malicious troublemaking', but Sarah only knows that because of either the short film of the same name, or Robert Spencer.

I bet Spencer would build a Serbian Orthodox Church over the graves in Srbrenica in a heartbeat.

Rodan el Loco sure would.

630 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:54:56pm

re: #628 JasonA

I just had a customer, a male customer, named Ariel. I had fun with him :)

in bed!!?!?!

/

631 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:10pm

re: #625 justaminute

I'll teach you a new one. My son's new wife name is Kira, which mean penis in Farsi. There some fun times when we had to introduce her to my husband's friends and family. Ha

just call her the prick? would that work?

632 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:24pm

re: #627 sattv4u2

What game do you want/need

For a small daily stipend, I can provide any game you desire
//

heh...when college football starts up, i may be begging you for mercy. i like watching the SEC, but i'm still a big10 fan at heart...

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:32pm

re: #173 captdiggs

There are dozens or articles by people like Ed Koch, Charles Krauthammer and others that have made perfectly reasonable arguments.

But here, they are all written off as "wingnuts" and "bigots".

No, here their arguments have been weighed, and found wanting by most. That's not unfairly unfair.

634 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:35pm

re: #624 brookly red

yeah like that... but I so love the food.

I love the food too. I can cook several Iranian dishes really well, so I eat the food on a pretty regular basis. And I always cook my white rice Persian style. :)

635 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:41pm

re: #620 Fozzie Bear

I am so sick of triangulation I could spit. Obama would have higher numbers if he practiced it like Clinton.
As it is I think President Obama just rides it through on his strong ego and sense of conviction. It helps that I agree with him on most things.

636 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:55:50pm

re: #175 kamala

Is it un-American to call for Sharia?

Where?

637 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:56:27pm

re: #634 CuriousLurker

I love the food too. I can cook several Iranian dishes really well, so I eat the food on a pretty regular basis. And I always cook my white rice Persian style. :)

but you are married no?

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:56:28pm

re: #177 JasonA

It's not un-American to call for it. It's un-American to actually institute it.

...outside the personal lives of people who have accepted it as a part of their faith.

639 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:56:29pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

I could see that...but I never understood where they were getting it from.

re: #623 reine.de.tout

Me either.

Youtube Video

It's not hard to understand where it came from. It is extremely obvious.

640 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:57:03pm

re: #635 prairiefire

Wait! You agree with President Obama on many things?

Color me shocked.
/

641 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:57:04pm

re: #629 SanFranciscoZionist

So you think she got fitna from dubious sources? I had never heard of it before.

642 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:57:10pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

...outside the personal lives of people who have accepted it as a part of their faith.

I thought it was kind of implied that I meant for the rest of us. :)

643 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:57:36pm

re: #640 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wait! You agree with President Obama on many things?

Color me shocked.
/

No, you are not.

644 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:57:54pm

re: #616 CuriousLurker


LOL, the Kos kids thing always makes me giggle.

When you get to a certain age, MOST people seem like kids...Kos or no.

645 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:07pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Where?

In other places that are not actually America and are Islamic countries and...something like that.
It was a stupid argument.

646 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:19pm

re: #644 bratwurst

When you get to a certain age, MOST people seem like kids...Kos or no.

"Damn kids, get off my lawn!"

647 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:23pm

re: #622 prairiefire

No more questions about Pris.

There's also Rachael and Zhora:[Link: www.brmovie.com...]

Sean Young rode past me on her bike in Santa Monica. She was smiling at my daughter as I pushed in her stroller. Probably noting my daughter's vibrant aura./

Sean Young was great in that role. Right up there with Jennifer Connelly's role in Dark City. Dark, beautiful, fragile - most of her acting through face and body. Fantastic actress. Another great, thoughtful Sci-Fi flick.

648 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:29pm

re: #217 kamala

Gotcha. Is it un-American to protest someone (or some org) that calls for it?re: #177 JasonA

Gotcha -- is it un-American to protest someone or some org that calls for it?

Clarify. What do you think 'calling for sharia' means, besides standing on your back porch and screaming "Shariaaaaaahhh!!"?

649 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:32pm

re: #644 bratwurst

When you get to a certain age, MOST people seem like kids...Kos or no.

you missed it...

650 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:58:37pm

re: #637 brookly red

but you are married no?

Nope—divorced. I had tons of Iranian friends back in Texas, which is how I learned to cook the food.

651 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 5:59:15pm

re: #223 kamala

re: #195 Cato the Elder

If it's entirely fine to push back against those who call for Sharia, why are people so peeved at those who do push back against those calls?

Mostly because they make the calls up themselves for the purpose of pushing them back.

652 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:03pm

re: #648 SanFranciscoZionist

Clarify. What do you think 'calling for sharia' means, besides standing on your back porch and screaming "Shariaaahhh!!"?

I'm gonna name my next cat Sharia just so I can do that.

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:04pm

re: #231 kamala

I just don't understand why so many folks are fine w/ Abdul Rauf calling for Sharia but are up in arms about protests against his desire to build a big Islamic center near the site of a big Jihad attack?

Got a quote or something? Repeat, what do you think 'calling for sharia' means? Is it the same as 'dialing for dollars'?

654 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:12pm

That's actually one of the reasons I like LGF, makes me feel young.

655 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:43pm

re: #650 CuriousLurker

Nope—divorced. I had tons of Iranian friends back in Texas, which is how I learned to cook the food.

well I according to some am a dangerous domestic wingnut... wanna blow something up? (and have dinner later)

656 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:44pm

re: #227 sagehen

You're wrong about the beer (Brooklyn has quite the thriving little micro-brewery culture).

But it is crowded, you can't drive, and also we have winter.


I said not AS good! (according to the Great American beer Festival)

There's lots of NY beers I like (the Brooklyner-Schneider coollaboration is awesome) it's just that the culture of New York doesn't revolve around beer like Portland's does

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:00:51pm

re: #241 kamala

Um, who is calling for their freedom to be abridged? People are protesting and using legal methods to discourage the building of the mosque. Is that ok?

The governor of NY is talking big about using eminent domain to prevent it. I would say that's a little over the line.

658 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:01:11pm

re: #654 windsagio

That's actually one of the reasons I like LGF, makes me feel young.

heh, seriously...you're a geezer on 4chan, aren't you?

659 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:01:55pm

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

Got a quote or something? Repeat, what do you think 'calling for sharia' means? Is it the same as 'dialing for dollars'?

It's like calling shotgun :D

660 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:14pm

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

heh, seriously...you're a geezer on 4chan, aren't you?

haha yes ;_;

661 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:24pm

re: #262 kamala

So protesting when "based on prejudice" is un-American? Gotcha -- thanks for that lesson in constitutional law.

It's not illegal. I would argue that it's immoral, and yes, un-American.

662 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:35pm

re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist

The governor of NY is talking big about using eminent domain to prevent it. I would say that's a little over the line.

What? Paterson is a grade A prick? Nooo...

663 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:37pm

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

I'm too old for 4chan, damn kids piss me off >>

They think jokes we thought up in the early '90s are OH SO EDGY!

664 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:47pm

re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist

The governor of NY is talking big about using eminent domain to prevent it. I would say that's a little over the line.

no that is the candidate for governor... the actual governor has a pretty good stance...

665 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:49pm

re: #264 kamala

Fine, then you support the right of people to protest their building it, too, right? Done.

Sure. I also support my right to call them dumbasses, very loudly.

666 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:02:57pm

re: #663 windsagio

I'm too old for 4chan, damn kids piss me off >>

They think jokes we thought up in the early '90s are OH SO EDGY!

I enjoy the image macros!

667 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:03:10pm

re: #663 windsagio

Also been known to complain that SA was never the same since Lowtax sold out.

668 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:03:18pm

re: #548 Aceofwhat?

again with the stealth downdings?

What exactly is stealth about any downding?

669 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:03:25pm

re: #655 brookly red

well I according to some am a dangerous domestic wingnut... wanna blow something up? (and have dinner later)

The only thing I want to blow up is... well, actually I can't think of anything right now. Oh, wait, let's blow up some trolls! Then we can make ghormeh sabi with troll meat.

670 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:03:37pm

re: #668 Buck

Take part in the conversation, if you dare :D

671 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:09pm

re: #666 WindUpBird

I enjoy the image macros!

All hail the dark lord, WUB!

672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:11pm

re: #654 windsagio

That's actually one of the reasons I like LGF, makes me feel young.

Wanna do some Lincoln assassination reminiscing?

673 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:14pm

re: #655 brookly red

well I according to some am a dangerous domestic wingnut... wanna blow something up? (and have dinner later)

Don't htink you're dangerous, just dishonest.

*rimshot*

674 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:17pm

re: #654 windsagio

That's actually one of the reasons I like LGF, makes me feel young.

You are young.

675 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:35pm

re: #668 Buck

What exactly is stealth about any downding?

Downding without participating in the conversation which so offended ye.

Any other patently obvious concepts that i can help you with? i'm a servant like that...

676 windsagio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:04:38pm

re: #674 Jeff In Ohio

You are young.

It's all comparative man...

677 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #675 Aceofwhat?

Downding without participating in the conversation which so offended ye.

Any other patently obvious concepts that i can help you with? i'm a servant like that...

I'm a stealth updinger.

Is that wrong?

678 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:05:15pm

re: #673 windsagio

Don't htink you're dangerous, just dishonest.

*rimshot*

I don't think you are dangerous, just an ass and rimming? ewwww

679 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:05:17pm

re: #669 CuriousLurker

The only thing I want to blow up is... well, actually I can't think of anything right now. Oh, wait, let's blow up some trolls! Then we can make ghormeh sabi sabzi with troll meat.

PIMF

680 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:05:39pm

re: #664 brookly red

no that is the candidate for governor... the actual governor has a pretty good stance...

Lazio, too. I don't know if he want as far as calling for ED, but he's come out against it.

681 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:05:57pm

SFZ will get to my Hilary comment here in a bit.

I've got "Hot Tub Time Machine" to watch tonight, unrated version.

682 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:06:10pm

re: #311 kamala

Read this segment of an interview (in Arabic) with Rauf. Carefully.

Can you please provide a link for the sake of context?

683 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:06:16pm

re: #677 marjoriemoon

I'm a stealth updinger.

Is that wrong?

au contraire, mon amie...it's highly encouraged!

684 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:06:28pm

re: #680 JasonA

Lazio, too. I don't know if he want as far as calling for ED, but he's come out against it.

try not to sound so down about it.

685 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:07:12pm

re: #325 kamala

For me, it's easy -- I support interpretations of Islam that reject the notion of bringing Sharia to the US, that reject Islam's call to subjugate non-Muslims worldwide, that reject calls to beat disobedient women, that reject the death penalty for apostates, that reject polygamy, that reject child marriage.

Crazy, I know -- call me a wingnut.

I'd think you'd be in favor of this project then.

686 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:07:29pm

re: #681 prairiefire

SFZ will get to my Hilary comment here in a bit.

I've got "Hot Tub Time Machine" to watch tonight, unrated version.

ouch. i heard bad things.

687 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:07:37pm

"The Siege" is coming on. I've never seen it (other than a Tony Shalhoub scene)... is it worth it?

688 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:07:37pm

re: #681 prairiefire

SFZ will get to my Hilary comment here in a bit.

I've got "Hot Tub Time Machine" to watch tonight, unrated version.

"It's like Gary Coleman's forearm!"

You'll see.....

689 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:08:02pm

re: #676 windsagio

It's all comparative man...

How old would you be if you didn't know how old you were. - Satchel Page.

I'm soon to be 32! No small feat after being 25 for 20 years.

690 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:08:06pm

re: #650 CuriousLurker

Nope—divorced.

Mazel Tov! Welcome to the club.

691 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:08:19pm

re: #684 brookly red

try not to sound so down about it.

Heh. The really sad part is that this can only help his numbers.

692 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:08:44pm

re: #687 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Siege" is coming on. I've never seen it (other than a Tony Shalhoub scene)... is it worth it?

I wasn't too crazy about it.

693 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:09:05pm

re: #687 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Siege" is coming on. I've never seen it (other than a Tony Shalhoub scene)... is it worth it?

you mean you're not watching Federer v. Djokovic? for shame/

694 brookly red  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:09:32pm

well I gotta make a pizza run... so feel free to f'up the world in my absence.

695 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:10:27pm

I'm really behind in movies, so it's Julie & Julia tonight for me.

696 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:10:27pm

re: #345 abolitionist

Sharia -- BBC article

The first of several references under Further Reading:
Islam: A Sacred Law: What Every Muslim Should Know About the Shariah, Feisal Abdul Rauf, Kazi Pubns. ISBN: 0939660709

I've not read his book, but I understand that he promoted it (his book, and presumably Sharia) as a guest speaker at the 2009 Hisb-ul-tahrir conference.

Here's the problem. People do not seem to be able to understand that Sharia is a binding legal system upon Muslims, but the vast majority of American Muslims do not favor (or give any thought to) imposing it as the legal system of the United States. It's not even the legal system in most Muslim nations.

I can buy a book on the laws of marriage for Jewish women, but that doesn't mean I expect Congress to enforce mikvah and head covering.

697 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:11:09pm

re: #694 brookly red

PINEAPPLE!

698 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:11:16pm

re: #675 Aceofwhat?

Downding without participating in the conversation which so offended ye.

Any other patently obvious concepts that i can help you with? i'm a servant like that...

Rules for me but not for thee.

If I see something I find offensive, or really disagree with, I downding it. Are you really saying that everyone who presses plus or minus have to make a post defending their feeling?

Maybe you can show me where that rule is.

699 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:11:18pm

re: #695 Stanley Sea

I'm really behind in movies, so it's Julie & Julia tonight for me.

We're (well my husband mostly) watching The Usual Suspects for the 20th time.

700 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:11:59pm

re: #694 brookly red

well I gotta make a pizza run... so feel free to f'up the world in my absence.

a large green pepper and sausage for me!

oh ,, and a small anchovie

701 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:12:23pm

re: #610 LudwigVanQuixote

Hello, you!

702 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:12:29pm

re: #690 goddamnedfrank

Mazel Tov! Welcome to the club.

Heh, I'm almost embarrassed to admit how much I love living by myself. I was never very good at the being married thing. Wayyyy to stubborn and and independent. Thank goodness for my cats being low-maintenance, because that's about all the neediness I can take. ;)

703 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:12:49pm

re: #699 webevintage

We're (well my husband mostly) watching The Usual Suspects for the 20th time.

THE LITTLE GUY DID IT!11!

704 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:11pm

re: #699 webevintage

What an amazing movie.

705 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:13pm

re: #360 kamala

Oh ok, you think I made that up? Try Google translate on this link:

[Link: www.hadielislam.com...]

I think you got the translation somewhere. Here's what I get:

To different walks of science vary minds to receive this science and produces this difference of multiple views in the employment of reality so that copes with the events and requirements, but is different minds, albeit for different walks of knowledge and culture about religion Can the application of rules and his staff on the needs of the individual and the duties so that religion is the approach life on which we base our daily dealings and from the extract rules and laws that Nthakm them when the difference or to be separation of church and state? This was the theme of dialogue, which revolved around the questions with .. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

The question is: What is the point of separation of religion and state in Islam.?

Concept in the West in general that the religious bodies do not have any impact on decision making in the country and Europe, the case of religion suffers from the weakness and lack of demand for people with the case in the United States U.S., the majority religious and believe in God, yet the concept of separation of church and state also that the strength of the state is not used in the pressure on religious freedoms and generally maintains on religious freedoms, and in America as well as the State does not interfere in how to perform religious rites and details, structure, and how to manage.

And in the Muslim world after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the nation-state that the traditional relationship between the State and religious institutions had to be cut and separation led to a reaction represented in the Islamic movements seeking to establish Islamic states in the Muslim world.

If we look to history after a period of Caliphs there was a kind of separation between the authority and religious institutions of some of the imams and Muslims on a personal level are required to follow the Prophet peace be upon him in all aspects of his life so affordable and collectively, we believe that the state established by Prophet Muhammad upon him in Madinah was the best image of the Islamic state, and the challenge today in the Islamic world how to apply it in the present era.

Many of the political Islamic movements and jihadi speak for the State and the Islamic caliphate approach prophet .. you can apply that in this day and age?


Challenge which we have referred to is how we recall the basis and criteria on which the Prophet peace be upon him an Islamic state in the city? This is the challenge of how to apply the principles and approach the Prophet in contemporary circumstances, and the changing context of contemporary society, and this challenge has confronted scientists and scholars throughout Islamic history and led to the establishment of Islamic schools and the diversity of opinions deemed equally valid.

Now the question of our time through my discussions with contemporary scholars that the Islamic state today can be found in more than one form, template, for example, can be ownership of the Republic.

What is important is the application of general principles of Islamic law needed to govern, and is well known that there is a set of criteria agreed upon by scholars to regulate the relationship between the ruler and the ruled.

Could be understood as the separation of state and religion - or religious authority - if the rulers were Muslims evenhanded justice and spread of Islam .. but when the referees ruled contrary to the laws and the status of Islam .. what is working for religious institutions??

706 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:38pm

re: #703 Jeff In Ohio

THE LITTLE GUY DID IT!11!

IX-NAY ON THE OILER-SPAY!

707 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:48pm

Did you know that the founder of the stalker blog was once pro AGW?

Seriously!

Back when Charles was still undecided about the science of AGW, but really strongly hammering away on the creationists about evolution, out of sheer hatred of Charles, he made a massive post about how AGW is real and Charles was all sorts of things for not getting the science.

I made a post about it, because what is of interest here is that Charles of course, then looked into the actual science, saw the evidence, and made a determination that the science is sound, after he educated himself. This is to his eternal credit.

The stalkers, on the other hand, "decide" scientific validity based on who they think is popular, who they hate and what has been whispered.

Very scientific...

This dovetails exactly into the major problem that professional scientists like me face when trying to deal with skeptics. It is hard enough to teach science to someone who wants to learn. It is impossible to teach it to people who think you are a socialist, communist, tranzi progressive.

The fossil fuel industry, their shills and pet politicians bank on this.

708 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:52pm

re: #382 kamala

b_sharp, can we get back to that question you didn't want to answer?

Sure. Guilt by association does nothing for me, never has, never will. Show me the intent for the community centre is something nefarious.

I read the blurb you posted and saw a man trying to be true to his religion and promoting peace. I did not see a man promoting the institutionalizing of sharia in the US.

709 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:13:56pm

re: #696 SanFranciscoZionist

Here's the problem. People do not seem to be able to understand that Sharia is a binding legal system upon Muslims, but the vast majority of American Muslims do not favor (or give any thought to) imposing it as the legal system of the United States. It's not even the legal system in most Muslim nations.

I can buy a book on the laws of marriage for Jewish women, but that doesn't mean I expect Congress to enforce mikvah and head covering.

THIS. Exactly.

710 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:14:13pm

re: #345 abolitionist

Sharia -- BBC article

The first of several references under Further Reading:
Islam: A Sacred Law: What Every Muslim Should Know About the Shariah, Feisal Abdul Rauf, Kazi Pubns. ISBN: 0939660709

I've not read his book, but I understand that he promoted it (his book, and presumably Sharia) as a guest speaker at the 2009 Hisb-ul-tahrir conference.

Perhaps he was attempting to de-radicalize the folk there?

711 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:14:31pm

re: #698 Buck

Rules for me but not for thee.

If I see something I find offensive, or really disagree with, I downding it. Are you really saying that everyone who presses plus or minus have to make a post defending their feeling?

Maybe you can show me where that rule is.

It's not a rule. It explains my derision. The only rules you need to obey are Charles'. You asked for an explanation of my sarcasm and you received it. Do as you wish, spade.

712 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:14:38pm

re: #706 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

IX-NAY ON THE OILER-SPAY!

IT WAS HIS SLED!!!

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:14:44pm

re: #366 kamala

Rauf has never rejected ANY of those things. Provide ANY evidence that he has. He's had many interviews about Sharia and never once called for rejection of any elements of Sharia. Please. Read his words carefully.

Of course he doesn't. He's a freaking Imam! Would you expect a rabbi to 'call for rejection of any elements of halacha'? No. But the way he interprets the tradition is essential.

714 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:14:51pm

mmmmm,,

Key Lime pie with a graham cracker crust, a dollop of whipped cream on top and a large glass of ice cold milk

life is good!

715 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:15:25pm

re: #377 kamala

JamesWI -- when did I ever say he's a terrorist? Terrorism is a red-herring. The War on Terror was one of the most unfortunate euphemisms ever created -- and yes, I know, it was GW Bush who did it. The Muslim Brotherhood has explicitly called for bringing Islamic Law to the US and other parts of the world through peaceful means. Does that make it any more palatable?

No, but I'm not betting on their chances.

716 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:15:28pm

re: #707 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey - congratulations! We all knew it was a matter of time 'til someone managed to lasso you, ya handsome mug.

717 bratwurst  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:16:07pm

re: #698 Buck

If I see something I find offensive, or really disagree with, I downding it.


Your karma score wouldn't be possible if I and others didn't have the same mentality.

718 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:00pm

re: #698 Buck

Rules for me but not for thee.

If I see something I find offensive, or really disagree with, I downding it. Are you really saying that everyone who presses plus or minus have to make a post defending their feeling?

Maybe you can show me where that rule is.

Buck its not an iron rule, but its bad form especially for those who have been active in discussing.

719 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:04pm

re: #716 Guanxi88

Hey - congratulations! We all knew it was a matter of time 'til someone managed to lasso you, ya handsome mug.

Hey thank you! I am indeed quite lassoed!

720 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:10pm

re: #713 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course he doesn't. He's a freaking Imam! Would you expect a rabbi to 'call for rejection of any elements of halacha'? No. But the way he interprets the tradition is essential.

"Well, yeah. But we xenophobes like rabbis now. At least until we've dealt with the Muslims."

721 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:15pm

re: #404 kamala

Um, my evidence shows that he supports Sharia and wants to see it established.

Who gives a crap about what the popular right-wingers want? I reject what they want too!

Your evidence doesn't actually do that, and I'd like to know where your translation comes from. Do you read Arabic?

722 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:39pm

re: #483 WindUpBird

ZZ Top!

it's all so clear!

They have his itinerary!

Youtube Video
723 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:17:48pm

re: #716 Guanxi88

Hey - congratulations! We all knew it was a matter of time 'til someone managed to lasso you, ya handsome mug.

Oh yeah, I read that in an older thread today. Mazel tov, LVQ!

724 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:18:46pm

I'm watching The Nazis, A Warning From History, as reccomended here a wekk ago or so.

Excellent documentary. I just thought I'd link it here, since I found a place you can watch the whole thing online, for free.

725 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:19:08pm

re: #707 LudwigVanQuixote

Did you know that the founder of the stalker blog was once pro AGW?

Seriously!

Back when Charles was still undecided about the science of AGW, but really strongly hammering away on the creationists about evolution, out of sheer hatred of Charles, he made a massive post about how AGW is real and Charles was all sorts of things for not getting the science.

I made a post about it, because what is of interest here is that Charles of course, then looked into the actual science, saw the evidence, and made a determination that the science is sound, after he educated himself. This is to his eternal credit.

The stalkers, on the other hand, "decide" scientific validity based on who they think is popular, who they hate and what has been whispered.

Very scientific...

This dovetails exactly into the major problem that professional scientists like me face when trying to deal with skeptics. It is hard enough to teach science to someone who wants to learn. It is impossible to teach it to people who think you are a socialist, communist, tranzi progressive.

The fossil fuel industry, their shills and pet politicians bank on this.

A lot of people decide what they think is true based on popularity and which side they think is likely to win. Normally, It's a survival trait. In this case, it may doom billions.

726 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:19:13pm

re: #707 LudwigVanQuixote

Did you know that the founder of the stalker blog was once pro AGW?

It is just my opinion, but your recent obsession with that site, and the 8 people who visit it seems a little.... how do I say it nicely.... stalker-ish?

I mean the more attention you give them, the happier they are....

But I suppose we all need "the Others"....

727 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:19:20pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

The meme about "why won't moderate muslims stand up?" it's become just transparent obvious garbage

Well, if I can take Rauf at face value, he's standing up, and he's offering something to improve a city traumatized by terror in the name of his faith.

The kindest response I'm hearing from most folks is, "He's doing it wrong!"

728 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:20:29pm

re: #726 Buck

But I suppose we all need "the Others"...

I could have gone all my life without seeing that over-hyped, hyper-atmospheric costume ghost movie.

729 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:21:22pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

I could have gone all my life without seeing that over-hyped, hyper-atmospheric costume ghost movie.

I don't know the reference you mean. I was referring to televisions "Lost".

730 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:21:27pm

re: #725 Dark_Falcon

I am more likely to lend a more sympathetic ear to theories that lend more credence to my theories.

Of course, it's stupid, but, it's damn easy.
/

731 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:21:37pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

I could have gone all my life without seeing that over-hyped, hyper-atmospheric costume ghost movie.

I liked it....
But it does not much to scare me.

732 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:21:54pm

re: #729 Buck

I don't know the reference you mean. I was referring to televisions "Lost".

I was referring to the Nicole Kidman flick.

733 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:21:55pm

re: #452 Aceofwhat?

It is possible to reject both messages as unworthy of serious political consideration and still permit both groups to pursue building permits and zoning allowances without leaking neurons in response. Or, at least, it's possible for me. We're still not sure about you...

Repeated for general awesomeness.

734 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:22:36pm

re: #730 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am more likely to lend a more sympathetic ear to theories that lend more credence to my theories.

Of course, it's stupid, but, it's damn easy.
/

I have a much easier way

If Sofia is for it, so am I !

735 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:22:38pm

re: #727 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, if I can take Rauf at face value, he's standing up, and he's offering something to improve a city traumatized by terror in the name of his faith.

The kindest response I'm hearing from most folks is, "He's doing it wrong!"

yeah! But you know how it is, the question itself implies that nobody's doing it, and then you keep showing these people examples of moderate muslims speaking up, and they don't count. They never count!

736 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:22:48pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

I could have gone all my life without seeing that over-hyped, hyper-atmospheric costume ghost movie.

I loved that house, though. I love huge, ancient, creepy houses.

737 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:04pm

re: #732 Guanxi88

I was referring to the Nicole Kidman flick.

Sorry, never saw it.

738 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:05pm

re: #473 Aceofwhat?

I was about to say 'questionable facial hair choices'//

You can't say that in one word.

739 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:27pm

re: #733 SanFranciscoZionist

Repeated for general awesomeness.

aw, shucks...

740 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:48pm

re: #738 SanFranciscoZionist

You can't say that in one word.

I'm sure any native German speaker could easily craft a single word to describe that. German is fun that way.

741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:51pm

re: #734 sattv4u2

Showed a DVR'd copy of Modern Family to my son last night.

He'd never seen her.

He was, shall we say, impressed.

742 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:23:56pm

re: #737 Buck

Sorry, never saw it.

Puts you one up on me.

743 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:24:09pm

re: #477 Fozzie Bear

That seems to be a fairly universal religious thing. The bigger the beard, the closer to God, I guess.

You know how the Na'vi can plug into stuff with their ponytails? Similarly, a pious Jew can log into the World To Come with his payess.

744 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:24:15pm

re: #739 Aceofwhat?

aw, shucks...

quick

someone widen the door frames so we can get Ace's head through!

745 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:24:38pm

re: #743 SanFranciscoZionist

You know how the Na'vi can plug into stuff with their ponytails? Similarly, a pious Jew can log into the World To Come with his payess.

LMFAO

746 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:24:46pm

HAAAhaha...Djokovic just destroyed his racquet...

747 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:24:51pm

re: #741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Showed a DVR'd copy of Modern Family to my son last night.

He'd never seen her.

He was, shall we say, impressed.

Well ,, tell him he can't have her

She's ALL MINE ,,,, BBWWAAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

748 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:25:30pm

re: #744 sattv4u2

quick

someone widen the door frames so we can get Ace's head through!

waste of time...just knock down the wall//

749 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:25:39pm

BTW, I just noticed that Zombieland (with Woodie Harralson) is on the Netflix instant watch thingee.

750 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:26:17pm

re: #502 Fozzie Bear

I always thought there was some kind of stylistic convergence between the Amish and orthodox Jews.

Clotheswise, for the men, yes. In most other ways, they haven't got much in common except piety.

751 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:26:23pm

re: #696 SanFranciscoZionist

Here's the problem. People do not seem to be able to understand that Sharia is a binding legal system upon Muslims, but the vast majority of American Muslims do not favor (or give any thought to) imposing it as the legal system of the United States. It's not even the legal system in most Muslim nations.

I can buy a book on the laws of marriage for Jewish women, but that doesn't mean I expect Congress to enforce mikvah and head covering.

One of the problems I have is the interpretation of Islam through non-Muslims. This happens to Jews all the time. Anti-Semites love telling the world what Jews really say in the "Talmud" or the "Mishnah". I put those words in quotes because I've been to Jew hating sites and see how they use Jewish terminology to make their cases against us. They'll refer to "Talumdic authority". They say things like, Jews are commanded by God to kill non-Jews. And of course, we use Christian baby blood for matzoh and that's in our texts. It's not simply misinterpretation. It's just lies.

So when people like Geller or Spencer or anyone with an agenda interprets Islam for me, I'm highly skeptical.

752 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:26:27pm

re: #735 WindUpBird

yeah! But you know how it is, the question itself implies that nobody's doing it, and then you keep showing these people examples of moderate muslims speaking up, and they don't count. They never count!

"He didn't lie down. They never lie down!"
--River, in Serenity

753 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:26:55pm

re: #743 SanFranciscoZionist

You know how the Na'vi can plug into stuff with their ponytails? Similarly, a pious Jew can log into the World To Come with his payess.

lol You're a riot!

And stop giving away our secrets!

754 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:27:03pm

re: #727 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, if I can take Rauf at face value, he's standing up, and he's offering something to improve a city traumatized by terror in the name of his faith.

The kindest response I'm hearing from most folks is, "He's doing it wrong!"

To be fair, Rauf has said some less than wonderful things. He is not what I would call a saint. He is also a former Bush White house go to person, and what I think of him personally, is of no import whatsoever, because the only thing that matters is that a free society upholds and defends its virtues.

755 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:27:06pm

re: #522 WindUpBird

there's an actual wrestler named Kamala :D

Oh. I kept thinking of Kamala Harris, but I don't think this Kamala can be her.

756 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:27:25pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

...outside the personal lives of people who have accepted it as a part of their faith.

So you don't think the Sagehen/SFZ 2012 ticket should run on a platform of God Hates Shrimp?

757 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:27:40pm

re: #736 Aceofwhat?

I loved that house, though. I love huge, ancient, creepy houses.

I had a semester of college at this place in Grantham, England. Harlaxton Manor[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

It is used a set location for lots of film and TV shows, also.

758 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:27:57pm

re: #749 webevintage

BTW, I just noticed that Zombieland (with Woodie Harralson) is on the Netflix instant watch thingee.

It's worth seeing. I saw it on Starz, and it was a fun movie.

759 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:28:18pm

re: #719 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey thank you! I am indeed quite lassoed!

I haven't seen you! Congrats, my friend! What a lucky gal to snare you :>

760 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:28:20pm

re: #565 CuriousLurker

You WILL eat my sharia pineapple pizza, infidel! If not...
*scowls menacingly, reaches for scimitar*

Every time you mention scimitars, I imagine the drawings of Aravis from The Horse and His Boy.

761 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:28:28pm

re: #757 prairiefire

I had a semester of college at this place in Grantham, England. Harlaxton Manor[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

It is used a set location for lots of film and TV shows, also.

yep. i'm instantly jealous!

762 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:28:56pm

re: #723 CuriousLurker

Oh yeah, I read that in an older thread today. Mazel tov, LVQ!

Thank you so much.

She has been thinking along similar lines. She was dropping hints earlier about me "seeing about a ring."

763 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:28:59pm

re: #750 SanFranciscoZionist

Clotheswise, for the men, yes. In most other ways, they haven't got much in common except piety.

Yeah, definitely. It's the hats, beards, and dark modest clothing that makes them superficially similar in fashion choices.

When I was a kid, my dad took us to NYC to see the sights. At some point, we saw an orthodox Jewish family walking down the street, and I, being a PA native, asked my parents how the Amish survived in a place like NYC without using any modern technology. I think my dad laughed so hard he was crying.

764 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:29:42pm

re: #762 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much.

She has been thinking along similar lines. She was dropping hints earlier about me "seeing about a ring."


And you called Verizon asking for a new tone app~!

//

seriously , congrats

765 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:30:22pm

re: #711 Aceofwhat?

It's not a rule. It explains my derision. The only rules you need to obey are Charles'. You asked for an explanation of my sarcasm and you received it. Do as you wish, spade.

Well, that you for sharing. Derision and sarcasm. In so few words....

766 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:30:24pm

re: #756 sagehen

So you don't think the Sagehen/SFZ 2012 ticket should run on a platform of God Hates Shrimp?

HEY now. I'm SFZ's vp candidate, thankyouverymuch. Centrist democrat woman jew + centrist republican dude christian. We're like McCain/Lieberman without the jowls//

767 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:31:28pm

re: #766 Aceofwhat?

HEY now. I'm SFZ's vp candidate, thankyouverymuch. Centrist democrat woman jew + centrist republican dude christian. We're like McCain/Lieberman without the jowls//


but those were their most endearing qualities!!

//

768 Guanxi88  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:31:35pm

re: #762 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much.

She has been thinking along similar lines. She was dropping hints earlier about me "seeing about a ring."

Ooh! I saw the japanese version of that flick! Creepy stuff, but nothing like Audition.

769 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:32:11pm

re: #765 Buck

Well, that you for sharing. Derision and sarcasm. In so few words...

Anytime. I'm the sort of dude who will come right out and tell you why you failed. But don't worry...that's not, like, a "rule" or anything...

770 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:32:32pm

re: #628 JasonA

I just had a customer, a male customer, named Ariel. I had fun with him :)

Why?

771 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:33:18pm

re: #634 CuriousLurker

I love the food too. I can cook several Iranian dishes really well, so I eat the food on a pretty regular basis. And I always cook my white rice Persian style. :)

Mmmm.

772 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:33:39pm

Federer rules. That is all.

773 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:34:15pm

I wanted the first name of Asher for my boy. I believe it is Hebrew for "happy". It was my husband's turn to pick, however.

774 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:34:55pm

re: #641 Stanley Sea

So you think she got fitna from dubious sources? I had never heard of it before.

Let's just say that the sources I have heard the word from are not exactly unbiased, and I don't think Sarah's studying Arabic with a local teacher to better understand the issues of the world.

775 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:35:18pm

re: #712 JasonA

IT WAS HIS SLED!!!

DARTH VADER IS HIS FATHER!

776 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:35:19pm

re: #642 JasonA

I thought it was kind of implied that I meant for the rest of us. :)

Maybe, but people don't draw the distinction much. And there is a BIG difference.

777 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:35:48pm

And he just figured out who Kaizer Soze was....I love this scene...

778 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:36:24pm

re: #652 CuriousLurker

I'm gonna name my next cat Sharia just so I can do that.

Then you can tell people that you call for Sharia all the time...

779 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:02pm

re: #759 marjoriemoon

I haven't seen you! Congrats, my friend! What a lucky gal to snare you :>

Thank you so much Marjoree. It is my sincere prayer that I always make a good husband for her. It is not that I doubt my worth or that I wouldn't always try me best for her.

It is though, that I realize how special she is.

I composed a prayer for it:

Hashem, when I marry her, please see to it, that I hear the unspoken things, read the little things, and have the wisdom to act appropriately. Help me to always think of how she might see anything even as I consider how I see it, and before I say anything. May I never fail her in my love or my commitment. Please, bless us with understanding of each other and prosperity. In 50 years growth, may she be even more lovely in my eyes than she is today.

I've resolved to say that prayer everyday until we get married.

780 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:07pm

re: #664 brookly red

no that is the candidate for governor... the actual governor has a pretty good stance...

Ah, thanks, my error.

781 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:14pm

re: #764 sattv4u2

And you called Verizon asking for a new tone app~!

//

seriously , congrats

Thanks man.

782 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:17pm

re: #750 SanFranciscoZionist

Clotheswise, for the men, yes. In most other ways, they haven't got much in common except piety.

I can't count how many times I've been on the street or a train in NYC or Jersey standing next to a Jewish guy with long beard & black hat and seen someone behaving badly—we look at each other, pull a face, and shake out heads. Heh.

783 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:18pm

re: #773 prairiefire

I wanted the first name of Asher for my boy. I believe it is Hebrew for "happy". It was my husband's turn to pick, however.

I wanted to name my son EXIT

I figured if he grew up to be an actor his name would always be in every theater in the country!!!

784 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:37:32pm

re: #775 sagehen

DARTH VADER IS HIS FATHER!

SHE'S A MAN!

785 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:38:16pm

re: #681 prairiefire

SFZ will get to my Hilary comment here in a bit.

I've got "Hot Tub Time Machine" to watch tonight, unrated version.

Yeah, I'm doing my slow progress thing. Heck, it's Shabbos. I'm allowed.

And I go back to work on Monday.

786 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:39:07pm

re: #695 Stanley Sea

I'm really behind in movies, so it's Julie & Julia tonight for me.

I liked that, more than I thought I would. Meryl Streep is amazing, and Julia Child is just such a fetching character.

787 webevintage  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:39:08pm

re: #784 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

SHE'S A MAN!

TO SERVE MAN...IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!

788 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:40:19pm

Evening Lizards! Just got home to Indiana after an almost 800 mile drive...
House is hot after 3 weeks of no A/C.. But the Bud light is ice cold

789 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:40:20pm

re: #701 Floral Giraffe

Hello, you!

Hey hon! How are you!

790 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:41:44pm

re: #786 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked that, more than I thought I would. Meryl Streep is amazing, and Julia Child is just such a fetching character.

I'm making scampi to accompany it! Got to have something good to nosh while watching cooking.

791 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:42:07pm

re: #786 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked that, more than I thought I would. Meryl Streep is amazing, and Julia Child is just such a fetching character.

Ms child was a staunch Democrat.

792 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:42:11pm

re: #788 HoosierHoops

Evening Lizards! Just got home to Indiana after an almost 800 mile drive...
House is hot after 3 weeks of no A/C.. But the Bud light is ice cold

Got your pup yet? That's what I want to hear all about.

793 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:42:42pm

re: #788 HoosierHoops

Evening Lizards! Just got home to Indiana after an almost 800 mile drive...
House is hot after 3 weeks of no A/C.. But the Bud light is ice cold

Dude! You missed a great Federer-Djokovic match. Did you pick up Winston yet, or is that tomorrow?

794 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:43:01pm

re: #788 HoosierHoops

Evening Lizards! Just got home to Indiana after an almost 800 mile drive...
House is hot after 3 weeks of no A/C.. But the Bud light is ice cold

Glad to hear you got home safe Hoops.

How about a little Stevie Ray to go with the beer...

Youtube Video
795 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:44:08pm

re: #769 Aceofwhat?

Anytime. I'm the sort of dude who will come right out and tell you why you failed. But don't worry...that's not, like, a "rule" or anything...

You might think that is what you were doing. However as I was not actually failing.... you were really just trying to call me out. Attacking me, accusing me of something I clearly was not guilty of.

I know what sort of dude you are.

796 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:44:08pm

re: #786 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked that, more than I thought I would. Meryl Streep is amazing, and Julia Child is just such a fetching character.

Youtube Video
797 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:44:35pm

re: #788 HoosierHoops

Evening Lizards! Just got home to Indiana after an almost 800 mile drive...
House is hot after 3 weeks of no A/C.. But the Bud light is ice cold

Indiana wants me
Lord, I can't go back there
Indiana wants me
Lord, I can't go back there
I wish I had you to talk to

Welcome "home"!

798 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:44:46pm

re: #787 webevintage

TO SERVE MAN...IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!

THE DETECTIVE'S BEEN DEAD THE WHOLE TIME!

799 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:45:04pm

re: #723 CuriousLurker

Oh yeah, I read that in an older thread today. Mazel tov, LVQ!

Siman tov u'mazal tov v'siman tov u'mazal tov, siman tov u'mazal tov v'siman tov u'mazal tov, siman tov u'mazal tov v'siman tov u'mazal tov, y'hey lanu. Y'hey lanu, y'hey lanu, u'l'khol Yis'ra'iel, y'hey lanu, y'hey lanu, u'l'khol Yis'ra'el, y'hey lanu, y'hey lanu, u'l'khol Yis'ra'iel, y'hey lanu, y'hey lanu, u'l'khol Yis'ra'el.

You have to imagine me singing off key, but with great joy.

800 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:45:34pm

re: #795 Buck

You might think that is what you were doing. However as I was not actually failing... you were really just trying to call me out. Attacking me, accusing me of something I clearly was not guilty of.

I know what sort of dude you are.

you have all of the virtues i dislike and none of the vices i admire.

801 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:45:53pm

re: #792 Stanley Sea

Got your pup yet? That's what I want to hear all about.

In the morning....Want to hear something funny? So this Morning I'm driving through the Ozarks trying to find something on the radio.. And I came across some pop song wing a girl singing..Pretty catchy tune..So I turn it up and I am bopping around in the car having a good time keeping up my energy...
When the song was over the DJ said it was Lady Gaga.. I screamed in horror!

802 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:46:32pm

re: #801 HoosierHoops

In the morning...Want to hear something funny? So this Morning I'm driving through the Ozarks trying to find something on the radio.. And I came across some pop song wing a girl singing..Pretty catchy tune..So I turn it up and I am bopping around in the car having a good time keeping up my energy...
When the song was over the DJ said it was Lady Gaga.. I screamed in horror!

LOL

803 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:47:11pm

re: #740 Fozzie Bear

I'm sure any native German speaker could easily craft a single word to describe that. German is fun that way.

The basic principle of German, as a language, seems to be, 'if possible, fit it into one word. If that's not practical, at least fit it into one sentence.'

804 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:48:49pm

re: #751 marjoriemoon

One of the problems I have is the interpretation of Islam through non-Muslims. This happens to Jews all the time. Anti-Semites love telling the world what Jews really say in the "Talmud" or the "Mishnah". I put those words in quotes because I've been to Jew hating sites and see how they use Jewish terminology to make their cases against us. They'll refer to "Talumdic authority". They say things like, Jews are commanded by God to kill non-Jews. And of course, we use Christian baby blood for matzoh and that's in our texts. It's not simply misinterpretation. It's just lies.

So when people like Geller or Spencer or anyone with an agenda interprets Islam for me, I'm highly skeptical.

Yes. This. And the pattern is so familiar to me from watching anti-Semites all these years...

805 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:50:01pm

re: #789 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey hon! How are you!

Excellent. Very happy for you!

806 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:50:01pm

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

To be fair, Rauf has said some less than wonderful things. He is not what I would call a saint. He is also a former Bush White house go to person, and what I think of him personally, is of no import whatsoever, because the only thing that matters is that a free society upholds and defends its virtues.

A saint he's not. But all these folks rushing in here and vibrating all over the place aren't upset because he's not a saint.

807 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:50:53pm

re: #756 sagehen

So you don't think the Sagehen/SFZ 2012 ticket should run on a platform of God Hates Shrimp?

I think we would lose the Gulf states right there, and they're already pretty sore about the whole oil spill thing.

808 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:51:16pm

re: #806 SanFranciscoZionist

A saint he's not. But all these folks rushing in here and vibrating all over the place aren't upset because he's not a saint.

Remember that jerk last night Charles deleted from class of 2004? It was about 2am my time..

809 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:51:22pm

re: #641 Stanley Sea

So you think she got fitna from dubious sources? I had never heard of it before.

Sea, fitna can mean different things in different contexts. It is a very strong word that denotes severe discord, upheaval, sedition, civil strife, trial & tribulation, etc. Muslims (at least the ones I know) typically use it in reference to causing fracturing amongst Muslims within a community.

Like when a friend of mine moved from NYC to a fairly small town in PA several years ago. There were a bunch of Salafi types there who were really obnoxious—i.e. they were basically making their up own rules based on a very bad mixture of a lack of understanding of Arabic (i.e. they were misinterpreting the Qur'an), general ignorance, and crappy & abusive self-righteous attitudes. They caused a LOT of fitna in that community. Hope that helps you understand a little better.

810 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:51:35pm

re: #806 SanFranciscoZionist

+1 for "vibrating"

811 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:51:57pm

re: #763 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, definitely. It's the hats, beards, and dark modest clothing that makes them superficially similar in fashion choices.

When I was a kid, my dad took us to NYC to see the sights. At some point, we saw an orthodox Jewish family walking down the street, and I, being a PA native, asked my parents how the Amish survived in a place like NYC without using any modern technology. I think my dad laughed so hard he was crying.

I love that! And yes, I think being Amish in NYC might be...challenging.

812 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:52:30pm

re: #779 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much Marjoree. It is my sincere prayer that I always make a good husband for her. It is not that I doubt my worth or that I wouldn't always try me best for her.

It is though, that I realize how special she is.

I composed a prayer for it:

Hashem, when I marry her, please see to it, that I hear the unspoken things, read the little things, and have the wisdom to act appropriately. Help me to always think of how she might see anything even as I consider how I see it, and before I say anything. May I never fail her in my love or my commitment. Please, bless us with understanding of each other and prosperity. In 50 years growth, may she be even more lovely in my eyes than she is today.

I've resolved to say that prayer everyday until we get married.

You so sweet :) Lucky lady, indeed.

The only advice I can give is not to sweat the small stuff.

And will she become a lizard?

813 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:53:31pm

re: #457 Cato the Elder

Both of them bother me. Both are equally protected under the First Amendment.

It's hard for me to fathom how much mental obtuseness it requires not to get that.

Oh my bad, I thought opposing Sharia made one a "bigot."

814 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:54:18pm

re: #461 CuriousLurker

So you're knowledgeable enough about Islam to make sweeping statements, huh?

This should be easy for you then: Identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam. It shouldn't take you more than a few seconds as it can be summed up in one word.

You mean the definition? Submission. Not peace, as many apologists would have you believe.

815 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:54:32pm

re: #773 prairiefire

I wanted the first name of Asher for my boy. I believe it is Hebrew for "happy". It was my husband's turn to pick, however.

I like that. My husband and I know what we would call a girl, but boy names are still very much up in the air. Everyone in the family acts as though we are assured a daughter for our first, but, uh, just in case...

816 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:54:36pm

re: #813 kamala

Oh my bad, I thought opposing Sharia made one a "bigot."

No. Assuming anyone who is Muslim is endorsing replacing our system of laws here in the states is bigoted.

817 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:54:44pm

re: #812 marjoriemoon

You so sweet :) Lucky lady, indeed.

The only advice I can give is not to sweat the small stuff.

And will she become a lizard?

And thank you!

She might become a lizard, I don't know. I haven't broached it to her. I'm sure whe would say hello to all of you if I asked her to.

818 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:55:11pm

re: #813 kamala

Oh my bad, I thought opposing Sharia made one a "bigot."

Right on Queue...Class of 2004

819 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:55:19pm

re: #800 Aceofwhat?

you have all of the virtues i dislike and none of the vices i admire.

You are confused if you think you can pretend you know me. You don't.

You don't know my virtues, or my vices.

We post on the same website.

820 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:56:18pm

re: #813 kamala

Oh my bad, I thought opposing Sharia made one a "bigot."

that sounds exactly like the sort of thought i'd expect from you...as shallow as a bird bath in the mojave...

821 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:56:49pm

re: #791 prairiefire

Ms child was a staunch Democrat.

That actually comes up a little in the movie.

I'll say no more.

822 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:57:01pm

re: #590 recusancy

Well as long as there's people pushing back against your rampant pedophilia. What's that? You say that's untrue. Well I'm pushing back against it anyways. It's the right thing to do.

Huh? You talking about Muhammad -- that model of humanity Abdul Rauf says all Muslims strive to emulate -- having sex with a nine year old girl?

823 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:57:46pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Where?

Anywhere?

824 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:57:58pm

re: #820 Aceofwhat?

that sounds exactly like the sort of thought i'd expect from you...as shallow as a bird bath in the mojave...

What does Dennis Miller say? He is more out of the loop than a blind Chicago Cabbie

825 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:58:17pm

re: #819 Buck

You are confused if you think you can pretend you know me. You don't.

You don't know my virtues, or my vices.

We post on the same website.

shhh. it's a quote, and one that i expected you to miss. we can stop this now. it's not going anywhere. if you need the last word, you may have it.

826 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 6:58:28pm

re: #822 kamala

Huh? You talking about Muhammad -- that model of humanity Abdul Rauf says all Muslims strive to emulate -- having sex with a nine year old girl?

Ever read the old testament? I guess all Christians and Jews are horrible people too?

827 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:00:01pm

re: #822 kamala

Huh? You talking about Muhammad -- that model of humanity Abdul Rauf says all Muslims strive to emulate -- having sex with a nine year old girl?

so is that the brand of 'sensitivity' that you're pining to receive from the Cordoba House planners? i thought so.

828 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:00:08pm

re: #648 SanFranciscoZionist

Clarify. What do you think 'calling for sharia' means, besides standing on your back porch and screaming "Shariaaahhh!!"?

It means espousing the benefits of -- and working towards-- making Islamic Law the law of the land.

You know, like the official spokesperson of CAIR once said: " "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future... but I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

829 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:00:28pm

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

Got a quote or something? Repeat, what do you think 'calling for sharia' means? Is it the same as 'dialing for dollars'?

#311

830 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:01:02pm

re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not illegal. I would argue that it's immoral, and yes, un-American.

Is calling for Sharia immoral?

831 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:01:46pm

re: #828 kamala

It means espousing the benefits of -- and working towards-- making Islamic Law the law of the land.

You know, like the official spokesperson of CAIR once said: " "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future... but I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

Uhhh. Yeah. Lots of my fellow christians are trying to 'educate' the country into being christian. Agree or disagree all you want, but it's not grounds for refusing to issue a building permit.

832 Buck  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:01:46pm

re: #825 Aceofwhat?

shhh. it's a quote, and one that i expected you to miss. we can stop this now. it's not going anywhere. if you need the last word, you may have it.

No problem, you stop deriding, mocking and falsely accusing me, and I will stop responding to it.

833 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:02:14pm

re: #814 kamala

You mean the definition? Submission. Not peace, as many apologists would have you believe.

I am Muslim and I will gladly confirm that the word Islam does indeed mean submission (salam means peace). That being said, I didn't ask you for the definition of the word Islam, I asked you to identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam.

834 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:02:26pm

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

Got a quote or something? Repeat, what do you think 'calling for sharia' means? Is it the same as 'dialing for dollars'?

#311, #360

835 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:03:09pm

re: #685 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd think you'd be in favor of this project then.

Why? Abdul Rauf has NEVER argued against any of those things. Cite one example.

836 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:03:13pm

re: #804 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #751 marjoriemoon

One of the problems I have is the interpretation of Islam through non-Muslims. This happens to Jews all the time. Anti-Semites love telling the world what Jews really say in the "Talmud" or the "Mishnah". I put those words in quotes because I've been to Jew hating sites and see how they use Jewish terminology to make their cases against us. They'll refer to "Talumdic authority". They say things like, Jews are commanded by God to kill non-Jews. And of course, we use Christian baby blood for matzoh and that's in our texts. It's not simply misinterpretation. It's just lies.

So when people like Geller or Spencer or anyone with an agenda interprets Islam for me, I'm highly skeptical.

Many of those sites, simply make things up that never existed. It isn't even a matter of simply cherry picking or distorting. It is a matter of an out and out lie. The only good thing about it is when they do it, they frequently refer to pages or tracates of Talmud that do not exist. Like you will see a reference fo Bava Metzia p 784 B. Wanna guess how many pages the tractate has? Hint they are off by over 500.

837 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:03:25pm

re: #828 kamala

It means espousing the benefits of -- and working towards-- making Islamic Law the law of the land.

You know, like the official spokesperson of CAIR once said: " "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future... but I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

Do you believe that there is a chance, even a remote one, that Sharia will be made into the law of the land in the U.S.? Do you understand that it takes large majorities to make that kind of changes in our system of government. The constitution would have to amended, for starters. Do you know how hard it is to amend the constitution? Do you think this is a realistic concern?

838 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:03:41pm

re: #805 Floral Giraffe

Excellent. Very happy for you!

Thank you so much Floral. You are very dear to me.

839 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:03:49pm

re: #833 CuriousLurker

I am Muslim and I will gladly confirm that the word Islam does indeed mean submission (salam means peace). That being said, I didn't ask you for the definition of the word Islam, I asked you to identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam.

well, here goes another 90 minutes on conservapedia;)

840 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:04:18pm

re: #835 kamala

Why? Abdul Rauf has NEVER argued against any of those things. Cite one example.

what does that have to do with the building permit?

841 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:04:51pm

re: #833 CuriousLurker

I am Muslim and I will gladly confirm that the word Islam does indeed mean submission (salam means peace). That being said, I didn't ask you for the definition of the word Islam, I asked you to identify the overarching concept that is the foundation of Islam.

This interests me very much. Please educate me.

842 erraticsphinx  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:05:23pm

re: #839 Aceofwhat?

I've heard Conservapedia's anthropology section is very well researched.

843 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:05:30pm

re: #815 SanFranciscoZionist

I like that. My husband and I know what we would call a girl, but boy names are still very much up in the air. Everyone in the family acts as though we are assured a daughter for our first, but, uh, just in case...

Keep it in mind! Asher is a "hot guy's name." Also, Ash sounds good.

844 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:05:43pm

re: #841 LudwigVanQuixote

This interests me very much. Please educate me.

wait. Kamala is the supposed expert. we're waiting for their definition...

845 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:06:06pm

re: #708 b_sharp


I read the blurb you posted and saw a man trying to be true to his religion and promoting peace. I did not see a man promoting the institutionalizing of sharia in the US.

Calling for Sharia is "promoting peace"? Goodness.

846 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:07:37pm

re: #845 kamala

Calling for Sharia is "promoting peace"? Goodness.

You're pretty convinced of your own grip on what sharia means.

847 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:07:39pm

re: #713 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course he doesn't. He's a freaking Imam! Would you expect a rabbi to 'call for rejection of any elements of halacha'? No. But the way he interprets the tradition is essential.

So he calls for Sharia, and doesn't reject any elements of Sharia, and doesn't offer any alternative interpretations of the worst elements of Sharia, but that's all good to you? Help us all...

848 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:07:44pm

re: #843 prairiefire

Keep it in mind! Asher is a "hot guy's name." Also, Ash sounds good.

The name's Ash. Housewares.

849 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:08:18pm

re: #841 LudwigVanQuixote

This interests me very much. Please educate me.

I don't want to give it away, but we talked about it in the pages when discussing a certain famous Jewish thinker the other day. (Shhhh! Please don't mention anything else.)

850 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:08:21pm

re: #847 kamala

So he calls for Sharia, and doesn't reject any elements of Sharia, and doesn't offer any alternative interpretations of the worst elements of Sharia, but that's all good to you? Help us all...

what does that have to do with the building permit?

851 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:09:03pm

re: #849 CuriousLurker

I don't want to give it away, but we talked about it in the pages when discussing a certain famous Jewish thinker the other day. (Shhh! Please don't mention anything else.)

*kamala scrabbles furiously through dead threads*

852 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:09:21pm

re: #845 kamala

Calling for Sharia is "promoting peace"? Goodness.

Ummm who is calling for Sharia? You've lost me. I am very aware of all sorts of unpleasant folks in the ME who want to make the whole world into a Caliphate, but who in mainstream America is calling for Sharia as national law.

A more important question is, even if there are some Imams who do so, how is that different from Christians who want to impose their form of Christianity on America by banning certain books, removing evolution form classrooms, removing abortion rights etc...

853 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:09:31pm

re: #847 kamala

So he calls for Sharia, and doesn't reject any elements of Sharia, and doesn't offer any alternative interpretations of the worst elements of Sharia, but that's all good to you? Help us all...

Even if he did that, there is still no legal grounds to stop him from building there. Do you not get that there are larger (secular) principles at stake than your paranoia?

854 jaunte  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:10:03pm

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
QFT

855 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:10:05pm

re: #845 kamala

Calling for Sharia is "promoting peace"? Goodness.

You damn well know America will never be ruled by Sharia...Stupid fuck..
Why don't you just stop it now...

856 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:10:29pm

re: #849 CuriousLurker

I don't want to give it away, but we talked about it in the pages when discussing a certain famous Jewish thinker the other day. (Shhh! Please don't mention anything else.)

I missed that discussion I think... pity. But I can guess who the thinker was. When you are done with the troll, I would love to talk.

857 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #826 Fozzie Bear

Ever read the old testament? I guess all Christians and Jews are horrible people too?

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

858 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:11:53pm

re: #856 LudwigVanQuixote

I missed that discussion I think... pity. But I can guess who the thinker was. When you are done with the troll, I would love to talk.

You and I were talking about it. You were describing the thinker to me.

859 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:11:58pm

re: #857 kamala

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

what does that have to do with a building permit?

bueller...bueller...bueller

860 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:12:07pm

re: #857 kamala

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

I see. So you've never read the bible. There is some shit in there that would blow your mind. Millions of Americans consider it to be the literal word of God, divinely inspired. Are you concerned about that?

861 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:12:13pm

re: #857 kamala

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

Yea didn't Pope Gregory have sex with a 12 yr in the church in the 13th Century?

862 erraticsphinx  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:12:14pm

re: #857 kamala

Man, if I had a nickel for the "Aisha!" strawman/canard/deflection , I'd be a rich man.

863 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:12:27pm

re: #857 kamala

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

Yeah, because the Catholic Church has always painted Jesus as a flawed, yet inspirational Jewish rabbi.

///

864 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:13:06pm

re: #831 Aceofwhat?

Uhhh. Yeah. Lots of my fellow christians are trying to 'educate' the country into being christian. Agree or disagree all you want, but it's not grounds for refusing to issue a building permit.

I'm not calling for that.re: #846 SanFranciscoZionist

You're pretty convinced of your own grip on what sharia means.

Huh? No, I go by what the most authoritative Muslims say Sharia means. Look up "Reliance of the Traveller." It's a manual of Islamic Law (Sharia). It's been approved by Al-Azhar. It's been praised by at least one Muslim professor in the USA.

865 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:13:25pm

re: #840 Aceofwhat?

what does that have to do with the building permit?

Nothing.

866 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:13:44pm

re: #860 Fozzie Bear

I see. So you've never read the bible. There is some shit in there that would blow your mind. Millions of Americans consider it to be the literal word of God, divinely inspired. Are you concerned about that?

There is a lot of stuff in translation which is much much more mindblowing than the original Hebrew in the context of the Oral Law. Just as he hasn't really read the bible, you haven't studied what it actually says in context and not in translation.

867 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:14:03pm

re: #858 CuriousLurker

You and I were talking about it. You were describing the thinker to me.

Ohhh yes.

868 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:15:02pm

*tap, tap, tap...* kamala, I'm still waiting.

869 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:15:22pm

re: #866 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a lot of stuff in translation which is much much more mindblowing than the original Hebrew in the context of the Oral Law. Just as he hasn't really read the bible, you haven't studied what it actually says in context and not in translation.

Not that any of that matters, as it was all written down by humans, which are not perfect. I'm just wondering what the basis of this guy's obvious double standard is.

870 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:15:30pm

re: #865 kamala

Nothing.

Oh. Well, that's what this thread is about. Of course, we often go off-topic...but now i have no idea what your point is, if it's not related to the issuance of a building permit to the Cordoba folks.

Would you be a lamb and sum up your point in a sentence or three? Remember...pithy is a virtue...

871 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:17:04pm

re: #868 CuriousLurker

*tap, tap, tap...* kamala, I'm still waiting.

With respect, you are not going to get a reasonable response, if any.

I would imagine that you are the first person to identify yourself as a Muslim that he has ever "spoken to."

872 erraticsphinx  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:18:36pm

re: #864 kamala

Been approved by Al-Azhar?

And by....ONE Muslim professor?

Yeah, might as well stock up on the tabbouleh, hookahs, and hijabs, guys.

873 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:19:30pm

There are churches just south of me that believe the only way your faith will get you to heaven is to handle poisonous snakes in church..They want to convert America..they call on it...I'm terrified some day America will go all fundie on us..
////

874 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:20:46pm

re: #871 LudwigVanQuixote

With respect, you are not going to get a reasonable response, if any.

I would imagine that you are the first person to identify yourself as a Muslim that he has ever "spoken to."

I'm not expecting a reasonable response. I just want to drive home a point about ignorance when judging other people's religions. I mean I'm not going to approach you, or SFZ, or Marjorie or whoever and tell you what Judaism says, and then when you correct me tell you you're wrong.

875 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:21:02pm

re: #873 HoosierHoops

SEEERIOUSLY. no one does crazy quite like snake-handlers...and i mean no one!

876 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:23:16pm

re: #874 CuriousLurker

I'm not expecting a reasonable response. I just want to drive home a point about ignorance when judging other people's religions. I mean I'm not going to approach you, or SFZ, or Marjorie or whoever and tell you what Judaism says, and then when you correct me tell you you're wrong.

Well that is because you are a decent and reasonable person. The idea of showing respect is sadly lacking in this culture. In some sense, it is this basic classlessness that gets under my skin the most with the arrogant pinheads of the far right.

877 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:25:42pm

re: #864 kamala

I'm not calling for that.re: #846 SanFranciscoZionist

Huh? No, I go by what the most authoritative Muslims say Sharia means. Look up "Reliance of the Traveller." It's a manual of Islamic Law (Sharia). It's been approved by Al-Azhar. It's been praised by at least one Muslim professor in the USA.

Is it available in translation?

878 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:29:11pm

re: #876 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that is because you are a decent and reasonable person. The idea of showing respect is sadly lacking in this culture. In some sense, it is this basic classlessness that gets under my skin the most with the arrogant pinheads of the far right.

That's true, and it's not just ignorance about religion. I also wouldn't argue medicine with a doctor, or AGW with a scientist, or any number of other things I'm not qualified to expound upon. It would be absurd and the height of arrogant stupidity.

879 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:31:12pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

O Cato let you be wrong, God let you.

I shudder.

880 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:32:01pm

re: #879 Ojoe

O Cato let you be wrong, God let you.

I shudder.

What else does "second amendment remedies" mean? Brace yourself. It's only getting uglier.

881 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:33:52pm

LVQ, I'm making my nic blue. If you want to contact me I'll be glad to explain things further re the concept form an Islamic point of view, but I don't want to do it here as I'd rather save the question & answer for future trolls. ;)

882 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:35:05pm

Man, this troll does not have much staying power. We don't seem to be attracting the same caliber as we used to.

883 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:35:12pm

re: #880 Fozzie Bear

Who says that ! ? !

884 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:35:29pm

Okay, Lizards, since kamala clearly isn't going to answer my question, I'm going to go take a quick peek upstairs and then get back to working on the PHP script I was fiddling with earlier.

885 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:35:51pm

re: #884 CuriousLurker

miss me;)

886 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:36:39pm

re: #770 SanFranciscoZionist

Why?

If you're a guy, and you have the same name as the Little Mermaid... believe me, I couldn't say anything to the man that he hasn't heard before.

887 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:37:06pm

re: #885 Aceofwhat?

miss me;)

Heh, I already do! {{{Ace}}}

888 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:37:09pm

re: #882 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Man, this troll does not have much staying power. We don't seem to be attracting the same caliber as we used to.

Lots of quantity tonight, though.

889 sagehen  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:37:25pm

re: #857 kamala

Umm, Islam explicitly calls Muhammad the perfect man, the role model for all, for all time. And he had sex with a nine-year old girl. I know it's hard to digest that without bringing up Christianity & Judaism, I know...

Actually, it's debatable whether he had sex with Aisha. Marriage as a contractual arrangement between families often took place when the bride was too young for anyone to call her a woman -- they'd live in the same household, and wait years before consummation.

BTW, Are you aware that King David (the guy we celebrate in story and song, author of the Psalms) had dozens of "wives", many of whom he "married" within a few hours of picking them up at their husbands' funerals? The text isn't always clear how consensual those "marriages" were, but I could make a guess based on how often Davy was directly, personally responsible for those husbands being in need of a funeral. His immediate predecessor (father-in-law Saul) was no better. Neither was our wisest, King Solomon.

890 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:38:20pm

re: #888 JasonA

Lots of quantity tonight, though.

And, as Comrade Lenin would say, "Quantity has a quality all of its own."

891 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:38:41pm

re: #710 Guanxi88

Perhaps he was attempting to de-radicalize the folk there?

Perhaps. More likely, I think, is that Hizb-ul-Tahrir invited him because they could then use him a talking point about how moderate they are. They are extremists who (for now) claim to renounce violence as a means of promoting their agenda.

But -- they seem to have a thing for hot rods.
[Suggest using auto-translation option in Google Chrome browser, Dutch to English]

Punishment by the Islamic State - a recent educational item, linked on their front page

Question: In the third paragraph on page 79 of the book Al-Moeqadima, introducing a part, reads:
"... And so is the fact that no one should punish those that Allah swt punished on the Day of Judgement, namely the fire. So punishment for someone burning with fire is not allowed. "
And in the middle of page 82 reads:
".... Islam, the punishment that sinners must be punished, namely: capital punishment, flogging, stoning, banishment, detention particular, fine (...) and burn with a hot rod (al-kayoe buttock to) on what body or too. With something else should not be punished. "
The question is, how is it that the punishment is prohibited by fire, but burning with a hot rod is permitted?
Answer:
[snip]

Basically, they are saying that so long as no actual combustion process occurs in proximity to the bodies, the letter of koranic law is satisfied, and application of hot rods to sinners & infidels is cool. This is from July, 2010.

892 firstinla  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:42:20pm

LVQ: I really like your prayer. A good friend who's been married almost 50 years says the wedding isn't the marriage and that marriage happens over the course of years. Perhaps you might offer your prayer even after your wedding? In any case: best wishes for a long and happy life together.

893 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:43:08pm

re: #874 CuriousLurker

I'm not expecting a reasonable response. I just want to drive home a point about ignorance when judging other people's religions. I mean I'm not going to approach you, or SFZ, or Marjorie or whoever and tell you what Judaism says, and then when you correct me tell you you're wrong.

re: #876 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that is because you are a decent and reasonable person. The idea of showing respect is sadly lacking in this culture. In some sense, it is this basic classlessness that gets under my skin the most with the arrogant pinheads of the far right.

And I for one, as a more or less agnostic Catholic, so appreciate the learning I'm receiving from calm people, who I feel in my heart are telling me the truth about your respective religions. That matters, because I'm not going to fact check your every statement. (I'm including SFZ here)

This is one of the reasons I'm enjoying LGF so much lately.

894 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:43:16pm

re: #883 Ojoe

Who says that ! ? !

[Link: www.google.com...]

Lots of wingers are throwing that little gem about lately.

895 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:43:43pm

re: #886 JasonA

If you're a guy, and you have the same name as the Little Mermaid... believe me, I couldn't say anything to the man that he hasn't heard before.

Oh. This is the problem with knowing too many Israelis. It seems like a normal masculine name to me.

Ariel Sharon, ya know?

896 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:43:57pm

re: #779 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you so much Marjoree. It is my sincere prayer that I always make a good husband for her. It is not that I doubt my worth or that I wouldn't always try me best for her.

It is though, that I realize how special she is.

I composed a prayer for it:

Hashem, when I marry her, please see to it, that I hear the unspoken things, read the little things, and have the wisdom to act appropriately. Help me to always think of how she might see anything even as I consider how I see it, and before I say anything. May I never fail her in my love or my commitment. Please, bless us with understanding of each other and prosperity. In 50 years growth, may she be even more lovely in my eyes than she is today.

I've resolved to say that prayer everyday until we get married.

Congrats LVQ.

897 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:47:40pm

re: #891 abolitionist

Oops. That "educational" bit was from April 2010, not July.

898 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:49:26pm

re: #892 firstinla

LVQ: I really like your prayer. A good friend who's been married almost 50 years says the wedding isn't the marriage and that marriage happens over the course of years. Perhaps you might offer your prayer even after your wedding? In any case: best wishes for a long and happy life together.

Thank you so much, and yes, I am sure to pray a lot.

899 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:50:12pm

re: #887 CuriousLurker

I am having a hard time using the mail at the moment. I actually never set up outlook, so I need to fix some technical difficulties.

900 b_snark  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:50:33pm

re: #845 kamala

Calling for Sharia is "promoting peace"? Goodness.

Read for comprehension.

901 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:51:21pm

re: #878 CuriousLurker

That's true, and it's not just ignorance about religion. I also wouldn't argue medicine with a doctor, or AGW with a scientist, or any number of other things I'm not qualified to expound upon. It would be absurd and the height of arrogant stupidity.

People who are interested in learning think that way. You will never see me lecture Cato on Latin for instance :)

902 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:51:39pm

re: #896 b_sharp

Congrats LVQ.

Thank you.

903 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:53:08pm

re: #899 LudwigVanQuixote

I am having a hard time using the mail at the moment. I actually never set up outlook, so I need to fix some technical difficulties.

NP, whenever you get it fixed just let me know and we'll talk. That is assuming I don't end up having to give away the answer before then. ;o)

904 Stanghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:54:25pm

re: #899 LudwigVanQuixote

I am having a hard time using the mail at the moment. I actually never set up outlook, so I need to fix some technical difficulties.

LVQ - just cut the email address & post it into your gmail or whatever. No need to use the outlook.

905 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 7:58:21pm

re: #904 Stanley Sea

LVQ - just cut the email address & post it into your gmail or whatever.

Oh, good to know that works, because I just did it :)

re: #903 CuriousLurker

NP, whenever you get it fixed just let me know and we'll talk. That is assuming I don't end up having to give away the answer before then. ;o)

I'm dying of curiosity myself now and can no longer mind my own business ;) CL, I just sent you a message - hope that's okay - I really do want to know!

906 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:06:35pm

re: #905 publicityStunted

Oh, good to know that works, because I just did it :)

re: #903 CuriousLurker

I'm dying of curiosity myself now and can no longer mind my own business ;) CL, I just sent you a message - hope that's okay - I really do want to know!

Oops, just hollered out to you upstairs to make sure it was really you. I'll answer you shortly (still hungry, need more food).

907 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:11:01pm

re: #884 CuriousLurker

Okay, Lizards, since kamala clearly isn't going to answer my question, I'm going to go take a quick peek upstairs and then get back to working on the PHP script I was fiddling with earlier.

Amazing that the wacky wingnut vanishes without a trace in the presence of an actual muslim!

908 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:11:42pm

re: #899 LudwigVanQuixote

I am having a hard time using the mail at the moment. I actually never set up outlook, so I need to fix some technical difficulties.

Ludwig..If you ever need any help..Contact me..I'm a System Admin..I can do mailboxes and PST and OST files in my sleep...I hate to brag...It would be my privilege to offer you any tech support anytime..And your new future wife...
You are going to have a happy blessed future..Congrads..
But seriously..If you are a System Admin for one of the biggest Companies in the Work..You damn well better know shit about IT..
/Fuck you stalkers..I talk truth..Charles knows who I am and stuff all your childish posts...
It's like an Internet Peanut Gallery!
/Ok second beer after driving 800 miles..That bed is starting to look good
// Ludwig..I so admire you...God Bless

909 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:18:31pm

re: #853 Fozzie Bear

Even if he did that, there is still no legal grounds to stop him from building there. Do you not get that there are larger (secular) principles at stake than your paranoia?

Um, I never said there are any legal grounds to stop him. I think there are legal grounds to protest his goal of building there.

910 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:19:48pm

re: #859 Aceofwhat?

what does that have to do with a building permit?

bueller...bueller...bueller

Nothing.

911 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:20:50pm

re: #909 kamala

Um, I never said there are any legal grounds to stop him. I think there are legal grounds to protest his goal of building there.

I see. Do you know what Sufism is?

912 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:22:15pm

re: #877 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it available in translation?

You read more about Reliance of the Traveller here, where it discusses one tiny piece of Sharia (i.e., the penalty for killing one's own offspring -- take a wild guess of what it is?)

[Link: revuse.wetpaint.com...]

913 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:27:48pm

re: #889 sagehen

Actually, it's debatable whether he had sex with Aisha. Marriage as a contractual arrangement between families often took place when the bride was too young for anyone to call her a woman -- they'd live in the same household, and wait years before consummation.

BTW, Are you aware that King David (the guy we celebrate in story and song, author of the Psalms) had dozens of "wives", many of whom he "married" within a few hours of picking them up at their husbands' funerals? The text isn't always clear how consensual those "marriages" were, but I could make a guess based on how often Davy was directly, personally responsible for those husbands being in need of a funeral. His immediate predecessor (father-in-law Saul) was no better. Neither was our wisest, King Solomon.

Of course it's debatable whether Muhammad had sex with Aisha. The question is, what do the most authoritative Islamic sources say about it? Like Bukhari, who writes ""the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old." And like Al-Tabari, who quotes Aisha as having said, "my marriage was consummated when I was nine."

I don't really care what King David did. Judaism does not call out King David as the role model of the perfect human for all time, while the Qur'an does say that (33.21), and Abdul-Rauf recently affirmed that in an interview:

You see, Muslims have an ideal. Part of their ideal is to follow what they call the example of the prophet, the Sunna of the prophet. So at an individual level, a human being who wants to perfect himself or herself looks to the tradition of the prophet, his individual practice, and tries to emulate the prophet as much as possible.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

Let me know when you find a Jew saying the same thing about King David.

914 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:28:42pm

re: #911 Fozzie Bear

I see. Do you know what Sufism is?

Sure.

915 Four More Tears  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:29:37pm

I see this thread has devolved into just attacking a religion.

916 erraticsphinx  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:35:42pm

re: #913 kamala

See 872.

917 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:35:42pm

re: #503 CuriousLurker

kamaaalaaa... I can see you're still logged in. What's taking so long? You're not ignoring the question are you?

I don't know what answer you're looking for. My sources for Islam are only what I've read other Muslims say. Folks like ibn Ishaq, ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, al Bukhari, al Tabari. And living American Muslims like Jeff Lang.

But please, I love to learn. Illuminate me.

918 erraticsphinx  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:37:52pm

re: #917 kamala

Bull-friggin-shit.

I see you came back after a fairly vigorous browsing of Conservapedia/Robert Spencer's articles/whatever else, but you still came up short.

Way to show up after CL leaves, though :)

919 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:47:56pm

re: #665 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. I also support my right to call them dumbasses, very loudly.

Love it.

920 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:53:55pm

re: #871 LudwigVanQuixote

With respect, you are not going to get a reasonable response, if any.

I would imagine that you are the first person to identify yourself as a Muslim that he has ever "spoken to."

You're absolutely incorrect. Believe it or not, I correspond frequently with several American Muslims who happen to agree that there are many problems with the mainstream interpretation of Islam in America and around the world.

Why don't you read Jeff Lang's book, Even Angels Ask, to educate yourself on some of these problems. Jeff Lang is an American Muslim who speaks the truth about Islam. He's well respected in the American Muslim community. And believe me, his writing is nothing like Abdul-Rauf's. If you want a moderate Muslim to support, support him, not Abdul-Rauf.

Here's an excerpt from Lang's book, an autobiography of his conversion to Islam:

Approximately two months after I had converted to Islam, the Muslim students at the university where I was teaching began to hold lectures on Friday evenings int he mosque. The second lecture was given by Hisham, a very bright medical student who had been studying in America for almost ten years. I liked and respected Hisham very much. He was rather round and jovial and had a very kind face. He was also a passionate student of Islam.

Hisham spoke that night about a Muslim's duties and responsibilities. He talked at length about the rituals and a believer's ethical obligations. His speech was very moving and had been running about an hour when he closed it with the following unexpected and stern remark.

"Finally, we must never forget -- and this is extremely important -- that as Muslims, we are obligated to desire, and when possible to participate in, the overthrow of any non-Islamic government -- anywhere in the world -- in order to replace it by an Islamic one."

"Hisham!" I interrupted. "Are you implying that Muslim American citizens are to commit themselves to the destruction of the U.S. government? -- That they are to be a fifth column in America -- a secret revolutionary group seeking to overthrow the government? Do you mean that when an American converts to Islam he must commit himself to political treason?!"

I though that by presenting Hisham with a very extreme scenario, it would force him to soften or qualify his statement. He looked down at the floor as he pondered my question momentarily. Then he looked at me with an expression that reminded me of a doctor about to break the news to his patient that his tumor is malignant.

"Yes," he said. "Yes, that's true."

...

Many western writers, past and present, have pointed to the division in classical Islamic Law of the world in dar al harb (the abode of war) and dar al Islam (the abode of Islam or peace) as evidence of the essentially aggressive nature of Islam... This argument is not so easy to dismiss. Muslims can remind Westerners that past Churhc officials often defended aggressive and brutal government policies on religious grounds. But one can counter that those policies were not essentially Christian, since Church leaders would not endorse them today. Almost all Muslim religious leaders, however, still uphold the classical dar al Islam/dar al harb concept, which makes it appear to be fundamental to Islam.
...

But alas, I'm sure Lang is just an Islamophobic bigot too.

921 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 8:57:48pm

re: #872 erraticsphinx

Been approved by Al-Azhar?

And by...ONE Muslim professor?

Yeah, might as well stock up on the tabbouleh, hookahs, and hijabs, guys.

yes, Al-Azhar .. ever heard of it?
And the Mosque of Darwish Pasha in Syria.
And the Mufti of the Jordanian Armed Forces.
And the International Institute of Islamic Thought.

But you're right, that holds nothing over the lovely imaginary Sharia that Abdul-Rauf and CuriousLurker would have you believe exists, the one that treats women as equals to men and as non-Muslims as equals to Muslims. You'll find that version of Sharia right at the end of the rainbow.

922 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 9:03:13pm

re: #918 erraticsphinx

Bull-friggin-shit.

I see you came back after a fairly vigorous browsing of Conservapedia/Robert Spencer's articles/whatever else, but you still came up short.

Way to show up after CL leaves, though :)

Ah yes, all I ever learned about Islam I learned in the last 2 hours. Actually, you can read all my writings here:

[Link: revuse.wetpaint.com...]

923 blueraven  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 9:22:34pm

re: #847 kamala

So he calls for Sharia, and doesn't reject any elements of Sharia, and doesn't offer any alternative interpretations of the worst elements of Sharia, but that's all good to you? Help us all...

You sir/madam are a complete and utter fool.

924 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 9:47:14pm

re: #922 kamala

Ah yes, all I ever learned about Islam I learned in the last 2 hours. Actually, you can read all my writings here:

[Link: revuse.wetpaint.com...]

Hey tell me about John Kerry!

925 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 9:49:54pm

re: #924 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey tell me about John Kerry!

huh?

926 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 9:57:20pm

re: #921 kamala

yes, Al-Azhar .. ever heard of it?
And the Mosque of Darwish Pasha in Syria.
And the Mufti of the Jordanian Armed Forces.
And the International Institute of Islamic Thought.

But you're right, that holds nothing over the lovely imaginary Sharia that Abdul-Rauf and CuriousLurker would have you believe exists, the one that treats women as equals to men and as non-Muslims as equals to Muslims. You'll find that version of Sharia right at the end of the rainbow.

Keep trying there champ, eventually you'll hit the toilet

927 kamala  Sat, Aug 14, 2010 10:18:51pm

re: #926 WindUpBird

Keep trying there champ, eventually you'll hit the toilet

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

928 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Aug 15, 2010 5:32:27am

re: #927 kamala

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Son, you brought your wikipedia link to the wrong scuffle

929 ihateronpaul  Sun, Aug 15, 2010 8:10:50am

logic AND reason?

WHAT A FUCKING MONSTER!!!!11!


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