Goldblog: Imam of NY Mosque Has ‘No Love At All for Hamas’

US News • Views: 3,074

Jeffrey Goldberg, whose credentials as an opponent of Hamas are pretty unimpeachable, gives a shout-out to LGF today with a link to our post about the developers of the Cordoba House renouncing Hamas: Cordoba Mosque: Hamas is Not Us.

Little Green Footballs has been doing a lot of Cordoba-related heavy lifting in recent days, pointing out over and over again the brutish idiocy of much of the opposition to the so-called Ground Zero mosque. (“So-called” because it would not be located at, you know, Ground Zero.) And now the latest: LGF is pushing back against enemies of the Cordoba Initiative who have been linking the group to Hamas. As many Goldblog readers know, I do not run a pro-Hamas site. As many Goldblog readers also know, I am well-acquainted with the imam who is trying to build this mosque (and community center), and I know, from personal experience, that he has no love at all for Hamas, its paranoia, its violence and its anti-Semitism. So: please, before you repeat the lie that Cordoba is some sort of subsidiary of Hamas, please check with me first.

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132 comments
1 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:41:09am

The evidence that the group developing the Mosque and Community Center in lower Manhattan is somehow sticking it to America is not forthcoming. I expect to hear the chorus of crickets building to a crecendo in November.

2 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:43:47am

re: #1 DaddyG

The evidence that the group developing the Mosque and Community Center in lower Manhattan is somehow sticking it to America is not forthcoming. I expect to hear the chorus of crickets building to a crecendo in November.

I predict this “issue” will be abandoned after November. At least by the big names.

3 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:44:04am

But he’s a muslim! They all work together all the time, just like Christians and Jews!

/

4 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:44:46am

re: #2 JasonA

I predict this “issue” will be abandoned after November. At least by the big names.

After November here’s hoping some of the current “big names” become known for their little “minds”.

5 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:45:26am

Nice.

Here’s a few more things to bear in mind.

Sufism is incompatible with Salafism (often used interchangeably with Wahabism). That also means that Sufism is incompatible with al Qaeda’s vision.

The Cordoba House project is two blocks North of Ground Zero. It isn’t in Ground Zero. It is going to be a community center and mosque. It got community board approval. The same community board whose residents have had to bear all the burdens of the destruction of the WTC complex directly and personally, the removal of all the debris - through their neighborhood, and the rebuilding efforts that continue dragging on for probably the better part of the coming decade.

They are the ones who would have to live with the community center, and are the ones who saw the need and approved it accordingly. Moreover, they were the ones who rejected the notion that the building deserved landmarking - noting their objections to the LPC which itself rejected landmark status for the building.

6 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:46:04am

re: #4 DaddyG

After November here’s hoping some of the current “big names” become known for their little “minds”.

These people bask in the glow of their collective smallmindedness

7 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:46:09am

re: #4 DaddyG

After November here’s hoping some of the current “big names” become known for their little “minds”.

I can’t muster that much optimism.

8 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:46:10am

So the Imam and Pamela Geller DO have
something in common??
I’m confused…/

9 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:48:39am

A voice of reason heard through the howling wind of mass hysteria.

Now for the pushback.

Back in F

10 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:50:08am

I shared this on the last thread but its probably more appropriate here:

Now the “conservatives” and Harry Reid are taking the tack that it may be legally correct for the Mosque to be built but “is it the right thing to do”?

Since I cannot divine the developers intent by mind reading and speculation I will assume they really want to have a place to worship and meet as a community. Until someone provides evidence of nefarious motives they are just talking out of turn. [More and more - the evidence supports a peaceful Muslim community that wants a place to worship and assemble where they live and work]

A Christian response to any perceived affront would be to welcome the center and show support so that any anger or resentment on the part of those building the center would have no place to be expressed and in the long term they it would be a demonstration of Christian love that the world could see. The bonus is that America would have the moral high ground.

A great example of this for those pundits that compare this center to a Klan rally on the MLK memorial -[yes it is happening] is in 1964 when the Black Lincolnville district of St. Augusta Florida was marched through by the Klan. Instead of returning hate and anger the residents stood on their porches and started singing the Gospel hymn “I love everybody, I Iove everybody, I love everybody in my heart…”

The Klansmen did not find the fight they wanted and walked away embarassed and shamed.

So you tell me WWJD?

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:50:11am

I’m finished indulging people who spout rank bigotry about this issue, and I’ve just blocked three people: Solomon2, oriana fan, and ynahmias.

I’m so disgusted at the behavior of the anti-mosque crowd, there are no words.

12 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:51:33am

Back in Freud’s day, hysteria manifested itself, at least in women, as a semi-catatonic state. I yearn for the old days with an extension to men.

13 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:52:45am

re: #11 Charles

I’m finished indulging people who spout rank bigotry about this issue, and I’ve just blocked three people: Solomon2, oriana fan, and ynahmias.

I’m so disgusted at the behavior of the anti-mosque crowd, there are no words.

Wow!

14 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:53:05am

re: #11 Charles

Sadly it is pretty thick out there. I had the misfortune of attempting to reason with some holy warriers on the local papers blog. I gave up trying to reason.

15 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:54:07am

EXCLUSIVE: Navy Air Force Inspector General Under Investigation After Dismissing Anti-Gay Harassment Complaint

The inspector general of the Naval Air Force Atlantic Fleet is under investigation for the handling—and dismissal—of a Navy ensign’s anti-gay harassment complaint, FoxNews.com has learned.

Ensign Steve Crowston said he suffered months of continual anti-gay harassment and sexual discrimination from his fellow and commanding officers with Strike Fighter Squadron 136 at Naval Air Station, Oceana, Va.

The harassment began in August 2009, says Crowston, 36, when his fellow officers called him into a room for a review of call signs, a military moniker that easily identifies a service member. He says his name was written on a whiteboard with a list of call sign recommendations: “Cowboy,” “Gay Boy,” “Fagmeister,” “Cowgirl,” “Romo’s Bitch,” “TO,” “Terrell Owens” and “Redskins.”

Call signs can be used in official military correspondence and in radio calls, and the names often get printed onto clothing and can follow someone throughout their career.

Crowston – who would not disclose his sexual orientation – says his commanding and executive officers were in the room and participated in the group vote, picking “Romo’s Bitch.”

16 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:58:50am
17 rwdflynavy  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 9:59:06am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)Fighter guys, what do you expect? Helo guys are much more laid back. One thing the article didn’t mention is the guy was a die-hard Cowboy’s fan, thus the Romo/Redskins stuff.

18 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:00:56am

What is the deal with writing without vowels?

19 Firstinla  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:01:12am

This is a nice commendation to LGF, Charles. It also speaks well of the many men and women who contribute to the heavy-lifting done here. If I could I’d give you a gillion updings.

20 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:02:17am

re: #18 webevintage

What is the deal with writing without vowels?

Cthulu.

21 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:04:46am
22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:05:57am

re: #18 webevintage

What is the deal with writing without vowels?

They were disemvoweled.

23 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:06:23am

re: #21 webevintage

and the comments are made of suckage…

I ignore the comments.

24 deranged cat  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:06:46am

re: #18 webevintage

What is the deal with writing without vowels?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Because disemvoweling makes text legible only through significant cognitive effort, it is used by moderators on internet forums, newsgroups and blogs as a way to limit the effectiveness of unwanted postings or comments, such as internet trolling, rudeness or criticism.

25 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:07:36am

re: #21 webevintage

and the comments are made of suckage…

I really wish the MSM would realize that allowing comments on their articles isn’t necessary.

26 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:08:03am

My unsolicited $0.02 about Pres. Obama’s weekend speech about the mosque:
I did not hear it, only read a transcript and, for the life of me, honestly cannot tell any difference between this and what Dubya would say about this.
And this also goes for the answers to the follow-up question a day or two later.

(1st Ammendment still means something to me)

That being said, I must also say I have been wonderfully surprised to learn I was wrong about some LGF posters. I wrongly came to the conclusion that many here were Freedom From Religion sorts, as opposed to Freedom Of Religion sorts.
I am truly blessed to be a member of this community!

27 rwdflynavy  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:08:52am

re: #24 deranged cat

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Because disemvoweling makes text legible only through significant cognitive effort, it is used by moderators on internet forums, newsgroups and blogs as a way to limit the effectiveness of unwanted postings or comments, such as internet trolling, rudeness or criticism.

Plus disemvowel is just fun to say! Try it!

28 cliffster  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:09:30am
29 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:09:46am

re: #18 webevintage

What is the deal with writing without vowels?

It’s the magic of Charles.

30 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:10:08am

re: #22 Charles

They were disemvoweled.

OH!
Duh, you did that though the mystery of the coding and intertubes.

Heh.
I imagined these guys sitting at their commuters typing very slowly to make sure that no vowels were involved in their posts. It seemed like an awful lot of work to go though for a post that was gonna be deleted.

31 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:10:44am

re: #24 deranged cat

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Because disemvoweling makes text legible only through significant cognitive effort, it is used by moderators on internet forums, newsgroups and blogs as a way to limit the effectiveness of unwanted postings or comments, such as internet trolling, rudeness or criticism.

Thats just what the Old Ones want you to think.

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:11:31am

re: #25 JasonA

I really wish the MSM would realize that allowing comments on their articles isn’t necessary.

YES. Seriously, why diminish your reporter’s work by then allowing every schmuck in the world to add their insanity?

Letters to the editor can be selected.

33 Stanghazi  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:11:43am

re: #28 cliffster

Image: 6099.jpg

Oh my!

34 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:12:09am

re: #28 cliffster

Image: 6099.jpg

I have no idea what this iron thing is….

35 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:12:32am

Meanwhile, politicians are playing politics with their stances. A number of NY congressional races are seeing candidates stake positions against the CI proposal - particularly in swing districts, and those who were downstate districts from which 9/11 victims families reside.

And via Newsday, Rep. Steve Israel, the Democrat in NY-2, said, “While they have a constitutional right to build the mosque, it would be better if they had demonstrated more sensitivity to the families of 9/11 victims. I urge them to do so before proceeding further.”

Rep. Tim Bishop, whose NY-1 district has three GOP challengers duking it out, said, “As a New Yorker, I believe ground zero is sacred ground and should unite us. If the group seeking to build the mosque is sincere in its efforts to bring people together, I would urge them to seek an alternative location which is less divisive. I dispute the wisdom of building at that location, not the constitutional right.”

It’s almost a given that everyone is operating under the belief that the CI is located at Ground Zero (or in Ground Zero), rather than near it, and that there’s somehow an area beyond Ground Zero that is sacrosanct for such construction.

It’s political pandering. Pure and simple. And it’s still wrong.

36 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:14:15am

re: #30 webevintage

OH!
Duh, you did that though the mystery of the coding and intertubes.

Heh.
I imagined these guys sitting at their commuters typing very slowly to make sure that no vowels were involved in their posts. It seemed like an awful lot of work to go though for a post that was gonna be deleted.

Replace “a” with “”
Replace “e” with “”
repeat for i, o, u and rinse…

mgnd ths gys sttng t thr cmmtrs typng vry slwly t mk sr tht n vwls wr nvlvd n thr psts. t smd lk n wfl lt f wrk t g thgh fr pst tht ws gnn b dltd.

37 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:14:45am

re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist

YES. Seriously, why diminish your reporter’s work by then allowing every schmuck in the world to add their insanity?

Letters to the editor can be selected.

I notice that anytime I get ready to let Marueen Dowd have it the NYTs has already closed the comments…same thing with Douchehat.

38 rwdflynavy  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:14:46am

re: #30 webevintage

OH!
Duh, you did that though the mystery of the coding and intertubes.

Heh.
I imagined these guys sitting at their commuters typing very slowly to make sure that no vowels were involved in their posts. It seemed like an awful lot of work to go though for a post that was gonna be deleted.

If you wrap your head in Reynolds Wrap, all teh vowels magically appear…

39 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:14:51am

OT Developing: Attacker Holding Hostages at Turkish Embassy in Tel Aviv.

A man took hostages in the Turkish Embassy in Tel Aviv on Tuesday after shots were fired outside, Israeli police and a Foreign Ministry official said.

A newspaper identified the attacker as a Palestinian who tried to seek asylum at another embassy four years earlier.

“This is a hostage situation,” Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told The Associated Press.

A lawyer told Israel Radio that the hostages, the consul and his wife, escaped.

Israel Radio reported from the scene that rescue workers with stretchers tried to enter the seaside embassy compound but left without bringing out any wounded

40 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:15:10am

re: #34 webevintage

I have no idea what this iron thing is…

Ancient Polynesian women used them to straighten surf boards I think. At least thats what the cave drawing looked like.

41 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:16:45am

Did you post the other article from Goldberg on the mosque? It’s pretty short.

[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative
This seems like such an obvious point, but it is apparently not obvious to the many people who oppose the Cordoba Initiative’s planned mosque in lower Manhattan, so let me state it as clearly as possible: The Cordoba Initiative, which is headed by an imam named Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an enemy of al Qaeda, no less than Rudolph Giuliani and the Anti-Defamation League are enemies of al Qaeda. Bin Laden would sooner dispatch a truck bomb to destroy the Cordoba Initiative’s proposed community center than he would attack the ADL, for the simple reason that Osama’s most dire enemies are Muslims. This is quantitatively true, of course — al Qaeda and its ideological affiliates have murdered thousands of Muslims — but it is ideologically true as well: al Qaeda’s goal is the purification of Islam (that is to say, its extreme understanding of Islam) and apostates pose more of a threat to Bin Laden’s understanding of Islam than do infidels.

I know Feisal Abdul Rauf; I’ve spoken with him at a public discussion at the 96th street mosque in New York about interfaith cooperation. He represents what Bin Laden fears most: a Muslim who believes that it is possible to remain true to the values of Islam and, at the same time, to be a loyal citizen of a Western, non-Muslim country. Bin Laden wants a clash of civilizations; the opponents of the mosque project are giving him what he wants.

42 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:17:21am

re: #35 lawhawk

It’s almost a given that everyone is operating under the belief that the CI is located at Ground Zero (or in Ground Zero), rather than near it, and that there’s somehow an area beyond Ground Zero that is sacrosanct for such construction.

The justification I heard yesterday for including the Burlington Coat Factory in some kind of sacrosanct area is that it was hit by debris from one of the planes (specifically a landing gear thingy). I’m looking for a joke in there, because I can’t find any logic.

43 AntonSirius  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:19:31am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats just what the Old Ones want you to think.

I cannot wait for that glorious, accursed day when Guillermo del Toro’s 3D adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness (produced by James Cameron) hits the big screen.

44 jaunte  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:20:06am

re: #41 marjoriemoon

This should be frequently repeated:

“Bin Laden wants a clash of civilizations; the opponents of the mosque project are giving him what he wants.”

45 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:20:26am

re: #40 DaddyG

Ancient Polynesian women used them to straighten surf boards I think. At least thats what the cave drawing looked like.

I seem to recall my mother diligently straightening this special surfboard with legs when I was a child. She used shirts to keep from burning the board.

Odd, I didn’t know my mom could surf.

46 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:20:35am

re: #41 marjoriemoon

Did you post the other article from Goldberg on the mosque? It’s pretty short.
Bin Laden wants a clash of civilizations; the opponents of the mosque project are giving him what he wants.

The terrorists have won….

47 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:21:59am

re: #43 AntonSirius

I cannot wait for that glorious, accursed day when Guillermo del Toro’s 3D adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness (produced by James Cameron) hits the big screen.

Larry King awaits the casting call.

48 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:22:09am

re: #44 jaunte

re: #46 webevintage

You guys are pretty smart! I happen to agree.

49 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:22:50am

Here is another option:

01001000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110000 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00101110

A bit tougher than disemvoweling.

50 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:23:11am

re: #43 AntonSirius

I cannot wait for that glorious, accursed day when Guillermo del Toro’s 3D adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness (produced by James Cameron) hits the big screen.

A Titus Crow movie would be enjoyable as well.

51 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:23:39am

re: #49 b_sharp

Here is another option:


A bit tougher than disemvoweling.


Hmmm…. Byte… My… Shiny… Metal…

52 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:24:15am

re: #49 b_sharp

Here is another option:


A bit tougher than disemvoweling.

How about a function which replaces all troll comments with lyrics from a Rush song?

53 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:24:15am

I joke about the iron….

I actually have a wonderful Rowena that I spent a pretty penny on and a great professional Jiffy steamer that I use for my inventory.
My own clothes on the other hand better come out of the dryer without wrinkles….

54 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:24:52am

re: #51 DaddyG

Hmmm… Byte… My… Shiny… Metal…

01010011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 01110011 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101100 01100001 01110011 01110011 00101110

55 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:01am

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How about a function which replaces all troll comments with lyrics from a Rush song?

I’d rather have the troll comments.

/

56 abolitionist  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:05am

re: #49 b_sharp

Here is another option:

A bit tougher than disemvoweling.

But not as compact.

57 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:26am

re: #49 b_sharp

Here is another option:

A bit tougher than disemvoweling.

I like that idea. Charles should translate particularly offensive posts into UTF (16-bit), just 1’s and 0’s, no spaces.

If you want to know what it says, you could figure it out, it would just take forever.

58 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:26am

re: #42 wrenchwench

If we go with that logic, then check out this map and realize that there more than 20 buildings that fall into the category of major damage. That includes all the buildings of the WTC complex (1-7WTC), the World Financial Center (WFC), the Millenium Hilton, Century 21 (East River Savings Bank Building), Deutsche Bank building, Fiterman Hall, etc.

Those have already been rebuilt/reopened include the WFC, Hilton, Century 21, and Fiterman Hall was finally demolished earlier this year and rebuilding is underway. Deutsche Bank is being demolished and should be dismantled by the end of the year.

59 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:34am

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How about a function which replaces all troll comments with lyrics from a Rush song?

I think they should all be translated into LOLcat….

60 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:25:55am

re: #56 abolitionist

But not as compact.

Hurumph. Zip it.

61 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:26:36am

re: #51 DaddyG

Hmmm… Byte… My… Shiny… Metal…

My WOW group used that as a rejoinder when anyone started bragging about their latest acquisition.

It started out as Bite My Shiny Metal Ass (My dwarf wore plate armor) but soon was shortened to BMSMA, (Pronounced Bimz-mah)

62 cliffster  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:26:52am

re: #53 webevintage

I joke about the iron…

I actually have a wonderful Rowena that I spent a pretty penny on and a great professional Jiffy steamer that I use for my inventory.
My own clothes on the other hand better come out of the dryer without wrinkles…

if I asked my wife to iron my shirts, she’d wait til I wasn’t looking and iron my shirt all right - while I was wearing it.

63 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:02am

I think we should, as a nation, declare every place that has ever been the site of a person’s death as “hallowed ground”.

Let’s see how that works out.

64 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:28am

re: #55 JasonA

I’d rather have the troll comments.

/

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their please.

65 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:37am

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How about a function which replaces all troll comments with lyrics from a Rush song?

Sounds like you have a particular one in mind?

66 Gus  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:40am

OT

Neo-Nazi gunman in Alan Berg’s murder dies in

The neo-Nazi gunman who authorities said fired 13 bullets into Denver talk-show host Alan Berg has died of natural causes in the federal penitentiary where he was serving a 252-year sentence.

Bruce Pierce died about 2:45 p.m. Monday at the Allenwood Federal Correctional Complex. He was incarcerated in the high security section of the facility located near Allenwood, Pa.

Prison spokesman Mike Castagnola said Pierce was “an average inmate” who held a full-time job and participated in recreational activities.

Castagnola said Pierce had been at the prison for about five years and was in a two-person cell. He had previously spent time at the federal prisons in Leavenworth and Marion, Ill.

Pierce, who lived in Troy, Mont., prior to Berg’s assassination, was a member of The Order, a group that had plotted to kill the outspoken Jewish talk-show host.

Berg died June 18, 1984. He was working for KOA radio at the time…

67 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:51am

re: #62 cliffster

if I asked my wife to iron my shirts, she’d wait til I wasn’t looking and iron my shirt all right - while I was wearing it.

Smart woman.

68 garhighway  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:27:57am

re: #58 lawhawk

If we go with that logic, then check out this map and realize that there more than 20 buildings that fall into the category of major damage. That includes all the buildings of the WTC complex (1-7WTC), the World Financial Center (WFC), the Millenium Hilton, Century 21 (East River Savings Bank Building), Deutsche Bank building, Fiterman Hall, etc.

Those have already been rebuilt/reopened include the WFC, Hilton, Century 21, and Fiterman Hall was finally demolished earlier this year and rebuilding is underway. Deutsche Bank is being demolished and should be dismantled by the end of the year.

Calling One Liberty “partially collapsed” was a bit of a stretch. It was a mess (and there were rumors the evening of 9/11 that it was in jeopardy) but that was it.

69 Gus  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:28:16am
70 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:29:06am

re: #54 b_sharp
01100011011011110110111101101100

71 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:29:27am

re: #66 Gus 802

OT

Neo-Nazi gunman in Alan Berg’s murder dies in

Hmfph… now it’s God’s turn.

72 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:29:31am

re: #67 b_sharp

Smart woman.

Some women think of ironing during sex and sex during ironing. :)

73 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:30:26am

re: #57 Fozzie Bear

I like that idea. Charles should translate particularly offensive posts into UTF (16-bit), just 1’s and 0’s, no spaces.

If you want to know what it says, you could figure it out, it would just take forever.

Unless you have a really cool resource to translate of course…

http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_To_Text.asp

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:31:16am

re: #44 jaunte

This should be frequently repeated:

“Bin Laden wants a clash of civilizations; the opponents of the mosque project are giving him what he wants.”

Too many people in the West are eager to step up to the clash of civilizations challenge.

75 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:31:25am

re: #73 DaddyG

Unless you have a really cool resource to translate of course…

http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binar y_Conversion/Binary_To_Text.asp

Better yet, have Babelfish translate them all to some obscure language and back again. That might be pretty funny.

76 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:31:28am

re: #72 PT Barnum

Some women think of ironing during sex and sex during ironing. :)

I think that’s a fairly normal human thing. More than once, I have had “oh crap did I leave the stove on?” thoughts during sex, and it goes without saying, since I am a guy, I have had thoughts about sex while doing the most mundane things.

77 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:31:47am

re: #59 webevintage

I think they should all be translated into LOLcat…


I can hatez Mooslims? //

78 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:32:17am

re: #70 DaddyG

01100011011011110110111101101100

01010111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110101 01110011 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110100 00111111

79 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:32:19am

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

I think we should, as a nation, declare every place that has ever been the site of a person’s death as “hallowed ground”.

Let’s see how that works out.

Well I know you’re excited, but the 3000 who died on that date is quite a bit different than others and I know I don’t have to explain why.

That site is absolutely a special site now. The Pentagon too and there should be memorials at both sites.

I found this [Link: www.whs.mil…]

80 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:32:24am

re: #77 DaddyG

I can hatez Mooslims? //

Is there an automated lolcat translator? That would be epic.

81 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:32:39am

re: #69 Gus 802

PIMF

Have you ever seen the play “God’s Country” by Stephen Deitz. It is a historical fiction based on this incident.

82 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:33:24am

re: #75 PT Barnum

Better yet, have Babelfish translate them all to some obscure language and back again. That might be pretty funny.

Like Swedish Chef, using your post for an example:

“Better yet, hefe-a Bebelffeesh trunslete-a zeem ell tu sume-a oobscoore-a lungooege-a und beck egeeen. Bork bork bork! Thet meeght be-a pretty foonny”

83 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:33:41am

re: #68 garhighway

1 Liberty suffered serious damage, and there may have been some structural damage that appeared more serious than it actually was.

I thought that the Deutsche Bank building could be salvaged, but the claims of contamination were such that they wrote it off as a total loss.

Image: File:FEMA_-_4235_-_Photograph_by_Andrea_Booher_taken_on_09-28-2001_in_New_York.jpg

(1 Liberty is wrapped in orange netting in the background. Deutshce Bank is on the right. The Marriott hotel (part of the WTC) is in the foreground along with the remnant of the South Tower).

84 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:34:35am

re: #80 Fozzie Bear

Is there an automated lolcat translator? That would be epic.

[Link: speaklolcat.com…]

85 Gus  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:34:57am

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

Have you ever seen the play “God’s Country” by Stephen Deitz. It is a historical fiction based on this incident.

Sounds familiar. Of course everyone is familiar with Alan Berg in Denver. The condo where he was living and killed is still up the street from the Blue Bird Theater.

86 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:35:41am

re: #78 b_sharp
http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_To_Text.asp I just googled it. It looks like there are others.

87 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:35:47am

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like Swedish Chef, using your post for an example:

“Better yet, hefe-a Bebelffeesh trunslete-a zeem ell tu sume-a oobscoore-a lungooege-a und beck egeeen. Bork bork bork! Thet meeght be-a pretty foonny”

I’m hoping for some hilarious Engrish type results due to syntactical differences, etc.

88 theye1  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:36:17am

I find this quote pertinent to the whole discussion:
“Do not say, that if the people do good to us, we will do good to them; and if the people oppress us, we will oppress them; but determine that if people do you good, you will do good to them; and if they oppress you, you will not oppress them” - Muhammad

89 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:36:54am

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

Hey Walter…read a piece from my radio script to my Toastmasters group last night and got some really good feedback. Still haven’t heard back from the other guy. Now to pad it out to 30 minutes.

90 prairiefire  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:37:17am

re: #53 webevintage

I thought that was a joke, Miss Seamstress.
I have a steamer I use on the Ebay clothes that I sell.

91 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:37:36am

re: #80 Fozzie Bear

Is there an automated lolcat translator? That would be epic.


http://speaklolcat.com/

(I’m not an expert in everything - I just know how to boolean search like a pro!)

92 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:37:44am

re: #79 marjoriemoon

Well I know you’re excited, but the 3000 who died on that date is quite a bit different than others and I know I don’t have to explain why.

That site is absolutely a special site now. The Pentagon too and there should be memorials at both sites.

I found this [Link: www.whs.mil…]

I know what you are saying, but it’s still in the middle of freaking Manhattan. My point is, as a nation, it is kind of dumb to act like there is a certain list of acceptable vs. unacceptable things to build near the site.

The best possible F.U. to the assholes that did this would be to not do what they want us to do. OBL wanted 9/11 to cause a clash of cultures. Building a moderate mosque nearby really is a stick in his eye. Its a refudiation (hehe) of his brand of radical Islam to do so, and it is giving him exactly what he wanted to make a big effing deal out of it.

93 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:38:22am

More details about the WTC Mall (both as it existed pre 9/11, and what is intended to be built at the new WTC).

94 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:38:24am

re: #89 PT Barnum

Hey Walter…read a piece from my radio script to my Toastmasters group last night and got some really good feedback. Still haven’t heard back from the other guy. Now to pad it out to 30 minutes.

Send it to me… I’ll give you an honest opinion.

95 garhighway  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:39:17am

re: #83 lawhawk

1 Liberty suffered serious damage, and there may have been some structural damage that appeared more serious than it actually was.

I thought that the Deutsche Bank building could be salvaged, but the claims of contamination were such that they wrote it off as a total loss.

Image: File:FEMA_-_4235_-_Photograph_by_Andrea_Booher_tak en_on_09-28-2001_in_New_York.jpg

(1 Liberty is wrapped in orange netting in the background. Deutshce Bank is on the right. The Marriott hotel (part of the WTC) is in the foreground along with the remnant of the South Tower).

My understanding was that Deutsche Bank building had the worst mold problem ever seen.

96 Vambo  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:39:51am

re: #43 AntonSirius

I cannot wait for that glorious, accursed day when Guillermo del Toro’s 3D adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness (produced by James Cameron) hits the big screen.

FIFY… I would rather not see the Old Ones lumped into a passing fad with killer pirahnas and blue people.
But yes Del Toro has abandoned The Hobbit, thank GOD.

97 Ericus58  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:40:19am

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

Send it to me… I’ll give you an honest opinion.

how much for the dis-honest opinion?

98 garhighway  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:40:45am

re: #92 Fozzie Bear

I know what you are saying, but it’s still in the middle of freaking Manhattan. My point is, as a nation, it is kind of dumb to act like there is a certain list of acceptable vs. unacceptable things to build near the site.

The best possible F.U. to the assholes that did this would be to not do what they want us to do. OBL wanted 9/11 to cause a clash of cultures. Building a moderate mosque nearby really is a stick in his eye. Its a refudiation (hehe) of his brand of radical Islam to do so, and it is giving him exactly what he wanted to make a big effing deal out of it.

The ultimate would be for us to WELCOME, with open arms, a moderate mosque.

But that boat has sailed.

99 prairiefire  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:40:59am

re: #97 Ericus58

how much for the dis-honest opinion?

That’s where the money’s at.

100 webevintage  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:41:04am

re: #90 prairiefire

I thought that was a joke, Miss Seamstress.
I have a steamer I use on the Ebay clothes that I sell.


I lurve my iron and my steamer.
When I first started selling vintage clothes I had a $20 iron and it took forever to iron things and I ruined a couple.
That’s when I got the Rowena and the steamer. The steamer works on almost any fabric, but every once in awhile I have to pull out the iron. It is nice and heavy and does the job a lot faster then those cheap irons.

101 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:41:20am

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

I will. The feedback I was looking for was more visceral, actually, and on that account it succeeded. You can tell when an audience is really paying attention and being affected by what they are hearing, and that was the case last night.

102 brownbagj  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:41:35am

Too bad Snoop Dog’s shizzolator is no longer online. Fo shizzle.

103 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:42:31am

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

Send it to me… I’ll give you an honest opinion.

as long as it’s constructive.

104 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:43:47am

re: #103 PT Barnum

as long as it’s constructive.

Whaddya want? Honest or Constructive? //

105 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:43:50am

re: #100 webevintage

I lurve my iron and my steamer.
When I first started selling vintage clothes I had a $20 iron and it took forever to iron things and I ruined a couple.
That’s when I got the Rowena and the steamer. The steamer works on almost any fabric, but every once in awhile I have to pull out the iron. It is nice and heavy and does the job a lot faster then those cheap irons.

I love the rowenta iron. Amazing, the difference between it and a cheapie. I was surprised.

106 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:45:29am

re: #105 reine.de.tout

I love the rowenta iron. Amazing, the difference between it and a cheapie. I was surprised.

People still use IRONS???
Wow..just wow.

107 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:45:43am

re: #104 DaddyG

Whaddya want? Honest or Constructive? //

I’ve been in writing groups before and for some honest means tearing you down so they can feel superior as opposed to telling you that something didn’t work for them and why.

One of the things I’ve learned from Toastmasters is how to tell someone how to improve and leaving them encouraged to do better the next time.

108 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:46:57am

re: #107 PT Barnum

My wife should join Toastmasters….
Do they allow females?
/

109 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:48:12am

re: #103 PT Barnum

as long as it’s constructive.

Actually… I take that as an insult. I have personally hosted, face to face, some of the more liberal Lizards over the years, and my personal politics has never got in the way of socializing, other topics or my opinion of someone.

I offered to look it over and give you an opinion, as a writer myself, one who has some credentials to make that offer.

Now, what you want to do with that, it’s fucking up to you Charlie.

110 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:48:22am

Ironic, isn’t it? How often have conservatives been on the attack, accusing the loyal opposition of conceding to feelings rather than fact?

111 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:48:56am

re: #108 reloadingisnotahobby

Yes..actually my club lets my 9 year old son attend meetings with me and lets him participate, even though you’re supposed to be 18 to be a full member. He is really taking to it.

It’s a great place to learn how to speak in public, even if the thought of it scares you to death. Very supportive. I finished my Advanced Communicator Bronze last night. I have two more levels before I’ll have achieved the entire communicator track.

112 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:49:20am

Speaking of LOL cats…

The daughter that works in the vets office adopted bonded with a little white kitten left on their doorstep. After a week of nursing it to health and cleaning its little bottom she decided to adopt it. That makes five kittehs for the DaddyG household if anyone is counting.

She is white with one blue eye and one brown eye, and she is stone deaf. This doesn’t keep her from mewing loudly anytime she wants something. The other cats and dogs have sniffed her over and decided she’s no threat. The kids cannot get enough of her.

Three of the male cats are black so I suggested we name her Fergie. I was voted down and lectured for not being PC.

113 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:49:46am

Everyone’s going batshit insane over this issue…

GOPer Abandons Support Of ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ After Dem Opposes It

Originally, the Utica Observer-Dispatch reports, Hanna said on August 9 that “it’s extremely easy to understand why people are upset by this, but this country was founded by people who were running away from religious persecution. So how can we become what we have beheld and found contemptible other places?”

Yesterday, Arcuri released the following statement:

“As district attorney, I spent my career protecting victims’ rights, and to me, this is no different. The pain felt by many Americans from the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is still very real, and I can understand how the thought of building a mosque near Ground Zero could reopen those wounds. For the sake of the victims and their families, I think another location should be chosen.”

And yes, Arcuri can go screw himself too.

114 What, me worry?  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:50:17am

re: #92 Fozzie Bear

I know what you are saying, but it’s still in the middle of freaking Manhattan. My point is, as a nation, it is kind of dumb to act like there is a certain list of acceptable vs. unacceptable things to build near the site.

The best possible F.U. to the assholes that did this would be to not do what they want us to do. OBL wanted 9/11 to cause a clash of cultures. Building a moderate mosque nearby really is a stick in his eye. Its a refudiation (hehe) of his brand of radical Islam to do so, and it is giving him exactly what he wanted to make a big effing deal out of it.

The site itself is sacred. Of course it is. The surrounding area? Depends, I think.

I don’t see an issue with this mosque considering Manhattan has approximately 13,000 Muslims (as of the 2000 census) and a number of mosques in the city already.

I only have to say this. I pray for the long life of Imam Rauf and his people. If one, just one Muslim goes terrorist from that mosque, it will all be blamed on Rauf even if he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

115 DaddyG  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:52:13am

re: #107 PT Barnum

I’ve been in writing groups before and for some honest means tearing you down so they can feel superior as opposed to telling you that something didn’t work for them and why.

One of the things I’ve learned from Toastmasters is how to tell someone how to improve and leaving them encouraged to do better the next time.


I used to fear “feedback” until I learned most people suck at it. Giving constructive advice is an art and part of that art is knowing what the student is ready to learn and what would be piling on.

I need to try toastmasters some time. I keep hearing good things. There is a local group here in my office building.

116 Kragar  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:52:23am

re: #96 Vambo

FIFY… I would rather not see the Old Ones lumped into a passing fad with killer pirahnas and blue people.
But yes Del Toro has abandoned The Hobbit, thank GOD.

Word is Del Toro wanted to do Madness for years, but couldn’t get a studio to sign without including a happy ending or a love story. He said that wouldn’t be possible with a Lovecraft story and wouldn’t rewrite it.

117 reine.de.tout  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:52:26am

re: #110 eclectic infidel

Ironic, isn’t it? How often have conservatives been on the attack, accusing the loyal opposition of conceding to feelings rather than fact?

Yes, exactly, I’ve actually been thinking that a lot lately and wondering when it turned around.

118 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:52:59am

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

Actually… I take that as an insult. I have personally hosted, face to face, some of the more liberal Lizards over the years, and my personal politics has never got in the way of socializing, other topics or my opinion of someone.

I offered to look it over and give you an opinion, as a writer myself, one who has some credentials to make that offer.

Now, what you want to do with that, it’s fucking up to you Charlie.

Please don’t be insulted Walter. It wasn’t my intention to insult you, but I have to admit I may have misinterpreted your offer of an honest opinion as inferring that the opinions I got back from my Toastmasters group weren’t strictly speaking, honest, in terms of being perhaps not very critical at all.

I got some very good constructive criticism back last night, and I admit, I wasn’t entirely sure that the feedback may have been less stringent than it would be from someone I didn’t know.

I will send you the script, as I need to pad it out some, and I expect that you will be able to point out good places to add detail without making the whole thing drag.

No reflection on you, Walter, just my own insecurities as a writer.

119 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:55:16am

re: #118 PT Barnum

No reflection on you, Walter, just my own insecurities as a writer.

Someone likened showing your writing to someone else as being similar to giving birth and then being afraid you’ll get told the baby’s ugly.

120 Ericus58  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 10:56:20am

re: #118 PT Barnum

Please don’t be insulted Walter. It wasn’t my intention to insult you, but I have to admit I may have misinterpreted your offer of an honest opinion as inferring that the opinions I got back from my Toastmasters group weren’t strictly speaking, honest, in terms of being perhaps not very critical at all.

I got some very good constructive criticism back last night, and I admit, I wasn’t entirely sure that the feedback may have been less stringent than it would be from someone I didn’t know.

I will send you the script, as I need to pad it out some, and I expect that you will be able to point out good places to add detail without making the whole thing drag.

No reflection on you, Walter, just my own insecurities as a writer.

Well, that was classy and thoughtful.
I think the Toastmasters group you participate in is better for you being there.

C’mon Walter, PT…. let’s bring it in now - Group Hug!

121 Ericus58  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 11:06:01am

I killed the thread….

122 prairiefire  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 11:06:29am

re: #100 webevintage

Domestic Goddess, bitch./

Martha Stewart is a Democrat, ya know.

123 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 11:09:59am

re: #121 Ericus58

I killed the thread…

Thanks for your feedback on my apology to Walter. I didn’t mean to offend, but sometimes do despite my best efforts.

124 davesax  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:01:45pm

I was wrong to voice objections to this mosque/cultural center.

Charles and Jeffrey have done enough due diligence on this issue and I trust them both in their assessments.

This “debate” has gotten way out of control. The country - especially New York City - really has more important problems.

If they want to build, let them build.

It’s time to move on.

125 Ming  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:02:39pm

The opposition to the Cordoba Mosque is appalling. From everything I’ve read, including the latest from Jeffrey Goldberg, the people involved with Cordoba are precisely the “good Muslims” whom those of us from other faiths need to get to know as friends. But all that matters to some people is that this is an opportunity to criticize President Obama.

126 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:08:06pm

After reading and rereading Imam Rauf’s comments, and especially after listening to the audio of full interview that someone posted here yesterday I think there’s something people have been overlooking.

Imam Rauf has repeatedly stated that he’s a bridge builder. He also works with leaders of other faiths, which is more than enough to make him persona non grata in certain circles. He also travels and reaches out to the Muslim world, where things are much more complicated & politically volatile.

He’s not the president or some other big shot politician that can flatly say, “I condemn Hamas” and then send some lower level emissary to do his outreach—he does his own traveling and his own reaching out personally. In order to do that effectively I don’t see how he can be seen to be taking sides.

Yes, yes I know Hamas is a terrorist organization and is responsible for many horrible things, but dealing with their crimes is a job for law enforcement, the military, and political leaders, not Imam Rauf. If he wants to build bridges to try to effect change, he can’t do that by going on the offensive and possibly alienating the very people he’s trying to open a dialog with. I’m not referring to the leaders of Hamas as they’ve made their position pretty clear and aren’t likely to change, I’m talking about reaching out to other Palestinian groups and individuals who may have local influence.

Regardless of how you or I feel about Hamas, the view is guaranteed to be different on the ground in Gaza. If, as a Muslim attempting outreach to other Muslims in the Middle East, Imam Rauf were to openly condemn Hamas in addition to already having openly expressed his support for Israel, then those groups & individuals who might otherwise be willing to talk to him would probably shut him out completely. Why? I don’t know, maybe suspicion of his motives (imagine that//), maybe fear of reprisals, or maybe because they feel they have no alternative (to represent them). I’m pretty sure that’s why he got a bit testy in the interview when the guy kept pushing him to make a statement.

Anyway, I just wanted to add my opinion, even though I know it might not be popular. As far as I’m concerned, Imam Rauf has already proven himself to be sincere based on both his past work and also because of the people I’ve seen defending his reputation. The man has been doing what he does for many years, so I’m going to trust that he knows how to do it well and that his reason for not making more aggressive statements with regard to Hamas (or similar groups) is based on practicality, not on some nefarious hidden sympathies.

127 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:14:04pm

Heh, look like I came to the thread late, as usual. Oh, well. *shrugs*

128 Four More Tears  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:22:22pm

re: #127 CuriousLurker

Heh, look like I came to the thread late, as usual. Oh, well. *shrugs*

{CL}

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:24:57pm

re: #126 CuriousLurker

I think that was an excellent post.

130 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:27:18pm

re: #128 JasonA

{CL}

Right back at ya’ {JasonA} ;o)

131 CuriousLurker  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 12:27:37pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

I think that was an excellent post.

Thanks!

132 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Aug 17, 2010 11:13:20pm

The more violent/confrontational/pro-terror Muslims must be laughing their butts off about the whole Cordoba House/Park51 mess. What little credibility and political capital the more bigoted opponents of this project have is being used against a project supported by more moderate Muslims. After this mess is over and it becomes un-PC to criticize any Muslim project, the radicals will have no problem getting their projects through.

In other words, the hate is being sent in the wrong direction, and the radicals’ heavy lifting is inadvertently being done by the moderates.


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