Ted Olson Supports Cordoba House

US News • Views: 4,197

Former Bush administration Solicitor General Ted Olson, whose wife Barbara was killed in the September 11 terror attacks, supports the Cordoba House project.

Also speaking out on the mosque today on MSNBC, Ted Olson, a former Bush Solicitor General. After an interview about his role challenging Prop 8, Olson was asked about the mosque and said that he will anger some of his friends by saying that he agrees with President Obama on this and supports the right to build the mosque.

And the deranged wingnuts at Free Republic are spewing hatred at him, of course.

Dontchaknow Islam loves this guy for his blind stupidity?

5 posted on August 18, 2010 1:21:13 PM PDT by Monkey Face

[…]

Ted needs to be checked out as he has become unbalanced. This is offensive, but even more offensive is his new role as spokesman for gay marriage. His participation in CAs proposition 8 is incredibly disappointing. Apparently this conservative no longer believes the will of the people, and believes in an all powerful ruling class.

8 posted on August 18, 2010 1:21:42 PM PDT by ilgipper

[…]

What a wussified coward!

If it had been my wife, I’d be waging my own CRUSADE against these b*st*rds!

16 posted on August 18, 2010 1:24:37 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty

[…]

He thinks it fine to have naked muslims swimming above the dead of 9-11?

21 posted on August 18, 2010 1:27:16 PM PDT by donozark

[…]

Olsen’s a spokesman for gay marriage?

Maybe he went gay after moslems killed his wife, yet doesn’t mind being killed by moslems himself. Thus he supports the mosque aka toilet.

I can’t figure it out.

26 posted on August 18, 2010 1:28:27 PM PDT by StopObama2012

[…]

Ted has went to the other side.

13 posted on August 18, 2010 1:23:09 PM PDT by indylindy

Jump to bottom

517 comments
1 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:15:45pm

Joe Sestak too.

Maybe this will turn around a bit.

2 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:18:47pm

His participation in CAs proposition 8 is incredibly disappointing. Apparently this conservative no longer believes the will of the people, and believes in an all powerful ruling class.

Yeah, he's so in favor of an all powerful ruling class that he... argued in favor of protecting a minority group from discrimination by mob rule. Makes perfect sense.

No wonder conservatism is in shambles.

3 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:19:45pm

re: #2 Nick Schroeder

No wonder conservatism is in shambles.

They has went crazy.

4 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:20:24pm

Believe it or not, I used to be a FReeper. What a shithole that place has become. I wouldn't go back there even to post an "Opus" (FReepspeak for "flounce")

5 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:21:02pm

gay marriage.....9/11 mosques.....what ever happened to the good old fashion politics of my taxes are too fucking high...

6 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:21:10pm

Now can we question their patriotism?

///

7 OneCenterRight  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:21:39pm

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

8 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:23:18pm
naked muslims swimming


???

9 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:23:19pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

You have no right to speak for 9/11 family members, and you don't know what you're talking about.

10 Locker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:23:33pm

The "Will of the people" is often retarded and in some cases, illegal. Not that they care, majority always rules unless they are on the opposite side then someone is taking away their "rights".

11 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:24:15pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

would have updinged ya except for the word "fortunately" which was unfortunately was a turn off.

12 Locker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:24:43pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

I believe it's morons like you who blame the entire Muslim religion for a couple of whack jobs and create a false environment of fear and distrust. Lame.

13 brennant  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:24:50pm

re: #8 jaunte

???

I don't get that either... Amazing how many folks believe it will be built at Ground Zero...

14 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:24:54pm

re: #3 Charles

They has went crazy.

Indeed. I always thought that Free Republic was about as crazy stupid as you could get before fully venturing into StormFront territory, but I think the 'Being Conservative' page on Facebook finally surpassed them today. I'd say a full 80% of the posts are pretty much outright demanding the deportation of all Muslims.

Be warned, the crazy is strong... (anyone should be able to see the link but I apologize if I'm wrong about that)

15 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:25:07pm

re: #8 jaunte

???

Exactly what I was thinking.

16 mr.fusion  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:25:07pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

How do you know that? What counts as a 9/11 family? Just immediate? Do friends have a say? Have a poll for that?

9/11 families: What they say matters, unless they disagree with me! (see Beck's quote on 9/11 families)

17 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:25:32pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

And what of the families of Muslim victims? You think telling them that the deaths of their loved ones isn't as tragic as the deaths of the white Christians is "appropriate"?

Take your faux outrage and blow it out your ass.

18 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:26:36pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

I'm sure that's what all the Muslims who were murdered by terrorists on 9/11 would want, too. You know, because they don't matter and you probably won't even acknowledge their existence.

19 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:27:16pm

re: #15 CuriousLurker

Exactly what I was thinking.

Nekkid Muslims: must be an even more outrageous subgroup.

20 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:28:34pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Chickenshit.
Stop hiding behind the families of 9/11 and just say what you really mean.
You.
Hate.
Islam.

21 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:29:02pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face.

Who needs forgiveness, for what?

22 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:29:45pm

"Ground Zero Mosque" isn't inflammatory enough anymore; now it's the "Ground Zero VICTORY mosque" complete with nekkid terrorists frolicking in the Mohammed Atta reflecting pool.

23 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:31:30pm

Much more important than the government stepping in to stop Muslims from exercising their rights, is the need for the government to step in and finally shut down Brett Favre, to end his reign of terror over all of our lives (at least those of us who follow sports)

24 Locker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:31:36pm

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

"Ground Zero Mosque" isn't inflammatory enough anymore; now it's the "Ground Zero VICTORY mosque" complete with nekkid terrorists frolicking in the Mohammed Atta reflecting pool.

I believe the term is "Ground Zero Victory Mega-Mosque" I'm waiting for SuperStore to be added...

25 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:31:52pm

9-11-01 Muslim victims. Partial list

Imagine being the family of Salman Hamdani. The 23-year-old New York City police cadet was a part-time ambulance driver, incoming medical student, and devout Muslim. When he disappeared on September 11, law enforcement officials came to his family, seeking him for questioning in relation to the terrorist attacks. They allegedly believed he was somehow involved. His whereabouts were undetermined for over six months, until his remains were finally identified. He was found near the North Tower, with his EMT medical bag beside him, presumably doing everything he could to help those in need.

26 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:32:14pm

re: #8 jaunte

???

re: #15 CuriousLurker

Exactly what I was thinking.

That comment is beyond weird. Where do these people come from?

27 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:32:55pm
Olsen’s a spokesman for gay marriage?

Maybe he went gay after moslems killed his wife, yet doesn’t mind being killed by moslems himself. Thus he supports the mosque aka toilet.

I can’t figure it out.

26 posted on August 18, 2010 1:28:27 PM PDT by StopObama2012

The target demographic.

28 Super-ego  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:33:00pm

It really is disappointing to read those stupid comments from a poster at FR.

And to think people lump all Conservatives in with people like that.

29 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:33:14pm

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

"Ground Zero Mosque" isn't inflammatory enough anymore; now it's the "Ground Zero VICTORY mosque" complete with nekkid terrorists frolicking in the Mohammed Atta reflecting pool.

I prefer "Ground Zero Islamofascist 9/11 Victory Terror Dome".

30 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:33:20pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

Where is your proof that a majority of 9/11 families are against this center? I have not seen any. There are several different groups within that "9/11 family" moniker.

Charles is right, you don't speak for them and they are not one monolithic bloc with one opinion.

31 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:34:34pm

re: #26 Nimed

re: #15 CuriousLurker

That comment is beyond weird. Where do these people come from?

I'm still scratching my head over that one. Apparently the poster didn't get the old email about Muslim men supposedly being obligated to commit suicide if they saw a naked woman. *eyeroll*

32 Artist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:34:44pm

re: #28 Super-ego

Considering these "people" have all but taken over the movement, they're making it kinda hard...

33 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:35:23pm

Another (very) idle thought: What will scholars a hundred years from now make of this? Will they see it as we see the transparent propaganda campaign that incited the Spanish-American War? The ludicrous jingoism that preceded the First World War? The open racism that surrounded Jack Johnson and the era of the "Great White Hope?"
I don't want my great-great grandchildren looking at my headstone and asking, "Why couldn't you have stopped these crazy people, grandpa?"

34 Locker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:39:15pm

re: #33 Shiplord Kirel

Another (very) idle thought: What will scholars a hundred years from now make of this? Will they see it as we see the transparent propaganda campaign that incited the Spanish-American War? The ludicrous jingoism that preceded the First World War? The open racism that surrounded Jack Johnson and the era of the "Great White Hope?"
I don't want my great-great grandchildren looking at my headstone and asking, "Why couldn't you have stopped these crazy people, grandpa?"

It feels more like the McCarthy hunt for communists to me. Repealing the 14th Amendment, immigrant profiling, calls for the end of religious freedom for "enemies of the state", etc.

These bucket heads are a torch carrying lynch mob which is glorified and strengthened by it's own hatred.

35 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:40:03pm

re: #30 blueraven

Where is your proof that a majority of 9/11 families are against this center? I have not seen any. There are several different groups within that "9/11 family" moniker.

Charles is right, you don't speak for them and they are not one monolithic bloc with one opinion.

That's really gotta be the most disgusting thing about this entire affair: Legions of bigots, trying to hide behind "compassion" for the families of 9/11 victims. Making the bullshit claim that they speak for all or a majority of those families, saying that the families wish to see the center stopped or moved, and getting outraged when you suggest that the families either don't care or support this center.

Nothing made me hate the anti-war crowd more during the Bush years than when they used the coffins of our dead soldiers as soapboxes, claiming to speak in their names while spewing the most vile hatred towards any and all who supported the war. To see the Right resort to such tactics is enough to turn me off to them permanently. I cannot, in good conscience, ever support the Right again.

36 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:40:17pm

Like Obama, Olsen said he agrees that they have the legal right to build there.
It is not clear whether Olsen, like Obama, declined to comment on the "wisdom" of it.
Gingrich also conceded the legal right, IIRC, but says it was a bad idea.
Patterson also concedes the legal right, but wants to see if it can be moved voluntarily.
Even nut Geller said on her CNN interview that this was not about the legal right to build the mosque there. She is of course virulently arguing that the mosque is a terrible, hateful idea.
So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

37 Super-ego  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:40:53pm

re: #32 SteelPH

Considering these "people" have all but taken over the movement, they're making it kinda hard...

I can't disagree that they're getting a lot of attention. Noisy wheels get oiled.

38 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:42:13pm

re: #14 Nick Schroeder

Indeed. I always thought that Free Republic was about as crazy stupid as you could get before fully venturing into StormFront territory, but I think the 'Being Conservative' page on Facebook finally surpassed them today. I'd say a full 80% of the posts are pretty much outright demanding the deportation of all Muslims.

Be warned, the crazy is strong... (anyone should be able to see the link but I apologize if I'm wrong about that)

Well, crap. Someone who I thought of as a friend actually favorited that page. He recently went the "born again" route, so I guess this should have been expected. Dammit.

39 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:42:26pm

What has eight legs, eight arms, and eight eyes?

Eight Pirates, ARRRRGGHHH !

40 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:43:11pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake

I question the Wisdom™ of building a Catholic Church near a playground.
I question the Wisdom™ of building an Evangelical Church near an abortion clinic.
Funny how bigoted that sounds when it's your own religion being broadbrushed.

41 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:43:55pm

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm thinking it's not called the Cordoba Center because of its fine Corinthian leather. How many mosques are there in NYC already? Why would they refuse to build their "center for outreach and tolerance" in another location, even in the face of such vocal opposition? Who is funding the mosque? (If it's okay to investigate the opposition to the mosque, isn't it okay to investigate those in favor of it?) How about we all take a breath, and ask for some true tolerance and understanding. If they insist on building Cordoba House in this location, let them. It's not unconstitutional, nor even illegal. And it will give everyone a good idea of just how much the builders actually believe in outreach, tolerance, and building bridges.

42 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:44:02pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

I'm still scratching my head over that one. Apparently the poster didn't get the old email about Muslim men supposedly being obligated to commit suicide if they saw a naked woman. *eyeroll*

Exactly. They could at least make an effort to engage in coherent demonization. Is that too much to ask?
/

43 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:44:09pm

re: #33 Shiplord Kirel

Another (very) idle thought: What will scholars a hundred years from now make of this? Will they see it as we see the transparent propaganda campaign that incited the Spanish-American War? The ludicrous jingoism that preceded the First World War? The open racism that surrounded Jack Johnson and the era of the "Great White Hope?"
I don't want my great-great grandchildren looking at my headstone and asking, "Why couldn't you have stopped these crazy people, grandpa?"

How about Manzanar? Is this not exactly the kind of paranoia that led to internment? And BTW we did grab and intern a bunch of people here with legit visas or a process underway.

44 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:44:47pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake


So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

So you missed the people saying they'd use eminent domain to prevent the community center-- why do you keep calling it a mosque?-- from being built?

How'd you miss that?

45 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:45:08pm

re: #42 Nimed

Exactly. They could at least make an effort to engage in coherent demonization. Is that too much to ask?
/

LOL!!

46 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:45:14pm
Dontchaknow Islam loves hates this guy for his blind stupidity? still keeping to the American ideal of religious freedom


FTFY, jackhole.

47 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:45:29pm

re: #41 Odahi

Number of Churches in America = ~335,000.
Number of Mosques in America = ~1200.
What's your point?

48 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:45:34pm

re: #40 Varek Raith

I question the Wisdom™ of building a Catholic Church near a playground.
I question the Wisdom™ of building an Evangelical Church near an abortion clinic.
Funny how bigoted that sounds when it's your own religion being broadbrushed.

And that right there is yer acid test!

49 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:45:49pm

re: #10 Locker

The purpose of the Bill of Rights was, in large part, to protect the rights of individuals against the "will of the people". True American conservatives, being simply the right wing of liberalism, believe in and promote that philosophy. It is the extermists at both end of the spectrum that would subvert the rights of the individual to their philosophy and political viewpoint.

50 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:46:56pm

This whole issue is infuriating and mind boggling.
Really?
I thought we were way beyond this bullshit.

51 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:48:05pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake

Like Obama, Olsen said he agrees that they have the legal right to build there.
It is not clear whether Olsen, like Obama, declined to comment on the "wisdom" of it.
Gingrich also conceded the legal right, IIRC, but says it was a bad idea.
Patterson also concedes the legal right, but wants to see if it can be moved voluntarily.
Even nut Geller said on her CNN interview that this was not about the legal right to build the mosque there. She is of course virulently arguing that the mosque is a terrible, hateful idea.
So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

There is a difference between what Obama said and what Gingrich, Geller and that crowd is pushing and you know it.
They are trying to paint all Muslims, Islam and the Imam in particular as evil terrorist.

52 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:48:11pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake

Like Obama, Olsen said he agrees that they have the legal right to build there.
It is not clear whether Olsen, like Obama, declined to comment on the "wisdom" of it.
Gingrich also conceded the legal right, IIRC, but says it was a bad idea.
Patterson also concedes the legal right, but wants to see if it can be moved voluntarily.
Even nut Geller said on her CNN interview that this was not about the legal right to build the mosque there. She is of course virulently arguing that the mosque is a terrible, hateful idea.
So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

Because the leaders of the anti-mosque movement (Geller, et al) don't really concede the Constitutional issue. Yeah, they understand that it's the way it is NOW, but won't rest until people are trying to stop any mosque from being built anywhere and Islam is no longer considered a religion. Should be clear, considering that their number 3 speaker at their upcoming anti-mosque rally, behind Newt and Bolton, is one Geert Wilders, who wants to ban the Koran, pay Muslim immigrants to force them to leave, and institute a "tax" of about 1000 Euros a year to wear a frickin headscarf.

53 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:48:18pm

re: #41 Odahi

Actually, it's showing just how intolerant those who are opposed to this center are.

54 KingKenrod  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:49:02pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake

Like Obama, Olsen said he agrees that they have the legal right to build there.
It is not clear whether Olsen, like Obama, declined to comment on the "wisdom" of it.
Gingrich also conceded the legal right, IIRC, but says it was a bad idea.
Patterson also concedes the legal right, but wants to see if it can be moved voluntarily.
Even nut Geller said on her CNN interview that this was not about the legal right to build the mosque there. She is of course virulently arguing that the mosque is a terrible, hateful idea.
So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

It's a problem when public officials say stuff like "say, you outta move that nice little mosque somewhere else...". Gingrich and Geller aren't public officials, but it's obvious they are putting pressure on elected officials, which makes it a religious freedom issue. Private citizens are free to do that, it's just a shame so many people with actual political power are buying it and weighing in publicly.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:49:26pm

re: #5 Big Steve

gay marriage...9/11 mosques...what ever happened to the good old fashion politics of my taxes are too fucking high...

Oddly enough, I think they also have that going.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:50:19pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Fortunately, Ted's opinion is not representative of the majority of surviving family members. There is a huge difference between forgiveness and in your face. I believe a more appropriate move would be to show consideration of the affected families and build the mosque elsewhere.

Apparently only families that agree with you are 'affected'. Everyone else was glad to be rid of their troublesome loved ones.

///feh

57 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:50:41pm

re: #36 Spare O'Lake

Like Obama, Olsen said he agrees that they have the legal right to build there.
It is not clear whether Olsen, like Obama, declined to comment on the "wisdom" of it.
Gingrich also conceded the legal right, IIRC, but says it was a bad idea.
Patterson also concedes the legal right, but wants to see if it can be moved voluntarily.
Even nut Geller said on her CNN interview that this was not about the legal right to build the mosque there. She is of course virulently arguing that the mosque is a terrible, hateful idea.
So all that anybody is arguing about is whether the mosque is a good idea, not whether it is legal.
So how is this still a constitutional issue at this point?

The reason it is a Constitutional issue is because I, and I'm sure other lizards as well, doubt that the Founding Fathers meant for our rights to be subject to popular opinion. That one should only be allowed to exercise their rights except where they might hurt somebody's feelings. You know, kinda like how we also oppose "hate speech" laws or muzzling reporters by ordering them to take certain words out of their vocabularies in order not to offend the "sensitive" feelings of some readers.

58 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:50:52pm

re: #47 Varek Raith

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

59 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:51:37pm

re: #58 Odahi

When you say "they" who do you mean?

60 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:51:50pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

What does it matter to you how many mosques there are? How many should there be?

61 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:52:39pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

I wasn't aware that there was a law stating how many places of worship a particular religion is allowed.
Jerk.

62 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:53:00pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

Now replace "mosques" with "black churches" and "NYC" with "the South."

Starting to understand?

63 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:53:00pm

The Red Army Chorus sings Ociy Cernye:


Youtube Video
64 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:53:47pm

re: #4 Alouette

Believe it or not, I used to be a FReeper. What a shithole that place has become. I wouldn't go back there even to post an "Opus" (FReepspeak for "flounce")

I was one for a very brief time before my account as blocked/deleted. There was a story being run by Planned Parenthood about a young Catholic girl who was raped by either a relative or step-father, impregnated, and then sought (and got) an abortion at, apparently, a Catholic hospital, somewhere in South America. So there was abortion bashing, women bashing, Catholic bashing, etc. I made the mistake of defending the young girl's decision.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:53:48pm

re: #19 jaunte

Nekkid Muslims: must be an even more outrageous subgroup.

Sounds like a band. Bare-Nekkid Muslims.

A gal I know was once lead singer for a band called Iraqis in Pajamas, but they were all Jewish. And covered.

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:54:25pm

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

"Ground Zero Mosque" isn't inflammatory enough anymore; now it's the "Ground Zero VICTORY mosque" complete with nekkid terrorists frolicking in the Mohammed Atta reflecting pool.

Now, is this mixed-gender nekkid terrorist frolicking?

67 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:54:51pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Sounds like a band. Bare-Nekkid Muslims.

A gal I know was once lead singer for a band called Iraqis in Pajamas, but they were all Jewish. And covered.


Way to disappoint there, SFZ.
/

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:55:23pm

re: #24 Locker

I believe the term is "Ground Zero Victory Mega-Mosque" I'm waiting for SuperStore to be added...

In the King of the Hill Episode with the MegaChurch, there's a Starbucks that offers a 20% discount to clergy. Which is how the Hills run into the pastor of the church that they stomped away from, as she's buying a latte.

69 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:55:43pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say the concern over the proximity of sky-clad Muslims to Ground Zero is a unique one.

70 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:56:25pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

How about because Muslims in the area are currently PRAYING IN THE STREETS for lack of space?

Should Jews in NYC be allowed to build another synagogue since they already have so many? Should Christians in NYC be allowed to build another church since they already have so many?

71 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:56:40pm

re: #69 jaunte

I have to say the concern over the proximity of sky-clad Muslims to Ground Zero is a unique one.

But strippers and gay Muslims congregating the same distance away? Shit, man, freedom of...er, something or other. Either way, it's okay, just so long as they ain't prayin'.

/

72 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:56:51pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

As far as I can gather from the internet, there are well over 6,000 churches in New York City. Let's ban the building of any new church in NYC!!!!!

/

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:57:22pm

re: #25 Bubblehead II

9-11-01 Muslim victims. Partial list

Imagine being the family of Salman Hamdani. The 23-year-old New York City police cadet was a part-time ambulance driver, incoming medical student, and devout Muslim. When he disappeared on September 11, law enforcement officials came to his family, seeking him for questioning in relation to the terrorist attacks. They allegedly believed he was somehow involved. His whereabouts were undetermined for over six months, until his remains were finally identified. He was found near the North Tower, with his EMT medical bag beside him, presumably doing everything he could to help those in need.


Thanks for that link.

74 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:57:28pm

re: #70 CuriousLurker

But primarily, since they have the permits to build, the people who want the community center and mosque need no other reason.

75 researchok  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:57:32pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

I think there are too many Catholic churches, Episcopal churches, Synagogues and way too many Presbyterian churches for my liking.

Yeah, I'm with you.

/

76 Laughing Gas  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:07pm

I'm more and more convinced that this country has a lot of traits common to the third world rather than the industrialized West. You figure that with our great universities that people would be more knowledgeable and forward thinking. But such a huge percentage of people believe in creationist ideas (these are the same people who oppose freedom of religion for non-Christians and non-Jews). I don't know why that is. I think that the South and its value system are gradually creeping into the mainstream.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:10pm

re: #31 CuriousLurker

I'm still scratching my head over that one. Apparently the poster didn't get the old email about Muslim men supposedly being obligated to commit suicide if they saw a naked woman. *eyeroll*


Why I jogged around the block in the nudd for like, half an hour, and not a single terrorist freaked out.

//

78 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:11pm

re: #74 jaunte

But primarily, since they have the permits to build, the people who want the community center and mosque need no other reason.

Man I am so hoping they don't fold and go for it.

79 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #72 JamesWI

As far as I can gather from the internet, there are well over 6,000 churches in New York City. Let's ban the building of any new church in NYC!!!

/

Doesn't it just make you want to smash your head into something to make you forget about all this stupidity?

80 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:45pm

re: #41 Odahi

"Why would they refuse to build their "center for outreach and tolerance" in another location, even in the face of such vocal opposition?"

Why should they move just because a bunch of people don't like the idea of a Muslim operated civic center that just happens to have a Prayer Room? Would those in opposition relent if the Developers agreed to remove the prayer room? Not likely. These people are not against this because it is being built close to the WTC Plaza. They are against it because it is being built by Muslims and believers of Islam. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you think there would be as much of an outcry if it was another Religion that was building there? I don't.

81 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:58pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

So what's the acceptable number of houses of worship in lower Manhattan? Please include numbers for each of the top 10 most practiced religions in America, and include and sub-sort them by denomination.

82 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:58:59pm

re: #76 Juice

Its more that that value-set is starting to die off, what we're seeing now is the shrill hysteria of a movement on its last legs.

83 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:59:41pm

I, FOR ONE, do NOT have a problem with them building a mosque, madrassa, or "community center" wherever they can legally do so (zoning laws, fire codes, and other regulations still apply as they should for any such project). I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear. And no, I don't care WHAT religion it is.

84 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:00:04pm

re: #81 Nick Schroeder

So what's the acceptable number of houses of worship in lower Manhattan? Please include numbers for each of the top 10 most practiced religions in America, and include and sub-sort them by denomination.


He'd hit the character limit per post real quick like.
:)

85 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:00:28pm

re: #83 Odahi

Jup, they're the agressors, not the victims of bigotry and hate.

They should respect other peoples prejudices!

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:00:46pm

re: #41 Odahi

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm thinking it's not called the Cordoba Center because of its fine Corinthian leather.

You'd be right. It's called the Cordoba Center because Cordoba, under the Moors, was called 'the ornament of the world', and like New York today, was a place where the sciences and arts flourished, along with a degree of interfaith cooperation and mutual respect remarkable in the Middle Ages.

87 researchok  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:00:50pm

re: #76 Juice

I'm more and more convinced that this country has a lot of traits common to the third world rather than the industrialized West. You figure that with our great universities that people would be more knowledgeable and forward thinking. But such a huge percentage of people believe in creationist ideas (these are the same people who oppose freedom of religion for non-Christians and non-Jews). I don't know why that is. I think that the South and its value system are gradually creeping into the mainstream.

Yeah, the only real Americans worth a damn are north of the Mason Dixon line.

/

88 Mentis Fugit  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:36pm

re: #8 jaunte

naked muslims swimming

???


Worst. Twelve Days of Christmas. Parody. Ever.

89 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:37pm

re: #58 Odahi

Well in that case, lets put a stop and the construction of all Churches, Synagogues, ect. There are way to many of them anyway.

/////

90 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:41pm

re: #87 researchok

Well you know all it is, the problem is 'southern culture', not 'all southerners', its different.

91 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #83 Odahi

Oh, please.
Your the one who's intolerant.
The opposition are the one's who are intolerant.
Get over you self-righteous self.

92 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:46pm

re: #33 Shiplord Kirel

Another (very) idle thought: What will scholars a hundred years from now make of this? Will they see it as we see the transparent propaganda campaign that incited the Spanish-American War? The ludicrous jingoism that preceded the First World War? The open racism that surrounded Jack Johnson and the era of the "Great White Hope?"
I don't want my great-great grandchildren looking at my headstone and asking, "Why couldn't you have stopped these crazy people, grandpa?"

Now that the Library of Congress is archiving Twitter, at the very least future historians (assuming there are any) will have ample proof of how dumb we are, collectively.

93 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:52pm

re: #74 jaunte

But primarily, since they have the permits to build, the people who want the community center and mosque need no other reason.

Of course. But TEH STOOPID, IT BURNS.

Image: The_Stupid__It_Burns_by_Plognark.png

94 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:01:59pm

The White House issued a statement about the Reid statement...

SEATTLE — President Barack Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) have agreed to disagree on a Muslim group’s controversial plans to build an Islamic community center and mosque a couple of blocks from ground zero in lower Manhattan.

Obama “respects the right of anybody — Democrat, Republican, independent — to disagree with his opinion on this,” White House spokesman Bill Burton told reporters Tuesday.

“Senator Reid is a fiercely independent individual,” Burton said. “It’s one of his strengths as a leader of the Democratic Party. So the president feels completely fine that [they] might disagree.”

[Link: www.politico.com...]

I was hoping for something a little less pandering from the administration. Que sera sera.

95 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:02:16pm

re: #83 Odahi

The outcry and any "need for compromise" arises from an ignorant and bigoted idea that the people building the community center and mosque are connected to the terrorists who attacked the WTC.

96 webevintage  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:02:47pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

except the community center with a mosque is needed where they plan on building it...not somewhere else.

97 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:02:47pm

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

I would have loved to have Obama throw him on the bus, I guess theres some point where reality has to trump idealism, eventually :(

98 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:02:50pm

re: #92 negativ

Now that the Library of Congress is archiving Twitter, at the very least future historians (assuming there are any) will have ample proof of how dumb we are, collectively.

For reals?
Really, for reals?

99 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:02:55pm

re: #7 OneCenterRight

Frtntl, Td's pnn s nt rprsnttv f th mjrt f srvvng fml mmbrs. Thr s hg dffrnc btwn frgvnss nd n yr fc. blv mr pprprt mv wld b t shw cnsdrtn f th ffctd fmls nd bld th msq lswhr.

Sock sez what?

100 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:14pm

re: #83 Odahi

I, FOR ONE, do NOT have a problem with them building a mosque, madrassa, or "community center" wherever they can legally do so (zoning laws, fire codes, and other regulations still apply as they should for any such project). I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear. And no, I don't care WHAT religion it is.

So, you agree then that the three Christian churches (two Protestant, one Catholic), the Jewish Synagogue, the Shinto Buddhist temple that are all built within the 1/4 mile radius of ground zero that the Cordoba House is wanting to build in are all also in bad taste?

101 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:22pm

re: #80 Bubblehead II

Please tell us more about what ALL those who are opposed to this think, feel, and believe.

102 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:41pm

Northrop's flying wing.

103 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:43pm

re: #97 windsagio

I would have loved to have Obama throw him on the bus, I guess theres some point where reality has to trump idealism, eventually :(

Or pandering trumps morality.

104 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:50pm

re: #101 Odahi

True some of them are just ignorant and easily swayed by populist fearmongering.

105 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:03:51pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

Lets see how this question plays if we change the object a bit, just as a thought experiment
# of churches in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?
# of synagogues in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?
# of shopping malls in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

Hmm. What I see is that the very premise of the question is invalid. No one needs to prove the necessity to establish a prayer room in a building they wish to buy.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:10pm

re: #58 Odahi

# of mosques in NYC, in excess of 100. Why do they need another, and in this particular spot?

1. The property is available, and suitable.

2. It's a community center, with all kinds of facilities that your average storefront mosque doesn't have. I'm gonna guess the average NYC mosque is basically a shtiebl, where people come to pray in community, but is lacking a reception room, a swimming pool, macrame classes, etc.

3. Apparently part of the plan is to triangulate the area of Manhattan that's not currently covered by the JCC and the 93rd St. Y.

107 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:13pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Or pandering trumps morality.

Ding ding ding!
Give the man a prize!

108 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:24pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

If Obama had said he was right, that would be pandering :p

How many times to I have to say Reid today? :D

109 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:33pm

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

OT, but naming prominent civic locations after notorious terrorists is generally the province of the Palestinian Authority, which for some reason continues to be given a free pass by the West for this activity. On a related note, how long until the PA honors this piece of filth for his contributions toward Zionist population control?

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

110 researchok  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:53pm

re: #90 windsagio

Well you know all it is, the problem is 'southern culture', not 'all southerners', its different.

I understand your point, but in fact there was just as much 'backwardness' north of the Mason Dixon line.

Recall the busing riots in Boston and Detroit, for example.

Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville for example, are far more integrated today than most cities north of the MD line.

111 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:04:59pm

re: #89 Bubblehead II

Any number of folks who scorn and deride "creationists" would probably agree with you.

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:05:00pm

re: #108 windsagio

If Obama had said he was right, that would be pandering :p

How many times to I have to say Reid today? :D

YRRAH DEIR!

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:05:24pm

re: #60 wrenchwench

What does it matter to you how many mosques there are? How many should there be?

How many Muslims are there in New York? What is the maximum number of Muslims that can belong to a single mosque before a fight breaks out about whatever the Muslim equivalent of standing or not standing for the Shema is?

114 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:05:41pm

re: #98 Varek Raith

For reals?
Really, for reals?

Library acquires entire Twitter archive

Have you ever sent out a “tweet” on the popular Twitter social media service? Congratulations: Your 140 characters or less will now be housed in the Library of Congress.

That’s right. Every public tweet, ever, since Twitter’s inception in March 2006, will be archived digitally at the Library of Congress. That’s a LOT of tweets, by the way: Twitter processes more than 50 million tweets every day, with the total numbering in the billions.

115 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:05:42pm

re: #110 researchok

There's a particular flavor that's especially toxic, and you have to admit, it has its origins and heart in the south/southeast. I hate to be regionalist, but c'mon.

116 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:06:13pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

Ding ding ding!
Give the man a prize!

But remember, I sad pandering, as in panderer, the title "bigot" is reserved for only people on the right.
//

117 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:06:15pm

re: #114 negativ

Library acquires entire Twitter archive

Hahahaha!
Awesome.
Thanks!

118 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:06:21pm

Oh WUB: Your ex boss is still a 'rhymes with I want to strangle her ass and throw her in the woodchipper'

119 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:07:13pm

re: #116 Walter L. Newton

Now, now.

120 Lidane  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:07:16pm

re: #83 Odahi

That's a whole lot of words to say nothing at all.

121 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:07:16pm

re: #98 Varek Raith

For reals?
Really, for reals?

Yep, that news came out a pretty long time ago. Surprised that never turned into a Rightwing Outrageous Outrage of the day. They're slipping.

122 celticdragon  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:07:46pm

From the previous thread...


re: #29 justaminute

I liked a comment that Ted Olsen made who is a 9/11 widower and former President Bush's Solicitor General made:

"...we don't want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith or for political purposes either."

Ted Olsen's wife Susan was on one of the planes flown into the towers. Do you think they will attack him too?


My Response:

Yes. Without a doubt.

The modern right has no shame, empathy or twinge of conscience. There is only tribal grievance warfare, and Ted Olsen "went RINO" the moment he helped GLBT people wrt the prop matter.

I have no doubt that somebody at Hot Air or at Malkin will accuse Olsen of cheating on his wife with a gay man just to smear him for trying to remind us that "...we don't want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith or for political purposes either."


From the comments posted above by Charles:

Olsen’s a spokesman for gay marriage?

Maybe he went gay after moslems killed his wife, yet doesn’t mind being killed by moslems himself. Thus he supports the mosque aka toilet.

I can’t figure it out.

26 posted on August 18, 2010 1:28:27 PM PDT by StopObama2012

You can't even make a caricature of this.

123 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:07:53pm

re: #100 RadicalModerate

So, you agree then that the three Christian churches (two Protestant, one Catholic), the Jewish Synagogue, the Shinto Buddhist temple that are all built within the 1/4 mile radius of ground zero that the Cordoba House is wanting to build in are all also in bad taste?

Not to mention Saint Giuliani's Cross.

Many Christians have literally and deliberately been led to believe that they own ground zero.

124 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:08:08pm

re: #108 windsagio

If Obama had said he was right, that would be pandering :p

How many times to I have to say Reid today? :D

Don't worry, I already took care of it on the last two threads today, and started to add to the list of names of people on the left against the building of the mosque.

Disgusting.

125 researchok  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:08:32pm

re: #115 windsagio

There's a particular flavor that's especially toxic, and you have to admit, it has its origins and heart in the south/southeast. I hate to be regionalist, but c'mon.

Fair enough, in the sense that the South was the feature attraction, so to speak.

All in all though, racism and other biases do not originate in one part of the country or another and then migrate. They are a sad part of the human condition.

126 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:08:33pm

re: #111 Odahi

Any number of folks who scorn and deride "creationists" would probably agree with you.

That's bullshit and you know it.

I don't know of a single person opposed to creationism who disputes the right of the supporters to build a house of worship anywhere they want. However, creationists don't get to hijack science classes unless they can come up with clear scientific evidence to support their theories.

127 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:08:48pm

re: #119 windsagio

Now, now.

Meh, these politicians who question the Wisdom™ of building this center are all acting like bigots, as far as I'm concerned.

128 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:09:00pm

re: #83 Odahi

Actually, I for one think this is a perfect location for the Civic Center. What better way to stick an finger in the eye of radical Islam than to build a center that shows the moderate perspective of Islam. But I think trying to convince you of that would be harder than trying to calculate the the final value of Pi.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:09:16pm

re: #83 Odahi

I, FOR ONE, do NOT have a problem with them building a mosque, madrassa, or "community center" wherever they can legally do so (zoning laws, fire codes, and other regulations still apply as they should for any such project). I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear. And no, I don't care WHAT religion it is.

Of course you care what religion it is.

Also, they're nowhere near ready to begin construction.

130 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:09:36pm

re: #125 researchok

I really don't wanna be dissing that whole section of the country, and it seems that we know what each other are saying, so lets leave it at that :)

131 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:10:14pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Walters just tryin' to stir some left/right wrangling up, had to be condescending in exchange :D

132 researchok  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:10:30pm

re: #130 windsagio

I really don't wanna be dissing that whole section of the country, and it seems that we know what each other are saying, so lets leave it at that :)

Three pointer.

133 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:11:20pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, now you know what I care about, too. Care to guess what church I go to, how much money I make, my race, or my weight?

134 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:11:43pm

You gotta love how suddenly it's the planners who are being "insensitive" for not bowing down to demands by bigots.

135 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:12:47pm

re: #30 blueraven

Where is your proof that a majority of 9/11 families are against this center? I have not seen any. There are several different groups within that "9/11 family" moniker.

Charles is right, you don't speak for them and they are not one monolithic bloc with one opinion.

Someone needs to slam the bigots and xenophobes with this point hard and often, because Muslims aren't one giant bloc, just as all Christians are not alike.

136 Lidane  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:12:50pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Many Christians have literally and deliberately been led to believe that they own ground zero.

Pretty much. And that's damned sad, IMO. 9/11 could have been a teachable moment about how Americans of all faiths, races, genders, and creeds died due to the fanaticism and intolerance of a small few, and how we collectively have to fight against that sort of radicalism for all our sakes.

Instead, it's been turned into a bludgeon that the bigots use to smear all Muslims as radicals and terrorists, and where they like to pretend that the only Muslims who died that day were the assholes who hijacked the planes. It's infuriating.

137 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:13:27pm

re: #122 celticdragon

The beauty of the First Amendment is that it allows extremist idiots to be their own caricature , enabling the largely rational citizens who occupy the continuum between the extremes to separate fact and truth from fiction and lies.

138 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:13:32pm

re: #136 Lidane

OT: Is your avatar from KOF?

139 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:13:57pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Meh, these politicians who question the Wisdom™ of building this center are all acting like bigots, as far as I'm concerned.

You are a breath of fresh air. I've been getting torn a new asshole (enough beers and the right person, that could be fun) on other threads for being totally piss at anyone who would side with the anti-mosque crowd. The right wing ran with this, but now, unfortunately, they are picking up support from more than just the far right, and that's the facts, Jack.

And no amount of screaming at me, or partisan pandering to ones political ideology is going to change what is simple fact.

Really, thank's for your comment, because that is exactly what I believe. Anyone supporting this outrage, or tacitly giving a pass to politicians who are supporting this outrage (Obama, can you hear me)... are responsible for spreading and fostering bigotry.

In the least, if not actual bigots themselves... they are enabling the bigotry.

140 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:14:18pm

re: #138 windsagio

OT: Is your avatar from KOF?

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

141 Lidane  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:15:06pm

re: #138 windsagio

No. It's from the Phoenix Wright series. She's a character named Franziska von Karma.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:15:12pm

re: #133 Odahi

Ah, now you know what I care about, too. Care to guess what church I go to, how much money I make, my race, or my weight?

Ah, it's the 'you can't read my mind' defense.

And yet, you seem pretty sure you can know the motivations of the Cordoba Inititiative.

143 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:15:29pm

I just read this article.

I think it's well worth the read, particularly if you still harbor antagonism toward the Park51 project. I would not recommend it if I didn't think it worth your time.

144 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:15:40pm

re: #140 Varek Raith

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

Oh its her!

I feel dumb now, should have known about that.

145 webevintage  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:16:03pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

In the least, if not actual bigots themselves... they are enabling the bigotry.

They are and seems like Howard Dean has joined them...
[Link: www.salon.com...]


is sad.

146 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:16:24pm

re: #144 windsagio

dammit ate my otehr link.
Looks like this lady, also.

147 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:16:43pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

You are a breath of fresh air. I've been getting torn a new asshole (enough beers and the right person, that could be fun) on other threads for being totally piss at anyone who would side with the anti-mosque crowd. The right wing ran with this, but now, unfortunately, they are picking up support from more than just the far right, and that's the facts, Jack.

And no amount of screaming at me, or partisan pandering to ones political ideology is going to change what is simple fact.

Really, thank's for your comment, because that is exactly what I believe. Anyone supporting this outrage, or tacitly giving a pass to politicians who are supporting this outrage (Obama, can you hear me)... are responsible for spreading and fostering bigotry.

In the least, if not actual bigots themselves... they are enabling the bigotry.

That's what I've been telling those who've gotten into a hissy fit over being "slandered" with the charge of bigotry: You're either a bigot or you're enabling them, there is no third choice.

148 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:17:19pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

Do you even remember that you've stated you were against the building of the community center, Walter?

149 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:17:24pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't care about their motivation. I simply pointed out that I think it's ironic to talk about understanding and outreach and yet ignore teh mojority who would rather it were built somewhere else.

150 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:17:24pm

re: #83 Odahi

, FR N, d NT hv prblm wth thm bldng msq, mdrss, r "cmmnt cntr" whrvr th cn lgll d s (znng lws, fr cds, nd thr rgltns stll ppl s th shld fr n sch prjct). thnk t s rnc tht th (ths wh hv bght th lnd, drwn p th blprnts, sght th bldng prmts, nd stnd rd t bgn cnstrctn) wld bld "cntr fr trch" n drct dfnc f pblc tcr nd rptd ffrts t dscssn nd cmprms. Lt thm bld t whrvr th lk. THR lck f cmpssn nd ndrstndng wll shw thrgh ld nd clr. nd n, dn't cr WHT rlgn t s.

Bigot (and possible sock) sez what?

151 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:17:26pm

re: #111 Odahi

Any number of folks who scorn and deride "creationists" would probably agree with you.

Oh, with a comment like this, has to be a sock.

152 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:17:54pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

You are a breath of fresh air. I've been getting torn a new asshole (enough beers and the right person, that could be fun) on other threads for being totally piss at anyone who would side with the anti-mosque crowd. The right wing ran with this, but now, unfortunately, they are picking up support from more than just the far right, and that's the facts, Jack.

And no amount of screaming at me, or partisan pandering to ones political ideology is going to change what is simple fact.

Really, thank's for your comment, because that is exactly what I believe. Anyone supporting this outrage, or tacitly giving a pass to politicians who are supporting this outrage (Obama, can you hear me)... are responsible for spreading and fostering bigotry.

In the least, if not actual bigots themselves... they are enabling the bigotry.

Nobody's been saying that all the people opposed to this aren't awful, at least not in any threads I've seen >>

153 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:18:05pm

re: #8 jaunte

???

In Iran about 15 years ago there used to be bath houses. If you were a guy and had your eye on a girl, you would have your mom or sister invite her to join them. Then mom or sis would report her attributes. Mom would send Dad or brother to check out sis's want-to-be husband. When there is a will there is a way.

154 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #148 Obdicut

that was then! Now its more fun to take the opposite position ;)

155 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #40 Varek Raith

I question the Wisdom™ of building a Catholic Church near a playground.
I question the Wisdom™ of building an Evangelical Church near an abortion clinic.
Funny how bigoted that sounds when it's your own religion being broadbrushed.

Right. It's all about HATE, which is entirely constitutional.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:19:02pm

re: #149 Odahi

I don't care about their motivation. I simply pointed out that I think it's ironic to talk about understanding and outreach and yet ignore teh mojority who would rather it were built somewhere else.

The majority of WHAT? Not Manhattaners, last I checked.

And let me assure you, if a majority vote were taken, I know at least four or five synagogues that would never have seen the light of day. Luckily, we didn't take a majority vote to see if it was OK.

157 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:19:17pm

re: #131 windsagio

Walters just tryin' to stir some left/right wrangling up, had to be condescending in exchange :D

Stir... hey cake brain, this subject is certainly a viable issue to discuss, evidenced by the number of threads that LGF has had on the subject. But guess what Sherlock, the right wing ran with this to start with, but you may not have noticed, but those with independent political persuasions have jumped on board in a majority number, and, now we even see politicians on the left (and as per the CNN poll, a majority of Democrat voters) also jumping on board this bigoted bandwagon.

I'm not doing anything other than joining the debate. I'm certainly not making up these news articles. I'm certainly not forcing these politicians to make these stupid remarks, and I'm certainly not going to ignore all parties involved in the issues.

Take your partisan blinders off, this thing is bleeding on you and you haven't even noticed.

158 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:19:23pm

re: #15 CuriousLurker

Exactly what I was thinking.

This all must be very painful for you to see. I am so sorry.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:19:56pm

re: #155 Spare O'Lake

Right. It's all about HATE, which is entirely constitutional.

True, but it also has no legal standing.

160 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:20:17pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

You are a breath of fresh air. I've been getting torn a new asshole (enough beers and the right person, that could be fun) on other threads for being totally piss at anyone who would side with the anti-mosque crowd. The right wing ran with this, but now, unfortunately, they are picking up support from more than just the far right, and that's the facts, Jack.

And no amount of screaming at me, or partisan pandering to ones political ideology is going to change what is simple fact.

Really, thank's for your comment, because that is exactly what I believe. Anyone supporting this outrage, or tacitly giving a pass to politicians who are supporting this outrage (Obama, can you hear me)... are responsible for spreading and fostering bigotry.

In the least, if not actual bigots themselves... they are enabling the bigotry.

Well said.

161 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:20:18pm

re: #44 Obdicut

So you missed the people saying they'd use eminent domain to prevent the community center-- why do you keep calling it a mosque?-- from being built?

How'd you miss that?

Dismissed as bullshit long ago.

162 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:20:29pm

re: #157 Walter L. Newton

Mmhmm.

163 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:21:08pm

re: #161 Spare O'Lake

Dismissed as bullshit long ago.

Oh, that's very convenient for you.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:21:50pm

re: #161 Spare O'Lake

Dismissed as bullshit long ago.

So I guess we're ready to break ground!

165 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:21:58pm

Gotta run, interesting discussion.

166 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:21:59pm

re: #83 Odahi

I, FOR ONE, do NOT have a problem with them building a mosque, madrassa, or "community center" wherever they can legally do so (zoning laws, fire codes, and other regulations still apply as they should for any such project) people drawing Mohammed cartoons. I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" would continue to draw these pictures in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever draw whatever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear. And no, I don't care WHAT religion it is.

167 celticdragon  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:22:22pm

re: #136 Lidane

Pretty much. And that's damned sad, IMO. 9/11 could have been a teachable moment about how Americans of all faiths, races, genders, and creeds died due to the fanaticism and intolerance of a small few, and how we collectively have to fight against that sort of radicalism for all our sakes.

Instead, it's been turned into a bludgeon that the bigots use to smear all Muslims as radicals and terrorists, and where they like to pretend that the only Muslims who died that day were the assholes who hijacked the planes. It's infuriating.

The radical Islamists and Wahabbists get the most attention. When the Average American sees a Muslim of any sort on TV, it is usually in the context of a news story with lots of dead people (also often Muslims as well).

Ergo, negative association bleeds over and poisons everything relating to Islam, no matter how tangential or unfair it may be.

168 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:22:37pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Do you even remember that you've stated you were against the building of the community center, Walter?

I was certainly against it at first, until I started to delve deeper into the issue. And my statement for weeks now has been very supportive of the constitutional rights that are being challenged here. I've changed my mind... so?

169 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:22:44pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

So I guess we're ready to break ground!

What's stopping them?

I really gotta run.

170 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:22:45pm

re: #133 Odahi

Ah, now you know what I care about, too. Care to guess what church I go to, how much money I make, my race, or my weight?

No, but I know you're acting a jackass and a blowhard...

171 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:24:05pm

re: #101 Odahi

Lets us see.

SHARIF EL-GAMAL ET AL "WON'T BUDGE" OFF GROUND ZERO MOSQUE SITE

GENOCIDAL HAMAS BACKS OBAMA AND RAUF ON GROUND ZERO MOSQUE: 'MUSLIMS HAVE TO BUILD IT' "WE HAVE TO BUILD EVERYWHERE"

and that is just the harpies blog. I am sure you can find more if you chose to look.

By the way, you are soon to negative numbers before the day is done and I thank the Deities above that you ARE NOT from Idaho.

172 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:24:57pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

Heh. Yeah. You go ahead and make your list of those on the left that are against the mosque. That's completely non-partisan of you.

What a load.

173 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:25:40pm

This makes my head hurt.
BBL.
:)

174 webevintage  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:26:34pm

re: #145 webevintage

They are and seems like Howard Dean has joined them...
[Link: www.salon.com...]

is sad.

Hmmmmm, just read over on Balloon Juice that Greenwald got that from Breitbart TV...so yeah, consider the source until verification.

175 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:27:07pm

re: #145 webevintage

They are and seems like Howard Dean has joined them...
[Link: www.salon.com...]

is sad.

Yes... and I guess, since Howard Dean is not running for any office that I know of... then in his case, we can call him just a plain vanilla bigot, and not let him off the hook by saying he is pandering.

176 elizajane  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:27:57pm

re: #83 Odahi

I, FOR ONE, do NOT have a problem with them building a mosque, madrassa, or "community center" wherever they can legally do so (zoning laws, fire codes, and other regulations still apply as they should for any such project). I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear. And no, I don't care WHAT religion it is.

"Direct defiance of public outcry"? The community center plans were made and OK'd before the damned outcry was whipped up by Geller and her minions. So they should turn back now and say "sorry, if you don't like it we'll just pick up our crayons and go home"?
Honestly, this makes me cross.

177 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:28:37pm

re: #111 Odahi

You obviously missed the multiple sarc tags. I was in no way actually advocating the banning of construction of any Religious buildings. But that isn't surprising since you seem unable to understand why the out cry over this Civic Center is just a bunch of dreck.

178 harrylook  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:28:55pm

Who is this Olsen traitor? He totally need to refudiate his disrespect of the 9/11 families.

////

179 Odahi  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:28:56pm

re: #150 talon_262

Thank you.

180 webevintage  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:28:58pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Yes... and I guess, since Howard Dean is not running for any office that I know of... then in his case, we can call him just a plain vanilla bigot, and not let him off the hook by saying he is pandering.

Ummm no, if that is Dean then he is, as you said, "enabling the bigotry".

181 celticdragon  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:29:02pm

re: #111 Odahi

Any number of folks who scorn and deride "creationists" would probably agree with you.

You win my daily "Intelligent Design Obviously Did Not Account For You Award".

Congratulations!

182 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:29:39pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Heh. Yeah. You go ahead and make your list of those on the left that are against the mosque. That's completely non-partisan of you.

What a load.

No it's not partisan of me in the least, since I have stated over and over that this whole thing started with the right wing pushing the issue, I've even made that comment again (a number of times) on this thread itself. So, I've already indicted to whole right, but I suspect there is room for those of other political persuasion on the list... yep... seems like they are just lining up to jump on this list.

That's my doing?

183 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:29:41pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

I wouldn't say pandering is 'off the hook.' It's profiting by someone's ignorant fear, which is worse.

184 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:29:51pm

re: #175 Walter L. Newton

Yes... and I guess, since Howard Dean is not running for any office that I know of... then in his case, we can call him just a plain vanilla bigot, and not let him off the hook by saying he is pandering.

Grumble. I knew this was coming.

185 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Do you even remember that you've stated you were against the building of the community center, Walter?

Give Walter a break, I met some Muslims in Oklahoma at first questioning the location. They've been here for more than 3o years but seeing what Walter has they've changed their minds too.

186 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:30:10pm

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

This all must be very painful for you to see. I am so sorry.

Thank you—you're a sweetheart. {{LVQ}}}

It's never been easy being Muslim in America, not even before 9/11. It was really bad for a while afterward, but somehow this is worse... I guess because I could understand the anger in the immediate aftermath, but this it more... difficult.

It has been painful, but the bigot brigade and the hypocritical, pandering, craven, opportunistic politicians ON BOTH SIDES have now pushed me past the pain and straight into righteous outrage.

187 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:31:13pm

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

How about Manzanar? Is this not exactly the kind of paranoia that led to internment? And BTW we did grab and intern a bunch of people here with legit visas or a process underway.

It was actually worse than that. Natural born American citizens, nisei, were interned along with immigrants, citizens and non-citizens alike. In fact, 62% of the internees were American citizens.

188 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:31:44pm

There is a certain consistency to the wingnuts.

The thing that strikes me the most about this is not just the unbridled hatred or the non-sense of the remarks, but the abject immaturity of them.

Like any pack of viscous seventh graders, they are simply trying to be as hurtful, insensitive and crass as possible.

It seems that calling someone gay is the largest insult they can muster. But even in their tiny minds, they know that to be truly hurtful, they have to make it personal. So they talk about the man's murdered wife.

This is a common theme amongst them. It is not just a collapse of civility, but a self righteous whine of the utterly immature and spoiled. They will go off on how correct they were to be so savage.

He went gay, after his wife was killed... How very enlightened, these "defenders of liberty are when they shriek to deny Americans their rights and to abuse those who actually do defend American rights and liberties - even Republicans whose wives were murdered by terrorists.

For all of the tough talk though, face to face, to insult a man's dead wife is to ask for a beating. Anyone with basic decency understands that. And no, that is not a call for violence, that is a reminder of the basic social contract that we were all brought up with as Americans. There shouldn't be any question to it at all.

The sort of guy who makes such remarks gets popped on the chin. Everyone used to get that as a way to instill and enforce basic civility.

189 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:32:11pm

re: #180 webevintage

Ummm no, if that is Dean then he is, as you said, "enabling the bigotry".

I see... ok... I can go along with that... now it seems we have three different categories that we can slot anti-mosque supporters into... outright bigots, bigot enablers and pandering.

I hate all these labels, but I'll admit, it's hard to keep all these anti-mosque supporters straight when they are coming from so many different political persuasions.

190 webevintage  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:32:39pm

bbl

191 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:32:53pm

re: #136 Lidane

Pretty much. And that's damned sad, IMO. 9/11 could have been a teachable moment about how Americans of all faiths, races, genders, and creeds died due to the fanaticism and intolerance of a small few, and how we collectively have to fight against that sort of radicalism for all our sakes.

Instead, it's been turned into a bludgeon that the bigots use to smear all Muslims as radicals and terrorists, and where they like to pretend that the only Muslims who died that day were the assholes who hijacked the planes. It's infuriating.

Only Christian innocents died on 911, all those messiah-killing, murder-cap wearing Jews got mystery Mossad phone calls that morning and never showed up for work. Also 911 was God's wrath against a growing tolerance for the gays.

Interesting that Hustler Magazine Company Inc. v. Falwell would seem to define everyone's rights in this matter. Even if the purpose of the Cordoba House was to incite (and that isn't its purpose) it would be protected, and the bigoted assholes protesting it have a right to be cautionary harbingers of an intollerant, tribalist, distopian society.

192 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:34:17pm

re: #185 justaminute

The problem is that he's taking these positions intentionally, rather than out of belief. He has the right to do it, but others have the right to call him on it.

Also he's making up people defending 'those on the left who are against it', as far as I can tell such people are mythical on LGF.

193 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:35:10pm

re: #185 justaminute

Give Walter a break, I met some Muslims in Oklahoma at first questioning the location. They've been here for more than 3o years but seeing what Walter has they've changed their minds too.

I have changed my mind. My first reaction was I "personally don't like the idea but they have every legal right to do it." But as this issue developed, and I watched a lot of the right pick up on this and start turning it into a three ring circus, complete with all kinds of Christian dominist sort of statements... that was the end of it for me.

194 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:35:38pm

re: #186 CuriousLurker

Thank you—you're a sweetheart. {{LVQ}}}

It's never been easy being Muslim in America, not even before 9/11. It was really bad for a while afterward, but somehow this is worse... I guess because I could understand the anger in the immediate aftermath, but this it more... difficult.

It has been painful, but the bigot brigade and the hypocritical, pandering, craven, opportunistic politicians ON BOTH SIDES have now pushed me past the pain and straight into righteous outrage.

CL - It's become sheer lunacy.

One can be pro-Israel and not anti-Muslim or anti-Islam.

It seems to me, as I look back here at LGF, and also at what's going on today regarding this project, that a lot of folks have morphed from being pro-Israel into being simply anti-Islam. I, personally, don't get it.

A moderate view.
I just read and really enjoyed this column.

195 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:36:50pm

re: #180 webevintage

Ummm no, if that is Dean then he is, as you said, "enabling the bigotry".

Honestly, I don't know what is worse. At least the bigots are speaking their minds, to use the term loosely.

196 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:37:53pm

re: #195 Nimed

Bad in different ways ;)

Not being a bigot but intentionally spreading bigotry >>> being a bigot ~= giving in to bigots.

197 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:38:13pm

re: #194 reine.de.tout

CL - It's become sheer lunacy.

One can be pro-Israel and not anti-Muslim or anti-Islam.

It seems to me, as I look back here at LGF, and also at what's going on today regarding this project, that a lot of folks have morphed from being pro-Israel into being simply anti-Islam. I, personally, don't get it.

A moderate view.
I just read and really enjoyed this column.

Thank you!

198 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:38:18pm

re: #196 windsagio

PS I'm tired of the term bigot too, but what do we call them otherwise? After all "Islam is not a Race" >>

199 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:38:44pm

re: #133 Odahi

Ah, now you know what I care about, too. Care to guess what church I go to, how much money I make, my race, or my weight?

You made it clear that you care that a mosque will be built at Park51 by mentioning

I think it is ironic that they (those who have bought the land, drawn up the blueprints, sought the building permits, and stand ready to begin construction) would build a "center for outreach" in direct defiance of public outcry and repeated efforts at discussion and compromise. Let them build it wherever they like. THEIR lack of compassion and understanding will show through loud and clear.


There's no need to get pissy about it. Just be mindful about the words you use.

200 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:38:55pm

re: #192 windsagio

The problem is that he's taking these positions intentionally, rather than out of belief. He has the right to do it, but others have the right to call him on it.

Also he's making up people defending 'those on the left who are against it', as far as I can tell such people are mythical on LGF.

Well let's see. Up to the point that we saw Democrats like Reid speak out against the mosque, anyone speaking out against the mosque was a bigot (which I agree on). Now, suddenly, we have categories of those who are against the mosque. I guess everyone on the right who are against the mosque are still bigots, but those of other political persuasion are, let's see, I've been told that "hes' pandering." or enabling the bigots.

I say Reid and Dean are bigots, just like all the rest of them. Agree?

201 bratwurst  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:39:08pm

re: #29 Nick Schroeder

I prefer "Ground Zero Islamofascist 9/11 Victory Terror Dome".

Rush was calling it the "Ha-mosque" today.

SATIRE!

202 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:39:33pm

re: #195 Nimed

Honestly, I don't know what is worse. At least the bigots are speaking their minds, to use the term loosely.

And Dean is not speaking his mind? What do you make his statement out to be, speaking someone else's mind?

203 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:40:00pm

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

I think you're massively (and intentionally) oversimplifying a complex situation.

Or are you saying that pandering to protect your position is the same as being filled with hate?

204 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:40:19pm

re: #198 windsagio

PS I'm tired of the term bigot too, but what do we call them otherwise? After all "Islam is not a Race" >>

Well, that's been the popular moniker up to now. Why soften it or change it now? I wonder?

205 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:40:44pm

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

What I really think you're doing (becausee I'm psychic remember?) is playing off the term 'bigot' which is becoming tiring :P

206 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:40:55pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

Overuse is a bitch.

207 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:41:28pm

re: #192 windsagio

. . .
Also he's making up people defending 'those on the left who are against it', as far as I can tell such people are mythical on LGF.

I (crap) really do not want to agree with you, but I believe you're correct, I have not seen anyone defending the left who are against this.

What I've seen is different motives ascribed for the antagonism from the left, than from the right, but honestly, I believe the different motives exist and are accurate.

The end result is the same (antagonism toward the idea), and that's overall wrong. But the various politicians involved are coming from different places in their resistance to the idea, IMO.

208 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:41:39pm

re: #149 Odahi

I don't care about their motivation. I simply pointed out that I think it's ironic to talk about understanding and outreach and yet ignore teh mojority who would rather it were built somewhere else.

The so-called majority are relying of fear, prejudice and ignorance as their basis for opposing the community center. Irrational emotions are holding sway right now.

209 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:42:03pm

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

Well let's see. Up to the point that we saw Democrats like Reid speak out against the mosque, anyone speaking out against the mosque was a bigot (which I agree on). Now, suddenly, we have categories of those who are against the mosque. I guess everyone on the right who are against the mosque are still bigots, but those of other political persuasion are, let's see, I've been told that "hes' pandering." or enabling the bigots.

I say Reid and Dean are bigots, just like all the rest of them. Agree?

They're still bigots, Reid included. There aren't suddenly categories, unless you wish to dissemble in defiance of reason.

However, the FACT remains that the impetus behind this little movement to prevent construction of park51 is entirely conservative. that Reid jumped on the bandwagon is much to his discredit, and makes him a bigot as well as a panderer.

Enough dissembling.

210 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:42:23pm

re: #201 bratwurst

Rush was calling it the "Ha-mosque" today.

SATIRE!

I can't listen to him, but I get his daily email. In it, he spelled that "The Hamasque".

211 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:42:45pm

re: #207 reine.de.tout

I (crap) really do not want to agree with you, but I believe you're correct, I have not seen anyone defending the left who are against this.

What I've seen is different motives ascribed for the antagonism from the left, than from the right, but honestly, I believe the different motives exist and are accurate.

The end result is the same (antagonism toward the idea), and that's overall wrong. But the various politicians involved are coming from different places in their resistance to the idea, IMO.

But everyone on the right are coming from the same one hive mind reason? Bigots.

212 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:43:11pm

re: #209 Fozzie Bear

They're still bigots, Reid included. There aren't suddenly categories, unless you wish to dissemble in defiance of reason.

However, the FACT remains that the impetus behind this little movement to prevent construction of park51 is entirely conservative. that Reid jumped on the bandwagon is much to his discredit, and makes him a bigot as well as a panderer.

Enough dissembling.

Don't forget Howard Dean :)

213 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:43:36pm

re: #149 Odahi

I don't care about their motivation. I simply pointed out that I think it's ironic to talk about understanding and outreach and yet ignore teh mojority who would rather it were built somewhere else.

All of the local legal requirements for this project have been met.

The majority opinion on this (whatever it is, pro or con) from the rest of the country doesn't amount to a hill of beans!

It's been stated; it's been heard; it's time to quit, and allow this thing to proceed without further harassment.

214 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:44:09pm

re: #209 Fozzie Bear

It's not dissembling. The word means something, and it has everything to do with prejudice, hate, and fear against the 'other'.

215 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:44:31pm

re: #209 Fozzie Bear

They're still bigots, Reid included. There aren't suddenly categories, unless you wish to dissemble in defiance of reason.

However, the FACT remains that the impetus behind this little movement to prevent construction of park51 is entirely conservative. that Reid jumped on the bandwagon is much to his discredit, and makes him a bigot as well as a panderer.

Enough dissembling.

I agree. But I haven't been doing the disassembling. I've just been trying to understand why there has been a plethora of different terms starting to be used as we see certain people come on board against the mosque. It's getting confusing. You can't tell a bigot without a program.

216 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:44:38pm

re: #192 windsagio

The problem is that he's taking these positions intentionally, rather than out of belief. He has the right to do it, but others have the right to call him on it.

Also he's making up people defending 'those on the left who are against it', as far as I can tell such people are mythical on LGF.

At first it wasn't mythical with liberals on other sites and honestly people that I know in OK that aren't anti-Muslim (my best friend who is married to an Iranian.) But when you discuss it and most are not on political sites or they just what the news, they change their minds.

217 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:44:40pm

re: #207 reine.de.tout

<3 Reine

218 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:44:40pm

re: #211 Walter L. Newton

But everyone on the right are coming from the same one hive mind reason? Bigots.

Who knows why the entirety of the impetus behiond the "stop the mosque" movement lies in the right wing? Why is a separate question. The FACT is that this started in right wing circles.

Any Dems that jumped on the bigot bandwagon are jumping onto a ship that irrefutably set sail from right wing ports.

219 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:45:37pm

World's biggest lava lamp

220 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:45:49pm

re: #215 Walter L. Newton

I agree. But I haven't been doing the disassembling. I've just been trying to understand why there has been a plethora of different terms starting to be used as we see certain people come on board against the mosque. It's getting confusing. You can't tell a bigot without a program.

Name one person here who has defended Reid's statement, or Dean's, who you could call a liberal without failing the laugh test. One.

221 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:45:54pm

Way OT
A special invitation for local (SoCal) lizards, on my latest Page.

222 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:46:13pm

re: #211 Walter L. Newton

But everyone on the right are coming from the same one hive mind reason? Bigots.

I don't know.
All I know is that I have decided to make that assumption, because those on the right seem to be taking their marching orders and are in cahoots with the bigots who began yelling about this to begin with.

On the left? I'm sure there are some bigots. But their response is coming from a need to pander, right now, or risk losing political points, not from a position of bigotry.

Either way, it doesn't matter, does it?

The fact is the developers of this project are faced with PR and legal bills they really ought not to be faced with, because of the hue & cry over this perfectly legal and constitutionally protected project.

223 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:46:20pm

re: #218 Fozzie Bear

It started on the right because there's a long tradition of fueling nativism and fear amongst conservative political pundits. Like a 40 year tradition.

224 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:46:31pm

re: #218 Fozzie Bear

Who knows why the entirety of the impetus behiond the "stop the mosque" movement lies in the right wing? Why is a separate question. The FACT is that this started in right wing circles.

Any Dems that jumped on the bigot bandwagon are jumping onto a ship that irrefutably set sail from right wing ports.

Of course it did (and I've said that numerous times). Interesting to see who has jumped on the bandwagon.

225 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:47:41pm

re: #222 reine.de.tout

I don't know.
All I know is that I have decided to make that assumption, because those on the right seem to be taking their marching orders and are in cahoots with the bigots who began yelling about this to begin with.

On the left? I'm sure there are some bigots. But their response is coming from a need to pander, right now, or risk losing political points, not from a position of bigotry.

Either way, it doesn't matter, does it?

The fact is the developers of this project are faced with PR and legal bills they really ought not to be faced with, because of the hue & cry over this perfectly legal and constitutionally protected project.

Exactly!

On the really important things (like what's basicly right) we seem to agree, and that makes me happy ;)

226 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:48:16pm

re: #195 Nimed

Honestly, I don't know what is worse. At least the bigots are speaking their minds, to use the term loosely.

At the moment I'm much angrier & disgusted at the politicians (current & former) who are pandering to the bigots than I am at the ignorance of those whose emotions are being toyed with by the same, and that's primarily because the politicians are in a position to do actual serious damage.

227 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:48:18pm

Jugs

228 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:48:44pm

re: #217 windsagio

<3 Reine

What's that?
You cussin' me out?
:-)

229 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:49:24pm

Jugs

230 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:49:29pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

Name one person here who has defended Reid's statement, or Dean's, who you could call a liberal without failing the laugh test. One.

When I refer to defending Reid, I am specifically, and only, referring to claims that he is pandering, not a bigot. I say he is a bigot. I say Dean is a bigot. As far as I am concerned, if anyone doesn't agree with that label, then they are defending him.

Both of them are bigots along with the WHOLE RIGHT WING.

231 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:49:43pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

And Dean is not speaking his mind? What do you make his statement out to be, speaking someone else's mind?

I can't obviously read Dean's mind, but you're knocking in the wrong door if you think I'm giving Dean a pass on this. To the extent that it's useful to make a moral distinction between true bigots and those who use bigoted arguments for political expediency, I believe the latter to be even more revolting.

232 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:50:04pm

re: #226 CuriousLurker

At the moment I'm much angrier & disgusted at the politicians (current & former) who are pandering to the bigots than I am at the ignorance of those whose emotions are being toyed with by the same, and that's primarily because the politicians are in a position to do actual serious damage.

I agree completely. Thanks for that statement.

233 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:50:12pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

A little heavy handed, no? >>

234 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:50:33pm

re: #228 reine.de.tout

I think he's giving you a compliment.

235 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:50:44pm

re: #231 Nimed

I can't obviously read Dean's mind, but you're knocking in the wrong door if you think I'm giving Dean a pass on this. To the extent that it's useful to make a moral distinction between true bigots and those who use bigoted arguments for political expediency, I believe the latter to be even more revolting.

Oh, bless you!
Bless you!
Wish I would have thought to say it first!

236 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:50:55pm

re: #234 prairiefire

I think he's giving you a compliment.

Never know.
LOL.

237 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:52:07pm

Jugs

238 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:52:21pm

re: #225 windsagio

Exactly!

On the really important things (like what's basicly right) we seem to agree, and that makes me happy ;)

Tried to tell you, underneath that icky conservative shell, really, I've got a decent heart! Been trying to tell you. But would you listen? Nooooooo . . . Well, maybe you did.

239 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:52:55pm

re: #234 prairiefire

It's a heart!

240 Digital Display  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:53:09pm

I don't understand this issue..Fox pushes it every 5 minutes for a couple of weeks now..Stirring up passions and outrage..
So who the effen cares how close or far away the Mosque is from Ground zero..When People get all freaked out about strip joints, Fast food joints and 10 million Sq.Ft. of new commercial office space near ground zero..I'll buy into the purity of intentions..Till then It's all manufactured BS...
I blame Fox for starting this firestorm...It's all about ratings

241 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:53:17pm

re: #239 windsagio

It's a heart!

Oh, OK.
Looked a bit like an ass to me.
*snicker*

242 deranged cat  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:53:53pm

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

I find that the wingnuts love to spew out hatred and lies, but are incredibly, incredibly sensitive and lash out in big numbers when someone makes fun of them.

243 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:54:04pm

re: #241 reine.de.tout

Oh, OK.
Looked a bit like an ass to me.
*snicker*

Bwahahhaha!

Well you know, they say that's why the heart became a symbol of love, because it looks like coming at an ass from behind.

/just don't think about spades then.

244 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:54:49pm

re: #239 windsagio

It's a heart!

I thought it was boobies.

245 mr.fusion  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:55:17pm

Ya know, I started out watching this thing just not really caring.....clearly they have the constitutional right to build there, but if they ended up moving it then so be it......

I'm not really a big "slippery slope" kind of guy....but this is one of those instances. We've seen the bigot brigade in TN & CA try to ban mosque's from being built in their towns, and if we give in at NYC, where does it stop? There is symbolism involved with Park51 but it has nothing to do with the symbolism the detractors are so concerned about. It's about freedom...the very freedom that individuals like Sarah & Newt are so convinced the extremists "hate us for." They HAVE to build it there....we all have to make a stand on this. We have to prove that freedom of religion means FREEDOM of religion. Period

And I'm so sick of the argument, "of course they have the right, but it's just wrong!" Give me a friggin' break. I feel the same way about flag burning. I would never condone someone burning the American flag and it makes me sick when I see it happening....but nobody ever better try to take away my right to do so. Same goes for those who fly the confederate flag .... I would never fly one of those bad boys, but if they try to legislate against it I'd be screaming bloody murder......

And the friggin' lame way the detractors claim victimization on this...."Oh, we're supposed to be tolerant of Muslims, but why aren't they being tolerant of us!" Boo freaking hoo.....I'm so over this BS, which is all it is.

246 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:55:54pm

Car with chick

247 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:56:43pm

re: #243 windsagio

Bwahahhaha!

Well you know, they say that's why the heart became a symbol of love, because it looks like coming at an ass from behind.

/just don't think about spades then.

Oh, geez.

Our priest told a story once, about a young boy asked to draw a picture of his church, what it was like to be in church.

And the boy drew something like this:
3 3 3 3 3
Only with the open side facing up.

Apparently, all he could see in church was the grownups behinds. So that's what he drew. LOL.

248 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:57:34pm

re: #246 Ojoe

Car with chick

Ew.
That's a car with Britney!
Ew.

249 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:58:20pm

re: #227 Ojoe

re: #229 Ojoe

re: #237 Ojoe

re: #246 Ojoe

Are we boring you much? :-)

250 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:58:44pm

"Windy throws up his hands."
All this time I've been thinking that symbol was boobs.

251 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:59:00pm

re: #229 Ojoe

Jugs

Ah, now that's stacked...

//

252 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:59:12pm

Red Bull's P-38

253 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:59:55pm

re: #250 prairiefire

"Windy throws up his hands."
All this time I've been thinking that symbol was boobs.

And me thinking it was an ass.
hahahaha!

254 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:02pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

Frankly, i'm MORE disgusted with Reid and Dean than with idiots who actually believe this crap.

255 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:06pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Did they ever find the Red Bull MIG that went down over the Everglades?

256 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:31pm

Too funny.

257 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:38pm

Is anyone else watching MSNBC? The last of our combat troops are leaving Iraq, now! They seem to be the only ones covering this.

258 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:47pm

re: #254 Fozzie Bear

Frankly, i'm MORE disgusted with Reid and Dean than with idiots who actually believe this crap.

I can go along with that.

259 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:00:47pm

Dante, available for avatar.

260 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:01:47pm

re: #241 reine.de.tout

Oh, OK.
Looked a bit like an ass to me.
*snicker*



There's a reason for that!

261 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:01:56pm

re: #253 reine.de.tout

And me thinking it was an ass.
hahahaha!

I thought you were being mooned!

262 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:02:42pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Red Bull's P-38

Now that is the hottest looking plane ever, IMO. Either an early model or a different engine... the nacelles are so sleek!

263 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:02:49pm

re: #261 wrenchwench

You guys are so mean, I think I'm gonna have to cry :(

264 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:03:02pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

I can go along with that.

See, when I say they are pandering, it's not to lighten the moral load. I think pandering to bigots if you are not yourself one of them is WORSE than merely being ignorant.

265 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:03:03pm

re: #255 Bubblehead II

Hadn't heard it went down.
Red Bull Mig

266 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:03:45pm

re: #260 Fozzie Bear


There's a reason for that!

OMG.
Now testicles!
We've gone far afield of the thread topic, I think.
LOL.

267 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:03:58pm

re: #263 windsagio

You guys are so mean, I think I'm gonna have to cry :(

We're not mean, we're just ignorant. Emoticonically challenged. :::)

268 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:04:31pm

re: #264 Fozzie Bear

See, when I say they are pandering, it's not to lighten the moral load. I think pandering to bigots if you are not yourself one of them is WORSE than merely being ignorant.

This forever

Sometimes dumb people simply can't help it. Politicans can help it. These are people TRYING to create more stupidity and evil and viciousness. Intentionally. For a job. For a paycheck. For their own power.

269 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:04:38pm

re: #267 wrenchwench

We're not mean, we're just ignorant. Emoticonically challenged. :::)

I just call it "old".

270 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:04:50pm

re: #267 wrenchwench

This is boobs:

(.)(.)

271 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:05:25pm

re: #257 blueraven

Is anyone else watching MSNBC? The last of our combat troops are leaving Iraq, now! They seem to be the only ones covering this.

It sure as shit doesn't follow Fox's narrative hah

"Wars! Only covered when Republicans are commander in chief."

272 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:05:29pm

re: #270 windsagio

There's a good one for 'penis' too, but I think I'll spare you folks that one ;)

273 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:05:54pm

re: #272 windsagio

There's a good one for 'penis' too, but I think I'll spare you folks that one ;)

Thank you kindly.

274 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:05:55pm

re: #271 WindUpBird

They'll cover disasters, give them some credit!

275 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:06:08pm

re: #257 blueraven

Is anyone else watching MSNBC? The last of our combat troops are leaving Iraq, now! They seem to be the only ones covering this.

Let me guess: They're not fleeing by helicopter from the embassy roof.
Someday, when I'm ready, I might write about how my time in Iraq changed my view of Islam and the Islamic world, though definitely NOT of terrorists and dictators. It was a fortunate thing that this site's rejection of anti-Muslim hate-speech happened to coincide with my return or I probably wouldn't be here anymore.

276 theheat  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:06:21pm

Pretty obvious how the wingnuts are handling any dissent within the GOP party. They pile on more hate, let their knees jerk a little faster and higher each time, and plow forward with their agenda to turn the US into some weirdass fascist, elitist, racist, creationist, dominionist, homophobic, misogynist, Christian theocracy, complete with a shiny new cherry picked Constitution.

In light of this, and how mainstream it's become, I have to wonder how many people are going to shut their eyes and vote GOP. In other words, how many people think it's okay to go ahead and throw gasoline on their fire by supporting the very same people who go along with this kind of insanity?

How much more of this needs to come out in the open before people just say no? I'm still seeing a lot of denial about what the GOP is right now, not the far-fetched notion of what it might become. This isn't some tiny minority of extremists, it's the core of the party. These are the people speaking for an entire party, and they're all shit fucking nuts.

This is not maybe perhaps might gonna happen. This is your GOP, right now.

277 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:07:04pm

WUB: What time Karaoke? Might have an extra guest coming ;)

278 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:07:05pm

re: #270 windsagio

"Moon Equipped"Moon Eyes

BBL

279 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:08:09pm

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

Well let's see. Up to the point that we saw Democrats like Reid speak out against the mosque, anyone speaking out against the mosque was a bigot (which I agree on). Now, suddenly, we have categories of those who are against the mosque. I guess everyone on the right who are against the mosque are still bigots, but those of other political persuasion are, let's see, I've been told that "hes' pandering." or enabling the bigots.

I say Reid and Dean are bigots, just like all the rest of them. Agree?

Sure!

280 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:08:35pm

re: #277 windsagio

WUB: What time Karaoke? Might have an extra guest coming ;)

I'll confer with my compatriots and get back to you

281 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:09:07pm

By the way, its the most fun when we can be lighthearted about our differences, some of which are really extreme. So thank you to you-know-who :D

282 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:09:23pm

Any big pol (R or D) from the west coast going off on the Mosque? I should research that.

283 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:09:26pm

re: #276 theheat

You might join the Modern Whigs if you don't like what the GOP has become.

Ah, BBL.

284 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:10:05pm

re: #186 CuriousLurker

Thank you—you're a sweetheart. {{LVQ}}}

It's never been easy being Muslim in America, not even before 9/11. It was really bad for a while afterward, but somehow this is worse... I guess because I could understand the anger in the immediate aftermath, but this it more... difficult.

It has been painful, but the bigot brigade and the hypocritical, pandering, craven, opportunistic politicians ON BOTH SIDES have now pushed me past the pain and straight into righteous outrage.

Try growing up being the only Jewish boy in class, in an area where the graffiti is "Jesus Saves." I am as firm on this issue as I am because I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end.

I am not saying that all Christians give us grief in this country.

I am not saying that all on the left give us grief in this country.

I am not saying that all Muslims give us grief in this country.

Like everyone else, they are mostly good people - neither sinners nor saints, meaning no particular harm.

But, I remember being a little boy. It was shortly after my grandfather had died on a Sunday, two days after his funeral. The older lady in the white pastel dress came to the door to tell us the "good news." For a while, the
an evangelical Church in the area, would send out people to canvas all the Jewish homes.

My mother would usually be very polite to them.

That day, the woman at the door was was particularly pushy. My mother, deeply in mourning, looked at her pleadingly and said, "please, now is not a good time, my father just died."

The perky Jesus lady turned her head to the side and said, "Ohhh, I'm so sorry, It must be so hard to know he is suffering in hell right now. I'll pray for you."

My mother slammed the door and began to sob.

From the outside I heard, "How dare you be so rude! You, and your children will go to hell too!"

I don't like people who make mom sob.

I remember being 13 and facing 5 boys who got it into their heads that Jews were weaklings and couldn't fight. I remember my father beaming at my black eye and split lip, remarking how much worse the other boys looked.

However welcoming most are, and most truly are welcoming, things like that, and all the non-malicious but ignorant remarks that are so ubiquitous, you develop a sort of shell. It becomes ingrained to not try to stick out too much. That shell is the worst part of all. It is a self imposed thing as a result to all of the pressure - real or only perceived.

How easy it is to become "ohhh so enlightened and atheist" in college. after all, religion was the source of much pain. Why not do away with all of it?

Eventually, in college, I came to realize the difference between being there philosophically and being there out of weariness. I found myself embracing my faith and my heritage.

It was then that I learned what an act of open defiance it is to wear a kippah in public and to be publicly Jewish. Random people come up to tell you their opinions on Israel for instance. Those opinions are usually based on a left wing perception of Israel that is about as fair to her as Fox is to Obama. Since I am on a campus, there are stories I could tell of interactions with various Muslim student, who were recently fired up by some particularly harsh anti-Israel speech at the MSA.

In it's way, it is just as smug, self righteous and ignorant as the wingnuts.

And then, of course, I can look at the history.

For all of that, we Jews have it wonderful in America compared to just about any other place.

So, this is where I say to you, that I get it. I get it completely how this must make you feel, and I am sorry, so very sorry that you have to see these cretins abuse you.

285 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:10:26pm

re: #282 WindUpBird

Regionalist!

PS: Dino Rossi punted

And he's a republican!

286 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:11:31pm

re: #275 Shiplord Kirel

Let me guess: They're not fleeing by helicopter from the embassy roof.
Someday, when I'm ready, I might write about how my time in Iraq changed my view of Islam and the Islamic world, though definitely NOT of terrorists and dictators. It was a fortunate thing that this site's rejection of anti-Muslim hate-speech happened to coincide with my return or I probably wouldn't be here anymore.

I hope you do. My son is in the military (flight school w/Navy) and I would really like to read your thoughts.

287 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:11:32pm

re: #273 reine.de.tout

Thank you kindly.

I think we boomers are being emoti-conned. How am I to really know what all that means? Bad enough we need the urban dictionary. At which point I reach for the Bourbon.

288 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:11:44pm

re: #281 windsagio

By the way, its the most fun when we can be lighthearted about our differences, some of which are really extreme. So thank you to you-know-who :D

Fuck you (he says so lightheartedly).

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:11:54pm

Barbara Boxer doesn't take the bait:

Fiorina's opponent, Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer, said the mosque was an issue
Advertisement
to be decided locally.

In Los Angeles, Boxer noted that she began her political career making local land-use decisions and would not want to be told how she should vote. Boxer served for six years on the Marin County Board of Supervisors before being elected to Congress.

"As a former county supervisor ... that is a zoning decision, and that decision needs to be made locally," she said at a turbine plant while promoting clean-energy jobs. "No U.S. senator told me what to do."

Boxer said she would support whatever decision is made locally about the center.

Basically a no-comment on the establishment clause, versus Fiorina's outright hostility

290 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:11:59pm

re: #44 Obdicut

Are these the SAME conservatives that rally against government "takings?"

291 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:12:02pm

re: #265 Ojoe

My bad. I swear I read a story that the MIG went down over the Everglades, but can't find any hint of it doing a Google search. Weird.

292 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:12:14pm

re: #288 Walter L. Newton

I love you so much!

That's my Walter :D

293 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:12:18pm

re: #257 blueraven

Is anyone else watching MSNBC? The last of our combat troops are leaving Iraq, now! They seem to be the only ones covering this.

The last troops (traveling in a convoy)are only 5 miles away from the Kuwaiti border.
This withdrawal date has been a well kept secret and is earlier than the deadline in the SOF agreement.

294 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #289 WindUpBird

Barbara Boxer doesn't take the bait:

Basically a no-comment on the establishment clause, versus Fiorina's outright hostility

Pandering LOL!

295 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:12:25pm

OK - i see someone is still *concerned* for the hurt feewings of the great majority of the country).........................

One word - diddums.

296 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:13:26pm

re: #242 deranged cat

I find that the wingnuts love to spew out hatred and lies, but are incredibly, incredibly sensitive and lash out in big numbers when someone makes fun of them.

Bullies are like that.

Never forget that a movement based on fear, is populated by cowards and weaklings.

297 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:13:28pm

re: #140 Varek Raith

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

I'd like to be the Aceofher, if that's not too blunt a sentiment...

298 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:13:42pm

Nancy Pelosi (who so many people here just LOVE TO DEATH and never make any barbed comments about her age ever) stands up!

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also broke her silence on the project today.

She said she wanted to know who is funding the $100 million project and who is funding the opposition to it.

The California Democrat also said Muslims have a right to build near the World Trade Center site, but said New Yorkers should make the final decision.

Pelosi made the comments in a statement after telling a radio station that opponents are trying to politicize the project.

Basically, I think what I can gather from this is thus:

Pelosi and Obama rock on the constitution. :D

299 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:13:56pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Pandering LOL!

But not bigotry :)

300 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:14:52pm

re: #291 Bubblehead II

They were crude airplanes and they took a lot of muscle on the stick.

Gahh, BBL

(turns off computer)

301 Yashmak  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:15:27pm

@#200

Certainly everyone I've heard argue against the mosque has had their arguments firmly couched in bigotry and intolerance.

My list of favorite anti-mosque arguments:
1) Islam is not a religion. . .it's a cult, and therefore doesn't deserve the protections provided to religions.
2) Equating all Muslims with terrorists.

Almost everyone I've debated this with who has been opposed to the mosque has eventually come back to one, or both, of those positions.

302 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:15:42pm

re: #298 WindUpBird

Nancy Pelosi (who so many people here just LOVE TO DEATH and never make any barbed comments about her age ever) stands up!

Basically, I think what I can gather from this is thus:

Pelosi and Obama rock on the constitution. :D

Really... so, Nancy would like to find out who is funding free speech. That bothers me (actually we discussed this earlier today). Why. Has some laws been broken. Or is her intent to use taxpayers money to do a little political digging.

303 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:15:55pm

I remember when Seattle voted down building a new stadium for the Mariners, and Olympia lawmakers panicked over the idea of them leaving and built it anyway, then let the Mariners sell the naming rights to this publicly built stadium to Quest.

It's too bad that the Cordoba Initiative doesn't own the Yankees, and that the Yankees don't suck. Because then the situation would be totally reversed, a majority of Manhattanites would be against the project and the people outside the borough would be all for it.

304 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:16:17pm

They hate him for his freedoms!

305 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:16:58pm

re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote

Bullies are like that.

Never forget that a movement based on fear, is populated by cowards and weaklings.

This just went on my facebook status. People need to remember this.

306 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:17:29pm

re: #301 Yashmak

@#200

Certainly everyone I've heard argue against the mosque has had their arguments firmly couched in bigotry and intolerance.

My list of favorite anti-mosque arguments:
1) Islam is not a religion. . .it's a cult, and therefore doesn't deserve the protections provided to religions.
2) Equating all Muslims with terrorists.

Almost everyone I've debated this with who has been opposed to the mosque has eventually come back to one, or both, of those positions.

don't forget the hurt feelings of the poor oppressed majority........hurt feelings, which are far more important than any real actual reasoning or logic.

Fuck'em. The Lot of em.

307 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:17:44pm

re: #301 Yashmak

@#200

Certainly everyone I've heard argue against the mosque has had their arguments firmly couched in bigotry and intolerance.

My list of favorite anti-mosque arguments:
1) Islam is not a religion. . .it's a cult, and therefore doesn't deserve the protections provided to religions.
2) Equating all Muslims with terrorists.

Almost everyone I've debated this with who has been opposed to the mosque has eventually come back to one, or both, of those positions.

I was actually more surprise at the content of Howard Dean's comment than the fact that he made a anti-mosque comment...

"Calling for compromise, Dean said on WABC radio today the mosque plan "a real affront to people who lost their lives" and laments Islam's being "in the 12th century" in Iran and some other Muslim countries. He also says he believes the Cordoba organizers are in good faith, and that their project should be built elsewhere."

[Link: www.politico.com...]

308 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:18:32pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

Really... so, Nancy would like to find out who is funding free speech. That bothers me (actually we discussed this earlier today). Why. Has some laws been broken. Or is her intent to use taxpayers money to do a little political digging.

i always find it's nice to know who is actually behind the talking points and racist shit spewing.

But thats just me.

309 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:18:50pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

Really... so, Nancy would like to find out who is funding free speech. That bothers me (actually we discussed this earlier today). Why. Has some laws been broken. Or is her intent to use taxpayers money to do a little political digging.

Any political organization serious about the issue should be researching this. I personally would like to know who is funding these bigots, because cockroaches scatter when sunlight hits them.

Just as it is their right to be bigots, it is our right to ask who they are.

310 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:19:44pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

Really... so, Nancy would like to find out who is funding free speech. That bothers me (actually we discussed this earlier today). Why. Has some laws been broken. Or is her intent to use taxpayers money to do a little political digging.

You know that that's what this blog does, right?

You know that Charles posting connections and funding and asociations between right wing fringe groups and how they actually get their views politically laudnered enough to be viable?

You know Stormfront and Vlamm's Belang is free speech right? Dick Armey's Freedomworks astroturfing tea parties is free speech, right?

If Nancy Pelosi wants to know who is funding anti-mosque crazies, that's actually totally okay! It's not okay of she just uses government resources to shake down lobbyists and go all private Investigator The Dame Was Loaded. But it's okay if she actually wants to know, you know, who's funding these guys.

Or who'se funding local white supremacist groups in California.

Or Prop 8 (cough, Mormon Church interfering in California Politics)


So basically you seem to be bothered by LGF itself. Just because something is free speech, doesn't mean they are guaranteed secrecy.

311 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:19:52pm

re: #289 WindUpBird

Barbara Boxer doesn't take the bait:

Basically a no-comment on the establishment clause, versus Fiorina's outright hostility

IN otherwords being a neutral coward on a core issue of American liberties. The Dems are so cowardly I wish to vomit.

The message is:

It's the Constitution stupid.

312 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:20:24pm

re: #308 wozzablog

i always find it's nice to know who is actually behind the talking points and racist shit spewing.

But thats just me.

Not if no one broke any laws and it's just political dirt digging. She can go to the DNC for the money. This should have nothing to do with Congress or whatever unless some Federal laws have been broken, or charges are brought up.

Otherwise, I find it very "big brother" like.

313 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:21:02pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Not if no one broke any laws and it's just political dirt digging. She can go to the DNC for the money. This should have nothing to do with Congress or whatever unless some Federal laws have been broken, or charges are brought up.

Otherwise, I find it very "big brother" like.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

314 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:21:29pm

Holy cow.

Parts of Louisiana got 10-15 inches of rain today.
With another 2-3 inches on the way.


Major Flooding in Louisiana, SW Mississippi
The remnants of Tropical Depression 5 (yes, we're still talking about TD 5) are wreaking havoc across parts of Louisiana and southwest Mississippi.

Interactive map: Tropical Depression 5 remnants swamping Louisiana, southwest Mississippi

Flood warnings are active for the Louisiana parishes of St. Landry, Evangeline, Avoyelles and Rapides.

This is very serious and potentially deadly flash flooding event.

The Hessmer and Mansura areas of Avoyelles Parish have been hit the hardest with rainfall estimates of 10 to an incredible 15 inches.

Rainfall rates are ranging between 1 to 3 inches per hour.

The National Weather Service reports that this is the most significant flood event to strike the area since the passage of Hurricane Gustav in 2008.

315 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:21:30pm

re: #309 Fozzie Bear

Any political organization serious about the issue should be researching this. I personally would like to know who is funding these bigots, because cockroaches scatter when sunlight hits them.

Just as it is their right to be bigots, it is our right to ask who they are.

Start here
Keep America Safe
Liz Cheney and Bill Kristol

[Link: www.keepamericasafe.com...]

316 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:22:33pm

re: #310 WindUpBird

You know that that's what this blog does, right?

You know that Charles posting connections and funding and asociations between right wing fringe groups and how they actually get their views politically laudnered enough to be viable?

You know Stormfront and Vlamm's Belang is free speech right? Dick Armey's Freedomworks astroturfing tea parties is free speech, right?

If Nancy Pelosi wants to know who is funding anti-mosque crazies, that's actually totally okay! It's not okay of she just uses government resources to shake down lobbyists and go all private Investigator The Dame Was Loaded. But it's okay if she actually wants to know, you know, who's funding these guys.

Or who'se funding local white supremacist groups in California.

Or Prop 8 (cough, Mormon Church interfering in California Politics)

So basically you seem to be bothered by LGF itself. Just because something is free speech, doesn't mean they are guaranteed secrecy.

Wow... when you decide to go hyperbolic, you go ballistic... and stupid. All I was addressing was the part that you even agreed on... the part I bolded above.

I never even suggested any of the other points you tried to pin on me. Play again.

317 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:22:52pm

I feel like I woke up in Bizarro land this week. I'm agreeing with Barack Obama and Pat Buchannan... at the same time... while all of a sudden Pat Condell is as bad as Robert Spencer and democrats are trampling each other to get on the islamophobia train before it's too late. Half the lefty friends I have who I would have described as 'terrorist hugging surrender monkeys' up until now are ranting about "Stop the Ground Zero Megamosque!!111!!" on Facebook...

Did someone slip me a huge dose of Psilocybin last week and I'm still under?

318 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:23:01pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Not if no one broke any laws and it's just political dirt digging. She can go to the DNC for the money. This should have nothing to do with Congress or whatever unless some Federal laws have been broken, or charges are brought up.

Otherwise, I find it very "big brother" like.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I was hoping it was sort of tongue-in-cheek. As in, the anti-mosque people keep demanding to know the funding sources of a private business development group when they obviously have no standing to make such a demand, so Pelosi is going to ask where the anti-mosque people are getting their funding.

But I guess that's probably a little too clever for today's politicians . . .

319 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:23:48pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Wow... when you decide to go hyperbolic, you go ballistic... and stupid. All I was addressing was the part that you even agreed on... the part I bolded above.

I never even suggested any of the other points you tried to pin on me. Play again.

Considering that there is no bill, proposed or even alluded to, which advocates for spending public funds on this, I really don't see why you are concerned about it.

320 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:23:54pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

What a wonderful/awful story. You actually made me cry. Thank you so much for caring enough to reach out and explain why you understand (though I wish the world was such that you didn't have to understand). *sigh*

{{{{LVQ}}}}

321 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:24:05pm

re: #317 ArchangelMichael

I feel like I woke up in Bizarro land this week. I'm agreeing with Barack Obama and Pat Buchannan... at the same time... while all of a sudden Pat Condell is as bad as Robert Spencer and democrats are trampling each other to get on the islamophobia train before it's too late. Half the lefty friends I have who I would have described as 'terrorist hugging surrender monkeys' up until now are ranting about "Stop the Ground Zero Megamosque!!111!!" on Facebook...

Did someone slip me a huge dose of Psilocybin last week and I'm still under?

Don't worry... calm down... just keep chanting... "It's the right wings fault... It's the right wings fault."

322 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:24:15pm

It's interesting to see a few articles popping up on Alex Jones' infowars against the 9-11 mosque. I'm not quite sure how people who believe 9-11 was an inside job are opposed to Muslims building a mosque near ground zero. I wonder if Alex Jones will eventually sell out the 9-11 Truth movement to increase his appeal with conservatives.

323 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:24:29pm

re: #286 justaminute

I hope you do. My son is in the military (flight school w/Navy) and I would really like to read your thoughts.

I'd like to read them too.

324 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:24:38pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Not if no one broke any laws and it's just political dirt digging. She can go to the DNC for the money. This should have nothing to do with Congress or whatever unless some Federal laws have been broken, or charges are brought up.

Otherwise, I find it very "big brother" like.

Political dirt digging? - the bile and out and out racism being spewed is beyond politics. Its being used politically already by the GOP candidates and their thinly veiled racist adverts.

Strings are being pulled - the worst in American nature is being tugged this way and that - the public deserves to know who is trying to play their heartstrings like a cheap accordion.

325 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:25:16pm

re: #314 reine.de.tout

Yikes! I bet there is going to be some flooding.

326 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:25:16pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

That was a very nice post. My comment is on one tiny part of it:

Try growing up being the only Jewish boy in class, in an area where the graffiti is "Jesus Saves."

Today I had to go up on my shop's roof to check my swamp cooler. There was one bit of graffiti up there, a blue star of David. I have no idea why.

327 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:25:18pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

It's interesting to see a few articles popping up on Alex Jones' infowars against the 9-11 mosque. I'm not quite sure how people who believe 9-11 was an inside job are opposed to Muslims building a mosque near ground zero. I wonder if Alex Jones will eventually sell out the 9-11 Truth movement to increase his appeal with conservatives.

An excellent point. Being a truther is fundamentally logically incompatible with being opposed to the park51 project.

328 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:25:48pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

great angle/question

329 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:26:05pm

re: #314 reine.de.tout

Holy cow.

Parts of Louisiana got 10-15 inches of rain today.
With another 2-3 inches on the way.

A warmer atmosphere holds more water vapor and warmer seas and lakes have higher vapor pressure.

This will only get much worse.

Please check out the regional AGW predictions for the south east in the Report of the United States Global Change Research Program

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

330 theheat  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:26:08pm

re: #315 blueraven

Is that site where wingnuts go to jerk off, because pr0n is too distasteful?

331 Racer X  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:26:21pm

*belch*

332 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:26:28pm

re: #310 WindUpBird

Oh dude, the people who promoted the anti-gay marriage initiative in WA are suing to have the signature lists buried.

Guess nobody wants to be known as hating gays, either >>

333 deranged cat  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:26:46pm

interesting..
‘Tea Party Exchange’ organizer ‘hoodwinked’ local Ohio businesses into forking over cash for failed scheme.

Local businessman Donald Hutchison, who will speak at the Tea Party gathering in Washington, DC on Sept. 11, started the “Tea Party Exchange” last year, in which about 30 local businesses agreed to give discounts to local Tea Party members. The businesses, which believed they would see increased patronage, paid $150 to participate in the program. Yesterday, however, Hutchison abruptly shut down the program, and there is “no word” on whether the participating businesses will get their money back.

334 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:27:02pm

re: #327 Fozzie Bear

An excellent point. Being a truther is fundamentally logically incompatible with being opposed to the park51 project.

Logical consistency is an anathema to conspiracy bullshit found on Prison Planet and Infowars. They will find a way.

335 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:27:02pm

re: #327 Fozzie Bear

An excellent point. Being a truther is fundamentally logically incompatible with being opposed to the park51 project.

You except logic to play a role in this? What the hell is wrong with you?

/

336 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:27:21pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

Don't worry... calm down... just keep chanting... "It's the right wings fault... It's the right wings fault."

In this instance - it is.

Shit stirring right wingers trying to gain cheap political advantage by again - astroturfing - some sort of faux outrage about one group of citizens trying to use their own property in an attempt to heal (what we now see are) massive rifts in society.

337 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:27:35pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

Considering that there is no bill, proposed or even alluded to, which advocates for spending public funds on this, I really don't see why you are concerned about it.

The why did Nancy bring it up? Why did Windupbird bring it up? Why are we even discussing it?

I don't know. I guess it has something to do with the speaker of the house making vague, veiled suggestions that people speaking out on this issue may be doing so with the help of some illicit money or something.

338 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:27:45pm

re: #332 windsagio

Oh dude, the people who promoted the anti-gay marriage initiative in WA are suing to have the signature lists buried.

Guess nobody wants to be known as hating gays, either >>

Fuck 'em. Let a bright light shine on bigots everywhere.

339 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:28:11pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Not if no one broke any laws and it's just political dirt digging. She can go to the DNC for the money. This should have nothing to do with Congress or whatever unless some Federal laws have been broken, or charges are brought up.

Otherwise, I find it very "big brother" like.

You don't understand the difference between someone in politics wanting to know where money is coming from re: lobbyist groups and political operatives, and going before a judge to get a warrant and actually serving warrants and searching buildings?

You know who else "investigates?" REPORTERS. Oh shit, big brother!

What the hell, did I fall down into CrazyLand? Is gravity reversed?

340 Yashmak  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:28:36pm

I agree that it's important to monitor who is funding the Cordoba House.

My opinion on the whole thing would change abruptly if it turned out it was receiving funding from terrorist linked organizations, etc. etc.

Thus far, however, I've heard of no such links. Until such time as it can be shown that the organizers are engaging in bad faith behavior (no pun intended), I will take them at their word.

What's truly sad to me, is we have the first apparent example of a Muslim organization speaking out loudly and clearly against violent jihad, and what do we get? A significant portion of Americans trying to squash the effort. I tell ya, Osama bin Laden is softly chuckling somewhere (if he's still alive).

341 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:29:47pm

re: #324 wozzablog

Political dirt digging? - the bile and out and out racism being spewed is beyond politics. Its being used politically already by the GOP candidates and their thinly veiled racist adverts.

Strings are being pulled - the worst in American nature is being tugged this way and that - the public deserves to know who is trying to play their heartstrings like a cheap accordion.

And Democrats are jumping on the political bandwagon too. Sorry Wozzy, we offer a little more freedom of speech (and the freedom to spend money advancing that speech) then folks in other parts of the world.

342 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:01pm

re: #315 blueraven

There's a very stupid William Kristol article in the Pages from this morning. I may have to return to leave a comment on that page....

343 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:13pm

might be back later - might just crash out and sleep.

344 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:26pm

re: #332 windsagio

Oh dude, the people who promoted the anti-gay marriage initiative in WA are suing to have the signature lists buried.

Guess nobody wants to be known as hating gays, either >>

That's how these guys work, they want to fuck with peoples lives, in secret. They want no consequences for their decisions. There isn't a single political position I hold that I'd keep secret from anyone. These guys? of course they're secret!

As the guy from Night Breed said: "I love a coward."

345 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:30pm

re: #339 WindUpBird

You don't understand the difference between someone in politics wanting to know where money is coming from re: lobbyist groups and political operatives, and going before a judge to get a warrant and actually serving warrants and searching buildings?

You know who else "investigates?" REPORTERS. Oh shit, big brother!

What the hell, did I fall down into CrazyLand? Is gravity reversed?

Well, if Nancy has a good idea, then the Park51 funding should be transparent too... right?

346 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:34pm

re: #341 Walter L. Newton

So is this whole thing just a huge extended TQ then? >>

347 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:49pm

re: #332 windsagio

Oh dude, the people who promoted the anti-gay marriage initiative in WA are suing to have the signature lists buried.

Guess nobody wants to be known as hating gays, either >>

I published the cretins who supported Prop 8 in CA, on livejournal and a few other places as well.

348 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:30:57pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

The why did Nancy bring it up? Why did Windupbird bring it up? Why are we even discussing it?

I don't know. I guess it has something to do with the speaker of the house making vague, veiled suggestions that people speaking out on this issue may be doing so with the help of some illicit money or something.

Because it is a good idea for the DNC to spend money exposing these freaks. Do you not understand that Pelosi speaks not only as majority leader, but also as a party leader? Is it really so hard to understand that she is speaking in terms of the political organization to which she belongs?

If she proposes a bill, or tries to get subpoenas, you will know, because doing so cannot be done in secret. Until then, you concern is noted, but unwarranted.

349 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:31:06pm

re: #327 Fozzie Bear

An excellent point. Being a truther is fundamentally logically incompatible with being opposed to the park51 project.

He's very close to being a hero of today's wingnuts. All he has to do is lighten up on the 9-11 truth and hide his antisemitism a little better and he could really cash in.

350 Yashmak  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:31:06pm

re: #327 Fozzie Bear

An excellent point. Being a truther is fundamentally logically incompatible with being opposed to the park51 project.


Logic isn't the strong point of either group, however, so there may be no real inconsistency there.

351 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:31:40pm

re: #348 Fozzie Bear

Because it is a good idea for the DNC to spend money exposing these freaks. Do you not understand that Pelosi speaks not only as majority leader, but also as a party leader? Is it really so hard to understand that she is speaking in terms of the political organization to which she belongs?

If she proposes a bill, or tries to get subpoenas, you will know, because doing so cannot be done in secret. Until then, you concern is noted, but unwarranted.

She was speaking for the administration, not the DNC.

352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:31:51pm

re: #341 Walter L. Newton

And Democrats are jumping on the political bandwagon too. Sorry Wozzy, we offer a little more freedom of speech (and the freedom to spend money advancing that speech) then folks in other parts of the world.

Free speech means you're guaranteed absolute secrecy? You can spend money on speech, of course. But you don't get the absolute right to keep the transaction secret.

Where do you get this craziness?

353 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:31:53pm

re: #341 Walter L. Newton

And Democrats are jumping on the political bandwagon too. Sorry Wozzy, we offer a little more freedom of speech (and the freedom to spend money advancing that speech) then folks in other parts of the world.

Freedom of speech is fine - unless you are yelling fire in a a theater.

These people are yelling - at the tops of their lungs - FIRE!!!!!!!!!!11

354 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:32:01pm

re: #333 deranged cat

I think that's called Karma.

355 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:32:19pm

re: #345 Walter L. Newton

Well, if Nancy has a good idea, then the Park51 funding should be transparent too... right?

If a political organization wishes to do its own investigative work, is that a problem? What are you Rip Van Winkle or something? Do you honestly not get how these things work?

356 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:32:52pm

re: #355 Fozzie Bear

If a political organization wishes to do its own investigative work, is that a problem? What are you Rip Van Winkle or something? Do you honestly not get how these things work?

Like I said above... Nancy was speaking for the administration, not the DNC.

357 darthstar  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:33:12pm

Here's a great aerial photo of Ground Zero and what's around it...I suppose it's for the media to use in their reporting:

Image: gzero.jpg

358 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:33:51pm

re: #355 Fozzie Bear

If a political organization wishes to do its own investigative work, is that a problem? What are you Rip Van Winkle or something? Do you honestly not get how these things work?

"“The freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. Where a place of worship is located is a local decision.

“I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance that ‘We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center. At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.’

“For all of those expressing concern about the 9/11 families, we call upon them to join us in support of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act when Congress returns in September.”

“I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance that ‘We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center. At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.’

“For all of those expressing concern about the 9/11 families, we call upon them to join us in support of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act when Congress returns in September.”"

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

359 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:34:31pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Like I said above... Nancy was speaking for the administration, not the DNC.

Interesting that people who aren't in the administration can speak for it now.

On behalf of the office of the president, I hereby declare today Fozzie Bear day, and command you all to send me 20 dollars each.

360 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:35:16pm

re: #359 Fozzie Bear

Interesting that people who aren't in the administration can speak for it now.

On behalf of the office of the president, I hereby declare today Fozzie Bear day, and command you all to send me 20 dollars each.

This was from HER office... not the DNC...

"8/18/10 - UPDATE 1: Speaker Pelosi has sent out a statement regarding her comments on investigating those who she believes may be funding the opposition to the mosque:"

361 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:35:31pm

re: #332 windsagio

Oh dude, the people who promoted the anti-gay marriage initiative in WA are suing to have the signature lists buried.

Guess nobody wants to be known as hating gays, either >>

Repurposing habitats is common in nature, owls and snakes reuse prairie dog burrows, hermit crabs reuse shells, and bigots often lair in closets recently abandoned by sexual minorities.

It's science!

362 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:36:03pm

re: #360 Walter L. Newton

This was from HER office... not the DNC...

"8/18/10 - UPDATE 1: Speaker Pelosi has sent out a statement regarding her comments on investigating those who she believes may be funding the opposition to the mosque:"

But I don't see where she said that Congress should investigate, only that she thought there should be transparency on both sides.

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:36:05pm

re: #345 Walter L. Newton

Well, if Nancy has a good idea, then the Park51 funding should be transparent too... right?

If people find out where the funding is coming from, sure! Go ahead and post it! Just don't lie about it, which is what a whole bunch of Republicans, a whole bunch of GOP operatives, a whole bunch of right wing blogs, a whole bunch of right wing pundits, are doing. They're lying about it. Which is also free speech. But it's a bunch of lies.

It's not beyond the pale to ask where a political movement in America that is influencing votes, where their resources are coming from.

Somehow you're equating a single mosque, a single plot of land, in an area of New York which is filled with Muslims (whoa!) with a GOP nationwide political push, synchronized, to smear a man and win elections on the back of othering Muslims, doesn't really seem equivalent to me.

Seems more like a guy getting the shit kicked out of him by a bunch of thugs, and you're the dude asking "Well, that guy that gut his ass kicked. We should invesitgate him, make sure he's on the level. It's totally equivalent to investigating the assailants."

364 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:36:50pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

"“The freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. Where a place of worship is located is a local decision.

“I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance that ‘We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center. At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.’

“For all of those expressing concern about the 9/11 families, we call upon them to join us in support of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act when Congress returns in September.”

“I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance that ‘We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center. At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.’

“For all of those expressing concern about the 9/11 families, we call upon them to join us in support of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act when Congress returns in September.”"

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

Now, can you quote the part where public funds will be spent on a which hunt? I'll be waiting.

Your point remains unsubstantiated, and ridiculous.

365 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:37:31pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Like I said above... Nancy was speaking for the administration, not the DNC.

Now you're just being stupid or lying. I can't tell which.

366 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:37:33pm

re: #326 wrenchwench

That was a very nice post. My comment is on one tiny part of it:

Today I had to go up on my shop's roof to check my swamp cooler. There was one bit of graffiti up there, a blue star of David. I have no idea why.

That is a bit bizarre.

367 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:37:44pm

re: #359 Fozzie Bear

Interesting that people who aren't in the administration can speak for it now.

On behalf of the office of the president, I hereby declare today Fozzie Bear day, and command you all to send me 20 dollars each.

I can't pound my head against the rhetorical brick wall of Nancy Pelonoia The Destroyah anymore, I'm out

Someone give me a heads up when shit starts making more sense

368 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:38:50pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

In the first few hours of the OKC bombing my son was in Jr. High. In the first hour of the bombing his teacher rolled a television into the classroom to watch. My son innocently asked him "who would do something like that?" His teacher replied "Probably some of your people!" It really hurt him. And then I had to make the teacher really sorry the next day. But it did not feel good.

369 darthstar  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:39:17pm

re: #365 JasonA

Now you're just being stupid or lying. I can't tell which.

This

370 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:40:12pm

Ok, i'm outtahere. See ya all anon.

371 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:40:46pm

re: #364 Fozzie Bear

Now, can you quote the part where public funds will be spent on a which hunt? I'll be waiting.

Your point remains unsubstantiated, and ridiculous.

Let me back off and put it this way. If she is speaking on behalf of her office and the administration, then I have a problem with this unless her statements (future statements) are back with indictments or something that indicates that something illegal may have transpired.

I have no problem if currently or in the future, she is simply indicating that the DNC or other interested parties look into how the politics of the debate is being paid for.

But like I said above, I found her remarks to be vague enough to make me wonder which tact she would be taking if she wanted to move forward with an investigation.

372 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:41:32pm

re: #365 JasonA

Now you're just being stupid or lying. I can't tell which.

See my re: #371 Walter L. Newton

373 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:42:14pm

re: #369 darthstar

This

Is that your wedding outfit? Grow up cake face.

374 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:42:17pm

re: #368 justaminute

In the first few hours of the OKC bombing my son was in Jr. High. In the first hour of the bombing his teacher rolled a television into the classroom to watch. My son innocently asked him "who would do something like that?" His teacher replied "Probably some of your people!" It really hurt him. And then I had to make the teacher really sorry the next day. But it did not feel good.

Did you make him or her cry? If so, good for you!

375 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:42:19pm

I'm off to go register a domain so I can build a web page listing the position taken by every public figure who has spoken (or will speak) out on this issue. 'Cause if I don't do something my head's gonna explode.

BBL

376 windsagio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:42:46pm

re: #373 Walter L. Newton

You oversold it man, come back in a few hours, we'll probably have forgotten :D

377 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:42:58pm

re: #375 CuriousLurker

I'm off to go register a domain so I can build a web page listing the position taken by every public figure who has spoken (or will speak) out on this issue. 'Cause if I don't do something my head's gonna explode.

BBL

Duct tape!

378 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:43:45pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

If she is speaking on behalf of her office and the administration,

The Speaker doesn't get to "speak" on behalf of the administration. If you want to tar Obama, pick something else that's actually his fault.

379 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:43:51pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you for your insights, LVQ. I think the internet is fantastic for this type of sharing of the human experience.

I don't think there is a better country on the planet in which to live as a woman. There is so much less male chauvinism now, thank goodness.

380 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:44:14pm

re: #376 windsagio

You oversold it man, come back in a few hours, we'll probably have forgotten :D

Windy... bend over.

381 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:44:22pm

re: #375 CuriousLurker

I'm off to go register a domain so I can build a web page listing the position taken by every public figure who has spoken (or will speak) out on this issue. 'Cause if I don't do something my head's gonna explode.

BBL

I don't think that's going to help keep you sane, hun...

382 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:44:30pm

re: #329 LudwigVanQuixote

A warmer atmosphere holds more water vapor and warmer seas and lakes have higher vapor pressure.

This will only get much worse.

Please check out the regional AGW predictions for the south east in the Report of the United States Global Change Research Program

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ugh. why are they still talking about hurricane intensity? i see that in a list of 'expected impacts' and i get turned off. hurricane intensity is about more than warm water, as i'm sure you already know.

383 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:44:36pm

Meanwhile, in Iraq:

Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'

Dramatic increases in infant mortality, cancer and leukaemia in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, which was bombarded by US Marines in 2004, exceed those reported by survivors of the atomic bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, according to a new study.

Iraqi doctors in Fallujah have complained since 2005 of being overwhelmed by the number of babies with serious birth defects, ranging from a girl born with two heads to paralysis of the lower limbs. They said they were also seeing far more cancers than they did before the battle for Fallujah between US troops and insurgents.

Their claims have been supported by a survey showing a four-fold increase in all cancers and a 12-fold increase in childhood cancer in under-14s. Infant mortality in the city is more than four times higher than in neighbouring Jordan and eight times higher than in Kuwait.

Sorry this article has almost 1 month, I just now stumbled on it. We're spending way too much figurative bandwidth with cases like Park51.

384 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:45:48pm

re: #374 PT Barnum

Did you make him or her cry? If so, good for you!

The teacher didn't know but the head of the school administration was my mom's cousin. And the cousin used to be the principal of the Jr. High. Let's say he did not look very happy when I left.

385 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:45:50pm

re: #375 CuriousLurker

I'm off to go register a domain so I can build a web page listing the position taken by every public figure who has spoken (or will speak) out on this issue. 'Cause if I don't do something my head's gonna explode.

BBL

That is a site I would visit come election time. I can't wait to see some of these folks taken to task in ads speaking about those who spoke out against the freedom of religion.

The b-b-but Muslim ads will be a sad and yet surely accepted side effect though...

386 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:46:41pm

re: #368 justaminute

In the first few hours of the OKC bombing my son was in Jr. High. In the first hour of the bombing his teacher rolled a television into the classroom to watch. My son innocently asked him "who would do something like that?" His teacher replied "Probably some of your people!" It really hurt him. And then I had to make the teacher really sorry the next day. But it did not feel good.

Please tell me this teacher was fired.

387 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:46:52pm

re: #378 JasonA

The Speaker doesn't get to "speak" on behalf of the administration. If you want to tar Obama, pick something else that's actually his fault.

Then enlighten me. When she makes a statement, is she speaking for the administration, the house or the DNC, or just starting personal opinion. This is an honest question, no snark.

And in her statement above, who was she speaking for. According to the article, she issued this statement from her office, a memo. Under what heading, her office, the House?

388 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:47:03pm

re: #371 Walter L. Newton

Let me back off and put it this way. If she is speaking on behalf of her office and the administration, then I have a problem with this unless her statements (future statements) are back with indictments or something that indicates that something illegal may have transpired.

I have no problem if currently or in the future, she is simply indicating that the DNC or other interested parties look into how the politics of the debate is being paid for.

But like I said above, I found her remarks to be vague enough to make me wonder which tact she would be taking if she wanted to move forward with an investigation.

Ok, I can accept that. I don't agree, but I get your point now. If subpoenas or warrants are issued without being accompanied by a concrete allegation that the subject of the warrants/subpoenas violated a specific law, then such would be improper use of power. However, I don't think that's what she was saying.

389 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:09pm

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001. To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew. I understand and accept that "an eye for an eye, etc." was a limitation of Punishment in its Day. I am also a Secular American and believe in equality of Races, religions, sexes, etc. The Islamic construct of Sha'ariah DOES NOT.
I do, therefore - oppose Sha'ariah and the Islamist dream of World Domination. Remember that "Mein Kampf, a popular book in the Islamic world is translated into Arabic as "MY Jihad" just as the Arabic word for Slave and Black Person are one and the same - "Abid." MY statements may not be Politically Correct today, however, they are ACCURATE. Mr. Muhammed , you may erase 1000 years of Human Progress over MY DEAD COLD BODY. That is ALL! - Dr. Shalit

390 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:20pm

re: #379 prairiefire

Thank you for your insights, LVQ. I think the internet is fantastic for this type of sharing of the human experience.

I don't think there is a better country on the planet in which to live as a woman. There is so much less male chauvinism now, thank goodness.

BACK TO THE KITCHEN WOMAN!!

Err, umm... I mean yeah, good point.

391 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:24pm

re: #353 wozzablog

Freedom of speech is fine - unless you are yelling fire in a a theater.

These people are yelling - at the tops of their lungs - FIRE!!!11

But what if the theater really is on fire?

392 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:28pm

re: #383 Nimed

Shouldn't a "Meanwhile in Iraq" thing be about the last combat troops leaving the country?

I realize that MSNBC is the only one with an embedded reporter, so you have to put up with Olberman if you want to watch it happening in real time, but that's a small price to pay, really.

393 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:45pm

re: #388 Fozzie Bear

Ok, I can accept that. I don't agree, but I get your point now. If subpoenas or warrants are issued without being accompanied by a concrete allegation that the subject of the warrants/subpoenas violated a specific law, then such would be improper use of power. However, I don't think that's what she was saying.

Ok... I can concur with that too. That's why I went further with my inquiry in comment re: #387 Walter L. Newton...

I'm looking for some guidance and clarification here, not an argument.

394 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:48:56pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Then enlighten me. When she makes a statement, is she speaking for the administration, the house or the DNC, or just starting personal opinion. This is an honest question, no snark.

And in her statement above, who was she speaking for. According to the article, she issued this statement from her office, a memo. Under what heading, her office, the House?

I don't think it's clear from her statement, but I think it's telling that you immediately assume the worst rather than actually paying attention to what was actually said.

395 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:49:42pm

re: #368 justaminute

In the first few hours of the OKC bombing my son was in Jr. High. In the first hour of the bombing his teacher rolled a television into the classroom to watch. My son innocently asked him "who would do something like that?" His teacher replied "Probably some of your people!" It really hurt him. And then I had to make the teacher really sorry the next day. But it did not feel good.

Are you Jewish or Muslim or Black?

396 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:49:53pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

Wow. So, 1000 years of progress? Do tell me about algebra, and its origins.

397 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:50:22pm

re: #395 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, all three, but in defense of the teacher she had gay friends at the time.

398 Racer X  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:50:22pm

re: #375 CuriousLurker

I'm off to go register a domain so I can build a web page listing the position taken by every public figure who has spoken (or will speak) out on this issue. 'Cause if I don't do something my head's gonna explode.

BBL

I can think of about a thousand other things I would rather do to occupy my time.

399 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:50:24pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001. To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew. I understand and accept that "an eye for an eye, etc." was a limitation of Punishment in its Day. I am also a Secular American and believe in equality of Races, religions, sexes, etc. The Islamic construct of Sha'ariah DOES NOT.
I do, therefore - oppose Sha'ariah and the Islamist dream of World Domination. Remember that "Mein Kampf, a popular book in the Islamic world is translated into Arabic as "MY Jihad" just as the Arabic word for Slave and Black Person are one and the same - "Abid." MY statements may not be Politically Correct today, however, they are ACCURATE. Mr. Muhammed , you may erase 1000 years of Human Progress over MY DEAD COLD BODY. That is ALL! - Dr. Shalit

Fine. Quit your job and hunt down bin Laden then, and leave the Cordoba Initiative out of it, since they had shit all to do with 9/11.

400 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:50:44pm

re: #394 PT Barnum

I don't think it's clear from her statement, but I think it's telling that you immediately assume the worst rather than actually paying attention to what was actually said.

So you are saying I should have realized that her unclear statement was unclear as to what she was trying to be clear about?

Got ya...

401 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:50:58pm

re: #395 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you Jewish or Muslim or Black?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It is terribly sad that this is the logical implication of that situation, but also terribly funny that you pointed it out. Sigh, I wish that question didn't reveal a great truth.

402 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:02pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001. To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew. I understand and accept that "an eye for an eye, etc." was a limitation of Punishment in its Day. I am also a Secular American and believe in equality of Races, religions, sexes, etc. The Islamic construct of Sha'ariah DOES NOT.
I do, therefore - oppose Sha'ariah and the Islamist dream of World Domination. Remember that "Mein Kampf, a popular book in the Islamic world is translated into Arabic as "MY Jihad" just as the Arabic word for Slave and Black Person are one and the same - "Abid." MY statements may not be Politically Correct today, however, they are ACCURATE. Mr. Muhammed , you may erase 1000 years of Human Progress over MY DEAD COLD BODY. That is ALL! - Dr. Shalit

umm..pardon me, but your bigotry is showing.,,,

403 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:30pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

I oppose world domination by Unicorns.

404 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:30pm

Not sure this has been posted to LGF yet, but I just found it at one of the boards I frequent.

Youtube Video
405 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:36pm

re: #381 JasonA

I don't think that's going to help keep you sane, hun...

Maybe not, but I need to direct my anger somewhere outside my own head lest it get trapped in there and poison my ability to think reasonably & keep things in perspective.

re: #385 SinisterBen

That's precisely why I want to do it.

~~~GONE~~~

406 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:49pm

re: #399 AntonSirius

Don't worry we already have an unemployed person on dialysis taking care of bin Laden. Let's focus on the community center being erected in the most liberal city NY, NY, that we suddenly consider hallowed ground.

407 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:51pm

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

Ok... I can concur with that too. That's why I went further with my inquiry in comment re: #387 Walter L. Newton...

I'm looking for some guidance and clarification here, not an argument.

"Oh, I'm sorry...this is abuse. You want room 12A, just around the corner."

408 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:51:52pm

re: #386 SinisterBen

No, he was suspended for 2 weeks and had to come back and make an a speech on bigotry and a heartfelt apology to my son. He was not back for the next school year though.

409 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:52:22pm

re: #400 Walter L. Newton

So you are saying I should have realized that her unclear statement was unclear as to what she was trying to be clear about?

Got ya...

No simply not cast aspersions without more evidence.

410 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:52:45pm

re: #383 Nimed

Meanwhile, in Iraq:

Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'

Sorry this article has almost 1 month, I just now stumbled on it. We're spending way too much figurative bandwidth with cases like Park51.

Uhhhh...probably not. It's easy to forge that lefties are full of shit too. It's probably a bogus study.

411 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:53:30pm

re: #396 SinisterBen

Wow. So, 1000 years of progress? Do tell me about algebra, and its origins.

careful what you ask for...Shalit posts vegetarian-style

(lots of wordsalad)

412 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:53:53pm

re: #408 justaminute

Well, that seems pretty light handed. I hope he/she left in shame.

413 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

I'm not going to touch the obvious bigotry in this statement, but there is one point I'd like to make.

The definitions of the words "Kampf", "Struggle", and "Jihad" are roughly equivalent. Hence, "Mein Kampf" would translate "[My] Jihad" or "My Struggle". In other words, congratulations, you learned a new word in 3 languages!

414 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:54:16pm

re: #411 Aceofwhat?

careful what you ask for...Shalit posts vegetarian-style

(lots of wordsalad)

Shalit is Robert Spencer spelled sideways.

415 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:54:34pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Then enlighten me. When she makes a statement, is she speaking for the administration, the house or the DNC, or just starting personal opinion. This is an honest question, no snark.

And in her statement above, who was she speaking for. According to the article, she issued this statement from her office, a memo. Under what heading, her office, the House?

The title Speaker of the House does not bestow that kind of authority on her. Other Democratic Representatives can voice an opinion contrary to hers. Nor does she speak for the administration, but you damn well know that. Or can I attribute statements made by her while Bush was President as "speaking for the administration?"

416 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:54:36pm

re: #411 Aceofwhat?

I promise not to toss his anymore then. I am sure it was what he was looking for anyway. Hard to find love for some people.

417 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:54:50pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

Didn't we see this on Glenn Beck a couple of days ago?

418 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:55:02pm

re: #406 SinisterBen

Don't worry we already have an unemployed person on dialysis taking care of bin Laden.

Is that "Taking care of" in the commie-soshulist-big gubmint sense, or "taking care of" in the Tony Soprano sense?

419 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:55:03pm

re: #413 Fozzie Bear

I'm not going to touch the obvious bigotry in this statement, but there is one point I'd like to make.

The definitions of the words "Kampf", "Struggle", and "Jihad" are roughly equivalent. Hence, "Mein Kampf" would translate "[My] Jihad" or "My Struggle". In other words, congratulations, you learned a new word in 3 languages!

At least it wasn't a trilingual pun...I know a bilingual pun, but that is as much a source of shame as of pride.

420 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:55:23pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

Uhhh...probably not. It's easy to forge that lefties are full of shit too. It's probably a bogus study.

Yeah... unless Fallujah was completely flattened killing more than 3/4 of the inhabitants and leaving only a handful of structures standing, there is no fucking way it was as destructive as Hiroshima.

421 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:55:25pm

oops..gotta go..

422 justaminute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:55:27pm

re: #395 LudwigVanQuixote

My husband is an Iranian Muslim, I'm just an ol' Okie. My son just has an Iranian name and looks ME.

423 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:56:08pm

re: #418 AntonSirius

Is that "Taking care of" in the commie-soshulist-big gubmint sense, or "taking care of" in the Tony Soprano sense?

Tony Soprano of course:

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

He is going to use a glider this time!

424 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:56:22pm

re: #416 SinisterBen

I promise not to toss his anymore then. I am sure it was what he was looking for anyway. Hard to find love for some people.

eh, sometimes it can be fun to poke the lettuce. i just wanted to warn you what you were in for!

425 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:56:33pm

re: #419 PT Barnum

At least it wasn't a trilingual pun...I know a bilingual pun, but that is as much a source of shame as of pride.

You need to read more Joyce then... trilingual puns are the least of your worries.

426 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:56:59pm

re: #424 Aceofwhat?

I can go to a million sites to read the word salad nonsense. I come here for the fun and the moderation.

427 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:57:07pm

re: #334 ArchangelMichael

A.M.- SURELY "they" Will . And If "they " have trouble" Surely some school or another of Islamic Jurisprudence Will NOT. Taqquiah, Taqquiah Uber alles, uber alles im den welt. -Dr. Shalit-

428 sagehen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:57:17pm

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

It was actually worse than that. Natural born American citizens, nisei, were interned along with immigrants, citizens and non-citizens alike. In fact, 62% of the internees were American citizens.

Even worse than that.

Those families whose sons were draft age -- were drafted. Most of the families at Manzanar had sons/husbands/dads/cousins *in uniform on the battlefields of Europe* fighting for Truth and Justice and the American Way while their moms and dads and kids and siblings were locked up.

As a military unit, their record in North Africa and Europe was extraordinary. After almost two years of fighting, the 100th/442nd emerged from the war the most highly decorated unit in U.S. military history.

And not one single deserter or traitor out of all of them.

429 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:57:44pm

re: #426 SinisterBen

I can go to a million sites to read the word salad nonsense. I come here for the fun and the moderation.

bingo.

and more salad, right on cue...

430 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:58:00pm

re: #415 JasonA

The title Speaker of the House does not bestow that kind of authority on her. Other Democratic Representatives can voice an opinion contrary to hers. Nor does she speak for the administration, but you damn well know that. Or can I attribute statements made by her while Bush was President as "speaking for the administration?"

You need to go have a smoke or something and stop being so snappy-assed. I told you above I was asking this/these questions honestly, because it apparent that I'm not clear enough on what her authority convers.

That's for the political science lesson... Professor GrumpyFuck.

431 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:58:30pm

re: #427 Dr. Shalit

Nope, sorry, didn't quite follow. Could you repeat that in Saneglish?

432 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:58:39pm

re: #429 Aceofwhat?

I like that he tags it with his name, unlike everyone on the site. So you know he is an AW. It makes him feel important.

433 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:59:15pm

re: #431 AntonSirius

Nope, sorry, didn't quite follow. Could you repeat that in Saneglish?

Perhaps he could enlighten us as to the nefarious words various naughty books translate into in Arabic.

434 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 4:59:24pm

Oops, sorry, I am not sure how the double post happened. :/

435 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:00:01pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001. To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew. I understand and accept that "an eye for an eye, etc." was a limitation of Punishment in its Day. I am also a Secular American and believe in equality of Races, religions, sexes, etc. The Islamic construct of Sha'ariah DOES NOT.
I do, therefore - oppose Sha'ariah and the Islamist dream of World Domination. Remember that "Mein Kampf, a popular book in the Islamic world is translated into Arabic as "MY Jihad" just as the Arabic word for Slave and Black Person are one and the same - "Abid." MY statements may not be Politically Correct today, however, they are ACCURATE. Mr. Muhammed , you may erase 1000 years of Human Progress over MY DEAD COLD BODY. That is ALL! - Dr. Shalit

God you are a putz.

First off the eye for an eye thing is one of the most misquoted and misunderstood lines from the whole Bible.

If you were such an "Old Testament" Jew you would never say such a thing. Well for one thing, if you were at all into being Jewish, you wouldn't call it the Old Testament, we only have the one you see, there isn't an "old" one as far as we are concerned.

But more to the point, the very next line is that "G-d says vengeance is mine."

What does that mean?

It means that vengeance is not in the hands of man. That absolute justice - which is the sole province of G-d - is out of the hands of men or human courts.

n a system of perfect justice, somehow a lost eye or a lost tooth would be perfectly balanced. G-d is saying that HE and He alone can and will do that. He says this to assuage us that our imperfect courts and imperfect attempts at justice will none-the less by balanced out ultimately. He tells us this to let us know that even if a sinner "get's away with it" there will be an ultimate and completely balanced judgement waiting for him.

Directly linked to this is the notion that we are not to seek vengeance. True judgement belongs to Hashem.

This is a classic case, perhaps the most classic case, of moron using a verse to say the exact opposite of its intent.

You make every single Jew look bad with such ignorance. You make lefties and Christians alike go on about the meme that somehow "the Old Testament" is a cruel and harsh view of G-d. Your ignorance, arrogance and stupidity damage the people.

436 sagehen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:00:51pm

re: #200 Walter L. Newton

I say Reid and Dean are bigots, just like all the rest of them. Agree?

I would have said spineless and cowardly, but okay.

437 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:00:55pm

re: #435 LudwigVanQuixote

To be fair, his Jewish training was from Brigham Young University.

438 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:00:56pm

re: #430 Walter L. Newton

You need to go have a smoke or something and stop being so snappy-assed. I told you above I was asking this/these questions honestly, because it apparent that I'm not clear enough on what her authority convers.

That's for the political science lesson... Professor GrumpyFuck.

lol
You. Calling someone else out for being grumpy.
Comment favorited.

439 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:01:45pm

re: #438 JasonA

lol
You. Calling someone else out for being grumpy.
Comment favorited.

Welcome to the club.

440 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:02:02pm

Lizards, it's time to call it a night. My thanks to those of you who thought one of my posts was worth a + ding. For the second time in my history here, I made a top ten. For those of you who are beer elitists, suck on this. :-)

Youtube Video
441 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:02:02pm

re: #436 sagehen

I would have said spineless and cowardly, but okay.

As well as populist hacks trying to play to the mob carrying the pitchforks. Nice demographics there I am sure.

442 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:02:50pm

bbiam

443 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:02:52pm

re: #435 LudwigVanQuixote


True judgement belongs to Hashem.

I mean... look at the parking lot!

444 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:03:42pm

re: #382 Aceofwhat?

ugh. why are they still talking about hurricane intensity? i see that in a list of 'expected impacts' and i get turned off. hurricane intensity is about more than warm water, as i'm sure you already know.

Ugh, we are talking about a lot more than hurrican intensity. Do take the time to read the repost, understand teh very basic science of what I just said, and understand that, no, whether or not you find it boring this is a real and devastating problem.

As an added benefit. try to do that before making dismissive, ignorant, and stupid comments that demonstrate a lack of understanding high-school science.

445 Mentis Fugit  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:04:32pm

re: #193 Walter L. Newton

I have changed my mind.


The mark of an adult. Sad that it needs to be said.

446 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:04:32pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli who said something about there being lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. Which is not to say that there is no actual cause-and-effect here, but according to the article itself, the report or abnormalities is not based upon medical evidence but, rather, on a "survey of 711 householders" in Fallujah. I leave it to those more versed in medical issues than I am to opine whether those reports make sense.

447 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:04:39pm

As much as I understand these people trying to "rouse the base" do these people make it to the voting box? This sort of thing seems more like misdirected anger which fizzles out, not what drives people to stand in line, unable to rant and shout, in order to vote...

448 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:05:45pm

re: #408 justaminute

No, he was suspended for 2 weeks and had to come back and make an a speech on bigotry and a heartfelt apology to my son. He was not back for the next school year though.

He's probably spewing hatred somewhere on the internet as we speak.

449 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:05:54pm

re: #435 LudwigVanQuixote

And once again I learn a bit about the roots of my own faith. Thank you, LVQ.

450 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:06:16pm

re: #392 AntonSirius

Shouldn't a "Meanwhile in Iraq" thing be about the last combat troops leaving the country?

I understand this is an unpleasant subject, but a "meanwhile in Iraq" should also be about the consequences of the American invasion of Iraq for the people who inhabit the country. We very seldom hear about those, and we begin to hear a lot about how it was all worth it because Saddam was a bad, bad man.

In addition, the civilian deaths caused by a yet to be identified carcinogenic element are not counted as civilian violent deaths, but are nevertheless almost certainly a consequence of the war. They should definitely be reported.

451 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:06:22pm

re: #443 AntonSirius

I mean... look at the parking lot!

Crap, I meant to include this link. Ah well.

452 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:06:54pm

re: #439 Walter L. Newton

Welcome to the club.

Walter, could you send your mailing address to my email? Thanks.

453 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:06:57pm

Ot: I'm thinking of getting one of these....
HY-400 with 5 blades

It's almost enough to run a refrigerator. There will be cold beer for the zombie apocalypse.

454 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:07:32pm

re: #444 LudwigVanQuixote

Ugh, we are talking about a lot more than hurrican intensity. Do take the time to read the repost, understand teh very basic science of what I just said, and understand that, no, whether or not you find it boring this is a real and devastating problem.

As an added benefit. try to do that before making dismissive, ignorant, and stupid comments that demonstrate a lack of understanding high-school science.

Hey man, I am just saying it was almost nice outside in Arkansas today. Hottest summer my rear end! The sad I have is because all the students are starting to arrive in town, and there is nothing like 13,000 new citizens to ruin your quick trip to the grocery store.

455 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:07:32pm

The segment of the left that has dietized Dean is flipping out.

456 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:08:40pm

re: #379 prairiefire

Thank you for your insights, LVQ. I think the internet is fantastic for this type of sharing of the human experience.

I don't think there is a better country on the planet in which to live as a woman. There is so much less male chauvinism now, thank goodness.

Thank you.

457 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:08:49pm

Bill O'Reilly just reported opined that there is no Muslim population near the proposed Park51 project.
"There isn't a Muslim within a mile... who's gonna go to it?"

458 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:09:03pm

re: #427 Dr. Shalit

A.M.- SURELY "they" Will . And If "they " have trouble" Surely some school or another of Islamic Jurisprudence Will NOT. Taqquiah, Taqquiah Uber alles, uber alles im den welt. -Dr. Shalit-

If I could show you an essay by a Muslim who opposes the 9/11 Triumphal MegaMosque and Swim Hole of Ground Zero being built where it is now approved to be built, and HE said that not all Muslims favor a Caliphate, would you believe him?

459 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:03pm

re: #413 Fozzie Bear


Mein Kampf is one of the best selling books in the Arab world, and not because it is a discourse on peaceful jihad. The tranplanation to the Arab world of the rabid anti-Semitism previously promoted by the Nazi regime, and the promotion of anti-Semitic motifs by Arab governments (and not merely by radical Islamists) is well-documented.

460 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:09pm

re: #452 prairiefire

Walter, could you send your mailing address to my email? Thanks.

Done.

461 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:21pm

re: #447 SinisterBen

As much as I understand these people trying to "rouse the base" do these people make it to the voting box? This sort of thing seems more like misdirected anger which fizzles out, not what drives people to stand in line, unable to rant and shout, in order to vote...

The thing that confuses me is, aren't the people who would be riled up by this already as riled up as they're gonna get?

Is there really someone out there thinking to themselves "Well, I wasn't sure if I should vote this year or not to try and strike a blow against that foreign-born traitor Obama and his evil commie agenda, but this mosque thing really cinches it!"

462 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:30pm

re: #457 jaunte

Bill O'Reilly just reported opined that there is no Muslim population near the proposed Park51 project.
"There isn't a Muslim within a mile... who's gonna go to it?"

William Kristol linked to an article that said "It's a commercial area. Nobody needs a mosque there."

So many experts!

463 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:37pm

re: #455 Conservative Moonbat

The segment of the left that has dietized Dean is flipping out.

YYYEAAAEEERGH!
Although I was a fan, I cannot stand behind this bigoted ass-hattery. Is this a sign of actually standing behind your beliefs or is this a sign of some weakness on the part of his previous backers?

464 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:40pm

re: #457 jaunte

Bill O'Reilly just reported opined that there is no Muslim population near the proposed Park51 project.
"There isn't a Muslim within a mile... who's gonna go to it?"

Yeah. And African Americans don't yell out "M-Effer, where's my ice tea!"
Really, Bill's not my go to guy for racial information.

465 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:40pm

re: #457 jaunte

Bill O'Reilly just reported opined that there is no Muslim population near the proposed Park51 project.
"There isn't a Muslim within a mile... who's gonna go to it?"

But there are Muslims worshiping at the current site . . . Fuck . . . teleporting Muslim extremists . . . we're all screwed.

466 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:10:42pm

re: #457 jaunte

Bill O'Reilly just reported opined that there is no Muslim population near the proposed Park51 project.
"There isn't a Muslim within a mile... who's gonna go to it?"

the people who pray outside the other mosque in the area because they can't fit inside?

467 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:12:07pm

re: #466 Conservative Moonbat
I think he's making it up as he goes.

468 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:12:24pm

re: #465 JamesWI

But there are Muslims worshiping at the current site . . . Fuck . . . teleporting Muslim extremists . . . we're all screwed.

Once the teleporting terror-babies mature it's game over, man.
Game over.

469 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:12:57pm

re: #428 sagehen

It is an irony of American history that those who are most discriminated against often fight most honorably for the promise of the freedom that the Constitution holds out to them. The record of the Tuskegee Airmen comes to mind, as well.

470 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:13:06pm

re: #461 AntonSirius

I worry that you can only stretch this sort of feeling so far. Like taking your boxers, and hooking them to a tow hitch, eventually, some strings are going to break, and then you have some catastrophic failures. I fear that these failures won't vote the way most of us do. I think "2nd Amendment Remedies" come to mind.

It is actually worrisome to me.

471 jaunte  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:13:18pm

re: #468 JasonA

Naked teleporting terror babies.

472 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:13:27pm

re: #468 JasonA

Once the teleporting terror-babies mature it's game over, man.
Game over.

Then again, if they've mastered the art of teleportation, there would be no need for terror babies. They could all just port in when they've matured into full grown terror adults.

473 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:13:39pm

re: #449 wlewisiii

And once again I learn a bit about the roots of my own faith. Thank you, LVQ.

Thank you so much.

One of the big things that secular Jews need to be careful of, is taking the Christian view of the "Old Testament" as our own on the false impression that it is the same bible or the same biblical interpretation.

They are a different faith, however closely related, that purposefully rejected the Oral Law, and as was their prerogative, came up with their own interpretations of the text on every level and translated it accordingly.

This is not to bash Christians at all or one bit or to say that King James is not their holy book, or that King James should not be respected.

However, it should be respected in the same way that one respects the Quaran or the Rig veda. At the end of the day, the fundamental differences are that large.

474 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:13:56pm

re: #464 JasonA

Yeah. And African Americans don't yell out "M-Effer, where's my ice tea!"
Really, Bill's not my go to guy for racial information.

Whoa, now, he knows what cocaine dealers look like... black men with suits!

475 Nimed  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:14:01pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

Uhhh...probably not. It's easy to forge that lefties are full of shit too. It's probably a bogus study.

Huh, WTF?

Do you have any basis whatsoever for dismissing the study, or was that the sound of your knee jerking?

476 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:14:19pm

re: #450 Nimed

I understand this is an unpleasant subject, but a "meanwhile in Iraq" should also be about the consequences of the American invasion of Iraq for the people who inhabit the country. We very seldom hear about those, and we begin to hear a lot about how it was all worth it because Saddam was a bad, bad man.

In addition, the civilian deaths caused by a yet to be identified carcinogenic element are not counted as civilian violent deaths, but are nevertheless almost certainly a consequence of the war. They should definitely be reported.

I appreciate that. I was really just using your post as a segue to mention that the last of our combat troops were leaving Iraq, right this moment, since there was no open thread to drop it into.

477 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:15:17pm

re: #454 SinisterBen

Hey man, I am just saying it was almost nice outside in Arkansas today. Hottest summer my rear end! The sad I have is because all the students are starting to arrive in town, and there is nothing like 13,000 new citizens to ruin your quick trip to the grocery store.

Well this may shock you, bu the world is a bit larger than Arkansas. Up where I am, it has been a terrible scorcher. Then you can look at Pakistan. How do giant monsoons after 128 degree heat sound to you?

478 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:15:43pm

re: #477 LudwigVanQuixote

My friend, that was sarcasm.

479 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:16:03pm

The last combat troops just pulled out of Iraq btw. The war is officially over.

480 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:16:20pm

re: #475 Nimed

Huh, WTF?

Do you have any basis whatsoever for dismissing the study, or was that the sound of your knee jerking?

Perhaps it sounded like the jerk of a knee, but Killgore has the most accurate knee around.

481 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:16:26pm

Well except for the Kroger part. I really did want to buy some food tonight.

482 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:16:41pm

re: #470 SinisterBen

I worry that you can only stretch this sort of feeling so far. Like taking your boxers, and hooking them to a tow hitch, eventually, some strings are going to break, and then you have some catastrophic failures. I fear that these failures won't vote the way most of us do. I think "2nd Amendment Remedies" come to mind.

It is actually worrisome to me.

Oh, it's very worrisome to me too. It's the theory that is somehow an effective GOTV maneuver that has me scratching my head.

483 Mocking Jay  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:17:13pm

re: #479 Conservative Moonbat

The last combat troops just pulled out of Iraq btw. The war is officially over.

Somehow I don't imagine Obama'll be dusting off that banner, though...

484 blueraven  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:17:35pm

re: #459 sliv_the_eli

Mein Kampf is one of the best selling books in the Arab world, and not because it is a discourse on peaceful jihad. The tranplanation to the Arab world of the rabid anti-Semitism previously promoted by the Nazi regime, and the promotion of anti-Semitic motifs by Arab governments (and not merely by radical Islamists) is well-documented.

Link? And is it a best seller in other countries as well?

485 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:17:41pm

re: #475 Nimed

Just a hunch. It doesn't pass the initial sniff test. A month of modern urban warfare in a small middle eastern city probably isn't comparable with death toll from dropping a nuclear device on a densely populated large Japanese city.

486 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:18:03pm

re: #480 wrenchwench

Perhaps it sounded like the jerk of a knee, but Killgore has the most accurate knee around.

lol.

487 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:18:07pm

re: #396 SinisterBen

Arguably Arabic and otherwise appropriated from conquered Hindus and/or Persians. Other than Foreign Patent Recognition - "How Many Patents has the Saudi Patent Office issued in the last TEN (10) YEARS. Answer IS Probably Less than 1000. New Ideas are generally Not the Stock in Trade of the 'DAR AL Islam." Need I sY MORE? -DR. SHALIT-

488 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:18:13pm

re: #482 AntonSirius

Oh, it's very worrisome to me too. It's the theory that is somehow an effective GOTV maneuver that has me scratching my head.

But imagine with me that the worry I have is another Tiller. The Talking heads all pretended to have nothing to do with that at all... nope... nothing.

And the media said: Nothing.

They don't fear this response, they seem to think it means they are just being heard.

489 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:18:41pm

re: #479 Conservative Moonbat

The last combat troops just pulled out of Iraq btw. The war is officially over.

Well, we still have about 50K advisors there, I think. It's not exactly a "last copter out of Saigon" moment, but it's still big. And long overdue.

490 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:19:07pm

re: #478 SinisterBen

My friend, that was sarcasm.

I know, but there are still enough deniers out there, that such a response was demanded. There is a Poe's law for AGW as well.

491 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:19:11pm

re: #487 Dr. Shalit

I have a feeling if I say no, you'll have lot's more to say spew anyway.

492 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:19:59pm

re: #487 Dr. Shalit

Nope say nothing more! Ever! That would be great.

493 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:21:01pm

re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote

Well damn, at least do me the courtesy of just slapping me around for being an ass. Don't act like I was actively denying things to further your war against Poe's law.

494 Digital Display  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:22:49pm

Combat troops are leaving Iraq as we speak!
Our Troops have done a world class job for the last 7 years...
Cheers and thanks the Lord!
/Did you know that everybody from the 3/5th Marines came home safe from Fallujah? It was 1:30am at Camp P. when the white buses pulled in..Thousands of parents, Spouses, Families erupted in a sound I have never heard before or since...There was no greater joy...
After 8 hours of waiting..We met parents and newborn babies and Mothers waiting for their Marine to come Home.
Welcome Home Hero's!

495 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:23:06pm

re: #488 SinisterBen

But imagine with me that the worry I have is another Tiller. The Talking heads all pretended to have nothing to do with that at all... nope... nothing.

And the media said: Nothing.

They don't fear this response, they seem to think it means they are just being heard.

Not just another Tiller - how many cops have been shot in the last year or so? Pittsburgh, Oakland... the one this week in Dallas doesn't seem to have had a political motivation, but if so it's the exception.

496 Racer X  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:23:12pm

re: #479 Conservative Moonbat

The last combat troops just pulled out of Iraq btw. The war is officially over.

Did we win?

497 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:23:53pm

re: #496 Racer X

Did we win?

Why do I hear something about "letting history decide?"

498 sagehen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:24:05pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Then enlighten me. When she makes a statement, is she speaking for the administration, the house or the DNC, or just starting personal opinion. This is an honest question, no snark.

And in her statement above, who was she speaking for. According to the article, she issued this statement from her office, a memo. Under what heading, her office, the House?

Any public statement from Nancy Pelosi, on any issue, unless otherwise specificied should be presumed to be from The Speaker of the House.

With the understanding that many members of her party do not feel bound by the views of the Speaker (as vote totals on any number of bills will verify). And the understanding that the President and the House are not always in agreement either (see Public Option).

499 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:24:14pm

re: #496 Racer X

Did we win?

Yup. Grand prize is a brand new mosque at Ground Zero.

500 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:25:50pm

re: #498 sagehen

Any public statement from Nancy Pelosi, on any issue, unless otherwise specificied should be presumed to be from The Speaker of the House.

With the understanding that many members of her party do not feel bound by the views of the Speaker (as vote totals on any number of bills will verify). And the understanding that the President and the House are not always in agreement either (see Public Option).

Thanks... that's what I needed to know.

501 SinisterBen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:25:59pm

re: #498 sagehen

Any public statement from Nancy Pelosi, on any issue, unless otherwise specificied should be presumed to be from The Speaker of the House.

With the understanding that many members of her party do not feel bound by the views of the Speaker (as vote totals on any number of bills will verify). And the understanding that the President and the House are not always in agreement either (see Public Option).

Can we at least agree, that those comments were pretty damn stupid? Investigations into the people doing this sounds just like what I have been rallying against for the 12 years. Let us not pretend that this message although bigoted and wrong deserves special investigation.

502 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:26:57pm

re: #501 SinisterBen

Can we at least agree, that those comments were pretty damn stupid? Investigations into the people doing this sounds just like what I have been rallying against for the 12 years. Let us not pretend that this message although bigoted and wrong deserves special investigation.

I thought it sounded pretty stupid. In the least, it sounded like a vague veiled threat. But I got pretty beat up up thread for suggesting that.

503 Racer X  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:27:33pm

re: #499 AntonSirius

Yup. Grand prize is a brand new mosque at Ground Zero.

I keep hearing it is not a mosque, and it's not at ground zero.

504 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:31:54pm

re: #498 sagehen

Any public statement from Nancy Pelosi, on any issue, unless otherwise specificied should be presumed to be from The Speaker of the House.

With the understanding that many members of her party do not feel bound by the views of the Speaker (as vote totals on any number of bills will verify). And the understanding that the President and the House are not always in agreement either (see Public Option).

A politician wanting to know where resources in politics come from should not be out of bounds for discussion.

it's not "stupid", it's not anything, it's part of the system.

If there was a massive coordinated incredibly specific nasty talking point against jewish people or israel that started hitting all the news cycles, all talking points making jewish people into the enemy, all the different blogs and media outlets.

...and politicians wanted to know where it was coming from, who was funding it?

Everyone here in the comments who's like OMG NANCY PEOLOSSEEE BIG BROTHER THAT EVIL WITCH SHE'S SO OLD would be 100% for finding out who was at the bottom of it.

Guara

fucking

teed.

505 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:32:53pm

re: #503 Racer X

I keep hearing it is not a mosque, and it's not at ground zero.

Man, them libruls will say anything, won't they?

506 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:35:14pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

Uhhh...probably not. It's easy to forge that lefties are full of shit too. It's probably a bogus study.

The survey was carried out by a team of 11 researchers in January and February this year who visited 711 houses in Fallujah. A questionnaire was filled in by householders giving details of cancers, birth outcomes and infant mortality. Hitherto the Iraqi government has been loath to respond to complaints from civilians about damage to their health during military operations.

Researchers were initially regarded with some suspicion by locals, particularly after a Baghdad television station broadcast a report saying a survey was being carried out by terrorists and anybody conducting it or answering questions would be arrested. Those organising the survey subsequently arranged to be accompanied by a person of standing in the community to allay suspicions.

The study, entitled "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005-2009", is by Dr Busby, Malak Hamdan and Entesar Ariabi, and concludes that anecdotal evidence of a sharp rise in cancer and congenital birth defects is correct. Infant mortality was found to be 80 per 1,000 births compared to 19 in Egypt, 17 in Jordan and 9.7 in Kuwait. The report says that the types of cancer are "similar to that in the Hiroshima survivors who were exposed to ionising radiation from the bomb and uranium in the fallout".

Did you actually read this, or did you just wave it off?

507 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:36:11pm

re: #504 WindUpBird

A politician wanting to know where resources in politics come from should not be out of bounds for discussion.

it's not "stupid", it's not anything, it's part of the system.

If there was a massive coordinated incredibly specific nasty talking point against jewish people or israel that started hitting all the news cycles, all talking points making jewish people into the enemy, all the different blogs and media outlets.

...and politicians wanted to know where it was coming from, who was funding it?

Everyone here in the comments who's like OMG NANCY PEOLOSSEEE BIG BROTHER THAT EVIL WITCH SHE'S SO OLD would be 100% for finding out who was at the bottom of it.

Guara

fucking

teed.

I would love to know who funded all the anti-prop 8 people?

508 sagehen  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:37:43pm

re: #479 Conservative Moonbat

The last combat troops just pulled out of Iraq btw. The war is officially over.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

509 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:38:34pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001.

That's a piss poor reason to respect a person, but a perfectly valid reason for tiptoeing around their loss like some disgusting, obsequious funeral director.

To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew.

.

So what?

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?

-Hillel the Elder

510 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 5:39:17pm

re: #484 blueraven


Will a link to LGF suffice?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

511 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 6:02:06pm

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

K - s mght nd D dsgr wth Td lsn n ths ss, rspct hm nsfr s h lst hs wf n //. T tht xtnt, h s Bttr Mn thn frm Chrstn Pnt f Vw. m NT Chrstn. m n ld Tstmnt Jw. ndrstnd nd ccpt tht "n y fr n y, tc." ws lmttn f Pnshmnt n ts D. m ls Sclr mrcn nd blv n qlt f Rcs, rlgns, sxs, tc. Th slmc cnstrct f Sh'rh DS NT. d, thrfr - pps Sh'rh nd th slmst drm f Wrld Dmntn. Rmmbr tht "Mn Kmpf, pplr bk n th slmc wrld s trnsltd nt rbc s "M Jhd" jst s th rbc wrd fr Slv nd Blck Prsn r n nd th sm - "bd." M sttmnts m nt b Pltcll Crrct td, hwvr, th r CCRT. Mr. Mhmmd , y m rs yrs f Hmn Prgrss vr M DD CLD BD. Tht s LL! - Dr. Shalit

re: #427 Dr. Shalit

.M.- SRL "th" Wll . nd f "th " hv trbl" Srl sm schl r nthr f slmc Jrsprdnc Wll NT. Tqqh, Tqqh br lls, br lls m dn wlt. -Dr. Shalit-

While I appreciate some of your past contributions, Dr. Shalit, you are dead wrong if you're trying to tie radical Islamists with Iman Rauf and Cordoba House/Park51.

Don't be on the side of bigots, xenophobes, and haters...

512 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 6:05:53pm

Now a growing chorus of geniuses on the 'Being Conservative' Facebook page are calling for the Park51 project to be built.... so they can crash a plane into it or bomb it.

*facepalm*

513 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 9:06:28pm

re: #487 Dr. Shalit

Arguably Arabic and otherwise appropriated from conquered Hindus and/or Persians. Other than Foreign Patent Recognition - "How Many Patents has the Saudi Patent Office issued in the last TEN (10) YEARS. Answer IS Probably Less than 1000. New Ideas are generally Not the Stock in Trade of the 'DAR AL Islam." Need I sY MORE? -DR. SHALIT-

Seriously, how have you escaped being banned this long? Apparently new ideas aren't exactly your thing either.

514 BlackFedora  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 9:34:28pm

Decency.

Ted Olson has it.

515 Flavia  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 11:09:53pm

re: #40 Varek Raith

I question the Wisdom™ of building a Catholic Church near a playground.
I question the Wisdom™ of building an Evangelical Church near an abortion clinic.
Funny how bigoted that sounds when it's your own religion being broadbrushed.

And what if you DO think that, say, an "abortion counseling center" NOT be erected near the church where George Tiller was killed? Or a "Mormon Outreach Center" right next to a Jewish cemetery? The Pope, himself, told the nuns to leave Auschwitz.

There are some places where people have to be sensitive, even if they, themselves, are not guilty. And it has nothing to do with bigotry.

It's one thing if you think someone is trampling on US law & ideals to try to stop this mosque. Those people are anti-American scumbags & deserve whatever anyone says to them. But it's another to pretend that reasonable people don't have some issues with it that have nothing to do with "hating all Muslims."

516 Flavia  Wed, Aug 18, 2010 11:37:26pm

I call BS on this. No Jew uses the term "Old Testament"; we consider the term accidentally derogatory at best. The rest just sounds hysterical in the medical sense.

re: #389 Dr. Shalit

OK -

As I might and DO disagree with Ted Olson on this issue, I respect him insofar as he lost his wife on 9/11/2001. To that extent, he is a Better Man than I from a Christian Point of View. I am NOT a Christian. I am an Old Testament Jew. I understand and accept that "an eye for an eye, etc." was a limitation of Punishment in its Day. I am also a Secular American and believe in equality of Races, religions, sexes, etc. The Islamic construct of Sha'ariah DOES NOT.
I do, therefore - oppose Sha'ariah and the Islamist dream of World Domination. Remember that "Mein Kampf, a popular book in the Islamic world is translated into Arabic as "MY Jihad" just as the Arabic word for Slave and Black Person are one and the same - "Abid." MY statements may not be Politically Correct today, however, they are ACCURATE. Mr. Muhammed , you may erase 1000 years of Human Progress over MY DEAD COLD BODY. That is ALL! - Dr. Shalit

517 Yashmak  Thu, Aug 19, 2010 8:02:46am

Shalit, I didn't rre: #389 Dr. Shalit

Based on your statement, it seems your position is that building the Cordoba house is a move towards "erasing 1000 years of human progress". Care to explain how? I'm genuinely curious.

Is it that they are speaking out against violent jihad? Is that what is in danger of erasing 1000 years of human progress? In fact, that itself is a huge step, and constitutes human progress of it's own. I just can't make any sense of what you've said.


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