Glenn Beck’s Rally: No Signs Allowed

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Wingnuts • Sat Aug 21, 2010 at 11:57 am PDT • Views: 2,768

LGF reader Linden Arden noticed a hilarious rule posted at Glenn Beck’s site, instructing people who plan on attending his rally later this month that there will be no signs of any kind allowed.

NO signs (political or otherwise) as they may deter from the peaceful message we are bringing to Washington.

“Deter from?” Is English his first language?

But it’s pretty obvious why he’s banning all signs.

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957 comments

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1 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:03:05pm

No signs. Anyone with the First Amendment on a placard will be ...dis-invited.

2 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:03:29pm

He's chicken.

3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:04:23pm

So, who's gonna volunteer to show up blasting this on a boom-box.

4 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:04:33pm

re: #1 abolitionist

you mean invited not to partisapate

5 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:05:00pm

Freedom of [censored]!

6 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:12:19pm

Funny hats optional.

7 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:13:16pm

Get a feeling that even Beck's starting to realize that these loonies are getting out of hand?

8 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:18:06pm

Glenn Beck's refudiation of signage deters from our rights under the constition.

9 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:20:11pm

Should we tell him that his fear of signs...is itself a sign? And i don't mean that in a good way. Hell, they let football crowds bring signs to the stadium...meaning that even Beck thinks his crowd is dumber than your average football crowd.

Bad sign...

10 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:20:27pm
How can I volunteer?
The best way is to help us spread the word about the rally. Please hand our flyer out to your family and friends, and make sure your community is aware—whether that’s your neighborhood, church, school, office, etc.

For more information email us at serve@glennbeck.com

Serve? They really couldn't think of a better address for that?

"How to Serve Wingnuts"

It's a pop-up book!

11 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:22:11pm

Are paper mache puppets allowed?

12 Winny Spencer  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:22:30pm

re: #8 JasonA
Well, I don't think he misunderestimates his audience.

13 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:22:34pm

It's going to be hot, bring a blanket.

14 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:23:53pm

re: #11 NJDhockeyfan

Are paper mache puppets allowed?

Just poop!

15 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:26:20pm

I'll bet money that we get to see some really interesting T-Shirts at this rally.

16 mattand  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:27:09pm

This event is taking place on public land on the Mall, right? Can Beck and Friends legally ban and/or enforce this?

17 ihateronpaul  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:27:38pm

I have a sign for glenn beck

……………./´¯/)
……………/…./
…………../…./
……../´¯/’..’/´¯¯`·¸
…../’/../…./……./¨¯
…(‘(…………. ¯~/’..’)
….…………….’…../
…..’'……………_.·´
…….…………..(
……..…………..

18 ihateronpaul  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:27:57pm

re: #17 ihateronpaul

my middle finger ascii did not work as planned :/

19 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:28:02pm

Jesus! That video is horribly disheartening. I couldn't finish watching it.

I got a laugh out of the fat boys with signs warning about revolution though. They'd be too slow to take cover and they'd have trouble finding cover big enough to hide behind. :D

20 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:28:33pm

re: #15 JasonA

I'll bet money that we get to see some really interesting T-Shirts at this rally.

"Miss, you'll have to remove your T-shirt immediately."

21 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:28:58pm

re: #16 mattand

This event is taking place on public land on the Mall, right? Can Beck and Friends legally ban and/or enforce this?

I don't think they care about the law. Only their quest for power interests them.

22 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:30:52pm

re: #16 mattand

This event is taking place on public land on the Mall, right? Can Beck and Friends legally ban and/or enforce this?

Some of this might be National Park Service rules, but a bunch of it comes down to Beck not being able to control the freak show he started.

23 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:31:30pm

It's to late too stop Marxist Joker NobamAlinsky!!! ACORN has already ordered the ovens with money from the Porkulus!1!!ty

24 FullRoller  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:33:21pm

I just love it when someone takes the time to search for the 2% "wacko contingent" that's part of any gathering/protest and presents them as the majority of that gathering/protest.

Of course, if they could just week out the religious-right-wing/moral-majority nutbags, things would be a lot better for them.

25 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:34:58pm

re: #24 FullRoller

2%, huh?

26 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:36:24pm

RUN! It's a beckian!

///

27 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:36:42pm

re: #18 ihateronpaul

my middle finger ascii did not work as planned :/

+1 for effort, though...

28 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:37:20pm

re: #19 Romantic Heretic

Jesus! That video is horribly disheartening. I couldn't finish watching it.

I got a laugh out of the fat boys with signs warning about revolution though. They'd be too slow to take cover and they'd have trouble finding cover big enough to hide behind. :D

The joke's on them...if things go poorly, we're using them for cover!

29 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:38:46pm

re: #24 FullRoller

I just love it when someone takes the time to search for the 2% "wacko contingent" that's part of any gathering/protest and presents them as the majority of that gathering/protest.

Of course, if they could just week out the religious-right-wing/moral-majority nutbags, things would be a lot better for them.

I just love it when a gathering doesn't have the moral nutsack to kick the wacko contingent out through the proverbial window. Follow?

30 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:38:59pm

re: #24 FullRoller
Waite for it…..
Waaaiiittteee for it…

31 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:39:29pm

now!

32 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:42:09pm

re: #24 FullRoller

I just love it when someone takes the time to search for the 2% "wacko contingent" that's part of any gathering/protest and presents them as the majority of that gathering/protest.

Of course, if they could just week out the religious-right-wing/moral-majority nutbags, things would be a lot better for them.

oh, and full disclosure: the -1 wasn't for a dissenting viewpoint...it was for the banality. bring a better game.

33 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:42:20pm

re: #4 spikester

you mean invited not to partisapate

re: #30 spikester

Waite for it…..
Waaaiiittteee for it…

Waiting for your vocabulary builder to arrive?

34 webevintage  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:42:32pm

re: #24 FullRoller

ZZZ

35 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:43:03pm

re: #30 spikester

Waite for it…..
Waaaiiittteee for it…

would you say that FullRoller is a voice of descent...?

36 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:43:16pm

re: #33 JasonA

so pettie

37 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:44:00pm

re: #36 spikester

so pettie

Oh, do go on.

38 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:44:40pm

comeon guys
you like play ground bullys

39 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:46:56pm

re: #38 spikester

comeon guys
you like play ground bullys

Yeah, I like play ground bullies. Especially the female ones. They always got a rise out of me.

40 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:48:38pm

re: #39 JasonA

now we are down to sex
Whats next from such towering intellect

41 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:49:13pm

re: #39 JasonA

fights over you win

42 garhighway  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:49:57pm

Nice column from Dick Cavett in today's NYT:

[Link: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...]

He's a classy, smart guy.

43 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:51:50pm

re: #40 spikester

now we are down to sex
Whats next from such towering intellect

Don't get your thong stuck...he's just trying to play slowly enough for you to keep up.

44 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:52:16pm

"Your son deserved to die in Iraq if he was stupid enough to go over there.”

Those were the chilling words yelled at Gold Star mother Debbie Lee by Jodie Evans and her Code Pink gang as they were trashing a recruiting station in Berkley, CA a few years ago. Lee had joined others in a counter-protest against the Code Pink action.

“Disgust” is a word that, while appropriate, doesn’t begin to carry the heft required to describe my feeling for anyone who would say that to any person who has lost a son or daughter in war – any war - whether I agreed with the war or not. And I couldn’t help but wonder if Evans ever said that to Cindy Sheehan.

Debbie Lee’s son, Marc Alan Lee, was the first Navy SEAL to lose his life in OIF. Lee has worked ceaselessly since then to honor her son’s memory by standing for our troops, thanking them personally – by the thousands – for what they’ve done and making sure “they have the funding, benefits, health care, respect, and support they need.”

To be confronted like she was by the absolute scum that people the Code Pink movement - who always claim to “support the troops but not the war”, makes me physically ill. As for their claim of “supporting the troops and not the war”, this is the same crew who raised and sent $600,000 to the insurgents in Fallujah during the battle there, calling the insurgents “freedom fighting heroes”.

I don’t know about you, but I consider such activity traitorous at the least. And now this traitor is engaged in fundraising for Jerry Brown, the Democratic candidate for Governor in California.

If I were Brown, and I wanted to win the election I’d disassociate myself with this traitorous pink scum as quickly as possible and donate all the money she’s raised to a charity of Debbie Lee’s choosing.

45 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:53:25pm

re: #38 spikester

Is it really that hard to take the five seconds to use spellcheck before posting?

And do you really consider it 'bullying' for people to point out that you constantly misspell words?

Were the bullies at your school also part of the forensic society or something?

46 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:53:39pm

re: #43 Aceofwhat?

Don't get your thong stuck...he's just trying to play slowly enough for you to keep up.

If I go any slower I'll stall and rapidly dissent.

47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:54:58pm

How can this "Restoring Honor" rally possibly go wrong when it gets such a significant celebrity endorsement?
/

48 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:55:27pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Do you have any reputable source saying that he's going to a fundraiser at her house?

What I"m seeing is that the story is sourced at Brietbart.

49 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:57:23pm

re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth

How can this "Restoring Honor" rally possibly go wrong when it gets such a significant celebrity endorsement?
/

I love how she says "hundreds of thousands of Americans" while the text just says "Thousands of Americans." Starting with the hazy numbers already, I see.

50 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:58:23pm

re: #48 Obdicut

Do you have any reputable source saying that he's going to a fundraiser at her house?

What I"m seeing is that the story is sourced at Brietbart.

Not my story. I found it at Blackfive through Memorandum. Why don't you ask them?

51 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:59:03pm

re: #42 garhighway

Nice column from Dick Cavett in today's NYT:

[Link: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...]

He's a classy, smart guy.

Good to see. I used to watch his show every night one summer when I had an overnight babysitting job. He got me through a tough summer.

52 garhighway  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:59:56pm

re: #48 Obdicut

Do you have any reputable source saying that he's going to a fundraiser at her house?

What I"m seeing is that the story is sourced at Brietbart.

Old legal maxim:

"If the law is in your favor, argue the law. If the facts are in your favor, argue the facts. If neither the law nor the facts are in your favor, pound the table."

This is table pounding.

53 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:00:18pm

re: #49 JasonA

Oh, ye of little faith. Just you wait, there will be one million-thousand-and-elevnty True PatriotsTM there. You can count on it.
/

54 garhighway  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:00:45pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Not my story. I found it at Blackfive through Memorandum. Why don't you ask them?

You found it in the gutter.

55 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:00:57pm

re: #45 Obdicut

Is it really that hard to take the five seconds to use spellcheck before posting?

And do you really consider it 'bullying' for people to point out that you constantly misspell words?

Were the bullies at your school also part of the forensic society or something?

It's so frequent that part of me wonders if the spelling isn't an attempt to troll...can any one really screw up that many simple words on accident, especially with the little red warning line warning them that the interwebs machine has no idea what word they recently attempted to type?

56 Conservative Moonbat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:01:18pm

What about flags? Did he say anything about flags?

57 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:01:35pm

re: #53 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, ye of little faith. Just you wait, there will be one million-thousand-and-elevnty True PatriotsTM there. You can count on it.
/

It's so hard to tell the true patriots from the wishy-washy ones without the signs.

58 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:02:24pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Not my story. I found it at Blackfive through Memorandum. Why don't you ask them?

That's weak, dude. You're the one posting it-- if you don't think it has any credibility, why post it? Why not factcheck it first?

I'll give his campaign a call, and see if they can confirm or deny it.

59 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:02:39pm

I looked around for what honor has been lost that needs to be restored. The event is to honor members of the military. I think it's insulting to imply they've lost their honor somehow.

60 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:03:06pm

re: #54 garhighway

You found it in the gutter.

What a classy statement. I bet you always say the same thing when someone posts links to HuffPo, DKos, or DU. I'm sure of it.

//

61 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:03:59pm

re: #58 Obdicut

That's weak, dude. You're the one posting it-- if you don't think it has any credibility, why post it? Why not factcheck it first?

I'll give his campaign a call, and see if they can confirm or deny it.

Please let us know what his office says. I'm curious.

62 garhighway  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:04:13pm

re: #60 NJDhockeyfan

What a classy statement. I bet you always say the same thing when someone posts links to HuffPo, DKos, or DU. I'm sure of it.

//

You really haven't had enough of Breitbart? You really think he's a crediblele source?

63 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:04:52pm

re: #60 NJDhockeyfan

What a classy statement. I bet you always say the same thing when someone posts links to HuffPo, DKos, or DU. I'm sure of it.

//

For what it's worth, I usually will only link to one of those if there are links to an actual piece of journalism in the article or diary.

64 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:05:14pm
65 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:05:33pm

re: #62 garhighway

You really haven't had enough of Breitbart? You really think he's a crediblele source?

Breitbart now owns Memorandum & Blackfive? That's news to me!

66 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:06:17pm

re: #1 abolitionist

No signs. Anyone with the First Amendment on a placard will be ...dis-invited.

Gotta love it, they all say they are trying to defend the constitution from the "evil socialists" then tell people they have no right to exercise their constitutional right to peacefully protest whatever the hell they choose to.

/Besides photo number 1 above always cracks me up, really? You can't even spell Ni**er correctly? I always want to ask "Are you new to the racist circles or just a really, really stupid racist?" :p

67 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:08:11pm

re: #57 JasonA

It's so hard to tell the true patriots from the wishy-washy ones without the signs.

Helps more than a little spotting the anarchists and assorted crazies, too.

68 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:08:20pm

re: #63 JasonA

For what it's worth, I usually will only link to one of those if there are links to an actual piece of journalism in the article or diary.

I rarely go to those sites. Whenever I do I feel sick from reading all the hateful posts. LGF is much better than any of those skanky blogs.

69 garhighway  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #65 NJDhockeyfan

Breitbart now owns Memorandum & Blackfive? That's news to me!

Did you notice that the money quote is a link? To Breitbart? He's your source.

70 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:08:43pm

re: #65 NJDhockeyfan

Breitbart now owns Memorandum & Blackfive? That's news to me!

Blackfive linked to Breitbart as the source of the story. Try to keep up at least with your own links.

71 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:09:27pm

It's Saturday, so they're not picking up.

I am seeing absolutely nothing about this fundraising event on CodePink's website, nor on Brown's.

I can find no source for the story other than Breitbart.

72 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:10:11pm

re: #71 Obdicut

Variety has it:

Others raising in the near future: Jerry Brown will be at the Venice home of Jodie Evans for a $500-per-person event on Saturday, with a host list that includes Frank Gehry, Sally Kellerman, Bill Press, Stanley Sheinbaum, Hope Warschaw and Gail Zappa.

Read more: [Link: www.wilshireandwashington.com...]

73 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:12:49pm

re: #69 garhighway

re: #70 wrenchwench

Someone on Blackfive posted Jerry Brown's email, address, and phone number if this story is really upsetting you.

74 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:13:07pm

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

Please let us know what his office says. I'm curious.

They're off for the weekend, or at least, the operator is.


Given that this story just went out, that I can find nothing about it anywhere other than linking to Brietbart, it stinks to high heaven, to me.

The one quote that they supposedly have about it from Sterling Clifford, a spokesperson for Brown goes to a page without said quote.

75 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:13:34pm

re: #73 NJDhockeyfan

Do I seem upset?

76 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:15:08pm

re: #72 jaunte

Variety has it:

No way...Breitbart is somehow involved in making up that story! Conspiracy I say!

Have you phoned all the people associated with the story to make sure it's correct and Andrew Breitbart had nothing to do with it?

//

77 That's Glenn Beck to you  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:15:32pm

You know, you people ought to at least try to read the Constitution sometime.

This is about restoring Honor in a manner that is Constitutional. the Constitution says:

"Goeth thee who hath had honour offended and seek to bespoke at thine public squareth. Assembleth thee without signs so as to assemble thineselves peaceably. So commandeth we the founding fathers and bearers of the gold standard."

Right there in the Constitution. In the middle part. Right after "no sex with dogs" and above the numerology section that warns of a Kenyan born anti-Christ.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:16:36pm

re: #75 wrenchwench

Do I seem upset?

Tremendously. I see stories posted on here all the time I disagree with and don't lose it like you all did. Goodness, get a hold of yourself.

80 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:17:47pm

re: #77 That's Glenn Beck to you

You know, you people ought to at least try to read the Constitution sometime.

This is about restoring Honor in a manner that is Constitutional. the Constitution says:

"Goeth thee who hath had honour offended and seek to bespoke at thine public squareth. Assembleth thee without signs so as to assemble thineselves peaceably. So commandeth we the founding fathers and bearers of the gold standard."

Right there in the Constitution. In the middle part. Right after "no sex with dogs" and above the numerology section that warns of a Kenyan born anti-Christ.

Dang. You sprinkled too much PCP on your joint, dude.

82 webevintage  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:18:41pm

re: #57 JasonA

It's so hard to tell the true patriots from the wishy-washy ones without the signs.

No worries, the "true patriots" will have on the tricorne hats...

83 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:18:47pm

re: #72 jaunte

Thanks. I'm still dubious, given that nobody else has reported on this other than Brietbart, but the Variety tag does make it seem likely.

However, that story in Variety doesn't say that Brown will be there, unlike some of the other ones. But, looking into Jodie Evans-- she used to be Brown's campaign manager, back in the day, and says they're personal friends.

That alone is pretty crappy, though of course she wasn't Code Pink back then.

84 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:20:35pm

re: #79 NJDhockeyfan

Tremendously. I see stories posted on here all the time I disagree with and don't lose it like you all did. Goodness, get a hold of yourself.

All I suggested was that you could strive to be aware of who the link you posted links to. I did not address the content. I guess you're feeling piled upon? I didn't mean to pile, but if you're putting links out there, you're gonna get comments.

85 pharmmajor  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:22:00pm

No signs allowed?! Well this just proves that Beck is a secret Muslim socialist infiltrator who wants to crush our first amendment rights.

86 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:23:03pm

re: #71 Obdicut

It's Saturday, so they're not picking up.

I am seeing absolutely nothing about this fundraising event on CodePink's website, nor on Brown's.

I can find no source for the story other than Breitbart.

+1 for actually calling, though. awesome.

87 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:23:06pm

re: #80 MandyManners

Dang. You sprinkled too much PCP on your joint, dude.

Who knew Glenn likes to get wet?

/Training Day

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:23:45pm

Not sure if this thought has been posted, but what do ya think the people's signs who will be protesting will say?

89 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:24:20pm

re: #78 MandyManners

Moonbeam has zero chance of becoming governor of CA again.

90 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:24:21pm

re: #68 NJDhockeyfan

I rarely go to those sites. Whenever I do I feel sick from reading all the hateful posts.

Gotcha. Well, I guess Blackfive is much more peaceful, then...

91 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:26:07pm

re: #86 Aceofwhat?

+1 for actually calling, though. awesome.

Well, I hadn't know that she used to be his campaign manager back in the day-- that gives the story a lot more credibility.

I really want Brown for governor-- he's extremely solid on science, and he actually knows how the state works-- but if this is true he's being an ass and a half.

92 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:26:19pm

re: #90 JasonA

Gotcha. Well, I guess Blackfive is much more peaceful, then...

It's a military blog. You have something against military blogs of something?

93 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:28:13pm

re: #91 Obdicut

It's rare for a politician to turn down campaign cash, no matter where it comes from.

94 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:28:46pm

re: #89 Racer X

Moonbeam has zero chance of becoming governor of CA again.

A) He got nicknamed "Moonbeam" by Ryoko, who later said he wished he'd never said it. He got nicknamed that because he wanted to get a satellite for emergency communications-- something that eventually happened and has been a good thing.

B) Are you nuts? He's got an excellent chance of winning the governorship. Certainly not zero.

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

95 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:29:14pm

re: #94 Obdicut

Satellites?

A liberal plot! :D

96 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:29:37pm

I can't find anything about it at Brown's site.

97 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:30:15pm

It was my understanding that Beck was going to be speaking from the Lincoln Memorial. I don't see how he expects to enforce his own rules on people in an open-air public space. This ought to be interesting.

98 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:30:27pm

re: #94 Obdicut

A) He got nicknamed "Moonbeam" by Ryoko, who later said he wished he'd never said it. He got nicknamed that because he wanted to get a satellite for emergency communications-- something that eventually happened and has been a good thing.

B) Are you nuts? He's got an excellent chance of winning the governorship. Certainly not zero.

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

Apparently being down by 1% means you can't win. Who knew?

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:31:38pm

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

Apparently being down by 1% means you can't win. Who knew?

hahahahahaha

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:31:56pm

re: #97 elbruce

It was my understanding that Beck was going to be speaking from the Lincoln Memorial. I don't see how he expects to enforce his own rules on people in an open-air public space. This ought to be interesting.

He has rented X amount of space. Put up barriers.

101 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:32:12pm

Found this at the SFGate Blg site.

Not one, but TWO conservative protests of Jerry Brown

"A bigger throwdown may happen Saturday in L.A. where Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans is throwing a fundraiser for Jerry at her home. Evans ran Jerry's 1992 presidential campaign, and we know how that turned out."

They cite Melanie Morgan as their source.

102 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:32:29pm

I searched for Jodie Evans at CP's site.

Share your voice during the week of August 25 to 31 — the week that most of the US troops will return from Iraq.

Read the article on Alternet: [Link: www.alternet.org...]

I don't know if I should.

103 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:32:50pm

re: #91 Obdicut

Obdicut
Sat, Aug 21, 2010 11:06:20am


What a travesty that man is. From lying about whether US Presidents have ever met with dictators (they have, numerous times) in order to smear Obama, to pandering to the religious right, to hypocritically going after Clinton while himself having an affair, he is like a portrait of what's wrong with politics today. No integrity, no real ideas, nothing but the desire for power.

the bold statement sounds like something the anti-Glen Beck would say
Turds on the rug
could you or your poesy back that up?
my search engs come up with nothing

104 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:32:56pm

Stargazer Jack Horkheimer has died. RIP.

105 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:33:27pm

re: #101 Bubblehead II

IIRC, Morgan either writes for WND or has a link there.

106 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:33:43pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

It's a military blog. You have something against military blogs of something?

Not necessarily. I might not like some of the things they say, though.

I'm heading to NYC tomorrow to be there for the rally at Ground Zero against the mosque-asaurus on Sunday at noon.

That's a new one.

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:33:48pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

It's a military blog. You have something against military blogs of something?

When a dude associates with Breitbart, they deserve some measure of suspicion

his name's right there in the heading next to BB, dude

but you just keep on keeping on with your false equivalency, with your tu quoque, with your trying to call Kos a hate site because you don't actually understand how diaries on Kos work

108 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:34:37pm

re: #101 Bubblehead II

Found this at the SFGate Blg site.

Not one, but TWO conservative protests of Jerry Brown

"A bigger throwdown may happen Saturday in L.A. where Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans is throwing a fundraiser for Jerry at her home. Evans ran Jerry's 1992 presidential campaign, and we know how that turned out."

They cite Melanie Morgan as their source.


I read at CFP that one protest will be outside her house.

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:35:01pm

re: #103 spikester

what's a poesy?

110 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:35:03pm

re: #94 Obdicut

You're right. Probably not zero.

'Governor Whitman' has a nice ring to it.

111 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:35:19pm

re: #103 spikester

Obdicut
Sat, Aug 21, 2010 11:06:20am

What a travesty that man is. From lying about whether US Presidents have ever met with dictators (they have, numerous times) in order to smear Obama, to pandering to the religious right, to hypocritically going after Clinton while himself having an affair, he is like a portrait of what's wrong with politics today. No integrity, no real ideas, nothing but the desire for power.

the bold statement sounds like something the anti-Glen Beck would say
Turds on the rug
could you or your poesy back that up?
my search engs come up with nothing

A search engine can't teach you decades of political history.

112 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:35:23pm

Does Brown know about CP's support of the flotilla?

113 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:36:18pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

what's a poesy?

All I know is I went ring around the rosey and ended up with a pocket full of them.
/

114 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:37:01pm

re: #103 spikester

What on earth are you talking about, dude? Do you think Reagan never met with Gorbachev? That Bush didn't meet with Putin?

Gingrich's statement:


GINGRICH: But we didn’t rush over, smile, and greet Russian dictators. We understood who they were.

Reality:

Image: russian3.jpg

115 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:37:12pm

re: #111 Fozzie Bear

A search engine can't teach you decades of political history.

To lose one's mind it's uh...well it totally sucks

116 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:37:23pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

dont know
was just looking for something spell check would let thru

117 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:37:28pm

re: #110 Racer X

You're right. Probably not zero.

'Governor Whitman' has a nice ring to it.

Name one policy of hers that you like.

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:38:09pm

re: #116 spikester

dont know
was just looking for something spell check would let thru

I went to school!

I actually know how to spell!

119 webevintage  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:38:25pm

re: #103 spikester

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

[Link: www.politico.com...]

[Link: crooksandliars.com...]

120 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:38:31pm

re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth

How can this "Restoring Honor" rally possibly go wrong when it gets such a significant celebrity endorsement?
/

This one's a doozie, too:

Nineteen seconds of teh crazee. Who knew T. Paine was a Cassandra?

Heh.

121 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:38:53pm

She looks thirsty..

Image: 1307_popsign.jpg

122 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:39:05pm

re: #118 WindUpBird

public school?

123 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:39:09pm

Now, are we certain that spikester isn't YL92? :D seems sorta dumb in a suspiciously interesting way, if you get what I mean

124 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:39:25pm

re: #121 cliffster

Oh, my stars.

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:40:08pm

re: #121 cliffster

Heh.

126 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:40:17pm

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

She does.

127 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:40:19pm

re: #121 cliffster

There's something for the Coke graphic artists little list of 'don'ts'.

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:41:36pm

re: #122 spikester

public school?

yeah, I also learned to program C++ in public school, learned how to network PCs in public school, learned how to use process cameras and QuarkXPress (this was the early 1990s) and paste up print ready mechanicals for newspapers and magazine covers in public achool


Any other questions, mister 92?

129 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:41:52pm

re: #107 WindUpBird

When a dude associates with Breitbart, they deserve some measure of suspicion

his name's right there in the heading next to BB, dude

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?


but you just keep on keeping on with your false equivalency, with your tu quoque, with your trying to call Kos a hate site because you don't actually understand how diaries on Kos work

I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about. In fact Charles has a load of posts right here at LGF showing the hate right there.

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:42:50pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?

I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about. In fact Charles has a load of posts right here at LGF showing the hate right there.

You're sorta like Spare is about Islam, but you're about Kos

I'll leave you to your internet blogfeud hrrgl burrgls :)

131 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:43:00pm

re: #108 MandyManners

Yep, but it sounds like it will be a waste of time.

Anyways, the mere mention of the antiwar activists at Code Pink has Melanie Morgan -- former KSFO talk show host, Tea Party organizer and Chuck DeVore for Senate organizer -- hopping mad. Nay, "spitting mad." She is calling all conservative comers for a protest of the fundraiser.

Yes, you read that right: There will be a protest of a Code Pink organizer's event in LA by a Marin County conservative...oh, God, the room is spinning. Minimun contribution to get in: $250. Max: $25,900. Sounds more like a Code Green event.

132 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?


I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about. In fact Charles has a load of posts right here at LGF showing the hate right there.


Markos "Screw 'em" Moulitsas?

133 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:43:54pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Name one policy of hers that you like.

Oh shit.

Though Whitman has contributed to a few Democrats, including Senator Barbara Boxer; donating $4,000 to her campaign and serving on the "Friends of Boxer" committee in 2004, she donated more than $225,000.00 during the same period to Republicans,

Forget it. She is dead to me.

134 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:44:21pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

yeah, I also learned to program C++ in public school, learned how to network PCs in public school, learned how to use process cameras and QuarkXPress (this was the early 1990s) and paste up print ready mechanicals for newspapers and magazine covers in public achool

Any other questions, mister 92?

I took every cooking class in skool. Always first period. On the days we actually cooked, 2 doobies beforehand. :)

135 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:44:22pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

I'm more inclined to believe Debbie Lee than the Code Pink people, definitely. But posting at Brietbart shows a severe lack of judgement on her part. Or just total naiveté.

136 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:44:31pm

re: #131 Bubblehead II

Yep, but it sounds like it will be a waste of time.

Anyways, the mere mention of the antiwar activists at Code Pink has Melanie Morgan -- former KSFO talk show host, Tea Party organizer and Chuck DeVore for Senate organizer -- hopping mad. Nay, "spitting mad." She is calling all conservative comers for a protest of the fundraiser.

Yes, you read that right: There will be a protest of a Code Pink organizer's event in LA by a Marin County conservative...oh, God, the room is spinning. Minimun contribution to get in: $250. Max: $25,900. Sounds more like a Code Green event.

No protest is a waste of time.

137 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:44:39pm

re: #91 Obdicut

I really want Brown for governor-- he's extremely solid on science, and he actually knows how the state works-- but if this is true he's being an ass and a half.

eh. he's..."not opposed" to nuclear power. anyone who greatly desires to improve the environment and doesn't have some form of nuclear power front-and-center in their plan isn't "solid on science".

just sayin'.

138 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:45:00pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

"mister 92?"
don't get it...
I could tell from your really huge karma you were a...whats the word I'm looking for?
really smart guy...thats it

139 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:45:05pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?

It makes her someone who publishes at a site that has been totally discredited.

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:45:46pm

I wonder how many coordinated racist smears that get national media attention and reach millions of people via cable news, that one weirdo Code Pink woman is worth?

I'm guessing according to NJD, like a million

somewhere a weirdo code pink lady was a dick, it's totally worth associating with breitbart. ELL OH ELL

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:46:00pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Markos "Screw 'em" Moulitsas?

lolololol

Never stop Mandy

we love you so much

142 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:46:10pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?

I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about. In fact Charles has a load of posts right here at LGF showing the hate right there.

If what she has to say has any validity at all, she can find somewhere besides Breitbart's site to post it.

143 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:46:11pm

Meg Whitman

I'm voting for Meg.

Pfffttthh!

144 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:46:40pm

re: #138 spikester

"mister 92?"
don't get it...
I could tell from your really huge karma you were a...whats the word I'm looking for?
really smart guy...thats it

Wow, he DOES have huge Karma...

145 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:47:15pm

re: #143 Racer X

Whitman has received numerous awards and accolades. On more than one occasion, named among the Top Five most powerful women by Fortune Magazine .[61] Harvard Business Review has named her the eighth-best-performing CEO of the past decade[62] as well as having the Financial Times name her as one the 50 faces that shaped the decade.[63]

146 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:47:33pm

Any Californians here paying an AT&T phone bill?

On June 1, the day the AT&T PAC gave Whitman $25,900, the PAC gave the same amount to Brown. Poizner didn’t receive a contribution.[Link: californiawatch.org...]
147 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:48:06pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

Wow, he DOES have huge Karma...

I'm always dinging WUB and I'm a conservative. OH NOES!!

148 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:48:08pm

Beer run. bbiab

149 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:48:23pm

0re: #132 MandyManners

Markos "Screw 'em" Moulitsas?

Yes, that the asshole. Some here are very fond of him though.

150 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:48:49pm

re: #148 Bubblehead II

Beer run. bbiab

Grab me a 1.75, please.:)

151 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:49:56pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

lolololol

Never stop Mandy

we love you so much

You think a bunch of dead men are funny?

152 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:50:30pm

re: #145 Racer X

Whitman has received numerous awards and accolades. On more than one occasion, named among the Top Five most powerful women by Fortune Magazine .[61] Harvard Business Review has named her the eighth-best-performing CEO of the past decade[62] as well as having the Financial Times name her as one the 50 faces that shaped the decade.[63]

This matters more than her business acumen:

Education

In an interview with John and Ken, talk show hosts in the LA area, Whitman said she wanted the Latino children (illegals included) to get a "good K-12 education." However, "As governor, Meg will support policies that will not allow undocumented immigrants admission to state-funded institutions of higher education, such as UC, CSU and community colleges."[36]

The former statement created controversy when Whitman launched a Spanish-language television ad campaign in June 2010 during the World Cup Soccer Games. One advertisement is quoted by the LA times that "The Latino kids attending public schools in California today will be tomorrow's doctors, engineers, businessmen and teachers."[37]
[edit] Environment

She has said that if elected, on her first day[38] she would suspend AB 32, the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006, to study its potential economic implications.[39] At the state GOP Convention in March 2010, Whitman described California Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's climate change bill as a "job-killer."[40] On water issues, Whitman opposes water conservation measures in the Central Valley and has suggested President Obama should overturn a federal judge's ruling under provisions in the Endangered Species Act.[41]
[edit] Marriage

Whitman supported California's Proposition 8 in 2008, which reversed In re Marriage Cases and defined marriage as a union between one man and one woman in the state. Whitman believes that the same-sex marriages that took place before the ban should be recognized, and that gay and lesbian couples should be permitted to adopt children.[42] Whitman has criticized Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Attorney General Jerry Brown for not defending Proposition 8 in the federal judicial system.[43] Whitman is a supporter of civil unions.[42]
[edit] Abortion

She voted in favor of California Proposition 4, an initiative that requires minors to notify a parent prior to requesting an abortion, except in certain cases. Whitman supports abortion rights, but not late-term abortion.[44]

Yeah, that's the kind of policy we clearly need. /

153 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:50:35pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about.

This made me actually laugh. That should be a bumper sticker, right here.

154 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:50:41pm

re: #148 Bubblehead II

Beer run. bbiab

I'll try the Mothership Wit on WUB's recommendation. It sounds tasty.

155 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:50:46pm

re: #144 wrenchwench
More than you in less than a year

156 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:51:13pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

what's a poesy?

A flower?

157 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:51:38pm

re: #148 Bubblehead II

Beer run. bbiab

158 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:52:14pm

re: #151 MandyManners

You think a bunch of dead men are funny?

Frankly, Mandy, you have said more offensive things than that.

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:52:34pm

re: #156 prairiefire

A flower?

[Link: www.proflowers.com...]

160 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:52:48pm

re: #152 Fozzie Bear

She has my vote.

161 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:52:58pm

re: #153 elbruce

This made me actually laugh. That should be a bumper sticker, right here.

Oh, I see the shithead from HuffPo has arrived. You have some nerve posting bullshit about Charles. Who the fuck do you think you are asshole?

162 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:53:03pm

The will all gather without signs to hear Glenn Beck's "Been to the Mountain Top Speech for White People" speech.

163 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:53:34pm

re: #162 Gus 802

They will all gather without signs to hear Glenn Beck's "Been to the Mountain Top Speech for White People" speech.

They.

164 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:54:24pm

re: #160 Racer X

She has my vote.

We don't really have the luxury of humoring the delusions of AGW deniers, and knee jerk anti-environmental types. But hey, whatever, it's just science!

165 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:54:28pm

re: #158 Fozzie Bear

Frankly, Mandy, you have said more offensive things than that.

Really? Lets see the proof then.

That's a very shitty comment.

166 spikester  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:54:29pm

re: #163 Gus 802

had to ding yo on the typo then had to give it back

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:54:43pm

re: #163 Gus 802

You also said "speech" twice.
/

168 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:54:59pm

re: #166 spikester

had to ding yo on the typo then had to give it back

Heh.

169 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:55:03pm

re: #165 NJDhockeyfan

Really? Lets see the proof then.

That's a very shitty comment.

I would, but they have all been deleted.

170 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:55:04pm

There is no such thing as a perfect politician. I will disagree on some issues, and agree with others. Heck, I even agree with Obama occasionally.

171 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:55:19pm

re: #167 Cannadian Club Akbar

You also said "speech" twice.
/

Yeah. Fuck it. Just got up from a nap.

172 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:55:55pm

re: #170 Racer X

There is no such thing as a perfect politician. I will disagree on some issues, and agree with others. Heck, I even agree with Obama occasionally.

I think we all give props to Obama when he does the right thing.

173 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:56:08pm

Feisty thread for a Saturday afternoon.

174 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:56:32pm

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

I would, but they have all been deleted.

Mandy, have you been a bad girl the last 4 months since this bear became a lizard? What American victims of murder have you been making fun of?

175 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:56:40pm

re: #173 prairiefire

Feisty thread for a Saturday afternoon.

LGF is full of descent.

176 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:56:42pm

re: #173 prairiefire

Feisty thread for a Saturday afternoon.

We've been drinking.
/

177 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:56:52pm

re: #155 spikester

More than you in less than a year

Hell, it took me five and a half years to hit 10,000 comments, and he's past that. He must type a lot faster than I do.

178 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:57:22pm

re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think we all give props to Obama when he does the right thing.

Absolutely! He is the president.

179 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:57:37pm

re: #175 JasonA

LGF is full of descent.

how many times you gonna use that dissent descent joke?? ;)

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:57:40pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

Hell, it took me five and a half years to hit 10,000 comments, and he's past that. He must type a lot faster than I do.

He has no job. Shhh...
//

181 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:58:26pm
182 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:58:27pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

The post at Breitbart's website was written by Gold Star Mom Debbie Lee herself. Does that make her a liar now?

No, it shows extremely poor judgment on her part by associating and writing this for Breitbart, a man who has a track record of being a hyperpartisan hack who wouldn't know journalistic integrity or honesty if it bit him on the ass.

I've read enough shit on DKos to know what I'm talking about. In fact Charles has a load of posts right here at LGF showing the hate right there.

He's also given DKos credit when credit is due, when they're something based on solid, incontrovertible facts...you do realize that DKos diaries, as repulsive as some have been, are like LGF Pages in that they don't necessarily represent the opinions of the management.

183 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:58:44pm

re: #179 cliffster

how many times you gonna use that dissent descent joke?? ;)

You're right. It totally deters from the discourse here.

184 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:58:50pm

re: #137 Aceofwhat?

I'm sorry, Ace, but that's not accurate. You're now engaging in a nuclear power litmus test for 'science', which isn't a very good one. Nuclear power is one arrow in the quiver; it's not the only thing that's going to solve the problem. Furthermore, it's not something that's within the purview of a Governor to really drive forwards.

There are a host of issues with attempting to build nuclear power plants-- the Thorium ones you've talked about definitely seem promising, but building traditional nuclear power plants (though 'traditional' is a bit of a lie, since they're essentially all prototypes) is probably not feasible. No construction of a nuclear power plant has ever come close to being on time or on budget-- only France has gotten anywhere close, with their highly-standardized design.

Have I already recommended this book to you?

Ten Technologies To Fix Energy and Climate

185 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:59:44pm

re: #184 Obdicut

How the hell did an AGW debate break out in this thread?

186 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:00:22pm

re: #143 Racer X

Can you name a policy of hers that you like?

How do you feel about her support of Prop 8?

187 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:00:22pm

re: #164 Fozzie Bear

We don't really have the luxury of humoring the delusions of AGW deniers, and knee jerk anti-environmental types. But hey, whatever, it's just science!

Que? Asking about the economic impacts of a climate change bill is "anti-environmental"? Or is there more to her policy than you posted?

188 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:00:39pm

Oh my goodness... if Beck doesn't allow signs, then what in the world are we going to have to talk about? Let me look at my list. Hmmm... there's this thing about unemployment and the economy... nope... not really important... I'm stumped.

189 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:00:45pm

re: #182 talon_262

No, it shows extremely poor judgment on her part by associating and writing this for Breitbart, a man who has a track record of being a hyperpartisan hack who wouldn't know journalistic integrity or honesty if it bit him on the ass.

He's also given DKos credit when credit is due, when they're something based on solid, incontrovertible facts...you do realize that DKos diaries, as repulsive as some have been, are like LGF Pages in that they don't necessarily represent the opinions of the management.

Charles gets rid of the assholes, anti-Semites, and racists. HuffPo & DKos let them stay. Big difference.

190 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:01:05pm

re: #185 JasonA

How the hell did an AGW debate break out in this thread?

Because somebody implied that a candidate that is "not opposed to nuclear power" is somehow anti-science compared to a flat-out AGW denier.

191 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:01:23pm

re: #185 JasonA

How the hell did an AGW debate break out in this thread?

It's hot outside.

192 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:01:23pm

re: #185 JasonA

How the hell did an AGW debate break out in this thread?

I said that Brown is good on science, which he is. However, since he's only 'not opposed' to nuclear power, and Ace is of the opinion that nuclear power is the magic bullet solution to AGW, he considers him not solid on science.

Brown came up by means of the link to the maybe-maybenot Code Pink fundraiser for him.

193 freetoken  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:01:23pm

re: #185 JasonA

How the hell did an AGW debate break out in this thread?

Yeah, and Ludwig isn't even here...

I think it has something to do with Whitman, who is trying her best to appeal to as many little pockets of the GOP "base" as she can here in California.

194 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:02:11pm

re: #186 Obdicut

I like Meg a lot more than I like Brown. I do not agree with her on every issue.

195 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:02:24pm

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Charles gets rid of the assholes, anti-Semites, and racists. HuffPo & DKos let them stay. Big difference.

Racists and anti-Semites, yes. Assholes have been known to have very long runs here.

196 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:02:50pm

re: #193 freetoken

Yeah, and Ludwig isn't even here...

I think it has something to do with Whitman, who is trying her best to appeal to as many little pockets of the GOP "base" as she can here in California.

That is funny!!

197 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:02:57pm

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, I see the shithead from HuffPo has arrived. You have some nerve posting bullshit about Charles. Who the fuck do you think you are asshole?

Hey elbruce...well, we're waiting!

198 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:03:05pm

re: #194 Racer X

I like Meg a lot more than I like Brown. I do not agree with her on every issue.

I assumed you don't. That's why I asked you to name one policy of hers you do like. You haven't done that yet.

I can assume, then, that you don't like her support for Prop 8?

199 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:03:43pm

re: #187 Aceofwhat?

Que? Asking about the economic impacts of a climate change bill is "anti-environmental"? Or is there more to her policy than you posted?

[Link: www.governing.com...]


Whitman responded, "I do think the scientists say that the earth is getting warmer. Whether it is manmade or not, I don't know. I'm not a scientist."
200 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:03:45pm

re: #198 Obdicut

I assumed you don't. That's why I asked you to name one policy of hers you do like. You haven't done that yet.

I can assume, then, that you don't like her support for Prop 8?

Correct.

201 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:04:27pm

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Charles gets rid of the assholes, anti-Semites, and racists. HuffPo & DKos let them stay. Big difference.

That's because this is Charles' blog. Kos and HuffPo have different community standards. One can get banned from those places, but it takes a lot more work. That's because every Tom, Dick and Harry plays a role in someone getting banned.

202 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:04:32pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

Hell, it took me five and a half years to hit 10,000 comments, and he's past that. He must type a lot faster than I do.

"The older I grow the more I listen to people who don't talk much."

-- Germain G. Glien

203 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:04:47pm

re: #195 wrenchwench

Racists and anti-Semites, yes. Assholes have been known to have very long runs here.

OK, I stand corrected. Some assholes have stayed a while. The others get busted as trolls and deleted after we have our fun grilling them. :)

204 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:05:05pm

re: #200 Racer X

Correct.

Now, can you name a policy or position of hers that you do like?

205 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:06:04pm

re: #184 Obdicut

I'm sorry, Ace, but that's not accurate. You're now engaging in a nuclear power litmus test for 'science', which isn't a very good one. Nuclear power is one arrow in the quiver; it's not the only thing that's going to solve the problem. Furthermore, it's not something that's within the purview of a Governor to really drive forwards.

Have I already recommended this book to you?

Ten Technologies To Fix Energy and Climate

Woah, hang on a second. It's within the purview of a governor to push for wind or solar energy but not for nuclear energy? I need help with that one.

and no, i haven't seen that link yet. i'll click and preview while you respond, because either dude has an energy plan that includes nuclear power or dude doesn't.

ps - sure, we may need to make a little progress with a next-generation reactor design before we can just pop them out like mobile homes...but silly me, i thought that "investing in clean tech" was part of the stump speech? how is investing in awesome, safer nuke designs not "investing in clean tech"?

unproven wind tech = cool, whereas proven but unwieldy nuclear tech = uncool? help me out here. even LVQ and i agree fully on this point...

206 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:06:45pm

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Charles gets rid of the assholes, anti-Semites, and racists. HuffPo & DKos let them stay. Big difference.

Not to make excuses for HuffPoo and DKos, but they also don't have Charles' kickass toolkit to keep the creeps away.

207 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:07:36pm

re: #201 JasonA

That's because this is Charles' blog. Kos and HuffPo have different community standards. One can get banned from those places, but it takes a lot more work. That's because every Tom, Dick and Harry plays a role in someone getting banned.

Charles keeps his blog cleaned up all by himself. Those others have many more than one person there to clean up the nasty shit. Why can't they do it? Maybe it's because they don't care.

208 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:08:02pm

re: #206 talon_262

Not to make excuses for HuffPoo and DKos, but they also don't have Charles' kickass toolkit to keep the creeps away.

And, they have waaay more readers. LGF is kept small, on purpose. It's not possible to police comments as well on DKos and HuffPo.

209 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:08:07pm

re: #192 Obdicut

I said that Brown is good on science, which he is. However, since he's only 'not opposed' to nuclear power, and Ace is of the opinion that nuclear power is the magic bullet solution to AGW, he considers him not solid on science.

Brown came up by means of the link to the maybe-maybenot Code Pink fundraiser for him.

nuclear power is the short-term magic bullet to emissions-free electricity. period. fin. das ist alles. thank you and goodnight.

try the lamb...and tip your webhost/

210 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:08:12pm

re: #206 talon_262

Not to make excuses for HuffPoo and DKos, but they also don't have Charles' kickass toolkit to keep the creeps away.

I've visited a couple other bogs and I can say they suck ass compared to this place.

211 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:08:27pm

re: #207 NJDhockeyfan

Charles keeps his blog cleaned up all by himself. Those others have many more than one person there to clean up the nasty shit. Why can't they do it? Maybe it's because they don't care.

Because they have thousands of times more commenters, for starters.

212 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:08:38pm

re: #199 Fozzie Bear

[Link: www.governing.com...]

ok. thanks. it just wasn't in your original post.

213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:09:12pm

re: #210 Cannadian Club Akbar

bogs=blogs, pimf. Think I just made my own point.:)

214 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:09:39pm

Bogs suck in general. Too much mud.

215 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:09:47pm

re: #208 Fozzie Bear

And, they have waaay more readers. LGF is kept small, on purpose. It's not possible to police comments as well on DKos and HuffPo.

Oh, please...that's a pathetic excuse for a blog to allow racist & anti-Semite posts. If they wanted their blogs to be cleaned up, they would clean them up.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:09:58pm

re: #211 Fozzie Bear

Because they have thousands of times more commenters, for starters.

Because they allow anyone to say anything.

217 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:09pm

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

Woah, hang on a second. It's within the purview of a governor to push for wind or solar energy but not for nuclear energy? I need help with that one.

It'll take a federal-level mandate to get nuclear power going, especially with California's restrictions on public power. Sure, he can do some about lowering cost through lowering regulation, but then you're lowering regulation on nuclear plants, something which a lot of people are understandably leery of.

and no, i haven't seen that link yet. i'll click and preview while you respond, because either dude has an energy plan that includes nuclear power or dude doesn't.

As I said: Litmus test is a bad idea. No, nuclear power is not one of the ten technologies in the book-- and he explains why, in the epilogue. Perhaps you'd like to read that, instead of dismissing people a priori.


ps - sure, we may need to make a little progress with a next-generation reactor design before we can just pop them out like mobile homes...but silly me, i thought that "investing in clean tech" was part of the stump speech? how is investing in awesome, safer nuke designs not "investing in clean tech"?

It is. That's why I said the Thorium reactors are pretty cool. If we standardize that, they would be a great thing to move forwards on.

unproven wind tech = cool, whereas proven but unwieldy nuclear tech = uncool? help me out here. even LVQ and i agree fully on this point...

I would let Ludwig speak for himself. Wind tech is really not unproven, given how much it's already been deployed in Europe. I also haven't mentioned wind once, so I'm not sure why you've suddenly latched onto it. Can you explain?

218 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:15pm

re: #182 talon_262

No, it shows extremely poor judgment on her part by associating and writing this for Breitbart, a man who has a track record of being a hyperpartisan hack who wouldn't know journalistic integrity or honesty if it bit him on the ass.


He's also given DKos credit when credit is due, when they're something based on solid, incontrovertible facts...you do realize that DKos diaries, as repulsive as some have been, are like LGF Pages in that they don't necessarily represent the opinions of the management.

Show me where the raging anti-semite pages are at LGF.

219 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:25pm

re: #214 prairiefire

Bogs suck in general. Too much mud.

Oh, poo.
//

220 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:25pm

Seriously, does anybody really think that LGF's comments would be anything but a cesspool of hate if registration was perpetually open, and the readership was hundreds of times larger?

221 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:35pm

I wonder if Glenn Beck is trying to mitigate this kind of trouble...

I will certainly be toting my camera with me as well as my phone so I can videotape and hopefully post in real time some of the, what I am sure will be, brilliant rhetoric espoused by Duh Furor Mr. Beck and entourage.

I am hoping for some new signs though. The Obama as The Joker signs and the Hitler mustache are so 2009. I am expecting numerous signs with the word Muslim at the very least. I am giddy at the thought of the opportunity to rub elbows with some of our nation's thought leaders. It's too bad their thoughts range from "Damn Mexicans are stealin' my jerb!" to "Libruls want to blow up the Pentagon!".

So who wants to join me for a day of gawking? Better yet, does anyone have any advice as to what I should do while I am there. I am not going to cause trouble. I want to observe the Teabaggers in the wild, much like Jane Goodall did with the chimps. But I do want to maximize my experience.

Update: Not that anyone is still around this discussion anymore, but I deleted some info I shouldn't have published.

Beck is no dummy. (This is from KOS, I don't know if there is a preference on KOS linking. You can find it if you want).

222 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:10:43pm

Jerry Brown's website has a clean energy plan but doesn't mention nuclear power within the plan:
[Link: www.jerrybrown.org...]

223 jamesfirecat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:11:06pm

re: #211 Fozzie Bear

Because they have thousands of times more commenters, for starters.

Also doesn't Huffington post run like a hundred... or at least several dozen threads a day as opposed to the half a dozen here?

224 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:11:21pm

re: #197 NJDhockeyfan

Hey elbruce...well, we're waiting!

How do you know it's from Huffpo?

225 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:11:38pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

Seriously, does anybody really think that LGF's comments would be anything but a cesspool of hate if registration was perpetually open, and the readership was hundreds of times larger?

Please don't give excuses as to how LGF is similar to those others. That's baloney and you know it.

226 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:11:53pm

re: #206 talon_262

Not to make excuses for HuffPoo and DKos, but they also don't have Charles' kickass toolkit to keep the creeps away.

All it takes is a DELETE button.

227 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:11:57pm

re: #223 jamesfirecat

Also doesn't Huffington post run like a hundred... or at least several dozen threads a day as opposed to the half a dozen here?

And we ALWAYS stick to the subject.
//

228 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:12:18pm

re: #223 jamesfirecat

Also doesn't Huffington post run like a hundred... or at least several dozen threads a day as opposed to the half a dozen here?

Yeah, it's kind of loony to try to compare LGF to sites like that. It's like comparing my living room with a small city, and concluding that the people who run the city must be assholes because nobody got mugged ever in my living room.

229 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:12:37pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Oh my goodness... if Beck doesn't allow signs, then what in the world are we going to have to talk about? Let me look at my list. Hmmm... there's this thing about unemployment and the economy... nope... not really important... I'm stumped.

Plenty.

A) August 28th is the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech.

B) That speech was given at the Lincoln Memorial.

C) Glenn Beck has compared himself to Martin Luther King in the past.

D) Glenn Beck is a race baiter.

230 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:12:40pm

re: #209 Aceofwhat?

nuclear power is the short-term magic bullet to emissions-free electricity. period. fin. das ist alles. thank you and goodnight.

try the lamb...and tip your webhost/

Why do you think that you understand the issue well enough to make a proclomation like that? I've been studying this for a long, long, long time, and the huge numbers of factors involved means that I think saying something like that is deeply foolish.

How many nuclear power plants could actually be built per year, given the expertise needed to do so? I don't know the answer to that question. Do you?

231 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:12:51pm

re: #225 NJDhockeyfan

Please don't give excuses as to how LGF is similar to those others. That's baloney and you know it.

Actually, if you read my comment, you would know that I was saying that they aren't comparable.

232 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:13:08pm

re: #208 Fozzie Bear

And, they have waaay more readers. LGF is kept small, on purpose. It's not possible to police comments as well on DKos and HuffPo.

Kept small on purpose. Unless I'm missing something, LGF registration has been OPEN for months, 24 hours a day, and I have never heard of Charles denying a person access just for signing up, except when he notices their IP matches pervious trolls and stalkers.

So, what/who is keeping LGF small.

233 jamesfirecat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:14:09pm

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

Kept small on purpose. Unless I'm missing something, LGF registration has been OPEN for months, 24 hours a day, and I have never heard of Charles denying a person access just for signing up, except when he notices their IP matches pervious trolls and stalkers.

So, what/who is keeping LGF small.

The outflow of "members" by which I mean trolls.

234 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:14:33pm

re: #220 Fozzie Bear

Seriously, does anybody really think that LGF's comments would be anything but a cesspool of hate if registration was perpetually open, and the readership was hundreds of times larger?

Unless I'm missing something, registration has been perpetually open for a long while now.

235 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:14:39pm

re: #207 NJDhockeyfan

Charles keeps his blog cleaned up all by himself. Those others have many more than one person there to clean up the nasty shit. Why can't they do it? Maybe it's because they don't care.

Because they give the readers the power to ban, by downrating a user enough times. They've decided to give the power to the people, so to speak. The downside is that there is a really high bar for that to happen.

Oh, and for every horrible comment you see at Kos there are five or six that you don't see because those have been hidden due to getting enough "downdings," so to speak.

236 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:14:57pm

re: #224 MandyManners

How do you know it's from Huffpo?

I found it's page on HuffPo yesterday.

237 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:15:30pm

re: #233 jamesfirecat

The outflow of "members" by which I mean trolls.

James... read... Fozzie said "if registration was perpetually open" and guess what... it has been for a while now... people leaving is not the point.

238 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:15:35pm

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

Kept small on purpose. Unless I'm missing something, LGF registration has been OPEN for months, 24 hours a day, and I have never heard of Charles denying a person access just for signing up, except when he notices their IP matches pervious trolls and stalkers.

So, what/who is keeping LGF small.

A strict moderation process, a limited scope of subject material, a lack of search engine tie-ins and offsite promotions, a different format, and the fact that every single article is written by one person.

239 freetoken  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:15:45pm

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

So, what/who is keeping LGF small.

Generally the relatively small volume of key posts compared to news sites (HuffPo). If Charles posted hundreds of entries covering every conceivable subject then no doubt there would be many more comments.

As for DKos - I chalk that up to elections and the role DKos played in grassroots Democratic party movements.

240 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:16:45pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Unless I'm missing something, registration has been perpetually open for a long while now.

And unless you missed the second half of the sentence you quoted, LGF's readership remains much, much larger than DKos and HuffPo. That's not a judgement, btw, I prefer it here.

241 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:16:57pm

re: #239 freetoken

Generally the relatively small volume of key posts compared to news sites (HuffPo). If Charles posted hundreds of entries covering every conceivable subject then no doubt there would be many more comments.

As for DKos - I chalk that up to elections and the role DKos played in grassroots Democratic party movements.

But it's not registration, that's my point. Certain comments above are indicating that registration is not open, it is and has been for 24 hours a day for a good while now.

That was my only point.

242 freetoken  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:17:00pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

It should be noted that LGF is very well placed in Google searches. If you put up a Pages entry on a topic, and then go search Google for that topic, you'll likely find your entry on the first page of the Google searches.

243 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:18:38pm

re: #241 Walter L. Newton

I hadn't realized that, as it was mostly closed for months prior to me joining. It took me 6 months of reading to finally stumble upon a day where registration was open.

Regardless, LGF has a much smaller audience. That's the bulk of my point.

244 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:18:49pm

re: #242 freetoken

It should be noted that LGF is very well placed in Google searches. If you put up a Pages entry on a topic, and then go search Google for that topic, you'll likely find your entry on the first page of the Google searches.

I was going to make that point too.

245 freetoken  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:01pm

For example, if you search on "Daghestani", Mandy's page shows up on the first page of Google searches!

246 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:31pm

re: #243 Fozzie Bear

It took me a year to join.

247 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #222 jaunte

Jerry Brown's website has a clean energy plan but doesn't mention nuclear power within the plan:
[Link: www.jerrybrown.org...]

Seismically, Cali is a problematical state for nukes. But it is Killer Bee for solar, wind, and geothermal. If we can get a 4G thorium cycle reactor going, nukes would very suitable in Cali, and everywhere else, for that matter.

And we could build them where we presently site coal and gas-fired power stations. Plenty of cooling water (heat is heat!), transmission infrastructure (power is power!), and a lot less worries about the NIMBY crowd.

248 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #243 Fozzie Bear

I hadn't realized that, as it was mostly closed for months prior to me joining. It took me 6 months of reading to finally stumble upon a day where registration was open.

Regardless, LGF has a much smaller audience. That's the bulk of my point.

Ok... I still love you.

249 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:39pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

A strict moderation process, a limited scope of subject material, a lack of search engine tie-ins and offsite promotions, a different format, and the fact that every single article is written by one person.


That's the significant one, I think. A lot of people don't go online to be moderate.

250 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:19:46pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Now, can you name a policy or position of hers that you do like?

Sure.

I agree with most of her stance on immigration.

251 mich-again  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:20:06pm

Good luck with the no signs rule. There will be lots of people showing up with signs, hello, its a rally. These people are typically very proud of their signs and they aren't going to just toss them in the garbage can. Clusterbleep alarm.

252 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:21:10pm

I want to go with a sign that says "down with signs!" on it.

253 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:21:11pm

re: #247 austin_blue

Seismically, Cali is a problematical state for nukes. But it is Killer Bee for solar, wind, and geothermal. If we can get a 4G thorium cycle reactor going, nukes would very suitable in Cali, and everywhere else, for that matter.

And we could build them where we presently site coal and gas-fired power stations. Plenty of cooling water (heat is heat!), transmission infrastructure (power is power!), and a lot less worries about the NIMBY crowd.

Even IRAN is ahead of us on putting new nuclear reactors online. It's a shame we can't get in step with the rest of the world. France has just upped their nuclear power production.

254 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:21:34pm

re: #251 mich-again

Disagree. Usually people are very respectful of their host.

255 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:21:45pm

re: #230 Obdicut

Why do you think that you understand the issue well enough to make a proclomation like that? I've been studying this for a long, long, long time, and the huge numbers of factors involved means that I think saying something like that is deeply foolish.

How many nuclear power plants could actually be built per year, given the expertise needed to do so? I don't know the answer to that question. Do you?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

257 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:23:26pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

I found it's page on HuffPo yesterday.

Between looking at that and visiting Code Pink, I'm crawling with idiocy and moonbattery.

258 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:23:43pm

re: #256 CuriousLurker

June 17, 2010
Huffington Post Buys Adaptive Semantics To Keep Up With 100,000 Comments A Day

That would keep SFZ busy!!

259 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:23:45pm

re: #250 Racer X

Sure.

I agree with most of her stance on immigration.

Woo-hoo-- most of it! Wow, no wonder you're voting for her.

I assume you're not hot on the fact that she's an AGW-denier?

Or that she's claimed no law enforcement person would ever support marijuana legalization, even though there are hundreds who do?

Any of her other positions you actually like?

260 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:23:50pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

Even IRAN is ahead of us on putting new nuclear reactors online. It's a shame we can't get in step with the rest of the world. France has just upped their nuclear power production.

Yeah, now is a really good time to push research ahead on that front, as there are a few promising new technologies that we could develop for big gains in efficiency and safety. Other forms of energy are comparatively expensive atm, especially if you factor in all the externalities.

However, I still think pushing in all directions at once is the best approach. Solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, tidal, hydro, etc. Renewables can work with smart grids and a diverse portfolio of sources.

261 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:23:56pm

re: #217 Obdicut

Wind tech is really not unproven, given how much it's already been deployed in Europe. I also haven't mentioned wind once, so I'm not sure why you've suddenly latched onto it. Can you explain?

We're talking about Brown's energy policies...right? He mentions wind power a lot. It didn't seem like a reach to use wind as an alternative example, since Brown would like to invest a lot of money in it.

262 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:25:06pm

re: #245 freetoken

For example, if you search on "Daghestani", Mandy's page shows up on the first page of Google searches!

Awesome.

263 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:25:10pm

re: #256 CuriousLurker

June 17, 2010
Huffington Post Buys Adaptive Semantics To Keep Up With 100,000 Comments A Day

That, right there is exactly my point. There is NO FUCKING WAY Charles could ever moderate that, or even 10 clones of Charles, for that matter. It would be a nightmare.

264 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:25:56pm

re: #245 freetoken

For example, if you search on "Daghestani", Mandy's page shows up on the first page of Google searches!

What about "dead jihadis"?

265 abolitionist  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:25:57pm

re: #253 Walter L. Newton

Even IRAN is ahead of us on putting new nuclear reactors online. It's a shame we can't get in step with the rest of the world. France has just upped their nuclear power production.

Today, Iran begins fueling first nuclear reactor

266 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:03pm

re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar

That would keep SFZ busy!!

Heh, yeah, I just grabbed my calculator—that's an average of close to 70 comments per minute. Yikes!

267 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:07pm

re: #255 Aceofwhat?

I agree that if we could wave a magic wand and have it happen, it'd be great.

Do you actually know how many nuclear power plants could be simultaneously built?

Do you notice that Ludwig, in that post, says that this needs to be a push at the national level, meaning using it as a litmus test for governors is kind of foolish?

Did you skip over this bit?


In addition, solar, wind and battery technologies need to be deployed.
268 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:23pm

re: #246 Cannadian Club Akbar

It took me a year to join.

It took me 25 years to join. Well worth the wait.

269 kellygrrrl  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:23pm

o/t
*Breaking CA News*

eMeg Whitman confirms she will defend Prop h8 in court!!! the entire CA Gov race will now revolve around gay marriage ... which is the last thing any of us should even be thinking about with the economic mess we are in here.

oye!

[Link: blogs.sacbee.com...]

270 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:33pm

re: #235 JasonA

Because they give the readers the power to ban, by downrating a user enough times. They've decided to give the power to the people, so to speak. The downside is that there is a really high bar for that to happen.

Oh, and for every horrible comment you see at Kos there are five or six that you don't see because those have been hidden due to getting enough "downdings," so to speak.


Their nasty comments are that much higher? Wow, that's worse than I thought. What a disgusting foul nasty blog.

271 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:26:48pm

re: #261 Aceofwhat?

We're talking about Brown's energy policies...right? He mentions wind power a lot. It didn't seem like a reach to use wind as an alternative example, since Brown would like to invest a lot of money in it.

And you just quoted Ludwig to support yourself, and in that post, Ludwig says we need to deploy wind tech, as well as nuclear. Which is my position as well.

So what's your beef with wind?

272 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:27:02pm

re: #259 Obdicut

Woo-hoo-- most of it! Wow, no wonder you're voting for her.

I assume you're not hot on the fact that she's an AGW-denier?

Or that she's claimed no law enforcement person would ever support marijuana legalization, even though there are hundreds who do?

Any of her other positions you actually like?

If I refused to vote for every candidate with whom I don't agree 100 per cent, I'd never go to the polls.

273 Gus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:27:03pm

re: #269 kellygrrrl

o/t
*Breaking CA News*

eMeg Whitman confirms she will defend Prop h8 in court!!! the entire CA Gov race will now revolve around gay marriage ... which is the last thing any of us should even be thinking about with the economic mess we are in here.

oye!

[Link: blogs.sacbee.com...]

Meg Whitman: bigot.

274 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:27:03pm

re: #267 Obdicut

Yep. You can't simultaneously build 10 plants in the US, as there is a limited pool of people skilled enough to do it right.

275 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:27:12pm

re: #252 Fozzie Bear

I want to go with a sign that says "down with signs!" on it.

How about this one..

Image: 6110.jpg

276 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:27:39pm

re: #259 Obdicut

Woo-hoo-- most of it! Wow, no wonder you're voting for her.

I assume you're not hot on the fact that she's an AGW-denier?

Or that she's claimed no law enforcement person would ever support marijuana legalization, even though there are hundreds who do?

Any of her other positions you actually like?

Yes.

277 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:28:01pm

Beck's goofy, but it doesn't take a lexicologist to realize that he probably meant to say ' detract from ' and not ' deter '. People do misspeak from time to time... even presidents.
And this morning on the news, I watched the busting of a democratic campaign worker carrying a racist-slogan sign while attending a rally for the republican and pretending to support him. I wouldn't want signs, either.
Really sad.

278 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:28:13pm

re: #272 MandyManners

If I refused to vote for every candidate with whom I don't agree 100 per cent, I'd never go to the polls.

What relevance does that have to what I'm saying, Mandy?

I've asked for any policy he agrees with Whitman on. So far, he's provided one that he partially agrees with her on.

279 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:28:19pm

re: #10 JasonA


"How to Serve Wingnuts"

It's a pop-up book!


No, it's a cook book.

280 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:29:10pm

re: #277 tradewind

lol

THE RACISTS ARE DEM PLANTS!!!

281 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:29:13pm

re: #260 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, now is a really good time to push research ahead on that front, as there are a few promising new technologies that we could develop for big gains in efficiency and safety. Other forms of energy are comparatively expensive atm, especially if you factor in all the externalities.

However, I still think pushing in all directions at once is the best approach. Solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, tidal, hydro, etc. Renewables can work with smart grids and a diverse portfolio of sources.

You're basically right about the renewables. I know enough about the general technologies (I worked at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for almost 15 years) to know most of it is not plug and play ready or affordable just yet, but, if we were to spend the kind of time, effort and money that we spent on getting to the moon, getting to Iraq or financing Obama's vacations, it wouldn't take many years to build this out into a workable infrastructure.

We're close, if we could just get everyone on board, we could push this energy thing over the top. But we are not ready quite yet.

282 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:29:48pm

re: #276 Racer X

Yes.

How cute of you to just reply 'yes'! Why, that's adorable.

If you're uninterested in providing any reason to vote for her, that's fine, man. But remember you're voting for someone who's supporting Prop Eight and who's denying AGW. Those are not trivial issues.

283 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:30:33pm

re: #269 kellygrrrl

o/t
*Breaking CA News*

eMeg Whitman confirms she will defend Prop h8 in court!!! the entire CA Gov race will now revolve around gay marriage ... which is the last thing any of us should even be thinking about with the economic mess we are in here.

oye!

[Link: blogs.sacbee.com...]

What economic mess... the stimulus is working... calm down...

284 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:30:50pm

re: #277 tradewind

Beck's goofy, but it doesn't take a lexicologist to realize that he probably meant to say ' detract from ' and not ' deter '. People do misspeak from time to time... even presidents.
And this morning on the news, I watched the busting of a democratic campaign worker carrying a racist-slogan sign while attending a rally for the republican and pretending to support him. I wouldn't want signs, either.
Really sad.

Link?

285 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:31:14pm

re: #279 Wayne A. Schneider


"How to Serve Wingnuts"

It's a pop-up book!

No, it's a cook book.

Great blog site through your link. Welcome to LGF.

286 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:31:17pm

re: #277 tradewind

Beck's goofy, but it doesn't take a lexicologist to realize that he probably meant to say ' detract from ' and not ' deter '. People do misspeak from time to time... even presidents.
And this morning on the news, I watched the busting of a democratic campaign worker carrying a racist-slogan sign while attending a rally for the republican and pretending to support him. I wouldn't want signs, either.
Really sad.

Skip to 0:45. They do it again.

287 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:31:31pm

re: #278 Obdicut

What relevance does that have to what I'm saying, Mandy?

I've asked for any policy he agrees with Whitman on. So far, he's provided one that he partially agrees with her on.

Well, pardon me all to hell for speaking.

288 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:31:41pm

re: #267 Obdicut

I agree that if we could wave a magic wand and have it happen, it'd be great.

Do you actually know how many nuclear power plants could be simultaneously built?

Do you notice that Ludwig, in that post, says that this needs to be a push at the national level, meaning using it as a litmus test for governors is kind of foolish?

Did you skip over this bit?

you skipped the "short term" part in my post, so you need not be so concerned. solar and wind tech seem the most promising in the long term, but it's going to be a while before they can really provide most of our electricity.

it's faster to build a 3g nuke than it is to figure out how to supply the same amount of energy through other tech...

289 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:32:14pm

back in a few min, don't go anywhere LGF;)

290 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:32:14pm

re: #264 MandyManners
I don't know, but I would be that you'd probably have to first claw your way through a mess of sites that also include the term ' glorious heroes ', with an assorted exhortation tossed in.//

291 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:32:16pm

re: #287 MandyManners

Well, pardon me all to hell for speaking.

You don't need to be pardoned, but since I wasn't saying you should be 100% aligned with someone before voting for them, I'm really at a loss as to why you said what you did.

292 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:33:00pm

I didn't grill one of the Porterhouse steaks yesterday so I'm gonna' sear that puppy on both sides then pile on a mess of my red and green bell peppers and steam it all.

Later.

293 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:33:23pm

re: #277 tradewind

Two things:

First, this misuse of English was written, not spoken. If it's in writing, it's not "misspeaking", it's illiteracy.

Second, do you have a link I can look to for some story about this Democratic operative of which you speak? Thank you.

294 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:33:44pm

re: #278 Obdicut

I like the fact that she gets things done. She is a businesswoman. She is a veteran CEO who knows how to motivate people.

What impact did Gov. Schwarzenneger have on Prop 8? Illegal immigration? The environment? Same question for the last 3 governors of CA? Not much impact. They run a business. Let the voters decide on social issues.

Brown seems like a nice guy - after reviewing his record he does not seem as much of a dolt as I thought he was. But I do remember him as mayor of Oakland, and how he failed to deliver on many campaign promises.

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:33:58pm

re: #286 JasonA

They also left a fucking mess.

296 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:34:08pm

re: #281 Walter L. Newton

My thought on the subject are that the ways to get everyone on board are threefold.

1. Internalize the externalities. In other words, tax based on emissions, and total cost of production of the energy source. Oil costs a whole lot more to obtain, refine, and consume than the actual market cost to oil companies and consumers.
2. Reduce and ultimately eliminate subsidies for fossil fuel industries.
3. Spend public funds on research and development.

297 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:34:26pm

re: #288 Aceofwhat?

you skipped the "short term" part in my post, so you need not be so concerned. solar and wind tech seem the most promising in the long term, but it's going to be a while before they can really provide most of our electricity.

it's faster to build a 3g nuke than it is to figure out how to supply the same amount of energy through other tech...

I didn't skip over the 'short-term' in your post, Ace. I'm talking about the short term. Why do you think I skipped over it? Part of the problem with nuclear power plants is the time and resources-- specifically, the human resources-- necessary to build them. As I said, there haven't been any built yet that haven't been over budget and over schedule-- that's why Ludwig included the bit about imprisoning those who cut corners, engage in shoddy workmanship, or have unexpected costs.

Can you not answer the question about how many nuclear power plants we could actually build at once?

298 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #292 MandyManners

I didn't grill one of the Porterhouse steaks yesterday so I'm gonna' sear that puppy on both sides then pile on a mess of my red and green bell peppers and steam it all.

Later.

Yum! I'll eat dead animals anytime.

299 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:34:32pm

re: #285 prairiefire

Thank you. I write liberal political song parodies because, well, somebody has to, dammit!

300 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:36:01pm

re: #288 Aceofwhat?

you skipped the "short term" part in my post, so you need not be so concerned. solar and wind tech seem the most promising in the long term, but it's going to be a while before they can really provide most of our electricity.

it's faster to build a 3g nuke than it is to figure out how to supply the same amount of energy through other tech...

It's faster to build one, but slower to build two, and slower still to build three. There is a fundamental limit to how fast the technology can be deployed, due to a limited pool of people who know how to do it properly.

Even in the short term, nuclear can't even close to cut it alone.

301 mich-again  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:37:54pm

re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar

Disagree. Usually people are very respectful of their host.

And if the hosts can manage to keep the signs away, there will still be lots of people wearing t-shirts that have the same kooky messages.

302 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:38:26pm

re: #301 mich-again

And if the hosts can manage to keep the signs away, there will still be lots of people wearing t-shirts that have the same kooky messages.

Agreed.

303 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:38:26pm

re: #301 mich-again

And if the hosts can manage to keep the signs away, there will still be lots of people wearing t-shirts that have the same kooky messages.

That's why I propose that Beck only allow naked attendees.

304 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:38:41pm

re: #294 Racer X

I like the fact that she gets things done. She is a businesswoman. She is a veteran CEO who knows how to motivate people.

Ah. So no actual policies or positions, then.


What impact did Gov. Schwarzenneger have on Prop 8?

A huge one, at the moment, since he's declined to fight the court's ruling. That means that the third parties involved have to prove their standing.

The environment? Same question for the last 3 governors of CA?

Again, huge. The deregulation of the energy market and the various barriers to public power in California have all been heavily influenced by and dealt with in the governor's office. Do you remember that Enron thing?


Not much impact. They run a business. Let the voters decide on social issues.

Well: A) You're wrong, as above.
B) The enviroment is not a 'social issue'
C) Letting voters decide on 'social issues' brought us prop 8, which is a long, stupid, expensive court case wasting millions of dollars, achieving zero benefit. Why do you like it?


Brown seems like a nice guy - after reviewing his record he does not seem as much of a dolt as I thought he was. But I do remember him as mayor of Oakland, and how he failed to deliver on many campaign promises.

You know, he's done a little since then.

305 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:38:41pm

re: #280 Fozzie Bear
They nailed this one, anyway. Nerdy little guy who writes anti-republican screeds, filmed at a rally for the r candidate with a nasty sign. Later found marching at a democratic rally for the opponent, handing out literature. Wish I could remember which race ( as in contest) it was.
It's dirty pool. I guess the only solution is mandatory ID papers for all weirdos and outrageously biased sign-carriers .//
(Of course, they would only be checked if there was a reasonable suspicion of shenanigans )...
:)

306 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:39:43pm

re: #305 tradewind

Yeah, he should make them sign loyalty oaths like Bush did. /

307 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:39:47pm

re: #299 Wayne A. Schneider

That reminds me of "The Capital Steps." They have been around for 25 years now.[Link: www.capsteps.com...]

308 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:40:08pm

re: #305 tradewind

So what station was this on?

309 jamesfirecat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:40:45pm

re: #303 Fozzie Bear

That's why I propose that Beck only allow naked attendees.

What if they've got political message tattooed on their chest?

310 Winny Spencer  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:40:50pm

re: #305 tradewind

It was at a Rand Paul-rally.

311 mich-again  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:40:54pm

re: #296 Fozzie Bear

1. Internalize the externalities. In other words, tax based on emissions, and total cost of production of the energy source. Oil costs a whole lot more to obtain, refine, and consume than the actual market cost to oil companies and consumers.

I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to understand what you are saying there. Oil costs more than people pay for it?

312 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:41:41pm

re: #309 jamesfirecat

What if they've got political message tattooed on their chest?

Then I suppose they earned it. If you are willing to get a political message etched permanently into your flesh, that's dedication.

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:42:13pm

re: #308 Obdicut

So what station was this on?

I did find this. Not the same story.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

314 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:42:29pm

re: #311 mich-again

I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to understand what you are saying there. Oil costs more than people pay for it?

Yeah that's the gist of it.

315 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:42:47pm

re: #303 Fozzie Bear

That's why I propose that Beck only allow naked attendees.

The Breasts Not Bombs babes!

316 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:43:24pm

re: #315 NJDhockeyfan

The Breasts Not Bombs babes!

MY EYES!!!

317 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:43:26pm

re: #296 Fozzie Bear

My thought on the subject are that the ways to get everyone on board are threefold.

1. Internalize the externalities. In other words, tax based on emissions, and total cost of production of the energy source. Oil costs a whole lot more to obtain, refine, and consume than the actual market cost to oil companies and consumers.
2. Reduce and ultimately eliminate subsidies for fossil fuel industries.
3. Spend public funds on research and development.

Ok... I'm not smart enough on the science, engineering or economic aspects of your first two points to agree or disagree or to even discuss it, but I can address your third point.

Those public funds HAVE to be separated from politics. From this I can speak to first hand. The National Renewable Energy Lab has been a political football for almost 35 years. It is the premier DOE lab doing 24 hour a day research on renewables, yet politicians have treated it like it's some sort of bone to throw around Congress, you give us this, we give you that, back and forth, even budget year, and what do the administrators at the lab spend most of their time doing?

They spend almost half the year tweaking their budgets, budget requests, budget this, budget that, checking the political temperature week to week, and then they sit back, watch the politicians play dodge ball with them, and when it's all over, the lab has less than a half of year to spend the money before the whole process starts again.

The Bush administration cut our budget for 2004-5, that's how, as a contractor to the DOE, I got canned, and then, a few years later, when it was expedient to give the lab MORE money, they hire on new people... it becomes a revolving door... I saw this happen numerous times in the 15 years I was there... that's how I got my job... right after full time employees were canned and then they turned right around and hired contractors.

Take the politics out of renewable energy research. It's a national survival issue, a security issue, not a fiscal treat to dangle in front of greedy politicians.

318 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:43:48pm

re: #315 NJDhockeyfan

The Breasts Not Bombs babes!

Imagine if the crowd got agitated and all fired up. Thousands of naked old people just has to be worth it for the lulz.

319 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:43:55pm

re: #270 NJDhockeyfan

Their nasty comments are that much higher? Wow, that's worse than I thought. What a disgusting foul nasty blog.

lol Kos haterade continues

Someone flip this guy to side 2, he's skipping

320 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:44:07pm

re: #106 JasonA

Not necessarily. I might not like some of the things they say, though.

That's a new one.

But you see Jason, blackfive is a "military blog", so they a special military pass. They can say pretty much anything in the blog posts, never mind the comments. Here's one, by the way:

[Link: www.blackfive.net...]
All things considered, would you do it again if you were President Bush in January 2003?

A commenter from blackfive responded:

I would because I think anytime you are killing prophet monkeys you are making the world a better place. I know that sounds cartoonishly simple but I sincerely believe it. But just looking at Iraq, and not the larger prophet monkey problem, there is no doubt that Saddam desired weapons of mass destruction and there is no reason to believe that he would not have pursued them had he remained in power.

This thread had a total of 34 comments, by the way. Much easier to police than HuffPo. Now why would NDJ link to a "disgusting foul" blog that allows blatantly racist comments like this one?

321 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:44:13pm

re: #293 Wayne A. Schneider
Okay. I suppose those printed speech drafts that contain the presidential misstatements count as examples of illiteracy./ Whatev. This example just doesn't seem to rise to the level of ' Get thee to an ESL class'.
No, don't remember the candidates, I'm looking now. Saw it on a news broadcast at 5:30 this morning, I'm sure it will resurface. To his credit, the guy finally admitted it, after two or three stammering denials.

322 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:45:08pm

re: #317 Walter L. Newton

I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly that's alot easier said than done.

323 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:45:22pm

re: #316 Cannadian Club Akbar

MY EYES!!!

That was a Zombie classic. Those pictures I saw may be the reason for my brain issue last month.

324 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:46:38pm

re: #322 Fozzie Bear

I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly that's alot easier said than done.

No kidding.

325 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:46:42pm

re: #308 Obdicut
I was flicking back and forth between Fox and MSNBC.
Not that it matters. The footage was news feed, not amateur Breitbart video.//

326 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:48:21pm

Whoa! Check out the Rogues Gallery at this site!

[Link: gordspoetryfactory.blogspot.com...]

There's Pammy, little Robby Spencer, Andy Bostom, Nicky Griffin, and Geerty Wilders!

What a fun collection of nutcases!

327 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:48:34pm

re: #320 Nimed
You really wouldn't want some of the raunchier comments about say, Sarah Palin ...that have been made here held up as an example of ' a typical comment on LGF '.

328 Winny Spencer  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:48:41pm

re: #325 tradewind

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

329 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:50:18pm

re: #304 Obdicut

Agree with you on some of that. The big thing for me is CA is bleeding like a stuck pig. The financial situation is horrible. The state legislature cannot make a decision while we bleed red ink. It get worse by almost 50 million a day. We need a business person to right the ship. Jerry Brown may work out just fine, but I do not see it happening.

330 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:50:19pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Show me where the raging anti-semite pages are at LGF.

Sorry for the delayed response...I'm at work and have been busy.

We don't see the same vile crap that's on some DKos diaries here at LGF because the LGF community is small enough for Charles and the Monitor Lizards to police (and for the rest of us to self-police), a feat that's nigh impossible on large sites such as DKos and HuffPoo.

Does Markos agree with some of what's in those DKos diaries? Probably
Does he agree with all of them? I seriously doubt it.
I'd say that Charles is in a similar position in respect to LGF Pages (or even comments), only LGF keeps it civil and sane, on the whole.

331 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:50:39pm

re: #320 Nimed

But you see Jason, blackfive is a "military blog", so they a special military pass. They can say pretty much anything in the blog posts, never mind the comments. Here's one, by the way:

[Link: www.blackfive.net...]
All things considered, would you do it again if you were President Bush in January 2003?

A commenter from blackfive responded:

This thread had a total of 34 comments, by the way. Much easier to police than HuffPo. Now why would NDJ link to a "disgusting foul" blog that allows blatantly racist comments like this one?

That's it...one bad comment? That is a disgusting comment but please...DKos & HuffPo have been posting anti-Semite & racist shit for years and are getting a pass from a few people here.

332 calochortus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:50:59pm

re: #269 kellygrrrl

I heard that on the news last night. I'm not thrilled with either candidate and was seriously considering not voting for either one, but I think Whitman has finally convinced me to vote for Brown.

333 Racer X  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:51:22pm

bbl

334 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:51:47pm

re: #327 tradewind

You really wouldn't want some of the raunchier comments about say, Sarah Palin ...that have been made here held up as an example of ' a typical comment on LGF '.

Or the comments of her kids.

/I'll shut up now.

335 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #319 WindUpBird

lol Kos haterade continues

Someone flip this guy to side 2, he's skipping

If you want to sound really old school, make it, "Someone put a nickel on the tone arm, he's skipping".

336 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:53:38pm

BBL...gonna mow grass before it rains.

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:53:47pm

re: #335 wrenchwench

If you want to sound really old school, make it, "Someone put a nickel on the tone arm, he's skipping".

My gosh, I remember doing that.

338 calochortus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:54:25pm

re: #329 Racer X

Agree with you on some of that. The big thing for me is CA is bleeding like a stuck pig. The financial situation is horrible. The state legislature cannot make a decision while we bleed red ink. It get worse by almost 50 million a day. We need a business person to right the ship. Jerry Brown may work out just fine, but I do not see it happening.

I think the legislative gridlock is far beyond any governor's ability to deal with. The trouble with business people in the executive seat is that in business they usually have far greater power in the actual running of the company than a governor does running a state.
Several months ago I heard Whitman saying something about letting the legislature know what she would and wouldn't put up with. I'm sure that will get her off on the right foot with the legislature.

339 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:54:59pm

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

My gosh, I remember doing that.

I need to go check the date on my nickel... I remember when I put it there... it may be collectible by now...

340 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:55:22pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

That's it...one bad comment? That is a disgusting comment but please...DKos & HuffPo have been posting anti-Semite & racist shit for years and are getting a pass from a few people here.

This is from the personal site of Blackfive's own Uncle Jimbo, who seems like a regular poster over there. He's bemoaning the fact that he can't use the N-word. He has four posts on Blackfive's front page. Go on. Defend it.

341 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:55:26pm

re: #328 Winny Spencer
I must have really been sleepy... I didn't remember hearing Dnar Laup 's name.
Glad I don't have to vote in that one.
Just remember, KY, Mitch tried to stop it.//

342 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:55:28pm

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

My gosh, I remember doing that.

Did you use chewing gum to keep it on there?

spotted another old one

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:55:49pm

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

I need to go check the date on my nickel... I remember when I put it there... it may be collectible by now...

You had nickles as a teenager?

344 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:55:57pm

re: #329 Racer X

Agree with you on some of that. The big thing for me is CA is bleeding like a stuck pig. The financial situation is horrible. The state legislature cannot make a decision while we bleed red ink. It get worse by almost 50 million a day. We need a business person to right the ship. Jerry Brown may work out just fine, but I do not see it happening.

What is she going to do to right the ship? THe economic troubles have to do with the way that the legislature and proposition system is set up, the super-majorities required for budgets, the propositions stripping away tax power. What is she supposed to do about that?

Tell me what she'll actually do to 'right the ship'. A policy or a position she'll take that will do so.

While you're at it, explain how being a CEO of a for-profit business maps to being a governor.

345 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:56:06pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

That's it...one bad comment? That is a disgusting comment but please...DKos & HuffPo have been posting anti-Semite & racist shit for years and are getting a pass from a few people here.

Some of the comments posted here appall me. You were just saying how you take umbrage with things posted here. That doesn't discount the validity of Charles' posts. There are writers at both Huffo and DKos that often say reprehensible shit. there are others that are very good writers. Those sites are composites, meta-sites, if you will. It's just not the same thing.

346 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:56:27pm

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, I see the shithead from HuffPo has arrived. You have some nerve posting bullshit about Charles. Who the fuck do you think you are asshole?

Dude, chill.

.

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Charles gets rid of the assholes, anti-Semites, and racists. HuffPo & DKos let them stay. Big difference.

I refer you to your previous post (quoted above) regarding who's being the "asshole" here... It's a bit self-contradictory to howl profanity and vitriol at somebody just for showing up and then claim that there are zero regular "assholes" at this site. You disprove your own point just by existing.

.

re: #209 Aceofwhat?

nuclear power is the short-term magic bullet to emissions-free electricity. period. fin. das ist alles. thank you and goodnight.

I don't know about "short term" since the costs and time involve in startup is huge for any one plant, much less a bunch of 'em.

I still just don't think there is a magic bullet. We should have a diversified portfolio when it comes to energy - do some of everything - that way we can shift the balance as we go to mitigate unintended consequences for any one form. We'd need a national "backbone" electrical grid, similar in scope to the interstate highway program, so that all the generation sources are interchangeable.

347 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:56:47pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan
LOL, I'm thinking of DU and some of their golden oldies.
Probably prevented some real-life violence at that cesspool, letting them vent.

348 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:57:15pm

re: #346 elbruce

You did post some ridiculous shit and then didn't bother defending it in the least.

Is that going to be a pattern of yours?

349 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:57:42pm

re: #329 Racer X

Agree with you on some of that. The big thing for me is CA is bleeding like a stuck pig. The financial situation is horrible. The state legislature cannot make a decision while we bleed red ink. It get worse by almost 50 million a day. We need a business person to right the ship. Jerry Brown may work out just fine, but I do not see it happening.

There is a reason California is constantly losing money.

350 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:58:25pm

re: #344 Obdicut
CA had better put some business heads in charge if they think they might be needing to pay a bill or two in the next four years.

351 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:58:39pm

re: #297 Obdicut

I didn't skip over the 'short-term' in your post, Ace. I'm talking about the short term. Why do you think I skipped over it? Part of the problem with nuclear power plants is the time and resources-- specifically, the human resources-- necessary to build them. As I said, there haven't been any built yet that haven't been over budget and over schedule-- that's why Ludwig included the bit about imprisoning those who cut corners, engage in shoddy workmanship, or have unexpected costs.

Can you not answer the question about how many nuclear power plants we could actually build at once?

Oh. I thought you skipped over it because its purpose was to demonstrate that there may be other, longer-term solutions that we ought not ignore while we build more nuclear capacity. And you asked why i was ignoring the end part of Ludwig's post.

No, i don't know how many we can build at once. I find it an unnecessary question. Not being able to build all of our desired plants at once is wholly unhelpful to the fact that we ought to start building now, and we also ought to be testing (a) less radioactive and waste-producing sources, like thorium, and (b) next-gen technologies that would allow us to greatly increase the speed with which we can safely deploy highly reliable nuclear power plants.

I've been googling your book link...i'd probably really like it, even if i might quarrel with his assessment of the potential of nuclear reactions in various forms to generate electricity in an emissions-free fashion.

352 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:59:21pm

re: #350 tradewind

Obdi hit it some, but why the hell do people think 'business leaders'='good governers'?

The rules of the game are totally different!

353 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:59:53pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

That's it...one bad comment? That is a disgusting comment but please...DKos & HuffPo have been posting anti-Semite & racist shit for years and are getting a pass from a few people here.

Wow it';s amazing that a post about Glenn Beck seems to always become a referendum about DailyKos!

Just always seems to be the usual gaggle of wingnuts trying to push the blog back five years to when the Daily Kos was EVUL!! and LGF was GEUD!! and critical thinking and discussing actual politics was only for guys who crowed about their military service and agreed on everything

Oh those were the days, too bad they're ALL GONE

354 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:00:12pm

re: #300 Fozzie Bear

It's faster to build one, but slower to build two, and slower still to build three. There is a fundamental limit to how fast the technology can be deployed, due to a limited pool of people who know how to do it properly.

Even in the short term, nuclear can't even close to cut it alone.

I quite agree. That, however, is no excuse for leaving it out of your energy plank, if you're into "clean energy". And Brown's plank couldn't be more silent on the issue. Booo.

355 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:00:42pm

re: #351 Aceofwhat?

No, i don't know how many we can build at once.

Then you can't say it's the magic bullet.

I'm glad you like the book. Take the time to actually read his reasoning on nuclear power; he makes it very clear why he thinks it's not viable right now-- some are the same reasons why Ludwig says that we'd need to imprison those who had 'unexpected costs' when building nuke plants.

356 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:01:28pm

re: #349 Fozzie Bear
I see you made a quick trip by your union hall and picked up the talking point of the day.
You can't raise property taxes on property owners who are upside down and underwater.
Public sector unions' contracts and pensions plus entitlements are the dagger in the heart of CA.

357 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:01:52pm

re: #314 Fozzie Bear

Yeah that's the gist of it.

i don't think that's true, unless you monetize the environmental costs...

358 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:02pm

re: #356 tradewind

LOOK OUT EVERYONE!

EVIL UNION CONSPIRACY!

359 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:10pm

re: #352 windsagio

Obdi hit it some, but why the hell do people think 'business leaders'='good governers'?

The rules of the game are totally different!

no fucking shit

it's like trying to explain to people that being a physiologist doesn't make you a psychologist, but hey, a million people all take Dr. Laura's advice

Also, something tells me business leaders are only experienced when they're Republicans, lol

360 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:12pm

re: #346 elbruce

I believe Charles has some questions for you on this morning's thread. You probably should answer them.

361 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:17pm

re: #352 windsagio

Obdi hit it some, but why the hell do people think 'business leaders'='good governers'?

The rules of the game are totally different!

I've gotta agree with this 100% (damn! agree with you again? what's the world coming to?)

Gov't is completely different than business; Gov't does not (or should not) "earn a profit", while a business must. I does make a difference in leadership.

Can a businessman be a good Governor?
Yes.
Will a businessman always be a better governmental official?
Not by a long shot.

362 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:02:25pm

PS: Is reine here? I have an OT message for her

363 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:01pm

re: #362 windsagio

PS: Is reine here? I have an OT message for her

"Show Users"

364 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:24pm

re: #361 reine.de.tout

oh apparently you are.

If you're still interested my mom is at an art show this week with my brother. I can get you her cel, if youre impatient and want to talk to her :D

365 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #354 Aceofwhat?

I quite agree. That, however, is no excuse for leaving it out of your energy plank, if you're into "clean energy". And Brown's plank couldn't be more silent on the issue. Booo.

That doesn't mean he's not solid on science, Ace. That means he doesn't favor a particular engineering solution to energy that you do. Deployment of nuclear power is not a scientific issue; it's an engineering, political, and economic one. We know nuclear power plants work; the question is whether we can build them fast enough, safely enough, and in great enough numbers. I think the Thorium plants you've been talking about look very promising-- as does, cautiously, Goodall. But that doesn't mean any candidate who doesn't have "Thorium" tattooed on their balls fails a science litmus test.

366 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:27pm

re: #362 windsagio

PS: Is reine here? I have an OT message for her

Look up.

367 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:31pm

re: #357 Aceofwhat?

i don't think that's true, unless you monetize the environmental costs...

If the argument is that the market can address it, then it has to be brought into the market. If the market cannot address it, then it must be done by fiat, by simply regulating the hell out of it.

I prefer the market way.

368 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:03:47pm

re: #363 Walter L. Newton

doesn't mean they're actually there :p I've been konwn to leave windows open for hours while away ;)

369 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:04:22pm

re: #348 Obdicut

You did post some ridiculous shit and then didn't bother defending it in the least.

Is that going to be a pattern of yours?

Actually, I'd generally prefer to talk about subjects other than myself or the webmaster, if that's OK with you.

370 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:04:28pm

re: #360 NJDhockeyfan

Appeal to authority!

371 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:04:31pm

re: #349 Fozzie Bear

There is a reason California is constantly losing money.

We bring up that prop every day, every day we see the usual wingnut dipshit mindless durr hurr hurr talking points about California's budget

every single
day

blind ideology is a hell of a drug, either that or Grover Norquist has some sort of animal magnetism that I'm not aware of

372 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:04:44pm

re: #355 Obdicut

Then you can't say it's the magic bullet.

I'm glad you like the book. Take the time to actually read his reasoning on nuclear power; he makes it very clear why he thinks it's not viable right now-- some are the same reasons why Ludwig says that we'd need to imprison those who had 'unexpected costs' when building nuke plants.

i say it's the magic bullet because it's the short-term winner.

in the united states, we could generate the most emissions-free electricity by investing 100billion over the next 20 years to build lots of ___.

a. solar power fields
b. wind power fields
c. nuclear power plants

the answer is the 'magic bullet', i.e. what we ought to be focusing the majority of our efforts, words and money on in the short term.

373 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:04:58pm

re: #362 windsagio

PS: Is reine here? I have an OT message for her

Yeah, I'm here (and fer gawd's sake, agreeing with you again, the world has gone crazy).

374 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:06pm

re: #368 windsagio

doesn't mean they're actually there :p I've been konwn to leave windows open for hours while away ;)

This is your brain on hold...

375 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:11pm

re: #369 elbruce

I'm trying to figure you out still, I like that you refuse to be put on the defensive tho ;)

376 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:13pm

re: #360 NJDhockeyfan

I believe Charles has some questions for you on this morning's thread. You probably should answer them.

you scolding people is really funny

377 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:37pm

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

This is your legs on a walk in the nature park!

378 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:53pm

re: #369 elbruce

Actually, I'd generally prefer to talk about subjects other than myself or the webmaster, if that's OK with you.

That's a dodge, dude. You said shit, Charles-- who's blog this is-- asked you questions about it, you've failed to answer. This is a personal website, not a community one, and so ignoring questions from Charles after having made a bunch of what seem to me to be completely false assertions about him is pretty akin to trolling.

379 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:05:56pm

re: #364 windsagio

oh apparently you are.

If you're still interested my mom is at an art show this week with my brother. I can get you her cel, if youre impatient and want to talk to her :D

The number at the website is accurate, correct?
I'm going to call, but it will prolly be closer to the beginning of the month (i.e., payday so I'll have funds).

380 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:06:19pm

re: #375 windsagio

I'm trying to figure you out still, I like that you refuse to be put on the defensive tho ;)

I am going with "smart guy who likes to stir shit up"

There's a fine line to walk if you want to be that guy here, gotta engage people, if you just show up, throw bombs and then leave, nobody will take you seriously

381 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:06:33pm

re: #371 WindUpBird

These are the acolytes Norquist baptized in his bathtub.

382 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:06:39pm

re: #379 reine.de.tout

ok that's her home number and no problem :)

Tryin' to do my part to make a sale :p

/back to our regularly scheduled wrangling!

383 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:06:52pm

re: #372 Aceofwhat?

i say it's the magic bullet because it's the short-term winner.

in the united states, we could generate the most emissions-free electricity by investing 100billion over the next 20 years to build lots of ___.

a. solar power fields
b. wind power fields
c. nuclear power plants

the answer is the 'magic bullet', i.e. what we ought to be focusing the majority of our efforts, words and money on in the short term.


But you don't know if it's possible, Ace. So no, you can't call it the 'magic bullet' unless you mean 'we might need magic to pull it off'.

And again: Not being a firm proponent of nuclear doesn't mean Brown fails a science test. Especially in earthquake-prone California.

384 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:07:10pm

re: #380 WindUpBird

I am going with "smart guy who likes to stir shit up"

There's a fine line to walk if you want to be that guy here, gotta engage people, if you just show up, throw bombs and then leave, nobody will take you seriously

Incoming...

385 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:07:32pm

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

That's it...one bad comment? That is a disgusting comment but please...DKos & HuffPo have been posting anti-Semite & racist shit for years and are getting a pass from a few people here.

I'm glad you asked. One comment, you say?
[Link: www.blackfive.net...]

OOORAH!! SEMPER FI!!! when our kids do a good job takin' out carpet pilots at long range it gives me tingles up my...aaah uuum...well anyway good on ya...the stinkin'muslim winds up in front of the 72 virginians with a confuzzed look on his face and they ask how did you git here?? he says...huh???

And

GRIMMY...so to sum up, a lot of dead stinkin' muslims is good...right???

This is out of a thread of 17 comments. And the comments themselves are taken just from the blog posts on the front page.

386 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:07:33pm

re: #352 windsagio
Obama's chief economic advisor, Christina Romer is high-tailing it back to Berkeley and taking her ' unemployment won't go over 8% ' predictions with her, and she is a prime example of what happens when you put academics instead of business-experienced people in charge.

387 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:07:57pm

re: #380 WindUpBird

Seems be taking things pretty calmly and seriously tho'. To be honest I didn't think someone could take his tack without being screamed off the blog.

388 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:07:58pm

re: #379 reine.de.tout

The number at the website is accurate, correct?
I'm going to call, but it will prolly be closer to the beginning of the month (i.e., payday so I'll have funds).

Now I feel bad... :)

389 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:08:01pm

re: #368 windsagio

doesn't mean they're actually there :p I've been konwn to leave windows open for hours while away ;)

I always do exactly this.
Just to fool folks . . .

390 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:08:15pm

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

Now I feel bad... :)

hehehe.
Don't!

391 calochortus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:08:46pm

I heard an interesting discussion of "how we got here" in CA by the author of a book entitled California Crackup I haven't read it-its on order at my local library, but it goes back to our founding as a state and deals with the causes and complexities of things like Prop. 13.

392 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:09:00pm

re: #382 windsagio

ok that's her home number and no problem :)

Tryin' to do my part to make a sale :p

/back to our regularly scheduled wrangling!

It'll happen.
OK, back to the usual.

393 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:09:03pm

re: #386 tradewind

I know evil ivory tower university pinheads right?

(You might wanna look into the causes of the recession too, there seems to be some confusion)

394 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:09:11pm

re: #391 calochortus

I heard an interesting discussion of "how we got here" in CA by the author of a book entitled California Crackup I haven't read it-its on order at my local library, but it goes back to our founding as a state and deals with the causes and complexities of things like Prop. 13.

It's Bush's fault.

395 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:09:15pm

re: #389 reine.de.tout

I always do exactly this.
Just to fool folks . . .

ninja.de.tout

396 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:09:54pm

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

Now I feel bad... :)

lol don't.

Its my ultimate weapon!

"SHush, I'm trying to help my disabled brother, are you some kind of jerk?!"

na I'd never do that, its kinda evil :P

397 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:10:15pm

re: #358 windsagio
Not so much. More like ' short-sighted killing-goose-laying Golden State eggs' union mindset.
Not just speculation. I got a Teamster's card. (True).
You better watchit.//

398 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:10:17pm

re: #347 tradewind

LOL, I'm thinking of DU and some of their golden oldies.
Probably prevented some real-life violence at that cesspool, letting them vent.

This has to be one of the best from DU. An instant classic 5 years ago.

Can a jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse a steel structure? An experiment.

This beats the Koskid who said he pisses in his friend's sink instead of the toilet to save water.

399 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:11:13pm

re: #397 tradewind

Is it the unions or the academics that ruined everything? Trying to remember.

400 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:11:18pm

re: #329 Racer X

Agree with you on some of that. The big thing for me is CA is bleeding like a stuck pig. The financial situation is horrible. The state legislature cannot make a decision while we bleed red ink. It get worse by almost 50 million a day. We need a business person to right the ship. Jerry Brown may work out just fine, but I do not see it happening.

tax burden is much, much lighter here in Florida...i wonder what you're getting for your money that i'm missing out on;)

401 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:11:26pm

re: #398 NJDhockeyfan

Wait... you guys don't piss in the sink?

402 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:11:54pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Screw saving water, it saves time!

403 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:12:32pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Wait... you guys don't piss in the sink?

Why not just pee outside?

404 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:12:55pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Wait... you guys don't piss in the sink?

I live in the country. I piss outside.

405 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:13:17pm

re: #403 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why not just pee outside?

you kind of need a yard for that really, or a convenient nearby park. Getting caught peeing on the side of the road is embarassin'.

406 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:12pm

re: #405 windsagio

you kind of need a yard for that really, or a convenient nearby park. Getting caught peeing on the side of the road is embarassin'.

I have 5 acres. I'm good.

407 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:23pm

re: #399 windsagio

Is it the unions or the academics that ruined everything? Trying to remember.

Bush.

408 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:24pm

re: #400 Aceofwhat?

Well, we do have a world-class university system that leads the state schools in patents and medical discoveries.

So there's that.

And according to the Tax Foundation website, we have roughly equal tax burdens in California and Florida.

409 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:34pm

re: #401 Fozzie Bear

Wait... you guys don't piss in the sink?

re: #402 windsagio

Screw saving water, it saves time!

It save water and time...the water you use to wash your hands afterwards washes the piss down and it's generally less than a toilet flush. Not that I've done this as a matter of course, you see...

;-P

410 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:45pm

re: #407 Walter L. Newton

Bush.

Oh yeah, that's right!

Dunno why I'd forgotten >>

411 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:48pm

re: #346 elbruce

I still just don't think there is a magic bullet. We should have a diversified portfolio when it comes to energy - do some of everything - that way we can shift the balance as we go to mitigate unintended consequences for any one form. We'd need a national "backbone" electrical grid, similar in scope to the interstate highway program, so that all the generation sources are interchangeable.

Sure, of course we should advance progress on everything, because we need to get better at it. The difference is that we can either spend lots of time and money building actual tech to create lots of electricity in the short term, or spend lots of time and money trying to develop actual tech to create lots of electricity.

Follow? If you're really concerned about AGW, you want this country to start popping out nuclear power plants yesterday.

412 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:14:53pm

re: #407 Walter L. Newton

Bush.

Quoting Revenge of the Nerds is of dubious value.

413 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:15:15pm

re: #378 Obdicut

That's a dodge, dude. You said shit, Charles-- who's blog this is-- asked you questions about it, you've failed to answer. This is a personal website, not a community one, and so ignoring questions from Charles after having made a bunch of what seem to me to be completely false assertions about him is pretty akin to trolling.

Reviewing that thread, I pretty much did stumble clear over the line into trolling last night. Sorry, everybody. I've posted an apology in the appropriate thread and would like to reiterate it here, both to Charles and to the community of regulars.

(I still think Israel is being big meanies, though)

414 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:15:16pm

re: #409 talon_262

... I had a response to that, but I think I'll spare it to you.

hint: "Urine is sterile you know" >>

415 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:15:35pm

I'm just shocked, SHOCKED that NJDhockeyfan would not only frequent a blog that doesn't delete openly bigoted comment, but even approvingly link their blog posts.

After all, he espouses such high standards for the blogs he visits.

416 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:15:49pm

re: #380 WindUpBird
And you know what happens if no one takes you seriously on the internet.
Life's not worth living.
Serially.

417 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:15:56pm

re: #414 windsagio

... I had a response to that, but I think I'll spare it to you.

hint: "Urine is sterile you know" >>

You can drink it.

418 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:16:03pm

re: #409 talon_262

My brother used to keep a gallon jug in his room to go into. We gave it to him because it was better than him peeing out hte window (which ruins the paint)

419 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:16:30pm

re: #405 windsagio

you kind of need a yard for that really, or a convenient nearby park. Getting caught peeing on the side of the road is embarassin'.

I use to know a girl, in her 20's, a folk singer, travels the country doing festivals and the suck, living where she could find a friend and a couch, who would have me stop on a major highway, she would open the passenger side door, squat between the car door and the car and take a piss. I could never get use to that.

It was only 10 years ago.

420 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:17:01pm

re: #418 windsagio

My brother used to keep a gallon jug in his room to go into. We gave it to him because it was better than him peeing out hte window (which ruins the paint)

Really, really TMI.

421 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:17:13pm

re: #412 Obdicut

Quoting Revenge of the Nerds is of dubious value.

? I never saw any of the "nerds" films (there was more than one, I think).

422 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:17:33pm

re: #419 Walter L. Newton

I just open the driver's side window and pee over my shoulder while I drive. It saves time.

423 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:17:34pm

re: #419 Walter L. Newton

I know people that do that >> A car (or truck) doesn't seem to be enough of a vision-block to me.

Luckily its pretty woodsey around here, can always go about 100 feet back into the trees!

424 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:17:50pm

re: #399 windsagio
Don't stress. It's complicated.
Eventually, someone will be in charge who recognizes that like a family, a state can't keep spending more than it takes in. And the 'taking in ' sources are not unlimited.

425 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:05pm

re: #420 reine.de.tout

Really, really TMI.

haha sorry, you get hardened to that kind of thing, and think its just funny.

Normal people are probably less used to it :D

426 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:07pm

re: #383 Obdicut

I'd imagine that California should exploit Solar and Geothermal in the state. I personally prefer the Nuclear Power Plants to be in areas where the natural hazards are weather-related. Hurricane Andrew didn't do a lick of damage to a nuclear power plant in South Florida when it went through 18 years ago.

427 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:18pm

re: #422 Fozzie Bear

I just open the driver's side window and pee over my shoulder while I drive. It saves time.

Har!!

428 HoosierHoops  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:24pm

Good Evening Lizards!
Interesting thread to say the least...

429 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:42pm

re: #422 Fozzie Bear

I just open the driver's side window and pee over my shoulder while I drive. It saves time.

I lay mine out the back window when I drive. It's less messy that way.

430 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:53pm

re: #420 reine.de.tout
Way too much.

431 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:18:58pm

re: #428 HoosierHoops

Good Evening Lizards!
Interesting thread to say the least...

Outdoor urination protocols are important dammit!

432 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:19:15pm

re: #423 windsagio

I know people that do that >> A car (or truck) doesn't seem to be enough of a vision-block to me.

Luckily its pretty woodsey around here, can always go about 100 feet back into the trees!

If you gotta walk a hundred feet back in the woods to take a squirt, you might as well walk to the john ;-P

433 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:19:25pm

OK, BBL really this time.

434 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:19:43pm

re: #422 Fozzie Bear
Don't you wish.//

435 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:19:58pm

re: #432 talon_262

If you gotta walk a hundred feet back in the woods to take a squirt, you might as well walk to the john ;-P

Oh sorry, no. That's when you're out on a run or a walk (Or a cross-state drive).

I'm actually a wimp at home, use the actual toilet.

436 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:02pm

re: #383 Obdicut

But you don't know if it's possible, Ace. So no, you can't call it the 'magic bullet' unless you mean 'we might need magic to pull it off'.

And again: Not being a firm proponent of nuclear doesn't mean Brown fails a science test. Especially in earthquake-prone California.

I know it's possible to build a nuclear power plant, actually. So unless i misunderstand you, i quite disagree on that point.

And again: not making one mention of nuclear power, even in earthquake-prone California, does not make Brown 'really solid on science' as it pertains to energy policy. For God's sake, i'm a 34yo Biology major with an MBA, republican, and i'm excited about LFTR. I'll bet you a hundred dollars that Brown has no clue what Liquid Fueled Thorium Reactors are...

437 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:12pm

re: #422 Fozzie Bear

I just open the driver's side window and pee over my shoulder while I drive. It saves time.

I now have an idea for a catheter that flows into the wiper-fluid basin...

438 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:25pm

ok all this talk has...

you guys will have to excuse me for a moment :p

439 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:32pm

re: #413 elbruce

An apology is great, but I'm going to be dubious of someone who would troll in the first place for a little while. I don't have any respect for trolling.

I'm glad you apologized. And I like Reginald Perrin a lot, so I hope your future comments live up more to his level of discourse.

But you definitely get points for actually admitting error and apologizing.

440 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:54pm

re: #378 Obdicut

That's a dodge, dude. You said shit, Charles-- who's blog this is-- asked you questions about it, you've failed to answer. This is a personal website, not a community one, and so ignoring questions from Charles after having made a bunch of what seem to me to be completely false assertions about him is pretty akin to trolling.

qft

441 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:20:57pm

re: #434 tradewind

Don't you wish.//

It's not the size, its the amazing pressure I can generate. I cut steel beams with my pee streams.

442 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:21:22pm

re: #426 ProLifeLiberal
And Katrina didn't damage the nuclear plants in LA, either.
About the only thing that wasn't damaged in that path.

443 HoosierHoops  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:21:45pm

re: #436 Aceofwhat?

I know it's possible to build a nuclear power plant, actually. So unless i misunderstand you, i quite disagree on that point.

And again: not making one mention of nuclear power, even in earthquake-prone California, does not make Brown 'really solid on science' as it pertains to energy policy. For God's sake, i'm a 34yo Biology major with an MBA, republican, and i'm excited about LFTR. I'll bet you a hundred dollars that Brown has no clue what Liquid Fueled Thorium Reactors are...

Everybody will be talking about them when gas is 10 dollars a gallon

444 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:23:05pm

re: #425 windsagio

haha sorry, you get hardened to that kind of thing, and think its just funny.

Normal people are probably less used to it :D

Actually - on trips, it's what my mom used to do for the 3 brothers.
Me - I just had to suffer.

445 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:23:23pm

re: #442 tradewind

I heard about that too. I figured Andrew would be about as impressive example wise. Different regions require different magic bullets.

446 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:23:56pm

re: #443 HoosierHoops

Everybody will be talking about them when gas is 10 dollars a gallon

It will be within a few years. There needs to be heavy investment before that happens, not after.

447 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:24:03pm

re: #442 tradewind

And Katrina didn't damage the nuclear plants in LA, either.
About the only thing that wasn't damaged in that path.

Such plants are very heavily over built, which gives them survivability.

448 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:24:28pm

re: #437 JasonA

I now have an idea for a catheter that flows into the wiper-fluid basin...

Ewww...just imagine after that sits for a while in the washer tank and you hit the washer button...

449 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:25:17pm

re: #446 Fozzie Bear

It will be within a few years. There needs to be heavy investment before that happens, not after.

Something like $10 gas is needed to produce the crisis that will allow the NIMBY protests to be pushed aside.

450 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:25:29pm

re: #439 Obdicut

An apology is great, but I'm going to be dubious of someone who would troll in the first place for a little while. I don't have any respect for trolling.

I'm glad you apologized. And I like Reginald Perrin a lot, so I hope your future comments live up more to his level of discourse.

But you definitely get points for actually admitting error and apologizing.

Reginald said he'd be straight up, even if not to someone's particular taste politics-wise.

But disparaging comments about Charles are pretty much frowned on. We appreciate the forum, the monitoring, the sanity, etc. Just a friendly word of warning . . .

451 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:25:30pm

re: #444 reine.de.tout

Actually - on trips, it's what my mom used to do for the 3 brothers.
Me - I just had to suffer.

That sucks, reine. Fortunately, there's no reason for women to suffer anymore! :D

[Link: www.google.com...]

452 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:25:42pm

re: #448 talon_262

Ewww...just imagine after that sits for a while in the washer tank and you hit the washer button...


Show me where I said it was a good idea.

453 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:05pm

re: #408 Obdicut

Well, we do have a world-class university system that leads the state schools in patents and medical discoveries.

So there's that.

And according to the Tax Foundation website, we have roughly equal tax burdens in California and Florida.

errr...no. it shows that Florida has the 44th-47th worst burden in the last decade, while Cali has the 2nd - 9th worst (depending on the year).

It's not even close. I pay no state income tax.

I'll grant you the universities. Seems expensive, though.

454 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:06pm

re: #447 Dark_Falcon

A very good thing, considering what happened when a certain Soviet power plant malfunctioned without the various redundancies we have on ours.

455 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:07pm

re: #436 Aceofwhat?

I know it's possible to build a nuclear power plant, actually. So unless i misunderstand you, i quite disagree on that point.

You do misundersatnd me, and I don't get why, since I've been very clear on this: How many nuclear power plants can we build, per year? That is the question I've asked, which you are unable to answer, and without the answer to which, you cannot say nuclear is a magic bullet.

I'm not sure why you don't get that's what I'm saying, since I've said it over and over, and been very clear about it.

And again: not making one mention of nuclear power, even in earthquake-prone California, does not make Brown 'really solid on science' as it pertains to energy policy.

No, but his being very solid on science in general really does make him very solid on science in general. Thorium isn't proven out yet-- it's immature. I have a lot of hope for it-- it seems great. But a lack of knowledge of one particular aspect of a solution to energy policy doesn't make someone weak on science, or not solid on science. In your opinion it does, but in my opinion your opinion is not as informed as it should be.

I know you really want there to be a magic bullet for AGW; I caution you that precisely because you are a positive, optimistic person who wants there to be a solution, that you may be only seeing the solution, and not also the problems.

In California, with the current budget problems, the governor is not going to be able to do a hell of a lot to push forwards nuclear energy. Not opposing it is actually a big deal, given how many of the barriers in the way of a nuclear plant are actually lawsuits from the state government.

456 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:14pm

re: #447 Dark_Falcon

Such plants are very heavily over built, which gives them survivability.

They have to be to survive heavy weather, airplane impacts, etc. Unfortunately overbuilding doesn't help as much for preventing seismic damage, which is why CA isn't the best place for one.

457 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:27pm

Ok. I need to go to the store and find something that used to have parents for my dinner. BBL.

458 Fozzie Bear  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:41pm

re: #449 Dark_Falcon

Something like $10 gas is needed to produce the crisis that will allow the NIMBY protests to be pushed aside.

And that requires taxes.

459 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:26:53pm

re: #451 Nimed

That sucks, reine. Fortunately, there's no reason for women to suffer anymore! :D

[Link: www.google.com...]

LOL.
I've seen those. Seriously, a great invention.

460 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:27:17pm

Regarding HuffPo, I find it's only good for drive-by commenting at most. Most threads require moderator pre-approval before they display, and the comments are multi-page, so by the time your comment shows up (you have to check back later) it's already buried on some unknown page. Conversation usually isn't possible.

And for some reason, I just don't like Kos' format for comments. I can't point a finger at any particular thing, it just seems that every post rapidly gets buried in thousands of threaded conversations going in different directions.

re: #411 Aceofwhat?

If you're really concerned about AGW, you want this country to start popping out nuclear power plants yesterday.

I do. And there are some promising new reactor models that can even reuse old nuclear waste while we're at it, chopping down the half-life of existing waste by a lot.

In addition, there are other reactor models that can produce lots of energy without involving or creating weapons-grade materials. If we can get a lot of expertise in building these, we could offer that capability to rogue nations like North Korea and Iran, both of whom like to claim that they just want the energy, not the plutonium. If we said "OK, we'll give you one of these plants," then that puts their claim to a critical test.

But I don't think we should hitch our wagon to only one horse on the energy issue. It still seems to me like a completely diversified energy portfolio is going to end up being the only viable way to meet our needs in the long term while minimizing negative consequences. Do some nuclear, but also keep a little oil around, go heavy into solar, wind and wave, keep working on biofuels, and plug it all into one big grid. If we have problems with one of them (and it seems like we always end up having problems with any form of energy generation) then we can shuffle the balance and lean on the others to compensate.

461 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:27:22pm

re: #450 reine.de.tout

I actually got a dressing down from charles once on essentially the same thing.

The way LGF (of that period) looked from the outside is way different than the way it looked from the inside, so it seems fair to give people a second chance for getting on the wrong track.

462 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:27:39pm

re: #454 ProLifeLiberal

A very good thing, considering what happened when a certain Soviet power plant malfunctioned without the various redundancies we have on ours.

Quite Concur.

463 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:28:16pm

re: #459 reine.de.tout

Use those at work sometimes.

464 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:28:53pm

re: #463 windsagio

Use those at work sometimes.

*shudder*
I'm glad I don't work where you do, then.

465 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:29:48pm

re: #446 Fozzie Bear

It will be within a few years. There needs to be heavy investment before that happens, not after.

yes, we should start now!! ah, i love reaching consensus/

466 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:29:54pm

re: #413 elbruce

Reviewing that thread, I pretty much did stumble clear over the line into trolling last night. Sorry, everybody. I've posted an apology in the appropriate thread and would like to reiterate it here, both to Charles and to the community of regulars.

(I still think Israel is being big meanies, though)

After vouching for you last night and seeing the mess you made, I was pissed that you made me look bad. I know you are a straight shooter and capable of honest respectful debate.
Glad to see you admit your indiscretion. Rather than dwell on our differences, this is a blog that works because Charles post about issues that piss off moderates from both sides of the spectrum.

467 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:30:05pm

re: #464 reine.de.tout

haha takes a certain mindset, I admit :)

468 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:30:54pm

re: #466 Reginald Perrin

its hard to engage on the issues bruce was talking about last night and not get annoyed tho', I kinda feel for him >>

469 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:32:06pm

re: #468 windsagio

its hard to engage on the issues bruce was talking about last night and not get annoyed tho', I kinda feel for him >>

La cage aux folles...

470 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:32:12pm

re: #461 windsagio

I actually got a dressing down from charles once on essentially the same thing.

The way LGF (of that period) looked from the outside is way different than the way it looked from the inside, so it seems fair to give people a second chance for getting on the wrong track.

Agreed. LGF has never been "hard-right", as Charles has always worked to keep out the crazies.

471 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:32:15pm

re: #453 Aceofwhat?

Oh, I was looking at the wrong column. Apologies. However, putting it in terms of 'worst' is begging the question; bad form.

The difference between California and Florida is only 2%. That's odd; I would have thought it'd be much bigger than that.

The tax structure in California is definitely all kinds of fucked up, but one of the biggest problems is actually Prop 13-- a lack of ability to tax property. That one has been screwing with us for a long, long time.

And yes, the Universities are expensive. They're also hella worth it, not just for California, but for the nation.

472 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #471 Obdicut

The initiative system is one of those things that only looks good on paper.

473 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:33:22pm

re: #466 Reginald Perrin

I believe you mean extremists, not moderates, unless you've got a more surreal worldview than I thought.

474 Nimed  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:33:57pm

re: #327 tradewind

You really wouldn't want some of the raunchier comments about say, Sarah Palin ...that have been made here held up as an example of ' a typical comment on LGF '.

I agree. Each blog has its own policy regarding comments -- and obviously, the more a blogger has control over the comment section -- by limiting registration, interacting with commenters, having methods for commenters policing themselves, etc -- the more "responsible" they are for the blog's comments.

My point was that, if you are going to judge a blog by the comments, you should be consistent (not hypocritical) about it.

475 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:34:59pm

From the "WTF" department...

NY candidate: Prison dorms for welfare recipients

Republican candidate for governor Carl Paladino said he would transform some New York prisons into dormitories for welfare recipients, where they could work in state-sponsored jobs, get employment training and take lessons in "personal hygiene."

Damn, dirty, poor people.

476 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:35:29pm

re: #475 JasonA

Leeches I say, Leeches on the captains of industry!

477 HoosierHoops  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:36:11pm

re: #454 ProLifeLiberal

A very good thing, considering what happened when a certain Soviet power plant malfunctioned without the various redundancies we have on ours.

It didn't malfunction...It was caused by a stupid engineering test...
/Here hold my beer..Shut down the cooling system and let's spin this bitch up and see what happens!
Yahoo!

478 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:38:13pm

re: #477 HoosierHoops

It didn't malfunction...It was caused by a stupid engineering test...
/Here hold my beer..Shut down the cooling system and let's spin this bitch up and see what happens!
Yahoo!

Without a failsafe...

479 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:38:18pm

re: #321 tradewind

Okay. I suppose those printed speech drafts that contain the presidential misstatements count as examples of illiteracy./ Whatev. This example just doesn't seem to rise to the level of ' Get thee to an ESL class'.

Well, don't change the subject. No one was talking about presidential misstatements, okay? You said he "misspoke", and I said he didn't because he took the time to write down that poorly written English. So he has no excuse.

And nobody said it rose to the level of "ESL" stuff. What else are you going to throw out there to justify his idiocy?

480 palomino  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:38:42pm

re: #386 tradewind

Obama's chief economic advisor, Christina Romer is high-tailing it back to Berkeley and taking her ' unemployment won't go over 8% ' predictions with her, and she is a prime example of what happens when you put academics instead of business-experienced people in charge.

Weren't "business-experienced people" in these positions in 2007-2008?

481 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:38:47pm

re: #477 HoosierHoops

If Chernobyl was as built with the number of redundancies that our reactors had, the spread of radiation would be much smaller. Because of the small number of redundancies, the radioactive fallout ended up over much of Europe.

482 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:38:58pm

re: #476 windsagio

Leeches I say, Leeches on the captains of industry!

I'm not sure he could have been more offensive had he been trying.

Asked at the meeting how he would achieve those savings, Paladino laid out several plans that included converting underused state prisons into centers that would house welfare recipients. There, they would do work for the state - "military service, in some cases park service, in other cases public works service," he said - while prison guards would be retrained to work as counselors.

"Instead of handing out the welfare checks, we'll teach people how to earn their check. We'll teach them personal hygiene ... the personal things they don't get when they come from dysfunctional homes," Paladino said.

You know, I've always liked the idea of training people for work instead of just handing the unemployment checks, but... personal hygiene?!?

483 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:39:27pm

re: #455 Obdicut


I know you really want there to be a magic bullet for AGW; I caution you that precisely because you are a positive, optimistic person who wants there to be a solution, that you may be only seeing the solution, and not also the problems.

In California, with the current budget problems, the governor is not going to be able to do a hell of a lot to push forwards nuclear energy. Not opposing it is actually a big deal, given how many of the barriers in the way of a nuclear plant are actually lawsuits from the state government.

dammit. you had to go and compliment me//

i am happy to meet at what you wrote above, with two exceptions:
1. i am certainly not seeing all of the problems. however, there are also problems with deploying wind and solar power on a large scale. Brown ought not to exclude any of these technologies from his platform.

2. if nothing else, the governor has a bully pulpit. i am happy to acknowledge that you have a better grasp on the California-specific situation, but at the very least, Brown could be agitating verbally and loudly against whatever barriers he faces WRT nuclear plant construction and research.

i grant

484 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:39:36pm

re: #470 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. LGF has never been "hard-right", as Charles has always worked to keep out the crazies.

Well then, I'm pleased to have been so thoroughly schooled on my misconception.

485 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:40:08pm

re: #468 windsagio

its hard to engage on the issues bruce was talking about last night and not get annoyed tho', I kinda feel for him >>

He picked the wrong issues.
He is a newbie and that is probably the worst mistake a hatchling can make.

It will be interesting to see if he can dig himself out of the hole he has dug.

486 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:40:24pm

re: #483 Aceofwhat?

i grant


I accept!

487 HoosierHoops  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:41:09pm

re: #478 talon_262

Without a failsafe...

Absolutely valid point...

488 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:41:18pm

re: #485 Reginald Perrin

Seems to be doing fine >

489 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:41:38pm

re: #485 Reginald Perrin

He picked the wrong issues.
He is a newbie and that is probably the worst mistake a hatchling can make.

It will be interesting to see if he can dig himself out of the hole he has dug.

Like I said last night, he was damn lucky to stumble into the crew that he did. If Walter, Mandy and DF were there at the time we'd still be picking up the pieces...

490 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:42:32pm

re: #475 JasonA

From the "WTF" department...

NY candidate: Prison dorms for welfare recipients

Damn, dirty, poor people.

We could just put the whole country in prison and that would solve all our social problems! Heck, then we could hire the U.S.A. out to other countries as a penal colony to pay for it all.

/sarcasm

491 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:42:54pm

re: #489 JasonA

Like I said last night, he was damn lucky to stumble into the crew that he did. If Walter, Mandy and DF were there at the time we'd still be picking up the pieces...

What did I do now? Or didn't do? What are you talking about? I went to bed early last night. I'm leaving for work soon. So, what am I going to miss tonight?

I'm so confused.

492 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:43:14pm

re: #485 Reginald Perrin

He picked the wrong issues.
He is a newbie and that is probably the worst mistake a hatchling can make.

It will be interesting to see if he can dig himself out of the hole he has dug.

you may be taking blog commenting a little too seriously ;-)

493 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:43:53pm

Off Topic, but it looks like there is a little hatchling in the Eastern Atlantic. I'll be back in a few hours. I'm going to an event at one of the para-churches on campus.

494 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:44:04pm

re: #491 Walter L. Newton

Its a fun read, look it up :p

Jason's overselling people tho' ;)

495 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:44:12pm

re: #491 Walter L. Newton

What did I do now? Or didn't do? What are you talking about? I went to bed early last night. I'm leaving for work soon. So, what am I going to miss tonight?

I'm so confused.

It was almost a compliment, actually. I was only saying that, had you been around when elbruce made his Israel comments, he would have been raked over the coals.

496 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:44:49pm

re: #495 JasonA

The worst people actually to fight on that subject are Ludwig, Cato and SFZ. (for differeing reasons)

497 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:45:02pm

re: #496 windsagio

*trust me, I know ;)

498 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:45:05pm

re: #460 elbruce


I do. And there are some promising new reactor models that can even reuse old nuclear waste while we're at it, chopping down the half-life of existing waste by a lot.

In addition, there are other reactor models that can produce lots of energy without involving or creating weapons-grade materials. If we can get a lot of expertise in building these, we could offer that capability to rogue nations like North Korea and Iran, both of whom like to claim that they just want the energy, not the plutonium. If we said "OK, we'll give you one of these plants," then that puts their claim to a critical test.

But I don't think we should hitch our wagon to only one horse on the energy issue. It still seems to me like a completely diversified energy portfolio is going to end up being the only viable way to meet our needs in the long term while minimizing negative consequences. Do some nuclear, but also keep a little oil around, go heavy into solar, wind and wave, keep working on biofuels, and plug it all into one big grid. If we have problems with one of them (and it seems like we always end up having problems with any form of energy generation) then we can shuffle the balance and lean on the others to compensate.

Diversification is good, no question.

WRT non-uranium power plants, i've posted a few pages about liquid fuel thorium reactors. it's my new kick...

499 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:45:20pm

re: #484 elbruce

Well then, I'm pleased to have been so thoroughly schooled on my misconception.

Charles made an interesting post the other day, showing a post of his back in the day warning that not everyone joining the anti-Jihad bandwagon was a good person to associate with. A lot of the commenters back then didn't give a shit-- but Charles still did.

The way that he explains it, he was still in a learning process in the earlier days of this blog, and he gave credence to people he later realized he shouldn't, and didn't moderate things that he later realized he should. It's an explanation that rings true, especially when one looks at his realization about the anti-AGW propaganda and the loathsomeness of a lot of the 'anti-jihad' types.

There is not a hell of a lot to be gained from trying to analyze the past, I don't think. The future is now, and currently Charles is doing an excellent job of lambasting the crazy shit that's broken out in the country from the 'right-wing' side.

Finally, on Israel, there is one inescapable problem: All of the Arab states purposefully keep the Palestine-Israel conflict enflamed, because it's politically beneficial for them to do so. Most of the problems for the Palestinians could have been solved already by the Arab states granting Palestinians citizenship rather than keeping them in camps, and by the Arab states diplomatically recognizing Israel. Israel certainly makes some bad decisions, and certainly some of those are morally culpable, but Israel has no ability to actually solve the situation unilaterally.

500 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:45:28pm

re: #494 windsagio

Its a fun read, look it up :p

Jason's overselling people tho' ;)

Overselling? I don't think so. The Lizards I named would have been rougher, I think. That's all.

501 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:46:38pm

re: #500 JasonA

Hah, actually maybe I should recuse myself, you don't wanna get into an analysis of this sort, somebody will end up offended >>

502 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:47:01pm

re: #413 elbruce

Reviewing that thread, I pretty much did stumble clear over the line into trolling last night. Sorry, everybody. I've posted an apology in the appropriate thread and would like to reiterate it here, both to Charles and to the community of regulars.

I appreciate the apology. But I'm still wondering where you got the idea that I "begged" anyone at Think Progress to accept LGF.

If you weren't just trolling with that comment, I strongly suspect you were fooled by one of the brain-dead idiots who goes around to other sites and posts comments pretending to be me.

503 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:47:08pm

re: #495 JasonA

It was almost a compliment, actually. I was only saying that, had you been around when elbruce made his Israel comments, he would have been raked over the coals.

Got it... we have another Windy... huh?

504 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:47:23pm

re: #479 Wayne A. Schneider
Re the ESL , from the original post:

Is English his first language ?
505 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:47:40pm

re: #499 Obdicut

There is not a hell of a lot to be gained from trying to analyze the past, I don't think.

This exactly. Looking back is always iffy, and does no good.

506 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:48:10pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Got it... we have another Windy... huh?

Funny you should say that. One of my comments from last night:

Christ, are all of you Oregonians like this?!?
507 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:48:28pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

He looks to be less annoying than me.

Actually argues on normal lines, and doesn't have my bad habit of going after peoples motivations ;)

508 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:48:39pm

re: #482 JasonA

I'm not sure he could have been more offensive had he been trying.

You know, I've always liked the idea of training people for work instead of just handing the unemployment checks, but... personal hygiene?!?

it's funny, my cousin was on welfare for a while due to some really horrid circumstances in her life inflicted on her family that were not her fault, she's a very earnest, very serious conservative woman who does not take shit, the notion of someone laying this "hang out in the prison and be told by some moron prison guard how to brush your teeth" on her, it'd be amazing to see

509 tradewind  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:49:17pm

Have a fun Saturday night!
Out.

510 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:50:19pm

re: #508 WindUpBird

it's funny, my cousin was on welfare for a while due to some really horrid circumstances in her life inflicted on her family that were not her fault, she's a very earnest, very serious conservative woman who does not take shit, the notion of someone laying this "hang out in the prison and be told by some moron prison guard how to brush your teeth" on her, it'd be amazing to see

I've known prison guards. They're generally good people, but switching from that to counseling is ill-advised. Two very different skillsets.

511 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:50:32pm

re: #413 elbruce

(I still think Israel is being big meanies, though)

Yeah, being granted a homeland by the UN, getting attacked immediately by six Arab armies, somehow surviving as a nation, getting attacked again in several more wars of aggression, somehow surviving those, and having your citizens murdered in random terror attacks over and over and over again while still giving full rights of citizenship to non-Jews within your borders = the biggest meanies ever. Israel is the Neighborhood Bully.

Have fun defending that position here while Windsagio dances attendance on your every ignorant assertion and tweaks the noses of anyone who might disagree. I'm sure he's delighted to make the acquaintance of someone who can at least present a semblance of rational argument rather than just mocking and capering about.

512 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:51:30pm

Sigh here we go yet again.

513 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:51:42pm

re: #507 windsagio

He looks to be less annoying than me.

Actually argues on normal lines, and doesn't have my bad habit of going after peoples motivations ;)

Is that possible?

The annoying part I mean.

514 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:52:00pm

re: #513 b_sharp

Less? Sure!

More? I dunno :)

515 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:52:25pm

re: #511 Cato the Elder

Yeah, being granted a homeland by the UN, getting attacked immediately by six Arab armies, somehow surviving as a nation, getting attacked again in several more wars of aggression, somehow surviving those, and having your citizens murdered in random terror attacks over and over and over again while still giving full rights of citizenship to non-Jews within your borders = the biggest meanies ever. Israel is the Neighborhood Bully.

Have fun defending that position here while Windsagio dances attendance on your every ignorant assertion and tweaks the noses of anyone who might disagree. I'm sure he's delighted to make the acquaintance of someone who can at least present a semblance of rational argument rather than just mocking and capering about.

Elbruce can supply the commentary while Windy supplies the pictorials. Cute combination.

516 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:52:30pm
More than a half-billion eggs have been recalled in the nationwide investigation of a salmonella outbreak that Friday expanded to include a second Iowa farm. The outbreak has already sickened more than 1,000 people and the toll of illnesses is expected to increase.

I'm all Egoo for the foreseeable future.

517 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:53:04pm

re: #516 JasonA

I'm all Eggo for the foreseeable future.

pimf

518 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:53:58pm

re: #502 Charles

I appreciate the apology. But I'm still wondering where you got the idea that I "begged" anyone at Think Progress to accept LGF.

If you weren't just trolling with that comment, I strongly suspect you were fooled by one of the brain-dead idiots who goes around to other sites and posts comments pretending to be me.

I think this is most likely what happened.

519 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:01pm

re: #515 Walter L. Newton

I giggled :)

Pictoral for you, buddy!

520 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:24pm

re: #499 Obdicut

Charles made an interesting post the other day, showing a post of his back in the day warning that not everyone joining the anti-Jihad bandwagon was a good person to associate with. A lot of the commenters back then didn't give a shit-- but Charles still did.

The way that he explains it, he was still in a learning process in the earlier days of this blog, and he gave credence to people he later realized he shouldn't, and didn't moderate things that he later realized he should. It's an explanation that rings true, especially when one looks at his realization about the anti-AGW propaganda and the loathsomeness of a lot of the 'anti-jihad' types.

There is not a hell of a lot to be gained from trying to analyze the past, I don't think. The future is now, and currently Charles is doing an excellent job of lambasting the crazy shit that's broken out in the country from the 'right-wing' side.

. . . .

And adding just a bit to that -
The old post Charles referenced was one when his stance then was exactly the same as it is today (the beginning, actually).

Many of the folks seen in the thread on that post are now gone (flounced or banned), because, "He chaaanged! wah-wah-wah". That post shows clearly that Charles did not change. What changed was the political climate, and the actions of various characters on each side (left, right).

521 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:47pm

Afternoon.

Just got back from 3 days of camping where my wife slipped and badly bruised her coccyx and has a hell of a time sitting, and getting up from sitting.

I told her to lie down on the grass at the camp site and I'd be back to get her in a couple of weeks.

For some reason she got pissed off.

Women!

522 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:49pm

re: #484 elbruce

Well then, I'm pleased to have been so thoroughly schooled on my misconception.

if you're here to indict a blog that doesn't exist anymore, you're going to get real boring, real fast

I'm a liberal, so I'm not coming at you from politics, but this whole "I read a thing on LGF from 2004 whoa man heavy it was like the most extreme thing ever" rap you have going, it's real dull, real tired, and we've not interested.

Like I said yesterday, I'm interested in the blog I registered at, the LGF of 2009. Not the LGf of 2004, 2005,2006, or 2007. I could give fuck one about who was commenting five years ago. NJDHockeyfan is already trying to dredge up years old stale talking points about Kos, and you're doing the same crapola about Kos! Maybe you two should, I dunno, have a drinking contest or something. I hear enough about irrelevant gibbering rejects who were banned from LGF for various racist, abusive, or anti-science nonsense, and I simply don't care.

The posts Charles is making these days? I like them. That's why I registered. That's why I'm here. It's really just that fucking simple.

523 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:50pm

re: #519 windsagio

Actually, what in God's name is he wearing in that clip? A giant dunce cap?

524 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:54:55pm

re: #515 Walter L. Newton

Elbruce can supply the commentary while Windy supplies the pictorials. Cute combination.

I was hoping for interpretive dance.

525 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:55:28pm

re: #491 Walter L. Newton

What did I do now? Or didn't do? What are you talking about? I went to bed early last night. I'm leaving for work soon. So, what am I going to miss tonight?

I'm so confused.

He means that if ElBruce had gone after conservatives when you and I were on the boards, he'd have gotten a rough reception.

526 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:55:35pm

re: #499 Obdicut

Charles made an interesting post the other day, showing a post of his back in the day warning that not everyone joining the anti-Jihad bandwagon was a good person to associate with. A lot of the commenters back then didn't give a shit-- but Charles still did.

The way that he explains it, he was still in a learning process in the earlier days of this blog, and he gave credence to people he later realized he shouldn't, and didn't moderate things that he later realized he should. It's an explanation that rings true, especially when one looks at his realization about the anti-AGW propaganda and the loathsomeness of a lot of the 'anti-jihad' types.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate, but I would add a point about moderating comments. In the first few years after LGF started to really become popular, I did believe that it was better not to moderate comments -- a naive view that I've since completely reconsidered.

But many comments were posted here and remained on the site not because I had a laissez faire attitude about them, but because I didn't even know they existed. The software I was using at the time was quite primitive -- there was no comment reporting function, no Ajax, no advanced admin screening tools, no quick way to delete comments, etc. And I only had time to scan a small fraction of the number of comments that were posted every day.

So another big reason why LGF is being more effectively moderated these days is because I went through an intensive redesigning and programming period, specifically to start addressing those weaknesses in the software, and ended up with a completely custom-programmed system.

So yes, there was a change in my attitude toward moderation, but there was also a vast improvement in the software that allowed better moderation. And I also now have several monitor lizards who help out when I'm not around or busy, and delete any really nasty stuff before it can ruin a thread.

527 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:56:16pm

re: #471 Obdicut

Oh, I was looking at the wrong column. Apologies. However, putting it in terms of 'worst' is begging the question; bad form.

The difference between California and Florida is only 2%. That's odd; I would have thought it'd be much bigger than that.

The tax structure in California is definitely all kinds of fucked up, but one of the biggest problems is actually Prop 13-- a lack of ability to tax property. That one has been screwing with us for a long, long time.

And yes, the Universities are expensive. They're also hella worth it, not just for California, but for the nation.

well, 3% in the most recent year (2008). and that 3% ought to be buying you more than the universities...

528 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:56:40pm

re: #485 Reginald Perrin

Well he did correct his use of the "good war" remark in reply to a post I made last night as well as updinging my post even after I called him a troll. Plus he apologized to Charles. So I would say at the least that he has stopped digging the hole any deeper. But damn, I think he has been the one and only person on this blog to consider me a liberal. Or at least call me one to my face.

"I can see how that terminology might disturb you; as it should probably disturb any sensitive, liberal person."

529 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:57:18pm

re: #510 JasonA

I've known prison guards. They're generally good people, but switching from that to counseling is ill-advised. Two very different skillsets.

I've known a couple, they weren't bad people but they sure weren't critical thinkers and yeah, the notion of them being social workers? Amazing. A lot of crossover in social work between health care and corrections in the BAD way, as in corrections guy gets fired, needs a job, gets a job at a group home, still thinks he's running a jail. I've worked with those people. Bleh..

530 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:57:34pm

re: #526 Charles

Sorry about that; I always forget that the blog has changed technologically over time as well. I don't know why I forget, given that some of these changes have happened during the time I've been here, like the sweet-ass picture-posting-in-thread dealio that I love.

531 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:58:27pm

re: #529 WindUpBird

That is indeed a nightmare combination.

oh PS: Mad at XXX right now, he dumped one of their worst employees on our house.

532 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:58:31pm

And then some things never change... they just get sober.

533 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:58:38pm

re: #504 tradewind

Okay, I see where you got that. My mistake. Still, I stand by the rest of what I said. This was not "misspeaking". That didn't come from a transcript of his radio or TV show. That was him writing it down, and he wrote it down very poorly for everyone in the world to see. (Or, rather, whoever wrote his stuff for his blog wrote it down very poorly.)

534 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 3:59:05pm

re: #532 Walter L. Newton

And then some things never change... they just get sober.

You said it, not me ;)

535 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:00:32pm

re: #521 b_sharp

Afternoon.

Just got back from 3 days of camping where my wife slipped and badly bruised her coccyx and has a hell of a time sitting, and getting up from sitting.

I told her to lie down on the grass at the camp site and I'd be back to get her in a couple of weeks.

For some reason she got pissed off.

Women!

The coccyx is proof that we evolved from monkeys with tails!

536 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:00:54pm

re: #527 Aceofwhat?

well, 3% in the most recent year (2008). and that 3% ought to be buying you more than the universities...

And it probably is. I have no idea how to go about analyzing the differences between what's being spent on in two different states, at all. I'm sure there's a lot of bullshit expenditure in California-- I'm also sure that it was a fantastic place to live, and I hope to move back there in seven years.

New York is fucking sweet too, in so far as the subways go. They're so freaking fast I can do errands here faster than I could back in SF. I can get to the Trader Joes that's seventy-odd blocks away as fast as I could walk to the one uphill from me in SF.

537 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:01:00pm

re: #534 windsagio

You said it, not me ;)

Would you stop with the silly emoticons... I feel like there is a 12 year old on the other end of the intertubes.

538 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:01:19pm

re: #537 Walter L. Newton

No can do!

539 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:01:30pm

re: #473 Obdicut

I believe you mean extremists, not moderates, unless you've got a more surreal worldview than I thought.

No, maybe my wording was awkward.
What I am trying to say is that Charles posts a lot of threads where there is agreement amongst moderates, and they collectively vent regarding the day's outrageous outrage.

540 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:01:55pm

re: #522 WindUpBird

maybe I'm coming on a little strong about this, but the whole "mainstream blog did a thing years ago let's hijack a thread and talk about old LGF or old Kos", ugh, so tired

541 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:02:33pm

And one more point -- people often seem to assume that I read every comment posted at LGF, and I'm sorry to report that I don't possess that particular super-power. Even with the custom software, with ~3000 comments posted per day I still miss a large percentage of the comments posted.

542 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:02:34pm

re: #535 Cato the Elder

The coccyx is proof that we evolved from monkeys with tails!

When did we evolve from monkeys? We're still monkeys.

We're just real good at faking it.

543 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:03:04pm

re: #489 JasonA

Like I said last night, he was damn lucky to stumble into the crew that he did. If Walter, Mandy and DF were there at the time we'd still be picking up the pieces...

what...i can't throw down when i feel like it? come on//

544 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:03:11pm

re: #539 Reginald Perrin

No, maybe my wording was awkward.
What I am trying to say is that Charles posts a lot of threads where there is agreement amongst moderates, and they collectively vent regarding the day's outrageous outrage.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry for misinterpreting.

I agree. This is a good place for passionate moderates, not just people who are moderate due to apathy.

Though there are some Magical Balance Fairy devotees.

545 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:04:14pm

re: #537 Walter L. Newton

Would you stop with the silly emoticons... I feel like there is a 12 year old on the other end of the intertubes.

This is probably just a generation gap thing. My boss (well, the owner) at my software development contract gig uses way more emoticons than Windy does (and I talk to him a lot online through chat programs to coordinate) and he's in his late 40's.

Anyway, we're not going to stop, this is how we communicate. We use emoticons.

546 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:04:15pm

re: #526 Charles

But many comments were posted here and remained on the site not because I had a laissez faire attitude about them, but because I didn't even know they existed.

You don't read each and every comment?

*runs in circles screaming/hair on fire*

547 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:04:24pm

re: #537 Walter L. Newton

Would you stop with the silly emoticons... I feel like there is a 12 year old on the other end of the intertubes.

Show us some un-silly emoticons.

548 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:04:38pm

re: #540 WindUpBird

maybe I'm coming on a little strong about this, but the whole "mainstream blog did a thing years ago let's hijack a thread and talk about old LGF or old Kos", ugh, so tired

There might be some interesting things about the "old blogs" to talk about, but the agenda of those who want to have that discussion always seems to be the same. Hence, as you say, so tired.

549 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:04:50pm

re: #542 b_sharp

When did we evolve from monkeys? We're still monkeys.

We're just real good at faking it.

I just want a real tail, is all. Would that be too much to ask?

Maybe it can be bioengineered one of these days.

550 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:05:26pm

It also occurs to me my mother uses emoticons like I do, hah

Though I think that's the reverse, she got her internet diction from me because we shoot the shit over email about cat breeds and Disney trivia

551 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:06:45pm

re: #545 WindUpBird

This is probably just a generation gap thing. My boss (well, the owner) at my software development contract gig uses way more emoticons than Windy does (and I talk to him a lot online through chat programs to coordinate) and he's in his late 40's.

Anyway, we're not going to stop, this is how we communicate. We use emoticons.

Yeah, I'm particularly enamored of the little tongue-sticking-out one that graces a particular poster's every other comment.

It communicates high seriousness and a willingness to debate in good faith.

Or something.

552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:06:52pm

re: #550 WindUpBird

Smiley face with a wink.

553 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:07:01pm

re: #545 WindUpBird

This is probably just a generation gap thing. My boss (well, the owner) at my software development contract gig uses way more emoticons than Windy does (and I talk to him a lot online through chat programs to coordinate) and he's in his late 40's.

Anyway, we're not going to stop, this is how we communicate. We use emoticons.

Sometimes I feel like such a mutant. I chat differently depending on the audience. I'll use tons of
:)
:D
:(
>:O with certain people.
With others, like here, I abstain. *shrug*

554 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #553 JasonA


I don't like 'em. My wife uses them. Sometimes, when I'm tired, I'll use one back to her. She considers it a personal victory when I do.

:(

Dammit!

555 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:08:06pm

re: #547 b_sharp

:

556 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:08:10pm

re: #554 Obdicut

I don't like 'em. My wife uses them. Sometimes, when I'm tired, I'll use one back to her. She considers it a personal victory when I do.

:(

Dammit!

:'O

557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:08:47pm

My niece got back from Afganistan (safely yay!) last month.

Found out the afternoon, I have another niece leaving for Afganistan tomorrow.

Those poor, poor bastards.

558 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:09:02pm

reading the above comments, I'm thinking more and more 'generation gap' as the right answer. Either you're used to and comfortable with them, or you're not.

Easy enough to ignore tho' ;)

559 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:09:03pm

re: #549 Cato the Elder

I just want a real tail, is all. Would that be too much to ask?

Maybe it can be bioengineered one of these days.

A tail would be cool, but trying to figure out what to do with it when you're dancing would be a bugger.

560 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:09:12pm

re: #553 JasonA

Sometimes I feel like such a mutant. I chat differently depending on the audience. I'll use tons of
:)
:D
:(
>:O with certain people.
With others, like here, I abstain. *shrug*

You can usually tell when I'm tired and posting on LGF because I start to treat it way more like instant messaging. If I start using emoticons or "ye ye" for yes you know I've probably been awake for a few days.

561 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:09:59pm

re: #558 windsagio

reading the above comments, I'm thinking more and more 'generation gap' as the right answer. Either you're used to and comfortable with them, or you're not.

Easy enough to ignore tho' ;)

Like I said... 12 years old.

562 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:10:20pm

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Please thank your nieces for their service to our country. And I'm glad to hear she got back okay.

563 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:10:26pm

re: #560 McSpiff

I don't see why you should treat it differently tho', its not like this is a symposium or a lecture at Yale or something.

564 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:10:43pm

re: #561 Walter L. Newton

When you're 80, everyone looks like they're 12 :p

565 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:09pm

re: #553 JasonA

Sometimes I feel like such a mutant. I chat differently depending on the audience. I'll use tons of
:)
:D
:(
>:O with certain people.
With others, like here, I abstain. *shrug*

Chicken. ;->
:P

566 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:24pm

re: #548 wrenchwench

There might be some interesting things about the "old blogs" to talk about, but the agenda of those who want to have that discussion always seems to be the same. Hence, as you say, so tired.

YES

I like a reasoned discussion about the blog climate of the mid 2000s, everyone was learning, everyone was starting from scratch. Youtube didn't EXIST before 2005. We can't even imagine anymore, a world without youtube. The ipod is only as old as 9/11. feature that! We take it for granted now. Fascinating stuff, like Charles talking about the evolution of his tracking tools, how there's behaviors ahead of the tools, then as the tools evolve (and people get banned, hah) they realize that it wasn't that their words were tolerated, they just weren't caught. The internet evolves so quickly, if transportation evolved like the internet does, we'd have space elevators and teleporters by now.

But because the internet evolves quickly, people forget that 5 years ago was decades ago in internet time, they forget that the standards have changed, they make a judgement on years old behavior.

But no it's the same dumb rap: Kos is racist Kos hates jews Kos is racist Kos hates jews Kos is racist Kos hates jews Kos is racist Kos hates jews Kos is racist Kos hates jews we alllways hear from the same guy, always trying to distract from the posts

567 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:34pm

re: #502 Charles

If you weren't just trolling with that comment, I strongly suspect you were fooled by one of the brain-dead idiots who goes around to other sites and posts comments pretending to be me.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, now. ThinkProgress' moderation is even less effective than say, 4chan's is.

Frankly, what I deserve would be to have gotten the boot without any ado, so thanks for showing some mercy. Must remember to keep my hands away from any keyboard next time I get that dronk...

.

re: #511 Cato the Elder

Israel is the Neighborhood Bully.

Like I said before, we can play tit-for-tat all day (dibs on the "tit" side, btw).

It's just... I'm not Jewish, but half my family is, including my daughter. And it just seems to me that if you're going to call your country "Israel" and make the flag a mogendavid over a tallit, then you should adhere to a much higer ethical standard than the other guy. Otherwise, it's kind of insulting to Judaism itself.

As an aside, this is ultimately a problem with any state religion; the country then gets compared to the morals and ethics supposedly upheld by the religion they proclaim, and in practice, everybody's going to fall short.

I recognize that many, many Muslim nations do the same thing with their flags and so forth. So maybe I'm engaging in a little liberal-style bigotry by expecting far more from Israel than from its neighbors in terms of adhering to the highest ideals of its touted religion. I'm willing to cop to that, to some extent. But I point my wagging finger at Israel not because I hate them or really think they're awful, but because I expect more from them than from the next guy.

If Israel can start sticking to the ethical standard upheld by Judaism, then I'd be willing to start doing the same thing to the Arab countries, and start quoting some good bits from the Qu'ran at them regarding their own bad behavior. I just want Israel to shape up first, and be the good guys that I expect them to be. Either that or change their name and their flag.

568 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:34pm

re: #536 Obdicut

And it probably is. I have no idea how to go about analyzing the differences between what's being spent on in two different states, at all. I'm sure there's a lot of bullshit expenditure in California-- I'm also sure that it was a fantastic place to live, and I hope to move back there in seven years.

New York is fucking sweet too, in so far as the subways go. They're so freaking fast I can do errands here faster than I could back in SF. I can get to the Trader Joes that's seventy-odd blocks away as fast as I could walk to the one uphill from me in SF.

don't get me wrong...there are great places to live in every state. and yes, i am being half-serious - that money can't all be waste, right?

the only time i think it's really instructive to dwell on the tax policy comparisons from state to state is when somebody gets all "nooo, you can't lower taxes and spending, the XXX will starve, suffer and/or die".

fortunately, you tend not to do that.

569 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:39pm

re: #560 McSpiff

You can usually tell when I'm tired and posting on LGF because I start to treat it way more like instant messaging. If I start using emoticons or "ye ye" for yes you know I've probably been awake for a few days.

I've never even sent a instant message (outside of a business I worked for on contract, it was required to use instant messaging). I've never sent a text message on a phone. To quote "I'm thinking more and more 'generation gap' as the right answer" may be right.

570 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:11:58pm

re: #553 JasonA

I only bust out the anime smileys when it's late :D

571 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:12:33pm

re: #564 windsagio

When you're 80, everyone looks like they're 12 :p

Well, this 80 year old is fixing to go do a 4 1/2 hour shift at the store and then stop at the gym to power walk a few miles... before it snows.

572 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #563 windsagio

I don't see why you should treat it differently tho', its not like this is a symposium or a lecture at Yale or something.

I understand their usefulness in a chat setting, in real time, but there is something to learning how to express yourself with words.

573 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:13:06pm

re: #564 windsagio

When you're 80, everyone looks like they're 12 :p

Get off my lawn dammit.

;-P

574 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:13:45pm

re: #563 windsagio

I don't see why you should treat it differently tho', its not like this is a symposium or a lecture at Yale or something.

Well, its a medium for communication. And so is my language. Using more precise and generally 'proper' language for political discourse seems the most effective here. Less back tracking to re-explain poorly phrased points, etc. When I'm talking with my buddies about getting wasted and picking up chicks, I use language effective for that.

575 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:14:30pm

re: #568 Aceofwhat?

don't get me wrong...there are great places to live in every state. and yes, i am being half-serious - that money can't all be waste, right?

the only time i think it's really instructive to dwell on the tax policy comparisons from state to state is when somebody gets all "nooo, you can't lower taxes and spending, the XXX will starve, suffer and/or die".

fortunately, you tend not to do that.

Heeyyy Ace! Waz-up?

576 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:14:37pm

re: #571 Walter L. Newton

Well, this 80 year old is fixing to go do a 4 1/2 hour shift at the store and then stop at the gym to power walk a few miles... before it snows.

Snow in August. There is something awesome about that. For those of us who don't have to shovel or drive in it.

577 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:15:03pm

re: #562 Wayne A. Schneider

Hi Wayne,

You have an avatar that shows up in the Spy, but not on this page or in your profile. It happens sometimes. I don't know why, but it has something to do with how you uploaded it, I think.

578 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:15:30pm

re: #571 Walter L. Newton

Yer a tough old man!

579 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:15:46pm

re: #569 Walter L. Newton

I've never even sent a instant message (outside of a business I worked for on contract, it was required to use instant messaging). I've never sent a text message on a phone. To quote "I'm thinking more and more 'generation gap' as the right answer" may be right.

I use around 3 instant messaging protocols daily, through a multiprotocol app. Use one professionally at work. Any given month I'll send between 1k-2k text messages. But yet we can still communicate. LGF must be some sort of Rosetta Stone. Truly amazing.

580 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:15:46pm

re: #571 Walter L. Newton

Well, this 80 year old is fixing to go do a 4 1/2 hour shift at the store and then stop at the gym to power walk a few miles... before it snows.

Snow?

Ouch.

And here I am complaining about leaves yellowing already.

581 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:16:07pm

re: #572 JasonA

I understand their usefulness in a chat setting, in real time, but there is something to learning how to express yourself with words.

On a serious note, that is my concern too. As a writer it does concern me to see the language devolve to pictographs again. I thought we were over that 45 thousand years ago.

And I realize it easier to use shortcuts, I suspect sometimes people wish I would, because I get rather sloppy sometimes with my spelling and grammar... but, that's besides the point. We are moving into a rather strange way to communicate.

We have this great new tool, and yet, some of the methods we are using are a throwback to eons ago.

Interesting.

582 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:16:23pm

re: #536 Obdicut

New York is fucking sweet too, in so far as the subways go. They're so freaking fast I can do errands here faster than I could back in SF. I can get to the Trader Joes that's seventy-odd blocks away as fast as I could walk to the one uphill from me in SF.

yep. i loved living next to the EL in Chicago.

583 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:16:37pm

re: #563 windsagio

I don't see why you should treat it differently tho', its not like this is a symposium or a lecture at Yale or something.

If the discourse here ever does approach that quality, you're here to bring it back down to the text-messaging level, tho'.

:p

584 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:16:55pm

re: #580 b_sharp

Snow?

Ouch.

And here I am complaining about leaves yellowing already.

Well, it's not forecasted, but we can get it in August. We did last year.

585 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:17:05pm

To work...

586 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:17:13pm

re: #581 Walter L. Newton

On a serious note, that is my concern too. As a writer it does concern me to see the language devolve to pictographs again. I thought we were over that 45 thousand years ago.

And I realize it easier to use shortcuts, I suspect sometimes people wish I would, because I get rather sloppy sometimes with my spelling and grammar... but, that's besides the point. We are moving into a rather strange way to communicate.

We have this great new tool, and yet, some of the methods we are using are a throwback to eons ago.

Interesting.

Well said.

587 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:17:19pm

re: #572 JasonA

Wait, you think that there's no expression without the emoticons?

re: #574 McSpiff


No, really, its mostly a way for people to snipe off-subject. "Don't like where the argument is going? Complain about emoticons!" I guess you could argue that one shouldn't give 'em the out, but I'm stubborn that way.

588 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:17:57pm

re: #581 Walter L. Newton

Have you seen the film 'Idiocracy'? It addresses this point and a few others I think you'd enjoy. Its a comedy that has a few interesting ideas... overall I'd give it a 6 or 7/10, but I still highly recommend watching it.

589 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #502 Charles

I appreciate the apology. But I'm still wondering where you got the idea that I "begged" anyone at Think Progress to accept LGF.

If you weren't just trolling with that comment, I strongly suspect you were fooled by one of the brain-dead idiots who goes around to other sites and posts comments pretending to be me.

I used to read all the threads at Think Progress, it's the place to go for a rousing game of Whack-a-Troll ™ .

As you well know, many of the stalkers are/where trolls sent to derail and hijack threads At Think Progress. These same astro-turf spin machine stalker/trolls are helping spread the silly hoax that you begged to be accepted by progressives blogs and were rejected.

590 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:18:30pm

re: #587 windsagio

Wait, you think that there's no expression without the emoticons?

re: #574 McSpiff

No, really, its mostly a way for people to snipe off-subject. "Don't like where the argument is going? Complain about emoticons!" I guess you could argue that one shouldn't give 'em the out, but I'm stubborn that way.

No, silly, I think it's more challenging for one to accurately express themselves without them.

591 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:18:36pm

re: #581 Walter L. Newton

On a serious note, that is my concern too. As a writer it does concern me to see the language devolve to pictographs again. I thought we were over that 45 thousand years ago.

I'm just glad we're not doing that thing where you have paint in your mouth and hold your hand up to the wall and spit the paint at it to make a silhouette.

592 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:18:42pm

re: #553 JasonA

Sometimes I feel like such a mutant. I chat differently depending on the audience. I'll use tons of
:)
:D
:(
>:O with certain people.
With others, like here, I abstain. *shrug*

likewise

593 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:19:21pm

re: #581 Walter L. Newton

They're not subtractions, they're additions.

594 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:20:18pm

re: #590 JasonA

If it's a better, more efficient way of expressing the same thing, why NOT use them though?

595 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:20:31pm

re: #592 Aceofwhat?

likewise

We could very well be the mirror-universe versions of each other.

596 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:20:39pm

re: #587 windsagio

I don't like emoticons in the LGF setting because they always come across as somewhat ambiguous. Too easy to misinterpret. I'd hate to say I consider the other side of the asile 'hostile', but they're much less forgiving than friends on IM. I have no issue with you using them, but I don't think they communicate as much as you seem to think. The ambiguity forces most people to just treat them like noise I think. I do anyways.

597 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:21:20pm

re: #595 JasonA

We could very well be the mirror-universe versions of each other.

Which one has the goatee?

598 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:21:38pm

re: #575 b_sharp

Heeyyy Ace! Waz-up?

Hey dude. Spent 50 minutes on the ball machine in the midday florida heat, but to be honest, i mailed in the last 5. ball machines are grueling little devils.

took my sweaty ass over to my folks' house with the kids and let them push me into the pool...several hours of playing with the kids and hanging with my folks, and now i'm back home (both literally and figuratively).

sorry about your wife's ass. on the positive side, how many chances will i get to throw out a sentence like that without being crucified//

599 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:22:16pm

re: #596 McSpiff

If you treat them like noise there's no loss. I mostly use them from habit, and as a slight softening thing. After all we're just random people having random arguments on the internet.

Its the way alot of people use ///, really.

600 McSpiff  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:23:17pm

re: #599 windsagio

Makes sense to me. And you seem like a nice guy, so I don't mind wasting the extra few bytes of bandwidth on ya.

601 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:23:39pm

OK don't believe the 'show users' button, I am temporarily away.

(I always tell people because it annoys the heck out of me the way WUB just dissapears :p)

602 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:23:48pm

re: #590 JasonA

No, silly, I think it's more challenging for one to accurately express themselves without them.

exactly. OTOH, they're just shorthand, and this isn't the Royal Shakespeare Theater. sometimes i just feel like making sure that someone understands i'm joking or kidding or have no ill intent, without having to write precisely what would be necessary to convey that exact thing in addition to whatever point i'm droning on about...

603 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:24:47pm

re: #594 windsagio

If it's a better, more efficient way of expressing the same thing, why NOT use them though?

There's no shame in aiming high, you know. You wouldn't use emoticons on a resume, would you?

1. Upgraded the network for a 500 employee company. :D

604 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:25:08pm

re: #589 Reginald Perrin

I used to read all the threads at Think Progress, it's the place to go for a rousing game of Whack-a-Troll ™ .

As you well know, many of the stalkers are/where trolls sent to derail and hijack threads At Think Progress. These same astro-turf spin machine stalker/trolls are helping spread the silly hoax that you begged to be accepted by progressives blogs and were rejected.

Imagine how dull your life must be to make that a regular habit

I mean, goofing and trolling now and again, hey fun, have some laughs on the internet, whatever. but making it a regular thing, day in and day out, taking it seriously, trying to interfere with blog comments? GOD I'm glad I'm going to die knowing I spent my life doing more interesting stuff than that.

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:25:35pm

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

606 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:25:42pm

re: #567 elbruce

Like I said before, we can play tit-for-tat all day (dibs on the "tit" side, btw).

It's just... I'm not Jewish, but half my family is, including my daughter. And it just seems to me that if you're going to call your country "Israel" and make the flag a mogendavid over a tallit, then you should adhere to a much higer ethical standard than the other guy. Otherwise, it's kind of insulting to Judaism itself.

As an aside, this is ultimately a problem with any state religion; the country then gets compared to the morals and ethics supposedly upheld by the religion they proclaim, and in practice, everybody's going to fall short.

I recognize that many, many Muslim nations do the same thing with their flags and so forth. So maybe I'm engaging in a little liberal-style bigotry by expecting far more from Israel than from its neighbors in terms of adhering to the highest ideals of its touted religion. I'm willing to cop to that, to some extent. But I point my wagging finger at Israel not because I hate them or really think they're awful, but because I expect more from them than from the next guy.

If Israel can start sticking to the ethical standard upheld by Judaism, then I'd be willing to start doing the same thing to the Arab countries, and start quoting some good bits from the Qu'ran at them regarding their own bad behavior. I just want Israel to shape up first, and be the good guys that I expect them to be. Either that or change their name and their flag.

Nice. Israel is an insult to Judaism.

And until Israel "shapes up" and stops defending itself against annihilationist neighbors in ways that you approve, they should change their name and flag.

You expect more from them than you do from Arabs? That wouldn't be what's known as the bigotry of lowered expectations, would it?

I know where that kind of expectation comes from and leads to. "Good" Jews should meekly allow themselves to be slaughtered rather than fight back with nagans in die hend.

I won't even get into bit about "state religion".

I predict regular updings for you from Emoticon-Boy, and scrollovers or massive negatives from just about everybody else here. Somehow I don't think that'll bother you.

Carry on. Self-revelation is a thing of beauty with regard to abysmal ignorance like yours.

607 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:26:42pm

re: #595 JasonA

We could very well be the mirror-universe versions of each other.

all the best liberals say that/

but yeah. your obvious good taste on matters far and wide hasn't gone unnoticed...

608 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:26:45pm

re: #601 windsagio

OK don't believe the 'show users' button, I am temporarily away.

(I always tell people because it annoys the heck out of me the way WUB just dissapears :p)

Well, otherwise half my posts would be

WUB appears!
WUB disappears!
WUB appears!
WUB disappears!

it's just how I work, and notwithstanding the fact that I have a quadzillion things running on my desktop and Firefox is constantly crashing, you know this ;-)

609 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:26:54pm

re: #606 Cato the Elder


I predict regular updings for you from Emoticon-Boy,

Christ, now I'm going to picture him with a cape.

610 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:27:29pm

re: #601 windsagio

OK don't believe the 'show users' button, I am temporarily away.

(I always tell people because it annoys the heck out of me the way WUB just dissapears :p)

you know, i've never clicked on that button. not once. no reason...i just haven't.

611 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:28:35pm

re: #580 b_sharp

Snow?

Ouch.

And here I am complaining about leaves yellowing already.

it was 95 here at noon...and it was a wicked, wet 95.

612 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:29:30pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

so cool. thanks for the update-

613 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:30:01pm

re: #577 wrenchwench

I did upload a picture but I decided I didn't want to use it and couldn't figure out how to wipe it out completely. I will eventually upload a newer picture of myself. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I don't post anonymously. (Nor do I have anything against anyone who does.) It's a personal choice.

I post comments here and at ThinkProgress under my real name. (And, of course, at my own blog and at TheZoo, where I occasionally contribute things, like today.)

614 blueraven  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:30:27pm

re: #236 NJDhockeyfan

I found it's page on HuffPo yesterday.

So what? A lot of people comment there. Are you stalking now?

615 calochortus  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:31:02pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

It puts a smile on my face. I hope he continues to make progress.

616 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:31:20pm

re: #597 wrenchwench

Which one has the goatee?

sporting 3-day stubble at the moment. i don't know if that makes Jason clean-shaven or mustachioed/

617 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:33:12pm

re: #616 Aceofwhat?

sporting 3-day stubble at the moment. i don't know if that makes Jason clean-shaven or mustachioed/

Not a hair on my head. Eyebrows excluded, of course. It's really funny to me as I look at your pic.

618 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:35:22pm

re: #604 WindUpBird

Imagine how dull your life must be to make that a regular habit

I mean, goofing and trolling now and again, hey fun, have some laughs on the internet, whatever. but making it a regular thing, day in and day out, taking it seriously, trying to interfere with blog comments? GOD I'm glad I'm going to die knowing I spent my life doing more interesting stuff than that.

You have it backwards...I kicked troll ass through the use of facts from the reality based universe. And I exposed Eric Odom as the man behind the trolls. And got in trouble because I was partly responsible for Bill O'Reilly sending a stalker/producer out to ambush blogger Amanda Terkel.

I got tired of the trolls and the lack of moderation and moved to LGF.

Btw, I didn't do my reading in real time.

619 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:36:04pm

re: #567 elbruce

Sorry the Jews do not meet your incredibly high standard of morality which apparently is perfection.

But I guess the Arab armies do then? Deliberately targeting innocents with no notice or provocation, burying weapons caches in schoolyards, using children as human shields, staging news coverage and hiding facts. But that's all ok.

Got it.

620 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:36:18pm

re: #617 JasonA

Not a hair on my head. Eyebrows excluded, of course. It's really funny to me as I look at your pic.

dan halen = genius

621 Conservative Moonbat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:36:31pm

re: #589 Reginald Perrin

I used to read all the threads at Think Progress, it's the place to go for a rousing game of Whack-a-Troll ™ .

As you well know, many of the stalkers are/where trolls sent to derail and hijack threads At Think Progress. These same astro-turf spin machine stalker/trolls are helping spread the silly hoax that you begged to be accepted by progressives blogs and were rejected.

I go there for Matt Ygleslas and that's it.

622 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:37:02pm

re: #598 Aceofwhat?

Hey dude. Spent 50 minutes on the ball machine in the midday florida heat, but to be honest, i mailed in the last 5. ball machines are grueling little devils.

took my sweaty ass over to my folks' house with the kids and let them push me into the pool...several hours of playing with the kids and hanging with my folks, and now i'm back home (both literally and figuratively).

sorry about your wife's ass. on the positive side, how many chances will i get to throw out a sentence like that without being crucified//

I never could hit, nor run, but I could catch and throw.

Back when I was 11 I joined the local little league team and asked to be a pitcher. They told me they had enough pitchers and stuck me in right field. About midway through the third game of the season I'd had had enough of fielding 5 or 6 balls a day, so I purposely threw the ball over the backstop from near the fence.

The next practice they had me pitching. Eventually there was only one of our 3 catchers that would sit behind the plate when I pitched.

Something about sore hands and the occasional wild pitch.

623 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #606 Cato the Elder

You expect more from them than you do from Arabs? That wouldn't be what's known as the bigotry of lowered expectations, would it?

I'm pretty sure I admitted to that quite explicitly. But it's a lot better than other kinds of bigotry.

As long as the Arab nations are pointing at Israel and saying "we're only being jerks because they're being jerks" and Israel is pointing at them saying "we're only being jerks because they're being jerks," ask yourself which side you think is more likely to have the potential be able to step up and break that stalemate? Picking either one is going to involve some degree and form of prejudice. I'm fairly comfortable with saying that I think Israel has the potential to be better.

.

re: #606 Cato the Elder

"Good" Jews should meekly allow themselves to be slaughtered rather than fight back with nagans in die hend.

Wow, you're really going to town on that poor false-choice strawman. Get 'im!

624 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:39:08pm

re: #603 JasonA

I once experienced a job application in which I was expected to provide examples of Unix commands to accomplish tasks described in the application.

And I was expected to write it out using a pen.

My penmanship has always been atrocious, and due to the fact that I've spent the last whole lotsa years typing and not doing much handwriting, you can probably imagine that

rsync -avvh -e ssh --link-dest=/media/backup/$HOSTNAME/$PREVDATE '--exclude=[ps][ry][os]' --exclude=/media/backup/$HOSTNAME /media/backup/$HOSTNAME/$DATE/

looks like a deranged Charlie Manson ransom note when written out longhand. I didn't get the job, which is probably a good thing because the guy who owned the business ended up going to jail for a DWI manslaughter.

625 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:39:13pm

re: #603 JasonA

There's no shame in aiming high, you know. You wouldn't use emoticons on a resume, would you?

1. Upgraded the network for a 500 employee company. :D

We're applying for jobs when we post here?

Be back in a minute, I'll go put a tie on. ;->

626 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:40:07pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

Cool beans, man.

627 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:40:51pm

re: #567 elbruce

The bit about Israel needing to live up to the best about Judaism makes as much sense as Newt Gingrich saying that when Saudi Arabia builds churches, we'll allow a mosque to be built.

It's not about what's morally right. It's about what's actually going on. If you want things to improve for the Palestinian people, that really is in the hands of the Arab states to a far greater degree than it is in the hands of Israel.

628 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:41:02pm

re: #538 windsagio

No can do!

I don't have a particular problem with emoticons.
As long as you refrain from evah calling me an a** again.
/

629 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:41:29pm

re: #611 Aceofwhat?

it was 95 here at noon...and it was a wicked, wet 95.

The tabloids want to know, how wicked and how wet?

630 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:41:33pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

Oh, great news FBV.

631 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:41:57pm

re: re: #618 Reginald Perrin

You have it backwards...I kicked troll ass through the use of facts from the reality based universe. And I exposed Eric Odom as the man behind the trolls. And got in trouble because I was partly responsible for Bill O'Reilly sending a stalker/producer out to ambush blogger Amanda Terkel.

I got tired of the trolls and the lack of moderation and moved to LGF.

Btw, I didn't do my reading in real time.

Didn't Odom steer some now found on the Blog of the Banned?

632 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:44:14pm

re: #623 elbruce

So who is being the jerks/obstructionists now?

Palestinian factions slam PA leadership

The Palestinian Authority’s decision to negotiate directly with Israel drew strong condemnation over the weekend from most of the Palestinian factions, whose leaders and spokesmen accused PA President Mahmoud Abbas of “surrendering” to American and Israeli pressure.

633 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:44:59pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

Way cool!

634 Gitarzan  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:46:21pm

re: #622 b_sharp

I never could hit, nor run, but I could catch and throw.

Back when I was 11 I joined the local little league team and asked to be a pitcher. They told me they had enough pitchers and stuck me in right field. About midway through the third game of the season I'd had had enough of fielding 5 or 6 balls a day, so I purposely threw the ball over the backstop from near the fence.

The next practice they had me pitching. Eventually there was only one of our 3 catchers that would sit behind the plate when I pitched.

Something about sore hands and the occasional wild pitch.

Wild Thing, is that you? ;)

635 Ojoe  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:46:29pm

OT:

Watch out in the next week or so, everything might be a bit different:


Israel calls Iran reactor fueling "totally unacceptable."

636 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:47:36pm

The video is priceless. I think the next time a discussion arises on the mailing list I am on, I'll share this video as a reminder of the outright ignorance and prejudice that these tea party activists espouse.

Praise video recorders, the Internet, and people willing to speak their silly minds on camera.

637 Conservative Moonbat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:47:43pm

re: #627 Obdicut

The bit about Israel needing to live up to the best about Judaism makes as much sense as Newt Gingrich saying that when Saudi Arabia builds churches, we'll allow a mosque to be built.

It's not about what's morally right. It's about what's actually going on. If you want things to improve for the Palestinian people, that really is in the hands of the Arab states to a far greater degree than it is in the hands of Israel.

And even if you do want to talk about holding either or both sides to particular moral standards, the rules of Judaism seem awfully arbitrary. I'd think something that could be applied to both sides would produce better results and expecting Palestinians to follow the moral rules of Judaism is clearly ludicrous.

638 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:48:16pm

re: #627 Obdicut

The bit about Israel needing to live up to the best about Judaism makes as much sense as Newt Gingrich saying that when Saudi Arabia builds churches, we'll allow a mosque to be built.

It's not about what's morally right. It's about what's actually going on. If you want things to improve for the Palestinian people, that really is in the hands of the Arab states to a far greater degree than it is in the hands of Israel.

The Israeli army like the American army is a moral army. There is such a thing as morality in war, even if the whole purpose is designed to capture and kill. There are rules of war which both Israelis and Americans (and I'll throw most of Europe in there, too) strive for. That they don't get it right 100% of the time (Abu Gahraib comes to mind) I don't think makes them immoral.

639 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:48:47pm

re: #634 talon_262

Wild Thing, is that you? ;)

Yup. Even with my glasses.

I loved that movie.

640 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:49:34pm

re: #631 Dark_Falcon

Didn't Odom steer some now found on the Blog of the Banned?

Odom created a cottage industry of stalker/watch blogs.
You are correct, Odom spawned the evil that resides at that fetid cesspool.

641 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:50:01pm

re: #638 marjoriemoon

The Israeli army like the American army is a moral army. There is such a thing as morality in war, even if the whole purpose is designed to capture and kill. There are rules of war which both Israelis and Americans (and I'll throw most of Europe in there, too) strive for. That they don't get it right 100% of the time (Abu Gahraib comes to mind) I don't think makes them immoral.

Agreed. Israel tries very hard to keep the IDF moral and succeeds the great majority of the time.

642 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:52:10pm

re: #622 b_sharp

I never could hit, nor run, but I could catch and throw.

Back when I was 11 I joined the local little league team and asked to be a pitcher. They told me they had enough pitchers and stuck me in right field. About midway through the third game of the season I'd had had enough of fielding 5 or 6 balls a day, so I purposely threw the ball over the backstop from near the fence.

The next practice they had me pitching. Eventually there was only one of our 3 catchers that would sit behind the plate when I pitched.

Something about sore hands and the occasional wild pitch.

heh. i love the backstop part...coach won't listen, huh? here, coach, go fetch THIS ball...

My problem is, i want to hit the ball every time...not because i'm great, but because i hate waiting for my turn. so whenever i play softball, baseball, whiffleball, etc...i get twitchy. I understand that it's not cool for me to continuously be the DH, but i don't like it. So tennis fits me perfectly...i get to hit the ball every time (or often enough, in doubles) and make thousands of minor adjustments per match. Keeps the mind and the body busy...

643 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:52:41pm

re: #567 elbruce

As an aside, this is ultimately a problem with any state religion; the country then gets compared to the morals and ethics supposedly upheld by the religion they proclaim, and in practice, everybody's going to fall short.

So which party was more guilty of failing to meet expectations in the Falklands War? Argentina (with Roman Catholicism as its official state religion) or England (with Anglican Protestantism as the official state religion)?

Then there is every Arab state except Syria and Lebanon that has a version of Islam as the official state religion. When Israel fails to exceed the low expectations you have for those Arab states, does that mean Judaism is inferior to Islam at those times or just the same? When Israel satisfies these higher expectations, does that then mean that Judaism is superior to Islam?

644 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:52:53pm

re: #641 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Israel tries very hard to keep the IDF moral and succeeds the great majority of the time.

Well I think so. I'm talking about dropping leaflets before they attack. We gave the Iraqis warning also. Not deliberately targeting innocents. Only when those innocents are, say, living in an apartment building with a weapons cache buried beneath it. Or smuggling tunnels and even then, they tell the people to leave. Compare to haplessly launching rockets at homes, blowing up pizza parlors and buses (which seems to have stopped) and the like.

645 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:54:10pm

re: #623 elbruce

oh, so EVERYONE is being a jerk. wait, Israel wants to wipe its neighbors off the map?

false equivalence is false

646 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:54:39pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dude(ette)s... The boyfriend (who we thought was going to die two weeks ago)? Moved his left foot today. Ever so slightly, but moved it ten times.

Cool, huh?

That's GREAT news!
I hope he continues in a positive direction!

647 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:55:08pm

re: #627 Obdicut

The bit about Israel needing to live up to the best about Judaism makes as much sense as Newt Gingrich saying that when Saudi Arabia builds churches, we'll allow a mosque to be built.

Except the opposite of what you said. In that regard, we do and should hold ourself to a higher standard than Saudi Arabia does. Newt is suggesting that we don't.

re: #627 Obdicut

If you want things to improve for the Palestinian people, that really is in the hands of the Arab states to a far greater degree than it is in the hands of Israel.

They certainly have shown an ability and willingness to monkey-wrench anything that Israel and the Palestinians manage to agree to. It occurs to me - there's probably not even any point in holding peace talks between only those two groups unless you also bring in the rest of their neighbors to the negotiating table.

648 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:57:16pm

re: #637 Conservative Moonbat

I'd think something that could be applied to both sides would produce better results

Secular democracy works. But that never seems to be on the table. Until it is, there's always going to be a greater-than-zero amount of problems going on there.

649 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:58:59pm

re: #648 elbruce

Secular democracy works. But that never seems to be on the table. Until it is, there's always going to be a greater-than-zero amount of problems going on there.

ah. so, Israel should be less Jewish in order to stem the tide of neighbors who hate them because they're Jewish. gotcha.

650 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:59:41pm

re: #647 elbruce

It occurs to me - there's probably not even any point in holding peace talks between only those two groups unless you also bring in the rest of their neighbors to the negotiating table.

What's going to motivate the neighbors to show up and cooperate?

651 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:00:23pm

re: #644 marjoriemoon

Well I think so. I'm talking about dropping leaflets before they attack. We gave the Iraqis warning also. Not deliberately targeting innocents. Only when those innocents are, say, living in an apartment building with a weapons cache buried beneath it. Or smuggling tunnels and even then, they tell the people to leave. Compare to haplessly launching rockets at homes, blowing up pizza parlors and buses (which seems to have stopped) and the like.

Indeed. Another thing elbruce conveniently forgets are the thousands of tons of food and medical supplies trucked into Gaza after Operation Cast Lead.

See: Humanitarian Aid despite Hamas attacks

Large quantities of essential food items like baby formula, wheat, meat, dairy products and other perishables are transferred daily and weekly to Gaza. Fertilizers that cannot be used to make explosives are shipped into the Strip regularly, as are potato seeds, eggs for reproduction, bees, and equipment for the flower industry.

In 2009 alone, more than 738,000 tons of food and supplies entered Gaza. Pictures in local newspapers show local markets aplenty with fruit, vegetables, cheese, spices, bread and meat to feed 1.4 million Gazans.

In the first quarter of 2010 (January-March), 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred in 3,676 trucks to the Strip: 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; 553 tons of milk powder and baby food.

In a typical week the IDF coordinates the transfer of hundreds of trucks containing about 15,000 tons of supplies. During the week of May 18, 2010 there were more than 100 truckloads of animal food, 65 trucks of fruit and vegetables; 22 truckloads of sugar, some 27 truckloads of meat, poultry and fish; and 40 trucks of dairy products. At holiday times, Israel increases transfers. During the Muslim holy days of Ramadhan and Eid al-Adha, Israel shipped some 11,000 heads of cattle into the Strip.


Israel is behaving in a very moral fashion DESPITE ROCKET ATTACKS.

Hey elbruce, knock it off with the double standard already. It's old.

652 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:01:15pm

re: #650 wrenchwench

What's going to motivate the neighbors to show up and cooperate?

same thing that motivates them to introduce legion UN resolutions condemning Israel...if enough of them say something stupid and false over and over and over, people actually think they may have a point.

653 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:01:41pm

re: #623 elbruce

I'm going to leave it to better people than I am to school your ass about Israel. People like SanFranciscoZionist (SFZ) and LudwigVanQuixote (LVQ), whose acquaintance I have no doubt you'll be making here shortly.

Just allow me to say for now that the stench of supercilious self-righteousness coming off a self-described "liberal" is seven times worse than the conservative version. One rather expects it of conservatives, in fact.

I don't know why it should be different for liberals, but I sort of hoped it might.

Then I met you.

654 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:01:59pm

re: #647 elbruce

Except the opposite of what you said. In that regard, we do and should hold ourself to a higher standard than Saudi Arabia does. Newt is suggesting that we don't.

And you're suggesting that you won't hold the Arab states to any sort of moral standard until Israel matches one that you've determined. Which is just as stupid.

I didn't say it was the same thing, I said it made as much sense.


It occurs to me - there's probably not even any point in holding peace talks between only those two groups unless you also bring in the rest of their neighbors to the negotiating table.

Yep. But that would require the Arab states give up their politically expedient strawman of Israel as the evil bogeyman.

Even without coming to the table, the Arab states could simply give citizenship to the Palestinian refugees within their borders. They do not do so because they have no particular sympathy for the Palestinians and want to keep the 'right of return' alive and viable as political leverage against Israel.

Reforming the Arab states, of course, is a daunting task. But it's what has to happen for any progress to be made. Israel could act in a morally perfect fashion, and not actually achieve lasting benefit for the Palestinians. In fact, if Israel simply ceased to exist, it wouldn't be of advantage to the Palestinians-- they'd become the subjects of one or another corrupt Arab state, and we can see from their current treatment by those states how they'd fare.

655 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:03:15pm

re: #651 eclectic infidel

More from same link:

Maintaining medical aid for all in need

The medical corridor

No Palestinian is denied medical care in Israel. However, if the Hamas regime does not grant permits for medical care, the Israeli government can do nothing to help the patient. Israel will facilitate all cases of medical treatments from Gaza, unless the patient is a known perpetrator of terror.

Israel maintains a corridor for the transfer of medical patients out of Gaza, and about 200 medical staff members go through the crossings every month. Israel also helps coordinate the transfer of Jordanian doctors into Gaza.

In 2009 alone, 10,544 patients and their companions left the Gaza Strip for medical treatment in Israel. Moreover, there were 382 emergency evacuations from Gaza for medical purposes.

The Hadassah Medical Organization in Jerusalem donates $3 million in aid annually to treat Palestinians in Israel. Following fears of a swine flu outbreak, three Israeli hospitals were assigned to treat cases in the Gaza Strip and 44,500 immunizations were transferred to the Strip.

Since 2005, Palestinians exploited medical care arrangements more than 20 times to carry out terror attacks.

Medical equipment

In 2009, some 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicine were brought in.

In the first quarter of 2010, Israel shipped 152 trucks of medical supplies and equipment into Gaza. In a typical week (in May 2010), some 37 truckloads of hygiene products were shipped to Gaza through the land crossings. In addition, a new CAT scan machine was recently shipped to Gaza.

In 2009, Israel coordinated the transfer of medical supplies for the disabled including wheelchairs, crutches and first aid kits. Other equipment shipped to Gaza include heart-monitors, baby feeding tubes, dental equipment, medical books, ambulance emergency equipment, artificial limbs and infant sleeping bags.


Does Hamas compensate Israel when it launches rockets at Sderot?

656 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:04:51pm

re: #654 Obdicut

And you're suggesting that you won't hold the Arab states to any sort of moral standard until Israel matches one that you've determined. Which is just as stupid.

I didn't say it was the same thing, I said it made as much sense.

Yep. But that would require the Arab states give up their politically expedient strawman of Israel as the evil bogeyman.

Even without coming to the table, the Arab states could simply give citizenship to the Palestinian refugees within their borders. They do not do so because they have no particular sympathy for the Palestinians and want to keep the 'right of return' alive and viable as political leverage against Israel.

Reforming the Arab states, of course, is a daunting task. But it's what has to happen for any progress to be made. Israel could act in a morally perfect fashion, and not actually achieve lasting benefit for the Palestinians. In fact, if Israel simply ceased to exist, it wouldn't be of advantage to the Palestinians-- they'd become the subjects of one or another corrupt Arab state, and we can see from their current treatment by those states how they'd fare.

Just so. Movement from Israel has long since passed the pint of diminishing returns. For there to be any breakthroughs now, the Arabs must change their way of thinking. Like Cato, I don't expect to live to see that happen.

657 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:05:19pm

re: #632 Bubblehead II

So who is being the jerks/obstructionists now?

Palestinian factions slam PA leadership

The Palestinian Authority’s decision to negotiate directly with Israel drew strong condemnation over the weekend from most of the Palestinian factions, whose leaders and spokesmen accused PA President Mahmoud Abbas of “surrendering” to American and Israeli pressure.

*crickets*

658 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:07:01pm

Okay lizards. I gotta run, but I just wanted to educate elbruce a little bit..with facts. I'm visiting my folks up north in Sonoma County and it's a treat for me to cook with my dad. Be well.

659 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:09:05pm

re: #648 elbruce

Secular democracy works. But that never seems to be on the table. Until it is, there's always going to be a greater-than-zero amount of problems going on there.

re: #649 Aceofwhat?

ah. so, Israel should be less Jewish in order to stem the tide of neighbors who hate them because they're Jewish. gotcha.

Uh, no. But there many very good and practical reasons for separation of church and state, including preventing countries from going to war over religious differences. That would only work if everybody did it, though. I'm not pulling a "just Israel" on that. But like I said, nobody's ever going to go for that.

660 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:09:29pm

Hi all. What have I missed over the last 3 months or so? Sorry to be away so long. Busy, busy.

661 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:09:36pm

re: #656 Dark_Falcon

Just so. Movement from Israel has long since passed the pint of diminishing returns. For there to be any breakthroughs now, the Arabs must change their way of thinking. Like Cato, I don't expect to live to see that happen.

I don't either.
But I do keep hoping.

662 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:10:13pm

re: #660 Escaped Hillbilly

Hi all. What have I missed over the last 3 months or so? Sorry to be away so long. Busy, busy.

You couldn't escape us forever, you know...

663 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:11:09pm

re: #647 elbruce

They certainly have shown an ability and willingness to monkey-wrench anything that Israel and the Palestinians manage to agree to. It occurs to me - there's probably not even any point in holding peace talks between only those two groups unless you also bring in the rest of their neighbors to the negotiating table.

That has been tried, wherein Israel gets scolded by each Arabist representative who find themselves competing for whom can demonstrate the greatest antipathy for Israel.

It makes for great TV to blast over your state controlled airwaves to your ignorant masses whom you hope will vent their frustration and anger at "the other" rather than at the corrupt scumbags who rule them. As an added bonus, "the other" is "the Jew", which lets you (the quasi-secular quasi-elected dictator) co-opt the fervor that the Islamists Imams in your mosques have been trying to foment so as to get the masses to rise up and revolt against you and your vile corruption in preference for a "Revolutionary" Islamic state (which simply becomes a high inflation kleptocracy like Iran).

Not to invoke a dreaded neo-con concept proffered by dreaded, evil neo-cons, but the only way to undermine that situations is to force rising expectations among the masses - expectations that neither the dictator nor the Imam can credibly address.

664 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:13:41pm

re: #660 Escaped Hillbilly

Hi all. What have I missed over the last 3 months or so?

Does anyone else find it interesting that adequately answering this question would actually take longer than 3 months?

665 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:13:51pm

re: #659 elbruce

re: #649 Aceofwhat?

Uh, no. But there many very good and practical reasons for separation of church and state, including preventing countries from going to war over religious differences. That would only work if everybody did it, though. I'm not pulling a "just Israel" on that. But like I said, nobody's ever going to go for that.

So when did Israel "initiate war for religious reasons"? (i altered your "go to", so that you don't try to play off a conflict joined by Israel in her defense as 'going to war')

666 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:14:05pm

re: #664 negativ

Does anyone else find it interesting that adequately answering this question would actually take longer than 3 months?

Heh.
It's why I didn't even try to address it.

667 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:14:47pm

re: #664 negativ

Does anyone else find it interesting that adequately answering this question would actually take longer than 3 months?

Just say "Mega-Mosque."

668 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:15:12pm

re: #666 reine.de.tout

It's all on these two microdots:

669 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:15:12pm

re: #666 reine.de.tout

Heh.
It's why I didn't even try to address it.

That's what archives are for.

670 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:15:15pm

re: #664 negativ

Does anyone else find it interesting that adequately answering this question would actually take longer than 3 months?

heh, yes, it made me realize that it would take nearly as long just to recap this one thread/

671 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:15:18pm

re: #664 negativ
Dang, he figerred it out. Just my way of saying hay.

672 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:16:19pm

re: #657 Bubblehead II

The Palestinian Authority’s decision to negotiate directly with Israel drew strong condemnation over the weekend from most of the Palestinian factions, whose leaders and spokesmen accused PA President Mahmoud Abbas of “surrendering” to American and Israeli pressure.

*crickets*

The other thing people don't understand is the division between Hamas and the P.A. run by Abbas. Folks like to call them the same, but they are not. And people not familiar with what's going on just lump them together. Yes, there is anti-Semitism and extremism on both sides. Fatah was initially Arafat's army. Hamas rejected them and formed their own. Arafat played the PR game with the world and pumped out all of this propaganda we now hear from westerners. That was part and parcel of his war. Hamas didn't think Fatah was violent enough so they broke off.

That little civil war in 2006? between the two factions. The idea was to kill Hamas leadership so at least Abbas could have a cohesive government. But it didn't work. And as lawhawk often says, Abbas doesn't have the charisma or respect of his predecessor, but he is all Israel has by way of negotiating. So they keep at it.

I have a question about whether Hamas, essentially Gaza, is included in all these negotiations. I would think not, but I don't know.

673 Conservative Moonbat  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:17:56pm

re: #659 elbruce

You know, when I signed up here I decided I wasn't going to get involved in any debates on the Israel/Palestine issue because many here have such strong opinions on the issue and my own opinions on the issue are pretty poorly formed. I figured it was a minefield I'd rather not walk into. That was almost a year ago and things have chilled out a lot since then but you should keep in mind that it's an issue that can still get your ass flamed off if you're not careful.

674 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:18:10pm

re: #663 karmic_inquisitor

That has been tried, wherein Israel gets scolded by each Arabist representative who find themselves competing for whom can demonstrate the greatest antipathy for Israel.

It makes for great TV to blast over your state controlled airwaves to your ignorant masses whom you hope will vent their frustration and anger at "the other" rather than at the corrupt scumbags who rule them. As an added bonus, "the other" is "the Jew", which lets you (the quasi-secular quasi-elected dictator) co-opt the fervor that the Islamists Imams in your mosques have been trying to foment so as to get the masses to rise up and revolt against you and your vile corruption in preference for a "Revolutionary" Islamic state (which simply becomes a high inflation kleptocracy like Iran).

Not to invoke a dreaded neo-con concept proffered by dreaded, evil neo-cons, but the only way to undermine that situations is to force rising expectations among the masses - expectations that neither the dictator nor the Imam can credibly address.

Good points. The culture over there does need to change, and getting people to look for a better way with less coercion is a good first step.

675 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:18:44pm

re: #663 karmic_inquisitor

That has been tried, wherein Israel gets scolded by each Arabist representative who find themselves competing for whom can demonstrate the greatest antipathy for Israel.

It makes for great TV to blast over your state controlled airwaves to your ignorant masses whom you hope will vent their frustration and anger at "the other" rather than at the corrupt scumbags who rule them. As an added bonus, "the other" is "the Jew", which lets you (the quasi-secular quasi-elected dictator) co-opt the fervor that the Islamists Imams in your mosques have been trying to foment so as to get the masses to rise up and revolt against you and your vile corruption in preference for a "Revolutionary" Islamic state (which simply becomes a high inflation kleptocracy like Iran).

Such a thing would have to be kept away from TV cameras. I don't have much hope for that working either, but doing it without the additional neighbors seems pointless when they can undercut anything that gets agreed to anyway.

676 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:19:02pm

re: #648 elbruce

Secular democracy works. But that never seems to be on the table. Until it is, there's always going to be a greater-than-zero amount of problems going on there.

Israel actually is a secular democracy. The thing many people (including you, I suspect) object to is the fact that it's also the only country in the world with a majority Jewish population.

From Wiki:

Religion in Israel is a central feature of the country and plays a major role in shaping Israeli culture and lifestyle, and Israel is the only country in the world where a majority of citizens are Jewish. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, the population in 2008 was 75.4% Jewish, 20.6% Arab, and 4% minority groups.[1] The religious affiliation of the Israeli population as of 2005 was 76.2% Jewish, 16.1% Muslim, 2.1% Christian, and 1.6% Druze, with the remaining 4.0% not classified by religion.[2]

Israel has no entrenched constitution, but freedom of religion is anchored in law. While the Basic Laws of Israel that serve in place of a constitution define the country as a "Jewish state," these Basic Laws, coupled with Knesset statutes, decisions of the Supreme Court of Israel, and various elements of the common law current in Israel, also protect free practice of religion in the country. [3] [4] Legal accommodation of the non-Jewish communities follows the pattern and practice of the Ottoman and British administrations with some important modifications. Israeli law officially recognizes five religions, all belonging to the Abrahamic family of religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism and the Bahá'í Faith. Furthermore, the law formally recognizes ten separate sects of Christianity: the Roman, Armenian, Maronite, Syriac, and Chaldean Catholic Churches; the the Eastern Orthodox Greek Orthodox Church; the Oriental Orthodox Syriac Orthodox Church; the Armenian Apostolic Church; and the Anglican Evangelical Episcopal Church.[5]

Israel is a "Jewish state" and Judaism is the "state religion" in approximately the same way the Church of England dominates the UK. Except that there are proportionally more Muslims in Israel than in Britain.

Facts. They're important.

677 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:19:56pm

on a totally OT subject, WUB, "Partner X" and I just got tickets for the November Gorillaz show in Seattle. So hyped up, I had to tell somebody!!

678 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:21:37pm

re: #660 Escaped Hillbilly

Hi all. What have I missed over the last 3 months or so? Sorry to be away so long. Busy, busy.

Oh, not much...

679 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:23:23pm

re: #677 windsagio

on a totally OT subject, WUB, "Partner X" and I just got tickets for the November Gorillaz show in Seattle. So hyped up, I had to tell somebody!!

You might try telling people who would actually be excited over that.

680 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:23:24pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

Israel is a "Jewish state" and Judaism is the "state religion" in approximately the same way the Church of England dominates the UK. Except that there are proportionally more Muslims in Israel than in Britain.

Calling your country "Israel" is like calling your country "Islam," or "Christs' Kingdom." Then there's the flag, which is a tallit with a Star of David over it. Hardly subtle.

The real problem with considering real separation of church and state where Israel is concerned is that it would void Right of Return, which is kind of the main reason behind having the country in the first place.

681 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:25:04pm

"The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" is on the tele...

Never seen it before.

682 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:26:08pm

re: #679 JasonA

You never know >>

683 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:26:15pm

re: #680 elbruce

Calling your country "Israel" is like calling your country "Islam," or "Christs' Kingdom." Then there's the flag, which is a tallit with a Star of David over it. Hardly subtle.

The real problem with considering real separation of church and state where Israel is concerned is that it would void Right of Return, which is kind of the main reason behind having the country in the first place.

Oh, I'm sorry, they should have called it "Secularland"? Or maybe "Six Arab Flags Over Jerusalem"?

Fuck you in the nose with a rubber hose.

684 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:26:48pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

Israel actually is a secular democracy. The thing many people (including you, I suspect) object to is the fact that it's also the only country in the world with a majority Jewish population.

From Wiki:

Israel is a "Jewish state" and Judaism is the "state religion" in approximately the same way the Church of England dominates the UK. Except that there are proportionally more Muslims in Israel than in Britain.

Facts. They're important.

Nevermind the part where homie is having a little difficulty explaining just how often Israel has gone on an unprovoked rampage in the name of Judaism. I smell a touch of "religunz iz teh source of all badnezz" at play...

685 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:27:19pm

re: #677 windsagio

Happy for you. Have fun.
I just got a new job and I'm on leave! Don't care if JasonA cares. Happy happy joy joy.

686 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:27:26pm

re: #680 elbruce

You might want to think about "the first rule of holes" here.
It's a great place to learn.
The archives are amazing...

687 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:28:01pm

re: #683 Cato the Elder

Oh, I'm sorry, they should have called it "Secularland"? Or maybe "Six Arab Flags Over Jerusalem"?

Fuck you in the nose with a rubber hose.

They should have let Britain make up a name for them like a good little middle-eastern country.

688 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:28:31pm

re: #681 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" is on the tele...

Never seen it before.

Great film. Watched Stagecoach earlier myself. Makes a person remember that Wayne could be much more than a caricature.

689 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:29:00pm

re: #682 windsagio

You never know >>

well, its not as if there's actually been LGF posts showcasing Gorillaz tunes!

oh wait

690 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:29:32pm

re: #684 Aceofwhat?

Nevermind the part where homie is having a little difficulty explaining just how often Israel has gone on an unprovoked rampage in the name of Judaism. I smell a touch of "religunz iz teh source of all badnezz" at play...

Quite Concur.

691 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:30:01pm

re: #681 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" is on the tele...

Never seen it before.

You just missed Federer destroying Baghdatis on his way to the finals in Cincy. Federer is everything that silk wants to be but isn't...

692 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:30:32pm

re: #672 marjoriemoon

Exactly. The P.A. has so far been the only one who has shown any interest in negotiations. The rest, well they just don't care. But in the end, it's all moot. All (Aarab/Palestinian) parties ignored Oslo as well as other accords, why the heck should anyone believe they would honor any new agreement?

I believe there is an old saying. By your fruits, you shall be known. So far the Palestinians and the Mid-East in general have shown us (the world) just exactly how well they abide by their word.

BTW Elbruce, you still haven't answered my question.

693 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:30:36pm

re: #689 WindUpBird

well, its not as if there's actually been LGF posts showcasing Gorillaz tunes!

oh wait

What do they do? Wear gorilla suits on stage?

/Sorry. I just don't know much about them.

694 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:30:41pm

re: #691 Aceofwhat?

You just missed Federer destroying Baghdatis on his way to the finals in Cincy. Federer is everything that silk wants to be but isn't...

wow, I just checked in and I saw the sports quote of the year

695 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:31:16pm

re: #682 windsagio

this'll make you happy: NPR article on Americans rethinking home ownership

696 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:31:20pm

re: #684 Aceofwhat?

Nevermind the part where homie is having a little difficulty explaining just how often Israel has gone on an unprovoked rampage in the name of Judaism. I smell a touch of "religunz iz teh source of all badnezz" at play...

He does perseverate on about the name and the flag, doesn't he?

I smell something else as well...left-liberal victim-hatred.

697 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:31:44pm

re: #680 elbruce

Calling your country "Israel" is like calling your country "Islam," or "Christs' Kingdom." Then there's the flag, which is a tallit with a Star of David over it. Hardly subtle.

. ..

What?

Unlike, of course, the flags of Arab nations, many of which include the color green, a symbol of Islam, and/or images of crescent & star.

Why should the Israeli flag be held to a different standard?

698 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:31:47pm

re: #660 Escaped Hillbilly

Hi all. What have I missed over the last 3 months or so? Sorry to be away so long. Busy, busy.

Sarah Palin proclaimed that her favorite bands were Bauhaus and Type O Negative, and now she's a major figure in the Goth / leather BDSM scene.

Following Sarah's brave lead, Hillary Clinton expressed her love for The Cure, citing "Seventeen Seconds" and "Pornography" as her favorite albums.

Barack Obama surprised everyone by declaring that he preferred to listen to King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Mahavishnu Orchestra, and told the audience that M.C. 900 Foot Jesus was an absolute genius that far too few people know about.

John Boehner came out as gay and performed a one-man interpretive dance tribute to Madonna.

John McCain suddenly extolled the virtues of Dead Kennedys, rightly calling DK frontman Jello Biafra the "most talented lyricist in the history of rock music."

In addition, Paul Green received accolades for his work with children.

699 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:32:03pm

re: #694 cliffster

wow, I just checked in and I saw the sports quote of the year

wait until CFB starts...i'm just getting warmed up/

700 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:32:22pm

re: #680 elbruce

Calling your country "Israel" is like calling your country "Islam," or "Christs' Kingdom." Then there's the flag, which is a tallit with a Star of David over it. Hardly subtle.

The real problem with considering real separation of church and state where Israel is concerned is that it would void Right of Return, which is kind of the main reason behind having the country in the first place.

Israel has been Israel for 1000s of years.

701 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:32:24pm

re: #697 reine.de.tout

What?

Unlike, of course, the flags of Arab nations, many of which include the color green, a symbol of Islam, and/or images of crescent & star.

Why should the Israeli flag be held to a different standard?

Because they're not Arabs.

702 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:32:31pm

re: #676 Cato the Elder

No, Cato, Israel isn't a secular democracy. There are certain aspects of the law that are handled in a religious fashion. For example, secular Jews generally get married by leaving the country, getting married elsewhere, because of this.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Israel has large parts of it that are a secular democracy, but it's not nearly as clear-cut as here in the US.

703 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:33:39pm

re: #695 WindUpBird

this'll make you happy: NPR article on Americans rethinking home ownership

It does indeed! The cult of home-ownership is one of the blights on the US economy.

704 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:34:25pm

re: #683 Cato the Elder

Oh, I'm sorry, they should have called it "Secularland"? Or maybe "Six Arab Flags Over Jerusalem"?

All I'm saying is separation of church and state is better than not. Not just here, but everywhere. It's a good principle. I'm sure they won't go for it, and I don't really expect them to. All I initially said was that any country that doesn't have it is going to have some problems, which they can minimize but probably never eradicate. Including, but not restricted to, Israel.

re: #683 Cato the Elder

Fuck you in the nose with a rubber hose.

Kinky... pass, thanks. But I am flattered.

.

re: #684 Aceofwhat?

Nevermind the part where homie is having a little difficulty explaining just how often Israel has gone on an unprovoked rampage in the name of Judaism.

I would have a hell of a hard time explaining something I never said, yeah.

.

re: #684 Aceofwhat?

I smell a touch of "religunz iz teh source of all badnezz" at play...

That isn't a position I support at all. Religion is great for lots of people. Like any belief system (any religion plus capitalism, communism, mercantilism, etc) it can and historically has been abused.

All I'm saying here is that separation of church and state is a good idea for any nation. You seem to oppose that rather limited and reasonable position.

705 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:34:38pm

re: #702 Obdicut

Er, I should make it clear that these secular Jews then come back to Israel after leaving to get married.

706 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:34:43pm

re: #693 Dark_Falcon

What do they do? Wear gorilla suits on stage?

/Sorry. I just don't know much about them.

Well, if you recognize any of these names, you may like them:

Damon Albarn
Danger Mouse
Mos Def
Jamie Hewlett
De La Soul


or if you just like forward thinking pop music that blends hip-hop and alt rock

707 jaunte  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:35:02pm

Flags aren't a determinative measure of national character today.
Image: uk-flag.png
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

708 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:35:29pm

re: #689 WindUpBird

well, its not as if there's actually been LGF posts showcasing Gorillaz tunes!

oh wait

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

709 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:35:43pm

re: #702 Obdicut

No, Cato, Israel isn't a secular democracy. There are certain aspects of the law that are handled in a religious fashion. For example, secular Jews generally get married by leaving the country, getting married elsewhere, because of this.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Israel has large parts of it that are a secular democracy, but it's not nearly as clear-cut as here in the US.

It's close enough given what we seen in the rest of the region and much of the rest of the world.

Try being Bahai in the land of that religion's birth.

710 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:35:45pm

re: #698 negativ
Your silly. I like you.

711 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:35:50pm

re: #701 Cato the Elder

Because they're not Arabs.

Actually . . . not all of those countries are Arab. I should have said Islamic.

712 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:19pm

re: #693 Dark_Falcon

You, sir, are missing out something fierce.

You must've heard This though;

713 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:20pm

re: #708 Charles

that was the one I was thinking of :D

24th row on the floor for the Seattle show, it's gonna be magical

714 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:29pm

re: #708 Charles

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

LOL!
Charles covers everything of interest!

715 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:33pm

re: #708 Charles

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

You make it really hard to believe that you don't read every comment...

716 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:41pm

re: #712 windsagio

I gotta do that at karaoke again, it's been too long

717 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:36:43pm

re: #695 WindUpBird

this'll make you happy: NPR article on Americans rethinking home ownership

i've been renting for over 18 months now, ever since i moved to Jax. first, i was just afraid of the market...but landlady takes a loss every month and i'm not responsible for the property improvements...ownership isn't exactly making my heart race right now!

even without the mortgage interest tax deduction, i'm living more cheaply in this house than i'd be if i had purchased it.

718 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:11pm

re: #704 elbruce

Israel is not nearly as much of a religious state as you're making it out to be, though. I mean, here in the US we have laws that are clearly based in Christianity, not to mention the "In God We Trust" doohickey, but we're still a secular democracy.

Britain has the COE as the official state religion; do you also think that's a terrible thing?

719 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:22pm

re: #673 Conservative Moonbat

Thank you for having the courage to publicly admit your own ignorance on the subject of the Middle East conflicts. I, too, know too little about the subject to speak intelligently. (I will confess that if I was going to weigh in and say anything, I would have said what ElBruce said about not allowing these multi-national peace talks to be televised. Or even filmed for that matter. Because you know that if a recording exists of the talks, someone is going to release part of it, and they may even edit it a la Breitbart-style, to really inflame passions.)

So, until I learn more, I will say this:

It is a very complicated situation, not easily understood by people not familiar with the history of the conflicts.

The history of the conflicts is in some dispute. What you believe you know depends on where you get your information. Each side has their own media supporters who will slant stories to favor them. In short, it's hard to know what to believe.

To date, I have heard nothing that would justify the ongoing bloodshed. Neither side is completely in the right, and neither side is completely in the wrong.

ANY country that mixes their religion with their formal government is asking for trouble. ANY country, including the United States. (Which is why we can never let the Christian right control our government, for they will turn this country into one run by some version - no one has specified which one yet - of The Bible.)

And lastly, I should keep my big mouth shut about the Middle East. Thank you for letting me say this much.

720 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:24pm

re: #709 Cato the Elder

'because the other people are crappy, we should hold ourselves to a lower standard'?

its the ground zero mosque/SA argument redux.

721 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:24pm

re: #715 JasonA

You make it really hard to believe that you don't read every comment...

I swear, I think a bell dings the minute someone types "Charles".

722 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:24pm

re: #692 Bubblehead II

BTW Elbruce, you still haven't answered my question.

No I haven't. But I did search through this entire thread to find out what question you're talking about, and came up blank. So there's that.

723 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:37:56pm

re: #703 windsagio

It does indeed! The cult of home-ownership is one of the blights on the US economy.

1. i agree.
2. i'd like to celebrate an economic point on which we clearly agree, as it doesn't happen every day;)

724 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:38:07pm

re: #709 Cato the Elder

It's close enough given what we seen in the rest of the region and much of the rest of the world.

Try being Bahai in the land of that religion's birth.

No thanks. I think pointing out that the UK is technically a Christian nation-- of a particular subset-- is probably a better route.

725 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:38:26pm

re: #716 WindUpBird

So hard to not just start linking videos now ;) I have 'clint eastwood' and 'melancholy hill' on tap :D

726 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:38:45pm

re: #703 windsagio

It does indeed! The cult of home-ownership is one of the blights on the US economy.

Not for me.
Of course, mine's paid for.

727 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:39:26pm

re: #726 reine.de.tout

Owning a home is great if you can really afford it and actually need it.

People think they HAVE to have one, like there's a checklist for having a worthwhile life. That's what I object to.

728 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:39:26pm

re: #550 WindUpBird

It also occurs to me my mother uses emoticons like I do, hah

Though I think that's the reverse, she got her internet diction from me because we shoot the shit over email about cat breeds and Disney trivia

My grandfather was murdered by a gang of emoticons, you insensitive clod.

729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:39:30pm

re: #726 reine.de.tout

Jealousy ding.

730 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:40:19pm

re: #729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jealousy ding.

in bed

731 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:40:20pm

re: #719 Wayne A. Schneider

I would note that debates between secular and religious Jews over the importance that religion should play in the governance of Israel go on all the time, heatedly, in Israel. As well as the respect that should be accorded to ultra-Orthodox Jews, in regards to getting out of military service and living on government assistance.

732 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:40:25pm

re: #717 Aceofwhat?

i've been renting for over 18 months now, ever since i moved to Jax. first, i was just afraid of the market...but landlady takes a loss every month and i'm not responsible for the property improvements...ownership isn't exactly making my heart race right now!

even without the mortgage interest tax deduction, i'm living more cheaply in this house than i'd be if i had purchased it.

That's my thing, I don't want to work my ass off just for the status of home ownership. I like my apartment, it's got a big garage, I like the neighborhood. I'd like to own, but I don't want to have to choose between having a life and having a house, I have a lot of friends who are housepoor, it just seems like too big a sacrifice.

Also, Portland is a cheap market compared to seattle or the bay, but it's still a coastal big city, right now I could probably afford a tiny little place in a boring suburb, and be paying out the ass for the privilege. Not for me!

733 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:40:32pm

re: #706 WindUpBird

[Video]Well, if you recognize any of these names, you may like them:

Damon Albarn
Danger Mouse
Mos Def
Jamie Hewlett
De La Soul

or if you just like forward thinking pop music that blends hip-hop and alt rock

I see. Thank you.

734 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:40:58pm

re: #725 windsagio

So hard to not just start linking videos now ;) I have 'clint eastwood' and 'melancholy hill' on tap :D

I'm a big fan of M1A1 :D

735 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:41:27pm

re: #718 Obdicut

Britain has the COE as the official state religion; do you also think that's a terrible thing?

I never said it was "terrible" in any instance. Just worse than not having SoC&S. That would include Britain, yes.

736 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:41:49pm

re: #733 Dark_Falcon

I see. Thank you.

they're good stuff, they really are at the vanguard of pop music, they've developed an entire mythology with the artist from Tank Girl, invented characters, invented backgrounds and personalities, it's really like they've tapped into some font of pure creativity

737 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:41:50pm

re: #722 elbruce

No I haven't. But I did search through this entire thread to find out what question you're talking about, and came up blank. So there's that.

You can also click on someone's nic, and "read recent comments' to find an old question. Lots of AMAZING tools Charles has provided on this blog.

738 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:42:05pm

Er, scratch the "not" in #735...

739 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:42:06pm

re: #712 windsagio

You, sir, are missing out something fierce.

You must've heard This though;


[Video]

Yeah, I've heard that. I just knew very little about the band, is all.

740 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:42:34pm

re: #728 goddamnedfrank

My grandfather was murdered by a gang of emoticons, you insensitive clod.

"To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kinda scary. I've wondered where this started, and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus and a clown killed my dad."

741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:42:49pm

Shit... Bogart is fantastic at paranoia. Holy cow this is good!

742 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:43:19pm

re: #739 Dark_Falcon

Hey, how's your back doing?
*smooch*

743 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:43:34pm

re: #734 WindUpBird

I'm a big fan of M1A1 :D

Who isn't? They smash through T-72s with ease, combining speed, armor and firepower. Only the M1A2 is better. ;)

744 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:43:44pm

re: #741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Shit... Bogart is fantastic at paranoia.

Does he do it better than Geller?

745 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:43:55pm

Israel is NOT a theocracy. It has a parliamentary system and operates as a democratic republic like the U.S. It does, however, have a state religion, Judaism. Jewish stores close on the Sabbath. Restaurant food is kosher, etc.

What they don't do is force anyone to abide by religious law. Certainly if you're not Jewish, but even if you are. There are no religious police or fashion police, anyone that makes you pray X times a day.

On the other hand, don't show up near any of the holy places (Jewish, Muslim or Christian) bearing your legs or arms. You won't be allowed in.

At any rate, it's completely different than in much (tho not all) of the Arab world.

746 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:44:20pm

re: #740 WindUpBird

-Jack Handy

747 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:44:48pm

re: #742 Floral Giraffe

Hey, how's your back doing?
*smooch*

It was good yesterday then bad most of today. Right now, its OK but that's because of the painkillers.

748 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:44:52pm

re: #744 JasonA

Eggsellent...

749 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:45:21pm

re: #726 reine.de.tout

Not for me.
Of course, mine's paid for.

I remember my mother telling me what their mortgage note was on the family home, it was less a month than I was paying in rent for my apartment. Of course when they bought in a suburb of Seattle after the Boeing crash, they were surrounded by fields and farmland, now their house is worth...more o_o

750 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:45:58pm

re: #727 windsagio

Owning a home is great if you can really afford it and actually need it.

People think they HAVE to have one, like there's a checklist for having a worthwhile life. That's what I object to.

Ah.
Well, yes.
We did not overbuy.
Our home is very modest, and was only a few inches too small while we raised our daughter.
Right now, it seems just the right size ( 1600 sq ft)

751 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:46:00pm

Ever take forever typing a response to a question just to have the conversation pass you buy? Phooey. I'm moving to the new thread.

752 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #745 marjoriemoon

Israel is NOT a theocracy. It has a parliamentary system and operates as a democratic republic like the U.S. It does, however, have a state religion, Judaism. Jewish stores close on the Sabbath. Restaurant food is kosher, etc.

What they don't do is force anyone to abide by religious law. Certainly if you're not Jewish, but even if you are. There are no religious police or fashion police, anyone that makes you pray X times a day.

On the other hand, don't show up near any of the holy places (Jewish, Muslim or Christian) bearing your legs or arms. You won't be allowed in.

At any rate, it's completely different than in much (tho not all) of the Arab world.

If I refrain from baring them, will they still allow me to bear them?

LOL, I couldn't resist. And with that, I'm heading upstairs. Or to bed. This thread has given me heartache.

753 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:46:27pm

gorillaz is pretty cool.

754 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:47:22pm

re: #728 goddamnedfrank

My grandfather was murdered by a gang of emoticons, you insensitive clod.

Whoa!
A sense of humor!
Love it.

755 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:47:24pm

re: #743 Dark_Falcon

Who isn't? They smash through T-72s with ease, combining speed, armor and firepower. Only the M1A2 is better. ;)

I'll never get fetishizing military hardware because I'll never be able to own or drive a tank. It's like being a fan of earthmoving equipment.

756 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:48:16pm

re: #743 Dark_Falcon

but anyhow:

757 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:48:21pm

re: #704 elbruce


I would have a hell of a hard time explaining something I never said, yeah.


Oh. Well, if Israel has never initiated conflict for religious reasons, then where do we get off saying that they ought to be a little more secular in their democracy? See, when you say something like that and then don't offer any real, concrete, actual "reasons"...it sorta makes it seem like you don't have a good reason.

Just sayin'.
.


That isn't a position I support at all. Religion is great for lots of people. Like any belief system (any religion plus capitalism, communism, mercantilism, etc) it can and historically has been abused.

All I'm saying here is that separation of church and state is a good idea for any nation. You seem to oppose that rather limited and reasonable position.

How much separation of church and state? Let me summarize Obdicut's question: hooray England...boo Israel? That reminds me of the folks who say that Park 51 is "too close to hallowed ground", but struggle to say exactly how far away from GZ is far enough.

I don't oppose your position. I simply doubt your ability to magically draw the line in the magically appropriate place.

758 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:49:01pm

re: #737 Floral Giraffe

You can also click on someone's nic, and "read recent comments' to find an old question. Lots of AMAZING tools Charles has provided on this blog.

He comes from a very primitive blog. The Soros Dollars didn't trickle down enough to allow Think Progress to have any of the cool features we take for granted at LGF.

759 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:49:38pm

re: #544 Obdicut

Ah, gotcha. Sorry for misinterpreting.

I agree. This is a good place for passionate moderates, not just people who are moderate due to apathy.

Though there are some Magical Balance Fairy devotees.

Can I trademark that? "Magical Balance Fairy"tm

760 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:49:43pm

re: #721 reine.de.tout

I swear, I think a bell dings the minute someone types "Charles".

i've never asked, but i'd bet a glass of good gin that just such an alert exists...(i have a decent glass of gin handy at the moment and i'm looking to upgrade;)

761 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:49:43pm

re: #722 elbruce

No I haven't. But I did search through this entire thread to find out what question you're talking about, and came up blank. So there's that.

Pretty Lame. You did know that you can click on a persons avatar and then click on recent comments to find out what they recently posted didn't you? If not here it is for you. #632

We also have a tool called search

Suggest you become familiar with them

762 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:49:57pm

re: #752 Cato the Elder

If I refrain from baring them, will they still allow me to bear them?

LOL, I couldn't resist. And with that, I'm heading upstairs. Or to bed. This thread has given me heartache.

You got me, baby :>

763 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:50:05pm

re: #758 Reginald Perrin

He comes from a very primitive blog. The Soros Dollars didn't trickle down enough to allow Think Progress to have any of the cool features we take for granted at LGF.

Part of the Liberal agenda is to appeal to the poor and keep them that way. At least that's what Rush tells me.

764 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:50:54pm

re: #758 Reginald Perrin

Well, is he trainable?
A friend of yours, etc...

765 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:51:03pm

re: #760 Aceofwhat?

i've never asked, but i'd bet a glass of good gin that just such an alert exists...(i have a decent glass of gin handy at the moment and i'm looking to upgrade;)

Champagne for us, this evening.[Link: www.snooth.com...]

766 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:51:29pm

re: #758 Reginald Perrin

He comes from a very primitive blog. The Soros Dollars didn't trickle down enough to allow Think Progress to have any of the cool features we take for granted at LGF.

You need to edumacate him.
Really, there are just too many great features for someone to stay unaware and not use them.
Spy
Master Spy
Pages
Return after posting
Thread subscription
Click the nic
Click the avatar
There are more; right now I just can't think of 'em all.

767 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:51:45pm

re: #735 elbruce

I never said it was "terrible" in any instance. Just worse than not having SoC&S. That would include Britain, yes.

Okay-- I'd submit to you that the State of Israel is actually suprisingly secular given the large and cohesive observant Jewish population within it, as compared to, say, the US, which touts having separation of church and state while having a large number of laws sourced in Christian doctrines.

Furthermore, I don't think that the Arab states, or much of anyone, would really notice if Israel's government shifted slightly more towards secular democracy; it's not the religion of the government that they care about, so much, as that of the populace.

768 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:51:52pm

re: #675 elbruce

Such a thing would have to be kept away from TV cameras. I don't have much hope for that working either, but doing it without the additional neighbors seems pointless when they can undercut anything that gets agreed to anyway.

Reasonable enough. Back in the day of Jordan realizing it was time to stop fighting Israel, the King (not elected) would set about trying to put together little kum-bye-ya get togethers of non-official officials from the various countries involved. The stories go that he'd cook a spaghetti dinner (like a regular guy) as he would host these groups of regular guys and try to have regular guy talks about how to assmble peace in the Middle East.

All admirable but based on some faulty pre-assumptions. A Hashemite King whose family feels entitled to someday reclaim Mecca and Medina from troglodyte Wahabists is not going to settle for an arrangement that eliminates monarchies and claims to holy places. So said king convinced western diplomats that "the solution" will not resemble a pluralistic democracy because it isn't religiously/culturally compatible with the region and would never be "organic". These diplomats, with their bellies full of the king's spaghetti and a head full of understanding and enlightenment, return home to places like DC and call themselves "realists".

The reality? The populace gets screwed, just as the Palestinians were repeatedly screwed by the same spaghetti cooking King.

769 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:52:07pm

re: #727 windsagio

Owning a home is great if you can really afford it and actually need it.

People think they HAVE to have one, like there's a checklist for having a worthwhile life. That's what I object to.

well that and there is simply more people in America and real estate is more expensive.

The values of our parents in home ownership, they don't really apply to us. The game has changed. The real estate market has changed. The economy has changed. It used to be practical to own a home. Much less so now. I know a lot of people my age who probably won't ever own a home. They simply value other things, and a house these days requires a larger sacrifice than it used to.

Part of the whole housing lending crisis is that collision, that dissonance, the practicality hitting up against the American Dream of it.

770 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:52:24pm

re: #759 prairiefire

Can I trademark that? "Magical Balance Fairy"tm

Feel free to use it without attribution.

771 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:52:27pm

re: #732 WindUpBird

That's my thing, I don't want to work my ass off just for the status of home ownership. I like my apartment, it's got a big garage, I like the neighborhood. I'd like to own, but I don't want to have to choose between having a life and having a house, I have a lot of friends who are housepoor, it just seems like too big a sacrifice.

Also, Portland is a cheap market compared to seattle or the bay, but it's still a coastal big city, right now I could probably afford a tiny little place in a boring suburb, and be paying out the ass for the privilege. Not for me!

yep. too many people don't do the math...if/when it becomes CLEARLY advantageous for me to own again, i will...until then, my landlady can pay my property taxes and fix things when they break!

772 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:52:29pm

Okay, I've been thinking about a comment regarding what happens when Mubarak dies in Egypt since last night, and wanted to clarify/comment on what I said. Is that okay? Sorry for the off-topic.

773 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:52:45pm

re: #642 Aceofwhat?

heh. i love the backstop part...coach won't listen, huh? here, coach, go fetch THIS ball...

My problem is, i want to hit the ball every time...not because i'm great, but because i hate waiting for my turn. so whenever i play softball, baseball, whiffleball, etc...i get twitchy. I understand that it's not cool for me to continuously be the DH, but i don't like it. So tennis fits me perfectly...i get to hit the ball every time (or often enough, in doubles) and make thousands of minor adjustments per match. Keeps the mind and the body busy...

Tennis demands you think on your feet, baseball allows you to plan ahead for contingencies. I argue on line because I can think logically but not quickly. Tennis would kill me.

774 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:53:00pm

re: #766 reine.de.tout

You need to edumacate him.
Really, there are just too many great features for someone to stay unaware and not use them.
Spy
Master Spy
Pages
Return after posting
Thread subscription
Click the nic
Click the avatar
There are more; right now I just can't think of 'em all.

Nevermind some browser functions that some people are unaware of. Like the search function. Very handy for finding someone's name and updinging all their posts. hint hint

775 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:53:11pm

re: #771 Aceofwhat?

yep. too many people don't do the math...if/when it becomes CLEARLY advantageous for me to own again, i will...until then, my landlady can pay my property taxes and fix things when they break!

hell yeah!

776 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:53:21pm

re: #755 WindUpBird

I'll never get fetishizing military hardware because I'll never be able to own or drive a tank. It's like being a fan of earthmoving equipment.

Driving them was the second best thing about being a tanker. Being in the gunners seat, hand on the Cadillacs, now that's a blast, pun intended.

M60A3. Best. Tank. Evah. :D

777 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:53:36pm

re: #770 Obdicut

Feel free to use it without attribution.

I'll attribute it to just one more good thing I've learned at LGF.

778 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:54:13pm

re: #764 Floral Giraffe

Well, is he trainable?
A friend of yours, etc...

Not a friend, just someone whose commenting past suggests that he is an honest debator.

I doubt if he is trainable, just look at his choices of topics to debate.
///

779 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:54:30pm

re: #776 wlewisiii

Driving them was the second best thing about being a tanker. Being in the gunners seat, hand on the Cadillacs, now that's a blast, pun intended.

M60A3. Best. Tank. Evah. :D

See, I GET IT when it's coming from people who got to drive them! :D

780 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:55:36pm

re: #755 WindUpBird

I'll never get fetishizing military hardware because I'll never be able to own or drive a tank. It's like being a fan of earthmoving equipment.

Actually, there are people on the west coast who own and drive tanks. They don't tend to parade their tanks through liberal areas though, since when they did that through Marin County they actually got called "baby-killers". Most of the tanks were WWII models, Shermans, Stuarts, and Chafee's, plus some Tank Destroyers. I'm a big fan of tanks and heavy armor.

781 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:56:02pm

re: #745 marjoriemoon

Israel is NOT a theocracy.

Absolutely! Let's find the bastid who said it was and git 'im! *looks around*


re: #757 Aceofwhat?

Oh. Well, if Israel has never initiated conflict for religious reasons, then where do we get off saying that they ought to be a little more secular in their democracy?

I didn't even go so far as saying they ought to, because I really don't think they'd even entertain such a suggestion for an instant. All I said was if you've got some religion in your government, it's going to cause tensions with neighbors and citizens who aren't that religion. So they can (hopefully) minimize those problems, but never completely eliminate them.


re: #757 Aceofwhat?

Let me summarize Obdicut's question: hooray England...boo Israel?

I never hooray'd England on it either.

I don't know who you people are arguing with, but it ain't me. And while I'd like to humor you by actually presenting the arguments that you're so hot to shoot down, my heart just ain't in it. Mainly because I don't believe in them either.

782 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #769 WindUpBird


Part of the whole housing lending crisis is that collision, that dissonance, the practicality hitting up against the American Dream of it.

wait, I thought it was 8 years of Bush that did it?

783 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:57:00pm

re: #765 prairiefire

Champagne for us, this evening.[Link: www.snooth.com...]

yummy

784 Bubblehead II  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:57:24pm

Moving up to the new thread.

The sounds of *crickets* is getting to me.

///

785 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:58:28pm

re: #778 Reginald Perrin

Not a friend, just someone whose commenting past suggests that he is an honest debator.

I doubt if he is trainable, just look at his choices of topics to debate.
///

Nonsense, everyone is trainable, if they want to be!
*smooch*

786 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:00:43pm

re: #781 elbruce

Well, you did say this:

Secular democracy works. But that never seems to be on the table. Until it is, there's always going to be a greater-than-zero amount of problems going on there.

Which does appear to be sourcing some of the problems there in Israel's government being not a secular democracy. I'd submit, as I said, that they're as much of a secular democracy as the US, and more so in some ways.

Furthermore, I do not think that the religiosity of the government, which is a rather domestic thing, plays a lot of part in the problems in the region. There's a definite religious conflict, but it would exist whether the governmetn became more secular or not.

787 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:02:30pm

re: #785 Floral Giraffe

Nonsense, everyone is trainable, if they want to be!
*smooch*

I do not believe you.

Convince me.

788 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:03:27pm

re: #785 Floral Giraffe

Nonsense, everyone is trainable, if they want to be!
*smooch*

You weren't
*wink*

789 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:04:25pm

re: #787 JasonA

re: #788 Reginald Perrin

LOL!
You just need to try a little harder!
*wink*

790 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:04:32pm

re: #781 elbruce

I didn't even go so far as saying they ought to, because I really don't think they'd even entertain such a suggestion for an instant. All I said was if you've got some religion in your government, it's going to cause tensions with neighbors and citizens who aren't that religion.

Then let us narrow this down, because i truly don't wish to burn strawmen. Particulate emissions, they're a huge component of AGW, dontcha know!

"cause tensions with neighbors", then, seems to be at the heart of your "less religion" point.

I think this is where we differ. If the neighbors don't like it, they should go fuck themselves, not to put too fine a point on it. The alternative, which i read in "cause tensions with neighbors", is saying that less religion is better because the neighbors are intolerant, and so let's feed the intolerance.

That may not be what you feel. But it is the logical extension of "less religion in the state to avoid causing tensions with neighbors".

Don't feed the intolerant neighbors...i think it's on a sign somewhere/

791 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:04:51pm

re: #786 Obdicut

Actually, I shouldn't say that the US is less of or an equivalent, secularly, to Israel. We are less so in our laws, but in many ways, more so in our actual practice at the local level.

It's all a mixed up kettle of fish.

792 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:05:52pm

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges."

793 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:05:53pm

re: #791 Obdicut

Actually, I shouldn't say that the US is less of or an equivalent, secularly, to Israel. We are less so in our laws, but in many ways, more so in our actual practice at the local level.

It's all a mixed up kettle of fish.

agree.

794 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:07:42pm

re: #792 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges."

What's wrong with badgers?

795 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:08:27pm

re: #794 b_sharp

They stinking.

796 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:09:42pm

re: #731 Obdicut

As well as the respect that should be accorded to ultra-Orthodox Jews, in regards to getting out of military service and living on government assistance.

Well, I will say this. My own feeling is that religious beliefs should not be an excuse to getting completely out of serving your country in its time of need. That does not mean you have to have a combat role in a conflict, but you ought to do something. As for government assistance to Orthodox Jews, I am not at all familiar with their religious beliefs to know what this has to do with government assistance, but if the government offers some kind of assistance to its citizens, then ALL citizens should be allowed to receive such assistance. I think any government should think of its citizens as citizens first, and whatever religious category they fit second.

797 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:11:46pm

re: #796 Wayne A. Schneider

speaking of middle eastern countries...i think that governments should allow women to drive. and other stuff.

798 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:12:04pm

re: #786 Obdicut

Well, you did say this:

Which does appear to be sourcing some of the problems there in Israel's government being not a secular democracy. I'd submit, as I said, that they're as much of a secular democracy as the US, and more so in some ways.

Probably. But the comparison is only really apt if our flag is a big golden cross and we change our name to the United States of Jesus. Then we've got a basis for comparing the more specific details across the board.

.

re: #790 Aceofwhat?

"cause tensions with neighbors", then, seems to be at the heart of your "less religion" point.

And citizens of your own country too. Don't forget that part.

Also, I did mention that it's not something that in my pipe-dream secularization fantasy would or could apply only to Israel. That one would have to be done with every country in the region, or there's not much point. This is, needless to say, flat out impossible.

799 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:12:57pm

re: #797 Aceofwhat?

speaking of middle eastern countries...i think that governments should allow women to drive. and other stuff.

Like vote?

800 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:13:25pm

re: #796 Wayne A. Schneider

It's a complex issue. Here's a pretty good article on the subject:

[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]

801 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:15:41pm

re: #797 Aceofwhat?

speaking of middle eastern countries...i think that governments should allow women to drive. and other stuff.

Dude, have ever actually seen the way they drive?

///

802 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:15:57pm

re: #795 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They stinking.

Would a dollop of Jose Cuervo help?

803 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:16:01pm

re: #798 elbruce

Probably. But the comparison is only really apt if our flag is a big golden cross and we change our name to the United States of Jesus. Then we've got a basis for comparing the more specific details across the board.

Not really. I mean, I get that you're fascinated with the semantic point of it being "Israel", but you seem to be intentionally ignoring that a lot of the people who founded modern-day Israel were very consciously secular. I'm just not really feeling why the name 'Israel' has such magical meaning.

In addition, I'd say that it's weirder when a state has heavy involvement from a religion while pretending it has separation of church and state.

By the way, I'm a secular Jew.


Also, I did mention that it's not something that in my pipe-dream secularization fantasy would or could apply only to Israel. That one would have to be done with every country in the region, or there's not much point. This is, needless to say, flat out impossible.

Making that clear from the start probably would have been a good idea.

804 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:16:34pm

re: #799 Floral Giraffe

Like vote?

Bingo! I believe that a shortcut to answering "is the democracy secular enough" can be achieved by observing how the women of the country are treated.

805 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:17:29pm

re: #801 JasonA

Dude, have ever actually seen the way they drive?

///

Heh. Does your lady drive THAT badly?
//

806 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:17:57pm

re: #799 Floral Giraffe

Like vote?

Not so fast my dear. Only white males know what is best for inferior species such as females.

807 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:18:18pm

re: #806 b_sharp

Not so fast my dear. Only white males know what is best for inferior species such as females.

Only if they own land.

808 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:19:01pm

re: #807 JasonA

Only if they own land.

And aren't Irish, Jewish, Italian, or Latin.

809 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:20:16pm

re: #798 elbruce

And citizens of your own country too. Don't forget that part.

au contraire, let's forget that part. not only does it have nothing to do with regional conflicts, but it's quite inapplicable in a country that tolerates so much religious diversity.

Also, I did mention that it's not something that in my pipe-dream secularization fantasy would or could apply only to Israel. That one would have to be done with every country in the region, or there's not much point. This is, needless to say, flat out impossible.

that's where we disagree. why suggest that secularization is worth even a pipe dream when religion is clearly only a stumbling block for some of the nations in the region. your inability to show where Israel's religious pieces have led it into conflict betray your dream to secularize them. secularizing Israel for the faults of the nations around them smacks of prejudice.

810 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:20:45pm

re: #808 Obdicut

And aren't Irish, Jewish, Italian, or Latin.

I think we've covered all but 5 people in NYC with these criteria.

811 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:21:21pm

re: #806 b_sharp

Not so fast my dear. Only white males know what is best for inferior species such as females.

You missed a sarc tag, I hope?

812 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:21:44pm

re: #810 JasonA

I think we've covered all but 5 people in NYC with these criteria.

wait...that only leaves Russians. Commie!! He's a Commie!!

813 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:22:20pm

re: #810 JasonA

I think we've covered all but 5 people in NYC with these criteria.

Er, did I mention no Catholics or atheists, and you have to be able to recite the Lord's Prayer from memory, and not have a witch tit?

814 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:22:41pm

re: #550 WindUpBird

It also occurs to me my mother uses emoticons like I do, hah

Though I think that's the reverse, she got her internet diction from me because we shoot the shit over email about cat breeds and Disney trivia

Disney trivia? Why did I not know this, WUB? I have a direct genetic link to Prince Charming.

815 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:23:12pm

re: #813 Obdicut

Er, did I mention no Catholics or atheists, and you have to be able to recite the Lord's Prayer from memory, and not have a witch tit?


Ewww

816 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:23:48pm

re: #812 Aceofwhat?

wait...that only leaves Russians. Commie!! He's a Commie!!

Oh please. Russians are Asiatic. No way we're letting them vote. I mean, you. You're letting them vote. Wait, you're Italian, right? They. No way they're letting them vote.

817 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:23:54pm

re: #813 Obdicut

Well, that leaves me out./

818 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:25:00pm

re: #817 prairiefire

Well, that leaves me out./

It's the witch tit, isn't it?

819 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:25:17pm

re: #811 Floral Giraffe

You missed a sarc tag, I hope?

I rely on my open and transparent stands on issues to supply virtual sarc tags.

In real life the sarcasm was dripping off of that comment.

820 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:25:18pm

BOOBS!

821 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:25:34pm

re: #817 prairiefire

Well, that leaves me out./

I'm trying to think of anyone I know that this would actually let vote.

I think my neighbors in San Francisco are Episcopalian. So he could vote. Their last name is Brill. Looks legit.

822 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:26:20pm

re: #816 Obdicut

Oh please. Russians are Asiatic. No way we're letting them vote. I mean, you. You're letting them vote. Wait, you're Italian, right? They. No way they're letting them vote.

i only look italian. i'm southern german and english.

823 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:27:04pm

re: #822 Aceofwhat?

i only look italian. i'm southern german and english.

Do you own land?

You're Protestant, right?

824 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:27:28pm

re: #821 Obdicut

I'm trying to think of anyone I know that this would actually let vote.

I think my neighbors in San Francisco are Episcopalian. So he could vote. Their last name is Brill. Looks legit.

I look like a Swede, do I get to vote?!?!

825 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:28:22pm

re: #823 Obdicut

Do you own land?

You're Protestant, right?

i'm protestant but i'm renting at the moment, so no votesies for me...

826 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:28:25pm

re: #824 Varek Raith

I look like a Swede, do I get to vote?!?!

Not a chance, Sith-worshiper. Which I guess is kind of self-worship. Anyway, no Dark Lords of the Force allowed.

We should put up a sign.

827 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:28:52pm

re: #826 Obdicut

Not a chance, Sith-worshiper. Which I guess is kind of self-worship. Anyway, no Dark Lords of the Force allowed.

We should put up a sign.

yeah. dude's practically a satanist/

828 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:29:09pm

re: #826 Obdicut

Not a chance, Sith-worshiper. Which I guess is kind of self-worship. Anyway, no Dark Lords of the Force allowed.

We should put up a sign.

wait, NO SIGNS!!

829 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:29:29pm

re: #825 Aceofwhat?

i'm protestant but i'm renting at the moment, so no votesies for me...

I think my neighbor Mr. Brill gets to run the country, then.

Which would be cool, actually. He's a hell of a nice guy. He washed my parents' car before they left on their cross-country trip just because he was washing his at the same time and wanted to be nice.

Good enough reason as any to hand the reins of power over to him.

He only reads one book a year though.

830 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:29:52pm

re: #827 Aceofwhat?

yeah. dude's practically a satanist/

Please, I kicked Satan's ass for not paying the money he owed me.
Broke both his legs.
I FOLLOW NO ONE!!!
:)

831 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:29:56pm

re: #820 Varek Raith

You missed the boob thread, I'm afraid...
//
*The Aes Sedai waves*

832 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:30:16pm

re: #809 Aceofwhat?

your inability to show where Israel's religious pieces have led it into conflict betray your dream to secularize them.

I keep explaining it, but people don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Example:

re: #803 Obdicut

I'm just not really feeling why the name 'Israel' has such magical meaning.

Um, because it literally means "all Jews?" It's in the prayers and everything. The Sh'ma for instance: "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."

It would literally be like a Muslim country just calling themselves "Islam."


re: #809 Aceofwhat?

secularizing Israel for the faults of the nations around them smacks of prejudice.

What does just wanting to secularize everybody in the whole world smack of? (A: windmill-tilting)

833 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:30:20pm

I am so late to this thread...but

the best signs will be the quotes of Martin Luther King, from his speech.

I am so disgusted that Beck and the hater Palin will be there on that day.

834 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:30:33pm

re: #829 Obdicut

I think my neighbor Mr. Brill gets to run the country, then.

Which would be cool, actually. He's a hell of a nice guy. He washed my parents' car before they left on their cross-country trip just because he was washing his at the same time and wanted to be nice.

Good enough reason as any to hand the reins of power over to him.

He only reads one book a year though.

All hail Mr. Brill!

835 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:30:57pm

re: #826 Obdicut

Not a chance, Sith-worshiper. Which I guess is kind of self-worship. Anyway, no Dark Lords of the Force allowed.

We should put up a sign.

I'm still appalled that we let those people post on this site.

No offense...

836 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:31:21pm

re: #806 b_sharp

Not so fast my dear. Only white males know what is best for inferior species such as females.

Yes, Dear.
If you say so, Dear.
///
(bleech!)

837 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:32:54pm

re: #832 elbruce

I keep explaining it, but people don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Example:

re: #803 Obdicut

Um, because it literally means "all Jews?" It's in the prayers and everything. The Sh'ma for instance: "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."

It would literally be like a Muslim country just calling themselves "Islam."

re: #809 Aceofwhat?

What does just wanting to secularize everybody in the whole world smack of? (A: windmill-tilting)

*sigh* We've got our work cut out for us with this one.

Someone break out the de-hypnotizer.

838 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:33:56pm

re: #836 Floral Giraffe

Yes, Dear.
If you say so, Dear.
///
(bleech!)

Hey, it got a laugh back in the 16th century.

839 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:34:32pm

re: #800 Obdicut

Thanks. Interesting article. I was unaware of that aspect of Israeli life.

I know I may get flamed for it, but I will say that I am atheist. I do not believe in the existence of deities. So I am not one to believe that religions involving deities are a good thing, and while I am all for allowing the free exercise of religion, I do not believe in promoting it. I don't think the head of state of a secular nation (such as ours) should be making reference to God and what His opinion may or may not be about us.

I think that if any country allows its citizens to study a particular religion (or Religion in general) and not work, while getting government assistance, I just don't see how that benefits a society. Religions are, by and large, philosophies of how to live based on the past, with the technology of the past. Humans progress. We learn things. And one of the things we learn is that there are no deities involved in most of the things we know today. There are things we still don't understand, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the work of some deity. I just don't see how a society benefits by encouraging its populace to study Religion.

Having said that, if all you get out of your religious practices is the idea that we are all in this together, that we collectively do better when we cooperate instead of being selfish, and that we really should all just treat each other the way we would like to be treated ourselves, well, you don't need to believe in a God to do that. And you don't need to study Religion.

840 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:35:02pm

re: #832 elbruce

May I, ahem, once again, suggest you think about the
"first rule of holes"?
It's STOP DIGGING, in case you've forgotten.
Reginal Perrin has vouched for you.
He's a keeper.
You might think about reading for a bit, rather than posting.

841 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:35:09pm

argh, my roommates unplugged our modem mid conversation >> hate that!

842 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:35:28pm

re: #832 elbruce

Um, because it literally means "all Jews?" It's in the prayers and everything. The Sh'ma for instance: "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."

It would literally be like a Muslim country just calling themselves "Islam."


Language is a really cool thing. It allows you to have both literal and figurative meanings. You can also have multiple literal meanings. It's kooky.

I really don't get why you're obsessing over this point. Do you seriously think Israel should change its name? You seriously think that would matter to anyone?

Do you get that Israel was founded by a lot of very secular Jews, who still decided to call it "Israel"? Doesn't that make you rethink your theory in the least?

I'm sorry I'm having trouble grappling with this, but this is the first time anyone's suggested that Jews shouldn't have called Israel Israel. Should they have called it Judea or something?

843 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:36:07pm

re: #837 JasonA

*sigh* We've got our work cut out for us with this one.

Someone break out the de-hypnotizer.

Got the 300hp Mind Trenching Machine on standby. Just give me a signal.

844 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:36:11pm

re: #838 b_sharp

Hey, it got a laugh back in the 16th century.

Should you go join it there?

845 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:37:00pm

re: #837 JasonA

*sigh* We've got our work cut out for us with this one.

Someone break out the de-hypnotizer.

Reginald vouched for him. Don't give up. I'm learning through this conversation. If we can just hang out through the disagreements, not getting over the edge offended, we will all benefit. Pls JasonA.

846 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:37:00pm

re: #842 Obdicut

I suspect its called 'getting lost in minutia'. You know you're in a discussion and end up getting funnelled into a minor side point, that all of a sudden you, and everyone else are totally stuck on.

PS: This isn't you obdi, but I still find the 'oh look he's just hypnotized or something' really annoying :P

847 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:37:22pm

re: #845 Stanley Sea

Pff making me feel bad >>

848 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:37:34pm

re: #839 Wayne A. Schneider

I agree. That being said, some of the Ultraorthodox community-- amongst them our own Aloutte-- are attempting to set a better example. Her son has a job, and served in the military.

I hope that trend continues, if only to alleviate the poverty amongst the Ultraorthodox.

849 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:38:03pm

re: #845 Stanley Sea

Reginald vouched for him. Don't give up. I'm learning through this conversation. If we can just hang out through the disagreements, not getting over the edge offended, we will all benefit. Pls JasonA.

Oh, please. You know damn well when I've given up on someone. Notice how I'm still being civil?

850 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:38:07pm

re: #829 Obdicut

I think my neighbor Mr. Brill gets to run the country, then.

Which would be cool, actually. He's a hell of a nice guy. He washed my parents' car before they left on their cross-country trip just because he was washing his at the same time and wanted to be nice.

Good enough reason as any to hand the reins of power over to him.

He only reads one book a year though.

he's got my vote...

851 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:38:38pm

re: #848 Obdicut

For me the most interesting thing in the whole Israel issue is the business with ultra-orthodox outsiders coming in. Its this whole weird reality/fantasy play.

852 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:38:58pm

re: #850 Aceofwhat?

he's got my vote...

I need to see his birth certificate first.

The long form, please.

853 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:39:16pm

re: #837 JasonA

*sigh* We've got our work cut out for us with this one.

Someone break out the de-hypnotizer.

I think he's fine. He hasn't said anything factually incorrect, which puts him ahead of 99.9% of people talking about Israel.

We should all remember that there is no particular reason for the average person to be that informed about Israel or to have given the subject a huge amount of thought. We're US citizens. We're not Israelis. I know a lot about it because I'm a Jew. I don't expect an average American citizen to have a fully-formed opinion on it.

854 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:39:38pm

re: #840 Floral Giraffe

May I, ahem, once again, suggest you think about the
"first rule of holes"?
It's STOP DIGGING, in case you've forgotten.
Reginal Perrin has vouched for you.
He's a keeper.
You might think about reading for a bit, rather than posting.

For the first time in a long while, I agree with my longed necked friend.

ElBruce, this topic is not the one to debate at this time. Chill and indulge yourself in the snark that is breaking out upstairs.

855 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:39:39pm

re: #848 Obdicut

I agree. That being said, some of the Ultraorthodox community-- amongst them our own Aloutte-- are attempting to set a better example. Her son has a job, and served in the military.

I hope that trend continues, if only to alleviate the poverty amongst the Ultraorthodox.

Hm? Ultraorthodox can't have jobs?

856 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:39:50pm

re: #847 windsagio

Pff making me feel bad >>

I just got here, thank god, so I have no clue!!

857 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:40:21pm

re: #856 Stanley Sea

Me too actually, but read the post right above yours :p

They're wallpapering upstairs or something so I keep losing 'net >>

858 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:40:47pm

re: #849 JasonA

Oh, please. You know damn well when I've given up on someone. Notice how I'm still being civil?

Just got here, responding to that one post. I know you are 'folk'

no sweat! sorry for just jumping in!

859 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:41:24pm

re: #852 JasonA

I need to see his birth certificate first.

The long form, please.

Mr. Brill is the kind of guy who would have his original birth certificate laminated in a safe deposit box somewhere.

Really nice guy. The neighbors before them were total dicks, it was a huge relief when they moved in.

The old jerky neighbors came out (we share a driveway) while, when we were kids, my brother John and I were playing stickball in the driveway and said, "The property line is right here."

I swear John was about to just whack him in the crotch with the stick, but wisdom prevailed.

860 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:41:32pm

re: #832 elbruce

I keep explaining it, but people don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Nope. Not once have you explained how Israel's religion have led THEM into a conflict, thus making their further secularization an appealing concept.

Note that Israel's religion leading OTHERS into hating them and thus conflict does not count. We don't desecularize country A so that country B will stop being whiny oppressive bitches.

861 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:41:32pm

re: #858 Stanley Sea

should still never accuse people of disagreeing of being 'brainwashed' or 'hypnotized', it implies you think you're automatically right, or something.

862 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:42:28pm

re: #855 JasonA

Hm? Ultraorthodox can't have jobs?

Read the article I cited above for the context for that statement.

In order to avoid military service, which many Ultraorthodox desire to do on religious grounds, they have to remain students until they're 28.

In addition, there's non-employment based on the idea that they should only be focused on studies permanently, amongst some.

Anyway, the article gives it more context.

863 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:42:45pm

re: #860 Aceofwhat?

I'm gonna jump in there. There are factions (again funnily mostly not living in Israel proper) that definitely use the Jewish religion to promote conflict.

Radicals are Radicals are Radicals. It doesn't matter if they're islamic radicals, christian radicals, jewish radicals, or atheist radicals. The problem is the radical mindset.

864 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:43:38pm

re: #854 Reginald Perrin

For the first time in a long while, I agree with my longed necked friend.

ElBruce, this topic is not the one to debate at this time. Chill and indulge yourself in the snark that is breaking out upstairs.

it's ok. i've never held my being right against someone//

865 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:43:40pm

re: #862 Obdicut

Ah. Okay then.

866 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:43:58pm

re: #863 windsagio

Some of the more ardent settlers definitely are provoking conflict on religious grounds. However, they do not represent the state of Israel, and they'd be there whether or not the state was a secular democracy or not.

I do think that the State has, at times, been far too tolerant of illegal settlers who are clearly nutjobs.

867 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:44:00pm

re: #853 Obdicut

I think he's fine. He hasn't said anything factually incorrect, which puts him ahead of 99.9% of people talking about Israel.

We should all remember that there is no particular reason for the average person to be that informed about Israel or to have given the subject a huge amount of thought. We're US citizens. We're not Israelis. I know a lot about it because I'm a Jew. I don't expect an average American citizen to have a fully-formed opinion on it.

Obdi, says it.

We can learn, but don't diss us because we are a wee bit uh, not fully aware.

868 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:44:54pm

re: #861 windsagio

should still never accuse people of disagreeing of being 'brainwashed' or 'hypnotized', it implies you think you're automatically right, or something.

Windy, they've been at this for hours. Is it really that offensive a comment at this point of the conversation?

869 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:46:09pm

re: #863 windsagio

I'm gonna jump in there. There are factions (again funnily mostly not living in Israel proper) that definitely use the Jewish religion to promote conflict.

Radicals are Radicals are Radicals. It doesn't matter if they're islamic radicals, christian radicals, jewish radicals, or atheist radicals. The problem is the radical mindset.

radicals exist in plenty of countries without state religions. radicals will be radicals. but that's far different from saying that if Israel were just a bit less Jewish, they'd be better off.

870 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:46:16pm

re: #866 Obdicut

Some of the more ardent settlers definitely are provoking conflict on religious grounds. However, they do not represent the state of Israel, and they'd be there whether or not the state was a secular democracy or not.

I do think that the State has, at times, been far too tolerant of illegal settlers who are clearly nutjobs.

100% agree. And for the same reasons that we've occasoinally verged on being too tolerant of our own local nutjobs, they have a lot of political heft.

I do get what bruce is saying (I think) its easy to see the whole issue as an essentially religious conflict, since its the hardcore radicals (ie the illegal settlers, or the rocket shooters (NO I"M NOT SAYING THOSE ARE EQUIVALENT)) on both sides that are doing so much to make the conflict worse.

Its also not the fault of the Israeli gov't tho >>

871 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:46:55pm

re: #868 JasonA

Pet peeve >>

Just got into a huge argument with some family members where they accused me of just that, probably shouldn't take it out on you tho :)

872 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:47:10pm

re: #861 windsagio

should still never accuse people of disagreeing of being 'brainwashed' or 'hypnotized', it implies you think you're automatically right, or something.

but what if i am automatically right?

873 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:47:14pm

re: #868 JasonA

Windy, they've been at this for hours. Is it really that offensive a comment at this point of the conversation?

It does seem inaccurate. He's not repeating any of the traditional slurs against Israel. He's engaging in a form of 'bigotry' that he acknowledges; he sees Israel as being more capable of acting in a moral fashion than the Arab states.

My only problem with that argument is it doesn't actually move towards a solution to the plight of the Palestinians, which is mainly rooted in the behavior of the Arab states, and not the behavior of Israel. But it is a consistent and honest, if, I think, flawed position. It doesn't strike me as hypnotized.

874 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:47:23pm

re: #854 Reginald Perrin

For the first time in a long while, I agree with my longed necked friend.

???

875 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:47:41pm

re: #869 Aceofwhat?

my angle is that as long as we don't treat them as if they're special for being Jewish its all the same. They can handle their own problems ;)

876 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:47:57pm

re: #872 Aceofwhat?

but what if i am automatically right?

Then you should be off making a fortune on the stock market!

877 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:48:14pm

re: #874 Floral Giraffe

For the first time in a long while, I agree with my longed necked friend.

???

i read that as "i lack an excuse to spank her", but that's just me/

878 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:48:27pm

re: #873 Obdicut

It does seem inaccurate. He's not repeating any of the traditional slurs against Israel. He's engaging in a form of 'bigotry' that he acknowledges; he sees Israel as being more capable of acting in a moral fashion than the Arab states.

My only problem with that argument is it doesn't actually move towards a solution to the plight of the Palestinians, which is mainly rooted in the behavior of the Arab states, and not the behavior of Israel. But it is a consistent and honest, if, I think, flawed position. It doesn't strike me as hypnotized.

He really does seem think that Israel is too Jewish, no?

879 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:49:46pm

re: #878 JasonA

He really does seem think that Israel is too Jewish, no?

Okay, that bit is weird. But it makes sense if one holds that being a secular democracy is better than having religion in the government, which i also think is true. And he's been clear that when he's talking about less religious, he means the government, not the people.

That part I'm not willing to castigate him on because A) I agree that secular democracies are preferable to those with religion worked into them and B) he clarified and said he wants the same for all the Arab states, and that it's a pipe dream.

880 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:51:26pm

re: #837 JasonA

*sigh* We've got our work cut out for us with this one.

Someone break out the de-hypnotizer.

Well, it seems to me that I'm being allowed exactly two options here:

1. Never suggest any criticism of Israel ever for anything, no matter how nuanced, or

2. Play the role of "anti-Zionist" moonbat for you.

I'm really not down with either of those.

re: #840 Floral Giraffe

May I, ahem, once again, suggest you think about the
"first rule of holes"?
It's STOP DIGGING, in case you've forgotten.

No wait, there's got to be oil down here somewhere...

But seriously, it's that people keep addressing me while mischaracterizing everything I just said in the last post, so I do feel compelled to clarify in another post. I just seem to be stuck in some sort of weird fractal explanation loop here.

re: #840 Floral Giraffe

You might think about reading for a bit, rather than posting.

Sounds like a fine idea. I'm not very good at shutting up, but if I can find my way out of this "no, what I said was" maze that people keep building around me, I'll give that a shot.

Case in point:

re: #860 Aceofwhat?

Nope. Not once have you explained how Israel's religion have led THEM into a conflict, thus making their further secularization an appealing concept.

... I thought I had been quite clear above in multiple posts saying pretty much the same thing from umpteen angles, and still I get these copy/paste challenges from people trying to stuff me into this straw man outfit. It's itchy and I don't want to wear it, but they keep chasing me around with it.

881 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:51:55pm

re: #879 Obdicut

Okay, that bit is weird. But it makes sense if one holds that being a secular democracy is better than having religion in the government, which i also think is true. And he's been clear that when he's talking about less religious, he means the government, not the people.

That part I'm not willing to castigate him on because A) I agree that secular democracies are preferable to those with religion worked into them and B) he clarified and said he wants the same for all the Arab states, and that it's a pipe dream.

except for the part where the only apparent reason to wish to secularize Israel further is to avoid 'bothering' the neighbors, as opposed to fixing any inherent ailment of Israels. smacks of appeasement so far. it's not out of bounds for discussion here or anything, so Reginald need not fear for his honor, but when stripped bare it smells like appeasement.

882 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:53:28pm

re: #880 elbruce

i do not wish to go around and around. let's do this. tell me the post number that ought to have most clearly answered that question, and i'll go make sure that i read it very carefully. it is not my intent to lead anyone around and around.

883 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:53:46pm

re: #879 Obdicut

Okay, that bit is weird. But it makes sense if one holds that being a secular democracy is better than having religion in the government, which i also think is true. And he's been clear that when he's talking about less religious, he means the government, not the people.

That part I'm not willing to castigate him on because A) I agree that secular democracies are preferable to those with religion worked into them and B) he clarified and said he wants the same for all the Arab states, and that it's a pipe dream.

I should stick to my decision to avoid I/P debates like the plague. I know far less than I should to talk about it intelligently. And it's really fallow ground for joke material, so I'm screwed there too.

884 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:56:05pm

re: #877 Aceofwhat?

i read that as "i lack an excuse to spank her", but that's just me/

I like your interpretation, Sir.
LOL!

885 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:56:41pm

re: #880 elbruce

By the way, a purely technical note: Try replying to each post individually, rather than putting them all in a big post. It works better for other people replying to your post. If you don't, people are going to be tetchy about it.

Furthermore, I don't see how you're being 'allowed' to never display criticism of Israel or be an anti-zionist. I displayed a criticism of Israel above and the world didn't end.

This place really does get anti-Israeli trolls, and people who are quite ignorant on the subject. There really is a profound amount of misconceptions and disinformation spread about Palestine.

When I first got to LGF, on my first day, a real jerk who is now banned accused me of being a tool of the Palestinian Authority-- I forget what position it was I took that he decided I should be lambasted for.

Anyway, the point is: Nobody is really lambasting you, I can't understand your semantic point about Israel but that's fine, and criticism of Israel is perfectly fine, but when you take the position that you're only going to criticize Israel and not the Arab states-- which is not exactly, but is close to what you originally said-- you can expect to take flack for it. I think that's a highly flawed position, for the reasons I've already said; the Palestinians lives will not improve markedly no matter how Israel acts, it will take action on the part of the Arab states.

886 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:57:22pm

re: #882 Aceofwhat?

i do not wish to go around and around. let's do this. tell me the post number that ought to have most clearly answered that question, and i'll go make sure that i read it very carefully. it is not my intent to lead anyone around and around.

I think Obdicut summarized it quite well in #879. You seem to be treating that point as if I said that (only) Israel should have more secularization and (only) to appease its neighbors. I said neither, but the last time I pointed that out, you responded with L

re: #809 Aceofwhat?

au contraire, let's forget that part.

Don't know what else I can do here.

887 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:58:01pm

re: #874 Floral Giraffe

For the first time in a long while, I agree with my longed necked friend.

???


It was a joke, dear.

*smooch*

888 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:58:38pm

re: #881 Aceofwhat?

When you say appeasement I just think of that dude shouting appeasement over and over again.

I think that what ebruce is saying is that if Israel was purely a secular democracy it would remove a talking point from the Arab nations. I think he is mistaken in this, given that I think the Arab nations care about the religion practiced by the people, not held by the state, and they consider secular Jews just as "Jewish" as practicing Jews, but I don't think it's appeasement.

889 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:00:06pm

I should also note that I'm about to start drinking, so y'all can expect me to get a lot less reasonable and peacemakery soon.

890 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:01:56pm

re: #889 Obdicut

I should also note that I'm about to start drinking, so y'all can expect me to get a lot less reasonable and peacemakery soon.

Salud!
What're you going to be drinking?

891 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:02:01pm

re: #889 Obdicut

Is that even possible??

892 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:02:40pm

re: #889 Obdicut

I should also note that I'm about to start drinking, so y'all can expect me to get a lot less reasonable and peacemakery soon.

Oh, I'm front row.

Please, don't stop.

My mantra: knowledge...knowledge.

Keep typing

893 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:03:52pm

re: #890 Floral Giraffe

Salud!
What're you going to be drinking?

A Mission Street Heffivison

894 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:04:04pm

re: #886 elbruce

I think Obdicut summarized it quite well in #879. You seem to be treating that point as if I said that (only) Israel should have more secularization and (only) to appease its neighbors. I said neither, but the last time I pointed that out, you responded with L

re: #809 Aceofwhat?

Don't know what else I can do here.

Well, since you came in last night completely misrepresenting Charles and things he's said over the years while deigning to lecture all of the rest of us about the "history of LGF", maybe you should dial it all back a bit, STFU about things you are patently ignorant of, move on to a different thread, and share some jokes with the rest of the gang.

Windy will still be here to automagically upding you when you decide to come back and post more boneheaded shit about Israel.

895 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:04:45pm

re: #893 Obdicut

A Mission Street Heffivison

Grr. I mean Hefeweizen.

No idea where that misspelling came from.

896 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:05:49pm

re: #895 Obdicut

from oranges. soaked in Hefeweizen.

897 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:05:59pm

re: #894 Cato the Elder

He also manned up and apologized. Which should be worth something.

After all, we all do things and post things that, in retrospect, aren't a great idea, eh?

898 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:07:26pm

re: #894 Cato the Elder

Windy will still be here to automagically upding you when you decide to come back and post more boneheaded shit about Israel.

:P >>

899 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:07:48pm

re: #898 cliffster

:P >>

>>

love it

900 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:08:19pm

re: #889 Obdicut

I should also note that I'm about to start drinking, so y'all can expect me to get a lot less reasonable and peacemakery soon.

Whack Reginald, for me, please?
Gently, though...

901 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:09:21pm

re: #897 Obdicut

He also manned up and apologized. Which should be worth something.

After all, we all do things and post things that, in retrospect, aren't a great idea, eh?

Oh, I've probably never driven off the cliff, but sometimes when I wake up in the a.m. I wonder...

If we come back & converse, there isn't a problem. Until we are called on it.

902 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:09:33pm

re: #900 Floral Giraffe

I stay out of the mutual spanking brigade. I'm shy.

903 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:09:37pm

re: #888 Obdicut

When you say appeasement I just think of that dude shouting appeasement over and over again.

I think that what ebruce is saying is that if Israel was purely a secular democracy it would remove a talking point from the Arab nations. I think he is mistaken in this, given that I think the Arab nations care about the religion practiced by the people, not held by the state, and they consider secular Jews just as "Jewish" as practicing Jews, but I don't think it's appeasement.

I agree, but i strongly believe that it is misplaced from the beginning to put any onus on Israel to remove bigoted 'talking points' from their neighbors. Bigoted talking points shouldn't lead us to ask Israel to change anything, even if they would listen to us. That's all...

904 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:10:13pm

re: #902 Obdicut

I stay out of the mutual spanking brigade. I'm shy.

And a new-wed

905 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:10:31pm

re: #901 Stanley Sea

you owe me a sunflower story, unless its semi-private, in which case you still owe it to me >>

906 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:10:44pm

re: #903 Aceofwhat?

I agree, because I don't think the Arab states are or would negotiate in good faith, anyway. Which is why I think that position is flawed. I don't think it represents a hostility towards Israel, though, which is what I really, in the end, care about.

907 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:11:03pm

re: #902 Obdicut

I stay out of the mutual spanking brigade. I'm shy.

i'm just not a spanker, or a spankee. i'm happy to be in the company of those who are, but...it just doesn't raise my christian flag, ifyouknowhatimean...

908 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:11:07pm

re: #904 Stanley Sea

And a new-wed

I should update my profile here. Thanks for reminding me.

909 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:11:41pm

re: #906 Obdicut

that's the thing, its the misattribution of hostility to Israel that's nonproductive. Save it to the people with a real problem >>

910 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:11:43pm

re: #894 Cato the Elder

Well, since you came in last night completely misrepresenting Charles and things he's said over the years while deigning to lecture all of the rest of us about the "history of LGF", maybe you should dial it all back a bit...

Man, I don't even remember what I was drinking. Fermented asshole juice most likely. Even in my cups I don't usually do that. I'm going to have to get a breathalyzer starter installed in my keyboard (to do list: patent that idea).

re: #894 Cato the Elder

... STFU about things you are patently ignorant of, move on to a different thread, and share some jokes with the rest of the gang.

Windy will still be here to automagically upding you when you decide to come back and post more boneheaded shit about Israel.

Which apparently in your opinion would be anything...

911 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:12:30pm

re: #910 elbruce

See I just have to upding anything you say now ;)

912 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:12:50pm

re: #905 windsagio

get online mofo

913 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:13:22pm

re: #902 Obdicut

I stay out of the mutual spanking brigade. I'm shy.

I am exclusively on the giving side, that is why I was a failure at training Floral.

914 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:14:12pm

re: #907 Aceofwhat?

i'm just not a spanker, or a spankee. i'm happy to be in the company of those who are, but...it just doesn't raise my christian flag, ifyouknowhatimean...

oh..youneverknowtillyougothere

915 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:14:22pm
916 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:14:45pm

re: #913 Reginald Perrin

I am exclusively on the giving side, that is why I was a failure at training Floral.

you're like the Obi-Wan of light bondage/

917 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:15:34pm

re: #916 Aceofwhat?

you're like the Obi-Wan of light bondage/

*spittake* :D


PS: I saw your dan halen clip link upthread but didn't get a chance to respond because my 'net went out when I was typing.

FRICKIN' AWESOME.

918 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:15:59pm

re: #916 Aceofwhat?

you're like the Obi-Wan of light bondage/

He cut off Floral's legs and arm and now she needs a computer to breathe?

You fucker, Perrin!

919 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:16:48pm

re: #914 Stanley Sea

oh..youneverknowtillyougothere

*shrug* been married for 10yrs...tried it.

920 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:17:32pm

re: #917 windsagio

*spittake* :D

PS: I saw your dan halen clip link upthread but didn't get a chance to respond because my 'net went out when I was typing.

FRICKIN' AWESOME.

"overt racism...impressive"

921 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:18:15pm

re: #920 Aceofwhat?

Took me a while to learn to love that show, but... I learned.

922 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:18:48pm

re: #921 windsagio

Took me a while to learn to love that show, but... I learned.

i don't love every episode. but Dan Halen is pure awesomeness.

923 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:19:58pm

re: #913 Reginald Perrin

I am exclusively on the giving side, that is why I was a failure at training Floral.

LOL!
Liar, in the nicest possible way!

924 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:20:13pm

re: #922 Aceofwhat?

Yeah more of him, less hillbilly jokes :D

The monster trucks are good too' (sadly can't find a clip to share)

925 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:20:43pm

There's a lot of spanking, handcuffs, ropes, whatnot around here lately. Especially on weekend nights. wtf is that?

926 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:20:52pm

re: #925 cliffster

remember bunny?

927 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:21:33pm

re: #925 cliffster


Blame WUB >>

928 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:21:44pm

re: #926 cliffster

No, but do tell!

929 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:21:57pm

re: #926 cliffster

remember bunny?

even I remember bunny, and i only read the thread after the fact...

930 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:22:19pm

re: #916 Aceofwhat?

you're like the Obi-Wan of light bondage/

WWho said anything about the bondage being light? I am into moderate, it matches my politics.

931 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:23:20pm

Okay, Dan Halen really is fucking awesome.

932 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:23:37pm

re: #928 windsagio

No, but do tell!

some freak who absolutely lost her shizniggity during one of these slap-and-tickle moments. went on about how it was quasi-rape fantasy, one of the more offensive nuts we've ever had.

933 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:24:11pm

re: #910 elbruce

Man, I don't even remember what I was drinking. Fermented asshole juice most likely. Even in my cups I don't usually do that. I'm going to have to get a breathalyzer starter installed in my keyboard (to do list: patent that idea).

re: #894 Cato the Elder

Which apparently in your opinion would be anything...

Not at all. I have actually updinged several things you've said since you made your presence felt here. As I also do, when warranted, with Windy. Also, I noted and appreciated your apology for last night.

That was then, this is now.

There has been, lately, a notable surge in what I would call "wishful thinking liberals" who have not clue one about the history or current situation in Israel, yet who feel it necessary to take on the rest of the commenters, some of whom have been here for almost a decade, over a subject about which they have a very steep learning curve ahead of them. It's not like we haven't been over all this ground before - it just gets frustrating when a new puddinhead shows up every week with the same sort of nonsense.

And as much as LGF has changed, and changed for the better, since the break with the fascists began, I don't see the typical leftist Israelophobe with his or her "a pox on all their houses" attitude towards things in the Middle East becoming the archetypal Lizard any time soon. Nor do I see your insinuations about how Israel is an insult to Judaism gaining ground here in any significant way.

In fact, it's just not happenin' for you guys, no matter how you band together and upding each other's pseudo-reasonable posts.

934 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:24:18pm

re: #926 cliffster

remember bunny?

That was an EPIC thread!

935 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:24:27pm

re: #930 Reginald Perrin

None of you will ever know what I am 'into'.

I not only want the government to keep their nose out of my bedroom, but everyone else* to do so, too.

So you can rule out being an exhibitionist.

*not everyone, obviously. Those with engraved invitations entertained between 2 and 4, Tuesdays and alternate Thursdays. Please provide own towel.

936 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:24:50pm

re: #930 Reginald Perrin

WWho said anything about the bondage being light? I am into moderate, it matches my politics.

i suspected, but i thought it polite to err on the light side. it seems more civil to have one's proclivities underestimated than overblown, n'est-ce-pas?

937 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:25:46pm

re: #925 cliffster

There's a lot of spanking, handcuffs, ropes, whatnot around here lately. Especially on weekend nights. wtf is that?

boring life

internet salvation?

938 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:26:00pm

re: #935 Obdicut


*not everyone, obviously. Those with engraved invitations entertained between 2 and 4, Tuesdays and alternate Thursdays. Please provide own towel.

Okay, but I'm showing up nekkid.

939 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:26:09pm

re: #932 Aceofwhat?

I hate missing out >

940 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:27:09pm

re: #938 JasonA

Okay, but I'm showing up nekkid.

Ahem. I think you'll find you rather lack an invitation, sir.

My butler, Swordfish, never lets anyone enter without one.

941 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:27:41pm

re: #932 Aceofwhat?

Equated rape with fantasy.
Totally nasty troll.

942 It's a cookbook!  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:27:46pm

re: #940 Obdicut

Ahem. I think you'll find you rather lack an invitation, sir.

My butler, Swordfish, never lets anyone enter without one.

Elitist.

943 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:27:54pm

re: #928 windsagio

No, but do tell!

bunny didn't like bonds.

I was never really into it, but by the end of the night, bunny had my wanting to give it a try

944 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:28:23pm

re: #936 Aceofwhat?

i suspected, but i thought it polite to err on the light side. it seems more civil to have one's proclivities underestimated than overblown, n'est-ce-pas?

Oui

945 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:28:39pm

re: #943 cliffster

Really?
Looks hopefully at the Cliffster...
LOL!

946 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:28:49pm

re: #943 cliffster

Sounds almost like an Andrea Dworkin trip.

947 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:29:32pm

re: #942 JasonA

Elitist.

He's an imaginary butler.

Though my brothers and I met a dude awhile ago, really nice guy named Sean, who, for reasons that are still kind of cloudy, we renamed Swordfish. He sucks as a butler, though, he always gets way drunker than us.

Really nice dude, though.

948 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:29:34pm

re: #933 Cato the Elder

You know Cato, because this tends to occur every once in awhile, it would be really effective if you in the know help bat down the left wing's ignorance with smart concise info.

Here, too often, the rebuttal is insulting, dismissive etc.

There is a problem with the left wing view.

You have the chance to infulence it. Please do.

949 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:29:43pm

re: #931 JasonA

Okay, Dan Halen really is fucking awesome.


exactly

950 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:30:20pm

re: #946 windsagio

Sounds almost like an Andrea Dworkin trip.

I went home with a girl back in college and saw a Dworkin book on the shelf and froze up, and she saw where I was looking and said, "Don't worry, it's for class."

Phew.

951 cliffster  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:30:48pm

re: #945 Floral Giraffe

Really?
Looks hopefully at the Cliffster...
LOL!

FG, you made me blush...

952 windsagio  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:34:31pm

re: #950 Obdicut

I went home with a girl back in college and saw a Dworkin book on the shelf and froze up, and she saw where I was looking and said, "Don't worry, it's for class."

Phew.

bwahahhahaa! That's really great :)

953 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:34:43pm

re: #933 Cato the Elder

There has been, lately, a notable surge in what I would call "wishful thinking liberals" who have not clue one about the history or current situation in Israel, yet who feel it necessary to take on the rest of the commenters, some of whom have been here for almost a decade, over a subject about which they have a very steep learning curve ahead of them.

Just because I haven't been here doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Your statement presupposes that the only place that people can get accurate information on the Israel/Palestinian situation and history is in the comments section at LGF.

re: #933 Cato the Elder

It's not like we haven't been over all this ground before - it just gets frustrating when a new puddinhead shows up every week with the same sort of nonsense.

I don't have much of a better opinion of full blown anti-Zionista moonbats than you do. I'm not going to pretend that Israel isn't doing some things that they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean I don't admit that the Palestinians and nearby Arab states are doing even dumber stuff, or that Israel does a lot of things right.

It's a false choice. There are more than two extreme sides to the issue.

954 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:35:20pm

re: #941 Floral Giraffe

Equated rape with fantasy.
Totally nasty troll.

Indeed. Vile stuff.

I actually wish that i had a wider range of...errr...nighttime fantasies. More options = more variety. But you can't pick the things that float your boat...

955 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 7:36:38pm

re: #940 Obdicut

Ahem. I think you'll find you rather lack an invitation, sir.

My butler, Swordfish, never lets anyone enter without one.

Swordfish?
LOL!
I want a party invite!
Sorta///

956 Ghost of Insanity  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 8:41:09pm

re: #955 Floral Giraffe

Swordfish?
LOL!
I want a party invite!
Sorta///

Better nickname than toothpick I'm sure.

957 zxbe  Sun, Aug 22, 2010 4:24:22pm

But this violates their first amendment rights. Dr. Laura would not be happy.

But seriously (as seriously as one can take this rally), the official facebook page of the event says the missions is: recognize our First Amendment rights and honor the service members who fight to protect those freedoms. How can those poor tea partiers express their first amendment rights without their signs?


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 Frank says:

It's not ordinary and it's not mundane, but it does not involve golden showers and appliances -- talking about his sex life with Gail in 1980.