Former RNC Chair Ken Mehlman: ‘I’m Gay’

Politics • Views: 8,376

Former Bush campaign manager and chairman of the Republican National Committee Ken Mehlman, who helped promote many GOP anti-gay rights initiatives, is out of the closet.

Ken Mehlman, President Bush’s campaign manager in 2004 and a former chairman of the Republican National Committee, has told family and associates that he is gay.

Mehlman arrived at this conclusion about his identity fairly recently, he said in an interview. He agreed to answer a reporter’s questions, he said, because, now in private life, he wants to become an advocate for gay marriage and anticipated that questions would be asked about his participation in a late-September fundraiser for the American Foundation for Equal Rights (AFER), the group that supported the legal challenge to California’s ballot initiative against gay marriage, Proposition 8.

“It’s taken me 43 years to get comfortable with this part of my life,” Mehlman said. “Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I’ve told my family, friends, former colleagues, and current colleagues, and they’ve been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that’s made me a happier and better person. It’s something I wish I had done years ago.” …

Mehlman’s leadership positions in the GOP came at a time when the party was stepping up its�anti-gay activities — such as the distribution in West Virginia in 2006 of literature linking homosexuality to atheism, or the less-than-subtle, coded language in the party’s platform (“Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country…”). Mehlman said at the time that he could not, as an individual Republican, go against the party consensus. He was aware that Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief strategic adviser, had been working with Republicans to make sure that anti-gay initiatives and referenda would appear on November ballots in 2004 and 2006 to help Republicans.

Mehlman acknowledges that if he had publicly declared his sexuality sooner, he might have played a role in keeping the party from pushing an anti-gay agenda.

“It’s a legitimate question and one I understand,” Mehlman said. “I can’t change the fact that I wasn’t in this place personally when I was in politics, and I genuinely regret that. It was very hard, personally.” He asks of those who doubt his sincerity: “If they can’t offer support, at least offer understanding.”

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451 comments
1 skullkrusher  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:05:54pm

it seems as if gay people are everywhere! Someone should let the papers know lest we have an outbreak of atheism, turtle marriages and child molestation!

2 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:06:47pm

I wonder what forced him to make this announcement at this time? Something tells me he’s trying to get out ahead of something, that there’s another shoe left to drop…

3 allegro  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:07:15pm
He asks of those who doubt his sincerity: “If they can’t offer support, at least offer understanding.”

Oh NOW understanding is called for. Though I respect his decision to come out now, where was his compassion then?

4 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:07:20pm

You bastard.

5 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:08:00pm

Woo hoo. Maybe he can undo some of his anti-gay past and make a positive difference.

Rush must be crying, the GOP just lost another Girlie Man to the dark side.

6 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:08:05pm

I’m waiting for Robert Spencer to have a crisis of conscience, come forward with a big “la illaha illah-lah”, and confess that he’s been a seekrit Muslim for years now, working deep undercover to aid Al Qaeda in a big push to step up bigotry in this country and subvert the efforts of moderate Muslims, in order to speed the Islamist Takeover of This Great Nation.

7 aagcobb  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:08:24pm

Are there any anti-gay activists on the Right who aren’t closeted queers?

8 Alecto  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:08:47pm

Does this make him a RINO?

9 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:09:00pm

I have a pretty good feeling about this.

10 thatthatisis  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:10:54pm

Considering the current climate, the Republican Party is probably relieved he’s only gay, and not a secret Muslim.

11 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:11:16pm

Classy for him (I mean that seriously) most of the time when we learn about how major GOP players are Gay it’s only because they get caught on tape… or in an airport restroom stall…

12 Jack Burton  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #7 aagcobb

Are there any anti-gay activists on the Right who aren’t closeted queers?

I’m starting to think no. At least when it comes to the loudest ones and leaders of groups of them. Well adjusted straight people, even those not all that comfortable with homosexuality, tend to not give that much of a shit about gays to become single issue broken record rage boys like these people are.

13 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:12:31pm

re: #3 allegro

Oh NOW understanding is called for. Though I respect his decision to come out now, where was his compassion then?

///Well you see its okay to help oppress a minority as long as you aren’t a member of said minority.

14 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:13:58pm

re: #8 Alecto

Does this make him a RINO?

No it makes him a ROOBO Republican Out Of Bed Only…

(Wouldn’t have posted this bad joke except that the anagram actually came out to something worth posting…)

15 allegro  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:15:17pm

re: #13 jamesfirecat

///Well you see its okay to help oppress a minority as long as you aren’t a member of said minority.

An yet he was indeed a member of said minority… though he hadn’t realized it yet… riiiiiight. I guess he just woke up one morning a couple of weeks ago and went “holy shit!! I’m gay!”

16 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:15:38pm

I wanted to see how old he is (44), so I looked at Wiki:

CNN transcript controversy

Comedian Bill Maher referred to Mehlman as a closeted gay man in a November 8, 2006, appearance on CNN’s Larry King Live. It became a controversy when CNN edited out Maher’s comments in later taped editions of the appearance and removed the reference to Mehlman’s sexuality from the transcript of the show. Faced with prior rumors of his sexuality, Mehlman denied that he was gay in May 2006. “I’m not gay,” Mehlman told the New York Daily News, “but those stories did a number on my dating life for six months.”[17] Mehlman announced he would step down from his Chairman post the day after Maher’s appearance (although reports said that his resignation had been expected for some time).[18] It is reported that Mehlman is now coming out of the closet August 27, 2010 in an article for The Atlantic written by Mark Ambinder.[19]

17 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:15:42pm

It is a tragedy that he had to live with his secret for so long. It is a bigger tragedy for him and his family.

Left or right, too many gays have been forced into the closet to lead lives of desperation and sadness, by way of bias both overt and sublime.

This is no way for any of God’s creations to have to live.

18 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:15:50pm

He doesn’t understand why gay voters don’t make cause with the GOP because of Islamic jihad? Ken, when your party’s biggest faces are guys like the Reverends Falwell and Robertson who said on TV after 9-11 that this happened because we tolerate gays and lesbians, gay voters aren’t going to gravitate towards that party nor will they gravitate a party that used gay marriage opposition to win re-election for its candidates. I’m glad that the guy is able to feel open about who he is but I think he’s clueless to why gay voters by and large are skeptical of the Republican party.

19 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:16:33pm

re: #8 Alecto

Does this make him a RINO?

Nope. A GUYRO.

Gay, Uncloseted Young Republican Outcast.

20 Dante41  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:16:46pm

Good for him to have the courage to come out of the closet, especially seeing as who he was. It takes alot of courage to do it publicly, and I wish him luck in his sexuality not hindering his life nor destroying any relationships he has with his family and friends.

That said, you are still a major asshole Ken for being so anti-Gay Rights in the past. Maybe now you’ll have some understanding of the troubles that those you fought so hard against before have. Maybe now you can try to undo the hate you have sowed, and undo the damage you have done.

21 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:18:08pm

Yeah, I’m really glad he’s out. It’s his personal choice.

What I can’t quite stomach though, is how his previous work has hurt so many. This is a tough thing to reconcile.

Arbinder says in the article “Mehlman recently moved to Chelsea, a gay mecca in New York City.” Well maybe he’ll have fun now.

22 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:20:14pm

re: #21 Stanley Sea

And it really pisses you off when you read how carefully orchestrated the whole anti-gay bullshit has been from the GOP, much like the incestuous relationship with the religious right. I resent the hell out of it. They can bite me.

23 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:20:18pm

re: #3 allegro

Oh NOW understanding is called for. Though I respect his decision to come out now, where was his compassion then?

In his bank’s vault, wearing a ball gag, restraints and leathers, waiting for him to “make it rain.”

24 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:20:59pm

How does this matter either way?

25 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:21:08pm
26 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:22:17pm

Oh crap, I did not just say that out loud.

27 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:23:17pm

re: #26 Racer X

Oh crap, I did not just say that out loud.

oh I could just eat him up. wait

28 Dante41  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #26 Racer X

No, you typed it on the internet, which is about ten times worse.

29 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:24:28pm

re: #24 Centrist

How does this matter either way?

Cause its another highlight of how at times the GOP seems to be all but founded upon Hypocrisy as long as its in bed (missionary position only of course) with the “religious right” which wants things no true “conservative” should like the government deciding what kind of buildings of worship you can build on your own private property, what women can do with their own bodies, and who should or shouldn’t be allowed to marry.

As long as the Socons have a strangle hold on the GOP it is a party at war with what it claims to stand for…

30 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:24:48pm

re: #26 Racer X

Oh crap, I did not just say that out loud.

You’re hosed dude.

31 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:24:58pm

re: #11 jamesfirecat

Classy for him (I mean that seriously) most of the time when we learn about how major GOP players are Gay it’s only because they get caught on tape… or in an airport restroom stall…

I agree. The more respectable gay republicans we can keep around, the faster we can get this silly hang-up in the rearview mirror…

32 joest73  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:25:09pm

Oh Dear! Did a google image search and found this link:

“He’s been on the gerbil wheel, as one of his close friends put it, for well in excess of six years now and he’s tired.”

On the gerbil wheel? Funny if you liked “Arrested Development”.

33 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:25:37pm

re: #28 Dante41

No, you typed it on the internet, which is about ten times worse.

It does explain the bondage mask his avatar wears.

34 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:25:53pm

re: #25 Racer X

Uh oh. Has the bad GOP hard looking side part combover. He’s in need of some manscaping.

35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:26:00pm

The lesson I hope anti gay people can learn from Mehlman’s story is that gay people can be anyone. They can be your neighbor and in Ken’s case the chairman of a political party. They’re human beings not some twisted stereotype carnicture. I would honestly gain a lot of respect for the Republican party if they ditched the religious right. They obviously won’t since they’re so vital to their base of support but the religious right to me is one of the nastiest elements in contemporary American politics. You have people who sincerely believe that gay people should be treated like 2nd class citizens.

36 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:26:27pm

re: #34 theheat

Uh oh. Has the bad GOP hard looking side part combover. He’s in need of some manscaping.

eh, the boys in Chelsea will make him over;)

37 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:27:39pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You’re hosed dude.

NTTAWWT

38 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:27:57pm

re: #35 HappyWarrior

the religious right to me is one of the nastiest elements in contemporary American politics of humanity.

FTFY

39 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:28:38pm

re: #24 Centrist

How does this matter either way?

Imagine if the crazy lady who runs PETA got caught eating a bloody Porterhouse.

The word you’re looking for here is “hypocrisy.” And it ain’t the first time by a loooong shot.

Connect the dots: everybody who’s in charge of the anti-gay movement in America is ___ [fill in the blank]

40 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:29:06pm

re: #38 theheat

FTFY

Yeah, the Taliban have nothing on the evangelicals.

//

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:29:25pm

re: #1 skullkrusher

it seems as if gay people are everywhere! Someone should let the papers know lest we have an outbreak of atheism, turtle marriages and child molestation!

‘Turtle marriages’ reminded me…last year, for their Christian Service Day, my class ended up doing a bunch of gardening for a local church. There were snails in the stuff we were spreading on the flower beds. I thought the girls would get grossed out. Instead, they began to collect them, pair them up, and create imaginary romances for them.

Another kid, passing by, commented, “They’re hermaphroditic. Why are you putting them in boy-girl couples?”

42 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:29:39pm

So we can assume he’ll be going to Homocon?

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:30:08pm

re: #7 aagcobb

Are there any anti-gay activists on the Right who aren’t closeted queers?

It seems, statistically speaking, that there must be.

44 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #38 theheat

FTFY

cheers on your highly sheltered life. i’d have put machete-wielding Somalis or genocidally-minded Serbs a notch ahead of the ‘religious right’, but hey…

45 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:30:12pm

Good for him, being in the closet must have been a real strain on his true self. I maybe a former Republican but I have never agreed with the way the conservative right has treated the gay community. Even the wild beasts whom are innocent of “sin” have lifetime partners that are same sex. Yes, they are few and far between, but it occurs in nature more often than the right would like to admit. Funny how the conservative right ignores that fact, isn’t it?

46 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:30:31pm

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It does explain the bondage mask his avatar wears.

Don’t tell anyone - but my safe word is “Trixie”.

Not gonna say why. Nope. I’d get in big trouble.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:09pm

re: #11 jamesfirecat

Classy for him (I mean that seriously) most of the time when we learn about how major GOP players are Gay it’s only because they get caught on tape… or in an airport restroom stall…

True, this is probably, so far, one of the classiest political comings-out to date.

Waiting a couple of weeks, though, before I assume some scandal is not pushing him out.

48 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:13pm

re: #44 Aceofwhat?

i’d have put machete-wielding Somalis or genocidally-minded Serbs a notch ahead of the ‘religious right’, but hey…

I’d call them “religious right,” just of other countries.

49 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:25pm

I’m getting a very strong smell of socks. Anyone else?

50 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:38pm

re: #45 Dragon_Lady

Good for him, being in the closet must have been a real strain on his true self. I maybe a former Republican but I have never agreed with the way the conservative right has treated the gay community. Even the wild beasts whom are innocent of “sin” have lifetime partners that are same sex. Yes, they are few and far between, but it occurs in nature more often than the right would like to admit. Funny how the conservative right ignores that fact, isn’t it?

You’re not comparing Man, the Crown of Creation, to animals, are you?

Because I ain’t related to no queer monkey!

51 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:49pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

It seems, statistically speaking, that there must be.

And whoever that guy is, he’s got to be seriously questioning his own sexuality by now…

52 skullkrusher  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:31:55pm

re: #13 jamesfirecat

///Well you see its okay to help oppress a minority as long as you aren’t a member of said minority.

it’s ok to oppress a minority if no one knows you are a member of said minority.

53 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:32:00pm

re: #46 Racer X

Don’t tell anyone - but my safe word is “Trixie”.

Not gonna say why. Nope. I’d get in big trouble.

You are really funny today! Keep up the good work! ;)

54 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:32:19pm

re: #48 elbruce

I’d call them “religious right,” just of other countries.

good grief

55 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:32:28pm

re: #50 Cato the Elder

Because I ain’t related to no queer monkey!

Let’s see the birth certificate. /

56 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:32:29pm

He can take his call for understanding and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.

So congrats Ken, on coming out. Grab a cocktail (no pun intended) and celebrate. THEN find a way to repent for your wicked anti-gay ways.

57 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:32:56pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

‘Turtle marriages’ reminded me…last year, for their Christian Service Day, my class ended up doing a bunch of gardening for a local church. There were snails in the stuff we were spreading on the flower beds. I thought the girls would get grossed out. Instead, they began to collect them, pair them up, and create imaginary romances for them.

Another kid, passing by, commented, “They’re hermaphroditic. Why are you putting them in boy-girl couples?”

Maybe I shouldn’t ask, but how can you tell the difference between a boy snail and a girl snail?

58 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:33:03pm

re: #40 researchok

In many respects, they’re quite similar. They have similar goals, and those goals are to run roughshod over anyone who isn’t like them. Sometimes fatally. Fred Phelps ring any bells? Jerry Falwell? Scott Roeder? Dove Institute?

59 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:33:11pm

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

good grief

Well I don’t know about Somalis, but definitely the Serbs, yeah.

60 skullkrusher  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:33:25pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

‘Turtle marriages’ reminded me…last year, for their Christian Service Day, my class ended up doing a bunch of gardening for a local church. There were snails in the stuff we were spreading on the flower beds. I thought the girls would get grossed out. Instead, they began to collect them, pair them up, and create imaginary romances for them.

Another kid, passing by, commented, “They’re hermaphroditic. Why are you putting them in boy-girl couples?”

hehe, that’s great

61 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:33:44pm

re: #49 Charles

I’m getting a very strong smell of socks. Anyone else?

it was more of a faint whiff for me…but your nose is better than mine. and now that you mention it…

62 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:34:03pm

re: #50 Cato the Elder

You’re not comparing Man, the Crown of Creation, to animals, are you?

Because I ain’t related to no queer monkey!

Who me? Would I do that? But we are all creations of a single God, man and animal alike. Why shouldn’t we have the same proclivities as the beasts of the fields and forests?

63 Dante41  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:34:09pm

re: #57 Alouette

Maybe I shouldn’t ask, but how can you tell the difference between a boy snail and a girl snail?


Oh, that’s easy. The boys wear ball caps, and the girls wear bows. Duh.

64 deranged cat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:34:10pm

re: #32 joest73

“Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands.”

65 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:34:44pm

re: #57 Alouette

Maybe I shouldn’t ask, but how can you tell the difference between a boy snail and a girl snail?

Offer to take it shoe shopping?

66 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:35:38pm

re: #46 Racer X

Don’t tell anyone - but my safe word is “Trixie”.

Not gonna say why. Nope. I’d get in big trouble.

Something to do with Hobbits is my bet.

Tricksy little hobbitses they is.

67 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:36:03pm

re: #58 theheat

In many respects, they’re quite similar. They have similar goals, and those goals are to run roughshod over anyone who isn’t like them. Sometimes fatally. Fred Phelps ring any bells? Jerry Falwell? Scott Roeder? Dove Institute?

I haven’t seen many evangelicals gang rape women as a form of punishment or cut off ears, noses or condone FGM.

Fred Phelps is a pig but is no way representative of the Christian/evangelical movement.

68 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:36:25pm

re: #49 Charles

I’m getting a very strong smell of socks. Anyone else?

I’ve got a sinus infection so I can’t really smell much at the moment. ;) You are the king of the puppet sniffers though, if you smell socks then there must be some about…

69 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:36:31pm

re: #59 elbruce

Well I don’t know about Somalis, but definitely the Serbs, yeah.

So, if i crossed out “religious right” above and inserted “atheist” instead, you’d be cool with that, right? I mean, it’s not any more or less accurate…

70 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:37:20pm

re: #65 elbruce

Offer to take it shoe shopping?

LOL! That was good! I’ll have to remember that one! :)

71 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:37:21pm

re: #65 elbruce

Offer to take it shoe shopping?

eh. i love shoes. and i’m definitely a dude. but +1 for funny…

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:37:31pm

re: #12 ArchangelMichael

I’m starting to think no. At least when it comes to the loudest ones and leaders of groups of them. Well adjusted straight people, even those not all that comfortable with homosexuality, tend to not give that much of a shit about gays to become single issue broken record rage boys like these people are.

The straight men I know, regardless of political or religious beliefs, don’t want to spend that much time thinking about what gay men do in bed. (Or, you know, on the patio, or in the backseat of their friend’s car, or whatever.)

So I’m always suspicious about these guys who appear to have memorized the whole of The Joy of Gay Sex for denouncing purposes.

73 deranged cat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:38:04pm

re: #39 elbruce

“hypocrites” is the first word i think of when someone says republican party/GOP. It defines their current state.

74 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:38:08pm

re: #24 Centrist

How does this matter either way?

so are you still waiting for an answer, or did you figure this one out yet?

75 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:38:46pm

Time to repeat my usual comment

Repression is 9/10ths of their flaw.

76 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:38:53pm
Imagine if the crazy lady who runs PETA got caught eating a bloody Porterhouse.

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

77 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:38:57pm

re: #67 researchok

I haven’t seen many evangelicals gang rape women as a form of punishment or cut off ears, noses or condone FGM.

Fred Phelps is a pig but is no way representative of the Christian/evangelical movement.

Sentence one: holds up some of the worst instances of Muslim-related incidents as some sort of an example.

Sentence two: separates some of the worst instances of Christian-related incidents from Christianity.

It would be reasonable to say that the worst practices/forms/instances of any major religion aren’t representative of the religion, instead of trying to have that for some while denying it to others.

78 deranged cat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:39:10pm

re: #74 Aceofwhat?

pretty sure re: #49 Charles was referring to him.

79 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:39:32pm

Yep. Dirty foot mitten alert, incoming…

80 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:39:37pm

re: #75 PT Barnum

Time to repeat my usual comment

Repression is 9/10ths of their flaw.

If that hasn’t been made into a rotating title yet then there is no justice in this world.

81 theheat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:39:54pm

re: #67 researchok

I’ve seen plenty of evangelicals and their groups call for death and blame the ills of society for not conforming to their fundie views. They’d like nothing more than for America to live under their faith. And these people wield a lot of power politically. The GOP panders to some of the most fringe religious groups out there.

82 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:40:08pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

‘Turtle marriages’

The mention of this reminds me of this blog, Box Turtle Bulletin, with origins from this explanation.

83 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:40:21pm

re: #78 deranged cat

pretty sure re: #49 Charles was referring to him.

CJ has been at this for quite some time…he has, shall we say…’heightened senses’…

84 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:40:23pm

re: #69 Aceofwhat?

So, if i crossed out “religious right” above and inserted “atheist” instead, you’d be cool with that, right? I mean, it’s not any more or less accurate…

Huh? How is it more accurate. The Serbian genocidal freaks are definitely not atheists. They’re Orthodox.

85 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:40:36pm

re: #76 Centrist

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

Really?

“Person who is in charge of opposing behavior X engages in behavior X.” How would that not be the same?

86 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:41:24pm

re: #76 Centrist

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

It would come pretty darned close though. The crazy lady who runs PETA is extremely passionate about freeing the goldfish.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:41:31pm

re: #57 Alouette

Maybe I shouldn’t ask, but how can you tell the difference between a boy snail and a girl snail?

There is no such thing as a boy or girl snail, IIRC. They’re all just snails. And a snail can get pregnant by itself, or with another snail.

(I looked this up after the kid mentioned it. I don’t actually know that much about the sex lives of small invertebrates, normally.)

88 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:41:41pm

re: #69 Aceofwhat?

So, if i crossed out “religious right” above and inserted “atheist” instead, you’d be cool with that, right? I mean, it’s not any more or less accurate…

There isn’t a belief system in history - religious, political or economic - that isn’t responsible for uncounted horrific brutality. If someone points fingers, they’re going to get fingers pointed back.

89 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:42:22pm

re: #50 Cato the Elder

You’re not comparing Man, the Crown of Creation, to animals, are you?

Because I ain’t related to no queer monkey!

Swan? Tiger? Lion? And quite a few others I could mention… ;)

90 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:42:36pm

re: #88 elbruce

There isn’t a belief system in history - religious, political or economic - that isn’t responsible for uncounted horrific brutality. If someone points fingers, they’re going to get fingers pointed back.

Quite fair. I was only pointing back at the heat…but i agree completely with you here.

91 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:42:49pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Not all snails, but garden snails are.

92 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:42:50pm

re: #80 JasonA

If that hasn’t been made into a rotating title yet then there is no justice in this world.

Charles won’t meet my royalty demands

1 karma point per use

:)

93 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:01pm

re: #84 Obdicut

Huh? How is it more accurate. The Serbian genocidal freaks are definitely not atheists. They’re Orthodox.

Bruce got me in 88.

94 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:32pm

re: #90 Aceofwhat?

Quite fair. I was only pointing back at the heat…but i agree completely with you here.

Amend that - I don’t have any dirt on the Buddhists yet, but they’ve got to be up to something…

95 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:35pm

re: #77 elbruce

Sentence one: holds up some of the worst instances of Muslim-related incidents as some sort of an example.

Sentence two: separates some of the worst instances of Christian-related incidents from Christianity.

It would be reasonable to say that the worst practices/forms/instances of any major religion aren’t representative of the religion, instead of trying to have that for some while denying it to others.


You made the remark that the American religious right were among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’- a remark that is spectacularly absurd on many levels.

Further, some of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’ belong to no religion whatsoever.

96 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:50pm

re: #76 Centrist

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

hell, i thought it was darn close, and i’m the sort who’s apt to tell Elbruce when he’s wrong…(oh yes i did/)

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:44:50pm

re: #76 Centrist

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

That’s true.

The lady from PETA may be a hypocrite, but anyone who wants to can be a vegetarian and wear leather-free shoes.

Not everyone can be straight.

98 joest73  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:44:53pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

The straight men I know, regardless of political or religious beliefs, don’t want to spend that much time thinking about what gay men do in bed. (Or, you know, on the patio, or in the backseat of their friend’s car, or whatever.)

So I’m always suspicious about these guys who appear to have memorized the whole of The Joy of Gay Sex for denouncing purposes.

Reminds me of the Poker scene from Loiue on FX:
Jump to 1:35

99 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:45:03pm

re: #92 PT Barnum

Charles won’t meet my royalty demands

1 karma point per use

:)

Is a man not entitled…?

100 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:45:13pm

re: #94 elbruce

Amend that - I don’t have any dirt on the Buddhists yet, but they’ve got to be up to something…

Agreed. Those robes…you just don’t wear those if you’re not hatching some sort of evil plot.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:45:14pm

re: #94 elbruce

Amend that - I don’t have any dirt on the Buddhists yet, but they’ve got to be up to something…

The Japanese Empire during WWII was Zen Buddhist.

102 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:45:46pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s true.

The lady from PETA may be a hypocrite, but anyone who wants to can be a vegetarian and wear leather-free shoes.

Not everyone can be straight.

you can have my leather Cole Haans when you pry them from my cold, dead hands;)

103 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:45:59pm

re: #101 Obdicut

The Japanese Empire during WWII was Zen Buddhist.

not Shinto?

104 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:46:04pm

re: #101 Obdicut

The Japanese Empire during WWII was Zen Buddhist.

I thought they were Jewish.

105 Donna Ballard  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:46:14pm

Later Lizardom, Keep Smiling!

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:46:24pm

re: #82 eclectic infidel

The mention of this reminds me of this blog, Box Turtle Bulletin, with origins from this explanation.

“It does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle.”

That sounds like the opening line to a REALLY good short story.

107 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:46:55pm

re: #100 Aceofwhat?

Agreed. Those robes…you just don’t wear those if you’re not hatching some sort of evil plot.

Cambodia? No?

108 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:00pm

re: #95 researchok

You made the remark that the American religious right were among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’- a remark that is spectacularly absurd on many levels.

I’d put the current crop of vitriolic evangelical Christians in the same trash bin as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, certain Ultra-Orthodox Jews, etc. Every religion is a population, and ever population statistically has its share of assholes (so do atheists). None of them are immune, although the nature of religion itself seems to involve a promise of some kind of inoculation from assholeness.

109 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:07pm

re: #76 Centrist

It’s not the same and you know it, “elbruce.”

What’s the dif?

110 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:27pm

bbl dinner

111 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:35pm

re: #66 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Something to do with Hobbits is my bet.

Tricksy little hobbitses they is.

Sigh.

Racer X. Trixie. This isn’t a tough one. (shakes head) These kids today…

At least his safe word isn’t Chim-Chim.

112 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:53pm

The man was a campaign manager and you people are getting your panties all wadded up over a nobody, a has been. Priorities…

113 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:47:58pm

Oh noes! The bottom of the barrel wingnut bloggers are all outraged at me again. Demanding that I apologize to the shrieking harpy, of all things. What will they think next?

114 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:48:06pm

“Senator, I have reviewed this pornographic video 127 times now, and I can attest to it’s content as being pure degenerate homoerotic filth. In fact, if you don’t mind, I think I’m going to go watch it again just to be sure.”

115 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:48:09pm

re: #95 researchok

You made the remark that the American religious right were among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’- a remark that is spectacularly absurd on many levels.

Further, some of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’ belong to no religion whatsoever.

Any group that believes that everyone else should live according to that group’s dictates qualifies as a nasty element. I don’t see a lot of atheists trying to force non atheists to be atheists.

116 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:48:29pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

The lady from PETA may be a hypocrite, but anyone who wants to can be a vegetarian and wear leather-free shoes.

Not everyone can be straight.

My feelings about bacon border on counting as a sexual orientation.

117 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:48:37pm

re: #107 JasonA

Scratch that. What I get for assuming…

118 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:49:36pm

re: #111 AntonSirius

Sigh.

Racer X. Trixie. This isn’t a tough one. (shakes head) These kids today…

At least his safe word isn’t Chim-Chim.

I’m deliberately ignoring his statements in favor of my own preconceived notions.

119 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:49:37pm

re: #112 Centrist

The man was a campaign manager and you people are getting your panties all wadded up over a nobody, a has been. Priorities…

Newt… Palin… Huckabee… Does the GOP have anybody who isn’t a has-been?

120 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:49:40pm

re: #108 elbruce

I’d put the current crop of vitriolic evangelical Christians in the same trash bin as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, certain Ultra-Orthodox Jews, etc.

That’s a bold statement. Wrong, but bold nonetheless.

121 joest73  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:49:46pm

re: #112 Centrist

The man was a campaign manager and you people are getting your panties all wadded up over a nobody, a has been. Priorities…

Yea… but I take Ken back as the head of the RNC today over Michael Steele.

122 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:06pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s true.

The lady from PETA may be a hypocrite, but anyone who wants to can be a vegetarian and wear leather-free shoes.

Not everyone can be straight.

Excellent point SFZ.

123 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:08pm

re: #115 PT Barnum

I don’t see a lot of atheists trying to force non atheists to be atheists.

You hear ‘em on a lot of message boards.

124 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:13pm
Mehlman acknowledges that if he had publicly declared his sexuality sooner, he might have played a role in keeping the party from pushing an anti-gay agenda.

No, Mel…the bigots that were then ascending to the top of the GOP power structure would have run you out of town on a rail.

/the GOP apparently only wants gay Republicans for their money, but if they get too uppity…

125 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:15pm

re: #111 AntonSirius

Sigh.

Racer X. Trixie. This isn’t a tough one. (shakes head) These kids today…

At least his safe word isn’t Chim-Chim.

Don’t judge me!

126 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:22pm

re: #108 elbruce

I’d put the current crop of vitriolic evangelical Christians in the same trash bin as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, certain Ultra-Orthodox Jews, etc. Every religion is a population, and ever population statistically has its share of assholes (so do atheists). None of them are immune, although the nature of religion itself seems to involve a promise of some kind of inoculation from assholeness.

Please cite for me the ‘equal record’ of Christian and/or Jewish fundamentalists that have an similar track record of violence, rape and murder directed at gays, women and other religious minorities.

127 Jack Burton  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:32pm

re: #113 Charles

Oh noes! The bottom of the barrel wingnut bloggers are all outraged at me again. Demanding that I apologize to the shrieking harpy, of all things. What will they think next?

What are you supposed to say? “I’m sorry you are a batshit crazy bigot who can’t spell.”

128 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:35pm

re: #95 researchok

You made the remark that the American religious right were among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’- a remark that is spectacularly absurd on many levels.

Well, it’s subjective. But I do think that people who live in the US, with all its richness, all its positive cultural values, its tradition of secular government, its firm commitment to freedom of religion, and the exposure to education and access to information, and still choose to be insane bigots— they’re definitely nastier than some Somali guy who’s been brought up in ignorance and taught to fear witches his whole life.

Of course, this is part of why some on the religious right try to limit their children’s interaction with the larger world— so they don’t become too tolerant.

It depends what your view of ‘nastiest’ is, I suppose. I think the Nazis were nastier than the Mongols, even though the Mongols killed more people.

129 joest73  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:48pm

re: #119 elbruce

Newt… Palin… Huckabee… Does the GOP have anybody who isn’t a has-been?

Paul Ryan is a young star…. that is getting silenced by the “leaders” of the party.

130 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:50:51pm

re: #123 elbruce

You hear ‘em on a lot of message boards.

Are they telling people that they can’t go to church or believe in God or shouldn’t?

131 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:51:32pm

re: #112 Centrist

The man was a campaign manager and you people are getting your panties all wadded up over a nobody, a has been. Priorities…

We’re not getting our panties in a bunch, we’re just pointing out that this is yet another sign of the rampant hypocrisy that seems to be taking over the GOP lock stock and barrel so long as they submit to the will of the Socons…

132 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:51:41pm

re: #120 Racer X

That’s a bold statement. Wrong, but bold nonetheless.

“The intolerant assholes of this religion are better than the intolerant assholes of the other religion!”

*sigh*

Ten out of ten times, the person saying that is one of the intolerant assholes. And that’s the exact same thing the other religion’s intolerant assholes are saying about you.

133 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:51:50pm
I’d put the current crop of vitriolic evangelical Christians in the same trash bin as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, certain Ultra-Orthodox Jews, etc.

Couldn’t you have found a bigger brush to paint with?

134 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:52:18pm

re: #108 elbruce

You should seriously separate it from religion, that’s not the point. It’s a good excuse sometimes, but the origins are elsewhere.

PS: What’s up with the centrists “Finger Quotes”?

135 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:52:43pm

re: #115 PT Barnum

Any group that believes that everyone else should live according to that group’s dictates qualifies as a nasty element. I don’t see a lot of atheists trying to force non atheists to be atheists.

No, but you do find a lot of atheists who mock those who aren’t. Think Bill Maher. I’ve come to realize that belief isn’t a choice, so it seems childish to me now. Of course, I am childish, so I can’t rule out myself partaking every now and then…

136 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:52:47pm

re: #132 elbruce

“The intolerant assholes of this religion are better than the intolerant assholes of the other religion!”

*sigh*

Ten out of ten times, the person saying that is one of the intolerant assholes. And that’s the exact same thing the other religion’s intolerant assholes are saying about you.

I vote this for thread winner

137 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:53:36pm

re: #132 elbruce

“The intolerant assholes of this religion are better than the intolerant assholes of the other religion!”

*sigh*

Ten out of ten times, the person saying that is one of the intolerant assholes. And that’s the exact same thing the other religion’s intolerant assholes are saying about you.

I’d put the Taliban in a class of their own. Ass. Holes.

138 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:53:47pm

re: #115 PT Barnum

Any group that believes that everyone else should live according to that group’s dictates qualifies as a nasty element. I don’t see a lot of atheists trying to force non atheists to be atheists.

Na, they’r emore into mocking and thinking their shit don’t stink :p

139 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:53:57pm

re: #135 JasonA

No, but you do find a lot of atheists who mock those who aren’t. Think Bill Maher. I’ve come to realize that belief isn’t a choice, so it seems childish to me now. Of course, I am childish, so I can’t rule out myself partaking every now and then…

Mocking is not the same as wanting federal law to reinforce your own prejudices.

140 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:54:10pm

re: #138 windsagio

This is where I say ‘atheism is really just another religion anyways’ and derail the whole damn thread once and for all.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:54:31pm

re: #137 Racer X

I’d put the Taliban in a class of their own. Ass. Holes.

No, I have one of those, and it’s never killed anyone.

142 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:54:49pm

re: #138 windsagio

Na, they’r emore into mocking and thinking their shit don’t stink :p

I can handle mocking. I don’t like the idea of someone trying to force me to act according to their particular beliefs if I don’t share them.

143 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:00pm

re: #126 researchok

Please cite for me the ‘equal record’ of Christian and/or Jewish fundamentalists that have an similar track record of violence, rape and murder directed at gays, women and other religious minorities.

Never claimed an equal record. I’m claiming a similarity of attitude in every respect that matters.

I’m not going to get into the “body count” game. Nobody ends up looking good in that one. If I pull up 100 horrific instances from religion A but 200 from religion B, what does that say? That religion A is good?

(except for them sneaky Buddhists…)

144 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:20pm

My mind has just been blown;

The entire TV series of Gilligan’s Isle was about the 7 Deadly Sins

Gilligan - Gluttony, food was his entire motivation for any action
Ginger - Lust, everything was about her looks
Mr. Howell - Greed, everything was about money
Mrs. Howell - Sloth, all she did was lay around, complain and never helped
MaryAnn - Envy, all her hard work and the men of the island always went for Ginger
Skipper - Anger, his treatment of his crew
The Professor - Pride, who despite making a radio out of coconuts, couldn’t fix a 2’ hole in a boat.

145 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:23pm

re: #140 windsagio

This is where I say ‘atheism is really just another religion anyways’ and derail the whole damn thread once and for all.

Why would you want to say something that’s so easily disproved and boringly untrue?

146 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:30pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I have one of those, and it’s never killed anyone.


I’m in a library - stop it!!!

147 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:50pm

re: #142 PT Barnum

Who does?

148 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:55:57pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I have one of those, and it’s never killed anyone.

That you know of….

/hrmmmm

149 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:56:43pm

For purposes of blaming belief systems, you can add atheism, capitalism, communism, mercantilism, and everything up to (and probably including) belief in the tooth fairy.

150 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:56:45pm

re: #145 Obdicut

Why would you want to say something that’s so easily disproved and boringly untrue?

because its’ neither :p

Its just so deeply important to people to believe that, that they can’t clearly think about it otherwise.

We’re all the same, and just about all belief systems think they’re the ones that are right, and the others are poor deluded fools.

151 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:12pm

re: #137 Racer X

I’d put the Taliban in a class of their own. Ass. Holes.

Islamic exceptionalism…?

152 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:16pm

re: #139 PT Barnum

Mocking is not the same as wanting federal law to reinforce your own prejudices.

I wrote a story in college (think I still have it) that’s a snap shot of what America would be like if atheism was considered the norm.

Think I still have it to, anybody want to see it?

153 AntonSirius  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:16pm

re: #113 Charles

Oh noes! The bottom of the barrel wingnut bloggers are all outraged at me again. Demanding that I apologize to the shrieking harpy, of all things. What will they think next?

At this point, you should really be apologizing to harpies for lumping them in with her.

154 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:24pm

Humans are bad, mmkay?

155 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:26pm

re: #149 elbruce

For purposes of blaming belief systems, you can add atheism, capitalism, communism, mercantilism, and everything up to (and probably including) belief in the tooth fairy.

Praise Santa!

156 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:58:43pm

re: #152 jamesfirecat

I wrote a story in college (think I still have it) that’s a snap shot of what America would be like if atheism was considered the norm.

Think I still have it to, anybody want to see it?

email it to me via my webpage address

157 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:58:50pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My mind has just been blown;

The entire TV series of Gilligan’s Isle was about the 7 Deadly Sins

Gilligan - Gluttony, food was his entire motivation for any action
Ginger - Lust, everything was about her looks
Mr. Howell - Greed, everything was about money
Mrs. Howell - Sloth, all she did was lay around, complain and never helped
MaryAnn - Envy, all her hard work and the men of the island always went for Ginger
Skipper - Anger, his treatment of his crew
The Professor - Pride, who despite making a radio out of coconuts, couldn’t fix a 2’ hole in a boat.

Why does this make so much sense?

/more hrmmmm

158 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:59:28pm

re: #155 windsagio

Praise Santa!


[Video]

I knew a dyslexic devil worshipper that sold his soul to Santa

159 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:59:43pm

re: #150 windsagio

because its’ neither :p

Its just so deeply important to people to believe that, that they can’t clearly think about it otherwise.

We’re all the same, and just about all belief systems think they’re the ones that are right, and the others are poor deluded fools.

Atheism isn’t a belief system.

I’m an atheist. I don’t spend any time or effort not believing in supernatural things. It in no way, at all, in any way, shape, or form, resembles a religion.

I don’t think people who are religious are poor deluded fools. I pretty much hold Don Cupitt’s belief in a non-real God. God is a construct of humans— like justice, love, and all those other great things. Belief in god can inspire people to absolutely wonderful things. It’s not always, or even usually, a negative.

You have a really weird view of atheism.

160 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:59:59pm

re: #156 PT Barnum

email it to me via my webpage address

Ehh I’m tempted to turn it into a post on LGF pages…. or would that be abusing what they were made for since while the story does have political connotations its not exactly breaking news or anything…

161 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:11pm

re: #151 elbruce

positive or negative exceptionalism is a bad thing, it only leads to problems.

In any subject.

random Flashback 1

and for Obdi: Random flashback 2

162 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #143 elbruce

Never claimed an equal record. I’m claiming a similarity of attitude in every respect that matters.

I’m not going to get into the “body count” game. Nobody ends up looking good in that one. If I pull up 100 horrific instances from religion A but 200 from religion B, what does that say? That religion A is good?

(except for them sneaky Buddhists…)

Please- you referred to the American religious right as some of ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’. Your words. You elevated the religious right.

As for your comparison remarks, they too are absurd. If you are so hell bent on talking about ‘nasty religious elements’, how about some prioritizing. There is an epidemic of rape in Africa as well as the perennial genocide- or is Christians and Jews only who offend you?

163 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:43pm

re: #151 elbruce

Islamic exceptionalism…?

I must be missing your point. I took your comment as putting the current crop of American religious right being equivalent to the Taliban.

Did I get that wrong?

164 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:51pm

re: #152 jamesfirecat

I wrote a story in college (think I still have it) that’s a snap shot of what America would be like if atheism was considered the norm.

Is it anything like the South Park episode where Cartman goes to the future, religion has been banished, and atheists are having massive wars with each other about which form of atheism is correct?

165 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:00:58pm

re: #159 Obdicut

see I think its an insoluble problem. To me you just described your system of beliefs.


You yourself described your version of atheism as a belief system.

166 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:01:39pm

re: #157 talon_262

Why does this make so much sense?

/more hrmmm

I heard someone try to claim that the Wizard of Oz was some sort of satire of the Populist movement

Allegory…feh

167 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:01:39pm

the American religious right are among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’-

by elbruce

I’m claiming a similarity of attitude in every respect that matters.

by elbruce

168 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:01:42pm

re: #165 windsagio

see I think its an insoluble problem. To me you just described your system of beliefs.

You yourself described your version of atheism as a belief system.

If you say so.

169 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:01:45pm

re: #161 windsagio

positive or negative exceptionalism is a bad thing, it only leads to problems.

In any subject.

random Flashback 1

and for Obdi: Random flashback 2

I’ll send you a postcard from Columbia…

170 aagcobb  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:02:30pm

re: #114 Racer X

“Senator, I have reviewed this pornographic video 127 times now, and I can attest to it’s content as being pure degenerate homoerotic filth. In fact, if you don’t mind, I think I’m going to go watch it again just to be sure.”

Can you imagine the skit Monty Python could have done about this crew?

171 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:03:06pm

re: #168 JasonA

If you say so.

It’s like the discussion about tax rebates as subsidies the other day. It felt like both sides found the other’s position totally nonsensical and incomprehensible. I’m sure Reine remembers <3

172 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:03:09pm

re: #165 windsagio

see I think its an insoluble problem. To me you just described your system of beliefs.

You yourself described your version of atheism as a belief system.

No, I didn’t. You don’t get to just decide what a ‘belief system’ is. There is nothing I said that depends on belief, in any way.

Even if god were real— even if you granted that— the human belief in god would still be a construct. That’s not a belief.

You really should read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea. Trust me, you’re not actually presenting anything like an untested argument.

173 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:04:54pm

re: #172 Obdicut

oh I know, this whole thing is as old as the hills. I haven’t seen a new idea on the subject in like forever.

I’d love to read that book btw, just not enough to actually buy a copy. Laziness trumps. Its like when I try to get WUB and his partner to watch my anime. They want to, but they just never actually want to enough to get around to it :p

174 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:05:40pm

re: #162 researchok

As for your comparison remarks, they too are absurd. If you are so hell bent on talking about ‘nasty religious elements’, how about some prioritizing. There is an epidemic of rape in Africa as well as the perennial genocide- or is Christians and Jews only who offend you?

I didn’t say Christians and Jews offend me. They don’t, not at all. I’m quite fond of both religions, in fact.

But some people who are Christians offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are Jews offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are Muslim offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are [insert any religious, political, or economic belief system here] offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems.

I don’t know how much more clear I can make it.

Now, when discussing American public policy I don’t have much call to address my remarks to people halfway around the world who don’t even speak my language. It’s the intolerant people who claim to be Christians who I see as being a much more significant factor, and towards which I tend to address my remarks.

175 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:05:44pm
or is Christians and Jews only who offend you?

You nailed him…

176 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:06:11pm

re: #175 Centrist

learn to quote right, it makes it hard to follow things :p

There’s a button.

177 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:06:35pm

re: #173 windsagio

oh I know, this whole thing is as old as the hills. I haven’t seen a new idea on the subject in like forever.

You haven’t apparently heard a lot of the old ideas, because the idea that atheism is a belief system had been imploded a long time ago.

I’d love to read that book btw, just not enough to actually buy a copy.

Then don’t expect me to have any respect for your opinions or arguments on this subject.

178 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #175 Centrist

You nailed him…

There are buttons in the header of each comment that you can use to reply to and/or quote a comment. Makes the thread more readable.

Thank you.

179 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:07:07pm

re: #167 Centrist

the American religious right are among ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’-

by elbruce

Say, could you hunt down the thread I said that in? I’d like to check the context of that phrase. I don’t seem to have said it here.

180 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:08:08pm

re: #177 Obdicut

That’s a little harsh man.

It kinda comes to the point that irks me tho’. There’s a general presumption. Naturally I’m very sure I’m right, but that’s different from the dismissiveness.

There’s a common lack of respect in others beliefs that is really really offputting.

181 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:08:14pm

Wow. That’s as big a surprise as when Ricky Martin came out.

182 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:08:41pm

Or Clay Aiken.

183 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:06pm

I’m using the quote button. My comments are below the quote I’m responding to.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:16pm

re: #177 Obdicut

You haven’t apparently heard a lot of the old ideas, because the idea that atheism is a belief system had been imploded a long time ago.

Then don’t expect me to have any respect for your opinions or arguments on this subject.

This statement is made by a believer:

I believe that there is nothing more boring than people telling you about their atheism, unless it is people arguing about whether atheism is a belief system or not.

185 Nimed  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:19pm
He was aware that Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief strategic adviser, had been working with Republicans to make sure that anti-gay initiatives and referenda would appear on November ballots in 2004 and 2006 to help Republicans.

How curious that Mehlman’s comfort with his sexual orientation coincided with a period of his life in which he no longer has his gay maligning job at stake.

186 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:21pm

re: #174 elbruce

I find the madness of killing ‘witches’ in Somalia appalling. I find that Thai Buddhist women say a prayer that they might be reincarnated as men depressing. And the Tibetan Buddhists had a rigid caste state with elements of slavery, they weren’t wonderful egalitarians. I think that there are many worse excesses of religion than there are found in the US.

But I think people in the US have much less of an excuse than those in other parts of the world. I also think I live in the US, so the people getting laws passed in Oklahoma mandating that women who have been raped and want an abortion get re-raped should be more of a concern to me than what people are doing in a country I have no control over at all and am not a citizen of.

187 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:40pm

re: #183 Centrist

I’m using the quote button. My comments are below the quote I’m responding to.

if yo’ure using the quote button properly, it shows a little tag that you can click on that goes to the post you’re replying to.

Somehow you’re doing it wrong :p

188 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:09:55pm

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

This statement is made by a believer:

I believe that there is nothing more boring than people telling you about their atheism, unless it is people arguing about whether atheism is a belief system or not.

Sayz you, its fun!

189 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:10:07pm

re: #171 windsagio

It’s like the discussion about tax rebates as subsidies the other day. It felt like both sides found the other’s position totally nonsensical and incomprehensible. I’m sure Reine remembers <3

It’s like the difference between having a wallet stuffed with cash and an empty one. You’re correct in saying that I have a balance. Since that balance is $0, though, it doesn’t mean much.

190 PT Barnum  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:10:08pm

I’m off to dinner…

Gnite all

191 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:10:25pm

re: #188 windsagio

altho in my defense I brought it up as somewhat a joke, I knew what was gonna happen when I mentioned it :P

192 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:11:14pm

re: #189 JasonA

I’m gonna bow to SFZ’s stink eye and drop that particular part of the argument ;)

193 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:11:15pm

re: #189 JasonA

It’s like the difference between having a wallet stuffed with cash and an empty one. You’re correct in saying that I have a balance. Since that balance is $0, though, it doesn’t mean much.

Oh, yes, I do.
Tho I thought it was a most interesting discussion.

194 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:11:25pm

re: #186 Obdicut

But I think people in the US have much less of an excuse than those in other parts of the world. I also think I live in the US, so the people getting laws passed in Oklahoma mandating that women who have been raped and want an abortion get re-raped should be more of a concern to me than what people are doing in a country I have no control over at all and am not a citizen of.

What some call “blame America first” I call “fix America first.”

195 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:11:41pm

re: #174 elbruce

I didn’t say Christians and Jews offend me. They don’t, not at all. I’m quite fond of both religions, in fact.

But some people who are Christians offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are Jews offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are Muslim offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems. Some people who are [insert any religious, political, or economic belief system here] offend me by being intolerant of other belief systems.

I don’t know how much more clear I can make it.

Now, when discussing American public policy I don’t have much call to address my remarks to people halfway around the world who don’t even speak my language. It’s the intolerant people who claim to be Christians who I see as being a much more significant factor, and towards which I tend to address my remarks.

You have made it very clear.

You believe in moral relativism- all religions, belief structures, etc., are equal.

Good luck with that.

How do you feel about liberal Christians who are against gay marriage? You know, like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, etc? Are they too part of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’?

How do you feel about intolerant people who might be liberal?

196 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:12:03pm

re: #180 windsagio

That’s a little harsh man.

.

It’s really not. If you’re not going to bother to actually engage with the best arguments on the subject out there, why should I accord your position any respect? It’s just boring.

It kinda comes to the point that irks me tho’. There’s a general presumption. Naturally I’m very sure I’m right, but that’s different from the dismissiveness.

I’m sure that I have thought very long and hard about it, examined arguments very closely written by some of the greatest minds available to us, and that you just said you’re too lazy to do so.


There’s a common lack of respect in others beliefs that is really really offputting

Why is it offputting to not respect a belief? Beliefs shouldn’t get any respect. I don’t care what you believe if you’re not going to throw it in my face or try to pass legislation based on it, but I don’t get why you feel you also have the right to demand I respect it when you express it.

I will defend your right to practice whatever religion you have, to express it, to not be persecuted for your beliefs. Why do I also need to ‘respect’ it?

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:12:05pm

re: #187 windsagio

if yo’ure using the quote button properly, it shows a little tag that you can click on that goes to the post you’re replying to.

Somehow you’re doing it wrong :p

I see the quotes he’s responding to.

Weird.

198 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:12:18pm

re: #195 researchok

Wut?

199 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:12:20pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

Oh, yes, I do.
Tho I thought it was a most interesting discussion.

Were you replying to something else?

200 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:12:49pm

So yeah, not to thread jack or anything but would anyone have a problem with me posting a short story I wrote about half a year ago on LGF pages, or should we save them for actual political events?

201 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:05pm

re: #177 Obdicut

You haven’t apparently heard a lot of the old ideas, because the idea that atheism is a belief system had been imploded a long time ago.

Then don’t expect me to have any respect for your opinions or arguments on this subject.

I want the same drink you’re having.

202 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:13pm

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Nope. A GUYRO.

Gay, Uncloseted Young Republican Outcast.

no, no, official Young Republican rules says you have to be 42 or younger. So they’d have tossed him out anyway.

(confession: I was a Young Republican — snickering helplessly at the idea that 41 still counted as young — until they threw me out for working for the Anderson campaign in ‘80)

203 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:15pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I see the quotes he’s responding to.

Weird.

I see the quotes, but not the source of the quotes.

204 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:21pm

re: #200 jamesfirecat

So yeah, not to thread jack or anything but would anyone have a problem with me posting a short story I wrote about half a year ago on LGF pages, or should we save them for actual political events?

Pages are wide open for any topic

205 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:21pm

re: #199 JasonA

Were you replying to something else?

I thought I was replying to Windsagio.
Obviously, I’ve had a senior moment.
My apologies.

206 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:13:23pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I see the quotes he’s responding to.

Weird.

You see who said the quote? I don’t.

207 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:14:06pm

re: #200 jamesfirecat

So yeah, not to thread jack or anything but would anyone have a problem with me posting a short story I wrote about half a year ago on LGF pages, or should we save them for actual political events?

go for it.

208 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:14:14pm

re: #200 jamesfirecat

So yeah, not to thread jack or anything but would anyone have a problem with me posting a short story I wrote about half a year ago on LGF pages, or should we save them for actual political events?

I posted about a pet pulpo. I think it’s pretty much a free for all. Go for it.

209 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:14:26pm

re: #200 jamesfirecat

So yeah, not to thread jack or anything but would anyone have a problem with me posting a short story I wrote about half a year ago on LGF pages, or should we save them for actual political events?

I believe you may post what you wish. If Stinky has a problem with it, he has a way of letting you know.

210 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:15:01pm

re: #195 researchok


How do you feel about liberal Christians who are against gay marriage? You know, like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, etc? Are they too part of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’?

How do you feel about intolerant people who might be liberal?

I think Obama’s personal opposition to gay marriage is contemptible and shallow.

I’m glad that it doesn’t affect his actual performance of his constitutional duties more.

I don’t think opposition to gay marriage alone can qualify people as ‘nastiest’. I do think that people who support the law mandating women wanting abortions get shamed and have an unnecessary, unwanted medical procedure that amounts to rape performed on them are shitty, shitty human beings.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:15:19pm

re: #203 wrenchwench

I see the quotes, but not the source of the quotes.

Oh. Now I see what you’re seeing.

Maybe he’s cut-and-pasting and putting them in blockquotes?

212 nines09  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:15:32pm
Mehlman arrived at this conclusion about his identity fairly recently, he said in an interview.

It never ceases to amaze me. He just found out? Wow. Is he going to Palm Springs?

213 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:15:50pm

re: #196 Obdicut

Your post was basically equivalent to me saying “read this one particular analysis of the Bible I like or don’t expect me to have any respect for your opinions or arguments on this subject.”

And you respect it because its only reasonable to do so. Like I said I’m damn sure I’m right and that Mormons, or Muslims, or Atheists are very very wrong. I also acknowledge that I could be the one wrong, and don’t make presumptions of superiority.

It strikes me as deeply wrong to say ‘well my belief system is somehow different and better than yours’.

214 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:15:53pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh. Now I see what you’re seeing.

Maybe he’s cut-and-pasting and putting them in blockquotes?

Either that or removing the attribution.

215 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:16:07pm

re: #198 windsagio

Wut?

I was referring to his stated remarks re religious believers as being part ‘of ‘the nastiest elements of humanity’.

If we smart he’d say he misspoke- and let it go.

I’d get that. He’s chosen to justify his remarks.

216 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:16:33pm

re: #205 reine.de.tout

I’ve been having those moments since I was about five. I was always very advanced for my age.

217 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:16:50pm

re: #212 nines09

It never ceases to amaze me. He just found out? Wow. Is he going to Palm Springs?

“All these years watching gladiator films at the bath house and it finally hit me…”

218 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:17:04pm

re: #215 researchok

I’ll leave that with you, I’m busy with my knifefight with obdicut :D

/Damn, of all the people I always say to stay out of the way of, too!

219 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:17:33pm

re: #216 Obdicut

I’ve been having those moments since I was about five. I was always very advanced for my age.

LOL.
:-)

220 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:17:36pm

re: #210 Obdicut

I think Obama’s personal opposition to gay marriage is contemptible and shallow.

I’m glad that it doesn’t affect his actual performance of his constitutional duties more.

I don’t think opposition to gay marriage alone can qualify people as ‘nastiest’. I do think that people who support the law mandating women wanting abortions get shamed and have an unnecessary, unwanted medical procedure that amounts to rape performed on them are shitty, shitty human beings.

I agree wholeheartedly. My point was to have my critic reflect.

(as you know)

221 zora  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:17:38pm

personally, i find myself more disgusted with the religious right as i am a christian and these people have misrepresented the belief system that i identify with. they are a nasty bunch, indeed. to take the teachings of jesus christ. love, redemption, forgiveness, service to the least in society, freedom from bondage (internal and external) and use this as a bludgeon against women, gays, minorities (i could go on). they want to decide what a sanctified marriage is for all of america and they don’t even believe in the sanctity of christianity.

222 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:17:44pm

re: #213 windsagio

It strikes me as deeply wrong to say ‘well my belief system is somehow different and better than yours’.

Is it ironic that this is the thought that started me down the road to atheism?

223 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:18:16pm

re: #210 Obdicut

I think his opposition to gay marriage isn’t really his opposition, but rather a convenient political position >>

224 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:18:28pm

re: #195 researchok

You believe in moral relativism- all religions, belief structures, etc., are equal.

Nah, I just think that what kind of dogma-flag you fly has less of an effect on whether you’re actually a good person than you may think it does.

Would you be able to get behind the notion that some people practice their religion poorly, or have a poor or twisted grasp of it? And that that can happen to any religion? If so, then you’d have to agree that every religion (as well as other kinds of belief systems) that has millions of followers would statistically have to have some people who claim it who aren’t very good people, due at least to their misunderstanding of what they claim to believe.

Nobody has ever come up with a belief system that easily, instantly and effectively serves as safe inoculation against being a jerk. Not being a jerk takes hard work and introspection regardless of what name your invisible friend goes by.

If you believe that 100% of your religion is good people solely by virtue of being in your religion, then you’re one of the jerks. So really, you’re doing a great job of serving as a sort of visual aid in regards to this discussion.

225 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:18:44pm

re: #222 wrenchwench

Is it ironic that this is the thought that started me down the road to atheism?

It’s beautiful, really.

People are people tho’, you can’t escape it :P

226 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:19:14pm

Greetings from Manhattan!

Because I had errands to run that were nearby, and because I was curious, I just took a stroll over to the famous block of Park Place that includes the prospective site of Park51. My observations:

1> The block is utterly unremarkable visually. Just to look at it, there is nothing that would leave you thinking that there is anything special or historic about it. All you see are the buildings on the block, and none of them are anything special. The businesses, as has been previously noted, are nothing special either: the Amish Market, the Dakota Roadhouse, etc.

2> It is a great block for access to mass transit. It is a couple of blocks from the PATH, which can get you to or from Newark (and Amtrak) and Hoboken (NJ Transit), and at the end of the block is a subway station for the 2/3 and A/C, so there is great access to the West Side and to Brooklyn. A little farther away is the Fulton Street station which gets you two more subway lines. So for the proposed use, the location is pretty sweet: people can get there pretty easily from all over. That is a big deal for something like a community center, since you expect it to draw from beyond the immediate neighborhood, like the 92nd St Y does.

3> I like the Dakota Roadhouse. It is a divey sort of bar, with a pool table, foosball table, lots of TVs and nice long bar. Bass Ale is $6, and the bartender was cute. She was on her first day (or so she said). They give you a little prize card, and tell you if you peel back a number that’s an 11 or less, you get a free drink.

3> There were two protesters. Both look bored. One was “pro”, as he had a “Freedom of Religion” sign. The other I couldn’t tell. He was one of those guys who carries a big sign that has lots of small print on it. I give those guys a wide berth, because they are often loons.

So that’s my eyewitness account. Drab block, cold Bass, cute barkeep. Score it yourselves.

227 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:19:32pm

re: #221 zora

personally, i find myself more disgusted with the religious right as i am a christian and these people have misrepresented the belief system that i identify with. they are a nasty bunch, indeed. to take the teachings of jesus christ. love, redemption, forgiveness, service to the least in society, freedom from bondage (internal and external) and use this as a bludgeon against women, gays, minorities (i could go on). they want to decide what a sanctified marriage is for all of america and they don’t even believe in the sanctity of christianity.

They’ve turned the humility of Christianity, into a belief that they are God’s substitute on earth, superior beings free to judge.
*spit*
I can’t stand them.

228 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:19:44pm

re: #226 garhighway

Missed you man, hallo!

229 Nimed  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:13pm

re: #175 Centrist

You nailed him…

*looks at comment’s downdings*

Note to self: refrain from making crucifixion jokes.

230 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:13pm

re: #195 researchok

How do you feel about intolerant people who might be liberal?

If you wanna see the types he hangs out and agrees with, just go to think progress. “Intolerant” is being really polite…

231 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:20pm

re: #223 windsagio

I think his opposition to gay marriage isn’t really his opposition, but rather a convenient political position >>

Me too. Clinton, Obama et al. Pandering, because oh hell no, you can’t run for office & be for gay marriage.

It’s not much of a step up though, that’s for sure.

232 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:31pm

re: #230 Centrist

If you wanna see the types he hangs out and agrees with, just go to think progress. “Intolerant” is being really polite…

There you go! Yay!

233 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:40pm

re: #213 windsagio

Your post was basically equivalent to me saying “read this one particular analysis of the Bible I like or don’t expect me to have any respect for your opinions or arguments on this subject.”

No, it wasn’t. You are using a line of logic that is very old, and very fallacious. It is dealt with very neatly in Darwin’s Dangerous Idea. It is dealt with in a large number of other philosophical texts, as well. It has nothing at all to do with the interpretation of a text; it’s logic.

And you respect it because its only reasonable to do so.

You didn’t actually answer, you know.

Like I said I’m damn sure I’m right and that Mormons, or Muslims, or Atheists are very very wrong.

Actually, most religious people that I know that I do respect the beliefs of don’t actually think that they’re ‘right’. They wouldn’t put it in those terms.

I also acknowledge that I could be the one wrong, and don’t make presumptions of superiority.

I don’t think I’m superior.

It strikes me as deeply wrong to say ‘well my belief system is somehow different and better than yours’.

It strikes me as deeply wrong that you’re still calling atheism a belief system. Hypocritical, actually, given that you know that’s the subject I’m saying is under contention. Why not give a little respect to my position, if you’re so big on it, and consider that that is actually an open question? Why not acknowledge that you could be the one who’s wrong, and not make presumptions of superiority?

234 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:42pm

re: #227 reine.de.tout

They’ve turned the humility of Christianity, into a belief that they are God’s substitute on earth, superior beings free to judge.
*spit*
I can’t stand them.

Let he without documented, verified photographic evidence cast the first stone.

**ZING**

235 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:52pm

re: #232 windsagio

yay at quote, not content, lol. I think the + and - cancel out.

236 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:57pm

re: #67 researchok

I haven’t seen many evangelicals gang rape women as a form of punishment or cut off ears, noses or condone FGM.

And yet if they had the power and authority, I’m not so sure they wouldn’t.

237 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:20:58pm

re: #223 windsagio

I think his opposition to gay marriage isn’t really his opposition, but rather a convenient political position >>

Then that’s even scummier.

238 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:21:10pm

re: #210 Obdicut

I think Obama’s personal opposition to gay marriage is contemptible and shallow.

Or it would be if gay marriage had anything to do with the Presidency whatsoever.

239 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:21:42pm

re: #230 Centrist

If you wanna see the types he hangs out and agrees with, just go to think progress. “Intolerant” is being really polite…

We know that’s where he came from, he told us (or somebody did).

It’s my understanding that he’s here, now, because he wants a different sort of experience.

240 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:21:54pm

re: #237 Obdicut

Then that’s even scummier.

I stand by my “Bastard” statement.

241 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:21:55pm

re: #226 garhighway

I believe I “updinged” your Amazon review of Geller’s book. Was that you?

242 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:22:31pm

re: #238 elbruce

Or it would be if gay marriage had anything to do with the Presidency whatsoever.

No. I think that expressing that belief is contemptible and shallow. I don’t care if you’re th night janitor or the president. It’s a crappy thing to say, an unamerican belief to have.

243 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:22:44pm

Gotta run.
BBL.

244 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:23:04pm

re: #230 Centrist

If you wanna see the types he hangs out and agrees with, just go to think progress. “Intolerant” is being really polite…

You seem really, really, really eager to stir up trouble here.

Why is that?

245 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:23:10pm

re: #224 elbruce

Nah, I just think that what kind of dogma-flag you fly has less of an effect on whether you’re actually a good person than you may think it does.

Would you be able to get behind the notion that some people practice their religion poorly, or have a poor or twisted grasp of it? And that that can happen to any religion? If so, then you’d have to agree that every religion (as well as other kinds of belief systems) that has millions of followers would statistically have to have some people who claim it who aren’t very good people, due at least to their misunderstanding of what they claim to believe.

Nobody has ever come up with a belief system that easily, instantly and effectively serves as safe inoculation against being a jerk. Not being a jerk takes hard work and introspection regardless of what name your invisible friend goes by.

If you believe that 100% of your religion is good people solely by virtue of being in your religion, then you’re one of the jerks. So really, you’re doing a great job of serving as a sort of visual aid in regards to this discussion.

I don’t know where you are going with all this.

You made the remark that the Christian right were ‘part if the nastiest part if humanity’. The remark is absurd.

You did not need to take a shovel and start digging.

246 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:23:53pm

re: #230 Centrist

If you wanna see the types he hangs out and agrees with, just go to think progress. “Intolerant” is being really polite…

Would you happen to be one of the sock-puppet trolls who infest Think Progress?

247 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:24:13pm

re: #245 researchok

You made the remark that the Christian right were ‘part if the nastiest part if humanity’. The remark is absurd.

Where did I say that again? You’ve cited me saying it at least five times in quotes in this thread alone. I’d like to go back to find the original comment I made using those words, but I can’t find it here. Got link?

248 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:24:14pm

re: #226 garhighway

I didn’t know you were a fellow Manhattanite.

We should get together for an outrageously overpriced drink sometime.

249 palomino  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:24:22pm

re: #112 Centrist

The man was a campaign manager and you people are getting your panties all wadded up over a nobody, a has been. Priorities…

He wasn’t just a “campaign manager.” He was the head of the freakin’ Republican National Committee. At a time when they were exploiting homophobia to win elections (I’m not sure that’s changed).

You really don’t think it would be a huge story if Michael Steele were to announce tomorrow that he’s gay?

250 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:24:27pm

re: #228 windsagio

Missed you man, hallo!

Hola!

251 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:25:08pm

re: #241 wrenchwench

I believe I “updinged” your Amazon review of Geller’s book. Was that you?

There’s only one of me. I hope.

Otherwise I will get confused.

252 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:25:08pm

re: #245 researchok

I don’t know where you are going with all this.

You made the remark that the Christian right were ‘part if the nastiest part if humanity’. The remark is absurd.

You did not need to take a shovel and start digging.

You do know it was “TheHeat” who said that, not elbruce, right?

253 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:25:42pm

re: #248 Obdicut

I didn’t know you were a fellow Manhattanite.

We should get together for an outrageously overpriced drink sometime.

Absolutely.

I work downtown and live on the Upper West Side.

254 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:25:47pm

re: #249 palomino

He wasn’t just a “campaign manager.” He was the head of the freakin’ Republican National Committee. At a time when they were exploiting homophobia to win elections (I’m not sure that’s changed).

You really don’t think it would be a huge story if Michael Steele were to announce tomorrow that he’s gay?

//A gay black Republican? Now if only they’d be lucky enough for him to be disabled as well then they’d have the token trifecta to represent the RNC!

255 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:02pm

re: #242 Obdicut

No. I think that expressing that belief is contemptible and shallow. I don’t care if you’re th night janitor or the president. It’s a crappy thing to say, an unamerican belief to have.

Seeing as how most Americans believe that, that’s hard to say. That said, I personally disagree with Obama on that. But deciding who is or isn’t married is a power of the states, not the federal government. So his opinion carries no more weight than mine.

256 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:18pm

McCollum looses FL primary

Keeping up his reputation for being pure ass;

“This race was one for the ages. No one could have anticipated the entrance of a multimillionaire with a questionable past who shattered campaign spending records and spent more in four months than has ever been spent in a primary race here in Florida.

So much for his anti-gay, following AZ immmigration laws agenda.

257 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:35pm

re: #251 garhighway

There’s only one of me. I hope.

Otherwise I will get confused.

Unfortunately, I have found that singularity is no guarantee of clarity.

258 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:44pm

re: #249 palomino

You really don’t think it would be a huge story if Michael Steele were to announce tomorrow that he’s gay?

It would be a huge story if Michael Steele were to announce tomorrow that he’s black. /

259 darthstar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:52pm

Good for Mehlman. Seriously. Living a closeted life has to be hell for these guys…and the guys they’re fucking. I just don’t understand why they feel the need to pass so many hateful laws while hiding their true selves. It’s really fucked up.

260 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:26:54pm

Before you take a job as a Saudi domestic you might wanna read this:

Sri Lanka maid says Saudi boss stuck nails in her
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
08/25/2010 23:30

COLOMBO, Sri Lanka — A Sri Lankan maid returned from her job in Saudi Arabia with 24 nails inside her body — the result of torture by the family who employed her, a doctor and government official said Wednesday.

L.G. Ariyawathi’s body is riddled with needles and nails, which are scheduled to be removed Friday, a doctor confirmed Wednesday.

Ariyawathi, 49, returned to Sri Lanka on Saturday from Saudi Arabia and was hospitalized the next day with severe pain at a facility about 100 miles (160 kilometers) away from capital, Colombo, according to media reports.

She told a local newspaper that her employers tortured her with the nails as punishment.

“They (employer and his family) did not allow me even to rest. The woman at the house had heated the nails and then the man inserted them into my body,” Ariyawathi was quoted as saying in the Lakbima, a newspaper published in local Sinhalese language.

She told the paper that she went to Saudi Arabia in March and was paid only two months’ salary, with her employer withholding three months’ salary to buy an air ticket to send her home.

261 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:27:15pm

re: #233 Obdicut

It strikes me as deeply wrong that you’re still calling atheism a belief system. Hypocritical, actually, given that you know that’s the subject I’m saying is under contention. Why not give a little respect to my position, if you’re so big on it, and consider that that is actually an open question? Why not acknowledge that you could be the one who’s wrong, and not make presumptions of superiority?

We’re coming full circle now :)

I try, really I do :P It comes down to what I said before. I’m 100% percent willing to admit that you’re right about your beliefs. Maybe religion is a social construct, etc. etc. There’s a strong logic to it, and there’s some evidence of an evolutionary need to believe in something.

I’ve read the arguments, we’ve had this discussion, we’ve probably both had this discussion seperately with dozens of other people each.

Ultimately I just can’t accept that this particular (lack of) belief is in some way different and better in the human condition. If you don’t think that great, obviously I’ve been soured by too many people who do think exactly that.*

*Although there would be some irony to that, that’s exactly the kind of response I complain about when the big I comes up ;)

262 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #257 wrenchwench

Unfortunately, I have found that singularity is no guarantee of clarity.

Agree. But it helps.

263 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:27:36pm

re: #252 Obdicut

You do know it was “TheHeat” who said that, not elbruce, right?


Yes, my mistake.

I offer Ebruce my apologies.

(That will teach me to try and multi task. Phone calls or LGF comments)

264 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:28:29pm

re: #252 Obdicut

You do know it was “TheHeat” who said that, not elbruce, right?

They all look alike.

265 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:28:30pm

re: #261 windsagio

There should be a very important ‘maybe’ in this post. Guess where it goes!

266 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:28:43pm

Kragar, you still here?

Have you seen this yet?

267 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:29:17pm

re: #263 researchok

if you’re a real man, you multitask. I’m IM’ing, listening to music, playing Desktop Dungeons, and posting on LGF all at once!

Maybe its just the add tho’ >>

268 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:30:02pm

re: #253 garhighway

Absolutely.

I work downtown and live on the Upper West Side.

I work from home and live on the Upper East Side.

I haven’t been to central park yet.

My gmail is just my name here at gmail. Give me a mail.

269 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:30:09pm

re: #266 JasonA

Kragar, you still here?

Have you seen this yet?

[Video]

Of course. I’m withholding judgement until I see more of the final product.

270 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:30:52pm

re: #224 elbruce

EBruce, I must apologize- I incorrectly attributed another’s remarks to you.

That’s what I get for trying to multitask!

271 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:31:28pm

re: #268 Obdicut

I work from home and live on the Upper East Side.

I haven’t been to central park yet.

My gmail is just my name here at gmail. Give me a mail.

Ooo: The East Side. Would I need a passport?

272 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:31:36pm

re: #252 Obdicut

You do know it was “TheHeat” who said that, not elbruce, right?

Frankly, it sounded like something I might say, I just wanted to go check it out.

273 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:31:44pm

re: #270 researchok

EBruce, I must apologize- I incorrectly attributed another’s remarks to you.

That’s what I get for trying to multitask!

Repent!

274 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:31:53pm

re: #267 windsagio

if you’re a real man, you multitask. I’m IM’ing, listening to music, playing Desktop Dungeons, and posting on LGF all at once!

Maybe its just the add tho’ >>

Some days I feel like I’m trying to juggle chain saws.

275 Winny Spencer  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:32:02pm
276 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:32:10pm

re: #271 garhighway

Ooo: The East Side. Would I need a passport?

Have to buy a new suit, too.

277 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:32:16pm

re: #273 JasonA

Repent!

If I did that my day would be shot!

278 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:32:22pm

Here:

ALL CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT BASTARDS!

Discuss.

/

279 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:32:41pm

re: #278 elbruce

Ain’t that the truth!

280 palomino  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:33:26pm

re: #254 jamesfirecat

//A gay black Republican? Now if only they’d be lucky enough for him to be disabled as well then they’d have the token trifecta to represent the RNC!

Where do you get off talking about gop tokenism? Republicans in Congress are only 91% male and 96% white. I dare you to refudiate that diversity.

281 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:33:38pm
Ultimately I just can’t accept that this particular (lack of) belief is in some way different and better in the human condition. If you don’t think that great, obviously I’ve been soured by too many people who do think exactly that.*

Better? It depends how you mean. But yes, that is part of your fallacious assumption about me, and about atheism in general.

I think it’s better for me. I think it’s definitely better than believing one has the right to remove rights from others because of religious beliefs. I don’t think it’s better than someone for whom their religion is— in my eyes, of course— an expression of their love for life and their fellow man, and their attempts to be good people.

*Although there would be some irony to that, that’s exactly the kind of response I complain about when the big I comes up ;)

Yes. There’s a lot of irony to that. Especially since you started this off with a post that you admit was designed to inflame. That’s the second time I’ve seen you do that. That’s also called ‘trolling’. You shouldn’t do it.

282 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:33:38pm

re: #7 aagcobb

Are there any anti-gay activists on the Right who aren’t closeted queers?

The link between supporting bigoted anti-gay legislation and being a closeted gay wingnut gets stronger every day.

283 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:33:47pm

re: #278 elbruce

Here:

ALL CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT BASTARDS!

Discuss.

/


I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi

284 Nimed  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:34:35pm

I’m thinking of watching “Paranormal Activity”, but the friends I’ve talked too are pretty divided on the quality of the movie (“It’s BONE-CHILLING”, “It’s CRAP, don’t waste your time”).

Can a brother get a lizard’s opinion on the movie?

285 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:34:50pm

re: #278 elbruce

Here:

ALL CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT BASTARDS!

Discuss.

/

I really laughed out loud!

286 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:35:16pm

re: #271 garhighway

Ooo: The East Side. Would I need a passport?

I don’t really love it in the Upper East. Lots of old people, expensive bad food. I hope we can move down to the Village eventually, or some other cool place. We’re in graduate student housing— my wife is an MD/PhD student at Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan Kettering.

287 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:35:37pm

Off topic, but I wanted to thank alot (probably) of you. I’ve been adjusting to classes, and haven’t been on. In one of my classes, there was an arguement over the “Ground Zero Mosque.” They brought up alot of the talking points you hear on Fox and other places, talking about sensitivity and how they are not against mosques in general. However, I was able to point out the hypocrisy in the first point, and mention the other protests against other mosques to refute the second. I also used many of the points that you have talked about before. So thank you for that. Unfortunately, one of the editorialists for the school newspaper decided to do a rant against the “Mosque” as well. I’ll be sending a response to the paper about it.

288 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:36:14pm

re: #278 elbruce

Here:

ALL CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT BASTARDS!

Discuss.

/

Obama too?

289 alexknyc  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:36:48pm

re: #248 Obdicut

I didn’t know you were a fellow Manhattanite.

We should get together for an outrageously overpriced drink sometime.

I spent almost my entire life in Manhattan but moved in November 2006 to Queens.

Manhattan just got too expensive for me.

290 palomino  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:36:50pm

re: #284 Nimed

I’m thinking of watching “Paranormal Activity”, but the friends I’ve talked too are pretty divided on the quality of the movie (“It’s BONE-CHILLING”, “It’s CRAP, don’t waste your time”).

Can a brother get a lizard’s opinion on the movie?

It’s got a few clever and genuinely creepy moments.

But it’s still overlong at just 85 minutes and the acting sucks. Don’t bother unless you’re a real fan of the genre.

291 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:37:49pm

re: #288 Racer X

Obama too?

Obama’s a Christian?

292 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:38:37pm

re: #289 alexknyc

It’s fucking ridiculous. I went out to a place that was supposed to be ‘cheap’ for a burger and a couple of beers.

$28.

Okay, that food was great, but i had to go to the Village for it, and it was still $28.

Especially while I’m trying to get more contracts for my consulting gig, I can’t be spending like that. I’m a skinflint.

293 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:38:54pm

re: #291 JasonA

Obama’s a Christian?

Not according to Beck

294 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:38:59pm

re: #229 Nimed

Note to self: refrain from making crucifixion jokes.

No more nails!

295 darthstar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:40:21pm

How many tits does it take for a Republican to get fired? Apparently, more than 310 million.

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com…]

Alan K. Simpson, the Republican co-chairman of President Obama’s bipartisan fiscal commission, removed his “size 15 feet” from his mouth to apologize to a critic on Wednesday for a stinging letter in which he compared Social Security to “a milk cow with 310 million tits.”

…snip…

But at the White House, Jennifer Psaki, the deputy communications director, said, “Alan Simpson has apologized and while we regret and do not condone his comments, we accept his apology and he will continue to serve.

296 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:40:36pm

re: #292 Obdicut

It’s fucking ridiculous. I went out to a place that was supposed to be ‘cheap’ for a burger and a couple of beers.

$28.

Okay, that food was great, but i had to go to the Village for it, and it was still $28.

Especially while I’m trying to get more contracts for my consulting gig, I can’t be spending like that. I’m a skinflint.

Hardees Six Dollar Burger.

America’s a great country.

297 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:41:07pm

re: #291 JasonA

Obama’s a Christian?

I just knew that “secret Muslim” card would turn out to be useful someday…

298 HoosierHoops  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:41:25pm

re: #294 Jimmah

No more nails!


[Video]

Hi Jimmah..How is Ice’s finger?
Hope today finds you well

299 alexknyc  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:41:51pm

re: #292 Obdicut

It’s fucking ridiculous. I went out to a place that was supposed to be ‘cheap’ for a burger and a couple of beers.

$28.

Okay, that food was great, but i had to go to the Village for it, and it was still $28.

Especially while I’m trying to get more contracts for my consulting gig, I can’t be spending like that. I’m a skinflint.

Where did you go that it cost $28? And what kind of beer were you drinking? Some of these places gouge you on anything that’s not mass-produced, American pisswater.

300 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:42:02pm

re: #295 darthstar

How many tits does it take for a Republican to get fired? Apparently, more than 310 million.

Now who would want to get rid of a program that produces so much milk? Think of all that milk!

301 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:42:11pm

re: #281 Obdicut

I should remember that this isn’t a tough crowd, and that people can’t discuss things without getting pissy.

It was meant to be a lighthearted jab, kind of like a ‘aha I know we can’t resolve this, but I might as well get a shot in!’ And then we could have some fun going back and forth and then agree that it was an unsolvable problem.


Instead its reduced to false attributions and accusations of trolling.

Pretty deeply dissappointed right now.

302 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:42:13pm

re: #284 Nimed

I’m thinking of watching “Paranormal Activity”, but the friends I’ve talked too are pretty divided on the quality of the movie (“It’s BONE-CHILLING”, “It’s CRAP, don’t waste your time”).

Can a brother get a lizard’s opinion on the movie?

Yep. It’s rubbish I’m afraid. It could have been scary; the basic ingredients are all there but there doesn’t seem to be any awareness of how to generate tension and create real shocks on the part of the director.

303 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:42:33pm

re: #301 windsagio

So I drop out. The last word is yours if you want it :)

304 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:43:17pm

re: #286 Obdicut

I don’t really love it in the Upper East. Lots of old people, expensive bad food. I hope we can move down to the Village eventually, or some other cool place. We’re in graduate student housing— my wife is an MD/PhD student at Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan Kettering.

The Village is excellent, but super expensive.

The East Village might be worth a look: funky, safer than it used to be, and cheaper. A lot more character than the UES.

305 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:44:05pm

If you get the urge to exclaim “all Christians are … . “, stop for a second and remember what “all Muslims are … … ” sounds like.

306 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:44:24pm

re: #299 alexknyc

Where did you go that it cost $28? And what kind of beer were you drinking? Some of these places gouge you on anything that’s not mass-produced, American pisswater.

This place:

[Link: nymag.com…]

The burger was only $10, but didn’t include fries. I had Ratzenberger for the beer, two of ‘em. Yeah, I think those were like eight apiece.

I’m just feeling my way around. I have some friends who live here already, but they all live in Brooklyn so they’re not so good at ‘where’s a good cheap place to eat in manhattan’ question.

307 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:44:40pm

re: #298 HoosierHoops

Hi Jimmah..How is Ice’s finger?
Hope today finds you well

Cheers, Hoops! Great here, still busy with home improvements and enjopying the last of the summer here in Scotland. Ice is still on the mend - hospital again tomorrow.

308 darthstar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:45:35pm

re: #300 elbruce

Now who would want to get rid of a program that produces so much milk? Think of all that milk!

Well, you can’t fire a Republican…the Republicans will be outraged. But firing Shirley Sherrod for NOT saying something offensive? No problemo. I’m sick of the special treatment assholes like Simpson get for fear of the right wing noise machine.

309 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:46:46pm

re: #292 Obdicut

You should consider moving to southern Missouri. You can go to a pretty nice joint and get a delicious burger, fries, and a few beers - all for around $10

310 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:47:13pm

re: #307 Jimmah

Cheers, Hoops! Great here, still busy with home improvements and enjopying the last of the summer here in Scotland. Ice is still on the mend - hospital again tomorrow.

Kiss her boo-boo for us.

311 alexknyc  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:48:18pm

re: #306 Obdicut

This place:

[Link: nymag.com…]

The burger was only $10, but didn’t include fries. I had Ratzenberger for the beer, two of ‘em. Yeah, I think those were like eight apiece.

I’m just feeling my way around. I have some friends who live here already, but they all live in Brooklyn so they’re not so good at ‘where’s a good cheap place to eat in manhattan’ question.

At this point, I’m not sure there’s a BAD cheap place to eat in Manhattan anymore.

312 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:48:31pm

re: #292 Obdicut

It’s fucking ridiculous. I went out to a place that was supposed to be ‘cheap’ for a burger and a couple of beers.

$28.

Okay, that food was great, but i had to go to the Village for it, and it was still $28.

Especially while I’m trying to get more contracts for my consulting gig, I can’t be spending like that. I’m a skinflint.

Cheap is hard here. You have to work at it.

313 Nimed  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:49:09pm

re: #290 palomino

re: #302 Jimmah

Much obliged, dudes (goddamn horror movies today).

314 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:49:13pm

re: #301 windsagio

I should remember that this isn’t a tough crowd, and that people can’t discuss things without getting pissy.

You say that every time. It’s insulting in and of itself, and you do remember. You just choose to post what you do anyway. Come on.


It was meant to be a lighthearted jab, kind of like a ‘aha I know we can’t resolve this, but I might as well get a shot in!’ And then we could have some fun going back and forth and then agree that it was an unsolvable problem.

But I don’t agree it’s an unsolveable problem. That’s your position, dude. Do you really not understand that?

I am not making the argument ‘atheism is right and religion is wrong’. I am saying ‘atheism is not a belief system’. I am furthermore saying that if you read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, you will understand this bit of logic.

Instead its reduced to false attributions and accusations of trolling.

What false attribution have I made? I really don’t get the point of ‘light jabs’ when they’re boring old untrue chestnuts.

Pretty deeply dissappointed right now

I’m sorry, Windsagio. I think that you’re a very nice person, but your habit of wanting to drop a firecracker and then say “oh, I should remember people don’t like it when I do that” is just annoying as all hell.

315 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:50:41pm

re: #309 cliffster

You should consider moving to southern Missouri. You can go to a pretty nice joint and get a delicious burger, fries, and a few beers - all for around $10

Well, it’s not up to me. It’s up to my wife. She’s the superstar scientist, and Cornell is really the best place in the country— probably the world— for her career and research right now.

I just miss San Francisco. Rent was expensive, but you could get great, great, great food, tons of it, for really not that much.

316 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:51:42pm

For wozzablog and any other UK posters: here (in case you didn’t already know) is where you can view The Daily Show with Jon Stewart:

[Link: www.channel4.com…]

317 windsagio  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:51:58pm

re: #314 Obdicut

I said I was gonna drop out but I will add, I really do get surprised, about once per subject. I’ll add this to the list of ‘not safe to bring up’.

318 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:53:31pm

re: #304 garhighway

The Village is excellent, but super expensive.

The East Village might be worth a look: funky, safer than it used to be, and cheaper. A lot more character than the UES.

The East Village is awesome. The place to be in Manhattan :)

319 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:53:32pm

Hi, Jimmah!

320 darthstar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:53:49pm

WTF? The Reds/Giants game is tied 11-11 in the 12th inning. Reds were up 10-5 in the 8th, Giants got 6 runs, then the Reds got one in the 9th…the Giants have scored 38 runs in the last three games.

Alright…time to hit the road and listen to the end of this game on the radio.

Play nice, everyone.

321 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:55:13pm

re: #317 windsagio

I said I was gonna drop out but I will add, I really do get surprised, about once per subject. I’ll add this to the list of ‘not safe to bring up’.

It is fine to bring it up. But don’t bring it up and then declare that you’re too lazy to read something on it. If you had, actually, cited an article or a book that you said really explained your view, I really would go read it. Bringing up a subject and then saying you’re really not that interested in it, and that it can’t actually ever reach a conclusion— I just don’t get that.

Likewise with mentioning Israel, your other firecracker. It’s fine to mention it. It’s fine to talk about it. Just don’t expect people not to take it seriously, and be willing to actually hang in there.

322 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:55:16pm

re: #301 windsagio

I should remember that this isn’t a tough crowd, and that people can’t discuss things without getting pissy.

It was meant to be a lighthearted jab, kind of like a ‘aha I know we can’t resolve this, but I might as well get a shot in!’ And then we could have some fun going back and forth and then agree that it was an unsolvable problem.

Instead its reduced to false attributions and accusations of trolling.

Pretty deeply dissappointed right now.

Some of us have been on to your game for quite some time now.

323 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:55:48pm

re: #315 Obdicut

Well, it’s not up to me. It’s up to my wife. She’s the superstar scientist, and Cornell is really the best place in the country— probably the world— for her career and research right now.

I just miss San Francisco. Rent was expensive, but you could get great, great, great food, tons of it, for really not that much.

San Francisco is a great spot. I have a brother that lives up around your new digs. He loves it. Bitches about the cost all the time, though! I’m gonna go visit him sometime soon. If it’s a stay-awhile kind of trip, I’ll holler at you and let you buy me an $8 beer.

324 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:58:07pm

re: #321 Obdicut

It is fine to bring it up. But don’t bring it up and then declare that you’re too lazy to read something on it. If you had, actually, cited an article or a book that you said really explained your view, I really would go read it. Bringing up a subject and then saying you’re really not that interested in it, and that it can’t actually ever reach a conclusion— I just don’t get that.

Likewise with mentioning Israel, your other firecracker. It’s fine to mention it. It’s fine to talk about it. Just don’t expect people not to take it seriously, and be willing to actually hang in there.

I’m not sure there is any subject that one cannot discuss here if it is approached respectfully. (Not that I am claiming I uniformly achieve that.)

325 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:58:11pm

re: #323 cliffster

San Francisco is a great spot. I have a brother that lives up around your new digs. He loves it. Bitches about the cost all the time, though! I’m gonna go visit him sometime soon. If it’s a stay-awhile kind of trip, I’ll holler at you and let you buy me an $8 beer.

That’d be great. There’s actually a nice bar near me— still expensive, but nice— called American Trash.

[Link: www.nycamericantrash.com…]

326 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:58:12pm

re: #126 researchok

Please cite for me the ‘equal record’ of Christian and/or Jewish fundamentalists that have an similar track record of violence, rape and murder directed at gays, women and other religious minorities.

Hmmm. Does this challenge have a specified calendar range?

I mean, if you’re going to limit me to some specific set of decades you’ve chosen as the only ones that matter I probably can’t. Give me the entire duration of each faith, and I could absolutely find long long lists of Christian and Jewish atrocities sufficient to rival the Muslims’ record.

327 HoosierHoops  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:59:13pm

re: #307 Jimmah

Cheers, Hoops! Great here, still busy with home improvements and enjopying the last of the summer here in Scotland. Ice is still on the mend - hospital again tomorrow.

You tell Ice to get well..I signed the moving contract today and I’m moving also It was a race to see who moved first..She won..So Tonight I was looking at my Strat an Amp and Keyboard and I’ll pack it up this weekend..So I pick up the Guitar..Turned it up the Ear shattering volume and started to write a song in E that really Rocked..
Here is what I have so far…

Next time you see me
I’m head’n down 44 west
Time for a road trip..
Let’s put it too the test

Next time you see me
I’m head’n it down South
The radio is blasting..
Let’s put this to the Test
-chorus-

No more cornfields….
No more empty fields
Saying goodbye to all my friends
Gotta hit the road… I Gotta fly
No more Cornfields
Just endless Highways

-Rap Voice-
I got wasps in the barn I got wasps at the pool.I got a dirty hot tub..Lights on the deck fool
Hug it out bitch’s.. just let it go..Watch’n my tailpipe..Head on down the road..
-The whole playing guitar in E…Thinking..Ok this sortof sounds good
Yea I Know i’m so rusty I make the Tin Man look fast)
-Pause-
( Now we do the whole Freddie Mercury voice thing with Brian Mays Shredding the Guitar)

I’m in a Corn field.. Nobody loves me
He’s in a cornfield.. Nobody loves him
Hallelujah Hallifauh Figueroa Figueroa
Hallelujah Hallifauh Figueroa Figueroa

So you think you can run away.. Oh mama..On the road today?
So you think you can just blow away? Mama? Oh Mama..
Run away..Run away?
Oh mama,, Fig giro fig giro!!


( Then Mays shreds your face off with a solo)


Next time you see me
I’m head’n down 44 west
Time for a road trip..
Let’s put it too the test

Oh mama..What are you going to do baby..
Route 44 baby.
Got to work it out
Got to work it out baby.

328 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:59:18pm

re: #322 Cato the Elder

Some of us have been on to your game for quite some time now.

I don’t consider it a game. That’s not what I’m saying.

329 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:59:46pm

re: #319 Cato the Elder

Hi, Jimmah!

Hi there Cato! Ice says ‘Hi’. I have her walled up in my secret mountain lair, making rice pudding. Speaking of walls, here’s one I think you’ll recognise:

Image: hadrians-wall02.jpg

330 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:00:52pm

re: #329 Jimmah

It’s just a wee little thing!

Is more of it underground?

331 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:02:54pm

re: #326 sagehen

Hmmm. Does this challenge have a specified calendar range?

I mean, if you’re going to limit me to some specific set of decades you’ve chosen as the only ones that matter I probably can’t. Give me the entire duration of each faith, and I could absolutely find long long lists of Christian and Jewish atrocities sufficient to rival the Muslims’ record.

I was referring to the modern era.

332 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:04:32pm

re: #329 Jimmah

Hi there Cato! Ice says ‘Hi’. I have her walled up in my secret mountain lair, making rice pudding. Speaking of walls, here’s one I think you’ll recognise:

Image: hadrians-wall02.jpg

You know, I never yet made it that far north.

Looking forward to the most frabjous day when I can set out on my walking tour north of the limes, with my ultimate destination being your lair in Sco’land.

333 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:05:21pm

Temp is now down to 105. Whew! Thank goodness. 110 a few hours ago was brutal!

334 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:06:06pm

Here we go again with the domestic radical Islamist terrorism.

Two Arrested In Ottawa In Alleged Terror Plot
Two alleged members of an Ottawa terrorism cell that police believe were plotting to attack Canadian targets were arrested Wednesday morning.
A young Muslim couple in their 30s was arrested in a quiet neighbourhood in west-end Ottawa and charged with terrorism.
The pair had been tracked for months as part of an investigation by the RCMP’s national security unit and at least one of the suspects is alleged to have ties to high-level Al Qaeda affiliates abroad, sources close to the case told the Star. More arrests are expected.
A second location, a seven-storey apartment complex, about five kilometres away, was also raided. An apartment on the top floor was the focus of the search, the details of which police would not divulge.
Known as “Project Samosa,” the RCMP investigation reportedly began with intelligence passed on by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.
A press conference to announce the arrests is expected Thursday.
Residents were still in shock after police swept into the cul-de-sac around breakfast time and raided the home of the couple, who has a baby.
Besides the arrests, police seized a late-model Mazda and computer equipment.

Salma Siddiqui, Muslim Canadian Congress vice-president, told the Star’s Allan Woods that he was “livid and frustrated” by Wednesday’s arrests.
“It has to stop and why after what happened with Kwajha and the Toronto 18 would the young people — and that is an assumption that these are young people — why are they not understanding that this is not acceptable? Why are they still going on accepting the doctrine of jihad? That is where the whole problem is.”
[Link: www.thestar.com…]

335 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:06:34pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

You tell Ice to get well..I signed the moving contract today and I’m moving also It was a race to see who moved first..She won..So Tonight I was looking at my Strat an Amp and Keyboard and I’ll pack it up this weekend..So I pick up the Guitar..Turned it up the Ear shattering volume and started to write a song in E that really Rocked.

Will do. She sends her congrats on your move btw :) Good fun ‘battering fuck out of’* your guitar!

*Scottish for ‘playing’.

336 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:06:54pm

re: #328 Obdicut

I don’t consider it a game. That’s not what I’m saying.

I do consider it his game. And I think he’s an impish leftist troll.

That, of course, is the highest level of trolldom. (The “imp” part, at least.)

Still a troll, though.

337 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:07:12pm

re: #330 Obdicut

Sent you an email. Let me know if it gets through.

These internets tubes can be confusing.

338 Ghost of CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:07:46pm

re: #292 Obdicut

Especially while I’m trying to get more contracts for my consulting gig, I can’t be spending like that. I’m a skinflint.

What kind of consulting do you do? (If you don’t mind saying.)

339 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:08:02pm

re: #330 Obdicut

It’s just a wee little thing!

Is more of it underground?

It’s effectiveness was not so much in the physical structure itself, as the demeanour of the people standing immediately behind it :D

340 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:10:50pm

re: #332 Cato the Elder

You know, I never yet made it that far north.

Looking forward to the most frabjous day when I can set out on my walking tour north of the limes, with my ultimate destination being your lair in Sco’land.

Heh. Remember to bring a recently stolen sheep.

341 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:12:18pm

(Tread jacking alert sorry but haven’t seen anything I felt I could productively address in the last 10 min or so) Well for those of you who are interested I posted the story here, [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…] enjoy.

342 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:12:19pm

re: #339 Jimmah

It’s effectiveness was not so much in the physical structure itself, as the demeanour of the people standing immediately behind it :D

Indeed.

And given the military capabilities of the time, a wall was a most efficacious deterrent.

Manpower was cheap, so guarding it was not a problem until the Teutons on the Continent grew so obstreperous that the legions had to be redeployed.

If ravening hordes of Angles and Saxons ever head for Scotland to steal all the sheep, Hadrian’s Wall will still be a major asset to the defenders. Turn about is fair play.

343 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:13:35pm

re: #328 Obdicut

I don’t consider it a game. That’s not what I’m saying.

Yep. I like windsagio, no way is he a troll, although I don’t agree with him on this issue (that non-belief in a deity is in itself a belief system).

344 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:14:08pm

re: #336 Cato the Elder

I do consider it his game. And I think he’s an impish leftist troll.

That, of course, is the highest level of trolldom. (The “imp” part, at least.)

Still a troll, though.

Sorry. I meant:

Still a troll, tho’.

>>
oO
;p
9_9

345 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:14:21pm

re: #268 Obdicut

I work from home and live on the Upper East Side.

I haven’t been to central park yet.

My gmail is just my name here at gmail. Give me a mail.

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Johnny Dangerously, as said by Maureen Stapleton:

Ma Kelly: The Lower East Side…it really sucks!

/not that I’d know the difference between the Upper and Lower East Sides… ;-P

346 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:14:42pm

re: #341 jamesfirecat

(Tread jacking alert sorry but haven’t seen anything I felt I could productively address in the last 10 min or so) Well for those of you who are interested I posted the story here, [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…] enjoy.

We’re doing stories now?

Once the Newt/Rush slashfic pops up I am done with this place!

347 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:14:59pm

re: #253 garhighway

Absolutely.

I work downtown and live on the Upper West Side.

I love the Upper West Side. We stay at the Hotel Beacon on Broadway when we are in NYC.

348 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:17:33pm

re: #344 Cato the Elder

Of course he’s a troll. A useful troll.

349 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:17:52pm

re: #342 Cato the Elder

Indeed.

And given the military capabilities of the time, a wall was a most efficacious deterrent.

Manpower was cheap, so guarding it was not a problem until the Teutons on the Continent grew so obstreperous that the legions had to be redeployed.

IOW the Romans shat their load.

Rice pud is ready; see you guys later :)

350 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:17:54pm

re: #345 talon_262

/not that I’d know the difference between the Upper and Lower East Sides… ;-P

Just move the decimal point, I think…

351 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:18:26pm

re: #346 JasonA

We’re doing stories now?

Once the Newt/Rush slashfic pops up I am done with this place!

Ewwwwww…

352 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:18:36pm

re: #347 prairiefire

I love the Upper West Side. We stay at the Hotel Beacon on Broadway when we are in NYC.

That hotel is a good value. And the Beacon Theater is very nice now that it has been fixed up.

I used to come to Manhattan on business a lot, and I thought it was all Midtown: glass office buildings and such. But there really are a lot of cool neighborhoods that are residential in character.

But do NOT walk slowly on the sidewalks. We will run you over.

353 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:18:43pm

re: #349 Jimmah

IOW the Romans shat their load.

Rice pud is ready; see you guys later :)

You really shouldn’t bring both of things up in the same comment.

354 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:19:15pm

re: #346 JasonA

We’re doing stories now?

Once the Newt/Rush slashfic pops up I am done with this place!

…DAMN YOU!!!

*Goes for the drill and the brain bleach*

355 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:19:52pm

I just found out that the guy who built my workbench died last weekend. We joked about my workbench outlasting everything else in this town because it’s so solid, but I never thought about it outlasting its creator.

RIP Jason H.

356 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:19:54pm

re: #336 Cato the Elder

I do consider it his game. And I think he’s an impish leftist troll.

That, of course, is the highest level of trolldom. (The “imp” part, at least.)

Still a troll, though.

Well, he’s joining you in refusing to read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, so you agree on something.

357 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:06pm

re: #354 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

…DAMN YOU!!!

*Goes for the drill and the brain bleach*

Would Pelosi/Bachmann have been better?

358 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:11pm

re: #280 palomino

Where do you get off talking about gop tokenism? Republicans in Congress are only 91% male and 96% white. I dare you to refudiate that diversity.

Republicans in Congress are more than 96% white… there’s two Cubans from Florida, and since there’s some debate as to whether Jews count as white there’s Eric Cantor. But that’s it for non-whites in that caucus.

359 Jimmah  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:18pm

LOL @ the sheer irony of Spare O Lake calling anyone else a troll.

PS Windy - Ice says ‘Hi’! :)

Laters!

360 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:34pm

re: #353 JasonA

You really shouldn’t bring both of things up in the same comment.

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

361 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #357 JasonA

Would Pelosi/Bachmann have been better?

BURN THE WITCH!

/

362 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:21:36pm

sun is close to the horizon, means it’s less than 100 degrees. kids want to go play out back. we’ll see how long this lasts…

363 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:21:40pm

re: #356 Obdicut

Well, he’s joining you in refusing to read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, so you agree on something.

At least I have it on my Kindle.

And you have just acknowledged that he’s trolling. That’s progress.

364 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:21:53pm

From the ‘You just can’t make this stuff up department’

Woman’s Body Left in Hearse for 9 Days

A foul smell in Graham led police to a woman’s body they say had been in the back of a hearse for nine days.

Police in Graham are investigating how the body of 37-year-old Linda Walton was left unattended for so long.

The hearse is owned by David B. Lawson Mortuary, which now faces an investigation by the state agency that grants funeral licenses. Lawson declined to comment on the case Wednesday.

Lawson said when he picked up the body it was already bad decomposed and embalming did not help.

“I couldn’t leave her here. it was too much of a health hazard for the employees, for myself, for the people who would come in contact,” he said.

Paul Harris, executive director of the state Board of Funeral Service, declined to comment on the specifics of the case. If the board decides to discipline Lawson, punishments range from a warning to the loss of his license.

“We certainly don’t see this very often,” Harris said.

There’s more.

365 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:22:17pm

re: #360 talon_262

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

Rule 34.

366 Racer X  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:22:43pm

OT:

Might I just add that I think Pete Townshend’s “Empty Glass” is one of the best albums ever.


And I Moved-Pete Townshend

367 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:25:10pm

re: #360 talon_262

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

That is the most unsafe-for-work thing I’ve ever seen.

Good thing I’m unemployed.

368 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:26:10pm

re: #268 Obdicut

I work from home and live on the Upper East Side.

I haven’t been to central park yet.

My gmail is just my name here at gmail. Give me a mail.


The snow leopards at the Central Park Zoo are adorable.

For all other purposes, Riverside Park is much nicer than Central Park. There’s a river and everything.

369 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:26:22pm

re: #367 Cato the Elder

That is the most unsafe-for-work thing I’ve ever seen.

Good thing I’m unemployed.

At least it’s not live-action.

370 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:27:16pm

re: #315 Obdicut

My cousin lives on the Upper East side. I could ask him if he has any ideas.

371 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:27:45pm

re: #356 Obdicut

Well, he’s joining you in refusing to read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, so you agree on something.

Oh, and it’s not that I’m refusing to read DDI. I just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

It’s Dawkins’s book on God that I’m uninterested in, because I can’t conceive what benefit would accrue from reading the wankings of an evolutionary biologist prejudging theology.

372 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:28:00pm

re: #363 Cato the Elder

At least I have it on my Kindle.

And you have just acknowledged that he’s trolling. That’s progress.

Not really, Cato. I said that what he did with this amounts to trolling. I don’t think he’s a troll.

You post lots of deliberately inflammatory shit that amounts to trolling, too. That doesn’t make you a troll. You do lots of other stuff, too.

So does he.

Don’t fall back into your weird obsession about him.

373 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:29:06pm

re: #355 wrenchwench

I like your lizard gate avatar.

374 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:29:47pm

For my fellow Portlandiots….
Food Cart City

375 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:29:57pm

re: #372 Obdicut

Not really, Cato. I said that what he did with this amounts to trolling. I don’t think he’s a troll.

You post lots of deliberately inflammatory shit that amounts to trolling, too. That doesn’t make you a troll. You do lots of other stuff, too.

So does he.

Don’t fall back into your weird obsession about him.

I have no weird obsession about him. Just think he’s an asshole, is all.

YMMV.

376 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:30:48pm

re: #360 talon_262

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

re: #367 Cato the Elder

That is the most unsafe-for-work thing I’ve ever seen.

Good thing I’m unemployed.

Sorry, folks…definitely NSFW.

377 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:30:52pm

re: #260 Spare O’Lake

From your link, “They (employer and his family) did not allow me even to rest. The woman at the house had heated the nails and then the man inserted them into my body,”

Punishment by the Islamic State (Dutch site)

I recommend using auto-translation option in Google Chrome browser, Dutch to English. Partial (translated excerpt):

The question is, how is it that the punishment is prohibited by fire, but burning with a hot rod is permitted?

Answer:

If an iron rod or nail in hot fire is made and then the body of a person is placed, the combustion source is not itself placed on the body.

The question/answer is about the koranic prohibition against a form of double jeopardy — using “burning” as a form of earthly punishment of sinners who would be destined to perish in Allah’s fire anyway, in the Last Days.

The website is part of an organization that our State Department does not consider to be terrorist.

378 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:31:19pm

re: #360 talon_262

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

The bacon rocket was interesting.

379 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:31:51pm

re: #311 alexknyc

At this point, I’m not sure there’s a BAD cheap place to eat in Manhattan anymore.

Gray’s Papaya (hot dog joint) is cheap cheap cheap. And… not terrible. Open 24 hours.

Pizza Joint Too is reasonably cheap, very good, open til 4 am.

380 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:31:52pm

re: #360 talon_262

Otherwise, you’ll get the Wanky Shit Demon ;-P

I was thinking of the Golgothan shit demon.

381 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:32:14pm

re: #371 Cato the Elder

Oh, and it’s not that I’m refusing to read DDI. I just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

It’s Dawkins’s book on God that I’m uninterested in, because I can’t conceive what benefit would accrue from reading the wankings of an evolutionary biologist prejudging theology.

And again: Dawkins isn’t the least bit interested in theology. The book is about a scientific view of the look at belief in god. That isn’t theology, at all.

I think it’s inferior to Darwin’s Dangerous Idea in the strength of its arguments.

382 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:32:17pm

re: #372 Obdicut

In a normal organism most inflammation leads to increased blood flow and eventual healing.

383 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:33:22pm

Looks like the talking points on the cabbie attack are congealing around the fact that the attacker worked at a company that also happened to have a pro-Park51 account.

Instapundit, working off Jim Hoft, is running with that meme:

Jim Hoft had this story earlier and it seemed so incredible that I held off for comfirmation. Then again, when the “anti-muslim attacker” in NYC turns out to be a pro-mosque worker, anything is possible. And can we have some apologies, please? Once again, violence for which the Tea Party is blamed turns out to come from the left.

The guy wasn’t a pro-mosque worker. But thanks for playing.

The best analogy to this company is that it’s a film studio - one that produced works by Spielberg, but had a deal with Mel Gibson (the attacker being Gibson - down to the inebriated state).

384 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:34:10pm

re: #375 Cato the Elder

I have no weird obsession about him. Just think he’s an asshole, is all.

YMMV.

Most obsessed people don’t consider themselves obsessed about the object of their obsession, you know.

When you do a fake flounce based on his presence here— it’s pretty obsessed, dude. When you can’t stop yourself from insulting him even after Charles has warned you about it— also pretty obsessed.

385 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:35:51pm

OT:

Know we got some zombie fans in here, but don’t know if they’ve heard about this. AMC’s got a live-action adaptation of The Walking Dead starting up in October (Halloween night, appropriately), and they revealed the trailer at Comic-Con:

386 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:36:01pm

re: #380 Alouette

I was thinking of the Golgothan shit demon.

[Video]

As did I

387 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:36:24pm

re: #383 lawhawk

I’m still on the fence with that one. He could have just been working with them for professional reasons. He might have flipped out over the anti-mosque rhetoric. He might have been black out drunk and having a psychotic episode. We’ll have to wait and learn more.

388 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:36:55pm

re: #377 abolitionist

From your link, “They (employer and his family) did not allow me even to rest. The woman at the house had heated the nails and then the man inserted them into my body,”

Punishment by the Islamic State (Dutch site)

I recommend using auto-translation option in Google Chrome browser, Dutch to English. Partial (translated excerpt):


The question/answer is about the koranic prohibition against a form of double jeopardy — using “burning” as a form of earthly punishment of sinners who would be destined to perish in Allah’s fire anyway, in the Last Days.

The website is part of an organization that our State Department does not consider to be terrorist.

For women, Islamist Religious Zealotry = Torture

389 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:36:58pm

re: #331 researchok

I was referring to the modern era.

The Nazis considered themselves Christians, Italian fascists were Catholic. Shall we attribute their score to Team Jesus?

390 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:37:31pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

That fries truck…I could do some damage there.

391 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:37:54pm

re: #378 garhighway

The bacon rocket was interesting.

Man, you made me look.

392 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:38:42pm

re: #345 talon_262

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Johnny Dangerously, as said by Maureen Stapleton:

Ma Kelly: The Lower East Side…it really sucks!

/not that I’d know the difference between the Upper and Lower East Sides… ;-P

Have you ever seen “Crossing Delancy”? That’s the Lower East Side.

If you’ve seen “Gossip Girl”, that’s the Upper East Side.

393 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:39:17pm

re: #253 garhighway

Absolutely.

I work downtown and live on the Upper West Side.

hey neighbor!

394 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:40:33pm

re: #392 sagehen

Have you ever seen “Crossing Delancy”? That’s the Lower East Side.

If you’ve seen “Gossip Girl”, that’s the Upper East Side.

Never watched either of those shows…

395 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:41:37pm

re: #103 Aceofwhat?

not Shinto?

Oops, missed this question.

They’re always Shinto. Shintoism in Japan is pretty indelibly tired up with being Japanese. But you can be a Zen Buddhist and still follow Shinto traditions as well.

They were very explicitly Zen Buddhist, though obviously a corruption of any decent philosophy or theology of that belief. It’s just another example of a religion being perverted to serve secular ends.

396 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:42:07pm

re: #383 lawhawk

Looks like the talking points on the cabbie attack are congealing around the fact that the attacker worked at a company that also happened to have a pro-Park51 account.

Instapundit, working off Jim Hoft, is running with that meme:

The guy wasn’t a pro-mosque worker. But thanks for playing.

The best analogy to this company is that it’s a film studio - one that produced works by Spielberg, but had a deal with Mel Gibson (the attacker being Gibson - down to the inebriated state).

“Oh yeah, it’s best to wait for confirmation, but since I’ve got all the facts I need, I’m gonna demand some apologies.”

Frakin’ tool.

397 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:42:57pm

re: #389 sagehen

The Nazis considered themselves Christians, Italian fascists were Catholic. Shall we attribute their score to Team Jesus?

The Nazis did not really consider themselves Christians and the Italian regime hardly considered themselves orthodox Catholics.

My exchange was in reference to a remark that referred to American evangelicals as some of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’.

As for teams, how shall we classify Stalin, Mao, et al?

398 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:42:58pm

re: #396 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I also haven’t actually seen anyone accuse him of being a Tea Party member. No one here did it, anyway.

399 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:44:49pm

re: #393 sagehen

hey neighbor!

Howdy!

400 Kragar  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:45:50pm

re: #385 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Know we got some zombie fans in here, but don’t know if they’ve heard about this. AMC’s got a live-action adaptation of The Walking Dead starting up in October (Halloween night, appropriately), and they revealed the trailer at Comic-Con:

[Video]

I’m waiting to see more of this:

401 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:46:47pm

re: #395 Obdicut

Oops, missed this question.

They’re always Shinto. Shintoism in Japan is pretty indelibly tired up with being Japanese. But you can be a Zen Buddhist and still follow Shinto traditions as well.

They were very explicitly Zen Buddhist, though obviously a corruption of any decent philosophy or theology of that belief. It’s just another example of a religion being perverted to serve secular ends.

Obdi - I’m just going to point out - some Christians here have tried to make the “corruption of any decent philosophy” argument at different times here (most specifically, with regard to the evil Phelps clan); and have been excoriated for it.

However, I do happen to agree with you; religion can be (and has been) perverted to serve secular and/or selfish ends.

402 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:46:56pm

re: #397 researchok

The Nazis did not really consider themselves Christians and the Italian regime hardly considered themselves orthodox Catholics.

My exchange was in reference to a remark that referred to American evangelicals as some of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’.

As for teams, how shall we classify Stalin, Mao, et al?

Didn’t Stalin follow an ideology that declared, among other things, “religion is the opiate of the masses”? So we can call him team non-religious.

Mao I’m not sure about. Confucian maybe? Or Tao? I dunno.

403 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:47:00pm

re: #397 researchok

The Nazis did not really consider themselves Christians and the Italian regime hardly considered themselves orthodox Catholics.

My exchange was in reference to a remark that referred to American evangelicals as some of the ‘nastiest elements of humanity’.

As for teams, how shall we classify Stalin, Mao, et al?

Well, I’d go by the public pronouncements of what the Nazis and Italian Fascists said, rather than any claims of telepathy.

And Stalin, Mao, etc’s body counts definitely count towards the “Atheist” score.

But I still say that the body count game ends up making everybody look so bad that by the time you’re done counting, there’s really no point.

404 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:47:30pm

re: #397 researchok

There were both anti-clerical and pro-Catholic Italian fascists. I will grant that the top Nazis created a melange of Christianity and weird mystic bullshit, but it was still rooted in Christianity. The average Nazi party member was also a Christian. I do not think that Christianity in any way inspired the Nazism, however.

405 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:47:30pm

re: #384 Obdicut

Most obsessed people don’t consider themselves obsessed about the object of their obsession, you know.

When you do a fake flounce based on his presence here— it’s pretty obsessed, dude. When you can’t stop yourself from insulting him even after Charles has warned you about it— also pretty obsessed.

So one person on this blog is insult-proof?

As an equal-opportunity insulter, I didn’t know that.

I think I was “warned” sufficiently to know when I’m going over the top, and have not done so here or in recent days.

Of course, if Windsagio belongs now to the élite untouchables, I would ask that Charles please ban me now.

406 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:47:53pm

re: #402 sagehen

Mao I’m not sure about. Confucian maybe? Or Tao? I dunno.

Pulls in 3,000 years of Chinese history. Not gonna be good there.

407 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:49:25pm

re: #401 reine.de.tout

Obdi - I’m just going to point out - some Christians here have tried to make the “corruption of any decent philosophy” argument at different times here (most specifically, with regard to the evil Phelps clan); and have been excoriated for it.

However, I do happen to agree with you; religion can be (and has been) perverted to serve secular and/or selfish ends.

Well, I think that any time a religion is used to justify secular stuff, it’s a perversion of it. I think a lot of modern Christians would disagree with that.

408 garhighway  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:50:08pm

Calling it a night.

Adios.

409 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:50:25pm

re: #405 Cato the Elder

So one person on this blog is insult-proof?

As an equal-opportunity insulter, I didn’t know that.

But you’re not. You pick on him. A lot. And you did cite him specifically in your fake flounce. That’s pretty extreme.

I think I was “warned” sufficiently to know when I’m going over the top, and have not done so here or in recent days.

Yep.

Of course, if Windsagio belongs now to the élite untouchables, I would ask that Charles please ban me now.

Whatever, dude.

410 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:51:22pm

re: #403 elbruce

Well, I’d go by the public pronouncements of what the Nazis and Italian Fascists said, rather than any claims of telepathy.

The Italian fascists did really start out from an anti-Catholic position, that moderated over time.

411 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:51:31pm

re: #405 Cato the Elder

So one person on this blog is insult-proof?

As an equal-opportunity insulter, I didn’t know that.

I think I was “warned” sufficiently to know when I’m going over the top, and have not done so here or in recent days.

Of course, if Windsagio belongs now to the élite untouchables, I would ask that Charles please ban me now.

Obdicute thrives on this useless internecine shit…just try to ignore him.

412 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:53:58pm

re: #404 Obdicut

There were both anti-clerical and pro-Catholic Italian fascists. I will grant that the top Nazis created a melange of Christianity and weird mystic bullshit, but it was still rooted in Christianity. The average Nazi party member was also a Christian. I do not think that Christianity in any way inspired the Nazism, however.

All true, but the inference of the comment was that the Nazis were a part of orthodox Christianity.

I absolutely agree- Christianity did not inspire Nazism in any way, shape or form.

I do believe that the Nazis used Christian symbolism and ritual as a model for their pageantry and identity.

413 Nimed  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:54:06pm

Chait’s blog

Rush Limbaugh’s Craziest Remark Ever

The man is truly wrong about everything:

LIMBAUGH:”I’ve said constantly [that] it’s the left that looks at people and puts them in a group and then defines them thus,” Limbaugh contended. “Elton John’s not a gay man to me; Elton John is the premier performer of his generation.”

My God. The premier performer of his generation?

414 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:54:16pm

re: #409 Obdicut

Whatever, dude.

Right back at you.

415 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:54:37pm

re: #407 Obdicut

Well, I think that any time a religion is used to justify secular stuff, it’s a perversion of it. I think a lot of modern Christians would disagree with that.

There is good secular stuff and bad secular stuff.
A real atheist would argue that religion was invented to justify the good secular stuff, but has all too often been perverted to justify the bad secular stuff.

416 Skeetghazi  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:55:04pm

re: #383 lawhawk

Looks like the talking points on the cabbie attack are congealing around the fact that the attacker worked at a company that also happened to have a pro-Park51 account.

Instapundit, working off Jim Hoft, is running with that meme:

The guy wasn’t a pro-mosque worker. But thanks for playing.

The best analogy to this company is that it’s a film studio - one that produced works by Spielberg, but had a deal with Mel Gibson (the attacker being Gibson - down to the inebriated state).

This was pretty much called earlier. They wouldn’t pipe in on the event until they had their angle. Jerks.

I’m surprised the drunk out of his mind defense isn’t taking hold yet though.

417 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:55:21pm

re: #410 Obdicut

The Italian fascists did really start out from an anti-Catholic position, that moderated over time.

Yeah, that’s a great story in itself.

The push back against ‘their’ church made a lot of Italians wary.

418 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:58:10pm

re: #413 Nimed

Chait’s blog

Rush Limbaugh’s Craziest Remark Ever

The man is truly wrong about everything:

My God. The premier performer of his generation?

He could have said Boy George.

419 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:59:03pm

re: #379 sagehen

Gray’s Papaya (hot dog joint) is cheap cheap cheap. And… not terrible. Open 24 hours.

Pizza Joint Too is reasonably cheap, very good, open til 4 am.

Ah, the Gray’s recession special (2 dogs and soda for $2.50)… not too shabby…

420 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:59:08pm

re: #412 researchok

All true, but the inference of the comment was that the Nazis were a part of orthodox Christianity.

I absolutely agree- Christianity did not inspire Nazism in any way, shape or form.

I do believe that the Nazis used Christian symbolism and ritual as a model for their pageantry and identity.

Likewise, atheism didn’t inspire Mao or Stalin. Atheism was just a part of Communism, a part that was often paid only lip service. It was useful for taking the assets from the religions, of course, but Henry VIII did that too— while forming a new religion.

421 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:01:16pm

re: #416 Stanley Sea

Considering that the drunk as a skunk defense is probably the only thing that will keep this guy from serious prison time, yeah.. .I agree.

422 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:01:16pm

re: #379 sagehen

Thanks for the suggestion.

Where should we go for really good New York Pizza?

423 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:03:30pm

I don’t believe that he came to this realization recently, but that’s just my suspicion

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:06:07pm

re: #42 elbruce

So we can assume he’ll be going to Homocon?

no no, Gaylaxicon

425 prairiefire  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:07:27pm

re: #424 WindUpBird

no no, Gaylaxicon

That looks like a great time.

426 palomino  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:09:15pm

re: #358 sagehen

Republicans in Congress are more than 96% white… there’s two Cubans from Florida, and since there’s some debate as to whether Jews count as white there’s Eric Cantor. But that’s it for non-whites in that caucus.

I think there are a couple of Asians—Joseph Cao from LA, and maybe one from Hawaii.

But even if they have a whopping 4% non-white caucus, it’s hard to see the gop as the party of the future if they continue their less than successful outreach to blacks, hispanics, gays and muslims.

427 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:11:36pm

re: #420 Obdicut

Likewise, atheism didn’t inspire Mao or Stalin. Atheism was just a part of Communism, a part that was often paid only lip service. It was useful for taking the assets from the religions, of course, but Henry VIII did that too— while forming a new religion.

Evil is evil is evil.

It has no need for a cloak.

428 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:13:19pm

re: #245 researchok

I don’t know where you are going with all this.

You made the remark that the Christian right were ‘part if the nastiest part of humanity’. The remark is absurd.

You did not need to take a shovel and start digging.

I don’t know about the nastiest part, but there are members of the political Christian right (meaning they’re primarily a political force that uses religion, not a religious group that’s politically active) who are pretty goddamn nasty

Maybe not the nastiest part of humanity, but you can see Richard Cohen and his psycho ilk from there

429 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:13:29pm

re: #426 palomino

I think there are a couple of Asians—Joseph Cao from LA, and maybe one from Hawaii.

GOP Congressional Campaign Committee Has No Plans To Defend Its Asian-American Members

Cao and Djou are both out in the cold this cycle. No reason given.

430 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:13:35pm

re: #425 prairiefire

That looks like a great time.

I totally want to go, but I already go to enough cons as it is :D

431 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:14:22pm

re: #412 researchok

All true, but the inference of the comment was that the Nazis were a part of orthodox Christianity.

I absolutely agree- Christianity did not inspire Nazism in any way, shape or form.

I do believe that the Nazis used Christian symbolism and ritual as a model for their pageantry and identity.

I recall a brick thru a stained glass window in one of the Nazi’s propaganda films. It seemed to be presented as something the Nazi’s were championing.

432 webevintage  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:17:26pm

re: #413 Nimed

My God. The premier performer of his generation?

Don’t be hating on Elton John….

433 researchok  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:18:16pm

re: #428 WindUpBird

I don’t know about the nastiest part, but there are members of the political Christian right (meaning they’re primarily a political force that uses religion, not a religious group that’s politically active) who are pretty goddamn nasty

Maybe not the nastiest part of humanity, but you can see Richard Cohen and his psycho ilk from there

I don’t disagree at all. I abhor the Christian right’s politics and agenda.

To say however they are the ‘nastiest part of humanity’ is absurd.

434 sagehen  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:29:03pm

re: #422 Obdicut

Thanks for the suggestion.

Where should we go for really good New York Pizza?

Now that Vinnie’s is closed (*sob*), I usually go to Big Nick’s Buger & Pizza Joint

(they’ve got a couple locations on Broadway too).

Ignore most of the menu. The pizzas and burgers are excellent, but everything else (even the fries) is hit or miss.

435 Vambo  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:45:15pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

He doesn’t understand why gay voters don’t make cause with the GOP because of Islamic jihad? Ken, when your party’s biggest faces are guys like the Reverends Falwell and Robertson who said on TV after 9-11 that this happened because we tolerate gays and lesbians, gay voters aren’t going to gravitate towards that party nor will they gravitate a party that used gay marriage opposition to win re-election for its candidates. I’m glad that the guy is able to feel open about who he is but I think he’s clueless to why gay voters by and large are skeptical of the Republican party.

I think they honestly expect us to just ignore all that. It’s obviously a big joke to the establishment GOP - they use gays as a wedge issue for the walnut-brained Bible Belt voters, and then run around, Roman emperor-style, with young interns. And then people like Mehlman are shocked when nobody “gets it”. We get the joke, buddy, it’s just that some of us still have a conscience.

436 Centrist  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:49:20pm

What’s the diff between lgf and lgf2?

437 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:54:52pm

re: #436 Centrist

Dear god, learn some subtlety.

438 cliffster  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:56:01pm

re: #436 Centrist

What’s the diff between lgf and lgf2?

nothing, really. 2 > 1. you should go to 2

439 skullkrusher  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:09:10pm

re: #434 sagehen

Now that Vinnie’s is closed (*sob*), I usually go to Big Nick’s Buger & Pizza Joint

(they’ve got a couple locations on Broadway too).

Ignore most of the menu. The pizzas and burgers are excellent, but everything else (even the fries) is hit or miss.

if you’re already in the ‘hood, check out Freddie and Peppers for pizza. Much better than Big Nick’s IMO. If you’re getting burgers up here, 100% without a doubt spend the time online at Shake Shack on Columbus. You will not be disappointed. Shacky Road Concrete too if yer feeling like a fatass :)

440 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:18:25pm

re: #435 Vambo

I think they honestly expect us to just ignore all that. It’s obviously a big joke to the establishment GOP - they use gays as a wedge issue for the walnut-brained Bible Belt voters, and then run around, Roman emperor-style, with young interns. And then people like Mehlman are shocked when nobody “gets it”. We get the joke, buddy, it’s just that some of us still have a conscience.

Honestly, it wouldn’t shock me if in twenty years or so you’ll see GOP officials admitting that they used this as a wedge issue and that they personally did not care one way or the other about gay marriage. I believe there were similiar stories with Civil Rights issues. Believe George Wallace had a story about how he lost by talking about better roads and schools but did better once he started blaming the blacks for everything. Wouldn’t shock me at all if this is true with gays.

441 Lidane  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:29:49pm

re: #440 HappyWarrior

Wouldn’t shock me at all if this is true with gays.

Of course it’s true for gays. It’s also true for Latinos, women, Muslims, and every other minority group.

It’s the Atwater playbook writ large. Convince the bigots, the knuckle-draggers and the far right religious types that you speak their language by throwing out red meat about gays, women, minorities, or anyone you can turn into an “other” and you’ll have those people sending you money and supporting your candidacy.

442 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:30:33pm
443 Lidane  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:38:50pm

re: #436 Centrist

One of them is filled with reasonable, articulate people who can have a civilized discussion without devolving into incoherence. The other is LGF2.

444 tradewind  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:57:44pm

re: #429 elbruce
They must be two of the deck chairs that the head Dems don’t feel are worth rearranging.
Re that, who writes these headlines for Politico?
’ Privately ’ ? LOL.
[Link: www.politico.com…]

445 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:38:18pm

re: #442 elbruce

FYI: ixnay on directly linking the stalker site, elbruce.

446 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:17:54pm

re: #442 elbruce

We don’t link to the stalker sites, elbruce…we don’t want the funk to slink over here.

447 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:19:20pm

re: #446 talon_262

We don’t link to the stalker sites, elbruce…we don’t want the funk to slink over here.


Well, we also don’t want them getting traffic.

448 elbruce  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:22:25pm

Oh, OK…

449 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:25:10pm

re: #448 elbruce

Oh, OK…

Yeah, no one’s mad at you. It’s just that certain sites like that, or pure hate sites, don’t get linked here.

450 sffilk  Thu, Aug 26, 2010 6:56:05am

re: #25 Racer X

Dude is cute!

Image: 4B15DE4DE5B86AF8D7E502_Large.jpg

I’d agree with that. Is he single?

451 sffilk  Thu, Aug 26, 2010 6:57:02am

re: #26 Racer X

Oh crap, I did not just say that out loud.

So what if you did?


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