Absolutely nothing at all. To do with it. At all.

That just breaks my heart.

Peedom of religion.

another drunk...so what. Do we have to have everything be about politics?

Obviously he is a plant by some liberal group to discredit the anti-muslim crowd.

Dumb-fucks like this feed into the hatred by the Islamists.

re: #3 Ojoe

Peedom of religion.

LOL...all men are pee-er's or is that peers?

He probably thought he was in a mass transit station.

/you would get the joke if you rode MARTA in Atlanta.

I can't tell whether the first 4 comments, Ojoe excluded, are serious or sarc.
:/

Ah booze, your wonderful loosening of inhibitions works its magic once again.

This story will whiz around the world.

Of course his name would have to be "Rivera.'

This might set off a rain of terror/

I got a great talking point for Fox:

"They were both drunk! But the Left does not scream to bring back Prohibition! Aha! So they don't care about the actual motivation! They just use these incidents as a political correct pretext to steal our First Amendment Right to crank out anti-muslim bullshit 24/7! Don't retreat, reload!"

$5 we will be reading or hearing this or a variation thereof soon.

re: #6 MandyManners

Dumb-fucks like this feed into the hatred.

Fixed.

re: #9 Varek Raith

It is all sarc now.

What else is there?

2 Kings 9:8 For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the walland him that is shut up and left in Israel:

It was prophesied. /

We had better get a grappa on this extremism.

This guy was obviously a hoser.

re: #19 DaddyG

This guy was obviously a hoser.

Take off, eh?

The drunk wanted a pissing match. Now everyone will get soaked.

While bad and sick, this action was not funded by foreign governments, not condoned by national leaders, did not take months of planning, training, coordination and communication across continents, and involved only the cost of a bottle of cheap booze. Cleanup can be within a day or two, with new prayer rugs available locally. Above all, no injuries or deaths and the perpetrator did not hide in a cave and blame others. Punishment will likely be concluded in a week or so.

Is it true that the arresting officer said to the drunk "Urine big trouble"?

According to the Poison Dwarf, the Muslim Brotherhood and I are joined at the hip:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

What a yellow thing to do.

OK I'll stop.

Does anyone have streaming video of the incident?

re: #25 Ojoe

OK I'll stop.

Just be sure to shake the last few puns out before putting it away.

re: #25 Ojoe

OK I'll stop.

Holding back can be bad for you.

Spencer categorically denies that his hate mongering has anything to do with anything at all. Totally harmless, he has no responsibility whatsoever. Same liar's game he always plays.

Is AA a party now?

I don't think this is funny at all.

I think it's damn sad.

I cannot believe this shit;

Campaigners say Ground Zero mosque plans led to taxi murder attempt

Campaigners against plans to build a mosque near the Ground Zero site condemned the project for stoking tensions they claim led to the attempted murder of a Muslim taxi driver.
...
Yesterday Mr Pataki said: "That's why the mosque, the cultural centre should not be built there." He said that those backing the project to build the Park51 [the Islamic centre] two blocks from the site of the September 11 attacks were "deliberately provoking emotions".

Classic "Look what you made me do" rhetortic.

Fuck you Pataki.

And Spencer says it might have been a "fake hate crime," staged by CAIR.

re: #29 Charles Yeah- I just handed him the kerosine and the lighter. I didn't expect him to use it.

Idiot.

Drunk people obviously pose a great danger to our way of life.

No bar at Ground Zero!

Look, this behavior is despicable, but I cannot resist the urge to make a "Big Lebowski" joke about urinating on rugs...

re: #29 Charles

Spencer categorically denies that his hate mongering has anything to do with anything at all. Totally harmless, he has no responsibility whatsoever. Same liar's game he always plays.

Now they're blaming the Park51 people for the incidents, claiming they're stirring up the situtation.

re: #33 Charles

And Spencer says it might have been a "fake hate crime," staged by CAIR.

Right. And Enright's diary entries were all part of the plot!

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I cannot believe this shit;

Campaigners say Ground Zero mosque plans led to taxi murder attempt

Classic "Look what you made me do" rhetortic.

Fuck you Pataki.

Now that's serendipity. I just mentioned him on the last thread, recognizing him as a good governor. This doesn't change that, but it does make him a bit of an assclown.

re: #31 Stanley Sea

I don't think this is funny at all.

I think it's damn sad.

Humor is one way of dealing with tragedy. I would say the same jokes if it had happened in my church. Although I am sorry if it offended you. I will stop now.

re: #9 Varek Raith

I can't tell whether the first 4 comments, Ojoe excluded, are serious or sarc.
:/

I hope #2 was not sarc. i updinged it because i find this disheartening. if someone came in my church and yelled racial slurs then urinated on the floor, i would hope that his ass would be promptly kicked. then we would pray for him.

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Predictable. If only those pesky Muslims weren't so damn Muslim.

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now they're blaming the Park51 people for the incidents, claiming they're stirring up the situtation.

Then I'll blame Spencer for inciting me to kick him in the nuts.

re: #43 Varek Raith

Then I'll blame Spencer for inciting me to kick him in the nuts.

Spencer has nuts?

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My irony meter is pinned.

First, they'll deny the anti-mosque incitement has anything to do with the crime.

Then they'll use the crime as an argument in more anti-mosque incitement.

re: #40 DaddyG

Humor is one way of dealing with tragedy. I would say the same jokes if it had happened in my church. Although I am sorry if it offended you. I will stop now.

Ah, no. Carry on. I'm just registering my own feelings.

Heh, just got a slight reading on my radar.

re: #44 JasonA

Spencer has nuts?

Good point.
Also, he'd have to get up on a ladder.

re: #41 zora

...I would hope that his ass would be promptly kicked. then we would pray for him.

Heh. OK I can't help but laugh about that.

re: #42 erraticsphinx

Predictable. If only those pesky Muslims weren't so damn Muslim.

"Yeah I gave her a black eye. She knows how mad I can get. She should have known better."

Enough worrying about Alms for the Poor, mosque goers. Clearly you should be watching out for #1.

Yeah, there's a funny smell in here suddenly.

re: #9 Varek Raith
LARGE sarc.

Ruh roh

But his first name is Omar??
I'm ...once again ...confused!!/

re: #52 Charles

Yeah, there's a funny smell in here suddenly.

Did a suspicous I.P.ee address just show up?

/I couldn't resist.

re: #35 JasonA

Drunk people obviously pose a great danger to our way of life.

No bar at Ground Zero!

HOW CAN YOU HAVE A STRIP CLUB AT GROUND ZERO WITHOUT BOOZE? QUIT BEING SO DAMN INTOLERANT!

re: #51 skullkrusher

What?

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now they're blaming the Park51 people for the incidents, claiming they're stirring up the situtation.

"Bitch asked for it by exercising her rights."

re: #51 skullkrusher

Enough worrying about Alms for the Poor, mosque goers. Clearly you should be watching out for #1.

Never mind, I got it. Slow on the uptake today.

re: #35 JasonA

Drunk people obviously pose a great danger to our way of life.

No bar at Ground Zero!

From my 6 years of undergraduate drinking, I can empathize with a sudden urge to pee. However, even in my most inebriated state, I could still comprehend where I was doing it. This drunk knew where he was aiming and where he was. He is guilty. No excuses.

re: #33 Charles

And Spencer says it might have been a "fake hate crime," staged by CAIR.

Yeah, it's all a great conspiracy. Doesn't matter how moronic the shit you have to come up with so you can keep clinging to your bias. The Daily Show's latest piece on this is brilliant, exposing the paranoid mindset of these people.

re: #36 armylaw

That rug really tied the room together, dude.

This and the cabbie stabbing incident do however give some insight as to why Islam categorically forbids the use of aldohol...

I generally try not to interfere with my children's relationships but if I even catch a hint of blame the victim* coming from their dates I will step in and let them know they are playing a game that will end badly for them.

* or subtle variations like I can't keep my hands to myself becuase you are so good looking. If you want me to be happy you will go along with my plans. I'm dating you not your friends/family/parents...

Staged hate crimes have happened but, I've never heard of one that involved brutal assault.

Spencer reminds me of Borat's sidekick.

re: #67 Fozzie Bear

Spencer reminds me of Borat's sidekick.

Azama

re: #62 000G

Yeah, it's all a great conspiracy. Doesn't matter how moronic the shit you have to come up with so you can keep clinging to your bias. The Daily Show's latest piece on this is brilliant, exposing the paranoid mindset of these people.

This was brilliant. I just said on the last thread that the segment almost made me pee myself. How's that for a coincidence?

re: #63 im_gumby_damnit

That rug really tied the room together, dude.

Don't mess with Je-SUS!!!

What was the upshot on the allegedly flushed Koran?

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

Azama

Yeah that guy. Visually I mean. Azamat was probably much more of a Mensch than Spencer could ever hope to be.

re: #71 MandyManners

What do mean by "upshot" ??

re: #73 reloadingisnotahobby

What do mean by "upshot" ??

I can see your mind is in the gutter.

Sneaking it in.

re: #69 DaddyG

This was brilliant. I just said on the last thread that the segment almost made me pee myself. How's that for a coincidence?

A coincidence... or... a conspiracy?

On a related note: How is the "anti-jihad"-movement under the guide of Geller and Spencer any different from the John Birch Society, only they exchanged "Communist" with "Muslim" and "Communism" with "Islam"?

Would an appropriate punishment for this guy be to send him home to his parents so that his mother can browbeat him and then otherwise make him feel like the complete tool that he acted as?

re: #74 DaddyG

She brought it up!!
(duck)

re: #71 MandyManners

What was the upshot on the allegedly flushed Koran?

That was a lie. It never happened.

re: #73 reloadingisnotahobby

What do mean by "upshot" ??

Out-come.

re: #71 MandyManners

What was the upshot on the allegedly flushed Koran?

Don't know that one, but the Fla church Koran burning has lost its armed support.

[Link: www.google.com...]

re: #74 DaddyG

I can see your mind is in the gutter.

Huh?

re: #76 000G

A coincidence... or... a conspiracy?

...Achmed! They know about the training camps!!

re: #76 000G

They have in their hands a list..

re: #80 MandyManners

Out-come.

I know...I was being an ass...or,I thought you were being punny!
Take your pick!

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Don't know that one, but the Fla church Koran burning has lost its armed support.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Right Wing Extreme announced that it will not be participating in the Burn a Quran day event planned by Dove World Outreach in Gainesville. According to their website, the group’s leadership determined “this event does not glorify GOD in way that leads the lost to Jesus Christ.”

They got that right.

re: #82 MandyManners

Huh?

It is a bad pun that need explaining. Sorry.

re: #84 erraticsphinx

They have in their hands a list..

of known Mohammed-sympathizers? In the highest ranks of the Gubmint?

re: #76 000G

A coincidence... or... a conspiracy?

On a related note: How is the "anti-jihad"-movement under the guide of Geller and Spencer any different from the John Birch Society, only they exchanged "Communist" with "Muslim" and "Communism" with "Islam"?

FWIW, being anti-communism isn't necessarily an idiot's position. Being anti-Islam is.

The presently linked NYP article does not contain the references to the perp shouting Muslim slurs and calling the worshippers terrorists. Weird.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

BBL

re: #89 skullkrusher

FWIW, being anti-communism isn't necessarily an idiot's position. Being anti-Islam is.

The JBS is not anti communist.
They are paranoid anti communist.

re: #85 reloadingisnotahobby

I know...I was being an ass...or,I thought you were being punny!
Take your pick!

Out come, up shot

...any combination of those words could be a juvenile pun. I can barely contain myself.

Lol.
NYPOST.
:D

re: #92 Varek Raith

The JBS is not anti communist.
They are paranoid anti communist.

this is true

re: #81 Decatur Deb

This is good news: potential Muslim suicide bombers vs armed Christian Militia was an absolute formula for disaster. I breathe a slight sigh of relief.

But the irony deficiency here is extreme, especially their quote

“the liberal media is intentionally using stories such as the burning of the Koran to distract, divide, and enrage the public.”

How dare the liberal media condemn someting as healthy and naturally American as book burning?

and from the article:

They further asked their brothers in Christ at Dove World Outreach to not hold the book burning because “it may diminish the work of the Holy Spirit to witness to Muslims.”

Well, nothing like burning Korans to witness the Power of the Holy Spirit to them...our God is stronger than yours!!!

Iron-o-mania.

re: #94 Varek Raith

Lol.
NYPOST.
:D

What's wrong with the NY Post link?

re: #69 DaddyG

This was brilliant. I just said on the last thread that the segment almost made me pee myself. How's that for a coincidence?

She knows! SHE KNOWS!

This is as bad...
Spoke to my son this morning...
His maternal grand parent are ANGRY w/ his mom!
Why? Because she's joined a small Baptist Church in S.C.
that has a black pastor!!
I wish they used the internet...I really do!
Fu&^ers!

The man, identified as Omar Rivera, had allegedly been drinking for five days, a police source said — and when found by worshipers, told them: "My sister’s dead."

It sounds as if he's mentally unhinged and is self-medicating with booze.

If the guy wanted to piss on a rug, he should have gone for Blago's hair piece.

re: #89 skullkrusher

FWIW, being anti-communism isn't necessarily an idiot's position. Being anti-Islam is.

I disagree. You can disagree with or be opposed to Communism, but that does not neccessarily make you an "Anti-communist" (in a similar vein as disagreeing with or being opposed to a certain concept of G'd or religiosity does not have to mean that you ought to be an avowed proselytizer for atheism). "Anti-communism" is a distinct movement and a distinct ideology with a very specific boogeyman image of Communism. It's a bankrupt cold-war ideology, much as Communism itself. It painted "freedom" and "democracy" on its flags as much as Communism itself did in order to wage a dirty war. I thank the Lord it never got more power than it did.

re: #101 Rightwingconspirator

If the guy wanted to piss on a rug, he should have gone for Blago's hair piece.

LOL!

re: #96 ralphieboy

Is the suicide bomb threat gone as well or is that still ongoing?

re: #100 MandyManners

It sounds as if he's mentally unhinged and is self-medicating with booze.

That's what I was thinking. Fox news will still get blamed for it anyway.

OT. My computer's clock is losing time. Should I restart?

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

That's what I was thinking. Fox news will still get blamed for it anyway.

For helping create an atmosphere where people feel justified in desecrating a Mosque?

Yeah, well, they do deserve some blame for that.

re: #102 000G

I disagree. You can disagree with or be opposed to Communism, but that does not neccessarily make you an "Anti-communist" (in a similar vein as disagreeing with or being opposed to a certain concept of G'd or religiosity does not have to mean that you ought to be an avowed proselytizer for atheism). "Anti-communism" is a distinct movement and a distinct ideology with a very specific boogeyman image of Communism. It's a bankrupt cold-war ideology, much as Communism itself. It painted "freedom" and "democracy" on its flags as much as Communism itself did in order to wage a dirty war. I thank the Lord it never got more power than it did.

Once again, a key argument here is that there is a difference between the religion of Islam and the political ideology of Islamism.

For those who see no difference, then every mosque is a potential threat to the USA and every Muslim a potential terrorist.

And there are lots of people who have no idea of what either Islam or Islamism are about and just lump them together. In other words, for those with no brains, it's a no-brainer.

These incidents really have my guts twisted in a knot. I truly despise what the 9/11 terrorists and their ilk have done. Yet my family life nearly parallels the family of my wifes best friend. They are Muslims and we are Latter-day Saints, but beyond the obvious doctrinal differences between these two Abrahamic religions we share so much in terms of values, the way we raise our children, what we do and believe on a day to day basis.

I imagine their children have suffered slings and arrows growing up Muslim in the days since Spetember 11, 2001. But they are good patriotic God fearing (respecting) people. On a personal level this breaks my heart. I was hoping that adults would prevail and we wouldn't go down this path of demonizing billions of good people based on the actions of the most radical few among them.

Here in America at least we can value and treasure each others right to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience. We should be an example to the world of how to respect each other and draw strength from our unity.

You see, the Muslims building the community center are at fault for stirring this up just like the blacks were when they decided they would eat at the same counter as the whites.

They should know better and stop building the project and stirring up emotions.

//

re: #106 MandyManners

OT. My computer's clock is losing time. Should I restart?

Do you have it set to automatically synchronize?

re: #106 MandyManners

OT. My computer's clock is losing time. Should I restart?

...Oh nevermind!
...It wasn't that funny!

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

For helping create an atmosphere where people feel justified in desecrating a Mosque?

Yeah, well, they do deserve some blame for that.

I watch Fox News sometimes but missed that program. When is it on again?

re: #90 Spare O'Lake

The presently linked NYP article does not contain the references to the perp shouting Muslim slurs and calling the worshippers terrorists. Weird.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the wherefore's and the why's of the editing of the article?

re: #102 000G

I disagree. You can disagree with or be opposed to Communism, but that does not neccessarily make you an "Anti-communist" (in a similar vein as disagreeing with or being opposed to a certain concept of G'd or religiosity does not have to mean that you ought to be an avowed proselytizer for atheism). "Anti-communism" is a distinct movement and a distinct ideology with a very specific boogeyman image of Communism. It's a bankrupt cold-war ideology, much as Communism itself. It painted "freedom" and "democracy" on its flags as much as Communism itself did in order to wage a dirty war. I thank the Lord it never got more power than it did.

as I said, being anti-communism doesn't necessarily make you an idiot. You can be an anti-communist idiot, however. You can raise the false specter of Communism as a way to get elected, for example.

re: #111 JasonA

Do you have it set to automatically synchronize?

I have no idea.

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

I watch Fox News sometimes but missed that program. When is it on again?

No, you're right. Fostering paranoia about funding and the intentions of this Imam have done nothing to promote the current atmosphere.

re: #114 Spare O'Lake

Does anyone have any thoughts on the wherefore's and the why's of the editing of the article?

Because The Post just regurgitates shit as it comes in and updates as necessary.

Most of us dislike them for that very good reason.

re: #108 ralphieboy

Once again, a key argument here is that there is a difference between the religion of Islam and the political ideology of Islamism.

For those who see no difference, then every mosque is a potential threat to the USA and every Muslim a potential terrorist.

And there are lots of people who have no idea of what either Islam or Islamism are about and just lump them together. In other words, for those with no brains, it's a no-brainer.

Correct. Quite honestly, though, I think that that is a debate that Islam will largely have to have within itself. As much as it is hypocritical and bigoted of the Right to equate Islamism with Islam, it would not be a convincing position of any non-muslim to point out to the differences between Islamism and Islam because that would require an affirmation of the idea of what "real Islam", as a religion, is about. I don't think you can honestly affirm any such idea without being a muslim, much like I also cannot tell Christians what the essence of their faith is without being a Christian myself. What does help, however, is simply pointing out the many instances where objectively and without a doubt muslims leave peacefully together with non-muslims, without violence, without subversion, without hatred etc.

re: #23 Charles

According to the Poison Dwarf, the Muslim Brotherhood and I are joined at the hip:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

quite a feat, given your reputation in other areas as "virulently anti-Muslim", etc. etc.

//

re: #117 JasonA

No, you're right. Fostering paranoia about funding and the intentions of this Imam have done nothing to promote the current atmosphere.

You're wasting your time. Apparently, unless the guy has an epiphany and admits that "Rush made him do it", there is no connection.

re: #109 DaddyG

It would be nice if a tiny drop of your humanity could enter Geller's veins and wake her to the terrible wrong she is doing.

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Don't know that one, but the Fla church Koran burning has lost its armed support.

[Link:

re: #117 JasonA

No, you're right. Fostering paranoia about funding and the intentions of this Imam have done nothing to promote the current atmosphere.

I've seen the same story covered on all the news stations. Are they all working together to create bigots & violent attackers?

I think everyone needs to calm down!
According to Dr. Oz...
The way to achieve inner peace is to "finish all the things we've started and never finished"!
So,I looked around the house to see what wasn't finished..and
finished a bottle of White Zinfandel,a bottle of Tequilla,the Oreos,
some Dorito Chips and the remander of some old Prozac!
You have no idea how F'ing great I feel!

To avoid soiling the rug, a dog will wait at the door to be let out to pee, yet the anti-Muslim bigot will kick in the door to pee on the rug. Go figure.

re: #121 iossarian

You're wasting your time.

Are you kidding? I live for this!

re: #125 reloadingisnotahobby

That's awesome. I'm quitting this job and going home right now - there are some things I started and have to finish!

re: #115 skullkrusher

as I said, being anti-communism doesn't necessarily make you an idiot. You can be an anti-communist idiot, however. You can raise the false specter of Communism as a way to get elected, for example.

I hold my point: You can reject communism. That's fine. But affirming "Anti-communism" is something else. Do not get hung up on words. You cannot analyze the meaning of "Anti-communism" by just looking at the components of the word. You have to look at the history of its use. Much as "Antisemitism" is not really about being against Semites.

re: #33 Charles

And Spencer says it might have been a "fake hate crime," staged by CAIR.

At the rate we're going, eventually they're going to blame the entire extreme right wing as a vast "lib'rul plant." Everybody at the tea parties and the anti-mosque rallies was really all lib'ruls the whole time.

To which I would say, if us lib'ruls are so damn sneaky, effective, brilliant and highly organized as to pull something like that off, they might as well give up and just let us run the whole country outright. We'd obviously be damn good at it.

re: #127 JasonA

Are you kidding? I live for this!

Thing is, I enjoy it too. But more for the amusement value than anything else.

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

Fox news will still get blamed for it anyway.

Good. Rightly so.

Shit!
Lunch is over!!
Don't break anything while I'm gone!K?

re: #118 JasonA

Because The Post just regurgitates shit as it comes in and updates as necessary.

Most of us dislike them for that very good reason.

Good reason not to use them as a source, I guess...like they were at the top of this thread. If someone wanted to make them look really bad they could use what I have posted, which makes it look like they sanitized the story to make it look like the perp did not make any anti-Muslim outbursts during the incident i.e. a possible whitewash.

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

I've seen the same story covered on all the news stations. Are they all working together to create bigots & violent attackers?

Oy vey. You did see the lengths Fox has gone to to ask "questions" about this project, right? Implying that a sinister Saudi Prince might be funding it? Who, of course, owns a large part of the company? Dude, if you want to defend them be my guest.

re: #132 elbruce

Good. Rightly so.

Oh shit, I just put Fox News on. They are showing instructions on how to attack muslims & mosques!

///

re: #134 Spare O'Lake

Good reason not to use them as a source, I guess...like they were at the top of this thread. If someone wanted to make them look really bad they could use what I have posted, which makes it look like they sanitized the story to make it look like the perp did not make any anti-Muslim outbursts during the incident i.e. a possible whitewash.

Talk to the owner Spare.

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit, I just put Fox News on. They are showing instructions on how to attack muslims & mosques!

///

...and they're buying the BEER!

re: #130 elbruce

At the rate we're going, eventually they're going to blame the entire extreme right wing as a vast "lib'rul plant." Everybody at the tea parties and the anti-mosque rallies was really all lib'ruls the whole time.

To which I would say, if us lib'ruls are so damn sneaky, effective, brilliant and highly organized as to pull something like that off, they might as well give up and just let us run the whole country outright. We'd obviously be damn good at it.

Actually left is right and right is left and west is east since we've all so sneakily infiltrated the other side that no one is left on their original side.

Plus I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together...

//

re: #119 000G

Quite honestly, though, I think that that is a debate that Islam will largely have to have within itself.

In that debate, I'm cheering on the Cordoba Initiative. They're clearly on the right side of it.

re: #119 000G

As much as it is hypocritical and bigoted of the Right to equate Islamism with Islam, it would not be a convincing position of any non-muslim to point out to the differences between Islamism and Islam because that would require an affirmation of the idea of what "real Islam", as a religion, is about. I don't think you can honestly affirm any such idea without being a muslim, much like I also cannot tell Christians what the essence of their faith is without being a Christian myself. What does help, however, is simply pointing out the many instances where objectively and without a doubt muslims leave peacefully together with non-muslims, without violence, without subversion, without hatred etc.

Between "Obama's really a Muslim because they believe..." and everything else, I seem to be hearing from a lot of Christians telling Muslims what those Muslims have to believe. It's even odder when those Christians disagree with that belief, but insist that Muslims have to believe it anyway. This would be like me telling Christians that they have to bomb abortion clinics.

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

I've seen the same story covered on all the news stations. Are they all working together to create bigots & violent attackers?

The media has always been the cloaca maxima of public opinion. Fox News just happens to have the biggest bullshit pipe in the system right now.

re: #135 JasonA

Oy vey. You did see the lengths Fox has gone to to ask "questions" about this project, right? Implying that a sinister Saudi Prince might be funding it? Who, of course, owns a large part of the company? Dude, if you want to defend them be my guest.

I also saw the same story coverage on CNN & CBS. So what. Are they all sekret islamophobes?

re: #119 000G

Correct. Quite honestly, though, I think that that is a debate that Islam will largely have to have within itself. As much as it is hypocritical and bigoted of the Right to equate Islamism with Islam, it would not be a convincing position of any non-muslim to point out to the differences between Islamism and Islam because that would require an affirmation of the idea of what "real Islam", as a religion, is about. I don't think you can honestly affirm any such idea without being a muslim, much like I also cannot tell Christians what the essence of their faith is without being a Christian myself. What does help, however, is simply pointing out the many instances where objectively and without a doubt muslims leave peacefully together with non-muslims, without violence, without subversion, without hatred etc.

There's nothing those bigots like to do better than to preach about what is True Islam, to the point of maintaining that non-violent, non-radical, non-Islamist Muslims are not "true Muslims".

Which is exactly what the radical Imams are preaching.

Which proves that greatly deranged minds think alike.

re: #137 Stanley Sea

Talk to the owner Spare.

Good idea. Self-reported my comment.

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

I also saw the same story coverage on CNN & CBS. So what. Are they all sekret islamophobes?

Did they at least say his name?

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit, I just put Fox News on. They are showing instructions on how to attack muslims & mosques!

///

No, they are working on the why. The how is up to the geniuses who watch Fox.

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit, I just put Fox News on. They are showing instructions on how to attack muslims & mosques!

///

Let me guess, Glenn Beck is peeing on a rug again?

re: #147 elbruce

Let me guess, Glenn Beck is peeing on a rug again?

He's probably saying stuff that he'll condemn someone else for saying a few months down the road.

re: #147 elbruce

Let me guess, Glenn Beck is peeing on a rug again?

Ewww...don't go there dude. That sounds like a nasty video.

re: #147 elbruce

Beck is CRAZY...not STUPID!..welll...
He will denounce both acts vehemently!
Just to keep us off balance!!

re: #140 elbruce

In that debate, I'm cheering on the Cordoba Initiative. They're clearly on the right side of it.

re: #119 000G

Between "Obama's really a Muslim because they believe..." and everything else, I seem to be hearing from a lot of Christians telling Muslims what those Muslims have to believe. It's even odder when those Christians disagree with that belief, but insist that Muslims have to believe it anyway. This would be like me telling Christians that they have to bomb abortion clinics.

What's funny to me, in seeing "Christians" attacking muslims for Islam allegedly being such a monstrous belief systems, they pick out and quote passages from islamic scripture in such a clumsy and foolish way that I can see not much difference to how a disgruntled Al-Qaeda acolyte would behave if he wanted to find justification for acting out the anger he feels over his economic or political resentments in the holy texts of a familiar religion of his.

re: #150 reloadingisnotahobby

Beck is CRAZY...not STUPID!..welll...
He will denounce both acts vehemently!
Just to keep us off balance!!

(As if)

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

I also saw the same story coverage on CNN & CBS. So what. Are they all sekret islamophobes?

"Story coverage" is different from spin. How you mention something has as much to do with whether you mention something. The function of news organizations is to ask questions and then do some research and present the answers to those questions.

When such questions are favorable to the far right, FOX "News" only asks them and then leaves them hanging. The effect on the viewer is to confuse rather than to inform them. Therefore, what they do is the opposite of news.

re: #153 elbruce

"Story coverage" is different from spin. How you mention something has as much to do with whether you mention something. The function of news organizations is to ask questions and then do some research and present the answers to those questions.

When such questions are favorable to the far right, FOX "News" only asks them and then leaves them hanging. The effect on the viewer is to confuse rather than to inform them. Therefore, what they do is the opposite of news.

Deflectors at maximum, Captain!
;)

re: #150 reloadingisnotahobby

Beck is CRAZY...not STUPID!..welll...
He will denounce both acts vehemently!
Just to keep us off balance!!

Yeah, this weekend during his "I have a Scheme" speech. The non-political one with Saint Sarah.

re: #155 Stanley Sea

Yeah, this weekend during his "I have a Scheme" speech. The non-political one with Saint Sarah.

I don't even grok this "non-political" business. If you're talking about the state of the nation, whether you think that's good or bad, and what you think the nation should be like, you're talking politics.

re: #153 elbruce

"Story coverage" is different from spin. How you mention something has as much to do with whether you mention something. The function of news organizations is to ask questions and then do some research and present the answers to those questions.

When such questions are favorable to the far right, FOX "News" only asks them and then leaves them hanging. The effect on the viewer is to confuse rather than to inform them. Therefore, what they do is the opposite of news.

XOF Swen! We confuse and you deride!

/

re: #129 000G

I hold my point: You can reject communism. That's fine. But affirming "Anti-communism" is something else. Do not get hung up on words. You cannot analyze the meaning of "Anti-communism" by just looking at the components of the word. You have to look at the history of its use. Much as "Antisemitism" is not really about being against Semites.

would you prefer "opposed to communism" vs "opposed to Islam"? I think you're the one being hung on words by attributing "anti-communism" a meaning with regards to its history rather than just a concept.
In any case, when I said anti-X I meant "opposed to X" not trying to invoke some connotative meaning.

I believe we are winessing a rapid decline in Americans' ability to think and reason clearly, which must stem from a deline in the quality of basic education.

A religion is more than its Holy Scriptures, it is what its believers make of them in their everyday lives. A religion can be the basis of a political ideology or a political system, but it is not one per se.

re: #158 skullkrusher

would you prefer "opposed to communism" vs "opposed to Islam"? I think you're the one being hung on words by attributing "anti-communism" a meaning with regards to its history rather than just a concept.
In any case, when I said anti-X I meant "opposed to X" not trying to invoke some connotative meaning.

Point taken. We agree to disagree.

re: #159 ralphieboy

I believe we are winessing a rapid decline in Americans' ability to think and reason clearly, which must stem from a deline in the quality of basic education.

A religion is more than its Holy Scriptures, it is what its believers make of them in their everyday lives. A religion can be the basis of a political ideology or a political system, but it is not one per se.

Yes, a religion is nothing without its adherents who live and cultivate the tradition. I think a course on Postmodern Theory of Literature and especially the concept of Intertextuality should be required in Highschool to get an idea of how religions evolve even though the Holy Scriptures are held to be uncreated and eternal, but that probably sounds too leftist and would scare too many religious fundamentalists from the right side of the fence.

re: #159 ralphieboy

I believe we are winessing a rapid decline in Americans' ability to think and reason clearly, which must stem from a deline in the quality of basic education.

I agree with the first part, but think the source has more to do with parents increasingly relying on others (TV, teachers, etc.) to do their parenting for them. It's always going to be the parents who have the greatest influence on their childrens' ability to engage in critical thinking.

re: #25 Ojoe

OK I'll stop.

Don't...your shower of sarc has been golden!

As near as I can now tell, there is no evidence that the perp shouted religious slurs or called the worshippers terrorists. It looks like the NYP broke the story with those allegations; then the networks and other outlets picked up the story; then the NYP edited its story to delete those particular allegations.
So now what I see on the net (and here) are scores of stories which repeat the allegations, which allegations have themselves been deleted from the original NYP source.
I could be wrong, but this stinks.

re: #164 Spare O'Lake

As near as I can now tell, there is no evidence that the perp shouted religious slurs or called the worshippers terrorists. It looks like the NYP broke the story with those allegations; then the networks and other outlets picked up the story; then the NYP edited its story to delete those particular allegations.
So now what I see on the net (and here) are scores of stories which repeat the allegations, which allegations have themselves been deleted from the original NYP source.
I could be wrong, but this stinks.

Starting to see why The Post is a rag?

re: #164 Spare O'Lake

I could be wrong, but this stinks.

As TPM has it:

Late Update: The Washington Post was told by the NYPD that Rivera was so drunk that he didn't even know he was at a mosque, and police say they don't believe the incident was bias-related. The New York Post has since updated its original story -- removing any mention of anti-Muslim slurs. A police source also tells the Post that when found by worshipers, Rivera said "My sister's dead."

Late Late Update: The NYPD now confirms to TPM that the incident is not being investigated as bias-related. The NYPD said members of the mosque stated that Rivera did not make biased comments during the incident.

I'd like to see an actual retraction by the NYP instead of just an edit, but in any case it looks like there's actually nothing there.

re: #166 elbruce

NPR saying about the same thing.

re: #166 elbruce

As TPM has it:

I'd like to see an actual retraction by the NYP instead of just an edit, but in any case it looks like there's actually nothing there.

TPM was on the ball, at least - kudos to them.

On the other hand, as the old blues song goes :

"The harpy shrieks on Friday..."

How long before the mosque opponents turn the stabbed cabbie into some sort of nefarious agent provocateur?

Stay classy Queens.

The Post edited their story to remove mention of “anti-Muslim slurs,” but did not issue a correction.

Shocka.//

re: #166 elbruce
Doesn't matter, because the image is out there.
It's like introducing non-permissible testimony at trial. Even though you know the judge will sustain the other side's objection, the jury's still heard it, and it sticks.

re: #172 tradewind

Doesn't matter, because the image is out there.
It's like introducing non-permissible testimony at trial. Even though you know the judge will sustain the other side's objection, the jury's still heard it, and it sticks.

True. But if somebody mentioned it as an example of anti-muslim crime, I'd have to point out that the story got it wrong. All we can do as intellectually honest people is deal with inaccuracy where we find it. If somebody still believes it because they want to believe it after they've been corrected, then they're a moonbat.

Why would the Post issue a potentially charged article without getting all the facts?

He should have also had a dump.

re: #175 WarBicycle

Excuse me?

All this seeking to lay blame on some media, blogs etc. for some hate crimes.

So here's a serious question. In other hate incidents in which it was not a muslim or muslims who were the victim(s), what media, blogs, etc, were the ones responsible?
For instance, when a muslim man shot his way into a Seattle Synagogue and killed a woman while wounding 5 others who or what was to blame? What media or others inspired that crime?

re: #177 captdiggs

All this seeking to lay blame on some media, blogs etc. for some hate crimes.

So here's a serious question. In other hate incidents in which it was not a muslim or muslims who were the victim(s), what media, blogs, etc, were the ones responsible?
For instance, when a muslim man shot his way into a Seattle Synagogue and killed a woman while wounding 5 others who or what was to blame? What media or others inspired that crime?

OK, since it's a serious question, I'll give a serious answer.

The claim that A implies B in no way requires or suggests the unrelated claim that B implies A. So saying that "right wing hyperbole causes the number of crimes against people of Middle-Eastern appearance" in no way suggests that for every violent crime there must be some other source of hyperbole. Crimes can have many causes.

This is basic logic theory.

re: #178 iossarian

I agree.
There are hate crimes all the time. Fortunately, they are relatively few.
There were hate crimes against muslims before the mosque controversy, as there have been against Jews, Blacks, latinos and others.
There does not necessarily have to a be a link to current news or rhetoric from any particular sector.
However, there seems to be a current need to lay blame on that hyperbole.
And in the case I cited, I could make just as valid an argument that *left wing, anti-Israel* rhetoric contributed to that very real attack.

re: #179 captdiggs

I agree.
There are hate crimes all the time. Fortunately, they are relatively few.
There were hate crimes against muslims before the mosque controversy, as there have been against Jews, Blacks, latinos and others.
There does not necessarily have to a be a link to current news or rhetoric from any particular sector.
However, there seems to be a current need to lay blame on that hyperbole.
And in the case I cited, I could make just as valid an argument that *left wing, anti-Israel* rhetoric contributed to that very real attack.

Well, you could make that claim, but I think it's a stretch to say that "left-wing, anti-Israel" rhetoric is as widespread, vitriolic or mainstream as its right-wing anti-Islam counterpart.

I mean, can you imagine a Democratic candidate saying that a proposed synagogue should be built 9 levels underground so that "us Christians can walk on top of it"? And then still being a credible, electable candidate?

The claim being made, by the way, is not that the right-wing rhetoric is the only cause of such attacks. It's that it is one of several causes.

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I cannot believe this shit;

Campaigners say Ground Zero mosque plans led to taxi murder attempt

Classic "Look what you made me do" rhetortic.

Fuck you Pataki.

Didn't someone just say what a great Governor this guy was?

re: #174 Amory Blaine

Why would the Post issue a potentially charged article without getting all the facts?

You're a funny guy.

re: #180 iossarian

"left-wing, anti-Israel" rhetoric is as widespread, vitriolic or mainstream as its right-wing anti-Islam counterpart.

I think that depends on where you look. Most any day you can read some truly vitriolic hate of both Jews and Israel on Huffington Post along with a goodly dose of arab propaganda.
Most left wing rallies against Bush for years had its share of Israel hate mongers and their signs.
But, it would be a matter of opinion as to how widespread, and hard to quantify in any case.

I don't care what he said, this is gross and disgusting.

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Don't know that one, but the Fla church Koran burning has lost its armed support.

[Link: www.google.com...]

I love the ending to the article--

"Final analysis: A group of armed Christians who like to pretend they are chivalrous medieval knights are providing a moderating voice in the debate over Quran burning."

re: #63 im_gumby_damnit

That rug really tied the room together, dude.

This aggression will not stand, man.

Wow a stunning 0-3 on the Tea party violence meme.

First the stabbing of the Muslim taxi driver appears to be by someone other than the "Tea Party" mold.

Secondly the firebomber of Carnahan’s office turns out to be a Dem operative and a Russ Carnahan staffer.

And now the pathetic backtracking that actually no “anti-Muslim” slurs were shouted while urinating on a carpet. Instead he was just shouting at everyone, which oddly enough makes it OK for everyone.

Tea party violence meme - destroyed

State run media attempts to propagate said meme - destroyed

Prediction - no acceptance of failings, only more slander ahead.

Oh well, they are losing that battle, so I welcome it.

WOW... Must be a crazed conservative because, surely, in the entire history of humanity there has never been an individual that was drunk out of their mind who then walked into a building and publicly urinated while cursing all those nearby. Since everyone knows that enlightened liberals do not perform such hideous acts and, surely, this has never happened before, it must be a political statement and, hence, performed by some deranged conservative. Case closed - please add this to the existing evidence that conservatives are deranged.

Waah! They're persecuting the conservatives again! Waah!