Glenn Beck in January: If the Truth Got Out About MLK, He Wouldn’t Be Celebrated

Wingnuts • Views: 3,258

Today in Washington DC, Glenn Beck wept at least four times during a speech that shamelessly invoked Martin Luther King’s name over and over, with an air of exaggerated reverence and treacly sentimentality.

But earlier this year, on his own website, Beck had no qualms at all about labeling King as a “radical socialist,” and said if the truth got out about Dr. King, “he wouldn’t be as celebrated.”

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281 comments
1 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:47:03am

Fucking doughy two-faced piece of shite you are, Glenn.

2 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:51:53am

Do the people who watch Beck simply lack memories, or is it more cynical than that?

3 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:54:03am

So... Glenn doesn't know the information he gave his throngs of listeners?

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:55:56am

Wait, I thought MLK was claimed as a Republican now. Was he a radical socialist Republican?

5 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:59:03am

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, I thought MLK was claimed as a Republican now. Was he a radical socialist Republican?

He's whatever is the most politically expedient.

Glenn Beck -- political opportunist to the core.

6 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:59:22am

The truth has got out about MLK, but it's not had any impact on his reputation. Same with Gandhi. Same with Jefferson, for that matter. Great men are still mortal and they do have their failings, but this is something just about everyone knows without even having to hear the particulars.

What counts is the content of the best of their character, not the feet of clay stuff. History should record these, but they are not the main story.

7 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:02:55am

re: #6 lostlakehiker

The truth has got out about MLK, but it's not had any impact on his reputation. Same with Gandhi. Same with Jefferson, for that matter. Great men are still mortal and they do have their failings, but this is something just about everyone knows without even having to hear the particulars.

What counts is the content of the best of their character, not the feet of clay stuff. History should record these, but they are not the main story.

Heh. Gives me an idea for the next mega-popular dumbass teevee show: "American Feet of Clay."

8 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:03:08am

Beck: "Tell the truth. America is crying out for the truth"

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:03:42am

re: #6 lostlakehiker

The truth has got out about MLK, but it's not had any impact on his reputation. Same with Gandhi. Same with Jefferson, for that matter. Great men are still mortal and they do have their failings, but this is something just about everyone knows without even having to hear the particulars.

What counts is the content of the best of their character, not the feet of clay stuff. History should record these, but they are not the main story.

"The truth" being that he was a foaming-at-the-mouth socialist?

10 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:07:05am

Beck knows his followers have no memory.

Insert George Santayana quote here.

11 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:07:16am

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

12 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:08:39am

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

SIGN: "The Bold Truth:
M.L.L was pro-Communist!"

Image: 4935465016_04e1bc98a3_o.jpg

13 ihateronpaul  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:09:13am

my head hurts

14 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:09:19am

re: #11 Charles

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

I just looked at that and was thinking the same thing.
You can't make it bigger so there is no way to see details.

15 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:09:51am

re: #12 simoom

Oops, "M.L.L." should read "M.L.K.".

16 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:10:00am

re: #9 SanFranciscoZionist

"The truth" being that he was a foaming-at-the-mouth socialist?

Huh? He wasn't. If that had been the case, he'd never have got anywhere with his central civil-rights work.

Like I said, his faults were no big deal compared to his accomplishments.

17 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:10:37am

re: #11 Charles

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

No EXIF data. Doubt that that was shot recently.

18 countrockulot  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:14:44am

The right wants to distill all that was MLK to simply the words "they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" and use those words as a basis for advocating never doing anything to combat discrimination. The right would rather forget everything else about the man.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:15:07am

re: #16 lostlakehiker

Huh? He wasn't. If that had been the case, he'd never have got anywhere with his central civil-rights work.

Like I said, his faults were no big deal compared to his accomplishments.

I was referring to what Beck says was wrong with him. Beck doesn't seem to care about his personal foibles, he thinks he's a socialist.

20 jaunte  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:15:58am

re: #11 Charles

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

pinkelephantpun is Tabitha Hale, Interactive Media Coordinator for FreedomWorks.

21 Randy W. Weeks  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:18:36am

John Rich (country singer) just tweeted that he was going to be singing to "over 600,000" people. Boy can count better than he sings.

22 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:18:55am

re: #20 jaunte

pinkelephantpun is Tabitha Hale, Interactive Media Coordinator for FreedomWorks.

ahhhhhhh
All of her other pictures will embiggen except that one.
So she obviously did not take it, the quality and colors even look different then her other pictures of the day.....someone from Freedom Works passed it on to her.

23 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:18:59am

re: #20 jaunte

pinkelephantpun is Tabitha Hale, Interactive Media Coordinator for FreedomWorks.

Figures.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:19:14am

re: #21 LoneStarSpur

John Rich (country singer) just tweeted that he was going to be singing to "over 600,000" people. Boy can count better than he sings.

He's probably just taking the organizer's count.

25 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:20:20am

re: #11 Charles

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

It's hard to tell for sure, but based on combining (in my head) some of the ground level crowd images I've browsed through I think that overview may be real:

Image: 4935470422_b42d5aa560_o.jpg
Image: 4935377994_a882152554_b.jpg
Image: 4935399176_740919335f_o.jpg
Image: 4934609405_f639c40e39_o.jpg
Image: 4935275798_77fec672e1_b.jpg
Image: 4935274856_efa3966e8f_b.jpg
Image: 4934779587_41e96eb7b3_b.jpg

26 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:21:18am

re: #11 Charles

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

Totally, Charles. They're lying again.

Two quick proofs:

1. The reflecting pool in that photo shows an overcast sky. Today in DC it was in fact as bright and sunshiny as it gets.

Liars.

2. In the actual Beck rally pictures you can see giant screens showing Beck's fat face to the crowds at intervals along the pool. None are showing here.

Pants-on-fire liars.

27 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:22:25am

re: #25 simoom

Yeah, it could be. I'm just suspicious any time teabaggers post these kinds of photos because they've lied in the past.

28 darthstar  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:22:40am

heh...

When Palin mentioned her former running mate, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Steve Richardson, 72, of Denver shouted, "John who?" Richardson, who attended last year's Tea Party 9-12 rally, said, "I just think McCain was a better airman than a politician because he supports energy trading and is too pro-immigration."

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

29 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:23:13am

re: #25 simoom

It's hard to tell for sure, but based on combining (in my head) some of the ground level crowd images I've browsed through I think that overview may be real:

Yeah, they just photoshopped in some clouds for shits and giggles.

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:24:29am

re: #26 Cato the Elder

Hmm. The clouds do seem wrong. But I can't say for sure that no clouds passed over the rally all morning. It was certainly very sunny when I was watching.

31 nines09  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:25:50am

Wonder if he had visions of Verboten dancing in his head or if it was just dollar signs?

32 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:26:44am

Abe looks pissed.

33 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:27:20am

re: #30 Charles

Hmm. The clouds do seem wrong. But I can't say for sure that no clouds passed over the rally all morning. It was certainly very sunny when I was watching.

Well, unless we're having totally different weather in DC and Baltimore today (a rarity), it was bright and sunny all morning.

That website is pulling a Reuters.

34 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:27:50am

If it is fake, that site's bar will be really funny.

"Stop the Leftist Propaganda Machine."

35 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:28:01am

Just hanging out on the toilets.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

36 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:28:41am

Reuters Pictures 11 minutes ago

This aerial handout image, taken August 28, 2010, shows the crowds gathered around the Reflecting Pool for Glenn Beck's 'Restore America' Rally in Washington. The Lincoln Memorial is at the top of the photo, the National WWII Veterans Memorial at the bottom.

37 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:29:24am

Might be real.
Looks like she took it from the WAPO:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

38 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:29:56am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

The stage setup looks similar. It might be real.

39 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:30:14am

re: #11 Charles

Here we go again with the claims that there were eleventy gazillion people at the Beck rally.

Check out this overhead photo posted at a wingnut blog:

[Link: www.fireandreamitchell.com...]

This looks like a photo of a different rally to me -- the same trick they tried to pull last year.

Can't imagine how she got her hands on an aerial view already. Does she have her own helicopter?

The HuffPo writeup does suggest it was a big turnout:

Beck, pacing back and forth on the marble steps, said he was humbled by the size of the crowd, which stretched along the Washington Mall's long reflecting pool nearly all the way to the Washington Monument.


But it also describes it as "tens of thousands." It also notes that they had a permit for 300,000 max. Apparently the National Park Service doesn't do crowd counts any more, so there'll never be an official number unless the D.C. Fire Department is checking as well.

Look for the wingnut sites to start playing their multiple "x10 estimate" game soon. Within 24 hours, they'll be claiming numbers in the tens of millions.

40 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:33:02am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Reuters Pictures 11 minutes ago

OK, there I can see the giant teevee screens. Maybe the reflecting pool is muddy?

I wonder whether the Parks Department can tell us if the nice clean decent honorable white folks take their trash home with them! Or is fouling a public place one of our lost but restored fweeedoms?

41 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:33:55am

All I can say is that was one of the most crazy pulpit speeches I've ever seen.

It was a crock.

42 Winny Spencer  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:34:32am

What was up with Glenn proclaiming that "the media" had estimated that there were either 300,000 or 500,000 there? Did he simply pull that out of his rear end? The wingnuts are now parroting that claim.

43 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:35:54am

For me personally, I don't think it matters much how many people went. Like all minority groups they're entitled freedom of assembly. They're still misguided and have a rather atavistic vision of America or perhaps even one that never existed save for the imagination of Glenn Beck.

44 avanti  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:35:55am

"One to two million"/

crowd.

45 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:36:26am

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, I thought MLK was claimed as a Republican now. Was he a radical socialist Republican?

Those Eisenhower Republicans had no respect for States' Rights.

46 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:36:46am

Sigh.
Less people=not as many crazies as I thought=good thing.
More people=more crazies than I thought=bad thing.
:/

47 avanti  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:36:54am

re: #44 avanti

Crap, ignore that, old rally, still looking.

48 wee fury  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:37:01am

re: #40 Cato the Elder

OK, there I can see the giant teevee screens. Maybe the reflecting pool is muddy?

I wonder whether the Parks Department can tell us if the nice clean decent honorable white folks take their trash home with them! Or is fouling a public place one of our lost but restored fweeedoms?

I did hear Beck mention in his long rambling speech, that the reflecting pool was dirty.

49 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:37:08am

re: #11 Charles

That's a nice little wingnut website, in any case. They have Barney Frank captioned as the "Banking Queen".

50 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:39:07am

re: #48 wee fury

I did hear Beck mention in his long rambling speech, that the reflecting pool was dirty.

I didn't watch the speech. Waiting for the Jon Stewart redaction.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:39:25am

re: #43 Gus 802

For me personally, I don't think it matters much how many people went. Like all minority groups they're entitled freedom of assembly. They're still misguided and have a rather atavistic vision of America or perhaps even one that never existed save for the imagination of Glenn Beck.

They have an absolute, and unassailable right to have a big come-to-Jesus meeting in DC, and I won't even say that they shouldn't exercise that right.

I do, however, have a lot of cynicism about what is going on here, and concern for what it says about the political situation in the country. And frankly, these folks scare the hell out of me. There's no telling what dumbass thing a lot of self-pitying people hopped up on God and Country will do.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:39:56am

re: #45 sagehen

Those Eisenhower Republicans had no respect for States' Rights.

Neither did the Lincoln Republicans! It seems to be a party trend.

And it used to be a good thing.

53 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:39:58am

Any reliable figures on how many attended the Beck-Palin rally?

54 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:40:04am

re: #42 Winny Spencer

What was up with Glenn proclaiming that "the media" had estimated that there were either 300,000 or 500,000 there? Did he simply pull that out of his rear end? The wingnuts are now parroting that claim.

This is what they did at the tea party march on D.C. they got a fire dept. crowd estimate of 5,000 then someone on stage quoted it as 50,000, someone listening to that tweeted 500,000 and Michelle Malkin posted that as 5,000,000.

I'm going to grant that he got a great turnout. Honestly, it doesn't even need inflating. Even without the usual decimal-point-shifting he should be proud. But it should be possible to come up with an accurate estimate based on the aerial pics alone.

55 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:40:19am

re: #50 Cato the Elder

I didn't watch the speech. Waiting for the Jon Stewart redaction.

Jon is going to be on vacation AGAIN for 10 days.
Bastard.

56 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:40:28am

My Glenn Beck haiku:

Weeping Fox News host
Promoting theocracy
Rubes pony up cash

57 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:40:45am

re: #53 Spare O'Lake

Any reliable figures on how many attended the Beck-Palin rally?

Sawah Pawin was there too?

58 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:41:03am

re: #57 Cato the Elder

Sawah Pawin was there too?

Wes.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:42:25am

re: #53 Spare O'Lake

Any reliable figures on how many attended the Beck-Palin rally?

I'm waiting on the DC cops, bearing in mind that as FBV pointed out, they may inflate for budetary reasons.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:42:57am

re: #57 Cato the Elder

Sawah Pawin was there too?

Yes. As the mother of a combat veteran. Lil' old her!

61 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:43:30am

Beck has a lot of people that love him and take him seriously so the high numbers are probably close. No one should take this as a validation of his ideas. However, it should be taken as an indicator of how well the polished right-wing PR machine is working and give concern that so many people, for whatever reason, are prone to manipulation through confirmation bias.

What bothers me the most is the potential for people like Glenn to use the misinformation effect to impose their own realities into other's memories. True historical records be damned, people are going to remember the last few years as a horrible time and the fault of certain minority groups. The gains made through the civil rights struggle are now in jeopardy.

62 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:43:31am

Glenn Beck speaks.
Then he weeps.
Before he reaps.
Burma Shave

63 jaunte  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:43:34am

re: #50 Cato the Elder

I didn't watch the speech. Waiting for the Jon Stewart redaction.

It was a farrago, wrapped in a slumgullion, shrouded in a word salad.

64 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:43:44am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

They have an absolute, and unassailable right to have a big come-to-Jesus meeting in DC, and I won't even say that they shouldn't exercise that right.

I do, however, have a lot of cynicism about what is going on here, and concern for what it says about the political situation in the country. And frankly, these folks scare the hell out of me. There's no telling what dumbass thing a lot of self-pitying people hopped up on God and Country will do.

As long as they keep worshipping idiots, I think we're pretty safe.

It's when they find their Mussolini that I'll start to worry.

65 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:43:48am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm waiting on the DC cops, bearing in mind that as FBV pointed out, they may inflate for budetary reasons.

>50,000

66 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:45:19am

re: #65 Varek Raith

>50,000

I keep forgetting about not using greater than and less than signs...

More than 50,000
Less than 500,000.
My $0.02

67 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:46:00am

re: #63 jaunte

It was a farrago, wrapped in a slumgullion, shrouded in a word salad.

You give him too much credit.

68 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:46:23am

Right about now a group of Beck sheep are lost somewhere in the DC subway system.

What fear lurks in the hearts of portly Beckians!

69 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:46:59am

So what does "restoring honor" mean specifically? All I'm hearing is a bunch of vague platitudes about feeling good about being American. Which is nice, but I would kind of hope for them to get to the point. What are they advocating that we as a nation do? I mean, beyond feeling good about ourselves.

There seems to have been some mention of completing MLK's "dream?" So they're advocating civil rights and equality? That'd be cool...

Also, I'm curious about this:

Palin told the crowd she wasn't speaking as a politician. "No, something more, something much more. I've been asked to speak as the mother of a soldier and I am proud of that distinction. Say what you want to say about me, but I raised a combat vet and you can't take that away from me." It was a reference to her son, Track, 20, who served a yearlong deployment in Iraq.


Congrats to Sarah, and thanks from me to Track for his service. Just... how does somebody get a 1-year deployment, with no stop-loss recalls?

70 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:47:00am

re: #65 Varek Raith

I say 75,000-100,000. That to be seems a reasonable estimate.

71 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:47:01am

re: #68 Gus 802

Right about now a group of Beck sheep are lost somewhere in the DC subway system.

What fear lurks in the hearts of portly Beckians!

Bwack pweple!

72 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:47:02am

NWO signs left on a number of National Mall benches :P:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Image: 4934949791_d9e2b0408b_b.jpg
73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:47:08am

re: #65 Varek Raith

>50,000

That's a good turn-out.

74 Varek Raith  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:47:32am

re: #70 ProLifeLiberal

I say 75,000-100,000. That to be seems a reasonable estimate.

I tend towards overkill.
Just to be safe.
;)

75 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:48:13am

re: #68 Gus 802

Right about now a group of Beck sheep are lost somewhere in the DC subway system.

What fear lurks in the hearts of portly Beckians!

I hope they didn't take the green or yellow lines. They might have to interact with black people!

76 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:48:52am

re: #69 elbruce

Congrats to Sarah, and thanks from me to Track for his service. Just... how does somebody get a 1-year deployment, with no stop-loss recalls?

By being President Palin's son and joining to avoid time in prison.

77 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:48:56am

re: #43 Gus 802

For me personally, I don't think it matters much how many people went. Like all minority groups they're entitled freedom of assembly. They're still misguided and have a rather atavistic vision of America or perhaps even one that never existed save for the imagination of Glenn Beck.

I don't understand how folks can honestly say that it doesn't matter how disappointingly teensy weensy teeny tiny the turnout might hopefully hahahaburnonbeck have been.

78 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:49:16am

Ooh, the wingnuts are tweeting such mean things about me. My widdle feewings are hurt.

Tweetdeck's Global Filter feature is great when they start acting up. I just make their tweets disappear. Poof.

79 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:50:00am

re: #61 b_sharp

Beck has a lot of people that love him and take him seriously so the high numbers are probably close. No one should take this as a validation of his ideas.

The wingnuts really enjoy engaging in argumentum ad populum fallacies. In fact, their whole "marketplace of ideas" concept is based on setting that up.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:50:15am

re: #77 Spare O'Lake

I don't understand how folks can honestly say that it doesn't matter how disappointingly teensy weensy teeny tiny the turnout might hopefully hahahaburnonbeck have been.

I'd love to see Glenn Beck standing all by his lonesome on the Mall, but that wasn't going to happen. He got a good crowd.

81 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:50:21am

Beck Rally street preacher:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Image: 4935562306_034b7d0cd2_b.jpg
82 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:52:00am

re: #79 elbruce

The wingnuts really enjoy engaging in argumentum ad populum fallacies. In fact, their whole "marketplace of ideas" concept is based on setting that up.

Yes of course. LOL.

That's why the Chinese are right about everything.

83 webevintage  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:52:53am

There was no way Beck was going to have a small crowd.
Freedom Works and the Koch brothers made sure of that.

84 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:53:58am

re: #78 Charles

Ooh, the wingnuts are tweeting such mean things about me. My widdle feewings are hurt.

Tweetdeck's Global Filter feature is great when they start acting up. I just make their tweets disappear. Poof.

Beckapalooza! Brought to you by, Manzere™

/

85 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:54:11am

re: #83 webevintage

There was no way Beck was going to have a small crowd.
Freedom Works and the Koch brothers made sure of that.

They did a lot better that I thought they'd do. The rally against the passing of healthcare reform was heavily promoted too and they only got a few thousand for that one.

86 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:54:27am

re: #25 simoom

It's hard to tell for sure, but based on combining (in my head) some of the ground level crowd images I've browsed through I think that overview may be real:

Image: 4935470422_b42d5aa560_o.jpg
Image: 4935377994_a882152554_b.jpg
Image: 4935399176_740919335f_o.jpg
Image: 4934609405_f639c40e39_o.jpg
Image: 4935275798_77fec672e1_b.jpg
Image: 4935274856_efa3966e8f_b.jpg
Image: 4934779587_41e96eb7b3_b.jpg

I think so, too. But really, that's not a massive crowd. Someone estimated 60.000 on the previous thread. I think that's in the ballpark. You could fit that bunch into the Longhorn's stadium with *plenty* of room to spare.

87 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:55:44am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd love to see Glenn Beck standing all by his lonesome on the Mall, but that wasn't going to happen. He got a good crowd.

His longstanding popularity and tremendous TV and Radio ratings have always been a puzzle to me. I used to think it was mostly the crying and his other snake-oil-peddling theatrics, but lately I've started wondering if maybe a good slice of America has gone off the deep end.

88 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:55:46am

Lots of people were there, listening to the most insane preacher since....? history buffs?

89 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:56:14am

re: #84 Gus 802

Beckapalooza! Brought to you by, Manzere™

/

Eww.

90 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:56:32am

re: #89 b_sharp

Eww.

Serenity now!

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:57:03am

re: #87 Spare O'Lake

His longstanding popularity and tremendous TV and Radio ratings have always been a puzzle to me. I used to think it was mostly the crying and his other snake-oil-peddling theatrics, but lately I've started wondering if maybe a good slice of America has gone off the deep end.

I don't get him, any more than I get the whole Tea Party business, but it strikes a chord.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:57:33am

re: #88 Stanley Sea

Lots of people were there, listening to the most insane preacher since...? history buffs?

All I can say is that "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" had better imagery and more consistent theology.

93 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:57:40am

re: #69 elbruce

So what does "restoring honor" mean specifically? All I'm hearing is a bunch of vague platitudes about feeling good about being American. Which is nice, but I would kind of hope for them to get to the point. What are they advocating that we as a nation do? I mean, beyond feeling good about ourselves.

There seems to have been some mention of completing MLK's "dream?" So they're advocating civil rights and equality? That'd be cool...

Also, I'm curious about this:


Congrats to Sarah, and thanks from me to Track for his service. Just... how does somebody get a 1-year deployment, with no stop-loss recalls?

Tomorrow's headline: "Rioting Glenn Beck Supporters Disappointed to Find Majority of DC Still Black."

Honor!

As for "Track" - sorry. I can't get past laughing at his name long enough to comment.

94 countrockulot  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:58:03am

re: #88 Stanley Sea

Lots of people were there, listening to the most insane preacher since...? history buffs?

Father Coughlin.

96 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:58:49am

A couple more rally t-shirts:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Image: 4935476924_ee68a2fda5_b.jpg
Image: 4934884329_2c05c3466b_b.jpg

Some guy trolling the crowd with a microphone and a life-size cardboard cutout of Obama?

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Image: 4935476566_6264d6d4d3_b.jpg
97 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:58:57am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get him, any more than I get the whole Tea Party business, but it strikes a chord.

F SUS?

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:59:18am

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Tomorrow's headline: "Rioting Glenn Beck Supporters Disappointed to Find Majority of DC Still Black."

Honor!

As for "Track" - sorry. I can't get past laughing at his name long enough to comment.

Really, out of all the kids', that name strikes me as being unfortunate. The girls are fine, and "Trig" is going to get teased about math, but it's a nice old Scandinavian name.

But 'Track' does strike me as an unusual thing to name your child. Not really my business, though. If he chooses, I guess he can change it to Henry.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 11:59:48am

re: #94 countrockulot

Father Coughlin.

Hey, everyone see the Father Coughlin defender that was here the other day? I was ASTOUNDED.

100 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:00:03pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get him, any more than I get the whole Tea Party business, but it strikes a chord.

Hopefully the major chord will soon be diminished to a minor 7th of the present score.

101 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:00:25pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, everyone see the Father Coughlin defender that was here the other day? I was ASTOUNDED.

NO! I missed that one. ooh boy.

102 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:00:54pm

re: #88 Stanley Sea

Lots of people were there, listening to the most insane preacher since...? history buffs?

Reverend Ike.

103 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:01:00pm

re: #94 countrockulot

Dang it, you beat me to it. That is so true.

104 jaunte  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:02:41pm

David Barton is on Glenn Beck now, educating the young people.

105 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:02:48pm

Satan wants a sandwich?:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Image: 4935610708_d113ee3718_b.jpg
106 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:02:57pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, out of all the kids', that name strikes me as being unfortunate. The girls are fine, and "Trig" is going to get teased about math, but it's a nice old Scandinavian name.

But 'Track' does strike me as an unusual thing to name your child. Not really my business, though. If he chooses, I guess he can change it to Henry.

As long as they don't name the next one 'Scat'.

107 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:03:35pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, out of all the kids', that name strikes me as being unfortunate. The girls are fine, and "Trig" is going to get teased about math, but it's a nice old Scandinavian name.

But 'Track' does strike me as an unusual thing to name your child. Not really my business, though. If he chooses, I guess he can change it to Henry.

Names she hasn't used yet: Trump, Trick, Tripe, Stomp, Whomp and Wump. Or Wumpus, if she wants to get all classical and shit.

108 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:03:46pm

re: #96 simoom

Some guy trolling the crowd with a microphone and a life-size cardboard cutout of Obama?

[Link: [Link: www.flickr.com...]...]

Image: 4935476566_6264d6d4d3_b.jpg

I recognize him. I think that's Mike Stark.

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:05:50pm

re: #106 b_sharp

As long as they don't name the next one 'Scat'.

Zamboni. She says they're considering 'Zamboni'.

110 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:06:42pm

re: #79 elbruce

The wingnuts really enjoy engaging in argumentum ad populum fallacies. In fact, their whole "marketplace of ideas" concept is based on setting that up.

Funny how little that mattered when millions of Americans (tens of millions of people worldwide) took to the streets to say "please don't invade Iraq"

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:06:57pm

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Names she hasn't used yet: Trump, Trick, Tripe, Stomp, Whomp and Wump. Or Wumpus, if she wants to get all classical and shit.

Tripe won't work. Bristol's little boy is Tripp.

I already think that's too close to Trig, given that they're no more than eighteen months apart, and will probably be raised in close proximity. But what the hey.

112 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:07:46pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

They did a lot better that I thought they'd do. The rally against the passing of healthcare reform was heavily promoted too and they only got a few thousand for that one.

It's an election year, and they think they've got the wind at their backs.

Fair-weather activists, they are.

113 jaunte  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:08:01pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Based on Beck's speech today, maybe it should be Stick.

114 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:08:08pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Tripe won't work. Bristol's little boy is Tripp.

I already think that's too close to Trig, given that they're no more than eighteen months apart, and will probably be raised in close proximity. But what the hey.

It's gotta be weird to call someone just a year and a half older than you "uncle."

115 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:08:20pm

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Names she hasn't used yet: Trump, Trick, Tripe, Stomp, Whomp and Wump. Or Wumpus, if she wants to get all classical and shit.

You mean like this?

116 simoom  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:08:49pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I recognize him. I think that's Mike Stark.

Looks like you're right:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I guess he really must have been trolling them then and recording some sort of video :p.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:09:30pm

re: #114 JasonA

It's gotta be weird to call someone just a year and a half older than you "uncle."

I have an aunt who is three years younger than I am.

Grandfather's second family. I only met her a few times.

I think they'll basically be raised like cousins, though.

118 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:09:51pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, out of all the kids', that name strikes me as being unfortunate. The girls are fine, and "Trig" is going to get teased about math, but it's a nice old Scandinavian name.

But 'Track' does strike me as an unusual thing to name your child. Not really my business, though. If he chooses, I guess he can change it to Henry.

What Trig's going to be teased about is that Tri-G is the medical abbreviation for his condition.

119 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:10:43pm

re: #113 jaunte

Based on Beck's speech today, maybe it should be Stick.

howl!!

120 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:10:49pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Zamboni. She says they're considering 'Zamboni'.

Name him/her after a machine that scraps a thin layer of ice off of and then wets an ice surface.

OK.

121 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:11:28pm

re: #115 PT Barnum

You mean like this?

Huh?

I looked at that - funny! - and closed the tab, but the music is still playing on my computer.

What have you done to my machine, and how do I make it stop?

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:11:52pm

re: #118 sagehen

What Trig's going to be teased about is that Tri-G is the medical abbreviation for his condition.

Oh, is that what it...some guy was on here, ages ago, babbling about something like that, but I couldn't get him to clarify, and it's hard to Google.

Will most people know that, though?

123 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:12:02pm

re: #121 Cato the Elder

Huh?

I looked at that - funny! - and closed the tab, but the music is still playing on my computer.

What have you done to my machine, and how do I make it stop?

I have no idea....
I didn't have that problem.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:12:05pm

re: #120 b_sharp

Name him/her after a machine that scraps a thin layer of ice off of and then wets an ice surface.

OK.

I think she was kidding. Mostly.

125 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:12:30pm

Typical of people like Beck. Claim Beck as one of your own when more are watching but to your fans you call him a radical socialist.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:14:40pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Typical of people like Beck. Claim Beck as one of your own when more are watching but to your fans you call him a radical socialist.

I think you mean MLK? No one has, AFAIK, claimed Beck as a radical socialist.

127 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:14:53pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Typical of people like Beck. Claim Beck as one of your own when more are watching but to your fans you call him a radical socialist.

Err I meant King. Sorry folks, tired from a long day of moving in to my apartment on campus and covering a volleyball game this afternoon.

128 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:15:27pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you mean MLK? No one has, AFAIK, claimed Beck as a radical socialist.

Yep, even though I suppose I could if I had a chalkboard laying around but alas I do not.

129 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:16:01pm

re: #118 sagehen

What Trig's going to be teased about is that Tri-G is the medical abbreviation for his condition.

Holy crap, I did not know that. There's no way that was coincidence.

130 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:16:31pm

Where MLK fits into Beck's blackboard


Image: mlk-chart-sm-1.jpg

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

131 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:16:59pm

Logically if you name a kid Trig, you have to name another Algebra, and the last one has to be Calculus Entropy.

132 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:19:19pm

Off to spend the afternoon with Mrs Barnum. Today is the 11th anniversary of the day she allowed me to quit grovelling at her feet and married me.

She's getting me a Kindle, I'm getting her whatever she wants.

133 3eff Jeff  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:19:51pm

re: #115 PT Barnum

The original command line version of that game is part of the default install on my computer. /Linux Nerd.

134 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:19:52pm

Regarding Rev. Jeremiah Wright:

Wright holds a Doctor of Ministry degree (1990) from the United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, where he studied under Samuel DeWitt Proctor, a mentor to Martin Luther King, Jr.


Connect the dots!!!1!

135 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:20:43pm

re: #132 PT Barnum

Off to spend the afternoon with Mrs Barnum. Today is the 11th anniversary of the day she allowed me to quit grovelling at her feet and married me.

She's getting me a Kindle, I'm getting her whatever she wants.

You will love the Kindle, and she obviously loves you.

Happy day!

136 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:21:36pm

One thing I'd ask of people like Beck who are using this day to claim MLK as their own simply because he was a registered Republican is what do they make out of the fact that MLK talked a lot about social justice as well. It's silly to claim MLK as a republican/conservative just because he supported that party at one time. I've seen the same done to Jackie Robinson. Nevermind the fact that Jackie supported Humphrey over Nixon in '68 and was disgusted at the GOP's right ward turn on civil rights issues starting in '64. He supported Nixon over Kennedy because Nixon had to his credit a solid record on civil rights before he started cowering to racism.

137 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:22:26pm

re: #134 elbruce

Regarding Rev. Jeremiah Wright:

Connect the dots!!!1!

Al-Waleed ---> News Corporation ---> Fox News ---> Glenn Beck ---> Restoring Honor

Restoring Honor was financed by Islamic extremists!!11ty

138 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:23:13pm

re: #132 PT Barnum

Off to spend the afternoon with Mrs Barnum. Today is the 11th anniversary of the day she allowed me to quit grovelling at her feet and married me.

She's getting me a Kindle, I'm getting her whatever she wants.

I be Geometry Fletch.

139 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:24:01pm

re: #138 tnguitarist

I be Geometry Fletch.

Oops, don't know how that happened. Should have been..
re: #131 b_sharp

Logically if you name a kid Trig, you have to name another Algebra, and the last one has to be Calculus Entropy.

140 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:24:30pm

re: #134 elbruce

re: #137 Gus 802

We're all related under the skin.

141 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:24:53pm

re: #137 Gus 802

Al-Waleed ---> News Corporation ---> Fox News ---> Glenn Beck ---> Restoring Honor

Restoring Honor was financed by Islamic extremists!!11ty

Let us pray we see no honor killings as a result.

142 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:25:07pm

The man behind Glenn Beck's riches!!11ty

143 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:25:11pm

re: #135 Cato the Elder

You will love the Kindle, and she obviously loves you.

Happy day!

We're going to go see if Target has the non-3G version, otherwise will wait till I pay off the money I just blew on upgrading my PC.

144 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:29:13pm

re: #143 PT Barnum

We're going to go see if Target has the non-3G version, otherwise will wait till I pay off the money I just blew on upgrading my PC.

I just purchased the 3G Kindle from Amazon, but I have to wait until they get them in this September.

So I'm forced, forced, I tell you, to read real books until then.

(As an IT kinda' guy, some of those books weigh a tonne)

145 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:29:31pm

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

146 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:29:45pm

I think I'm going to change my last name to Palin, and my first to Stomp.

"Stomp Palin 2012!"

147 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:30:23pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Heh.

148 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:30:47pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

"Tell America the truth!"

149 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:30:49pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Heh.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

150 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:30:50pm

re: #144 b_sharp

I just purchased the 3G Kindle from Amazon, but I have to wait until they get them in this September.

So I'm forced, forced, I tell you, to read real books until then.

(As an IT kinda' guy, some of those books weigh a tonne)

Me too..one of the reasons I wanted one. Also easier to leave open to read if you're trying to try out new code too. I think all technical books should be published so they'll lay flat when opened.

151 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:30:55pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, is that what it...some guy was on here, ages ago, babbling about something like that, but I couldn't get him to clarify, and it's hard to Google.

Will most people know that, though?

Sure, why not? All it takes is one person at his school to have a cousin who mentions it over Thanksgiving dinner, suddenly the whole town knows.

152 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:31:09pm

Michael Goldfarb of the Weekly Standard just tweeted that the crowd was huge and he didn't see a single nasty sign.

That's because signs were banned. Does he not know this, or is he trying to mislead people?

153 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:31:46pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Iman Obama? What, Obama's David Bowie's wife now?

154 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:31:57pm

re: #152 Charles

Michael Goldfarb of the Weekly Standard just tweeted that the crowd was huge and he didn't see a single nasty sign.

That's because signs were banned. Does he not know this, or he just trying to mislead people?

The question is why people had to be asked.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:32:48pm

re: #151 sagehen

Sure, why not? All it takes is one person at his school to have a cousin who mentions it over Thanksgiving dinner, suddenly the whole town knows.

Pity.

156 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:33:27pm

re: #152 Charles

Michael Goldfarb of the Weekly Standard just tweeted that the crowd was huge and he didn't see a single nasty sign.

That's because signs were banned. Does he not know this, or he just trying to mislead people?

The signs were there in spirit.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

157 Winny Spencer  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:33:34pm

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:34:16pm

re: #153 HappyWarrior

Iman Obama? What, Obama's David Bowie's wife now?

Anyone else notice that Karl Marx looks a lot like Frederick Douglass? I did a double-take, trying to work that out, then realized who it was.

159 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:34:51pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Pammy's peaceful pals.

160 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:35:04pm

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

Anyone else notice that Karl Marx looks a lot like Frederick Douglass? I did a double-take, trying to work that out, then realized who it was.

Yes! But I also have been on record as saying that the shovel guy from Home Alone is the twin brother of Rutherford B. Hayes.

161 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:35:22pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

HUh, I thought their march was canceled.

162 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:36:24pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I have so many questions about that sign... "What's an 'Iman?'" Isn't that guy in the lower left the dude who owns 7% of NewsCorp? What's going on in the upper right? And what does Marx have to do with any of it?

163 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:36:46pm

re: #154 PT Barnum

The question is why people had to be asked.

Because of their atrocious spelling, I bet.

164 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:36:54pm

re: #162 elbruce

I have so many questions about that sign... "What's an 'Iman?'" Isn't that guy in the lower left the dude who owns 7% of NewsCorp? What's going on in the upper right? And what does Marx have to do with any of it?

It's all in the hat. His hat that is.

165 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:36:56pm

re: #150 PT Barnum

Me too..one of the reasons I wanted one. Also easier to leave open to read if you're trying to try out new code too. I think all technical books should be published so they'll lay flat when opened.

I tend to read in bed as a way of winding down for the day. Lately I've been reading 'Mastering Windows Server 2003'. If you're familiar with the book you know how big and heavy the damn thing is. I'm sure I would be able to get through it more quickly if I didn't have to rest my arms every few minutes.

166 jaunte  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:37:22pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

They had to change the march to a 'static demonstration.'

167 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:37:53pm

re: #152 Charles

Michael Goldfarb of the Weekly Standard just tweeted that the crowd was huge and he didn't see a single nasty sign.

That's because signs were banned. Does he not know this, or is he trying to mislead people?

We've seen many pics of signs in this thread so far. They can't have it both ways, in purely practical terms. Either you have a small crowd where you can control the points of entry, or you have a large crowd where you can't stop them from bringing signs.

168 allegro  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:06pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, is that what it...some guy was on here, ages ago, babbling about something like that, but I couldn't get him to clarify, and it's hard to Google.

Will most people know that, though?

I have a friend who is a pediatric nurse who says that they internally refer to such children as "trig babies" so yeah, a lot of people know that.

169 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:22pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

LOL.

One of the coach [bus] drivers said: "I didn't expect a job like this when I came to work this morning. We're a five-star firm. We don't usually take scumbags like these."

170 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:35pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

Let us pray we see no honor killings as a result.

"Let us pray",
Is so passé,
For those who kill their spouses.

Instead try this:
"Up a rope piss,
And go sit on some mouses".

171 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:38pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

One of the coach drivers said: "I didn't expect a job like this when I came to work this morning. We're a five-star firm. We don't usually take scumbags like these."

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:48pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

One of the coach drivers said: "I didn't expect a job like this when I came to work this morning. We're a five-star firm. We don't usually take scumbags like these."

The working man of England has spoken. Just like he spoke when he marched against Oswald Mosley's brownshirts in Whitechapel shouting "Leave our Jews alone."

173 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:38:51pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

LOL.

What kind of scumbags do they take?

174 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:39:56pm

re: #171 Stanley Sea

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #169 Cato the Elder

LOL, that quote certainly stood out.

175 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:41:22pm

Nativism is a really dangerous political philosophy. It's always the same argument. From Irish and German Catholics who wanted the Vatican to rule over us to the present day Muslim who wants to implement Sharia on this country. You'd think that by this time people would start to see through that bullshit but they never do.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:41:28pm

re: #162 elbruce

I have so many questions about that sign... "What's an 'Iman?'" Isn't that guy in the lower left the dude who owns 7% of NewsCorp? What's going on in the upper right? And what does Marx have to do with any of it?

An Iman is a religious leader of the Muslin community. Get with it, dude.

177 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:41:41pm

re: #168 allegro

I have a friend who is a pediatric nurse who says that they internally refer to such children as "trig babies" so yeah, a lot of people know that.

They named their kid/grandkid after his condition? A bit cruel isn't it?

178 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:42:08pm

Beck says "you are going to see the spirit of God unleashed" at 8-28

I missed this part! I bet it was better than the opening of the Beijing Olympics.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:42:18pm

re: #168 allegro

I have a friend who is a pediatric nurse who says that they internally refer to such children as "trig babies" so yeah, a lot of people know that.

Oh. That's really damn unfortunate.

In other news, I've been told that in hospital slang, the head of pediatrics is called "Captain Kangaroo".

180 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:42:24pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the coach drivers said: "I didn't expect a job like this when I came to work this morning. We're a five-star firm. We don't usually take scumbags like these."

The working man of England has spoken. Just like he spoke when he marched against Oswald Mosley's brownshirts in Whitechapel shouting "Leave our Jews alone."

Huh. I hadn't heard that tidbit before.

Speaking of Jews, I wonder if there were many, or any, at Glenn Beck's "white people's march on Washington".

181 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:42:33pm

re: #18 countrockulot

The right wants to distill all that was MLK to simply the words "they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" and use those words as a basis for advocating never doing anything to combat discrimination. The right would rather forget everything else about the man.

The words of that MLK quote are good and true. But some on the left call it `combating discrimination' when they throw out test results because they don't like the results, and when they set the bar at different heights for different races when it comes to law school admission, medical school admissions, and the like. Some on the right use this injustice as an excuse to attack all affirmative action law, in the hopes of going back to Jim Crow.

Discrimination of any sort is an injustice, and two wrongs do not make right. Everyone should be treated as they would be if their skin color, ancestry, and religion were unknown and unguessable, and the only information available concerned their character, energy, preparation and ability.

Because these qualities are not all equally distributed in every group, some people go by group membership and assume the worst, or the best, of every member of the group with this or that batting average at this or that task. This may be halfway practical sometimes, if one is not inclined to dig a bit and get at some actual personal information that can allow for an informed individual decision. Good affirmative action law forces those making hiring/renting/selling decisions to abstain from this unfair and disgraceful crutch and make a decision on the candidate's actual merits.

The Irish sergeant in "Gettysburg" had it right.

182 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:43:27pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

An Iman is a religious leader of the Muslin community. Get with it, dude.

That explanation sounds completely fabricated.

183 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:43:51pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

Nativism is a really dangerous political philosophy. It's always the same argument. From Irish and German Catholics who wanted the Vatican to rule over us to the present day Muslim who wants to implement Sharia on this country. You'd think that by this time people would start to see through that bullshit but they never do.

I don't think there was ever much danger of that highlighted bit coming to pass.

But a redneck WASP theocracy? That could happen.

184 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:44:15pm

re: #180 Cato the Elder

Huh. I hadn't heard that tidbit before.

Speaking of Jews, I wonder if there were many, or any, at Glenn Beck's "white people's march on Washington".

Yes, that would be interesting to know, along with how many Catholics and how many Muslims.

185 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:44:15pm

re: #166 jaunte

They had to change the march to a 'static demonstration.'

ah.

186 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:45:50pm

re: #183 Cato the Elder

I don't think there was ever much danger of that highlighted bit coming to pass.

But a redneck WASP theocracy? That could happen.

Oh of course not. I'm merely pointing out that the worries generations ago about Catholics having the Vatican rule over us and Muslims now implementing Sharia are absurd. Last bit seems a bit more likely since those people have a ton of political allies.

187 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:46:20pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

ah.

Am I the only one who finds the idea of a static demonstration shocking?

188 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:52:02pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

"Patriots" in England also took to the streets today.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

And here's the money quote, with context:

Earlier in the afternoon coachloads of EDL activists had chanted "Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah?" and "Muslim bombers off our streets".

The EDL claims to be a peaceful, non-racist organisation opposed only to "militant Islam".

One of the coach drivers said: "I didn't expect a job like this when I came to work this morning. We're a five-star firm. We don't usually take scumbags like these."

189 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:53:34pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

Oh of course not. I'm merely pointing out that the worries generations ago about Catholics having the Vatican rule over us and Muslims now implementing Sharia are absurd. Last bit seems a bit more likely since those people have a ton of political allies.

Sorry, I misread you.

Of course it's all the same old shite. A country with a Muslim population of less than one percent is in imminent danger of an Islamic takeover and the imposition of Sharia law. So saith Pat Robertson, the devil's own Christian.

190 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:54:51pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Sorry, I misread you.

Of course it's all the same old shite. A country with a Muslim population of less than one percent is in imminent danger of an Islamic takeover and the imposition of Sharia law. So saith Pat Robertson, the devil's own Christian.

But what about their terror-babies? Or is that just an American thing?

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:55:34pm

re: #187 Spare O'Lake

Am I the only one who finds the idea of a static demonstration shocking?

Static?

192 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:57:31pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Static?

static (electricity) -> shocking
joke
*sigh*

193 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:58:25pm

re: #181 lostlakehiker

The words of that MLK quote are good and true. But some on the left call it `combating discrimination' when they throw out test results because they don't like the results, and when they set the bar at different heights for different races when it comes to law school admission, medical school admissions, and the like.

Discrimination can be done subtly enough that the only way to detect it is through a statistical comparison of the outcome. If you administer a test and 90% of white people pass it and only 10% of black people do, then given a large enough sample size one can quite confidently say that there's something wrong with the test. As for admissions, the bar isn't actually set differently; race only counts between people equally qualified. The expected outcome can be determined taking into account how many qualified members of the minority race are in the applicant pool. If the actual admissions vary widely from that, then some other factor is at work, which is to say that someone involved in the admission process would have to be engaging in racism.

The central tactic of wingnuts regarding race issues is that opposing racism requires engaging in racism. They're lying.

194 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:58:53pm

How can a man who thinks "social justice" = communism actually stand up and claim the mantle of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Cognitive dissidence?

195 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:59:05pm

Crazy Pamela is already trying to blame the violent EDL demonstration on Muslims.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:00:00pm

re: #195 Charles

Crazy Pamela is already trying to blame the violent EDL demonstration on Muslims.

These guys are full-bore Nazis. How can you NOT NOTICE?

197 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:00:37pm

re: #178 JasonA

Beck says "you are going to see the spirit of God unleashed" at 8-28

I missed this part! I bet it was better than the opening of the Beijing Olympics.

So according to Beck the "spirit of God" amounts to mouthing a bunch of feel-good platitudes?

198 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:00:47pm

re: #195 Charles

Crazy Pamela is already trying to blame the violent EDL demonstration on Muslims.

Yeah, because football hooligans and permanently drunken troglodytes never start a fight on their own.

199 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:00:53pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

These guys are full-bore Nazis. How can you NOT NOTICE?

If you're also a full-bore Nazi.

200 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:02:07pm

re: #197 elbruce

So according to Beck the "spirit of God" amounts to mouthing a bunch of feel-good platitudes?

He's been desperate for gigs lately.

201 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:02:43pm

re: #192 Spare O'Lake

static (electricity) -> shocking
joke
*sigh*

I think they need to amp it up a bit.

202 Cato the Elder  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:03:06pm

Nazis, in groups of two or three, are fully boring.

Full-bore Nazis in herds of 700+ are scary.

Can't we offer the Brits some of our underused FEMA camps to house these people?

203 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #200 JasonA

He's been desperate for gigs lately.

Too bad it was the Spirit of Dog instead of the Spirit of God. Might explain all the people there who were dyslexic and barking mad.

204 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:04:46pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

These guys are full-bore Nazis. How can you NOT NOTICE?

In re: to the Pammygeller?

A) The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

B) Willful blindness.

C) She agrees with them.

D) She's an idiot.

This is multiple choice. Choose *all* that apply.

205 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:05:20pm

Mental health break.

206 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:05:22pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Static?

It was a joke.

207 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:05:28pm

re: #201 PT Barnum

I think they need to amp it up a bit.

Ohm not going to get into a pun thread.

208 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:06:15pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Ohm not going to get into a pun thread.

Watt did you say?

209 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:06:19pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Ohm not going to get into a pun thread.

Then how do you expect to stay current?

210 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:06:41pm

re: #205 MandyManners
Thank you. That is a sweet picture.

211 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:07:11pm

re: #173 JasonA

What kind of scumbags do they take?

Football fans.

/

212 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:07:20pm

re: #209 JasonA

Then how do you expect to stay current?

Resistance is futile..

213 swamprat  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:07:34pm

1. If the puppet Mortimer Snerd spoke for three friggin hours every day to a national audience, I am sure he could fill a stadium.
2. Martin Luther King disliked Democrats because of the racism they protected and nurtured. The fact that he was a Republican does not mean he harbored any illusions about Republicans; it means that he felt that they were slightly less likely to try to ham-string him.
3. Martin Luther Kings' association with Communism is often referenced, but seldom sourced. It is not unreasonable to think, that a man out to change the status of a down-trodden people, a man attempting to free a complete subset of the American population,...it is not unreasonable to assume that such a man would use every tool at his disposal. And it is my belief that if Dr. King did this, the communists (as well as their tactics and training) were used by him. I very much doubt that HE was being used by them; THEY were being used by HIM.

Excellent tactician.

214 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:07:40pm

re: #209 JasonA

Then how do you expect to stay current?

I'll use ability for resistance.

215 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:08:02pm

re: #209 JasonA

Then how do you expect to stay current?

It's just as important to stay well grounded.

216 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #214 austin_blue

I'll use ability for resistance.

An electrical pun thread. How revolting.

217 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:08:46pm

re: #215 PT Barnum

It's just as important to stay well grounded.

Wire are we continuing this madness?

218 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:08:50pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh. That's really damn unfortunate.

In other news, I've been told that in hospital slang, the head of pediatrics is called "Captain Kangaroo".

That's a nicer hospital than where my brother practices -- they call peds the veterinary wing.

219 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:09:05pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Ohm not going to get into a pun thread.

Reports are that the crowd was electrified.

220 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:09:13pm

re: #204 austin_blue

In re: to the Pammygeller?

A) The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

B) Willful blindness.

C) She agrees with them.

D) She's an idiot.

This is multiple choice. Choose *all* that apply.

"Opportunistic nazi-penis sucking whore" works for me.

221 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:09:27pm

re: #187 Spare O'Lake

Am I the only one who finds the idea of a static demonstration shocking?

See what you started?

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:10:02pm

I know nothing about electricity, except for the on/off switch. And I'm fine with that. Keeps me out of the pun war.:)

223 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:10:07pm

I was, on the other hand, revolted.

224 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:10:37pm

re: #216 PT Barnum

An electrical pun thread. How revolting.

I find they really get me charged up.

225 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:11:03pm

re: #224 JasonA

I find they really get me charged up.

I refuse to let you get away with that.

226 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:11:10pm

re: #217 austin_blue

Wire are we continuing this madness?

Because beck has yet to respond to these negative charges.

227 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:11:16pm

And yes, I'm being short with you

228 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:11:45pm

re: #223 PT Barnum

I was, on the other hand, revolted.

What are you, some kind of socket puppet trying to get a plug in for the wingnuts?

229 RadicalModerate  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:11:53pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Well, well, well...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Of course, he's also wearing a cap based off the Confederate "Stars and Bars" flag.

230 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:12:09pm

re: #209 JasonA

Then how do you expect to stay current?

Wire you saying that?

231 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:12:14pm

re: #226 elbruce

Because beck has yet to respond to these negative charges.

This is an atom,

The electron on the outermost orbit is called Richie.
Richie Valence.

232 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:12:15pm

I wish you people would conduct yourselves better. The capacity shown here for bad puns is ..Ohm, my God, a shiny.

233 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:13:56pm

re: #228 austin_blue

What are you, some kind of socket puppet trying to get a plug in for the wingnuts?

If he is I hope Charles zaps him.

234 swamprat  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:14:16pm

re: #181 lostlakehiker

If a man has a crutch, you can bet he needs it.
However, if he doesn't need it, it will hinder him.
If he is afraid to give it up, and he is being hurt by it, the best solution is to gradually shorten it.
But that crutch wouldn't have existed if it wasn't needed at some point.

235 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:14:58pm

re: #233 JasonA

If he is I hope Charles zaps him.

Otherwise he'll go on the lecture circuit.

236 spikester  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:15:15pm

re: #232 b_sharp

no tit

237 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:15:25pm

And Charles starts a new thread in defense. :)

238 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:15:38pm

re: #235 PT Barnum

Otherwise he'll go on the lecture circuit.

It's good that you kids have an outlet here for your puns.

239 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:15:45pm

re: #236 spikester

no tit

Thanks for the mammaries.

240 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:15:48pm

re: #237 PT Barnum

And Charles starts a new thread in defense. :)

I, for one, will be surging upward.

241 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:16:01pm

re: #234 swamprat

If a man has a crutch, you can bet he needs it.
However, if he doesn't need it, it will hinder him.
If he is afraid to give it up, and he is being hurt by it, the best solution is to gradually shorten it.
But that crutch wouldn't have existed if it wasn't needed at some point.

I dislike this analogy; crutches are needed to make up for your own shortcomings. When you're trying to make up for someone else's mistreatment of you, it's more like a shield.

242 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:16:02pm

re: #235 PT Barnum

Otherwise he'll go on the lecture circuit.

Had to get on Mho in, didn't you?

243 cronus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:16:32pm

Question: In terms of substance, how does "Restoring Honor" differ from Burning Man?

244 spikester  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:17:11pm

re: #239 PT Barnum

wonder how many dont know where that ones from

245 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:17:33pm

re: #243 cronus

Question: In terms of substance, how does "Restoring Honor" differ from Burning Man?

Burning man has better art and much hotter chicks.

246 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:18:03pm

re: #244 spikester

wonder how many dont know where that ones from

They should do better at keeping abreast of things.

247 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:18:07pm

re: #243 cronus

Question: In terms of substance, how does "Restoring Honor" differ from Burning Man?

Burning man has more of it?

248 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:18:19pm

re: #232 b_sharp

I wish you people would conduct yourselves better. The capacity shown here for bad puns is ..Ohm, my God, a shiny.

Your attempt to fuse so many puns could constitute a battery.

249 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:19:29pm

re: #248 Spare O'Lake

Your attempt to fuse so many puns could constitute a battery.

Are you positive?

250 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:19:33pm

re: #247 elbruce

Burning man has more of it?

fixt

251 spikester  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:20:45pm

re: #243 cronus

big pharma is not as involved with burning man
looking at the hoard though...... if big pharma was not on the maul *nice pun* like they should have been

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:22:39pm

re: #243 cronus

Question: In terms of substance, how does "Restoring Honor" differ from Burning Man?

Less irony, less art, less sex.

253 swamprat  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:23:16pm

re: #241 elbruce

I knew a man who had family that owned slaves. They had to shoot one or two about every three months. You know, young upstarts. The kind of people that started America. Rebellious, free-thinking, freedom-loving radicals...were shot as a matter of course by farmers who just needed to get the crop in.

254 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:26:59pm

re: #253 swamprat

I knew a man who had family that owned slaves. They had to shoot one or two about every three months. You know, young upstarts. The kind of people that started America. Rebellious, free-thinking, freedom-loving radicals...were shot as a matter of course by farmers who just needed to get the crop in.

Rabid dogs were they?

255 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:28:45pm

re: #245 austin_blue

Burning man has better art and much hotter chicks.

And more naked people.

256 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:29:10pm

Please people, let's show some resistance to the puns.

257 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:29:19pm

re: #25 simoom

It's hard to tell for sure, but based on combining (in my head) some of the ground level crowd images I've browsed through I think that overview may be real:

The overview looks consistent with what I've seen on CNN. People seem to be pretty comfortable, sitting around. Here's a picture I took of the "We Are One" concert at the Lincoln Memorial. I'm standing at the rim of the Washington Monument with a 90mm lens. It was early in the show, and it was comfortably crowded where we were, it was ass to elbows along the reflecting pool up to 19th (?) St. and halfway up the hill to the Wash. Monument. Plus there was a good size crowd on the Mall when we walked bak to the Red Line about halfway through the show. It was also January. The estimate for that crowd was 400,000.

Image: l_e807463e1aa14728a62431f89c4c6910.jpg

So, half a million..don't think so. More then expected (for me) yep and nothing to sneeze at.

On the other hand. There were 800,000plus at the Million Man March. How that movement turn out? Yeah, exactly.

258 spikester  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:30:53pm

re: #256 elbruce

where's the pin in that?

259 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:34:57pm

re: #256 elbruce

Please people, let's show some resistance to the puns.

They won't resist on their own, they can't be induced, so this surge of puns must be from the magnetism of current events.

260 swamprat  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:35:14pm

re: #254 b_sharp

Uppity revolutionaries.

Todays entrepreneurs, activists, and businessmen.

261 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:44:45pm

re: #193 elbruce

Discrimination can be done subtly enough that the only way to detect it is through a statistical comparison of the outcome. If you administer a test and 90% of white people pass it and only 10% of black people do, then given a large enough sample size one can quite confidently say that there's something wrong with the test. As for admissions, the bar isn't actually set differently; race only counts between people equally qualified. The expected outcome can be determined taking into account how many qualified members of the minority race are in the applicant pool. If the actual admissions vary widely from that, then some other factor is at work, which is to say that someone involved in the admission process would have to be engaging in racism.

The central tactic of wingnuts regarding race issues is that opposing racism requires engaging in racism. They're lying.


The bolded assertion isn't remotely true. In medical school admissions, the average black admittee scores well below the average white rejectee, for instance. Race counts for about 200 SAT points, sometimes 300, or even 400 if it's between an Asian and a black, in University admissions.

Hiring statistics and experiments demonstrate that some sort of process, which can most generously be described as unwitting and tacit racial discrimination but might well be something more overt, is at work to the disadvantage of blacks. But when it comes to admissions, matters are the other way around and it's quite open and deliberate.

As to the italicized claim, yes, it's an outlandish result, a gross exaggeration of the actual, typical test gap. But what if 80% of whites, and 50% of blacks, pass? That's more often what is seen. There's a book, the Black-white test score gap, if you want documentation. Or you could look at the published NAEP results, which are broken down by race. Or almost any other database you care to pick.

If there has to be something wrong with that test, then all testing, of whatever sort, is being presumed wrong. The fact, though, is that many tests are valid predictors of real-world, relevant outcomes. The military, for instance, has established, meticulously, that its armed forces qualification tests are good predictors of who can successfully be trained to which military specialty in the available time.

When valid test results are thrown out so as to make the numbers come out, that's reverse discrimination, and it's just as wrong as direct discrimination. Throwing out valid test score results can also lead to tragic real-world outcomes. There was a fad for putting aside such results so as to get more women certified as carrier pilots a few years back, but the fad died when the unqualified-going-by-tests women pilots had too high an incidence of fatal accidents.

262 tnguitarist  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:45:15pm

re: #257 Jeff In Ohio

The crowd today was way more spread out. This is a DailyKos diary, but it has some good pics of the rally.

263 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:55:26pm

re: #262 tnguitarist

The crowd today was way more spread out. This is a DailyKos diary, but it has some good pics of the rally.

The first time I looked at the overhead picture, i thought the crowd was up towards the Wash. Monument. After looking again, it appears the shot covers the Lincoln Memorial to the WW2 Memorial. In that case, not so great. And like you said, people are in lawn chairs having a picnic.

I'd be surpirsed if there were more then 100k. Real surprised.

264 Lidane  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:05:08pm

Oh lawd. Some of my friends on Facebook have completely fallen for all of this "Restoring Honor" shit. Just posted:

Thank you Glenn Beck! You had a great speech today on the anniversary of another great speech by Martin Luther King. In attendance Alveda King(niece of MLK) and Sarah Palin. I agree with you on restoring our founding principles. I believe in faith, hope, and charity. I support our military. It is time "to turn back to God".

*sigh*

I just don't understand how people keep falling for Beck's nonsense. How?

265 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:06:13pm

re: #261 lostlakehiker

In medical school admissions, the average black admittee scores well below the average white rejectee, for instance.

That seems like a pretty strong claim there; I could see it if you were comparing admittees between groups A and B, or rejectees between groups A and B. But to say the average admittee of group A < the average rejectee from group B. So I pasted that sentence into Google, and the most relevant link I found involving similar claims was this:

However, unlike most critics of racial preferences, Farron examines his subject from a race realist perspective that acknowledges the reality of biological differences in intelligence among the races. This perspective enables him to see clearly how flimsy all the arguments commonly made in favor of affirmative action are. Farron also recognizes that the dogma of racial equality that underlies affirmative action inevitably leads to the corruption of academic standards.


It would be one thing to account for the differences in early education that exist between groups and how those might prepare them unequally for higher education. As well as whether affirmative action requirements for higher education do anything to change that.

But to flatly claim that the tests and admission processess are perfect can only lead to one conclusion: that all black peoples are stupid. I'm sure there are many people who are comfortable with that conclusion, but I ain't buying it.

266 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:07:52pm

re: #264 Lidane

I agree with you on restoring our founding principles. ... It is time "to turn back to God".

I just don't understand how people keep falling for Beck's nonsense. How?


All I know is, those two sentences from your quote are directly in contradiction with one another. Whatever country these people are talking about, it ain't the U.S.A.

267 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:10:43pm

re: #264 Lidane

Oh lawd. Some of my friends on Facebook have completely fallen for all of this "Restoring Honor" shit. Just posted:

*sigh*

I just don't understand how people keep falling for Beck's nonsense. How?

You get too many people turning back to God at the same time and he'll run for the hills.

268 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:20:52pm

Placeholder.

269 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:21:32pm

re: #267 b_sharp

You get too many people turning back to God at the same time and he'll run for the hills.

From all evidence, we scared the poor guy off for good sometime around the Dark Ages.

270 NamDoc67  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:36:51pm

Is anyone interested in the fact that the transcript linked by Charles does not support the headline to this post?

Beck does not state those characterizations of MLK. He quotes (and played a recording of) Julian Bond making those characterizations of MLK.

The entire point of what Beck does say is to try to figure out why a public figure like Bond would make those statements about MLK.

He seems to conclude that Bond is attemptng to legitimize currently unpopular radical socialist policies by linking radical socialism to a universally revered American icon.

271 elbruce  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:47:57pm

re: #270 NamDoc67

Beck does not state those characterizations of MLK. He quotes (and played a recording of) Julian Bond making those characterizations of MLK.

The entire point of what Beck does say is to try to figure out why a public figure like Bond would make those statements about MLK.

Wingnuts routinely do this - instead of saying "X," they say "look, somebody on the left is saying something that could be twisted to be taken as 'X.' I wonder why?"

BECK: I don't know when it became politically okay to say that Martin Luther King was a radical socialist. You wouldn't even say that about President Obama. If I got on the air and said the guy is a radical socialist, which I do, they hammer me to death! Well, if it's okay that Martin Luther King was a radical socialist, why is it bad to say Barack Obama is a radical socialist? Am I reading this wrong?


Yes, he's reading it wrong. What Bond said was:

But he was a bit more radical. Not terribly, terribly radical but a bit more radical than we make him out to be today.


Taking somebody else's words, stripping them of all nuance, applying them to someone else and then "wondering why" they would say your dumbed-down amped-up and misattributed version is hardly innocent curiousity. I'd say it's fooling no one, but apparently it fooled you.

272 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 2:54:51pm

re: #270 NamDoc67

Is anyone interested in the fact that the transcript linked by Charles does not support the headline to this post?

Beck does not state those characterizations of MLK. He quotes (and played a recording of) Julian Bond making those characterizations of MLK.

The entire point of what Beck does say is to try to figure out why a public figure like Bond would make those statements about MLK.

He seems to conclude that Bond is attemptng to legitimize currently unpopular radical socialist policies by linking radical socialism to a universally revered American icon.

Is it really news to you that he was socialist? That TPTB considered him so communist they thought he might be a Soviet agent, that's why he was being wiretapped? Than anti-King, pro-segregation rallies they had signs that said things like "race mixing is communism"...

King wasn't only about racial equality, he was about workers' rights and unionization, anti-poverty, anti-war, and so on.

you really didn't know any of that?

How old are you?

MLK was far, far to the left of any prominent elected official today. (unless you want to call Dennis Kucinich prominent?).

273 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #265 elbruce

That seems like a pretty strong claim there; I could see it if you were comparing admittees between groups A and B, or rejectees between groups A and B. But to say the average admittee of group A < the average rejectee from group B. So I pasted that sentence into Google, and the most relevant link I found involving similar claims was this:


It would be one thing to account for the differences in early education that exist between groups and how those might prepare them unequally for higher education. As well as whether affirmative action requirements for higher education do anything to change that.

But to flatly claim that the tests and admission processess are perfect can only lead to one conclusion: that all black peoples are stupid. I'm sure there are many people who are comfortable with that conclusion, but I ain't buying it.

Me either. It's not true, and the test data do not support that conclusion. As to med school admissions, you can dig around for the most extreme source that quotes the fact, but that doesn't un-fact the fact.

Here's a link fairtest.org says to a liberal site. They write

The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education estimated that if the top 10 highest-ranking medical schools in the nation dismantled their affirmative action policies and replaced them with strict MCAT cut-off scores, only 7 Black students would meet entrance requirements.4 Another study revealed that under admissions in which MCAT scores are of primary importance, the percentage of Blacks enrolled at the 25 most selective medical schools would drop from 10% to 1%.5 Derek Bok, former president of Harvard University, cautioned against this phenomenon: "The most dramatic effects in eliminating affirmative action would be on medical and law schools because the more selective the institution, the greater the impact, and nothing is more selective than medical school and law schools."

In any highly selective situation, the applicant pool is skewed, with a high concentration of applicants who almost qualify, but don't quite make the cut, and a small fraction of applicants who clear the bar with room to spare. This means that applicants who are accepted with substantially lower scores than the normal cutoff fall well below the majority of applicants who missed the cut.

This, it ought to be clear, does not mean that the applicants who miss the cut are "stupid". Far from it. Essentially all the applicants are quite a bit brighter than average.

274 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 3:30:03pm

re: #270 NamDoc67


He seems to conclude that Bond is attemptng to legitimize currently unpopular radical socialist policies by linking radical socialism to a universally revered American icon.

Why do the ass clowns always blow their wad with their first couple of thrusts? My friend you need to learn to control your impulse to take the money shot before you've set up your lover.

275 sagehen  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 3:48:46pm

re: #273 lostlakehiker

But MCAT and LSAT scores aren't everything, just like SAT scores aren't. Above a certain threshhold, they're all more than smart enough to learn the material, to correctly diagnose and know the right treatment, with the manual dexterity to do the work and the personality to be able to make patients feel comfortable.

Every highly selective college or grad school has 2 to 3 times as many "ideal" applicants as there's slots for; at some point, the admissions office also has to consider that patients and clients would like a range of options when seeking professional services, that maybe they're more likely to speak freely to someone from a similar background.

It's ridiculous to be offended that people ranked 98.76 got affirmative actioned over people ranked 98.83, when any applicant ranked over 96 is superb.

276 Lidane  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 4:11:08pm

re: #273 lostlakehiker

I'm not quite following the point of this argument.

Then again, I took the GRE cold, without any prep whatsoever, and scored well above what I needed for admission to the MBA program I'm in, so I'm not the best person to judge standardized tests.

277 Obdicut  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:18:19pm

re: #273 lostlakehiker

Test scores aren't everything, they aren't objective measures, and your claim about the military tests mapping to performance is total bullshit. It's kind of the inverse; the military tests many select against, not for.

278 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:42:49pm

re: #275 sagehen

But MCAT and LSAT scores aren't everything, just like SAT scores aren't. Above a certain threshhold, they're all more than smart enough to learn the material, to correctly diagnose and know the right treatment, with the manual dexterity to do the work and the personality to be able to make patients feel comfortable.

Every highly selective college or grad school has 2 to 3 times as many "ideal" applicants as there's slots for; at some point, the admissions office also has to consider that patients and clients would like a range of options when seeking professional services, that maybe they're more likely to speak freely to someone from a similar background.

It's ridiculous to be offended that people ranked 98.76 got affirmative actioned over people ranked 98.83, when any applicant ranked over 96 is superb.

Here we go again with the dramatic, and wrong, number games. Last time around, it was a claim that there must be something wrong with a test that 90% of whites, and 10% of blacks, pass. But where is such a test to be found? If one did pop up, it would be quite an anomaly, and quite rightly, people would be looking for the error in construction or scoring.

This time, it's two claims. First, that the differences we're talking about are a matter of 98.76 percentile vs. 98.83 percentile, where in fact they're larger than that, and second, that above the 96th percentile, everybody's pretty much equivalent.

The second claim flies in the face of the fact that many a doctor gets a diagnosis wrong that a better doctor gets right. Doctors are not demigods, and the bottom ten percent are not really much use to their patients. The bottom half, as a whole, are good at their jobs and deserving of society's respect, but when faced with a toughie, they're more likely to miss the call than those up in the top 10%.

It actually matters who you get. It matters who gets in.

As to the first claim, the test score gap tends to run at about 1 standard deviation. As the proportion of admittees to medical school does not perfectly track proportions in the overall population, the test score gap among the population in question, those admitted to medical school, is certainly less. For the sake of argument, let's split the difference and say it's 1/2 of a standard deviation. That would mean that the counterpart to the guy at the 98.83rd percentile stood not at the 98.76th percentile, but at the 93rd percentile. Bright. Quite bright. But---not likely to find his/her way into the top 90% of doctors, at least, not the top 90% as far as perceptiveness in diagnosis, say, is concerned. And, on the far side of your own 96th percentile suggested cutoff.

279 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 5:54:37pm

re: #276 Lidane

I'm not quite following the point of this argument.

Then again, I took the GRE cold, without any prep whatsoever, and scored well above what I needed for admission to the MBA program I'm in, so I'm not the best person to judge standardized tests.

Why not? Test scores indeed aren't everything. A smart but lazy student will not succeed. Certain physical attributes are necessary in some jobs; surgeons need exceptional fine motor skills, accountants need to be able to sustain concentration and not get bored.

But the tests we're talking about, including GRE and MCAT, do have substantial validity. They correlate positively with probability of timely graduation, for instance.

There are any number of "online" schools that happily admit anyone who can pay the tuition, and they tend to disappoint their students. The federal government is looking at this as a kind of fraud, as well it should.

Part of the fraud may be that the instruction is poor. But another part of it seems to be that students are admitted who, on the basis of their test scores, are most unlikely to succeed. And then, when they embark upon their studies, they do not succeed. They've been fleeced, frankly.

Your good score is an indicator that you ought to be able to cut it, assuming you put in the effort. The required effort is phenomenal compared to that needed to get through most undergraduate curricula, so complacency is a big mistake, but once you steel yourself to the effort, you can have some confidence that your work will pay off and you'll eventually earn your degree.

280 sagehen  Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:28:23am

re: #278 lostlakehiker

Here we go again with the dramatic, and wrong, number games. Last time around, it was a claim that there must be something wrong with a test that 90% of whites, and 10% of blacks, pass. But where is such a test to be found? If one did pop up, it would be quite an anomaly, and quite rightly, people would be looking for the error in construction or scoring.

The New Haven firefighters test that Sonia Sotomayor threw out, the one that caused such a fuss during her confirmation hearings... had just such a result.

281 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:35:44pm

re: #280 sagehen

The New Haven firefighters test that Sonia Sotomayor threw out, the one that caused such a fuss during her confirmation hearings... had just such a result.

OK, I went and dug up the actual results of that test, tables showing all test scores, ranked from highest to lowest, and the race of each. Your assertion

just such a result


amounts to this: you claim that there is a cutoff score that 90% of whites taking the test scored higher than, while 90% of blacks scored lower than that same cutoff. This is not true.

For the lieutenants exam, for instance, there were 43 whites taking the test, and 19 blacks. (There were also some Hispanics, but that is beside the point for this question. )

The median white score was 70.60. Six of the 19 black candidates did better than that. To emphasize: according to your claim, this test had results in which only two of the 19 black candidates scored as well as the tenth percentile of white candidates. However, in reality, six of the 19 scored better than the fiftieth percentile of white candidates.

To dot the i's and cross the t's, the tenth percentile white score was 57.8; with four of 43 white test-takers scoring 57.7 and the fifth-from-bottom scoring 57.97. In fact, not just 2, but 14, of the black test-takers scored better than this.

In other words, as a question of fact, it is nowhere near true that this New Haven firefighters test was

a test that 90% of whites, and 10% of blacks, pass

The actual test scores, and the break-out by race, were nowhere remotely as skewed as you say they were.

1 W 88.75 91 90.10
2 W 87.50 87 87.20
3 W 77.50 91 85.60
4 W 85.00 84 84.40
5 W 80.00 87 84.20
6 W 73.75 91 84.10
7 W 80.83 84 82.73
8 W 73.33 89 82.73
9 W 63.75 95 82.50
10 W 68.33 91 81.93
11 W 69.58 86 79.43
12 W 73.75 81 78.10
13 W 58.75 89 76.90
14 B 77.50 76 76.60
15 B 61.25 86 76.10
16 B 80.42 73 75.97
17 W 77.50 77 77.20
18 W 61.25 83 74.30
19 W 80.42 66 71.77
20 B 70.83 80 76.33
21 W 78.33 70 73.33
22 B 70.83 74 72.73
23 W 66.67 76 72.27
24 B 92.08 59 72.23
25 W 72.50 72 72.20
26 W 73.33 71 71.93
27 H 55.00 82 71.20
28 H 69.17 72 70.87
29 W 65.83 74 70.73
30 W 58.33 79 70.73
31 H 53.75 82 70.70
32 W 77.50 66 70.60
33 W 73.75 68 70.30
34 W 71.67 69 70.07
35 W 64.58 73 69.63
36 H 70.83 68 69.13
37 W 73.75 66 69.10
38 W 58.75 76 69.10
39 W 51.25 80 68.50
40 H 62.50 72 68.20
41 W 51.67 79 68.07
42 B 70.83 65 67.33
43 W 64.58 69 67.23
44 W 79.17 59 67.07
45 H 56.25 73 66.30
46 W 55.00 73 65.80
47 B 66.25 65 66.50
48 W 50.42 75 66.17
49 H 57.50 70 65.00
50 B 69.17 60 63.67
51 H 51.67 71 63.27
52 W 71.67 57 62.87
53 H 50.42 71 62.77
54 W 56.25 66 62.10
55 B 56.67 64 61.07
56 B 56.25 64 60.90
57 H 42.50 73 60.80
58 H 51.25 67 60.70
59 B 55.00 64 60.40
60 B 51.25 66 60.10
61 W 49.58 67 60.03
62 W 60.00 60 60.00
63 H 46.25 68 59.30
64 B 60.83 58 59.13
65 W 57.92 58 57.97
66 W 51.25 62 57.70
67 W 44.58 66 57.43
68 H 44.17 66 57.27
69 W 45.42 65 57.17
70 B 55.83 58 57.13
71 W 54.58 58 56.63
72 B 58.75 55 56.50
73 H 40.83 64 54.73
74 B 52.08 56 54.43
75 H 48.33 58 54.13
76 B 52.92 49 50.57
77 B 45.83 46 45.93


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