Video: Inside the Violent World of the English Defense League

WorldAugust 2010 • Views: 5,626

Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller thinks Newsweek is out to get her, of course, and she doubles down on her support for the far right thugs of the English Defense League — and announces that she’s bringing them to the US to participate in her anti-Muslim protest on September 11.

Thought you might like to see this piece Mark Hosenball did on the EDL. Clearly the left is attempting to split the counter jihad movement. They want me to distance myself from brave souls fighting Islamic supremacism. N-O-T G-O-I-N-G T-O H-A-P-P-E-N.

If I lived in England, I would surely be active in the EDL Jewish division. Members of the EDL will be attending our rally to stop the Ground Zero Islamic supremacist mosque on September 11th (be there).

People I know in Britain have told me that over there, there’s absolutely no doubt that the EDL is a violent, hardcore group of extremists and racists, with neo-Nazi and BNP roots. Geller is relying on Americans’ lack of knowledge about British politics to try to portray the EDL as peace-loving patriots, when the truth is exactly the opposite.

Here’s a documentary produced by the Guardian showing the actual people who belong to the EDL, doing what they actually do. The video, shot last May, includes undercover footage of the EDL goons planning to “hit” Bradford — which they just did.

This is what Pamela Geller is working hard to import to America.

Youtube Video

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47 comments

DaddyG Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:01:23pm

Soccer Hooligans on hate.

Obdicut Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:05:10pm

I knew a guy in England who would join the Black Bloc anarchists for one protest, and then the EDL for another. He just hated other humans. And the EDL knew this, and they didn't care, they liked him because he was a violent little shit who would throw the first brick.

Isn't there some law against inviting people to the US who foment civil unrest?

sattv4u2 Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:09:25pm

re: #2 Obdicut

Isn't there some law against inviting people to the US who foment civil unrest?

As someone who was around when The Beatles 1st came to the states to hordes of screaming fans,I would say no! ,,,,,

///

Kronocide Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:09:43pm

I hope they act like they did in the videos. The canard that 'Newsweek is trying to split anti-Jihadi forces' will sound even sillier after the video in the MSM.

Stanghazi Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:11:48pm

re: #4 BigPapa

I hope they act like they did in the videos. The canard that 'Newsweek is trying to split anti-Jihadi forces' will sound even sillier after the video in the MSM.

If they do, that will be the desecration everyone is talking about. No doubt.

Geller is a fool.

Kragar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:12:04pm

Football hooligans to launch 'European Defence League' in Amsterdam

The English Defence League (EDL), the anti-Muslim 'street army' composed largely of football hooligans that burst onto the front pages of British newspapers in the last year as a result of its often violent protests, is to hold a rally in Amsterdam in October, EUobserver has learnt.

The EDL is to demonstrate in support of Geert Wilders, the Dutch anti-immigrant firebrand, with a recently launched French Defence League and Dutch Defence League, modelled on the English group, to join them along with other anti-Islamic militants from across Europe.

Formed in 2009, the EDL has held over a dozen often rowdy marches and demonstrations in cities across Britain over the last year. Protests that attracted only a couple hundred militants at the end of last year are now bringing thousands out. On Saturday (28 August) a rally in Bradford, West Yorkshire, home to the second-largest community of south Asians in the UK, turned ugly when members clashed with police and pelted anti-racist activists with bricks, bottles and smoke bombs. Thirteen were arrested, according to media reports.

Anti-racist watchdogs call the EDL one of the most worrying developments on the far-right scene in the UK since the 1970s and the days of the National Front, an openly white supremacist and neo-Nazi political party. The group now appears to be meeting with some success in exporting its novel brand of nativism to the continent, a combination of anti-Muslim vitriol, aggressive street marches and attempts to rope in football hooligan gangs by holding rallies around the same time as matches.

Graeme Atkinson, European editor of Searchlight magazine, a UK anti-fascist journal, says that the group is "tapping into a widespread and growing Islamophobia in society," in a way that other far-right groups, weighed down with explicitly fascist iconography and discourse, have not been able to.

Aceofwhat? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:14:57pm

Super.

You know, Pam, when we asked the world for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shore", we meant the tired and the poor, not the drunk and the fascist.

Wozza Matter? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:16:12pm

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

Super.

You know, Pam, when we asked the world for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shore", we meant the tired and the poor, not the drunk and the fascist.

oh snap!

sattv4u2 Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:17:12pm

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

Super.

You know, Pam, when we asked the world for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shore", we meant the tired and the poor, not the drunk and the fascist.

My paternal grandmother and her sisters never would have been let in!!!

They did like their "taste" each evening, the O'Brien sisters did !

Kronocide Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:18:21pm

I hope Geller continues to double down on this. It will be a Breitbartian flameout, maybe bigger then Breitbart original blowout.

Cato the Elder Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:19:13pm

By the way, I knew Breitbart would join the anti-mosque crowd. His campaign against black people fizzled, and he was crying in the corner because all those other bigots were getting more attention all the sudden.

Now he's switched to hating Muslims, the racist flavor of the year.

darthstar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:19:14pm

The EDL has a "Jewish Division?" Uh, Pam...you really do have your head up your ass. They have a Jewish Division just as much as they have a Mormon Division, a Buddhist Division, a Hindu Division and a Pastafarian Division. They're fuckin' racists...period.

elizajane Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:20:05pm

"The EDL Jewish Division?" Oh for God's sake, Ms Geller, these men are skinheads! Jews are their friends today because Jews are useful tools against the enemies of the moment, Muslims. Yesterday, Jews were the enemies. It's the racist ideology. You can't "join" them, you can only be used by them. Can't you see that?

The great architectural historian, Nikolaus Pevsner, was a German Jew who supported the Nazis because he liked their promise of a bright, clean future for Germany. He liked their patriotism. Even as his colleagues were being fired from universities for being Jewish, he actually thought this was the right thing. Proving that even smart people can be co-opted, although "smart" is clearly not Ms. Geller's problem.

Kragar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:20:23pm

re: #12 darthstar

The EDL has a "Jewish Division?" Uh, Pam...you really do have your head up your ass. They have a Jewish Division just as much as they have a Mormon Division, a Buddhist Division, a Hindu Division and a Pastafarian Division. They're fuckin' racists...period.

They do have a Jewish division, they get to wear little armbands with gold stars on them and everything.

Wait just a sec

darthstar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:23:03pm

re: #11 Cato the Elder

By the way, I knew Breitbart would join the anti-mosque crowd. His campaign against black people fizzled, and he was crying in the corner because all those other bigots were getting more attention all the sudden.

Now he's switched to hating Muslims, the racist flavor of the year.

I've been saying this for a couple of weeks myself. Poor Breitbart...nobody was paying attention to him anymore and black people were no longer the enemy du jour...It must suck to miss the bandwagon.

zora Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:24:26pm

re: #12 darthstar

The EDL has a "Jewish Division?" Uh, Pam...you really do have your head up your ass. They have a Jewish Division just as much as they have a Mormon Division, a Buddhist Division, a Hindu Division and a Pastafarian Division. They're fuckin' racists...period.

i thought it was bullshit too. kilgore clued me in...

What are Israeli flags and Jewish activists doing at demonstrations sponsored by the English Defence League?

Roberta Moore, 39, a petite woman in a colorful outfit, speaks in a rolling Brazilian accent and works for a commercial firm. A Jew born in Rio de Janeiro, she once lived in Israel and now resides in north London. She is not exactly the stereotypical EDL member the media likes to depict, but Moore is one of the most prominent activists in the group's so-called Jewish division. In her heart she is an unrestrained Kahanist - at least according to fans on her Facebook page.

They're an extremist terrorist group. Very nasty folks.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Boondock St. Bender Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:25:29pm

looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
someone is gonna get killed sooner or later...The leadership(if it can be called that)may think they have their group under control...those guys want a riot..and sooner or later they'll have it.

Kragar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:27:55pm

re: #15 darthstar

I've been saying this for a couple of weeks myself. Poor Breitbart...nobody was paying attention to him anymore and black people were no longer the enemy du jour...It must suck to miss the bandwagon.

If Lord Haha had just waited a generation or two, he would have gotten his own TV show and book deals instead of being executed for treason.

Aceofwhat? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:28:06pm

re: #9 sattv4u2

My paternal grandmother and her sisters never would have been let in!!!

They did like their "taste" each evening, the O'Brien sisters did !

i'm all about a good taste...been drinking scotch lately. one glass per night. yummy.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:29:18pm

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

Super.

[Video]You know, Pam, when we asked the world for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shore", we meant the tired and the poor, not the drunk and the fascist.

Sounds like a soap opera starring a certain shrieking harpy.

sattv4u2 Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:29:49pm

re: #19 Aceofwhat?

i'm all about a good taste...been drinking scotch lately. one glass per night. yummy.

Just ONE glass??

[Link: beerbeer.org...]

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:30:03pm

The latest European fascist talking point is to claim they support Israel and Jews in order to gain wider acceptance. Sub groups like the Jewish Division of the EDL are essentially an Anglo Kahanist group. Otherwise, the EDL and their Sikh leader are using their Jewish members only as a means of increasing their numbers to attack the Muslim community in the UK.

Aceofwhat? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:30:08pm

re: #20 negativ

Sounds like a soap opera starring a certain shrieking harpy.

All My Nazi Children/

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:30:39pm

re: #23 Aceofwhat?

All My Nazi Children/

As the World Burns

Lidane Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:30:40pm

re: #17 Boondock St. Bender

looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

That's because it is.

Who wants to bet that as soon as some EDL nutjob kills someone while protesting Park51, Pamz and the other mental midgets will call that person a liberal plant, or otherwise downplay their racism/Islamophobia?

sattv4u2 Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:31:06pm

re: #23 Aceofwhat?

All My Nazi Children/

The Dumb And The Restless

darthstar Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:32:09pm

re: #17 Boondock St. Bender

The leadership(if it can be called that)may think they have their group under control...those guys want a riot..and sooner or later they'll have it.

These guys don't even get along with themselves. The first time I was in England for work I happened into a neighborhood bar not far from my hotel in Swindon (about 70 miles west of London). I started playing pool and bullshitting with one of the locals (who turned out to be a skinhead). He was quite nice to me (as I was buying the drinks), but then another bloke came in - similar garb, tattoos from neck to wrist (hey, I don't judge people on their appearance), and suddenly the guy I was talking to took on a much more hostile tone, speaking loudly about people from the North (the other guy was from Leeds, this guy was from London). Well, I managed to get my ass out of the bar before fists were flying, but it wasn't until the next day when I told my clients at Nationwide where I'd been drinking that I realized just how dangerous a bar that was...total fuckin' skin-head hang-out, and on the DO NOT VISIT list for most locals, let alone tourists.

Wozza Matter? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:32:23pm

re: #23 Aceofwhat?

All My Nazi Children/

One Foot in the (mass) Grave..........
/

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:33:07pm

re: #28 wozzablog

One Foot in the (mass) Grave...
/

General Mental Hospital

Aceofwhat? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #29 negativ

General Mental Hospital

Guiding White

DaddyG Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:35:21pm

The Bald and the Bundiful

A Man for all Seasons Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:35:25pm

re: #30 Aceofwhat?

Guiding White

Falcon Crud..

sattv4u2 Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:35:41pm

re: #27 darthstar

"Is this a private fight or can anyone jump in?"

(yes ,, i know it's originally an "Irish" joke,, but ,,, "

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:36:37pm

Well, those are scary videos.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and all I can come up with are some young men who feel insecure and can't resolve the cognitive dissonance between having been taught they are the superior race and the evidence of their own eyes, which is that they are not doing so hot, personally.

That, and alcohol.

Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:39:40pm

I'm concerned about EDL anchor babies on this trip. Will they be eligible for nirth certificates?
/

Wozza Matter? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:41:00pm

re: #31 DaddyG

The Bald and the Bundiful

The Love (gun) Boat
/

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:41:34pm

The BNP past of the EDL leader Nick Lowles and Simon Cressy expose Tommy Robinson

Tommy Robinson in Newcastle Searchlight can exclusively reveal that the leader of the English Defence League is a former British National Party member who has served 12 months’ imprisonment for assaulting an off-duty police officer.

Self-proclaimed EDL leader Tommy Robinson is really Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, from Bedford.

In 2004 he joined the BNP with a family membership. In the same year he assaulted an off-duty police officer who intervened to stop a domestic incident between Yaxley-Lennon and his partner Jenna Vowles. During the scuffle Yaxley-Lennon kicked the officer in the head.

He was convicted on 18 April 2005 for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, for which he was sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment, and assault with intent to resist arrest, for which he received a concurrent term of three months.

Vowles, also a BNP member, was cautioned for possession of cocaine. She told the court that the she found two empty bags in her house and was taking them out so that her parents did not find them.

Yaxley-Lennon attended Putteridge High School in Luton and moved to nearby Bedford more recently. Robinson also claims on his Facebook site that he attended Putteridge school.

The revelation that Robinson had been a member of the BNP explains why so many of the initial EDL activists also attended BNP meetings in the Luton/Bedford area.

More importantly, it dispels the myth that the roots of the EDL are not in hard-core racism.

It destroys the protestations by the EDL leadership that, “They aren’t the BNP and they aren’t Nazis,” made at their phoney press conference held last September in a disused Luton warehouse, where they unfurled a swastika flag and proceeded to try to set it alight for the cameras.

It also explains the real reason why Robinson felt the need to hide his face.

Apart from his BNP membership and his convictions for violence, Robinson told a BBC film crew that he lived in a part of Luton where Islamic fanatics lived and that he feared for his safety. The reality is somewhat different as he lives in Wilstead, a relatively leafy village on the outskirts of Bedford.

The exposure of his identity follows a split in the EDL that is mostly being fought over the internet.

Paul Ray, self-styled spiritual guru of the EDL, has posted a series of messages on his Lionheart blog, in which he and his friend Nick Greger announce their intention to take control of the EDL. Ray was the original mover in creating the EDL, although he quickly fell out with the other leaders and moved abroad to Malta. Ray has focused his efforts on making Crusader-themed anti-Muslim promotional videos, and he and Greger have just issued a notice of “expulsion” of the EDL’s leaders, together with a demand for control of the EDL’s websites...

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:41:46pm

In one of their videos Greger goes on to say “another well-known man will soon appear within the new leadership, a man from Ulster, who is also currently in exile”.
The real face of the EDL leader: Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, alias Tommy Robinson

This is almost certainly a reference to Greger’s friend Johnny Adair, a prominent loyalist terrorist who now lives in Scotland following an intra-loyalist feud. Adair’s friendship with Greger was the subject of a television documentary in 2006, when Adair met Greger while in prison for plotting acts of terror and was then the head of a nazi group in Dresden, Germany.

It is thought that Ray and Greger were responsible for the appearance of a video on YouTube that unveiled Robinson as Stephen Yaxley along with a series of photographs, following outlandish claims by Ray that the EDL led by Robinson threatened to kidnap and harm members of Ray’s family.

Robinson later confirmed on his Facebook page that the photographs were indeed of him, saying, “Hey at least people can see my hansome [sic] face now”.

A Man for all Seasons Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:43:01pm

re: #36 wozzablog

The Love (gun) Boat
/

The Good, Bad and the ~~Ugly~~ Fat Nazi

Wozza Matter? Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:44:46pm

re: #39 HoosierHoops

The Good, Bad and the ~~Ugly~~ Fat Nazi

The Office (of Propaganda)

Eclectic Infidel Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:46:22pm

She can try to import the EDL and its ideology but eventually she will meet resistance. If this BS comes to the Bay Area, I'll make time to counter demonstrate against this sort of bigotry. Let's face it. Groups such as this aren't going to limit their prejudice to Muslims. Of course, living in the Bay Area also means we're probably well-insulated from such groups forming as well. I know there's a tea party group in the Bay Area - it even stood by us at one anti-Israel rally, recently, without incident. The video is on YouTube. Go figure.

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:47:37pm

Police shoot out tyres of English Defence League member as seven are arrested over mosque 'bomb plot'
By Luke Salkeld
Last updated at 11:11 AM on 28th July 2010

The quaint streets of Corfe Castle are rarely disturbed by anything louder than the click of a photographer taking shots of the famous ruins.

But the small amount of traffic that passes through the Dorset village came to a dramatic standstill - after armed police opened fire on a van in broad daylight.

After secretly pursuing the vehicle, they waited until it came to halt, and then burst out into the road firing rounds into the tyres.

They then smashed a window and dragged the driver out in shocking scenes that followed an investigation into alleged plans to blow up a nearby mosque.

As the stunned residents of Corfe Castle witnessed the police shoot out, several more arrests took place across the county.

Yesterday, as it emerged that none of the men had been charged with any crimes, police insisted the tyre shooting had been safe.

Officers had followed England Defence League member John Broomfield, 27, home from work and waited until he was stuck in traffic in the tourist spot before they pounced.

The marksmen used special rapid tyre deflation rounds to disable the white Ford Escort van.

Police then swooped on Mr Broomfield's home in Swanage and seized computer equipment, mobile phones and passports.

At the same time, five other members of the far right EDL and another person were arrested at various addresses on suspicion of conspiracy to cause an explosion at a Bournemouth mosque.

Continues.

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:51:15pm

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon EDL Leader

The Background
# On 18th April 2005, in the Luton Crown Court, this appellant was convicted by a majority of 11.1 of assault occasioning actual bodily harm (Count One) and by a majority of 10-2 of assault with intent to resist arrest (Count Two). He was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment on Count One and 3 months imprisonment concurrent on Count Two. He appeals by way of leave of the single judge.

The prosecution case
# The incident in question took place in Luton at around 3am on 4th July 2004. The victim was an off duty police officer called Dalton. He and his neighbours Mr and Mrs Bye were woken by an argument in the street between the appellant and his girlfriend Jenna Vowles. Although living in the same street, Dalton and the Byes did not know each other. Concerned by the screaming and raised voices, the three of them went into the street from their homes.

# The appellant was described as being "on a short fuse" and that "something had riled him". Miss Vowles was sobbing and hysterical wanting nothing to do with him. Dalton concerned for Miss Vowles, told the appellant that he should let her go home alone. He indicated that he was a police officer and showed the appellant his warrant card. He tried to bring the appellant to the ground. Both men fell to the ground. The appellant managed to get to his feet and kicked Mr Dalton in the head. Dalton had thrown no punches. Dalton then stood up and told the appellant that he was arresting him for assaulting a police officer. It was subsequently decided that such an arrest would not be prudent and that the Byes who had witnessed the whole incident, would ascertain the appellant's address.

The defence case
# In interview and in evidence, the appellant said that he had been out clubbing. He had drunk one bottle of Smirnoff Vodka. He and Jenna Vowles had an argument. She had dropped her mobile phone and was on her hands and knees trying to pick it up. The eye witnesses must have assumed that he was the aggressor. Dalton came up to him. He asked the appellant what he was doing. His breath smelled of alcohol. Jenna was not sobbing or crying. Dalton told him he was not going home and pushed him around, pushing him in the face and pulled his legs from under him. He did not produce a warrant card or say he was a police officer. The appellant did not kick him. It was only at the end when Dalton was threatening him that he indicated he was a police officer. The appellant did not believe him. He suggested that Mr Bye knew Dalton as he addressed Dalton by his Christian name, telling him to leave it and go home. The appellant and Jenna then ran home.

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:55:35pm

re: #43 Gus 802

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon EDL Leader

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon aka Tommy Robinson.

Gus Tue, Aug 31, 2010 2:56:34pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Football hooligans to launch 'European Defence League' in Amsterdam

From that article:

Ground Zero 'Mosque'

The EDL has received endorsements from Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, two of the main agitators behind the right-wing movement opposed to a Muslim community centre being built two blocks away from the site of Al Qaeda's attacks on New York in 2001, the so-called Ground Zero Mosque. Geert Wilders, for his part, is scheduled to speak at a protest in Manhattan on 11 September this year by Stop Islamization of America (SIOA) against the building of the community centre.

Although Mr Wilders is not thought to have direct links with the EDL, SIOA is an affiliate organisation of Stop Islamisation of Europe (SIOE), which has marched alongside the English hooligan movement. SIOE itself was founded in 2007 by Anders Gravers, previously the leader of a tiny Danish party called Stop the Islamisation of Denmark (Stop Islamiseringen af Danmark), in reaction to the Jyllands-Posten Mohammed cartoon controversy. On 11 September 2007, the SIOE staged a demonstration in Brussels.

Other affiliate organisations have been created in 10 European countries including Denmark, Russia, Finland, France, Germany, Norway, Poland, Romania, and Sweden and the United States of America. Mr Gravers is reportedly on friendly terms with Mr Wilders, is his "friend" on Facebook and will be speaking alongside him at the anti-Mosque rally in New York.

The demonstration in Amsterdam is due to take place on 30 October, according to the EDL website. Mr Wilders heads to court at the end of next month on charges of inciting racism. The case begins 5 October, with a verdict expected 2 November.

Joining them there will be members of the recently formed Dutch Defence League' and French Defence League, both modelled on the EDL. The latter draws its members from the ranks of far-right supporters of the Paris Saint Germain football club, known in France for long harbouring a far-right element among the club's supporters, although elsewhere on the continent, according to EDL spokesman Steve Simmons, not all the defence-league-linked groups have their origins in football hooliganism.

Turu The Terrible Tue, Aug 31, 2010 4:16:04pm

Yobs Save The Queen!

Wishbone Thu, Sep 2, 2010 12:42:42pm

re: #27 darthstar

These guys don't even get along with themselves. The first time I was in England for work I happened into a neighborhood bar not far from my hotel in Swindon (about 70 miles west of London). I started playing pool and bullshitting with one of the locals (who turned out to be a skinhead). He was quite nice to me (as I was buying the drinks), but then another bloke came in - similar garb, tattoos from neck to wrist (hey, I don't judge people on their appearance), and suddenly the guy I was talking to took on a much more hostile tone, speaking loudly about people from the North (the other guy was from Leeds, this guy was from London). Well, I managed to get my ass out of the bar before fists were flying, but it wasn't until the next day when I told my clients at Nationwide where I'd been drinking that I realized just how dangerous a bar that was...total fuckin' skin-head hang-out, and on the DO NOT VISIT list for most locals, let alone tourists.

Late to proceedings, as ever.........but anyway.......

I'm a skinhead. I'd not like to be saddled with any association with the neo-nazi brain donors who are the subject of the article, but the fact remains : I'm a skinhead.

Britain is possibly the one place where defining the sub species of Skin' is perhaps helpful.

As for your anecdote..... that North v South crap has been going on in England since the dawn of time. I've seen men in tank tops and cricket gear having at it over the same thing, so a couple of skins going toe to toe in a skin pub over it isn't that unusual.

Spy Mode Auto

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