Breaking: Hostages Taken at Discovery Building in Silver Spring

US News • Views: 4,327

SWAT teams have just entered the offices of the Discovery Channel in Silver Spring, Maryland, where a gunman has apparently taken hostages: Reported standoff at Discovery Channel building in Silver Spring.

The hostage taker has reportedly posted his demands online at this completely insane page: savetheplanetprotest.com.

The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:

1. The Discovery Channel and it’s affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn’s “My Ishmael” pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other’s inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!

2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs’ places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.

3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!

It goes on and on like this. And based on this crazed screed, I’m quite sure that the wingnut blogs will immediately start crowing that this person is a left winger. Predicted headline: “VIOLENT LEFT WING RAAAACIST MOONBAT TAKES HOSTAGES! RIGHT WING EXONERATED!”

Jump to bottom

252 comments
1 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:26:05am

ABC is saying that the building is likely secure. Cops are moving toward the building and an EMT crew has entered.

2 sadhu  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:26:21am

live - [Link: www.tbd.com...]

3 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:27:24am

I still can't get over how he goes on and on about how there are too many people, but he still really really really hates war.

4 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:27:24am

Just send in Kate Gosselin. She could take him out with one hand tied behind her back.//

5 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:29:06am

"The suspect is an Asian male, police said."
and right now, the newsreporter is interviewing his wife, who works in the discovery building.
weird coincidence..

6 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:29:07am

re: #4 tradewind

Just send in Kate Gosselin. She could take him out with one hand tied behind her back.//

Two minutes with her and he'd be begging to get out.

7 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:30:43am

re: #6 Alecto
That was my point.
Scary woman. Although I do have to hand it to her for standing up for her kids and making sure there's money for them later, because their coke-head daddy's not going to help.

8 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:31:11am

It's crazy out there right now. There are sharpshooters all around the building, there are vehicles everywhere, and it's crazy. Just for the record, I've only heard a total of two shots which sounded like they may have come from a pistol.

9 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:31:20am

re: #5 deranged cat
Could all be a smokescreen to take out the little woman......

10 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:31:22am

Here is a website that the suspect blogs at. He posts some insane stuff.

[Link: savetheplanetprotest.yuku.com...]

11 abolitionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:32:05am

"Demands" ..

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

The humans? The planet does not need humans.

Some elements of environmentalism have a very dark side.

12 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:33am

I have some pictures of this, I'll post them once it's over.

13 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:39am

re: #5 deranged cat
In Europe, ' asian ' is press code for 'muslim '. At least it's American press, so he's probably actually Asian.//

14 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:40am

Level 3 hazmat response team request just came over the scanner to the site. Asian male suspect ID'ed, they are talking to him.

15 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:47am

re: #11 abolitionist

Some elements of environmentalism have a very dark side.

Sadly, Discovery Networks probably would have given him a show if he hadn't done this given their track record.

16 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:50am
I'm quite sure that the wingnut blogs will immediately start crowing that this person is a left winger.

In this case they very likely would be right, but in a broken clock kind of way. Almost always environmental advocates who go to this far of an illogical extreme (Voluntary Human Extinction and such) are shrieking barking moonbats of the type that makes the normal leftist look like Ronald Reagan in comparison.

17 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:33:52am

re: #11 abolitionist

He forgot the Trees.

Youtube Video
18 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:34:08am

This man HATES mankind. He really, really hates human beings.

What kind of weirdo hates babies. I can see feeling that people should only have babies they can taken care of and feed, but he just hates them.

19 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:34:15am

re: #14 avanti

Hazmat? That would be odd.

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:34:33am

re: #18 EmmmieG

This man HATES mankind. He really, really hates human beings.

What kind of weirdo hates babies. I can see feeling that people should only have babies they can taken care of and feed, but he just hates them.

(Full disclosure: I turn into a pile of babbling goo in the presence of a baby.)

21 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:34:39am

re: #19 windsagio

Hazmat? That would be odd.

Not if he has a bomb of some sort.

22 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:34:42am

re: #12 MrSilverDragon
Cool. But keep your head down 'til its over.

23 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:35:27am

re: #19 windsagio

Hazmat? That would be odd.

Apparently the individual is wearing what appears to be tanks on his back, no idea what's in them though.

Better safe than sorry.

24 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:35:29am

re: #12 MrSilverDragon

I have some pictures of this, I'll post them once it's over.

Dude, once again. Be safe. I have to leave for work in 5 minutes, but just wanted to repost this. Fucking nutballs.

25 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:35:29am

re: #19 windsagio

Hazmat? That would be odd.

That's what just came over the scanner, no idea what level 3 is. They requested mobile canteens too.

26 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:35:33am

If this is not a moonbat, then what is? Heh.

27 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:35:52am

MSNBC has all but confirmed that we are right on the money with the identity of the gunman.

Seriously, you guys are excellent at finding information.

28 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:06am

re: #23 MrSilverDragon

thanks for keeping us updated. as everyone else says, keep your head down and stay safe.

29 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:10am

re: #20 EmmmieG
There's an extreme segment that thinks babies are expendable up until about aged two. Humans, in their view, continue their gestation period outside the womb, unlike other mammals.
Well, there are the marsupials. Forgot about them.

30 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:12am

re: #18 EmmmieG

Look up "Childfree" and "Childfree Hardcore" sometime, if you're curious.

No really, don't, unless you want to hear a bunch of dickbags complaining about how people are evil and inconsiderate about even HAVING kids.

31 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:36am

re: #25 avanti

That's what just came over the scanner, no idea what level 3 is. They requested mobile canteens too.

Level 3 is the highest level response. Usually for chemicals and the like.

32 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:50am

re: #29 tradewind

wait, who thinks babies are expendable until age 2?!

33 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:36:59am

re: #31 Varek Raith

Level 3 is the highest level response. Usually for chemicals and the like.

Thanks.

34 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:37:01am

re: #5 deranged cat

"The suspect is an Asian male, police said."

I predict a South Park episode in the future.

35 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:37:30am

re: #34 webevintage

if it were in season yeah, the timing is probably wrong. Too much lag, I think >>

36 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:37:31am

I hope they can come to a peaceful solution. Bring the gunman in and punish him to the fullest extent of the law.

There's no way I can be a SWAT commander, I'm too aggressive when it comes to situations like this. I would want to go in and pop him right away. Hope they don't have to storm the building, but I hope that if they do, the only casualty would be the gunman.

37 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:37:36am

re: #23 MrSilverDragon
Crap. Hope he didn't whip up a batch of homemade sarin. It's not all that difficult.
Maybe he has oxygen in anticipation of tear gas.

38 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:38:39am

re: #32 windsagio
Can't remember the nut's name, but I've read his stuff. Since humans can't get up and run with the herd right after birth, they're not really ' all done' for months.

39 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:38:57am

re: #37 tradewind

Crap. Hope he didn't whip up a batch of homemade sarin. It's not all that difficult.
Maybe he has oxygen in anticipation of tear gas.

Good call.

40 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:39:02am

re: #16 ArchangelMichael

In this case they very likely would be right, but in a broken clock kind of way. Almost always environmental advocates who go to this far of an illogical extreme (Voluntary Human Extinction and such) are shrieking barking moonbats of the type that makes the normal leftist look like Ronald Reagan in comparison.

Yep, this is a case where a crazy person has taken some left wing ideas and gone all the way nuts with them. The key word is "nuts" here.

But I can totally predict the stupid narrative that's now going to start pouring out of the wingnut blogs and media. They won't be able to stop gloating.

41 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:39:19am

re: #38 tradewind

So a single nut, that's moderately believable.

You should watch you you frame things :p

42 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:39:43am

71C is for bomb group only, all others, go to 71D ???

43 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:39:46am

re: #30 windsagio

Look up "Childfree" and "Childfree Hardcore" sometime, if you're curious.

No really, don't, unless you want to hear a bunch of dickbags complaining about how people are evil and inconsiderate about even HAVING kids.

Yet when they are 70, they will head off to a doctor that somebody else raised and sacrificed their personal freedom to raise. They will want to benefit from a society that is comprised entirely of other people's children.

Yes, unborn children never become psycho gunmen in the Discovery building, but they also never invent life-saving medical procedures, new clean sources of energy, write books, or write music.

The emphasis should be on doing a good job with the children who are born.

(I will confess that when I look at modern society, I do feel like there's too much emphasis on stuff and the acquisition of stuff.

44 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:40:02am

DCist:

Police are now speaking with the man inside the building, but are not confirming much less, other than he is an Asian male, his concerns are with Discovery and that it is possible that he has a bomb. WTOP's Adam Tuss reports that most employees have been evacuated. WUSA9 has now tweeted that their report that their report of the gunman's demands have not been confirmed.

The demands referenced are the manifesto that was apparently first posted in 2008.

45 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:40:23am

re: #40 Charles

They'll be using it to show 'the left is just as bad' as the racist fucks in the tea party.

46 abolitionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:40:26am

re: #38 tradewind

Can't remember the nut's name, but I've read his stuff. Since humans can't get up and run with the herd right after birth, they're not really ' all done' for months.

The name at the bottom of his manifesto is Lee.

47 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:41:04am

re: #46 abolitionist

The name at the bottom of his manifesto is Lee.

That's the moonbat, confirmed.

48 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:41:22am

re: #30 windsagio

Look up "Childfree" and "Childfree Hardcore" sometime, if you're curious.

No really, don't, unless you want to hear a bunch of dickbags complaining about how people are evil and inconsiderate about even HAVING kids.

Or these batshit crazy kooks.

And yes, the "Childfree" movement is full of the most arrogant and infuriating assholes I've ever encountered.

49 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:41:36am

re: #41 windsagio
Okay, I'll think about watching my my frame thing.
Although no one's complained, at home./

50 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:41:50am

re: #40 Charles

It's not left wing. More like green wing insanity.

51 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:42:18am

re: #13 tradewind

In Europe, ' asian ' is press code for 'muslim '. At least it's American press, so he's probably actually Asian.//

In the UK, "Asian" refers to...the continent of Asia. Including India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.

52 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:42:20am

I think it's really a winger who's doing this to discredit the left.

//

53 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:42:28am

re: #50 harald

It's not left wing. More like green wing insanity.

ELF on steroids.

54 teleskiguy  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:42:44am

My friend next to me came up with this interesting point while I was reading aloud this loons demands. He said that crazy dude already is extremely conflicted in that he wants to stop all human birth but he doesn't want to kill anyone. I laughed pretty hard at that!

55 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:42:51am

re: #43 EmmmieG

A gift for you, if you need to get your heartrate up.

56 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:43:08am

Dammit, dentist appointment.
This is way more interesting.
Hope it all comes out all right and he gets his wish for a slightly smaller population.//

57 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:43:38am

re: #30 windsagio

Look up "Childfree" and "Childfree Hardcore" sometime, if you're curious.

No really, don't, unless you want to hear a bunch of dickbags complaining about how people are evil and inconsiderate about even HAVING kids.

There is a childfree hardcore group on Livejournal. Reading their group will make you lose IQ points. It's all complaints about "entitled moos and their crotchdroppings."

58 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:44:03am

re: #57 Alecto

lol see my 55, just linked to them ;)

59 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:44:25am

re: #55 windsagio

A gift for you, if you need to get your heartrate up.

Who the hell's this fucking nutter???

60 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:45:13am

re: #58 windsagio

lol see my 55, just linked to them ;)

Every time they make Stupid Free or SF Drama, my heart grows a bit.

61 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:45:43am

re: #59 Varek Raith

Who the hell's this fucking nutter???

That, my friend, is a whole community of child free nutjobs.

62 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:45:53am

This is as far left an episode as I have yet seen... Goes beyond the SUV dealership bombing...

63 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:45:56am

re: #4 tradewind

hehhh.. someone commented this on the news report:

Danielle Abe
Sep 01, 2010 - 02:28:32 PM
Clearly it's Jon Gosselin.
64 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:45:57am

If you take hostages and threaten people and don't put the gun in your mouth at the end, you're a punk ass. Harsh, yes.

65 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:46:12am

re: #55 windsagio

A gift for you, if you need to get your heartrate up.

Help! I'm going to a family wedding and somebody might expect me to look at their baby! Help!

(My family wedding last month nearly had a catfight between two sisters who both wanted to hold the latest baby. These aren't the Mormons. These are the Evangelical/nothing family.)

66 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:47:05am

re: #44 lawhawk

MSNBC is confirming the identity of the gunman as James Jay Lee, who had a long history of protesting outside the building.

67 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:47:34am

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

ELF on steroids.

PETA times 1000.

68 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:47:37am
69 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:47:38am

Crap, gotta run to work. Will be able to keep up there. See ya'll tonight.

70 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:48:00am

re: #68 veritas777

Hmmm....

71 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:48:09am

re: #65 EmmmieG

haha, its pretty good in my family right now, plenty of damn kids to go around :D

72 darthstar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:48:40am

This is what happens when you let squirrels live too close to Ground Zero.
/

73 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:48:54am

re: #52 dreggas

I think it's really a winger who's doing this to discredit the left.

//

Now see, if I were someone like Pamela Geller, I would have already posted that claim without kidding at all, and I'd continue repeating it forever, no matter what other information comes out.

74 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:49:07am

re: #66 lawhawk

MSNBC is confirming the identity of the gunman as James Jay Lee, who had a long history of protesting outside the building.

While his wife works there? Any word yet on whether they're separated or something?
(These freaks often put their violent plans into action after a major crisis-- domestic, financial, etc.)

75 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:49:10am

re: #68 veritas777

Here we go.

76 darthstar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:49:26am

re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar

If you take hostages and threaten people and don't put the gun in your mouth at the end, you're a punk ass. Harsh, yes.

People like this should do the last part first.

77 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:50:24am

I'm surprised it took that long.

78 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:51:01am

re: #77 Charles

I'm surprised it took that long.

Oh?
Is it a sock?

79 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:51:10am

Wow, that's some really seriously crazy shit. This guy needs to be in an institution, pronto.

80 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:51:10am

re: #68 veritas777
Nice first post. What, took you seven minutes to type it since you registered?

81 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:51:22am

re: #78 Varek Raith

They tend to come in pairs...

82 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:51:39am

That was "seopad," back with a sock puppet again.

83 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:52:17am

re: #82 Charles

That was "seopad," back with a sock puppet again.

Key word, was.

84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:52:21am

re: #81 lawhawk

They tend to come in pairs...

That movie scared the dickens out of me.

85 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:52:48am

re: #81 lawhawk

They tend to come in pairs...

"There were two crabs, they work in pairs"

"I didn't see any crabs sir"

"Don't tell me there weren't two crabs! I went to Annapolis for Christ-sake!"

86 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:52:48am

It's not like his views are out of line with every other non-Tea party supporter in America, really.

He perfectly embodies the leftist point of view and what will become of this country if we continue to let them take over by means of free elections.

/

87 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:52:59am

This nutball has a history with Discovery Channel.

Here's a story of a prior arrest for his antics:

[Link: www.gazette.net...]

The group that Mr. Lee appears to be representing has a discussion blog, if you want to read some more ravings by him and others:

[Link: savetheplanetprotest.yuku.com...]

88 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:53:27am

Good Afternoon Lizards.. Just got home and see this story breaking on TV.
Wow.. A sicko on the lose

89 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:54:32am

This is so sad. It's like every unhinged crazy, left right and center, has decided that this is their year, and they are pulling out the stops.

Is there something in the fucking water?

90 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:54:40am

re: #82 Charles

That was "seopad," back with a sock puppet again.

Here is Sub-Zero... Now... PLAIN Zero!

91 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:54:53am

Well, I just got to see the staging area for the police behind my building... The street is full of police cars. Saw a bomb robot being put together (got a pic of it but it's very blurry). Apparently this lockdown now extends a block further down.

92 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:55:16am

Alright. I'm really leaving now.
/Hoops is here. Har. Worky.

93 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:56:56am

right now, reporter and a guy are talking about left vs right, about how Discovery is actually very "eco friendly, which is liberal" (paraphrased). but they're also talking about Whale Wars and the threats they've received regarding that.

94 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:57:29am

re: #91 MrSilverDragon

Holy cow, sounds like it would be a good plan to stay far away from windows.

95 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:57:51am

re: #93 deranged cat

right now, reporter and a guy are talking about left vs right, about how Discovery is actually very "eco friendly, which is liberal" (paraphrased). but they're also talking about Whale Wars and the threats they've received regarding that.

Eco friendly = liberal?
Huh.

96 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:57:59am

Sometimes, crazy is just crazy and we can leave it at that.

97 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:58:57am

Well the just named the guy on the newsfeed. Wonder if someone from here sent them links?

98 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:59:23am

If you look at his anti-immigration rant with the anchor baby stuff, he sounds like a teabagger. Guess he's an all purpose nut case.

99 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:59:31am

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sometimes, crazy is just crazy and we can leave it at that.

Crazy is what crazy does...

100 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:59:51am

Charles:
You mentioned the stalkers are up to their old trick of making death threats against Lizards. Are you referring to the attempt to terrorize SFZ, or is this a different threat?

101 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:00:08pm

James Jay Lee is his name. they showed his myspace page..

102 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:00:47pm

re: #101 deranged cat

James Jay Lee is his name. they showed his myspace page..

I have a feeling this won't end well for him today...

103 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:01:25pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

commenter said "Whale Wars was a very liberal, forward thinking program that..." didnt catch the last part. but yea.. interesting.

104 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:01:58pm

re: #100 Reginald Perrin

Charles:
You mentioned the stalkers are up to their old trick of making death threats against Lizards. Are you referring to the attempt to terrorize SFZ, or is this a different threat?

That's what I meant.

105 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:02:19pm

re: #103 deranged cat

commenter said "Whale Wars was a very liberal, forward thinking program that..." didnt catch the last part. but yea.. interesting.

I've watched Whale Wars. It does nothing but make them look like morons.

106 Haikugoalie  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:02:36pm

I hope all are safe
this sick fellow needs help with
his anger issues

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:03:14pm

re: #98 allegro

If you look at his anti-immigration rant with the anchor baby stuff, he sounds like a teabagger. Guess he's an all purpose nut case.

Key word: Baby. He hates babies.

108 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:03:18pm

Right on cue, Brietbart's commenters are well... being Brietbart commenters.

mustafamonde · 22 minutes ago
Is anyone taking odds on if this is a Muslim or not…

Well, at the very least, he must be a democrat.

109 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:03:21pm

This guy believes overpopulation is the primary cause for war, and the way to stop wars is to reduce the population through attrition.

Simple solutions from simple minds.

This is what happens when everything is viewed in contrast only, the nuts fall out of the trees.

110 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:04:19pm

#68 veritas777 : Dud is a moonbat!

re: #98 allegro : Dud is a wingnut!


Idiocy from both sides on here.

111 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:04:59pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Dude, that was my point.

112 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:05:03pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sometimes, crazy is just crazy and we can leave it at that.

Yes. Save some grace for the wingnuts as well.

113 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:05:22pm

re: #105 Alecto

I've watched Whale Wars. It does nothing but make them look like morons.

It is just so hi-lariously bad.

114 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:06:57pm

re: #113 webevintage

It is just so hi-lariously bad.

My best friend does call it the best comedy on TV.

115 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:07:02pm

re: #109 b_sharp

This guy believes overpopulation is the primary cause for war, and the way to stop wars is to reduce the population through attrition.

Right -- and that sort of view really is not left wing or right wing. It's illogical and delusional. It may start with vaguely left wing concepts, but it's mutated into pure craziness.

116 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:10:13pm

Here's some pictures of the staging area, behind my building:

Image: IMG00035-20100901-1449.jpg

Image: IMG00037-20100901-1450.jpg

Image: IMG00038-20100901-1450.jpg

You can almost make out the bomb robot behind the center vehicle in the 2nd pic.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:10:48pm

The idea that fewer people=less war is something we can take a look at. I'll be right back with some data.

118 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:10:58pm

re: #114 Alecto

My best friend does call it the best comedy on TV.

Another very earnest, but oh so bad/funny show is Ghost Adventures on the Travel Channel.
The few times I've watched there were some truly (unintentional) ROTFL moments.

119 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:11:11pm

re: #116 MrSilverDragon

Thanks for the pictures. Continue to stay safe!

120 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:12:03pm

re: #116 MrSilverDragon

Here's some pictures of the staging area, behind my building:

Image: IMG00035-20100901-1449.jpg

Image: IMG00037-20100901-1450.jpg

Image: IMG00038-20100901-1450.jpg

You can almost make out the bomb robot behind the center vehicle in the 2nd pic.

I'm trying to Google earth.. Is that 2nd street?

121 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:12:31pm

re: #109 b_sharp

This guy believes overpopulation is the primary cause for war, and the way to stop wars is to reduce the population through attrition.
Simple solutions from simple minds.

This is what happens when everything is viewed in contrast only, the nuts fall out of the trees.


Why do these nutjobs never want to be first?

122 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:12:47pm

re: #120 HoosierHoops

I'm trying to Google earth.. Is that 2nd street?

That's Bonifant.

123 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:14:02pm

So, he's stopping violence by using it. On people who have nothing to do with the problem.

Brilliant. /

124 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:14:04pm

re: #117 EmmmieG

The idea that fewer people=less war is something we can take a look at. I'll be right back with some data.

Oh, that was easy. The Hundred Year's war and the Black Death (which killed 25 million people in Europe) ran concurrently.

Abt. 1340's to 1400's.

So, no.

125 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:14:12pm

re: #121 rwdflynavy

Why do these nutjobs never want to be first?

Sounds like he's trying to be.

126 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:15:52pm

re: #89 Fozzie Bear

This is so sad. It's like every unhinged crazy, left right and center, has decided that this is their year, and they are pulling out the stops.

Is there something in the fucking water?

I don't think his concern is the water, but the other part...

/

127 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:15:53pm

Emmie, I think it's more than just hating babies. It sounds like he's one of those folks who pretty much hates humans altogether.

128 Neutral President  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:16:05pm

re: #117 EmmmieG

The idea that fewer people=less war is something we can take a look at. I'll be right back with some data.

Pretty sure that there were fewer people on the planet than now during every war that has ever happened going back to australopithecines whacking each other over the head with large branches or animal bones.

129 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:18:33pm

I do have to say, compared to other hostage takers and terrorist incidents, this one is refreshing in its originality of motive.

Not that I condone it or anything. . . .

130 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:18:34pm

Police are giving a new brief right now. Police are still negotiating with the suspect. No reports of injuries right now. A day care had to be evacuated to a nearby McDonalds, but no reports of any children missing or injured.

131 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:20:26pm

After the Asian university shooter and this man, I can see the new boogie man is the "Asian Lone Terrorist."

132 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:20:49pm

re: #121 rwdflynavy

Why do these nutjobs never want to be first?

Its part of the psychology, personal responsibility never shows up. Screw ups are your(our) fault, not his.

133 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:21:00pm

re: #115 Charles

Right -- and that sort of view really is not left wing or right wing. It's illogical and delusional. It may start with vaguely left wing concepts, but it's mutated into pure craziness.

He's a nut!!! There's only one thing you gotta do with these sorts of people and that's to nip it in the bud...NIP..IT!!!

/channeling Barney Fife

134 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:21:21pm

re: #130 commadore183

A day care had to be evacuated to a nearby McDonalds, but no reports of any children missing or injured.

The kids are no doubt saying, "cool! can we get this guy here every day?"

135 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:22:08pm

re: #133 talon_262

Barney Fife always gets an upding.

136 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:22:31pm

re: #106 Haikugoalie

I hope all are safe
this sick fellow needs help with
his anger issues

Unfortunately anger is one of the last respectable addictions. So too many people, both suffering from anger and exposed to it, don't believe help is needed.

137 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:23:04pm

re: #131 Alecto

one reason im following this is because i'm asian, and i hate it when asians do stupid things. i am not looking forward to being a boogie man :P

138 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:25:59pm

re: #137 deranged cat

one reason im following this is because i'm asian, and i hate it when asians do stupid things. i am not looking forward to being a boogie man :P

Why would that make you the boogieman? That'd be like if some muslims did something violent, and then folks equated them to ALL muslims. . .

Oh.

139 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:27:47pm

MSNBC reporting that this guy took out full page ads in 2008 to get people to protest Discovery. I want to guess he's wealthy.

So, the new boogie man - Asian Trust Fund Lone Terrorists. Sorry for my mistake.

140 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:28:27pm

re: #127 Yashmak

Emmie, I think it's more than just hating babies. It sounds like he's one of those folks who pretty much hates humans altogether.

He sees the world as being damaged beyond what is natural, and blames humans for that damage. What he doesn't understand is catastrophe is cyclical and necessary for the grand evolutionary experiment. Nothing we can do to it will destroy the Earth, it will always recover. What we can do is destroy ourselves, which is what we are really good at and are doing on a scale never seen before in human history.

If he wants humans to disappear, all he needs to do is wait.

We'll either destroy ourselves, or we'll smarten up. In either case, the Earth and its biosphere will recover over geologic time and plod on.

141 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:31:46pm

I'm perfectly willing to say that there are some people in the radical 'left', in ELF and the rest, who push violent ecoterrorism, and I feel they bear some responsibility for this kind of crap.

However, those groups do not find any home in the mainstream left. Nobody speaks up for them, nobody defends their insane actions. They are on the outside, looking in.

142 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:32:09pm

After mulling over this guy's demands, I wonder if the Duggars didn't push him over the edge, and the other Discovery Network's supersized families.

143 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:32:42pm

re: #121 rwdflynavy

Why do these nutjobs never want to be first?

You know, it occurs to me he HAS volunteered to be first. . .from a certain point of view.

144 Batman  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:32:55pm

No one thinks it's weird that he thinks Discovery Channel is the solution to all our problems?

145 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:33:10pm

re: #139 Alecto

MSNBC reporting that this guy took out full page ads in 2008 to get people to protest Discovery. I want to guess he's wealthy.

So, the new boogie man - Asian Trust Fund Lone Terrorists. Sorry for my mistake.

That was mentioned in the story from his prior arrest that I linked upthread -

Money-throwing protester gets probation, fine

Lee was arrested with about $21,000 in cash in the duffel bag he had with him at the protest, Meng testified. Johnson told Lee that he would get his bag of money back.

Lee said he had sold several inherited properties in Maui, Hawaii, where he lived prior to moving to San Diego, to pay for the protest, including about $30,000 for full-page advertisements in newspapers. Lee said he had one property left, worth about $200,000, and had plans to give it away in a ‘‘save the planet contest.”

146 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:34:00pm

re: #140 b_sharp


We'll either destroy ourselves, or we'll smarten up. In either case, the Earth and its biosphere will recover over geologic time and plod on.

"Men go and come, but earth abides."
Ecclesiastes 1:4

147 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:34:02pm

re: #55 windsagio

A gift for you, if you need to get your heartrate up.

That site was full of morons actually using the term "breeders". What a bunch of hateful assholes. How do they think they got into this world?

148 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:35:50pm

I have the feeling that Mr. Lee might find himself on a Discovery Network program in the not-too-distant future.

Not on Discovery, Animal Planet, or Science channels, but on History Channel (aka the Nutcase Documentary Network).

149 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:37:25pm

re: #147 tnguitarist

That site was full of morons actually using the term "breeders". What a bunch of hateful assholes. How do they think they got into this world?

It's really funny to me what a basic misunderstanding of biology these people have.

99.9% of all species that ever lived have gone extinct. This ratio was set long before humans ever entered the picture. The earth, nature, does not care about the survival of species, ecosystems, or diversity. It is just the expression of a bunch of algorithms. The organisms that caused the atmospheric oxygen concentration to shoot up killed off nearly all the other organisms on earth; that was perfectly natural.

They don't get biology but think they do. I hate people like that.

150 Batman  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:37:50pm

re: #148 RadicalModerate

I have the feeling that Mr. Lee might find himself on a Discovery Network program in the not-too-distant future.

Not on Discovery, Animal Planet, or Science channels, but on History Channel (aka the Nutcase Documentary Network).

The aliens set him up, and Nostradamus totally predicted this.

151 sergeant major  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:38:46pm

First things first I wouldn't worry about what someone is going to label him.... I just hope that someone isn't hurt or worse.....

152 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:40:17pm

re: #141 Obdicut

I'm perfectly willing to say that there are some people in the radical 'left', in ELF and the rest, who push violent ecoterrorism, and I feel they bear some responsibility for this kind of crap.

However, those groups do not find any home in the mainstream left. Nobody speaks up for them, nobody defends their insane actions. They are on the outside, looking in.

Plenty of mainstream folks push zero population growth and the evils of mans footprint on the earth. Anyone who deals with political rhetoric must deal with the possibility that someone less balanced than they are will take their words and run in a very dark direction with them.

Comparing which political identity is more or less pure in its actions or intent is a fools game. Insanity is insanity no matter who links to its facebook page.

153 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:41:00pm

re: #40 Charles

Yep, this is a case where a crazy person has taken some left wing ideas and gone all the way nuts with them. The key word is "nuts" here.

But I can totally predict the stupid narrative that's now going to start pouring out of the wingnut blogs and media. They won't be able to stop gloating.

A right to lifer he's not.
/

154 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:41:02pm

When these things happen, the media goes into a non-stop bullshit mode. Reporters feel like they have to fill up every second with stream of consciousness talking about everything that jumps into their heads.

I just heard a local reporter describe this guy's list of demands: "he's written quite a bit about this subject, in rather strong language that some may find confusing."

Oh for Pete's sake! Just say it! He's nuts. Obviously.

155 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:41:23pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

A right to lifer he's not.
/

And a pro-choice person he's not, either.

156 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:41:32pm

re: #147 tnguitarist

That site was full of morons actually using the term "breeders". What a bunch of hateful assholes. How do they think they got into this world?


I'm a breeder. A very successful breeder. :-p

157 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:41:47pm

re: #149 Obdicut

It's really funny to me what a basic misunderstanding of biology these people have.

99.9% of all species that ever lived have gone extinct. This ratio was set long before humans ever entered the picture. The earth, nature, does not care about the survival of species, ecosystems, or diversity. It is just the expression of a bunch of algorithms. The organisms that caused the atmospheric oxygen concentration to shoot up killed off nearly all the other organisms on earth; that was perfectly natural.

They don't get biology but think they do. I hate people like that.

As soon as you have self replicating molecules you have endless iterative algorithmic pathways to complexity.

Large die offs are necessary to reboot the system on occasion.

158 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:42:24pm

re: #152 DaddyG

True. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between the fringe environmentalists, who are really, really, really truly fringe, and the violent anti-abortion activists, who have people like Bill O'Reilly pushing violent action against abortion doctors.

159 HistoryInAction  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:42:41pm

Man, this guy sounds like he's watched Zardoz one too many times... which is a highly amusing movie if you've got some drinks and too much free time on your hands! ;)

160 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:43:19pm

re: #159 HistoryInAction

Man, this guy sounds like he's watched Zardoz one too many times... which is a highly amusing movie if you've got some drinks and too much free time on your hands! ;)

Beethoven's 7th makes a nice soundtrack however.

161 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:43:33pm

re: #155 Charles

And a pro-choice person he's not, either.

There is that.

162 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:43:37pm

re: #154 Charles

When these things happen, the media goes into a non-stop bullshit mode. Reporters feel like they have to fill up every second with stream of consciousness talking about everything that jumps into their heads.

I just heard a local reporter describe this guys list of demands: "he's written quite a bit about this subject, in rather strong language that some may find confusing."

Oh for Pete's sake! Just say it! He's nuts. Obviously.

Saying he's nuts kills the news scoop. They have to drag it on as long as their wallets tell them to.

163 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:44:00pm

re: #159 HistoryInAction

Come with us to second level.

164 changomo  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:44:02pm

So this is sort of off topic, but I thought I would post here.

I've been following LGF now for nearly 8 years and have found it a source of enjoyment. One thing that I find is it does not neatly fall into say "Left Wing vs former Right wing"

I think that it focuses on delusional extremism. This exists in every political circle.

I felt if first primarily focused on Muslim/leftist extremism - and now focuses on right wing extremism. I agree with Charles I would say about 95% of the time.

165 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:44:53pm

re: #162 b_sharp

Saying he's nuts kills the news scoop. They have to drag it on as long as their wallets tell them to.


Blaming one of the mainstream political parties through association helps keep the conversation going too. Not that its ethical or reasonable- but it does sell papers, views, clicks...

166 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:45:19pm

I just hope they don't call this guy the population bomber.

167 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:45:58pm

re: #164 changomo
As a Mormon who is in the profession of Change Management I find myself attracted to your nic.

168 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:46:04pm

re: #152 DaddyG

...and plenty of people on the "mainstream left" sympathize with middle-east Suicide Bombers and Somalian pirates....

169 abolitionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:46:27pm

re: #159 HistoryInAction

Man, this guy sounds like he's watched Zardoz one too many times... which is a highly amusing movie if you've got some drinks and too much free time on your hands! ;)

Guns, good; penis, bad.

170 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:46:41pm

re: #166 Spare O'Lake

I just hope they don't call this guy the population bomber.


I hope they are soon calling him a failed terrorist in custody.

171 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:48:53pm

re: #168 reuven

...and plenty of people on the "mainstream left" sympathize with middle-east Suicide Bombers and Somalian pirates...

Trying to define mainstream is a pretty slippery slope in and of itself. I would not consider many of the conservative pundits mainstream GOP any more than I would consider Janine Garafolo mainstream Dem.

If there were one thing I'd want here at LGF it would be a little more self examination by supporters of both the center-left and center-right. Anti-idolitarianism should be bipartisan.

172 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:50:02pm

Eek!! This is not a joke:

Discovery Hostage Taker & JOHN HOLDREN (Obama Czar) Both Followed "Thomas Malthus"

A search of John Holdren's book, ECOSCIENCE: POPULATION, & RESOURCES & ENVIRONMENT reveals that Holdren cited "Thomas Malthus" writings about over population on these page: 379, 731, 741, 742, 743, 791, 792, 797, 800, 801, 878, 889, 898, 950, 1017.

The Discovery Channel Hostage Taker apparently cited and follows the views of "Thomas Malthus" as found here in this news link: (blah blah)

Are Holdren and Lee soul mates on overpopulation?

Looks like a nutball death-match shaping up in the media. My guess is the Freeper poster had never heard of Malthus before today and has no idea how widely studied Malthusian ideas havw been the last couple of centuries.

173 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:51:53pm

re: #154 Charles

I found what Mark David Chapman had to say about The Catcher In The Rye confusing as well.

174 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:52:19pm

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the Montgomery County Police frequency feed online.

[Link: www.rollcallradio.com...]

175 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:53:11pm

re: #171 DaddyG

Do you think Bill O'Reilly isn't mainstream GOP?

I'm not sure who you mean by 'pundits'.

176 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:57:34pm

re: #172 Shiplord Kirel

Eek!! This is not a joke:

Discovery Hostage Taker & JOHN HOLDREN (Obama Czar) Both Followed "Thomas Malthus"

Looks like a nutball death-match shaping up in the media. My guess is the Freeper poster had never heard of Malthus before today and has no idea how widely studied Malthusian ideas havw been the last couple of centuries.

Yowza. Wingnuts are like elephants -- they never forget a smear.

This particular smear against John Holdren was at least partly originated by "zombie."

177 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:59:10pm

re: #159 HistoryInAction

Man, this guy sounds like he's watched Zardoz one too many times... which is a highly amusing movie if you've got some drinks and too much free time on your hands! ;)

HA!
That was on FOX a week or so ago.
So bad it is hilarious.....

178 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:59:22pm

The guy is basically calling for the dismantling of civilization. Clearly, he is an off the charts leftist/eco nut to the point of insanity. He also seems like a pretty ardent racist. "Immigration pollution"? That sounds like it was ripped directly off of Stormfront.

Meh, I give him until tomorrow morning before he shoots himself. I'm actually glad this guy is an eco-nut leftist... they can never really pull these things off. If this was some deranged teabagger who'd gone insane in the opposite ideological direction, the building would already be smoldering rubble and 100 children would be dead.

179 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:01:37pm

re: #176 Charles

Yeah, I'm betting it does a special post on this. On the other hand like Ted Kacynski this guy leans more left than right, but at some point of sociopathic paranoia left and right just don't matter anymore, and this guy's far beyond that edge.

180 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:01:57pm

re: #178 Nick Schroeder

Meh, I give him until tomorrow morning before he shoots himself. I'm actually glad this guy is an eco-nut leftist... they can never really pull these things off. If this was some deranged teabagger who'd gone insane in the opposite ideological direction, the building would already be smoldering rubble and 100 children would be dead.

I hope it's over long before tomorrow... I really would like to go home tonight. And, most importantly, I hope it comes to a peaceful conclusion.

181 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:03:55pm

Presser with the Montgomery County Police right now. Said they have nothing new to add since the last briefing. Still trying to talk to the suspect. That's about it officially. They did say that around 5PM they'll have another presser, if not sooner if new details emerge or new information is relevant.

182 The Great Ralph  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:04:44pm

re: #142 Alecto

After mulling over this guy's demands, I wonder if the Duggars didn't push him over the edge, and the other Discovery Network's supersized families.

Where's Dog when you need him?

183 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:10:44pm

re: #182 The Great Ralph

Where's Dog when you need him?

He'd only come if they invaded A&E

184 alexknyc  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:18:02pm

re: #100 Reginald Perrin

Charles:
You mentioned the stalkers are up to their old trick of making death threats against Lizards. Are you referring to the attempt to terrorize SFZ, or is this a different threat?

Someone is threatening SFZ?

What did I miss?

185 Rakkasan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:23:00pm

Just remember this, all of you... there is no difference - none - between the crazies on the right or the left. The personalities are the same, the knee-jerk conspiracy theorizing is the same, the inability to handle any challenge to their world view is the same, and if you scratch the surface a little, you're almost guaranteed to find Jew/Israel hatred. Whether they end up on the right or the left is usually simply a matter of who got to them first. Whether you like it or not, whether you identify left or right, you have your own crazy contingent, and the quickest way to lose all credibility with a lot of moderates is to deny it. Deal with it, don't excuse it, don't "yeah, but."

186 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:23:15pm

Moonbat?

Lee said he began his crusade to save the planet after being laid off from his job in San Diego and reading ‘‘Ishmael,” a novel by Daniel Quinn about a gorilla that tells a man what it is like to live in captivity in a world where humans exploit natural resources.

Lee said he then felt an ‘‘awakening,” watched former Vice President Al Gore’s documentary ‘‘An Inconvenient Truth,” and decided he had been doing too little to protect the environment.

Moonbat!

187 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:28:54pm

re: #182 The Great Ralph

Where's Dog when you need him?

Obviously barking up the wrong tree.

188 Alecto  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:41:01pm

Video of Lee throwing money into the air in 2008

Youtube Video
189 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:50:13pm

re: #186 Cato the Elder

A generic one.

190 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:55:17pm

The Holdren-Lee pseudo-connection via Thomas Malthus is spreading far and wide across the wingnut empire. I expect one of their media lords, possibly Levin or another late in the day second teamer, to pick it up anytime.
It is amazing how many people had never heard of Malthus before today.

191 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:57:31pm

re: #190 Shiplord Kirel

I

t is amazing how many people had never heard of Malthus before today.

Some 50% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth. Therefore, ignorance of Malthus is hardly surprising.

192 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:57:52pm

It appears that people are leaving the Discovery building now, quite possibly the hostages.

193 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 1:59:06pm

Another police briefing on now.

194 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:00:15pm

Suspect shot by police about 10 minutes ago. Apparently the device may have gone off after that. The hostages are now safe and out of the building.

195 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:00:21pm

Police shot the gunman.

196 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:01:04pm

Other suspected devices haven't been rendered "safe" by the police. Haven't heard about the condition of the suspect.

197 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:02:34pm

Police said that Lee held three people hostage when he entered the building. Those three people are now safe and Lee is in custody. No word on his condition yet.

198 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:02:40pm

He was shot and is now in custody. When he fell, the "device" went off. There were a few pops. No more detail.

199 steve_davis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:02:43pm

It's just so weird when left-wingers take hostages: "I want a million dollars in unmarked bills and a vehicle left outside the back door. The car must be environmentally friendly and include back-seat DVD capability with a random package of kid-friendly Disney movies to be made using material that does not contribute to the damaging of the rain forests."

200 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:05:06pm

Lee hasn't been removed from the building because there are still several suspicious devices that haven't been rendered safe. He's going to be there for a while, I guess.

201 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:06:54pm

re: #185 Rakkasan

Just remember this, all of you... there is no difference - none - between the crazies on the right or the left. The personalities are the same, the knee-jerk conspiracy theorizing is the same, the inability to handle any challenge to their world view is the same, and if you scratch the surface a little, you're almost guaranteed to find Jew/Israel hatred. Whether they end up on the right or the left is usually simply a matter of who got to them first. Whether you like it or not, whether you identify left or right, you have your own crazy contingent, and the quickest way to lose all credibility with a lot of moderates is to deny it. Deal with it, don't excuse it, don't "yeah, but."

It is mistaken to view worldviews as "right" and "left", as though they are points on a line. Rather, the continuum of political viewpoints are more aptly described as being located along a circle, with the extremists of the "right" and the extremists of the "left" being located directly adjacent to one another, and a true moderate (not true as in correct but true as in absolute, like "true north") being on the point of the circle directly opposite the extremes of "right" and "left".

202 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:07:25pm

re: #158 Obdicut

True. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between the fringe environmentalists, who are really, really, really truly fringe, and the violent anti-abortion activists, who have people like Bill O'Reilly pushing violent action against abortion doctors.

yeah, well, be glad. down here in the Netherlands there was plenty sympathy for death threats to mink breeders (for the fur, obviously) from the left wing some time ago. and not just extremists, either; most environmentalists of some sort pretty much thought they had it coming.
things turned around a little bit when some nut-cases dug up the deceased mother of a mink breeder they had been extensively targeting but even then the outrage was nowhere to be found, really.

point is, nuts exist on both sides. just as someone else up-thread posted rather cynically (can't find who atm): either the leftist ones are a bit less violently inclined, or when they are (we've actually had a few down here) they tend to be completely and blindingly incompetent (even more so than the right-wingers).

however, the way in which certain people here are denouncing claims that this is a moonbat is a bit of a no true Scotsman argument to me; and especially for those who like to point out right wing extremism it's a bit hypocritical - it's the same argument you like to denounce as little more than a logical fallacy when "the other guy" does it.
if you dislike the argument so much, don't lower yourself to its level, people.

203 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:10:00pm

re: #200 commadore183

Just my opinion, but he should not be moved until the onset of rigor mortis renders it safe for our brave first responders to approach the perp.

204 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:10:13pm

When that kook flew an airplane into a building in Las Vegas, I said he was a loon who couldn't be classified as right or left wing, and I'm saying the same thing about this guy. His "manifesto" isn't like any kind of left wing ideology, it's just crazy.

And since when is environmentalism considered left wing, anyway?

205 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:10:20pm

re: #201 sliv_the_eli

No, that's just a different way to look at them inaccurately.

206 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:10:28pm

re: #202 ThomasLite

There aren't two sides.

207 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:12:44pm

re: #205 Obdicut

In what way do you consider that an inaccurate way to look at them?

208 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:13:02pm
Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

lol?

Absent an actual hostage situation, I'd call this a hoax.

But as it stands, thanks "Lee", for giving Limbaugh, et al yet more reasons to demonize evolution, environmentalism, AND overpopuation concerns. Fuckhead.

209 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:15:24pm

re: #201 sliv_the_eli

It is mistaken to view worldviews as "right" and "left", as though they are points on a line. Rather, the continuum of political viewpoints are more aptly described as being located along a circle, with the extremists of the "right" and the extremists of the "left" being located directly adjacent to one another, and a true moderate (not true as in correct but true as in absolute, like "true north") being on the point of the circle directly opposite the extremes of "right" and "left".

sorry, no. it's a convenient point of view for one who considers himself a moderate, and I certainly agree imposing different ideologies on a single timeline will never do to accurately describe their relation to each other, but in that same sense, however much they are the same in that they seem like nonsense to more rational thinking people, many extremes vary so much from each other that putting them directly adjacent is just silly.

why, even traditionally "leftist" craziness cannot be so easily categorized: a radical pacifist need not have much in common with a radical environmentalist, while both of which can, traditionally, be as much seen as the enemy by say, a radical communist (or a very radical socialist, which in the end will be just the same, with a different name).

same for radical religious right vs. radical small government right; bedfellows at the moment but really don't have much in common.

those five examples can all easily find reasons to want to kill the other four (okay, it might get problematic for the radical pacifist but you get my gist ;) )

therefore, however interesting your circle idea might be, I don't think it makes much sense.

210 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:17:37pm

re: #207 sliv_the_eli

In what way do you consider that an inaccurate way to look at them?

In pretty much every way. "Left" and "right" are mainly self-descriptive, and otherwise useless. Any given position can be arrived at-- without extremism-- from either the purported 'left' or 'right' position. Any ideology can be called 'left' or 'right' and justified. The only meaning they have is as self-descriptors.

Even if you do decide to believe that 'left' and 'right' describe actual movement on some sort of scale, circle, whatever, boiling down all positions to just 'left' and 'right'-- not separating out, say, foreign policy from domestic, economic from social, etc. etc.-- is ridiculous.

Furthermore, you are failing to distinguish between people who are extremist in their views, and people who are extremist in their methods.

211 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:23:11pm

re: #209 ThomasLite

Heel goed, jonge!

212 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:23:32pm

Unconfirmed reports said that Lee has died from his wounds.

213 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:25:29pm

re: #212 commadore183

I should have added that NBC was told that by police officials.

214 Intenzity  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:25:32pm

His page has now been taken down, however through the magic of google you can still read a version from Sep 1, 2010 18:38:37 GMT (today):

[Link: savetheplanetprotest.com...]

Now, first off...this guy is stark raving foaming at the mouth cat crap insane. Straight up.

But...he is kinda right. In the big picture only.

How many episodes of "Myth Busters" feature .50 calibre rifles? How many times are they shooting, exploding, and using ballistics. Lots.

And is it really a set of "demands"? Because he seems to make some very polite suggestions - Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order.

See, why can't all insane raving hostage taking lunatics be this thoughtful and issue a set of helpful suggestions along with their of demands. Seems only polite.

215 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:25:45pm

re: #209 ThomasLite

If one thinks more along the lines of overall political philosophy, the circle paradigm makes more sense than if it is discussed in terms of one's views on specific issues. Thus, a "radical pacifist" refers only to a person's view on a single group of issues, related to the use of force by nations, but says nothing about that person's overall view on the role of state vs. individual, the structure of a political entity or laissez-faire capitalism vs. centrally planned economies. In other words, such a person may be a monarchist or communist; he or she simply does not believe in war as a solution to any problem. The political philosophies of the extreme right or extreme left, however, are very nearly identical in terms of their elevation of the central authority over the individual and their fundamental rejection of any opposition to the central power. The circle paradigm is not a way of understanding the concept of radical vs. non-radical, but of overall political philosophies that we facilely refer to as "right" and "left". (On a related note, as my political philosophy professor once pointed out, when viewed in historical context, what we generally call a "conservative" is actually a philosophical liberal, but not nearly as liberal as what we call a "liberal").

216 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:30:11pm

re: #215 sliv_the_eli

One problem with your 'circle' is that someone can also be a radical anarchist, anti-authoritarian in the extreme. And that is also a position that can be arrived at from the 'right' or the 'left'.

Or someone can be a radical small-group believer, who thinks that groups of humans beyond a certain size can't sustain freedom, and so we need to limit our political organizations to certain size.

You are only describing an axis of authoritarian vs. personal liberty, and you are somehow leaving off 'extreme personal liberty' from that scale.

217 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:31:55pm

re: #204 Charles

And since when is environmentalism considered left wing, anyway?

that might be more my european interpretation; I'll certainly agree it's more complex than that.
as I put it in my #209 there's no simple way to align someone left or right and deduce their entire world view from that, but either you'll have to drop "left" and "right" entirely (which is not common practice here, many a post is made to call out "right wing" nutjobs every day, so left and right as a distinction is certainly made) or you'll have to take some less absolute interpretation where you align ideas as generally left or right leaning.
social security, government medical care and so forth are generally seen as left-leaning ideas, but what about Romney's (that was him, right? ) Massachusetts health care reform? wouldn't exactly call him a leftwinger. still, the general association stands.

now while moderate, sensible environmentalism is (or should be) a wholly bipartisan thing, it can certainly be said that generally, the more extreme the (less sensible) environmentalism gets, the more "leftist" it's proponents tend to be on other subjects.

never mind the fact that 'guvmint' money can only be spent once, be it on social security or further-reaching environmentalist ideas, it's proponents often seem to be the same.
of course now I am looking mostly at the raving, frothing-at-the-mouth activists without direct political involvement (you know, people chaining themselves to trees one day then a few days later trying to explain to me why communism wasn't a bad idea, suchlike loons), and I'm disregarding a lot of politicians, who seem to have their heads on a bit more straight.

however, this dude for example wasn't a politician, he was a frothing-at-the-mouth loon. same for the dude shooting an abortion doctor (though I'm slightly worried by how little his actions were denounced, that doesn't make a politician directly guilty in my view - responsibility falls on the perpetrator first and foremost): those sorts of people, fringe idiots, are the danger zone.

and yes, in the fringe danger zone, environmentalism is a near-monopolized left-wing topic.

218 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:33:02pm

and once again my caveat emptor: european idiotism != american idiotism so your results may vary ;)

219 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:35:45pm

re: #217 ThomasLite

I think part of the problem is it's difficult for Europeans to understand just how mainstream anti-abortion violence is. Bill O'Reilly referred to the abortion doctor who was murdered as "Tiller the Baby Killer".

220 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:36:02pm

I think he was a radical Squirrelist, myself.

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

221 M. Dubious  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:38:35pm

re: #220 Charles

Well, squirrely, for sure.

222 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:38:44pm

re: #220 Charles

Of course, in order to save all those animals, you'd have to stop evolution.

And you can't.

I hope this guy gets called a Squirrelist. He deserves mockery.

223 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:38:52pm

re: #215 sliv_the_eli

If one thinks more along the lines of overall political philosophy, the circle paradigm makes more sense than if it is discussed in terms of one's views on specific issues. Thus, a "radical pacifist" refers only to a person's view on a single group of issues, related to the use of force by nations, but says nothing about that person's overall view on the role of state vs. individual, the structure of a political entity or laissez-faire capitalism vs. centrally planned economies. In other words, such a person may be a monarchist or communist; he or she simply does not believe in war as a solution to any problem. The political philosophies of the extreme right or extreme left, however, are very nearly identical in terms of their elevation of the central authority over the individual and their fundamental rejection of any opposition to the central power. The circle paradigm is not a way of understanding the concept of radical vs. non-radical, but of overall political philosophies that we facilely refer to as "right" and "left". (On a related note, as my political philosophy professor once pointed out, when viewed in historical context, what we generally call a "conservative" is actually a philosophical liberal, but not nearly as liberal as what we call a "liberal").

I understand the general idea but not just monarchist or communists can be pacifists, what about an anarchist (who would certainly despise most of either a monarchists or of a communists ideology on that subject)? or something else entirely? there's more than two ways of getting there and your circle is nothing else but a left v. right single-axis system we all know so well, but applied to separated subjects (improvement there, I'll grant you) and bent end to end. its just not that simple. there's more than two ways to think and your circle just doesnt solve that in any way.
it's a nice idea, I just don't think it actually works.

it might be helpful as a tool to get some nutcase out of general left v right thinking the same way we teach kids in high school a rather silly twodimensional molecular model as a learning tool though.

224 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:39:35pm

Note this point from his "manifesto" -- sounds like quite a right winger here:

5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)

"Anchor baby" is not exactly a typical left wing term.

225 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:43:11pm

Police kill Discovery building gunman

SILVER SPRING, Md. — Police shot and killed a gunman who held three hostages for several hours Wednesday at the Discovery Communications building in Silver Spring, Md., authorities said. They said the hostages were safe.

At least one explosive device went off when he was shot, and other explosive devices could still be in the building in Montgomery County in suburban Washington, D.C., they said. It was not clear whether there was any damage.

Montgomery County police Chief Thomas Manger said no one was believed to have been injured beyond the gunman, whose condition he said was unknown. Other law enforcement authorities told NBC News that the gunman was dead.

The building in the close-in suburb of Washington was safely evacuated, including the Discovery Kids Place day care center, police said.

Law enforcement authorities told NBC News they believed the man was James Jay Lee or James Jae Lee, 43, a longtime protester at the building who was sentenced to six months of supervised probation for disorderly conduct in March 2008.

226 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:44:44pm

All these lunatics popping up lately sure makes me wish the Tralfamadorians would hurry up and send me the replacement parts for my dang escape pod already! I've gotta get out of here before the Normals take over completely.

227 rakkasan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:47:58pm

re: #201 sliv_the_eli

It is mistaken to view worldviews as "right" and "left", as though they are points on a line. Rather, the continuum of political viewpoints are more aptly described as being located along a circle, with the extremists of the "right" and the extremists of the "left" being located directly adjacent to one another, and a true moderate (not true as in correct but true as in absolute, like "true north") being on the point of the circle directly opposite the extremes of "right" and "left".

I never have thought of them as points on a line. My feeling is that extremists often go so far one way or another that they often meet their counterparts going around the other way, so I guess that's circular (although the world isn't as neat as all that). But leaving that alone, I hold to my point that the personalities are the same, and the approach to the world is the same. There are only friends and enemies, though for extremists it's mostly enemies, small wonder. And, oh yeah, the feeling that they can save the world by one really insane act.

We could probably go on this topic for a while, but I'd like to put in a plea here for the sane people who sometimes get a little too pissed-off and crank the rhetoric up to eleven. We have a responsibility to think about what we say and how we say it, especially after things like this. I'm going to strongly urge my conservative friends not to lay this off on the average liberal who never had thoughts like Mr. Lee in their entire lives. Just as I got in the faces of liberal friends who wanted to tie Tim McVeigh and the the Austin airplane guy to all conservatives. Face it; there will always be a few people who just cannot handle politics or religion or anything not neatly tied up with a ribbon. The amazing thing is that, in this political climate, we don't have occurrences like this on a daily basis.

228 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:54:18pm

The police said that Lee began brandishing a handgun at one of the hostages and the police reacted, killing Lee and freeing the three male hostages. Lee had came in with an explosive device strapped to himself, as well as a backpack that contained more devices. The police are still working on rendering the devices safe. Lee's body is still there, I assume.

229 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:55:03pm

re: #228 commadore183

Fuck him for forcing a cop to kill him. I hope that cop gets the support and respect he deserves for having the moral courage to take that shot.

230 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:57:50pm

re: #229 Obdicut

Fuck him for forcing a cop to kill him. I hope that cop gets the support and respect he deserves for having the moral courage to take that shot.

At least it's over, and the hostages got out without any physical wounds. Now I get to wait while they make sure any more of the "devices" are rendered safe, which means staging central is going to be there for a while, which means I'm not leaving any time soon as they've blocked off the garage.

231 WrongWingnut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:04:33pm

jst hd t pnt t tht y'v spnt th lst tw wks fndng xmpls f nt-slmst rcsm nd ttckng th "Rght" fr t. Nw smn ss lftst dl t cndct vlnc nd ts th "Rght"s flt f thy s th sm flwd lgc s y dd. Mr. LGF, y hv ffclly bcm wngnt.

232 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:04:53pm

re: #220 Charles

I think he was a radical Squirrelist, myself.

hehe, it reads like a parody indeed. I opened up LGF, saw the topic, and thought "W T F, that's gotta be some sick joke". took me several moments to grasp it's serious. really if he hadn't gone ahead with this I'd've invoked poe's law on it all.

however given what he's done, I think we can all agree there was at least one nut who actually thinks this way.

and as for that nut, who, I'll conceed and totally agree right away, has little to do with any kind of mainstream political opinion, be it right or left wing, are you really, really going to deny he's got a mostly extreme-left streak?

please, it's no better than what you call out certain right-wingers for at times.

everyone understands he's got nothing to do with sensible "left leaning" views - just the less sensible ones.

re: #224 Charles

Note this point from his "manifesto" -- sounds like quite a right-winger here:

riight. well while for american standards it might be new, he wouldn't be the first racist socialist I hear spouting gibberish. seriously, lay off of this aproach, denounce the guy as a nut any sane progressive should (and will, by the way, I'm sure) be either ashamed or disgusted of and don't lower yourself to the childish no true scotsman.
your site, yours to post as you please of course but I think you're not exactly doing yourself a favor this way.
rakkasan puts it very very well in his #227.

re: #219 Obdicut

I think part of the problem is it's difficult for Europeans to understand just how mainstream anti-abortion violence is. Bill O'Reilly referred to the abortion doctor who was murdered as "Tiller the Baby Killer".

yeah, I get that, sort of. and really I should NOT have taken up such a sensitive example, I'm afraid.

now we do have a little experience with disgusting *racist* rhetoric down here (you'll probably have heard of mr Wilders by now, he's coming over to gellers little ragefest in 10 days) and while a lot of politicians call him out over many of his statements some of our most progressive, left-leaning politicians have at more than one occasion defended his right to say very silly things (pretty much exactly how Femke Halsema of groenlinks (green-left, literaly, and they live up to it) put it once) and I think that's an important thing to do to keep debate civil. it certainly took the edge of his rhetoric (he suddenly didn't exactly have a "leftist elite" to rage against, as he so likes to do) and was also just plainly the right thing to do.
it sort of worries me how it seems as if in the US, in the last , say, ten years? it's become perfectly acceptable to counter an ignorant, bigoted statement just by calling it that instead of presenting a reasoned argument.
in my opinion that just encourages trench-digging (no true scotsmans, calling each other the Antichrist and so forth) instead of promoting reasoned grown up discussion.

"tiller the baby killer" is a nasty little nickname, and it does indeed inflame idiots to do dangerous things but in the end that idiot is responsible for his actions, not a TV host. sorry, I can't accept that kind of blame-calling.
also, nicknames like would in my view just invite, say, a Jon Stewart to roast O'Really into the ground all the while presenting a more reasonable view (made all the more easy by the retarded way o'Really started the "debate").
also you have to keep in mind that calling out a view as unacceptable (and silencing it thusly), however true it might be, will give it's remaining believers the idea they're being "oppressed" (favorite term these days, it seems) and make them entrench themselves in bigotry all the more. it's just not helping.

but once again, that's my outside view. :)

233 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:06:34pm

re: #231 WrongWingnut

You're named rather well.

This guy is like the guy who flew his plane into a building in Las Vegas. Who was also just crazy, even though he was spouting some pseudo-libertarian crap.

234 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:07:31pm

re: #232 ThomasLite

You've totally got my position wrong. I'm pretty far from trying to call this guy "right wing" or "left wing". He was crazy. Period.

235 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:07:33pm

re: #231 WrongWingnut

Crazy holds no political bias. That's the reality of the world.

236 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:07:53pm

re: #232 ThomasLite

I'm not saying O'Reilly is responsible. I'm saying that calling people names that imply they kill children creates more of an environment where violence against them is acceptable than saying that oil companies pollute does.

237 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:08:03pm

re: #231 WrongWingnut

I just had to point out that you've spent the last two weeks finding examples of anti-Islamist racism and attacking the "Right" for it. Now someone uses a leftist ideal to conduct violence and its the "Right"s fault if they use the same flawed logic as you did. Mr. LGF, you have officially become a wingnut.

and a hearty downding for that. be civil about it, for a start. also you might want to keep in mind the "attacks" for anti-Islamic discrimination (Islam is a religion, not a race, when will you learn...) were rather justified...
also I can't remember Charles condemning all moderate conservatives over that, which is what Geller&co are undoubtedly doing now

238 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:10:38pm

Apparently Lee deposited two additional boxes/backpacks that are probably filled with explosives/explosive devices. That area won't be cleared for a while I assume.

239 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:10:43pm

The whole point of being crazy is that you cannot take in realty and process it correctly.

The Visalia shooter was convinced the LDS church was out to get him. I'm not sure what his evidence was, because it's just plain nuts, but somehow he took in the same stimulus through his senses as other people and his brain failed to make the right connections.

Same thing with this guy. I might point out that psychologically normal human beings are hard wired to like baby things. (This is why we have zooborns.) He found them disgusting.

Somehow, he took in the same stimuluses we did, and came to the conclusion that this was necessary and right. His brain didn't make the right connections. He couldn't process reality and figure out what was actually happening.

Crazy.

240 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:12:16pm

re: #210 Obdicut

Fair enough critique, although I would disagree that "left" and "right" are self-descriptive. They are also ways of describing the "other". As an academic matter, however, they are convenient descriptives that provide a contextual structure for understanding general approaches of a particular world-view. In that sense, they are, like any other generalization, inaccurate to the extent that they do not account for the existence of deviations from the norm. I would readily agree that the circle paradigm, by providing only a general construct for studying or understanding the issue, suffers from the same flaw. However, as I pointed out in my response to ThomasLite the overall worldviews of what we call the "extreme right" and "extreme left" are much closer than most would care to acknowledge.

241 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:12:34pm

re: #238 commadore183

Apparently Lee deposited two additional boxes/backpacks that are probably filled with explosives/explosive devices. That area won't be cleared for a while I assume.

I hope so. There was a bomb threat here in Oregon that they failed to take seriously and several police officers died.

242 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:14:20pm

re: #240 sliv_the_eli

As an academic matter, however, they are convenient descriptives that provide a contextual structure for understanding general approaches of a particular world-view.

No, they're not, for reasons I already detailed at length. They don't describe coherent worldviews, in any way, shape, or form.

243 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:48pm

re: #216 Obdicut


Certainly food for thought.

244 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:22:12pm

re: #234 Charles

You've totally got my position wrong. I'm pretty far from trying to call this guy "right wing" or "left wing". He was crazy. Period.

ah okay. well that's one thing on which we agree, then.
then again, "crazy" is what you have to be to take up arms against your fellow men in such a way.
also, I'd say Geller is quite crazy. VHEMT folks are quite crazy. yet they're still right- respectively leftwingers nonetheless. I don't think denying that is helpful. however it seems that's really a matter of semantics so let's agree to disagree there; to each his own way I guess.

re: #236 Obdicut

I'm not saying O'Reilly is responsible. I'm saying that calling people names that imply they kill children creates more of an environment where violence against them is acceptable than saying that oil companies pollute does.

and I'm saying imposing a such strict Overton Window on such a sensitive subject (which it is by 'virtue' of flaring emotions in all discussion of it) that it should not be allowed to make inflammatory statements like that anymore makes those whose views fall outside that window entrench themselves in such a manner that they will certainly not be convinced of a more reasonable alternative; also it tends to make them feel persecuted which can be the final trigger to set off such a killing.
forbid nazi symbols and neo-nazi groups take an explosive rise in membership and sympathy. same darned thing. ridiculing them on the other hand, tends to have the opposite effect. that and it makes for a rather more joyful, humorous world ;)

re: #242 Obdicut

No, they're not, for reasons I already detailed at length. They don't describe coherent worldviews, in any way, shape, or form.

yet they still are rather handy to broadly categorize that which would otherwise take volumes to describe.

categorizing things and people is what we do, it's how we work. as long as you don't make the mistake of taking the individual to hold all the ideas of the group in which you've conveniently categorized him or her but keep an open mind it makes life livable and saves time to spend on what matters.
when I see how a fellow student dresses, hear how he talks, I can often deduce what frat (euro equiv.) he belongs to, what hobbies he has and what music he listens to - to a certain extent.
never would I take that to be a foolproof, accurate method. it is, however, the way we work, socially.
and regarding other peoples' views is, after all, a social activity.
it's good to not rely on the broad brush too much, but it can be very useful.

245 rakkasan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #224 Charles

Note this point from his "manifesto" -- sounds like quite a right winger here:

"Anchor baby" is not exactly a typical left wing term.

It's weird, Charles, but I'm thinking again about the guy who flew the plane into the government building in Austin, and then thinking about a lot of stuff I've seen on sites like "PrisonPlanet," and wondering if there isn't some kind of mash-up of extremism going on, like two galaxies colliding. I read a lot of comments lately that make it impossible to pigeonhole certain people, as they seem to have bought in to every conspiracy/extremist theory out there, even the ones that cancel other ones out, which they also believe in. It's like there's this crying need to make sense of all the information, and the idea that a lot of what happens is just random or stupidity-generated just scares them more than anything else. I wonder how much saner a lot of people would be if they were just disconnected from all TV, radio, books and internet for a month.

246 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:26:44pm

re: #13 tradewind

In Europe, ' asian ' is press code for 'muslim '. At least it's American press, so he's probably actually Asian.//

speaking as a european - and one which has been published in the european press at that - bull shit.

247 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:32:02pm

re: #246 wozzablog

speaking as a european - and one which has been published in the european press at that - bull shit.

yup, never heard it either.
complaint was, some time ago, that suspects were named if the name was clearly western, and not named if it wasn't.
it happened a few times but such things can seemingly appear if you just look for them hard enough.
"european" is a broad term though. I'm Dutch, dunno where you're from? I'm certainly sure that if such a thing were the case in, say portugal I would not have heard of it.

calling bullshit for now though. certainly seeing where tradewind seems to get his information nowadays, which are sources more than capable of making such a thing up out of thin air.

248 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:12pm

re: #244 ThomasLite

What do you mean by 'it should not be allowed to make such statements anymore'?

I'm disapproving of such statements. I'm not trying to disallow them.

249 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:41:25pm

re: #248 Obdicut

What do you mean by 'it should not be allowed to make such statements anymore'?

I'm disapproving of such statements. I'm not trying to disallow them.

whoops. translation error on my part. keep in mind a overly strong social isolation of such opinions amounts to the same thing in the eyes of those who sympathise with the objectionable ideas. it also serves no purpose. it was still either a translation error or misinterpretation on my part though - my apologies.

I still feel it's dismissing an idea by calling it bigoted, instead of pointing out the bigotry in it.
yes, it's a lot of work to point it out every time, it's also the only way you're ever going to actually convince anyone instead of just digging a deeper trench.

250 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:54:39pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Depends on what you mean by "describ[ing] coherent worldviews". I didn't and don't claim that they do so, only that they are constructs taht facilitate inquiry. Water is not actually "water", but merely the term we give as a useful moniker for a substance that is generally comprised of two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Calling it water does not provide a "coherent description" of the substance, its nature or its behavior, only a strarting point for a discussion. The same holds true for the terms "right" and "left" and the "continuum on a line" vs. "continuum on a circule" paradigms. You are certainly welcome to approach the subject through any construct you prefer. I simply offered it as a subject for discussion. Your critiques over the course of the past few hours are nevertheless appreciated, and will certainly help refine my approach to the subject.

And with that, and a hat tip to A.A. Milne, TTFN.

251 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:51:51pm

re: #250 sliv_the_eli


Nothing you said made any sense to me.

252 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 11:05:15am

re: #251 Obdicut

Nothing you said made any sense to me.

TTFN - Ta Ta for now.........


beyond that, i dunno either


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