Discovery Gunman: Just Nuts

Opinion • Views: 2,854

It would be nice if everyone could just agree that James Jay Lee, the hostage taker killed today in a standoff at the offices of the Discovery Channel, was deranged. And leave it at that. But of course, we’re already seeing some extremely partisan bloggers trying to put him in the “left wing” category, simply because his weird views sprang out of a kind of extreme environmentalism. (I’m not sure how caring for the environment makes one a “left winger,” but that’s another topic.)

Lee’s “manifesto” has been taken offline, but Google’s cache still has it for a little while.

If Lee was anything, he was a radical Squirrelist.

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

Of course.

Lee also harbored a special animosity for immigrants:

5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)

Do I need to point out that “anchor baby filth” is not exactly standard left wing terminology?

James Jay Lee was a very disturbed individual who fixated on the Discovery Channel for some reason. He was not left wing, he was not right wing, and he was not sane. We should be glad that no one else was harmed when he snapped.

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583 comments
1 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:06:02pm

Note, also, "the froggies".

2 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:07:05pm

You know the constant cries to "find solutions" without putting forward anything useful seem to be...

(I can't finish this post at this point because I'm torn between my own desire not to worship the magical balance fairy just cause and not being wise/experienced enough to state to state my gut feelings with confidence and being will to back them up...)

3 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:07:17pm

But how can you attack the opposition by just calling him crazy?

4 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:08:00pm

re: #1 reine.de.tout

Note, also, "the froggies".

Well, everyone has a natural revulsion to the French.

/

5 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:08:35pm

re: #2 jamesfirecat

You know the constant cries to "find solutions" without putting forward anything useful seem to be...

(I can't finish this post at this point because I'm torn between my own desire not to worship the magical balance fairy just cause and not being wise/experienced enough to state to state my gut feelings with confidence and being will to back them up...)

Oh, he put forward a solution - here, I've put them in bold:

Also, war must be halted. Not because it's morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!

The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.

6 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:09:21pm

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

7 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:09:50pm

Exploitation of tragedy is usually associated with ambulance chasing lawyers. Hey why should our pundits be any better? Add this to my long list of reasons to not waste much time on pundits. Wrong so often they make rookie weather forecasters shine.

8 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:10:07pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

I'll stick with crazy sonofabitch and leave it at that.

9 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:11:05pm

Well, in this day and age, anything for partisan smears.

However, there is a real point to be made about the difference between the singular and bizarre delusions of a lone whack job, and the mass delusions of many.

These hateful right wing delusions are made respectable, and believable through constant repetition, from a 24/7 campaign of fear mongering, hate mongering and misinformation coming out of Fox and the right wing media. The effects of that are otherwise "sane" but stupid, angry and frightened people will think it is sane to make insane acts.

This guy was a true whack job and a lone nutcase.

The episodes of anti-Muslim violence spreading in America are something else. The fear of immigrants to the point of dehumanizing laws is something else. These things are no less deranged and far more destructive.

They are far more widespread. They are fed 24/7 with ever more insanity. Truly, are the rantings of Beck any more sane than this guy? How many people listen to Beck?

10 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:11:26pm

Sadly, the responsibility lies where it lies. It's time to stop the inciteful rhetoric, Mr Vice President....///

Lee said at the time that he experienced an ‘‘awakening” when he watched former Vice President Al Gore’s environmental documentary ‘‘An Inconvenient Truth.”


MSNBC Video

Not enough sarc tags. Of course I don't hold the former Vice President's film responsible for this nutjob. Too often, though, that's exactly the brush that is used to paint conservatives with when a nut goes ballistic in the name of, say, religion.
Insanity is not a partisan condition.
11 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:11:29pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

I don't see that. I see a crazy person with views from all over the map.

12 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:11:43pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

Cato, so what?

13 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:12:27pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

Environmentally deranged and anti immigrant. A "wabbit season- duck season" moment indeed.

14 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:12:51pm

re: #10 tradewind

It's a good thing you don't hold an accurate, sober documentary responsible for this guy. Why would you?

On the other hand, the lies, distortions, and smears spread about Muslims do, I feel bear a margin of responsibility for violence committed against them.

Do you not see a difference between truth and lies?

15 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:13:02pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

You want to explain his far-right statements regarding immigration then?

16 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:13:13pm

Everyone knows that the squirrels and froggies will one day be our evil overlords....

17 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:13:19pm
Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.


...and especially rabbits.

18 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:13:27pm

You know the point where the left and right wing extremes meet and start to resemble each other? This guy runs the fruit stand at that intersection.

19 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:13:28pm

re: #10 tradewind

Sadly, the responsibility lies where it lies. It's time to stop the inciteful rhetoric, Mr Vice President...///


[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
Not enough sarc tags. Of course I don't hold the former Vice President's film responsible for this nutjob. Too often, though, that's exactly the brush that is used to paint conservatives with when a nut goes ballistic in the name of, say, religion.
Insanity is not a partisan condition.

Thank you for the sarc tags Al Gore is no more responsible for this idiot than J.D. Salinger is for the death of John Lennon.

20 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:14:14pm

re: #10 tradewind

Sadly, the responsibility lies where it lies. It's time to stop the inciteful rhetoric, Mr Vice President...///


[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
Not enough sarc tags. Of course I don't hold the former Vice President's film responsible for this nutjob. Too often, though, that's exactly the brush that is used to paint conservatives with when a nut goes ballistic in the name of, say, religion.
Insanity is not a partisan condition.

' cept big time partisanship sure makes me crazy...

21 The Yankee  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:14:26pm

I will say it again what are the odds of this guy being involved in ELF. I doubt it cause his objective was silly but he could of been motivated by them?

22 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:14:37pm

re: #18 KingKenrod

You know the point where the left and right wing extremes meet and start to resemble each other? This guy runs the fruit stand at that intersection.

Yeah much like that jackass (for lack of a stronger word) who flew a plane into the IRS building because he was in part upset about how Churches doesn't pay taxes while the common man does....

23 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:14:47pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

If this guy was not a left-wing moonbat, then there is no such thing.

Spin away, peeps.

You can say that with a straight face even after reading his comments which include “anchor baby filth” and “immigration pollution”?

24 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:15:11pm

To paraphrase an earlier comment, Lee was a nut job. His 'manifesto' are the ravings of a lunatic. His politics are irrelevant. They were merely a delivery vehicle for his insanity.

25 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:15:43pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat
And I'm glad that your reading comprehension appears to be adequate, unlike Obdicut's.
Nothing screams open-mind like someone saying ' yeah, glad you see that, but eff you anyway '.

26 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:15:51pm

re: #24 researchok

Really reminds me of the guy that flew into the IRS building.

27 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:16:04pm

He was probably not seriously so much about hating immigrants as he was about hating humans for what they've done to the gorillas, the squirrels, and the froggies.

There is a strong current of human-hatred among many self-professed eco-fanatics, most of whom would self-identify as progressive-left, as well.

They must claim him as their own.

28 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:16:15pm

re: #11 Charles

I don't see that. I see a crazy person with views from all over the map.

That's what I see.

In addition, there is no indication that his behavior was promoted and urged on by prominent authors and speakers (ahem *spencer/geller*).

Or by any lefty politician (ahem *newt/palin/any number of others*)

This guy's sole interest was in saving the froggies and other wildlife, it seems to me. And he didn't much like people.

29 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:16:30pm

re: #24 researchok

He may have also been trying to impress Jodie Foster. Who he thought was Queen of the Squirrels.

30 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:17:03pm

re: #21 The Yankee
What's ELF? Don't tell me.... Earth Liberation Front?

31 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:17:04pm

Leftwing or rightwing he seemed like a mix of the extreme of each side.
Do people like this have any politics except for their special form of crazy?

32 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:17:07pm

re: #23 Gus 802

You can say that with a straight face even after reading his comments which include “anchor baby filth” and “immigration pollution”?

Yes. My face is straight. See #27.

33 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:17:33pm

re: #29 Obdicut

He may have also been trying to impress Jodie Foster. Who he thought was Queen of the Squirrels.

Poor lady. She really does attract the whack jobs huh.

34 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:17:42pm

re: #31 webevintage
Crazy is the operative term here.
The rest is just side dressing.

35 The Yankee  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:24pm

re: #30 tradewind

What's ELF? Don't tell me... Earth Liberation Front?

Yea they said something about killing people would be on the agenda a few years back.

36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #1 reine.de.tout

Note, also, "the froggies".

Daddy loves Froggie.
Does Froggie love daddy?
-Hedley LaMar

37 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:26pm

apologies if someone posted this earlier, but apparently this isn't his first episode at the Discovery Channel headquarters.

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

Supposedly after the 2008 arrest, he was ordered to undergo treatment but was never held to it...although my only source for that right now is TMZ, so i'll look for a more credible link.

38 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:32pm

*furiously searching the web for a trail leading back to Glenn Beck or a Tea Party*

39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:48pm

re: #30 tradewind

What's ELF? Don't tell me... Earth Liberation Front?

Will Ferrell movie.

40 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:18:49pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

He was probably not seriously so much about hating immigrants as he was about hating humans for what they've done to the gorillas, the squirrels, and the froggies.

There is a strong current of human-hatred among many self-professed eco-fanatics, most of whom would self-identify as progressive-left, as well.

They must claim him as their own.

Will the Conservative Right be claiming their fanatics, like the guy who tried to slit a cab driver's throat as one of their own any time soon?

41 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:19:26pm

re: #35 The Yankee
ZOMG.
I was kidding. I really had no idea.

42 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:19:46pm

re: #40 jamesfirecat

That guy was a leftie. Don't you read?

43 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:19:47pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

And you're accusing others of spinning?

Sheesh.

44 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:19:58pm

re: #39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I would have fallen for it./

45 quilly mammoth  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:20:27pm

I blame it on The Bloodhound Gang. People like Lee are just F'n nuts. As I've said time and again, which is why they grab on to all sorts of things that are not really associated with each other. Such chaos gives those that want to blame others cheap fodder.

46 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:20:37pm

Again this is more important as a reason to address mental health issues rather than politicizing this. Lets fix the problem, rather than faux fixing the blame shall we? Sure would have been nice if someone had intervened with the IRS pilot, the Una bomber and this creep.

47 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:20:47pm

Oh goody, President Palin is at the Twitter again:

Wow,media goofballs rearing heads this wk,big time!Wonder what's up?Taking the cake:ink re:Bristol=a diva? Silly;obviously have nvr met her

When yellow journalism gets ratcheted up for a period of time over an individual or an issue it makes u wonder what's up? What's the threat?

I guess she is pissed about the Vanity Fair article?

48 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:20:54pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

I know some voluntary human extinction types, and they're still nothing like this guy. Far beyond the pale into mentally ill.

49 avanti  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:21:12pm

re: #23 Gus 802

You can say that with a straight face even after reading his comments which include “anchor baby filth” and “immigration pollution”?

Assume that the many on the right think God will take care of all environmental issues, they can't claim him. His views on immigration means he's not a not a leftie either. I think he's just a insane, and arguing about the politics of a crazy person, seems a waste of time. Of course, the left and right both have a few crazies, it's a trait that is not limited to ideology.

50 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:21:14pm

Number of illegal immigrants in US now declining

The number of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. has dropped for the first time in two decades , decreasing by 8 percent since 2007, a new study finds. The reasons range from the sour economy to Mexican violence and increased U.S. enforcement that has made it harder to sneak across the border.

Much of the decline comes from a sharp drop-off in illegal immigrants from the Caribbean, Central America and South America attempting to cross the southern border of the U.S., according to the Pew Hispanic Center, which based its report on an analysis of 2009 census data.

-

The study puts the number of illegal immigrants down to about where it was in 2005. They still make up roughly 4 percent of the U.S. population.

The Homeland Security Department's own estimate of illegal immigrants is slightly lower, at 10.8 million. The government uses a different census survey that makes some year-to-year comparisons difficult.

An increase in unauthorized immigrants leaving the U.S., by deportation or for economic reasons, may have played a factor in the falling number.

In recent years, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has deported an increasing number of illegal immigrants, reaching a high last year of more than 389,000 people, according to government figures.

51 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

He was probably not seriously so much about hating immigrants as he was about hating humans for what they've done to the gorillas, the squirrels, and the froggies.

There is a strong current of human-hatred among many self-professed eco-fanatics, most of whom would self-identify as progressive-left, as well.

They must claim him as their own.

Since from your comments on the last thread you are clearly pointing this shit at me, I will repost my response.

Do you think I am spinning him? Cato? Is there a reason you are picking a fight?

I said he seems to be a far left libertarian of the LaRouche variety with certain views from all over the map. If you missed that then, you can see it clearly here now.

I went on to point out that he had a number of far right views as well. Then again with the far left and the far right, that far into the realm of crazy, it is very difficult to tell. Is his isolationism coming from the left or the right? What of his hatred of immigrants? I don't know. It also does not matter.

I also pointed out that as in all cases of the far left whackaddoodles that come up here, they are isolated whackjobs. However, the right wing nuts have a 24/7 national media campaign firing them up. Care to discuss which is more dangerous, or do you care to get cranky and spout off some more?

What is your major malfunction?

52 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:21:36pm

re: #37 Aceofwhat?

apologies if someone posted this earlier, but apparently this isn't his first episode at the Discovery Channel headquarters.

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

Supposedly after the 2008 arrest, he was ordered to undergo treatment but was never held to it...although my only source for that right now is TMZ, so i'll look for a more credible link.

I posted a link downstairs about his prior conviction, which also had backstory of where his money came from:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

53 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:21:58pm

re: #18 KingKenrod

You know the point where the left and right wing extremes meet and start to resemble each other? This guy runs the fruit stand at that intersection.

That is the best comment I have seen on him.

54 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:22:32pm

re: #51 LudwigVanQuixote

Port.

55 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:22:41pm

re: #38 Racer X
That dog don't hunt.
But don't fret: there'll be another right-wing outrage by the next news cycle.
If there's one thing not running at deficit levels in the country right now, it's the whack job population.

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:23:32pm

re: #18 KingKenrod

Top Ten, Ken!

57 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #50 Racer X
Not to mention that the economy sucks, not enough money to make it worth while in many cases.

58 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:24:26pm

The 'eco terrorists' who have burned down homes, businesses and have torn down radio towers and have made arson a form of political expression are whack jobs.

Their politics are not germane, no matter how hard they want to pretend they espouse environmentalist values.

This guy fits in that category.

Left wing terrorists were Baader Meinhof, SLA, and so on. Lee wasn't in that category.

59 Mark Pennington  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:24:34pm

Great post, Charles. The man was obviously mentally ill. I'm sad that he couldn't get some help but glad everyone else is safe.

60 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:24:37pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
What about it, Ludwig.... should we have stripped him of his suffrage?//

61 Steve Dutch  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:24:40pm

This guy lived in the weird zone where the ultra far right and ultra far left meet on the opposite pole from sanity. The people who meld leftish and rightish conspiracies into one big grand hyper-conspiracy. He's doing this for squirrels? If any critter on the planet is not endangered, it's squirrels.

62 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:24:45pm

re: #51 LudwigVanQuixote

Since from your comments on the last thread you are clearly pointing this shit at me, I will repost my response.

Do you think I am spinning him? Cato? Is there a reason you are picking a fight?

I said he seems to be a far left libertarian of the LaRouche variety with certain views from all over the map. If you missed that then, you can see it clearly here now.

I went on to point out that he had a number of far right views as well. Then again with the far left and the far right, that far into the realm of crazy, it is very difficult to tell. Is his isolationism coming from the left or the right? What of his hatred of immigrants? I don't know. It also does not matter.

I also pointed out that as in all cases of the far left whackaddoodles that come up here, they are isolated whackjobs. However, the right wing nuts have a 24/7 national media campaign firing them up. Care to discuss which is more dangerous, or do you care to get cranky and spout off some more?

What is your major malfunction?

I'm amused at the frantic attempt to preemptively spin this guy away from his roots, which are plainly deep in the soil of far-left eco-fascism.

I've read what's available of his screeds, so far, and they're full of eco-fascist, far-left memes, filtered through the mind of a crazy person.

It is what it is.

63 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:26:03pm

re: #62 Cato the Elder

Seriously Cato, isn't the whole point of this thread talking about how its not right to tie this guy to any ideology beyond the tragedy of mental illness?

Should every philosophy have to claim every schizophrenic or dangerous paranoid that advocates it?

64 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:27:11pm

This unbelievably moronic "Malthus connection" between Lee and John Holdren seems to be spreading like a contagious disease.
The nuts are plainly unaware that practically anyone with an interest in population theory will have quoted Malthus at one time or another. They are behaving exactly as though Malthus is some mutual friend or perhaps supporter and mentor of both Lee and Holdren.

It's worth noting that Marx, Engels, and Lenin all condemned Malthus:

Engels called Malthus's hypothesis "...the crudest, most barbarous theory that ever existed, a system of despair which struck down all those beautiful phrases about love thy neighbour and world citizenship." Engels also predicted[citation needed] that science would solve the problem of an adequate food supply.

In the Marxist tradition, Lenin sharply criticized Malthusian theory and its neo-Malthusian version, calling it a "reactionary doctrine" and "an attempt on the part of bourgeois ideologists to exonerate capitalism and to prove the inevitability of privation and misery for the working class under any social system".

65 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:27:43pm

re: #47 webevintage

Oh goody, President Palin is at the Twitter again:

I guess she is pissed about the Vanity Fair article?

Seriously is all Palin does is whine? This is why I don't take her seriously as presidential material. She's always bitching about something. Whether it's the media, liberals, etc.

66 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:27:49pm

For all his hatred of his fellow man, he didn't kill anyone.

67 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:28:03pm

re: #48 windsagio
Serious question, since I don't know any HE types: do they just want to leave Mama Gaia to herself, or do they make allowances for a token caretaker force?

68 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:28:08pm

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

Really reminds me of the guy that flew into the IRS building.

Great catch. Lee was the other side of that coin.

69 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:28:43pm

re: #66 Amory Blaine

For all his hatred of his fellow man, he didn't kill anyone.

Thank the deity of your choice for small mercies...

70 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:00pm

re: #67 tradewind

Serious question, since I don't know any HE types: do they just want to leave Mama Gaia to herself, or do they make allowances for a token caretaker force?

Some of both.

71 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:01pm

re: #50 Racer X

Number of illegal immigrants in US now declining

Of course you probably won't see that story on FOX.....BUT I see that Obama is taking away our guns:
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Or at least the right to buy guns from the South Korean government.

72 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:20pm

I just hope Tory, from Mythbusters, is OK!

73 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:44pm

re: #67 tradewind

The ones I know want us gone entirely, but only by the nonbreeding route, they don't wanna kill anybody :p

But to answer your question; no, no residual force.

74 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #66 Amory Blaine
Thank heavens. It appears that but for the authorities, he had plenty of material to take out a lot of folks.
Let's hope there's no mine field effect and they find all the stuff he left.

75 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:29:57pm

You've heard of secular humanists?

He was a whackjob anti-humanist.

76 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:30:19pm

re: #73 windsagio

The ones I know want us gone entirely, but only by the nonbreeding route, they don't wanna kill anybody :p

But to answer your question; no, no residual force.

wow

77 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:30:41pm

re: #63 windsagio

Seriously Cato, isn't the whole point of this thread talking about how its not right to tie this guy to any ideology beyond the tragedy of mental illness?

Should every philosophy have to claim every schizophrenic or dangerous paranoid that advocates it?

Should we deny that the extremes generate this kind of mental illness as a matter of course? Is one extreme less guilty than others?

Is it important what kind of extreme rhetoric drove this guy over the edge?

It would be to many here, including you, if he had attacked a mosque. That would rightly be taken as a sign that the right-wing fascist bigot brigade is seeing its children grow up.

Left-wing anti-human inciters may be less successful at the moment, but they are what they are.

78 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:30:50pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Seriously is all Palin does is whine? This is why I don't take her seriously as presidential material. She's always bitching about something. Whether it's the media, liberals, etc.

Professional victim.

I don't understand how anyone could find all her whinging in the least bit attractive. I have a feeling that a lot of them feel like they are "victims" in some way too.

79 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:31:06pm

re: #73 windsagio

The ones I know want us gone entirely, but only by the nonbreeding route, they don't wanna kill anybody :p

But to answer your question; no, no residual force.

There are some that are for "radical population reduction" or "population control" rather than outright extinction, but they'd probably fall into the same category. By and large, though, it seems the prevailing view among the vast unhinged is the one where they just want humans to go away completely.

80 Tigger2  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:31:18pm

re: #11 Charles

I don't see that. I see a crazy person with views from all over the map.


Yeah, hes pretty much an equal opportunity crazy.

81 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:31:39pm

re: #73 windsagio
That's just beyond weird. Are they expecting the Mother Ship to hover until the last human is dead, so that HAL can make sure?

82 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:31:45pm

re: #77 Cato the Elder


Left-wing anti-human inciters may be less successful at the moment, but they are what they are.

They certainly don't have their own MSM outlets.

83 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:31:46pm

re: #76 Aceofwhat?

I'm sure that there are some of the others too, someone else said they were :D

Resource.

Best FAQ question: "Are some people opposed to the VHEMT movement?"

... ya think?!

84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:32:00pm

re: #72 reuven

I just hope Tory, from Mythbusters, is OK!

You do mean Tory Belleci, right? Not Kari Byron.

85 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:32:13pm

re: #64 Shiplord Kirel

This unbelievably moronic "Malthus connection" between Lee and John Holdren seems to be spreading like a contagious disease.
The nuts are plainly unaware that practically anyone with an interest in population theory will have quoted Malthus at one time or another. They are behaving exactly as though Malthus is some mutual friend or perhaps supporter and mentor of both Lee and Holdren.

It's worth noting that Marx, Engels, and Lenin all condemned Malthus:

He also mentioned Darwin. This thing is ripe for wingnut pickings.

86 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:32:24pm

re: #62 Cato the Elder

I'm amused at the frantic attempt to preemptively spin this guy away from his roots, which are plainly deep in the soil of far-left eco-fascism.

I've read what's available of his screeds, so far, and they're full of eco-fascist, far-left memes, filtered through the mind of a crazy person.

It is what it is.

Right, and in the course of his doing so, he is going to be yet another case where the wingnuts go and ignore the rising tide of violence and racism coming from the right in a much stronger and larger movement. But go ahead, ignore that aspect of it and have your point. I am sure that makes you feel clever.

You even bring that on a thread discussing a group of hooligans trying to run over Muslims.

The difference is that those hooligans were not certifiable nuts like his, but rather, your average, not so bright, kids fired up full of hatred and ugliness. They are actually sane in as much commonality is a measure of sanity - if filled with delusional levels of publicly acceptable brainwashing.

Which is the bigger issue?

But go ahead, help create a diversion in a misplaced fit of egalitarianism, gross equivocation and sloppy thinking on your part.

You are usually one of the brighter posters here. Tonight, your arrogance is making you butt dumb.

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:32:44pm

re: #84 EmmmieG

You do mean Tory Belleci, right? Not Kari Byron.

Cause I think one of my all-time favorite moments was when Kari got to wax Tory's legs for a sock myth.

88 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:05pm

"Really reminds me of the guy that flew into the IRS building."

IIRC, that guy got some mainstream right-wing sympathy!

For example:

[Link: www.veteranstoday.com...]

89 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:07pm

re: #60 tradewind

What about it, Ludwig... should we have stripped him of his suffrage?//

Well he sort of took his own suffrage away by committing a felony and getting dead, don't you think?

90 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:37pm

re: #77 Cato the Elder

This is something else, and you're being offensive.

Something like this, people can't help.

91 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:40pm

Example:

tillerylakelady‎: Breaking:James J. Lee, atheist leftwing pro-abortion nutjob, has left the Discovery Channel building in a Bag. #glenn beck #liberals #dems

92 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:33:45pm

re: #85 Gus 802

He also mentioned Darwin. This thing is ripe for wingnut pickings.

At least most of the wingnuts know that Darwin is dead and Al Gore is alive (at least I think they do).

93 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:11pm

re: #86 LudwigVanQuixote

Whatever. I probably couldn't pass an algebra test, either.

94 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:35pm

re: #87 EmmmieG

Yes! I'm a Tory fan! To each his own...You can like Kari. Fortunately, they're here in SF (where there's a new Serial Killer story dominating the news) and far away from Discovery HQ.

95 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:39pm

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote
You figured it out.
I was wondering.

96 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:40pm

re: #90 windsagio

The idea that rhetoric 'drove this guy over the edge' (what rhetoric?) is just... awful.

97 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:54pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Whatever. I probably couldn't pass an algebra test, either.

Well then you should never express opinions of science or economics. You are unqualified to do so.

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:34:57pm

re: #78 webevintage

Professional victim.

I don't understand how anyone could find all her whinging in the least bit attractive. I have a feeling that a lot of them feel like they are "victims" in some way too.

Yeah that's the best word I guess to describe her and her actions. I don't get it either. I read her speeches that she uses on the stump and it's all about resentment with liberals, elites, etc. I just don't get what people see in her at all and why they would want her to be president. I get wanting other policies than Obama's even if I disagree with them but Palin is such a nasty person with no substance just nasty rhetoric.

99 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:35:10pm

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote

Well he sort of took his own suffrage away by committing a felony and getting dead, don't you think?

Getting dead.

Kicking the bucket.

Achieving room temperature.

Pushing up daisies.

Meeting his maker.

As you can see, I have no sympathy for this person. I'm just glad he only took himself out.

100 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:35:25pm

He was an atheist, pro-abortion, left-wing, Holdren loving, Multhusian, Communist, Darwinian, evolutionist, moonbat, Homersexual!!11ty

Eleventy!!11ty

101 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:35:45pm

re: #100 Gus 802

He was an atheist, pro-abortion, left-wing, Holdren loving, Multhusian, Communist, Darwinian, evolutionist, moonbat, Homersexual!!11ty

Eleventy!!11ty

You need a few more exclamation points. You're not wingnutty enough. Now get out.

102 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:20pm

re: #101 thedopefishlives

You need a few more exclamation points. You're not wingnutty enough. Now get out.

[Hangs head in shame.]

/

103 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:26pm

re: #91 Gus 802

Example:

OOGA BOOGA!!
/Atheofascist.

104 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:26pm

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Well then you should never express opinions of science or economics. You are unqualified to do so.

Fuck science and economics.

I'm a poet.

105 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:44pm

None of this makes political sense!

/

106 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:46pm

re: #100 Gus 802

He was an atheist, pro-abortion, left-wing, Holdren loving, Multhusian, Communist, Darwinian, evolutionist, moonbat, Homersexual!!11ty

Eleventy!!11ty

Not Muslim :)
I know you said atheist but that doesn't take away from the fact that I saw Freepers saying the Muslim Obama would implement Sharia Law and legalizing gay marriage.

107 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:52pm

re: #99 EmmmieG

Have some sympathy, his life was probably no picnic. I've worked with people with severe mental illness, they're often annoying, awful, disgusting and horrible.

And they can't help it. Most of them would desperately like to be better, but its largely beyond their abilities.

108 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:36:53pm

re: #100 Gus 802

The thing is, Malthus was kind of a libertarian. He preferred private charity to public welfare, and saw welfare as propagating the misery of the underclass by increasing the population unsustainably.

If he gets painted as 'left-wing' I'm going to laugh.

109 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:37:01pm

re: #83 windsagio

I'm sure that there are some of the others too, someone else said they were :D

Resource.

Best FAQ question: "Are some people opposed to the VHEMT movement?"

... ya think?!

wow

110 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:37:40pm

Ludwig just realized that under his political scheme, I am unqualified to vote.

I haz a sad.

111 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:38:09pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Nonsensical statement.


The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science

112 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:38:45pm

hello everybody...........

113 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:38:47pm

Hotair:

Logical outworking of the secular humanist worldview.
Inanemergencydial on September 1, 2010 at 5:25 PM

114 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:39:13pm

re: #96 windsagio
Lee's the one who said he had been
' awakened ' by the film.
Poor Veep. He's a regular magnet for looney-tunes accusations.

115 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:39:26pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Logical has nothing to do with it.

116 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:39:30pm

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Well then you should never express opinions of science or economics. You are unqualified to do so.

that was sarcasm, right?

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:39:52pm

re: #107 windsagio

Have some sympathy, his life was probably no picnic. I've worked with people with severe mental illness, they're often annoying, awful, disgusting and horrible.

And they can't help it. Most of them would desperately like to be better, but its largely beyond their abilities.

This is a raw nerve with me right now. A mentally ill person in California just killed my friend's bishop. Six children are now fatherless. I wish he had only killed himself.

Yes, I have heard how hard they can be do deal with. My aunt and uncle are psychologists.

118 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40:09pm

re: #114 tradewind

You really want to pin this on Gore, don't you?

119 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40:12pm

re: #90 windsagio

This is something else, and you're being offensive.

Something like this, people can't help.

You would never for one second allow mental illness as an excuse for a murderous mentally ill wingnut.

Damage control is all I see here.

120 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40:22pm

re: #116 Aceofwhat?
Hell, it's comedy.

121 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40:52pm

re: #61 SteveDutch

This guy lived in the weird zone where the ultra far right and ultra far left meet on the opposite pole from sanity. The people who meld leftish and rightish conspiracies into one big grand hyper-conspiracy. He's doing this for squirrels? If any critter on the planet is not endangered, it's squirrels.

17 days till squirrel season opens! 18 days till the crock pot is full! :D

122 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40:58pm

Posted at a loon site: "Libfag Charles Johnson trying to make Lee out to be a right wingnut".

With a link to this post, which says very clearly Lee was not a right winger.

123 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:41:23pm

re: #118 Varek Raith
No.
That'd be almost as ridiculous as your rhetorical question.

124 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:41:41pm

re: #122 Charles

Posted at a loon site: "Libfag Charles Johnson trying to make Lee out to be a right wingnut".

With a link to this post, which says very clearly Lee was not a right winger.

But, but, but Charles, you did say he's not a left winger, which means he absolutely positively HAS to be a right winger! DUH! It makes so much sense! Wake up sheeple!

/Afk, my bullshit detector exploded

125 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:42:56pm

re: #122 Charles

Posted at a loon site: "Libfag Charles Johnson trying to make Lee out to be a right wingnut".

With a link to this post, which says very clearly Lee was not a right winger.

There is only white and black no shades of gray in the mind of these folks.

126 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:01pm

re: #119 Cato the Elder

Yup, got it, this is all about me protecting those crazy evil propagantists from the VHEMT movement!

I surrender! They're the greatest threat to America (after TTORI), and should be dealt with forthwith!

127 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:10pm

re: #124 thedopefishlives
Five'll get you ten the guy never saw the inside of a voting booth, or worked on anyone's campaign, regardless of ideology.
It was all about him.

128 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:31pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

You really want to pin this on Gore, don't you?

We've just got to pin this on someone other than the deranged lunatic. Someone has to be held accountable.


Please please please let him be a teabagger!

129 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:41pm

re: #125 webevintage
Definitely no gray matter, anyway.

130 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:43pm

re: #113 Gus 802


*shrug* This one's from DU.


doc03 Wed Sep-01-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Chalk up another terrorist inspired by the wingnuts n/t

look in either swamp, and you'll see blame for the other side.

131 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:43pm

re: #90 windsagio

This is something else, and you're being offensive.

Something like this, people can't help.

Then we ought to have more legal power over the insane.

132 blueraven  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:43:44pm

This guy was a lone nut case. There is no denying that he held some sort of extreme far-left ecofascist ideas with a few right wing talking points (immigration) thrown in for good measure.

The thing is, there is not a mainstream organized group of people pushing these kind of extreme ideas, it is a mashed-up bit of crazy.

Mental Illness...serious as a heart attack.

Glad it ended with just him being taken out.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:17pm

re: #15 RadicalModerate

You want to explain his far-right statements regarding immigration then?

Everyone knows that the lefties are the real bigots because they oppose immigration to save the environment.

//Heard this one plenty of times, mostly thanks to the helpful dumbassery of the Sierra Club some years ago.

134 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:21pm

Wingnuts have a long list of politicized issues. If you oppose any one of them, then you're a "left-winger." Which definition basically makes 99% of the country left wing, but they also claim to be a majority.

You can't really play guilt-by-association with kooks like this - not that that won't stop the wingnuts from doing so anyways. The closest you can do is pick whatever seems to be the primary issue that drove them to action. In this case, it was anti-anti-global warming. In the Las Vegas plane guy's case, it was taxes. However, in both cases, there were plenty of opinions they held that violate any possibility of ideological purity or affiliation with "either side."

Of course the way wingnuts work is if they scream "he's one of you!" and you respond by stating all of the above, the clueless/uninterested observer is likely to give the victory to the wingnut, since they're advocating a more strongly worded position.

135 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:24pm

re: #117 EmmmieG

I can see that, it just frustrates me. Its just... you know, gah. People are so harsh on the sick.

136 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:25pm

re: #128 Racer X
Patience, grasshopper.
The hot water is always on. Something will jump into it.

137 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:33pm

re: #61 SteveDutch

This guy lived in the weird zone where the ultra far right and ultra far left meet on the opposite pole from sanity. The people who meld leftish and rightish conspiracies into one big grand hyper-conspiracy. He's doing this for squirrels? If any critter on the planet is not endangered, it's squirrels.

Cato, let us assume you are right in every one of your assertions.

Let us assume he was raised by the Baader Meinhof Childcare and Education Division. Let us assume he though Josef Stalin was Christ incarnate and Mao was his over enthusiastic disciple. I will concede that every image of Ronald Reagan, Glenn Beck and Phyllis Schlafly made him physically ill. Perhaps he was still mourning Yasser Arafat's demise. Perhaps his role model was a 'Great Leader' in North Korea.

I will concede he was a lefty of the highest order.

When you go into a building with bombs, armed to the teeth and take hostages, I don't care what you believe. You are crazy, first and foremost.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:37pm

re: #16 webevintage

Everyone knows that the squirrels and froggies will one day be our evil overlords...

I, for one, welcome our adorable woodland overlords.

139 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:39pm

re: #124 thedopefishlives

But, but, but Charles, you did say he's not a left winger, which means he absolutely positively HAS to be a right winger! DUH! It makes so much sense! Wake up sheeple!

/Afk, my bullshit detector exploded

Premature wingnut ejaculation reading comprehension.

/

140 BlackFedora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:44:45pm

Only very small small brains think everything needs to fit into a left wing or right wing box.

141 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:45:03pm

re: #125 webevintage

There is only white and black no shades of gray in the mind of these folks most folks staring at a blog every day.

/fixed

142 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:45:21pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Fuck science and economics.

I'm a poet.

In those instances when making a good quatrain is vital to national policy, your input will be valuable.

How can you possibly be proud of not knowing algebra?

It isn't even math on the level of writing sentences. It's the equivalent of grammar. To make a literary analogy, it isn't like asking if someone knows the difference between John Donne and Shakespeare, it is more like asking if they can read.

This is mathematics that is a good ten centuries old. It is hardly cutting edge.

I assume you are appalled at the fact that most people have never even heard of the real Cato, let alone learned Latin. Yet, what, you feel cranky because now someone has the balls to tell you that the inability to master something that is taught in 7th grade, and mastered by the bright kids in 5th grade is beyond you because you are too lazy to learn it?

You are getting this shit from me, because if you can learn Latin - and you clearly have, - you can certainly master algebra.

Yet somehow, you not only think that such woeful ignorance is acceptable, but you are actually cranky that someone would tell you that being an illiterate on the level of barely being able to manage a see spot run book is not OK.

143 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:46:08pm

re: #122 Charles

Posted at a loon site: "Libfag Charles Johnson trying to make Lee out to be a right wingnut".

With a link to this post, which says very clearly Lee was not a right winger.

Open up a wingnut's brain and drop in the phrase "Lee was not a left winger." They will parse that as meaning "Lee was a right winger." Disjunctive syllogism + excluding the middle.

144 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:46:10pm

re: #131 EmmmieG

We have a lot, the problem is that we aren't willing to pay for their care.

And we have to recognize it coming. We can't really go willy-nilly and imprison people unless we're sure they're a threat to themselves and/or others.

145 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:46:12pm

re: #119 Cato the Elder

You would never for one second allow mental illness as an excuse for a murderous mentally ill wingnut.

Damage control is all I see here.

So which of your Berserk Buttons did this discovery guy hit Cato?

146 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:46:34pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Ludwig just realized that under his political scheme, I am unqualified to vote.

I haz a sad.

If so, it is only because of your laziness. If you can master Latin you can master algebra.

You get no pity for being able to learn, but too lazy to do so.

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:47:11pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I, for one, welcome our adorable woodland overlords.

You have your offerings of nuts and berries ready to go?

(We have "two" squirrels on the back fence. We named them Nutsy and Trigger. We've never bothered to explain a squirrel life span to the kids, so they probably think those are the original squirrels from 10 years ago.)

148 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:47:32pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
You know, those ewoks were actually mean little mutha's.

149 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:47:35pm

What I don't get is the point of calling Charles a libfag. I mean I may get it if we were all in middle school and shit. Just seems extremely juvenile to me to dismiss someone by calling them a fag. Not being PC here, I just think it's stupid as hell. And the fact is Charles clearly stated that Lee was NOT a right winger. The seems like he had nutcase views from left and right and first and foremost he hated humanity.

150 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:48:02pm

With his highly odd mix of far-left and far-right views, I propose that the Discovery gunman was actually a radical moderate!
///

151 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:48:23pm

re: #140 BlackFedora

Only very small small brains think everything needs to fit into a left wing or right wing box.

and that's without either wing disappearing when you put the lid back on the box............

152 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:48:33pm

re: #150 Surabaya Stew

With his highly odd mix of far-left and far-right views, I propose that the Discovery gunman was actually a radical moderate!
///

He was a Whig!

//

153 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:48:53pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

I mean I may get it if we were all in middle school and shit.


Ah, you begin to understand the wingnut mind...

154 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:49:14pm

re: #150 Surabaya Stew

With his highly odd mix of far-left and far-right views, I propose that the Discovery gunman was actually a radical moderate!
///

Our very own?!

155 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:49:19pm

When I first heard of this incident, I thought 'I sure hope LVQ is posting on LGF, and not MIA'. Just for an instant mind you. Before I knew any facts. Sorry. Am I the only one?

156 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:49:38pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I, for one, welcome our adorable woodland overlords.

I nominate this for "awwwww" moment of the day.........

157 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:49:58pm

re: #155 Racer X

Yes.
Jerk.

158 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:50:10pm

re: #137 researchok

Cato, let us assume you are right in every one of your assertions.

Let us assume he was raised by the Baader Meinhof Childcare and Education Division. Let us assume he though Josef Stalin was Christ incarnate and Mao was his over enthusiastic disciple. I will concede that every image of Ronald Reagan, Glenn Beck and Phyllis Schlafly made him physically ill. Perhaps he was still mourning Yasser Arafat's demise. Perhaps his role model was a 'Great Leader' in North Korea.

I will concede he was a lefty of the highest order.

When you go into a building with bombs, armed to the teeth and take hostages, I don't care what you believe. You are crazy, first and foremost.

I don't think anyone is denying the guy was bat shit insane.
however if some idiot wingnut does something crazy he's still a wingnut.
don't see why that shouldn't count for the moonbat population.

159 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

What I don't get is the point of calling Charles a libfag. I mean I may get it if we were all in middle school and shit. Just seems extremely juvenile to me to dismiss someone by calling them a fag. Not being PC here, I just think it's stupid as hell. And the fact is Charles clearly stated that Lee was NOT a right winger. The seems like he had nutcase views from left and right and first and foremost he hated humanity.

Humanity but mostly the Discovery Channel. That's one of the keys here was his obsession with the Discovery Channel. Of course if we could have looked even further he hated himself the most.

160 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:50:25pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior
You said it yourself. ' Middle school and shit '.
There's a lot of that on the interwebz.

161 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:50:46pm

re: #155 Racer X

:-/

162 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:50:48pm

re: #158 ThomasLite

GO up and read the lead post.

163 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:51:04pm

re: #153 elbruce

Ah, you begin to understand the wingnut mind...

Ha, I get it pretty well. Our school paper's resident wingnut was whining about unions this week. I mean sheesh. You're bitching about something in decline.

164 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:51:30pm

re: #152 Gus 802

He was a Whig!

//

That's funny, but I'm sure Ojoe won't claim him a a party member!

:-D

165 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:51:32pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

How can you possibly be proud of not knowing algebra?

It isn't even math on the level of writing sentences. It's the equivalent of grammar. To make a literary analogy, it isn't like asking if someone knows the difference between John Donne and Shakespeare, it is more like asking if they can read.

This is mathematics that is a good ten centuries old. It is hardly cutting edge.
All algebra is equalizing the equation...It's pure math.. I loved DA and hated Trig...
To speak of ideas, policies, politics and influences is a world much deeper...
Hi Ludwig!

166 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:51:47pm

re: #155 Racer X
I wouldn't expect an accurate show of hands./

167 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:15pm

re: #72 reuven

I just hope Tory, from Mythbusters, is OK!

They just checked. The cast is okay, but Buster took a beating...

Hahahaha

168 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:15pm

re: #144 windsagio

We have a lot, the problem is that we aren't willing to pay for their care.

And we have to recognize it coming. We can't really go willy-nilly and imprison people unless we're sure they're a threat to themselves and/or others.

well, that's not quite true, right? we got a little crazy with the institutional cheese whiz around mid-century, then with Addington v. Texas, it became more difficult to commit someone.

169 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:15pm

re: #160 tradewind

You said it yourself. ' Middle school and shit '.
There's a lot of that on the interwebz.

True, true. I do easily concede that people act like douchers with the anoyomity the internet offers and by anoyomity I mean the ability to say assholish stuff without having to worry about getting smacked.

170 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:29pm

re: #154 windsagio

Our very own?!

There's always one of those in every bag of nuts.
/

171 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:30pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

In those instances when making a good quatrain is vital to national policy, your input will be valuable.

How can you possibly be proud of not knowing algebra?

It isn't even math on the level of writing sentences. It's the equivalent of grammar. To make a literary analogy, it isn't like asking if someone knows the difference between John Donne and Shakespeare, it is more like asking if they can read.

This is mathematics that is a good ten centuries old. It is hardly cutting edge.

I assume you are appalled at the fact that most people have never even heard of the real Cato, let alone learned Latin. Yet, what, you feel cranky because now someone has the balls to tell you that the inability to master something that is taught in 7th grade, and mastered by the bright kids in 5th grade is beyond you because you are too lazy to learn it?

You are getting this shit from me, because if you can learn Latin - and you clearly have, - you can certainly master algebra.

Yet somehow, you not only think that such woeful ignorance is acceptable, but you are actually cranky that someone would tell you that being an illiterate on the level of barely being able to manage a see spot run book is not OK.

I once did know algebra, Ludwig. And trigonometry, and I had to pass courses in them to get out of high school.

They were not my thing. I have an artist for a mother and a scientist for a father. Her eyes glaze over when he talks equations, and his do when she talks color schemes.

I inherited his face and her brain.

The chances that I will ever need anything for basic life beyond basic math are close to zero, and if I do, I have a scientific calculator on my iPhone.

But, since you equate your particular kind of brain with the kind of brain we need to survive and thrive and beat AGW, I am persona non grata in your fantasy baseball version of Life As It Ought To Be.

Glad I am, very, that you're not running things.

172 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:52:38pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I, for one, welcome our adorable woodland overlords.

Not me. Sending this guy to the Discovery Channel's building was the first salvo in declaring War On America (tm). They Hate Our Freedoms (tm). If we allow even one squirrel to run free after this, then we're just asking to be killed en masse by their madness.

173 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:53:09pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

I'm an ass, I know.

I'm working on it.

174 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:53:13pm

re: #162 windsagio

GO up and read the lead post.

already did, have a couple posts on the subject in the previous topic. I stand by what I said and I think a lot of people here are applying a double standard here.

also you might be interested to learn anti-immigration views can be held by leftist-nationalist politicians as well. I'll concede that's a european thing, though.

175 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:53:49pm

He had to have been a right winger. He had a handgun.

/////////////////////////

176 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:53:57pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

I'm always amazed when someone gladly wallows in their own ignorance.

I suspect you're exaggerating tho', trying to work LVQ over for some bizarre reason.

177 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:53:59pm

re: #173 Racer X

I'm an ass, I know.

I'm working on it.

Good to hear.
So am I, jerk.
:)

178 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:54:06pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I, for one, welcome our adorable woodland overlords.

Well . . .
You can come get all the of course, the squirrels, you want outta my trees.

179 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:54:08pm

Is LVQ calling for Algebrocracy now...?

180 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:54:42pm

re: #179 elbruce

These arguments get so convoluted >>

181 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:56:02pm

re: #165 HoosierHoops

All algebra is equalizing the equation...It's pure math.. I loved DA and hated Trig...



Heh, me too...loved algebra and calculus, hated geometry and trig...

182 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:56:08pm

re: #146 LudwigVanQuixote

If so, it is only because of your laziness. If you can master Latin you can master algebra.

You get no pity for being able to learn, but too lazy to do so.

Fuck you. I have enough books to read. You don't get to choose what makes a person literate.

And that drives you near mad.

If some of your recent posts had been read by the Discovery bomber the day before he did this, he would have taken them as inspiration.

Chew on that. And then get back to me with the maxillary pounds/sq. inch data, in algebraic notation.

183 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:56:14pm

Can I add to the list of things on the test you must pass in order to vote?

184 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:57:01pm

re: #183 Racer X

And the wolves begin to circle...

185 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:57:35pm

re: #165 HoosierHoops

How can you possibly be proud of not knowing algebra?

It isn't even math on the level of writing sentences. It's the equivalent of grammar. To make a literary analogy, it isn't like asking if someone knows the difference between John Donne and Shakespeare, it is more like asking if they can read.

This is mathematics that is a good ten centuries old. It is hardly cutting edge.
All algebra is equalizing the equation...It's pure math.. I loved DA and hated Trig...
To speak of ideas, policies, politics and influences is a world much deeper...
Hi Ludwig!

Hey Hoops!

DA?

what is DA?

Trig is just an extension of Algebra.

I think to make a linguistic analogy,

Basic arithmetic is like learning to spell. It is done by rote.

Algebra and plane geometry are a form of grammar and vocabulary - only the rules are not arbitrary.

Trig and pre-calculus are more or less a sort of advanced grammar - like how to properly use a semi-colon.

The first time people make grown up sentences is in calculus and linear algebra.

186 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:57:41pm

re: #183 Racer X

Can I add to the list of things on the test you must pass in order to vote?

Fuck algerbra.
(letters=numbers....wtf?)
I think you should be literate in LOL cat.

187 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:57:54pm

More proof!

“I saw him at least once a month,” the employee said on Wednesday. “He would pay homeless people to help hold his placard.”

Clearly this identifies him as an entrepreneur and a reader of Adam Smith. He had a small business that employed homeless people to hold his sign.

You know who else owns small businesses?

//

188 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:58:19pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

He was probably not seriously so much about hating immigrants as he was about hating humans for what they've done to the gorillas, the squirrels, and the froggies.

There is a strong current of human-hatred among many self-professed eco-fanatics, most of whom would self-identify as progressive-left, as well.

They must claim him as their own.

Yep..... check these guys out.

189 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:58:35pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

True, true. I do easily concede that people act like douchers with the anoyomity the internet offers and by anoyomity I mean the ability to say assholish stuff without having to worry about getting smacked.

QFT

190 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:59:14pm

What I'm curious from all the math fans here is how did you guys stay interested in it? I'll admit I enjoyed math in elementary school but man did I ever sour on it in middle school. I mean don't get me wrong, I understand its relevance to our lives but I can't get in to it. I only really like math for sports statistics or using probablity theory for gambling which is how I managed to stay somewhat interested in college math. I guess I'm biased against math since I'm a history major and english minor.

191 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:59:26pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

He was probably not seriously so much about hating immigrants as he was about hating humans for what they've done to the gorillas, the squirrels, and the froggies.

There is a strong current of human-hatred among many self-professed eco-fanatics, most of whom would self-identify as progressive-left, as well.

They must claim him as their own.

Sure. But you know who else hated humans?

//

192 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:59:34pm

I know a guy who read Ishmael too many times and got kinda weird.

It's a book about a guy who gets lessons on life from a psychic elephant IIRC.

193 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:00:03pm

re: #184 windsagio

And the wolves begin to circle...

*hands windy a tissue*

194 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:00:04pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

What I'm curious from all the math fans here is how did you guys stay interested in it? I'll admit I enjoyed math in elementary school but man did I ever sour on it in middle school. I mean don't get me wrong, I understand its relevance to our lives but I can't get in to it. I only really like math for sports statistics or using probablity theory for gambling which is how I managed to stay somewhat interested in college math. I guess I'm biased against math since I'm a history major and english minor.

My mother once told me (we went to school together, long embarassing story) that she felt like Calculus was proof of God. It just works too well!

195 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:00:38pm

re: #193 Racer X

Thanks :D

People tend to dislike LVQ tho, and so they wanna jump in when he makes a slip >>

196 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:00:45pm

re: #185 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey Hoops!

DA?

what is DA?

Trig is just an extension of Algebra.

I think to make a linguistic analogy,

Basic arithmetic is like learning to spell. It is done by rote.

Algebra and plane geometry are a form of grammar and vocabulary - only the rules are not arbitrary.

Trig and pre-calculus are more or less a sort of advanced grammar - like how to properly use a semi-colon.

The first time people make grown up sentences is in calculus and linear algebra.

Dimensional analysis ...

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:01:02pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

Not Muslim :)
I know you said atheist but that doesn't take away from the fact that I saw Freepers saying the Muslim Obama would implement Sharia Law and legalizing gay marriage.

Well, which is it? Implement Sharia or legalize gay marriage? It's hard to imagine that he wants to do BOTH.

198 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:01:13pm

re: #183 Racer X

Can I add to the list of things on the test you must pass in order to vote?

Please do. Let's come up with an LGF list or curriculum you need to pass in order to be a Smart Person.

199 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:01:16pm

re: #37 Aceofwhat?

apologies if someone posted this earlier, but apparently this isn't his first episode at the Discovery Channel headquarters.

[Link: www.myfoxdfw.com...]

Supposedly after the 2008 arrest, he was ordered to undergo treatment but was never held to it...although my only source for that right now is TMZ, so i'll look for a more credible link.

my local news also referenced a 2008 arrest for disturbing the peace at the discovery building. he got six months with six months suspended.

200 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:01:37pm

re: #108 Obdicut

The thing is, Malthus was kind of a libertarian. He preferred private charity to public welfare, and saw welfare as propagating the misery of the underclass by increasing the population unsustainably.

If he gets painted as 'left-wing' I'm going to laugh.

"God, in his infinite mercy, will give us war and famine to thin out the masses."
- Archie Bunker

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:01:51pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

Ludwig just realized that under his political scheme, I am unqualified to vote.

I haz a sad.

Me too. Don't worry about it, we'll just write scathing political satire.

My husband could vote, but he won't bother.

202 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:08pm

re: #184 windsagio

And the wolves begin to circle...

rightly so. we ought not invalidate each others' opinions on certain subjects because we perceive the poster to lack whatever scholarly achievement we summarily deem to be the minimum standard for participation.

203 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:15pm

math people are smug....

screw you people who get it....
*weeps*

204 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:27pm

re: #176 windsagio

I'm always amazed when someone gladly wallows in their own ignorance.

I suspect you're exaggerating tho', trying to work LVQ over for some bizarre reason.

sorry but I don't see how he's wallowing in ignorance.
I took two years of electrical engineering at university before switching over to law, and to be honest I'm afraid in ten years time I'll have forgotten most of the mathematical skills I learned there. there's just no real application for them in most of what I will go on to do.

now for someone who's not especially talented in the more exact sciences I can very well understand algebra is not high on the list of useful skills, and I think a lot of scholars can function brilliantly without a smidge of skill in that department.

cultural learning is just different - noone can evade society, everyone touches upon culture, uses it in one way or another. sorry, exact sciences are for those who dedicate their life to it, not something everyone should know as much as possible of.

(though I'm very glad for much of the physics I've learned, I'm sure it will help me in many hobbies I might take up further along the road. but that's me, and theres plenty hobbies and activities that do not require such knowledge).

would you honestly say someone is so much poorer for not knowing math at a high level as for not being culturally well educated?

205 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:29pm

re: #188 Mr Pancakes

Yep... check these guys out.

Woops... late to the game, I should have read the whole thread first.

206 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:30pm

re: #155 Racer X

When I first heard of this incident, I thought 'I sure hope LVQ is posting on LGF, and not MIA'. Just for an instant mind you. Before I knew any facts. Sorry. Am I the only one?

re: #182 Cato the Elder

Fuck you. I have enough books to read. You don't get to choose what makes a person literate.

And that drives you near mad.

If some of your recent posts had been read by the Discovery bomber the day before he did this, he would have taken them as inspiration.

Chew on that. And then get back to me with the maxillary pounds/sq. inch data, in algebraic notation.

Don't forget equal downdinging. Not by me. The truth often hurts.

207 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:02:58pm

re: #203 webevintage

math people are smug...

screw you people who get it...
*weeps*

thats how i feel about cat people.............

208 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:03:02pm

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

209 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:03:05pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, which is it? Implement Sharia or legalize gay marriage? It's hard to imagine that he wants to do BOTH.

You're asking me to make sense of freeperspeak SFZ. No way in hell can I do that..............unless I had a beer and some whiskey.

210 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:03:31pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

re: #208 Varek Raith

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

That's not a bug!

//Nanotech

/

211 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:03:47pm

re: #195 windsagio

Thanks :D

People tend to dislike LVQ tho, and so they wanna jump in when he makes a slip >>

the haughty reap what they sow, my friend.

212 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:04:48pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

Describe the angle of incidence and the impact on your coffee in terms of mass and velocity.

Right now.

Or else you don't get to vote next time.

213 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:05:19pm

re: #203 webevintage

math people are smug...

screw you people who get it...
*weeps*

I like to play three-dimensional chess while performing differential equations in my head and composing music for the lute.

/

214 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:05:22pm

Math question:

(I don't recall doing this in school, but I liked this problem when I saw it. So tidy.)

What is 16 to the 3/4 power?

215 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:05:23pm

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have some rough edges :p

That being said, this has more to do with group dynamics than with anything else.

216 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:05:23pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

protein

217 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:05:31pm

re: #198 Cato the Elder

Please do. Let's come up with an LGF list or curriculum you need to pass in order to be a Smart Person.

I'm starting to wonder if John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were qualified to vote, much less run this country.

218 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:06:07pm

re: #210 Gus 802

re: #208 Varek Raith

That's not a bug!

//Nanotech

/

Nah..it's not a bug it's a feature!

219 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:06:30pm

re: #203 webevintage

math people are smug...

screw you people who get it...
*weeps*

I've always been really bad at math. Those flash cards they used to teach kids math always stressed me out terribly. I can do some basic math but even with the aid of a calculator it's a real struggle for me.

220 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:06:48pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

I once did know algebra, Ludwig. And trigonometry, and I had to pass courses in them to get out of high school.

They were not my thing. I have an artist for a mother and a scientist for a father. Her eyes glaze over when he talks equations, and his do when she talks color schemes.

I inherited his face and her brain.

The chances that I will ever need anything for basic life beyond basic math are close to zero, and if I do, I have a scientific calculator on my iPhone.

But, since you equate your particular kind of brain with the kind of brain we need to survive and thrive and beat AGW, I am persona non grata in your fantasy baseball version of Life As It Ought To Be.

Glad I am, very, that you're not running things.

First of all Cato, saying that I would not be opposed to a fairly administered examination that did not discriminate against race or creed, is hardly calling for it to be implemented.

Second of all, if it were, and you cared enough to vote, you would and could l;earn it again.

Third of all, if you are so proud that you can't look at an expression like (x^2-9) and instantly tell me the two roots, you are only marking yourself as the worst sort of lazy intellect rationalizing his ignorance, and no Cato, people who are that accepting of their own laziness do not have the moral qualification, let alone the intellectual qualification to address complex issues of government.

And I am actually being serious here. Basic, and I do mean basic micro economics rests on understanding a Volterra Predator Prey curve. I'll bet you have never even heard of that. That does not make you a bad person, but where do you get off thinking you can say anything about what a good economic policy might be. For the record, understanding that requires calculus - its a bit more advanced than algebra.

In fact, how do you calculate interest in your finances? How do you know if you've paid enough taxes? How do you know if a loan or a mortgage is a good deal without this knowledge? It is certain that bakers and credit card companies feed off of and enrich themselves on the rampant and acceptable ignorance of most Americans.

And what about science? You periodically crank at me about things I write about AGW. Yet, you have just proudly proclaimed that you are in no position whatsoever to even grasp the most basic principles of it - and that more importantly, you have the sort of woefully lazy intellect that will proudly not look into them, but just as proudly spout a demonstrably meaningless opinion of it.

I suppose actually being educated is too much for some old Romans.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:06:52pm

re: #158 ThomasLite

I don't think anyone is denying the guy was bat shit insane.
however if some idiot wingnut does something crazy he's still a wingnut.
don't see why that shouldn't count for the moonbat population.

This guy--clearly a lot of influence by the less stable reaches of the ecological left. Other stuff too, but no one is ideologically completely sound.

I won't claim him because I don't claim the less stable reaches of anything.

222 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:07:15pm

re: #195 windsagio

Thanks :D

People tend to dislike LVQ tho, and so they wanna jump in when he makes a slip >>

I like LVQ. Dude is smart as hell.

223 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:07:33pm

re: #215 windsagio

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have some rough edges :p

That being said, this has more to do with group dynamics than with anything else.

sometimes it does. not this time, imho. case by case, you know;)

224 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:07:35pm

Tomorrow Glenn Beck will get to the root cause: Henry David Thoreau.

225 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:07:38pm

re: #214 EmmmieG

Math question:

(I don't recall doing this in school, but I liked this problem when I saw it. So tidy.)

What is 16 to the 3/4 power?

see...smug....

;-)

226 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #217 JasonA

I'm starting to wonder if John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were qualified to vote, much less run this country.

I'd be more inclined to have a current events quiz than a math test.

227 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:08:13pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Fucking bug just flew into my coffee!
$%#@$

Spit it out! Spit it out!

228 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:08:27pm

re: #225 webevintage

see...smug...

;-)

I'm married to a Caltech graduate. I'm not smug about my math understanding at all. I just liked that problem.

229 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:09:04pm

re: #220 LudwigVanQuixote

First of all Cato, saying that I would not be opposed to a fairly administered examination that did not discriminate against race or creed, is hardly calling for it to be implemented.

Second of all, if it were, and you cared enough to vote, you would and could l;earn it again.

Third of all, if you are so proud that you can't look at an expression like (x^2-9) and instantly tell me the two roots, you are only marking yourself as the worst sort of lazy intellect rationalizing his ignorance, and no Cato, people who are that accepting of their own laziness do not have the moral qualification, let alone the intellectual qualification to address complex issues of government.

And I am actually being serious here. Basic, and I do mean basic micro economics rests on understanding a Volterra Predator Prey curve. I'll bet you have never even heard of that. That does not make you a bad person, but where do you get off thinking you can say anything about what a good economic policy might be. For the record, understanding that requires calculus - its a bit more advanced than algebra.

In fact, how do you calculate interest in your finances? How do you know if you've paid enough taxes? How do you know if a loan or a mortgage is a good deal without this knowledge? It is certain that bakers and credit card companies feed off of and enrich themselves on the rampant and acceptable ignorance of most Americans.

And what about science? You periodically crank at me about things I write about AGW. Yet, you have just proudly proclaimed that you are in no position whatsoever to even grasp the most basic principles of it - and that more importantly, you have the sort of woefully lazy intellect that will proudly not look into them, but just as proudly spout a demonstrably meaningless opinion of it.

I suppose actually being educated is too much for some old Romans.

We don't care about how educated you are, being a condescending asshole on the other hand....

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:09:14pm

re: #175 Gus 802

He had to have been a right winger. He had a handgun.

///

Given the number of privately owned guns in this country, lefties have to have some of them.

Then there's my father, a bleeding-heart social justice Democrat with a WWII fetish, who is armed to the teeth. Remind me to tell you all about the last time my parents moved.

231 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:09:14pm

Ooh. Dude went splodey when they shot him.

232 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:09:15pm

re: #226 PT Barnum

I'd be more inclined to have a current events quiz than a math test.

Then people would demand that the winner of American Idol be on the questions sheet :D> I'm a rare type, I do well in sports/pop culture trivia and current events. That makes me something that I can't decide what it is called.

233 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:09:35pm

re: #222 Racer X

I like LVQ. Dude is smart as hell.

I do too.
He is just wrong on this occasion.

234 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:10:12pm

re: #227 Racer X

Spit it out! Spit it out!

You probably should have not said anything at all.


An epicure dining at Crewe
Found a very large bug in his stew.
Said the waiter, "Don't shout
And wave it about,
Or the rest will be wanting one too."

235 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:10:32pm

This nut may have been influenced by environmental extremist groups like ELF but the no mainstream lefty pundit is advocating for environmental terrorist groups. Glenn Beck's influence on his followers is a very different thing.

236 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:10:34pm

re: #233 webevintage

I do too.
He is just wrong on this occasion.

Smart does not equal always right.

237 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:10:35pm

There's a great Sara Palin piece in Vanity Faire:

[Link: www.vanityfair.com...]

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:05pm

re: #178 reine.de.tout

Well . . .
You can come get all the of course, the squirrels, you want outta my trees.

We got 'em locally. They like to get up on the walkways around the courtyard of our building, and then freak out when they realize you're going to walk by them, and they're too high up to jump.

You'd think, after a while, they would get the picture.

They also rove all over town running on the overhead wires.

Menlo Park, CA, south of us, is home to the rare black squirrels. My husband gives them a black power salute whenever we see one.

239 Gus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:07pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

Given the number of privately owned guns in this country, lefties have to have some of them.

Then there's my father, a bleeding-heart social justice Democrat with a WWII fetish, who is armed to the teeth. Remind me to tell you all about the last time my parents moved.

Yep. Just playing with stereotypes.

240 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:16pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Then people would demand that the winner of American Idol be on the questions sheet :D> I'm a rare type, I do well in sports/pop culture trivia and current events. That makes me something that I can't decide what it is called.

I would start with the book Cultural Literacy, but then I couldn't pass, so maybe I'll let it go.

241 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:23pm

re: #236 Racer X

Smart does not equal always right.

Chomsky? Is that you?

;)

242 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:42pm

I dropped out of the "gifted" program in school because the snotty elitists were snotty (and elitist). I went back to my nice friends in regular class. That's why I don't know algebra.

It wasn't a smart decision, but I learned a lot anyway.

243 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:11:52pm

re: #237 Conservative Moonbat

There's a great Sara Palin piece in Vanity Faire:

[Link: www.vanityfair.com...]

Read it earlier. Very very good, although it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know/suspect.

244 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:12:18pm

re: #182 Cato the Elder

Fuck you. I have enough books to read. You don't get to choose what makes a person literate.

On the contrary, those nations that will quickly overtake us technologically understand that mathematics is part of literacy.

And that drives you near mad.

No, willful ignorance that is proud of being ignorant annoys me. What really pisses me off though, is when ignorant blow hards have the arrogance to not only think that their ignorance is equal to knowledge, but speak as if their words have merit, and expect them to be given equal weight as actual knowledge..

If some of your recent posts had been read by the Discovery bomber the day before he did this, he would have taken them as inspiration.

No not really, I am too much about preserving human dignity.

Chew on that. And then get back to me with the maxillary pounds/sq. inch data, in algebraic notation.

I did, and I spat it out, though the jibe at algebraic notation and units was Palin grade ignorant. Perhaps, you can join her now in castigating fruit fly research in Paris France. After all, you seem quite proud that you would understand it as much as she does.

245 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:12:21pm

re: #242 wrenchwench

They didn't teach the normal kids algebra?!

Calculus I'd get, but...

246 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:12:35pm

re: #242 wrenchwench

I dropped out of the "gifted" program in school because the snotty elitists were snotty (and elitist). I went back to my nice friends in regular class. That's why I don't know algebra.

It wasn't a smart decision, but I learned a lot anyway.

It's that Mensa thing.

247 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:12:37pm

re: #222 Racer X

I like LVQ. Dude is smart as hell.

Thank you racer.

248 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:13:36pm

re: #184 windsagio

And the wolves begin to circle...

They're only wolves if they're after a lamb you care about. Otherwise, enjoy the feast.

249 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:13:39pm

re: #210 Gus 802

re: #208 Varek Raith

That's not a bug!

//Nanotech

/


it's not a bug - it's a feature ;-)

250 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:14:01pm

re: #248 Silvergirl

I'm glad you still love me after all these months :D

251 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:14:25pm

re: #249 wozzablog

it's not a bug - it's a feature ;-)

Beat ya to it..see 218

252 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:14:29pm

re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote

Piss off, mathocrat.

253 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:14:52pm

alrighty, i'm going to go vary the cotangents of my joints in such a fashion as to raise and lower metal bars and plates. bbl, fellow smartypants!

254 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:15:07pm

re: #245 windsagio

They didn't teach the normal kids algebra?!

Calculus I'd get, but...

It was a chain-of-events kind of thing....and they shouldn't have let me drop out of algebra, but they did. And I had to teach myself quadratic equations in college....

255 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:15:19pm

re: #250 windsagio

I'm glad you still love me after all these months :D

It's been a busy summer, but it's still you and me, windsagio. You and me.

256 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:16:14pm

re: #246 PT Barnum

It's that Mensa thing.

I have a brother and some other relatives who are actually office-holders in Mensa.

257 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:17:15pm

re: #251 PT Barnum

Beat ya to it..see 218

doh.

i really need to get off facebook in the other tab.

258 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:17:30pm

re: #256 wrenchwench

I have a brother and some other relatives who are actually office-holders in Mensa.

Mensa in Spanish means stupid....... go figure.

259 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:17:31pm

re: #217 JasonA

I'm starting to wonder if John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were qualified to vote, much less run this country.

Well they both knew a lot more than Algebra. They knew Calculus. They also spoke multiple languages, were not only conversant with , but had a certain mastery of the science of their times, and held law degrees.

Part of the reason that the Constitution, and the founding principles of America were so amazing was that it was put together by such men.

The politicians we have today are drooling morons in comparison for the most part.

260 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:17:39pm

re: #248 Silvergirl

They're only wolves if they're after a lamb you care about. Otherwise, enjoy the feast.

I should add, I don't feel much need to defend ludwig in general, last time he even mentioned me it was to piss in my face :p

Still, he's getting the hell framed out of him by a guy whose primary goal is just to make him look bad. That's messed up.

261 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:17:57pm

re: #256 wrenchwench

I have a brother and some other relatives who are actually office-holders in Mensa.

The problem with Mensa is that people seem to have a superiority complex or at least the desire to prove they are the smartest.

There are more ways than one to measure intelligence. Knowing when to shut the fuck up is one of them.

262 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:18:31pm

I haven't seen this mentioned in news reports....
Video is James Lee throwing money in front of the Discovery building in an earlier incident

Liveleak Video

Is this real?

263 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:18:43pm

re: #256 wrenchwench

I have a brother and some other relatives who are actually office-holders in Mensa.

Mensa is one group I have no interest in joining.

DAR is the other one.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of organizations I wouldn't join, beginning with Illinois Nazis, these are two with snob factors that turn me off.

264 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:19:26pm

re: #217 JasonA

I'm starting to wonder if John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were qualified to vote, much less run this country.

Of course they were unqualifited to vote or hold high office, as they wern't born in the United States.
///

265 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:19:27pm

re: #233 webevintage

I do too.
He is just wrong on this occasion.

You have every right to disagree with me. I don't claim to be perfect.

I particularly don't claim that my political musings are perfect. However, I do feel that much of the anger at what I said is coming from taking what I am writing out of context.

266 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:20:17pm

There are so many different types of intelligence and gifts of knowledge. No one has expertise in every area, nor should we. To say that if one is not an expert in some discipline or another is "willfully ignorant" or toss some other such insult, is arrogant and displays a willful ignorance in itself, an ignorance of human nature and intelligence.

267 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:20:26pm

re: #263 EmmmieG

Mensa is one group I have no interest in joining.

DAR is the other one.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of organizations I wouldn't join, beginning with Illinois Nazis, these are two with snob factors that turn me off.

Do they hand out deeds to ivory towers?
If not, yeah, to hell with 'em!

268 blueraven  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:20:42pm

LVQ, I say this as someone who normally enjoys your posting here. But what you have been writing the past few days...I respectfully suggest you should have a long sit down with yourself and re-think your position.

What you espouse reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut Jr futuristic novel where only the elites; engineers and scientist are considered important and are allowed to thrive. (well, except for sports figures)

People come in all shapes, sizes and degrees. Some are right brained and some are left. We need math and science, but we also need art and literature. We need mechanics and plumbers and carpenters too. Each and every one is created equal under God and under the Constitution of the United States of America. And as such deserve all the rights and privileges therein.

269 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:20:51pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I haven't seen this mentioned in news reports...
Video is James Lee throwing money in front of the Discovery building in an earlier incident

[Video]Is this real?

It appears to be real. At least one of the networks ran the video a short while ago,

270 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:21:08pm

re: #260 windsagio

I should add, I don't feel much need to defend ludwig in general, last time he even mentioned me it was to piss in my face :p

Still, he's getting the hell framed out of him by a guy whose primary goal is just to make him look bad. That's messed up.

A guy? Cato? He makes everybody look bad at one time or another. Ludwig? He'll piss in anyone's face who crosses his belief system.

271 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:21:26pm

Could Obama, given a pop quiz, solve a differential equation using the grand language of the calculus?

Could Al Gore work out the algorithms?

Could Jimmy Carter do the geometry needed to make a one-state solution work in I/P? (Well, having once been a nukehead, he probably could, but only if you let him use nukes.)

Seems a lot of people who are in power, not just the ones who voted them in, are unqualified to be there, per the Ludwig Test.

272 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:21:40pm

re: #263 EmmmieG

Daughters of the Confederacy is 'good' too >>

273 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:22:12pm

re: #256 wrenchwench

I have a brother and some other relatives who are actually office-holders in Mensa.

I can spell MENSA.

Can I join?

274 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:22:46pm

re: #265 LudwigVanQuixote

You have every right to disagree with me. I don't claim to be perfect.

I particularly don't claim that my political musings are perfect. However, I do feel that much of the anger at what I said is coming from taking what I am writing out of context.

I am an anti-elitist. I haven't followed all your posts about qualifications for voting, so I haven't engaged you directly about it, but I don't think I'd even require the ability to read. I'd allow people to take an interpreter in the booth with them, same as they do for some other disabilities.

275 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:22:54pm

Hmmm.
If I use a python script to solve an algebra problem...
Does that count???
:)

276 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:23:00pm

re: #263 EmmmieG

Mensa is one group I have no interest in joining.

DAR is the other one.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of organizations I wouldn't join, beginning with Illinois Nazis, these are two with snob factors that turn me off.

DAR turned me down too.

277 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:23:12pm

re: #265 LudwigVanQuixote

and intentionally, at that.

278 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:23:18pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

Do they hand out deeds to ivory towers?
If not, yeah, to hell with 'em!

You? You do not want an ivory tower. You want a titanium tower with state of the art laser blasters, a really good defensive alarm, a good lab with radiactivity shield, a custom entertainment room, fully stocked kitchen, and a pond for the froggies.

Unless I've got this wrong.

279 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:23:56pm

re: #273 researchok

I can spell MENSA.

Can I join?

I know one of the test-givers. I'll see what she'll take as a bribe.

280 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:02pm

Mensa means "table" in Latin.

Appropriately enough. Mostly they sit around the table and try to outboast each other about how young they were when they first solved Rubik's cube.

They all need to get laid.

281 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:11pm

re: #276 researchok

DAR turned me down too.

They wouldn't turn me down. I've never applied. I see no reason to.

282 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:11pm

re: #275 Varek Raith

Hmmm.
If I use a python script to solve an algebra problem...
Does that count???
:)

Once I learned to program, I used programming to teach myself equations, as it required me to break the problem down in discreet enough chunks that I could actually understand it.

283 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:36pm

I might just join DENSA. I'll bet they have more fun.

284 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:41pm

gotta go...pizzas here.

285 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:43pm

JJ Lee's Myspace

286 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:49pm

re: #278 EmmmieG

You? You do not want an ivory tower. You want a titanium tower with state of the art laser blasters, a really good defensive alarm, a good lab with radiactivity shield, a custom entertainment room, fully stocked kitchen, and a pond for the froggies.

Unless I've got this wrong.

Nailed it..........

287 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:24:59pm

re: #283 EmmmieG

I might just join DENSA. I'll bet they have more fun.

That's good!

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Then people would demand that the winner of American Idol be on the questions sheet :D> I'm a rare type, I do well in sports/pop culture trivia and current events. That makes me something that I can't decide what it is called.

Socially tuned-in?

289 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:25:42pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

Mensa means "table" in Latin.

Appropriately enough. Mostly they sit around the table and try to outboast each other about how young they were when they first solved Rubik's cube.

They all need to get laid.

They join the club so they can find someone with whom to achieve that goal. Seriously.

290 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:25:49pm

There's kinda creepy subtext developing in this thread btw; 'damn smart people!'

I personally wish I was smarter than I am >>

291 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:25:55pm

re: #182 Cato the Elder

If some of your recent posts had been read by the Discovery bomber the day before he did this, he would have taken them as inspiration.


There are people out on the Internets claiming that all of the world leaders are lizard aliens who want to eat us. There's Nature's Harmonic Time Cube. Given the wide menu of far more interesting crazy available for crazy people to use as inspiration, I hardly think that LVQ's Algebrocracy scheme is going to be responsible for any deaths.

292 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:26:04pm

By the way -- I'm not going to agree that all incidents like this are non-political. When that weirdo killed a guard at the Holocaust Museum in DC, that was a very clear case of violence motivated by extreme right wing ideology. And there are many other recent cases in which the motivation was very clear.

In this case, the only clear motivation is lunacy.

And it's not a "double standard" to say that. It's reality. It's an absurd and illogical simplification to say that because I won't assign this guy to the left wing, that means I'm promoting a double standard by assigning other cases to the right wing.

293 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:26:29pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

Mensa means "table" in Latin.

Appropriately enough. Mostly they sit around the table and try to outboast each other about how young they were when they first solved Rubik's cube.

They all need to get laid.

That is bullshit. If you'd ever been to a Mensa convention, you'd know that getting laid is not a problem with them.

294 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:27:01pm

re: #229 PT Barnum

We don't care about how educated you are, being a condescending asshole on the other hand...

Ahh and here we have the raw nerve I hit exposed at its core.

This is not about me being smart.

Do you think that algebra is hard or advanced? Do you really think that makes someone smart? You have got to be kidding me.

Actual intellectual elitism would require that everyone pass a battery of exams on the level of an AP exam in pretty much all basic disciplines, coupled with mathematics through Complex Analysis and Linear Algebra, Organic Chemistry and basic Quantum Mechanics.

I think the world would be better if people actually knew algebra and rather than seeing it as something to get defensive about not knowing, would see it with shame shame as not being able to read.

Yet here we have a bunch of people who are feeling their special snow-flakeness threatened when they are told that sorry no, there is nothing to be proud of if you can't beat a clever 5th grader's math skills. But that is OK, that is exactly how the credit card companies and the banks rape you.

It is your right to proudly stand up for their right to rape you. It is after all a sign of your equal intelligence to everyone else and reason to believe that your expertise has merit in the place of actual knowledge.

295 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:27:31pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

I've always been really bad at math. Those flash cards they used to teach kids math always stressed me out terribly. I can do some basic math but even with the aid of a calculator it's a real struggle for me.

then no vote for you!
/

296 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:28:09pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

yer really not helping man :p

297 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:28:16pm

re: #265 LudwigVanQuixote

You have every right to disagree with me. I don't claim to be perfect.

I particularly don't claim that my political musings are perfect. However, I do feel that much of the anger at what I said is coming from taking what I am writing out of context.

You almost got it right.....your mistake was calling for the electorate to be tested, and forgetting to include politicians amongst those being tested.

298 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:28:19pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

Mostly they sit around the table and try to outboast each other about how young they were when they first solved Rubik's cube.


8th grade 1982, best time 1 minute 18 seconds.

I mean, since it came up and everything...

299 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:28:28pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

Socially tuned-in?

Yeah ironically enough for a quiet man such as myself.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:28:53pm

re: #242 wrenchwench

I dropped out of the "gifted" program in school because the snotty elitists were snotty (and elitist). I went back to my nice friends in regular class. That's why I don't know algebra.

It wasn't a smart decision, but I learned a lot anyway.

I was put in a Gifted and Talented program in the sixth grade. It was the worst damn year of my life. Bar none.

The kids were mean little so-and-sos, and looking back as an educator, I realize that part of the problem was that no distinction was being made between being academically bright and organizationally bright. I could understand advanced concepts (in the humanities), and read like hell, but see a big project through on my own because, after all, I was 'gifted'? Hell, no.

301 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:30:08pm

re: #290 windsagio

There's kinda creepy subtext developing in this thread btw; 'damn smart people!'

I personally wish I was smarter than I am >>

Although I am anti-elitism, I am also opposed to anti-science attitudes. And I will not forget that they went after people who wear glasses in Cambodia. Anti-elitism has its radical extremists, too.

302 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:30:26pm

speaking of smarts -

drinking that glorious glass of cab-sav while eating that double chocolate cheesecake while suffering with sinuses.............. yeah, not so much.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:30:40pm

re: #263 EmmmieG

Mensa is one group I have no interest in joining.

DAR is the other one.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of organizations I wouldn't join, beginning with Illinois Nazis, these are two with snob factors that turn me off.

I may be qualified to join the DAR, and have considered it, just because the thought of me in it seems hilarious.

Mensa doesn't hold any appeal, mainly because I can't figure out what they do besides be smart in groups. Which, harkening back to my Gifted and Talented days, doesn't appeal so much.

304 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:30:56pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

My apathy towards school drove my teachers and parents nuts.
Once I understood the concepts, I didn't bother with the work.

305 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:31:03pm

re: #301 wrenchwench

And once again the problem is radical extremism of some stripe or another:D

I Like the cut of your jib!!!

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:31:40pm

re: #272 windsagio

Daughters of the Confederacy is 'good' too >>

I don't know if I'm qualified for that. Not planning to join, regardless.

307 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:31:53pm

From HuffPo:

A different official, who spoke on condition of anonymity for the same reason, said Lee previously protested outside the building, where he was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct in February 2008, according to court records.

Police reports indicate he paid homeless people to join his protest and carry signs outside the building. He gave one individual $1,000 for what he considered a prize winning essay.

At one point, a crowd of more than 100 people gathered around Lee, 43, who referred to money as "just trash" and began throwing fistfuls of it into the air.

Clear proof that this was a moonbat. A right winger would never give money to poor people. Or anybody, for that matter.

///

308 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:31:57pm

re: #305 windsagio

And once again the problem is radical extremism of some stripe or another:D

I Like the cut of your jib!!!

Anti-extremist...
Extremist!

309 Silvergirl  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:32:10pm

re: #265 LudwigVanQuixote

You have every right to disagree with me. I don't claim to be perfect.

I particularly don't claim that my political musings are perfect. However, I do feel that much of the anger at what I said is coming from taking what I am writing out of context.

When a person feels misunderstood time after time, and misunderstood by many people, what then? Time to pause and reflect? You so often fall back on readers taking what you've written out of context. I haven't been around solidly for weeks, but that was an oft repeated blames--that others are just not careful readers. Time to look at the writing?

310 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:32:22pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I was put in a Gifted and Talented program in the sixth grade. It was the worst damn year of my life. Bar none.

The kids were mean little so-and-sos, and looking back as an educator, I realize that part of the problem was that no distinction was being made between being academically bright and organizationally bright. I could understand advanced concepts (in the humanities), and read like hell, but see a big project through on my own because, after all, I was 'gifted'? Hell, no.

It was seventh grade for me. We were to pick a country and write a major paper on it. I had no idea how to write a major paper, and I picked Yugoslavia. Poor kid.

311 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I was put in a Gifted and Talented program in the sixth grade. It was the worst damn year of my life. Bar none.

The kids were mean little so-and-sos, and looking back as an educator, I realize that part of the problem was that no distinction was being made between being academically bright and organizationally bright. I could understand advanced concepts (in the humanities), and read like hell, but see a big project through on my own because, after all, I was 'gifted'? Hell, no.

I've always believed that there are multiple talents that can help a person succeed.

For example, the ability to work with people is actually priceless, if combined with a reasonable intelligence and some organization.

We could come up with categories all day:

Mechanics. Math. Verbal. Physical. Creativity. Aesthetics. Music. Organization. Leadership.

312 darthstar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:32:44pm

Anchor, baby, anchor!

313 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:32:55pm

re: #293 allegro

That is bullshit. If you'd ever been to a Mensa convention, you'd know that getting laid is not a problem with them.

All right then! Sign me up!

[cough]

Will there be math?

314 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:33:22pm

laters all

315 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:33:40pm

re: #310 wrenchwench

It was seventh grade for me. We were to pick a country and write a major paper on it. I had no idea how to write a major paper, and I picked Yugoslavia. Poor kid.

If they failed to teach you to write a paper, it was their fault.

316 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:33:45pm

re: #268 blueraven

Each and every one is created equal under God and under the Constitution of the United States of America. And as such deserve all the rights and privileges therein.

Which is why the only just way to deal with people you think shouldn't be voting is not to restrict their rights, but to cancel them out by asserting your own:

Youtube Video

Really, watch the above - not only is it hilarious, it's like it was tailor-made for this very discussion :)

317 RexMundi  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:33:48pm

Thank you, Charles, for saying what I often think whenever I see something tragic like this happen. People were trying to make Seung-Hui Cho out to be may things as well--usually something that they detested--so they could lump them together and apply a guilt by association argument against them. The reality is Seung-Hui Cho was mentally disturbed and so is James Jay Lee.

318 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:34:16pm

re: #309 Silvergirl

When a person feels misunderstood time after time, and misunderstood by many people, what then? Time to pause and reflect? You so often fall back on readers taking what you've written out of context. I haven't been around solidly for weeks, but that was an oft repeated blames--that others are just not careful readers. Time to look at the writing?


Nonsense, the artsy-fartsy liberal-arts ability to communicate clearly doesn't factor in to the necessary disciplines that one should have in order to vote... /

319 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:34:27pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

I haven't seen this mentioned in news reports...
Video is James Lee throwing money in front of the Discovery building in an earlier incident

[Video]Is this real?

it is real, that's what he got arrested for in 2008, per the local news. disturbing the peace.

320 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:34:32pm

re: #268 blueraven

LVQ, I say this as someone who normally enjoys your posting here. But what you have been writing the past few days...I respectfully suggest you should have a long sit down with yourself and re-think your position.

What you espouse reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut Jr futuristic novel where only the elites; engineers and scientist are considered important and are allowed to thrive. (well, except for sports figures)

People come in all shapes, sizes and degrees. Some are right brained and some are left. We need math and science, but we also need art and literature. We need mechanics and plumbers and carpenters too. Each and every one is created equal under God and under the Constitution of the United States of America. And as such deserve all the rights and privileges therein.

But this is not what I am saying at all.

I want to lift all people up through real education. I want to do away with the arrogance that actually thinks being ignorant to a level that the average Chinese seven year old would laugh at Americans is somehow defensible.

Real decisions need to be made by sober analysis, and that is frankly beyond the capabilities of most people, not because they are too stupid, but to lazy and too entrenched in thinking that is OK.

There is nothing wrong with wanting people to achieve their potential rather than wallow in ignorance to the extent that it tears everything down.

I am not calling for all people to be scientists. I am not calling for all people to be engineers or concert musicians or Shakespeare grade geniuses. I am calling for people to recognize that they are not qualified to all things unless they actually take the time to gain basic competency.

As to people's moral worth, I make no statement at all. However, I utterly reject this "we all have an equal voice" crap.

Does your janitor have an equal voice to a surgeon on medical matters?

Do you really think that the talking head on Fox news has the same weight as a physicist on matters of physics?

Does just some twit at the bar who doesn't know who Robert E. Lee was have the same merit to talk about US policy as someone who could pass an actual highschool grade education?

Get real here.

I am not talking about keeping people back. I am talking about setting a bar and telling people they have a duty to reach it.

321 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:34:52pm

re: #313 Cato the Elder

All right then! Sign me up!

[cough]

Will there be math?

Unlikely. Unless you want to count the number of lagers you've consumed.

322 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:35:03pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

My apathy towards school drove my teachers and parents nuts.
Once I understood the concepts, I didn't bother with the work.

I was a solid B student. I understood what need to be done and did it. I would piss people off by doing a 5 week term paper in 3 days and getting a B and thinking nothing of it.

My senior year history final was great. People were turing in 30-40 pages of work to answer, I turned in 5 and got a-.

323 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:35:21pm

I hate Algebra. I failed Algebra.

I love Quantum Mechanics.

Go figure.

324 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:35:24pm

re: #297 Reginald Perrin

You almost got it right...your mistake was calling for the electorate to be tested, and forgetting to include politicians amongst those being tested.

Ohh believe me, to run for office, I would be all about a real examination.

325 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:35:42pm

re: #292 Charles

By the way -- I'm not going to agree that all incidents like this are non-political. When that weirdo killed a guard at the Holocaust Museum in DC, that was a very clear case of violence motivated by extreme right wing ideology. And there are many other recent cases in which the motivation was very clear.

In this case, the only clear motivation is lunacy.

And it's not a "double standard" to say that. It's reality. It's an absurd and illogical simplification to say that because I won't assign to this guy to the left wing, that means I'm promoting a double standard by assigning other cases to the right wing.

That's a good point.

When that whack job in the LA area attacked a nursery school/kindergarten, he too was motivated by right wing extreme ideologies.

The whack job that attacked the Jewish Center in Seattle on the other hand, was a nut job, as was the lunatic at LAX and his doppelganger at the Empire State Building in NYC.

The guys who wanted to bomb synagogues in NY were radical Islamist ideologues.

The animal rights people who blow up labs and commit violence or murder or threaten lab researchers. are as a rule, left wing extremists. The right to lifers who commit violence at abortion clinics or who kill abortion doctors are right wing ideologues.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:36:11pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

My apathy towards school drove my teachers and parents nuts.
Once I understood the concepts, I didn't bother with the work.

My husband swears he only passed advanced algebra in high school because on his second try he landed in the class where 90 percent of the grade was the tests. He didn't bother much with homework.

327 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:36:35pm

re: #320 LudwigVanQuixote

But this is not what I am saying at all.

I want to lift all people up through real education. I want to do away with the arrogance that actually thinks being ignorant to a level that the average Chinese seven year old would laugh at Americans is somehow defensible.

Real decisions need to be made by sober analysis, and that is frankly beyond the capabilities of most people, not because they are too stupid, but to lazy and too entrenched in thinking that is OK.

There is nothing wrong with wanting people to achieve their potential rather than wallow in ignorance to the extent that it tears everything down.

I am not calling for all people to be scientists. I am not calling for all people to be engineers or concert musicians or Shakespeare grade geniuses. I am calling for people to recognize that they are not qualified to all things unless they actually take the time to gain basic competency.

As to people's moral worth, I make no statement at all. However, I utterly reject this "we all have an equal voice" crap.

Does your janitor have an equal voice to a surgeon on medical matters?

Do you really think that the talking head on Fox news has the same weight as a physicist on matters of physics?

Does just some twit at the bar who doesn't know who Robert E. Lee was have the same merit to talk about US policy as someone who could pass an actual highschool grade education?

Get real here.

I am not talking about keeping people back. I am talking about setting a bar and telling people they have a duty to reach it.

Man... you'd have a tough time on Twitter.

328 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:36:53pm

Does anyone know if Lee was a child of an immigrant family?

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:36:59pm

re: #311 EmmmieG

I've always believed that there are multiple talents that can help a person succeed.

For example, the ability to work with people is actually priceless, if combined with a reasonable intelligence and some organization.

We could come up with categories all day:

Mechanics. Math. Verbal. Physical. Creativity. Aesthetics. Music. Organization. Leadership.

Multiple Intelligences: It's not just a good idea, it seems to be how people work.

330 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:37:06pm

re: #327 Mr Pancakes

Man... you'd have a tough time on Twitter.

OK that was funny :D

331 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:37:14pm

re: #323 Racer X

I hate Algebra. I failed Algebra.

I love Quantum Mechanics.

Go figure.

Algebra was pure evil.

Calculus and Trig I got down in days.

2 years of French, can't speak a word of it.

I slept thru Latin and still got an A.

332 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:37:16pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband swears he only passed advanced algebra in high school because on his second try he landed in the class where 90 percent of the grade was the tests. He didn't bother much with homework.

Sounds like me.
I'd ace the tests.
Said, "screw the rest of the work".

333 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:37:23pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

My apathy towards school drove my teachers and parents nuts.
Once I understood the concepts, I didn't bother with the work.

re: #322 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I was a solid B student. I understood what need to be done and did it. I would piss people off by doing a 5 week term paper in 3 days and getting a B and thinking nothing of it.

My senior year history final was great. People were turing in 30-40 pages of work to answer, I turned in 5 and got a-.

amen, yo. i pretty much sucked in school, but when i was really interested in something, i kicked ass in it. i'm pretty good at writing fairly decent papers last minute, too.

334 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:38:03pm

re: #328 Charles

Does anyone know if Lee was a child of an immigrant family?

Maybe he was an anchor baby.

335 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:38:22pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahh and here we have the raw nerve I hit exposed at its core.

This is not about me being smart.

Do you think that algebra is hard or advanced? Do you really think that makes someone smart? You have got to be kidding me.

Actual intellectual elitism would require that everyone pass a battery of exams on the level of an AP exam in pretty much all basic disciplines, coupled with mathematics through Complex Analysis and Linear Algebra, Organic Chemistry and basic Quantum Mechanics.

I think the world would be better if people actually knew algebra and rather than seeing it as something to get defensive about not knowing, would see it with shame shame as not being able to read.

Yet here we have a bunch of people who are feeling their special snow-flakeness threatened when they are told that sorry no, there is nothing to be proud of if you can't beat a clever 5th grader's math skills. But that is OK, that is exactly how the credit card companies and the banks rape you.

It is your right to proudly stand up for their right to rape you. It is after all a sign of your equal intelligence to everyone else and reason to believe that your expertise has merit in the place of actual knowledge.

Given what you've written here and in recent days, I think - this is just my personal opinion, mind you, and not in any way backed up by Statistics or Calculus or any other Holy Language - that you are in dire need of remedial courses in Classical Rhetoric.

In fact, until you pass with flying colors, I shall not allow you to vote in my widdle utopia.

336 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:38:29pm

re: #331 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Algebra was pure evil.

Calculus and Trig I got down in days.

2 years of French, can't speak a word of it.

I slept thru Latin and still got an A.

Geometry made me go, "WTF?"
Not sure why.
XD

337 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:38:39pm

re: #334 Conservative Moonbat

Maybe he was an anchor baby.

to be honest, that might not be far from the truth.

338 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:39:20pm

re: #309 Silvergirl

When a person feels misunderstood time after time, and misunderstood by many people, what then? Time to pause and reflect? You so often fall back on readers taking what you've written out of context. I haven't been around solidly for weeks, but that was an oft repeated blames--that others are just not careful readers. Time to look at the writing?

Ohh I know I have hit several raw nerves. No American likes to be told flat out that their sacred opinions might not matter - or that G-d forbid, because they really are ignorant, they do not even have a right to an opinion on certain topics.

People are getting defensive though. If they want to disagree with me, they ought to do so for what I am writing and not the raw nerve I hit.

339 Kragar  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:39:42pm

re: #333 deranged cat

re: #322 Kragar (proud to be kafir)


amen, yo. i pretty much sucked in school, but when i was really interested in something, i kicked ass in it. i'm pretty good at writing fairly decent papers last minute, too.

Sophmore history, I never read the text book, wrote 5 paragraph essays supposedly off the readings just from classroom discussion and still was on the honor roll.

340 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:40:13pm

re: #323 Racer X

I hate Algebra. I failed Algebra.

I love Quantum Mechanics.

Go figure.

Ever read The Dancing Wu Li Masters? Awesome book. Much less hippy-trippy as the title indicates. Which is to say, it doesn't get into those "you can control the universe with your mind" crap that some other books that look at QM from an Eastern perspective do. Mostly just a straightforward, clear explanation of what QM is, how they know it works, and what its potential consequences are.

341 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:40:59pm

re: #311 EmmmieG

I've always believed that there are multiple talents that can help a person succeed.

For example, the ability to work with people is actually priceless, if combined with a reasonable intelligence and some organization.

We could come up with categories all day:

Mechanics. Math. Verbal. Physical. Creativity. Aesthetics. Music. Organization. Leadership.

My gift was mockery. Still is.

Not the best way to make friends, except among smart humorous people.

342 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:41:38pm

re: #292 Charles

Much agreed. If someone didn't mention it upthread, he referred to "fraudulent peace movements" who have no intention of stopping wars. That seems pretty rightwing to me. Do the ones who blame the Left glaze over that?

343 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:42:30pm

re: #341 Cato the Elder

You might be confusing curmudgeonliness with mockery :p

344 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:43:05pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

I think the world would be better if people actually knew algebra and rather than seeing it as something to get defensive about not knowing, would see it with shame shame as not being able to read.

I'd be tickled if more people actually knew arithmetic. For instance, is it really possible that NASA spends 24% of the federal budget, or a Hellfire missile costs $2 million, or 400 ppm CO2 is just some kind of incomprehensible jargon, or 95% of welfare recipients are black? Plenty of people think so and it can only be because they do not grasp some very basic facts about quantities, dimensions, and numbers themselves.

345 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:43:31pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I know I have hit several raw nerves. No American likes to be told flat out that their sacred opinions might not matter - or that G-d forbid, because they really are ignorant, they do not even have a right to an opinion on certain topics.

I've told people that. But it only works if you zero in on the specific thing they said that betrays a general ignorance of the subject they're discussing. For example, when someone refers to deficit spending as the government "printing money," I want to tear my hair out and launch into an extensive diatribe about the currency supply in America. I usually just point out that if they believe that, they have no business discussing macroeconomics.

But one doesn't need to actually be able to crunch all the numbers themselves to discuss these sorts of things. Just be informed on the thing they're discussing. Or have their ignorance called out.

346 cliffster  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:43:36pm

re: #340 elbruce

that's a fantastic book. I haven't met anyone else who's read it.

347 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:43:50pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

People are getting defensive though. If they want to disagree with me, they ought to do so for what I am writing and not the raw nerve I hit.

If you weren't getting so defensive, you would see that those disagreeing with you are doing just that. The raw nerve, it would seem, it yours.

348 Racer X  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:43:54pm

re: #340 elbruce

Ever read The Dancing Wu Li Masters? Awesome book. Much less hippy-trippy as the title indicates. Which is to say, it doesn't get into those "you can control the universe with your mind" crap that some other books that look at QM from an Eastern perspective do. Mostly just a straightforward, clear explanation of what QM is, how they know it works, and what its potential consequences are.

Thanks. Looks interesting.

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:44:20pm

re: #344 Shiplord Kirel

I'd be tickled if more people actually knew arithmetic. For instance, is it really possible that NASA spends 24% of the federal budget, or a Hellfire missile costs $2 million, or 400 ppm CO2 is just some kind of incomprehensible jargon, or 95% of welfare recipients are black? Plenty of people think so and it can only be because they do not grasp some very basic facts about quantities, dimensions, and numbers themselves.

You'd be surprised, though, by the number of people out there who are perfectly competent with numbers for work purposes, and then simply shut it out in favor of ideology when it comes to matters like the above.

350 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:44:22pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

If someone didn't mention it upthread, he referred to "fraudulent peace movements" who have no intention of stopping wars. That seems pretty rightwing to me.

I wasn't aware the right wing ever had any interest in stopping wars in the first place.

351 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:44:33pm

Evening, all. How goes it?

352 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:44:58pm

re: #347 allegro

. The raw nerve, it would seem, it yours.

No voting for you!

353 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:45:21pm

re: #315 EmmmieG

If they failed to teach you to write a paper, it was their fault.


I perpetually felt like I had missed something, sometime. Any time I didn't know something, I thought I was supposed to already know, so I wouldn't ask.

354 cliffster  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:45:57pm

How about some fantasy football? I've been talking about setting up a league; we're running out of time so I've gone and done it. Football season is just over a week away, so let's get some lizards signed up and have us a draft! If you're interested, go here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'll be spamming this across threads the next few days, to make sure anyone interested can jump in. Sorry in advance for causing extra scrolling for those non-football folks.

355 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:46:29pm

re: #328 Charles

Does anyone know if Lee was a child of an immigrant family?

The only thing that I've seen regarding his family is that the money he had came from sales of inherited homes in Maui, HI, to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars. Don't know if those were investment homes or if his parents (or other close relatives) came from there.

356 researchok  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:46:53pm

re: #328 Charles

Does anyone know if Lee was a child of an immigrant family?

He is apparently from Canada

357 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:46:55pm

re: #320 LudwigVanQuixote

But this is not what I am saying at all.

I want to lift all people up through real education. I want to do away with the arrogance that actually thinks being ignorant to a level that the average Chinese seven year old would laugh at Americans is somehow defensible.

Real decisions need to be made by sober analysis, and that is frankly beyond the capabilities of most people, not because they are too stupid, but to lazy and too entrenched in thinking that is OK.

There is nothing wrong with wanting people to achieve their potential rather than wallow in ignorance to the extent that it tears everything down.

I am not calling for all people to be scientists. I am not calling for all people to be engineers or concert musicians or Shakespeare grade geniuses. I am calling for people to recognize that they are not qualified to all things unless they actually take the time to gain basic competency.

As to people's moral worth, I make no statement at all. However, I utterly reject this "we all have an equal voice" crap.

Does your janitor have an equal voice to a surgeon on medical matters?

Do you really think that the talking head on Fox news has the same weight as a physicist on matters of physics?

Does just some twit at the bar who doesn't know who Robert E. Lee was have the same merit to talk about US policy as someone who could pass an actual highschool grade education?

Get real here.

I am not talking about keeping people back. I am talking about setting a bar and telling people they have a duty to reach it.

I want to play the devil's advocate. Suppose instead of all voters being tested, reduce it to the electorate who wanted to vote in Senate elections tested. I bet having an informed electorate would most likely lead to a better quality of candidate from both parties.

358 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:47:02pm

re: #352 Mr Pancakes

No voting for you!

I know, right? I suck at typing. LOL

359 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:47:29pm

re: #343 windsagio

You might be confusing curmudgeonliness with mockery :p

And you might be confusing emoticons with communication.

360 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:47:50pm

re: #358 allegro

I know, right? I suck at typing. LOL

Me too! I'll never vote again.

361 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:48:14pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

And you might be confusing emoticons with communication.

You made this :);
this :(

362 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:48:18pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

not exactly disproving my point ;)

363 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:48:43pm

re: #353 wrenchwench

I perpetually felt like I had missed something, sometime. Any time I didn't know something, I thought I was supposed to already know, so I wouldn't ask.

The best teacher I had in school was the one who taught us to write papers.

364 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:49:35pm

re: #252 Cato the Elder

Piss off, mathocrat.

Rather than getting angry at me, why not just fix your deficiency and stop being so lazy? Not knowing algebra is nothing to be proud of, let alone something to get snarky over as if you are something special for being so ignorant.

365 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:49:45pm

re: #356 researchok

Blame Canada jokes in 3, 2, 1...

366 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:50:20pm

re: #344 Shiplord Kirel

I'd be tickled if more people actually knew arithmetic. For instance, is it really possible that NASA spends 24% of the federal budget, or a Hellfire missile costs $2 million, or 400 ppm CO2 is just some kind of incomprehensible jargon, or 95% of welfare recipients are black? Plenty of people think so and it can only be because they do not grasp some very basic facts about quantities, dimensions, and numbers themselves.

Exactly.

367 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:50:45pm

Yes, Ludwig, because the ability to do algebra forty years after someone forced you to do it is the test of political sobriety and worthiness.

I can recognize fools without algebra. I have a pretty good track record, in fact.

In fact, I'm talking to a ranting fool right now.

Come back when you're sane again.

368 elizajane  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:50:52pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I know I have hit several raw nerves. No American likes to be told flat out that their sacred opinions might not matter - or that G-d forbid, because they really are ignorant, they do not even have a right to an opinion on certain topics.

People are getting defensive though. If they want to disagree with me, they ought to do so for what I am writing and not the raw nerve I hit.

Actually, everybody has a right to an opinion. The problem you are pointing to is that our system also gives them the right to act upon it, or to influence policy based on it, in some small way. This is why you are frustrated.

I think that most climate scientists are frustrated right now by the power of demagoguery and misinformation over fact and knowledge. My partner, who is also in this field, lies awake at night worrying about what world we will leave to our children and their children. Those with unpleasant knowledge are impotent against those with pleasant lies.

I think that your anger at ignorance is somewhat misplaced. The ignorant have always been with us. And when you say that politicians now are morons compared to the founding fathers, I somewhat disagree as well. I think you could probably find many very smart men and women in politics today too, but the system does not necessarily reward the people with the intellects. I would really look more at how the political system, and the information market, has been misshapen, and less at the "intelligence" of the voting public.

A somewhat incoherent way of saying that I've been listening sadly to Ludwig for the past few days, and that the crowing of the Right about how this Discovery Chanel nut was inspired by Al Gore has me upset as well.

369 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:51:42pm

re: #356 researchok

He is apparently from Canada

I was just in Burnaby...

I will confess that after we were back home, I told my husband I thought we should have gotten some Chinese food, because it was probably excellent in Vancouver.

370 cliffster  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:51:51pm

re: #356 researchok

He is apparently from Canada

That proves it - we need a wall

371 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:52:47pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

I think the world would be better if people actually knew algebra and rather than seeing it as something to get defensive about not knowing, would see it with shame shame as not being able to read.

I'm embarrassed that I could not get past the whole letters=numbers thing (finding the unknown...right?) though I have tried over the years to learn algebra I just can't.
Maybe that makes me defensive.
Or maybe I'm just wired that way.

I like to read.
No, I love to read and I do not understand how anyone who can read does not enjoy reading for pleasure.
WTF?
How can that be?
My husband, who is quite the math guy, does not read for pleasure. He describes the act of reading as almost painful because, for him, it requires so much mental energy.

Not sure where I was going with this....

372 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:52:53pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #367 Cato the Elder

Can we please get through tonight without Charles having to hand out a timeout?

373 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:54:13pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

Rather than getting angry at me, why not just fix your deficiency and stop being so lazy? Not knowing algebra is nothing to be proud of, let alone something to get snarky over as if you are something special for being so ignorant.

I did know algebra, once, my mathocratic friend.

I forgot it all because I took a different path in life.

Are you saying I'm lazy because I don't intend to go back and learn it again in order to pass your eco-fascist literacy test for voting?

Too bad you don't run things, little man.

374 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:54:35pm

re: #365 EmmmieG

Blame Canada jokes in 3, 2, 1...

Youtube Video
375 allegro  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:54:37pm

re: #371 webevintage

Not sure where I was going with this...

You have just described the left brain/right brain thing.

376 blueraven  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:55:44pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I know I have hit several raw nerves. No American likes to be told flat out that their sacred opinions might not matter - or that G-d forbid, because they really are ignorant, they do not even have a right to an opinion on certain topics.

People are getting defensive though. If they want to disagree with me, they ought to do so for what I am writing and not the raw nerve I hit.


Of course they have a right to an opinion. On any subject. Now, that opinion may not hold much sway, but everyone has the right to one.

Some people will never have an aptitude for math, LVQ. That is a fact. Just as some couldn't draw a decent picture if there life depended on it. We are diverse; that is our greatness, not our weakness.

That said, I would love to see our education system overhauled. We need to stop teaching to "the test,"; stop dumbing it down and expect more from out students. We need to pay teachers what they are worth. We need to spread what works in education and get rid of the things that dont work. We need more math and science teachers. If we dont do something, our children will not be able to keep up with the rest of the world. Especially countries that value education a lot more than we do.

377 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:58:44pm

re: #357 Reginald Perrin

I want to play the devil's advocate. Suppose instead of all voters being tested, reduce it to the electorate who wanted to vote in Senate elections tested. I bet having an informed electorate would most likely lead to a better quality of candidate from both parties.

Well honestly, as I wrote a dozen times on the other thread, I think that a service requirement would be the best.

As I also wrote a dozen times, there is no practical way to implement what I am talking about at the present time. We would require a major re-working of our education system to even remotely approach fairly doing such a thing with education requirements..

What interests me is the way that people are fixating on algebra. I also pointed out a basic history requirement and a basic literacy requirement.

But you are correct about only allowing educated people to run for office.

Just simply being able to pass AP U.S. history, AP world history, and the equivalent exams in biology, chemistry and physic would cut the riffraff out of office by a large margin.

Also please note though, that in no place did I say that people are good or bad based on their education. I have made no moral statement about this even once.

I am making a statement about qualifications.

People hate to be told that they are not qualified. Too bad.

I do not hold being blind against anyone, but that does not mean I consider them qualified to be a pilot. The same thing applies to any exercise of political will that determines the fate of a nation.

378 cliffster  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 4:59:22pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

Algebra sez, 2 is equal to 1


Start with a and b being equal

a = b

Multiply by a

a^2 = ab

Subtract b^2

a^2 - b^2 = ab - b^2

Factory out (a - b)

(a - b)(a + b) = b(a - b)

Divide by (a - b)

a + b = b

Since a = b, then say

b + b = b

Therefore

2b = b

Divide by b

2 = 1


Algebra!

379 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:00:29pm

re: #377 LudwigVanQuixote

And... you pull it together, thanks :D

People are fixating on Algebra because that's what Cato decided to focus on when he set out to make trouble.

It's pretty much that simple.

380 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:05:04pm

re: #379 windsagio

And... you pull it together, thanks :D

People are fixating on Algebra because that's what Cato decided to focus on when he set out to make trouble.

It's pretty much that simple.

my fixation is not algebra, it's the whole concept of any aptitude test deciding who has the right to vote. i can't stand the whole beck "restoring honor" clan,however, no one is too dumb to vote. just like no one is too dumb to have to pay taxes.

381 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:05:57pm

Sorry Charles! According to ABC news, you're wrong! This guy wasn't some barely coherent schizophrenic who unfortunately turned violent. (My layman's diagnosis.)

He was, in fact, a radical environmentalist!

A radical enviornmentalist who took three hostages at the Discovery Channel headquarters while wearing what police may be explosives was shot and killed by officers, police said.

Misspelling of environmentalist courtesy of ABC news. (What has happened to journalistic standards?) See [Link: abcnews.go.com...]

382 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:06:37pm

re: #368 elizajane

Actually, everybody has a right to an opinion. The problem you are pointing to is that our system also gives them the right to act upon it, or to influence policy based on it, in some small way. This is why you are frustrated.

That is exactly one point. I am also saying that opinions are not facts and no one has a right to conflate the two.

I think that most climate scientists are frustrated right now by the power of demagoguery and misinformation over fact and knowledge. My partner, who is also in this field, lies awake at night worrying about what world we will leave to our children and their children. Those with unpleasant knowledge are impotent against those with pleasant lies.

I feel for him. The actual knowledge of how bad it is and how we are actually gleefully marching towards our destruction, that it could be prevented, but isn't, and that it is being done by morons whome we can not escape is at times, overwhelming.

I think that your anger at ignorance is somewhat misplaced. The ignorant have always been with us.

True, but we are now at a point in history where the votes of those ignorant people could potentially wipe out our civilization. This is a new problem.

And when you say that politicians now are morons compared to the founding fathers, I somewhat disagree as well.

Well you are certainly correct that the founding fathers we talk about were not the only politicians of their day.

I think you could probably find many very smart men and women in politics today too, but the system does not necessarily reward the people with the intellects.

One look at the careers of W. Bush, Palin, Inhofe, Barton, Bachman and Angle will show demonstrably show that our system rewards the opposite.

I would really look more at how the political system, and the information market, has been misshapen, and less at the "intelligence" of the voting public.

Educated people would be more resistant to the propaganda. Not immune, but at least resistant. As to the cretins at Fox, or the Heritage Foundation, I want them imprisoned.

A somewhat incoherent way of saying that I've been listening sadly to Ludwig for the past few days,

I rather like you a lot. I am sorry to have made you sad.

and that the crowing of the Right about how this Discovery Chanel nut was inspired by Al Gore has me upset as well.

Well the right are about as moral and cuddly as a bubonic rat.

383 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:08:59pm

Algebra is obviously a subversive plot: Invented by Arabs, promoted by communists, practiced in every liberal ivory tower of a pointy-headed elitist university in the country and, perhaps most damningly, endorsed by the NEA.

384 brownbagj  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:09:13pm

You know, I have known plenty of "math scholars" who didn't have getting out of the rain sense.

I also know many people of an older generation who had to quite school before their teen years. And I would take their opinions in a heart beat.

LVQ, I love you man. I do. But the nerve you struck with me is not jealousy. I have always been good at math, science and basically any other discipline that was put in front of me.

But there is more to real life than being able to combine the alphabet and numerical charts.

Would it be ok, to add to your "bar" that before you can vote to raise taxes or anything associated with having the wealthy pay more, that you have to own property and pay taxes yourself?

Seems repulsive too doesn't it?

385 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:09:40pm

re: #378 cliffster

You can't divide by a-b because a=b and you're dividing by zero. That's where the whole thing falls apart.

(I have a B.A. in Mathematics!)

386 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:10:25pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

True, but we are now at a point in history where the votes of those ignorant people could potentially wipe out our civilization. This is a new problem.

Solution?

Algebraic eco-fascism!

Calculate that shit, Ludwig!

387 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:10:44pm

re: #384 brownbagj

Oh thank you so much for changing that picture.

Yes. This is better.

388 huggy77  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:11:40pm

So much fun in this thread! If this guy went into an immigration office and did this while mentioning the environment in his manifesto he would be labeled as a right wing extremist. The story would probably have a tea party tag.

Personally I think he was a nut. But I also think the guy who attacked the cabbie was also a nut.

389 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:12:05pm

How much on-the-spot calculus can Obama do?

Forget the nirth certifikit, he's clearly unqualified.

390 Cokezero  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:12:06pm

Can't we all just agree that its Marilyn Manson's fault?

391 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:13:17pm

re: #376 blueraven

Of course they have a right to an opinion. On any subject. Now, that opinion may not hold much sway, but everyone has the right to one.

No not at all, if you express the wrong opinion about how to crack a chest in surgery, and act on it, someone dies.

Unless you are a thoracic surgeon you have no right to an opinion on that.

I don't either. I never went to medical school. We also don't have a right to an opinion on how to design an airplane. Or successfully plant a field.

Some things require certain knowledge to do. Some things need to be done right or people die.

It is a fact that we can not all be experts at everything. That means that in certain cases, we only have the right to learn what we can and otherwise shut up.

Some people will never have an aptitude for math, LVQ. That is a fact. Just as some couldn't draw a decent picture if there life depended on it. We are diverse; that is our greatness, not our weakness.

Uhh ok great. I make no claims about anyone's moral worth and mathematical aptitude is not the only measure I have. Rainman would not make a good president either.

However, unlike history and literature, mathematics is singled out as a basic educational boogy man that is somehow OK to be rock solid illiterate in. That is not OK.

That said, I would love to see our education system overhauled. We need to stop teaching to "the test,"; stop dumbing it down and expect more from out students. We need to pay teachers what they are worth. We need to spread what works in education and get rid of the things that dont work. We need more math and science teachers. If we dont do something, our children will not be able to keep up with the rest of the world. Especially countries that value education a lot more than we do.

Now we are talking the same language.

392 brownbagj  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:16:32pm

re: #387 JasonA

You're welcome. It was getting to me too. I had forgotten about it - had only intended it to be there for a few days.

393 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:18:11pm

Somewhat related to testing voters:

I once tried to make a "link/blog and comment" site where the rank of your stories and comments was based not on how others rated you (how most sites do it), but on how well you answer general knowledge questions. Every day, people could see half-a-dozen questions, all designed to be hard to Google.

Some example: we'd have 10 seconds of a Symphony audio and you'd have to click on a picture of the composer. Or you'd see the outline of a country, and you'd have to select the picture of the prime minister. We tried to make sure that no question was above high school level.

Other ways to increase your rank were to buy points, or someone else can donate their own points to you. I figured this would accurately represent America: You could make it by being smart, rich, or having friends willing to help lift yourself up.

What happened? I ended up with only a couple of dozen users, and all of them were assholes. So much for getting better people through testing.

I do think there's a better way than the Digg/Reddit way of a pure "mob" democracy. Those sites seem to become cesspools fast.

394 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:23:16pm

re: #373 Cato the Elder

I did know algebra, once, my mathocratic friend.

So then you could learn it again if you had to, and there would be no problem.

I forgot it all because I took a different path in life.

So then you don't fill out taxes or need to calculate interest on anything? You needed to know it and skated by.

Are you saying I'm lazy because I don't intend to go back and learn it again

Yes. I am saying you are not only lazy, but proudly ignorant and that such an attitude is a disgrace from anyone who considers himself educated. Would you be so forgiving of the equivalent ignorance of not being able to read?

in order to pass your eco-fascist literacy test for voting?

No such test exists, nor did I propose one. I said I would not be opposed to a fair one, and that having a service requirement would be better.

Too bad you don't run things, little man.

That is certainly the case. If I did, we would not be dependent on oil fomr nations that hate us. We would have a much stronger domestic economy because we generated our own power, and most importantly, we would still have an America to worry about in 100 years.

395 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:26:45pm

re: #386 Cato the Elder

Solution?

Algebraic eco-fascism!

Calculate that shit, Ludwig!

Actually it already has been:

[Link: www.sciencedirect.com...]

Synergies among extinction drivers under global change


If habitat destruction or overexploitation of populations is severe, species loss can occur directly and abruptly. Yet the final descent to extinction is often driven by synergistic processes (amplifying feedbacks) that can be disconnected from the original cause of decline. We review recent observational, experimental and meta-analytic work which together show that owing to interacting and self-reinforcing processes, estimates of extinction risk for most species are more severe than previously recognised. As such, conservation actions which only target single-threat drivers risk being inadequate because of the cascading effects caused by unmanaged synergies. Future work should focus on how climate change will interact with and accelerate ongoing threats to biodiversity, such as habitat degradation, overexploitation and invasive species.

Perhaps if you understood the math, you would see we are talking about extinction level events coming down the road.

396 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:29:03pm

re: #389 Cato the Elder

How much on-the-spot calculus can Obama do?

Forget the nirth certifikit, he's clearly unqualified.

Well, I am sure he could manage more than you. Why are you so proud of being stupidly ignorant? You are starting to sound like Palin.

397 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:29:12pm

re: #394 LudwigVanQuixote

What a god you are.

Carry on.

398 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:32:17pm

Man, I remember back when I knew everything too.

399 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:34:17pm

re: #391 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ, you're missing the point the other Lizards are trying to make, you're titling at a windmill.
I agree with you regarding the problem, your solution is a tad too much on the extreme side. A more practical solution would be to deal with the bastards like the Koch brothers whose astro-turf spin machine that brainwashes these uniformed voters
Let it go, there are too many other important issues to discus. Lighten up and take a few jabs at Mooselini on the thread upstairs

400 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:37:18pm

re: #399 Reginald Perrin

FWIW, "titling at windmills" is hereby nominated for 'typo of the day'...heh...

401 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:38:46pm

re: #394 LudwigVanQuixote

So then you don't fill out taxes or need to calculate interest on anything? You needed to know it and skated by.

You need algebra to do your taxes?

Many Americans will be surprised, shocked, and perhaps even nonplussed to learn that.

You must be into some arcane fucking finances, O God of Math!

402 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:41:09pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

countdown until someone falls into the 'nonplussed' trap in 3...2...1...

403 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:45:07pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

You need algebra to do your taxes?

Many Americans will be surprised, shocked, and perhaps even nonplussed to learn that.

You must be into some arcane fucking finances, O God of Math!

So suppose you make x dollars and you want to know what tax bracket your raise of y might put you in, and if after the transition you make or loose money? Suppose you have savings in a Bank and a CD and are curious about taking capital gains into account.

How would you calculate all that without using some algebra?

404 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:45:27pm

Algebra, Smalgebra.

In my world you can't vote unless you can land a helicopter at night on the back of a pitching postage stamp sized flight deck.

And you have to be born before the bicentennial or you don't know shit.
//

405 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:45:34pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

You need algebra to do your taxes?

Many Americans will be surprised, shocked, and perhaps even nonplussed to learn that.

You must be into some arcane fucking finances, O God of Math!

And what about simple interest? How do you calculate that?

406 joest73  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:46:15pm

re: #381 reuven

Sorry Charles! According to ABC news, you're wrong! This guy wasn't some barely coherent schizophrenic who unfortunately turned violent. (My layman's diagnosis.)

He was, in fact, a radical environmentalist!

Misspelling of environmentalist courtesy of ABC news. (What has happened to journalistic standards?) See [Link: abcnews.go.com...]

This just proves that you have people on both sides that will cross the line.
One...two...or twenty crazy environmentalist nut does not erase the millions of honest..normal people that care about the environment.

The same goes for 99% of Tea Partiers that are normal people that are just worried about the future of this country.

407 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:46:23pm

re: #404 rwdflynavy

Algebra, Smalgebra.

In my world you can't vote unless you can land a helicopter at night on the back of a pitching postage stamp sized flight deck.

And you have to be born before the bicentennial or you don't know shit.
//

Dude, I will always respect a naval aviator. Of course, they also all have to know algebra if only to calculate bingo fuel.

408 elizajane  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:46:54pm

re: #401 Cato the Elder

You need algebra to do your taxes?

Many Americans will be surprised, shocked, and perhaps even nonplussed to learn that.

You must be into some arcane fucking finances, O God of Math!

Personally I am always nonplussed when I do my taxes. I am sometimes shocked as well. I'm pretty sure it's the algebra.

409 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:47:31pm

re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude, I will always respect a naval aviator. Of course, they also all have to know algebra if only to calculate bingo fuel.

Fortunately I can do basic algebra, as you state, it is fairly important in my field.

410 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:49:13pm

re: #405 LudwigVanQuixote

And what about simple interest? How do you calculate that?

With the inbuilt calculator on my iPhone.

411 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:49:32pm

re: #381 reuven

Sorry Charles! According to ABC news, you're wrong! This guy wasn't some barely coherent schizophrenic who unfortunately turned violent. (My layman's diagnosis.)

He was, in fact, a radical environmentalist!


Charles is quite well aware of that guy's rants about the environment. As is everybody else here. His opinions have been discussed at length in this thread. Try your page up button.

By your logic, the guy who crashed a plane into that office building in Vegas was just a tax protester.

412 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:51:50pm

re: #385 reuven

You can't divide by a-b because a=b and you're dividing by zero. That's where the whole thing falls apart.

(I have a B.A. in Mathematics!)

oh dear, I actually missed that. 2b=b -> b=0 was my solution (nowhere did he state that a=b!=0) but you nipped it in the bud a few lines before that.re: #401 Cato the Elder

You need algebra to do your taxes?

Many Americans will be surprised, shocked, and perhaps even nonplussed to learn that.

You must be into some arcane fucking finances, O God of Math!

okay, I laughed out loud at that. picturing LVQ here, wearing a Big Pointy Hat (c) with embroidered stars and a purple robe doing his taxes with a fluffy pink magical wand while leafing through "ye olde arcane IRS tax code".
somehow, after what could possibly be the most boring 5 weeks of my education (on tax law) that was very, very funny.

re: #405 LudwigVanQuixote

And what about simple interest? How do you calculate that?

that formula is so simple that applying it doesnt exactly require much knowledge of the deeper intricacies of algebra. you're sort of arguing semantics.

413 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:52:52pm

and I should not forget to add that, of course, "ye olde arcane IRS tax code" should be on a highly ornate and 600 years old lectern. obviously. /

414 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:54:05pm

re: #412 ThomasLite

oh dear, I actually missed that. 2b=b -> b=0 was my solution (nowhere did he state that a=b!=0) but you nipped it in the bud a few lines before that.re: #401 Cato the Elder

okay, I laughed out loud at that. picturing LVQ here, wearing a Big Pointy Hat (c) with embroidered stars and a purple robe doing his taxes with a fluffy pink magical wand while leafing through "ye olde arcane IRS tax code".
somehow, after what could possibly be the most boring 5 weeks of my education (on tax law) that was very, very funny.

re: #405 LudwigVanQuixote

that formula is so simple that applying it doesnt exactly require much knowledge of the deeper intricacies of algebra. you're sort of arguing semantics.

But none the less it is algebra, and given that what most banks cal simple interest is actually compounded daily, that even requires calculus.

I think you need to study those economics books a little harder.

415 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:56:19pm

re: #410 Cato the Elder

With the inbuilt calculator on my iPhone.

So you are really proud of being astonishingly ignorant. I never would have expected that from you. You do realize that you are the shameless equivalent of one who is proud that they never read. Ohh I learned to read in grade school, but my life took a different path. Don't have much use for reading. Nope, I get all I need from Fox News....

416 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 5:57:08pm

re: #405 LudwigVanQuixote

And what about simple interest? How do you calculate that?

I gotta a guy....:)
The beauty of Software is that Table views in Oracle can make you look like a genius...The Web is the future of Databases...Skill of algebra is so 10 years ago...
/

417 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:01:50pm

re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote

But none the less it is algebra, and given that what most banks cal simple interest is actually compounded daily, that even requires calculus.

I think you need to study those economics books a little harder.

okay, I'll restate this a bit: do you think it is necessary to know more algebra than needed to input a few figures into a formula someone else wrote down for you for that?
or, more to the point, use cato's nice iPhone app?

also, while I'm not aware how it's done in the states, money in the bank is taxed with a really simple formula here: total sum at start of year plus total sum at end of year, divided by two, then a 4% profit is assumed (this is a definitive assumption you can not get around, tax law is simple like that here!) over which you pay 30% income tax.
that's 1,2% of the average of what you have that year (and only what you have january first and what you have december 31st counts).
maybe it's a bit more complex in the states, but thats about the closest you get to anything to do with interest in taxes here.
if your taxes are so complex that it goes beyond what 90% of the population can suffice with you're stealing from your own wallet, as we call it here, by not having a tax advisor do your taxes (you'd always be so much worse at it it would cost you more than what the advisor would save!).

so tell me, what economics book should I read on interest and taxes?
(that, or what is different in US income tax? )

also, no need to get so snarky :S

418 brownbagj  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:06:00pm

re: #415 LudwigVanQuixote

I do not think this is an adequate analogy. Cato has not forgotten math. He can add, subtract and basically do what is necessary for his life.

WHat you are doing via making algebra a standard would be like Cato exclaiming that to be able to vote, you would need to not be only able to read, but read the particular book that HE deems adequate to prove your intelligence. So, you may read, but if you do not read the books HE deems appropriate, you would be called ignorant.

Look, algebra would probably stump me for a few minutes simply because I don't deal with it and haven't for some time. I am sure there are things in my line of work that I could put forward as basic for me that others have learned in the past. But since they do not deal it daily, they have forgotten. Since I do deal with it daily, I have kept up with it. I could therefore state that you must be ignorant and proud of it for not keeping your skills up.

Not many people take time out weekly to do a few algebra problems just to claim intelligence. So, pushing the line that Cato is ignorant and proud of it because his algebra skills are not polished seems elitist at best.

419 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:07:33pm

re: #415 LudwigVanQuixote

So you are really proud of being astonishingly ignorant. I never would have expected that from you. You do realize that you are the shameless equivalent of one who is proud that they never read. Ohh I learned to read in grade school, but my life took a different path. Don't have much use for reading. Nope, I get all I need from Fox News...

All ye gods who look down upon the earth, whether of the air, the water, the fire, or the earth, and all ye who particularly hate modern technology (I'm talkin' 'bout you, Gaia, and you again, Pan!), scorn and revile and hate Cato, for that he doth not do his taxifying algebra straight out o' his head, but relieth upon the Beast, him whose name is Calculator, to do it for him! Curst be he!

Cato!
Cato!
Cato iz teh stupid!

420 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:12:43pm

re: #419 Cato the Elder

All ye gods who look down upon the earth, whether of the air, the water, the fire, or the earth, and all ye who particularly hate modern technology (I'm talkin' 'bout you, Gaia, and you again, Pan!), scorn and revile and hate Cato, for that he doth not do his taxifying algebra straight out o' his head, but relieth upon the Beast, him whose name is Calculator, to do it for him! Curst be he!

Cato!
Cato!
Cato iz teh stupid!

Last week I packed the Strat away..Before I did I turned it up all the way and wrote a song here...

Next time you see me
I’m head’n down 44 west
Time for a road trip..
Let’s put it too the test

Next time you see me
I’m head’n it down South
The radio is blasting..
Let’s put this to the Test
-chorus-

No more cornfields….
No more empty fields
Saying goodbye to all my friends
Gotta hit the road… I Gotta fly
No more Cornfields
Just endless Highways

( Now we do the whole Freddie Mercury voice thing with Brian Mays Shredding the Guitar)

I’m in a Corn field.. Nobody loves me
He’s in a cornfield.. Nobody loves him
Halliluh Hallifauh figgiero Figiero

So you think you can run away.. Oh mama..On the road today?
So you think you can just blow away? Mama? Oh Mama..
Run away..Run away?
Oh mama,, Figgiro figgiro!

( Then Mays shreds your face off with a solo)

Next time you see me
I’m head’n down 44 west
Time for a road trip..
Let’s put it too the test

Oh mama..What are you going to do baby..
Route 44 baby.
Got to work it out
Got to work it out baby.

421 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:15:29pm

Repost from the wrong thread:

It's been obvious he was kooky since 2008. MSNBC...

...Court records show that Lee was arrested Feb. 21, 2008, on the sixth day of a protest at the Discovery building. At the time of his conviction in March 2008, he was identified as being from San Diego.

Police were called to the scene when a crowd that had gathered began growing “unruly” as Lee threw thousands of dollars of cash into the air, some of it still in shrink-wrapped packages, police said at the time. (Lee was found not guilty of littering.)

Lee said at the time that he experienced an ‘‘awakening” when he watched former Vice President Al Gore’s environmental documentary ‘‘An Inconvenient Truth.”

Nathaniel Harrington, a former Discovery employee, told msnbc TV’s Peter Alexander that he saw Lee outside the building during the 2008 protest.

“He was seen as something of a joke,” Harrington said. “I hate to say it, but at the time we kind of half-joked about it because he could come back shooting. Nobody took it very seriously.”

“As soon as I heard” the news Wednesday, “I knew it’s got to be Lee,” he said.

422 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:15:47pm

re: #418 brownbagj

I do not think this is an adequate analogy. Cato has not forgotten math. He can add, subtract and basically do what is necessary for his life.

Really? There is no way he could make even the most basic home finance calculations without it.

WHat you are doing via making algebra a standard would be like Cato exclaiming that to be able to vote, you would need to not be only able to read, but read the particular book that HE deems adequate to prove your intelligence.

Not at all! What do you think algebra is? This is absolutely elementary math. To make a book analogy I am saying that they need to be able to read on the level of See Spot Run.

There is a progression of knowledge. Algebra is an early step. It is a key step to real knowledge. I am just shocked at how many ere think it is some big deal. What is wrong with you?

What makes you think that basic algebra isn't something that well educated children the world over, don't routinely master? Are you suggesting that Americans are just inherently more stupid than Chinese or Canadians?

So, you may read, but if you do not read the books HE deems appropriate, you would be called ignorant.

Right, in much the same way that if you have never read a complex sentence, you are ignorant.

Look, algebra would probably stump me for a few minutes simply because I don't deal with it and haven't for some time. I am sure there are things in my line of work that I could put forward as basic for me that others have learned in the past. But since they do not deal it daily, they have forgotten. Since I do deal with it daily, I have kept up with it. I could therefore state that you must be ignorant and proud of it for not keeping your skills up.

Right I get that.

But that doesn't mean you couldn't do it, or that you haven't learned it. If you had to pass a test on it, you could study for it and do just fine.

Not many people take time out weekly to do a few algebra problems just to claim intelligence.

That is equivalent to saying that not many people take time out weekly to practice tying their shoes just to claim intelligence. This is a basic skill!

So, pushing the line that Cato is ignorant and proud of it because his algebra skills are not polished seems elitist at best.

No hardly. People who are actually good at math look down on people who don't know what a Riemann Sphere is or how to handle a modular form. That is elitism. Mathematically, not knowing algebra is like not knowing what the period at the end of a sentence is.

Standards in this country have gotten so abysmal that people actually think knowing Algebra is an accomplishment. This is pathetic.

423 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:17:17pm

re: #420 HoosierHoops

Very nice song.

But if you can't express it as an equation, you still don't get to vote.

424 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:20:15pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote

Speed the day when you will decide who is smart enough to think.

After that, the rest of us will merely drink.

Your élitism smiles the fascist smirk.

425 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:20:38pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote


That is equivalent to saying that not many people take time out weekly to practice tying their shoes just to claim intelligence. This is a basic skill!


I'm amazed that people like me are even able to brush our teeth without putting out an eye....

426 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:24:19pm

re: #425 webevintage

I'm amazed that people like me are even able to brush our teeth without putting out an eye...

Web, I like you a lot. What is the difference here? Would you consider someone who can't read and was proud f it to be ignorant and frankly a little detestable for being so proudly ignorant of a basic thing?

What is the big deal about basic algebra? I am talking about grade school competency here. You make it sound like I am setting some impossible elitist bar above the abilities of a few mortals.

I don't get it.

Are you saying that you too can not do basic algebra?

And if you can not, how can you be happy about that fact?

427 brownbagj  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:25:26pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok man. Carry on.

428 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:26:54pm

So, let me just speculate here:

How good is Charles's algebra? I'm talkin' right now, pop quiz, no internet.

How good is Iceweasel's, or Jimmah's, or any other popular blogger's here on this blog?

Snap test.

Somehow I doubt my admission that right now, if Ludwig put an eco-concerned revolver to my head, I couldn't solve a quadratic equation to save my fucking life puts me in the minority here.

429 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:29:18pm

re: #424 Cato the Elder

Speed the day when you will decide who is smart enough to think.

After that, the rest of us will merely drink.

Your élitism smiles the fascist smirk.

And, your proud ignorance

makes you a silly jerk.

What you call fascist is actually basic,

What you call hard is granted beyond Palin, but not you. Yet you revel in being illiterate. That is all your fault and you deserve to be castigated for it.

430 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:29:33pm

re: #426 LudwigVanQuixote

Web, I like you a lot. What is the difference here? Would you consider someone who can't read and was proud f it to be ignorant and frankly a little detestable for being so proudly ignorant of a basic thing?

What is the big deal about basic algebra? I am talking about grade school competency here. You make it sound like I am setting some impossible elitist bar above the abilities of a few mortals.

I don't get it.
Are you saying that you too can not do basic algebra?
And if you can not, how can you be happy about that fact?


What I wrote above:
I'm embarrassed that I could not get past the whole letters=numbers thing (finding the unknown...right?) though I have tried over the years to learn algebra I just can't.
Maybe that makes me defensive.
Or maybe I'm just wired that way.

I like to read.
No, I love to read and I do not understand how anyone who can read does not enjoy reading for pleasure.
WTF?
How can that be?
My husband, who is quite the math guy, does not read for pleasure. He describes the act of reading as almost painful because, for him, it requires so much mental energy.
For me math is painful.
Very, very painful.
But see that is the thing...I cannot understand how anyone could not read for pleasure, you on the other hand see algebra as basic math and can't imagine how someone could NOT be able to function without it.
Or not care.

431 brownbagj  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:30:48pm

It seems to me Cato is a pretty smart fellow.

Arguing with him about this (and all of us as well) seems to be wasting time when there are real problems in the world.

Seriously, if things get this heated on something as inane as Cato's math skills, how can we expect Israel's issue to ever subside? How are we going to come to agreement on AGW etc?

Impossible.

Sigh. Nite all.

432 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:33:01pm

re: #429 LudwigVanQuixote

Keep it up, clown.

Someday you might get a show like Glenn has.

433 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:33:47pm

re: #428 Cato the Elder

So, let me just speculate here:

How good is Charles's algebra? I'm talkin' right now, pop quiz, no internet.

Guaranteed better than yours. I have no doubt that they could tell me the roots of (X^2-9). Now if you can do that, then you have nothing to bitch about that. If you can't, you should be ashamed.

How good is Iceweasel's, or Jimmah's, or any other popular blogger's here on this blog?

Umm, I am also pretty sure they could manage an answer to that.

Snap test.

Like I said they could do it. I am certain. If they could not, they certainly would not be proud of it.

Somehow I doubt my admission that right now, if Ludwig put an eco-concerned revolver to my head, I couldn't solve a quadratic equation to save my fucking life puts me in the minority here.

Had to put in the eco-concerned dig didn't you... Well don't worry your pretty little head about it. Clearly such things are above your comprehension.

434 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:35:40pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote

ah I get it now.
once you are used to an algebraic approach, you apply it where possible (because it does make life a helluva lot easier). it is however easy to forget that, while they might not recognize it as such and might not be as formal in it, other people apply algebra too, though in a rather more obfuscated manner, talking themselves through it as if it were a sort of "story". (sorry I don't know how exactly to put it...)

they manage to get along quite well and it works for most of the population.
also what you call grade school competency algebra is not what someone with a certain loathing of mathematics calls algebra.

my little sister, who's starting psychology at rotterdam erasmus university this year, had a fear-and-loathing-of-algebra complex for years. she was quite okay at math actually (exceedingly good at applied statistics even - perfect since it's the only 'advanced' math she'll need as a psychologist) and only got over it once I finally figured out I had to show her that the oh so scary algebra is not so different from the way she solved problems already - writing it out, step by step, in an almost-but-not-quite-entirely algebraic manner.
many people do that, and they're good enough at it to suffice for many, many academic level positions.

it's in part fault of certain math snobs (and yes, I am by now looking at you, you fit the profile) who do not bother with explaining algebra in a way that does not scare the hell out of those who's talents lie in the social sciences, who do not care to acknowledge the way in which a somewhat less scientific, more limited but still pretty practical approach at all things mathematical can serve perfectly well for all but those few in a select group of sciences where extremely complicated mathematics are required.

let me guess, you were (and probably are) the sort of fellow who thinks liberal arts majors are vastly inferior compared to his own vast, nigh limitless intellect?

you sir, are the very reason so very many people despise scientists in general, the reason they're regarded as high on intellect, compensated by a total lack of empathy, the reason so many children eschew the exact sciences because they don't want to be a sociopathic idiot like that.

bravo, you are doing more for dumbing down america than palin could hope to accomplish.

435 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:37:30pm

re: #433 LudwigVanQuixote

roots of (X^2-9)? well I must admit all my education on math has been in dutch so I'm not sure I understand but if I understand correctly it's -3 and 3.
how the F**K is that remotely useful in daily life, or any kind of social sciences?
explain that to me sir. please, I'd very much like to know.

436 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:39:59pm

re: #430 webevintage

What I wrote above:
I'm embarrassed that I could not get past the whole letters=numbers thing (finding the unknown...right?) though I have tried over the years to learn algebra I just can't.
Maybe that makes me defensive.
Or maybe I'm just wired that way.

I like to read.
No, I love to read and I do not understand how anyone who can read does not enjoy reading for pleasure.
WTF?
How can that be?
My husband, who is quite the math guy, does not read for pleasure. He describes the act of reading as almost painful because, for him, it requires so much mental energy.
For me math is painful.
Very, very painful.
But see that is the thing...I cannot understand how anyone could not read for pleasure, you on the other hand see algebra as basic math and can't imagine how someone could NOT be able to function without it.
Or not care.

Web, most people who like math read a lot also. I don't understand this notion that being proficient in basic math is exclusive to being proficient to in other basic academics.

As to your woes in learning math...

I am actually very sympathetic. It has been my experience that many students were taught in ways that essentially reinforced that they would never learn it and end up blaming themselves.

I have had many, many students (in fact, thousands). I have met hundreds who have said the same thing you have just said. I have met exactly three whom I thought would just never get it.

We live in a nation where most math teachers don't know the math they are required to teach themselves. They can parrot out of a book but they could not explain say why the distributive property works if they had a gun to their heads.

Most students are required to memorize concepts that were never made clear in the first place and then apply them without any proper guidance. I fully understand how that sets good people up for a cycle of failure.

However, with the right teacher, I am confident - and confident from my experience of tutoring calculus since I was twelve, that you are not in the category that could just never get algebra.

437 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:40:03pm

re: #433 LudwigVanQuixote

Shibboleth.

Work out, in the part of your overh(e)ated brain that understands and loves the Talmud, what that means.

438 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:40:29pm

re: #433 LudwigVanQuixote
Hell's bells. Any number of iphone apps can answer any algebraic equation effortlessly.
I'm afraid, though, that constructing a coherent sentence is going to continue to be problematic for..... some.

439 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:42:44pm

I liked math as a kid.
Loved geometry.

BUT I can remember exactly when I began to hate math.
It was 9th grade math and my teacher did not have time to deal with students like me who could not get past the idea that letters could take the place of numbers. If you had a question he would say that it was "inthe book".
He liked his student who were the mathleats types.

The rest of us got left behind.

440 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:43:20pm

re: #435 ThomasLite

roots of (X^2-9)? well I must admit all my education on math has been in dutch so I'm not sure I understand but if I understand correctly it's -3 and 3.
how the F**K is that remotely useful in daily life, or any kind of social sciences?
explain that to me sir. please, I'd very much like to know.

Well, it is grammar, no more or no less. Just like you may not care to learn the rules of writing, to do so eloquently, you need to know it.

As a step along the way of a larger problem such a thing could quickly come up, just like you need basic grammar to write a paragraph that makes sense.

As to where it is useful, tell me how you would figure out (as in calculate it on your own) an amortization table for instance without being able to solve basic algebraic expressions? How do you know a table is correct?

441 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:43:51pm

re: #436 LudwigVanQuixote

As to your woes in learning math...


You're making people who can do math look bad. On behalf of everyone else in the world who can do math, we respectfully ask you to knock it off.

442 webevintage  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:45:13pm

re: #436 LudwigVanQuixote


However, with the right teacher, I am confident - and confident from my experience of tutoring calculus since I was twelve, that you are not in the category that could just never get algebra.

That was such a sweet post you made me cry....
seriously.

I bet you are a wonderful tutor.

443 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:45:15pm

re: #437 Cato the Elder

Shibboleth.

Work out, in the part of your overh(e)ated brain that understands and loves the Talmud, what that means.

A shibboleth is an abomination that is taboo and forbidden.

Are you saying that learning algebra will make you one of the Ba'alim?
What in G-d's name are you driving at? My brain does not seem to be overheating on this one buddy.

444 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:46:03pm

re: #442 webevintage

That was such a sweet post you made me cry...
seriously.

I bet you are a wonderful tutor.

Thank you. I was always proud that my students consistently wrote good end of semester reviews about me.

445 tradewind  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:46:32pm
Just like you may not care to learn the rules of writing, to do so eloquently, you need to know it.

Argghgghgh.
*just-shoot-me-now*

446 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:49:04pm

re: #439 webevintage

I liked math as a kid.
Loved geometry.

BUT I can remember exactly when I began to hate math.
It was 9th grade math and my teacher did not have time to deal with students like me who could not get past the idea that letters could take the place of numbers. If you had a question he would say that it was "inthe book".
He liked his student who were the mathleats types.

The rest of us got left behind.

And you are simply not unique in that. Had someone taken you aside, then and given you a few days of one on one answering your questions, the whole topic would have opened up to you rather than being forced to build a pyramid on shaky ground.

Many people have different learning styles. This does not make them dumb or incapable. It just means that with explanations, one size does not fit all.

There is a saying in Talmud, that I absolutely agree with the truth of.

If you meet an eager student who seems to not be able to learn, blame the teacher for having a bad temperament.

447 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:50:28pm

re: #443 LudwigVanQuixote

A shibboleth is an abomination that is taboo and forbidden.

Are you saying that learning algebra will make you one of the Ba'alim?
What in G-d's name are you driving at? My brain does not seem to be overheating on this one buddy.

I'm saying that you have set up a math shibboleth (if you can't do this simple little matrix equation in your head then you must be killed, because you're a nincompoop, and a lazy one) in your ecofascist eliminationist deranged mind.

Carry on.

448 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:50:38pm

re: #441 elbruce

You're making people who can do math look bad. On behalf of everyone else in the world who can do math, we respectfully ask you to knock it off.

Ohh do go back to the stalker blog :)

Almost everyone can do algebra. That is the point.

449 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:52:55pm

re: #447 Cato the Elder

I'm saying that you have set up a math shibboleth (if you can't do this simple little matrix equation in your head then you must be killed, because you're a nincompoop, and a lazy one) in your ecofascist eliminationist deranged mind.

Carry on.

Must be killed?

Ecofascist?

Dude, did your brain hemorrhage or something? How do you get that out of saying that algebra is basic knowledge and no one has an excuse for being proud of not knowing it?

And QED, since you are not a nincompoop, the fact that you are proud at not knowing algebra indicates that you are lazy.

You get no sympathy for being intellectually lazy Cato. It is pathetic - especially coming from one with your gifts.

450 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:54:07pm

Algebra! Algebra!
Whoever can't do it is missing
large parts of his brain, so I'm dissing
all those who can't, in an ongoing rant,
about people who can't. R U lissing?

451 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:54:32pm

(x2 - 9) = (x-3)(x+3)

X2-3x+3x-9 = x - 9

What do I win?

452 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:55:15pm

re: #451 b_sharp

(x2 - 9) = (x-3)(x+3)

X2-3x+3x-9 = x - 9

What do I win?

You get to vote.

453 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:55:45pm

re: #452 Cato the Elder

You get to vote.

For who?

Not Palin I hope.

454 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:56:40pm

re: #453 b_sharp

no. that would be a booby prize.

455 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:57:11pm

re: #451 b_sharp

(x2 - 9) = (x-3)(x+3)

X2-3x+3x-9 = x - 9

What do I win?

TI-10 calculator with floating point decimal and Reverse polish Notation.

456 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:57:45pm

re: #451 b_sharp

(x2 - 9) = (x-3)(x+3)

X2-3x+3x-9 = x - 9

What do I win?

The ability to be recognized as not utterly ignorant of basic math.

457 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:59:02pm

re: #440 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, it is grammar, no more or no less. Just like you may not care to learn the rules of writing, to do so eloquently, you need to know it.

As a step along the way of a larger problem such a thing could quickly come up, just like you need basic grammar to write a paragraph that makes sense.

As to where it is useful, tell me how you would figure out (as in calculate it on your own) an amortization table for instance without being able to solve basic algebraic expressions? How do you know a table is correct?

ah, an amortization table. I concur you need some elementary math to make one.

however, I'm interested in why you'd want to write one yourself instead of getting it with the loan/mortgage when taken out/updated (they send out yearly updates on long-term loans usually, right?)
when you have to replace a bulb, you do it yourself. when you have to redo half the wiring in the house, you hire skilled labor.
blocked sink? do it yourself. install a new toilet? I'd do it myself but most would seek skilled help, and rightly so.

that goes for may other things: the days when you did everything yourself, when you could be totally self-sufficient are long gone.
I remember my dad (high school chem teacher) telling me about a student who had calculated the amount of vitamin C in an orange.
his result was something in the range of 10^48 m. the kid had just no sense at all for dimensions and did not understand he should see that that's an impossible figure. I understand he does quite well as a student of, I think, French language but I could be mistaken.
point is, some people should not be allowed anywhere near applied mathematics if there's even the slightest risk they will actually apply it.

there's no shame in knowing one's weaknesses.
I for one would not want to see the result of that kid trying to write a decent amortization table and would much rather he'd use a ready made excel sheet for that.

sometimes it's better to be able to apply other peoples intricate knowledge that to have a limited understanding of your own. (not to say it's ever bad to have an understanding of anything, but you'll get my point).

now I understand you are gifted with a mind for both the sciences and the arts and languages. that's great, and it's a lovely thing to have. just understand that other people can achieve great things with only one of those skills.

more important is to 1) be able to function on a basic level in everything and 2) know very, very well when to ask for another person's help instead.


I do like the way you talk about teaching math, it sounds good (addresses many of the issues with math teachers I've encountered anyway :)

458 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 6:59:55pm

re: #452 Cato the Elder

You get to vote.

Wow, you are really bitter that after announcing how proud you were of your profound ignorance you were not told it's ok to be proudly ignorant. That is a very teabag stance Cato.

The fact that it would be a breeze for you to earn, but you still bitch about it marks you as truly pathetic.

459 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:00:13pm

There are plenty of people in this country that don't have even the most basic knowledge of math. Many of them still serve very important functions in society. Not everyone can know everything.
I'm quite good at math, but I'm no scientist. If I need scientific analysis, I go to a scientist.
This is the reason that presidents surround themselves with advisors. Because they are experts in their respective fields.
I like to think that we all bring something different to the table. Who wants a boring, homogeneous populace?

460 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:00:56pm

re: #451 b_sharp

(x2 - 9) = (x-3)(x+3)

X2-3x+3x-9 = x - 9

What do I win?

Incomplete. You're going to have to graph that.

461 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:02:42pm

re: #452 Cato the Elder

You get to vote.

Bwahahahaha! Good one Cato!

462 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:02:59pm

wow, they still make RPN capable calculators? I thought that was dead, deadity dead dead long ago. wow.

463 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:05:22pm

re: #457 ThomasLite

ah, an amortization table. I concur you need some elementary math to make one.

Good!

however, I'm interested in why you'd want to write one yourself instead of getting it with the loan/mortgage when taken out/updated (they send out yearly updates on long-term loans usually, right?)

Because I don't trust other people's calculations with my money and nor should you!

when you have to replace a bulb, you do it yourself. when you have to redo half the wiring in the house, you hire skilled labor.

Basic math is not skilled labor!

blocked sink? do it yourself. install a new toilet? I'd do it myself but most would seek skilled help, and rightly so.

OK, but algebra is not skilled labor!

that goes for may other things: the days when you did everything yourself, when you could be totally self-sufficient are long gone.
I remember my dad (high school chem teacher) telling me about a student who had calculated the amount of vitamin C in an orange.
his result was something in the range of 10^48 m. the kid had just no sense at all for dimensions and did not understand he should see that that's an impossible figure. I understand he does quite well as a student of, I think, French language but I could be mistaken.
point is, some people should not be allowed anywhere near applied mathematics if there's even the slightest risk they will actually apply it.

That is sort of my entire main thesis here.

there's no shame in knowing one's weaknesses.

But most don't and feel no shame about spouting off about things they are unqualified to discuss anyway.

I for one would not want to see the result of that kid trying to write a decent amortization table and would much rather he'd use a ready made excel sheet for that.

Well I would prefer that he could make the sheet (him or her) self. No need to do it by hand. Big need to understand what it is.

sometimes it's better to be able to apply other peoples intricate knowledge that to have a limited understanding of your own. (not to say it's ever bad to have an understanding of anything, but you'll get my point).

Right, but we are ot talking about advanced knowledge. How does one know who an expert is without a very basic education? Otherwise it is all just magic.

now I understand you are gifted with a mind for both the sciences and the arts and languages. that's great, and it's a lovely thing to have. just understand that other people can achieve great things with only one of those skills.

I never said otherwise.

more important is to 1) be able to function on a basic level in everything and 2) know very, very well when to ask for another person's help instead.

Again the whole point I have been making from the start is about those who don't do that. Right, all those people who can't do algebra or calculus or differential equations, yet feel they are the equal to scientists etc...

I

do like the way you talk about teaching math, it sounds good (addresses many of the issues with math teachers I've encountered anyway :)

Thank you.

464 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:07:21pm

re: #459 tnguitarist

There are plenty of people in this country that don't have even the most basic knowledge of math. Many of them still serve very important functions in society. Not everyone can know everything.
I'm quite good at math, but I'm no scientist. If I need scientific analysis, I go to a scientist.
This is the reason that presidents surround themselves with advisors. Because they are experts in their respective fields.
I like to think that we all bring something different to the table. Who wants a boring, homogeneous populace?

How is algebra skills even remotely part of that discussion? Do you think the mathematics in science papers is all just applying the quadratic formula or something?

You are perhaps aware of several dozen topics after algebra - that are still taught in highschool?

I am not even talking about college level mathematics here.

How can you possibly think this is something advanced? This is exactly like saying that people need to be able to read.

465 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:08:22pm

re: #461 NJDhockeyfan

Bwahahahaha! Good one Cato!

That's ok, basic history, basic science and basic geography would be on the test too. You would surely be disqualified.

466 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:10:02pm

re: #464 LudwigVanQuixote

How is algebra skills even remotely part of that discussion? Do you think the mathematics in science papers is all just applying the quadratic formula or something?

You are perhaps aware of several dozen topics after algebra - that are still taught in highschool?

I am not even talking about college level mathematics here.

How can you possibly think this is something advanced? This is exactly like saying that people need to be able to read.

So, it's all good if we all know high school algebra and retain that knowledge?

467 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:10:25pm

re: #458 LudwigVanQuixote

Wow, you are really bitter that after announcing how proud you were of your profound ignorance you were not told it's ok to be proudly ignorant. That is a very teabag stance Cato.

The fact that it would be a breeze for you to earn [sic], but you still bitch about it marks you as truly pathetic.

Why should I feel obliged to earn, or learn, or re-earn or relearn, something just because you set it up as your personal shibboleth?

Explain that one and you will have solved the equation

L = Bt (-Cato)

which, in words, works out to "Ludwig equals better than the rest as long as Cato's not around to call him on his bullshit".

468 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:11:36pm

re: #465 LudwigVanQuixote

That's ok, basic history, basic science and basic geography would be on the test too. You would surely be disqualified.

Liar.

469 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:14:24pm

re: #466 tnguitarist

So, it's all good if we all know high school algebra and retain that knowledge?

No.

If you don't retain those skills you have no capacity to even remotely understand the scientific and technological issues facing our society and you have no chance of ever having them meaningfully explained to you.

And that makes you unqualified to voice any opinion on either.

re: #467 Cato the Elder

As to you Cato, seeing you defend the Palin side of the education debate is disgusting. You should be ashamed.

470 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:16:18pm

The ability to work out a problem using math is a skill that translates to other areas of life. We use that skill to build a structured approach to solving abstract problems and problems with many interlinked and related parts. Once learned, even if we eventually forget the rules of algebra through disuse, we retain the discipline gained through the practice of algebra and apply those analytical procedures to everyday life.

I use the problem solving skills I learned in math class every day when I fix a computer, printer or network.

471 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:17:49pm

re: #469 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #467 Cato the Elder

As to you Cato, seeing you defend the Palin side of the education debate is disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Oh, I am. So deeply ashamed. For wasting my remaining time. With a math fascist like you.

472 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:18:09pm

re: #468 NJDhockeyfan

Liar.

OK, explain in your own words, what entropy is.

Or how about this:

Recently Iran started fueling a heavy water reactor.

Why is a heavy water design such a big deal in terms of security?

Or how about this:

Explain to me the meaning of the fifth amendment and how that was designed to prevent torture of suspects?

Good luck!

473 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:20:22pm

re: #471 Cato the Elder

re: #467 Cato the Elder

As to you Cato, seeing you defend the Palin side of the education debate is disgusting. You should be ashamed.

Oh, I am. So deeply ashamed. For wasting my remaining time. With a math fascist like you.

Ohh I love that! Could you please call me math fascist from now on!

Or perhaps:

Tensor Tyrant! Multivariate Dictator! Matrix Machiavelli!

I am leaning to Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry though!

474 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:24:00pm

re: #463 LudwigVanQuixote

okay. well, I think a lot of people are better off using an excel sheet provided by, say, a consumer interest group than running their own math on it.
I would, sure. but I actually have enough of a grasp on numbers to trust my own calculations there.

a lot of people can learn enough algebra to apply it in a classroom, on a one paragraph story that gives them just the relevant numbers and fit it in a formula, or class of formulas that they have been taught in the weeks before.
that is different from applying it on a more complex situation, where they will not have the grasp to make that translation.
those people are NOT better off doing the calculations themselves; they are best off finding someone who is capable who can help them with that.

now understanding what an amortization table is is important. no doubt about that!
that falls in the category of knowing enough to recognize bullshit and to know who to listen to.
being able to do all those things oneself is certainly a boon, but not a basic necessity.

as for being qualified to make a point on matters scientific; I regard myself moderately so, largely because I have some actual eduction in that.
I don't think we differ in opinion there, and it seems you're forgetting you were writing a reply to me and not to Cato.
I have in my lurking here not often seen Cato make claims which would be invalidated by his lack of mathematical knowledge so I doubt it would apply to him either, but I agree people should not regard themselves the equal of experts on a field they know diddly squat about.
that's a long, long way away from the way you demean Cato for having taken a different route of academia and not caring much for math beyond what he needs, however.
it would be much like me deriding some of my friends in applied physics or EE of being total dumbasses for not understanding the intricacies of jurisprudence of the ECHR.
wildly important stuff for us europeans, directly relevant to a lot of the privacy or criminal law subjects they have (often comparatively uninformed) opinions on but I won't deride them for not studying that in as much detail.
you really should take a step backward and learn to appreciate the value of someone elses approach. with all due respect, of course.

475 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:24:13pm

I can and will have an opinion on any subject that I damn well please. So will people that can't read or write. So will geniuses. That's the bitch of a free country, even the crazies and idiots get to voice their concerns. You can view that as a feature or a bug.

476 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:24:29pm
477 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:25:35pm

re: #476 NJDhockeyfan

You've been caught lying on here a few times. Your posts mean nothing to me anymore. As far as I'm concerned you are a proven blatant liar so what you post is more than likely a lie. A couple nights ago you showed your bigoted side which now proves you are a lying bigot.

What have I ever lied about Hockey Puck...

You said I was lying when I said you wold not pass a basic history or science quiz...

And by the way, do take the quiz... Those are basic questions.

478 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:26:17pm

re: #476 NJDhockeyfan

You've been caught lying on here a few times. Your posts mean nothing to me anymore. As far as I'm concerned you are a proven blatant liar so what you post is more than likely a lie. A couple nights ago you showed your bigoted side which now proves you are a lying bigot.

And did I mention that everyone here, absolutely everyone, knows you are a wingnut and an uneducated moron?

479 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:26:27pm

re: #473 LudwigVanQuixote

I think "E=mC2" suits you best.

Math élitism equals moronic self-congratulation squared.

Go ahead, post your little test here for all of us to pass or fail!

Sciencey!

480 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:26:46pm

re: #473 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I love that! Could you please call me math fascist from now on!

Or perhaps:

Tensor Tyrant! Multivariate Dictator! Matrix Machiavelli!

I am leaning to Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry though!

okay I am sooo stealing "Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry"! re: #476 NJDhockeyfan

You've been caught lying on here a few times. Your posts mean nothing to me anymore. As far as I'm concerned you are a proven blatant liar so what you post is more than likely a lie. A couple nights ago you showed your bigoted side which now proves you are a lying bigot.

I think a link to a comment of Ludwig showing his more bigoted side is in order here. if you please.

481 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:28:10pm

re: #480 ThomasLite

okay I am sooo stealing "Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry"! re: #476 NJDhockeyfan

I think a link to a comment of Ludwig showing his more bigoted side is in order here. if you please.

Yes it rather would be, or perhaps one in which I lied about anything.

Like all good wingnuts, the Hockey puck thinks that repeating false smears is the equivalent of making a point.

482 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:28:42pm

re: #477 LudwigVanQuixote

What have I ever lied about Hockey Puck...

You lied about me and you know it. You've been caught lying about other lizards as well. You are becoming a joke on LGF with your angry rants. GFY

You said I was lying when I said you wold not pass a basic history or science quiz...

And by the way, do take the quiz... Those are basic questions.

Liar.

483 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:28:55pm

re: #476 NJDhockeyfan

Come on Puck...

About what?

484 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:29:21pm

re: #482 NJDhockeyfan

Liar.

Well we see that the puck is caught in a loop. This is typical of morons when challenged.

485 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:30:36pm

re: #475 tnguitarist

I can and will have an opinion on any subject that I damn well please. So will people that can't read or write. So will geniuses. That's the bitch of a free country, even the crazies and idiots get to voice their concerns. You can view that as a feature or a bug.

In the case of AGW, it will cause the collapse of our nation and the deaths of billions. That is called a self lethal defect.

486 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:31:28pm
487 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:32:13pm

Some opinions are informed, others are not. An informed opinion has more value to the speaker and the listener than an uninformed opinion. Some informed opinions take special knowledge and without that knowledge the best that opinion can be is semi-informed.

For questions of science, knowing math is an import part of that informed opinion. As science makes a bigger impact in our society, having an informed, as opposed to uninformed, opinion becomes more important.

There are many things in our lives that affect only our immediate friends and family where science opinions don't matter, but the larger world is increasingly under our control or at a minimum affect by our actions. When those effects start endangering all of us, and we need to make decisions that not only affect us but our children and their children, basing that decision on an informed opinion is paramount.

In the specific case of AGW, knowing the math would make it harder to be a denier.

488 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:33:32pm

re: #473 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I love that! Could you please call me math fascist from now on!

Or perhaps:

Tensor Tyrant! Multivariate Dictator! Matrix Machiavelli!

I am leaning to Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry though!

I vote for Multivariate Dictator.

489 tnguitarist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:37:20pm

re: #485 LudwigVanQuixote

In the case of AGW, it will cause the collapse of our nation and the deaths of billions. That is called a self lethal defect.

That's why I vote for people who understand how important climate change is. It's an extremely pressing issue that needs to be addressed immediately. We sure aren't going to be able to do that if we have to wait for everyone to get up to speed on their math.

490 zora  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:37:27pm

re: #473 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I love that! Could you please call me math fascist from now on!

Or perhaps:

Tensor Tyrant! Multivariate Dictator! Matrix Machiavelli!

I am leaning to Dread Lord of Non-Euclidean Geometry though!

Matrix Machiavelli has a nice ring, but is only appropriate if you also get a tatoo that says "scientist 4 life".

491 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:37:37pm

re: #472 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, explain in your own words, what entropy is.

Or how about this:

Recently Iran started fueling a heavy water reactor.

Why is a heavy water design such a big deal in terms of security?

Or how about this:

Explain to me the meaning of the fifth amendment and how that was designed to prevent torture of suspects?

Good luck!

entropy: state of chaos, disorder.
what I would like to know is how the HELL knowing what entropy is is remotely relevant to those in non-exact sciences.

A heavy water reactor design is a big deal because it inherently produces plutonium, IIRC.
that in turn can be used to build nukes.
as long as the russians keep taking the spent rods back I think it's a rather limited problem (though I would like to see the iranian government dealt with sooner rather than later, I'm just not as worried by this as some).
okay, that was slightly relevant.
however "reactor that produces plutonium that can be used for bombs" is quite an easy way to explain this without someone having to understand what a heavy water reactor is.
bit of a nasty way of putting the question. what's next, English majors having to understand the detailed functioning of 2nd generation nuclear reactors to an academic level?
heh, 5th amendment. I'll admit I had to read it up but I'm european, so that figures. not subject to US law, and all.
right to refrain from self-incrimination is what you're looking for. confession under torture pretty much takes that away.

okay. I get the last one, it's good common knowledge. then again it's rather superficial.
I mean, "what's entropy" seriously? how is that relevant?
I'd like to hear an explanation of that.

and @ NJDHockeyfan
yeah, I'm not going to read half a dozen threads to verify an unbased accusation. if you have a link for me I'd be happy to read it and make up my mind fairly.

492 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:39:10pm

re: #484 LudwigVanQuixote

Well we see that the puck is caught in a loop. This is typical of morons when challenged.

I disagree with NJD 99% of the time, but calling him a moron is a bit SOLish.

I am still waiting for him to show you lied though, and unless he does that, I may join you in disparaging his intellect.

493 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:46:34pm

re: #491 ThomasLite

Well knowing something about entropy has everything to do with understanding why AGW deniers and anti-evolution deniers are complete hacks. It affects your public school system and knowledge of climate changes that could kill you. And your definition was rather lacking.

As far as posing heavy water reactor in a nasty way, hardly. Other designs would be less threatening and it is directly germane to any question how much risk Iran poses.

494 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:47:16pm

re: #490 zora

Matrix Machiavelli has a nice ring, but is only appropriate if you also get a tatoo that says "scientist 4 life".

Ohh dude. In big gothic Gangsta letters on my tummy!

495 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:47:35pm

re: #488 b_sharp

I vote for Multivariate Dictator.

Hehehe

496 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:49:19pm

I'm going to take a random leap here, and bet dollars to Chinese doughnuts that the guy who tried to kill any number of people in Silver Spring today could have done any god's quantity of algebraic equations, in his head, right before he went and tried to kill those people.

Math skills are no test of whether or not you're an idiot.

497 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:51:05pm

re: #496 Cato the Elder

At least you're not saying Al Gore made him do it anymore :P

498 ThomasLite  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:52:22pm

yeah I know my definition was lacking. it's 5 AM here and I had trouble putting it into words; I understand it a bit better.
I get where you're going with understanding why entropy can explain why such things are nonsense but then you'd need to not only understand what entropy is but also understand what it does in such a system.
you are NOT going to be able to explain that to 50+% of the population. sorry.

the reason why there's a heavy water reactor is that construction of this design reactor was started when the shah was still firmly in power; it's been halted for ages and ages. finishing it was the logical thing to do.
and okay, I'll grant you that I too would rather have seen a less risky design built there (if only for their own safety, the thing is hopelessly outdated...) but reality tends to be somewhat less than ideal, most of the time.
I still don't understand why it's important for the general public to understand what a heavy water reactor is, though. that is just way beyond reason.
your rationale for entropy I can get into, I'll concede that point.

and with that, since it is, as I said, 5 AM here, I'm off to bed.
was an interesting discussion, gentlemen! g'night.

499 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:52:44pm

re: #491 ThomasLite


NJDHockeyfan
yeah, I'm not going to read half a dozen threads to verify an unbased accusation. if you have a link for me I'd be happy to read it and make up my mind fairly.

He pissed off the entire thread. He has no respect for anyone but himself. If you don't agree with him he hurls insults at you.

Here is one of the posts. I won't waste your time with reposting all of them.

I like them bitching about elitists... Yes with all of that education and intelligence, thinking they know more and are smarter than good, trailer trash like the Beck crowd!

The people of Wallmart deserve respect too!

How dare those elitists look down on ignorant, dull witted and incoherent swine from the dregs of America?!?

So many slack jaws. So few coherent thoughts. Where do I start?

The great failure of our democracy is that we have allowed morons, superstitious freaks, paranoid delusionals and general low class scum balls the same voice as productive people.

Think about it. Those people in those interviews have barely a functioning 5th grade education. By what sane standard does their vote count the same as someone who isn't mentally deficient?

LVQ has no class.

500 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:52:55pm

re: #497 windsagio

At least you're not saying Al Gore made him do it anymore :P

Geh kakn oyfn yam, multi-illiterate clown.

501 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:53:07pm

re: #496 Cato the Elder

I'm going to take a random leap here, and bet dollars to Chinese doughnuts that the guy who tried to kill any number of people in Silver Spring today could have done any god's quantity of algebraic equations, in his head, right before he went and tried to kill those people.

Math skills are no test of whether or not you're an idiot.

Cato, that is really weak. You should be ashamed of yourself. I mean did you know that many Nazis could do calculus! What about Werner Van Braun?

But wait, George Washington, John Adams, Ben Franklin and Jefferson all loved calculus and used to pose integrals to each other as challenges.

Whatever does that mean.

Dude, that was a Beck grade argument you just made. You see, if you had better math skills, you would know how to apply a Venn Diagram, and your argument would not have been so stupid!

For the record,

I never said that mathematical ability, even basic math made someone good or moral.

But knowing math would keep you from saying such dumb things.

502 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:54:08pm

re: #496 Cato the Elder

I'm going to take a random leap here, and bet dollars to Chinese doughnuts that the guy who tried to kill any number of people in Silver Spring today could have done any god's quantity of algebraic equations, in his head, right before he went and tried to kill those people.

Math skills are no test of whether or not you're an idiot.

Meet Ted Kaczynski:

Kaczynski graduated from Harvard University in 1962 and subsequently enrolled at the University of Michigan, where he earned a PhD in mathematics. Kaczynski's specialty was a branch of complex analysis known as geometric function theory. His professors at Michigan were impressed with his intellect and drive. "He was an unusual person. He was not like the other graduate students," said Peter Duren, one of Kaczynski's math professors at Michigan. "He was much more focused about his work. He had a drive to discover mathematical truth." "It is not enough to say he was smart," said George Piranian, another of his Michigan math professors. In fact, Kaczynski earned his Ph.D. with his thesis entitled "Boundary Functions" by solving a problem so difficult that Piranian could not figure it out. Maxwell Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee, also commented on his thesis by noting, "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it." In 1967, Kaczynski won the University of Michigan's $100 Sumner B. Myers Prize, which recognized his dissertation as the school's best in mathematics that year. While a graduate student at Michigan, he held a National Science Foundation fellowship and taught undergraduates for three years. He also published two articles related to his dissertation in mathematical journals, and four more after leaving Michigan later.

Better known as "the Unabomber."

503 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:54:53pm

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

He pissed off the entire thread. He has no respect for anyone but himself. If you don't agree with him he hurls insults at you.

Here is one of the posts. I won't waste your time with reposting all of them.

LVQ has no class.

OK, so what is racist about that or bigoted? That was in reference to people interviewed from the Beck Rally.

Yes I suppose you are right, I do look down on racist ignorant dregs of America who are incoherent and actively trying to destroy my nation.

504 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:55:47pm

re: #492 b_sharp

I disagree with NJD 99% of the time, but calling him a moron is a bit SOLish.

I am still waiting for him to show you lied though, and unless he does that, I may join you in disparaging his intellect.

About 4 or 5 weeks ago he claimed I defend Rush, Beck and racists all the time. When I called him a liar and asked him to prove it he left. He's reminds me of the bullies I went to school with.

505 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:56:01pm

re: #502 elbruce

But wait a minute!

John Adams liked math and graduated from Harvard too! Clearly he was the Quincy version of the Unabomber!

Asshole.

506 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:56:46pm

re: #504 NJDhockeyfan

About 4 or 5 weeks ago he claimed I defend Rush, Beck and racists all the time. When I called him a liar and asked him to prove it he left. He's reminds me of the bullies I went to school with.

Ummm you do. Really, how about we let Charles chime in on how many times you have written that something odious that Rush said was actually satire?

Moron.

507 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:58:30pm

re: #503 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, so what is racist about that or bigoted? That was in reference to people interviewed from the Beck Rally.

Yes I suppose you are right, I do look down on racist ignorant dregs of America who are incoherent and actively trying to destroy my nation.

Until today, I never thought I would think of you as one of them.

Have you ever explored the ins and outs of being a technocrat?

Hint: the Nazis loved those guys.

508 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 7:59:10pm

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

And by the way, how was that a case of me lying?

509 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:00:17pm

re: #507 Cato the Elder

Until today, I never thought I would think of you as one of them.

Have you ever explored the ins and outs of being a technocrat?

Hint: the Nazis loved those guys.

I get that you are getting emotional.

But if you ever compare me to a Nazi again, I will put you on the same list that Bagua went on and deservedly so.

510 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:00:34pm

re: #503 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, so what is racist about that or bigoted? That was in reference to people interviewed from the Beck Rally.

Yes I suppose you are right, I do look down on racist ignorant dregs of America who are incoherent and actively trying to destroy my nation.

You were insulting people who work at Walmart. You think they are slack jaws who have few coherent thoughts. You got -11 on that post. Your hateful bigoted remarks were not appreciated that night.

511 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:01:29pm

re: #506 LudwigVanQuixote

Ummm you do. Really, how about we let Charles chime in on how many times you have written that something odious that Rush said was actually satire?

Moron.

Repeating your lies? Prove it asshole.

512 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:03:10pm

re: #509 LudwigVanQuixote

I get that you are getting emotional.

But if you ever compare me to a Nazi again, I will put you on the same list that Bagua went on and deservedly so.

You earn every insult you get. Do you think you are the only one allowed to spew garbage about other lizards?

513 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:03:20pm

re: #510 NJDhockeyfan

You were insulting people who work at Walmart. You think they are slack jaws who have few coherent thoughts. You got -11 on that post. Your hateful bigoted remarks were not appreciated that night.

OK, how does that mean I lied about anything?

While we are at it, what makes you think that popularity affects the truth or falsehood of what I say.

You called me a liar about 5 times recently Puck. Where have I ever lied about anything?

Really? Where?

And, what group was I bigoted towards?

514 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:04:19pm

re: #498 ThomasLite

yeah I know my definition was lacking. it's 5 AM here and I had trouble putting it into words; I understand it a bit better.
I get where you're going with understanding why entropy can explain why such things are nonsense but then you'd need to not only understand what entropy is but also understand what it does in such a system.
you are NOT going to be able to explain that to 50+% of the population. sorry.

the reason why there's a heavy water reactor is that construction of this design reactor was started when the shah was still firmly in power; it's been halted for ages and ages. finishing it was the logical thing to do.
and okay, I'll grant you that I too would rather have seen a less risky design built there (if only for their own safety, the thing is hopelessly outdated...) but reality tends to be somewhat less than ideal, most of the time.
I still don't understand why it's important for the general public to understand what a heavy water reactor is, though. that is just way beyond reason.
your rationale for entropy I can get into, I'll concede that point.

and with that, since it is, as I said, 5 AM here, I'm off to bed.
was an interesting discussion, gentlemen! g'night.

Entropy. Is that where there are gazillions of states that look completely fucked up and only a few that look cool and neat, so that with any throw of the dice you're more likely to end up looking fucked up?

515 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:04:37pm

re: #507 Cato the Elder

Nope. You're not a Nazi. I would never say that.

You're an eco-fascist technocrat in spe.

516 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:04:38pm

re: #512 NJDhockeyfan

You earn every insult you get. Do you think you are the only one allowed to spew garbage about other lizards?

Look, I am about at my patience end with you. Where did I ever lie about anything and what did I ever say was bigoted?


And if you are telling me that I deserve to be called a Nazi for thinking that Americans ought to know algebra, you are even more pathetic than I thought.

517 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:05:20pm

re: #514 b_sharp

Entropy. Is that where there are gazillions of states that look completely fucked up and only a few that look cool and neat, so that with any throw of the dice you're more likely to end up looking fucked up?

He takes the canonical ensemble view! Excellent!

518 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:06:29pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

That was meant for Ludwig, as he appears tonight.

I have no doubt he'll eventually walk it back.

519 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:06:51pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

Nope. You're not a Nazi. I would never say that.

You're an eco-fascist technocrat in spe.

And you are an asshole who knows he went way over the line. Assume yourself permanently hated Cato.

520 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:06:58pm

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

He pissed off the entire thread. He has no respect for anyone but himself. If you don't agree with him he hurls insults at you.

Here is one of the posts. I won't waste your time with reposting all of them.

LVQ has no class.

Where's the lie?

I see frustration, anger, a bit of hyper-confidence (arrogance), but nothing more than any other scientist I know. I certainly don't see the lie.

521 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:07:04pm

re: #513 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, how does that mean I lied about anything?

While we are at it, what makes you think that popularity affects the truth or falsehood of what I say.

You called me a liar about 5 times recently Puck. Where have I ever lied about anything?

Really? Where?

And, what group was I bigoted towards?

Are you fucking dense or something? You lied about what I post on here trying to make me look bad. Nobody is buying your bullshit any more.

I think you know why you were called a bigot that night. Don't play stupid.

522 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:08:17pm

re: #518 Cato the Elder

That was meant for Ludwig, as he appears tonight.

I have no doubt he'll eventually walk it back.

No, I refrain from thinking of knocking your teeth in, but I will not walk back anything I have said tonight.

You really are an asshole Cato.

523 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:09:00pm

re: #519 LudwigVanQuixote

And you are an asshole who knows he went way over the line. Assume yourself permanently hated Cato.

So be it.

I shall not die of your baseless hatred.

524 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:09:12pm

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

Are you fucking dense or something? You lied about what I post on here trying to make me look bad. Nobody is buying your bullshit any more.

I think you know why you were called a bigot that night. Don't play stupid.

Puck it seems you are getting caught in a lie here.

Where have I been lying?

525 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:09:21pm

re: #502 elbruce

Meet Ted Kaczynski:

Better known as "the Unabomber."

No one claimed knowing math made you 'good' or 'bad'. Knowing math just gives you skills that will help you make solid decisions in certain areas.

526 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:09:53pm

re: #516 LudwigVanQuixote


And if you are telling me that I deserve to be called a Nazi for thinking that Americans ought to know algebra, you are even more pathetic than I thought.

Quit crying you big baby. Cato didn't call you a Nazi.

527 windsagio  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:09:58pm

re: #523 Cato the Elder

It seems like hatred is food to you.

528 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:10:28pm

re: #523 Cato the Elder

So be it.

I shall not die of your baseless hatred.

You dare quote that at me? With no clue of what it means... You are total putz.

Cato, it would really be best if you simply shut up.

529 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:11:35pm

re: #526 NJDhockeyfan

Quit crying you big baby. Cato didn't call you a Nazi.

As to you,

Your days here are numbered. No one here cares for wingnuts like you anymore and the stalker blog will gladly take you.

530 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:11:38pm

re: #524 LudwigVanQuixote

Puck it seems you are getting caught in a lie here.

Where have I been lying?

You lied about me. Look at what I wrote. Reading if fundamental!

531 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:12:45pm

re: #530 NJDhockeyfan

You lied about me. Look at what I wrote. Reading if fundamental!

I wrote that you are wingnut apologist for Beck and Rush. I wrote that you supported water boarding and torture.

I look forward to your eventual flounce.

You are a wingnut asshole and always have been.

532 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:12:53pm

yall mad at something itt?

533 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:17:20pm

re: #528 LudwigVanQuixote

You dare quote that at me? With no clue of what it means... You are total putz.

Cato, it would really be best if you simply shut up.

What?

Before, when I talked Judaism with you, you were all gushy and updingy and stuff.

Now, after I've admitted a personal weakness, that is, having forgotten fucking algebra after forty years, I am not worthy?

Carry on, Lord of Remulak. Indignitati te salutamus.

534 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:18:06pm

re: #411 elbruce

Do I really need to say //SARCASM in big bold letters for *everyone* here?

535 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:18:19pm

re: #507 Cato the Elder

Until today, I never thought I would think of you as one of them.

Have you ever explored the ins and outs of being a technocrat?

Hint: the Nazis loved those guys.

Yes and evolution is wrong because Hitler liked Darwin.

Can the bullshit Nazi comments. Leave that to the racist tea partiers.

536 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:18:24pm

re: #533 Cato the Elder

What?

Before, when I talked Judaism with you, you were all gushy and updingy and stuff.

Now, after I've admitted a personal weakness, that is, having forgotten fucking algebra after forty years, I am not worthy?

Carry on, Lord of Remulak. Indignitati te salutamus.

Cato... please... can't you see that 2+2 = banging your head against a brick wall :)

537 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:18:31pm

re: #533 Cato the Elder

What?

Before, when I talked Judaism with you, you were all gushy and updingy and stuff.

Now, after I've admitted a personal weakness, that is, having forgotten fucking algebra after forty years, I am not worthy?

Carry on, Lord of Remulak. Indignitati te salutamus.

That is before you were respectful.

Look, I am knocking this off. Consider it a victory on your part. It really no longer matters.

538 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:20:33pm

re: #535 b_sharp

Can the bullshit Nazi comments.

NAZI COMPARISON NAZI!

///

539 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:21:06pm

re: #531 LudwigVanQuixote

I wrote that you are wingnut apologist for Beck and Rush. I wrote that you supported water boarding and torture.

I look forward to your eventual flounce.

You are a wingnut asshole and always have been.

Keep lying. Keep it up. More and more people on here find you a hateful disgusting person.

540 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:22:48pm

re: #511 NJDhockeyfan

Repeating your lies? Prove it asshole.

Have you ever excused Beck or Rush for their comments? If you did, that could be construed as supporting them. It could be a case of distorted understanding.

541 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:23:39pm

re: #537 LudwigVanQuixote

That is before you were respectful.

Look, I am knocking this off. Consider it a victory on your part. It really no longer matters.

It really doesn't.

Except in the sense that you have repeatedly revealed yourself to be a math-hole.

542 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:25:18pm

re: #540 b_sharp

Have you ever excused Beck or Rush for their comments? If you did, that could be construed as supporting them. It could be a case of distorted understanding.

No I haven't. Never. It's a complete lie spread by a hateful little man.

543 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:25:45pm

re: #539 NJDhockeyfan

Third man in a fight is a game misconduct. Too bad that rule applies only to hockey. Why couldn't you leave this between LVQ and Cato?

544 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:26:30pm

re: #541 Cato the Elder

It really doesn't.

Except in the sense that you have repeatedly revealed yourself to be a math-hole.

Math-hole? Ha ha ha ha! I never heard that one before.

545 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:27:04pm

re: #543 Reginald Perrin

Third man in a fight is a game misconduct. Too bad that rule applies only to hockey. Why couldn't you leave this between LVQ and Cato?

Who are you, the referee?

546 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:28:05pm

re: #523 Cato the Elder

So be it.

I shall not die of your baseless hatred.

Over the top Cato.

547 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:29:16pm

re: #525 b_sharp

No one claimed knowing math made you 'good' or 'bad'. Knowing math just gives you skills that will help you make solid decisions in certain areas.

Very certain areas.

Look, the thing is that a lot of people who believe really, really crazy things function completely normally in society. They publish books, have radio shows, and can feed, clothe and dress themselves. They blend into society. They talk on FOX News wearing suits as if they were real experts on things instead of crazy people. You might never have even the least clue that someone who seemed perfectly competent was actually batshit unless you asked him directly whether Nancy Pelosi is placing microscopic transmitters in our teeth.

And as inexplicable as this is, the educational level of tea party supporters actually happens to be better than average overall. Which means that they'd actually have a better chance of passing LVQ's voter registration test than the average anybody-else. Which means that teabaggers would actually have more political power under such a testing scheme.

It doesn't make any sense at all. Human brains are weird and wonderful things, is all I can say.

The only way you could design a test to keep out the crazies would be to make all of the questions on it blatantly political, rather than academic. And hopefully we can all agree that such a scheme would lead directly to a totalitarian two-class regime. If not, I still call dibs on the job of designing the test.

548 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:31:06pm

re: #531 re: #530

I downdinged both of you, and not simply because I can.

549 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:32:15pm

re: #545 NJDhockeyfan

Who are you, the referee?

Just an interested observer, I study trolls and troll like behavior.
Wasn't it rather silly to jump into LVQ's and Cato's little flame war? You may want to be careful, it makes you appear petty and childish.

550 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:34:44pm

re: #542 NJDhockeyfan

No I haven't. Never. It's a complete lie spread by a hateful little man.

In that case I'm confused.

551 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:37:48pm

re: #547 elbruce

Very certain areas.

Look, the thing is that a lot of people who believe really, really crazy things function completely normally in society. They publish books, have radio shows, and can feed, clothe and dress themselves. They blend into society. They talk on FOX News wearing suits as if they were real experts on things instead of crazy people. You might never have even the least clue that someone who seemed perfectly competent was actually batshit unless you asked him directly whether Nancy Pelosi is placing microscopic transmitters in our teeth.

And as inexplicable as this is, the educational level of tea party supporters actually happens to be better than average overall. Which means that they'd actually have a better chance of passing LVQ's voter registration test than the average anybody-else. Which means that teabaggers would actually have more political power under such a testing scheme.

It doesn't make any sense at all. Human brains are weird and wonderful things, is all I can say.

The only way you could design a test to keep out the crazies would be to make all of the questions on it blatantly political, rather than academic. And hopefully we can all agree that such a scheme would lead directly to a totalitarian two-class regime. If not, I still call dibs on the job of designing the test.

With my education in Psych and CS, I think I should design the test. Only Lady Ada would pass.

552 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:39:15pm

re: #550 b_sharp

In that case I'm confused.

No problem. This has been simmering for weeks. I think we had to blow off some steam to get it off our chests.

553 abolitionist  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:40:54pm

To all arguing here about how much higher-level math is required to qualify one as educated, may I introduce Michael Faraday.

Although Faraday received little formal education and knew little of higher mathematics, such as calculus, he was one of the most influential scientists in history. Some historians[3] of science refer to him as the best experimentalist in the history of science.[4] The SI unit of capacitance, the farad, is named after him, as is the Faraday constant, the charge on a mole of electrons (about 96,485 coulombs). Faraday's law of induction states that magnetic flux changing in time creates a proportional electromotive force.

Faraday was the first and foremost Fullerian Professor of Chemistry at the Royal Institution of Great Britain, a position to which he was appointed for life.

Albert Einstein kept a photograph of Faraday on his study wall alongside pictures of Isaac Newton and James Clerk Maxwell.[5]

It takes all sorts of good people to make a good world.

554 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:43:43pm

Algebra is not only easy, people do it all the time without realizing it. Even Cato, probably.

555 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:44:21pm

re: #550 b_sharp

In that case I'm confused.

Of course he has. He also routinely defends water boarding.

It would take some digging to find the posts, but of course he is lying.

556 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:51:23pm

Cato, Cato, Cato,
hates Plato, Plato, Plato,
'cause Plate hated the idea of a poet!

Plato's dusty prose doth show it.

Oh, and because he was a geek
who thought that speaking Greek
made him better than a Roman.

Doncha know it?

557 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 8:54:55pm

I think these were the missing terms in this thread:

Necessary vs. sufficient

Understanding vs. doing.

I think Cato does understand algebra, even if he couldn't sit down at a formal problem and do one.

If someone really can't do algebra, they really will spend their whole life getting ripped off and making bad decisions when it comes to financial transactions, etc.

So, simply by rote memory if nothing else, most people learn algebra defensively. Even if not formally.

558 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:04:52pm

re: #557 Obdicut

I think these were the missing terms in this thread:

Necessary vs. sufficient

Understanding vs. doing.

I think Cato does understand algebra, even if he couldn't sit down at a formal problem and do one.

If someone really can't do algebra, they really will spend their whole life getting ripped off and making bad decisions when it comes to financial transactions, etc.

So, simply by rote memory if nothing else, most people learn algebra defensively. Even if not formally.

Bullshit.

Many people who don't know algebra spend their very profitable lives ripping off those who do.

It's got nothing to do with math, and everything to do with ethics.

If I'm a ripper-offer, I don't have to know algebra, I just hire some math weenie who does. And then I show him what happened to the last math weenie who tried to rip me off.

And then I hire an even more hungry, stupid math weenie to do the math on the new one.

If I'm a likely rippoffee, I do the same, without the threats part.

Ludwig would make an aptitude into a requirement, and I do not hold with that.

559 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:06:07pm

re: #558 Cato the Elder

You didn't understand what I said, apparently.

560 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:08:32pm

re: #559 Obdicut

Quite. 'Cause I'm not a math weenie.

Or maybe I did, and you just didn't get my non-mathy reply.

561 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:09:49pm

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course he has. He also routinely defends water boarding.

It would take some digging to find the posts, but of course he is lying.

In terms of Beck/Rush specifically, he's said he doesn't listen to them (see here and here for examples). In terms of waterboarding and torture, he's said this and this.

562 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:11:33pm

re: #561 publicityStunted

In terms of Beck/Rush specifically, he's said he doesn't listen to them (see here and here for examples). In terms of waterboarding and torture, he's said this and this.

Look a little further. I really wish that some of the longer time lizards would just back me up on common knowledge at this board and not let him get away with lying about his record.

563 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:12:10pm

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course he has. He also routinely defends water boarding.

It would take some digging to find the posts, but of course he is lying.

I do not have a problem with those terrorist scum at Gitmo getting waterboarded. So what? I never said I didn't support it.

Your original post about me:

re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe I've been missing a lot of his posts, but since when has NJDhockeyfan been a defender of racism?

Everytime he has defended Rush, or Beck or a teabagger's racist comments. Everytime he has trivialized the very real problems with the teabag's racism with his pitiful yelps of the left did it too in a vain attempt to recast the conversation. When he defended the Az law... When he defended the Obama /witch doctor sign. Really, do you want to get into this?

I see 5 lies on there. You are a complete fraud as far as I'm concerned.

564 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:12:35pm

re: #560 Cato the Elder

Quite. 'Cause I'm not a math weenie.

Or maybe I did, and you just didn't get my non-mathy reply.

Dude, you do realize that you are now writing on the level of "I won't do my math homework and I won't eat my vegetables either!"

Why the fuck am I even bothering?

565 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:13:52pm

re: #563 NJDhockeyfan

I do not have a problem with those terrorist scum at Gitmo getting waterboarded. So what? I never said I didn't support it.

Your original post about me:

Everytime he has defended Rush, or Beck or a teabagger's racist comments. Everytime he has trivialized the very real problems with the teabag's racism with his pitiful yelps of the left did it too in a vain attempt to recast the conversation. When he defended the Az law... When he defended the Obama /witch doctor sign. Really, do you want to get into this?

I see 5 lies on there. You are a complete fraud as far as I'm concerned.

You know what asshole, I will track down your posts. You don't courage of you convictions. You might be able to fool some of the newbies but ont anyone who's been here a while.

566 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:21:13pm

re: #565 LudwigVanQuixote

I see 5 lies on there. You are a complete fraud as far as I'm concerned.

You know what asshole, I will track down your posts. You don't courage of you convictions. You might be able to fool some of the newbies but ont anyone who's been here a while.

Go ahead. Look all night long. You wont find anything to support your post because it's full of lies.

567 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:22:28pm

re: #564 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude, you do realize that you are now writing on the level of "I won't do my math homework and I won't eat my vegetables either!"

Why the fuck am I even bothering?

Because you want me to eat my eco-fascist vegetables, and you will have an apoplectic fit if I don't?

Have fun being a parent, apparently.

568 elbruce  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 9:51:21pm

re: #563 NJDhockeyfan

I do not have a problem with those terrorist scum at Gitmo getting waterboarded. So what? I never said I didn't support it.

I'm going to throw this out for consideration: nobody in Gitmo is a terrorist. Not one. There, now I have provided exactly as much evidence as you have. So we're even. Since it's a tie, they shouldn't be waterboarded.

Let's add this while we're at it: yo' momma is a terrorist. She should be waterboarded. The fact that I don't have any proof for this assertion is immaterial, as you haven't provided any proof regarding the detainees either. If you believe they should, then you must agree that she should too.

The only impartial way to settle it would be maybe to have some sort of system where evidence of an accusation can be brought forth, answered or explained, and fairly considered under rules designed to reduce bias - before we engaged in intentional harm to people in our custody... such as your Islamofascist mother. We could call it a "court" or something. Might be a good idea. Good thing our founding fathers thought of it. Heck, they made it a requirement.

What I'm getting at here, is you're advocating harming people who have not been proven to have committed any crime. You can stomp your feet all day and call them ter'rists, but that doesn't make it true. That's not how truth is determined.

I will bet you anything that I could waterboard you into confessing to terrorist activity. That means you're terrorist scum. And why should anybody listen to a political opinion given by terrorist scum, such as that we should waterboard people?

569 elizajane  Wed, Sep 1, 2010 10:00:01pm

re: #562 LudwigVanQuixote

Look a little further. I really wish that some of the longer time lizards would just back me up on common knowledge at this board and not let him get away with lying about his record.

I'm not a long-time lizard but, take a deep breath please! You have better things to do than hang out here arguing over algebra. Wait for a better fight to fight.

Algebra! It was all over my house today. 15-year-old daughter, far from math-whiz, agonizing through it while her 14-year-old sister and 20-year-old boy nextdoor tried to tell her that it wasn't that hard.
My oldest daughter is a bright girl but if she makes it through Algebra, she will certainly forget it by the time she's in her 20s. Nevertheless she will be a responsible voter. And she will definitely understand AGW.

570 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 12:56:42am

re: #172 elbruce

Not me. Sending this guy to the Discovery Channel's building was the first salvo in declaring War On America (tm). They Hate Our Freedoms (tm). If we allow even one squirrel to run free after this, then we're just asking to be killed en masse by their madness.

At work, when I'm in the back room on the computer, I love it when the squirrels run by on the ledge. Those little suckers are FAST. And unlike my clients, they have good reason to be associated with nuts.

571 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:13:24am

re: #357 Reginald Perrin

I want to play the devil's advocate. Suppose instead of all voters being tested, reduce it to the electorate who wanted to vote in Senate elections tested. I bet having an informed electorate would most likely lead to a better quality of candidate from both parties.

Nope, just smarter and fewer people voting for the same low quality of candidate. "Smart" people can be manipulated just as much as their "dumb" counterparts; it just takes a higher grade of manipulation. IMO the quality of candidate would be the same, but you'd need a better grade of handler.

572 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:19:29am

re: #381 reuven

Misspelling of environmentalist courtesy of ABC news. (What has happened to journalistic standards?) See [Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Proof-reading (and fact-checking) costs money and takes time, which are the same thing since time is money. It also assumes that someone in the newsroom of the newspaper/station/network/Web Site knows how to spell, check facts, use proper grammar, etc. Or even gives a crap about it.

No, proof-reading and fact-checking are dead. If one uses them, one can't be FIRST!!!, and FIRST!!! is everything. Accuracy and form are for us olde farte types.

573 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:25:41am

re: #409 rwdflynavy

Fortunately I can do basic algebra, as you state, it is fairly important in my field.

If you drive a car, you're doing a lot of algebra IMO. Lots of equations, only you're not looking for an exact answer, just a high-probability approximation.

Of course, in your line of work, approximate isn't good enough.

574 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:38:03am

re: #214 EmmmieG

Math question:

(I don't recall doing this in school, but I liked this problem when I saw it. So tidy.)

What is 16 to the 3/4 power?

Since no one else volunteered an answer, I'm going with my long dormant but once-formidable skills in mathematics to take an almost wild guess of--

8

575 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:44:45am

re: #560 Cato the Elder

Quite. 'Cause I'm not a math weenie.

Or maybe I did, and you just didn't get my non-mathy reply.

I'm not a 'math weenie' either, Cato. I can do math, but I'm mainly an language and literacy guy.

Though, of course, you've frequently (and inaccurately)€ belittled me on that front, too, like the charmer you are.

It is really odd to me that you're so damn sensitive on this front, given how much abuse and shit you've handed other people on the English language front and history front you've handed out over time.

Hopefully this new sensitivity will inform your future behavior.

576 friarstale  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:20:35am

re: #570 ClaudeMonet

At work, when I'm in the back room on the computer, I love it when the squirrels run by on the ledge. Those little suckers are FAST. And unlike my clients, they have good reason to be associated with nuts.

I'm not afraid of heights... I'm afraid of widths
Steven Wright

577 Øyvind Strømmen  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:34:29am

I'm not really surprised that radical squirrelists are nuts. It's sort of a given.

578 shreck  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:28:18am

He didn't much like the troops.


[Link: www.flickr.com...]

579 huggy77  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:06:24am

re: #529 LudwigVanQuixote

Did anyone else read this using the Darth Vader voice? Having a blog full of leftists just agreeing with each other is kind of boring. The appeal of this blog is that even though it has gone far far left, you still get some good discussion between people of different ideologies.

Basic algebra was essential in construction of the Death Star... And we all know how that turned out....

on a serious note, obdicut made a great point about using algebra all the time and just not knowing it.

Pro Tip: Name calling never wins an argument....

580 Cato the Elder  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:07:09am

re: #575 Obdicut

I'm not a 'math weenie' either, Cato. I can do math, but I'm mainly an language and literacy guy.

Though, of course, you've frequently (and inaccurately)€ belittled me on that front, too, like the charmer you are.

It is really odd to me that you're so damn sensitive on this front, given how much abuse and shit you've handed other people on the English language front and history front you've handed out over time.

Hopefully this new sensitivity will inform your future behavior.

I'm not sensitive, you tool, I'm making fun of Ludwig. As I will of you again soon, so try not to feel all neglected.

581 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 11:34:01am

re: #580 Cato the Elder

I'm not sensitive, you tool, I'm making fun of Ludwig. As I will of you again soon, so try not to feel all neglected.


Yeah. The guy who fake-flounced isn't sensitive. The guy who just blew up because someone suggested that maybe learning basic math would be a good idea isn't sensitive.

I kind of hope drinking was involved in this debacle on your part.

582 Dan M.  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 5:02:32pm

So, if there's anti-Muslim violence, or any violence motivated by any "right wing" cause, it's always "Look at all these violent right wingers!!!!11!!1111" or "We know this racist is a right winger because he hated the Fed!!!1!!!1!" even when the guy hated the Fed for the the complete opposite of the reasons behind today's vitriol against the Fed.

When it's an environmentalist wacko, it's "He can't be a leftist because he's a racist!"

Pathetic.

583 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 2, 2010 7:54:04pm

Image: facepalm.jpg


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