Not a Dry Run

I think this is an innocent case of erring on the side of safety. That is different than incarcerating people without charges for indefinite periods in order to feel "on the safe side".

But are we really sure that Pepto-Bismol cannot be used as an explosive component?

Varek Raith Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:29:30am

re: #4 ralphieboy

I think this is an innocent case of erring on the side of safety. That is different than incarcerating people without charges for indefinite periods in order to feel "on the safe side".

But are we really sure that Pepto-Bismol cannot be used as an explosive component?

It's used to prevent explosions...

_RememberTonyC Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:29:57am

re: #3 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure they will lawyer up.

for sure ... cair is on the case ... and speaking of them .... whatever became of the lawsuit from the flying mullahs?

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:30:40am

re: #6 _RememberTonyC

for sure ... cair is on the case ... and speaking of them ... whatever became of the lawsuit from the flying mullahs?

IIRC, The Flying Imams won. Not sure what.

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:32:07am

re: #7 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, The Flying Imams won. Not sure what.

From The Weekly Standard.

The case of the flying imams who were removed in November 2006 from a USAirways flight in Minneapolis for questioning by law enforcement authorities concluded in the Minnesota federal district court before Judge Ann Montgomery. The parties arrived at a settlement of the case on October 20 in a court-supervised conference. The amounts paid by the defendants remain confidential.

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:32:10am

Well, I guess we have to find a way to demonize these men regardless. That being by presupposing that they will sue claiming grounds of "unfair profiling." They haven't even been released from custody yet.

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:33:39am

re: #9 Gus 802

Well, I guess we have to find a way to demonize these men regardless. That being by presupposing that they will sue claiming grounds of "unfair profiling." They haven't even been released from custody yet.

From the link:
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi and Hezam al Murisi were arrested during a United Flight from Chicago to Amsterdam Monday. They were released without charges.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:34:48am

How soon until wise guys with lawyers start wearing turbans on flights hoping to get hassled so they can sue the airlines for a nice settlement?

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:34:50am

re: #10 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the link:
Ahmed Mohamed Nasser al Soofi and Hezam al Murisi were arrested during a United Flight from Chicago to Amsterdam Monday. They were released without charges.

OK Thought the video said they were still being held.

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:35:36am

re: #12 Gus 802

OK Thought the video said they were still being held.

I have no sound:( no video for me.

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:36:44am

re: #13 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have no sound:( no video for me.

That can be fixed after 6 hours of troubleshooting. /

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:37:05am

I KNEW the TSA would cluck their tongues and say "LOOK! THE SYSTEM WORKS!"

I fly 4-5 times/month. And it's VERY common for me to come back from Beijing, for example, with a suitcase full of cell phones, miniature cameras, laser pointers, etc. Bundling these things together to keep track of them--though not with tape--is something I, too, have done.

I knew from the get-go that this was a false alarm.

And the US response was DISGUSTING. Even if they suspected something, why not remove the bags, and do some investigation of these people PRIVATELY!

If they were up to something, then we would have had better intelligence because we could see their itinerary, etc. And if it was a false alarm, then their dignity and privacy would be preserved.

HOW DARE our TSA say the "system works."

Stanghazi Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:37:25am

re: #9 Gus 802

Well, I guess we have to find a way to demonize these men regardless. That being by presupposing that they will sue claiming grounds of "unfair profiling." They haven't even been released from custody yet.

EXACTLY. Imagine if that was your face plastered everywhere.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:37:58am

Pajamas Media goes Truther.....
If the "corrected" story is true, wouldn’t we be having these kinds of terror alerts every day?

To believe this newer DHS version of events, then you must believe that a billion-dollar homeland security machine working in concert with the nation’s counterterrorism field agents — including the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the Federal Air Marshal Service — neglected to first determine from United Airlines that United Airlines was responsible for the key suspicious act.
You must believe that United Airlines was responsible for sending at least one of the men’s bags on a Yemen-bound flight, while sending the two Yemen-bound travelers on a totally different flight to a totally different continent that would ultimately wind up in Yemen anyway.

If this were true, wouldn’t we be having these kinds of terror alerts every day?

Who hasn’t had their luggage wind up in a different city in the past decade? Are we to believe that when the terror-threat alarm bells first rang regarding United Airlines Flight 908 sometime on Monday, DHS didn’t notify United Airlines first? If they had, surely the airline would have cleared up the old-fashioned mix-up at once.

But instead, the billion-dollar DHS machine went into overdrive, sending FBI agents into the field, delivering word to federal air marshals on the airplane via the United Airlines pilots, and insisting that the Dutch police handcuff and arrest the men.

All this without determining that United Airlines was to blame for the mix-up first?

On the eve of the tenth anniversary of 9/11, could it be that the Department of Homeland Security made its most embarrassing mistake in its history? Or was the New York Times used by DHS as a mouthpiece to silence a situation that involves something more?

United won’t talk. TSA won’t talk. DHS talks exclusively to the New York Times. Meanwhile, the Associated Press reports that the Dutch prosecutor now says that he is “99 percent certain” the two once-DHS terror suspects will likely be freed without charge. Case closed?

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:38:24am

re: #16 Stanley Sea

EXACTLY. Imagine if that was your face plastered everywhere.

Mine is only in post offices.
/

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:39:41am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Pajamas Media goes Truther...
If the "corrected" story is true, wouldn’t we be having these kinds of terror alerts every day?

Hard to believe but they're actually going to go out of their way to make something out of nothing? Not that this was nothing but they were held for what seemed to be reasonable cause and they were found to be innocent.

Varek Raith Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:40:13am

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mine is only in post offices.
/

Don't forget the bail bonds offices...
/

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:40:54am

re: #20 Varek Raith

Don't forget the bail bonds offices...
/

No. But I do have an escrow account with them.
//

Stanghazi Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:41:37am

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. But I do have an escrow account with them.
//

Dog knows you.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:42:37am

re: #19 Gus 802

Hard to believe but they're actually going to go out of their way to make something out of nothing? Not that this was nothing but they were held for what seemed to be reasonable cause and they were found to be innocent.

Konspiracy!

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:43:16am

re: #22 Stanley Sea

Dog knows you.

We often pray together.
/

_RememberTonyC Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:43:50am

re: #8 Cannadian Club Akbar

From The Weekly Standard.

The case of the flying imams who were removed in November 2006 from a USAirways flight in Minneapolis for questioning by law enforcement authorities concluded in the Minnesota federal district court before Judge Ann Montgomery. The parties arrived at a settlement of the case on October 20 in a court-supervised conference. The amounts paid by the defendants remain confidential.

thanks CCA

ShaunP Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:43:58am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Konspiracy!

They're perennially scared shit-less. To the point that everything is a "Konspiracy!" It's kind of sad, really...

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:44:06am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Konspiracy!

Seriously. And that post is basically complaining about DHS doing their job. While second guessing their actions. Talk about armchair admirals. It's as if though they'll find reason to complain regardless or even when something is a success.

darthstar Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:44:45am

Yep...that was becoming painfully apparent within the first 24 hours, and NPR was responsible enough to air that speculation. I know some people were hoping it was a dry run (adds to the "Obama can't protect us" bullshit), while others were simply hesitant to believe the best-case scenario (and, given the Fruit of the Boom dickhead and Shoeicide fuckup, one can understand why). Still, this is good news, and if someone could inform the talking heads on Fox sometime between now and Xmas that it wasn't a real threat, it would be greatly appreciated, because I'd hate for some people to be embarrassed here when they cite this as a foiled attack in comments six weeks from now.

Varek Raith Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:44:58am

re: #27 Gus 802

Seriously. And that post is basically complaining about DHS doing their job. While second guessing their actions. Talk about armchair admirals. It's as if though they'll find reason to complain regardless or even when something is a success.

Obama is prez.
Duh.

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:46:13am

And if they didn't stop them some amateur private investigator would have "noticed something" and proceeded to blog it. That would have been followed by internet conspiracy theories about a "dry run that was ignored by Obama's DHS!!11ty"

Varek Raith Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:47:19am

RE the rig explosion in the Gulf,

[Updated at 12:31 p.m.] All thirteen people aboard a production platform that exploded in the Gulf are accounted for and safely on a commercial vessel according to initial information, the U.S. Coast Guard said in a statement.
"We continue to gather information as we respond with full force, and have oil spill response assets ready for immediate deployment should we receive any reports of pollution," the statement said.

karmic_inquisitor Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:47:25am

Am I missing something? Wasn't it the Dutch who arrested and held them while the US passed them through without arresting/holding them? IIRC, the Dutch weren't happy that the Christmas bomber flew out of Schiphol. Seems they were over zealous this time.

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:47:28am

re: #29 Varek Raith

Obama is prez.
Duh.

re: #29 Varek Raith

Obama is prez.
Duh.

Yeah, I know. Let's put the bloggers at Pajamas Media in charge of DHS.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:47:39am

re: #28 darthstar

Yep...that was becoming painfully apparent within the first 24 hours, and NPR was responsible enough to air that speculation. I know some people were hoping it was a dry run (adds to the "Obama can't protect us" bullshit), while others were simply hesitant to believe the best-case scenario (and, given the Fruit of the Boom dickhead and Shoeicide fuckup, one can understand why). Still, this is good news, and if someone could inform the talking heads on Fox sometime between now and Xmas that it wasn't a real threat, it would be greatly appreciated, because I'd hate for some people to be embarrassed here when they cite this as a foiled attack in comments six weeks from now.

I was hoping, if it was a dry run, to be able to say the Obama administration is protecting us... no chance now :)

darthstar Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:48:39am

re: #7 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, The Flying Imams won. Not sure what.

Well, if it got out that our hyper-sensitive sense of paranoia could lead to people winning large financial settlements, Pa Kettle would wrap his wife in a Burqa for a short flight from Witchita to Tulsa every week and wear five pairs of underwear and three jackets himself.

Political Atheist Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:49:11am

Okay so who was expecting the really stressful phone call? As in making darn sure he had the Pepto ready when he took the call.

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:49:32am

re: #35 darthstar

Well, if it got out that our hyper-sensitive sense of paranoia could lead to people winning large financial settlements, Pa Kettle would wrap his wife in a Burqa for a short flight from Witchita to Tulsa every week and wear five pairs of underwear and three jackets himself.

Actually, the Flying Imams were acting like idiots.

darthstar Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:50:17am

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

I was hoping, if it was a dry run, to be able to say the Obama administration is protecting us... no chance now :)

Walter, sometimes I wish you were a professional tennis player, as I think it would be fun watching you play a five-set match in the finals...against yourself. The rallies would be epic.

ClaudeMonet Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:50:19am

re: #27 Gus 802

Seriously. And that post is basically complaining about DHS doing their job. While second guessing their actions. Talk about armchair admirals. It's as if though they'll find reason to complain regardless or even when something is a success.

Do your job well and with publicity--Armchair admirals will bitch.
Do your job well and without publicity--Budget is cut, can't do the job.
Do your job poorly and there is no threat--Criticism and probable budget cut.
Do your job poorly and there is a threat--People die.

I'll take them in that order. I wouldn't want to work for DHS, as just one messup equals a lot of dead people.

Gus Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:50:20am

re: #32 karmic_inquisitor

Am I missing something? Wasn't it the Dutch who arrested and held them while the US passed them through without arresting/holding them? IIRC, the Dutch weren't happy that the Christmas bomber flew out of Schiphol. Seems they were over zealous this time.

Law enforcement will seem to be over zealous from time to time. That's unavoidable. If done properly and with regard to the suspects rights it works.

3eff Jeff Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:50:39am

Man, bad week for the TSA and United Airlines, although I thought the gaffe with the Pakistani Military officers was worse.

Kind of bad form to insult folks like that on a diplomatic mission from a nuclear armed state.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

_RememberTonyC Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:50:47am

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

Okay so who was expecting the really stressful phone call? As in making darn sure he had the Pepto ready when he took the call.

for the really stressful phone calls, pepto isn't the answer. "jack" works much better.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:53:16am

re: #41 3eff Jeff

Man, bad week for the TSA and United Airlines, although I thought the gaffe with the Pakistani Military officers was worse.

Kind of bad form to insult folks like that on a diplomatic mission from a nuclear armed state.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Lucky we didn't insult the French then... oh wait, that was a Simpsons episode...

Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:54:17am

re: #38 darthstar

Walter, sometimes I wish you were a professional tennis player, as I think it would be fun watching you play a five-set match in the finals...against yourself. The rallies would be epic.

Right next to your picture on my refrigerator... :)

3eff Jeff Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:55:57am

re: #43 oaktree

Lucky we didn't insult the French then... oh wait, that was a Simpsons episode...

//

Well, that's not going to happen. French people are white.

//////////////////////////

Nervous Norvous Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:56:00am

Here we go again.

BP oil rig explodes in gulf

darthstar Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:56:17am

OT: How NOT to give an opening statement in a debate...

Youtube Video

Bubblehead II Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:57:27am

re: #46 PT Barnum

It's not a BP rig.

The Department of Homeland Security said the platform was in about 2,500 feet of water and owned by Mariner Energy of Houston.

karmic_inquisitor Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:58:00am

re: #37 Cannadian Club Akbar

Actually, the Flying Imams were acting like idiots.

Interesting to hear today Abbas talking about "incitements". We need to figure "incitement" out in this country. The nutjob who stabbed the Muslim taxi driver could claim he was "incited" by the whole ground zero "mosque" crap. I am no fan of the flying Imams but our reaction was justified at the time as responding reasonably to a sort of provocation/incitement.

It is time we figured out how to take the "incitement" stick away.

Not sure how we do it other than to allow/protect free speech, due process (as with park 51), and not allow people to rationalize violence / arrest with flimsy "incitement" claims. After all, the very people who like to scream at Islam for making claims that Prophet Cartoons provokes violence are now claiming they are being provoked by Park 51 and may have to get violent.

Sorry for the ramble - just thinking out loud.

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:58:02am

re: #48 Bubblehead II

It's not a BP rig.

The Department of Homeland Security said the platform was in about 2,500 feet of water and owned by Mariner Energy of Houston.

And not active.

Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:58:03am

I see that "captdiggs" was way out in front with the conspiracy theories about this -- and accused "Curious Lurker" of trying to "whitewash" it.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

darthstar Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:58:21am

re: #46 PT Barnum

Here we go again.

BP oil rig explodes in gulf

I heard that on NPR...sounds like a smaller rig. The good news, if you can call it that, is we now know how to cap one of these fuckers if the BOP fails on the sea floor. And if the BOP does fail on this rig, the people arguing against a moratorium are going to be in a world of hurt.

Killgore Trout Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:58:48am

re: #47 darthstar

OT: How NOT to give an opening statement in a debate...

[Video]

Ouch. That's hard to watch.

A Man for all Seasons Thu, Sep 2, 2010 9:59:13am

re: #44 Walter L. Newton

Right next to your picture on my refrigerator... :)

I'm packing stuff...And wrapped up the Meteorite you sent me.
Thanks again..It meant alot to me..Still need to call you about something for Nikki...Love your work Walter...I want to really surprise her

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:00:03am

re: #52 darthstar

See my #50.

karmic_inquisitor Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:00:35am

re: #40 Gus 802

Law enforcement will seem to be over zealous from time to time. That's unavoidable. If done properly and with regard to the suspects rights it works.

Agree. Unavoidable. Which also makes the suits unavoidable. I was falsely arrested white trying to protect my home from the Witch Creek fire. It pissed me off royally and got an apology. Would have sued if my house had burned completely.

Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:01:03am

re: #54 HoosierHoops

I'm packing stuff...And wrapped up the Meteorite you sent me.
Thanks again..It meant alot to me..Still need to call you about something for Nikki...Love your work Walter...I want to really surprise her

Thanks... I'll be here.

Stanghazi Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:02:07am

re: #56 karmic_inquisitor

Wow. (You are a neighbor)

karmic_inquisitor Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:04:54am

re: #58 Stanley Sea

Wow. (You are a neighbor)

Hey neighbor [waves].

King of the Douche, now you may bow Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:05:52am

re: #56 karmic_inquisitor

What did they try to charge you with? Possession of a water hose?

Nervous Norvous Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:08:37am

re: #46 PT Barnum

Here we go again.

BP oil rig explodes in gulf

whoops..didn't read closely enough.

karmic_inquisitor Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:10:09am

re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar

What did they try to charge you with? Possession of a water hose?

I was told that I was violating an evacuation order given during a declared emergency.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:14:15am

re: #47 darthstar

OT: How NOT to give an opening statement in a debate...

[Video]

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because -uh- some people out there in our nation don't have maps and -uh- I believe that our -uh- education like such as in -uh- South Africa and -uh- the Iraq and everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should -uh- our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. -uh- should help South Africa and should help Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children.

captdiggs Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:44:04am

re: #51 Charles

I see that "captdiggs" was way out in front with the conspiracy theories about this -- and accused "Curious Lurker" of trying to "whitewash" it.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I stand by that Charles.
None of what they did makes any sense. They were released exactly because of what I said and what many reports note; There is no law against taping cell phones to Pepto bottles, or to each other, or to batteries.
In this day and age of airport scrutiny to have two do the same thing on the same flight defies all the odds.
But, again, as reports have noted, there is no law against it.

elbruce Thu, Sep 2, 2010 10:53:38am

Muslims? Or at least Muslim-looking people? Daring to fly on our airplanes? ZOMG!!! /

How did the FAA flag these people? It's not like everybody who's flight gets bumped gets arrested. Obviously their tracking software must include some type of profiling.

simoom Thu, Sep 2, 2010 11:04:28am

re: #46 PT Barnum

Here we go again.

BP oil rig explodes in gulf

I know I probably shouldn't have looked, but for everyone's amusement, here are three of the four top rated user comments to that story:

Whiskey 2 hours ago
Now I smell a government conspiracy to make the president look good for shutting down off shore drilling..

---

Seethepositive 2 hours ago
sabotage again

---

John 1 hour ago
Hmmm. All these years of drilling in the Gulf and no explosions, then suddenly we have a president who opposes drilling there, along with a party in control of both houses who also opposes drilling, and there are all these explosions now. The explosions are used as an excuse to regulate and ban drilling! Hmmm Smells fishy

I imagine we can thank Rush, Brownie, Mark Levin, Dana Perino and all the rest who introduced the conspiracy theory angle to the Deep Water Horizon spill coverage.

Obdicut Thu, Sep 2, 2010 11:23:23am

re: #64 captdiggs

So you're just ignoring the officials saying this is a common practice?

I know it's common too. I've done it before-- to stop people stealing things, among other things. They'd have to take all the tape off to steal it.

captdiggs Thu, Sep 2, 2010 11:38:24am

re: #67 Obdicut

I see that exactly one official says it's "common".
If it's so common, then why bother these two at all?
Something rang all the bells.

And if it is "common", then that's a real problem. With all the rules on flying thee days, why allow false alarms and even more wasted time on security when they could simply have a rule that forbids the taping of electronic goods together or to anything.

In any case, even that article this thread is linked to says "questions linger".

Mark Pennington Thu, Sep 2, 2010 12:01:24pm

re: #67 Obdicut

So you're just ignoring the officials saying this is a common practice?

I know it's common too. I've done it before-- to stop people stealing things, among other things. They'd have to take all the tape off to steal it.

I do it too. You're wasting your time talking to him. If YOU can't get through to him...no one can. ;) Nothing you could say will make him not see Muslims as his enemy.

tnguitarist Thu, Sep 2, 2010 12:47:47pm

re: #64 captdiggs

I stand by that Charles.
None of what they did makes any sense. They were released exactly because of what I said and what many reports note; There is no law against taping cell phones to Pepto bottles, or to each other, or to batteries.
In this day and age of airport scrutiny to have two do the same thing on the same flight defies all the odds.
But, again, as reports have noted, there is no law against it.

You need to see my comment on that topic. Pretty sure I nailed it.

tappdancer Thu, Sep 2, 2010 1:18:34pm

Wasn't there something about them not getting on the same plane as their baggage?

eff Thu, Sep 2, 2010 4:26:38pm

One of the guys had "a cell phone taped to a Pepto-Bismol bottle, other cell phones, and watches wrapped in tape," which still sounds suspicious to me.

Anyone care to speculate why one would tape a phone to a Pepto bottle??

CuriousLurker Thu, Sep 2, 2010 6:36:25pm

*wonders if some people's idea of following the news consists only of reading the first headline they see, never actually digesting the entire story or numerous follow-up reports...*

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