Cliff May on CNN: I’m No Bigot, But the Mosque Belongs in the Basement

Immediately after complaining that he’s been unfairly demonized as a bigot, Cliff May responds to Imam Feisal Rauf’s CNN interview by saying that if he were really interested in interfaith dialog, Imam Rauf would put a Christian church on the top floor of Park51 (“after all, Christians were the ones who founded this great nation”), a Jewish temple below that, and an Islamic mosque somewhere in the basement.

Unbelievable.

Youtube Video

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588 comments

1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:16:46pm

Why just a Muslim, Jewish and Christian places of worship? Why no Zen Garden, Shinto Shrine, etc, etc.....

2 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:17:10pm

Excellent. Lets roast this hateful ass. I could not believe it when I heard it. Heh, I bet a few of us were thinking to Page this.

3 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:17:12pm

May, you douche.

4 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:17:38pm

Logic FAIL.

5 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:17:41pm

This is making me fricking sick. I can't say anything, except that this makes me livid, and I hope I never have to meet this rat of a human being. (apologies to the actual rodents.)

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:17:46pm

Swimming pool in the basement. (Gravity.)

Zen garden on top, so you can feel the wind in your hair as you contemplate the raked gravel.

7 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:19:23pm

Thomas Paine the guy who wrote the pamphlet that got many commoners on the side of the Revolution was a Christian? And Thomas Jefferson the guy who wrote the document in which we declared our independence against Britain was a Christian? I could go on and on but I'm tired of this myth that the founders were devout Christians. Yes, some were but this attempt to paint them all as Christians is false. Plus there were Jewish founders as well. I remember learning abuot one Jewish man who played a similiar role to Paul Revere in his town. I forget his name since my knowledge of the revolution isn't as strong as it should be.

8 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:19:36pm

What an absolute asshole.

9 Irenicum  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:19:40pm

What a piece of work. And by piece of work I mean piece of shit.

10 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:20:00pm

He 'really resents the demonization'...

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:20:33pm

Can I open a bar on the 13th floor?

12 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:20:34pm

By the way Jon Stewart just unloaded on Iraq tonight over their stoning women for adultery, so we might be seeing a post by Charles on that tommorow.

(Jon's thoughts? "We here in America have an reasonable way to punish with adulterers in public, it's called the Jerry Spring show."

13 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:20:43pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

Logic FAIL.

No. Juvenile 5th Grade Logic SUCCESS.

14 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:20:44pm

Maybe we can get the Westboro baptists to run the Church there for May. Would he like that too?

15 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:21:22pm

re: #9 Irenicum

What a piece of work. And by piece of work I mean piece of shit.

And by shit I mean toxic waste, because you know, shit can be useful for stuff....

16 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:21:23pm

I never heard of Cliff May. Where do these idiots come from and how do they get TV time?

17 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:21:47pm

re: #10 jaunte

Perhaps he should have thought of that before opening his ignorant mouth. There are consqueneces to saying these things.

18 Gus  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:21:55pm

Right. Let's put the Christian church on the top floor since "they're the ones that founded this nation." That way they can be on the very top of sitting on the scattered bones of the millions of American Indians that died during its conquest.

19 Batman  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:22:07pm

Why not a shrine to how awesome America is on top? Does it have to be a christian church?

20 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:22:43pm

re: #19 nonsense

Why not a shrine to how awesome America is on top? Does it have to be a christian church?

America, FUCK YEAH!

21 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:22:59pm

OK, so we're going to honor all faiths and then place some of them higher than others? Logic EPIC FAIL.

22 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:23:25pm

Why not an "All the Pork You Can Eat" restaurant on the top?
//

23 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:24:13pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

I never heard of Cliff May. Where do these idiots come from and how do they get TV time?

He used to write for National Review. And I hope they take him to the woodshed for this tin-eared line.

24 Gus  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:24:17pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

OK, so we're going to honor all faiths and then place some of them higher than others? Logic EPIC FAIL.

A religious hierarchy seems to fly in the faces of religious freedom.

25 sagehen  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:24:48pm

re: #12 jamesfirecat

By the way Jon Stewart just unloaded on Iraq tonight over their stoning women for adultery, so we might be seeing a post by Charles on that tommorow.

(Jon's thoughts? "We here in America have an reasonable way to punish with adulterers in public, it's called the Jerry Spring show."


Iran.

I know it's just one letter, they stand next to each other when the teacher lines them up by alphabetical order. But.

26 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:24:55pm

I keep thinking of the OTHER Cliff May. A great designer...
[Link: ranchostyle.com...]

27 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:25:04pm

re: #20 jamesfirecat

America, FUCK YEAH!

upding from mat stone...someone else will have to take care on the trey parker part

28 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:25:33pm

For the record, there is no mention of the word "basement" in that clip.

29 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:25:33pm

Washington Times editorial writer:

"May also contributed his name to a widely noted May 2010 Washington Times editorial that called for a “renewed adherence to the national security philosophy of President Ronald Reagan: ‘Peace Through Strength.’” Offering 10-point plan to protect America, the authors—who also included the Center for Security Policy’s Frank Gaffney and Reagan era figure Edwin Meese—argued that “freedom,” “America’s exceptional role,” and even the country’s very existence are at stake as a result of an astounding array of alleged threats facing the country. These threats included missile attacks, Shariah law, electromagnetic pulse weapons, Islamic terrorism, illegal aliens, and a weak military."
[Link: www.rightweb.irc-online.org...]

30 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:25:41pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

He used to write for National Review. And I hope they take him to the woodshed for this tin-eared line.

he'll get a pay rise and tenure.

31 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:26:06pm

re: #10 jaunte

He 'really resents the demonization'...

Riiiight.

I didn't want to watch it.
But I did.
Glad I did. But also very sad . . . I can't believe this project has become such an issue! It should not be an issue at all. Nobody outside of NYC even knew about this six months ago; and now, 70% of the country is against it? W.T.F.

32 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:26:12pm

How about an Indian Casino sports bar on the top floor?

33 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:26:13pm

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why not an "All the Pork You Can Eat" restaurant on the top?
//

That would be run by The Holy Church of Bacon, correct?

34 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:27:14pm

re: #25 sagehen

Iran.

I know it's just one letter, they stand next to each other when the teacher lines them up by alphabetical order. But.

Whoops my bad, well I'm posting with only about a half an hour to midnight, woke up at 7:15 AM and the overhead light to this room has blown a fuse so I can't see the keys that well.... IT WASN'T MY FAULT, YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME!

35 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:27:17pm

re: #28 Cato the Elder

For the record, there is no mention of the word "basement" in that clip.

Maybe he meant the mezzanine.

36 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:27:39pm

The best of the round table was Gergen. IMO

37 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:27:58pm

I've got it all figured out: Hooters!!!

38 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:13pm

re: #35 Charles

Maybe he meant the mezzanine.

Which is generally considered to be the best floor in the house.

Just sayin'.

39 Irenicum  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:21pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

It's the newest dance craze. Didn't ya hear? It's called the Frenzy. It only takes a few beats to whip the crowd into one. It's all the rage!

40 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:31pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

Nobody outside of NYC even knew about this six months ago; and now, 70% of the country is against it?

they were told often enough they were against it - because you didn't have to be a bigot to live in flyover country and have a negative opinion of Islam based on lies, rumour and funders of large news organisations - repeat ad infinitum.

Last poll had a majority in Manhatten still in favour.

41 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:39pm

re: #24 Gus 802

A religious hierarchy seems to fly in the faces of religious freedom.

It's OK to think you're religion is right and others are wrong, but the law cannot take that position. But that doesn't apply here. What does apply is that May is being very foolish and his suggestion sounds like "I'm just asking Questions" Concern Trolling.

42 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:53pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

Which is generally considered to be the best floor in the house.

Just sayin'.

Pretty sure that wasn't what he was saying.

43 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:53pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

What an absolute asshole.

You're being far too kind.

44 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:28:55pm

re: #35 Charles

Maybe he meant the mezzanine.

Oh lad de dah a mezzanine!

What do you call it?

A car hole!

45 Batman  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:29:18pm

They should scrap the project and put in a club on the first floor for the Crips and a club on the second floor for the Bloods.

46 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:29:24pm

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

The best of the round table was Gergen. IMO

that's not saying a helluva lot - agreed he is usally good, but jeebus on tonights performance - poor.

47 Gus  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:29:33pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

It's OK to think you're religion is right and others are wrong, but the law cannot take that position. But that doesn't apply here. What does apply is that May is being very foolish and his suggestion sounds like "I'm just asking Questions" Concern Trolling.

Funny you mention that because while listening to him it struck me that he sounded like a concern troll.

48 palomino  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:29:56pm

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

The best of the round table was Gergen. IMO

Except that Gergen thinks this issue should be largely determined by poll numbers that run 2-to-1 against.

I guess he's still a presidential advisor at heart.

49 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:31:17pm

g'night anyways

50 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:32:23pm

re: #48 palomino
The political instincts have really sunk in.

51 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:32:50pm

re: #44 jamesfirecat

Oh lad de dah a mezzanine!

What do you call it?

A car hole!

We don't have mezzanines here in the wilds of heathen Louisiana.
We call it "the first floor".

52 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:33:16pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

OK, so we're going to honor all faiths and then place some of them higher than others? Logic EPIC FAIL.

Bottom line, Rauf cannot do anything right in a Muslim Bigot's eye.

53 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:33:16pm

You know that a person is basing their position only on their prejudices when their words betray them and they're clueless about it.

54 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:33:26pm

Can we at least build the Westboro kooks a Church in orbit???
/

55 palomino  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:33:26pm

re: #50 Rightwingconspirator

The political instincts have really sunk in.

I guess once a consultant, always a consultant.

56 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:33:28pm

Muslims to the back of the bus please.

Is there a need for instructions on how to recognize bigotry in yourself and others? I was thinking some sort of manual, but perhaps a pop-up picture book would be better.

57 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:34:13pm

re: #55 palomino

I guess once a consultant, always a consultant.

I like to con people and I like to insult them... if you put the two of those together what do you get... think Dogbert think....

58 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:34:18pm

re: #51 reine.de.tout

We don't have mezzanines here in the wilds of heathen Louisiana.
We call it "the first floor".

Florida has one basement. Ding for the person who knows where it is.

59 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:34:38pm

re: #56 b_sharp

Oh innovation! ///

Vertical separate but equal.

He is a three dimensional bigot.

60 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:34:59pm

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

The best of the round table was Gergen. IMO

I began my Gergen like on election night. Calm, fact error free (holy hell, what is most important)

61 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:36:28pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

Oh innovation! ///

Vertical separate but equal.

He is a three dimensional bigot.

Don't you just love imaginative bigots?

Next thing you know they'll be claiming white Christian males are the true victims of bigotry.

Oh wait...

62 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:36:50pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Re-reading. Not to you D_F. !!

63 webevintage  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:36:59pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

I never heard of Cliff May. Where do these idiots come from and how do they get TV time?

Erick son of Erick called a Supreme Court Justice a goat fucker so that seems to be what it takes to be on CNN.

64 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:37:34pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

I like to con people and I like to insult them... if you put the two of those together what do you get... think Dogbert think...

Upding for the Dilbert reference.

65 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:37:42pm

re: #51 reine.de.tout

An LA quirk-Early earthquake building code (Circa WW1) was for no higher than 13 stories. Unlucky number. So we have all these old buildings with 12 floors and a mezzanine. Heh. It's an example of LA phoniness, very apropo, if you see what I mean.

66 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:37:44pm

re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar

Florida has one basement. Ding for the person who knows where it is.

No clue.
Here, of course, a basement would be called "the pond".

67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:38:44pm

re: #66 reine.de.tout

No clue.
Here, of course, a basement would be called "the pond".

Key West of all places. At the Hemingway House.

68 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:39:06pm

re: #66 reine.de.tout

No clue.
Here, of course, a basement would be called "the pond".

No you get a better price if you say indoor swimming pool.

69 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:39:19pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Bottom line, Rauf cannot do anything right in a Muslim Bigot's eye.

Which appears to be 70% of the nation ?

This is quite a test for the us, isn't it. I wonder if we'll pass.

70 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:39:36pm

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Key West of all places. At the Hemingway House.

Say hell to the six pawed cats!

71 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:39:46pm

re: #42 Charles

Pretty sure that wasn't what he was saying.

Oh, I do know that. He was ranking, and it was rank.

If it were up to me, "Ground Zero" would not be turned into another piece of high-rise real-estate trying to compete with Dubai, but a national park consecrated to religions and non-religions everywhere.

I think the Animist Pavilion would be a big draw. And part of the currently existing hole in the ground could be given over to Atheism.

I only draw the line at $cientology.

72 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:40:04pm

re: #70 jamesfirecat

Say hell to the six pawed cats!

"Hello" damn it, "HELLO!"

73 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:40:45pm

re: #70 jamesfirecat

Say hell to the six pawed cats!

They all have papers. Cool place. Saw the spot where he did his writing.

74 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:41:00pm

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Key West of all places. At the Hemingway House.

Oh, really?
And I've been there. Not a particularly attractive place, really.
But I had no clue it had a basement.
I think I was focused on the cats.

75 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:41:01pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

Which is generally considered to be the best floor in the house.

Just sayin'.

A mezzanine is an intermediate level, between two main floors.

Just sayin'.

76 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:41:41pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Oh, I do know that. He was ranking, and it was rank.

If it were up to me, "Ground Zero" would not be turned into another piece of high-rise real-estate trying to compete with Dubai, but a national park consecrated to religions and non-religions everywhere.

I think the Animist Pavilion would be a big draw. And part of the currently existing hole in the ground could be given over to Atheism.

I only draw the line at $cientology.

Dianetics burning anyone?

77 ShaunP  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:41:45pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

I never heard of Cliff May. Where do these idiots come from and how do they get TV time?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
"May served as the Director of Communications for the Republican National Committee from 1997 to 2001..."

78 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:41:58pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

No you get a better price if you say indoor swimming pool.

OOPs.
I just thought of that!
You beat me to it.

79 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:42:30pm

re: #76 marjoriemoon

Dianetics burning anyone?

My engrams are getting all crawly.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:43:21pm

re: #78 reine.de.tout

OOPs.
I just thought of that!
You beat me to it.

The Hemingway House has a salt water pool.

81 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:43:39pm

re: #69 marjoriemoon

Which appears to be 70% of the nation ?

This is quite a test for the us, isn't it. I wonder if we'll pass.

Calls for one of your cat gifs. Seriously, I is sad.

82 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:44:00pm

re: #79 jaunte

My engrams are getting all crawly.

Like cooties?

83 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:44:01pm

re: #76 marjoriemoon

Dianetics burning anyone?

No, but it has enslaved some people. And it does not have the redeeming features of Christianity. It's rotten all the way through.

84 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:44:35pm

That's a real butt hole statement. I know Cliff... I'm really going to have to ask him about this statement. I can't agree with this in any way.

85 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:44:37pm

re: #79 jaunte

My engrams are getting all crawly.

Don't all those nutties live in N. Florida? Oh wait, Phelps is in Kansas. I was gonna tell CCA to stop drinking the water up there.

86 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:44:48pm

Scientology has been running commercials here again.

87 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:45:08pm

re: #65 Rightwingconspirator

LOL!
The old May Company building on Wilshire, now part of LA County Museum of Art (LACMA) had 7 mezzanines. Some were basement levels, some above grade. One was the shoe stockroom, lined in wooden slots for shoe boxes. Elevators had the mezzanines on them "1, 1m", 2, 2m"

88 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:45:52pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

No, but it has enslaved some people. And it does not have the redeeming features of Christianity. It's rotten all the way through.

and look what it did to Chef.....those bastards!

89 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:46:46pm

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Scientology has been running commercials here again.

What in the world do those look like?

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:46:48pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Don't all those nutties live in N. Florida? Oh wait, Phelps is in Kansas. I was gonna tell CCA to stop drinking the water up there.

Central Florida!!! Ish.

91 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:46:49pm

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Scientology has been running commercials here again.

Ah, commercialism.

It's obvious they're only in it for the money. And to get a hate on for Psychology.

92 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:47:01pm

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Scientology has been running commercials here again.

You don't know the truth about psychology, I know the truth about psychology...


Good for you Mr. Cruise, something tells me you'll be needing a lot of it at some point...

93 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:47:19pm

re: #89 marjoriemoon

What in the world do those look like?

Actually, they are very well made.

94 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:00pm

re: #88 spikester

and look what it did to Chef...those bastards!

Goddamn the Secret Adventure Club and their love of molesting children all over the globe.

95 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:12pm

re: #93 Cannadian Club Akbar

Actually, they are very well made.

Tho$e $cientologi$t$ got the monie$!

96 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:27pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

That's a real butt hole statement. I know Cliff... I'm really going to have to ask him about this statement. I can't agree with this in any way.

Seriously Walter. Ask him, is he just going for face time or does he really believe what he's saying. Also, if he believes, what does he see in the future.

gah

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:32pm

re: #92 jamesfirecat

You don't know the truth about psychology, I know the truth about psychology...

Good for you Mr. Cruise, something tells me you'll be needing a lot of it at some point...

And pills. Lots and lots of pills.

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:37pm

re: #94 HappyWarrior

Goddamn the Secret Adventure Club and their love of molesting children all over the globe.

errr Super Adventure Club. Sorry.

99 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:48:54pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

Only the ones at the top of the pyramid.

100 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:50:48pm

sometimes intolerance is just intolerance.

And I'm still PISSED at the Museum of Tolerance's statement against Park 51.

101 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:51:24pm

re: #99 jaunte

And, the movie stars, and Chick Corea, IIRC...
THe ones who can attract new members, readily.

102 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:51:30pm

re: #84 Walter L. Newton

That's a real butt hole statement. I know Cliff... I'm really going to have to ask him about this statement. I can't agree with this in any way.

Can you let us know?

103 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:51:34pm

Clifford May, trying hard to make prejudice respectable:

In a new book, "The Flight of the Intellectuals," Paul Berman, ponders why so many academics and journalists refuse to grapple seriously or honestly with Islam and Islamism. He concludes that multiculturalism and moral relativism, doctrines devoutly embraced by the intellectual elite, render "everything the equal of everything else." As a consequence, some very smart people have "lost the ability to make the most elementary distinctions." Except one: They reflexively regard those from the Third World as virtuous and those from the West as steeped in blame, shame and guilt.
Intellectuals won't face Islam's sins

104 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:52:23pm

re: #96 Stanley Sea

Seriously Walter. Ask him, is he just going for face time or does he really believe what he's saying. Also, if he believes, what does he see in the future.

gah

I will have to email him. I don't have a direct contact number for him.

105 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:52:29pm

Well so long everyone I've got some sleep to catch up on!

Later lizards.

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:53:10pm

re: #101 Floral Giraffe

And, the movie stars, and Chick Corea, IIRC...
THe ones who can attract new members, readily.

They attract those who are lost. Very good marketing.

107 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:53:43pm

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

I will have to email him. I don't have a direct contact number for him.

Whatever you can do.

108 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:54:18pm

re: #106 Cannadian Club Akbar

They attract those who are lost. Very good marketing.

Shouldn't the lost try Hare Krishna?

109 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:54:38pm

Has anyone here participated in the Landmark Forums?

110 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:54:43pm

re: #102 reine.de.tout

Can you let us know?

If I get and answer to my email. He's move on to bigger and better things than when he was at the Rocky Mountain News and a local person... I don't have a phone number anymore, and I haven't emailed him in a few years. He was someone I knew through some other local reporters and media people.

If I get any reply, I'll pass on anything that's not personal.

111 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:54:49pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

A mezzanine is an intermediate level, between two main floors.

Just sayin'.

And in terms of seating, it's the best level in the house.

Unless you can afford a box.

112 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:55:16pm

re: #103 jaunte

Yeah, I saw that... and not only that, but it has become a common argument (to be charitable) among the right wing.

Namely, that multiculturalism has blinded the "liberals" to the evils of Islam, which is why the "liberals" don't accept why the "conservatives" are right about Park51 etc.

That's the approach being pushed by not just May, but VDH and a host of others.

113 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:55:22pm

re: #92 jamesfirecat

You don't know the truth about psychology, I know the truth about psychology...

Good for you Mr. Cruise, something tells me you'll be needing a lot of it at some point...

LMAO!

114 avanti  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:56:32pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Bottom line, Rauf cannot do anything right in a Muslim Bigot's eye.

He'll have a interfaith room, a memorial for 9-11, what else does he need to make them happy, a Palin University in the center ?

115 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:57:05pm

re: #108 b_sharp

Shouldn't the lost try Hare Krishna?

There is no fun in Hare Krishna.

116 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:57:13pm

re: #112 freetoken

Yeah, I saw that... and not only that, but it has become a common argument (to be charitable) among the right wing.

Namely, that multiculturalism has blinded the "liberals" to the evils of Islam, which is why the "liberals" don't accept why the "conservatives" are right about Park51 etc.

That's the approach being pushed by not just May, but VDH and a host of others.

Liberals in their ivory towers, isolated from reality and ignorant.

117 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:57:37pm

re: #61 b_sharp

Next thing you know they'll be claiming white Christian males are the true victims of bigotry.

Oh wait...

Heh. It's all class warfare, don'tcha know.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:58:01pm

re: #115 Mr Pancakes

There is no fun in Hare Krishna.

And no crying in baseball. Just sayin'.

119 Stanghazi  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:58:04pm

re: #114 avanti

He'll have a interfaith room, a memorial for 9-11, what else does he need to make them happy, a Palin University in the center ?

Not enough!!!/

120 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:58:35pm

re: #111 Cato the Elder

And in terms of seating, it's the best level in the house.

Unless you can afford a box.

Those can be superb. I had a box seat for a performance of Les Miserables at the Chicago Auditorium once and it was an excellent seat.

121 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:59:27pm

re: #117 Lidane

Heh. It's all class warfare, don'tcha know.

It's all crass warfare alrighty.

122 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:59:49pm

re: #112 freetoken

Yeah, I saw that... and not only that, but it has become a common argument (to be charitable) among the right wing.

Namely, that multiculturalism has blinded the "liberals" to the evils of Islam, which is why the "liberals" don't accept why the "conservatives" are right about Park51 etc.

That's the approach being pushed by not just May, but VDH and a host of others.

I hear ya. I guess the founding fathers were multicultural liberal treehuggers, too, then.

123 jaunte  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 8:59:54pm

re: #112 freetoken


some very smart people have "lost the ability to make the most elementary distinctions." Except one: They reflexively regard those from the Third World as virtuous and those from the West as steeped in blame, shame and guilt.


Talk about losing the ability to make elementary distinctions.

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:00:54pm

Covert Affairs is on USA right now. I love this woman.

125 avanti  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:01:29pm

re: #119 Stanley Sea

Not enough!!!/

Statue of a weeping Glenn Beck ?

126 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:01:41pm

re: #123 jaunte

It's likely that the attack on multiculturalism is the real strategic heart for the atavists, and the attack on Park51 is just a convenient vehicle for them to exploit the anger over 9/11.

127 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:02:55pm

re: #125 avanti

Statue of a weeping Glenn Beck ?

Only if it's funded by the Rockefeller Foundation. :)

128 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:03:08pm

Seriously, I wonder what would happen (speaking purely theoretically, now, Mr. Cruise), if I were to declare next March 13 to be "International L. Ron Hubbard Was A Psychopath Day" and offer to burn his stupid texts on my property.

If we can save just one Trophy Wife from the likes of Tom...

129 sagehen  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:03:10pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

Covert Affairs is on USA right now. I love this woman.

She's like the happy version of La Femme Nikita.

130 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:04:31pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

Covert Affairs is on USA right now. I love this woman.

I still haven't decided if I like that show. It's entertaining enough, but the jury is still out.

131 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:04:40pm

re: #129 sagehen

She's like the happy version of La Femme Nikita.

I ust hate when I know the next line in the script before it is said.:(

132 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:05:06pm

dateline DEC 25 2012...

the Islamic center at 51 park in lower Manhattan was hit by no less than 50 hang gliders today, all with Florida 'n' numbers. when asked if it was some sort of terrorist attack, homeland security responded that "though there does appear to be a pattern it is not so much a terrorist attack as just something stupid. really really stupid. no one was injured, well other than the "pilots "

in a related story, hells population is now at six billion and fifty

133 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:05:20pm

re: #127 Lidane

re: #125 avanti

Statue of a weeping Glenn Beck ?



Only if it's funded by the Rockefeller Foundation. :)

Commies do make the man ... dab Vicks Vaporub in his eyes.

134 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:05:38pm

re: #128 Cato the Elder

Seriously, I wonder what would happen (speaking purely theoretically, now, Mr. Cruise), if I were to declare next March 13 to be "International L. Ron Hubbard Was A Psychopath Day" and offer to burn his stupid texts on my property.

If we can save just one Trophy Wife from the likes of Tom...

Can we burn Tom and jump up and down on a couch?
/

135 avanti  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:05:39pm

re: #122 marjoriemoon

I hear ya. I guess the founding fathers were multicultural liberal treehuggers, too, then.

"In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) as well as the Christian religion."

136 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:06:17pm

re: #132 spikester

dateline DEC 25 2012...

the Islamic center at 51 park in lower Manhattan was hit by no less than 50 hang gliders today, all with Florida 'n' numbers. when asked if it was some sort of terrorist attack, homeland security responded that "though there does appear to be a pattern it is not so much a terrorist attack as just something stupid. really really stupid. no one was injured, well other than the "pilots "

in a related story, hells population is now at six billion and fifty

Standing room only.

137 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:06:54pm

re: #128 Cato the Elder

Seriously, I wonder what would happen (speaking purely theoretically, now, Mr. Cruise), if I were to declare next March 13 to be "International L. Ron Hubbard Was A Psychopath Day" and offer to burn his stupid texts on my property.

If we can save just one Trophy Wife from the likes of Tom...

The Scientologists would plan a protest, then call it off when they realized they be in a somewhat rough Baltimore neighborhood. They're pussies.

138 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:06:58pm

re: #132 spikester

Why do you hate Florida?
/

139 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:08:06pm

re: #119 Stanley Sea

That's all you got?

Dance

I like your style

140 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:09:10pm

re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar

i lub FL

141 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:09:45pm
... put a Christian church on the top floor of Park51 (“after all, Christians were the ones who founded this great nation”), a Jewish temple below that, and an Islamic mosque somewhere in the basement.

What an insensitive prick. Everyone knows that the sub-levels are to be reserved for my people.

142 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:10:57pm

re: #135 avanti

"In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) as well as the Christian religion."

Oh don't confuse them with facts!

We'll take the Mahamdans and the Jews, but we don't want the Irish!

143 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:12:12pm

re: #142 marjoriemoon

Oh don't confuse them with facts!

We'll take the Mahamdans and the Jews, but we don't want the Irish!

Why does that make me want to post a clip from Blazing Saddles?

144 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:12:32pm

re: #142 marjoriemoon

Oh don't confuse them with facts!

We'll take the Mahamdans and the Jews, but we don't want the Irish!

Or the Polish!!

145 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:12:55pm

re: #143 b_sharp

Why does that make me want to post a clip from Blazing Saddles?

kiss kiss hug hug!

146 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:13:22pm

re: #32 BigPapa

How about an Indian Casino sports bar on the top floor?

You're hired.

147 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:14:00pm

re: #145 marjoriemoon

kiss kiss hug hug!

Thankyou, I needed that.

148 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:14:22pm

re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar

Or the Polish!!

Or the Troofers!

One of the best moves Dubya ever made was to let Cindy bake her brains for weeks in the hot Crawford sun.

149 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:16:15pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

Or the Troofers!

One of the best moves Dubya ever made was to let Cindy bake her brains for weeks in the hot Crawford sun.

that's what that smell was!

150 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:16:23pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

Or the Troofers!

One of the best moves Dubya ever made was to let Cindy bake her brains for weeks in the hot Crawford sun.

It was good, that's a fact. She came off looking like a creepy stalker and she didn't do him any harm at all.

151 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:17:43pm

Dammit.
Why does Google do this kind of shit?!
Sigh.

152 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:18:12pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Dammit.
Why does Google do this kind of shit?!
Sigh.

???

153 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:18:37pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Dammit.
Why does Google do this kind of shit?!
Sigh.

Ay least you're not vague.

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:19:13pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Dammit.
Why does Google do this kind of shit?!
Sigh.

You spell it P O R N!!!
//

155 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:19:27pm

Gaza mortar narrowly misses Israel kindergarten: army

Palestinian militants fired a mortar round from the Gaza Strip on Wednesday narrowly missing a kindergarten in a kibbutz in southern Israel, the military said, as Jews prepared to mark their New Year.

I can picture the candy being passed out in Gaza if they succeeded in hitting the school.

156 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:19:35pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Dammit.
Why does Google do this kind of shit?!
Sigh.

Relax. Crew serviced weapons on vampire pr0n has yet to be invented.

157 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:19:57pm

This.
[Link: www.google.com...]

158 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:20:30pm

re: #155 NJDhockeyfan

Gaza mortar narrowly misses Israel kindergarten: army

I can picture the candy being passed out in Gaza if they succeeded in hitting the school.

Technology from Gaza™!

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:21:06pm

I feel the need to Google Google.

160 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:21:08pm

The Imam's interview was terrific btw. I was watching it on CNN. Was it posted here? Anyway, he made wonderful points, spoke eloquently and I hope he's recognized for it.

161 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:22:13pm

re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar

I feel the need to Google Google.

"About 1,380,000,000 results (0.10 seconds)."

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:22:49pm

re: #148 Cato the Elder

One of the best moves Dubya ever made was to let Cindy bake her brains for weeks in the hot Crawford sun.

If brains were grains, she couldn't bake a single cheerio.

I feel bad that she lost her son. I am utterly disgusted with the way she exploited that.

163 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:23:17pm

re: #155 NJDhockeyfan

Gaza mortar narrowly misses Israel kindergarten: army

I can picture the candy being passed out in Gaza if they succeeded in hitting the school.

Indeed. Hamas is a bunch of sick fucks. They're lucky it missed. If an Israeli child had died, they'd catch a beatdown.

164 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:23:27pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

"About 1,380,000,000 results (0.10 seconds)."

Well, I don't have time for that.
/

165 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:24:13pm

re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar

I feel the need to Google Google.

58 unique top-ten pages selected from at least 5,369,999,301 matching results
(startpage)

166 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:24:53pm

In his latest column, Paleo Pat takes a swipe at McCain while writing fondly of J.D. Hayworth ("an authentic conservative"), and how essentially McCain had to move his agenda towards Hayworth's views in order to get re-elected.

Anyway, Pat throws this in:

But if the GOP takes the advice of its establishment, and the neocons who seek power to start another war, and walks away from cultural, social and moral issues, which are far more popular than the party itself, folks who care about the character of the country and national identity should walk away from that party, and find outliers who will pick up the banner and carry it forward.

Oh yes, that precious "national identity". Tell us Pat, what would that "identity" be?

I noticed that all the comments so far at Buchanan's website on this article are about ... well, let me quote part of one of them:

PJB………..First, let me get it out of the way, that Sara Palin is nothing more than a “Call Girl” for the Zionist owned GOP!

Gee, I wonder who will be left out of that precious "national identity"?

167 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:26:44pm

re: #166 freetoken

In his latest column, Paleo Pat takes a swipe at McCain while writing fondly of J.D. Hayworth ("an authentic conservative"), and how essentially McCain had to move his agenda towards Hayworth's views in order to get re-elected.

Anyway, Pat throws this in:

Oh yes, that precious "national identity". Tell us Pat, what would that "identity" be?

I noticed that all the comments so far at Buchanan's website on this article are about ... well, let me quote part of one of them:

Gee, I wonder who will be left out of that precious "national identity"?

Everyone not wearing a swastika.

If someone is going on about 'national identity' like Pukecannon is there, its not a Godwin to call him out on it.

168 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:26:54pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Hamas is a bunch of sick fucks. They're lucky it missed. If an Israeli child had died, they'd catch a beatdown.

Why wait till they hit a school? This attempted murder of children deserves an abundant ass kicking.

169 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:28:05pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

This.
[Link: www.google.com...]

I love it... just saw it this evening.. now, all they have to do is be able to predict which of the 1,380,000,000 results I want to look at and display it before I even select it.

170 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:29:47pm

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

I love it... just saw it this evening.. now, all they have to do is be able to predict which of the 1,380,000,000 results I want to look at and display it before I even select it.

if you use google long enough...they will be able to

171 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:30:21pm

re: #166 freetoken

So who is the GOP's "establishment"? I thought they were pretty much The Establishment.

172 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:30:37pm

re: #166 freetoken

In his latest column, Paleo Pat takes a swipe at McCain while writing fondly of J.D. Hayworth ("an authentic conservative"), and how essentially McCain had to move his agenda towards Hayworth's views in order to get re-elected.

Anyway, Pat throws this in:

Oh yes, that precious "national identity". Tell us Pat, what would that "identity" be?

I noticed that all the comments so far at Buchanan's website on this article are about ... well, let me quote part of one of them:

Gee, I wonder who will be left out of that precious "national identity"?

McCain got elected?

So why is everyone so pissed at Obama?

173 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:32:24pm

re: #172 Cato the Elder

For the run for the Senate seat.

174 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:32:47pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Hamas is a bunch of sick fucks. They're lucky it missed. If an Israeli child had died, they'd catch a beatdown.

And most deservedly so. What kind of fuct up world do we live in, where a group of genocidal terrorists launch rockets into civilian populations, on a basis so regular you could set your watch by it, and the gov't that responds in order to protect it's civilians is demonized when it does so?

What a fucking nightmare.

175 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:33:01pm

re: #172 Cato the Elder

McCain got elected?

So why is everyone so pissed at Obama?

He won the primary. I think that's a good thing in this case. Nutty v. Nuttier.

176 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:33:20pm

re: #171 marjoriemoon

So who is the GOP's "establishment"? I thought they were pretty much The Establishment.

Shhhhh.... you know... the...
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JOOOOOOSSSSS....

177 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:33:30pm

re: #173 freetoken

For the run for the Senate seat.

McCain is a senator?

I thought he was just a pissed-off old dude with a beer-fed trophy wife.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:33:50pm

Mural Of Kings' Omri Casspi Defaced With Swastika


Sacramento police are investigating the vandalism to a mural of Sacramento Kings' player Omri Casspi as a hate crime, and the mural's artist says it has been vandalized before.

Passersby said they were caught off guard when they noticed a swastika had been scratched between the Jewish athlete's eyes on the mural on 16th Street and R Street. It also appeared as though someone had tried to scratch the symbol away.

"It's weird to think there are people like that still out there," said Ravina Bhan.

With no surveillance cameras aimed at the mural, police don't know when the vandalism took place. The incident is being investigated as a hate crime, even though the swastika was drawn incorrectly.

"It's backwards, so he's a particularly dumb Nazi sympathizer," said Jewish Community Relations Council member Barry Broad.

179 spikester  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:34:12pm

re: #172 Cato the Elder

McCain got elected?

So why is everyone so pissed at Obama?

who's pissed at Omaha?
oh, sorry, dyslexia's a bitch

later lizards

180 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:36:36pm

I mentioned this earlier... but I've fallen in love with Steve Jobs... I made a few extra dollars this week with some programming for Kaiser, so I decided to treat myself and purchased a brand new Ipod Touch *gig 2nd generation which was on sale at Staples for 168.00... which I thought was a good deal... well... I'm absolutely geek-freaked over this little toy... now I know why people hold on to their Iphones like they need to be pried from their hands... I can't put this down... the user interface is one of the smartest pieces of software I've seen... I've never owned any of the Apple Touch, Pad or Phone products... I once had a little video Nona... but this is just to clever... Steve Jobs is a god.

181 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:36:55pm

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

"It's backwards, so he's a particularly dumb Nazi sympathizer," said Jewish Community Relations Council member Barry Broad.

Redundant statement is redundant.

182 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:37:23pm

re: #176 freetoken

Almost right.

Joss Whedon.

183 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:38:36pm

re: #176 freetoken

Ahh yes. I forgot how all-powerful we are. And able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. I bet they didn't know THAT!

184 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:40:11pm

My eyes are twirling around. Must be time for bed. Later...

185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:40:19pm

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

For the desktop, I am a PC man that will likely never convert. But I have been very impressed with some of the horizontal product lines that Apple has come out with ten or so years.

Impressed, but too broke to buy.

186 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:41:19pm

As expected, when posted at Townhall Buchanan's column brought out the natives. Lots and lots and lots of McCain haters there.

187 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:43:41pm

re: #186 freetoken

As expected, when posted at Townhall Buchanan's column brought out the natives. Lots and lots and lots of McCain haters there.

Another Tea Party favorite bites the dust. Works for me.

188 cliffster  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:45:49pm

Wash your hair with placenta..

Image: 6188.jpg

189 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:46:22pm

re: #186 freetoken

As expected, when posted at Townhall Buchanan's column brought out the natives. Lots and lots and lots of McCain haters there.

Well, I hate McCain because thanks to him I'm going to be forced to listen to Sawah Pawin's squeaky-voiced schizo word-salad for the rest of my life.

190 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:47:28pm

Again, the question must be asked: are there any adults left in the GOP?

191 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:48:47pm

re: #112 freetoken

Yeah, I saw that... and not only that, but it has become a common argument (to be charitable) among the right wing.

Namely, that multiculturalism has blinded the "liberals" to the evils of Islam, which is why the "liberals" don't accept why the "conservatives" are right about Park51 etc.

That's the approach being pushed by not just May, but VDH and a host of others.

Fuck them, straight from this "conservative" (that could be considered a "classical liberal")....

192 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:49:00pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Yeah, but you only "hate" McCain. The Natives really HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE McCain.

Lots of capital letters over there.

193 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:49:04pm

re: #186 freetoken

As expected, when posted at Townhall Buchanan's column brought out the natives. Lots and lots and lots of McCain haters there.

The Freaks Come Out At Night:

194 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:49:12pm

re: #188 cliffster

I do believe I shall stick to Dr. Bronner's Peppermint soap. But thanks.

195 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:51:19pm

re: #188 cliffster

Wash your hair with placenta..

Image: 6188.jpg

Why not just eat it?

196 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:51:23pm

re: #190 eclectic infidel

Again, the question must be asked: are there any adults left in the GOP?

Well, John McCain and her daughter are adults, and so am I. There's also Mitt Romney...

197 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:52:08pm

I haven't read Townhall in a while... so strolling through some comments on a few articles is showing me that the crowd over there is growing even more restless than I remember them to be a few months ago.

What will the Natives do when, come November, we still have the same government we have now?

198 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:52:58pm

re: #194 Cato the Elder

I do believe I shall stick to Dr. Bronner's Peppermint soap. But thanks.

I grew up In Escondido Ca where he made that soap...... the label read like a bulletin board with his weird beliefs.

199 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:53:20pm

re: #166 freetoken

In his latest column, Paleo Pat takes a swipe at McCain while writing fondly of J.D. Hayworth ("an authentic conservative"), and how essentially McCain had to move his agenda towards Hayworth's views in order to get re-elected.

Anyway, Pat throws this in:

Oh yes, that precious "national identity". Tell us Pat, what would that "identity" be?

I noticed that all the comments so far at Buchanan's website on this article are about ... well, let me quote part of one of them:

Gee, I wonder who will be left out of that precious "national identity"?

Hrmmm, I'll take "male, white, and "Christian"", Alex...

200 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:53:29pm

re: #197 freetoken

I haven't read Townhall in a while... so strolling through some comments on a few articles is showing me that the crowd over there is growing even more restless than I remember them to be a few months ago.

What will the Natives do when, come November, we still have the same government we have now?

They're heads'll explode.

/I hope.

201 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:53:35pm

re: #197 freetoken

The Great Apoplexalypses.

202 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:54:21pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

Do people who write comments like those over there even realize how idiotic they appear?

Ohh... why do I ask such easy questions?

203 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:54:48pm

re: #198 Mr Pancakes

I grew up In Escondido Ca where he made that soap... the label read like a bulletin board with his weird beliefs.

The Dr. Bronner's label is a hoot, but it's damn good backpacking soap...

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:54:51pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Well, I hate McCain because thanks to him I'm going to be forced to listen to Sawah Pawin's squeaky-voiced schizo word-salad for the rest of my life.

You don't plan on living much longer, do you? Because I am pretty sure after the "Great Fail of 2012" Palin will be as popular as a heat rash.

Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but a despondent republican can dream, can't he?

205 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:55:21pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Well, I hate McCain because thanks to him I'm going to be forced to listen to Sawah Pawin's squeaky-voiced schizo word-salad for the rest of my life.

How about a compromise: He sends you a video of his sons throwing Sarah Palin under the Straight Talk Express, and you agree to forgive him. The only loser would be the Twit.

206 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:55:30pm

re: #203 talon_262

The Dr. Bronner's label is a hoot, but it's damn good backpacking soap...

It's great soap...... didn't even know they still made it.

207 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:56:38pm

re: #191 talon_262

High five!

208 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:57:17pm

re: #199 talon_262

Hrmmm, I'll take "male, white, straight, and "Christian"", Alex...

FTFY

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:57:33pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Massive upding for the old school link.

210 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:58:21pm

re: #202 freetoken

Do people who write comments like those over there even realize how idiotic they appear?

Ohh... why do I ask such easy questions?

I don't think they care. They get to be both public and anonymous at the same time, so they let their freak flag fly. It's a sadly common internet phenomenon.

211 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:58:36pm

re: #189 Cato the Elder

Well, I hate McCain because thanks to him I'm going to be forced to listen to Sawah Pawin's squeaky-voiced schizo word-salad for the rest of my life.

I don't hate McCain, but I will never, ever forgive him or anyone else involved in his campaign for forcing Caribou Barbie on the rest of us.

212 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:59:40pm

re: #211 Lidane

I blame Dobson and his influence.

213 freetoken  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:02:23pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

I know it is common, which is why I find it so discouraging. I've been commenting on the internet since commenting on the internet began (with the early Newsgroups.) USENET was often a melange of idiocy, arrogance, and male posturing. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

214 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:02:25pm

re: #211 Lidane

I don't hate McCain, but I will never, ever forgive him or anyone else involved in his campaign for forcing Caribou Barbie on the rest of us.

If you're a Democrat, there's never been any McCain love, pre or post Barbie. But Hayworth was among the super scary. Actually boosts my faith in Arizona Republicans a notch. Now to get rid of that wacky Governor.

215 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:06:03pm

re: #214 marjoriemoon

If you're a Democrat, there's never been any McCain love, pre or post Barbie. But Hayworth was among the super scary. Actually boosts my faith in Arizona Republicans a notch. Now to get rid of that wacky Governor.

I vote Democratic, so it's not like I ever had any intention of voting for McCain anyway, but I've never been so thoroughly disappointed in someone as I was when he put Palin on his ticket. It was such a blatantly cynical move, pandering to the PUMA idiots and treating all women like we're some weird hive vagina that I couldn't help but be offended. Once Caribou Barbie started talking, that feeling only got worse.

I don't know shit about Arizona politics, but seeing Hayworth lose was nice. Seeing Brewer lose would be that much better, especially after all her immigration idiocy.

216 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:06:52pm

re: #206 Mr Pancakes

It's great soap... didn't even know they still made it.

Get mine at Campmor...

217 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:10:44pm

re: #213 freetoken

I know it is common, which is why I find it so discouraging. I've been commenting on the internet since commenting on the internet began (with the early Newsgroups.) USENET was often a melange of idiocy, arrogance, and male posturing. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

Me neither. It's like a bar at a vacation destination. Everyone wants to blow off steam and thinks they won't be recognized. So they feel free to be an ass in public.

218 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:10:53pm

re: #215 Lidane

weird hive vagina

I'm tempted to recommend this for a rotating title, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

219 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:11:43pm

re: #215 Lidane

Hive vagina? ROFL!

It didn't really surprise me, but I do follow Arizona politics, only because I have family there.

I don't think taking Janet Napolitano out of Arizona was the best move. I mean out of all the people Obama could have chosen as the Sec of HS.

220 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:11:56pm

re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm tempted to recommend this for a rotating title, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

Yeah, I don't think it would work too well. Heh.

221 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:12:06pm

Just spent 45 minutes on the phone with a friend who lives 3 blocks from where I am. Now I'm tired. And have a double cheeseburger to kill. Nighty ya'll.

222 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:12:13pm

re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm tempted to recommend this for a rotating title, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

Alright, who the hell are you and what did you do with SB?!?!

223 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:12:55pm

re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm tempted to recommend this for a rotating title, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

I'm still laughing.

224 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:13:31pm

re: #220 Lidane

Yeah, I don't think it would work too well. Heh.

Me neither. Rotating titles should be kept PG-13.

225 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:14:08pm

re: #219 marjoriemoon

Hive vagina? ROFL!

I don't remember where I saw that, but it made me laugh. I'm just weird that way. XD

I don't think taking Janet Napolitano out of Arizona was the best move. I mean out of all the people Obama could have chosen as the Sec of HS.

True. Not his best idea. I still maintain that taking Huntsman out of Utah was genius, and win-win for both men, though.

226 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:14:24pm

re: #220 Lidane

Yeah, I don't think it would work too well. Heh.

Sure would be a sight to see though, wouldn't it.

/No! No Japan. This is not an open invitation for your comic book artists to illustrate a rendition of such.

227 cliffster  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:14:30pm

re: #195 Mr Pancakes

Why not just eat it?

ew

228 sagehen  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:14:37pm

re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm tempted to recommend this for a rotating title, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

But it's be a great name for a band.

229 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:15:57pm

re: #222 Varek Raith

Alright, who the hell are you and what did you do with SB?!?!

Hey now. I was thinking in terms of what might be appropriate for LGF, not what might be appropriate for me.

230 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:16:23pm

re: #214 marjoriemoon

If you're a Democrat, there's never been any McCain love,

I love Meghan McCain.

231 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:16:37pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure would be a sight to see though, wouldn't it.

/No! No Japan. This is not an open invitation for your comic book artists to illustrate a rendition of such.

I'd bet the farm it's already been done.

232 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:16:51pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure would be a sight to see though, wouldn't it.

/No! No Japan. This is not an open invitation for your comic book artists to illustrate a rendition of such.

Please don't even put that image into my head! I feel like I need Brain Bleech....

233 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:17:04pm

re: #225 Lidane

I don't remember where I saw that, but it made me laugh. I'm just weird that way. XD

True. Not his best idea. I still maintain that taking Huntsman out of Utah was genius, and win-win for both men, though.

I must admit. I know nothing of Utah politics! lol

No, W.H.V. is very, very funny indeed.

234 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:18:39pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

Must. Not. Google.

235 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:19:54pm

re: #233 marjoriemoon

I must admit. I know nothing of Utah politics! lol

I don't know anything about Utah politics either. I just know that Huntsman is a smart, charismatic guy who doesn't come across like a wingnut, and who could, in theory, run for higher office at some point. Thing is, getting him out of Utah not only gave Obama an ambassador to China that's fluent in Mandarin, but it gets Huntsman the hell away from all the Bad Crazy that's going on in the GOP these days. Plus, it burnishes his resume for later.

No, W.H.V. is very, very funny indeed.

Hehe.

236 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:20:00pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

I'd bet the farm it's already been done.

Yeah, its been done...

WAIT!!!

237 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:22:19pm

Gotta go to bed. Sleep well, all.

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:22:34pm

re: #235 Lidane

I am already picturing a greasy spoon diner, a cheap and easy spot for those looking to eat out, called "Lidane's Weird Hive Vagina".

239 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:23:21pm

So last month, I had ordered some stuff from Gamesworkshop, but it never showed up, so I called about tracking and they said they were going to resend my order express, and not to worry if they other order showed up. I got the reship the next day and today, the original order showed, so ended up with about $100 worth of stuff free.

240 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:23:23pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

I am already picturing a greasy spoon diner, a cheap and easy spot for those looking to eat out, called "Lidane's Weird Hive Vagina".

SMACK!

241 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:24:13pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

What? I'd eat there.

242 Lidane  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:24:15pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

Must. Not. Google.

*ahem*

[Link: wiki.feministsf.net...]

243 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:25:10pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So last month, I had ordered some stuff from Gamesworkshop, but it never showed up, so I called about tracking and they said they were going to resend my order express, and not to worry if they other order showed up. I got the reship the next day and today, the original order showed, so ended up with about $100 worth of stuff free.

Free stuff is good.
What kind of free stuff?

244 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:27:54pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

Free stuff is good.
What kind of free stuff?

I had ordered 2 Squads of Imperial Guard Stormtroopers, 20 men total, but now have 4 squads, 40 men. Enough 2 fill out an Inquistor Force or an IG storm trooper brigade.

245 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:32:22pm

re: #242 Lidane

Hmm... I did find a photo of a woman with two vaginas, but I won't link it. It's quite clinical and boring.

246 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:33:06pm

re: #245 Slumbering Behemoth

Hmm... I did find a photo of a woman with two vaginas, but I won't link it. It's quite clinical and boring.

Figures you went looking!
:P

247 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:34:55pm

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I had ordered 2 Squads of Imperial Guard Stormtroopers, 20 men total, but now have 4 squads, 40 men. Enough 2 fill out an Inquistor Force or an IG storm trooper brigade.

How powerful are the extra troopers?
Or are they just more cannon fodder?

248 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:38:48pm

re: #247 Varek Raith

How powerful are the extra troopers?
Or are they just more cannon fodder?

Well combined with what I already have, it leads me field 4 full squads of mechanized infantry, 2 squads of airborne stormtroopers, plus have extra left over to fill out and armored command squad. Depending on the rules I use, I can either use them for IG or as an Inquisition assault team.

Plus, since these are 40k stormtroopers, they can hit the broadside of a barn.

249 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 10:47:00pm

re: #246 Varek Raith

I knew a gal like that once. Two V's, two uteruses, but only one F. tube each. And it ain't like she had extra storage space in her abdomen. There is no way she could ever carry to term without endangering her life.

250 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:00:27pm

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

STOMP THEM.
IF you can.
Good night, all.

251 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:09:39pm

Hey! Netflix has Buckaroo Banzai on Instant Queue!!!

252 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:12:24pm

re: #251 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey! Netflix has Buckaroo Banzai on Instant Queue!!!

Fuck yeah....I'm all over that, right now!

/I wanna be one of the Hong Kong Cavaliers...

253 Kragar  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:14:27pm

re: #252 talon_262

Fuck yeah...I'm all over that, right now!

/I wanna be one of the Hong Kong Cavaliers...

ITS BIGBOOTAY!

254 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:17:37pm

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ITS BIGBOOTAY!

Peter Weller will always be known to me as Robocop and Buckaroo Banzai...John Lithgow was hilarious in it as well.

255 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:22:07pm

re: #254 talon_262

Peter Weller will always be known to me as Robocop and Buckaroo Banzai...John Lithgow was hilarious in it as well.

BUCKAROO BANZAI!

One of my favorite films ever :D

"John Bigboote, you are-a- the weakest individual I-a ever know."

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 8, 2010 11:22:17pm

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ITS BIGBOOTAY!

You're a good person :D

257 boredtechindenver  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:09:44am

Geez, WUB, you killed the internets.

Speaking of killing the internets, I replaced an old 2004/5 linksys WR54G router with a new linksys, and it was great. Until i rebooted my lapdog and the wireless showed that it was going flakey. I had to get a new Wireless USB adapter, and now, all is good.

258 boredtechindenver  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:11:20am

Watching Terriers (late night feed) and it looks interesting. Good late night TV.

259 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:34:11am

So this personality test I took is so accurate that it's frightening: [Link: typelogic.com...]

260 Winny Spencer  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:50:19am

re: #259 WindUpBird

I once did a scientology personality test. It showed that I have plenty of unrealised potential.

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:59:07am

re: #260 Winny Spencer

I once did a scientology personality test. It showed that I have plenty of unrealised potential.

ahahaha that or your bank account does :D

But yeah, this test is a standard jungian psych test, it's good stuff

262 freetoken  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 1:02:35am
263 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 1:18:06am

re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why do you hate Florida?
/

Because he hates having to eat dinner at 4:00!

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

If brains were grains, she couldn't bake a single cheerio.

I'm going to remember and use that one.

264 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 1:23:16am

re: #183 marjoriemoon

Ahh yes. I forgot how all-powerful we are. And able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. I bet they didn't know THAT!

If we own the GOP, why do we usually vote about 80-90% Democratic?

If we're so all-powerful, why do I need a car?

If I can leap tall buildings in a single bound, why do I take the elevator two floors up to my office?

These and many other questions will not be answered on the next episode of...

265 boxhead  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 1:28:06am

re: #251 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hey! Netflix has Buckaroo Banzai on Instant Queue!!!

We need a Netflix instant download recommendations list. They have lots of movies, but it is like shopping at Ross, to find the good ones requires browsing through the junk.

I watched Fast Times at Ridgemont High yesterday!

266 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 1:42:21am

re: #259 WindUpBird

So this personality test I took is so accurate that it's frightening: [Link: typelogic.com...]

As usual, there was a lot with which I agreed and a lot of hooey. The test I took said I'm an ISTP. Me, a good mechanic? I wish that were true. I'm good at seeing a problem, but not diagnosis or solution.

OTOH, when in charge, I am the guy who says "F*** the rules. Let's get this done, fixed, NOW."

267 freetoken  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 2:13:02am
268 freetoken  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 2:28:02am

Here's Greg Anderson again, in a duet with his partner Elizabeth Roe (sigh....):

269 tnguitarist  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 2:37:47am

Nigerian advance-fee scammer gets 12 years

Okpako Mike Diamreyan, 31, has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for sending out fraudulent e-mails offering victims big bucks in exchange for moving cash to the United States.


We never think past the jokes to the people behind these scams. It's good to see them get caught and prosecuted.

Next up: getting the death penalty for virus programmers.

270 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 2:58:45am

This is a re-post of my comments on researchok's now-buried page from yesterday, The Sexually Abused Dancing Boys of Afghanistan. I urge anyone who hasn't seen this story to go back and read it. It is disturbing to say the least but it gives some idea of what we are up against in that part of the world.

..................

James A. Michener's classic novel Caravans, set in Afghanistan in 1946, has an extensive description of this depraved dancing boy tradition.

*Spoilers*

The hero, a young American diplomat named Mark Miller, and his Afghan traveling companions watch a troup of these dancing boys in Kandahar. Miller's group is joined by a German doctor who carries on a desultory practice in the town and who serves as interpreter and guide for the few westerners who happen to travel there. After the show, a tribesman from the hills and a local policeman both try to buy the prize dancer for the night. Miller and his friends recognize the tribesman. They had given him a lift into town earlier in the day. They had taken special notice of his unusual apparel, a European style woman's coat that is apparently the man's prize possession. A fight breaks out over the dancing boy, the policeman is killed and the tribesman arrested.

The next day, Miller, his westernized Afghan companions, and the German doctor witness the aftermath as the dead policeman's father takes his lawful revenge under the supervision of local mullahs.
Miller is horrified when he learns what is to happen: A ritual beheading by the father himself in the town square. Before the actual cutting can begin, the doctor rushes into the street and remonstrates with the father and the judges. Miller is relieved until he learns that the doctor only wants the father to work from the other side of the terrified and bound tribesman's body so the light will be better for the photographs the doctor intends to take.
The father obligingly changes sides and goes to work with a rusty bayonet. He finishes and triumphantly waves the head to the cheering crowd.

The scene ends with the dancing boy and the avenged father walking away arm-in-arm. The father is wearing the now very dead tribesman's prize possession, the fancy coat. Miller is overwhelmed with the bizarre hellish insanity of the scene and goes into uncontrollable fits of laughter, while his Afghan friends are utterly disgusted and humiliated. One of them sits in their Jeep and sobs quietly, muttering "my poor country....my poor country."

The whole thing is described in exacting, even mesmerizing, detail, including the homo-erotic dance and, later, the gruesome beheading. The latter would be all too familiar today but was deeply shocking to western audiences when the book was published in 1962. Michener, who went to Afghanistan to research the book, says in his notes that he did not actually witness such an event but arrived in a small town just days after one. A European visitor had in fact intervened to improve the lighting for his photos and had helpfully supplied Michener with copies.

271 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 3:12:24am

And on that uplifting note:

272 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:22:25am

*scratches self*

Mornin'.

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:29:15am

Hello. I'm CCA and I'm a bigot. (that means I only drink one kind of booze)
/

274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:32:07am

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hello, CCA.

275 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:33:14am

Enjoy a little happy music to start your day.

276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:33:38am

Who is that old guy staring back at me in the mirror? He looks like shit.

277 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:34:13am

re: #276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who is that old guy staring back at me in the mirror? He looks like shit.

PUNCH HIM!!!
//

278 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:34:14am

Good Morning Folks,

Should be another green day on Wall Street today. Jobless claims are forecast to drop by roughly 2000. The DOW has been oscillating recently but seems to be holding the 10K line pretty well. QLD and QID have been great trading vehicles during this time.

Off to work. Have a great day.

JP

279 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:37:09am

I'll wake your asses up!!!

280 Winny Spencer  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:44:18am

I'm the James Jay Lee of alcohol.

Teetotal.

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:44:28am

I walked a couple miles this week. Now I am kinda limping around. I think I'll get me a motorized wheelchair. It's a win win.
/

282 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:45:05am

Watching this video makes JasonA angry.

283 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:46:25am

re: #282 JasonA

Watching this video makes JasonA angry.

People who talk in the first person makes CCA angry.
/

284 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:48:12am

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

People who talk in the first person makes CCA angry.
/

JasonA must speak in third person before 8AM. New rule.

285 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:48:48am

I may not be ready for this brave new world of the 21st century, even though we are a decade into it now.
This creeps me out:
Google Street image of my friggin' house. Fortunately this is more obscure than most of the images, but still.....

286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:50:12am

re: #285 Shiplord Kirel

Looks to me like a google image of your trees.

287 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:51:04am

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks to me like a google image of your trees.

Thank goodness. I need to pee.

288 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:51:39am

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks to me like a google image of your trees.

I always have liked those trees. The house is back there somewhere.

289 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:53:19am

re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thanks, now I need to pee. Let's go mark Kirel's house, now that we know what it looks like...

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:55:02am

re: #289 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks, now I need to pee. Let's go mark Kirel's house, now that we know what it looks like...

I still wanna poop in my friend's cat's litter box just to see my friend's reaction.
/I have a sickness.

291 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:55:55am

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

I still wanna poop in my friend's cat's litter box just to see my friend's reaction.
/I have a sickness.

It's called toxoplasmosis...

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:56:50am

re: #291 JasonA

It's called toxoplasmosis...

Dude, you're harshing my buzz.

293 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:57:29am

As a scientist, I have seen fit to equip my trees with chemically activated booby traps keyed to the specific urinary profile of middle-aged drunkards. Technical details will not be revealed but the devices incorporate truck springs, pruning shears, and a rusty bear trap I got at a flea market in Amarillo.

294 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:57:39am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude, you're harshing my buzz.

I know.

295 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:58:39am

Construction Complete On 9/11 Truther Memorial

UNDISCLOSED—On a remote patch of Kansas prairie believed to fall outside the range of U.N. spy satellites, construction is finally complete on the long- awaited 9/11 Truther Memorial, sources confirmed Wednesday.
296 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:58:46am

re: #285 Shiplord Kirel

These are my favorite street view pics:

What kind of gun is that, anyway?

Image: googlegun.jpg

Creepy:

Image: horseboy.jpg

Party on!

Image: waynes-world-google-street-view-edition-7145-1278429786-6.jpg

297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:59:23am

re: #293 Shiplord Kirel

heh... there was a joke once about a guy getting his nuts caught in a bear trap. He said he only thought it hurt at first. But the real pain started when he ran out of chain!

298 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:59:34am

re: #293 Shiplord Kirel

As a scientist, I have seen fit to equip my trees with chemically activated booby traps keyed to the specific urinary profile of middle-aged drunkards. Technical details will not be revealed but the devices incorporate truck springs, pruning shears, and a rusty bear trap I got at a flea market in Amarillo.

Great. Now I have to pee in your drive way.

299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:00:09am

re: #295 JasonA

Now that is fucking funny.

300 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:01:17am

re: #299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now that is fucking funny.

Did you watch the attached video?

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:01:50am

If everyone is gonna be in a good mood, I might have to leave!!
//

302 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:07:43am
303 abolitionist  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:11:47am

File under Better Late Than Never:
Fidel latest to say Cuba's communism doesn't work

Jeffrey Goldberg, a national correspondent for The Atlantic magazine, asked Castro if Cuba's economic system was still worth exporting to other countries, and Castro replied: "The Cuban model doesn't even work for us anymore," Goldberg wrote Wednesday in a post on his Atlantic blog.
304 garhighway  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:14:39am

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

People who talk in the first person makes CCA angry.
/

Greatest Ricky Henderson quote of all time:

"Ricky doesn't like it when Ricky can't find Ricky's limo".

I miss him. He was funny.

305 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:15:01am

re: #303 abolitionist

File under Better Late Than Never:
Fidel latest to say Cuba's communism doesn't work

Did he tell President Obama?
/

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:16:21am

re: #304 garhighway

Greatest Ricky Henderson quote of all time:

"Ricky doesn't like it when Ricky can't find Ricky's limo".

I miss him. He was funny.

I went to a Rays game and Ricky hit a HR to put the A's ahead. Ricky angers me.

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:21:01am

If this isn't awesome, there is no awesome.
[Link: www.myfoxboston.com...]

308 garhighway  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:21:47am

re: #306 Cannadian Club Akbar

I went to a Rays game and Ricky hit a HR to put the A's ahead. Ricky angers me.

"Ricky likes it when Ricky's HR beats the Rays and Ricky wins."

(Imagined quote)

309 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:24:26am

re: #285 Shiplord Kirel

I may not be ready for this brave new world of the 21st century, even though we are a decade into it now.
This creeps me out:
Google Street image of my friggin' house. Fortunately this is more obscure than most of the images, but still...

I know how you feel. The first time I saw a google street view of my house, it creeped me out.

310 garhighway  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:25:22am

Interesting tidbit from the WSJ:

News Alert
from The Wall Street Journal


U.S. Marines early Thursday boarded and seized control of a German-owned commercial vessel that had been commandeered by pirates, in what appeared to be the first American-led military boarding of its kind amid a recent surge of attacks in the Gulf of Aden and along the east coast of Africa.

A raiding party of 24 Marines boarded the ship about 85 miles southeast of Mukallah, Yemen, in the Gulf of Aden, according to the U.S. Navy.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

311 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:26:19am

re: #309 reine.de.tout

I know how you feel. The first time I saw a google street view of my house, it creeped me out.

I was kinda scared the first time I peeked in to your window.
/

312 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:26:53am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was kinda scared the first time I peeked in to your window.
/

You are so cruising for a bruising.

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:27:13am

re: #310 garhighway

That story was just on my radio.

314 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:27:35am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was kinda scared the first time I peeked in to your window.
/

!!!
Watchit.

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:27:41am

re: #312 Varek Raith

You are so cruising for a bruising.

I live life on the edge.
/

316 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:30:11am

Vatican: Quran burning 'outrageous'

(CNN) -- Burning the Quran would be an "outrageous and grave gesture," the Vatican said Wednesday, joining a chorus of voices pleading with a small Florida church not to burn Islam's holy book on the anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Vatican body responsible for dialogue with other religions expressed "great concern" about the plan by Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it would be a "disrespectful, disgraceful act." She was speaking Tuesday night at a State Department dinner in honor of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Her statement came a day after the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, warned that the plan "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.

But despite the growing pressure, the pastor of the Florida church, Terry Jones, said Wednesday that "as of this time we have no intention of canceling."

Jones all week has rebuffed pleas to call off the event, saying radical Islamists are the target of his message.

"The general needs to point his finger to radical Islam and tell them to shut up, tell them to stop, tell them that we will not bow our knees to them," Jones said on CNN's "AC360."

"We are burning the book," Jones said. "We are not killing someone. We are not murdering people."

Jones announced Wednesday that the church's website provider has "canceled" Dove World Outreach Center's accounts, though its website, and another URL for a book written by Jones titled "Islam is of the Devil," were still accessible Wednesday evening.

"We feel that it's definitely an indirect attack on our freedom of speech," Jones said, adding that the provider, Rackspace, is "trying to shut us down."

But he said, "This is not going to affect the event going forward."

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:31:10am

re: #316 Varek Raith

But touching small boys is fine?
//

318 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:32:12am

re: #316 Varek Raith

I'm thinking the Pastor has had more than his share of 15 minutes of fame. One guy with 50 parishioners shouldn't be getting this much face time.

319 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:32:18am

re: #317 Cannadian Club Akbar

But touching small boys is fine?
//

Oh, yeah, you're definitely not long for this world.
/

320 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:33:10am

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

That would be run by The Holy Church of Bacon, correct?


I....praise the Lord, I'm finally home!

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:35:33am
322 garhighway  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:35:35am

OT:

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected a suit against Jeppesen Dataplan, a Boeing sub, for it's role in setting up the extraordinary rendition flights.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I am not sure what I think of the whole extraordinary rendition program, but I am sure that being allowed to sue some contractor that was hired to arrange for the jet is the wrong way to raise the issue.

323 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:37:05am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

Igor? Geez. We need better names.

I'm calling the next one "Tiamat".

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:37:45am

re: #322 garhighway

OT:

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected a suit against Jeppesen Dataplan, a Boeing sub, for it's role in setting up the extraordinary rendition flights.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I am not sure what I think of the whole extraordinary rendition program, but I am sure that being allowed to sue some contractor that was hired to arrange for the jet is the wrong way to raise the issue.

Such a waste of money. I have 5 acres and a drill.

325 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:45:31am

Obama implores minister to call off Quran burning

I think it is beneath the dignity of the office for the President of the United States to implore this snot-weasel to do anything except check his last 20 years worth of tax returns.

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:46:46am

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

Obama implores minister to call off Quran burning

I think it is beneath the dignity of the office for the President of the United States to implore this snot-weasel to do anything except check his last 20 years worth of tax returns.

He can't even check Tim Geithners.

327 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:48:16am

re: #326 Cannadian Club Akbar

He can't even check Tim Geithners.

Or Charlie Rangel.

328 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:48:52am

re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar

Such a waste of money. I have 5 acres and a drill.

Is it safe? Or was that not what you were talking about?

329 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:49:54am

re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar

Such a waste of money. I have 5 acres and a drill.

You don't need a drill.
Just tell him some of your jokes.
/
:P

330 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:50:11am

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

Obama implores minister to call off Quran burning

It's just a gesture to show the world that he

a) cannot forbid it
but
b) does not approve.

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:53:44am

re: #328 PT Barnum

Is it safe? Or was that not what you were talking about?


[Video]

That drill is pretty small.

332 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:54:09am

re: #329 Varek Raith

You don't need a drill.
Just tell him some of your jokes.
/
:P

You teh funny.

334 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:01:05am

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

You teh funny.

How about this one?

The NYT reports this week that a previously unknown painting by Salvador Dali has been discovered in a warehouse in New York City. The painting is of a vegetable garden, done in Dali's signature surrealistic style. Preliminary estimates of the painting's value are complicated by the fact that some people would pay anything to get their hands on a cabbage patch Dali.

335 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:02:06am
336 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:02:50am

Uh-oh, Anyone have Tom Brady in their fantasy league?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]


NFL quarterback Tom Brady was involved in a car accident Thursday morning in Boston, MyFoxBoston.com reports.

The New England Patriots quarterback was reportedly "shaken" following the two-car crash. He was not transported to a hospital and his condition remains unknown, according to the station.

The hydraulic cutting equipment known as the "jaws of life" was used at the scene, although it was not known if rescuers employed it with Brady's car or the other driver's.

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:02:56am

re: #334 PT Barnum

How about this one?

The NYT reports this week that a previously unknown painting by Salvador Dali has been discovered in a warehouse in New York City. The painting is of a vegetable garden, done in Dali's signature surrealistic style. Preliminary estimates of the painting's value are complicated by the fact that some people would pay anything to get their hands on a cabbage patch Dali.

We have a Dali museum in St. Pete.

338 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:03:26am

re: #336 RogueOne

That was just on my radio.

339 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:04:50am

re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar

If he wasn't taken to the hospital he must be physically ok.

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:05:14am

I hate people who smoke my cigarettes. See: My Brother.

341 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:05:52am

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate people who smoke my cigarettes. See: My Brother.

Deflate his car's tires.
/

342 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:06:37am

re: #281 Cannadian Club Akbar

I walked a couple miles this week. Now I am kinda limping around. I think I'll get me a motorized wheelchair. It's a win win.
/

a HOVER-ROUND!
Stay in your own home!
Pay little or nothing!

I hate those commercials.

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:07:14am

re: #341 Varek Raith

Deflate his car's tires.
/

I could. But then I can't send him to the store for more smokes. You really need to think these things through.
/

344 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:07:43am

re: #342 reine.de.tout

a HOVER-ROUND!
Stay in your own home!
Pay little or nothing!

I hate those commercials.

My hover-round's gonna have surface to surface missiles.
GET OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!

345 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:08:17am

re: #343 Cannadian Club Akbar

I could. But then I can't send him to the store for more smokes. You really need to think these things through.
/

Make him walk.
/I'm eeevil, so I did think it through.

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:11:18am

re: #342 reine.de.tout

a HOVER-ROUND!
Stay in your own home!
Pay little or nothing!

I hate those commercials.

But if I have one, I can go to the Grand Canyon, the Statue of Liberty!!!

347 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:12:51am

re: #345 Varek Raith

Make him walk.
/I'm eeevil, so I did think it through.

I'm kinda ebil, but I make myself walk.
/dyslexia?

348 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:15:45am

I've been up for nearly two days.
I iz tired.
Night shifts suck.

Night everyone!

349 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:16:35am

re: #348 Varek Raith

I've been up for nearly two days.
I iz tired.
Night shifts suck.

Night everyone!

Lazy.
/

350 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:23:09am
351 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:31:19am

re: #350 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh, for the love of Pete. Maybe that was the wrong terminology.

Good news, bad news story. If you're raped in jail at least you won't get the HIV.

352 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:31:48am

Get Your Jailhouse Rocks Off!!!

353 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:37:31am

re: #351 RogueOne

Good news, bad news story. If you're raped in jail at least you won't get the HIV.

I don't want to be anal raped, but I would buy a Moonpie from commissary for a BJ.
///

354 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:37:39am

This ought to be fun:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Kinsley, Scarborough to POLITICO


Both Mike and Joe will write from an ideological perspective—something our current reporters and columnists do not do—and their work will be labeled accordingly. They’ll both write on what interests them, and will not attempt to coordinate their columns. While they won’t be working in a classic point/counterpoint format (“Mike, you ignorant slut”) they will look for ways to engage each other in conversation from time to time….
355 harrylook  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:39:23am

Too bad, I'm always late to the discussion.

He didn't say 'basement'. His logic is way wrong, but there's no need to exaggerate what he said. I do think it would be much better - if it is really to be an 'interfaith center' - to have a church, synagogue and mosque all on the same level, or just one room for worship, shared by all faiths. But it's not my building....

Anyway, I've been receiving and reading Cliff May's newsletter for the Foundation for Defense of Democracies for years, and it's clear to me that even though he is dead wrong on this issue, he is not a bigot or islamophobe. FWIW....

356 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:42:24am

re: #353 Cannadian Club Akbar

My BiL was sent to a max fed facility at 18. Within the first few weeks he had his teeth knocked out of his head and an ear ripped off. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why his teeth were knocked out. At year 7 of his 8 yr sentence they caught him on video leaving a cell where a guy was stabbed 27 times. You have to be severely pissed to stab someone that many times, I can guess what would make him want to give someone that much payback but it's not a question you ask someone.

I still make prison rape jokes because they're the darkest of dark humor but really, they ain't all that funny.

357 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:42:27am

Nap time. BBIAB.

358 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:44:09am

re: #356 RogueOne

Holy crap!!

359 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:45:39am

All right, now it is really nap time.

360 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:49:54am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

Igor? Geez. We need better names.

That wouldn't be the first time Igor caused panic and destruction.

361 harlequinade  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 6:51:21am

re: #248 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well combined with what I already have, it leads me field 4 full squads of mechanized infantry, 2 squads of airborne stormtroopers, plus have extra left over to fill out and armored command squad. Depending on the rules I use, I can either use them for IG or as an Inquisition assault team.

Plus, since these are 40k stormtroopers, they can hit the broadside of a barn.

This.
This is one of the reasons that i come here.

362 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:05:02am

Um, the whole point is that Rauf and his apologists now insist "it's not a mosque."

If it's not a mosque, but an "community kumbaya peace and love and swimming center with spaces that could possibly be used for prayer if someone happens to want to pray while walking by them," why does anyone care which of those spaces happen to be designated for Islam?

363 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:10:30am

It has been called a "Ground Zero Mosque" enough times so that the name and the image of a mosque standing over the ruins of the WTC has stuck in most American's heads

At this point, we are no longer in a position to argue with the realities created by modern media, let us just accept them and react to them in which ever manner promotes our short-term interests.

/

364 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:10:54am

re: #362 kamala

It's not a mosque.

It's a community center that contains a mosque.

Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

I believe that any location where Muslims gather to pray is considered a mosque-- which means, since they're already using that location for prayer, that it's a mosque already.

365 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:27:12am

re: #362 kamala

Hey my man, see if you can follow along with Brother Beck:

366 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:30:55am

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

He answered a question. I'm not sure what else he was suppose to say. I found his reply tempered and reasonable.

367 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:33:36am

I farted.

368 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:35:55am

re: #365 Jeff In Ohio

Well, in his system ob belief, that is the case. But my daddy taught me that two plus two equals five and I will stand up for my right to express that belief.

It means that I have failed every math test I have ever taken, but I will not be deterred by this mathematical "pseudoscience".

My teacher tried to tell me it was not a matter of belief, it was a matter of objective reality.

But my daddy taught me not to believe in objective reality wherever it differed from the tenets of our faith.

369 laZardo  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:36:47am

re: #367 Jeff In Ohio

I farted.

/with apologies to a certain herbivore.

371 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:52:15am

Amy Itunes experts here?

372 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:53:16am

At last, the answer to why unemployment is so high: it's YOUR fault! (Yes, yours, miserable peon.) Why? Because of your "fat paycheck" (you know, the one that hasn't risen in real terms since the 70s).

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

373 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:53:37am

re: #371 Walter L. Newton

Amy Itunes experts here?

Sort of - what is your issue?

374 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:54:08am

re: #364 Obdicut

It's not a mosque.

It's a community center that contains a mosque.

No, according to park51.org: "Park51 is a nonsectarian community, cultural and interfaith spiritual center along with a Muslim prayer area and a monument to honor all those we lost on 9/11"

Why won't they call it a mosque, since that's so easy to "grasp"?

And WTF is an "interfaith spiritual center"?

375 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:56:00am

re: #374 kamala

No, according to park51.org: "Park51 is a nonsectarian community, cultural and interfaith spiritual center along with a Muslim prayer area and a monument to honor all those we lost on 9/11"

Why won't they call it a mosque, since that's so easy to "grasp"?

And WTF is an "interfaith spiritual center"?

The Pentagon has a Mosque inside it.
Is the Pentagon a Mosque?

376 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:56:05am

re: #374 kamala

My Catholic elementary school had a chapel attached. It was still a school.

377 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:56:40am

re: #374 kamala

Why won't they call it a mosque, since that's so easy to "grasp"?

Why won't USF call itself a church?


And WTF is an "interfaith spiritual center"?

I'm just guessing here, but maybe it's a center where people of different faiths can come and learn about each others faiths, share, find commonality, and so on?

Does that deeply confuse you or something?

378 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:56:43am

re: #374 kamala


Why won't they call it a mosque, since that's so easy to "grasp"?

Because it isn't a mosque? Is a Christian community center with a prayer room a church?

And WTF is an "interfaith spiritual center"?

Google is your friend. There are lots of them out there.

379 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:57:04am

Fallout from Jan Brewer's disastrous and embarrassing debate performance....
Gov. gains 3 points


Jan Brewer verbally stumbled, went silent and mangled her grammar during last week's televised debate.

The result of her performance, a new statewide survey indicates, is that she is even more popular.

Pollster Scott Rasmussen found 60 percent of the 500 likely Arizona voters questioned in the automated telephone survey on Tuesday said they intend to vote for the incumbent. That's up three points from a survey taken a week before the debate.

Democrat Terry Goddard remains stuck at 38 percent.

And just 1 percent of those questioned said they had not yet made up their minds.

While Brewer was reveling in the new numbers at a campaign event in SaddleBrooke Wednesday, Goddard said he didn't believe it.

"This is a Rasmussen poll that asks us to believe something that is almost impossible to believe, and that is she picked up support after her horrifyingly bad performance," he said.

"I can't understand it," Goddard continued. "The poll itself has to be flawed."

380 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:57:59am

re: #374 kamala

Are these the same 'serious questions' Cliff May talks about having, or have we gotten to those yet?

381 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:00:03am

re: #373 iossarian

Sort of - what is your issue?

I have folders on my hard drive... such as "french_lesson" and french_lesson has 75 short MP3 clips in it. I want a folder called "french_lesson" to eventually appear on my Ipod Touch, which if I select, it will play those clips.

Same with any folder I have on my computer that has audio tracks in them.

If a folder on my hard drive named "Tommy" has all the audio tracks from the stage show, I simply want a folder to show up on my Ipod call "Tommy" and all the songs in that folder.

If I try to drop my "French_lesson" folder into Itunes, all I get is all 75 tracks, not grouped into any folder, album, or whatever, just 75 individual tracks.

Most MP3 players I've had in the past simply allowed me to add my own folders, with my own organization...

382 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:00:16am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Maybe people genuinely want stupid and angry.

383 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:01:23am

So much for sleep.
Ah, well.

384 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:01:44am

re: #375 Varek Raith

The Pentagon has a Mosque inside it.
Is the Pentagon a Mosque?

The pentagon doesn't have a mosque in it, why do people keep saying that?

385 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:02:23am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I've already placed my bet that she wins by at least 15 pts.

386 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:05:30am

re: #381 Walter L. Newton

You can "batch adjust" files in iTunes. Once you've imported the files, you select all the ones that you want in an album (click on the first one, and then shift+click on the last, hopefully they appear grouped in the music listing).

Then right-click on them and select "get info".

Then enter your desired album designation, and click OK - it should update all the files at once. You can set other data elements as well (artist, album artist etc.).

Hopefully that does what you want? There are also command-line tools for setting the album details in mp3 files, but for me the method I just described is usually good enough.

387 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:05:56am

Opposition Group Claims Iran Secretly Developing 'Major' Nuclear Enrichment Site

An Iranian resistance group claimed Thursday that it has compiled evidence that Iran has been secretly developing a nuclear enrichment site for years outside Tehran, with one official accusing the country of "lying through their teeth" in claiming to have disclosed all its nuclear activity to international inspectors.

The Iran Policy Committee hosted a press conference in Washington, D.C., where research from the Iranian resistance, known as the Mujahedeen Khalq, was unveiled. It could not be independently confirmed.

The presenters cited evidence they claimed was compiled after years of extensive research. They said that the enrichment site is located near the city of Qazvin, about 75 miles outside of Tehran. The group claimed the regime has spent about $100 million to date on the project, which started in early 2005, and that construction is 85 percent complete.

Soona Samsami, an Iranian activist, called the project a "major" enrichment site more important than the facility at Qom confirmed by Western officials last year.

Meanwhile Dinnerjacket plans to meet friends near the Israeli border in Lebanon...

Report: Ahmadinejad to visit Lebanon's border with Israel

388 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:07:15am

re: #375 Varek Raith

re: #377 Obdicut

Why won't USF call itself a church?

Park51 doesn't say it includes a "mosque," they say it includes a "Muslim prayer area"

USF doesn't include a "St. Ignatius Christian prayer area." It's a church.

Park 51 won't call it a mosque. Why is that?

389 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:09:12am

re: #386 iossarian

You can "batch adjust" files in iTunes. Once you've imported the files, you select all the ones that you want in an album (click on the first one, and then shift+click on the last, hopefully they appear grouped in the music listing).

Then right-click on them and select "get info".

Then enter your desired album designation, and click OK - it should update all the files at once. You can set other data elements as well (artist, album artist etc.).

Hopefully that does what you want? There are also command-line tools for setting the album details in mp3 files, but for me the method I just described is usually good enough.

I see what you are saying, I guess that would work.

I just noticed that I can drop a folder of files into a "playlist" which I can name the playlist myself, and it shows up on the IPod as a play list, with the tracks under it, I guess that would be a way to do it.

390 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:09:40am

re: #375 Varek Raith

The Pentagon has a Mosque inside it.
Is the Pentagon a Mosque?

Pentagon has no mosque.

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

391 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:10:35am

re: #389 Walter L. Newton


I just noticed that I can drop a folder of files into a "playlist" which I can name the playlist myself, and it shows up on the IPod as a play list, with the tracks under it, I guess that would be a way to do it.

Yes, that works too.

392 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:10:44am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Fallout from Jan Brewer's disastrous and embarrassing debate performance...
Gov. gains 3 points

As long as she keeps up a tough profile on immigration and border issues, her re-election is all but guaranteed.

393 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:10:52am

Consider my #375 retracted

394 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:10:52am

re: #381 Walter L. Newton

1) Which version of iTunes are you using? There is a verison 10 just released on Mac, probably on Windows as well. Also ensure your iPod touch is up to date as well.
2) Open Preferences and go to the advanced tab. Make sure "Keep iTunes Folder Organized" is checked. This, I know, is for music albums and tracks, but may also work for your case. If you wish, the folders can be arranged under your iTunes media folder - check the next box down if you wish.
3) Use File, Add to Library ... to add your files to iTunes. Apple may allow you to drag & drop but it's rather brain damaged about it.

Hope this helps. The iPod Touch can be a useful gaget if you can get it to work the way you work.

395 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:11:09am

re: #388 kamala

re: #377 Obdicut

Park51 doesn't say it includes a "mosque," they say it includes a "Muslim prayer area"

Oh noes. Those sneaky Muslims! They're refusing to call it a mosque, they must be up to something!

Thank you for admitting that Park51 isn't a mosque, though. Baby steps, I guess.

I think a Muslim prayer area that hosts the five daily prayers is a form of mosque. So you're apparently upset at them for not writing the word 'mosque'.

Why?

Furthermore, have you managed to get a grip on what an interfaith center is yet, or are you still poking that idea with a stick?

396 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:13:21am

re: #395 Obdicut


In the end, what the heck difference does it make? They have the right to excercise their faith in America, they can call it a mosque or not call it a mosque.

It will still be known as the "Ground Zero Mosque" in the minds of all Americans who get their information from Fox News, and that is all that matters at this point.

397 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:14:40am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

She really needs to have that mole looked at...

398 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:17:05am

re: #396 ralphieboy

In the end, what the heck difference does it make? They have the right to excercise their faith in America, they can call it a mosque or not call it a mosque.


The question that Cliff May and other opponents of the project keep dancing around is "why can't we change our rules for those people?"

399 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:17:08am

re: #369 laZardo

Aaah. My namesake.

400 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:18:17am

re: #394 wlewisiii

1) Which version of iTunes are you using? There is a verison 10 just released on Mac, probably on Windows as well. Also ensure your iPod touch is up to date as well.
2) Open Preferences and go to the advanced tab. Make sure "Keep iTunes Folder Organized" is checked. This, I know, is for music albums and tracks, but may also work for your case. If you wish, the folders can be arranged under your iTunes media folder - check the next box down if you wish.
3) Use File, Add to Library ... to add your files to iTunes. Apple may allow you to drag & drop but it's rather brain damaged about it.

Hope this helps. The iPod Touch can be a useful gaget if you can get it to work the way you work.

No... that doesn't work...

Yes I have Itunes 10 and a new Ipod Touch 8gig 2nd Generation (since the 4th generation is coming out real soon, the 2nd generation was on sale at Staples for 168, good deal).

I can drop and drag, but Itunes still looks at these tracks as just separate tracks, not all my audio is associated with an album or and artist etc.

Most of my stuff was ripped with simple tools, and all that fancy information that can be attached to audio tracks is not there, and Itunes really wants that info to arrange something.

That's why on my hard drive, I have folders, with tracks from a certain album in that folder, but plopping them into Itunes doesn't mean that Itunes suddenly knows that all those tracks should be part of the same "set."

See my comment above, it seems that "playlists" are a sort of folder idea that I can group my own stuff under... I just tried that, it works fine, works for me.

I understand that Itunes is intent on you buying content from Apple and they make it hard to manage data yourself.

Thanks for the help.

401 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:18:40am

re: #385 RogueOne

I've already placed my bet that she wins by at least 15 pts.

Yeah, she probably has it locked up.

402 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:19:34am

re: #395 Obdicut

VICTORY MOSQUE! VICTORY MOSQUE!

When I retire and buy an RV I am definitely christening it the "Victory Winnebago".

403 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:21:45am

re: #402 iossarian

VICTORY MOSQUE! VICTORY MOSQUE!

When I retire and buy an RV I am definitely christening it the "Victory Winnebago".

Image: spaceballs-the-movie-1973-winnebago-eagle-v-spaceship.jpg

404 iossarian  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:22:30am
405 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:23:11am

This is the same Cliff May that advocated strongly for the use of torture on American citizens in the investigation of terrorism. Only he doesn't like when people call it torture. He also called for the summary mass execution of Guantanamo detainees, (he later claimed he was "kidding". hurr hurr)

All of this was in the National Review. And some of you still take NR seriously. Why?

406 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:24:38am

re: #395 Obdicut

Oh noes. Those sneaky Muslims! They're refusing to call it a mosque, they must be up to something!

I think a Muslim prayer area that hosts the five daily prayers is a form of mosque. So you're apparently upset at them for not writing the word 'mosque'.

Have you *ever* heard a church referred to as a "Chrsitian prayer area." Or a synagogue as a "Jewish prayer area"?

Park51 goes so far as to capitalize it on this page: [Link: blog.park51.org...]

The "Muslim Prayer Space." Perhaps they'll try to trademark that.

I am upset, because they're not being honest. They want to have it both ways. They want it to be a mosque but they want to be able to say it's "not a mosque" (because, you see it's a "Muslim Prayer Space, silly, not a mosque.")

As for the whole issue of whether it "is" a mosque or "contains" a mosque, you've got to be kidding. If people have issue with a mosque being built, why does it matter whether that mosque is inside something else or not. That's the type of excuse my 4 year old would come up with: No, I didn't throw my lunch away. I threw my lunch box away!

407 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:26:09am

re: #406 kamala

Skip to this question: If people have issues with a mosque being built, why do their issues matter?

408 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:26:16am

U.S. names Asian carp czar

The White House has tapped a former leader of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources and the Indiana Wildlife Federation as the Asian carp czar to oversee the federal response to keeping the invasive species out of the Great Lakes.

On a conference call today with Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin and other congressional leaders, President Obama's Council on Environmental Quality announced the selection of John Goss to lead the near $80 million, multi-pronged federal attack against Asian carp.

"This is a serious challenge, a serious threat," Durbin said. "When it comes to the Asian carp threat, we are not in denial. We are not in a go-slow mode. We are in a full attack, full-speed ahead mode. We want to stop this carp from advancing."

Another job created or saved!

409 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:26:27am

re: #400 Walter L. Newton

I see what you're saying. I agree that playlists are the best way for you to organize it all inside iTunes. I mostly do music with it and have used the Apple software to rip from the CD's we buy so it's not usually an issue for me - makes me forget that it can be.

Good luck with getting sorted out.

410 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:29:33am

Hello all

411 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:32:33am

re: #407 jaunte

Skip to this question: If people have issues with a mosque being built, why do their issues matter?

You tell me, why are you writing about it if it doesn't matter to you?

412 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:32:37am

re: #406 kamala

Have you *ever* heard a church referred to as a "Chrsitian prayer area." Or a synagogue as a "Jewish prayer area"?

No to the former, yes to the second. Minyans are often held wherever they can be, not just at synagogues. It's the attendees, not the building, that makes it a religious ceremony in Judaism-- probably in Islam too.

Churches, I believe, are actually consecrated spaces in most Christian religions. But probably not all.

I'm sorry, was that answer a little too factual for you?

I am upset, because they're not being honest. They want to have it both ways. They want it to be a mosque but they want to be able to say it's "not a mosque" (because, you see it's a "Muslim Prayer Space, silly, not a mosque.")

Define 'mosque'.

Have you gotten a handle on the interfaith center part, or is that still evading you? You seem to be having difficulty with it.

413 deranged cat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:33:09am

Colbert is awesome.. He did quite a show last night for the returning troops from Iraq. plus, Biden serving hot dogs :P

also, be sure to check out "Restoring Truthiness"
[Link: www.colbertrally.com...]

414 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:33:19am

re: #407 jaunte

Skip to this question: If people have issues with a mosque being built, why do their issues matter?

Just for kicks, turn that question around. If people have issues with burning Korans, why do their issues matter?

415 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:33:58am

A Pastor of Public Relations

As the 236 viewers of the Sept. 12, 2009, episode of the show may recall, Mr. Jones staged an anti-Islam protest on the last anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks but the few reporters at that event, also attended by about 30 members of his church, were from local newspapers like The Gainesville Sun and The Independent Florida Alligator.

This year, thanks to the attention generated by the promise of a more televisual form of protest — the burning of about 200 copies of Islam’s holy book — national and international news crews and their satellite trucks are lined up on the lawn of the church Mr. Jones calls the Dove World Outreach Center.

416 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:34:17am

If people have a problem with being tortured, why does their discomfort matter?

417 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:34:21am

re: #411 kamala

You tell me, why are you writing about it if it doesn't matter to you?

Equality before the law matters to anyone who thinks the Constitution matters; I do, and I suspect you think an exception needs to be made for mosque building.

418 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:34:39am

re: #415 Killgore Trout

I mentioned earlier that his 15 mins should have been up years ago.

419 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:35:44am

re: #418 RogueOne

I mentioned earlier that his 15 mins should have been up years ago.

The press shares the responsibility for creating such an outrage over this.

420 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:35:59am

re: #414 RogueOne

Just for kicks, turn that question around. If people have issues with burning Korans, why do their issues matter?

I don't think we should be looking to mimic the radical Wahhabists as a model for our society.

421 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:36:16am

re: #419 Killgore Trout

The press shares the responsibility for creating such an outrage over this.

There was a time that the term "the press" had some definite meaning. That time has passed.

422 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:37:35am

re: #420 jaunte

I don't think we should be looking to mimic the radical Wahhabists as a model for our society.

So you don't mind the inconsistency in the arguments that we shouldn't take feelings into consideration when discussing the Park 51 placement but we should take them into consideration when some whack job burns a bunch of korans?

423 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:37:52am

Yay for sanity.

Nathan Deal - Republican candidate for Georgia Governor is not a birther fan.

Nathan Deal quickly sheds Facebook friendship with ‘birther’ attorney Orly Taitz

What makes me go "hmmmm?" is why Facebook friends are really political capital anyway? Its not like a political endorsement or contribution. Methinks the campaigns are trying to capitalize on ignorance when they make a big deal out of Facebook friends.

424 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:39:54am

re: #422 RogueOne

The building of Park51 is not intended to be a message of hatred and intimidation.

The burning of the Koran definitely is.

Do you disagree?

425 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:40:41am

re: #424 Obdicut

The building of Park51 is not intended to be a message of hatred and intimidation.

The burning of the Koran definitely is.

Do you disagree?

I'm sensing a fairy of some sort...
;)

426 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:41:20am

re: #422 RogueOne

No I don't. One group of Americans shouldn't have their rights curtailed by the feelings of another group.
The Quran burning (as Petraeus said) puts our people in danger because it can easily be used to whip up a mob.

427 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:41:21am

re: #411 kamala

You tell me, why are you writing about it if it doesn't matter to you?

You must have missed a few weeks of conversation here.

For my part this is why it matters that a Mosque be allowed two city blocks from the World Trade Center site:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That and the fact that encouraging American Muslims to build and worship freely anywhere they want is a huge message of the benefits of a free democratic society to the wannabe dictators of the world (Taliban, Al Queda, Wahabbists, etc.)

I don't know about you but I've always found the moral, ethical and legal high ground a nice place to stand.

428 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:41:34am

re: #417 jaunte

Equality before the law matters to anyone who thinks the Constitution matters; I do, and I suspect you think an exception needs to be made for mosque building.

You are incorrect. They have a right to build it. I have right to protest it.

429 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:41:39am

re: #422 RogueOne

Not trying to pick a fight with Jaunte but this goes back to the same arguments we heard about the guy who brought a rifle to an obama event out west..."just because you have a 2nd amendment right doesn't mean you should exercise it".

Where do we draw the line exactly? What rights should people give up to appease others? If it's fair to suggest one side set aside their rights for the betterment of the community, why not ask the same of everyone?

430 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:42:27am

re: #428 kamala

You are incorrect. They have a right to build it. I have right to protest it.

Why are you protesting it?

431 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:42:35am

re: #427 DaddyG

You must have missed a few weeks of conversation here.

For my part this is why it matters that a Mosque be allowed two city blocks from the World Trade Center site:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That and the fact that encouraging American Muslims to build and worship freely anywhere they want is a huge message of the benefits of a free democratic society to the wannabe dictators of the world (Taliban, Al Queda, Wahabbists, etc.)

I don't know about you but I've always found the moral, ethical and legal high ground a nice place to stand.

I have no problem with their Constitutional right to build it. But I sure do have the right to protest their building of it.

432 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:42:39am

re: #346 Cannadian Club Akbar

But if I have one, I can go to the Grand Canyon, the Statue of Liberty!!!

Those folks lined up in their hover-rounds at the edge of the Grand Canyon - that ad just freaks me out. I keep picturing one of them releasing their brakes and going over the edge.

433 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:43:05am

...And for the record the idiot preacher in Florida has the right to burn someone elses holy book. I just have the right to protest loudly that he is a foul, religion baiting, less than charitable fool.

434 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:44:14am

re: #431 kamala

I have no problem with their Constitutional right to build it. But I sure do have the right to protest their building of it.

re: #430 Varek Raith

Why are you protesting it?


What he said... why?

435 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:44:38am

re: #428 kamala

You are incorrect. They have a right to build it. I have right to protest it.

Then you bear partial responsibility for future terrorist attacks. This isn't a world of abstract ideas. Actions have real effects.

436 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:46:59am

re: #422 RogueOne

So you don't mind the inconsistency in the arguments that we shouldn't take feelings into consideration when discussing the Park 51 placement but we should take them into consideration when some whack job burns a bunch of korans?

Jones burning Qurans is meaningless. He has a right to do just that and I have a right to criticize him.

Park51 can build a mosque near GZ and Pamela Geller has a right to be critical.

People have every right to choose sides and defend or criticize whoever they please.

Public opinion will assign credibility or irrelevance as they see fit. Common sense will assign intellectual consistency, adhesion to American values or masked bigotry.

That's just the way it is.

Further, opponents and proponents of either side may at times misspeak, fumble or be wrong. So what? It is in the essence of their message that their positions can be found.

437 kamala  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:47:29am

re: #430 Varek Raith

Why are you protesting it?

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.

438 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:47:37am

RT @M_Ahmadinejad I like to retaliate by burning a book that you Americans hold dear, but the only book you care about is Facebook.

439 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:48:29am

re: #424 Obdicut

The building of Park51 is not intended to be a message of hatred and intimidation.

The burning of the Koran definitely is.

Do you disagree?

I agree that the koran burning is definitely a message born of hatred, not so much intimidation. I think the intimidation is coming from the opposing viewpoint in this instance. Obama and Petraeus are both worried about the acts of violence that are sure to occur thanks to the fla preachers antics. Burning books is retarded but to not burn them out of fear of violence by your opponent is just as retarded.

It's a tough call, I keep going back and forth kind of like my position on Park 51.

440 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:48:48am

I'm gonna start asking people exactly what their beef with Islam is. I doubt I'll get many informed answers.

If you were to take the Park51 mosque developers, The Kroan burning preacher from Dove WOrld Outrach, A group of Taliban leaders from Afganistan and the Average American protestant and lined them up by their basic beliefs about politics, freedom and justice the Taliban and the Dove world outreach would be close to each other on the intolerent side of the scale while the Park51 Muslims and American Protestants would be closer to each other on the live and let live freely side of the scale.

441 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:48:53am

re: #435 Fozzie Bear

Then you bear partial responsibility for future terrorist attacks. This isn't a world of abstract ideas. Actions have real effects.

Meh. I don't agree with that. Terrorists choices of violence are their own, entirely.

I'd say he bears responsibility for making Muslim Americans feel unwanted and under attack, which is a shitty enough burden of blame.

442 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:49:14am

re: #437 kamala

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.

First. You did not answer my question.
Second. I was 10 when the first WTC bombing happened.

443 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:49:24am

re: #426 jaunte

No I don't. One group of Americans shouldn't have their rights curtailed by the feelings of another group.
The Quran burning (as Petraeus said) puts our people in danger because it can easily be used to whip up a mob.

And therefore we shouldn't do certain things because it might result in violence from an opposing view? I have a problem with that.

444 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:49:48am

re: #437 kamala

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.


Speak for yourself. What are your specific objections to the mosque? Try to sound informed.

445 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:50:35am

re: #437 kamala

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.

On lunch break, and you are committing what I like to call the "stopped clock fallacy"

Now then why don't you tell us what his reason is since you're the one who knows it so well and thinks it is such a good one?

446 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:51:06am

re: #414 RogueOne

Just for kicks, turn that question around. If people have issues with burning Korans, why do their issues matter?

Because when people start burning books the tend to end up burning bodies.

447 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:51:12am

re: #441 Obdicut

Meh. I don't agree with that. Terrorists choices of violence are their own, entirely.

I'd say he bears responsibility for making Muslim Americans feel unwanted and under attack, which is a shitty enough burden of blame.

Of course they (terrorists) make their own decisions, and bear responsibility for them.

However, making Muslim Americans feel alienated and unwelcome is exactly the mechanism by which some of them will be radicalized. As I said, actions have real effects, and some of those effects are on the behavior of other people. This naturally includes radicalization, and the terrorist acts which result from that alienation.

448 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:51:53am

re: #435 Fozzie Bear

Then you bear partial responsibility for future terrorist attacks. This isn't a world of abstract ideas. Actions have real effects.

That sounds a lot like what a 6-year-old would say.

449 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:52:00am

re: #443 RogueOne

Well, I'm willing to choose not to burn a Quran if a general in Afghanistan tells me it'll create some problems for the troops there.

450 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:52:39am

re: #436 researchok

Jones burning Qurans is meaningless. He has a right to do just that and I have a right to criticize him.

Park51 can build a mosque near GZ and Pamela Geller has a right to be critical.

People have every right to choose sides and defend or criticize whoever they please.

Public opinion will assign credibility or irrelevance as they see fit. Common sense will assign intellectual consistency, adhesion to American values or masked bigotry.

That's just the way it is.

Further, opponents and proponents of either side may at times misspeak, fumble or be wrong. So what? It is in the essence of their message that their positions can be found.

I'm always searching for consistency. I don't believe US citizens should ever willingly subdue their rights just to make everyone else comfortable. OTOH, I pick and choose my battles.

451 Randall Gross  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:54:23am

re: #406 kamala

That's bullshit. Within a 20 mile radius of me are at least three Jewish community centers, all containing Synagogues, you find chapels, prayer rooms, etc at every Christian university yet they are not called churches.

Your willingness to obfuscate and thereby call Muslims dishonest exposes your bigotted agenda.

452 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:54:37am

re: #439 RogueOne

I agree that the koran burning is definitely a message born of hatred, not so much intimidation.

So, therefore it's very, very, very different thank building park51.

So comparing people's 'feelings' on the two is as ridiculous as comparing the feelings of people dealing with a burning cross on their lawn or a church being built.

Your syllogism had no merit.

Burning books is retarded but to not burn them out of fear of violence by your opponent is just as retarded.

But that is a distortion of the argument entirely.

The books should not be burned because it is a message of hate and intolerance.

In addition, this message of hate and intolerance undermines our claims to be tolerant of Islam, causing those in the Middle East who oppose us to be able to point to the incident as a sign that it really is a holy war, getting new recruits who might not otherwise have signed on.

The reason not to do it is because it's morally and ethically wrong. It's also unwise to do it, because it will put our troops in peril. Two entirely different lines of reasoning.


It's a tough call, I keep going back and forth kind of like my position on Park 51.

What is a tough call?

They have right to burn the books. They shouldn't, because it's such a foul message of contempt.

They have a right to build Park51. And they should, because it is in no way a message of hate or intolerance, but rather one of ecumenicism and freedom.


So what's the tough call?

453 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:56:32am

re: #439 RogueOne

I agree that the koran burning is definitely a message born of hatred, not so much intimidation. I think the intimidation is coming from the opposing viewpoint in this instance. Obama and Petraeus are both worried about the acts of violence that are sure to occur thanks to the fla preachers antics. Burning books is retarded but to not burn them out of fear of violence by your opponent is just as retarded.

It's a tough call, I keep going back and forth kind of like my position on Park 51.

Suppose you are right.

As it happens, I agree that the burning of Qurans may inspire violence- but that is the excuse.

The people who will be violent do not need book burnings to be viole3nt. They are not religiously tolerant, by any means. A look at current religious intolerance (church attacks, burnings, institutionalized anti semitism, etc) bears that out.

That means Jones will have enabled and nourished this round of violence, no different than if he had put the gun into a killers hands- all so he could have a few more minutes of air time

This is not the same as burning disco albums at center field. He isn't a duck mascot to a sports team.

454 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:58:04am

re: #447 Fozzie Bear

Of course they (terrorists) make their own decisions, and bear responsibility for them.

However, making Muslim Americans feel alienated and unwelcome is exactly the mechanism by which some of them will be radicalized. As I said, actions have real effects, and some of those effects are on the behavior of other people. This naturally includes radicalization, and the terrorist acts which result from that alienation.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that alienation and radicalization inevitably leads to terrorism. To me, that takes away too much of the personal responsibility from it. There are plenty of persecuted religious groups who never turn to terrorism, despite persecution.

I do think that it might, for example, lead to Muslim Americans being less willing to inform on any suspect or dangerous individuals in their midst, out of less trust for Americans in general. That could, eventually, lead to deaths-- but that's a very attenuated chain of responsibility.

455 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:58:27am

re: #453 researchok

This is not the same as burning disco albums at center field.

In retrospect that didn't turn out so well either. /

456 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:58:36am

re: #437 kamala

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.


You've been registered since '04. You must know how it works - you cite something, YOU provide the link (or phrase it yourself) - you don't tell people to "go look it up".

The Park51 project will be a community center open to all,. as I understand it.

Within the community center, there will be a mosque (or Islamic prayer center). I understand there will also be areas set aside for Jewish and Christian prayers, described as "prayer centers", which is pretty clear. What does it matter if these areas are called mosques, chapels or prayer centers? None of those terms are (or should be) scary - none of them are unclear, they all describe areas where people of a particular faith may pray. Why is it distressing to anyone that the term "prayer center" is used rather than something else?

This picking apart what people say because they used word or phrase "A" instead of word or phrase "B" is ridiculous, when the meaning is clear regardless of which word is used.

457 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:58:45am

There is no call to make. It is within the pastor's rights, legally, to burn holy books. It is also within his rights, should he choose to do so, to protest funerals, advocate publicly for legalized cannibalism, and to buy political advertisements advocating the lowering of the legal age of sexual consent to 3 years old.

That doesn't make any of it the right thing to do, just because it is legal.

458 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 8:59:44am

re: #443 RogueOne

And therefore we shouldn't do certain things because it might result in violence from an opposing view? I have a problem with that.

This isn't an 'opposing view'. If it were just that, I'd agree with you 100%

This is the KKK with a muttons hops guy at the helm. I can oppose with no guilty conscience.

459 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:00:32am

re: #458 researchok

The phrase "muttons hops" made me hungry. Now I want to cook some mutton in some beer.

460 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:02:03am

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Qu'aran and learn for myself what is in it. I may ask the local Mosque if my Mormon family can observe their services too.

I'm getting tired of this demonization crap and I fear it won't end well for the love of Freedom, love of America or love of Christ for that matter.

BTW? Which (affordable) Enlgish translation of the Qu'aran is considered the most authoratative by you folks here that are familiar with it?

461 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:02:26am

re: #454 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that alienation and radicalization inevitably leads to terrorism. To me, that takes away too much of the personal responsibility from it. There are plenty of persecuted religious groups who never turn to terrorism, despite persecution..

This is a very important distinction. Huge, in fact.

Bad character leads to violence and terror. Period.

People want to find root causes for evil, but have no need to do the same for good.

Bad people do bad things. It's that simple.

462 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:03:11am

re: #459 Obdicut

The phrase "muttons hops" made me hungry. Now I want to cook some mutton in some beer.

I want a muffin. And some beer.

463 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:03:18am

re: #457 Fozzie Bear

That doesn't make any of it the right thing to do, just because it is legal.

Quick- tell congress! They seem to be lacking that logic.

464 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:03:25am

They sound like two peas in a pod turds in an outhouse.

’Burn a Koran’ Pastor’s New BFF: Phelps’ ’God Hates Fags’ Crew


A Gainesville, Fla. anti-gay minister’s plan to make a bonfire out of copies of the Qu’ran--the holy book of the Muslim faith--has been denounced as an invitation to violence against U.S. troops in Afghanistan by Gen. David Petraeus and condemned by the U.S. State Department as "un-American."

Buried on the web site for the group planning to burn the sacred texts, however, is clue as to the mindset of those behind the planned bonfire: a posting "in support of Westboro Baptist," the anti-gay church based in Topeka, Kansas that is run by Fred Phelps.

An April 21 blog entry at the site’s web site recounts that on the previous Sunday, April 18, members of Dove World Outreach Center "went as a church to stand with" a contingent of street preachers from Westboro. The Westboro congregation--mostly made up of Rev. Phelps’ extended family--have gained notoriety by picketing the funerals of fallen U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The church claims that God is punishing America because gays are not sufficiently persecuted in this country. The church’s actions have spurred state laws intended to shield grieving families of fallen soldiers from the group and its famously epithet-riddled placards, which carry slogans such as "God Hates America," "Thank God for IEDs," and "God Hates Fags."

465 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:04:04am

re: #459 Obdicut

The phrase "muttons hops" made me hungry. Now I want to cook some mutton in some beer.

I'm more pedestrian- I want a big think, juicy hamburger.

I will in fact have more ramen noodles.

The dental fairy.

466 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:04:48am

re: #464 NJDhockeyfan

They sound like two peas in a pod turds in an outhouse.

’Burn a Koran’ Pastor’s New BFF: Phelps’ ’God Hates Fags’ Crew

I hope to hell those two groups don't start interbreeding.

467 Randall Gross  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:04:59am

ooops -- someone just got serially smacked down and can't respond because their arg is so flattened....

468 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:05:14am

re: #452 Obdicut

If you were able to remove your feelings from your argument you'll see it's exactly the same issue. Should the Park51 take peoples feelings into consideration when choosing their site and should the fla preacher take peoples feelings into consideration before burning the korans. They both have 1st amendment rights and they both have a vocal opposition from people with deeply held beliefs. On the one issue you believe people should ignore the feelings of others and you hold an opposite opinion on the other, both based on your feelings of the issues.

If you believe that the Park51 project has a 1st amendment right to build and should do so regardless of hurting peoples feelings then how can you say the fla preacher should not exercise his 1st amendment right out of fear that he'll hurt peoples feelings? I'm just asking for a little consistency.

469 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:05:43am

re: #460 DaddyG

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Qu'aran and learn for myself what is in it. I may ask the local Mosque if my Mormon family can observe their services too.

I'm getting tired of this demonization crap and I fear it won't end well for the love of Freedom, love of America or love of Christ for that matter.

BTW? Which (affordable) Enlgish translation of the Qu'aran is considered the most authoratative by you folks here that are familiar with it?

Pichtal translation works bes.

It isn't perfect, but it seems to be pretty reliable.

470 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:06:05am

re: #437 kamala

For the same reasons Andy McCarthy is opposed to it. Look it up. But I know, yes, he's a bigot, an Islamophobe, ignorant of the true peaceful teachings of Islam, etc. etc. In fact, he showed all those traits when he successfully prosecuted the first World Trade Bombing -- you were probably booing him then.

I looked it up. McCarthy declares his bigotry in the second paragraph:

Only the blink of an eye ago, uttering the unpleasant truth that in terms of doctrine there is no such thing as “moderate Islam” resulted in one’s banishment from what our opinion elites like to call the “mainstream,” by which they mean the narrow-minded, viciously defended circle of their own pieties and fictions.

He's a huge disappointment. I thought someone who prosecuted terrorists would have the acuity to differentiate between a terrorist and a moderate. McCarthy submitted a favorable review of Geller's book to Amazon. He's an idiot and a bigot.

471 Randall Gross  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:06:12am

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

I hope to hell those two groups don't start interbreeding.

Well they did demonstrate together against Gays at a Synagogue and other places in Gainesville a while back when a Gay was running for Mayor.

472 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:07:03am

re: #464 NJDhockeyfan

They sound like two peas in a pod turds in an outhouse.

’Burn a Koran’ Pastor’s New BFF: Phelps’ ’God Hates Fags’ Crew


Not All Christians are hateful

473 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:07:21am

re: #460 DaddyG

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Qu'aran and learn for myself what is in it. I may ask the local Mosque if my Mormon family can observe their services too.

I'm getting tired of this demonization crap and I fear it won't end well for the love of Freedom, love of America or love of Christ for that matter.

BTW? Which (affordable) Enlgish translation of the Qu'aran is considered the most authoratative by you folks here that are familiar with it?

I have mine on the bookshelf in my office, a gift from my BiL father, right next to my KJ version study bible. I may be an atheist but I'm not afraid a religious text is going to burn my fingers.

474 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:07:24am

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

I hope to hell those two groups don't start interbreeding.


Probably waaaaaay to late for that.

475 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:07:29am

re: #460 DaddyG

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Qu'aran and learn for myself what is in it. I may ask the local Mosque if my Mormon family can observe their services too.

I'm getting tired of this demonization crap and I fear it won't end well for the love of Freedom, love of America or love of Christ for that matter.

BTW? Which (affordable) Enlgish translation of the Qu'aran is considered the most authoratative by you folks here that are familiar with it?

You can also read it online if you want. The specific translation won't make much difference for your purposes.
If you go into your local mosque they will probably be more than happy to show you around. I've done it before and never had any problems (at least in this country, overseas may be a different matter). They'll be friendly and helpful. Observing prayers probably won't be a problem and they'll probably ask you to lurk in the back of the room. You might ask about observing a friday service with a sermon. I've never done that before but it could be interesting.

476 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:08:27am

re: #454 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that alienation and radicalization inevitably leads to terrorism. To me, that takes away too much of the personal responsibility from it. There are plenty of persecuted religious groups who never turn to terrorism, despite persecution.

I do think that it might, for example, lead to Muslim Americans being less willing to inform on any suspect or dangerous individuals in their midst, out of less trust for Americans in general. That could, eventually, lead to deaths-- but that's a very attenuated chain of responsibility.

There's responsibility, and then there is causation.

If a father abuses a child on a regular basis, that child is likely to grow up to become an abuser. When the child goes on to abuse, the father doesn't bear responsibility for that. He is only responsible for the abuse he heaped upon the child. That doesn't mean that the father's actions didn't create the situation that led to the child's later acts of abuse.

If we alienate Muslims now, the acts with which we alienate them will create radicalized Muslims. Once those radicalized Muslims act out violently, they will bear full responsibility for their acts. But, so too will those who alienate Muslims now bear some responsibility for creating that situation.

The United States armed Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980's. Do we now bear no responsibility at all for contributing to a situation in which he murdered his own people using the weapons we provided him?

Real actions have real effects. You can eschew the use of the word "responsibility" to describe the attribution of the effects of the effects, but it is foolish to pretend that our actions now will not set in motion events which may or may not be in our own best interests later, Much as I blame Rumsfeld and Reagan for propping up a brutal dictator in the 1980's that we ended of fighting in the past decade, I will lay some blame at the feet of those who demonize moderate Muslims now for some portion of the existence of radical Muslims in the future.

Real actions have real effects. Whatever word you wish to apply to that is up to you. I use the word responsibility.

477 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:09:05am

re: #468 RogueOne

If you were able to remove your feelings from your argument you'll see it's exactly the same issue. Should the Park51 take peoples feelings into consideration when choosing their site and should the fla preacher take peoples feelings into consideration before burning the korans. They both have 1st amendment rights and they both have a vocal opposition from people with deeply held beliefs. On the one issue you believe people should ignore the feelings of others and you hold an opposite opinion on the other, both based on your feelings of the issues.

If you believe that the Park51 project has a 1st amendment right to build and should do so regardless of hurting peoples feelings then how can you say the fla preacher should not exercise his 1st amendment right out of fear that he'll hurt peoples feelings? I'm just asking for a little consistency.


Here's some consistency from me then.

The 1rst amendment makes both acts legal.

So now we're into the moral grey area of "can, but should or shouldn't."

Park 51 is being built with good intentions to name New York a more enjoyable place to live and better neighborhood.

The Koran burning is being done with the bad intention of trying to spread hatred across our nation/world.

I consistently believe that people with good intentions should do what they see fit and try to make the best of bad situations and people with bad intentions should refrain from making things worse for everybody.

478 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:09:10am

Off to BK, I just opened a brand new package of lunch meat and it's spoiled. Freaking nasty. BBIAB.

479 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:09:39am

re: #468 RogueOne

If you were able to remove your feelings from your argument you'll see it's exactly the same issue.

I didn't actually invoke my feelings. I used logic.

Should the Park51 take peoples feelings into consideration when choosing their site and should the fla preacher take peoples feelings into consideration before burning the korans.

I understood your argument the first time. I explained why it doesn't work.

If you believe that the Park51 project has a 1st amendment right to build and should do so regardless of hurting peoples feelings then how can you say the fla preacher should not exercise his 1st amendment right out of fear that he'll hurt peoples feelings? I'm just asking for a little consistency.

You apparently ignored what I wrote. Here it is again:

They have right to burn the books. They shouldn't, because it's such a foul message of contempt.

They have a right to build Park51. And they should, because it is in no way a message of hate or intolerance, but rather one of ecumenicism and freedom.

Your argument leads to ridiculousness quickly, because it treats all messages the same, and all emotional reactions as though they're all validly equal.

480 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:10:29am

re: #472 DaddyG

Did you hear about these guys? They're dong some good for the Christian image:

[Link: www.rantrave.com...]

481 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:10:54am

re: #460 DaddyG

Our stake hosts an interfaith Thanksgiving service. Maybe yours could do the same?

482 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:13:18am

re: #476 Fozzie Bear

If we alienate Muslims now, the acts with which we alienate them will create radicalized Muslims. Once those radicalized Muslims act out violently, they will bear full responsibility for their acts. But, so too will those who alienate Muslims now bear some responsibility for creating that situation.

Agreed. But to me, it's more important to focus on the evil of creating that situation in the first place: It is simply wrong to send messages of hate and intolerance. It isn't wrong to do so because some people react to those messages with violence, but because such messages are just contemptible crap all on their own, harmful and stupid no matter what the reaction is.

483 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:13:28am

re: #476 Fozzie Bear


The United States armed Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980's. Do we now bear no responsibility at all for contributing to a situation in which he murdered his own people using the weapons we provided him?

Agree with your post but the quoted portion is a meme that needs to die. The US sold saddam helicopters. We didn't sell him guns, tanks, artillery, missiles, or any weapons systems. Hence, the US didn't "arm" iraq, the soviets did.

484 Political Atheist  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:13:33am

re: #460 DaddyG
Good for you see for yourself
What you will find is bi lingual versions. Easy to find. IMHO-It's hard to read like the Old Testament. Big cultural gap with modern Americans to say the least.

485 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:13:52am

re: #476 Fozzie Bear

There's responsibility, and then there is causation.

If a father abuses a child on a regular basis, that child is likely to grow up to become an abuser. When the child goes on to abuse, the father doesn't bear responsibility for that. He is only responsible for the abuse he heaped upon the child. That doesn't mean that the father's actions didn't create the situation that led to the child's later acts of abuse.

If we alienate Muslims now, the acts with which we alienate them will create radicalized Muslims. Once those radicalized Muslims act out violently, they will bear full responsibility for their acts. But, so too will those who alienate Muslims now bear some responsibility for creating that situation.

The United States armed Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980's. Do we now bear no responsibility at all for contributing to a situation in which he murdered his own people using the weapons we provided him?

Real actions have real effects. You can eschew the use of the word "responsibility" to describe the attribution of the effects of the effects, but it is foolish to pretend that our actions now will not set in motion events which may or may not be in our own best interests later, Much as I blame Rumsfeld and Reagan for propping up a brutal dictator in the 1980's that we ended of fighting in the past decade, I will lay some blame at the feet of those who demonize moderate Muslims now for some portion of the existence of radical Muslims in the future.

Real actions have real effects. Whatever word you wish to apply to that is up to you. I use the word responsibility.

Which is what I feel Rauf was trying to point out when he made the statement ""I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.""

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He was simply pointing out something that had a basis in historical facts... like you say "Real actions have real effects."

486 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:14:08am
487 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:14:20am

re: #473 RogueOne

I have mine on the bookshelf in my office, a gift from my BiL father, right next to my KJ version study bible. I may be an atheist but I'm not afraid a religious text is going to burn my fingers.


The ignorance about Islam is so familiar to my experience of the ignorance about my own faith.

A favorite tactic of fundie preachers to combat the eeeeevil Book of Mormon is to tell people not to read it. They then proceed to tell them what is in it that ain't really in it.

I have no animosity towards faithful god fearing protestants, jews or muslims. I do despire the Taliban like nature of the bible thumpers who would rather keep their flocks ignorant than have them discover God's word for themselves (and judge what is correct and true for themselves).

488 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:15:04am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Which is what I feel Rauf was trying to point out when he made the statement ""I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.""

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He was simply pointing out something that had a basis in historical facts... like you say "Real actions have real effects."

It is a tough pill for many Americans to swallow, but Rauf was right when he said that. We create our own monsters, more often than not.

489 webevintage  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:15:45am

re: #468 RogueOne

If you were able to remove your feelings from your argument you'll see it's exactly the same issue. Should the Park51 take peoples feelings into consideration when choosing their site and should the fla preacher take peoples feelings into consideration before burning the korans. They both have 1st amendment rights and they both have a vocal opposition from people with deeply held beliefs. On the one issue you believe people should ignore the feelings of others and you hold an opposite opinion on the other, both based on your feelings of the issues.

If you believe that the Park51 project has a 1st amendment right to build and should do so regardless of hurting peoples feelings then how can you say the fla preacher should not exercise his 1st amendment right out of fear that he'll hurt peoples feelings? I'm just asking for a little consistency.

Except one act is about hate and the other is not.

Building a mosque, while it may hurt the feelings of some of the families who lost loved ones on 9/11, is not an act of hate any more then if the Diocese of NY had bought that land and were going to build a CYC building that also has a couple of chapels in it.
And really it is NOT the fault of the folks building Park51 that some folks have gotten their feelings hurt.
That's life.
Sometimes things just hurt our feelings but that does not mean that other people who do not even know us have to spend the rest of their lives making sure they do nothing to ever hurt anyone's feelings.

490 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:15:58am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

It is a tough pill for many Americans to swallow, but Rauf was right when he said that. We create our own monsters, more often than not.

The Shah!

491 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:16:08am

re: #483 RogueOne

Agree with your post but the quoted portion is a meme that needs to die. The US sold saddam helicopters. We didn't sell him guns, tanks, artillery, missiles, or any weapons systems. Hence, the US didn't "arm" iraq, the soviets did.

Don't forget the chemical and biological systems:

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

[Link: www.gulfwarvets.com...]

492 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:17:09am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Which is what I feel Rauf was trying to point out when he made the statement ""I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.""

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He was simply pointing out something that had a basis in historical facts... like you say "Real actions have real effects."

It was an accurate statement. It was also incredibly stupid of him to say. Sort of like, "Yes, honey, those pants DO make your butt look big."

493 webevintage  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:17:26am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

Recession Recipe: Tomato Soup

That looks yummy...but it is cheaper to open a can of Cambells.

494 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:17:26am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

""I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.""


It is a tough pill for many Americans to swallow, but Rauf was right when he said that. We create our own monsters, more often than not.
495 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:17:51am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

It is a tough pill for many Americans to swallow, but Rauf was right when he said that. We create our own monsters, more often than not.


OH HI IRAN CONTRA There's some sad truth to that, doubly so after the USSR went belly up.

496 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:17:57am

re: #483 RogueOne

Agree with your post but the quoted portion is a meme that needs to die. The US sold saddam helicopters. We didn't sell him guns, tanks, artillery, missiles, or any weapons systems. Hence, the US didn't "arm" iraq, the soviets did.

Unfortunately, we sold him a hell of a lot more than helicopters. This includes chemical and biological weapons.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

497 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:18:07am

Breaking - Iran on Saturday to release one of U.S. hikers detained for more than a year, Iranian source says.

498 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:18:10am

Good news!! I still cannot my paycheck cashed!! Screw bills!!
/

499 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:18:39am

re: #475 Killgore Trout

Thanks- there is a huge mosque up the street here in Atlanta and a smaller Islamic center near my home. I have good friends who are muslim in Arizona that will answer any questions I have too.

I'm just feeling its about time to do the "menorah in every window" thing for my Muslim neighbors given the level of hate that supposed Christian™ Americans are showing these days.

500 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:19:04am

re: #492 cliffster

It was an accurate statement. It was also incredibly stupid of him to say. Sort of like, "Yes, honey, those pants DO make your butt look big."

Since when is factual analysis of an event or situations stupid?

501 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:19:31am

re: #493 webevintage

That looks yummy...but it is cheaper to open a can of Cambells.

Not really. Make a big pot and freeze the leftovers and it will be cheaper. With Cambell's you're paying for mostly salt and chemicals. Your money is better spent on real ingredients.

502 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:20:07am

re: #484 Rightwingconspirator

Good for you see for yourself
What you will find is bi lingual versions. Easy to find. IMHO-It's hard to read like the Old Testament. Big cultural gap with modern Americans to say the least.

I'm a bog King James Bible fan so I probably won't be too put off. Thanks

503 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:20:17am

re: #500 Walter L. Newton

Since when is factual analysis of an event or situations stupid?

Well you see honey I've got some charts and an experienced team of observes to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt out that, yes, that woman who lives across the street is sexier than you.....

504 webevintage  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:20:27am

re: #501 Killgore Trout

Not really. Make a big pot and freeze the leftovers and it will be cheaper. With Cambell's you're paying for mostly salt and chemicals. Your money is better spent on real ingredients.

I knew you were going to say that.....
;-)

505 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:20:44am

re: #501 Killgore Trout

Seriously. I have a broke-ass student vegetable stew that I used to eat during college. It was a long time ago, but I could feed myself for a week on ten dollars. Splurge for a half-pound of meat a week and you've got basically everything covered.

506 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:20:46am

re: #492 cliffster

It was an accurate statement. It was also incredibly stupid of him to say. Sort of like, "Yes, honey, those pants DO make your butt look big."

How are we to ever stop engaging in destructive behavior if we cannot be criticized for it? Rauf was not only correct in making this assertion, he was right to do it. It is our failure that we cannot hear such a message without attacking the messenger for it.

507 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:21:01am

re: #501 Killgore Trout

Not really. Make a big pot and freeze the leftovers and it will be cheaper. With Cambell's you're paying for mostly salt and chemicals. Your money is better spent on real ingredients.

Add heavy cream and call it bisque.

508 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:21:23am

re: #479 Obdicut

I didn't actually invoke my feelings. I used logic.

I understood your argument the first time. I explained why it doesn't work.

You apparently ignored what I wrote. Here it is again:

They have right to burn the books. They shouldn't, because it's such a foul message of contempt.

They have a right to build Park51. And they should, because it is in no way a message of hate or intolerance, but rather one of ecumenicism and freedom.

Your argument leads to ridiculousness quickly, because it treats all messages the same, and all emotional reactions as though they're all validly equal.

Again, your beliefs are based on your opinion of the underlying reasoning between the 2 actions. To put it another way it's based on your feelings.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, as I mentioned upthread, I
pick my battles. I just find it ironic that the same people who were saying we should ignore the feelings of one group are now arguing we should respect the feelings of another.

509 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:21:26am

I really need to get over looking at other right wind blogs in hope of seeing some moderation on the Islam issue. Here's one part of a thread from a ex Lizard. I'm hoping for a WTF ? in the comments.


"It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any terrorist attack launched against our people anywhere on the face of Planet Earth as an attack by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Kingdom."


l

510 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:22:05am

re: #480 Obdicut

Did you hear about these guys? They're dong some good for the Christian image:

[Link: www.rantrave.com...]

Faith. Check.

Hope. Check.

Charity. Check.

Yup they look Christian to me!

511 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:22:24am

re: #501 Killgore Trout

Not really. Make a big pot and freeze the leftovers and it will be cheaper. With Cambell's you're paying for mostly salt and chemicals. Your money is better spent on real ingredients.

But it uses canned tomatoes. You should try it with fresh green tomatoes. Might be edible!

512 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:23:27am

re: #511 wrenchwench

But it uses canned tomatoes. You should try it with fresh green tomatoes. Might be edible!

This time of year fresh tomatoes are pretty cheap. Even cheaper if you grow them yourself.

513 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:23:30am

re: #508 RogueOne

Again, your beliefs are based on your opinion of the underlying reasoning between the 2 actions. To put it another way it's based on your feelings.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, as I mentioned upthread, I
pick my battles. I just find it ironic that the same people who were saying we should ignore the feelings of one group are now arguing we should respect the feelings of another.

If you take into account weather or not the group getting its feelings hurt is getting them hurt on purpose, then you might be able to find some of that consistency you're searching for while supporting Park-51 and opposing Burn a Koran Day...

514 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:24:05am

re: #502 DaddyG

I'm a bog King James Bible fan so I probably won't be too put off. Thanks

Bury instead of burn?

515 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:24:32am

Hmm, I can't seem to link to anything...
Oy, what did I break in FF now?
:/

516 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:24:49am

re: #491 Obdicut

Don't forget the chemical and biological systems:

[Link: www.gulfwarvets.com...]

There were no chem/bio weapons sold. There were anthrax strains that were sold for "research" purposes. They also bought a variety of chem/bio dual-use items from germany and the soviet union.

517 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:25:14am

re: #506 Fozzie Bear

How are we to ever stop engaging in destructive behavior if we cannot be criticized for it? Rauf was not only correct in making this assertion, he was right to do it. It is our failure that we cannot hear such a message without attacking the messenger for it.

Well, it is what it is. The reality is, saying stuff like that is going to make you unpopular.

518 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:25:16am

Planned Quran Burning Has Whiff Of 2009 Bible Stunt

Some of us who have been following the story about a Florida preacher's plan to burn the Quran as part of an anti-Muslim protest on 9/11 can't help but be reminded of another stunt by a different clergyman which drew publicity last year.

Last year, Marc Grizzard, the pastor of a 14-member church in Canton, N.C. announced that on Halloween 2009 his flock would burn a pile of books they considered evil.

That included every version of the Bible that wasn't the King James Version since only the KJV was "God's preserved, inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God... for English-speaking people" Grizzard said.

He and his followers also planned to burn the works of "heretics," Mother Teresa and Billy Graham.

Just as has happened with the Florida church that promises to burn the Quran, Grizzard was warned by local officials that his church could be slapped with a huge fine, in his case as high as $25,000, because book burning would violate local ordinances.

So Grizzard and his people reconsidered; they had a non-book burning party, instead shredding the Bibles and other books that drew their ire if not their fire.

The few media who showed up had to take their word for it since it all happened inside the little church. Grizzard proclaimed the event a great success. And it was. A church with a membership of 14 got world-wide publicity.

Now it's the turn of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, a church with a purported membership of 100.

519 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:25:27am

Can burn a Koran, seer some tomatoes and make soup? For a complete thread?
/

520 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:26:26am

re: #519 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can burn a Koran, seer some tomatoes and make soup? For a complete thread?
/

Can we- Geez.

521 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:27:16am

re: #508 RogueOne

Again, your beliefs are based on your opinion of the underlying reasoning between the 2 actions. To put it another way it's based on your feelings.

"Opinion" does not equal "feelings".

522 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:27:32am

re: #512 Killgore Trout

This time of year fresh tomatoes are pretty cheap. Even cheaper if you grow them yourself.


While my home grown tomatos are always better tasting I hesitate to claim they are cheaper than canned. By the time I figure in the cost of manure, gas for the tiller, hours of labor, water and bug dust they are probably more expensive per pound than ground beef.

523 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:27:56am

re: #521 wrenchwench

"Opinion" does not equal "feelings".


I feel good about my opinions. /

524 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:28:01am

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Which is what I feel Rauf was trying to point out when he made the statement ""I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.""

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He was simply pointing out something that had a basis in historical facts... like you say "Real actions have real effects."

I agree 100%. If we support country A, against country B, and terrorists from country B attack us, there is a cause and effect, even if we are morally correct in our support.

525 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:28:11am

re: #516 RogueOne

There were no chem/bio weapons sold. There were anthrax strains that were sold for "research" purposes. They also bought a variety of chem/bio dual-use items from germany and the soviet union.

Does "research" include seeing what happens when you deploy biological and chemical agents on the Kurds?

I'm sorry, but "research" is a laughably fine, and meaningless, distinction. We gave them weapons. They used them to kill. We are accessories to mass murder in this case. Or, rather, Rumsfeld and Reagan are.

526 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:28:39am

re: #514 wrenchwench

Bury instead of burn?


You have a problem with creative spelling? /

527 deranged cat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:03am

re: #522 DaddyG

While my home grown tomatos are always better tasting I hesitate to claim they are cheaper than canned. By the time I figure in the cost of manure, gas for the tiller, hours of labor, water and bug dust they are probably more expensive per pound than ground beef.

how many tomatoes do you grow?? like..acres of them?

528 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:14am

re: #476 Fozzie Bear

People do not fly planes into buildings because of poverty.

Terror and radicalism have never had anything to do with economics or even politics, per se. Terror and radicalism have always been about power and ideologies that the terrorists and their supporters and apologists want to impose. It is true that the terrorists and radicals will use the terms to distract from that reality, terms like ‘economic disadvantages’ or whatever else they believe will sound plausible as part of their justification for their outrage, but that is all for show. If they really cared about the politically and economically oppressed and disadvantaged, they would build businesses and fund opportunities. They would not build bombs and fund terror.

If the terrorists, their supporters and apologists really wanted to better the lives of their own, they would use America and the west as a model for success. They would not seek to destroy those countries. They would not seek to destroy the freedoms that brought that success.

Further, eliminating poverty does not- and cannot- change a mindset. Economic status does not determine morality and codes of conduct. Only values, born of dignity and the recognition that all men and women are of equal value, determines morality and codes of conduct. The ideologies, values and morals that are the lifeblood of free nations are ideologies, values and morals that drive people to exceed their potential for good.

The ideologies, values and moral that drive people to blind hate and to destroy are very different. Terror, the support of terror and identification with those who engage in or apologize for terror is driven by the ideologies, moralities and values of evil, period.

The ideologies of Radical Islamism are very clear. The goal is to destroy, punish and subjugate anyone in their way. The real enemy are free peoples. Freedom is antithetical to terrorism because freedom usurps the power of the terrorist. With out the power to instill fear and punishment, the terrorist is nothing. The icon of freedom is the US, of course. Our freedoms, success and ever growing potential are what the terrorist must destroy. Prosperity is the terrorists fifth column. They cannot abide by a culture that is prosperous, because that culture seeks growth and progress. The terrorists and radicals cannot abide progress. That too, weakens their hold.

Terrorists and radicals couple noble words in a morality of hate .

529 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:15am

re: #508 RogueOne

Again, your beliefs are based on your opinion of the underlying reasoning between the 2 actions. To put it another way it's based on your feelings.

No, it's based on me intellectually analyzing the two actions. Not reacting emotionally to them.

Do you honestly think if I say, "Burning the korans is an attempt to send a message of hate" that's based on my emotions rather than logic?


I just find it ironic that the same people who were saying we should ignore the feelings of one group are now arguing we should respect the feelings of another.

You seem really, really, really bound and determined to avoid understanding my explanation.

Let me make another analogy:

A baptist group has a right to build a Baptist church in a town that had a funeral ceremony for a dead Muslim-American soldier protested by Fred Phelps, and, beyond having a right to do it, the building of that church should be supported, because even though some at that funeral may now have antipathy towards Baptists, the group of Baptists building the church has no relationship to Fred Phelps. Their emotional reaction is only emotional, not logical in the least.

The KKK has a right to march through a town where, historically, KKK members lynched and killed black people. Beyond having a right, they should not be in any way supported, and should be criticized and stood up to, because their message is one of hatred and intimidation.

I am not using my own emotions to respond to those situations-- I am using the fact that we humans do have emotions, and evaluating the logic in the situations.

You are insisting that all situations involving emotions are the same; your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

530 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:34am

re: #526 DaddyG

You have a problem with creative spelling? /

Hahaha!
I used the "creative spelling" line on my 12th grade English teacher.
Didn't work.
XD

531 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:57am

re: #522 DaddyG

While my home grown tomatos are always better tasting I hesitate to claim they are cheaper than canned. By the time I figure in the cost of manure, gas for the tiller, hours of labor, water and bug dust they are probably more expensive per pound than ground beef.

You do all that for your tomatoes? I just plant them and let Mother Nature do the rest. I had an unbelievable year for tomatoes and still picking them.

532 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:29:59am

re: #522 DaddyG

While my home grown tomatos are always better tasting I hesitate to claim they are cheaper than canned. By the time I figure in the cost of manure, gas for the tiller, hours of labor, water and bug dust they are probably more expensive per pound than ground beef.

Jesus, I have spent approximately 10 dollars on my garden, and I have more tomatoes than a small army could consume. I think you are trying too hard to grow what are essentially delicious weeds.

533 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:32:14am

re: #531 NJDhockeyfan

You do all that for your tomatoes? I just plant them and let Mother Nature do the rest. I had an unbelievable year for tomatoes and still picking them.

It was a bad year for tomatoes in the Pacific NW.

I bought two plants for about five itty bitty tomatoes, and I was one of the lucky ones.

534 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:32:19am

re: #531 NJDhockeyfan

You do all that for your tomatoes? I just plant them and let Mother Nature do the rest. I had an unbelievable year for tomatoes and still picking them.

I think it might be that the climate and soil here on the east coast is freaking perfect for tomatoes, because I keep hearing about people in other places having trouble with them, then I look outside at my neglected plants with 18,000 pounds of tomatoes on them, and I wonder what the hell is different between here and there.

535 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:32:47am

re: #534 Fozzie Bear

I think it might be that the climate and soil here on the east coast is freaking perfect for tomatoes, because I keep hearing about people in other places having trouble with them, then I look outside at my neglected plants with 18,000 pounds of tomatoes on them, and I wonder what the hell is different between here and there.

This is an unusually bad year for tomatoes up here.

536 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:32:56am

re: #431 kamala

I have no problem with their Constitutional right to build it. But I sure do have the right to protest their building of it.

Yes, you do indeed have the right to be as ignorant, bigoted, and hateful as you choose to be, and you're doing a great job of it.

537 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:34:16am

re: #534 Fozzie Bear

I think it might be that the climate and soil here on the east coast is freaking perfect for tomatoes, because I keep hearing about people in other places having trouble with them, then I look outside at my neglected plants with 18,000 pounds of tomatoes on them, and I wonder what the hell is different between here and there.

Perhaps.
You see, I don't have a green thumb.
Mine is more akin to the Grim Reaper's.
/

538 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:34:28am

re: #506 Fozzie Bear

How are we to ever stop engaging in destructive behavior if we cannot be criticized for it? Rauf was not only correct in making this assertion, he was right to do it. It is our failure that we cannot hear such a message without attacking the messenger for it.

On a unrelated issue the local police chief damn near lost his job when asked to comment on the effect of a new low income housing development in his area. He said it might well effect the crime rate. The fact that low income neighborhoods do in fact often have a higher crime rate is well known, but you'd better not say it aloud.

539 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:34:39am

Meanwhile ... what the hell is going on here?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

540 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:34:47am

re: #534 Fozzie Bear

I think it might be that the climate and soil here on the east coast is freaking perfect for tomatoes, because I keep hearing about people in other places having trouble with them, then I look outside at my neglected plants with 18,000 pounds of tomatoes on them, and I wonder what the hell is different between here and there.

My tomatoes & peppers had a great season so far. The rest of the garden got creamed by the hot, dry weather. I'm happy though...I'm about to have 2 batches of hot sauce made. I may do 2 more after that.

541 webevintage  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:35:57am

re: #532 Fozzie Bear

Jesus, I have spent approximately 10 dollars on my garden, and I have more tomatoes than a small army could consume. I think you are trying too hard to grow what are essentially delicious weeds.

Well aren't we all the snotty lucky tomato guy....
;-)
I wish I could just treat them like weeds here. The ground, she sucks and requires much work to produce.

(and I say that as someone who lost pretty much all my tomatoes this year to an extra warm early spring. I weep. The grape tomatoes did well.)

542 deranged cat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:36:21am

re: #540 NJDhockeyfan

mmmm! homemade hot sauce. haven't tried many, but it sounds very, very excellent.

543 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:36:27am

re: #518 NJDhockeyfan


That included every version of the Bible that wasn't the King James Version since only the KJV was "God's preserved, inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God... for English-speaking people" Grizzard said.

I like to ask people who believe the KJV is the only inspired Bible if they are referring to the 1611 or 1769 edition?

544 Political Atheist  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:36:39am

re: #502 DaddyG

I'm a bog King James Bible fan so I probably won't be too put off. Thanks

May I recommend the Scofield Bible? Scholars version footnoted with the various transliterations. Really worth while to own.

545 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:37:02am

re: #539 Charles

Meanwhile ... what the hell is going on here?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Looks like a Buddhist.

546 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:37:31am

re: #527 deranged cat

how many tomatoes do you grow?? like..acres of them?


6-7 plants per year with the rest of our vegitable garden. We like heirloom varieties like Brandywine and Cherokee Purple.

547 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:39:04am

re: #545 Killgore Trout

Looks like a Buddhist.

If so, they failed to grasp it.

548 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:40:39am

re: #545 Killgore Trout

Looks like a Buddhist.

Or just somebody with access to Google.

549 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:41:21am

re: #547 Varek Raith

If so, they failed to grasp it.

Yeah Robin Williams said it best

"Remember when they destroyed the two Buddhas? What would Buddha do? Nothing!"

550 laZardo  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:42:24am

re: #539 Charles

Meanwhile ... what the hell is going on here?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'm guessing Hindu?

551 laZardo  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:49:18am

re: #549 jamesfirecat

Yeah Robin Williams said it best

"Remember when they destroyed the two Buddhas? What would Buddha do? Nothing!"

As in video games, we all get three lives to live.

552 cliffster  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:49:42am

AP will not provide images from quran burning

Should the event happen on Saturday, the AP will not distribute images or audio that specifically show Qurans being burned, and will not provide detailed text descriptions of the burning. With the exception of these specific images and descriptions, we expect to cover the Gainesville event, in all media, placing the actions of this group of about 50 people in a clear and balanced context.

AP policy is not to provide coverage of events that are gratuitously manufactured to provoke and offend. In the past, AP has declined to provide images of cartoons mocking Islam and Jews. AP has often declined to provide images, audio or detailed descriptions of particularly bloody or grisly scenes, such as the sounds and moments of beheadings and shootings, displays of severed heads on pikes and images of hostages who are displayed by hostage-holders in an effort to intimidate their adversaries and advance their cause. Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.

553 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:51:08am
554 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:52:12am

re: #531 NJDhockeyfan

You do all that for your tomatoes? I just plant them and let Mother Nature do the rest. I had an unbelievable year for tomatoes and still picking them.

Here in Georgia the soil is good for making bricks. Manure and humis are almost required. I miss Illinois dirt!

555 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:53:33am

I used to like Cliff May. FDD was a good thing for a while. Sad how people who once rejected the notion of preventing "religious provocation" in a pluralistic society now invoke "religious provocation" regarding mosque building and then rationalize book burning too.

OT - Tax the witch!

556 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:53:33am

re: #554 DaddyG

Here in Georgia the soil is good for making bricks. Manure and humis are almost required. I miss Illinois dirt!

Let me guess....Georgia red clay!

557 DaddyG  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:54:40am

re: #556 NJDhockeyfan

Let me guess...Georgia red clay!

Yup! There are things that like to grow in it: Like Kudzu.

558 jaunte  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:54:59am

re: #552 cliffster
Looks like the word is out anyway.

Jones is not the only one gaining notoriety from the controversy. The man who orchestrated the anti-America rally in the Afghan capital is a young Muslim cleric who is running for a seat in parliament: Maulawi Habibullah Hassam. Competing in a packed field of 600-plus candidates, Hassam is hoping that his hostile posture toward infidels in general, and the U.S. in particular, will raise his profile high enough to propel him into office. "Those were all my supporters, and they were just a few from Kabul," boasts Hassam, referring to the demonstrators. "If I want them to, people from all over Afghanistan will step forward for more protests against America."
ttp[Link: www.time.com...]
559 Gus  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:55:24am

Park 51 has revealed two kinds of bigotry: religious and racial. The latter being well known with regards to people of Arab descent. Another thing on display is religious chauvinism where one group tries to place their own particular religion on a higher moral or social plane then those of others. More specifically in the USA we are seeing this form of religious chauvinism of Christianity over Islam by many opponents of Park 51.

560 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:55:47am

The hysteria is getting out of control.....

Interpol Issues Global Terror Alert If Koran Burning Happens

561 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:56:40am

re: #553 Killgore Trout

Ugh.

Not sure how I feel about this. I get their point, but the pictures and video will get out regardless.
I would not mind the fire department being on scene after learning of a advertised violation of the outside burning law. The image of American fire fighters hosing down the pastor's Bic would be refreshing.

562 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:56:41am

re: #557 DaddyG

Yup! There are things that like to grow in it: Like Kudzu.

And pecan trees, pine trees, fire ant hills...

563 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:57:51am

re: #539 Charles

Meanwhile ... what the hell is going on here?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Almost reads like an Aisha post except less accessible. So it is either a nut or a nut poseur.

564 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:58:12am

re: #560 Killgore Trout

The hysteria is getting out of control...

Interpol Issues Global Terror Alert If Koran Burning Happens

Some will die needlessly because of this idiot, count on it.

565 researchok  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:58:20am

re: #560 Killgore Trout

The hysteria is getting out of control...

Interpol Issues Global Terror Alert If Koran Burning Happens

When does protest become blackmail?

566 Gus  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:58:54am

re: #561 avanti

Not sure how I feel about this. I get their point, but the pictures and video will get out regardless.
I would not mind the fire department being on scene after learning of a advertised violation of the outside burning law. The image of American fire fighters hosing down the pastor's Bic would be refreshing.

I've got a better idea:

567 Political Atheist  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:01:06am

re: #564 avanti

I'm getting a hunch he will abort the burn with some self serving explanation. I would not bet more than lunch money though.

568 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:01:22am

re: #521 wrenchwench

"Opinion" does not equal "feelings".

I think it does. When deciding if some issue is justified or not, you're basing it on feelings. The argument I keep getting back from my question can easily be summarized as: "I feel the hate inherent in the koran burning is unjustified therefore they shouldn't exercise their 1st amendment rights".

It's a tough question. Exactly where do we draw the line in asking people to not exercise their rights. I don't have the answer but I find it amusing that people don't even see their own contradictions when making their arguments.

569 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:01:47am

re: #554 DaddyG

Here in Georgia the soil is good for making bricks. Manure and humis are almost required. I miss Illinois dirt!

We have plenty of clay in our soil. It takes a couple of years, but working it with lots of compost, peat and a bit of sand will eventually make it worthy. I can slide a pitchfork in my dirt up past the tines by gently pushing it in. It's a marvelous thing.

570 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:01:58am

re: #560 Killgore Trout

The hysteria is getting out of control...

Interpol Issues Global Terror Alert If Koran Burning Happens

FWIW, a friend in the Iranian dissident movement is certain that the reason that Ashtiani's stoning sentence has been suspended is so that she can be stoned after the Quuran burning as a way to show domestic firmness while trying to displace international outrage toward the US.

571 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:04:15am

re: #570 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, a friend in the Iranian dissident movement is certain that the reason that Ashtiani's stoning sentence has been suspended is so that she can be stoned after the Quuran burning as a way to show domestic firmness while trying to displace international outrage toward the US.

What a bunch of sick deranged fuckwads running Iran.

572 laZardo  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:05:02am

re: #571 NJDhockeyfan

What a bunch of sick deranged fuckwads running Iran.

Putting it very mildly.

573 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:05:27am

re: #566 Gus 802

I've got a better idea:


[Video]

That would be a thing of beauty. Get a group of religious leaders to lease the plane and provide a public service in enforcing the outside burning law, or at least pray for a rain storm.

574 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:06:01am

re: #570 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, a friend in the Iranian dissident movement is certain that the reason that Ashtiani's stoning sentence has been suspended is so that she can be stoned after the Quuran burning as a way to show domestic firmness while trying to displace international outrage toward the US.

So a woman is going to die for this? Splendid.

575 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:06:37am

re: #525 Fozzie Bear

Does "research" include seeing what happens when you deploy biological and chemical agents on the Kurds?

I'm sorry, but "research" is a laughably fine, and meaningless, distinction. We gave them weapons. They used them to kill. We are accessories to mass murder in this case. Or, rather, Rumsfeld and Reagan are.

Can you prove the strains used to gas the kurds came from a US university? No, not when they bought other strains from the soviets, the french and the germans.

If your argument is we shouldn't have had anything to do with Saddam then we're in agreement. I think it's another example of the failure of the "realist" foreign policy advocates. But the truth of the situation is the US supplied Saddam with mass amounts of intel but no weapons. I was there during the first gulf war and I know exactly the weapons systems he had at his disposal because it was my job. You don't have to stretch the truth in order to make your argument.

576 avanti  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:07:16am

re: #570 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, a friend in the Iranian dissident movement is certain that the reason that Ashtiani's stoning sentence has been suspended is so that she can be stoned after the Quuran burning as a way to show domestic firmness while trying to displace international outrage toward the US.

A sick way to score political points with fundies in Iran and ratchet up the hate.

577 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:08:13am

re: #568 RogueOne

I think it does. When deciding if some issue is justified or not, you're basing it on feelings. The argument I keep getting back from my question can easily be summarized as: "I feel the hate inherent in the koran burning is unjustified therefore they shouldn't exercise their 1st amendment rights".

It can be if you have a really weak argument that you can't make without misrepresenting what others say.

Human emotions exist. They're real. The message of intimidation and hate inherent in burning the Korans, or the KKK marching, or a swastika on a Jewish synagogue, are real.

578 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:17:31am

re: #529 Obdicut

No, it's based on me intellectually analyzing the two actions. Not reacting emotionally to them.

Do you honestly think if I say, "Burning the korans is an attempt to send a message of hate" that's based on my emotions rather than logic?

You seem really, really, really bound and determined to avoid understanding my explanation.

Let me make another analogy:

A baptist group has a right to build a Baptist church in a town that had a funeral ceremony for a dead Muslim-American soldier protested by Fred Phelps, and, beyond having a right to do it, the building of that church should be supported, because even though some at that funeral may now have antipathy towards Baptists, the group of Baptists building the church has no relationship to Fred Phelps. Their emotional reaction is only emotional, not logical in the least.

The KKK has a right to march through a town where, historically, KKK members lynched and killed black people. Beyond having a right, they should not be in any way supported, and should be criticized and stood up to, because their message is one of hatred and intimidation.

I am not using my own emotions to respond to those situations-- I am using the fact that we humans do have emotions, and evaluating the logic in the situations.

You are insisting that all situations involving emotions are the same; your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Your opinions are based on your feelings. You want to pick and choose what rights people should express based on your underlying opinion (feeling) of their justification when, if you were being purely logical, that shouldn't be part of the equation. I get that, you don't seem to even comprehend that you're putting your feelings into the mix. I'm not even arguing that is a bad thing, my initial question was (and still is) where do we draw the line? You argue that those people with a message of what you consider hateful should be asked not to express their 1st amendment right. That's perfectly fair but it isn't pure logic since your opinion of what is considered hateful is an emotional conclusion. "Hate", as an emotion,is purely objective, you cannot quantify it logically no matter how hard you try.


Your refusal to admit to yourself your own bias is troubling. I've openly admitted my bias upthread, that's why I said it's a tough call, why is it you refuse to admit that your feelings play even the smallest role in your decision making process?

579 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:31:42am

re: #578 RogueOne

Why on earth do you think my opinions are only based on my feelings, and not the logic of my argument?

Can you actually address the argument, please, instead of just repeating your assertion over and over?


Your refusal to admit to yourself your own bias is troubling. I've openly admitted my bias upthread, that's why I said it's a tough call, why is it you refuse to admit that your feelings play even the smallest role in your decision making process?

What decision?

This was my question-- what is the 'call' you have to make? What is the decision?

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:35:03am

re: #539 Charles

God that guy again

He really pissed me off with his yuk yuk weenie roast let's burn holy books thing and everyone went NOOO UNCALLED FOR HE'S OUR FRIEND

Yeah :( Not impressed

581 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:35:19am

re: #509 avanti

I really need to get over looking at other right wind blogs in hope of seeing some moderation on the Islam issue. Here's one part of a thread from a ex Lizard. I'm hoping for a WTF ? in the comments.

"It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any terrorist attack launched against our people anywhere on the face of Planet Earth as an attack by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Kingdom."

If these dimbulbs really wanted to stick it to the Saudi royal family and clerics, they'd get a clue about AGW and support the development of alternatives to oil. They'd also quit watching the Kingdom's personal propaganda network.

582 TedStriker  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 10:44:11am

re: #431 kamala

I have no problem with their Constitutional right to build it. But I sure do have the right to protest their building of it.

And we have the right to assume ulterior motives for your position.

583 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:12:42pm

re: #531 NJDhockeyfan

You do all that for your tomatoes? I just plant them and let Mother Nature do the rest. I had an unbelievable year for tomatoes and still picking them.

I think it might be that the climate and soil here on the east coast is freaking perfect for tomatoes, because I keep hearing about people in other places having trouble with them, then I look outside at my neglected plants with 18,000 pounds of tomatoes on them, and I wonder what the hell is different between here and there.re: #575 RogueOne

Can you prove the strains used to gas the kurds came from a US university? No, not when they bought other strains from the soviets, the french and the germans.

If your argument is we shouldn't have had anything to do with Saddam then we're in agreement. I think it's another example of the failure of the "realist" foreign policy advocates. But the truth of the situation is the US supplied Saddam with mass amounts of intel but no weapons. I was there during the first gulf war and I know exactly the weapons systems he had at his disposal because it was my job. You don't have to stretch the truth in order to make your argument.

Unless you are prepared to say that the Senate deliberately produced a false report saying that the US provided Iraq with chemical and biological agents, you are incorrect.

[Link: www.gulfwarvets.com...]

584 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:13:29pm

re: #583 Fozzie Bear

I have no idea how i quoted my own post about tomatoes there. Please ignore that part, the post I intended to make starts below the bit about tomatoes.

585 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:24:29pm

re: #307 Cannadian Club Akbar

If this isn't awesome, there is no awesome.
[Link: www.myfoxboston.com...]

Awesome. This is more reasonable than my idea of an inexpensive, good-cookin' place to be called "NoKids"--"Where food and civility are more important than fertility."

586 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:28:42pm

re: #336 RogueOne

Uh-oh, Anyone have Tom Brady in their fantasy league?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Tom Brady. Didn't he used to be somebody important? Won some titles a LONG time ago?

587 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:41:15pm

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

I hope to hell those two groups don't start interbreeding.

Why? If they interbreed, they won't be breeding with potentially sentient human beings and should therefore be easier to isolate.

588 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Sep 9, 2010 5:56:39pm

Tomatoes are highly intelligent. They know who wants them and who doesn't, and in an act of self-preservation they grow only where not wanted.

I mean, if you knew you were there just to be eaten, would you bother to grow big, round, and juicy?
//re: #502 DaddyG

I'm a bog King James Bible fan so I probably won't be too put off. Thanks

bog King James Bible fan? I didn't know you're Irish!

re: #509 avanti

I really need to get over looking at other right wind blogs in hope of seeing some moderation on the Islam issue. Here's one part of a thread from a ex Lizard. I'm hoping for a WTF ? in the comments.

"It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any terrorist attack launched against our people anywhere on the face of Planet Earth as an attack by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Kingdom."

l

You got it. WTF?


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