Calling him is a bad idea. It would just embolden him more, I think.

I hope they don't do it. Let their public statements and travel warnings speak for themselves.

I agree 100%. Very bad idea.

they paid him a call, according to TPM, via the FBI.

Appeasing this psychotic freak would set a terrible precedent.

It also appeases the violent Islamists. The hysteria over this incident has been blown way out of proportion.
The Quran burning deserves maybe some local media attention or a passing mention on a national show. Getting the President involved is just ridiculous.

Would Jones even talk to a Muslim President?
/

re: #4 Killgore Trout

It also appeases the violent Islamists.

Good point; I hadn't thought of that.

Obama's administration seems to have issues with knowing when to step in, and when to stay above the fray. First that police officer thing, then his changing positions on the mosque. . .

Why legitimize this group by administration acknowledgement (even if that acknowledgement comes in the form of condemnation) of their activities?

I highly doubt that Pastor Jones considers Obama to be the legitimate president. Just a hunch.

re: #7 Yashmak

First that police officer thing, then his changing positions on the mosque. . .

*blinks* When did he change his position on the mosque?

This is a job for Rahm. But in person. Heh.
Too bad the media will not just shun the whole thing, like API is said to be doing.

re: #9 CuriousLurker

*blinks* When did he change his position on the mosque?

He made his initial statement, then came out the next day and tempered it with additional remarks.

nonononono

Unless it is the FBI stopping by...but even then that gives this tiny church who has like 40 parishioners way, way too much attention.

re: #6 CuriousLurker

Good point; I hadn't thought of that.

This thing is playing out in the worst way possible. The disproportional amount of attention devoted to this indecent creates a direct challenge to Muslim extremists to respond with violence. The expectation and panic over the possible violent response will make the extremists look weak if they can't live up to expectations.

O/T
Tech issues today-Rebooted yet even this little thread has my Firefox and or my Seamonkey running poorly. Tons of extra traffic today maybe?

re: #11 Yashmak

He made his initial statement, then came out the next day and tempered it with additional remarks.

You mean when he said he wasn't going to comment on the wisdom of building it there? How is that changing his opinion on a freedom of religion?

"insert appeasement here!"
Image: 610x.jpg

Can barely keep up with the threads today O.O

So I guess I'm wrong, some hick bigot pile of shit can apparently leverage worldwide attention

Unfortuantely, there's a lot of hick bigot piles of shit in America who would love to be the guy that starts a war

Answered my own question from the last thread. This idiots other website was also hosted by Rackspace. Since I still can't connect to it, I suspect they shut it down as well.

Domain: islamisofthedevil.com visit site
Website IP: 65.61.167.246 -
Last_update: 2010-08-25 12:13:27
Location: United States
Region: TX
City: San Antonio
Postal code: 78229
ISP location: Rackspace.com
Server: Apache/2.2
Average Load Time: 0.21825504303 ms

re: #13 Killgore Trout

It's a mess, that's for sure.

re: #10 Rightwingconspirator

This is a job for Rahm. But in person. Heh.
Too bad the media will not just shun the whole thing, like API is said to be doing.

The media loves this, this is gold to the media

I think he's kind of backing up Petraeus here. I agree it's a bad idea.

But if Petraeus says that this will endanger troops lives, then it does, from one perspective, make sense to try to stop it.

But I don't think it's appropriate, or necessary.

re: #18 WindUpBird

So I guess I'm wrong, some hick bigot pile of shit can apparently leverage worldwide attention

Palin.

re: #21 WindUpBird

And IMO, become in part culpable for the whole thing.

The truth is, opposition to the Quran burning is getting even more press than the event itself.

That ought not be lost on those who rightfully are upset at Jones and his pissant church.

Sadly though, it will. Those intent on carrying violence will do just that, choosing to see only the actions of a very few versus the sentiment of the vast majority of Americans.

The ugly act of Quran burning will not create any radicals. It will only bring out those who already subscribe to violence as a form of political expression.

After the Paris riots, publishing of the infamous Mohammad cartoons and the Bhutto assassination, entire populations went on a wild rampage. Hordes of out of control people caused massive destruction to private and public property.

The destruction of property is not a display of anger, disagreement, mourning or courage. It is an unequivocal display of political, moral and social immaturity. It is also a public acknowledgment of the complete lack of a mature and healthy value system.

That does in any way justify the Quran burning event. As ugly and as repulsive as that may be and notwithstanding the proper condemnations, context is in order.

NPR's Greg Allen reports that the would-be Quran-burning preacher in Gainesville, Fla., is offering a quid pro quo, according to the Islamic cleric who met with the preacher Wednesday and was to meet with him again on Thursday.

Terry Jones the preacher says he'll reconsider the Quran burning if plans are ditched to build an Islamic Center near Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan

[Link: www.npr.org...]

bullshit

re: #4 Killgore Trout

It also appeases the violent Islamists. The hysteria over this incident has been blown way out of proportion.
The Quran burning deserves maybe some local media attention or a passing mention on a national show. Getting the President involved is just ridiculous.

The Quran Summit?

re: #16 Killgore Trout

"insert appeasement here!"
Image: 610x.jpg

One thousand words.

re: #26 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.npr.org...]

bullshit

So if this Terry Jones guy is a literal threat to national security because of this, what then

Interesting stuff

re: #25 researchok

The ugly act of Quran burning will not create any radicals. It will only bring out those who already subscribe to violence as a form of political expression.

The act in and of itself won't create radicals: it will create a propaganda tool for the recruiters to manipulate their recruits. It will be very powerful for them. This is what enables the cycle to continue, helps create future terrorists in a few years time or push others on the brink in a much shorter time frame.

It will also bring out those who already subscribe to violence as a form of political expression, but they are already lost.

It's the first group that matters most.

re: #4 Killgore Trout

It also appeases the violent Islamists. The hysteria over this incident has been blown way out of proportion.
The Quran burning deserves maybe some local media attention or a passing mention on a national show. Getting the President involved is just ridiculous.

Welcome to our evil media

People love to hate on the government, the media is worse, less accountable, less responsible and more willing to just outright destroy peoples' lives for a buck

Get the idiot provocateur on illegal burning, fire hazard, relasing CO2, littering, < insert here additional charges >! In dry CA it would work. Don't know about wet Florida.

The most important man in the universe offers a deal...
Preacher Offers Deal: May Spare Qurans If No NY Islamic Center

re: #16 Killgore Trout

"insert appeasement here!"
Image: 610x.jpg

Reminds me of this: Image: 0229634555085.jpg

Ugh.

Obama, please, just ignore this ignorant fuck like the media should have done from the beginning.

re: #11 Yashmak

He made his initial statement, then came out the next day and tempered it with additional remarks.

Wrong, he was asked about "the wisdom" and refused to get drawn into that greasy, bullshit trap of a discussion.

If calling him would prevent the burning, and therefor presumably violence, why is that a bad idea?

re: #23 webevintage

Palin.

well, Palin was a VP candidate, I'm talking about retard nobodies in the south with a congregation smaller than my waist size who can pretty much cause worldwide discord and put Americans in danger with stunts

Oh America

re: #37 Radicchio ad Absurdum

If calling him would prevent the burning, and therefor presumably violence, why is that a bad idea?

because it'll create ten thousand more toothless rubes who'll do the same thing, burn a stack of korans to get a call from the president

seriously, think this through

This is an attention whore who found a way to get a lot of attention.

I can understand wanting to give him some "positive attention" rather than letting him get "negative attention". But the same problem with indulging terrorists and thugs comes into play - when you reward the behavior it does not go away. It comes back again and again.

If the moron goes through with it. the next time he does it it won't get as much attention. Then he has a choice - escalate or go away. i can't think of an escalation that doesn't involve an unlawful action, but I am not a creative zealot.

re: #30 BigPapa

The act in and of itself won't create radicals: it will create a propaganda tool for the recruiters to manipulate their recruits. It will be very powerful for them. This is what enables the cycle to continue, helps create future terrorists in a few years time or push others on the brink in a much shorter time frame.

It will also bring out those who already subscribe to violence as a form of political expression, but they are already lost.

It's the first group that matters most.

The recruits you mention have already been radicalized.

Their commitment to violence is already part of their make up.

The die has been cast.

Anyone else find it ironic that a man was nearly killed a few weeks ago for being Muslim but the possibility of legally burning a book is a matter of international panic?

Meanwhile, not to be outdone, the shits from the Westboro Baptist Church are going after the "original enemy" - Jews:

The group held several signs, with such slogans as, “Your rabbi is a whore” and “Mourn for your sins.” They sang parodies of famous songs, including “Hey Jew,” based off the Beatles’ “Hey Jude,” and a remake of “God Bless America” called “God Hates America.”

See Thanos's LGF Page here.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Anyone else find it ironic that a man was nearly killed a few weeks ago for being Muslim but the possibility of legally burning a book is a matter of international panic?

Better images.
/

BTW - you can bet that this guy's "ministry" is getting all sorts of donations as a result of the publicity which he no doubt likes.

re: #24 Rightwingconspirator

And IMO, become in part culpable for the whole thing.

They've always been culpable, that's just fact

re: #39 WindUpBird

because it'll create ten thousand more toothless rubes who'll do the same thing, burn a stack of korans to get a call from the president

seriously, think this through

Ok. Then he goes through with it and the result is what? What is your solution?

re: #45 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - you can bet that this guy's "ministry" is getting all sorts of donations as a result of the publicity which he no doubt likes.

Andy Warhol is loving this, wherever he is

my foot would like to make contact with his ass

re: #47 Radicchio ad Absurdum

Ok. Then he goes through with it and the result is what? What is your solution?

you don't appease these scum, that much is dead certain

You actually don't want to know what my solution is, hah

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Anyone else find it ironic that a man was nearly killed a few weeks ago for being Muslim but the possibility of legally burning a book is a matter of international panic?

Most people don't care too much about other people.

The danger is validating and giving press to Jones: he has the power to get the Pres to pay attention to him. The Pres is reacting to him.

If there is a way to get out in front of this but not give Jones what he wants (coverage = power), then that's the play.

I think the Pres comments on the issue but in an informal context like his off the cuff this AM. This is where guys like Rauf come in... and some Christian leaders with him.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Anyone else find it ironic that a man was nearly killed a few weeks ago for being Muslim but the possibility of legally burning a book is a matter of international panic?

He would not have much power if he were ignored.

Wasn't there some moron here years back who posted a video of him shooting a quuran with an automatic weapon?

re: #52 BigPapa

The danger is validating and giving press to Jones: he has the power to get the Pres to pay attention to him. The Pres is reacting to him.

If there is a way to get out in front of this but not give Jones what he wants (coverage = power), then that's the play.

I think the Pres comments on the issue but in an informal context like his off the cuff this AM. This is where guys like Rauf come in... and some Christian leaders with him.

the media makes money off this, there's no way they won't cover this

war sells, fury sells, bigotry sells, fear sells, destruction sells, death sells

re: #47 Radicchio ad Absurdum

Ok. Then he goes through with it and the result is what? What is your solution?

Deploy the local police and as soon as they light a match, arrest them for not having a burning permit.

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

re: #52 BigPapa

The danger is validating and giving press to Jones: he has the power to get the Pres to pay attention to him. The Pres is reacting to him.

If there is a way to get out in front of this but not give Jones what he wants (coverage = power), then that's the play.

I think the Pres comments on the issue but in an informal context like his off the cuff this AM. This is where guys like Rauf come in... and some Christian leaders with him.

Jones is enjoying his 15 minutes.

Christ couldn't talk him down at this point.

Ironically, he is beginning to see himself as a martyr to the faith.

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Deploy the local police and as soon as they light a match, arrest them for not having a burning permit.

can one be arrested for causing a riot, if that riot is remote and not local? Probably not

Towercam with rapidly moving clouds.

re: #50 WindUpBird

you don't appease these scum, that much is dead certain

You actually don't want to know what my solution is, hah

Actually I do, because either you appease this scum or the scum that are threatening violence. Its a lose lose, so I am wondering which is the least worst option.

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

oh of course

Muslims are the low hanging fruit, but they'll just go right up the tree

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

Talmuds are going to be burned too.

re: #41 researchok

The recruits you mention have already been radicalized.

Their commitment to violence is already part of their make up.

The die has been cast.

The 'recruits' don't radicalize and flip in one day, on one issue, at one moment in time. It's a process that may take months or even years. This new item will be a major propaganda coup for those recruiters who have been hammering 'the USA hates Islam' on those skulls full of mush.

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

Two truths-

1. The list is never ending

2. There is no such thing as a bigot with only one target.

re: #54 WindUpBird

the media makes money off this, there's no way they won't cover this

war sells, fury sells, bigotry sells, fear sells, destruction sells, death sells

Peace sells, but who's buying?

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Deploy the local police and as soon as they light a match, arrest them for not having a burning permit.

Have three fire trucks roll up and hose down the whole fucking crowd. They'll be using their bibles as umbrellas, which will probably piss off other Xians.

Hss Islamaphobia increased or become more vocal since Obama became president?

re: #58 WindUpBird

can one be arrested for causing a riot, if that riot is remote and not local? Probably not

incitement perhaps?

re: #60 Radicchio ad Absurdum

Actually I do, because either you appease this scum or the scum that are threatening violence. Its a lose lose, so I am wondering which is the least worst option.

You aren't addressing my point

What happens when a hundred more crazy preachers do the same thing?

There's ALREADY a guy in Tennessee also planning on burning Korans

You appease this guy, you give him what he wants, then every klansman and every so-con lunatic will want a payday

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

I read somewhere that he is also planning on torching a Talmud. CNN I think reported it.

re: #63 BigPapa

The 'recruits' don't radicalize and flip in one day, on one issue, at one moment in time. It's a process that may take months or even years. This new item will be a major propaganda coup for those recruiters who have been hammering 'the USA hates Islam' on those skulls full of mush.

I'm not disagreeing at all. I'm just saying the Quran burning will not be a tipping point.

Datline Vatican —

Benedict burns copy of Bible & announces that it is only paper & nothing to get excited about & asks that other religions realize the same thing about copies of their books.

/ I wish.

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Deploy the local police and as soon as they light a match, arrest them for not having a burning permit.

Works for me

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

DAAAVE

re: #66 darthstar

They'll be using their bibles as umbrellas, which will probably piss off other Xians.

The Chinese are wrapped up in this to?

/

re: #72 Ojoe

Datline Vatican —

Benedict burns copy of Bible & announces that it is only paper & nothing to get excited about & asks that other religions realize the same thing about copies of their books.

/ I wish.

God why are you still here, why are you still repeating your foolish garbage here

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Hss Islamaphobia increased or become more vocal since Obama became president?

I've seen the meme of "there is no moderate Islam" a whole lot more since the election.

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Deploy the local police and as soon as they light a match, arrest them for not having a burning permit.

What if they use a Weber?

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Hss Islamaphobia increased or become more vocal since Obama became president?

It's been nurtured and encouraged by the far right because it supports the "anger" (albeit irrational) over having a black president.

re: #56 Cato the Elder

Let no one doubt that this bastard would do the same thing with Talmuds if the flavor of the day were anti-Semitism. Which it would be, if he and his ilk got their way with Muslims.

Then the Mormons, then the Catholic papists, and then the Episcopalians and all of the other errant blasphemers. The rigid defenders of the truth end up excluding all who are not armed and manning the perimeter.

re: #76 WindUpBird

Because it is not foolish. This thing is going to explode & what I am proposing would at least mitigate it somewhat.

re: #81 Ojoe

Because it is not foolish. This thing is going to explode & what I am proposing would at least mitigate it somewhat.

No, it actually won't, you have no idea what you're talking about

Seriously, are you even employed, do you interact with people in real life? How completely clueless about human behavior are you?

re: #69 WindUpBird

You aren't addressing my point

What happens when a hundred more crazy preachers do the same thing?

There's ALREADY a guy in Tennessee also planning on burning Korans

You appease this guy, you give him what he wants, then every klansman and every so-con lunatic will want a payday

So what is worse? Phone calls or dead civilians/soldiers? I don't have the answer. Who do you appease?

I just heard Ed Schultz on the radio asking why the White House hasn't contacted this guy. I almost ran off the road thinking what a stupid idea that was. To hear that they might actually do it is dumbfounding. While he's in the process of trying to appease the crazies, why doesn't Obama just "produce his birth certificate"?

He made his opinion known this morning, which I thought was enough if not above and beyond what he had to do,

No squabbling. Don't make me start burning books.

re: #66 darthstar

Have three fire trucks roll up and hose down the whole fucking crowd. They'll be using their bibles as umbrellas, which will probably piss off other Xians.

I posted the weather forecast on another thread.

Rain.

Bolts of lightning.

Got Irony?

re: #69 WindUpBird

You aren't addressing my point

What happens when a hundred more crazy preachers do the same thing?

There's ALREADY a guy in Tennessee also planning on burning Korans

You appease this guy, you give him what he wants, then every klansman and every so-con lunatic will want a payday

I think preventing him from doing it will cause a hundred more preachers to do it.

I think letting him do it will not.

I may be wrong. I'm not an expert in stopping idiots from being idiots.

I mean the obsessive and repetitious join the whig party crap, it's like something an autistic guy would do, constant repetition of stuff nobody cares about, constant inability to engage or relate to other human beings as people

I've got a copy of the Overton Window here and I'm not afraid to torch it!

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Just don't threaten any algebra books, then we've got real trouble.

re: #81 Ojoe

You have a message.

re: #81 Ojoe

Because it is not foolish. This thing is going to explode & what I am proposing would at least mitigate it somewhat.

Better idea: the Vatican publicly apologizes for past book-burnings (and the "heretics" it burned along with them) and says that this is never a good idea.

Not that what a Catholic says would carry any weight with these "Christians".

re: #82 WindUpBird

Yes yes, not at all clueless.

re: #88 WindUpBird

Hey now. No need to bring autistic people into the conversation, especially not as a negative comparison.

re: #83 Radicchio ad Absurdum

So what is worse? Phone calls or dead civilians/soldiers? I don't have the answer. Who do you appease?

You're still ignoring what I'm saying

APPEASING HIM MEANS MORE DEAD PEOPLE AND MORE RUBES BURNING KORANS

it multiples the problem.

Do you understand this?

Jesus christ, I'm really tired of repeating myself

re: #91 wrenchwench

You have a message.

yeah, no fucking shit

re: #71 researchok

I'm not disagreeing at all. I'm just saying the Quran burning will not be a tipping point.

I'm disagreeing with you on one key point, we are talking about a few different things at once.

This Quran burning will not be a tipping point for those already committed to violence, terror, anti-Westernism, etc. It will merely fire them back up.

It will be a tipping point for the next wave of recruits who are on the verge of becoming those committed to violence. Those that are living in rural religious schools focusing on more fundamental teachings, the true terror nurseries, those old boys/young men being indoctrinated into that cult of hate. Since it will be recorded in history, it will be able to be used for many years.

re: #94 Obdicut

Hey now. No need to bring autistic people into the conversation, especially not as a negative comparison.

Yeah, you're right, that was out of line, i've been in health care too long, I use it as shorthand to describe bizarre repetitive behavior

re: #93 Ojoe

Yes yes, not at all clueless.

Tell us more about how muslims riot.

re: #95 WindUpBird

I'm in favor of 'appeasing' him by letting him have his little book-burning unmolested except for whatever legal stuff the fire department actually, legitimately has for stopping him. I doubt they can actually engage in prior restraint, they can probably just arrest/fine him afterwards.

I think if he's stopped beforehand, more preachers will try to do it. There is no reasonable way that burning a Koran can be seen as an incitement to riot, so I would not approve of stopping it on those grounds.

re: #72 Ojoe

Datline Vatican —

Benedict burns copy of Bible & announces that it is only paper & nothing to get excited about & asks that other religions realize the same thing about copies of their books.

/ I wish.

It's not 'just paper' any more than this blog is not just a bunch of 1's and 0's: you are burning words, phrases, ideas, philosophies. It's a powerful statement to burn a book but it's also careless and clumsy. But the thing is, it's just the power that counts. Jones must be freaking high as a kite on egodrenaline right now.

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Better idea: the Vatican publicly apologizes for past book-burnings (and the "heretics" it burned along with them) and says that this is never a good idea.

Not that what a Catholic says would carry any weight with these "Christians".

True Christians pay no heed to the Adult Escort of Persian Descent.
/

re: #95 WindUpBird

You're still ignoring what I'm saying

APPEASING HIM MEANS MORE DEAD PEOPLE AND MORE RUBES BURNING KORANS

it multiples the problem.

Do you understand this?

Jesus christ, I'm really tired of repeating myself

No, actually that is the first time you have said that. You said that klansman and rubes, etc would pull the same stunt.

So, do the radicals who are threatening violence come into this calculation at all, or do they get some kind of pass?

re: #87 Obdicut

I think preventing him from doing it will cause a hundred more preachers to do it.

I think letting him do it will not.

I may be wrong. I'm not an expert in stopping idiots from being idiots.

preventing him: yes, more preachers will want to do it.
letting him: YES. MORE PEOPLE WILL DEFINITELY WANT TO DO IT.

people don't go "well that was nice, putting up racist signs of president obama and offensive pictures of dead babies/bodies/more offensive things. i think our point has been proven!"

as long as there are people who push the crazy (republican congressman, crazy right wing blogs, fox news), they'll just keep pushing it and pushing it. if you don't put a fight, it'll just embolden them more.

re: #100 Obdicut

I'm in favor of 'appeasing' him by letting him have his little book-burning unmolested except for whatever legal stuff the fire department actually, legitimately has for stopping him. I doubt they can actually engage in prior restraint, they can probably just arrest/fine him afterwards.

I think if he's stopped beforehand, more preachers will try to do it. There is no reasonable way that burning a Koran can be seen as an incitement to riot, so I would not approve of stopping it on those grounds.

Yeah I think that's the way to do it, we don't reward him by giving him a call from the president or making him into a martyr

re: #22 Obdicut

I think he's kind of backing up Petraeus here. I agree it's a bad idea.

But if Petraeus says that this will endanger troops lives, then it does, from one perspective, make sense to try to stop it.

But I don't think it's appropriate, or necessary.

The damage is done, IMO.
I'm not sure anything could be done at this point to settle things down.

One guy, with a congregation of what, 50? Half of whom left the church, apparently, over this. So one guy with a congregation now of, let's say 30, has unsettled the US and much of the world with his idiotic idea. And I'm not sure the genie can be put back in the bottle.

Well - let me amend that. One guy and his reduced congregation, fueled by the loud Geller and friends, who have their own thing going on . . . What an effin' mess.

re: #101 BigPapa

burning words, phrases, ideas, philosophies

Jones is simpler than that, I think. Burning a book relieves him of the requirement to talk about ideas, and just lets him figuratively poke his finger in someone's eye.

re: #88 WindUpBird

I mean the obsessive and repetitious join the whig party crap, it's like something an autistic guy would do, constant repetition of stuff nobody cares about, constant inability to engage or relate to other human beings as people

Really...you need to cool it. Take a deep breath.

re: #104 deranged cat

I don't know. Censorship, including censorship of acts, often provokes the act in a way that letting the act happen never does.

I bet youtube gets a bunch of videos of qu-ran burnings in the coming weeks. I'll be glad if there aren't.

re: #106 reine.de.tout

One guy, with a congregation of what, 50? Half of whom left the church, apparently, over this.

do you have the source for that? I remember someone mentioning it on LGF a few days ago, but i havent seen the source. not trolling! just curious..

Everyone who hasn't already should read Shiplord Kirel's LGF Page about the "rule book" promulgated by Pastor Terry for students at his "academy", and click through to the link giving the full six-page fascist illiterate text.

And then someone in God's name explain to me what kind of chin-dribbling, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging "Christian" you have to be to sign up to be this man's student.

An aborted cow fetus has more intelligence.

re: #109 Obdicut

I don't know. Censorship, including censorship of acts, often provokes the act in a way that letting the act happen never does.

I bet youtube gets a bunch of videos of qu-ran burnings in the coming weeks. I'll be glad if there aren't.

Youtube is a private company. They can take them down.

re: #103 Radicchio ad Absurdum

No, actually that is the first time you have said that. You said that klansman and rubes, etc would pull the same stunt.

So, do the radicals who are threatening violence come into this calculation at all, or do they get some kind of pass?

No it's the second time I've said this

Please note my #39

hah and is this where you try and divert the conversation away from Terry Jones? I notice that happens a lot here when people are politically unconfortable with the topic

re: #49 SpaceJesus

my foot would like to make contact with his ass

Since he is a complete ass, I'm afraid your foot would disappear into the abyss.

re: #107 jaunte

Jones is simpler than that, I think. Burning a book relieves him of the requirement to talk about ideas, and just lets him figuratively poke his finger in someone's eye.

1000x updings.

re: #106 reine.de.tout

Yes. We shouldn't lose sight that this guy did not do this on his own. If it weren't for the backdrop of the anti-Muslim rhetoric whipped up by Geller and those opposing Park51, I think this would have only gotten minor mention.

re: #110 deranged cat

do you have the source for that? I remember someone mentioning it on LGF a few days ago, but i havent seen the source. not trolling! just curious..

sheesh.
I saw it here too, but I believe I saw it somewhere else.
Lemme see what I can find.

re: #108 blueraven

Really...you need to cool it. Take a deep breath.

hah, I'm just tired of crap like that being given a pass. Not angry, more just frustrated and disgusted that hurr hurr bburn some bibles that'll work Ojoe was defended on that thread

re: #107 jaunte

Jones is simpler than that, I think. Burning a book relieves him of the requirement to talk about ideas, and just lets him figuratively poke his finger in someone's eye.

yes, with his middle finger. It's essentially 'F*** you Moslems!' in his best Johnny Cash impression.

Its funny if it weren't so serious with the consequences at stake.

re: #88 WindUpBird

I mean the obsessive and repetitious join the whig party crap, it's like something an autistic guy would do, constant repetition of stuff nobody cares about, constant inability to engage or relate to other human beings as people

What do you have against the Modern Whig Party?

I'm gonna burn all the Playboy mags that I hid from my mom that I got from my dad. ust kidding!!
/

re: #112 EmmmieG

Youtube is a private company. They can take them down.

True. For all we know, they already have done so.

re: #116 Obdicut

Yes. We shouldn't lose sight that this guy did not do this on his own. If it weren't for the backdrop of the anti-Muslim rhetoric whipped up by Geller and those opposing Park51, I think this would have only gotten minor mention.

Well, they advanced the state of the art of bigotry, they created the envrionment for these Terry Jones types to thrive. Spencer and Geller showed these people what was possible and gave them cover, they stepped up. It's like a pyramid, and at the top are the very few who are willing to commit violence, supported by the foundation of politicans and media guys and bloggers and radio talkers who are giving them support and ammo

re: #113 WindUpBird

No it's the second time I've said this

Please note my #39

hah and is this where you try and divert the conversation away from Terry Jones? I notice that happens a lot here when people are politically unconfortable with the topic

Not in the least uncomfortable. Sorry if it appeared that way. Lets get back to Jones. I agree it is a bad idea for the Pres. to feed this Kook. I am very troubled by the world wide unrest this fools actions will most certainly cause. So back to my original question (it was a question), is it worse to have the Pres. "legitimize" this fool with a call - risking klansmen and rubes to follow suit - or to risk violence against citizens (American or not) and members of the armed services?

Personally I value human life over inconvenience so I would go with the phone call, assuming there is not a better idea.

You hinted that you had one, but said "you don't want to know." As I already mentioned, yes, I do. I see the US in a lose-lose situation here.

re: #112 EmmmieG

Youtube is a private company. They can take them down.

Youtube is run by Google, a publicly held company :D But yes, they can and they probably will, if it violates their AUP

re: #98 WindUpBird

It's funny how blase' you get talking about things like Autism and downs when you're surrounded by it :p

/and to go on a slight rant, it's appropriate as a negative comparison anyways. Rude to bring up maybe, but its certainly negative, I hate when people reimagine disorders as 'just different'.

Since Gainsville is such a godless place as not to give the good pastor a permit for his symbolic infidel roast, why doesn't he round up a few hundred spare copies of the city's White Pages and burn everybody who lives there?

You know, just to be thorough.

re: #118 WindUpBird

hah, I'm just tired of crap like that being given a pass. Not angry, more just frustrated and disgusted that hurr hurr bburn some bibles that'll work Ojoe was defended on that thread

I understand WUB, but that aint ever gonna happen, no matter who might want it.
Everyone has a different way of thinking about things. I don't agree with that approach at all, but it is just one man's opinion and he has a right to it.

re: #88 WindUpBird

And it's real mature of you to be bagging on someone by comparing them to autistics...

/jackass

re: #110 deranged cat

do you have the source for that? I remember someone mentioning it on LGF a few days ago, but i havent seen the source. not trolling! just curious..

This article mentions the "congregation of 50".

I don't see anything about people leaving the congregation (only did a quick search).

But here's something interesting - apparently part of the church property had its tax-exempt status removed earlier this year as it is used for "for-profit" businesses.

re: #126 windsagio

I don't think it's not actually negative. I just meant that an ordinary autistic kid is less irritating than a normally-functioning bigot.

re: #122 Obdicut

True. For all we know, they already have done so.

they take down a lot of crap all day long. porn, movies, tv show episodes, hell even clips with songs that aren't allowed (they strip the audio and leave the video intact)

i'm not an expert about censorship, nor about stupid people dealing with stupid people.. but if something is far too difficult to continue fighting and there isn't popular support behind it, it won't catch on. that's how i think, atleast.

re: #124 Radicchio ad Absurdum

Not in the least uncomfortable. Sorry if it appeared that way. Lets get back to Jones. I agree it is a bad idea for the Pres. to feed this Kook. I am very troubled by the world wide unrest this fools actions will most certainly cause. So back to my original question (it was a question), is it worse to have the Pres. "legitimize" this fool with a call - risking klansmen and rubes to follow suit - or to risk violence against citizens (American or not) and members of the armed services?

Personally I value human life over inconvenience so I would go with the phone call, assuming there is not a better idea.

You hinted that you had one, but said "you don't want to know." As I already mentioned, yes, I do. I see the US in a lose-lose situation here.

That was a joke, my honest solution is to let him do it, because human life is more endagered by creating a situation where many many more koran burners are motivated.

If you walked into a really REALLY bad neighborhood, pulled out a thousand bucks from your wallet and gave it to the first guy you saw, would you think that would make you more safe? Or less safe?

re: #88 WindUpBird

*shakes WUP*
WHAT THE HELL, WUP! Calm down dude, don't do anything rash, think of the children.

(I know I'm late to this party, but I still wanted to say it) :D

Has the Harpy made any public statement about the Bonfire of the Semitic Texts, or is she just ignoring the intent to burn Talmuds as well and rubbing her liver-spotted hands in glee?

re: #126 windsagio

It's funny how blase' you get talking about things like Autism and downs when you're surrounded by it :p

/and to go on a slight rant, it's appropriate as a negative comparison anyways. Rude to bring up maybe, but its certainly negative, I hate when people reimagine disorders as 'just different'.

yeah, it's a thing. There's a lot of stuff we can't say here ;-)

Here is the view from the Muslim population in Gainesville.

Quran-burning-simply-a-publicity-stunt-local-muslims-say.

*snip*

Ismail Ibn Ali, president of the University of Florida's student organization Muslims on Campus, pointed out that burning Qurans is actually the proper way to dispose of a tattered holy book.

"The physical burning of the Quran is not the issue but it's the hatred behind it," he said.

And that is exactly what it all boils down to in the end.

re: #127 Cato the Elder

Since Gainsville is such a godless place as not to give the good pastor a permit for his symbolic infidel roast, why doesn't he round up a few hundred spare copies of the city's White Pages and burn everybody who lives there?

You know, just to be thorough.

There happens to be a whole hell of a lot more in Gainesville.

re: #131 Obdicut

I don't think it's not actually negative. I just meant that an ordinary autistic kid is less irritating than a normally-functioning bigot.

lol I am totally disarmed, sorry dealt with too many 'activists' in the stuff with my brother :D

re: #133 WindUpBird

That was a joke, my honest solution is to let him do it, because human life is more endagered by creating a situation where many many more koran burners are motivated.

If you walked into a really REALLY bad neighborhood, pulled out a thousand bucks from your wallet and gave it to the first guy you saw, would you think that would make you more safe? Or less safe?

Fair enough.

re: #133 WindUpBird

That was a joke, my honest solution is to let him do it, because human life is more endagered by creating a situation where many many more koran burners are motivated.

If you walked into a really REALLY bad neighborhood, pulled out a thousand bucks from your wallet and gave it to the first guy you saw, would you think that would make you more safe? Or less safe?

You hand out the thousand to ten people. Then you're safe.

re: #134 Nimed

*shakes WUP*
WHAT THE HELL, WUP! Calm down dude, don't do anything rash, think of the children.

(I know I'm late to this party, but I still wanted to say it) :D

I know, i got mad at a guy making jokes about how we should burn more holy books and cook hot dogs with them and claiming that you can't give Those People Special Treatment, because They'll Riot. What was I thinking?!?!? Those are totally acceptable things to say in polite conversation!

Oh blog tribalism

re: #131 Obdicut

I don't think it's not actually negative. I just meant that an ordinary autistic kid is less irritating than a normally-functioning bigot.

This is true! :D

re: #138 Stanley Sea

I'ts a college town, doesn't that make it automatically Godless?

And debauched?

re: #110 deranged cat

do you have the source for that? I remember someone mentioning it on LGF a few days ago, but i havent seen the source. not trolling! just curious..

OK. This article says his congregation has reduced from around 100 to about 50 currently. I'm posting a good portion of this because I think it's interesting.

Barack Obama, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Pope Benedict, Hillary Clinton, NATO, Interpol, every country in the European Union, every religious group in Gainesville, Florida and perhaps the entire civilized world has implored and pleaded with the zealot so-called pastor Terry Jones to cease and desist from burning Korans on September 11, 2010. The foreign ministries of Pakistan and Bahrain issued official denunciations with Bahrain calling it a "shameful act which is incompatible with the principles of tolerance and coexistence." The president of Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has also sent a letter to President Obama asking him to stop the bonfire. In Pakistan, about 200 lawyers and civil society members marched and burned a U.S. flag in the central Pakistani city of Multan, demanding that Washington halt the burning of the Muslim holy book.

Jones' answer? He feigns religious persecution. He says his bank wants his church to pay what it is owed. He also says he has 200 Korans and he wants buy more to burn. There is no subtext or code for what this pastor wants. He wants you to send him and his 50 followers money and lots of it. Yes, please send money by joining as a "member" of the church. He also needs money because Florida authorities discovered that he was running a for-profit eBay enterprise and the state wants to get paid for sales taxes.

The most recent tax filing available on Jones' non-profit church from Guidestar (his church is listed as Dove Charismatic Ministries, Inc) shows his church spends 30.5% on "program services" while "administrative costs" accounted for 69.5 percent. His 20 acre church property is for sale. Online real estate listings indicate Jones is looking for other ways to drum up some cash. According to the listing on real estate website AllisonAbles.com, the Dove World Church is for sale for 2.9 million. The listing says the property has been "reduced $1.1 million for a quick sale".

I strongly suspect the bottom line for Jones is he is broke and he needs to come up with cash very quickly or lose his church. He admits in a deposition that his congregation has decreased in recent years, telling attorneys that he currently has a congregation of about 50 people - whereas he had 100 people when his congregation was at its largest. Some current estimates place the number of members at 30 persons which is hardly enough to support any church.

God has no part of Jones' plan. Jones' plan is the Terry Jones plan and it was the reason why his old church in Cologne Germany fired him. His motive is as earthly, worldly and as old as humanity itself - craven ego, greed and avarice. Terry Jones has figured out the magic formula to get every self loathing zealot nut job in the world to send him money --- Get on every TV, radio, newspaper and web site and plead for like minded idiots to send money. There is no doubt that several hundreds of new "members" have sent in their tithes to pastor fake doctor of theology. So far over 900 fans and potential donors have joined Jones' book fan club and virtual church on Facebook. I wonder why Jones' Facebook and YouTube sites have not been shut down because all of them violate the sites' terms of use prohibiting hate speech.

re: #144 windsagio

I'ts a college town, doesn't that make it automatically Godless?

And debauched?

and full of elitist snobs!

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Hss Islamaphobia increased or become more vocal since Obama became president?

That's hard to say. Once Obama was elected, and a few cried out against the stealth Kenyan borne Muslim, those being repressed by the steel fisted guard of liberal PC felt a kinship with those few and gained the courage to voice their cherished, long held and self evidently moral opinion about those people.

re: #144 windsagio

I'ts a college town, doesn't that make it automatically Godless?

And debauched?

Liberal. The word you're looking for is liberal.
/

re: #145 reine.de.tout

Don't forget his ebay furniture business run by his congreagation who aren't paid!

re: #126 windsagio

It's funny how blase' you get talking about things like Autism and downs when you're surrounded by it :p

. ..

erm - you talking about folks here?
Surely not.

re: #150 reine.de.tout

Meant me and WUB mainly. I live with it, and he spent the last 15 years (until he quit) working with it ;)

re: #150 reine.de.tout

OH NO! No I didn't mean that, it wasn't a dig on the community.

It would have been a brutal diss tho! I'm usually not that clever :P

re: #149 WindUpBird

Don't forget his ebay furniture business run by his congreagation who aren't paid!

Yeah, that's mentioned in one of the links above.

re: #151 windsagio

Meant me and WUB mainly. I live with it, and he spent the last 15 years (until he quit) working with it ;)

okey-dokey. It's sorta what i figured, but I did want to clarify. In case someone takes offense, thinking you were talking about the folks here. So, you are clarified! Nobody get offended . . .

I'm starting to rethink my position on media blackouts in war zones. I mean look at the shit the MSM fixates on. Park 51 and Koran burners.

re: #88 WindUpBird

I mean the obsessive and repetitious join the whig party crap, it's like something an autistic guy would do, constant repetition of stuff nobody cares about, constant inability to engage or relate to other human beings as people

So, now you're going to attack autistic people? How about those of us with Asperger's?

Get the stick out of your ass and relate to people as people.

re: #146 WindUpBird

and full of elitist snobs!

Big game this Saturday at Florida Field. All the press will probably head over for some tailgating after the big burn.

What a joke.

re: #157 Stanley Sea

Big game this Saturday at Florida Field. All the press will probably head over for some tailgating after the big burn.

What a joke.

UF vs. USF Don't think it will be a cake walk.

re: #156 b_sharp

Do you really have diagnosed aspergers, or did you pick up the term on the internet?

Because the latter group can go walk into a tree.

re: #145 reine.de.tout

Jones sounds like a classic failed scammer who's been brought back to financial life by the discovery that there are many bigots even dumber than he.

re: #158 Cannadian Club Akbar

UF vs. USF Don't think it will be a cake walk.

Hell no. It's another 9:30 am game for me! We are going to the Gator club bar this time to watch.

A demon from Hell
called forth by other demons
I name you, Terry Jones.

May your name vanish, your seed
wither in the sun, your eyes fail,
your pride be your fall,
may your name vanish.

And the like curse, and others,
be on the heads of the ones
who called you forth.

re: #161 Stanley Sea

Hell no. It's another 9:30 am game for me! We are going to the Gator club bar this time to watch.

Have a beer for me.:)

re: #160 jaunte

Jones sounds like a classic failed scammer who's been brought back to financial life by the discovery that there are many bigots even dumber than he.

A wannabe Swaggart-type.
Swaggart, though, actually has some musical talent and can at least entertain his congregation.

The anti-Islam sentiment that we're witnessing today really feels remiscient to anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, and anti-Protestantism at different points of history. Was talking with someone today about history and they said the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. Sure as hell feels that way.

Extremists will raise the ire of other extremists. This is true in the case of Terry Jones. This year, the rampant Islamaphobia in the USA has swiftly gone out of control not only with the planned Koran burning, but with the protest and individuals surrounding Park 51 (Geller, Wilders, Spencer, EDL, etc.).

Then there is the recent Islamaphobic rhetoric from Bryan Fischer regarding Muslims being treated as neo-Nazis. No matter how you look at it though it looks clear to me that the American extremists are trying to incite Islamic extremists to satisfy their own cynical goals. Many of the more religious extremists are also intent on inciting a holy war of sorts between Christianity and Islam.

re: #164 reine.de.tout

A wannabe Swaggart-type.
Swaggart, though, actually has some musical talent and can at least entertain his congregation.

And a hooker and his hope to entertain he daughter.

i am sadly unable to form cohesive arguments regarding all this autism talk.
but i just wanted to say i worked a few years in special ed as a sub and it's very eye opening in many ways. i recommend trying it!

re: #150 reine.de.tout

erm - you talking about folks here?
Surely not.

No, he's talking about us

Windy's brother is authstic, and I've been working with autistic people in the DD health care field since 1996.

re: #159 windsagio

Do you really have diagnosed aspergers, or did you pick up the term on the internet?

Because the latter group can go walk into a tree.

Walking into trees is a diagnostic?

re: #169 WindUpBird

No, he's talking about us

Windy's brother is authstic, and I've been working with autistic people in the DD health care field since 1996.

Yes, I know.
It was a cryptic post and sounded almost like an insult of folks here.
I simply tried to get him to clarify and he did.
(lookin' out for him, I am, even though he did call me an ass).
/

OT Update.

Iran to release female American after 13 months

Bak Sahraei, second counselor of the UN mission confirmed Thursday in an e-mail that Sarah Shourd would be the one set free on Saturday.

re: #172 Bubblehead II

OT Update.

Iran to release female American after 13 months

Bak Sahraei, second counselor of the UN mission confirmed Thursday in an e-mail that Sarah Shourd would be the one set free on Saturday.

I had a feeling she would be the one.
Happy for her; still sad for the others.

re: #159 windsagio

That is without a doubt the most reprehensible and stupid post of all your reprehensible and stupid posts here.

So far.

re: #170 wrenchwench

More a punishment :p

See, t's not as bad as jumping into a lake, and waaay less harsh than dying in a fire.

People shouldn't appropriate real disorders to explain why they feel out of place or have social problems.

Its the 'fake transgendered nerd' of the 2000s'

Dinnerjacket can fuck himself.

re: #145 reine.de.tout

wow, what an ass.
"i'm broke, so let me rile up the crazy people and get their money!"

re: #175 windsagio

More a punishment :p

See, t's not as bad as jumping into a lake, and waaay less harsh than dying in a fire.

People shouldn't appropriate real disorders to explain why they feel out of place or have social problems.

Its the 'fake transgendered nerd' of the 2000s'

If only they could see what we've seen in our respective fandoms, the oceans of people self-diagnosing their psychology

Oh well

Good grief.

re: #175 windsagio

Speaking as the relative of someone with Asperger's, may I just say "go fuck yourself"?

re: #180 Cato the Elder

Speaking as the relative of someone with Asperger's, may I just say "go fuck yourself"?

I have known of dozens of people in my outer social circle self-diagnosing themselves with aspergers on the internet

So forgive us if we are skeptical, we have very very good reasons to be skeptical

re: #179 Gus 802

Good grief.

I'm calling bullshit.

re: #66 darthstar

Have three fire trucks roll up and hose down the whole fucking crowd. They'll be using their bibles as umbrellas, which will probably piss off other Xians.

I got no problem with a fire hose for the fire. But "Xians"?
So if some Rabbi does some stupid stunt do we then use those awful anti semitic terms about him? I would sure hope not.

re: #177 deranged cat

wow, what an ass.
"i'm broke, so let me rile up the crazy people and get their money!"

Its the 2nd old profession.

Let's recap:

1) A sitting President carries on an affair with an intern while harassing several other women and the media yawns - well except Drudge.

2) A Presidential candidate impregnates his mistress while his wife is suffering from cancer and the media looks the other way. The National Inquirer reports what the MSM has known--but refuses to report--for a considerable amount of time.

3) A totally unknown "preacher" over a congregation of 40 people (is it that many?) announces he will legally do something that is shunned across the political spectrum--from the most rock hard conservatives through the most limp-noodle liberals--and the MSM ships in their satellite trucks to broadcast this as if this guy were a head of state?

Is there any wonder that the MSM is continually losing their viewers?

re: #180 Cato the Elder

I'd think you'd be on my side, the fakers make everything worse. I also know people with real Aspergers, and it's no joke.

Or is this a 'Windie said something so I have to be offended!' moment?

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm calling bullshit.

I'm calling "quite probable".

War turns some people into beasts.

Americans included.

re: #185 rwmofo

This is why I don't watch any MSM or cable news.

re: #186 windsagio

I'd think you'd be on my side, the fakers make everything worse. I also know people with real Aspergers, and it's no joke.

Or is this a 'Windie said something so I have to be offended!' moment?

He hates you, he doesn't care, he's not being reasonable

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm calling bullshit.

We'll find out soon enough. The US Army site is carrying the news.

[Link: www.army.mil...]

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, June 17, 2010) -- Five Soldiers have been charged with the premeditated murders of three Afghan civilians.

Charges were filed against Pfc. Andrew Holmes, 19, of Boise, Idaho; Spc. Jeremy Morlock; Spc. Michael Wagnon, 29, of Las Vegas, Nev.; Spc. Adam Winfield, 21, of Cape Coral, Fla.; and Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, 25, of Billings, Mont.

All five Soldiers are assigned to B Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment, 5th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division. That unit deployed to Afghanistan in July 2009 and is now processing to return to the U.S...

Speaking as someone who has Aspergers in my immediate family, everybody chill the fuck out. I mean really.

You are all being retarded. ///

re: #186 windsagio

I'd think you'd be on my side, the fakers make everything worse. I also know people with real Aspergers, and it's no joke.

Or is this a 'Windie said something so I have to be offended!' moment?

No, it's a "Windy baselessly accuses another Lizard of self-diagnosing a disease for karma points so I call him an asshole" moment.

re: #185 rwmofo

1) A sitting President carries on an affair with an intern while harassing several other women and the media yawns - well except Drudge.

Really? I seem to remember wall-to-wall coverage.

2) A Presidential candidate impregnates his mistress while his wife is suffering from cancer and the media looks the other way. The National Inquirer reports what the MSM has known--but refuses to report--for a considerable amount of time.

ex-candidate

re: #190 Gus 802

Doesn't mention body parts. I am going to give this one a little time.

re: #22 Obdicut

I think he's kind of backing up Petraeus here. I agree it's a bad idea.

But if Petraeus says that this will endanger troops lives, then it does, from one perspective, make sense to try to stop it.

But I don't think it's appropriate, or necessary.

The Islamic threat of violence is working in exactly the way they intend it to. Terry Jones has a protected constitutional right of free speech and expression- he as a private citizen has every right to do this-and the fact that high level government officials are sending the FBI to "visit" him I think could be construed as an infringement of his civil rights and will probably result in a very lucrative judgment on his behalf in a future civil rights lawsuit.

Why does it seem that so many people are ready to blame him if violence occurs and not the future perpetrators of this violence...?

re: #175 windsagio

More a punishment :p

See, t's not as bad as jumping into a lake, and waaay less harsh than dying in a fire.

People shouldn't appropriate real disorders to explain why they feel out of place or have social problems.

Its the 'fake transgendered nerd' of the 2000s'

Appropriating disorders to assuage egos and make onesself feel special is damaging to actual clinical diagnosis, it can prevent people from becoming empowered enough to get themselves help

I don't know if b-sharp is telling the truth or not, but I do know that there's a ton of people who just up and decide they have a psych disorder with no clinical diagnosis

Beware the instant expert on psych, beware the fakers, they're enemies of medicine

re: #193 tnguitarist

Really? I seem to remember wall-to-wall coverage.

ex-candidate

Actually, the Edwards incident occurred while his campaign was running still.

re: #190 Gus 802

Sorry, I just don't trust the AP.

re: #191 Fozzie Bear

Speaking as someone who has Aspergers in my immediate family, everybody chill the fuck out. I mean really.

You are all being retarded. ///

This is why I like you :D

Modern autism diagnoses are pansy-ass anyways!

re: #192 Cato the Elder

No, it's a "Windy baselessly accuses another Lizard of self-diagnosing a disease for karma points so I call him an asshole" moment.

karma points? People are hostile to windy on this, why would that get him karma points? Exactly the opposite, actually

re: #199 windsagio

This is why I like you :D

Modern autism diagnoses are pansy-ass anyways!

who were those people who were all megavitamin therapy?

re: #196 WindUpBird

I'm not saying he's lying anyways, many people do have a diagnosis. I just felt the need to go off on a rant about the other people, who are a virus.

re: #197 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, the Edwards incident occurred while his campaign was running still.

And he made a tape. BONUS!!
///

re: #201 WindUpBird

I dunno, my mom tried that back in the '70s with my brother. Needless to say, it didn't work :P

re: #200 WindUpBird

karma points? People are hostile to windy on this, why would that get him karma points? Exactly the opposite, actually

No, tool. He's accusing the other guy of doing it for karma points.

Windy's downdings are well-earned, and neither one of you has the Magic Internet Fake Diagnosis Meter.

re: #195 onepistoffyid

The Islamic threat of violence is working in exactly the way they intend it to. Terry Jones has a protected constitutional right of free speech and expression- he as a private citizen has every right to do this-and the fact that high level government officials are sending the FBI to "visit" him I think could be construed as an infringement of his civil rights and will probably result in a very lucrative judgment on his behalf in a future civil rights lawsuit.

Why does it seem that so many people are ready to blame him if violence occurs and not the future perpetrators of this violence...?

Nobody's saying he doesn't have the right to do it, they're just saying it's not wise.

See what I did there?

re: #205 Cato the Elder

No, tool. He's accusing the other guy of doing it for karma points.

Windy's downdings are well-earned, and neither one of you has the Magic Internet Fake Diagnosis Meter.

Obviously, because there is only one M.I.F.D.M., and I am holding it right now.

re: #145 reine.de.tout

His church is for sale, eh?

Think Imam Rauf could raise the funds to buy it, set up a mosque there, perhaps...?

re: #175 windsagio

re: #196 WindUpBird

I'm thinking perhaps, with folks with whom we interact every day, it might be a good idea to assume good faith and try to clarify, before jumping all over somebody. Ya know?

I (heart) crazy people.

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry, I just don't trust the AP.

And CBS, MSNBC, Reuters, NBC, ABC, NPR, New York Times, LA Times, BBC, McClatchy... //

Body part claims aside I posted a link to the US Army News Service which supports the news of charges regarding the murder of 3 civilians including an attempt to impede the investigation by Spc. Michael Wagnon.

re: #206 tnguitarist

Nobody's saying he doesn't have the right to do it, they're just saying it's not wise.

See what I did there?

I'm not saying that you said that...my point is that sending the FBI to "talk" to him is infringing on his rights since it can be legally construed as very intimidating. Our democracy and right(s) of free speech are being degraded by this incident, and it isn't Terry Jones' fault, it is our government's.

re: #209 reine.de.tout

I really really was not making any judgements, I figure its 50/50 with anyone who claims aspergers :P

I really just wanted to use the term 'go walk into a tree' and give a little rant on a subject close to me (that he brought up :p)

Well that and I was responding to the 'HOW DARE YOU' element.

re: #187 Cato the Elder

I'm calling "quite probable".

War turns some people into beasts.

Americans included.

What you say of course is true, we have terrible incidents from the past to consider. But the story has some weirdness-The soldiers have lawyers as spokespeop0le but the military has not yet filed charges?
And this-
"But Cpl Morlock's lawyer told the Seattle Times his client's statements were made while he was suffering from concussion, was under the influence of prescription drugs, and was being evacuated."

I'd say wait and see.

re: #205 Cato the Elder

No, tool. He's accusing the other guy of doing it for karma points.

Windy's downdings are well-earned, and neither one of you has the Magic Internet Fake Diagnosis Meter.

Fair enough, whatever

I'll just say this, that in my actual considerable experience hanging around on the internet with very strange people who often diagnose themselves with all kinds of psych, that I instinctively distrust anyone who pops up and says I'M ASPERGERS on the net

if you have more experience hanging out with people who behave like this than I do, I'd be extremely surprised

re: #212 onepistoffyid

I'm not saying that you said that...my point is that sending the FBI to "talk" to him is infringing on his rights since it can be legally construed as very intimidating. Our democracy and right(s) of free speech are being degraded by this incident, and it isn't Terry Jones' fault, it is our government's.

Uhh, no, it isn't infringing on your rights to be talked to by law enforcement. I have no idea where you get this idea, but it's bullshit.

re: #211 Gus 802

And CBS, MSNBC, Reuters, NBC, ABC, NPR, New York Times, LA Times, BBC, McClatchy... //

Body part claims aside I posted a link to the US Army News Service which supports the news of charges regarding the murder of 3 civilians including an attempt to impede the investigation by Spc. Michael Wagnon.

And if they killed innocent people, the go to the brig. But to me, putting an arm or leg in your luggage might kinda suck.

re: #195 onepistoffyid

The Islamic threat of violence is working in exactly the way they intend it to. Terry Jones has a protected constitutional right of free speech and expression- he as a private citizen has every right to do this-and the fact that high level government officials are sending the FBI to "visit" him I think could be construed as an infringement of his civil rights and will probably result in a very lucrative judgment on his behalf in a future civil rights lawsuit.

Why does it seem that so many people are ready to blame him if violence occurs and not the future perpetrators of this violence...?

Maybe because he is a fucking creep who is trying to raise money in the face of endangering our soldiers and other Americans abroad.
He is no man of God, and he is a crook to boot. So spare me your bleeding heart.

On Twiiter:
@BreakingNews Florida church pastor says he's calling off burning of Qurans - Reuters

Oh and Matthews says the ppastor is "calling the whole thing off".

re: #190 Gus 802

Looks like the Army was was notified about this by the Parents of one of the men charged.

Soldier's father: Army was warned of murder plot

SEATTLE — The father of a U.S. soldier serving in Afghanistan says he tried nearly a half dozen times to pass an urgent message from his son to the Army: Troops in his unit had murdered an Afghan civilian, planned more killings and threatened him to keep quiet about it.

re: #159 windsagio

Do you really have diagnosed aspergers, or did you pick up the term on the internet?

Because the latter group can go walk into a tree.

Let's see. My grandson was diagnosed as autistic, although high functioning. My daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers. My father shows many of the symptoms although he's never been diagnosed. The symptoms I had as a kid were similar to both my grandson's and my daughter's.

No, I don't suppose I picked the term up on the Internet.

I take it admitting to atheism around you and WUB is the kiss of death and everything said after is suspect.

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

And if they killed innocent people, the go to the brig. But to me, putting an arm or leg in your luggage might kinda suck.

History has shown that ears, foreskins, and other body parts were commonly collected by soldiers in past wars. Most notoriously in Vietnam.

re: #212 onepistoffyid

I'm not saying that you said that...my point is that sending the FBI to "talk" to him is infringing on his rights since it can be legally construed as very intimidating. Our democracy and right(s) of free speech are being degraded by this incident, and it isn't Terry Jones' fault, it is our government's.

I think you missed my point. That is the Geller-bots' argument against the mosque in NYC. I flipped the script...

re: #212 onepistoffyid

I'm not saying that you said that...my point is that sending the FBI to "talk" to him is infringing on his rights since it can be legally construed as very intimidating. Our democracy and right(s) of free speech are being degraded by this incident, and it isn't Terry Jones' fault, it is our government's.

When this guy's actions contribute to the danger our troops are in, which they have, then the situation has become a national security issue, I would think. And I assume there is a different set of "rules" for that.

Amazing. Two bit cultist Emperor has all the world at his feet. Don't think the wannabes ain't watching. A few innocent people are going to die somewhere and it will be all on his head. But times are tough and his property is up for sale. Being the Emperor is expensive.Follow The Money Maybe if he erected a Glenn Beck weeping statue with coin operated Vapo-Rub stations so all can weep with Glenn? Money in that I'm sure.
I've always subscibed to the theory that some folks just need a punch in the face. This pinhead is one.

re: #216 Fozzie Bear

He isn't breaking any laws, so why do they need to travel 1/2 way across the country to "speak " with him. Did the FBI ever do that when somebody burned the flag or the bible?

No Quaran burning Sat. He says he made a deal about moving the NYC mosque.

re: #222 Gus 802

History has shown that ears, foreskins, and other body parts were commonly collected by soldiers in past wars. Most notoriously in Vietnam.

Ya know, even in my nuttiest times, I never thought about collecting foreskin.

re: #126 windsagio

It's funny how blase' you get talking about things like Autism and downs when you're surrounded by it :p

/and to go on a slight rant, it's appropriate as a negative comparison anyways. Rude to bring up maybe, but its certainly negative, I hate when people reimagine disorders as 'just different'.

So let me get this straight...

If you work with developmentally challenged people, it's okay to use "autistic" or "retarded" as derogatory insults? Wouldn't that be a bit like someone saying that since they work with African-Americans, it's okay for them to use "The N Word" as a derogatory insult?

re: #227 avanti

No Quaran burning Sat. He says he made a deal about moving the NYC mosque.

Bullshit

For people who felt that Lost was a promising show that ended up really sucking -- have your hatred validated in this very thorough review (full of spoilers, as you would expect).

re: #224 reine.de.tout

When this guy's actions contribute to the danger our troops are in, which they have, then the situation has become a national security issue, I would think. And I assume there is a different set of "rules" for that.

It is 100% totally and completely legal for the FBI to talk to people, under any circumstances, for any reason, just because they want to talk to you. There is no law broken by doing so, no civil right threatened, nada.

So, it doesn't require a different set of rules, because the first set of rules already covers this.

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bullshit

He's holding a presser as we speak.

re: #224 reine.de.tout

Any non-Muslim fighting in a Muslim country is already a target. Some nut job burning a Koran in Florida isn't going to endanger them anymore than they are already.

Jones releases news cycle from his captivity.

And Gainesville. Go Gators!

Another pastor plans to burn Qur’an

The longtime Baptist minister says the Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove World Center Outreach in Gainesville, Fla., is doing the right thing by burning the Quran. So he's going to do likewise.

Old plans to set fire to a Quran on Saturday at his home and then post a video of the burning book online. And if he had his way, there would be no Muslims in America.

"If they want to have their religion, they can have it somewhere else," said Old, former pastor of First Baptist Church in Joelton and Academy Heights Baptist Church in Gallatin, which merged with another church. He no longer has a congregation and instead runs an evangelical ministry called Disciples of Christ.

News of the local Quran burning angered the Rev. Larry Herbert of Faith Covenant Church in Springfield. He dismissed it as a publicity stunt.

"The guy is a nut," Herbert said. "This is crazy. I am sorry that anyone who names the name of Christ would do this."

re: #236 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another pastor plans to burn Qur’an

Ugh.

re: #233 avanti

He's holding a presser as we speak.

He might very well be, but I think his reports of a deal are bullshit.

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

It is 100% totally and completely legal for the FBI to talk to people, under any circumstances, for any reason, just because they want to talk to you. There is no law broken by doing so, no civil right threatened, nada.

So, it doesn't require a different set of rules, because the first set of rules already covers this.

I was thinking more along the lines of requiring him to shut down the event.
No matter, looks like something else is happening. Trying to find it . . .

If I owned a Koran, you know what I would do? Throw it next to the books on the shelf I haven't read yet.

re: #221 b_sharp

Let's see. My grandson was diagnosed as autistic, although high functioning. My daughter was diagnosed with Aspergers. My father shows many of the symptoms although he's never been diagnosed. The symptoms I had as a kid were similar to both my grandson's and my daughter's.

No, I don't suppose I picked the term up on the Internet.

I take it admitting to atheism around you and WUB is the kiss of death and everything said after is suspect.

No. Atheism is fine. I am agnostic/deist, I am essentially irreligious, and believe in a higher power as an abstract, sort of by default, much the way I believe there are boundaries to the universe

The thing is this: Claiming your athiesm makes you superior, or smarter, or more of a critical thinker than religious people, and that religion is merely a made up stopgap to explain stuff like thunderstorms and droughts, is massively disrespectful to Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pretty much everyone who's not athiest. And pretty much ignorant of human culture and development in general

I have many friends who are athiests, but what they don't do, is go on and on about how religion is a cancer and we should get rid of religion and religion ruins everything. I don't give anyone a pass when they start saying those things, because it's bigotry

So the kiss of death, if you want to know, is gloating about how more elightened you are and how religion should be done away with. That's pretty intolerable, and I don't like interacting with such people

re: #226 onepistoffyid

He isn't breaking any laws, so why do they need to travel 1/2 way across the country to "speak " with him. Did the FBI ever do that when somebody burned the flag or the bible?

Because they want to. Because they have questions for him. Because they want to try to talk him out of it, perhaps. Who knows.

What I *DO* know for an absolute fact, is that it is 100% legal for them to do so. It requires no warrants, no special orders, nothing. Talking to people isn't doing things "to" them, it's talking. The pastor would be within his rights to refuse to talk to them, of course, but it is perfectly legal for the FBI to talk to people.

There is no direct of implied violation of any right here. None.

I keep getting a mental image of a big dog, like a Rottweiler, lifting his leg and peeing on the good (not) Reverand as he gives his righteous (not) speech in preparation of The Burning™. Then I wanna see that video go viral. And I'll laugh and laugh...

re: #236 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's becoming painfully obvious that people are just trying to get in the news cycle now.

re: #229 Slumbering Behemoth

It's less about 'okayness' than about 'you get desensitized'.

Here's the difference: There are actual negative qualities associated with developmental disabilities. These qualities can be compared to people (as compared to blackness which has no inherent negative qualities).

It can be rude and often inappropriate to do, but that kind of insensitivity happens a LOT in healthcare.

re: #213 windsagio

I really really was not making any judgements, I figure its 50/50 with anyone who claims aspergers :P

I really just wanted to use the term 'go walk into a tree' and give a little rant on a subject close to me (that he brought up :p)

Well that and I was responding to the 'HOW DARE YOU' element.

So WUB using the term autistic as an insult is acceptable?

re: #234 onepistoffyid

Any non-Muslim fighting in a Muslim country is already a target. Some nut job burning a Koran in Florida isn't going to endanger them anymore than they are already.

I believe there are places where our troops have gained a measure of respect and cooperation (even if they aren't liked, which is irrelevant). I believe Terry Jones' actions could very well endanger them more than they are.

re: #204 windsagio

I dunno, my mom tried that back in the '70s with my brother. Needless to say, it didn't work :P

When I was in College I took classes to be a Mental Health Technician and spent a couple hours a week working out at Napa Mental Hospital..
Worked a few T wards but mostly with DD and DS's...Sometimes I would just hang out in the Childrens autistic ward and just hand out music toys and just play guitar and sing while they banged drums and had fun.. Music is the life of our soul...I wrote a paper about it in School...The Children were wonderful to work with...Adults were Sick, Sad, disgusting, Helpless and on serious drugs..

re: #243 allegro

I keep getting a mental image of a big dog, like a Rottweiler, lifting his leg and peeing on the good (not) Reverand as he gives his righteous (not) speech in preparation of The Burning™. Then I wanna see that video go viral. And I'll laugh and laugh...

I still want the Super Secret Super Soaker Squad to make an appearance with their high pressure water guns.

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He might very well be, but I think his reports of a deal are bullshit.

Says he's flying up Sat to discuss plans to move the mosque. A Muslim is speaking now, about how he wanted to defuse the situation.

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

When the FBI targets re: #232 Fozzie Bear

Of course it is "legal" for them to speak with him, but it is the content of the conversation that could be problematic. If they attempt to threaten or coerce him not to exercise his rights as officials of the government, it could very well constitute an infringement of his civil rights, and trust me there will be attorneys lining up to get him as a client pro bono (not me though)

re: #250 avanti

Says he's flying up Sat to discuss plans to move the mosque. A Muslim is speaking now, about how he wanted to defuse the situation.

Maybe they decided to purchase his property?

re: #249 PT Barnum

I still want the Super Secret Super Soaker Squad to make an appearance with their high pressure water guns.

Excellent thought. It could be considered a counter-protest, and just as legitimate.

re: #245 windsagio

But, is it okay or not to use "autistic" or "retarded" as derogatory insults?

re: #246 b_sharp