The Mosque in the World Trade Center

US News • Views: 8,561

As Pamela Geller gloatingly prepares to host her hate rally against the Islamic community center two blocks from Ground Zero, shrieking that it defiles the memory of the victims of the 9/11 attacks, here’s a must-read article at the New York Times on a piece of history it might be good to remember: Muslim Prayer Room Was Part of Life at Twin Towers.

Over the next few days, noticing some fellow Muslims on the job, Mr. Abdus-Salaam voiced an equally essential question: “So where do you pray at?” And so he learned about the Muslim prayer room on the 17th floor of the south tower.

He went there regularly in the months to come, first doing the ablution known as wudu in a washroom fitted for cleansing hands, face and feet, and then facing toward Mecca to intone the salat prayer.

On any given day, Mr. Abdus-Salaam’s companions in the prayer room might include financial analysts, carpenters, receptionists, secretaries and ironworkers. There were American natives, immigrants who had earned citizenship, visitors conducting international business — the whole Muslim spectrum of nationality and race.

Leaping down the stairs on Sept. 11, 2001, when he had been installing ceiling speakers for a reinsurance company on the 49th floor, Mr. Abdus-Salaam had a brief, panicked thought. He didn’t see any of the Muslims he recognized from the prayer room. Where were they? Had they managed to evacuate?

He staggered out to the gathering place at Broadway and Vesey. From that corner, he watched the North Tower collapse, to be followed soon by the South. Somewhere in the smoking, burning mountain of rubble lay whatever remained of the prayer room, and also of some of the Muslims who had used it.

Jump to bottom

324 comments
1 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:44:03pm

Geller is a dick.

2 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:44:10pm

The name of the new mosque should be "17th Floor, WTC."

3 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:44:11pm

The people who need to read this never will.

4 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:45:25pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That is true.

5 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:45:30pm

Believe it or not Pamella, Osama bin Laden was very pleased with destroying that prayer room and the modern Muslims who prayed in it.

The same Muslims who prayed in that room are the same Muslims who would pray in Park51.

6 ProMayaLiberal  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:46:39pm

This is going on my FB wall.

7 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:46:40pm

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Geller is a dick.

Is or has?

8 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:49:41pm

well, why to let religion enter an inter-religious (including atheist) tragedy?

9 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:51:27pm
“It is a shame, shame, shame,” Mr. Mamdouh, 49, said of the Parc51 dispute. “Sometimes I wake up and think, this is not what I came to America for. I came here to build this country together. People are using this issue for their own agenda. It’s designed to keep the hate going.

That's all you need to know about the Park51/Cordoba House "controversy" right there.

10 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:51:35pm

re: #8 Tsedek

well, why to let religion enter an inter-religious (including atheist) tragedy?

What?

11 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:51:53pm

re: #10 blueraven

What?

Seconded.

12 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:52:57pm

re: #11 Varek Raith

Seconded.

Thirdeded

13 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:53:42pm

re: #8 Tsedek

Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 271
No. of links posted: 0

ruh roh

14 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:54:27pm

re: #13 sattv4u2

Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 271
No. of links posted: 0

ruh roh

What?

15 Thin blue line  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:55:09pm

And of course all were welcomed into the chapel area of WTC tower II to bow before the cross! Oh wait there was not chapel....

Never Forget....

"Tolerance should not be taken"

16 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:55:44pm

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What?

Second Base

Who's on first

17 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:56:36pm

re: #8 Tsedek

A sleeper awakes.

18 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:56:40pm

re: #16 sattv4u2

Who.

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:56:49pm

re: #8 Tsedek

Okay... I gave it three reads... English may not be your first language.

What the hell did you mean?

20 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:56:52pm

re: #13 sattv4u2

Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:48 pm
No. of comments posted: 271
No. of links posted: 0

ruh roh

No. of comments posted: 271
Karma: 0

Yikes

21 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:57:16pm

re: #20 blueraven

No. of comments posted: 271
Karma: 0

Yikes

hence,,, my #13

22 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:58:45pm

Man, there's a real chorus of chattering monkeys on Twitter who love to retweet nasty stuff about me. Why they got to go all up in there and do me like that?

There's a FreedomWorks Teabagger blog convention, and "Ace of Spades" is talking smack. The comment that's supposed to destroy my will to live:

"Charles Johnson, a cult of personality with no personality."

Yawn. Also, this knee-slapper about Conor Friedersdorf:

"Conor Friedersdorf will die broke and alone."

Now that's some good quality right wing funny!

23 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 12:59:39pm

Incoming.

24 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:00:18pm

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay... I gave it three reads... English may not be your first language.

What the hell did you mean?

Even without the meds you're on, I have no clue

25 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:00:23pm

re: #20 blueraven

No. of comments posted: 271
Karma: 0

Yikes

Karma didn't start until '07 or '08, so he's probably been sleeping since then.

26 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:01:01pm

re: #22 Charles

The thing about hate is that it searches for those whose mental stability isn't real strong, then, once the victim is infected, it just destroys all parts of the brain that deals with "rationality" and "logic". Sad that there is no real effective cure.

27 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:01:09pm

re: #18 commadore183

Who.

THE Who
[Link: www.google.com...]

28 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:01:16pm

Wait and see what Pam does if they want a prayer space in the new towers.

29 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:01:59pm

re: #28 avanti

Wait and see what Pam does if they want a prayer space in the new towers.

HER towers?

She got new ones??

Cool!!

30 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02:02pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

"Talking 'bout my generation!"

31 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02:30pm

re: #22 Charles

"Charles Johnson, a cult of personality with no personality."


Which is why we have to obsess over him every waking hour!!!

32 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02:47pm

re: #26 commadore183

The thing about hate is that it searches for those whose mental stability isn't real strong, then, once the victim is infected, it just destroys all parts of the brain that deals with "rationality" and "logic".

Not to mention "humor." This is from a panel about humor in blogging.

33 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02:48pm

Meanwhile, "Pastor" Jones (woe to his sheep!) holds the lives of people he will never meet hostage to hate.

This is some fucked-up shit.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02:55pm

re: #28 avanti

Your new avatar looks like the Fighting Irish guy from Notre Dame... until he gets clicked, anyway.

35 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:03:21pm

re: #21 sattv4u2

hence,,, my #13

Yes..I just added the karma score.

Not good.

36 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:04:02pm

re: #32 Charles

That too.

37 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:04:55pm

i don't understand. what is so difficult to understand in what I wrote?

38 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:04:57pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

Karma didn't start until '07 or '08, so he's probably been sleeping since then.

Oh, OK. Yes that would matter, thanks.

39 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:05:33pm

re: #37 Tsedek

i don't understand. what is so difficult to understand in what I wrote?

Ummm,,, the words
But only in the particular order you used them!

40 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:06:22pm

re: #37 Tsedek

i don't understand. what is so difficult to understand in what I wrote?

Try putting it in different words.

41 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:07:33pm

re: #8 Tsedek

well, why to let religion enter an inter-religious (including atheist) tragedy?

Are you saying 9/11 was not a religious tragedy? So why concern ourselves regarding whether or not the Mosque gets built?

42 KenJen  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:07:34pm

re: #37 Tsedek

i don't understand. what is so difficult to understand in what I wrote?

well, why let understanding into an anti- understanding situation?

43 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:08:06pm

re: #40 Cato the Elder

Try putting it in different words.

An overwhelmed frown stumbles.

44 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:08:10pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your new avatar looks like the Fighting Irish guy from Notre Dame... until he gets clicked, anyway.

It's my old division patch from the USS Newport News, I was just playing.

45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:08:44pm

re: #44 avanti

Totally cool... it just interests me how avatars look when blown up.

46 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:09:22pm

Cato, when a tragedy is committed to many people, including people of the religion the offenders are saying to 'represent', doesn't it make sense that religion shouldn't have symbols (like that mosque they're saying they wanna build) in such a place?

47 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:10:18pm

Apparently not.

48 Alecto  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:11:13pm

If there is one thing radical Muslims like destroying more than Westerners, it's moderate and liberal Muslims.

49 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:11:23pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Ah. Now I get what you're saying. And I feel honored to have the privilege to give you your first down-ding.

50 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:11:29pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Do you come with sub-titles?

51 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:12:07pm

re: #50 sattv4u2

Do you come with sub-titles?

Nante?

52 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:12:18pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Cato, when a tragedy is committed to many people, including people of the religion the offenders are saying to 'represent', doesn't it make sense that religion shouldn't have symbols (like that mosque they're saying they wanna build) in such a place?

No, that doesn't make sense at all.

53 ProMayaLiberal  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:12:55pm

re: #46 Tsedek

No. The mainstream followers should not be held responsible for the acts of a few ignorant nutjobs. By the same logic, there should be a Church near the former site of the Murrah Building, or near any abortion clinic. Some people need to understand that Al-Qaeda doesn't equal Islam.

54 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:13:03pm

re: #45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Totally cool... it just interests me how avatars look when blown up.

You really need to get a hobby!
/

55 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:13:04pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Cato, when a tragedy is committed to many people, including people of the religion the offenders are saying to 'represent', doesn't it make sense that religion shouldn't have symbols (like that mosque they're saying they wanna build) in such a place?

So the Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed on 9/11 should not be rebuilt either?

56 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:13:04pm

re: #46 Tsedek

I give him 11 minutes. Start the clock.

57 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:13:40pm

re: #41 filetandrelease

Are you saying 9/11 was not a religious tragedy? So why concern ourselves regarding whether or not the Mosque gets built?

i'm saying that religion has nothing to do with crazy fanatics trying to represent anything at all. i am AGAINST building a mosque on those grounds. when an area that has caused the death of so many people of so many religions (as I said including atheism) is targetted - one should focus only on the people and not on each individual and personal believe (religion) when commemorating that area.

58 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:13:47pm

re: #48 Alecto

If there is one thing radical Muslims like destroying more than Westerners, it's moderate and liberal Muslims.

Seriously. They're just as quick to terrorize and kill Muslims they see as apostate or blasphemers (like, say, a Sufi Imam) as they are an American soldier or tourist. For those nutjobs every other version of Islam is wrong except theirs, and there's only two choices -- convert or die.

59 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:14:05pm

re: #56 Max D. Reinhardt

I give him 11 minutes. Start the clock.


I only have a three minute egg timer

bet that'll be sufficient!

60 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:15:06pm

Did I suddenly lose the ability to comprehend English?

61 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:15:17pm

I'm currently reading William Doyle's history of the French Revolution. One surprising takeaway is that the French won the War of Independence for America.

Think about it.

Thank you, Louis XVI!

62 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:15:23pm

re: #57 Tsedek

i'm saying that religion has nothing to do with crazy fanatics trying to represent anything at all. i am AGAINST building a mosque on those grounds. when an area that has caused the death of so many people of so many religions (as I said including atheism) is targetted - one should focus only on the people and not on each individual and personal believe (religion) when commemorating that area.

That is absurd.

If any place needed places of decent and Godly religions that venerate the value of life, Ground Zero is the place.

63 allegro  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:15:47pm

re: #57 Tsedek

Downding for making no freaking sense and making me read that twice to make sure.

64 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:16:45pm

re: #23 Charles

Incoming.

Yeah, on all sides. Ramadan's over; gloves off.

65 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:16:45pm

re: #57 Tsedek

i'm saying that religion has nothing to do with crazy fanatics ltrying to represent anything at all. i am AGAINST building a mosque on those grounds. when an area that has caused the death of so many people of so many religions (as I said including atheism) is targetted - one should focus only on the people and not on each individual and personal believe (religion) when commemorating that area.

The area caused death? What?

66 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:16:49pm

re: #57 Tsedek

Last I checked the community center was two blocks away. Is the rest of Manhattan out of bounds too? How about Tennessee? Or here in California? Dumbass.

67 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:17:01pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Thanks for the clarification.

Now earn your harvest.

68 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:17:11pm

re: #60 Varek Raith

Did I suddenly lose the ability to comprehend English?

I suggest drinking more. That might help. Or upgrading the Babel Fish. ;)

69 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:17:25pm

re: #57 Tsedek

when an area that has caused the death of so many people of so many religions (as I said including atheism) is targetted

I see

So what kind of "area" would be an appropriate buffer, in that the 9/11 hijackers targeted several easy coast "areas'

No mosques on the northeast of the US?
Non east of the Mississippi?
Non east of the California coast?
Non east of Hawaii!?!?!

iirc (and I do) the hijackers attacked America. So no mosques in America?

70 ProMayaLiberal  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:17:29pm

re: #57 Tsedek

Except that the "Mosque" being built isn't in Ground Zero! It's two blocks away, which is about 600 ft. And if i'm not mistaken, I think the plans had been tweaked recently right?

71 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:17:37pm

I come here for clear concise thoughts, even if I don't agree with them, today all I get is a head ache.

72 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:18:06pm

Someone who is less coherent than TFK, wow.

73 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:18:09pm

re: #55 filetandrelease

So the Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed on 9/11 should not be rebuilt either?

well, everything that was there could be rebuild but in place of those commercial buildings and along that site - i think it's wrong to build a mosque (or a church, or a synagogue). it should be a place where PEOPLE (and not their religion) should be commemorated.

74 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:18:19pm

re: #46 Tsedek

Cato, when a tragedy is committed to many people, including people of the religion the offenders are saying to 'represent', doesn't it make sense that religion shouldn't have symbols (like that mosque they're saying they wanna build) in such a place?

You sir are a horrible, disgusting, bigoted person. Good day.

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:18:34pm

re: #61 Cato the Elder

We forget about that, don't we? Without Frenchie, we're British...

76 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:19:13pm

re: #73 Tsedek

You realize we're not talking about the actual site of ground zero, right?

This is an old, closed, Burlington Coat factory.

77 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:19:23pm

And yet these hateful lunatics (Geller, et al.) still hold sway in the MSM.

78 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:19:31pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone who is less coherent than TFK, wow.

John. Fucking. Kerry.

79 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:19:58pm

re: #73 Tsedek

Did God give a shoe the ability to type?

80 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:20:04pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

John. Fucking. Kerry.

RRRAAARRRGGG!!!

81 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:20:32pm

re: #60 Varek Raith

Did I suddenly lose the ability to comprehend English?

You and the multitudes.

82 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:20:41pm

re: #76 Obdicut

You realize we're not talking about the actual site of ground zero, right?

This is an old, closed, Burlington Coat factory.

But it's close to the sacred strip club too.

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:20:58pm

re: #61 Cato the Elder

I'm currently reading William Doyle's history of the French Revolution. One surprising takeaway is that the French won the War of Independence for America.

Think about it.

Thank you, Louis XVI!

He did it to support sales of furniture in the future U.S., especially chairs...

/

84 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:21:12pm

re: #82 avanti

But it's close to the sacred strip club too.

And the hallowed off track betting temple!

85 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:21:25pm

Okay ,, after the last thread and now this,, we need comic releif,,,

I present

lmao starts about 2:40 in

Goofy ,, but what the hell

86 Winny Spencer  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:22:21pm

"Battle not with trolls, lest ye become a troll, and if you feed the troll, the troll also feeds on you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

87 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:22:42pm

you're all dumb ass americans. i live in israel and am active on many international forums and you are the fucking only ones who are short headed and cannot comprehend anything that goes beyond your I.Q.

(and to think that I defend americans everywhere... phew.. you sure make me doubt and think that i was wrong defending that small headness you are all blamed to have on european and israeli boards)

88 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:23:01pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the hallowed off track betting temple!

I put two bits on Yahweh to win!!!

89 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:23:18pm

re: #15 Thin blue line

What was that Jesus said? Thinking thinking Oh, yeah "Get thee behind me, Satan."

90 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:23:31pm

re: #73 Tsedek

It's NOT a mosque! It's a community center that has a prayer room (open to people of ALL religions). The only Islamic items that I think would be there would be a sign pointing towards Mecca, prayer rugs, and something to wash themselves.

You either have to have several Kool-Aid IVs in you to believe what SS Scharführer Geller says, or you really are a bigot from the start. Only one of those can be cured effectively.

91 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:23:36pm

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

92 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:24:03pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the hallowed off track betting temple!

Quoted from the net

"When I walked from Park Place on the north side of the World Trade Center to Rector Street on the south side, what I encountered were a string of bars, betting parlors, and fast-food restaurants. And within this cluster of buildings, especially noticeable were two strip clubs, the New York Dolls Gentleman’s Club and the Pussycat Lounge, plus Thunder Lingerie and More, a sex shop with a peep show.

This kind of commercial mix is typical of New York. Most of us who have lived in the city for any period of time take it for granted. But for those who have based their opposition to the Muslim Center on their concern for the sensibilities of the 9/11 families, places like the New York Dolls and the Pussycat Lounge present a moral dilemma.

Why are they treated with a live-and-let-live tolerance that doesn’t extend to an Islamic center? How, as a practical matter, are pole dancers less of an affront to the memory of the 9/11 dead than a community center that will have prayer space, a 500-seat auditorium, and a bookstore?"

93 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:24:32pm

re: #87 Tsedek

Well, that didn't take long.

Buh-bye, now.

94 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:24:45pm

re: #87 Tsedek

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya.
Bye Bye.

95 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:24:54pm

re: #87 Tsedek

And with that foaming, anti-American comment I bid you adieu.

96 Tsedek  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:24:58pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

You sir are a horrible, disgusting, bigoted person. Good day.

that's exactly what i think of you sir.and thank you for saving me the trouble of defending americans on dutch and israeli boards anymore
you've just done me a great favor.

97 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:25:01pm

re: #87 Tsedek

short headed

I blame genetics

BUT ,,,, I have a blue pill!!

98 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:25:05pm

re: #90 commadore183

Also forgot to add that it's TWO BLOCKS from Ground Zero, not "on" Ground Zero.

99 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:25:24pm

re: #87 Tsedek

Your writings show the IQ you are operating at...

100 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:25:39pm

re: #87 Tsedek

Frothy.

101 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:25:44pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

Trolling again?

102 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:26:04pm

Why do they always pop up in groups of two or three?

103 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:26:08pm

re: #96 Tsedek

that's exactly what i think of you sir.and thank you for saving me the trouble of defending americans on dutch and israeli boards anymore
you've just done me a great favor.

A staunch defender indeed.

104 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:26:20pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

"The building was once part of a textile district surrounding City Hall.

On Sept. 11, the landing gear assembly of one of the planes used in the attack crashed through the roof of what was then a Burlington Coat Factory. "

105 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:26:31pm

Projection, thy name is Tsedek.

106 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:27:00pm

re: #96 Tsedek

We will survive, but thanks for nothing.

107 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:27:13pm

re: #102 Charles

Why do they always pop up in groups of two or three?

I'm sticking with my infiltrator ogranisms leaving a pheromone tag for others to follow theory.

108 webevintage  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:27:20pm

re: #73 Tsedek

well, everything that was there could be rebuild but in place of those commercial buildings and along that site - i think it's wrong to build a mosque (or a church, or a synagogue). it should be a place where PEOPLE (and not their religion) should be commemorated.

But the mosque is not being built on ground zero.
You know that...right?

109 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:28:03pm

re: #96 Tsedek

defending americans on dutch and israeli boards

I've never had to be defended against a Dutch or Israeli BROAD

Now the Sicilian broads,, ESPECIALLY the ones from Long Island,, thats a different story!!
///

110 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:28:25pm

A stupid Israeli? Say it ain't so!

111 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:28:35pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

So?

112 avanti  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:28:37pm

re: #102 Charles

Why do they always pop up in groups of two or three?

Yea, socks are just supposed to be a pair.

113 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:28:45pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

Are you really going to try to recycle Pamela Geller lines here?

114 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:29:33pm

re: #112 avanti

Yea, socks are just supposed to be a pair.

Three is understandable when you realize its right foot, left foot, jock strap.

115 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:29:48pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder
Yeah, that is me, busted again.

116 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:29:54pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

A piece of landing gear fell through the roof and went into the basement. The building was abandoned at the time, nobody was inside, nobody died in the Burlington Coat Factory. Buildings for blocks in all directions received significant damage as the amount of energy released was phenomenal, but ground zero is clearly delineated as the area of total devastation, the WTC complex.

117 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:30:51pm

re: #113 Charles

Are you really going to try to recycle Pamela Geller lines here?


LOL, haven't read her in a while. So no.

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:05pm

Why doesn't anyone care if the strip club on the same block was hit by debris on 9/11?

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:15pm

re: #87 Tsedek

Ha! I had it pegged that English was not first language!

Johnny? Tell me what prizes I won...

120 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:36pm

re: #117 filetandrelease

LOL, haven't read her in a while. So no.

You don't need to, because you're echoing exactly what she says

Dumb minds think alike

121 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:44pm

re: #117 filetandrelease

LOL, haven't read her in a while. So no.

So who do you read?

122 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:49pm

re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
An up-ding.

123 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:31:56pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank
I new I had read that some where. Close but no cigar it seems.

124 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #96 Tsedek

that's exactly what i think of you sir.and thank you for saving me the trouble of defending americans on dutch and israeli boards anymore
you've just done me a great favor.

Do you know what Risperdal is?

125 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #120 WindUpBird


Your 1st sentence was worth it

The second one, not so much

126 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:31pm

re: #120 WindUpBird
FU

127 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:33pm

re: #115 filetandrelease

Yeah, that is me, busted again.

Quite.

128 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:43pm

Did this landing gear have special properties -- like some kind of radiation or something, that made every place it touched a "No Muslims" zone for the rest of time?

129 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:32:49pm

re: #87 Tsedek

kiss my (_|_)

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:33:02pm

re: #96 Tsedek

that's exactly what i think of you sir.and thank you for saving me the trouble of defending americans on dutch and israeli boards anymore
you've just done me a great favor.

Oh shit what will we do without your mad internet skills

a great nation mourns for the loss of your valiant efforts, hahahahahahahaha

131 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:33:06pm

re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #122 PhillyPretzel

An up-ding.

Don't.
It only encourages him!

132 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:33:22pm

re: #123 filetandrelease

I new I had read that some where. Close but no cigar it seems.

You new?

133 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:33:39pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

So what... most of the people in lower Manhattan were breathing in the charred dusty remains of humans killed in the planes and the buildings... does that make each one of them some sort of "hallowed" people that we have to treat special?

In that case, dust and debris spread all over everything in the Wall Street-Battery Park-lower Manhattan area. I guess we shouldn't build anything there for the rest of eternity?

Get real.

134 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:33:44pm

re: #118 Charles

Because strip clubs are as American as Mom, apple pie, and closeted politicians with a wide stance. =P

Honestly, all this outcry is just beyond ridiculous now. No one cared until Obama became President. If McCain was in office right now, I'd bet money there wouldn't be nearly this level of wank and idiocy over Park51 at all.

135 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:01pm

re: #132 blueraven

You new?

ruh roh

If the spelling police are in the house,, I'm out!

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:03pm

re: #126 filetandrelease

FU


You know, you smell really fishy and it's not just the filet in your name

137 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:17pm

re: #118 Charles

Because then the whole "sacred ground" farce will fall apart.

Oh, and it's also probably that the owner is a white person.

138 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:21pm

Does this mean that the Pentagon is "sacred"?
Because, you know, there's nothing sacred about warfare...

139 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:32pm

re: #134 Lidane

Because strip clubs are as American as Mom, apple pie, and closeted politicians with a wide stance. =P

Honestly, all this outcry is just beyond ridiculous now. No one cared until Obama became President. If McCain was in office right now, I'd bet money there wouldn't be nearly this level of wank and idiocy over Park51 at all.

So true, it really does feel that people's fears of Muslims and Islam has gone up since Obama has been re-elected.

140 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:34pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

I think the landing gear of one plane went through the roof.

It's two blocks away from Ground Zero.

141 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:34:46pm

re: #96 Tsedek

LOL.
We don't need the likes of you "defending" us.
We can do the job ourselves, thankyewverymuch.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:35:01pm

re: #134 Lidane

Because strip clubs are as American as Mom, apple pie, and closeted politicians with a wide stance. =P

Honestly, all this outcry is just beyond ridiculous now. No one cared until Obama became President. If McCain was in office right now, I'd bet money there wouldn't be nearly this level of wank and idiocy over Park51 at all.

Nobody could have predicted that electing a black president would stir up all the bigots and energize them into peddling their septic waste to everyone who will listen

143 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:35:05pm

Several here have evidently been drinking with Pam.

144 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:35:48pm

re: #135 sattv4u2

ruh roh

If the spelling police are in the house,, I'm out!

That's not a spelling mistake, that is using the wrong word. New does not = Knew

145 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:35:48pm

re: #136 WindUpBird
Just insults? Is that it? Personal attacks? You come off like a toy poodle.

146 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:36:04pm

re: #140 alexknyc

I think the landing gear of one plane went through the roof.

It's two blocks away from Ground Zero.

I'll echo the question Charles asks upthread -- does that landing gear somehow make the entire area in and around the building a Muslim-free zone for the rest of time?

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:36:08pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

So true, it really does feel that people's fears of Muslims and Islam has gone up since Obama has been re-elected.

Feature that, 911 happened 9 years ago, but NOW we're afraid of Muslims and peeing ourselves over landing gear and calling for a clash of civilizations and everyone's losing their minds

what changed, what's different...thinking...thinking

148 Max  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:36:23pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

So true, it really does feel that people's fears of Muslims and Islam has gone up since Obama has been re-elected.

Re-election? Are you from the future?

/

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:36:41pm

re: #145 filetandrelease

Just insults? Is that it? Personal attacks? You come off like a toy poodle.

You don't deserve anything else

You get my leavings, you get my tossoff zings, you're not worth any more effort

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:20pm

re: #146 Lidane

I'll echo the question Charles asks upthread -- does that landing gear somehow make the entire area in and around the building a Muslim-free zone for the rest of time?

I think airplane parts are blessed by a priest before every flight

151 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:25pm

re: #126 filetandrelease

FU

No one gets to talk to WUB like that but me.

152 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:29pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

Feature that, 911 happened 9 years ago, but NOW we're afraid of Muslims and peeing ourselves over landing gear and calling for a clash of civilizations and everyone's losing their minds

what changed, what's different...thinking...thinking

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

153 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:46pm

re: #151 Cato the Elder

No one gets to talk to WUB like that but me.

hee :D

154 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:48pm

re: #144 blueraven

That's not a spelling mistake, that is using the wrong word. New does not = Knew

Nice try, but it's a common "i'm typing quickly and it came out that way" mistake

knew-new
whose-who's
their-there

Happens all the time

Debate the substance, not some piddly error

155 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:37:51pm

re: #148 Max D. Reinhardt

Re-election? Are you from the future?

/

Haha thanks for the catch. I've had a long last few days so pardon the error.

156 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:03pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

Okay, that's some funny shit right there!

157 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:08pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

is that like how David Duke educated you about black people?

158 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:20pm

re: #87 Tsedek

How's the weather in Israel today?

159 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:28pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

What things have people learned about Islam and Muslims in that time?

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:30pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

Nice try, but it's a common "i'm typing quickly and it came out that way" mistake

knew-new
whose-who's
their-there

Happens all the time

Debate the substance, not some piddly error

upding!

161 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:50pm

Perhaps Tsedek should check out this website. [Link: bcs.bedfordstmartins.com...]

162 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:38:54pm

re: #156 Varek Raith

Spencer, Bostom, Geller, and others have been very busily sowing the seeds of this 'education.'

163 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:39:32pm

re: #159 iossarian

What things have people learned about Islam and Muslims in that time?

That the president is one and muslims are evil and don't deserve to worship in their own neighborhoods

Every day brings a new cast of bigoted fools waddling on in here with their diapers full, ready to unload the same old talking point shite here

164 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:02pm

re: #160 WindUpBird

upding!

Thanks, but strange coming from someone that just posted Dumb minds think alike

Sorry ,, just sayin'

165 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:10pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

Feature that, 911 happened 9 years ago, but NOW we're afraid of Muslims and peeing ourselves over landing gear and calling for a clash of civilizations and everyone's losing their minds

what changed, what's different...thinking...thinking

It's awfully funny. I mean Bush for crying out loud had Muslims as part of his administration and there wasn't so much of a peep from these people but the minute Obama is elected and inagurated, we hear about how Obama may or may not be a sekrit Muslim. It's ridiculous bullshit.

166 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:21pm

re: #162 jaunte

Spencer, Bostom, Geller, and others have been very busily sowing the seeds of this 'education.'

Heh, that's what I was thinking: RSU (Robert Spencer University)

167 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:33pm

re: #156 Varek Raith

Okay, that's some funny shit right there!

You think people in the US are less knowledgeable about Islam and its followers today than pre 9/11. Now that is silly.

168 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:44pm

re: #118 Charles

Why doesn't anyone care if the strip club on the same block was hit by debris on 9/11?


I've read some interview quotes from some of the "exotic dancers" from the clubs.

They seem to have a better grasp of the First Amendment than many of our politicians.

169 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:40:59pm

I think it's safe to predict that this weekend's hatefests will thin the ranks of many trolls and sleepers here.

170 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:41:01pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

That the president is one and muslims are evil and don't deserve to worship in their own neighborhoods

Every day brings a new cast of bigoted fools waddling on in here with their diapers full, ready to unload the same old talking point shite here

Your burqa is slipping... you say "shite." We're on to you.

171 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:41:02pm

re: #167 filetandrelease

You think people in the US are less knowledgeable about Islam and its followers today than pre 9/11. Now that is silly.

So tell us: what great insights do people have now that they didn't have before?

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:41:49pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

Yes, they used to have almost no concept at all, now they have a distorted, perverted one...

173 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:41:55pm

re: #167 filetandrelease

You think people in the US are less knowledgeable about Islam and its followers today than pre 9/11. Now that is silly.

Absofreakinglutely.

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:42:14pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Thanks, but strange coming from someone that just posted Dumb minds think alike

Sorry ,, just sayin'


just making the observation that one does not need to read gellar's blog to repeat exactly what she's saying, the talking points about Park 51 and hallowed ground and all that nonsense have hit critical mass, it has saturated the far right, and like duitful doggies, they sit up and say what they're trained to say

I hope that clarifies things

175 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:42:39pm

re: #146 Lidane

I'll echo the question Charles asks upthread -- does that landing gear somehow make the entire area in and around the building a Muslim-free zone for the rest of time?

Of course not.

176 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:43:32pm

re: #87 Tsedek

you're all dumb ass americans. i live in israel and am active on many international forums and you are the fucking only ones who are short headed and cannot comprehend anything that goes beyond your I.Q.

(and to think that I defend americans everywhere... phew.. you sure make me doubt and think that i was wrong defending that small headness you are all blamed to have on european and israeli boards)

Updinged as a rich source of rotating titles.

177 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:43:37pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

Nice try, but it's a common "i'm typing quickly and it came out that way" mistake

knew-new
whose-who's
their-there

Happens all the time

Debate the substance, not some piddly error

Thanks for the advice, but what I post is not really up to you. It bugs me, so I posted it. I have been busted when I made grammatical or spelling mistakes too. Deal with it.

178 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:44:02pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

I don't think that's the case.

I think people are just as ignorant about Islam as they were on 9/10/01. There's just a lot more fear and anger now.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:45:36pm

re: #167 filetandrelease

You think people in the US are less knowledgeable about Islam and its followers today than pre 9/11. Now that is silly.

Yes, actually I am saying that, precisely.

Because garbage spewing children like you take a dump on the discourse, flinging your waste around, and gullible people who are scared and angry pick it up and think it's the truth. That;s your education. This knowledge you speak of, it's the knowledge that klansmen teach. it's the knowledge that the EDL teaches. it's the knowledge of racism and divisiveness and paranoia.

You're just another unoriginal nativist right wing stenographer, like so many who come here, just another empty head, an empty vessel for hatred spreading hateful and vicious talking points around the internet

180 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:46:05pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Updinged as a rich source of rotating titles.

Just added:

You sure make me doubt and think that i was wrong defending that small headness

181 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:46:11pm

The idea that US citizens are less knowledgeable today about Islam than pre 9/11 is ridiculous.

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

182 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:46:30pm

Robert Spencer is in his glory now.

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:47:39pm

re: #87 Tsedek

you're all dumb ass americans. i live in israel and am active on many international forums and you are the fucking only ones who are short headed and cannot comprehend anything that goes beyond your I.Q.

(and to think that I defend americans everywhere... phew.. you sure make me doubt and think that i was wrong defending that small headness you are all blamed to have on european and israeli boards)

I don't care where you live, you can live on the moon for all I care, you have no idea what you're talking about

Anyone who brags about commenting on forums, like you're doing us a favor? Like that's a real hard thing to do? probably doesn't have much else going on in their life

It's like me bragging that I had a hamburger

184 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:00pm

How many Americans are aware of the difference between Islam and Islamism, and of those, how many think there is no difference?

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:01pm

re: #180 Charles

Just added:

I CAN SEE FOREVER

186 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:04pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

The idea that US citizens are less knowledgeable today about Islam than pre 9/11 is ridiculous.

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

I read the Koran before 9/11.

I teach history.

I still have to tell people the difference between the Sufis and al-Qaeda.

People are more afraid and angry but still have the same lack of information.

187 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:27pm

re: #177 blueraven

but what I post is not really up to you.

Two way street, and all that!

188 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:28pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

The idea that US citizens are less knowledgeable today about Islam than pre 9/11 is ridiculous.

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

So what did reading the Koran teach you about Islam and Muslims? We are all ears.

189 elbruce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:33pm

re: #170 Walter L. Newton

Your burqa is slipping... you say "shite." We're on to you.

English people wear burqas? Who knew?

OT just for fun: FOX News Porn

190 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:45pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

What did you learn about Islam?

191 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:48:53pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

The idea that US citizens are less knowledgeable today about Islam than pre 9/11 is ridiculous.

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

It's true, because piles of shit like you keep spreading misinformation

You're just another talking point, just another bumper sticker

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:49:08pm

re: #188 iossarian

So what did reading the Koran teach you about Islam and Muslims? We are all ears.

this oughta be good

193 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:49:40pm

re: #179 WindUpBird
OH, what knowledge of mine are you refering? This garbage I spewed? Or are just an assuming bigot that because I may disagree with you that makes me an asshole.

I suspect the latter.

194 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:49:42pm

re: #189 elbruce

English people wear burqas? Who knew?

OT just for fun: FOX News Porn


[Video]

Bruce - your humor meter is evidently broken - there is no fun in...

195 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:49:46pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

What did you learn about Islam?

What I've learned is that landing gear has magical properties that repel muslims

sorta like vampires and garlic

196 Stanghazi  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:16pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

We're getting closer, closer...

197 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:17pm

re: #193 filetandrelease

OH, what knowledge of mine are you refering? This garbage I spewed? Or are just an assuming bigot that because I may disagree with you that makes me an asshole.

I suspect the latter.

You're not really on the level of asshole, you don't really seem to have the horsepower

Just a talking point, just another t-shirt

198 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:30pm

BBL, now that this has turned into a mosh pit!

199 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:39pm

re: #196 Stanley Sea

We're getting closer, closer...

Give us some sugar filet! Let's get to the meaty center! :D

200 elbruce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:48pm

re: #167 filetandrelease

You think people in the US are less knowledgeable about Islam and its followers today than pre 9/11. Now that is silly.

The total information hasn't increased much, but the total misinformation has increased dramatically. So I'd say yes. It's better to not know anything than to believe strongly in things that are false. At lease in the former case you're still capable of learning.

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:50:50pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

BBL, now that this has turned into a mosh pit!

ahahahahah sorry :D

202 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:51:03pm

re: #187 sattv4u2

but what I post is not really up to you.

Two way street, and all that!

Absolutely...I am not telling you what to post either. Just defending my right to post what I want to as long as it is not against LGF policy.
Carry on.

203 KenJen  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:51:16pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

The idea that US citizens are less knowledgeable today about Islam than pre 9/11 is ridiculous.

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

I'm still trying to figure out Muslims wear flip flops in the winter.

204 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:51:55pm

re: #181 filetandrelease

How many here read the Koran after 9/11? Me for one. Here, raise your hand if you know less about Islam today than pre 9/'11, yeah.

So which translation did you read? Did you read anything besides the Qur'an? How many imams have you spoken to? Scratch that—how many Muslims have you sat down and discussed what you read with?

205 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:51:55pm

WindUpBird and I are rarely on the same side of an issue.

That we agree here should tell people something.

Unfortunately, the people who need to hear it are the least likely to listen.

206 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:52:39pm

re: #205 alexknyc

WindUpBird and I are rarely on the same side of an issue.

That we agree here should tell people something.

Unfortunately, the people who need to hear it are the least likely to listen.

it's true!

I think we agree on many matters, just not the ones that people tend to deal with on contentious political blogs ;-)

207 elbruce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:53:00pm

re: #202 blueraven

Absolutely...I am not telling you what to post either. Just defending my right to post what I want to as long as it is not against LGF policy.
Carry on.

The second sentence is grammatically incorrect, as it's missing a subject. That should read "I'm just defending my right..."

208 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:53:16pm

re: #197 WindUpBird
And you are just a windup bird of the far left, a poster child for the elitist condesending talking heads that screw up any message of significance the far left has to offer.

209 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:53:28pm

Barack Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein
Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Hussein Obama

I rest my case.

210 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:54:05pm

re: #208 filetandrelease

What did you learn about Islam?

211 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:54:16pm

Newterdammerung

Do you want to see a primer on the Clash of Civilizations and the coming Islam-fueled Armeggedon hosted by a disgraced & philandering former politician and his third and current trophy wife? If that's a movie you need to see,

212 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:54:33pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

What did you learn about Islam?

I sadly doubt we are going to get an answer to this question.

213 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:55:14pm

re: #208 filetandrelease

He's really not that far left.

So, no.

There is a small subset of Americans who have increased their knowledge of Muslims after 9/11.

There is a larger set of Americans who have learned a bunch of bullshit and misinformation about Muslims after 9/11.

There is another set who have learned accurate things about Wahabist Muslims, and then made the monumentally idiotic mistake of thinking that knowledge applies to non-Wahabist Muslims.

If I remember correctly, you're of the latter variety.

214 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:55:22pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

you can find it on YouTube...

215 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:55:53pm

re: #212 iossarian

I sadly doubt we are going to get an answer to this question.

I know.
I suspect what his answer is, he's just too afraid to just say it.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:56:21pm

re: #208 filetandrelease

And you are just a windup bird of the far left, a poster child for the elitist condesending talking heads that screw up any message of significance the far left has to offer.

hahaha you are so bad at internet

here's a little advice from me to you, if you want to try and strike back, don't repeat my own tactics against me, because that just makes you look like you have no imagination, like you're a parrot, I know you are but what am I, etc

What you want to do is shift the subject a bit, regroup, and start drawing me off my subject and thus off balance, and then I start playing your game, because right now you're playing mine

What you just did here is just headbutt my shield, the most obvious and predictable move

217 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:57:06pm

re: #208 filetandrelease

and what did you learn about Islam?

I mean, you're talking up your knowledge, let's hear some of it

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:57:30pm

re: #213 Obdicut

I'm so far left I vote for the occasional republican!

219 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:57:41pm

re: #215 Varek Raith

I learned about Muslims through this:

Muslim, the Musical:

Seriously, everyone watch this. This is fucking hilarious.

220 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:57:50pm

re: #200 elbruce
Now that may be. (a lot of false information) But a lot of accurate information as well. I stand by my statement that in general people in this country no more (LOOK, A TYPO!!) about Islam. Do not forget how low the level of knowledge was pre 9/11.

221 Stanghazi  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:57:52pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

Newterdammerung

Do you want to see a primer on the Clash of Civilizations and the coming Islam-fueled Armeggedon hosted by a disgraced & philandering former politician and his third and current trophy wife? If that's a movie you need to see,


[Video]

Oh great. Don't you just get the feeling from Newt that he has our best interests in mind? No? Neither do I.

They are pushing the fear and destruction theme to make money and get back in power. Slimy.

222 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:58:40pm

re: #213 Obdicut

There is another set who have learned accurate things about Wahabist Muslims, and then made the monumentally idiotic mistake of thinking that knowledge applies to non-Wahabist Muslims.

They also like to overlook the fact that the Saudi Royal family supports Wahabist schools and that they are still ostensibly our "allies" in the WOT.

223 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:58:52pm

re: #221 Stanley Sea

Oh great. Don't you just get the feeling from Newt that he has our best interests in mind? No? Neither do I.

They are pushing the fear and destruction theme to make money and get back in power. Slimy.

His wife is some sort of non-blinking robot.

224 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:59:13pm

re: #213 Obdicut
Nope, not me. But the ones to watch.

225 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:59:16pm

re: #220 filetandrelease

Now that may be. (a lot of false information) But a lot of accurate information as well. I stand by my statement that in general people in this country no more (LOOK, A TYPO!!) about Islam. Do not forget how low the level of knowledge was pre 9/11.

tell us what information you believe is accurate about Islam. tell us what you think you've learned.

You won't do this, because it'll reveal you're uninformed. You won't do it because you know the actual muslim here will tear you a spare asshole and stuff the rest of you up it

226 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:59:48pm

re: #218 WindUpBird

I'm so far left I vote for the occasional republican!

Anyone we know in this country :)

227 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:59:58pm

re: #222 ralphieboy

They also like to overlook the fact that the Saudi Royal family supports Wahabist schools and that they are still ostensibly our "allies" in the WOT.

F the Saudis.

I'll drive out of my way to go to a Citgo for gas.

Hugo Chavez may be a douchebag but my gas money isn't being used to try to kill me.

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:00:12pm

re: #224 filetandrelease

Nope, not me. But the ones to watch.

I just can't help but notice you claim knowledge but refuse to display it

Maybe that's because you're not actually possessed of knowledge

229 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:00:13pm

re: #219 Obdicut

I learned about Muslims through this:

Muslim, the Musical:

[Video]

Seriously, everyone watch this. This is fucking hilarious.

Hahahahaha

230 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:00:50pm

re: #217 WindUpBird
Yeah, you are the one here to have a level headed conversation. LOL

231 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:00:59pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

Newterdammerung

Do you want to see a primer on the Clash of Civilizations and the coming Islam-fueled Armeggedon hosted by a disgraced & philandering former politician and his third and current trophy wife? If that's a movie you need to see,


[Video]

Yikes. Newt and trophy have an extra-creepy androidish thing going on there. That's gonna haunt my dreams.

232 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:01:28pm

re: #230 filetandrelease

You keep dodging our question.
You're a coward.

233 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:01:35pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

Anyone we know in this country :)

Gordon Smith, Slade Gorton are the big ones, some republicans in local races I'd have to look up because city council members aren't exactly top of mind

234 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:02:15pm

re: #233 WindUpBird

Gordon Smith, Slade Gorton are the big ones, some republicans in local races I'd have to look up because city council members aren't exactly top of mind

It was a joke Windy.

235 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:02:41pm

re: #229 CuriousLurker

Hahahahaha

Nothing like a seriously gay Lebanese-American Muslim doing a showtune to give a little perspective on things.

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:02:51pm

re: #230 filetandrelease

Yeah, you are the one here to have a level headed conversation. LOL


So you really won't tell us what you know about islam, will you?

Pretty weak there, but that's to be expected

237 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:03:07pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

It was a joke Windy.

it's cool

238 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:03:46pm

re: #235 Obdicut

Nothing like a seriously gay Lebanese-American Muslim doing a showtune to give a little perspective on things.

In the words of Johnny Cash, "powerful gay!"

239 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:03:48pm

In the meantime, if you have an iPhone, this new Spider-Man game is completely made of awesome.

[Link: click.linksynergy.com...]

240 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:04:14pm

re: #231 Charles

I'm surprised they didn't go further and show beheadings. Then again that may have confused people who think mexicans in arizona do that.

241 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:04:32pm

I voted for Ron Paul in 1988. I also listened to poison and wore Spuds McKenzie T shirts

242 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:04:43pm

re: #232 Varek Raith

You keep dodging our question.
You're a coward.

Please reread what I wrote, my personal knowledge of Islam is irrelevant to my point.

Pile on all you want. I ain't playin'. I have had many conversations here over the last few years alone regarding Islam. You might be surprised what that teaches.

243 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:04:59pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

it's cool

Yes... currently 62 degrees (f) up here... back to work, had four days off, they loaded my 20 hours this week on the weekends, so, I've had a easy week... but back to the cash register in a few minutes.

244 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:05:25pm

re: #102 Charles

Why do they always pop up in groups of two or three?

GIVE ME COVERING FIRE!

I CAN'T TAKE IT THE FACTS ARE COMING IN TOO HARD AND FAST!

245 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:05:52pm

re: #231 Charles

"Just eyes"

246 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:05:56pm

re: #231 Charles

Yikes. Newt and trophy have an extra-creepy androidish thing going on there. That's gonna haunt my dreams.

Newt's donations to the Stepford Institute have really paid off.

247 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:06:09pm

re: #239 Charles

Oh yow! I may have to pick that up, how are the controls?

I've been revisitng my childhood with Phantasy Star 2 on the ipod: [Link: itunes.apple.com...]

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:06:26pm

re: #241 Amory Blaine

I voted for Ron Paul in 1988. I also listened to poison and wore Spuds McKenzie T shirts

ahahahahahahahaha

That was my first concert, Poison :D

249 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:06:40pm

re: #244 jamesfirecat

If the man in front of you with the rifle dies you will pick up the rifle and continue moving forward.

250 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:06:47pm

re: #242 filetandrelease

Please reread what I wrote, my personal knowledge of Islam is irrelevant to my point.

Pile on all you want. I ain't playin'. I have had many conversations here over the last few years alone regarding Islam. You might be surprised what that teaches.

People have learned a lot about Islam, but the content of that knowledge is irrelevant to your point.

Weak. Sauce.

251 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:07:19pm

re: #242 filetandrelease

Please reread what I wrote, my personal knowledge of Islam is irrelevant to my point.

Pile on all you want. I ain't playin'. I have had many conversations here over the last few years alone regarding Islam. You might be surprised what that teaches.

You come here and assert knowledge, but you don't actally display it

252 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:07:25pm

re: #248 WindUpBird

ahahahahahahahaha

That was my first concert, Poison :D

Iron Maiden with Anthrax as the opening act.

253 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:07:37pm

re: #242 filetandrelease

Please reread what I wrote, my personal knowledge of Islam is irrelevant to my point.

Pile on all you want. I ain't playin'. I have had many conversations here over the last few years alone regarding Islam. You might be surprised what that teaches.

So, surprise me.
What have you learned about Islam?

254 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:07:41pm

re: #250 iossarian

People have learned a lot about Islam, but the content of that knowledge is irrelevant to your point.

Weak. Sauce.

I'd have used "accuracy" instead of "content" but the point remains the same.

255 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:07:54pm

re: #252 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Iron Maiden with Anthrax as the opening act.

You;re a good person *_*

256 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:08:21pm

re: #238 WindUpBird

In the words of Johnny Cash, "powerful gay!"

"Them derringer bullets are weak."

"Powerful weak."

257 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:08:30pm

re: #239 Charles

In the meantime, if you have an iPhone, this new Spider-Man game is completely made of awesome.

[Link: click.linksynergy.com...]

So that will work on the Ipod Touch I purchased this week. It's a 8 gig 2nd generation.

FYI - The newest Ipod Touch is almost ready to hit the stores, and if you look carefully, there are some deals to be had on some of the 2nd generation Ipod Touch... Staples had the one I purchase on sale for 168.00... that's cheaper than a refurbished one from Apple after shipping.

And you get a free upgrade to the OS (4.0) which is the same software running in the Iphone.

258 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:08:44pm

re: #235 Obdicut

Nothing like a seriously gay Lebanese-American Muslim doing a showtune to give a little perspective on things.

Amen to that! That one's a keeper.

259 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:10:46pm

re: #255 WindUpBird

You;re a good person *_*

Day on the Green in the Bay Area...The best concerts of all time...Everybody played there

260 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:10:59pm

I would rather submit to Islam than to Callista Gingrich.

261 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:11:08pm

re: #252 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

my favorite concert of all time was seeing Rob Halford (when he was solo with his band Fight) open for Queensryche who opened for Iron Maiden. It was in an outdoor Amphitheater and I was seated eye level with the stage right at the sweet spot for the sound.

262 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:11:34pm

OK, filetandrelease (if that is your real name...)

Which of the following statements do you believe to be true (multiple answers allowed):

A) Islam specifically calls for violence against non-believers in a way that, say, Christianity does not

B) There is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim"

C) It is impossible to be both a "true Muslim" and a patriotic American

?

263 TedStriker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:12:45pm

re: #87 Tsedek

y'r ll dmb ss mrcns. lv n srl nd m ctv n mn ntrntnl frms nd y r th fckng nl ns wh r shrt hdd nd cnnt cmprhnd nythng tht gs bynd yr .Q. (nd t thnk tht dfnd mrcns vrywhr... phw.. y sr mk m dbt nd thnk tht ws wrng dfndng tht smll hdnss y r ll blmd t hv n rpn nd srl brds)

Nice way to completely pigeonhole every Lizard into a position that is completely erroneous...

/LGF Class of 2004...hmmm

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:13:08pm

re: #259 HoosierHoops

Day on the Green in the Bay Area...The best concerts of all time...Everybody played there

I've seen the lineups! There was one show that was Queensryche and Faith No More. WHAT A CONCERT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN

265 Winny Spencer  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:13:19pm

re: #260 Cato the Elder

I disagree.

266 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:13:36pm

re: #262 iossarian

OK, filetandrelease (if that is your real name...)

Which of the following statements do you believe to be true (multiple answers allowed):

A) Islam specifically calls for violence against non-believers in a way that, say, Christianity does not

B) There is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim"

C) It is impossible to be both a "true Muslim" and a patriotic American

?

D) Is there any difference between Islam and Islamism?

267 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:13:42pm
268 iossarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:13:55pm

OOPS! Got to go - great weekends everybody.

269 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:14:15pm

re: #263 talon_262

Nice way to completely pigeonhole every Lizard into a position that is completely erroneous...

/LGF Class of 2004...hmmm

**SLAP**

270 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:14:26pm

re: #261 Dreggas

my favorite concert of all time was seeing Rob Halford (when he was solo with his band Fight) open for Queensryche who opened for Iron Maiden. It was in an outdoor Amphitheater and I was seated eye level with the stage right at the sweet spot for the sound.

Fight was a cool band :D Also, his industrial rock band Two was pretty great

271 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:14:27pm

re: #262 iossarian

OK, filetandrelease (if that is your real name...)

Which of the following statements do you believe to be true (multiple answers allowed):

A) Islam The Old Testament specifically calls for violence against non-believers in a way that, say, Christianity does not

B) There is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim Snake handling preacher"

C) It is impossible to be both a "true Muslim Mormon" and a patriotic American

?


//

272 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:14:44pm

To work... BB later this evening.

273 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:15:20pm

Gallup has called everyday this week.
Can't they take a hint?

274 TedStriker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:17:10pm

re: #96 Tsedek

Why do I think that you might be a Kahanist (or symaptixze with them)?

275 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:17:10pm

I encounter a lot of sites where people explain that peaceful, non-violent Muslims are not "true Muslims".

Which is exactly what many radical Imams also maintain.

Deranged minds think alike, I guess.

276 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:17:18pm

re: #264 WindUpBird

I've seen the lineups! There was one show that was Queensryche and Faith No More. WHAT A CONCERT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN

I saw Dio and Queensryche in San Jose...Blew the house down..4 of driving home singing, If you are going to die..die with your boots on! And rainbow in the dark...Fun days

277 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:20:06pm

re: #276 HoosierHoops

I saw Dio and Queensryche in San Jose...Blew the house down..4 of driving home singing, If you are going to die..die with your boots on! And rainbow in the dark...Fun days

Saw Motorhead, Dio and Iron Maiden together a few years ago.

278 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:20:52pm

re: #267 Dreggas

O/T but I just don't know how to describe this

The presentation makes Martinez look bad, but I can't help liking her. She's tough. There's been so much corruption in the Richardson administration, I can't see prolonging it with Denish.

279 pharmmajor  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:21:36pm

Wrote my own little piece about the insanity that's coming tomorrow, with a link to dragonfire1981's excellent post:
[Link: thatguywiththeglasses.com...]

280 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:24:22pm

re: #277 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Saw Motorhead, Dio and Iron Maiden together a few years ago.

Saw Clapton...And two years ago saw at Verizon John Cougar Mellonhead...
I love music..Saw Canned Heat 5 times..LOL

281 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #22 Charles

Man, there's a real chorus of chattering monkeys on Twitter who love to retweet nasty stuff about me. Why they got to go all up in there and do me like that?

There's a FreedomWorks Teabagger blog convention, and "Ace of Spades" is talking smack. The comment that's supposed to destroy my will to live:

Yawn. Also, this knee-slapper about Conor Friedersdorf:

Now that's some good quality right wing funny!

Attacking folks like Conor Friedersdorf is a really stupid move on the right. He's a conservative-leaning libertarian who would gladly be part of a current right-wing movement if it wasn't going off the rails into the land of extremism.

282 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:25:39pm

Just Tweeted by Arnold Schwarzenegger:

[Link: twitpic.com...]

The caption is priceless:

Over Anchorage, AK. Looking everywhere but can't see Russia from here. Will keep you updated as search continues.

Heh.

283 Bill Jefferson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:30:50pm

1. I'm glad the NYT has the layers of editorial control the blogosphere is missing, or they might misspell the name of the project as "Parc51" and might not notice the incorrect memory that had the North tower falling first. Oh wait...

2. Within a couple years after 9/11, I did a report on the Cordoba caliphate. On the one hand it would be nothing like the caliphate Osama bin Laden wanted -- far too much intermixing with the infidels, plus graven images and otherwise a lot of stuff that would not be allowed by fundies. Yet it was also a sign of Muslim conquest in Christian Europe, and I can see why the original name of the project, much less its planned opening on the tenth anniversary of the attacks, would seem to be, shall we say, insensitive, especially in a context of there being so little progress in rebuilding.

Which is why it doesn't matter that there was a prayer room on the 17th floor of the South tower, or a mosque two blocks in this direction or three in that direction that have been there x years and y years. It matters that men with very legitimately questionable positions want to build what could easily be seen as, and what I argue may well be meant as, the sort of statement of Islamic conquest that had been seen from the Dome of the Rock to the Hagia Sophia.

Just as burning a flag is both the prescribed way to respectfully dispose of a worn emblem or emblematic of revolution, depending on context, so building a place of worship (and culinary school, etc.) can be done in the context of being part of a community, or in the context of not being here to be equal but to rule. Mr. Rauf is my equal, a fellow citizen with a right to worship or not worship in accord with his own beliefs, and to obey the rules his beliefs entail so long as doing so does not tread on my rights. But I don't think he's happy being equal.

That we don't have the right not to be offended, that we can't proscribe insensitivity, is a good lesson for all of us. Christians among us may recall Jesus' counsel to turn the other check when once slapped. But that doesn't mean we should confuse a double slap with greeting kisses.

284 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:31:57pm

re: #87 Tsedek

you're all dumb ass americans...and you are the fucking only ones who are short headed and cannot comprehend anything that goes beyond your I.Q.

Isn't it impossible, by definition, to "comprehend anything that goes beyond your IQ?"

And goodbye.

285 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:33:01pm

What comes after "Holy effing Shit!" because that is what I should be saying here...

My neighbor caty-corner across the street was just out ranting into the phone at the top of his lungs, even as his wife was trying to get him to shut-up. Apparently he does not approve of the people his daughter has been dating judging by his screaming into the phone about how she is a Ni**er Lover repeatedly.

He then proceeded to tell her she never would know how to satisfy a real man since she could not even keep a "Monkey" happy for more than a month at a time. He further went on to tell her that he never wanted to see her and that she better not dare to show up at their house.

Wow, and here I thought my dad was hardassed...I guess I should be glad he isn't also a racist prick. Sounds like she was just asking for a place to stay for a little bit after falling out with her latest boyfriend, how sad is that?

286 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #283 Bill Jefferson

Jesus had a checking account? News to me.

287 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:34:06pm

re: #283 Bill Jefferson

much less its planned opening on the tenth anniversary of the attacks, would seem to be, shall we say, insensitive, especially in a context of there being so little progress in rebuilding.

You do know that part isn't true, right?

It matters that men with very legitimately questionable positions

Who are these men?

want to build what could easily be seen as, and what I argue may well be meant as, the sort of statement of Islamic conquest that had been seen from the Dome of the Rock to the Hagia Sophia.

IT WAS A BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY!

288 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:35:38pm

OK, I gave it a shot. Just briefly, and a very broad short over view not intended to be guide, just a short version of some of the things I have learned about Islam.

Islam is a fractious religion similar to Christianity in that regard. It splintered early after Mohammads death in the 6th? Century with followers following different Imans. Some of these fractions became and are still violent. Islam spread with the sword particularly in the early days but often was benevolent to those conquered. Though often a special tax was levied on the non believers.
The religion at some point adopted certain Arabic traditions such as the head dress for woman.
Islam in its zenith had a tradition of study inspired by the words of Mohamand, in later years these same words would be used to change worldly studies to study of the Koran. (Quran) With some students reaching a high level of respect by being able to recite the entire book.
In recent history many Muslims have tried to no avail to revert this particular tradition, most notably, that past President of Indonesia. A hundred or so years ago there was a serious effort to reform, it failed.
There is no distinction in most Islamic countries between their religion and government.
Sharia law practice by Muslims comes from books that were early interpretations of the Koran. Sharia in its absolute form is barbaric. (The recent efforts to stone a woman to death in Tehran)
Naturally due to Islam’s expansion there was and is much friction between Islam and Christianity. With early Caliphates making deep in roads into Europe (Constantinople, Spain, etc…) this brought on the Crusades and much animus still exists by both sides as a consequence.

289 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:35:58pm

re: #118 Charles

Why doesn't anyone care if the strip club on the same block was hit by debris on 9/11?

I don't go to strip clubs much anymore. But next time I'm in NYC, maybe I should visit the one you refer to. It is on hallowed ground, after all.

290 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:37:05pm

re: #262 iossarian
Are any of those true?

291 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:37:06pm

re: #287 Obdicut

You do know that part isn't true, right?

Who are these men?

IT WAS A BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY!

But, but Burlington Coat Factory is a revered, even sacred, cut rate outlet for Chinese made leather goods, they have becoming integral to the "American Way."

///

292 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:38:08pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

So well educated that one-fifth of America thinks that the Christian Barack Obama is really "one of them."

293 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:38:24pm

re: #288 filetandrelease

Illiterate fool is illiterate.

294 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:38:34pm

re: #267 Dreggas

O/T but I just don't know how to describe this

3rd-party character assassination?

295 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:39:08pm

re: #288 filetandrelease

Thank you for displaying a typical amount of ignorance and idiocy about Islam. You disproved your point well.

I like how you talk about how it was a fractious religion, and then go on to treat it as monolithic for the rest of your rant.

296 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:43:53pm

re: #295 Obdicut

Thank you for displaying a typical amount of ignorance and idiocy about Islam. You disproved your point well.

I like how you talk about how it was a fractious religion, and then go on to treat it as monolithic for the rest of your rant.

Come on everyone knows that a Sunni is the same as a Shiite and that Sufi's are even worse!

/Kind of like how everyone automatically blames Southern Baptists for the pedophilia rampant in the Catholic church. (What do you mean they don't? Why the hell not?)

297 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:44:02pm

re: #295 Obdicut

My rant?

298 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:46:16pm

Some news we can all salute, I'm sure: Honoring A Hero

Sept. 10) -- The White House announced today that President Barack Obama will award the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration, to an Army sergeant who will be the first living soldier to receive the honor since the Vietnam War.

The president personally called Staff Sgt. Salvatore Giunta, an Army specialist in Afghanistan at the time the events took place, to let him know of the decision, the White House said in a statement. He was awarded the medal for placing his life in danger when he and fellow paratroopers were ambushed by the Taliban in 2007.

__________________

ACTION FROM WHICH THE MEDAL OF HONOR WAS EARNED:

Then-Specialist Salvatore A. Giunta distinguished himself by acts of gallantry at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a rifle team leader with Company B, 2d Battalion (Airborne), 503d Infantry Regiment during combat operations against an armed enemy in the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan on October 25, 2007.

When an insurgent force ambush split Specialist Giunta's squad into two groups, he exposed himself to enemy fire to pull a comrade back to cover. Later, while engaging the enemy and attempting to link up with the rest of his squad, Specialist Giunta noticed two insurgents carrying away a fellow soldier. He immediately engaged the enemy, killing one and wounding the other, and provided medical aid to his wounded comrade while the rest of his squad caught up and provided security. His courage and leadership while under extreme enemy fire were integral to his platoon's ability defeat an enemy ambush and recover a fellow American paratrooper from enemy hands.

__________________________________

Thank you for your service, Sgt. Giunta.

All Americans are deeply grateful for your heroic actions, gallantry, and selflessness in defending the nation, our way of life, and our shared beliefs.

.

299 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:46:46pm

Well, about what I expected, just some petty insults.

300 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:47:07pm

re: #289 palomino

I don't go to strip clubs much anymore. But next time I'm in NYC, maybe I should visit the one you refer to. It is on hallowed ground, after all.

How many strip clubs can say that? It actually makes you holier to go there.

301 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:47:13pm

re: #297 filetandrelease

My rant?

Sorry. Your rambling, inaccurate blather.

I liked the bit about how a hundred years ago apparently someone tried to reform the entirety of Islam and failed. That was especially good.

And how you think the Crusades were in reaction to Muslim conquests in Europe. That part alone is such a deep well of ignorance.

Here's a hint: The Crusades were not launched against the Muslims in Spain.

302 Lidane  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:47:57pm

re: #295 Obdicut

Thank you for displaying a typical amount of ignorance and idiocy about Islam.

Seconded. I haven't seen that much misinformation in one place since Crazy Pam's last bit of shrieking.

303 filetandrelease  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:52:01pm

re: #301 Obdicut

Don't be so pompous, the crusades were launched against the expansion of Islam into the holy land. Did not mean to imply they were launched against Spain or Europe.

304 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:53:14pm

re: #298 Dad O' Blondes

Don't you dare assume that I share a way of life or any beliefs with you, period boy.

305 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 2:56:10pm

re: #303 filetandrelease

Don't be so pompous, the crusades were launched against the expansion of Islam into the holy land. Did not mean to imply they were launched against Spain or Europe.

Oh really?

With early Caliphates making deep in roads into Europe (Constantinople, Spain, etc…) this brought on the Crusades

Get your lame-ass story straight.

By the way, Constantinople didn't fall to Muslims until the 15th century. It did get sacked by the Crusaders, though.

306 JRCMYP  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:00:50pm

So, there was a prayer room inside the south tower.

There is a prayer room planned for Park51.

Opponents call Park51 a "mosque." Does that mean the south tower was a mosque too?

307 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:07:08pm

re: #306 JRCMYP

So, there was a prayer room inside the south tower.

There is a prayer room planned for Park51.

Opponents call Park51 a "mosque." Does that mean the south tower was a mosque too?

That's right.

By that logic, the terrorists took down a mosque on 9/11.

And now Geller and Spencer want to do the same thing!!1!

They're on the same side as Al Qaeda!!!11!

308 Winny Spencer  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:07:53pm

Obdicut, I don't know where you find the energy, but you're great.

309 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:11:32pm

re: #288 filetandrelease

OK, I gave it a shot. Just briefly, and a very broad short over view not intended to be guide, just a short version of some of the things I have learned about Islam.

Islam is a fractious religion similar to Christianity in that regard. It splintered early after Mohammads death in the 6th? Century with followers following different Imans. Some of these fractions became and are still violent. Islam spread with the sword particularly in the early days but often was benevolent to those conquered. Though often a special tax was levied on the non believers.
The religion at some point adopted certain Arabic traditions such as the head dress for woman.
Islam in its zenith had a tradition of study inspired by the words of Mohamand, in later years these same words would be used to change worldly studies to study of the Koran. (Quran) With some students reaching a high level of respect by being able to recite the entire book.
In recent history many Muslims have tried to no avail to revert this particular tradition, most notably, that past President of Indonesia. A hundred or so years ago there was a serious effort to reform, it failed.
There is no distinction in most Islamic countries between their religion and government.
Sharia law practice by Muslims comes from books that were early interpretations of the Koran. Sharia in its absolute form is barbaric. (The recent efforts to stone a woman to death in Tehran)
Naturally due to Islam’s expansion there was and is much friction between Islam and Christianity. With early Caliphates making deep in roads into Europe (Constantinople, Spain, etc…) this brought on the Crusades and much animus still exists by both sides as a consequence.

You got about 20% correct, at best.

310 alexknyc  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:20:30pm

re: #303 filetandrelease

Don't be so pompous, the crusades were launched against the expansion of Islam into the holy land. Did not mean to imply they were launched against Spain or Europe.

Actually, the Crusades were launched because the Byzantines asked for help against the Seljuk Turks. Pope Urban II also claimed that the Turks had thrown Christian pilgrims out of Jerusalem.

311 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:21:44pm

re: #309 CuriousLurker

You got about 20% correct, at best.

He read a Bobby Spencer book once, apparently.

312 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:24:20pm

re: #310 alexknyc

Actually, the Crusades were launched because the Byzantines asked for help against the Seljuk Turks

And what a problematic decision that turned out to be.

It's funny; a lot of people don't realize how successful the Crusades were, that there really were Crusader Kingdoms in the Middle east for awhile, including the Kingdom of Jerusalem

Fascinating stuff.

313 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:25:07pm

re: #311 Cato the Elder

He read a Bobby Spencer book once, apparently.

With maybe a little Daniel Pipes sprinkled on top.

314 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:39:37pm

re: #304 Cato the Elder

Don't you dare assume that I share a way of life or any beliefs with you, period boy.

You're right.

It was presumptuous of me -- or any one -- to assume that you, Cato the Elder, would join in honoring the valiant service of Sgt. Giunta.

Please return to honoring yourself, and please don't stop your grade school call-out postings and nearly-snide, but not quite, personal comments.

. (that one's for you)

.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:41:49pm

re: #5 Max D. Reinhardt

Believe it or not Pamella, Osama bin Laden was very pleased with destroying that prayer room and the modern Muslims who prayed in it.

The same Muslims who prayed in that room are the same Muslims who would pray in Park51.

Financial district types, who take time out of their day to pray and consider the things of God.

Ideal conservatives, some folks might say.

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:42:41pm

re: #15 Thin blue line

And of course all were welcomed into the chapel area of WTC tower II to bow before the cross! Oh wait there was not chapel...

Never Forget...

"Tolerance should not be taken"

WTF?

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:46:31pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

It's several blocks away. But hitting a skyscraper at full flying speed has a seriously negative impact on a plane's structural stability.

Apparently part of the landing gear ended up flying several blocks and struck the Burlington Building. I doubt it was the farthest fragments of plane went.

318 Cineaste  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:53:21pm

I think it would be fantastic if all the drag queens from the pride parade went to Geller's anti-mosque demonstration tomorrow in their most over-the-top gear and "joined" her demonstration by carrying signs saying the Mosque is inappropriate at ground zero. It would be so wonderfully subversive. The wing-nuts' heads would cave in....

319 kvinay  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:23:29pm

m n mrcn ndn hnd. m vstng LGF ftr whl whch ws nc n f my fv sts. Shckd t s th chng n chrls stnc. Dd wk nd ggl srch nd m cnvncd Chrls s nthr psd sclr Dhmm. Wll nvr rcmmnd r vst LGF gn. f h hs prblm wth th rght thts fn bt why sympthz wth RP thgs. lwys rmmbr " dd mslm s gd mslm".

320 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:26:25pm

re: #319 kvinay

m n mrcn ndn hnd. m vstng LGF ftr whl whch ws nc n f my fv sts. Shckd t s th chng n chrls stnc. Dd wk nd ggl srch nd m cnvncd Chrls s nthr psd sclr Dhmm. Wll nvr rcmmnd r vst LGF gn. f h hs prblm wth th rght thts fn bt why sympthz wth RP thgs. lwys rmmbr " dd mslm s gd mslm".

Bye now. Have fun posting hatred somewhere else.

321 Flavia  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 11:24:11pm

re: #91 filetandrelease

I read somewhere that the proposed sight for the mosque was actual damaged significantly by part of one of the planes. If that is true it must be very close to ground zero if not considered actually part of it?

Yes - that is why a lot of people are calling it "Ground Zero" It is w/in the blast radius.

It is unfair to downding you for asking this question & pointing out this fact - I will doubtless be downdinged, too. Whatever. I am growing ever more disgusted by the knee-jerks on both sides of this issue - & no, I am not referring just to LGF.

322 Flavia  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 11:47:00pm

re: #152 filetandrelease

One thing that has changed, is people in general are better educated about Islam and Muslims.

No, that's the one thing that hasn't changed.

People are as "well-educated" about evil jihadi pseudo-Muslims - they know just enough to know that, on the surface, Imam Rauf appears to be behaving like one: building a mosque* on Ground Zero**, naming it after a time/place when Muslims ruled over Xians & Jews on European soil, & opening it on 9/11. They also know about "taqiyya" - that evil jihadi pseudo-Muslims are not just allowed, they are encouraged, to lie to us about who they are, what they want from us & what they're going to do to us to get it, so lots of people think that all Imam Rauf's talk about "conciliation (WTTF)" is just a smoke screen.

But they don't realize one crucial fact (& no, I am not talking about the legal right to build there): this man has shown himself to be the opposite of that type. Because the one thing that evil jihadi pseudo-Muslims are NOT allowed to do is a) put any other religion on any sort of equal plane w/Islam, or b) declare that he belongs to another faith. And, in the name of love & brotherhood, he's done that, in public - and not just ion public, but at the funeral of a Jew, killed by evil jihadi pseudo-Muslims:

[Link: www.bj.org...]

Of course, a lot of people on the other side of the issue don't know about "fitna" - also a Muslim concept, introduced lately to Americans by Muslims when they speak out against the idea of a mosque in that particular location:

[Link: www.ottawacitizen.com...]

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

This is not that cut-n-dried an issue of either completely right & completely wrong. The reactions on all sides remind me of trying to discuss the war in Iraq & hearing (at the least bit of questioning the reasons we went to war) "If you're against the war, you're an unAmerican traitor!" While everyone who is for the building of the mosque is right, it is simply unfair to say blankly, "If you're against it, you're a bigot!", because it's not necessarily so.

* You can say "interfaith center" all you like, no one else is going to be using it.
** It's in the blast radius - let's be fair (& pointing out all the existing trash that's there is also a red herring)

323 Varek Raith  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:28:28am

re: #322 Flavia

Blah blah blah.
Why don't you just say you think all Muslims are terrorists?

324 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 7:11:55am

re: #87 Tsedek

you're all dumb ass americans. i live in israel and am active on many international forums and you are the fucking only ones who are short headed and cannot comprehend anything that goes beyond your I.Q.

(and to think that I defend americans everywhere... phew.. you sure make me doubt and think that i was wrong defending that small headness you are all blamed to have on european and israeli boards)

I think you may have some interesting views, even though from what I'm able to decipher, I don't agree with you.

Get back to us when your English writing skills have improved a little. Shalom aleichem.


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