Does the Media Bear Any Blame for the Media’s Coverage?

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Dennis DiClaudio has a good take on the question of how much blame the media should bear for the media’s coverage of the Terry Jones media feeding frenzy: Media Reports on Media Wondering If Media Maybe Had Some Role in Terry Jones Becoming Media Darling.

Will Terry Jones end up burning a divinely-inspired book of universal truths that is slightly different from his preferred divinely-inspired book of universal truths*? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe I will drive an ice pick into my own brain through my eye socket if I have to keep hearing about this nonsensical bullshit. Anything is possible!

However, the real question that is facing the American media today is what the American media makes of all this, and to what extent can the American media blame the American media for the American media’s complicity in the American media’s role in getting the American media all wrapped up in this American media frenzy? It’s a real puzzler.

It really is a tough question. I hope the media digs into this one.

Jump to bottom

398 comments
1 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:56:52pm

Yes. End of sentence.

2 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:57:39pm

HELL YES!

FOX ginned everyone up- Hannity went nuts loudly, O’Reilly went nut quietly , CNN gave rock star status to Pamela Geller and MSNBC labeled the entire country as racists if they even were curious about the matter.

Ratings baby, ratings.

3 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:58:18pm

Yes, they do.

4 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:59:00pm

If he had been ignored (with his congregation of 50) who would have known about this? I have seen youtube videos of guys in the desert blowing up the koran after 9/11 with their shotguns and who cared? No notice of them. Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t make it right.

5 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:59:23pm

There are so very few people in the media worth a damn.

6 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:59:47pm

The Middle East press was on this long before the U.S. press. Did ours help? No, but they aren’t fully to blame on this one. Now their handling of Park51? Yeah they are to blame there.

7 darthstar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 3:59:49pm

Media found posing for cameras: film at eleven.

8 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:01pm

re: #2 researchok

HELL YES!

FOX ginned everyone up- Hannity went nuts loudly, O’Reilly went nut quietly , CNN gave rock star status to Pamela Geller and MSNBC labeled the entire country as racists if they even were curious about the matter.

Ratings baby, ratings.

It’s the old media saw: If it bleeds, it leads.

Just like how William Randolph Hearst helped to instigate the Spanish-American War (among others), IIRC.

9 pharmmajor  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:04pm

If the media was responsible, they wouldn’t give Jones or his bigoted ilk ANY coverage.

10 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:11pm

um……….lemme think………….YES!

11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:14pm

re: #2 researchok

Nice. There is plenty of room for blame to spread all around…

“Reverend” Jones was on the “Today Show” this morning. Meredith gabbed with him for 10 minutes give or take…

12 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:42pm

re: #8 talon_262

It’s the old media saw: If it bleeds, it leads.

Just like how William Randolph Hearst helped to instigate the Spanish-American War (among others), IIRC.

WOW! How old are you and you can use the internets?

13 Gus  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:00:49pm

re: #2 researchok

HELL YES!

FOX ginned everyone up- Hannity went nuts loudly, O’Reilly went nut quietly , CNN gave rock star status to Pamela Geller and MSNBC labeled the entire country as racists if they even were curious about the matter.

Ratings baby, ratings.

And still retaining Pat Buchanan.

14 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:02:25pm

re: #8 talon_262
It’s the old media saw: If it bleeds, it leads. I forgot about that one. That is why they do it.

15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #8 talon_262

Billy Randy Hearst would’ve found a way to kill the interweaves…

16 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:02:54pm

On the other hand, Jones got covered wall to wall here once he became highly topical so we are guilty as well if the media is at fault. I think no coverage is enough when exposing bigots as long as you are pointing out their evil.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #4 Crimsonfisted

If he had been ignored (with his congregation of 50) who would have known about this? I have seen youtube videos of guys in the desert blowing up the koran after 9/11 with their shotguns and who cared? No notice of them. Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t make it right.

This is the unwritten rider to all of our civil rights. Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t mean it’s not a terrible idea.

18 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:04:57pm

re: #16 Thanos

On the other hand, Jones got covered wall to wall here once he became highly topical so we are guilty as well if the media is at fault. I think no coverage is enough when exposing bigots as long as you are pointing out their evil.

This is true, but on the other hand I wasn’t camped out in front of Terry Jones’s trailer, either.

My main focus was actually on countering the media’s way too credulous approach to this kook, and showing how crazy he was.

19 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:05:05pm

re: #12 Crimsonfisted

WOW! How old are you and you can use the internets?

*scratches head*

20 Blue Point  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:05:28pm

Shit sells. Film at 11.

21 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:05:28pm

Yes absolutely. There will be an in depth investigation, the FCC, a well funded set of experts and a high profile location for the round table, NYC, maybe Virginia. Expensive commentators I’m sure.

But there is a catch.

None of that happens until the investigation looks like it will rock the ratings race.

Ratings Rabbits Run Run Run©

22 allegro  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:05:34pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the unwritten rider to all of our civil rights. Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t mean it’s not a terrible idea.

It also means taking responsibility and being held responsible. I hope the Geller/Spencer et al kazoo band is held responsible when someone gets hurt from all the hate banging.

23 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:06:46pm

re: #20 nines09

I don’t watch shit.
I’m watching Sex Sells at 12:00.

24 deranged cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:06:59pm

re: #9 pharmmajor

If the media was responsible, they wouldn’t give Jones or his bigoted ilk ANY coverage.

btw, not directed at you, just a general rant:

i think doing a story or providing coverage of a crazy weird crazy guy is fine, as long as they only do it ONCE.. so we can say “well, they’re crazy. thank god i dont have to hear them talk anymore.”

it always irritates me to listen to NPR when they interview sane, democrat guy, and ridiculously crazy republican guy as “two sides of the debate”. Democrat guy will go “we passed the stimulus, it’s helped by doing A B and C, and i believe it’s done some good.” then Republican guy will go “Obama is taking my country away, he is bringing SOCIALISM and COMMUNISM with his JOB KILLING STIMULUS BAIL OUTS AND MARXIST FAILED POLICIES BAGOCK!”

But yea, i agree they need to stop giving these crazy people MORE air time just because it gets more viewers. maybe it’s entertaining for the people who love that, but it’s just plain irritating for most people. and guess what, we end up turning it off because of that.

END RANT BLARGH.

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:07:17pm

I hope the psycho preacher got a few people to rethink their support for the equally crazy and hate-filled Geller-thing.

26 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:07:23pm

When it comes to journalism it is also: Dog bites man is not news; man bites dog is news.

27 deranged cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:07:37pm

re: #16 Thanos

On the other hand, Jones got covered wall to wall here once he became highly topical so we are guilty as well if the media is at fault. I think no coverage is enough when exposing bigots as long as you are pointing out their evil.

LGF is the watchdog of bad craziness. i am perfectly cool with that.

28 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:08:07pm

re: #16 Thanos

On the other hand, Jones got covered wall to wall here once he became highly topical so we are guilty as well if the media is at fault. I think no coverage is enough when exposing bigots as long as you are pointing out their evil.

There’s quite a bit of difference between us shining a light on the bigots and xenophobes (like “Pastor” Jones and his crew) and the media giving them airtime to spew their rotten BS, just to drive ratings, IMO.

29 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:08:12pm

re: #25 Charles

Nah they are probably on their way to Tennessee and to wherever the Phelps crew is hanging out since they all said they WILL burn Korans tomorrow.

30 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:08:37pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the unwritten rider to all of our civil rights. Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t mean it’s not a terrible idea.

Yup. I recently came across Franklin’s (that would be Ben) Moral Perfection.

We have our rights and need to apply our morals to support those rights. I don’t think I am making sense to anyone else but I am to me! (And that is all that matters I guess.)

31 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:09:18pm

Are they to blame? Yes.

Will they take the blame? Of course not.

The media’s like any other business, namely that what it comes down to in the end is the bottom line. And the bottom line is that advertisement dollars pay the big bucks, not responsible news reporting. Hence why “It bleeds, it leads” is still the order of the day, because people don’t tune in to hear that the same old shit is still happening, they tune in to hear about the latest controversy, the latest “outrage,” or the latest scandal.

32 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:09:31pm

Without doubt there are many mediaholes who will mourn if Jones backs down.

33 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:10:25pm

re: #28 talon_262

There’s quite a bit of difference between us shining a light on the bigots and xenophobes (like “Pastor” Jones and his crew) and the media giving them airtime to spew their rotten BS, just to drive ratings, IMO.

I quite agree, and in the interest of “impartiality” they present him in a manner that wingnuts and other marginal types are saying “right on Pastor Jones!” instead of continually excoriating him as we have here.

34 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:10:27pm
35 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:11:37pm

re: #34 MikeySDCA
Not here. I put my red pen to bed. :)

36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:11:42pm

re: #34 MikeySDCA

Huh. What is singular?

37 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:11:49pm

re: #34 MikeySDCA

Will I get down-dinged to death for pointing out that “media” is plural?

Maybe Charles should add a grammar button? (I would love a laugh upding button)

38 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:11:50pm

re: #32 Cato the Elder

Without doubt there are many mediaholes who will mourn if Jones backs down.

Probably, but the reporters sweating it out in Gainesville have probably had enough of the heat and humidity.

That may be the actual media giving up factor.

39 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:11:51pm

re: #34 MikeySDCA

Will I get down-dinged to death for pointing out that “media” is plural?

No, but I downdinged you for asking if if you will get downdinged….

/jk… will remove it..

40 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:12:10pm
41 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:12:14pm

re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Are they to blame? Yes.

Will they take the blame? Of course not.

The media’s like any other business, namely that what it comes down to in the end is the bottom line. And the bottom line is that advertisement dollars pay the big bucks, not responsible news reporting. Hence why “It bleeds, it leads” is still the order of the day, because people don’t tune in to hear that the same old shit is still happening, they tune in to hear about the latest controversy, the latest “outrage,” or the latest scandal.

Exactly…mundane, everyday shit doesn’t pay the bills, so the media looks for as much controversy as they can find. It’s all about the ratings (and the money they make off of their advertisers from those ratings)…Glenn Beck is a prime example of this in action.

42 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:12:36pm

One thing that most of the world doesn’t much understand is how wildly undisciplined Protestant hierarchy is. It’s pretty much like a Rebel skirmish line, with every man aligning on himself.

If a Roman Catholic priest were to do something like this, he’d get in hot water with Bishops, Cardinals, and Il Papa. He’d have to either trim his sails, or repent, or go join an Order where Silence is complete, or be told off and tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail, faithwise.

Most organized religions have some sort of hierarchy which works to keep people from setting up shop on their own as leaders, teachers, and scholars of the faith. So when people see this guy up to his stunts, they react as though the stunt pretty much comes from the top.

Pravda’s editorials may have been written by Johnski Doeski, but in the final analysis they came from Uncle Joe.

It can be hard to fathom that the Reverends Jim Jones et al are not subject to any authority other than the voices in their heads.

This guy hasn’t broken enough secular laws to merit arrest and confinement, and he hasn’t gone clinically far enough around the bend, just yet, to merit medical lockup. We’ll just have to wait until he simmers down, or has had enough attention and tension for a while, or crosses some line.

43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:12:46pm

re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. What is singular?

Medium… I had no idea.

I IS SMARTER NOW! LGF DOES IT AGAIN!

44 Blue Point  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:12:50pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

I hears ya. Lose less braincells.

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:15:25pm

re: #2 researchok

HELL YES!

FOX ginned everyone up- Hannity went nuts loudly, O’Reilly went nut quietly , CNN gave rock star status to Pamela Geller and MSNBC labeled the entire country as racists if they even were curious about the matter.

Ratings baby, ratings.

Cable news (with the exception of Rachel Maddow) is garbage

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:16:56pm

re: #16 Thanos

On the other hand, Jones got covered wall to wall here once he became highly topical so we are guilty as well if the media is at fault. I think no coverage is enough when exposing bigots as long as you are pointing out their evil.

The politics of people latching onto Jones is what was covered here

We’re not guilty because we were examining what was happening with the coverage

That’s a bit like saying a reporter who reports on a building fire is an arsonist

47 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:17:16pm

re: #19 talon_262

*scratches head*

He can recall the Spanish-American war (kinda made it sound like he was there). I thought it was funny. I guess just me!

48 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:19:26pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

When I lived alone I watched MSNBC pretty much all the time. Now I just go here, yahoo new, TPM, Political Animal, Balloon-juice or, occasionally, MSNBC.com for news and such.

49 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:19:34pm

re: #40 MikeySDCA

Medium, a noun.

From Ernie Kovacs: Television a medium, so called because it is neither rare nor well done.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:19:50pm

re: #42 lostlakehiker

One thing that most of the world doesn’t much understand is how wildly undisciplined Protestant hierarchy is. It’s pretty much like a Rebel skirmish line, with every man aligning on himself.

To some extent. Some Protestant denominations are highly regulated, but there’s also a great big Wild West of weird small churches.

I still howl over Garrison Keillor’s explanation of the church he grew up in, and how the various splits in it had occurred over intense theological disputes involving damnation and women’s pants and the like.

Of course, Islam is in a similar boat, and so is Judaism—the Catholics are a bit the odd man out on the block, in some ways.

51 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:19:51pm

re: #46 WindUpBird

The politics of people latching onto Jones is what was covered here

We’re not guilty because we were examining what was happening with the coverage

That’s a bit like saying a reporter who reports on a building fire is an arsonist

No, it’s not a thing like that at all. You are confused in your analogy, try again.

52 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:21:24pm

re: #47 Crimsonfisted

He can recall the Spanish-American war (kinda made it sound like he was there). I thought it was funny. I guess just me!

Sorry…I’m sick today, so my meters are off. Just a mass comm/broadcast media major dropping a little history on LGF ;-P

53 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:21:43pm
54 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:22:45pm

The anti Muslim sentiment started with the Fox commentators, Sister Sarah and Geller. Then Newt, and on and on and on, till this idiot upped the ante.

Seems like the news went from the actual crimes committed against Muslims to Crazy Pastor Jones who sagely went for the biggest headline ever.

It’s news, but I wish it would’ve been approached in a less tabloid fashion. hahaha I made myself laugh.

55 samuraishake  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:23:28pm

re: #54 Stanley Sea

The ante is always upped. That’s why Rush is fading away, while even more extremes are becoming mainstream.

56 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:25:05pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

Cable news (with the exception of Rachel Maddow) is garbage

I can go with the garbage bit.

That isn’t exactly a stretch.

Real news died a long time ago.

57 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:25:05pm

re: #53 MikeySDCA

Brit Hume, Bret Baier, and Chris Wallace on Fox are all excellent.

Why are they excellent?

58 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:25:26pm

re: #53 MikeySDCA

I used to think that but they are now required to cover so much culture war crap that I’ve locked out Faux news on my cable converter box. They are the news channel that my cable converter used to boot up to…

Look at the crap they pulled today with the 9/11 “body bits” map of NY to combat Park 51.

59 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:25:41pm
60 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:26:10pm

re: #58 Thanos

I used to think that but they are now required to cover so much culture war crap that I’ve locked out Faux news on my cable converter box. They are the news channel that my cable converter used to boot up to…

Look at the crap they pulled today with the 9/11 “body bits” map of NY to combat Park 51.

I assume that’s what it sounds like.

Yowza.

61 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:26:47pm
62 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:26:56pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume that’s what it sounds like.

Yowza.

All hail the Sacred Bubble of Ground Zero…

///

63 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:27:12pm

re: #58 Thanos

I used to think that but they are now required to cover so much culture war crap that I’ve locked out Faux news on my cable converter box. They are the news channel that my cable converter used to boot up to…

Look at the crap they pulled today with the 9/11 “body bits” map of NY to combat Park 51.

Yep, that was pretty wild huh.

64 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:27:40pm

re: #61 MikeySDCA

They are bright and knowledgeable. Their opinions are sane, which is rare.

LOL

65 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:27:56pm

re: #54 Stanley Sea

The anti Muslim sentiment started with the Fox commentators, Sister Sarah and Geller. Then Newt, and on and on and on, till this idiot upped the ante.

Seems like the news went from the actual crimes committed against Muslims to Crazy Pastor Jones who sagely went for the biggest headline ever.

It’s news, but I wish it would’ve been approached in a less tabloid fashion. hahaha I made myself laugh.

Sure- and the rest saw the numbers, chose a side and hopped on.

So much for journalistic integrity.

66 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:28:24pm

re: #61 MikeySDCA

They are bright and knowledgeable. Their opinions are sane, which is rare.

AND, they are highly regarded by their peers.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:29:08pm

BTW, we had a gas main blow up in San Bruno yesterday. 53 homes destroyed. It looked like the destruction of Sodom in a cheesy Charlton Heston movie. Cars burning in the street.

I was waiting for the bus when the entire Marin fire brigade came in off the Golden Gate Bridge, sirens and lights going, and booked down Park Presidio.

68 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:29:11pm

re: #66 researchok

AND, they are highly regarded by their peers.

Yeah, their peers at FOX News.

69 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:29:40pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume that’s what it sounds like.

Yowza.

Oh yeah, they’ve taken the low road.

70 dwells38  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:29:42pm

Blame?

Blame for what?

71 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:29:52pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume that’s what it sounds like.

Yowza.

Here’s the story at Raw, a link to the map is in the story…

rawstory.com

72 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:30:45pm

re: #68 recusancy

Yeah, their peers at FOX News.

Really? Which other journalists have been critical of the, in terms of their work as journalists?

73 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:31:20pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, we had a gas main blow up in San Bruno yesterday. 53 homes destroyed. It looked like the destruction of Sodom in a cheesy Charlton Heston movie. Cars burning in the street.

I was waiting for the bus when the entire Marin fire brigade came in off the Golden Gate Bridge, sirens and lights going, and booked down Park Presidio.

I am sure I’m not alone, so I’ll say WE were thinking of you, and are glad you checked in.

74 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:32:01pm

What I’d like to see more of from the “news” about insane people would be interviews with their friends, relatives and neighbors.

“Yeah, Terry. Crazy bitch-bastard. I wouldn’t let him feed my cat…”

75 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:32:12pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, we had a gas main blow up in San Bruno yesterday. 53 homes destroyed. It looked like the destruction of Sodom in a cheesy Charlton Heston movie. Cars burning in the street.

I was waiting for the bus when the entire Marin fire brigade came in off the Golden Gate Bridge, sirens and lights going, and booked down Park Presidio.

You live near there? I saw that in the AM- pretty wild.

Is it true the gas company just never got around to getting a leak fixed? That may have caused the explosion?

76 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #74 Cato the Elder

What I’d like to see more of from the “news” about insane people would be interviews with their friends, relatives and neighbors.

“Yeah, Terry. Crazy bitch-bastard. I wouldn’t let him feed my cat…”

LOLOL

77 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:33:06pm
78 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:33:23pm

Hey kids. Off topic a little. Just watched the Stark County GOP candidate video. Fried a few brain cells watching that little bit of histrionics. Now to kill some more brains cells with ym friend Mr Guinness.

Oh, and bugger the media.

79 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:33:33pm

I think Pastor Jones fifteen mins are almost up, and after this he won’t get much more coverage. He’s served his purpose for the wingnuts by keeping the focus off the bizarroid GOP and Teaparty candidates, and by making them seem less extreme in comparison. I wonder what the shits will pull next week to keep the news cycle and focus away from Rand, Angle, etc. etc. ??

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:33:56pm

re: #69 researchok

Oh yeah, they’ve taken the low road.

The bodies and the debris of the buildings were scattered to the winds. People were getting ash falling miles outside New York.

The tragedy is almost unthinkable.

But we have to rebuild, and we have to go on, and live in a place where others died, and everyone understood that from the beginning. Like London after the Blitz, like Hiroshima after the bomb, like every place that’s been attacked and lost people who didn’t deserve to die, we still knew we needed to go on.

And now, over this community center, we now have to be morbid and remind ourselves that Lower Manhattan is a graveyard? It is regardless of what is built there.

81 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:34:14pm

re: #79 Thanos

I think Pastor Jones fifteen mins are almost up, and after this he won’t get much more coverage. He’s served his purpose for the wingnuts by keeping the focus off the bizarroid GOP and Teaparty candidates, and by making them seem less extreme in comparison. I wonder what the shits will pull next week to keep the news cycle and focus away from Rand, Angle, etc. etc. ??

Oh, we still have Beck/Palin tomorrow celebrating 9/11.

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:34:31pm

re: #73 Stanley Sea

I am sure I’m not alone, so I’ll say WE were thinking of you, and are glad you checked in.

Thanks. A couple of my coworkers live down that way, but everyone I know seems to be fine, Baruch Hashem.

83 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:34:36pm

re: #72 researchok

Really? Which other journalists have been critical of the, in terms of their work as journalists?

No one’s been publicly critical but that doesn’t mean they’re respected.

84 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:34:59pm

re: #79 Thanos

Mine’s vodka tonight. Tomorrow? Whiskey?

85 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:35:07pm

Medal of Honor Given to a Living Soldier

In the most dangerous valley of the most rugged corner of eastern Afghanistan, a small rifle team of airborne soldiers fell into an insurgent ambush, a coordinated attack from three sides.

A young Army specialist, Salvatore A. Giunta, took a bullet to the chest, but was saved by the heavy plates of his body armor. Shaking off the punch from the round, he jumped up and pulled two wounded soldiers to safety, grabbed hand grenades and ran up the trail to where his squad mates had been patrolling.

There, he saw a chilling image: Two fighters hauling one of his American comrades into the forest. Specialist Giunta hurled his grenades and emptied the clip in his automatic rifle, forcing the enemy to drop the wounded soldier. Still taking fire, he provided cover and comfort to his mortally wounded teammate until help arrived.

“It was one of the worst days of my life, and when I revisit it, it kind of guts me a little bit more every time,” the soldier, now a staff sergeant, said Friday.

For his valor during that October 2007 mission, the White House announced Friday that the 25-year-old sergeant, of Hiawatha, Iowa, would become the first living service member to receive the Medal of Honor, the military’s most prestigious award, for action during any war since Vietnam.

86 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:35:54pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

I wondered what the hell happened when that news was breaking. Crazy how big it was.

87 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:36:08pm

re: #81 Stanley Sea

Oh, we still have Beck/Palin tomorrow celebrating 9/11.

I can’t think of a better way to commemorate the day.

/// /// ///

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:36:23pm

re: #75 researchok

You live near there? I saw that in the AM- pretty wild.

Is it true the gas company just never got around to getting a leak fixed? That may have caused the explosion?

I’m in the Bay Area, not near SB when I’m at home, but close enough that I know people from there.

The news has been that people were smelling gas for days and PG&E had reports. 48 hour rule applies, I think, but if they had warning of this, it’s going to be the lawsuit to end all lawsuits.

89 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:36:37pm

re: #84 Crimsonfisted

Mine’s vodka tonight. Tomorrow? Whiskey?

What an excellent idea. It’s a frabjous day, and Friday to boot…

90 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:37:32pm

Pastor Jones is more media savvy than I originally thought.

First, he backs off burning the Quran because he claims Rauf promised him Park 51 would be moved if no Qurans were burned. Then, when Rauf denies making such a promise, he threatens to resume his original plan, or postpone it to a later date.


Thus the sick bastard keeps his name in the news. I find it hard to believe that Rauf, after an hour on CNN the night before, told Jones in a private conversation of his plans to move Park 51. As if Jones were the first person he would tell this to. If so, he’s far less media savvy than I thought.

91 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:37:37pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

Shit yeah. I only heard the breaking news part. Any casualties?

92 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:38:00pm

re: #83 recusancy

Mandy misses you. Go find her and blow your smoke up her ass for a while.

93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:38:05pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

IIRC… (SFZ…glad you didn’t get blowed up) Mennonites and Amish split because of buttons instead of hooks on shirts.

94 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:38:25pm

re: #90 palomino

I’m having some very dark thoughts about Terry Jones that I shant share.

95 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:39:01pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder

Mandy misses you. Go find her and blow your smoke up her ass for a while.

Hu?

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:39:39pm

re: #91 Irenicum

Shit yeah. I only heard the breaking news part. Any casualties?

As of this morning, six confirmed dead, and that’s almost certainly going to rise as the firefighters are able to get in there.

97 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:39:41pm

re: #83 recusancy

No one’s been publicly critical but that doesn’t mean they’re respected.

So you don’t really know if they are respected or not.

I see.

98 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:39:53pm
99 windsagio  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:39:58pm

Discussion of the media

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:40:19pm

I have to bail. See you in a while.

101 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:40:20pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn. Sorry to hear that.

102 windsagio  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:41:16pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

I know you’re leaving, but did we ever hear from Obdi about his friends?

103 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:41:20pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Our thoughts and prayers SFZ.

104 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:41:22pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m in the Bay Area, not near SB when I’m at home, but close enough that I know people from there.

The news has been that people were smelling gas for days and PG&E had reports. 48 hour rule applies, I think, but if they had warning of this, it’s going to be the lawsuit to end all lawsuits.

LOL- A California lawsuit to end all lawsuits….

I can see the TV ads now…

105 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:42:17pm

re: #103 Crimsonfisted

Our thoughts and prayers SFZ.


Same here. And have a good New Year.

106 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:42:25pm

re: #97 researchok

So you don’t really know if they are respected or not.

I see.

If you honestly think Baier, Hume and Wallace Jr are decent and fair journalists then continue to live in your own FOX News inspired reality.

107 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:42:40pm

re: #72 researchok

Really? Which other journalists have been critical of the, in terms of their work as journalists?

I think Brit Hume stepped in it when he suggested Tiger Woods should covert from Buddhism to Christianity.

108 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:42:44pm

re: #11 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nice. There is plenty of room for blame to spread all around…

“Reverend” Jones was on the “Today Show” this morning. Meredith gabbed with him for 10 minutes give or take…

They said he was going to be on Morning Joe today. They brought up the live video feed of jones, one commenter asked him to knock it off in biblical terms, and then they cut the feed before he could respond. I thought it was hilarious.

109 darthstar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:42:50pm

CNN covered the biggest story of the day…President Obama wasn’t wearing his wedding band during the presser. Seriously. CNN is a fucking joke.

110 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:43:41pm

re: #90 palomino

You may have seen this earlier on ThinkProgress - from Daisy Khan, Imam Rauf’s wife:

She said she told Masri that such a meeting should take place sometime in the future “when cooler heads have prevailed.” She explained that she would prefer not to meet with Jones on Saturday:

We do not want to take away from the solemn day of 9/11. Our Center is not about 9/11, the Quran is not about 9/11, we wish to commorate 9/11 with prayers for the families of the victims.

Khan also told us, “We reject any comparison to what we are prepared to build in NY and what Pastor was ready to destroy in Florida.”

111 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:43:55pm
112 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:44:02pm

Anyone know if Hoosier is in Indy right now? I have 2 more box seat tickets to XFest tomorrow with VIP parking that are his if he wants them. He even gets to sit next to me as an added bonus.

113 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:44:21pm

Someone mentioned wanting to see interviews with Jones’ relatives lamenting how fucking nuts he is well….see here

114 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:45:27pm

re: #109 darthstar

CNN covered the biggest story of the day…President Obama wasn’t wearing his wedding band during the presser. Seriously. CNN is a fucking joke.

Jokes are funny.

115 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:45:29pm

re: #109 darthstar

CNN covered the biggest story of the day…President Obama wasn’t wearing his wedding band during the presser. Seriously. CNN is a fucking joke.

For crying out loud, really? Sheesh. I take mine off as soon as I walk in the door at home, and half the time not wear them on the weekends, because it’s hot, I swell, or for a host of reasons.

I am DEFINITELY not Obama’s biggest fan but REALLY! This means nothing. He could have been running a bit late and forgot, for crying out loud. Left it on the bureau if he took it off at night. Yeah, THAT never happens to anybody.

116 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:45:43pm

re: #106 recusancy

If you honestly think Baier, Hume and Wallace Jr are decent and fair journalists then continue to live in your own FOX News inspired reality.

OK, that’s your opinion. Everyone has one.

You claimed they were not well regarded by their peers. How do you know this?

117 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:47:05pm

re: #109 darthstar

was he wearing his flag pin though?

118 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:47:07pm

re: #107 blueraven

I think Brit Hume stepped in it when he suggested Tiger Woods should covert from Buddhism to Christianity.

Yeah, how quickly that bs was forgotten and forgiven.

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:47:13pm

re: #109 darthstar

CNN covered the biggest story of the day…President Obama wasn’t wearing his wedding band during the presser. Seriously. CNN is a fucking joke.

“I wear my ring on my right hand, cause I married the wrong damn woman!”
-Robin Harris

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:47:54pm

re: #114 EmmmieG

Avatar ding.

121 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:48:21pm

re: #107 blueraven

I think Brit Hume stepped in it when he suggested Tiger Woods should covert from Buddhism to Christianity.

He did. His remarks were out of bounds.

122 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:48:43pm

I think the idea that Imam Rauf or any other person in the world should feel obliged to “meet with” Dingleberry Jones is a scandal in and of itself. And the media are largely responsible for giving Herr Jones that kind of clout.

Fucking pig-circus.

123 steve  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:49:14pm

Will the media check the media? I highly doubt it.
Why is this koran burning any different than others?

124 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:49:56pm

re: #118 Stanley Sea

Yeah, how quickly that bs was forgotten and forgiven.

Well, they all step in it from time to time. Like I said though, he was out of bounds on that, big time. Even though it was in the context of opinion, those kind of remarks need to kept to oneself until retirement.

125 windsagio  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:50:03pm

re: #123 steve

what others are you thinking of?!

126 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:51:34pm

re: #112 RogueOne

Anyone know if Hoosier is in Indy right now? I have 2 more box seat tickets to XFest tomorrow with VIP parking that are his if he wants them. He even gets to sit next to me as an added bonus.

What up Bro? I’m all packed up and ready to go…Thanks so much for the offer..
I’ll be back every year for the Indy 500 and be staying with Paulie and his wife..I’ve really grown some roots here in Indiana for the last couple of years..
Let’s stay in touch…

127 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:53:42pm

re: #126 HoosierHoops

What up Bro? I’m all packed up and ready to go…Thanks so much for the offer..
I’ll be back every year for the Indy 500 and be staying with Paulie and his wife..I’ve really grown some roots here in Indiana for the last couple of years..
Let’s stay in touch…

You taking off this weekend? I just got the tix today or I would have asked you sooner.

128 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:54:28pm

53 ProLifeLiberal
No. The mainstream followers should not be held responsible for the acts of a few ignorant nutjobs.

And yet here y’all are, tarring Christendom with the “Jones” brush.

Also, the strip clubs, liquor stores and other businesses present around Ground Zero now were probably there, in some incarnation, before the Twin Towers were destroyed. I am pretty sure those businesses generated lots of tax revenue for The City, which is likely why they’re there. Not so sure the Cultural Center will be as tax-revenue lucrative. So that building probably has some other arm-twisting reason to be built in the background.

How about this? Why can’t we postpone the building of this mosque until the Twin Towers are rebuilt. I don’t care who rebuilds them, only that they are rebuilt to their previous splendor. That seems reasonable to me.

129 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:54:39pm

When musing about the effects of media upon the media I find it best to watch a bit of human pixel pacman…

nerdist.com

130 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:54:41pm

re: #125 windsagio

Westboro Baptist did it before, and I believe others have as well.

131 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:55:59pm

re: #95 recusancy

Hu?

Sorry. That was meant for Re-Sear-Chok.

132 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:56:10pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

It’s going to be a long weekend. I don’t mean that in the good sense.

133 windsagio  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:56:27pm

re: #130 Dreggas

well then no its not really different, except it gave more forewarning, and theres the whole thing about doing it in 9/11… gives it that juicy narrative twist that people love.

134 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:58:34pm

O/T but really neat: Fresh Water JellyFish in Walden Pond.

135 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #127 RogueOne

You taking off this weekend? I just got the tix today or I would have asked you sooner.

I am so crazy busy…The moving truck pulls up Friday then Winston & I live in a motel for 2 weeks and then do a road tip to Oklahoma…
Thanks Rogue

136 steve  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:59:34pm

re: #125 windsagio

what others are you thinking of?!

Nov 24, 2005. Reported in the media and then died an swift death.

Oct 14, 2009

Original Koran Burning: Muslims have killed, died, protested and boycotted over the real, perceived or rumored mistreatment of the Quran, but the book they revere as the final revelation of Allah to Mohammed was a version compiled by an early caliph almost two decades after Mohammed’s death. According to major Islamic sources, that caliph ordered all rival versions burned.

137 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:59:51pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

And yet here y’all are, tarring Christendom with the “Jones” brush.

kthnxbai.

138 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 4:59:53pm

re: #134 Dreggas

O/T but really neat: Fresh Water JellyFish in Walden Pond.

How odd.

139 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:01:06pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

I never even knew there was such a thing and I’m all about learning about underwater life. Of course the interesting part: blooms like this occur when water is really warm. But nah, nothing is changing in the climate, nothing at all.

140 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:02:17pm

re: #131 Cato the Elder

Sorry. That was meant for Re-Sear-Chok.

I never had the same kind of relationship with Mandy as you did.

We were never that close.
/

141 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:02:19pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

“Christendom”? Are you a visitor from the 12th Century?

142 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:03:36pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

“Christendom”? Are you a visitor from the 12th Century?

Or the Dove Church?

143 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:03:40pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

“Christendom”? Are you a visitor from the 12th Century?

Presumably.

144 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:07:12pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

No problem hoops. Good luck getting your move on.

145 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:07:22pm

re: #139 Dreggas

Ahem. It’s a pond. The water gets really warm there every damn summer.

146 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:12:50pm

re: #145 Cato the Elder

I used to swim in a pond with cow feces in it…

Today? I’d not let my kids near it without a hazmat suit.

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:12:58pm

re: #145 Cato the Elder

Ahem. It’s a pond. The water gets really warm there every damn summer.

You’re Catholic, right? If the summers are damned, they’re more than a little hot.

148 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:15:08pm

re: #147 EmmmieG

I live in Baltimore, where summer is Hell. And I’m always glad when it’s over.

149 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:15:45pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I don’t know if you’re a New Yorker or not. I am. Born and raised. Getting anything built, let alone a ginormous enterprise such as a replacement tower for what happened on 9/11, is damn near impossible in the short run. It will happen. It’s just gonna take every trade union, every business interest, and every governmental agency working together (haha!) to make it happen. But seriously it will happen. The desire is there. Believe me. It’s there big time. But your argument is that the mosque must wait till the towers/tower gets rebuilt. If that’s the case, then there’s a hell of a lot of buildings that are gonna hafta wait in Lower Manhattan to be built. But it seems they aren’t. Why is that? Because that’s how we work. Gov stuff just takes a huge amount of time. It always has and always will. Private stuff just works faster, whether for profit or not. By the way, this community center/mosque is only now being “proposed” and hasn’t even begun building. But I suspect that escaped your notice.

150 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:17:22pm

re: #149 Irenicum

And perfect timing - read Lawhawk’s blog post - I’m 1/2 way through. Very good, very informative about the progress on this 9th anniversary of the attack.

lawhawk.blogspot.com

151 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:18:04pm

My mom, brother, and I were just reminiscing about the “leech ponds” in Wisconsin. My kids were appalled.

152 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:18:17pm

re: #140 researchok

um, is Mandy gone? Or just not here tonight? I am not on much so I miss a lot of the ban hammering and flouncing and such.
(not meaning to be indelicate, just curious)

153 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:18:59pm

141 Cato the Elder
re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

“Christendom”? Are you a visitor from the 12th Century?

142 researchok
Or the Dove Church?

143 wozzablog
Presumably.

Ad hominem much?

154 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:19:12pm

re: #151 prairiefire

I used to catch leeches and sell em for bait.

155 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:20:48pm

re: #153 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Then respond to my post Gail if you please.

156 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:12pm

The notion that newsrooms should turn a profit is 75% of what drives media stupidity.

157 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:17pm

re: #152 Crimsonfisted

um, is Mandy gone? Or just not here tonight? I am not on much so I miss a lot of the ban hammering and flouncing and such.
(not meaning to be indelicate, just curious)

Gone, finis. I checked out the stalker blog where she’s at (thought someone here today was there, false alarm) and she’s happily back to using her piss on God icon.

wheee!

158 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:17pm

re: #154 Dreggas

I used to catch leeches and sell em for bait.

!! How do you catch them? I think it is interesting there is some revival of using them in the medical profession.

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:33pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

GAZE

160 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:40pm

re: #152 Crimsonfisted

um, is Mandy gone? Or just not here tonight? I am not on much so I miss a lot of the ban hammering and flouncing and such.
(not meaning to be indelicate, just curious)

Yeah, Mandy apparently got on Charles’ last nerve and got the stick a couple of weeks ago…she’s now hanging her hat at CC with the other ex-Lizards that weren’t batshit crazy enough for the Deuce (but there are some there that are still pretty fucking scary, if you ask me).

161 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:21:48pm

re: #154 Dreggas

I used to catch leeches and sell em for bait.

round here leeches ware silk ties & wing tip shoes…

162 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:22:08pm

re: #152 Crimsonfisted

um, is Mandy gone? Or just not here tonight? I am not on much so I miss a lot of the ban hammering and flouncing and such.
(not meaning to be indelicate, just curious)

She’s gone.

163 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:22:31pm

re: #151 prairiefire

Heh, we had the dismal swamp down the road from our house. All sorts of critters swam in those waters and I almost drowned there. Ah such memories.

164 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:23:21pm

re: #158 prairiefire

very carefully with a stick. Seriously. We used to see them in ponds or even in creek’s so we’d grab whatever they were attached to and then scrape em off into buckets of water. They made great walleye bait IIRC.

165 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:23:24pm

re: #157 Stanley Sea

Gone, finis. I checked out the stalker blog where she’s at (thought someone here today was there, false alarm) and she’s happily back to using her piss on God icon.

wheee!

I didn’t know she moved onto the stalker blog.

Damn.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:23:41pm

re: #162 researchok

She’s gone.

Everybody’s high on consolation…

167 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:23:58pm

re: #157 Stanley Sea

re: #162 researchok

re: #160 talon_262

Thanks. I am not on much anymore. Mr Fisted put his hammer down too (get off the computer, wench!) and I use my phone so.much.more. and next month, I am ordering the Droid X. I just happen to be on tonight.

168 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:24:15pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Everybody’s high on consolation…

Sublime as ever.

169 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:25:15pm

re: #167 Crimsonfisted

(get off the computer, wench!)

Hey now, I was just leaving…

/

170 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:25:22pm

I obviously didn’t share Mandy’s more provocative attitudes. Sorry it happened though. I’ve been more infrequent lately. When did it happen?

171 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:25:42pm

re: #164 Dreggas

I believe you. I can remember those black, slimy things hanging off of my little brother’s torso. When we were talking about it Saturday, he said “careful, I’m going to start screaming again.” I guess I had the good fortune to decide not to get into the murky water.

172 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:25:47pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Everybody’s high on consolation…

Everybody’s trying to tell me what’s right for me

173 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:26:57pm

re: #160 talon_262

Sorry. Didn’t see your post about her banning.

174 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:27:04pm

re: #172 talon_262

Everybody’s trying to tell me what’s right for me

well you logged on by your own free will :)

175 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:27:20pm

Irenicum:

I was born, raised and grew up in NY, near Pratt Intstitute in Brooklyn til my thirties. So, I unnastan how things work there.

This cultural center is a provocation, one I think everyone defending it knows in his heart-of-hearts. There are 100+ mosques already in the five boroughs. Why is it so important to put this one there? In the interest of fairness, I would say no one can build there till The Twin Towers are rebuilt. Is that ok with you?

176 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:27:45pm

re: #168 researchok

Sublime as ever.

Youtube Video
177 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:27:55pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Everybody’s high on consolation…

I am for one, glad as hell.

No Mandy-ass thread jack here, but she was holding back soooo much, it was ridiculous.

178 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:28:08pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Irenicum:

I was born, raised and grew up in NY, near Pratt Intstitute in Brooklyn til my thirties. So, I unnastan how things work there.

This cultural center is a provocation, one I think everyone defending it knows in his heart-of-hearts. There are 100+ mosques already in the five boroughs. Why is it so important to put this one there? In the interest of fairness, I would say no one can build there till The Twin Towers are rebuilt. Is that ok with you?

how near Pratt?

179 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:28:14pm

re: #158 prairiefire

!! How do you catch them? I think it is interesting there is some revival of using them in the medical profession.

Back when my mother was an RN and not merely an insane person, she told me that there was a patient at her hospital who had leeches applied as a medical treatment for… something. I know for a fact that maggots were used to treat someone’s gangrenous toe. I think I’d almost rather have it lopped off.

180 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:28:18pm

re: #167 Crimsonfisted

re: #162 researchok

re: #160 talon_262
…..next month, I am ordering the Droid X. I just happen to be on tonight.

Good call, great phone.

181 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:28:19pm

re: #156 negativ

The notion that newsrooms should turn a profit is 75% of what drives media stupidity.

There’s a great deal of truth in that, but nothing to be done about it. That is how the free market works: In order to continue to run an enterprise, it needs to make money. To stay on the air, a network must have an audience. Those are the rules and trying to change them would create worse problems than the one you are trying to solve.

182 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:28:26pm

re: #157 Stanley Sea

Gone, finis. I checked out the stalker blog where she’s at (thought someone here today was there, false alarm) and she’s happily back to using her piss on God icon.

wheee!

Now there’s a shock.

Screw you, Mandy.

183 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:29:30pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

In the interest of fairness, I would say no one can build there till The Twin Towers are rebuilt. Is that ok with you?


Who died and made you the king of New York? What gives you the authority to restrict other people’s Constitutional rights?

184 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:30:22pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I don’t have a heart of hearts. I do have a brain, though.

185 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #177 Stanley Sea

It’s her loss.

186 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:33:54pm

re: #180 RogueOne

Good call, great phone.


Took a while to make a decision. I have the DARE now. LOVE IT! Don’t want to give it up really (William-Shatner-Capt-Kirk ON DEMAND. And the price is right. $15 dollar a month unlimited web access, grandfathered in because the rate was locked in 3 years ago) so I surf the net and stopped blogging (more or less) since I consume info using the phone, not produce it.

But the features of the Droid are like a Siren’s Song to me. Got.To.Have.It.

187 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:33:55pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Image: 14f34c48-1e17-4718-9cd4-02f4ab8cbb44.jpg

G’nite, lizards.

188 recusancy  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:34:04pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Who died and made you the king of New York? What gives you the authority to restrict other people’s Constitutional rights?

Look at his nic.

189 HoosierHoops  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:34:22pm

re: #182 Cato the Elder

Now there’s a shock.

Screw you, Mandy.

CATO!
*Shakes head*
Don’t say that stuff..Please…
/LOL You are so bad…

190 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

well you can see the twin lights rising, from in front of the Kum Kau restaurant quite clearly tonight…

191 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:34:58pm

“Gail” likes Ayn Rand. Nuff sed.

192 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:35:10pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

53 ProLifeLiberal
No. The mainstream followers should not be held responsible for the acts of a few ignorant nutjobs.

And yet here y’all are, tarring Christendom with the “Jones” brush.

Also, the strip clubs, liquor stores and other businesses present around Ground Zero now were probably there, in some incarnation, before the Twin Towers were destroyed. I am pretty sure those businesses generated lots of tax revenue for The City, which is likely why they’re there. Not so sure the Cultural Center will be as tax-revenue lucrative. So that building probably has some other arm-twisting reason to be built in the background.

How about this? Why can’t we postpone the building of this mosque until the Twin Towers are rebuilt. I don’t care who rebuilds them, only that they are rebuilt to their previous splendor. That seems reasonable to me.

1. No one is equating all Christians with Jones
2. WTH do you mean by

“Not so sure the Cultural Center will be as tax-revenue lucrative. So that building probably has some other arm-twisting reason to be built in the background”?


3. Why would anyone wannabe Gail Wynand. You know he kills himself in the end.

193 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:35:19pm

re: #128 Gail Wynand Wannabe

How about this? Why can’t we postpone the building of this mosque until the Twin Towers are rebuilt. I don’t care who rebuilds them, only that they are rebuilt to their previous splendor. That seems reasonable to me.

Why should this private property owner’s rights be held hostage to your own personal pig-ignorant and bitch-ass-backwards sense of priorities? What seems reasonable to you smacks of arrogant, monomaniacal, rock-stupid bigotry to me.

194 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:35:54pm

.re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Irenicum:

I was born, raised and grew up in NY, near Pratt Intstitute in Brooklyn til my thirties. So, I unnastan how things work there.

This cultural center is a provocation, one I think everyone defending it knows in his heart-of-hearts. There are 100+ mosques already in the five boroughs. Why is it so important to put this one there? In the interest of fairness, I would say no one can build there till The Twin Towers are rebuilt. Is that ok with you?

What I’m hearing from you is “freedom of religion for me, none for thee (if you’re Muslim)”.

/give us hard facts to make you case, not just your “feelings” (which “conservatives” love to accuse anyone who is not like them of doing)…

195 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:36:05pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

This my answer to you, and why I side with Imam Rauf: He’s not a hater. He does not talk or act like the haters who attack him. Here’s a column from a man named Scott Wheeler, who runs a PAC called the National Republican Trust and vocally opposes Park 51:

Hijacking the First Amendment and Flying
it into the Jefferson Memorial

By Scott Wheeler and Buckley Carlson


We have heard more angry attacks on Americans from the so-called peaceful Muslim world for the mere mention that a Koran might be burned than we have ever heard from them in condemning their fellow Muslims for perpetrating terrorist attacks on behalf of their religion.

Just this week, in a 1,000 word op-ed in The New York Times, Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam leading the effort to build the Ground Zero Mosque, dismissed the concerns of 70% of America, labeling us “radicals,” thus giving us the same identifier that Obama gives to terrorists; gave short, arrogant shrift to the victims’ families; and he refused to denounce his own vitriolic statements regarding the U.S. in the aftermath of 9/11. Remember, he claimed America’s policies were an “accomplice” to the slaughter of 9/11…and “the U.S. must acknowledge the harm they have to done to Muslims before the terror can stop.” Quite a “peaceful” diplomat, this guy, this “universally well-regarded” “man of faith.” But Rauf did something else in his Times op/ed; he threatened Americans with violence if his Ground Zero Mosque location was moved away from the site of the devastating attacks:

“These efforts by radicals at distortion, endanger our national security and the personal security of Americans worldwide… Americans must not back away from completion of this project. If we do, we cede the discourse and, essentially, our future to radicals on both sides.”

There were no Korans burned or mosques opposed before the Islamic terrorists burned nearly three thousand Americans. And yet, we are not supposed to burn the book they say inspired them to do it…or there will be more violence, Obama and Hillary Clinton tell us. Let’s get this straight: not burning the Koran lead to the burning of nearly three thousand Americans. And now, burning the Koran - we are told - will lead to more Americans dying?

Here’s a dinner table-worthy question: What puts more American lives in danger than burning a Koran in Florida? Answer: having an unqualified, anti-American street punk for a president! So, if you liberals take Obama at his word, then you must call for his immediate resignation with the same enthusiasm that you are now denouncing the kookie Koran-burner.

Obama and Jabba the Hillary want to allow Osama bin Laden to rewrite the First Amendment. Boy, that will surely teach those “radicals” who is winning the war on terrorism!

Killing unborn children causes violence too, and not only to the murdered children themselves, it turns out; the occasional abortion provider finds himself in danger too. So, the same lunatics demanding that the First Amendment be abrogated in order to shield Islamists from the slightest offense, are the very ones loudly declaring that the right to kill unborn babies is so sacrosanct, they must send federal marshals out to protect the abortionists. Mind boggling. It’s a shock some of these Democrats can even walk straight and upright, so contorted they become defending their so-called “principles.”

SNIP

I’ll post the full column later tonight on a LGF Page, but this excerpt shows the hate that just drips off the page. This is why I think Park 51 isn’t a bad thing: because the man who wants to build it is not a hater and his detractors are. Not building it hands the haters a win.

196 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:38:00pm

re: #188 recusancy

Look at his nic.

Ah, OK. I had to google that one.

197 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:38:01pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

There’s a great deal of truth in that, but nothing to be done about it. That is how the free market works: In order to continue to run an enterprise, it needs to make money. To stay on the air, a network must have an audience. Those are the rules and trying to change them would create worse problems than the one you are trying to solve.

I see your point and don’t necessarily disagree with it, but in the case of the broadcast networks (for example), don’t they make enough from insanely popular shows like American Idol, etc etc to cover a nightly news show? Maybe not, I don’t have any idea.

At some point, a story will break such that Telling It Like It Is is not going to endear you to certain advertisers. Or that will greatly endear you to certain other advertisers. There are all kinds of potential conflicts of interest out there. But I suspect you’re right; nothing can/will be done about it.

198 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:38:19pm

re: #191 Cato the Elder

“Gail” likes Ayn Rand. Nuff sed.

And they’re a later entry to the LGF Class of 2004….coincidence?

I think not…

199 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:38:31pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I lived down the street from an Islamic center on Staten Island. My old neighborhood has halal markets up and down the street. I also lived in a Jewish neighborhood with orthodox/conservative/reformed Jews all around me (I considered converting). I happen to be a theologically conservative Christian who is extremely grateful to live in a country where I can practice my religion freely. And if I happen to be an atheist, I can also practice my non-religion freely. And if someone wants to build a building that commemorates their “faith” whatever it is, more power to them. Telling them they can’t till something else gets built is a poor ass excuse if you ask me.

Lemme ask you a question: What if it was a church or a synagogue in the Twin Towers neighborhood? Would you object?

200 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:38:41pm

re: #190 brookly red

well you can see the twin lights rising, from in front of the Kum Kau restaurant quite clearly tonight…

that is kinda weird… you guys know of the Kum Kau?

201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:39:05pm

re: #179 negativ

They are wonderful at cleaning up oozing, pussy, infected sores.

202 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:39:14pm

re: #191 Cato the Elder

“Gail” likes Ayn Rand. Nuff sed.

Well, to be fair, liking “The Fountainhead” is quite different from liking “Atlas Shrugged”. The Fountainhead is not a hatefest. But your point is well taken.

203 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:41:49pm

RWC - are you here?

204 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:43:43pm

Phil Davison, set to Braveheart:

Youtube Video
205 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:44:59pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Well, to be fair, liking “The Fountainhead” is quite different from liking “Atlas Shrugged”. The Fountainhead is not a hatefest. But your point is well taken.

Right, The Fountainhead is a terrorist manifesto that culminates with the dynamiting of a building out of spite, along with a trial and jury nullification based on the purported value of a person’s ego. This makes it much worse. It’s a blatant rejection of the rule of law, and a piece of pure concentrated evil.

206 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:45:48pm

I have to go to dinner. Please let me know what transpires with Ellesworth Touhy’s employer.

207 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:47:26pm

re: #205 goddamnedfrank

Right, The Fountainhead is a terrorist manifesto that culminates with the dynamiting of a building out of spite, along with a trial and jury nullification based on the purported value of a person’s ego. This makes it much worse. It’s a blatant rejection of the rule of law, and a piece of pure concentrated evil.

The review of it I read didn’t put it that way, but I do hear you and I don’t disagree. We’ll talk about this more and you may well bring me to your view.

BBL

208 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:48:50pm

re: #198 talon_262

And they’re a later entry to the LGF Class of 2004…coincidence?

I think not…

Fucking 2004 bastards…

209 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:50:15pm

re: #205 goddamnedfrank

And worst of all, the writing sucks.

210 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:50:26pm

re: #208 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking 2004 bastards…

Present company excepted ;-P

211 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:50:37pm

re: #208 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2004 was a bad vintage. The grapes turned to vinegar every time they saw the light of day.

212 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:52:02pm

re: #191 Cato the Elder

I noticed that too. Not exactly my cup of tea. More like intellectual cyanide.

213 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:52:52pm

re: #210 talon_262

Present company excepted ;-P

HEYYYYY! I am of the class 2004!! (had to click my nic to see for sure)

214 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:54:12pm

re: #195 Dark_Falcon

This my answer to you, and why I side with Imam Rauf: He’s not a hater. He does not talk or act like the haters who attack him. Here’s a column from a man named Scott Wheeler, who runs a PAC called the National Republican Trust and vocally opposes Park 51:

SNIP

I’ll post the full column later tonight on a LGF Page, but this excerpt shows the hate that just drips off the page. This is why I think Park 51 isn’t a bad thing: because the man who wants to build it is not a hater and his detractors are. Not building it hands the haters a win.

I see now that you’ve decided to drop your often repeated, unsupported, dishonest, bullshit accusations that Rauf wears masks. I guess even a chameleon like yourself can only project so much before the game gets old.

215 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:54:24pm

re: #213 Crimsonfisted

HEYYY! I am of the class 2004!! (had to click my nic to see for sure)

I rest my case.
/

216 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:56:44pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Who died and made you the king of New York? What gives you the authority to restrict other people’s Constitutional rights?

I don’t need forever.

Image: 26b3d55510723b4b3f5077f5f3ce93d8dc1e4b4c_m.jpg

Looks a bit dated these days, but still enjoyable.

217 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:56:49pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I see now that you’ve decided to drop your often repeated, unsupported, dishonest, bullshit accusations that Rauf wears masks. I guess even a chameleon like yourself can only project so much before the game gets old.

Or, maybe he’s simply been convinced by the evidence.

People can learn, and grow. In fact, the best of us make it a point to keep informed and do just that.

218 Cato the Elder  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:57:29pm

re: #204 JamesWI

Phil Davison, set to Braveheart:

I hope he’s getting help.

219 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:59:07pm

re: #215 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I rest my case.
/

Are we the only ones left?

220 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 5:59:56pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I see now that you’ve decided to drop your often repeated, unsupported, dishonest, bullshit accusations that Rauf wears masks. I guess even a chameleon like yourself can only project so much before the game gets old.


wow

221 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:00:13pm

re: #204 JamesWI

I’m both deeply inspired and deeply having stomach heavings from laughing so hard.

222 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:00:51pm

re: #178 brookly red

Close enough to see the New Year’s Eve steam whistles.

223 Kragar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:01:27pm

re: #219 Crimsonfisted

Are we the only ones left?

You, Me and Cato are the only ones who come to mind.

224 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:01:32pm

re: #216 negativ

You need another minute - link broken. :)

225 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:01:35pm

re: #217 reine.de.tout

Or, maybe he’s simply been convinced by the evidence.

People can learn, and grow. In fact, the best of us make it a point to keep informed and do just that.

You make a good point, but Dark has a long history here of embracing his own divisive emotions and emotional reasoning only to walk them back later when confronted with the LGF community’s rational zeitgeist. I find the pattern incredibly tiresome, that’s all.

226 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:02:02pm

re: #222 Gail Wynand Wannabe

But not close enough to answer a question?

227 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:03:27pm

re: #222 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Close enough to see the New Year’s Eve steam whistles.

well well well… my advice is not to cast your pearls if you know what I mean.

228 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:04:17pm

re: #227 brookly red

I’m curious. Who are the swine?

229 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:04:33pm

re: #226 Irenicum

But not close enough to answer a question?

wow why would anyone want to deal with a little green inquisition ?

230 Crimsonfisted  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:04:42pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

oh WOW. Really. wow.


and I had quotes around my comment that disappeared. Weird.

231 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:05:15pm

re: #229 brookly red

What’s your point?

232 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:05:21pm

re: #228 Irenicum

I’m curious. Who are the swine?

swinehood is in the eye of the beholder :)

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:05:29pm

re: #228 Irenicum

They ain’t the ones with the pearls in front of them, that’s fer sher…

234 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:05:58pm

re: #232 brookly red

Ah. Thanks for the non-answer.

235 darthstar  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:06:16pm

re: #218 Cato the Elder

I hope he’s getting help.

I hope he gets offered the 5pm slot on Fox.

236 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:06:24pm

re: #231 Irenicum

What’s your point?

my point is I probably know the individual in question.

237 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:06:40pm

re: #190 brookly red

The Kum Kau Restaurant has been on the corner of Mrytle and Washington for as long as I can remember. I was even around when there was a Myrtle Avenue elevated train. Am I authentic enough now?

238 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:07:01pm

re: #236 brookly red

So once again then. Who would be the swine you were referring to?

239 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:08:05pm

re: #237 Gail Wynand Wannabe

The Kum Kau Restaurant has been on the corner of Mrytle and Washington for as long as I can remember. I was even around when there was a Myrtle Avenue elevated train. Am I authentic enough now?

well back in the days of the el train they were on Classon… but close enough.

240 Jadespring  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:08:08pm

Don’t want to interrupt but just wanted to say hi.

It’s been a while. :)

241 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:08:11pm

re: #237 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Authentic has nothing to do with an address. It has everything to do with an attitude.

242 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:08:38pm

re: #238 Irenicum

So once again then. Who would be the swine you were referring to?

get a warrant

243 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:10:41pm

re: #241 Irenicum

Authentic has nothing to do with an address. It has everything to do with an attitude.

bite me.

244 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:10:43pm

re: #193 goddamnedfrank


Didn’t like Atlas Shrugged so much because it was more of a polemic. The Fountainhead was my favorite because the good guy won in the end. We the Living was edged out cuz Kira died in the end. And yeah, I know Gail Wynand killed himself. What else is a storybook honorable man to do when he discovers he’s compromised his core princeples? I am still seeing the ad hominem. How about addressing my idea?

245 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:11:27pm

re: #243 brookly red

No thanks. I have better taste.

246 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:12:25pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

I see now that you’ve decided to drop your often repeated, unsupported, dishonest, bullshit accusations that Rauf wears masks. I guess even a chameleon like yourself can only project so much before the game gets old.

That is a little harsh, don’t you think? Quite unnecessary.

247 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #199 Irenicum

I have already said rebuild The Twin Towers first. After that, build anything you want there. What’s with the moral imperative to build the Cultural Center first?

248 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:14:21pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I warned you hommie…

249 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:14:32pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I have already said rebuild The Twin Towers first. After that, build anything you want there. What’s with the moral imperative to build the Cultural Center first?

Moral imperative? Someone bought the property to build a mosque. Why shouldn’t he be able to do so?

250 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:15:14pm

re: #175 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Irenicum:

I was born, raised and grew up in NY, near Pratt Intstitute in Brooklyn til my thirties. So, I unnastan how things work there.

This cultural center is a provocation, one I think everyone defending it knows in his heart-of-hearts. There are 100+ mosques already in the five boroughs. Why is it so important to put this one there? In the interest of fairness, I would say no one can build there till The Twin Towers are rebuilt. Is that ok with you?

You think wrong in my case for sure and I think many more.
And making a cultural center wait for the Freedom Towers is pandering to phobia at best, bigotry at worst. Giving in to fear mongering is a step backwards, to the red scare days. It’s not a provocation, it’s genuine outreach-dead opposite. If you want a pekk at my heart on the matter feel free to look up a few of my comments, particularly during the CNN interview with Rauf.

251 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:17:51pm

re: #242 brookly red

get a warrant

LOL

best dodge in awhile.

252 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:18:51pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

It’s not which is built first. It’s learning to live with how NYC works. Why is that a problem with you? I wish the Towers were already rebuilt. Everyone does. But why has this plan suddenly become the hot button issue that it wasn’t only last year, even though the plans were already in the works? What drastically changed?

253 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:19:30pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I have already said rebuild The Twin Towers first. After that, build anything you want there. What’s with the moral imperative to build the Cultural Center first?

So should the 9/11 Memorial that’s to be opened next year on Ground Zero also have been held off until One World Trade Center was completed? How about the 5-story shopping complex that’s next door, also on Ground Zero?

You want to tell all the folks who own property at least 2 blocks away from Ground Zero that they can’t do anything with their property until at least 2013, when One World Trade is supposed to be completed?

254 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:19:32pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I have already said rebuild The Twin Towers first. After that, build anything you want there. What’s with the moral imperative to build the Cultural Center first?

Vastly uninformed for someone who lives there. But we’ve seen this before.

Read and learn

lawhawk.blogspot.com

255 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:19:40pm

re: #247 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I have already said rebuild The Twin Towers first. After that, build anything you want there. What’s with the moral imperative to build the Cultural Center first?

There is no moral imperative at work here. The property at Park 51 has been secured by a private party and that party has a right to build there now. That’s it.

256 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:19:48pm

re: #251 Stanley Sea

LOL

best dodge in awhile.

what dodge Mam? I just have standards that I fell the need to enforce.

257 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:22:10pm

re: #199 Irenicum

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

258 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:22:28pm

re: #256 brookly red

Yes. After all, we are in a court of law.

259 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:24pm

RWC - been kind of looking for you. Do you follow people on twitter? if so, you (and Charles, and any photobug) will like this one I’m following:

twitter.com

Excellent tweets.

260 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:27pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Um, we’re not Saudi Arabia. That’s part of our appeal.

261 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:37pm

re: #240 Jadespring

Don’t want to interrupt but just wanted to say hi.

It’s been a while. :)

Yay! You are alive! :) (seriously, though, I had been wondering what happened, since you used to comment on such a regular basis - good to see you back!)

262 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:46pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

BOOGA BOOGA

263 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:47pm

re: #255 eclectic infidel

There is no moral imperative at work here. The property at Park 51 has been secured by a private party and that party has a right to build there now. That’s it.

You would think someone named after an Ayn Rand character would understand that.
Ironically, he seems to be advocating collectivism.

264 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:51pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

What the hell does S.A. have anything to do with this? I never understood that ridiculous argument.

We have a constitution that allows the man to build his mosque. We don’t let him, everybody loses.

265 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:23:59pm

re: #157 Stanley Sea

Gone, finis. I checked out the stalker blog where she’s at (thought someone here today was there, false alarm) and she’s happily back to using her piss on God icon.

wheee!

Not to pile on, but I remember the thread where she got banned, she got all pissed off that someone said the word “Goddamn!” I believe her words were something like “How dare you take the Lord’s name in vain over such a matter” or some such.

I thought that was rich, given the whole picture kerfuffle. “Respect my God, while I piss on yours!”

266 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:24:53pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

Why is it a “problem”? Because you don’t believe that we, in a nation that prides itself on freedom, liberty, and diversity, should do anything less than hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of 19 fanatics? That we should, as a nation, exercise collective punishment on all of Islam, treating them as less than equal because of what the worst amongst them do in their deity’s name?

267 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:25:37pm

re: #260 Irenicum

Um, we’re not Saudi Arabia. That’s part of our appeal.

It is the weakest argument, and one that shows ignorance, to compare and demand that we in the US act in anyway like Saudi Arabia. (while being attached to their oil and land for our military bases etc.)

WEAK

268 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:25:40pm

re: #264 marjoriemoon

Yes. But don’t you see? They’re “other”!!!

269 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:27:29pm

re: #265 JamesWI

Hypocritebingo!

270 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:27:54pm

re: #268 Irenicum

Yes. But don’t you see? They’re “other”!!!

Indeed. People like this don’t realize when they will be the Other.

271 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:29:47pm

re: #270 marjoriemoon

Indeed. People like this don’t realize when they will be the Other.

Exactly. They want us to be more like Saudi Arabia. Then we can control everything!

272 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:29:59pm

re: #252 Irenicum

Follow me here. Why did they name it the “Cordoba Center?” Why not just build a run-of-the-mill mosque? You understand the significance of “Cordoba?”

Rauf has questionable ties. He’s given a pass. Jones, the marginalized Koran-threatener, is being analyzed six ways from Sunday. You don’t see the problem?

273 Gus  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:30:57pm

Oh. A Fountainhead/Ayn Rand/Objectivist cultist.

Read the Fountainhead! It explains everything!

L. Ron Hubbard Ayn Rand

274 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:31:47pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Follow me here. Why did they name it the “Cordoba Center?” Why not just build a run-of-the-mill mosque? You understand the significance of “Cordoba?”

Rauf has questionable ties. He’s given a pass. Jones, the marginalized Koran-threatener, is being analyzed six ways from Sunday. You don’t see the problem?

You really need to force your head out of Geller’s ass.

275 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:31:59pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

The fact that we are not in Saudi Arabia just reinforces the idea that the center should be built at Park 51.

276 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:32:01pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

You are a bigot. Bottom line. Just say it out loud, people with your arguments never are brave enough to do that though.

277 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:32:19pm

re: #253 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Listen, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Why is everyone so hot to build a Muslim Cultural Center there? Did I miss something?

278 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:32:25pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Excuse me, “Rauf” has questionable ties? Like he worked for our government under Bush? There is a huge difference between legally getting your building permit and erecting a community center and staging a book burning to “teach a lesson” to some religion. Hate may be an American tradition, but hardly one we should cultivate.

279 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:34:41pm

re: #277 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Listen, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Why is everyone so hot to build a Muslim Cultural Center there? Did I miss something?

He’s had a mosque in the area already 27 years. Why does it bother you now?

280 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:35:19pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes, I do see the problem. You need to read something other than totalizing anti-Islam fascist pamphlets. Islam is no more monolithic than any other religion. Again. Why the outrage now?

281 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:35:55pm

This cultural center is a provocation, one I think everyone defending it knows in his heart-of-hearts

i’m sorry, this is practically pathological as a thought process. you might as well be interpreting a priest’s clerical collar as a comment on the damnation of your immortal soul

if you are so naive that you unable to see how you are being manipulated, your fate will continue to be to drool on command at whatever distraction or rabble rousing is designed for you

282 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:36:04pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Follow me here. Why did they name it the “Cordoba Center?” Why not just build a run-of-the-mill mosque? You understand the significance of “Cordoba?”

Damn, seems we’re gonna hit all the talking points tonight. You know, I notice how ya’ll keep getting hung up on the name Cordoba, but always seem to leave out the part where the Christians, after retaking the city, tortured, executed, or expelled all those that refused to convert and also some that did.

Rauf has questionable ties. He’s given a pass. Jones, the marginalized Koran-threatener, is being analyzed six ways from Sunday. You don’t see the problem?

Always love that, “questionable ties.” Oooh, how “scary.” Of course, none of those ties can be proven to be guilty of anything except the crime of being Muslim. And if there was something in the man’s background that would be cause for concern, it’s likely that the State Department would have brought it up by now. They have, after all, been funding his Mid-East excursions since the Bush days.

283 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:36:32pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

And by the way. Do you really believe that Rauf has been given a pass?

284 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:37:52pm

re: #276 Stanley Sea

Yeah, ok, I am a bigot. If that makes you feel better…

285 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:37:53pm

re: #277 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Listen, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Why is everyone so hot to build a Muslim Cultural Center there? Did I miss something?

Perhaps because those of us who support it decided that the lesson of 9/11 should not be “Muslims are bad, m’kay”?

286 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:38:44pm

re: #272 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Follow me here. Why did they name it the “Cordoba Center?” Why not just build a run-of-the-mill mosque? You understand the significance of “Cordoba?”

Rauf has questionable ties. He’s given a pass. Jones, the marginalized Koran-threatener, is being analyzed six ways from Sunday. You don’t see the problem?

None of this is germane.

The mosque should be built now precisely because people like you are determined to link the 19 murderous bastards to every Muslim, everywhere.

Here’s the deal: In America, we don’t excoriate Jews because of Bernie Madoff or Meyer Lansky. We don’t assign criminal status to Italian Americans because of Al Capone or Lucky Luciano.

When you agree to excoriate Jews, Italians and African Americans and not just Muslims because there are criminals in those groups, your sincere good intent will not be in question.

You are a freakin’ bigot.

Piss on you.

287 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:40:49pm

re: #286 researchok

Geez- next thing you know I’ll be wearing sandals and a hemp sweaters.
/

288 zora  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:42:02pm

re: #287 researchok

they’re both quite comfy. you’ll see. /

289 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:42:49pm

re: #286 researchok

kudos, excellent post.

290 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:43:10pm

re: #283 Irenicum

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

291 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:45:26pm

by the logic of the mosque opponents, it’s a wonder that the japanese will allow christian churches to be built in nagasaki or hiroshima - after all, the people that bombed them were christians

292 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:45:26pm

re: #286 researchok

None of this is germane.

The mosque should be built now precisely because people like you are determined to link the 19 murderous bastards to every Muslim, everywhere.

Here’s the deal: In America, we don’t excoriate Jews because of Bernie Madoff or Meyer Lansky. We don’t assign criminal status to Italian Americans because of Al Capone or Lucky Luciano.

When you agree to excoriate Jews, Italians and African Americans and not just Muslims because there are criminals in those groups, your sincere good intent will not be in question.

You are a freakin’ bigot.

Piss on you.

That was very good :)

After Pearl Harbor, “we” didn’t trust the Japanese either. You would think we’d have learned something over all of these years. Luckily, the Constitution is there for that very reason.

293 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:45:43pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Its not “the imperative to build now” — it’s the lack of any reason under American law not to build now. Why should a law abiding group not be able to practice their faith just because Pam Geller and her ilk don’t like them? Freedom is wonderful when you mouth the words, when you have to let people you don’t like use it, thats the test.

294 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:46:06pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

There is no imperative. Stop injecting that into the equation. Simply put, it should be built because someone wants to build it, has clearance to build it, and has every intention of building it pending appropriate funding. Now if you don’t like that, too bad. You’ll need to find an outlet for your feelings. Maybe join a support group of like-minded people. Or something.

295 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:46:35pm

re: #259 Stanley Sea

Hi
I just have not found time for twitter. Nor facebook. I can be found at linkdin however… Or you are welcome to email me anytime

296 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:47:58pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I understand the Constitutional issues.


Obviously not.

297 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:48:39pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

You are not asking reasonable questions. Sorry to break the news to you.

298 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:48:58pm

re: #289 Stanley Sea

kudos, excellent post.

TY

Fact is, this wole thing is making me crazy.

I for one wanted to see the mosque built elsewhere. I can understand that it might be upsetting for some people.Now, I want it there for the reasons I laid out.

Ground Zero is not owned by families of victims. Bush, Obama or anyone else who may come down the road- sorry. GZ is owned by America and the best thing America can do to piss in the face of the beasts who carried and supported the heinous act, is to show them that now. more than ever, we will identify with American values.

Let the bastards know that they have awoken the Beast of Democracy.

Screw the bigots.

299 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:49:25pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

Oh gee, is it that time already? “You’re all mean! I’m just asking questions!” Yeah, and we’re just supplying answers. If you don’t like the answers, then either stop asking questions or go ask them elsewhere.

Sell crazy someplace else, we’re all stocked up here.

300 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:49:59pm

re: #227 brookly red

Sorry, I just read your response here. I will stop now. All the responses before were like randori…

Just a pain in the tuchas…

301 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:50:01pm

re: #291 engineer dog

Stop trying. It won’t work with this one.

302 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:50:08pm

re: #295 Rightwingconspirator

Hi
I just have not found time for twitter. Nor facebook. I can be found at linkdin however… Or you are welcome to email me anytime

You must check out this guy’s site though - excellent photos and equip reviews.

petapixel.com

303 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:50:43pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

Same as the imperative to build anything else. There are lots of potential customers: Thousands of Muslims live and work near Park 51; Tens of thousands of Muslims live in Manhattan; 100,000+ in the greater NYC area.

Why shouldn’t they have the same rights to build community centers that we assume all others have—Christian, Jew, whatever?

And don’t give me the hallowed ground argument. It was a freakin coat factory.

304 Jadespring  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:51:16pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe


See that’s the thing. You might think they’re ‘reasonable’ questions when really they’re just questions based on propaganda and whole lot of BS that’s floating around right now which by default makes then not really that ‘reasonable.’

Like the Cordoba thing- An example of propaganda at it’s very finest. You’ve been had on that one.

305 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:51:53pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

I’ll not call you names. Not my style.
So lets talk this through.
The “imperative” is the simple desire of those involved. They want a place to do some perfectly reasonable things. Gather, talk, study, pray. There is no imperative required. The local Muslims would like a place to gather and pray. The location does not give us the right to stop them.

306 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:53:36pm

re: #303 palomino

But but but it’s a “holy ground” coat factory!!!

307 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:53:53pm

re: #302 Stanley Sea

You must check out this guy’s site though - excellent photos and equip reviews.

[Link: www.petapixel.com…]

OMG!! I’m in there…

308 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:54:09pm

re: #306 Irenicum

If they have to close even one topless bar to build that thing, I want them to get an EIR

309 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:54:41pm

re: #308 daddylawbucks

Let the boob thread begin!

310 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:55:52pm

re: #257 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Try that in Saudi Arabia. I suspect the result would be different.

You can dismiss me as a kook, as all the others here are doing by commenting on my moniker. We live in a protected zone, here in the US. There’s gonna be a point where we ain’t in that zone anymore. I think the fact that we are debating the propriety (not the right) of a “mosque” being built where 19 Saudis knocked down The Twin Towers is a problem.

“There’s going to be a point when we ain’t in that zone” is the same paranoid twaddle I’ve been reading on right wing blogs. Cowards to afraid to defend American ideals.

311 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:56:19pm

re: #310 prairiefire

pimf too

312 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:56:27pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

You don’t understand the Constitutional issues because if they meant anything to you, we wouldn’t be having the conversation.

We are a system of laws in this country. We aren’t a theocracy or a monarchy. We don’t allow the emotions of people, even if it’s the majority of people, to change the law at their whim.

You don’t think people should have freedom of religion to build a house of worship anywhere they please, take it to the supreme court.

Why don’t you bitch about the Westboro Church if you’re so interested in harmful religions.

313 researchok  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 6:57:02pm

re: #290 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. Look at the blogosphere. I am being excoriated as a bigot, a mouth-breather and less-than-child-of-God because I am asking reasonable questions. And I’m just a somewhat anonymous commenter on a blog.

I understand the Constitutional issues. I am pretty well read, even for someone who’s read Ayn Rand. What is the imperative to build the Cultural Center now?

You are being excoriated because you are bigot.

In the civil war, some Christians and Jews in the South were taught that the Bible supported slavery. Others clergy in the North and the South called slavery out for what it was- evil and unacceptable.

19 beasts used the Quran to justify their hate. Not every Muslim does the same, no matter how much you want them to.

I can assure if Rauf and company turn out to be racist bigots, New Yorkers and others will run them out of town on a rail. Until then, get used to your new neighbors, bigot.

314 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:00:44pm

re: #312 marjoriemoon

re: #312 marjoriemoon

I guess I didn’t bitch because I don’t have to worry about Christians rioting in the streets on a regular basis in the US at every provocation. I live in a country where I don’t have to worry that my life will be taken over some religious disagreement, even this one. Do you remember “Piss Christ?”

315 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:03:39pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Actually. I know this may come as a surprise to you, but I agree. There is a real difference between Islam and Christianity on how they are represented visually. They are not the same in how they react.

316 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:04:59pm

re: #315 Irenicum

Actually. I know this may come as a surprise to you, but I agree. There is a real difference between Islam and Christianity on how they are represented visually. They are not the same in how they react.

no shit?

317 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:05:19pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

LOL Piss Christ. This is the 2nd time someone has brought up that old piece of art.

Tell me, Free Republic? The Daily Caller? Where are you being reminded of this?

318 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:06:26pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

wrap your mind around this: Freedom means that people you DONT like have the right to vote, buy property, and do all the stuff that people you do like can do. That is what makes us the “good guys” we have real freedom, so even people you disagree with can hold a march, or build their building.

319 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:06:46pm

re: #305 Rightwingconspirator

There are already 100+ mosques in The City. They were already able to gather, talk, study and pray in the existing mosques. Why is there such a ruckus to build this one?

320 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:07:00pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

re: #312 marjoriemoon

I guess I didn’t bitch because I don’t have to worry about Christians rioting in the streets on a regular basis in the US at every provocation. I live in a country where I don’t have to worry that my life will be taken over some religious disagreement, even this one. Do you remember “Piss Christ?”

You’re conflating American Muslims with extremists around the world. We weren’t attacked by Americans. For someone who wears 9/11 on their sleeve, I would think you’d remember that.

You distrust American Muslims, it would seem and I don’t see any reason for that.

321 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:07:07pm

re: #316 brookly red

Haha. I’ll agree when it’s appropriate. Not when it’s not.

322 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:07:09pm

re: #317 Stanley Sea

LOL Piss Christ. This is the 2nd time someone has brought up that old piece of art.

Tell me, Free Republic? The Daily Caller? Where are you being reminded of this?

What was really the controversy with Piss Christ? The offensive nature of the work or the fact that it was funded by the NEA? (or both)

323 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:07:45pm

re: #317 Stanley Sea

LOL Piss Christ. This is the 2nd time someone has brought up that old piece of art.

Tell me, Free Republic? The Daily Caller? Where are you being reminded of this?

OK try real hard to understand this, but some people really do have an opinion beyond what a blog tells them to do…

324 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:07:47pm

re: #319 Gail Wynand Wannabe

There are already 100+ mosques in The City. They were already able to gather, talk, study and pray in the existing mosques. Why is there such a ruckus to build this one?

You have that backwards. There is a manufactured ruckus against building this project.

325 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:09:05pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

I guess I didn’t bitch because I don’t have to worry about Christians rioting in the streets on a regular basis in the US at every provocation. I live in a country where I don’t have to worry that my life will be taken over some religious disagreement, even this one. Do you remember “Piss Christ?”

perhaps you would like us to reherse all the violent acts christians have committed in the name of religion, in and among all the horrifying and awful things we humans have done in our sad and discouraging voyage toward someday being worthy of our ideals

326 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:10:16pm

re: #319 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes. And as we all know, 100+ Mosques is obviously too much for NYC. Again your point was?

327 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:10:24pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

You should have been in Los Angeles in 1991……..

328 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:11:25pm

re: #322 eclectic infidel

What was really the controversy with Piss Christ? The offensive nature of the work or the fact that it was funded by the NEA? (or both)

Both. More (in my mind) the puritan reach into what should and should not be Govt funded. And along came faith based initiatives.

Hypocrites.

329 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:12:43pm

re: #323 brookly red

OK try real hard to understand this, but some people really do have an opinion beyond what a blog tells them to do…

But Piss Christ? Recently brought up? Sorry, if it’s in these peoples minds, some 25 years later I’m questioning them with the benefit of the doubt that they are getting riled up from something they are reading.

330 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:13:04pm

re: #324 jaunte

No, I think the disapproval was already there. The catterwauling is because the disapproval is now more visible. This Jones brought it to the forefront.

331 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:14:02pm

re: #330 Gail Wynand Wannabe

No, I think the disapproval was already there. The catterwauling is because the disapproval is now more visible. This Jones brought it to the forefront.

That’s where the Constitution comes in, and caterwauling doesn’t matter. Lucky for us all.

332 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:15:19pm

re: #330 Gail Wynand Wannabe

No, I think the disapproval was already there. The catterwauling is because the disapproval is now more visible. This Jones brought it to the forefront.

CHECKMATE.

Bigots unite!

333 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:18:08pm

I’m a Muslim. I’m a Christian. I’m an atheist. I’m a Hindu. I’m a Buddhist.

I want to build a monument to what I believe.

I also happen to be an America.

I get to build it because a cool document says I can.

Boy am I glad for the Constitution.

334 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:18:30pm

re: #329 Stanley Sea

Were you around when “Piss Christ” was first reported? I was. I was Catholic then. It was huge. And here we are now, arguing about the burning of a Koran, as if it’s the first time some religious artifact was desecrated.

Sorry. Color me insensitive, after that.

Y’all can ad hominem me all day. I am not sure my argument has been addressed though…

335 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:19:52pm

re: #334 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Yes it has. Bigotry has been expressed.

336 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:21:57pm

re: #333 Irenicum

I’m a Muslim. I’m a Christian. I’m an atheist. I’m a Hindu. I’m a Buddhist.

I want to build a monument to what I believe.

I also happen to be an America.

I get to build it because a cool document says I can.

Boy am I glad for the Constitution.

Made me think of Meredith Brooks.

Youtube Video
337 brookly red  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:24:00pm

re: #335 Irenicum

Yes it has. Bigotry has been expressed.

yes when in doubt cry bigot… the mark of a true intellectual.

338 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:25:11pm

re: #334 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Were you around when “Piss Christ” was first reported? I was. I was Catholic then. It was huge. And here we are now, arguing about the burning of a Koran, as if it’s the first time some religious artifact was desecrated.

Sorry. Color me insensitive, after that.

Y’all can ad hominem me all day. I am not sure my argument has been addressed though…

Well that’s the thing though, you haven’t really made a coherent argument. Regarding the torching of the Koran or the Crucifix submerged in urine, that’s either something you’re going to find offensive or not. Personally, I find neither offensive but were such actions up to me, I wouldn’t bother to burn a holy book or douse a symbol in body waste - and then make it known to the public at large. That’s just not me.

339 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:26:01pm

re: #337 brookly red

Yeah. That stupid Constitution. What an anti-American document.

340 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:27:21pm

re: #325 engineer dog

Well, that was then (pre-twentieth-century). This is now. You can Google plenty of atrocities in the current non-West. You wanna live in those places, and spout the Christian rhetoric about “…love thy neighbor…”, please, be my guest.

I will ask this way then. Say your kid was snatched and killed by some jamoke. You recovered your kids body and decided to bury it in a specific plot. The jamoke was later found and killed by the police. The jamoke’s family bought a plot right next to your kid’s plot, to bury the jamoke. Surely, that is okay by Constitutional standards. But is that ok? C’mon now…

341 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:27:54pm

re: #334 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Were you around when “Piss Christ” was first reported? I was. I was Catholic then. It was huge. And here we are now, arguing about the burning of a Koran, as if it’s the first time some religious artifact was desecrated.

Sorry. Color me insensitive, after that.

Y’all can ad hominem me all day. I am not sure my argument has been addressed though…

Actually I do recall in the itty bitty bit of my brain the outrage. No affect then, no affect now= 25 years later. I’m laughing though, because you and another LGF poster has recently brought it up IN DEFENSE OF THE BURNING OF KORANS.

Where are you getting your feed from is my question. Honest answer please

342 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:29:16pm

re: #337 brookly red

Ok. I will stop now. Stop defending please. I unnastan what’s goin’ on now. Couldn’t help myself before…

343 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:29:24pm

re: #337 brookly red

yes when in doubt cry bigot… the mark of a true intellectual.

Disprove it Brookly. You never do. It’s more offense, which really shows more.

344 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:30:29pm

re: #337 brookly red

yes when in doubt cry bigot… the mark of a true intellectual.

I don’t think anyone’s in doubt.

345 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:32:17pm

re: #340 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Well, that was then (pre-twentieth-century). This is now. You can Google plenty of atrocities in the current non-West. You wanna live in those places, and spout the Christian rhetoric about “…love thy neighbor…”, please, be my guest.

I will ask this way then. Say your kid was snatched and killed by some jamoke. You recovered your kids body and decided to bury it in a specific plot. The jamoke was later found and killed by the police. The jamoke’s family bought a plot right next to your kid’s plot, to bury the jamoke. Surely, that is okay by Constitutional standards. But is that ok? C’mon now…

OMG you’re an idiot. No one is buried in THE BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY.

By your definition, there should be no buildings by the WTC, and there are, nor should Muslims be allowed to set foot near the site!

346 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:32:42pm

re: #340 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Well, that was then (pre-twentieth-century). This is now. You can Google plenty of atrocities in the current non-West. You wanna live in those places, and spout the Christian rhetoric about “…love thy neighbor…”, please, be my guest.

i’m sorry, there is no statute of limitations that allows you to become self righteous

I will ask this way then. Say your kid was snatched and killed by some jamoke. You recovered your kids body and decided to bury it in a specific plot. The jamoke was later found and killed by the police. The jamoke’s family bought a plot right next to your kid’s plot, to bury the jamoke. Surely, that is okay by Constitutional standards. But is that ok? C’mon now…

you seem unable to grasp the simple point that merely being a muslim does not make you a member of al Qaida

347 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:33:12pm

re: #342 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Ok. I will stop now. Stop defending please. I unnastan what’s goin’ on now. Couldn’t help myself before…

You don’t understand that one person or group’s fear of what might happen if another group has equal rights is irrelevant if you believe in equality under the law. The only arguments you’ve advanced are based in fear and prejudice.

348 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:36:53pm

re: #340 Gail Wynand Wannabe

It seems you put much importance to the term jamoke. I’ve never heard of it before. You use it repeatedly in your post. It seems to mean something important to you. Not sure why. Odd. Why?

349 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:37:34pm

re: #346 engineer dog

i’m sorry, there is no statute of limitations that allows you to become self righteous

you seem unable to grasp the simple point that merely being a muslim does not make you a member of al Qaida

And that! Is the whole point and problem.

350 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:37:51pm

re: #246 blueraven

That is a little harsh, don’t you think? Quite unnecessary.

I’m not exactly here to play nice and make friends, my karma ratio notwithstanding. I’m here be honest, brutally honest, utterly frank and earnest. When people time and again allow Dark to walk back his baseless, deceptive, emotionally based bullshit without commentary they’re just setting themselves up for him to repeat the pattern again later. It’s impossible for me to respect this kind of go along to get along, chicken-shit cowardice. He’s got to learn that integrity is at least partially based on consistency and having the courage to stand up and own one’s personal convictions.

So from where I sit, it was quite necessary.

351 Jadespring  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:39:43pm

re: #340 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Well, that was then (pre-twentieth-century). This is now. You can Google plenty of atrocities in the current non-West. You wanna live in those places, and spout the Christian rhetoric about “…love thy neighbor…”, please, be my guest.

I will ask this way then. Say your kid was snatched and killed by some jamoke. You recovered your kids body and decided to bury it in a specific plot. The jamoke was later found and killed by the police. The jamoke’s family bought a plot right next to your kid’s plot, to bury the jamoke. Surely, that is okay by Constitutional standards. But is that ok? C’mon now…

This analogy makes it pretty clear where your mind is at. Sure that would be troubling. The only way though for your analogy to work though is if one or you in this case equate the terrorists that killed the people on 9/11 with the people that are building the center. To be blunt that the Muslim terrorists are the Muslims building the Mosque, that they’re the same “jamoke”. That’s just wrong. The Muslims building the center did not perpetrate 9/11. Muslims died in 9/11 too. Islam and Muslims as a whole did not kill all those people.

352 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #338 eclectic infidel

Do this for me then…

Submerge the Koran in a Mason jar of urine and photograph it. Make a public announcement that you did that, with your name attached, like Andres Serrano has. You willing to do that? Then do it. Publicize it. Tell me about tolerance two months later.

Y’all are so quick to denigrate Christians. No risk there…

353 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:43:03pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Projecting a bit? Exactly who was denigrating the Christians? You don’t have to believe that Muslims are great, or nice or even rational. Just get it through your head that regardless of what you think of them, the folks building this center are AMERICANS, so you don’t have the right to tell them not to. How is that difficult?

354 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:44:44pm

The two issues for me are different. There’s the building of the mosque and there’s the burning of the Koran. In this country, you can burn a Koran, a Torah, a Cross, a flag, snatch a holy wafer from communion, do all kinds of mean, nasty, horrifying stuff and it’s all protected. It should be protected anyway. This is America, for goodness sake. You get to be an asshole.

So it goes without saying then, that law abiding, well-established citizens who aren’t assholes, should have every right to build a house of worship in a place allowed by law.

The irony here is part of what Imam Rauf does is try to explain to foreign Muslims that you can be a Muslim in a democratic republic. Hard to make that point when people want to shut him down and I guess harder still when people are burning the Koran. All the more reason why he MUST get to build his mosque. That despite prejudice, the law is fair to all.

355 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:44:52pm

I just like this article. Thought I’d share here rather than the spin off links

Visiting Ground Zero, Asking Allah for Comfort

356 blueraven  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:48:32pm

re: #350 goddamnedfrank

I’m not exactly here to play nice and make friends, my karma ratio notwithstanding. I’m here be honest, brutally honest, utterly frank and earnest. When people time and again allow Dark to walk back his baseless, deceptive, emotionally based bullshit without commentary they’re just setting themselves up for him to repeat the pattern again later. It’s impossible for me to respect this kind of go along to get along, chicken-shit cowardice. He’s got to learn that integrity is at least partially based on consistency and having the courage to stand up and own one’s personal convictions.

So from where I sit, it was quite necessary.

I have disagreed with DF on many issues. But you don’t know him, and to call him all of those names is just mean spirited. DF is a conservative, but normally a reasonable if partisan one. Damn the Karma dude.

357 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:48:33pm

re: #355 eclectic infidel

A great NYT’s article.

358 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:48:39pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Do this for me then…

Submerge the Koran in a Mason jar of urine and photograph it. Make a public announcement that you did that, with your name attached, like Andres Serrano has. You willing to do that? Then do it. Publicize it. Tell me about tolerance two months later.

Y’all are so quick to denigrate Christians. No risk there…

First off, fuck you. I’m not here to denigrate Christians, Muslims, or anyone else. If a holy book is torched, or a religious symbol is submerged in something gross, odds are I’m not going to take offense because I’m not a religious person. That said, I am also not to sort to do what you suggest - and you know why? Because I don’t like to be an asshole to people, even people I don’t know. I’m not going to play your stupid game you wanker.

359 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:50:56pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe


Y’all are so quick to denigrate Christians. No risk there…

And you’re pretty damn quick to denigrate all Muslims as violent fanatics while crying victim over Piss Christ. Get the fuck over yourself already.

360 Irenicum  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:51:12pm

re: #358 eclectic infidel

Wow. Too late and too well put. In other words, fuck yeah.

361 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:51:48pm

re: #319 Gail Wynand Wannabe

The ruckus is all on the opposition. Again you have it dead backwards. Imam Rauf would have done this as quietly as his opponents allowed. Thankfully it gave him CNN to make a fair case.

362 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:51:54pm

re: #332 Stanley Sea

CHECKMATE.

Bigots unite!

It’s actually a modern phenomenon called “Crank Magnetism”, referring to the way nuts attract to each other.

363 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:51:58pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Do this for me then…

Submerge the Koran in a Mason jar of urine and photograph it. Make a public announcement that you did that, with your name attached, like Andres Serrano has. You willing to do that? Then do it. Publicize it. Tell me about tolerance two months later.

Y’all are so quick to denigrate Christians. No risk there…

apparantly you’re unable to make an argument without turning yourself into a demonstration of what is meant by the word “prejudiced”

364 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:54:00pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe
So is all this Mosque stuff just another branch of the war on Christmas?


o

365 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:54:37pm

re: #351 Jadespring

Of course, they weren’t the same guys who destroyed the buildings. But there were celebrations on that day, in muslim countries, documented by the media. We should ignore that?

Yah, there’s a billion and a half muslims in the world. if only 5 per cent are radical, that’s 75 million radicals. 19 radicals destroyed The Twin Towers. 19. I bet if you were mugged by one person different-looking than you (much less, 190, you would be pretty aware of your surroundings shortly after. And it wouldn’t matter about your ideals at that point. That is what I think this is about, nine years later…

366 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:56:01pm

re: #352 Gail Wynand Wannabe

See now you had a fair shot as decent discourse, and you come in from that mindset? Okay that is flat out a reportable comment as I see it. I look forward to your disemvowelment, but that is up to our host.

367 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:57:34pm

re: #365 Gail Wynand Wannabe

The people we’re talking about are Americans. They get treated the same as other citizens. It’s the law, and a mob can’t say different, no matter what the mob is afraid of.

368 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:57:44pm

re: #359 eclectic infidel

And you’re pretty damn quick to denigrate all Muslims as violent fanatics while crying victim over Piss Christ. Get the fuck over yourself already.

He’s doing the Butthurt Fandango. Here are the steps:

1. Come onto the blog after a long absence and drop a turd of a comment.

2. When people call attention to the turd, feign being surprised and hurt that they noticed.

3. Accuse others of dropping turds.

4. Whine and seeth when you get called out for your lies.

5. Spew insults and complain about how “things aren’t what they used to be here on LGF”.

6. Get bounced out on your ass by Charles.

7. Register on the Stalker Blog and complain about what a “tyrant” Charles is and how he banned you for no reason.

369 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 7:59:32pm

re: #365 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Of course, they weren’t the same guys who destroyed the buildings. But there were celebrations on that day, in muslim countries, documented by the media. We should ignore that?

Yah, there’s a billion and a half muslims in the world. if only 5 per cent are radical, that’s 75 million radicals. 19 radicals destroyed The Twin Towers. 19. I bet if you were mugged by one person different-looking than you (much less, 190, you would be pretty aware of your surroundings shortly after. And it wouldn’t matter about your ideals at that point. That is what I think this is about, nine years later…

Imam Rauf was not one of those celebrating, he was one of those mourning. And does he not enjoy the rights accorded to all American citizens?

370 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:00:32pm

re: #367 jaunte

The people we’re talking about are Americans. They get treated the same as other citizens. It’s the law, and a mob can’t say different, no matter what the mob is afraid of.

She/he’s been told that like 10x now and doesn’t want to listen.

Married to an agenda.

371 jaunte  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:01:18pm

re: #370 marjoriemoon

Agenda hominem!

372 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:01:56pm

re: #365 Gail Wynand Wannabe

What does any of this have to do with building a community center at Park 51? Do you know that the Imam is a Sufi? The religious whackos in Saudi Arabia would at the very least incarcerate this guy for being too liberal.

373 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:02:07pm

do you think I could get rich by holding a well publicized Bible burning?

374 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:02:51pm

re: #350 goddamnedfrank

I get it you disagree with Dark, but I just do not see a problem deserving this level of angst.

375 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:03:58pm

re: #373 daddylawbucks

do you think I could get rich by holding a well publicized Bible burning?

No, you’d spend a long time hiding from Pastor Terry and his Dominionist buddies.

376 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:04:47pm

re: #375 Dark_Falcon

hummmmm, that could be a downside……

377 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:11:19pm

re: #374 Rightwingconspirator

I get it you disagree with Dark, but I just do not see a problem deserving this level of angst.

It’s not disagreement. He’s mad that I jump the gun and state things that aren’t fully rational, then walk them back when I calm down. I tend to blame that on ADHD, but its definitely not a good thing.

378 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:15:03pm

Have an excellent weekend Lizzards…….maybe I can get rich next week marketing a Pam G sex tape? Good Night

379 Jadespring  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:16:17pm

re: #365 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Of course, they weren’t the same guys who destroyed the buildings. But there were celebrations on that day, in muslim countries, documented by the media. We should ignore that?

Yah, there’s a billion and a half muslims in the world. if only 5 per cent are radical, that’s 75 million radicals. 19 radicals destroyed The Twin Towers. 19. I bet if you were mugged by one person different-looking than you (much less, 190, you would be pretty aware of your surroundings shortly after. And it wouldn’t matter about your ideals at that point. That is what I think this is about, nine years later…

Again. Not the same. You’re still equating which is why you’re burying analogy still doesn’t work. The only way your analogy would work is if you were suggesting that the group of Muslims building the centre were the same as those that killed on 9/11. Actually the more you write, like again with this comment I get why your burial analogy makes sense to you. Doesn’t make it right though.

And yeah I have been mugged. The guy was male and did look different. Yes I became more aware of my surroundings however I’m not freaked out and want all males who look different then me to get the hell away from wherever I happen to be. Nor do I blame all different looking males for what that guy did.

380 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:16:25pm

re: #378 daddylawbucks

Have an excellent weekend Lizzards…maybe I can get rich next week marketing a Pam G sex tape? Good Night

BRAIN BLEECH, STAT!!

381 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:17:19pm

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

Listen, If you think I am spewing turds, fine. I think we don’t agree on the disposition of the Cordoba Center. Surely reasonble people can disagree, right?

I have been lurking on this blog since the Dan Rather thing. I don’t think I commented often, but I will answer for those postings if someone disagrees. Ad hominem seems to be the main tactic here nowadays. It really wasn’t like that before. Forgive my sentimentalism.

The problem, that hasn’t been addressed, is _why_ now, at this address? Yah, there’s a right to build it. I can burn a Koran. But should I? I think that is the question that should be answered. All the cranky ones yelling are saying “It’s a Constitutional right.” True. But it _should_ not be built there. Just like the Koran _should not_ be burned in Florida. Why do you think that your opinions trump the people that have to live with this, Constitution not-with-standing? Would you be ok with a billboard on the street opposite the Cordoba Center with the Denmark cartoons of Mohammed, assuming some guy paid for the land and put it there? I doubt it.

382 Gail Wynand Wannabe  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:19:52pm

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

Not talking about Americans here. C’mon. If you’re gonna engage, be honest. You read my comment right?

383 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:19:58pm

re: #314 Gail Wynand Wannabe

re: #312 marjoriemoon

I guess I didn’t bitch because I don’t have to worry about Christians rioting in the streets on a regular basis in the US at every provocation. I live in a country where I don’t have to worry that my life will be taken over some religious disagreement, even this one. Do you remember “Piss Christ?”

Yeah, I remember Piss Christ. It was widely misunderstood. The artist, Serrano, was commenting (in an admittedly upsetting way) on the cheapening of religion via televangelists and other hucksters—people who had taken religion into the gutter, as he saw it.

384 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:20:39pm

re: #334 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Regarding Piss Christ: it was a so-so work that did it’s best art when it caused spontaneous changes in facial coloration in the bigots that viewed it.

Regarding you and said art work, there is an old zen story:

“Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed.

As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. “Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!”

“Brother,” the second monk replied, “I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her.”

385 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:22:09pm

re: #337 brookly red

yes when in doubt cry bigot… the mark of a true intellectual.

I must have missed it when bigotry was eradicated. Can you give me a date? Maybe a link?

386 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:22:34pm

re: #381 Gail Wynand Wannabe

So really, your argument boils down to the fact that you don’t want the community center build because such intrudes on your feelings of security? Is that the gist of it?

387 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:22:34pm

re: #382 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Not talking about Americans here. C’mon. If you’re gonna engage, be honest. You read my comment right?

Yes, I read it. And Rauf is not only not of the Wahhabi sect that dominates Gaza, he is an American citizen. Based on that, does he not have the rights of a citizen, including the right to be judged for his deeds alone?

388 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:24:19pm

re: #381 Gail Wynand Wannabe

That’s enough blatant trolling out of you. Go away.

389 What, me worry?  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:26:45pm

re: #381 Gail Wynand Wannabe

“It’s his constitutional right… BUT”

Where do you want to draw that line? You know, I have this apartment to rent, but I don’t like Black people. The law says I have to rent to them, BUT what if they offend me?

Too bad.

People like you irritate me. You don’t get to decide who is worthy and who is not. But then, I see your favorite book author.

390 palomino  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:27:36pm

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I read it. And Rauf is not only not of the Wahhabi sect that dominates Gaza, he is an American citizen. Based on that, does he not have the rights of a citizen, including the right to be judged for his deeds alone?

No, he’s a Muslim. So judge him based on other people’s acts.

A friend of mine who opposes Park 51 keeps telling me there aren’t enough moderate Muslims speaking out against terrorism. He’s probably right, but that isn’t a valid argument against Cordoba House. And ironically Rauf is exactly the kind of moderate we should be encouraging.

391 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:28:21pm

re: #388 Charles

Well that settles that. I just typed about 5 different responses and then couldn’t decide if it was even worth bothering.

*heads upstairs…*

392 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:31:14pm

Do people associate Methodists or Quakers with sexual abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests? Of course not. And it’s just as ridiculous and ignorant to associate Sufi Muslims with the terrorist acts of whacked-out Wahhabis.

393 Jadespring  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:33:00pm

re: #386 eclectic infidel

So really, your argument boils down to the fact that you don’t want the community center build because such intrudes on your feelings of security? Is that the gist of it?

I know they’re gone but that does seem like that’s getting close to it. The mugging analogy comment to me spoke to that. So yeah, fear.

Fear can be a great and irrational motivator at times.

394 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:41:53pm

re: #337 brookly red

yes when in doubt cry bigot… the mark of a true intellectual.

And the need to deny that obvious bigots are in fact bigots, simply because some people might overuse the term sometimes … . the mark of a true partisan hack.

395 sagehen  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 8:56:55pm

re: #365 Gail Wynand Wannabe

Of course, they weren’t the same guys who destroyed the buildings. But there were celebrations on that day, in muslim countries, documented by the media. We should ignore that?

Yah, there’s a billion and a half muslims in the world. if only 5 per cent are radical, that’s 75 million radicals. 19 radicals destroyed The Twin Towers. 19. I bet if you were mugged by one person different-looking than you (much less, 190, you would be pretty aware of your surroundings shortly after. And it wouldn’t matter about your ideals at that point. That is what I think this is about, nine years later…


If 1/10 of 1% of the world’s Muslims are dangerous radicals, that’s a million and a half. Y’know what, there’s not even half that many trying to harm us… even including all the Muslims who we’re right there in their country presenting easily accessible targets.

But if we be complete fucking assholes to the whole billion and a half, odds are there will be 2/10 of 1% trying to harm us. Maybe even 3/10 of 1%. Which is a fuck of a lot more than we’re capable of protecting ourselves from. And even then, there would still be 99.97% not trying to harm us.

Get a grip.

396 Decider  Fri, Sep 10, 2010 10:57:14pm

There is simply no reason to have 24 hour news stations. The “Fox-ifacation” of all the networks has turned towards shocking the public for ratings. News now is little more than the Howard Stern show without the lesbians.

Soon Sean Hannity will be in the same media position that Walter Cronkite once held.

397 eneri  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:40:07am

The media are a bunch of pimps! No one would know or care if 24/7 media had news to fill instead of this abomination.

398 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:28:47am

re: #205 goddamnedfrank

Right, The Fountainhead is a terrorist manifesto that culminates with the dynamiting of a building out of spite, along with a trial and jury nullification based on the purported value of a person’s ego. This makes it much worse. It’s a blatant rejection of the rule of law, and a piece of pure concentrated evil.

Image: Rush-band-1978.jpg
disagrees.

BTW, Hyperbole much? Good lord man, stay on your meds.


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