Live Video: Geert Wilders - Update: ‘In the Name of Freedom, No Mosque Here!’

Wingnuts • Views: 5,818

Here’s a live video feed of the anti-Muslim hate rally, as Geert Wilders takes the stage: NOS Nieuws - Live - Politiek 24.

UPDATE at 9/11/10 12:38:40 pm:

Oops … the live video went black as soon as I posted this.

UPDATE at 9/11/10 12:39:19 pm:

There we go. It’s back.

UPDATE at 9/11/10 1:01:43 pm:

And it’s gone again. This Dutch TV station was apparently only interested in Geert Wilders’ speech.

UPDATE at 9/11/10 1:15:38 pm:

Some quotes from Wilders:

“We are here in the spirit of America’s founding fathers. We are here in the spirit of freedom. We are here in the spirit of Abraham Lincoln, the President who freed the slaves. President Lincoln said: ‘Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.’”

[…]

[Frequently interrupted by the crowd chanting “NO MOSQUE HERE! NO MOSQUE HERE!”]

[…]

“Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?”

[…]

“If the mosque will be built here, such people would feel triumphant and we should never, ever, ever give them that feeling.”

[…]

“We cannot tolerate a mosque on Ground Zero.” [Crowd chanting again, “NO MOSQUE HERE.”]

[…]

“In honor of these victims, I believe the words of Ronald Reagan resonate…”

[…]

“In the name of freedom, NO MOSQUE HERE!”

As Orwell spins in his grave.

Jump to bottom

376 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:34:58pm

Feed don't work...

2 Virginia Plain  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:35:42pm

I can't see anything. It's just a black screen with a crawl.

3 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:35:55pm

Screen just went black. It was working when I posted.

4 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:36:07pm

Yeah, it just went kaput.

5 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:36:19pm

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Feed don't work...

worked just a few minutes ago.

NOS is the dutch public broadcasting agency; I bet they're not up for a lot of international traffic. not on the scale this will evoke anyway.

6 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:36:33pm

re: #1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Feed don't work...


what'chew said


think i'll wait for the "U-Tube"

7 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:36:40pm

My internet sucks. I can barely just read LGF at times.

8 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:37:19pm

re: #7 NJDhockeyfan

My internet sucks. I can barely just read LGF at times.

move outa mississippi!

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:37:27pm

Ever occur that the internet might be smart? That's one way to shut up an idiot.

10 Virginia Plain  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:37:48pm

True, very true.

11 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:37:58pm

Must be a sekrit mooslim conspiracy involving the White House to keep God-Fearing-Heart-Land-Real-American-Patriots from hearing the wisdom of Greet Wilders.

12 darthstar  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:38:01pm

re: #4 Gus 802

Yeah, it just went kaput.

Good. Fuck Geert. I hope his message reaches as few people as possible.

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:38:16pm

re: #5 ThomasLite

worked just a few minutes ago.

NOS is the dutch public broadcasting agency; I bet they're not up for a lot of international traffic. not on the scale this will evoke anyway.

You're probably right. Ain't that called a "Lizardlanche"?

14 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:39:24pm

There we go. It's back.

Geert Wilders just said if the mosque is built, New York will become just like Mecca.

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:39:51pm

"Imam Rauf is not a moderate."

16 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:40:03pm

"We are here today to draw the line."

17 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:40:26pm

"In the spirit of America's founding fathers."

I want to puke.

18 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:40:53pm

re: #17 Charles

"In the spirit of America's founding fathers."

I want to puke.

Cripes. He's quoting Lincoln.

19 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:40:54pm

Lincoln would smack him.

20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:41:11pm

re: #14 Charles

There we go. It's back.

Geert Wilders just said if the mosque is built, New York will become just like Mecca.

Mecca has titty bars and Disney Stores?

21 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:41:15pm

I think I'm going to be sick.

22 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:41:25pm

I cannot describe how much it offends me to hear this MF quoting Lincoln to support his bigotry.

23 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:41:29pm

New York will become just like Mecca

but with better pizza

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:41:49pm

re: #14 Charles

There we go. It's back.

Geert Wilders just said if the mosque is built, New York will become just like Mecca.

I can see that. Just exactly the same.

25 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:42:21pm

Wilders even looks like a fascist. It's like he's from central casting for a movie about the 3rd Reich.

26 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:42:37pm

re: #14 Charles


Geert Wilders just said if the mosque is built, New York will become just like Mecca.

I don't think you will find BLTs in Mecca.

27 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:42:56pm

He speaks for everyone in the non-Islamic world. Living and dead, apparently.

28 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:43:16pm

re: #25 Gus 802

Wilders even looks like a fascist. It's like he's from central casting for a movie about the 3rd Reich.

He would look perfect in an SS uniform.

29 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:43:21pm

Now he's repeating every long-debunked talking point.

30 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:43:25pm

did you see where the NOS Nieuws site uses the term 'embedden' for embed?

this embiggens my knowledge of nederlandish

31 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:43:53pm

re: #30 engineer dog
LOL

32 Kragar  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:44:11pm

This is going to end up giving me an aneurysm. I'm out.

33 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:44:51pm

Eurofascists, get out.

34 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:45:14pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am watching The Big Band Years on PBS.

35 elizajane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:45:23pm

It's really revolting that this man tries to spread to America the problems that Europe has had with its Muslim population, problems that we DO NOT HAVE. We really don't. Different kind of culture. Different history of assimilation. Far smaller number of Muslims from different backgrounds than those in Europe. We simply have not had the issues Holland has had, but here's Geller trotting this man out to make us think we will have them if we don't become hate-filled bigots.

36 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:45:40pm

Geert: "America has never harmed Islam before Islam harmed the United States."

Mr Wilders, and I'm putting this as nicely as I can. Bull - F'n -Shit.

37 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:45:43pm

Crowd chanting "NO MOSQUE HERE!"

38 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:45:51pm

re: #17 Charles

What the fuck does a Dutch politician know about the spirit of the Founding Fathers? Screw him.

39 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:46:42pm

Oh here goes the "because there's no churches in Mecca, we shouldn't build mosques here" crap.

40 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:47:07pm

Now he wants Saudi Arabia to set the standard for tolerance.

41 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:47:08pm

Oh no! Ten more mosques are planned for the US!!1!

42 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:47:36pm

Wilders: "Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?"

43 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #17 Charles

What would that piece of fascist piece of crap know of our Founding Father's ideals? To Geert Wilders and all his sympathizers:Get your Eurofascist ass out my country. We are better than you. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the resistance to Geert goose-stepping ways shows a sort of American Exceptionalism.

44 elizajane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:47:46pm

re: #38 Lidane

What the fuck does a Dutch politician know about the spirit of the Founding Fathers? Screw him.

Some Dutch politicians actually know a ton about the Founding Fathers (who took many political ideas from the Dutch Republic).
This particular Dutch politician, not so much.

45 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:48:04pm

re: #42 Charles

Wilders: "Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?"

Let's be like Saudi Arabia!

/

46 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:48:11pm

Live tweeting from this mess: [Link: twitter.com...]

47 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:48:24pm

Geert. Hey, MR. WILDERS.

The reason that mosques are built in the United States but there aren't churches built in Saudi Arabia, is due to the fact that we have this thing called religious freedom. You should look it up.

48 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:48:52pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

Oh no! Ten more mosques are planned for the US!!1!

Quick! Get to the fallout shelter and hide!

Honestly. This is all boilerplate Cold War rhetoric, except instead of ranting about Communists and America becoming just like Moscow, they've substituted Muslims instead.

49 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:49:04pm

Dear Geert Wilders,

Get the fuck out of the USA.

Thanks,

Gus

50 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:49:05pm

Just like Mecca? Where are all the Italians, Jews, Chinese and other people in charge of making really good food for me to eat going to go?

51 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:49:35pm

well, he's actually not as overtly bigoted now as he usually is back here.
that said, he's still an idiot, then and now.

52 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:49:37pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

Oh no! Ten more mosques are planned for the US!!1!

soon crowds will be shouting "NOT IN BACK YARD!"

wait....that's more that 3 words....never mind

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:50:21pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

Oh no! Ten more mosques are planned for the US!!1!

Aaaaaahhhh!!!!

54 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:50:47pm

re: #42 Charles

Perhaps Wilders would be enlightened by the fact that other Muslims are persecuted by the Saudi Government. Also, at least in my opinion, the Saudi family cannot say what Islam is, as they have done things I consider sacrilegious.

55 jamesfirecat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:50:47pm

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ever occur that the internet might be smart? That's one way to shut up an idiot.

I for one welcome our future electronic overlords....

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:50:58pm

re: #42 Charles

Wilders: "Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?"

By 'that', I assume he means, 'go on supporting the House of Saud, and buying their oil'?

No?

57 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:51:02pm

New York, which is rooted in the belief in tolerance shouldn't allow a mosque to be built?

You just broke my brain, Geert.

58 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:51:15pm

"We can never tolerate a mosque so that New York, rooted in Dutch tolerance, can never become New Mecca."

What a boob.

59 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:51:37pm

I guess he does not understand or does not want to understand the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

60 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:51:55pm

re: #57 RadicalModerate

New York, which is rooted in the belief in tolerance shouldn't allow a mosque to be built?
You just broke my brain, Geert.

I love how they do not even get the irony of such statements....

61 jamesfirecat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:52:01pm

Nere: #57 RadicalModerate

New York, which is rooted in the belief in tolerance shouldn't allow a mosque to be built?

You just broke my brain, Geert.

//New York is rooted in tollerance? I thought it was rooted in dispising everyone equally....

62 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:52:16pm

re: #42 Charles

Wilders: "Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?"


Duh, because we're NOT Saudi Arabia?

Last time I checked this is America.

63 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:52:18pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Dear Geert Wilders,

Get the fuck out of the USA.

Thanks,

Rational America

FTFY

The sooner that Wilders and the fascist EDL fucks take their garbage back across the Atlantic, the better. We don't need that shit here.

64 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:52:45pm

In the name of freedom, let's take theirs away!

65 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:17pm

In the name of freedom no Mosque here?

Huh?

66 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:18pm

re: #47 RadicalModerate

Geert. Hey, MR. WILDERS.

The reason that mosques are built in the United States but there aren't churches built in Saudi Arabia, is due to the fact that we have this thing called religious freedom. You should look it up.

Repost to RadicalModerate from the previous thread:

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

Thanks for reminding me of the National Republican Trust:

Scott Wheeler: Utter Hate

67 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:24pm

"A modern day Churchill."

/Pukes

68 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:25pm

"for the sake of freedom: no mosque here"
lolwut?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:36pm

re: #58 jaunte

"We can never tolerate a mosque so that New York, rooted in Dutch tolerance, can never become New Mecca."

What a boob.

I'm glad Peter Stuyvesant got the concept somewhat better than you do, Geert. Else, the first Jews of New York would have been sent back into the hands of the Inquisition.

70 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:39pm

On the one hand I didn't mean to imply that the only reason for existence for New Yorkers is to make me food.

On the other hand, I'll bet the food in NYC is a lot better than in Riyadh.

71 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:51pm

Here comes Bolton. Via video.

72 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:58pm

re: #58 jaunte

"We can never tolerate a mosque so that New York, rooted in Dutch tolerance, can never become New Mecca."

What a boob.

didn't the dutch start NY?
that means..... OH NOOOOOOOOoooo!

73 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:53:59pm

of course, the prototype for this kind of racist rhetoric in america was already well established over 150 years ago when people just like geert predicted doom if the irish catholics were allowed to practice their "foreign" faith here

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:11pm

re: #67 Winny Spencer

"A modern day Churchill."

/Pukes

I wonder what Zombie Abe and Zombie Winston would have to say to him.

75 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:19pm

I missed his last sentence....
Was it something like "Heil Hitler"?

Jesus...a modern day Churchill....

76 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:36pm

re: #73 engineer dog

We can't elect Kennedy or we'll be ruled by the Pope!

77 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:39pm

Oh, I see. Her typing isn't so bad. It's a direct transcript of her speech.

78 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:43pm

re: #65 Gus 802

In the name of freedom no Mosque here?

Huh?

beat me to it. I don't understand how that can not sound completely nonsensical to anyone...

79 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:54:43pm

Here comes the John Bolton, who Pam just said she hopes is the "next President of the United States"

Piss off, Pam.

80 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:55:35pm

I was just thinking about Bolton's porn stache and then Pammy says "and accomplished lover of America".

It make me gufaw....

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:55:38pm

Actually, I think the Dutch were also solidly rooted in the desire to make a buck in New Amsterdam, a tradition that the titty bar continues to this day.

82 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:55:45pm

re: #79 RadicalModerate

Here comes the John Bolton, who Pam just said she hopes is the "next President of the United States"

Piss off, Pam.

Hopefully the next president of the United States. -- Pam Geller.

That's too funny.

83 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:56:04pm

::: Passing the chuck bucket ::: oops the darn thing is full.

84 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:56:25pm

Did that last sentence make no sense at all?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:56:32pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

I wonder what Zombie Abe and Zombie Winston would have to say to him.

Not talk. Just eat brains. That way better for freedom. And tasty!!

86 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:56:59pm

re: #84 Charles

Did that last sentence make no sense at all?

He should have taped it so he could edit it.

87 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:57:07pm

re: #81 EmmmieG
Didn't they establish the custom of exchanging cheap tawdry gewgaws for things of real value?

88 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:57:31pm

re: #87 jaunte

Didn't they establish the custom of exchanging cheap tawdry gewgaws for things of real value?


Yep. Times Square is just a chip off the old block.

89 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:57:58pm

re: #79 RadicalModerate

LOL forever. Let him try and run. He'd do about as well in the primaries as Tancredo and Duncan Hunter did.

90 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:58:17pm

re: #82 Gus 802

I guess she just threw Palin under the bus by saying that.

91 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:58:26pm

Bolton: "The peripatetic Imam Rauf, who can't seem to find time in his busy schedule to address the critics and explain his motives...."

92 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:58:32pm

Oh yuck. Bolton is such an asshole.

93 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:58:50pm

Bolton is using way to many big words for that audience.

94 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:58:50pm

re: #90 Winny Spencer

I guess she just threw Palin under the bus by saying that.

put a fork in her...

95 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:59:01pm

Looks like the Dutch station just cut away. They were only interested in Wilders.

96 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:59:12pm

Feed apparently requires Microsoft Silverlight.

No, thank you.

97 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:59:13pm

I'm going to wait to make a bigger comment until this circle jerk of hatred at Ground Zero is over.

98 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:59:16pm

re: #91 Charles

Translation: That asshole imam went on TV to give an interview about Park51 instead of calling me and Pamz personally. Waaaah!

99 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 12:59:48pm

Since Geert's no longer speaking, the link is no longer broadcasting the rally.

100 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:01:19pm

re: #95 Charles

Looks like the Dutch station just cut away. They were only interested in Wilders.

there's a report on the european parliament starting now; it's rather important to us Dutch as well (also they're reporting on the cabinet formation now; a hot topic here nowadays and to the netherlands a lot more important then "a discussion about some mosque somewhere").

anyone have another live feed?

101 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:02:37pm

re: #95 Charles

Looks like the Dutch station just cut away. They were only interested in Wilders.

Seemed like they were all parroting the same old talking points.

102 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:04:19pm

re: #91 Charles

Bolton: "The peripatetic Imam Rauf, who can't seem to find time in his busy schedule to address the critics and explain his motives..."


I thought Rauf did a fine job here.......
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

103 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:04:23pm

No habla Dutch...

104 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:05:01pm

I can make out enough of what the Dutch reporters are saying to know they're talking about Wilders' extremism and connections to other far right groups. I heard "Vlaams Belang" in there.

105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:12:22pm

Virginia Tech just lost to JMU... Thanks Vlaams...

106 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:12:29pm

Looks like the inbred BlueCollarTodd has nothing to do this afternoon but monitor LGF. What a pathetic fool.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:13:44pm

The freedom of speech means the freedom to say what you wish.

This includes the freedom to be dead wrong.

This includes the freedom to be told you're a jerk by millions of ticked off people.

All with the package.

108 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:13:49pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Looks like the inbred BlueCollarTodd has nothing to do this afternoon but monitor LGF. What a pathetic fool.

I'll have you know that LGF is well worth monitoring.
:P

109 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #104 Charles

ah, I'll summarize:

the VVD and CDA are negotiating with the PVV (wilders' party) for support for a VVD/CDA cabinet.
the debate is whether wilders would thereby be able to damage the Dutch system of equality and legal protection thereof.
H. van Baalen explains why that won't be possible (he's right, he wont be able to do that. he can scream and shout himself silly but he can't implement anything with just the PVV and other parties won't cooperate).
the socialist EP fraction leader Schultz accuses wilders of, amongst other things, xenophobia in the same way as the EDL and VB and suchlike.
what I've experienced of him, and let there be no mistake I don't like him at all, he's a nasty talking head but he's nowhere near that.
(don't forget the bigots have many tastes here in europe, and not every taste is quite as nasty.)

110 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:15:57pm

For the rookies who might not understand who/what Vlaams Belang is, an old link

[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

111 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:16:46pm

Texas Tea Party Governor Rick Perry, fresh off of having his political appointees rewriting Science, History and Civics curriculum, and making secessionist statements, is now mad that the federal government isn't sending him enough money.

Texas' bid for $830 million federal school aid is deniedl

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:17:53pm

re: #111 RadicalModerate

Texas Tea Party Governor Rick Perry, fresh off of having his political appointees rewriting Science, History and Civics curriculum, and making secessionist statements, is now mad that the federal government isn't sending him enough money.

Texas' bid for $830 million federal school aid is deniedl

Why should I pay taxes for Rick Perry to have 830 million dollars to waste paying teachers and keeping the light on in schools?

///

113 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:18:05pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Looks like the inbred BlueCollarTodd has nothing to do this afternoon but monitor LGF. What a pathetic fool.

I have a blogwar cry from Salamantis that I find useful for occasions such as this:

"Come on out, BlueCollarTodd. You Chickenshit Stealth Dinger!"

Edit to replace the original subject "FoxSecret" with the current troll.

114 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:19:01pm

re: #111 RadicalModerate

Texas Tea Party Governor Rick Perry, fresh off of having his political appointees rewriting Science, History and Civics curriculum, and making secessionist statements, is now mad that the federal government isn't sending him enough money.

Texas' bid for $830 million federal school aid is deniedl

I thought Perry hated Federal money....

What an asshole.

115 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:19:17pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I have a blogwar cry from Salamantis that I find useful for occasions such as this:

"Come on out, BlueCollarTodd. You Chickenshit Stealth Dinger!"

Edit to replace the original subject "FoxSecret" with the current troll.

Nice. He's blocked though and is currently doing some spamming of #lgf on Twitter.

116 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:21:07pm

Sometimes there's only one thing to do.

117 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:21:46pm

re: #111 RadicalModerate


Texas' bid for $830 million federal school aid is deniedl

Rick Perry is trying very hard not to have to increase the state's own funding of education:

The federal aid is part of a $10 billion jobs package approved by Congress in August. Under a Texas-only provision by Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Austin, the governor must commit to keep education funding at the same proportionate level for three years to receive the aid.

Federal officials say the aid package could help fund an estimated 14,500 jobs in Texas as school districts consider staff reductions amid shrinking budgets.

Tarrant County area schools were set to receive nearly $60 million. The Fort Worth school district was eligible for $21 million of that.

Texas Education Commissioner Robert Scott and an emissary for Perry met with federal officials late last month in an attempt to bypass the conditions and get the money. But the Education Department notified Scott in a letter released Thursday that granting the aid "would not be consistent with the statutory requirements."

118 webevintage  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:22:23pm

re: #111 RadicalModerate

Texas Tea Party Governor Rick Perry, fresh off of having his political appointees rewriting Science, History and Civics curriculum, and making secessionist statements, is now mad that the federal government isn't sending him enough money.

Texas' bid for $830 million federal school aid is deniedl


The federal aid is part of a $10 billion jobs package approved by Congress in August. Under a Texas-only provision by Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Austin, the governor must commit to keep education funding at the same proportionate level for three years to receive the aid.
Federal officials say the aid package could help fund an estimated 14,500 jobs in Texas as school districts consider staff reductions amid shrinking budgets.
Tarrant County area schools were set to receive nearly $60 million. The Fort Worth school district was eligible for $21 million of that.

Texas Education Commissioner Robert Scott and an emissary for Perry met with federal officials late last month in an attempt to bypass the conditions and get the money.

But the Education Department notified Scott in a letter released Thursday that granting the aid "would not be consistent with the statutory requirements."
"As such, we cannot award Ed Jobs funds to Texas at this time," Assistant Education Secretary Thelma Melendez de Santa Ana said in the letter.


Read more: [Link: www.star-telegram.com...]

119 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:22:27pm

re: #117 jaunte

While he attempts to degrade the standards. What an ass.

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:24:28pm

re: #116 Charles

Who's side were we on there?
/

121 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:25:24pm

re: #116 Charles

Are the vile speeches done?

122 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:25:41pm

re: #116 Charles

Sometimes there's only one thing to do.

[Video]

Here's the Geert Wilders transcript.

123 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:26:12pm

re: #117 jaunte

Rick Perry is trying very hard not to have to increase the state's own funding of education:

Part of that is due to the fact that Perry has been redirecting the lion's share of state lottery money from being earmarked primarily for the education fund to beef up the state general fund - even with the misleading advertising that the Texas State Lottery Commission stating that money is going to education.

124 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:26:14pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Here's the Geert Wilders transcript.

Which is one giant paragraph. Sheesh.

125 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:26:23pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Here's the Geert Wilders transcript.

Yikes. Wall of text.

126 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:29:17pm

The full quote about Lincoln is exceedingly sick:

We are here in the spirit of America’s founding fathers. We are here in the spirit of freedom. We are here in the spirit of Abraham Lincoln, the President who freed the slaves. President Lincoln said: “Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.”

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:30:22pm

re: #126 Charles

“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.”

Would VB saying that count as irony?

128 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:31:03pm

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Would VB saying that count as irony?

The i-word I was looking for is "ignorance."

129 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:31:26pm

re: #126 Charles

Huh? I've read that three times now and it makes no goddamn sense.

130 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:32:36pm

He didn't follow the written speech exactly.

131 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:32:40pm

re: #118 webevintage
Rick Perry is a douchebag.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:33:27pm

re: #126 Charles

The full quote about Lincoln is exceedingly sick:

Oh, now, that's sick and twisted. In some very classy heavenly tavern, Jefferson has just turned off the TV news, and Franklin is pouring Lincoln a double.

133 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:33:48pm

re: #130 Charles

I think my problem is I'm trying to apply logic to anything Wilders says. I should know better.

134 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:33:51pm

re: #129 Lidane

Huh? I've read that three times now and it makes no goddamn sense.

You don't have your head properly oriented, like this fellow does:

Image: head_up_ass_5.jpg

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:34:59pm

re: #129 Lidane

Huh? I've read that three times now and it makes no goddamn sense.

Lincoln meant that a slave-owner did not merit freedom him or herself because he or she deprived others of the right.

Wilders means that because 'Muslims', that monolithic front, deny others religious freedom, they don't get no religious freedom.

Sick and effed up on so many levels.

136 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:36:11pm

* crowd hears---
“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.”*

* crowd thinking *
* stroking chins *
* brakes up and goes home *

137 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:36:33pm

re: #136 spikester

Oh if only.

138 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:36:46pm

re: #130 Charles

I'm sure that it sounded much better in its native German.

(½)/

139 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:36:56pm

Ah, Jimi. You know just what to say to me. This song just came up in my iTunes shuffle:

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:37:01pm

So Pam invited this guy to lecture New Yorkers about freedom.

I thought we were supposed to get all upset when Europeans told us how to act.

141 spikester  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:37:10pm

re: #137 Obdicut

Oh if only.

that's how i saw it in my dead

142 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:38:15pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Lincoln meant that a slave-owner did not merit freedom him or herself because he or she deprived others of the right.

Wilders means that because 'Muslims', that monolithic front, deny others religious freedom, they don't get no religious freedom.

Sick and effed up on so many levels.

It's a form of insane troll logic that only ever makes sense to the Right.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:38:52pm

re: #142 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's a form of insane troll logic that only ever makes sense to the Right.

And not the healthy members of the right, either.

144 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:38:57pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I got what Lincoln was saying. I was just trying to figure out what logic Wilders was using in co-opting Lincoln's words.

Is he just trying to use that whole "they don't build churches in Mecca, so we shouldn't build mosques anywhere else" canard, but using Lincoln to make his case?

145 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:38:59pm

Once again, I'm repeating my mantra.

To be angered by evil is to partake of it, stupid. - Phrases of Import and Salvation, Chapter IX, The Book of Universal Truths and Other Humorous Anecdotes

146 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:39:14pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

So Pam invited this guy to lecture New Yorkers about freedom.

I thought we were supposed to get all upset when Europeans told us how to act.

yeah, just so happens, huh

147 Capitalist Tool  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:40:11pm

re: #142 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's a form of insane troll logic that only ever makes sense to the Right.

Nope,
it's not just a phenomenon of the right.

pay attention

148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:40:20pm

Now, I just caught myself about to say, "Go back to your own country..." then thought, "oops".

149 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:40:32pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Lincoln meant that a slave-owner did not merit freedom him or herself because he or she deprived others of the right.

Wilders means that because 'Muslims', that monolithic front, deny others religious freedom, they don't get no religious freedom.

Sick and effed up on so many levels.

Agreed. He lumps all Muslims into the same category, which does not work like it did for slave-owners.

150 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:40:38pm

re: #144 Lidane

Oh, I got what Lincoln was saying. I was just trying to figure out what logic Wilders was using in co-opting Lincoln's words.

Is he just trying to use that whole "they don't build churches in Mecca, so we shouldn't build mosques anywhere else" canard, but using Lincoln to make his case?

Pretty much. Turning wise words from a great president preaching against the evils of slavery into a rallying cry in the latest round of Christianity's long war with Islam.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:41:00pm

re: #144 Lidane

Oh, I got what Lincoln was saying. I was just trying to figure out what logic Wilders was using in co-opting Lincoln's words.

Is he just trying to use that whole "they don't build churches in Mecca, so we shouldn't build mosques anywhere else" canard, but using Lincoln to make his case?

Basically, yes. Some Muslims have deprived others of religious freedom. Hence, how come we gotta give any Muslims any religious freedom?

They don't have churches in Saudi Arabia, how come we gotta have mosques?

But secretly, I think it's more envy than anything else. These people look at how Christians are treated in Egypt and such places, and while they pretend to be indignant, they really think that absolute fairness should let them treat American Muslims like that.

152 simoom  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:41:01pm

This seems to be a recording of about 15 minutes of the Wilders speech stream, I imagine by a supporter of his, complete with buffering pauses from time-to-time:

153 ThomasLite  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:41:06pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now, I just caught myself about to say, "Go back to your own country..." then thought, "oops".

bigots bring out the worst in everyone. case in point.

154 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:41:27pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

So Pam invited this guy to lecture New Yorkers about freedom.

I thought we were supposed to get all upset when Europeans told us how to act.


You think Pammy's faithful followers will see the irony?

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now, I just caught myself about to say, "Go back to your own country..." then thought, "oops".

No, no oops. He should go home. I don't know if they want him there, but I sure don't want him here.

156 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:43:29pm

Breitbart video was just introduced by Geller:

Twitter / Jill Rayfield: Geller introduces Breitbar ...

He's an 'icon' who is 'slaying' forces of biased mainstream media.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:44:02pm

re: #154 CarleeCork

You think Pammy's faithful followers will see the irony?

No.

//There's a big difference between European socialists lecturing us about stuff we have every right to do, like go to war, or not provide health care, and courageous European Freedom fighters encouraging us to do stuff we want to do, like act like assholes about mosques.

158 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:44:10pm

re: #156 Charles

Breitbart video was just introduced by Geller:

Twitter / Jill Rayfield: Geller introduces Breitbar ...

Ah, Herr Goebbels has arrived.

159 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:44:22pm

I want pictures of Breitbart with Pamz plastered everywhere.

160 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:45:22pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Ah, Herr Goebbels has arrived.

Goebbels dressed better, though...

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:46:25pm

re: #160 JasonA

Goebbels dressed better, though...

It was mid-century. Everyone dressed better.

/

162 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:46:42pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

So Pam invited this guy to lecture New Yorkers about freedom.

I thought we were supposed to get all upset when Europeans told us how to act.

Kejda Gjermani had a detailed post about some of Robert Spencer's connections to Europe (specifically James Jatras) here:
[Link: www.kejda.net...]

163 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:47:36pm

Breitbart? I thought he was hiding under a rock after the Sherrod fiasco.

I hope someone tapes him and edits the tape!!!

164 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:48:31pm

re: #163 CarleeCork

Breitbart? I thought he was hiding under a rock after the Sherrod fiasco.

I hope someone tapes him and edits the tape!!!

Hence why it's only a video made by him, not actually him. He's still MIA, no doubt being kept under lock and key by his attorney until after Sherrod's lawsuit either disappears or goes to trial.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:48:39pm

re: #163 CarleeCork

Breitbart? I thought he was hiding under a rock after the Sherrod fiasco.

I hope someone tapes him and edits the tape!!!

Remember 'Bert Is Evil'? I think someone should have a full website of edited Breitbart tapes.

Of course, "Bert Is Evil" ended up on pro-al-Qaeda signs, which is funnier than anything that's likely to happen with Breitbart tapes.

166 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:49:14pm

Twitter / Jill Rayfield: Breitbart tells the crowd ...

Breitbart tells the crowd that they are not the controversial ones - Katie Couric is

167 Capitalist Tool  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:49:56pm

re: #156 Charles

'slaying forces of biased mainstream media'

hahahahahaha

that was fun and waay too much comic relief- i can't stand it any more... back to the OU game

168 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:50:20pm

re: #164 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Sorry, I'm not watching it. Stuff like that makes my skin crawl, I see so much of it here in Texas. Bleh.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:50:21pm
170 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:51:16pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

What did Katie do now?

Wasn't she the one who had the audacity to ask questions of the Grizzly Mama that weren't on the cue cards?

171 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:51:18pm

re: #166 Charles

Twitter / Jill Rayfield: Breitbart tells the crowd ...

Ooga booga!

Now we know why Drudge links to Infowars. That's because Drudge and Breitbart are both conspiracy kooks.

172 RadicalModerate  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:51:33pm

re: #166 Charles

I can understand why they hate Katie Couric. She's a rather passionate activist against colo-rectal cancer.

173 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:51:44pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

What did Katie do now?


She played 'gotcha' with poor sarah palin.

174 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:52:19pm

OT:
Almost done with the last projects here... installing two outside weatherproof electrical outlets. Think I'll be safe and foam them today, wire 'em into the fusebox on the morrow.

175 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:53:06pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

What did Katie do now?

She failed to throw the requisite tonnage of red meat to the wingnuts.

176 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:53:27pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

What did Katie do now?


And had the audacity to ask poor sarah what magazines and newspapers she reads. The nerve of that woman.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:53:54pm

re: #173 CarleeCork

She played 'gotcha' with poor sarah palin.

That was, I must say in Katie's defense, a totally softball interview.

178 Capitalist Tool  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:55:20pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

That was, I must say in Katie's defense, a totally softball interview.

But Z, she didn't ask for her fave cookie recipe...

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:55:21pm

re: #176 CarleeCork

And had the audacity to ask poor sarah what magazines and newspapers she reads. The nerve of that woman.

The spin they've been putting on that question for the past couple of years is that she was clearly implying that Sarah was a hick from rural Alaska who didn't read enough. Hence, Sarah couldn't even be bothered to answer the question.

The terrible part, though, is that that that moment was when many of us realized that, yes, regardless of where she was from, Sarah was a lightweight hick.

180 blueraven  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:57:44pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

That was, I must say in Katie's defense, a totally softball interview.

I think that was what disarmed Sarah so. The questions were so simple and straightforward. Yet Katie was on her like a pit bull until she either answered, (stupidly) or just avoided the question exposing herself as the ignorant shill she really is.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:58:29pm

My MIL2 is now in hospice care. They were sloppy with making sure she got her pain meds, and she fell out of bed and gashed her forehead trying to get the pain pills on her own.

MIL1 apparently ripped the doctor in charge a new one, then went up one side and down the other, just to be sure. MIL2's new doctor is the head of the hospice program.

GMIL, who was there for the ripping, is mortified, and says she's still got to live in this town, but given the armed stand-off between her husband and most of the neighbors, I'd say she can stand for the hospice people to think her daughter is a bit of a bitch.

182 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 1:59:12pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

The terrible part, though, is that that that moment was when many of us realized that, yes, regardless of where she was from, Sarah was a lightweight hick.

I'd like to believe that most people realized it when Tina Fey parodied that interview on SNL, but didn't make any jokes. She just used Caribou Barbie's real words.

183 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:00:08pm

re: #173 CarleeCork

She played 'gotcha' with poor sarah palin.

Yes she did, it's what a lot of them do. Nothing compared to what Breitbart did, he just broke my IronyMeter with that one.

BTW, it wasn't too hard of a job to get Sarah in a gotcha.

184 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:04:34pm

re: #183 BigPapa

Yes she did, it's what a lot of them do. Nothing compared to what Breitbart did, he just broke my IronyMeter with that one.

BTW, it wasn't too hard of a job to get Sarah in a gotcha.

Yeah. The fact that Couric actually got Palin is telling. About Palin that is. This is in the context of her potentially having become VP of the US. The rest is history and cannot be refudiated. Most of Palin's gaffes and yokelisms can't even fit in the palm of one's hand.

185 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:06:14pm

The real Couric-Palin interview.

Couric: What kind of books do you read?

Palin: Me? Reading? Oh I hate reading.

/

186 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:06:52pm

re: #184 Gus 802
Yet I still hear people say she won the VP debate against Biden. I actually felt sorry for her during that debate. She sounded like a total airhead.

187 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:06:59pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

{{{SFZ}}}

188 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:08:36pm
And It's over. Geller tells crowd not to talk to anyone on the way out cause they want to catch you 'in a bad moment.' Foiled!

Yep. Bigots talking on camera. Bad moment.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:09:13pm

re: #187 wlewisiii

{{{SFZ}}}

Thanks. Husband is sad, being macho American man, says he's trying to 'be cool' with the whole situation.

Thank God, MIL1 says that after it's over, she's going to go to Tennessee and visit with SIL and the granddaughters for a while. This is better than her last plan, which was to go on a road trip by herself with her failing vision and a chihuahua to protect her.

190 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #186 CarleeCork

Yet I still hear people say she won the VP debate against Biden. I actually felt sorry for her during that debate. She sounded like a total airhead.

She was a broken record in that debate too. She's always a broken record and will repeat the same phrases, yokelisms, fake accent, inflections, symbolism, and cliches for the foreseeable future.

191 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:09:55pm

re: #188 wrenchwench

Yep. Bigots talking on camera. Bad moment.

I hope they do talk. People need to see how crazy these people are.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:10:22pm

re: #191 Dark_Falcon

I hope they do talk. People need to see how crazy these people are.

I doubt all of them will be able to keep their mouths shut.

193 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:11:13pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Husband is sad, being macho American man, says he's trying to 'be cool' with the whole situation.

Thank God, MIL1 says that after it's over, she's going to go to Tennessee and visit with SIL and the granddaughters for a while. This is better than her last plan, which was to go on a road trip by herself with her failing vision and a chihuahua to protect her.

Hey now, chihuahuas can be vicious little creatures! Why, just the other day, I had a particularly fierce one gnawing on my ankle! I've never been so afraid for my own life!

/

194 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:11:40pm

The Pocket Guide of Sarah Palin Bromides - $4.95

/

195 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:12:25pm

re: #186 CarleeCork

Yet I still hear people say she won the VP debate against Biden. I actually felt sorry for her during that debate. She sounded like a total airhead.

For all his flaws -- and they are legion -- I will always give Biden credit for holding back during that debate when Palin implied that she was more in touch with America because she was a mother. Given what that man went through in losing his wife and daughter, and almost losing his boys, I thought she was a low-rent, classless bitch for saying it.

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:12:29pm

Comments on hot air are really really psycho today: [Link: hotair.com...]

I'm glad we have a window into how these peoples' minds work, we can see the GOP operatives that are operating on their fears, how it gets into their heads and recycled into what they believe are original thoughts. It's useful information to have, they don't have to hide, they can let their bigot flag fly, they're among like-minded people

197 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:12:38pm

Right, "In the name of Freedom give up your rights!, Only that can keep you Free!"

Just how stupid are these people? Don't they know anything about history and people being led into giving up their freedoms to follow the petty hatreds of demagogues?

/I guess not apparently...:(

198 Capitalist Tool  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:14:40pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

Bless her heart.
No matter what, there are so many issues with any care performed by others. It's sad, really, the way health services work.

Just went through the whole process with a close family member... watched one mistake after another by the doctors and staff as they put my Mom in intensive care with their mistakes twice and never did get half of what they tried done correctly.
The whole hospice process was a lot better, but still had a lot of daily mistakes that exacerbated her suffering.

Hope things go so much better for your MIL.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:15:01pm

re: #197 ausador

Right, "In the name of Freedom give up your rights!, Only that can keep you Free!"

Just how stupid are these people? Don't they know anything about history and people being led into giving up their freedoms to follow the petty hatreds of demagogues?

/I guess not apparently...:(

Know anything about it? My dear fellow, they're absolutely COUNTING on it.

200 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:16:03pm

re: #42 Charles

Wilders: "Not a single church is allowed in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so why should we do that?"

That's because this is not a Dark Age kleptocracy run by religious kooks and venal profiteers. That could all change in November though.

201 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:16:30pm

re: #195 Lidane

For all his flaws -- and they are legion -- I will always give Biden credit for holding back during that debate when Palin implied that she was more in touch with America because she was a mother. Given what that man went through in losing his wife and daughter, and almost losing his boys, I thought she was a low-rent, classless bitch for saying it.

Yeah, that was one of those debate low-blows that can only leave one to conclude the person responsible is either truly ignorant or truly malicious. Even Edwards jab at Cheney in '04 about his daughter does not rise to that level.

202 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:16:59pm

re: #188 wrenchwench

Yep. Bigots talking on camera. Bad moment.

The fact that Geller even has to tell her groupies not to talk to anyone on their way out says that she knows how far out of the mainstream her cause is...and that she must hide it from the mainstream by any means necessary.

*spit*

203 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:17:16pm

re: #200 Shiplord Kirel

That's because this is not a Dark Age kleptocracy run by religious kooks and venal profiteers. That could all change in November though.

Gonna be a fun ride in a couple months!

204 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:17:17pm

re: #196 WindUpBird

Comments on hot air are really really psycho today: [Link: hotair.com...]

I'm glad we have a window into how these peoples' minds work, we can see the GOP operatives that are operating on their fears, how it gets into their heads and recycled into what they believe are original thoughts. It's useful information to have, they don't have to hide, they can let their bigot flag fly, they're among like-minded people

Heh. Looks like some of them turned against Ed Morrissey for not blaming all of Islam:

Update II: The comments are predictably filling up with rebukes over my supposed failure to blame all of Islam for the 9/11 attacks, even though I mention the fact that radical Islamism was the motive in the very first paragraph. Well, if that’s true, then I presume the same commenters will be demanding our immediate withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan, since in both cases we are trying to create self-government for followers of Islam rather than attempting to wipe them out. George W. Bush, whatever his other shortcomings on domestic policy, fought this war tenaciously and superbly, and knew that we have as many admirers in that part of the world as detractors. If the entire religion is our enemy, then why bother with Iraq and Afghanistan at all?

There are over a billion Muslims in the world. Do many of them have sympathy for AQ and radical Islamist theology? Undoubtedly, but hardly all of them. But there have always been radical movements violently opposed to freedom and liberty in this world, and we have always known how to take a balanced and effective approach to dealing with it.

Behold the monster they've created.

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:18:29pm

re: #195 Lidane

For all his flaws -- and they are legion -- I will always give Biden credit for holding back during that debate when Palin implied that she was more in touch with America because she was a mother. Given what that man went through in losing his wife and daughter, and almost losing his boys, I thought she was a low-rent, classless bitch for saying it.

I forgot all about that crack, ugh

206 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:18:56pm

re: #202 talon_262

The fact that Geller even has to tell her groupies not to talk to anyone on their way out says that she knows how far out of the mainstream her cause is...and that she must hide it from the mainstream by any means necessary.

*spit*


"Don't make me look bad, homies!"

207 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:19:36pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Husband is sad, being macho American man, says he's trying to 'be cool' with the whole situation.

Thank God, MIL1 says that after it's over, she's going to go to Tennessee and visit with SIL and the granddaughters for a while. This is better than her last plan, which was to go on a road trip by herself with her failing vision and a chihuahua to protect her.


I feel for you. My 90 year-old Mom lives with my sister in TN, wants to come back to Texas. My other sister and I refuse until she agrees to assisted living. She has mucular degeneration (legally blind), has had one broken hip replaced and uses a walker or cane. Believes with all her heart she can come back to Texas and live alone. I am really ready to rip my hair out.

208 Cato the Elder  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:19:37pm

9/11 unleashed a plenitude of demons.

Some of them used to post here - like Pam, and Robert.

Full disclosure: I was taken in by and taken with Spencer. For a while, I was a demon myself. Some of the things I wrote here and elsewhere about Islam and Muslims now make me blush for very shame.

But even demons can reform. If they are fortunate enough to encounter an angel or two.

Pam has so far progressed into the demoniacal that I frankly see no hope for her, barring a miracle.

Pam: I hope one of your daughters meets a nice Muslim guy and converts.

209 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:20:31pm

re: #186 CarleeCork

Yet I still hear people say she won the VP debate against Biden. I actually felt sorry for her during that debate. She sounded like a total airhead.

Starburst, ma'am. Starbursts.

210 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:21:10pm

re: #204 Gus 802

Heh. Looks like some of them turned against Ed Morrissey for not blaming all of Islam:

Behold the monster they've created.

yeah, see, that's the thing, the people who got the ball rolling on this, have realized it's moving too fast, they're trying to moderate, but the rabble have tasted blood and they won't stop

it's like, gosh guys, when you dog whistle and then the dog responds, stop complaining that the dog responded!

Frum was right, it's the fox news/talker crowd that wags the GOP now, they can't stop it. crazies are empowered, the new GOP is eating the old GOP

211 Amory Blaine  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:03pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

9/11 unleashed a plenitude of demons.

But even demons can reform. If they are fortunate enough to encounter an angel or two.

You have more hope than I do sir.

May I borrow a cup of it please.

212 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:08pm

re: #210 WindUpBird

Then, what must the Democrats do to defeat the monster of bigotry?

213 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:12pm

They should just move the mosque.

214 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:18pm

re: #209 JasonA

Starburst, ma'am. Starbursts.


Stiletto heels, legs and a tight skirt.

215 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:27pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

9/11 unleashed a plenitude of demons.

Some of them used to post here - like Pam, and Robert.

Full disclosure: I was taken in by and taken with Spencer. For a while, I was a demon myself. Some of the things I wrote here and elsewhere about Islam and Muslims now make me blush for very shame.

But even demons can reform. If they are fortunate enough to encounter an angel or two.

Pam has so far progressed into the demoniacal that I frankly see no hope for her, barring a miracle.

Pam: I hope one of your daughters meets a nice Muslim guy and converts.

Well, her star is rising, so unless her star falls, she'll never stop, this is making her, this is her stamp on America, once people like that get a taste of power...

216 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:22:44pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

What mosque?

217 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:23:03pm

re: #214 CarleeCork

Stiletto heels, legs and a tight skirt.

Rawr.

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:24:34pm

re: #212 ProLifeLiberal

Then, what must the Democrats do to defeat the monster of bigotry?

Not sure they can! The momentum of this anti-muslim sentiment has picked up too much speed

I think the die was cast when Obama was elected, we got what I expected we'd get, which was all the racists coming out of the woodwork. What i didn't expect was how much the GOP colluded with them. Guess that's politics in America, anything goes

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:24:55pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

Do you think that is really what this is about?

220 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:25:08pm

re: #212 ProLifeLiberal

Then, what must the Democrats do to defeat the monster of bigotry?


I told people back in 1994 that the Democrats needed to find their own Karl Rove. Imagine what I heard back?

The truth is, people need bumper sticker sound bites in this country.

They have short attention spans, as evidenced by all the 'idol' shows and reality shows.

221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:25:15pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

Take off, hoser

222 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:25:28pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think that is really what this is about?

Sure it is. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.

//

223 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:25:39pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think that is really what this is about?

heh, I think obvious troll is obvious

224 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:25:40pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

Go back to bed, Rip Van Winkle.

225 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:26:24pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.


How far? Is Saudi Arabia far enough?

226 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:26:42pm

Here's one of the EDL thugs standing next to someone with a t-shirt labeled "Youth for Western Civilization" -- a thinly veiled white nationalist student group that often promotes alliances with Eurofascists.

Image: ZZ55AC93F6.jpg

227 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:26:47pm

re: #220 CarleeCork

I told people back in 1994 that the Democrats needed to find their own Karl Rove. Imagine what I heard back?

The truth is, people need bumper sticker sound bites in this country.

They have short attention spans, as evidenced by all the 'idol' shows and reality shows.

I agree, Democrats need to hit harder

Democrats are really bad politicians overall, which I guess is the attraction for people like me, just simply less slimy and less ruthless and less monoculture, they don't have the killer instinct like the GOP does

228 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:26:55pm

I mean look. Spencer, Geller, Wilders, SIOA, EDL, etc. were all perfectly reasonable before this Park51 plan came up.

//

229 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:27:23pm

re: #217 JasonA

Unfortunately, Palin is hideous inside, and holds no attractiveness as a result. A woman's heart and mind must be as beautiful, if not more than, her exterior.

Hoo boy, I hope that wasn't offensive to anyone.

re: #213 Floridagirl

Why should they be forced to move because of the actions of a few evil people associated distantly with them religiously, exactly?

230 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:27:27pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

Image: facepalm.jpg

231 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:27:34pm

re: #228 Gus 802

I mean look. Spencer, Geller, Wilders, SIOA, EDL, etc. were all perfectly reasonable before this Park51 plan came up.

//

If you can't trust an english skinhead, who can you trust?

232 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:27:35pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

Congratulations on being easily manipulated by a bunch of self-serving rabble rousers. Now empty your bank account and send it to Robert Spencer, just to be safe.

233 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:27:52pm

Here's a blast from the past:

339 Floridagirl 10/02/2009 6:59:09 pm PDT

What is a sock puppet? A troll?

234 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:28:08pm

re: #233 wrenchwench

Here's a blast from the past:

ahahahahaha

235 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:28:25pm

The Ground Zero mosque, and yes, zionist, among other things.

236 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:28:33pm

re: #233 wrenchwench

Here's a blast from the past:

Uh oh! It's a duck!

//

237 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:29:04pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

Other things? Like what, pray tell?

238 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:29:28pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

Obvious troll is obvious. Go away.

239 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:29:37pm

re: #220 CarleeCork

I told people back in 1994 that the Democrats needed to find their own Karl Rove. Imagine what I heard back?

The truth is, people need bumper sticker sound bites in this country.

They have short attention spans, as evidenced by all the 'idol' shows and reality shows.


PIMF
That should read 2004, and the other post was supposed to say macular degeneration. I think I need readers.

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:30:02pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

The Ground Zero mosque, and yes, zionist, among other things.

You are extremely stupid: [Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

241 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:30:15pm

Speak for yourself Jaunte

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:30:40pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

The Ground Zero mosque, and yes, zionist, among other things.

I disagree. I think it's an excuse for, not a cause of.

243 blueraven  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:30:45pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

The Ground Zero mosque, and yes, zionist, among other things.

You should be ashamed...on this day.

244 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:31:23pm

re: #237 JasonA

Other things? Like what, pray tell?

Well, black guy in the white house for one

Constitution that protects free practice of religion, for another, can't have those brown people worshippin'. That just ain't my flowda Amurka!

245 researchok  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:31:24pm

Interesting.

And I've got time and a whole bowl of popcorn

246 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:31:58pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

Where? Murfreesboro, Tennessee?
The fact is, any attempt to build or establish a new Islamic facility anywhere in the country is likely to meet with this kind of opposition. The opponents take their cues from the Geller/Spencer gang and its media enablers. They have the advantage of a ready-made package of sound bites, talking points and signs distributed through the existing network of the Tea Party movement. That movement, in turn, uses the channels and connections established by the religious right over the past 30 years and therefore extends into the remotest hamlet. Indeed it flourishes in such places.

247 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:31:58pm

re: #241 Floridagirl

You're afraid of freedom. Go away.

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:32:34pm

re: #241 Floridagirl

Speak for yourself Jaunte



Hey, hold still for a minute

249 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:32:38pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

Let's see. How about the Muslim services that are held in the chapel of the Pentagon which is built on the very location of the 911 impact zone? Essentially they hold Mosque services during that time.

250 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:32:42pm

re: #241 Floridagirl

Speak for yourself Jaunte

So when exactly did you start to hate Muslims?

251 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:32:55pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

ahahahahaha

Well, at least we have you here, WUB. It's always fun to watch you torment the trolls before we grill 'em.

252 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:33:31pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Know anything about it? My dear fellow, they're absolutely COUNTING on it.

*Nods*
Then goes back to re-assembling his M1-D military surplus sniper rifle with a Weaver 330C scope attached after a thorough break down and cleaning.

/"Over my dead body" (which seems to be getting further away from being a purely cliched statement every day. :( )

253 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:33:38pm

re: #241 Floridagirl

Are you a garden variety troll or are you a stalker troll?

254 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:34:35pm

I'm making a peanut sauce marinade for dinner.

I'll put some aside if anyone want some for the troll.

255 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:34:39pm

re: #246 Shiplord Kirel

Where? Murfreesboro, Tennessee?
The fact is, any attempt to build or establish a new Islamic facility anywhere in the country is likely to meet with this kind of opposition. The opponents take their cues from the Geller/Spencer gang and its media enablers. They have the advantage of a ready-made package of sound bites, talking points and signs distributed through the existing network of the Tea Party movement. That movement, in turn, uses the channels and connections established by the religious right over the past 30 years and therefore extends into the remotest hamlet. Indeed it flourishes in such places.

Wingnut map of "Ground Zero"

256 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:34:52pm

Some info on 'Youth for Western Civilization:'

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

257 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:35:22pm

re: #252 ausador

*Nods*
Then goes back to re-assembling his M1-D military surplus sniper rifle with a Weaver 330C scope attached after a thorough break down and cleaning.

/"Over my dead body" (which seems to be getting further away from being a purely cliched statement every day. :( )

.30 Sniper rifle? Remind me never to piss you off.

258 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:35:33pm

re: #227 WindUpBird

I agree, Democrats need to hit harder

Democrats are really bad politicians overall, which I guess is the attraction for people like me, just simply less slimy and less ruthless and less monoculture, they don't have the killer instinct like the GOP does


Democrats aren't bullies. Quite a few Republicans are. I don't dare put a bumper sticker on my car. I don't want it keyed or to be shot at. Texas sucks.

259 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:36:24pm

re: #253 Reginald Perrin

Are you a garden variety troll or are you a stalker troll?

Say something about snorkie. That'll give us a clue.

260 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:37:52pm

re: #256 Charles

Some info on 'Youth for Western Civilization:'

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]


At what point is "conservatism" in America just indistinguishable from nativist crazy

At what point do we just look around and come to the conclusion that you cannot vote for "conservative" values in America anymore, without these people getting more powerful

I like this line:

“Diversity can be good in moderation — if what is being brought in is desirable,” Epstein wrote in one VDARE.com essay. “Most Americans don’t mind a little ethnic food, some Asian math whizzes, or a few Mariachi dancers — as long as these trends do not overwhelm the dominant culture.”

"We like black people when they dance for us, we just don't want them voting or dating our daughters or thinking for themselves."

261 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:38:49pm

Gotta run. BBL

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:38:57pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

At what point is "conservatism" in America just indistinguishable from nativist crazy

At what point do we just look around and come to the conclusion that you cannot vote for "conservative" values in America anymore, without these people getting more powerful

I like this line:

"We like black people when they dance for us, we just don't want them voting or dating our daughters or thinking for themselves."

The moron who said that, BTW, is Korean-American, and Jewish. I'm actually worried about his sanity.

263 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:39:18pm

Dutch divided over Mr Wilders at Ground Zero
RNW

Twenty percent of the Dutch population approve of far-right politician Geert Wilders' speaking at today's 9/11 ceremonies in New York, according to a national survey. Around 41 percent are neutral and 39 percent disapprove.

264 Winny Spencer  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:39:34pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

"And don't you dare call us racists because of it."

265 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:09pm

re: #235 Floridagirl

The Ground Zero mosque, and yes, zionist, among other things.

Claiming zionism is a poor deodorant for acting like a religiously intolerant, overtly bigoted piece of trash.

"First they came for the Sufis, and I did not speak up because I was a gutless coward."

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:15pm

re: #258 CarleeCork

Democrats aren't bullies. Quite a few Republicans are. I don't dare put a bumper sticker on my car. I don't want it keyed or to be shot at. Texas sucks.

Yeah, I don't put stickers on my car for that reason, I just don't want some rube deciding I'm going to be the guy he runs off the road because he lost his job or his daughter started dating someone too pigmented

I could see a thing where I put a big huge Obama magnet on my car and drive around Texas, but I'd only do it in an armored vehicle and my friend with the concealed carry permit riding shotgun :D

267 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:18pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

“Most Americans don’t mind a little ethnic food, some Asian math whizzes, or a few Mariachi dancers — as long as these trends do not overwhelm the dominant culture.”

I can't tell you how happy I am to live in a place where there's very little of this.

268 Cato the Elder  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:44pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

You should just move your skanky Florida ass over to Freeperville.

269 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:46pm

re: #256 Charles

Here it comes round again:

Youth for Western Civilization didn’t wait for CPAC before throwing its first event. Yesterday, the group sponsored a lecture by immigrant-bashing former Congressman Tom Tancredo on the campus of American University in Washington, D.C. Tancredo spoke on “Immigration Reform and the Need for Assimilation.”

The same topic is addressed in a recent VDARE.com essay that’s featured on the Youth for Western Civilization website. It lashes out at political analyst Michael Barone for “…claim[ing], despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, that the Great Wave of European (Italian, Irish, Jewish, et. al.) immigration of 100 years ago was assimilated without any real hiccups, and without changing the character of the country.

“Butanyone who has watched machine politics in action in cities like B. Hussein Obama’s Chicago, or knows anything about the Mafia, or is at all familiar with how largely Jewish intellectual elites have utterly transformed American social and political discourse, knows that is nonsense.”[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:40:59pm

re: #265 goddamnedfrank

Claiming zionism is a poor deodorant for acting like a religiously intolerant, overtly bigoted piece of trash.

"First they came for the Sufis, and I did not speak up because I was a gutless coward."

Oh, I thought she was taling to me.

271 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:41:07pm

re: #258 CarleeCork

Democrats aren't bullies. Quite a few Republicans are. I don't dare put a bumper sticker on my car. I don't want it keyed or to be shot at. Texas sucks.

I had a bumper sticker on one of my old cars and came out to angry notes left under my wiper blades telling me I was going to burn in hell for being a terrorist-loving liberal, and that they were praying for me. It scared me.

I haven't done anything since. When I get my next car, the most I'll ever put on it is one of those metal car emblems for my university. Anything more than that is just asking for trouble in this state.

272 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:41:25pm

re: #265 goddamnedfrank

She was replying to SFZ.

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:41:28pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

The moron who said that, BTW, is Korean-American, and Jewish. I'm actually worried about his sanity.

Well, he has a friend in Star Parker, who is one of the finest race traitors at the Value Voters Summit, just an exemplary specimen of deluded stepinfetchit crazy

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:42:12pm

re: #266 WindUpBird

Yeah, I don't put stickers on my car for that reason, I just don't want some rube deciding I'm going to be the guy he runs off the road because he lost his job or his daughter started dating someone too pigmented

I could see a thing where I put a big huge Obama magnet on my car and drive around Texas, but I'd only do it in an armored vehicle and my friend with the concealed carry permit riding shotgun :D

During some past gubernatorial election, apparently Ann Richardson's staffers used to goad each other to go on road trips through Texas with a bumper sticker reading "I'm the queer Ann sent to take your guns away".

First one back to Austin alive won.

275 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:42:15pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

Th shld jst mv th msq.

How about...no?

Seriously, how close to Ground Zero is too close for the bigots and xenophobes? If Imam Rauf and the CI did agree to relocate their project, what about the other two mosques/prayer areas in the immediate area (that predate the WTC by more than a decade, IIRC)? Will they have to move too, to avoid "desecrating" Ground Zero?

How far do the bigots and xenophobes need to move the goalposts before logical people say "enough"?

276 Lidane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:42:58pm

re: #266 WindUpBird

I could see a thing where I put a big huge Obama magnet on my car and drive around Texas, but I'd only do it in an armored vehicle and my friend with the concealed carry permit riding shotgun :D

The only Obama gear I bought in 2008 was a couple of small pins to throw into my collection of political swag. I never wore them. You just never know who you're going to find just walking down the street.

277 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:43:14pm

re: #271 Lidane

In Colorado Springs, someone ran into the door of my Car. It had Obama Stickers on them. They since been removed and placed elsewhere.

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:43:16pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

During some past gubernatorial election, apparently Ann Richardson's staffers used to goad each other to go on road trips through Texas with a bumper sticker reading "I'm the queer Ann sent to take your guns away".

First one back to Austin alive won.

Oh Christ :D

There was that thing on Top Gear where the guys were driving through like Alabama with stuff spraypainted on their cars like "I HEART HILLARY" and "MAN LOVE? OK!"

279 Interesting Times  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:43:41pm

re: #271 Lidane

I had a bumper sticker on one of my old cars and came out to angry notes left under my wiper blades telling me I was going to burn in hell for being a terrorist-loving liberal, and that they were praying for me. It scared me.

How much do you want to bet the same people who did that are the type who post on freakrepublic claiming only Muslims react in a violent or intimidating fashion when you disagree with them? 9_9

280 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:43:51pm

re: #252 ausador

*Nods*
Then goes back to re-assembling his M1-D military surplus sniper rifle with a Weaver 330C scope attached after a thorough break down and cleaning.

/"Over my dead body" (which seems to be getting further away from being a purely cliched statement every day. :( )

Nice, but I'll stick to a Mauser bolt myself.

As for the other, alas, Babylon.

281 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:43:55pm

GDfrank, I was replying to SFzionist

282 elizajane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:44:24pm

re: #263 Gus 802

Dutch divided over Mr Wilders at Ground Zero
RNW

It's hard to know how to take this. The most lefty Dutch might approve of him speaking here because they are extremely anti-American and would feel good about lumping Wilders in with us. I've had my fair share of anti-Americanism in Holland, although much less since the 2008 election.

The more paranoid Dutch might also think that the more he spouts off in NY instead of in A'dam, the greater the chances that the next terrorist attack will be on another sky-scraper and not, say, on a dike.

Anyway, I wouldn't think that the 20% who approve of him speaking in New York are necessarily the 20% (or whatever) who support him.

283 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:44:44pm

re: #243 blueraven

You should be ashamed...on this day.

Bigots, xenophobes, and shitheads often have no shame...

284 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:44:50pm

Image: summerofhate.jpg

TIMELINE: Nine months of the right's anti-Muslim bigotry

Cheered on by Fox News and the rest of the right-wing media, conservative activists spent the past year engaged in an anti-Muslim campaign that included efforts to block the planned Islamic center in lower Manhattan and demonize the imam spearheading the project. The bigotry has culminated in a Florida pastor's now-"suspended" plans to burn Qurans on September 11 -- plans that the pastor has explicitly linked to the controversy over the Islamic center...

285 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:45:30pm

Blueraven, what should I be ashamed of?

286 Gus  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:45:53pm

re: #282 elizajane

It's hard to know how to take this. The most lefty Dutch might approve of him speaking here because they are extremely anti-American and would feel good about lumping Wilders in with us. I've had my fair share of anti-Americanism in Holland, although much less since the 2008 election.

The more paranoid Dutch might also think that the more he spouts off in NY instead of in A'dam, the greater the chances that the next terrorist attack will be on another sky-scraper and not, say, on a dike.

Anyway, I wouldn't think that the 20% who approve of him speaking in New York are necessarily the 20% (or whatever) who support him.

Yeah. Looks like those that strictly approve are in the minority. 39 percent opposed is a good number and a good reflection of the sane Dutch people.

287 Interesting Times  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:46:11pm

re: #283 talon_262

Bigots, xenophobes, and shitheads often have no shame...

And no brains, since they can't even figure out how to use the Reply and Quote buttons on this site.

288 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:46:11pm

>re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I thought she was taling to me.

That's what I thought too.

Maybe the troll will be kind enough to explain what it meant.

289 elizajane  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:47:27pm

re: #285 Floridagirl

Blueraven, what should I be ashamed of?

Of your pals there in Gainsville?

290 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:47:55pm

re: #281 Floridagirl

Are you here to stalk SFZ?

291 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:48:16pm

re: #226 Charles

Here's one of the EDL thugs standing next to someone with a t-shirt labeled "Youth for Western Civilization" -- a thinly veiled white nationalist student group that often promotes alliances with Eurofascists.

Image: ZZ55AC93F6.jpg

SPLC on YFWC & their "debut" at CPAC--

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

292 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:48:33pm

re: #289 elizajane


Found the reply button...I assume you are not talking about the Gators

293 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:48:37pm

re: #285 Floridagirl

Blueraven, what should I be ashamed of?


Being an ignorant bitch.

294 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:49:06pm

bleh... I need to realize that if I'm working around the house that you are going to find the link before I get around to it....

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:49:12pm

re: #285 Floridagirl

Blueraven, what should I be ashamed of?

You wouldn't happen to be a Young Libertarian?

296 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:05pm

They should just move the mosque

apparently these people own the united states and people "just" have to do whatever they say

297 CarleeCork  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:13pm

BBIAB I'm off to prep dinner and grill salmon.

298 jaunte  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:21pm

re: #293 CarleeCork

Probably not actually a girl, just trolling.

299 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:37pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

At what point is "conservatism" in America just indistinguishable from nativist crazy

At what point do we just look around and come to the conclusion that you cannot vote for "conservative" values in America anymore, without these people getting more powerful

I like this line:

"We like black people when they dance for us, we just don't want them voting or dating our daughters or thinking for themselves."

One of the really disturbing things about the current crop of nativists is their relative ignorance of their own heritage. There is no "there" there for them.
They know nothing of the Scots-Irish origin of the Appalachian and Ozark hill people, for example, let alone who the Scots-Irish really were. They don't know how the different waves of immigration have each left a distinctive imprint on the kaleidoscope of American culture. To them, their ancestors sprang from the Earth sometime before about 1920, originating in a misty (and dusty) world of clapboard churches, Model Ts, and faded gingham dresses from the Sears catalog.

300 blueraven  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:43pm

re: #285 Floridagirl

Blueraven, what should I be ashamed of?

Right off the bat...ignoring the Constitution and the Spirit of America on a day that should be about all of those things.

301 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:50:46pm

Actually, humanity has to get away from all organized, hierarchical religion if it it to continue on the path of freedom, I think.

Sort of, what if they built a mosque (church, etc) and nobody came?

302 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:51:30pm

re: #301 Ojoe

Actually, humanity has to get away from all organized, hierarchical religion if it it to continue on the path of freedom, I think.

Sort of, what if they built a mosque (church, etc) and nobody came?

You're not helping

303 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:53:03pm

re: #302 WindUpBird

Lincoln did not belong to any church.

304 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:53:35pm

re: #301 Ojoe

Actually, humanity has to get away from all organized, hierarchical religion if it it to continue on the path of freedom, I think.

Sort of, what if they built a mosque (church, etc) and nobody came?

I believe Islam is considered non-hierarchical.

305 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:53:38pm

re: #300 blueraven

I just expressed an opinion, and therefore I did all that??

306 blueraven  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:55:15pm

re: #305 Floridagirl

yes...you can express your opinion. They can build their Islamic center. See how that works?

307 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:55:16pm

Also note for the record that their is some cross pollination between the Kyle Bristow YAF crowd and YFWC...

308 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:55:27pm

re: #305 Floridagirl

I just expressed an opinion, and therefore I did all that??

Sooo.. why should they move the "mosque" then?

309 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:56:15pm

re: #301 Ojoe

Actually, humanity has to get away from all organized, hierarchical religion if it it to continue on the path of freedom, I think.

Sort of, what if they built a mosque (church, etc) and nobody came?

also, you know full well there is a massive racist undercurrent to what these people are doing re: Park 51, hatred of Islam is the hard candy shell, and the nougaty center is rage about people who are pigmented just a little too much and don't look like them and who don't make the same flag-waving doughy ignorant white guy who eats at Applebees noises

I mean, we just got done quoting this here

“Diversity can be good in moderation — if what is being brought in is desirable,” Epstein wrote in one VDARE.com essay. “Most Americans don’t mind a little ethnic food, some Asian math whizzes, or a few Mariachi dancers — as long as these trends do not overwhelm the dominant culture.”

How does your bonkers faithfree utopia respond to this? What religion is "asian"? What religion is "ethnic"? What religion is "mariachi dancer"?

The problem isn't religion.

The problem is bigotry.

I've pretty much given up expecting you to acknowledge this, you're such a broken record

310 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:57:00pm

Ooops here's the YAF watch link
[Link: yafwatch.blogspot.com...]

311 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:57:38pm

re: #303 Ojoe

Lincoln did not belong to any church.



Piggybacking on Lincoln with your foolishness

You really just want to double down, don't you

312 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:57:59pm

re: #309 WindUpBird

Organized religion promotes bigotry

313 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:58:22pm

re: #305 Floridagirl

I just expressed an opinion, and therefore I did all that??

come back and complain to us if and when somebody decides to build a mosque on your front lawn

short of that, what the hell business is it of yours where anything is built?

314 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:58:46pm

re: #308 JasonA

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

315 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #314 Floridagirl

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

Why not?

316 Reginald Perrin  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:00:57pm

re: #314 Floridagirl

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

Burlington Coat Factory outlet store?

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:01:17pm

re: #312 Ojoe

Organized religion promotes bigotry

yeah, no it actually doesn't, any more than government promotes bigotry, or humans promote bigotry, or Dennys promotes bigotry, or interstate 5 promotes bigotry

Bigots promote bigotry, and bigots are everywhere. Some are in churches, some are athiests. Some are anti-government, some are pro government.

I will say this: operatives and candidates in the GOP is using bigots like nobody else to win elections. That much is dead certain. That seems to be the elephant in the room you want to ignore.

318 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:02:19pm

Don't feed the florida troll guys

staccato one sentence responses, the least amount of effort to keep us engaged, dead giveaway, YL92 behavior. Probably not him, but the same behavior

319 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:02:33pm

re: #314 Floridagirl

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

we have an interesting principle here in the united states whereby people are allowed to purchase real estate and build anything they want on it as long as it conforms to local laws and regulations

320 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:03:55pm

re: #319 engineer dog

we have an interesting principle here in the united states whereby people are allowed to purchase real estate and build anything they want on it as long as it conforms to local laws and regulations

Hey cool. We have that same principle here in Canada as well. I think it has something to do with private property rights or something.....

321 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:06:37pm

re: #320 Jadespring

Hey cool. We have that same principle here in Canada as well. I think it has something to do with private property rights or something...

nah, i heard you guys are all socialists or presbyterians or something...

322 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:06:43pm

re: #314 Floridagirl

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

Because they bought it, fair and square, after the previous owner struggled for years to sell the property. If the ground is so sacred, why did it lie fallow for so long? They own it, hands down, and they have the lease on the adjacent property with a legal option to buy. It's theirs by right under a free market economy, so a better question is why must you take it away? Your childish emotions aren't interesting to me, throwing a temper tantrum over the project isn't a substitute for valid argument and reasoning.

323 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:08:32pm

re: #312 Ojoe

Organized religion promotes bigotry

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?”

-Rabbi Hillel the Elder

324 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:09:57pm

re: #321 engineer dog

nah, i heard you guys are all socialists or presbyterians or something...

No! Not presbyterians! I can't believe you said that. I'm so hurt. :(

// :D

325 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:11:28pm

re: #323 goddamnedfrank

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?”

-Rabbi Hillel the Elder

I'm sure the jewish people here will be pleased to hear from Ojoe that their religion promotes bigotry

326 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:17:11pm

re: #322 goddamnedfrank

Gosh, Frank, get a grip, I've not emoted at all....I just share the same opinion that most of the country does...move it a few blocks and done...I am not advocating that they give up their property rights, nor am I saying they should be forcefully taken from them...I bet someone will cut them a good deal a few blocks away, they build their mosque, worship Allah, do their outreach, simple...

327 Amory Blaine  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #321 engineer dog

nah, i heard you guys are all socialists or presbyterians or something...

It is where the Tory Loyalists ran to.

328 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:19:47pm

re: #322 goddamnedfrank


By the way,when an owner struggles to sell real estate, it's overpriced. Again, simple.

329 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #328 Floridagirl

By the way,when an owner struggles to sell real estate, it's overpriced. Again, simple.

Do you think less of the former owner for selling to stinkin' Muslims?

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:23:49pm

re: #326 Floridagirl

Gosh, Frank, get a grip, I've not emoted at all...I just share the same opinion that most of the country does...move it a few blocks and done...I am not advocating that they give up their property rights, nor am I saying they should be forcefully taken from them...I bet someone will cut them a good deal a few blocks away, they build their mosque, worship Allah, do their outreach, simple...

You know that's their neighborhood, right?

You know muslims were killed in the 9.11 attacks, right?

You know there's a mosque near the WTC site that predates the WTC itself, right?

You know there's a muslim prayer center in the Pentagon Itself, right? Literally inside a building attacked

You are completely illogical. Your reasoning has no basis in facts or reality.

You are on the wrong side of history. braying bigots do not get to tell people where they can worship. Breitbart does not get to tell people where they can worship. hate bloggers do not get to tell people where they can worship. Skinheads do not get to tell people where they can worship. Paranoid dutch nativists do not get to tell people where they can worship.

These muslims are AMERICANS.

They are just as American as you are. Really, more so, because you don't seem to appreciate the constitution, you think you can just wipe your ass with it when a plurality of America is stirred up by vicious politicians. If a majority of americans got to supersede the constitution, we'd never have had a civil rights act. Maybe that appeals to you.

Gullible Americans who are uninformed and easily led like sheep do not get to tell people where they can worship.

Freedom is a real thing, it's not conditional.

So yeah, enjoy breaking bread with skinheads. Enjoy agreeing with their sentiments.

331 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:24:11pm

re: #329 JasonA

No

332 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:30:03pm

Go look at the photo of the bigot - mobile up top, it is full of references to religion - I can make out Jeremiah, sin, Exodus, & there would be more if the resolution were higher.

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:38:50pm

re: #332 Ojoe

Go look at the photo of the bigot - mobile up top, it is full of references to religion - I can make out Jeremiah, sin, Exodus, & there would be more if the resolution were higher.

Keep on swingin' tiger, you'll eventually get a base hit

334 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:40:05pm

re: #330 WindUpBird

re: #330 WindUpBird

Woundupbird, I don't know any skinheads, but whatevah...

70% of New Yorkers want it moved, plurality, you say?

335 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:41:59pm

re: #334 Floridagirl

re: #330 WindUpBird

Woundupbird, I don't know any skinheads, but whatevah...

70% of New Yorkers want it moved, plurality, you say?


Do you have a link for that stat?

336 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:44:25pm

re: #335 Jadespring

[Link: newsone.com...]

337 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:45:29pm

re: #334 Floridagirl

re: #330 WindUpBird

Woundupbird, I don't know any skinheads, but whatevah...

70% of New Yorkers want it moved, plurality, you say?

And even if it's true so what? 90% of my neighbors really want the weird guy who lives in the house across the road to move. Too bad as a full fledged citizen who has rights, owns the property and is doing nothing wrong except being weird and anti-social our desires and 'feelings' don't mean squat.

338 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:48:02pm

re: #336 Floridagirl

[Link: newsone.com...]

Which comes from this NY Daily News article that has its own poll which says 77% want it there.

339 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:49:01pm

re: #337 Jadespring

I am not arguing that they don't have property rights. They do.

340 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:50:47pm

re: #339 Floridagirl

I am not arguing that they don't have property rights. They do.

Are your feelings more important than their rights?

341 dmon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:51:32pm

I'd really like someone to explain how not allowing churches at mecca effects my life here in the U.S........dont see it

342 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:52:26pm

re: #338 marjoriemoon

Umm Marjorie...c'mon. You compare that to quinnipiac?

343 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:53:02pm

re: #340 wrenchwench

No

344 dmon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:53:53pm

re: #338 marjoriemoon

Which comes from this NY Daily News article that has its own poll which says 77% want it there.

Im sure that a majority of voters in Alabama wanted black to attend a different school....thats exactly what makes our country great.....our constitution doesnt give a shit what the majority wants when it comes to individual rights

345 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:54:41pm

re: #343 Floridagirl

No

Then what's the problem? Why should they move it?

346 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:55:15pm

re: #342 Floridagirl

Umm Marjorie...c'mon. You compare that to quinnipiac?

Meaning you can pull polls out of your sleeve all day. Most of the people in Manhattan are fine with it. Hence, they never stopped the sale nor the project from going on. It's not Manhattanites who have the problem and it's in their neighborhood.

Other than the constitution tells you to stick it up your wazoo if you don't like it (in a manner of speaking).

347 Jadespring  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #339 Floridagirl

I am not arguing that they don't have property rights. They do.

Then what exactly are you arguing then? You still haven't said exactly what you're problem is except that 'they just shouldn't do it." And some stuff about 'feelings'.

348 dmon  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 3:56:41pm

re: #347 Jadespring

Then what exactly are you arguing then? You still haven't said exactly what you're problem is except that 'they just shouldn't do it." And some stuff about 'feelings'.

I thought that this was the conservtives problems with a few recent supreme court nominees....... they were afraid they would rule using "feelings".

349 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:01:34pm

re: #342 Floridagirl

You wouldn't happen to live in Tampa would you?

350 kirkspencer  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:02:20pm

Floridagirl.

It's not a mosque, it's a community center. It has a prayer room. This no more makes it a mosque than the prayer rooms make YMCAs into churches.

It's not at ground zero. It's not even in sight of ground zero, being blocked by intervening buildings.

The organizers are Sufi. That's not Wahabbist or other Qutbist sects. It's not even in the same denomination. It's similar to objecting to Greek Orthodox churches because of the IRA.

You don't want to force them because of their rights, but you want them to move because of your feelings. Looking at the three points I've made, I can't understand why you're offended.

At least, not without considering you a bigot.

351 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:03:32pm

re: #349 marjoriemoon

No, why do you ask?

352 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:03:58pm

re: #351 Floridagirl

No, why do you ask?

Just curious.

353 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:06:26pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

You have a mature and reasoned debating style.

354 Floridagirl  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:12:30pm

I am sure all of you have heard the arguments, pro and con....let's just say on this one, despite the rule of law, I am on the side of sensitivity to those who died there and the families that grieve for them. It's an opinion. It's a gut feeling that all involved are not acting in good faith. Time will tell.

I am not advocating confiscation of the property, it very well will be built. That's the way life goes.

355 kirkspencer  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:15:39pm

re: #354 Floridagirl

I am sure all of you have heard the arguments, pro and con...let's just say on this one, despite the rule of law, I am on the side of sensitivity to those who died there and the families that grieve for them. It's an opinion. It's a gut feeling that all involved are not acting in good faith. Time will tell.

I am not advocating confiscation of the property, it very well will be built. That's the way life goes.

But some of those who died there were Muslim, and many of the families have spoken in favor of Park51.

I think you're right about some not acting in good faith, but I think you're looking at the wrong parties.

356 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:16:58pm

re: #354 Floridagirl

I am sure all of you have heard the arguments, pro and con...let's just say on this one, despite the rule of law, I am on the side of sensitivity to those who died there and the families that grieve for them. It's an opinion. It's a gut feeling that all involved are not acting in good faith. Time will tell.

I am not advocating confiscation of the property, it very well will be built. That's the way life goes.

Who's been insensitive during this "mosque" brouhaha?

357 HappyWarrior  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:33:38pm

How do people like Mr. Wilders claim to be for freedom while denying another group the right to religious freedom? Shit you may not like Islam or its belief system but people have the right to be Muslim if they so choose. Just as I have the right to choose not to be Muslim or Christian for that matter.

358 jamesfirecat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:51:18pm

re: #213 Floridagirl

They should just move the mosque.

Because?

359 jamesfirecat  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 4:58:33pm

re: #312 Ojoe

Organized religion promotes bigotry

I sometimes worry that you are right and always pray that you are wrong.

360 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 5:22:53pm

re: #359 jamesfirecat

I hope I am wrong as well.

Boy I had enough of organized religion growing up Catholic, it took me years to get over it. We were advised not to make friends with "non-Catholics,' for instance.
Etc etc etc.

The religion we were taught was ready-made for installing bigotry in our little minds against everyone who was not Catholic.

"All must belong to the Catholic church in order to be saved."

That's pretty much a direct quote from my Baltimore Catechism.

361 sagehen  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 5:59:12pm

re: #354 Floridagirl

I am sure all of you have heard the arguments, pro and con...let's just say on this one, despite the rule of law, I am on the side of sensitivity to those who died there and the families that grieve for them. It's an opinion. It's a gut feeling that all involved are not acting in good faith. Time will tell.

I am not advocating confiscation of the property, it very well will be built. That's the way life goes.

The people who live in the neighborhood support the project, polling is 56-36 they want it there. Manhattan overall wants it there.

The community board voted unanimously to approve the project. The Mayor has spoken out vehemently, repeatedly, in favor of the project. The Borough President supports it. The City Council member, State Assembly Member and Congressional Representatives whose district it's in all support it.

The opposition is from people who never have to be anywhere near it.

People who lived through 9/11, who walked down the stairs, smelled the smoke, spent weeks digging in the rubble, they support it. People who watched 9/11 on TV find it upsetting.

On behalf of all the people of Manhattan, to all the people of Florida -- please be advised that we are not your War On Terror Theme Park. We're an actual real city full of actual real people with actual real lives of our own. Please to stop demanding we be symbolic representations of whatever the hell it is your don't feel you can symbolize for yourselves.

As for Miss Wasilla 1984 feeling "stabbed in the heart" by the existence of New Yorkers going about their own lives in New York... I'm beginning to wish that wasn't just a metaphor.

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 7:07:46pm

re: #312 Ojoe

Organized religion promotes bigotry

MY organized religion doesn't promote bigotry.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 7:08:36pm

re: #314 Floridagirl

Why does it have to be there, right in that very spot?

Because other sections of Mahattan are covered by the Y and the JCC.

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 7:12:32pm

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

MY organized religion doesn't promote bigotry.

Then again, my religion isn't all that organized.

365 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 7:35:44pm

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

Good for it.

366 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 10:37:12pm

re: #76 jaunte

We can't elect Kennedy or we'll be ruled by the Pope!

Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion!

re: #11 webevintage

Must be a sekrit mooslim conspiracy involving the White House to keep God-Fearing-Heart-Land-Real-American-Patriots from hearing the wisdom of Greet Wilders.

Hey, I live in the "Heart-Land" and I resent that! (Not really, but that is stereotyping a lot of people. Not everyone between the Appalachians and the Sierras is a drooling fascist idiot, only a large percentage.)

re: #61 jamesfirecat

Ne

//New York is rooted in tollerance? I thought it was rooted in dispising everyone equally...

True New Yorkers treat everyone equally. Like sh**.

367 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 11:06:35pm

re: #116 Charles

Great, but where the hell is that from?

re: #154 CarleeCork

You think Pammy's faithful followers will see the irony?

Pammy's faithful followers wouldn't know the difference between irony, ironing, and Iron Maiden.

re: #229 ProLifeLiberal

Unfortunately, Palin is hideous inside, and holds no attractiveness as a result. A woman's heart and mind must be as beautiful, if not more than, her exterior.

Hoo boy, I hope that wasn't offensive to anyone.

I don't think that's offensive at all. It's the truth.

368 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 11:11:28pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

Well, at least we have you here, WUB. It's always fun to watch you torment the trolls before we grill 'em.

That's not tormenting, it's marinating.re: #254 Jadespring

I'm making a peanut sauce marinade for dinner.

I'll put some aside if anyone want some for the troll.

That's a great offer, but I'm quite allergic to peanuts. But go ahead, I'll pass on the troll this time and leave more for everyone else. There will always be more later.
re: #271 Lidane

I had a bumper sticker on one of my old cars and came out to angry notes left under my wiper blades telling me I was going to burn in hell for being a terrorist-loving liberal, and that they were praying for me. It scared me.

I haven't done anything since. When I get my next car, the most I'll ever put on it is one of those metal car emblems for my university. Anything more than that is just asking for trouble in this state.

I had a "W" sticker on my old car (not even my sticker, it was on the car and I never removed it) and the car got keyed two years running at the local community theater festival. OTOH, if I'd had a Kerry sticker, it would have been vandalized at home.

My next car is going to have a blank bumper sticker. Figure it out for yourselves, a**holes who overreact to a freaking bumper sticker!

369 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Sep 11, 2010 11:16:15pm

re: #325 WindUpBird

I'm sure the jewish people here will be pleased to hear from Ojoe that their religion promotes bigotry

Most of our bigotry is directed at our fellow Jews. That's one reason why we've been easy to pick on historically, at least until Israel was founded and showed that Jews with guns can be tough MFs.re: #326 Floridagirl

Gosh, Frank, get a grip, I've not emoted at all...I just share the same opinion that most of the country does...move it a few blocks and done...I am not advocating that they give up their property rights, nor am I saying they should be forcefully taken from them...I bet someone will cut them a good deal a few blocks away, they build their mosque, worship Allah, do their outreach, simple...

Bunk. No matter how far away it is, one of your crowd will say it's "too close".

And BTW, "the rest of the country" does not get a freaking vote on this. If it is OK with the local authorities and the local residents, it goes ahead.

370 Floridagirl  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 8:05:06am

sagehen,

>>People who lived through 9/11, who walked down the stairs, smelled the smoke, spent weeks digging in the rubble, they support it.

371 Floridagirl  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 8:09:02am

Crap, never mind...

"why not seek a world where a blatant disregard of feelings is not a prelude for exercising our freedoms?"

Faheem Younus president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, in my paper today, good stuff, could not find it online, will probably show up soon, look for it...

372 CuriousLurker  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 9:42:16am

re: #371 Floridagirl

The only reason for people to be upset about Muslims building a community center and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero is because they feel that ALL Muslims are collectively responsible for/guilty of the events of 9/11. If you can think of another reason, please do tell.

The project was announced last December and there was no outcry. It wasn't until pandering, opportunistic assholes like Pamela Geller, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, and the rest of the Bigot Brigade started up with their concern trolling and spreading of lies & innuendo that all the trouble started.

The mental turds you've dropped all over this thread stink. You were given a brain—try using it to form your own opinions and develop some critical thinking skills instead of listening to haters spew idiotic talking points, and then parroting what you heard.

373 CarleeCork  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:21:28am

re: #368 ClaudeMonet
My next car is going to have a blank bumper sticker. Figure it out for yourselves, a**holes who overreact to a freaking bumper sticker!


I am going to have a bumper sticker made, it will say:

ALICE PAUL IS MY HERO

374 Floridagirl  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:52:20am

re: #372 CuriousLurker

Feel better lurker?

I don't know Geller, Sarah Palin needs to go away, and Newt is a has-been. Since Palin and Newt are turn-offs to me, have only read their comments tangentially, and don't care what they think.

I became aware of the controversy through my bro, a 9/11 hero, a humble man who understands the constitutional rights of the mosque backers but wishes they would re-locate. I agree with him. It's our opinion.

Have done tons of reading, both sides, it's still my opinion. Lot of people agree with me, most are not the caricatures portrayed here.

Lot of parrots in here too, from the other side of the issue. This place reeks of hostility.

375 CuriousLurker  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 12:29:01pm

re: #374 Floridagirl

Karma: -142

Floridagirl

Registered since: Oct 2, 2009 at 6:09 pm
No. of comments posted: 37
No. of links posted: 0

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I do feel better. Since you brought it up, I'd feel even better if people who never contribute to this blog except to occasionally squat down and leave stinking turds here would disappear. Alas, that's not likely to happen as there seems to be an unlimited supply of trolls & socks.

Why haven't you answered any of the numerous people who asked you why the community center should be moved? Perhaps because you'd rather pretend that your "gut feeling that all involved are not acting in good faith" is based on something noble, not plain old ugly bigotry? I asked you to provide another reason—ANY reason other than the assignment of collective guilt to all Muslims for the events of 9/11—for why the center should be so upsetting that it needs be moved. Your non-answer was to deflect by talking about your humble, 9/11 hero brother.

Pray tell, would you and your brother have the same objections if it were a Jewish or Christian community center? Somehow I doubt you would, but I'll be happy to admit I misjudged you and apologize if you'd like to set the record straight by explaining why any community center would be objectionable, regardless of religion.

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, as is everyone here. That being said, I don't care if a "lot of people" agree with you. A hundred years ago a "lot of people" agreed that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. Fifty years ago a "lot of people" agreed that civil rights were a bad idea. Today a "lot of people" agree that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. Being in the majority doesn't make one right.

If you don't want to be treated like a caricature, then stop acting like one. If you think we're just a hostile bunch of parrots, then maybe you ought to flounce on out of here lest you end up covered in beak marks & bird dung.

376 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 12, 2010 4:02:22pm

re: #374 Floridagirl

Feel better lurker?

I don't know Geller, Sarah Palin needs to go away, and Newt is a has-been. Since Palin and Newt are turn-offs to me, have only read their comments tangentially, and don't care what they think.

I became aware of the controversy through my bro, a 9/11 hero, a humble man who understands the constitutional rights of the mosque backers but wishes they would re-locate. I agree with him. It's our opinion.

Have done tons of reading, both sides, it's still my opinion. Lot of people agree with me, most are not the caricatures portrayed here.

Lot of parrots in here too, from the other side of the issue. This place reeks of hostility.

If all you're going to do here on LGF is necro this dead thread then we don't especially need your services.

If you want to join in and discuss various issues on a forward going basis beyond simply Mosque or no Mosque then you might actually make some friends, we have both liberals and conservatives here after all....


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