Well, that didn’t take long. After calling her a lunatic with serious ethical problems who can’t possibly win, Karl Rove now genuflects to the mighty anti-wanking power of Christine O’Donnell.
Pathetic beyond belief.
2 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:09:43am |
Keep that in mind. Maybe the Tea Party has more influence than some give credit for. Interesting…
| 3 |
prairiefire Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:10:04am |
Yes, it is pathetic. And there are millions of squishy Republicans who will vote for this sort of flawed candidate because “we need the base.”
| 4 |
Gus Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:11:24am |
Karl Rove, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated! — Locutus Limbaugh, Galactic Leader of the GOP Borg Collective
| 5 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:11:40am |
re: #3 prairiefire
Yes, it is pathetic. And there are millions of squishy Republicans who will vote for this sort of flawed candidate because “we need the base.”
FYI… an opinion on that concept.
[Link: www.denverpost.com…]
| 6 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:12:56am |
So we have it wrong. Part of the media is not in the GOP’s pocket. The GOP is in the pocket of part of the media.
/
| 7 |
Gus Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:14:36am |
re: #6 oaktree
So we have it wrong. Part of the media is not in the GOP’s pocket. The GOP is in the pocket of part of the media.
/
GOP Fox News
| 8 |
lawhawk Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:14:37am |
It’s a sad day when the voice of reason for the GOP is ostensibly Pothole Al D’Amato.
| 9 |
middy Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:16:20am |
Appeasing the radical base at the expense of alienating moderates and swing voters… great strategy Karl!
| 10 |
prairiefire Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:16:31am |
re: #5 Walter L. Newton
FYI… an opinion on that concept.
[Link: www.denverpost.com…]
That’s a good read. In my opinion, my party does trump the individual person as I am a partisan Democrat and I believe my party is better that the Republican party.
I currently am not faced with the decision of “purifying” my party through this primary season.
| 11 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:16:39am |
re: #2 Walter L. Newton
Conservatives, comprising more of the less apathetic age brackets than liberals, are obviously more active in politics anyway.
| 12 |
elizajane Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:17:20am |
On the day the McCain campaign chose Sarah Palin, they opened the door for candidates like O’Donnell.
Palin made O’Donnell inevitable, not by endorsing her, but by making somebody like her legitimate. The establishment thought they could “play” SP and are ending up being played by her and her ilk.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:18:07am |
re: #5 Walter L. Newton
“Party trumps person?” Is that supposed to be a smart analysis?
What about when the party is completely taken over by extremists and crazy persons? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even sanity?
No, thanks.
| 15 |
sagehen Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:20:28am |
MSNBC’s been running another just-dug-up bit of tape of Ms O’Donnell on “Politically Incorrect” from about a dozen years ago.
She said she’d never lie. Ever. About anything. One of the other guests said “what if it’s world war 2, and the Nazis come to your door and ask if you’re hiding Jews in the house and you do have some in your attic. You’d have to lie then, wouldn’t you?”
“No. I wouldn’t lie. It’s always wrong to lie. I’d tell the truth, and just trust in God to take care of the situation.”
This from a woman who lied about where she went to college, when she graduated college, how she earns a living, whether her house was foreclosed….
| 16 |
stevemcg Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:21:38am |
In 2000, 02 and 04, the GOP successfully managed to leverage their 33% base into a majority coalition using fear and wedge issues. We’ve seen the wedge issues weaken, but fear still works. But how did stupidity become effective? It’s one thing to mock the right wing base because they’ve been a joke for years, but if you look at polls independents are still eating that shit up.
| 17 |
Gus Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:22:57am |
re: #13 Charles
“Party trumps person?” Is that supposed to be a smart analysis?
What about when the party is completely taken over by extremists and crazy persons? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even sanity?
No, thanks.
Rosen is trying to rally Colorado Republicans to vote for Tom Tancredo now that Don Maes is almost sunk. Clearly he is a rather biased ideologue which is illustrated in this excerpt:
The Republican coalition is an alliance of conservatives, middle- and upper-income taxpayers (but not leftist Hollywood millionaires and George Soros), individualists who prefer limited government, those who are pro-market and pro-business, believers in American exceptionalism and a strong national defense, social-issues conservatives and supporters of traditional American values.
But on Democrats he says:
The Democratic coalition includes guilt-ridden liberals, collectivists, labor unions, government workers, leftist academics, plaintiffs-lawyers, lower- and middle-income net tax-receivers, identity-politics minorities, feminists, gays, enviros, nannyists, and activists for assorted anti-gun, anti-capitalist, anti-business, anti-military and world-government causes.
So according to Rosen Republicans are nothing but rainbows and sunshine while the Democrats are pure evil.
| 18 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:23:30am |
The Master has become the student. Palpatine has fallen to Vader, though not necessarily like it happened in the movies.
| 20 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:24:49am |
re: #17 Gus 802
Well duh, we want to force gay marriages and once your gay married we’ll force you to have an abortion to boot!
//
| 21 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:25:25am |
re: #19 lawhawk
never saw that before. That’s freakin awesome.
| 22 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:25:29am |
re: #17 Gus 802
Rosen’s analysis skips over ‘individualists who prefer limited government’ except when they want to use it to control other people’s ‘social issues.’
Which is the elephant in the bedroom.
| 23 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:25:38am |
re: #16 stevemcg
In 2000, 02 and 04, the GOP successfully managed to leverage their 33% base into a majority coalition using fear and wedge issues. We’ve seen the wedge issues weaken, but fear still works. But how did stupidity become effective? It’s one thing to mock the right wing base because they’ve been a joke for years, but if you look at polls independents are still eating that shit up.
Keep telling the same lie and people will eventually believe it.
| 24 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:26:19am |
| 25 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:26:27am |
Gee, what a surprise.
I don’t want to hear a single word about this guy being a strategic genius anymore. He’s just another Limbaugh ass-kisser like the rest of them. Pathetic.
| 26 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:26:28am |
re: #13 Charles
“Party trumps person?” Is that supposed to be a smart analysis?
What about when the party is completely taken over by extremists and crazy persons? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even sanity?
No, thanks.
Besides, what’s the “party” if not the sum of its “persons”?
| 27 |
Four More Tears Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:26:40am |
| 28 |
prairiefire Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:27:07am |
One of the comment posted to the Rosen article is: “Lets just call it like it is Tea Party vs Communists.”
The Tea Party Republicans really believe that.
| 29 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:27:14am |
re: #22 jaunte
Rosen’s analysis skips over ‘individualists who prefer limited government’ except when they want to use it to control other people’s ‘social issues.’
Which is the elephant in the bedroom.
Hence, the difference between libertarianism (lowercase ‘l’) and conservatism.
| 30 |
Gus Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:27:49am |
re: #20 Dreggas
Well duh, we want to force gay marriages and once your gay married we’ll force you to have an abortion to boot!
//
Yeah, those two paragraphs make it clearly obvious. Mike Rosen: obvious ideologue is obvious. I love the way he added “net tax-receivers” to “lower- and middle-income”. It’s not just lower and middle income citizens it’s lower and middle income citizen that “take your tax dollars people!!11ty.” He won’t get any converts with this screed as the comments at the Denver Post illustrate.
| 31 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:28:57am |
re: #30 Gus 802
“net tax-receivers”
What does he have against corporate corn farmers?
| 33 |
gehazi Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:30:35am |
re: #31 jaunte
“net tax-receivers”
What does he have against corporate corn farmers?
No, see he only has a problem with low/middle income net tax-receivers, not upper income net tax-receivers.
| 34 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:31:39am |
re: #31 jaunte
and red state welfare for that matter.
| 35 |
SteveMcG Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:33:37am |
re: #30 Gus 802
I have made the argument elsewhere that a lot of our government’s spending goes towards subsidizing cheap labor. A lot of financial assistance goes to working families. While they may fit the label of tax receivers, they also have a role that offsets their dependence on “handouts”.
| 36 |
Gus Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:33:54am |
If party trumps the person the individual what happens with John Galt? Guess that sort of defeats the purpose of claiming to be a Randian Objectivist no.
/
| 37 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:34:18am |
re: #13 Charles
“Party trumps person?” Is that supposed to be a smart analysis?
What about when the party is completely taken over by extremists and crazy persons? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even sanity?
No, thanks.
I offered it as a point of view, I’ve always been a person not party voter, actually an issue voter, not party or person, but there is other points of view, including party trumps person.
If you had the same situation with a liberal candidate as the conservatives have with O’Donnell, would you vote for a moderate conservative as an alternative?
Or would you vote party?
| 38 |
lawhawk Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:34:41am |
CBS/NYT Poll finds most Americans aren’t enthralled with Sarah Palin or the Tea Party movement.
Just 21% of those asked have a favorable view of Palin, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll, which also found that 19% support the Tea Party.Despite drawing large, raucous crowds wherever she speaks, the number of voters who view Palin unfavorably rose six points since August to 46%.
Meanwhile, 33% say they are undecided on Palin or don’t know enough about her positions.
One thing that people should bear in mind with the primary elections is that only a fraction of those eligible to vote actually do so - a fraction of the number that typically votes in the general election. GOTV matters in the primaries, and the tea party candidates had a more enthused and raucous backing, so they did proportionally better than those who lacked the tea party moniker.
The poll seems to bear this out.
| 39 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:36:10am |
re: #37 Walter L. Newton
I offered it as a point of view, I’ve always been a person not party voter, actually an issue voter, not party or person, but there is other points of view, including party trumps person.
If you had the same situation with a liberal candidate as the conservatives have with O’Donnell, would you vote for a moderate conservative as an alternative?
Or would you vote party?
For a matter of fact, I could just put this question out in general… if faced with a similar situation as the O’Donnell mess, would you insist on voting party, or find another person, even if they we not of your political persuasion?
| 40 |
SteveMcG Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:37:51am |
re: #39 Walter L. Newton
Tough one with a two party system. Depends on the other candidate. I would take the lesser of two evils.
| 41 |
gehazi Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:37:55am |
re: #37 Walter L. Newton
I offered it as a point of view, I’ve always been a person not party voter, actually an issue voter, not party or person, but there is other points of view, including party trumps person.
If you had the same situation with a liberal candidate as the conservatives have with O’Donnell, would you vote for a moderate conservative as an alternative?
Or would you vote party?
The question is…how crazy does a left-winger have to get to form O’Donnell’s left-wing counterpart? If you define her counterpart as truther/pro-Hamas, then I’d sure as hell vote for anyone other than them.
And to clarify: you’re asking about the general election as it stands, not the primary campaign, right?
| 42 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:41:20am |
re: #41 gehazi
The question is…how crazy does a left-winger have to get to form O’Donnell’s left-wing counterpart? If you define her counterpart as truther/pro-Hamas, then I’d sure as hell vote for anyone other than them.
And to clarify: you’re asking about the general election as it stands, not the primary campaign, right?
I’m asking any election, any situation that warrants you thinking twice about the person that is running under your party banner.
| 43 |
nines09 Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:41:53am |
Now the GOP is really going off the deep end. They now admit that they have no compass, no answers and no idea what the fuck is going on. Vote the GOP party line and you get a lot more than you bargained for.
| 44 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:42:48am |
re: #40 SteveMcG
Tough one with a two party system. Depends on the other candidate. I would take the lesser of two evils.
Even if that meant a win for the other party would put give that other party the balance of power?
| 45 |
gehazi Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:44:23am |
re: #42 Walter L. Newton
First of all, I don’t have a party, so I don’t have that dilemma exactly. I don’t vote for candidates just because of the letter next to their name. Even if there were a party I favored, I would be sure to know something about the candidates listed. Bad crazies or bad crazy-enablers will never get my votes. If that means going third party, so be it.
| 46 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:46:46am |
re: #37 Walter L. Newton
If you had the same situation with a liberal candidate as the conservatives have with O’Donnell, would you vote for a moderate conservative as an alternative?
If there was a liberal version of O’Donnell running in a race here in Texas, I sure as hell wouldn’t vote for them at all. I’d find a moderate/conservative Democrat to vote for. If that’s not an option, I’ll just leave that part on the ballot blank.
| 47 |
SteveMcG Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:51:26am |
re: #46 Lidane
If it was just one letie nut, I would do it. I don’t see the leftie wingnuts taking power anytime soon.
| 48 |
gehazi Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:53:01am |
re: #44 Walter L. Newton
Ultimately the idea of party over people is just foolish from a logical perspective. If I keep voting for my party even when I despise the people I’m voting for, it won’t take long before my party is mostly comprised of people I despise and have nothing in common with.
Huh, that sounds familiar somehow.
| 49 |
aagcobb Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:55:22am |
That was predictable. It now seems likely that Palin will be the 2012 GOP Presidential nominee-noone in the GOP will dare criticize her for fear of the wrath of the teabaggers.
| 50 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:55:41am |
You know I used to be able to at least respect the GOP as a group of evil overlords manipulating the lower class to further their own ends.
But now this… this is just like watching a blind beast twist about in pain smashing anything it can reach.
FIRE BAD!
TAX CUTS GOOD!
What does it say when Dick Cheney is the last Republican I respect?
| 51 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Sep 16, 2010 10:02:50am |
re: #48 gehazi
Ultimately the idea of party over people is just foolish from a logical perspective. If I keep voting for my party even when I despise the people I’m voting for, it won’t take long before my party is mostly comprised of people I despise and have nothing in common with.
Huh, that sounds familiar somehow.
Thank you for not answering my question. Never mind.
| 53 |
ClaudeMonet Thu, Sep 16, 2010 11:20:33am |
I retract all the positive or semi-positive things I said about Rove before.
I have little love for or even attraction to the Democrats, but the Republicans leave me with little choice in the matter. Vote D, vote non-competitive parties, or don’t vote at all.
Question—If you’re a Democratic candidate, which strategy do you use?—
a) Run on YOUR beliefs and plans
b) Run as the national party says will work
c) Run against your opponent’s Teh Stupid
d) Run against a montage of national Republicans Teh Stupid
| 54 |
ClaudeMonet Thu, Sep 16, 2010 11:21:55am |
re: #17 Gus 802
Rosen is trying to rally Colorado Republicans to vote for Tom Tancredo now that Don Maes is almost sunk. Clearly he is a rather biased ideologue which is illustrated in this excerpt:
But on Democrats he says:
So according to Rosen Republicans are nothing but rainbows and sunshine while the Democrats are pure evil.
Sounds vaguely familiar, like a complete opposite of what we were hearing from most in the media before the 2008 election.
And both are wrong.
| 55 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Sep 16, 2010 11:39:53am |
re: #15 sagehen
MSNBC’s been running another just-dug-up bit of tape of Ms O’Donnell on “Politically Incorrect” from about a dozen years ago.
She said she’d never lie. Ever. About anything. One of the other guests said “what if it’s world war 2, and the Nazis come to your door and ask if you’re hiding Jews in the house and you do have some in your attic. You’d have to lie then, wouldn’t you?”
“No. I wouldn’t lie. It’s always wrong to lie. I’d tell the truth, and just trust in God to take care of the situation.”
.
Well, the God she speaks of completely abandoned the Jews. She’s one confused individual.
| 56 |
harlequinade Thu, Sep 16, 2010 12:14:12pm |
re: #42 Walter L. Newton
I’m asking any election, any situation that warrants you thinking twice about the person that is running under your party banner.
I’ll answer that one. In the UK I voted Lib Dem because I was ashamed of the path the Labour Party took just before the election with their digital rights act.
The joke, alas, was on me - as it let the tories in. That said - I’d never vote Lib/Dem again because of that act.
And now - as an extension - I think that this is going to cause a split in your electorate and will, potentially, see the end of your two party system. With the GOP becoming “Rabid” you’re going to find a lot of old republicans not wanting to vote for the Democratic Party.
A clever, centrist party with an Obama like leader at the helm could also see a split in the left vote.
I think the next 2 election cycles are going to be very interesting in the US.
Also - if the Tea Party do sweep to power in a right wing coalition with the GOP, I pity the state of the US. No matter what you think about the left - rolling back science will cripple the US for years. Teaching kids to be stupid and afraid is not the way to go.
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Sep 16, 2010 1:37:33pm |
I just cannot understand these people, I cannot get their need to all fall in line so completely and so obsequiously
You’d think Rove would have some room to just be the opposition on someone so completely radical and full of nonsense as O’Donnell, but I guess not
These guys just cower before Rush, like their balls have shrunk to marbles, guys that were in the administration shrink like mice before a RADIO JOCK.
SLAY THE UNBELIEVER!
THE FAT DRUG ADDICT HAS SPOKEN!
HE BLUBBERS HIS ORDERS FROM BEHIND HIS COPIOUS GIRTH AND HIS GOLDEN TRANSDUCER!
HIS GLORIOUS CASTLE FROM WHICH HE ISSUES HIS EDICTS, IT HERALDS THE DAWN OF A NEW AGE!
ALL HAIL THE CORPULENT BROADCASTER! WE ARE YOUR HUMBLE LICKSPITTLES! WE ARE YOUR GROVELING BOOTLICKS!
| 59 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Sep 16, 2010 1:38:11pm |
re: #48 gehazi
Ultimately the idea of party over people is just foolish from a logical perspective. If I keep voting for my party even when I despise the people I’m voting for, it won’t take long before my party is mostly comprised of people I despise and have nothing in common with.
Huh, that sounds familiar somehow.
Yes.
| 60 |
Petero1818 Thu, Sep 16, 2010 2:00:04pm |
re: #13 Charles
“Party trumps person?” Is that supposed to be a smart analysis?
What about when the party is completely taken over by extremists and crazy persons? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even sanity?
No, thanks.
And a Teabagger would say…
What about when the party is completely taken over by career politicians and big spenders? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even religion?
Not to say I agree with them, but that is precisely what they are doing. And if they are unable to change their party from the inside they will form a third party.
| 61 |
Tigger2 Thu, Sep 16, 2010 2:13:59pm |
You can now say goodbye the the Republican party as we have known it in years past.
| 62 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Sep 16, 2010 3:19:08pm |
re: #60 Petero1818
And a Teabagger would say…
What about when the party is completely taken over by career politicians and big spenders? We’re supposed to just hold our noses and vote for the lunatics, out of some misguided loyalty to a party that has long since abandoned principles, ethics, and even religion?
Not to say I agree with them, but that is precisely what they are doing. And if they are unable to change their party from the inside they will form a third party.
I really REALLY hope they form a third party, take all the wackos out of the Republican party, then the Republican party will be forced to become more progressive to carve into some Dem strongholds, make up for the loss of their revolting base, then the country makes more sense!
Everyone wins, and we get a third party full of racists and uneducated venom-spitting housewives to make fun of
| 63 |
JoyousMN Thu, Sep 16, 2010 6:55:53pm |
re: #42 Walter L. Newton
I’m asking any election, any situation that warrants you thinking twice about the person that is running under your party banner.
This was a while back…ok…a long while back. But anyway.
The MN republicans nominated a crazy right winger instead of a the nice sensible moderate, Arne Carlson. The crazy right winger imploded before the election and the R’s were left with only the moderate (think old-old school moderate republican). The Dems nominated a loon. Here’s the basic facts from wiki:
Carlson’s election followed a scandal arising after the party’s endorsed candidate, businessman Jon Grunseth, was accused of sexual improprieties that occurred several years prior with two then-underage girls. The ensuing “firestorm” caused Grunseth to withdraw from the race. Carlson had initially sought the party’s nomination, which the more conservative Grunseth won. After failing to secure the nomination, Carlson and his running mate, Joanell Dyrstad launched a write-in campaign. After Grunseth’s campaign disintegrated, Carlson became the party’s candidate. Generally considered a moderate, he presented himself as a less polarizing leader than the incumbent governor, Rudy Perpich. He managed to win the general election by 3 percentage points.
I voted for Carlson. Last Republican I ever voted for…because they got too crazy.
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