The Palin Abortion Standard Gains GOP Acceptance

John Avlon has a piece on the growing acceptance in the GOP of the cruelest and most extreme positions on abortion: The Palin abortion standard makes GOP inroads.

Call it the Palin Standard, the new normal creeping into Republican abortion politics—opposition even in cases of rape and incest.�When Sarah Palin was plucked from obscurity two years ago to become the VP nominee, McCain’s senior policy aides did not know that she held this extreme position, which is shared by only 15 percent of the population, according to a Wall Street Journal/NBC poll.

Now at least six Tea Party-backed statewide GOP candidates—Nevada’s Sharron Angle, Delaware’s Christine O’Donnell, Colorado’s Ken Buck, Kentucky’s Rand Paul, Alaska’s Joe Miller, and New York’s Carl Paladino—back this absolutist stand.

That’s twice the number of GOP Senate candidates who are broadly pro-choice this year—Illinois’ Mark Kirk, Connecticut’s Linda McMahon, and Oregon’s James Huffman.� And it’s telling that Mike Castle and Lisa Murkowski—two centrist GOP candidates who were RINO-hunted in closed primaries—were both pro-choice.

It’s worth pointing out the obvious hypocrisy given the Tea Party’s views of government—it’s hard to imagine a more direct imposition on individual freedom than for the state to force a girl to carry her rapist’s baby for nine months.� It’s even crueler if that baby is her father’s child.

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131 comments
1 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:06:09pm

These people need to look up the terms anencephaly and fistula.

I'd provide links, but this is lunchtime.

2 garhighway  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:06:31pm

Imagine the most conservative reasonable position you can take on any issue. Then take 10 steps to the right. Then you are where the GOP has gone.

3 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:11:11pm

I'm not surprised. The Tea Party candidates are revolutionaries. That is revolutionaries in the jacobin/Bolshevik mold.

They know the truth, they are going to implement it and they are going to do anything to bring their glorious vision to pass.

4 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:12:22pm

You'd think that, knowing only 15% of the population shares this absolutist view, they would avoid pushing it in their campaigns.

It's bound to be a loser for them at the polls. (one can only hope)

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:12:56pm

Afternoon Honcos. Can't stay long.

6 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:13:11pm

Repeated for truth in advertising:

It’s worth pointing out the obvious hypocrisy given the Tea Party’s views of government—it’s hard to imagine a more direct imposition on individual freedom than for the state to force a girl to carry her rapist’s baby for nine months. It’s even crueler if that baby is her father’s child.
7 SteelGHAZI  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:13:31pm

re: #2 garhighway

Imagine the most conservative reasonable position you can take on any issue. Then take 100000 steps to the right, straight off that cliff there. Then you are where the GOP has gone.

FTFY

8 garhighway  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:16:23pm

re: #4 Yashmak

You'd think that, knowing only 15% of the population shares this absolutist view, they would avoid pushing it in their campaigns.

It's bound to be a loser for them at the polls. (one can only hope)

I think that there are two things happening here:

1> They (the tea party types) stay inside their echo chamber, so they really don't get the view of the reasonable middle on stuff like this, and
2> They are counting on unhappiness about the economy to blind a lot of voters to the crazy shit they believe in.

Thus they try hard to avoid exposure before real journalists who would ask hard questions that might focus voters on the crazy shit. Fox won't do that. So they will confine themselves to Fox and to local newsies who toss softballs for a living, and look to run out the clock.

9 garhighway  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:17:02pm

re: #7 SteelPH

FTFY

I was thinking pretty big steps, if that helps.

10 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:18:36pm

My boss is going off on politics. I fuck with him just for sport. Heh.

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:22:02pm

Gotta go make the D'ohnuts. BBl

12 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:23:22pm

Don't forget that the Religions Right was ready to abandon McCain and field their own candidate over his stance on abortion and other social/moral issues.

Palin was the price he paid for his support.

And even though they lost, the Religious Right has not given up, instead they have now taken over the entire GOP and are going to force their agenda on it.

13 HappyBenghazi  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:23:49pm

Palin standard is a good name for this. Seriously, I can understand opposition to abortion but in all cases is awfully extreme to put it kindly. It's not just that they are extremely anti abortion that bothers me. It's the mindset. Sharron Angle was once quoted that she'd tell a teen who was raped that "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonaide." That she'd use a cliche in something so important is mindblowing to me.

14 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:25:52pm

As I said in another thread, but which bears repeating...the GOP got in bed with the Religious Right back during the Reagan Era, now they're knocked up with the socon baby, with no way to get either a divorce or an abortion.

15 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:26:46pm

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Palin standard is a good name for this. Seriously, I can understand opposition to abortion but in all cases is awfully extreme to put it kindly.

I have theorized that simplifying it to this degree is the only way folks like her can wrap their minds around complex issues.

16 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:26:59pm

re: #14 PT Barnum

As I said in another thread, but which bears repeating...the GOP got in bed with the Religious Right back during the Reagan Era, now they're knocked up with the socon baby, with no way to get either a divorce or an abortion.

the best they can hope for is an electoral intervention in the form of a landslide defeat with support for batshit crazy positions being the clear reason for it.

17 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:27:17pm

The only possible reason to hold this position is a religious one.

It is an unscientific, even anti-scientific position.

The GOP position on abortion as a whole is really not very far from this.

Ban abortion with Constitutional amendment

We say the unborn child has a fundamental right to life. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect the sanctity of innocent human life.

I don't see how a 'fundamental right to life' for an embryo would allow exceptions for incest or rape.

This is the mainstream GOP position.


Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention Aug 12, 2000

18 S'latch  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:28:00pm

It is McCain's fault.

(See? You didn't know what they meant when they told you McCain would ruin the Republican Party.)

19 HappyBenghazi  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:28:36pm

re: #15 Yashmak

I have theorized that simplifying it to this degree is the only way folks like her can wrap their minds around complex issues.

I think you're right. It just amazed me that she'd be that big of a jerk to use a cliche to tell a child in a tough situation.

20 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:28:55pm

re: #17 Obdicut

Does that mean then that every embryo must be brought to term? That's the logical extension of that position. As there are 400000 embryos in storage right now, that's a lot of extra mouths to feed.

21 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:29:34pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

I think you're right. It just amazed me that she'd be that big of a jerk to use a cliche to tell a child in a tough situation.

I would call that insensitivity and lack of appropriateness/applicability additional evidence supporting my theory :)

22 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:30:33pm

re: #20 PT Barnum

That's the logical outcome of it.

However, tellingly, there are almost no anti-abortion advocates who give a shit about fertility clinics.

Because it is not really about abortion, for them, it is about making women feel shame about sexuality.

23 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:30:43pm

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Sharron Angle was once quoted that she'd tell a teen who was raped that "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonaide." That she'd use a cliche in something so important is mindblowing to me.

... while simultaneously removing any form of social assistance whatsoever.

24 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:32:13pm

re: #23 negativ

... while simultaneously removing any form of social assistance whatsoever.

but see getting raped or molested only happens to other people.

25 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:33:34pm

re: #1 goddamnedfrank

These people need to look up the terms anencephaly and fistula.

I'd provide links, but this is lunchtime.

My stomach thanks you...

All women should be free to make her own reproductive choices, but I find it curious that Republicans didn't blink an eye when Bristol got knocked up in high school by her boyfriend who apparently spent the night fairly often. In fact, they made excuses why it was so lovely! Ahh the family values candidate. (My mother would have kicked my ass.)

Bristol and Levi have the support AND MONEY to have their child, but many young women aren't so lucky. Statistics say they won't marry or if they do, they have the highest rate of divorce of all couples.

Did you know divorce and pregnancy among teens is higher amongst conservatives families than liberal families?* Not surprising to me. Young conservative women have one choice. Have the baby and marry the asshole.

[Link: www.divorce360.com...]

*[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

[Link: www.amplifyyourvoice.org...]

[Link: family.jrank.org...]

26 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:34:22pm

re: #17 Obdicut

The only possible reason to hold this position is a religious one.

It is an unscientific, even anti-scientific position.

The GOP position on abortion as a whole is really not very far from this.

I don't see how a 'fundamental right to life' for an embryo would allow exceptions for incest or rape.

This is the mainstream GOP position.

Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention Aug 12, 2000

They should have come up with a snazzy-sounding name for their new unborn constituents, such as Spermatozoac-Americans, Embryonic-Americans, or Blastocyst-izens.

27 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:34:40pm

Heh. Here's some nice GOP hypocrisy:

This is the updated 2004 "ban all abortion" plank of the GOP:

We must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the 14th Amendment's protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions.

So, still an absolute statement that every embryo gets 14th amendment rights. I still do not see why there could be, if this amendment passed, an exception for rape or incest.

We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption.

Except the gay ones, of course. What lying assholes.

28 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:34:58pm

re: #22 Obdicut


Because it is not really about abortion, for them, it is about making women feel shame about sexuality.

This doesn't seem far off base to me, and there's a disturbing angle to it. They apply this 'standard' even in the case of incest/rape. . .cases where the female victims thereafter almost always feel shame about sexuality. . .then to compound it by making them feel additional shame in this manner. . . it makes me feel vaguely sick.

29 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:35:13pm

re: #24 PT Barnum

but see getting raped or molested only happens to other people.

It's "God's will" according to people like Angle. That's disgusting.

30 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:35:39pm

re: #25 marjoriemoon

Hi Marj!

31 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:36:33pm

The Palin Abortion Standard Gains GOP Acceptance


As it should. That is what they believe.

32 Gus  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:36:48pm

So much for going John Jane Galt.

Now at least six Tea Party-backed statewide GOP candidates—Nevada’s Sharron Angle, Delaware’s Christine O’Donnell, Colorado’s Ken Buck, Kentucky’s Rand Paul, Alaska’s Joe Miller, and New York’s Carl Paladino—back this absolutist stand.

Here we have a movement that claims to accept the notion of Objectivism and the works of Ayn Rand. They claim to be about liberty (read Libertarianism) and individualism yet in reality they are nothing more than a more extremist version of the religious right in America. Atlas Shrugs for whom?

One method of destroying a concept is by diluting its meaning. Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. -- Ayn Rand,

33 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:37:30pm

re: #26 negativ

They should have come up with a snazzy-sounding name for their new unborn constituents, such as Spermatozoac-Americans, Embryonic-Americans, or Blastocyst-izens.

The pre-born since we insist that all of them become the post born eventually

34 HappyBenghazi  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:37:37pm

re: #23 negativ

... while simultaneously removing any form of social assistance whatsoever.

Yep, seriously this is what pisses me off about the Republican Party. "Choose life" they say but then they scream about "handouts" and "socialism" if you suggest that we help these women and children after they're born. Shit pisses me off.

35 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:38:27pm

re: #32 Gus 802

Nice quote, that.

36 jcbeckman  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:38:31pm

So when are the moderates in the GOP going to get a clue and start a moderate party? If they really stake out moderate, middle positions, they should win elections.

37 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:39:06pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Yep, seriously this is what pisses me off about the Republican Party. "Choose life" they say but then they scream about "handouts" and "socialism" if you suggest that we help these women and children after they're born. Shit pisses me off.

After they're born they might go and vote and we all know that women and brown people weren't given those rights by the Founding Fathers for good reasons.

//

38 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:40:25pm

re: #26 negativ

Zygote-Americans.

One cell one vote!

39 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:40:47pm

What's unreported, and what must be causing some concern for the DNC is that there are people, especially in the South, who vote as a bloc for the democratic candidate without exception, and yet feel pretty much the same way re abortion as the most ardent right-to-lifers. It's pretty hard to be a single-issue voter these days.

40 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:41:19pm

re: #32 Gus 802

I was told once to vote for the "Common Good." I asked, "What's the 'common good?'" Then I was told I was being negative, selfish, and that I was going to be alone. Yeah, I was more confused if anything else.

41 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:41:40pm

re: #39 tradewind

Who are these people, Trade? Can you be more specific?

42 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:41:48pm

re: #36 jcbeckman

So when are the moderates in the GOP going to get a clue and start a moderate party? If they really stake out moderate, middle positions, they should win elections.

Political parties are a bit like heavy industry at this point. A lot of capital and resources are tied up in the infrastructure of the party. Starting from scratch will require a lot of money, and at least initially, trying to compete for campaign dollars against an entrenched machine that has zero interest in having you succeed as their competition.

43 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:42:09pm

re: #36 jcbeckman

So when are the moderates in the GOP going to get a clue and start a moderate party? If they really stake out moderate, middle positions, they should win elections.

That sort of thing doesn't happen overnight. It's easy, as demogogues on both left and right have shown, to draw people using extreme talking points. It's easy to sell fear. The extreme left and right have co-opted the two major parties, and are using the mechanisms of power possessed by those institutions to bludgeon more moderate candidates out of races.

It's harder to excite folks with a moderate position, especially when you're attacked from either side.

44 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:43:12pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Heh. Here's some nice GOP hypocrisy:

This is the updated 2004 "ban all abortion" plank of the GOP:

So, still an absolute statement that every embryo gets 14th amendment rights. I still do not see why there could be, if this amendment passed, an exception for rape or incest.

Except the gay ones, of course. What lying assholes.

And no immigrant embryos, either. Or has repealing the 14th Amendment gone out of fashion already?

45 jcbeckman  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:43:16pm

re #42:

But they're losing primaries and their jobs now. The GOP is hopelessly infected at this point. What have they got to lose?

46 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:44:42pm

re: #43 Yashmak

It's harder to excite folks with a moderate position, especially when you're attacked from either side.

On that note, are there Lizards who are going to the Rally to Restore Sanity?

47 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:44:42pm

re: #45 jcbeckman

re #42:

But they're losing primaries and their jobs now. The GOP is hopelessly infected at this point. What have they got to lose?

But watch as they turn around and try to co-opt the candidates who have won. It WILL happen. Heck, they might even be willing to throw a race or two here and there, and undermine a candidate they can't co-opt.

48 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:44:43pm

re: #41 Obdicut

Who are these people, Trade? Can you be more specific?

You know.
Them.

49 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:44:52pm

re: #41 Obdicut
Not that you're really asking for information, but sure. There are large numbers of mostly African American, mostly very religious and church-going voters who wouldn't think of voting for a Republican, and yet they also have deeply held anti-abortion views. Most of them are extremely conservative on other social issues as well. If these blocs begin to fragment, as they are occasionally showing signs of attempting to do, that's going to be a major problem for the Democrats.

50 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:45:02pm

re: #39 tradewind

Thank you for your concern.

51 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:45:25pm

re: #46 Sionainn

On that note, are there Lizards who are going to the Rally to Restore Sanity?

I so wish that I could. . .but I'm a left-coaster, and about to get married to boot.

52 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:46:09pm

re: #49 tradewind

Not that you're really asking for information, but sure. There are large numbers of mostly African American, mostly very religious and church-going voters who wouldn't think of voting for a Republican, and yet they also have deeply held anti-abortion views. Most of them are extremely conservative on other social issues as well. If these blocs begin to fragment, as they are occasionally showing signs of attempting to do, that's going to be a major problem for the Democrats.

"They" keep saying that about Catholic Hispanics, too. Ain't happening.

53 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:46:52pm

re: #51 Yashmak

I so wish that I could. . .but I'm a left-coaster, and about to get married to boot.

Your sole mate?

54 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:46:52pm

re: #51 Yashmak

I so wish that I could. . .but I'm a left-coaster, and about to get married to boot.

I'm almost a left-coaster...I'm in Las Vegas. My sweet husband wants me to go and have a great time, so I just booked my tickets yesterday.

Congrats on the marriage!

55 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:02pm

I wonder if this country will have to go backward in order to move forward.

Too many young women don't know about botched, back alley abortions or hospital wards for women that attempted self abortion.

56 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:29pm

re: #50 darthstar
You really shouldn't. My concern is that they would speed things up.
It's going to be interesting watching my local House race. There is usually no Republican opposition to speak of, it's a given that the seat will be held by a Dem. This time, there's an African American woman running as the Republican nominee, a first, against Steve Cohen. He'll still win, but there's never even been a race.

57 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:33pm

re: #54 Sionainn

I'm almost a left-coaster...I'm in Las Vegas. My sweet husband wants me to go and have a great time, so I just booked my tickets yesterday.

Congrats on the marriage!

All it'll take is one, big earthquake...

58 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:37pm

re: #30 PT Barnum

Hi Marj!

PT! What's shaking!

59 HappyBenghazi  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #46 Sionainn

On that note, are there Lizards who are going to the Rally to Restore Sanity?

Yep, should be a lot of fun.

60 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:47:58pm

re: #49 tradewind

Not that you're really asking for information, but sure. There are large numbers of mostly African American, mostly very religious and church-going voters who wouldn't think of voting for a Republican, and yet they also have deeply held anti-abortion views. Most of them are extremely conservative on other social issues as well. If these blocs begin to fragment, as they are occasionally showing signs of attempting to do, that's going to be a major problem for the Democrats.

I don't think that blacks will vote for the GOP in the forseeable future, given the incredible racism they've displayed during Obama's presidency. You're right that religious black Protestants tend to be socially conservative; making it all the odder that the GOP has so determinedly alienated them with its race-baiting tactics.

And thank you for backpedaling and now saying that there are just 'large numbers', rather than asserting the entirety of religious African-Americans want abortion banned. The actual statistic is about fifty-percent of black Protestants.

61 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:48:10pm

re: #55 CarleeCork

I wonder if this country will have to go backward in order to move forward.

Like how an addict has to hit bottom, I wonder about this also.

62 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:48:39pm

re: #46 Sionainn

On that note, are there Lizards who are going to the Rally to Restore Sanity?

I wish.

63 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:48:46pm

re: #49 tradewind

Oh, and why didn't you simply say that you were talking about blacks in your initial post?

64 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:48:49pm

re: #14 PT Barnum

As I said in another thread, but which bears repeating...the GOP got in bed with the Religious Right back during the Reagan Era, now they're knocked up with the socon baby, with no way to get either a divorce or an abortion.


It was more like that dashing rogue Reagan lured the Religious Right into his bed with promises of influence and power and used her (just in keeping with the metaphor). But as soon as Nancy's astrologer told her it was propitious, he tossed her aside like a summer fling.

And as Hell hath no wrath like a woman (or an ideological movement) scorned, the Religious Right then set about on a long-term campaign of insinuating its people into the upper echelons of government and politics to ensure that the next President they got into bed with was a Promise Keeper, so to speak.

65 SteelGHAZI  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:48:50pm

re: #40 Idle Drifter

That's something that has always confused me. What is the "common good" and who defines it? I never, ever got an answer

66 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:49:26pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

Yep, should be a lot of fun.

Cool! Is there a plan for everyone to meet each other?

67 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:49:27pm

re: #53 wrenchwench

Your sole mate?

Now, don't be a heel.

68 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:49:55pm

Totally OT: Anyone know if Aceofwhat? is doing okay? I haven't seen him post in quite awhile.

69 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:50:09pm

re: #20 PT Barnum

Does that mean then that every embryo must be brought to term? That's the logical extension of that position. As there are 400000 embryos in storage right now, that's a lot of extra mouths to feed.


And every one of them a potential Republican voter. They would have to be grateful for the party that is responsible for their very existence...

70 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:50:20pm

re: #67 darthstar

ankle biter. /

71 Yashmak  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:50:23pm

re: #66 Sionainn

Cool! Is there a plan for everyone to meet each other?

You all could wear some item of clothing with a lizard on it :) Just a thought.

72 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:50:23pm

re: #55 CarleeCork

I wonder if this country will have to go backward in order to move forward.

Too many young women don't know about botched, back alley abortions or hospital wards for women that attempted self abortion.

What? you don't think with the morality police will just say it's God's will that the woman died or was badly injured? If we reach that point where women are reduced to back alley abortions we're already screwed.

And to make it worse, with today's technology, you know the Religious fanatics won't use any means to keep track and tabs of people to enforce their morality on everyone else.

73 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:50:34pm

re: #64 ralphieboy
Can you imagine the outrage if Michelle Obama had an astrologer?

74 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:51:22pm

re: #68 Obdicut

Totally OT: Anyone know if Aceofwhat? is doing okay? I haven't seen him post in quite awhile.

He hasn't been around, has he? I always get a little freaked when I don't see friends. Last I asked, he said he was very busy, but that was a few weeks ago (?) I was missing Racer X last night.

75 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:51:23pm

re: #70 lawhawk

ankle biter. /

It's the lace I can do.

76 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:51:57pm

re: #73 CarleeCork

Can you imagine the outrage if Michelle Obama had an astrologer?

Ooof, what if Mahlia had gotten pregnant!

77 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:51:57pm

re: #67 darthstar

Oh boy. Now everyone's going to have to toe the line to make some shoe related puns. I don't want to put my foot in my mouth, but can't we kick this meme to the curb? I always get caught flat-footed by the outbreak of puns. I'd really rather talk about good honest people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

78 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #60 Obdicut
There's quite a difference between ' wanting something banned ' and having deep convictions against it personally. I would imagine that there are plenty Democrats in other parts of the country, in other demographic groups, who may well feel the same way. Of course, they don't really have much of a voice.... just ask Bob Casey.

79 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:52:42pm

re: #72 bloodstar

gah replace won't with will in that post. my typos are bad enough, but that was a terrible mistype. *hangs head in shame*

80 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:52:46pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Oh boy. Now everyone's going to have to toe the line to make some shoe related puns. I don't want to put my foot in my mouth, but can't we kick this meme to the curb? I always get caught flat-footed by the outbreak of puns. I'd really rather talk about good honest people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

Punzilla strikes again!

81 jaunte  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:52:50pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Are the Zapatistas here yet?

82 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:52:55pm

re: #73 CarleeCork
It's early./

83 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:53:25pm

re: #74 marjoriemoon

He hasn't been around, has he? I always get a little freaked when I don't see friends. Last I asked, he said he was very busy, but that was a few weeks ago (?) I was missing Racer X last night.

Racer's last post was...well, foreshadowing

Thanks for all the fish!

?

84 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:53:40pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

You know.
Them.

I wasn't aware that the giant ants were a major voting bloc in the United States yet. They certainly aren't influencing policy on sugar import tariffs or production of corn syrup yet.

85 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:53:59pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Oh boy. Now everyone's going to have to toe the line to make some shoe related puns. I don't want to put my foot in my mouth, but can't we kick this meme to the curb? I always get caught flat-footed by the outbreak of puns. I'd really rather talk about good honest people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

I'm so gonna kick you in the shin.
/

86 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:54:24pm

re: #46 Sionainn
Democratic campaign leaders are not thrilled with the time frame.... they want their troops out doing last-minute work, not having fun./

87 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:54:26pm

re: #71 Yashmak

You all could wear some item of clothing with a lizard on it :) Just a thought.


Not Izod alligators, I hope...

88 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:54:54pm

re: #78 tradewind

I was taking that from a Pew poll, that found that 50% of black Protestants wanted abortion made illegal.

However, they're not single-issue voters, and abortion is not a litmus test for them.

Can you explain why you didn't simply say you were talking about religious blacks in your original post? Why so carefully avoid mentioning the group you were talking about?

89 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:55:07pm

re: #73 CarleeCork

Can you imagine the outrage if Michelle Obama had an astrologer?


There would be screaming outrage if she admitted that she reads the horoscope section of the daily newspaper.

90 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:55:16pm

re: #71 Yashmak

You all could wear some item of clothing with a lizard on it :) Just a thought.

There's an idea. If this rally is going to be huge (like I'm hoping), I would think there'd need to be a meeting place.

91 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:55:22pm

re: #73 CarleeCork

Can you imagine the outrage if Michelle Obama had an astrologer?

I'll see your imagined outrage and raise you actual Right Wing outrage:

Is Barack Obama's Mother-In-Law A Black Witch?

92 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:55:58pm

re: #79 bloodstar

gah replace won't with will in that post. my typos are bad enough, but that was a terrible mistype. *hangs head in shame*

I took it as sarc.

And you're right. I was going to say something about only allowing fertile women to decide the issue, but verifying that is exactly the invasiveness it would take to enforce the laws the anti-abortion people would like to see.

93 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:56:00pm

re: #58 marjoriemoon

PT! What's shaking!

Wife has gotten the bug..we're playing on Orien server and having a good ol time.

She comes home from work around 8:30 and says "do you want to play?" and I know what she means. at 11:30 I drag my carcass off to bed. D & D is still ruining my love life. When I was in High School it kept me from having one at all and now it's serving the same purpose.

94 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:56:34pm

re: #83 Varek Raith

Racer's last post was...well, foreshadowing

?

Really? Well maybe he'll find his way back.

95 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:56:56pm

re: #93 PT Barnum

Wife has gotten the bug..we're playing on Orien server and having a good ol time.

She comes home from work around 8:30 and says "do you want to play?" and I know what she means. at 11:30 I drag my carcass off to bed. D & D is still ruining my love life. When I was in High School it kept me from having one at all and now it's serving the same purpose.

Cast Charm Person.
Problem solved.

96 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:57:04pm

re: #63 Obdicut
Really, just to satisfy you?
You'll just have to find another field to bait.

97 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:57:08pm

re: #94 marjoriemoon

Really? Well maybe he'll find his way back.

Indeed.

98 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:57:37pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Oh boy. Now everyone's going to have to toe the line to make some shoe related puns. I don't want to put my foot in my mouth, but can't we kick this meme to the curb? I always get caught flat-footed by the outbreak of puns. I'd really rather talk about good honest people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

you're sounding like a brogan record

99 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:58:20pm

re: #98 PT Barnum

you're sounding like a brogan record

That was awesome.

100 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:59:09pm

re: #86 tradewind

Democratic campaign leaders are not thrilled with the time frame... they want their troops out doing last-minute work, not having fun./

I guess that's too bad for them then.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:59:40pm

re: #96 tradewind

Well, it's definitely an odd thing about your post. You're talking about blacks, but you go out of your way to avoid saying 'black'. It's a pretty weird thing.

102 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:59:49pm

re: #99 Obdicut

That was awesome.

windsagio here? He usually pours on the hate when I commit something like that

103 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 12:59:55pm

re: #91 publicityStunted
Did you check the date on that one?
Really, after over a year, the outrage is probably over.//

104 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:00:19pm

re: #93 PT Barnum

Wife has gotten the bug..we're playing on Orien server and having a good ol time.

She comes home from work around 8:30 and says "do you want to play?" and I know what she means. at 11:30 I drag my carcass off to bed. D & D is still ruining my love life. When I was in High School it kept me from having one at all and now it's serving the same purpose.

True love is but a +2 broadsword away

105 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:00:31pm

re: #88 Obdicut

I was going to guess pregnant hispanic women who died in the desert on their way to give birth in hospital parking lots, but then realized they couldn't vote.

106 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:01:10pm

re: #104 negativ

True love is but a +2 broadsword away

[Video]

Thing is my rogue usually hangs back. I tell her it's so I can watch her behind

107 tradewind  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:01:12pm

re: #101 Obdicut
Nit picker is picking.
Knock yourself out.

108 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:02:27pm
109 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:03:34pm

re: #103 tradewind

Did you check the date on that one?
Really, after over a year, the outrage is probably over.//

And yet...
I have no doubt that you wouldn't hesitate to bring up Wright or Acorn or CodePink or...

110 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:05:10pm

re: #107 tradewind

It's really not a 'nit'. You didn't make a mistake. What I'm saying is that it looks really weird when you're referring to a group only obliquely, especially when there seems to be no reason to do so.

Then refusing to explain why you'd do something so weird is probably not the best choice, either.

There are actually quite a few groups who are more socially conservative than the Democratic norm, but still vote for Democrats preferentially over the GOP. This is generally because those groups are non-white, and the GOP has been engaging in massive amounts of race-baiting in the recent past. Hispanics, Muslims, Asian-Americans-- Bush II picked up significant numbers of these groups. That is now history, thanks to the GOP race-baiting.

So the Democrats might have 'been in trouble', if the GOP hadn't been so damn committed to race-baiting.

111 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:05:18pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

And yet...
I have no doubt that you wouldn't hesitate to bring up Wright or Acorn or CodePink or...

Hell, Sarah Palin mentioned Acorn yesterday, calling it the Democrat's tea party...and federally funded. Idiocy is a hard habit to break.

112 What, me worry?  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:06:26pm

re: #93 PT Barnum

Wife has gotten the bug..we're playing on Orien server and having a good ol time.

She comes home from work around 8:30 and says "do you want to play?" and I know what she means. at 11:30 I drag my carcass off to bed. D & D is still ruining my love life. When I was in High School it kept me from having one at all and now it's serving the same purpose.

LOL I'm glad you're making a gamer out of her!

Hubby just got a copy of Civ5, but by bedtime last night, I looked over and he was playing Farmville! Apparently they made Civ5 for casual gamers like me, kind of stripping it of its more technical aspects. It's all around the blogosphere apparently. He's off today so when I get home, I'll find out how long he stuck with it. He's very disappointed.

113 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:06:33pm

re: #111 darthstar

Hell, Sarah Palin mentioned Acorn yesterday, calling it the Democrat's tea party...and federally funded. Idiocy is a hard habit to break.

That doesn't even make sense.

114 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:07:26pm

re: #113 Sionainn

That doesn't even make sense.

Of course it doesn't make sense...Sarah wrote it.

115 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:09:40pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

LOL I'm glad you're making a gamer out of her!

Hubby just got a copy of Civ5, but by bedtime last night, I looked over and he was playing Farmville! Apparently they made Civ5 for casual gamers like me, kind of stripping it of its more technical aspects. It's all around the blogosphere apparently. He's off today so when I get home, I'll find out how long he stuck with it. He's very disappointed.

Come visit us on Orien....Guild of the Little Dog

116 darthstar  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:09:47pm

Speaking of Palin, she just retweeted this article by Michelle Malkin with "SIGH" as her comment...(she really, REALLY, hates Lisa Murkowski)

Unreal: Senate GOP decides not to strip Murkowski of seniority on Energy committee after all
Share16
posted at 3:17 pm on September 22, 2010 by Allahpundit

(no link, if you want to see it, you'll have to do it without an LGF referrer)

117 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:11:41pm

re: #116 darthstar

Speaking of Palin, she just retweeted this article by Michelle Malkin with "SIGH" as her comment...(she really, REALLY, hates Lisa Murkowski)

(no link, if you want to see it, you'll have to do it without an LGF referrer)

Michelle Malkin- Tila Tequila with fewer brains

118 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:12:17pm

re: #114 darthstar

Of course it doesn't make sense...Sarah wrote it.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking./

119 HappyBenghazi  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:12:32pm

re: #116 darthstar

Speaking of Palin, she just retweeted this article by Michelle Malkin with "SIGH" as her comment...(she really, REALLY, hates Lisa Murkowski)

(no link, if you want to see it, you'll have to do it without an LGF referrer)

Well of course she hates Murkowski, Murkowski isn't a quitter nor a moron who believes Obama has death panels set up. Murkowski to her credit called America's favorite half term governor out on that outrageous bullshit.

120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:12:56pm

re: #116 darthstar

Speaking of Palin, she just retweeted this article by Michelle Malkin with "SIGH" as her comment...(she really, REALLY, hates Lisa Murkowski)

(no link, if you want to see it, you'll have to do it without an LGF referrer)

Could be that the GOP is deciding to cover both sides. If they completely strip Murkowski of chairmanships, oppose her at the polls, and deride her to the media and then she wins why would she feel any obligation to continue to caucus with the GOP?

121 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:20:21pm

re: #116 darthstar

Speaking of Palin, she just retweeted this article by Michelle Malkin with "SIGH" as her comment...(she really, REALLY, hates Lisa Murkowski)

(no link, if you want to see it, you'll have to do it without an LGF referrer)

Heres the Malkin post with the SIGH, atleast.
[Link: twitter.com...]

SIGH

122 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:24:27pm

re: #43 Yashmak

That sort of thing doesn't happen overnight. It's easy, as demogogues on both left and right have shown, to draw people using extreme talking points. It's easy to sell fear. The extreme left and right have co-opted the two major parties, and are using the mechanisms of power possessed by those institutions to bludgeon more moderate candidates out of races.

It's harder to excite folks with a moderate position, especially when you're attacked from either side.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Today's Democratic Party is considerably to the right of where it was on most issues 20 (and certainly 40) years ago. Gay rights is an exception, but it's one of the few. The left - even the moderate, social democratic left - in America is virtually powerless; it has very little influence on the Democratic Party. The same can't be said about the extreme right and the Republicans.

123 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:26:32pm

re: #46 Sionainn

On that note, are there Lizards who are going to the Rally to Restore Sanity?

Perhaps 2 from Lower Alabama.

124 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:29:35pm

re: #68 Obdicut

Totally OT: Anyone know if Aceofwhat? is doing okay? I haven't seen him post in quite awhile.

Been away for much of the month, but I've missed him since returning, as well as Mad Al. (He's in the DC zone, and would be a natural for the sanity march.)

125 Ericus58  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:32:35pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

LOL I'm glad you're making a gamer out of her!

Hubby just got a copy of Civ5, but by bedtime last night, I looked over and he was playing Farmville! Apparently they made Civ5 for casual gamers like me, kind of stripping it of its more technical aspects. It's all around the blogosphere apparently. He's off today so when I get home, I'll find out how long he stuck with it. He's very disappointed.

Kabummer - I was thinking about picking it up as a matter of fact. Had re-installed CIV IV to kinda practice....

126 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:33:18pm

One reason some GOP candidates can maybe get away with taking such a reprehensible position is that to refute the position, one must say some politically incorrect things. There really is such a thing as life unworthy of life. The perfect example of this would be an anencephalic fetus: body, with working organs, skull, small, and brain stem, regulating heartbeat and whatnot. That's it. No cerebral cortex.

Biologically, this is just a failed pregnancy. The fetus is not yet, and never will be, a child. It may have eyes, but it can never see, for there is no brain with the wiring for vision. It may have ears, but it can never hear, for the same reason. It has limbs, but it cannot move them. The condition is absolutely incurable, and fatal in short order upon birth.

There is no upside to such a pregnancy, while all the usual costs are incurred. These are far from trivial. Bringing a pregnancy to term is hard work, and to some extent, dangerous. Abortion is fully warranted and if there are any particular risks to the pregnancy, it may be necessary to the health or even the life of the pregnant woman.

For less extreme situations, there are still good reasons to abort. If the woman doesn't care to bear her rapist's child, why should she? Is it in society's interest that rapists can conscript their victims, and then society generally. into the work of bearing and raising offspring? No. Heredity is a factor in human behavior, and the children of ruthless or insane [or both] criminals are not good bets. This is not to say that the pregnant woman should be forced to have an abortion because we don't want her to saddle us with such a child; it's her call. But if she wants an abortion, we in the wider society can only heave a sigh of relief.

With abortion generally, it's kind of the other way around. Again, it's her call. But mostly, our sighs will be sighs of regret. The child would have been welcome, if she had wished to bring it into the world.

127 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 1:40:30pm

re: #112 marjoriemoon

LOL I'm glad you're making a gamer out of her!

Hubby just got a copy of Civ5, but by bedtime last night, I looked over and he was playing Farmville! Apparently they made Civ5 for casual gamers like me, kind of stripping it of its more technical aspects. It's all around the blogosphere apparently. He's off today so when I get home, I'll find out how long he stuck with it. He's very disappointed.

I can be a serious Civ IV addict--I once mailed my disc to my son for 6 months of safekeeping. I've sworn to play until I win at "Monarch". Is it true they've removed "Religion"?

128 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 2:24:10pm

re: #1 goddamnedfrank

These people need to look up the terms anencephaly and fistula.

I'd provide links, but this is lunchtime.

Oh yes. After fasting for 13 hours, having four vials of blood extracted from my person, I treated myself to hamachi (2 pcs), unagi (2 pcs), sake (2 pcs), shiro maguro (2 pcs), a Philly roll, and a 12 oz Asahi . Lunch is most important.

129 Fortitudine  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 4:02:50pm

First, let me point out that I support abortion rights, and I find the idea of forcing someone to bear the child of rape or incest just as appalling as Charles does.

But this anti-abortion stance is the only one that truly is not hypocrytical. The chief moral argument against abortion is that it kills innocent babies. So if that is your criterion, of what can these unborn children possibly be guilty?

What those who claim to support abortion only in the case of rape or incest are really saying is that if you enjoyed yourself during conception, you must be punished (you sinful Jezebel, you).

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:06:59pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

I can be a serious Civ IV addict--I once mailed my disc to my son for 6 months of safekeeping. I've sworn to play until I win at "Monarch". Is it true they've removed "Religion"?

I lost like three months of my life to Alpha Centauri, terrifyingly addictive

131 Lidane  Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:07:34pm

re: #14 PT Barnum

As I said in another thread, but which bears repeating...the GOP got in bed with the Religious Right back during the Nixon Era, now they're knocked up with the socon baby, with no way to get either a divorce or an abortion.

FTFY.

The GOP and the socons started getting horizontal 40+ years ago. It's just taken the rest of the world that much longer to notice, because up until Obama's election, the GOP party bosses did a pretty good job of keeping the socons quiet and tucked away in the corner, feeding them a steady diet of bullshit to keep them around.

Ever since Obama's election, they're just not going to listen to the party bosses anymore. They're going to run the show, moderation and electability be damned. They want ideological purity, no matter the cost, and it will bring the GOP to its knees in 2012 if they nominate a crazy teabagger type for President.


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