Coulter Speaks to Gay Republicans: ‘You’re Not Black’

Wingnuts • Views: 13,561

The “gay Republican” is a weird chimera, trying to carve out a place in a political party fiercely committed to denying them civil rights. I’d like to wish them good luck, but this seems like the very definition of “wasted effort.”

And Ann Coulter’s speech at GOProud’s “Homocon” event is a stark reminder of that: Ann Coulter At Homocon: ‘Marriage Is Not A Civil Right. You’re Not Black.’

First, she ran down the stereotypical stand-up comedian’s list of reasons, including that lacking the legal right to marriage allows the less-committed partner to weasel out of it. But in a more serious note, she parroted the losing arguments of the lawyers supporting California’s Prop 8 and told the crowd that the reason she opposes (and they should oppose) same sex marriage is that it is strictly for procreation.

In one of a series of racially insensitive remarks that pervaded her speech, Coulter added, “Marriage is not a civil right. You’re not black.” It was part of a larger argument on which she later elaborated, telling the crowd that the 14th Amendment only applies to African-Americans and that it does not, in fact, apply to women, LGBT people or other minorities.

Despite the laugh lines, Coulter’s arguments against same sex marriage were not well-received by much of the crowd: for instance, the question and answer session after the speech was dominated by Homocon attendees grilling her on her position on a range of issues, including whether opposition to same sex marriage was really in line with the conservative principles of limited government and whether she personally believes that homosexuality is a choice — a question she declined to answer. In response to a question from GOProud chairman Chris Barron, she did imply that conservative opposition to same sex marriage from politicians who benefited from no-fault divorce was hypocritical and suggested that marriage-minded politicians ought to back a wholesale effort to repeal no-fault divorce laws in the states.

In fact, despite opening her speech with a joke about the difficulty of “coming out” as a fiscal conservative to one’s parents — something she congratulated the attendees on — Coulter’s speech to GOProud mystifyingly focused on social issues and not the fiscal and foreign policy issues that brought most of the attendees there. For instance, she told GOProud that the conservative gay rights movement ought to make common cause with the anti-abortion movement because, she said, “as soon as they find the gay gene, you know who’s getting aborted.” Coulter also made a forceful case against sex education in schools, accusing liberals of attempting to teach kindergartners about “fisting” (which garnered her a heckler, who shouted out “What’s wrong with fisting?”) and told the crowd that most parents didn’t want their children learning about the “homosexual lifestyle” instead of reading and writing.

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427 comments
1 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 1:59:08pm

What did they expect when they invite a professional provocateur to speak?

2 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:01:31pm

A comedian is circling a fading party like a vulture.

3 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:01:39pm

Ann used to be a dude ... She still has the adam's apple

4 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:01:42pm

I was unaware of any race specific qualifications to the 14th amendment.

5 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:02:42pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

Ann used to be a dude ... She still has the adam's apple

That's stupid.

6 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:04:34pm

re: #5 Gus 802

That's stupid.

Who are you to judge my sense of humor ... Fascist.

7 jaunte  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:05:19pm

re: #3 _RememberTonyC

Whatever her sex is, she's a dick.

8 Ojoe  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:05:35pm

Everybody be nice.

On Sunday at least.

9 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:06:45pm

re: #7 jaunte

Whatever her sex is, she's a dick.

Ann's become a caricature of herself. She needs to freshen up the repertoire ...

10 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:13:24pm

"Coulter also made a forceful case against sex education in schools, accusing liberals of attempting to teach kindergartners about “fisting”"

She's such a f***ing liar. I checked out the whole "sex education" for kindergarten students when this first came out. It consists of teaching children the proper names for their body parts. Big deal...my 3-year-old and 5-year-old already know this because I think they absolutely should know the proper anatomical terms for ALL body parts.

11 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:14:09pm

re: #6 _RememberTonyC

Who are you to judge my sense of humor ... Fascist.

That's not humor that's perpetuating transphobia. Even if she was a transsexual (which she is not) the end result is that it promotes the acceptance that society can discredit and/or denigrate someone because "they used to be a dude." Ridiculing someone for being transgendered is not acceptable even in the context of the false Coulter meme.

12 jaunte  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:14:12pm
...she parroted the losing arguments of the lawyers supporting California's Prop 8 and told the crowd that the reason she opposes (and they should oppose) same sex marriage is that it is strictly for procreation.


Following this reasoning would suggest that married couple who adopt children are somehow not truly married, and I strongly disagree.

13 Wayne A. Schneider  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:15:14pm
...and told the crowd that most parents didn’t want their children learning about the “homosexual lifestyle” instead of reading and writing.

I admit that I have never had children, but if children are going to learn about anything from anybody, shouldn't they learn the truth? I believe that the reason conservatives don't want kids to learn about such things in school is because they hope the kids never find out those things exist. They would rather their kids lived in ignorance of things like homosexuality, rather than teach them the truth. It personally disgusts them, and they would rather pretend it doesn't happen.

They also wish to reserve the right to teach their kids to hate the people they think should be hated. That's another reason they oppose a multi-cultural educational curriculum. If kids learn the truth about the people their parents hate, they might lose faith and respect for their hate-filled parents.

14 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:16:28pm

re: #13 Wayne A. Schneider

If kids learn the truth about the people their parents hate, they might lose faith and respect for their hate-filled parents.

Bingo!

15 Wayne A. Schneider  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:17:51pm

re: #12 jaunte

My wife and I never had children, never adopted children, and never wanted to have children. We were married in a restaurant by a Justice of the Peace (as opposed to in a house of worship by a member of the clergy). Yet no one has ever questioned our right to be married to each other.

16 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:18:12pm

I find plenty I see on the net (even here) occasionally offensive. You read WAY too much into my motives. I could care less if she was a dude.

17 Henchman 25  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:20:17pm

RINOS!!1!1! The whole lot of them!!1!

//

18 jaunte  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:21:50pm

This part of her argument is also absurd:

...Coulter added, "Marriage is not a civil right. You're not black." It was part of a larger argument on which she later elaborated, telling the crowd that the 14th Amendment only applies to African-Americans and that it does not, in fact, apply to women, LGBT people or other minorities.


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
19 Wayne A. Schneider  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:23:06pm

re: #10 Sionainn

"Coulter also made a forceful case against sex education in schools, accusing liberals of attempting to teach kindergartners about “fisting”"

She's such a f***ing liar. I checked out the whole "sex education" for kindergarten students when this first came out. It consists of teaching children the proper names for their body parts. Big deal...my 3-year-old and 5-year-old already know this because I think they absolutely should know the proper anatomical terms for ALL body parts.

Haven't they figured out yet that if you don't teach kids the correct names for their reproductive parts, they'll start using the ones you wish they wouldn't use?

20 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:31:33pm

re: #19 Wayne A. Schneider

Haven't they figured out yet that if you don't teach kids the correct names for their reproductive parts, they'll start using the ones you wish they wouldn't use?

Randal Graves: Why haven't you fucked Myra yet?

Elias: Well, we can't because of Pillow Pants.

Randal Graves: What the fuck's Pillow Pants?

Elias: Pillow Pants is a little troll who lives in her pussy.

[Randal stares]

Elias: Pillow Pants is her pussy troll?

[scoffs]

Elias: Duh. You know how every girl's parents put a pussy troll in them when the girls are young, to keep them from having premarital sex?

Randal Graves: ...Sure.

Elias: Well Myra's is named Pillow Pants. And so even though she totally wants to have sex with me, Myra says if I put my... thing in her, Pillow Pants will bite it off. So, I gotta wait until Pillow Pants gets peed out of her body on her 21st birthday before we can have sex.

Randal Graves: [floored] And Myra told you this?

Elias: Boyfriends and girlfriends talk to each other about sex stuff

Randal. You'd know this if you ever had a girlfriend.

Randal Graves: Have you and Myra even kissed yet?

Elias: We would have already if it wasn't for Listerfiend.

Randal Graves: [beat] Listerfiend is her mouth troll, isn't it?

21 elizajane  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:33:09pm

The gay people who stood and listened to this woman spew foulness at them must really hate themselves. In fact, as far as I can tell, that's the very definition of a gay Republican, in or out of the closet.

22 mr.JA  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:34:04pm

"Coulter also made a forceful case against sex education in schools, accusing liberals of attempting to teach kindergartners about “fisting”"

Bullshit. I'm from arguably one of the most liberal countries in the world (holland), and yes, we got taught that there are people who are homosexual in primary school. What the hell is wrong with that, it is well established that 7-8% of the male, and ~3% of the female population is gay or lesbian.
However, I have never even heard of 'fisting' before I got to an age that was beyond secondary school.
It is a bit ironic that the statistics are completely against these social conservatives - when holland and england were compared in a study, with holland being a liberal country and open about sex education and England being a prudent country giving only 'basic' sex education.
The results showed that in holland people had sex the first time on average one year (!) later than the English, and the reasons for doing so were 'better' (as in, 'I feel like it' instead of 'peer pressure from friends').

If I hear what sex education my american colleagues got, I cringe - how can you tell kids such bullshit... threatening them that if they have sex before marriage they'll get either pregnant or an STD, and NOT telling them that there are condoms that prevent these is absolutely and utterly irresponsible. One of my (US american) friends got sex education in her Sunday school because the people there believed that the sex ed. they got in schools was rubbish. They were right.

I bloody well realize that correlation does not causation, but at home we have early sex education, and a proper explanation about how the various anti-conception methods work... - we have 1/10th of the teenage pregnancies the US has, and less abortions, too...

Eat that, social conservatives.

23 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:34:23pm

I got to know a few of the Log Cabin Republicans a few years ago. One thing that drove them to being Republicans is gun control. Some want the right to defend themselves and understand they face a special threat, the gay basher.

24 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:36:01pm

The "fisting" meme seems to really touch a primal right wing nerve. Jim "The Dim" Hoft is constantly ranting about it.

25 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:36:54pm

re: #21 elizajane

The gay people who stood and listened to this woman spew foulness at them must really hate themselves. In fact, as far as I can tell, that's the very definition of a gay Republican, in or out of the closet.

Sort of the same question has come up about Democrat Jews. They must really hate themselves, considering some of the crap I've read coming from the left on places like KOS.

(Oh no... the Magical Balance Fairy... the Magical Balance Fairy)

Evidently you have no respect for someone who is gay if they are gay AND conservative.

Shame.

26 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:37:57pm

It's interesting to note the strong support the left has for gay rights, but not the right to defend themselves with contemporary tools like a gun at home or ccw.

27 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:39:05pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

I got to know a few of the Log Cabin Republicans a few years ago. One thing that drove them to being Republicans is gun control. Some want the right to defend themselves and understand they face a special threat, the gay basher.

And the Log Cabin Republicans are not as "lock step" as people want to make them out to be...

"The 1992 Log Cabin Republican convention was held in Spring, Texas, a Houston exurb. It was the first time LCR had such a large presence of the major national press at a convention. LCR also had two open delegates: Martin K. Keller and Frank N. Ricchiazzi. Both delegates were appointed by Governor Pete Wilson of California. The big issue was whether or not LCR would endorse the re-election of President George H. W. Bush. The group voted to deny that endorsement, based on the 1992 Republican National Convention that preceded it in Houston.[9]"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:39:10pm

Her shtick is so tired and feeble. She comes across like someone who spent her adolescence listening to Sam Kinnison, Buddy Hackett, and Howard Stern without even slightly "getting" the jokes.

29 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:39:14pm

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

It's interesting to note the strong support the left has for gay rights, but not the right to defend themselves with contemporary tools like a gun at home or ccw.

It's the "well regulated militia" part.
;)

30 jaunte  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:39:36pm

re: #24 Charles

About 14,500 results: [Link: www.google.com...]

31 sagehen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:39:38pm

re: #21 elizajane

The gay people who stood and listened to this woman spew foulness at them must really hate themselves. In fact, as far as I can tell, that's the very definition of a gay Republican, in or out of the closet.

They didn't just listen to her, they *invited* her! And they paid her good money for it!!

Obviously, these are not people we can trust with spending decisions.

32 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:40:06pm

Why do gays try to align with Republicans who want to deny them rights, or Democrats who exploit them?

33 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:40:26pm

re: #31 sagehen

They didn't just listen to her, they *invited* her! And they paid her good money for it!!

Obviously, these are not people we can trust with spending decisions.

Paying someone to talk shit about you...
What ever floats your boat, I suppose?

34 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:41:08pm

re: #32 pharmmajor

Why do gays try to align with Republicans who want to deny them rights, or Democrats who exploit them?

what, you want a gay third party?

35 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:42:01pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

Okay, that made me laugh.

36 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:42:24pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Sort of the same question has come up about Democrat Jews. They must really hate themselves, considering some of the crap I've read coming from the left on places like KOS.

So the rantings of a number of idiots on a blog has just the same impact as the GOP's anti-civil rights platform for homosexuals?

37 allegro  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:42:33pm

Can anyone recall when the last time the Democratic platform included any gun control measures?

38 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:42:41pm

re: #34 brookly red

what, you want a gay third party?

I'd swear there's a joke in here involving the Whig party and organizing one's collection of shoes, but I can't find it.

39 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:43:01pm

re: #24 Charles

The "fisting" meme seems to really touch a primal right wing nerve. Jim "The Dim" Hoft is constantly ranting about it.

Not only that. but the term itself gets out there into the news cycle;

"Hey, mom, what's fisting?"

"Where did a 10-year old girl hear a term like that, in school?"

"No. Fox News. So what is it?"

{sound of head exploding}

40 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:43:41pm

re: #34 brookly red

what, you want a gay third party?

Actually I was thinking they should join the Libertarian Party; we actually respect the rights of homosexuals.

41 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:43:49pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

It's the "well regulated militia" part.
;)

Well IMHO the right to self defense stands apart, paralleled to the second amendment. And now we have a ruling from SCOTUS that this is an individual right. Like the right to eat, or drink or inhale, not enumerated as the right to defend yourself from violent attack but certainly there in a sense.
To me the second is far more arguable than the simple necessity of access to the right tool for the job.

42 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:44:13pm

re: #36 bratwurst

So the rantings of a number of idiots on a blog has just the same impact as the GOP's anti-civil rights platform for homosexuals?

You say "rantings of a number of idiots on a blog?" Either you don't get out much or you are being willfully blind to the anti-Israel rhetoric that comes from the left.

43 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:44:28pm

Libertarians extend a hand to gay voters:
[Link: www.lp.org...]

44 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:44:31pm

re: #40 pharmmajor

Actually I was thinking they should join the Libertarian Party; we actually respect the rights of homosexuals.

Except that the official Libertarian party is full of SoCon nutters...

45 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:44:35pm

re: #26 Rightwingconspirator

It's interesting to note the strong support the left has for gay rights, but not the right to defend themselves with contemporary tools like a gun at home or ccw.

I'm a "left" and I don't have a problem with people defending themselves.

46 sagehen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:44:52pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Sort of the same question has come up about Democrat Jews. They must really hate themselves, considering some of the crap I've read coming from the left on places like KOS.

(Oh no... the Magical Balance Fairy... the Magical Balance Fairy)

Evidently you have no respect for someone who is gay if they are gay AND conservative.

Shame.

Your MBF seems to have a cramp in one wing, he's not properly balanced.

The anti-semitic crap you've heard from the left isn't coming from the party leadership, and it most certainly isn't in the Dems' national party platform (or any state party platform.) Can you say anything even remotely similar about gays/Republicans?

47 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:45:14pm

re: #41 Rightwingconspirator

Well IMHO the right to self defense stands apart, paralleled to the second amendment. And now we have a ruling from SCOTUS that this is an individual right. Like the right to eat, or drink or inhale, not enumerated as the right to defend yourself from violent attack but certainly there in a sense.
To me the second is far more arguable than the simple necessity of access to the right tool for the job.

Why are you bringing up the SCOTUS. Activist judges the bunch of them.

48 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:45:43pm

re: #40 pharmmajor

Actually I was thinking they should join the Libertarian Party; we actually respect the rights of homosexuals.

well in theory everyone should be a libertarian...

49 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:45:59pm

“as soon as they find the gay gene, you know who’s getting aborted.”

Mrs. Coulter.. don't take this the wrong way, but as soon as they find the genes that make you act the way you act....

50 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:46:26pm

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

You say "rantings of a number of idiots on a blog?" Either you don't get out much or you are being willfully blind to the anti-Israel rhetoric that comes from the left.

And just as soon as it becomes part of the Democratic party platform you will have a GREAT point. In the meantime, you are talking to a proudly Zionist Democrat.

51 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:46:33pm

re: #46 sagehen

Your MBF seems to have a cramp in one wing, he's not properly balanced.

The anti-semitic crap you've heard from the left isn't coming from the party leadership, and it most certainly isn't in the Dems' national party platform (or any state party platform.) Can you say anything even remotely similar about gays/Republicans?

I get it... that makes it ok... if we don't put it down on paper, then we can't be held responsible for it.

52 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:46:34pm

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

Why are you bringing up the SCOTUS. Activist judges the bunch of them.

Walter™ v2.15.
:)

53 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:46:39pm

re: #48 brookly red

well in theory everyone should be a libertarian...

Amen to that. Or were you being sarcastic? I can't tell with text.

54 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:47:08pm

re: #49 jamesfirecat

“as soon as they find the gay gene, you know who’s getting aborted.”

Mrs. Coulter.. don't take this the wrong way, but as soon as they find the genes that make you act the way you act...

sergio valanties... now there are gay jeans.

55 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:47:09pm

re: #50 bratwurst

And just as soon as it becomes part of the Democratic party platform you will have a GREAT point. In the meantime, you are talking to a proudly Zionist Democrat.

Enjoy. You're talking to a proudly Zionist conservative.

56 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:47:34pm

re: #12 jaunte

Following this reasoning would suggest that married couple who adopt children are somehow not truly married, and I strongly disagree.

Don't forget how if we find that someone is barren for some reason or produces non functional sperm they shouldn't be allowed to marry!

57 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:48:13pm

re: #48 brookly red

well in theory everyone should be a libertarian...

Government and Freedom is not a zero sum game.

That's why I'm not a libertarian.

58 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:48:52pm

Coulter is a dumb-assed comedian who should not be on the record talking policy. It's stupid to have her doing so.

59 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:49:34pm

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

Enjoy. You're talking to a proudly Zionist conservative.

We will pick up this discussion again the SECOND hatred for Israel becomes part of the Democratic party platform the way denial of civil rights to homosexuals has become part of the GOP platform, I promise.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:49:42pm

So, is she saying that she'd be OK with black gay Republicans getting married?

61 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:50:14pm

re: #32 pharmmajor

Why do gays try to align with Republicans who want to deny them rights, or Democrats who exploit them?

How do Democrats "Exploit" them exactly just so we're clear....?

62 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:50:21pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

Government and Freedom is not a zero sum game.

That's why I'm not a libertarian.

They (libertarians) don't want it to be a "zero sum game'

They do want it to be a clearly defined "limited sum game" as outlined in the constitution

And no, i'm not "one" either

63 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:50:30pm

re: #53 pharmmajor

Amen to that. Or were you being sarcastic? I can't tell with text.

both. in theory everyone should be libertarian... in theory every one should be a socialist... its this damn life thing that keeps getting in the way of theorys .

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:50:47pm

re: #10 Sionainn

"Coulter also made a forceful case against sex education in schools, accusing liberals of attempting to teach kindergartners about “fisting”"

She's such a f***ing liar. I checked out the whole "sex education" for kindergarten students when this first came out. It consists of teaching children the proper names for their body parts. Big deal...my 3-year-old and 5-year-old already know this because I think they absolutely should know the proper anatomical terms for ALL body parts.

If a child knows he has a penis, what's NEXT?

65 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:51:37pm

re: #62 sattv4u2

They (libertarians) don't want it to be a "zero sum game'

They do want it to be a clearly defined "limited sum game" as outlined in the constitution

And no, i'm not "one" either

The problem is that if we "just go back to the constitution there's a lot of stuff that I like about it that we've added to it over the years.

I like a progressive income tax over taxing someone for how much land they own for example....

66 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:51:40pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

If a child knows he has a penis, what's NEXT?

I taught all my kids about private parts. Why does the school need to talk about it?

67 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:51:42pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

So, is she saying that she'd be OK with black gay Republicans getting married?

SFZ uses Logic Bomb against Coulter!
SFZ wins!

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:51:46pm

re: #12 jaunte

Following this reasoning would suggest that married couple who adopt children are somehow not truly married, and I strongly disagree.

Straight couples marry even if they plan not to have kids, are infertile, plan to adopt, or are too old to have children together, and that's fine, AND IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

69 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:51:58pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

If a child knows he has a penis, what's NEXT?

Or, heaven forbid, a girl knows that it's called a penis.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:52:29pm

re: #15 Wayne A. Schneider

My wife and I never had children, never adopted children, and never wanted to have children. We were married in a restaurant by a Justice of the Peace (as opposed to in a house of worship by a member of the clergy). Yet no one has ever questioned our right to be married to each other.

I actually think being married in a restaurant, especially an excellent restaurant, is awesome.

71 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:52:39pm

re: #61 jamesfirecat

How do Democrats "Exploit" them exactly just so we're clear...?

Make them empty promises to get votes, then ignore them and refuse to deliver on the promises.

72 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:52:45pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

If a child knows he has a penis, what's NEXT?

test, test, 123...

73 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:53:33pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

The problem is that if we "just go back to the constitution there's a lot of stuff that I like about it that we've added to it over the years.

I like a progressive income tax over taxing someone for how much land they own for example...

Nice ,,, it's easy when you're not one of the 2% that pay 45% of the taxes

'TAX THE RICH ,, THEY CAN AFFORD IT"!

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:53:33pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

Walter, do I even dare ask where that astonishing bit of dialogue came from?

75 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:53:45pm

re: #45 Sionainn

I'm a "left" and I don't have a problem with people defending themselves.

Glad to hear it & thanks! Like the Log Cabins, you see the need. Drop a line to these guys for me would ya? Oh and take a look at the overall view by the big left party.

76 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:53:50pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

So, is she saying that she'd be OK with black gay Republicans getting married?

first you would need to find 2...

77 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:53:51pm

re: #69 Sionainn

Or, heaven forbid, a girl knows that it's called a penis.

The correct term is "Boy stuff".

78 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:54:17pm

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

Why are you bringing up the SCOTUS. Activist judges the bunch of them.

Only when you hate the decision. LOL

79 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:54:20pm

re: #71 pharmmajor

Make them empty promises to get votes, then ignore them and refuse to deliver on the promises.

Is it the Dem's fault that the Republicans filibustered their attempt to repeal DADT?

80 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:54:28pm

re: #66 rwdflynavy

I taught all my kids about private parts. Why does the school need to talk about it?

Lots of parents get the heebie jeebies when it comes to properly naming body parts and use ridiculous names like "hoo ha" and "wee wee." Schools teach health and anatomy. It's only logical that schools teach body parts to students.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:55:12pm

re: #34 brookly red

what, you want a gay third party?

I would join a gay third party in a heartbeat.

82 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:55:40pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, do I even dare ask where that astonishing bit of dialogue came from?

I'm a bastion of clever contemporary themes, not bad for a 57 year old.

It's from Kevin Smith's "Clerks II."

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

83 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:55:41pm

re: #80 Sionainn

Lots of parents get the heebie jeebies when it comes to properly naming body parts and use ridiculous names like "hoo ha" and "wee wee." Schools teach health and anatomy. It's only logical that schools teach body parts to students.

Are we ranked 30th in the industrial world in health and anatomy or science and math? I always forget...
//

84 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:55:57pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Is it the Dem's fault that the Republicans filibustered their attempt to repeal DADT?

Remind me again who was the president that signed it into law??

(oh ,, wait , he was "misled" bt an evil person!!!))

85 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:01pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Nice ,,, it's easy when you're not one of the 2% that pay 45% of the taxes

'TAX THE RICH ,, THEY CAN AFFORD IT"!

I'm just saying a progressive income tax is OBVIOUSLY better than a land tax.

Is there something wrong with thinking that farmers who need a lot of land to break even on the cost of growing crops shouldn't be punished for it?

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:03pm

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

You say "rantings of a number of idiots on a blog?" Either you don't get out much or you are being willfully blind to the anti-Israel rhetoric that comes from the left.

What part of it comes from actual prominent people in the Democratic party?

87 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:33pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

So, is she saying that she'd be OK with black gay Republicans getting married?

It's probably an immutable versus mutable argument. I would add that being GLBT isn't always observed as being a mutable characteristic. I would suspect that Coulter is arguing that being gay is mutable and thus promoting a concept of "straight acting".

88 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:38pm

re: #75 Rightwingconspirator

Glad to hear it & thanks! Like the Log Cabins, you see the need. Drop a line to these guys for me would ya? Oh and take a look at the overall view by the big left party.

While I don't have a problem with defending oneself with a gun, I also don't have a problem with gun control laws.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:48pm

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

I get it... that makes it ok... if we don't put it down on paper, then we can't be held responsible for it.

Failing to convince.

90 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:56:53pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

I would join a gay third party in a heartbeat.

My neighbor has a HUGE gay party once every couple of months

Wifey and I always bring dessert and wine!

91 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:57:02pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

I would join a gay third party in a heartbeat.

well if you can't find one in San Francisco what can I say?

92 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:57:05pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

If a child knows he has a penis, what's NEXT?

Exactly. Everyone knows it's your tallywacker until you turn 18, at which time it becomes your Roman Pillar of Manhood.

93 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:57:28pm

re: #84 sattv4u2

Remind me again who was the president that signed it into law??

(oh ,, wait , he was "misled" bt an evil person!!!))

Yeah except that oh wait, before DADT gay's couldn't serve at all.

DADT was good thing for gays who wanted to serve.

It wasn't perfect, it wasn't even "great" or "adequate" but it was better than what came before.

Or do you disagree with me?

94 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:58:04pm

re: #85 jamesfirecat

I'm just saying a progressive income tax is OBVIOUSLY better than a land tax.

Is there something wrong with thinking that farmers who need a lot of land to break even on the cost of growing crops shouldn't be punished for it?

Nahhh ,, but those rich people,, FRAK them ,, what do they need with all that extra investment capital cash in their mattresses

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #66 rwdflynavy

I taught all my kids about private parts. Why does the school need to talk about it?

You could also teach your kids their colors and shapes. Why would the school need to talk about it then?

96 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:58:53pm

re: #93 jamesfirecat

Yeah except that oh wait, before DADT gay's couldn't serve at all.

DADT was good thing for gays who wanted to serve.

It wasn't perfect, it wasn't even "great" or "adequate" but it was better than what came before.

Or do you disagree with me?

They couldn't?

Wow ,, I wish my older sisters best friend (who dies in Vietnam) was aware of that

It could have saved his life!

97 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:58:57pm

re: #93 jamesfirecat

DADT was better than what came before. Hopefully something better than DADT will be forthcoming.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:59:08pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Nice ,,, it's easy when you're not one of the 2% that pay 45% of the taxes

'TAX THE RICH ,, THEY CAN AFFORD IT"!

I pay taxes. I can afford it.

99 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:59:40pm

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

You could also teach your kids their colors and shapes. Why would the school need to talk about it then?

I did teach them about colors and shapes. I'd rather they concentrate on academics instead of sex ed. I'll handle that part.

100 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:59:48pm

re: #93 jamesfirecat

re: #96 sattv4u2

They couldn't?

Wow ,, I wish my older sisters best friend (who diesD in Vietnam) was aware of that

It could have saved his life!

pimf ,,,

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 2:59:58pm

re: #76 brookly red

first you would need to find 2...

There's three hundred million people in this country. There's got to be two black gay Republicans.

Of course, whether they would be interested in each other is another question...

102 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:00:26pm

I'm really disappointed with the name log Cabin Repub's...Gotta change the name...I know a lot of my Sister's gay guy friends..( They effen Rock)
They really need a new name...I Suggest a slogan like, WE"RE FABULOUS!
Forget the Log Cabin stuff...Bring a new interior deco to the Party..Dress up the Grand Old Party in a new party dress...Cause right now..It Sucks..( snicker)
Effen the old party..I say let the Gays take over the GOP and reform it..
Cause..Say it with me..
THEY"RE FABULOUS!

103 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:00:40pm

re: #88 Sionainn

I agree in general. Regulations designed to facilitate safe purchase, possession, carry, training and if necessary use by the responsible law abiding adult are fine with me. But I live where many regulations are designed to interfere with that process or create a very burdensome environment. So I object to those.

Screening, training, safe storage, carry rules etc, all good by me.

104 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:00:58pm

re: #92 austin_blue

Exactly. Everyone knows it's your tallywacker until you turn 18, at which time it becomes your Roman Pillar of Manhood.

Funny that... I remember engaged at 16 married at 18 with the prom being a kind of honeymoon... I think we have grown in some ways.

105 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:01:18pm

re: #97 Liberal Classic

DADT was better than what came before. Hopefully something better than DADT will be forthcoming.

Yeah DADT would be like if instead of Black's not being able to serve, they could do it as long as they wore white sheets and gloves over them at all times, or if women were only allowed to serve as long as they wore fake beards...

DADT is degrading and insulting, but for all of that it's a step in the right direction.

106 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:01:35pm

re: #96 sattv4u2

They couldn't?

Wow ,, I wish my older sisters best friend (who dies in Vietnam) was aware of that

It could have saved his life!

Well then clearly DADT didn't do anything so why did you bother to bring it up?

107 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:01:47pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

If I were a LCR, I'd find that mildly insulting. Most gay men aren't flamboyant types.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:01:58pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

I pay taxes. I can afford it.

OK, technically I can't afford it, but I pay taxes anyway. What the hell.

109 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:02:05pm

re: #99 rwdflynavy

I did teach them about colors and shapes. I'd rather they concentrate on academics instead of sex ed. I'll handle that part.

Anatomy and health are "academics."

110 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:02:13pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

Well then clearly DADT didn't do anything so why did you bother to bring it up?

I didn't

I answered YOUR #79

111 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:02:44pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

There's three hundred million people in this country. There's got to be two black gay Republicans.

Of course, whether they would be interested in each other is another question...

yes but one is gay & one is a lesbian... so what is the frickin point?

112 Sionainn  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:02:59pm

re: #103 Rightwingconspirator

Looks like we agree.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:03:08pm

re: #111 brookly red

yes but one is gay & one is a lesbian... so what is the frickin point?

Well, in that case they will have no problem getting married.

114 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:03:30pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

I didn't

I answered YOUR #79

Fair enough.

Tell you what... someone who is familiar with the army (there has to be some lizard who can fit that bill) what was things like before DADT when it came to gay or lesbian members serving?

115 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:03:40pm

Since someone brought up DKos.

Oh look!

Ann Coulter wants Jews "to be perfected"

116 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:03:54pm

re: #105 jamesfirecat

The history of racial integration in the military is something I don't know a lot about. Seems to have been a shift some time between the Second World War and the Vietnam War. What was the state of integration during the Korean War?

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:00pm

re: #115 Gus 802

Since someone brought up DKos.

Oh look!

Ann Coulter wants Jews "to be perfected"

[Video]

I want Ann Coulter to go away. We all want shit we can't have.

118 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:02pm

re: #107 Liberal Classic

If I were a LCR, I'd find that mildly insulting. Most gay men aren't flamboyant types.

It was meant as light hearted humor

119 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:35pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, in that case they will have no problem getting married.

but could they build a scale model of a mission?

120 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:43pm

re: #116 Liberal Classic

The history of racial integration in the military is something I don't know a lot about. Seems to have been a shift some time between the Second World War and the Vietnam War. What was the state of integration during the Korean War?

Ehh either way Integration is a good comparison to be made... as bad as the idea of serving in segregated units is, it's a step in the right direction compared to not being able to serve at all....

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:05:54pm

re: #115 Gus 802

Since someone brought up DKos.

Oh look!

Ann Coulter wants Jews "to be perfected"

[Video]

I guess being a Jew is also mutable.

122 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:06:24pm

re: #115 Gus 802

Since someone brought up DKos.

Oh look!

Ann Coulter wants Jews "to be perfected"


[Video]

And that is stupid on any level.

123 allegro  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:06:31pm

re: #103 Rightwingconspirator

I agree in general. Regulations designed to facilitate safe purchase, possession, carry, training and if necessary use by the responsible law abiding adult are fine with me. But I live where many regulations are designed to interfere with that process or create a very burdensome environment. So I object to those.
Screening, training, safe storage, carry rules etc, all good by me.

So what part of the platform you linked to with the seeming request that we object to in writing to our representatives do you disagree with?

We will protect Americans’ Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:06:48pm

re: #119 brookly red

but could they build a scale model of a mission?

If they're old enough to be getting married, they should be leaving that project in the hands of their nine-year-old.

125 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:07:12pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess being a Jew is also mutable.

///Because religion just like sexuality is a lifestyle choice!

126 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:07:27pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

If they're old enough to be getting married, they should be leaving that project in the hands of their nine-year-old.

what a freakin cop out!

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:08:24pm

re: #125 jamesfirecat

///Because religion just like sexuality is a lifestyle choice!

And since you can CHOOSE the religion of the majority, why should we give any special equal rights to anyone who chooses not to be a Christian?

128 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:08:35pm

re: #114 jamesfirecat

Fair enough.

Tell you what... someone who is familiar with the army (there has to be some lizard who can fit that bill) what was things like before DADT when it came to gay or lesbian members serving?

They weren't asked ,, and they didn't tell!

If they did tell (or were "caught in the act") they were disciplined up to and including discharged (umm,, just like a straight who was "caught in the act")

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:09:46pm

re: #126 brookly red

what a freakin cop out!

What, you want a more direct answer? I am sure that any black gay Republican in this nation, with the help of a fourth-grade social studies textbook and a lot of Elmer's glue could at least get a B+ on his or her model of the Mission San Gabriel.

130 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:09:59pm

re: #128 sattv4u2

They weren't asked ,, and they didn't tell!

If they did tell (or were "caught in the act") they were disciplined up to and including discharged (umm,, just like a straight who was "caught in the act")

From what I've heard before DADT they actually did ask and people were forced to out and out lie....

Can I get some conformation on that because nothing personal satt but since we're arguing this I'm going to want to see some links before I'd take your word that I'm wrong just because you said so...

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:10:47pm

re: #128 sattv4u2

They weren't asked ,, and they didn't tell!

If they did tell (or were "caught in the act") they were disciplined up to and including discharged (umm,, just like a straight who was "caught in the act")

So there was no distinction there whatsoever?

132 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:11:19pm

re: #123 allegro

Support for the Brady Bill and what Handgun Control became interferes with the right to buy and possess at home in various ways. The assault weapon ban is built upon a fiction, and opposition to CCW is well known. I have no problem with the gun show loophole getting closed. But interference with purchase and CCW is interfering with the ability to defend one's responsible self.

133 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:12:14pm

From the article:

...including whether opposition to same sex marriage was really in line with the conservative principles of limited government...

This is where the rubber meets the road, and the socons don't have any traction.

134 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:12:18pm

re: #128 sattv4u2

They weren't asked ,, and they didn't tell!

If they did tell (or were "caught in the act") they were disciplined up to and including discharged (umm,, just like a straight who was "caught in the act")

They were asked what their sexuality was, actually. Why are you lying about this? Previous to DADT, people suspected of being gay or lesbian were actively investigated.

Why lie?

[Link: www.hrc.org...]

135 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:12:26pm

re: #132 Rightwingconspirator

Support for the Brady Bill and what Handgun Control became interferes with the right to buy and possess at home in various ways. The assault weapon ban is built upon a fiction, and opposition to CCW is well known. I have no problem with the gun show loophole getting closed. But interference with purchase and CCW is interfering with the ability to defend one's responsible self.

Seriously.
Ask what the hell an "assualt weapon" is and you get a lot of different answers.
Besides, forget guns.
Swords>>>Guns.

136 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:12:27pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

What, you want a more direct answer? I am sure that any black gay Republican in this nation, with the help of a fourth-grade social studies textbook and a lot of Elmer's glue could at least get a B+ on his or her model of the Mission San Gabriel.

Hah! why do you think they would need help? and for Gods sake why whoul anyone need to build one?

137 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:12:50pm

re: #134 Obdicut

Before "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the stated policy of the U.S. military was that "homosexuality is incompatible with military service." All recruits were asked about their sexual orientation before they were allowed to serve. Service members suspected of being gay, lesbian or bisexual were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial and prison if they refused to give up the names of other service members who were also gay. Many of the gay soldiers being discharged were dishonorably discharged, making them ineligible for military pension and other retirement benefits.

138 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:13:37pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

So there was no distinction there whatsoever?

I didn't say that

What I did say is if either were "caught in the act" of having sex

There was a "distinction" if I went up to my platoon commander and stated "I'm gay" or "I'm straight"

If I stated the former, I would be met with a shrug
The latter, not so much

Similar to POST DADT (hence, the don't TELL part)

139 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:14:08pm

Neo-Nazis discover Jewish roots; embrace Judaism

Two Polish former neo-Nazis who recently discovered their Jewish roots were the subjects of a CNN documentary aired on Saturday. The two, who met when they were 12 and were married at 18, describe themselves as having been rebellious youth and slowly becoming affiliated with Warsaw's neo-Nazi skinhead movement during their teenage years.

Ola vaguely remembered having a conversation with her mother when she was 13 years old in which her mother told her about their family's Jewish roots. As she later discovered through her own research, her ancestors hid their Jewish identities in order to escape the persecution of the Nazi Germany and later in the Soviet Union.

As she and her husband became more and more involved in Warsaw's skinhead movement, Ola remembered that conversation with her mother so many years before. Determined to find answers for herself, she went to Poland's Jewish Historical Institute. However, Ola did not only confirm her own family's Jewish roots. She also discovered that her neo-Nazi husband's ancestors were Jewish as well.

140 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:14:11pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

Sorry, but you are very wrong on this one.

141 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:14:30pm

re: #134 Obdicut

They were asked what their sexuality was, actually. Why are you lying about this? Previous to DADT, people suspected of being gay or lesbian were actively investigated.

Why lie?

[Link: www.hrc.org...]

Where did I lie?

142 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:15:01pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Seriously.
Ask what the hell an "assualt weapon" is and you get a lot of different answers.
Besides, forget guns.
Swords>>>Guns.

I have had a lot of plates thrown at me... but that is no reason to ban them.

143 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:15:36pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

I didn't say that

What I did say is if either were "caught in the act" of having sex

There was a "distinction" if I went up to my platoon commander and stated "I'm gay" or "I'm straight"

If I stated the former, I would be met with a shrug
The latter, not so much

Similar to POST DADT (hence, the don't TELL part)

Umm... it says quite clearly...

Before "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the stated policy of the U.S. military was that "homosexuality is incompatible with military service." All recruits were asked about their sexual orientation before they were allowed to serve. Service members suspected of being gay, lesbian or bisexual were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial and prison if they refused to give up the names of other service members who were also gay. Many of the gay soldiers being discharged were dishonorably discharged, making them ineligible for military pension and other retirement benefits.


"Service members suspected of being gay, lesbian or bisexual were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial and prison if they refused to give up the names of other service members who were also gay."

So yeah you can't really argue that DADT wasn't a step in the right direction....

Well I suppose you can argue it, but its like arguing that at the moment tax cuts are the best way to stimulate the economy...

The facts are not in your favor....

144 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:15:47pm

re: #142 brookly red

I have had a lot of plates thrown at me... but that is no reason to ban them.

And if said plates carried pineapple pizza?

145 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:16:27pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

Where did I lie?

You said they weren't asked. They were.

They were also investigated if they were even suspected of being gay.

Why lie?

146 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:16:37pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

And if said plates carried pineapple pizza?

DIE DIE DIE DIE

147 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:17:08pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

And if said plates carried pineapple pizza?

I never would have dated an infidel in the first place so its moot.

148 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:17:18pm

re: #143 jamesfirecat

Service members suspected of being gay, lesbian or bisexual were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial

Yes ,, and as I stated, if the suspect denied it and wasn't "caught in an act" he/she stayed in

149 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:18:12pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Is it the Dem's fault that the Republicans filibustered their attempt to repeal DADT?

[Link: www.lp.org...]

"President Obama and the Democrats had almost a year of complete control of the federal government: the Presidency, the House, and a filibuster-proof 60 votes in the Senate. They could have repealed 'don't ask don't tell.' They could have gotten rid of the Defense of Marriage Act. But they didn't do either of those things. That's a complete and total betrayal of all the promises they made to gay and lesbian voters for years.

"After a carefully orchestrated failure in the Senate, the Democrats are now blaming Republicans for blocking the repeal of 'don't ask don't tell.' Of course, three Democrats just voted against it too, including Majority Leader Harry Reid. Reid claims he voted for procedural reasons, but the whole situation seems calculated to look like they're trying to help, while making sure they don't actually help."

150 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #148 sattv4u2


Yes ,, and as I stated, if the suspect denied it and wasn't "caught in an act" he/she stayed in

Why are you leaving out the part where they'd be investigated and threatened with court-martial unless they turned in other gay servicemembers?

Any particular reason you're lying so much about this?

151 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:18:48pm

re: #148 sattv4u2


Service members suspected of being gay, lesbian or bisexual were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial

Yes ,, and as I stated, if the suspect denied it and wasn't "caught in an act" he/she stayed in

"were questioned, prosecuted and even threatened with court martial and prison if they refused to give up the names of other service members who were also gay."

//Yes...

///With a line like that I'm sure nothing at all bad happened to them as long as they weren't openly caught in bed with another man/woman....

152 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:18:52pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Okay an assault weapon is what a soldier uses or would choose to assault a building or whatever. Fair definition?

Assault weapons are capable of fully automatic fire-One squeeze and you can shoot it empty and reload, do it again. If you look at ATF reg's page 5 you see a system that goes in part by brand and model or similarity in appearance to the real deal-. Not just function. Full auto has been illegal since Bonnie and Clyde.

153 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:19:28pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, technically I can't afford it, but I pay taxes anyway. What the hell.

I wouldn't mind paying taxes so much if a lot of what I pay didn't go to unnecessary wars and bullshit bailouts.

154 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:20:21pm

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

Okay an assault weapon is what a soldier uses or would choose to assault a building or whatever. Fair definition?

Assault weapons are capable of fully automatic fire-One squeeze and you can shoot it empty and reload, do it again. If you look at ATF reg's page 5 you see a system that goes in part by brand and model or similarity in appearance to the real deal-. Not just function. Full auto has been illegal since Bonnie and Clyde.

Oh, I know what it is.
It's the media I was commenting on.
:)

155 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:20:30pm

I would argue that banning gay marriage is not a right nor a civil right so to speak. The arguments against gay marriage is made largely on religious grounds. Rarely are secular arguments made against gay marriage. There is no valid biological or scientific reasoning for its prohibition. Therefore the burden of proof is on those that want it prohibited and they have no rational real-world proof to support their beliefs.

The 1st Amendment explicitly prohibits law from being created based on religious beliefs. They can only argue on secular grounds and then that can be deconstructed using the Equal Protection Clause. Therefore while one can hold a personal belief against gay marriage the state has no right to prohibit gay marriage.

156 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:20:48pm

re: #149 pharmmajor

[Link: www.lp.org...]

"Reid claims he voted for procedural reasons, but the whole situation seems calculated to look like they're trying to help, while making sure they don't actually help."

You quote just lost ALL credibility with me.

The guy clearly doesn't know how things procedurally work in the senate.

Also if two democrats would have voted it, then yes it is the fault of those two democrats and the republicans for filibustering this.

Don't blame the actual democrats for the fact that the Republicans won't let us have an up or down vote on the issue!

157 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:20:55pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Seriously.
Ask what the hell an "assualt weapon" is and you get a lot of different answers.
Besides, forget guns.
Swords>>>Guns.

BTW I like swords, but the DA really does NOT! I am better off with my gun, less likely to be accused of excessive force. Go figure.

158 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:21:31pm

re: #153 pharmmajor

I wouldn't mind paying taxes so much if a lot of what I pay didn't go to unnecessary wars and bullshit bailouts.

I would not mind paying taxes if I had a job... WooooH WooooH hope and change!

159 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:21:38pm

re: #145 Obdicut

You said they weren't asked. They were.

They were also investigated if they were even suspected of being gay.

Why lie?

1965,, recruiting office in Cambridge Mass,, my sisters gay friend (God rest his soul) signed up so he could go to Vietnam,.,he wasn't "asked"

1972,,, recruiting office in Chelsea Massachusetts,,, me and three friends ,, NON of us were 'asked"

So ,, it may have been a "policy" but it wasn't enforced 100% of the time

160 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:22:33pm

re: #159 sattv4u2

So ,, it may have been a "policy" but it wasn't enforced 100% of the time

What a pathetic backpedal.

161 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:22:44pm

re: #157 Rightwingconspirator

BTW I like swords, but the DA really does NOT! I am better off with my gun, less likely to be accused of excessive force. Go figure.

Heh, I know.
I can get an carry permit for a gun here in Va. Hell, I can even openly carry one legally with a permit.
But a sword? LOLHELLNO.
So ass backwards.
;)

162 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:23:21pm

re: #154 Varek Raith

Media?! *rolls eyes* Idiots. BTW glad to hear Bob Barker is expected to recover from his fainting spell at a shooting range...

163 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:23:35pm

re: #130 jamesfirecat

From what I've heard before DADT they actually did ask and people were forced to out and out lie...

Can I get some conformation on that because nothing personal satt but since we're arguing this I'm going to want to see some links before I'd take your word that I'm wrong just because you said so...

I can back Satt up on this. Back when I, was in the AF, )late 70's - mid-80's) Officers were cashiered immediately if they were caught or even strongly suspected. Saw a talented young navigator run out of the bomb squadron. Enlisted ranks could be "kinda" gay, as long as they didn't show up with "roommates" at the clubs. I knew several Admins who were obviously gay and allowed to stay if they were super competent. I also knew a pilot from another base (met on TDY) who was Butch Gay and had a thing for younger men. When he turned 30, he started getting questions from his CO like, "Why haven't you settled down, yet?"

He eventually went to the private sector before he got chucked out on his ear.

164 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:16pm

re: #160 Obdicut

What a pathetic backpedal.

Yup,,,personal experience is ALWAYS a "backpedal"

So you know for certain that 100% of ALL recruits were asked if they were gay in all the decades PRIOR to DADT?

Please supply that link!

165 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:16pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

Heh, I know.
I can get an carry permit for a gun here in Va. Hell, I can even openly carry one legally with a permit.
But a sword? LOLHELLNO.
So ass backwards.
;)

Visit my range and I'll get you a free pass. :)

166 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:18pm

re: #163 austin_blue

Satt is claiming nobody was asked about orientation and you had to be caught having gay sex to be kicked out.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:21pm

re: #155 Gus 802

I would argue that banning gay marriage is not a right nor a civil right so to speak. The arguments against gay marriage is made largely on religious grounds. Rarely are secular arguments made against gay marriage. There is no valid biological or scientific reasoning for its prohibition. Therefore the burden of proof is on those that want it prohibited and they have no rational real-world proof to support their beliefs.

The 1st Amendment explicitly prohibits law from being created based on religious beliefs. They can only argue on secular grounds and then that can be deconstructed using the Equal Protection Clause. Therefore while one can hold a personal belief against gay marriage the state has no right to prohibit gay marriage.

There is an ongoing attempt to insist that straight marriage serves some sort of necessary secular social function that gay marriage cannot. Reproduction usually comes up. The fact that this is purely dumbass does not seem to slow people down much.

168 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:42pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

Heh, I know.
I can get an carry permit for a gun here in Va. Hell, I can even openly carry one legally with a permit.
But a sword? LOLHELLNO.
So ass backwards.
;)

you are less likely to shoot your self in the foot then to cut your dick off drawing a sword...

169 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:24:55pm

re: #156 jamesfirecat

"Reid claims he voted for procedural reasons, but the whole situation seems calculated to look like they're trying to help, while making sure they don't actually help."

You quote just lost ALL credibility with me.

The guy clearly doesn't know how things procedurally work in the senate.

Also if two democrats would have voted it, then yes it is the fault of those two democrats and the republicans for filibustering this.

Don't blame the actual democrats for the fact that the Republicans won't let us have an up or down vote on the issue!

I'm blaming BOTH parties. As I mentioned in the article I quoted, the Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority. They could've ignored the ret@rd republicans and passed the repeal, but they didn't.

170 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:25:14pm

re: #164 sattv4u2


So you know for certain that 100% of ALL recruits were asked if they were gay in all the decades PRIOR to DADT?

I know it was policy to ask. You said that they weren't asked. You lied.

The policy was to ask about orientation, and actively investigate anyone suspected of being gay.

171 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:25:17pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

Heh, I know.
I can get an carry permit for a gun here in Va. Hell, I can even openly carry one legally with a permit.
But a sword? LOLHELLNO.
So ass backwards.
;)

Chainswords remain a grey area

172 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:25:17pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Yup,,,personal experience is ALWAYS a "backpedal"

So you know for certain that 100% of ALL recruits were asked if they were gay in all the decades PRIOR to DADT?

Please supply that link!

That's not my argument.

My argument is that DADT was a change in policy for the better.

Even if it only went from Horrible to bad.

Do you disagree?

173 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:25:18pm

re: #162 Rightwingconspirator

Media?! *rolls eyes* Idiots. BTW glad to hear Bob Barker is expected to recover from his fainting spell at a shooting range...

WHAT ,,, he's what ,,,,100,, 120 years old!!?!?!

Why 9how) is he even HOLDING a gun?!?!

174 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:26:23pm

re: #169 pharmmajor

I'm blaming BOTH parties. As I mentioned in the article I quoted, the Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority. They could've ignored the ret@rd republicans and passed the repeal, but they didn't.

They had a filibuster proof majority if all Democrats went for it.

What do you want them to do if one blue dog doesn't go along?

//Hire some union thugs to make them "see reason"?

175 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:26:25pm

re: #173 sattv4u2

WHAT ,,, he's what ,,,100,, 120 years old!!?!?!

Why 9how) is he even HOLDING a gun?!?!

85 years young. BTW that was at my range. As a shareholder/shooter anyway.

176 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:26:39pm

re: #166 Obdicut

I hate to inject myself into an argument between others, but I think sattv4u's point is more that because of the discriminatory environment before DADT that enforcement and punishment was arbitrary and capricious.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:26:49pm

re: #159 sattv4u2

1965,, recruiting office in Cambridge Mass,, my sisters gay friend (God rest his soul) signed up so he could go to Vietnam,.,he wasn't "asked"

1972,,, recruiting office in Chelsea Massachusetts,,, me and three friends ,, NON of us were 'asked"

So ,, it may have been a "policy" but it wasn't enforced 100% of the time

And it wasn't a 'policy' it was a POLICY, beginning with the First World War. Read up on this. A lot of people got very, very fucked over by our attitude about this.

178 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:27:01pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Satt is claiming nobody was asked about orientation and you had to be caught having gay sex to be kicked out.


re: #170 Obdicut

I know it was policy to ask. You said that they weren't asked. You lied.

The policy was to ask about orientation, and actively investigate anyone suspected of being gay.

Really ,, you were with me, Mike Merrett, Joey Palermo and Billy Todino that day??

179 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:27:13pm

re: #175 Rightwingconspirator

85 years young. BTW that was at my range. As a shareholder/shooter anyway.

wow

180 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:27:22pm

re: #174 jamesfirecat

They had a filibuster proof majority if all Democrats went for it.

What do you want them to do if one blue dog doesn't go along?

//Hire some union thugs to make them "see reason"?

No, but I'm just saying this shows that the Dems may claim to care about gay rights, but in the end they'll just give them the shaft like the Repubs do.

181 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:27:51pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

And it wasn't a 'policy' it was a POLICY, beginning with the First World War. Read up on this. A lot of people got very, very fucked over by our attitude about this.

I agree

I never defended it

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:09pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Yup,,,personal experience is ALWAYS a "backpedal"

So you know for certain that 100% of ALL recruits were asked if they were gay in all the decades PRIOR to DADT?

Please supply that link!

It's not that they were asked on recruitment. It's that if word got around, you got asked. And the answer mattered a great deal.

READ UP ON THIS. You're trying to minimize something that was not at all trivial.

183 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:13pm

re: #180 pharmmajor

No, but I'm just saying this shows that the Dems may claim to care about gay rights, but in the end they'll just give them the shaft like the Repubs do.

Umm.... over 55 Democrats are trying to do something good for gays in the Senate, not one Republican is...

Yeah clearly these two sides are the same on the issue of Gay Rights Mr. Magic Balance Fairy!

184 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:34pm

re: #176 Liberal Classic

I hate to inject myself into an argument between others, but I think sattv4u's point is more that because of the discriminatory environment before DADT that enforcement and punishment was arbitrary and capricious.

It wasn't. He flat out-claimed that gay people weren't asked about orientation.

The policy was to ask everyone, upon recruitment, if they were gay or straight.

He lied.

185 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:39pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

see 181

186 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:45pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

There is an ongoing attempt to insist that straight marriage serves some sort of necessary secular social function that gay marriage cannot. Reproduction usually comes up. The fact that this is purely dumbass does not seem to slow people down much.

Like marriage is a necessary condition for reproduction.

187 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:28:49pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

They were actually asked upon recruitment.

188 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:29:09pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

ROFL. I can just see the permit board.... BTW it's a felony to possess law enforcement strength pepper spray. Civilian strength? 10% of the real deal. So the only permit I can get is ccw gun if that. But if I use effective pepper spray its jail for me. sheesh.

189 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:29:16pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

There is an ongoing attempt to insist that straight marriage serves some sort of necessary secular social function that gay marriage cannot. Reproduction usually comes up. The fact that this is purely dumbass does not seem to slow people down much.

I've heard the reproduction theory to no end. Reproduction of course does not require marriage. In primitive times humans reproduced without benefit of a marriage contract. Promiscuity was also a common component. Reproduction can also be accomplished quite readily outside of marriage. Then we have in vitro fertilization, surrogate mothers, etc.

190 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:29:18pm

re: #187 Obdicut

They were actually asked upon recruitment.

100% of the time,,, right?

191 allegro  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:29:29pm

re: #180 pharmmajor

No, but I'm just saying this shows that the Dems may claim to care about gay rights, but in the end they'll just give them the shaft like the Repubs do.

So according to you, 56 Dems for the repeal, 2 against, and 1 voting against for procedural reasons make the party just like the Reps who ALL voted against.

Astounding.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #176 Liberal Classic

I hate to inject myself into an argument between others, but I think sattv4u's point is more that because of the discriminatory environment before DADT that enforcement and punishment was arbitrary and capricious.

Sure, it was arbitrary. I know guys who served out back in the day, and no one said a word. That didn't change the fact that a change of personnel could catch you a dishonorable discharge like that.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:30:54pm

re: #186 Liberal Classic

Like marriage is a necessary condition for reproduction.

Or, as though marriages all lead to reproduction. It's a ridiculous connection to attempt to make.

194 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:31:02pm

re: #183 jamesfirecat

Umm... over 55 Democrats are trying to do something good for gays in the Senate, not one Republican is...

Yeah clearly these two sides are the same on the issue of Gay Rights Mr. Magic Balance Fairy!

the only way we can correct this horrible injustice is with an affirmative action program...we need to draft gays. There that should fix it!

195 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:31:11pm

re: #190 sattv4u2

100% of the time,,, right?

Very few human things are 100%. however, it was policy, so the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of them were asked.

Like this guy, for example:

[Link: www.dallasvoice.com...]

I find it funny you're now trying to claim you were only talking about your personal friends who all, through some incredibly improbably stroke of luck, weren't asked-- even though it was policy to ask every recruit.

You were asked what things were like in the military for gay men and women before DADT.

You responded that they weren't asked.

Now you're setting a world record in the backpedal.

196 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:32:35pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Satt is claiming nobody was asked about orientation and you had to be caught having gay sex to be kicked out.

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straight. Like I said in my post here, I did see a Navigator run out of the Bomb Squadron because he was suspected of being gay. He was. Another officer in the Field Maintenance Squadron was caught in his bread truck with an Airman 1st Class. He was immediately separated from the service. It happened. I never heard of any Queer Hunts, though. There were some Stoner Hunts, however. Four guys in my pilot training class (all USAFA grads), never got their wings because they were caught smoking pot. Everyone in the class was grilled over that one to root out the rest of the "drug addicts".

197 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:33:00pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

It's the "well regulated militia" part.
;)

c'mon............you never heard of the gay mafia?..............

/

198 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:33:26pm

re: #195 Obdicut

Very few human things are 100%.

but ,, But ,, BUT you said they WERE asked, because it was 'policy'

I didn;t see you mention anything about not being 100%

Guess you lied, huh?

199 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:34:10pm

re: #196 austin_blue

I can't imagine the daily stress a gay guy would feel before DADT, knowing that there might be an investigation going on for him right at that moment.

What ludicrous bullshit it all is.

200 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:34:25pm

re: #196 austin_blue

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straigh

Thank you

Neither was I

And thats all my point was

But Obdi likes to try to have a "gotchya" moment

201 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:35:07pm

Hey Walter, I just sent you an email.

202 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:35:33pm

re: #196 austin_blue

re: #200 sattv4u2

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straigh

Thank you

Neither was I

And thats all my point was

But Obdi likes to try to have a "gotchya" moment


And BTW ,, my older sisters best friend who WAS gay and was NOT asked served and died in Vietnam, God rest him,,

203 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:35:35pm

Which reminds me. Since when is it the purview of the state to be in the business of controlling the reproductive capability of its populace? Is this not a form of eugenics and perhaps a form of promoting positive population control? Typically population control is for the lowering of the population. Using an argument against gay marriage by saying it would reduce the population is tantamount to a state endorsement of population control.

204 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:35:47pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

True or false:

Before DADT, it was military policy to ask, upon induction, what the orientation of the person was?

Before DADT, if someone was suspected of being gay, they were investigated?

Before DADT, if someone was identified as gay, they were often threatened with court-martial if they didn't reveal any other gays that they knew in the service?

205 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:35:50pm

re: #188 Rightwingconspirator

ROFL. I can just see the permit board... BTW it's a felony to possess law enforcement strength pepper spray. Civilian strength? 10% of the real deal. So the only permit I can get is ccw gun if that. But if I use effective pepper spray its jail for me. sheesh.

Laws don't always make sense on their face. Sometimes it really is simply about drawing a line between what the cops get and what you get.

206 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:36:59pm

re: #204 Obdicut

True or false:

Before DADT, it was military policy to ask, upon induction, what the orientation of the person was?
True ,,now ,, did EVERY recruiter follow "policy?
Before DADT, if someone was suspected of being gay, they were investigated?
True ,,, and if the investigators found nothing ,,???
Before DADT, if someone was identified as gay, they were often threatened with court-martial if they didn't reveal any other gays that they knew in the service?


True , see above

207 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:03pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Laws don't always make sense on their face. Sometimes it really is simply about drawing a line between what the cops get and what you get.

Nothing yet on turbo lasers...
*Knocks on wood*

208 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:17pm

damn

209 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:25pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

True , see above

So when you said "They weren't asked", that was not true.

Thank you.

210 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:39pm

re: #196 austin_blue

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straight. Like I said in my post here, I did see a Navigator run out of the Bomb Squadron because he was suspected of being gay. He was. Another officer in the Field Maintenance Squadron was caught in his bread truck with an Airman 1st Class. He was immediately separated from the service. It happened. I never heard of any Queer Hunts, though. There were some Stoner Hunts, however. Four guys in my pilot training class (all USAFA grads), never got their wings because they were caught smoking pot. Everyone in the class was grilled over that one to root out the rest of the "drug addicts".

Sadly, given the drug problems the military had back in the early-mid 1970's, Stoner Hunts really were needed. It was rough on people who got caught, but it did achieve the needed discipline.

211 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:45pm

re: #176 Liberal Classic

I hate to inject myself into an argument between others, but I think sattv4u's point is more that because of the discriminatory environment before DADT that enforcement and punishment was arbitrary and capricious.

Yes, it was, and Satt didn't lie. I was never asked.

212 brookly red  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:37:54pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Laws don't always make sense on their face. Sometimes it really is simply about drawing a line between what the cops get and what you get.

pepper spray is good on pizza, tacos & most BBQ...

213 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:38:20pm

re: #204 Obdicut


True or false:

Before DADT, it was military policy to ask, upon induction, what the orientation of the person was?
True ,,now ,, did EVERY recruiter follow "policy?
Before DADT, if someone was suspected of being gay, they were investigated?
True ,,, and if the investigators found nothing ,,???
Before DADT, if someone was identified as gay, they were often threatened with court-martial if they didn't reveal any other gays that they knew in the service?
True ,, see answer above

214 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:38:24pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Quite so. I have had long conversation with police, some senior trainers about all this over beers after competing or training together. the thing is all the laws get passed one at a time. Not in a connected coordinted way at all. So we get what we have.

215 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:39:35pm

I want a Desert Eagle...
Image: DesertEagle.jpg
Sexy.

216 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:39:52pm

re: #211 austin_blue

Yes, it was, and Satt didn't lie. I was never asked.

Again ,, thanks

Hard to unring the bell!!

217 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:40:19pm

re: #215 Varek Raith

I want a Desert Eagle...
Image: DesertEagle.jpg
Sexy.

Looks like you don't need bullets with that thing.

/

218 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:40:24pm

I want a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

219 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:40:38pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

According to that logic, if I ask, "Will the cops arrest you for carrying cocaine?" the answer you'd give is "No" because some cops wouldn't.

You were asked what things were like for people in the military before DADT.

You responded that they were not asked.

You also claimed that they had to actually be caught 'in the act' to get kicked out.

Neither of those statements are true. As you have now admitted.

220 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:40:59pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straigh

Thank you

Neither was I

And thats all my point was

But Obdi likes to try to have a "gotchya" moment

Here's a "gotchya" for you.

Having heard what you heard.

I say DADT was better than what came before and that Clinton did gay's a favor (even if not a very good one) by signing into law.

Do you agree or disagree?

221 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:41:33pm

re: #218 Liberal Classic

I want a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Varek has a whole battalion set of them. He can loan you one of the spares. :D

222 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:42:10pm

re: #214 Rightwingconspirator

Quite so. I have had long conversation with police, some senior trainers about all this over beers after competing or training together. the thing is all the laws get passed one at a time. Not in a connected coordinted way at all. So we get what we have.

True that.

223 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:42:44pm

re: #218 Liberal Classic

I want a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Just what you see on the shelf pal.

224 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:42:50pm

re: #201 Alouette

Hey Walter, I just sent you an email.

Got it... just sent a reply. Thanks for that little story, I have a little story for you... see email.

225 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:43:03pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

Not necessarily. I was never asked if I was gay or straigh

Thank you

Neither was I

And thats all my point was

But Obdi likes to try to have a "gotchya" moment

You are very welcome. This is an anti-idoitarian site. And that goes for *everyone*. Too much drama around here sometimes. Always argue from what you *know* can be supported, not what you *feel* must be true. That leads to Troofers, Nirthers, and other idiots.

226 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:43:11pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

Varek has a whole battalion set of them. He can loan you one of the spares. :D

Yeah, but his troops can't hit anything with them.

227 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:44:12pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just what you see on the shelf pal.

"You sold a reverberating carbonizer with mutate capacity to an unlicensed cephalopoid, Jeebs, you piece of shit..."

"He looked all right to me."

228 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:45:16pm

re: #225 austin_blue

So you agree with the statement that before DADT: "They weren't asked, and they didn't tell"?

229 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:45:54pm

re: #228 Obdicut

So you agree with the statement that before DADT: "They weren't asked, and they didn't tell"?

He wasn;t
I wasn't
Billy Todino wasn''t

We qualify as "they"

230 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:46:28pm

Later gators.
Food Time!

231 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:47:00pm

re: #220 jamesfirecat

Here's a "gotchya" for you.

Having heard what you heard.

I say DADT was better than what came before and that Clinton did gay's a favor (even if not a very good one) by signing into law.

Do you agree or disagree?

I'll agree with that. It was a transition agreement until it was time for the next step. This is known as "politics".

232 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:47:03pm

re: #228 Obdicut

re: #229 sattv4u2

He wasn;t
I wasn't
Billy Todino wasn''t

We qualify as "they"

Oh ,, and I forgot

"Do go on"

:)

233 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:47:20pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

He wasn;t
I wasn't
Billy Todino wasn''t

We qualify as "they"

Not if he says "they" to mean the majority of people involved/who enlisted rather than your small sample size.

Though now we're just getting anti-semantic....

234 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:47:44pm

re: #227 Varek Raith

"You sold a reverberating carbonizer with mutate capacity to an unlicensed cephalopoid, Jeebs, you piece of shit..."

"He looked all right to me."

"Voila! The ZF-1. It's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying, good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into four parts, undetectable by x-ray, ideal for quick, discreet interventions. A word on firepower. Titanium recharger, three thousand round clip with bursts of three to three hundred, and with the Replay button - another Zorg invention - it's even easier."

235 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:48:22pm

re: #231 austin_blue

I'll agree with that. It was a transition agreement until it was time for the next step. This is known as "politics".

Thank you, trying to paint Clinton as anti-gay because he signed DADT is like trying to paint FDR as racist because he oversaw blacks being able to be tankers or military pilots for the first time, but insisted their units be segregated....

236 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:48:23pm

BBIAB ,,,,

gotta go set up some post game shows

(don't ask ,, I won't tell)

237 Lidane  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:48:33pm

re: #37 allegro

Can anyone recall when the last time the Democratic platform included any gun control measures?

This is what the 2008 Democratic platform says about firearms:

We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce commonsense laws and improvements – like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system, and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.

238 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:48:45pm

re: #226 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but his troops can't hit anything with them.

You must be mixing them up with regular stormtroopers. I selected Varek Death Star Division's cadre myself. Any plasma gunners who couldn't learn to shoot straight required hospitalization to have a plasteel boot surgically removed from their ass. >:D

239 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:48:48pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

We qualify as "they"

No, you don't. That's anecdotal.

100% of speeders are not ticketed for speeding.

Speeders are, however, ticketed for speeding.

240 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:50:40pm

Being mid-to-far left on social issues and frequently deeply conflicted on fiscal ones, I figure I could interject the following (and you won't care!):

* I think everyone who wants to carry a concealed handgun should be allowed to do so WITH CERTAIN CAVEATS (e.g., no convicted felons, domestic violence perps, etc etc)

* I think a concealed-carry permit that is valid in the state of issue should be valid in all states that allow licensed concealed-carry.

* I am only personally familiar with the classroom testing required by the state of Texas. In my opinion, It is far, far too lax. My understanding is that many states that have shall-issue CCW have based their screening program on that of Texas.

* In accordance with the aforementioned, I would not at all be opposed to a strict federal standard of screening. Laws pertaining to lethal force, the psychology of scary confrontations, the difference between being "kinda apprehensive" and "finding one's self in the gravest extreme of bodily danger"; and how to actually fire your pistol without accidentally installing aftermarket ventilation ports in the 9 year-old behind your target should be drilled thoroughly, and tested rigorously.

241 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:50:58pm

DADT. Whatever the history is a crock of shit. Here's Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach a victim of DADT:

Image: 0256da6b1c02c91015_bwm6bxwti.jpg

242 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:51:24pm

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

You must be mixing them up with regular stormtroopers. I selected Varek Death Star Division's cadre myself. Any plasma gunners who couldn't learn to shoot straight required hospitalization to have a plasteel boot surgically removed from their ass. >:D

This would be the same Death Star division cadre which lost not one, but two, Death Stars?

243 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:51:54pm

re: #235 jamesfirecat

Thank you, trying to paint Clinton as anti-gay because he signed DADT is like trying to paint FDR as racist because he oversaw blacks being able to be tankers or military pilots for the first time, but insisted their units be segregated...

True. FDR delt with the politics as best he could. His instincts were correct, but he often had to defer to the reality of the Democratic party of the time (many southern Democrats of the New Deal era were openly racist).

244 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:52:24pm

re: #240 negativ

The biggest headache for me with gun rights is private property; do all private property owners have the right to say "No guns allowed here"-- like, in a bar, a mall, etc?

245 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:52:27pm

re: #241 Gus 802

DADT. Whatever the history is a crock of shit. Here's Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach a victim of DADT:

Image: 0256da6b1c02c91015_bwm6bxwti.jpg

DADT like so many things the democrats do, was well meaning but in the end sort of fell apart once reality ensued....

246 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:52:29pm

re: #228 Obdicut

So you agree with the statement that before DADT: "They weren't asked, and they didn't tell"?

I didn't say that. I said that I wasn't asked, but that I knew of some people who were if they became suspect. That's different. That's called nuance.

You should attempt to be clearer in your questions. A good start is to never begin a question with "So you agree...?'"

Kinda of rude.

247 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:53:36pm

re: #242 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This would be the same Death Star division cadre which lost not one, but two, Death Stars?

No, those cadres are dead. These are veterans hand-picked by me. Each one with at least 20 confirmed Rebel kills.

248 Liberal Classic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:53:42pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

DADT like so many things the democrats politicians do, was well meaning but in the end sort of fell apart once reality ensued...

249 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:54:48pm

re: #246 austin_blue

I didn't say that. I said that I wasn't asked, but that I knew of some people who were if they became suspect. That's different. That's called nuance.

You should attempt to be clearer in your questions. A good start is to never begin a question with "So you agree...?'"

Kinda of rude.

You're missing my point, dude. If you don't agree with that, then you don't agree with what Satt actually said.

What he said, in response to the question for what things were like for gay people in the military before DADT, was "They weren't asked".

250 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:56:02pm

re: #240 negativ

Being mid-to-far left on social issues and frequently deeply conflicted on fiscal ones, I figure I could interject the following (and you won't care!):

* I think everyone who wants to carry a concealed handgun should be allowed to do so WITH CERTAIN CAVEATS (e.g., no convicted felons, domestic violence perps, etc etc)

* I think a concealed-carry permit that is valid in the state of issue should be valid in all states that allow licensed concealed-carry.

* I am only personally familiar with the classroom testing required by the state of Texas. In my opinion, It is far, far too lax. My understanding is that many states that have shall-issue CCW have based their screening program on that of Texas.

* In accordance with the aforementioned, I would not at all be opposed to a strict federal standard of screening. Laws pertaining to lethal force, the psychology of scary confrontations, the difference between being "kinda apprehensive" and "finding one's self in the gravest extreme of bodily danger"; and how to actually fire your pistol without accidentally installing aftermarket ventilation ports in the 9 year-old behind your target should be drilled thoroughly, and tested rigorously.

The problem is that the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force differ between different jurisdictions and harmonizing them would be extremely difficult. Nor am I liking the idea of giving a greater role to the federal government. That last is, admittedly, a political preference of mine.

251 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:56:41pm

re: #246 austin_blue

Now now ,, there'll be non of that, mister

You'll be told what you meant when you said what you said, and you'll learn to like it!!

252 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:57:11pm

Nice pass by Manning. 48 yard pass on 3rd and 15.

253 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:57:13pm

re: #251 sattv4u2

Now now ,, there'll be non of that, mister

You'll be told what you meant when you said what you said, and you'll learn to like it!!

LOL.

254 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:57:21pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

DADT like so many things the democrats do, was well meaning but in the end sort of fell apart once reality ensued...

It went in the wrong direction. Possibly reduced the amounts of dishonorable discharges but I think they do so by coercing those they charge as being gay. If you fight it then it become a dishonorable. To be honest I really am not familiar with the legal history. I've seen that before DADT it meant interrogations, lie detectors and a dishonorable discharge.

255 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:57:42pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

re: #170

Really ,, you were with me, Mike Merrett, Joey Palermo and Billy Todino that day??

Was it a hot and sweaty one?

You were aware enough of this well publicized official, codified policy to have expected the question, and therefore specifically noted the lapse in standard procedure. It was noteworthy enough in its absence that you discussed this surprisingly unasked presumption of your heterosexual orientation with your two friends.

256 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:57:48pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

No, those cadres are dead. These are veterans hand-picked by me. Each one with at least 20 confirmed Rebel kills.

Considering Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were written up as rebels, its not saying much.

257 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:58:54pm

re: #256 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Considering Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were written up as rebels, its not saying much.

Well then, maybe this will speak to you:

SMACK!

258 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 3:59:40pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force differ between different jurisdictions and harmonizing them would be extremely difficult. Nor am I liking the idea of giving a greater role to the federal government. That last is, admittedly, a political preference of mine.

If you've got a problem, and a the only obvious solution is making the federal government bigger, maybe you should gird your loins, take your medicine and suggest the federal government get bigger.

America won't survive is Americans care more about their political biases be they liberal or conservative than what is good for America.

You know like that guy who hires a Sherif who doesn't work anywhere reasonably near the border to do an add about immigration and how they need to complete a border fence once said "country first."

259 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:00:04pm

re: #251 sattv4u2

Now now ,, there'll be non of that, mister

You'll be told what you meant when you said what you said, and you'll learn to like it!!

*snort*

I feel your pain.
Bring up Katrina.
Reine describes what she atually lived through in real life, what she saw, what she observed, what she directly did.

And will be told it's all wrong, because that's not what was reported.

260 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:00:16pm

re: #254 Gus 802

It went in the wrong direction. Possibly reduced the amounts of dishonorable discharges but I think they do so by coercing those they charge as being gay. If you fight it then it become a dishonorable. To be honest I really am not familiar with the legal history. I've seen that before DADT it meant interrogations, lie detectors and a dishonorable discharge.

So DADT was at least microscopically better, right?

261 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:00:30pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Well then, maybe this will speak to you:

SMACK!

You missed.

262 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:00:52pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

So DADT was at least microscopically better, right?

Maybe so.

263 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:01:11pm

I'm flipping mad at GoDaddy. Email and webmail suck and I'm about to pull my website hosting. I guess it's my fault for not paying enough $. WTF am i supposed to do?

264 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:02:04pm

re: #262 Gus 802

Maybe so.

I think it was unquestionably a step in the right direction.

A step that isn't always fully taken and is several steps from where America "should" be in my opinion, but a step none the less.

265 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:02:17pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

So DADT was at least microscopically better, right?

So it's not just a matter of repealing DADT. They would have to set up new guidelines.

266 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:03:05pm

re: #261 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You missed.

Well this won't...

[Dark_Falcon activates thermal detonator, shoves it down Kragar's pants, then throws Kragar down an open elevator shaft before the device goes off]

267 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:03:19pm

re: #265 Gus 802

So it's not just a matter of repealing DADT. They would have to set up new guidelines.

I don't quite follow, what do you mean?

268 pharmmajor  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:03:28pm

re: #244 Obdicut

The biggest headache for me with gun rights is private property; do all private property owners have the right to say "No guns allowed here"-- like, in a bar, a mall, etc?

Yes, it's their property so they have the right to set the rules.

269 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:03:34pm

re: #264 jamesfirecat

I think it was unquestionably a step in the right direction.

A step that isn't always fully taken and is several steps from where America "should" be in my opinion, but a step none the less.

Yeah. There's not much sense in looking back now. Time to move forward and beyond DADT and towards the 21st century.

270 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:03:44pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

Well this won't...

[Dark_Falcon activates thermal detonator, shoves it down Kragar's pants, then throws Kragar down an open elevator shaft before the device goes off]

You assume I'm wearing pants

271 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:04:30pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

I don't quite follow, what do you mean?

Just that it would have to be codified that one cannot be discharged from the military for simply being gay.

272 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:06:01pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Do you really want to know where the detonator gets shoved if you aren't wearing pants?

273 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:06:44pm

They would also have to amend and extend fraternization rules.

274 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:06:46pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

Was it a hot and sweaty one?

You were aware enough of this well publicized official, codified policy to have expected the question, and therefore specifically noted the lapse in standard procedure. It was noteworthy enough in its absence that you discussed this surprisingly unasked presumption of your heterosexual orientation with your two friends.

Yup ,, right you are

I was all of 18 1/2 ,, knew all about military codes/ procedures/ policies

I was so pissed that they didn't name me a Brigadier General ON THE SPOT! Or at least give me a seat on the Joint Chiefs of Staff!

275 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:08:10pm

re: #249 Obdicut

You're missing my point, dude. If you don't agree with that, then you don't agree with what Satt actually said.

What he said, in response to the question for what things were like for gay people in the military before DADT, was "They weren't asked".

Relentless little booger, aren't you?

What I heard when I read Satt's post was that they were not asked *as policy* back in the day. Which is true. Keep in mind that in the late 70s', there were very few "out" gays anywhere. Now I am sure that if some sensitive young man came into a recruiting office wearing a tutu and makeup, he might have been asked if he was uummm "different", because policy at the time was that homosexuals could not serve.

By the way, I actively worked my first campaign as a block walker for McGovern- a former B-24 pilot in WWII- in 1972. What was your first active campaign?

You should be nicer to old people like us.

276 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:08:43pm

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

Do you really want to know where the detonator gets shoved if you aren't wearing pants?

I'm counting on my natural majesty and your overwhelming sense of awe to keep myself safe.

Bask in my majesty.

277 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:08:52pm

re: #274 sattv4u2

Yup ,, right you are

I was all of 18 1/2 ,, knew all about military codes/ procedures/ policies

I was so pissed that they didn't name me a Brigadier General ON THE SPOT! Or at least give me a seat on the Joint Chiefs of Staff!

Are you quite sure you want to bait GDF like that? It tends not to end well.

278 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:09:40pm

re: #244 Obdicut

The biggest headache for me with gun rights is private property; do all private property owners have the right to say "No guns allowed here"-- like, in a bar, a mall, etc?

Varies by state law. In Texas you have to have the right size sign with the right verbiage. In Florida you can ignore a posted site (private property) unless you are discovered to be carrying, you have to leave if asked. Florida's law tends to mirror many states, if you are carrying concealed there is no crime unless you are asked to leave, then it is a trespassing charge if you refuse.

279 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:10:22pm

re: #278 rwdflynavy

I am not a lawyer, but stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

280 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:10:27pm

re: #275 austin_blue

Relentless little booger, aren't you?

What I heard when I read Satt's post was that they were not asked *as policy* back in the day. Which is true. Keep in mind that in the late 70s', there were very few "out" gays anywhere. Now I am sure that if some sensitive young man came into a recruiting office wearing a tutu and makeup, he might have been asked if he was uummm "different", because policy at the time was that homosexuals could not serve.

By the way, I actively worked my first campaign as a block walker for McGovern- a former B-24 pilot in WWII- in 1972. What was your first active campaign?

You should be nicer to old people like us.

Great,, thanks to that post in the morning I will now have to 'splain to my boss why this monitor and keyboard has coffee spewed all over them

281 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:10:50pm

re: #275 austin_blue

Relentless little booger, aren't you?

What I heard when I read Satt's post was that they were not asked *as policy* back in the day. Which is true. Keep in mind that in the late 70s', there were very few "out" gays anywhere. Now I am sure that if some sensitive young man came into a recruiting office wearing a tutu and makeup, he might have been asked if he was uummm "different", because policy at the time was that homosexuals could not serve.

By the way, I actively worked my first campaign as a block walker for McGovern- a former B-24 pilot in WWII- in 1972. What was your first active campaign?

You should be nicer to old people like us.

Wow, McGovern. You really must have been a glutton for punishment. :)

282 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:11:30pm

re: #275 austin_blue

What was your first active campaign

Third grade

Spit ball target!

283 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You assume I'm wearing pants

Eeeww!

284 BongCrodny  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:12:53pm

Very silly point of reference here, but there was a scene in the Bill Murray comedy "Stripes" where he and Harold Ramis were asked if they were homosexuals.

Hard to believe the writers conjured up that one out of thin air.

285 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:13:31pm

re: #284 BongCrodny

Very silly point of reference here, but there was a scene in the Bill Murray comedy "Stripes" where he and Harold Ramis were asked if they were homosexuals.

Hard to believe the writers conjured up that one out of thin air.

If you can't believe what you see in the movies what can you believe?!?!?!?
//

286 KenJen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:13:53pm

re: #275 austin_blue

Back in the 70's I knew a guy named Radar who served in a M.A.S.H unit. He often wore a tutu and make-up.

287 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:14:02pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Wow, McGovern. You really must have been a glutton for punishment. :)

Hell ,, I was a Muskie man that year!!

(hey ,, us New Englanders stick together!!)

288 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:14:21pm

re: #286 KenJen

Back in the 70's I knew a guy named Radar who served in a M.A.S.H unit. He often wore a tutu and make-up.

That was Max Klinger dude.

289 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:14:42pm

re: #286 KenJen

Back in the 70's I knew a guy named Radar who served in a M.A.S.H unit. He often wore a tutu and make-up.

As long as the tights are olive drab...

//

290 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:14:51pm

re: #286 KenJen

Back in the 70's I knew a guy named Radar who served in a M.A.S.H unit. He often wore a tutu and make-up.

That was Klinger

Radar was the company clerk who would say what the Colonel was saying a second before the colonel did

291 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:15:28pm

re: #287 sattv4u2

Hell ,, I was a Muskie man that year!!

(hey , us New Englanders stick together!!)

Well, the only state he won was in New England.

292 Fart Knocker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:15:35pm

re: #290 sattv4u2

GMTA

293 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:15:50pm

re: #284 BongCrodny

Very silly point of reference here, but there was a scene in the Bill Murray comedy "Stripes" where he and Harold Ramis were asked if they were homosexuals.

Hard to believe the writers conjured up that one out of thin air.

I agree ,,,,,,,

with your 1st 5 words!!

//

294 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:16:06pm

re: #292 rwdflynavy

GMTA

Ours too!

295 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:16:13pm

Whew! 104 degrees, my hygrometer (cheap) is at zero, which certainly means single digit humidity. Cool summer hot fall. SoCal does that.

296 KenJen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:16:25pm

re: #288 rwdflynavy

That was Max Klinger dude.

Opps! Yeah! Max I meant. I hated that show for some reason.

297 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:16:58pm

re: #275 austin_blue


What I heard when I read Satt's post was that they were not asked *as policy* back in the day.

They were asked, as policy. Even Satt is saying that they were asked as policy. It was an inconsistently enforced policy, but certainly anyone suspected of being gay was going to get asked at some point.

This is a good book to read about the historical context of the policy:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

You should be nicer to old people like us.

Not when they're saying things that are wrong, no.

Satt also claimed:

Yes ,, and as I stated, if the suspect denied it and wasn't "caught in an act" he/she stayed in

Which is directly contradicted by both what you said and the many, many, many investigations of those suspected of being gay who were forced out without having been caught in the act.

SUch as Thomas Dooley.

298 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:17:04pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Wow, McGovern. You really must have been a glutton for punishment. :)

I would have volunteered for anyone running against Richard Fucking Nixon and his partner in crime, Spiro (Not Convicted!) Agnew.

299 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:17:35pm

Satt this all started when you said

"Remind me again who was the president that signed it into law??

(oh ,, wait , he was "misled" bt an evil person!!!))"

Clearly intending to say DADT was a step backwards or a bad thing for gay people.

Are you willing to recant that idea and admit that DADT was better than what came before it now?

300 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:18:25pm

re: #297 Obdicut

Sorry, screwed that up:

Satt also claimed:


Yes ,, and as I stated, if the suspect denied it and wasn't "caught in an act" he/she stayed in
301 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:18:26pm

re: #286 KenJen

Back in the 70's I knew a guy named Radar who served in a M.A.S.H unit. He often wore a tutu and make-up.

Klinger?

302 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:19:01pm

re: #298 austin_blue

I would have volunteered for anyone running against Richard Fucking Nixon and his partner in crime, Spiro (Not Convicted!) Agnew.

What was wrong with Nixon (other than Watergate)? Just asking.

303 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:19:43pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

What was wrong with Nixon (other than Watergate)? Just asking.

The same things that wrong with Clinton (other than Monika).

304 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:22:07pm

re: #299 jamesfirecat

Satt this all started when you said

"Remind me again who was the president that signed it into law??

(oh ,, wait , he was "misled" bt an evil person!!!))"

Clearly intending to say DADT was a step backwards or a bad thing for gay people.

Are you willing to recant that idea and admit that DADT was better than what came before it now?

No ,, ,it all started when YOU said
Is it the Dem's fault that the Republicans filibustered their attempt to repeal DADT? (post 79)

My post which you quoted above was in response to that

But nice try

305 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:23:22pm

re: #304 sattv4u2

No ,, ,it all started when YOU said
Is it the Dem's fault that the Republicans filibustered their attempt to repeal DADT? (post 79)

My post which you quoted above was in response to that

But nice try

Yes, but what were you trying to say in that post?

Because your statement makes no sense unless you believe that DADT was a bad thing for gays compared to what came before.

That or you forgot your sarc tag....

306 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:24:52pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force differ between different jurisdictions and harmonizing them would be extremely difficult.

We can do "difficult". Remember when we -- as a nation -- used to identify a problem, and then thoroughly consider all the options and rancorously bitch at each other before eventually arriving at a solution? Yeah, me neither. Why not start now?


Nor am I liking the idea of giving a greater role to the federal government. That last is, admittedly, a political preference of mine.

An optimist would say this:

The 'federal government' is not inherently stupid, bureaucratic, wasteful, evil, and awful. But we fill it with people who are. Misanthropes are right: the system is fine, it's the people who make everything terrible.

307 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:25:20pm

re: #305 jamesfirecat

Yes, but what were you trying to say in that post?

Because your statement makes no sense unless you believe that DADT was a bad thing for gays compared to what came before.

That or you forgot your sarc tag...

I was pointing out that your "blame" is misplaced

It should not be on the " Republicans (that) filibustered their (dems) attempt to repeal DADT

Where the "blame" lies is on the congress and admin that gave us that act

308 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:25:43pm

re: #303 jamesfirecat

The same things that wrong with Clinton (other than Monika).

Point taken. BTW, it's spelled "Monica".

309 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:26:17pm

re: #307 sattv4u2

I was pointing out that your "blame" is misplaced

It should not be on the " Republicans (that) filibustered their (dems) attempt to repeal DADT

Where the "blame" lies is on the congress and admin that gave us that act

Why should the administration be blamed for an act that improved the situation from what it was previous to that, when the psych evaluation had a question about homosexual tendencies and where those suspected of homosexuality were investigated?

310 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:26:56pm

re: #306 negativ

We can do "difficult". Remember when we -- as a nation -- used to identify a problem, and then thoroughly consider all the options and rancorously bitch at each other before eventually arriving at a solution? Yeah, me neither. Why not start now?

An optimist would say this:

The 'federal government' is not inherently stupid, bureaucratic, wasteful, evil, and awful. But we fill it with people who are. Misanthropes are right: the system is fine, it's the people who make everything terrible.

"When we were making Back to the Future II there was only one kind of future you could portray in a movie and that was a dark evil future where technology is taking over people's lives, but we wanted to do that. We wanted wanted a future where the technology was bright and sunny and helpful, but the problem was the people who live in that future are assholes."

(Paraphrased from the DVD commentary to the best of my memory...)

311 Stanghazi  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #295 Rightwingconspirator

Whew! 104 degrees, my hygrometer (cheap) is at zero, which certainly means single digit humidity. Cool summer hot fall. SoCal does that.

I'm dying.

312 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #307 sattv4u2

I was pointing out that your "blame" is misplaced

It should not be on the " Republicans (that) filibustered their (dems) attempt to repeal DADT

Where the "blame" lies is on the congress and admin that gave us that act

Ummm... no.

Clinton gave us DADT as a step forward.

Today's democrats are trying to take another step forward and Republicans won't let them.

313 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:27:37pm

re: #306 negativ

An optimist would say this:

The 'federal government' is not inherently stupid, bureaucratic, wasteful, evil, and awful. But we fill it with people who are. Misanthropes are right: the system is fine, it's the people who make everything terrible.

Yeah, but I'm not an optimist. I believe that no matter what you do, any new government office will be mostly composed of time-servers, power-grabbers, and assholes.

314 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:28:24pm

re: #309 Obdicut

Why should the administration be blamed for an act that improved the situation from what it was previous to that, when the psych evaluation had a question about homosexual tendencies and where those suspected of homosexuality were investigated?

Why should we repeal it then, if it's that marvy a tool !?!?!

Write a letter to Obama and tell him you want him to back off!

315 sagehen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:28:49pm

re: #275 austin_blue

By the way, I actively worked my first campaign as a block walker for McGovern- a former B-24 pilot in WWII- in 1972. What was your first active campaign?

You should be nicer to old people like us.

Wow, you are old.

My first campaign was 1976 -- I took the bus downtown after school to do phone banking every day, and the volunteer coordinator would drive me home when they closed up shop at 8pm.

Today's campaign volunteers would laugh and laugh at our setup -- we had huge computer printouts of all the registered voters, if they told me they were undecided I'd question them further about what issues were most important to them and stuff an envelope with position papers... we used real stamps even, had to wet them with a little sponge. I'd call back a week later to ask did they read it, did it help them decide, will they be needing a ride to the polls of course we can do that for you ma'am...

316 BongCrodny  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:28:50pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

I agree ,,,

with your 1st 5 words!!

//

If you want a better anecdote, when we enlisted in the Navy in 1977, my best friend says the recruiter asked him "Have you ever had sex with a man?"

Me? I don't honestly remember. I live my screen name.

317 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:29:15pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

Why should we repeal it then, if it's that marvy a tool !?!?!

Write a letter to Obama and tell him you want him to back off!

As you well know, what's being suggested is not merely a repeal of DADT, but allowing gays and lesbians to openly serve in the military.

318 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:30:15pm

re: #316 BongCrodny

"Homosexual tendencies" was one of the questions on the psych evaluation during a lot of the post-WWII period. During WWII, they had a more comprehensive screening process for homosexuals, including, and I'm not kidding, 'distended rectum'.

319 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:30:31pm

re: #316 BongCrodny

If you want a better anecdote, when we enlisted in the Navy in 1977, my best friend says the recruiter asked him "Have you ever had sex with a man?"

Me? I don't honestly remember. I live my screen name.

Being the smart ass that I am, I would have answered "do you buy me dinner 1st?"

320 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:30:57pm

re: #318 Obdicut

"Homosexual tendencies" was one of the questions on the psych evaluation during a lot of the post-WWII period. During WWII, they had a more comprehensive screening process for homosexuals, including, and I'm not kidding, 'distended rectum'.

////Sounds like you're pretty screwed if you like to have some backdoor fun with the misses on top....

321 KenJen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:31:59pm
322 jamesfirecat  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:32:28pm

re: #321 KenJen

Odd Photo.

I'll be in bunk!

323 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #295 Rightwingconspirator

Whew! 104 degrees, my hygrometer (cheap) is at zero, which certainly means single digit humidity. Cool summer hot fall. SoCal does that.

Be grateful, there's no Santa Ana winds, yet...
*waves*
85 at the beach in the shade

324 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:33:42pm

re: #323 Floral Giraffe

Be grateful, there's no Santa Ana winds, yet...
*waves*
85 at the beach in the shade

In the shade of what!?!?

//

325 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:34:17pm

re: #323 Floral Giraffe

Be grateful, there's no Santa Ana winds, yet...
*waves*
85 at the beach in the shade

Should be another fire season, if not this year, then next.

326 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:34:49pm

It's been a while but FreddieW has a new video....

327 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:35:45pm

re: #325 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I get the "brush clearance" done here & at the folks June 1st every year.
It's paid off, more than once.

328 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:36:03pm

re: #327 Floral Giraffe

I get the "brush clearance" done here & at the folks June 1st every year.
It's paid off, more than once.

smart!

329 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:36:32pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

What was wrong with Nixon (other than Watergate)? Just asking.

On the one hand you have the Nixon known for his anti-Semitic tirades and listing of Jews in the Department of Labor; listing of big Jewish donors; and siding with Billy Graham regarding Jews in the US: “This [Jewish] stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain.” Nixon, apparently delighted, asks, “You believe that?” Graham replies, “Yes, sir.” Nixon replies: “Oh, boy. So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.” But then he is credited with saving Israel in the Yom Kippur War.

330 BongCrodny  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:36:35pm

re: #319 sattv4u2

Being the smart ass that I am, I would have answered "do you buy me dinner 1st?"

Ha! I doubt that would have occurred to him. Even back then me and him were running neck and neck with Cheech and Chong.

331 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:36:39pm

re: #324 sattv4u2

Palm Trees, duh! Umbrellas too!

332 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:37:11pm

re: #327 Floral Giraffe

I get the "brush clearance" done here & at the folks June 1st every year.
It's paid off, more than once.

Yeah, unfortunately, many don't.

333 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:37:52pm

re: #323 Floral Giraffe

Be grateful, there's no Santa Ana winds, yet...
*waves*
85 at the beach in the shade

I'll bring the drinks!

334 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:38:18pm

re: #333 Rightwingconspirator

I'll bring the drinks!

I'll drink what you bring!

335 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:42:00pm

re: #332 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When I lived in the Hollywood Hills, there was a huge vacant lot next door. I called LA County Fire, to find out how to get it cleared. The county will clear property, after serving a couple of notices to the owner, and add the cost to their next year property tax bill. I used to put the guy's number on my callendar for June 1 every year.

336 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:43:09pm

re: #335 Floral Giraffe

When I lived in the Hollywood Hills, there was a huge vacant lot next door. I called LA County Fire, to find out how to get it cleared. The county will clear property, after serving a couple of notices to the owner, and add the cost to their next year property tax bill. I used to put the guy's number on my callendar for June 1 every year.

Ahhh... So that was you !!!

337 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:43:43pm

re: #325 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Should be another fire season, if not this year, then next.

Did you see my Page on last years fire today? Intimidating to drive through.

338 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:44:17pm

re: #329 Gus 802

On the one hand you have the Nixon known for his anti-Semitic tirades and listing of Jews in the Department of Labor; listing of big Jewish donors; and siding with Billy Graham regarding Jews in the US: “This [Jewish] stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain.” Nixon, apparently delighted, asks, “You believe that?” Graham replies, “Yes, sir.” Nixon replies: “Oh, boy. So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.” But then he is credited with saving Israel in the Yom Kippur War.

Nixon was very much "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde".

339 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:46:26pm

re: #337 Rightwingconspirator

Did you see my Page on last years fire today? Intimidating to drive through.

We're listed in critical danger thru October, but at least we don't live on the outskirts where the bigger danger lies. Pretty built up around us.

340 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:47:36pm

re: #336 ozbloke

LOL!

341 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:48:15pm

re: #339 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A friend of mine just retired as a smoke jumper. He's too old, knees can't handle it anymore. Now he'll be teaching it full time.

Crazy bastard. Heroic, crazy bastard.

He actually had a fire go over him once-- after he'd done the pre-burn thing they're supposed to do, and was huddled under his reflective blanket thingy.

342 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:48:48pm

re: #339 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We're listed in critical danger thru October, but at least we don't live on the outskirts where the bigger danger lies. Pretty built up around us.

Isn't that (almost) as bad, what with the winds and all

If a house very close catches it's more likely "yours" will, no?

343 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:49:35pm

re: #318 Obdicut

"Homosexual tendencies" was one of the questions on the psych evaluation during a lot of the post-WWII period. During WWII, they had a more comprehensive screening process for homosexuals, including, and I'm not kidding, 'distended rectum'.

I had a different run-in with an Army psychiatrist in 1963. First, know that NYC was full of naifs, and I was their king. My orders for a draft physical sent me to Whitehall Examining Station, the exact location and era shown in Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant. When we went in, we were made to fill out long health questionaires including "Do you have trouble sleeping?" and "Do you worry a lot?". I checked both, very truthfully. After a day of poking and prodding, a hundred or two of us were sitting in our gutchies in a large hall, and a Corporal With a Clipboard announced: "The following people report to the shrink". So I was in front of a huge Civil Service doc with cigarette ashes falling down his extended shirtfront.

"It says here you have trouble sleeping."

"Yes."

It also says you worry a lot. What are you worried about?"

"Getting drafted."

"Get the fuck out of here, kid."

Draft notice arrived in a couple weeks.

344 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:49:37pm

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

Nixon was very much "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde".

Yeah, I've sometimes called him complex. He was just another politician of course and most of what we learned about him was through his own tapes. It's not often we have that opportunity with former presidents -- for better or for worse in what it reveals about Nixon. We always wonder about being the proverbial fly on the wall in the White House.

If I were to list three of the worse things Nixon did it would be 1) canceling Apollo 18, 19, and 20 (he actually wanted to start with 16); 2) HMOs; and 3) the War on Drugs. He also did a lot of good things such as going to China.

345 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:49:56pm

re: #339 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good for you. As Floral wrote brush clearance is critical. If I built a place in my favorite canyon (La Tuna) I would be striving for "shelter in place" clearance and design.

346 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:49:58pm

re: #339 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My folks home was where the firefighters made a stand, in the Laguna fire.
The brush had been well cleared, and the roof was non flammable.
Unbelievable, what damage the fire hoses did to the house.
And, the fire jumped their line.
But, the house didn't burn.

347 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:50:56pm

re: #342 sattv4u2

Isn't that (almost) as bad, what with the winds and all

If a house very close catches it's more likely "yours" will, no?

True, but not a lot of dry brush plus we're out of the usual wind gusts due the hills we live under.

348 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:51:17pm

re: #341 Obdicut

Give him my thanks for his service!

349 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:51:54pm

re: #343 Decatur Deb

And your worries were over!

/

350 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:52:26pm

re: #342 sattv4u2

Palm fronds are the worst. The old ones catch fire & blow in the winds.
It's why, in many fires, the burn areas are seperated & spotty.

351 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:52:33pm

re: #343 Decatur Deb

"It says here you have trouble sleeping."

"Yes."

It also says you worry a lot. What are you worried about?"

"Getting drafted."

Great exchange

I would have;
"it says you have trouble sleeping"
"yes"
It says you worry a lot, What are you worried about"
"Will I fall asleep!!"

352 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:54:24pm

re: #350 Floral Giraffe

Palm fronds are the worst. The old ones catch fire & blow in the winds.
It's why, in many fires, the burn areas are seperated & spotty.

Oh , I know ,, I've seen those flare REAL big REAL fast

I have a place in South Carolina and the Palmetto trees are the same way

353 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:54:54pm

re: #347 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, but not a lot of dry brush plus we're out of the usual wind gusts due the hills we live under.

good

354 sagehen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:55:42pm

re: #329 Gus 802

On the one hand you have the Nixon known for his anti-Semitic tirades and listing of Jews in the Department of Labor; listing of big Jewish donors; and siding with Billy Graham regarding Jews in the US: “This [Jewish] stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain.” Nixon, apparently delighted, asks, “You believe that?” Graham replies, “Yes, sir.” Nixon replies: “Oh, boy. So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.” But then he is credited with saving Israel in the Yom Kippur War.


Can I point out that none of his anti-semitism was known publicly until the tapes came out... it only affects people's view of him in hindsight, not from a 1972 perspective. (um... same also goes for his choices during the Yom Kippur War).

355 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:56:35pm

re: #354 sagehen

Can I point out that none of his anti-semitism was known publicly until the tapes came out... it only affects people's view of him in hindsight, not from a 1972 perspective. (um... same also goes for his choices during the Yom Kippur War).

Yep. The tapes. See #344.

356 sagehen  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:58:13pm

re: #344 Gus 802

If I were to list three of the worse things Nixon did it would be 1) canceling Apollo 18, 19, and 20 (he actually wanted to start with 16); 2) HMOs; and 3) the War on Drugs. He also did a lot of good things such as going to China.

EPA
OSHA
Affirmative Action

357 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:58:36pm

re: #354 sagehen

Can I point out that none of his anti-semitism was known publicly until the tapes came out... it only affects people's view of him in hindsight, not from a 1972 perspective. (um... same also goes for his choices during the Yom Kippur War).

Yes you can!!

oh , wait ,,, you just did !!!

//

358 palomino  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 4:58:48pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Sort of the same question has come up about Democrat Jews. They must really hate themselves, considering some of the crap I've read coming from the left on places like KOS.

(Oh no... the Magical Balance Fairy... the Magical Balance Fairy)

Evidently you have no respect for someone who is gay if they are gay AND conservative.

Shame.

What a load of shit. This is the weakest of equivalency fails. Since when are Dems denying civil rights to Jews?

Moreover, Kos doesn't represent the mainstream of the Dem Party. OTOH, the mainstream of the gop (which opposes SSM) pretty much does represent, uh, the mainstream of the gop.

359 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:00:36pm

re: #356 sagehen

EPA
OSHA
Affirmative Action

Image: 610x.jpg

360 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:01:35pm

re: #24 Charles

The "fisting" meme seems to really touch a primal right wing nerve. Jim "The Dim" Hoft is constantly ranting about it.

Probably because he thinks there might not be any left over for him if everybody got in on it. /

361 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:02:37pm

re: #333 Rightwingconspirator

Come on down!

362 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:07:06pm

re: #361 Floral Giraffe

Come on down!

All of us?
Cool!!

Dibs on the recliner and TV remote!

363 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:10:36pm

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant


A complex computer worm capable of seizing control of industrial plants has affected the personal computers of staff working at Iran's first nuclear power station weeks before the facility is to go online, the official news agency reported Sunday.

The project manager at the Bushehr nuclear plant, Mahmoud Jafari, said a team is trying to remove the malware from several affected computers, though it "has not caused any damage to major systems of the plant," the IRNA news agency reported.

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

364 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:12:04pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

More than one way to skin a centrifuge.

365 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:12:25pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

So true. But payback is a bitch. I'm thinking of this as the silent war.

366 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:12:33pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

developed by a 16 year old in his garage with nothing more than an X-Box hooked to the internet!

367 palomino  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:13:25pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

Someday wars will be fought in cyberspace. Until then we have to blow shit up.

368 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:13:35pm

Ruh Roh ,, Gellers on 60 Minutes

369 RawheaD  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:14:18pm

re: #24 Charles

The "fisting" meme seems to really touch a primal right wing nerve. Jim "The Dim" Hoft is constantly ranting about it.

Which probably means they have a secret desire to engage in it. Nothing wrong, mind you :-)

370 avanti  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:14:22pm

Crazy Pam is on 60 minutes.

371 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:14:24pm

re: #368 sattv4u2

Ruh Roh ,, Gellers on 60 Minutes

Squirrel!

/

372 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:14:53pm

re: #363 Killgore Trout

Game on?
Worm hits computers of staff at Iran nuclear plant

Wouldn't it be spiffy if the Iran problem could be solved with software?

Cept the interview I saw said 60% of the viris went to Iran, who has the other 40%?

Viris dont respect much...

373 Kragar  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:15:08pm

re: #367 palomino

Someday wars will be fought in cyberspace. Until then we have to blow shit up.

What do you mean "someday"? Some of us have been doing it for years.

374 avanti  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:16:07pm

re: #370 avanti

Crazy Pam is on 60 minutes.

They are tearing her up IMHO. They are showing her to be the idiot she is.

375 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:16:14pm

re: #370 avanti

Crazy Pam is on 60 minutes.

Give me a summary once she's done. The segment on Afghanistan was worth watching, but I don't like watching pure crazy in real life. In fiction its fun, but when its a real person its just sad.

376 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:16:28pm

re: #372 ozbloke

Cept the interview I saw said 60% of the viris went to Iran, who has the other 40%?

Viris dont respect much...

That unfortunate incident with Ben&Jerry's cream separator.

377 Gus  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:18:38pm

Back later.

378 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:19:09pm

re: #374 avanti

They are tearing her up IMHO. They are showing her to be the idiot she is.

Pam's as crazy-overconfident as a North Vietnamese shore battery firing on the Newport News.

379 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:19:56pm

re: #376 Decatur Deb

That unfortunate incident with Ben&Jerry's cream separator.

Thats funny, cheers.
Salmonella a small price to pay...

380 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:20:29pm

re: #376 Decatur Deb

That unfortunate incident with Ben&Jerry's cream separator.

Did I ever tell you about the time we went cow tipping near Ben and Jerrys?

381 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:21:25pm

re: #380 sattv4u2

Did I ever tell you about the time we went cow tipping near Ben and Jerrys?

Did they name a flavor for you? "Triple Tipper Dip"?

382 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:25:33pm

re: #372 ozbloke

Cept the interview I saw said 60% of the viris went to Iran, who has the other 40%?

Viris dont respect much...

If the virus shuts down my basement centrifuge my neighbors are really gonna be pissed.

383 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:25:53pm

re: #381 Decatur Deb

Did they name a flavor for you? "Triple Tipper Dip"?

Yeah ,, but the flavor never caught on

Who wants an ice cream that tastes like anchovies?

384 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:26:00pm

re: #380 sattv4u2

Did I ever tell you about the time we went cow tipping near Ben and Jerrys?

Tell the story. Now I want some ice cream. (I've got a prize bottle of Fox's U-Bet.)

385 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:26:22pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

If the virus shuts down my basement centrifuge my neighbors are really gonna be pissed.

Is that you, DinnerJacket?

386 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:27:35pm

re: #384 Decatur Deb

Tell the story. Now I want some ice cream. (I've got a prize bottle of Fox's U-Bet.)

Okay

We drove to Vermont
Got near the Ben and Jerrys plant
Saw some cows out in the field
It was dusk
We parked, sat, drank beer and waited till dark
Went into the field and tipped two cows over

387 avanti  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:28:38pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Pam's as crazy-overconfident as a North Vietnamese shore battery firing on the Newport News.

They are showing the Muslim call to prayer at the Pentagon chapel and showing the temporary prayer at the coat factory. I was unaware they been praying there for many months.
They also talked about the board for the community center to be made from people of many faiths and for the government to investigate and approve all funding. The interesting fact to me was the Muslim developer has a Catholic mother, a Egyptian father, a Christian wife and he works out at Jewish community center where he got the idea. When asked about his relatives and the like, he replied "That's New York city" I would hope that some would say "That's America"

388 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:30:13pm

re: #386 sattv4u2

Okay

We drove to Vermont
Got near the Ben and Jerrys plant
Saw some cows out in the field
It was dusk
We parked, sat, drank beer and waited till dark
Went into the field and tipped two cows over

Was the beer and the decision-making in that order?

Now I'm having ice cream--Breyer's.

389 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:30:52pm

re: #387 avanti

They are showing the Muslim call to prayer at the Pentagon chapel and showing the temporary prayer at the coat factory. I was unaware they been praying there for many months.
They also talked about the board for the community center to be made from people of many faiths and for the government to investigate and approve all funding. The interesting fact to me was the Muslim developer has a Catholic mother, a Egyptian father, a Christian wife and he works out at Jewish community center where he got the idea. When asked about his relatives and the like, he replied "That's New York city" I would hope that some would say "That's America"

I caught the tail-end of it and it was interesting to see that Muslims already pray there. It would be fun to film Gellar watching that scene and get her reaction.

390 avanti  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:32:52pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I caught the tail-end of it and it was interesting to see that Muslims already pray there. It would be fun to film Gellar watching that scene and get her reaction.

Pam would say the prayer was more disrespectful than the strip clubs that are closer.

391 Henchman 25  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:33:01pm

And she will immediately post about about that "hit job" they pulled on her and such.

What a loon.

392 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:33:12pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I caught the tail-end of it and it was interesting to see that Muslims already pray there. It would be fun to film Gellar watching that scene and get her reaction.

Pretty fair chance you'll hear it on Stewart.

393 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:33:19pm

re: #388 Decatur Deb

Was the beer and the decision-making in that order?

Now I'm having ice cream--Breyer's.

Lets see

Me ,, all of 155 lbs

Cows ,, WAY more


You do the beer/ macho math!

394 Henchman 25  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:33:33pm

re: #391 SteelPH

And she will immediately post about that "hit job" they pulled on her and such.

What a loon.

PIMF

395 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #372 ozbloke

Cept the interview I saw said 60% of the viris went to Iran, who has the other 40%?

Viris dont respect much...

Here's your answer....

Symantec's analysis of the code, O Murchu said, shows that nearly 60 percent of the computers infected with Stuxnet are in Iran. An additional 18 percent are in Indonesia. Less than 2 percent are in the U.S.
396 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:34:52pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

Lets see

Me ,, all of 155 lbs

Cows ,, WAY more

You do the beer/ macho math!

I'm told by a farm girl that there's an art to it. (Art=activity with no obvious purpose)

397 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:35:41pm

Later, Lizards.

398 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:38:16pm

re: #390 avanti

Pam would say the prayer was more disrespectful than the strip clubs that are closer.

She could say that, but she's a fool to do so. Of course, since Geller is an utter fool, that's exactly what she'll do. I'm just afraid knowing that will cause someone following her to do something stupid.

399 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:43:49pm

re: #396 Decatur Deb

I'm told by a farm girl that there's an art to it. (Art=activity with no obvious purpose)

There is

A)find a semi or fully sleeping standing cow
B) approach from the side
C) extend arms under it's belly
D) lift and push
E) run like hell

400 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:45:04pm

re: #399 sattv4u2

There is

A)find a semi or fully sleeping standing cow
B) approach from the side
C) extend arms under it's belly
D) lift and push
E) run like hell

Waiting for someone to defend the Flower of Southern Bovine-hood.

401 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:46:12pm

Coulter sure knows how to guarantee sales for her next book. (I know, I'm late)

Will the real Coulter please stand up. (Old game show reference)

402 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:46:43pm

Leaving Your Mark

70 year-old Buddhist monk Hua Chi has been praying in the same spot at his temple in Tongren, China for over 20 years. His footprints, which are up to 1.2 inches deep in some areas, are the result of performing his prayers up to 3000 times a day. Now that he is 70, he says that he has greatly reduced his quantity of prayers to 1,000 times each day.

403 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:49:08pm

re: #402 Killgore Trout

Leaving Your Mark

A Dremel tool would be faster.

404 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:54:10pm

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Thanks Kilgore.

Sounds like a potential disaster may have been averted.

405 Tigger2005  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:56:02pm

re: #284 BongCrodny

Very silly point of reference here, but there was a scene in the Bill Murray comedy "Stripes" where he and Harold Ramis were asked if they were homosexuals.

Hard to believe the writers conjured up that one out of thin air.

Ramis: "No, we're not homosexuals, but we are willing to learn!"
Murray: "Yeah, will they send us someplace special?"

406 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:56:13pm

re: #403 b_sharp

A Dremel tool would be faster.

I LOVE my Dremel tool

However I don;'t know what to do with 85% of the attachments!

407 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:57:34pm

re: #406 sattv4u2

I LOVE my Dremel tool

However I don;'t know what to do with 85% of the attachments!

They're there to play with.

408 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:59:03pm

re: #406 sattv4u2

I LOVE my Dremel tool

However I don;'t know what to do with 85% of the attachments!

Badly constructed sentence

Should be

However, I don't know what 85% of the attachments are for!

409 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:59:25pm

re: #402 Killgore Trout

re: #403 b_sharp

A tradition has girls touch the bronze breast of a statue of Juliette in Verona--it has taken a bright shine.

[Link: www.travelpod.com...]

410 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 5:59:33pm

re: #407 b_sharp

They're there to play with.

How do you think I figured out what the 15% I DO use are for!?!?!

411 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 6:00:16pm

re: #408 sattv4u2

Badly constructed sentence

Should be

However, I don't know what 85% of the attachments are for!

T'it's OK, I understanded.

412 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 6:02:40pm

re: #409 Decatur Deb

re: #403 b_sharp

A tradition has girls touch the bronze breast of a statue of Juliette in Verona--it has taken a bright shine.

[Link: www.travelpod.com...]

Interesting, but I would prefer those ladies bare their breasts to me so I could touch them. (Just to collect data for a scientificy hypothesis)

413 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 6:04:22pm

re: #412 b_sharp

Interesting, but I would prefer those ladies bare their breasts to me so I could touch them. (Just to collect data for a scientificy hypothesis)

That's the difference between "for luck" and "getting lucky".

414 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 7:27:27pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

re: #170 Obdicut

Really ,, you were with me, Mike Merrett, Joey Palermo and Billy Todino that day??

This is shameful, to downding somebody simply because you don't like his eyewitness report.

Policies the world over have been ignored in the field. Just because it was policy to ask doesn't mean that he was asked. You-all have no sufficient grounds to call him a liar.

415 celticdragon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 8:04:45pm

re: #6 _RememberTonyC

Who are you to judge my sense of humor ... Fascist.

As a transgendered woman, I think I might qualify on that score.

Your joke sucked.

416 celticdragon  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 8:06:41pm

re: #11 Gus 802

That's not humor that's perpetuating transphobia. Even if she was a transsexual (which she is not) the end result is that it promotes the acceptance that society can discredit and/or denigrate someone because "they used to be a dude." Ridiculing someone for being transgendered is not acceptable even in the context of the false Coulter meme.

Thank you.

417 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 9:59:32pm

re: #61 jamesfirecat

How do Democrats "Exploit" them exactly just so we're clear...?

By assuming their automatic vote while often doing little to work toward their achieving full civil rights. Sort of the same thing they do with Jews and blacks.

This in no way means that the controlling persons in the Democratic Party are against gays, blacks, and Jews, only that they feel no compulsion to really help them, since they're getting almost all the votes from those groups anyway.

418 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 10:06:46pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Seriously.
Ask what the hell an "assualt weapon" is and you get a lot of different answers.
Besides, forget guns.
Swords>>>Guns.

That depends on the type of sword, the type of gun, the terrain, the expertise of those involved, and the proximity of the warring parties. All things being equal and the terrain open, the gun will win because it has a longer effective range.

419 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 10:18:36pm

re: #244 Obdicut

The biggest headache for me with gun rights is private property; do all private property owners have the right to say "No guns allowed here"-- like, in a bar, a mall, etc?

As far as I know they have that right.

In Ohio, guns in bars are expressly forbidden, not that anyone can really stop a determined person from bringing a concealed weapon in. In Indiana, guns are prohibited in the casinos. Believe me, I can understand both prohibitions.

420 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 10:22:43pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

DADT like so many things the democrats do, was well meaning but in the end sort of fell apart once reality ensued...

It may have been intended as a step in the right direction, but no further step was taken during the Clinton Administration, as you'd expect nothing changed under President Bush, and President Obama, who could change the rules by Executive Order (as President Truman did to desegregate the armed forces in 1948) or by encouraging legislation, has not done so.

I understand that the President has bigger issues with which to deal, but this one could be handled literally in minutes.

421 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 10:37:33pm

re: #159 sattv4u2

1965,, recruiting office in Cambridge Mass,, my sisters gay friend (God rest his soul) signed up so he could go to Vietnam,.,he wasn't "asked"

1972,,, recruiting office in Chelsea Massachusetts,,, me and three friends ,, NON of us were 'asked"

So ,, it may have been a "policy" but it wasn't enforced 100% of the time

:/

422 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Sep 26, 2010 10:39:20pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Nice ,,, it's easy when you're not one of the 2% that pay 45% of the taxes

'TAX THE RICH ,, THEY CAN AFFORD IT"!

Ooh flat tax

423 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 2:25:47am

re: #414 lostlakehiker

He didn't present it as an eyewitness report. He was asked what happened to gays in the military, in general, before DADT. He said "They weren't asked".

424 RogueOne  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 3:41:17am

re: #420 ClaudeMonet

It may have been intended as a step in the right direction, but no further step was taken during the Clinton Administration, as you'd expect nothing changed under President Bush, and President Obama, who could change the rules by Executive Order (as President Truman did to desegregate the armed forces in 1948) or by encouraging legislation, has not done so.

I understand that the President has bigger issues with which to deal, but this one could be handled literally in minutes.

Truman got away with something there. The constitution gives the legislative branch, not the president, the authority to regulate "the land and naval Forces". In this day and age there isn't anyway the president could get away with changing a policy set by the congress with an executive order.

Point of order in this thread, there wasn't a vote to end DADT last week. There was a vote on a defense appropriations bill which included the DADT language, which isn't the same thing. Secondly, the dems have, and still have, enough votes to bring up the issue and get it passed and they've chosen to let it slide for now which effectively ends any chance there will be a change for years.

425 RogueOne  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 3:46:08am

re: #419 ClaudeMonet

As far as I know they have that right.

In Ohio, guns in bars are expressly forbidden, not that anyone can really stop a determined person from bringing a concealed weapon in. In Indiana, guns are prohibited in the casinos. Believe me, I can understand both prohibitions.

As far as I know in Indiana we're allowed to carry in bars. Ohio took a long time to pass a CC law while Indiana has had one forever. That's why hoosiers are so friendly to each other, everyone carries a gun.

426 ClaudeMonet  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 7:30:57am

re: #425 RogueOne

As far as I know in Indiana we're allowed to carry in bars. Ohio took a long time to pass a CC law while Indiana has had one forever. That's why hoosiers are so friendly to each other, everyone carries a gun.

I wasn't sure about carrying weapons in bars in Indiana, hence the wording I used above. I've seen the sign in Ohio bars oh, a few thousand times. ;-)

Since I never carry firearms, I don't really pay attention to the notices.

427 Enlino  Mon, Sep 27, 2010 1:04:42pm

re: #417 ClaudeMonet

By assuming their automatic vote while often doing little to work toward their achieving full civil rights. Sort of the same thing they do with Jews and blacks.

This in no way means that the controlling persons in the Democratic Party are against gays, blacks, and Jews, only that they feel no compulsion to really help them, since they're getting almost all the votes from those groups anyway.

Well, to be fair, it's not as though the democrats are aggressively pursuing their other policies.


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