Wikileaks Staffers Resign in Internal Revolt

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The decision by Wikileaks founder Julian Assange to release hundreds of thousands of classified Iraq War documents has led to a series of high level resignations at Wikileaks, by staffers who believe the documents have not been properly redacted to remove the names of collaborators and informers: Unpublished Iraq War Logs Trigger Internal WikiLeaks Revolt.

A domino chain of resignations at the secret-spilling site WikiLeaks followed a unilateral decision by autocratic founder Julian Assange to schedule an October release of 392,000 classified U.S. documents from the war in Iraq, according to former WikiLeaks staffers.

Key members of WikiLeaks were angered to learn last month that Assange had secretly provided media outlets with embargoed access to the vast database, under an arrangement similar to the one WikiLeaks made with three newspapers that released documents from the Afghanistan war in July. WikiLeaks is set to release the Iraq trove on Oct. 18, according to ex-staffers — far too early, in the view of some of them, to properly redact the names of U.S. collaborators and informants in Iraq.

“The release date which was established was completely unrealistic,” says 25-year-old Herbert Snorrason, an Icelandic university student who until recently helped manage WikiLeaks’ secure chat room. “We found out that the level of redactions performed on the Afghanistan documents was not sufficient. I announced that if the next batch did not receive full attention, I would not be willing to cooperate.”

Assange did not respond to e-mail queries from Wired.com.

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255 comments
1 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:36:45am

Dear Boss, I don't want to go to jail...

2 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:40:05am

I'm glad some people there realized the seriousness of the situation.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:40:47am

This is good news. Wiki Leaks went way over the line. There is no integrity in endangering lives.

Off topic and I am sorry for going OT, but this thread popped up right as I was posting on the last...

I was thinking, not here, but in my mini-blog to start up a maybe weekly, science question/lecture series.

My field, as you know, is physics, so, naturally I would predisposed to write about physics or mathematics.

So two questions:

1. Would you be interested in that?
2. What sorts of topics would you be interested in?

Some potential things I think might be of interest:

So what is entropy anyway, and basic thermodynamics...

Wave/particle duality...

How did QM lead to QED which lead to field theories in general which led to strings...

Chaos theory...

Special relativity (a little more in depth)...

GR and black holes...

All suggestions welcome.

4 Nemesis6  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:42:24am

That's what confused me -- The Julius guy made statements about how the names were censored to protect them, etc, but this wasn't completely the case it seems.

5 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:42:44am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm glad some people there realized the seriousness of the situation.

getting people killed is kinda a deal breaker...

6 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:43:32am

Lives matter, and his staff has this ethics he simply lacks.

7 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:44:31am

re: #1 brookly red

Dear Boss, I don't want to go to jail...

Since he's Australian and did not break the National Security Act in the USA is there legal recourse for this? Blowing the whistle on major bullshit is one thing, but this just seems like an unnecessary vindictive moonbat tantrum.

8 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:44:38am

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

well if you do math hows about a real look at the economy?

9 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:45:34am

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

My suggestion,
As CERN starts to have data-That would be cool. Full power will be interesting I'm sure.

10 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:46:24am

I really really hate reporters who push a story so they can break it first and get the scoop and completely disregard the people behind the story and the problems it can create.

11 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:46:27am

re: #7 ArchangelMichael

Since he's Australian and did not break the National Security Act in the USA is there legal recourse for this? Blowing the whistle on major bullshit is one thing, but this just seems like an unnecessary vindictive moonbat tantrum.

I do believe there are some Australian troops in Afghanistan, no?

12 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:47:19am

re: #1 brookly red

Dear Boss, I don't want to go to jail...

Dear Boss, I don't want to go to jail hell...

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:47:20am

re: #8 brookly red

well if you do math hows about a real look at the economy?

Well that would require the politicians and economists who do economics to agree on certain things - like 2+2 always = 4, negative numbers are different than positive numbers and last but not least, it is impossible to maintain sustained economic growth on a finite planet if the base of your economics are natural resources. If they don't agree on such things, take it up with an astrologer. They are about as scientific.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:48:31am

re: #9 Rightwingconspirator

My suggestion,
As CERN starts to have data-That would be cool. Full power will be interesting I'm sure.

It will be quite some time before LHC starts giving us real data, and then it will be some time before the experimentalists can analyze what they have. I can talk about what makes the LHC the LHC though.

15 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:48:48am

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

Well that would require the politicians and economists who do economics to agree on certain things - like 2+2 always = 4, negative numbers are different than positive numbers and last but not least, it is impossible to maintain sustained economic growth on a finite planet if the base of your economics are natural resources. If they don't agree on such things, take it up with an astrologer. They are about as scientific.

uhhh, does that mean no?

16 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:48:59am

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

it might be a tough sell. I posted a video of particle reactions in a cloud chamber once and there wasn't much interest.
Maybe the latest development at Cern might get some attention.

17 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:50:45am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

it might be a tough sell. I posted a video of particle reactions in a cloud chamber once and there wasn't much interest.
Maybe the latest development at Cern might get some attention.

/Ooooh was Paris Hilton busted at Cern too?

18 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:51:21am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

it might be a tough sell. I posted a video of particle reactions in a cloud chamber once and there wasn't much interest.
Maybe the latest development at Cern might get some attention.

I'm not trying to make a sell, and honestly watered down "what is the cutting edge" talk does people very little good. It's really all a bunch of big words. I was thinking more along the lines of giving some more foundational and conceptual discussions. I think this would help people tell the difference between hokum and science in reporting.

19 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:51:22am

re: #15 brookly red

uhhh, does that mean no?

That's a drawn out way of saying in the real world, economics involves as much psychology as it does math. Since it doesn't follow hard science rules, it might as well be witchcraft to the physicist or mathematician.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:53:18am

‘I am the heart and soul of this organization, its founder, philosopher, spokesperson, original coder, organizer, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, piss off.’

This guy is a sociopath.

His volunteers and employees live in a number of countries with varying laws about official secrets. Most of them, including both Germany and Australia, have troops in Afghanistan. I think a number of staffers have gotten legal advice and decided not to go down that road.

21 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:53:27am

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

That's a drawn out way of saying in the real world, economics involves as much psychology as it does math. Since it doesn't follow hard science rules, it might as well be witchcraft to the physicist or mathematician.

yeah I guess you right... sure glad I bought gold :)

22 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:54:19am

re: #17 brookly red

/Ooooh was Paris Hilton busted at Cern too?

Here is some webcams at CERN... looking at the new "black hole" collider.

[Link: www.cyriak.co.uk...]

23 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:54:19am

re: #18 LudwigVanQuixote

I would think it would be very interesting to have a series dedicated on how discoveries in physics impact every day lives. I think this is often misunderstood. Some real world examples where mankind has progressed due to specific work in physics.

Make it more real so to speak. But, keep your passion. :)

24 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:54:33am

Assanage is no kind of freedom fighter. He's just a goddamn anarchist. He likes throwing lit matches in open gasoline containers to watch them go "boom!"

25 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:55:54am

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm very interested, so long as you keep it in English as much as possible. It's been years since I took calculus, and my one physics course was almost as long ago.

English I can handle. Sometimes.

26 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:56:04am

We can always go OT for an abandoned spaceship, right?

[Link: www.mk.ru...]

27 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:56:14am

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

That's a drawn out way of saying in the real world, economics involves as much psychology as it does math. Since it doesn't follow hard science rules, it might as well be witchcraft to the physicist or mathematician.

On the Nosey!

Much like witchcraft, there are little bits of actual knowledge buried in the discussion (things like the few traditional herbal remedies that work, and or poisons that are known to be poisonous), but for the most part it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo with ill defined concepts, some of which are demonstrably false, yet taken on faith.

28 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:56:20am

good on them for bailing on this stunt

29 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:57:29am

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

On the Nosey!

Much like witchcraft, there are little bits of actual knowledge buried in the discussion (things like the few traditional herbal remedies that work, and or poisons that are known to be poisonous), but for the most part it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo with ill defined concepts, some of which are demonstrably false, yet taken on faith.

*shakes his trickle-down stick at you!*

30 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:57:59am

re: #28 SpaceJesus

good on them for bailing on this stunt

I agree with Space Jesus...

is that on the Mayan Calender?

31 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:58:46am

re: #29 JasonA

*shakes his trickle-down stick at you!*

dude do the works "keep it in your pants" mean anything to you?

32 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 11:59:19am

re: #23 brownbagj

I would think it would be very interesting to have a series dedicated on how discoveries in physics impact every day lives. I think this is often misunderstood. Some real world examples where mankind has progressed due to specific work in physics.

Make it more real so to speak. But, keep your passion. :)

That is a great suggestion.

It is also something that I always circle back to if giving a lecture. The fundamental difference between physics and mathematics is that physics always comes back to describing something in the real world. I am always amused when people say to "keep it real" when talking physics.

This really just means that they do not like the abstractions that allow us to conceptualize the real world and make accurate models. There is nothing more "real", that isn't pure logic or mathematics, in an ontological sense, than hard science.

33 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:00:11pm

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

On the Nosey!

Much like witchcraft, there are little bits of actual knowledge buried in the discussion (things like the few traditional herbal remedies that work, and or poisons that are known to be poisonous), but for the most part it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo with ill defined concepts, some of which are demonstrably false, yet taken on faith.

But enough about global warming... /

ducks and runs from LVQ!

34 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:01:01pm

Did I just hear a scream?

35 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:01:03pm

re: #25 ClaudeMonet

I'm very interested, so long as you keep it in English as much as possible. It's been years since I took calculus, and my one physics course was almost as long ago.

English I can handle. Sometimes.

Thank you and no problem!

Please suggest topics!

36 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:01:54pm

re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you and no problem!

Please suggest topics!

Time travel... the possibilities... closed time-like loops etc?

37 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:01:55pm

re: #34 DaddyG

Did I just hear a scream?

In digital space, no one can hear you scream...

38 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:03:43pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

This is good news. Wiki Leaks went way over the line. There is no integrity in endangering lives.

Off topic and I am sorry for going OT, but this thread popped up right as I was posting on the last...

I was thinking, not here, but in my mini-blog to start up a maybe weekly, science question/lecture series.

My field, as you know, is physics, so, naturally I would predisposed to write about physics or mathematics.

So two questions:

1. Would you be interested in that?
2. What sorts of topics would you be interested in?

Some potential things I think might be of interest:

So what is entropy anyway, and basic thermodynamics...

Wave/particle duality...

How did QM lead to QED which lead to field theories in general which led to strings...

Chaos theory...

Special relativity (a little more in depth)...

GR and black holes...

All suggestions welcome.

I would like to know how to add vector velocities in special relativity. Just to name one odd thing.

39 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:03:51pm

re: #33 DaddyG

But enough about global warming... /

ducks and runs from LVQ!

Did I mention that I recently ordered one of these custom made to my specs from the Zhou Forge?

[Link: www.swordnarmory.com...]

40 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:04:41pm

re: #32 LudwigVanQuixote

I think you are exactly right.

I do believe sometimes people see "physics" as too difficult to comprehend. But, they actually live it every day unknowingly.

Understanding just how "real" physics is to daily life would be helpful to those who don't understand the need for this type of science.

Of course, many folks, if not all at LGF understand this, but getting real world examples out on the intertubes can only help. :)

41 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:04:51pm

re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote

Please suggest topics!

Repost from last thread:

Your analysis of the Ekpyrotic model of the Universe. The comparative weakness of gravity to the other three forces, closed string gravitons leaking into other "branes," etc. Also, QCD and what color superconductivity actually means, what are the consequences in terms of color confinement and asymptotic freedom. An explanation of virtual particles and their role in Hawking radiation.

42 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:04:52pm

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I mention that I recently ordered one of these custom made to my specs from the Zhou Forge?

[Link: www.swordnarmory.com...]

Scuse me while I get my titanium codpiece.

43 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:06:01pm

re: #40 brownbagj

I do believe sometimes people see "physics" as too difficult to comprehend. But, they actually live it every day unknowingly.

Every time I stub my toe on that dang exercise machine I am reminded of the practical application of physics in my every day life!!

44 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:06:36pm

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I mention that I recently ordered one of these custom made to my specs from the Zhou Forge?

[Link: www.swordnarmory.com...]

that is so cool...
that is also why I sawed off a sweet 16...

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:07:53pm
46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:08:28pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

I like facts, they're pretty great

I sure wish Republicans liked facts when it came to taxes

47 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:08:47pm

Some things important to me that you could research:

1. Why, when I want to watch TV is the remote missing?
2. In all of the infinite places to live in the universe, why do I have the neighbors I have?
3. If most research is performed in a vaccum, why isn't Oreck known as a scientific company?

48 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:09:36pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Is Cartesian physics still relevant? Why? Why is this the only physics most people ever learn when special relativity rendered it outdated nearly 100 years ago?

49 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:09:40pm

re: #47 brownbagj
1. Murphy
2. Karma
3. They suck

50 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:10:10pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

So taking into account all taxes (and not just federal income tax like weepy buttholes on Fox News like to beat on) it looks like we're pretty close to a flat tax

America, where the rich get richer and the poor get fucked over and out. As American as apple pie!

I'm poor, and I never feel like I am being fucked by anyone rich.

51 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:10:42pm

re: #47 brownbagj

Some things important to me that you could research:

1. Why, when I want to watch TV is the remote missing?
2. In all of the infinite places to live in the universe, why do I have the neighbors I have?
3. If most research is performed in a vaccum, why isn't Oreck known as a scientific company?

1. check between the cushions on the couch...
2. move
3. they suck

52 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:10:44pm

re: #38 lostlakehiker

I would like to know how to add vector velocities in special relativity. Just to name one odd thing.

That is a great question! Unfortunately, this one is not well suited to general discussion as it is, by nature, a "technical detail" question.

Here is the answer:

Pick the frame of reference you wish to work in.

Boost both vectors to that frame.

Add them normally.

Without an equation editor, I can't easily just write the appropriate transformation matrices for you here. However, you can wiki them or find them in Goldstein, Jackson or any good SR book. If you really want to learn it in general, then Misner Thorne and Wheeler is the book for you. At the end of the day though it is a matter of calculating the proper boost or rotation matrices, applying them to your vectors and just adding them.

53 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:10:47pm

re: #49 DaddyG

I can see 1 and 3. But karma? I am a pretty dang good neighbor. I have to disagree with the findings of your thorough albeit quick research.

54 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:11:27pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

It's all ball bearings these days.

55 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:11:42pm
When he quizzed Assange in an online chat, Assange responded by accusing Domscheit-Berg of leaking information about discontent within WikiLeaks to a columnist for Newsweek.

Read More [Link: www.wired.com...]

He can dish it out but not take it. Irony jackpot this week between this dude and the Segway owner's death.

56 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:11:52pm

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

I'm poor, and I never feel like I am being fucked by anyone rich.

Just because you don't feel the fucking doesn't make it nonexistent, neuropathic numbness is an equally plausible explanation.

57 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:11:59pm

re: #53 brownbagj

I can see 1 and 3. But karma? I am a pretty dang good neighbor. I have to disagree with the findings of your thorough albeit quick research.

you deny your karma you repeat it...

58 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:12:19pm

re: #51 brookly red

3 I can understand. 1 and 2 are solutions not answers...

59 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:12:26pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

Just because you don't feel the fucking doesn't make it nonexistent, neuropathic numbness is an equally plausible explanation.

You have first hand knowledge of that I suspect.

60 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:12:58pm

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

I'm poor, and I never feel like I am being fucked by anyone rich.

I feel it when she pays my rent...

61 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:13:19pm

re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you and no problem!

Please suggest topics!

Some basic thermodynamics might be good. Very applicable in a wide area of topics.

62 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:13:42pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

Just because you don't feel the fucking doesn't make it nonexistent, neuropathic numbness is an equally plausible explanation.


Date rape drugs? This goes deep! (sorry)

63 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:13:53pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

You may recall the dead-thread-AGW-denier troll who claimed the reason Venus has such high surface temps is due to air pressure/mass rather than CO2 in its atmosphere. What's the most effective way to shoot down this kind of baffle-with-BS argument?

64 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:13:54pm

re: #60 brookly red

I feel it when she pays my rent...

What? No one pays my rent. I take care of about 1000 dollars a month in expenses around here.

65 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:13:55pm

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

That would be cool, and a primer on the more exotic particles might be good anyway.

66 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:14:17pm

re: #58 brownbagj

3 I can understand. 1 and 2 are solutions not answers...

you want answers pray, for solutions talk to me...

67 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:14:25pm

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I mention that I recently ordered one of these custom made to my specs from the Zhou Forge?

[Link: www.swordnarmory.com...]

Personally, I prefer a falcata.

68 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:14:26pm

re: #53 brownbagj

I can see 1 and 3. But karma? I am a pretty dang good neighbor. I have to disagree with the findings of your thorough albeit quick research.

Are you taking into account your past lives?

69 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:15:21pm

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

On the Nosey!

Much like witchcraft, there are little bits of actual knowledge buried in the discussion (things like the few traditional herbal remedies that work, and or poisons that are known to be poisonous), but for the most part it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo with ill defined concepts, some of which are demonstrably false, yet taken on faith.

Economists must study a very difficult subject. The moment you've got something figured out, e.g. the "signature" of an impending panic or bubble-bust, people will act on that knowledge, and that messes with the signature.

Microcosm of that: there's this instructive game in which you have a $20 bill that's available to the highest bidder. But the loser of the auction, the immediate runner-up, must forfeit his bid to the auctioneer who put up the $20.

How much should you bid? The answer is, don't bid, unless all the other players have entered into an agreement with you to let your bid win, and you trust them. Otherwise, what will happen, and experiment confirms this, is that the bidding spirals up, ultimately going beyond $20.

After a few rounds of this, people see how the game works, taking into account what others are likely to do, and nobody will bid, or bidding dies down desultorily around $10 or whatever.

Since our economy invents new games constantly, [often, as with various forms of credit, with malice aforethought] the system never reaches an equilibrium, and reliable "physics"-style laws are rare.

Even so, economists do know more than the general public on this matter. Frederic Bastiat's analysis of the economic consequences of a broken window is a classic. Whoever is responsible, there's a classic essay on why erecting tariffs is pretty much the equivalent to blowing a bridge. Either way, beneficial trade is interrupted.

Today's U.S. government is making all sorts of elementary blunders, and the U.S. is not alone in this. For all its limitations, economics deserves more respect than it gets.

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:15:32pm

re: #68 DaddyG

Are you taking into account your past lives?

But everyone prefers instant karma nowadays since it's quicker, and it's going to get you anyways...

71 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:16:17pm

re: #34 DaddyG

Did I just hear a scream?

In space you can only hear your own scream...

72 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:16:52pm

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

What? No one pays my rent. I take care of about 1000 dollars a month in expenses around here.

*sigh* so you learned nothing in Brooklyn...

73 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:17:10pm

re: #61 oaktree

Some basic thermodynamics might be good. Very applicable in a wide area of topics.

The Second Law vs. John Galt's Engine

74 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:17:42pm

re: #71 Rightwingconspirator

In space you can only hear your own scream...

well maybe but it was definitely you that farted...

75 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:18:13pm

re: #74 brookly red

well maybe but it was definitely you that farted...

Heh. True, blew right by your post. Sorry!

76 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:18:17pm

re: #68 DaddyG

Are you taking into account your past lives?

How come everyone who had a past life was Napoleon, or the Queen of Sheba

You never hear anyone say,, yeah ,, in my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper

77 brownbagj  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:19:17pm

re: #68 DaddyG

I have. In my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper.

78 DaddyG  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:19:19pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

How come everyone who had a past life was Napoleon, or the Queen of Sheba

You never hear anyone say,, yeah ,, in my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper

Resume enhancement- we covered that on another thread. /

Its been fun but I gotta take care of some meat life issues!

BBL

79 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:19:24pm

bbl

80 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:19:31pm

re: #72 brookly red

*sigh* so you learned nothing in Brooklyn...

I haven't lived in Brooklyn since 1964. And I'm not sure why you would suggest that I'm being "kept" or something like that. What kind of bullshit is that?

81 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:22pm

re: #80 Walter L. Newton

I haven't lived in Brooklyn since 1964. And I'm not sure why you would suggest that I'm being "kept" or something like that. What kind of bullshit is that?

just playing with you dude... relax

82 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:22pm

re: #63 publicityStunted

You may recall the dead-thread-AGW-denier troll who claimed the reason Venus has such high surface temps is due to air pressure/mass rather than CO2 in its atmosphere. What's the most effective way to shoot down this kind of baffle-with-BS argument?

I'd ask him if he had been there lately...

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:24pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

How come everyone who had a past life was Napoleon, or the Queen of Sheba

You never hear anyone say,, yeah ,, in my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper

Perhaps you don't remember the really boring ones.

84 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:35pm

re: #77 brownbagj

I have. In my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper.

Well,, now I can check that of my list of "things I've never heard!"

85 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:45pm

re: #81 brookly red

just playing with you dude... relax

I didn't think it was funny.

86 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:49pm

re: #38 lostlakehiker

I would like to know how to add vector velocities in special relativity. Just to name one odd thing.

All I want to know is how electricity works, and how come it doesn't really leak out of the outlets?

87 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:20:51pm
Pfc. Bradley Manning, who has been charged with improperly downloading and leaking classified information to WikiLeaks. Manning disclosed to a former hacker in May that he had given WikiLeaks a database covering 500,000 events in the Iraq War between 2004 and 2009. Manning said the database included reports, dates, and latitude and longitude of events, as well as casualty figures.

By the way, because of this a hole, those of us who don't have a security clearance can no longer access UNCLASSIFIED Niprnet while deployed, even to do our JOBS. Nice work piece o human excrement. You've added several dozen layers of bureaucratic bull to the whole security process, slowed our work, put people off the payroll, and created a computer logjam of information.

88 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:21:27pm

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps you don't remember the really boring ones.

I would think that would be rather exciting , and challenging!

89 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:22:31pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

All I want to know is how electricity works, and how come it doesn't really leak out of the outlets?

Stick a fork in one while your feet are in a bucket of water and report your findingSSZZZzzzaaapppp!

90 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:22:32pm

re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you and no problem!

Please suggest topics!

How about what Michael Crichton used for time-travel in that novel "Timeline"? Been awhile since I've read the book, but it involved shrinking people down to sub-atomic levels and having them travel through "quantum foam" or something like that.

That or black holes? That's something that I've been interested in for a while.

91 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:22:57pm

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

I didn't think it was funny.

sorry, but I ain't chopping off my pinky finger over it.

92 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:23:10pm

re: #89 sattv4u2

Stick a fork in one while your feet are in a bucket of water and report your findingSSZZZzzzaaappp!

Yikes.
When I was a kid, my mom kept the outlets covered up with furniture.

So we moved, and all the furniture was out of the house, and I had a key in my hand . . .
Lucky I didn't kill myself.

93 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:23:23pm

re: #77 brownbagj

I have. In my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper.

I'm sure in all my past lives...

I died.

94 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:24:00pm

re: #93 Rightwingconspirator

I'm sure in all my past lives...

I died.

I plan on loving forever

So far,, so good!

95 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:24:28pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

I plan on loving forever

So far,, so good!


Cialis?

96 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:25:52pm

re: #93 Rightwingconspirator

I'm sure in all my past lives...

I died.

I remember being a Golden retriever... I remember sleeping in the driveway... I remember hearing the garage door open... I remember waking up here.

97 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:26:25pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

All I want to know is how electricity works, and how come it doesn't really leak out of the outlets?


I don't know about you. But I put those little foamy things behind them just to be sure. Isn't that why Home Depot sells them?

98 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:26:52pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

I plan on loving forever

So far,, so good!

Conversation with Guru
"So I had to live all those lives to learn all those things, just to end up HERE? "

99 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:27:52pm

re: #97 Escaped Hillbilly

I don't know about you. But I put those little foamy things behind them just to be sure. Isn't that why Home Depot sells them?

Foamy things?
I need to go look for them . . .

100 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:28:10pm

re: #95 Escaped Hillbilly

Cialis?

Maybe if I DO live forever I'll learn how to FRAKKIN TYPE!!!

101 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:29:16pm

re: #98 Rightwingconspirator

Conversation with Guru
"So I had to live all those lives to learn all those things, just to end up HERE? "

hey, learn the sound of the garage door opening...

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:29:32pm

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

103 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:29:37pm

re: #100 sattv4u2

Maybe if I DO live forever I'll learn how to FRAKKIN TYPE!!!

Just keep on loving...I thought it was a sweet post.

104 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:29:45pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

Foamy things?
I need to go look for them . . .

They stop drafts. Interior walls are for the most part hollow and drafts can blow from the basement and/or attic. The "foamy things" block the draft to help save heat/ air conditioning

105 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:29:51pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

Foamy things?
I need to go look for them . . .


My son thinks they're for insulation. Kids!

106 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:30:29pm

re: #103 darthstar

Just keep on loving...I thought it was a sweet post.

Tanks

It was better the way it came out instead of the way I was trying!

107 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:30:52pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

All I want to know is how electricity works, and how come it doesn't really leak out of the outlets?

Also, Fuckin' magnets.

108 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:30:57pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

She must have really liked fish!

109 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:31:30pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

Has it worked?

110 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:31:49pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

Also, Fuckin' magnets.

How do they work?

111 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:31:51pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

If grandma jumps off the kitchen table to grab a sardine its more likely dementia then karma... jusss saying.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:31:54pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

She must have really liked fish!

Big on seafood, big on travel.

My poor grandpa was probably roped into also being a pelican, and is considered weird in the flock for yearning after a well-done steak.

113 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:31:57pm

re: #107 goddamnedfrank

Also, Fuckin' magnets.

Well, I guess if they're attracted to each other. (shrug)

114 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:32:00pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Has it worked?

SFZ will tell you next time she's down by the pier

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:32:04pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Has it worked?

We think so.

116 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:32:36pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

A remarkable bird is the pelican,
His bill can hold more than his belly can,
He can hold more in his beak,
than he can eat in a week,
But I don't know how the hell he can.

117 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:33:16pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

They stop drafts. Interior walls are for the most part hollow and drafts can blow from the basement and/or attic. The "foamy things" block the draft to help save heat/ air conditioning

in these parts foamy things happen to people that don't pay the vig...

it sure ain't pretty.

118 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:33:18pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

We think so.

Just have to keep an eye out for pelicans working out advanced aerobatics and better recoveries for high-speed diving.

119 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:33:33pm

re: #111 brookly red

If grandma jumps off the kitchen table to grab a sardine its more likely dementia then karma... jusss saying.

Great ,, now I want an anchovy pizza for dinner

120 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:33:37pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

I think the most immediately relevant fields would be evolutionary psychology and behavioral neurology.

121 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:34:46pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

Great ,, now I want an anchovy pizza for dinner

Good for you!

122 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:35:31pm

re: #117 brookly red

in these parts foamy things happen to people that don't pay the vig...

it sure ain't pretty.

Bada Bing!

(you forget ,, you're talking to someone who spent a LOT of time in Boston's North End watching the comings and goings of Jerry Angiulo and his brothers)

123 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:35:58pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

Great ,, now I want an anchovy pizza for dinner

do it. do it for grandma!

124 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:37:07pm

re: #123 brookly red

do it. do it for grandma!

Mine,, or SFZ's pelican one,, AND ,,, does SFZ'z grandma now wear briefs!?!?

125 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:37:32pm

re: #122 sattv4u2

Bada Bing!

(you forget ,, you're talking to someone who spent a LOT of time in Boston's North End watching the comings and goings of Jerry Angiulo and his brothers)

then you know the foamy thing is an awful way to go...

Phussssst!

126 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:38:00pm

re: #124 sattv4u2

Mine,, or SFZ's pelican one,, AND ,,, does SFZ'z grandma now wear briefs!?!?

fuck it order the pizza

127 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:38:05pm

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

Repost from last thread:

Your analysis of the Ekpyrotic model of the Universe. The comparative weakness of gravity to the other three forces, closed string gravitons leaking into other "branes," etc. Also, QCD and what color superconductivity actually means, what are the consequences in terms of color confinement and asymptotic freedom. An explanation of virtual particles and their role in Hawking radiation.

Well that's about 5 topics!

The Ekpyrotic model is a mathematical possibility that arose from certain ideas that arose from the mathematics of the higher dimensionality in string theories. It is a type of "top down approach" big to small scale, as opposed to bottom up approach of inflation that arises from field theories.

Part of its features are that it can dispense with magnetic monopoles in an unforced manner.

Unfortunately, any detailed analysis beyond saying that much is unlikely to help. Please remember that I do not have an equation editor for my comments. Also the math involved necessary to say anything more specific is simply not something that the general web world would be able to follow.

My analysis of the idea is, why not? Like so much in cosmology, there is a fundamental lack of the kind of data we would need to begin knocking off the better ideas - and many more fundamental questions, like how much order there must have been in the early universe so that entropy has left anything at all in today's universe - than answers. The idea of higher dimensional collisions of lower dimensional objects is certainly elegant. What those dimensions are, and how the math works is not something I can give over in this format or in three dozen posts.

Color superconductivity is something that comes out of the mathematics of QCD. It is exactly analogous to normal super conductivity - under the right conditions, a phase transition occurs, where it is possible to create Cooper pairs. QCD has interactions that occur based on "color" (another quantum feature of quarks and gluons, and the Chromo in QCD) so color plays a role in this interaction.

What is going to be more useful to you is to look up Cooper pairs and understand them first. Past that, just accept that this is an extension of the idea to the mathematical framework of QCD. One of the things that scientists at RHIC are interested in, is this predicted phenomena. The consequence for asymptotic freedom is that you have entered into a new phase of matter with different properties, in much the same way that ice, a different phase of water, has different properties than steam.

Virtual particles are those particles which carry force. You may have heard that the electromagnetic force is carried by photons. It is virtual photons that do the pulling or pushing. The get the name "virtual" in much the same way that imaginary numbers got the name imaginary. Just like real numbers which are negative don't have square roots, real photons do not have mass. However, QED and other field theories have mechanisms which produce these critters with a mass. They were "virtually" photons...

128 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:39:26pm

re: #125 brookly red

then you know the foamy thing is an awful way to go...

Phussst!

That reminds me of the Far Side about the fish being sent to "sleep with the humans" wearing styrofoam blocks on his tail fin... :)

129 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:39:58pm

Creepy and evil Assange is creepy and evil.

130 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:40:04pm

re: #128 oaktree

That reminds me of the Far Side about the fish being sent to "sleep with the humans" wearing styrofoam blocks on his tail fin... :)

Why does it remind you of that!?!?

//

131 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:42:44pm

re: #129 tradewind

Creepy and evil Assange is creepy and evil.


From the article a little bit paranoid and egomaniacal as well.

132 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:43:16pm

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

You have first hand knowledge of that I suspect.

Somewhat, my Dad can move his legs/feet and can walk, but he can't feel them anymore and is very unsteady as a result. As such he's facing another spinal surgery soon in the hopes of alleviating the condition, luckily our socialist Medicare system will pick up the vast majority of the tab.

133 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:44:25pm

re: #131 Escaped Hillbilly

From the article a little bit paranoid and egomaniacal as well.

But a snappy dresser!
/

134 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:45:10pm

re: #48 Conservative Moonbat

Is Cartesian physics still relevant? Why? Why is this the only physics most people ever learn when special relativity rendered it outdated nearly 100 years ago?

It is very much still relevant.

I will assume by Cartesian you mean Newtonian.

The fact of the matter is that Newton's physics is all the mechanics will ever need to put a man on he moon, calculate most orbits, and figure out golf-balls, motor cars, and tennis.

People have a misguided idea that somehow Newton was wrong. This is simply not so. It turns out that for speeds close to the speed of light, or in intense gravitational fields, his equations need to modified to include relativistic effects. However, if you aren't going at close to the speed of light or dealing with a large gravitational field, those effects are simply too small to matter.

Einstein's equations contain Newton's equations. Newton's equations are a limit of Einstein's in the mathematical sense. They are still there even with Einstein. They will still be there in any future theory.

135 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:47:15pm

re: #134 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but his name is still frickin' arrogant sounding.
/

136 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:48:48pm

re: #120 negativ

I think the most immediately relevant fields would be evolutionary psychology and behavioral neurology.

Well, getting into a pissing war over whose field is the most relevant is certainly not my goal.

However, I will give you a little take on the pecking order....

What is the difference between a physicist and a chemist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations.

What is the difference between a physicist and a biologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations and chemistry.

What is the difference between a physicist and a psychologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations, chemistry and biology.

What is the difference between a physicist and a sociologist or an economist?

A physicist is a scientist.

137 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:49:09pm

re: #105 Escaped Hillbilly

My son thinks they're for insulation. Kids!

You and I are on the same wavelength, here, WRT electricity.
re: #104 sattv4u2

They stop drafts. Interior walls are for the most part hollow and drafts can blow from the basement and/or attic. The "foamy things" block the draft to help save heat/ air conditioning


Heh.
My whole house is drafty.
It's raised from the ground.
It's about 80 years old.
There are drafty spots everywhere; the new windows last year helped a lot, but still . . .

138 garhighway  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:49:30pm

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

I'm poor, and I never feel like I am being fucked by anyone rich.

Here you go:

[Link: www.slate.com...]

139 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:50:51pm

Heh...Hey Charles, there's another hole in Christine O'Donnell's curriculum vitae...her claim that she studied at Claremont Graduate University isn't exactly accurate...she actually studied at Claremont Institute, a right-wing think tank.

And she says she wouldn't lie to Hitler...sheesh.

140 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:51:55pm

re: #133 sattv4u2
Maybe , if you're a fan of the Draco Malfoy look./

141 Jadespring  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:52:44pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

How come everyone who had a past life was Napoleon, or the Queen of Sheba

You never hear anyone say,, yeah ,, in my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper

I got mine read at a party once. (not that I believe it)
Nothing exciting whatsoever. I was some sort of servant, some sort of farmer type, some sort of metal worker type and some sort of nun type.

142 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:52:51pm

re: #137 reine.de.tout
My house built in 1950s. My electric bill is insane. We've put in a new gas furnace and plan to put in on demand water heater. New windows are needed everywhere but front window and new doors and.... It might take a while. But I still love old houses. I think we've discussed this before.

143 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:53:02pm

re: #139 darthstar

Heh...Hey Charles, there's another hole in Christine O'Donnell's curriculum vitae...her claim that she studied at Claremont Graduate University isn't exactly accurate...she actually studied at Claremont Institute, a right-wing think tank.

And she says she wouldn't lie to Hitler...sheesh.

Maybe it depends on whether Jews are involved.

144 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:53:53pm

re: #139 darthstar
She might not. Loooots of people like that helped the storm troopers Ya?

145 Jadespring  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:55:31pm

re: #142 Escaped Hillbilly

My house built in 1950s. My electric bill is insane. We've put in a new gas furnace and plan to put in on demand water heater. New windows are needed everywhere but front window and new doors and... It might take a while. But I still love old houses. I think we've discussed this before.

I live in an old house but it's been updated. However one old farm house I lived in was a real treat to update. The walls were full of straw! Talk about a big mess. :)

146 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:55:49pm

Guys, where is the tip jar at the moment on the page?

147 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:56:25pm

re: #139 darthstar
We might as well decide to give the pols a pass on their lies: Blumenthal lied about going to Vietnam, which ranks right up there with where you studied, IMO, but it's pretty much blown over.
The real headlines will be when some candidate's CV actually checks out.... then I'l be impressed./

148 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:57:15pm

re: #146 prairiefire

Guys, where is the tip jar at the moment on the page?

The "donate" button is below the Amazon banners on the left sidebar.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:59:03pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandmother wanted to be reincarnated as a pelican. She had it all worked out.

150 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 12:59:48pm

re: #138 garhighway

Here you go:

[Link: www.slate.com...]


Good article. I have long said everyone thinks they are middle class. But he leaves out another reason class welfare is a shrinking likelihood. The fact is, even though the people who have most of America's wealth is a small percentage, the old adage is still partly true. A rising tide raises all boats. I ay not raise the equally, but no one in the USA is starving, no one. Even the poorest can eat. We just don't have the kind of starvation and deprevation they have in say, Ethiopia. Still a good article.

151 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:00:01pm

re: #148 Alouette

Thanks. My daughter will not stop yelling at me, it makes it hard to concentrate.

152 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:01:29pm

re: #145 Jadespring
Straw! Who lived there, a little pig? But actually, recently heard this is the new "green" building material. Couple actually built their whole house out of it. I think it was featured on Living With Ed. I could be mistaken which program it was on.

153 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:01:50pm

re: #50 Walter L. Newton

I'm poor, and I never feel like I am being fucked by anyone rich.

Might want to meet my former coworkers with multiple children trying to make it on $1000 a month net, then a kid gets sick, they can't make their copay and they're selling their furniture to afford meds

And then turning on the TV and seeing a smiling Republican tea-party gladhand talking about how they want to repeal what meager health care reform we've passed

America, fuck yeah

154 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:02:16pm

re: #90 commadore183

How about what Michael Crichton used for time-travel in that novel "Timeline"? Been awhile since I've read the book, but it involved shrinking people down to sub-atomic levels and having them travel through "quantum foam" or something like that.

That or black holes? That's something that I've been interested in for a while.

Well time travel just is not going to happen if you mean going back in time.

Though an interesting point... If causality is real, and you could go back in time it would mean that you have no free will.

Why?

Well you can't change history because you didn't - this is the only way out of the grandfather paradox - i.e. you go back in time and clip your grand father - meaning you couldn't go back in time in the first place to kill him, so lived and you were born anyway!

You might say well I wouldn't want to shoot grandpa! OK so say someone else might. Suppose you went back in time to kill Hitler! We can all agree that capping that bastard is worthy. However, say you could, then you never had the reason to go back in time to kill him in the first place. Future you never even heard of him, and he lives!

So you have to conclude that if you go back in time, whatever you do is constrained to not upset causality, and given butterfly effects, that makes your trip completely determined. No free will.

But what about the present then would we have free will here?

Nope. Your grand daughter could come back from your future to visit you. She couldn't change history because she didn't, which means everything that happened in her relative "past" still has to happen in exactly the same way. That would make all free will impossible in all time frames.

Now there are some interesting things about wormholes and orbits of black holes which could be seen as a time machine.

Two big problems, the orbits of a black hole that would act that way are withing the event horizon, so you aren't coming out, and there is no way to make a worm hole without creating negative mass.

155 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:04:07pm

re: #152 Escaped Hillbilly
Wattle n' daub. Old as the hills. Or, in the case of Africa, the plains.

156 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:05:49pm

re: #153 WindUpBird
How's the Obamacare working out for them so far?
Bet they'd trade it for the job stats during the previous administration.

157 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:06:44pm

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, getting into a pissing war over whose field is the most relevant is certainly not my goal.

However, I will give you a little take on the pecking order...

What is the difference between a physicist and a chemist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations.

What is the difference between a physicist and a biologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations and chemistry.

What is the difference between a physicist and a psychologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations, chemistry and biology.

What is the difference between a physicist and a sociologist or an economist?

A physicist is a scientist.

I didn't quite make it clear. Nearly every headline we're likely to see between now and at least 2012 will showcase seemingly inexplicable brain activity on the part of people running for various offices and those who comment on them. Weird tribalism, for example, probably had a survival advantage a long time ago in an environment far, far away. Now, it just makes Pam Geller look unhinged.

158 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:06:59pm

We'll put those down under ideas I would never had come up with;


This story could go into the "San Diego's Dumbest Criminals" file. A Lakeside man goes to visit his son in a Colorado prison and ends up behind bars himself on suspicion of smuggling drugs.

Convicted felon Donald Curtis, 56, was arrested by FBI agents Friday at a Florence, Colo. federal lockup after plotting over a monitored phone with his imprisoned son for two months.

According to an FBI agent's report, Denney planned to smuggle a golf ball-sized chunk of black tar heroin he had wrapped in plastic and hid in his rectum.

Authorities say Denney was going to transfer the drugs by giving his 29-year-old son, who has the same first name, a mouth-to-mouth kiss during a visit.

159 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:07:35pm

Hi Reggie!
Glad to see you're on duty.

160 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:07:37pm

re: #152 Escaped Hillbilly

Straw! Who lived there, a little pig? But actually, recently heard this is the new "green" building material. Couple actually built their whole house out of it. I think it was featured on Living With Ed. I could be mistaken which program it was on.

If you keep it dry and relatively critter free it probably has a fairly good insulation value. Though you can write the whole thing off pretty quick if it catches fire.

Wattle-and-daub was mentioned, but IIRC that's mud mixed with the straw and it tended to "wear" out. Though I expect that was in damper climes where the roofs leaked in any case and you were replacing all the thatch periodically as well.

161 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:07:41pm

re: #156 tradewind

How's the Obamacare working out for them so far?
Bet they'd trade it for the job stats during the previous administration.

No, that would be going backward. Progressives go forward.

162 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:08:00pm

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, getting into a pissing war over whose field is the most relevant is certainly not my goal.

However, I will give you a little take on the pecking order...

What is the difference between a physicist and a chemist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations.

What is the difference between a physicist and a biologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations and chemistry.

What is the difference between a physicist and a psychologist?

The ability to do complicated differential equations, chemistry and biology.

What is the difference between a physicist and a sociologist or an economist?

A physicist is a scientist.


Image: purity.png
On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.

163 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:08:07pm

re: #156 tradewind

The job stats during his last couple of months weren't too hot, were they?

164 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:08:29pm

re: #156 tradewind

How's the Obamacare working out for them so far?
Bet they'd trade it for the job stats during the previous administration.

well that is just cruel mentioning facts & statistics...

165 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:08:55pm

re: #61 oaktree

Some basic thermodynamics might be good. Very applicable in a wide area of topics.

I was thinking that too.

166 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:09:15pm

re: #163 Obdicut

The job stats during his last couple of months weren't too hot, were they?

so do you want to blame or fix?

167 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:09:45pm

re: #157 negativ

I didn't quite make it clear. Nearly every headline we're likely to see between now and at least 2012 will showcase seemingly inexplicable brain activity on the part of people running for various offices and those who comment on them. Weird tribalism, for example, probably had a survival advantage a long time ago in an environment far, far away. Now, it just makes Pam Geller look unhinged.

That is an interesting point.

:)

I hope you realize my post was tongue in cheek!

168 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:10:17pm

re: #162 negativ

Image: purity.png
On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.

Touche!

169 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:10:31pm

re: #154 LudwigVanQuixote

Well time travel just is not going to happen if you mean going back in time.

Though an interesting point... If causality is real, and you could go back in time it would mean that you have no free will.

Why?

Well you can't change history because you didn't - this is the only way out of the grandfather paradox - i.e. you go back in time and clip your grand father - meaning you couldn't go back in time in the first place to kill him, so lived and you were born anyway!

You might say well I wouldn't want to shoot grandpa! OK so say someone else might. Suppose you went back in time to kill Hitler! We can all agree that capping that bastard is worthy. However, say you could, then you never had the reason to go back in time to kill him in the first place. Future you never even heard of him, and he lives!

So you have to conclude that if you go back in time, whatever you do is constrained to not upset causality, and given butterfly effects, that makes your trip completely determined. No free will.

But what about the present then would we have free will here?

Nope. Your grand daughter could come back from your future to visit you. She couldn't change history because she didn't, which means everything that happened in her relative "past" still has to happen in exactly the same way. That would make all free will impossible in all time frames.

Now there are some interesting things about wormholes and orbits of black holes which could be seen as a time machine.

Two big problems, the orbits of a black hole that would act that way are withing the event horizon, so you aren't coming out, and there is no way to make a worm hole without creating negative mass.

While effecting change would seem to be an impossibility under current understanding of time travel, the ability to observe and gather information thru the ability would be more than worthwhile.

170 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:10:45pm

re: #166 brookly red

so do you want to blame or fix?

Tradewind apparently wants to blame the crash of the economy on Obama. It's kind of funny.

Apparently you'd like to join him.

171 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:11:18pm

re: #161 prairiefire
So let me get this straight: Unemployment rate of 10% ( first year of Obama) is preferable to 6% ( the highest rate during the last adminstration).
Check.

172 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #171 tradewind

So let me get this straight: Unemployment rate of 10% ( first year of Obama) is preferable to 6% ( the highest rate during the last adminstration).
Check.

Heh. Wow. That's some incredibly disingenuous weirdness.

The unemployment figures are high because of the financial meltdown. Which started before Obama took office. Yet you're comfortable blaming him for it.

What a load.

173 sagehen  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:13:51pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Everybody loves space.

Isn't there all kinds of new data coming out of JPL analysis of Spirit data, and stuff from the hubbel and so on? And as the US space program goes into idle, other countries are doing stuff, and the private sector is doing stuff -- there'll be tons of material to work with.

Plus, you'd have a built-in excuse to post lots of super neat-o keen-o pictures.

174 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:14:06pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

While effecting change would seem to be an impossibility under current understanding of time travel, the ability to observe and gather information thru the ability would be more than worthwhile.

Now that is a good question. Let's say you could make a wormhole (or hyperspace or whatever) and it dumped you out seventy light years away. You could listen to every radio report on WW2.

175 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:14:13pm

re: #171 tradewind

So let me get this straight: Unemployment rate of 10% ( first year of Obama) is preferable to 6% ( the highest rate during the last administration).
Check.

No, repairing our dilapidated and antiquated health care system is more important! Now, you come back at me with "Ha! You would rather have millions of people starve", or some other bloody shirt.

It is quiet now, my girl is reading "Lord Of The Flies." She should find it familiar.

176 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:15:11pm

re: #170 Obdicut
Obdi, if you think it's Republicans and conservatives who are now blaming Obama for the lack of a recovery, you're not paying attention. (By the way... today, the CBO came out and said ' leave Dubya's tax cuts in place ').
No president can actually have a huge impact on the economy at any point in time, but that's not the change we were told to hope for. And the recession was all Dubya's fault, according to POTUS, so since we're nearly two years out, things should really be looking up.

177 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:15:14pm

re: #164 brookly red

well that is just cruel mentioning facts & statistics...

As usual, no facts and statistics were provided. We're kind of used to this.

178 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:15:24pm

re: #154 LudwigVanQuixote

How Crichton wrote it was pretty interesting, in that there are actually multiple universes that have been created either before or after a certain point in time in our universe. For instance, if we go with Crichton's view on time travel in Timeline, if we go back to, say, 1939, we would actually be going to a different universe's 1939 instead of our 1939, and any action done in that universe's 1939 (like, say, kill Hitler) would only affect that universe, not ours. However, Crichton did have this idea that what happened in that universe would have some affect in all universes. Not sure how to better address it, but here's the Wikipedia entry on it:
Multiverse Theory

Might be way off from what you know of and off of the topic at hand, but interesting none the less.

179 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:16:33pm

Ok let's do this by vote for my first science "lecture" post:

Click this up if you want thermodynamics, the basics of it for your own understanding, and how people who deny evolution and AGW consistently get it wrong - explained in a way that would allow you to eviscerate any of them you meet.

180 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:16:41pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Heh. Wow. That's some incredibly disingenuous weirdness.

The unemployment figures are high because of the financial meltdown. Which started before Obama took office. Yet you're comfortable blaming him for it.

What a load.

The talking points she's using don't include inconvenient facts such as who was president when the financial meltdown occurred.

181 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:16:52pm

re: #158 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That is... I don't know what it is. Gross? Weird? Stupid? It would have gone from his anus to his son's mouth? Ok.

182 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:16:58pm

Click this up if you want black holes, wormholes and such.

183 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:17:04pm

Atheists, Jews most informed about world's faiths: US poll

Christians in the United States are less knowledgeable about the world's religions than are non-believers and practitioners of other faiths, according to a poll published Tuesday.

The survey, which tested respondents' knowledge of the tenets, histories and leading figures of major religions, found that atheists and agnostics scored highest, followed by Jews and Mormons.

Performing less well were evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics -- who combined form a large majority of Americans -- according to the survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

184 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:17:17pm

Click this up if you want basic QM.

185 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:17:34pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Tradewind apparently wants to blame the crash of the economy on Obama. It's kind of funny.

Apparently you'd like to join him.

No I actually blame the government, party is irrelevant.

186 sagehen  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:18:05pm

re: #38 lostlakehiker

I would like to know how to add vector velocities in special relativity. Just to name one odd thing.

um... may I ask why?

187 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:19:53pm

re: #177 Stanley Sea

As usual, no facts and statistics were provided. We're kind of used to this.

why do you always say We're as if you speak for others? Ahhhh yes, but of course you do.

188 Bear  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:21:51pm

re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote

Thermo.

189 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:22:32pm

re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Personally, I prefer a falcata.

Cleaving is very effective. I prefer cut and thrust.

190 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:22:48pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Atheists, Jews most informed about world's faiths: US poll


Yeah, I kinda felt all proud about that until I read a few of the questions. I don't know where they find so many stupid people for these polls but every time... I mean really, you don't know the Dalai Lama is Buddhist or Jesus was born in Bethlehem? Gah.

191 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:23:48pm

OK it looks like thermo is winning. I will get to it. Look for a long post in the next few days.

192 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:23:59pm

re: #176 tradewind

Obdi, if you think it's Republicans and conservatives who are now blaming Obama for the lack of a recovery, you're not paying attention.

I'm saying you are, right now. Because you were. And it's stupid.

By the way... today, the CBO came out and said ' leave Dubya's tax cuts in place

Really? I see them saying this:


options aimed at assisting households would spur demand for goods and services to varying degrees and thereby boost production to varying degrees. Because businesses’decisions on investing and hiring depend on the demand for their products, higher demand and production would lead to more investment and hiring. The size of those effects would depend largely on which households got the money. Policies that would temporarily increase the after��tax income of people who are relatively well off would probably have little effect on their spending, but policies that increased the resources of families with lower income, few assets, and poor credit would probably have a larger impact on their spending. Because of the extent of job losses and declines in asset prices in this recession, more families probably have those attributes now than was the case in the immediate aftermath of many previous recessions.

I also see them saying this:

The final option that CBO studied for the January report was a oneyear deferral of the increase in income taxes scheduled to occur in 2011, combined with an increase in the exemption amounts for the AMT for 2010 and 2011. CBO estimated that this option would have a small effect on the economy per dollar of budgetary cost because only a fraction of such a tax cut would probably be spent. CBO focused on the effects of policy options during 2010 and 2011, and most of this tax cut would not occur until halfway through that period. If CBO updated those estimates today and examined the impact during the 2011–2012 period, a temporary across��the��board reduction in income taxes would have a larger effect per dollar of budgetary cost but would still, by that measure, significantly trail most of the other options studied.

So where are you getting that they recommending keeping the tax cuts in place?

193 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:24:11pm

re: #163 Obdicut
6.7% ( November 2008 rate) doesn't look too shabby in comparison.

194 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:25:11pm

re: #189 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cleaving is very effective. I prefer cut and thrust.

ewww nasty... ever been in a real fight?

195 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:26:41pm

re: #192 Obdicut
I don't think any one president can have as great an effect on the economy as Obama promised.
And now Democrats are running from him in droves. It's not the mean Republicans who are realizing he's not the one they were waiting for.... it's the previously hopeful.

196 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:27:10pm

re: #191 LudwigVanQuixote

OK it looks like thermo is winning. I will get to it. Look for a long post in the next few days.

I presume you'll do a side page and then put up a comment linking to it in a couple of the current threads?

197 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:27:41pm

re: #195 tradewind

So you're not going to bother to actually defend your assertion at all?

198 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:28:34pm

re: #189 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Cleaving is very effective. I prefer cut and thrust.

Many falcata had at least a portion of the top of the blade sharpened as well to allow that form of attack as well.

199 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:30:17pm

re: #181 Escaped Hillbilly

That is... I don't know what it is. Gross? Weird? Stupid? It would have gone from his anus to his son's mouth? Ok.

From his anus to his mouth, then to his son's mouth.

Yeah, I think thats a plan with some serious flaws in it.

200 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:31:02pm

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Many falcata had at least a portion of the top of the blade sharpened as well to allow that form of attack as well.

Cool. ever really danced with a blade in your hand?

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:31:16pm

re: #194 brookly red

ewww nasty... ever been in a real fight?

Not with a sword. No sane person would ever want to be either.

I am a champion fencer though and I have studied much kendo. I can tell you right now that a "real" sword fight lasts seconds and ends up with someone dead or dying.

Look at about three minutes to see that someone with terrible form, using an OK blade can cut through a head.

202 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:31:17pm

re: #193 tradewind

6.7% ( November 2008 rate) doesn't look too shabby in comparison.

What was shabby was the fact that the economy was melting down in October 2008.

203 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:32:24pm

re: #196 oaktree

I presume you'll do a side page and then put up a comment linking to it in a couple of the current threads?

That is my plan. It will take some time to type. Fortunately, I have already typed a bunch on thermo here so I can dig up some older posts as base material..

204 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:32:57pm

re: #200 brookly red

Cool. ever really danced with a blade in your hand?

Sentry removal drills with a bayonet and rifle bayonet practice.

205 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:33:23pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

Not with a sword. No sane person would ever want to be either.

I am a champion fencer though and I have studied much kendo. I can tell you right now that a "real" sword fight lasts seconds and ends up with someone dead or dying.


[Video]

Look at about three minutes to see that someone with terrible form, using an OK blade can cut through a head.

No I just wondered cause I live in the inner city and sometimes have to walk the walk... it's all good.

206 Stanghazi  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:33:26pm

Here's the graph provided by the CBO

Image: cbotaxcutseconomy.png

take a peek!

207 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:33:30pm

re: #154 LudwigVanQuixote

Well time travel just is not going to happen if you mean going back in time.

Though an interesting point... If causality is real, and you could go back in time it would mean that you have no free will.

So what about in a situation where you create a wormhole (presumably using some kind of Clarketech to stretch open a micro-wormhole created 'naturally' by QG) and drag one end of the wormhole to Alpha Centauri at .5c. Then you create another wormhole there and drag one end of it back to Earth at .5c. This would effectively be a time machine, at least back to the point of the original creation of the wormhole.

How would casualty slam this door shut so you can't go through and stop yourself from leaving in the first place?

208 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:34:20pm

re: #204 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sentry removal drills with a bayonet and rifle bayonet practice.

but really up close & personal ?

209 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:35:33pm

re: #206 Stanley Sea

Ah. So they're flat-out saying that they'd hurt. Great.

That's what we need.

CBO Director Doug Elmendorf testified before the Senate Budget Committee today and dropped something of a bombshell. Extending the Bush tax cuts, he said, will "probably reduce income relative to what would otherwise occur in 2020." The reason is simple: Debt.

Elmendorf doesn't deny that tax cuts stimulate the economy. But they don't stimulate it that much, he says, and over the long run, the net economic growth from the tax cuts will be quite small. The net deficit impact won't be. "Lower tax revenues increase budget
deficits and thereby government borrowing," Elmendorf said, "which crowds out investment, while lower tax rates increase people’s saving and work effort; the net effect on economic activity depends on the balance of those forces."

So, Trade, care to say why you completely misrepresented the position of the CBO? Intentional, or do you just have no clue what you're talking about?

210 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:36:34pm

re: #197 Obdicut
Sorry.... was not the CBO, another economic advisory group.
Hate it you had to go to all that trouble.

211 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:38:03pm

re: #208 brookly red

but really up close & personal ?

Nah, never had to. A few fist fights, but if anything got serious, I get to running. I don't want to end up in the hospital or jail.

212 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:38:16pm

re: #184 LudwigVanQuixote
Where's the basic BS option?/
(Oh , stop..... just too tempting).

213 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:38:18pm

re: #210 tradewind

Sorry... was not the CBO, another economic advisory group.
Hate it you had to go to all that trouble.

Oh, no trouble whatsoever. I'm glad to cite that the CBO is recommending not continuing the Bush tax cuts-- with the very sage reminder that we have a debt we need to pay-- and that the most stimulating things we can do for the economy are provide assistance to the unemployed and others at the lower end of the income scale, and that the least effective moves we can make are those that benefit the upper income classes.

Now, can you cite which other economic advisory group it was that you were trying to pass off as the CBO?

214 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:39:13pm

re: #211 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah, never had to. A few fist fights, but if anything got serious, I get to running. I don't want to end up in the hospital or jail.

Points for honesty... its not fun & its not something to be proud of.

215 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:39:53pm

re: #166 brookly red
No need to choose..... they want to fix blame./

216 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:41:23pm

re: #214 brookly red

Points for honesty... its not fun & its not something to be proud of.

Best self defense class I had was how to use your environment to distract opponents and allow you to run like hell. It aint cool, but it works.

217 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:41:49pm

re: #215 tradewind

No need to choose... they want to fix blame./

I know what it is dude.

218 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:42:01pm

re: #207 ArchangelMichael

So what about in a situation where you create a wormhole (presumably using some kind of Clarketech to stretch open a micro-wormhole created 'naturally' by QG) and drag one end of the wormhole to Alpha Centauri at .5c. Then you create another wormhole there and drag one end of it back to Earth at .5c. This would effectively be a time machine, at least back to the point of the original creation of the wormhole.

How would casualty slam this door shut so you can't go through and stop yourself from leaving in the first place?

First off, why would you go back to the time of the original wormhole? Why is that inherently the case?

Second of all, you used the phrase "using quantum gravity."

I promise that if I ever get the proper picture of QG in mind, after the paper to Nature or PRL, I will write about it here, (after my trip to Sweeden).

219 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:43:02pm

re: #211 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Discretion is still the better part of valor, and especially in bad neighborhoods at night.

220 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:44:21pm

re: #216 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Best self defense class I had was how to use your environment to distract opponents and allow you to run like hell. It aint cool, but it works.

well you can't run from your neighborhood. or your family. or your block... sometimes you just have to do it.

221 tradewind  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:44:26pm

re: #213 Obdicut
Yeah, when I find it.
I'm sure you'll be here when I get back.

222 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:45:27pm

re: #221 tradewind

Any particular reason you got 'confused' and thought it was the CBO-- which is in fact recommending the exact opposite of what you claimed?

223 sagehen  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:45:43pm

re: #154 LudwigVanQuixote

Well time travel just is not going to happen if you mean going back in time.

Though an interesting point... If causality is real, and you could go back in time it would mean that you have no free will.

Why?

Well you can't change history because you didn't - this is the only way out of the grandfather paradox - i.e. you go back in time and clip your grand father - meaning you couldn't go back in time in the first place to kill him, so lived and you were born anyway!

If you were a true Stargate fan, you'd "know" that you can go back in time, change things, and that creates a whole new divergent timeline where what you just did had always happened.

224 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:47:04pm

re: #220 brookly red

well you can't run from your neighborhood. or your family. or your block... sometimes you just have to do it.

So far, I've avoided getting into knife fights with my wife and kids, though I think I'll need to keep a closer eyes on the kids, and my wife does have that Japanese ninja gene in her background.

Hmm, looks like I'll need to beef up the wire emplacements and booby traps around my work room just to be safe.

225 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:48:37pm

re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So far, I've avoided getting into knife fights with my wife and kids, though I think I'll need to keep a closer eyes on the kids, and my wife does have that Japanese ninja gene in her background.

Hmm, looks like I'll need to beef up the wire emplacements and booby traps around my work room just to be safe.

You just need a machine that converts some of your WH40K stuff to full size, proper materials, and operational status...

226 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:49:03pm

re: #225 oaktree

You just need a machine that converts some of your WH40K stuff to full size, proper materials, and operational status...

You're assuming I don't?

227 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:49:44pm

re: #222 Obdicut

Any particular reason you got 'confused' and thought it was the CBO-- which is in fact recommending the exact opposite of what you claimed?

Because CBO sounds more authoritative than The Cato Institute.

228 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:49:45pm

re: #226 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're assuming I don't?

Yep. Otherwise there would have already been news reports.

229 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:49:55pm

re: #222 Obdicut

Any particular reason you got 'confused' and thought it was the CBO-- which is in fact recommending the exact opposite of what you claimed?

There's a lot of misinformation out there. Right wing blogs, think tanks and Fox news will report inverted realities and not everybody knows enough to ignore what they say.

230 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:50:09pm

re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So far, I've avoided getting into knife fights with my wife and kids, though I think I'll need to keep a closer eyes on the kids, and my wife does have that Japanese ninja gene in her background.

Hmm, looks like I'll need to beef up the wire emplacements and booby traps around my work room just to be safe.

no, I just get tired of suburban drill instructors who get off on giving advice as to how to handle "the street "... you live it or you don't.

231 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:50:26pm

OT: Wish I'd had my camera ready a moment ago as Air Force One just flew over my house on final to land here in Madison. The President is here for a campaign stop and you can take that however you wish.

I'm just reminded how good a symbol of America Air Force One really is. Beautiful plane.

232 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:51:44pm

re: #138 garhighway

Here you go:

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Well, what a piece of shit article. Basically it's assuming that since there are poor people who are not marching in the streets, and because it appears that the Democrats may be fixing to loose a lot of power in Washington, ergo, the poor people who are not sucking up to the teats of the left are stupid.

Typical progressive spin, call the citizens stupid.

ne possible answer is sheer ignorance. People know we're living in a time of growing income inequality, Krugman told me, but "the ordinary person is not really aware of how big it is."

Typical Krugman. He's spent most of his career telling how right he is, and every time he steps in his own shit, then it's all of US who are ignorant.

I'm glad your happy and resigned in believing that you are ignorant. Drool, enjoy, have a ball.

Meanwhile, I take care of myself.

234 Kragar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:54:46pm

re: #228 oaktree

Yep. Otherwise there would have already been news reports.

Secret weapons!

236 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:56:08pm

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

Now, where did all of this debt come from.

You didn't chip in your $20.

237 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:57:10pm

Yeah, nothing but good can come out of the growing income gap. At worst it is best ignored since the backbone of America will be a tiny wealthy class which will rule America in a growing system of oligarchy. It's the American way too to have the super rich and the corporation run everything and hoard all of their wealth.

//

238 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:58:56pm

re: #236 Obdicut

You didn't chip in your $20.

Sorry Charlie, no cigar. I pay all of my taxes, always have, never cheated a penny, and the few times in my life when I got upside by making stupid judgements, and wound up owing taxes that I didn't have the money for, I paid through the nose in arranged payment plans with the IRS.

239 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:00:15pm

re: #218 LudwigVanQuixote

First off, why would you go back to the time of the original wormhole? Why is that inherently the case?

Second of all, you used the phrase "using quantum gravity."

I promise that if I ever get the proper picture of QG in mind, after the paper to Nature or PRL, I will write about it here, (after my trip to Sweeden).

Create a wormhole at t = 0. Drag one end of it at 0.5c 4.26 LY away. The wormhole gets to AC at t = 8.52 y, but the wormholes frame of reference the journey being dragged to AC only took 7.38 years. So you travel through the worm one from Earth to AC, you go back in time 1.14 years. Since any trip outside the wormhole back to earth will take at least 4.26 years, there's no casualty violation possible.

So at tearth = 8.52y and tAC = 7.38y, you go back to Earth through that same worm hole... you go forward in time by 1.14s back to "normal". No time travel occurs that can result in universe destroying paradoxes..... BUT

if at tearth = 8.52y and tAC = 7.38y, you decide to drag another wormhole originating at AC back to Earth at .5c, the time at each end of that wormhole would be tearth = 14.76y and tAC= 15.90y.

If you travel through both holes in a loop fashion, each time you go through you end up back in time by 1.14 years. 4 complete cycles (I think) through this network and you end up back at the point when it was created.

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:00:51pm

re: #213 Obdicut

Oh, no trouble whatsoever. I'm glad to cite that the CBO is recommending not continuing the Bush tax cuts-- with the very sage reminder that we have a debt we need to pay-- and that the most stimulating things we can do for the economy are provide assistance to the unemployed and others at the lower end of the income scale, and that the least effective moves we can make are those that benefit the upper income classes.

Now, can you cite which other economic advisory group it was that you were trying to pass off as the CBO?

This seems like unbelievably simple and easy to understand logic

But paraboid anti-government MUH TAXES ideology trumps all

241 shutdown  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:01:09pm

re: #233 sagehen

uh... not quite

CBO Director Doug Elmendorf testified before the Senate Budget Committee today and dropped something of a bombshell. Extending the Bush tax cuts, he said, will "probably reduce income relative to what would otherwise occur in 2020." The reason is simple: Debt.

A permanent extension of Bush-era tax cuts would provide a temporary boost to the U.S. economy and then become a drag on growth by pushing up interest rates, the head of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said.

Today, Elmendorf made two key points before Conrad's panel: one will be used by Republicans to argue for a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts; and the other will be used by Democrats to argue for letting Bush's high-income cuts expired. Both will, of course, bolster Conrad's argument for his own compromise position on tax cuts.

Regardless of whether the tax cuts are extended or not, consumers spending will not increase (ultimately driving up rates) unless confidence is restored. That is - to me - a far more important discussion than taxes. When I was confident in future growth, stability, and my earning prospects, I spent in absolute terms and proportionately more of my post tax income than I do now. That will not change with lower taxes; more net income will simply drive up net savings and increase investment in government securities (driving prices up and rates down).

242 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:01:22pm

re: #237 Gus 802

Yeah, nothing but good can come out of the growing income gap. At worst it is best ignored since the backbone of America will be a tiny wealthy class which will rule America in a growing system of oligarchy. It's the American way too to have the super rich and the corporation run everything and hoard all of their wealth.

//

It's a prerequisite to lick the boots of the super rich before one is allowed to have bootstraps of their very own to pull themselves up by.

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:09pm

haha I see tradewind is making shit up again


It's nice having a couple wingnuts around, keeps things spicy

244 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:20pm

re: #242 goddamnedfrank

It's a prerequisite to lick the boots of the super rich before one is allowed to have bootstraps of their very own to pull themselves up by.

I feel sorry for you if you have had to jump through all those hoops. It must have hurt.

245 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:23pm

re: #242 goddamnedfrank

It's a prerequisite to lick the boots of the super rich before one is allowed to have bootstraps of their very own to pull themselves up by.

We are not worthy!

Coming up next! Embracing colonialism.

/

246 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:04:14pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

This may as a come huge shock to you, Walter, but I wasn't actually saying that you hadn't chipped in $20, and that that was the cause.

What do you think the sum total causes of the debt were?

Here's something that may help:

Image: chart-of-the-day-bush-policies-deficits-june-2010.gif

247 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:04:54pm

"I live on a fixed income and in Section 8 housing. Some wealthy real estate investor bough my building and will turn them into condos. But I realize that it's for the greater good since as Americans, we are here to serve the wealthy elite and it if for the betterment of the capitalist collective."

//

248 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:06:23pm

So when do we start making movies where the robber barons are the heroes and the sweat shop organizers are the villains?

Down with the 40 hour work week!

249 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:07:34pm

Just say no to payed holidays and vacations!

Down with health care benefits and retirement plans!

/

250 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:12:14pm

re: #239 ArchangelMichael

The problem you have is exactly analogous to the twin paradox in the sense that why can't the twin who aged and went on the trip, calculate from his frame of reference, that he stood still and his brother on Earth rushed away from him?

The answer is that the twin on the ship had to turn around. That acceleration makes all the difference in the mathematics.

Even if you make the turn around instantaneous and ignore it, the issues with simultaneity (difference between a return trip coming towards Earth vs. going away, break the symmetry.

So you have a wormhole where the mouth of the worm hole aged only 7 years. So what? You had to accelerate it to get to AC, and AC is 8.52 years older when you get there.

Create a wormhole at t = 0. Drag one end of it at 0.5c 4.26 LY away. The wormhole gets to AC at t = 8.52 y, but the wormholes frame of reference the journey being dragged to AC only took 7.38 years. So you travel through the worm one from Earth to AC, you go back in time 1.14 years. Since any trip outside the wormhole back to earth will take at least 4.26 years, there's no casualty violation possible.

So at tearth = 8.52y and tAC = 7.38y, you go back to Earth through that same worm hole... you go forward in time by 1.14s back to "normal". No time travel occurs that can result in universe destroying paradoxes... BUT

if at tearth = 8.52y and tAC = 7.38y, you decide to drag another wormhole originating at AC back to Earth at .5c, the time at each end of that wormhole would be tearth = 14.76y and tAC= 15.90y.

If you travel through both holes in a loop fashion, each time you go through you end up back in time by 1.14 years. 4 complete cycles (I think) through this network and you end up back at the point when it was created.

251 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:12:32pm

The working poor and middle class don't pay enough in taxes. In fact, the wealthy pay a disproportionate amount in taxes to sustain the lives of a class of people that did not take personal responsibility to enrich their lives. We must instead raise the taxes of the poor and middle class and lower it for the rich. For it is when the rich have more wealth that they will then bestow their great American charity known throughout the world and pay them more for their labor!

//

252 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:32pm

re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote

Clarification

The problem you have is exactly analogous to the twin paradox in the sense that why can't the twin who aged slowly and went on the trip, calculate from his frame of reference, that he stood still and his brother on Earth rushed away from him?

The answer is that the twin on the ship had to turn around. That acceleration makes all the difference in the mathematics.

Even if you make the turn around instantaneous and ignore it, the issues with simultaneity (difference between a return trip coming towards Earth vs. going away, break the symmetry.

So you have a wormhole where the mouth of the worm hole aged only 7 years. So what? You had to accelerate it to get to AC, and AC is 8.52 years older when you get there.

253 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:24:23pm

re: #252 LudwigVanQuixote

This is basically what I was trying to get at, but I was under the impression it could also occur when there were cycles in a network of wormholes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

254 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 9:22:56pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

How come everyone who had a past life was Napoleon, or the Queen of Sheba

You never hear anyone say,, yeah ,, in my past life my job was to separate fly shit from pepper

Everyone else was a general, or a king, or an emperor, or a princess, or something like that.

I was #4 in a cavalry troop. I held the horses during dismounted action and shoveled shit the rest of the time.

255 garhighway  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:28:45am

re: #156 tradewind

How's the Obamacare working out for them so far?
Bet they'd trade it for the job stats during the previous administration.

Actually, I think they would, because would mean they have the power to alter the laws of the universe in ways that are to their advantage. Who wouldn't want to be able to alter the laws of time and space at will? I would.

But in THIS universe, where those laws are immutable so that the choice is impossible, I am guessing that they think, as I do, that HCR was and is a good idea.


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