The Grand Old Tea Party

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A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found that 71% of Republicans are Tea Party supporters, which should come as no surprise. The Tea Party “movement” has been largely an astroturf operation from the very beginning, a way to legitimize the far right of the GOP. And it’s worked, as you can see from the current crop of GOP candidates.

The mainstream Republican Party is out of ideas and stuck on stupid, and into this gap the extremists have ridden: the John Birch Society, fundamentalist religious groups of all kinds, Ron Paul and his legions of weird followers, Alex Jones, etc. They’ve been there all along, but now they’re in their heyday, dictating their throwback ideas to an enervated Republican Party that has no leaders with the moral courage to stand up to them.

The tea party has emerged as a potent force in American politics and a center of gravity within the Republican Party, with a large majority of Republicans showing an affinity for the movement that has repeatedly bucked the GOP leadership this year, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

In the survey, 71% of Republicans described themselves as tea-party supporters, saying they had a favorable image of the movement or hoped tea- party candidates would do well in the Nov. 2 elections.

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387 comments
1 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:03:49am

Eisenhower is weeping.

Even Nixon is trying to sidle away.

2 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:07:41am

I credit the Tea Party as one of the major reasons I switched to Independent after being a Republican for about 20 years.

3 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:07:50am

re: #1 sagehen

Eisenhower is weeping.

Even Nixon is trying to sidle away.

Outside of issues related to his paranoia, Nixon was surprisingly sane and mainstream. I feel badly for the last, desperate exponents of "Rockefeller" republicanism.

4 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:09:04am

From the link:

The GOP now holds a three-point edge, 46% to 43%, when likely voters are asked which party they would prefer to control Congress. That is down from a nine-point Republican lead a month ago.

Maybe that trend will continue.

One beneficiary could be former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who is viewed positively by about two-thirds of tea-party supporters, making her more popular in the movement than other potential presidential candidates included in the new survey.

Then there's that.

5 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:09:17am

re: #1 sagehen

Eisenhower is weeping.

Even Nixon is trying to sidle away.

Or he's awaiting his robot body getting its armament packs reloaded...

6 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:09:58am

re: #5 oaktree

Or he's awaiting his robot body getting its armament packs reloaded...

I like Futurama references!

7 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:10:22am

re: #6 imp_62

I like Futurama references!

Brought to you by Charleston Chew! :D

8 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:10:28am

I have a great idea for both parties: Leaders lead. Quit listening to polls anmd which way the wind blows. Have convictions, ya might win something.

9 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:12:23am

Have you read Matt Taibbi's article in The Rolling Stone? It's brutal.

10 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:12:32am

re: #8 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tea Party Response: The only convictions we want are to see Obama, Pelosi and Reid convicted. Then we want to go after the witches and convict them, same for the gays and anyone with a skin tone a darker shade than alabaster.

11 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:13:11am

re: #8 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have a great idea for both parties: Leaders lead. Quit listening to polls anmd which way the wind blows. Have convictions, ya might win something.

Subversive, reactionary drivel. What is this, 1771? Get with the times!

12 rwmofo  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:13:24am

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

13 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:13:37am
14 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:14:26am

re: #10 Dreggas

Tea Party Response: The only convictions we want are to see Obama, Pelosi and Reid convicted. Then we want to go after the witches and convict them, same for the gays and anyone with a skin tone a darker shade than alabaster.

The left said the same with Bush and Cheney.

15 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:14:53am

re: #12 rwmofo

Nice satire!

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

16 pharmmajor  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:14:53am

Charles, I'm afraid you're wrong. The Tea Party movement started out as one driven by libertarians and economic conservatives to protest reckless spending that had started under the Bush administration. When Obama took office it was hijacked by the far-right and twisted to suit their agenda.

17 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:15:04am

Shit just got real in the CA governor's race

Meg Whitman's Former Housekeeper Will Allege She 'Suffered' As A Household Employee

The former housekeeper of Republican California gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman plans to announce at a news conference this afternoon that she “suffered” as an employee of the billionaire former eBay CEO.

Celebrity lawyer Gloria Allred is representing the housekeeper, who according to a statement from Allred’s law office, was a Latina household employee who worked for Whitman for nine years. The release states that the housekeeper “will be making what are sure to be controversial and explosive allegations” and plans to file a legal claim against her former boss.

The Whitman campaign immediately responded with a statement attacking Allred but steered clear of mentioning any of the allegations that the housekeeper will discuss at the news conference, scheduled for 11 a.m. Pacific time in Los Angeles.

18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:15:13am

re: #14 Cannadian Club Akbar

Unlike the right the left didn't have candidates really running on that platform who were elected.

19 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:15:41am

This looks like a problem to me. Republicans are roughly 30-35% of the population. Only 70% of them support the Tea Party. That leaves them with roughly 20% of the voting public. That's not good. They have enough of a majority to get Tea Party candidates to win a primary but they are in serious trouble with the general population.

20 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:16:17am

Is it delusional to hope that the current political landscape is simply representative of a tectonic shift which will ultimately leave us with a new, moderate, pragmatic center?

21 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:16:35am

re: #12 rwmofo

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

If only the tea party itself would ever consider running one of those centrist/independents for election instead of a conservative so con/liberterian!

22 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:16:59am

re: #18 Dreggas

Unlike the right the left didn't have candidates really running on that platform who were elected.

Rhetoric still the same.

23 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:17:24am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Heard that on the news this morning. Should be entertaining.

24 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:17:46am

re: #16 pharmmajor

Charles, I'm afraid you're wrong. The Tea Party movement started out as one driven by libertarians and economic conservatives to protest reckless spending that had started under the Bush administration. When Obama took office it was hijacked by the far-right and twisted to suit their agenda.

Not true. Tea Party 2007. The Tea Parties have always been Paulians, Truthers, Birch society types. The Republicans signed on to an already existing movement.

25 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:19:40am

Ron Paul | Boston Tea Party Rally | Rand Paul (5/22) (2007)

Look familiar?

26 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:19:55am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Not true. Tea Party 2007. The Tea Parties have always been Paulians, Truthers, Birch society types. The Republicans signed on to an already existing movement.

I went to the first one in Sarasota. Only 1 kook. I am on the record for saying this here.

27 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:20:16am

BBIAM.

28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:20:23am

re: #20 imp_62

Is it delusional to hope that the current political landscape is simply representative of a tectonic shift which will ultimately leave us with a new, moderate, pragmatic center?

Yes. Moderate pragmatism doesn't sell newspapers and TV commercials.

29 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:20:44am

re: #12 rwmofo

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

Do you even bother reading your posts before you click on "post this comment"? I am a big believer in everybody expressing an opinion, and I have argued on these pages that sometimes people are to quick to judge. But your arguments and statements are devoid of even the barest, slimmest shreds of factual veracity. Centrists and Independents moving to the tea parties? Those groupings are collecting right wing malcontents and fringe reactionaries of all stripes.

30 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:21:22am

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey, did things work out with getting paid?

31 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:22:47am

re: #28 oaktree

Yes. Moderate pragmatism doesn't sell newspapers and TV commercials.

It does sell a lot of bourbon, though. At least to me.

32 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:23:08am

Meg Whitman's Former Maid To Drop 'Explosive' Allegations Against California Gubernatorial Candidate

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Could this be "Maidgate" 2010 for California GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman?

Gossip site TMZ reports Wednesday that the former housekeeper of the one-time eBay CEO plans to make "explosive" allegations against Whitman in a live news conference coming later at 11 AM PT. The maid is supposedly planning "to tell how she suffered as a long-time, Latina household employee in Meg Whitman's home."

33 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:23:34am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Shit just got real in the CA governor's race

Meg Whitman's Former Housekeeper Will Allege She 'Suffered' As A Household Employee

It'll be interesting to see how well Meg keeps her cool as she gets asked about this, and also after the opinion polls following last night's debate are released. NPR tried to be fair to her by only addressing the things she said in the debate, but as she only attacked Jerry Brown in most of her comments, all they had to use was her "spine of steel" quote...which wasn't that great in the first place.

34 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:24:22am

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

Meg Whitman's Former Maid To Drop 'Explosive' Allegations Against California Gubernatorial Candidate

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Could this be "Maidgate" 2010 for California GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman?

Gossip site TMZ reports Wednesday that the former housekeeper of the one-time eBay CEO plans to make "explosive" allegations against Whitman in a live news conference coming later at 11 AM PT. The maid is supposedly planning "to tell how she suffered as a long-time, Latina household employee in Meg Whitman's home."

The Univision debate will be fun to watch, as immigration and minority rights will be a major topic.

35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:24:32am

re: #31 imp_62

It does sell a lot of bourbon, though. At least to me.

Oh I'm all for it (moderate pragmatism). I just don't think we're going to see it since the media has no interest in promoting it and human nature appears to award those who scream and froth at the mouth the most. (Barring the visible effects of rabies of course...)

36 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:24:43am

re: #26 Cannadian Club Akbar

I went to the first one in Sarasota. Only 1 kook. I am on the record for saying this here.

Yeah, these people look normal....
[Link: www.epiphanydigest.com...]

[Link: www.epiphanydigest.com...]

[Link: www.epiphanydigest.com...]

Took me 30 seconds to google. Kooks galore.

37 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:24:57am

re: #34 darthstar

The Univision debate will be fun to watch, as immigration and minority rights will be a major topic.

I learned most of my Spanish from watching Sabado Gigante

38 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:25:21am

re: #32 Rightwingconspirator

Meg Whitman's Former Maid To Drop 'Explosive' Allegations Against California Gubernatorial Candidate

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Could this be "Maidgate" 2010 for California GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman?

Gossip site TMZ reports Wednesday that the former housekeeper of the one-time eBay CEO plans to make "explosive" allegations against Whitman in a live news conference coming later at 11 AM PT. The maid is supposedly planning "to tell how she suffered as a long-time, Latina household employee in Meg Whitman's home."

Comments there are already covered with the "she must be an illegal" and "Why can't she speak in English?" attacks on the maids story.

39 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:25:39am

Oh, and speaking of the teabaggers, astroturf specialists FreedomWorks is endorsing Carly Fiorina (big surprise there) - NPR reported that FreedomWorks will help with "grass roots support" for Fiorina.

40 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:25:41am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I said I went to the first one. That ain't it.

41 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:25:46am

Someone may have already posted this, but Matt Taibbi has a funny (imho) article in Rolling Stone:

Tea & Crackers:
How corporate interests and Republican insiders built the Tea Party monster

Vast forests have already been sacrificed to the public debate about the Tea Party: what it is, what it means, where it's going. But after lengthy study of the phenomenon, I've concluded that the whole miserable narrative boils down to one stark fact: They're full of shit. All of them. At the voter level, the Tea Party is a movement that purports to be furious about government spending — only the reality is that the vast majority of its members are former Bush supporters who yawned through two terms of record deficits and spent the past two electoral cycles frothing not about spending but about John Kerry's medals and Barack Obama's Sixties associations. The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending — with the exception of the money spent on them. In fact, their lack of embarrassment when it comes to collecting government largesse is key to understanding what this movement is all about — and nowhere do we see that dynamic as clearly as here in Kentucky, where Rand Paul is barreling toward the Senate with the aid of conservative icons like Palin.

42 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:26:29am

re: #37 imp_62

I learned most of my Spanish from watching Sabado Gigante

I usually only watched it with the volume turned off.

43 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:26:44am

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Wow, Sylvester Stallone is a teabagger?
Image: 100_9809.jpg

44 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:27:38am

re: #41 negativ

That article goes beyond funny...it's brutal.

They're full of shit. All of them.

45 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:28:12am

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I usually only watched it with the volume turned off.

When I traveled to South America and Mexico on business, I always felt a bit like John Candy in "Splash". You know the scene to which I refer?

46 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:30:03am

re: #45 imp_62

When I traveled to South America and Mexico on business, I always felt a bit like John Candy in "Splash". You know the scene to which I refer?

The "I can speak Swedish" scene.

47 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:31:17am

re: #46 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

:D

48 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:31:34am

OT- The witching hour is upon me. Let's see if I get a paycheck. BBL. Wish me luck.

49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:32:32am

re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar

OT- The witching hour is upon me. Let's see if I get a paycheck. BBL. Wish me luck.

O'Donnell has her own hour already? Which network?

50 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:32:36am

re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar

OT- The witching hour is upon me. Let's see if I get a paycheck. BBL. Wish me luck.

Good luck. Fingers crossed.

51 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:32:43am

re: #41 negativ

This is good:


It would be inaccurate to say the Tea Partiers are racists. What they are, in truth, are narcissists. They're completely blind to how offensive the very nature of their rhetoric is to the rest of the country. I'm an ordinary middle-aged guy who pays taxes and lives in the suburbs with his wife and dog — and I'm a radical communist? I don't love my country? I'm a redcoat? Fuck you! These are the kinds of thoughts that go through your head as you listen to Tea Partiers expound at awesome length upon their cultural victimhood, surrounded as they are by America-haters like you and me or, in the case of foreign-born president Barack Obama, people who are literally not Americans in the way they are.

It's not like the Tea Partiers hate black people. It's just that they're shockingly willing to believe the appalling horseshit fantasy about how white people in the age of Obama are some kind of oppressed minority. That may not be racism, but it is incredibly, earth-shatteringly stupid.[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:33:25am

Right now the Tea Party has a certain momentum, taking advantage of disaffection with incumbents, and they are going to displace a number of Democrats in the midterms.

But it will be interesting to see what becomes of that momentum over the long term when they hijack the Republican party altogether and impose a radically right-wing platform, especially on social issues.

53 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:35:54am

re: #52 ralphieboy

Right now the Tea Party has a certain momentum, taking advantage of disaffection with incumbents, and they are going to displace a number of Democrats in the midterms.

But it will be interesting to see what becomes of that momentum over the long term when they hijack the Republican party altogether and impose a radically right-wing platform, especially on social issues.

I share your curiousity on this issue. I also have found myself wondering whether the end of the tea party, when it inevitably comes, will also be the end of the self-described Libertarians, now that Rand Paul has so closely associated the family name with the tea partiers.

54 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:36:03am
55 S'latch  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:36:37am

The "potent force" of the Tea Party will probably prevent the Republican Party from gaining back a majority in the Senate and the House in 2010. Without that "potent force," it would have.

56 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:37:09am

re: #35 oaktree

Oh I'm all for it (moderate pragmatism). I just don't think we're going to see it since the media has no interest in promoting it and human nature appears to award those who scream and froth at the mouth the most. (Barring the visible effects of rabies of course...)

Obama is a moderate pragmatist.

57 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:39:03am

re: #56 MarkAM

Obama is a moderate pragmatist.

Ummmm - No. Pragmatic I will give you, but I don't think of him as a moderate. Moderates don't pound through healthcare legislation while the economy is spiralling out of control.

58 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:39:03am

re: #54 Rightwingconspirator

Whitman allegations Paged..

Might want to edit the headline, it got cut off (unless there really is a Los Angeles Tim?) I often cut off the source designations in the headline.

59 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:39:32am

re: #55 Lawrence Schmerel

The "potent force" of the Tea Party will probably prevent the Republican Party from gaining back a majority in the Senate and the House in 2010. Without that "potent force," it would have.

The dynamic will probably be thus: the Republicans will make some gains, but not as great as they might have. But purists will be blamed on a lack of ideological fervor and there will be further purges, leading to a significant reverse of fortunes in 2012.

I believe that is what it will take to get the GOP to get its head on straight.

60 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:40:14am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seems Whitman knew she was employing an undocumented worker, and then fired her when she decided to run for governor.

61 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:40:18am

re: #57 imp_62

Liberals wanted single-payer. The health care plan is similar to plans Republicans have advocated since the '90s, or earlier.

62 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:40:24am

re: #59 ralphieboy

The dynamic will probably be thus: the Republicans will make some gains, but not as great as they might have. But purists will be blamed on a lack of ideological fervor and there will be further purges, leading to a significant reverse of fortunes in 2012.

I believe that is what it will take to get the GOP to get its head on straight.

For the sake of all Americans, I certainly hope so!

63 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:40:26am

re: #57 imp_62

Ummm - No. Pragmatic I will give you, but I don't think of him as a moderate. Moderates don't pound through healthcare legislation while the economy is spiralling out of control.

What would the cost of not passing health care legislation have been?

64 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:40:37am

re: #57 imp_62

Ummm - No. Pragmatic I will give you, but I don't think of him as a moderate. Moderates don't pound through healthcare legislation while the economy is spiralling out of control.


He did not "pound it through", he tried to work with a majority in the house and senate, any pounding you heard was that of Republicans beating their heads against it in an attempt to stop it.

65 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:41:27am

re: #58 wrenchwench

Thanks
I wanted the headline to as follows, but left the Times one.

Gloria Allred Sniffs Out Meg Whitmans Dirty Laundry

66 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:42:57am
Tags: Republican Party, RNC, GOP, Extremism, Tea Party, Bad Craziness, Extremism

It's deserved in this case.

67 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:44:35am

re: #63 Obdicut

re: #63 Obdicut

re: #61 MarkAM

Healthcare reform is/was necessary. I question that it was prioritized ahead of financial reform. I question how it was explained to the public, and the fact that I can still not figure out what the long term cost to the treasury is going to be.

Obama might be a moderate Democrat, but I don't think so. He is a pragmatic centre left democrat.

It was pounded through. Efforts by either party to claim "cooperation" with the other, when in possession of a filibuster proof majority, are almost always false.

68 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:44:52am

re: #57 imp_62

Ummm - No. Pragmatic I will give you, but I don't think of him as a moderate. Moderates don't pound through healthcare legislation while the economy is spiralling out of control.

Pound through? It took a whole fuckin' year to get Health Care Reform passed, and all of the concessions made for the zero Republican votes watered it down just enough so they'd have something to criticize. Pound through...sheesh. Do you recall the tax cuts of 2001? That was pounded through (which is why they'll expire at the end of this year, thank god).

69 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:45:00am

re: #65 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks
I wanted the headline to as follows, but left the Times one.

Gloria Allred Sniffs Out Meg Whitmans Dirty Laundry

Your own headline is often superior for a Page, and that would be a good one.

70 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:45:19am

Well, what did anyone expect? If you're a small-government conservative, you wouldn't be too happy with the GOP today. They've largely betrayed their principles.

The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.

71 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:46:05am

re: #65 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks
I wanted the headline to as follows, but left the Times one.

Gloria Allred Sniffs Out Meg Whitmans Dirty Laundry

I don't think the Allred thing will hurt Whitman. Her appearance on TV next to a spunky and witty Jerry Brown hurt her more than allegations she treated her immigrant help like shit.

72 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:47:18am

re: #70 Johnny2Times

The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.

Which Tea Party platform are you referring to?

73 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:48:37am

re: #68 darthstar

Pound through? It took a whole fuckin' year to get Health Care Reform passed, and all of the concessions made for the zero Republican votes watered it down just enough so they'd have something to criticize. Pound through...sheesh. Do you recall the tax cuts of 2001? That was pounded through (which is why they'll expire at the end of this year, thank god).

If anybody understood what the heck was in the legislation, it would have been passed with stronger public approval of the undertaking. Maybe pounded is too strong a word, but I certainly would not to see that process repeated for all major policy initiatives. Financial reform was smoother (but not by much) and I think more pressing at the time. The President simply wanted healthcare reform passed when he had a veto proof majority. At any cost.

74 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:48:55am

re: #67 imp_62

Here's a thought: The Democratic Party isn't a monolithic hive-mind that acts with one will.

Health care barely limped through the gate. It wasn't pounded.

75 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:49:05am

re: #72 wrenchwench

Which Tea Party platform are you referring to?

The small-government one.

76 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:49:20am

re: #70 Johnny2Times


The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.

Can you explain what their aims are?

77 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:49:47am

re: #9 darthstar

Have you read Matt Taibbi's article in The Rolling Stone? It's brutal.

I read it last night...
One of the best parts is right at the beginning:

"The scooters are because of Medicare," he whispers helpfully. "They have these commercials down here: 'You won't even have to pay for your scooter! Medicare will pay!' Practically everyone in Kentucky has one."
A hall full of elderly white people in Medicare-paid scooters, railing against government spending and imagining themselves revolutionaries as they cheer on the vice-presidential puppet hand-picked by the GOP establishment. If there exists a better snapshot of everything the Tea Party represents, I can't imagine it.
After Palin wraps up, I race to the parking lot in search of departing Medicare-motor-scooter conservatives. I come upon an elderly couple, Janice and David Wheelock, who are fairly itching to share their views.
"I'm anti-spending and anti-government," crows David, as scooter-bound Janice looks on. "The welfare state is out of control."
"OK," I say. "And what do you do for a living?"
"Me?" he says proudly. "Oh, I'm a property appraiser. Have been my whole life."
I frown. "Are either of you on Medicare?"
Silence: Then Janice, a nice enough woman, it seems, slowly raises her hand, offering a faint smile, as if to say, You got me!
"Let me get this straight," I say to David. "You've been picking up a check from the government for decades, as a tax assessor, and your wife is on Medicare. How can you complain about the welfare state?"
"Well," he says, "there's a lot of people on welfare who don't deserve it. Too many people are living off the government."
"But," I protest, "you live off the government. And have been your whole life!"
"Yeah," he says, "but I don't make very much."

............
The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending — with the exception of the money spent on them. In fact, their lack of embarrassment when it comes to collecting government largesse is key to understanding what this movement is all about

[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

78 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:50:11am

re: #72 wrenchwench

Which Tea Party platform are you referring to?

You have hit it on the head. Most folks can go along with the idea lower taxes and smaller government at least until they realize what the end results of those policies are: corporations gone mad and running the economy into the ground and requiring a government bailout.

As for their social policies, (abortion, gay rights) they do represent a minority of Americans, and that will come back to bite them in the butt.

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:50:18am

re: #75 Johnny2Times

The small-government one.

From which tea party organization?

Links are good.

80 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:50:55am

re: #75 Johnny2Times

The small-government one.

The one where they get to keep their medicare, tricare and social security?

81 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:51:02am

re: #74 Obdicut

Here's a thought: The Democratic Party isn't a monolithic hive-mind that acts with one will.

Health care barely limped through the gate. It wasn't pounded.

Let's agree to disagree. I think it was piss poor legislation, advanced on a faulty schedule. The issue of healthcare reform is so important that it deserved better. And I believe that the Democratic leadership rammed it down their caucus's throat.

82 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:51:33am

re: #78 ralphieboy

You have hit it on the head. Most folks can go along with the idea lower taxes and smaller government at least until they realize what the end results of those policies are: corporations gone mad and running the economy into the ground and requiring a government bailout.

As for their social policies, (abortion, gay rights) they do represent a minority of Americans, and that will come back to bite them in the butt.

There's one tea party group that specifically avoids social issues. Too bad they're so obscure.

83 Four More Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:52:08am

re: #80 webevintage

The one where they get to keep their medicare, tricare and social security?

Don't forget the ginormous military. Somehow that's not included in "government."

84 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:52:29am

re: #73 imp_62

If anybody understood what the heck was in the legislation, it would have been passed with stronger public approval of the undertaking. Maybe pounded is too strong a word, but I certainly would not to see that process repeated for all major policy initiatives. Financial reform was smoother (but not by much) and I think more pressing at the time. The President simply wanted healthcare reform passed when he had a veto proof majority. At any cost.

I'll tell you some things in the legislation that are a good thing (and the first affects our own reine as she has a daughter in college)...kids can stay on their parent's insurance until they're twenty-six. No denial due to asthma, or diabetes, or any other pre-existing condition. Preventive care at no cost (stay healthy, and you're less expensive)...

85 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:53:04am

re: #77 webevintage

That's it in a nutshell. It's not about government spending, but about government spending on others. When resources look to be getting scarce, the wolves turn on each other.

86 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:53:27am

re: #81 imp_62

Let's agree to disagree.

That phrase is really meaningless.

I think it was piss poor legislation, advanced on a faulty schedule.

I don't think it was great legislation, but that was due to the insane amount that it was compromised.

The issue of healthcare reform is so important that it deserved better.

Deserved better than the constant stream of lies from the GOP about it? You betcha!

And I believe that the Democratic leadership rammed it down their caucus's throat.

What the hell is up with the great affection for the image of things being rammed down throats, can you explain that to me?

And can you explain how a watered-down bill, compromised in a hundred different ways, with no public option, no right for states to set up public options, fits this weird, graphic, image?

87 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:53:43am

re: #83 JasonA

Don't forget the ginormous military. Somehow that's not included in "government."

I have not heard much from the Tea party on the matter of foreign policy, but I would guess that it would involve shouting loudly and carrying an enormous stick...

88 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:53:57am

re: #73 imp_62

If anybody understood what the heck was in the legislation, it would have been passed with stronger public approval of the undertaking.

The funny thing when polled about the "parts" of the HCR Americans are all for them, but they don't like (by a small majority depending on which poll you read) the law...even though it has all the things they say they want.

And a good amount of the folks who don't like the law don't like the paw because it is not "medicare for all" or have a public option.

89 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:54:52am

re: #84 darthstar

I'll tell you some things in the legislation that are a good thing (and the first affects our own reine as she has a daughter in college)...kids can stay on their parent's insurance until they're twenty-six. No denial due to asthma, or diabetes, or any other pre-existing condition. Preventive care at no cost (stay healthy, and you're less expensive)...

I have not said there aren't useful things in the legislation. Anyway, let's drop it; I can see that I am going to be painted into some reactionary corner where I truly don't belong. I just want a bit more transparency and a bit less Pelosi in my legislative processes.

90 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:55:02am

re: #87 ralphieboy

I have not heard much from the Tea party on the matter of foreign policy, but I would guess that it would involve shouting loudly and carrying an enormous stick...

Some of them are isolationist anti-war dopes. Maybe a lot of them. The Pauls are.

91 Four More Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:55:17am

re: #87 ralphieboy

I have not heard much from the Tea party on the matter of foreign policy, but I would guess that it would involve shouting loudly and carrying an enormous stick...

There's a Dr. Freud on line one...

92 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:55:58am

re: #87 ralphieboy

I have not heard much from the Tea party on the matter of foreign policy, but I would guess that it would involve shouting loudly and carrying an enormous stick...

The Paulian view would be the opposite...let the rabble fight themselves into extinction.

93 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:57:01am

re: #90 wrenchwench

Some of them are isolationist anti-war dopes. Maybe a lot of them. The Pauls are.


Isolationist is fine if it is practiced consistently, but we cannot be economically involved all over the world (and dependent on its energy resources) and still be militarily isolationist.

94 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:57:37am

re: #86 Obdicut


What the hell is up with the great affection for the image of things being rammed down throats, can you explain that to me?

Image: miracles.jpg

95 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:57:48am

re: #88 webevintage

The funny thing when polled about the "parts" of the HCR Americans are all for them, but they don't like (by a small majority depending on which poll you read) the law...even though it has all the things they say they want.

And a good amount of the folks who don't like the law don't like the paw because it is not "medicare for all" or have a public option.

They like the benefits but don't like the costs.

96 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:57:52am

re: #86 Obdicut

That phrase is really meaningless.

I don't think it was great legislation, but that was due to the insane amount that it was compromised.

Deserved better than the constant stream of lies from the GOP about it? You betcha!

What the hell is up with the great affection for the image of things being rammed down throats, can you explain that to me?

And can you explain how a watered-down bill, compromised in a hundred different ways, with no public option, no right for states to set up public options, fits this weird, graphic, image?

Friend, I grew up in a universal healthcare, dual mandate country and I think that is the only way to manage healtchare in a civilized country. When I criticize political process, i don't appreciate being attacked on legislative content.

97 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:58:03am

re: #79 wrenchwench

From which tea party organization?

Links are good.

Are you seriously suggesting that any of the tea party groups don't want smaller government?

98 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:58:16am

re: #51 jaunte

This is good:

It's not like the Tea Partiers hate black people. It's just that they're shockingly willing to believe the appalling horseshit fantasy about how white people in the age of Obama are some kind of oppressed minority. That may not be racism, but it is incredibly, earth-shatteringly stupid.

I love the way he writes.

99 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:58:24am

re: #97 Johnny2Times

Are you seriously suggesting that any of the tea party groups don't want smaller government?

Define 'smaller government'.

100 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:59:10am

re: #93 ralphieboy

Isolationist is fine if it is practiced consistently, but we cannot be economically involved all over the world (and dependent on its energy resources) and still be militarily isolationist.

We can't care about our fellow humans and be isolationist, unless we limit our caring to those geographically closest. Impossible, in this day and age. I have siblings on three continents.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:59:16am

re: #96 imp_62

When I criticize political process, i don't appreciate being attacked on legislative content.

I really don't understand this sentence.

102 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 11:59:22am

re: #99 Obdicut

Define 'smaller government'.

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:00:07pm

re: #12 rwmofo

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

well, thank god we got rid of all those left wingers and put in some God-fearing GOP racist scum, that's a little more in line with what I expect

Praise be!

104 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:00:20pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

What specific cuts to government spending are being proposed?

105 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:00:20pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

Define those. Name things that you believe the Tea Party wants to see cut that would result in less government spending.

Which forms of taxation should be lowered?

106 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:00:45pm

re: #89 imp_62

I have not said there aren't useful things in the legislation. Anyway, let's drop it; I can see that I am going to be painted into some reactionary corner where I truly don't belong. I just want a bit more transparency and a bit less Pelosi in my legislative processes.

This started when you said Obama wasn't a moderate, something you've not supported with anything substantive. Whether or not he used some kind of excessive force to get health care passed, the plan itself is hardly what center-left, or left-wing democrats wanted. He never presented a plan that was anything but moderate. Try reading some liberal blogs and see just how disenchanted what passes for the left in America is with Obama.

107 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:00:59pm

re: #97 Johnny2Times

Are you seriously suggesting that any of the tea party groups don't want smaller government?

No. I'll state my point clearly. This:

Well, what did anyone expect? If you're a small-government conservative, you wouldn't be too happy with the GOP today. They've largely betrayed their principles.

The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.

is bullshit.

108 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #93 ralphieboy

Isolationist is fine if it is practiced consistently, but we cannot be economically involved all over the world (and dependent on its energy resources) and still be militarily isolationist.

An interesting trend how economic/trading powers seem to periodically swing into a sort of "Splendid Isolation" period where they expect they can withdraw into a defensive shell militarily with minimum expenditures while expecting their commercial interests to continue running strong and influentially. UK and US have both passed through this stage at least once. China took it to an even greater extreme.

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:01:33pm

re: #81 imp_62

Let's agree to disagree. I think it was piss poor legislation, advanced on a faulty schedule. The issue of healthcare reform is so important that it deserved better. And I believe that the Democratic leadership rammed it down their caucus's throat.

Wow, I think we have a free range talking point here

hey lil guy, are you lost? Do you need ta be with your other GOP memes?

110 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:01:53pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

and how does that happen without touching medicare, social security or military spending?
Oh, I know, we take it from the "least of these" because everyone knows they should just pull themselves up by their fucking bootstraps and stop spongin' off of MEMEMEME and make sure rich folks get to keep their tax cuts.

111 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:01:54pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Define those. Name things that you believe the Tea Party wants to see cut that would result in less government spending.

Which forms of taxation should be lowered?


The Tea Party is not about policy, it is about ideology. As soon as they find themselves in a position to convert the latter into the former, they will fall flat on their faces.

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:02:08pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

Another talking point! Hi, talking point! Which think tank did you crawl out of?

113 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:03:33pm

re: #106 MarkAM

This started when you said Obama wasn't a moderate, something you've not supported with anything substantive. Whether or not he used some kind of excessive force to get health care passed, the plan itself is hardly what center-left, or left-wing democrats wanted. He never presented a plan that was anything but moderate. Try reading some liberal blogs and see just how disenchanted what passes for the left in America is with Obama.

No thanks. I am happy to form my own opinions based on fact. And I will be interested to see if you have a definition for moderate that goes beyond "not liked by liberal bloggers".

Actually, strike that. I am not that interested.

114 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:03:46pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Define those. Name things that you believe the Tea Party wants to see cut that would result in less government spending.

Which forms of taxation should be lowered?

How is this in any way relevant to what I said? I didn't say I had the solution, I said that tea partiers have been very clear that they want lower taxes and less government intervention into their lives.

115 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:04:00pm

re: #107 wrenchwench

No. I'll state my point clearly. This:

is bullshit.

Prove it.

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:04:06pm

re: #70 Johnny2Times

The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.

You're right, they really want to know where the birth certificate is ahahahaha

117 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:04:46pm

re: #77 webevintage

That's why I am no fan of the Tea Party, the GOP, or the Democrats. They're all in it for the money - making sure that they grab more than their share to pay for their pet projects/interests/priorities, throwing fiscal responsibility out the window.

Medicare is rife with fraud generally (to the tune of billions every year), and those scooter ads are reprehensible because nothing is free - someone is paying for them (the taxpayers). One of the scooter sellers recently settled with the government over Medicare fraud.

In 2007, the company [The Scooter Store] paid the federal government $4 million and agreed to waive another $13 million in Medicare payments to settle Medicare fraud charges.

Put another way, a person seeking to buy a scooter from the Scooter Store using the Medicare benefit could get a Jazzy Select Power Chair (retail price $5496) from us for only $728.28 out of pocket (the $728.28 is 20% of the Medicare allowable charge). The feds would be picking up the rest of the tab.

118 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:16pm

re: #114 Johnny2Times

How is this in any way relevant to what I said? I didn't say I had the solution, I said that tea partiers have been very clear that they want lower taxes and less government intervention into their lives.

What does that mean, though? You're saying they've been very clear, but you can't actually explain what they mean. That is contradictory.

119 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:20pm

re: #114 Johnny2Times

How is this in any way relevant to what I said? I didn't say I had the solution, I said that tea partiers have been very clear that they want lower taxes and less government intervention into their lives.

Except that, when actually pressed for examples of what they would cut, they have nothing to offer (witness Rand Paul recently walking back his proposal to slap a $2,000 deductible on Medicare).

So, it is false to suggest that Tea Partiers are "honest" about their aims, when in reality it's the same old GOP bullshit: cut taxes and leave spending the same, because "deficits don't matter" (until the Dems are in charge).

120 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:23pm

This thread is raising my blood pressure past where it needs to be. I have had more constructive conversations in the supermarket checkout line.

Bye.

121 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:32pm

re: #12 rwmofo

yeah, nothing attracts moderates like abusing women, denying science, and being a general all-around moron.

122 KingKenrod  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:36pm

re: #106 MarkAM

This started when you said Obama wasn't a moderate, something you've not supported with anything substantive. Whether or not he used some kind of excessive force to get health care passed, the plan itself is hardly what center-left, or left-wing democrats wanted. He never presented a plan that was anything but moderate. Try reading some liberal blogs and see just how disenchanted what passes for the left in America is with Obama.

The HCR reform law is pretty moderate (it was moderated to win conservative Democratic votes), with the exception of the individual mandate. The support of the insurance company was bought with a provision that sanctions every citizen who does not buy insurance company product. I find this idea radical.

123 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:46pm

re: #115 Johnny2Times

Prove it.

You haven't been able to link to any platform that says what they are being honest about, let alone that they are honest.

124 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:49pm

re: #117 lawhawk

That's why I am no fan of the Tea Party, the GOP, or the Democrats

And the Magical Balance Fairy dances.

125 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:54pm

re: #118 Obdicut

What does that mean, though? You're saying they've been very clear, but you can't actually explain what they mean. That is contradictory.

If someone yells "I want lower taxes!" how much clearer do you need it to be?

126 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:05:57pm

re: #115 Johnny2Times

Prove it.

Look at Rand Paul. He's as much as admitted much of the teabag rhetoric he used was just to give him an advantage in the primary. He knows he can't win the general on the teabagger platform, and while he once claimed he wouldn't take money from insiders, turned around and embraced Mitch McConnell as soon as he won the primary.

127 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:06:11pm

re: #114 Johnny2Times

How is this in any way relevant to what I said? I didn't say I had the solution, I said that tea partiers have been very clear that they want lower taxes and less government intervention into their lives.


Well, that's a total lie

Same doughy uneducated white Tea Partier people who want less government intervention for themselves want more government intervention on social issues, because OMG the GAY and OMG the ABORTION

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:06:32pm

re: #120 imp_62

This thread is raising my blood pressure past where it needs to be. I have had more constructive conversations in the supermarket checkout line.

Bye.

Boo fuck hoo

129 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:07:12pm

re: #125 Johnny2Times

If someone yells "I want lower taxes!" how much clearer do you need it to be?

Um, if you're actually going to govern, you need to be clear about what you'll cut, and by how much. Does that answer your question?

130 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:07:29pm

is this place more conservative during the day or something

131 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:07:33pm

re: #119 iossarian

Except that, when actually pressed for examples of what they would cut, they have nothing to offer (witness Rand Paul recently walking back his proposal to slap a $2,000 deductible on Medicare).

So, it is false to suggest that Tea Partiers are "honest" about their aims, when in reality it's the same old GOP bullshit: cut taxes and leave spending the same, because "deficits don't matter" (until the Dems are in charge).

You can't determine that until a few tea partiers get into power and start making real decisions. AFAIC, I trust the tea partiers--most of whom are ordinary, hardworking people--more than the people in Washington.

132 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:07:33pm

re: #125 Johnny2Times

If someone yells "I want lower taxes!" how much clearer do you need it to be?

I want to know whether they mean they want lower income taxes, lower sales taxes, and how they propose to pay for those lower taxes-- what government spending they want cut so that those lower taxes don't add to the debt.

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:07:55pm

re: #117 lawhawk

That's why I am no fan of the Tea Party, the GOP, or the Democrats.

lol must get the DEMOCRATS!!!! in there

remember, the real problem isn't the radicals trying to get elected, the real problem is the moderates in office, hah

134 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:08:02pm

re: #125 Johnny2Times

If someone yells "I want lower taxes!" how much clearer do you need it to be?

Most of those fuckers are living off the government already and don't pay any taxes. The only taxes that really affect them are sales taxes.

135 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:08:40pm

re: #127 WindUpBird

Well, that's a total lie

Same doughy uneducated white Tea Partier people who want less government intervention for themselves want more government intervention on social issues, because OMG the GAY and OMG the ABORTION

Exactly. SOME. But it seems like most as fiscal--not social--conservatives. Criminalizing abortion has not been part of their main platform thusfar

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:08:48pm

re: #131 Johnny2Times

You can't determine that until a few tea partiers get into power and start making real decisions. AFAIC, I trust the tea partiers--most of whom are ordinary, hardworking people--more than the people in Washington.

MORE TALKING POINTS ahaha

137 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:09:12pm

re: #135 Johnny2Times

Exactly. SOME. But it seems like most as fiscal--not social--conservatives. Criminalizing abortion has not been part of their main platform thusfar

Link?

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:09:22pm

re: #12 rwmofo

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

I'd feel less queasy at that statement if it wasn't for the fact that those 'centrist/independents', if they do as you say, are going to vote in a lot of very stupid people who wouldn't have been elected dog-catcher in the Republican party in any other year.

139 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:09:22pm

re: #132 Obdicut

I want to know whether they mean they want lower income taxes, lower sales taxes, and how they propose to pay for those lower taxes-- what government spending they want cut so that those lower taxes don't add to the debt.

Ok, then. Go to a rally and ask people there. I have no idea why you're asking me to state all of their objectives specifically and defend them.

140 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:09:37pm

re: #135 Johnny2Times

Exactly. SOME. But it seems like most as fiscal--not social--conservatives. Criminalizing abortion has not been part of their main platform thusfar

Which platform?

141 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:09:39pm

re: #131 Johnny2Times

You can't determine that until a few tea partiers get into power and start making real decisions. AFAIC, I trust the tea partiers--most of whom are ordinary, hardworking people--more than the people in Washington.

And I believe that is the point that they are going to find themselves completely unable to convert their purist ideology and fiery rhetoric into effective policy.

But I guess we will have to let a few into Washington just to prove their mettle...and hope that the damage is not irreparable.

142 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:09pm

re: #137 wrenchwench

Link?

Ok, no you're just being annoying. What kind of link would suffice to convince you that abortion is NOT part of their main platform?

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:25pm

re: #37 imp_62

I learned most of my Spanish from watching Sabado Gigante

Your conversation must be extremely interesting.

144 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:41pm

re: #131 Johnny2Times

You can't determine that until a few tea partiers get into power and start making real decisions. AFAIC, I trust the tea partiers--most of whom are ordinary, hardworking people--more than the people in Washington.

Name one actual job ordinary, hard-working Christine O'Donnell has held. Ordinary, hard-working Sharron Angle is a career politician. Ordinary, hard-working Rand Paul is an optometrist, yes, but he's an exception.

145 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:46pm

re: #139 Johnny2Times

Ok, then. Go to a rally and ask people there. I have no idea why you're asking me to state all of their objectives specifically and defend them.

I'm asking you to defend something you typed. You can't, yet you keep typing the same bullshit, so I'm calling you a troll.

Bye.

146 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:50pm

re: #139 Johnny2Times

Ok, then. Go to a rally and ask people there. I have no idea why you're asking me to state all of their objectives specifically and defend them.

Because you said they'd been 'quite clear' about their goals and aims, which means you should be able to explain them.

Are you now retracting that claim?

147 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:10:56pm

re: #131 Johnny2Times

You can't determine that until a few tea partiers get into power and start making real decisions. AFAIC, I trust the tea partiers--most of whom are ordinary, hardworking people--more than the people in Washington.

Are you for real? You mean, we aren't able to know what politicians plan to do until they're elected?

What utter crap.

148 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:11:02pm

re: #135 Johnny2Times

Exactly. SOME. But it seems like most as fiscal--not social--conservatives. Criminalizing abortion has not been part of their main platform thusfar

I'm actually listening to them speak dude, don't tell me what these people think, I'm listening to their own words, not your whitewash oh-well-they-just-want-lower-taxes-pay-no-attention-to-the-bigots-durr-hurr act

When people call me diseased, want to codify hatred of me into law, and they're running for office, I tend to believe that they don't have my best interests at heart

I'm sure as a likely white Republican who isn't told he can't marry, your milegae may perhaps vary

149 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:11:17pm

re: #142 Johnny2Times

Ok, no you're just being annoying. What kind of link would suffice to convince you that abortion is NOT part of their main platform?

A link to ANY tea party platform would be a start.

150 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:11:42pm

re: #140 wrenchwench

Which platform?

Again, you're just being irritating. Your questions are so vague as to be meaningless. Most tea partiers are railing against government spending--not abortion. "Proving" that would be next to impossible, and even if I did, you'd find some problem with it.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:11:47pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I usually only watched it with the volume turned off.

My husband does that too! He LOVES Mexican TV. Doesn't speak a word of Spanish.

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:11:59pm

re: #139 Johnny2Times

Ok, then. Go to a rally and ask people there. I have no idea why you're asking me to state all of their objectives specifically and defend them.

You know Charles has been posting all kinds of photos of those rallies, with crazy anti-gay and racist signs all over the place, right?

153 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:12:14pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

I'm asking you to defend something you typed. You can't, yet you keep typing the same bullshit, so I'm calling you a troll.

Bye.

Well, I'm calling you an idiot.

Ciao.

154 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:12:32pm

re: #149 wrenchwench

From this NYT article, the Tea party position seems to be "let's not talk about it."
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

155 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:12:35pm

re: #150 Johnny2Times

Again, you're just being irritating. Your questions are so vague as to be meaningless. Most tea partiers are railing against government spending--not abortion. "Proving" that would be next to impossible, and even if I did, you'd find some problem with it.

What is vague about asking to see ANY tea party platform?

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:12:53pm

re: #60 iossarian

Seems Whitman knew she was employing an undocumented worker, and then fired her when she decided to run for governor.

Would not surprise me in the slightest. It's hard to overemphasize how many well-to-do Californians are using illegal labor in their homes.

157 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:12:55pm

re: #150 Johnny2Times

Again, you're just being irritating. Your questions are so vague as to be meaningless. Most tea partiers are railing against government spending--not abortion. "Proving" that would be next to impossible, and even if I did, you'd find some problem with it.

You're sorta like the guy who comes into the movie ten minutes before it's about to end

We've been on this tea partier business for ages, we've seen so much more about the true nature of these people than you have

158 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:13:17pm

re: #154 jaunte

From this NYT article, the Tea party position seems to be "let's not talk about it."
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Johnny2shits has that one down.

159 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:13:21pm

re: #152 WindUpBird

You know Charles has been posting all kinds of photos of those rallies, with crazy anti-gay and racist signs all over the place, right?

Yes, and it's not just Charles who posts those. The media loves them too. They don't characterize the majority of tea partiers though.

If you think the majority are anti-gay and racist, the burden of proof is on you.

160 iossarian  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:13:22pm

re: #150 Johnny2Times

Most tea partiers are railing against government spending--not abortion.

In that case, it should be very easy to give some examples of how they plan to cut said government spending.

But you can't, because they aren't giving any specific examples. And when they do (Rand Paul/Medicare) it turns out to be so politically toxic that they instantly jump on the denial train.

161 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:13:42pm

re: #154 jaunte

From this NYT article, the Tea party position seems to be "let's not talk about it."
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

It just so happens that nearly every single candidate endorsed by a Tea Party or speaking at a Tea Party convention is an anti-abortion advocate.

Huge, huge coincidence.

162 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:14:13pm

re: #161 Obdicut

"Oddly enough."

163 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:14:46pm

re: #161 Obdicut

It just so happens that nearly every single candidate endorsed by a Tea Party or speaking at a Tea Party convention is an anti-abortion advocate.

Huge, huge coincidence.

Right, let's just dig up circumstantial and irrelevant evidence to prove the tea partiers are all bigots.

164 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:14:55pm

I have no problem with paying taxes at the level we are at!!
BUTwhen will someone see to it that we get the most for our
MONEY???
Coruption,waste and flat out missmanagement has cost us
many billions a year!
If my bank or broker did it with the little I have I'd fire them!!

Why should Washington be any different??

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:14:56pm

re: #159 Johnny2Times

Yes, and it's not just Charles who posts those. The media loves them too. They don't characterize the majority of tea partiers though.

If you think the majority are anti-gay and racist, the burden of proof is on you.

Okay!

A full 14 percent of Republicans said that it was "definitely true" that Obama sympathized with the fundamentalists and wanted to impose Islamic law across the globe. An additional 38 percent said that it was probably true -- bringing the total percentage of believers to 52 percent.

There we go!

The problem son, is you don't seem to do internet

166 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:15:34pm

re: #128 WindUpBird

Boo fuck hoo

You weren't even part of the fucking conversation, but you downding me and comment? You were probably the kid in the gang of bullies who ran up after the fight to punch somebody in the head when their back was turned.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:15:45pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

I believe they want that, although I don't believe they have the technical ability to create it.

I DON'T believe they want smaller government in any social area.

168 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:15:51pm

re: #144 darthstar

We asked the same Questions about the Pres....
Just sayin!

169 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:16:15pm

re: #163 Johnny2Times

Right, let's just dig up circumstantial and irrelevant evidence to prove the tea partiers are all bigots.

It's the only evidence on the table at the moment.

You got nuthin'.

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:16:23pm

This is the other thing that the Tea Party is taking advantage of: it is a blank screen onto which the public can project its image of whatever people want to see in government.

Problem is, if they get into power, they will be called upon to make the kind of hard decisions that sully the canvas.

171 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:16:45pm

re: #165 WindUpBird

Okay!

There we go!

The problem son, is you don't seem to do internet

Umm, you realize that's a poll of Republicans, right?

Also, because people are whacko conspiracy theorists doesn't make them bigots. It makes them ignorant and/or stupid.

172 palomino  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:16:55pm

re: #1 sagehen

Eisenhower is weeping.

Even Nixon is trying to sidle away.

Even Reagan wouldn't know quite what to make of these clowns. And I gotta think that Bush Sr. isn't a big fan.

173 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:17:22pm

lol at all the people saying the tea party isn't batshit nuts

[Link: www.mainepolitics.net...]

[Link: www.mainepolitics.net...]

174 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:17:24pm

re: #150 Johnny2Times

Didn't you just say yesterday you weren't "spouting Tea Party talking points?"

175 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:17:30pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

*looking up from the foxhole* Boy, am I glad to see you...

176 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:17:36pm

re: #124 Obdicut

Again you quip with the magical balance BS as though that somehow wins an argument?

NJ and NYC and NY have long been Democratic controlled - out of control spending on everything imaginable. NYS has the highest medical costs in the nation and spends more on Medicaid than any other state in the country - and higher per capita than anywhere else. NJ and NY each have has a multibillion deficits that is structural. Neither can afford what it spends annually, and yet NY keeps increasing spending (spending outpacing tax revenues, increased taxes and fees, and inflation). NJ finally held the line on spending (but skipped a pension payment obligation of several billion $ to balance the budget and keep from raising taxes more this year into the teeth of a recession).

You think that's sustainable? You think that's fiscally responsible?

The feds are no different - spending more and more without a means to pay. And raising taxes does not always correlate with higher tax revenues - there is diminishing returns when tax rates reach certain levels. Tax simplification - eliminating tax credits/deductions/exemptions with a reduction in tax rates would actually result in higher tax revenues because of easier compliance with the tax law.

The Democrats in NY have no interest in fiscal responsibility - if they were, they would have put together budgets in FY2009-2010 and FY 2010-11 that would have not increased spending beyond conservative estimates for revenue growth (which is to say, not increasing spending above FY2008-2009 levels). Democrats control the Assembly, Senate, and the Governor's mansion. And when the GOP controlled the State Senate in Albany, things were no better - which is why I say that they don't have any interest in fiscal responsibility either.

As far as the TP is concerned, I doubt that they have any interest in doing anything more than paying lip service to fiscal responsibility - they will just redirect spending to their priorities just as surely as the GOP and Democrats have done generally.

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:17:42pm

re: #159 Johnny2Times

Yes, and it's not just Charles who posts those. The media loves them too. They don't characterize the majority of tea partiers though.

If you think the majority are anti-gay and racist, the burden of proof is on you.

The problem with you guys that carry water for the GOP regardless of what they do, is you're really dumb and easy to play with

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

You're incurious, repetitive talking point machines, you're not creative, you don't seem to want to research or examine anything, just BLUR DE BLURR IMMA PUBLICAN LOWAR TAXZZ IDEEYALOGIEE

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:18:11pm

re: #125 Johnny2Times

If someone yells "I want lower taxes!" how much clearer do you need it to be?

I also want lower taxes. I just don't believe that these eejits have the faintest idea how government works.

It's like yelling, "I want my car to be more gas efficient!"

I really mean that. That doesn't mean I have the faintest idea how to make the car more gas efficient. Nor does it mean I should be elected automotive technician.

179 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:18:20pm

re: #174 Charles

Didn't you just say yesterday you weren't "spouting Tea Party talking points?"

Yes.

180 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:18:56pm

re: #166 imp_62

You weren't even part of the fucking conversation, but you downding me and comment? You were probably the kid in the gang of bullies who ran up after the fight to punch somebody in the head when their back was turned.

Do you even understand how this place works dude

Do you even have a clue

And yeah, I was part of the gang of bullies if by gang of bullies you mean queer kid who read in the library and attempted to learn things, yeah :D

181 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:19:02pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

Having lived in the NYC metro area pretty much my entire life - and worked and lived in Albany (including working for the NYS legislature for a couple of years), I've seen up close and personal what the Democrats have done with fiscal responsibility - which is to say nothing.

The state budgets tell the story quite nicely.

182 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:19:07pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

Getting from 'want' to 'how' is the oppression inherent in the system.

183 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:19:39pm

re: #179 Johnny2Times

Yes.

And yet, here you are spouting Tea Party talking points. What a coincidence!

184 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:19:53pm

re: #168 reloadingisnotahobby

We asked the same Questions about the Pres...
Just sayin!

Well, truth be told, I don't want "ordinary, hard-working" Americans who think with their gut running my government. I want intelligent, thoughtful people who are able to see the big picture and don't get distracted by bumper-sticker rhetoric and jingoistic bullshit.

When people say, "I want my country back!" I say, "It's right in front of you, asshole!"

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:19:53pm

re: #163 Johnny2Times

Right, let's just dig up circumstantial and irrelevant evidence to prove the tea partiers are all bigots.

I just dug up a poll that says a MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS believe Obama is siding with islamic fundamentalists

if that isn't evidence of string-em-up sheet-wearing ignorant racists I don't know what is

186 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:20:35pm

re: #183 Charles

And yet, here you are spouting Tea Party talking points. What a coincidence!

How is discussing the aims of the tea party "spouting talking points"? If the media reports and/or comments on their rallies, does that mean they're "spouting"?

187 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:20:54pm

re: #180 WindUpBird

Do you even understand how this place works dude

Do you even have a clue

And yeah, I was part of the gang of bullies if by gang of bullies you mean queer kid who read in the library and attempted to learn things, yeah :D

Oh, being queer is an excuse to be rude, illogical, and aggressive? I don't think sexual preference is linked to any of your obvious personality defects.

Which place are you referring to? The world? This thread? The magical melting pot of irreconcilable statements you call a thought process?

188 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:04pm

re: #80 webevintage

The one where they get to keep their medicare, tricare and social security?

And farm subsidies, and child tax credit, and two wars at a time isn't enough we have to go for a third...

189 palomino  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:20pm

re: #12 rwmofo

Fortunately the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement.

You're simply wrong. It's a far right group filled with people who think Republicans like McCain are too liberal.

Most of the independents they've pulled in were right-leaners to begin with; their appeal to moderates is negligible. And they've done it all with good old fashioned know-nothing revanchism. Not exactly a recipe for long term success.

190 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:30pm

As a first step in trying to undo some of the lies of the Teabags and GOP types, I wrote a "pre-science" lecture, that I worked very hard on - and have been tweaking since last night - about whether or not anything is ever settled science. These charlatans use this argument as a sophistry to make their BS respectable and muddy the waters.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

For those interested, please give a look.

191 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:32pm

re: #186 Johnny2Times

How is discussing the aims of the tea party "spouting talking points"? If the media reports and/or comments on their rallies, does that mean they're "spouting"?

"Spouting" means saying anything and having nothing to back it up.

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:50pm

re: #181 lawhawk

Having lived in the NYC metro area pretty much my entire life - and worked and lived in Albany (including working for the NYS legislature for a couple of years), I've seen up close and personal what the Democrats have done with fiscal responsibility - which is to say nothing.

The state budgets tell the story quite nicely.

here we go again with the let's-make-a-thread-about-the GOP-suddenly-about-Democrats

it's like whack-a-mole!

193 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:21:53pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

I also want lower taxes. I just don't believe that these eejits have the faintest idea how government works.

It's like yelling, "I want my car to be more gas efficient!"

I really mean that. That doesn't mean I have the faintest idea how to make the car more gas efficient. Nor does it mean I should be elected automotive technician.

It's the "It's my money and I want it now!" demographic. These are the same people who buy plastic shit made in China at WalMart and then wonder why their locally owned merchants are closing their stores.

194 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:22:52pm

re: #113 imp_62

No thanks. I am happy to form my own opinions based on fact. And I will be interested to see if you have a definition for moderate that goes beyond "not liked by liberal bloggers".

Actually, strike that. I am not that interested.


You haven't offered any facts, just the claim that health care was pounded through. I've offered substance. A left or center-left health care plan would have included single payer. Obama's plan did not. It was a plan much like the one Romney supported and signed into law in Massachusetts. That is to say, it is moderate.

Here's another example: he chose the Salazaar (conservative, pro-industry) for Interior over Grivalja, leader of the Progressive Caucus. The list could go on and on.

195 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:23:02pm

re: #191 wrenchwench

"Spouting" means saying anything and having nothing to back it up.

Gah, I probably should ignore this, but i'll ask anyway.

What would I need to "back up" my observation that tea partiers say they want smaller government and lower taxes?

196 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:23:22pm

re: #192 WindUpBird

here we go again with the let's-make-a-thread-about-the GOP-suddenly-about-Democrats

it's like whack-a-mole!

Do you have any idea how this place works?

Well, do you?

You need to internet less, read more, and stay on your meds.

197 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:23:44pm

re: #187 imp_62

Oh, being queer is an excuse to be rude, illogical, and aggressive? I don't think sexual preference is linked to any of your obvious personality defects.

Which place are you referring to? The world? This thread? The magical melting pot of irreconcilable statements you call a thought process?

You're not doing this very well, if you want some internet advice, here's some:

Don't complain about downdinging, it makes you look weak

Don't go OMG A MILLION ANGRY QUESTIONS! because that makes you look like you're frustrated and out of control

You've been getting your butt handed to you by Obdicut, you're not currently in a position of authority, probably best to regroup as oppsoed to spazzing out

198 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:24:08pm

re: #196 imp_62

Do you have any idea how this place works?

Well, do you?

You need to internet less, read more, and stay on your meds.

and now you're just pissed at me, I love it :D

199 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:25:13pm

re: #195 Johnny2Times

Gah, I probably should ignore this, but i'll ask anyway.

What would I need to "back up" my observation that tea partiers say they want smaller government and lower taxes?

That's not what you asserted in your first comment on this thread.

200 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:25:38pm

re: #194 MarkAM

You haven't offered any facts, just the claim that health care was pounded through. I've offered substance. A left or center-left health care plan would have included single payer. Obama's plan did not. It was a plan much like the one Romney supported and signed into law in Massachusetts. That is to say, it is moderate.

Here's another example: he chose the Salazaar (conservative, pro-industry) for Interior over Grivalja, leader of the Progressive Caucus. The list could go on and on.

You have offered opinion, called it substance, misstated my positions, and then yelled a lot. I never claimed to offer more than my opinion. Offering an opinion is usually an invitation to some kind of civilized discourse Consider your invitation revoked.

201 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:25:51pm

re: #102 Johnny2Times

Less government spending. Lower taxes.

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 60 years. Why did you wait until now to protest?

202 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:00pm

Hre is the Tea party message from Fox. Repost:

Dear real Americans,

The progressive left constantly uses their domination of the media to unfairly smear our fair and balanced reporting of today's most crucial issues.
We here at Fox, know what real American values are. We understand that the average American is rightly enraged at the advances of international communism in this nation and the fact that our battle is so hard fought. We have true faith though that this great Christian nation will push past these dark times and revitalize the clean, unstained America that our forefathers meant for us when they founded this great Christian Nation.

We will bring you the truth of how great and good Christian men like Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Reagan fought to keep our nation safe from all pollution - be it the perverse ideas of foreigners or the domestic enemies that are so much more dangerous.

Too many are willing to lay down this nation's tradition of Christian religious liberty, and allow Muslims to have houses of worship without questioning their right to spread their evil religion. Too many are willing to lay down our right to a fair and speedy trial and give terrorists a jury trial as if they were Americans or that all people were endowed with equal rights by their creator. As John Calvin, one of the founding fathers, taught us, we know full well that God loves some much more than those He has damned to hell since before they were born. Too many would let gay people serve their nation or have civil unions. What responsible government could possibly let them choose to live in such a debased way? Is it not the job of government to insure protect individual liberty and the rights of Christian people to impose their standards of decency on others. Isn't the sort of government that watches people's sex lives closely based on the Christian values of the founders? Too many would let women have a right to "choose." Is it not the role of government to enforce God's plan and make women subservient? Besides, how can they know what is best to do with their bodies? They are, after all, only women.

Too many lay down for the big words of scientists who claim that because they wear lab coats and can do stuff like math, that we should just trust them. They think that all of those degrees make them know more than the common sense of the American voter! Who do they think they are? Einstein? Science has never proven anything! Just because they can do advanced math like algebra, they are special? Well how can they be so smart if they are all descended from monkeys anyway? Of course they never thought of that and they think they are smart!

Too many have a Godless faith in science and have allowed these progressive scientists to spread the hoax of evolution and the hoax of global warming in our schools. Where is intellectual freedom? Any skeptic who dares challenge the scientific consensus is castigated and ostracized. Should we just trust all of their "math" and "data" when the Bible tells us something different?

We understand that the progressives are winning this fight. They have put one of their own in the White House. The great founders might weep that an atheist communist, Muslim, foreigner, is in their vaunted temple of freedom, but we can not editorialize on that. We only report the facts and leave it to you, the viewer to decide if you still want white America as it should be.

We know that we are in a difficult battle against many forces. The liberal elite is called elite for a reason. They control the airwaves and they control the academic institutions of this nation. They have more money and influence than hardworking business men in the oil or coal business or Wall Street leaders and the captains of industry who keep this nation strong. Who in the hard working GOP is some sort of elite?

203 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:02pm

re: #176 lawhawk

Again you quip with the magical balance BS as though that somehow wins an argument?

No. As though saying "They're all the same" is pointless, and dumb.

Which it is.

You made a blanket statement about all Democrats, Republicans, and Tea Partiers being 'in it for the money'. As though none of them are trying, or have ever tried, to do anything fiscally responsible.

It's a foolish statement. Yes, there's a ton of problems with pork. There's plenty in local areas.

But to reduce everything that every legislator, every government official, everyone that works for the government to being 'in it for the money' is fucking stupid. Especially since the government does a lot of things that are a net benefit-- like basic science research, which has a return of about 30% on investment.

So any politician seeking to improve funding for basic science is not, in fact, being fiscally irresponsible. Obama was not being fiscally irresponsible when he sought to have food stamps and aid to the unemployed be major items in the stimulus, since it's widely agreed those are a net benefit to the economy.

My complaint is that you are foolishly, blindly treating all spending the same. You are treating all spending as though it is pork. As though every dime the government spends is wasted, and as though the government provides no value.

204 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:05pm

re: #198 WindUpBird

and now you're just pissed at me, I love it :D

I am that - and have updinged you for making me smile--

205 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:10pm

re: #195 Johnny2Times

Gah, I probably should ignore this, but i'll ask anyway.

What would I need to "back up" my observation that tea partiers say they want smaller government and lower taxes?

Can you back this up?

The Tea Party is at least honest about their aims.
206 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:14pm

Fox continued...

The liberal scum who plot to turn America over to a one world government under the U.N. control the scientists and they use the greatest hoax in human history, so called, Global Warming, to scare the good people of America into accepting yet more freedoms taken from them. We know they are marching our great nation towards a one world socialist state where Jesus will be outlawed and good clean Americans will be herded into slave camps - and you won't even be able to fight because they will take your guns! You won't be able to flee because they'll take the gasoline from your cars! Jesus would want you to strike down such enemies without mercy or forgiveness! But we can not editorialize on that either. We only report the facts in a fair and balanced way and let you, the loyal American viewer decide. We promise to never pollute your airwaves with filthy progressive propaganda. We will only report in a fair and balanced manner on the filth of the progressive tranzis and the undying ray of hope that is coming to us from brave men and women like the those tea party patriots, and Sarah Palin.

Therefore, we have taken as a model, the information distribution of other great freedom fighters in the past, who understood the dangers of world communism and the threat of polluting liberal traitors and oriental religious agents in one's own homeland.

Fox proudly announces that we are the:

Volksministerium für das Wohl des Volkes"

Which means in God's tongue, English,

The people's ministry for the good of the people.

We are Fox "Volksministerium für das Wohl des Volkes" News!

207 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:26:59pm

re: #186 Johnny2Times

The thing is, you're now devoutly avoiding discussing their aims; you ran away from your claim that they were clear and honest very quickly.

208 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:27:15pm

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

wtf is this real? link?

209 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:27:24pm

re: #199 wrenchwench

That's not what you asserted in your first comment on this thread.

Ok, well now you're just being ridiculous. I said that it's not surprising people are drawn to the tea party because the GOP spends like a drunken sailor when its in power. That's not what many conservatives want.

Let me guess: now I have to define "drunken sailor."

210 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:27:35pm

re: #201 sagehen

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 60 years. Why did you wait until now to protest?

Because Fox told them that taxes were bad, and because they can't be bothered to look at either the own numbers or their own tax returns.

211 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:27:38pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

nevermind

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:28:12pm

re: #203 Obdicut

N

So any politician seeking to improve funding for basic science is not, in fact, being fiscally irresponsible. Obama was not being fiscally irresponsible when he sought to have food stamps and aid to the unemployed be major items in the stimulus, since it's widely agreed those are a net benefit to the economy.

My complaint is that you are foolishly, blindly treating all spending the same. You are treating all spending as though it is pork. As though every dime the government spends is wasted, and as though the government provides no value.


pretty much exactly this

213 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:28:28pm

re: #208 SpaceJesus

wtf is this real? link?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This is a distillation of every Fox talking point I have ever heard. It is a sort of Poe's law satire.

214 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:29:00pm

re: #114 Johnny2Times

How is this in any way relevant to what I said? I didn't say I had the solution, I said that tea partiers have been very clear that they want lower taxes and less government intervention into their lives.

Except for warrantless wiretaps. And putting religion back into schools. And abortion. And telling gays not to be gay.

215 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:29:56pm

re: #207 Obdicut

The thing is, you're now devoutly avoiding discussing their aims; you ran away from your claim that they were clear and honest very quickly.

Horseshit. They've stated clearly that they want lower taxes and less spending. . Your response was "oh, but they have no idea how they'd do that." That doesn't prove anything about their honesty.

I consider these views honest because they're ordinary people getting out there and protesting. Nobody is paying them to say this stuff.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:30:11pm

re: #214 sagehen

Except for warrantless wiretaps. And putting religion back into schools. And abortion. And telling gays not to be gay.

less government means fewer resources and more laws that criminalize basic human behavior

217 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:30:28pm

re: #94 darthstar

Image: miracles.jpg

Image: beavis-and-butthead.jpg

Hehehheh hmhmh heheheh "Oral" hheheheh heheh heheh

218 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:30:33pm

re: #214 sagehen

and controlling our sex lives.

219 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:30:53pm

re: #214 sagehen

Except for warrantless wiretaps. And putting religion back into schools. And abortion. And telling gays not to be gay.

Don't forget torture, denying the right to a trial, and re-writing of history, science and literature.

Don't forget the thought police of the Texas BOE.

Don't forget that they want to tell half the population how to run their uterus.

220 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:19pm

re: #122 KingKenrod

The HCR reform law is pretty moderate (it was moderated to win conservative Democratic votes), with the exception of the individual mandate. The support of the insurance company was bought with a provision that sanctions every citizen who does not buy insurance company product. I find this idea radical.

I'll let go of the mandate, if you let go of the idea that emergency rooms have to treat everyone who needs emergency treatment.

221 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:30pm

re: #209 Johnny2Times

Ok, well now you're just being ridiculous. I said that it's not surprising people are drawn to the tea party because the GOP spends like a drunken sailor when its in power. That's not what many conservatives want.

Let me guess: now I have to define "drunken sailor."

The only people drawn to the tea party are the ones who are so ignorant they don't realize they're buying the same shit they complain about.

222 rhino2  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:32pm

re: #136 WindUpBird

MORE TALKING POINTS ahaha

That talking point especially pisses me off, it's said as if people who don't agree with that platform obviously aren't hardworking, real Americans. Fuck that.

223 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:43pm

re: #215 Johnny2Times

Horseshit. They've stated clearly that they want lower taxes and less spending. .

Okay. Again: If they've stated it very clearly, what taxes do they want lowered, and what spending do they want cut?

224 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:43pm

re: #215 Johnny2Times

Horseshit. They've stated clearly that they want lower taxes and less spending. . Your response was "oh, but they have no idea how they'd do that." That doesn't prove anything about their honesty.

I consider these views honest because they're ordinary people getting out there and protesting. Nobody is paying them to say this stuff.

So they want lower taxes and less spending, but vote GOP which clearly spends more than the Dems and has for the last 60 years?

225 Radical Rafe  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:50pm

re: #157 WindUpBird

That comment was a joke, right? Like, you forgot to put on a sarc tag?

226 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:31:56pm

re: #219 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't forget torture, denying the right to a trial, and re-writing of history, science and literature.

Don't forget the thought police of the Texas BOE.

Don't forget that they want to tell half the population how to run their uterus.

Of course. That's been a major issue at tea party rallies--they love torture.

227 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:32:39pm

re: #130 SpaceJesus

is this place more conservative during the day or something

Yes, the retired people go to sleep at 8pm local time.

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:33:13pm

re: #215 Johnny2Times

I consider these views honest because they're ordinary people getting out there and protesting. Nobody is paying them to say this stuff.

So wait a minute, by virtue of the fact that someone is protesting that means they're honest? :D

Or is "honest, hardworking, ordinary" code word for conservative white Christians who are angry at the scary muslim president?

Something tells me you wouldn't describe many people in my town (Portland) as honest, hardworking, or ordinary because they live in a city and they vote for liberals

229 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:33:18pm

Why is my Pandora "Cake" station suddenly playing Michael Jackson?

I don't get the Music Genome project sometimes.

230 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:33:25pm

re: #223 Obdicut

Okay. Again: If they've stated it very clearly, what taxes do they want lowered, and what spending do they want cut?

Why are you asking me for specifics? I've never been to a tea party rally, nor am I part of any organized tea party group. They've clearly stated they want lower taxes. If you want to know all the details, why don't you go to their website, or better yet, ask people involved?

231 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:33:35pm

re: #226 Johnny2Times

Of course. That's been a major issue at tea party rallies--they love torture.

Yes they do. Find me a teabag who thinks it was wrong to water board arabs.

And while we are at it, what about Teabags being opposed to free religious expression and the property rights of those who wish to build a house of worship?

232 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:33:42pm

re: #223 Obdicut

Okay. Again: If they've stated it very clearly, what taxes do they want lowered, and what spending do they want cut?

You know, TAXES! That 2005 Chevy Malibu isn't going to pay for itself.

233 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:34:19pm

NYT/CBS poll:


The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45.
...(snip)...
Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent think that the administration favors blacks over whites — compared with 11 percent of the general public.

They are more likely than the general public, and Republicans, to say that too much has been made of the problems facing black people.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

234 sagehen  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:34:42pm

re: #135 Johnny2Times

Exactly. SOME. But it seems like most as fiscal--not social--conservatives. Criminalizing abortion has not been part of their main platform thusfar

Yes it is.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

235 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:34:48pm

re: #230 Johnny2Times

Why are you asking me for specifics? I've never been to a tea party rally, nor am I part of any organized tea party group. They've clearly stated they want lower taxes. If you want to know all the details, why don't you go to their website, or better yet, ask people involved?

Well when teabags are asked these sorts of questions, they tend to not have any particular clue what they want in general either.

236 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36:05pm

re: #227 sagehen

Yes, the retired people go to sleep at 8pm local time.

I'm in bed by 9pm.....How close to retirement am I
by your reckoning???
Would it be different "reckoning" if I told ya I'm up at 4:30 am
7 days a week??
I'll keep my fingers crossed for early retirement!

237 palomino  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36:16pm

re: #57 imp_62

Ummm - No. Pragmatic I will give you, but I don't think of him as a moderate. Moderates don't pound through healthcare legislation while the economy is spiralling out of control.


Sure, he's left of center. But nothing near the far left dangerous radical caricature created by the right.

The health care plan was basically the same system used in MA, signed into law by a Republican.

And much of the foundation of the plan were modeled on gop plans from the 1990s.

238 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36:34pm

re: #235 LudwigVanQuixote

Well when teabags are asked these sorts of questions, they tend to not have any particular clue what they want in general either.

So what? I never stated that they had an amazing plan. I do like the basic idea behind the movement--smaller government.

239 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36:57pm

re: #230 Johnny2Times

Why are you asking me for specifics?

Because you've stated that their aims and goals are clear. If you're unable to tell me what their aims and goals are, then you have, in fact, lied to me.

240 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36:58pm

re: #41 negativ
My favorite statement from the article:

The dingbat revolution, it seems, is nigh.

241 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:37:02pm

re: #230 Johnny2Times

Why are you asking me for specifics? I've never been to a tea party rally, nor am I part of any organized tea party group. They've clearly stated they want lower taxes. If you want to know all the details, why don't you go to their website, or better yet, ask people involved?

Well, if you're not a teabagger, you sure do a damn fine impression of one.

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

242 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:37:20pm

re: #238 Johnny2Times


smaller government in some ways, bigger government in others.

243 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:37:43pm

re: #234 sagehen

Yes it is.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

How many of those GOP candidates are also considered "tea party candidates"?

244 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:37:45pm

re: #238 Johnny2Times

So what? I never stated that they had an amazing plan. I do like the basic idea behind the movement--smaller government.

Do you like all the anti-science positions and completely indefensible lies of your candidates?

That's what I like best, I like everything that comes out of O'Donnell's mouth, because every day it's like fresh comedy

245 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:38:09pm

re: #242 SpaceJesus

smaller government in some ways, bigger government in others.

"Fucked in the head" is how I'd sum them up.

246 MarkAM  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:38:28pm

re: #237 palomino

And the center is far to the right of where it was 20 years ago.

247 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:39:05pm

re: #241 darthstar

Well, if you're not a teabagger, you sure do a damn fine impression of one.

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Smaller government!
Less Taxes!
Government hands off my medicare!

Er, um.
I'm not a teabagger either.
But I've got no problem with those particular things.

248 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:39:14pm

re: #241 darthstar

When I was a kid, I remember watching the neighbor take bad care of his new bike, tossing it down on the ground and leaving it out in the rain, etc, and always said "if I had a new bike, i would take care of it and polish it and put it inside in the rain, etc..."

And i got a new bike. And after a few weeks, i left it lying out in the rain.

Right now, the Tea Party is that kid staring at the other kids bike and saying he will take better care of his own bike...

249 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:39:18pm

re: #243 Johnny2Times

How many of those GOP candidates are also considered "tea party candidates"?

Angle
Miller
Buck
Paul
O'Donnell

There's five. Now you find five tea bagger candidates who DO support abortion, and we'll be equal.

250 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:39:37pm

re: #245 darthstar

"Fucked in the head" is how I'd sum them up.


less taxes, more aircraft carriers!

less taxes, gunships, mines, and millions of soldiers for the border!

less government intrusion into our lives, more laws against homos and women

251 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:40:12pm

re: #250 SpaceJesus

less taxes, more aircraft carriers!

less taxes, gunships, mines, and millions of soldiers for the border!

less government intrusion into our lives, more laws against homos and women

Yep...fucked in the head.

252 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:40:18pm

re: #247 reine.de.tout

But you could actually rationally point out what you wanted taxes lowered on, what you wanted cut, etc.

That is a rather large difference.

253 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:40:42pm

republicans make me angry

254 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:40:51pm

re: #239 Obdicut

Because you've stated that their aims and goals are clear. If you're unable to tell me what their aims and goals are, then you have, in fact, lied to me.

Jesus, how old are you?

255 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:41:16pm

re: #247 reine.de.tout

Er, um.
I'm not a teabagger either.
But I've got no problem with those particular things.

Yes, but you're intelligent enough to articulate what kinds of taxes you think need to be lowered, and you understand that medicare is a government service.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:41:31pm

re: #195 Johnny2Times

Gah, I probably should ignore this, but i'll ask anyway.

What would I need to "back up" my observation that tea partiers say they want smaller government and lower taxes?

I think everyone here agrees that that's one of the things they say they want. Their actual candidates, signs, organizers, speeches, and etc. say some other things.

257 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:42:10pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

Do you like all the anti-science positions and completely indefensible lies of your candidates?

That's what I like best, I like everything that comes out of O'Donnell's mouth, because every day it's like fresh comedy

What do you mean "my" candidates? I'm Canadian for God's sake. Some of you guys are ASSuming too much.

258 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:42:48pm

re: #254 Johnny2Times

I'd be guessing but I think around 2047 years?
Is that close?

259 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:43:29pm

re: #254 Johnny2Times

Jesus, how old are you?

Thirty-three. Wait, thirty-four. Just had a birthday. Always confuses me.

But I'm not Jesus.

re: #121 SpaceJesus


That's Spacejesus, maybe you were thinking of him?

But again: How are their positions clear if you can't actually tell me what their positions are? Saying "lower taxes" isn't a position, any more than "lower the crime rate" and "a chicken in every pot" is a position.

260 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:44:02pm

re: #249 darthstar

Angle
Miller
Buck
Paul
O'Donnell

There's five. Now you find five tea bagger candidates who DO support abortion, and we'll be equal.

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:44:36pm

re: #247 reine.de.tout

Er, um.
I'm not a teabagger either.
But I've got no problem with those particular things.

"government hands off my medicare" was sort of a meme, because it's a thing that contradicts itself

262 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:44:36pm

re: #257 Johnny2Times

What do you mean "my" candidates? I'm Canadian for God's sake. Some of you guys are ASSuming too much.

Oooohh! Oh No. You. Di'int! ASS-uming! We have a smart one here...and please don't claim to be a Canadian...I have a lot of family in Canada, and they're not that ignorant.

263 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:45:06pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

I'm only asking you to name five. I named five. You name five. Go on...

264 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:45:17pm

re: #259 Obdicut

Thirty-three. Wait, thirty-four. Just had a birthday. Always confuses me.

But I'm not Jesus.

Look, I don't mind being trolled on here, but at least make it somewhat funny.

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:45:17pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

big difference between "you must carry a rape baby to term" GOP candidates and a pro-life Democrat

266 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:45:20pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

Find me a democrat running for office who is against abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

267 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:46:06pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.


There's a BIG difference between supporting abortion and wanting it to remain safe and legal. I'm pro-life, but I will never try to tell other women what to do with their reproductive system.

268 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:46:16pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

Ummm excuse me? Find me a single one who would restrict it in the case of medical danger, rape or incest.

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:46:20pm

re: #257 Johnny2Times

What do you mean "my" candidates? I'm Canadian for God's sake. Some of you guys are ASSuming too much.

The candidates you seem to be advocating for and spouting their exact boilerplate rhetoric

so yes, for purposes of this thread, they're damn sure your candidates :D

270 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:46:25pm

re: #263 darthstar

I'm only asking you to name five. I named five. You name five. Go on...

I like this game! You can come over to my place and my mom will serve us rice krispie squares and tang.

271 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:46:49pm

re: #266 jamesfirecat

Find me a democrat running for office who is against abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

Very few people "support" abortion, they are just not in favor of forbidding the option to those women who choose it. Especially in cases of rape, incest or health risks.

272 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:47:19pm

re: #253 SpaceJesus

republicans make me angry

They should. They are evil after all.

273 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:47:44pm

re: #268 LudwigVanQuixote

Ummm excuse me? Find me a single one who would restrict it in the case of medical danger, rape or incest.

I'm tired of people telling me to "find" things. Didn't realize this was a fucking scavenger hunt.

274 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:48:31pm

re: #273 Johnny2Times

I'm tired of people telling me to "find" things. back up what I say with a scrap of evidence. Didn't realize this was a fucking scavenger hunt.


FTFY

275 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:48:41pm

re: #273 Johnny2Times

I'm tired of people telling me to "find" things. Didn't realize this was a fucking scavenger hunt.

This is where you are expected to back up claims you make, and instead you say a lot of very silly things, apparently.

276 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:51:14pm

re: #275 Obdicut

This is where you are expected to back up claims you make, and instead you say a lot of very silly things, apparently.

Except your idea of "backing up" things means outlining a practical plan for lowering taxes, when that was never the point in question.

You're a fucking moron.

277 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:52:10pm

re: #276 Johnny2Times

Except your idea of "backing up" things means outlining a practical plan for lowering taxes, when that was never the point in question.

You're a fucking moron.

My idea of backing up things involves you providing a link to ANY tea party platform.

Yet you fail.

278 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:52:15pm

re: #273 Johnny2Times

I'm tired of people telling me to "find" things. Didn't realize this was a fucking scavenger hunt.

Yes, wingnuts always hate it when challenged to bring facts.

News for you. At LGF, we actually debate - which means construct fact based arguments that bring one to a logical conclusion. Just spouting slogans is for dimwits. We make fun of dimwits here.

So it is really simple, bring some sort of game to the table or be perceived as a dullard who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

279 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:52:54pm

Most right wing sites are giant echo chambers full of people reinforcing each other's prejudices. If you're used to that, it can be a somewhat wrenching experience to come to a place like LGF where you're expected to back up assertions with facts. It's common for a person in that situation to respond with hostility, confusion, and personal attacks.

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:53:04pm

re: #276 Johnny2Times

Except your idea of "backing up" things means outlining a practical plan for lowering taxes, when that was never the point in question.

You're a fucking moron.

It's a bit relevant, I'd say.

Really, I'm supposed to want to vote for these guy's pathetic candidates because they said the magic words, 'we want to lower taxes'?

Hell, I want to abolish DEATH! Vote for me!!!

281 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:53:40pm

re: #276 Johnny2Times

Except your idea of "backing up" things means outlining a practical plan for lowering taxes, when that was never the point in question.

I mean explaining what the Tea Party position on lowering taxes is-- what taxes they want lowered. "Lowering taxes" is a meaningless statement, if it means, for example, lowering the tax on bulgar wheat by .0005%. It only becomes meaningful when it's stated which taxes they actually want lowered.


You're a fucking moron.

Temper, temper.

282 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:53:40pm

re: #278 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, wingnuts always hate it when challenged to bring facts.

News for you. At LGF, we actually debate - which means construct fact based arguments that bring one to a logical conclusion. Just spouting slogans is for dimwits. We make fun of dimwits here.

So it is really simple, bring some sort of game to the table or be perceived as a dullard who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

www.teapartypatriots.org/

There. Happy? You guys can search the site to your heart's content.

283 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:54:18pm

re: #279 Charles

a somewhat wrenching experience

Heh.

284 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:54:49pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist


Hell, I want to abolish DEATH! Vote for me!!!

No, vote for me! I support death, but only for the bad people.

Why does my opponent, San Francisco Zionist, want Osama to live forever?

//

285 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:54:53pm

re: #279 Charles

Most right wing sites are giant echo chambers full of people reinforcing each other's prejudices. If you're used to that, it can be a somewhat wrenching experience to come to a place like LGF where you're expected to back up assertions with facts. It's common for a person in that situation to respond with hostility, confusion, and personal attacks.

What "facts" did I state that require backing up? I observed that many conservatives are embracing the tea party, and that the tea partiers want less spending and lower taxes.

I didn't realize this was a controversial position.

286 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:55:22pm

re: #279 Charles

Most right wing sites are giant echo chambers full of people reinforcing each other's prejudices. If you're used to that, it can be a somewhat wrenching experience to come to a place like LGF where you're expected to back up assertions with facts. It's common for a person in that situation to respond with hostility, confusion, and personal attacks.

I just had an image of a National Geographic Special...

Bobo the silver back ape, is confused by his new environment. After making a threat display (Bobo pounds chest) and finds that the robot is not frightened of him, he becomes enraged...

287 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:55:53pm

re: #282 Johnny2Times

www.teapartypatriots.org/

There. Happy? You guys can search the site to your heart's content.

And what on that site backs up anything that you have been saying?

288 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:56:23pm

re: #273 Johnny2Times

I'm tired of people telling me to "find" things. Didn't realize this was a fucking scavenger hunt.

This is a place were if you make a statement of fact, you can and generally will be called upon to back it up with a verifiable link if you haven't already done so in your original post. Same with opinions in some cases.

289 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:56:42pm

re: #282 Johnny2Times


Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.


Hurray! No more farm subsidies, food safety regulations, or import duties!

290 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:56:50pm

re: #285 Johnny2Times

What taxes do they want lowered, Johnny?

And if you can't answer, how do you know they actually want taxes lowered?

291 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:57:03pm

re: #254 Johnny2Times

Jesus, how old are you?


This is just a guess, but somewhere around 2,010 years old.

292 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:57:51pm

re: #285 Johnny2Times

What "facts" did I state that require backing up?

You said they were honest about their aims.

293 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:58:32pm

re: #289 jaunte

Hurray! No more farm subsidies, food safety regulations, or import duties!

Huh. The Free Market principles that our nation was founded on, eh?

So we abolish corporate personhood! Sounds good to me.

294 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:58:45pm

Here's a working link for that free market pablum.
[Link: www.teapartypatriots.org...]

295 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:59:03pm

re: #159 Johnny2Times

Yes, and it's not just Charles who posts those. The media loves them too. They don't characterize the majority of tea partiers though.

If you think the majority are anti-gay and racist, the burden of proof is on you.

Where are the moderate Muslims Teapartiers calling out the extremists?

296 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:01:12pm

re: #293 Obdicut

The more specific anyone gets about political reality, the smaller the anti-Obama-administration tent gets.

297 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:01:27pm

re: #282 Johnny2Times

www.teapartypatriots.org/

There. Happy? You guys can search the site to your heart's content.

Well, fuck...that took all of thirty seconds...

Democrats, Socialists, Communists, Big Unions – THESE are the groups working together, closely, that are working to change our nation, abandoning our Constitution and freedoms. There is no better proof than the “Endorser” page of the website of the upcoming One Nation rally in Washington D.C. PLEASE take a look at this page and note the supporting groups, including the Communist Party USA, AFL-CIO, CWA, American Federation of Teachers, NAACP, various Democratic Party organizations, official socialist organizations, on and on and on. These are the true radical, extremist groups that have banded together to destroy our nation, preferring a Stalinist, East Berlin-style communist government. These are the people working to take away ALL our freedoms.


[Link: www.teapartypatriots.org...]

Sane group of friends you have there...sheesh.

298 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:01:46pm

re: #285 Johnny2Times

What "facts" did I state that require backing up? I observed that many conservatives are embracing the tea party, and that the tea partiers want less spending and lower taxes.

I didn't realize this was a controversial position.

You claimed that they have a clear position. A clear position is one that actually makes sense and is clearly expressible - not just a slogan. Hey I am opposed to aging! I want to outlaw that!

You claimed that they are not racist. You ignored the parts of their platform that stem entirely from fear and prejudice. You forgot the part of their platform that is anti-science, anti-woman, homophobic, anti-intellectual, and interested in imposing a certain low-brow Christianity on the rest of the nation.

You forgot the parts that are anti-American by being opposed to basic rights of free-expression, free religious expression, presumed innocence and the government not invading your bedroom.

You are simply whitewashing them and not saying anything with substance.

299 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:01:53pm

The Free market (TM) is also an ideology, and an ideal.

A free market needs a functioning physical and legal infrastructure in order to operate, that is the role of government in the market.

We saw what happened to the financial markets when government retreated and left it a free-for-all.

300 Johnny2Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:02:23pm

re: #290 Obdicut

What taxes do they want lowered, Johnny?

And if you can't answer, how do you know they actually want taxes lowered?

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

301 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:03:06pm

re: #290 Obdicut

What taxes do they want lowered, Johnny?

And if you can't answer, how do you know they actually want taxes lowered?

Ouch...

302 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:03:55pm

re: #300 Johnny2Times

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

It means maybe you need to look for some more information

303 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #300 Johnny2Times

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

It means that you're wrong when you say that their position is clear, yes.

Is this a breakthrough? Are you getting it?

304 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:04:01pm

re: #300 Johnny2Times

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

That is a pointless and unentertaining attempt at a diversion from a well posed question. Why do you think you have any sort of a parallel there when bringing that strawman?

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:04:14pm

re: #300 Johnny2Times

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

No, but it does mean that what they said is basically meaningless without further context.

Did I mention that I believe in a Good Society?

306 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:04:20pm

re: #12 rwmofo

FortunatelyUnfortunately, the tea parties have pulled in an enormous amount of centrist/independents bigots and uninformed morons who are going to send a lot of left-wing democrat politicians into retirement...in their dreams.

FTFY...

Seriously, the Tea Party hate-on cannot sustain itself, once more and more people become hip to what the slimebags who have co-opted it have and are doing.

307 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:04:39pm

we don't need highways or the FDA, stupid democraps

308 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:04:50pm

re: #300 Johnny2Times

So if I hear someone say "I'm against killing innocent people" but I don't know who exactly they consider an innocent person, that means I'm somehow "wrong"?

No, it means you've got your head firmly lodged inside your sphincter. Answering a question with a question is dodging the question. You're actually not nearly as entertaining as you think you are, by the way.

309 jaunte  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:05:02pm

re: #299 ralphieboy

We want a free market, but we don't want to buy cane sugar from foreigners.

310 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:05:02pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

No, but it does mean that what they said is basically meaningless without further context.

Did I mention that I believe in a Good Society?

And I believe that attractive women should be encouraged to wear mini-skirts!

311 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:06:18pm

re: #307 SpaceJesus

we don't need highways or the FDA, stupid democraps

Seatbelts, airbags, impact zones and standards of safety are part of the Communist conspiracy to undermine the US automobile industry

312 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:06:27pm

re: #293 Obdicut

Huh. The Free Market principles that our nation was founded on, eh?

So we abolish corporate personhood! Sounds good to me.


Don't forget OSHA and child labor laws.

313 Ericus58  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:06:36pm

re: #227 sagehen

Yes, the retired people go to sleep at 8pm local time.

Or a person that awakes at 3:30am each day for work.... and stays at work for 9-10 hours.

314 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:06:43pm

re: #311 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seatbelts, airbags, impact zones and standards of safety are part of the Communist conspiracy to undermine the US automobile industry

Don't forget bike lanes!

315 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:07:21pm

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

And I believe that attractive women should be encouraged to wear mini-skirts!

Penalties should be assessed and fines levied for abuse of said mini-skirts.

316 Kragar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:07:57pm

re: #314 darthstar

Don't forget bike lanes!

No, those are part of the Islamic Supremacist Agenda.

317 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:08:53pm

re: #316 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, those are part of the Islamic Supremacist Agenda.

I get all my agendas mixed up...it's hard being an infidel.

318 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:09:04pm

re: #312 CarleeCork

Don't forget OSHA and child labor laws.

Might be worth it to get rid of the liability shield provided by corporate personhood; child labor is less attractive when they can sue the shit out of you.

319 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:10:01pm

taking care of kids who need medical treatment is exactly what the bible tells us not to do, and god knows, we are a christian nation to the core.

damn godless commies

320 CarleeCork  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:10:13pm

BBL

Time to rustle pots and pans.

321 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:11:27pm

re: #319 SpaceJesus

taking care of kids who need medical treatment is exactly what the bible tells us not to do, and god knows, we are a christian nation to the core.

damn godless commies

God wants us to build the facilities, he just wants those kids to be able to pay for it themselves. As the Bible says (I think) The Lord helps those who help themselves.

/

322 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:11:28pm

re: #317 darthstar

I get all my agendas mixed up...it's hard being an infidel.

I've got a heavy, dirty agenda on my hands right now.

Laundry.

323 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:12:04pm

re: #226 Johnny2Times

Of course. That's been a major issue at tea party rallies--they love torture.

Well, this tea partier does.

And this one.

And this one.

324 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:16:27pm

re: #323 Alouette

Well, this tea partier does.

And this one.

And this one.

I love you Alouette!

325 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:16:39pm

re: #323 Alouette

Well, this tea partier does.

And this one.

And this one.

I love the protester with the upside-down sign in the second picture.

326 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:17:58pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

I love you Alouette!

Hi Ludwig.. I leave for Oklahoma in the morning...Road trip my friend

327 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:18:26pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks for the upding - I have had a rough afternoon on this thread O_o

328 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:18:27pm

re: #326 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig.. I leave for Oklahoma in the morning...Road trip my friend

I love a good road trip!

329 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:19:52pm

re: #326 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig.. I leave for Oklahoma in the morning...Road trip my friend

Be careful to avoid wearing certain shades of orange once you get down there. Especially this weekend!

330 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:22:27pm

re: #328 LudwigVanQuixote

I love a good road trip!

I messed up...My car is packed with clothes..I should have had the movers take more clothes..Cause I can't fit no more in the car...Winston is riding shotgun.. I'm leaving several bags of clothes behind...Shopping trip!
Jeez I'm dumb! LOL

331 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:23:05pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

US Mail may be less expensive than JCP...

332 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:23:39pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

Holy crap! You're MOVING to Oklahoma? I hope it's one hell of a job.

333 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:23:48pm

re: #331 imp_62

US Mail may be less expensive than JCP...

Amtrak is even cheaper.

334 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:24:19pm

re: #333 Obdicut

Amtrak is even cheaper.

and Greyhound.

335 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:25:51pm

re: #334 darthstar

and Greyhound.

Can you even imagine how your clothes would smell after hours in the belly of a Greyhound bus? It's been years since I travelled regularly by bus, and I can still smell it - the mix of toilet sanitizer, air fresh, and sweaty passengers.

336 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:26:58pm

re: #332 darthstar

Holy crap! You're MOVING to Oklahoma? I hope it's one hell of a job.

Yup..In the morning...My stuff is already there...We are opening a new office across the Street from OU...I was supposed to move to Singapore but got slotted to OK..I go where they send me...

337 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:27:44pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Yup..In the morning...My stuff is already there...We are opening a new office across the Street from OU...I was supposed to move to Singapore but got slotted to OK..I go where they send me...

lot longer drive to Singapore...

338 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:28:56pm

Want lower taxes, get rid of the waste.

Cargo Security Program Wasted $2 Billion, says Senator

"A failure to communicate between two Department of Homeland Security agencies on advanced supply chain security technology was a factor in the waste of $2 billion in taxpayers' money, members of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee said Wednesday."

Stimulus funds going to slashed programs

The administration's budget plan says the corps and USDA programs are inefficient and duplicate similar, more effective work by other agencies. The proposed cuts indicate the programs shouldn't have gotten money from the $862 billion stimulus package, said Tom Schatz of the non-partisan budget watchdog Citizens Against Government Waste.

And that Johnny, is how you post at LGF.

339 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:29:21pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Yup..In the morning...My stuff is already there...We are opening a new office across the Street from OU...I was supposed to move to Singapore but got slotted to OK..I go where they send me...

Well, Oklahoma's a lot like Singapore except it's less American looking.
/

340 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:29:58pm

Deafening silence from the wingnuts about O'keefe getting busted attempting to manufacture news. They aren't even going to acknowledge it.

341 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:30:10pm

re: #337 imp_62

lot longer drive to Singapore...

I was going to stay in a high rise Apt. In the trade free zone..I had planned to stick my stuff in storage..But that all changed

342 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:30:14pm

But don't tell that to a Tea Bagger. They claim they aren't republicans.

343 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:30:38pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

It's a chance to get some new threads! See it as an adventure.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Deafening silence from the wingnuts about O'keefe getting busted attempting to manufacture news. They aren't even going to acknowledge it.

O'Keefe already did damage beyond their wildest dreams.

345 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:32:09pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Deafening silence from the wingnuts about O'keefe getting busted attempting to manufacture news. They aren't even going to acknowledge it.

Is this a new bust? got a link?

346 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:32:39pm

re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote

O'Keefe already did damage beyond their wildest dreams.

O'Keefe was a one-trick pony. He failed on his second big attempt (Sen. Landrieu) and now he's pissed off his biggest ally - the media.

347 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:32:48pm

re: #139 Johnny2Times

Ok, then. Go to a rally and ask people there. I have no idea why you're asking me to state all of their objectives specifically and defend them.

I don't have to, Matt Tiabbi already did it for me.


"Let me get this straight," I say to David. "You've been picking up a check from the government for decades, as a tax assessor, and your wife is on Medicare. How can you complain about the welfare state?"
"Well," he says, "there's a lot of people on welfare who don't deserve it. Too many people are living off the government."
"But," I protest, "you live off the government. And have been your whole life!"
"Yeah," he says, "but I don't make very much."
...
The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending — with the exception of the money spent on them. In fact, their lack of embarrassment when it comes to collecting government largesse is key to understanding what this movement is all about

THIS is the average Tea Party "member" they live next door to me and work with my husband...I live in the South and I run into these "ordinary" "hardworking" folks all over the place.
They love their medicare, they lovelovelove disability payments, food stamps ect. for them and their family members...they just hate knowing other people (mostly the brown ones) are also getting those "entitlements" from big government.

348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:32:57pm

re: #345 Amory Blaine

Is this a new bust? got a link?

Couple of threads down from here.

349 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:33:06pm

re: #345 Amory Blaine

Is this a new bust? got a link?

350 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:33:19pm

re: #339 darthstar

Well, Oklahoma's a lot like Singapore except it's less American looking.
/

I used to go to Bartlesville for business. As you got closer to Bartlesville, the signs changed from "Have you hugged your child today?" to "Have you hugged Jesus today?". Nobody ever missed the flight home.

351 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:34:00pm

re: #347 webevintage

And they want their non-existent taxes lowered.

352 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:35:18pm

re: #350 imp_62

I used to go to Bartlesville for business. As you got closer to Bartlesville, the signs changed from "Have you hugged your child today?" to "Have you hugged Jesus today?". Nobody ever missed the flight home.

It's ironic that they don't want Jesus coming across the border...they expect people to go to Mexico to hug him?

353 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:36:11pm

re: #352 darthstar

It's ironic that they don't want Jesus coming across the border...they expect people to go to Mexico to hug him?

If the historical Jesus tried to cross the border they'd probably shoot him...

/

354 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:36:24pm

re: #183 Charles

And yet, here you are spouting Tea Party talking points. What a coincidence!

"I live in Canada and think a lot of your country."

re: re: #257 Johnny2Times

What do you mean "my" candidates? I'm Canadian for God's sake.

Coincidence, indeed...

355 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:37:19pm

re: #347 webevintage

There are also people on the TP spectrum who have theirs, and don't want to share -- doctors, lawyers, bankers. It's the old Pink Floyd lyrics come to life:

Money get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off my stack

Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that
Do goody good bullshit

356 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:38:17pm

re: #352 darthstar

It's ironic that they don't want Jesus coming across the border...they expect people to go to Mexico to hug him?

lol. Thanks... BTW applies to Jesus and all the Angels...

357 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:38:26pm

re: #352 darthstar

It's ironic that they don't want Jesus coming across the border...they expect people to go to Mexico to hug him?

When I was in Oklahoma in August i was checking out the radio stations..
Did you know half of the Stations want to save my everlasting soul and only need 20 bucks to do it? Raise your hands..Touch your Radio and cry hallelua

358 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:40:14pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

When I was in Oklahoma in August i was checking out the radio stations..
Did you know half of the Stations want to save my everlasting soul and only need 20 bucks to do it? Raise your hands..Touch your Radio and cry hallelua

Don't EVER raise your hands. Makes it easier to pick your pocket.

359 darthstar  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:43:11pm

Fiorina-Boxer debate is on...I've got a meeting so I can't listen...but here's a link for those who want to:

[Link: www.scpr.org...]

360 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:44:42pm

re: #359 darthstar

Fiorina-Boxer debate is on...I've got a meeting so I can't listen...but here's a link for those who want to:

[Link: www.scpr.org...]

I clicked the link. Now I have to go grab a few fingers of bourbon.

362 webevintage  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:45:24pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

bullshit

363 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:45:44pm
364 Gus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:46:04pm

re: #363 imp_62

I don't get it.

Tin foil to make tin foil hats.

365 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:47:09pm

re: #362 webevintage

bullshit

Nobody likes the idea of an abortion. The issue is choice and who has that choice; and the idea that certain decisions are between man, woman and their God.

366 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:47:39pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

I love you Alouette!

I love you too sweetie!

367 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:48:07pm

re: #364 Gus 802

Tin foil to make tin foil hats.

Hehe. I would never use tinfoil supplied by a third party to make my anti-CIA brain control hat. I mine my own by dumpster diving.

368 Gus  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:48:40pm

re: #367 imp_62

Hehe. I would never use tinfoil supplied by a third party to make my anti-CIA brain control hat. I mine my own by dumpster diving.

Good point. Then you can get your tin foil and a snack.

/

369 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:51:02pm

re: #368 Gus 802

Good point. Then you can get your tin foil and a snack.

/

Maybe a Dumpster Muffin...

///

370 shutdown  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:54:04pm

I am listening to the Fiorina - Boxer debate. Without taking sides, I think it is fair to say I would last 5 minutes as a political candidate. Exactly the time it would take for my opponent to ask the first insulting, misleading loaded question and for me to reach across and choke the life out of him.

371 deranged cat  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:55:14pm

anybody see this yet? This guy is absolutely nuts.

Andrew Shirvell, a MI state official, videotapes, follows and protests a random college student who happens to be gay. This Andrew guy states that the student has a political agenda, and that the student being a homosexual doesn't give him a free pass for criticism... but neither of them are running for office of any kind. At this point, it seems like Andrew Shirvell (who totally looks and sounds like the MOST heterosexual guy EVER :cough: :cough:) is just a STALKER, obsessing about this poor kid.

372 BenghaziHoops  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:56:34pm

re: #370 imp_62

I am listening to the Fiorina - Boxer debate. Without taking sides, I think it is fair to say I would last 5 minutes as a political candidate. Exactly the time it would take for my opponent to ask the first insulting, misleading loaded question and for me to reach across and choke the life out of him.

Final statements.. Interesting

373 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:58:41pm

re: #359 darthstar

Fiorina-Boxer debate is on...I've got a meeting so I can't listen...but here's a link for those who want to:

[Link: www.scpr.org...]

Gah, that makes me so glad I do not live in CA. I'd hate to have to vote in that race. I'd hold my nose & pick Boxer but that's a barely lesser of evils kind of choice. Those of you out there, of all political persuasions, you have my sympathy.

374 freetoken  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 1:59:33pm

re: #371 deranged cat

That story came to the forefront yesterday when some Anderson Cooper featured it, or rather, that the head AG is trying to disown his assistant.

375 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 2:12:02pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid.


They say if you can't spot the fish at the poker table...it's you.

376 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 2:36:11pm

re: #260 Johnny2Times

This is becoming laughably stupid. A huge percentage of Dems don't support abortion either.

Damn few people support abortion. My experience is that they regard it as a matter between a woman and her doctor, and they would prefer that if it must be done it should be performed in a sterile environment by a competent professional.

Luckily, there are many ways to avoid abortion. But the 'pro-lifers' are against those too.

378 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:17:47pm

re: #335 imp_62

Can you even imagine how your clothes would smell after hours in the belly of a Greyhound bus? It's been years since I travelled regularly by bus, and I can still smell it - the mix of toilet sanitizer, air fresh, and sweaty passengers.

Don't forget diesel exhaust.....

I love the smell of diesel exhaust in the morning..... it smells like.... travel.

379 Meitantei  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:23:48pm

Woo! First post!
What fascinates me about Johnny's post is how much he indirectly talks more or less about the concepts of will or feelings It doesn't matter that the Tea Party people have no clue how to actually cut spending, they honestly want to, and that's good enough because they're Real Americans.
I thought these guys were supposed to be the Ayn Rand uber-rational people, and instead they blabber about such things. Is that a way to run a country? By what amounts to wishes? It's the province of basically children.

380 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:32:46pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Shit just got real in the CA governor's race

Meg Whitman's Former Housekeeper Will Allege She 'Suffered' As A Household Employee

The only thing that has me concerned regarding the veracity of the housekeeper's claims is the presence of Gloria Allred. For some reason, every time I see her or hear her name, I think, "Here comes the circus."

381 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:39:42pm

re: #144 darthstar

Name one actual job ordinary, hard-working Christine O'Donnell has held. Ordinary, hard-working Sharron Angle is a career politician. Ordinary, hard-working Rand Paul is an optometrist, yes, but he's an exception.

Opthalmologist, not optometrist. Either way, I doubt that he's spent much time working at profession for which he trained lately, just like dear old Dad.

382 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:45:34pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

When I was in Oklahoma in August i was checking out the radio stations..
Did you know half of the Stations want to save my everlasting soul and only need 20 bucks to do it? Raise your hands..Touch your Radio and cry hallelua

Only half? Things have improved in the 26 years since I lived existed there.

383 ClaudeMonet  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:47:54pm

re: #373 wlewisiii

Gah, that makes me so glad I do not live in CA. I'd hate to have to vote in that race. I'd hold my nose & pick Boxer but that's a barely lesser of evils kind of choice. Those of you out there, of all political persuasions, you have my sympathy.

Amen. When you're a Democrat and the SF paper doesn't endorse you, you know you're a POS.

And Fiorina's record of business "leadership" speaks for itself.

384 Mich-again  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:05:43pm
The Tea Party “movement” has been largely an astroturf operation from the very beginning, a way to legitimize the far right of the GOP.

I disagree with the claim the Tea Parties were an astroturf operation from the beginning. "Astroturf" is word to describe when a political organization is funded/controlled by a small number of large donors, all the while trying to appear to the general public that they are funded/controlled by a large number of small donors. Fake grass roots = astroturf.

The Tea Parties did start out as a real grass roots movement and their rallies were filled with real people, not shipped in busloads of professional protesters. There are a million ways to rightfully criticize the Tea Parties and their agenda, but to claim their grass roots are fake doesn't make sense to me. Its a perfect example of a grass roots movement.

385 wiffersnapper  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:44:30pm

Glad I'm in the other 29%! Thanks Charles!

386 donna quixote  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:46:43pm

I will be joining the independents although , as one, I would still be stuck with the idiots nominated by the Dems or the GOP. I was very chagrinned when I learned that the women with whom I rode to my only tea party visit were used to attending pro life demonstrations.
The GOP I joined years ago had many more moderates. I cannot accept the 'holy roller' mentality.

387 TEWalker  Thu, Sep 30, 2010 7:23:41am

Concur with those who mention Nixon; once the antithesis of liberal politics in the US, he is (with the obvious exception of his paranoia and borderline bigotry) seeming quite moderate in retrospect. Case in point: his health plan had a public option.


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