Violent British Anti-Muslim Gang Connects with Tea Party Movement

The violent British anti-Muslim gang known as the English Defence League (a group of football hooligans and criminals with roots in the neo-Nazi British National Party) is developing links with the Tea Party movement — and is being legitimized in America by Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and their Bigot Brigade. The Observer has a piece on this disgusting development: English Defence League forges links with America’s Tea Party.

An Observer investigation has established that the EDL has made contact with anti-jihad groups within the Tea Party organisation and has invited a senior US rabbi and Tea Party activist to London this month. Rabbi Nachum Shifren, a regular speaker at Tea Party conventions, will speak about Sharia law and also discuss funding issues.

The league has also developed links with Pamela Geller, who was influential in the protests against plans to build an Islamic cultural centre near Ground Zero. Geller, darling of the Tea Party’s growing anti-Islamic wing, is advocating an alliance with the EDL. The executive director of the Stop Islamisation of America organisation, she recently met EDL leaders in New York and has defended the group’s actions, despite a recent violent march in Bradford.

Geller, who denies being anti-Muslim, said in one of her blogs: “I share the EDL’s goals… We need to encourage rational, reasonable groups that oppose the Islamisation of the west.”

Devin Burghart, vice-president of the Kansas-based Institute for Research & Education on Human Rights, said: “Geller is acting as the bridge between the EDL and the Tea Party. She plays an important role in bringing Islamophobia into the Tea Party. Her stature has increased substantially inside the Tea Party ranks after the Ground Zero mosque controversy. She has gained a lot of credibility with that stuff.”

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177 comments
1 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:57:05am

Nachum Shifren is clearly useful to these people on account of he has a beard and 'Rabbi' before his name.

He should think very, very carefully about being useful to such people.

I also don't quite get what his qualifications to speak on Sharia are.

2 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:57:20am

I can imagine a DNC ad out of this.

Crows from one power line fly into stormy skies, then another group joins, and they fly around cawing and flapping away. Then a clip of an EDL protest, a clip of a few racist signs at a Tea Part rally. Fade back to the crows. Deep voice "Birds of a Feather Flock Together" with faint riot sounds. "Is that the government you want? Please vote in November."

3 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:57:31am

Businessman bankrolls ‘street army’

“We are catching a baby at the start of a gestation,” Lake later told The Guardian. “We have a problem with numbers. We have an army of bloggers [on the far right] but that’s not going to get things done.

“Football fans are a potential source of support. They are a hoi polloi that gets off their backsides and travels to a city and they are available before and after matches.” [Link: www.hopenothate.org.uk...]

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:59:42am

Am I the only one who looks at these creeps with their shaved heads and their Nazi salutes and thinks that if it's them or the Islamic fundamentalists that actually IS a hard choice to make?

//

5 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:00:06am

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

Nachum Shifren is clearly useful to these people on account of he has a beard and 'Rabbi' before his name.

He should think very, very carefully about being useful to such people.

I also don't quite get what his qualifications to speak on Sharia are.

He is also known as "The Surfin' Rabbi"

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:01:25am

re: #5 Alouette

He is also known as "The Surfin' Rabbi"

Yeah. He surfs, and used to teach in public school in LA--he wrote a book about that called "Kill Your Teacher"--and he used to live in the West Bank, and now he's a Sharia expert and Tea Party candidate? Interesting career.

7 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:03:06am

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

Achmed don't surf.

8 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:04:24am

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. He surfs, and used to teach in public school in LA--he wrote a book about that called "Kill Your Teacher"--and he used to live in the West Bank, and now he's a Sharia expert and Tea Party candidate? Interesting career.

I just checked his bio over at "surfingrabbi.com" and it appears that he attended Chabad yeshivos in Israel, but he is not endorsed by any Chabad organization.

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:04:29am
10 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:04:44am

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

It's easy, only one choice is called for. Or maybe two as in the reactions of emotional disgust and mindful resistance for either on sight.

11 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:06:17am

Those St. George cross masks look like the plague has returned
[Link: thevirtualworld.blogspot.com...]

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:07:18am

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Achmed don't surf.

Well, there is a Surf Club in Gaza City.

13 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:09:03am

The fringes send out feelers & connect some.

I think it was ever thus.

14 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:09:57am

re: #13 Ojoe

Now you can see it better, though, thanks to this blog.

15 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:10:02am

re: #9 Charles

Also from Bartholomew: Alan Lake thinks Hitler was a leftist/Darwinist:
[Link: barthsnotes.wordpress.com...]

16 Lidane  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:11:15am

re: #13 Ojoe

Except that the Tea Party is astroturfed and supported by major players in American politics. It's not that much of a fringe movement, at least in terms of their influence in the GOP.

Sure, you have nutjobs like Paladino and O'Donnell running, but the overall Tea Party movement is backed by some pretty powerful folks on the right. Having that same movement start making connections with the EDL and other far right European movements? Bad, bad idea.

17 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:13:27am

I don't think the street tactics of the EDL are going to take hold here in the US. The elderly and obese Tea Partiers aren't going to get out of their lawnchairs much less riot and clash with police.

18 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:14:24am

re: #16 Lidane

Yeah it is bad. But I think that connecting might not have been what the astro-turf backers intended at all.

It is playing with fire to back this stuff.

It would be safer to let it just be "natural" and not boost it.

It would be smaller.

19 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:14:56am

re: #16 Lidane

Agreed. The EDL is just a front for the BNP. It's very bad to mix them in with American politics.

20 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:16:41am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

I don't think the street tactics of the EDL are going to take hold here in the US. The elderly and obese Tea Partiers aren't going to get out of their lawnchairs much less riot and clash with police.

Yeah, especially American police.
You know, the heavily armed types.
;)

21 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:18:01am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

That's more common here with the left as in anti WGO, Anarchists, and the wilder immigration advocates like MECHA. The DNC riots were quite a sight in LA last time around.

22 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:18:22am

re: #20 Varek Raith

The elderly and obese Tea Partiers aren't going to get out of their lawnchairs much less riot and clash with police.

MONTY PYTHON IMAGES !

23 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:30:13am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

I don't think the street tactics of the EDL are going to take hold here in the US. The elderly and obese Tea Partiers aren't going to get out of their lawnchairs much less riot and clash with police.

And the underemployed, disaffected recruiting base is the wrong "demographic".

24 nines09  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:40:35am

Tea Party and the Fascists. Perfect. Newt? Rush? Glenn? Any thoughts? Any insights? Anything resembling disgust? Stupefying.

25 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 11:40:56am

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, there is a Surf Club in Gaza City.

I've seen the East Med beaches--good for drinking Taibeh, bad for rides.

26 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:05:04pm

Where'd everybody go?

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:06:12pm

re: #26 Alouette

Where'd everybody go?

Dunno. I'm about to go in to work for a couple of hours.

28 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:06:20pm

re: #26 Alouette

Where'd everybody go?

Curling.
Or football.
Or some such.
;)

29 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:07:29pm

re: #26 Alouette

Where'd everybody go?

Many Alabamans are in seclusion.

30 dragonfire1981  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:10:35pm

re: #16 Lidane

But the most dangerous elements of the Tea Party AREN'T astroturfed, they're the red state, Fox news watching, gun toting, Obama hating that are likely to commit violent acts.

And that's scary.

31 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:13:25pm

re: #28 Varek Raith

Curling.
Or football.
Or some such.
;)

I, on the other hand, am playing Dwarf Fortress.

32 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:26:32pm

re: #30 dragonfire1981

But the most dangerous elements of the Tea Party AREN'T astroturfed, they're the red state, Fox news watching, gun toting, Obama hating that are likely to commit violent acts.

And that's scary.

That's a scattered local problem so far, but the diffuse TP leadership has so positioned themselves that they can never dissuade them from a "2nd Amendment" fix.

33 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:28:44pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno. I'm about to go in to work for a couple of hours.

So you wont be at the Zionist conspiracy meeting then?

34 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:30:00pm

I have pie!

35 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:31:43pm

re: #34 Alouette

I have pie!

Share?
Image: puppy-dog-eyes.jpg

36 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:33:11pm

re: #34 Alouette

I have pie!

Don't show this to FBV.

[Link: njuice.com...]

37 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:35:12pm

re: #36 Decatur Deb

Don't show this to FBV.

[Link: njuice.com...]

We're doomed.

38 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:37:38pm

Some sad news out of Norman today. A young gay man committed suicide after some of the comments at a city council meeting about GLBT History Month.

[Link: normantranscript.com...]

39 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:41:19pm

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

Some sad news out of Norman today. A young gay man committed suicide after some of the comments at a city council meeting about GLBT History Month.

[Link: normantranscript.com...]

Shit. The kid should have grabbed a Greyhound to the Coast. Any Coast.

40 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:44:16pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Colorado (except Colorado Springs) is good too. Haven't told anyone here, but I am from Colorado Springs. Went to High School there (when I was far more liberal), which wasn't fun.

41 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:45:43pm

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

Numerous residents also claimed the Bible was their guiding light, citing the ancient text as their primary reason for opposing the proclamation and the GLBT community in general.

Dammit.
Where in the Bible to they get this BS.

42 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:46:48pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

A completely backwards reading of Sodom and Gomorrah, really.

43 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:47:33pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

Dammit.
Where in the Bible to they get this BS.

It's high time to address the Christian lifestyle and how it is being used to vilify gay Americans.

44 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:47:33pm

re: #42 Obdicut

A completely backwards reading of Sodom and Gomorrah, really.

Wow...

45 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:56:11pm

re: #43 eclectic infidel

It's high time to address the Christian lifestyle and how it is being used to vilify gay Americans.

Not all. One of these welcoming Presbyterian churches is led by an old friend from college. I once helped get him out of jail, but that was another social justice issue.

[Link: www.welcomingresources.org...]

46 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:57:40pm

Hatred is never the basis for anything good. It needs to be confronted. Charles has been in the forefront. Now if people in the Mideast (and elsewhere)
could also learn this lesson, there might be hope for the world.

47 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:59:01pm

re: #42 Obdicut

A completely backwards reading of Sodom and Gomorrah, really.

"It's not their fault, just it's not their book. You never see a rabbi on TV interpreting the New Testament, do you?"

-Lewis Black

48 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 12:59:41pm

re: #45 Decatur Deb

Not all. One of these welcoming Presbyterian churches is led by an old friend from college. I once helped get him out of jail, but that was another social justice issue.

[Link: www.welcomingresources.org...]


Yes, yes, there are Christians who aren't bigots but that's not enough to give Christianity as a whole a pass. Not anymore.

49 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:02:18pm

re: #48 eclectic infidel

Yes, yes, there are Christians who aren't bigots but that's not enough to give Christianity as a whole a pass. Not anymore.

Sure it does. Abraham argued God down to 10 just men.

50 SteelGHAZI  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:03:18pm

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

And no doubt some of the bigots are proud of this. *spit*

51 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:04:25pm

re: #48 eclectic infidel

Yes, yes, there are Christians who aren't bigots but that's not enough to give Christianity as a whole a pass. Not anymore.

No kidding... and that's a good rule to work by when we decide to not give ALL of Islam a pass because it's has a fringe group of radical members who would like to kill all infidels.

Glad you brought that up. Words to live by.

52 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:06:15pm

Someone needs to dig up some old Roman city council minute scrolls where they discuss allowing/tolerating Christians in their town. Probably concerned about them spreading into the education system and "infecting" the citizenry with non-civil ideas.

You know, MBF work...

//

53 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:11:15pm

Match the words of Jesus in the NT against the religious bigots condeming gay Americans. Take the challenge to the pulpit where the vilification is coming from - the pulpit at the church or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Christians nor all of Christianity, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

54 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:14:13pm

re: #53 eclectic infidel

Match the words of Jesus in the NT against the religious bigots condeming gay Americans. Take the challenge to the pulpit where the vilification is coming from - the pulpit at the church or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Christians nor all of Christianity, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

Do you propose to de-certify Christianity? I wouldn't mind a much closer look at tax exemptions.

55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:15:41pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Do you propose to de-certify Christianity? I wouldn't mind a much closer look at tax exemptions.

Are they subject to anything similar to the rules for a 501c non-profit? I'd settle for that.

56 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:15:49pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Do you propose to de-certify Christianity? I wouldn't mind a much closer look at tax exemptions.

I would propose to disallow all tax exemptions for churches. Any truly community charitable works such as food banks, homeless shelters, etc. can earn tax exemption by their good works.

57 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:16:08pm

re: #53 eclectic infidel

Match the words of Jesus in the NT against the religious bigots condeming gay Americans. Take the challenge to the pulpit where the vilification is coming from - the pulpit at the church or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Christians nor all of Christianity, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

Ok... now you're being confusing... which approach would you suggest, the one that condemns all of Christianity as in your statement "Yes, yes, there are Christians who aren't bigots but that's not enough to give Christianity as a whole a pass. Not anymore." or the approach that doesn't condemn all of Christianity as stated above?

58 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:16:12pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Do you propose to de-certify Christianity? I wouldn't mind a much closer look at tax exemptions.


I am an advocate of revoking tax-free status where churches engage in politics outright. Let us indeed take a closer look.

59 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:17:26pm

re: #56 allegro

I would propose to disallow all tax exemptions for churches. Any truly community charitable works such as food banks, homeless shelters, etc. can earn tax exemption by their good works.

So... would this include all currently tax exempt charitable organizations NOT associated with a religion of a faith?

60 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:17:42pm

re: #56 allegro

re: #58 eclectic infidel

I'm leaning that way, particularly for my wife's church, the one whose seminary I attended.

61 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:18:38pm

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

So... would this include all currently tax exempt charitable organizations NOT associated with a religion of a faith?

Read what I said. A charitable organization should be given tax exemption.

62 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:19:50pm

re: #53 eclectic infidel

Match the words of Moderate Muslims in against the radical Islamist condemning Americans. Take the challenge to the mosques where the vilification is coming from - the Imam at the community centers or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Muslims nor all of Islam, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

63 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:20:02pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

or you're just confused.

64 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:20:59pm

re: #63 eclectic infidel

or you're just confused.

No I'm not... you made two contradicting statements, in a row, just wondering which one you consider the correct one.

65 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:21:52pm

re: #61 allegro

Read what I said. A charitable organization should be given tax exemption.

And a religious organization delivering the same sort of services wouldn't be given a tax exempt status?

66 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Match the words of Moderate Muslims in against the radical Islamist condemning Americans. Take the challenge to the mosques where the vilification is coming from - the Imam at the community centers or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Muslims nor all of Islam, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

I clarified my position and here you are, with your moralism and your assumptions. Nice, real nice.

67 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:23:31pm

re: #66 eclectic infidel

I clarified my position and here you are, with your moralism and your assumptions. Nice, real nice.

You contradicted you opinion, you didn't clarify anything. And, do you not agree with my comment?

68 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:26:48pm

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

And a religious organization delivering the same sort of services wouldn't be given a tax exempt status?

Once again, read what I said. Since you seem to be having difficulty with comprehension... A church by merit of simply being a church should not be tax exempt. An organization that does good works should be granted tax exemption based upon those good works and value to the community. A church that raises $100,000 in donations and uses $20,000 of those donaitons for a food bank should have $20,000 tax exemption and pay tax on $80,000 that it uses for the sole purposes of its building, church costs, etc. That clear it up for you?

69 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:28:10pm

I know this post will come across as a sort of retreat, but I do have to go. Besides, having to edit my posts before responding to Walter will eventually result in me saying something not so pleasant to him. I will strive to write clearer posts in the future whilst tempering my anger at yet another fine example of religious bigotry in the news.

I have a steering committee meeting to attend in the nearby city of Albany (north of Berkeley), for San Francisco Voice for Israel.

Good day.

70 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:37:34pm

re: #69 eclectic infidel

I know this post will come across as a sort of retreat, but I do have to go. Besides, having to edit my posts before responding to Walter will eventually result in me saying something not so pleasant to him. I will strive to write clearer posts in the future whilst tempering my anger at yet another fine example of religious bigotry in the news.

I have a steering committee meeting to attend in the nearby city of Albany (north of Berkeley), for San Francisco Voice for Israel.

Good day.

Not taken as a retreat. Have a good meeting.

71 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:38:48pm

re: #68 allegro

Once again, read what I said. Since you seem to be having difficulty with comprehension... A church by merit of simply being a church should not be tax exempt. An organization that does good works should be granted tax exemption based upon those good works and value to the community. A church that raises $100,000 in donations and uses $20,000 of those donaitons for a food bank should have $20,000 tax exemption and pay tax on $80,000 that it uses for the sole purposes of its building, church costs, etc. That clear it up for you?

Got it.

72 SpaceJesus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:44:16pm

re: #68 allegro


exactly how the law should be

73 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:48:46pm

re: #68 allegro

Once again, read what I said. Since you seem to be having difficulty with comprehension... A church by merit of simply being a church should not be tax exempt. An organization that does good works should be granted tax exemption based upon those good works and value to the community. A church that raises $100,000 in donations and uses $20,000 of those donaitons for a food bank should have $20,000 tax exemption and pay tax on $80,000 that it uses for the sole purposes of its building, church costs, etc. That clear it up for you?

Though I know of states that have laws for charitable non-profits that allow them to have/maintain property up to a certain value without paying property taxes. That would be something that churches should be allowed a similar benefit towards having meeting space and such for their congregation.

(The case I know of concerns fraternities/sororities having headquarters buildings in Indiana. And most (all?) national social fraternities operate as non-profits, often with an associated charitable non-profit education foundation.)

74 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:51:51pm

re: #73 oaktree

(The case I know of concerns fraternities/sororities having headquarters buildings in Indiana. And most (all?) national social fraternities operate as non-profits, often with an associated charitable non-profit education foundation.)

I would see them taxed as any other company - which they are. Provide tax exemption for the actual scholarships or whatever they may provide and costs associated.

75 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:54:35pm

re: #73 oaktree

That would be something that churches should be allowed a similar benefit towards having meeting space and such for their congregation.

Why should a church be exempt from property taxes on property which provides profitable equity? I'm thinking here of the example of megachurches that own millions of dollars in valuable real estate. Why should they be exempt from property taxes?

76 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:57:43pm

re: #75 allegro

Why should a church be exempt from property taxes on property which provides profitable equity? I'm thinking here of the example of megachurches that own millions of dollars in valuable real estate. Why should they be exempt from property taxes?

Note that my statement included the term "up to a certain value". If that was something like $500,000 it helps support smaller churches who have to work hard to afford a relatively small property. Wouldn't provide such cover for a mega-church, or one with multiple properties.

77 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 1:59:13pm

re: #76 oaktree

Note that my statement included the term "up to a certain value". If that was something like $500,000 it helps support smaller churches who have to work hard to afford a relatively small property. Wouldn't provide such cover for a mega-church, or one with multiple properties.

Noted. Still the question stands. Why should any size church be offered tax support to own property?

78 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:18:03pm

re: #77 allegro

Noted. Still the question stands. Why should any size church be offered tax support to own property?

As puzzling to me as your question is the question of why people like (especially) Benny Hinn are not in prison for fraud. Even Sylvia Browne is a "church" and therefore tax exempt. She should be in a cell somewhere, too.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:18:50pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Match the words of Moderate Muslims in against the radical Islamist condemning Americans. Take the challenge to the mosques where the vilification is coming from - the Imam at the community centers or in the political arena. This approach doesn't condemn all Muslims nor all of Islam, and it needs to be done. In my not so humble opinion, the religion itself has been given a pass and it is time to stop that behavior. That's it.

Who do you propose should do this?

80 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:21:01pm

re: #78 negativ

As puzzling to me as your question is the question of why people like (especially) Benny Hinn are not in prison for fraud. Even Sylvia Browne is a "church" and therefore tax exempt. She should be in a cell somewhere, too.

What is puzzling about my question? I do not at all disagree with your assessment of Benny and Sylvia. There is no contradiction here.

I still ask, why should a church be offered tax assistance to purchase property?

81 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:27:15pm

I think we should give no religious organization any tax exemption.
One of them is its own country for cripes sake.

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:33:36pm

re: #77 allegro

Noted. Still the question stands. Why should any size church be offered tax support to own property?

I will have to get back to you. I want to research a bit on why Indiana was willing to pass a law setting up such an exemption for social fraternal organizations.

My initial leaning is to respond that volunteer organizations, often totally dependent on voluntary donations and time, would benefit from a leg up regarding property used for meetings and administration. And that the state expects and recognizes voluntary social organizations as usually beneficial to the community. However, I want to do some further research and potentially make a response that I can support better.

83 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:33:46pm

re: #81 Varek Raith

I think we should give no religious organization any tax exemption.
One of them is its own country for cripes sake.

You'll be hearing from the Swiss Guard. Don't let the ghey uniforms fool you.

[Link: lettersfromrome.wordpress.com...]

84 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:36:34pm

re: #82 oaktree

However, I want to do some further research and potentially make a response that I can support better.

I'll be very interested in finding out what you turn up!

85 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:38:48pm

re: #83 Decatur Deb

You'll be hearing from the Swiss Guard. Don't let the ghey uniforms fool you.

[Link: lettersfromrome.wordpress.com...]


Bring it!
Image: 1221114383803.jpg.%5Broflposters.com%5D.myspace.jpg

86 lostlakehiker  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:41:22pm

re: #56 allegro

I would propose to disallow all tax exemptions for churches. Any truly community charitable works such as food banks, homeless shelters, etc. can earn tax exemption by their good works.

The power to tax is the power to destroy. And you know that sufficiently assertive, or generous-in-political-contributions, religions would manage to get all their activities certified as "good works". The others would run afoul of some rule or other and their soup kitchens would be disallowed because they said grace or something.

87 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:41:40pm

re: #85 Varek Raith

Ha! I once outlined a Sci-Fi story in which a revived Papal States resumed power in a fragmenting world. They were to keep a Swiss Guard rapid-reaction force in an orbital transport named "Prince of Peace".

88 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:42:16pm

re: #80 allegro

What is puzzling about my question? I do not at all disagree with your assessment of Benny and Sylvia. There is no contradiction here.

I just meant that I am also puzzled as to why churches should be exempt from property tax.

89 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:44:09pm

Last night I went to the B.B. King concert for an entertaining evening, paying for the ticket and my $9 beer (!). This morning my neighbors went to their church for an entertaining morning, making a donation to pay for their chosen entertainment. Both "shows" were equally valued by those attending. Both "shows" had equal value to the community, i.e. arguably none for those outside of the audience. What's the difference?

90 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:44:34pm

re: #88 negativ

I just meant that I am also puzzled as to why churches should be exempt from property tax.

Ah. I see. Neverrrrrrr mind.... :D

91 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:46:32pm

re: #86 lostlakehiker

The power to tax is the power to destroy. And you know that sufficiently assertive, or generous-in-political-contributions, religions would manage to get all their activities certified as "good works". The others would run afoul of some rule or other and their soup kitchens would be disallowed because they said grace or something.

Then these churches need to get the hell out of politics.

92 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:49:21pm

re: #88 negativ

I just meant that I am also puzzled as to why churches should be exempt from property tax.

There is an old and poorly-challenged assumption that churchgoing makes "better" citizens. It's a tit-for-tat symbiosis between secular and religious power.

93 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:50:12pm

OT Perhaps this has been mentioned.


Rioters Throw Molotov Cocktails At Gay Pride Parade In Belgrade, Serbia

BELGRADE, Serbia — Serbian riot police fought running battles Sunday with thousands of far-right supporters who hurled Molotov cocktails and stun grenades to try disrupt a gay pride march in downtown Belgrade. More than 140 people were hurt and more than 200 were arrested, officials said.

Thousands of police officers sealed off the streets in the capital where the march took place, repeatedly clashing at several locations with rioters who tried to burst through security cordons.

Several parked cars were set on fire or damaged, shop windows were broken, garbage containers were overturned and streets signs destroyed. Several shops were looted before police restored peace late afternoon.

The anti-gay rioters also fired shots and threw Molotov cocktails at the headquarters of the ruling pro-Western Democratic Party, setting the building's garage on fire. The state TV building and the headquarters of other political parties were also attacked, with many windows shattered by stones...

Scores held for Serbia Pride riot

Anti-gay protesters have fought running battles with police in an effort to disrupt a Gay Pride march in Belgrade - the first in the city since 2001.

Rioters threw petrol bombs and stones at armed police, who responded with tear gas and rubber bullets.

The office of the ruling Democratic Party was briefly set on fire, and at least one shot was fired.

Calm was eventually restored but more than 100 people, mostly police, were injured, with another 100 arrested.

Sunday's march was the first Gay Pride parade in Serbia since a 2001 event was broken up in violent clashes provoked by far-right extremists.
'Hooligan gangs'

Before the march, the head of the EU mission in Serbia, Vincent Degert, addressed around 1,000 gay activists and their supporters who gathered at a park in downtown Belgrade surrounded by riot police and armoured vehicles....

In pictures: Belgrade anti-gay riot

94 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:53:29pm

re: #93 Gus 802

Photos:

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

More here.

95 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:54:41pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Photos:

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

More here.

Let me try those photo links again which are here and here.

96 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:55:37pm

Looks like Russian nationalists here.

97 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:56:25pm

re: #91 Varek Raith

Then these churches need to get the hell out of politics.

Heavenly Bank Account

And the Governors agree to say:
"He's a lovely man!"
He makes it easier for
Them to screw
All of you . . .
Yes, that's true!

'Cause he helps put The Fear of God
In the Common Man
Snatchin' up money
Everywhere he can
Oh yeah
Oh yeah

He's got twenty million dollars
In his Heavenly Bank Account
You ain't got nothin', people

98 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:56:46pm

Rioters greet a Serbian Orthodox priest during the anti gay pride riots in Belgrade, Serbia, Sunday, Oct. 10, 2010. Riot police in Serbia clashed with hundreds of far-right supporters who tried to disrupt a gay pride march in downtown Belgrade on Sunday. More than a dozen people were injured, officials said.

Image: 999x.jpg

99 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:56:56pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Adrenaline junkies have a bloody resemblance:
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

100 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:58:18pm

A boy holds a balloon next to anti gay posters during protest in Belgrade, October 9, 2010. Nationalists staged the rally dubbed "A march of family people, for the defence of family and cancellation of gay parade", to protest against a pro- homosexual parade scheduled for Sunday in downtown Belgrade.

Image: 999x.jpg

101 allegro  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 2:59:20pm

re: #100 Gus 802

Charming.

102 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:00:08pm

A boy holds an Serbian flag during an anti-gay march organized in Belgrade, Serbia, Saturday, Oct. 9, 2010. This weekend's staging a gay pride march is expected to be a major test for Serbia's democracy after extremists forced the cancellation of last year's event, international human rights organizations said.

Image: 999x.jpg

103 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:02:46pm

re: #100 Gus 802

A boy holds a balloon next to anti gay posters during protest in Belgrade, October 9, 2010. Nationalists staged the rally dubbed "A march of family people, for the defence of family and cancellation of gay parade", to protest against a pro- homosexual parade scheduled for Sunday in downtown Belgrade.

Image: 999x.jpg

Just like the Phelps cult, but with bonus nationalism.

Nice.
/

104 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:05:33pm

re: #103 negativ

Just like the Phelps cult, but with bonus nationalism.

Nice.
/

The fascist hoodlums also have allies in the USA. These are the same types that are against Muslims. Apparently they were also chanting "death to homosexuals". This was a counter protest also backed by the Serbian Orthodox Church -- although not the riot (?).

Riots Erupt at Serbia Gay Pride Parade

105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:06:36pm

re: #84 allegro

I'll be very interested in finding out what you turn up!

[Link: www.waao.org...]

I found this early on. It's a guide to the various property tax exemptions in Wisconsin. I'm going to search more, but it minimally shows a very broad support for tax exemptions for a wide array of organizations - but I would say they generally fit under an umbrella definition that the organization be non-profit, and generally geared towards educational, health, cultural or other form of public service.

And a number of the exemptions have explicit limitations on the amount of property that can be exempt, or otherwise define limitations to keep things somewhat under control.

On the humorous side there is a sports stadium exemption, with clauses that obviously make the stadium of the Green Bay Packers not eligible.

106 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:08:47pm

Police running battles with anti-gay rioters in Serbia

Rioting begins at 0:43.

Thumbs up for the Serbian riot police.

107 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:09:40pm

I wonder if the Eurofascists are trying to join up with the Tea Party because they know there's Astroturf funding.

108 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:10:00pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

There is an old and poorly-challenged assumption that churchgoing makes "better" citizens. It's a tit-for-tat symbiosis between secular and religious power.

I think the discussion is going to center more around this point than any other. I don't think there is anyone not agreeing that charitable activity should get exemptions. But why should the explicit religious activity get the same exemptions.

109 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:12:47pm

re: #107 BigPapa

I wonder if the Eurofascists are trying to join up with the Tea Party because they know there's Astroturf funding.

I'm sure the TPers have deeper pockets. So I'm guessing yes. I just wonder about Europe's laws on international donation. Actually, they could just set up an office in the States.

110 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:18:56pm

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar

Maybe they saw this video:

That's the textbook definition of "shameless", by the way.

111 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:24:25pm

re: #110 negativ

Maybe they saw this video:

[Video]That's the textbook definition of "shameless", by the way.

Will you stay for dinner?
We're having the souls of orphans.
/

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:25:24pm

re: #110 negativ

Maybe they saw this video:

[Video]That's the textbook definition of "shameless", by the way.

I'm getting some of that paper for Christmas. Then I'm going shopping at the dollar store.:)

113 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:26:00pm

re: #111 Varek Raith

I take my vodka martinis with a splash of orphans' tears. I'll settle for widows' tears if you're out of the other.

114 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:26:25pm

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

115 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:27:47pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Hmmmm....

116 KronoGhazi  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:30:06pm

Huh?

117 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:35:07pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

How's that by running around like a bunch of idiots yelling at cops and climbing light fixtures? Right, save the "Western World" by forming an alliance with ties to neo-Nazi and other far-right European groups. What part of skinhead do you not understand?

118 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:35:12pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

You can't be serious.
9_9

119 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:35:44pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance.


Daft, absurd, inane.
120 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:37:26pm

re: #117 Gus 802

I it just me, or does that skinhead look like he's in a chior?

121 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:38:37pm

re: #120 Cannadian Club Akbar

I it just me, or does that skinhead look like he's in a chior?

Yeah, he does. They all seemed to have their mouths in that same oval position.

122 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:40:48pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Yeah, he does. They all seemed to have their mouths in that same oval position.

He's just looking for Kyle...
Image: Anyone-Seen-Kyle_500x500.jpg

123 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:42:57pm

re: #122 Varek Raith

He's just looking for Kyle...
Image: Anyone-Seen-Kyle_500x500.jpg

Speaking of which. Back to Serbia.

Serbs hold flags during a protest in the center of Belgrade on October 9, 2010 against a Gay Pride parade planned for October 10. Some 8,000 Serbs marched in Belgrade Saturday the planned Gay Pride parade. Participants ranged from families with children to young football supporters, some of whom gave Nazi salutes and shouted for the death of homosexuals.

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

124 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:50:35pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

A small percentage of the population are complete boneheaded idiots, and they are not helping anyone.

After the match, which Hull won 2-0, yobs ran amok in a shopping centre and threw bricks at coaches.
[Link: www.thesun.co.uk...]
125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:52:33pm

re: #124 jaunte

yobs ran amok in a shopping centre and threw bricks at coaches.

Sounds like a Raider fans here.
/kinda

126 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:56:04pm

Dr. Shalit, that's it?
You're not going to discuss?

127 jaunte  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:56:52pm

re: #125 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would bet that the earlier generation's version of footie hooligans didn't defeat any Nazis, but were followers of Mosley and evaded military service while providing muscle forblack market profiteers.

128 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:59:07pm

Where's Killgore?

Yo. Drudge linked to that Infowars article!

Warning to Glenn Beck: Don't Drink Diet Coke...

129 BishopX  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 3:59:39pm

Allegro,

The Church property tax exemption is based on the 1st amendment. The concept that "the power to tax is the power to destroy" was origanlly a federal supremacy concept. States were barred from taxing the federal government to prevent them from using the power of taxation to crush any program that they didn't like.

See here for more information.

This principle that taxation introduces government control has since been extended to churches. As long as the federal government can't tax them, the federal government theoretically can't do all that much to limit them. In return for this exemption religious institutions aren't supposed to be able to do all that much to influence the government.

Personally I like the idea of the separation of church and state, and I think the stronger the separation the better.

There are three problems with this, none of which is about tax exemptions:

1) The IRS isn't enforcing the ban on political speech, they don't have the agents, the inclination or the ability to listen to every sermon in America, much less all of the other religious speech. Even if they did, large churches have become partisan, which means any attempt at regulation would be seen as partisan. Given the christian oppression complex currently in vogue on the right, actually oppressing them (even legitimately) might just make it worse.

2) The definition of speech has changed faster than the applicable laws. Currently speech is considered to include the anonymous contribution of money. It's only against the tax code to endorse a specific candidate. This means churches can give anonymously to third party groups to support candidates with no consequences.

3)Bush made it possible to deduct certain religious contributions from personal income. This is wrong headed. It is also probably unconstitutional. The reason it is wrong is that prior to this, if you gave 100,000 dollars to a church, it was the equivalent of spending 100,000 dollars on any other consumer goods from the federal governments point of view. This meant that all the money in church coffers had already been taxed, just not when it was in the churches possession, now that that money is tax deductible, the federal government is subsidizing certain religious practices.

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:03:39pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Where's Killgore?

Yo. Drudge linked to that Infowars article!

Warning to Glenn Beck: Don't Drink Diet Coke...

Beck drinks Coke Zero (actually interviewed one of their marketing reps once) Does Coke Zero have caffeine?

131 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:05:19pm

re: #130 Cannadian Club Akbar

Beck drinks Coke Zero (actually interviewed one of their marketing reps once) Does Coke Zero have caffeine?

Don't know. It's some crazy conspiracy about him being poisoned with Diet Coke and the aspartame it contains. Said conspiracy also involves, Donald Rumsfeld. Very nutty stuff.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:06:16pm

re: #128 Gus 802

I also wonder if Infowars did a hard hitting piece on Christians who go out drinking on Saturday, go to church on Sunday, come home and drink more while watching football. Heh.

133 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:07:52pm

re: #131 Gus 802

I guess I didn't read far enough. But I've heard the point of your post. Probably here.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:08:20pm

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure the TPers have deeper pockets. So I'm guessing yes. I just wonder about Europe's laws on international donation. Actually, they could just set up an office in the States.

Also, it's easier to get away with certain sorts of crap outside the United States--I expect the courtin' goes both ways.

135 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:08:36pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Where's Killgore?

Yo. Drudge linked to that Infowars article!

Warning to Glenn Beck: Don't Drink Diet Coke...

Pathetic. I hope Beck just ignores them. I'd like him to tell Alex Jones off, but that's too much to ask for.

136 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:08:45pm

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

I guess I didn't read far enough. But I've heard the point of your post. Probably here.

Yep. From KT.

137 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:09:31pm

re: #130 Cannadian Club Akbar

Beck drinks Coke Zero (actually interviewed one of their marketing reps once) Does Coke Zero have caffeine?

Yes it does.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:09:41pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

Look at the pictures of those louts giving the salute of the same fascists their grandfathers defeated, and tell me again what fucking heroes they are.

139 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:12:33pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar

I also wonder if Infowars did a hard hitting piece on Christians who go out drinking on Saturday, go to church on Sunday, come home and drink more while watching football. Heh.

whatzzzs yer point...hic...you ghotta point orwhat...

//

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:12:47pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Don't know. It's some crazy conspiracy about him being poisoned with Diet Coke and the aspartame it contains. Said conspiracy also involves, Donald Rumsfeld. Very nutty stuff.

Why do I get the feeling that some of these folks resent it that you can't give spectral evidence in a US court? "I saw Donald Rumsfeld dancing with the devil! He sends his spirit abroad to make me drink diet cola!"

141 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:12:54pm

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

whatzzzs yer point...hic...you ghotta point orwhat...

//

Hey!
Long time no see!
Sup?

142 Gus  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:13:49pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do I get the feeling that some of these folks resent it that you can't give spectral evidence in a US court? "I saw Donald Rumsfeld dancing with the devil! He sends his spirit abroad to make me drink diet cola!"

I'm about to turn into something here! I just finished a Mexican Coke. All gone. Love the old bottle too.

143 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:14:09pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

With respect, you are wrong, sir! Those men have Hitler's symbol tattooed on their skin and, as SFZ pointed out, they give his salute. Their "detente" with some Jewish groups is only temporary. If they were able to expel all Muslims from the UK, they would surely come for your people. England needs defenders, yes, but defenders who really believe in what she stands for.

144 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:15:11pm

BBIAB. My friend is stopping by with bean and ham soup and beer. :)

145 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:18:27pm

re: #141 Varek Raith

Hey!
Long time no see!
Sup?

Of all things, i was laid off.

So i've been a little moody...for two reasons:

1. I didn't move my family all over the US climbing the corporate ladder for the past 10 years to get laid off by a yellow-bellied VP. I do my best to be laid back amongst friends, but i'm a competitive charger at work...so it's honestly a struggle not taking this too personally. I got too many pats on the back on the way out to take it personally...but it still chafes, you know?

2. On the other hand, the buyout he offered me to go quietly was...shall we say...impressive. So i'm also sheepish about how good of a situation i'm in compared to the millions of other people out of work.

So i kept away from LGF for a bit, because i sorta wanted to stew in my own juices without being a prick to any friends...and i have friends here.

But i think i'm cooling off.

Other than that...nothing much. How are you;)

146 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:19:39pm

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

I'm ok, I suppose.
Work hours were cut back.
15 hours for all of next week.
:/

147 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:20:32pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do I get the feeling that some of these folks resent it that you can't give spectral evidence in a US court? "I saw Donald Rumsfeld dancing with the devil! He sends his spirit abroad to make me drink diet cola!"

I have a few old friends who have grown up to believe that saccharin and aspartame are poison. Funny thing...none of them are what you'd call "science" types...sigh.

148 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:20:58pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

"Richard you rascal, I didn't know you were a dick!"
-Van Wilder

149 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:21:31pm

re: #146 Varek Raith

I'm ok, I suppose.
Work hours were cut back.
15 hours for all of next week.
:/

15??? Yowza. Yeah, this economy of ours is running like a pontiac with sugar in the tank...

150 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:24:13pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

SFZ--My teacher-daughter will be in SF next week to run the Nike Women's Marathon. I'll get her bib number so you can cheer if she runs by.

151 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:25:00pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

Sterner stuff = not wringing British hands at what might happen to the poor, put-upon Somali pirates after their trials, should they *gasp* be shipped off to a country with less-than-stellar human rights best practices.

Sterner stuff ≠ becoming the very thing they swore to destroy less than four score years ago...

152 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:25:54pm

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

Of all things, i was laid off.

Only in the rarest of circumstances can that be considered a good thing, but be thankful that you got a nice buyout. My employer laid off a bunch of people Friday, some who had been there for 10+ years, and get this: no severance package whatsoever, save for unused vacation time. I'm hoping nobody comes in shooting on Monday. We have armed security, but honestly they make Barney Fife look like Delta Force.

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:26:57pm

re: #147 Aceofwhat?

I have a few old friends who have grown up to believe that saccharin and aspartame are poison. Funny thing...none of them are what you'd call "science" types...sigh.

You could probably convince me they're not real good for you--what I'm missing is why that's Donald Rumsfeld's fault.

154 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:27:51pm

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

You could probably convince me they're not real good for you--what I'm missing is why that's Donald Rumsfeld's fault.


Yeah...
I'm stumped.

155 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:27:56pm

re: #147 Aceofwhat?

I have a few old friends who have grown up to believe that saccharin and aspartame are poison. Funny thing...none of them are what you'd call "science" types...sigh.

Parents of a friend of mine are convinced that processed sugar causes colon cancer. Not exactly "science types", a retired school teacher and a chemical engineer.

156 Stanghazi  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:28:55pm

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

Hi Ace! Sorry about your situation. You'll make though, I'm guessing.

Oh, and the Gators suck.

157 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:29:21pm

re: #152 negativ

Only in the rarest of circumstances can that be considered a good thing, but be thankful that you got a nice buyout. My employer laid off a bunch of people Friday, some who had been there for 10+ years, and get this: no severance package whatsoever, save for unused vacation time. I'm hoping nobody comes in shooting on Monday. We have armed security, but honestly they make Barney Fife look like Delta Force.

Yep. That's part of what's making me moody...every time i start to get an attitude about it, i feel guilty about how much better my situation is than most. Sometimes you just want to carry a little anger around, you know?

Now that the stung pride is wearing off, though, I'm doing a better job of just being grateful about my situation in light of the larger picture of things.

158 Varek Raith  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:30:13pm

re: #157 Aceofwhat?

Yep. That's part of what's making me moody...every time i start to get an attitude about it, i feel guilty about how much better my situation is than most. Sometimes you just want to carry a little anger around, you know?

Now that the stung pride is wearing off, though, I'm doing a better job of just being grateful about my situation in light of the larger picture of things.

I find shooting lightning at Ewoks makes me fell all warm and fuzzy (pun!) inside.

159 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:30:29pm

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

Normal to be shocky after something like that. At least you're in shape to hang in while we crawl out of the mud.

160 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:31:23pm

re: #156 Stanley Sea

Hi Ace! Sorry about your situation. You'll make though, I'm guessing.

Oh, and the Gators suck.

Oh, girlfriend, i thought about you these past two weekends. I figured the Alabama loss way in advance, but the LSU game caught me by surprise. The tigers are a fraud, and it was the Gators' job to expose them. Curses.

On the positive side, Ohio State and Nebraska are looking good...i think i'm the only person in Jacksonville who simultaneously roots for the Gators and the Big 10...

161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:31:39pm

re: #154 Varek Raith

Yeah...
I'm stumped.

Because he is seen by conspiracy nuts as an "evil corporate type!1". They have some serious fixations on people like that, which is why the Republican party will never accept them; Corporate types are the ones who fund the GOP.

162 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:32:39pm

re: #158 Varek Raith

I find shooting lightning at Ewoks makes me fell all warm and fuzzy (pun!) inside.

Having recovered somewhat from the shock and sting of it all, i'm ready to be open about a lot of things. Like buying Halo: Reach the day it came out and spending a little too much time shooting other people in the head...so yeah. I'm right with you there.

163 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:33:51pm

re: #155 oaktree

Parents of a friend of mine are convinced that processed sugar causes colon cancer. Not exactly "science types", a retired school teacher and a chemical engineer.

A chemE is buying that load? Huh...usually CE's are the best of the engineering crop (with apologies to other engineers in the room).

164 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:35:32pm

re: #163 Aceofwhat?

A chemE is buying that load? Huh...usually CE's are the best of the engineering crop (with apologies to other engineers in the room).

The science isn't settled!!1!

165 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:36:53pm

re: #158 Varek Raith

I find shooting lightning at Ewoks makes me fell all warm and fuzzy (pun!) inside.

Try Force Choking them instead: Their hides make lovely fur coats.

166 Stanghazi  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:37:16pm

re: #160 Aceofwhat?

Oh, girlfriend, i thought about you these past two weekends. I figured the Alabama loss way in advance, but the LSU game caught me by surprise. The tigers are a fraud, and it was the Gators' job to expose them. Curses.

On the positive side, Ohio State and Nebraska are looking good...i think i'm the only person in Jacksonville who simultaneously roots for the Gators and the Big 10...

Thanks for the thoughts!!! The only good thing about yesterday was my hero and first husband, Steve Spurrier beat Sabin's arse.

167 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:38:37pm

re: #163 Aceofwhat?

A chemE is buying that load? Huh...usually CE's are the best of the engineering crop (with apologies to other engineers in the room).

Actually I don't think he's buying it. I think he is keeping his mouth shut and nodding now and then in order to keep peace with his wife and one of his daughters. And he's the one that had colon cancer.

And I work with a lot of engineers. Generally smart people and often quite good at being "science types", or at a minimum understanding how science works. It's joked about a bit since engineers are every so often the source of some extremely wack pseudo-science.

168 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:39:20pm

re: #162 Aceofwhat?

Having recovered somewhat from the shock and sting of it all, i'm ready to be open about a lot of things. Like buying Halo: Reach the day it came out and spending a little too much time shooting other people in the head...so yeah. I'm right with you there.

Seen the not-exactly-a-trailer for Bioshock 3?

9 minutes of "holy shit, I have to build a new computer".

2012 at the soonest.

169 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:40:50pm

re: #168 negativ

Seen the not-exactly-a-trailer for Bioshock 3?

9 minutes of "holy shit, I have to build a new computer".

[Video]

2012 at the soonest.

Oh yeah. I needed a bib to watch it without making a mess//

170 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 4:42:47pm

re: #166 Stanley Sea

Thanks for the thoughts!!! The only good thing about yesterday was my hero and first husband, Steve Spurrier beat Sabin's arse.

That game was priceless...i loved it too. And watching Dantonio, recovering from the heart attack, choke the life out of Rich Fraudrigez' gimmicky Michigan team. And watching Stanford beat USC again.

Except for the friggin' Gators, it was a damn fine Saturday!

171 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 5:05:29pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

What a bunch of crap. Yeah, the way to "save Western civilization" is by wandering around town beating up people who look like they might be Asian. Idiot.

172 lostlakehiker  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 5:59:22pm

re: #155 oaktree

Parents of a friend of mine are convinced that processed sugar causes colon cancer. Not exactly "science types", a retired school teacher and a chemical engineer.

Indirectly and tangentially, they're correct. A diet devoid of bulk, devoid of fiber, etc. is a risk factor for colon cancer. If you get enough calories from sugar, you may be disinclined to eat your vegetables, whole grain breads, or anything else in that line.

173 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 6:29:37pm

re: #22 Ojoe

MONTY PYTHON IMAGES !

I was thinking along the lines of the "Walker Brigade" (early SNL?).

174 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 6:34:24pm

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

Some sad news out of Norman today. A young gay man committed suicide after some of the comments at a city council meeting about GLBT History Month.

[Link: normantranscript.com...]

Given how the Baptists in general and the SBC in particular hold a great amount of power in Oklahoma, I'm not surprised. Disgusted, but not surprised. When I lived in OKC, the Jewish congregations kept a lower than normal profile compared to synagogues in other cities. When you know you can't win, you try to survive and little more.

175 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 6:46:21pm

re: #114 Dr. Shalit

Lizardoids All-

British "soccer Hooligans" will save the Western World, given the chance. The UK didn't fight WWII , and defeat the "Nah-zees. to surrender to the likes of Capt. Hook Chaudary and his "Merry Jihadists." The UK is made of sterner stuff. -S-

Please don't take this personally, but--

What the f**k are you talking about?

re: #145 Aceofwhat?

Of all things, i was laid off.

So i've been a little moody...for two reasons:

1. I didn't move my family all over the US climbing the corporate ladder for the past 10 years to get laid off by a yellow-bellied VP. I do my best to be laid back amongst friends, but i'm a competitive charger at work...so it's honestly a struggle not taking this too personally. I got too many pats on the back on the way out to take it personally...but it still chafes, you know?

2. On the other hand, the buyout he offered me to go quietly was...shall we say...impressive. So i'm also sheepish about how good of a situation i'm in compared to the millions of other people out of work.

So i kept away from LGF for a bit, because i sorta wanted to stew in my own juices without being a prick to any friends...and i have friends here.

But i think i'm cooling off.

Other than that...nothing much. How are you;)

Welcome back. What's your field of expertise? Perhaps someone among us can turn up a lead or two for you.

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:47:56pm

re: #175 ClaudeMonet

shalit's been banned, don't bother

177 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:54:02pm

re: #176 WindUpBird

shalit's been banned, don't bother

That's no loss. ;-)

Thanks for the information!


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