What Right Wing Extremist Violence?

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In Michigan, a man is being investigated by the FBI after weapons, body armor, and bomb-making materials were found in his car, along with a laptop containing information about the crazy Christian militia group Hutaree: Sheriff’s lieutenant says FBI probing local case.

The FBI is investigating whether a Brighton-area man is connected to the Hutaree - a group police alleged in March had planned to kill officers - after a review of his laptop computer revealed “information regarding” the group, an Ingham County sheriff’s official said.

Meanwhile, Richard Scott McLeod was arraigned this week in Ingham County Circuit Court on a charge of carrying a concealed weapon after being stopped Sept. 13 for speeding. He also is charged with unlawful possession of body armor for allegedly having a military-style ballistic vest. …

In March, Hutaree, an organization the FBI called “an extremist anti-government militia” based in Lenawee County, captured headlines when the FBI arrested several members, claiming the group had planned to kill law enforcement officers with explosive devices.

Trojanowicz said preliminary investigation indicates McLeod had not appeared to have used the bombmaking items - gunpowder and other items along with instructions on how to make a bomb - found in his vehicle.

The Detroit Fox affiliate has more details; apparently McLeod’s car sported bumper stickers quoting Adolf Hitler, and contained a picture of Barack Obama: Man Arrested Found with Gun, Anti-Government Materials.

Richard Scott McLeod of Brighton was arrested Monday in Webberville on weapons charges and is under suspicion for potential threats against President Barack Obama.

On the outside of the 48-year-old’s vehicle were bumper stickers quoting Adolf Hitler. On the inside, police say there was a picture of Obama, a loaded gun, a bullet-proof vest and tips on how to build bombs.

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47 comments
1 darthstar  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:35:28am

I’m sure he’s just a landscaper looking for a tree of liberty that needs watering.

Fucking idiot.

2 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:36:36am

Thanks for an unsoiled thread.

3 Mark Pennington  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:36:54am

Scumbag.

4 pharmmajor  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:36:59am

I’m glad law enforcement is getting better at apprehending these nuts before they act.

5 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:39:37am

Was he carrying his Stormfront membership card in his wallet?

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:40:45am

The “black” Paulian is back in the Art Robinson thread. These people are completely insane.

7 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:44:10am

The Hutaree again? Some of the members of that group that were arrested earlier this year are now filing motions framing the situation as a 1st Amendment case:

In a motion filed today in federal court in Detroit, Stone Jr.’s attorneys, Todd Shanker and Richard Helfrick, argued that the government has no proof that the Hutaree members ever had a real plan to harm law enforcement officers. And any “alleged ‘discussions’ about harming members of law enforcement are clearly constitutionally protected,” they wrote.

“We just can’t ignore the First Amendment,” said Shanker, who claims that his client — based on audio recordings he has listened to — was never part of any discussions to harm anyone. “He doesn’t even talk. Basically, when he speaks, he does not have an unkind word to say about anybody. And so we’re just kind of left baffled as to why he’s charged here,” Shanker said.

I’ve got to disagree with Shanker. His clients were doing more than engaging in idle talk, and as seen with the most recent arrest, there are those who are associated with the group that are more than interested in doing something potentially violent along the way.

8 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:45:07am

re: #4 pharmmajor

Well he was an… shall we say… undergraduate challenge. Speeding and leaving all that is plain sight. Geez. We should be grateful he was not at all skilled, nor did he attack the police officer. Weird in many ways. .22 caliber pistol? Not exactly Rambo. May they all be easily caught fools like this.

9 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:45:51am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

Pimf
Leaving all that IN plain sight.

10 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:46:10am

//But I’m sure that there will be a crazy heavily armed liberal arrested any day now!

11 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:48:40am

re: #6 Charles

The “black” Paulian is back in the Art Robinson thread. These people are completely insane.

Hey must be flying under the radar well, I don’t see him on the bottom ten comments…

12 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:48:47am

re: #10 jamesfirecat
We should be so lucky as to have that happen.

13 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:49:17am

Other reports indicate that he may have had ties with other militia groups, who have denied any such membership:

He allegedly told officers he was a member of the Michigan Militia, but the Southwest Michigan Volunteer Militia, which owns the website Michigan Militia, says he is not a part of their group. The Lansing Militia told WILX, the NBC affiliate, he was not affiliated with their group either.
14 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:49:35am

re: #4 pharmmajor

I’m glad law enforcement is getting better at apprehending these nuts before they act.

The intertubes makes it easier for them to communicate and coordinate, also makes it easier to find the ‘chatty’ ones.

15 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:49:39am

re: #12 PhillyPretzel

We should be so lucky as to have that happen.

Why would we be lucky?

16 pharmmajor  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:49:51am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

//But I’m sure that there will be a crazy heavily armed liberal arrested any day now!

Eat a cheeseburger in front of an Animal Liberation Front member and you will obtain that result.

17 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:50:22am

re: #15 jamesfirecat

Okay. We don’t have to be lucky.

18 Gus  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:50:35am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

Well he was an… shall we say… undergraduate challenge. Speeding and leaving all that is plain sight. Geez. We should be grateful he was not at all skilled, nor did he attack the police officer. Weird in many ways. .22 caliber pistol? Not exactly Rambo. May they all be easily caught fools like this.

I noticed that the .22 caliber came up again. Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated with a .22 caliber revolver. The assassination attempt on then President Reagan, .22 caliber.

19 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:51:00am

re: #13 lawhawk

Other reports indicate that he may have had ties with other militia groups, who have denied any such membership:

Michigan Militia was quick to disavow the arrested Hutarees, found them a little too enthusiastic.

20 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:51:31am

re: #16 pharmmajor

Eat a cheeseburger in front of an Animal Liberation Front member and you will obtain that result.

If I do that and am not attacked physically you have to admit you’re being needlessly hyperbolic and engaging in a MBF argument.

Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case I think you forgot your tag, have one of mine.

/// /// /// /// /// /// ///

21 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:52:46am

re: #17 PhillyPretzel

Okay. We don’t have to be lucky.

If there are left wing crazies bent on violence we would be lucky to manage to capture them ahead of time yes.

We’d be even luckier if we managed to find a political cause in the US whose members didn’t see the need to resort to violence because their side lost an election….

22 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:53:21am

re: #18 Gus 802

Unusual in gun crimes. Of course those are the famous instances. Notably everyone hit at the Robert Kennedy shooting went down. Of course Reagan famously survived. If that had been a large caliber not a chance.

23 pharmmajor  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:53:47am

re: #20 jamesfirecat

Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case I think you forgot your tag, have one of mine.

/// /// /// /// /// /// ///

You’re quite lucky to have so many tags in this economy.

24 iossarian  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:53:55am

re: #16 pharmmajor

This is a false equivalence. ALF types are nutso, and no-one I know of would describe them as “liberal”.

25 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:54:22am

re: #21 jamesfirecat

True. Please forgive me I am not feeling too good today.

26 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:54:29am

re: #23 pharmmajor

You’re quite lucky to have so many tags in this economy.

Yeah electrons are expensive but I believe in sharing my wealth with the world.

27 garhighway  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:54:35am

re: #21 jamesfirecat

If there are left wing crazies bent on violence we would be lucky to manage to capture them ahead of time yes.

We’d be even luckier if we managed to find a political cause in the US whose members didn’t see the need to resort to violence because their side lost an election…

Combine a gun fetish with political disempowerment and there you are.

28 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:55:09am

re: #13 lawhawk

Other reports indicate that he may have had ties with other militia groups, who have denied any such membership:

This character sounds a lot like an internet wannabee. He’s likely brainwashed by the junk he reads, and is a lone wolf. What frightens me is the fact that there may be others out there who are less inept and capable of acting on their violent fantasies.

29 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:55:45am

There’s crazy and there’s crazy. These guys are crazy in the ordinary sense of the word. They’re unhinged and some of them are bent on violence. If it hasn’t come to actual violence yet, that’s just because the law has been one step ahead of them.

I doubt that they’re legally insane, in the sense that they think their bombs are actually watermelons or what have you. They know that killing people is regarded as wrong, they know that it’s illegal, and they know what their weapons would do if used: kill people. That makes them criminally responsible before the law for everything they do.

30 nines09  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:56:53am

Bumper stickers quoting Hitler? So the cops are profiling?
/////////////////////

31 pharmmajor  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:58:01am

re: #21 jamesfirecat

We’d be even luckier if we managed to find a political cause in the US whose members didn’t see the need to resort to violence because their side lost an election…

I was gonna say Libertarians have never reacted violently, but unfortunately we also have our share of crazies. Still, they are in the minority.

32 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:58:03am

re: #22 Rightwingconspirator

Unusual in gun crimes. Of course those are the famous instances. Notably everyone hit at the Robert Kennedy shooting went down. Of course Reagan famously survived. If that had been a large caliber not a chance.

Maybe, but if it were a larger caliber weapon the bullet might not have bounced off the door like the smaller one did.

33 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 9:59:33am

re: #29 lostlakehiker

There’s crazy and there’s crazy. These guys are crazy in the ordinary sense of the word. They’re unhinged and some of them are bent on violence. If it hasn’t come to actual violence yet, that’s just because the law has been one step ahead of them.

I doubt that they’re legally insane, in the sense that they think their bombs are actually watermelons or what have you. They know that killing people is regarded as wrong, they know that it’s illegal, and they know what their weapons would do if used: kill people. That makes them criminally responsible before the law for everything they do.

If you are acting in accordance with a culturally-imposed worldview, as many of these people do, you are not crazy. Joan of Arc was a saint, or crazy, or a witch. She still got to Rheims.

34 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:00:05am

The problem with most of these “crazies” is that they do not understand or do not want to understand that our government allows us to speak quite freely and as long there is no harm done or threatened.

35 Gus  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:02:31am

re: #22 Rightwingconspirator

Unusual in gun crimes. Of course those are the famous instances. Notably everyone hit at the Robert Kennedy shooting went down. Of course Reagan famously survived. If that had been a large caliber not a chance.

Yeah. Depends on the specific ammo, distance, etc. Law enforcement and the Secret Service doesn’t differentiate between calibers.

On a side note. Had Reagan not staggered or nearly collapsed he probably would have bled to death.

36 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:03:09am

re: #21 jamesfirecat

If there are left wing crazies bent on violence we would be lucky to manage to capture them ahead of time yes.

We’d be even luckier if we managed to find a political cause in the US whose members didn’t see the need to resort to violence because their side lost an election…

Speaking of losing elections, and of consequences, and of “crazy”, here’s an article in the New York Times, a notorious right wing rag //// explaining why raising taxes on high earners can backfire.

Yes, those with high incomes can afford to pay more in taxes. But, and this is the catch, their income is not written on the wall, beyond reach of change by human agency. How much they will earn depends on part on whether they’re permitted to keep any meaningful fraction of it.

Why work extra, their thinking will go, if they will never see a dime on the dollar out of the extra earnings?

classical marginal utility stuff..
The government can only set tax rates so high before the consequences to the overall economy of taxation create counterproductive drag.

When Richie Rich forgoes the extra income that comes from extra work, the government collects not 45 % instead of 40 %, but 0 % instead of 40%. What’s more, all earnings are the result of an exchange that benefited both parties. Richie Rich’s non earnings are one side of an exchange which would have meant earnings or some other economic benefit to the other party to the exchange. Again, taxes are lost. Also, the economy gets weaker by that much.

Liberals are not clinically insane when they miscalculate the consequences of their planned tax policies, or medical care legislation, or what have you. But the consequences are real and unfortunate, and they and their votes are the cause of the damage.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:06:29am

re: #16 pharmmajor

Eat a cheeseburger in front of an Animal Liberation Front member and you will obtain that result.

Uh, no. They may get red-faced, tearful and belligerent, but they’re highly unlikely to to this route.

38 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:08:00am

re: #36 lostlakehiker

Speaking of losing elections, and of consequences, and of “crazy”, here’s an article in the New York Times, a notorious right wing rag /// explaining why raising taxes on high earners can backfire.

Yes, those with high incomes can afford to pay more in taxes. But, and this is the catch, their income is not written on the wall, beyond reach of change by human agency. How much they will earn depends on part on whether they’re permitted to keep any meaningful fraction of it.

Why work extra, their thinking will go, if they will never see a dime on the dollar out of the extra earnings?

classical marginal utility stuff..
The government can only set tax rates so high before the consequences to the overall economy of taxation create counterproductive drag.

When Richie Rich forgoes the extra income that comes from extra work, the government collects not 45 % instead of 40 %, but 0 % instead of 40%. What’s more, all earnings are the result of an exchange that benefited both parties. Richie Rich’s non earnings are one side of an exchange which would have meant earnings or some other economic benefit to the other party to the exchange. Again, taxes are lost. Also, the economy gets weaker by that much.

Liberals are not clinically insane when they miscalculate the consequences of their planned tax policies, or medical care legislation, or what have you. But the consequences are real and unfortunate, and they and their votes are the cause of the damage.

The problem that Republicans often have is that when you get precious little in the way of a death tax,you eliminate the need for people to actually earn money since their families can do nothing but live off the interest of what their forefathers earned creating effectively a moneyed aristoicracy….

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:08:13am

re: #24 iossarian

This is a false equivalence. ALF types are nutso, and no-one I know of would describe them as “liberal”.

ELF has carried out some property attacks, and it’s widely believed by the FBI that EarthFirst’s famous car bombing was a ‘work accident’. Outside of that, left-wing violence has been pretty flat for about forty years.

40 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:09:07am

BBL

41 garhighway  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:10:12am

re: #36 lostlakehiker

Speaking of losing elections, and of consequences, and of “crazy”, here’s an article in the New York Times, a notorious right wing rag /// explaining why raising taxes on high earners can backfire.

Yes, those with high incomes can afford to pay more in taxes. But, and this is the catch, their income is not written on the wall, beyond reach of change by human agency. How much they will earn depends on part on whether they’re permitted to keep any meaningful fraction of it.

Why work extra, their thinking will go, if they will never see a dime on the dollar out of the extra earnings?

classical marginal utility stuff..
The government can only set tax rates so high before the consequences to the overall economy of taxation create counterproductive drag.

When Richie Rich forgoes the extra income that comes from extra work, the government collects not 45 % instead of 40 %, but 0 % instead of 40%. What’s more, all earnings are the result of an exchange that benefited both parties. Richie Rich’s non earnings are one side of an exchange which would have meant earnings or some other economic benefit to the other party to the exchange. Again, taxes are lost. Also, the economy gets weaker by that much.

Liberals are not clinically insane when they miscalculate the consequences of their planned tax policies, or medical care legislation, or what have you. But the consequences are real and unfortunate, and they and their votes are the cause of the damage.

It is indeed a sad thing for the world that Greg Mankiw will be speaking less.

But humor those of us who like historical context: how does this square with real-world behavior during the Clinton years? Did economist-for-hire speaking engagements go unfilled then?

And for you deficit hawks out there: how much deficit are you willing to suffer so Greg can get back on the road?

42 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:13:15am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, no. They may get red-faced, tearful and belligerent, but they’re highly unlikely to to this route.

They don’t use guns as far as I know. They prefer starting fires and blowing up shit, correct?

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:18:40am

re: #42 NJDhockeyfan

They don’t use guns as far as I know. They prefer starting fires and blowing up shit, correct?

ALF I don’t know about, although a quick scan of their Wiki page indicates such. ELF likes the arson-and-property damage route.

ELF last hit inside the US in 2008, causing several million dollars in property damage; they also claimed an attack on building machinery in Mexico in 2009.

44 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:53:07am

re: #41 garhighway

It is indeed a sad thing for the world that Greg Mankiw will be speaking less.

But humor those of us who like historical context: how does this square with real-world behavior during the Clinton years? Did economist-for-hire speaking engagements go unfilled then?

And for you deficit hawks out there: how much deficit are you willing to suffer so Greg can get back on the road?

You completely miss the point. If you raise tax RATES, at some point the net harm to the economy results in lower tax TAKE. Government is a business of sorts. A landlord cannot simply increase his income by raising rents. People will find a way to live somewhere else if rents are set too high. It’s the same with taxes. People will find a legal way around those higher tax rates: earn less.

There are pleasures in life that cost a lot, and others that cost but little. Money has its uses, but earning the money takes time. The tradeoff between money and leisure breaks more toward leisure the higher tax rates go.

Raising the system’s marginal rates on the rich from 28% to 30% will bring more revenue, and will not much harm the economy. Raising them from 30% to 32% will raise less additional revenue and will do more collateral damage. Raising marginal rates, (and we have to take ALL taxes into account, not just the rate from one particular tax) from 60% to 62% will probably result in very little extra revenue, and a lot more collateral damage. Raising marginal rates from 70% to 72% will probably result in overall LESS revenue, making both the economy, and the deficit, worse.

45 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 10:59:43am

re: #28 Reginald Perrin

This character sounds a lot like an internet wannabee. He’s likely brainwashed by the junk he reads, and is a lone wolf. What frightens me is the fact that there may be others out there who are less inept and capable of acting on their violent fantasies.

The “Lone Wolf” thing is part and parcel of the radical right’s strategy. You’ll notice that the most recent shooters have been described as “Lone Wolf” type events, but they were all influenced by the same core individuals. My recollections of who devised this, and how it works are a bit fuzzy but it is certainly being done intentionally.

Heck, McVeigh’s ties to the militia movement were distant enough for them to throw up their hands and say “not us” but close enough to see that was acting out their agenda.

46 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 1:01:26pm

re: #44 lostlakehiker

If you raise tax RATES, at some point the net harm to the economy results in lower tax TAKE.

This equates to ‘as tax rates approach zero, tax take approaches maximum’. This is obviously false.

This is the Laffer curve if it were just a Laffer incline.

47 dragonfire1981  Mon, Oct 11, 2010 2:42:25pm

re: #34 PhillyPretzel

But that’s what they want you to think!

Don’t you watch Fox News? Haven’t you heard that Obama is a socialist monster that’s going to destroy this country from the inside out? It’s a huge government conspiracy man and they’re all in on it!

[/sarcasm]

On a lighter note, I think I’m going to start my own Star Wars theme militia and call it Jabba the Hutaree.


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