Overnight Video: Modern Projection Mapping Meets Medieval Astronomical Clock
Video • Views: 4,478
Via Boing Boing, an incredible video-mapping show projected on the medieval astronomical clock in Prague’s Old Town Square.
318 comments
1 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:36:20pm |
Beautiful stuff. I love this type of artwork.
| 3 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:53:28pm |
If I may...
Because this shit is super cool.
| 4 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:19:44pm |
Hey, SB?
Gunblade.
:P
Image: ffxiii32fb.jpg
| 5 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:23:21pm |
re: #4 Varek Raith
BAH! It should either shoot or stab. Hybrids are for emo tw@s!
/
| 6 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:24:08pm |
re: #5 Slumbering Behemoth
BAH! It should either shoot or stab. Hybrids are for emo tw@s!
/
Or hot chicks.
| 7 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:28:21pm |
re: #6 Varek Raith
One way or another, I am going to have to introduce you to human pr0n. For your own good, of course.
/
| 8 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:29:09pm |
re: #7 Slumbering Behemoth
One way or another, I am going to have to introduce you to human pr0n. For your own good, of course.
/
Bah!
Already got tons of it!
.
.
Wait...
Dammit!
| 9 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:42:01pm |
Damn. Restaurant work is fucking hard!
/but I knew that already
| 10 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:51:40pm |
| 11 |
TedStriker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:29:02am |
Just been watching the World at War episode dealing with the Russians and hearing Laurence Olivier recite this poem made me mist up a bit:
Wait For MeWait for me, and I’ll return
Only wait very hard
Wait when you are filled with sorrow
Wait in the sweltering heat
Wait when the others have stopped waiting,
Forgetting their yesterdays.
Wait even when from afar no letters come to you
Wait even when others are tired of waiting…
And when friends sit around the fire,
Drinking to my memory,
Wait, and do not hurry to drink to my memory too.
Wait. For I’ll return, defying every death.
And let those who do not wait say that I was lucky.
They will never understand that in the midst of death,
You with you waiting saved me.
Only you and I know how I survived.
It’s because you waited, as no one else did.- Konstantin Simonov
Cheers and well-wishes to our soldiers, active-duty and vets...
| 12 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:30:33am |
re: #11 talon_262
That series, though not quite as objective about the history as it could have been, is probably one of the high marks in television history.
| 13 |
TedStriker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:39:00am |
re: #12 freetoken
That series, though not quite as objective about the history as it could have been, is probably one of the high marks in television history.
True, but given that the series was made only about 25 years after the war (and almost 40 years ago), they did a damn good job chronicling the different players and phases of the war. Definitely a classic...and having Olivier narrate it was a master stroke.
I'll give this to the Brits...documentaries are a strong suit for them.
| 14 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:45:05am |
re: #13 talon_262
The reason I think it was a success is that the producers/corporation approached it as a serious piece an not firstly as "entertainment", which is what nearly all American television, including the "news", tries to be.
It has an element of theater - Olivier's readings, for instance. But they are there to serve a bigger purpose.
| 15 |
TedStriker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:47:09am |
Here's the other Russian poem Olivier recited in the World at War episode:
Do Not Call Me, FatherAnonymous, Soviet Union, 1942
(Son to father…)
Do not call me, father. Do not seek me.
Do not call me. Do not wish me back.
We’re on a route uncharted, fire and blood erase our track.
On we fly on wings of thunder, never more to sheath our swords.
All of us in battle fallen – not to be brought back by words.Will there be a rendezvous? I know not. I only know we still must fight.
We are sand grains in infinity, never to meet, nevermore to see light.(Father to son…)
Farewell then my son. Farewell then my conscience.
Farewell my youth, my solace, my one-and-only.Let this farewell be the end of a story
Of solitude past which now is more lonely.
In which you remained barred forever from light,
From air, with your death pains untold.
Untold and unsoothed, never to be resurrected.
Forever and ever an 18 year old.Farewell then.
No trains ever come from those regions,
Unscheduled and scheduled.
No aeroplanes fly there.Farewell then my son,
For no miracles happen, as in this world
Dreams do not come true.Farewell.
I will dream of you still as a baby,
Treading the earth with little strong toes,
The earth where already so many lie buried.This song to my son, then, is come to its close.
| 16 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:47:50am |
Ha! A blast from the not so distant past, with that 1980's sound, yet coming straight at you from the 1990's...
New Age Agenda to Exterminate Christians
/presented for comedic purposes only
| 17 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:51:03am |
re: #16 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh yeah, I remember the "new age" threat to our children...
| 18 |
Summer Seale Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:04:33am |
I took pictures of that clock at the end of August! I was going to put them online soon. =) (I take tons of pictures and sometimes it takes a few months to sort through all of them)
Back from England, btw. I missed living there. I really love England so much.
| 19 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:12:14am |
Come get your fresh hot fiscal responsibility!
Gov. Rick Perry approved $4.5 million for donor's start-up firm without regional board's OK
The money was awarded in August to Convergen Lifesciences Inc., founded by Perry contributor David G. Nance. Convergen was allowed to bypass a key part of the Texas Emerging Technology Fund's extensive process for vetting applications, and to proceed for approval to a statewide advisory board appointed by Perry.
A spokeswoman for Perry said Tuesday that the money was properly awarded to Convergen because the law establishing the tech fund allows applicants to appeal decisions by regional reviewers.
However, the law makes no mention of such appeals.
The chairman of the regional board in Houston, one of the state's largest, told The News he had never heard of an appeals process. Walter Ulrich, also a former member of the tech fund's statewide advisory committee, said approval by regional boards is mandatory.
| 21 |
Kruk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:06:51am |
From the "You;ve got to be kidding" files:
Should public workers be allowed to vote in state and federal elections?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]
| 22 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:22:53am |
re: #21 Kruk
Wowza...as an election judge in Illinois, I learned this week that convicted felons can register and vote here if they are no longer incarcerated.
| 23 |
researchok Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:42:10am |
re: #22 Taqyia2Me
Wowza...as an election judge in Illinois, I learned this week that convicted felons can register and vote here if they are no longer incarcerated.
In federal elections?
| 24 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:43:45am |
re: #22 Taqyia2Me
I'm in favor of felons who have served their time being able to vote.
I don't think committing a crime-- or, more accurately, being convicted of a crime-- should disenfranchise you for life.
| 25 |
researchok Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:45:23am |
re: #24 Obdicut
I'm in favor of felons who have served their time being able to vote.
I don't think committing a crime-- or, more accurately, being convicted of a crime-- should disenfranchise you for life.
How about those with more than one felony conviction?
| 26 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:49:52am |
re: #23 researchok
In federal elections?
Yes, they spoke in terms of the Nov 2 election coming up. I am trying to reach my state reps to make sure the election office is accurate on this question.
| 27 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:53:00am |
re: #25 researchok
How about those with more than one felony conviction?
Not then, either.
The likelihood of large numbers of repeat felon voting in significant numbers is just not realistic.
And the number of people we imprison, as a percentage of our population, is shameful.
Our prison system is broken as fuck. We need to fix it.
| 28 |
researchok Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:57:16am |
re: #27 Obdicut
Not then, either.
The likelihood of large numbers of repeat felon voting in significant numbers is just not realistic.
And the number of people we imprison, as a percentage of our population, is shameful.
Our prison system is broken as fuck. We need to fix it.
I think allowing a one time felon the opportunity to regain his/her right to vote can go a long way in reintegration efforts.
As for the prison system, you are way too kind.
Fucked up is the kindest critique- though in fairness, you can't address the prisons without addressing the criminal court system.
| 29 |
researchok Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:59:05am |
re: #26 Taqyia2Me
Yes, they spoke in terms of the Nov 2 election coming up. I am trying to reach my state reps to make sure the election office is accurate on this question.
I do believe some states have a process to let convicted felons regain their voting rights, though from what I recall, there are beaucoup hoops to jump through.
| 30 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:02:28am |
re: #28 researchok
Yep. Insert my standard diatribe about how prosecutors usually just seeing it as a step into politics fucks up the system massively here.
I think that we need to take responsibility for the fact that our prisons are basically criminal training grounds. If you tried to design an environment that would criminalize people, make it more likely for them to commit crimes on release, we could hardly do a better job. In terms of keeping crime low, our prisons do a terrible job.
| 31 |
researchok Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:07:20am |
re: #30 Obdicut
I would add one thing: We are schizophrenic as to what we expect from incarceration- is the goal to rehabilitate or punish?
Clearly, there are cases where punishment ought to be the primary focus, but overall it seems to me that rehabilitation efforts are the best and most desirable long term choices for the vast majority of inmates (certainly forst and even second timers).
We fail when we try and integrate the two tracks in one prison system.
| 33 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:09:30am |
re: #31 researchok
It turns into a really strange Puritan morals test, like seeing if people are a witch.
Send them to prison to get brutalized, abused, possibly raped, forced to join in with one gang or another. If they take the high road and refuse to become criminals, they win. Also, they probably suffered more than the people who chose to be as criminal as possible in prison.
It's totally backwards.
| 34 |
Taqyia2Me Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:09:56am |
re: #29 researchok
Well, they said a felon can vote if they are no longer incarcerated and have registered to vote.
I do not disagree with the sentiments expressed by Obdicut and you.
I'm guessing that a felon's right to vote is a newish law in Illinois.
| 35 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:13:14am |
re: #21 Kruk
The right-wing in this country looks to be into some sort of ideological spiral (downward). Where it will end I don't know. But given we've seen the rise of popularity of those who want to repeal the CRA, the 14th amendment, and so forth ... the idea of disenfranchising public employees seems not surprising.
| 36 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:15:28am |
re: #35 freetoken
The right-wing in this country looks to be into some sort of ideological spiral (downward). Where it will end I don't know. But given we've seen the rise of popularity of those who want to repeal the CRA, the 14th amendment, and so forth ... the idea of disenfranchising public employees seems not surprising.
SERFDOM FTW!!!!!!!!!!!
| 37 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:18:13am |
re: #36 wozzablog
SERFDOM FTW!!!
Well, if you look at the comments to that article "serfdom" does seem to be where it is heading.
| 38 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:35:28am |
side note - i am really peeved i missed the Coons/O'Donnell debate last night. read the comments and it seems like a totally one sided affair.
would've been fun - but then shooting fish in a barrel is a hobby of mine.
| 39 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:49:31am |
re: #38 wozzablog
side note - i am really peeved i missed the Coons/O'Donnell debate last night. read the comments and it seems like a totally one sided affair.
would've been fun - but then shooting fish in a barrel is a hobby of mine.
just found it on cspan......
[Link: cspan.org...]
| 40 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:50:54am |
The anti-vaxxers are sure to sink their teeth into this one:
Supreme Court appears split by infant vaccination case
They even showed up in the comments. While this case doesn't have a great deal of attention now, I'm sure the anti-vaxxers will whip up more attention over this, especially when the decision comes in.
| 41 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:18:08am |
re: #37 freetoken
Well, if you look at the comments to that article "serfdom" does seem to be where it is heading.
Time for a Serfin' Safari:
[Link: www.google.com...]
I love the sound of musical puns in the morning.
| 42 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:26:33am |
| 43 |
Fart Knocker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:29:47am |
Good Morning Lizards!
A quote to start the day.
“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin
| 44 |
Ericus58 Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:33:58am |
| 46 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:42:37am |
i'm 11 minutes into the coons/o'donnell debate and its already worse than i thought............ i will now be quiet about it.
(just my 2 cents as i know theres a whole thread downstairs on it)
| 47 |
EdDantes Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:43:10am |
re: #41 Decatur Deb
"Brian's the little fat one."
- Gene Nelson, KYA radio 1260 (San Francisco), 1963
| 48 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:43:51am |
re: #46 wozzablog
i'm 11 minutes into the coons/o'donnell debate and its already worse than i thought... i will now be quiet about it.
(just my 2 cents as i know theres a whole thread downstairs on it)
I still just want to do her.
| 49 |
Fart Knocker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:46:09am |
re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar
I still just want to do her.
Here's some fodder for you:
Racy Pic of Christine O'Donnell as a Storm Trooper Discovered
| 50 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:47:56am |
re: #49 rwdflynavy
Here's some fodder for you:
Racy Pic of Christine O'Donnell as a Storm Trooper Discovered
Kinda thinking that beats the golden bikini. :)
| 51 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:48:22am |
re: #11 talon_262
Just been watching the World at War episode dealing with the Russians and hearing Laurence Olivier recite this poem made me mist up a bit:
Cheers and well-wishes to our soldiers, active-duty and vets...
Was the other day a particular anniversary? Military Channel was running back to back to back shows that centered on Stalingrad, including the appropriate World At War episode.
| 52 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:51:38am |
| 54 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:57:20am |
re: #51 oaktree
Was the other day a particular anniversary? Military Channel was running back to back to back shows that centered on Stalingrad, including the appropriate World At War episode.
sometimes they just do theme days. October seemed to be a fairly heavy month within the battle for stalingrad - but thats pretty much in relative terms.
| 55 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:00:44am |
re: #14 freetoken
The reason I think it was a success is that the producers/corporation approached it as a serious piece an not firstly as "entertainment", which is what nearly all American television, including the "news", tries to be.
It has an element of theater - Olivier's readings, for instance. But they are there to serve a bigger purpose.
A great advantage of that series compared to more modern programs is that they had a lot more major participants available to interview. I also like how there were episodes essentially given to describing the home front and background of the major powers; Ep 1 covered pre-war Germany and Hitler coming to power, other episodes on Japan, etc.
An issue now is that I've read enough military history that a lot of the programs are simply boring or annoying to me. A lot of programs seem to be aimed for entertainment and short attention spans - over the top about very minor things, rarely discussing things in any depth, and use of computer graphics and such when not needed or appropriate. To the point that when a program comes on about a subject or time period that I'm not familiar with I take what they present with a huge grain of salt.
Oh, and all the "Top 10 List" programs strike me as a waste of time. Actually unamusing when they proclaim some list and a piece of on-the-horizon not deployed yet system is named the best of all time. What?
| 56 |
EdDantes Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:00:54am |
re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar
RFK Jr. supports Charlie Crist. Another reason I won't vote for him.
I love the look on Crist's face. It's rather quizzical.
| 57 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:04:26am |
re: #15 talon_262
Many dings. Cut and pasted out.re: #55 oaktree
The final show of the series, ending with a series of comments from combat vets, was the most telling. A dark part of me wants to agree with the grunt who said something like: "I consider the whole enterprise a waste of time because 30 million of the bastards are still alive."
| 58 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:04:27am |
re: #56 EdDantes
I love the look on Crist's face. It's rather quizzical.
Crist hasn't been a horrible gubner, but he is a political whore.
| 59 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:05:07am |
re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar
Crist hasn't been a horrible gubner, but he is a political whore.
Redundant commenter is redundant.
| 60 |
_remembertonyc Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:07:45am |
Charles ... I'd like to suggest a Lizard poll for a thread. 2-3 questions to take the temperature of Lizard Nation. One suggestion:
Do you feel your children's lives will be ...
1. better than mine
2. About the same
3. Worse than mine
I'll bet the optimism level is higher here than in most other places on the web.
| 62 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:12:34am |
re: #57 Decatur Deb
Many dings. Cut and pasted out.re: #55 oaktree
The final show of the series, ending with a series of comments from combat vets, was the most telling. A dark part of me wants to agree with the grunt who said something like: "I consider the whole enterprise a waste of time because 30 million of the bastards are still alive."
That's the sort of comment that I can understand, but cannot agree with.
I have an immense amount of respect for combat vets. What they go through is life-changing, and essentially destroys who they once were.
Another program that make very good use of the available combat vets was _Band of Brothers_. They had the short bits at the beginning of episodes, and IIRC one of the last episodes (or it was a follow-up) included some of them visiting the town of Foy in the Ardennes again. Given that the one man lost a leg there that visit must have been emotional to the extreme.
| 63 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:13:54am |
re: #60 _remembertonyc
Ask your question again when we have more than 16 log-ins. Include grandchildren and great-grandchildren. The lives of my children are half over.
| 64 |
EdDantes Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:14:28am |
re: #59 Decatur Deb
That is from the Department of Redundancy Department.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:17:00am |
re: #62 oaktree
That's the sort of comment that I can understand, but cannot agree with.
I have an immense amount of respect for combat vets. What they go through is life-changing, and essentially destroys who they once were.
Another program that make very good use of the available combat vets was _Band of Brothers_. They had the short bits at the beginning of episodes, and IIRC one of the last episodes (or it was a follow-up) included some of them visiting the town of Foy in the Ardennes again. Given that the one man lost a leg there that visit must have been emotional to the extreme.
I don't agree with it on any rational level. WWII is personal for me. The Vietnam series "China Beach" (alternately horrible and spectacular) had a similar recap. Fictional scenes were interspersed with interviews of the nurses who lived them.
| 66 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:19:45am |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
I thought Band of Brothers was based on a real company.
| 67 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:20:57am |
re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes, I think. He chose one that had the needed scope in it's service.
| 68 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:23:32am |
Has Ken Burns ever done a documentary on WW2?
| 69 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:26:54am |
re: #68 Cannadian Club Akbar
Has Ken Burns ever done a documentary on WW2?
Yes. I missed it.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 70 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:27:08am |
Good morning!
Did any of the NYC lizards see the UFO yesterday?
Mystery shiny objects floating over Manhattan spark UFO frenzy
A mysterious shiny object floating high over Manhattan's West Side set off a flurry of reports and wild speculation Wednesday that a UFO was flying over the city.
Police and the FAA said they began getting flooded with calls starting at 1:30 p.m. from people reporting a silvery object hovering high over Chelsea.
Law enforcement sources said they believed the object was likely some sort of balloon, but as of late Wednesday they had not confirmed exactly what it is.
A Daily News reporter could see a tiny, silver dot floating approximately 5,000 feet above 23th St. and Eighth Ave., where dozens of people gathered late in the afternoon to catch a glimpse.
"It's been hovering there for a while. I'm just kind of baffled," said Joseph Torres, 49, of Dyker Heights, Brooklyn, who spotted the object after leaving a movie. "How can it be ordinary? There is something going on."
| 72 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:30:22am |
re: #70 NJDhockeyfan
George Norrie is all over it!!!
| 73 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:32:35am |
re: #71 Decatur Deb
Was there a little kid in it?
Don't know but here is a video taken from Central Park...
| 74 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:33:48am |
re: #70 NJDhockeyfan
Nope... completely missed it. But caught the news stations trying to interview folks who did - quite funny. One of the street reporters said that they were having a hard time trying to report on something that no one understood and no one could actually verify. I don't quite know what to think. Mylar balloons sounds plausible.
Besides, there's no reason intelligent life out there would come here; there's no intelligent life down here /
| 75 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:35:23am |
re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar
RFK Jr. supports Charlie Crist. Another reason I won't vote for him.
That's one of those he should have tried to keep quiet.
| 76 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:36:59am |
| 77 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:38:58am |
I spent most of the day offline, and what little time I spent online I was helping a friend with some grief issues, so I missed this:
21 Days to Go and Democrats Facing a 60 - 70 Seat Loss
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
I've got the over 50 in the pool, hitting 70 would be incredible.
| 79 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:43:35am |
re: #77 RogueOne
I spent most of the day offline, and what little time I spent online I was helping a friend with some grief issues, so I missed this:
21 Days to Go and Democrats Facing a 60 - 70 Seat Loss
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]I've got the over 50 in the pool, hitting 70 would be incredible.
Now that's some Change I can believe in!
| 80 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:44:01am |
re: #77 RogueOne
I don't see why the Dems should lose seats. They took over the House in '06. The most ethical congress ever. Drain the swamp. Blah blah. How's that working out for ya?
| 81 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:45:48am |
re: #74 lawhawk
Nope... completely missed it. But caught the news stations trying to interview folks who did - quite funny. One of the street reporters said that they were having a hard time trying to report on something that no one understood and no one could actually verify. I don't quite know what to think. Mylar balloons sounds plausible.
Besides, there's no reason intelligent life out there would come here; there's no intelligent life down here /
There is an oft-shown clip of a mass daylight overflight of a Mexico City celebration. The UFO buffs cite it as one of the best recent proofs. The shining objects are described as large, at great altitude. Late in the clip a UH-1 flies behind the formation, and one of the bogies is clearly outlined in front of the tail boom.
| 82 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:48:03am |
re: #79 NJDhockeyfan
Now that's some Change I can believe in!
The GOP has let expectations slip too high. If their gains are as low as 40, quite in the likely range, they needlessly come out repudiated.
| 83 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:48:03am |
Threads over 300 posts lock up my work laptop, no idea why but I'm fairly certain it has something to do with Flash. I mention that because I can't post in the abortion thread a few threads down on the mainpage.
That guy is almost close enough to me to be considered a neighbor. His town is slightly more uppity than mine, a lot whiter than mine, and much more Republican than mine. I bet he's going nuts this season living in Carmel. I have $20 that says he's one of maybe 20 dems in the entire district. Don't know why but for some reason that strikes me funny.
| 84 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:49:57am |
re: #82 Decatur Deb
The GOP has let expectations slip too high. If their gains are as low as 40, quite in the likely range, they needlessly come out repudiated.
I think you're right, it's getting to that point. If they don't take over the house it will be labelled a disaster and "proof" that the dems are on the right track they just need to spend a little more.
| 85 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:50:42am |
re: #81 Decatur Deb
There is an oft-shown clip of a mass daylight overflight of a Mexico City celebration. The UFO buffs cite it as one of the best recent proofs. The shining objects are described as large, at great altitude. Late in the clip a UH-1 flies behind the formation, and one of the bogies is clearly outlined in front of the tail boom.
I think that was Louis Farrakhan's Mother-Wheel.
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:53:42am |
re: #84 RogueOne
I think you're right, it's getting to that point. If they don't take over the house it will be labelled a disaster and "proof" that the dems are on the right track they just need to spend a little more.
I watch Nate Silver's 538, Intrade, and the Daily Beast's "Oracle" page. that gives a pretty likely set of expectations. RCP used to, but they are stuck with some hinky "Likely Voter" stuff in their feeder poll mix.
| 87 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:55:42am |
re: #85 NJDhockeyfan
I think that was Louis Farrakhan's Mother-Wheel.
[Video]
OH NOES!! THE ALIENS ARE COMING TO GET US!!!
/heh
| 88 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:56:39am |
re: #87 Cannadian Club Akbar
OH NOES!! THE ALIENS ARE COMING TO GET US!!!
/heh
I can't find my purple sneakers.
| 89 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:57:10am |
re: #77 RogueOne
Nate Smith, who's now working over at the NYT blog, puts GOP pickup in the House approaching 50 seats. RCP is showing Dems at 184 safe seats, the GOP at 211, and 40 tossups, which would approach the 50 seat pickup.
However, he's finding the chances of a GOP takeover in the Senate to be tougher as some of the races have appeared to break for the Democrats.
| 90 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:57:40am |
re: #87 Cannadian Club Akbar
OH NOES!! THE ALIENS ARE COMING TO GET US!!!
/heh
And guess who is flying those UFOs?
| 91 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:57:50am |
| 92 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:58:01am |
re: #86 Decatur Deb
I checked Nate yesterday. There doesn't seem to be a lot of hope out there for the dems to hold on to the house. The only problem I have with this (I want the dems punished, remember?) election is I'm starting to get very concerned with my Indiana state rep. His opponent has signs everywhere and tv commercials on what seems to be a constant loop. Even my wife has turned into a traitor. I've never put a political sign up in my yard but we're having a minor spat about having dueling campaign signs in the front yard.
| 93 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:58:41am |
re: #89 lawhawk
I don't think they'll take the senate....until 2012 that is./
| 95 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:00:25am |
re: #89 lawhawk
However, he's finding the chances of a GOP takeover in the Senate to be tougher as some of the races have appeared to break for the Democrats.
made it thirty minutes into the delaware debate - and that does not suprise me in the least. some car wreck candidates on the GOP side. If the house candidates had as much exposure as O'Donnell and Angle i think a couple of the house races wouldnt be as far apart as they are.
| 96 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:01:15am |
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:01:17am |
re: #90 NJDhockeyfan
And guess who is flying those UFOs?
I'm frankly tired of the Jews running the world. Can we Polish have a shot?
///
| 98 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:03:07am |
| 99 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:03:09am |
Iran creates panel to prove US behind the 9/11 attacks.
There's no word on whether Alex Jones has accepted a position.
Well, they are capitalizing on the alternative reality movement that remains pervasive in the Middle East and beyond, where people think that the 9/11 attacks were done by the US to expand its influence overseas in any number of areas.
| 100 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:04:32am |
re: #90 NJDhockeyfan
And guess who is flying those UFOs?
[Link: www.myfoxtampabay.com...]
This fits in nice. Fucking Dbag.
| 101 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:13:04am |
I think this might be playing a part in my friends grief issues:
POLL: Voters more likely to see Dems as dominated by extremists
[Link: thehill.com...]
This result comes from The Hill 2010 Midterm Election Poll, which found that 44 percent of likely voters say the Democratic Party is more dominated by its extreme elements; whereas 37 percent say it’s the Republican Party that is more dominated by extremists.
.....
More than one in every five Democrats (22 percent) in The Hill’s survey said their party was more dominated than the GOP by extreme views. The equivalent figure among Republicans is 11 percent.Results for independent voters reflected the larger sample. Forty-three percent of likely independent voters said the Democratic party is more dominated by its extreme elements compared to 37 percent who though the GOP had fallen under the sway of extreme views.
| 102 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:14:23am |
re: #67 Decatur Deb
Yes, I think. He chose one that had the needed scope in it's service.
I think _Band of Brothers_ came about as Ambrose (or his researchers) focused on something that came to their attention from a larger project. In that case I believe that manuscripts or books from the paratroopers were used as source material for _Citizen Soldiers_ and _D-Day_. Certain facets must have caught Ambrose's attention and interest since he put out a book on the British at Pegasus Bridge (_Pegasus Bridge_) and then essentially wrote _Band of Brothers_ to trace a US paratrooper company from training - to D-Day - to the end of the war.
As TV the series was very well done. The characters were very human; confused, angry, tired, etc. War contains a massive amount of misery, but it seems you need adversity like that to allow the heroism and some of the best in humanity to shine through.
| 103 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:15:13am |
Apparently Wife-Beating Isn’t Big News in Ohio
As far as I can tell, not one news entity in Ohio has picked up the story about revelations of spousal abuse by Rep. Charlie Wilson in his divorce papers.
Not a one.
In fact, the only news groups that have even mentioned the story are Townhall.com, our old friend David Freddoso in the Washington Examiner, and here and a few other blogs. Compare this to the Mark Foley scandal, which broke in late September 2006 and dominated the final month of the campaign.
We don’t have a news business. We have a narrative reinforcement business, and they do a strikingly effective job of collectively averting their eyes from information that hurts their preferred cause. For Pete’s sake, this is wife-beating we’re talking about, and it is admitted in a public record. How is this not news? How is this not something that the voters in Ohio’s 6th Congressional District ought to know about before they cast their vote?
Here is the filed complaint. That's very fucked up shit. How could anyone attack their wife like that? What a SCUMBAG.
| 104 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:16:25am |
re: #70 NJDhockeyfan
Good morning!
Did any of the NYC lizards see the UFO yesterday?
Mystery shiny objects floating over Manhattan spark UFO frenzy
Manifestation of Sharia Law?
| 105 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:16:44am |
re: #101 RogueOne
I think this might be playing a part in my friends grief issues:
POLL: Voters more likely to see Dems as dominated by extremists
[Link: thehill.com...]
That report can be seen as an indication that Dems are a lot more capable of introspection about their party. (Many of today's Independents were Repubs until the post-crazy shame set in.)
| 106 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:17:28am |
re: #103 NJDhockeyfan
I tend to take anything involved in a divorce case with a pound of salt. Was he ever arrested for assault or is there just an accusation?
| 107 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:17:40am |
| 108 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:18:50am |
re: #101 RogueOne
I think this might be playing a part in my friends grief issues:
POLL: Voters more likely to see Dems as dominated by extremists
[Link: thehill.com...]
What the flying f***?
This makes no sense.
The only logic I can find is the "Dunning Kruger" effect writ large.
"I'm not an extremist, and the people in control of the Republican party agree with me so obviously they can't be extremists either!"
Of course from what Charles has posted and looking at many of the Senate Race, ironically one might surmise that few but the extremists are left in today's GOP....
| 109 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:19:39am |
re: #105 Decatur Deb
That report can be seen as an indication that Dems are a lot more capable of introspection about their party. (Many of today's Independents were Repubs until the post-crazy shame set in.)
HA! That's a very good spin! You might be wasting your talent giving it away for free.//
I'm of the belief that regardless of the race there will be a 30/30/40 split. 30 for each party and 40% of the electorate that swing back and forth and consider themselves "independent". I swing both ways.
| 110 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:20:28am |
| 111 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:21:45am |
| 112 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:22:01am |
| 113 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:23:00am |
re: #105 Decatur Deb
You could also take it as further evidence that in today's Republican party, the extreme is the mainstream.
I mean, seriously, who in the GOP is actually calling out the crazies?
| 114 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:23:40am |
re: #109 RogueOne
HA! That's a very good spin! You might be wasting your talent giving it away for free.//
I'm of the belief that regardless of the race there will be a 30/30/40 split. 30 for each party and 40% of the electorate that swing back and forth and consider themselves "independent". I swing both ways.
Not joking--we Dems have grown up knowing that our party is full of lying, stealing, whoring scumbags. The last really good riot we had was against our own party's convention in 1968. That's our baseline. We're still convinced that the virtuous Repubs will do more damage to the nation and the world in the long run.
| 115 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:23:41am |
re: #110 RogueOne
re: #107 wozzablog
I would expect you extremists not to recognize what's going on out here./
Dude seriously, not even close to funny.
Making it illegal for women to get abortions if they are raped, that's an extreme position.
An extreme position which is depressingly common in the today's GOP electorate as well as Charles proved...
| 116 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:24:16am |
re: #107 wozzablog
oh ffs.
44% of people are severely de-fucking-luded.
Well, the figures would make sense if the poll reflected that a similar number of respondents identified as GOPers. In other words - each party thought that the opposite number was extreme.
In a similar vein, in NY, Andy Cuomo proposed a cap on property taxes and the comments in the NY Post slammed him as a puppet for Shelly Silver and the unions, etc. Let's just ignore that Chris Christie, the current NJ governor, proposed essentially the same thing - and got elected on a property tax reduction platform (and got a new and improved property tax cap enacted in NJ). The only difference between the two is the party affiliation. Christie is a GOPer, and Cuomo is a Democrat.
Oh, and for the record, Paladino's proposed property tax relief consists of cutting Medicaid by $20 billion in NY, which is simply impossible because there isn't $20 billion to cut - and doing so would irreperably harm the state's health care infrastructure (not to mention getting hospitals and the unions to join together to thwart any such moves).
| 117 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:24:58am |
re: #116 lawhawk
Oh, and there isn't any crosstabs to identify how the poll was conducted or anything on which to figure out just how the results were tabulated as far as I can tell.
| 118 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:25:37am |
re: #112 RogueOne
re: #108 jamesfirecat
If I had to guess I would bet that each of you think of obama as a center-left president. Right? IMO, Clinton was center-left, Bush was center-right, and Obama is left-left.
What has Obama done that is so "left-left" exactly?
Was it the increasing our troop strength in Afghanistan?
Was it the billions of dollars in tax cuts?
Was it extending 95% of the tax cut George Bush created beyond when he wanted them to wear out?
Was it pushing for cap and trade which was originally a Republican idea?
Was it the attempts at a free market solution to public healthcare similar to the one Republicans offered as a Counter Proposal to Clinton's plan back in the 90's?
| 119 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:26:09am |
re: #115 jamesfirecat
Dude seriously, not even close to funny.
Making it illegal for women to get abortions if they are raped, that's an extreme position.
An extreme position which is depressingly common in the today's GOP electorate as well as Charles proved...
I could say the same thing about the belief amongst a lot of the left that abortion should have zero restrictions. Those of us in the middle think of you both as "crazy". There are decent arguments to be made on both sides but most of the country is for some compromises while the left and the right insist on abortion purity.
| 120 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:26:31am |
re: #112 RogueOne
On the world spectrum Obama is centre-left.
On my spectrum Obama seems to be about where the UK tories/liberals are. Which is centre right.
most Democrats i know don't believe Obama to be anywhere near like far left enough.
To say he is far to the left of centre is - certainly on delivery - is just .....just.....i don't even know where to begin.
| 121 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:28:12am |
re: #113 iossarian
You could also take it as further evidence that in today's Republican party, the extreme is the mainstream.
I mean, seriously, who in the GOP is actually calling out the crazies?
David Frum when he isn't nursing the metaphorical shiners his party keeps giving him, because they love him so much that they have to hit him every now and again....
(Sorry if it is in poor taste to compare David Frum and other Sane Republican's attempts to call out the crazies which only get them attacked and further marginalized by the crazies who are in control, and yet still they seem determined to go down with the ship to someone who is in an abusive relationship, it just seemed an apt metaphor at the time...)
| 122 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:28:50am |
re: #119 RogueOne
I could say the same thing about the belief amongst a lot of the left that abortion should have zero restrictions. Those of us in the middle think of you both as "crazy". There are decent arguments to be made on both sides but most of the country is for some compromises while the left and the right insist on abortion purity.
Who on the left is actually for abortion with zero restrictions?
Name some people running for elected office who hold that position!
| 123 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:29:21am |
re: #116 lawhawk
I like to think that political affiliation should not excuse someone from not having even a passing handle on political reality.
| 124 |
pharmmajor Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:30:21am |
Star Trek technobabble, as explained by Voltaire:
| 125 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:30:29am |
re: #118 jamesfirecat
1. Tax credits are not tax cuts.
2. Pushing through HCR
3. Bailing out the unions at the expense of everyone else
4. The stimulus package was wasted on left-wing wish list items.
Obama is about as close to the center as Sarah Palin. He ignored the lessons Clinton learned and only now realizes his mistakes.
| 126 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:31:56am |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
Who on the left is actually for abortion with zero restrictions?
Name some people running for elected office who hold that position!
Almost all of them? We just recently had this discussion.
| 127 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:32:41am |
re: #125 RogueOne
1. Tax credits are not tax cuts.
2. Pushing through HCR
3. Bailing out the unions at the expense of everyone else
4. The stimulus package was wasted on left-wing wish list items.Obama is about as close to the center as Sarah Palin. He ignored the lessons Clinton learned and only now realizes his mistakes.
1:How are tax credits different from tax cuts exactly? Isn't the end result the same either way, with people having more money in their pockets because they paid less on taxes?
2: How exactly did Obama "Push through" HCR when we spent the better part of a year debating it?
3: Let me see what exactly you consider "bailing out the unions" and I'll give you my comments on it.
4: Give me some examples on said "wish list items" and once again we'll debate them on a point by point basis.
| 128 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:32:55am |
re: #126 RogueOne
Almost all of them? We just recently had this discussion.
Really?
Have links?
Have clips?
| 129 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:33:05am |
re: #106 RogueOne
I tend to take anything involved in a divorce case with a pound of salt. Was he ever arrested for assault or is there just an accusation?
He admitted to attacking & choking her and it's included in that divorce complaint. This story is past accusations.
From the filed complaint on page 4:
Charles admits to grabbing Plaintiff by the arms and shaking her (Defendant's Deposition, pp. 194, 207, 208-209). He admits grabbing her around the neck with one hand (Defendant's Deposition, pp. 209-210). He admits bruising plaintiffs’ arms and neck(Defendant's Deposition, pp. 194).
| 130 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:33:06am |
re: #123 wozzablog
I like to think that political affiliation should not excuse someone from not having even a passing handle on political reality.
but people (voters) look at it as a team sport. Personally, I would love to get rid of parties entirely.
| 131 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:36:39am |
re: #130 RogueOne
but people (voters) look at it as a team sport. Personally, I would love to get rid of parties entirely.
So would I, but where would the monied interests send the checks?
| 132 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:36:58am |
re: #127 jamesfirecat
Tax cut v. tax credit:
Tax cuts are directly amending the tax rate. A tax credit is just that - a credit against the tax normally due.
The end result for the taxpayer may look the same, but the calculations in getting to that point are different.
Both are manifestations of tax policy and politics to affect taxpayer behaviors - both to secure revenues and to encourage certain policy outcomes (like buying homes - mortgage interest/tax deductions; children - EITC; energy savings- energy star credits; etc.)
| 133 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:37:10am |
re: #119 RogueOne
Unrestricted abortion????????????
Who holds that position?.
Who seriously - believes in "unrestricted abortion on demand" in the last trimester?.........
The "no abortion, ever" (which is the far extreme) and actual GOP policy - as opposed to the democrat "safe, legal and rare".
Get a grip or buy a clue.
| 134 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:37:54am |
re: #123 wozzablog
I'd agree - but partisanship trumps reality more often than we should allow.
| 135 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:38:03am |
re: #132 lawhawk
Tax cut v. tax credit:
Tax cuts are directly amending the tax rate. A tax credit is just that - a credit against the tax normally due.The end result for the taxpayer may look the same, but the calculations in getting to that point are different.
Both are manifestations of tax policy and politics to affect taxpayer behaviors - both to secure revenues and to encourage certain policy outcomes (like buying homes - mortgage interest/tax deductions; children - EITC; energy savings- energy star credits; etc.)
So just to make sure i understand this... a tax credit is something that only lasts for one year's taxes, while a tax cut will last until it expires/is changed.
Do I have that right?
| 136 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:38:08am |
re: #127 jamesfirecat
Wow. There are no bail outs for unions?
| 137 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:38:32am |
re: #126 RogueOne
Almost all of them? We just recently had this discussion.
Last time I remember talking about abortion, the specific "restriction" we were discussing was whether parents had to be notified. As I recall, there was no sensible answer to the question of how you would reconcile that position with the situation of a 16-year old being raped by her father and becoming pregnant as a result.
| 138 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:38:56am |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
Wow. There are no bail outs for unions?
I'm not saying there aren't any.
I'm just saying that at the moment I have 0 knowledge on the issue.
So if you guys would fill me in that would be great....
| 139 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:39:14am |
re: #125 RogueOne
1. Tax credits are not tax cuts.
2. Pushing through HCR
4. The stimulus package was wasted on left-wing wish list items.
Expanding the Bush tax cut for those under $250,000
HCR had an approval of 69% even going into the late stages and was a campaign promise.
Stimulus - yeah, all the bridges and public buildings that needed rebuilt and all the firemen and policemen who retained their jobs..........
| 140 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:39:40am |
re: #138 jamesfirecat
I'm not saying there aren't any.
I'm just saying that at the moment I have 0 knowledge on the issue.
So if you guys would fill me in that would be great...
[Link: www.foxbusiness.com...]
| 141 |
pharmmajor Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:39:48am |
Don't know if anyone heard about this, but it's the reaction from Rabbi Yehuda Levin following Paladino's apology for his anti-gay comments:
"I was in the middle of eating a kosher pastrami sandwich," Rabbi Levin said. "While I was eating it, they come running and they say, 'Paladino became gay!' I said, 'What?' And then they showed me the statement. I almost choked on the kosher salami."
| 142 |
Fart Knocker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:39:58am |
re: #133 wozzablog
Unrestricted abortion???
Who holds that position?.
Who seriously - believes in "unrestricted abortion on demand" in the last trimester?...
The "no abortion, ever" (which is the far extreme) and actual GOP policy - as opposed to the democrat "safe, legal and rare".
Get a grip or buy a clue.
Of course abortion is safe, legal and not at all rare, but why quible.
| 143 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:40:03am |
re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: www.foxbusiness.com...]
do you have a link that isn't fox related?
| 144 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:40:28am |
re: #127 jamesfirecat
1:How are tax credits different from tax cuts exactly? Isn't the end result the same either way, with people having more money in their pockets because they paid less on taxes?
2: How exactly did Obama "Push through" HCR when we spent the better part of a year debating it?
3: Let me see what exactly you consider "bailing out the unions" and I'll give you my comments on it.
4: Give me some examples on said "wish list items" and once again we'll debate them on a point by point basis.
1. A tax credit only goes to people who do something to qualify, i.e. buy a car. The meme that "most of the stimulus went to tax cuts for 95% of the public!" is not just a misrepresentation but a lie.
2. the auto bailout was a union bailout. The stimulus money given to states was a SEIU bailout. The more recent teachers bailout was union bailout.
3. stimulus money spent on birth control, money spent to stop STD's, money given to hollywood to make more bad movies, a billion spent on digital converter boxes, money spent to help smokers stop, all the money spent on caulk, etc, etc, etc....
| 145 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:41:05am |
re: #143 jamesfirecat
do you have a link that isn't fox related?
Bwahahahaha! Are you really that scared of Fox News?
| 146 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:41:08am |
re: #131 Decatur Deb
So would I, but where would the monied interests send the checks?
See? I'd subscribe to your newsletter.
| 147 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:41:53am |
re: #142 rwdflynavy
Of course abortion is safe, legal and not at all rare, but why quible.
Safe and legal are easy.
Rare would require us to spend money to build more foster homes/orphanages provide government grants to unwed teen mothers and other women who might consider getting abortions not to mention possibly classes to show that they can survive and care for a child rather than needing to give an abortion.
| 148 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:42:02am |
re: #143 jamesfirecat
do you have a link that isn't fox related?
Sorry, let me find something from LSDNBC.
| 149 |
Fart Knocker Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:43:13am |
re: #147 jamesfirecat
Safe and legal are easy.
Rare would require us to spend money to build more foster homes/orphanages provide government grants to unwed teen mothers and other women who might consider getting abortions not to mention possibly classes to show that they can survive and care for a child rather than needing to give an abortion.
It would also require folks to stop viewing abortion as an alternate form of regular birth control instead of a procedure of last resort.
| 150 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:43:17am |
re: #133 wozzablog
Unrestricted abortion???
Who holds that position?.
Who seriously - believes in "unrestricted abortion on demand" in the last trimester?...
The "no abortion, ever" (which is the far extreme) and actual GOP policy - as opposed to the democrat "safe, legal and rare".
Get a grip or buy a clue.
Has the PBA ban gone through? Did I miss that? There's something that 80% of the public agrees with and yet......
It's the dem go-to issue. When all else fails try to paint your opponent as wanting to jail anyone who gets an abortion.
| 151 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:43:23am |
The whole "safe, legal and rare" formulation is a sop to people who don't have the stones to actually think through the logical conclusion of their knee-jerk opposition to abortion (which is rusty coat hangers in back alleys).
Getting an abortion in the first few weeks is obviously not a bad thing. Getting a "cosmetic" abortion in the third trimester would just as obviously be a bad thing.
We argue about where the dividing line should be precisely because there is no "absolute" answer possible. But suggesting that early-term abortion is a bad thing is really a very weak philosophical position to take.
| 152 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:44:16am |
re: #141 pharmmajor
Don't know if anyone heard about this, but it's the reaction from Rabbi Yehuda Levin following Paladino's apology for his anti-gay comments:
He was eating a pastrami sandwich while choking the salami?
Kinky.
| 154 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:44:23am |
re: #144 RogueOne
1. A tax credit only goes to people who do something to qualify, i.e. buy a car. The meme that "most of the stimulus went to tax cuts for 95% of the public!" is not just a misrepresentation but a lie.
2. the auto bailout was a union bailout. The stimulus money given to states was a SEIU bailout. The more recent teachers bailout was union bailout.
3. stimulus money spent on birth control, money spent to stop STD's, money given to hollywood to make more bad movies, a billion spent on digital converter boxes, money spent to help smokers stop, all the money spent on caulk, etc, etc, etc...
That particular meme you just mentioned is something I never heard of and would never say, because last time I checked the stimulus was only 33% tax cuts and 1/3rd is obviously not "most".
What's wrong with spending money to prevent unwanted pregnancies?
What's wrong with spending money to employee people to make movies?
Without digital converter boxes people's TVs would be oversized paper weights once we get around to making the signal switch.
What's wrong with helping people quit a habit that consumes their lives and the fortunes and leads to an early death?
What's wrong with weather proofing houses in heavy storm areas?
| 155 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:44:41am |
re: #142 rwdflynavy
Safe, legal and rare is a goal - which they would like to achieve without regulating a womans body to the same extent the GOP seem to want on an almost fetishistic level.
The democracts want to reduce abortions by using social tools like healthcare, education and extended maternal benefits.
| 156 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:45:14am |
re: #150 RogueOne
Has the PBA ban gone through? Did I miss that? There's something that 80% of the public agrees with and yet...
It's the dem go-to issue. When all else fails try to paint your opponent as wanting to jail anyone who gets an abortion.
Umm... we have people who actually have stood up and said no abortions even if they were rapped.
We're not painting them that way, they're doing it to themselves....
| 157 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:45:36am |
re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar
Sorry, let me find something from LSDNBC.
Funny how some of the lefties on here are flat-out frightened by anything posted from Fox News yet they have no problems with links to extremely anti-Semitic & racist blog HuffPo.
| 158 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:46:01am |
re: #150 RogueOne
how the fuck does the HIGHLY REGULATED PBA provsions for life of the mother count as un-restricted????????????
| 159 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:46:11am |
I have someone coming over to give me money for stuff that isn't mine. USA!!USA!! BBIAB. Heh.
| 160 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:46:17am |
re: #137 iossarian
Last time I remember talking about abortion, the specific "restriction" we were discussing was whether parents had to be notified. As I recall, there was no sensible answer to the question of how you would reconcile that position with the situation of a 16-year old being raped by her father and becoming pregnant as a result.
True. Most people believe there should be parental notification and yet we don't have it.
Maybe someone could point out where dems have suggested any restrictions on abortion rights? You guys are acting like I believe dems love to kill unborn babies, that's not my accusation. My accusation is that the left believes any restrictions are anti-woman and anti-choice.
| 161 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:46:52am |
re: #157 NJDhockeyfan
Funny how some of the lefties on here are flat-out frightened by anything posted from Fox News yet they have no problems with links to extremely anti-Semitic & racist blog HuffPo.
HEAVEN FORBID!!!
| 162 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:47:03am |
re: #160 RogueOne
Maybe someone could point out where dems have suggested any restrictions on abortion rights? You guys are acting like I believe dems love to kill unborn babies, that's not my accusation. My accusation is that the left believes any restrictions are anti-woman and anti-choice.
There are already a ton of restrictions on late-term abortions that the vast majority of left-wing voters support.
| 164 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:47:42am |
re: #157 NJDhockeyfan
Funny how some of the lefties on here are flat-out frightened by anything posted from Fox News yet they have no problems with links to extremely anti-Semitic & racist blog HuffPo.
Excuse me for not wanting to take for granted the word of people who splice in shots of other rallies in order to make their own gatherings look bigger at face value on what would doubtlessly be one of their hot button issues to try and push that the liberals are messing up the economy....
| 165 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:47:54am |
re: #135 jamesfirecat
Not exactly. The tax rate cut lasts as long as the amended rate is scheduled to - the 2001 and 2003 rate changes expire 12/31/2010 - meaning that they revert to their prior rates beginning January 1, 2011.
The rates apply to everyone within those brackets (for purposes of this discussion, I'm excluding the AMT, which hits taxpayers over a certain dollar limit and overlays the tax brackets).
A tax credit will not apply to all taxpayers within all tax brackets, or even within a single tax bracket - the taxpayer has to calculate the credit if he or she is eligible for the credit.
Tax credits may also have expiration dates - the energy star credits actually expired a few years back, and lapsed for a single year before being reimplemented. They too are set to expire after this year unless Congress acts.
| 166 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:47:59am |
re: #160 RogueOne
True. Most people believe there should be parental notification and yet we don't have it.
And the reason we don't have it is because most people haven't bothered to think through the implications of such a restriction in the case of parental rape.
| 167 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:48:43am |
re: #119 RogueOne
You're not in the middle, Rogue. I don't know why you think you are.
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:49:25am |
re: #164 jamesfirecat
Excuse me for not wanting to take for granted the word of people who splice in shots of other rallies in order to make their own gatherings look bigger at face value on what would doubtlessly be one of their hot button issues to try and push that the liberals are messing up the economy...
WTF are you talking about? I posted a link.
| 169 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:49:40am |
re: #165 lawhawk
Not exactly. The tax rate cut lasts as long as the amended rate is scheduled to - the 2001 and 2003 rate changes expire 12/31/2010 - meaning that they revert to their prior rates beginning January 1, 2011.
The rates apply to everyone within those brackets (for purposes of this discussion, I'm excluding the AMT, which hits taxpayers over a certain dollar limit and overlays the tax brackets).
A tax credit will not apply to all taxpayers within all tax brackets, or even within a single tax bracket - the taxpayer has to calculate the credit if he or she is eligible for the credit.
Tax credits may also have expiration dates - the energy star credits actually expired a few years back, and lapsed for a single year before being reimplemented. They too are set to expire after this year unless Congress acts.
So a tax credit is more "focused" for lack of a better word and more clearly intended to try and encourage people to commit a certain action...
Am I starting to get it now?
| 170 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:50:18am |
re: #168 Cannadian Club Akbar
WTF are you talking about? I posted a link.
I know, and I'm not trying to hold it against you, I'm trying to say I'd appreciate additional links from sources other than Fox to confirm the story.
| 171 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:51:50am |
re: #166 iossarian
Or just in general. The sad part is that people who are good parents want parental notification because, gosh, they'd like to know what's going on with their child and would be concerned for their well-being.
They don't think about the parents who are total assholes, who are terrible parents, and having them involved in the decision.
| 172 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:52:48am |
re: #167 Obdicut
You're not in the middle, Rogue. I don't know why you think you are.
If it's a sphere, everyone must be on the middle.
| 173 |
Interesting Times Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:53:23am |
re: #164 jamesfirecat
Excuse me for not wanting to take for granted the word of people who splice in shots of other rallies in order to make their own gatherings look bigger at face value on what would doubtlessly be one of their hot button issues to try and push that the liberals are messing up the economy...
Plus, seeing an organization as full of crap != being "frightened". It just means you don't trust them based on a proven record of lies and distortions (e.g. Hannity's faking rally footage, whining about Park51 supposedly getting money from the same Saudi prince who owns part of your network, "Breitbarting" video clips to make people look like they're saying something completely different from what they actually did, etc)
| 174 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:54:06am |
re: #170 jamesfirecat
I know, and I'm not trying to hold it against you, I'm trying to say I'd appreciate additional links from sources other than Fox to confirm the story.
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
| 175 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:54:08am |
re: #171 Obdicut
Or just in general. The sad part is that people who are good parents want parental notification because, gosh, they'd like to know what's going on with their child and would be concerned for their well-being.
They don't think about the parents who are total assholes, who are terrible parents, and having them involved in the decision.
Of course - you're exactly right (and this reason applies in far more cases than mine).
It's the whole "I'll kill you if I find out you slept with that lowlife" crowd that makes this restriction a really, really bad idea.
| 176 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:54:34am |
Sponsor of National Prayer Breakfast received money from alleged terrorist group
A group of Ohio ministers has asked the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the organization that sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast because it received money six years ago from an alleged Islamic terrorist organization trying to finance illicit lobbying.
ClergyVoice, the activist group that wrote to the IRS commissioner Wednesday, complained that the Fellowship Foundation violated its obligation as a tax-exempt organization not to deal with such entities.
The foundation, an Arlington-based religious enterprise associated with a house at 133 C St. SE where several members of the House and Senate have rented rooms, acknowledged Wednesday that it had received two $25,000 checks, in May and June 2004, from the Missouri-based Islamic American Relief Agency.
The Islamic American Relief Agency was raided and shuttered by federal agents in October 2004, but in the months after its inclusion on the Senate committee list, it mounted a quiet lobbying effort to clear its name. Carver initially said his group had checked up on the charity at the time the money came in and found nothing, but then said later in the day that he had received incorrect information and that no such checking had occurred.
Whoops!
| 177 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:56:20am |
re: #176 negativ
Sponsor of National Prayer Breakfast received money from alleged terrorist group
Whoops!
Why do Christians hate America?
| 178 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:56:24am |
James and Publicity,
I wasn't exaggerating:
They're also running these ads in CA for Boxer.
| 179 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:57:11am |
re: #176 negativ
Sponsor of National Prayer Breakfast received money from alleged terrorist group
Whoops!
Some of the virtuous I referred to in #114.
| 180 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:57:22am |
re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Ah...
I for one see nothing wrong with the government stepping in to make sure people get what is coming to them from the union they paid dues to, provided that said union then in turn opens its books so that impartial people can get to the bottom of why the pension funds dried up in the first place and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Also this "bailout" hasn't happened yet, right? So blaming Obama for it, is just a little on the unfair side if you ask me....
| 181 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:57:27am |
| 182 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:57:57am |
re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
Oh no....ABC News! (Runs around the room screaming)
| 183 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:58:15am |
re: #178 RogueOne
Ha ha. You're equating this with wanting "no restrictions on abortion"?
That is intellectually bankrupt.
Do current restrictions on late-term abortions count, yes or no?
| 184 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:58:17am |
re: #171 Obdicut
Or just in general. The sad part is that people who are good parents want parental notification because, gosh, they'd like to know what's going on with their child and would be concerned for their well-being.
They don't think about the parents who are total assholes, who are terrible parents, and having them involved in the decision.
So all parents should suffer because some are assholes?
| 185 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:58:48am |
re: #167 Obdicut
You're not in the middle, Rogue. I don't know why you think you are.
Maybe because my views are still, and always have been, in the majority?
| 186 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:59:12am |
re: #180 jamesfirecat
Ah...
I for one see nothing wrong with the government stepping in to make sure people get what is coming to them from the union they paid dues to, provided that said union then in turn opens its books so that impartial people can get to the bottom of why the pension funds dried up in the first place and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Also this "bailout" hasn't happened yet, right? So blaming Obama for it, is just a little on the unfair side if you ask me...
Mkay. So the gubment lets AIG execs keep a bonus. Should we bus people to the houses of people who get to keep a pention?
| 187 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:59:22am |
re: #184 RogueOne
So all parents should suffer because some are assholes?
That you view a child's personal decision as inflicting "suffering" on the parents says a lot about your reasons for wanting to restrict abortion.
Hint: it's about the woman, not her dad.
| 188 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:00:10am |
re: #157 NJDhockeyfan
Funny how some of the lefties on here are flat-out frightened by anything posted from Fox News yet they have no problems with links to extremely anti-Semitic & racist blog HuffPo.
What I don't understand is that Huffpo is listed on Twitter as "Jewish" blog, which means that Huffpo anti-Israel crap is routinely tweeted to Jewish members.
But then, I don't think the "Jewishbloggers" list is monitored too carefully since a lot of the stalker blogs are also listed there.
| 189 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:00:45am |
re: #184 RogueOne
So all parents should suffer because some are assholes?
re: #185 RogueOne
Maybe because my views are still, and always have been, in the majority?
Can you see the simple difficulty of addre4ssing this situation with an encompassing law?
(And your majority did a poor showing in the last election.)
| 190 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:01:11am |
re: #183 iossarian
Ha ha. You're equating this with wanting "no restrictions on abortion"?
That is intellectually bankrupt.
Do current restrictions on late-term abortions count, yes or no?
No, they downdinged my statement of "it's their go-to issue" about republicans wanting to jail women who get abortions.
There are no federal restrictions on late term abortions.
| 191 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:02:00am |
re: #178 RogueOne
James and Publicity,
I wasn't exaggerating:
[Video]They're also running these ads in CA for Boxer.
Can you give me a transcript?
Also is re: #178 RogueOne
James and Publicity,
I wasn't exaggerating:
[Video]They're also running these ads in CA for Boxer.
Do you also have access to Paladino's public statements on where he stands on abortion?
| 192 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:02:31am |
re: #187 iossarian
That you view a child's personal decision as inflicting "suffering" on the parents says a lot about your reasons for wanting to restrict abortion.
Hint: it's about the woman, not her dad.
A person under the age of 18 can't have any medical procedure without parental consent, can't get a tattoo or a piercing, but they can get an abortion and that makes sense to you?
| 193 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:03:14am |
re: #184 RogueOne
So all parents should suffer because some are assholes?
All people have take off their shoes in the air port because some people are terrorists.
So yeah...
| 194 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:03:49am |
re: #192 RogueOne
A person under the age of 18 can't have any medical procedure without parental consent, can't get a tattoo or a piercing, but they can get an abortion and that makes sense to you?
Exactly. But, but, what if her dad is the father!! That happens all the time!!
/
| 195 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:04:02am |
re: #189 Decatur Deb
re: #185 RogueOne
Can you see the simple difficulty of addre4ssing this situation with an encompassing law?
(And your majority did a poor showing in the last election.)
but they weren't "my" majority. Life is a lot more fun when you don't really care what party a person belongs to, that way I can continue to vote for specific issues and personalities I like without getting all wrapped up in the "gee, I hope my team wins" mentality.
| 196 |
darthstar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:04:51am |
re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar
Exactly. But, but, what if her dad is the father!! That happens all the time!!
/
Sadly, it does.
| 197 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:04:51am |
re: #193 jamesfirecat
All people have take off their shoes in the air port because some people are terrorists.
So yeah...
That isn't even close enough to call it "apples vs. oranges" but I did enjoy the stretch so upding!
| 198 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:05:46am |
re: #186 Cannadian Club Akbar
Mkay. So the gubment lets AIG execs keep a bonus. Should we bus people to the houses of people who get to keep a pention?
I wouldn't say so, because unlike the AIG execs, those people deserve those pensions rather than running the unions they belonged to into the ground....
At least I'm assuming the rank and file union members didn't run their unions into the ground, I'd need to see the books before I can say for sure.
| 199 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:06:05am |
re: #196 darthstar
Sadly, it does.
I didn't say it doesn't happen, but not enough to carry an argument.
| 200 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:06:15am |
re: #192 RogueOne
A person under the age of 18 can't have any medical procedure without parental consent, can't get a tattoo or a piercing, but they can get an abortion and that makes sense to you?
Yes, for the reasons I gave above. If we're going to argue about it, I think you need to at least address how you would handle cases where parents pose a risk of violence to their children if they find out they're pregnant (which, in the case of a restriction, they inevitably will, one way or the other).
It would also be nice to cover the incest case, because although it is comparatively rare, it is also a pretty horrible situation that some people would undeniably be placed in.
| 201 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:06:34am |
re: #192 RogueOne
A person under the age of 18 can't have any medical procedure without parental consent, can't get a tattoo or a piercing, but they can get an abortion and that makes sense to you?
If they're dad knocked them up in the first place, yes.
| 202 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:07:17am |
re: #198 jamesfirecat
I wouldn't say so, because unlike the AIG execs, those people deserve those pensions rather than running the unions they belonged to into the ground...
At least I'm assuming the rank and file union members didn't run their unions into the ground, I'd need to see the books before I can say for sure.
Didn't they choose their union leaders?
| 203 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:07:22am |
re: #197 RogueOne
That isn't even close enough to call it "apples vs. oranges" but I did enjoy the stretch so upding!
What?
Why isn't a good analogy?
Society is all about imposing rules that we all have to follow that are annoying but are intended to minimize the damage a few bad apples can do.
| 204 |
darthstar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:07:29am |
re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't say it doesn't happen, but not enough to carry an argument.
It happens enough that parental consent shouldn't be required. Period.
| 205 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:08:10am |
re: #195 RogueOne
but they weren't "my" majority. Life is a lot more fun when you don't really care what party a person belongs to, that way I can continue to vote for specific issues and personalities I like without getting all wrapped up in the "gee, I hope my team wins" mentality.
I have never hit the "straight ticket" block, but I just voted absentee, and every arrow I drew pointed to a Democrat or write-in. I despise one of the Democrats I voted for.
| 206 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:08:51am |
re: #200 iossarian
I think that's easy, the pregnant teen needs to make an accusation. If a parent is raping their child then allowing them to get an abortion while keeping the whole thing quiet is pretty reprehensible. In Indiana you have to declare a father on the birth certificate so the state knows who to go after if child-support becomes an issue. If a rape has occurred then someone needs to be punished.
| 207 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:09:02am |
re: #204 darthstar
It happens enough that parental consent shouldn't be required. Period.
I have to disagree. If you can't get your ears pierced at the mall, no abortion.
| 208 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:09:37am |
re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't say it doesn't happen, but not enough to carry an argument.
I don't know much about the stats, but this page:
[Link: www.paralumun.com...]
suggests ~350,000 rapes a year in the US, of which 5% are by "other family members" (i.e., not husbands/partners).
Let's assume it's 1% by fathers. That makes for 3,500 cases a year.
I wonder how many of those would result in pregnancies.
| 209 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:10:22am |
re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't they choose their union leaders?
But the pension fund will be going to all union members not just the people who ruined the union's pension system unlike the way the AIG bonuses were given to the people at the top.
| 210 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:10:43am |
re: #203 jamesfirecat
What?
Why isn't a good analogy?
Society is all about imposing rules that we all have to follow that are annoying but are intended to minimize the damage a few bad apples can do.
I thought our society was all about protecting the rights of the minority? I get confused sometimes. In your example one is a security issue and involves hundreds of people on a plane and one is not.
| 211 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:10:48am |
re: #206 RogueOne
I think that's easy, the pregnant teen needs to make an accusation. If a parent is raping their child then allowing them to get an abortion while keeping the whole thing quiet is pretty reprehensible. In Indiana you have to declare a father on the birth certificate so the state knows who to go after if child-support becomes an issue. If a rape has occurred then someone needs to be punished.
Perfect. So the 15-year-old has to choose between carrying the baby and sending her father to jail.
Makes a lot of sense.
Does the abortion happen before the court case, or after it?
| 212 |
darthstar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:11:54am |
re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have to disagree. If you can't get your ears pierced at the mall, no abortion.
When getting your ears pierced results in growing a seven pound fetus in your lobe, I'll agree.
| 213 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:12:33am |
re: #205 Decatur Deb
I have never hit the "straight ticket" block, but I just voted absentee, and every arrow I drew pointed to a Democrat or write-in. I despise one of the Democrats I voted for.
Sometimes that happens. I voted for a person I can't stand, Mike Pence. Now it has gotten so bad out there that people are actually looking to him to possibly run for president. If he wins the presidency in 2012 I'm blaming the dems for it.
| 214 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:12:54am |
re: #210 RogueOne
I thought our society was all about protecting the rights of the minority? I get confused sometimes. In your example one is a security issue and involves hundreds of people on a plane and one is not.
The idea is that in cases of parental incest forcing the child to let the one responsible for their situation know about the abortion ahead of time invites several ways to make a bad situation worse.
So yes for the sins of those parents all others must accept that their children are not legally required to tell them they're getting/have gotten an abortion.
But there's no law against them telling their parents, so if they live in anything approaching a normal happy family, why wouldn't they tell them beforehand?
| 215 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:13:51am |
re: #213 RogueOne
Sometimes that happens. I voted for a person I can't stand, Mike Pence. Now it has gotten so bad out there that people are actually looking to him to possibly run for president. If he wins the presidency in 2012 I'm blaming the dems for it.
Wow... as opposed to your own side which nominated and voted for him, blame the dems!
I have no words.
| 216 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:14:14am |
re: #212 darthstar
When getting your ears pierced results in growing a seven pound fetus in your lobe, I'll agree.
My point is one is a thing done at the mall and one is a medical procedure. That all. Hell, you can't take cold medicine in skool without a note.
| 217 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:14:47am |
re: #211 iossarian
Perfect. So the 15-year-old has to choose between carrying the baby and sending her father to jail.
Makes a lot of sense.
Does the abortion happen before the court case, or after it?
There isn't a choice to make. What is wrong with people that the idea of telling a child that standing up for themselves is a horrible idea and that it's better to go ahead and get an abortion and then go back home to be molested again. I'm sorry, but that is pretty horrendous.
| 219 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:15:18am |
re: #216 Cannadian Club Akbar
My point is one is a thing done at the mall and one is a medical procedure. That all. Hell, you can't take cold medicine in skool without a note.
Your argument misses the point of why in certain cases a child having to tell their parents about the abortion / get their permission first is a very VERY bad thing....
| 220 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:15:37am |
re: #215 jamesfirecat
Wow... as opposed to your own side which nominated and voted for him, blame the dems!
I have no words.
When the dems have made the situation so bad that Mike Pence looks like a viable alternative who else should I blame? It won't be republicans alone that get him elected.
| 221 |
darthstar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:15:40am |
Okay...it's all us lizards with penises talking about what a young pregnant girl can and cannot do...maybe that's the problem. If we could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
Time to shower...laters.
| 222 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:15:55am |
re: #219 jamesfirecat
Your argument misses the point of why in certain cases a child having to tell their parents about the abortion / get their permission first is a very VERY bad thing...
No. I get it.
| 223 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:16:12am |
re: #216 Cannadian Club Akbar
My point is one is a thing done at the mall and one is a medical procedure. That all. Hell, you can't take cold medicine in skool without a note.
Incidentally, this is another reason why things are the way they are. If ear piercing was a highly regulated and safe medical procedure, there would be fewer reasons for preventing teens from getting it done without parental consent.
Ironically, restricting medical abortion just makes it more likely that women will use unsafe procedures instead.
| 224 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:16:40am |
re: #217 RogueOne
There isn't a choice to make. What is wrong with people that the idea of telling a child that standing up for themselves is a horrible idea and that it's better to go ahead and get an abortion and then go back home to be molested again. I'm sorry, but that is pretty horrendous.
Nice frame flipping.
What if the abusive father wants his 17 year old girl to carry the fetus to term and say some boy at school did it to her, when otherwise she could have aborted the thing, and moved out when she turned 18 without having to spend the rest of her life raising a child who will only remind her of her pain?
| 225 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:16:51am |
re: #221 darthstar
Okay...it's all us lizards with penises talking about what a young pregnant girl can and cannot do...maybe that's the problem. If we could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
Time to shower...laters.
That's another issue entirely. One that I'm sure will get me slapped around considerably here. I have a minor problem with the position men are put in when it comes to child birth and abortion rights.
| 226 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:17:02am |
re: #220 RogueOne
When the dems have made the situation so bad that Mike Pence looks like a viable alternative who else should I blame? It won't be republicans alone that get him elected.
But would you vote for him over Obama in a presidential election?
| 227 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:18:24am |
re: #223 iossarian
Agree. But my point is it is still a medical procedure. I get the whole "step dad is a bastard" thing.
| 228 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:18:25am |
re: #226 jamesfirecat
But would you vote for him over Obama in a presidential election?
it's all your fault - you made me do it............ i'm not responsible for what you made me do...........
| 229 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:18:46am |
re: #225 RogueOne
That's another issue entirely. One that I'm sure will get me slapped around considerably here. I have a minor problem with the position men are put in when it comes to child birth and abortion rights.
"I have a minor problem with the position men are put in when it comes to child birth and abortion rights."
On a lighter note.... if you find the position you're in hurts too much you're either doing it wrong or didn't bring enough lube.
ZING!
| 230 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:20:21am |
re: #224 jamesfirecat
Nice frame flipping.
What if the abusive father wants his 17 year old girl to carry the fetus to term and say some boy at school did it to her, when otherwise she could have aborted the thing, and moved out when she turned 18 without having to spend the rest of her life raising a child who will only remind her of her pain?
We could come up with a million what-ifs. What if the child wants to have the baby and the parents don't? What if the child is pregnant with twins and only wants to keep one? What if the child is pregnant with an illegal alien baby? What if, what if, what if....
Right now there are legal avenues for people under the age of 18 who disagree with their parents. We can't solve every imaginable situation under the sun but to put a blanket ban on parents being parents is a mistake.
| 231 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:21:09am |
re: #226 jamesfirecat
But would you vote for him over Obama in a presidential election?
Oh hell no. In that scenario we're all screwed IMO. I'd threaten to move to canada but no one ever does.
| 232 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:21:26am |
re: #229 jamesfirecat
"I have a minor problem with the position men are put in when it comes to child birth and abortion rights."
On a lighter note... if you find the position you're in hurts too much you're either doing it wrong or didn't bring enough lube.
ZING!
When I was 18, my GF told me she had a miscarriage. Turns out she had an abortion.
| 233 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:21:40am |
re: #230 RogueOne
We could come up with a million what-ifs. What if the child wants to have the baby and the parents don't? What if the child is pregnant with twins and only wants to keep one? What if the child is pregnant with an illegal alien baby? What if, what if, what if...
Right now there are legal avenues for people under the age of 18 who disagree with their parents. We can't solve every imaginable situation under the sun but to put a blanket ban on parents being parents is a mistake.
So instead we need a blanket law that says parents always have to have the right to make this decision even if they were the ones who got their child into it in the first place?
| 234 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:21:56am |
re: #212 darthstar
When getting your ears pierced results in growing a seven pound fetus in your lobe, I'll agree.
I think I saw a scene like that in a David Cronenberg movie once.
| 235 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:22:10am |
re: #233 jamesfirecat
Yes. Erring on the side of parents is the right way to go.
| 236 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:23:13am |
re: #235 RogueOne
Yes. Erring on the side of parents is the right way to go.
George Lakoff would have a field day!
| 237 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:24:28am |
re: #235 RogueOne
Yes. Erring on the side of parents is the right way to go.
Changing the law would create new problems and horror situations.
What horror situations does it solve?
Are there really that many 17 year olds and younger who are getting abortions without their parents realizing it or having a say?
| 238 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:25:59am |
Here's the irony of the conversation today, what turned me off on Mike Pence was his position on Roe V. Wade. Not that he had a position but when he was first running he said one of his first acts would be to try to get it overturned. I don't believe anyone who holds that kind of position is a serious candidate.
| 239 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:26:16am |
Another deep irony about this abortion discussion that has just occurred to me is that, although some people have a big problem with agreeing on a somewhat arbitrary cutoff point before which abortion is no big deal (say, for the sake of argument, 10 weeks), they have no problem with a completely arbitrary cutoff point of 18 years for determining whether a person can make a decision for themselves.
| 240 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:27:55am |
re: #235 RogueOne
Yes. Erring on the side of parents is the right way to go.
Can you make an argument for that position?
| 241 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:28:14am |
re: #239 iossarian
Another deep irony about this abortion discussion that has just occurred to me is that, although some people have a big problem with agreeing on a somewhat arbitrary cutoff point before which abortion is no big deal (say, for the sake of argument, 10 weeks), they have no problem with a completely arbitrary cutoff point of 18 years for determining whether a person can make a decision for themselves.
I'll take it a step further. Anyone under 18 can't vote. Therefore, shouldn't pay taxes. No representation.
| 242 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:28:28am |
re: #239 iossarian
I have to go by the standard set for me, 18. If at 18 you're considered an adult then you have all the privileges that come with it including making medical decisions for yourself. You can also toss in there owning a gun, drinking, and prostituting yourself.
| 243 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:30:20am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Can you make an argument for that position?
George Lakoff:
[Link: books.google.com...]
| 244 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:31:14am |
re: #242 RogueOne
I have to go by the standard set for me, 18. If at 18 you're considered an adult then you have all the privileges that come with it including making medical decisions for yourself. You can also toss in there owning a gun, drinking, and prostituting yourself.
You don't think in some situations that a person under 18 should be able to make a their own decision if they want to drink, own a gun or prostitute themselves?
| 245 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:32:33am |
re: #243 iossarian
Heh. I think I'll take legitimate authority over absolute authority, thanks.
| 246 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:33:19am |
re: #242 RogueOne
I have to go by the standard set for me, 18. If at 18 you're considered an adult then you have all the privileges that come with it including making medical decisions for yourself. You can also toss in there owning a gun, drinking, and prostituting yourself.
Umm... you can't legally drink when you're 18.
Just saying...
| 247 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:34:22am |
Question: In what way is a 15 year old girl who decides to have an abortion "punishing" her parents?
What other things could be considered "parent punishment"?
- Converting from Islam to Christianity (or vice-versa)?
- Coming out as gay?
- [Other suggestions]?
| 248 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:35:05am |
re: #244 Walter L. Newton
You don't think in some situations that a person under 18 should be able to make a their own decision if they want to drink, own a gun or prostitute themselves?
No. hard and fast rule, no drunken gun carrying prostitutes until they hit 18.
| 249 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:35:30am |
[Link: wnymedia.net...]
For New Yorkers, if you can stomach it. Also, note the threatening tone (what else is new) adopted by that thug's thug, Caputo - Paladino's campaign manager/enforcer.
[Link: www.buffalonews.com...]
| 250 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:36:05am |
re: #246 jamesfirecat
Umm... you can't legally drink when you're 18.
Just saying...
Nor can you carry a gun. IMO, If the law considers you an adult at 18 then you should have all the rights that come with it.
| 251 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:36:15am |
Oh hell, let's make em all responsible for themselves the second they get conceived. Can't survive when Mom is drinking a case a day and smoking a carton a day? Fuck ya!
//
| 252 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:36:18am |
re: #248 RogueOne
No. hard and fast rule, no drunken gun carrying prostitutes until they hit 18.
That's why I keep mine locked in the basement until they hit 18.
| 253 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:37:00am |
re: #246 jamesfirecat
Umm... you can't legally drink when you're 18.
Just saying...
Don't you think a person under 18 should be able to make their own decision as to when they want to drink, what they want to drink, and where they want to drink?
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:37:55am |
re: #253 Walter L. Newton
Don't you think a person under 18 should be able to make their own decision as to when they want to drink, what they want to drink, and where they want to drink?
No. Kids are stoopid.
| 255 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:38:29am |
re: #253 Walter L. Newton
Don't you think a person under 18 should be able to make their own decision as to when they want to drink, what they want to drink, and where they want to drink?
We judge whether someone is mature enough to handle those decisions. Because emotional maturity varies so widely, society has given up and said 18. Myself I think some people aren't mature enough to drink at 40, if ever.
| 256 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:38:51am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
No. Kids are stoopid.
So... kid's under 18 shouldn't be able to make their own decision if they want an abortion?
| 257 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:39:20am |
re: #255 PT Barnum
We judge whether someone is mature enough to handle those decisions. Because emotional maturity varies so widely, society has given up and said 18. Myself I think some people aren't mature enough to drink at 40, if ever.
So... kid's under 18 shouldn't be able to make their own decision if they want an abortion?
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:40:18am |
re: #256 Walter L. Newton
So... kid's under 18 shouldn't be able to make their own decision if they want an abortion?
Once again, you can't take an aspirin in skool. You can't take medication.
| 259 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:40:36am |
re: #253 Walter L. Newton
Don't you think a person under 18 should be able to make their own decision as to when they want to drink, what they want to drink, and where they want to drink?
No, but at the moment the rule is no voting till you're 18 no drinking till you're 21....
So apparently determining the future leader of our nation is considered a less mentally/morally straining task than chugging a Sam Addams....
America is weird...
| 260 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:40:59am |
re: #257 Walter L. Newton
So... kid's under 18 shouldn't be able to make their own decision if they want an abortion?
The effects of a young person having an abortion have no impact on society at large and don't have the potential to.
A drunken teenager behind the wheel of a car has a much larger circle of impact than their own family.
| 261 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:42:49am |
re: #260 PT Barnum
Exactly. I love how people are all: "but kids can't drink legally - why should they be able to have abortions?"
Some decisions have different ramifications than others.
FWIW I believe that the approach taken by such countries as Belgium to "underage" drinking is far more sensible than that of the US.
| 262 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:03am |
re: #260 PT Barnum
The effects of a young person having an abortion have no impact on society at large and don't have the potential to.
A drunken teenager behind the wheel of a car has a much larger circle of impact than their own family.
I think a person should be able to decide what to do with their own body.
| 263 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:27am |
re: #249 imp_62
Paladino's endless parade of porn. He's trying to brush it off as nothing more than a vendetta by Buffalo-area libs, and that these are more of the same kinds of emails that were released previously.
I don't see him denying that the emails were his.
What a lovely guy. Bashes the gays (before a half-assed apology). Has no problem sending out porn and racist emails.
Nice family values he's got.
F'in hypocrite.
| 264 |
garhighway Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:43am |
re: #144 RogueOne
1. A tax credit only goes to people who do something to qualify, i.e. buy a car. The meme that "most of the stimulus went to tax cuts for 95% of the public!" is not just a misrepresentation but a lie. It IS a lie. Your lie.
2. the auto bailout was a union bailout. So you wanted GM and Chrysler to go BK, and throw the auto workers, employees of suppliers and all the associated service industries out of work at the precise moment that the economy was going into a Big Finance engineered tailspin? Do you have thought on how many more points that would have added to the unemployment rate that you pretend to be concerned about? The stimulus money given to states was a SEIU bailout. Don't the states decide who to hire and fire and how much to pay them? Do you criticize the Feds for letting them do that? That doesn't sound like a "small government conservative" to me. The more recent teachers bailout was union bailout. Again, you blame the feds for how local governments run their shops. You sound like a Big Government Liberal.
| 266 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:45:13am |
re: #262 Walter L. Newton
I think a person should be able to decide what to do with their own body.
As long as it has no discernable impact on society at large, I'm with you. However your right to swing your arm ends at my nose. Just like your right to take drugs, drink alcohol, etc ends at the point that it starts to affect the rest of us because of the crime you engage in because you're intoxicated.
| 267 |
Four More Tears Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:45:19am |
Paladino in a nutshell: girl on girl = "awesome", guy on guy = "disgusting." thanks for playing, Carl.
Btw, is it just me, or is this one the nastiest politicians in recent years?
| 268 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:46:01am |
re: #260 PT Barnum
The effects of a young person having an abortion have no impact on society at large and don't have the potential to.
No impact?
I think that it would have a tremendous impact, especially if the woman didn't have the abortion - it would affect the family, the woman, not just emotionally, but affects her education and future wellbeing.
| 269 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:47:10am |
re: #268 lawhawk
It doesn't have the capacity to have lethal impact.
Either decision-- to have an abortion or not to have an abortion-- is an occurrence that might have happened anyway.
Very different from drunk driving.
| 270 |
iossarian Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:47:14am |
re: #267 JasonA
Paladino in a nutshell: girl on girl = "awesome", guy on guy = "disgusting." thanks for playing, Carl.
Btw, is it just me, or is this one the nastiest politicians in recent years?
Not just you.
| 271 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:47:48am |
re: #268 lawhawk
No impact?
I think that it would have a tremendous impact, especially if the woman didn't have the abortion - it would affect the family, the woman, not just emotionally, but affects her education and future wellbeing.
You're arguing the negative. If she can't have the abortion it does have a tremendous effect on society. Having the abortion, not so much.
| 272 |
Nervous Norvous Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:49:02am |
re: #270 iossarian
Not just you.
If the dems were smart they'd start presenting the most extreme of the TEa Party candidates and painting them as the new face of the GOP. "You wouldn't sit next to this person on the bus, why send them to Washington"
| 273 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:49:59am |
re: #264 garhighway
The bailout delayed a bankruptcy that was inevitable due to both companies being run into the ground. Bush invoked the first bailout to tide the companies over so that they wouldn't go bankrupt on his watch. Obama invoked the second round to see if more money would help get the companies turned around.
Both merely delayed the inevitable bankruptcies, but the same outcome - clearing the balance sheets, reworking deals, could have been done at far lesser costs, had the Bush Administration pushed for a bankruptcy plan that was ultimately invoked and used in both GM and Chrysler's case.
Doing so could have saved taxpayers several billion dollars - the portion from Obama's round of bailout, if not more.
And it should be noted that the status of both GM and Chrysler is anything but solid. Both still have serious structural issues to deal with and GM is still relying heavily on incentives to sell vehicles and that they got back into subprime financing of vehicle purchases/leases after GMAC helped crash the company (and subsequently was spun off in the reorganization).
| 274 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:50:40am |
re: #272 PT Barnum
If the dems were smart they'd start presenting the most extreme of the TEa Party candidates and painting them as the new face of the GOP. "You wouldn't sit next to this person on the bus, why send them to Washington"
That's the biggest "IF" in politics................
| 275 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:51:19am |
re: #267 JasonA
Paladino in a nutshell: girl on girl = "awesome", guy on guy = "disgusting." thanks for playing, Carl.
Btw, is it just me, or is this one the nastiest politicians in recent years?
Moderates, not to mention those folks a bit left-of-centre, are shell shocked by the tone and hypocrisy of the Paladino campaign. People often speak in hushed tones in public about this guy and his supporters, because - and I say this advisedly - there is a bit of a brown shirt quality to the type of backing he gets. Call it overwrought, but nobody wants to go one-on-one in an argument with a hardcore Paladino backer for fear of escalation, etc.
| 277 |
Four More Tears Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:52:55am |
For the record, this is nowhere near the kind of Republican that has a chance with New Yorkers. We need an Al D'Amato or Pataki type. You know, someone we can actually take seriously. I think I actually voted for Pataki, now that I think on it...
| 278 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:53:04am |
re: #272 PT Barnum
If the dems were smart they'd start presenting the most extreme of the TEa Party candidates and painting them as the new face of the GOP. "You wouldn't sit next to this person on the bus, why send them to Washington"
If the Dems were smart... they wouldn't be in the position the are in right now.
| 279 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:54:14am |
re: #272 PT Barnum
If the dems were smart they'd start presenting the most extreme of the TEa Party candidates and painting them as the new face of the GOP. "You wouldn't sit next to this person on the bus, why send them to Washington"
If they were smart they would have recognized what was happening after the Scott Brown win and addressed the concerns instead of painting them all as wild-eyed extremists.
| 280 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:55:11am |
re: #274 wozzablog
That's the biggest "IF" in politics...
Please it's not even an "If" any more.
Democrats do something political intelligent in an election?
Never, gonna, happen.
| 282 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:55:39am |
re: #279 RogueOne
If they were smart they would have recognized what was happening after the Scott Brown win and addressed the concerns instead of painting them all as wild-eyed extremists.
Scott Brown beat a woman who didn't even bother to campaign and insulted one of the the state's greatest baseball heroes.
| 283 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:56:14am |
re: #264 garhighway
"Big Finance" as you call it, did not engineer the financial system distress. That would make no sense, even if that sort of conspiratorial nonsense were possible. You would do better to examine the gutting of the regulatory controls over the financial industry, as encouraged and supported by BushII, for the immediate cause of financial system excess. Banks, like any other corporation, are intended to make money for shareholders and pay employees. Self-regulation, the watchword of the Bush administration, will only get you so far.
| 284 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:58:08am |
re: #282 jamesfirecat
Scott Brown beat a woman who didn't even bother to campaign and insulted one of the the state's greatest baseball heroes.
Bucky Fucking Dent?
| 285 |
Obdicut Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:58:09am |
re: #283 imp_62
Yep. And it's really just an evolutionary algorithm; financial institutions will always tend to seek short-term profit when allowed, even at the expense of long-term survival, because those are the selection pressures in the environment.
It's a natural outcome of an unregulated market for risky behavior to increase until a collapse occurs.
| 286 |
webevintage Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:00:35am |
If 18 you are considered adult enough to join the military then you should be considered an adult in every other way.
| 287 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:00:41am |
re: #285 Obdicut
but...but.....but - that nice lady from Delaware said that less regulation is always best..........and because she is there because of how badly the democrats are doing and how not enough conservative the GOP is then she must be right, right?................
| 288 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:01:18am |
re: #284 imp_62
Bucky Fucking Dent?
Curt Schilling actually.]
[Link: www.politico.com...]
I bet this went over great with the people of Red Sox nation...
| 289 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:02:14am |
re: #285 Obdicut
Yep. And it's really just an evolutionary algorithm; financial institutions will always tend to seek short-term profit when allowed, even at the expense of long-term survival, because those are the selection pressures in the environment.
It's a natural outcome of an unregulated market for risky behavior to increase until a collapse occurs.
Which is the logical and natural attachment point for regulation. An understaffed SEC and a technocratic and under-educated FDIC were no match for the product being sold by the investment banks.
The banks are not blameless. But you can't blame them for those things that were technically legal, and either explicitly or tacitly outside the scope of regulatory controls. Not to mention encouraged buy the WH.
| 290 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:02:53am |
re: #287 wozzablog
but...but...but - that nice lady from Delaware said that less regulation is always best...and because she is there because of how badly the democrats are doing and how not enough conservative the GOP is then she must be right, right?...
Be honest. You spent the entire debate trying to look down her blouse.
| 291 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:03:23am |
re: #288 jamesfirecat
Curt Schilling actually.]
[Link: www.politico.com...]
I bet this went over great with the people of Red Sox nation...
I remember when she said that. I laughed coffee out my nose.
| 292 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:05:51am |
New York State needs a bit of this to thin the thicket of public benefit corporations.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
| 293 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:07:23am |
I wonder how many posts I can fit in in a row before someone else says something. It's like talking to myself in a dark room without knowing if anybody else is there.
| 294 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:08:23am |
re: #290 imp_62
Be honest. You spent the entire debate trying to look down her blouse.
at the resolution i was trying to see it in?............ may as well have been radio.
| 295 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:08:24am |
I should ask Charles if there is some established record for serial unanswered posts in a thread.
| 296 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:09:01am |
re: #294 wozzablog
Damn you for speaking up and interrupting my attempt at a post record
/
| 297 |
lawhawk Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:10:09am |
re: #296 imp_62
You'd have to go quite a few posts... I can recall stretches of 9-10 uninterrupted postings a while back.
| 298 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:10:12am |
re: #294 wozzablog
at the resolution i was trying to see it in?... may as well have been radio.
You just know that Rule 34 applies to O'Donnell. Somewhere out there is a sextape of her. There must be.
| 299 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:10:58am |
Unemployment claims rise more than expected
New claims for unemployment benefits rose unexpectedly for the first time in three weeks, a sign that employers are reluctant to hire during the slow economic recovery.
Claims increased by 13,000 up to 462,000, only the second increase in two months, from last week's revised 449,000 for the week ended Oct. 9, the Labor Department reported Thursday.
The figures have hovered around 450,000 for most of the year and hiring hasn't picked up enough pace to make a dent in the 9.6 percent unemployment rate.
That really sucks.
| 300 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:12:26am |
Interesting post from Nate Silver....
Democratic Polling Improves in Key Senate Races, Lengthening G.O.P. Takeover Odds
After having lost ground in the Senate forecast for three consecutive weeks, Democrats have demonstrated improved polling in several key matchups over the past week, dimming Republican hopes for taking over the chamber.
The FiveThirtyEight model now gives Republicans an 18 percent chance of claiming control of the Senate after the Nov. 2 elections — down from 24 percent last week.
| 301 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:13:27am |
re: #299 NJDhockeyfan
Unemployment claims rise more than expected
That really sucks.
Why... did you read this part...
""These numbers don't fall out of the range of expectations, so they don't move the needle too much," said Jason Pride, director of investment strategy at Glenmede Investment and Wealth Management in Philadelphia."
This was all expected... nothing to worry about.
| 302 |
Wozza Matter? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:14:20am |
| 303 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:14:29am |
re: #299 NJDhockeyfan
Unemployment claims rise more than expected
That really sucks.
To the extent that part of this is due to an increase in imports, as noted in the Bloomberg article, this effect will be reversed or slowed in the next reporting period, as the dollar is weakening.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
[Link: www.ft.com...]
| 304 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:17:11am |
re: #300 Killgore Trout
Interesting post from Nate Silver...
Democratic Polling Improves in Key Senate Races, Lengthening G.O.P. Takeover Odds
I have started to suspect that the shift in campaigns from the economy to the typical conservative wedge issues (abortion, equal marriage rights, etc) would cause a re-alignment of voter allegiance. Plus, the emergence of the wingnuts will continue to force moderates and sane people to engage in this election cycle, joining the ranks of those polled as "likely to vote". The lunatic fringe primary voters can only carry these campaigns so far.
| 305 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:21:27am |
Hey Walter - her eis some info to help with your travel planning ;)
[Link: www.lemonde.fr...]
| 306 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:26:28am |
re: #305 imp_62
Hey Walter - her eis some info to help with your travel planning ;)
[Link: www.lemonde.fr...]
Thanks...
I've been reading these article, both in LeMonde (French version) and France 24 (English version) and these are more widespread and frequent than anything I've seen in the last 10 years, but I don't think it's going to last in any measurable way into mid-winter.
And Europe may be poised for a more severe winter than last year... so, I don't think there will be much happening in Jan.
Although I did sit on the tarmac at CDG for a couple of hours once, in the middle of Jan. because air traffic controllers at Orly decided to go on a one day strike and screwed up air traffic all over western Europe.
| 308 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:29:33am |
re: #306 Walter L. Newton
Thanks...
I've been reading these article, both in LeMonde (French version) and France 24 (English version) and these are more widespread and frequent than anything I've seen in the last 10 years, but I don't think it's going to last in any measurable way into mid-winter.
And Europe may be poised for a more severe winter than last year... so, I don't think there will be much happening in Jan.
Although I did sit on the tarmac at CDG for a couple of hours once, in the middle of Jan. because air traffic controllers at Orly decided to go on a one day strike and screwed up air traffic all over western Europe.
I remember you mentioned that once before. That was probably the time I had to drive from Barcelona to Munich for a meeting because flights were cancelled. Good times.
| 309 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:30:55am |
re: #308 imp_62
I remember you mentioned that once before. That was probably the time I had to drive from Barcelona to Munich for a meeting because flights were cancelled. Good times.
And just a note... it's exactly 3 months from today that I leave for the vacation... times flying.
| 310 |
joest73 Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:31:35am |
re: #303 imp_62
To the extent that part of this is due to an increase in imports, as noted in the Bloomberg article, this effect will be reversed or slowed in the next reporting period, as the dollar is weakening.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
[Link: www.ft.com...]
Then we could have Obama's face on the worthless $100,000 bill......
| 311 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:36:53am |
re: #310 joest73
Then we could have Obama's face on the worthless $100,000 bill...
Fundamental misunderstanding of economics - that bill would be worth $100,000. The dollar might not have a lot of purchasing power.
| 312 |
garhighway Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:56:46am |
re: #276 RogueOne
GM and Chrysler did go bankrupt.
Do you understand the difference between a classic, "just let the company fail" BK and what was done?
| 313 |
garhighway Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:08:51am |
re: #283 imp_62
"Big Finance" as you call it, did not engineer the financial system distress. That would make no sense, even if that sort of conspiratorial nonsense were possible. You would do better to examine the gutting of the regulatory controls over the financial industry, as encouraged and supported by BushII, for the immediate cause of financial system excess. Banks, like any other corporation, are intended to make money for shareholders and pay employees. Self-regulation, the watchword of the Bush administration, will only get you so far.
I did not mean to suggest a premeditated, coordinated conspiracy. There was no such thing. There was simply a bunch of free actors doing what they were allowed to do to make their numbers and make money.
But clearly, the collapse was the results of the actions of (for lack of a better phrase) Big Finance in the US. Take out Countrywide, New Century, Merrill, Bear, Lehman and a few other players (or moderate their actions) and you get an entirely different outcome.
And I entirely agree that there was a significant regulatory failure here. But I think it is too simple to blame it on Bush, as there were a lot of D's that voted for those changes. The "Ownership Society" was a bi-partisan construct.
| 314 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:23:51am |
re: #312 garhighway
Do you understand the difference between a classic, "just let the company fail" BK and what was done?
That wasn't the assertion. You said it was to keep them from going bankrupt and they DID go bankrupt. All the bailout did was to protect the union pension plans. It didn't do anything to resolve the underlying issues so look to see them get bailed out all over again in a decade or two.
| 315 |
garhighway Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:34:34am |
re: #314 RogueOne
That wasn't the assertion. You said it was to keep them from going bankrupt and they DID go bankrupt. All the bailout did was to protect the union pension plans. It didn't do anything to resolve the underlying issues so look to see them get bailed out all over again in a decade or two.
What the bailout did was prevent the classic unstructured BK which would have had the effects I described at precisely the worst possible time. Do you disagree with that?
How will those two firms fare in the long term? Who knows. I am pessimistic about Chrysler, as I think they got screwed twice, once by Daimler and once by the private equity boys, and there wasn't much left there. GM, on the other hand, I think has a decent shot at recovery. (But I think that it would have been politically impossible for the government to save one and not the other, so it was a package deal.)
Either way, though, letting them fail then would have been insanity. Bush saw it, but he didn't have the stones or wisdom to squarely address the problem, so he kicked the can down the road. Obama faced it squarely and put in place a fix that accomplished the main objective: preserving the jobs for the foreseeable future. No fix could guarantee those firms forever, and trying would be foolish. Should they founder again at a time when the overall economy is in a less perilous state, then they can be allowed to fail.
But I do not see how you can have an intelligent conversation about this that does not recognize the extraordinary situation the economy was in when the deal went down. That is the overriding fact. So the question remains, are you seriously contending that letting those firms fail in an uncontrolled manner and dumping all those autoworkers, suppliers workers and people in the various support businesses onto the unemployment lines in early 2009 was a good idea?
| 316 |
Gus Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:47:06am |
Didn't know where to plant this yet but here it is.
Dinesh D'Souza proves that he can outdo his past stupidity.
Is Obama trying to 'decolonize' space?
Observers were puzzled when President Obama apparently gave the space agency NASA a new mission to reach out to the world’s Muslims. But his action makes sense when you consider the influence of anticolonial ideology.
Soon after becoming president, Barack Obama evidently gave the space agency NASA a new mission of reaching out to the world’s Muslims. Observers were puzzled. Why should rocket scientists focused on outer space now worry about hearts and minds on Earth?
I believe I have solved the mystery. The reason is that President Obama has adopted his father’s ideology; the son is, as his father was, an anticolonialist. And according to this worldview, NASA is a symbol of America’s effort to colonize outer space. It follows that Obama wants to “decolonize” NASA, and that means converting it from its traditional mission of American exploration into a kind of international project to recognize what Muslims and others have contributed to the development of science.
The theory's explanatory power
Just as telling, the anticolonial assumption explains, as no other theory can, why President Obama would apparently undertake the strange task of changing the mission of NASA. Plug in our anti-colonial model and what at first seems inexplicable – converting NASA into a community outreach program for Muslims – suddenly makes complete sense. Remove the theory and it is almost impossibly difficult to account for what Obama is doing.
Recall the Moon Landing of Apollo 11 in 1969. “One small step for man,” Mr. Armstrong said. “One giant leap for mankind.” But that’s not how the rest of the world saw it. I was eight years old at the time and still living in my native India.
I remember my grandfather telling me about the great race between America and Russia to put a man on the moon. America won that race, and everybody knew it because Armstrong placed the American flag on the moon.
So it wasn’t one giant leap for mankind, but one giant leap for the United States. It was as if that flag signified, “We Americans did this. We Americans now own the moon.” I can understand how many in the third world might see the moon landing that way, because I’m from the third world and that’s the way I saw it.
If Obama shares this view, no wonder that he wants to change NASA’s focus. Even when the Muslims aren’t involved, Obama wants to make sure the Russians and the Japanese share the credit. As Bolden put it in his Al Jazeera interview: “We’re not going to go anywhere beyond low Earth orbit as a single entity. The United States can’t do it.”
Space, you see, is for human and not merely American exploration. Obama seems determined to divert NASA from being a symbol of American greatness into a more modest public relations operation that builds ties with Muslims and other peoples. For those who cherish America’s leadership role in space, it is chilling to realize that America’s own president seeks to bring that role to an end.
Read the whole exercise in stupidity here.
As many of you know, the Muslim outreach program is barely a blip on the overall mission for NASA.
| 317 |
RogueOne Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:48:07am |
re: #315 garhighway
You and I disagree. Both companies and the financial institutions involved in TARP should have been left to either pull it out on their own or die on the vine. I see the stimulus having no affect other than to delay the inevitable. Instead of getting it over with and dealing with the fallout we're in the midst of a slow drip that is going to last for years.
Another thing, what are we getting for our money? Banks that should have gone under are now screwing home owners by fiddling with foreclosure rules and last month the UAW voted to close a plant down in Indianapolis rather than take a pay cut. No big deal to them since their contract allows them to move to another plant somewhere else but it screwed Indianapolis out of millions in tax money the plant generated. My company has gone through tough times the last few years, as have most, where are our bailouts?
| 318 |
garhighway Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:28:41pm |
re: #317 RogueOne
You and I disagree. Both companies and the financial institutions involved in TARP should have been left to either pull it out on their own or die on the vine. I see the stimulus having no affect other than to delay the inevitable. Instead of getting it over with and dealing with the fallout we're in the midst of a slow drip that is going to last for years.
I am sure you would have really loved the 20% unemployment (that is a conservative guess) that we would have had with your plan. Remember September 2008? The credit markets were FROZEN. No commercial paper, no bonds, no nothing. TARP fixed that. It was imperfect, but "let 'em die" would have been the dumbest move in the history of the Western economy.Another thing, what are we getting for our money? Banks that should have gone under are now screwing home owners by fiddling with foreclosure rules and last month the UAW voted to close a plant down in Indianapolis rather than take a pay cut. No big deal to them since their contract allows them to move to another plant somewhere else but it screwed Indianapolis out of millions in tax money the plant generated. My company has gone through tough times the last few years, as have most, where are our bailouts?
Yes, it is a complicated, messy world. I would respectfully suggest that "I didn't get mine, so fuck 'em all" is a pretty stupid way to run an economy.
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