Pamela Geller and the Bloggers of Hate

Here’s my first piece for the Guardian’s “Comment is free” site: Pamela Geller and the bloggers of hate. (I didn’t pick the title or subheading, but they fit pretty well.)

I’ll cross-post the article here (including its British spellings), but you should also check out the comments at Cif; some of them are interesting. (And of course, now that I’ve posted the link, you can expect some of the usual stalkers to show up there too.)

Pamela Geller and the bloggers of hate

My site gave Geller her ‘break’ on the web. These days, I work hard to stop such extremists drowning out the moderate majority

If you happened to read the Sunday New York Times last weekend, you might have seen Anne Barnard and Alan Feuer’s profile of Pamela Geller, the extreme rightwing blogger who’s arguably done more than anyone else to incite fear and hatred over the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque”. (It was hard to miss, since it was accompanied by a photo spread showing Geller with various rightwing pundits and politicians, on Fox News, and posing in her bikini.)

One thing you’ll discover in the article is that Pamela Geller got her start on the internet by commenting at my site, Little Green Footballs. She posted more than 6,000 comments at LGF in our earlier days, when our comment moderation policy was much more laissez faire than it is now.

As I said to the Times, in those days, Geller was often the first one to take the rhetoric over the top, and the target of her rage was usually (but not always) Muslims. And not just militants or terrorists, but all Muslims; Geller was quite clear, and stated often, that she didn’t believe in the idea of a “moderate Islam” at all. (Ironically, this is an opinion she shares with the leaders of al-Qaida, who insist that all Muslims must follow their extreme interpretation of Islam.)

Several years ago, I made a very public break with Geller and her allies, such as Robert Spencer, because of their increasing radicalisation and willingness to make alliances with far rightwing anti-Islam parties in Europe, such as Belgium’s Vlaams Belang and Britain’s English Defence League.

Indeed, when Geller held her anti-Islam rally in Manhattan this year on 11 September, she invited representatives of the English Defence League to attend. This turned into a bit of an embarrassment when one of the EDL leaders was refused entry to the United States because of “entry form irregularities”, and the others had their hotel rooms searched by the FBI.

There’s a much uglier side to Pamela Geller, however, that was missed by Barnard and Feuer and needs to be pointed out: in addition to her anti-Muslim activities, Geller often supports and glorifies people who can only be described as white supremacists and genocidal war criminals.

For example, last April, Geller defended South African apartheid advocate and convicted terrorist Eugene Terreblanche, blaming his murder on “black supremacism” and warning that it was the start of “white genocide” in South Africa:

“The white genocide is heating up in South Africa: South Africa race tension grows. The whites in South Africa are keenly aware of the plans to kill them, better known as ‘The night of the long knives’. They expect it to happen very soon after the death of Mandela, but to tell this to the world is a waste of energy. Atlas has been reporting on this horror that the savages in the media ignore.”

And in July, Geller posted an ode of support to genocidal Serbian war criminal Radovan Karadzic.

The most troubling thing about a person like Geller, who enables and propagates bigotry and ignorance of all flavours, is that the issues she chooses for her demagoguery are very serious ones indeed; but when voices like hers are the loudest on the scene, they drown out the legitimate critics of militant Islam.

Since the days when Pamela Geller commented frequently at LGF, I’ve made a serious effort to develop tools for effectively moderating blog discussions, so that LGF will no longer become an inadvertent breeding ground for Geller’s brand of hatred. The web’s inherent anonymity makes it far too easy for extremists and trolls of all kinds to hijack a blog’s comments; only by taking more control of the tone of the discussion can sane bloggers start to pull things back toward the centre, away from hate-fuelled internet extremists such as Pamela Geller and her cronies.

Jump to bottom

222 comments

1 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:34:37am

I like this troll best so far:


So, Charles: are you for or against free speech?
2 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:34:44am

Excellent.

The photo posted there looks unretouched, too.

3 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:35:46am

Charles - I liked your post at cif, but you do need to know with whom you are associating at the Grauniad.

[Link: cifwatch.com...]

4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:36:17am

re: #1 Obdicut

I like this troll best so far:

He seems to be solidly pro-spellchecker, which is more than we can say for some bloggers.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:37:21am

re: #4 EmmmieG

Argh. I meant Charles was pro-spellchecker, not the troll.

6 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:44:02am

Well written and a good restatement of the essential facts. Well done Charles. The point that we all must continue to drive is that the best way to destroy legitimate criticism of Islamic terror groups and extremist radicalism is to put the Shrieking harpy and Robert Spencer front of the platform.

7 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:47:05am
The most troubling thing about a person like Geller [and Spenser and those who follow their lead], who enables and propagates bigotry and ignorance of all flavours, is that the issues she chooses for her demagoguery are very serious ones indeed; but when voices like hers are the loudest on the scene, they drown out the legitimate critics of militant Islam.

Agreed; and added Spenser since he's the one on who Geller relies for her interpretations of Islamic law...

8 darthstar  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:47:33am

Speaking of anti-Islamic fucks, Bill O'Reilly goes on the View and has Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walk off the set after he accuses muslims of attacking America.

9 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:48:18am

Good work, Charles! The best thing that you can do (and we lizards can help too), is to get the truth out to the world on these haters.

10 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:52:19am

At least some of the commenters are bringing the sanity.

11 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:52:35am

re: #9 Surabaya Stew
I agree completely.

12 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:53:19am

re: #8 darthstar

Speaking of anti-Islamic fucks, Bill O'Reilly goes on the View and has Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walk off the set after he accuses muslims of attacking America.


[Video]

Hold on - the 9/11 hijackers weren't Muslim? Or is your point that he should have further identified them as extremist?

13 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:54:06am

re: #11 PhillyPretzel

Where is a good place to order pretzels online?

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:56:29am

re: #12 imp_62

Hold on - the 9/11 hijackers weren't Muslim? Or is your point that he should have further identified them as extremist?

He's saying that since he and others are offended Muslims should voluntarily waive their constitutional right to freedom of religion. Some people find that offensive.

15 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:57:26am

re: #13 imp_62

Where is a good place to order pretzels online?

GOP.com or their offshoot, teaparty.com. Their pretzel logic is to die for (of). /

16 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:57:47am

re: #10 Obdicut

At least some of the commenters are bringing the sanity.

And speaking of the exact opposite, guess who's back in the abortion thread?

17 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:58:01am

re: #13 imp_62

This is onw place that will ship them to you. They even have an 800 number.
[Link: www.pretzelsdirect.com...]

18 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:58:59am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

He's saying that since he and others are offended Muslims should voluntarily waive their constitutional right to freedom of religion. Some people find that offensive.

As do I. The whole issue has been abstracted beyond anything reasonable people should debate, other than to keep repeating that the Constitution covers all citizens - not just angry white Christians.

19 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:59:23am

re: #16 publicityStunted

And speaking of the exact opposite, guess who's back in the abortion thread?

without looking: reason0911?

20 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:02:09am

re: #19 imp_62

Just peeked. I lose.

21 S'latch  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:03:20am

Well done.

22 darthstar  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:06:04am

re: #12 imp_62

Hold on - the 9/11 hijackers weren't Muslim? Or is your point that he should have further identified them as extremist?

He was generalizing and including all muslims in his rhetoric.

23 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:06:24am

re: #17 PhillyPretzel

This is onw place that will ship them to you. They even have an 800 number.
[Link: www.pretzelsdirect.com...]

Oh geez- they ship Tastykakes too.

24 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:08:22am

re: #22 darthstar

Got it, thanks. See my post in response to Killgore Trout for the avoidance of doubt on my position.

25 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:09:05am

I think the counterJihad bloggers affection towards Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists was foreshadowing a larger change in the American Right. Nativists, White nationalists, neoConfederates and New World Order nuts are now openly embraced by American conservatives and nobody seems to complain about it.

26 darthstar  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:10:13am

re: #23 imp_62

Oh geez- they ship Tastykakes too.

My wife and a number of her friends went to Penn. Last Summer, we had a mini-Penn reunion...rented a 36" flatiron grill, had Tastykakes, buns, pretzels, and Philly cheese steak meat shipped to California, and grilled ourselves silly...there was cheezewhiz for the purists, cherry peppers, etc... Good times.

27 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:13:49am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

I think the counterJihad bloggers affection towards Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists was foreshadowing a larger change in the American Right. Nativists, White nationalists, neoConfederates and New World Order nuts are now openly embraced by American conservatives and nobody seems to complain about it.

The moderate electorate is still in denial, hoping this will all go away. I don't know if it is better for them to be correct, reinforcing the innate political apathy of the centre, or if it would be of long term benefit for the Fringe Right and Palinistas to make inroads, and scare the centre back into political awareness.

28 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:14:35am

re: #27 imp_62

or, maybe when some people develop a sense of humor there won't be so many "misunderstandings"....

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

29 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:14:35am

re: #24 imp_62
Yes. If my nephew is accepted to an out of state college guess who will be sending him some Philly goodies.

30 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:17:25am

re: #29 PhillyPretzel

Yes. If my nephew is accepted to an out of state college guess who will be sending him some Philly goodies.

I don't know whether to order stuff online or wait until I go down to Philly on 30/31 October and bring it back.

31 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:17:56am

Oh, Gawd..... If you need any further proof that Pamz and those who follow her have gone over the edge this should convince you.

The harpy and the gnome are now FREEDOM'S SUPERHEROES: COUNTER JIHAD DYNAMIC DUO!

Scroll to the bottom of the post.

/I'm feeling safer already

32 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:18:14am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

OT--
Kilgore assuming you are the violin mechanic, check this:

[Link: cgi.ebay.com...]

33 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:21:21am

re: #31 Bubblehead II

Staggering. (And good that it was a cache.)

34 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:24:04am

Lunchtime. BBL

35 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:24:58am

re: #32 Decatur Deb

OT--
Kilgore assuming you are the violin mechanic, check this:

[Link: cgi.ebay.com...]

It's a fake. That label was printed recently with a laser printer. The ink is still shiny. The back and the scroll look nice but I seriously doubt it's even italian. Probably german circa 1880.

36 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:26:56am

Has Varek been around lately? I don't think I've seen him in days.

37 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:27:05am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

It's a fake. That label was printed recently with a laser printer. The ink is still shiny. The back and the scroll look nice but I seriously doubt it's even italian. Probably german circa 1880.

Cool. I don't remember Vicenza claiming any violin heritage, did get to visit the museum in Cremona.

38 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:27:28am

re: #36 RogueOne

Yep.

Last thread.

39 jamesfirecat  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:27:32am

re: #16 publicityStunted

And speaking of the exact opposite, guess who's back in the abortion thread?

Christine O'Donnell says I can't masturbate, that guy says I can't have sex without consenting to look after any child that is born, is there no relief?

40 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:27:50am

re: #36 RogueOne
I believe I saw him the other night. He is around.

41 Lidane  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:27:52am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

I think the counterJihad bloggers affection towards Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists was foreshadowing a larger change in the American Right. Nativists, White nationalists, neoConfederates and New World Order nuts are now openly embraced by American conservatives and nobody seems to complain about it.

And that honestly scares me. It's bad enough to have the far right religious nutjobs trying to impose their rules and their will on the rest of us. Throwing in the overt racists and conspiracy nuts just makes it that much worse.

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:29:56am

re: #36 RogueOne

He's been around. Probably putting his directed energy weapons back in battery to face the threat from the Tea Party spaceborne laser fleet:

[Link: www.google.com...]

43 Lidane  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:30:11am

re: #39 jamesfirecat

Christine O'Donnell says I can't masturbate, that guy says I can't have sex without consenting to look after any child that is born, is there no relief?

I'd suggest porn, but the wingnuts probably want to outlaw that too.

44 sliv_the_eli  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:31:41am

re: #27 imp_62

The "moderate electorate" or, as former President Nixon descrbed them, the "silent majority" are not necessarily unaware or unconcerned about the problem. For the moment, however, they are largely more concerned these days with the country's economic problems and the push by the Left and the Democratic Party to grow the size, reach and power of government at the expense of individual freedom and at the financial expense of generations yet unborn. With a solidly left-leaning president, many moderates who have thought about the issue look at the right-ward shift of the Republican Party as something that is, in the short-term, a non-event, because the right wing will lack the power to force through their agenda over the President's veto power, while the President will lack the power to ram through programs that are anathema to the center nd the right. To the extent that a few members of the far right wind up in office, they can always be voted out of office when politics shift back to the center.

45 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:31:43am

re: #43 Lidane

I'd suggest porn, but the wingnuts probably want to outlaw that too.

lulz

46 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:31:51am

re: #43 Lidane

Except when they're spreading it themselves (see Paladino, Carl).

47 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:31:56am

re: #33 Decatur Deb

Staggering. (And good that it was a cache.)

Google Cache is like a condom. You get to enjoy the activity without the risk of catching something.

48 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:32:09am

re: #43 Lidane

I'd suggest porn, but the wingnuts probably want to outlaw that too.

I believe that issue has been taken over by the dems in NY and DE this season. Look for it to return to its normal sponsors somewhere around Nov. 3rd.

49 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:33:10am

re: #48 RogueOne

I meant NY and CT. My bad

50 jaunte  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:34:20am

re: #31 Bubblehead II

Oh, Gawd... If you need any further proof that Pamz and those who follow her have gone over the edge this should convince you.

The harpy and the gnome are now FREEDOM'S SUPERHEROES: COUNTER JIHAD DYNAMIC DUO!

Scroll to the bottom of the post.

/I'm feeling safer already

It's the Barnum & Bilbo circus.

51 Michael McBacon  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:34:45am

I can relate to cutting ties with hate bloggers. I was a member of the Jewish Internet Defense Force (JIDF). When the "Ground Zero Mosque" nontroversy erupted, their Kahanism became more apparent. And their relations with Pam, Robert Spencer, Debbie Schlussel, Orly Taitz and the EDL were too close for comfort. It was time to leave. Thank the sanity here at LGF (trolls aside).

52 webevintage  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:34:55am

re: #8 darthstar

Speaking of anti-Islamic fucks, Bill O'Reilly goes on the View and has Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walk off the set after he accuses muslims of attacking America.

Ha.
Hasselfuck went on to stand up for Bill'O and explained how all the Islamaphobia over the Mosque was President Obama's fault.

In contrast last night Condolezza Rice was on The Daily Show and when Stewart asked her about the uptick in Islamaphbia she said that there has been a "dialing up on the volume" of "a few extreme voices" on this subject

53 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:36:34am

re: #52 webevintage

I saw her touting her new book this morning on MSNBC. I really like her, I mean really like her.

54 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:37:33am

re: #37 Decatur Deb

Cool. I don't remember Vicenza claiming any violin heritage, did get to visit the museum in Cremona.

This volume details more than 20 violins, violas and violoncellos by the Italian and French masters of violin making. The instruments span four centuries and are the essence of this photo documentary – a limited edition of just 2000 copies.By Jost Thoene. In addition to essays by Florian Leonhard and Igor Moroder, there is a short biography of each master and drawings by the Italian artist Ciro Maddaluno. The book contains magnificent life sized colour plates of each instrument. Text is available in English, French, Italian, German and Korean. Instruments from the following makers are displayed in this book: Riccardo Antoniazzi, Paul Bailly, Gustave Bernardel, Primo Contavalli, Raffaele & Antonio Gagliano, Giorgio Gatti, Matteo Goffriller, Antonio Gragnani, Pietro Grulli, Giovanni Battista de Lorenzi, Nicolas Lupot, Pierre Pacherele, Gaetano Pareschi, Ansaldo Poggi, Azzo Rovescalli, Francesco Ruggieri, Iginio Sderci, Sanctus Serafino, Gaetano Sgarabotto, Antonio Sgarbi, Lorenzo Storioni, Jean Baptiste Vuillaume.

[Link: www.amatibooks.com...]

55 Stanghazi  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:37:35am

re: #52 webevintage

Hasselfuck! Excellent form this morn webe!

56 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:39:53am

re: #37 Decatur Deb

Cool. I don't remember Vicenza claiming any violin heritage, did get to visit the museum in Cremona.

Probably by Giovanni Battista de Lorenzi (fl Vicenza, late 19th century) A violin - Italy, late 19th century, A violin

Read Condition Report

[Link: browse.sothebys.com...]

57 webevintage  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:40:24am

re: #55 Stanley Sea

Hasselfuck! Excellent form this morn webe!

Thank you.
Can't remember where I first heard that but I hate her with the heat of 1000 burning suns and thought it suited her....she is one of those people who I have no idea why they have a job.
I think she is going to FOX soon.....

58 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:42:31am

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

Thanks--I can appreciate the craft in them, but I'm strictly a music consumer.

59 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:43:42am

re: #29 PhillyPretzel

Yes. If my nephew is accepted to an out of state college guess who will be sending him some Philly goodies.

I was going from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis once via Akron to pick someone up and a friend of theirs requested that I bring out a few Primanti's* sandwiches for them.

I've also flown from Virginia to Oregon with 8 tins of fish steaks in hot sauce in my luggage. That was a request from my father who couldn't find them where he was. I'm sure the security guys with the X-ray machine got a kick out of that suitcase.

* - Primanti's is a place in Pittsburgh that makes sandwiches that include fries and coleslaw *in* the sandwich. A fixture, and I've even seen it mentioned in a short writeup in an issue in National Geographic.

60 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:44:21am

re: #50 jaunte

It's the Barnum & Bilbo circus.

From your link.

For years, a bronze statue of him stood in the rotunda of the Mississippi state Capitol building, but it was eventually relocated to a room where the Legislative Black Caucus often meets, where Bilbo's outstretched arm is occasionally used as a coat rack.

ROTFLMAO!

61 webevintage  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:44:44am

I got stuff to do, but before I go I will leave you with this:

TeeVee’s Pat Sajak Has Repealed Voting Rights For Government Workers
[Link: wonkette.com...]


In nearly all private and public endeavors, there are occasions in which it’s only fair and correct that a person or group be barred from participating because that party could directly and unevenly benefit from decisions made and policies adopted. So should state workers be able to vote in state elections on matters that would benefit them directly? The same question goes for federal workers in federal elections.

hahahahahaha

62 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:45:16am

re: #59 oaktree
No doubt; they probably did.

63 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:46:28am

re: #58 Decatur Deb

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

Thanks--I can appreciate the craft in them, but I'm strictly a music consumer.

I don't know poop about violins (although there is one in the family from the 1860's somewhere)... I was just using some Google-fu to give you some info... mainly that evidently there was violin making by this person in Vicenza.

That's all.

64 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:47:01am

re: #57 webevintage

Thank you.
Can't remember where I first heard that but I hate her with the heat of 1000 burning suns and thought it suited her...she is one of those people who I have no idea why they have a job.
I think she is going to FOX soon...

She's certainly got the look.

65 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:47:29am

re: #51 UNIXon

I can relate to cutting ties with hate bloggers. I was a member of the Jewish Internet Defense Force (JIDF). When the "Ground Zero Mosque" nontroversy erupted, their Kahanism became more apparent. And their relations with Pam, Robert Spencer, Debbie Schlussel, Orly Taitz and the EDL were too close for comfort. It was time to leave. Thank the sanity here at LGF (trolls aside).

I got a few emails from David of JIDF after he deleted a comment I made there about Geller being bad news. Here's one:

My position is not that all Muslims are violent.

My position is that Islam, the ideology, is.

There is a nuance to our approach, which you are missing.

We do not talk about "Muslims" - we talk about Islam. Whether or not Muslims practice Islam the way it's supposed to be practiced is not our business.

Islam itself is a hateful and violent ideology which clearly promotes hate and violence against all non-Muslims.

David

Good that you left. I don't think he's open to changing his mind.

66 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:49:16am

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

I don't know poop about violins (although there is one in the family from the 1860's somewhere)... I was just using some Google-fu to give you some info... mainly that evidently there was violin making by this person in Vicenza.

That's all.

Yeah, Vicenza has a great art history, but their fame is architecture. (Now their economy is gold, leather, fashion and furs. Bad place to keep a wife and two daughters.)

67 funky chicken  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:49:25am

re: #57 webevintage

You hate that dumb gal? She's got the job because she's cute and married to a football player, and is willing to sit around and gab with the equally dumb but ideologically opposite Whoopie Goldberg.

Why anybody watches that drivel is beyond me.

68 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:49:34am

re: #65 wrenchwench
I will stick with Commentary Magazine.

69 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:50:59am

re: #44 sliv_the_eli

This is a well reasoned statement. I sense that there is a fundamental shift starting to move the "silent majority" away from simply playing the role of a counterbalancing weight. When the politicians and positions were distinguished in varying shades of grey, who was in control at any given time was of no immediate consequence; the generally accepted 4 year "lag" between any enacted law or executive policy and any measurable impact was seen as sufficient time to make any necessary adjustments at the polls. In a political age where many candidates are threatening to undertake immediate and measurable attacks on the freedoms of the body politic, I think people will be energized to vote and express their displeasure at the Palinistas, Paladinistas and Tea Party Polemicists. If not this year, certainly by the next cycle.

70 Stanghazi  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:51:28am

re: #61 webevintage

I got stuff to do, but before I go I will leave you with this:

TeeVee’s Pat Sajak Has Repealed Voting Rights For Government Workers
[Link: wonkette.com...]

hahahahahaha

TPM's comment on the story was:

Pat, I'd like to buy a W T & F

71 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:53:11am

re: #68 PhillyPretzel

I will stick with Commentary Magazine.

When you see something good over there, link it over here because I don't get out much. I was at JIDF because somebody linked to them in the Pages.

72 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:54:15am

re: #70 Stanley Sea
You buy vowels not consonants.

73 funky chicken  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:54:58am

re: #61 webevintage

I got stuff to do, but before I go I will leave you with this:

TeeVee’s Pat Sajak Has Repealed Voting Rights For Government Workers
[Link: wonkette.com...]

hahahahahaha

Huh. I guess military members should lose their voting rights too, huh? Add in policemen and fire fighters and ambulance drivers and doctors at government medical schools, etc.

I wonder if Pat would let me vote? My husband is in the military, so I have an interest in how elections go.

74 Uncle Meat  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:55:29am

Just wanted to drop an OT note thanking Charles and everyone for such an excellent blog. Countless idle hours I've spent reading these comments while I'm at my different job sites, waiting on computers and people. This has become about the only site I regularly check anymore for my politics fix.

Maybe soon I'll have something worth saying about a topic, until then back to lurking!

75 Stanghazi  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:56:10am

re: #72 PhillyPretzel

You buy vowels not consonants.

I'm very very relieved I didn't know that!

76 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:56:25am

re: #71 wrenchwench

I use Charles' Links. Commnetary is listed there.

77 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:57:38am

re: #75 Stanley Sea

LOL

78 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:58:10am

re: #73 funky chicken

Huh. I guess military members should lose their voting rights too, huh? Add in policemen and fire fighters and ambulance drivers and doctors at government medical schools, etc.

I wonder if Pat would let me vote? My husband is in the military, so I have an interest in how elections go.

The whole statement by Sajak makes no sense. First of all, he's Canadian. Secondly, anybody with the right to vote is given this right in order to have a say in matters of state that have an effect on him or her. By extention, nobody who has the right to vote should be allowed to do so.

Today's secret word is: Duh

79 jaunte  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:01:20am

re: #78 imp_62

We already have too many voters 'recusing' themselves.
[Link: www.infoplease.com...]

80 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:02:25am

re: #79 jaunte

We already have too many voters 'recusing' themselves.
[Link: www.infoplease.com...]

Look for a record turnout for midterm elections this year.

81 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:05:17am

Well said, Charles. *Thumbs up*

82 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:11:13am

re: #80 imp_62

Look for a record turnout for midterm elections this year.

We need one of the smart people around here to start a pool. The turnout percentage could be an over/under number.

83 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:14:17am

re: #82 RogueOne
As someone who has been a committeewoman in Philly for 18 years; one thing you cannot predict is how many people will vote and who they will vote for.

84 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:15:06am

re: #83 PhillyPretzel
opps change out the ; for a ,

85 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:15:13am

re: #83 PhillyPretzel

As someone who has been a committeewoman in Philly for 18 years; one thing you cannot predict is how many people will vote and who they will vote for.

I predict 55%.

86 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:15:57am

re: #85 RogueOne

I predict 55%.

Tea Party candidate states: 60% or higher.

87 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:16:25am

re: #85 RogueOne
I will not argue. We will see what happens and I am NOT putting any money on it.

88 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:17:01am

re: #84 PhillyPretzel

opps change out the ; for a ,

As long as you didn't need to substitute "committeman" for "committewoman".

89 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:17:24am

Did everyone see this yesterday? I saw it on Morning Joe this morning:


Since Dick Cheney shot him, Harry Whittington's aim has been to move on

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

He's still sorry Cheney had to shoot him.

90 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:18:12am

Sure enough, the stalkers have shown up now.

91 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:18:23am

re: #87 PhillyPretzel

I will not argue. We will see what happens and I am NOT putting any money on it.

That would be illegal and I would never suggest betting money on elections. We could bet cookies though./

92 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:18:47am

re: #88 imp_62
LOL

93 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:20:18am

re: #91 RogueOne

That would be illegal and I would never suggest betting money on elections. We could bet cookies though./

Tastykakes

94 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:20:24am

re: #91 RogueOne
No bets. I do not have anything to bet. And I do not want to.

95 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:24:52am

re: #94 PhillyPretzel

No bets. I do not have anything to bet. And I do not want to.

Hey, Pretzel, wanna come to the Schuylkill regatta and have a Coke?

96 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:26:06am

re: #95 imp_62
No thank you. It is very good of you to offer.

97 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:27:54am

re: #80 imp_62

Look for a record turnout for midterm elections this year.

Why do you think turnout will be so high?

98 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:29:54am

re: #91 RogueOne

That would be illegal and I would never suggest betting money on elections. We could bet cookies though./

Why not pie?

99 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:30:46am

re: #97 Taqyia2Me

I think it will be high on one side and low on the other. Turnout in '08 in Indiana was 60% and a mid-term election won't be higher than that. 55% would be a big number.

100 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:31:13am

re: #97 Taqyia2Me

Why do you think turnout will be so high?

I have posted a few times on my sense that the moderate electorate is being shaken out of its slumber this cycle. The Tea Party and the other rightwing fringe nutters are starting to scare people. In sports, they would call this peaking too soon - the championship game is in November, and the wingnuts peaked in September.

101 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:31:25am

re: #97 Taqyia2Me

Why do you think turnout will be so high?

Because the wingnuts are pissed off that they lost the last election and believe this is their opportunity to set things right.

Of course they will waste that opportunity on frivolous crap, so by 2012 they'll be out on their ears again.

102 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:31:38am

re: #98 PT Barnum

Why not pie?

Because pie day was last week and nobody wants stale pie!

103 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:32:11am

re: #102 imp_62

Because pie day was last week and nobody wants stale pie!

Hey..every day is pie day in these parts. Anybody who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight!

104 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:32:12am

re: #98 PT Barnum

Why not pie?

I'm open to all suggestions but shipping pies could be a problem. My wife sent me 4 dozen cookies while I was in Denver and she put them in a tube like they use to ship drawings. Worked out well.

105 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:32:48am

re: #101 PT Barnum

Because the wingnuts are pissed off that they lost the last election and believe this is their opportunity to set things right.

Of course they will waste that opportunity on frivolous crap, so by 2012 they'll be out on their ears again.

nah, 2016. Don't be such a cynic./

106 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:32:49am

re: #96 PhillyPretzel

No thank you. It is very good of you to offer.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to meet me, either. Hell, I barely talk to myself - well, not often, and almost never in public.

107 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:33:33am

re: #104 RogueOne

I'm open to all suggestions but shipping pies could be a problem. My wife sent me 4 dozen cookies while I was in Denver and she put them in a tube like they use to ship drawings. Worked out well.

That makes sense. I withdraw my suggestion, but then if I lost I'd be sending a stack of Oreos in a pringles can. Now if someone has some Thin Mints left from last year's Girl Scout cookie drive we might have to discuss it further.

108 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:33:50am

re: #104 RogueOne

I'm open to all suggestions but shipping pies could be a problem. My wife sent me 4 dozen cookies while I was in Denver and she put them in a tube like they use to ship drawings. Worked out well.

Actually, she shipped you a Picasso. The post office switched it for cookies.

109 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:34:43am

re: #107 PT Barnum

That makes sense. I withdraw my suggestion, but then if I lost I'd be sending a stack of Oreos in a pringles can. Now if someone has some Thin Mints left from last year's Girl Scout cookie drive we might have to discuss it further.

Haven't the scouts been to your door this year, yet? Ours showed up last week. They are like angelic little fast talking dope peddlers.

110 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:34:44am

re: #105 RogueOne

nah, 2016. Don't be such a cynic./

Thinking they would be out on their ears in 2012 is idealistic. If I thought they'd be there till 2014 or 2016, now that would be cynical.

111 Nervous Norvous  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:35:59am

re: #109 imp_62

Haven't the scouts been to your door this year, yet? Ours showed up last week. They are like angelic little fast talking dope peddlers.

Not yet..my son's selliing popcorn for cub scouts. I know what all the peripheral relatives are getting for Xmas!

I saw the Girl Scouts at the local grocery store one time and had to give them the shun (talk to the hand), or I would have bought their whole supply.

112 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:38:05am

Chores to do. bbiaw

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:38:32am

I'm not terribly opposed to the Chamber of Commerce but this is just absurd....
"Populist" Glenn Beck wants listeners to donate money to corporate interests


Glenn Beck is urging his listeners to donate money to the Chamber of Commerce.

Now, the Chamber of Commerce is not simply an advocacy organization pursing an ideological agenda, like the National Rifle Association or the National Right to Life Committee. It is a trade association representing some of the largest corporations you can think of. Its board of directors counts among its members executives from Pfizer, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, US Airways, JPMorgan Chase & Co., IBM, and Verizon

Ugh.

114 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:39:50am

re: #110 PT Barnum

Thinking they would be out on their ears in 2012 is idealistic. If I thought they'd be there till 2014 or 2016, now that would be cynical.

Did you see the Stewart interview of Cantor earlier this week? It was a good one:

I have to give it to him, Stewart's interview skills get better and better.

115 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:40:55am

re: #113 Killgore Trout

I'm not terribly opposed to the Chamber of Commerce but this is just absurd...
"Populist" Glenn Beck wants listeners to donate money to corporate interests

Ugh.

I am going to incorporate as the "Chamber of Comerce" and get a link on Beck's site for PayPal donations.

KA-CHING

116 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:41:32am

re: #115 imp_62

I am going to incorporate as the "Chamber of Comerce" and get a link on Beck's site for PayPal donations.

KA-CHING

Profit!

117 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:42:47am

re: #115 imp_62
LOL

118 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:49:18am

Well, this place is more excitement than I can bear. Plus, getting the brush-off from PhillyPretzel has left a big gaping hole where my ego used to be.

Going to say "hi" to my son, and set up the present I bought for my wife:
[Link: www.brookstone.com...]

119 RogueOne  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:51:04am

re: #118 imp_62

and I need to get my hair done. Enjoy the rest of your day people....

120 sliv_the_eli  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:53:48am

re: #69 imp_62

I think more likely in the next cycle, as it seems the middle is much more concerned these days about unseating the Obama-Pelosi-Reid troika. However, as I have posted on these pages before, there will probably be a number of races in which the Republican candidates are so outlandish that the voters will hold their collective noses and re-elect Dem incumbents or vote for Dems where the anti-incumbent mood might otherwise cause them to vote Repub.

121 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:55:11am

re: #120 sliv_the_eli

I think more likely in the next cycle, as it seems the middle is much more concerned these days about unseating the Obama-Pelosi-Reid troika. However, as I have posted on these pages before, there will probably be a number of races in which the Republican candidates are so outlandish that the voters will hold their collective noses and re-elect Dem incumbents or vote for Dems where the anti-incumbent mood might otherwise cause them to vote Repub.

Not a lot of daylight between your thoughts and mine. Wait and see...

122 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:55:21am

Good piece on Beck and his conspiracy mongering from yesterday's Fresh Air.

123 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:57:01am

re: #122 negativ

Good piece on Beck and his conspiracy mongering from yesterday's Fresh Air.

I now offcially dislike Glenn Beck more than I do the band Beck. And that takes some doing

124 Gus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:57:26am

re: #113 Killgore Trout

I'm not terribly opposed to the Chamber of Commerce but this is just absurd...
"Populist" Glenn Beck wants listeners to donate money to corporate interests

Ugh.

The whole thing is hilarious and exposes how confused or blind American's are to politics. For example:

U.S. Chamber backs Democrat Harry Mitchell

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is endorsing U.S. Rep. Harry Mitchell’s reelection bid.

The U.S. Chamber, normally in the Republican camp, likes Mitchell’s stance on tax cuts and is favoring the Tempe Democrat over Republican challenger David Schweikert.

Mitchell supports keeping investment and capital gains tax cuts in place, contrary to the position taken by Democratic leadership and President Barack Obama.

Mitchell was elected in 2006 and faces a tough contest in his Scottsdale/Tempe/Ahwatukee district, which has Republican voter registration edge.

Harry Mitchell also voted yes on TARP, the Stimulus, and the health care reform bill.

125 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:58:37am

One of the reasons that the more extreme ideas were held at bay in the Republican party was William F Buckley Jr. I miss him.

126 sliv_the_eli  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 11:58:57am

re: #121 imp_62

Agreed. Whatever else is the case, it should be interesting.

127 shutdown  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:00:10pm

re: #125 PhillyPretzel

One of the reasons that the more extreme ideas were held at bay in the Republican party was William F Buckley Jr. I miss him.

I'll bet you would have had a Coke with him.

128 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:03:28pm

re: #127 imp_62

No.

129 funky chicken  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:12:30pm

re: #78 imp_62

Maybe he thinks Canadians should vote in US elections and Americans should vote in the Canadian ones? Hey, maybe it would work out, until the pranks began--just imagine President Christine O'Donnell?

130 Four More Tears  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:14:38pm

Just finished my business at the DMV. Oy.

131 funky chicken  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:16:25pm

re: #124 Gus 802

I'm sure he opposes any immigration controls, which will keep labor costs down. That's why the Chamber of Commerce supports him, would be my guess.

He likes low taxes, corporate welfare (TARP), and keeping labor costs low.

132 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:20:56pm

the dark one used to post here?

133 philosophus invidius  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:22:08pm

Not sure if this has been pointed out before, but ...
Geller's talk of "Islamic supremacism" and "black supremacism" takes a page right out of David Duke's doublespeak lexicon: justifying hate by spuriously making it seem that you are fighting hate.

Google: "jewish supremacism"

134 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:22:22pm

re: #130 JasonA

#1 or #2?
/////!

135 Yashmak  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:23:39pm

I'm very much encouraged that the vast majority of the comments seem to be in agreement with/support of the article (even those who leaven their comments with a sprinkling of snark).

136 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:26:40pm

re: #135 Yashmak

I'm very much encouraged that the vast majority of the comments seem to be in agreement with/support of the article (even those who leaven their comments with a sprinkling of snark).

But now the stalkers are ranting away like crazy, of course.

137 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:28:05pm

re: #132 SpaceJesus

the dark one used to post here?

Yep. And it looks like she used to believe in Moderate Muslims:

56 AtlasShrugged 2/27/2005 1:25:46 pm PST

43 Dov

No it is not for it will eventually lead to another muslim arm from the middle east reaching West

No Dov, I beg to differ. There is astruggle, a real struggle, going on in the Muslim world between radical fundamentalism and Moderate Islam (no wisecracks). This is not a battle meant for Western public consumption.

But it is real and we, the West, must do everything in our power to support and strengthen the Moderates.

The losing of Europe is a bad thing no matter how you twist it.

and the election of a radical leader in Iraq is not a good thing.

138 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:28:57pm

re: #136 Charles

But now the stalkers are ranting away like crazy, of course.

They miss their daddy :)

Honestly Charles, I give you much credit for being able to have a sense of humor about such a following.

139 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:30:42pm

Both Spencer and Geller have now responded with their typical venom.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:31:09pm

OT, but since the stalkers are reading this, I will cross post:

This is a brilliantly simple demonstration done by both a professional scientist and a kid for science fair. Seeing is believing.

All those deniers could try this themselves actually.

Peter Sinclair then goes on to hammer the point about the effect on the Earth as a whole. The very basic and well understood physics here is part of why the open denialsphere appears so incomprehensible to the legitimate scientific community.

Not to be too blunt, but you have to either be seriously stupid or, in the case of those with credentials, utterly sold out or just plain crazy, to pretend that somehow the teratons of CO2 we have added to the atmosphere have no effect.

141 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:31:21pm

charles should play a joke on the stalkers some time. like put up a blog post saying something like "I was wrong about you guys, you were right all along." then let them all come back and post for a few minutes, then ban them all again with a big "lol, psyche".

142 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:32:05pm

re: #141 SpaceJesus

charles should play a joke on the stalkers some time. like put up a blog post saying something like "I was wrong about you guys, you were right all along." then let them all come back and post for a few minutes, then ban them all again with a big "lol, psyche".

That would be epic!

143 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:32:57pm

re: #141 SpaceJesus

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

That would be funny.

144 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:34:26pm

re: #141 SpaceJesus

charles should play a joke on the stalkers some time. like put up a blog post saying something like "I was wrong about you guys, you were right all along." then let them all come back and post for a few minutes, then ban them all again with a big "lol, psyche".

Or reactivate their accounts, but as soon as they log in, they get automatically redirected to a Google image search for fournier gangrene >:D (link NSFW or stomachs!!)

145 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:35:20pm

May I ask by the way that Pam and her ohhh so conservative female fellow travelers, like the bimbos on Fox, Palin Coulter etc... keep their clothes on and dress a little more in a way that lends them to be taken seriously?

Honestly, skinny wannabe cougar types in skirts that barely cover their bottoms, is not appealing and given the ugliness of what they say only adds to the opposite of being sexy.

146 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:35:25pm

re: #144 publicityStunted

i'd prefer a good ol' fashioned rick rolling myself

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:38:37pm

re: #146 SpaceJesus

OK, here is video about how I recant my views on AGW...

148 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:48:24pm

It bothers me that the whacko fringe draws attention away from legitimate worries about Islamic extremism.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of the idea of siting an Islamic center in a building that was damaged during 9/11. I'm not foaming at the mouth about it, and I have a problem with the fact that the minority of people who are foaming at the mouth about it tend to get the rest of us tarred with the same brush.

I absolutely agree that the organizers have the right to build the center wherever they please. However, having the right to build Park51 doesn't mean that it's appropriate to build Park51. Comparing the uproar over Park51 to the 1980s protests over a convent near Auschwitz is an imperfect parallel, and a recent International Affairs Review article does make some compelling arguments against linking the two, but choosing to build an Islamic center in a location damanged during a religious-inspired act of terror in spite of substantial opposition by the public at large concerns me.

Unfortunately, Ms. Gellar's apparent desire to turn honest opposition into some sort of American version of a "Palestinian Day of Rage" makes it difficult for me to raise objections without being labeled a nut.

Similarly, Gellar's claims of secret Arabic messages in the Quran tends to deligitimize genuine concerns over both Quranic justification for extremist Islamic practices and the tendency of many in the Middle East to say one thing in English and another in their native language. If I remember correctly, the latter was a favorite tactic of Yasser Arafat's, while the former raises its head with alarming frequency. A report earlier this week from the UK of a Muslim cleric's claim that rape is impossible within marriage highlights the need to rebut bad interpretations of the Quran through scholarship, not fearmongering.

I worry though, that there's a temptation to focus too much on the fringe opposition, while ignoring, glossing over, or rationalizing away the true extremism against which the whacko fringe rails. The Washington Post spikes a "Non Sequitur" cartoon for fear of offending Muslim sensibilities and denounces Israel for building homes in its own capital city, but labels criticism of Park51 as racist and intolerant.

Sadly, even a casual review of recent LGF topics gives me pause to think. I sometimes wish we'd spend even half as much time on the threats of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda's various incarnations, and Hamas as we do on the dangers of Pam Gellar, Robert Stacy McCain, and Glenn Beck.

149 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:54:17pm

re: #139 Charles

Both Spencer and Geller have now responded with their typical venom.

Is this going to cost me another tip jar hit? Perhaps I should re-look the subscription.

150 webevintage  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:56:11pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

May I ask by the way that Pam and her ohhh so conservative female fellow travelers, like the bimbos on Fox, Palin Coulter etc... keep their clothes on and dress a little more in a way that lends them to be taken seriously?

Honestly, skinny wannabe cougar types in skirts that barely cover their bottoms, is not appealing and given the ugliness of what they say only adds to the opposite of being sexy.

I think I read somewhere that the gals at FOX dress the way FOX wants them to dress sexy and no pants.

151 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:57:26pm

re: #148 foobear2

Frankly, I'm not a fan of the idea of siting an Islamic center in a building that was damaged during 9/11. I'm not foaming at the mouth about it, and I have a problem with the fact that the minority of people who are foaming at the mouth about it tend to get the rest of us tarred with the same brush.

Why?

No, seriously, why? I see people saying this all the time, but I've never understood how you can make this argument honestly without admitting that there's a component of bigotry involved in it. It's a statement of emotion, not logic or reason -- and the emotion is based on prejudice.

152 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:57:56pm

re: #150 webevintage

I think I read somewhere that the gals at FOX dress the way FOX wants them to dress sexy and no pants.

Ohh I am sure that's the case. Murdoch has always been a bit of a sleeze merchant.

But no one is forcing so many other GOP wannabe "hotties" to dress that way.

153 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:02:43pm

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I am sure that's the case. Murdoch has always been a bit of a sleeze merchant.

But no one is forcing so many other GOP wannabe "hotties" to dress that way.

Except for the spike heels, isn't Palin's attire rather modest?

154 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:05:52pm

re: #144 publicityStunted

Or reactivate their accounts, but as soon as they log in, they get automatically redirected to a Google image search for fournier gangrene >:D (link NSFW or stomachs!!)

Heh, I ran across that particularly nasty disease while reading Wikipedia's List of unusual deaths some time back, so I knew better than to click on your link. Some believe that the disease contributed to King Herod's death. Even if it didn't, he certainly suffered a miserable & excruciating demise. *shudder*

155 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:05:55pm

OT: Dick Armey with a Tea Party nod to the religious right and confirming that Toomey was the start point for the Tea Party. IT's been the old religious right rage machine all along.

156 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:08:24pm

re: #155 Thanos

OT: Dick Armey with a Tea Party nod to the religious right and confirming that Toomey was the start point for the Tea Party. IT's been the old religious right rage machine all along.

Typical of the religious right. He can't distinguish between conception and birth.

157 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:10:35pm

re: #154 CuriousLurker

Rofl...

162 BC: Eleazar Maccabeus was crushed to death at the Battle of Beth-zechariah by a war elephant that he believed to be carrying Seleucid King Antiochus V; charging into battle, Eleazar rushed underneath the elephant and thrust a spear into its belly, whereupon it fell dead on top of him
158 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:19:06pm

re: #151 Charles

Why?

No, seriously, why? I see people saying this all the time, but I've never understood how you can make this argument honestly without admitting that there's a component of bigotry involved in it. It's a statement of emotion, not logic or reason -- and the emotion is based on prejudice.

I don't mean to seem obtuse, but to which argument do you refer?

159 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:21:38pm

re: #158 foobear2

I don't mean to seem obtuse, but to which argument do you refer?

It's right there in the quote. You don't like the idea of a mosque in that location.

Why?

160 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:25:46pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

Yeah, the guy's last thought had to be something along the lines of, "Oh sh..."

161 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:28:55pm

Stalkers are in full roar over at the Guardian now. I'm "jealous" of Geller's traffic, according to them, and I'm just as bad as her. Which is a funny argument to make, at the same time as you're praising her as a heroine.

The false claim that I called Rachel Corrie "St. Pancake" shows up, the false claim that I've deleted all my anti-Islam posts shows up ... it's pretty much a stalkerfest now.

162 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:51:23pm

re: #161 Charles

The harpy is in a snit over at her place as well (no Google cache condom at this time

"Wait, it gets better. Johnson takes credit for ...... me. Yes, indeedy. Because I was once a commenter on his blog when he was still sane, this deeply troubled narcissist subheads the article this way:

"My site gave Geller her 'break' on the web."

I kid you not. All of the bloggers out there know how successful you become if you commented at LGF, or any other blog, for that matter. What is galling is how he now takes credit for my blog's success after he did everything he could to destroy it in November 2007 because I would not cave to his libel of an important counter-jihad conference in Europe (complete with your run of the mill euro-fascist scum)"

The gnome is pissed off as well.

"This is what this man has allowed himself to become: after betraying all his principles and alliances, he is despised by the Right and held in contempt by the Left, while he himself stands for nothing at all except the destruction of those principled individuals alongside whom he used to fight."

What is that saying? When you are taking flak, you know you are over your target? Bombs away Charles, Bombs away.

163 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 1:53:26pm

re: #162 Bubblehead II

(By the way, I didn't write either the title or the subheading.)

164 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:02:01pm

re: #163 Charles

(By the way, I didn't write either the title or the subheading.)

But as you point out, the title is quite apt. AS and JW do promote hate and fear mongering.

165 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:02:02pm

re: #162 Bubblehead II

"This is what this man has allowed himself to become: after betraying all his principles and alliances, he is despised by the Right and held in contempt by the Left, while he himself stands for nothing at all except the destruction of those principled individuals alongside whom he used to fight."

Um, yeah, right. *eyeroll*

166 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:05:51pm

re: #162 Bubblehead II

I'm starting to get the feeling Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer don't like me. Just a hunch.

167 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:19:29pm

re: #166 Charles

I'm starting to get the feeling Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer don't like me. Just a hunch.

Ya' think? I wonder though—if you've been abandoned & reviled by everyone who matters, then shouldn't you be so insignificant as to not even register on their radar? I mean why even give you the time of day?

Seeing as how they spend their days sliming other people, it's kind of amusing to watch them howl in outrage when someone says something negative about them

168 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:20:48pm

re: #166 Charles

I'm starting to get the feeling Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer don't like me. Just a hunch.

Gee, I wonder why?

169 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:26:34pm

re: #168 Bubblehead II

Gee, I wonder why?

Nice link.

If you start attacking friends and ignoring the issue, the issue’s not going to go away. But the friends will.
170 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:35:27pm

re: #169 wrenchwench

Going back through that thread now. When the balloon went up I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't think it would get nasty as it has.

They were wrong then, and they are still wrong now.

171 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:42:39pm

re: #170 Bubblehead II

Going back through that thread now. When the balloon went up I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't think it would get nasty as it has.

They were wrong then, and they are still wrong now.

Geller and Spencer keep becoming more wrong. I think their reaction today is an indication that they are losing. Spencer really needs a good debunking. When he falls, Geller will too, because she's organized her political gangs around his "scholarship".

172 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:45:02pm

re: #159 Charles

It's right there in the quote. You don't like the idea of a mosque in that location.

Why?

Okay, I thought that was what you meant, but I wasn't completely sure.

Any argument of propriety is, almost by definition, based upon a subjective judgment and is grounded in emotion. However, not all emotions are rooted in prejudice.

Islam was not incidental to the 9/11 attacks. The religion of the men who carried out the attacks was not a miscellaneous attribute like shoe size, the color of their eyes, or the length of their hair. On the contrary, the terrorists' interpretation of Islam was a driving force behind their actions.

For this reason, I associate 9/11 with Islam, with a full understanding that this association involves a radical interpretation of the religion.

I simply do not feel it is appropriate to build a facility dedicated to the celebration of a religion that was, however wrongly, used to justify the most horrific attack in our nation's history, in a place that was itself damaged in that attack.

My feeling is rooted in emotion, but that doesn't make it bigotry. The U.S. Cavalry has a long and distinguished history, replete with stunning examples of heroism and selfless sacrifice. That said, it would not be appropriate to build a 7th Cavalry museum two blocks from Wounded Knee, nor would it be appropriate to label someone who objected to such a museum as a bigot.

For me, Feisal Rauf's role in the Park51 project only increases my concern. He's been wishy-washy at best when it comes to denouncing Hamas terror, and he has sounded hauntingly similar to Jeremiah Wright or Ward Churchill by implying that we somehow brought 9/11 upon ourselves.

On the other hand, while I do associate 9/11 with Islam, I do not associate Islam with 9/11. Now, this may seem like a distinction without a difference, but I just don't see it that way.

I was raised in East St. Louis, Illinois, in a very diverse neighborhood. I've lived in the city as well as the suburbs, and have been fortunate to be able to have called a wide variety of people my friend.

I do not hate Islam, or Muslims. I wouldn't think of objecting to a mosque in my town, in my neighborhood, or down the street from my house.

However, I believe that some events imbue a location with a certain sanctity.

I don't think it is appropriate to build a mosque in the parking lot on the west side of the Pentagon.

I don't think it is appropriate to build a mosque next to the field in Shanksville where Flight 93 crashed.

I don't think it is appropriate for people who consider the U.S. to be an accessory to the 9/11 attacks to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero.

It is unreasonable to conclude that this objection somehow makes me a bigot.

173 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:48:19pm

re: #172 foobear2

Would 3 blocks be far enough?

174 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:53:06pm

re: #172 foobear2

Islam was not incidental to the 9/11 attacks. The religion of the men who carried out the attacks was not a miscellaneous attribute like shoe size, the color of their eyes, or the length of their hair. On the contrary, the terrorists' interpretation of Islam was a driving force behind their actions.

For this reason, I associate 9/11 with Islam, with a full understanding that this association involves a radical interpretation of the religion.

I'll tell you what I think.

Men were not incidental to the 9/11 attacks. The men who carried out the attacks were not a miscellaneous attribute like shoe size, the color of onesr eyes, or the length of ones hair. On the contrary, the mens' interpretation was a driving force behind their actions.

For this reason, I associate 9/11 with men, with a full understanding that this association involves radicals.

I'll save you from the rest of what I think suffice to say, your very emotional.

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:55:43pm

re: #162 Bubblehead II

Oh noes, despised by the right! Whatever shall we do? :D

176 jaunte  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 2:59:18pm

re: #172 foobear2

Conservative media invent controversy over Rauf's 9-11 comments

The conservative media have repeatedly attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf for his remark that "the United States' policies were an accessory" to the 9-11 attacks. However, Rauf's comments are not outside the mainstream; indeed, the former chairman and vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission have stated that U.S. "actions have contributed" to "a rising tide of radicalization and rage in the Muslim world."
177 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:00:03pm

re: #172 foobear2

Do you think the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, with its Crusader associations, should be adjacent to Har Habayit?

178 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:19:44pm

re: #173 Charles

Would 3 blocks be far enough?

Three or four crosstown blocks away, on the site of a building that hadn't been damaged during the 9/11 attack? Yes, that would be far enough.

179 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:22:26pm

re: #178 foobear2

Three or four crosstown blocks away, on the site of a building that hadn't been damaged during the 9/11 attack? Yes, that would be far enough.

So what if they put it next door in a building that wasn't damaged? Is it the damage that makes it special? In that case, how about a building that wasn't damaged, but only one block from Ground Zero? Would that be OK?

Strip clubs are OK on this "sacred ground," though?

180 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:24:10pm

re: #172 foobear2


Did you really just try and compare a religion that is over 1000 years old that spans the earth with multiple differing sects to a single American military unit from the 19th century?

181 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:28:02pm

re: #174 ozbloke

For this reason, I associate 9/11 with Islam, with a full understanding that this association involves a radical interpretation of the religion.

I'll tell you what I think.

Men were not incidental to the 9/11 attacks. The men who carried out the attacks were not a miscellaneous attribute like shoe size, the color of onesr eyes, or the length of ones hair. On the contrary, the mens' interpretation was a driving force behind their actions.

For this reason, I associate 9/11 with men, with a full understanding that this association involves radicals.

I'll save you from the rest of what I think suffice to say, your very emotional.

Actually, the gender of the 9/11 attackers played, unlike their religion, little or no role in their motivation for the attacks. But, of course, you already knew that.

182 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:35:00pm

re: #180 SpaceJesus

Did you really just try and compare a religion that is over 1000 years old that spans the earth with multiple differing sects to a single American military unit from the 19th century?

You do have a point; I stand corrected. Instead, I should have noted that it would not be appropriate to build a U.S. Cavalry museum (not specific to the 7th) next to Wounded Knee.

183 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:50:16pm

re: #179 Charles

So what if they put it next door in a building that wasn't damaged? Is it the damage that makes it special? In that case, how about a building that wasn't damaged, but only one block from Ground Zero? Would that be OK?

Strip clubs are OK on this "sacred ground," though?

The incremental question is always a tough one, isn't it? When do you have a fever? Three degrees above normal? How about 2.9 degrees? 3.1?

For me, in this case it's a combination of proximity, environment, and damage. Four crosstown blocks would be the better part of a mile away in a crowded city. I would not object to siting Park51 there. On the other hand, if the only building within a mile of the Shanksville crash site were to be a newly built mosque, I would probably object to that as well. If it were a few miles away, in Shanksville proper, I wouldn't object.

I can certainly understand the temptation to deride my characterization of "sanctity", but I don't see a strip club as violative, in and of itself. However, I would not be in favor of a new strip club opening next to Ground Zero either.

I should point out that I would also object to the notion of closing an existing mosque in close proximity to Ground Zero. From that perspective I would agree with the "International Affairs Review" writer vis the Carmelite convent near Auschwitz.

184 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:55:15pm

re: #182 foobear2

You do have a point; I stand corrected. Instead, I should have noted that it would not be appropriate to build a U.S. Cavalry museum (not specific to the 7th) next to Wounded Knee.


The two situations are still completely and fundamentally different from each other.

185 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:58:57pm

re: #177 Decatur Deb

Do you think the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, with its Crusader associations, should be adjacent to Har Habayit?

A fair point. While the Crusades were, at least in part, a response to the Muslim conquest of the Holy Land, the Crusaders did not pay any particular respect to the Jews. In that way, the proximity of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to the Temple Mount could well be viewed as giving offense. At the same time, Jerusalem is replete with places sacred to Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

I'm not aware of any particular justification for the siting of Park51, aside from the completely valid claim that the organizers have the legal right to build there.

186 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:59:20pm

re: #183 foobear2

So we're establishing the size of the Muslim-free zone you think should be enforced. Four blocks away is OK.

But we still haven't gotten to your explanation for WHY this is necessary. Is it really impossible for you to distinguish between Sufi Islam -- the type practiced by Imam Rauf -- and the Wahhabi extremism of the 9/11 hijackers? How can you possibly make an honest argument that equating every Muslim with Al Qaeda murderers is not, at its heart, pure prejudice?

What happens when the new World Trade Center is built, and Muslims -- who will undoubtedly be working in the buildings, as they were on 9/11 -- need a place to perform their daily prayers? Are we going to have another gigantic outrage then?

187 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 3:59:22pm

re: #184 SpaceJesus

The two situations are still completely and fundamentally different from each other.

How so?

188 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:02:22pm

re: #172 foobear2

I do not hate Islam, or Muslims am not a bigot. I wouldn't think of objecting to a mosque in my town, in my neighborhood, or down the street from my house. Just as long as it wasn't being built next to sacred grounds.

*cough* *cough*

italics mine (BH II)

189 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:03:05pm

re: #185 foobear2

A fair point. While the Crusades were, at least in part, a response to the Muslim conquest of the Holy Land, the Crusaders did not pay any particular respect to the Jews.

That's an understatement.

You mean they slaughtered them.

190 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:03:36pm

re: #172 foobear2

I don't think it is appropriate to build a mosque in the parking lot on the west side of the Pentagon.

Did you know there's a Muslim prayer space inside the Pentagon?

191 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:08:20pm

re: #181 foobear2

Actually, the gender of the 9/11 attackers played, unlike their religion, little or no role in their motivation for the attacks. But, of course, you already knew that.

No I consider the motivation to be in the hearts and minds of men.

What does it say about your government who have a 'prayer room' in the pentagon?

192 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:16:02pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

Did you know there's a Muslim prayer space inside the Pentagon?

Sorry for treading on your toes there...
I wrote it before I got to your comment.

Did you ever notice how some people like to trample the freedoms of others, when they have their emotions pricked?

Democracy is great when you are in the majority.
Otherwise, not so much...

193 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:26:58pm

re: #192 ozbloke

Sorry for treading on your toes there...
I wrote it before I got to your comment.

Did you ever notice how some people like to trample the freedoms of others, when they have their emotions pricked?

Democracy is great when you are in the majority.
Otherwise, not so much...

Which is why both sides go ballistic when the 3rd Estate (Judiciary) tells either or both of them they are wrong. While imperfect, it's still the best thing going.

194 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:34:25pm

re: #186 Charles

So we're establishing the size of the Muslim-free zone you think should be enforced. Four blocks away is OK.

But we still haven't gotten to your explanation for WHY this is necessary. Is it really impossible for you to distinguish between Sufi Islam -- the type practiced by Imam Rauf -- and the Wahhabi extremism of the 9/11 hijackers? How can you possibly make an honest argument that equating every Muslim with Al Qaeda murderers is not, at its heart, pure prejudice?

What happens when the new World Trade Center is built, and Muslims -- who will undoubtedly be working in the buildings, as they were on 9/11 -- need a place to perform their daily prayers? Are we going to have another gigantic outrage then?

Again, I can certainly understand the temptation to twist my attempt at an honest discussion into implications that I am a bigot by imputing to me phrases like "Muslim-free zone", but that's not particularly fair. I have said nothing that could be construed as excluding Muslims from the area around Ground Zero. I'm certainly not an Islamic scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Muslims do not have to be in a mosque to pray. Daily prayers are not ostentatious, and can be done pretty much anywhere. If a Muslim was working on the new World Trade Center when it was time to pray, I would have no objection at all to him or her stopping to pray.

I do not propose "enforcing" anything, nor have I said that the project cannot be built. I have said from the beginning that I acknowledge Rauf's right to build Park51. Thus, your statement "But we still haven't gotten to your explanation for WHY this is necessary" seems to be another attempt to put words in my mouth. I believe that Rauf has the legal right to build an Islamic center, including a mosque, at the current Park51 site. However, I don't believe that he should build it there.

I have clearly articulated the reasons behind my belief, and have just as clearly stated that I would not prevent the project from going forward. You may not agree with my reasons, but that doesn't make them evidence of bigotry, and I object to them being characterized as such.

It's really easy to dismiss positions with which we don't agree in this way. "Don't agree with the war in Iraq? Then you must be unpatriotic." "Don't agree with Obama's health care reform? Then you must be a racist." There's far too much of this sort of name-calling across the entire idealogical spectrum, and that's too bad.

195 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:36:19pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

Did you know there's a Muslim prayer space inside the Pentagon?

That's fine.

196 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:36:35pm

re: #194 foobear2

I'm certainly not an Islamic scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Muslims do not have to be in a mosque to pray.

Good point. In fact, can you define what a mosque is, and why this community center would be one?

197 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:37:42pm

re: #195 foobear2

That's fine.

But it was damaged on 9-11 by Muslims. Why is it fine there but not a couple blocks away from the other place that was hit?

198 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:43:51pm

re: #191 ozbloke

No I consider the motivation to be in the hearts and minds of men.

What does it say about your government who have a 'prayer room' in the pentagon?

re: #196 Obdicut

Good point. In fact, can you define what a mosque is, and why this community center would be one?

I don't think Park51 is planned as a mosque in its entirety. However, it is my understanding that a mosque is to be included as part of the center.

199 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:44:56pm

re: #193 Bubblehead II

Which is why both sides go ballistic when the 3rd Estate (Judiciary) tells either or both of them they are wrong. While imperfect, it's still the best thing going.

Checks pockets for a sarc tag.
I found one, here you go.

/Democracy is great when you are in the majority. Otherwise, not so much...

200 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:45:02pm

re: #198 foobear2


I don't think Park51 is planned as a mosque in its entirety. However, it is my understanding that a mosque is to be included as part of the center.

You didn't answer the question.

What defines what a 'mosque' is?

201 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:46:27pm

re: #199 ozbloke

Checks pockets for a sarc tag.
I found one, here you go.

/Democracy is great when you are in the majority. Otherwise, not so much...

LOL!

202 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:47:51pm

re: #194 foobear2

I don't believe that he should build it there.

That's right, you've said that over and over, and I've been asking these questions to see if you can make an argument for this position that is not based on emotional prejudice, and does not implicitly equate all Muslims with the 9/11 hijackers.

So far, you haven't come close to doing that. You simply assert, again, that you're opposed to building it there, without dealing with the underlying question of WHY you are opposed to it.

And by the way, I know that you were banned previously from posting at LGF, in case you think you're fooling anyone.

203 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:47:53pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

But it was damaged on 9-11 by Muslims. Why is it fine there but not a couple blocks away from the other place that was hit?

Are you referring to the non-denominational memorial chapel at the Pentagon? That's pretty much open to anyone.

Will the Park51 prayer space be holding Jewish services on Friday, or Mass on Sunday? Will a woman be welcome to pray anywhere in the Park51 worship space?

204 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 4:50:53pm

re: #202 Charles

This ought to be good. What was its previous nic, if I may ask?

205 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:07:11pm

re: #204 Bubblehead II

This ought to be good. What was its previous nic, if I may ask?

There were several.

206 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:09:27pm

BTW Charles. I also understand that the assertion has been made that the ashes from both the towers as well as those who died in them have made the buildings they have touched sacred ground as well. If true, well the radius could be miles. Can our troll explain? After all, ANYTHING that was/is ground zero and connected to 9/11 is sacred?

/Strip Clubs, You have got to love them....... Especially if you are a WASP

207 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:11:51pm

re: #202 Charles

And by the way, I know that you were banned previously from posting at LGF, in case you think you're fooling anyone.

Is that really fair? I opened an LGF account under the username "foobear" several years ago, but was pretty much a lurker who didn't log in or try to post. When I did finally log in to join a discussion, it was my understanding that my account was locked because of unexpected activity after a long period of inactivity. Subsequent to that, I tried re-registering a couple of times, only to have those attempts locked as well. My current account stayed open only after I posted a direct appeal to you pleading my case.

Now, it appears you're tossing in the "in case you think your fooling anyone" comment to paint me as one of the trolls who regularly register a new account, post inflammatory comments, and get banned again. That's not true, and you know it.

As for my position on Park51, continuing to characterize my opposition as rooted in prejudice does not make it so. There are millions of good Sikhs, but a person could in good faith object to a Sikh community center being built next to the garden where Indira Gandhi was assassinated.

I guess that's about all for me this evening.

208 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:13:29pm

re: #205 Charles

There were several.

Figures. Any clues as to who? Like the game Clue, Was it Col. Mustard in the kitchen with the lead pipe? :-)

209 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:20:01pm

re: #208 Bubblehead II

Figures. Any clues as to who? Like the game Clue, Was it Col. Mustard in the kitchen with the lead pipe? :-)

My first account was "foobear'. I never was able to post from that account.

A few months ago, I tried re-registering unsuccessfully several times over the course of a day as "foo2", "teh_foo", and finally managed to get a plea for keeping an account as "foobear2".

I'm pretty sure I haven't called anyone any names or otherwise abused the privilege. Before today, my last post was an appreciation of Charles' post on the iPhone microscope. I did finally receive the parts last month, but haven't yet had a chance to try to assemble it.

That said, if I'm going to be labeled as a troll when I do try to contribute to a discussion, there's really no point.

210 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:24:35pm

re: #207 foobear2

And you still haven't even tried to make a coherent argument.

This is why I say I haven't seen a single logical argument against the Cordoba House that isn't ultimately (after you get past all the rationalizations) based on prejudice.

211 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:33:46pm

re: #209 foobear2

That said, if I'm going to be labeled as a troll when I do try to contribute to a discussion, there's really no point.

Next time try "boohoobear".

I'm sure you've heard it's a tough room here?

212 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:42:12pm

re: #209 foobear2

In other words, you violated Charles T.O.S as well as the Community Standards. Cry me a river, rock. A troll has more brains than you. You have no valid points to make. You only wish to continue to spread your islamo-fascist hate mongering rhetoric. Not going to work here tyro.

213 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:46:43pm

re: #212 Bubblehead II

In other words, you violated Charles T.O.S as well as the Community Standards. Cry me a river, rock. A troll has more brains than you. You have no valid points to make. You only wish to continue to spread your islamo-fascist hate mongering rhetoric. Not going to work here tyro.

Bad choice of words there. My bad. Charles, your call.

214 foobear2  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 5:57:20pm

re: #212 Bubblehead II

In other words, you violated Charles T.O.S as well as the Community Standards. Cry me a river, rock. A troll has more brains than you. You have no valid points to make. You only wish to continue to spread your islamo-fascist hate mongering rhetoric. Not going to work here tyro.

Wow. Hate mongering rhetoric? Do you actually believe that, or are you trying unsuccessfully to parrot things you've read elsewhere?

Please point out a single quote from me which you could even remotely characterize as hate mongering.

215 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:05:04pm

re: #214 foobear2

Any quote where you draw a connection between the Muslim religion as followed by normal, peaceful Muslims with the zealots who committed 9/11.

Al-Queda would love to blow up a Sufi mosque and community center. There's nothing more appropriate near the site of 9/11.

216 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:06:05pm

re: #214 foobear2

Oh, and you still haven't managed to define what a mosque is, yet.

217 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:52:23pm
(Ironically, this is an opinion she shares with the leaders of al-Qaida, who insist that all Muslims must follow their extreme interpretation of Islam.)

I don't think there is anything ironic about it. It is quite apparent and also logical.

218 Bourdain's Breakfast  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 6:55:12pm

The Guardian? Where have I been.

219 Mich-again  Thu, Oct 14, 2010 7:06:18pm

Excellent work Charles. Clear, concise, and spot on. I rememeber her from these threads. She was whack even back then, but so were a lot of the regulars. She definitely had a bad case of LOOK AT ME! syndrome. The main objective was to feed her ego and pimp her blog.

220 Jon a brit in Euroland  Fri, Oct 15, 2010 2:09:51am

I really would like to thank you Charles, and Foobear 2 for the very interesting discussion I have just read.

I have previously posted that I was uncomfortable with what I personally felt were excessively connotative comments on Ms Geller, which seem to have been moderated better now.

This argument is important, and it is also important that such people as FooBear 2 get to express their views, and get to be treated with courtesy, even when other disagree with them.

As I read it on other sites there are more and more Muslim speaking out against the high-jacking of their culture by extremists, and as someone who has worked in 99% Muslim countries I really think the the empowerment of the moderates is central and entirely critical to building a civilized world free of hate speech on any of the many sides to this question.

Ar Tariq Ramadan admitted on a recent interview there is an issue of authority in the Muslim culture, a problem which is entirely a Muslim problem, but which we can, from outside contribute to creating the right atmospherics for a solution by a sympathetic but no-nonsense approach.

We cannot take a disrespectful "parental stance, but at the same time anything less than standing firm on our requirements for civilized behaviour strengthens the extremists and weakens the moderates.

Again: a good discussion.

221 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 15, 2010 2:58:19am

re: #220 Jon a brit in Euroland

Why engage with a fantasy? Why ignore that Foobear2 never actually made an argument, beyond one of collective guilt for all Muslims?

Do you think you're fooling anyone?

222 Dom  Fri, Oct 15, 2010 2:18:40pm

Heh, I found this on CiF independently while I was doing some digging. Kudos @Charles, breaking new ground!


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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
1 week, 5 days ago
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Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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North Mississippi Allstars - ‘Drunk Outdoors’ [Audio Only]From the album 'Up and Rolling,' available October 4, 2019: geni.us
Thanos
2 weeks, 1 day ago
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