Jack Black: The Misinformant
Humor • Views: 6,183
Jack Black is the GOP’s new youth outreach coordinator, and he’s the only man who can save Americans from having beans put up their noses.
(Hat tip: Killgore Trout.)
600 comments
1 |
Capitalist Tool Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:16:50pm |
That's fucking hilarious.
How do you keep findin' all this good stuff?
| 2 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:18:40pm |
Clearly he this man needs to do some kind of cordinated work with Stephen Colbert....
| 4 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:26:22pm |
Charles, you might want to have a talk with Google. I'm getting a 'Bachmann for Congress' ad.
| 6 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:27:46pm |
re: #4 Dark_Falcon
Charles, you might want to have a talk with Google. I'm getting a 'Bachmann for Congress' ad.
I keep getting Palin ads.
| 7 |
Lidane Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:29:38pm |
I always wondered how Fox News worked. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. ;)
| 9 |
Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:30:26pm |
re: #4 Dark_Falcon
Charles, you might want to have a talk with Google. I'm getting a 'Bachmann for Congress' ad.
| 10 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:30:36pm |
Bethany's analysis of "enough" actually makes more sense than Beck's take on Mussolini's chariot. At least "gh" is actually there, while Obama and the fascist youth in Rockefeller Center were essentially pulled out of Beck's ass.
| 11 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:35:23pm |
re: #6 NJDhockeyfan
I keep getting Palin ads.
I don't get ads. Got me one of them fancy subscripshuns. That's Latin for "ads stay under the internet pictures" : sub (under) scripsh (onomatopoeic for the sound the webpage makes when you tear it away to reveal the ad) un (reversed, not there - like the ad is gone, man)
| 12 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:36:24pm |
Was I the only person utterly distracted by how cute America Ferrera was?
| 13 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:37:21pm |
re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist
The Fox scouts are probably on the phone with her agents now.
| 14 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:38:06pm |
re: #11 imp_62
I don't get ads. Got me one of them fancy subscripshuns. That's Latin for "ads stay under the internet pictures" : sub (under) scripsh (onomatopoeic for the sound the webpage makes when you tear it away to reveal the ad) un (reversed, not there - like the ad is gone, man)
Money is tight in NJD's household. I haven't worked in 4 months and I have to wait 2 more months. Clicking away the Palin ads isn't very hard.
| 15 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:39:34pm |
| 16 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:39:37pm |
re: #11 imp_62
I don't get ads. Got me one of them fancy subscripshuns. That's Latin for "ads stay under the internet pictures" : sub (under) scripsh (onomatopoeic for the sound the webpage makes when you tear it away to reveal the ad) un (reversed, not there - like the ad is gone, man)
SMACK!
| 17 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:40:59pm |
re: #14 NJDhockeyfan
Money is tight in NJD's household. I haven't worked in 4 months and I have to wait 2 more months. Clicking away the Palin ads isn't very hard.
*pssst* Hey, Buddy - yes you! I didn't see ads before I paid, either! Adthwart, plus Adblock, plus NoScript,....
| 18 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:42:21pm |
I've got to weigh in and say that I, too, think Reid blew it. Barring some unforeseen screw-up (always possible for a crazy person) Angle has it in the bag.
| 19 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:28pm |
re: #18 Shiplord Kirel
I think I just read your tag line for the first time. Very good.
| 20 |
Interesting Times Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:28pm |
LVQ: still here? New sleeper denier troll trying to baffle with BS on your latest page
| 21 |
freetoken Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:43:41pm |
re: #18 Shiplord Kirel
I do not believe one debate will make that big of a difference in such a polarized climate.
Reid was awkward, but Angle did act like she was drugged.
| 22 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:44:36pm |
And then there's the "Under Barack Obama" MadTV sketch, but I think I will not link that one...
| 23 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:45:52pm |
re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist
Was I the only person utterly distracted by how cute America Ferrera was?
Indeed. But I kept thinking. This must have been Ann Coulter when she was a youngin.
| 24 |
Stanghazi Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:48:13pm |
re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist
Was I the only person utterly distracted by how cute America Ferrera was?
HELL NO
| 25 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:48:40pm |
re: #23 marjoriemoon
Indeed. But I kept thinking. This must have been Ann Coulter when she was a youngin.
I am pretty sure that Ann Coulter sprang fully formed from the shattered head of Rush Limbaugh.
| 26 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:50:49pm |
re: #14 NJDhockeyfan
Money is tight in NJD's household. I haven't worked in 4 months and I have to wait 2 more months. Clicking away the Palin ads isn't very hard.
I am trying to save money so I can go to New York for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah in December. Airline tickets are crazy expensive. We are planning to rent a car and drive there.
And now this electrical problem.
Buy stuff at the Zionist Mall so that I can pay to have the electric fixed, go to my grandson's Bar Mitzvah and have enough left over for an LGF subscription.
We all help each other, right?
| 27 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 8:54:16pm |
re: #26 Alouette
I am trying to save money so I can go to New York for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah in December. Airline tickets are crazy expensive. We are planning to rent a car and drive there.
And now this electrical problem.
Buy stuff at the Zionist Mall so that I can pay to have the electric fixed, go to my grandson's Bar Mitzvah and have enough left over for an LGF subscription.
We all help each other, right?
I need a challah knife. Will select one tomorrow morning - thanks for reminding me.
| 29 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:00:28pm |
re: #28 Stanley Sea
Mayor Bloomberg on Project Runway tonight :)
I know LOL For like 5 seconds. Still rocked.
| 32 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:01:59pm |
One of them tried to register a sock puppet with the name '4b612c'.
When I blocked him immediately, he tried to register twice more:
gophukyourself
whatanahole666
| 33 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:02:38pm |
Charles just clubbed a 6 year old troll sock. I still have time to grill it and it will be served in 20 minutes.
| 34 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:02:54pm |
re: #32 Charles
One of them tried to register a sock puppet with the name '4b612c'.
When I blocked him immediately, he tried to register twice more:
gophukyourself
whatanahole666
Jacked up on two successive nights of debates.
| 35 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:03:04pm |
re: #27 imp_62
I need a challah knife. Will select one tomorrow morning - thanks for reminding me.
Here is our selection of challah knives.
We also have sterling silver as well.
| 37 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:03:29pm |
re: #32 Charles
lol sending sekrit messages are they?
| 38 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:03:48pm |
re: #30 Charles
They don't seem to be persuading anyone at Comment is Free. Rather the opposite.
| 39 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:04:17pm |
re: #31 NJDhockeyfan
What's Project Runway?
It's a very cool, reality style show about clothing designers. Totally not my usual watching, but I'm completely hooked.
| 40 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:04:39pm |
re: #35 Alouette
I saw a Spode one when I looked a few minutes ago; the fused glass is nice, too.
| 41 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:07:51pm |
re: #35 Alouette
Here is our selection of challah knives.
We also have sterling silver as well.
I get paid over the weekend. Maybe this can be my excuse for a (small) indulgence. Bli neder, but if I get an Ahava goodie it'll tick off Code Pink as well--a double mitzvah.
| 42 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:09:27pm |
re: #40 imp_62
I saw a Spode one when I looked a few minutes ago; the fused glass is nice, too.
The Spode knife can be found on the Tableware page. It goes with the matching Challah platter.
Personally, I have the Emanual Oriental Shabbat challah board with the matching knife. It's very beautiful.
| 43 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:09:29pm |
re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist
I get paid over the weekend. Maybe this can be my excuse for a (small) indulgence. Bli neder, but if I get an Ahava goodie it'll tick off Code Pink as well--a double mitzvah.
If I just click through the Zionist Mall site, it works so the fee automatically goes to you?
| 44 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:10:32pm |
re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist
I get paid over the weekend. Maybe this can be my excuse for a (small) indulgence. Bli neder, but if I get an Ahava goodie it'll tick off Code Pink as well--a double mitzvah.
Act fast, my partner vendor Judaicawebstore is having a 50% off sale on Ahava products.
| 45 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:11:24pm |
re: #42 Alouette
The Spode knife can be found on the Tableware page. It goes with the matching Challah platter.
Personally, I have the Emanual Oriental Shabbat challah board with the matching knife. It's very beautiful.
For reasons of sentimental attachment I always use an olivewood board given to me by my sister. But she was too cheap to buy me a challah knife to go along with it and mine broke some time ago; I never bothered replacing it. But now there is a reason...
| 46 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:11:50pm |
re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist
If I just click through the Zionist Mall site, it works so the fee automatically goes to you?
The embedded code tells the vendor that the transaction is coming from an affiliate partner so my commission is calculated.
| 47 |
shutdown Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:12:44pm |
re: #44 Alouette
Act fast, my partner vendor Judaicawebstore is having a 50% off sale on Ahava products.
There is a store in the JFK JetBlue Terminal which sells Ahava products; I like to buy stuff there to support their carrying the Israeli products.
| 48 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:13:25pm |
re: #38 jaunte
They don't seem to be persuading anyone at Comment is Free. Rather the opposite.
But they're still ranting away like lunatics. I see the fanatic creationist Kirly has showed up now.
It's always the same freaks.
| 49 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:15:00pm |
I feel the Ambien kicking in now. See you tomorrow honcos. I have to get up early to call the electrician.
So, buy a bunch of stuff so I can check my account with my various vendor partners and see what was bought.
| 50 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:16:04pm |
re: #48 Charles
It's probably good that Geller and fans are getting a larger audience for their craziness (so they can be identified as loons) before they learn how to keep it damped down, and do more subtle damage.
| 51 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:22:26pm |
re: #48 Charles
But they're still ranting away like lunatics. I see the fanatic creationist Kirly has showed up now.
It's always the same freaks.
I just saw that. The woman is deranged. I'd say at least 2/3rds of her banned list are socks or names that no one has heard of. There's also lots of multiples unless she's bothered to clean it up.
| 52 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:22:42pm |
re: #48 Charles
But they're still ranting away like lunatics. I see the fanatic creationist Kirly has showed up now.
It's always the same freaks.
Like moths to a flame. Evolution clearly left him behind, with his underdeveloped brain.
| 53 |
Capitalist Tool Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:22:55pm |
re: #50 jaunte
It's probably good that Geller and fans are getting a larger audience for their craziness (so they can be identified as loons) before they learn how to keep it damped down, and do more subtle damage.
I finally got curious enough about Geller a month or so ago to actually watch her in action on some Fox show. To fox's credit, they had some equally looneytoons whack from the New Black Panthers as an offset.
The show was really a treat. I need comic relief every now and then.
Most of the people like Geller who are mentioned in these threads remain unknown to me. I don't swing my arc in any domain where they exist, but curiosity got the best of me that. night.
| 54 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:23:12pm |
re: #38 jaunte
They don't seem to be persuading anyone at Comment is Free. Rather the opposite.
They're up to 44 deleted comments and counting and counting.
| 55 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:24:50pm |
re: #53 Capitalist Tool
I finally got curious enough about Geller a month or so ago to actually watch her in action on some Fox show. To fox's credit, they had some equally looneytoons whack from the New Black Panthers as an offset.
The show was really a treat. I need comic relief every now and then.
Most of the people like Geller who are mentioned in these threads remain unknown to me. I don't swing my arc in any domain where they exist, but curiosity got the best of me that. night.
Fox put that guy on to make her look less like a lunatic. They had an agenda.
Geller's name isn't on the back burner anymore. The talk about her on NPR, now too. I'm fine with it. I think 60 Minutes did a fine job letting everyone see who she is.
| 56 |
Gus Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:25:44pm |
Another moron troll registers.
Karma: 0
Registered since: Oct 14, 2010 at 9:24 pmNo. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0
Recent comments
| 58 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:26:55pm |
re: #54 goddamnedfrank
They're up to 44 deleted comments and counting and counting.
I'd bet the final number of deleted at 73. Does that sound right to you?
| 59 |
Capitalist Tool Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:27:38pm |
re: #56 Gus 802
Another moron troll registers.
well, i'd ask how you know they are a moron troll, but then there IS the name...
| 61 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:28:34pm |
| 62 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:29:17pm |
They won't have the guts to post. They're just the "cut and paste" boys.
| 63 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:29:29pm |
| 66 |
Capitalist Tool Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:30:04pm |
re: #55 marjoriemoon
Fox put that guy on to make her look less like a lunatic. They had an agenda.
Geller's name isn't on the back burner anymore. The talk about her on NPR, now too. I'm fine with it. I think 60 Minutes did a fine job letting everyone see who she is.
Aye, there's the rub.
On the one hand, someone needs to shine a light on 'em, but on the other hand, pretty soon, you have a spotlight on 'em.
| 68 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:31:24pm |
re: #67 Gus 802
Another one.
downdingerflouncy
Can we please get someone new to talk to here instead of another troll?
| 69 |
What, me worry? Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:32:03pm |
re: #66 Capitalist Tool
Aye, there's the rub.
On the one hand, someone needs to shine a light on 'em, but on the other hand, pretty soon, you have a spotlight on 'em.
Most of this country will see her for the racist kook she is. While I don't enjoy her shrieking, if it buries her, and I think it ultimately will, then bring it on!
| 70 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:33:00pm |
re: #67 Gus 802
Sounds like the choreographer Dom Deluise played in Blazing Saddles.
| 71 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:33:55pm |
re: #64 Gus 802
They show up in Spy.
I haven't looked at Spy since Charles added it. I forgot about it.
| 72 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:34:16pm |
The nightly Troll Roast is now served. Come and get it!
| 73 |
Gus Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:35:08pm |
re: #71 NJDhockeyfan
I haven't looked at Spy since Charles added it. I forgot about it.
Yeah. New registrations show up now. Well, they have for a while. These are some really odd names and given what Charles mentioned these guys are no doubt troll. Might be one person.
| 74 |
Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:35:22pm |
| 75 |
schnapp Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:35:53pm |
Charles,
Do you reject some of your old views on Islam and Muslims? And have you considered and LGF for Android app? :P
| 77 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:36:06pm |
| 78 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:36:16pm |
Giant mushrooms to greenify downtown LA using sewage
Mushroom-shaped solar evaporators have taken out first place in a competition asking architects, landscape architects, designers, engineers, urban planners, students and environmental professionals to create an innovative urban vision for a several-mile-long development zone on the eastern edge of downtown LA. The Project Umbrella submission features a series of umbrella-like structures designed to clarify black water from city sewage which would then be used to encourage the growth of surrounding trees and plants.
Who says you can't shit umbrellas?
| 79 |
FreedomMoon Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:37:08pm |
I wonder where they managed to find that little girl, she was fantastic.
| 80 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:40:10pm |
Look carefully at your salad next time you visit Moscow...
Earthworm salad served at Kremlin dinner for President Wulff
Russian officials have been left red-faced after a salad containing a live earthworm was served at a dinner in honour of German President Christian Wulff, media reported Thursday.
The incident came to light after a Russian regional governor, evidently finding the matter hilarious, wrote a Twitter entry about the worm and linked to a photo. The governor, Dmitri Zelenin, has been branded an “imbecile” and could now lose his job, The Moscow Times reported.
Zelenin, 47, former head of the giant mining company Norilsk Nickel, has since removed the blog post and photo. In the original post, Zelenin quipped of the worm: “It was a very special way to show the salad was fresh.”
The invertebrate salad was served at a dinner at the Kremlin on Tuesday night in honour of Wulff, who is on a state visit to Russia. He has met with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.
In the photo posted by Zelenin, who is governor of the Tver region in western Russia, a worm is clearly crawling on the edge of the plate. It is not known how Wulff reacted.
| 81 |
Mr Pancakes Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:43:19pm |
re: #80 NJDhockeyfan
Look carefully at your salad next time you visit Moscow...
Earthworm salad served at Kremlin dinner for President Wulff
Andrew Zimmern would have eaten that in a heartbeat.
| 82 |
nines09 Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:49:48pm |
re: #80 NJDhockeyfan
Waiter? "Sir." What is this fly doing in my soup? "The backstroke, sir."
| 83 |
Ben G. Hazi Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:50:01pm |
re: #81 Mr Pancakes
Andrew Zimmern would have eaten that in a heartbeat.
And chased it down with some Klingon blood wine (or some such real-life analogue)...
| 84 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:52:33pm |
re: #80 NJDhockeyfan
Salad worm scandal burrows deeper:
The Kremlin promised Thursday to check the salad production chain !!!
“Preliminary analysis” indicated that Zelenin's photo was not taken in the Kremlin and showed a different plate from those used at Tuesday's dinner, Viktor Khrekov, press secretary for the Office for Presidential Affairs, told Interfax.[Link: www.themoscowtimes.com...]
| 85 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:52:39pm |
Waiter, there's a fly in my soup.
Shhh...Don't tell anyone. We don't have enough for everyone to have one.
| 86 |
Mr Pancakes Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:57:59pm |
re: #85 EmmmieG
Waiter, there's a fly in my soup.
Shhh...Don't tell anyone. We don't have enough for everyone to have one.
Goodnight all.....
Squash that fly.
| 87 |
jaunte Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:05:28pm |
Goodnight all. Be circumspect.
State Department Reiterates European Travel Warnings
The U.S. Department of State is upholding a travel alert placed over Europe earlier this month, said a counterterrorism coordinator on Thursday.According to U.S. counterterrorism coordinator Daniel Benjamin, the Mumbai-style terror plot aimed at several European cities is still in play and enough of a possibility not to rescind the alert.
| 88 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:38:34pm |
re: #57 Gus 802
And another.
jesusYESshariaNO
Smart, they aint!
Seriously, can these stalkers just not move on.
Get a life?
Daddy, AKA Charles is a bit too in their heads, for them to be mentally healthy.
Waves her booony at the stalkers.
| 89 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:48:55pm |
re: #84 jaunte
Salad worm scandal burrows deeper:
The Kremlin promised Thursday to check the salad production chain !!!
Oh come on. These guys are wusses. Queen Elizabeth would have eaten that earthworm and smiled through it.
| 90 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Oct 14, 2010 10:58:19pm |
re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh come on. These guys are wusses. Queen Elizabeth would have eaten that earthworm and smiled through it.
And discretely spit into her handkerchief!
Oh, for the manners of the bygone days!
| 92 |
Summer Seale Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:07:45am |
re: #74 Charles
It's all the same moron.
You'd think they would have better things to do with their time. But I guess that if they did have a life, they wouldn't have time to keep "researching" all their conspiracy theories and rant about them online to the world.
| 93 |
yasharki Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:24:28am |
re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh come on. These guys are wusses. Queen Elizabeth would have eaten that earthworm and smiled through it.
She's got nothing on Yushenko, he ate a dioxin salad while running for president.
| 97 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:16:41am |
For anyone with Itunes:
[Link: itunes.apple.com...]
MIT's Open Courseware Lectures are available for free download.
Wowzers.
| 99 |
researchok Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:32:57am |
re: #97 Obdicut
For anyone with Itunes:
[Link: itunes.apple.com...]
MIT's Open Courseware Lectures are available for free download.
Wowzers.
MINUTES?
| 101 |
researchok Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:34:22am |
| 102 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:35:08am |
re: #101 researchok
I must need more coffee; still don't get the 'minutes' part of it. Is there a course called Minutes?
| 103 |
researchok Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:37:24am |
re: #102 Obdicut
I must need more coffee; still don't get the 'minutes' part of it. Is there a course called Minutes?
LOL///no, I was referring to the long list of programs available...you can party on those courses for years.
I've actually bought a few courses from these guys.
A couple of times a year they have these huge sales.
The courses are excellent.
| 104 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:38:39am |
re: #103 researchok
Oh totally. I'm so happy I found this MIT stuff; this will be my workout audio from now on.
Maybe after I'm done with all the MIT stuff I'll actually spend money on other ones.
Heh.
| 105 |
researchok Fri, Oct 15, 2010 3:40:22am |
re: #104 Obdicut
Oh totally. I'm so happy I found this MIT stuff; this will be my workout audio from now on.
Maybe after I'm done with all the MIT stuff I'll actually spend money on other ones.
Heh.
I've downloaded the MIT stuff before. It's pretty good.
It's easy to get addicted to this kind of stuff. It's great.
| 106 |
freetoken Fri, Oct 15, 2010 4:11:34am |
re: #97 Obdicut
MIT has lots of courses online even not using iTunes, too.
iTunes U is packed full of good things. I've started looking at the Oxford quantum mechanics lectures (Binney is good) to refresh my now aged mind of what I supposedly learnt years ago.
| 107 |
freetoken Fri, Oct 15, 2010 4:13:12am |
re: #105 researchok
Anyone with an internet connection has no excuse anymore to remain ignorant about nearly any subject. It's amazing at what one can find online besides Pr0n.
| 108 |
Varek Raith Fri, Oct 15, 2010 4:26:42am |
re: #107 freetoken
Anyone with an internet connection has no excuse anymore to remain ignorant about nearly any subject. It's amazing at what one can find online besides Pr0n.
LIES!
/
| 110 |
pharmmajor Fri, Oct 15, 2010 5:44:07am |
John Stossel: Measuring economic freedom
[Link: reason.com...]
The 2010 Index of Economic Freedom lowers the ranking of the United States to eighth out of 179 nations—behind Canada! A year ago, it ranked sixth, ahead of Canada.
Don't say it's Barack Obama's fault. Half the data used in the index is from George W. Bush's final six months in office. This is a bipartisan problem.
For the past 16 years, the index has ranked the world's countries on the basis of their economic freedom—or lack thereof. Ten criteria are used: freedoms related to business, trade, fiscal matters, monetary matters, investment, finance, labor, government spending, property rights, and freedom from corruption.
The top 10 countries are: Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland, Canada, the United States, Denmark, and Chile.
The bottom 10: Republic of Congo, Solomon Islands, Turkmenistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Libya, Venezuela, Burma, Eritrea, Cuba, Zimbabwe, and North Korea.
The index demonstrates what we libertarians have long said: Economic freedom leads to prosperity. Also, the best places to live and fastest-growing economies are among the freest, and vice versa. A society will be materially well off to the extent its people have the liberty to acquire property, start businesses, and trade in a secure legal and political environment.
| 111 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:06:11am |
re: #110 pharmmajor
The index demonstrates what we libertarians have long said: Economic freedom leads to prosperity.
Boy, Stossel doesn't really understand how to make a causation argument, does he?
I mean, you'd think he might examine the data and see Iceland near the top in economic freedom, and look at the way that Iceland's economy just simply imploded, and perhaps draw a conclusion or two. But Stossel already knows what conclusion he wants to draw, so he won't do that.
Similarly, he might ask himself why on earth he believes jack shit about a scale that represents economic freedom as anywhere close to high in the various Middle Eastern countries, where the practical rights of half of society-- women-- to participate meaningfully and equally in the economy are incredibly curtailed.
Can you explain why this supposed report on economic freedom leaves out any analysis of the economic repression of women in those countries?
| 112 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:11:07am |
re: #80 NJDhockeyfan
Look carefully at your salad next time you visit Moscow...
Earthworm salad served at Kremlin dinner for President Wulff
In Soviet Union, worms eat you! (after the KGB is done...)
| 113 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:44:04am |
re: #112 oaktree
Okay breakfast can wait a bit.
//
| 114 |
Ericus58 Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:47:43am |
Paris-Baghdad flights to resume after 20-year hiatus
Blog: Today in the Sky (USA Today) 10/15/2010
Author: Ben Mutzabaugh
French carrier Aigle Azur says it will begin flying between Paris and Baghdad this fall, The Associated Press reports. The airline says the flights will mark the first regularly scheduled commercial service between the cities in nearly 20 years.
A spokeswoman for the airline tells AFP that Aigle Azul's inaugural flight -- set for Oct. 30 -- will cater to business leaders. Then, the spokeswoman says, "in a few weeks, the regular program will be launched." The carrier plans two flights a week out of Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport.
Bloomberg News says Aigle Azur is "the oldest private airline in France," flying "to about 30 destination" in France, Algeria, Madeira, Mali, Morocco, Portugal and Tunisia. Bloomberg adds Aigle Azur "has a fleet of 11 Airbus A319, A320 and A321 aircraft."
AFP writes "Aigle Azur said it was negotiating a deal to take Air France passengers arriving in Paris on to Baghdad, allowing Air France to sell indirect flights to Iraq for the first time since 1990" when flights ended at the start of the Gulf War.
| 115 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:49:15am |
| 116 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:50:52am |
OK. How about a SF book discussion then?
[Link: io9.com...]
I've read about half of them. Generally brilliant writing, but some of the works take a while to get into. And I can easily see any given reader "bouncing off" any of them.
| 118 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:21:47am |
re: #116 oaktree
I read about 20 pages of Lord of the Rings, and couldn't have cared less about reading further if my life had depended on it. Aside from that, the only ones I've read (or even heard of, for that matter) from that list are Brave New World, Electric Sheep, and Last Man.
| 120 |
King of the Douche, now you may bow Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:25:42am |
I hate living in the city. Lost power for about 3 hours. Ya don't get that in the country. Geez.
| 121 |
King of the Douche, now you may bow Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:30:58am |
I guess I need to do another "I Hate" page. And I will.
| 123 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:37:13am |
It is being reported that our forces in Afghanistan have taken the gloves off in an effort to turn things around.
Something not being said is the role Obama is playing in this new escalation which should be commended. The simple fact that he has given a green light to releasing the dogs of war, and secondly he is not micro managing the escalation.
In tough times for Obama he deserves significant credit on this one.
| 125 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:42:40am |
re: #115 Alouette
I've not burned the Koran every single day since the day I was born. What do I get?
| 126 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:42:40am |
re: #123 filetandrelease
It is being reported that our forces in Afghanistan have taken the gloves off in an effort to turn things around.
Something not being said is the role Obama is playing in this new escalation which should be commended. The simple fact that he has given a green light to releasing the dogs of war, and secondly he is not micro managing the escalation.
In tough times for Obama he deserves significant credit on this one.
It will be interesting to see if they can negotiate and end to the war. Pakistan can't govern their taliban infested tribal areas. I'm not sure Afghanistan will be able to do it either. I strongly suspect any negotiated end to the war will be temporary.
| 127 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:43:05am |
re: #120 Cannadian Club Akbar
I hate living in the city. Lost power for about 3 hours. Ya don't get that in the country. Geez.
Oddly, I've noticed that power outages seem to be more frequent in the US than in Europe.
I had put it down to a) more frequent violent storms, and b) greater tendency to route power through overhead wires, especially from sub-stations to neighborhoods.
I would have thought that b) would mean that outages were less frequent in the city.
Any civil engineers care to comment?
| 128 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:44:16am |
re: #124 filetandrelease
How about "The Wheel of Time?"
Never bothered to touch that series. I must have caught the vibe early that it was going to drag on and on and on, and then never wrap up.
I'm beginning to suspect that GRR Martin is going to croak before finishing "A Song of Fire and Ice" to any level of satisfaction.
| 129 |
jaunte Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:45:28am |
re: #115 Alouette
Wingnut Pastor Terry Jones gets a brand new car for not going through with his Koran burning.
Self-promoters using each other:
Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
| 130 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:49:25am |
re: #127 iossarian
Oddly, I've noticed that power outages seem to be more frequent in the US than in Europe.
I had put it down to a) more frequent violent storms, and b) greater tendency to route power through overhead wires, especially from sub-stations to neighborhoods.
I would have thought that b) would mean that outages were less frequent in the city.
Any civil engineers care to comment?
Where I used to live in western Pennsylvania the local sub-station was located on the top of the bluff right beside the Allegheny River. The same river valley that thunderstorm cells tended to track directly up.
You could stand in the front yard watching a cell go up the river about four miles away. Not much wind, no rain, lightning flashes in the distant clouds - and the power would go out.
Averaged 1-2 outages per month living there. Usually only minutes long, but often enough to be quite annoying. With a big storm you'd get the multi-hour outages that such an event inflicts commonly in any area.
Since I've moved to Philly I think there have been *five* outages in the past four years. And they were all local failures; e.g. just the building, or a few blocks being affected.
| 131 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:50:50am |
re: #127 iossarian
Some utilities do a much better job than others in keeping their rights of way clear of trees that could take down their power lines. Others have buried their lines underground (which causes a different set of problems - in NYC for instance, buried cables can short and arc due to salt intrusion and water from snowfall into the underground vaults electrifying nearby structures or cause manhole explosions, etc.)
It depends on where you live... and my folks have Con Ed and underground lines in their development, but they always have power outages with the slightest breeze because the nearby lines into their development are above-ground. I get service from PSE&G, and we've had one outage in four years - due to a major storm that took down hundreds of trees in our area.
| 132 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:50:55am |
re: #126 Killgore Trout
It will be interesting to see if they can negotiate and end to the war. Pakistan can't govern their taliban infested tribal areas. I'm not sure Afghanistan will be able to do it either. I strongly suspect any negotiated end to the war will be temporary.
Sadly I agree, but this appears to be our last best chance of accomplishing anything positive over there.
| 133 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:51:26am |
re: #110 pharmmajor
John Stossel: Measuring economic freedom
[Link: reason.com...]
We're #7! We're #7! We're #7!
We're #7! We're #7! We're #7!
| 134 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:53:07am |
re: #128 oaktree
Wheel of time is worth reading, if you have the time. Awesome, although some of the middle books drag on. And what the hell happened to Martin!? Strange but good books. Everytime I get to like a charater he either kills them off or messes them up.
| 135 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:55:07am |
re: #97 Obdicut
For anyone with Itunes:
[Link: itunes.apple.com...]
MIT's Open Courseware Lectures are available for free download.
Wowzers.
OK, so I get to work, click your link, then click "view in iTunes", and FROM FRIGGIN iTUNES 10.0.1.22 ITSELF, I get:
You must have iTunes installed to access this content
along with a helpful link I can click to download it. I hereby rename iTunes to iTroll.
(iTunes search feature finds the content immediately, btw)
| 137 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:59:47am |
re: #132 filetandrelease
Sadly I agree, but this appears to be our last best chance of accomplishing anything positive over there.
It's areas whose inhabitants are interested in, and apparently quite happy being, a loose conglomeration of tribal groups that wish to be left alone to fight each other and raid neighbors without a central (and non-local) authority hanging over their head.
I suspect that the Western governments would have little issue with this, except for the fact that the inherent non-governance of these areas make them perfect havens for terrorists and their training camps from which they can then deploy and raise havoc elsewhere in the world.
Given that, there are not a lot of solutions. And none of them would be cheap to implement one way or another.
| 138 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:00:02am |
re: #131 lawhawk
Yeah, I live in an area with lots of trees and overhead power lines. Seems we get an outage every other big storm, usually for an hour or so. Definitely 3 or 4 times a year. Ice also brings down the lines in the winter sometimes.
In Europe, it really only seemed to happen when someone was digging up the street and sawed through the cable (or when a truly massive storm knocked out a substation). Once a year or less.
| 140 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:01:27am |
re: #133 darthstar
I'm pretty sure we're the only country in the top 10 without national healthcare....
The top 10 countries are: Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland, Canada, the United States, Denmark, and Chile.
| 141 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:01:46am |
re: #134 filetandrelease
Wheel of time is worth reading, if you have the time. Awesome, although some of the middle books drag on. And what the hell happened to Martin!? Strange but good books. Everytime I get to like a charater he either kills them off or messes them up.
Whenever I get involved in roleplaying games that involve a feudal set-up I recommend the first couple of books in the series as a good primer on some of the ins-and-outs that such a system entails. Martin shows the glamour of the tourney with all the romantic trappings, and also all the backbiting and in-fighting as the various families vie for influence.
| 142 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:02:44am |
re: #111 Obdicut
Boy, Stossel doesn't really understand how to make a causation argument, does he?
I mean, you'd think he might examine the data and see Iceland near the top in economic freedom, and look at the way that Iceland's economy just simply imploded, and perhaps draw a conclusion or two. But Stossel already knows what conclusion he wants to draw, so he won't do that.
Similarly, he might ask himself why on earth he believes jack shit about a scale that represents economic freedom as anywhere close to high in the various Middle Eastern countries, where the practical rights of half of society-- women-- to participate meaningfully and equally in the economy are incredibly curtailed.
Can you explain why this supposed report on economic freedom leaves out any analysis of the economic repression of women in those countries?
Could you explain what you mean by a "causation" argument? The way I understand it cause doesn't necessarily equate to affect. If I'm understanding your standard, "economic repression of women", since Iceland ranks 1st in the Global Gender Gap (put out by the World Economic Forum) their economy collapsed because of the involvement of women. If not, why would your causation conclusion indicate that a certain level of economic freedom lead to a collapse but not your gender equality standard?
Secondly, If you don't like Stossel could you just say so?//
| 143 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:03:27am |
re: #137 oaktree
I read recently that "COIN" would take 8 to 10 years to complete in Afghanistan.
| 144 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:03:37am |
| 146 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:04:55am |
Chamber of Commerce's foreign contributors benefit from the offshoring of US jobs:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Of course, the CoC's foreign funding issue has nothing to do with the economy. I know this because a right-wing anonymously funded attack ad told me so./
| 147 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:06:38am |
re: #144 RogueOne
Morning All!
$20 says it's someones birthday gift.
Probably a brown bag with an empty bottle of manischewitz ;]
| 149 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:08:34am |
re: #141 oaktree
Whenever I get involved in roleplaying games that involve a feudal set-up I recommend the first couple of books in the series as a good primer on some of the ins-and-outs that such a system entails. Martin shows the glamour of the tourney with all the romantic trappings, and also all the backbiting and in-fighting as the various families vie for influence.
Martin is not for the feint of heart. And would he publish his next book already!
When Jordan died before finishing the Wheel of Time it was incredibly sad. He wanted to finish the series and tried. But I have to admit the last book did not miss a beat. Apparently Jordon at least left very good notes. The next and maybe last addition will be out next month.
| 150 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:10:00am |
[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]
Posting this for no particular reason
| 151 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:10:05am |
re: #143 filetandrelease
I read recently that "COIN" would take 8 to 10 years to complete in Afghanistan.
Were there any defined goals/results that these 8-10 years would accomplish?
Afghanistan is the poster child for the "land war in Asia" that folk should try to avoid. That, or invading Russia (though that's usually European Russia that is getting invaded.)
| 152 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:10:39am |
re: #148 imp_62
Imp62, I dropped you an email.
| 153 |
yasharki Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:10:53am |
re: #134 filetandrelease
Wheel of time is worth reading, if you have the time. Awesome, although some of the middle books drag on. And what the hell happened to Martin!? Strange but good books. Everytime I get to like a charater he either kills them off or messes them up.
Only the first book is worth reading, the rest are boring, repetitive, immature, and a complete waste of time and money. It's all about Nyanaeve tugging her braid, Egwayne adjusting her shawl.
| 154 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:10:56am |
| 155 |
avanti Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:11:02am |
Looks like the GOP will tackle some important issues like reversing the shift to energy efficient CFL light bulbs. Fox is pushing the issue again today. Here's a older story about the topic:
"For both congressmen, the economic concerns outweigh the environmental concerns.
“I’m not opposed to the energy saving bulbs at all,” Barton said, “but I say let the consumers make the choice, instead of mandating.”“The biggest, most damaging thing about the CFLs,” he said, “is that people over the age of 40 look older when they’re under fluorescent light.”
I agree that candle light is more flattering, maybe we should go back to that.
| 156 |
Interesting Times Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:11:23am |
re: #146 iossarian
Chamber of Commerce's foreign contributors benefit from the offshoring of US jobs:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Of course, the CoC's foreign funding issue has nothing to do with the economy. I know this because a right-wing anonymously funded attack ad told me so./
| 157 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:11:40am |
re: #133 darthstar
We're #7! We're #7! We're #7!
We're #7! We're #7! We're #7!
That "study" of course is from the Heritage Foundation which is a Republican think-tank. That being said I'm a bit confused regarding the premise of "Hair Gel" John Stossel that we're declining because the overall scores have hovered over the same figure over the years. In fact we find it is now higher at 78.0 than it was in 1995, 1996, and 1997 when it ranged between 75.4 and 76.7.
He may be looking at a specific figure that I have not looked at. But, that's John Stossel for you.
| 159 |
bluewater Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:12:11am |
That girl in the clip is fantastic -- who is she? I think she's got quite a future!
| 160 |
Ericus58 Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:12:28am |
re: #123 filetandrelease
It is being reported that our forces in Afghanistan have taken the gloves off in an effort to turn things around.
Something not being said is the role Obama is playing in this new escalation which should be commended. The simple fact that he has given a green light to releasing the dogs of war, and secondly he is not micro managing the escalation.
In tough times for Obama he deserves significant credit on this one.
I will give him credit for his present course of action in regards to Afghanistan. And his approach to the tribal area's of Pakistan with Drone strikes.
But I will also keep in mind his - as well as Reid, Pelosi and a majority of the Democrats that derided President Bush for his "Surge" initiative in Iraq. And in regards to the Surge in Afghanistan, Obama was not willing to commit to the total numbers proposed from the Pentagon. In fact, Biden was even was trying to push even lower numbers.
| 161 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:13:24am |
re: #157 Gus 802
Stossel's an asshole. I chose not to think about him.
| 163 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:15:49am |
re: #161 darthstar
Stossel's an asshole. I chose not to think about him.
That's one way of putting it. I think it's hilarious that a "libertarian" is using data from Heritage.
| 164 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:16:53am |
re: #163 Gus 802
That's one way of putting it. I think it's hilarious that a "libertarian" is using data from Heritage.
There are two kinds of self-professed libertarians. Those who are conservatives and those who lie about it.
| 165 |
Ericus58 Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:17:49am |
re: #146 iossarian
Chamber of Commerce's foreign contributors benefit from the offshoring of US jobs:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Of course, the CoC's foreign funding issue has nothing to do with the economy. I know this because a right-wing anonymously funded attack ad told me so./
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
"But a closer examination shows that there is little evidence that what the chamber does in collecting overseas dues is improper or even unusual, according to both liberal and conservative election-law lawyers and campaign finance documents.
In fact, the controversy over the Chamber of Commerce financing may say more about the Washington spin cycle — where an Internet blog posting can be quickly picked up by like-minded groups and become political fodder for the president himself — than it does about the vagaries of campaign finance.
In addition, more than 160 political action committees active in campaigning have been set up by corporations that are based overseas, including military contractors like B.A.E. Systems and pharmaceutical giants like GlaxoSmithKline, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research service.
Such groups, which collectively have spent hundreds of millions dollars on political causes to advance their agenda, are required by law to ensure that any foreign money they receive is isolated and not used to finance political activities, which would violate a longstanding federal ban. The Chamber of Commerce says it has a vigorous process for ensuring that does not happen, and no evidence has emerged to suggest that is untrue. "
| 166 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:18:07am |
re: #163 Gus 802
That's one way of putting it. I think it's hilarious that a "libertarian" is using data from Heritage.
Libertarians really should not use any polling data. It implies that someone had your phone number or address or knew your name, which implies an unconsititushernal invasion of your right to be off the grid unless you are collecting some sort of benefit from the government.
| 167 |
Interesting Times Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:18:21am |
re: #155 avanti
“I’m not opposed to the energy saving bulbs at all,” Barton said, “but I say let the consumers make the choice, instead of mandating.” “The biggest, most damaging thing about the CFLs,” he said, “is that people over the age of 40 look older when they’re under fluorescent light.”
When I saw this, I could have sworn you were posted an Onion link. But then again, this is "I apologize to BP" Barton we're talking about, so no Onion writer could possibly come up with lines more idiotic than what he actually says.
| 168 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:19:54am |
re: #153 yasharki
Only the first book is worth reading, the rest are boring, repetitive, immature, and a complete waste of time and money. It's all about Nyanaeve tugging her braid, Egwayne adjusting her shawl.
Come on, don't hold back. At one point, it did seem like the never ending saga. How much of it did you read?
| 169 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:19:57am |
If you look at the 1995Heritage data you'll also find that Bahrain had a slightly lower score than the USA: 76.2 vs. 76.7. They were therefore putting economic freedom on par with both nations -- overall.
So, let's look at Bahrain in 1995:
1996 Annual Report for Bahrain
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL ANNUAL REPORT 1996
[This report covers the period 01/01/95-31/12/95]BAHRAIN
An estimated 4,000 people were arrested during the year following the outbreak of widespread protests calling for the restoration of democratic rights. The vast majority were Shi'a Muslims, among them prisoners of conscience, who were held without charge or trial. Between 150 and 160 people arrested in connection with the protests were sentenced following unfair trials. At least 15 political prisoners convicted after unfair trials in previous years continued serving their sentences. Scores of political detainees were tortured, two of whom died in custody. At least 10 civilians were shot dead by the security forces and riot police in circumstances suggesting that they may have been extrajudicially executed. One death sentence was passed. Seven Bahraini nationals were forcibly exiled and at least 11 others were prevented from returning to the country.
Continues.
| 170 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:20:03am |
I am making lamb stew. The house is starting to smell awesome. *pats self on back*
| 171 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:20:27am |
re: #133 darthstar
HA! I missed that. +1 for the enthusiasm!
| 172 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:21:04am |
re: #166 imp_62
Libertarians really should not use any polling data. It implies that someone had your phone number or address or knew your name, which implies an unconsititushernal invasion of your right to be off the grid unless you are collecting some sort of benefit from the government.
It's not polling data. It's some magical "economic freedom" study they put out every year.
| 173 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:21:46am |
re: #172 Gus 802
It's not polling data. It's some magical "economic freedom" study they put out every year.
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
| 174 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:22:11am |
So, the EPA is trying to figure out how to calculate energy usage in a way that people can relate to for the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf and other hybrids, plug ins, and all electrics that come down the road.
We're all used to MPG as a measure of auto fuel efficiency, but with different fuel sources, that measure no longer translates well.
What if we switched to joules or some other measure with the resulting measure showing energy consumed per mile (or 100 miles).
Meanwhile, it looks like GM has seriously overpromised on the Volt (shocking, I know). It isn't getting 230 mpg. In fact, it will get lower EPA mileage versus the Hybrid Prius (or even some of the higher efficiency diesels available in Europe or equivalent mileage of some compacts in the US like the Corolla) over a 300 mile drive (a typical weekend excursion).
The Volt may make sense as a potential commuter vehicle, but not as a primary vehicle. Moreover, it encourages more consumption of goods and energy because you'd need a second vehicle for heavy lifting - and the more weight in the car, the lower the battery range. Then, there's the issue that GM has downgraded the all-electric range to 25-40 miles, so if you haven't fully charged the car, you might find yourself on gas power in even fewer miles (and driving your gallons per mile up).
Far from saving GM, they've turned out a vehicle that doesn't even match the accomplishments and versatility of the Prius.
| 175 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:23:20am |
re: #166 imp_62
Libertarians really should not use any polling data. It implies that someone had your phone number or address or knew your name, which implies an unconsititushernal invasion of your right to be off the grid unless you are collecting some sort of benefit from the government.
I refuse to use a discount card at the grocery store because it's no one's stinking business what I'm buying! I changed my email address last week because a family member gave it out to an old friend from high school. If I wanted people to know how to get hold of me I'd join facebook or linkedIn.
Quit looking at me!
| 176 |
yasharki Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:23:33am |
re: #123 filetandrelease
It is being reported that our forces in Afghanistan have taken the gloves off in an effort to turn things around.
Something not being said is the role Obama is playing in this new escalation which should be commended. The simple fact that he has given a green light to releasing the dogs of war, and secondly he is not micro managing the escalation.
In tough times for Obama he deserves significant credit on this one.
Taken their gloves off??? What were we doing for 9 years, chilling in a red corner? Are they saying the insurgency can be defeated by doubling amount of ordinance dropped. Why did it take so long to come to such a conclusion? And if it's supposed to "turn things around", and pound mujaheds into the ground, why are they having peace talks with taliban?
| 177 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:23:35am |
re: #142 RogueOne
Could you explain what you mean by a "causation" argument? The way I understand it cause doesn't necessarily equate to affect. If I'm understanding your standard, "economic repression of women", since Iceland ranks 1st in the Global Gender Gap (put out by the World Economic Forum) their economy collapsed because of the involvement of women.
| 178 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:24:09am |
re: #159 bluewater
That girl in the clip is fantastic -- who is she? I think she's got quite a future!
| 179 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:24:43am |
re: #173 imp_62
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
yesterday I heard a radio ad for Mike Pence, the first ad I've seen of his this year. He pointed out that "whenever freedom is put up for a vote in the heartland, freedom always wins". Yea Freedom!
| 180 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:24:53am |
re: #151 oaktree
Were there any defined goals/results that these 8-10 years would accomplish?
Not in what I read, but I assume a stable government with a military capable of protecting the people and a government capable of providing essential services.
| 181 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:25:24am |
re: #174 lawhawk
So, the EPA is trying to figure out how to calculate energy usage in a way that people can relate to for the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf and other hybrids, plug ins, and all electrics that come down the road.
We're all used to MPG as a measure of auto fuel efficiency, but with different fuel sources, that measure no longer translates well.
What if we switched to joules or some other measure with the resulting measure showing energy consumed per mile (or 100 miles).
Meanwhile, it looks like GM has seriously overpromised on the Volt (shocking, I know). It isn't getting 230 mpg. In fact, it will get lower EPA mileage versus the Hybrid Prius (or even some of the higher efficiency diesels available in Europe or equivalent mileage of some compacts in the US like the Corolla) over a 300 mile drive (a typical weekend excursion).
The Volt may make sense as a potential commuter vehicle, but not as a primary vehicle. Moreover, it encourages more consumption of goods and energy because you'd need a second vehicle for heavy lifting - and the more weight in the car, the lower the battery range. Then, there's the issue that GM has downgraded the all-electric range to 25-40 miles, so if you haven't fully charged the car, you might find yourself on gas power in even fewer miles (and driving your gallons per mile up).
Far from saving GM, they've turned out a vehicle that doesn't even match the accomplishments and versatility of the Prius.
I have just purchased and cracked open "Start-Up Nation" and the first discussion about Better Place is astounding. These hybrids and semi-electrics like the Volt are going to be scrap metal in short order.
| 182 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:25:50am |
re: #177 Obdicut
So that's what you're saying? that women caused the world wide economic collapse? have you explained this theory to your spouse?
| 183 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:26:01am |
re: #155 avanti
New generations of CFLs offer up softer (warmer) color tones, and you can now choose lighting based on the warmth of the color (in kelvins).
The new LED lights are still not quite ready for prime time and there are shortcomings for CFLs too - they take a while to come up to full strength when you're dealing with PAR lighting (for spotlights, recessed cans, etc.).
Still, that hasn't stopped me from putting CFLs in all my lighting applications at home, and I've been quite happy overall with the results - much lower energy usage and I don't have to change lights as frequently. I still have a couple of standard PAR lights, but as they break, I replace them with newer CFLs, which take less time to get up to full strength...
I just don't like the fact that this was legislated, rather than allowing the markets to determine what works best.
| 184 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:26:28am |
re: #142 RogueOne
Well, I fucked up my quote.
Anyway, here's it succinctly:
Your bit about me thinking that Iceland collapsed because of the involvement of women is just a complete failure of reading comprehension on your part. What I'm saying is that there is no relationship between this bogus scale of economic freedom and economic performance. Their analysis is pitiful, as seen by the fact that they don't even bother mentioning, let alone factoring in, that women-- half the population-- have incredibly limited economic freedom in many of the countries they analyse and give good marks to.
Anyone using this analysis should really explain why the fuck they leave out that.
They should also explain why they decide, given that other freedoms, non-economic, are also higher in the top ten nations, why it's "economic freedom" that leads to prosperity and not other freedoms, or other factors. That's the causal part they haven't even begun to make an argument for.
| 185 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:26:56am |
re: #175 RogueOne
I refuse to use a discount card at the grocery store because it's no one's stinking business what I'm buying! I changed my email address last week because a family member gave it out to an old friend from high school. If I wanted people to know how to get hold of me I'd join facebook or linkedIn.
Quit looking at me!
I can one-up you on the grocery store thing: I use my in-laws' phone number to access store discounts so they can't track what I buy. Then, when they don't hae something I really want, I go to Customer Service and complain loudly.
| 186 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:27:12am |
re: #176 yasharki
Taken their gloves off??? What were we doing for 9 years, chilling in a red corner? Are they saying the insurgency can be defeated by doubling amount of ordinance dropped. Why did it take so long to come to such a conclusion? And if it's supposed to "turn things around", and pound mujaheds into the ground, why are they having peace talks with taliban?
Fred Kaplan's article in Slate makes more sense (IMO) than the NYT piece linked above.
| 187 |
yasharki Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:27:19am |
re: #168 filetandrelease
Come on, don't hold back. At one point, it did seem like the never ending saga. How much of it did you read?
8 books if I remember correctly, last two totally turned me off to the whole saga, one of them (A crown of swords I think) took over a thousand pages to describe an aes-sedai tea party :)
| 188 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:27:56am |
re: #155 avanti
I think we have found the really dim bulb & he is it. I switched to all CFL years ago. It really bothers me they are all from China or offshore these days. Of course as a photographer with a working studio I have to carefully control the light balance or tone. I found I could buy CFL in all the nice tones for my light box and studio (5200 or 5600 Kelvin) or the nice sun toned warmer colors like 3600 K. Pleasant warm tone.
A link to what I mean from Energy Star
| 189 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:28:13am |
re: #179 RogueOne
yesterday I heard a radio ad for Mike Pence, the first ad I've seen of his this year. He pointed out that "whenever freedom is put up for a vote in the heartland, freedom always wins". Yea Freedom!
I wish I could live in the heartland, instead of the lumbarland or lower.
| 190 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:28:21am |
re: #185 imp_62
If I lived in Philly I'd have a beer with you.
| 191 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:29:09am |
And since Heritage has Hong Kong and Singapore on top let's have a look at the latest human rights reports:
2009 Annual Report for Singapore
Head of state S. R. Nathan
Head of government Lee Hsien Loong
Death penalty retentionist
Population 4.5 million
Life expectancy 79.4 years
Under-5 mortality (m/f) 4/4 per 1,000
Adult literacy 92.5 per centAn easing of restrictions on freedom of assembly was overshadowed by heavy penalties and restrictive measures imposed on opposition activists, journalists and human rights defenders. Suspected Islamic militants remained detained without charge or trial under the Internal Security Act (ISA), amid concerns that some were at risk of torture and other ill-treatment during questioning. Foreign domestic workers continued to be excluded from legislation protecting the rights of foreign workers. Singapore rejected the UN General Assembly resolution calling for a moratorium on executions. At least five prisoners faced imminent execution, although the number of actual executions was unknown.
Hong King of course now comes under the juridiction of the People's Republic of China.
Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
In July, tens of thousands of protesters marched to demand an improvement in human rights, people’s livelihoods and meaningful political participation.
Freedom of expression and assembly
Dozens of activists, Tibetan Buddhist monks, and Falun Gong practitioners were denied entry to Hong Kong before the Olympic torch relay in May and before and during the Olympics. Government restrictions on protests at equestrian venues limited freedom of expression and assembly.
Refugees and asylum-seekers
Despite co-operation between the government and UN High Commissioner for Refugees, immigration laws continued to permit the deportation of asylum-seekers, including unaccompanied minors, before asylum applications had been determined. In November, the CAT expressed concerns about the lack of legal measures governing asylum and a fair and efficient refugee status determination.
In July, the Court of Appeal ruled that placing individuals in administrative detention without clear explanation of the detention policy and process was in violation of Article 5 of the Hong Kong Bill of Rights Ordinance. This resulted in the release of hundreds of detainees, including asylum-seekers and individuals at risk of torture if returned to countries of origin.
Police and security forcesThe CAT criticized the police practice of automatically body searching all detainees. Official figures showed police conducted more than 1,600 strip searches between July and September. The CAT urged limiting body searches strictly to cases where they are clearly justified.
Racism
Anti-race discrimination legislation passed in July fell short of guarantees provided for in the UN Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination to which Hong Kong is a party. The legislation included exemptions for many government administrative measures, as well as exemptions for discrimination based on nationality, citizenship and residency status.
Violence against women
In June, the Domestic Violence Ordinance was expanded to include abuses at the hands of present or former cohabitants and relatives who do not live in the same premises. However, violence between same-sex couples and damage to property remained unprotected.
| 192 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:29:27am |
re: #190 RogueOne
If I lived in Philly I'd have a beer with you.
Ha! Thanks. If you are ever in Western NY, let me know, since that is my current theatre of operations.
| 194 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:30:18am |
re: #174 lawhawk
The pros and cons of the Volt regarding energy consumption completely depend on how it is used (which is true of any vehicle).
First of all, the statement "you'd need another vehicle for heavy lifting" is completely dependent on your personal situation. I currently do not own a truck, nor do I need one. The very few times I have needed to haul anything, I have rented a truck from Home Depot for $20.
I could very easily use the Volt as my primary vehicle. Most days, I would use it in all-electric mode all day (my daily driving is less than 30 miles 90% of the time).
It would also be fine for my longer drives, at which point it would be getting better mileage (at 30-40 mpg) than my current car, which gets ~25.
Is the Volt for everyone? No. Is it much, much more efficient (in terms of gas consumption) for many people (like me) than their current vehicles? Yes.
| 195 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:31:40am |
re: #184 Obdicut
Also, prosperity correlates very highly with the possession of nukes.
Ergo, all countries should have nukes. QED.
Thanks for playing, Heritage.
| 196 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:31:56am |
re: #186 negativ
The main reason that there's been a change in Afghan strategy is who is at the top - Gen. Petraeus. He's not hidebound to any one strategy, and is willing to try strategies that are tailored to the situation. He proffered the surge for Iraq, and it worked with great effect. A similar strategy in Afghanistan may have produced results, but it requires dealing with the fact that the Taliban exploit a porous border with Pakistan and that the terrain is far more difficult than in Iraq.
COIN could work in Afghanistan, but there are political considerations at work too - time constraints to get things going. Throw in the UAV airstrikes, and you've got a multipronged strategy to deal with the Taliban and al Qaeda.
The talks with some Taliban may be akin to the Anbar Awakening strategy - to convince some Taliban that they are better off with a peaceful relationship with the Afghan govt in Kabul and inclusion in the political process rather than siding with al Qaeda and the jihadists. In its most basic form, this appears to be a divide and conquer strategy since the Taliban are anything but monolithic in structure.
| 197 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:32:35am |
re: #176 yasharki
Taken their gloves off??? What were we doing for 9 years, chilling in a red corner? Are they saying the insurgency can be defeated by doubling amount of ordinance dropped. Why did it take so long to come to such a conclusion? And if it's supposed to "turn things around", and pound mujaheds into the ground, why are they having peace talks with taliban?
Yes, taking our gloves off. Pounding your enemy into the ground is generally a great way to motivate them into capitulation.
Petraus does not believe he has the time to make COIN work
so he is trying something a bit more aggressive. Time will tell but it is difficult to be optimistic about that hell hole.
| 198 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:33:20am |
re: #175 RogueOne
I refuse to use a discount card at the grocery store because it's no one's stinking business what I'm buying! I changed my email address last week because a family member gave it out to an old friend from high school. If I wanted people to know how to get hold of me I'd join facebook or linkedIn.
Quit looking at me!
I use old discount card telephone numbers...or I memorize the telephone number of someone in front of me in line so they can get the reward points. That's actually kind of fun because the checker doesn't recognize the same number being used, but sometimes does a double-take when they say, "Thank you, Mr. [Same last name as the last customer]"
| 199 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:33:34am |
| 200 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:33:59am |
re: #193 Gus 802
Heritage would have countries with death squads on top.
We lived in Germany for a few years. Bavaria is an unabashed police state (with Oktoberfest and great food, albeit), having the highest ratio of police officers to citizens in Germany. This actually works nicely when you have young children. There is an annual tradition when anarchist youth groups from across Germany get on a train, go to Munich to protest and get "turned back" at the train station by short tempered gentlemen with batons. If you are more than 50m away from the station, you would never know what is going on.
| 201 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:33:59am |
re: #175 RogueOne
I refuse to use a discount card at the grocery store because it's no one's stinking business what I'm buying!
One of my grocery store discount cards identifies me as "Sir Reinhardt Pumpaloahf" who resides at No. 27 Sasquatch Treasure Trail, Netherpoostink, PA, 90210.
| 202 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:34:24am |
re: #174 lawhawk
Oh but the EV1 did everything!
///
Chevrolet makes two things well. 2 very fast cars and some long lasting trucks. Methinks they should stick to their strengths. Over-promises really undercut consumer faith in the technology and the brand. And few things have been so over promised to green leaning consumers as electric cars.
| 203 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:34:39am |
re: #191 Gus 802
And since Heritage has Hong Kong and Singapore on top let's have a look at the latest human rights reports:
Hong King of course now comes under the juridiction of the People's Republic of China.
Heh. They still have Bahrain near the top. At number 13.
2009 Annual Report for Bahrain
Head of state King Hamad bin ‘Issa Al Khalifa
Head of government Shaikh Khalifa bin Salman Al Khalifa
Death penalty retentionist
Population 766,000
Life expectancy 75.2 years
Under-5 mortality (m/f) 14/14 per 1,000
Adult literacy 86.5 per centThe authorities failed adequately to investigate allegations of torture and other ill-treatment of detainees. Government critics were briefly detained and several websites were closed down. One person was executed. The government indicated it would decriminalize certain publishing offences, reduce legal discrimination against women and introduce other reforms.
I wonder what the connection is between the Heritage Foundation and Bahrain.
| 204 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:35:03am |
re: #187 yasharki
8 books if I remember correctly, last two totally turned me off to the whole saga, one of them (A crown of swords I think) took over a thousand pages to describe an aes-sedai tea party :)
LOL, yes,there were some in the middle that dragged on. I blame his publisher. The two or three were very good.
| 205 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:35:27am |
Oops, the last two or three were very good.
| 206 |
yasharki Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:36:35am |
re: #197 filetandrelease
Yes, taking our gloves off. Pounding your enemy into the ground is generally a great way to motivate them into capitulation.
Petraus does not believe he has the time to make COIN work
so he is trying something a bit more aggressive. Time will tell but it is difficult to be optimistic about that hell hole.
Sure, it's a good strategy for conventional warfare, but you can't do that against partisan movement, they'll simply dissolve into civilian population like they always do. It's not like there's a front line behind which is the enemy.
| 207 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:36:57am |
Here is how LOW the Democrats have sunk in order to raise money and win anything in the up coming election. This is a REAL email, from the Democratic National Committee... it came to my girlfriend... all the links are real (I did not build active links here... read this...
Friend --
Two years ago, I met 10 of you.
Just before I accepted our party's nomination in front of 80,000 people in Denver, I spoke with 10 grassroots supporters who had won a trip to meet me backstage.
I still remember the time we spent together -- because these are the people, like you, who stood with me in 2008, and got me through the tough fights since.
But we face another test on November 2nd that will say a lot about our future -- and I need you by my side again.
A Supreme Court decision I strongly disagree with has shifted the balance of power in our elections from folks like you to giant corporations. Their massive spending on attack ads could have a real impact on who represents you at all levels of government. Only supporters like you -- and all the work you are doing -- are standing in their way.
This may be our toughest fight yet.
So next week, just 11 days before the elections, I want to meet three supporters like you backstage at a rally in Las Vegas -- one of the last big rallies of this campaign.
Please make a $3 donation now to be automatically entered to win a trip to be at my side at the rally in Vegas.
This movement has always been about more than me. It's about change, and the kind of future we envision for this country.
The folks I met backstage in Denver told me they wanted health reform, a clean-energy economy, and a resolution to the war in Iraq. They wanted a new kind of politics, and a new kind of leader.
It was their hope and expectation that together we would move beyond the status quo, that we would counter the special interests and corporate influence in Washington -- that we would do what was right and necessary for all Americans.
With your help, we have made historic progress, but there is much left to do -- and it will not happen without your involvement. I need strong allies in Congress who will stand with us in the tough fights ahead, and I need you to give it all you've got through November 2nd to make sure they can.
Your donation today will provide critical support to our Vote 2010 campaign as we reach out to millions of voters who will decide the closest races across the country.
It will determine if we pass this test, and win our toughest fight yet.
Please donate $3 or more to be automatically entered to win a trip to Las Vegas to meet me backstage:
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
I hope to see you out there,
President Barack Obama
P.S. -- Making a donation automatically registers you for the sweepstakes. You may also enter the sweepstakes without making a contribution either online or via text message -- click here to enter online or here for instructions on how to enter via text message. No minimum contribution is necessary to be registered.
No purchase or contribution necessary to enter. Void where prohibited. You can enter the contest without making a contribution by clicking here. Only U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents over the age of 18 who are residents of the 50 states or D.C. are eligible to enter. Entries must be received by 11:59 p.m. on 10/15/10. Three winners will receive one round-trip ticket within the continental U.S. to Las Vegas, NV; hotel accommodations for one; and a meeting with President Obama at a rally event on 10/22/10 (approximate combined retail value $1,200.00). Odds of winning depend on number of entries received. Promotion is subject to Official Rules, available here, including restrictions on eligibility.
Paid for and authorized by the Democratic National Committee, [Link: www.democrats.org....]
This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
Democratic National Committee, 430 S. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC 20003
Pitiful
| 208 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:37:37am |
re: #201 negativ
One of my grocery store discount cards identifies me as "Sir Reinhardt Pumpaloahf" who resides at No. 27 Sasquatch Treasure Trail, Netherpoostink, PA, 90210.
Hehe. Whenever I am asked for a name when I make an order somewhere, I use the name of the person taking the order (from the name tag). Always amusing to see the reaction.
| 209 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:38:17am |
re: #202 Rightwingconspirator
Oh but the EV1 did everything!
///Chevrolet makes two things well. 2 very fast cars and some long lasting trucks. Methinks they should stick to their strengths. Over-promises really undercut consumer faith in the technology and the brand. And few things have been so over promised to green leaning consumers as electric cars.
My truck, GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax diesel Allison transmission. It can pull a house.
| 210 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:38:36am |
re: #199 Alouette
Here!
I made an order about an hour ago for a really beautiful Rosenthal challah knife (blue). Just telling you to make sure you get the credit.
| 212 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:39:17am |
re: #207 Walter L. Newton
Who do you think is going to win the senate race? Buck or Bennet?
| 214 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:39:36am |
re: #207 Walter L. Newton
Still better than the fake census forms....
| 215 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:39:48am |
re: #207 Walter L. Newton
You getting nervous about the election, Walter?
| 216 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:40:03am |
re: #206 yasharki
Sure, it's a good strategy for conventional warfare, but you can't do that against partisan movement, they'll simply dissolve into civilian population like they always do. It's not like there's a front line behind which is the enemy.
I don't disagree. But at least he is willing to try to something different. IE, Lawhawks comment above.
| 217 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:40:30am |
re: #209 filetandrelease
My truck, GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax diesel Allison transmission. It can pull a house.
Allison trannies are the absolute gold standard. No better in a truck or larger.
| 218 |
King of the Douche, now you may bow Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:40:44am |
I was stopped while on a walk, looking for directions to a doctor for a Spanish mum and dad. I don't speak Spanish. I did good. Yea!!!
| 219 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:41:03am |
re: #213 imp_62
It is. Of course, asking for a $3 donation for a chance to meet the President is completely different from asking for $500 in order to sit in a conference room and listen to Palin explain how socialism is taking over the country.
| 220 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:41:06am |
re: #215 darthstar
You getting nervous about the election, Walter?
I have a feeling Walter always expects the worse and toasts himself with sour mash when he is right.
| 221 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:41:35am |
re: #214 jamesfirecat
Still better than the fake census forms...
Hey, come on. This is a serious topic. I mean, look at who's covering it.
//
| 222 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:41:37am |
re: #212 RogueOne
Who do you think is going to win the senate race? Buck or Bennet?
Walter put a "Buck for Senate" sign in his yard and all the does stopped eating his roses.
| 223 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:42:33am |
re: #221 Gus 802
Hey, come on. This is a serious topic. I mean, look at who's covering it.
//
What people don't seem to realize is that the truth is out there... on the internets if they know where to look for it!
///
| 224 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:43:01am |
re: #170 imp_62
I am making lamb stew. The house is starting to smell awesome. *pats self on back*
I made red beans with rice last night. Used some smoked chorizo to add additional flavor. The cats decided right then they wanted that instead of what they were supplied with (cat food). We're now in Day 2 of a standoff...
| 225 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:43:13am |
re: #223 jamesfirecat
What people don't seem to realize is that the truth is out there... on the internets if they know where to look for it!
///
Weasel Zippers, Free Republic, What Really Happened, Above Top Secret!!11ty
| 226 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:43:17am |
re: #223 jamesfirecat
What people don't seem to realize is that the truth is out there... on the internets if they know where to look for it!
///
Glenn Beck says it, the internet validates it. Fact.
| 227 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:43:30am |
re: #217 imp_62
Allison trannies are the absolute gold standard. No better in a truck or larger.
built by hoosiers. So is the most american car out there, a toyota.
| 228 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:43:40am |
re: #219 iossarian
It is. Of course, asking for a $3 donation for a chance to meet the President is completely different from asking for $500 in order to sit in a conference room and listen to Palin explain how socialism is taking over the country.
If I ever paid $500 to see any Palin, I would want her to be wearing a camouflage bikini and carrying a hunting rifle Hello Kitty AR15
Image: hellokitty_ar15assault_2.jpg
| 229 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:45:04am |
re: #228 imp_62
If I ever paid $500 to see any Palin, I would want her to be wearing a camouflage bikini and carrying a
hunting rifleHello Kitty AR15
Image: hellokitty_ar15assault_2.jpg
I like that Hello Kitty assault rifle. If I had the money to throw away, I'd buy it so I could take it up north when I visit my family and we sometimes go out to do some shooting.
| 230 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:45:06am |
re: #224 oaktree
I made red beans with rice last night. Used some smoked chorizo to add additional flavor. The cats decided right then they wanted that instead of what they were supplied with (cat food). We're now in Day 2 of a standoff...
The cats are going to win. Give up now while there is still hope for your relationship with them.
| 231 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:45:16am |
re: #225 Gus 802
Weasel Zippers, Free Republic, What Really Happened, Above Top Secret!!11ty
You sound a little jealous you weren't one of the very few selected to try to win a chance to meet the president. They don't want your $3, get over it.//
| 232 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:45:25am |
| 233 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:46:03am |
re: #225 Gus 802
Weasel Zippers, Free Republic, What Really Happened, Above Top Secret!!11ty
Here... if I have to do your work for you...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
| 234 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:46:06am |
re: #228 imp_62
That's a fake one...there's a real one for sale at glamguns.com
[Link: www.glamguns.com...]
| 235 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:46:35am |
re: #231 RogueOne
You sound a little jealous you weren't one of the very few selected to try to win a chance to meet the president. They don't want your $3, get over it.//
I'm going to call bullshit on this one. If anyone wants more information it's out there.
| 236 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:46:55am |
re: #233 Walter L. Newton
Here... if I have to do your work for you...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
That's not the same thing like the fake email you posted.
| 238 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:47:28am |
re: #234 darthstar
That's a fake one...there's a real one for sale at glamguns.com
[Link: www.glamguns.com...]
Oooo shiny and wood stock O_o
I want one.
| 239 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:47:47am |
OK folks. Compare this:
Go backstage with the President
Too much is at stake in the November elections for any of us to sit on the sidelines. The President is fired up -- traveling the country to make the case to voters.
Make a donation and be automatically registered for a chance to meet the President at a rally in Las Vegas on October 22nd.
Corporate special interests are spending millions to stop our agenda this fall. But we will not allow our voices to be drowned out.
We're knocking on more doors, making more calls, talking to more voters -- it's the most ambitious grassroots plan any party has run in an election like this.
Donate today.
Click here to read the contest rules and regulations. To participate in the contest without donating, please click here.
With this: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 240 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:47:54am |
re: #233 Walter L. Newton
Here... if I have to do your work for you...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
I realize this paragraph was too much for you to actually read:
Click here to read the contest rules and regulations. To participate in the contest without donating, please click here.
Lazy, walter...you're getting really lazy.
| 241 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:49:06am |
re: #236 Gus 802
That's not the same thing like the fake email you posted.
Click on the link in the "fake" email I posted and get ready for technological miracles... redirect....
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
| 242 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:49:20am |
re: #240 darthstar
I realize this paragraph was too much for you to actually read:
Lazy, walter...you're getting really lazy.
You mean like this?
NO PURCHASE, PAYMENT, OR FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTION OF ANY KIND IS NECESSARY TO ENTER OR WIN THIS PROMOTION.
Say, where' the three bucks I was reading about at Whizbang Blog and Weasel Zippers?
| 243 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:49:37am |
re: #207 Walter L. Newton
What's the difference between that and buying some useless crap that you can only wear at a rally?
| 244 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:50:21am |
re: #241 Walter L. Newton
Click on the link in the "fake" email I posted and get ready for technological miracles... redirect...
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
Pretty sure "redirect" is godless science. If God wanted us to redirect, he would have given us a second screen for free to open new windows in.
| 245 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:50:24am |
re: #241 Walter L. Newton
Click on the link in the "fake" email I posted and get ready for technological miracles... redirect...
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
They're not the same. Then again you're probably studying this like you studied the "Climategate" data.
| 246 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:50:25am |
From the google search up above, Ann Althouse posted this:
[Link: althouse.blogspot.com...]
I didn't watch the debate. Reid really said his favorite supreme court justice was Scalia?
| 247 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:50:41am |
re: #230 imp_62
The cats are going to win. Give up now while there is still hope for your relationship with them.
My bet is that the impasse will be broken when I open up a can of tuna. I get these periodic hunger strikes regarding the food brand and flavor they normally get fed. A change of pace with some tuna or freshly cooked chicken, and then they will settle back to the same food routine.
A balancing act between my annoyance at getting pestered for food by the two cats and my annoyance at throwing out food that they eat one bite of and then ignore. (And they wolfed the same stuff down a day or two before...)
I'm sure this is getting me a downding on the Feline Overlord performance review in any case.
| 248 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:50:55am |
re: #240 darthstar
I realize this paragraph was too much for you to actually read:
Lazy, walter...you're getting really lazy.
I read the whole thing... it's pathetic... a contest to meet Obama... the president becomes a game prize... sort of falls right in line with the casting call for a MTV "town hall" meeting. Cheap.
| 249 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:51:43am |
re: #248 Walter L. Newton
I read the whole thing... it's pathetic... a contest to meet Obama... the president becomes a game prize... sort of falls right in line with the casting call for a MTV "town hall" meeting. Cheap.
I think there's a term for that, it's right on the tip of my tongue, something Jerry Brown said......
| 250 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:51:47am |
re: #245 Gus 802
They're not the same. Then again you're probably studying this like you studied the "Climategate" data.
It redirects to the contest and donation page of the Democratic National Committee...
| 251 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:52:32am |
re: #250 Walter L. Newton
It redirects to the contest and donation page of the Democratic National Committee...
Like I said. It's not the same thing like that chain email. Simple as that.
| 252 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:53:33am |
re: #247 oaktree
My bet is that the impasse will be broken when I open up a can of tuna. I get these periodic hunger strikes regarding the food brand and flavor they normally get fed. A change of pace with some tuna or freshly cooked chicken, and then they will settle back to the same food routine.
A balancing act between my annoyance at getting pestered for food by the two cats and my annoyance at throwing out food that they eat one bite of and then ignore. (And they wolfed the same stuff down a day or two before...)
I'm sure this is getting me a downding on the Feline Overlord performance review in any case.
ADD is the feline Kryptonite.
| 253 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:54:42am |
re: #251 Gus 802
Like I said. It's not the same thing like that chain email. Simple as that.
Bullshit... this is the link in the email...
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
Click on it and it redirects to...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
| 254 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:55:32am |
re: #207 Walter L. Newton
Actually, what's really right on about that email is this:
A Supreme Court decision I strongly disagree with has shifted the balance of power in our elections from folks like you to giant corporations. Their massive spending on attack ads could have a real impact on who represents you at all levels of government. Only supporters like you -- and all the work you are doing -- are standing in their way.
That's enough to get $3 out of my pocket whether I get to meet Obama or not (which would be quite thrilling actually).
| 255 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:56:26am |
re: #253 Walter L. Newton
Bullshit... this is the link in the email...
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
Click on it and it redirects to...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
The link in the email are the same. So what. The wording in the email is not the same as what you will find in both links. That email is something else altogether.
| 256 |
jaunte Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:56:39am |
The friends-of-Pam contingent is still grinding away in the Guardian comment thread:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
| 257 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:56:45am |
Walter, is your objection that paying money to meet politicians makes the pols look cheap, or is it that $3 is an insufficiently large amount of money to keep the unwashed hordes at bay?
Because $500-a-pop meet and greets have been going on since the dawn of time.
| 258 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:57:18am |
Whoa! Dayum. I have just realised that despite the use of the word "footballs", this site has nothing to do with the sports!!!!.
I feel misled and used.
| 259 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:57:22am |
re: #255 Gus 802
The link in the email are the same. So what. The wording in the email is not the same as what you will find in both links. That email is something else altogether.
Go ahead and play stupid... I don't care.
| 260 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:58:06am |
re: #259 Walter L. Newton
Go ahead and play stupid... I don't care.
Yep. Stupid as Weasel Zippers and Whizbang Blog. You're in good company there.
| 261 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:59:04am |
re: #257 iossarian
Walter, is your objection that paying money to meet politicians makes the pols look cheap, or is it that $3 is an insufficiently large amount of money to keep the unwashed hordes at bay?
Because $500-a-pop meet and greets have been going on since the dawn of time.
Neither... I posted it to annoy you.
| 262 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:59:19am |
I have just input "Frank Zappa" into Pandora Radio. Stand by for liftoff - first song is Yellow Snow
| 263 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 8:59:26am |
I'm curious. Who else is outraged about the $3.00 chance to meet the President? Don't feel like searching the usual suspected sites at this time (first cup not finished)
| 265 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:00:12am |
re: #254 marjoriemoon
Actually, what's really right on about that email is this:
That's enough to get $3 out of my pocket whether I get to meet Obama or not (which would be quite thrilling actually).
No one else gets a kick whenever the guy who spent almost a billion dollars in his election complains about other people spending money?
| 266 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:00:33am |
re: #261 Walter L. Newton
Neither... I posted it to annoy you.
TROLL!!!
/////
Sorry, I get hit with that here almost everytime I pop in.
| 267 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:02:12am |
re: #262 imp_62
I have just input "Frank Zappa" into Pandora Radio. Stand by for liftoff - first song is Yellow Snow
Second song: Jimi Hendrix' Country Blues. Have I blown up Pandora and the Music Genome Project?
| 268 |
jaunte Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:02:24am |
re: #263 Stanley Sea
Orly Taitz, Esq. is one [Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
but you have to scroll down past her donations button.
| 269 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:02:49am |
re: #208 imp_62
Hehe. Whenever I am asked for a name when I make an order somewhere, I use the name of the person taking the order (from the name tag). Always amusing to see the reaction.
When waiting to get a table at a restaurant, I invariably give my name as "Donner", just so I can get them to announce, "Donner Party, your table is ready".
| 270 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:02:51am |
Variant on "Yo Mama" jokes: Obama's so cheap he...
As in:
Obama's so cheap, he'll meet with people who can't afford $500 to attend a silver service hosted fundraiser!
OK, not very funny...
re: #265 RogueOne
No one else gets a kick whenever the guy who spent almost a billion dollars in his election complains about other people spending money?
The key word is "people" (as opposed to "corporations"). You're missing another key word as well, which is "traceable".
| 271 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:03:03am |
re: #266 filetandrelease
TROLL!!!
///
Sorry, I get hit with that here almost everytime I pop in.
Go for it... the word is so misused and abused that it barely carries any meaning anymore. But it makes certain people feel clever and all warm and fuzzy when they are being a part of all the commotion
| 272 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:03:14am |
re: #268 jaunte
Orly Taitz, Esq. is one [Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
but you have to scroll down past her donations button.
Sproink!
| 273 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:03:17am |
OMFGZ!
Got this, among dozens of others like it, from my dad....I deleted the several hundred gullible people's email addresses as well as the bullshit stuff...but I thought Walter might want to start this one anew as it pretty much says it all...whatever all is.
-------Original Message-------
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: GRRRRRRRRRR..!!!!! I AM MAD AND YOU WILL BE TOO
----
KEEP THIS BABY MOVIN!!
OK, I did my part. Now You FIRE this around the world to everybody you know.
GRRRRRRRRRR.....!
I'm MAD AND YOU WILL BE TOO!
Your U.S. House & Senate have voted themselves
1. They voted to not give you
2. Your Medicare premiums will
3. Over 2-yrs The House & Senate
4. Do you feel SCREWED?
5. WILL your cost of drugs - doctor fees - local taxes - food, etc., increase? You better believe they will!
WILL THEIRS? NO WAY .. They have a raise and better benefits. Why care about you? You never did anything about it in the past.
You're obviously too stupid or don't care. No offense; just making a point!
6. Do you really think that Nancy, Harry, Chris, Charlie, Barnie, et al, care about you?
SEND THE MESSAGE-- You're FIRED.
IN 2010 YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET RID OF THE SITTING CONGRESS, THAT IS 1/3 OF THE SENATE,
AND 100% OF THE HOUSE.
MAKE SURE YOU'RE STILL MAD IN NOVEMBER 2010 AND TELL THEIR REPLACEMENTS NOT TO SCREW UP.
It is ok to forward this to your sphere of influence if you are finally tired of the abuse.
Maybe it's time for the........
28th Amendment
"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United
States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives,
and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or
Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the
United States "
Let's get this passed around, folks - these people in Washington have brought this upon themselves!!! It's time for retribution. Let's take back America .
If you don't forward this to all your friends you're just part of the problem of national apathy
| 274 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:04:00am |
re: #269 negativ
When waiting to get a table at a restaurant, I invariably give my name as "Donner", just so I can get them to announce, "Donner Party, your table is ready".
Laughed out loud at this.
| 275 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:04:13am |
re: #257 iossarian
Walter, is your objection that paying money to meet politicians makes the pols look cheap, or is it that $3 is an insufficiently large amount of money to keep the unwashed hordes at bay?
Because $500-a-pop meet and greets have been going on since the dawn of time.
Absolutely. Meanwhile the Right calls us "elitists" while in reality, the party wants the government to be accessible to all. You don't have to contribute $500 to make a difference.
I don't think the email is cheap at all. It's kind of a callback to the time when I was a little person and our parents told us "even you could be president one day."
| 276 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:04:15am |
re: #263 Stanley Sea
The real question is how much for a stay in the Lincoln Bedroom...
| 277 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:04:18am |
re: #270 iossarian
Variant on "Yo Mama" jokes: Obama's so cheap he...
As in:
Obama's so cheap, he'll meet with people who can't afford $500 to attend a silver service hosted fundraiser!
OK, not very funny...
The key word is "people" (as opposed to "corporations"). You're missing another key word as well, which is "traceable".
////Haven't you heard, corporations are people now!
| 278 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:04:37am |
re: #268 jaunte
Orly Taitz, Esq. is one [Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
but you have to scroll down past her donations button.
Another one who needs a cami bikini and a firearm.
| 279 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:05:02am |
re: #265 RogueOne
No one else gets a kick whenever the guy who spent almost a billion dollars in his election complains about other people spending money?
Ack. Can you reword that?
| 280 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:05:05am |
re: #276 lawhawk
The real question is how much for a stay in the Lincoln Bedroom...
Best way to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom is to lock the door and not come out.
| 281 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:06:18am |
re: #277 jamesfirecat
///Haven't you heard, corporations are people now!
Working in the higher education industry, it kills me that the foundational SC decision that started the whole "corporations are people too!" nonsense involved Dartmouth College (I believe), when they wanted to hang on to donations after the deaths of their original board members.
| 282 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:08:13am |
re: #268 jaunte
Orly Taitz, Esq. is one [Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
but you have to scroll down past her donations button.
aahahaaaa
| 283 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:08:39am |
re: #262 imp_62
I have just input "Frank Zappa" into Pandora Radio. Stand by for liftoff - first song is Yellow Snow
Nah, liftoff is if/when it plays Echidna's Arf, Drowning Witch, King Kong, Inca Roads, or Put a Motor In Yourself.
| 284 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:09:09am |
re: #279 marjoriemoon
Ack. Can you reword that?
It amuses me to hear the man who spent almost a trillion dollars in an election complain about about money corrupting elections.
| 285 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:09:11am |
re: #273 darthstar
OMFGZ!
Got this, among dozens of others like it, from my dad...I deleted the several hundred gullible people's email addresses as well as the bullshit stuff...but I thought Walter might want to start this one anew as it pretty much says it all...whatever all is.
---Original Message---Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: GRRR..!!! I AM MAD AND YOU WILL BE TOO
---
KEEP THIS BABY MOVIN!!OK, I did my part. Now You FIRE this around the world to everybody you know.
GRRR...!
I'm MAD AND YOU WILL BE TOO!
...
Holy. Shit. I just figured out what Obama and the rest of the socialist Healthcare Deformers are up to. They want to make old people so angry they have massive coronary events and drop dead before they use up too much Medicare.
Death Panels! Sekrit Muslims! Black Helicopters! (oh, strike that last, it's just Palin shooting wolves)
| 286 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:09:20am |
re: #282 Stanley Sea
aahahaaa
This is too funny. They even signed it as being from Barack Obama.
Please donate $3 or more to be automatically entered to win a trip to Las Vegas to meet me backstage:
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
I hope to see you out there,
President Barack Obama
| 287 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:09:49am |
By the way, the whole "Obama shouldn't spend campaign money because he wants to tighten campaign finance regulation" argument is false in the same way that the "people who benefit from government healthcare are hypocritical for calling for the abolition of said healthcare" is false.
Those people are not hypocritical - opposing a program does not mean that you cannot benefit from it while it exists (though one could argue that these people don't fully realize the implications of their position). In the same way, Obama has to play the game by the current rules, even though he would like to change those rules eventually.
| 288 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:09:51am |
re: #276 lawhawk
The real question is how much for a stay in the Lincoln Bedroom...
I think that's set in an old CFR.
| 289 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:10:03am |
re: #286 Gus 802
Why would they stop short of that lie, when they're already lying?
| 290 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:11:58am |
re: #282 Stanley Sea
aahahaaa
I finally clicked through to the link of the obama donations page. At the very bottom it says:
"Powered by Hope". Hahahahahaha, people are so gullible.
| 291 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:12:24am |
CNN - keeping "Man up Harry Reid" quote from Angle on the screen for the entire three minute segment on last night's debate.
| 292 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:12:31am |
re: #284 RogueOne
It amuses me to hear the man who spent almost a trillion dollars in an election complain about about money corrupting elections.
Hell, you're only off by a factor of 1500. For you, that's basically dead-on accurate.
| 293 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:13:22am |
re: #292 Obdicut
Hell, you're only off by a factor of 1500. For you, that's basically dead-on accurate.
your factor key is screwed up. He spent 3/4 of a trillion. 3/4's is "almost" in my book.
| 294 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:13:25am |
re: #290 RogueOne
What does it say on the GOP website: "Powered by donations from foreign corporations that benefit from the offshoring of US jobs"?
I think "Powered by Hope" has a bit of a ring to it, myself.
| 295 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:14:06am |
| 296 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:14:08am |
re: #290 RogueOne
I finally clicked through to the link of the obama donations page. At the very bottom it says:
"Powered by Hope". Hahahahahaha, people are so gullible.
I need to see my ophthalmologist. I thought it said "Powered by Dope".
| 297 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:14:17am |
re: #289 Obdicut
Why would they stop short of that lie, when they're already lying?
Seriously. The only explanation I can see is that one individual got a little over zealous. There is a contest to meet the president back stage but the rules are completely different at the Organizing for America site. I think this is yet another case of wingers making things seem worse than they really are in real time.
| 299 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:14:34am |
re: #290 RogueOne
I finally clicked through to the link of the obama donations page. At the very bottom it says:
"Powered by Hope". Hahahahahaha, people are so gullible.
Didn't you know the E in PG&E stood for Espere?
| 301 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:15:28am |
re: #294 iossarian
What does it say on the GOP website: "Powered by donations from foreign corporations that benefit from the offshoring of US jobs"?
I think "Powered by Hope" has a bit of a ring to it, myself.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting. he needs to put "freedom" in there somewhere. Powered by Hope and Freedom.
and pie, apple pie.
| 302 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:16:46am |
re: #253 Walter L. Newton
Bullshit... this is the link in the email...
[Link: my.democrats.org...]
Click on it and it redirects to...
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]
You do have to admit that it's nice that they're allowing the hoi polloi to attempt to gain access to the President. It's usually limited to those big donors and corporate CEO types.
/(half)
| 303 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:17:22am |
re: #284 RogueOne
It amuses me to hear the man who spent almost a trillion dollars in an election complain about about money corrupting elections.
Who? Obama spent a trillion? They all have to spend big money. How much did McCain spend?
It's not the money as much as the source. Iossarian had your answer. Campaign finance reform is something we've been going on about for over a century and unfortunately, with this last legislation, they're farther away from getting it right.
| 304 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:18:20am |
re: #235 Gus 802
I'm going to call bullshit on this one. If anyone wants more information it's out there.
re: #297 Gus 802
Seriously. The only explanation I can see is that one individual got a little over zealous. There is a contest to meet the president back stage but the rules are completely different at the Organizing for America site. I think this is yet another case of wingers making things seem worse than they really are in real time.
Up next... ?
| 305 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:18:58am |
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
| 306 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:19:03am |
| 307 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:19:11am |
re: #303 marjoriemoon
No, no, pointing out that the GOP is backed by foreign corporations that benefit from offshoring US jobs is a distraction from the real economic issue of why so many US jobs are being offshored. /
| 308 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:20:53am |
re: #305 Walter L. Newton
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
Eleventy!
| 309 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:21:08am |
re: #303 marjoriemoon
I meant "b"-trillion or billion. My "powered by caffeine, nicotine, and hope" button wasn't working correctly.
1. The source doesn't matter to me, I'm more interested in the actual argument not who paid for it.
2. Campaign finance laws have a tendency to step all over the first amendment which I believe protects political speech above all else.
| 310 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:21:15am |
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 311 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:22:00am |
re: #307 iossarian
And again: Not just the GOP. If the GOP does head into the political hinterlands after this election as so many people think, you can expect the Chamber of Commerce and other lobbying groups to spend the lavish sums on Democrats, picking the ones most favorable to offshoring, anti-labor attitudes, deregulation, etc.
The problem does not lie in the GOP alone; the problem lies, at the root, at giving money unlimited access to politics.
| 312 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:22:37am |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
I hope they are able to ignore all the TXTs coming from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
| 313 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:22:41am |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Yep...just send a text message....what exactly is your malfunction today, Walter? Did President Obama call you too early to wake you up?
| 314 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:23:10am |
NYTimes
According to an e-mail announcing the contest, three lucky winners will meet the president at the rally, where Mr. Obama hopes he can energize Democrats on behalf of embattled Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader.
The three winners will be awarded round-trip airfare to Las Vegas valued at $1,100 and will be given a one-night stay at a hotel valued at about $100. As Mark Knoller of CBS News first pointed out, the approximate value of the meeting with Mr. Obama is given at $0.00.
This is not the first time the Democrats have auctioned off time with Mr. Obama as a fund-raising gimmick.
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 315 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:23:18am |
re: #312 Buck
I hope they are able to ignore all the TXTs coming from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Funny...but it's good your here, Buck. Walter needs a like mind on his side.
| 316 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:24:04am |
re: #312 Buck
You do realize that this point goes directly against Rogue's claim that "it doesn't matter where the money comes from - I'm just interested in the arguments"?
| 317 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:24:05am |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
Thank you for helping to clear up the lies and distortions that were in the initial email that you posted, Walter. It's nice to see you acknowledging that you made big mistake.
I'm sure Obama is happy that you're repeatedly posting his website and a link to a twitter from his campaign, but I'm really unsure why you're being so helpful to him.
| 318 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:24:48am |
re: #317 Obdicut
Thank you for helping to clear up the lies and distortions that were in the initial email that you posted, Walter. It's nice to see you acknowledging that you made big mistake.
I'm sure Obama is happy that you're repeatedly posting his website and a link to a twitter from his campaign, but I'm really unsure why you're being so helpful to him.
Why are you lying again?
| 319 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:24:51am |
re: #107 freetoken
Anyone with an internet connection has no excuse anymore to remain ignorant about nearly any subject. It's amazing at what one can find online besides Pr0n.
I'm skeptical about MIT's ability to produce quality porn. /
| 321 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:25:53am |
re: #317 Obdicut
Thank you for helping to clear up the lies and distortions that were in the initial email that you posted, Walter. It's nice to see you acknowledging that you made big mistake.
I'm sure Obama is happy that you're repeatedly posting his website and a link to a twitter from his campaign, but I'm really unsure why you're being so helpful to him.
Seriously, I'm donating my $3.00. See you in Vegas!
| 322 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:25:53am |
| 323 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:26:23am |
re: #322 Walter L. Newton
I asked you first... answer the question.
I didn't lie, so your question makes no sense.
Where'd I lie, Walter?
| 324 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:26:28am |
re: #316 iossarian
You do realize that this point goes directly against Rogue's claim that "it doesn't matter where the money comes from - I'm just interested in the arguments"?
It's not a claim, it's reality. I don't care who advised the president on his stances anymore than I care who advised Cheney on his energy plan. Who gives a crap, really? I'd rather argue about the actual bills, not who came up with the original idea.
| 325 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:27:05am |
re: #323 Obdicut
I didn't lie, so your question makes no sense.
Where'd I lie, Walter?
It does make sense... you just can't answer it. Twice you tried, and failed. Going for a third time? (reply in 5,4,3,2,1...)
| 326 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:27:24am |
re: #312 Buck
I hope they are able to ignore all the TXTs coming from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
He's not one of us! He's the enemy y y y y y y y y
Good grief.
| 327 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:27:27am |
re: #324 RogueOne
If you came across a group that was running anti-Israel ads, would you be interested in finding out where they got their money?
| 328 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:27:45am |
re: #325 Walter L. Newton
It does make sense... you just can't answer it. Twice you tried, and failed. Going for a third time? (reply in 5,4,3,2,1...)
No, Walter. I didn't lie, and you claiming that I did, is, shockingly, a lie on your part.
You can prove me wrong, by showing where I lied.
| 329 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:28:02am |
Ah, just like old times. It's the morning wingnut wave.
FCBHO!!11ty
/
| 330 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:28:31am |
re: #329 Gus 802
Ah, just like old times. It's the morning wingnut wave.
FCBHO!!11ty
/
Enjoy... tingle down your leg again?
| 331 |
bratwurst Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:29:09am |
re: #315 darthstar
Funny...but it's good your here, Buck. Walter needs a like mind on his side.
We should all be grateful that Buck was able to tear himself away from monitoring what did and didn't cause people to walk off of The View.
| 332 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:29:28am |
re: #329 Gus 802
Ah, just like old times. It's the morning wingnut wave.
FCBHO!!11ty
/
Yep...Obdicut's been sucked into one of Walter's unescapable answer a question with a question vortexes.
| 333 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:30:02am |
re: #331 bratwurst
We should all be grateful that Buck was able to tear himself away from monitoring what did and didn't cause people to walk off of The View.
And his taking a break from his campaign against Bennett.
| 334 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:30:16am |
re: #326 Stanley Sea
He's not one of us! He's the enemy y y y
Good grief.
That is NOT what I said. What I joked about was that terrorists (who have lately come from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) would love to be backstage with the President.
Asshole.
| 335 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:30:17am |
Let’s get the easy part out of the way first: Sharron Angle won The Big Debate.
[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]
| 336 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:30:22am |
re: #327 iossarian
If you came across a group that was running anti-Israel ads, would you be interested in finding out where they got their money?
Not sure what that issue would have to do with a US election but I'll play.... No. A bad argument can be slapped around on its own without needing to know who paid for it before making up my mind on the issue.
| 337 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:31:00am |
re: #330 Walter L. Newton
Enjoy... tingle down your leg again?
It's "tingle up your leg" - aka sexual stimulation. Tingle down your leg is simply a lack of bladder control.
| 338 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:31:22am |
“After watching the Nevada Senate debate I really wish that what happens in Vegas could stay in Vegas.”
[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]
LOL...
| 339 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:31:39am |
re: #337 darthstar
It's "tingle up your leg" - aka sexual stimulation. Tingle down your leg is simply a lack of bladder control.
That was my point!
| 340 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:31:40am |
| 342 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:32:03am |
re: #335 Walter L. Newton
Let’s get the easy part out of the way first: Sharron Angle won The Big Debate.
[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]
Fuck it. I hope Mitch McConnell enjoys having to talk to her on a daily basis.
| 343 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:32:17am |
| 344 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:32:22am |
re: #336 RogueOne
Not sure what that issue would have to do with a US election but I'll play... No. A bad argument can be slapped around on its own without needing to know who paid for it before making up my mind on the issue.
Well, my point was that (for example) you could have attack ads against a pro-Israel candidate, funded by nefarious organizations that have the destruction of Israel as their goal.
The arguments might not even be about Israel. They might be about other aspects of the campaign.
I don't think there are many people on here who would stick to the "it's irrelevant where the money comes from" line in this case, but kudos to you for being consistent.
| 345 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:32:23am |
re: #334 Buck
That is NOT what I said. What I joked about was that terrorists (who have lately come from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) would love to be backstage with the President.
Asshole.
Oh OK. My morning is complete.
| 346 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:32:50am |
re: #316 iossarian
You do realize that this point goes directly against Rogue's claim that "it doesn't matter where the money comes from - I'm just interested in the arguments"?
No it doesn't. I don't think my post has anything to do with money. That is where your mind went all by itself.
| 347 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:33:29am |
re: #343 Fozzie Bear
Yeah transparency in political propaganda is for pussies. /
That's a bit of a deflection. Do you need to know who paid for an ad before deciding whether you agree or not?
| 348 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:34:48am |
Yep. Cheering on Sharron Angle. After all, denialists of a feather flock together. Indeed it's true. Harry Reid sucked last night and Sharron Angle was able to be heard by all of the old farts that were listening to the debate in Nevada last night.
Help is on the way folks! Sharron Angle will become Senator of Las Vegas! Free money is on the way!
| 349 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:35:01am |
I never thought I would actually see people openly advocating for secrecy in the financing of political propaganda.
If Obama called you handsome, would you shoot yourself in the face to make sure he is proven wrong?
| 350 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:35:07am |
re: #346 Buck
In that case, I genuinely don't understand what your post was about. I thought you were saying that it would be a problem if there was a large amount of support for Obama from Saudi Arabia, presumably because the Saudis are generally a pretty unpleasant bunch.
| 351 |
Stanghazi Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:35:09am |
re: #347 RogueOne
That's a bit of a deflection. Do you need to know who paid for an ad before deciding whether you agree or not?
I'll pipe in, what you have to do now-a-days is FACT CHECK the ad. Then if it's false, find out who's behind the lie and why.
Yes, it takes a bit of time, but you know, an informed electorate is a good thing.
| 352 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:35:58am |
re: #347 RogueOne
That's a false dichotomy. You can both be interested in who is pushing an ad, and what the ad says. Especially if the ad contains claims about facts and figures.
If the ad is coming from the Brotherhood of Young Flat-Earth Creationists, I'll take any claims in the data with a truckload of salt.
If the the ad is coming from the American Physical Society, I'll give the data a lot more credence.
Does that make sense to you?
| 353 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:36:36am |
| 354 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:36:40am |
IMHO - not wanting to be supplied with a line of text in the very final second of a television advert in 11pt font is a vote for ignorance.
Why do you not want to know who is promoting political candidates or ideologies in adverts?. What advantage is to be gained in ignorance?.
| 355 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:36:40am |
Well... I worked a full overnight shift last night, had to fill in for the vacationing overnight clerk... and then I went to the gym on the way home, and this old wrinkled conservative is tired... and doesn't want to play anymore.
Sorry that Obdicut is spinning in the question vortex, Darthstar, I think Angle is a nut case too... but Harry still stunk, Rogue One, well, you keep hanging in there, Buck... it's fucking idiot conservatives like you that will continue to try to ruin the GOP... get out before you loose all your brain cells... and Gus... work on the Google Fu... it failed you this morning...
Nap time.
| 356 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:37:37am |
re: #349 Fozzie Bear
I never thought I would actually see people openly advocating for secrecy in the financing of political propaganda.
If Obama called you handsome, would you shoot yourself in the face to make sure he is proven wrong?
rofl Stop! You're killing me!
| 357 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:37:55am |
re: #347 RogueOne
That's a bit of a deflection. Do you need to know who paid for an ad before deciding whether you agree or not?
Yes.
| 358 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:38:13am |
re: #355 Walter L. Newton
Well... I worked a full overnight shift last night, had to fill in for the vacationing overnight clerk... and then I went to the gym on the way home, and this old wrinkled conservative is tired... and doesn't want to play anymore.
Sorry that Obdicut is spinning in the question vortex, Darthstar, I think Angle is a nut case too... but Harry still stunk, Rogue One, well, you keep hanging in there, Buck... it's fucking idiot conservatives like you that will continue to try to ruin the GOP... get out before you loose all your brain cells... and Gus... work on the Google Fu... it failed you this morning...
Nap time.
Wow...you really are tired. Sweet dreams.
| 359 |
shutdown Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:38:24am |
Ok, folks. I have some stuff to do. My daughter is coming home form college for the first time and need to get some work done, too.
| 360 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:39:29am |
re: #355 Walter L. Newton
Well... I worked a full overnight shift last night, had to fill in for the vacationing overnight clerk... and then I went to the gym on the way home, and this old wrinkled conservative is tired... and doesn't want to play anymore.
Sorry that Obdicut is spinning in the question vortex, Darthstar, I think Angle is a nut case too... but Harry still stunk, Rogue One, well, you keep hanging in there, Buck... it's fucking idiot conservatives like you that will continue to try to ruin the GOP... get out before you loose all your brain cells... and Gus... work on the Google Fu... it failed you this morning...
Nap time.
And Obdicut... thanks for the down ding... proves over and over what I've said... you are beret of any sense of humor... so sad.
| 361 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:39:38am |
re: #359 imp_62
daughter is coming home form college
open wallet......... say good bye.......... ;-)
| 362 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:41:08am |
re: #350 iossarian
In that case, I genuinely don't understand what your post was about. I thought you were saying that it would be a problem if there was a large amount of support for Obama from Saudi Arabia, presumably because the Saudis are generally a pretty unpleasant bunch.
Did you bother to see what the link I was referring to said?
Text “BACKSTAGE” to 62262 for a chance to meet President Obama backstage in Las Vegas
So why would some people in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan want to be backstage with the President? Does it make ANY sense to infer that that people from those countries would really be backstage to adore the President?
| 363 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:41:10am |
re: #360 Walter L. Newton
And Obdicut... thanks for the down ding... proves over and over what I've said... you are beret of any sense of humor... so sad.
He is a humorless French hat?
| 364 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:41:56am |
| 365 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:42:00am |
re: #360 Walter L. Newton
And Obdicut... thanks for the down ding... proves over and over what I've said... you are beret of any sense of humor... so sad.
There really isn't any humor of just accusing me of lying over and over without any actual demonstration of such.
I do also think it's funny you got so angry right after I made a humorous comment about how you were unintentionally promoting Obama; that this then eventually leads to you accusing me of lacking a sense of humor is double-stuffed-with-irony funny.
Have a good nap.
| 366 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:42:07am |
re: #355 Walter L. Newton
Well... I worked a full overnight shift last night, had to fill in for the vacationing overnight clerk... and then I went to the gym on the way home, and this old wrinkled conservative is tired... and doesn't want to play anymore.
Sorry that Obdicut is spinning in the question vortex, Darthstar, I think Angle is a nut case too... but Harry still stunk, Rogue One, well, you keep hanging in there, Buck... it's fucking idiot conservatives like you that will continue to try to ruin the GOP... get out before you loose all your brain cells... and Gus... work on the Google Fu... it failed you this morning...
Nap time.
Well, at least you acknowledge that Buck is a "fucking idiot." My only point about the raffle was that the email sounds bogus. It's not authored by Obama and the plea for 3 dollars does not match the official rules. Something is not right there.
| 367 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:42:16am |
re: #363 Fozzie Bear
He is a humorless French hat?
That reminds me of my favorite Elton John album, "Honky Chapeau"
| 369 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:44:18am |
General says Clinton aide suggested letting Iraq shoot down a US plane as a pretext for war
True or not, at least Alex Jones and the Paulians now have some new material, and that's the important thing.
| 370 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:44:19am |
re: #351 Stanley Sea
That's a good argument but I disagree.
If I disagree with a position or an argument being made by a candidate I find, for me, that it's good enough to slap down a bad argument. If Candidate A has a position I disagree with then I tend to focus on that position. It doesn't matter to me where or how they came up with their policy ideals. I think people want to know who is paying for a message so they can skip the actual argument and go straight to the demonization.
For example, you might have noticed I felt the HCR and TARP bills were a bad idea. I expressed and argued that view without resorting to pointing out that Obama was given tens of millions in donations from Insurance/Financial institutions. A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of its origination. I think that when people jump ahead to demonization it shows the weakness of their argument. "You know who else thought gun laws were a good idea?"
| 371 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:44:34am |
This whole "I can make up my own mind without knowing who's trying to screw with me" thing is another example of a fairly reasonable concept (in this case self-reliance) taken to an extreme, at which point it makes no sense at all.
Of course, you'll hopefully be able to decide on the merits of an argument for yourself. Especially if you're well-informed to begin with.
But why would you just throw out the extra information, that might alert you to the fact that someone is trying to pull a fast one. I mean, if you were traveling to a foreign country, and a friend of yours who'd been there before offered to go with you and show you around, would you turn them down on the basis that you'd be able to work things out perfectly well by yourself?
Everything in moderation, people.
re: #362 Buck
Did you bother to see what the link I was referring to said?
So why would some people in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan want to be backstage with the President? Does it make ANY sense to infer that that people from those countries would really be backstage to adore the President?
Oh, OK. Sorry I misunderstood - I thought you were talking about the source of money from the text campaign (it is a not unfamiliar claim that Obama in particular, and left wing politicians in general, are supported by terrorist groups).
| 372 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:45:37am |
re: #325 Walter L. Newton
It does make sense... you just can't answer it. Twice you tried, and failed. Going for a third time? (reply in 5,4,3,2,1...)
///When did you stop beating your wife?
| 373 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:46:23am |
Yo Buck! If you down ding 62,873 of my comments we'll have equal Karma!
//
| 374 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:46:34am |
re: #371 iossarian
it is a not unfamiliar claim that Obama in particular, and left wing politicians in general, are supported by terrorist groups.
Never heard that or seen it.
| 375 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:46:52am |
re: #352 Obdicut
re: #353 marjoriemoon
Did you notice that both of you went straight through to "hidden agenda"? I take politicians at their words most often than not. Not because I'm naive but because that's the argument they're making. I don't try to read between the lines. If a candidate believes off shore drilling is bad/good I don't worry that they might have gotten that idea from environmental/oil groups.
| 376 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:47:43am |
re: #352 Obdicut
That's a false dichotomy. You can both be interested in who is pushing an ad, and what the ad says. Especially if the ad contains claims about facts and figures.
If the ad is coming from the Brotherhood of Young Flat-Earth Creationists, I'll take any claims in the data with a truckload of salt.
If the the ad is coming from the American Physical Society, I'll give the data a lot more credence.
Does that make sense to you?
If you know the ad is making a false argument, isn't that good enough?
| 377 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:48:38am |
re: #342 darthstar
I've got to give props to writer of that roundup (Jon Rolston) props for pulling a Warner Wolf quip - let's go to the videotape - in the course of his review of Angle's dissocation and cognitive dissonance from her prior positions and statements that are flat out contradictions with what she said at the debate.
Reid needed to show that Angle was a loon and out of touch with NV issues and national issues. He apparently didn't. If anything, his performance showed that he was out of touch with NV issues and put on condescending airs.
She needed to show that she was merely coherent and at least as coherent as Reid. She apparently did.
I'm surprised - as Ralston was - that Reid didn't slam her on the Sharia takeover of American BS. Was he pulling punches on purpose? Did his advisers say that it was a losing issue for him to address? It would be real interesting to dissect how and why he didn't go there - when it was so clearly an issue where Angle is just flat out wrong.
| 378 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:48:49am |
re: #375 RogueOne
re: #353 marjoriemoon
Did you notice that both of you went straight through to "hidden agenda"?
I didn't, actually. The Young Flat Earth Creationists have a very un-hidden agenda, as does the APS. Why do you call it a 'hidden agenda'.
Why did you just ignore the point about data? Could you address it?
| 379 |
jaunte Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:48:52am |
re: #369 negativ
General says Clinton aide suggested letting Iraq shoot down a US plane as a pretext for war
True or not, at least Alex Jones and the Paulians now have some new material, and that's the important thing.
Shelton would be more believable if he would name the cabinet member.
| 380 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:48:54am |
re: #374 Buck
Never heard that or seen it.
I have immense trouble believing that. This is the first link from Googling "obama support from iran":
[Link: www.woai.com...]
| 381 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:00am |
re: #378 Obdicut
I didn't, actually. The Young Flat Earth Creationists have a very un-hidden agenda, as does the APS. Why do you call it a 'hidden agenda'.
Why did you just ignore the point about data? Could you address it?
I didn't. If a candidate says he believes the earth is flat I don't really need to know who ponied up the cash before making a decision regarding his position.
| 382 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:02am |
re: #376 RogueOne
If you know the ad is making a false argument, isn't that good enough?
What if you're not 100% sure whether the argument is false or not?
Or are you saying that you are always able to make this determination?
| 383 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:12am |
re: #374 Buck
Never heard that or seen it.
Then I guess you were living in Mars during the 2008 election under a rock with your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears.
Does the phrase "Pal en around with terrorists" ring a bell?
| 384 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:43am |
re: #377 lawhawk
I thought he'd do that too. He could have simply pointed to a few of the things she's said recently and she would have unwound completely.
| 385 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:45am |
re: #210 imp_62
I made an order about an hour ago for a really beautiful Rosenthal challah knife (blue). Just telling you to make sure you get the credit.
Yes, saw it. Enjoy!
| 386 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:50:47am |
re: #376 RogueOne
If you know the ad is making a false argument, isn't that good enough?
No.
Because then you can avoid that group as a source of information from then on - and work out that if that group is lying in support of one candidate it all adds to the picture of an election campaign.
| 387 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:51:50am |
re: #386 wozzablog
No.
Because then you can avoid that group as a source of information from then on - and work out that if that group is lying in support of one candidate it all adds to the picture of an election campaign.
Using the full power of human reason to make complex judgements about political issues is socialist and un-American!
| 388 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:51:50am |
re: #368 Gus 802
Now Buck will respond by down dinging everything I said!
lol
You know you downdinged me first, and you do it all the time. no matter what I post.
You complain about it, but it is transparent how you do it.
| 389 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:51:55am |
re: #382 iossarian
are you saying that you are always able to make this determination?
Rogue is not known for his lack of self certainty.
| 390 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:51:58am |
re: #376 RogueOne
If you know the ad is making a false argument, isn't that good enough?
The argument may depend on the data presented in the ad.
For example, during the Arizona immigration bill bit, a lot of ads talked about the skyrocketing crime rate in Arizona, that turned out to be a complete fiction. A lot of groups were pressing that dishonest meme.
So, having understood that, it's rational for me to treat further data, or ads, or arguments, presented by those groups as more suspect than those coming from groups who have been, in my experience, honest.
Your argument might make a lick of sense if it were true that every individual has total knowledge of the truth of all data, but that is not the case; one of the proxy ways we have of analyzing sources is their past performance and honesty.
Can you explain why you think that you shouldn't discern between data based on the credibility of the source? How else does one discern between data?
| 391 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:52:24am |
re: #387 iossarian
I knew i was going about it back asswards.
| 392 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:53:01am |
re: #388 Buck
You know you downdinged me first, and you do it all the time. no matter what I post.
You complain about it, but it is transparent how you do it.
Right. I down ding everything you post. Bologna. You're just so predictable.
| 393 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:53:02am |
re: #383 jamesfirecat
Then I guess you were living in Mars during the 2008 election under a rock with your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears.
Does the phrase "Pal en around with terrorists" ring a bell?
That was NOT saudi or Pak..... it was a local known terrorist. AND we know full well that HE supports Obama.
| 394 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:54:06am |
re: #393 Buck
That was NOT saudi or Pak... it was a local known terrorist. AND we know full well that HE supports Obama.
Comedy.
BBIAB.
| 395 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:54:33am |
re: #393 Buck
soooooooo.... you are saying that you are familiar with the idea that terrorists support democrats?.......................
| 396 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:54:41am |
re: #393 Buck
That was NOT saudi or Pak... it was a local known terrorist. AND we know full well that HE supports Obama.
Well, I support Obama and I'm NOT a terrorist, so I cancel out Ayers. So there.
| 397 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:54:59am |
re: #393 Buck
That was NOT saudi or Pak... it was a local known terrorist. AND we know full well that HE supports Obama.
Except that he was no longer a terrorist by the time Obama got to know him....
| 398 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:55:18am |
Political ads are propaganda, in the sense that they are carefully packaged information designed to elicit a particular action from the audience. In the case of political ads, the particular action elicited is voting for/against candidates. Propaganda does work. The more money you have to spend on placing that propaganda in front of the eyes of the target audience, the more people will vote the way you want them to. This is simply a fact. Votes can be bought, easily. It just takes money.
Whether the arguments made in a political ad are false or not is irrelevant to the efficacy of the ads. ALL that matters is how well-crafted the propaganda is, and how wide an audience sees it.
I just happen to think it is important to know who is buying votes for whom, why, and for how much. Call me crazy, but I think transparency in political funding is absolutely essential to the functioning of a democratic republic. We no longer have that in the US. This is a huge problem, and it is incredibly obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about the political process.
| 399 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:56:07am |
re: #398 Fozzie Bear
I just happen to think it is important to know who is buying votes for whom, why, and for how much. Call me crazy, but I think transparency in political funding is absolutely essential to the functioning of a democratic republic. We no longer have that in the US. This is a huge problem, and it is incredibly obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about the political process.
A thousand times this. Really BBIAB now.
| 401 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:57:04am |
re: #382 iossarian
What if you're not 100% sure whether the argument is false or not?
Or are you saying that you are always able to make this determination?
I know what I believe about the issues. I tend to vote for people who hold the same views, depending on what issues I put at the top of my list during that cycle. I almost completely ignore attack ads. I say "almost" because candidates facing a tough time are the ones who generally go on the attack. Seeing one candidate attack the other tells me they think their chances of getting elected aren't very good.
I guess I'm more focused on their philosophy and previous experience than their specifics. Personally I think campaign promises are worthless pandering.
| 402 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:58:00am |
| 403 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:58:47am |
re: #398 Fozzie Bear
Political ads are propaganda, in the sense that they are carefully packaged information designed to elicit a particular action from the audience. In the case of political ads, the particular action elicited is voting for/against candidates. Propaganda does work. The more money you have to spend on placing that propaganda in front of the eyes of the target audience, the more people will vote the way you want them to. This is simply a fact. Votes can be bought, easily. It just takes money.
Whether the arguments made in a political ad are false or not is irrelevant to the efficacy of the ads. ALL that matters is how well-crafted the propaganda is, and how wide an audience sees it.
I just happen to think it is important to know who is buying votes for whom, why, and for how much. Call me crazy, but I think transparency in political funding is absolutely essential to the functioning of a democratic republic. We no longer have that in the US. This is a huge problem, and it is incredibly obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about the political process.
oh get with the program, wanting knowledge about corporations trying to buy votes against your best interest is sooooooo last century....i mean, information is completely superfluous to the political process - as we all know you should have instant access to every fact ever already in your head without recourse to any sort of external stimuli.......
| 404 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:59:42am |
re: #403 wozzablog
What your saying is that I should be more concerned with where the president gets his campaign dollars than I am about his message. Right?
| 405 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:00:15am |
re: #404 RogueOne
What your saying is that I should be more concerned with where the president gets his campaign dollars than I am about his message. Right?
Do you own stock in False Dichotomies, Inc?
| 406 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:00:26am |
re: #404 RogueOne
What your saying is that I should be more concerned with where the president gets his campaign dollars than I am about his message. Right?
You should be concerned about both. You should also be concerned about the role of false dichotomies in your decision-making process.
| 407 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:01:15am |
re: #393 Buck
That was NOT saudi or Pak... it was a local known terrorist. AND we know full well that HE supports Obama.
Karl Marx admired Abraham Lincoln. So does that mean Abraham Lincoln admired Karl Marx?
| 408 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:02:11am |
re: #404 RogueOne
What your saying is that I should be more concerned with where the president gets his campaign dollars than I am about his message. Right?
if you want to know then you should be able to find out.
and?
| 410 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:03:17am |
re: #405 Obdicut
re: #406 Fozzie Bear
You both have been telling me I'm going through my decision making process in the wrong way. My belief that HCR is a bad idea shouldn't be based on facts alone but it should also be based on who gave money to the president in order for him to make his argument. How is that a false dichotomy? If I need to worry about sourcing for candidate A why not Candidate B too? Or is it that only one view needs to be sorted out while those views you agree with should get a pass?
| 411 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:04:05am |
| 412 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:04:49am |
If you advocate for secrecy in politics, you are advocating for your own ignorance. Literally.
| 413 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:05:02am |
If I need to worry about sourcing for candidate A why not Candidate B too?
Heh. You just don't understand that we're saying that yes, it's perfectly fine to also be concerned with who gave money to the president.
I know it's hard to grasp.
| 414 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:05:56am |
re: #408 wozzablog
Campaign finance law isn't an issue I care that deeply about that I'm not open to compromise. If they want to pass a law that says unlimited donations and unlimited access to records I could go along with that.
| 415 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:06:01am |
re: #398 Fozzie Bear
Political ads are propaganda, in the sense that they are carefully packaged information designed to elicit a particular action from the audience. In the case of political ads, the particular action elicited is voting for/against candidates. Propaganda does work. The more money you have to spend on placing that propaganda in front of the eyes of the target audience, the more people will vote the way you want them to. This is simply a fact. Votes can be bought, easily. It just takes money.
Whether the arguments made in a political ad are false or not is irrelevant to the efficacy of the ads. ALL that matters is how well-crafted the propaganda is, and how wide an audience sees it.
I just happen to think it is important to know who is buying votes for whom, why, and for how much. Call me crazy, but I think transparency in political funding is absolutely essential to the functioning of a democratic republic. We no longer have that in the US. This is a huge problem, and it is incredibly obvious to anyone who knows even a little bit about the political process.
You so crazy!!
If none of this mattered, we wouldn't be trying to hammer out campaign finance reform for the last 130 years.
Is it too Godwin of me to call out Hitler? Rogue, I'm not saying that about you at all, but we've seen the extreme dangers of unchecked propaganda.
| 416 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:06:28am |
re: #412 Fozzie Bear
Some people are not ignorant about anything - and believe on wednesday what they believed on monday - regardless what happened on tuesday.
| 417 |
wrenchwench Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:06:42am |
re: #412 Fozzie Bear
If you advocate for secrecy in politics, you are advocating for your own ignorance. Literally.
People who do that are quite persistent, it seems.
| 418 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:06:53am |
re: #415 marjoriemoon
You so crazy!!
If none of this mattered, we wouldn't be trying to hammer out campaign finance reform for the last 130 years.
Is it too Godwin of me to call out Hitler? Rogue, I'm not saying that about you at all, but we've seen the extreme dangers of unchecked propaganda.
You know who else thought the idea of universal healthcare was a good idea?/
| 419 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:07:13am |
re: #410 RogueOne
re: #406 Fozzie Bear
You both have been telling me I'm going through my decision making process in the wrong way. My belief that HCR is a bad idea shouldn't be based on facts alone but it should also be based on who gave money to the president in order for him to make his argument. How is that a false dichotomy? If I need to worry about sourcing for candidate A why not Candidate B too? Or is it that only one view needs to be sorted out while those views you agree with should get a pass?
You should be concerned about both candidates, and who is funding them. You should be concerned about the confluence of interests between what a candidate is saying, and who is paying him to say it. You should ask yourself if those interests reflect your interests, or not. That's what it means to give your informed consent by voting for a candidate.
| 420 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:07:41am |
Over at the Gaurdian page, Buzzsawmonkey is posting as SpaceJesus.
Why are those people such douches?
| 421 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:07:44am |
Hitler's a bit too extreme. More to the point would be the Swiftboat ads against Kerry, a well-decorated veteran.
| 422 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:07:51am |
In other news...
Artist extends olive branch to religious community
LOVELAND - The artist whose art sparked a firestorm in the Loveland community says he will try to bring calm by painting a portrait of Jesus Christ for a local church.
AdvertisementEnrique Chagoya, who lives in California, says he will give the painting to Loveland's Resurrection Christian Fellowship.
Chagoya's piece entitled, "The Misadventures of Romantic Cannibals," enraged religious groups. They described the lithograph as Jesus Christ engaging in a sexual act.
For several days, protesters gathered outside the Loveland Museum/Gallery where the piece was on display. On Oct. 6, Kathleen Folden drove from Montana to Loveland and destroyed the print, according to Loveland Police. She was promptly arrested.
Chagoya and Resurrection's pastor, Jonathan Wiggins, spoke with each other shortly after the incident. Following their conversations, Chagoya says he offered to paint for free a "beautiful" portrait of baby Jesus for the church.
Continues.
| 423 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:08:16am |
re: #420 LudwigVanQuixote
Over at the Gaurdian page, Buzzsawmonkey is posting as SpaceJesus.
Why are those people such douches?
Genetics.
/
| 424 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:08:44am |
re: #407 Alouette
Karl Marx admired Abraham Lincoln. So does that mean Abraham Lincoln admired Karl Marx?
No, but Karl Marx didn't kickoff Lincoln's political career in his living room!
//
| 425 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:09:30am |
Unlimited money in politics would be - how you say?.. um, bad.
| 426 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:09:58am |
re: #419 Fozzie Bear
For the most part I agree. I just don't need to know who is funding whom in order to come to an informed decision. If it's a good idea or a bad idea should be all that matters. Take for instance the Karl Rove and CoC kerfluffle, I haven't heard one argument pointing out where their campaign commercials have crossed the line only that we don't know who is funding them. That's weak.
| 427 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:10:36am |
re: #422 Gus 802
In other news...
But what about the panel showing Muhammed and the dancing bikini-clad piggies?
| 428 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:10:57am |
re: #426 RogueOne
So you don't think it's useful to judge people based on their past performance and honesty?
Why not?
| 429 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:11:28am |
re: #427 Alouette
But what about the panel showing Muhammed and the dancing bikini-clad piggies?
Guess no one noticed.
| 430 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:12:11am |
re: #428 Obdicut
I already said that upthread I believe. I judge a candidate based on his views and experience.
| 431 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:12:44am |
re: #426 RogueOne
I just don't need to know who is funding whom in order to come to an informed decision.
You realise thats a self nulling sentence, right?.
Either you are crediting yourself with godlike powers or are working on the assumption that Nixonian campaign tactics will never be attempted ever again.
| 432 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:13:02am |
re: #429 Gus 802
Guess no one noticed.
You noticed that the Denver Post was one of the papers that refused to run the "where's mohammed" cartoon this past weekend?
| 433 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:13:11am |
re: #426 RogueOne
For the most part I agree. I just don't need to know who is funding whom in order to come to an informed decision. If it's a good idea or a bad idea should be all that matters. Take for instance the Karl Rove and CoC kerfluffle, I haven't heard one argument pointing out where their campaign commercials have crossed the line only that we don't know who is funding them. That's weak.
A simple question: should it be legal for a foreign company to spend unlimited amounts of money influencing political races in the US, in absolute secrecy?
Yes or No. (Currently, it is completely legal)
| 434 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:13:52am |
re: #431 wozzablog
You realise thats a self nulling sentence, right?.
Either you are crediting yourself with godlike powers or are working on the assumption that Nixonian campaign tactics will never be attempted ever again.
Not quite. If you have a stance on a position then a 30 second ad shouldn't shake your informed convictions, right?
| 435 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:14:10am |
re: #432 RogueOne
You noticed that the Denver Post was one of the papers that refused to run the "where's mohammed" cartoon this past weekend?
Nope. I didn't notice. Didn't even know there was a "where's Mohamed" cartoon.
| 436 |
Capitalist Tool Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:14:49am |
re: #407 Alouette
Karl Marx admired Abraham Lincoln. So does that mean Abraham Lincoln admired Karl Marx?
juicy, succulent point
| 437 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:15:17am |
re: #434 RogueOne
Not quite. If you have a stance on a position then a 30 second ad shouldn't shake your informed convictions, right?
Do you believe that the average American actually has informed convictions?
| 438 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:15:55am |
re: #434 RogueOne
We are not talking about long held convictions - we are talking about elections, the two do not co-incide that often these days.
And - its not about what you believe its about WHO is telling you what to believe.
| 439 |
lawhawk Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:16:09am |
re: #420 LudwigVanQuixote
And in a pot calling kettle black, Geller gave an interview that got posted on Right Wing News. She was asked about Charles:
On what happened to Charles Johnson:"I'm not equipped. Psychiatry is out of my field."
Right; Charles is the one that is nuts for questioning Geller's association with raving knuckle dragging troglodytes who push xenophobia (EDL and VB anyone?). Gotcha.
You know what else is out of Geller's field? Veracity, honor, compassion, and logic.
| 440 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:16:13am |
re: #430 RogueOne
I already said that upthread I believe. I judge a candidate based on his views and experience.
That's not an answer, Rogue. Why don't you think it's useful to say, "Hrm, the Heritage Foundation has a history of lying repeatedly-- therefore, I'm going to doubt the data that they're presenting in this ad is real."?
| 441 |
Capitalist Tool Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:17:32am |
re: #439 lawhawk
And in a pot calling kettle black, Geller gave an interview that got posted on Right Wing News. She was asked about Charles:
Right; Charles is the one that is nuts for questioning Geller's association with raving knuckle dragging troglodytes who push xenophobia (EDL and VB anyone?). Gotcha.
You know what else is out of Geller's field? Veracity, honor, compassion, and logic.
and the clue that clown makeup and lacquered hair is well, clownish
| 443 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:17:51am |
re: #433 Fozzie Bear
A simple question: should it be legal for a foreign company to spend unlimited amounts of money influencing political races in the US, in absolute secrecy?
Yes or No. (Currently, it is completely legal)
Currently is completely Illegal, as it should be. The Citizens United ruling didn't change the ban on foreign nationals giving money to elections.
[Link: www.fec.gov...]
| 444 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:18:02am |
re: #437 Fozzie Bear
Do you believe that the average American actually has informed convictions?
More to the point, what happens when the convictions are misinformed? Is that not a problem?
| 445 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:18:50am |
re: #435 Gus 802
Nope. I didn't notice. Didn't even know there was a "where's Mohamed" cartoon.
See? Because the man hid it from you.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 446 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:19:25am |
re: #437 Fozzie Bear
Do you believe that the average American actually has informed convictions?
Why do you think american voters are stupid? A bit of an elitist aren't you?/
| 447 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:19:57am |
re: #443 RogueOne
Currently is completely Illegal, as it should be. The Citizens United ruling didn't change the ban on foreign nationals giving money to elections.
[Link: www.fec.gov...]
I didn't say anything about foreign nationals. You are correct that foreign individuals cannot give unlimited amounts to influence US elections. However, corporations and groups don't suffer from such restrictions. They have more expansive rights currently than actual people, as regards contributions to interest groups. Is that OK with you?
| 448 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:22:05am |
re: #446 RogueOne
Why do you think american voters are stupid? A bit of an elitist aren't you?/
Yes. People in general, on average, are rather stupid. The average IQ is, by definition, 100. Do you know how dumb someone with a 100 IQ is?
| 449 |
Interesting Times Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:23:11am |
re: #448 Fozzie Bear
“Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realize that half of them are dumber than that.” ~ George Carlin
| 450 |
wrenchwench Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:23:13am |
re: #448 Fozzie Bear
Yes. People in general, on average, are rather stupid. The average IQ is, by definition, 100. Do you know how dumb someone with a 100 IQ is?
Average amount of dumb. By definition, right?
| 451 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:23:30am |
re: #426 RogueOne
For the most part I agree. I just don't need to know who is funding whom in order to come to an informed decision. If it's a good idea or a bad idea should be all that matters. Take for instance the Karl Rove and CoC kerfluffle, I haven't heard one argument pointing out where their campaign commercials have crossed the line only that we don't know who is funding them. That's weak.
Honestly this goes back to the whole Swedish Democrat, EDL, BNP argument back here in 2006. You have to know who is behind political rhetoric. That's where the break from the right started here, btw, not at the election.
It's a weird thing for me, as a Jew, to see these people supporting Israel and yet espousing their hatred for the honest, hardworking Muslims living among them. And they have Jewish supporters to boot. But I simply can't get behind these people who are steeped in bigotry and in some cases, rooted in Nazism.
| 452 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:23:43am |
re: #449 publicityStunted
“Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realize that half of them are dumber than that.” ~ George Carlin
People who confuse median and average are in no position to comment on dumbness.
| 453 |
wrenchwench Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:24:20am |
re: #452 iossarian
People who confuse median and average are in no position to comment on dumbness.
Uh oh.
| 454 |
lostlakehiker Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:25:10am |
re: #80 NJDhockeyfan
Look carefully at your salad next time you visit Moscow...
Earthworm salad served at Kremlin dinner for President Wulff
re: #287 iossarian
By the way, the whole "Obama shouldn't spend campaign money because he wants to tighten campaign finance regulation" argument is false in the same way that the "people who benefit from government healthcare are hypocritical for calling for the abolition of said healthcare" is false.
Those people are not hypocritical - opposing a program does not mean that you cannot benefit from it while it exists (though one could argue that these people don't fully realize the implications of their position). In the same way, Obama has to play the game by the current rules, even though he would like to change those rules eventually.
Obama does not have to play the game by the current rules. He broke the rules systematically in the 2008 elections, by disabling the security features on credit card donation software so that the software would accept donations from anywhere, from anyone, in any currency, and without any record of who the donor really was. People gave under the name of Mickey Mouse, Adolf Hitler, and John Galt. People openly declared themselves citizens of other nations, and donated. The money was kept and then spent.
And now he's shocked, shocked, that the U.S. chamber of commerce, which gets a little of its money from abroad, weighs in on elections. This, though no actual law has been broken.
We have seen in California how it works. The side that offends the Left gets punished. Donors are tracked down, their homes picketed and their businesses boycotted. And now this administration would like to have card-check voting for union membership, so that those who don't want to unionize will know that the union knows who they are and where they live.
| 455 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:26:54am |
re: #454 lostlakehiker
re: #287 iossarian
Obama does not have to play the game by the current rules. He broke the rules systematically in the 2008 elections, by disabling the security features on credit card donation software so that the software would accept donations from anywhere, from anyone, in any currency, and without any record of who the donor really was. People gave under the name of Mickey Mouse, Adolf Hitler, and John Galt. People openly declared themselves citizens of other nations, and donated. The money was kept and then spent.
And now he's shocked, shocked, that the U.S. chamber of commerce, which gets a little of its money from abroad, weighs in on elections. This, though no actual law has been broken.
We have seen in California how it works. The side that offends the Left gets punished. Donors are tracked down, their homes picketed and their businesses boycotted. And now this administration would like to have card-check voting for union membership, so that those who don't want to unionize will know that the union knows who they are and where they live.
So your argument is, in a nutshell, "A broke the law first, so it's ok if B does" ???
| 456 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:27:20am |
re: #454 lostlakehiker
Wow. Which wingnut talking point did that come from? Malkin? Hotair? Beck?
| 457 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:27:57am |
FCKH8.com - I suspect some people may find this offensive...fuck 'em.
| 458 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:28:03am |
re: #445 RogueOne
See? Because the man hid it from you.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Actually, I don't follow that stuff and frankly I think the Mohammed cartoons, while protected speech in the USA, have gotten rather pointless and is now used by "artists" that want attention. The Denver Post is under no obligation to have printed that particular cartoon. At the same time, there are countless Mohammed cartoons available in both print and the internet for people to look at and get whatever it is they get from viewing those images.
| 459 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:28:31am |
re: #454 lostlakehiker
If an action taken by one party is immoral and wrong, is it permissible when taken by another party? Yes or No.
Are some things wrong in and of t6hemselves, or does it only matter if the seal has been broken, so to speak?
| 460 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:30:17am |
re: #440 Obdicut
That's not an answer, Rogue. Why don't you think it's useful to say, "Hrm, the Heritage Foundation has a history of lying repeatedly-- therefore, I'm going to doubt the data that they're presenting in this ad is real."?
I think you might be trying too hard. I take for granted that campaign commercials are trying to sell me on something. As a matter-of-fact I think that everything that comes out of peoples mouths in general is said trying to sell me on something. Everything is framed to make their positions look good but that doesn't really play a role in my decision making.
I want to know if a candidate supports extending the bush tax cuts. I don't care if the Center for Economic Progress gives him his ad money. I want to know where a candidate stands on defense spending. I don't care if GE is giving him his ad money. I want to know where a candidate stands on individual freedoms, I don't care if he's getting his ad money from CSPI. I want to know if a candidate supports HCR and I don't care if they're getting their money from the insurance industry.
If a candidate doesn't support HCR, the stimulus package, and whatever issues you have at the top of your list...is it really important to you where he's getting his money?
| 461 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:30:45am |
re: #457 darthstar
FCKH8.com - I suspect some people may find this offensive...fuck 'em.
[Video]
They could left the youngins out, but that was pretty groovy lol
| 462 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:32:39am |
The short answer is, Rogue doesn't mind at all when people lie to him, because he is a perfect human lie detector, like the guy from Lie to Me, and thus he could never be misinformed. Thus, he has nothing to fear. Of course, in Rogue's world, more than half the population is also perfectly adept at detecting deception, and thus, we have nothing to fear.
| 463 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:33:31am |
re: #451 marjoriemoon
Honestly this goes back to the whole Swedish Democrat, EDL, BNP argument back here in 2006. You have to know who is behind political rhetoric. That's where the break from the right started here, btw, not at the election.
It's a weird thing for me, as a Jew, to see these people supporting Israel and yet espousing their hatred for the honest, hardworking Muslims living among them. And they have Jewish supporters to boot. But I simply can't get behind these people who are steeped in bigotry and in some cases, rooted in Nazism.
That's a good point but I'm not sure how that equates to an election here in the US. I don't believe republicans are inherently racist anymore than I believe dems want to murder the unborn. I disagree with unions but I don't believe they're evil.
| 464 |
Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:33:58am |
So big money can bankroll total nutjobs to destroy our quality of life, (if they wish) and we can't do anything about it?
| 465 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:34:19am |
re: #456 marjoriemoon
Wow. Which wingnut talking point did that come from? Malkin? Hotair? Beck?
You fell for the trap. Argue the contention not where he got the idea.
| 466 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:34:51am |
Wow, so we actually have people posting here who see nothing wrong with vast sums of money flowing into GOP campaigns from secret sources.
Hyper-partisanship does strange things to people's minds.
| 467 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:35:30am |
re: #462 Fozzie Bear
The short answer is, Rogue doesn't mind at all when people lie to him, because he is a perfect human lie detector, like the guy from Lie to Me, and thus he could never be misinformed. Thus, he has nothing to fear. Of course, in Rogue's world, more than half the population is also perfectly adept at detecting deception, and thus, we have nothing to fear.
No, I expect people to spin. sort of like you just did right there.
| 468 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:36:35am |
re: #466 Charles
Wow, so we actually have people posting here who see nothing wrong with vast sums of money flowing into GOP campaigns from secret sources.
Hyper-partisanship does strange things to people's minds.
They know exactly whats wrong with it, they just think it will play out well for them. I don't believe for a second that they just don't understand how this could backfire. They just don't think it will backfire on them.
| 469 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:38:25am |
re: #463 RogueOne
That's a good point but I'm not sure how that equates to an election here in the US. I don't believe republicans are inherently racist anymore than I believe dems want to murder the unborn. I disagree with unions but I don't believe they're evil.
The point was about political rhetoric. I mentioned the Swiftboat campaign against Kerry also.
I don't know how else to answer you. Fozzie did a better job than I.
| 470 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:39:29am |
re: #465 RogueOne
You fell for the trap. Argue the contention not where he got the idea.
The idea? Or the Truth v Lie.
I gave a donation online to Obama and it was secure. It's the first thing I look at when giving buying anything online.
| 471 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:40:02am |
re: #467 RogueOne
No, I expect people to spin. sort of like you just did right there.
Yes sir. I am shamelessly spinning to push the lie that political ads, many of which are deceptive, affect the results of elections. How silly of me. Clearly, people spend vast sums of money based on a delusion. Nobody would believe that the health care bill had death panels in it, right? And certainly, nobody could fall for that old canard, that Iraq attacked us on 9/11, right?
Clearly, only the truth spreads across the land when PR firms spread their wings, and falsehoods cower under the holy glow of their 30-second spots.
| 472 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:40:13am |
re: #454 lostlakehiker
He broke the rules systematically in the 2008 elections, by disabling the security features on credit card donation software so that the software would accept donations from anywhere, from anyone, in any currency, and without any record of who the donor really was.
Prove this.
| 473 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:41:36am |
re: #460 RogueOne
Stop dodging the question, Rogue:
Why do you want to discard whether or not a source has, historically, been honest when evaluating new information from that source?
Nothing you said had anything to do with what I asked you. At all.
| 474 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:41:48am |
re: #337 darthstar
It's "tingle up your leg" - aka sexual stimulation. Tingle down your leg is simply a lack of bladder control.
Where it concerns one Harry Reid, tingle down appears to fit...
| 475 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:42:06am |
| 476 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:42:11am |
re: #456 marjoriemoon
Wow. Which wingnut talking point did that come from? Malkin? Hotair? Beck?
Flopping Aces and Powerline.
| 477 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:42:19am |
re: #454 lostlakehiker
This is hard to respond to, because it doesn't really address the point we're arguing.
I'm saying that lax campaign finance regulation is a bad thing, regardless of who takes advantage of it. Rogue is at least offering a consistent counter-argument, which is that he is able to determine the strength of an argument regardless of who is paying to promote it. For various reasons, people are pointing out that this is a dangerous position to take, most specifically if you accept that you will not always have perfect information to rely on.
Incidentally, it is still against the law to use foreign money to support a political campaign. The problem with the CoC money is that it's unclear exactly how separate their accountants keep foreign donations from their general fund - it appears that there is not much separation, which may well be a breach of campaign finance law.
| 478 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:42:28am |
re: #466 Charles
I didn't freak out when the question arose during the last election and I'm not all that concerned this election so don't be surprised when I don't get worked up in 2012 either. I don't care if a candidate self finances or if a candidate gets all his money in $3 donations from a billion people. I care about their position, not their money. I don't care if they have union support or not, I don't care if they have the support of the CoC, I don't care if they have the support of ABC, the YMCA, SPCA, or the WWE.
| 479 |
Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:42:40am |
re: #468 Fozzie Bear
They know exactly whats wrong with it, they just think it will play out well for them. I don't believe for a second that they just don't understand how this could backfire. They just don't think it will backfire on them.
Remember the Chinese donor outrage?
| 480 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:43:12am |
re: #469 marjoriemoon
The point was about political rhetoric. I mentioned the Swiftboat campaign against Kerry also.
I don't know how else to answer you. Fozzie did a better job than I.
Not necessarily. Your argument was based on your moral view, can't argue with that.
| 481 |
darthstar Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:43:17am |
re: #461 marjoriemoon
They could left the youngins out, but that was pretty groovy lol
Yep...that surprised me at first, but really, it's just a word.
| 482 |
Interesting Times Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:43:49am |
re: #466 Charles
Wow, so we actually have people posting here who see nothing wrong with vast sums of money flowing into GOP campaigns from secret sources.
Then they should also have no problem with the money given to Rand Paul by Stormfront, and feel no need to have ever known about it.
| 483 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:43:56am |
A question:
Has the propaganda regarding Israel foisted by Reuter's among other entities had any effect on people's opinions regarding Israel, or is it just harmless?
| 484 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:45:23am |
re: #483 Fozzie Bear
A question:
Has the propaganda regarding Israel foisted by Reuter's among other entities had any effect on people's opinions regarding Israel, or is it just harmless?
Harmless. People can make up their own minds, doesn't matter what lies they are exposed to, since they are obviously lies. /
| 485 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:45:37am |
By the way, the comments for that Guardian article turned into an epic stalker pile-on. Dozens of comments had to be deleted by their moderators, but they're still spewing hatred at me. If anyone feels like putting in a word in defense of LGF, here's the link:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
LudwigVanQuixote posted a couple of excellent comments, thanks. But apart from him, the freaks are running wild. You'll recognize a lot of their fake names -- they're the obsessed creeps who post at the stalker blogs.
| 486 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:45:48am |
re: #482 publicityStunted
Then they should also have no problem with the money given to Rand Paul by Stormfront, and feel no need to have ever known about it.
Should I base my opinions of a candidate on their positions or who supports those positions?
| 487 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:45:51am |
I mean, if Rogue is right, there shouldn't be any problem with Saudi Arabia spending billions of dollars running ads advocating for candidates that want the US to drop it's military support for Israel, right?
| 488 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:46:58am |
re: #483 Fozzie Bear
A question:
Has the propaganda regarding Israel foisted by Reuter's among other entities had any effect on people's opinions regarding Israel, or is it just harmless?
Of course it's had an effect. What you have asked in terms of the way that Israel is routinely demonized by major media outlets having an effect, is akin to asking if Fox has had an effect in demonizing Obama.
| 489 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:47:26am |
re: #486 RogueOne
Should I base my opinions of a candidate on their positions or who supports those positions?
False Dichotomy, Inc's stock goes up by another five cents!
Do you even realize what a false dichotomy is, Rogue?
| 490 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:47:50am |
re: #488 LudwigVanQuixote
Of course it's had an effect. What you have asked in terms of the way that Israel is routinely demonized by major media outlets having an effect, is akin to asking if Fox has had an effect in demonizing Obama.
Well, according to Rogue, it's harmless. Interesting.
| 491 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:48:32am |
re: #466 Charles
Wow, so we actually have people posting here who see nothing wrong with vast sums of money flowing into GOP campaigns from secret sources.
Hyper-partisanship does strange things to people's minds.
And to think that they hate China and the idea of bowing to Arabs in general...
If only they realized those were two of the largest foreign sources...
| 492 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:48:49am |
re: #481 darthstar
Yep...that surprised me at first, but really, it's just a word.
It's my favorite swear :)
| 493 |
wrenchwench Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:48:58am |
re: #329 Gus 802
Ah, just like old times. It's the morning wingnut wave.
FCBHO!!11ty
/
hat tip: Dangerous Minds
| 494 |
Interesting Times Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:49:38am |
re: #486 RogueOne
Should I base my opinions of a candidate on their positions or who supports those positions?
Both. Campaign donations, especially mega-huge ones from one source, can also be considered a form of quid pro quo - those groups likely expect something in return for their money, perhaps some favors the politician isn't so willing to be up front about.
| 495 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:50:24am |
re: #490 Fozzie Bear
Well, according to Rogue, it's harmless. Interesting.
I've just been reading stalker crap at the Guardian site. I don't have the residual sanity to deal with that. By the way, if anyone cares to put in a word for me, that would be nice too.
| 496 |
wrenchwench Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:51:10am |
This is also from Dangerous Minds. Possibly better than the other one. At least it's shorter.
| 497 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:52:47am |
re: #487 Fozzie Bear
I mean, if Rogue is right, there shouldn't be any problem with Saudi Arabia spending billions of dollars running ads advocating for candidates that want the US to drop it's military support for Israel, right?
I'll repost this:
[Link: www.fec.gov...]
The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.The following groups and individuals are considered "foreign nationals" and are, therefore, subject to the prohibition:
* Foreign governments;
* Foreign political parties;
* Foreign corporations;
* Foreign associations;
* Foreign partnerships;
* Individuals with foreign citizenship; and
* Immigrants who do not have a "green card."
| 498 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:54:56am |
re: #489 Obdicut
False Dichotomy, Inc's stock goes up by another five cents!
Do you even realize what a false dichotomy is, Rogue?
Yes but I'm afraid you don't since you've brought it up twice now. Tu Toque! Tu Toque!
| 499 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:55:18am |
re: #497 RogueOne
I'll repost this:
[Link: www.fec.gov...]
You do realize that all Saudi Arabia would have to do is create a branch office in the US for a front company, incorporate here, and then they can spend as much money as they want, in absolute secrecy, don't you? You do realize that this is incredibly easy to do, don't you? You do realize that any company which does any business in the US is considered an international corporation, not a foreign one, don't you? You do realize that individuals are not the same thing as corporations, don't you?
| 500 |
Jadespring Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:55:51am |
Hey all. LGF is actually loading properly today. I can post!
Woo
| 501 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:57:10am |
re: #498 RogueOne
Yes but I'm afraid you don't since you've brought it up twice now. Tu Toque! Tu Toque!
Okay. You see, when you repeatedly ask:
Should I base my opinions of a candidate on their positions or who supports those positions?
You are making a false dichotomy, since you can do both.
And again, since you're still dodging the question:
Why do you want to discard whether or not a source has, historically, been honest when evaluating new information from that source?
| 502 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:58:52am |
re: #499 Fozzie Bear
You do realize that all Saudi Arabia would have to do is create a branch office in the US for a front company, incorporate here, and then they can spend as much money as they want, in absolute secrecy, don't you? You do realize that this is incredibly easy to do, don't you? You do realize that any company which does any business in the US is considered an international corporation, not a foreign one, don't you? You do realize that individuals are not the same thing as corporations, don't you?
What your suggesting is still a violation of the law.
Domestic Subsidiaries and Foreign-Owned CorporationsA U.S. subsidiary of a foreign corporation or a U.S. corporation that is owned by foreign nationals may be subject to the prohibition, as discussed below.
If you want to take the campaign portion of your question away then it would be "Should SA be allowed to air commercials advocating for ending US support of Israel" which is legal.
| 503 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 10:59:04am |
re: #499 Fozzie Bear
You do realize that all Saudi Arabia would have to do is create a branch office in the US for a front company, incorporate here, and then they can spend as much money as they want, in absolute secrecy, don't you? You do realize that this is incredibly easy to do, don't you? You do realize that any company which does any business in the US is considered an international corporation, not a foreign one, don't you? You do realize that individuals are not the same thing as corporations, don't you?
By the way, I would bet good money that this is happening, right now, with "foreign" corporations. It's not like China doesn't spend billions every year on espionage, actively trying to find ways to gain advantage abroad, especially in the US. China isn't alone, it's just an example.
(By the way, there is a rather large number of Chinese-government-owned companies doing business in the US, right now, who are legally eligible to participate in our political process. But that's not a problem, because Rogue can tell when he's being lied to.)
| 504 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:00:10am |
re: #503 Fozzie Bear
Right now, it's India who's giving the most to the CoC and other groups; they really like our offshoring business, and really don't want to see an end to the GOP defending tax breaks for corporations that send jobs offshore.
| 505 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:00:42am |
re: #502 RogueOne
What your suggesting is still a violation of the law.
If you want to take the campaign portion of your question away then it would be "Should SA be allowed to air commercials advocating for ending US support of Israel" which is legal.
Ah, ok so you are saying that due to the stringent reporting requirement, that we would know if these things are happening... Wait, what's that? There is no requirement to report donations?
| 506 |
Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:01:18am |
re: #502 RogueOne
It is true that it's still illegal but it will be harder to enforce the law when there's no disclosure.
| 507 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:01:58am |
re: #501 Obdicut
Okay. You see, when you repeatedly ask:
You are making a false dichotomy, since you can do both.
And again, since you're still dodging the question:
Why do you want to discard whether or not a source has, historically, been honest when evaluating new information from that source?
A. Being able to do both portions of my question doesn't make the question a "false dichotomy".
B. I haven't ignored your question. I've answered it multiple times in multiple ways. My answer isn't good enough for you because you disagree. I've told you, over and over, I don't care about the source of the funding. I don't care if they've lied in the past or if they'll lie in the future because I don't care about the source at all.
| 508 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:04:05am |
re: #507 RogueOne
A. Being able to do both portions of my question doesn't make the question a "false dichotomy".
Sigh. Whatever, Rogue. Do you understand you don't have to choose to do one OR the other? That you can do both, and so whatever name you want to call your question, it's fallacious?
B. I haven't ignored your question. I've answered it multiple times in multiple ways. My answer isn't good enough for you because you disagree. I've told you, over and over, I don't care about the source of the funding. I don't care if they've lied in the past or if they'll lie in the future because I don't care about the source at all.
No, Rogue, this is not an answer.
Do you agree that some sources are more reliable than others? For example, do you agree that the APS is a better source for information about global warming than "Lord" Monkton?
| 509 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:04:32am |
re: #507 RogueOne
A. Being able to do both portions of my question doesn't make the question a "false dichotomy".
B. I haven't ignored your question. I've answered it multiple times in multiple ways. My answer isn't good enough for you because you disagree. I've told you, over and over, I don't care about the source of the funding. I don't care if they've lied in the past or if they'll lie in the future because I don't care about the source at all.
You do realize that your protestations that you "don't care" about the source of political funding isn't fooling anyone, don't you? I'm calling bullshit. You don't care about the CoC's political funding sure, but you are so obviously full of shit when you claim that in general it doesn't matter to you.
Selective indifference.
| 510 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:04:35am |
re: #505 Fozzie Bear
Ah, ok so you are saying that due to the stringent reporting requirement, that we would know if these things are happening... Wait, what's that? There is no requirement to report donations?
You want a requirement to report donations? Fine. Get it passed, I've already told you I would support it mostly out of apathy since... I Don't Care Where A Candidate Gets Their Funding.
| 511 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:05:18am |
re: #510 RogueOne
You want a requirement to report donations? Fine. Get it passed, I've already told you I would support it mostly out of apathy since... I Don't Care Where A Candidate Gets Their Funding.
Bullshit.
| 512 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:05:52am |
Another question that the campaign finance issue raises (though indirectly) is: who do you trust to teach you anything in the first place.
Let's take as an example the following statement: "The minimum wage kills jobs."
Right-wingers will tell you that's true. However there are several studies that seem to show that increasing the minimum wage actually increases economic activity (by enabling low-income people to spend more) and thus creates jobs.
What Rogue appears to be saying is that he can decide whether the statement is true by himself, presumably from first-hand experience or by a priori reasoning. This enables him to then support or reject a candidate based on whether or not they are in support of the minimum wage. (Of course, this is a hypothetical example, and I don't know what Rogue's position on the minimum wage is.)
If, on the other hand, you have to rely on a teacher of some kind to explain to you why the statement is true or false, then you need to have some kind of way of evaluating whether your chosen teacher is a reliable source of information.
Basically, then, claiming that the source of information is unimportant, and that it's only the information itself that counts, is tantamount to a claim that we can only trust knowledge that is entirely generated from our own internal reasoning.
| 513 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:06:33am |
re: #508 Obdicut
Sigh. Whatever, Rogue. Do you understand you don't have to choose to do one OR the other? That you can do both, and so whatever name you want to call your question, it's fallacious?
No, Rogue, this is not an answer.
Do you agree that some sources are more reliable than others? For example, do you agree that the APS is a better source for information about global warming than "Lord" Monkton?
We're not talking about global warming, we're talking about a candidate. If Lord Monkton were running against APS then you would have a point. If the issue is a carbon tax I already know what I think about it and no, it doesn't matter if lord monkton agrees with me or not.
| 514 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:07:06am |
re: #513 RogueOne
We're not talking about global warming, we're talking about a candidate. If Lord Monkton were running against APS then you would have a point. If the issue is a carbon tax I already know what I think about it and no, it doesn't matter if lord monkton agrees with me or not.
I can see you're just going to go on dodging the question forever.
| 515 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:07:30am |
re: #509 Fozzie Bear
You do realize that your protestations that you "don't care" about the source of political funding isn't fooling anyone, don't you? I'm calling bullshit. You don't care about the CoC's political funding sure, but you are so obviously full of shit when you claim that in general it doesn't matter to you.
Selective indifference.
Really? What was your stance on the multiple calls for inquiry into the funding of the NYC mosque or of their detractors? Take a wild stab where I came down on the issue.
| 516 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:10:18am |
re: #515 RogueOne
Really? What was your stance on the multiple calls for inquiry into the funding of the NYC mosque or of their detractors? Take a wild stab where I came down on the issue.
The NYC mosque was/is private property. That's like saying I don't care about lead poisoning in Chinese toys because I don't eat Chinese food.
| 517 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:10:53am |
re: #514 Obdicut
I can see you're just going to go on dodging the question forever.
If your argument is "APS says....." then they become an issue. If your argument is "Candidate A says he's for a carbon tax because APS says it's the right idea" then they become an issue. If Candidate A says "I support a carbon tax" then APS is not an issue even if they agree and are funding his campaign. Why is that hard to understand?
| 518 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:11:55am |
re: #517 RogueOne
If Candidate A says "I support a carbon tax" then APS is not an issue even if they agree and are funding his campaign.
Why not?
| 519 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:12:55am |
re: #516 Fozzie Bear
The NYC mosque was/is private property. That's like saying I don't care about lead poisoning in Chinese toys because I don't eat Chinese food.
No. I was able to make an informed decision on their stances without worrying about who was funding whom as I would bet you were able to do.
| 520 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:14:41am |
re: #519 RogueOne
No. I was able to make an informed decision on their stances without worrying about who was funding whom as I would bet you were able to do.
Yeah. I decided it was none of my business, because it was a private property issue. Are you arguing that elected positions in government are private property?
| 521 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:15:44am |
re: #395 wozzablog
sooo... you are saying that you are familiar with the idea that terrorists support democrats?...
It was NOT what I said....
| 522 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:15:45am |
re: #518 Obdicut
Why not?
When I first became a LT the sgts in my new unit nicknamed me "Lt. Why?" because that was always the first question out of my mouth. From here on out I'm giving you that mantle. ObdiWhy?
In answer to your question read the thousands posts above where I've explained, repeatedly, that I don't feel the need to care about their funding or who else agrees with their stances in order to decide for myself whether I agree or not.
| 523 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:16:24am |
re: #522 RogueOne
Saying "I don't feel that way" isn't a reason, Rogue. It's an emotion.
Do you have a reason? Or just an emotion?
| 524 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:18:04am |
re: #520 Fozzie Bear
Yeah. I decided it was none of my business, because it was a private property issue. Are you arguing that elected positions in government are private property?
I don't believe the way I do because I don't think it's not any of my business, I just don't care enough. I don't base my beliefs on who else agrees. I don't base my views of a candidate on who likes/hates them. When making decisions for myself I don't care about anyone else other than myself and my views. Is that a good enough answer for you guys? Why is that so hard to believe?
| 525 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:19:19am |
I just noticed this thread has gone for over 500 posts and my laptop isn't choking on it. Were there any changes last night?
| 526 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:20:59am |
re: #525 RogueOne
I just noticed this thread has gone for over 500 posts and my laptop isn't choking on it. Were there any changes last night?
I have noticed marked improvements in LGF's performance on my computer after clearing my cache. Just a thought.
| 527 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:21:45am |
re: #397 jamesfirecat
Except that he was no longer a terrorist by the time Obama got to know him...
Is that true? Is there a time limit on when you are no longer a terrorist?
| 528 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:23:00am |
re: #526 Fozzie Bear
I haven't had time to screw with this, I'm supposed to be working today but I've spent all day bickering./
Thanks to you two I'll be here this weekend and thanks to the economy I just got another cheap restaurant to build. The crappier the economy gets, the more dollar menus needed, the more work I get.
| 529 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:23:05am |
Hypothetical situation: an army unit is under fire in Iraq. Two things happen more or less simultaneously: they get a radio transmission from their backup telling them to move into a nearby warehouse, as it is a safe place to wait for reinforcements, and a guy on the street shouts at them that the disused factory in the opposite direction is a safe place for them to take cover.
To the unit leader on the ground, both options look equally good in terms of providing cover.
Which piece of information is more useful, and why?
| 530 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:23:56am |
| 531 |
Jadespring Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:24:17am |
re: #525 RogueOne
I just noticed this thread has gone for over 500 posts and my laptop isn't choking on it. Were there any changes last night?
Yeah something good has happened. I've been having problems with choking and hanging for a while now. Right now it's working great.
---knock on wood---
| 532 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:25:03am |
re: #528 RogueOne
I haven't had time to screw with this, I'm supposed to be working today but I've spent all day bickering./
Thanks to you two I'll be here this weekend and thanks to the economy I just got another cheap restaurant to build. The crappier the economy gets, the more dollar menus needed, the more work I get.
Hey now, I can't make you argue with me, I can only entice. :)
| 533 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:25:56am |
re: #527 Buck
Is that true? Is there a time limit on when you are no longer a terrorist?
Yes. It's shorter when your side wins. I'll mention Michael Collins so I don't have to mention Menachim Begin.
| 534 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:26:11am |
re: #529 iossarian
without more info you go where you're directed. There's no way to tell what else is happening.
| 535 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:26:54am |
re: #534 RogueOne
But directed by who? Radio backup, or the guy in the street?
Why trust one source but not the other?
| 536 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:27:37am |
re: #529 iossarian
That's a weird question btw. You need someone to call in an air strike?
| 538 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:29:05am |
re: #535 iossarian
But directed by who? Radio backup, or the guy in the street?
Why trust one source but not the other?
I assumed the guy on the street is a civilian. In a fast moving situation like that you don't know what is going on higher up the food chain. If they tell you to go to a certain location then that's what you do unless there is something stopping you.
| 539 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:29:23am |
re: #533 Decatur Deb
Yes. It's shorter when your side wins. I'll mention Michael Collins so I don't have to mention Menachim Begin.
We have a different definition of terrorist if you want to invoke Begin. If calling Begin a terrorist is supported here....
| 540 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:30:43am |
re: #537 Buck
Is that what you think Billy the terrorist did? You think he turned against his earlier beliefs, and worked against the weatherman and their supporters?
You really think that?
I think it's strange that you think it matters in regards to evaluating Obama.
| 541 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:30:59am |
Rehashing the Ayers story again I see. Never mind that Republicans sat opposite on the Annenberg Challenge group and then some:
Regardless of his background, it was never a problem for anyone — including Republicans and Chicago's most powerful business leaders — to work with Ayers on Chicago's public schools. In fact, Ayers is widely respected in the field of urban education.
"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."
Nelson says her fellow Republicans "might snort when they hear the name Bill Ayers, because they know he comes from a wealthy family, they know he became a radical activist early in his life ... but beyond just snorting, I don't think anyone gives it another thought."
"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds.
Hallett calls this attack on Obama's association with Ayers and the Annenberg Challenge by further association, "a smear campaign. It's a political diatribe that has no basis in fact. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was an extremely positive initiative. It was well-vetted, thorough, and the fact that it is now is being used for political purposes is, in my opinion, outrageous."
| 542 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:31:57am |
re: #540 Fozzie Bear
I think it's strange that you think it matters in regards to evaluating Obama.
What are you twisting my words to say now?
| 543 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:32:21am |
re: #540 Fozzie Bear
I think it's strange that you think it matters in regards to evaluating Obama.
maybe because he's read the entire thread where multiple people have stated that it's important to know who else supports a candidate in order to make an informed decision?
| 544 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:33:41am |
re: #538 RogueOne
I fully agree with you - my point is that, in this case, the source of the information is crucial. Knowing that one directive comes from a certain source is, in fact, the sole reason for choosing that directive over another.
I won't claim to be the busiest person out there (posting on here is pretty much proof of that) but, for me, knowing who is pushing a certain piece of information is a key factor in deciding whether to pay any attention to it. I just don't have time to fact-check every Heritage or Cato announcement, so I just assume that everything they put out is right-wing propaganda, and more or less ignore it.
| 545 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:34:43am |
re: #543 RogueOne
maybe because he's read the entire thread where multiple people have stated that it's important to know who else supports a candidate in order to make an informed decision?
I was unaware that Ayers financed his campaign.
| 546 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:35:05am |
re: #537 Buck
Is that what you think Billy the terrorist did? You think he turned against his earlier beliefs, and worked against the weatherman and their supporters?
You really think that?
So you think Israeli intelligence were duped by this guy? He's sacrificed everything to tell the truth.
| 547 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:35:36am |
re: #542 Buck
What are you twisting my words to say now?
I see. So you don't think Ayers matters in regards to evaluating Obama, but you brought it up anyway because of how amazingly irrelevant it is?
| 548 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:35:43am |
re: #543 RogueOne
maybe because he's read the entire thread where multiple people have stated that it's important to know who else supports a candidate in order to make an informed decision?
A rule that it seems only relates to who supports the republicans. No calls for disclosure of any of the organizations who support Democrats....
HOWEVER what does that have to do with what I said?
| 549 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:36:28am |
re: #547 Fozzie Bear
I see. So you don't think Ayers matters in regards to evaluating Obama, but you brought it up anyway because of how amazingly irrelevant it is?
When did I say that? I didn't even bring it up.
| 550 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:37:50am |
More here on Annenberg/Ayers:
The suggestion that Ayers somehow dominated the policy or direction of the bipartisan Challenge Board, imprinting it with radical views, is absurd. The Annenberg Challenge was funded by Nixon Ambassador and Reagan friend Walter Annenberg. Republican Governor Jim Edgar, who wrote to Walter Annenberg to encourage the creation of the Challenge, joined Mayor Daley to announce the formation of the Challenge and his administration continued to work closely on education reform with the Board. John McCain has praised an initiative funded by the Challenge. The Challenge’s work is still carried on today through to the bipartisan Chicago Public Education Fund, which coordinates closely Chicago Public Schools CEO Arne Duncan and Mayor Daley to improve teacher performance and has included such board members as Illinois Republican Party Chair Andrew McKenna.
Source - this of course is from NRO so they go out of there way to arrive at a distorted analysis. I can't find the original article.
| 551 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:38:32am |
re: #546 marjoriemoon
So you think Israeli intelligence were duped by this guy? He's sacrificed everything to tell the truth.
I don't know what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
I am simply not going to compare "this guy" with Billy the terrorist.
| 552 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:38:53am |
re: #548 Buck
A rule that it seems only relates to who supports the republicans. No calls for disclosure of any of the organizations who support Democrats...
Several people have repeatedly pointed out that campaign finance laws would restrict Republicans and Democrats equally, and that this would be a good thing.
I don't want McDonald's buying my local Democratic congressman any more than I want them buying the Republican two counties over.
| 553 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:39:23am |
re: #548 Buck
A rule that it seems only relates to who supports the republicans. No calls for disclosure of any of the organizations who support Democrats...
HOWEVER what does that have to do with what I said?
When discussing the current state of campaign finance law, it is a given that we are talking about one set of rules to apply to everyone. The law has changed, radically, since the election in 2008. Hence, why it is being discussed.
I encourage you to imagine the nefarious things that could happen within the DNC as a result of the Citizens United ruling. It's the same problem. If you have to look at it from that angle to get it, well, whatever works.
| 554 |
Gus Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:39:46am |
"He Lied" About Bill Ayers?
October 10, 2008
McCain cranks out some false and misleading attacks on Obama's connection to a 1960s radical.
Summary
In a TV ad, McCain says Obama "lied" about his association with William Ayers, a former bomb-setting, anti-war radical from the 1960s and '70s. We find McCain's claim to be groundless. New details have recently come to light, but nothing Obama said previously has been shown to be false.
[...]
Conclusion
Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama’s interactions with him. We’re making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign’s attempts to sway voters – in ads and on the stump – with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close. Obama never “lied” about this, just as he never bragged about it. The foundation they both worked with was hardly “radical.” And Ayers is more than a former "terrorist," he’s also a well-known figure in the field of education.
– by Viveca Novak and Brooks Jackson
| 555 |
I Am Kreniigh! Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:39:59am |
re: #49 Alouette
I feel the Ambien kicking in now. See you tomorrow honcos. I have to get up early to call the electrician.
My Ambien kicked in hours ago.
...wait, what am I doing sitting at this keyboard?
| 556 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:40:03am |
re: #451 marjoriemoon
Honestly this goes back to the whole Swedish Democrat, EDL, BNP argument back here in 2006. You have to know who is behind political rhetoric. That's where the break from the right started here, btw, not at the election.
It's a weird thing for me, as a Jew, to see these people supporting Israel and yet espousing their hatred for the honest, hardworking Muslims living among them. And they have Jewish supporters to boot. But I simply can't get behind these people who are steeped in bigotry and in some cases, rooted in Nazism.
Your internal Venn diagrams differ from theirs in their order of precedence.
Your rate "honest, hardworking" higher than the Jewish/Muslim differentiation. They apparently do the opposite.
Which is probably one reason you're here.
| 557 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:40:35am |
re: #551 Buck
I don't know what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.
I am simply not going to compare "this guy" with Billy the terrorist.
My fault. I didn't catch your initial "Billy" reference.
I was pointing to the fact that people do change and sometimes in drastic ways.
| 558 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:45:22am |
re: #557 marjoriemoon
My fault. I didn't catch your initial "Billy" reference.
I was pointing to the fact that people do change and sometimes in drastic ways.
Billy didn't change.
| 559 |
RogueOne Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:45:57am |
re: #544 iossarian
I fully agree with you - my point is that, in this case, the source of the information is crucial. Knowing that one directive comes from a certain source is, in fact, the sole reason for choosing that directive over another.
I won't claim to be the busiest person out there (posting on here is pretty much proof of that) but, for me, knowing who is pushing a certain piece of information is a key factor in deciding whether to pay any attention to it. I just don't have time to fact-check every Heritage or Cato announcement, so I just assume that everything they put out is right-wing propaganda, and more or less ignore it.
I'll agree. When searching for an answer to a question analyzing the source is important but that isn't the same thing as evaluating a candidate for office, at least not in my mind. I know where I stand on the issues that are important to me and that's all I need to know from a candidate.
I'm not arguing for people to vote on a hunch only that I believe staying focused on their positions (arguments) and not where they got their ideas is more important. I go back to the Cheney vs. Dems argument almost 10 years ago regarding the bush energy plan. They spent a year arguing about who gave him the idea to drill in ANWR before they got down to deciding whether it was a good idea or not.
| 560 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:46:34am |
re: #554 Gus 802
"He Lied" About Bill Ayers?
October 10, 2008
Is that anything like the lies about the Chamber of Commerce the President is telling now?
| 561 |
What, me worry? Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:47:54am |
re: #556 oaktree
Your internal Venn diagrams differ from theirs in their order of precedence.
Your rate "honest, hardworking" higher than the Jewish/Muslim differentiation. They apparently do the opposite.
Which is probably one reason you're here.
It's complicated isn't it. If they listen to what I think of Palestinian/Israeli relations, they probably won't like me much. But thank you :)
I've come to understand that you can't put all people in one pot. Not Christians, Jews or Muslims. The problem, anyway, is with the European governments and how they handle immigration and their own civil rights laws. France, for instance, bans the burqa instead of tackling the real issue of civil rights for everyone, Muslim AND non-Muslim population both.
| 562 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 11:50:27am |
re: #560 Buck
Is that anything like the lies about the Chamber of Commerce the President is telling now?
Which of the following statements is a lie:
A) The CoC collects contributions from foreign corporations and places these contributions in its general fund.
B) The CoC pays for political campaign advertising out of its general fund.
(If you want to be nitpicky, you can replace A) with A') The CoC collects contributions from foreign corporations and, until now, has been unable to provide documentation that shows that these contributions are kept separate from its general fund.)
| 563 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:06:04pm |
re: #562 iossarian
Which of the following statements is a lie:
Both are a lie.
The United States Chamber of Commerce (USCC) is the world's largest not-for-profit lobbying group, representing many businesses and associations across the United States of America.
They have been doing this for more than 100 years, and have been audited every year. There has NEVER been anything illegal found in regards to "foreign" money being used to influence a US election. They have offices in hundreds of countries all over the world.
The amount of "foreign" money they get (Less than one million dollars) does not cover the expense of these offices.
To accuse them of taking "foreign" money and using it to influence the US election without ANY evidence is a LIE.
It is a smear, and a LIE. Zero evidence.
The exact same smear (based on no evidence) could be made of the organization who "broke this story", and even the President's campaign funding. There was tens of million where he did not provide documentation to show where precisely the contributions were from.
| 564 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:20:09pm |
re: #563 Buck
Oh buck, you never fail to repeat the talking points
it's like you're on the GOP's payroll
| 565 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:21:54pm |
re: #504 Obdicut
Right now, it's India who's giving the most to the CoC and other groups; they really like our offshoring business, and really don't want to see an end to the GOP defending tax breaks for corporations that send jobs offshore.
woo hoo!
| 566 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:23:13pm |
re: #564 WindUpBird
Oh buck, you never fail to repeat the talking points
it's like you're on the GOP's payroll
That is so familiar. I remember when I used to be on the Zionist Payroll.
If you don't want to hear the same answer, don't ask the same question.
| 567 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:26:52pm |
re: #499 Fozzie Bear
You do realize that all Saudi Arabia would have to do is create a branch office in the US for a front company, incorporate here, and then they can spend as much money as they want, in absolute secrecy, don't you? You do realize that this is incredibly easy to do, don't you? You do realize that any company which does any business in the US is considered an international corporation, not a foreign one, don't you? You do realize that individuals are not the same thing as corporations, don't you?
Or maybe they just 'donate' money to fund the Presidential Library, or promise lucrative speaking engagements when the President retires.... At least that is legal, and unlimited.
| 568 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:28:31pm |
re: #563 Buck
Both are a lie.
You are incorrect. It is well-known that the CoC has foreign branches that take dues from foreign corporations. They have also not been able to provide any paperwork to substantiate their claim that they do not put these contributions in their general fund, from which they then fund political campaigns.
In my organization, which is large and has overseas activities, we are very careful to track the source of all our revenues, and how they are spent, for reasons very similar to this. If the CoC was really not mixing their funds, it would be easy for them to produce the paperwork to demonstrate this.
| 569 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:35:16pm |
re: #568 iossarian
You are incorrect. It is well-known that the CoC has foreign branches that take dues from foreign corporations. They have also not been able to provide any paperwork to substantiate their claim that they do not put these contributions in their general fund, from which they then fund political campaigns.
In my organization, which is large and has overseas activities, we are very careful to track the source of all our revenues, and how they are spent, for reasons very similar to this. If the CoC was really not mixing their funds, it would be easy for them to produce the paperwork to demonstrate this.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO! That is why they don't do it. Your (and the Presidents) Guilty until proven innocent is really a problem for me. I mean he is a constitutional lawyer, he should know better. I am sure you have an excuse.
DO you feel that ALL the other lobby groups, all the 527 organizations be forced to produce this paper work? Or is it just the Chamber? Should the President be forced to produce the source of all of his campaign funds?
| 570 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:36:50pm |
re: #569 Buck
There are many laws that require people to prove things. If you want to attend a state school at the lower, in-state rent, you have to prove residency.
This isn't hard to think about, Buck.
| 571 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:38:11pm |
re: #570 Obdicut
There are many laws that require people to prove things. If you want to attend a state school at the lower, in-state rent, you have to prove residency.
This isn't hard to think about, Buck.
Is that the case here? There is a law that requires the Chamber to show this documentation? Which law is that? Please enlighten me.
| 572 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:41:28pm |
re: #571 Buck
Is that the case here? There is a law that requires the Chamber to show this documentation? Which law is that? Please enlighten me.
That's the contention, yes.
[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
The law is cited there.
| 573 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:46:33pm |
re: #569 Buck
THEY DON'T HAVE TO!
Again, this is incorrect. Just as, in my organization, if people suspected we were laundering foreign money, we could be forced to disclose our internal accounting in order to demonstrate that we keep different sources of money separate.
If you think about it, it doesn't make any sense to have a system where organizations cannot be asked to show their accounting, because it would make it impossible to ever prove charges of money laundering.
| 574 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:54:41pm |
re: #572 Obdicut
That's the contention, yes.
[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
The law is cited there.
Nope, there is no law cited in your link that requires the Chamber to provide the documentation.
Now you might think that The United States Chamber of Commerce (USCC) does not observe 'reasonable accounting methods'. (Despite being audited every year by one of the top ten accounting firms in the USA). Certainly you can accuse them of that, but without evidence it would be unreasonable. I mean you can say anything negative you want, but without a shred of evidence it would be a lie, and a smear.
| 575 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:55:35pm |
The CoC collects approximately 200 million per year in dues and contributions from the U.S. and about 100 thousand from overseas operations. Which is kept in a separate fund and not used for elections.
Suggesting the CoC is involved in allowing foreign influence into our election process is ridiculous and the hight of hypocrisy.
Not to mention desperate and amusing.
| 576 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:56:11pm |
re: #575 filetandrelease
Which is kept in a separate fund and not used for elections.
How do you know this to be true?
| 577 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:56:49pm |
| 578 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:59:29pm |
re: #573 iossarian
Again, this is incorrect. Just as, in my organization, if people suspected we were laundering foreign money, we could be forced to disclose our internal accounting in order to demonstrate that we keep different sources of money separate.
If you think about it, it doesn't make any sense to have a system where organizations cannot be asked to show their accounting, because it would make it impossible to ever prove charges of money laundering.
Really? All I have to do is suspect it, and you would have to open your books to me? Really? Is that how it works?
Again, the President had tens of millions of dollars.... perhaps as much as $100 million that he got through credit cards and didn't keep track of who was actually making the donation.
Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign is allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor's identity, campaign officials confirmed.
Would you call on the President to supply the documentation? After all it only makes sense.....
| 579 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 12:59:51pm |
re: #577 filetandrelease
How do you know it is not.
Heh. I don't know that it's not. It may be true. I didn't assert that it wasn't.
You, however, asserted that it was.
So, again: How do you know that it's true?
Or do you not know, and you were simply saying it, even though you have no clue?
| 580 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:00:26pm |
re: #577 filetandrelease
How do you know it is not.
Because they've been asked to disclose the paperwork and have not done so, and (in my experience) if they had such paperwork they would immediately produce it. At least, that is what my organization would do (and has done in the past, when asked).
| 581 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:01:07pm |
re: #578 Buck
Really? All I have to do is suspect it, and you would have to open your books to me? Really? Is that how it works?
Yes, it is. I work for a higher education institution and we get FOIA requests fairly frequently, to which we have to respond.
| 582 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:01:57pm |
I see, so we are just "asking questions". Hillarious.
| 583 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:02:04pm |
re: #578 Buck
Would you call on the President to supply the documentation? After all it only makes sense...
Yes, I would. I support strong campaign finance regulation. Do you?
| 584 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:07:49pm |
re: #580 iossarian
Because they've been asked to disclose the paperwork and have not done so, and (in my experience) if they had such paperwork they would immediately produce it. At least, that is what my organization would do (and has done in the past, when asked).
#1, their donors, when exposed have been harassed.
#2 they spend more on running foreign offices that they take in foreign funds.
#3 "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS " could not be more Nazi like. It is a line in almost every Nazi movie. Unless there is ANY evidence to support the suspicion that they do not have proper accounting in place, then no one should be able to force them to expose their internal accounting.
If you and your organization feels comfortable exposing all their paper work and accounting when ever anyone says, that is your damage. It is your cost to bear, and your free choice. But I don't really think you can compare your organization and it's accounting to the United States Chamber of Commerce.... but maybe I am wrong.
| 585 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:09:24pm |
re: #583 iossarian
Yes, I would. I support strong campaign finance regulation. Do you?
Fine, I am sure The United States Chamber of Commerce will follow the laws exactly, BUT without the reform YOU want.... should the President be forced to supply that documentation?
| 586 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:11:34pm |
re: #581 iossarian
Yes, it is. I work for a higher education institution and we get FOIA requests fairly frequently, to which we have to respond.
OK, your organization is a government organization that has to comply with Freedom of Information requests.
Not the same as The United States Chamber of Commerce is it?
| 587 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:12:22pm |
Gotta go now, it has been fun playing with you, but you will just have to play with yourselves for awhile.
| 588 |
iossarian Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:12:55pm |
re: #585 Buck
Fine, I am sure The United States Chamber of Commerce will follow the laws exactly, BUT without the reform YOU want... should the President be forced to supply that documentation?
I think both the President and the CoC should be forced to disclose their donors. The easiest way to do this would be via campaign finance regulation (which Franken is seeking to enforce, incidentally).
Ironically, most of our FOIA requests come from conservatives who want to be sure that we're not spending public money on bad things like research into gay people. Similarly, it's the Republican AG in Virginia at the moment who's trying to use FOIA tactics to stifle research into AGW. So I'd be careful who you go accusing of Nazi-ism.
| 589 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:16:19pm |
As a business owner (3rd) simply opening your books because some one wants to see them is laughable.
| 590 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:17:53pm |
re: #589 filetandrelease
If you got audited, you'd have to open them, correct?
| 591 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:17:59pm |
re: #588 iossarian
I think both the President and the CoC should be forced to disclose their donors. The easiest way to do this would be via campaign finance regulation (which Franken is seeking to enforce, incidentally).
Ironically, most of our FOIA requests come from conservatives who want to be sure that we're not spending public money on bad things like research into gay people. Similarly, it's the Republican AG in Virginia at the moment who's trying to use FOIA tactics to stifle research into AGW. So I'd be careful who you go accusing of Nazi-ism.
I am accusing the "Show me your Papers" crowd of Nazism. Why should I be careful? Are you assuming I support the Anti Gay crowd and tactics to stifle research into AGW?
| 592 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:19:23pm |
re: #591 Buck
Asking a business to prove that their funding adheres to US law is being a Nazi?
Strangest Godwin ever.
| 593 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:20:28pm |
re: #592 Obdicut
Asking a business to prove that their funding adheres to US law is being a Nazi?
Strangest Godwin ever.
Again...... What law says that without any evidence of wrongdoing a lobby group has to prove they are innocent?
| 594 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:20:46pm |
re: #590 Obdicut
If you got audited, you'd have to open them, correct?
LOL, yes. But if Joe Biden ask to see them I would tell him to bite me.
| 595 |
filetandrelease Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:23:12pm |
Beautiful day for a ride. Have a good weekend all.
| 596 |
Obdicut Fri, Oct 15, 2010 1:26:00pm |
re: #593 Buck
Again... What law says that without any evidence of wrongdoing a lobby group has to prove they are innocent?
The one already cited: They have to demonstrate they sanitize foreign funding.
Are you against them having to do that?
| 598 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 5:30:47pm |
re: #596 Obdicut
The one already cited: They have to demonstrate they sanitize foreign funding.
Are you against them having to do that?
You have cited NO LAW that says what you think they should do.
However, let me put it to you another way. Why do you think that ONLY organizations who oppose the president should have to prove their innocence, and organizations who support the president get a pass?
INCLUDING the President himself. He doesn't have to demonstrate that his campaign sanitized foreign funding. Moveon doesn't, the Unions don't....
The Chamber uses GAP, and is audited every year by one of the top ten accounting firms in the country. There is no reason to think they do not use proper accounting.
| 599 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 15, 2010 6:42:40pm |
Hyper-partisanship causes strange cognitive distortions, including making excuses for vast sums of money donated to politicians by anonymous sources.
I mean, hey ... what could possibly go wrong with that?
| 600 |
Buck Fri, Oct 15, 2010 7:13:11pm |
re: #599 Charles
Hyper-partisanship causes strange cognitive distortions, including making excuses for vast sums of money donated to politicians by anonymous sources.
I mean, hey ... what could possibly go wrong with that?
You don't have any problem with the President calling for auditing the organizations who just happen oppose his policies? I mean, hey ... what could possibly go wrong with that?
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