Is the History Channel Really Going to Run Neo-Confederate Ads?

The neo-Confederate wackos who call themselves the “Sons of Confederate Veterans” claim that they’ve bought a series of disgusting advertisements on the History Channel portraying the Confederacy as the good guys: Georgia Division - Sesquincentennial Celebration Video 1.

Here’s one of these sick ads:

Youtube Video

It seems hard to believe that the History Channel would run such blatantly revisionist ads from a hate group, but I’ve contacted them to see if they have any comment and will let you know if I get a response.

(Hat tip: Killgore Trout.)

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88 comments

1 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:30:15am

Holy cow!
I’m suthren, and I think that ad is about as awful a thing as I’ve ever seen.

Revisionist, hell yeah.

2 Timmeh  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:34:06am

I sent them a mail asking them not to air these. I encourage others to do the same:

feedback@aetv.com

3 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:34:22am
I’ve contacted them to see if they have any comment and will let you know if I get a response.


Nice. I suspect the group may have bought commercial time with their local cable provider and not on the national History Channel. It’s still pretty outrageous, even for Georgia and the History Channel should be aware that this group is advertising with them even if it’s just locally.

4 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:36:32am

Oh the “Georgia Division” is it?

5 jaunte  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:37:02am

These guys are nuts if they think anyone is going to forget the main cause of the Civil War. From the History Channel: Causes of the Civil War

In the days of the American Revolution and of the adoption of the Constitution, differences between North and South were dwarfed by their common interest in establishing a new nation. But sectionalism steadily grew stronger. During the 19th century the South remained almost completely agricultural, with an economy and a social order largely founded on slavery and the plantation system. These mutually dependent institutions produced the staples, especially cotton, from which the South derived its wealth. The North had its own great agricultural resources, was always more advanced commercially, and was also expanding industrially.
6 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:37:54am

I think you’re right, Killgore.

And I think we’ll see more and more bullshit like this, thanks to the rehabilitation that the “states rights” groups have been getting under the Pauls, Beck, etc.

I love this statement:

The South peacefully seceded, just like our Founding Fathers did in 1776 with England ; and all we wanted was to be left alone to govern ourselves.

Really? Did you want your black inhabitants to join in that governance? No? Then don’t say ‘we’. Blacks were and are Southerners too.

Racist pricks.

7 abbyadams  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:38:39am

What. The. Frack.

8 abbyadams  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:39:02am

And they have NINE more of these in the vault???

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:39:58am

Stalkers are STILL at it in the Guardian comment thread:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

The hatebot known as ‘spidly’ dug up a very old LGF page posted by ‘No Submission’ (who’s banned, of course) that used the term “St. Pancake,” and he’s claiming that I wrote it, then deleted all the comments for it.

They have no compunctions at all about lying through their teeth.

10 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:42:36am

Saw this yesterday, I am so sick of people like this. I am not ashamed to be a Southerner but mimizing slavery and its evils is disinegous at best. It’s also worth pointing out 7/11 of the confederate states seceded before Lincoln even took the oath of office.

11 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:43:44am

Here’s a counterpunch:

[Link: videos.howstuffworks.com…]

Abolishing Slavery in America: The Underground Railroad


Many, many Southerners risked their lives, their property, and the future of their families in order to help slaves escape to the North. These Southerners were not doing so because they expected to gain in any way from this, but because they saw what was moral and right.

Here is one prominent Southerner who did so.

12 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:44:16am

re: #5 jaunte

These guys are nuts if they think anyone is going to forget the main cause of the Civil War.

I really, really, really wish you were right about that, but you’re not.

13 jaunte  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:46:59am

re: #12 negativ

Saying ‘anyone’ is probably overoptimistic, but I don’t think these folks are going to get any support from legitimate historians and teachers.

14 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:47:52am

re: #5 jaunte

These guys are nuts if they think anyone is going to forget the main cause of the Civil War. From the History Channel: Causes of the Civil War

They’ll try to “explain” that the main cause was the North putting the squeeze on the South. I can’t believe that the war’s been over for 145 years and we’re still seeing this crap.

15 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:48:57am

re: #6 Obdicut

Peacefully succeeded just like the Founding Fathers. Well, I guess that’s technically accurate if you concede that the colonists’ revolution was tremendously bloody and destructive, and set neighbor against neighbor literally at each other’s throats over whether to support the Crown/Union or the Revolution/Confederacy.

16 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:49:10am

re: #13 jaunte

Saying ‘anyone’ is probably overoptimistic, but I don’t think these folks are going to get any support from legitimate historians and teachers.

True, but they’ll just use that fact to shout “Help! Help! We’re being repressed by Evil Yankees!!1”

/spits

17 KenJen  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:50:26am

.re: #8 abbyadams

And they have NINE more of these in the vault???

Check out American in Crisis: A Southern Solution with host “Doc” Smith. I think he’s missing his two front teeth. Really.

18 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:51:04am

re: #15 negativ

Yeah, that part’s incredibly strange. How on earth does anyone thing that the Revolution was a peaceful secession? It wasn’t even a ‘secession’; we weren’t part of Great Britain with voting rights and equal participation in government, we were a series of colonies. It was a revolution for that reason.

Ahistorical assholes.

19 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:51:38am

They used to say that history is written by the victors. That was before the internet.

20 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:52:41am

btw, I know how to spell ‘seceded’, honest.

21 jaunte  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:52:44am

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

Here’s a well-written description of the nostalgia and the blind spot that affects confederate apologists:

When our focus is on honoring the men who fought and died, no doubt bravely, without ever really grappling with what they were fighting for, we don’t learn anything. When we implicitly deny the horror of slavery and the continual betrayal of African-Americans during and after the war, we are setting ourselves up to accept racist fantasies in the present. When we fawn over Southern leaders like Lee and Jackson as models of American manhood, what we are really doing is yearning for a white, Christian, patriarchal past in which women and slaves knew their places and real men were subordinate only to God. [Link: vastpublicindifference.blogspot.com…]
22 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:52:47am

I couldn’t even make it through that ad. The untruth was just so blatant and oblivious that I had to shut it off before I put my fist through my monitor.

23 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:53:26am

When I moved down here to Virginia I wasn’t expecting the level of hatred toward the North that still exists in the South. I had even been told that the South won the Civil War by one of the rednecks I worked with.

We went to an antique mall near Harrisonburg a few months ago. There were lots of interesting places to see and buy…old phones, bottles, furniture, art, used books, food, quilts, etc. One of stores inside was a Confederate store complete with rebel flags, Civil War books, art, and clothing, and jewelry. It was really one of the weirdest places I have ever walked through. The books were all about how great the Confederates were and how badly they were treated by the Union. Klan material was on a few shelves as well as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion proudly sitting on their main book shelf. The guy at the register was totally creepy as well.

24 Summer Seale  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:54:39am

Wait…..wait……you mean the Southerners were trying to free the slaves and the wicked Yankees told them not to and made them enslave the poor blacks, right? And that is why the war was fought. Yeah…yeah…that’s the ticket…..

25 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:54:48am

re: #19 wrenchwench

They used to say that history is written by the victors. That was before the internet.

Well, it does bear repeating that what these assholes have been saying has had a following in the South since the war ended. With the passing on of the generation that fought the war that following shrunk but it seems to have grown somewhat in recent years.

26 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:56:16am

Honestly, I don’t get why it’s celebrated really. Yeah, you can be proud of your great great grandfather. I don’t begrudge people at all who do that really but the attempts to sugarcoat the realities of what the Confederacy was all about is what offends me. They fired on a US military fort. What could be more treasonous than that? One of the interesting things I read about the confederate government itself is that it had problems due to ironically Jefferson Davis trying to centralize everything and stuff. So, it would seem to me that the idea was flawed from the start.

27 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 9:57:50am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Well, it does bear repeating that what these assholes have been saying has had a following in the South since the war ended. With the passing on of the generation that fought the war that following shrunk but it seems to have grown somewhat in recent years.

I think the Civil Rights movement had a lot to do with it really. If I remember reaidng correctly a lot of the states brought back confederate symbols on their flags after or around that time frame.

28 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:00:56am

I’m in agreement with the posters who say these neo-confederate retards are probably just trying to buy ad space on their local broadcasters. There’s no way the History Channel would support revisionist nonsense; after all, they dedicated a number of specials to debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.

29 Lidane  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:02:09am

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I can’t believe that the war’s been over for 145 years and we’re still seeing this crap.

No kidding. I’ve lived in the South my whole life, and while there are good things about it, particularly in terms of literature, food, and drinks, this constant drumbeat by the revisionist morans about how The South Will Rise Again drives me nuts. Every time I see a Confederate flag or someone talking about The War of Northern Aggression, I want to slap someone. Hard. Preferably with a history book.

30 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:02:58am

re: #28 pharmmajor

I’m in agreement with the posters who say these neo-confederate retards are probably just trying to buy ad space on their local broadcasters. There’s no way the History Channel would support revisionist nonsense; after all, they dedicated a number of specials to debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Of course they wouldn’t support revisionist nonsense, like they wouldn’t support UFO Files, Mysteries of the Freemasons and UFO Hunters…

Follow the Money.

32 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:05:26am

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

Of course they wouldn’t support revisionist nonsense, like they wouldn’t support UFO Files, Mysteries of the Freemasons and UFO Hunters…

Follow the Money.

See, I always thought those shows were just an attempt to cash in on viewers interested in the paranormal & secret society conspiracies without directly promoting bullshit. Besides, I’ve watched a few episodes of UFO Hunters and Monsterquest, and they never find anything paranormal or, in some cases, end up debunking a paranormal claim.

33 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:06:19am

re: #29 Lidane

No kidding. I’ve lived in the South my whole life, and while there are good things about it, particularly in terms of literature, food, and drinks, this constant drumbeat by the revisionist morans about how The South Will Rise Again drives me nuts. Every time I see a Confederate flag or someone talking about The War of Northern Aggression, I want to slap someone. Hard. Preferably with a history book.

You know what pisses me off most is when politicians pander to it? George Allen and Bob McDOnnell have both pandered to neo-confederate sympathizers in Virginia. Allen apparently flew a rebel flag in his office. It was one of the main reasons why I became utterly disgusted with him honestly and McDonnell did the Confederate History month without mentioning slavery.

34 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:06:58am

re: #28 pharmmajor

I’m in agreement with the posters who say these neo-confederate retards are probably just trying to buy ad space on their local broadcasters. There’s no way the History Channel would support revisionist nonsense; after all, they dedicated a number of specials to debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.

History Channel Australia aired “Loose Change”, which was the first of the 9/11-Was-An-Inside-Job “documentaries” produced, and the one that more or less started the entire Truther movement.

35 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:08:08am

re: #32 pharmmajor

See, I always thought those shows were just an attempt to cash in on viewers interested in the paranormal & secret society conspiracies without directly promoting bullshit. Besides, I’ve watched a few episodes of UFO Hunters and Monsterquest, and they never find anything paranormal or, in some cases, end up debunking a paranormal claim.

And on some show, they leave it up to the viewers. Cashing in is the whole idea of the media, it’s not a charity.

It these show were a retrospect of the history or paranormal “studies,” that would be fine… these show do not belong on a channel that calls themselves “The History Channel.”

36 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:08:23am

re: #34 negativ

History Channel Australia aired “Loose Change”, which was the first of the 9/11-Was-An-Inside-Job “documentaries” produced, and the one that more or less started the entire Truther movement.

Really? I didn’t know that; I’m surprised they would air that nonsense

37 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:08:29am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

The DIY eco-island: British inventor builds floating home from 120,000 plastic bottles

Great stuff, though he shouldn’t hold that cat he’s seen with so carelessly. Hold a cat the wrong way for long and they’ll tear you up pretty bad.

38 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:08:37am

re: #29 Lidane

No kidding. I’ve lived in the South my whole life, and while there are good things about it, particularly in terms of literature, food, and drinks, this constant drumbeat by the revisionist morans about how The South Will Rise Again drives me nuts. Every time I see a Confederate flag or someone talking about The War of Northern Aggression, I want to slap someone. Hard. Preferably with a history book.

Living up north it was always the US against our enemies (at the time it was the USSR) but when I moved down here it was the North against the South. I discovered they were still fighting the Civil War down here.

39 Steve Dutch  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:11:04am

Dudes, a civil war is a war (“War”) fought among the populace of a single country (“Civil”). It can be an attempt to overthrow the government, an attempt to secede, or violence by one group against another. So it may have been the War of Secession or the War of Southern Independence, but it was also a Civil War. We didn’t secede “peacefully” from England either. There was quite a bit of fighting before July 4, 1776.

Also, did a single Southern congressman introduce a bill allowing the southern states to secede? Was there a single suit in Federal Court arguing that it was a Constitutional right of the States to secede? Was there any attempt at all to pursue all legal channels before resorting to violence?

And even if it is true the States do have the right to secede, all the property in the South still belonged to its original owners. That means all the forts and arsenals remained the rightful property of the United States. Taking them over was theft, pure and simple. “But that would have made the South’s position militarily untenable.” Okay, show me in the Constitution where the U.S. Government is obligated to make it possible to secede by force.

Argue the South was in the right if you dare, but don’t indulge in ham-fisted revisionism by redefining well established terms like “Civil War.”

40 Lidane  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:11:25am

re: #33 HappyWarrior

You know what pisses me off most is when politicians pander to it?

Tell me about it. I was damn near apoplectic when Rick Perry started pandering to the neo-Confederate idiots and the Republic of Texas revisionist morans when he suggested that Texas could secede again. I don’t think I’ve ever been that angry at a politician, ever.

41 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:13:26am

re: #34 negativ

History Channel Australia aired “Loose Change”, which was the first of the 9/11-Was-An-Inside-Job “documentaries” produced, and the one that more or less started the entire Truther movement.

I got a ride to a luncheon at work yesterday. The girl who gave me a ride told me all about who is responsible for 9-11 on the way back and said I have to watch Loose Change so I can see the truth. They still exist. LOL.

42 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:14:26am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

I got a ride to a luncheon at work yesterday. The girl who gave me a ride told me all about who is responsible for 9-11 on the way back and said I have to watch Loose Change so I can see the truth. They still exist. LOL.

As long as they still exist, we can still mock them.

43 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:14:50am

re: #40 Lidane

Tell me about it. I was damn near apoplectic when Rick Perry started pandering to the neo-Confederate idiots and the Republic of Texas revisionist morans when he suggested that Texas could secede again. I don’t think I’ve ever been that angry at a politician, ever.

Yep, I was too, it completely angered me because he totally disregarded how big of a tragedy the last civil war was by saying that. What pisses me off is McDonnell and Allen here in Va are both northern born and in at least Allen’s case raised. They were trying to pander to the element of the state that NJD is talking about that is still bitter about the war. And I think that’s what offends me so much.

44 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:16:24am

Hey, I just need to ask; is it wrong that I refer to nuts like the neo-Confederates, the radical right wingers and the conspiracy theorists as “retards”? I’m not trying to offend or demean anyone with a mental disability, but rather use it to describe people who should know better yet say or do incredibly stupid things.

45 nines09  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:16:34am

Wow. It was all because of taxes and tariffs that they had to fight for their liberty. This is what being on acid must be like. All done with a First Grade Teachers voice over. Brother.

46 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:17:53am

re: #42 pharmmajor

As long as they still exist, we can still mock them.

She is still my friend even though she’s is a wacky moonbat nutjob. I just kept my mouth shut except when I asked her who actually planted those bombs in the WTC. She couldn’t answer the question.

47 pharmmajor  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:18:47am

re: #46 NJDhockeyfan

She is still my friend even though she’s is a wacky moonbat nutjob. I just kept my mouth shut except when I asked her who actually planted those bombs in the WTC. She couldn’t answer the question.

As with all loons, they tend to freeze up when confronted with logic that refutes their inane beliefs.

48 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:20:07am

re: #40 Lidane

Tell me about it. I was damn near apoplectic when Rick Perry started pandering to the neo-Confederate idiots and the Republic of Texas revisionist morans when he suggested that Texas could secede again. I don’t think I’ve ever been that angry at a politician, ever.

And he’s going to be re-elected, I can damn near guarantee it.

Back during the primaries, I heard a local radio station interviewing Highland Park** residents, and the one that stood out to me the most was a woman who said she was hyper-vocally supporting Perry because she was “tired of the campaign.” It had just been going on too long, and was apparently too much trouble to keep thinking about. So she was supporting Perry for no reason at all, in hopes that it would just be over with already.


** Highland Park is a suburb of Dallas, and the Beverly Hills of Texas. Think Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, Ross Perot, and President George W Bush.

49 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:20:17am

I never get a proper explanation when I ask why the confederates fired on Fort Sumter is they were merely defending themselves. I usually get some crap like oh Lincoln provoked it. I Think next time I encounter a neo-confed I am going to ask him to explain why 7 of the states from the confederacy seceded before Lincoln even officially became president. I see people whine about Sherman’s march but never a word from those same folks about Fort Pillow and the massacre of captured black American soldiers at that fort by NAthan Bedford Forrest and his guys.

50 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:24:34am

re: #48 negativ

And he’s going to be re-elected, I can damn near guarantee it.

Back during the primaries, I heard a local radio station interviewing Highland Park** residents, and the one that stood out to me the most was a woman who said she was hyper-vocally supporting Perry because she was “tired of the campaign.” It had just been going on too long, and was apparently too much trouble to keep thinking about. So she was supporting Perry for no reason at all, in hopes that it would just be over with already.

** Highland Park is a suburb of Dallas, and the Beverly Hills of Texas. Think Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, Ross Perot, and President George W Bush.

As an aside, Illinois also has a Highland Park. Ours is a North Shore Suburb, also quite well off. It’s also strongly Jewish. Michael’s Chicago-Style Red Hots, a favorite place of mine, is located there.

51 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:25:20am

re: #44 pharmmajor

Hey, I just need to ask; is it wrong that I refer to nuts like the neo-Confederates, the radical right wingers and the conspiracy theorists as “retards”? I’m not trying to offend or demean anyone with a mental disability, but rather use it to describe people who should know better yet say or do incredibly stupid things.

Interesting you should mention this - I saw a news item on ABC not too long ago about a girl with Down’s syndrome whose parents lobbied congress for a federal law that would strike the word “retarded” from all official federal documents, replacing it with “intellectual disability”. The law passed and was signed by Pres. Obama. The news report mentioned that in the past, words like “moron”, “idiot”, and “imbecile” were actually clinical terms, and “retarded” was intended to be a more sensitive alternative.

Now, ironically, “retarded” has become just as bad as the words it was meant to replace. As for “intellectually disabled”, I personally don’t see it becoming a widespread insult - too long for the Twitter age.

52 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:27:16am

re: #49 HappyWarrior

I never get a proper explanation when I ask why the confederates fired on Fort Sumter is they were merely defending themselves. I usually get some crap like oh Lincoln provoked it. I Think next time I encounter a neo-confed I am going to ask him to explain why 7 of the states from the confederacy seceded before Lincoln even officially became president. I see people whine about Sherman’s march but never a word from those same folks about Fort Pillow and the massacre of captured black American soldiers at that fort by NAthan Bedford Forrest and his guys.

Fort Pillow was much worse than anything Sherman did. Sherman destroyed property, Forrest used murder as a tool of policy. Forrest reminds me of Joshim Peiper of the Waffen SS in his murderous approach to war.

53 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:29:55am

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

Fort Pillow was much worse than anything Sherman did. Sherman destroyed property, Forrest used murder as a tool of policy. Forrest reminds me of Joshim Peiper of the Waffen SS in his murderous approach to war.

Absolutely, I mean Forrest would kill captured black POWs. It’s something yep out of the SS and Peiper. If he had lived in more modern times, he would have been treated like a war criminal honestly and he should be retarded as such.

54 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:32:09am

re: #46 NJDhockeyfan

She is still my friend even though she’s is a wacky moonbat nutjob. I just kept my mouth shut except when I asked her who actually planted those bombs in the WTC. She couldn’t answer the question.

There’s a NYC resident named Mark Roberts who, around 2005-2007, devoted a monumental amount of energy to conclusively refuting just about every single one of the eleventy zillion insane claims of the Truthers. It is impossible to overstate his tenacity and dedication. Of course, the kooks declared him to be a CIA and/or Mossad agent. In reality, he was a tour guide and former school teacher.

See:
Links for 9/11 research

Loose Change viewer’s guide (for the non-insane)

He also happens to be a dead ringer for Young Robert DeNiro.

55 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:33:12am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Absolutely, I mean Forrest would kill captured black POWs. It’s something yep out of the SS and Peiper. If he had lived in more modern times, he would have been treated like a war criminal honestly and he should be retarded as such.

Oh dear, I hope my post wasn’t responsible for that typo ;) In any case, here’s the ABC News report I referred to in #51.

56 allegro  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:33:49am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

If he had lived in more modern times, he would have been treated like a war criminal honestly and he should be retarded as such.

One of the funnier typos I’ve seen considering the immediately preceding posts. Thanks for the giggle!

57 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:35:39am

Relevant background from LGF Pages:

The Confederate & Neo-Confederate Reader: The ‘Great Truth’ About the ‘Lost Cause’(Mark Pennington, 5-2-2010)

Lost Cause of the Confederacy(myself, 6-25-2010)

“As we have seen from many recent pronouncements on the extreme right, this 19th century revisionist movement remains vastly influential in some segments of American society. It is the source of the standard Confederate apologist line that the Civil War was “not really about slavery.”
The standard Lost Cause view was taught as dogma in the Texas public schools as recently as when I was a child in the 1950s.
Bizarre as it seems, this idea seems not only to survive but to grow in influence in the twenty-first century.”

Book Review - Baptized in Blood: The Religion of the Lost Cause, 1865-1920, by Charles Reagan Wilson (myself, 6-29-2010)

58 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:37:13am

re: #56 allegro

One of the funnier typos I’ve seen considering the immediately preceding posts. Thanks for the giggle!

Ha, completely unintentional. I meant regarded

59 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:42:12am

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Never retract inadvertently funny typos.

60 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:42:21am

re: #55 publicityStunted

Oh dear, I hope my post wasn’t responsible for that typo ;) In any case, here’s the ABC News report I referred to in #51.


it’s cool. Anyhow, as for your story you posted. I understand why the family feels the way they do about the word and why they don’t want federal office holders using it but I dunno. It really rubbed me the wrong way when Palin threw a shit storm about Rahm Emanuel calling the ideas of liberal democrats “fucking retarded” in private while she had no problem with Limbaugh calling liberal democrats “retarded” on the air. I guess that’s my problem with her more than these parents who unlike Palin aren’t partsian freaks.

61 webevintage  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:42:30am

I’ve mentioned it before, but in Arkansas we celebrate Robert E Lee’s birthday…on MLK day.
Yeah.

The Arkansas Democrat Gazette has an editorial each year on the awesomeness of Lee….no mention of the fact that he was a traitor to the United States of America.

62 jaunte  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:45:27am

re: #49 HappyWarrior

I never get a proper explanation when I ask why the confederates fired on Fort Sumter is they were merely defending themselves.

Watch for the catchphrase “tax collection fort.”

There is a historical myth circulating on the internet that Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor was a “tax collection fort” and thus the first shots of the Civil War fired in April 1861 were somehow connected to the newly enacted Morrill Tariff.

First of all, Fort Sumter had nothing to do with “tax collection.” The fort had been constructed for coastal defense following the War of 1812, a conflict which saw the city of Washington burned and Baltimore shelled by a British fleet.

And the conflict over Fort Sumter which culminated in April 1861 actually began the previous December, months before the Morrill Tariff became law.
[Link: history1800s.about.com…]

63 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:45:41am

re: #61 webevintage

I’ve mentioned it before, but in Arkansas we celebrate Robert E Lee’s birthday…on MLK day.
Yeah.

The Arkansas Democrat Gazette has an editorial each year on the awesomeness of Lee…no mention of the fact that he was a traitor to the United States of America.


Virginia had you beat, we celebrated Lee-Jackson-King day for a while. Honestly, I don’t get the point of celebrating Lee or Jackson. Lee as you say was a traitor.

64 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:47:42am

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Virginia had you beat, we celebrated Lee-Jackson-King day for a while. Honestly, I don’t get the point of celebrating Lee or Jackson. Lee as you say was a traitor.

Lee was in fact a skilled and honorable general. However, he fought for the wrong cause. But he was still a good man, and worthy of study as a commander.

65 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:47:59am

re: #62 jaunte

Watch for the catchphrase “tax collection fort.”

Ah, I’ve never heard that before, thanks. I think as I said earlier I want an explanation of why they seceded before Lincoln even took office. That’s an offensive move if there ever was one. It’s also why the first captial of hte confederacy was in Birmingham rather than Richmond since Virginia didn’t secede until April 1861 I wanna say.

66 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:49:11am

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Lee was in fact a skilled and honorable general. However, he fought for the wrong cause. But he was still a good man, and worthy of study as a commander.

Yeah, I don’t hate the man and I do understand his brilliance but I don’t get why we have to celebrate him. Benedict Arnold was a great general before he switched to the British in the revolution and I doubt any state celebrates him.

67 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:50:33am

re: #62 jaunte

There is a historical myth circulating on the internet that Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor was a “tax collection fort”

Oh, no, I was right…

68 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:57:17am

re: #66 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I don’t hate the man and I do understand his brilliance but I don’t get why we have to celebrate him. Benedict Arnold was a great general before he switched to the British in the revolution and I doubt any state celebrates him.

It has to do as well with the fact that Lee is not seen to have turned on the United States. He saw his primary loyalty to the state of Virginia, not to the nation as a whole. Many others had similar feelings at the time.

69 sagehen  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 10:58:23am

O. M. G.

I really wanted to say something more substantive, but that’s all I’ve got.

O. M. G.

70 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:06:01am

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

It has to do as well with the fact that Lee is not seen to have turned on the United States. He saw his primary loyalty to the state of Virginia, not to the nation as a whole. Many others had similar feelings at the time.

Yeah I know that many did what he did. I just don’t feel he should be celebrated either for that matter. It’s too bad Virginia did secede because without Virginia I think the confederacy would have lasted shorter since most of its best military minds were Virginians. The biggest one who was not was Longstreet, a South Carolinian and on a sidenote someone reviled by the Lost Causers for becoming a Republican, Catholic, and friend of Grant. Talk about a triple whammy.

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:07:53am

re: #69 sagehen

O. M. G.

I really wanted to say something more substantive, but that’s all I’ve got.

O. M. G.

America! Whee!

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:09:04am

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

Oh the “Georgia Division” is it?

[Video]

I note that the Wikipedia article on that piece lists some literary references, but omits “Bring the Jubilee”, a very good alternate-history novella.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:12:01am

re: #15 negativ

Peacefully succeeded just like the Founding Fathers.

EmmieG tells me that some textbooks now claim that Concord and Lexington were storage points for ‘clothing and supplies’.

74 eneri  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:15:57am

This is disgusting and a lie to boot!

75 sagehen  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:16:36am

re: #45 nines09

Wow. It was all because of taxes and tariffs that they had to fight for their liberty. This is what being on acid must be like. All done with a First Grade Teachers voice over. Brother.

And isn’t it funny how none of the secession declarations say a word about taxes or tariffs? Not a single word. But every single one of them mentions slavery — no ambiguity there, no need to read between the lines, they each overtly declared, in plain language, that they were seceeding in order to preserve the institution of slavery.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:16:49am

re: #26 HappyWarrior

They fired on a US military fort. What could be more treasonous than that?

Not giving an original copy of your birth certificate to everyone who wants one.

Come to think of it, have you ever seen Abe Lincoln’s birth certificate?

//

The Confederacy was a result of a fairly intense crisis that our nation went through, the signs of which were apparent from our founding, and just got worse as time went on. We had some shit to go through as an adolescent nation, and we did, and it was bad, bad, bad, although it led to many good things.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:18:09am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

The DIY eco-island: British inventor builds floating home from 120,000 plastic bottles

I should look into that. My class goes through about 120,000 plastic bottles a week, so I could get one started this Monday, and move in on Friday.

78 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:19:38am

re: #75 sagehen

And isn’t it funny how none of the secession declarations say a word about taxes or tariffs? Not a single word. But every single one of them mentions slavery — no ambiguity there, no need to read between the lines, they each overtly declared, in plain language, that they were seceeding in order to preserve the institution of slavery.

I think Longstreet pointed that out in his post war writings that the war was fought for the preservation of slavery and that is why hte Lost Causers led by Jubal Early (who by the way tried to raid DC in 1864) slammed him for. .

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:20:29am

re: #45 nines09

Wow. It was all because of taxes and tariffs that they had to fight for their liberty. This is what being on acid must be like. All done with a First Grade Teachers voice over. Brother.

But emphasizing taxes like that links them into a lot of current political discontent. And that is not by accident.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:22:47am

re: #61 webevintage

I’ve mentioned it before, but in Arkansas we celebrate Robert E Lee’s birthday…on MLK day.
Yeah.

Well, they were born four days apart. In January, I mean, not in actual time.

81 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:24:10am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I think Longstreet pointed that out in his post war writings that the war was fought for the preservation of slavery and that is why hte Lost Causers led by Jubal Early (who by the way tried to raid DC in 1864) slammed him for. .

Early was stopped by Union General Lew Wallace at Mocondacy Station. It was one of the few battles where the Confederates had a major numerical advantage. Wallace was forced to retreat, but he had delayed Early for an entire day and that delay was enough time for the Washington DC defenses to be made too strong to storm.

82 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:28:34am

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

I note that the Wikipedia article on that piece lists some literary references, but omits “Bring the Jubilee”, a very good alternate-history novella.

Ward Moore deserves to be better remembered. Bring the Jubilee is notable for its bleak view of the twentieth century world in which the south won the Civil War.
In contrast, Harry Turtledove’s 11 volume Timeline 191 is a slow moving apocalypse, with the struggle against the Confederacy continuing episodically into the 1940s. The most striking feature of this is the slow but wholly logical process by which the United States itself diverges into a country that is almost unrecognizable compared to its real world counterpart.

83 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 11:42:06am

One of the more amusing aspects of Turtledove’s Timeline 191 is that a lot of the late action, in the 1930s and 40s, takes place in and around Lubbock.
From 1918, this is the capital of the new Union state of Houston, separated from Texas as a result of the 1914-17 world war. The US and its principale allies, imperial Germany and Austria Hungary, had defeated the Entente powers of Britain, France, and the Confederacy. Some territory changed hands and the new state was the result. The Confederates don’t take this lying down, to say the least, and Lubbock is infested with Confederate agitators, sympathizers, and terrorists.
Somebody must have annoyed Turtledove when he was here doing research, because Lubbock really gets pounded in his version of history. General MacArthur uses canister shot from tank guns to disperse a rioting mob of pro-Confederate Lubbockites during one uprising, while the Army Air Corps firebombs the downtown district during another. Turtledove’s research is exquisitely accurate and detailed btw, from the architecture of the train station right down to the (still used) brick pavement on Broadway being new in 1921.

84 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 2:48:23pm

Has anyone noticed the Georgia flag designs until 2001 and two years afterwards?

If I was a decendant of slaves and had that flag waving in my state, I would not be happy. The Stars N’ Bars should have been folded away in 1865 and never seen again except in a history museum.

85 YellowDog  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 3:13:15pm

Taxes and tariffs—the evil federal government took away southern liberty so that it could continue to tax (and spend?). This is nothing more than the Lost Cause strained through a tea bag. And did you catch the last lines, about “others” and the celebration of their heritage? That was a not-so-subtle reference to the confederate history month flapdoodle—they have a month, why can’t we have one?

86 nines09  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 4:54:00pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist
I know. Dropping lines as “Just like our Founding Fathers” is another one. “Celebrate this noble time in our history” is priceless. I never read anywhere, even a history book, oh voice of first grade teacher, that it was an attempt to “take over” the United States. Lincoln bad, Jefferson good. Sounds like Glenn Beck material. Like I said, it’s a freaking acid trip, with dog whistles ringing.

87 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Oct 16, 2010 6:08:17pm

I knew that guy Lincoln was a bad dude, never trust anyone with a beard…uhh…except me that is…

/Hmm, maybe I still need to refine this premise a little bit, I’ll get back to you later… ;)

88 swisslizard  Mon, Oct 18, 2010 1:58:00am

What’s incredible about this, is that secessionism could be happening in an intellectual and democratic context. Ask what Slovenians think about the end of Yougoslavia or why the Swiss are’nt entering the European Union, or what half of the world thinks about the end of colonialism. The fact of the matter is that balkanization can happen successfully and peacefully, especially when the balkanized part of a state possesses such a specific economy as the South did before the war. But if these wackjobs are the only ones who stand up for such a discussion, it is never going to take place in a peaceful and democratic context, just more hate mongering and revisionism.
The biggest irony is that secionnism would be best supported in an academic context by what they hate the most, a leftwing Northern intellectual: Howard Zinn.


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